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That's it, hot summer. That's it, open.

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The signal is here. This is Bloodshed Radio.

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Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the Lightning-Laced Airwaves.

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This is episode 150 of Plep Chain Radio, and we have a fun one in store for you today.

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Augie from the Mestadel is here, and we're going to talk about regenerative agriculture

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and the parallel system that is being built, and you didn't even know about it.

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If you are hearing my voice right now on Spotify or Apple, thank you for being here.

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But understand this, you are tuned into the legacy feed.

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It works, but it's a monologue.

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It's a one-way street.

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Over here on Fountain and Noster, we are building a two-way radio.

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This is a Valley for Valley broadcast.

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There are no corporate ads here because the producers of this show, that's you, keep the frequency clear.

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If you're ready to upgrade your experience, earn sats while you listen and actually have a say in the direction of the show, then come join the Real Signal over on the V4V side.

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Now, let's set the stage for the final word.

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The role of executive producer for next week is currently up for grabs

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As always, the top booster earns the title and the exclusive right to close out the show

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But remember, this segment works best when there's friction

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I'm not looking for an echo chamber

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I'm looking for a peer review

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In a moment, I'm going to get into the sermon

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If I strike a nerve, or if you think I missed the mark entirely, use the boost to correct the record.

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This is your chance to direct the show, not just support it.

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The final word is yours to take, provided you're willing to back up your argument.

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And that brings us to our sermon today.

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The top of the stack, that's what drives today's obsession.

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The interface, the aesthetic, the announcement, the brand, the overnight success story,

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conveniently skipping the years of quiet work, the failures,

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the compost pile of attempts that became nourishment for the next season.

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But the question is, is reality built from the top down?

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And the answer is no. Reality rises.

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It rises the way a forest rises, from rot and microbes and unseen agreements between roots and fungi.

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It rises the way a strong body rises, from sleep, repetition, and the boring consistency nobody wants to film.

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It rises the way a real economy rises, from trust, proximity, and people who keep their word when it would be easier to disappear.

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and it rises the way a healthy soil rises.

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Soil is the original protocol.

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It's a living network.

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It turns death into fertility, chaos into structure, sunlight into food.

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And when the soil is alive, the whole system becomes resilient.

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Drought hits, you adapt.

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Pests come, the ecology responds.

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Seasons shift.

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the land keeps breathing. But when the soil is dead you can still fake it for a while.

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You can pour inputs on top, you can spray, you can subsidize, you can advertise, you can hold up

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a perfect looking tomato that tastes like wet cardboard and pretend the system is fine.

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That's the pattern everywhere right now

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We're trying to solve deep living problems with shallow synthetic fixes

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We want abundance without stewardship

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We want community without commitment

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We want sovereignty without responsibility

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And we want fruit without the roots

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Here's the uncomfortable truth

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The top of the stack is always downstream from the soil

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If your culture is sick

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It's because the soil of relationships is depleted

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If your mind is scattered

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It's because the soil of attention has been strip mined

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If your money feels cursed

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It's because the soil of incentives has been captured

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If your technology becomes a cage

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it's because the soil of values never made it into the design.

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So the work, the real work, is stripped of glamour.

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It's regenerative.

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It's rebuilding living systems at the base layer.

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Better incentives, deeper trust, real fertility,

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and roots strong enough to hold the weight of whatever grows above them.

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Because once the soil is alive, everything above it becomes simpler.

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The harvest becomes honest. The trade becomes direct. The tools become servants instead of

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masters. The community becomes a place you can stand. And when someone is doing the work at that

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base layer, you can feel it. It has a different texture. Less performance, more presence. Less

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Less trust me, more look, it grows.

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And tonight, let's talk about building stacks that start with soil.

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Augie, welcome to Plep Chain Radio.

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Hey, thank you. Happy to be here.

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So Augie, you know, we've been chatting a little bit on Nostum.

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um, um, you're part, we're part of the Mesh2Del, well, you're part of the Mesh2Del crew. Uh, I'm,

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I'm just an observer and, uh, and, um, someone who claps, uh, from the sidelines, uh, for people

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who are unfamiliar with you and your work, why don't you give us a quick background and I,

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and also what in your mind the Mesh2Del actually is.

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so i am a software developer by trade that's my day job i've been doing a little bit of open

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source stuff in the past year or so but i'm still due to that but my main focus in my life right now

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apart from my twin boys that were born in october is building this regenerative farm i have

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I have 99 acres under my control and I'm doing management intensive rotational grazing.

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I started with sheep, got some pigs and the latest addition is cattle.

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And we've dabbled in some other animal species too, but this is the main species we've decided

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to stick with for right now.

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And just trying to figure out how to...

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Heal the soil while building a citadel and trying to welcome as much people in as possible using avenues like the local Bitcoin meetup that we have in Kansas City to, you know, farm pill Bitcoiners and orange pill farmers.

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I like that.

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It's almost like the yin and yang.

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two pills going in opposite directions

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perfectly balancing each other out

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in this Mesh Tadal

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so Augie, you know, we've had folks

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from the Mesh Tadal on the show

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Rev Hoddle being the very first one

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and he talks a lot about

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well actually he talks about LAM

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as well

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but

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for folks who are still scratching their heads

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and saying, I keep hearing this term Mesh Tadal

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you know, and I try

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describing it as, and I do a terrible

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terrible job of it. I tell them, yeah, it's like a portmanteau of mesh, mesh networks and Citadel.

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So that meshed a deal. And they're like, great, play on words. What does it actually mean?

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So why don't you sort of in simple terms, explain to folks what the meshed a deal is?

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Yeah, I sure try to talk about it as much as possible in terms of like Bitcoin meetups.

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I think like we need a Bitcoin meetup in every state and then we need Bitcoin meetup in every

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county within every state and then what those bitcoin meetups will do depends on the needs of

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that like local uh that locale so ours being in missouri is has a lot of agricultural stuff

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but uh maybe there's other ones in beach towns or whatever that they're doing more

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boating type things like fishing and things like that, surfing, whatever. But

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building a citadel based on your locale's needs and then having the mesh network be able to

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supplement things. So maybe where I'm located, it would be really hard to grow wool in a

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regenerative way. So people that are further north, where they don't necessarily have as much

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humidity or they don't have as much heat, I would rely on them to be the wool production. Maybe

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people down south, like right now I'm making this deodorant with arrowroot powder. Florida is the

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only, I believe it's the only place in America where you can get arrowroot powder. So we need

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to get a Citadel that's growing that.

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And having this Bitcoin-only circular economy

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that is self-sustaining internally and locally,

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but for luxuries, for additional items

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that will just add value,

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you can look to the rest of the mesh network.

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so you know when mesh network in the literal technological definition is these nodes that form

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a and you know a network that's sort of parallel to the internet it interoperates with the internet

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if you can you could choose to right typically radio waves uh lower low frequency or you're

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playing around with different frequency bands and getting these devices that can communicate

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with each other, you can potentially send Bitcoin transactions over as well, right? But also Nostra

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notes and so on, right? So in some sense, that's the literal technical idea behind a mesh network.

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But I get the sense, Augie, when I talk to you and I talk to others who are involved in this,

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that mesh sort of transcends the literal definition and becomes more of a metaphor.

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Is that a fair understanding?

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yeah i think another way to think about it too is like a hologram where if you like cut it in half

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each piece still contains like the whole like but it's just degraded so my maybe my citadel has the

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ability to produce food in xyz ways but it doesn't have the ability to produce um like i don't know i

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I don't do rabbits like Rev does rabbits.

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But if you cut the hologram that is the entire mesh to Dell, in part, we're still able to still produce food.

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It might not be the best items that we could have if we're all together, but we're still able to meet those basic needs.

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And in some sense, there's a parallel here with Noster, right?

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You can take a bunch of the main relays offline.

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you could take them down

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but NOSDA can still survive

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because it is in some sense a headless protocol

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anyone can spin up a relay if they so choose

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and you could take down damas.io

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you could take down primal.net

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you could take down nos.lol

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and a couple of the other big ones

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but you could still communicate

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yes you might not get the perfect broadcast

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you won't be able to broadcast your notes to every single person right off the bat,

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but it will regenerate.

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It has the ability to regenerate in that sense.

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Right. Redundancy, reproducibility is going to make the network more resilient.

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You know, these many to many connections.

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Okay, we have a cattle producer, but what if we have multiple cattle producers?

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That will make us more resilient.

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Maybe it will be more difficult to use some backup one but like Rev talks about we need to produce more than we actually need And then how do we use that abundance that we have

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So before we get into talking about what you're doing with your farm, you said you're a software developer.

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And presumably that's what got you into NOSTA.

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So I'm curious how you found NOSTA.

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And then I guess the other question is, how does a software developer say, you know what, screw this?

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Well, not screw this, but yeah, I'm a software developer, but I want to become a regenerative farmer as well.

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Yeah. How did I get into Nostra?

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I think it's just Hazard, the NoStrudle developer, goes to my Bitcoin meetup, and he was talking about it, and I tried it and was like, I'm going to play with this for a little bit before I decide to start using it.

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And probably like a month later, I ended up just deleting all of the other platforms that I used.

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They're just so they had become so toxic.

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To my life at that point, even if like you kind of need it when you have a business to be able to like share content out to large groups of people.

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But at this point, it's just I would rather just build the things that I need here on Noster to help with that.

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I think the social media part of it is not particularly interesting to me.

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If we talk about some of the dev projects I'm working on, they're on the other stuff side of the spectrum.

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um but how do i go from so what got me to wanting to be regenerative agriculture i think is just

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the touch of the tism that i happen to have is like the systems mindedness of uh of things so

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being an engineer like i love working in systems and uh the software systems just don't have

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any limitations besides like the speed of light. So it's really fun for work on that. But I think

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once I got out of college, I started studying YouTube University and when COVID hit, then I

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needed to get a little bit, I figured I needed to get a little bit more serious. That's a topic

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that I can get into more, what actually pushed me over the edge to making the jump. But I think

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I've been ingrained in my life from early on. I was a scout when I was a kid and, you know,

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leave no trace or like leave the campsite better than you left it. Just applying that to like the

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whole of my life of, I want the patch of dirt that I'm responsible for to be better off than

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whenever, like whenever I leave this planet, than whenever I found it.

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But studying a lot of regenerative agriculture stuff happened because I was actually starting to figure out how we could build food plots on some hunting ground that we had.

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That quickly was like no-till food plots, which the algorithm just kept pushing me into permaculture stuff from there and animals and all of those things.

