Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses
on the intersection of NOSTER and Bitcoin protocols.
Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current
thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,
doers, and plebs.
All right, we are live.
Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the lightning-laced airwaves.
Today is Friday, the 14th of November, and it is 10.59am on the east coast of the United States at the time of recording.
This is episode 137 of PlepJane Radio.
We have a fun one ahead of you today.
LadyBlockJane, a.k.a. Yenna
Artist and pioneer
Joins us to talk about her artistic journey
And much, much more
And a reminder folks
If you are listening to this show on Apple or Spotify
First of all, thank you for listening
But I would urge you to hit pause
And switch over to the Fountain Podcasting app
Where you can earn some sats
And support the value-for-value revolution
While you listen
And while you're there
on Fountain, we would appreciate it if you hit that subscribe button. Your support helps keep
our mics warm and this podcast ad-free. The show is streamed live on zap.stream and any other Noster
client that supports streaming such as Amethyst, Noster, Fountain and Primal. And folks, my new
novel, the sequel to my first one, 24, this one is called July 18th, July 18, will be released this
Sunday, November 16th. That is two days from the time of recording. I did not write a book about
Bitcoin. I wrote a surrealist literary and philosophical epic about the world it makes
possible. A story of a young man's brutal psychological transformation, a Joyce-ian
dive into the soul and the search for a truth that endures. I do hope you get a copy. It will
be available on all the fiat platforms like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc. And I'm working on setting up
Bitcoin payments to purchase it directly from my website. That one's going to take a few weeks as
it's a somewhat involved process. I will be at BitFest in Manchester next week. That one runs
from November 21st to 23rd. And there I will be doing the first book signing for July 18.
21 copies only, and they will all contain a handwritten correction due to a minor publishing
issue that I ran into. It's just six extra words in there, handwritten, that possibly,
possibly mean everything.
And BitFest itself will be three days of amazing
Nostra, Bitcoin, film and art.
And I'm genuinely looking forward to being there,
participating on the panels and the talks
and meeting friends old and making new ones.
I hope to see some or many of you there.
Please use discount code PLEBCHAINRADIO, one word,
for Lab Chain Radio for 10% off tickets.
And Nosfabrica, the company I founded with Vitor Pamplona, John Gordon,
and recently David Strahorn, is kicking off its second hackathon of the year.
And we're calling this one a Whatathon.
We're inviting builders from all walks of Noster to participate
and build open source web of trust solutions.
The prize pool is 50 million sats.
You heard that right, 50, 5-0, million sats,
or as the kids these days like to call it, 50 million bitcoins.
This, I believe, is the largest bitcoin prize pool that I'm aware of in recent memory.
For more info on Nosfabrica and the Wattathon,
please go to nosfabrica.com slash Wattathon.
That's W-O-T-A-T-H-O-N
To learn more about Nosfabrica itself
You can listen to my Plep Chain Radio episode number 133
From just about a month ago in mid-October
When I had David Strayhorn on the show
And for our sermon today
I'd like to talk about the Hegelian arc of art
I want to talk about art not as an academic exercise, but as a living thing that keeps trying to remember what it is.
If you zoom out, you see a kind of Hegelian arc to the last couple of centuries.
So first, here is the thesis.
You can call it, and I certainly do, classicalism.
This is the long age leading up to, oh, let's pick a random year, 1913.
I wonder why I picked that year.
Anyway, in that classicalist world leading up to 1913, art was about the pursuit of beauty.
Painters, composers, architects, poets, they were all in some way in service to the beautiful.
But that beauty came wrapped in dogma
Rules about perspective, rules about subject matter
Rules about who got to speak and how
Beauty yes, but beauty in a corset
Then came the antithesis, modernism
At first, it kept the core principles of beauty
But turned its attention to smashing that corset
Dali melting clocks
Breton's manifestos
Bunuel's razor slicing the eye of polite society
Art deco skyscrapers
French new wave films
cutting holes in narrative itself
It was a jailbreak
Modernism said
If beauty is real, it doesn't need a dress code
But something happened
Again, let's just pick another random date
1971
I wonder why I picked that random date
The rebellion ossified into its own dogma
The cutting edge discovered that it was easier to destroy than to build
Easier to sneer than to sing
The pursuit of beauty gave way to the performance of boredom
The cult of irony
The worship of nothing
We slid into late-stage modernism, where the highest praise you can give a work is that it interrogates something, preferably while being impossible to love.
So that's where we are now, surrounded by content, starving for beauty.
So what's the synthesis?
The synthesis is what I call true postmodernism
Not the academic word salad we've been sold
But a genuine third stage
A Bitcoin renaissance
The dogma of classicalism is gone
The nihilism of late stage modernism has burned itself out
What's left is the possibility of a clean slate
A new unbridled pursuit of beauty
built on hope, aspiration, and low time preference.
Low time preference means we plant trees whose shade we may never sit under.
It means cathedrals and temples, not pop-up booths.
It means songs and stories and films that might still matter in 50 years,
not just for the algorithm's next refresh cycle.
Bitcoin is teaching us to think in those terms again,
to build on bedrock instead of quicksand.
In this synthesis, we don't go back.
We don't pretend the 20th century didn't happen.
We keep the technical mastery of the classical,
the experimental courage of the modern,
and we throw away the fear, the despair,
the cynicism, and the hollow irony.
We dare to say, without embarrassment,
that art should be beautiful and that beauty should be true.
If money can be fixed, culture can be healed.
And when culture heals, beauty comes roaring back.
And on today's show, I'm happy to talk to someone who is a pioneer in this new synthesis.
Yenna, welcome to Pleb Chain Radio.
Hello, Avi.
Well, it's great to have you.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yes, can you hear me?
Yeah, hello.
Yes, can hear you loud and clear.
So, Yenna, for people who might know your art, but not your story, how would you introduce yourself these days?
Who is Yenna or Lady Blockchain?
Jane.
I live in Switzerland, and my background is I'm a tattoo artist since school time, actually
since 21 years.
