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Welcome to the Bitcoin Boomers podcast. This is the inaugural version and we have my friend and maybe one of the most mysterious, interesting people I've ever met, George Bodine as our guest today.

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So we've got Gary Leland and Larry Lapard also joining us.

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And for those of you who are not familiar with George, George is kind of, remember that commercial with the most interesting man in the world?

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Well, this is the real life version of that. A former fighter pilot, Top Gun graduate, a man who lost a plane once, fabulous artist.

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and more importantly for today's conversation,

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a real ardent true blue Bitcoiner

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or true orange Bitcoiner, probably.

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So welcome, George.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, I am a hardcore Bitcoin maxi.

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I'm cast in steel

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and I've got balls the size of watermelons.

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That's making it hard to drive your car.

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I'll tell you right now,

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a stick shift's a bitch.

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But I, yeah, you know,

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it sounds like I was trying to be the most interesting man,

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but obviously there's more to that story. I just,

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lots of times when you're young,

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you don't know what the hell you want to do in life. And I ended up, I mean,

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I did everything working underground, working in the oil fields,

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all kinds of crap. You know, the thing that I learned from that,

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if I took that lesson from all those years, all that hard work I did,

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I mean, when I was working underground, I'd put in 60, 60,

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70 hours underground working down in a mine as deep as a mile down in the oil

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fields. One time I put in a hundred and I think it was like 105 or 108 hours in a one week work

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week. And you know what? No matter how hard I worked, if I saved every damn dime that I made

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in those periods back in the 70s and 80s, looking today, if I weren't an ardent Bitcoin hardcore

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maxi, then basically everything I had saved would have been robbed by the time I was sitting here

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talking to you guys. So, you know, Bitcoin is the life wrap. It is the escape hatch. It is the

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savior to your generating wealth that you can carry on in time. Time is stretched out for me now. I

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don't worry about jack shit. I really don't care what the hell is going on. The only thing I worry

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about are my kids, grandkids. I do worry about fellow Bitcoiners. I think some Bitcoiners are

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going to get royally screwed going forward, but that's a separate subject. So yeah, Bitcoin's

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given me a lot and I am a hardcore maxi. You know what I love George is uh and I I not it not to the

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level you did but you know my first job out of uh actually during college to earn money in college

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I worked in a steel mill and yeah um you know when you go do that kind of work I think everybody

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should at some point in their life do that kind of work that it could be for a year or you know

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something like that. But I think go get your hands dirty, play with heavy equipment,

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sweat your balls off, like do that sort of thing. I think it's because, you know, Bitcoin is about

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proof of work. And I think you don't really appreciate work if you're a if you're a desk

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jockey, you're just kind of sitting there, you know, but but I'm sure that learned. There was a

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lot of life lessons in that, you know, same thing in the military. You know, that's kind of a

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different take on the same thing. Yep. Well put, Bob. I couldn't agree more. Dig some dishes,

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get dirty, understand the value of money. But more importantly, even if you've never worked

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in a job like that, if you just understand the concept of what money is and what fiat money is,

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if you just understand that you cannot outrun these pricks, no matter how hard you save,

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no matter how hard you work, you can put those hundred hours in and the oil field save half your

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salary again today i mean you couldn't outrun them and you could not be guaranteed that it go

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in the next 10 years you're not going to see everything that you've saved be devalued and

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debased and i think that's one of the reasons why gold's ripping hey larry how you doing i'm good

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thanks nice to be back as you guys know i've had some technical difficulties here hey it's nice to

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hear you know larry you're you're i mean i think larry's whole book uh the big print which uh

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everybody should read chronicles that especially the first part of the book you know through the

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lens of his life and I think one of the things like happened to me too a short short story was

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my my grandfather I think had an eighth grade education um when I was uh when I was a young boy

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was the oldest grandchild and he would he would ask me to come over on weekends and you know help

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me sweep the garage out wash the car you know whatever and always flip me a couple dollars

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at the end, you know, and he would say to me, I want you to save this because you're going to be

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the first person from our family to go to college. And so I did. And I had, I used to have one of

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those savings books. I'm sure you guys used to have a savings book too, you know, and go there

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and you'd see that you made 4% or 6% or whatever, you know, the number was, and it would be exciting.

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but I realized years later that because I had done that with the money I had actually not kept

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up with inflation and by the time I used it when I was in college 10 12 15 years later

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a whole bunch of what in reality was my grandfather's sweat and blood had been robbed

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and you know it's funny too because I also remember in 1971 I would have been seven then

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that when we went off the gold standard,

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he cussed up a storm about Nixon and that whole thing.

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It's one of my earliest, most vivid memories.

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And now it kind of comes full circle.

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And he was a smart man.

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He had it figured out even back then

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as a guy with a limited education.

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I've done almost the same thing for my grandkids, Bob.

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I bought cold car cues for all four of them.

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And now they only get presents as Bitcoin

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and they can't touch it till they're 31.

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They know that ahead of time.

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All right.

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And so, and it was kind of interesting.

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We gave my oldest grandson,

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who's like in sixth grade, I think,

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$5 and a card for, I don't know what it was for.

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We'd given him a present

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and Kathy threw five bucks and a card

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and we went to see him and he opened his card.

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He said, well, thanks grandma and granddad.

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And he goes, granddad,

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can you buy some Bitcoin with us?

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And handed me the $5.

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So I felt pretty good about that.

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I mean, you know, absolutely.

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That's awesome.

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I'll tell you, that's a great story, because, again, it's all relating back to what we're discussing right now.

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And in fact, you know, Larry, it'd be good if you weighed in since you just got here.

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I would love to hear your take on what I was saying, which is that basically you can't outrun these people.

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I mean, it's impossible to outrun the printer.

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And I think we're seeing that now, don't you think?

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I really do.

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And yeah, so the, you know, the, it's interesting to me because I'm writing my quarterly report for the third quarter ended September 30th.

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And as I write it, you know, I study kind of what happened during the quarter and what's really appears to be going on now.

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And I, we, I don't think we've ever really seen anything like this in our lifetime is that the entire world is waking up to what we've known for some time.

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And that is that fiat is doomed.

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And, you know, we were a very vocal but small minority, and we've had a lot of setbacks for the past 20 years, but we kept the faith and, you know, built momentum over time.

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And, you know, you've now got J.P. Morgan and Mohamed El-Ariane and all kinds of other elites out there saying, you know, there's a monetary debasement trade that's taking place.

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And it's kind of like, yeah, no shit.

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Welcome to the club, guys.

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Some of us even wrote books about it.

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And the price behavior of gold in the last year has really just been nothing short of stunning.

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I think it's almost the best year ever.

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It might surpass it soon.

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The only other time when there was a better year was the climax that occurred in 79, 1980 before Volcker.

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Gold in the 70s, as most of you know, went from $35 an ounce to $800 an ounce over the decade of the 70s.

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It was 22x.

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And the 35 was suppressed.

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I mean, that was artificially low because it was actually trading it higher than that in private transactions.

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But, you know, so what happened is that people lost more and more faith in fiat currency during that time frame as well because of what you described, Bob.

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You know, your grandfather being pissed off.

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I know mine was, too, about what Nixon did.

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Everybody knew it was a crime to go off the gold standard, but they did it anyway.

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Of course, he said it was going to be temporary, which is like, you know, so many other politicians.

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You know, I mean, we know politicians are lying when their lips are moving, right?

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And so, you know, so you've got gold up, you know, more than any other year other than that 79, 80 period.

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And who knows, it could surpass that.

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because I think what's going on is the world is becoming aware of the issue,

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which is that they can never stop printing money.

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Mathematically, they have to keep printing money because a credit-based system,

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a Keynesian-modeled credit-based system,

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requires ever-increasing amounts of money printing to keep the system from collapsing.

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The alternative is massive deflation.

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They had that in the 20s and 29 to 30-something,

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and so Ben Bernanke vowed to never let that happen again.

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And he had a technology called a printing press and he intended to use it in the same way that Neil Kashkari has said, you know, there's an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve, which I find hilarious.

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And so, you know, this is how Gresham's law kicks in.

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This is how hyperinflations occur.

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I'm not hyperinflation is not my base case.

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It's a tail case, but it's it is it's a possible.

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I actually think we're going to more likely have just a very high rate of inflation, varying high rates of inflation between, you know, three and 20 percent over the next five to 10 years.

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And and of course, if you're holding bonds or dollars without any kind of protection, you know, you're going to you're going to see all your savings stolen from you, basically, by the government.

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So that's what gold is signaling to me.

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And I have to say, even I am surprised by how relentless the bid for this stuff has been.

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But, you know, it again goes to the size of the relative markets.

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I mean, you know, there's $900 trillion of fiat related assets.

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If you include real estate, maybe $450 if you don't.

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And, you know, the entire gold market now is, I don't know, $25, maybe it might be up to $30 trillion.

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I've done the math with these new higher numbers.

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But the point is, it's quite small. And so, you know, if some of that 450 of financial assets that aren't necessarily inflation protected wants the financial assets that are, you know, they only really have two choices, gold and Bitcoin.

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And, of course, Bitcoin is even smaller, right?

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Bitcoin's, you know, only $2 trillion of total market cap, probably less than that because some coins have been lost.

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And so effectively, you know, Bitcoin is going to steal share from gold and they're both going to steal share from all these other fiat financial instruments.

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And to me, it's really just begun.

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And as a fund manager, it creates kind of an interesting problem because it's not very often I look at a lot of stocks and they're up 100 to 300 percent.

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I don't want to sell them.

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But that's because, you know, it's I mean, nobody and I say this in my letter.

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I mean, this is a sovereign debt crisis and nobody alive has seen one because the last one occurred after World War One, you know, when Germany and Poland and a lot of other countries hyperinflated.

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France had high inflation. You know, Britain abandoned the gold standard.

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And and, you know, we had 100 percent inflation in the United States.

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It's the last and largest bout of inflation.

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We've had really a bunch of inflations in the U.S.

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The Civil War was one.

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World War I was another.

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And then the 70s was another.

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Well, actually, post-World War II with financial repression was another.

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And then the 70s was the biggest one prior to this.

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And, you know, we're in it.

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And these cycles don't end.

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They don't end.

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You know, it's not as though they're going to be able to put all this back in the can and everything's going to be fine.

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And, you know, I'm now finding myself thinking, OK, where's gold going?

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I mean, obviously, I didn't think it would make $4,000 this year.

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It has, you know, $5,000, $10,000.

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I mean, and there's a lot in my letter about that as well.

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I mean, if we were actually to go back and remark gold, if we had 100% gold coverage of all the fiat currency that's been created,

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very similar to the way we were back in the 70s or in the 60s before we got on this big inflationary game,

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to make the math work, to cover every dollar outstanding with an ounce of gold,

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gold would have to be over $90,000 an ounce.

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And it's at $4,000 right now.

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That's how much fiat currency we've created.

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Now, I'm not suggesting that's where we're going.

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I'm not suggesting we could return to a gold standard without 100% coverage.

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There have been a number of successful gold standards have been run with 20% to 40% coverage.

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But, you know, at some point, as my book talks about,

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you know inflation is going to become the biggest problem in this country and um we either let it

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continue to build in which case we're all the way to full weimar hyperinflation or hopefully you know

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we'll have some politicians who are smart enough to realize that the problem is the unsound money

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and we'll do a one-time reset uh and return the dollar to either being backed by gold or bitcoin

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or some combination of the two um so larry would that have to be voted in by congress to do that

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Yeah, that's a great question, Gary. And so let's talk about that. Right. So if you read the Constitution, you know, Article one, Section eight, originally Congress had control of money, monetary fares, and they specified only gold and silver could be money.

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Of course, you know, quickly with the Constitution has become kind of a dead letter in so many different respects.

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But and, you know, not there not long after the drafting of the Constitution, you know, they and they were on the gold standard.

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They immediately kind of broke the gold standard by letting the banks suspend specie payments, which means that you couldn't.

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And when you're on the gold standard, in theory, if you have a dollar tied to gold, you know, or twenty dollars tied to my grandfather could take twenty dollars down to the bank in 1915, give it to them.

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and they'd give him a one ounce gold coin.

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Or he could take a one ounce gold coin down there and they'd give him 20 bucks.

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So that's a real gold standard.

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That's gold exchangeability.

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You know, the dollar will buy you gold, gold will buy you the dollar.

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But throughout history, that got broken.

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It got broken in the War of 1812.

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It got broken in 1865 when we printed greenbacks.

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You know, it kind of effectively got broken after the Fed was created.

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You know, Roosevelt broke it again in the 30s when he confiscated the gold.

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And then really only international people could own gold.

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So, you know, Americans were banned from holding gold post 1933, unless it was a collectible.

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Of course, many people did.

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And it wasn't until 74 when Jim Blanchard, you know, flew a plane over the Ford inauguration and got the gold standard, made it legal again for Americans to own gold.

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But that's anyway, the long story short, also, Gary, on that point is that notice in 65, 1865, you know, Lincoln and his Treasury Secretary Seward established greenbacks.