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And I was like, I really should just do this because I think it's not that hard and I can't find any of these products locally for Bitcoin.

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So I really should just do this and be the change I want to see in the world.

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And it is just amazing being outside all of the time, having a work product that is so physically present and like can't.

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there's no bullshit involved.

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Like I'm a DevOps engineer,

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which is more abstract than a regular software developer.

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Like I build software for other software developers.

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So that abstraction is difficult to relate to other people with.

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And just like being out on the land and like looking at my animals and

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observing and the trees and the different species that are growing and trying to figure out how I can

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impact that in a way that I want and making mistakes along the way, fixing those, learning,

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adapting, changing, doing these longer term experiments is just so different than my day job

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that it is very fulfilling to my soul

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to have these two ends of the spectrum

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as part of my life.

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Hey, man, as a DevOps engineer,

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if you understand how Kubernetes works

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and can actually explain it to people,

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then soil and agriculture must be a walk in the park

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in comparison, in complexity terms.

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um no but but i actually you know there's something you said uh a short while back

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augie which is i just wanted to leave this patch of earth i showed up on a little better than

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when i came or was to that effect and that is so simple such a simple philosophy why is it so hard

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for for everyone to just say something like that and accept that as a core directive uh for them to

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or a guiding principle to live their life.

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It makes so much sense.

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I think a big part is a lack of ownership.

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I feel like that's kind of a cop-out answer, though,

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because even people that have ownership over the land

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don't necessarily abide by that.

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I think part of it is the system that we've been brought up in

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allows you to ignore the externalities that you create.

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You don't have any responsibility for the soil being depleted on your,

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on your property because you're,

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there's nothing negatively impacting you when there is a,

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a dust bowl that is created because you plow and plow and plow and well,

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everybody else is doing it too.

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so I'm gonna I'm gonna do it that way as well and I think the I I'm I've been leaning heavily

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lately on this you need to pay for your externalities um in whatever way it is like

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everyone I mean an easy an easy example of this is just plumbing like we just create waste every

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day and just it's somebody else's problem and that's basically a good metaphor for the rest of

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society like we can just create waste and it's out of sight out of mind and we don't have to care

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we have a system that doesn't care and it's really not not healthy to not be able to see the problems

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that you're creating downstream.

231
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I wonder if urban living has created this

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or shaped this mindset over the last,

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whatever it is, few hundred years.

234
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You know, I think of it as the trash compactor analogy, right?

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You're talking about waste.

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It's if you live in a high-rise building,

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as I did for a long time in New York City,

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and your trash piles up for a couple of days,

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you take the bag out,

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you walk down the lobby to the compactor you open the door or you open that little trap door

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put it in boom it's gone not your problem anymore then it goes you know it falls down that chute

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into the basement in a giant bag in the basement the the building handyman or or or staff they you

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know once every ex presumably once a day they come they collect that big bucket or cart with

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all the trash bags that have fallen in from the various floors. They bag those up and they toss

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them once a week onto the side of the street. Not their problem anymore. Their job is done.

246
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Then the municipal, it's the city, right? So the dump trucks come, the sanitation trucks come,

247
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they come once a week or twice a week, they come pick these things up, toss them into the back of

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the truck, go to the garbage dump, drop it there. They wash their hands off it at that point. And

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then so on and on and on it's just like this moral hazard essentially right that's that's there where

250
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you don't once it's off your hands you don't really care and i think uh i think that's kind

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of crept into modern behavior behavior right so when someone goes um and is building a plumbing

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system for their house or is is is tilling land they don't really have to care about what happens

253
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to their neighbor because, you know, they do their thing,

254
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it's on their property, and then they're done at that point.

255
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:12,350
Yeah, and it's really another aspect to it is, like,

256
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there's subsidies that, at least in America,

257
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that make this mindset easier.

258
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Like agriculture, having subsidies,

259
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uh means that like we don't need to worry about um like the food production as much because the

260
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government is going to pay that person's bills but if like a simplest thing is like uh collecting

261
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collecting urine watering it down and putting it on your garden is going to make it so much

262
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add so much nitrogen in there and going to make your plants so much more fertile

263
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and we just like we put that into drinking water and flush it away and it's it's that's really a

264
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crazy thing if you're thinking about it like 200 years ago you tell somebody you're just gonna do

265
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that that's how you're gonna deal with your your urine is it's gonna be insane but we don't we have

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a cheap and easy way to add fertility um but again that creates its own externalities like

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that's a highly energy intensive system we have to be reliant on um other entities like i think

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most of the that a lot of that fertilizer comes from um different countries as well and specifically

269
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mines and things like that that are just crazy when we have a lot of fertility and we have

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ways to deal with these externalities we're creating locally i mean it's it's is the exact

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opposite of a closed loop system, what we have today, which is what folks like you in

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the regenerative world and permaculture world, they're trying to close that loop and make

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it as sustainable as possible.

274
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But even you're talking about, I mean, just waste in general, right?

275
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You could have a situation, again, it's not easy to build this.

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I understand there is a capital, upfront capital cost to building this, but waste in general

277
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can be either used as fertilizer or anaerobically digested to create biomethane,

278
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which can be used as fuel, right?

279
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I mean, there is that.

280
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And not that many people are doing it, biomass and those types of things.

281
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We're in the early stages of a project that's similar to that here.

282
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We actually just had, it's called the Foundation for Regeneration.

283
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Uh, they have this project that's called the circular economy.

284
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And, um, we reached out to them to come talk to us and we did it like our first Socratic

285
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seminar at our Bitcoin meetup, um, regenerative agriculture and Bitcoin.

286
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Um, I think I called it cultivating value and they're built, they're doing this and

287
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they have this methane production facility.

288
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and then they from bio like they're making that biogas and so we've been talking with

289
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uh there's some characters in the twitter space that uh some guys at the meetup know who have

290
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talked about we have something that we can produce like three megawatts of energy so we're trying to

291
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talk with them about instead of spending this 60 million dollars of capital that you need to

292
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make the like three dollars per unit um from the from the selling this gas to the gaff company

293
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can we figure out how to we're going to spend a lot less money on the infrastructure to just

294
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spin up a bitcoin mine there and then you can have that or you can use that for your cash flow

295
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but also the impact of that is they have a biochar production facility alongside of that

296
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And so if we can figure this project out, this is really early stages, like we just talked about this last month. But then you can use the heat from the Bitcoin mine to dry the material that goes into the biochar production as well.

297
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Then again another closed loop there I think the biochar production produces syngas and heat So then can we use the heat from that on your phase two of the biogas setup which is black soldier fly larva further processing that down to provide heat for them during the winter um oh and then the syngas to again can we get a small generator that it it less energy every time but a

298
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generator that runs on that to then also add additional uh power to the bitcoin mine

299
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:09,040
yeah amazing stuff uh if it all plays out and why why wouldn't it if there are enough committed

300
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:17,420
individuals to doing it so augie let's go back to the farm when did you start this farm and

301
00:28:17,420 --> 00:28:23,160
i'm guessing you you jumped in as a software developer so you didn't have a background

302
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:33,960
in farming or any of this stuff correct yeah i'm a city boy so i started this farm in 2022

303
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:42,400
prior to that basically no farming experience during COVID I moved back to the St. Louis area

304
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,660
for to take care of my grandfather for a year and a half yeah he lived on like 10 acres

305
00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:56,280
and I got chickens just to make sure that like this would be the lifestyle for me like I was

306
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fairly nomadic before that almost got trapped in Brazil when the COVID lockdown started happening

307
00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:10,960
Um, so my only experience was having a flock of 12 chickens. I came here. I think the first thing

308
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I got was a guard dog. I got a small flock of sheep to start. So she was trained with four

309
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sheep and my chickens. And then I had been moving them around super frequently. And just by

310
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happenstance I got into contact with some people in the city who were having issues with one of

311
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:40,600
their leases or whatever it was just some hippies that were kind of trying to do what I'm actually

312
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doing but didn't have access to the land so I got a contract with them ended up within six months

313
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of going from four sheep to 90 sheep.

314
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And then they had 10, 12 pigs that I was raising as well.

315
00:30:01,260 --> 00:30:06,040
So that deal worked pretty good for about a year and a half.

316
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,060
By the time that I ended that contract,

317
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,840
there was 160 sheep under my control.

318
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And I had bred those pigs, all those pigs.

319
00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:21,020
So there was, gosh, how many piglets?

320
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,240
60 to 80?

321
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,860
I don't remember the final count.

322
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But so...

323
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,080
Not bad for a city boy.

324
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:31,920
Yeah.

325
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:32,920
Yeah.

326
00:30:33,220 --> 00:30:40,860
And so the people in the contract kept trying to change the terms of the deal.

327
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So I decided to get out of that.

328
00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:47,380
And now I only raise my own animals.

329
00:30:47,380 --> 00:31:03,400
I have 99 acres under my control. I have 30-ish sheep. I have three sows, which I actually just killed my boar because he got them pregnant.

330
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:10,700
And so then in, I guess that's April, I should have about 30 piglets.

331
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,280
This will be my third year of breeding pigs.

332
00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:17,720
Then I have four cows.

333
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,140
I started by buying a little herd of three just to start.

334
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,700
And one of them decided to jump the fence before I left for Thanksgiving at my parents

335
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:33,900
and spent the weekend on my neighbor's property,

336
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,620
and I didn't know there was bulls in there.

337
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:38,860
So this summer she dropped that calf.

338
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,320
So we had a fourth one.

339
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,780
Yeah, yeah, super funny.

340
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,980
Brought a neighbor's bull in just earlier this year

341
00:31:47,980 --> 00:31:50,800
and got the rest of them pregnant, hopefully,

342
00:31:51,340 --> 00:31:53,940
and slowly just growing the herd and the flock.

343
00:31:53,940 --> 00:32:01,320
Right now, I am grass-rich, and I need more cows, but the price of cattle is way too high.

344
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:07,240
One of my guard dogs is pregnant, so I have seven puppies in the barn right now.

345
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But yeah, that's the state, at least of the animals.

346
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,220
I've been slowly.

347
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,980
I work on really, really not farmable land.

348
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:19,960
It's super rocky.

349
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,620
It's very hilly.

350
00:32:22,620 --> 00:32:41,720
This is ground that basically can only be farmed with animals because it's just been bulldozed down and now there's grass in some places, but there's pioneer species popping up and taking over more and more pasture.

351
00:32:41,720 --> 00:33:00,060
And I'm taking the invasives out in all of the woods and running pigs and sheep through there to clean that up and using that instead of just going through and spraying a bunch of stuff to kill all these species.