And I had to stop and close my shop, and because I always lived from an art.
I just a painter and I do Bitcoin artworks that I expose on conferences now since two years
Love it.
So, you know, you said you're Swiss,
and you move from these very grounded European roots,
let's say,
to this almost cosmic Bitcoin art vibe.
how did you first fall in love with art and then how did bitcoin come into that story
art yeah
i maybe was not so like studying art history or falling in love with art that way but
i found i had a talent and i could find ways to make my life with it
and I can't say it was just one special moment it's just my way of being and
it's more other people than saying oh you are the artist and it's just like
feel like I more accepted it than and it's something that I choose for myself but then was
like yeah it's also a good choice to to accept it to have a talent and and everyone sees it in you
and then gives you this way to be an artist
and you just say, okay then.
And I am an artist, you know.
So do you remember the moment
when Bitcoin came into the picture for you
and it maybe went from,
this is an interesting idea to,
oh my god this changed everything uh of course um i had like like two access
one like two different ways also how my pieces of art in bitcoin were created and i think this
It's really interesting because one was like when I studied Bitcoin, this was like a choice.
You hear about it and you get interested in it and then you choose, you want to know more.
And even before this, there was something that happened that was really surprisingly,
it was like a visionary experience in a dream no drugs involved but i can tell you the story
later also exactly that um for me was like uh an orange peeling and i did not understand it at first
and then discovered but that this was a bitcoin experience i understood much much later
after the studies.
And this was because I have a brother
that's using computer techniques.
He's an engineer
and presented Bitcoin to me.
And then I learned a lot about it
by videos and podcasts.
You know, Jana, you can't just say
it came to me in a dream
and we'll talk about it later.
I think we need to hear about that dream now.
Right now, okay.
I kind of started this really complex story.
And how you say it was for me, it was like life-changing from the first moment.
But I didn't know what was happening.
So I can explain to you that you understand it.
Maybe just not mixing the dream and what was happening in my life.
At this time, I was working in a record store from a local record label.
And I wrote graffiti, you know.
I had a graffiti crew and I had my tattoo shop.
So then I found out that because my artist name is Jena,
and there is a city in Germany called Jena.
and for me as a um yeah graffiti artist that's fun because my name is already written everywhere
you know and then I was like my plan was I have to go to Jena and like discover myself
it's like a story before the story and I found out there is a band from the label I work for
they're going to play in Jena.
And I asked them if they can take me on tour with them.
And I made some tattoos on stage with a punk band,
and we went to Jena.
And my idea was I'm going to discover myself.
And what then happened was like literally the night before,
we were in another city before Jena.
I had really this dream that contained really this.
For me, it was Bitcoin, the first touch of Bitcoin, but I didn't know it.
So you want to hear the dream, but it will take a moment.
We have more than one moment, Jena. Go ahead.
You have a time limit with this podcast, actually.
I forgot to ask. Yes.
So in this dream, now I just talk about the dream so you will not be confused, okay?
What is real and what's the dream?
And imagine, I was not a Bitcoiner, I was really a pre-coiner, no-coiner.
I had no idea about all the memes and everything.
So it's really unbelievable how it can happen like this.
And yeah, in this dream, it started with me having a pill.
and for me it was totally clear
like in this dream I came out of
kind of a hospital I run away because this pill was really
a dangerous pill because it was
the last of a whole series
you know the last existing one and it could
when you take it it could make like this super super flash or it kills you
And it's like, I didn't know why I have it, but I had it.
And it was not easy to have it because I knew you cannot just give it away.
Someone would take it.
And I have to destroy it, but I cannot.
And I have to find a place where to put it.
And then in this dream, a friend of mine came and wanted to have it.
You see the Bitcoin symbols, like a pill.
it's rare
what was the color of this pill
I can't say
it was orange
it was just
all these
things I knew about it that was connected
the meaning you know
and then a friend came
a friend that I really had in real
but it was in a dream and he wanted
to take the pill and I could not give it to him
because I knew it would maybe kill him
and then
we started a fight.
And he said, if you love me, you give it to me.
And I said, because I love you, I cannot give it to you.
And, you know, we broke up.
And it was like really emotional, like real.
It felt like real.
And then I think
because I was absent-minded
by this conflict, and this is also really symbolic,
because when you're absent-minded
in your mind, you cannot
often, you don't live in the moment.
So then to find a place for this pill, maybe I
thought I'm going to dig it in the ground and walked into a forest
and I lost my way because I wasn't paying attention.
This for me is the symbol of the entropy.
A symbol that I use in a painting that we can take
as an example then when the story is finished.
But, yes, and I lost my way.
And all of a sudden, I, like, ended up in a little house, like a witch house.
You know the Baba Yaga story?
It's this witch house in a forest.
And it was, like, really cozy and comfortable.
And it looked like someone just left the room.
There was maybe a fire.
and can you imagine like a hot tea on the table or something?
And I was like, oh, damn, shoot.
I end up in someone's private prophecy, you know, no invitation, no permission.
I shouldn't be here.
Someone lives here and I lost my way.
And now like, oh, damn, shoot.
And I still have this pill, you know.
And then I was, my thinking was like, I just leave by the back door
before someone sees me.
And maybe this was like a philosophy because I was a house quarter for eight years.
And we always took the back door, you know, it's like a way of living also.
And then I could not walk away because suddenly there was like an entity, a person.
For me, she was a healer.
It was a woman with, I could say, like pure energy or pure love.
but symbolically it was a woman and what really was um impressing was she has red lips and two
orange dots painted on on her cheeks like left and right from the mouth you see
and then I was like saying excuses oh sorry I shouldn be here I know sorry that I do this invasion in your house and I just leaving You didn see me I gone And the answer came telepathically
And she said, like in Swiss German, I can say in Swiss German,
and then translate.
She said,
That means there is no more back door.
There has been renovation.