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They just did it without asking Congress. And it got tested. But, you know, the Supreme Court held it up as legal.

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In 1913, the Federal Reserve, that actually got approved by Congress. So they ran that one through the system.

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But in 33, Roosevelt just said, you know what, we're grabbing all the gold and we're going to revalue it.

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So he did it without any congressional approval. And in 71, Nixon did it without any congressional approval.

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So there's a long precedent of executive action to even though in theory the money ought to be controlled by Congress,

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there's a precedent of executive action to take control of the monetary system.

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So, you know, and you've heard you've heard Treasury Secretary Bessent say, you know, we need another Bretton Woods and I want to be there when it happens.

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So, you know, it's clearly been thought about and talked about.

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I mean, Bessent gets it. Moran gets it. Trump gets it.

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Well, I was saying Congress would never get that accomplished.

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No, you're right. There's that. And but they all get it.

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And, you know, I think they understand how pressing an issue it is.

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And it would be incredibly bold move.

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But, you know, he breaks a lot of glass.

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I mean, he might do it.

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And particularly if we have runaway inflation at the time and people, everyone's screaming about it.

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So we'll just have to see.

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I mean, it's, you know, it's my book.

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I mean, I wrote a speech that the president could give in my book.

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You know, and there's a way to do this without hurting too many people.

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I mean, it's impossible to do it without some people getting hurt.

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Bondholders are going to get hurt, full stop.

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No way to prevent that.

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You know, the money is not money good, so to speak.

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But, you know, once we reset, we have a very bright future.

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So this isn't, you know, four boomers also being doomers.

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This is just us saying, hey, look, we've seen how this shit works.

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We've studied history.

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We know the issues.

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You can't ignore them.

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You got to solve them.

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And then once you do, things will be good again.

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Because if we return to a sound money standard, things will recover very quickly.

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There have been a lot of countries that have had hyperinflations that have actually, once they're over and they return to sound money, they actually get better fast.

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And so we could be that country.

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But sadly, you know, to get us to the point where an executive takes, you know, a president takes that action, I don't think he could do it today.

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I don't think he has the support.

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I don't think people realize the problem is big enough, et cetera.

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I think we're going to have to go much further down the inflation road where everybody is hurting even more than they are today, sadly, before we get political action to fix it.

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There's a little rabbit hole that might be interesting here, and that's when you read the Constitution, what you'll see is that the founding fathers were not only trying to separate church and state, but they were trying to separate money from state.

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Yes.

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and I'll read real quickly, you know, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5. It says,

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Congress shall have the power to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin,

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and to fix the standard of weights and measures. So now you have to read that in the context of

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the time. And if you read the context of the time, and I've done this, by the way, if you go back

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to a dictionary from that period of time. The word to coin does not mean to create money.

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It means to authenticate money. So the role of the government was to say, yes, this particular coin

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has been stamped, coined as authentic. It doesn't mean to create it. And unfortunately,

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we've let this thing, there's a whole history behind that in Supreme Court cases that I think

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were rigged to change that interpretation to give this power to the government. But the forefathers,

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in my opinion, were very clear that they should not be in charge of money, you know, that the

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government should not be in charge of money. They also said that only gold and silver coin could be,

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could be tendered.

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Why wouldn't anyone, when

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they took us off the gold standard, why wouldn't

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anyone sue

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or take that to the Supreme Court or whatever?

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Oh, they did. In the Constitution, it has

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to. And Nixon says, no, you don't

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have to. I know better.

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And then... Oh, they did. Every one

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of these monetary missteps was

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challenged, Gary, along the way.

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I mean, there were sound money people fighting back.

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You know, some of them were killed

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like Garfield and others. But

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you know, every one of these steps was challenged and the politics of the day and the politics of

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the court. I mean, just like today's court is political. All those other courts were political

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as well. And, you know, this I mean, it was it goes back to the necessary and proper clause.

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Right. I mean, that's the one that's they've used that they've driven a truck through that one.

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You know, it's well, we got to do it to keep the system going. It's necessary and proper,

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even though it's clearly in direct violation of what's written in the Constitution.

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So, you know, it's a sad feature of the system as we now have it.

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I mean, hopefully, if and when we get to this reset point, you know, we could tighten up some of the language on some of these things.

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Well, it sounds like they could do anything with that clause.

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Well, you got that right.

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Lawyers will tell you that's correct.

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And they have.

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I mean, you know, it's not just in the money.

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It's a lot of other areas where they've overstepped.

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You know, it's funny, Bob, you you pointed out you talked about your grandfather in 1971 while he was watching Nixon.

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And you know I I a little bit older than you and I actually do remember that speech And the funny thing is whenever I think about it I always think of it as in black and white Although I sure like Gary mentioned off air I probably had a color television by then

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But nonetheless, I, you know, talking about the fact that, you know, whether that was legal or whether it was challenged,

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I remember very specifically that Nixon at the time and in the speech, my my take as a young man was that we were being attacked,

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that this was almost a national defense issue.

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He even framed it as speculators outside the system

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that were attacking the U.S. dollar.

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So surprisingly enough, there were people that felt aligned with this narrative.

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Of course, what happened afterwards, and I mean, I lived through that period,

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is within the next 10 years, my world went to shit.

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And I was a young man, I was working.

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And I mean, when I say went to shit, I mean, my life really changed significantly from 1971 on.

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And if you look at charts, if you just look at the wealth disparity that we see in this country right now, you trace it back.

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Often 1971 is the defining pivotal point for many of the charts that all of us follow to try and maintain some idea of where America is as a nation.

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And it definitely was a defining moment. And I wish I'd been more aware at that time, as many people, just what a screw job this was going to be for the American people.

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I think that's interesting. I had kind of forgotten, George, I'm glad you brought it up, that in Nixon's speech, he kind of called on patriotism.

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And I think if you look at the Patriot Act as another example, this massive invasion of privacy and government overreach, it's almost as though when politicians start to call on patriotism, it's when you should become very, very suspicious.

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Trying to prey on your loyalty to make you disloyal or unpatriotic if you oppose it is quite a trick.

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Yeah, we've seen that repeatedly. And I mean, as being a former military member, I wrapped myself in a flag many a time and I followed blindly many times the guidelines and the mantras of both the government and even social movements.

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And, you know, looking back in the past, you know, I'm I'm almost embarrassed by how gullible I was regarding some of those narratives.

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I feel the same exact way. I agree with you 100 percent.

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Yeah. You know, Gary, and you mentioned, you know, in fact, you just touched on it too, Bob.

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You know, we are at the cusp of a revolution. I mean, we are going to see over the next three to

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five years an incredible revolution. Gary was talking about how he follows AI and is interested

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in what's going on in the field. I'm doing the same thing. I just, you know, people are blowing

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smoke up our ass right now when they say that AI is not going to impact jobs going forward.

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You know, you look at me right now, anything that's between this headset, between my ears, any cognitive function that's going on that relies on analytics, forecasts, algorithmic determination, all of that is going to be at risk for replacement by AI.

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And soon. Right now, we're about one to two years from general AI.

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Within three to five years, we're going to have super intelligence.

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And that is going to be a game changer.

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You mentioned earlier off air, I think, too, Bob, talking about insurance contracts.

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You know, the insurance industry hasn't seen anything yet.

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They don't know what's coming.

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And but but getting back to what, you know, Gary and he might want to touch on this, too.

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You know, I feel like we've got about a three to five year window and then our world is going to change so significantly.

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And it is going to be built around both AI and digital money.

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But in particular, AI is going to become, at least if you look at the vision of Peter Thiel and Palantir, or if you look at the vision of Sam Altman and World Vision, it's going to be a world that could become a velvet prison very quickly for us.

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And I think of Bitcoin as the escape valve to that.

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So I'd be kind of curious, since you're following AI, Gary, what do you think about that yourself?

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Well, most of my following on AI is studying how it's going to help health, you know, because I'm 70.

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So, you know, when you start getting older, you start getting concerned, you want to live.

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And now that Bitcoin is coming along and I'm in the position I am and I'm enjoying life as much as I am, I really want to live a long time.

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But I think that AI is going to affect jobs, for instance.

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I think we're going to start lose like over the next three to four years, probably 1% of the jobs every year.

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But then I think holy hell happens.

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And then all of a sudden we're losing 5%.

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I mean, holy hell's happened.

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And are they going to have to come up with this minimum payment to people so they don't burn down the country?

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I mean, what are we going to do?

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This is going to go nuts and it's going to go nuts quickly.

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And people are not prepared for this.

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Yeah, there's, you know, AI.

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I spend a lot of time on AI now as well.

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And I think there are two fundamental problems.

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By the way, there's massive opportunity too.

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But, you know, the two fundamental problems are society will transition, jobs will obsolete

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at rates that have never been seen before.

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And that will create discord.

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You know, Marx kind of wrote his whole premise or a lot of his premise about how capitalism

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creates and technology creates these disruptions and the displacement. And the other side of it is

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what's called containment, which is how do you keep AI from taking over? Which is, it's a long

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topic, a whole different thing, but a very scary one as well. But to kind of keep it on our topic,

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Like, George, I think in parallel with that, if we have a fiat system controlled by a small group of men and or AI, we have a huge problem.

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If we have Bitcoin and sound money, we have a chance because those things, regardless of how much intelligence sits on the other side, can't be disrupted, can't be abused.

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And so there's, I think when the Bitcoin thing started in 2009, this wasn't part of the vision, but I think it's become an important thing to justify and even fight harder for Bitcoin. Like it's our hope against this thing.

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I'd say it's the single most important thing that we can fight for right now, because what you just said is is my vision, which is a dystopian digital world built on A.I. and surveillance that is coming to us or to a theater near you and that the escape valve is Bitcoin.

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It's got to be digital money. Now, you know, I think that Larry, he's one of the few people that understand or can somehow mix the two worlds together and stay on track, gold and Bitcoin.

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But let's face it, in this digital world with agentic AI agents acting on their own, we are going to need digital money.

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Bitcoin is so fucking important right now. We cannot let it fail.

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And there are some things going on right now that make me very concerned about Bitcoin.

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I want to see Bitcoin succeed.

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You often say you want to see it succeed for a thousand years.

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Well, I'm with you.

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It is the hope.

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You know, I'd be interested to get Larry's takes on that.

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I mean, the idea of how you balance, how do you somehow bridge that world between gold and Bitcoin?

365
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And, you know, what's going to how is this going to play out?

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Yeah. So I think Bitcoin is going to continue to steal share from gold. I think it's going to massively outperform gold as it has in the past. You know, it's obviously more volatile because it's still in the adoption phase, but that's also why, you know, there's an opportunity.

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And I think ultimately gold will be demonetized just the way silver was demonetized by gold.

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And that's because gold had a better stock to flow ratio than silver.

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And the countries that bet on silver, you know, China and India suffered for that bet,

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whereas, you know, England and the U.S. and others bet on the gold standard and benefited as a result.

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I think the same will be true.

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You know, if the U.S. wanted to strategically be smart and we do do a monetary reset,

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we should reset to Bitcoin, not gold, because gold is analog sound money. It's yesterday's

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sound money and Bitcoin is the future of sound money. But I wanted to talk a little, just jump

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on something that Bob said and you guys all said about the AI thing. And this point's been made by

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many others. This isn't an original thought, but I think it's important to emphasize it.

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The more, you know, the Keynesian, and this is Jeff Booth, who's really the originator of this

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idea. The Keynesian system is built on credit growth, credit expansion. Money is effectively

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debt, and so you need more debt to have more money, and you just got to keep that growth taking place.

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And in reality, the Austrian model shows you that deflation is not a bad thing, it's a good thing,

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and that technology is extremely deflationary, as Bob has known and worked through his entire life on.

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And and and AI just accelerates that.

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And so, you know, if we think about AI eliminating jobs and it no doubt will, we don't know what scale will, you know, all those people whose jobs are eliminated, you know, they have mortgages, they have car loans, they have payments to make.

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And, you know, and they're not going to have incomes now, you know, and we can say, oh, that's all unfair.

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And you can go into the whole Luddite argument of, well, yeah, but AI makes the world more efficient.

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And it does. That's a good thing. But the point is that it conflicts with a credit based system.

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And if we think that AI and productivity enhancement is getting continually sped up, then it's only going to drive the death of fiat to a more rapid death.

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I guess it's going to happen more quickly. So I think it's important to kind of connect those two dots, you know, as we look at it.

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But, you know, gold and Bitcoin, I mean, look, George, back to the reset issue.

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And I know a lot of people want to hear me talk about this.

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I mean, it's China's betting on gold.

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I mean, there's no doubt about that.

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India, you know, they're probably betting on gold.

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I don't think they really get it.

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I think Russia is actually hedging their bet and probably mining Bitcoin.

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And, you know, this is probably a 30 to 40 year fight before gold is gone.

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And it's just jewelry and Bitcoin is money everywhere.