352
00:33:00,060 --> 00:33:04,880
Because one of the main problems we have here is Japanese honeysuckle.

353
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,320
And the sheep really, really love to eat the leaves, but it's invasive as could be.

354
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:11,560
And it grows everywhere.

355
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:12,860
And you just look in all the woods.

356
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:14,620
You can't really walk or see.

357
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:17,580
You can't even see five feet into them, let alone walk.

358
00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:24,500
But in three years, I've used the sheep and the pigs to my advantage to repair those forests.

359
00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:31,800
So now I can walk around and consider, okay, how do I want to continue thinning this and creating silvopasture?

360
00:33:31,800 --> 00:34:01,160
I guess some things that I've steps I've taken for like education outside, like formally, instead of just looking things up and reading books and, and YouTube, which is great. But I do have a agroforestry certificate from the University of Missouri. And I got a management intensive rotational grazing certificate as well. But those are more just paper certs, like the same and same thing that I have for

361
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,060
DevOps just to

362
00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:05,540
let the fiat-minded know

363
00:34:05,540 --> 00:34:07,040
that I know what I'm talking about.

364
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,420
The fiat obsession

365
00:34:11,420 --> 00:34:12,760
with paper is amazing.

366
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:13,860
Paper credentials.

367
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,360
Why not just look

368
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,940
at the proof of work? Oh, no.

369
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,620
Where's the piece of paper that says

370
00:34:20,620 --> 00:34:23,380
you were certified by X, Y, and Z?

371
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,920
So the pigs

372
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:35,000
uh do you raise them for meat or is there an ecological

373
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:42,840
uh how do they is there a way in which they they participate in this closed loop that you're

374
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:49,600
trying to trying to create yeah so i do i do raise them for me um they get rotated around the farm

375
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:58,480
mostly in the wooded areas um i like i'll have these 30 piglets i mostly sell um i sell most of

376
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:05,100
the piglets to another farmer in the area because my genetics grow way faster than whatever they

377
00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:10,080
can get from another farmer. I'm not sure why that is. They just told me that they bought

378
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:16,760
some other piglets at the same time as they bought mine and it took them three months longer to finish

379
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:24,120
out these hogs than mine. I think it just happens to be like the fact that they're raised on dirt

380
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,880
and get to move around and eat different things that they produce piglets that are really

381
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:36,920
resilient. But so, yes, I use the pigs in the woods because all of the woods that I had was,

382
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,940
like I said before, unwalkable. It was unmanageable. It's just overgrown. Everything's

383
00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:49,140
there. So I can use them to mostly to direct my attention. I can put them in an area,

384
00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:55,680
let them disturb the ground as much as as i feel is necessary in that spot but like while i'm out

385
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:01,560
and about feeding them i'll go back there with a set of loppers and you know cut stuff down so now i

386
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:08,240
have a way ways to put other fence for other the other animals like the sheep back there um they

387
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:18,520
eat all the nuts off the ground um and then i can like um i can use them to break up big big old

388
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:24,960
logs that are rotting on the ground and turn those into just, you know, dirt as opposed to

389
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:31,100
just a rotting log that's going to be there for years and years. I can use them to, at one point

390
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:38,300
we were getting a pickup truck load of ugly produce from the city every week and giving that

391
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:46,840
to them. And they ended up seeding a bunch of volunteer tomatoes and we get pumpkins from people

392
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,220
when Thanksgiving season's over, and that's really good for them.

393
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:52,440
They love those as treats.

394
00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:57,180
It's super fun to watch them bust open a pumpkin the size of a human head

395
00:36:57,180 --> 00:37:00,120
or bigger and just like chow down on it.

396
00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:02,960
But they're really good at disturbing the soil in the woods

397
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:09,660
that is overgrown with invasive species and letting you start over.

398
00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:14,800
So in a traditional pig farm, I say traditional,

399
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,720
in a, let's call it a Fiat pig farm.

400
00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:23,760
Are they fed some kind of industrial slop

401
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,080
that comes in sacks?

402
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:26,420
Or do they?

403
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:27,600
Okay.

404
00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:31,120
So yeah, our pigs still get pig feed.

405
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:31,980
It's just they,

406
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,220
we don't have to give them as much.

407
00:37:36,220 --> 00:37:40,460
And originally I was going with a soy-free feed.

408
00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:42,020
I've since lost that supplier

409
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:44,740
and I've been trying to find a new one.

410
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:52,800
Um, there is another, um, there is another feed supplier that I'm considering using.

411
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:58,900
It's just significantly, like I'm talking about four times as much, um, to, to do that.

412
00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:03,480
And I don't have the market to support that currently.

413
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:13,540
And so the plan now is to, uh, we just feed the regular corn based, corn based pig feed.

414
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:23,720
and in I think the next batch I have from a local guy I just found him at my church actually

415
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:30,380
he has a plot that he has a non-GMO corn so I should be able to trans I'll be able to transition

416
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:39,120
to at least a non-GMO feed this next month I guess and and that's going to be a little bit

417
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:45,000
more expensive but again like selling direct to consumer allows me to have a little bit more

418
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:53,200
control over my clientele as opposed to selling into just a a barn a sale barn i mean soy and

419
00:38:53,200 --> 00:39:01,640
corn are they seem so unavoidable you know in in certainly in america in agriculture here right

420
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:08,120
it's like they're they're beyond just crops that are grown they're the platform industrial grade

421
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:15,360
platforms uh corn especially right i mean corn fiber corn high fructose corn syrup it's used for

422
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:21,560
xanthan gum and and other kinds of gums come out of it that are used as fillers and whatnot

423
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:29,080
is that even for pigs which i which i believe are some of the most resilient eaters

424
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:36,420
is corn and soy actually good for them oh definitely definitely not soy i'm a huge i do

425
00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:41,640
not like the fact that i'm feeding soy to my breeders right now the the phytoestrogen stuff

426
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:50,020
i do i really don't like that it's just a matter of trying to uh i can only i can only sell into

427
00:39:50,020 --> 00:39:56,680
a market my the market that i sell into can only accept a certain dollar value um so i have to make

428
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:03,300
do with what i can and just use them as tools um to to do the other work around the the farm that i

429
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:09,120
need while I build up a market that wants that demands more higher quality stuff.

430
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,740
Corn, I'm actually not like a huge hater of corn.

431
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:16,480
I think the way that it's necessary that it's grown today is really bad.

432
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:23,860
I think if we did it like non GMO, more organic, less mono crops, it would be super beneficial.

433
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:26,420
And also just like.

434
00:40:26,420 --> 00:40:31,360
a distillery near me just closed down.

435
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,680
And so I'm talking to my neighbor who's a mechanic to see if he'll want to

436
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:42,560
convert my Polaris over to ethanol and have me start distilling ethanol

437
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:48,380
so that I can run my farm equipment off of the feed that they fill my animals.

438
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:54,600
And I think that the idea of function stacking and having the resilience,

439
00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:02,080
like the corn is all over i ideally would not be sheeting that to any of my uh animals at least the

440
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:07,760
corn that is being grown here but if i can function stack where i now have independence from

441
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:19,360
um gas for my farm equipment then we start to get into more of like a permaculture ideal and not

442
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:27,620
necessarily just being purists. Cause I, I, again, I'm like, I was a kid in high school who loved

443
00:41:27,620 --> 00:41:32,980
biology to the point where I was like determined to become a genetic engineer. And then we went on

444
00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:45,350
a field trip my senior year to Monsanto And I was like Oh I have a pipeline to a job here This is in my hometown This is going to be great I wanted to do so much genetic engineering stuff And then I like did all

445
00:41:45,350 --> 00:41:50,490
the research and was like, Oh, this is the devil. Like I do not want to sell my soul to this

446
00:41:50,490 --> 00:41:55,910
company and do this. So I went in an entirely different direction, but, uh, it is just like

447
00:41:55,910 --> 00:42:00,010
operating within the existing environment.

448
00:42:00,010 --> 00:42:07,190
so that was the pigs uh the cows are they dairy cows or beef cows

449
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:14,230
these are beef cows it's a cross of an angus and a beef master i definitely uh want different

450
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:20,930
genetics but um again cattle is at the such a high price right now that i'm just trying to

451
00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:23,670
take what I can get.

452
00:42:25,210 --> 00:42:26,830
Why is that? Is that just

453
00:42:26,830 --> 00:42:28,410
fiat fuckery

454
00:42:28,410 --> 00:42:31,070
with inflation or is there something more

455
00:42:31,070 --> 00:42:33,070
insidious happening with cattle prices?

456
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:35,170
Joel would be the one

457
00:42:35,170 --> 00:42:36,550
to, Joel or

458
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:38,250
I think you had Tom on.

459
00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:39,770
Tom Tabor, yeah.

460
00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:40,210
Yeah.

461
00:42:42,910 --> 00:42:43,770
I think

462
00:42:43,770 --> 00:42:45,050
it's more insidious.

463
00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:47,070
I think that

464
00:42:47,070 --> 00:42:49,790
it's a little bit

465
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:55,830
legislative stuff happening with the labeling requirements and a bunch of different things.

466
00:42:58,250 --> 00:43:04,270
The stock of cattle that we have in the US is the lowest rate that it's ever been right now.

467
00:43:04,430 --> 00:43:10,970
So it is just supply and demand. But why that stock is so low is pretty much,

468
00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:15,230
I think, government intervention is causing that.

469
00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:22,950
in what way so for folks who don't fully understand this and i know you said there

470
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:28,070
are others who are experts on this okay but what is your take on this how is government intervention

471
00:43:28,070 --> 00:43:32,870
with with the government in theory right you have guys like rfk who are part of this

472
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:40,550
administration so who in theory should be friendlier uh to beef uh how exactly are they

473
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:47,930
dwindling the stock with their regulation um well like a lot of it has to do with like the labeling

474
00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:53,390
requirements that are going on and i haven't looked into this in the past three months or so

475
00:43:53,390 --> 00:44:03,370
but i my my understanding is like their beef that it says it's like made in america it doesn't

476
00:44:03,370 --> 00:44:09,350
necessarily have to be like made in america it can just be like packaged here and come from overseas

477
00:44:09,350 --> 00:44:29,290
So if you're like a meat packaging facility, it's going to behoove you to go just get the lowest quality product, not lowest quality, lowest cost product that you have, repackage it, and then you can just sell it for a higher premium, increase your profit margin that way versus going to like American farmers.

478
00:44:29,290 --> 00:44:46,470
There's that. There's the USDA facilities that you have to use to get your product into restaurants and such. They're so limited. They're so overbearing with those regulations that that part becomes hard.

