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Welcome to episode four of the Bitcoin Boomers. I'm Bob Burnett. I'm here with my co-hosts,

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Gary Leland and Lawrence Lippard. And today we have a special guest named John Highbush.

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John is an old friend of mine. We worked together back about 30 years ago while I was at Gateway

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and have kept in touch since we both went into other pastures. In our first episode of

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this series, we had a gentleman by the name of George Bodine, and we introduced him as potentially

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the most interesting man in the world. But I do think we have another candidate here. John,

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and we'll go into the details of his history, but John has had a varied and illustrious career

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in politics, in business, in writing, in philanthropy. We're going to dig into a whole

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bunch of it. But welcome, John. I'm so glad you could join us. Hey, great to be with you, Bob.

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Lawrence and Andy, or Gary. Gary. Gary.

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So, John, I think, you know, I alluded to some of the various hats you've worn

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kind of in your life. And I'm being serious, by the way, not in jest, that you've led

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a tremendously interesting life. I think a lot of us have been blessed to have done so, but

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you've touched a lot of lives and seen a lot of things. You and I having a personal relationship,

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I know some things that maybe some others wouldn't know. But I thought just to kind of

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maybe get people acclimated and introduced to you, we could talk about a few of the things that

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you've seen in your life and no one of the things i i i've always found really interesting is um you

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had the opportunity to have dinner with lady die and not many people have had that we had a date

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with lady oh well excuse me yeah i mean let's upgrade this a little bit yes yes i'm sorry to

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shortchange you, John. So maybe you could talk a little bit about that, how you came to have a

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date with Lady Di and any observations you might have about her. Okay. Where'd you take her? That's

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what I want to know. It's part of the story. No, so I started my career as a young man

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working in the Pentagon and that's a little job, almost a nothing job, but moved on to

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Capitol Hill. And so I was in politics for the first part of my career and jumped from Capitol Hill.

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This is during the Reagan presidency and became Elizabeth Dole's chief of staff when she was

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Secretary of Labor for President George H.W. Bush. And when I was chief of staff at Labor for two

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years, then jumped over to the American Red Cross of all places because Elizabeth was the first

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cabinet secretary to leave the Bush administration, make that jump. And she asked me to come over with

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her. And, you know, I told her at the time, you know, the only thing I know about the Red Cross

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Elizabeth is they taught me how to swim, I think. And that's a good thing to learn.

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Yeah, really. So I was the number three and then the number two under Elizabeth at Red Cross. And she's an incredibly bright Harvard-trained lawyer and incredible personality, hugely smart.

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she did so many things while at the Red Cross

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one of them was she struck up a friendship with Lady Diana

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who at the time was the British

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ambassador for the Red Cross worldwide and Diana was

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as you might remember from that time was all about landmines

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and removing landmines from war torn nations and she came over

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to visit the United States

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at a time when I had just made the move

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from running this big national party committee

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to Gateway computers, in fact.

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And so, Bob, you may, I know you will recall

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our good friend and CEO, Ted White.

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So I was only on the job at Gateway for a couple of months

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and I was in Ted's office and the phone rang.

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Actually, Ted's secretary came in and said,

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John, there's a call for you.

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And I was in this intense discussion with Ted.

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So I'm like, just tell whoever it is, I'll call him back.

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So then she comes back and he goes, no, they really insist you take the call.

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And I started feeling bad because I'm like, Ted's going to get mad here.

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You know, what is it?

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So I said, look, I don't care who it is.

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I'm in a meeting.

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She comes back a third time and she opens the door.

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Ted says, just take the stupid call.

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I pick up the phone and there's nobody on the line, but there's a recording and it's Frank Sinatra singing happy birthday.

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And when it gets to happy birthday, I hear Elizabeth's voice when she says, John.

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And and at the end of the recording, it's another recording from Elizabeth's.

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It says, just wanted to wish you happy birthday.

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And as a birthday present, I'd like to know if you'd like to go on a date with Lady Diana.

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yeah this meeting's over

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and i flew back and for my birthday she she and bob doll her husband were entertaining uh diana

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who was on a visit to dc for the red cross purposes and we all went out for dinner and a date

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And it just blew my mind because I at the time, I don't know how many American males I was single at the time were in love with Lady Diana.

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I sure was. And so that was drooling through most of the dinner.

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And the experience I'll never forget. She had an incredibly bright, great sense of humor, really thoughtful person.

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It was just it was one of the funnest nights of my life, I think.

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that's that's fabulous so that would have been like what made you john like 98 97 98 something

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like that well yeah yeah 97 it was 97. she had just she had gone through a divorce and separated

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and all that and she was she was not yet dating that guy if i had dody if i had um but she was

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It was right in that moment where she was single and fancy free.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Now, John has a lovely wife.

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Her name is Marcella.

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He did very well.

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Don't tell her this lady die story.

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She would not.

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So life was very kind, and she's a wonderful woman.

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I'm sure the right thing happened.

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But imagine how different history might be had this gone a different direction.

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Wow.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And one of the most, I don't know, pretty tough moments is I wasn't that much further.

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I don't know, maybe it was six or eight months.

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I'm not getting, I won't get the dates right.

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But then she dies crashing in that tunnel in Paris.

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It was like, oh, you know, when that kind of thing happens.

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and just relatively recently had been with her.

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It was really striking.

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Yeah.

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Now, at the time, John, we were in – were we in San Diego at that point?

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Not yet, no.

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Were you in Poway?

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Still in Sioux City.

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We were still in Sioux City?

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Yeah, yeah.

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We were in Sioux City at that time.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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so um uh larry or gary you got any any uh comments on that i have no comments about lady

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dine except uh that's a great story for sure to be able to say i met elizabeth dole uh one time

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she was here in town for um i can't remember what it was it was a someone there was a senator

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hutchinson i think uh she was here at an event for her i don't know were you with her at that

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No, at that time, when I went from the Red Cross, I got invited to run one of the big national Republican Party committees in Washington, D.C., and I think that's right about the time you probably saw her.

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I ran the committee that raises an enormous amount of money and does candidate selection for the Republicans in the United States Senate.

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And so it's a job you only hold for two years, every election cycle.

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And we succeeded in growing the Republican majority to 55 seats, which at the time was a historic high.

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And with that very same time frame, I was supporting her husband, Bob, who was running for president at the time.

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So, yeah.

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I met him at another function later in the year.

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Both of them, though, and maybe it's because they were politicians, basically.

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But both of them were great people to talk with.

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You bet. You bet.

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I mean, Bob Dole had the highest, best Midwest sense of humor you would ever meet.

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I mean, really an incredible guy.

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But yeah, my job, the first half of my life was just pure politics and nonprofit.

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And then I had, I literally remember when I was chief of staff at Labor, I was meeting with all these major business figures, you know, the CEO of McDonald's and all the rest.

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And I sat there during the conversation with one of them thinking, you know what, this is interesting. I don't know the first thing about business. I mean, I knew politics and all the rest, but this is a huge hole in my resume.

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And I so and that's when I had all these job offers to be a lobbyist in D.C., but Gateway called me and I thought, what is this?

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Who's that? You know, well, this little computer startup in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa.

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And I said, I got to check this out. And that's that's how I got introduced to the tech space and business.

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And, you know, the rest is history. And I guess Bob, that's how you met Bob.

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Yeah. Right. Right. That's where John and I intersected. And, you know, I think it's really cool, John. I don't know that I've ever heard you say what you just said, which was that you had that realization that that you you didn't understand and then have this experience in the business side.

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And, you know, I think that's one of the huge problems with the political base today is, you know, I do have to interface in my current role with lots of people in Washington.

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And it is shocking how little business acumen they have, how little understanding of the way business really works.

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And yet they're creating the regulations, they're creating the laws, and it's scary as shit.

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Yeah, you bet it is.

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And, you know, to some extent, Bob, that's in part a matter of age.

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And I say that because, you know, when I was 25 years old as a legislative director working on Capitol Hill, I succeeded in killing a defense platform, a weapons system, put tens of thousands of people out of business.

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$5 billion, you know, went away. You know, I mean, there, when you're, those jobs at a very

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young age, you get placed with an enormous amount of responsibility and you don't even barely

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understand the world right near you, much less, you know, everything around you. And it's, and so

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there's a, at a young age, you have a lot of power, but not a lot of knowledge. And, you know,

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Of course, you gain knowledge as you move forward, but so much of our, you know, many, many, many of the people that have exceeded to the highest level in politics have never worked a day in their life outside of public office.

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And, you know, they take tours of business.

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They don't understand them.

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You know, so it's a real flaw in our system.

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I'm not sure how to fix it.

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I definitely support term limits, you know, because if we could,

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there's just too much power concentration and people wanting to spend their

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career in Washington rather than, you know,

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actually go out and be a real person somewhere.

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Well, John, since you've been in that field, I guess,

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do you think that's ever going to be possible to get term limits since they

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have to vote on like cutting their careers out?

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You know, I'll put it this way. See, I've always been right of center on the conservative end of the political spectrum.

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And I've worked for members of Congress and in administrations where if we could cut federal government spending in half, I'm in.

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You know, how do we get there, right?

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And because it's the national debt and what it has done to this nation, the whole monetary system, everything, it's just it is so extremely flawed.

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And the problem is, if you're an average member of Congress or the Senate, there's nothing in it for you to cut spending.

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I mean, it's you know, it puts you in trouble during election time.

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And so they accumulate this power by continuing to give away, you know, spend beyond our means.

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and so now we've got a $37 trillion national debt.

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I think term limits come around

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when this nation ends up upside down

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into some kind of a revolution

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where people have just frankly had enough.

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I mean, and do I see that day in the near term?

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No, but that is definitely where we're heading.

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We are heading off a cliff, a fiscal cliff

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and it's because there's no discipline in the system.

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We all agree strongly.

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I don't think there's anyone here who disagrees with you.

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Yeah, it's important.

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We've got to reset it.

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John, I'm curious, I was doing the research on your background, and I noticed a strong

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connection to Reagan, who I admire, and to Nancy Reagan as well.

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Can you kind of walk us through some of that, just because I'd love to hear the first-hand

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stories of the two of them.

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You know what I mean?

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You must have seen things that the three of us would never have seen.

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Yeah, sure.

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Sure. First, while I've been to the White House hundreds of times, I never worked directly for Ronald Reagan.

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I was I got now I met him many times and was in meetings with him and I worked a lot for Mrs. Reagan.

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But on Capitol Hill, the congressman I worked for, he got swept in on Reagan's coattails in 1980, just like many others did.

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And we had this fairly liberal district, which was not easy to get reelected in.

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Where was it? What state was it from?

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Fifth District of Oregon.

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So that Portland suburbs down through Salem, the Willamette Valley, that whole area.

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And so to be pro-Reagan and pro-Reagan economics at the time was a near death sentence.

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But that's what we were. Not at all. Yeah. So I spent eight years in a touch and go situation where, you know, every two years you thought I'm going to be out of a job because he was, you know, he voted consistently with Reagan.

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And Reagan was all about less taxes, less regulation, cut federal spending and strong defense.

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That wasn't what Oregon wanted, that was for sure.

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So anyways, my first day on the job as a young kid on Capitol Hill, I got to run across the street and watch Reagan hold up his hand, take the oath of office.

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And then my last day on Capitol Hill, I got invited down to the White House, shake his hand and watch him get on the helicopter.

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And they circled the city a couple of times before he went back west.

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But I had been engaged in many, many issues that Reagan was involved in.

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So having been around him on the legislative side, I got to know him, Mrs. Reagan.

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And so then I went off of my career thinking, well, that's probably the end of my Reagan connection.

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But after I left Gateway and did some other things, Mrs. Reagan called me and said, hey, John, would you consider running the Reagan Library?

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And I was living in La Jolla at the time.

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And I thought first, I was with my son.

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We were in a toy store.

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He's like five years old screaming.

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Hi, John, this is Nancy Reagan.

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And I said, yeah, right.

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Then there was silence.

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So this might really be, it kind of sounded like her.

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So they said, no, I'd like you to consider moving up to L.A.

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I was living in La Jolla.

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Consider moving up here and run the Reagan Library.

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I said, well, Mrs. Reagan can ask you one question.

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Would you consider moving the Reagan Library to La Jolla?

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I just didn't want to move.

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And she said, no.

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Okay.

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Six months later, there I was moving to L.A.

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and running the Reagan Library.

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And when you run the Reagan Library, between Mrs. Reagan and everybody

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and anybody that ever worked for them, they go through there.

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I mean, it's just a Reagan fest.

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So I spent 13 years doing that.

216
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Oh, wow.

217
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:35,580
Okay.

218
00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:37,820
That's where some of these stories come in.

219
00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:45,940
You know, you were talking before we went on air about finding a vial of Reagan's blood.

220
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I mean, that was kind of a unique situation.

221
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And I fought my tail off to make sure we fixed that.

222
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And we did.

223
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But it took a lot of effort.

224
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Maybe tell that story.

225
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Yeah, John, tell that story.

226
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Well, you might remember when Reagan was the assassin, when Hinckley attempted to assassinate him in Washington, D.C., outside the hotel.

227
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Reagan didn't know he was shot.

228
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He got shoved in the limousine and he thought he might have broke the Secret Service agent

229
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might have broken a rib when he pushed him in.

230
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And he just said, let's get back to the White House.

