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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses on the intersection of Nostra and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers, doers and plebs.

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All right, we are live. Welcome, gentle pioneers.

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to the lightning-laced airwaves.

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Today is Friday, the 4th of December,

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and it is episode 140 of Plep Chain Radio.

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It is 11.06 a.m. on the east coast of the United States

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at the time of recording.

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We have a fun one ahead of you today.

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Our guest is Aaron of Essex,

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the man behind New Music Nudge Unit,

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heroically steering unmoored musicians to the shores of sovereignty to Bitcoin and to Noster.

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And a reminder, folks, if you are listening to the show on Apple or Spotify,

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first of all, thank you for listening.

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But I would urge you to hit pause and switch over to the Fountain Podcasting app

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where you can earn some sats and support the value for value revolution

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while you listen.

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And while you're there, if you hit that subscribe button, we would genuinely appreciate it.

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Your support goes a long way in keeping our mics warm and this podcast ad-free.

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The show is streamed live on Zap.Stream and any other Nostra client that supports streaming,

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such as Amethyst, Nostra, Fountain, and Primal.

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Actually, there are a few more.

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There's Nostria and a few others.

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Anything that supports NIP 53.

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July 18, the sequel to my first novel, 24, is now available for purchase.

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This is not a book about Bitcoin.

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It's a soaring philosophical epic disguised as an action thriller that talks about the world Bitcoin makes possible.

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This is the most important and meaningful work I have ever created, and I do hope you check it out.

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The link is in the show notes.

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And if you are reading July 18 and you haven't read 24 and you're wondering how to get your hands on 24,

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well, I would urge you to hold off for another two weeks because I am working on a second edition of 24,

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and that should be out by mid-December sometime.

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The Nosfabrica Wattathon is underway with the third group call taking place earlier this week.

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We've had some excellent discussions so far on Web of Trust, and we're inviting builders, philosophers, marketers, you name it, from all walks of Noster and Bitcoin to participate and build out open source Web of Trust solutions with us.

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These can be at the protocol layer, dealing with the underlying algorithm and delivery mechanism of trust scores, or at the application layer, such as a curated list of musicians to improve their discoverability on Noster.

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The prize pool is 50 million sats, or 50 million bitcoins, as the kids these days like to say.

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And this, I believe, is the largest Bitcoin prize pool that I'm aware of in recent memory.

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You can find out more by going to nosfabrica.com slash whatathon.

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That's W-O-T-A-T-H-O-N.

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And for our sermon today, it is The Nudge.

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There's a tension that any bitcoiner and Nostrich who's been around for long enough

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has had to deal with when they step into the outside world,

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one that I certainly have felt acutely.

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On the one hand, there's the realization of the utter futility of trying to orange and purple pill normies,

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which leads to the eventual conclusion that it's better to be a lighthouse than a tugboat.

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Be a beacon through your actions rather than through your words.

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The latter can feel like banging your head against a brick wall at times.

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A lighthouse doesn't chase ships.

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It stands where it stands.

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it radiates. It says, here is solid ground, here is danger, and here is a way home if you want it.

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The ship still has to steer. The captain still has to choose. That has always felt right for

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Bitcoin, for Noster. These are voluntary opt-in systems. They're built on consent and curiosity.

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Nobody wants to be dragged out of fiat like a car being towed from the wrong parking lot.

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The point is to step out of the vehicle on your own legs and realize you can walk.

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But to be honest, most people never even see the light.

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They are down in the boiler room of their lives.

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The glare of notifications.

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The constant hum of like, subscribe, follow.

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Musicians grinding for fractions of a penny per stream.

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Creators pouring heart and soul into timelines that forget them in a day.

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Even if the lighthouse is blazing on the horizon, their world is a narrow tunnel lit by apps and algorithms

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Sometimes, before a person can respond to a beacon, they need a nudge

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Not a shove, not a guilt trip, a nudge

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A friend who says, here, let me show you how to get a lightning wallet on your phone

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A little QR code on the bar next to the tip jar

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Try this link, a low-stakes experiment

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A tiny first step that proves the portal is real

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The nudge is small in the moment

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But it can tilt the entire trajectory of a life

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Change the orientation by two degrees

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And given enough time, you end up in a different continent

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A different career

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A different sense of what is possible

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A lighthouse is a symbol

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An orientation in the storm

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The tugboat is raw force, dragging you where you did not choose to go.

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The nudge lives somewhere in between.

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It's a hand placed lightly on the shoulder, turning your gaze to the horizon.

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It says, look, there, see that light?

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You might want to steer towards it.

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And this is especially true in culture.

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Because music is so intimate,

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it. Your favorite song knows things about you that you have never told another human being.

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To ask a musician to change how they get paid, how they reach fans, how they survive, is to ask

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them to rewire the nervous system of their life. That is not something you yell at people on Twitter.

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That is something you walk with them through. So tonight, we're talking about the art of the nudge.

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How do you gently guide artists out of the attention casino and into a place where sound and sats move in the same direction?

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How do you help bands and venues and listeners cross that strange little bridge from,

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I heard about Bitcoin once, to, I just got paid for my song, directly, instantly, from someone who cared?

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There is still value in being a lighthouse.

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There is still value in shining your light brightly.

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But there are also pioneers who are quietly building the small boats, the ones who row out to the lost ships, knock on the hull and say, mate, there's a different way to sail.

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Let me show you.

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And we have one such champion with us on the show today.

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Aaron of Essex, welcome to Plep Chain Radio.

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Thank you so much for having me, Avi.

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And before we start, I mean, can I just give a round of applause for that sermon?

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That was one of the most beautiful things and considered things I've ever heard in my life, Avi.

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So hats off to you, sir.

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Well, I appreciate you saying that, Aaron.

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Well, let's start here.

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You're a bone to pick with you, Aaron.

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Maybe not a big bone, but a small one.

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Your profile on Nostra says Bitcoin is punk. I, sir, am of the belief that Bitcoin is metal. What gives?

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I think metal, punk, I think they're all born from the same place.

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You know, it's all kind of part of that anti-establishment feeling.

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So, but yeah, I mean, punk is probably more the attitude that I have when I think about Bitcoin.

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simply from the point of view

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it kind of doesn't really care

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doesn't really care what you look like

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whether you've got tattoos, spiky hair

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whether you've only got one limb

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it doesn't matter

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I think maybe metal

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or certainly my appreciation of metal at the time

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was a bit more kind of like long curly hair

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wearing makeup in the 80s maybe

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I don't know

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maybe that's just a cultural thing

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or that's just a timing thing

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but yeah, if you want it to be metal

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it sure can be metal.

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Now, and also that was tongue in cheek, Aaron.

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I am aware, I think they both,

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both punk and metal embody, in my mind anyway,

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that sort of raw, untamed energy,

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the anti-establishment spirit

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that I think a lot of us are here because of, right?

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Like this is how we stick it to the man,

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by taking control.

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100%.

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And it's at the end of the day,

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it's a messaging system, isn't it? You know, Bitcoin and music tells stories. It's a kind

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of messaging system in its own right. So the fact that we've got Bitcoin supporting musicians

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and musicians now supporting Bitcoin I think it a beautiful figure of eight that we can all dance to at the same time you know Indeed And then you switch you tilt it horizontally and you get infinity

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Yeah.

