The signal is here.
This is Blood Channel Radio.
Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the lightning-laced airwaves.
Today is Friday the 16th of January, and it is 4.05pm on the east coast of the United States at the time of recording.
This is episode 146 of Plep Chain Radio, and we have a fun one in store.
My guest today is Dion Wilson, a man who has left behind the glitz and glamour of Broadway for the guts and glory of Bitcoin.
He's the founder of the newly created Bitcoin for the Arts initiative, and we will be talking all about that and much, much more.
Don't miss our open music segment coming up in the show.
90% of your boosts and streams during the song
will go to the artist
and all the more reason folks
that if you are listening to the show on Apple or Spotify
first of all thank you for listening
but I would urge you to hit pause
and switch over to the Fountain Podcasting app
where you can earn some sats
and support the value for value revolution
while you listen
and while you're there
I would appreciate it if you hit that subscribe button.
This is a Valley for Valley production and your support,
either in the form of a subscription or a boost,
goes a long way in keeping this mic warm and the podcast ad-free.
This show is being streamed live from my self-hosted streaming server
and because of the magic of Noster,
is available on any client that supports streaming such as Amethyst, Nostur, Fountain, Primal and Nostria.
The third episode of my travel show, Finding Home, was released earlier this week
and is now available for viewing on IndieHub.
In this episode, I travel to Asuncion, Paraguay, where I spend a few days with Jan Kotas,
a young Czech expat who has learned how to hack life
and embody the sovereign way in the new frontier that is Paraguay.
Lots of wine, lots of steak,
and glorious shots all across Ascension are in store.
And for the loyal listeners of the show,
you can use discount code PIONEER21,
that's P-I-O-N-E-E-R,
and the number 2-1,
for 21% off the ticket price on IndieHub.
And for those listening on the live stream today,
if you stick around after the show,
I will be screening that very episode
as a NOSTA premiere at 6 p.m. Eastern, 2300 UTC.
I'm pretty sure this is a first-of-its-kind event,
a new show premiering on NOSTA.
So if you want to be part of this historic event,
Tune in to the stream at 6 p.m. Eastern.
It will be broadcast from my personal account, not Plep Chain Radio,
and it will be available on any of your favorite live streaming NOSTA clients.
I will also be airing a rerun at 2 p.m. Eastern, that's 1900, UTC this Sunday, January 18th,
right after my Sunday brunch show.
folks i was reflecting on the episode from last week when i read four essays from max hillebrand
on the topic of the sovereign departure and then i spoke to a recently minted bitcoin a friend of
mine who mentioned how none of his fiat friends for lack of a better term want to hear about his
newfound obsession, namely Bitcoin. And that is the topic for today's sermon.
Embrace the outsider in you. There is a moment in every quiet departure when you realize the door
was never locked, only socially enchanted. You step through anyway, and suddenly you're standing
in a new jurisdiction, one carried in your pocket, written in keys, not committees.
There is no applause from the old world when this happens, however.
Instead, it recoils.
So if your orange pilling feels like it's failing, good.
That is evidence.
That is not failure.
You have become an outsider, and outsiders don't get invited to defend their thesis at the banquet table.
The legacy system survives on participation, not persuasion.
When you stop asking permission and start building, you're withdrawing oxygen.
It's not a debate anymore.
And yes, the old world will reject you.
Not because your arguments are weak, but because your existence is an indictment.
Your calm is contagious.
Your exit is heresy.
So don't be surprised when the conversations get weird, when the room changes temperature,
when the nice people suddenly sound like bureaucrats.
The door is open, but not everyone wants to walk through it.
which is why the mission is not to win the courtroom drama of dinner table politics.
The mission is to build the parallel city and light it well.
Be a beacon through your actions rather than through your words.
And in that parallel city, art is infrastructure.
music, film, theatre, painting, novels, posters, memes
the strange little songs that make a movement feel like a home
this is how a sovereign culture metabolizes truth
without turning it into a pamphlet
but art doesn't run on applause
it runs on patrons
So the builders with sats become the Medici of the protocol age.
Don't just fund code, fund the chorus.
Keep the candle lit and keep the artists fed.
As Max Hillebrand said, the candle doesn't chase people through the room, it stays lit.
And with that, it is time to bring on a man who hopes to light a million such candles.
Dion Wilson, welcome to Pleb Chain Radio.
Why, thank you, Avi. It is a pleasure to be here.
Dion, you know, we've met a few times. You're in New York.
Every time I visit, I'm not too far away.
We've had a chance to chat a few times.
And, you know, I'm actually looking forward to this conversation
because I've only gotten snippets of your story
through these fragmented conversations behind a pub key or some other place.
But you are from Broadway and you've exited Broadway
and you're now a full-time Bitcoin.
Is that correct?
That is correct.
Yes.
So we can go through the whole story if you like.
Let's do it.
All right.
So from the top, I moved to New York back in the late 90s to go to college.
I went to SUNY Purchase.
Got a BFA in dance.
From there, I started dancing with professional dance companies.
I danced with a company in Philadelphia for a few years.
I moved back to New York.
I danced with a few dance companies in New York for about 10 years.
And then I joined the national tour of Disney's The Lion King, where I stayed on the tour for about six years.
So I've had pretty much from the time I was about 11 years old, fully engaged in the arts.
Went to a performing arts high school was where I got my training.
And that was my life.
until it was time to retire when I got about 35 years of age.
And, you know, for dancers, the transition is not usually a smooth process.
Some of us have a really hard time to, you know, find out, figure out where we want to put our energy next.
because, as you know, being an artist, it takes an overwhelming amount of dedication
to the point where you're literally just focused heavily on your art
if that is what you want to pursue as your full-time passion, which is exactly what I did.
