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In a world where fiat trembles and the mempool never sleeps, one signal cuts through the noise.

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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, Layer 2, your premium passage to the hidden rifts of Bitcoin

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culture. Buckle up and feel the voltage.

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Welcome, gentle plebs, to Layer 2 Pleb Chain Radio. I'm your host, QW. In this episode,

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I sat down with Sam Meads. When I say sat, I literally sat across from him. We did this

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interview in person. You can tell we're friends. You can tell we got some jokes, but we had a lot

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of fun. And I want to take a moment to thank all the subscribers, anyone listening right now,

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that's you. We do have something in return, a little value for value. There are 12

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PubChain Radio t-shirts left. We'd like you to reach out to either me or Sam,

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and we'd like to get you those.

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So first come, first serve.

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We appreciate you.

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We love you and enjoy the show.

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All right.

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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio premium content.

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This is our, you know, my guest today.

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You pay well on this shit?

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Yeah.

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Come on, man.

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We'll see how this goes.

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But, you know, depending upon how you perform, Sam, it might just be free.

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Do you need a koozie?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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I'm a koozie guy.

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Anybody that doesn't know, this is my very first time doing a live podcast IRL.

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I happen to know this gentleman who lives locally.

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His name, and I think we can say his full name, right?

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Are you fully doxxed?

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Yeah.

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I'm doxxed.

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Sam Means.

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Doxxed to oblivion.

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Sam Means, who he runs a few failing companies, but that's the important part of today.

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At least one successful one in many failed companies.

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So I guess my first question to you, Sam, is why eggs?

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Eggs are an excellent source of protein.

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They're delicious.

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They're, you know, I don't know, they're great.

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Now, when you say that.

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They're so universal.

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I like a burrito.

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I'm a burrito guy.

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So I like an egg and cheese burrito.

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I like,

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like a fried egg sandwich.

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I like just scrambled eggs with a little cheese.

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So you're not,

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you're not prejudiced how the eggs are prepared.

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I don't,

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I will take any egg.

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I'll take egg anyway.

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Soft.

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I'll do it all.

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I'm not,

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I mean,

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I don't,

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I would say poach wouldn't be my first choice,

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but I would never,

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I have a rule that I don't ever deny an egg and I never leave an egg behind.

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So,

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yeah.

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I mean,

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basically,

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uh, I, I would say I like a scramble, but start with butter, then stir it the whole time. Uh,

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scrambled and add cheese. Yeah. So you don't pre-scramble, you scramble in the pot, in the

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pan. Exactly. That's what I do. So it's the killer. And it creates a fluffy egg. I'll call it. Yeah.

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And my son and I, uh, do it every Saturday morning. So it's an important regimen to have.

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Do you ever like go crazy and throw a little cottage cheese in there or something like that?

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Dude, I, I, yeah, it gets weird.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's not really weird, but it makes a lot of sense.

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It's weird to some people.

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A lot of people are, are, are not cool with cottage cheese.

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Yeah.

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Well, cottage cheese.

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I'm glad this premium content's off to such a great stuff.

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Well, that's the important part.

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We're really talking about the good, the good shit here.

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I mean,

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the kind of stuff people are going to pay five bucks.

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Olives and cottage cheese.

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You can put fruit in cottage cheese.

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You can put, you know, I've never done olives in my eggs.

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That would, um, that's interesting.

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Black olives.

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I'm more of a Spanish olive guy.

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Okay.

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Or even in the Mediterranean or Greek olives.

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I don't like the Greek olives, but I might try black olives.

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But if you do feta with it, then all of a sudden it makes sense.

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Okay.

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So, you know, olive has a complement.

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You have to kind of balance that.

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Dig feta.

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How does feta melt in a scrambled egg?

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Does it melt well?

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You add it at the very end.

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Okay.

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So it's more of a garnish.

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Yeah, but you roll it over.

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So, you know, it's kind of like a, it would just be more like a sandwich.

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You checking the Bitcoin price on that phone?

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No, I get phone calls.

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The fiat minds are crying.

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But yeah, so that's kind of what I wanted to, so that's the end of our show today.

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Thank you very much.

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It's all about eggs.