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So, Aaron, take us back to pre-Bitcoin Essex.

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Who were you before Sats and Noster entered the chat?

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Promoter, fan, troublemaker?

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What was your relationship with music and live gigs?

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I'm just a fan really, Avi. I was someone that was brought up in the 90s, which some people could argue the 90s really was that last bastion of rock and roll, where we would actually go to the shops and purchase our CDs and stuff like that.

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So I used to spend probably half of my weekly salary on buying CDs and records and things like that.

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I left school in 94, got my first email address in 94 as well.

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The internet was all of a sudden a big thing.

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And it come from me as someone that never used computers at school.

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We didn't have computers at school really.

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So I never used them.

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But my brother was heavily into IT.

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So I was playing, you know, the Commodores and the Ataris and all of those things during the 80s.

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So when the 90s come around, I got my own personal computer and the internet.

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You know, it was just, yeah, that period of time where we wasn't quite aware that the new world that we was entering

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and that the internet would shake up everything.

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You know, I still remember back in like 95, 96, where people were just saying, oh, what does the internet do?

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It doesn't actually do anything. You know, there was people skeptical on it back then.

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So, you know, I was just a guy working in the city, spending many hours commuting in and out of London, listening to music.

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Yeah. And like I say, Napster came out in 97.

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So when I realised I could stream all this amazing music or certainly download it, you know, using Napster and those kind of things, it was kind of a game changer.

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But even I wasn't aware of what that would actually do to the music industry in terms of the tightening of the noose of artists, you know, because it still seems to me that it's a very elitist thing where you've still only,

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got you know the top 0.1 percent of musicians actually earning any money at all do you know

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what i mean certainly certainly enough to kind of get by whereas 99.9 percent of the rest of them

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um you know they're kind of doing it as a side hustle you know so early aaron was always a

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massive music fan um and after a little stint in the city i worked as a hairdresser i still work

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as a hairdresser now I've still got clients now um you know I've been a hairdresser for 20 odd years

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um and in that time you get to work with artists you get to work with musicians

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I've met a lot a lot of musicians along the way and you know when I discovered that music was

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uh should we say being assisted by bitcoin and that these rails were being built um me as a

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massive kind of bitcoiner bitcoin maxi um i just saw it as a perfect opportunity just to help out

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all of these you know extremely talented people that i know um you know help them out with a a

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savings um like a savings vehicle first of all you know i wouldn't go too maxi on them to begin

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with just that you know um if if if you don't get this you know don't worry it might be too early

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for you but you know your kids are gonna love it kind of kind of thing you know so yeah that's

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pretty much pretty much me up until modern day now but yeah like I say I just was a fan

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yeah I you know I'm a little biased myself uh Aaron uh I was all my teenagers happened in the

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90s. And I feel like that was a, it was a point in culture that I don't know if we're anywhere

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close to reclaiming. For several reasons, the Cold War had ended in the early 90s. And 9-11

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didn't happen for another 10 years. So it was this almost this peaceful period in some sense.

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and there was a lot of hope.

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Minds were not corrupted by algorithms

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because the internet hadn't yet become a thing.

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But it was early days on the internet.

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There was a lot of hope then, right?

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And the internet felt like a warm place

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of possibilities and discovery.

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And yeah, you have things like Napster for sure, right?

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I was using Napster in the late-ish 90s,

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the second half of the 90s.

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I never thought about things like, well, how do we actually compensate the artists?

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I was just glad that I didn't have to hunt for cassette tapes anymore.

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And I could download music on dial-up internet, which would take an hour per song, usually.

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But it felt like it was earned at the end of it.

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But do you look back at those days and then where we are now, right?

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It just feels with social media where it is, I don't mean Nostra particularly.

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In fact, I think Nostra harkens back to those days in some sense.

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But news cycles are about war and pestilence and despair.

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Social media is stealing your attention, stealing your eyeballs.

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Do you feel like we can ever go back to those happy days of the 90s?

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That's a really good question.

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and I think we have to look at our teenagers.

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I've got two teenage daughters who, that's all they know,

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is the internet how it is now.

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But I do sense there is a little bit of pushback from these certain teenagers.

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Can we, you know, the genies escape the bottle, so to speak, hasn't it?

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So can we kind of, you know, put it all back in the bottle?

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I don't know.

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But it's like what David Bowie says.

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You know, it's exhilarating and terrifying at the same time.

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And look at all of the extra connections, you know, we've all made through Bitcoin and through the Internet.

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That, you know, had the Internet never been invented, we would never have made in a million years.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So, like every tool, you know, a tool can be used for harm and it can be used for hope, you know.

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And I'm just trying to use the tools at our disposal, you know, just to shine a little bit of light and shine a little bit of hope on, you know, the people that I love and respect and that live around me, you know.

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So, yeah, I'm not sure we would want to kind of put it all back in the bottle.

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What I'm striving for is for all of that kind of attention grabbing stuff to kind of become irrelevant, you know.

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And that is the hope of the value verse. Actually, let's talk about that for a second, because I was reading your website, bitcoinsx.co.uk, and you brought up a point which I think several of us have been grappling with, which is what the hell do you even call this thing?

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there's no name that's sticking is it value verse is it demu which sounds demu is my the least

216
00:18:27,586 --> 00:18:33,766
favorite of of the names for me by the way uh or is it value for value music which is descriptive

217
00:18:33,766 --> 00:18:39,586
but a bit of a mouthful like do you think we're going to converge on a name that that actually

218
00:18:39,586 --> 00:18:46,066
sticks and is pithy and yeah well i'd like to put it out to the chat you know what does people

219
00:18:46,066 --> 00:18:50,926
prefer i mean like when you're researching any kind of name whether it's a business name or

220
00:18:50,926 --> 00:18:56,566
whether it's a new handle, you know, typing it into Google and figuring out what Google says.

221
00:18:57,046 --> 00:18:59,826
You know, when I put all three of those options into Google,

222
00:19:00,606 --> 00:19:05,566
the value verse doesn't really return anything that gives you any kind of inkling what it is.

223
00:19:06,106 --> 00:19:08,326
Demu certainly doesn't give you any return.

224
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The only one that currently does is V4V Music.

225
00:19:12,066 --> 00:19:17,306
You know, the AI on there will basically tell you this is a new music economy

226
00:19:17,306 --> 00:19:22,906
that will aim to support artists and publish independently

227
00:19:22,906 --> 00:19:25,546
in a self-sovereign way, et cetera, et cetera.

228
00:19:25,726 --> 00:19:31,766
So yeah, it's hard to know what to call it,

229
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but we do need to converge on something.

230
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I mean, Valueverse is something I think Adam Curry

231
00:19:37,266 --> 00:19:40,026
originally kind of coined,

232
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and I called the first show that I did back in May,

233
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we called that Into the Valueverse

234
00:19:46,126 --> 00:19:51,626
because we was intrinsically aware that when you're going into normie land,

235
00:19:52,226 --> 00:19:57,426
you don't want to lead with a Bitcoin first name.

236
00:19:57,426 --> 00:19:58,246
Do you know what I mean?

237
00:19:58,386 --> 00:20:06,646
We want to kind of lead with something that kind of puts Bitcoin underneath it

238
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or behind it or in the weeds a little bit.

