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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses

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on the intersection of NOSTER and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current

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thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,

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doers, and plebs.

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All right, we are live.

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SAS Blue are here to join us with a major announcement that is going to shake the world

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of podcasting to its core in a good way. And a reminder, folks, while we're on the topic,

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if you are listening to this show on Apple or Spotify, first of all, thank you for listening.

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But I would urge you to hit pause and switch over to the Fountain Podcasting app,

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where you can earn some stats and support the value for value revolution as you listen.

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This show is streamed live on zap.stream

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and any other Noster client that supports streaming

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such as Amethyst and Noster.

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And QW, I'm going to keep saying this,

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there is no second best Bitcoin conference.

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We are in conference season,

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but there is no second best because BTC Prague is the best

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and it is taking place from June the 19th to the 21st.

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So that's less than a month away.

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And you can save some sats if you use discount code NOSTR, N-O-S-T-R, 15% if you're paying in sats and 10% off if you're paying in dirty old fiat.

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And QW...

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Avi, I need to ask about that event.

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Is it going to be similar to getting into the Nakamoto stage next week?

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Which event, QW?

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The promo, your event, the BTC Prague.

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I was laughing because the Nakamoto stage, if you want to go see J.D. Vance, he talks at 9 a.m.

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And you're supposed to get there two hours before because you're going through basically a TSA checkpoint to see him talk.

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I'm just picturing all these Bitcoiners falling in line.

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And it's so contradictory, but it is what it is when you have the vice president, right?

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No, it certainly is.

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Well, we'll see, QW.

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Maybe the lines will be that long.

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But I have to say...

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Maybe the orange man will go to BGC.

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Dear God, I hope not.

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But this is a proud week for me, QW, because at the Bitcoin Film Festival that is underway in Warsaw, over the weekend, my show, the pilot of my show, Finding Home, my humble attempt at paying homage to Anthony Baudain with the food and travel show about Bitcoin or with Bitcoin in the background is going to be premiering over there.

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I think it's over the weekend.

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So a lot of work went into it.

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Parker Worthington was the director.

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And it's really gratifying that people are going to be seeing it for the first time.

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Now, it's not going to be released to the public just yet, but it is getting its premiere there.

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So, yeah, proud moment for me.

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Well, and let me stop you there because we had the show.

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and Tomek, I think, brought it up that, you know,

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you're short or your pilot was going to be running.

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But he didn't say that.

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He said just, Avi, you have something you submitted.

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And I was like, I listened to the show again.

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I'm like, is Avi submitting videos that I don't even know about?

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And when you said Finding Home and you talked about the Bourdain

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kind of influence there. I remember our conversation in the past, but I didn't hear

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anything about it until really that show. So as a co-host, you know, I feel like you're cheating

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on me sometimes. And I just want to let you know that it's okay. We have a fluid relationship.

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This is a video show. It's a 30-odd minute pilot. I mean, one of the reasons I've kept it

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under apps is, largely under apps,

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is, you know, we wanted

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to make sure we built,

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we made the, you know, really

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a work of art, right? That was the goal.

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It wasn't to make a Bitcoin video, it was to make

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a work of art and

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see if we can get a season

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funded,

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and we'll see. We'll see what happens

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when it premieres in

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Warsaw.

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With that said...

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Good luck, buddy. Good luck.

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Thank you, my friend. Oops.

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I lost the meme, QW.

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But the meme, I had it right in front of me, but now it's gone.

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But I'll do it from memory.

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The meme readout today is renaming slices to whole pizza.

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Yesterday, as we know, QW was Bitcoin Pizza Day.

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And in honor of Bitcoin Pizza Day, our dear friend Condelorian has proposed a PIP, a pizza improvement protocol.

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it's numbered 177

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and the idea is

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we will call

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the smallest unit of a pizza

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a slice, we'll call it

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a whole pizza because

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why not, that way people

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when they eat a slice, they're no longer

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eating a slice, they will eat

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a whole pizza, I think this whole slice thing

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was introducing

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unit bias, QW

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so it's good, we're removing it

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and we're making pizza

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great again

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uh that said qw you've been paying attention to bitcoin and nostril culture in the last uh week or

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so what are you seeing uh first of all speaking of pizza i think that both sailor and strategy

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probably had the worst marketing uh of any pizza day out there um it was really emphasizing you

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using the dollar to buy pizza. And I am just so confused. It's like they didn't read the room

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that the whole reason pizza day is a thing is because someone purchased Bitcoin or a pizza

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with Bitcoin, using it as a form of money, the electronic cash system. So I don't know what's

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going on there. But that was, any thoughts on that, Avi? I think we've talked about this a few times

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on the show. The narrative shift, especially since the Trump election, if I have to be honest,

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which is, you know, when was that? Early November of 2024, has been very interesting. You see

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Bitcoin treasury companies becoming all the rage. Bitcoin is now a pet rock. It is digital gold. It

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is cyber Manhattan. It is now mainstream. We did a whole sermon on this. We are now the counterculture.

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I mean, we've been on this the whole time because I think we certainly emphasize money first.

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You don't make war unaffordable with digital real estate, in my opinion. You got to use it in

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loo of the dollar. But yeah, so that was one of the culture items, obviously pizza.

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One big thing that's happening today, and I'm sure we'll talk about this during the show.

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When I say today, it looks like it's in about less than two hours is when it streams to me,

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but well to all of us but yeah that would be the first UK value for value gig streaming on Fountain

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so anybody with their Fountain app value for value you're going to have Longy you're going to have

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Nathan Abbott and Joe Martin obviously we love Joe friend of the show he's been on before good man

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so that's that's going to be going on that's today that that kind of I just found out about

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that a few days ago. So there wasn't a lot in front of it. Maybe it was, can we do this? And

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then we decided we could do it. So we just announced it a couple of days before. Vegas,

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obviously, we got the Vegas Nostrid side quests. I will be at the Bitcoin Golf Championship 26th.

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I'll be on stage. We're going to be doing a live show with Heather Larson with Radio Detox.

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You'll see Jim Costello with Phantom Power and then Abel James.

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Then you're going to have the music playing.

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So, you know, people like Sarah Evans, Sarah Jade, sorry, not Sarah Evans, Sarah Jade with her guitar.

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But that's from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m.

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If you're golfing, it starts at 8 a.m.

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But we will be streaming.

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This is the important part because, you know, if you're not going to make it, if you don't want to pay $20,000 for a beer in Vegas, streaming live, Toonster, and I believe Fountain 2 will confirm today.

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NAS Vegas, that would be the Wednesday, the 28th, We All Scream.

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That's from 7 p.m. to 1 p.m.

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Also, that Saturize the System, which is about 300 steps away.

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That starts at 7 p.m. to 11 p.m.

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So if you want to hit both of those, by all means, satirize the system.

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The Bugle, our friends of the show, Bugle News, you can do that and then walk over to

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Las Vegas.

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So you can do literally both in one night.

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Nostrebama, we'll talk about that as we get closer.

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But Avi, I mentioned Jim Costello.

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I'll be on stage and Ainsley is actually going to be playing at that event as well.

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but she happened to be our top zapper this week Avi. Yeah how about that QW?

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It's a little bit poetic because we do have a pretty dense value for value show here so Ainsley

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Costello our top zapper this week in musical powerhouse who makes us middle-aged podcast hosts

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feel like we're trying to figure out how to burn cds you remember that Avi burning cds that was fun

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while we were busy complaining about kids these days,

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you went ahead and proved that talent doesn't need a few decades to marinate.

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And then you zapped us into the stratosphere.

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You're out here creating music with the confidence of someone

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who's never rewound a cassette tape.

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And you're supporting the show like a true value for value champion.

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Thank you for showing us the future of music Thank you for showing showing us that future of music is in very capable hands now if you can just teach us how tiktok tiktok works that be great so thank

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you ainsley um we appreciate you uh you you were on our early shows um when we were really starting

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the value for value live streaming uh so you are etched in our history and we appreciate you and we

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We very much look forward to working with you in the future.

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Indeed.

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Thank you for your support and generosity.

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And QW...

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Just a young gun, right?

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She's a young gun.

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Certainly.

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Most decidedly.

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I normally don't feel old until, you know,

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these high-energy younger people come around me.

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Maybe I am getting old.

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I don't know.

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And before we jump into our guest segment today, QW, we have a sermon.

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And I come not to praise Valley for Value, but sadly to bury its remains.

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My dear gentle plebs of the lightning-laced airwaves,

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imagine Valley for Value as a pristine snowflake floating down the time chain.

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Perfect, symmetrical, and doomed.

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the instant anyone touches it.

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The second a human hand reaches out,

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here come the inspectors who say,

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ah-ah, that flake melted on a custodial palm.

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Impure.

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Or, wait, you thanked someone for catching that?

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Commercial contamination.

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Or, you're storing it in a freezer for an extra day?

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Technocratic elitism

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The purity test zooms infinitely inward

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A mandelbrot of moral math

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Where every zoom level discovers a new micro-sin

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Bitrate snobbery

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Microphone privilege

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And the forbidden phrase

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Support the show

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Keep zooming

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And eventually the only flawless practitioner

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Is a battery-powered hermit

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broadcasting thoughts via Morse code blinked at the moon,

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and even he probably shilled a VPN once.

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We announced Plep Chain Radio Premium last week,

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and predictably, the snowflake of value-for-value evaporated

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in a firestorm of shrill gatekeeper cries.

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Funny thing, though, the same critics streamed our free feed

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over ISP infrastructure

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paid for by someone's

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fiat paycheck on a phone

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assembled in a factory

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that definitely didn't run

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on gratitude alone.

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Purity is a hall

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of mirrors. Every

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pain reflects a cost

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we prefer to ignore.

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So I've concluded.

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Somewhere between the invoices

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for hosting and the existential

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dread of production schedules

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that value for value

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is like absolute zero, a useful limit we can approach but never reach. If the concept were

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truly pure, it would float beyond audit, immune to every ledger. Instead, it keeps falling apart

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in our warm, messy hands. And somehow, that imperfection keeps the microphones humming,

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the sats flowing,

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and the jokes and memes writing themselves,

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which, if you squint at it sideways,

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might be the most valuable value after all.

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And with that, QW,

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I think it's time to welcome our guests,

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Oscar and Davidas.

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Welcome back to Plep Chain Radio.

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Hello.

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Hey, Avi. How's it going?

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Hey, QW.

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I feel like I just got read a children's book, a value for value children's book, Avi.

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I appreciate that.

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A dark and nihilistic children's book, but yes.

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There are some narrations and some different, it felt like different characters in there.

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Your voices, very well done.

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We are but performance artists, QW.

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So Oscar, I'll direct this to you, our burning question before we start our show.

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We'll see if Dorbitas wants to take a stab at it as well after you do.

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So here's the question.

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You finally, Oscar, acknowledge the memo that you've received

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from our influencer overlords that you've been ignoring all this while.

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The memo that says Bitcoin is a pet rock, that it is Cyber Manhattan,

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and as we all know, no one uses a fraction of Cyber Manhattan as money.

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in the throes of this new this newfound existential dread oscar you're faced with a choice

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what do you tell your loyal fountain users who have been clearly and i dare say gratuitously

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flouting and disobey disobeying this imperative for years by supporting value for value

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um good question um i'm not exactly sure how to answer that yeah um i don't know

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but bitcoin is digital gold is all the rage these days that is the that is the

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new mainstream narrative and here are people these rebels listening to their 40 hours of

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podcast week on fountain and boosting and zapping merrily right right yeah i think i think what the

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internet needs is micro payments and what it also needs is interoperability between different apps

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and that's what the lightning network does for um podcasting 2.0 apps like fountain

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NOSTA clients and I'm sure many many more media services on the internet so I think it's a totally

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different use case for Bitcoin and the Lightning Network and for people that haven't experienced

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that maybe the digital gold narrative is fine for them but I would just encourage people to

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to test this stuff out and also if they disagree with um spending their bitcoin to suggest an

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alternative interoperable um micropayment system that we could use for some of the features

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in fountain and these other these other apps well well played there roscoe what is the alternative

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Have you found an answer?