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But the second, maybe more important thing is, Sam, why music?

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Why music?

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Why music?

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I mean why not Doesn everybody loves music Have you ever met someone who doesn love music There people that like music and then there people that their identity

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Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I think it ebbs and flows as people grow up and especially in our youth.

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It's something that a lot of people hold dear, a lot of memories.

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But as you grow up, as you become a responsible adult.

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turning on right here it's all right there's gonna be some trains going by there's gonna be

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trains there's i would i you know we could turn off the air conditioner but it's it's like 150

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degrees outside i would not suggest it so you're just gonna have to deal with that premium noise

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so going back to that so obviously growing up you know i remember my first tape beach boys uh okay

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all right very topical right now r.i.p r.i.p brian right right um that was that was one of them

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Do you remember which one it was?

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It was the greatest hits thing or something.

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I get around,

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around,

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around,

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around.

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I get around.

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So,

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but then I remember my first CDs.

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I remember my first concerts.

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I remember Celine Dion.

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That was your first in a joint and,

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and,

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and,

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and driving around before and after school.

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I remember how music touched me so much,

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but as I become a responsible adult,

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as I,

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as I kind of get drowned out,

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I'll get there.

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Fiat minds.

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But this is very common.

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There are, however, other people who music just is always absorbed in their life.

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And I think you're one of those.

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And I'm curious how, maybe because you have a very, your business is kind of surrounded by music.

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Yeah.

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But you, I mean, this whole room is.

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We are in a music studio at the moment.

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We are literally, I went to go grab a drink and there's instruments from 1970, 80, 90.

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I don't even know.

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What's that orange keyboard over there?

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That is a Wurlitzer 200A.

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And that's my guy right there.

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Okay.

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It's an electric piano.

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So why music, I suppose?

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How did it stick?

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Short of, obviously, you were in a band.

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Well, I mean, it started when I was like 10.

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similar thing you know tapes uh beetle i had some beach boys tapes too but like road trips with my

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dad um getting some beetles tapes just listening to them a lot and then um looking over in the

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corner and singing a guitar there and just going like how does that work and then you know asking

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my dad how do you is there like a book that will teach you how to play these beetle songs and then

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he's like yeah let's go to the mall we went to the mall we got a book that used to be over there

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I just brought it home for my daughter to try to learn bass with it,

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but I still have it from when I was like 10.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know.

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It's easy.

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It's like,

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it's an easy way into create,

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like everyone,

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most people love music.

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Even if they just like music,

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they still like,

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I mean,

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it's,

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it's an easy gateway into creativity.

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I think some people forget they like music.

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It's just so accessible.

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It's accessible to listen to and enjoy.

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It's,

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it emotes,

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you know,

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it like brings out feelings in people.

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Mm-hmm.

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um, it's an easy thing to learn how to do when you're young, if you're interested in it. I mean,

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most people, you know, usually have like piano is typically the one, like your parents force you to

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play piano if you're like six or seven or something. Cause it's, it, um, it, it's good

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for your brain. It's good for learning. It's good for multitasking. It's good for being able to do,

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um, you know, I don't know. It's just, I learned how to play guitar when I was 10.

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So, and I just taught myself how to play in it.

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And then I started realizing I could take these chords and move them around and write my own songs and stuff.

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And it just was really fun.

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So I just started doing that.

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And then I think I had like a fake Beatles cover band with my next door neighbor when I was, by the time I was like 12.

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And then once I got into junior high and high school and stuff, then it was just like real bands.

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Let's start, let's start real bands.

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Once the chicks start digging it, you know.

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once I got my other friends to get instruments,

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like,

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you know,

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figuring out who's going to play drums,

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who's going to play bass.

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Once you,

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once you find a couple other people willing to,

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uh,

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to mess around and do that kind of stuff,

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then I don't know.

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It just goes from there.

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And then,

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you know,

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I don't know.

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I have,

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I've always been the responsible one in the bands and there's things that come

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with that,

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like merch and booking shows and doing all those sorts of things.