479
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:53,350
um i think importing genetics i think there's i haven't like looked into that specifically but i

480
00:44:53,350 --> 00:45:01,930
do know at least the sheep level that that is um severely like overbearing it's very difficult to

481
00:45:01,930 --> 00:45:09,630
like import genetics from overseas um and then also just like it's like a long it's like a long

482
00:45:09,630 --> 00:45:18,810
term thing too like black angus is such a big animal um and the re like that is really not good

483
00:45:18,810 --> 00:45:26,270
for the soil and the industry has just gone that way because oh we can just put pesticides we can

484
00:45:26,270 --> 00:45:33,670
just put uh herbicides we can just um give these animals like medicine and we don't have to worry

485
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:40,050
about the fact that like oh they're this breed is going to get pink eye um like we're gonna

486
00:45:40,050 --> 00:45:47,050
supplement all these other in these other pharmaceutical ways so that these animals

487
00:45:47,050 --> 00:45:53,590
stay healthy even if they're um like the soil beneath them is just going to keep continue to

488
00:45:53,590 --> 00:46:00,790
get worse and like yeah there's a lot of like there's no like that thing we talked about earlier

489
00:46:00,790 --> 00:46:08,050
with externalities like seeing all across the midwest you'll see cows swimming in ponds and

490
00:46:08,050 --> 00:46:16,370
lakes that farmers have and that is just like so bad for the ecosystem because like they're

491
00:46:16,370 --> 00:46:21,190
they're going to then require additional pharmaceutical inputs to keep them healthy

492
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:26,110
because they're pooping and peeing in the water that they're drinking and then that ground water

493
00:46:26,110 --> 00:46:31,350
then has to continue to be treated at even higher ratios

494
00:46:31,350 --> 00:46:36,470
instead of using that as a fertilizer,

495
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:40,610
it becomes pollution almost.

496
00:46:42,530 --> 00:46:45,930
And there's some things that you can't quite control,

497
00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:50,610
even if you're fully regenerative at your end, right,

498
00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:52,110
which is water bodies.

499
00:46:52,110 --> 00:46:57,670
if a farmer next door is allowing his cows to do that

500
00:46:57,670 --> 00:47:03,010
and that water body's, your farm is downstream of that farm, right?

501
00:47:03,130 --> 00:47:06,930
And, you know, he treats the water with whatever chemicals.

502
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:11,090
Those could enter either entering your water supply

503
00:47:11,090 --> 00:47:16,830
or the water body on your property or just the soil through osmosis, right?

504
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:21,450
Yeah, actually, like a year or two ago,

505
00:47:21,450 --> 00:47:27,250
a couple of us neighbors even though i'm really the only farmer on this creek that goes through

506
00:47:27,250 --> 00:47:32,450
the back of my property uh we kind of formed a little posse and went and

507
00:47:34,030 --> 00:47:39,190
had to intimidate one of the the neighbor kids that's like 18 19 years old because he

508
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:46,190
got an asphalt business doing people's um doing people's driveways and we caught him

509
00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:52,350
putting the waste or extra from his tank or whatever into that creek and i was like dude

510
00:47:52,350 --> 00:48:00,510
i am literally feeding animals that i'm going to eat off of this and we like kind of put the fear

511
00:48:00,510 --> 00:48:06,150
of god in him that even the neighbors who are not farmers were like hey now you can't be putting

512
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:15,290
asphalt into the creek so um yeah the upstream effects are really really uh you gotta do what

513
00:48:15,290 --> 00:48:23,810
you can with what you got, but having close neighbors and hopefully a little bit smarter

514
00:48:23,810 --> 00:48:26,710
people upstream than you usually benefits.

515
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:35,230
Let's talk about how we're still on the topic of cows in your farm, the 99 acres.

516
00:48:35,590 --> 00:48:36,570
And what is it?

517
00:48:36,970 --> 00:48:39,090
Almost a dozen cows that you have?

518
00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:41,110
A handful of cows that you...

519
00:48:41,110 --> 00:48:42,590
We only have four cows right now.

520
00:48:42,610 --> 00:48:43,650
We've got more sheep.

521
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:44,770
We have 32 sheep.

522
00:48:44,770 --> 00:48:45,710
Oh, sheep, okay.

523
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:48,390
Yeah, so they're all pregnant now.

524
00:48:48,570 --> 00:48:57,810
So then this year we should have upwards around 60 to 90 sheep again.

525
00:48:58,650 --> 00:49:00,330
And yeah.

526
00:49:01,090 --> 00:49:04,110
No, but before we get to the sheep, the cows themselves,

527
00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:07,850
let's talk about how they can contribute to this feedback loop,

528
00:49:08,030 --> 00:49:09,170
this regenerative nature.

529
00:49:10,670 --> 00:49:11,590
Okay, yeah.

530
00:49:11,590 --> 00:49:19,390
Um, so most of the land that I lease, so I only own, I only own about a third of what

531
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:20,690
I have under my control.

532
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:23,510
The other land is basically hay ground.

533
00:49:24,330 --> 00:49:31,950
And what you can see from these, these hay fields that, uh, the hay has just been taken

534
00:49:31,950 --> 00:49:35,130
and taken and taken is they get this thing called poverty grass.

535
00:49:35,710 --> 00:49:37,670
Uh, some people call it broom sedge.

536
00:49:37,670 --> 00:50:04,890
It is a grass that is golden brown. It's cover covers the Midwest. You can tell that that it's a hay field because of this after they cut the hay. It grows up fast and is just the only thing there. It has no nutritional value to any of the animals. It is super. It spreads super easily when you when you just hay and hay and hay and you don't add any fertility on the ground.

537
00:50:04,890 --> 00:50:17,530
And so I've already like in just one of the fields that I've leased, I've just been unrolling hay for a year and I've killed off like 50 percent of the poverty grass that's growing there.

538
00:50:18,310 --> 00:50:24,850
And so that just is going to add additional carbon into the soil.

539
00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:32,590
it's going to um like we've had in the three years that i've been here nobody in my neighborhood has

540
00:50:32,590 --> 00:50:37,270
ever seen a dung beetle and now we have dung beetles and i was like taking pictures of cow

541
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:43,250
crap and showing my neighbors pictures and they're like what a weirdo but uh it's so neat to see

542
00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:50,050
on the dung beetles for for very much a city guy like me and perhaps a few others who might be

543
00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:57,710
listening seeing dung beetles is a good thing yes or is it about yes yes so they uh contribute to

544
00:50:57,710 --> 00:51:05,190
making the the cow manure the cow pies break down faster um certain species i'm not sure which ones

545
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:11,430
we have um certain species actually like will bury the manure in the ground so that the nitrogen

546
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:19,030
doesn't just off gas straight into the atmosphere um uh yeah but they make like our cow patties

547
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:24,990
disintegrate much more rapidly um since when we started but you can't have those if you're

548
00:51:24,990 --> 00:51:34,270
going to be constantly worming worming your animals um let's see so yeah they contribute

549
00:51:34,270 --> 00:51:41,370
um their manure and their urine is obviously nitrogen it's a fertilizer for the grassland

550
00:51:41,370 --> 00:51:49,950
um then the i keep i keep coming back to this but like my attention with the animals like it helps me

551
00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:57,490
when i'm out there like uh the way i water is i have to haul water so i have a a lopper in the

552
00:51:57,490 --> 00:52:04,490
back of my truck and oh i see that there's some uh some invasive species popping up like a

553
00:52:04,490 --> 00:52:12,250
multiflora rose, a super thorny rose bush that is invasive and really painful if you run into it.

554
00:52:12,590 --> 00:52:17,350
I can just go over there while their water's filling up and cut it down with my loppers early

555
00:52:17,350 --> 00:52:26,330
on, and I can use them to trample hay into those poverty grass spots. But I've gotten,

556
00:52:26,330 --> 00:52:34,330
my county advises, I think they advise one cow for every four acres, and I've only been doing

557
00:52:34,330 --> 00:52:41,510
this for three years and i'm up to one cow for every two acres and i hope to get to one cow per

558
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:48,430
acre in the next two to five years um just by moving them around so much um as opposed to the

559
00:52:48,430 --> 00:52:56,550
hay ground gets cut one was getting cut once a year and i'm grazing these fields four five six

560
00:52:56,550 --> 00:53:04,310
times in some in some cases uh every year you know this is all incredibly inspiring

561
00:53:04,310 --> 00:53:11,550
stuff, Augie, because these are all stories of resilience and rebirth and just, you know,

562
00:53:11,650 --> 00:53:18,850
showing that nature and life will find a way if you give it a chance. All it needs is a chance,

563
00:53:19,370 --> 00:53:26,150
not bombarded with chemicals or overused or abused. Just take a step back and

564
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:29,130
do things the natural way and life finds a way.

565
00:53:29,130 --> 00:53:36,510
yeah i mean even my my cow jumping the fence to go get knocked up by the neighbor's bulls like

566
00:53:36,510 --> 00:53:43,570
she just had it one morning and i walked out there and i'm like is there another grass puppy

567
00:53:43,570 --> 00:53:52,030
out here what's going on that's great uh all right so let's talk about the sheep uh which

568
00:53:52,030 --> 00:53:58,570
are the 30-odd you have, and you're expecting that to double soon.

569
00:53:59,230 --> 00:54:03,630
Clearly the largest member of your burgeoning farm.

570
00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:13,370
What is the – so do you use them – are they for meat, lamb, mutton, or wool?

571
00:54:13,970 --> 00:54:16,110
Yeah, so these are hare sheep.