239
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Do you know what I mean?

240
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because of obviously all the negative connotations

241
00:20:13,886 --> 00:20:16,806
that normies have heard about Bitcoin over the years.

242
00:20:17,486 --> 00:20:19,926
You know, we don't really want to call it Bitcoin music

243
00:20:19,926 --> 00:20:23,306
because we don't want to tap into their prejudices

244
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that have been fed to them, you know,

245
00:20:26,266 --> 00:20:29,806
for obviously over a decade from mainstream media.

246
00:20:30,106 --> 00:20:32,106
You know, the usual stuff like, you know,

247
00:20:32,186 --> 00:20:36,186
Bitcoin kills babies and creates earthquakes

248
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and things like that.

249
00:20:37,306 --> 00:20:54,912
So yeah it is important that we figure out a name I mean just it be nice for it to just you know when you describing Bitcoin you just I just call it money You know it be nice to just call it music Do you know what I mean It would be so much easier

250
00:20:55,092 --> 00:20:56,872
But, yeah, we have got to figure that out.

251
00:20:56,932 --> 00:20:59,052
I don't know what they reckon in the chat, though,

252
00:20:59,192 --> 00:21:01,832
because we've got quite a lot of people in the chat being very active

253
00:21:01,832 --> 00:21:03,672
on Zapstream, which I love to see.

254
00:21:04,252 --> 00:21:04,572
Yeah.

255
00:21:05,512 --> 00:21:09,432
So Daniel, the Daniel, has a new one.

256
00:21:09,432 --> 00:21:10,432
It's called MuseApps.

257
00:21:13,232 --> 00:21:14,092
I like that.

258
00:21:14,972 --> 00:21:25,232
I think Heather referenced something that our friend Roger 9000, everyone's favorite Bitcoin, I'd like to say.

259
00:21:26,052 --> 00:21:30,632
Roger 9000 recently said, I think he called it sats for sound.

260
00:21:31,412 --> 00:21:32,292
I think that's what it is.

261
00:21:32,292 --> 00:21:36,992
And he was talking more about creating a guild for artists.

262
00:21:37,892 --> 00:21:40,292
So there are some interesting names out there.

263
00:21:40,372 --> 00:21:41,652
They're all a bit of a mouthful.

264
00:21:41,872 --> 00:21:43,672
I mean, they're descriptive and they're correct.

265
00:21:43,672 --> 00:21:45,752
but I don't know if they'll stick.

266
00:21:46,472 --> 00:21:47,952
Yeah, no, neither do I.

267
00:21:48,032 --> 00:21:51,512
That's why I'm, you know, kind of using all three at the moment

268
00:21:51,512 --> 00:21:53,512
in the hope that something comes up.

269
00:21:53,872 --> 00:21:56,272
I mean, Joe Martin had one similar to Rogers.

270
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He said, sats not streams, which is kind of something similar, I suppose.

271
00:22:04,672 --> 00:22:11,332
But yeah, I think, you know, maybe, I don't know,

272
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maybe like we get to a stage where we don't even need to say that it's different and we we push it

273
00:22:18,292 --> 00:22:26,152
into the new world or we nudge enough people into it that self-publishing in a sovereign way is is

274
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the norm and you know my our aim is to obviously topple spotify from being the top dog when it

275
00:22:35,032 --> 00:22:43,292
comes to kind of you know anything streaming like you know do enough artists care so you brought up

276
00:22:43,292 --> 00:22:49,772
spotify and actually let me take a step back aaron uh and just give some background the first time i

277
00:22:49,772 --> 00:22:57,612
came across you was a week ago i think at bitfest um and and shame on me for that because after

278
00:22:57,612 --> 00:23:03,032
reading about you you've been doing remarkable work here but you were emceeing the value for

279
00:23:03,032 --> 00:23:09,792
value music event at BitFest, which was fantastic. And I think apart from the music itself, which is

280
00:23:09,792 --> 00:23:18,252
great, the thing that stood out for me was Nostra worked flawlessly on that event. I mean,

281
00:23:18,332 --> 00:23:24,872
there were people who were jumping across five different apps on Nostra, and the stream was

282
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working, Zaps were working, everything was working. So that was my first introduction to

283
00:23:30,632 --> 00:23:36,732
to you, Aaron. And I think one thing that and you and the reason I bring this up is you brought up

284
00:23:36,732 --> 00:23:42,572
Spotify in when you were introducing one of the bands and you just you were talking about your

285
00:23:42,572 --> 00:23:49,372
distaste for them. So my question to you is, you know, we have obviously we have a few musicians

286
00:23:49,372 --> 00:23:55,452
who try to step out of that Spotify because they recognize the issues with it. There's obviously

287
00:23:55,452 --> 00:24:01,912
Ainsley Costello, Just Loud, and others who've talked at length about all the issues with

288
00:24:01,912 --> 00:24:07,652
Spotify. But I mean, we're going to need a mass migration event, right? And for that, we need

289
00:24:07,652 --> 00:24:13,472
some kind of collective realization from musicians that this is just not okay. This is pure

290
00:24:13,472 --> 00:24:19,072
exploitation. Do you see that happening? Oh, yeah, for sure. Especially in the grassroots

291
00:24:19,072 --> 00:24:28,792
level because I think because musicians are the ones that have been in the industry for you know

292
00:24:28,792 --> 00:24:37,872
a few years they're very distrustful of you know kind of any opportunities that come their way

293
00:24:37,872 --> 00:24:43,392
they've been kind of stitched up and screwed over so many times in their career that I think we have

294
00:24:43,392 --> 00:24:50,872
to get like the the the new guys um on board straight away and and for this to be like a

295
00:24:50,872 --> 00:24:55,592
normal route do you know what i mean because i think there is still so many artists out there

296
00:24:55,592 --> 00:25:02,652
that are still you know trying to get their record contract and trying to build up their followers on

297
00:25:02,652 --> 00:25:07,772
instagram and whatnot do you know what i mean they're trying to kind of follow that old model

298
00:25:07,772 --> 00:25:15,992
and there is a taste for you know this new way of doing things but you know without a marketing

299
00:25:15,992 --> 00:25:22,372
budget and without the kind of collateral to take on like the big guys we have to do it as a more of

300
00:25:22,372 --> 00:25:28,052
a grassroots movement and and um hopefully you know events like what we did last week at bitfest

301
00:25:28,052 --> 00:25:36,432
even though it was a majority kind of bitcoin event um hopefully by doing these live gigs and

302
00:25:36,432 --> 00:25:42,592
and live music streams and putting the videos up on normie social media,

303
00:25:43,712 --> 00:25:50,792
it would just start trickling through so much so that this will be the first thing they do.

304
00:25:50,932 --> 00:25:54,512
Because at the end of the day, they don't want the gatekeepers.

305
00:25:54,512 --> 00:26:00,912
I know what it's like for me whenever I try and log into a website or sign up for a new account to do anything.

306
00:26:01,532 --> 00:26:05,512
It's just barriers of entry. You've got to step over all the time.

307
00:26:05,512 --> 00:26:12,952
So the path of least resistance, and I know enough musicians to know that they can't be asked to kind of do all that most of the time.

308
00:26:13,072 --> 00:26:13,612
Do you know what I mean?

309
00:26:13,652 --> 00:26:15,972
They just want to play the music and it's all about the music.