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And then the Secret Service agent noticed that blood was starting to form on his lips.

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And he said, bullshit, we're going straight to GW Hospital.

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And they went into the hospital.

234
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So when Reagan, they pulled the bullet out of him and he had lost, believe this or not, he had lost one half of his blood by the time they got up to the table.

235
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Yeah.

236
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So there was plenty of blood to go around.

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There was a vial of blood that they took for testing purposes to determine what he had in the system and that sort of thing.

238
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And over the, that blood got put in a storage facility and over the years kind of got forgotten.

239
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And then a nurse found it and stole it and took it home.

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And she passed away.

241
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And then her son found it.

242
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And her son decides he wants to sell it on eBay.

243
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And this was not a good situation.

244
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Mrs. Reagan called me and said, have you read this story about Ronnie's blood?

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And I said, yeah.

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She said, you're going to go get it.

247
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And we had, I mean, lots of lawyers, lots of threats, you know, I mean, we came after

248
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them and they voluntarily gave it up.

249
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They got so scared of what might occur.

250
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:55,598
And so that blood now is in the safe that in my old office at the Reagan Library It just would have been ridiculous You know you can let something like that happen So did they give it up like no problems They just said oh here the blood

251
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Or did it take a lot of time?

252
00:20:57,158 --> 00:21:00,678
It took about a week of lawyers with big, sharp fangs, you know.

253
00:21:03,838 --> 00:21:06,678
Yeah, it's just fascinating.

254
00:21:07,098 --> 00:21:11,638
I think, by the way, if you're out there,

255
00:21:11,638 --> 00:21:13,778
you've never been to the Reagan Library,

256
00:21:14,218 --> 00:21:15,678
It's a phenomenal facility.

257
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The work that John did to build it, I've had the pleasure of going there and getting a tour from John

258
00:21:23,978 --> 00:21:28,818
and kind of going even into some rooms and things that maybe not everybody gets to go to.

259
00:21:29,098 --> 00:21:31,178
And just absolutely fascinating.

260
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And whether you're a fan of Reagan or not, I happen to be.

261
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But whether you're a fan or not, it's a major part of American history.

262
00:21:38,738 --> 00:21:46,799
and it's just hard not to even walk through those halls and not kind of just feel the vibe, you know,

263
00:21:46,838 --> 00:21:49,098
and it must have been pretty cool to go there every day, John.

264
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Yeah, it really was.

265
00:21:50,658 --> 00:21:53,598
I mean, and the thing is, when you hear the word library, you know,

266
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you just think some big place with a lot of books on the shelves.

267
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It's just so much more than that.

268
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It's an enormous museum.

269
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There's, you know, you climb aboard Air Force One and take a tour of it.

270
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You know, you can, there's events and special exhibits and concerts and presidential debates.

271
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I mean, it's a very, very active cultural center, you know, where many, many things happen.

272
00:22:17,858 --> 00:22:22,838
And it's the most visited of all the presidential libraries by like three to one.

273
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And Air Force One is inside the museum.

274
00:22:27,358 --> 00:22:27,958
Yeah, yeah.

275
00:22:28,058 --> 00:22:29,698
You guys remember Boone Pickens?

276
00:22:30,478 --> 00:22:30,958
Yeah, sure.

277
00:22:31,218 --> 00:22:31,498
Yes.

278
00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:40,539
Yeah, well, Boone wrote a $50 million check to put a big glass case around Air Force One so that the library could accept the plane from the Air Force.

279
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:44,858
Boone was on the board of the Reagan Foundation at the time.

280
00:22:45,998 --> 00:22:47,058
How did they get it there?

281
00:22:47,198 --> 00:22:48,358
I never asked that question.

282
00:22:48,358 --> 00:22:54,078
Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting because that it's there.

283
00:22:54,299 --> 00:23:02,498
There were two Air Force Ones during Reagan's time, both of them 707s.

284
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And this one was essentially being surplused.

285
00:23:07,558 --> 00:23:09,638
It had finally reached the end of its useful life.

286
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:18,778
But every president from Reagan, actually from Lyndon Johnson on to George W. Bush has flown aboard that aircraft.

287
00:23:19,418 --> 00:23:29,118
And we were crafty enough to get the Senate to appropriate the funds to allow the Air Force to surplus.

288
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And then we had to buy the plane and build all this stuff, you know, around it.

289
00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:41,498
And well worth it because something like 30 percent of all visitors to the Reagan Library come specifically to get aboard Air Force One.

290
00:23:41,858 --> 00:23:46,778
Sure. So. So were a lot of other libraries fighting for that plane if so many presidents had been in it?

291
00:23:47,338 --> 00:23:52,998
Other museums. And Bob, to your question, how big.

292
00:23:53,478 --> 00:23:56,978
So its last flight was out to an Air Force base here in California.

293
00:23:56,978 --> 00:24:00,758
They took the wings off. They took off the tail. They flew it in pieces.

294
00:24:00,758 --> 00:24:06,438
They had to shut down I-5 and, you know, it was really something.

295
00:24:06,698 --> 00:24:08,618
But, you know, it took about a year to reassemble.

296
00:24:08,998 --> 00:24:13,778
And now, if you just charge up the batteries and put gas in it, you can fly it away.

297
00:24:14,838 --> 00:24:18,558
It was restored by GE and Boeing to flying conditions.

298
00:24:19,098 --> 00:24:19,558
Interesting.

299
00:24:20,658 --> 00:24:21,058
Yeah.

300
00:24:22,578 --> 00:24:23,478
That's fabulous.

301
00:24:24,278 --> 00:24:28,578
You know, the great thing about this conversation, we haven't talked a lot about economics.

302
00:24:28,578 --> 00:24:31,938
because I was thinking I was going to tell you guys,

303
00:24:32,138 --> 00:24:35,778
I know you all know economics backwards, forwards.

304
00:24:36,299 --> 00:24:39,218
When I'm thinking about starting a GoFundMe campaign

305
00:24:39,218 --> 00:24:43,998
for me to make up for my lack of knowledge in economics.

306
00:24:44,398 --> 00:24:47,418
So if you guys would be interested in contributing to that.

307
00:24:49,878 --> 00:24:50,398
Yes.

308
00:24:50,558 --> 00:24:52,258
You need to make that for Bitcoin.

309
00:24:52,258 --> 00:24:53,658
On the monitors.

310
00:24:54,438 --> 00:24:54,578
Yeah.

311
00:24:54,578 --> 00:25:05,938
I'll send you one too.

312
00:25:06,598 --> 00:25:09,958
I'll send you Bitcoin and an American dream if Mel will give me that address.

313
00:25:10,098 --> 00:25:10,738
So you'll get another.

314
00:25:13,618 --> 00:25:18,658
If you probably read 10 books, you'll be 80% of where you need to be.

315
00:25:18,658 --> 00:25:25,039
I mean, well, if you could say the creature from Gretchen from Jekyll Island by Edmund Griffith.

316
00:25:25,358 --> 00:25:27,638
You know that book? Nope. That's a must.

317
00:25:29,298 --> 00:25:32,758
It's on the creation of the Fed. It's basically the creation of the Fed.

318
00:25:32,878 --> 00:25:38,158
You know, I don't know how much Bob told you about us, but, you know, as you know, we're all Bitcoiners.

319
00:25:38,158 --> 00:25:49,598
And, you know, our belief and my belief, and I think Bob's and Gary's too, is that really the monetary system is what's led to the broken nature of our country today.

320
00:25:49,898 --> 00:25:58,658
You know, the system is set up to benefit, you know, the politicians and the banks and the Federal Reserve are all kind of a cabal.

321
00:25:58,818 --> 00:26:03,238
And they got together and they rigged the system in their favor.

322
00:26:03,238 --> 00:26:05,058
And that's why we have the wealth inequality.

323
00:26:05,058 --> 00:26:08,238
and that's why we have 30% interest rates

324
00:26:08,238 --> 00:26:11,238
and that's why, it's really why America's not,

325
00:26:11,438 --> 00:26:13,178
you know, the America that we all grew up in.

326
00:26:13,238 --> 00:26:14,338
I don't know where you grew up, John.

327
00:26:14,418 --> 00:26:15,278
Where did you grow up?

328
00:26:15,318 --> 00:26:16,198
What area of the country were you in?

329
00:26:17,098 --> 00:26:19,478
McLean, Virginia, right outside Washington, D.C.

330
00:26:19,778 --> 00:26:21,039
Yeah, I grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

331
00:26:21,178 --> 00:26:22,258
I think Bob grew up in Wisconsin.

332
00:26:22,418 --> 00:26:22,678
I'm not sure.

333
00:26:22,738 --> 00:26:23,558
Gary, where did you grow up?

334
00:26:25,498 --> 00:26:26,738
Charleston, South Carolina.

335
00:26:27,298 --> 00:26:29,958
Yeah, I mean, as we all recall,

336
00:26:30,118 --> 00:26:32,238
I mean, that was really a vibrant middle class

337
00:26:32,238 --> 00:26:33,118
when we were growing up.

338
00:26:33,118 --> 00:26:34,638
My dad was a shopkeeper

339
00:26:34,638 --> 00:26:36,558
and the guy who ran Ford

340
00:26:36,558 --> 00:26:37,698
lived down the street from us.

341
00:26:37,758 --> 00:26:39,039
He probably made four or five times

342
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:39,758
what my dad made,

343
00:26:39,818 --> 00:26:41,758
but he didn't make 400 times

344
00:26:41,758 --> 00:26:42,778
what my dad made.

345
00:26:43,478 --> 00:26:44,078
Do you know what I mean?

346
00:26:44,678 --> 00:26:45,498
And it was just,

347
00:26:46,158 --> 00:26:46,498
you know,

348
00:26:46,558 --> 00:26:48,078
it was just a fairer,

349
00:26:48,078 --> 00:26:49,618
more balanced system.

350
00:26:50,318 --> 00:26:51,518
Probably the biggest crime

351
00:26:51,518 --> 00:26:52,858
of our lives

352
00:26:52,858 --> 00:26:54,498
that I know I remember,

353
00:26:54,638 --> 00:26:55,378
and you probably do too,

354
00:26:55,458 --> 00:26:56,318
you're probably similar ages,

355
00:26:56,998 --> 00:26:57,918
was Nixon going off

356
00:26:57,918 --> 00:26:59,058
the gold standard in 71.

357
00:26:59,198 --> 00:26:59,998
That was a really,

358
00:27:00,178 --> 00:27:01,078
really bad thing.

359
00:27:01,838 --> 00:27:01,978
I mean,

360
00:27:02,018 --> 00:27:03,778
when we abandoned sound money

361
00:27:03,778 --> 00:27:09,818
in 1971. That was the beginning of the end. Now, we had enough institutional momentum because,

362
00:27:09,998 --> 00:27:14,638
you know, in 46, we stood at the top of the world having won World War II that, you know,

363
00:27:14,818 --> 00:27:20,558
and all the other countries were destroyed. So, you know, we coasted on that momentum for a long,

364
00:27:20,658 --> 00:27:25,758
long, long time. But, you know, the rot and the creep just came in and pretty soon,

365
00:27:26,458 --> 00:27:31,598
you know, you had Cheney saying deficits don't matter and you had politicians saying, you know,

366
00:27:31,598 --> 00:27:34,498
we got to go make the Middle East safe so we can grab all their oil.

367
00:27:35,218 --> 00:27:38,618
The next thing you know, you've spent $8 trillion and maimed a lot of people.

368
00:27:38,958 --> 00:27:41,858
And, you know, it's just, it's all, it's all frigging tragic.

369
00:27:42,318 --> 00:27:43,778
It's absolutely tragic.

370
00:27:43,998 --> 00:27:48,058
And, you know, I know that in my case, I think really in all three of our cases,

371
00:27:48,078 --> 00:27:53,478
we're all working and supporting Bitcoin because we really believe that Bitcoin is the way out of this thing.

372
00:27:53,478 --> 00:27:57,358
If we go back to a sound money standard, and that could involve gold, by the way, too.

373
00:27:57,358 --> 00:28:03,998
gold is the way we like to look at it is gold is analog sound money and bitcoin is digital sound

374
00:28:03,998 --> 00:28:08,798
money and both of them have the advantage of being distinct from the government the reason the

375
00:28:08,798 --> 00:28:12,638
government's gotten away with all this stuff and it's become so out of control as you alluded to

376
00:28:12,638 --> 00:28:19,598
earlier is that they can just they can print money into existence and and so the temptation to do

377
00:28:19,598 --> 00:28:26,078
that is so large and they do it and that keeps them in power and and you know the cost they don't see

378
00:28:26,078 --> 00:28:32,758
the cost, but the cost is the working class man or woman who goes to the grocery store

379
00:28:32,758 --> 00:28:38,458
and suddenly ground beef is $9 instead of $2 because of all the inflation.

380
00:28:38,458 --> 00:28:40,918
So it's really problematic.

381
00:28:40,918 --> 00:28:44,158
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.