You have to leave by the front.
it's what I did
it's almost finished
and when I came
there was a fence around her house
you know
and I can also describe how it was
it was like a little bit of stone
then there was a metal fence
and some plants
and when I was at the door
from this fence she suddenly appeared
behind me like
out of nothing
again like before
and here she was like
the best friend, you know, like your soulmate.
And then she told me, but she asked me, yeah, but, you know, look, you say you lost your
way, but actually, what is the real reason?
Why are you really here?
That was amazing.
And then I told her the whole story, you know, I shut out my heart and said, oh, I had this
fight with my friend because of this pill and came up with the whole story.
and she's just loved.
And then she told me something that I forgot
because I woke up,
and I woke up still in the city in Germany
the day before Jena, the city,
and I was really confused.
I don't know if you can imagine.
Now as a Bitcoiner, it's a logic story,
but for me it was like, what?
And the energy of it was so intense
that it never left me.
And it took four years
that I realized.
And all these symbols came back
as soon as I went to the conferences.
And it made me then understood
because I started to learn Bitcoin.
But how I learned it in real,
it came from a totally other side.
You know, it was my brother giving me a letter one day
in summer 19,
and I was learning everything on my balcony.
I listened to all the podcasts of Andreas Antonopoulos.
So his Bitcoin diet was my Bitcoin sunburn.
Yes, and this was amazing then to find out the meanings and all this.
Yeah, this unbelievable story made me like crazy and suddenly made sense.
sense. And then I started to paint
the first really Bitcoin-inspired
artworks as soon as I understood the connection
of all this. And here is where
for me it starts the really artworks that I
made that has really a meaning and are really
the good ones. The other access is just
I learn about it.
Then I learn, I take notes.
I think it's really important.
I make the note bigger.
I add some decoration.
And there comes an artwork out of it.
You see the two different ways of approach that I mean.
So, Yana, basically what happened was you were, a few years back, you were on your way to this town called Yana in Germany.
Yes.
And you had the dream in which you had all of the symbolism that you could not interpret.
But then once you started learning about it.
It looked like Bitcoin invited myself.
Yes.
Right.
Yes.
So all of the symbolism.
Then later, like two years later, I learned, I studied Bitcoin.
And two years later, I started to go to the meetups.
And there, all these symbols, I like recognized them.
And then all of a sudden, it was like an orange hammer on my head.
That was a Bitcoin dream.
And she told me something like 1-0-0-1-1-1-0 or something like digital dignity.
I'm the goddess of truth, which is all seed words.
And I have to find out myself.
So that's why I also forgot what she said.
Yeah, no, that's quite the story.
What do you think about it?
No, it's, there's, you know, things coming in dreams, great bursts of creativity and almost, you know, serendipity that can't quite be explained.
I mean, this has happened, right?
There's stories of mathematicians having dreams in which that allowed them to solve.
And it's not the first time for me that things like this happen.
The other interesting thing for me was a similar story in a similar vein was Douglas Adams, the guy who wrote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
He was before he had the idea for the book.
He was in Innsbruck with some friends and they got very, very drunk.
And then he got so drunk that he left the group.
He stumbled into a field.
This must have been maybe sometime in the 70s or 80s.
I can't remember.
I think 70s.
You wrote it in the early 70s.
Yeah, yeah.
So this is before the book existed.
So then in Innsbruck, he just, or so the story goes,
he collapsed onto a field and basically fell asleep drunk.
And then he had a dream, either a combination of a dream
or a drunken vision where he was looking up at the sky
and he saw all of these things and then that's where the idea for the hitchhiker's guide was born
in his mind. Oh nice but I was not drunk at the moment and there was no drugs involved
I have to say it happened just like that. So let's yeah do you think maybe that Satoshi had like a
vision for this dream because when some coincidence is like this happens how can you explain you know
to someone that it was a coincidence.
For a research later, he would say, no, that's not possible.
Because another author of a film, I don't know his name,
but the film was Laura Lenz said, the difference between the film
and the reality is if I tell the story in the film,
how it was in real, when you look at the film,
you would say, no, that's not possible.
That cannot happen.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, look, many such cases, hard to explain it in the language that sounds rational, some of these things.
But let's continue, Yana, on the topic of synchronicity.
Yes, also the Bitcoin art.
Then maybe the story contains like this.
Then I painted.
I used to try to use symbols for showing Bitcoin themes
because I thought there are not a lot of symbols to show it.
It's something totally new.
Maybe that's my habit as a tattoo artist,
so to find a symbol for someone's story or a tattoo,
and it was like Bitcoin became my tattoo client,
so I created a lot of, I tried out symbols,
and ways how you can tell these more mathematical logics
and other things about Bitcoin in a painting.
Do you have an example of one of your paintings
where you describe some of this mathematical structure of Bitcoin through art?
Yeah, there's one I like to add as an example.
And so it's sad we have an audio-only show.
You cannot see the picture.
But if the listeners want to see it at the same time,
they can go on my Instagram page.
There is it.
It's called Dressed in Entropy.
I sent you a picture before.
You may know which one.
I do, yes.
It's a beautiful painting.
Describe it.
It's a woman in front of some trees, like in a forest.
It's held in orange and red, like purple-red.
And she has a knot on her head, can you say, like a gordy knot,
and her eyes are turned up.
You can better describe it.
And the symbol I use there is, remember when I said in the dream, when you walk upset-mindedly in a forest, imagine each rencontre, if you step in front of a tree, actually, it makes you a decision go left or go right.
so
let's say
left creates zero
and right creates one
so as soon as you walk
absentmindedly you create it like
entropic
binary code
actually and
you can make the
metaphor
on the life when you go away
that is not planned ahead
or not sure
or just the adventure, as you say.
And this is why I also painted her dress
in a way that the colour is applied by hazard I used the vapor dryer and the hair dryer And it an animated work isn it
I'm looking at...
No, it's just the animation I made was just a fun app
that makes portraits sing.
And you can add a text.
But normally it's a painting, acrylic on canvas.
It's like 16 on 120 centimeters big.