398
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But I think the trend in that time frame, I mean, you know, Bitcoin price in gold is going to go up and to the right forever.

399
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It is because it's sounder and it's also got the technological advantage of being, you know, easier and cheaper to store and move and verify.

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I mean, so you kind of look at all those things and it just wins.

401
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It does.

402
00:33:08,165 --> 00:33:11,105
And it's very hard for a lot of my fellow gold bugs to hear.

403
00:33:11,705 --> 00:33:13,945
And it doesn't mean gold's going away tomorrow.

404
00:33:13,945 --> 00:33:24,645
I mean, in this particular episode of monetary debasement, the one that we're in right now, that's going to, you know, I think is leading to, I think, I think what, by the way, I think what's going on, the gold market smells the big print that's coming.

405
00:33:25,345 --> 00:33:29,025
You know, I mean, Stephen Moran is talking about, you know, dropping rates, 200 basis points.

406
00:33:29,145 --> 00:33:31,305
Trump's talking about dropping 300 basis points.

407
00:33:31,925 --> 00:33:33,045
Think about what that would do.

408
00:33:33,185 --> 00:33:36,425
You know, if mortgage rates came down three or 4%, the housing market would boom.

409
00:33:37,445 --> 00:33:39,045
Credit growth would explode.

410
00:33:39,785 --> 00:33:42,545
And, you know, and we'd have more massive inflation.

411
00:33:43,945 --> 00:33:46,645
And I think gold is going to protect you against that.

412
00:33:46,745 --> 00:33:48,085
But Bitcoin is going to do even better.

413
00:33:48,485 --> 00:33:51,305
It's going to provide real alpha over and above gold.

414
00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:55,085
Hey, I have another question about AI real quick before we move on.

415
00:33:55,465 --> 00:33:57,365
This is something my wife says all the time.

416
00:33:57,445 --> 00:33:59,685
And I've had several boomers say this to me.

417
00:34:00,145 --> 00:34:02,345
And so I just wanted to cover this real quick.

418
00:34:02,825 --> 00:34:11,745
They seem to, because they're not understanding Bitcoin, seem to have a feeling that AI is going to hack Bitcoin because it's so smart.

419
00:34:12,465 --> 00:34:15,225
Have you had someone say that to you yet, or am I the only one?

420
00:34:15,225 --> 00:34:15,425
I have.

421
00:34:15,525 --> 00:34:18,925
Let me take that one, because I've asked a lot of people about that.

422
00:34:18,985 --> 00:34:27,425
I was just at BTC in D.C., where I actually had a good sit-down with Presta Pisch, who is an engineer and who spent a lot of time digging really deep into this.

423
00:34:27,905 --> 00:34:35,025
And there's some measure of how well quantum computers are performing, and he described to me just how complicated the whole thing was.

424
00:34:35,225 --> 00:34:39,285
And, you know, I mean, I'm not even sure what this measure is.

425
00:34:39,365 --> 00:34:41,065
He had a term for it, a technical term.

426
00:34:41,065 --> 00:34:52,465
Bob, maybe you'll know it. But he said that, you know, we would have to be at kind of the 25,000, you know, units per second or units per whatever to have, you know, SHA-256 be it.

427
00:34:52,485 --> 00:34:53,305
Talking about the qubits.

428
00:34:53,805 --> 00:34:54,605
Maybe that was it.

429
00:34:54,785 --> 00:34:57,205
Qubits is what he's discussing.

430
00:34:57,305 --> 00:35:03,205
And he said recently they were bragging or they thought maybe they'd gone from like four to six to eight. Does that sound right, Bob?

431
00:35:04,505 --> 00:35:09,285
I mean, they're talking about some, some have claimed, I think, 130 or something like that.

432
00:35:09,285 --> 00:35:11,785
But not really stable, frankly.

433
00:35:12,205 --> 00:35:20,825
The issue is the issue with qubits and the issue with AI or actually now we've drifted over to the idea that quantum computing.

434
00:35:21,105 --> 00:35:24,285
The problem is that you have to have millions of those qubits.

435
00:35:24,405 --> 00:35:28,445
And not only do you have to have millions of qubits, you have to have them in something called cohesion.

436
00:35:28,945 --> 00:35:30,325
That's difficult to achieve.

437
00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:35,745
And, you know, I'm not saying that AI isn't going to, you know, to Gary's point.

438
00:35:35,805 --> 00:35:37,025
I think it's a valid point.

439
00:35:37,025 --> 00:35:43,425
And I'm sure, Gary, that, you know, it's a difficult question to answer because how do you talk about a future that we can't really see?

440
00:35:43,505 --> 00:35:46,145
And especially if AI is involved in crafting that future.

441
00:35:46,305 --> 00:35:49,725
Well, I just say that they're going to go after the banking system first.

442
00:35:49,785 --> 00:35:50,705
Well, that's exactly right.

443
00:35:50,705 --> 00:35:56,445
Well, they will. They will. And, you know, I can say it's a long, long rabbit hole.

444
00:35:56,865 --> 00:36:03,025
There is a there is a group that I've been on the outskirts, ancillary.

445
00:36:03,165 --> 00:36:06,745
I've been I've interfaced with them as a group with something called BIP 360.

446
00:36:07,025 --> 00:36:14,245
which is a group looking to create quantum resistance for Bitcoin.

447
00:36:16,305 --> 00:36:20,205
And there are a whole bunch of implications though

448
00:36:20,205 --> 00:36:24,785
about what you do with money supply and property rights.

449
00:36:24,925 --> 00:36:27,965
And it's actually not that difficult to solve technically,

450
00:36:27,965 --> 00:36:36,045
but we have to sort out some issues like do we lock up Satoshi's coins?

451
00:36:36,045 --> 00:36:42,165
A simple version is like, do we violate Satoshi's property rights and lock them up?

452
00:36:42,405 --> 00:36:47,725
Because we can't make them quantum resistant without doing something.

453
00:36:48,385 --> 00:36:51,045
So it's a very messy thing.

454
00:36:51,605 --> 00:36:53,905
I don't lose any sleep about it.

455
00:36:54,165 --> 00:36:56,465
There's plenty of people that are thinking about it.

456
00:36:57,545 --> 00:37:01,645
Bitcoin will have a solution well ahead of the threat.

457
00:37:02,465 --> 00:37:03,465
And we need to be.

458
00:37:03,465 --> 00:37:20,945
And my recommendation is, you know, as a community that we solve the problem, you know, five to ten years in front of when we actually face it, because there is a possibility that somebody makes an advance well ahead of it.

459
00:37:21,165 --> 00:37:23,385
But, and I don't.

460
00:37:23,805 --> 00:37:29,045
Bob, could Satoshi's coins be put back on the blockchain, extending the time period for mining?

461
00:37:30,665 --> 00:37:32,365
Yes, that's one of the proposals.

462
00:37:32,365 --> 00:37:39,745
I'm not in favor of that one, but that is one of – here's the options just real quickly.

463
00:37:40,005 --> 00:37:48,265
We can leave them where they are and just say, hey, Satoshi, if you're out there or whoever has the keys, you better move them.

464
00:37:48,845 --> 00:37:50,565
That's option one.

465
00:37:51,165 --> 00:37:56,445
Option two is we move them for him or make them unspendable.

466
00:37:57,845 --> 00:37:59,105
That's another one.

467
00:37:59,105 --> 00:38:15,865
We could reissue them by changing the subsidy and extending that past 2140 or increase the rate over the next 100 years.

468
00:38:15,865 --> 00:38:25,985
or we could create it so that blocks only allow a small number of, let's say, even one.

469
00:38:25,985 --> 00:38:31,685
Like each block could only move one of those coins per block.

470
00:38:31,865 --> 00:38:35,445
So it would slow down the rate at which they could be attacked.

471
00:38:35,605 --> 00:38:39,925
So as we sit here today, those are the ideas on the table.

472
00:38:41,145 --> 00:38:42,705
I didn't even know it was being discussed.

473
00:38:43,125 --> 00:38:44,245
So thanks for bringing that up.

474
00:38:44,245 --> 00:39:00,885
Yeah, there's several people. Like I said, I'm involved in the group. I've been in a handful of meetings. I'm talking to on a regular basis behind the scenes with one of the key developers. And, you know, it's like I said, interestingly, it's not really a huge technical issue.

475
00:39:01,665 --> 00:39:03,645
Although I will say one other thing.

476
00:39:03,825 --> 00:39:07,405
We'll probably save it for another deeper dive on a different show.

477
00:39:08,025 --> 00:39:15,345
But quantum-resistant addresses are much bigger than the addresses we have today.

478
00:39:15,345 --> 00:39:20,785
So the script and the – and so what it means is that block space will get even tighter.

479
00:39:21,045 --> 00:39:28,265
So as soon as we move to it, it effectively means we have maybe a half to a quarter of the block space that we currently have.

480
00:39:28,265 --> 00:39:34,225
When we go to quantum resistant addresses, to do that, do you have a hard fork?

481
00:39:35,205 --> 00:39:36,625
Or can you do it as a software?

482
00:39:36,625 --> 00:39:39,045
You don't have to have a hard fork.

483
00:39:39,125 --> 00:39:39,405
Okay.

484
00:39:42,305 --> 00:39:50,705
You don't have to have a hard fork if what you just said was, you're not going to do anything with Satoshi's coins.

485
00:39:52,205 --> 00:39:53,305
You're going to leave them be.

486
00:39:54,365 --> 00:39:57,905
Probably if you said I had to make a decision today, that would be my recommendation.

487
00:39:58,265 --> 00:39:58,485
Right.

488
00:39:58,865 --> 00:40:00,245
Just let him be there.

489
00:40:00,245 --> 00:40:10,045
And if he's out there and wants to move him, we'll give him two years warning, something like that, like move him before this date or this block height.

490
00:40:11,025 --> 00:40:13,485
But it's a very tricky issue.

491
00:40:14,865 --> 00:40:22,565
But I don't think I'm in favor of reissuing them because I think that essentially is fucking with the $21 million.

492
00:40:22,565 --> 00:40:23,825
What would the rest of us do, though, Bob?

493
00:40:23,845 --> 00:40:27,685
Would we just have to move our coins to a new quantum-resistant address?

494
00:40:27,685 --> 00:40:28,865
Is that how we would do it?

495
00:40:29,845 --> 00:40:31,065
In simple terms, yes.

496
00:40:31,245 --> 00:40:31,465
Yeah.

497
00:40:31,765 --> 00:40:31,965
Yeah.

498
00:40:32,205 --> 00:40:35,225
And it may be that they're safe already, depending on what you have.

499
00:40:35,305 --> 00:40:36,545
They may already be safe.

500
00:40:37,045 --> 00:40:39,965
So the addresses wouldn't just automatically convert.

501
00:40:40,085 --> 00:40:41,465
You'd actually have to do some work.

502
00:40:41,545 --> 00:40:43,125
No, you'd have to take an action.

503
00:40:43,625 --> 00:40:46,805
Then there'd be a lot of questions that were left on the old system.

504
00:40:46,865 --> 00:40:50,525
And, Bob, based on your understanding of where we are in the quantum development cycle

505
00:40:50,525 --> 00:40:54,065
and what they're trying to do and the stability and all this qubit stuff,

506
00:40:54,685 --> 00:40:57,485
how long before this really becomes a serious issue?

507
00:40:57,485 --> 00:40:59,025
How many years are we talking?

508
00:41:00,825 --> 00:41:09,705
I think as a community, we should have a solution in the five to seven year time frame and decide what we're going to do.

509
00:41:10,805 --> 00:41:16,145
If I was betting, I would bet I'll be dead before the problem actually occurs.

510
00:41:16,865 --> 00:41:21,245
I want to weigh in on this because this is something that I'm following.

511
00:41:21,585 --> 00:41:25,505
And I think that your time frame of five to seven years is spot on.

512
00:41:25,505 --> 00:41:27,985
that's exactly what I'm thinking

513
00:41:27,985 --> 00:41:29,825
is that we need to have something in place

514
00:41:29,825 --> 00:41:30,965
within that time period

515
00:41:30,965 --> 00:41:33,445
and the second thing I'm going to mention is

516
00:41:33,445 --> 00:41:36,625
I really strongly agree

517
00:41:36,625 --> 00:41:38,845
with what you said regarding Satoshi's coins

518
00:41:38,845 --> 00:41:41,545
if we start going in there

519
00:41:41,545 --> 00:41:44,445
and dicking around with the network

520
00:41:44,445 --> 00:41:47,345
and actually dicking around with the protocol

521
00:41:47,345 --> 00:41:49,345
not the software implementation

522
00:41:49,345 --> 00:41:51,805
if we move away from either a policy change

523
00:41:51,805 --> 00:41:54,545
or a software, an upgrade

524
00:41:54,545 --> 00:41:57,805
then that's a really big deal.

525
00:41:58,105 --> 00:42:01,425
And I don't think that you're going to find consensus to Gary's question.

526
00:42:01,905 --> 00:42:05,165
I don't think you're going to find consensus within the community to do that anymore.