So coming out of the arts for me was definitely a little bit of a challenge.
so the first thing I thought to do was because you know being a dancer is of a very physical
nature your your artistry is your in your body is your instrument that you're using for your
artistry so it's a very physical realm for me so a natural fit for me was to move into personal
training because as a dancer you have to maintain a certain physique it's all about movement and
being shaped and, you know, conditioning the body. So it was a natural fit for me to become
a personal trainer, which is what I did after performing. Somewhere along that line, as I was
trying to, you know, expand my business, I started learning more about how we operate,
you know, as a country, our financial structure, the way businesses operate, as opposed to, you know,
working for a nonprofit, going into corporate America, it's a different setup. And you start
to learn that, okay, there are challenges that we face in the system, depending on how you are set
up in the monetary system, your form of operation, your form of creating income, how you're spending
your energy. And along that journey of learning, I found Bitcoin. And lo and behold, it was not an
easy journey. As you all know, I'm sure everyone had the same story. I found Bitcoin around late
2017. Didn't quite understand it. Number go up was what caught my attention. So later on in my
journey, as I'm starting to delve into what is money, how does money really work and how we
should all economize in our system. And you learn that, boy, there is a lot of deception.
it. And as an artist, you come from a profession where, you know, being an artist, I was fortunate
enough to work full time as an artist. But there are many artists, like a lot of my colleagues,
who, you know, it's gig to gig. It's not full time. You're supplementing your income
with different outlets and different jobs in order to sustain yourself.
and you realize that it's really not that easy.
So it takes a lot of tenacity.
It takes a lot of discipline to even want to be an artist.
So coming into Bitcoin, you learn that,
boy, we spend a lot of energy creating but not preserving.
The system that we live in is very detrimental to the artists and how we perceive and economize.
Artists create, rebuild, and we want to preserve the things that we create.
Well, I slowly begin to learn that that is not an option in the fiat system.
It is not an option for an artist to create especially an artist who doesn have the outlet to create on a full term where they doing you know part time artistry working here working there So in order to really Home your craft and be the best artist you can be
You need to be a part of a system that preserves your value.
And understanding that Bitcoin gives an artist that option, it's pretty much a no-brainer on where artists need to be, on how we need to sustain ourselves, on what it takes to get the best of our work.
and be in a position to sustain ourselves and not have to do 900 jobs so that you can spend
one hour a day being a creator. So it has been a long journey for me, 15 years as a professional
dancer, 10 years plus in the personal training space. And now I have arrived to really where I
want to be in life. And that is a Bitcoiner creating culture on a Bitcoin standard, which is
what artists need to be as successful as they can possibly be. And I consider myself to be
fortunate and blessed to have come to Bitcoin in 2017, which is not the earliest, but it certainly
isn't what we call late. No one is late at this point, but having a little bit of more insight.
And now I am in a position where I can share that insight with the rest of the arts world,
with all of my colleagues and the people that I know who are dedicated to their passion in the art,
but don't necessarily have the resources to achieve the level of success that their talent
will provide for them. So I felt a moral obligation to do something for the group of
people that matter the most to me because I can relate to them wholeheartedly what it takes
to be a successful artist. And now understanding that Bitcoin gives us the ability to spend more
time and more energy being the best creators that we can possibly be, there is no second answer.
If you are an artist, the Bitcoin standard is the only way for you to sustain yourself and propel yourself to the next level of your artistry.
So that's pretty much my story in a nutshell.
No, that's great, Dion.
And there's a lot there.
And, you know, this is a recurring theme on the show.
I've had painters on.
I've had several musicians on.
And now, you know, someone from the theater world, such as yourself, Dionne.
And it's always the same story, right?
Look, we are craftsmen and craftswomen.
We've spent our lives honing these skills.
And then we have to become accountants and hedge fund managers and do a whole bunch of odd jobs on the side.
Right.
And then where does that leave us time with what we feel we were on this planet for, our purpose, which is creating this art?
But before we get into all of that and how Bitcoin fixes this and what you're doing to fix this, I do want to go back to your Broadway days, Dion.
So, you know, you're talking about dance.
So I'm imagining these grand Broadway productions with these numbers and, you know, this entire troupe of dancers.
Was that essentially what you were doing?
You were part of one of those dancers in these grand Broadway productions.
Yeah, exactly.
That's exactly what I was doing.
And for me, I was in the touring cast, which is a little more brutal than waking up and being in stationary and going to the same theater every day.
You're going to the same theater for a period of time and then you're packing up your bags and you're going to the next city to do the same setup and the same thing again.
So the schedule is a little more brutal.
But that's essentially what I was doing.
There's a large group of actors, dancers.
We're living out of a suitcase.
We're traveling place to place.
And we're performing in usually the main opera house theater in most of the major metropolitan cities across America.
and we play these theaters for like two to six weeks at a time and we go to the next city and so
on and so on and there is no breaks we get you know a few days off holidays here or there
but it's a it's a constant schedule it's not like uh sports where you have a down season you know
it's all year long
I can imagine it's physically demanding
as well, right? I mean, it's not like
you're just walking around, I mean, even
if you're part of the, if it's a
you know, non-musical, just
an actual play and people walking
around talking, even that's
draining
especially if you're touring
with dance, I can imagine
it's a whole different
ball game there
yeah it's extremely you know it's it's a lot and then you have the fact that we get injured
so you have injuries that happen just like uh any you know basketball football player
so when that happens sometimes you you might have to do your role plus somebody else's role right
so now we have to fill in for each other we have the cover role so it's it's there is not
essentially a bitch, but what we call we have multiple casts. So like, let's say there is a
particular ballet, we call them, that is 20 to 30 minutes, and it's maybe 10 dancers in that ballet.
Well, we may have 20 dancers in the company. So we have 10 in that cast, and then the other 10
are going to learn it just in case they may have to fill in, or we'll rotate the cast. So we have
more than one cast or you have more than one person learn a particular role.
So that way you always have a backup or we can switch out the roles and give
someone a break.
So that's pretty much what every role, because, you know,
there's the saying that the show must go on.
So we have to cover everything to make sure the show goes on.
Was New York home base?
Yes, New York was home base.
For the production company as well.
Yes, New York was home base.
So, you know, we live out of the road.
You come back to New York every two or three months.
We come back.
We rehearse here in studio.
And you get ready to go back out on tour again.
So we're here for a few months.
You rehearse for maybe a month or two, depending on the schedule.
It changes a little bit.
And then you're back on the road.
What were some of the big plays?
Oh, sorry, big productions that you were involved in?
So for me, I was in the Broadway, the touring cast of Disney's The Lion King.
And that right now is the largest touring Broadway production ever.
It's a pretty big show.
A lot of moving parts.
Significant cast size.
And it's a lot of people involved.
So you have your stage crew that's in charge of setting up this production, obviously.
setting up the set, lights, making sure everything works.
You have costumes, wardrobe department that's in charge of that,
making sure that we've got everything that we need to be on the stage.
You have your hair and makeup department.
You have your musicians.
All the shows are orchestrated live.
And then you have your actors.
And we all classify the singers, dancers, actors as all as actors.