310
00:26:16,232 --> 00:26:25,072
So I think once we show them how easy it is, then I think that they'll be onboarded very, very easily.

311
00:26:25,292 --> 00:26:25,752
Do you know what I mean?

312
00:26:25,752 --> 00:26:34,972
The next step really is for them to ditch Spotify, remove all their music from it and leave that sector altogether.

313
00:26:34,972 --> 00:26:43,992
you know yeah and that's where the nudge comes in and you've created the so the new let's talk

314
00:26:43,992 --> 00:26:51,232
about the new music nudge unit is that just a name for a social media account or is it an actual

315
00:26:51,232 --> 00:26:57,012
legal entity or some kind of organization that you've set up yeah no it's literally just a name

316
00:26:57,012 --> 00:27:04,172
just a name I've given um you know the social media account just so I can talk about just the

317
00:27:04,172 --> 00:27:11,192
music side of what I do you know just don't want to get involved in any of the politics or any of

318
00:27:11,192 --> 00:27:19,852
the net zero stuff that you know may happen on my Bitcoin Essex handle you know just purely for the

319
00:27:19,852 --> 00:27:28,032
music just purely to release new artists you know preview videos things like that you know just to

320
00:27:28,032 --> 00:27:33,852
kind of just keep it music simple so there's no legal entity it is just a an extra page on my

321
00:27:33,852 --> 00:27:40,532
website bitcoin essex there's no legal entity in any of that because i don't believe any any any

322
00:27:40,532 --> 00:27:46,112
any of that avi do you know what i mean i don't believe that i should register and do all that for

323
00:27:46,112 --> 00:27:52,812
this you know this is without permission you know that is the punk element of what bitcoin is and um

324
00:27:52,812 --> 00:27:55,972
Yeah, I want to kind of stay true to those values, you know.

325
00:27:57,252 --> 00:28:01,792
And the goal of New Music Nudge Unit is to find musicians

326
00:28:01,792 --> 00:28:05,632
who are potentially on the fence and give them that little nudge

327
00:28:05,632 --> 00:28:07,972
into this world, correct?

328
00:28:08,652 --> 00:28:10,332
Correct, 100%.

329
00:28:10,332 --> 00:28:14,152
Like I say, the majority of musicians that I've got so far,

330
00:28:14,552 --> 00:28:21,732
they're not necessarily interested in the tech or the journey

331
00:28:21,732 --> 00:28:26,172
or the orange pill or the Bitcoin or the 21 million

332
00:28:26,172 --> 00:28:29,512
or the censorship, they just want their music heard.

333
00:28:30,092 --> 00:28:33,972
So I don't necessarily waste time with them

334
00:28:33,972 --> 00:28:36,592
on orange pilling them about all the virtues

335
00:28:36,592 --> 00:28:39,372
because when they hang around with me long enough,

336
00:28:39,832 --> 00:28:41,432
they just kind of see it.

337
00:28:41,592 --> 00:28:42,212
Do you know what I mean?

338
00:28:42,212 --> 00:28:45,652
And I like to think that a lot of their attitude as well

339
00:28:45,652 --> 00:28:48,052
is aligned to what we're doing.

340
00:28:48,512 --> 00:28:51,152
So yeah, that really is the goal.

341
00:28:51,152 --> 00:28:57,852
the new music nudge unit is just there to say if you want to dip your toe in cost you nothing

342
00:28:57,852 --> 00:29:05,052
all you need to do is give me an mp3 a bit of artwork and i'll post it and i'll let people know

343
00:29:05,052 --> 00:29:12,032
because these artists don't know that there's a a growing community of of people listeners fans

344
00:29:12,032 --> 00:29:18,792
music podcasts and now shows they don't understand that that's already built they don't understand

345
00:29:18,792 --> 00:29:21,712
that when I self-host one of their songs,

346
00:29:22,092 --> 00:29:23,592
I publish it once

347
00:29:23,592 --> 00:29:28,592
and it goes to about 100 different podcasting 2.0 apps.

348
00:29:29,112 --> 00:29:31,132
I publish it once, it goes everywhere.

349
00:29:31,672 --> 00:29:34,232
Now, normally they would have to publish it to Spotify

350
00:29:34,232 --> 00:29:36,552
or to their distributor, their label,

351
00:29:36,892 --> 00:29:39,012
and it would go like one or two places.

352
00:29:39,632 --> 00:29:43,952
And it's, you know, that Fiat legacy system.

353
00:29:44,352 --> 00:29:46,332
With this being open source,

354
00:29:46,332 --> 00:29:56,812
I like to think that I can open their eyes to kind of like this new world that they had no clue that existed before, you know?

355
00:29:57,272 --> 00:30:00,372
Yeah, that is the beauty of an open protocol like RSS, right?

356
00:30:00,412 --> 00:30:05,092
I think it's a magic that you actually have experience and you can't be told about it.

357
00:30:05,352 --> 00:30:09,212
Like you put something out there and before you know it, it's on like 20 different apps.

358
00:30:10,012 --> 00:30:13,632
In some sense, you know, it's similar to Nostra for notes, right?

359
00:30:13,632 --> 00:30:20,232
you post a note on Primal and then it shows up on Darmus and on Nostar and Amethyst and all these

360
00:30:20,232 --> 00:30:24,832
other things. It's a similar kind of feeling where you actually need to experience it.

361
00:30:25,772 --> 00:30:31,272
So this would work. I mean, there are some fear, obviously, apart from the Spotify's of the world,

362
00:30:31,432 --> 00:30:37,312
there are fiat problems with music such as, I mean, other gatekeepers, right, such as record

363
00:30:37,312 --> 00:30:43,172
labels. What you're saying, I suspect, would work for independent musicians. What if it's a musician

364
00:30:43,172 --> 00:30:44,712
who signed up with the label.

365
00:30:45,052 --> 00:30:48,392
I don't think you could just put,

366
00:30:48,732 --> 00:30:50,172
I mean, you could certainly do it, right?

367
00:30:50,212 --> 00:30:52,292
Put it up on RSS and it'll show up.

368
00:30:52,452 --> 00:30:55,252
But at some point, the record label might get wind of that

369
00:30:55,252 --> 00:30:57,092
and come after you.

370
00:30:58,012 --> 00:31:00,132
Yeah, that's a great point.