382
00:28:44,158 --> 00:28:56,018
I remember I was on the budget committee staff in Congress and at the time the federal budget

383
00:28:56,018 --> 00:29:05,698
deficit was nearing this all-time high of several hundred billion. And the national debt is not yet

384
00:29:05,698 --> 00:29:12,338
one trillion. We could eyeball it and see in three or four years if the spending kept on the

385
00:29:12,338 --> 00:29:17,158
path it was. It was going to be a trillion. And that just was a mind blower. And now you think

386
00:29:17,158 --> 00:29:25,358
about where we are today. It's absurd. Of course it is. In the book, I go through that. I remember

387
00:29:25,358 --> 00:29:31,538
Remember how everyone was down on Reagan for the deficits and just how irresponsible the Reagan deficits were?

388
00:29:31,598 --> 00:29:33,498
And they were $100, $200 billion.

389
00:29:34,218 --> 00:29:35,878
That was quaint by comparison.

390
00:29:36,618 --> 00:29:39,558
And he also got a lot of real GDP growth.

391
00:29:39,698 --> 00:29:44,238
I mean, there were a few years in there where he grew 4%, 5%, 6% a year as a result of that.

392
00:29:44,358 --> 00:29:46,358
And that's what led to the failure of the Soviet Union.

393
00:29:46,558 --> 00:29:50,498
So one could actually make an argument that it did make sense to deficit spend there.

394
00:29:50,498 --> 00:29:55,978
The problem is guys like Dick Cheney and other guys picked up on it and said, hey, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

395
00:29:56,858 --> 00:29:57,138
Yeah.

396
00:29:57,718 --> 00:29:58,398
They stepped in.

397
00:29:59,518 --> 00:30:00,258
No, yeah.

398
00:30:00,318 --> 00:30:06,658
In fact, in fact, if you look back at the Reagan years, just like you said, people say, well, he didn't cut the deficit.

399
00:30:07,238 --> 00:30:09,898
No, but he did something that was unprecedented at the time.

400
00:30:10,038 --> 00:30:13,578
He cut the rate of growth of federal spending.

401
00:30:14,038 --> 00:30:15,618
That was like the best you could do, right?

402
00:30:15,638 --> 00:30:17,778
Because Reagan never owned the Congress.

403
00:30:17,778 --> 00:30:24,038
He had Democrats were in charge of the House of Representatives all eight years of his presidency.

404
00:30:24,938 --> 00:30:26,358
I had two.

405
00:30:26,958 --> 00:30:27,438
Yeah, yeah.

406
00:30:27,738 --> 00:30:31,338
Was he the chairman of the House?

407
00:30:32,058 --> 00:30:34,718
Yeah, it was Tip O'Neill and then Jim Wright, who was speaking.

408
00:30:34,718 --> 00:30:35,538
Yeah, right.

409
00:30:36,298 --> 00:30:38,918
Everything was a compromise, right?

410
00:30:38,978 --> 00:30:42,618
So the best you could do was cut the rate of growth of the size of the federal government.

411
00:30:42,698 --> 00:30:46,298
You couldn't cut the government size itself.

412
00:30:46,298 --> 00:30:52,798
Now, Trump's been trying to do it, but, you know, even there, there are all sorts of puts and takes.

413
00:30:53,098 --> 00:30:55,838
And, you know, we're still on this terrible path.

414
00:30:56,718 --> 00:31:07,758
If I remember correctly, Reagan was, and I was just going to say, if I remember correctly, wasn't Reagan super big on trying to get to the line item veto, which he never could get?

415
00:31:08,178 --> 00:31:08,418
Yeah.

416
00:31:08,678 --> 00:31:11,318
I think that would make an astounding difference.

417
00:31:11,318 --> 00:31:38,638
Yeah, well, go back to the fundamental of all fundamentals. Medicine would just get a true balanced budget act passed. You know, but now we're so far off the cliff. I mean, to balance the federal budget, it would take like Bitcoin sized, you know, value and any remarkable, we'd have to cut half of the federal budget as exists today.

418
00:31:38,638 --> 00:31:48,858
You know, it's one of the good macro analysts that we follow says you basically have to cut Social Security, Medicare and defense spending by 50 percent for the next 15 years.

419
00:31:49,378 --> 00:31:50,378
Good luck with that.

420
00:31:51,658 --> 00:31:53,138
Yeah. Well, here's another one.

421
00:31:53,138 --> 00:31:55,698
In in in two years.

422
00:31:56,738 --> 00:32:07,178
Our interest payment on the debt alone is going to exceed all the money we spend on all discretionary programs and all of our defense budget.

423
00:32:07,178 --> 00:32:16,158
Yeah. And then by 2050, interest on the debt alone will exceed the entire federal budget.

424
00:32:16,158 --> 00:32:36,018
You know, what I think is what I think this this review of kind of where we were in the Reagan era and and comparisons where we are now is really important because I think a lot of younger people.

425
00:32:37,058 --> 00:32:40,898
And even older people probably have no concept as like, how did we get here?

426
00:32:40,898 --> 00:32:51,058
And, you know, Larry, for us in the kind of coming from the Bitcoin world and that have have really kind of dug into economics, 71 was a big deal.

427
00:32:51,058 --> 00:32:55,498
Like the the the the Nixon removal of us from the gold standard.

428
00:32:56,498 --> 00:32:58,738
Well, that was a removal, Bob.

429
00:32:58,898 --> 00:33:01,278
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

430
00:33:01,278 --> 00:33:11,298
He's temporarily suspending the redemption of dollars for gold was how it was categorized or how he stated.

431
00:33:13,058 --> 00:33:20,518
But I think what's interesting about Reagan, you know, since we're kind of focused there, was that happened in 71.

432
00:33:21,958 --> 00:33:27,578
Then by the late 70s, we have Carter, the Carter administration.

433
00:33:28,038 --> 00:33:30,238
We have inflation running out of control.

434
00:33:30,238 --> 00:33:44,998
It kind of was the foreshadow of kind of what was going to happen, like this chaos, because now the relationship of really all responsibility was gone and accountability.

435
00:33:45,498 --> 00:33:49,438
John, there's a guy in the Bitcoin world that his name's Jack Mallor.

436
00:33:49,478 --> 00:33:53,878
He's a young guy, kind of one of the guys I think that a lot of us find promising about the future.

437
00:33:54,078 --> 00:33:55,978
I don't know. He's maybe in his early 30s.

438
00:33:55,978 --> 00:33:58,898
But he has this phrase that I give him a lot of credit for.

439
00:33:58,898 --> 00:34:03,198
And he says, no man should have to work for what another man can print.

440
00:34:04,098 --> 00:34:08,419
And I think it's a wonderful way of categorizing it.

441
00:34:08,439 --> 00:34:12,098
And what we've done in this case, the man is the government.

442
00:34:12,098 --> 00:34:21,058
So, you know, at that point, fiscal responsibility became completely it really didn't matter anymore.

443
00:34:21,058 --> 00:34:27,718
Right. I mean, tax to a certain degree, tax revenue didn't even matter that they could print whatever they wanted.

444
00:34:27,718 --> 00:34:41,198
And the U.S. has this strange, not strange, but very preferred position, too, that because the rest of the world is dependent on the dollar, it's the reserve currency, we kind of export inflation.

445
00:34:41,198 --> 00:34:59,778
So when we grow the money supply, we feel it, but about 80% of the impact of that growth is actually felt outside our borders, not inside, which I find kind of immoral and ethical that that be the case.

446
00:34:59,778 --> 00:35:07,158
How do you think, John, if Reagan, ask you to go inside Reagan's head for a minute here.

447
00:35:07,658 --> 00:35:20,578
So if Reagan was president right now and he was looking at this situation, how do you think he would react to $38 trillion and at least the fiscal side of this?

448
00:35:21,158 --> 00:35:22,218
Yeah, well, okay.

449
00:35:22,358 --> 00:35:25,538
So let's wind the clock back first.

450
00:35:25,538 --> 00:35:37,298
when Reagan came into office post-Carter, as you say, inflation was 13.5%. Interest rates were 20%.

451
00:35:38,979 --> 00:35:48,499
Marginal tax rates were 70%. I mean, thank God I wasn't working at the time. I was in

452
00:35:49,058 --> 00:35:54,258
college or something. What did I care? But when Reagan came in office and these kinds of conditions

453
00:35:54,258 --> 00:36:00,479
existed. I don't know how people made it. You know, I mean, so two years later,

454
00:36:01,238 --> 00:36:10,398
Reagan lost 26 Republican seats in the House and a few seats in the Senate. And why is that? You

455
00:36:10,398 --> 00:36:16,419
know, I remember at the time, the mantra was on the Republican side, Reagan was saying, stay the

456
00:36:16,419 --> 00:36:22,439
course, stay the course, you know, fiscal discipline, all that stuff. And the Republicans

457
00:36:22,439 --> 00:36:32,999
Because then Congress was saying, yeah, stay the curse, stay the curse, meaning the pain was so great that they all thought they were going to lose because they started voting against this federal spending and what have you.

458
00:36:32,999 --> 00:36:40,218
And Reagan did lose 26 seats. There's a price to be paid by being fiscally disciplined.

459
00:36:40,218 --> 00:36:54,198
Right. It's why you see this to this very day, even Republicans are jumping ship, you know, Trump ship for certain things because they're just trying to preserve their power or preserve, basically preserve their seat in Congress.

460
00:36:54,198 --> 00:37:04,558
So I have, you know, I watched the phenomenon of Trump in the mid 2015s, and I'm now fully convinced myself.

461
00:37:05,198 --> 00:37:12,459
What Trump does is he wakes up in the morning, he goes under the bed, he grabs this binder and it's the Reagan playbook.

462
00:37:12,459 --> 00:37:37,338
I mean, if you think about what Reagan stood for, Trump's trying to do many of those things, a strong national defense, lower taxes, and from a monetary policy standpoint, as you all know, I mean, he's probably the first and only president that has been pro-crypto, pro-Bitcoin.

463
00:37:37,338 --> 00:37:40,419
And he thinks like a fiscal conservative.

464
00:37:40,758 --> 00:37:47,798
Now, does he have the ability to pull it off in the modern day, especially with the complexion of Congress like it is?

465
00:37:48,459 --> 00:37:49,539
Whole nother question.

466
00:37:49,539 --> 00:37:57,578
You know, I mean, it's now almost like it's like become Mount Everest, you know, and not many people have got enough oxygen to make it up there on their own.

467
00:37:57,718 --> 00:38:02,598
So I now put put in a hypothetical, put Reagan in charge.

468
00:38:03,178 --> 00:38:05,858
First, he'd fall over dead at the size of the debt.

469
00:38:05,858 --> 00:38:12,959
I mean, and he would be urging us to cut spending like you can't believe.

470
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:18,858
He'd also be, you know, pushing for, you know, supply side style tax cuts and the rest.

471
00:38:19,019 --> 00:38:22,678
But I genuinely think we're beyond the day when those things can work.

472
00:38:23,499 --> 00:38:25,358
I mean, I really do believe that.

473
00:38:26,138 --> 00:38:30,479
I mean, a lot of people don't want to hear this, but I believe there needs to be a revolution of some kind.

474
00:38:30,479 --> 00:38:38,398
because the situation gets so bad that there's no choice but for everything to be turned upside down.

475
00:38:38,398 --> 00:38:41,939
And maybe that's when there's, you know, Bitcoin has its moment.

476
00:38:42,758 --> 00:38:48,278
Until then, you know, Bob, I'm just trying to do it.

477
00:38:48,278 --> 00:38:52,598
It's not as though Bitcoin doesn't make perfect sense like gold does.

478
00:38:52,598 --> 00:39:07,738
However, I'm trying to understand how do you get there from here with every vested interest, every economic interest in the United States based in the current system?

479
00:39:07,738 --> 00:39:14,598
I don't think it's just going to take a couple pieces of legislation and a president that favors it.

480
00:39:14,598 --> 00:39:24,338
I mean, you're asking everybody in Washington who's built their whole careers on power and controlling the monetary policy to say, give up and go home.

481
00:39:24,979 --> 00:39:26,999
And I don't think that's going to be a legal product.

482
00:39:29,618 --> 00:39:32,378
John, do you think Reagan would be a Bitcoiner?

483
00:39:33,598 --> 00:39:36,678
Yeah, I do. I do. Because he was always, I mean, think about this.

484
00:39:36,678 --> 00:39:41,118
let's take technology on the, on the,

485
00:39:41,138 --> 00:39:45,278
what people used to call Star Wars. Yeah.

486
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:46,298
I mean,

487
00:39:46,338 --> 00:39:49,838
Ronald Reagan had visions of golden dome and everything that we're now

488
00:39:49,838 --> 00:39:52,718
spending money on 40 years ago. I mean,

489
00:39:52,738 --> 00:39:57,419
so he was a great outside the box thinker and he was, you know,

490
00:39:57,439 --> 00:40:01,118
he was the one that he invested in enormous amount of funds and modernizing

491
00:40:01,118 --> 00:40:04,419
the American military through technology. And so, yeah,

492
00:40:04,419 --> 00:40:05,898
I do think he'd be a Bitcoin.

493
00:40:06,178 --> 00:40:10,919
I look under number Paul Volcker was the head of the Federal Reserve under Reagan.

494
00:40:11,138 --> 00:40:14,678
And with the interest rates as high as it were, Reagan kind of went like this.

495
00:40:14,698 --> 00:40:18,618
He's like the Fed has to, you know, we don't have any choice.

496
00:40:20,298 --> 00:40:21,398
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

497
00:40:21,398 --> 00:40:27,778
We've tightened monetary policy and put people's lives in misery for a couple of years to get inflation down.