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I haven't, no, I haven't.

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I'm not really looking for one, to be honest,

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because I think other than the onboarding challenges,

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which I feel like I'm always harking on about,

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and I'm sure we'll talk more about today,

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but other than the onboarding challenges,

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Lightning works incredibly well

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as a micropayment layer for the internet.

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So I don't think we need an alternative.

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I think it exists.

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We just need to make it easier for people to experience it for the first time.

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Yep. Indeed.

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So, Oscar and Davidas, you have a major announcement to make.

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Huge announcement, Abi. Huge.

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We do, yeah.

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I think like since we have a bit of time on over the next hour, maybe I'll start by just kind of reflecting on, you know, Fountain's journey over the past couple of years and everything that we've been trying to do in terms of pushing podcasting forward through podcasting 2.0, using the Bitcoin Lightning Network for micropayments and to help creators get paid.

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but also to signal what content is valuable and is worth listening to.

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I think over the years, we've seen amazing success within the Fountain app

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in terms of podcasters getting paid directly from their audience,

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bypassing the advertising model.

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And on top of the earnings that podcasters have made through the app,

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I think the discovery mechanic of boosts being surfaced in the feed and on the episode page is really interesting.

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And it's something new that doesn't really exist currently in terms of money being a signal for discovery of content.

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I think the biggest challenge that we've seen is onboarding, especially onboarding podcasters and their audience that don't have a familiarity with Bitcoin and the Lightning Network.

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it's still today incredibly intimidating to download an app and be presented with

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a new payment system that you've never heard of before presented with these things

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called satoshis that you can send around but in order to get started you need to go and buy these

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things somewhere else and then transfer them into this new app via an invoice and you have to go

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through that entire you know mental journey in order to to have your first moment of success

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and you know ourselves and Dovidas we're both based here in the UK in London and especially

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over the past I'd say year and a half we've worked so closely together on a number of different I

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guess projects the majority of which have been the live music shows that we've done

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in mostly in the US as well so it's often been me and Dovidas you know at 3am making sure that

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the tech is running smoothly and that everything is working together and these artists are actually

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able to get paid from anywhere in the world which is really cool um another reflection is

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the onboarding of content creators and the way that we have up until today helped podcasters

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start using bitcoin um in this way is is through this claim process within the fountain mobile app

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that again is a bit of a challenge.

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It's a bit difficult and it's kind of outside of the normal

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workflow of most podcasters.

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So yeah, the onboarding challenge

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for both listeners that are new to Bitcoin but also your average mainstream podcaster that doesn know anything about Bitcoin and doesn really want to change their workflow too much in

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terms of the way that they publish content by RSS. These two things were a big challenge.

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and at the same time, you know, Fountain and RSS Blue

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were both trying to solve this onboarding problem.

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Many of the RSS Blue hosting customers would also onboard to Fountain

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to get access to our wallet because in order to join Podcasting 2.0,

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in order to join NOSTA, you need a wallet to receive SATs.

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um so for the past year um myself dovidas and nick have been you know talking all of this through

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and trying to come up with an answer to the question of how do we make this easier for

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content creators for podcasters and also for their audience so that the benefits that we see

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in terms of micropayments, open content, open social, open payments can be realized

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and it's just easier to get started with.

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And about six months ago, we made the decision to actually join forces

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as Fountain and RSS Blue to combine and offer a dedicated podcast hosting solution

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that makes the onboarding, but also the, I guess, success much more easy and kind of integrated into

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the content publishing workflow. What this means for podcasters is that they can do everything

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in one place. They can manage the content uploads, the metadata, the publishing, the distribution,

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the audience analytics, the download analytics. But importantly, and this is what Fountain has

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kind of developed over the past few years, but the monetization analytics and the social element

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that NOSTA brings as well.

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So the new Fountain hosting product,

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which is a combination of, as I say,

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Fountain's expertise in payments and social

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and then RSS Blue's expertise

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in terms of distribution and RSS feed generation.

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This new podcast hosting product from Fountain

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brings that all together.

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And our goal is really to onboard mainstream podcasting to the Bitcoin Lightning Network, but also NOSTA, because we believe that these two technologies are kind of the missing pieces in open podcasting to compete with the big centralized platforms like YouTube and Spotify.

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And it's funny, we were actually just at a podcast conference yesterday. And all of the companies that exist within open podcasting, the existing podcast hosting companies, the other apps that are not the big two in Apple and Spotify, are all worried about YouTube and Spotify taking over open podcasting and kind of like sucking everything in.

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into their walled gardens.

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And so open podcasting is looking for features

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and technologies that can up-level the way open podcasting works

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in comparison to these centralized platforms,

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which obviously have an easier job in terms of doing things

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like comments and payments.

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So, yeah, I know I've kind of taken a long-winded answer there,

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But I think it's useful to set the backstory to this.

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And we think that by combining forces, we can really bring open payments and open social to the wider podcasting industry.

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And so that's why, yeah, Fountain and RSS Blue have joined forces.

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This is kind of a big deal, Oscar.

328
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Fountain and RSS Blue are coming together to create this cohesive hosting and listening experience, right?

329
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So not only do you cater to the podcasters themselves, end-to-end, right?

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The end-to-end workflow for the most part for podcasters, you also cater to the listeners themselves.

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Is there, maybe David will ask you this,

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Are you aware of any other product that's this integrated, essentially vertically integrated across the board?

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So the fact that Fountain has both hosting and app helps us a lot in experimenting with stuff, especially when it comes to payments.

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But I want to make it 100% clear that we do want to have these two products as separate things.

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On the hosting side, Fountain is a hosting company that produces your RSS feed and publishes that in an open way.

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And that RSS feed is available to absolutely everyone, whether that would be legacy apps like Spotify or Apple or modern podcasting 2.0 apps or even any other, let's say, Nostra clients who would want to ingest other forms of content like RSS feeds.

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On the other hand, having the app side helps us so much to test all of these new ideas in terms of monetization of content, seeing what works and what doesn't, and helping us iterate very quickly based on that feedback, which is real-world users.

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just to reiterate some of the points that Oscar made previously

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when RSS Blue started as a hosting company my role has been to help podcasters publish their

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podcast in the open podcasting ecosystem that means you need to have a nice user interface

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You have to have an ability to upload files, store them, and serve them to all of the users.

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But over time, I want to adapt all of these new amazing features like value blocks, which allow podcasters to get paid, chapters, transcripts, and so on.

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And each of these features require additional infrastructure for all of this.

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And it's especially true for payments, especially in the last six months, I would say.

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One of the greatest struggles at RSS Blue has been the onboarding process.

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Firstly, due to the fact that up until this point, and that is changing, only a certain

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subset of lighting walls have been allowed to be entered into the RSS feeds.

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those that support the KeySend protocol.

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Now, that is changing, and that will allow us to offer many more options for podcasters

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in terms of what kind of wallets they could use.

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But before that, there were very few and limited options in terms of what they could use.

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We had Albi, we had Fountain, and we had a lot of people hosting their own Lightning nodes.

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but with the recent changes at albi we for many of the podcasters that was not an option

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because many of them were not willing to pay for that service every month so

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what i have been doing is for those podcasters that are more technically proficient and have

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experiment with bitcoin before having a lightning node is an option but it's a very advanced option

357
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And for many other podcasters, the only choice has been Fountain.

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So it has been a very natural relationship in terms of how I've been onboarding many of the podcasters into the value-for-value ecosystem.

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Now it is much easier for those podcasters who choose Fountain for Podcasters to get the value directly from the listeners.

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whether that would be on the Fountain app or anywhere else.

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And moving forward, it's going to get even easier

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once we adapt the lighting address wallets in the RSS feeds.

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People could even use their Cash App wallet to receive sats

364
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on their own podcast with splits included.

365
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So I think that is so, so exciting.

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And having RSS Blue and Fountain being this one platform

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Fountain for Podcasters helps us push many of these changes much faster.

368
00:33:12,944 --> 00:33:20,124
Does that mean, Davidas, that RSS Blue will remain as a standalone option?

369
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Or is the only way to use RSS Blue is through the Fountain integration?

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so ours as blue uh in the next few months will be retired as a service there will only be fountain

371
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for podcasters for now it's still alive just to help the existing customers both podcasters and

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music artists to either be on board at the fountain for podcasters or choose another service based on

373
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what their preferences and requirements are.

374
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But yes, moving forward,

375
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it is going to be a fountain for podcasters.

376
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Interesting.

377
00:34:03,724 --> 00:34:07,664
Yeah, and Avi, I just want to say that both,

378
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I mean, Oscar has been a visionary

379
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throughout this, through our talks with him.

380
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I mean, the last convo was making podcasting social

381
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and it was, to me, a tremendous success.

382
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Dovidas was instrumental in helping us and has been a huge help to the Value for Value community, all these live stream events, everything.

383
00:34:30,664 --> 00:34:52,724
I mean, I feel like, you know, at the very least, if you have doubts about, you know, RSS Blue basically not going to be a service anymore standalone, you really got to be interested in Fountain Premium or Fountain in general.

384
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So I trust the future, and I think we made the right choice, Avi.

385
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And we'll see how it goes.

386
00:35:03,084 --> 00:35:20,175
But it something that I really looking forward to more features and everything that you know the track record speaks for itself in many ways Is there any new features maybe rolling out that maybe you can still talk about here

387
00:35:20,535 --> 00:35:25,755
I know that you had live streaming prior and that kind of went away.

388
00:35:25,795 --> 00:35:33,835
And I don't know if that was just in a testing phase, but that's something that, you know, we would love to see, you know, Zap.Stream stream to there.

389
00:35:34,335 --> 00:35:43,755
And I know it's possible, being that we have a show in less than, well, almost an hour and change launching from the UK.

390
00:35:43,755 --> 00:35:54,335
So maybe talk about the possibility of features, maybe things that you would love to see, some of that visionary mind that you seem to carry, Oscar.

391
00:35:55,995 --> 00:35:57,856
Yeah, so it's a great question.

392
00:35:58,035 --> 00:36:03,436
And there's so much that we have planned in terms of the roadmap for Fountain hosting.

393
00:36:03,436 --> 00:36:15,015
um in to give like a general answer what we want to do is help podcasters um you know make money

394
00:36:15,015 --> 00:36:22,555
for their content without having to go down the advertising model up until now obviously in the

395
00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:29,095
fountain app we've had the ability to send boosts which is a one-off payment with a message and also

396
00:36:29,095 --> 00:36:36,876
to stream stats for every minute that you listen to an episode. The kind of headline new payments

397
00:36:36,876 --> 00:36:44,335
feature that we have launched with Fountain Hosting is subscriptions. So if you are hosted

398
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with Fountain, you can set up a paid subscription. And this can be a purely value for value

399
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subscription where people can just pay you monthly because they love your content or as a

400
00:37:01,335 --> 00:37:07,795
podcaster you can also do things like bonus episodes, ad-free versions if you do have ads

401
00:37:07,795 --> 00:37:16,815
and early access. The goal of these new payment features is kind of twofold. Number one we've seen

402
00:37:16,815 --> 00:37:23,295
from speaking to existing users of Fountain that, you know, sometimes people do just want to pay

403
00:37:23,295 --> 00:37:28,715
on a monthly basis, because as much as you love a show, and you listen to every episode,

404
00:37:28,715 --> 00:37:34,335
you might just forget to boost or, you know, you can't think of anything to say in your boost

405
00:37:34,335 --> 00:37:40,675
message that month. And so we've heard from a lot of users and also a lot of podcasters that

406
00:37:40,675 --> 00:37:45,975
subscriptions would be a great kind of additional layer to the value for value stack.