572
00:54:16,110 --> 00:54:24,750
uh they're a mixed katahdin saint croix cross which if anyone is familiar with greg judy that's

573
00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:30,050
the genetics that i have he's a farmer in missouri that's popular on youtube with the regenerative

574
00:54:30,050 --> 00:54:41,150
agriculture space um they are also a tool that i use um mostly the sheep are good because we have

575
00:54:41,150 --> 00:54:48,850
such crazy hills that if we're using big, large cattle, we would have huge ruts and divots. In the

576
00:54:48,850 --> 00:54:55,790
month of March, it gets really muddy here in general just because the ice is melting and all

577
00:54:55,790 --> 00:55:03,450
the ground starts to get soppy. And they're light enough that they don't have that big of an impact

578
00:55:03,450 --> 00:55:10,530
on compressing the soil. So they can go up and down the hills a lot faster too. The benefit for

579
00:55:10,530 --> 00:55:18,950
that is that they also like, um, like a cow mostly only wants to eat grass, but a sheep really will,

580
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:24,150
is it's more like a goat, not that it will eat everything, but it'll eat a lot more of a diverse

581
00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:31,350
diet. So it will browse on the trees and such and help, um, to in like in those parts of the woods

582
00:55:31,350 --> 00:55:33,450
where I've been cutting down, um,

583
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:39,960
um, the Japanese honeysuckle, they love those huge bushes that I just, I just go out there,

584
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:46,700
cut them down and I cut them down at the, at the base. So then the next year that they come,

585
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:51,400
um, back through there, that the honeysuckle will be right at the height that they need

586
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:57,000
to be able to eat it. And then, you know, three, four years of doing that, I've seen

587
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:03,840
those plants die off because I'm hitting them so frequently. And so they're helping me to get rid

588
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:09,200
of the invasive species that we have. They also eat the multiflora rose because their mouth is

589
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:15,600
small enough to not get the thorns. Like a cow would get those thorns in their tongue. A sheep

590
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:23,320
can just pull those leaves off. And then, so those two invasive species are dying off a lot.

591
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:29,440
um they also like we have a lot of osage orange which is the thorny tree which i'm not trying to

592
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:34,940
get rid of entirely but i am trying to um get rid of a lot of it so i have a bunch of tree hay

593
00:56:34,940 --> 00:56:46,200
that i can cut from that um and their their manure and their urine is is just as uh fertilizer uh

594
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:52,180
it's just as much of a fertilizer as the as the cows is um craig judy talks about whenever he

595
00:56:52,180 --> 00:56:57,400
looks around his field, he sees every time he sees a cow pat, he sees a dollar. And I like to

596
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:03,720
look at those little cow, those little pellets, like a deer is how, uh, sheep, sheep droppings

597
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:10,300
are. And I like to look at those and think of each one of those as a penny. So, um, I think that,

598
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:16,400
um, the sheep are also way more efficient at water. If you don't feed them hay in the winter

599
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:23,400
for four, four, basically four months out of the year, they don't drink water unless you're feeding

600
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,920
them hay, in which case they need, they need some water. But, um, in the past when I wasn't using hay,

601
00:57:29,260 --> 00:57:37,940
I did not have to water them. They barely drink anything. Um, they have, uh, a more valuable meat

602
00:57:37,940 --> 00:57:46,240
product. They also reproduce mostly in twins. So you can grow your flock a lot faster. Um,

603
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:54,560
they're super parasite resistant. Like I've never given any, any sheep, any kind of medicine

604
00:57:54,560 --> 00:58:01,800
whatsoever. Like I've had to give, um, some of my cattle, some pink eye, um, medication because

605
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:07,640
they'll get their eyes poked by the seed heads on the grass, but I've literally never given a single,

606
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:14,520
um, bit of any antibiotic to any sheep and they've just performed so great. And all the moms give me,

607
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:26,040
um, give me twins every year. And, uh, I really do hope someday to cultivate, uh, um, a network

608
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:34,040
that we can use, um, their skins as well, because I'm, I have a, a, a shearling lambskin jacket that

609
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:41,400
I wear all over town. Um, and I really love it. And I think that their, their hides can make

610
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:46,860
really really beautiful clothing jackets and um pants and things like that

611
00:58:47,380 --> 00:58:55,520
and you said you did you say sell them for meat as well yeah so while we're growing the flock i

612
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:04,480
just uh when they they're born in may i banned all the ram lambs that are born and so this year i

613
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:12,260
have seven for sale. Uh, and then like next year I'll probably end up having like 14, uh, 14 or

614
00:59:12,260 --> 00:59:18,040
more, um, Rams. So I just keep all of the girls and I, um, sell all the boys for, for me.

615
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:30,140
Amazing. Okay. Okay. Well, we're at the hour mark. Um, so let's turn over to our Valley for

616
00:59:30,140 --> 00:59:36,340
value music segment and then when we come back i want to talk about how all of this uh plays into

617
00:59:36,340 --> 00:59:41,300
bitcoin and then we can talk a little bit about what you're working on on nostril as well but uh

618
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:46,860
we're going to keep the energy pinned for this next one uh you know i sometimes scroll the

619
00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:53,460
headlines really i shouldn't but i do before i record these shows and half the time it feels

620
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:59,620
like we're living through a slow motion collapse but the trick isn't to ignore it it's to find the

621
00:59:59,620 --> 01:00:04,960
right soundtrack for it right maybe that's how you you deal with it so this band is called the

622
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:14,080
trusted they're out of the uk and they have this massive anthemic sound like you can think arctic

623
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:23,340
monkeys or the 1975 but also a little bit of grit this track is called doomsday it's a song about

624
01:00:23,340 --> 01:00:29,040
psychological apocalypse about the pressure building up inside your head until it cracks

625
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,740
if you looked at

626
01:00:31,740 --> 01:00:34,080
the charts recently

627
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,380
you know exactly what this feels like

628
01:00:36,380 --> 01:00:37,140
so

629
01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:39,900
let's let it rip

630
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:05,600
I heard the world was ending

631
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:10,400
And I don't know how I'm supposed to feel

632
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:15,760
We're playing poker without demons

633
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,540
And I've got nothing left to steal

634
01:01:20,540 --> 01:01:25,280
So throw yourself against the wall

635
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,280
Don't let them see you crying

636
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,380
Get on your knees and start to crawl

637
01:01:30,380 --> 01:01:32,460
Take my life by lying

638
01:01:32,460 --> 01:01:35,460
Watch it all just to crush and burn

639
01:01:35,460 --> 01:01:37,560
In a really bad place

640
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,360
If all you don't say

641
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,020
Just stop

642
01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:45,420
Are you talking?

643
01:01:47,300 --> 01:01:50,400
Please keep both hands on the wheel

644
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,160
You're angry

645
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,740
And you're howling

646
01:01:55,740 --> 01:02:00,580
I've got no time left to kill

647
01:02:00,580 --> 01:02:05,280
Just throw yourself against the wall

648
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,280
Don't let them see you crying

649
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,360
Get on your knees and start to crawl

650
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,480
Take my life by lying

651
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,480
Watch it all just to crush and burn

652
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,540
And hurt a bad place

653
01:02:17,540 --> 01:02:19,860
With all your birthday

654
01:02:25,740 --> 01:02:47,220
I heard the world was ending

655
01:02:47,220 --> 01:02:52,940
And I don't know how I'm supposed to feel

656
01:02:52,940 --> 01:02:58,220
We're playing poker without demons

657
01:02:58,220 --> 01:03:03,120
And I've got nothing left to steal

658
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:07,800
So throw yourself against the wall

659
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:09,780
Don't let them see you crying

660
01:03:09,780 --> 01:03:12,880
Get on your knees and start to crawl

661
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,980
Take my life by lying

662
01:03:14,980 --> 01:03:17,960
Wipe it all just to crush and burn

663
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,060
You're in a really bad place

664
01:03:20,060 --> 01:03:22,620
Slip it for the fire, you don't stay

665
01:03:22,620 --> 01:03:27,780
Just throw yourself against the wall

666
01:03:27,780 --> 01:03:29,820
Don't let them see you crying

667
01:03:29,820 --> 01:03:32,840
Get on your knees and start to crawl

668
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,740
Take my love by lying

669
01:03:34,740 --> 01:03:37,980
Watch it out just to crush and burn

670
01:03:37,980 --> 01:03:40,040
In a really bad place

671
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,540
Slip it for the fire, you don't stay

672
01:03:42,540 --> 01:03:52,840
That was Doomsday by The Trusted.

673
01:03:53,420 --> 01:03:57,860
That chorus felt big with the piercing guitar hooks

674
01:03:57,860 --> 01:03:59,740
and the wall of sound production

675
01:03:59,740 --> 01:04:03,300
that's asking, screaming in fact,

676
01:04:03,380 --> 01:04:04,560
to be played in a stadium.

677
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:06,920
And it's funny, I think the song

678
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,680
is technically about a personal meltdown,

679
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:10,560
it's a cry for help,

680
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:16,320
but it also somehow feels triumphant it's like yeah it's doomsday but we're still here

681
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:24,180
we're still broadcasting and we we are still building so i've got the 90 splits set up for

682
01:04:24,180 --> 01:04:31,980
the chapter if you dug that high energy indie vibe send them a boost and let them know that

683
01:04:31,980 --> 01:04:39,060
even on doomsday the sats are still flowing augie what did you think of the song

684
01:04:39,060 --> 01:04:47,540
i uh i'm more of a plebslop gangster rap aficionado myself so i have to send this one to my

685
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:54,420
my brother who's the musician in the family tell tell him to give it a listen what is plebslop

686
01:04:54,420 --> 01:05:05,100
gangster rap oh i'd say like juicy j the old school three six mafia all that 90s and early 2000s

687
01:05:05,100 --> 01:05:06,480
nonsense.

688
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:09,340
Nice.

689
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:11,640
All right.

690
01:05:11,700 --> 01:05:13,660
So, Augie, we talked about, you know,

691
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:14,820
the different aspects of your farm,

692
01:05:14,900 --> 01:05:16,760
how you're controlling for the externalities,

693
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,640
how all of the animals you have

694
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,200
are contributing in one way or another

695
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:23,480
to that feedback loop, right?

696
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,120
That's the regenerative aspect of it.

697
01:05:26,780 --> 01:05:30,160
Let's talk about how all of this ties into Bitcoin

698
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,020
and then more broadly the Meshtadel community

699
01:05:33,020 --> 01:05:38,020
that you know, Rev. Hoddle, Shadrach, others are involved in.

700
01:05:38,020 --> 01:05:57,350
Okay yeah So I really started this farm because I could not find Virginia of Agriculture products locally that I could pay for in Bitcoin I was already into Bitcoin for a couple of years beforehand and I was already bought into the you know Bitcoin is money let use it as such

701
01:05:57,830 --> 01:06:00,510
that Oshie puts on his labels.

702
01:06:01,990 --> 01:06:09,990
But so I've been going to this Bitcoin meetup since about the time that I started this farm,

703
01:06:10,070 --> 01:06:11,130
maybe a little bit afterwards.

704
01:06:12,070 --> 01:06:31,870
But I have been offering these products for Bitcoin. So I try to supplement my products. I try to supplement them with some other goods that are from neighboring farms.

705
01:06:31,870 --> 01:06:44,690
So I've been selling raw milk at the meetup. I got a five-pound bucket of honey from actually two doors down is where the hives are, but it's a local beekeeper and been selling that for sats.