498
00:40:27,778 --> 00:40:31,738
And once we do that, we can get on back on a better path.

499
00:40:31,858 --> 00:40:33,578
And, you know, that is what happened.

500
00:40:33,578 --> 00:40:37,318
However, Ray, even, you know, post Ray.

501
00:40:37,878 --> 00:40:41,198
It was scary for the first couple of years because he didn't know if it was going to work.

502
00:40:41,298 --> 00:40:45,178
And it's like you say, that was the stay the stay the curse part.

503
00:40:45,898 --> 00:40:46,118
Yeah.

504
00:40:46,118 --> 00:40:51,598
Yeah, I think we bought a condo then and interest was 17 percent, if I remember correctly or something.

505
00:40:51,658 --> 00:40:54,238
Those 20 percent were going to put my dad out of business.

506
00:40:54,858 --> 00:41:00,258
The thing I love about Reagan was he always, you know, jolly and happy and positive.

507
00:41:00,258 --> 00:41:05,218
but he always understood that government was the fundamental problem.

508
00:41:06,738 --> 00:41:15,778
He came out of that Goldwater, libertarian, West Coast view that who needs a federal government?

509
00:41:16,338 --> 00:41:20,898
To the degree we have one, let's rein it in as much as possible.

510
00:41:23,298 --> 00:41:29,939
With the exception of standing up to the Russians, which one can argue that was a good use of

511
00:41:29,939 --> 00:41:31,419
federal government time and resources.

512
00:41:32,318 --> 00:41:33,039
Yeah, yeah.

513
00:41:33,078 --> 00:41:34,178
In fact, you just almost

514
00:41:34,178 --> 00:41:45,957
stated the line exactly That the most famous line from Reagan first inaugural address which was government is the problem I can remember Is that exactly what you said Yeah I thought it was something similar to that

515
00:41:47,037 --> 00:41:47,737
Yeah, yeah.

516
00:41:47,757 --> 00:41:52,517
I think he said the scariest words are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

517
00:41:52,517 --> 00:41:56,177
Yeah, yeah.

518
00:41:56,177 --> 00:42:18,617
Yeah. You know, on the economic side with Reagan, I think, I mean, as many as remarkably positive some of Trump's actions have been, I don't think he's still not done something that has been as big as defeat the entire Soviet Union.

519
00:42:18,617 --> 00:42:29,337
Right. I mean, that changed the world forever, or at least hopefully forever. And the way he did it was, yes, through I mean, it was was an economic policy.

520
00:42:29,517 --> 00:42:33,237
Yeah, in a way it was, because what he essentially did was he looked at Gorbachev.

521
00:42:33,337 --> 00:42:41,637
He said, we have economic might. We're going to use it and we're going to build, you know, a defense system like you've never seen.

522
00:42:42,077 --> 00:42:46,897
And that was the moment when the Soviets just said, we can't afford this. You know, we give up.

523
00:42:46,897 --> 00:42:50,717
that's essentially the play, but it did cost some money.

524
00:42:50,797 --> 00:42:54,317
We had to rebuild American defenses to make it happen.

525
00:42:54,917 --> 00:43:00,017
You know, when Russia was invading Afghanistan back during that time period,

526
00:43:00,017 --> 00:43:07,317
I guess, basically, I always felt like the end was coming for them soon

527
00:43:07,317 --> 00:43:09,417
because they were overexpanded,

528
00:43:09,457 --> 00:43:12,917
that it would be impossible to keep up with what was going on financially.

529
00:43:13,057 --> 00:43:16,877
Do you ever feel like the United States is in that situation right now?

530
00:43:16,897 --> 00:43:26,637
that we are overexpanded? Carbon copy. Yep. Well, at least during the, you know, roughly the last

531
00:43:26,637 --> 00:43:36,217
10, 12 years, the whole Iraq, Afghanistan, 4A, I mean, you know, what we should have done,

532
00:43:36,217 --> 00:43:42,897
it was, you know, we, you know, we should have gotten a lot of bombers and over a 10-year period

533
00:43:42,897 --> 00:43:50,677
It just struck one time after another from the air and killed whatever we saw moving that looked anything like Osama bin Laden.

534
00:43:50,817 --> 00:43:54,917
But we sure as hell should not have put boots on the ground in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

535
00:43:55,677 --> 00:43:57,457
I mean, a complete waste of time and money.

536
00:43:57,457 --> 00:44:00,557
And we were just way overextended on that front.

537
00:44:00,717 --> 00:44:04,617
And it probably added a couple trillion dollars for our national debt.

538
00:44:04,977 --> 00:44:11,897
So now military strategists, military strategists would say, well, you can't beat those guys unless you have boots on the ground.

539
00:44:11,897 --> 00:44:15,617
And I think our posture should, when we're not looking at beating, we're looking at punishing them.

540
00:44:16,517 --> 00:44:18,357
Yeah, and or just keep them out of our country.

541
00:44:19,197 --> 00:44:19,637
Yeah.

542
00:44:20,037 --> 00:44:31,037
Do you look, John, at the way that Trump is handling Venezuela, which, you know, hitting the drug boats, seizing the tankers,

543
00:44:31,277 --> 00:44:38,577
obviously kidnapping Maduro as a more economically efficient way of trying to achieve something similar?

544
00:44:38,577 --> 00:44:49,317
Yeah, well, Venice first, there'll be a lot of people I know don't agree with me, but I support every single decision he's made with respect to Venice oil.

545
00:44:50,177 --> 00:44:54,977
And, you know, for lots of reasons, but it's a big national security umbrella.

546
00:44:55,257 --> 00:45:00,697
I mean, there are the greatest transit point from which drugs in South America, Central South America flow.

547
00:45:01,277 --> 00:45:04,457
It kills a lot of people. That's one good reason alone.

548
00:45:04,457 --> 00:45:11,717
The second is they ripped us off. We used to have oil companies down there making money hand over fist, and they took that away from us.

549
00:45:11,717 --> 00:45:32,937
But third, I think people don't really fully understand to the extent that China and Russia and Iran were making the country of Venezuela a platform from which to continue to screw with our national security.

550
00:45:32,937 --> 00:45:35,937
That's the part that I observed.

551
00:45:35,937 --> 00:45:38,937
It reminded me it was like the Cuban Missile Crisis.

552
00:45:38,937 --> 00:45:46,937
I mean, this is a country in our hemisphere that's very close by, and we've got these three state actors that we really don't like taking over.

553
00:45:46,937 --> 00:45:51,937
And I think, you know, some people say Trump struck Venezuela, and I think he did.

554
00:45:51,937 --> 00:45:57,937
I actually think the CIA actually made the call for the Department of Defense.

555
00:45:57,937 --> 00:46:04,217
Yeah, well, remember Trump came right out and said, yeah, well, we're sending the CIA in there.

556
00:46:04,757 --> 00:46:08,377
I mean, he was very bored about it, and he was right.

557
00:46:08,997 --> 00:46:17,417
Well, you know, but we went and kidnapped a president of Panama, and I don't remember this much action or negativity toward capturing him.

558
00:46:17,497 --> 00:46:23,557
And he didn't do near as much as we were seeing from Maduro.

559
00:46:23,557 --> 00:46:24,937
Maduro, yeah.

560
00:46:25,817 --> 00:46:26,137
Yeah.

561
00:46:26,137 --> 00:46:31,937
Yeah. Listen, we're going to act like the superpower we are or we're not.

562
00:46:32,217 --> 00:46:36,637
You know, if our interests are being threatened, we have to act.

563
00:46:36,737 --> 00:46:41,077
And I think Trump understands that he actually does what he says.

564
00:46:41,317 --> 00:46:45,997
I think now, you know, you know, Trump can shoot from the hip rhetorically.

565
00:46:46,237 --> 00:46:51,717
But I think the world now understands that when he says something just like Reagan, he really needs it.

566
00:46:52,077 --> 00:46:53,697
And that's that's good.

567
00:46:53,697 --> 00:46:56,577
I think that's good to keep people on their toes in that regard.

568
00:47:01,057 --> 00:47:22,977
John, I'm curious, you know, one of the, if I can shift just a tiny bit, we, one of the reasons we do this show, and it's called the Bitcoin Boomers, is Gary, Larry, and I, we're within the Bitcoin community and the Bitcoin cohorts, we're, we're kind of the elders to a certain degree.

569
00:47:23,737 --> 00:47:30,417
And there's a couple others, but there frankly aren't many, at least that are prominent and vocal.

570
00:47:32,517 --> 00:47:42,777
And part of what we're here for is to try to get our generation that we share with you a little more involved, a little more engaged.

571
00:47:42,777 --> 00:47:48,257
And, you know, it's hard because Bitcoin is a strange thing.

572
00:47:48,437 --> 00:47:52,077
It's not like a startup company.

573
00:47:52,077 --> 00:48:02,837
It's not we're not we're not like AI. We don't have there's no there's no company like open AI or Grok or Google out championing it.

574
00:48:03,437 --> 00:48:12,477
There is no leader. There's no central authority. And what it often means, I think, is that the narrative.

575
00:48:13,477 --> 00:48:16,717
The proper narrative certainly doesn't get to people.

576
00:48:16,717 --> 00:48:19,677
and in fact the opposite is true

577
00:48:19,677 --> 00:48:23,157
that we've certainly come to find

578
00:48:23,157 --> 00:48:27,157
that over the last decade or so

579
00:48:27,157 --> 00:48:28,957
that the three of us have been involved

580
00:48:28,957 --> 00:48:32,157
that if we look at major media outlets

581
00:48:32,157 --> 00:48:36,017
whether that's CNN or the New York Times

582
00:48:36,017 --> 00:48:37,017
or the Wall Street Journal

583
00:48:37,017 --> 00:48:38,777
they've been adversarial

584
00:48:38,777 --> 00:48:44,997
and so I think one thing

585
00:48:44,997 --> 00:48:51,837
that I would be curious about is, especially given, you know, your extensive background,

586
00:48:52,457 --> 00:48:58,197
the fact that you keep current with world events, you know, how do you perceive Bitcoin and what

587
00:48:58,197 --> 00:49:06,137
kind of things out there make you question it or the things that are unclear to you? Like,

588
00:49:06,817 --> 00:49:11,097
kind of how do you... And in your peer group, I mean, the people you hang out with,

589
00:49:11,097 --> 00:49:16,357
Yeah. You seem to kind of get it, but do you find that to be the case for your peers or not?

590
00:49:17,257 --> 00:49:23,437
Yeah, I have a good buddy who's a home builder, or he tries to be a home builder here in California, which is not easy.

591
00:49:25,237 --> 00:49:36,377
He's told me this story a few times about this friend of his at the time was a billionaire who made his wealth in the gaming industry.

592
00:49:36,377 --> 00:49:40,997
And this was how many years ago?

593
00:49:41,097 --> 00:49:47,537
I guess it's when $10,000 would buy a lot of Bitcoin.

594
00:49:49,197 --> 00:49:51,557
You guys tell me how many years ago that was.

595
00:49:51,617 --> 00:49:53,697
Probably 15, 12 years ago, yeah.

596
00:49:54,157 --> 00:49:54,917
Yeah, okay.

597
00:49:55,237 --> 00:49:58,337
And this guy went to my buddy, the home builder.

598
00:49:58,857 --> 00:50:01,217
He was fairly well off, but he was in some struggle

599
00:50:01,217 --> 00:50:04,577
because there were some issues with permitting and that kind of thing.

600
00:50:04,917 --> 00:50:07,237
So the guy said to him, look, just give me $10,000.

601
00:50:07,677 --> 00:50:09,757
You ought to bet on this thing called Bitcoin.

602
00:50:09,757 --> 00:50:11,957
And my friend Brian's like, what?

603
00:50:12,057 --> 00:50:12,437
What's that?

604
00:50:12,497 --> 00:50:13,497
He said, no, just $10,000.

605
00:50:13,737 --> 00:50:15,377
I'm telling you, you're going to make them, you know.

606
00:50:16,097 --> 00:50:17,797
And Brian said, no, no, no.

607
00:50:17,797 --> 00:50:21,197
I just, I don't have the excess cash at this point.

608
00:50:21,837 --> 00:50:27,157
And so to this day, he's like, he said, how many billion dollars would I be worth?

609
00:50:27,557 --> 00:50:27,957
Yep.

610
00:50:28,437 --> 00:50:29,697
You know, if I had done that.

611
00:50:30,017 --> 00:50:35,997
So there's, in my peer group there, I'll tell you how my peers feel.

612
00:50:36,077 --> 00:50:37,177
They probably feel like me.

613
00:50:37,977 --> 00:50:39,657
We missed the boat, God damn it.

614
00:50:39,757 --> 00:50:45,837
It was like, you know, you know, if you brought it to me today, I'd be in.

615
00:50:46,057 --> 00:50:49,597
But man, you know, it's just it's like it's too late.

616
00:50:50,237 --> 00:50:51,257
Everybody got in early.

617
00:50:52,057 --> 00:50:53,597
You know, they've done wonderfully.

618
00:50:53,677 --> 00:50:57,197
And no matter when they pass, they will have done wonderfully.

619
00:50:57,397 --> 00:50:59,177
Good for them and good for them.

620
00:51:00,277 --> 00:51:03,017
It's just it's like the train that left the state.