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And so,

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yeah,

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I was that guy for years and that just turned into,

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starting businesses to support music and just all goes hand in hand to me you find a lot of bands

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that are successful they have one madman that yeah there's almost almost always there is a

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a person in the band that's like the me of the band that is you know dealing with the day-to-day

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stuff or is designing the merch in the posters and all that kind of you know kind of thing so

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I did a lot of that stuff and I did a lot of the managerial type duties and those sorts of things So so moving along in your life um beyond the bands what radicalized you what radical radicalized me um

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where which which which which why are you talking about exactly why bitcoin why lightning store why

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wave lake um what what kind of was your trigger i suppose uh and you know what it maybe it's just

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why did it relate so much with you?

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You know, I think a lot of people

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either get it from a technical aspect

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or they get it from an emotional

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or just something happened

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where they're like, screw it.

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But like for me, I've been a libertarian a long time.

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I've never trusted the system.

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I've kind of always wanted to,

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I saw that sly roundabout way

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and I kind of grasped onto that.

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I was kind of built to appreciate.

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I was a Bitcoiner before I owned Bitcoin, I would say.

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but what was there anything that made you say i want to start building things that are different

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yeah also a little backstory i guess because that's it's important to how i got here as i

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started i had access to the internet pretty early um and so i started similarly to realizing that

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you can just grab a guitar and play music i also realized that you could look at the code

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on these on websites and um take blocks of it and make your own thing so i started figuring out how to

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make websites um early days html websites and i started making websites for um bands

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like music sites and so that was probably like the earliest entry point into that part of it

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um and then i would always make the websites for my bands as well and all that so you were doing

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it for other bands i was doing it for other bands the the first so you were you notable band i ever

251
00:12:21,306 --> 00:12:28,726
did it for was weezer wow well it was actually it was for weezer's fan club to be very specific

252
00:12:28,726 --> 00:12:35,826
um i made a website for their official fan club because they didn't have one and uh they had two

253
00:12:35,826 --> 00:12:40,586
these two girls michael and carly that were running it and uh i just kind of communicated

254
00:12:40,586 --> 00:12:46,906
with them they would give me content for it and i would upload it and yeah it was really cool um

255
00:12:46,906 --> 00:12:53,466
so you you learned to cater to bands um yeah i just learned that aspect of it like being in a band but

256
00:12:54,506 --> 00:13:00,106
you i mean building a website uh building websites yeah i mean that was like being code or very um

257
00:13:01,066 --> 00:13:07,386
rudimentary you know version of being a coder when you're like i guess at that point i was probably

258
00:13:07,386 --> 00:13:15,226
15. Um, but you know, I continued sort of having to do that sort of thing. And then,

259
00:13:15,226 --> 00:13:23,826
uh, fast forward, you know, maybe like, I don't know, however many more years later, um,

260
00:13:25,586 --> 00:13:32,486
I made, I guess 13, 13 years later to be exact. I made a, uh, I started this business,

261
00:13:32,486 --> 00:13:38,366
Hello Merch that that's where you are right now. And that was an e-commerce site that sold,

262
00:13:38,786 --> 00:13:45,546
it's kind of like a mall for bands. So you could sell, buy merchandise from a number of bands on

263
00:13:45,546 --> 00:13:54,606
this, from the single source. And I built that out. And about six years into that, I had a friend

264
00:13:54,606 --> 00:13:57,906
who had been talking to me about, here comes the train. I had a friend who had been talking to me

265
00:13:57,906 --> 00:14:06,426
about Bitcoin and this guy, Mike Germ, as a lot of people know him. He does a thing called Lightning

266
00:14:06,426 --> 00:14:12,346
Ventures and he just started a project called Thunder Funder. He's in the investment world of

267
00:14:12,346 --> 00:14:23,226
Bitcoin, but we've been friends since middle school. And he had been telling me about Bitcoin

268
00:14:23,226 --> 00:14:27,326
and I've been hearing about Bitcoin through Max Kaiser,

269
00:14:27,326 --> 00:14:35,626
who I had been listening to because of like post 2008 gold stuff,

270
00:14:35,806 --> 00:14:36,126
you know,

271
00:14:36,126 --> 00:14:41,166
like started realizing that money was weird and looking into how money worked,

272
00:14:41,366 --> 00:14:44,926
getting kind of weirded out by it and seeing how it could be manipulated.