706
01:06:44,690 --> 01:07:05,250
It's hoping to build my reputation up and have a good relationship with the people at my meetup to be able to want to buy higher ticket items like a half a lamb, a whole lamb, half a cow, a pork, a whole pig.

707
01:07:05,250 --> 01:07:14,250
I mean, and building that reputation with them so that they whenever they come to these, you know, these higher ticket items that they're like, oh, I trust this guy.

708
01:07:14,330 --> 01:07:15,490
He's not going to rip me off.

709
01:07:16,010 --> 01:07:17,130
Things like that.

710
01:07:18,750 --> 01:07:19,310
So.

711
01:07:20,450 --> 01:07:34,270
Also been able to like because I started coming and selling my products at these meetups, other people have started to sell more and more things like we have a guy sells some little 3D printed trinkets.

712
01:07:34,270 --> 01:07:40,930
he's been bringing those more frequently we have a lady who started making salsa and selling it

713
01:07:40,930 --> 01:07:49,090
another lady who's been coming around and selling her soaps that she makes and really just like

714
01:07:49,090 --> 01:07:54,650
trying to build a circular economy trying to build relationships through transacting with each other

715
01:07:54,650 --> 01:08:02,190
I think I'm going to give some of my hides to Lorian if you ever watch a bowl after bowl podcast

716
01:08:02,190 --> 01:08:11,090
her and spencer do that and i think she's going to try to do some tanning with those and so we're

717
01:08:11,090 --> 01:08:17,730
just trying to build like the basic goods that need to be offered for bitcoin i know it's nice

718
01:08:17,730 --> 01:08:26,770
to be able to pay for like a vpn to be able to pay for um like digital services to be able to send

719
01:08:26,770 --> 01:08:36,070
zaps um but i am a huge huge raw materials maxi on like i want to be able to buy bricks

720
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:45,910
wood um the things that like um max uh i forget the guy up up in england that that he's really

721
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:51,930
close with that does the has the sawmill but i really think that we need to get if we're going

722
01:08:51,930 --> 01:08:58,350
to build a parallel economy, then we need to start from the ground up. We, luxury goods are nice,

723
01:08:58,350 --> 01:09:03,210
but I want to be able, I want people to be able to feed their families. I want people to be able

724
01:09:03,210 --> 01:09:11,110
to clothe their families on a Bitcoin standard and not have to, um, just go to a store where

725
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:16,330
they don't know the farmer, where they don't know what these goods are and, um, buy, buy goods with

726
01:09:16,330 --> 01:09:24,410
their with their bitcoin that way how many people up uh in your meetup in your community are part of

727
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:33,530
this are using bitcoin for goods and services uh i'd say i have about five i have five milk customers

728
01:09:33,530 --> 01:09:41,930
regularly and then i have about 10 to 15 people who are buying um buying my goods my other farm

729
01:09:41,930 --> 01:09:50,410
goods from me um i really really am we're pushing this year to to to try to grow the offerings that

730
01:09:50,410 --> 01:09:56,790
we have not necessarily from from my farm but like getting more people to come that have products to

731
01:09:56,790 --> 01:10:03,810
offer um and hopefully that we can use that part of the uh the circular economy to drive

732
01:10:03,810 --> 01:10:09,630
increased participation in the in the bitcoin space and there are other

733
01:10:09,630 --> 01:10:14,990
nodes that are doing similar things right you have them in pennsylvania

734
01:10:14,990 --> 01:10:21,550
i think in the michigan area if i'm not mistaken somewhere mostly in the midwest it seems like

735
01:10:21,550 --> 01:10:29,350
um do you connect with with those i mean like rev hodl right is doing and others how do you

736
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:36,250
connect with those how does that work yeah so i am like super on fire about uh lake satoshi last

737
01:10:36,250 --> 01:10:44,190
year it was so inspiring whenever i went i mostly just went drove up there uh brought some brought

738
01:10:44,190 --> 01:10:50,790
a cooler full of meat and cheese and um just like wanted to figure out what the vibe was and went up

739
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:57,570
there and just being was so inspired um that is how i really connect with those guys um but i came

740
01:10:57,570 --> 01:11:04,290
away with so much ideas that we wanted to that i wanted to do down here so um we're gonna have

741
01:11:04,290 --> 01:11:11,550
our first uh like lake satoshi's a retreat and we're gonna have our first on on my farm

742
01:11:11,550 --> 01:11:18,230
we're gonna have a retreat and call it nakamo town um that's gonna be that that's gonna be in

743
01:11:18,230 --> 01:11:25,370
october um we have can i invite myself ogie oh for sure for sure it'll be our first one so

744
01:11:25,370 --> 01:11:37,910
So it won't be as nice and put together as the Lake Satoshi guys have, but it will be a fun time getting together, just drinking beers, talking Bitcoin and swimming in the pond.

745
01:11:37,910 --> 01:11:42,650
It probably won't be warm enough by then, but people can fish and camp out.

746
01:11:42,750 --> 01:11:43,790
It'll be a good time.

747
01:11:45,690 --> 01:11:51,930
But coming from there, I was just on fire and the Michigan meetup scene is really great.

748
01:11:51,930 --> 01:12:01,690
And so I've been what I have been doing is going to other meetups across the state of Missouri once a quarter.

749
01:12:01,950 --> 01:12:09,130
So there's a meetup in St. Louis and then in the middle of Kansas City and St. Louis, there's Jeff City and Columbia.

750
01:12:09,130 --> 01:12:22,350
And so I've been going to those meetups once a quarter. And the goal is to basically create a Silk Road as in the ancient version, the Chinese Silk Road, not the website.

751
01:12:22,350 --> 01:12:28,870
But to have a trade, a Bitcoin trade route, we can call it the denim road or whatever we want to call it.

752
01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:41,730
But to be able to benefit from the St. Louis guys, if they orange pill, some vendor of materials or products that we want in Kansas City, then we have a way to get those delivered out here.

753
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:44,790
And the same thing for the Jeff City people.

754
01:12:45,390 --> 01:12:47,450
So that's like what we're working on now.

755
01:12:47,530 --> 01:12:50,350
And I think you're going to have Ryan on soon if you haven't already.

756
01:12:50,350 --> 01:12:56,390
he's a little south of st louis those guys i met those farmington guys um and they have a whole

757
01:12:56,390 --> 01:13:01,830
big circular economy down there and so we're hoping to have this cross state of the state

758
01:13:01,830 --> 01:13:08,230
of missouri getting all these goods moved regularly through the meetup um event eventually

759
01:13:08,230 --> 01:13:16,770
i hope to plug in with shadrach's um his uh a to b stuff and have that um be the actual

760
01:13:16,770 --> 01:13:24,230
coordination layer for it. We just haven't gotten a chance to do that. But that's really what I'm

761
01:13:24,230 --> 01:13:31,410
working on right now is to get locally, build up the circular economy, but also have more

762
01:13:31,410 --> 01:13:35,710
cross-pollination between the other meetups in the state.

763
01:13:37,170 --> 01:13:43,510
And please tell me, Augie, that the coordination layer for all of this is NOSTA, correct?

764
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:51,710
it's it's got to be yeah yeah so uh i mean right right now it's just getting those going to those

765
01:13:51,710 --> 01:13:57,370
meetups i have a suitcase basically that i have that i just pop open like a drug dealer and it's

766
01:13:57,370 --> 01:14:04,190
got honey and uh lard based deodorant and uh other other farm goods and and you know transacting that

767
01:14:04,190 --> 01:14:10,510
way um but hope i really want to get to the point where it's like my pickup truck is full once a

768
01:14:10,510 --> 01:14:15,310
quarter and then maybe we end up having to move it towards i'm going to these meetups these other

769
01:14:15,310 --> 01:14:24,170
meetups once a month um or somebody else is doing um travel to these meetups uh more frequently than

770
01:14:24,170 --> 01:14:29,630
than quarterly so that we can slowly but surely over the next couple of years start to build this

771
01:14:29,630 --> 01:14:37,650
uh um supply chain of our own yeah well you know it's a supply chain running through

772
01:14:37,650 --> 01:14:40,070
the center of the country

773
01:14:40,070 --> 01:14:42,050
and the

774
01:14:42,050 --> 01:14:43,470
coastal elites

775
01:14:43,470 --> 01:14:45,530
are completely out of the picture.

776
01:14:46,190 --> 01:14:47,510
It's nice.

777
01:14:48,830 --> 01:14:49,310
And it's also,

778
01:14:49,670 --> 01:14:51,590
pardon me, as someone who lives on the East Coast,

779
01:14:51,730 --> 01:14:53,730
it's not that far from

780
01:14:53,730 --> 01:14:54,950
New York.

781
01:14:55,710 --> 01:14:58,050
And I travel to these so-called

782
01:14:58,050 --> 01:15:00,510
places,

783
01:15:00,510 --> 01:15:02,710
I guess Bitcoin hubs,

784
01:15:02,850 --> 01:15:03,450
if you will,

785
01:15:04,190 --> 01:15:06,030
whether it's in Nashville,

786
01:15:06,030 --> 01:15:13,590
pub key in new york some of these other spots and and yes there's these are nice venues for

787
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:21,670
for speech for talks and conversations but the actual work is not happening there right these

788
01:15:21,670 --> 01:15:28,530
it's it's the actual work is happening where you guys are in that in that stretch from all the way

789
01:15:28,530 --> 01:15:32,850
north from Michigan down, you know, past Missouri.

790
01:15:33,850 --> 01:15:38,170
I think even all the way down into Texas with the Beef Initiative

791
01:15:38,170 --> 01:15:39,310
and some of that work.

792
01:15:41,210 --> 01:15:42,030
Yeah, I do.

793
01:15:42,170 --> 01:15:47,310
I do have this short-term goal for this Missouri, I guess, I mean,

794
01:15:47,310 --> 01:15:49,270
it's still long-term because it's going to take a couple of years

795
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:54,110
to get off the ground and be like a regular thing that's happening

796
01:15:54,110 --> 01:16:08,580
to connect Kansas City and St Louis so people can have all these Bitcoin goods But i want to do the same thing with connecting um i think it called the space out in denver to uh the

797
01:16:08,580 --> 01:16:14,460
bitcoin park down in nashville because kansas city's exactly eight hours in the middle of both

798
01:16:14,460 --> 01:16:22,480
of those so we can have these these trade routes that work off of each other um and

799
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:46,980
And I really just I really think that we can have these these individual citadels and the meshed just being this less frequent, but regularly inter intercommunication interoperability system where, oh, maybe some somebody in Tennessee orange pills, a guy making moonshine off off grid.