371
00:31:01,192 --> 00:31:02,552
At the end of the day,

372
00:31:03,392 --> 00:31:06,712
these record labels have to adapt or they will die

373
00:31:06,712 --> 00:31:25,598
because I do have one artist in the Valueverse that has got a record label and he in particular asked me to reach out to them and I spoke to them and they asked me about what I was doing and they completely gave us the okay

374
00:31:26,138 --> 00:31:31,658
You know, they gave me their best wishes to do so, to publish all the music and to send all the

375
00:31:31,658 --> 00:31:38,058
money to the artist. I don't know whether that's because they didn't quite understand the power of

376
00:31:38,058 --> 00:31:41,938
what this is coming essentially that they're signing their own death warrant you know what i

377
00:31:41,938 --> 00:31:49,038
mean but i do think when you look at labels and you look at bands and and the usage rights that

378
00:31:49,038 --> 00:31:57,178
most bands sign away their usage for for everything um i think these record labels will

379
00:31:57,178 --> 00:32:05,458
will probably have to figure out a way that they can let's go back to napster it took spotify 20

380
00:32:05,458 --> 00:32:11,378
years after the naps the disruption to really kind of take back the entire industry again

381
00:32:11,378 --> 00:32:18,458
what we're doing over here with self-hosting music and self-publishing music is we're making

382
00:32:18,458 --> 00:32:27,638
that system completely obsolete so they won't necessarily be able to get away with taking 99

383
00:32:27,638 --> 00:32:35,698
percent of the artist's royalties anymore do you know what i mean so we'll in a in a way even if the

384
00:32:35,698 --> 00:32:41,858
record companies kind of you know congregate together and they kind of you know put all their

385
00:32:41,858 --> 00:32:48,758
money towards all they can possibly do is give a better deal for the artists do you know what i mean

386
00:32:48,758 --> 00:32:55,438
because having this as a viable alternative why would an artist go yeah okay i'll sign this deal

387
00:32:55,438 --> 00:32:59,118
where you have 99% of everything I do for the rest of my life.

388
00:32:59,818 --> 00:33:00,458
Do you know what I mean?

389
00:33:00,618 --> 00:33:02,698
And that music that's already out there,

390
00:33:02,798 --> 00:33:04,938
we've already either bought it all on CD,

391
00:33:05,158 --> 00:33:06,178
we've heard it all before,

392
00:33:06,358 --> 00:33:08,198
I think we have to draw a line in the sand,

393
00:33:08,318 --> 00:33:13,278
and this is where all the new music should be going from now on.

394
00:33:13,378 --> 00:33:13,858
Do you know what I mean?

395
00:33:14,158 --> 00:33:18,678
Because, of course, I would love to get Radiohead and Viagra Boys

396
00:33:18,678 --> 00:33:21,758
and the Beater Band and Doves.

397
00:33:21,818 --> 00:33:24,098
I'd love to get all those bands over here.

398
00:33:24,098 --> 00:33:29,398
But the thing is, all of their old music is so tied up with the record labels.

399
00:33:30,678 --> 00:33:32,158
You know, what's the point?

400
00:33:32,498 --> 00:33:34,558
You know, let's concentrate on the new.

401
00:33:35,418 --> 00:33:35,538
Yeah.

402
00:33:35,978 --> 00:33:43,618
And in this system, I think there is one assumption here that doesn't fully hold up.

403
00:33:43,738 --> 00:33:44,458
And it's unfortunate.

404
00:33:45,318 --> 00:33:49,478
I'm curious to hear your perspective on it, which is you put the music out there.

405
00:33:49,618 --> 00:33:50,798
It's free and accessible.

406
00:33:50,798 --> 00:33:58,238
the assumption is the artists will get value from appreciative audiences but a lot of times these

407
00:33:58,238 --> 00:34:03,778
i mean just like back in our napster days well now we didn't even have a mechanism for compensating

408
00:34:03,778 --> 00:34:08,318
artists but as a teenager i didn't even think about it i was just happy that i i had access to

409
00:34:08,318 --> 00:34:15,959
to these songs right uh and i i suspect we're seeing a something similar now which is oh look

410
00:34:15,959 --> 00:34:23,358
free music uh why do i need to pay anyone right so because value for value is predicated on on this

411
00:34:23,358 --> 00:34:33,338
voluntary uh tipping if you will right uh of artists and are you seeing that play out though

412
00:34:33,338 --> 00:34:39,298
that artists are actually getting something in return yeah they definitely are getting something

413
00:34:39,298 --> 00:34:42,419
I suppose it's all about numbers, isn't it?

414
00:34:42,459 --> 00:34:50,919
At the end of the day, I believe the donation ratio is only roughly about 2% anyway.

415
00:34:51,818 --> 00:35:00,459
So you would argue that essentially 98% of your listeners or users are freeloading and they're having that stuff for free.

416
00:35:02,439 --> 00:35:04,738
So yeah, it is a difficult one.

417
00:35:04,738 --> 00:35:18,798
I mean, because obviously when you have a band like Radiohead, for example, who back in 2007, they used their album In Rainbows where they posted it online and they asked people just to give whatever they wanted.

418
00:35:20,258 --> 00:35:26,618
They, I think, ended up earning over seven million pounds from that one record alone in donations.

419
00:35:27,658 --> 00:35:32,198
So it really is up to the value that the listener gets from it.

420
00:35:32,198 --> 00:35:41,138
It really does create a 1,000 true fans model that fans and artists can get behind.

421
00:35:41,378 --> 00:35:46,338
And at the end of the day, people are still sending £15 a month to Spotify

422
00:35:46,338 --> 00:35:53,138
or £15 a month to YouTube Music or £15 a month to Amazon Music.

423
00:35:53,718 --> 00:35:57,818
At the end of the day, they're still spending that money on music.

424
00:35:57,818 --> 00:36:04,158
but I think once we can educate them that the actual people that you know they're listening to

425
00:36:04,158 --> 00:36:11,158
are getting literally nothing out of that 15 pounds a month then maybe it might make them

426
00:36:11,158 --> 00:36:16,698
change their mind and change their listening habits a little bit I don't know it's it's really

427
00:36:16,698 --> 00:36:23,398
all speculative at this stage Avi you know we are just using the tools that we've got to help give

428
00:36:23,398 --> 00:36:31,518
more exposure to these amazing bands that are out there and you know it gives us new ways to stream

429
00:36:31,518 --> 00:36:36,419
live shows as well so it's not necessarily just the published music you know we've got the whole

430
00:36:36,419 --> 00:36:44,098
live angle as well um in the 90s you and i we would still go to gigs we would still love going

431
00:36:44,098 --> 00:36:49,439
and watching watching our favorite bands perform so that's never going to change you know but

432
00:36:49,439 --> 00:37:00,118
Obviously, having the ability to watch my favorite band, you know, when they're live streaming from, I don't know, say America, when I'm stuck in England, I would pay for that.

433
00:37:00,198 --> 00:37:01,318
I would donate to that.

434
00:37:01,419 --> 00:37:05,218
I would certainly send a message and say, great gig.

435
00:37:05,318 --> 00:37:06,158
Thanks for sharing.

436
00:37:06,338 --> 00:37:07,018
Do you know what I mean?

437
00:37:07,538 --> 00:37:09,858
And that's what Bitcoin utilizes.

438
00:37:10,038 --> 00:37:12,598
It makes everything easy, mate, doesn't it?

439
00:37:12,598 --> 00:37:24,078
At the end of the day, if you wanted to send Radiohead a super chat or something on YouTube, there's a certain minimum amount that you have to spend.

440
00:37:24,258 --> 00:37:27,658
Plus, you have to go through all the rigmarole of a sign-up to begin with.

441
00:37:28,158 --> 00:37:40,878
When you're just displaying a QR code or doing it on Zapstream where you can literally just zap at the top of a button, you don't have to worry about sort codes and account numbers and this, that, and the other.

442
00:37:40,878 --> 00:37:44,878
So I just think we're making it so easy to support artists.

443
00:37:45,058 --> 00:37:46,998
I think that's the key, you know.

444
00:37:48,439 --> 00:37:48,978
No, indeed.