And it's a physical artwork that I have shown on different conferences this year,
like in Lugano, in Glasgow, in Ireland, in last year also in Switzerland, in France,
different conferences here.
yeah no it's a beautiful work for sure but you know i want to go back to the topic of
synchronicity and coincidences i think this is we met through a coincidence via our friend
a common friend fractal encrypt uh you know this is uh it's this is one of the things i love about
bitcoin right is these synchronicities and coincidences that come up this happened
in Madeira.
Yeah, a lot of people say they have to.
I would love to hear how the story was for you
from your side to hear it.
Well, why don't we start with you, Jana?
Because that's fractal.
Okay, I can tell you how it was.
Yeah, go ahead.
I heard about the conference
from some Belgian Bitcoin friends
when we were in Lugano.
And I just wanted to meet them again.
And the ticket was for me too expensive.
and I just thought, oh, I have these paintings,
so why should we ask them to show them
so that I can get a ticket?
Actually, it was this.
And then I looked at Telegram
and I found the Prima Deren Bitcoin Group.
I don't remember his name.
He was an organizer of the gallery.
And I sent him the painting and said,
hey, I have some art.
Can I show it?
And he said, yeah, the gallery is this fractal entry,
you know our friend and he said at the artist call is tomorrow i was like okay it's tomorrow
so i wrote to tractor and i said the same look this is my paintings can i show them and he just
said would love to have you for me it was like wow easy i'm gonna go to madeira and um
when he was preparing the gallery and doing the work just he sent me like a mail he was
so excited yeah did you see avi's book he said what book what avi no i didn't see anything
and then he said oh it's so crazy um you should totally read it and there will be the presentation
of the book at the conference just next to the gallery and I was like what what's going on
and then I was thinking look if he doesn't tell me because he said I promise I'm gonna offer you
one of the books and you have to read it there is something a coincidence with your painting and the
book and I was really curious and then I thought myself yeah look we're in the age of internet I
I can't ask Avi.
And I just wrote you a message.
And then you told me why.
So it seems like in your book, you describe a painting that looks really similar,
or mine looks really similar to how you describe it.
I call it secret seed phrase.
and hidden some like 24 little silver balls in flowers.
And I painted a lady with a cube in her hand.
And I don't know if you're aware of the detail.
I was thinking about to paint a flame,
but it looked to me like a flame is not Bitcoin symbolic enough, however.
And then I made a cube.
and I called it secret seed phrase
and second name
was like, you know, made you a crepe
because there was a moon in the background
looking like an omelette
and in your book
I never read it actually
I didn't get it because
they couldn't deliver it
or what happened to them in Madeira
I actually never got it
yeah, there was shipping delays
with the book
well, not even shipping
So what's in your book you have to describe because I cannot read it yet.
Yeah, there are two paintings in that book.
There are two.
One of them, obviously I have to describe it because, you know,
they're not real paintings, right?
They're fictional paintings.
But one of them is, you know, the myrtle tree, right?
It's a type of myrtle flowers.
And I described a wreath that was made of myrtle flowers,
but it's actually inspired by a merkle tree, right?
So it's the way the flower structure and all of that is set up.
I wrote a lot of stats, but not in these paintings, yes.
So that was one thing which I think Fractal caught.
And the other was you talked about the second painting
has a flame in the palm of someone's hand.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, so I think that's what Fractal caught on to.
And obviously you and I didn't...
A seed phrase hidden in a painting?
Was that something?
Yes, there was in the book, there's a seed phrase hidden in the painting.
Yeah, because in my painting, it's the title of the painting.
And there is also, it's not really a seed phrase, but it's the number of the words that you have in a seed phrase.
Right.
By the way, the painting, I sold it last year in Gano.
This is the orange woman, right?
I'm looking at it right now.
She's wearing an orange hat.
The cube is sort of floating above.
Oh, it's like she's throwing it out.
Yeah, she's like really similar to the one that was in my visionary dream experience.
But I made one before.
That was the second one.
I made one before.
I didn't send you, probably.
with gray cubes in the background and also a lady holding a cube.
And for me, it's like the actual block of Bitcoin.
If you see this block as a beating heart in her hand,
like the doom, it becomes bigger, smaller.
And you can say in the background,
it's your gray Piat depression past story.
So, let's talk about another coincidence that you'd mentioned to me a couple of weeks back, Yena, which is something to do, and I don't know this, you just said that something happened in Vegas with a UFO decoration, Area 21. So, can you tell that story?
Yes, of course. That was even more crazy.
um i made some artworks with modiatek we do uh create art on electric secret boards
have you seen his work it's amazing he like invented a new art form with this and um
me i was in ireland with my paintings and him he was in vegas already with
his work and those two pieces
of art that we made together.
So it means I made the design
and he made the hardware.
It's artwork with a bit
axe in the middle and it
makes those special lights.
If a block is mined
or if even
yourself found one, it starts
to blink.
And I was
creating this.
Had different ideas.
I choose one because I
I thought, oh, it's in Vegas.
I do something with a UFO.
I put a UFO on it and a text written.
They came for the hash rate.
Then in the middle is the spit axe.
And, of course, in a desert with two cactus.
And the name was Area 21.
And I had really no idea.
I had no idea.
And so if the listeners were in Vegas and saw the decoration, it was the same, literally the same name.
And when you looked from one side and took a picture and held it next to the artwork, it was the same.
I don't know how it could happen.
I even asked some other Bitcoin friends what text we could use, what ideas they liked the most.
And that's what came out.
so it was not planned me going to wiggas but when i saw this i took the next flight from ireland
to wiggas to see it in real that was amazing
yeah that is a that is quite the coincidence couple couple of big ones right there so you know
it was strange for me it was like really meaningful or it really was
touched me and emotionally touched me that it happened.
But when I told the story to some people at the conference,
they didn't look like so really touched by it like myself, you know.
Just, yeah, it's an artwork. It looks the same.
Okay, maybe she knew it before and just tells the story, you know.