So it's large moving productions with different parts and everybody's got a role to play.
And another thing that happens is that they're all different unions.
So sometimes that can make things a little convoluted when you have different unions that all have different rules working together at the same time.
Everybody's got to get a break at a certain time and your break might not be aligned with the musician's break.
The musician's break might not be aligned with the stage crew's break.
How does anything get done?
Believe it or not, it still gets done.
One way or another, it does get done.
I thought, and maybe this is a film thing,
I thought they were called guilds.
Do you have that in theaters?
Yes.
There is the, which I was a part of as well,
the American Guild of Musical Artists.
They represent most of the orchestras that you see around the country and a lot of the dance companies that you see and a lot of the smaller theater companies.
They all are a part of the American Gail Musical Artists.
And you have a few unions.
And then for Broadway, you have what they call the Actors' Equity Association.
So that is for the Broadway actors.
That is the union that represents them.
And then for television, you have the Screen Actors Guild that represents the television actors.
And they also combine that with AFRA, which represents the television actors.
So you have the movies, television union, you have the Broadway theater union,
and then you have your regional production companies, shows, theater, dance, musical orchestras, a part of the other union.
And despite all of this, somehow magic happens.
And somehow magic happens. Yes. Somehow magic happens because artists are creators. Right.
And everybody wants to perform and showcase their talent. So we make it happen, you know.
And once it's usually the initial process, the, you know, the beginning, building the foundation for each production.
Once the productions are up and running, everything is set.
Now it's just a matter of maintaining the schedule.
Everybody show up at the right time, do your part, and the show goes on.
Yeah, I can just – that is something.
You know, Dionne, I was in the city between Christmas and New Year,
and one of the things I did with family – actually, it was on New Year's Eve.
was we went to the Joyce Theater in Chelsea.
And do you know Moses Pendleton?
Is the name familiar?
I know the name.
I haven't met him.
So Moses Pendleton created this theater.
I guess it's more of an acrobatic dance group called Momix.
Yes, I know Momix.
Okay, yeah.
So Moses Pendleton is the creative director.
and I guess the creator of it.
So they were doing their take on Alice in Wonderland.
It was just called Momix Alice.
And it's very, very loosely based on Alice in Wonderland.
And it was just remarkable witnessing that.
Because this is sort of almost a circus level of physical feats,
but with a very surreal take on Alice in Wonderland
set to some incredible music.
Really inspiring, honestly.
I mean, this is the beauty of art, right?
You never know.
Like you could be walking through the Met
and you stop in the Monet section
and you just dissolve into those paintings
for about an hour
and you come out with this incredible inspiration.
Or you go to, like what happened to me,
I went in some Alice and just looking at that level of coordination and how, you know, all of these people came together to pull off this incredible work of art, truly inspiring.
And, you know, that is for me the importance of having art, right?
It's, you know, a lot of people, especially technical people say art is a waste of time.
But I think it just it has this incredible ability to inspire people.
And that why I think it critically important that it preserved Absolutely Art is all about inspiration The artists are inspired by something to create it
And hopefully the viewer, reader, the watcher, they're all inspired by what they've just witnessed.
And that is where we get culture. That is how we create our culture.
we as the people
we learn from each other
we inspire each other
and we create
from our inspirations
and that is exactly what makes art
and that is what makes our culture
and that is what makes us unique
that is what makes us individuals
that is what makes the world go around
and we need that
because it provides us
with the ability
to feel like we are a part of something or that we can be inspired to create something.
We feel like we can contribute.
Everybody wants to contribute in some way and feel that their contribution was important
enough for at least one other person.
And that's what it means to be an artist, is to inspire, to create.
Artists are agents of change.
We want to recreate the world that we want to see.
Dion, on that point, let's just talk about the trajectory art has taken over the last few decades.
I was maybe three or four years ago.
I was at the Guggenheim with my family.
and it was so bad they had they had a massive installation result it was all contemporary art
and i walked out being the opposite of inspired because it was so nihilistic
right uh and it felt to me at the time like this is this has got to be the late or final stage of
fiat culture right it's it's people's spirits have been crushed and they're creating these
horrible grotesque things that are not meant to inspire uh as what one would expect from from art
as you know like like i mentioned monet paintings right they're just your your soul wants to fly
when you're you spend some time looking at a money or music that you like or good theater
whatever it is right and and art seemed to have taken this trajectory um where it became increasingly
nihilistic over the last few decades, almost certainly a symptom of the Fiat disease.
Did you notice that with theater as well, that sort of decline?
Absolutely.
This is all a part of my inspiration, Avi.
I have literally watched in the last year alone so many stories and articles and people
that I know who have been impacted by this fiat catastrophe. Artists are not being funded.
Artists are losing funding. And in return, like you just said, artists are creating work that
did not require a lot of time and innovation and creativity. And that's because they're
creating on a fiat standard. And I've had this conversation before. Fiat does not allow for
long-term creation because it is a system that inflates your value away. So time is of the
essence on a fiat standard when it comes to being an artist. You can see it in the culture. You can
see it all around as you can see it in the architect.
We're now building homes with 3D printers.
That's not art.
You know, we so this is what
Fiat has done to us. The architecture that
we took years and struck the first civilization in
Egypt is a beautiful art canvas that
It took centuries to build. And now we want to build it with a printer.
So this goes to show you what fiat has done to our society.
And the sad part is we don't quite understand what's happening.
A lot of us see it, but they can't pinpoint what it is.
they're looking to the left they're looking to the right but no one is looking at the system
itself and how it's designed it is designed in a way where our value has no choice
but to evaporate to be taken away from us there is no correct answer in this system
yeah and you know and this is kind of the reason why i was so pleasantly surprised by the by the
momix production because in in the midst of all this nihilism you see something beautiful you're
like is this happening is there is there a chance of a revival i don't think they're on a bitcoin
standard dion so i don't know if that's what's maybe it's not on a bitcoin standard
but let's talk about new york uh for a bit because you know just the decline and revival and so on
that topic. And New York really
is the
or one of the, if not the, seat of
art and culture in the world.
Certainly the country, but probably the
world as well, right? Especially in the
last 50 to 100
years.
Every artist that
considers himself an
artist wants
to experience what art is like in
New York City. Every
artist wants to
be on display, on showcase, on a stage in New York City.
Every artist wants to propel themselves to the top in the mecca of the arts capital.