527
00:42:06,125 --> 00:42:12,305
And as far as Satoshi's coins in the past, you know, if you've lost your coins,

528
00:42:12,605 --> 00:42:17,545
if you have made tremendous headwork errors, you have lost those coins.

529
00:42:17,545 --> 00:42:25,625
And, you know, for me personally, just having studied this, for me, I'm aligned in that direction.

530
00:42:26,005 --> 00:42:32,445
And I, you know, I hope that more people within the community will start taking the time, even if it's just to say, you know, George, you're full of shit.

531
00:42:32,765 --> 00:42:37,725
I still hope that people will start looking at this because it is an issue at some point going forward.

532
00:42:38,285 --> 00:42:44,765
And, you know, basically having looked at quantum computing, you know, it's that what is that story?

533
00:42:44,765 --> 00:42:54,365
It's the greatest invention that you'll see in the next five years, and they've been saying it for the last half a decade or for half a century.

534
00:42:54,705 --> 00:42:58,865
So basically, I think it's a long ways off, but we have to be prepared.

535
00:42:59,505 --> 00:43:05,185
George, speaking of consensus that you're doing, that kind of makes me think of core versus knots.

536
00:43:05,705 --> 00:43:06,485
Oh, fuck.

537
00:43:06,945 --> 00:43:11,565
And I am not a person that's an expert on this, but I know that that's all I hear.

538
00:43:11,565 --> 00:43:15,145
Are you just trying to launch Jethro?

539
00:43:15,465 --> 00:43:16,825
Launch the alert Jethro?

540
00:43:17,665 --> 00:43:19,605
Well, like I said, I see it all the time.

541
00:43:19,745 --> 00:43:23,025
And I'm not like a super technical guy.

542
00:43:23,305 --> 00:43:26,265
So it took me a while to even figure out what in the hell was going on.

543
00:43:26,705 --> 00:43:36,490
So one of my biggest complaints right now about this discussion and about CORE in particular of all the things I going to say about CORE that are negative this is one of the biggest issues

544
00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:41,370
These dipshits have created so much ill will within this community.

545
00:43:41,810 --> 00:43:44,850
They have caused so much division within this community.

546
00:43:45,230 --> 00:43:48,610
They have burned bridges behind them permanently.

547
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:51,250
You know, you're looking right now, you're staring at your screen,

548
00:43:51,310 --> 00:43:53,510
you're looking at somebody that's giving money to these people.

549
00:43:53,970 --> 00:43:56,490
They'll never get another dime from me as long as I live.

550
00:43:57,430 --> 00:44:02,510
So people like me, you remember what we said at the beginning of the show, a hardcore Bitcoin

551
00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:06,370
maxi cast in steel with balls the size of watermelons.

552
00:44:06,490 --> 00:44:08,490
You're never going to get another dime from me, people.

553
00:44:08,750 --> 00:44:13,570
But more importantly, they have burned so many bridges here that this discussion we're

554
00:44:13,570 --> 00:44:14,970
having is really important.

555
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:18,610
And, you know, there are other things that are really important.

556
00:44:18,610 --> 00:44:29,810
Covenant, CTV, all kinds of things that we need to discuss regarding core developers and implementations, not just policy change, but kind of like what Bob's discussing.

557
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:39,510
This could be a like a soft fork or just an upgrade, a software upgrade of the implementation, the software implementation.

558
00:44:39,830 --> 00:44:44,590
Well, guess what? You're going to have a hard time convincing me that you know what the hell you're doing now.

559
00:44:44,590 --> 00:44:52,770
so and you know they're operating behind a veil basically it is a veil of

560
00:44:52,770 --> 00:44:59,970
obscuration secrecy whatever the fuck you want to call it i'll tell you something if the you guys

561
00:44:59,970 --> 00:45:04,730
when you're done here you want to have a fun little experiment go into your computer and type

562
00:45:04,730 --> 00:45:11,610
into i use ai all the time use uh chat gpt and grok and then type in the same question

563
00:45:11,610 --> 00:45:18,370
what are the five core maintainers names with commit access what are their names what is their

564
00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:23,210
age what is their education don't even do anything hard like how much do they make a year

565
00:45:23,210 --> 00:45:30,650
just see what happens when you come back with your answers so the biggest issue for me right now is

566
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:34,430
the fact that you know these things that we're discussing that are important i think they're

567
00:45:34,430 --> 00:45:41,170
going to get end up being delayed in implementation or that we're going to have a lot of bad will

568
00:45:41,170 --> 00:45:43,770
that we're going to have to overcome to have these conversations.

569
00:45:44,910 --> 00:45:55,990
No, like you, George, I have found myself thrust into this battle.

570
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:57,790
I don't know what we call it.

571
00:45:57,870 --> 00:45:59,250
I've actually been using the word schism.

572
00:45:59,550 --> 00:46:02,270
It reminds me a lot of, you know, who's the Pope?

573
00:46:02,590 --> 00:46:04,590
Like the Catholic Church.

574
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:06,470
That's a nice way to put it.

575
00:46:06,490 --> 00:46:07,230
Breaking into it.

576
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:08,810
The word I've been using is the schism.

577
00:46:08,810 --> 00:46:16,370
But I think a lot of times this is portrayed as core versus knots.

578
00:46:16,570 --> 00:46:19,270
And I think what you've just said, George, is right.

579
00:46:19,350 --> 00:46:20,390
I don't view it that way.

580
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:22,170
It is not core versus knots.

581
00:46:22,290 --> 00:46:28,570
This is a rejection of the process and communication style of core.

582
00:46:29,770 --> 00:46:33,050
And, you know, I will say I don't want to violate confidences.

583
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:38,710
I started to get really involved in this going back into the spring period.

584
00:46:39,650 --> 00:46:42,590
And we could see this was starting to happen.

585
00:46:42,730 --> 00:46:43,690
It was starting to ripple.

586
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:51,750
And I, as a guy, those who don't know me, I'm formerly the chief technical officer at Gateway.

587
00:46:52,750 --> 00:46:54,450
I am no longer a coder.

588
00:46:54,750 --> 00:46:55,750
I used to be, though.

589
00:46:55,890 --> 00:46:57,710
I used to have quite a bit of coding skills.

590
00:46:57,710 --> 00:47:04,210
was essentially told that while I was happy,

591
00:47:04,510 --> 00:47:07,930
they were happy to allow me to be on like the dev mailing lists

592
00:47:07,930 --> 00:47:09,890
and those sort of things.

593
00:47:10,030 --> 00:47:12,150
Essentially, my voice didn't matter,

594
00:47:13,050 --> 00:47:15,870
that my opinion didn't matter,

595
00:47:16,530 --> 00:47:20,570
that whether I acknowledged or it's called act or knack,

596
00:47:20,570 --> 00:47:24,270
like when a proposal is coming up, people can act or knack,

597
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:26,430
that mine was irrelevant.

598
00:47:26,430 --> 00:47:43,970
I saw others get muted in the same manner. And instead of being public about it, I kind of went behind the scenes and I tried to reach out. I went to some developer conferences. I offered to take some core devs to lunch.

599
00:47:43,970 --> 00:47:49,790
this goes back even into the early summer period and said hey i'm going to be at this conference

600
00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:57,510
i'll be in the same city as you i'd love to talk with you um was ghosted um went to one of the

601
00:47:57,510 --> 00:48:03,290
heads of the organizations spent three hours with him by the way very uh actually i'll call i'll say

602
00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:08,150
i think he's okay with me saying it michael schmidt who's the head of brink um right he has been very

603
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:13,950
good, by the way. And my hat's off to Michael because he has been open. He and I spent three

604
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:19,470
hours actually in Vegas going through this. And the topic was not whether op return is right or

605
00:48:19,470 --> 00:48:26,550
not or fighting spam or like those sort of things. But how does the process work?

606
00:48:27,530 --> 00:48:34,750
How do we communicate? Who are the stakeholders? Who gets a vote? How do you reach consensus?

607
00:48:34,750 --> 00:48:42,050
and in summary I don't want to dwell too long on it I think what has happened is there has been a

608
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:48,770
failure by core to understand that the community has evolved and it reminds me of my very early

609
00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:55,330
days in the personal computer in the early days of the personal computer when it was a small market

610
00:48:55,330 --> 00:49:02,670
all geeker geeks and hackers and we were developing new products we interfaced with these other people

611
00:49:02,670 --> 00:49:05,870
that had a certain mindset and a certain behavior.

612
00:49:07,230 --> 00:49:10,210
And our actions as product developers

613
00:49:10,210 --> 00:49:12,270
affected only a small group of people.

614
00:49:13,150 --> 00:49:15,810
Well, now we're at a point where we're,

615
00:49:16,270 --> 00:49:17,330
if you look at the S curve

616
00:49:17,330 --> 00:49:19,330
or the adoption curve of technology,

617
00:49:19,330 --> 00:49:22,230
we're kind of on the fringes of the majority.

618
00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:27,090
And we have institutional mindsets.

619
00:49:27,230 --> 00:49:28,830
We have nation state mindsets.

620
00:49:28,930 --> 00:49:30,330
We have corporate mindsets

621
00:49:30,330 --> 00:49:36,730
that don't align necessarily with the philosophical approaches of some of these other folks.

622
00:49:37,010 --> 00:49:39,030
But their opinions are still valid.

623
00:49:39,210 --> 00:49:40,370
Bitcoin is for everybody.

624
00:49:41,310 --> 00:49:48,810
And I have not seen an openness to engage and actively, at a minimum, actively listen.

625
00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:51,690
And that's very frustrating.

626
00:49:51,690 --> 00:49:55,910
And I think probably the number one danger point for Bitcoin as a community.

627
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:59,910
You know, Gary, Gary, look at what the hell you've done.

628
00:50:00,330 --> 00:50:02,750
You got me so pissed off I had to take my jacket off.

629
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:03,790
That was my goal.

630
00:50:04,310 --> 00:50:05,730
Just count on me.

631
00:50:06,430 --> 00:50:07,990
I got hot in the studio here.

632
00:50:08,190 --> 00:50:09,830
I want to be known as the troublemaker.

633
00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:10,730
You are.

634
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:18,910
So, well, hey, George, kind of backing up a little bit, you know,

635
00:50:18,910 --> 00:50:25,810
when we look at where we are with Bitcoin,

636
00:50:27,010 --> 00:50:29,370
what's kind of happening with society,

637
00:50:29,370 --> 00:50:34,390
I think Larry kind of said some things.

638
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:35,470
I'll just expand on it a second.

639
00:50:35,610 --> 00:50:43,530
I think when the money printer starts working, when AI causes the job displacement, when

640
00:50:43,530 --> 00:50:51,270
Trump comes in or whomever comes in, they start reducing interest rates, we start seeing

641
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:54,230
these extreme actions to try to save the economy.

642
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:55,670
That's kind of what I'm getting at.

643
00:50:55,690 --> 00:50:56,930
There's going to be all these extreme actions.

644
00:50:56,930 --> 00:51:04,110
One of the things that I think will happen is you'll see the socialism side rebel quickly.

645
00:51:04,310 --> 00:51:07,390
Like Gary even mentioned universal basic income.

646
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:12,290
And for those who haven't, I recommend two books.

647
00:51:12,750 --> 00:51:13,850
Go read Atlas Shrugged.

648
00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:14,690
It's quite a read.

649
00:51:15,330 --> 00:51:17,370
But also, more modern times, Mandibles.

650
00:51:19,830 --> 00:51:22,510
A Mandibles is a great book.

651
00:51:23,150 --> 00:51:23,630
Absolutely.

652
00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:35,090
But they both kind of talk about how when chaos occurs, the masses tend to say, government saves me.

653
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:38,430
And it's the exact wrong reaction.

654
00:51:38,430 --> 00:51:39,970
It should be the opposite reaction.

655
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:49,410
And what worries me is when there are people in my life, and George, for those who don't know, George and I are friends.

656
00:51:49,470 --> 00:51:51,210
We've known each other for several years now.

657
00:51:51,210 --> 00:52:09,650
And, you know, when you see family members or people that you're close to that don't get it, that are falling for the other side and maybe even angry at you thinking you are the problem or you are the enemy, that can be a difficult thing.

658
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:18,090
And I know you and I, George, we've talked about this somewhat, but I think some people would love to hear how you feel about this.

659
00:52:18,090 --> 00:52:47,870
This is a really important issue. I mean, I'm glad that we've pivoted the conversation to this because how we left that, Gary and I, when we were talking about AI and both for health and what I think will be the replacement of many jobs, any white collar job, any job that requires algorithmic decision making, anything that has a decision tree in it, anything that requires an analytic take on data, anything that you can imagine, creative content, these things, it is going to be disruptive.

660
00:52:48,090 --> 00:52:52,950
and somebody's already touched on the fact that, yeah, it's going to be a difficult period.