407
00:37:46,815 --> 00:37:56,396
The other reason that we launched the subscription product is because we can see this working so well on platforms like Patreon,

408
00:37:56,396 --> 00:38:09,215
but just with a lot worse of a user experience and another example of a walled garden where the content only exists in one place and you can never get access to it.

409
00:38:09,215 --> 00:38:18,275
you know probably a lot of people listening to this um you know either have themselves or know

410
00:38:18,275 --> 00:38:25,936
someone that you know pays monthly for a podcast on patreon and most people do that not for anything

411
00:38:25,936 --> 00:38:31,795
in return it is kind of a value for value model uh they just you know pay because they love the

412
00:38:31,795 --> 00:38:38,235
content so what we're trying to do is essentially recreate some of those features that patreon has

413
00:38:38,235 --> 00:38:47,715
but add in the open payment mechanism and also the open content and open social via NOSTA because

414
00:38:47,715 --> 00:38:56,655
the way that Patreon works is they have this kind of internal commenting and posting mechanism where

415
00:38:56,655 --> 00:39:04,635
you know if I go and subscribe to a creator on Patreon I can go and you know write a message

416
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in the Patreon, inside of the Patreon platform,

417
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but that doesn't go anywhere

418
00:39:09,696 --> 00:39:12,956
and it doesn't really kind of flow out

419
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to provide discovery anywhere else.

420
00:39:16,655 --> 00:39:19,975
Obviously, what we've done with our NOSTA integration

421
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is we allow any of the content that's generated

422
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within Fountain to flow out into the wider NOSTA ecosystem

423
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and be surfaced, be liked, be reposted,

424
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you know, go trending, any of these things.

425
00:39:34,635 --> 00:39:41,595
And I think that's where we're going to see the additional value compared to what Patreon does.

426
00:39:41,595 --> 00:39:57,075
And our goal with this is to help podcasters that already have a subscription to join a more open ecosystem of payments and of social.

427
00:39:57,075 --> 00:40:23,735
And we think this is going to be a great way for content creators to increase the revenue that those subscriptions provide, but also not have to, you know, suffer the consequences of hindering their discovery by, you know, having all of the praise about that show or about an episode be locked into, you know, a walled garden like Patreon.

428
00:40:23,735 --> 00:40:32,575
so yeah the subscriptions are a really important feature for us and um yeah we're excited to

429
00:40:32,575 --> 00:40:42,456
to see how people use them and then to your point about live streams um there is so much exciting

430
00:40:42,456 --> 00:40:52,075
stuff that we can do combining the power of rss nosda and lightning um we we launched a kind of

431
00:40:52,075 --> 00:40:58,715
beta version of Nostra live streams in the fountain app a few months ago and they still

432
00:40:58,715 --> 00:41:05,135
actually exist in the fountain app it's just that we haven't kind of turned them on by default

433
00:41:05,135 --> 00:41:11,095
because you know we saw a few issues with zap stream and we just weren't 100% confident that

434
00:41:11,095 --> 00:41:20,235
they were kind of ready to be a full feature but the gig that's happening today down in Essex is

435
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going to be live streamed through the NOSTA live stream service within the fountain app so anyone

436
00:41:26,876 --> 00:41:31,535
that's interested in listening to that you can jump into the fountain app it will be there on

437
00:41:31,535 --> 00:41:37,675
the home screen we've got video we've got you know live chat powered by NOSTA we've got zaps

438
00:41:37,675 --> 00:41:45,956
we've got you know the total amounts there so live streams is is one thing and then I think

439
00:41:45,956 --> 00:41:54,495
there's a lot more we can do um as well with things like music you know i think the power

440
00:41:54,495 --> 00:42:03,135
of combining music with podcasts is something that is so exciting it enables so many cool things that

441
00:42:03,135 --> 00:42:11,675
you weren't able to do before in terms of having you know artists or anyone really combine spoken

442
00:42:11,675 --> 00:42:18,095
word with music but still have that money go towards the artist i also think it um is really

443
00:42:18,095 --> 00:42:24,035
exciting as we build in more nostre features to have interoperability um in terms of things like

444
00:42:24,035 --> 00:42:31,735
things like playlists um so yeah there's there's so much we want to do i think for the next you know

445
00:42:31,735 --> 00:42:38,476
few weeks we're going to be really focused on just nailing the hosting experience and making sure we

446
00:42:38,476 --> 00:42:45,075
are up to par on not only the distribution features that podcast hosting companies provide

447
00:42:45,075 --> 00:42:51,175
but also the monetization features that platforms like patreon and memberful provide because

448
00:42:51,175 --> 00:42:57,956
fountain hosting does both of these things it distributes your podcast everywhere it gives you

449
00:42:57,956 --> 00:43:03,075
analytics on you know how many people are listening across which different apps and regions

450
00:43:03,075 --> 00:43:12,195
but it also delivers a subscription product value for value boost streams social activity around that

451
00:43:12,195 --> 00:43:17,436
you know who your top supporters what what are their NOSTA profiles so there's a lot going on

452
00:43:17,436 --> 00:43:24,876
in the hosting product and we want to nail that so we can show you know all of these incredible

453
00:43:24,876 --> 00:43:31,615
podcasters out there in the world who are using patreon who are using member for but don't really

454
00:43:31,615 --> 00:43:37,535
understand that their content because of those decisions they are locking their content in a

455
00:43:37,535 --> 00:43:43,936
walled garden and and their discovery is capped and we think that if we can offer the same experience

456
00:43:43,936 --> 00:43:50,335
that patreon do but in an open way show them the power of NOSTA whereby if somebody you know

457
00:43:50,335 --> 00:43:57,876
subscribes to their show or sends a boost that can travel anywhere in any NOSTA client and be seen by

458
00:43:57,876 --> 00:44:04,936
that person's followers we think we can really bring people into Nostra and bring people into

459
00:44:04,936 --> 00:44:11,035
Lightning which is really exciting so it's going to be a balance over the next few weeks and months

460
00:44:11,035 --> 00:44:18,215
between doing what I just spoke about and and some of the newer things like like live streams

461
00:44:18,215 --> 00:44:24,315
but yeah we we've got a really exciting roadmap ahead and I can't wait to to release some of the

462
00:44:24,315 --> 00:44:31,376
newer stuff that we're working on so to recap there oscar the main new thing that's coming is

463
00:44:31,376 --> 00:44:38,535
obviously from the podcaster's perspective hosting and all the ancillary important but ancillary

464
00:44:38,535 --> 00:44:44,856
benefits that come from that such as dashboards analytics and what have you and then the

465
00:44:44,856 --> 00:44:53,595
subscription offering itself which presents itself to the listeners in the form of either early access

466
00:44:53,595 --> 00:44:59,416
to an episode or exclusive access to bonus episodes.

467
00:44:59,416 --> 00:45:02,876
And in the case where there's an ad version,

468
00:45:03,075 --> 00:45:04,755
they get the ad-free version potentially.

469
00:45:06,835 --> 00:45:08,416
Was that a good summary

470
00:45:08,416 --> 00:45:10,695
or is there more from a core feature standpoint?

471
00:45:11,735 --> 00:45:12,575
Yeah, that's correct.

472
00:45:12,755 --> 00:45:14,956
You nailed it in terms of summarizing it.

473
00:45:15,155 --> 00:45:16,956
And the important thing with the subscription

474
00:45:16,956 --> 00:45:19,856
is some podcasters will do it purely value for value.

475
00:45:20,015 --> 00:45:21,655
So you won't actually get anything

476
00:45:21,655 --> 00:45:22,695
for paying the subscription.

477
00:45:22,695 --> 00:45:30,916
other podcasters will do things like early access ad-free versions and bonus episodes um so yeah

478
00:45:30,916 --> 00:45:37,175
let's talk about uh the early access version so that let's say a podcaster

479
00:45:37,175 --> 00:45:44,815
creates the early access for subscribers with so meaning if you're a non-subscriber you get the

480
00:45:44,815 --> 00:45:52,635
episode on a 24-hour delay what happens if as a non-subscriber uh you go to fountain so actually

481
00:45:52,635 --> 00:45:57,235
two cases here right you go to fountain and you can click on play within that early access period

482
00:45:57,235 --> 00:46:02,876
what happens there or what happens to someone who goes to apple or spotify within that early access

483
00:46:02,876 --> 00:46:10,315
period and tries to play the podcast yeah this is a great question and there's a lot of like nuances

484
00:46:10,315 --> 00:46:12,876
in terms of how this works, especially on the other apps.

485
00:46:13,376 --> 00:46:19,675
In Fountain, if a podcaster releases an early access or bonus episode,

486
00:46:20,195 --> 00:46:22,515
you can just see it right there in your library

487
00:46:22,515 --> 00:46:26,015
if you're subscribed to that show, and you can see it on the show page.

488
00:46:26,095 --> 00:46:27,775
It just looks like any other episode.

489
00:46:28,255 --> 00:46:30,995
In order to play that episode, though,

490
00:46:31,555 --> 00:46:35,075
or get the ad-free version or get the bonus version,

491
00:46:35,675 --> 00:46:39,456
you will need to either pay for the monthly subscription

492
00:46:39,456 --> 00:46:44,655
or you can also just purchase the episode on a one-off basis.

493
00:46:46,295 --> 00:46:52,675
And what's cool about this is you can pay with your fountain wallet

494
00:46:52,447 --> 00:46:58,127
in sats but you can also just pay with a bank card so we have multiple currency options and

495
00:46:58,127 --> 00:47:06,947
this is part of the strategy of helping mainstream podcasting slowly dip their toes in the water in

496
00:47:06,947 --> 00:47:12,347
terms of using the lightning network because that's kind of what we're hearing from them

497
00:47:12,347 --> 00:47:20,727
so you can pay for the subscription or you can purchase the one-time product what's really really

498
00:47:20,727 --> 00:47:29,427
cool about this though is as Dovadas said the hosting product and the Fountain app are totally

499
00:47:29,427 --> 00:47:38,007
separate there's no actual platform integration everything goes through the RSS feed and we're

500
00:47:38,007 --> 00:47:45,947
actually using a combination of some of the new podcasting 2.0 tags like the alternate enclosure

501
00:47:45,947 --> 00:47:57,267
but also the L402 protocol and NosterAuth to allow any app or Noster client to surface these

502
00:47:57,267 --> 00:48:05,067
premium options and also allow their users to purchase the content so again what's cool about

503
00:48:05,067 --> 00:48:15,427
this is as a podcaster you can create a subscription you can offer bonus content and have any app that

504
00:48:15,427 --> 00:48:21,847
chooses to consume the freely available metadata in the RSS feed surface those products and allow

505
00:48:21,847 --> 00:48:28,167
people to pay and I think that you know one thing we've heard is there's some people out there that

506
00:48:28,167 --> 00:48:35,107
don't like this right there's some people that are I would say value for value purists they believe

507
00:48:35,107 --> 00:48:43,567
that you know no content should ever be paywalled and you know that's the kind of thing that they're

508
00:48:43,567 --> 00:48:51,327
going to never change their minds about. My view is that it should be up to the content creator,

509
00:48:51,327 --> 00:48:59,667
how they monetize their content. And we as a platform offering a service and a product should

510
00:48:59,667 --> 00:49:06,587
not mandate that to podcasters. Some of the best podcast content I have ever listened to

511
00:49:06,587 --> 00:49:13,227
was payboard. I've probably mentioned this on some of the last chats that we had, but

512
00:49:13,227 --> 00:49:19,727
Dan Carlin Hardcore History is one of my favorite podcasts it's incredible content

513
00:49:19,727 --> 00:49:27,967
the episodes are like six hours long and he only releases new episodes you know sometimes he goes

514
00:49:27,967 --> 00:49:34,867
an entire year without releasing new episodes and he he sells those episodes as paywalled content

515
00:49:34,867 --> 00:49:41,227
and I've purchased them and it's totally worth it and you know that's that's his decision that's his

516
00:49:41,227 --> 00:49:51,467
prerogative. And for us to achieve our goal of bringing mainstream open podcasting into, you know,

517
00:49:51,907 --> 00:49:59,527
NOSTA, into the Bitcoin Lightning Network, we need to cater for what they want, not what we believe

518
00:49:59,527 --> 00:50:04,907
ideologically. And so that's why we have these premium offerings as well.