There was not the same feedback.
The artwork at the conference itself became a whole other content
because it's another energy
than...
So you could not remark that it happened.
There was just...
Sargwaj was looking this
yeah so let's talk about another work of art of yours yana and this one we we had shadrach
on the show a couple of weeks back and he was talking about trying to get your art you're a
swiss artist get your art to lugano in switzerland and running into absurd issues uh with transporting
So why don't we start with hearing your perspective on, we heard Shadrach's, but from your perspective, how did that story play out?
Play out means how it happened.
What happened?
Yeah, what happened is the challenge is always the transport of my arteries because they are quite big.
and for
let's say for
international flights
for local flights
airplanes are too small
or FedEx cars
are too small
or it's too expensive
so what I tried
or what we tried
is all by Bitcoin
by the Bitcoin networks
mostly Telegram groups
I organized the transport
from the paintings
from one to the other conference.
It means they came back from Glasgow to Lugano.
This is because if I had them in Switzerland,
we have no problem, you know.
It's because they came back, and they came back over France,
and there was a driver who took them from Paris to Lugano.
And, yeah, the border controls.
Actually, they can be glad.
They make the best money out of my art at the moment.
They earn the best because they make money.
They make just pay because the point was they needed a stamp from the export
because I say they came just back home.
And they asked, so when did you import them to France?
And I could not say, no, we imported them to Glasgow.
So I had no proof.
That's what went wrong.
But anyway, the regulations, I don't understand how really to do it.
Because before you send them, you can make a hundred of calls.
No one really tells you what you have to do.
But as soon as you are in this situation, they know exactly.
And then they tell you.
And it's like too late.
Yeah, thank you.
It's not that I didn't ask before, but thank you.
Now we know.
Finally.
Yeah, they almost stuck in the border controls just to pay.
And they came too late.
It was really stressful.
If I hadn't this really emotional engagement with this story,
behind it, it would not be worth it.
And Yenna, which painting
was this?
Not just
one. It was like a package
of paintings.
Like
ten paintings?
Biggers and smallest?
Like almost all that I have.
So
let's
replay the story because
you're an artist.
You're from there.
your paintings went to Glasgow to be displayed,
just to be displayed, not to be told nothing.
Yes, to be displayed, yes.
And then they were being brought back to...
Then they were being brought back by Bitcoiners, yes.
Someone brought them from Paris to Lugano.
He came to the French border
and they called me
and asked if I'm going to display them commercially.
And I said, no, they come back.
So I was, okay, I hope they don't listen now.
I was lying.
And then I had to send them a paper that I just can prove.
They needed a paper to make a stamp on it.
And this was okay then.
Then he came to the Swiss border.
And because his phone did not work, he had the idea where I asked myself,
because that was not the best idea to ask at the border controls for an eSIM card for Switzerland.
And I told him there is a silent link, you know, you know, silent link.
ESIM card for Bitcoin.
and of course they didn't have any
in the border control and as he came back
he told me there was
an officer, I don't know how he said it, one year
from the border control, a guy who just came back from lunch
and he saw the cartons, the package in the car
and he said, what do you transport? And there he had to show
everything and they wanted to validate the paintings that I was dressed.
So I deleted all the posts that I made on social medias that I showed them
officially because I was paranoid.
They're going to find prizes.
Oh, it's remarkable.
They wanted 20% of the whole value.
Yeah.
And this is just odd.
But only because I had no stamp for the import, you know.
Yeah.
Now I know it.
If I export them, I need to tell them,
and then I have to declare a temporary export and give the prices.
And if I come back with everything, it's okay.
Even price doesn't matter.
And if I sell something, I have to pay taxes on the sale.
That's actually the point.
Well, this is the absurdity of fiat world, right?
It's totally absurd.
And they added another bill and another bill.
In the end, it was like much more than Shadrach mentioned in the other podcast.
Just when he said it, the next day came another bill.
We talk about numbers.
Oh, we don't have to.
But it's a lot.
It's a lot.
it's a lot
it can't pay
the art itself
does not pay it
so we
really
need to
find a way
how
how to do
this
and also
where is the
place for the
for the art
at conferences
because I also
realized
there are a lot
of big sponsors
paying for the
visibility
and art is
another
category
you cannot
make us
pay the same
amount because it will never pay out by art itself and um yeah also
stand for this discussion you talk a lot about the culture but where does the culture gets the place
for it you know and we have to to really um
I don't know the expression in English.
Yeah, like the pioneers are charged, you know.
Right.
So I think without this really special meaning,
I would even stop to do it and just paint because I have a nice day.
I don't have to share it when it's such a struggle.
So I look for ways to make it easier to find solutions for the artists
and for the conferences, of course.
or maybe even take them away from conferences.
We'll see.
So, Yenna, let's talk about another piece of yours.
I don't know if there's a recent one.
I suspect it's your latest piece, which is I'll Take Yours True.
There it is.
Right? The Mermaid.
The Mermaid. Yes.
Yeah, talk about that.
it's so sad the listeners can't see it the mermaid it's a funny painting that reminds you how safe
is your kiss or actually it's about fears of losing and all this a little bit
things that can make you nightmares in bitcoin are in this painting but also as a joke
a lot say lost my keys in a boating accident and i just think that okay what
why do we have so much boating accidents so what happened what did they cause
and then i think it could be these mermaids that stack sets from the boating accidents
it's maybe more a mythologic idea
at least the mermaid stands for a mythologic figure
like in all stories
that gets something in promise when it's born
like there is a story where there's a fisherman
who is a pure fisherman
and he goes fishing
and then he is fishing a mermaid
and she gives him a piece of gold in exchange of his youngest child that was just born.
And he took the gold but did not want to give the child because he was afraid, of course.
And these themes that I took into this Bitcoin meme because he then runs away with the child and the mermaid says but you can do what you want Any day it will be mine anyway because it was promised
So I was thinking because we are not limited.
Our lifetime is not limited.