445
00:37:49,419 --> 00:37:56,398
The wrathful Buddha in the live chat has issued a rather ironic correction, Aaron,

446
00:37:57,138 --> 00:38:01,678
which is that Spotify charges £21 per month.

447
00:38:02,398 --> 00:38:02,939
You know what?

448
00:38:03,018 --> 00:38:05,158
I never knew that, to be honest.

449
00:38:05,419 --> 00:38:06,718
That's ridiculous.

450
00:38:07,578 --> 00:38:08,398
That is ridiculous.

451
00:38:08,398 --> 00:38:15,658
uh nick mauster from fountain told me he said over the last two years the amount of money that

452
00:38:15,658 --> 00:38:20,358
the bands get to share between them or all the artists on spotty gets to share between them

453
00:38:20,358 --> 00:38:30,118
goes down 40 every two years so what kind of like deflation inflation rate is that do you know what

454
00:38:30,118 --> 00:38:35,959
i mean and presumably the rest of it goes into the i mean it's we're talking about digital goods

455
00:38:35,959 --> 00:38:41,658
here right so there is no work other than the initial act of creation right the distribution

456
00:38:41,658 --> 00:38:47,478
and everything else is just it's essentially free so the money is just going into the to the

457
00:38:47,478 --> 00:38:54,378
shareholders of these megacorps 100 yeah 100 and that's the other thing that we don't give any

458
00:38:54,378 --> 00:39:01,698
kudos to you know the cost for these bands and artists to get into a studio and to record you

459
00:39:01,698 --> 00:39:09,138
could be looking at anywhere between 500 and a thousand pounds per song you know once it's mixed

460
00:39:09,138 --> 00:39:15,378
once it's mastered once you've got you know backing singers in or extra vocalists or extra dramas or

461
00:39:15,378 --> 00:39:22,098
paying session artists each song could cost a thousand pounds now it's a bit like solar panels

462
00:39:22,098 --> 00:39:27,959
in the uk mate you're never going to get to see that money ever again you know if you put if you

463
00:39:27,959 --> 00:39:34,658
pay that money out to to record a track and then you put that money on you put that track onto

464
00:39:34,658 --> 00:39:41,118
spotify like a solar panel in the uk it's going to take you a hundred years for you to get your

465
00:39:41,118 --> 00:39:48,919
money back that's if you do do you know what i mean with bitcoin uh and it's um you know finite

466
00:39:48,919 --> 00:39:54,698
amount of coins when you earn in bitcoin you'll earn forever in in fiat terms do you know what i

467
00:39:54,698 --> 00:40:06,758
So even if they was only to receive 10, 15, 20,000 sats for the lifetime of a record, you'd like to think that's more than going to pay for itself in four years time, you know?

468
00:40:06,758 --> 00:40:19,959
Yeah. Well, I think it is this vulnerability that I suspect the record labels exploit, which is they find a band that they like and they're saying you need £500 or $500 per song and it's 12 songs, so you need six grand.

469
00:40:20,618 --> 00:40:27,419
We'll give you six grand so you can record your album and then that's it. We take 99% of the royalties after that.

470
00:40:27,419 --> 00:40:34,878
yeah that's that's essentially how it's worked for multiple decades multiple decades and then

471
00:40:34,878 --> 00:40:41,898
this goes to um one of my best mates longy who's um been very very successful i don't know if you

472
00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:50,818
saw him last week he was fantastic in in at uh at bitfest yeah yeah loved it um he you know he's

473
00:40:50,818 --> 00:40:55,738
been offered all of these contracts and he's refused to sign every single one do you know

474
00:40:55,738 --> 00:41:03,018
i mean because back in the uh to mid 2000s him and his band gospel trash they were supporting um

475
00:41:03,018 --> 00:41:09,718
the who you know in london at uh i think it was either victoria park or hyde park festival they

476
00:41:09,718 --> 00:41:15,738
actually paid played some massive massive gigs so he had that temptation of signing one of these deals

477
00:41:15,738 --> 00:41:26,479
and never ever took it um and you know i i i hope that this way of self-publishing music means

478
00:41:26,479 --> 00:41:31,898
most of these new bands and artists coming through will never have to you know kind of

479
00:41:31,898 --> 00:41:37,419
make that make that decision you know because at the end of the day the what the labels are doing

480
00:41:37,419 --> 00:41:39,919
and what they're paying them to do is to create an audience

481
00:41:39,944 --> 00:41:47,944
forum if we can show that in the value verse and you know with bitcoin and nostr there is an audience

482
00:41:47,944 --> 00:41:54,784
there ready and waiting and can't wait to hear new music do you know what i mean because the new is

483
00:41:54,784 --> 00:42:01,444
is the kind of key for me um it's all very well like listening to you elvis presley's and your

484
00:42:01,444 --> 00:42:06,744
beatles and the rolling stones of course they're all classics do you know what i mean and they'll

485
00:42:06,744 --> 00:42:11,944
probably all play at glastonbury next year because the average age of a glastonbury performer is in

486
00:42:11,944 --> 00:42:19,484
the mid 80s these days do you know i mean glastonbury's losing credibility fast um so we really want to

487
00:42:19,484 --> 00:42:25,384
get new music out there and we want to draw this line in the sand and just say all right well fiat

488
00:42:25,384 --> 00:42:30,804
legacy record companies and labels you know you go over there and you have your we're building this

489
00:42:30,804 --> 00:42:40,264
ecosystem, this kind of social layer, this planetary outer dimension over here that everyone

490
00:42:40,264 --> 00:42:44,204
can volunteer to get involved in. Do you know what I mean? There's no gatekeepers. There's

491
00:42:44,204 --> 00:42:51,604
no contracts. There's no mucky gatekeepers in the middle. There's no satanic worship

492
00:42:51,604 --> 00:42:59,004
just to get gigs. All of that kind of negative stuff. We just want the new stuff. We want

493
00:42:59,004 --> 00:43:04,444
new artists we want those people that have never had any of that exposure before we want to show

494
00:43:04,444 --> 00:43:11,504
there's a way over here and i think collectively you know we get enough people over here i say i

495
00:43:11,504 --> 00:43:16,644
said it's always about the numbers you know for every band that i bring on board hopefully that's

496
00:43:16,644 --> 00:43:24,944
a thousand people um would then potentially interact with you know value for value or

497
00:43:24,944 --> 00:43:29,844
Nostra or Fountain, do you know what I mean? The next step is then getting the artist to say,

498
00:43:30,004 --> 00:43:34,544
hey, stop giving your money to Spotify. Why don't you listen to my tracks over here? They're free

499
00:43:34,544 --> 00:43:40,964
and yada, yada, yada. So yeah, I think first proof of work is we've built this system.

500
00:43:42,324 --> 00:43:46,884
The second thing is like it's open source nature means it's getting better all the time.

501
00:43:47,464 --> 00:43:53,104
And the third thing, you know, with enough kind of artists and credible people becoming involved

502
00:43:53,104 --> 00:43:59,584
from the legacy systems and spying in over here.

503
00:44:01,164 --> 00:44:04,704
Yeah, I genuinely think that it has potential

504
00:44:04,704 --> 00:44:07,604
to do some amazing things in the future.

505
00:44:07,984 --> 00:44:09,984
And we've just got to start small.