519
00:50:04,907 --> 00:50:10,867
well we we certainly faced uh quite a lot of pushback when we announced this

520
00:50:10,867 --> 00:50:18,387
last week which is why we wrote a whole sermon um obviously i should make it clear that was a

521
00:50:18,387 --> 00:50:25,347
satirical sermon from earlier in the show saying that there is no such thing as value for value

522
00:50:25,347 --> 00:50:29,907
because as you pointed out oscar a lot of the purity tests in value for value tend to be

523
00:50:29,907 --> 00:50:35,467
incredibly reductive and you end up in this no true Scotsman type scenario, right?

524
00:50:38,287 --> 00:50:40,507
Well, if I may add something.

525
00:50:41,007 --> 00:50:42,327
Yeah, please, please, Zoe Daz.

526
00:50:43,527 --> 00:50:52,727
I think we have to, and me admittedly, with RSS Blue, I can admit that the whole time that RSS

527
00:50:52,727 --> 00:50:59,607
Blue was developed, my focus has been pure value for value. But I can also acknowledge that there

528
00:50:59,607 --> 00:51:08,207
have been many challenges in people trying to use exclusively value for value content

529
00:51:08,207 --> 00:51:16,307
to make a living. And it's not the only issue. Value for value is not the only issue where

530
00:51:16,307 --> 00:51:24,487
this attempt to stick to the ideal principles doesn't always work.

531
00:51:24,487 --> 00:51:47,007
One other example would be this idea of direct payments. From the start, the appeal of value for value payments, especially in RSS feeds with value tags where you can have multiple splits, has been incredibly appealing because you don't have to have middlemen.

532
00:51:47,007 --> 00:51:56,707
if there are two co-hosts on a show each of them can have a split and the listeners pay directly to

533
00:51:56,707 --> 00:52:05,487
the hosts but there have been challenges with that too if there is say a live event and people want

534
00:52:05,487 --> 00:52:12,267
to boost that event and all the artists are that are performing and all the staff the existing

535
00:52:12,267 --> 00:52:18,747
Lightning wallets don't have the capability to essentially pay multiple people at once.

536
00:52:19,007 --> 00:52:24,167
There's usually one QR code with a Lightning address, and it goes to a single wallet.

537
00:52:25,587 --> 00:52:33,807
And one of the things I've done for bans at Bitcoin event last July in Nashville was to think,

538
00:52:33,807 --> 00:52:41,287
how could we actually have a nice compromise where people with regular Lightning wallets

539
00:52:41,287 --> 00:52:46,807
can pay the artists, but we also split the payments to both the performing artists,

540
00:52:47,427 --> 00:52:53,547
staff, event organizers, and so on. And one of the things I came up with was this essentially

541
00:52:53,547 --> 00:52:58,767
this QR code that you would see on a screen, you would send the SATs to a single wallet,

542
00:52:59,287 --> 00:53:04,867
and only then would they be forwarded to all the individual recipients.

543
00:53:04,867 --> 00:53:20,167
Is that a pure implementation of direct payments? No. But it did achieve its purpose in getting the sats from the listeners to the artists and staff in seconds.

544
00:53:20,167 --> 00:53:27,767
So I think there is a lot of room for evolution of many of these ideas.

545
00:53:28,547 --> 00:53:44,627
I find value for value incredibly appealing, but I also think that when it comes to monetization, we should have the choice on the creator's side in terms of how they want to earn a living.

546
00:53:44,627 --> 00:53:53,627
and let me go back to um my early days of fountain uh you know i i go back to and i've said this

547
00:53:53,627 --> 00:54:01,027
before when my phone was overheating and uh it was and i could tell you know they kept uh you know

548
00:54:01,027 --> 00:54:06,767
you guys kept rolling out uh new updates and uh it would appear to fix it and then it might come

549
00:54:06,767 --> 00:54:13,527
back but these are early times a lot of uh a lot of uh trying things out was going on and and and

550
00:54:13,527 --> 00:54:20,907
maybe bug squashing. But ever since then, I had the option to pay for the monthly subscription,

551
00:54:21,127 --> 00:54:26,287
and it was $2.99. And I had no exposure to value for value at the time. So I'm just a

552
00:54:26,287 --> 00:54:34,487
gentle pleb that saw an app that was focused. It appeared, I mean, obviously, the early adopters,

553
00:54:34,487 --> 00:54:43,387
but very much Bitcoin podcasts. Bitcoin was a native wallet within it. I saw that this is where

554
00:54:43,387 --> 00:54:49,287
I want to put my money. I want to support. It had nothing to do with the features. You know,

555
00:54:49,347 --> 00:54:54,947
granted, clipping was cool. But it was something that even the clipping didn't work at the time,

556
00:54:55,027 --> 00:54:59,367
it would have bugs here and there. So there were some rollouts that were going on. But

557
00:54:59,367 --> 00:55:08,607
I knew that I wanted to support the roadmap of Fountain. And, you know, in my mind, you know,

558
00:55:08,607 --> 00:55:14,447
without knowing anything about value for value, it really was value for value. I wanted to support

559
00:55:14,447 --> 00:55:22,107
a greater mission and, you know, to truly get it off, you know, get Fountain, you know, launch or

560
00:55:22,107 --> 00:55:27,327
get the development it needed, whatever it is, I knew my $2.99, although small,

561
00:55:27,747 --> 00:55:33,047
was something that would help in this greater mission. And, you know, I think that's if we're

562
00:55:33,047 --> 00:55:37,667
truly going to get to value for value scale, because we know it works, but we need the scale,

563
00:55:37,667 --> 00:55:56,327
We need people with micropayments. We need a lot of people listening. We need a lot of people interacting. All these things, it's a flywheel effect. And there's no reason in my mind that Value for Value can't have just your standard legacy rails too.

564
00:55:56,327 --> 00:56:04,467
And it's tough to kind of decipher for me what true value for value is when to me that was value.

565
00:56:04,607 --> 00:56:09,267
I knew what the mission was and I was putting my fiat at work.

566
00:56:09,847 --> 00:56:19,867
So it's only until recently I'm learning about the Puritans and how maybe I'm not truly doing it.

567
00:56:19,907 --> 00:56:22,607
But in my mind, in my heart, I feel like I am.

568
00:56:22,607 --> 00:56:31,847
yeah and i remember those days oscar yeah yeah i i remember those days with a grimace

569
00:56:31,847 --> 00:56:39,347
with a grimace on my face i can only imagine the back room there yeah i mean you know i think i

570
00:56:39,347 --> 00:56:46,027
mentioned this um you know maybe the first time we spoke but you know fountain started as a side

571
00:56:46,027 --> 00:56:54,607
project i built the app myself and had never built a mobile app before so yeah it was it was rusty

572
00:56:54,607 --> 00:57:01,527
as hell when we first launched and you know the people that supported us from the beginning gave

573
00:57:01,527 --> 00:57:11,107
us the confidence to continue pushing forward and yeah those 2.99 subscriptions that people

574
00:57:11,107 --> 00:57:17,047
you know pay for are incredibly helpful to us that that's what keeps us going and i think that

575
00:57:17,047 --> 00:57:24,807
if you look at the fountain app today it really is you know it's come so far since then i think

576
00:57:24,807 --> 00:57:31,147
you know the more people that are coming from you know the legacy mainstream podcasting apps

577
00:57:31,147 --> 00:57:36,627
like apple and spotify with the recent design refresh that we rolled out just a month ago

578
00:57:36,627 --> 00:57:44,407
you know people whereas before they might say oh I'm not so sure about this or you know this

579
00:57:44,407 --> 00:57:50,247
feature's missing compared to Spotify now we've got a really solid foundation with the app and

580
00:57:50,247 --> 00:57:54,647
and we wouldn't have been able to get here without people supporting us through the premium

581
00:57:54,647 --> 00:58:01,447
subscription and I think you know subscriptions are just easy people are used to subscriptions and

582
00:58:01,447 --> 00:58:18,807
You've got to remember that whether you are, you know, an app developer trying to make money from your app or you're a podcaster putting out content and you want to earn a living from your content, it's the same thing.

583
00:58:18,927 --> 00:58:21,907
And you're going to have a range in your audience.

584
00:58:22,647 --> 00:58:25,247
Some people, they want to support you.

585
00:58:25,347 --> 00:58:26,547
They want to pay you.

586
00:58:26,827 --> 00:58:29,447
But they just, you know, they have a busy life.

587
00:58:29,447 --> 00:58:42,199
They not able to spend all of that time and do all of that research And everybody who has a phone knows how to buy a subscription via Apple Pay

588
00:58:42,919 --> 00:58:44,019
Everybody's done it.

589
00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:48,819
So by offering a subscription product for podcasters,

590
00:58:48,819 --> 00:58:56,779
we hope to help them make more money and bring people into the future

591
00:58:56,779 --> 00:59:03,839
that we want to see, which is open content via RSS, open payments via Lightning, and open social

592
00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:12,199
via NOSTA. And I think that this is so important for NOSTA as well, because I believe that NOSTA

593
00:59:12,199 --> 00:59:22,799
is not going to, you know, achieve the scale that we want it to, unless we bridge into existing

594
00:59:22,799 --> 00:59:32,199
communities existing technologies and meet people where they are and solve real problems for them

595
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:40,919
and i think within podcasting nosta can do that you know we are um you know it was it was painful

596
00:59:40,919 --> 00:59:48,459
to switch the way the social features work in fountain over to nosta but it still blows my

597
00:59:48,459 --> 00:59:56,579
mind when I'm you know browsing through the damas or primal feed and I see a boost that was sent from

598
00:59:56,579 --> 01:00:03,559
fountain I see the amount I see the episode I can click on that episode or I'm looking at the

599
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:12,259
fountain NOSTA feed and I see a a post about an episode that was created you know 48 hours ago

600
01:00:12,259 --> 01:00:17,799
which I would have totally missed in one of the kind of primary NOSTA client feeds.

601
01:00:18,379 --> 01:00:22,399
This is the kind of thing that open podcasting needs.

602
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:28,239
And so, but it's totally new and it's intimidating to, you know,

603
01:00:28,239 --> 01:00:36,759
people that are already running quickly with their existing either podcast businesses or shows.

604
01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:40,139
And we need to meet them where they are.