So anyway, our keys will live longer than us.
So she will get them anyway one day.
that's quite the thought
Iana that all
Bitcoin, all 21 million of them
will one day belong to a mermaid
maybe a mermaid
will just be lost
or in the fears
of
it must not be a mermaid, take it as a symbol
well that's
where all the lost Bitcoin go, right?
it goes
of course, it's stacking mermaids
that like
sit in the cold waters like,
and I'll take yours too.
Then they sing and the ship arrives
and they make a storm.
Yeah, of course.
So beware.
Would you hang it in your living room
or maybe for a company
that sends seat phrase protection?
Well, you know,
the way you've described it, Yana,
It's a terrifying painting now that I think about it this way.
If I were to hang it in my living room, I'd look at it and I'd be terrified,
saying, oh my God, all my Bitcoin.
Well, thankfully, I don't have any.
I think the mermaid has it already because I lost mine in a boating accident too.
But just the thought, the average person who has Bitcoin and he stares at that mermaid
with this slow, dawning, terrifying realization that his or her Bitcoin doesn't belong to them.
it eventually will go to the mermaid.
Eventually, yes.
Anyway.
Have you never had a dream that you lost all your Bitcoin
or thought about it?
Well, I already did.
That's what I'm going to tell you.
I don't have this.
I don't want to make people say this.
You need more humor to look at it.
It's more like a joke, but it's also serious, of course.
Yeah. No, that's great. So let's talk about conferences and just the art circuit, the Bitcoin art circuit. You've been, what is it, exhibiting your art for a couple of years now, right at different conferences. What has that journey been like, you know, both as an artist and as a Bitcoiner watching the culture evolve in your time exhibiting your art?
yes so i started when a little bit more than two years
and first i was in local conferences because
i found a little um local groups around me the meetups they do and just wanted to add something
also what I can do
because I
support the
Bitcoin idea of course
and often
I was like the first one to ask
to
add some artworks
now it
developed because it has
a lot more artists
and it's
It's hard to overview.
It happens so fast, changing.
Some things work, others not.
It's pretty wide to describe.
And I see some galleries.
Let me also help to organize.
When it's smaller, I can do something myself and add something.
This is cool.
and bigger becomes there is more structure in it.
And for my experience to make the art, it goes more and more ways.
So it can be also, I need time to recover as artist from the conferences,
but as a person, I love it because it brings the connections
and all the new projects I work on with other Bitcoiners and with my story.
I also create a reaction in the person who listens.
And for me, it's like an orange peeling test.
And then I can see with whom I want to work and not how they react on it with someone thinking.
It's really different.
It can be super cool.
It can be horrible when someone steals me an artwork.
but I also come in contact with the projects I want to work for.
It has both.
Was there any conference in the last two years
where you had a moment,
you were looking at the Bitcoin art on display saying,
wow, this is finally real, right?
This is no longer a concept.
Bitcoin art is a real thing.
I'm not sure if I understand the question
can you say it in other words?
Sure
you know
maybe two, three years ago
if someone said Bitcoin art
it almost sounded like a fictitious idea
right
but in those last two, three years
we've seen so many
art galleries attached to conferences
and people displaying their artworks.
Actually, maybe in the last three, four years, I would say, right?
So in your travels, as you've been going to these galleries
and these conferences,
did you feel that this concept of Bitcoin art
has moved from almost this fictitious concept to real, right?
There are actually many artists who are displaying physical artworks
at these conferences and this is an actual movement?
Okay, very interesting question.
I have to think more about it to really answer on it.
To be honest, I don't know what to say right now.
Yeah, we can come back to this.
You know, why don't we talk?
I think you'd mentioned to me, Yana,
about the art panel at Paradigm Bitcoin
and something about laser eyes being illegal.
So what is that story?
Laser eyes can be illegal in Fiat Clown World, yes.
Because this Bitcoin story that I have,
this orange peeling story to me looks so exciting.
I wanted to get to tell it to the people on a conference.
I started to work with them, the Paradigma Bitcoin conference in French Switzerland.
And they rented a really, really beautiful theater in a Jugendstil.
How do you say Jugendstil in English?
Art Deco.
so my idea was I'm gonna tell this story on stage with a little show effects and my idea was that it
was like a the painting would talk would tell the story itself and there should be a moment where
in the story I come into this house and there should be then laser pointers pointing on the
painting that she gets laser eyes the woman on the painting you know what i mean and then the
technique guys should like on the right moment and we had a sign um put these lasers on the painting
but because it was really a big distance and the construction was a little bit improvised
it turned out that these lasers were not on the ice
but it was maybe like it looked like laser nipples or something
like reacted not the way I expected and I looked back and I see it went totally wrong
and I think they even did not understand what I wanted to tell them
so in this point went totally wrong
but I was happy to
they gave me the chance
to make a panel
and
I think most of people said
yeah but we did not get what you wanted to tell us
and then after the conference
there was a
concert
and as a hazard
I saw a friend of mine
who said
tattoo client from me and i told him the whole story that it went like wrong with his lasers and
what i forgot is that this guy was by hazard the technique guy of the biggest theater in geneva
that's his job wow and his answer on my on my story that oh i had some lasers in a theater
and they didn't work out.
He like took a card out of his pocket,
like in a size of a credit card,
and held it in front of my head.
And I was like, what's that card?
And then he said,
do you know that laser pointers are illegal
because you need a permission?
Once in a lifetime,
you pay like a thousand Swiss francs or something,
and then you have a permission officially to install lasers.
And if you use them with public, you need even a permission to install them.
And you have to tell them how you install it and in what direction and how long you use them and for what And then he said and I the controller
You can imagine this guy.
He's really punky.