621
00:51:03,117 --> 00:51:06,597
It's almost like, Bob, it's like if you weren't into building A.I.

622
00:51:06,597 --> 00:51:10,217
10, 12 years ago, you know, you're way behind the curve now.

623
00:51:10,217 --> 00:51:14,017
Or if you weren't into, would pick an industry in the tech sector.

624
00:51:14,157 --> 00:51:18,217
And, you know, if you didn't get in early, you're not going to, you'll never really be

625
00:51:18,217 --> 00:51:18,617
a winner.

626
00:51:19,017 --> 00:51:22,377
If you were a PC-e-owned company in 2010, you were too late, right?

627
00:51:22,957 --> 00:51:24,097
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

628
00:51:24,097 --> 00:51:29,997
So it's not as though they wouldn't like a lot of it if they could get their hands on

629
00:51:29,997 --> 00:51:31,397
it at some reasonable price.

630
00:51:31,517 --> 00:51:35,237
And I know that the topic would be what's reasonable.

631
00:51:35,237 --> 00:51:43,697
but it's yeah i missed the train you know and yeah it's sad that it's a price bias i mean you know

632
00:51:43,697 --> 00:51:49,817
just to draw a comparison to that i think um amazon is probably the best performing you know

633
00:51:49,817 --> 00:51:53,797
one of the best performing stocks other than nvidia which was just running nuts but but

634
00:51:53,797 --> 00:51:58,437
it comparable to bitcoin is amazon because it came out you know before the gfc in early 2000

635
00:51:58,437 --> 00:52:06,377
when the internet got started and it's up 288 000 from the time and i recall a lot of people you

636
00:52:06,377 --> 00:52:13,697
know in the 2008 period 2010 period 15 they all say oh gosh yeah i wish i'd gotten in on that but

637
00:52:13,697 --> 00:52:17,857
you know you guys have made a ton of money but you're too late well it just kind of kept going

638
00:52:17,857 --> 00:52:26,377
yeah yeah but you know you know people the people who bought at a hundred dollars said the same

639
00:52:26,377 --> 00:52:30,537
thing because they said i could have got this at a nickel and the people who bought it a thousand

640
00:52:30,537 --> 00:52:37,097
dollars said the same thing for a dollar and yeah yeah someone got it for ten thousand someone's got

641
00:52:37,097 --> 00:52:41,897
it for a couple thousand or less and and someday you know it's it's a hundred thousand just under

642
00:52:41,897 --> 00:52:47,017
a hundred thousand a day i mean in 10 years 15 years people say you know you bought your bitcoin

643
00:52:47,017 --> 00:52:54,137
for below a million bucks yeah i bought one exactly yeah you know and it's a million now in fact when

644
00:52:54,137 --> 00:52:58,317
When I sign books at my book conference, when I go to the show to sign books,

645
00:52:58,357 --> 00:53:02,757
I always put the Bitcoin price in there and the date because I want whoever receives the book.

646
00:53:02,837 --> 00:53:07,497
I know their kids will look at that book someday and say, hey, mom or dad met the guy who wrote this thing.

647
00:53:07,497 --> 00:53:10,057
Gosh, when they got this book, it was only $70,000.

648
00:53:11,497 --> 00:53:12,977
It's $3 million today.

649
00:53:13,537 --> 00:53:14,517
That's a good idea, Larry.

650
00:53:16,257 --> 00:53:18,237
It's just going to keep on marching.

651
00:53:18,657 --> 00:53:19,237
You know what I mean?

652
00:53:20,077 --> 00:53:20,237
Yeah.

653
00:53:20,477 --> 00:53:20,717
You know.

654
00:53:21,257 --> 00:53:21,737
Yeah.

655
00:53:21,937 --> 00:53:22,397
I.

656
00:53:22,397 --> 00:53:33,997
or not you know you know i i go ahead john well i was just gonna say i maybe five percent of the

657
00:53:33,997 --> 00:53:40,637
peers i know have been wise enough to figure out a way to make it at least a per some percentage

658
00:53:40,637 --> 00:53:46,717
of their portfolio right you know yeah i'm not gonna miss out on this and they they can afford

659
00:53:46,717 --> 00:53:51,677
to be that diversified and right they'll they'll treat bitcoin just like they would treat gold

660
00:53:51,677 --> 00:53:59,677
you know um but i would say probably the other the impediment to boomers like myself and others in

661
00:53:59,677 --> 00:54:05,677
my peer group um is that you know you're just so damn busy you know like you know for me i'd be

662
00:54:05,677 --> 00:54:11,997
thinking okay if it's at 90 000 today or something i i think in these big round terms like i need to

663
00:54:11,997 --> 00:54:19,837
get one bitcoin right you know i i know i know i know but that's it's like a lack of sophistication

664
00:54:19,837 --> 00:54:27,117
and understanding yeah how you can get in without having to buy one big solid coin you know and yeah

665
00:54:27,117 --> 00:54:32,557
and that's there's there's a price buy it's one of the reasons some of the other cryptos

666
00:54:32,557 --> 00:54:36,957
exist like we are all bitcoin purists like we would say don't mess with any of the other

667
00:54:36,957 --> 00:54:43,877
shit. It's all tainted. But it attracts other people because it might be $3 or $12 or $20.

668
00:54:43,877 --> 00:54:46,497
This is the next Bitcoin. You know what I mean?

669
00:54:46,817 --> 00:54:55,777
Or, yeah. But there is no such thing. But I really appreciate, I think one of the, it's valuable

670
00:54:55,777 --> 00:55:02,397
because we live in a cocoon, John, or in our own echo chamber. It's valuable to hear from

671
00:55:02,397 --> 00:55:09,937
other people because it helps us kind of prioritize how we talk about it. And I think one of the

672
00:55:09,937 --> 00:55:17,017
things I'll offer just a little bit more to what Gary and Larry have said relative to the you're

673
00:55:17,017 --> 00:55:26,037
too late. The first thing is to understand that there's only 21 million Bitcoin. And, you know,

674
00:55:26,077 --> 00:55:31,517
remember when you just said it, like, hey, if I could only get one, like, which would be a little

675
00:55:31,517 --> 00:55:41,117
under $100,000 right now. Well, there's four times more millionaires in the world

676
00:55:41,117 --> 00:55:53,737
than there are Bitcoin in the world. And we're at a point where, and that scarcity can't change.

677
00:55:54,477 --> 00:55:59,597
So it's different than anything else, whether it's a stock or whether it's gold or anything

678
00:55:59,597 --> 00:56:07,497
else. We've never had an asset in the world, other than maybe a Monet painting or a collectible

679
00:56:07,497 --> 00:56:15,897
item, but where a true commodity had a fixed supply. And you could think of it as we're

680
00:56:15,897 --> 00:56:23,437
competing against, remember what I said before, what man should work for what another man can

681
00:56:23,437 --> 00:56:32,937
print, there is no limit on the money printer. So as that printer keeps rolling, and you've even

682
00:56:32,937 --> 00:56:37,957
said it yourself, like we're headed toward a revolution, and whether that's a violent

683
00:56:37,957 --> 00:56:44,877
revolution or an economic catastrophe, you know, or some combination of the two,

684
00:56:45,637 --> 00:56:51,597
it is a separation from that. So the way, you know, and Larry wrote a great book on this, but

685
00:56:51,597 --> 00:56:57,857
we view it as there is no limit. And even if we wanted to put it into current terms,

686
00:56:57,857 --> 00:57:04,877
there's about $90 trillion of assets in the world today. There's only 21 million Bitcoin. So

687
00:57:04,877 --> 00:57:10,677
you could make an argument that the appropriate price for Bitcoin could be as high as $40 million

688
00:57:10,677 --> 00:57:19,897
per Bitcoin. Because that's what 21 million times... It's 900 trillion. Yeah, or divided into that is.

689
00:57:19,897 --> 00:57:36,577
So that's one thing. The second thing I'll say, though, and it's even Bitcoiners miss this a lot, is that there's Bitcoin, the asset, and there's Bitcoin, the monetary system. So Bitcoin is not just an asset. It is an alternative money system.

690
00:57:36,577 --> 00:57:46,197
so um it it gets its valve do you remember metcalf's law john by chance from your computer

691
00:57:46,197 --> 00:57:51,617
days so it's you know the for those that don't know it's the power of a network is equal to the

692
00:57:51,617 --> 00:57:56,997
square of the number of users of the network so it's a it's a term and whether that's cell phones

693
00:57:56,997 --> 00:58:02,317
whether that's personal computers whether that's whatever but it applies to monetary systems too so

694
00:58:02,317 --> 00:58:09,497
So as adoption of Bitcoin increases, the value of the network increases, its usability increases.

695
00:58:10,097 --> 00:58:21,177
And we're at a point in the adoption of Bitcoin as a monetary network where it already moves more value annually than Visa and MasterCard combined.

696
00:58:22,477 --> 00:58:28,737
So very few people probably understand that, that that's how much movement of money.

697
00:58:28,737 --> 00:58:37,257
And it's doing so in a frictionless way. There's no approvers. Right now, at least,

698
00:58:37,377 --> 00:58:42,717
those are very inexpensive transactions. If I had a billion dollars, I could send you a billion

699
00:58:42,717 --> 00:58:50,557
dollars, John, for about $2, and I could do it in 10 minutes. The existing monetary system cannot

700
00:58:50,557 --> 00:58:58,717
compete with that. And if you think about it, we can't even back up a little geopolitically,

701
00:58:58,737 --> 00:59:15,857
And you think about that, what does that mean for a nation state? So like Russia, which when Russia invaded the Ukraine, one of Biden's first actions, I think it was a mistake, was to kick them off of the SWIFT system.

702
00:59:15,857 --> 00:59:21,037
And the reality is all it did is it forced them toward Bitcoin.

703
00:59:21,037 --> 00:59:33,957
The Russians now, their foreign trade minister openly admits that that is a major part of how they do international commerce now is, you know, selling oil and buying oranges using Bitcoin.

704
00:59:36,357 --> 00:59:36,437
Yeah.

705
00:59:36,437 --> 00:59:44,057
Yeah. So the where I'm getting at is where it's at whether it's at the nation state level or the corporate level or the individual level.

706
00:59:45,497 --> 00:59:52,377
The removal of government or an overseer from the process is part of it.

707
00:59:52,457 --> 00:59:55,397
And we'll even use Reagan's words, right? You know, government is the problem.

708
00:59:55,397 --> 00:59:59,657
Well, let's get them the hell out of money and the monetary system.

709
00:59:59,657 --> 01:00:19,837
Yeah, no, I get it. You see, knowing what little I do about where Bitcoin stands in the halls of Congress and halls of government is, you know, I think Bitcoin is absolutely ultimately going to succeed as, you know, its digital gold.

710
01:00:19,837 --> 01:00:25,297
It's an asset. The world will treat it that way. Washington will treat it that way.

711
01:00:26,917 --> 01:00:33,697
Now, I think the industry is in this interesting situation, whichever industry goes through.

712
01:00:33,697 --> 01:00:53,237
And that is, it's looking for nods of approval and respect and, you know, ultimately regulation that allows the system to grow and flourish.

713
01:00:53,237 --> 01:01:06,437
So the good news is it's well on its way towards getting the necessary regulatory framework to thrive.

714
01:01:06,797 --> 01:01:10,157
It's just one of those be careful what you wish for things, right?

715
01:01:10,217 --> 01:01:18,437
Because, you know, in a regulatory framework, you're inviting all sorts of mischief, you know.

716
01:01:18,437 --> 01:01:26,177
And will the industry be happy with how Washington treats it purely from an asset perspective?

717
01:01:26,297 --> 01:01:28,297
How do you tax it? You know, all that stuff.

718
01:01:29,417 --> 01:01:44,577
The Mount Everest that I see is when the Bitcoin wants to move as it wants to, to go from an asset, digital asset, to becoming the money supply.

719
01:01:44,577 --> 01:02:11,097
You know, that's a big term. But in that is because it forces every single player in the current system to see their power. Right. And how do you bring that about? That that's really I mean, because you may have lots of very conservative fiscal restraint Republicans that would say, yeah, we ought to really ought to move to a system that's highly efficient, that doesn't involve the government and the rest of that.

720
01:02:11,097 --> 01:02:16,197
But in saying and doing that, they are giving up, they are ceding power to another.

721
01:02:16,197 --> 01:02:17,197
Absolutely.

722
01:02:17,197 --> 01:02:18,197
Right?

723
01:02:18,197 --> 01:02:21,037
And why do you get elected?

724
01:02:21,037 --> 01:02:23,337
To gain power and to use power.

725
01:02:23,337 --> 01:02:24,337
Right?

726
01:02:24,337 --> 01:02:38,615
So that why I always feel like on its way to becoming truly the money supplier the monetary system it has to achieve something that I don know that any civilization in history has ever achieved at this level

727
01:02:39,535 --> 01:02:41,975
And that's going to be difficult.

728
01:02:42,435 --> 01:02:45,915
I think our view, the way we're going to get there, John, you're right.

729
01:02:45,955 --> 01:02:49,235
They're never going to give it up voluntarily, just like they're never going to enact term limits.

730
01:02:49,235 --> 01:02:53,415
and rather sadly, because it's going to be a painful episode when it happens,

731
01:02:53,615 --> 01:02:56,915
but rather sadly, what's going to happen is the currency is going to fail.