605
01:00:40,139 --> 01:00:59,959
And that's why, you know, these familiar payment options like subscriptions, like the ability to pay with a bank card are so important so that we can, you know, give a little in order to almost like bring the Trojan horse into the industry, which is NOSTA and Lightning.

606
01:01:02,999 --> 01:01:04,059
QW is there?

607
01:01:04,439 --> 01:01:06,419
Can I go ahead, Alvi?

608
01:01:06,419 --> 01:01:13,699
i was just going to just tell you one of the first things we discovered right after the

609
01:01:13,699 --> 01:01:21,819
nostre the social layer of fountain became nostre was our old episodes had all sorts of comments

610
01:01:21,819 --> 01:01:28,519
and engagement we which we'd completely missed yeah yeah the discoverability goes both ways both

611
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:34,759
from the creator to the uh the listener or yeah it's just social in general and what what's so

612
01:01:34,759 --> 01:01:40,239
cool about this is and I speak to a lot of podcasters so does David S like we're speaking

613
01:01:40,239 --> 01:01:49,959
to podcasters all the time and you know you don't even need to say the word NOSTA to explain

614
01:01:49,959 --> 01:01:59,479
how big of a deal this is because what you can just describe is what happens on existing social

615
01:01:59,479 --> 01:02:08,799
media platforms so the two examples that I always use are number one if I am watching a YouTube video

616
01:02:08,799 --> 01:02:15,259
YouTube is one of the biggest podcast apps if not the biggest because a lot of people you know

617
01:02:15,259 --> 01:02:22,559
watch podcasts or even don't they don't watch they just listen via the audio on YouTube wouldn't it

618
01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:28,539
be cool if you could while when you're looking at a YouTube video see the comments from the people

619
01:02:28,539 --> 01:02:35,819
that you follow on you know twitter or x or instagram or facebook that would be incredibly

620
01:02:35,819 --> 01:02:41,719
valuable in terms of um helping you make a decision about whether to watch the content

621
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:48,499
or just you know seeing some additional context from someone that you respect the second one

622
01:02:48,499 --> 01:02:56,259
is like seeing posts specifically about podcasts in your main social media feed

623
01:02:56,259 --> 01:03:03,179
and when I explain these two things to podcasters that know nothing about NOSTA they don't care about

624
01:03:03,179 --> 01:03:08,199
open standards they don't care about interoperability you know that they're not really

625
01:03:08,199 --> 01:03:16,159
in it for an ideological reason or they care about the technology they understand these problems and

626
01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:22,499
and how powerful it would be if you could solve them and if you could make the kind of the flow

627
01:03:22,499 --> 01:03:24,939
of social data more open.

628
01:03:25,759 --> 01:03:28,679
So that's how we explain NOSTA

629
01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:33,099
to kind of the existing podcast industry.

630
01:03:33,299 --> 01:03:36,139
And I think it has a real chance

631
01:03:36,139 --> 01:03:39,859
of playing a major part within open podcasting.

632
01:03:40,059 --> 01:03:44,839
But we need to meet the industry where it's at

633
01:03:44,839 --> 01:03:47,639
in order to kind of have the chance of that happening.

634
01:03:52,499 --> 01:03:59,219
So, talking about boosts versus apps, because that's always been a big one.

635
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:11,739
Are we starting to see, now, has boosts, have they developed, the boost side, is there now LNURL options?

636
01:04:12,359 --> 01:04:16,019
Or are they going to be functionally indistinguishable at one point?

637
01:04:16,979 --> 01:04:20,879
Yeah, so this is what Dovidas was mentioning earlier.

638
01:04:20,879 --> 01:04:35,799
Over the past six months, we've been working hard to try and change the podcasting 2.0 value spec, basically the part of the RSS feed specification that deals with the Lightning network.

639
01:04:35,999 --> 01:04:42,399
We've been pushing to change the spec from Keysend to LNURL and Bolt 11.

640
01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:47,619
The reason being that there's more and more companies every day that are integrating Lightning.

641
01:04:47,619 --> 01:04:51,779
they're all integrating Bolt 11 and LNURL,

642
01:04:51,899 --> 01:04:55,499
but none of them are integrating or supporting Keysend.

643
01:04:56,439 --> 01:04:59,139
I think we're like almost there.

644
01:04:59,539 --> 01:05:02,339
You know, Fountain is kind of already supporting

645
01:05:02,339 --> 01:05:05,919
these new Bolt 11 Lightning address splits

646
01:05:05,919 --> 01:05:07,259
within the RSS feed.

647
01:05:07,879 --> 01:05:10,699
And I think at some point in the next,

648
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:12,899
let's say two or three months,

649
01:05:12,919 --> 01:05:14,459
we'll completely switch over.

650
01:05:14,459 --> 01:05:28,939
And so what that will mean is all podcasting 2.0 apps and hosting companies that support the spec will use lightning address splits as opposed to key send splits.

651
01:05:29,139 --> 01:05:40,159
The benefit of this, of course, is if you are, you know, let's say you interview someone in a particular episode and you say, hey, what's your lightning address?

652
01:05:40,159 --> 01:05:45,679
I'll put you in the splits. That is a million times easier than saying, hey, what's your

653
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:54,019
keysend node pub key? And how do I find that? And it's just a mess. And oh, do I have the right

654
01:05:54,019 --> 01:05:58,439
Lightning address that supports that? So I think that's going to go a long way. And as Doradas

655
01:05:58,439 --> 01:06:04,959
mentioned, if you can just say, essentially, send me your cash app username, and I'll put you in the

656
01:06:04,959 --> 01:06:10,619
splits and the money just starts rolling in by lightning that's incredibly cool um so yeah we're

657
01:06:10,619 --> 01:06:18,979
excited for that uh migration to happen and going back to the question of boosts and zaps i think

658
01:06:18,979 --> 01:06:27,059
like our perspective is the naming will evolve over time naturally we don't have a particular

659
01:06:27,059 --> 01:06:34,019
um you know hard preference on what it ends up being i think the one thing i will say though

660
01:06:34,019 --> 01:06:42,619
is currently a boost within the podcasting 2.0 world is like a broadcast payment so you are

661
01:06:42,619 --> 01:06:49,579
sending a payment with a message and you're also sharing that message with everybody whereas a zap

662
01:06:49,579 --> 01:06:56,459
is kind of like a reaction level uh thing and these things merge together like on zap.stream

663
01:06:56,459 --> 01:07:02,359
the way zaps work is they do appear in the chat feed so it's a little bit more like a boost

664
01:07:02,359 --> 01:07:08,279
ultimately it doesn't matter it's just about sending money to the content creators that you

665
01:07:08,279 --> 01:07:14,779
love in a fun way and i'm sure we'll see a lot more like experimentation around this as we move

666
01:07:14,779 --> 01:07:23,859
forward how pivotal uh was that austin value for value live show with adam curry i know right after

667
01:07:23,859 --> 01:07:32,699
that event, maybe even the day after, Adam did that note on Noster. I'm convinced RSS and Noster

668
01:07:32,699 --> 01:07:41,659
belong together. How pivotal was that in kind of the culture of the value for value podcasting 2.0

669
01:07:41,659 --> 01:07:47,119
category and then the Bitcoin Zap Noster category?

670
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:58,379
Do you feel like that event brought people together and maybe that boost for Zap was reinvigorated to be emerged?

671
01:07:59,739 --> 01:08:08,219
Yeah, definitely. I think these live events play such a huge role in demonstrating to people how this technology works.

672
01:08:08,219 --> 01:08:17,759
And at the end of the day, if there's a big number on the board at the end of the night and everyone can see, wow, look how much these artists got paid.

673
01:08:18,079 --> 01:08:21,039
And hopefully tonight we'll have another one of those.

674
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:30,059
Then the details of, you know, which part of the system is powered by RSS, which part of the system is powered by NOSTA.

675
01:08:30,339 --> 01:08:33,899
You know, is it a boost? Is it a zap? You know, how does it work?

676
01:08:33,899 --> 01:08:35,759
Like that kind of all melts away.

677
01:08:35,759 --> 01:08:40,939
and especially when you get people in the room together because when you're going back and forth

678
01:08:40,939 --> 01:08:48,939
online it's very easy to you know uh throw your toys out of the pram and you know complain or like

679
01:08:48,939 --> 01:08:55,159
be very strongly worded if you're in the same room together you know you realize that we're all just

680
01:08:55,159 --> 01:09:02,119
humans who want to support artists because they are putting incredible music out into the world

681
01:09:02,119 --> 01:09:04,619
And so that all kind of melts away.

682
01:09:04,779 --> 01:09:08,299
So that's why these in-person events are so important.

683
01:09:08,679 --> 01:09:11,859
I actually think like we need more experimentation.

684
01:09:12,419 --> 01:09:21,539
We need more developers to, you know, come up with more random payment flows with different names that do it slightly differently.

685
01:09:21,539 --> 01:09:29,799
Because the more experimentation we have, even if it's a bit inconsistent, I don't think that's a problem right now because it's still very early.

686
01:09:29,799 --> 01:09:53,199
What we just need is experimentation. And I think it's been cool to see, especially over the past few weeks and months, you know, some of the podcasting 2.0 developer community starting to experiment with NOSTA, like I saw Stephen B, who's created Music Side Project, which is a kind of self-hosted music distribution service through RSS.

687
01:09:53,199 --> 01:10:00,179
You know, he added a demo where the actual audio files were hosted on Blossom servers.

688
01:10:00,679 --> 01:10:02,739
So I think these things are converging.

689
01:10:03,379 --> 01:10:13,659
I think the challenge will be, you know, putting this stuff into a specification that can then be used by the wider podcasting industry, because that's what we want.

690
01:10:13,799 --> 01:10:28,791
Ultimately we want an app like Overcast for example that has you know millions of users Like we want Overcast to integrate NOSTA you know and whether that will ever happen I don know

691
01:10:28,791 --> 01:10:36,771
But in order for us to make it happen, we need to, one, demonstrate that it works in apps like Fountain and other podcasting 2.0 apps.

692
01:10:36,771 --> 01:10:44,511
to have a like a specification that is agreed and that's where podcasting 2.0 comes in because it

693
01:10:44,511 --> 01:10:50,151
gives that voice to the specification that is bigger than any one app so yeah i think we're

694
01:10:50,151 --> 01:10:57,551
making uh good progress and obviously very happy that adam has uh changed his mind yeah the uh

695
01:10:57,551 --> 01:11:05,131
you're talking about experimenting and uh obviously our subscription um i the subscription

696
01:11:05,131 --> 01:11:09,211
option. We're going to end up with Sats versus Fiat.

697
01:11:10,591 --> 01:11:13,251
And we'll see how this goes in the future.

698
01:11:13,251 --> 01:11:14,711
But yeah, thanks.

699
01:11:18,271 --> 01:11:20,891
I have, you know, Davidas, you made

700
01:11:20,891 --> 01:11:24,511
a point earlier and the nuance was lost on me.

701
01:11:24,871 --> 01:11:28,731
And it just struck me a short while back that because

702
01:11:28,731 --> 01:11:33,011
RSS is a protocol, there is no need

703
01:11:33,011 --> 01:11:37,631
for the backend hosting to be integrated with the Fountain app.

704
01:11:37,691 --> 01:11:42,091
So it really is, in some sense, a front-end integration

705
01:11:42,091 --> 01:11:46,011
to make it easier for the podcaster to look at.

706
01:11:47,731 --> 01:11:50,591
Yeah, that is kind of cool because it keeps the stack more modular.

707
01:11:53,171 --> 01:11:53,991
That's right.

708
01:11:54,871 --> 01:11:57,851
RSS is literally just a text file.

709
01:11:58,411 --> 01:12:01,491
If you look inside, you can read it.