506
00:44:10,184 --> 00:44:12,324
The conference last week at BitFest,

507
00:44:12,464 --> 00:44:15,864
having our after party kind of tagged onto BitFest,

508
00:44:15,864 --> 00:44:18,964
I think is like the first step of,

509
00:44:19,464 --> 00:44:22,424
first of all, we can reach out to the Bitcoiners very easily.

510
00:44:22,644 --> 00:44:23,044
Do you know what I mean?

511
00:44:23,104 --> 00:44:32,184
I mean, to me, it's still scandalous that there's so many Bitcoiners in the world that don't know that this music kind of ecosystem exists yet.

512
00:44:32,844 --> 00:44:42,764
So that's really my first goal, because I think that's the kind of easiest apple to reach on the tree.

513
00:44:42,964 --> 00:44:43,464
Do you know what I mean?

514
00:44:43,584 --> 00:44:48,724
Because the Bitcoiners already know how to use Bitcoin and what it's all about.

515
00:44:48,724 --> 00:44:56,024
so get into the conferences next year and kind of spread in some like after party kind of vibes to

516
00:44:56,024 --> 00:45:01,904
you know hopefully hopefully prague hopefully you know the film festival over there i know

517
00:45:01,904 --> 00:45:06,104
we're talking to those guys so hopefully we can bring a little bit of that to the bitcoiners

518
00:45:06,104 --> 00:45:11,924
and then i think you know six degrees of separation eventually it will start kind of

519
00:45:11,924 --> 00:45:16,164
bleeding into the normie world, you know?

520
00:45:17,284 --> 00:45:21,164
By the way, on that, Aaron, we are...

521
00:45:21,744 --> 00:45:24,204
So I'm working with Open Mic and a couple of others

522
00:45:24,204 --> 00:45:29,104
to do a Valley for Valley music event in Serbia

523
00:45:29,104 --> 00:45:30,884
the week after BTC Prague.

524
00:45:31,344 --> 00:45:32,884
So it's going to be three back...

525
00:45:32,884 --> 00:45:34,344
So there's the Bitcoin Film Fest in Warsaw,

526
00:45:34,604 --> 00:45:35,484
first week of June.

527
00:45:35,964 --> 00:45:37,204
There's Prague the week after that.

528
00:45:37,204 --> 00:45:39,464
And then we're planning to do one in Belgrade

529
00:45:39,464 --> 00:45:40,924
the week after that.

530
00:45:40,924 --> 00:45:46,284
Oh, my God, that'd be amazing. If we could have some kind of presence at all three, that'd be awesome.

531
00:45:47,344 --> 00:45:53,464
Yeah, I think that's the plan. And we're hoping to get Scardust, which is a metal band.

532
00:45:53,784 --> 00:46:04,984
They're Bitcoiners, by the way, and they're actually one of the largest Bitcoin bands that no one's, probably the largest Bitcoin band, actually, that no one's heard of, which is mind boggling to me.

533
00:46:04,984 --> 00:46:12,624
they do have a label but a phenomenal prog metal band uh noah gruman's lead singer probably the

534
00:46:12,624 --> 00:46:19,564
in my opinion the the best female rock voice today um so they they want to be there um so

535
00:46:19,564 --> 00:46:23,464
we're working with them and a few others so maybe we can after this we could chat

536
00:46:23,464 --> 00:46:29,604
at some point aaron and see if you're if you're interested in that but that promises to be an

537
00:46:29,604 --> 00:46:33,904
incredible june warsaw prog and then potentially belgrade if we can work this

538
00:46:33,904 --> 00:46:35,884
that would be phenomenal

539
00:46:35,884 --> 00:46:38,124
I'd love to get involved in that

540
00:46:38,124 --> 00:46:40,244
like I say it's fairly

541
00:46:40,244 --> 00:46:41,484
simple

542
00:46:41,484 --> 00:46:43,304
to do now

543
00:46:43,304 --> 00:46:46,304
we did our first show back in May

544
00:46:46,304 --> 00:46:48,144
we had support

545
00:46:48,144 --> 00:46:49,784
from Fountain and Azteco

546
00:46:49,784 --> 00:46:51,264
they gave us money

547
00:46:51,264 --> 00:46:54,304
they gave us the vouchers

548
00:46:54,304 --> 00:46:55,704
so that we could get

549
00:46:55,704 --> 00:46:57,684
Bitcoin into Normie's hands

550
00:46:57,684 --> 00:47:00,304
so they could take part in the venue

551
00:47:00,304 --> 00:47:02,204
and

552
00:47:02,204 --> 00:47:09,544
the process just to get us online streaming over fountain streaming on zap stream at the same time

553
00:47:09,544 --> 00:47:15,384
has got easier since then you know when we did it at bit fest last week there was two steps less

554
00:47:15,384 --> 00:47:21,464
do you know what i mean so who knows where we're going to be by next june mate i might be able to

555
00:47:21,464 --> 00:47:28,324
just hold up my phone just press a button and we go live do you know what i mean so that that's

556
00:47:28,324 --> 00:47:35,264
what's really it's the innovations how easy all of this kind of uh is is getting in such a short

557
00:47:35,264 --> 00:47:45,284
time time uh in such short time that um gives me a lot of excitement for the future um in fact i

558
00:47:45,284 --> 00:47:53,884
was just um just before i got on this um this pod with you i've been talking to a music venue in

559
00:47:53,884 --> 00:48:00,424
South End and I've just orange peeled them so I'm going in there Monday to help them set up

560
00:48:00,424 --> 00:48:06,024
accepting Bitcoin for drinks but it's also a music venue as well so we're going to have a few acts so

561
00:48:06,024 --> 00:48:13,824
if anyone's in Essex next Wednesday we are doing a Bitcoin meetup at Peggy Sue's in Leon C and we

562
00:48:13,824 --> 00:48:22,084
are going to have a couple of V4V performers there and who knows maybe I'll be able to stream a

563
00:48:22,084 --> 00:48:31,804
little bit of it for you on NOSTA and yeah so like I say we're part of a very very tiny

564
00:48:31,804 --> 00:48:37,264
grassroots movement but the technology is moving really really fast it's becoming a lot easier for

565
00:48:37,264 --> 00:48:42,504
us to do these kind of things now it's about numbers now we've just got to spread out show

566
00:48:42,504 --> 00:48:47,764
more people in the wild how it all works and and hopefully you know on board a few few more

567
00:48:47,764 --> 00:48:54,084
musicians yeah actually on that i want to go back to something you you brought up earlier when we

568
00:48:54,084 --> 00:49:02,004
were talking about can this voluntary donation model uh can we make it sustainable and you

569
00:49:02,004 --> 00:49:08,804
mentioned the thousand true fans and i think that might be the key aaron which is which is taking a

570
00:49:08,804 --> 00:49:12,504
step back and saying you know this this thinking of oh i'm going to put a song out there and there's

571
00:49:12,504 --> 00:49:16,304
going to be millions of people listening to it and they're all going to pay me a couple of cents

572
00:49:16,304 --> 00:49:19,864
That way I can make $100,000 on the song.

573
00:49:20,224 --> 00:49:21,544
I think that's fiat thinking.

574
00:49:22,304 --> 00:49:31,084
And maybe the way to think about it is, look, I'm a creator who's been completely unburdened from this platform and fiat nonsense.