But unfortunately, the system that we're in is destroying it.
the artists in new york 60 of artists in new york live below the poverty line
that is a catastrophe wow living we already know that new york is one of the most expensive cities
to live in in the world in general so imagine being an artist not working full-time as an artist
and trying to survive in New York City,
it's not easy.
It's not for the faint of heart.
You know, in order to be an artist,
you also have to have courage.
You know, artists have to be brave souls.
You have to really step out.
You're stepping out and you're taking a serious chance
with your survival.
Because your art, your passion for what you do
Is that great that you're willing to sacrifice almost everything?
And when I say almost everything, I literally mean almost everything, because I know artists that have lost relationships with their families, with their friends, because they have distanced themselves and isolated themselves in spaces where they could just hone in on their craft.
At the expense of everything else that matters to them.
so being an artist it really you know it it takes a lot and bitcoin can really help us
but you know on on the topic of new york itself i talked about this all a few months back that
new york almost has this 40 30 to 40 year difficulty adjustment type thing built into it where
you know you have a boom and uh usually driven by artists right because they build up the culture
then and things get better and then your money starts coming in you have all the yuppies from
new jersey usually that's what happens they move in they they price everyone out uh the artist can't
afford it anymore and and then for you know whatever happened for whatever reason there's a
bust, the rents crash, and then the artists can move back in.
But, you know, these cycles take 30 to 40 years to play out almost like it's kind of
akin to Bitcoin's difficulty adjustment, right?
If there's too much hash rate, then the difficulty ramps up.
If the hash rate drops off, then the difficulty drops.
But, you know, I've actually been pleasantly surprised, I have to say, Dion, with New York
in the last six to eight months, maybe even one year.
Because I thought the crash was coming, right?
It was after the pandemic.
This is it.
This is, you know, the city is going to hit rock bottom
and then it's going to bounce back up.
But that rock bottom never seemed to come.
And, you know, the city seems reasonably safe, honestly.
And, you know, I was able to experience some good art
and theater and all of that.
But I don't know if that's just a lull before the storm.
What do you think now there's a new administration in the city with some very interesting views, let's just say, on how to fix some of the problems in the city.
Do you see a resurgence anytime soon or is there this slow, inexorable decline to rock bottom and then we move back?
I mean, that is such a good question and such a hard question to answer.
Because, like, I really believe that we are in the quiet before the storm.
And I'll tell you why.
The reason that we don't have a lot of the violence or, you know, crime rate seems to be down is because we are becoming a sick, ill society.
and it's hard to be violent
and enraged when you're sick.
You can't be both at the same time.
What I'm noticing is that
there's a rise in mental health issues.
There's a rise in the homeless population.
We all know there's a rise in the unemployment levels.
so we've become a sick nation too weak for even violence
this fiat is eroding us
but at some point people will break right at some point people will break when they come to the
point where it's now about, do I have anything to eat
today? That's when we get the other side.
That's when we get the civil chaos.
And hopefully we won't get there.
Hopefully the decision makers that have been
recently elected will start making better decisions
and looking at the results of the past
decisions, because I think that's one of the biggest problems that we have in our state
operations is that there's not enough research on the past decisions and the outcomes of the
past decisions.
We focus heavily on what to do next, but we never look back and say, well, what was the
outcome of the last decision?
And I think that is something that we've got to start doing more of.
because, yeah, like you said, we have not hit the bottom.
There is definitely hope.
You see it.
Artists are resilient.
One thing about artists is that it's hard to know if we're at rock bottom anyway
because artists are very good at pretending.
That's kind of second nature to their industry.
so sometimes it's very hard to tell what the real underlying truth might be
but at some point it will show itself so i don't know when that time will be like you said we're
doing some smooth sailing right now we're hiding a lot of bruises and a lot of bumps and we're
keeping the train moving but i don't know i feel like there's a possibility we could jump the track
sooner than later.
And when we jump the track, you know,
go ahead.
No, no.
We won't see it coming.
Yeah.
You know, I have this fantasy,
and maybe it not a fantasy Dion Maybe this will become reality in the next few years that there will be a cultural revival driven by Bitcoin and Harlem will be the epicenter of it
Because it feels like anywhere downtown,
whether it's the West Village, East Village, Lower East Side,
Tribeca, all of these, Chelsea, whatever it is, right?
Soho, which you would associate with, I guess, cultural movements.
They seem a bit saturated.
And I think it's time for Harlem to have that moment.
I mean, what is it?
It's been about 100 years since the last major country.
Yes, I agree.
I can see that happening in Harlem as well,
because Harlem has definitely become a very diverse community,
as it was previously, you know, many, many, many, many, many, many years ago.
And now it's coming back.
And you can see there's a lot of different culture happening in Harlem.
And it's a very trending neighborhood.
So, yes, it would be wonderful to see the arts renaissance come back and happen in Harlem.
But I think it's going to happen on the Bitcoin standard.
I believe Bitcoin isn't going to lead the way because we're using, obviously, a sound money to create sound culture.
And that's what we have to show the world.
Artists have to show the world how to move forward.
We have to show them the best way to move forward.
It is up to the world of art to create the culture, to inspire the people.
It's not the politicians.
Politicians are supposed to represent our interests.
Well, the artists are here to create our interests.
And we have to represent that.
We have to show it.
We have to give that to the people so the people will be inspired and know that Bitcoin gives us an opportunity and a way to preserve ourselves.
We don't understand the significance of having preservation.
And artists will allow us to do that because we love artwork.
We love art.
We love old artwork.
We love classic work.
What makes a word classic?
The ability to preserve.
And how do we get the ability to preserve? We have to have a sound culture and a sound system to allow that type of behavior. Right now, we are losing our ability to preserve. We won't have any classics.
but Bitcoin gives us that potential to bring that back
to create the next renaissance in art
and this is where my inspiration
for the Bitcoin for the art comes in
Let's talk about that Dion
I was actually going to get to that as well
Let's talk about what was the driving force behind it
where Bitcoin for the Arts,
well, what is Bitcoin for the Arts
and then where it stands today
and what are your plans for it
or this year?
So as of right now,
Bitcoin for the Arts
is a pending 501c3
that is going to support artists,
arts institutions
and nonprofits alike
with micro grants
as of now
with Bitcoin.
What we want to do is create the next renaissance in art on the Bitcoin standard.
What is our vision?
To replace and be the national endowment for the arts on the Bitcoin standard.