710
01:12:01,491 --> 01:12:12,411
It's not binary format. It's just plain text. If you look into an RSS feed, you're going to find a title, you're going to find description, and you're going to find a bunch of tags called items.

711
01:12:12,411 --> 01:12:18,271
In the context of podcasts, that means individual episodes.

712
01:12:19,271 --> 01:12:28,311
So even though Fountain might offer these new features like subscriptions with, let's say, ad-free episodes,

713
01:12:29,131 --> 01:12:35,991
they will appear in the RSS feed as alternative media files.

714
01:12:35,991 --> 01:12:42,631
You have the main media file, which could be the, as an example, audio with ads.

715
01:12:43,031 --> 01:12:49,131
And then there is another alternative file with the audio without ads.

716
01:12:50,151 --> 01:12:59,351
And integrating that in the RSS feed and defining a way for the listeners to pay for that content

717
01:12:59,351 --> 01:13:11,091
allows any app, not just Fountain, but any app to create a user interface where the listener

718
01:13:11,091 --> 01:13:19,531
pays for that piece of content and gets that audio within that app, which may not necessarily

719
01:13:19,531 --> 01:13:26,611
be Fountain. So this interoperability has been crucial for us to get right from the start,

720
01:13:26,611 --> 01:13:31,351
because we do want to keep these things separate and open.

721
01:13:32,071 --> 01:13:33,511
I believe RSS is...

722
01:13:35,111 --> 01:13:38,011
RSS beauty lies in its simplicity.

723
01:13:38,951 --> 01:13:41,511
You know, that's why I named my company RSS Blue

724
01:13:41,511 --> 01:13:44,531
because I really believe in its power.

725
01:13:45,611 --> 01:13:48,871
Alternative protocols like NOSR have so many strengths

726
01:13:48,871 --> 01:13:51,531
in terms of decentralization and so on.

727
01:13:51,531 --> 01:13:53,611
But I feel with RSS,

728
01:13:53,611 --> 01:13:59,171
the simplicity is that you can give that file to anyone and they can kind of figure out what's

729
01:13:59,171 --> 01:14:03,951
happening because they can read that file and see oh this is the first episode this is the second

730
01:14:03,951 --> 01:14:10,951
episode here's the audio file and everything is in there for anyone to observe and ingest in any way

731
01:14:10,951 --> 01:14:17,791
they want and when you were here on a prior episode you did an excellent job david of explaining what

732
01:14:17,791 --> 01:14:23,391
that file has and the different sections of that file, the namespace, and what have you.

733
01:14:23,491 --> 01:14:29,551
So one of the segments in that file specifies what type of, so Oscar was making this point

734
01:14:29,551 --> 01:14:41,651
about switching over to LNURL from the keysend node ID, which I've hosted a podcast on rss.com.

735
01:14:41,951 --> 01:14:43,351
That's the only way to go, right?

736
01:14:43,871 --> 01:14:46,231
That's how you connect to Albi using that.

737
01:14:46,231 --> 01:15:07,311
So when you do switch, Davidas, in the coming weeks to LNURL and Lightning addresses, there will be folks, for instance, using rss.com or any other hosting services whose text file specification will not support this extra field.

738
01:15:08,031 --> 01:15:09,691
How would it work in that scenario?

739
01:15:09,691 --> 01:15:18,611
that would be fine in this particular scenario because a company like rsus.com is a hosting

740
01:15:18,611 --> 01:15:26,271
company so if they want to they can still continue requiring people to use keys and

741
01:15:26,271 --> 01:15:33,711
enabled addresses and then it will be all on the apps to decide whether they want to support

742
01:15:33,711 --> 01:15:37,051
Both protocols, one or neither one of them.

743
01:15:37,651 --> 01:15:41,811
For example, Fountain supports both of these protocols at the moment.

744
01:15:42,431 --> 01:15:49,791
So whether you are using the Keysend wallet and you've put that in your RSS feed,

745
01:15:50,071 --> 01:15:56,891
or if you are using a lighting address, both of these options are going to work.

746
01:15:57,091 --> 01:16:02,731
So I do believe it's more relevant for the app side in this particular case.

747
01:16:02,731 --> 01:16:17,731
The incentive for the hosting companies to implement the lightning address implementation of the value block is that in that case, they would be able to onboard many more people into this ecosystem.

748
01:16:17,731 --> 01:16:25,091
ecosystem, because then you don't necessarily need to have an Albi node running somewhere,

749
01:16:25,231 --> 01:16:30,551
or even have a fountain wallet. If you have Cash App or any of the other Lightning wallets,

750
01:16:30,731 --> 01:16:34,491
you could use that as a way to receive money from your podcast.

751
01:16:36,971 --> 01:16:43,171
And what would RSS.com's, well, I guess you did outline their incentive, right? They can get more

752
01:16:43,171 --> 01:16:47,491
users because they're giving them more options. But would they do it though, in realistically

753
01:16:47,491 --> 01:16:55,891
speaking? I don't know. I think they, RSS.com and many of the other hosting companies that are in

754
01:16:55,891 --> 01:17:02,571
the podcasting T.O. space, I think they've had amazingly positive impact. And, you know,

755
01:17:02,691 --> 01:17:10,651
we have to acknowledge that someone like RSS.com is a large company with lots of considerations.

756
01:17:10,651 --> 01:17:18,531
so I do understand that they will move slower on some of these fronts but I'm very confident that

757
01:17:18,531 --> 01:17:25,551
over time they would adopt the standard because it is actually just easier if you've used RSS Blue

758
01:17:25,551 --> 01:17:34,271
you still had both you had two options of how to enter your value block you could use a lighting

759
01:17:34,271 --> 01:17:42,951
address, which is an email-like text field. Under the hood, we would fetch all the key sent details,

760
01:17:43,231 --> 01:17:51,071
or you could manually enter those. So for me as a developer at RSS Blue, it has been a complexity

761
01:17:51,071 --> 01:17:57,811
because I had to support both of these methods. But moving forward, if we agree to use lining

762
01:17:57,811 --> 01:18:05,991
addresses from the developer point of view and someone developing a hosting product it is actually

763
01:18:05,991 --> 01:18:15,651
much easier because not only do you have to ask customers to only enter one text value but also

764
01:18:15,651 --> 01:18:20,911
you don't have to do any additional fetching to fetch all of these details this lighting address

765
01:18:20,911 --> 01:18:22,951
would go directly in the RSS feed

766
01:18:22,951 --> 01:18:24,851
and all the listening apps

767
01:18:24,851 --> 01:18:28,371
would query the information themselves

768
01:18:28,371 --> 01:18:30,431
in terms of how to perform this payment.

769
01:18:33,911 --> 01:18:34,551
Yep.

770
01:18:35,771 --> 01:18:36,831
Makes sense.

771
01:18:37,391 --> 01:18:38,671
So, Oscar,

772
01:18:39,351 --> 01:18:42,331
tell us about this very special show

773
01:18:42,331 --> 01:18:47,111
that you are itching to get to.

774
01:18:47,731 --> 01:18:49,591
When do you need to leave for the show, by the way?

775
01:18:49,631 --> 01:18:50,291
It's about to begin.

776
01:18:50,291 --> 01:18:55,751
And so this is going to be only applicable to our live listeners on zap.stream.

777
01:18:56,091 --> 01:18:58,451
They still have time to catch the show.

778
01:18:58,571 --> 01:19:05,111
Unfortunately, our regular listeners, it will be past showtime by the time they get their hands on this.

779
01:19:05,711 --> 01:19:07,791
But yes, when do you need to leave?

780
01:19:07,911 --> 01:19:09,231
And what is the show about?

781
01:19:09,231 --> 01:19:19,151
yeah so i i've got a bit more time but um yeah the show starts in just over an hour at 8 30 p.m

782
01:19:19,151 --> 01:19:30,831
uk time um and really um this show is called into the value verse and this is the first kind of uh

783
01:19:30,831 --> 01:19:39,291
you know v4v gig powered by lightning in the uk uh we've got joe martin playing um obviously

784
01:19:39,291 --> 01:19:45,611
he's been such a pioneer uh in uh bringing you know open music to rss and everything

785
01:19:45,611 --> 01:19:54,331
that is happening nathan abbott and also longy so they're all playing um we are partnering with

786
01:19:54,331 --> 01:20:03,531
Azteco to give vouchers to all of the people that are coming to the show live and have purchased

787
01:20:03,531 --> 01:20:11,871
a ticket so that they can receive their first stats to their fountain wallet for free and they

788
01:20:11,871 --> 01:20:17,891
can support the artist directly that way so it's kind of a live onboarding exercise for new people

789
01:20:17,891 --> 01:20:22,851
to this space which I'm really excited about and that's why I'm heading down there in about

790
01:20:22,851 --> 01:20:27,991
half an hour to stand on the door and explain this to everybody that shows up. So that'll be

791
01:20:27,991 --> 01:20:33,591
very interesting. But yeah, of course, this is going to be streamed live in the Fountain app as

792
01:20:33,591 --> 01:20:40,991
well. It's going to be available via RSS and via NOSTA live stream. So if you are listening to this

793
01:20:40,991 --> 01:20:47,131
now and you have the Fountain app installed, just look out for that live stream, which should appear

794
01:20:47,131 --> 01:20:51,791
on the home tab around about 8, 8.30.

795
01:20:52,191 --> 01:20:53,771
So in about an hour, basically.

796
01:20:54,011 --> 01:20:55,731
And we'll definitely share out all the links

797
01:20:55,731 --> 01:20:57,411
on NOSTA once that happens.

798
01:20:57,951 --> 01:20:58,971
But yeah, we're really excited.

799
01:20:59,291 --> 01:21:01,091
We want to do more of these live events.

800
01:21:01,631 --> 01:21:03,711
I think they're great for so many reasons.

801
01:21:04,271 --> 01:21:06,971
Obviously, artists get their first experience

802
01:21:06,971 --> 01:21:09,471
of value for value and get paid more

803
01:21:09,471 --> 01:21:10,191
than they would have done

804
01:21:10,191 --> 01:21:11,871
from just the ticket sales on the door.

805
01:21:12,371 --> 01:21:15,271
But also you get people just that have come

806
01:21:15,271 --> 01:21:17,371
for the music and know nothing about Bitcoin.

807
01:21:18,211 --> 01:21:21,651
And it's really fun and great to see them

808
01:21:21,651 --> 01:21:23,651
have their first experience with Bitcoin,

809
01:21:23,951 --> 01:21:28,571
be using it to pay an artist over the Lightning Network.

810
01:21:28,871 --> 01:21:32,391
That's just such a great first touch point to Bitcoin.

811
01:21:32,591 --> 01:21:34,171
So yeah, we're really excited about this event.

812
01:21:35,091 --> 01:21:37,391
And please do check it out in Fountain

813
01:21:37,391 --> 01:21:40,711
and send some sats over if you can spare them.

814
01:21:40,791 --> 01:21:41,791
We'd really appreciate that.

815
01:21:41,791 --> 01:21:46,291
Why was two days ago the first time I heard about this event?

816
01:21:46,631 --> 01:21:51,331
Were you sure that it was going on through Fountain?

817
01:21:52,751 --> 01:21:54,031
That's a good question.