And then he told me, you know, I don't care about it,
but I have this card because then I can go to concerts and don't pay
and can stand in front of it because I have to control the lasers.
so he told me
why didn't I tell it to the wrong person
looks like some years ago
some young German
just random dudes were playing
around with laser pointers
and there were some
literally some airplanes
getting disturbed by it
and since then you have this regulation
that you need permission
and you pay for it for laser
laser eyes
in fact
well you heard it here
first folks
there are parts of the world where laser eyes
are in the middle
yes
it's true
yeah
but the controller is not serious about it
they just want to go to free concerts
right
so
Jena what
What role do you think Bitcoin art plays in onboarding people,
you know, growing this movement, right, driving adoption?
And I don't just mean technically,
but at an emotional or potentially even spiritual level.
I think this really for each one has so much his personal story.
Some people like more to read,
It's other like more to look at the painting, but it depends.
If we show them only on conferences where they already are orange peeled to people,
makes no difference, no.
But for me, to share Bitcoin content in a painting is like a lovely way for me
when I try to talk to people about Bitcoin.
I feel like rejected.
And then I think maybe I'm not good in explaining.
But it's not only explaining,
maybe it's more to give support
for those who already know about it.
But the spiritual aspect is really important
because the question is also how you connect
this really pragmatic, pragmatical, mathematical Bitcoin theme,
the protocol, the numbers,
with creativity and a philosophical meaning
and spiritual way of living.
Here is my English, not so good.
I could better tell you in French or German.
I love to question. I can't tell what I am all thinking because of the language barrier right now.
Yeah, no, no, all good, Anna. I think that makes sense.
And unfortunately, if you did explain it in French or German, I and a lot of our listeners might not be able to understand.
I wish it could give a great support
but I ask myself
actually where is the place to share it
or it's also devastating
if so much people go to the conferences
so less buy the artworks
maybe I just don't want to answer
because I have a little bit
negative perspective on it
we need sponsors
we cannot leave from it
It's not a business that you can make out of it.
It does not fix on the models.
Even to have it presented on social media.
It's something else like the art.
You have to do another job on top of it.
And I just stopped that.
I took the pressure out of my talents to monetize it.
And maybe I'm just more interested for each one personally
how he can live this in his life.
and if we can show an example
but actually
a lot about thinking about
what's the meaning also
if before in fiat world
artworks got by it
as a story of value
and in Bitcoin not
I did not really understand
yet what on
more generations it will mean
to buy a Bitcoin artwork early
because you know the price
will not be
worth it as jack maler said on stage in madeira his biggest mistake was to buy an artwork four
years ago for one bitcoin so why is it right it's it's a difficult question we cannot know
on the top i don't know really what i do actually also this uh how do you think about it
yeah i think this is a tough one right um i certainly am not a fan of thinking about art
as a store of value.
I think, you know, I talked about it
in my opening monologue in the sermon.
Art to me is a self-contained entity, right?
It's the pursuit of beauty in and of itself.
And the reason people have been using art
as a store of value
or even thinking about it along those lines
is because our money is broken.
So when money is broken,
you find the closest thing
you can find to make it money, like
a piece of land or
potentially a work. And artists do art
because their heart is broken.
Something like that. Right.
But let me ask you this,
Yana, about...
Yeah, but imagine when also, when it means
that also the AI and B fan
and then makes that we have all more
free time and to find out what we want,
a lot of more people will do
art and it will change
also the
way of art in the
society
what it
place it is.
I'm just curious to discover
I can have any idea to
do in advance.
I'm looking forward to that
world too, Yenna, where AI
does all the boring
things so that we can focus on
poetry and art. Right now
what I'm seeing is AI is making poetry
and art, terrible stuff, but it's still doing
it and humans are doing the
boring work so i'm waiting for that yeah the flippening yeah what i would love to to see also
is that you know for me it was really struggle because you know i told you i had my tattoo shop
and i live from my art since years and but finally for me was also the changing point of bitcoin was
that I understood that I can take out the pressure really
to give the sense in it, the value only comes from it
when I can sell it and live from it
because this pressure is making that also my brain is blocked,
but I cannot really do what would be the best that I can imagine
that I can do and no one else that I can give to the world.
But as soon as you have more time for yourself, you come to think about it, each one.
And that's also what we love about Bitcoin now.
But still, these two worlds for me totally collide.
In fiat world, I smash it against the wall.
And in Bitcoin Arch, you call me a pioneer.
Some days I cannot yet bring it together, all this.
let's talk about your plans for 2026
I have a feeling you have big plans
is that correct?
still this year
I have more plans
I heard you go to Manchester
I will be there in a week, yes
yes, when you're in Manchester
I'm in Ansi in France
at the only conference
with some other artists also.
But I met the organizer, what's his name again,
from Manchester in Glasgow, and I could be there,
but it's the same date.
So I'm really sad I cannot come if you see him say hello.
Which one?
There are a few, yeah, nice date of one day.
What was his name?
I should have looked up before.
I don't know if I remember his name.
All right.
Well, I'll tell them when I see them.
Yes.
And so I'll be in France.
This is the third time now at the B-Only conference.
A really nice team.
A really great conference for all the French speakers.
And then will be the Bitcoin Baden in December.
Next year, there are so many plans.
I have to make my schedule.
but a lot of conferences repeat.
That may become some new, but I have not planned yet.
I have planned till December and then let's see.
What about projects and artworks for 2026?
Right now, looking more for the structure,
how to present them because we need really solutions for how to transport them how to finance it how to show them That is more now in my mind that really be inspired for painting
I have one that I'm working on it right now that is in my mind since longer time.
And then I will see when it's finished.
But the organization around how to transport the art between conferences,
if you have an exposition every month or every two months,
they are always on the road.
Maybe I'll be more
occupied by organizing this, I'm afraid.
Well, you talk about transportation
and we talked about Shadrach and A2B.
What is your involvement in A2B?
A2B, yes.
This was an idea that I had on the road to a conference.
It was Lugano last year, no, two years ago.
Because I always asked in telegram groups of the Bitcoiners that anyway go to the conferences
if they can help me find the transport.
And there were some, I mentioned before, Belgian Bitcoin friends picking me up in Switzerland
And you go to Lugano.