732
01:02:57,755 --> 01:03:00,935
We're going to have a hyperinflation event,

733
01:03:01,435 --> 01:03:06,015
and at that point in time, there'll be a brief period where there's a little bit of chaos,

734
01:03:06,575 --> 01:03:10,135
and then we'll say, okay, what kind of money can we trust,

735
01:03:10,135 --> 01:03:12,395
and the only choices are going to be gold, silver, and Bitcoin.

736
01:03:13,515 --> 01:03:18,875
Yeah, and if the United States currency fails, that means the world's currency fails.

737
01:03:18,875 --> 01:03:38,295
I mean, everybody's so tethered to it. Right. And so that's why I, you know, I've always people will say, you know, well, this country is so divided, right and left where, you know, everybody's gone to their distinct corners. There's no middle anymore. How do we get Americans to rally with each other and unite?

738
01:03:38,295 --> 01:03:49,835
It's like, yeah, well, what history has proven is you need some absolutely tremendous calamity like a World War II or Pearl Harbor.

739
01:03:50,515 --> 01:03:55,715
Something that's what it takes to get people's frameworks completely altered to change.

740
01:03:56,555 --> 01:03:58,955
Everybody got together after 9-11, John.

741
01:03:59,755 --> 01:04:00,015
Yeah.

742
01:04:00,275 --> 01:04:01,195
I mean, prove your point.

743
01:04:02,195 --> 01:04:02,375
Yeah.

744
01:04:02,375 --> 01:04:07,395
And if that if that's what needs to happen to our monetary system, it's not going to be pretty.

745
01:04:07,395 --> 01:04:15,475
And I don't know for how long, you know, but I know that'll be an earth-shaking event, like something we've never seen before.

746
01:04:16,015 --> 01:04:16,615
I think that's right.

747
01:04:16,795 --> 01:04:25,415
John, if I could go back a second to your statement that you were kind of like thinking you needed one Bitcoin, a whole Bitcoin.

748
01:04:26,115 --> 01:04:27,675
I just want to put this out there.

749
01:04:27,955 --> 01:04:35,755
From what I understand, to be in the top 1% of people that own Bitcoin, you only need a fourth of a Bitcoin.

750
01:04:35,755 --> 01:04:45,835
so you really don't need a lot of bitcoin to have a lot of bitcoin yeah yeah no i get it i get it i

751
01:04:45,835 --> 01:04:51,755
and you know after having this conversation see one of the other probably the worst thing that

752
01:04:51,755 --> 01:04:59,195
happened to me in my in my uh labor at gateway was like many other corporations gateway offered me

753
01:04:59,195 --> 01:05:03,355
well you know you're in the executives you're in the c-suite now so we're going to free of charge

754
01:05:03,355 --> 01:05:05,495
provide you with a financial advisor.

755
01:05:06,335 --> 01:05:08,055
And of course, here comes Goldman, right?

756
01:05:08,775 --> 01:05:11,555
I don't know if you can manage it with Bob, but you know.

757
01:05:12,135 --> 01:05:14,355
Yeah, I had that too, John.

758
01:05:14,795 --> 01:05:18,335
Yeah, so because I was so busy, you know,

759
01:05:18,395 --> 01:05:21,635
doing whatever I was supposed to be doing in my work life,

760
01:05:21,635 --> 01:05:26,995
I said, okay, I'll outsource all my financial advice

761
01:05:26,995 --> 01:05:29,695
and thinking and decisions to this thing called Goldman.

762
01:05:29,695 --> 01:05:35,815
To this day, you know, all my my whole all my everything is tied up and Goldman manages it.

763
01:05:36,235 --> 01:05:39,015
Well, it may be stupid, you know, basically. Right.

764
01:05:39,035 --> 01:05:45,235
I mean, I mean, how much do you think about economics when there's some paid person who's thinking about economics for you?

765
01:05:45,235 --> 01:05:54,255
You know, and but it but I and Goldman as an institution, I know, has been down on Bitcoin for quite some time.

766
01:05:54,315 --> 01:05:56,495
You know, they're not the JP Morgans of the world.

767
01:05:56,495 --> 01:06:04,455
And but this conversation is going to lead me to start asking some pretty tough questions of my financial advisors.

768
01:06:04,675 --> 01:06:09,035
Why I don't have Bitcoin as part of my diversified mix?

769
01:06:09,035 --> 01:06:15,335
I love that, John, because I think that's what you go to your friend.

770
01:06:15,455 --> 01:06:26,435
Right. So your friend, we'll call it a decade or so ago, had even as a billionaire putting ten thousand dollars in Bitcoin.

771
01:06:26,495 --> 01:06:32,475
at that period would have been life-changing. Had Bitcoin gone to zero, it wouldn't have changed

772
01:06:32,475 --> 01:06:40,355
his life at all. So I think, I write a monthly newsletter now for Financial Advisor Magazine,

773
01:06:40,355 --> 01:06:46,555
it goes to 400,000 wealth and financial advisors. And that's part of what I've been telling them for

774
01:06:46,555 --> 01:06:55,355
several years now, is I say, hey, you're going to have to be accountable to the people who years ago

775
01:06:55,355 --> 01:07:02,375
said to you, what about Bitcoin? And you said, no, it's too risky. It's speculative. It's a Ponzi,

776
01:07:02,595 --> 01:07:08,995
you know, whatever it is. Well, it's not. It's roughly the sixth most valuable asset in the

777
01:07:08,995 --> 01:07:17,635
world. It's roughly on par with Amazon right now. And you told them for all these years to stay away.

778
01:07:18,595 --> 01:07:23,035
And now you have a difficult situation because what's happening is a lot of them are pivoting.

779
01:07:23,035 --> 01:07:30,295
Morgan Stanley and, you know, Fidelity and even like Vanguard has now changed their tune.

780
01:07:30,575 --> 01:07:31,915
Like, how do you do that?

781
01:07:32,035 --> 01:07:36,455
How do you go to them and say, oh, now, like you said, I feel like I missed the boat.

782
01:07:36,615 --> 01:07:43,475
So you're going to go to them after they feel like they missed the boat and tell them now to get in?

783
01:07:43,575 --> 01:07:46,695
Like, it's very, very weird situation.

784
01:07:46,695 --> 01:07:47,995
And they were dead wrong.

785
01:07:49,495 --> 01:07:52,475
Obviously, they were dead wrong and they didn't do the work.

786
01:07:52,475 --> 01:07:57,215
A lot of their own vested interests are all about keeping Bitcoin out, right?

787
01:07:57,355 --> 01:08:00,975
I mean, they make money from selling stocks, and so they're going to sell.

788
01:08:01,575 --> 01:08:03,255
Yeah, that's right.

789
01:08:04,075 --> 01:08:14,195
I mean, I've often said it's only a matter of time until somebody brings a class action lawsuit against these advisors and says, hey, you know, this is the best performing financial asset in the last 16 years.

790
01:08:14,755 --> 01:08:15,715
Why didn't I own any?

791
01:08:15,915 --> 01:08:18,255
That's your job is to put me in these good assets.

792
01:08:19,055 --> 01:08:20,895
You know, I'm going to sue you for malpractice.

793
01:08:20,895 --> 01:08:23,655
I mean, I don't know how much traction they'll get on that.

794
01:08:23,655 --> 01:08:28,735
But the point is that, you know, they're being people are being forced to reckon with it.

795
01:08:28,735 --> 01:08:30,695
And yeah, yeah.

796
01:08:30,695 --> 01:08:31,735
You know, I don't know.

797
01:08:31,735 --> 01:08:42,535
And you guys have probably thought about this, but I'm trying to understand is what parallels, if any, exist behind the evolution of A.I.

798
01:08:42,615 --> 01:08:49,815
and Bitcoin, you know, and I just say that because, you know, the world right now is half of it's on fire.

799
01:08:49,815 --> 01:08:55,255
you know say i can't wait for ai think of the productivity gains i'm going to get go go go you

800
01:08:55,255 --> 01:09:00,855
know and who cares about the rules whatever um and the other half is scared to death i'm going to

801
01:09:00,855 --> 01:09:06,935
lose my job you know this is going to be the end of the world uh you know robots will run the world

802
01:09:06,935 --> 01:09:12,295
and it's like okay well the truth is somewhere in between but it's just it's an accelerated

803
01:09:12,295 --> 01:09:18,055
situ you know the situation is just accelerating where these ai advances are upon us quicker than

804
01:09:18,055 --> 01:09:18,995
than we even know.

805
01:09:18,995 --> 01:09:21,835
And I'm wondering, it just makes sense to me

806
01:09:21,835 --> 01:09:24,275
that from a monetary standpoint,

807
01:09:24,275 --> 01:09:28,415
I'm not surprised that the digital economy

808
01:09:28,415 --> 01:09:31,135
is gonna just move along with AI.

809
01:09:31,135 --> 01:09:34,955
And that's gonna be a lot of wind at its back, I think.

810
01:09:34,955 --> 01:09:37,155
I'd be interested in your viewpoint on that.

811
01:09:38,615 --> 01:09:40,955
Well, I think, go ahead, Larry.

812
01:09:40,955 --> 01:09:41,795
No, I agree with that.

813
01:09:41,795 --> 01:09:43,375
Yeah, I agree with what he said.

814
01:09:43,375 --> 01:09:47,655
Yeah, I think there's a lot there.

815
01:09:47,655 --> 01:09:50,235
I mean, that's probably a whole episode in and of itself, John.

816
01:09:50,555 --> 01:09:54,815
But I'll say a couple of things.

817
01:09:54,955 --> 01:09:59,675
You know, one, as it pertains to AI, I think AI is going to need a currency.

818
01:10:00,395 --> 01:10:03,195
And the logical currency of AI is Bitcoin.

819
01:10:03,195 --> 01:10:07,475
So I think there will be a correlation as this thing matures.

820
01:10:08,495 --> 01:10:10,915
And in fact, there's interesting examples.

821
01:10:10,915 --> 01:10:30,575
If you look at, let's say, a Tesla car, and instead of thinking of the car as owned by somebody, you think of the car itself as an entity which wants to preserve itself.

822
01:10:30,715 --> 01:10:31,835
I'll use this as an example.

823
01:10:32,315 --> 01:10:40,835
Well, it can drive off literally out of the factory and start earning money.

824
01:10:40,915 --> 01:10:49,715
it can start giving rides and it can collect and know that it has that that it can collect bitcoin

825
01:10:49,715 --> 01:10:55,635
and know that it's getting it and and it knows when it needs a recharge it knows when it needs

826
01:10:55,635 --> 01:11:04,435
new breaks um and it has a currency by which it can sustain itself and so you can if you i think

827
01:11:04,435 --> 01:11:09,155
that's an easy example for people to get but you know it could be a robot it could be even a

828
01:11:09,155 --> 01:11:14,155
a completely virtual agent that now has a mechanism by which it,

829
01:11:14,275 --> 01:11:18,795
it can do, it's kind of scary shit, but it's, and,

830
01:11:18,855 --> 01:11:21,275
and it's wild, you know, to think about.

831
01:11:22,275 --> 01:11:25,575
I think it will happen way faster, you know,

832
01:11:25,615 --> 01:11:28,635
even though all of us are in the back nine of life,

833
01:11:28,635 --> 01:11:32,715
I think we will see this in our lifetime, you know, and,

834
01:11:32,715 --> 01:11:34,975
and probably even within the decade,

835
01:11:34,975 --> 01:11:38,575
we'll see these sorts of things fulfill themselves.

836
01:11:39,155 --> 01:11:57,935
I think interestingly, John, we came through an industry, the personal computer industry, and we look at the way it changed the world, the way adoption occurred, the way it changed labor and all those sort of – and I think that was a foreshadow.

837
01:11:58,395 --> 01:12:07,255
This will be a bigger impact, but what happened – I think you entered in the mid-'90s, right? I think that's when you came to Gateway.

838
01:12:07,255 --> 01:12:31,515
So you came in and we started working together almost at the inflection, a key inflection point, I would say. You, you know, you entered there. I happened to start about 15 years before that. And, you know, we went through the classic curve of the innovators, the early adopters, the early majority.

839
01:12:31,515 --> 01:12:37,295
I think you came right as we were leaving the early majority and kind of entering the mainstream.

840
01:12:38,075 --> 01:12:50,015
And that next six, seven years, which when we worked together at Gateway, that was the real glory day of that.

841
01:12:50,095 --> 01:12:51,155
And that's where the world changed.

842
01:12:51,235 --> 01:12:57,755
Because prior to that, and I'm sure you remember that, prior to when you joined, was it like 96, 97, John, something like that?

843
01:12:57,755 --> 01:12:58,255
Yeah, 1996.

844
01:12:58,255 --> 01:13:04,255
So, you know, we didn't have broadband.

845
01:13:05,355 --> 01:13:06,795
There really was no Internet.

846
01:13:06,795 --> 01:13:14,115
People were largely using their personal computer to do things like word processing and spreadsheets.

847
01:13:14,695 --> 01:13:17,195
They maybe had an email account, but it was through AOL.

848
01:13:17,575 --> 01:13:21,235
It was a very different kind of world.

849
01:13:21,375 --> 01:13:26,195
And what happened over the next seven, eight years is, you know, it changed everything, right?