661
00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:58,270
And Larry talks about secular inflation. Inflation in different segments are probably going to be

662
00:52:58,270 --> 00:53:04,010
very high in this upcoming three to five years. But the good news is, on the other side,

663
00:53:04,010 --> 00:53:10,710
if you make it, if you understand what sound, hard money is, if you realize that you need

664
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:16,510
something the government can't print, on the other side, you are going to be set. You are going to

665
00:53:16,510 --> 00:53:20,370
have probably the only thing that will preserve your wealth, either gold or Bitcoin.

666
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:25,910
Obviously, I'm a hardcore Bitcoin maxi, but you need something that can save you to the

667
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:26,370
other side.

668
00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:29,530
And I do think I will tell you right now.

669
00:53:30,930 --> 00:53:32,410
Let me ask you guys something.

670
00:53:33,410 --> 00:53:40,010
Can any one of you name one central bank in the entire planet that wants to see Bitcoin

671
00:53:40,010 --> 00:53:40,570
succeed?

672
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:43,370
No.

673
00:53:44,010 --> 00:53:45,690
Well, OK, Gary, you got one?

674
00:53:45,690 --> 00:53:47,350
No, no, I definitely don't.

675
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:47,950
All right.

676
00:53:48,090 --> 00:53:56,210
So now why don't you find one cantillion nipple sucker like a politician?

677
00:53:56,950 --> 00:54:01,590
Why don't you find one of them and ask them if they want to see Bitcoin succeed?

678
00:54:02,290 --> 00:54:08,950
Their whole world is built out on basically being close to the money source.

679
00:54:09,130 --> 00:54:15,510
And if Larry's right and the big prince coming, there are going to be a lot of people that are going to be getting as close to that.

680
00:54:15,690 --> 00:54:20,850
big printer as they can get. You know, the Spanish had probably the world's first reserve currency.

681
00:54:21,890 --> 00:54:26,530
And you know what the people did that were in positions of power, both religious and government

682
00:54:26,530 --> 00:54:33,190
employees? They got as close as they could to the gold galleon that was arriving on a periodic basis

683
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:40,490
from the new world. These people aren't going to want to see Bitcoin succeed. And it is up to you

684
00:54:40,490 --> 00:54:43,270
to understand that you are stacking for your family.

685
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:45,090
You are stacking for the world.

686
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:48,270
You are stacking for a better day on the other side of that

687
00:54:48,270 --> 00:54:52,950
when we do have deflationary pressures to build a new world.

688
00:54:53,890 --> 00:54:58,870
Well, George, do you ever worry about in this new world you're talking about,

689
00:54:59,830 --> 00:55:03,290
there's not going to be near as many people with as much money as there is now,

690
00:55:03,590 --> 00:55:06,930
or when we rephrase it, people who didn't have a lot of money before

691
00:55:06,930 --> 00:55:08,330
are now going to have a ton of money.

692
00:55:08,330 --> 00:55:14,710
and so are those people really going to have to like worry about protecting themselves

693
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:21,570
really hardcore does that make any sense what i'm saying let me ask you let's let's put it this way

694
00:55:21,570 --> 00:55:29,350
and let's see if i got this right so in my world if if ai is success successful in creating enormous

695
00:55:29,350 --> 00:55:35,330
bounty and wealth for our country for our citizens for the world imagine fusion energy

696
00:55:35,330 --> 00:55:43,550
So the world will change so significantly that whatever I say right now isn't going to make a bit of sense in that world.

697
00:55:44,350 --> 00:55:48,770
And it may mean that, you know, you talked about you touched on UBI, Gary.

698
00:55:49,010 --> 00:55:51,510
Well, let me ask you this.

699
00:55:51,970 --> 00:55:55,990
Imagine a world that we're talking about where people are struggling financially.

700
00:55:56,330 --> 00:55:58,070
There are massive job layoffs.

701
00:55:58,070 --> 00:56:04,430
what person in this planet, what person within the country's border, the U.S., is going to

702
00:56:04,430 --> 00:56:09,430
raise their hand and refuse to be given a UBI handout from the government?

703
00:56:10,210 --> 00:56:15,470
How many people? Nobody, nobody. Exactly. How many people refused their

704
00:56:15,470 --> 00:56:24,150
STEMI checks? So all I'm saying is that the world that we see in front of us is really disruptive.

705
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:34,230
And I think that in Larry's book, you know, I think he really covers that idea that you have to protect yourself going forward, especially at the latter part of the book.

706
00:56:34,650 --> 00:56:37,130
I'd be interested to get your comment on that, Larry.

707
00:56:37,850 --> 00:56:47,790
I think that's right. I mean, it's, you know, there will be this could be the largest transfer of wealth that has ever occurred in the history of humankind.

708
00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:52,270
If fiat currency dies the death that we think it might die.

709
00:56:52,270 --> 00:56:59,970
it could also get arrested some somewhere between here and that point if the politicians wake up

710
00:56:59,970 --> 00:57:06,290
and start behaving more responsibly and it's you know i always whenever i'm in any investment

711
00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:09,630
thesis i always think of what could go wrong what could go right what could go wrong and

712
00:57:09,630 --> 00:57:13,510
and lynn has said you know nothing stops that this train and i kind of agree with her and

713
00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:16,790
certainly if you observe the behavior of the u.s federal government up until this point

714
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:20,610
there is absolutely no indication that they intend to stop this train.

715
00:57:21,450 --> 00:57:25,970
But, you know, that doesn't mean that with worse conditions and massive inflation,

716
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:27,870
things can't change.

717
00:57:28,310 --> 00:57:32,170
And, you know, and it's not an unstoppable train.

718
00:57:32,410 --> 00:57:35,410
I mean, it might seem unstoppable, but, you know,

719
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:37,750
the biggest piece of stopping it would be to balance the budget.

720
00:57:38,330 --> 00:57:41,270
And, you know, that would require an immediate 40% cut

721
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:44,470
to all Social Security benefits and the defense budget,

722
00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:51,590
which right now is the third rail of politics because our voting block is big enough that no politician will touch that.

723
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:54,410
But sadly, our voting block is going to age out and die.

724
00:57:56,990 --> 00:57:57,390
Maybe.

725
00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:57,850
Maybe.

726
00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:59,190
Yeah, some of us.

727
00:57:59,190 --> 00:58:00,270
We're hoping a long ways out.

728
00:58:01,130 --> 00:58:01,870
Some of us.

729
00:58:01,890 --> 00:58:02,570
Some of us, right.

730
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:06,590
And the millennials and the X and all the other generations are going to have more votes.

731
00:58:06,590 --> 00:58:08,510
And they're going to say, you know, why are we paying these old guys?

732
00:58:08,570 --> 00:58:11,310
Why are we paying for their hips and knees and all this other shit?

733
00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:12,630
Yeah, they built the world we live in.

734
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:13,210
But guess what?

735
00:58:13,210 --> 00:58:19,310
they're getting too good a deal. It is a pretty good deal, Eric. Yeah, well, certainly the Medicare

736
00:58:19,310 --> 00:58:24,890
side. I mean, it's funny, there's a bifurcation there, though. I mean, yes, I turned 65, and I was

737
00:58:24,890 --> 00:58:30,630
kind of shocked at how cheap my health care costs got. But just before that occurred with Obamacare,

738
00:58:30,850 --> 00:58:36,590
I mean, a family of five, I was paying almost $38,000 a year with a $10,000 deductible.

739
00:58:37,410 --> 00:58:40,250
So, you know, now that was for a good plan, no doubt, Blue Cross.

740
00:58:40,430 --> 00:58:43,530
But, you know, $48,000 a year for medical care?

741
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:44,270
Come on.

742
00:58:44,530 --> 00:58:45,810
That's crazy.

743
00:58:46,510 --> 00:58:53,950
And I think it's just because the system is broken and, you know, they're forced to give, to charge the government and the Medicare recipients a lower number.

744
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:58,530
And so they turn around and they just nail the private people, you know, with a very high number.

745
00:58:58,530 --> 00:59:02,730
So it's just another thing in our system that fiat has broken.

746
00:59:02,970 --> 00:59:04,250
All the incentives are wrong.

747
00:59:04,250 --> 00:59:11,270
you know all the administrators get too much money etc etc so um yeah i don't know i got off

748
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:17,070
track george what was the question again well how bad is it gonna i'm a boomer yeah i had i had a

749
00:59:17,070 --> 00:59:22,430
brain fart you know what i'm gonna tell you so i think i think that covers a lot of the things we're

750
00:59:22,430 --> 00:59:27,210
discussing in the sense that you've got to find a way to protect yourself going forward and and it

751
00:59:27,210 --> 00:59:34,330
is things that the government cannot print if you can just understand and i i just you know i

752
00:59:34,330 --> 00:59:40,490
personally i can't stress enough to those people out there that are listening if you ever have any

753
00:59:40,490 --> 00:59:46,050
doubts about what you hold if you don't understand bitcoin you need to open up the books you just get

754
00:59:46,050 --> 00:59:51,010
in the damn books and start studying i love both those books gary that you recommended i've read

755
00:59:51,010 --> 00:59:56,470
both of those i'm reading the funny thing is i'm actually reading atlas shrugged again i started i

756
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:57,410
I was out elk hunting.

757
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:59,450
Yeah, that was me, actually, George.

758
00:59:59,750 --> 01:00:01,090
Yeah, I was elk hunting.

759
01:00:01,370 --> 01:00:05,270
And I was in the tent, and I had the Kindle, and I thought, you know, I'm going to start this book.

760
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:06,650
It's a great book, man.

761
01:00:06,830 --> 01:00:07,470
It is phenomenal.

762
01:00:07,590 --> 01:00:08,930
I just reread it, too.

763
01:00:10,310 --> 01:00:11,230
That's one of the things.

764
01:00:11,370 --> 01:00:14,610
I made a commitment about a year and a half ago.

765
01:00:14,610 --> 01:00:19,790
I said, I'm going to go back, and I'm going to reread all the seminal books.

766
01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:23,730
1984, Fahrenheit 451, Atlas Shrugged.

767
01:00:23,730 --> 01:00:50,270
And, and, but I'm going to read them as a 60 some year old guy, not as a, because we read them as youth. And I think it's great that we read them when we're young, but it's really difficult, I think, to grasp what's being said. But now, now you reread those, I would encourage everybody to do that. Or if you're an audiobook person, listen to the audiobooks, whatever. But go, go get those again, because they, they are so good.

768
01:00:50,270 --> 01:00:52,510
and if you

769
01:00:52,510 --> 01:00:54,770
take your years of wisdom

770
01:00:54,770 --> 01:00:56,930
and life experience

771
01:00:56,930 --> 01:00:58,930
and apply it to

772
01:00:58,930 --> 01:01:00,890
what's happening in those books you'll see they were

773
01:01:00,890 --> 01:01:02,390
spot on, they're so good

774
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:04,970
George I would just add, I think there's an important

775
01:01:04,970 --> 01:01:06,890
point we should make here because it's easier

776
01:01:06,890 --> 01:01:08,890
to see this at our age than it is when you're young

777
01:01:08,890 --> 01:01:11,010
this stuff is going to keep going

778
01:01:11,010 --> 01:01:12,610
up forever and

779
01:01:12,610 --> 01:01:14,970
these assets, gold and

780
01:01:14,970 --> 01:01:16,830
bitcoin but primarily bitcoin represent

781
01:01:16,830 --> 01:01:18,870
lifeboats and

782
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:23,470
the fiat currency system represents the titanic i've said it in many podcasts i strongly believe

783
01:01:23,470 --> 01:01:28,430
it that you know we got these lifeboats we paid lower prices we were lucky we were smart whatever

784
01:01:28,430 --> 01:01:33,710
we got but you know what if you're on that titanic you don't give a shit what price you pay you want

785
01:01:33,710 --> 01:01:39,590
the goddamn lifeboat and so you know it's it's extremely important i'm experiencing in the crew

786
01:01:39,590 --> 01:01:45,010
that i talk to a lot of price bias price fixing and bias where they say oh yeah you're right gosh

787
01:01:45,010 --> 01:01:48,650
I should have listened to a couple of years ago. I didn't, but man,

788
01:01:48,690 --> 01:01:53,550
it's at 125. How am I going to pay that? I just can't pay that. And I said,

789
01:01:53,590 --> 01:01:54,550
yeah, but I said,

790
01:01:54,550 --> 01:01:57,190
you're going to be saying the same thing in 10 years when it's at a million.

791
01:01:58,090 --> 01:02:01,270
And in 10 years it will be at a million. It'll probably be more than a million.

792
01:02:01,570 --> 01:02:03,450
And so people said that at 20, Larry.

793
01:02:03,570 --> 01:02:05,210
Well, that's right. And they said, I mean,

794
01:02:05,210 --> 01:02:08,570
I felt it at 400 when Max was telling me to buy it at two and I didn't listen.

795
01:02:09,390 --> 01:02:14,710
So unit bias, it's a real big problem. And so, you know, I would just say,

796
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:26,790
I mean, I know in my case, as I creep toward a retirement, so to speak, or being less involved and not working as much, you know, I just don't want to get in the position my father was in, which is he retired and he had money.