800
01:16:46,980 --> 01:16:55,000
and somebody in Denver has somebody making, I don't know, whatever cannabis products they're

801
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:59,960
making and we can be in the middle. And at some point when they meet in Kansas city,

802
01:17:00,440 --> 01:17:05,960
the people go back to Denver with their moonshine. The people go back to Tennessee with their

803
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:10,260
cannabis products and maybe both of them walk away with a little bit of my lamb or pork or

804
01:17:10,260 --> 01:17:16,280
whatever and have these, these hubs like that and have these regular events like Nakamoto town and

805
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:19,940
Lake Satoshi, where we're having these, this other cross pollination.

806
01:17:22,460 --> 01:17:27,920
Love that. Can't wait for this to become even more real than it is. I mean, you're already

807
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:34,760
making it real, Augie, you and all the others that you mentioned, but it's lots to look forward to.

808
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:40,380
All right. So Augie, we've talked about you, the farmer, the regenerative farmer, and how you're

809
01:17:40,380 --> 01:17:43,640
building out all of that, the Mesh to Dell.

810
01:17:44,260 --> 01:17:47,040
I guess the one thing, actually, before we move on to Nostro,

811
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,000
anything else on the farming or Mesh to Dell side that you think we've missed?

812
01:17:51,740 --> 01:17:54,740
You want to cover before we start talking about Augie,

813
01:17:54,820 --> 01:17:56,860
the software developer who's working on Nostro?

814
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,040
No, I mean, I really would just say, like, if you're going to a Bitcoin meetup,

815
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,100
you should try to sell something at it.

816
01:18:05,780 --> 01:18:09,080
Take the time to figure out what it is, because Bitcoin is hard money.

817
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:14,680
but like offer the best product that you can try to figure out figure out what you can because

818
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:20,420
you're going to learn a lot from just interacting with people at an additional layer of not just

819
01:18:20,420 --> 01:18:25,960
getting beers and talking about number go up stuff you're going to be like hey what do you actually

820
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:30,120
want to what is going to make you part with some of that bitcoin oh now i have to work harder i

821
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:35,880
have to show proof of work to to to get to get that out of your hands and then they they they

822
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:40,100
also have their products and you guys all start start trading amongst each other i think it's

823
01:18:40,100 --> 01:18:43,900
so valuable to have those types of relationships on top of your friendships

824
01:18:43,900 --> 01:18:53,180
yeah absolutely all right so let's talk about nostril uh what are you is there one project

825
01:18:53,180 --> 01:19:00,060
that you focused on or are there multiple ones uh there's not really one specific one i've kind of

826
01:19:00,060 --> 01:19:07,820
been just trying to help out as like uh the devops engineer in nostr um the one thing that i've just

827
01:19:07,820 --> 01:19:16,280
been i just kind of got wrapped up a little bit today was um budabit which is using i don't i don't

828
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:25,320
own or run budabit but budabit is a nostr dev uh nostr git client and um arian um arian and i

829
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:33,140
talking last year. I was mostly just consulting him. He came up with this new protocol called

830
01:19:33,140 --> 01:19:40,580
Loom based off our conversations and talking and working with each other. And it's more of like a

831
01:19:40,580 --> 01:19:46,620
arbitrary compute via Noster. And then he further whittled it down to this Hive thing.

832
01:19:46,620 --> 01:19:55,560
So I've implemented that onto BudaBit, and it is so we can have CICD pipelines or GitHub Actions.

833
01:19:56,060 --> 01:20:02,840
I don't know if anyone noticed yesterday, but GitHub Actions was actually down for at least three hours in America.

834
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:14,800
and so like the ability to run your NosterGit based repositories builds on Noster and anyone

835
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:22,680
can spin up like the DVM sort of spec they could run these runners and then you don't have to make

836
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:28,680
any changes to like your github workflow if you're gonna migrate over from that and they they'll run

837
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:35,400
and you just like pay a cash you invoice let's say it takes uh a minute to run and you paid like

838
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:43,040
100 sats in cash you okay you get your refund 40 sats back in cash you whenever that's done um so

839
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:52,580
that like having decentralized git workers um or pipelines on top of nostor is something that i

840
01:20:52,580 --> 01:21:00,440
Like just got wrapped up and really excited to see the development, the DevOps space in Nostra Bloom.

841
01:21:03,140 --> 01:21:06,220
And Arjen is a Nostra developer, correct?

842
01:21:06,300 --> 01:21:09,240
And he's built this thing called Loom, you said?

843
01:21:09,300 --> 01:21:09,600
Yeah.

844
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:10,340
Yeah.

845
01:21:10,340 --> 01:21:16,160
It's just sort of the spec behind how do we communicate that we want work done?

846
01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:19,540
How does the worker communicate what work they can do?

847
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:20,660
Things like that.

848
01:21:20,660 --> 01:21:29,020
how would a non-technical user right who's in who's in nostril either because

849
01:21:29,020 --> 01:21:34,000
they're interested in the social media bit or they're looking for they found that you know

850
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,320
there's a nice overlap with the value for value music space with fountain being a

851
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:43,780
moving their social coordination to nostril right so they're looking for music or something like

852
01:21:43,780 --> 01:21:49,860
that right they're not developers or anything they come in and everything you just described

853
01:21:49,860 --> 01:21:53,220
how would that impact them from a user experience standpoint?

854
01:21:54,820 --> 01:21:59,540
So like a benefit to non-technical person would be like,

855
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:06,080
it's really difficult because it is specifically development focused pipelines,

856
01:22:06,220 --> 01:22:09,760
especially. But one of the things that once,

857
01:22:09,900 --> 01:22:14,300
once this gets into production I'm also working with Fran,

858
01:22:14,300 --> 01:22:22,020
the zap store guy to get reproducible builds um flagged on flagged for for whatever applications

859
01:22:22,020 --> 01:22:27,740
are there right now it's just bootstrapping off of some of the f droid assertions that things are

860
01:22:27,740 --> 01:22:35,940
reproducible but this would mean that we could have um we could have a flag or a little badge on

861
01:22:35,940 --> 01:22:42,260
on some application let's say amber on your on zap store and you it would show that it is

862
01:22:42,260 --> 01:22:48,080
reproducible or not and you could click through to see go through the back end and and it would

863
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:55,600
allow you to see okay yeah this was reproduced in the open by this user on this date at this time

864
01:22:55,600 --> 01:23:00,360
i'm planning to like hopefully at some point make that so you could do that

865
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:07,600
on the fly so if you have like a really it depends on your security profile right so like if you want

866
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:12,020
to trust that this person reproduced the build cool if not you want to run the reproducible

867
01:23:12,020 --> 01:23:18,360
build yourself and verify it right then and there you can pay for it and then okay yes it is

868
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:24,120
reproducible this exact app that i'm installing is exactly what they're offering on this app store

869
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:30,780
um there's other there's other ideas for like if you want to basically use someone else's compute

870
01:23:30,780 --> 01:23:34,280
to do any amount of work that you would want.

871
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,120
That's up to the person.

872
01:23:41,340 --> 01:23:48,560
And you've been looking into some Web of Trust-related things as well.

873
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,520
I know the NOS Fabrica water-thon that's going on,

874
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:54,840
you've been peeking in now and then.

875
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,320
Are you thinking about incorporating Web of Trust tools

876
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,520
into some of your projects on NOSTA?

877
01:24:00,780 --> 01:24:08,280
so there would be a way to do this with the loom so with loom you have to choose which worker you

878
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:18,280
want to run on um like you could uh incorporate web of trust to decide which worker you have like

879
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:22,600
if there's a worker that you start trusting because you use them more and more then maybe

880
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:28,720
you're just going to default to them um because you you're going to trust like the work that they

881
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:35,220
do is the work that they say and they're not just going to like uh you know randomly put

882
01:24:35,220 --> 01:24:43,620
inject other code into the into the uh pipeline or or something something along those lines um

883
01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:48,420
you might be able to might want to run just have workers running from people that you follow

884
01:24:48,420 --> 01:24:57,880
i'm not um i'm not super um up to date on i'm super interested on how web trust can

885
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:02,640
can impact all of this uh and the other thing that i've been looking at is how do we figure out

886
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:09,760
what how do we allow other people to possibly make releases for our software using web of trust um

887
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:17,040
what does that look like as opposed to just a whitelist of team members uh that that's something

888
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:20,620
i've been toying around in the back of my head but i haven't really put on paper yet

889
01:25:20,620 --> 01:25:35,280
Mm-hmm. Got it. Anything else you're working on on Noster? I know you've mentioned you were working on something with LSAT. LSAT is the, I guess, the de facto product manager for Darmus.

890
01:25:36,500 --> 01:25:46,640
And he has some other side product. He's become a vibe coding maestro by the look of things. So what are you working on with him?

891
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:52,820
so with him i really i just built a poc for interoperability testing it really didn't go

892
01:25:52,820 --> 01:26:00,880
much further than that um but just the idea that we can use obtaining an optadium um i forget what

893
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:05,120
the front the the python library that lets you interact with the ui i forget the name of it

894
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:21,770
but use that to just run data through a bunch of the desktop clients to verify that okay when i produce a kind one over here it looks the same over here and there to and like automate that process Um but one of the other tools that I

895
01:26:21,770 --> 01:26:27,210
was building was, is called Bodark. It's really just a client that I'm making for meetups. Um,

896
01:26:27,310 --> 01:26:36,670
the live version right now is at kcbitcoiners.com. I'm just, um, basically have like a meetup.com

897
01:26:36,670 --> 01:26:43,070
replacement where you can add events to the calendar if you're a part of the meetup um you

898
01:26:43,070 --> 01:26:50,130
could what else do i have in there i have a little bit of like a btc map i'm planning to revamp that

899
01:26:50,130 --> 01:26:59,150
with some assertions um so that we can sort of reproduce a little bit of btc map on nostr um i

900
01:26:59,150 --> 01:27:05,390
just added zap razors to that so that like at meetings we can do fundraising via the website

901
01:27:05,390 --> 01:27:12,550
for like future events that go towards the meetups treasury. And the next thing I'm trying

902
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:20,810
to put on there is like, basically, if you're a member of the meetup that you can, what is it

903
01:27:20,810 --> 01:27:26,090
called? You could put your marketplace on there so that people could like pay for goods ahead of

904
01:27:26,090 --> 01:27:30,910
time. So you'd, you'd maybe know, oh, I need to bring these five things to the meetup. And that

905
01:27:30,910 --> 01:27:36,130
would really help for this idea of going to the other meetups then they would be able to like

906
01:27:36,130 --> 01:27:40,610
pre-purchase the things and then you're like oh i'm driving four hours to st louis i need to bring

907
01:27:40,610 --> 01:27:49,950
like 10 pounds of sausage and 15 pounds of uh rack of lambs or whatever it is um just building

908
01:27:49,950 --> 01:28:00,150
out a client that's specifically for meetups as part of bdc map uh no it's it's like its own thing

909
01:28:00,150 --> 01:28:04,030
It's really just a super basic website with, you know, it has a calendar.