850
01:13:26,195 --> 01:13:38,555
We went from one PC, maybe in each house or each classroom, to every student has one, every desk in every business has one, everybody has their own laptop.

851
01:13:39,835 --> 01:13:41,075
You know, mobile computing.

852
01:13:41,755 --> 01:13:41,795
Yep.

853
01:13:42,215 --> 01:13:45,675
We saw administrative jobs collapse, right?

854
01:13:45,755 --> 01:13:49,135
Clerical jobs, administrative jobs, you know, completely collapsed.

855
01:13:50,215 --> 01:13:51,675
I think all those sort of things.

856
01:13:51,675 --> 01:13:54,075
but AI is

857
01:13:54,075 --> 01:13:56,575
AI is leaps and bounds

858
01:13:56,575 --> 01:13:57,295
beyond that

859
01:13:57,295 --> 01:14:00,135
yeah I think that's it you really put it well Bob

860
01:14:00,135 --> 01:14:02,415
it's almost like AI needs a monetary system

861
01:14:02,415 --> 01:14:03,695
that can keep up with it

862
01:14:03,695 --> 01:14:06,015
that's what it seems like

863
01:14:06,015 --> 01:14:07,595
that'll be when that is like

864
01:14:07,595 --> 01:14:09,595
yeah

865
01:14:09,595 --> 01:14:12,555
yeah

866
01:14:12,555 --> 01:14:15,195
John do you

867
01:14:15,195 --> 01:14:18,255
you mentioned like you're not

868
01:14:18,255 --> 01:14:20,095
really been active

869
01:14:20,095 --> 01:14:24,495
You're letting Goldman kind of, you know, at a personal level.

870
01:14:24,635 --> 01:14:39,235
But do you view organizations, we'll use the Reagan Foundation, which I know you are no longer active, when they look at managing their endowment or their trust?

871
01:14:39,295 --> 01:14:41,735
I'm not quite sure what structure you guys have.

872
01:14:43,135 --> 01:14:47,095
How do you see them looking at something like Bitcoin?

873
01:14:47,095 --> 01:14:54,335
and you're part of the, you know, so the Waite Family Foundation and philanthropic,

874
01:14:54,335 --> 01:14:58,235
you know, endeavors. How do you see them looking at it?

875
01:14:58,695 --> 01:15:04,155
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, when I started at the Reagan Foundation,

876
01:15:04,155 --> 01:15:12,855
I was stunned that its endowment was only like $30 million and that, you know, that number,

877
01:15:12,855 --> 01:15:17,815
I mean, that would be enough to pay for three quarters of a year of operations.

878
01:15:18,015 --> 01:15:19,315
I mean, it was just way too small.

879
01:15:19,455 --> 01:15:23,555
So we went on a huge development spree.

880
01:15:23,875 --> 01:15:28,095
And by the time I left, we had $350 million in the endowment.

881
01:15:28,615 --> 01:15:36,395
And interestingly enough, yep, Goldman managed to set money too.

882
01:15:36,395 --> 01:15:47,695
Anyways, Andy, the thing about Bitcoin and I'll say, let's say the nonprofit world, which Reagan Foundation would be.

883
01:15:47,755 --> 01:15:57,935
So the entire nonprofit sector has a more conservative dial on their investment strategy than you would if you were a business or in private enterprise.

884
01:15:57,935 --> 01:16:05,715
right? Because, you know, you've got donors, not customers, and you have to watch every dollar like

885
01:16:05,715 --> 01:16:14,735
a hawk if you want to stay tax exempt and grow. So I would say, you know, like while any company,

886
01:16:14,895 --> 01:16:22,575
Microsoft or others have this piece of Bitcoin in their investment portfolio, the harder not to

887
01:16:22,575 --> 01:16:29,095
crack will be the major endowments, whether Harvard or the Reagan Foundation, what have you,

888
01:16:29,135 --> 01:16:35,315
because they're just naturally like, oh, man, if it's an asset that goes up and down and way too

889
01:16:35,315 --> 01:16:42,495
much, you know, they'll stay away. I think it'll take some stability and more broader acceptance.

890
01:16:42,935 --> 01:16:48,995
And it will reach the point where smart endowments in the nonprofit space will invest

891
01:16:48,995 --> 01:16:50,115
and we'll get involved.

892
01:16:50,255 --> 01:16:52,235
But I think at least at this point,

893
01:16:52,295 --> 01:16:56,755
it's probably, you know, further out on the horizon.

894
01:17:01,755 --> 01:17:04,715
Larry and Gary, I have a few other things for John,

895
01:17:04,775 --> 01:17:06,275
but they're kind of like way off

896
01:17:06,275 --> 01:17:08,655
in a completely different direction.

897
01:17:09,435 --> 01:17:10,715
What else do you guys got?

898
01:17:12,695 --> 01:17:13,615
I'm good.

899
01:17:14,155 --> 01:17:14,675
I'm good.

900
01:17:15,755 --> 01:17:18,735
I'd say go that direction or wrap either way.

901
01:17:18,995 --> 01:17:22,295
I wonder how I get a

902
01:17:22,295 --> 01:17:25,015
personalized tour of the Reagan

903
01:17:25,015 --> 01:17:26,015
Museum next time

904
01:17:26,015 --> 01:17:27,495
like Bob got

905
01:17:27,495 --> 01:17:30,875
when you send me your book

906
01:17:30,875 --> 01:17:32,975
just put a little

907
01:17:32,975 --> 01:17:34,635
card in and I'll shoot you back

908
01:17:34,635 --> 01:17:36,955
I'm happy to make that happen

909
01:17:36,955 --> 01:17:38,255
you know because

910
01:17:38,255 --> 01:17:40,375
they still like me enough that

911
01:17:40,375 --> 01:17:41,075
I can

912
01:17:41,075 --> 01:17:44,715
you get the kind of tour that Bob did

913
01:17:44,715 --> 01:17:46,075
you get to literally

914
01:17:46,075 --> 01:17:48,595
sit at Reagan's desk and

915
01:17:48,595 --> 01:17:51,455
Yeah, that was the highlight, honestly.

916
01:17:51,715 --> 01:17:52,855
Yeah, I'll never forget that.

917
01:17:53,115 --> 01:17:53,855
Sounds pretty great.

918
01:17:54,755 --> 01:17:55,035
Yeah.

919
01:17:55,235 --> 01:17:56,935
I have no questions, Bob.

920
01:17:56,995 --> 01:17:57,455
Go ahead.

921
01:17:57,895 --> 01:17:58,055
Okay.

922
01:17:58,495 --> 01:18:04,915
Well, yeah, we're going to kind of move off of Bitcoin because I think maybe we'll close with this.

923
01:18:05,815 --> 01:18:10,135
I mentioned John is one of the most interesting people in the world.

924
01:18:10,135 --> 01:18:21,195
And after, I guess it was no simultaneous with running the Reagan Library, John authored a couple books.

925
01:18:21,935 --> 01:18:23,255
At least the first one, right, John?

926
01:18:23,315 --> 01:18:25,155
The first one you completed, at least while you were there.

927
01:18:25,255 --> 01:18:26,255
Did you do the second one, too?

928
01:18:26,815 --> 01:18:27,155
I did.

929
01:18:27,295 --> 01:18:27,775
Second one.

930
01:18:28,335 --> 01:18:28,715
Yeah.

931
01:18:28,875 --> 01:18:40,015
And I had the pleasure of going to the Reagan Library where we had the, I guess the unveiling, John, I don't know what you would call that, where you unveiled the book.

932
01:18:40,015 --> 01:18:42,815
But the first book was called The Shroud Conspiracy.

933
01:18:43,895 --> 01:18:46,835
And it's a book.

934
01:18:46,935 --> 01:18:53,535
I've read The Shroud Conspiracy and the sequel to The Shroud Conspiracy both a couple times.

935
01:18:53,835 --> 01:18:55,275
They're phenomenal books.

936
01:18:56,835 --> 01:18:59,155
I guess you wouldn't call it historical fiction.

937
01:18:59,335 --> 01:19:00,195
John, what would you call it?

938
01:19:00,355 --> 01:19:03,015
Maybe kind of –

939
01:19:03,015 --> 01:19:07,635
If you're familiar with The Da Vinci Code and that style.

940
01:19:07,695 --> 01:19:07,935
Yeah.

941
01:19:07,935 --> 01:19:11,715
It's a scientific religious thriller.

942
01:19:11,715 --> 01:19:13,255
Yeah.

943
01:19:13,795 --> 01:19:20,175
And this one, as you can probably guess from the title, involves the Shroud of Turan.

944
01:19:20,735 --> 01:19:27,975
And so I think, John, maybe just kind of, you know, why did you write that book?

945
01:19:28,955 --> 01:19:35,715
And what I'm also interested in your perspectives on the Shroud itself.

946
01:19:36,715 --> 01:19:37,015
Sure.

947
01:19:37,015 --> 01:19:37,375
Sure.

948
01:19:37,935 --> 01:19:40,195
Yeah. Well, I just bought the book, John.

949
01:19:41,755 --> 01:19:48,995
Thank you. Both became bestsellers, which was kind of nice and somewhat of a fluke because I had never written novels before.

950
01:19:49,435 --> 01:19:53,695
When you're in politics, you better know how to communicate. So I knew how to write. I knew how to write well.

951
01:19:54,015 --> 01:20:06,775
One of my degrees is in English. By the time I hit the Reagan Library, I had written every style of right opinion pieces for Wall Street Journal or Times or The Washington Post.

952
01:20:06,775 --> 01:20:12,795
presidential memorandum, speeches for the president, you know, letters to constituents,

953
01:20:12,975 --> 01:20:20,035
every kind of writing you can imagine. I never thought I had the patience to sit there and write

954
01:20:20,035 --> 01:20:26,815
a full-length novel. And I thought, well, you know, I'll just try. So one night I came home,

955
01:20:26,975 --> 01:20:34,355
I chained myself to my desk and I wrote the first paragraph in the first chapter and was on from

956
01:20:34,355 --> 01:20:38,555
there, but I never thought that anybody but my wife and kids would read it, if even them, you know.

957
01:20:39,175 --> 01:20:44,915
But when I, as a fluke, I sent it to somebody who said, hey, you need to get an agent. This is pretty

958
01:20:44,915 --> 01:20:51,575
good. So I did. And three weeks later, boom, Simon and Schuster picked it up and we were off to the

959
01:20:51,575 --> 01:21:00,675
races. And, but the idea for these, this series is built on when I was 17 years old, I sat there,

960
01:21:00,675 --> 01:21:05,915
you know, I'm Catholic. I went to a Catholic high school and we sat in this religion class one day

961
01:21:05,915 --> 01:21:13,795
and they showed this film by the Catholic Church, which is about the Shroud of Terrain. And,

962
01:21:13,935 --> 01:21:24,115
you know, when you see the shroud and you look at the image that's on that famous cloth and you

963
01:21:24,115 --> 01:21:29,375
stare at it and you're like, you've been raised, always kind of wonder, well, what does Jesus Christ,

964
01:21:29,375 --> 01:21:33,655
what did he actually look like? And you look at the shroud, it's kind of stunning.

965
01:21:34,015 --> 01:21:40,295
It, you know, so have you seen it in person? Yes, I have. I have. Yeah. Now it's not on display in

966
01:21:40,295 --> 01:21:47,055
the public very often because the church is hugely careful about lighting and, you know,

967
01:21:47,055 --> 01:21:52,735
as an artifact, especially that old, you have to be extremely careful about exposing it to

968
01:21:52,735 --> 01:22:01,135
radiation, outside light, you know, ultraviolet, all that. So it put the idea in my head that this

969
01:22:01,135 --> 01:22:08,875
is a story that could be very fascinating to write about. And 35 years later, it's still on my mind.

970
01:22:09,495 --> 01:22:17,575
I went, Bob Wood knows this fellow very well, Ted Waite, who I worked for after Gateway. I ran

971
01:22:17,575 --> 01:22:24,135
the Reagan, I ran the Wade Institute. One of our projects was, let's go find the

972
01:22:24,135 --> 01:22:30,635
lost airplane of Amelia Earhart. So I went down in the South Pacific for two months,

973
01:22:31,115 --> 01:22:37,555
aboard some really big ships, trying to find her aircraft, you know, based on formulas that would

974
01:22:37,555 --> 01:22:42,295
determine where she probably entered and crashed and the rest of that. But anyways, when you are

975
01:22:42,295 --> 01:22:47,315
vacuuming the ocean floor for two months. There's a lot of things that are, you know,

976
01:22:47,315 --> 01:22:53,415
you have a lot of time on your hands. And so it was on that trip that I developed the plot

977
01:22:53,415 --> 01:22:59,695
for the book. But I didn't write it right away. I waited till I was at the Reagan Library and I

978
01:22:59,695 --> 01:23:05,315
had some time. And so at nighttime, I just, for six months straight, every night I went and

979
01:23:05,315 --> 01:23:12,455
wrote this book. And it's about a, a historical anthropologist who was a

980
01:23:14,735 --> 01:23:19,935
an atheist, you know, Tim, God's an absurd concept. And, and he's made a

981
01:23:19,993 --> 01:23:24,773
and made a lot of money proving religious relics as fakes around the world.

982
01:23:25,413 --> 01:23:27,573
And he does it using science.