The way we are going to structure this organization will allow us to eventually be able to self-supplement our artists and allow us to continue to create from previous preserved funding that does not lose value over time.
We are starting as a domestic U.S.-based company, but we want to be completely aligned with Bitcoin on a global standard to eventually support artists around the globe using Bitcoin.
Because Bitcoin gives us the ability to transact and interact and inspire peer to peer on a global scale without any intermediaries, without any third parties, without any agencies in the middle of the artists and the patron.
So that is what Bitcoin for the Arts will represent.
My inspiration comes purely from me being a passionate artist and understanding the overwhelming amount of energy, time, creativity, passion, discipline it takes to make it as an artist.
and then understanding the landscape of the economy, of the ecosystem that the artists have to deal with when we go out into the world and how people treat artists.
Artists are the most exploited group of people on this planet, constantly being taken advantage of, constantly losing value, never truly owning their own creations.
I mean, I can't tell you what it feels like, but for the general population, if you're not an artist, can I tell you what it feels like to be passionate and take your time and energy to create something only for someone else to be in charge of it?
I mean, that is like the bottom of the pit for an artist.
And still we rise, still we fight, still we go on to create the next creation.
Well, Bitcoin is going to allow us to take control over the things that we create for us to be in possession of those things,
To not have to sell our souls in order to survive because we now have the ability to preserve.
I can create this piece of work and I can take my time and I can work on it.
I can make it better. I can modify it because I have time to use my energy and to use my thoughts to create the best thing possible.
That's what Bitcoin is going to allow us to do.
And I also want to use this organization to help artists understand how to survive economically.
Artists, we spend so much time working on our craft.
90% of artists are financially illiterate.
It is another reason why artists are highly taken advantage of.
Because they're so passionate about their work that they literally sell their souls.
They give up everything just to have their work shown.
Bitcoin gives us the ability to not have to understand all of the languages, all of the characters, all of the nuances, all of the strategies, all of these different conglomerate things that they put together in the fiat structured economy.
We can avoid all of that.
We can preserve our value, focus our energy on our creations, which is already what we're doing.
But at the same time, be economically savvy. That is what I want to do.
That is what I want to teach artists how to do.
So one of the main things that we want to do in addition to providing artists with grants is we want to educate artists on why Bitcoin.
We have an exception in our website dedicated to why Bitcoin, because artists really need to understand.
Because once they understand.
There will be.
No excuses, no exceptions.
You understand that in order for you to do the best work you want to do, you're going to have to be on a Bitcoin standard.
So this is where we are.
This is why we need Bitcoin for the arts on a global scale to publicly get the message of what Bitcoin is, why Bitcoin matters, and allow Bitcoin to create the next renaissance in art on sound money and a sound culture.
That's what we're here to do.
I love that, Dion.
And I think this is much needed.
So let's talk about, you mentioned you want this to be the next or eventually evolve into the next endowment, national endowment for the arts.
But it needs to start somewhere, right?
It needs to start somewhere.
And we'll talk about the mechanism for funding and we can make a concrete example.
But before we even get to that, have you talked to people, potential patrons?
In the sermon, I talked about the Medici of this era need to step forth.
Are there people stepping forward saying we want to be part of this revolution, this renaissance?
We will contribute to this endowment?
As of right now, I have a lot of artists who are highly interested.
Obviously, artists, you know, they want to be funded.
But what I focused on in the last month, Avi, is really building the structure.
So now we are at a point now where I want to really fully engage those patrons who can help us get to that standard.
Now we are ready to fully engage those patrons to help them understand what artists need.
The artists have already been coming.
They've seen the message. They know we're here. They're asking questions. They want to know when. They want to know how long do they have to wait. They're highly excited. They got ideas. They want to fund. They want to put on showcases.
We've got tons of ideas for Artist Bitcoin Night, for Artist Education Seminars, for Teaching Youth.
So that is in place. But what we do not have is those patrons that we really, really need.
To help us get to that level that we want to get to.
And I need these patrons to really understand that what we are offering is the only inflation proof, censorship resistant funding pipeline for culture that has ever existed.
We would love you, patronage, but we don't want you to think of us as a charity.
we want you to think of us as the way forward to creating the next renaissance and we want you to
be a part of that this is what we need no that makes complete sense right it's uh and and you
know for most people who understand this who get this idea it's then it's not about the return on
investment certainly not right if they have that medici mindset especially it's about creating and
shaping the culture and their legacy enduring as well in the process.
So, yes, you're creating a lifetime legacy because you're funding art that will outlive us all.
And your name will be there as a representative of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
So are you looking primarily at Bitcoiners who will get it immediately, right?
If someone's a Bitcoiner and they're in a position to be a patron, they'll understand this and they'll be willing to step forward.
Or are you looking to talk to general art patrons and tell them the Bitcoin story and make them understand that this is the only way forward?
I'm looking for all artists.
We want all artists.
The Bitcoin artists are our prime examples of what it could be like on a Bitcoin standard for artists.
So we want to partner with the artists who have found Bitcoin and use them to highlight for the other artists who have not found Bitcoin,
which is the majority of the arts world, and help them understand how.
how Bitcoin can better serve them and what they do.
So we're going to use and help our Bitcoin artists,
but we want our Bitcoin artists to help us expand the horizon.
Well, Dion, my question, and that makes complete sense as well.
What I was trying to get at is more on the patron side, right?
There are people on Bitcoiners with deep pockets
who will understand the vision, right?
once it's presented to them.
And they might be willing to,
I think they'll be happy to contribute.
I suspect some of them listen to the show as well.
But so is that your, for patronage,
are you looking for folks like those Bitcoiners to participate?
Or are you looking at maybe people
in the broader art patronage world
who might not be familiar with Bitcoin,
but you can then sell them the vision of patronage
on a Bitcoin standard.
and how that is the only way forward, and try to get them into the fold.
My goal, Avi, is to meet everyone where they are.
I love my Bitcoiners.
I'm looking to you for support right off the top.
And then we need to branch off into our fiat lovers
and help them understand, we will take your fiat.
I'm not going to tell people that fiat is not usable.
It certainly is usable because I can use fiat to buy Bitcoin.
So we love you to donate in whatever form suits you best.
Bitcoiners, please lead the way.
Help us get influence, the fiat patrons who are patrons of the art but have never used Bitcoin.