818
01:21:55,551 --> 01:22:11,923
I mean I have Culture Corner every week I be happy to talk about it every week yeah i mean to be honest we we have been uh scrambling around trying to get the uh a certain lightning address qr code

819
01:22:11,923 --> 01:22:19,003
scanning feature into the app uh you know it's a lot of work building not only a podcast app but

820
01:22:19,003 --> 01:22:25,383
also a wallet but we finally got the new version live yesterday and so yeah all of these beautiful

821
01:22:25,383 --> 01:22:31,503
flyers that we're giving out at the door will now work seamlessly with the fountain app the sats will

822
01:22:31,503 --> 01:22:39,403
be deposited and then also the qr codes on the wall will you know just auto open uh essentially

823
01:22:39,403 --> 01:22:44,683
like a boost modal so yeah there's a lot of work that goes into this but we learn at every event

824
01:22:44,683 --> 01:22:50,983
how to do this um more seamlessly like yeah you spoke about the austin event i think that was the

825
01:22:50,983 --> 01:22:58,803
first time we partnered with Azteco to use this voucher system and it really does work well there

826
01:22:58,803 --> 01:23:05,183
are a few issues in Austin but we've really ironed them out for this gig tonight and we hope that this

827
01:23:05,183 --> 01:23:14,063
way of doing things for live events will become a staple and any you know any venue around the

828
01:23:14,063 --> 01:23:21,283
world that wants to do this can you know order some vouchers kind of do this all in a self-serve

829
01:23:21,283 --> 01:23:28,483
way and just get people to download fountain or any other podcasting 2.0 app or nostal client and

830
01:23:28,483 --> 01:23:36,923
do the same thing i have to ask well i'll be on this on this point um monday uh this upcoming

831
01:23:36,923 --> 01:23:43,023
Monday, Sarah Jade, Ainsley, Abel James.

832
01:23:43,823 --> 01:23:46,323
Am I going to be on Fountain Livestream?

833
01:23:46,843 --> 01:23:50,183
Because I'm going to be on stage from 12 to 1.30.

834
01:23:53,243 --> 01:23:54,183
I think so, yeah.

835
01:23:54,203 --> 01:23:56,963
Are you guys going to be casting that, I guess?

836
01:23:57,323 --> 01:23:59,283
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are, we are.

837
01:24:00,283 --> 01:24:02,083
Okay, all right, that's confirmation.

838
01:24:02,083 --> 01:24:08,743
So, yeah, I mean, you're really starting to pump out value for value live streams.

839
01:24:09,063 --> 01:24:11,063
And these are ephemeral, correct?

840
01:24:11,243 --> 01:24:14,403
So it's not something you can go and download after the fact.

841
01:24:15,143 --> 01:24:22,483
Yeah, so these are just, you know, built right on top of the Nostra live stream spec.

842
01:24:22,603 --> 01:24:24,723
So the same spec that Zap.Stream uses.

843
01:24:24,723 --> 01:24:33,243
And so, you know, for this particular content type within the app, we're literally just streaming the HLS stream within Fountain.

844
01:24:33,623 --> 01:24:37,443
And then once it ends, it ends and you can't go back to it.

845
01:24:37,703 --> 01:24:43,923
But yeah, so it's cool that we're able to support this stuff so easily using the NOSTA spec.

846
01:24:47,443 --> 01:24:51,163
Oscar, you mentioned other podcasting 2.0 apps.

847
01:24:51,163 --> 01:24:54,103
I'm not aware of any other than Fountain.

848
01:24:54,723 --> 01:25:01,603
yeah i mean there's a bunch of different ones um you know all you know slightly different in

849
01:25:01,603 --> 01:25:08,283
terms of their feature set and their focus you know there's a couple kind of podcast podcast

850
01:25:08,283 --> 01:25:15,583
apps like podverse and podcast guru you know go and check those out um there's lnbeats which is a

851
01:25:15,583 --> 01:25:23,923
music focused um you know i guess app that lets you listen to all of the value for value music

852
01:25:23,923 --> 01:25:31,803
you know so there's a bunch of different ones and yeah I hope that there's more and more I think also

853
01:25:31,803 --> 01:25:41,743
the as I mentioned right at the start of the show you know podcast apps like Overcast which

854
01:25:41,743 --> 01:25:48,943
have been around for you know 10 plus years have millions of users although they're not really

855
01:25:48,943 --> 01:25:55,443
integrating any of the podcasting 2.0 features some of them are starting to like we saw pocket

856
01:25:55,443 --> 01:26:04,483
casts integrate the funding tag which is another of the podcasting 2.0 tags slightly different to

857
01:26:04,483 --> 01:26:10,943
the value block in that it doesn't directly use lightning although we've actually come up with a

858
01:26:10,943 --> 01:26:21,003
work around for that so yeah bit piece by piece bit by bit we can we can help the existing kind of

859
01:26:21,003 --> 01:26:26,703
more indie podcast app developers of which when you add up all of the users that they have

860
01:26:26,703 --> 01:26:34,483
between them because there's a long long tail of podcasting apps you know it runs into tens you

861
01:26:34,483 --> 01:26:40,583
know if not hundreds of millions of users so yeah our goal is to not just get everybody using

862
01:26:40,583 --> 01:26:48,743
fountain, but, you know, get people using independent podcast apps that want to support

863
01:26:48,743 --> 01:26:53,963
these new amazing features of OpenRSS, like the Lightning Network.

864
01:26:55,183 --> 01:27:01,683
Yeah, and in our analytics, Avi clearly hasn't been looking at them as far as the apps go,

865
01:27:01,783 --> 01:27:08,183
but we have 20 different apps that it's pulling from people listening from all kinds of stuff.

866
01:27:08,183 --> 01:27:09,643
but it's pretty wild.

867
01:27:09,763 --> 01:27:10,883
90% mobile, though.

868
01:27:10,923 --> 01:27:17,563
It seems like mobile is definitely the podcasting space's focus.

869
01:27:18,743 --> 01:27:22,783
Well, 90% mobile and 90% fountain, in our case, QW.

870
01:27:24,383 --> 01:27:25,783
We shame them.

871
01:27:26,323 --> 01:27:27,323
We shame them.

872
01:27:27,543 --> 01:27:32,543
If we don't see you in the comments or anything,

873
01:27:33,143 --> 01:27:36,743
I mean, really, fountain should be where our listeners are.

874
01:27:37,063 --> 01:27:37,803
For sure.

875
01:27:37,803 --> 01:27:40,763
So we're approaching the hour and a half, Mark.

876
01:27:40,983 --> 01:27:45,003
So we'll do the last couple of questions, last three questions rapid fire here, folks.

877
01:27:45,143 --> 01:27:47,623
So quick question, quick answer.

878
01:27:48,063 --> 01:27:51,663
And between the two of you, you decide who's going to answer this.

879
01:27:51,923 --> 01:27:53,623
So question number one, rapid fire.

880
01:27:54,263 --> 01:27:55,963
When Nostra Wallet connect?

881
01:27:58,303 --> 01:27:58,623
Soon.

882
01:28:00,623 --> 01:28:01,543
How soon?

883
01:28:01,543 --> 01:28:09,923
um definitely definitely this year definitely this year you can hold me to that

884
01:28:09,923 --> 01:28:16,003
so that would allow just so that folks understand it's a big one avi that is a big one that would

885
01:28:16,003 --> 01:28:22,543
allow me to for instance take my primal wallet or my coinos wallet uh lightning address right

886
01:28:22,543 --> 01:28:29,203
and just plug that in essentially into fountain yeah yeah and i think you know originally we had

887
01:28:29,203 --> 01:28:34,723
planned and sorry for jumping the gun on the kind of quickfire but I do want to explain why this has

888
01:28:34,723 --> 01:28:40,403
been slightly delayed we're massive believers in Nostra Wallet Connect it's amazing it's it makes

889
01:28:40,403 --> 01:28:44,183
total sense you don't want to have a wallet in each app you want to have one wallet and connect

890
01:28:44,183 --> 01:28:51,543
it to every app it's definitely the right technical solution our whole goal is to onboard new people

891
01:28:51,543 --> 01:28:58,083
that have never used bitcoin before and those that group of people is going to be intimidated

892
01:28:58,083 --> 01:28:59,383
by Nostra Wallet Connect.

893
01:29:00,083 --> 01:29:02,483
And that's why we want to focus our roadmap

894
01:29:02,483 --> 01:29:05,283
on that kind of cohort of users.

895
01:29:05,423 --> 01:29:07,103
And that's why it's been slightly delayed.

896
01:29:07,443 --> 01:29:09,183
But we definitely want to support it

897
01:29:09,183 --> 01:29:10,623
and we're big believers in it.

898
01:29:10,703 --> 01:29:13,103
And I think that will be the future way

899
01:29:13,103 --> 01:29:15,203
that you bring your wallet around

900
01:29:15,203 --> 01:29:16,223
to all these different apps.

901
01:29:17,003 --> 01:29:19,983
And will that Nostra Wallet Connect be bidirectional,

902
01:29:20,123 --> 01:29:22,743
meaning I can bring Primal or Coinos into Fountain,

903
01:29:22,903 --> 01:29:26,403
but can I also take the fountain.fm lightning address

904
01:29:26,403 --> 01:29:32,503
to another another yeah like darmas for instance which doesn't have at least today a native wallet

905
01:29:32,503 --> 01:29:40,483
it's a good question i my like gut feeling on that is probably not because it just doesn't

906
01:29:40,483 --> 01:29:47,063
make much sense to go the other direction like in the long term having your like podcast app as

907
01:29:47,063 --> 01:29:53,443
your main wallet you know separate to the the hosting dashboard but i'll give you one use case

908
01:29:53,443 --> 01:29:57,683
and we found ourselves in the US

909
01:29:57,683 --> 01:29:58,723
in this situation.

910
01:29:59,423 --> 01:30:00,883
For a brief period, I think, thankfully,

911
01:30:01,043 --> 01:30:02,043
the situation's improved.

912
01:30:02,543 --> 01:30:05,663
But for a brief period, the only place where,

913
01:30:06,343 --> 01:30:08,023
and especially New York State,

914
01:30:08,203 --> 01:30:10,903
where, I mean, New York State, Iran, and North Korea

915
01:30:10,903 --> 01:30:12,063
are the three places where,

916
01:30:12,223 --> 01:30:14,943
which are the most restrictions on Bitcoin and lightning.

917
01:30:16,203 --> 01:30:17,163
Randomly Florida.

918
01:30:18,603 --> 01:30:20,023
On occasion, Florida, too.

919
01:30:20,503 --> 01:30:23,283
But there was no other place

920
01:30:23,283 --> 01:30:31,003
other than fountain where i could have a lightning address uh so yeah there you go oscar there's a

921
01:30:31,003 --> 01:30:36,983
use case there if you're i i was living in an authoritarian regime in new york state and i did

922
01:30:36,983 --> 01:30:43,943
not have a lightning wallet i mean that just shows how early this is all this also is but you know

923
01:30:43,943 --> 01:30:52,183
if if fountain is uh the only company uh able to offer lightning addresses then there's something

924
01:30:52,183 --> 01:30:53,723
seriously wrong and I don't think

925
01:30:53,723 --> 01:30:55,283
just

926
01:30:55,283 --> 01:30:58,263
the small team we have is going to

927
01:30:58,263 --> 01:30:59,363
do anything about that.

928
01:31:00,383 --> 01:31:01,143
Okay, fair enough.

929
01:31:01,363 --> 01:31:04,343
I will say, Avi, the Nostra Wallet

930
01:31:04,343 --> 01:31:05,843
Connect is going to appease

931
01:31:05,843 --> 01:31:08,443
some of the Nostra and Lightning Puritans

932
01:31:08,443 --> 01:31:10,303
out there. So, you've got to appease

933
01:31:10,303 --> 01:31:12,243
them all. There is no appeasing Puritans,

934
01:31:12,343 --> 01:31:14,303
QW. I would

935
01:31:14,303 --> 01:31:15,923
let go of that dream.