273
00:14:44,926 --> 00:14:50,826
So I started looking at gold and listening to these sort of like weirdo,

274
00:14:51,006 --> 00:14:52,086
you know,

275
00:14:52,086 --> 00:14:57,586
podcasts and I guess YouTube shows and stuff, whatever they were at the time. I don't even

276
00:14:57,586 --> 00:15:04,186
remember. Um, you know, at that point, Bitcoin was probably like a dollar when I first heard

277
00:15:04,186 --> 00:15:11,106
about it, but, you know, skip ahead a few years, I was running a, this e-commerce site and, uh,

278
00:15:11,106 --> 00:15:18,926
bit, bit pay came along as the first plugin that would work with the e-commerce platform I was

279
00:15:18,926 --> 00:15:24,386
using. So I just turned it on and that was just sort of this thing. Like, I don't, I don't know

280
00:15:24,386 --> 00:15:31,106
what this is. I've, I've had some opportunities to try to buy it and it seemed sketchy. It just

281
00:15:31,106 --> 00:15:36,066
seemed really sketchy. This was like 2014. So it just seemed really weird still, but, um,

282
00:15:36,146 --> 00:15:50,709
I be weird if you bought it and held you know it too weird I mean I mean even like even I mean even just to buy worth it seems sketchy to put your credit card into this like weird website you know And like it just didn seem um didn make a lot of sense

283
00:15:50,769 --> 00:16:01,689
I didn't have a lot of context around it at that time, but I figured if somebody wanted to, to just give it to me, you know, in exchange for a shirt or something, then I would be okay with that.

284
00:16:02,469 --> 00:16:06,729
In 2012, I almost worked for a gold company.

285
00:16:06,849 --> 00:16:07,169
Really?

286
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:09,049
I moved, I moved to Florida.

287
00:16:09,049 --> 00:16:15,609
the economy hit and yeah I was like you know fuck it let's just let's go babe uh if we can't afford

288
00:16:15,609 --> 00:16:23,029
a vacation let's go live one so we moved to South Florida and we sold everything uh I had a 61 inch

289
00:16:23,029 --> 00:16:30,669
TV DLP in my back seat I had my dog in the middle of us I was towing my wife's car and I had a

290
00:16:30,669 --> 00:16:36,829
mattress that ended up getting uh completely moldy driving through Louisiana nice so when we showed

291
00:16:36,829 --> 00:16:44,049
up it looked like I was a hardcore hodler yeah I had two folding chairs a 61 inch DLP in an empty

292
00:16:44,049 --> 00:16:51,089
apartment we ended up getting a blow-up mattress and we said all right so I started looking at

293
00:16:51,089 --> 00:16:57,369
different companies to work for and I went to this one it was a gold sales like a it was like

294
00:16:57,369 --> 00:17:04,429
a cold call for gold and they're like read this book I read it in a day I resonated with gold

295
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:06,909
like you were saying, but

296
00:17:06,909 --> 00:17:08,989
I looked around

297
00:17:08,989 --> 00:17:10,429
and I'm like, no, this isn't the culture.

298
00:17:10,969 --> 00:17:12,969
No, the gold culture

299
00:17:12,969 --> 00:17:13,909
is totally weird.

300
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:16,489
When people would find out that I

301
00:17:16,489 --> 00:17:19,429
I hadn't

302
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:21,289
learned about Bitcoin really

303
00:17:21,289 --> 00:17:22,829
so if I was talking about money

304
00:17:22,829 --> 00:17:25,089
I was usually talking about how

305
00:17:25,089 --> 00:17:26,729
it's such a bad store of value.

306
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:28,709
I mean, you love gold because

307
00:17:28,709 --> 00:17:30,769
it kind of makes sense because at least it's been around

308
00:17:30,769 --> 00:17:31,989
forever.