797
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:30,370
But by the time he passed, it had really gotten whittled away by inflation.

798
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:33,010
It just wasn't nearly, you know, what he had earned.

799
01:02:33,010 --> 01:02:41,150
And, you know, the beautiful thing about owning a Bitcoin stack or owning a gold stack is you just know it's going to keep up with inflation.

800
01:02:41,150 --> 01:03:01,950
And if you follow the old rule, which is the old annuity rule that you eat maybe between 3% and 4% of your principal every year to live off of, if you can get a stack that's big enough where 3% or 4% will cover your living expenses, and you sell 3% to pay your living expenses, then the other 97% goes up 10% or 20%, you can't run out of money.

801
01:03:01,950 --> 01:03:08,710
I mean, almost by definition, you can't run out of money, whereas by the time my father passed, he was pretty close to running out of money.

802
01:03:08,930 --> 01:03:13,410
And so, you know, I think it's a really important idea for people to understand.

803
01:03:14,050 --> 01:03:17,290
Younger people, maybe less so because they've got a lot of years of earnings power in front of them.

804
01:03:17,830 --> 01:03:28,350
But I wrote the book in large part because I really wanted to try and help people, the average person in America and particularly boomers, who I think, you know, they were trained for 40 years to buy the dip.

805
01:03:28,350 --> 01:03:29,950
And it worked in the stock market.

806
01:03:30,230 --> 01:03:31,090
And God bless them.

807
01:03:31,090 --> 01:03:32,970
And it's a good thing that it did work.

808
01:03:33,370 --> 01:03:37,570
But the rules of the game changed with COVID and with that big print.

809
01:03:37,730 --> 01:03:39,650
I mean, they sent out money directly via checks.

810
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:41,410
They gave away tons of money to businesses.

811
01:03:42,110 --> 01:03:43,310
Folks, they're going to do that again.

812
01:03:43,970 --> 01:03:47,330
And when the rules change, you've got to take account of that.

813
01:03:47,530 --> 01:03:51,190
And that means you've absolutely positively got to be in these assets.

814
01:03:51,390 --> 01:03:56,150
I mean, smart guys like Ray Dalio have said 15% or 20% in gold and Bitcoin.

815
01:03:56,490 --> 01:04:00,950
Jeff Gundlach, a bond guy, probably the best bond manager in the entire frigging country.

816
01:04:01,090 --> 01:04:03,870
is recommended with 25% allocation to gold.

817
01:04:04,650 --> 01:04:07,970
Paul Tudor said, I mean, the list goes on and on and on

818
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:10,970
of very, very smart investment managers realizing,

819
01:04:11,730 --> 01:04:15,090
oh my God, this monetary debasement trade is a thing.

820
01:04:16,050 --> 01:04:18,510
And for those who think you're too late, you're not.

821
01:04:19,350 --> 01:04:21,790
You missed the first or second inning, no doubt.

822
01:04:21,950 --> 01:04:25,350
We're not buying gold at 300 or 1,000 or 2,000

823
01:04:25,350 --> 01:04:26,310
better than paying four.

824
01:04:26,930 --> 01:04:30,750
But my belief is it's going to 10 and perhaps 20 on gold.

825
01:04:30,750 --> 01:04:34,950
And my belief on Bitcoin is it's going to a million and ultimately five million.

826
01:04:35,110 --> 01:04:39,690
And so, you know, if you pay $125 for it, I think in a few years you'll be very glad you did.

827
01:04:40,930 --> 01:04:45,310
Hey, Bob, I want to ask something real quick going back to something earlier, if that's OK with everybody.

828
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:51,770
I'm just curious, do you have any thoughts on or concerned about the upgrade to Core on Friday?

829
01:04:53,530 --> 01:04:57,090
Yes, I do. Yeah, I will not run it. I will not run it.

830
01:04:57,090 --> 01:05:00,090
OK, I was just curious. So are a lot of people not running it?

831
01:05:00,750 --> 01:05:01,430
That you know?

832
01:05:01,630 --> 01:05:02,810
I'm not right.

833
01:05:02,810 --> 01:05:09,190
Yeah, well, about – I'd say 20% of the market already moved to nots.

834
01:05:10,030 --> 01:05:24,935
It not core versus nots but I think concern over core has caused 20 of the market to move to knots or thereabouts I think you see the most people just not upgrade

835
01:05:25,775 --> 01:05:30,195
I think you'll have – there might be 10% or so that are ardent core supporters,

836
01:05:30,735 --> 01:05:32,635
and they'll probably upgrade.

837
01:05:34,275 --> 01:05:36,775
But, yeah, there's no need to upgrade.

838
01:05:36,875 --> 01:05:37,455
I'll put it that way.

839
01:05:37,455 --> 01:05:42,835
Like, I, there's nothing happening in that, that, that I have any concern about.

840
01:05:42,835 --> 01:05:44,895
And I, and I think it's a net negative.

841
01:05:45,935 --> 01:05:48,615
And so my recommendation is hold tight.

842
01:05:48,875 --> 01:05:55,015
And there's, there's a lot of us that are the same, you know, Samson Mao, Jimmy Song,

843
01:05:55,555 --> 01:05:58,935
Jeff Booth, or we're all in the same camp.

844
01:05:59,015 --> 01:06:00,175
George is in the camp with us.

845
01:06:00,335 --> 01:06:05,235
There's, there's a whole bunch of us that are, Nick Zabel has even come out of the woodwork

846
01:06:05,235 --> 01:06:08,815
in support of that strategy.

847
01:06:09,295 --> 01:06:10,355
And by the way,

848
01:06:10,455 --> 01:06:12,835
Knott's is a great implementation.

849
01:06:13,395 --> 01:06:14,135
And as a miner,

850
01:06:14,355 --> 01:06:15,835
a guy who runs mining companies,

851
01:06:16,375 --> 01:06:18,535
it is better than Core for what I do.

852
01:06:19,555 --> 01:06:21,815
But it may or may not be better

853
01:06:21,815 --> 01:06:23,955
if you're running version 25

854
01:06:23,955 --> 01:06:25,775
or something without a Core on a node.

855
01:06:25,935 --> 01:06:27,655
My recommendation is just keep doing that.

856
01:06:28,975 --> 01:06:30,615
I want to weigh in on this

857
01:06:30,615 --> 01:06:31,595
before you go, Gary,

858
01:06:31,855 --> 01:06:34,215
because I have concerns

859
01:06:34,215 --> 01:06:55,795
And I mentioned this earlier. And, you know, Bob doesn't maybe have the same level of concern that I do, but I do have concerns. And he's already aware of the example that I'm going to bring up right now, which is that BSV, Satoshi's vision, which is basically a failed fork of Bitcoin cash, which is a failed fork of Bitcoin.

860
01:06:55,795 --> 01:07:01,095
You know, they did the exact same thing that they're going to do tomorrow on Friday.

861
01:07:01,215 --> 01:07:09,895
That is core releasing or upping the off return limit from 80 or 83 bytes, depending on how you view it, to 100,000 bytes.

862
01:07:10,435 --> 01:07:15,695
What the hell do you think happened to BSV within a very short period of time?

863
01:07:16,435 --> 01:07:17,975
I'm sure Bob can tell you.

864
01:07:17,975 --> 01:07:26,935
They ended up with images on there that are just shit.

865
01:07:27,255 --> 01:07:36,395
Just picture something to happen to some little kid and then imagine that on your nodes, RAM or disk temporarily.

866
01:07:37,175 --> 01:07:38,915
Although not always temporarily.

867
01:07:38,915 --> 01:07:46,815
Every time you verify, if you're an archival node, if you're a full node and you verify the data, you know what?

868
01:07:46,815 --> 01:07:49,955
that's on there for fucking forever.

869
01:07:50,775 --> 01:07:52,735
And so I do have concerns about it.

870
01:07:52,835 --> 01:07:57,055
Well, how could, you know, with as big as the Bitcoin cash versus Bitcoin

871
01:07:57,055 --> 01:08:01,475
and all that hell was, how could they not foresee what could happen?

872
01:08:01,615 --> 01:08:05,015
I mean, that confuses me.

873
01:08:06,555 --> 01:08:09,535
Before I let Bob step in, I want to say something, which is,

874
01:08:09,695 --> 01:08:11,235
how did I start this podcast?

875
01:08:11,235 --> 01:08:12,575
I said, I've lost faith.

876
01:08:12,655 --> 01:08:13,555
I've lost trust.

877
01:08:13,555 --> 01:08:19,495
you know i don't and again i've already told you as an example just get on there and start

878
01:08:19,495 --> 01:08:24,715
doing some research into the actual core maintainers the five of them and you will

879
01:08:24,715 --> 01:08:30,155
find some things that are disconcerting and you'll also find that much of it is a very obscure

880
01:08:30,155 --> 01:08:35,215
i would put forward that i that we are dealing with developers

881
01:08:35,215 --> 01:08:43,035
who are playing fafo fuck around and find out and that they're doing it with the most

882
01:08:43,035 --> 01:08:50,575
important monetary invention in the history of mankind. And it is something that not just has to

883
01:08:50,575 --> 01:08:56,495
last for a thousand years, but I mean it when I say I think it is the lifeline over the next three

884
01:08:56,495 --> 01:09:02,575
to five years for us to escape the digital world that's being built for us. So it's pretty damn

885
01:09:02,575 --> 01:09:12,415
important. And I again, I just feel that we're dealing with people that don't know how to either

886
01:09:12,415 --> 01:09:24,895
run a business, a board, consensus, transparency, build a network. I could go down the rabbit hole

887
01:09:24,895 --> 01:09:31,395
and give more here, but that's probably enough. I have concerns, real concerns about that change

888
01:09:31,395 --> 01:09:40,815
tomorrow. Yeah. Well, I want to be clear too. If I came off as somehow in support of it or

889
01:09:40,815 --> 01:09:48,515
I do have concerns about the type of spam that George is talking about.

890
01:09:48,655 --> 01:09:50,535
I think spam in general is bad.

891
01:09:51,655 --> 01:09:54,055
I think they are giving up too early.

892
01:09:54,535 --> 01:09:56,815
They're basically saying there's no hope.

893
01:09:56,895 --> 01:09:57,834
We can't fight it.

894
01:09:57,935 --> 01:10:01,155
And I think that that's a pussy move.

895
01:10:01,775 --> 01:10:03,015
Like it just – I'm sorry.

896
01:10:03,095 --> 01:10:03,815
I probably shouldn't say that.

897
01:10:04,035 --> 01:10:05,215
But it's a terrible move.

898
01:10:05,435 --> 01:10:05,795
I'll say it.

899
01:10:05,955 --> 01:10:06,475
I'll say it.

900
01:10:06,635 --> 01:10:08,334
That's the way George has been saying.

901
01:10:08,334 --> 01:10:08,935
Yeah.

902
01:10:08,935 --> 01:10:14,095
Yeah, but it's a terrible move.

903
01:10:16,435 --> 01:10:17,834
But here's the thing.

904
01:10:18,195 --> 01:10:19,535
Nobody has to run it.

905
01:10:20,155 --> 01:10:22,915
They can release it, but nobody has to run it.

906
01:10:23,495 --> 01:10:32,535
And so now I think that we'll see pretty quickly 10% or so of the market do it because it has become a schism.

907
01:10:32,535 --> 01:10:45,055
And I think much like there are people that wear MAGA hats to signal their political affiliation or people that still walk around wearing masks.

908
01:10:45,195 --> 01:10:48,535
By the way, Larry, I was at the University of Michigan football game this weekend.

909
01:10:49,315 --> 01:10:50,215
Had a great time.

910
01:10:50,215 --> 01:10:56,455
But I saw a guy standing there outside, double masked at the Michigan game.

911
01:10:57,015 --> 01:11:03,135
And I thought, well, is he really doing this because he's afraid of getting COVID?

912
01:11:03,235 --> 01:11:05,135
Or is he trying to send a social signal?

913
01:11:06,235 --> 01:11:08,455
And I defer to the latter.

914
01:11:09,815 --> 01:11:12,595
So anyway, I think there's a signaling that will occur.

915
01:11:12,595 --> 01:11:21,315
I think there's a great chance that the community rebellion will ultimately cause a reversal of this.

916
01:11:21,895 --> 01:11:27,374
And in version 31 or whatever a subsequent version is that maybe we'll see it pulled back.

917
01:11:27,955 --> 01:11:32,095
I think we'll see knots continue to increase in adoption as a result.

918
01:11:32,235 --> 01:11:33,775
I think we'll see a lot of people stop.

919
01:11:35,055 --> 01:11:40,915
You know, I mentioned not that not that all of us are always right, but I mentioned all these names.