Obviously those are probably the biggest art supporters
So we definitely want those people
But what I'm looking for is to
Support from the Bitcoin community
Financial support
And examples of what it's like
We need to lead by example
I'm looking for Bitcoiners to lead by example
to show the FI community what it would be like
to donate to art on a Bitcoin standard.
Your donations are not only transparent
because now they're on Bitcoin,
but we're going to make it so that you can see
exactly what you're funding.
And your value is being preserved.
It's not a project that you funded
for, you know, a 15 minute showcase that you've never seen, you never heard of, you don't know
exactly where the money went, you know, you just heard about something. Now we're going to give you
access to our donation wallet. We want our patrons to see exactly what their funding is going towards
so that maybe they will be inspired to give more because now they can actually see
how they're helping, how they are helping build this culture and create the change agents that
we need to get us to a Bitcoin standard. You know, we want to change the entire landscape of
donating. So it's not just a tax write-off, but it is an idea that you are supporting,
that you can witness, that you can actually see building. You can see it being created.
You can go back to it later. It's there. The value has been preserved. It was not done in a quick
in a hurry timeframe because if we didn't get it done now, the funding is going to dry up and it's
not going to be worth as much. No, we're going to keep the value. So that gives us the ability
to make it really worth something. So add a lot of quality and density into what we're doing.
So we want to be the transparent organization that you can see your funding building, creating everlasting projects and work.
From Bitcoiners, from the fiat patrons, from the, you know, met season ticket holders who've never dialed into Bitcoin.
Well, we want to invite you to an artist Bitcoin night featuring an artist who's already found Bitcoin and allow them to share their story with you on how Bitcoin has sustained them and changed their life.
And then allow these patrons to slowly begin to understand that we love art.
But are we supporting art in the best way we can possibly support artists?
Once they understand that there is a better way for them to contribute to the artists that work that they've already been doing, man, I think we've got the golden ticket.
Yeah, that sounds like it.
Dion, we're just a little over the hour mark, and I think this is a good time for our Value for Value music segment.
And, you know, we've been talking about some of the absurdity that arises because of fiat in the art world.
I mean, just in the broader culture, even.
And then sometimes you find a track that just captures it, right?
Captures the absurdity of the timeline we're living in.
This song, which I'm about to play, is certainly not rock and is decidedly not pop.
it's something else entirely
it's theatrical
it's dissonant
and it's called Nonsensical
by Frankie Peroni
open your mind
for this one
it's about to get weird
Waiting for the oxymoron man
Arriving in his paper machine van
Holding on to handles made of sand
While eating Marmite monkeys from a can
The Sherpard Bon Bon Jelly Baby wore
A multi-coloured biscuit dinosaur
Standing in high
Waiting in time
Watching champagne penguins drinking wine
Outside in
The ending now begins
A camel urine cocktail
Predominantly gin
Oh, I'm being home
Sensified, beyond control
CNC wood
MUSIC PLAYS
I'm not a nut.
An every vicious educator grant.
The alligator's graduation day.
Congratulations, sir.
The custom bacon sandwich hat.
You're a scullo.
Standing around, waiting in time.
Watching campaign penguins drinking cream I sign in The ending of me I can Stinking coin outside in in in out we go A camel a wine cocktail predominantly chin
Oh, I'm being alone, satisfied, behind control.
I'm not sensitive
Standing in line, waiting in time
Watching champagne penguins drinking wine
Outside in, the ending of the game
A camelline cocktail, predominantly gin
Oh, I'm being alone
Satisfied
Beyond your joy
Nonsense to you
guitar solo
That was Nonsensical by Frankie Peroni.
if David Bowie and the Cardiacs grudgingly got together to compose a background score for a
torture scene in a David Lynch movie in 1989 this is what it would have sounded like and I mean that
as the highest possible compliment it sounds like 1989 it sounds like a fever dream it's bold
artistic choices like that, the willingness to be jarring that I love about this open music
ecosystem. No algorithm would ever recommend that to you, but a human curator would. I've got 90%
splits set up for the song. If you enjoyed that trip into the surreal, hit that rewind button by
a minute or two and send Frankie a big fat boost. Dion, what did you think of that?
I actually loved it. I honestly have to say, you know, as a dancer, immediately,
when you hear those single chords right off the top, the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
you almost start choreographing.
I start choreographing right away in my head.
So this is what I mean about being an artist.
Artists inspire each other.
So thank you, Frankie.
I don't know you,
but I've just been inspired by your music.
And if I had a stage in front of me
or if I was in a studio,
I would have created some movement
to go along with that music.
Well, you know,
I was thinking that too
as I was listening to the song.
is that this could have been part of maybe not a Broadway show,
maybe an off-Broadway or an off-off-Broadway with people wearing,
right, one of those surreal productions with people wearing rabbit ears
and dancing around.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I could create a whole scene off of it.
Absolutely.
You just did it, yes.
Great stuff.
This is what I love about art, you know.
So on a Bitcoin standard, I could work with Frankie
and we can take time to develop this into a whole production.
I think he was brought into this open music ecosystem,
this value-for-value ecosystem by Aaron of Essex,
who's a friend of the show.
Aaron, if you're listening, you heard what Dion said.
The offer is open.
Reach out to your friend Frankie Peroni
and ask him if he wants to work with Dion
to make nonsensical into a dance production.
There we go.
You know, I mentioned Off-Broadway Dion,
and that reminded me,
I moved to New York as a boy, really,
a very young man in 2002.
And one of the earliest things,
I was in university then,
one of the things I was exploring
was theater, right?
Because where I came from,
there wasn't that much theater
and I obviously heard all about
the amazing theater in New York.
Broadway as a student was completely out of,
even back then, right?
20, 25 years ago,
was financially out of reach.
Off-Broadway was still,
I mean, you know,
we're talking about 8th Avenue at this point, right?
Which is Broadway's, you know,
Broadway and 7th is where the big,
7th Avenue is where the, you know,
the big production theaters are and then off broadway is eighth avenue which is supposed to be
a little cheaper but not really right not really uh and and then you get into the the the i guess
the i don't know if any anyone really calls it off off broadway and off off off broadway when you get
into the 11th and 12th avenue but that's where i would go and back i don't know if you remember
Hell's Kitchen back in, or Clinton, back in 2002, was not a good neighborhood.
No, not at all.
I had to step over drug addicts with needles sticking out of their arms to get into the theater.
And I watched some of the best plays I've ever seen.
Yes, exactly.
You literally, you just said it, stepping over drug addicts to get to the theater to watch the best shows in town.