309
00:17:31,989 --> 00:17:38,089
ever yeah and it's this thing that i don't know it seems like it's i don't know that this is the

310
00:17:38,089 --> 00:17:43,169
thing but it seems better than whatever is going on right now right um yeah i've since gotten

311
00:17:43,169 --> 00:17:48,248
completely uninterested in gold obviously but but it was a good entry point you know to like

312
00:17:48,248 --> 00:17:53,149
thinking outside the box in a very extreme way when people are calling you a pirate for like

313
00:17:53,149 --> 00:18:00,429
you know buying gold and silver and i sure whatever like it's dorky it's super dorky

314
00:18:00,429 --> 00:18:04,689
you know, but, um, I don't know. It was like, I,

315
00:18:04,769 --> 00:18:08,929
I think of it as a good transition from what was going on. I mean,

316
00:18:08,929 --> 00:18:11,529
that was like, it took me a minute, but you know,

317
00:18:11,529 --> 00:18:18,529
from like 2008 to 2014 to really start thinking about the,

318
00:18:19,469 --> 00:18:22,929
how, you know, messed up. Can you,

319
00:18:22,989 --> 00:18:26,409
can you cuss on your premium content? Just kidding. Yeah. Um, uh,

320
00:18:26,409 --> 00:18:28,729
thinking about how fucked up money was.

321
00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:30,669
And you know,

322
00:18:30,669 --> 00:18:31,969
like I had a house that I,

323
00:18:32,109 --> 00:18:33,949
I bought a house when I got signed.

324
00:18:34,429 --> 00:18:35,529
It's like the only thing I knew,

325
00:18:35,729 --> 00:18:38,169
I got signed to a major label and I got some money and I'm like,

326
00:18:38,229 --> 00:18:38,709
I don't know what to do.

327
00:18:38,748 --> 00:18:39,449
I'll just buy a house,

328
00:18:39,489 --> 00:18:39,829
I guess.

329
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:41,229
And then I like lost it,

330
00:18:41,269 --> 00:18:41,589
you know,

331
00:18:41,589 --> 00:18:42,209
like of course,

332
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:48,229
cause it was a 2008 house like where I just like walked in and like,

333
00:18:48,229 --> 00:18:49,829
someone just gave me a house for nothing.

334
00:18:49,929 --> 00:18:50,069
They're like,

335
00:18:50,069 --> 00:18:50,809
how much money do you make?

336
00:18:50,849 --> 00:18:51,149
I was like,

337
00:18:51,169 --> 00:18:51,449
nothing.

338
00:18:51,549 --> 00:18:51,769
They're like,

339
00:18:51,789 --> 00:18:51,929
cool.

340
00:18:51,969 --> 00:18:52,609
Here's a house.

341
00:18:52,849 --> 00:18:54,248
I was fresh out of college,

342
00:18:54,389 --> 00:18:55,089
bought a house.

343
00:18:55,429 --> 00:18:55,629
Yeah.

344
00:18:55,629 --> 00:18:56,748
they're just giving loans to everybody.

345
00:18:56,748 --> 00:18:58,689
Like I literally called my friends and I was like,

346
00:18:58,689 --> 00:18:59,809
I'm not joking.

347
00:19:00,169 --> 00:19:02,008
This place just gave me a house.

348
00:19:02,008 --> 00:19:04,409
Like everybody needs to come into this office right now and get a house.

349
00:19:04,429 --> 00:19:05,309
And all my friends did.

350
00:19:05,349 --> 00:19:06,549
And we all lived in the neighborhood.

351
00:19:06,589 --> 00:19:07,489
It's the Oprah meme.

352
00:19:07,689 --> 00:19:07,889
Yeah.

353
00:19:07,889 --> 00:19:08,369
It was amazing.

354
00:19:08,508 --> 00:19:09,649
Everybody gets a house.

355
00:19:09,809 --> 00:19:10,809
Everybody gets a house.

356
00:19:10,849 --> 00:19:12,049
But then when you realize like,

357
00:19:12,189 --> 00:19:13,409
Oh wait,

358
00:19:13,429 --> 00:19:14,248
what just happened?

359
00:19:15,008 --> 00:19:16,089
Where'd my house go?

360
00:19:16,889 --> 00:19:17,248
Um,

361
00:19:17,409 --> 00:19:19,029
you start looking at it and then it's like,

362
00:19:19,069 --> 00:19:19,289
wait,

363
00:19:19,489 --> 00:19:21,989
how did all these promises that the bank was like,

364
00:19:22,049 --> 00:19:23,309
don't worry,

365
00:19:23,309 --> 00:19:24,289
you can refinance.