910
01:28:04,190 --> 01:28:10,530
It has a page for the maps because like I want people in the meetup to be able to go like go look at it.

911
01:28:10,730 --> 01:28:12,830
Basically, BTC maps embedded in it.

912
01:28:12,910 --> 01:28:26,030
But also like there's a list of like every person who's in the meetup can say, oh, this this location takes lightning and tag Bitcoin tag like seed oil free, whatever, whatever tags that they would want to add onto it.

913
01:28:26,030 --> 01:28:35,130
So it's like a community private version of Bitcoin, BTC maps that they can tag and add data to themselves.

914
01:28:35,730 --> 01:28:43,450
Oh, interesting. And he said he wanted to add assertions to it. Are those Nostra events, these assertions, or is that something else?

915
01:28:44,090 --> 01:28:52,830
Yeah, yeah, they're assertions. That's like what I'm talking about with, let's say you find this one restaurant, they start taking Bitcoin.

916
01:28:52,830 --> 01:28:56,810
but do they take Bitcoin on chain or do they only take lightning?

917
01:28:57,050 --> 01:28:59,750
So you would be able to like make an assertion for that.

918
01:28:59,750 --> 01:29:00,890
And then people could,

919
01:29:01,230 --> 01:29:03,830
other people in the meetup could like attest to that.

920
01:29:04,210 --> 01:29:05,350
That is true or false,

921
01:29:05,450 --> 01:29:08,770
whatever you could add an assertion that this is like a,

922
01:29:08,770 --> 01:29:10,450
a vegan place.

923
01:29:10,770 --> 01:29:14,350
These are just arbitrary things that you could,

924
01:29:14,450 --> 01:29:15,510
you could add about,

925
01:29:15,610 --> 01:29:16,370
about the place.

926
01:29:16,370 --> 01:29:22,610
But I know the other people are working on like the ownership assertions.

927
01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:29,690
separately that i'm trying to talk with them so i don't step on toes i know nathan day uh

928
01:29:29,690 --> 01:29:37,750
the creator of btc map he uh he has the attestations custom nip that's out there uh and

929
01:29:37,750 --> 01:29:44,870
these assertions you're talking about are which what event kind are they uh these assertions are

930
01:29:44,870 --> 01:29:50,290
kind of random they're just kind of random because there's no really like a nip that i

931
01:29:50,290 --> 01:29:59,170
have seen for the assertions but the attestations um the attestations i am using in the zap store

932
01:29:59,170 --> 01:30:05,810
reproducible build work i am using his nips and i've been talking with him about the btc map stuff

933
01:30:05,810 --> 01:30:14,130
on the side gotcha cool augie anything else that you think we've missed we've i think we've covered

934
01:30:14,130 --> 01:30:18,890
a lot of ground a lot of varied ground which is which is fantastic right we talked about

935
01:30:18,890 --> 01:30:22,810
this process of resilience and rebirth,

936
01:30:23,090 --> 01:30:24,470
which is regenerative farming.

937
01:30:24,750 --> 01:30:28,610
We talked about community and coordination,

938
01:30:28,850 --> 01:30:29,710
which is the mesh to Dell.

939
01:30:30,150 --> 01:30:31,770
And then we're talking about NOSTA,

940
01:30:31,870 --> 01:30:34,430
which is in some sense a base layer,

941
01:30:34,530 --> 01:30:37,030
just like soil that makes a lot of this possible.

942
01:30:37,650 --> 01:30:38,830
And Bitcoin, of course,

943
01:30:38,930 --> 01:30:41,550
Bitcoin and NOSTA both go hand in hand for this.

944
01:30:41,970 --> 01:30:43,970
Anything that you think we've missed?

945
01:30:43,970 --> 01:30:51,810
um i my dev my dev work is super abstract if you're not a developer i'm my dev stuff is not

946
01:30:51,810 --> 01:30:58,830
really interesting i think the only thing that i would say to like bitcoiners out there is

947
01:30:58,830 --> 01:31:03,850
you need to grow something if that means you have chickens or rabbits or if that just means you have

948
01:31:03,850 --> 01:31:09,290
a plant growing some peppers or whatever on your balcony even if you live in the city like having

949
01:31:09,290 --> 01:31:14,690
your hands in the soil is going to be super impactful to you. Try to get out there and touch

950
01:31:14,690 --> 01:31:21,190
grass. Try to get out there and make some sort of any amount of calories that you can for yourself.

951
01:31:21,190 --> 01:31:26,530
And even if not, get out there and try to meet the farmers that are producing your goods and try to

952
01:31:26,530 --> 01:31:36,170
find Bitcoiners who are producing that really high quality farm goods or orange pill ones that

953
01:31:36,170 --> 01:31:42,010
aren't doing that yet. So try to make an impact in the community and other ways of just,

954
01:31:42,310 --> 01:31:46,890
I buy Bitcoin and I go have beers and talk about how Bitcoin is going to be a million dollars

955
01:31:46,890 --> 01:31:54,230
someday. Yeah. I think that the days for that are, well, people could do what they want,

956
01:31:54,230 --> 01:32:00,910
but it's just not particularly constructive thing to do. But Augie, let's say someone's heard this,

957
01:32:00,910 --> 01:32:06,710
right and i think it's it's great advice to essentially touch grass but at a deeply

958
01:32:06,710 --> 01:32:11,430
philosophical level where you're having an impact but what if someone says you know what this

959
01:32:11,430 --> 01:32:17,250
mesh to doll stuff this uh denim road or whatever it ends up being called uh i'm not i'm not too

960
01:32:17,250 --> 01:32:24,010
far away i'm i'm in i probably i'm in the belt or close to that belt uh i want to get involved

961
01:32:24,010 --> 01:32:32,530
what how can they uh i guess how could they reach out to you or how would you direct them someone

962
01:32:32,530 --> 01:32:43,010
who wants to build alongside with you yeah um for sure hit me up on nostr um we have like a bunch of

963
01:32:43,010 --> 01:32:48,510
people within like i like to talk on signal so we'll probably move over to that until white noise

964
01:32:48,510 --> 01:32:51,070
gets built out relatively quickly.

965
01:32:51,550 --> 01:32:55,910
But I think that, yeah, if you want to work together,

966
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:58,110
like this Bodark tool that I'm talking about,

967
01:32:58,350 --> 01:33:01,970
I made it so it doesn't require you to have to have

968
01:33:01,970 --> 01:33:04,010
a virtual private server to deploy.

969
01:33:04,230 --> 01:33:07,030
It's a static website that you can spin up

970
01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:09,050
and you just can fork my repo

971
01:33:09,050 --> 01:33:12,210
and there's already one meetup that's using this

972
01:33:12,210 --> 01:33:14,050
on top of our meetup.

973
01:33:14,370 --> 01:33:16,210
And it doesn't require any payment.

974
01:33:16,210 --> 01:33:23,910
Like if you want to put it into an S3 bucket, it might cost you three bucks to run on top of whatever domain you want to run.

975
01:33:24,010 --> 01:33:37,550
So we can get you started on building up your own local circular economy and having not having to pay hundreds of dollars to meetup.com just so you guys can have a calendar to cooperate on.

976
01:33:37,550 --> 01:33:51,170
And yeah, we'll talk more about if it's the agriculture side of things, the Bitcoin side of things, the Nostra side of things, like however you want to build, get in touch on Nostra, please.

977
01:33:52,650 --> 01:33:54,670
Yes. Awesome.

978
01:33:55,570 --> 01:33:57,170
So you heard it here, folks.

979
01:33:57,470 --> 01:34:03,190
And I'll put any relevant information, any links that Augie talked about or he's going to send me.

980
01:34:03,330 --> 01:34:04,470
I'll put those in the show notes.

981
01:34:04,470 --> 01:34:06,010
So you should be able to reach out.

982
01:34:06,010 --> 01:34:10,150
I'll link his end pub so you can find him on Nostra as well.

983
01:34:10,570 --> 01:34:13,750
So, Augie, thank you so much for sharing all of this,

984
01:34:14,090 --> 01:34:16,750
really rooting for everything you're building.

985
01:34:16,990 --> 01:34:17,870
It's super exciting.

986
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:20,430
I know it can feel like early days sometimes,

987
01:34:20,430 --> 01:34:27,190
but I think between you and so many others who are working on the Mesh Tadel,

988
01:34:27,370 --> 01:34:30,410
working on these regenerative agriculture ideas,

989
01:34:30,550 --> 01:34:33,610
and just sovereign tools more broadly, right?

990
01:34:33,890 --> 01:34:35,630
Nostra developers, Bitcoin developers.

991
01:34:36,010 --> 01:34:43,370
uh it's there is so much to look forward to uh and the number go down that seems to be happening

992
01:34:43,370 --> 01:34:52,610
as we're recording uh it is becomes irrelevant right definitely we can build in the bear markets

993
01:34:52,610 --> 01:35:02,010
indeed and thank you to our live stream audience for listening and for your generous zaps and the

994
01:35:02,010 --> 01:35:10,050
vibrant conversation. If you are listening to this recording, as always, notice what you didn't hear

995
01:35:10,050 --> 01:35:16,770
today. You didn't hear me shilling a green powder made of industrial sludge. And you didn't hear me

996
01:35:16,770 --> 01:35:23,630
selling pills for problems you don't actually have. I don't do that here. On the lightning-laced

997
01:35:23,630 --> 01:35:31,830
airwaves, the only sponsor is you. If you found value in this conversation, if it gave you a new

998
01:35:31,830 --> 01:35:38,650
mental model, a moment of clarity, or just a respite from the noise, then please consider

999
01:35:38,650 --> 01:35:44,810
returning the value. You can stream sats as you listen on Fountain, or you can become a monthly

1000
01:35:44,810 --> 01:35:53,130
subscriber to keep the signal strong. But for those who want to shape the show, you can boast in.

1001
01:35:53,630 --> 01:36:00,130
The mic is open for next week. If you want the final word, or if you want the executive producer

1002
01:36:00,130 --> 01:36:07,390
your slot with your dissenting sats. The board is yours. Until then, stay sovereign.