936
01:31:18,143 --> 01:31:20,283
So, rapid fire

937
01:31:20,283 --> 01:31:20,763
number two.

938
01:31:20,763 --> 01:31:24,603
thoughts on open sourcing the stack

939
01:31:24,603 --> 01:31:36,123
um we definitely want to especially on the mobile app side um we just like need to figure out

940
01:31:36,123 --> 01:31:45,903
like a few things in terms of like which direction we want to go um with the app and and how that's

941
01:31:45,903 --> 01:31:53,203
all been a work so yeah nothing to share yet but like i do want to eventually see that happen

942
01:31:53,203 --> 01:32:02,463
in the interim oscar is there an opportunity to at least expose some apis and i'll give you a

943
01:32:02,463 --> 01:32:09,503
very specific example i mean we're in like llm boom days and we have been in the last for the

944
01:32:09,503 --> 01:32:14,823
last six months maybe even one year at this point and llms unfortunately cannot listen to podcasts

945
01:32:14,823 --> 01:32:17,183
and they can't watch videos,

946
01:32:17,463 --> 01:32:21,743
but they can read, quote-unquote, read transcripts.

947
01:32:22,823 --> 01:32:28,423
I think it would be really cool if there was an API call, right,

948
01:32:28,483 --> 01:32:33,603
and it could be paid, right, pay per token or whatever it is,

949
01:32:33,663 --> 01:32:35,243
pay by a certain amount.

950
01:32:36,303 --> 01:32:41,103
But pull either the transcripts or the AI summaries of podcasts

951
01:32:41,103 --> 01:32:44,243
and populate the Internet with that text

952
01:32:44,243 --> 01:32:47,723
so that LLMs have more discoverability,

953
01:32:47,883 --> 01:32:49,303
they can build out their knowledge base,

954
01:32:49,623 --> 01:32:50,843
or even personal LLMs.

955
01:32:50,843 --> 01:32:53,543
If you don't want, you know, privacy is an issue.

956
01:32:54,263 --> 01:32:58,383
As a podcaster, I would want a private repository

957
01:32:58,383 --> 01:33:01,763
where I could have an LLM run through every single podcast,

958
01:33:01,903 --> 01:33:02,863
look for certain patterns,

959
01:33:03,363 --> 01:33:05,103
and, you know, constantly work on ways

960
01:33:05,103 --> 01:33:07,183
in which I could tweak what I'm doing.

961
01:33:07,543 --> 01:33:09,483
And right now, it's a very manual process

962
01:33:09,483 --> 01:33:10,383
of having to go to Fountain

963
01:33:10,383 --> 01:33:13,363
on an individual episode-by-episode basis.

964
01:33:13,363 --> 01:33:16,723
getting the transcript, downloading it one by one,

965
01:33:16,763 --> 01:33:19,043
and then doing that, which obviously is not going to scale.

966
01:33:20,743 --> 01:33:24,083
Yeah, this is something that we have a lot of plans.

967
01:33:24,243 --> 01:33:27,983
Obviously, when Fountain 1.2 was released about a month ago,

968
01:33:28,103 --> 01:33:31,963
one of the new features was these AI-generated summaries

969
01:33:31,963 --> 01:33:33,043
of any episode.

970
01:33:33,043 --> 01:33:37,043
You can pay with SATs or you can get unlimited summaries

971
01:33:37,623 --> 01:33:39,183
with the premium subscription.

972
01:33:39,943 --> 01:33:41,823
There's a lot more we want to do here.

973
01:33:41,823 --> 01:33:44,843
there's so much opportunity and

974
01:33:44,895 --> 01:33:50,855
And I also want to have that in a private sense as well.

975
01:33:51,895 --> 01:33:57,055
We don't do any play tracking or any of that in the app.

976
01:33:57,055 --> 01:34:03,595
And I definitely see the benefit of having a local first cache within the app

977
01:34:03,595 --> 01:34:08,635
that you can store all of this data and analyze it locally on your device

978
01:34:08,635 --> 01:34:09,915
without an internet connection.

979
01:34:10,495 --> 01:34:14,175
There's a lot more coming on that side of things within the Fountain app.

980
01:34:14,175 --> 01:34:19,995
and it's great to see number one the cost of the transcripts go down when we first started

981
01:34:19,995 --> 01:34:27,935
transcripts were costing us one dollar per hour of audio transcribed they now are costing us about

982
01:34:27,935 --> 01:34:35,015
five cents per hour transcribed so the cost is dropping the speed of processing the transcript

983
01:34:35,015 --> 01:34:43,115
is dropping as well and the quality of the ai models is going up so yeah there's lots more we

984
01:34:43,115 --> 01:34:50,335
want to do on that. Can you tell us if you use Whisper for transcription or if not Whisper,

985
01:34:50,435 --> 01:34:54,415
what else? And the AI summaries, which model you use? Or is that a secret?

986
01:34:55,215 --> 01:35:00,495
Yeah, happy to share that. Yeah. I mean, one thing is we switch around providers all of the time

987
01:35:00,495 --> 01:35:06,255
because the prices are constantly changing. And also for us, speed is actually more important than

988
01:35:06,255 --> 01:35:14,495
accuracy because when you are in the fountain app and you want to request a transcript like well we

989
01:35:14,495 --> 01:35:28,557
felt that it better to have that transcript be generated in half the time but maybe have a slightly lower word error rate So we constantly switching providers

990
01:35:28,737 --> 01:35:32,797
At the moment, we're using a service called Grok for our transcripts,

991
01:35:32,797 --> 01:35:36,437
and we're using the Gemini model for our summaries.

992
01:35:36,817 --> 01:35:37,157
Got it.

993
01:35:37,777 --> 01:35:39,477
That's G-R-O-Q, correct?

994
01:35:40,597 --> 01:35:40,777
Yeah.

995
01:35:40,777 --> 01:35:44,637
Not the XAI Grok, yeah.

996
01:35:45,297 --> 01:35:45,417
Yeah.

997
01:35:47,677 --> 01:35:48,237
Great.

998
01:35:48,337 --> 01:35:58,317
qw do you have anything else for our guests not at this time avi i love when you you talk about

999
01:35:58,317 --> 01:36:07,337
the ai and all the new technology kids these days i can just feel the energy the excitement right

1000
01:36:07,337 --> 01:36:15,677
llm i'm like llm like people know what that is a large language model uh yeah so you know you get

1001
01:36:15,677 --> 01:36:20,617
a little techie sometimes, Avi, but I can tell you're just excited about it. So I appreciate you.

1002
01:36:20,617 --> 01:36:27,577
Limited liability man, as some would say. Oscar, Davidas, any closing thoughts?

1003
01:36:33,317 --> 01:36:40,537
Yeah, I would just say, you know, thank you to everybody that is supporting Fountain via the

1004
01:36:40,537 --> 01:36:41,737
premium subscription.

1005
01:36:41,737 --> 01:36:45,237
QW, you mentioned it earlier in the show.

1006
01:36:45,237 --> 01:36:47,817
We really, really obviously appreciate it,

1007
01:36:47,817 --> 01:36:51,997
but also it helps sustain us as a business

1008
01:36:51,997 --> 01:36:54,217
and continue to work on these things.

1009
01:36:54,217 --> 01:36:56,657
So if you like what we're doing,

1010
01:36:56,657 --> 01:37:09,580
or if you slightly like what we doing and slightly don think we doing the right thing support us with the premium subscription in the app and just reach out to us because we you know listen to every piece of feedback that we receive

1011
01:37:09,580 --> 01:37:16,880
And we want to, our goal is to bring the Lightning Network and NOSTA to mainstream podcasting.

1012
01:37:17,580 --> 01:37:22,680
You know, we're very, still very early in our journey on doing that, but I think we have a really good chance.

1013
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:30,140
And I think particularly with NOSTA, there's no better industry than podcasting to adopt NOSTA first.

1014
01:37:30,380 --> 01:37:31,340
So help us do it.

1015
01:37:31,700 --> 01:37:33,120
Support us with the premium subscription.

1016
01:37:33,500 --> 01:37:38,420
And if you know any podcasters, tell them about Fountain.

1017
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:48,660
Yeah, I just want to say that I'm incredibly positive and hopeful about the future of podcasts.

1018
01:37:48,660 --> 01:37:51,740
because what we are experiencing right now

1019
01:37:51,740 --> 01:37:56,600
is that it is becoming more and more open in every way.

1020
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:02,280
You know, podcasts started as these simple RSS feeds

1021
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:03,660
and they still remain that.

1022
01:38:04,020 --> 01:38:08,820
But now we have this ability to pay the creators in an open way,

1023
01:38:10,100 --> 01:38:13,580
to interact with the creators in an open way.

1024
01:38:13,580 --> 01:38:28,940
And now with Fountain, we hope to bring these new monetization models and develop them in an open way so that every hosting company and every app can participate in this.

1025
01:38:29,540 --> 01:38:47,602
Well we are incredibly excited to be part of this journey with you QW it got to be said Plap Chain Radio is the first podcast to be part of this premium offering

1026
01:38:48,082 --> 01:38:48,922
subscription offering.

1027
01:38:49,062 --> 01:38:50,522
Avi, Avi, they tell that to everybody.

1028
01:38:52,222 --> 01:38:54,342
No, guys, you are the first.

1029
01:38:54,342 --> 01:38:54,662
You are the first, man.

1030
01:38:54,762 --> 01:38:56,382
You are the first, you are the first.

1031
01:38:56,742 --> 01:38:59,662
And nothing can ever change that.

1032
01:39:01,202 --> 01:39:02,082
That's it.

1033
01:39:02,082 --> 01:39:06,482
And I, Davides, I'm so happy that you joined the team there.

1034
01:39:06,622 --> 01:39:07,622
You got a good one there.

1035
01:39:08,142 --> 01:39:09,782
You've been just instrumental.

1036
01:39:10,022 --> 01:39:10,882
So, so helpful.

1037
01:39:11,282 --> 01:39:18,362
Such a beautiful person, human in the value for value podcasting 2.0 space.

1038
01:39:19,622 --> 01:39:21,502
You just, hard work pays off.

1039
01:39:21,582 --> 01:39:22,382
So I appreciate you.

1040
01:39:23,282 --> 01:39:24,302
Thank you so much.

1041
01:39:24,482 --> 01:39:25,162
I appreciate it.

1042
01:39:29,222 --> 01:39:30,822
Well, anything else, Javi?

1043
01:39:30,822 --> 01:39:32,262
or should we send them off?

1044
01:39:33,442 --> 01:39:38,102
I think we're at the end, QW.

1045
01:39:39,222 --> 01:39:40,002
All right.

1046
01:39:40,082 --> 01:39:41,222
My son just came in.

1047
01:39:41,742 --> 01:39:43,762
He unlocked the door and barged in.

1048
01:39:43,942 --> 01:39:48,042
So thank you, everyone, for tuning in on Zap.Stream

1049
01:39:48,042 --> 01:39:50,562
or any of the Nostra clients that stream.

1050
01:39:51,762 --> 01:39:53,362
We really appreciate you.

1051
01:39:53,462 --> 01:39:57,182
Anybody listening, I think this show goes to show.

1052
01:39:57,642 --> 01:39:58,962
Please listen on Fountain.

1053
01:39:58,962 --> 01:40:05,982
support the value for value mission, support podcasting 2.0, support Noster, Bitcoin, everything.

1054
01:40:07,082 --> 01:40:09,662
Let's change the world together. We'll see you next week.

1055
01:40:11,362 --> 01:40:12,002
Goodbye.