366
00:19:24,289 --> 00:19:26,869
And, you know, when the time comes, it'll be easy, you know?

367
00:19:26,969 --> 00:19:27,229
Yeah.

368
00:19:27,769 --> 00:19:28,829
And then of course you can't.

369
00:19:28,909 --> 00:19:32,649
Mine actually told me I need to be delinquent three months.

370
00:19:32,748 --> 00:19:33,489
Oh, they told me that.

371
00:19:33,609 --> 00:19:36,229
I refused to do a foreclosure.

372
00:19:36,508 --> 00:19:36,769
So I did that.

373
00:19:36,969 --> 00:19:40,209
I did, well, I did delinquent three months so I can refinance.

374
00:19:40,289 --> 00:19:40,569
Yeah.

375
00:19:40,849 --> 00:19:42,409
And then they just said no.

376
00:19:42,469 --> 00:19:44,949
Yeah, I kind of knew that wasn't going to happen.

377
00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:45,809
They told me that too.

378
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:48,089
And then they said, you know, it's best just to foreclose.

379
00:19:48,129 --> 00:19:50,069
And I'm like, well, I'm not going to do that.

380
00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:52,409
So what's my best case scenario?

381
00:19:52,409 --> 00:19:56,589
I rented it out to a buddy until they, they basically knocked on the door.

382
00:19:56,829 --> 00:19:57,189
Yeah.

383
00:19:57,649 --> 00:20:00,149
I did a, I ended up doing a short sale, which was fine.

384
00:20:00,149 --> 00:20:03,049
And it was, you know, on the old credit report, which is worthless anyway,

385
00:20:03,049 --> 00:20:04,189
um, for a while.

386
00:20:04,189 --> 00:20:05,709
And that was a long time ago.

387
00:20:05,709 --> 00:20:06,409
So who cares?

388
00:20:06,508 --> 00:20:09,829
But, but I learned a valuable lesson at that moment.

389
00:20:09,829 --> 00:20:12,149
You know, do you have your credit report with you?

390
00:20:12,629 --> 00:20:14,169
Yeah, I can pull, I can pull it up.

391
00:20:14,169 --> 00:20:16,189
Cause I mean, I do look at it every night before I go to sleep.

392
00:20:16,748 --> 00:20:17,149
Yeah.

393
00:20:17,369 --> 00:20:17,689
Yeah.

394
00:20:17,869 --> 00:20:19,389
You got so I know I can sleep easy.

395
00:20:19,709 --> 00:20:20,069
Yeah.

396
00:20:20,109 --> 00:20:21,729
Check your app, uh, subscribe.

397
00:20:22,029 --> 00:20:22,248
Yeah.

398
00:20:22,409 --> 00:20:23,269
Full monitoring.

399
00:20:24,329 --> 00:20:24,769
Yeah.

400
00:20:24,969 --> 00:20:25,748
Yeah, that's pretty cool.

401
00:20:25,988 --> 00:20:28,209
You can monitor all your afterpay purchases.

402
00:20:28,609 --> 00:20:28,809
Yeah.

403
00:20:29,149 --> 00:20:31,409
Yeah, I'm really heavily into debt.

404
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:34,189
Actually, you're probably going to have to leave pretty soon

405
00:20:34,189 --> 00:20:37,369
because usually at about 5 o'clock, the guys with baseball bats show up.

406
00:20:37,409 --> 00:20:38,329
I have to get out before then.

407
00:20:39,469 --> 00:20:40,369
All right.

408
00:20:40,429 --> 00:20:42,929
That wraps up our Layer 2 preview.

409
00:20:43,389 --> 00:20:46,669
If you're interested in hearing more or the full episode,

410
00:20:47,349 --> 00:20:50,729
it's about 90 minutes long with Sam Means.

411
00:20:50,729 --> 00:20:56,849
please hit the subscribe and we greatly appreciate any of the support that

412
00:20:56,849 --> 00:21:00,029
that you give Club Chain Radio thank you