I mean, that's New York.
That's the fiat standard.
When you have something beautiful right next to a failing situation,
that can only happen on a fiat standard.
But there's been an interesting evolution of Hell's Kitchen and that area, right,
in the last 20 years,
because it got very gentrified.
The other side of the ad,
which is you had all the money
from the Gulf countries and Russia
and all these high rises came up there,
luxury high rises,
which no one lives in, by the way, right?
Ghost apartments, penthouses
that go for whatever,
$100 million, which no one lives in.
Has that sort of the development
of Hell's Kitchen and the Clinton area
had an impact on Broadway and, you know, off Broadway and so on?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, like you said, the gentrification of the neighborhood
has obviously allowed different groups to now be exposed
to what's happening in the neighborhood.
Because if you weren't maybe an artist or, you know,
someone who supported the art, maybe you'd have even really went to that,
You know, a lot of the Hell's Kitchen, you know, those 47th, 8th, 9th, 10th Avenue walking over towards that direction.
Most people, you know, they stay in a Times Square block.
So, you know, having those neighborhoods be gentrified.
And then even like you said, they moved a lot of the opera shows now on 42nd Street going towards 10th Avenue.
There's a few theaters right there and they made them nice.
They've integrated them into some of the new construction buildings there.
So it's nice.
It's more presentable.
And one thing else that you mentioned, you know, you said that the ticket prices are pretty much in line, you know, not really that much of a difference.
That's very true.
And at the very same time that those ticket prices are about the same, the artist's pay is not.
There a significant difference Where the money going Where that money going that the question prices are the same but the artists are not reaping the same benefits so this is what i mean when i say
artists are highly exploited it's things of this nature and because we love what we do so much
we take it
because we want that opportunity
that opportunity which is hard
to come by because there's so
many of us especially here in New York
that we
sacrifice it all just for that opportunity
for that
moment of an opportunity
because that moment may not
even be beneficial in the long run
it just may just be a
specific moment in time
that makes you feel great.
But as an artist, you want that moment in time
to help you create the next moment in time.
That's the goal, but it doesn't always happen like that.
Yeah.
So Dion, let's go back to what we were talking about
with Bitcoin for the Arts.
And let's say you find the patrons
and you're able to raise a certain amount of money
that can, let's say, support different media, right?
We're not just talking about theater.
We're talking about painters.
We're talking about musicians and so on.
So let's take a concrete example.
Let's say there's an, you know,
we just played an independent musician.
There's so many incredibly talented
independent musicians that are out there.
And, you know, maybe they have a little bit of equipment,
but they can't afford a studio, right?
I mean, to rent a studio,
especially in a place like New York
or any other big cities is out of reach the average musician.
And maybe you need a week of studio time
to be able to do a proper recording session.
And let's just, I'm going to make some numbers up.
Let's say that to get an album from concept to release,
making sure the recording is of a high quality,
then you need to pay someone to do the mixing
and the mastering and all of that, right?
You can't expect the guitar player
to be able to do all of those things as well.
It is a very complicated process.
Let's just say it costs, I'm just making a number of five grand, right?
And so how does a band who, let's say they're trying to raise that to release their album,
they come to Bitcoin for the Arts.
How does that conversation work?
They say they put their application in front of you or in front of the decision-making committee.
It's not just going to be you.
It's going to be like an open sat thing, right?
But it's going to be, you know, a certain number of people who evaluate applications.
So walk me through how you're envisioning that process.
So the way I envision that process, this is very good.
I'm glad you mentioned this.
They fill out the application.
So these are artists that want to do an album.
They've got their budget.
They know exactly how much it's going to cost them.
these different items that they've got to pay for, the producer, the studio time, the sound engineer.
I want to see what have you previously done?
What work have you done on your own that you've been able to get to full production?
From there, our committee, which we'll start off with, you know, if we select board members because we're small, but eventually we want to open this up to allow our members, patrons, to be a part of the selection process because we're like Bitcoin.
We're decentralized.
We're open to everyone's participation.
This is Bitcoin for the Arts for everyone.
I just so happen to be the person that brought it to the forefront.
But it is for every artist.
It is for every patron to decide what type of projects they would like to fund.
So these artists, they come to us and they've got a list.
They've got previous projects.
They've shown us their work.
They have a budget.
They know what they need and they know what they're missing.
So we consider all of those things.
And then depending on where we are in our ability to give, we can decide how much of that particular project can we afford to fund.
If it's a studio project, like you mentioned, that takes maybe a couple of weeks or, you know, to do sometimes these projects and maybe even take a couple of months.
You know, it could take a you could spend a month just putting together one song.
So you might need funding over a period of time.
So another thing we would want to do with a project like this is maybe we give you some initial Bitcoin funding to help you get the project going.
You're in the studio, you're creating. Now you've reached a point where you need to pay for more studio time.
You need to re-up your balances with all of your team and these people.
So now we're in a position we can maybe offer you more funding to help along with the project.
And like I said, this is all hypothetical because we don't know exactly what our numbers may be.
But what I would like to be able to do is if we believe that artist has a project that is in line with creative, long-term thinking that will, this music that we could see, like Frankie's music, you said it sounds like it's from 1980s.
and it's relevant in 2025, which would be 40, 35 years later,
well, that's the kind of project that we want to participate in.
That aligns with the Bitcoin ethos.
That's the kind of stuff that Bitcoin for the Arts wants to say,
we helped create this.
So that's how I would initially look at funding a project like this.
So actually, so you mentioned giving the artists Bitcoin.
And before that, a short while back, you said there's going to be an entire sort of arm of the organization that's going to be about educating artists about Bitcoin.
But a ground reality here is a lot of the bills, the studio bills, like a sound engineer, the studio rental itself, they don't accept Bitcoin.
So let's say you give the artist $5,000 in Bitcoin, whatever that is.
Let's just say roughly 5 million sats at today's conversion price.
They'll then have to, for many of their bills, likely have to convert it into fiat to pay their vendors, suppliers, and so on, correct?
That's correct.
And we want to help them understand all the tools.
Now, this is where the education comes in.
There are multiple tools right now that will allow artists to live on a Bitcoin standard.
And that's where the education comes in for us to not just fund these artists, but help show them the way.
Because, yes, these other people that they're working with, they may have zero interest in Bitcoin.
OK, so we're going to take those Bitcoin. We're going to show you this option is called BitRefill.