983
01:23:28,233 --> 01:23:29,793
We have a great team of scientists.

984
01:23:29,993 --> 01:23:33,993
They're able to prove through carbon dating and any number of other means

985
01:23:33,993 --> 01:23:35,693
what's real and what's not.

986
01:23:36,093 --> 01:23:38,973
And so I thought, well, why don't I put that to the test?

987
01:23:38,973 --> 01:23:43,333
I took this guy as the character who was asked by the Catholic Church

988
01:23:43,333 --> 01:23:47,213
to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin,

989
01:23:47,413 --> 01:23:49,013
burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

990
01:23:49,013 --> 01:23:58,213
And it's the book is kind of fascinating because it's not just a scientific whodunit, but it is it's a journey.

991
01:23:58,673 --> 01:24:00,333
It's not just a journey around the world.

992
01:24:00,333 --> 01:24:08,873
It's a journey of internally what happens to him when he discovers through scientific means that the shroud is real.

993
01:24:09,013 --> 01:24:14,013
It is authentic because you can imagine as an atheist that throws his world into a total tailspin.

994
01:24:14,013 --> 01:24:19,473
tailspin, because now he has to believe that there really is this thing called faith really

995
01:24:19,473 --> 01:24:20,733
has something behind it.

996
01:24:20,893 --> 01:24:25,033
And so the book's kind of a love story and a science story and a religious story.

997
01:24:25,033 --> 01:24:35,153
And it ends up getting very out there because in this plot, this group of individuals wants

998
01:24:35,153 --> 01:24:41,593
to steal a speck of blood from the shroud in order to recombine the DNA and create a

999
01:24:41,593 --> 01:24:42,953
second coming of their own.

1000
01:24:44,013 --> 01:24:46,653
through cloning of Jesus Christ.

1001
01:24:47,053 --> 01:24:50,573
And so it's a big, big tale.

1002
01:24:50,933 --> 01:24:52,733
And fortunately, it sold really well.

1003
01:24:53,573 --> 01:24:56,353
Hopefully, one of the things I'm spending in my lonely retirement

1004
01:24:56,353 --> 01:25:00,533
is trying to figure out if I can get the books converted into a full-length feature film.

1005
01:25:01,373 --> 01:25:02,893
And I'm making some progress.

1006
01:25:03,053 --> 01:25:04,893
We'll see where it goes from here.

1007
01:25:05,473 --> 01:25:06,693
Yeah, that was...

1008
01:25:06,693 --> 01:25:07,313
That's a fascinating story.

1009
01:25:08,213 --> 01:25:09,133
Yeah, it is.

1010
01:25:09,453 --> 01:25:13,733
And I remember, you know, John, even having that conversation with you,

1011
01:25:14,013 --> 01:25:20,073
uh right after the book was released and and reading it that yeah this is um well as dan

1012
01:25:20,073 --> 01:25:25,973
brown stuff is right i mean they've they've largely been turned into really great movies

1013
01:25:25,973 --> 01:25:41,108
or frankly i don think a movie does justice to it i think it better done as like a a 10 netflix thing or something like that so yeah So what do I know But I will say this and I appreciate you sharing this John

1014
01:25:41,108 --> 01:25:46,928
I think to try to bring it back to Bitcoin, I think what is interesting,

1015
01:25:47,488 --> 01:25:50,348
and I encourage everybody to get the book, read the book.

1016
01:25:50,888 --> 01:25:58,348
And if you're a Bitcoiner, think about the protagonist, Bondurant.

1017
01:25:58,348 --> 01:26:16,108
Is that, was it John Bondurant? Do I remember it right? He's an atheist and he becomes a believer. And I think there's an analogy to Bitcoin too, that there's a whole bunch of people out there that are non-believers.

1018
01:26:16,108 --> 01:26:23,168
that and, you know, part of what we're doing is, you know, we're converting them much like,

1019
01:26:23,948 --> 01:26:29,228
you know, through the truth, right? Through the truth, you know, what is money? And,

1020
01:26:29,228 --> 01:26:34,088
and John, you know, we, we view this, the three of us, I'm speaking for the three of us,

1021
01:26:34,468 --> 01:26:40,408
you know, it's very much a good versus evil battle that we think, you know, money and the

1022
01:26:40,408 --> 01:26:46,088
abuse of the monetary system creates a great deal of, and maybe even almost all of the problems

1023
01:26:46,088 --> 01:26:53,048
of the world. And if we have a truthful form of money, we have a society that has a chance.

1024
01:26:55,368 --> 01:26:58,868
Yeah, really. I mean, that's interesting. I think you're right. You're absolutely right.

1025
01:27:00,208 --> 01:27:01,828
In the end, the good conquers.

1026
01:27:03,108 --> 01:27:09,428
Hey, John, I have a question on the shroud real quick. This is a long shot, I know, but

1027
01:27:09,428 --> 01:27:13,108
you don't happen to know who Russell Brealt is, do you?

1028
01:27:14,608 --> 01:27:15,988
Russell, what's the last name?

1029
01:27:16,088 --> 01:27:18,888
Breault, B-R-E-A-U-L-T.

1030
01:27:19,248 --> 01:27:25,328
He's a friend of mine who's been studying the Shroud since 79, probably.

1031
01:27:25,468 --> 01:27:26,008
Wow, okay.

1032
01:27:26,248 --> 01:27:31,508
And so I would have been surprised if he hadn't read your book and messaged you or something.

1033
01:27:31,648 --> 01:27:32,708
It's the only reason I asked.

1034
01:27:33,468 --> 01:27:39,828
Yeah, you know, in fact, there's an extraordinary exposition right now down in Orange County

1035
01:27:39,828 --> 01:27:44,068
where there's a whole museum that is dedicated to the shroud

1036
01:27:44,068 --> 01:27:53,003
and the controversy and the science and all the rest So it I knew it was a long shot but I just thought I ask Yeah

1037
01:27:55,583 --> 01:28:00,623
It's a really, it's, you know, another quick

1038
01:28:00,623 --> 01:28:04,583
side story. As I went, I didn't, in the plot of

1039
01:28:04,583 --> 01:28:08,143
this book, one of the

1040
01:28:08,143 --> 01:28:10,603
antagonists

1041
01:28:10,603 --> 01:28:16,123
comes to find he has pancreatic cancer.

1042
01:28:16,463 --> 01:28:19,703
And he's given just a few months to live.

1043
01:28:19,763 --> 01:28:21,583
And I remember at the time as I was researching,

1044
01:28:22,063 --> 01:28:24,523
what are the five worst cancers you can get?

1045
01:28:25,763 --> 01:28:27,683
Pancreatic was like right at the top of the list.

1046
01:28:28,063 --> 01:28:31,123
And I didn't know at the time, but as I was writing,

1047
01:28:31,843 --> 01:28:35,243
I too had terminal cancer.

1048
01:28:35,943 --> 01:28:37,583
And I was on the list of five.

1049
01:28:37,583 --> 01:28:39,283
and

1050
01:28:39,283 --> 01:28:41,523
and

1051
01:28:41,523 --> 01:28:43,963
so I decided to finish

1052
01:28:43,963 --> 01:28:45,943
the series before I passed

1053
01:28:45,943 --> 01:28:47,543
I was given three months to live

1054
01:28:47,543 --> 01:28:51,883
and boy did that ever put me into

1055
01:28:51,883 --> 01:28:52,903
a faith tunnel

1056
01:28:52,903 --> 01:28:55,263
but at the end of the day

1057
01:28:55,263 --> 01:28:56,483
here I sit

1058
01:28:56,483 --> 01:29:00,123
having given less than 1% chance to live

1059
01:29:00,123 --> 01:29:03,983
just like the character in my book

1060
01:29:03,983 --> 01:29:05,803
who was also given a second life

1061
01:29:05,803 --> 01:29:08,283
but through very bad meetings, I'll just say that.

1062
01:29:08,883 --> 01:29:10,783
So it's kind of, it's interesting

1063
01:29:10,783 --> 01:29:13,023
how this world spins around sometimes.

1064
01:29:14,163 --> 01:29:16,223
You know, by the way, the way I survived,

1065
01:29:16,623 --> 01:29:20,703
I ended up, you know, I was asked this question

1066
01:29:20,703 --> 01:29:21,703
when I launched the book,

1067
01:29:21,743 --> 01:29:23,883
because a lot of people know about that story,

1068
01:29:23,983 --> 01:29:25,063
especially those close to me.

1069
01:29:25,923 --> 01:29:29,683
And I had, I underwent five years

1070
01:29:29,683 --> 01:29:31,003
of experimental treatments.

1071
01:29:31,963 --> 01:29:33,923
And finally, it was this combination

1072
01:29:33,923 --> 01:29:37,263
of brand new immunotherapy drugs that I took.

1073
01:29:38,943 --> 01:29:40,763
But interestingly enough,

1074
01:29:41,003 --> 01:29:43,623
after the first immunotherapy treatment,

1075
01:29:43,783 --> 01:29:45,123
I also got on a plane

1076
01:29:45,123 --> 01:29:48,583
and I flew to Lourdes in France

1077
01:29:48,583 --> 01:29:51,123
where, especially if you're a person of faith,

1078
01:29:51,183 --> 01:29:52,063
in the Catholic faith,

1079
01:29:52,223 --> 01:29:53,723
there's the site of a miracle.

1080
01:29:54,723 --> 01:29:56,063
I'm going there in April, John.

1081
01:29:56,903 --> 01:30:14,998
Okay so I immersed myself in the springs of Lourdes And when I came back six weeks later for the first time in five years my scan showed it was clean wow like it was gone now people say well

1082
01:30:14,998 --> 01:30:19,978
what did it was this miraculous spring or was it the immunotherapy and i say i don't know maybe it

1083
01:30:19,978 --> 01:30:27,178
was a combination of both um but um it just you were asking about that bob in terms of the book

1084
01:30:27,178 --> 01:30:29,358
I thought I'd just relate that story quickly.

1085
01:30:30,398 --> 01:30:30,838
Yeah.

1086
01:30:31,098 --> 01:30:32,978
Well, I thank you for sharing that, John.

1087
01:30:33,038 --> 01:30:39,138
Obviously, as your friend and somebody I respect tremendously, I'm so happy you're here.

1088
01:30:39,718 --> 01:30:41,378
Like, it is a blessing.

1089
01:30:41,718 --> 01:30:45,058
I've sent plenty of prayers for you back in those days.

1090
01:30:45,318 --> 01:30:50,778
And, you know, you had a bunch of prayer warriors fighting for you at that time.

1091
01:30:50,778 --> 01:30:52,898
But I am a believer in such things.

1092
01:30:52,898 --> 01:31:04,698
And like I, Lola, my wife and I, we had last year, we went to Barcelona and then we took, we went up to see the Black Madonna.

1093
01:31:05,978 --> 01:31:07,938
I saw that. I saw that. That's great.

1094
01:31:08,698 --> 01:31:11,258
Yeah. And just outside of Barcelona.

1095
01:31:11,258 --> 01:31:23,778
And we just went to another site in the Philippines recently where I forgot the name because it's a Filipino name.

1096
01:31:23,958 --> 01:31:28,178
But anyway, you know, what a wonderful story.

1097
01:31:29,298 --> 01:31:32,938
And, you know, John, I'm so happy that we got to do this.

1098
01:31:33,098 --> 01:31:36,558
I think we talked about it probably a year ago doing something like this.

1099
01:31:36,558 --> 01:31:41,538
But we finally pulled it off, and I think people are going to love this.

1100
01:31:41,678 --> 01:31:44,398
I really, really enjoyed spending this time with you.

1101
01:31:44,578 --> 01:31:44,878
Thank you.

1102
01:31:45,018 --> 01:31:45,438
Thank you.

1103
01:31:45,958 --> 01:31:46,338
You bet.

1104
01:31:46,458 --> 01:31:47,218
I learned a lot.

1105
01:31:48,338 --> 01:31:49,098
Thank you, guys.

1106
01:31:49,178 --> 01:31:49,398
I did.

1107
01:31:49,478 --> 01:31:50,158
I learned a lot.

1108
01:31:50,478 --> 01:31:53,438
And the next call I'm going to make is to Goldman Sachs.

1109
01:31:55,338 --> 01:31:55,698
Yeah.

1110
01:31:56,058 --> 01:31:56,918
If you need me.

1111
01:31:57,438 --> 01:31:58,598
You'll have some ammunition.

1112
01:31:58,878 --> 01:32:00,298
You'll say, hey, you've got to read this book.

1113
01:32:01,058 --> 01:32:02,378
You know, this will explain your life.

1114
01:32:03,178 --> 01:32:03,738
I'll tell you what.

1115
01:32:03,738 --> 01:32:06,198
If you send me those books, I'll send you some copies of mine.

1116
01:32:06,198 --> 01:32:07,038
How's that?

1117
01:32:07,038 --> 01:32:08,418
Sounds like a deal.

1118
01:32:08,418 --> 01:32:09,638
Sounds like a deal to me too.

1119
01:32:09,638 --> 01:32:12,078
Hey, I just want to remind everybody,

1120
01:32:12,078 --> 01:32:13,918
I got a message from Mel.

1121
01:32:13,918 --> 01:32:15,918
Don't anyone turn their computers off

1122
01:32:15,918 --> 01:32:18,198
when you get through until we get the okay.