920
01:11:40,915 --> 01:11:45,874
a sailor by the way sailor isn't necessarily in support of knots but he's been very adamant that

921
01:11:45,874 --> 01:11:51,035
like we don't we don't need change like i want to enter i want to interrupt you there for a minute

922
01:11:51,035 --> 01:11:59,675
you know months ago months ago i stood on a just stood up and raised my hand in that in a small

923
01:11:59,675 --> 01:12:04,795
conference maybe a hundred people there and i there was to talk about bitcoin treasury companies

924
01:12:04,795 --> 01:12:09,795
But I made sailor. I asked him to weigh in on this. And I even mentioned knots versus core.

925
01:12:10,315 --> 01:12:23,675
And if you don't have it, if you have a chance, you should probably listen to his response, because in my mind, it's very clear that, again, this FAFO principle is not the way to go with Bitcoin protocol.

926
01:12:23,675 --> 01:12:29,535
I mean, or the software implementations to run a node, I don't think have any place.

927
01:12:29,535 --> 01:12:33,455
And I'm sorry to interrupt you there, but people need to know that he's weighed in on this.

928
01:12:33,834 --> 01:12:35,815
And it's worth a listen to.

929
01:12:36,015 --> 01:12:41,255
So if you want to put some crap on the blockchain, some spam, you need to take advantage of it right away.

930
01:12:42,715 --> 01:12:43,755
That's what you're saying.

931
01:12:43,874 --> 01:12:46,395
Well, I hope not.

932
01:12:46,675 --> 01:12:52,455
And it'll be very interesting to see what happens if a block is produced with that stuff.

933
01:12:53,135 --> 01:13:05,395
Hopefully what will happen as well as we will, at a minimum, like here, you know, this is a whole other rabbit hole, but there's a great deal of pool centralization right now, right?

934
01:13:05,415 --> 01:13:07,615
And it's another issue within Bitcoin.

935
01:13:07,615 --> 01:13:16,275
But here's one way in which it might help, that we really don't have that many different people creating templates right now.

936
01:13:16,275 --> 01:13:31,495
And so we only need about six to 10 organizations to make the right stance about not necessarily spam, but about, you know, child porn or the type of things that George is referring to, maybe showing up on the blockchain.

937
01:13:31,495 --> 01:13:43,235
So hopefully they will all make sound decisions, even if they want to put dancing cats or alligator smoking cigars or whatever on the chain.

938
01:13:43,355 --> 01:13:48,135
I hate it, but it doesn't really do the type of long term damage.

939
01:13:48,135 --> 01:13:53,515
Let me just ask Larry a question here. So, Larry, you just got you just got back from D.C.

940
01:13:53,515 --> 01:13:58,855
and you were there and you were talking with senators and different people involved in the

941
01:13:58,855 --> 01:14:06,995
space. And so how are you going to deal with that if you're you go to a meeting and let's say it's

942
01:14:06,995 --> 01:14:13,274
the same type of a scenario and there are headlines out there discussing what I'm discussing.

943
01:14:13,855 --> 01:14:21,915
Bitcoin carries whatever image you want to put in your mind on there or malware or I don't know,

944
01:14:21,915 --> 01:14:25,075
a bad video or something like that. I mean,

945
01:14:25,155 --> 01:14:30,615
how long have we been sitting here fighting FUD for the last, you know,

946
01:14:30,635 --> 01:14:34,995
decade of, of nonsense and we've overcome much of it. Yeah. So, I mean,

947
01:14:34,995 --> 01:14:37,274
how do you, you know, how is that going to go?

948
01:14:37,274 --> 01:14:40,915
I'm completely with you, George. I mean, I just, I think, you know,

949
01:14:40,935 --> 01:14:44,515
our argument will be, well, nobody sees it and it's pretty harmless, but,

950
01:14:44,615 --> 01:14:47,815
but it's, but that's not entirely a justifiable argument. I mean,

951
01:14:47,815 --> 01:14:50,895
it is there and it'll be there forever and people can go see it.

952
01:14:51,915 --> 01:15:05,095
So I'm pretty much with you that it strikes me from I'm not a technical guy and I have not dug as deep as either you or Bob or maybe Gary as well have onto this issue.

953
01:15:05,615 --> 01:15:08,595
I actually kind of look at it more just as a social matter.

954
01:15:09,355 --> 01:15:14,455
I know that I'm appalled at the way that some of the core developers have treated the community.

955
01:15:14,455 --> 01:15:28,374
I mean, I think that, you know, they have an enormous trust that they hold to, as you say, not FAFO and to do things carefully, you know, with this incredibly important invention that Satoshi gifted us.

956
01:15:28,635 --> 01:15:34,374
So, you know, the notion that they're misbehaving on that, I think they should be called out on it.

957
01:15:34,655 --> 01:15:42,774
And, you know, we could, I mean, hopefully we can maybe change core developers or, you know, shun the bad ones and the good ones will rise to the surface.

958
01:15:42,774 --> 01:15:50,015
I don't know, Bob, has any core developer ever really been called on the carpet for bad behavior?

959
01:15:50,175 --> 01:15:52,055
Because it strikes me that...

960
01:15:52,055 --> 01:15:55,395
Sure, sure. Back in the early days, sure. Yeah, they have.

961
01:15:56,315 --> 01:16:00,555
But it is a little bit of an interesting process.

962
01:16:02,295 --> 01:16:04,095
And it's very insular.

963
01:16:05,695 --> 01:16:08,075
Outside candidates aren't really welcome.

964
01:16:08,075 --> 01:16:11,595
you know the king is anointed

965
01:16:11,595 --> 01:16:15,695
or the kings are anointed from within

966
01:16:15,695 --> 01:16:17,435
is there any schism within though

967
01:16:17,435 --> 01:16:20,675
are there some core developers who kind of look at some of their cohorts

968
01:16:20,675 --> 01:16:21,955
and go gosh that's not right

969
01:16:21,955 --> 01:16:24,935
I think so

970
01:16:24,935 --> 01:16:29,495
but they're reluctant to maybe be critical

971
01:16:29,495 --> 01:16:32,715
and you know there's a difference between

972
01:16:32,715 --> 01:16:35,374
core contributors and maintainers

973
01:16:35,374 --> 01:16:42,535
and people that have merge keys and like, like, and, um, you know, they,

974
01:16:44,855 --> 01:16:52,095
that, that there's, I hate stereotyping, but I am an engineer myself, but I think,

975
01:16:52,095 --> 01:16:57,795
you know, a lot of engineers don't like controversy. They, you know, so, so sometimes

976
01:16:57,795 --> 01:17:04,415
some of the quiet ones may not like what's happening, but they may want to not be

977
01:17:04,415 --> 01:17:06,415
confrontational with their cohorts.

978
01:17:06,975 --> 01:17:10,855
I mean, that's, I think, a very difficult thing for some of them to do.

979
01:17:11,055 --> 01:17:18,615
And then those like Luke, who is a very controversial figure, definitely get pushed aside.

980
01:17:19,395 --> 01:17:24,415
Like, you know, Luke has, you know, I think even some of the people who hate him would

981
01:17:24,415 --> 01:17:26,915
say, well, you know, Luke Dasher saved Bitcoin twice.

982
01:17:27,595 --> 01:17:34,315
But even he, when he expresses his opinions, because he is,

983
01:17:34,415 --> 01:17:41,155
he is the opposite. He is, he is very direct. You know, he will, he will, you know, not a lot of

984
01:17:41,155 --> 01:17:45,015
political correctness and, you know, Luke's a friend. I love him. I'm a, I'm part of his company,

985
01:17:45,015 --> 01:17:49,135
but, you know, not a lot of political correctness and he doesn't mean it personally. He say, well,

986
01:17:49,135 --> 01:17:53,855
you're a liar, you know, instead of saying, well, maybe you're wrong. He'll say, well,

987
01:17:53,855 --> 01:18:02,115
you're a liar. So, but, but, um, and some people can't handle that. Right. And, you know, so, um,

988
01:18:02,115 --> 01:18:07,374
So I think that's part of this issue, but a lot of it comes down to maturity.

989
01:18:07,555 --> 01:18:09,195
What are the maturity levels of these people?

990
01:18:09,335 --> 01:18:14,295
Where are the maturity levels of the organization and the processes and the communication methods and all that?

991
01:18:14,815 --> 01:18:15,695
That, I believe, is fundamental.

992
01:18:15,695 --> 01:18:17,455
You could see someone step down after this, Bob.

993
01:18:17,615 --> 01:18:23,874
I mean, you know, Gavin and Dreesen stepped down because of, you know, how people attacked him and thought of what he did.

994
01:18:24,655 --> 01:18:24,855
Yeah.

995
01:18:25,655 --> 01:18:25,815
Yeah.

996
01:18:25,815 --> 01:18:29,935
You know, Gary, I'll tell you, I'm not seeing that personally.

997
01:18:29,935 --> 01:18:42,935
When I look at core developers or I look at the three stooges that are their spokespeople that are always out there online defending them and attacking Luke, I really don't see that sense of humility.

998
01:18:43,774 --> 01:18:45,575
I mean, I don't know about you guys, but look at us.

999
01:18:45,635 --> 01:18:46,335
We're all older.

1000
01:18:46,855 --> 01:18:48,855
I mean, we've all screwed things up in life.

1001
01:18:49,355 --> 01:18:50,155
Big time.

1002
01:18:50,835 --> 01:18:51,155
Exactly.

1003
01:18:51,475 --> 01:18:51,955
Big time.

1004
01:18:52,075 --> 01:18:52,575
So have I.

1005
01:18:52,835 --> 01:18:54,815
We all have made mistakes, endless mistakes.

1006
01:18:54,935 --> 01:18:55,374
And guess what?

1007
01:18:55,374 --> 01:19:00,215
I'll bet there isn't one of us here on this panel right now that can't raise his hands and say, hey, I fucked up.

1008
01:19:00,315 --> 01:19:00,675
Absolutely.

1009
01:19:00,995 --> 01:19:01,315
I'm sorry.

1010
01:19:01,675 --> 01:19:02,435
I'm sorry.

1011
01:19:02,555 --> 01:19:02,955
You know what?

1012
01:19:02,975 --> 01:19:03,695
I made a mistake.

1013
01:19:04,015 --> 01:19:06,135
But you won't see that with these young kids.

1014
01:19:06,615 --> 01:19:08,995
Young kids don't know how to say they're sorry, first of all.

1015
01:19:09,035 --> 01:19:11,374
So it has nothing to do with the fact that they're core developers.

1016
01:19:11,955 --> 01:19:13,475
They just don't know how to say that.

1017
01:19:13,715 --> 01:19:14,655
Now, wait a minute, Gary.

1018
01:19:14,955 --> 01:19:16,755
I don't want to drift down the road you're going.

1019
01:19:16,874 --> 01:19:17,055
Yeah.

1020
01:19:17,195 --> 01:19:19,335
Not all that generation's bad.

1021
01:19:19,435 --> 01:19:20,055
Just some of them.

1022
01:19:20,715 --> 01:19:21,075
Exactly.

1023
01:19:21,215 --> 01:19:23,095
The next thing you know, we'll be going, those damn kids.

1024
01:19:23,095 --> 01:19:24,274
I take it back.

1025
01:19:24,274 --> 01:19:25,274
Like, I'm off of that.

1026
01:19:25,735 --> 01:19:27,155
We'll be on a grass lawn going,

1027
01:19:27,215 --> 01:19:29,315
And their rap music and, yeah.

1028
01:19:29,374 --> 01:19:31,295
Yeah, yeah, those damn rappers.

1029
01:19:31,995 --> 01:19:33,235
The minute we do that,

1030
01:19:33,315 --> 01:19:34,455
they're right to come back at us

1031
01:19:34,455 --> 01:19:36,675
and call us, you know, dinosaur boomers.

1032
01:19:36,935 --> 01:19:37,835
They do it anyway.

1033
01:19:38,075 --> 01:19:38,575
They do it anyway.

1034
01:19:38,575 --> 01:19:39,055
They should.

1035
01:19:39,415 --> 01:19:40,135
They should.

1036
01:19:40,615 --> 01:19:43,335
Yeah, you can't even get on the system here.

1037
01:19:43,975 --> 01:19:44,435
Yeah, exactly.

1038
01:19:44,435 --> 01:19:45,075
We got you.

1039
01:19:45,075 --> 01:19:45,975
We got you finally.

1040
01:19:45,975 --> 01:19:48,035
I had a hard time logging on.

1041
01:19:48,175 --> 01:19:48,675
It was, you know.

1042
01:19:49,695 --> 01:19:50,455
We got you.

1043
01:19:50,475 --> 01:19:52,355
This technology shit, it's very confusing.

1044
01:19:54,274 --> 01:19:58,435
All right. So what else do you guys want to talk about?

1045
01:19:59,235 --> 01:20:00,955
Hey, I want to know something about art.

1046
01:20:02,035 --> 01:20:03,675
Who's your favorite artist?

1047
01:20:04,455 --> 01:20:06,374
Oh, that's easy. John Singer Sargent.

1048
01:20:06,395 --> 01:20:06,975
I knew that.