Maybe there's a prepaid card that the studio will take, prepaid visa that we can use to pay them with a credit card.
Maybe there's some tools or supplies that you need that we could purchase on Amazon.
And we could use Bitcoin to buy an Amazon gift card.
And now we can use that gift card to purchase the supplies that you need.
Maybe there is somebody that you need to fly in to be a part of this production.
And they need funding to pay for a flight.
The flight, the airline does not take Bitcoin.
Well, there are options for airlines that have prepaid cards.
We can use Bitcoin to buy a British Airways card.
We can use Bitcoin to buy American Airlines card.
So there are workarounds to make a lot of these things happen.
And that where educating the artist is so important on how to use Bitcoin Because right now there are some challenges There are some things that makes Bitcoin not as a one easy just go
But we're going to help you.
And then along the way, there are other Bitcoiners that are working to advance Bitcoin.
So at some point, things will be going to be more easy to use.
There'll be better operating standards, better ways of transferring Bitcoin.
Maybe at some point when these other people that are working with you on your team see how you are conducting and operating on a Bitcoin standard.
Well, maybe you just might orange pill someone.
maybe we might just create a little bit of a mass adoption
by being artists on a Bitcoin standard
and people seeing how we operate.
So there are tools that we can use to help those artists
truly take advantage of Bitcoin all the way around.
Yeah, I think it's a great opportunity
for even Bitcoin developers
to showcase their tools as well
and then educate the artists.
Everything you mentioned, right?
Gift cards, airline.
Right, yeah.
But speaking of tools,
I was just thinking about it.
Because we're in the Bitcoin world
and there's so many options here.
I wonder, I mean, I know it's a non-profit,
so this is probably a little bit of thought.
but in that musician example
it's easy to
envision right and they release their music
as in this open music
ecosystem value for value ecosystem
and the song automatically goes
on Fountain it goes on Wavelick it goes
on all these other
value for value music apps and then when they get
zapped
you know maybe
there's something to think about is
think about a zap split
or something or a
boost split so that when the
sats come in, a small percentage
goes back into the foundation
itself. I don't know.
Here's the thing, right?
Because we're using tools
that are open source tools that are
outside of the fiat system, there's
any number of ways in which you
could take this?
Avi,
you just came up with a beautiful idea.
This is what I
love about being a big coiner and
being involved with
creators. I can't do this by myself. So this is what we need. We need a team of people to come up
with all the different ideas and ways that we can use Bitcoin, bring it back to us, send it out to
them. So that's wonderful. Absolutely. That's a great idea. That gives the artists more exposure.
That gives Bitcoin for the arts more exposure. That gives Bitcoin more exposure.
So eventually we get to sell money on sound culture all the way around.
We get there. All of these things.
The tools to pay for things in Bitcoin, the platforms, the Zap streams, the things, the nostras.
Yes, these are outlets for artists. More artists need to come to these outlets. More artists need to use Nostrum. I don't think most of them know about it. So they don't know about Bitcoin. There's certainly only a fraction of them that understand what Nostrum is and how that tool can be used to better serve them.
so there is a lot of corners for us to uncover there's a lot of this oh
yeah i could talk for another hour about all the different ways we could probably try to engage
people and these artists in the bitcoin space no yeah we certainly can but i will say this though
that i i just don't see how this happens without nostr nostr is the place right and it's it's
growing, the tools are improving.
Yes.
It's like, you know, all the benefits.
We have to use these tools to our advantage.
Definitely.
These tools are there to help propel the artist.
Absolutely.
We have to use Nostra.
Yeah.
We have to use Lightning.
We have to use BitCore.
We have to use these tools.
And we will.
They're there for us.
Yes.
All right.
Dion, I appreciate you taking the time.
without realizing it, in the blink of an eye,
we're at the 90-minute mark.
How about it?
Now, really appreciate this conversation
and really appreciate what you're doing,
taking the initiative the way you are,
bringing this much-needed Bitcoin for the Arts,
this nonprofit into existence.
I'm going to do everything I can to help you with this.
I help you find patrons.
If there are patrons listening to this show, which I suspect there are,
please consider participating in this renaissance, really.
And then you can reach out to Dion.
You can reach out to me.
I can help connect.
And let's make this happen.
Dion, I really appreciate everything you're doing in this space.
It's inspiring.
Thank you.
I'm just inspired by the people around me. And I'm doing this because I have the support from other Bitcoiners. I wouldn't be doing this if this was not a Bitcoin space. I wouldn't be doing this without the support of the Bitcoin community. That's what makes all of this worth it.
Like, I don't even feel like I'm doing anything.
I feel like this is, like I said, a moral obligation of being a good person and understanding that if I know and have access to a better way, then you should share that with the next person.
Indeed.
Any final thing for our audience, Dion?
Where can they find out more about Big Gun for the Arts?
Any call to action?
If someone listening here has been inspired by this conversation and says, yes, I want to be part of this, whether they're the patron, whether they're an artist, whether there's someone who can just lend a hand, their labor in making this real, what can they do?
Where do you want to send them?
Please go to BitcoinForTheArts.org.
We have a form that you can fill out to volunteer.
we have a form that you can fill out to nominate someone who you think that they would be a great
fit to work with us and of course you can donate and you can reach out to me on
Nostra you can reach out to me on x at orange pill man um I am readily here available you can
reach out to Avi on all of his platforms and we will get in touch with you one way or another
we need your support artists bitcoiners let's chase the world
love it thank you dion appreciate that and thank you to our live stream audience for listening
if you can stick around i will be airing a nostra premiere of finding home the paraguay episode
in a short while, just a little over 20 minutes at 6 p.m. Eastern.
That's 2300 UTC, which I'm pretty certain is a first ever for NOSTA
to have a show, a TV show premiere here.
And if you are listening to the recorded episode,
and I hope you're doing so on a podcasting 2.0 app such as Fountain,
you can either catch a rerun of this Finding Home stream
this Sunday, January 18 at 1900 UTC, 2 p.m. Eastern Time, airing right after my episode of
Sunday Brunch. Rod Palmer from The Bitcoin Bugle is going to be my guest for that one.
And folks, this is a value for value production. If you enjoyed what you heard, if you were inspired,
amused, or otherwise transported to a more desirable state of being than before you hit play,
please consider zapping the show on Noster or boosting the episode on your favorite
podcasting 2.0 app your support and generosity go a long way in keeping the show ad free
until next week stay sovereign
you