And on the way, in the Gotthard tunnel precisely, I just had the idea,
hey, there should be a webpage where I can have a map.
And I say, I'm here.
I have this box to transport.
And I want to go there.
And someone else can look.
And then those guys said, yeah, and this should be a Noster.
and another said, yeah, and I could program it.
And I understood the power of the community in this moment.
But now it's other people that we are realizing the idea.
Just because I have my position is that I really have the real problem
that I need the solution for.
I have a use case.
I transport art.
In your case, you just need to get it from point A to point B
without paying these absurd fees.
That's why I hate to be here from HVM.
Yes.
And you don't,
why should you be paying money
to transport beauty across the world
just for display?
It's not even like you're selling it,
which even if you were selling it,
why is it anyone's business?
What you're selling it for is you created it,
you're selling it,
why should they take money?
It's not even that.
You're not even selling it.
I don't know,
because people are not motivated
if you don't pay them.
Or it's, I don't know,
It's more the charges around it that we pay.
It's not even the thing itself.
It's more for the rental cars, the whatever, the taxes, the border control payments, the art itself to expose.
You just hang it on a wall, it's done, you know.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
So she's paid more things around it.
So because if not someone else drives there, then he has also the cost.
Because it's like in the logic of the heads of the people that we ask.
And who has time, you know, they all have their fiat shops and I have to make compromises.
So the art has to arrive a day before the visitors of a conference.
And so it's not so easy to find someone that wants to pay an extra hotel or, you know.
Yeah.
One night more.
Yeah.
Well, that's interesting, you know, that A to B, you know, potentially came from an idea you had to solve a very real problem.
Yes, yes.
Because it was always, I was in these chat groups and asking all the big ones, can you help me for this?
And, you know, I can pay.
And, you know, it was not easy for me also always ask and say that it's hard for me.
And because I was thinking, like, who's interested in that?
You know, who should even do it for free?
I don't know.
That's one of the really things we turn around to find out.
Yeah.
why should it even
be paid for just showing the art
I don't know
well that's
that's the
consequences
that come with it
the driver needs a place
to stay
he needs to
to make the
he needs petrol
you know that's the things
so yeah
not someone to organize it.
Yeah, that's what we build on systems to find the solutions.
Love it.
So, Yana, if everything goes perfectly for you in the next few years,
how would you like people to look back on all of your works?
Let's say 2030.
What do you want Lady Block Jane to stand for?
the artworks.
Right.
Let's say everything you want to do,
you are able to achieve
from now till 2030.
Good question.
So in 2030,
if people are looking back
at all of your artworks,
at Lady Blockjane's artworks,
what would you like them to
think that your work represents,
what it stands for?
I should say Bitcoin.
Satoshi, is it you?
I should think about that
because I come out of something
I discover myself
and it was not a concept
that I planned that I made
and I can say I want it stands for this
it's art
at the moment it's inspired by Bitcoin
and of course
I would love that it would be
remarked or I think
maybe if more
people get involved in Bitcoin and really
implement it in their life
and go on Bitcoin standard
or all in, maybe
my paintings will be more understood
than even now. We have
time. We've got time.
So for
listeners who are artists
or aspiring artists
in the Bitcoin space,
what's one piece of advice
you would give them that you wish someone had given you
when you were starting out
an artist
yes, aspiring artist
in the Bitcoin space
what is the one piece of advice you would give them
which would have helped you
if someone had given it to you when you were beginning
yeah to actually maybe i gave the advice to myself sure what would you what is the advice
like really meets meets the community meets the people do not just wait in your
shop and add a Bitcoin accepted shield on the door,
nothing will happen.
You have to see and go to places and meet the people
and then share the story.
There's always someone better or not better than you,
but the importance is to bring it out and share it.
But I know it, someone told me.
someone told me
that's great
and so is there anything else
Yana that we didn't talk about
any particular work
or events that you want to
highlight
it's okay
we talked about
what was in my mind
to tell you
and that's fine thank you no that's great so where can where can uh people find your work
how can they support you maybe buy your work and bring it into their homes
yes so i'm in a change here i had a project that we started btc for art where i sell my paintings
but I'm not sure if this project is still running.
So first, I need the help to make a new webpage maybe
or a way to present my art
if someone that wants to help me can help me.
If not, they can contact me on the social medias,
Lady Blockchain, I'm on X, I'm on Noster,
I want Instagram
and
yeah I should
thinking about what's the best way
maybe the webpage or do we
do something with the art guild
with A2B
we'll see
I have a meet up next week
with someone who maybe can help me
or if some listeners here
have some solutions
please
let me know
Well, I do see a website, BTC for Art.
BTC for Art, there are a lot of my paintings.
Some are missing.
I have to add the new ones.
And this is a little bit sad because...
since Lugano, I was
stressed out. The border control was
after my paintings
I deleted a lot.
So those
are really hard to find now.
They are rare.
Yeah, I will
make an effort here.
So the next year I can
tell you exactly, they can
look there and
they can contact me
on Lady Blockchain.
Excellent. Well, I'll have your social links up in the show notes.
I'll have BTC for Art linked in the show notes and also A to B.
You can add the Nostro and the A to B link.
I mean, the X link in the show notes, yeah, of course.
Yeah, will do. Will do. So, Jenna, I appreciate it.
If someone's at the conferences and see these little tattoo stickers,
temporary tattoo stickers This is also my business card Just turn it around and there my link to it Great
Jenna, appreciate
you taking the time and sharing
all these stories and coincidences
in your journey with
us. Thank you
to our listeners.
I hope you were listening on
Fountain. If not,
please do for the next episode.
And while you're there, hit the subscribe button.
Your support genuinely helps us.
For next week, I will be away at BitFest.
So I will not be on the episode.
QW comes back from his break, from his brief hiatus.
In fact, actually, I think it's a hiatus from his hiatus
before he goes off for a couple of weeks after.
But he will be back next week for the next episode of LabChain Radio.
but until next time
thank you all
thank you