1049
01:20:07,215 --> 01:20:12,695
He's an 18th, 100th, 19th century painter, long dead, deceased, gifted.

1050
01:20:13,115 --> 01:20:15,895
He painted in the old style, meaning very traditional.

1051
01:20:16,075 --> 01:20:22,774
But at the same time, he was aggressive and he boldly went places where no man has gone before.

1052
01:20:22,774 --> 01:20:23,955
He was a great artist.

1053
01:20:24,274 --> 01:20:26,595
Well, good enough. That's a good answer.

1054
01:20:27,895 --> 01:20:35,795
Yeah, and those, you know, George is very modest, and, you know, his art is very important.

1055
01:20:36,415 --> 01:20:38,335
Got a great gallery in Sarasota.

1056
01:20:38,735 --> 01:20:40,635
Maybe you have other spots, too, but in Sarasota.

1057
01:20:40,695 --> 01:20:43,455
If you're in Sarasota, what's the name of the gallery there, George?

1058
01:20:43,935 --> 01:20:45,635
It's Palm Avenue Fine Art.

1059
01:20:45,675 --> 01:20:46,575
If you're in there, stop by.

1060
01:20:46,955 --> 01:20:48,595
You can just type my name in the Internet.

1061
01:20:48,735 --> 01:20:53,075
You'll see the work that I produce and stuff, and I don't like to talk a bunch about my work.

1062
01:20:53,075 --> 01:21:08,435
I mentioned this earlier and, you know, I'm going to say something, which is that basically in my world, how I see this playing out is I do see us going through a really difficult time, like Larry was discussing, as far as inflation, pressures, prints, governments.

1063
01:21:08,715 --> 01:21:21,655
But I still am hopeful. I think within three to five years, we're going to see a tremendous cornucopia of debasement or deflation, I should say, meaning that things are going to get cheaper.

1064
01:21:21,655 --> 01:21:26,075
And if AI pans out and we don't kill ourselves, then you know what?

1065
01:21:26,335 --> 01:21:29,455
We're going to have a great, bright orange future in front of us.

1066
01:21:29,515 --> 01:21:32,255
And each one of us, hopefully, will still be around.

1067
01:21:32,435 --> 01:21:36,155
Or like Gary, I'm kind of interested in what you were discussing earlier.

1068
01:21:36,255 --> 01:21:40,075
I'm going to start pursuing a little bit more of the health aspects of AI.

1069
01:21:40,615 --> 01:21:41,015
You know what?

1070
01:21:41,095 --> 01:21:42,075
Maybe we'll be around for a while.

1071
01:21:42,115 --> 01:21:42,895
We'll get to enjoy this.

1072
01:21:42,935 --> 01:21:46,475
And if we do, each one of us sitting here right now is going to have to come up with

1073
01:21:46,475 --> 01:21:50,495
something they want to do in life when they've got a lot of extra free time, just like young

1074
01:21:50,495 --> 01:21:51,575
people today need to.

1075
01:21:51,655 --> 01:21:56,675
got to do something creative i don't care if it's woodworking make some pottery go out there

1076
01:21:56,675 --> 01:22:02,015
design buildings use uh use your hands do something you know there are a lot of ways to

1077
01:22:02,015 --> 01:22:06,635
be an artist i was looking through your art george i thought that there was going to be like a hidden

1078
01:22:06,635 --> 01:22:12,635
bitcoin symbol somewhere that you had to really hunt for but you go there it is i found it we're

1079
01:22:12,635 --> 01:22:17,015
mining bitcoin right now while we're talking back there on that painting there's a little satoshi

1080
01:22:17,015 --> 01:22:19,274
over his, what was that, your right shoulder, George.

1081
01:22:19,274 --> 01:22:20,635
That's a BitX.

1082
01:22:21,035 --> 01:22:21,235
Yeah.

1083
01:22:21,374 --> 01:22:22,235
It's mining.

1084
01:22:22,675 --> 01:22:23,855
And George, yeah.

1085
01:22:24,515 --> 01:22:26,255
Up close looks like this, by the way.

1086
01:22:26,795 --> 01:22:27,735
Yeah, exactly.

1087
01:22:28,215 --> 01:22:29,774
And, you know, there's...

1088
01:22:29,774 --> 01:22:30,435
I have that in the brains.

1089
01:22:30,515 --> 01:22:31,675
What's that little brains one?

1090
01:22:32,815 --> 01:22:35,235
Oh, yeah, they have a mini miner, I think they call it.

1091
01:22:35,615 --> 01:22:36,374
Yeah, that's it.

1092
01:22:36,374 --> 01:22:39,215
Yeah, everybody should run one.

1093
01:22:39,995 --> 01:22:41,735
But George has done Bitcoin art.

1094
01:22:41,795 --> 01:22:42,774
Well, you can see that one.

1095
01:22:43,515 --> 01:22:44,835
He did two paintings.

1096
01:22:44,835 --> 01:22:52,015
um god bestows bitcoin larry larry actually owns those paintings he owns two paintings they're big

1097
01:22:52,015 --> 01:22:57,855
and they're uh kind of like mixed media and they document a very certain period in bitcoin's

1098
01:22:57,855 --> 01:23:04,235
history back up until around 2022 and we were going through some really big crisis then so all

1099
01:23:04,235 --> 01:23:10,195
that's on those panels and according accordingly there's also two images one is god bestows bitcoin

1100
01:23:10,195 --> 01:23:18,274
to Adam and beside it is God bestows Bitcoin to Eve. And in fact, Bob's got the only print in the

1101
01:23:18,274 --> 01:23:22,995
world that I'm ever going to make of that with Larry's permission to. And then Larry owns the

1102
01:23:22,995 --> 01:23:29,055
paintings there with a Bitcoin museum down there in Nashville right now. So you also forgot to

1103
01:23:29,055 --> 01:23:34,675
mention that Bob's beautiful wife was the model. Exactly. I often don't, you know, I don't usually

1104
01:23:34,675 --> 01:23:40,755
talk about that. I did not know that. It's an old habit because I don't usually talk about models.

1105
01:23:41,055 --> 01:23:46,115
I learned that as a young man when I was an artist working with a lot of nudes and stuff.

1106
01:23:46,115 --> 01:23:52,995
I can see why Bob got a print of that then. Yeah, it's beautiful. It hangs in our living room.

1107
01:23:53,415 --> 01:23:59,115
It's beautiful. And she, Lola, George also did one of Lola from our trip to Prague

1108
01:23:59,115 --> 01:24:02,035
last year that's not Bitcoin related.

1109
01:24:02,274 --> 01:24:06,315
So we've got two of George's pieces in our house

1110
01:24:06,315 --> 01:24:07,735
and we're very proud of it.

1111
01:24:08,335 --> 01:24:09,995
I don't usually do commissions,

1112
01:24:10,215 --> 01:24:12,575
but sometimes for friends, I'll do that.

1113
01:24:12,575 --> 01:24:15,835
I actually, and I don't usually sell my own work,

1114
01:24:15,935 --> 01:24:18,515
but occasionally if somebody wants to buy it for Bitcoin,

1115
01:24:18,595 --> 01:24:20,035
because none of the galleries that I'm in,

1116
01:24:20,095 --> 01:24:20,915
they don't use Bitcoin.

1117
01:24:21,055 --> 01:24:21,695
Isn't that amazing?

1118
01:24:22,055 --> 01:24:22,874
Think about it, guys.

1119
01:24:23,415 --> 01:24:26,215
In today's world, nobody's using Bitcoin like that.

1120
01:24:26,355 --> 01:24:26,695
It's ridiculous.

1121
01:24:26,695 --> 01:24:29,895
Yeah, it's amazing running the conference.

1122
01:24:30,515 --> 01:24:36,535
You know, our first conference nine years ago, someone paid $10,000 in Bitcoin to be the sponsor.

1123
01:24:36,795 --> 01:24:41,095
It was $7,000, you know, so I got a Bitcoin and a half.

1124
01:24:41,455 --> 01:24:45,615
So now, you know, and I never sold any Bitcoin.

1125
01:24:45,735 --> 01:24:48,515
So I was like going now I go, wow, that was a good damn conference.

1126
01:24:48,874 --> 01:24:49,195
Yeah.

1127
01:24:49,835 --> 01:24:51,355
There was only like 50 people there.

1128
01:24:51,995 --> 01:24:52,295
Wow.

1129
01:24:52,374 --> 01:24:52,895
That's neat.

1130
01:24:53,055 --> 01:24:53,815
That's great, Gary.

1131
01:24:53,815 --> 01:24:54,215
Good story.

1132
01:24:54,215 --> 01:24:58,774
Well, George, where can people find you?

1133
01:24:59,655 --> 01:25:02,835
Like I said, just type my name in the internet, George Bodine.

1134
01:25:02,935 --> 01:25:03,774
You'll see who I am.

1135
01:25:03,935 --> 01:25:06,635
And I'm only on one social media platform.

1136
01:25:06,795 --> 01:25:07,475
That's X.

1137
01:25:07,995 --> 01:25:10,055
And I have a blue checkmark next to my name.

1138
01:25:10,135 --> 01:25:12,255
If you don't see that, somebody contacts you.

1139
01:25:12,555 --> 01:25:13,915
I never reach out to people.

1140
01:25:13,975 --> 01:25:15,155
I don't need any money in life.

1141
01:25:15,495 --> 01:25:16,535
I don't want anything in life.

1142
01:25:16,595 --> 01:25:17,795
I don't want any clicks, followers.

1143
01:25:18,155 --> 01:25:19,295
I don't need jacks yet.

1144
01:25:19,395 --> 01:25:20,055
I'm all set.

1145
01:25:20,215 --> 01:25:20,774
I'm happy.

1146
01:25:21,215 --> 01:25:23,795
The only reason I'm doing this kind of stuff is, in fact,

1147
01:25:23,795 --> 01:25:29,675
two of the people on this panel are Bob and Larry kind of talked me into maybe coming out a little

1148
01:25:29,675 --> 01:25:35,935
more and I'm glad I did and hopefully it's a positive experience for people and it helps them

1149
01:25:35,935 --> 01:25:41,295
in their conviction and courage to carry Bitcoin forward. Well I can say it's been a pleasure

1150
01:25:41,295 --> 01:25:45,195
meeting you I'm glad they talked you into it and I'm glad you accepted because this has been a great

1151
01:25:45,195 --> 01:25:51,274
conversation and I but I could tell from watching previous interviews of you this morning trying to

1152
01:25:51,274 --> 01:25:56,055
get some background information. I said, oh, I'm going to enjoy this. That's good. Anyway,

1153
01:25:56,255 --> 01:26:03,675
you can find me. Well, thank you, George. You know, being our guinea pig, being our first guest,

1154
01:26:03,895 --> 01:26:09,735
you know, was a little bit of a risk. Fantastic. Do you have that prize for him that

1155
01:26:09,735 --> 01:26:12,374
we all pitched in and gave you the Bitcoin to buy him? I won a prize.

1156
01:26:12,374 --> 01:26:15,695
We all sent him Bitcoin to buy it. You got it?

1157
01:26:15,695 --> 01:26:19,235
I won a major award.

1158
01:26:19,615 --> 01:26:20,255
Well, you're welcome.

1159
01:26:20,535 --> 01:26:22,295
And we'll do this again sometime.

1160
01:26:22,655 --> 01:26:28,235
And everybody, I don't want to make people upset if you heard me ranting and raving here.

1161
01:26:28,295 --> 01:26:30,195
It's just because I think this is an important issue.

1162
01:26:30,955 --> 01:26:31,915
Bitcoin is money.

1163
01:26:32,735 --> 01:26:33,515
Remember that.

1164
01:26:33,595 --> 01:26:34,374
Bitcoin is money.

1165
01:26:34,735 --> 01:26:39,915
It's not some fucking art gallery full of JPEGs, pixelated dicks, or cats.

1166
01:26:40,374 --> 01:26:41,374
Bitcoin is money.

1167
01:26:41,855 --> 01:26:43,555
And you were worried about what you said, Bob.

1168
01:26:44,955 --> 01:26:45,395
Whatever.

1169
01:26:45,395 --> 01:26:46,274
I don't care.

1170
01:26:46,655 --> 01:26:47,535
We know that.

1171
01:26:48,635 --> 01:26:50,695
I haven't known you long, but I do know that.

1172
01:26:50,835 --> 01:26:51,855
Thank you so much for your contribution.

1173
01:26:52,015 --> 01:26:53,255
It was really great to have you on this.

1174
01:26:54,675 --> 01:26:55,374
You're welcome.

1175
01:26:55,615 --> 01:26:56,815
You guys have a great day, okay?

1176
01:26:56,915 --> 01:26:57,475
Sounds good.

1177
01:26:58,295 --> 01:26:58,655
Bye.

1178
01:26:58,815 --> 01:26:59,195
Thank you.

1179
01:27:00,435 --> 01:27:01,575
Well, that was good, guys.

1180
01:27:01,755 --> 01:27:02,595
I had a good time.