575
00:49:31,084 --> 00:49:32,924
So I'm creating for the sake of creation.

576
00:49:33,304 --> 00:49:35,984
So I will find my niche audience.

577
00:49:36,884 --> 00:49:43,464
And that's going to be – I want that to grow to 1,000 people, people who really care about what I produce because it's authentic.

578
00:49:44,104 --> 00:49:44,824
It's not fiat.

579
00:49:44,824 --> 00:49:48,444
and they will pay whatever for my work.

580
00:49:48,624 --> 00:49:49,644
And maybe that's what it is.

581
00:49:49,684 --> 00:49:51,744
It's a series of these little niches

582
00:49:51,744 --> 00:49:54,764
of a thousand true fans for each of these creators.

583
00:49:56,724 --> 00:49:58,504
Yeah, 100%.

584
00:49:58,504 --> 00:50:01,264
I think that is the economic model going forward.

585
00:50:01,424 --> 00:50:03,524
And obviously the better you are as an artist,

586
00:50:04,224 --> 00:50:08,644
the more mainstream songs, I guess, that you write

587
00:50:08,644 --> 00:50:10,364
and the more popular you become,

588
00:50:10,544 --> 00:50:12,924
the more money you make at the end of the day.

589
00:50:12,924 --> 00:50:22,264
most of the musicians that i'm speaking to um they're not necessarily into them interested in

590
00:50:22,264 --> 00:50:28,524
the money side side of it they just want people to hear their music do you know what i mean and

591
00:50:28,524 --> 00:50:34,324
i'm really trying to focus on the fact that you know unless you're with a big record company you're

592
00:50:34,324 --> 00:50:40,724
never going to get exposure through spotify or youtube music or any of those normal avenues

593
00:50:40,724 --> 00:50:48,264
anyway. You're never going to get exposure on normal radio either. So there really is nothing

594
00:50:48,264 --> 00:50:54,524
for you to lose by coming over here and trying to develop this space with us, you know. So,

595
00:50:54,904 --> 00:51:01,984
yeah, it's a fair, voluntary, meritocratic system, you know. At the end of the day,

596
00:51:02,084 --> 00:51:08,704
someone like Ainsley Costello, who is like the queen of the value verse, she's earned,

597
00:51:08,704 --> 00:51:09,864
for one of her tracks.

598
00:51:09,964 --> 00:51:11,724
She's earned over a million sats

599
00:51:11,724 --> 00:51:13,564
for one of her tracks.

600
00:51:14,704 --> 00:51:17,724
So, you know, there is money there

601
00:51:17,724 --> 00:51:20,904
for those who want to be more mainstream.

602
00:51:21,224 --> 00:51:23,424
But then it always dumbfounds me as well.

603
00:51:23,604 --> 00:51:26,624
You know, bands like you were saying earlier,

604
00:51:26,704 --> 00:51:29,364
like metal and heavy metal bands

605
00:51:29,364 --> 00:51:31,104
and your bands like Metallica

606
00:51:31,104 --> 00:51:33,444
and your Iron Maiden, your ACDC.

607
00:51:34,104 --> 00:51:37,624
I never used to hear any of them on radio

608
00:51:37,624 --> 00:51:39,024
back in the day.

609
00:51:39,504 --> 00:51:39,964
Do you know what I mean?

610
00:51:40,044 --> 00:51:41,944
They never seemed to be mainstream,

611
00:51:42,204 --> 00:51:43,824
but every time they played at Wembley,

612
00:51:43,924 --> 00:51:45,904
they had 100,000 fans.

613
00:51:46,044 --> 00:51:48,784
They would sell out giant stadiums,

614
00:51:49,044 --> 00:51:50,304
but they weren't mainstream.

615
00:51:50,624 --> 00:51:51,184
Do you know what I mean?

616
00:51:51,184 --> 00:51:54,964
They were kind of dark underground.

617
00:51:55,064 --> 00:51:56,144
I mean, look at Aussie.

618
00:51:56,284 --> 00:51:58,244
Look at Black Sabbath.

619
00:51:59,044 --> 00:51:59,884
Do you know what I mean?

620
00:52:01,344 --> 00:52:13,271
So I think everything will find its level Everything will find its space you know And creating a system like this that rewards kind of quality

621
00:52:13,531 --> 00:52:18,791
rewards consistency, I mean, it's what the 1,000 True Fans model is.

622
00:52:18,791 --> 00:52:22,131
And, I mean, when you look at the T's and C's surrounding Patreon

623
00:52:22,131 --> 00:52:25,431
and all of those other kind of systems,

624
00:52:25,731 --> 00:52:29,531
where those organisations are taking a massive percentage

625
00:52:29,531 --> 00:52:34,351
of that artist's like, you know, blood, sweat and tears.

626
00:52:34,671 --> 00:52:37,571
This is just a much more fairer system, you know.

627
00:52:38,691 --> 00:52:40,451
Yeah, indeed.

628
00:52:40,551 --> 00:52:43,351
And then we have Condalorian in the live chat saying

629
00:52:43,351 --> 00:52:46,691
the beauty of Bitcoin and Nostra is that the thousand true fans

630
00:52:46,691 --> 00:52:48,951
can exist anywhere in the world.

631
00:52:49,331 --> 00:52:53,231
And we're no longer constrained by the artificial limitations

632
00:52:53,231 --> 00:52:54,711
of legacy payment systems.

633
00:52:55,391 --> 00:52:57,251
That is it. That is it.

634
00:52:57,391 --> 00:52:59,251
We are no longer constrained.

635
00:52:59,251 --> 00:53:05,891
the shackles are off it's really up to us and our own creativity and how we want to project

636
00:53:05,891 --> 00:53:12,671
the changes into the world we're responsible for it and and this is why whenever i do any show or

637
00:53:12,671 --> 00:53:18,871
any kind of meet up or i could make any any appearance or on anything i always implore

638
00:53:18,871 --> 00:53:24,871
everybody that's listening just go out and tell people about these things you know they're being

639
00:53:24,871 --> 00:53:31,691
built for us do you know what I mean we're building them for each other so go out and

640
00:53:31,691 --> 00:53:38,491
share the good news go out and let people know that there is another way and this this other way

641
00:53:38,491 --> 00:53:45,791
is fair and voluntary and democratic and meritocratic and all of these other words that

642
00:53:45,791 --> 00:53:51,951
you want to use to describe it but essentially it's a tool and a musician armed with you know

643
00:53:51,951 --> 00:54:02,531
value for value music or NOSTA in their toolkit has connections all over the world immediately from day one, you know.

644
00:54:03,111 --> 00:54:10,431
So I think it's important that people kind of embrace it and they get involved in the space.

645
00:54:10,431 --> 00:54:21,531
And like you say, you know, starting with the conferences next year, just a way that we can just tap into a bigger audience.

646
00:54:21,531 --> 00:54:22,891
because we need a bigger audience

647
00:54:22,891 --> 00:54:24,071
because at the end of the day,

648
00:54:24,471 --> 00:54:28,071
I'm seeing more and more zaps coming through for the artists.

649
00:54:28,231 --> 00:54:30,251
I'm seeing more kind of streams happening.

650
00:54:30,391 --> 00:54:31,751
I'm seeing more donations.

651
00:54:32,291 --> 00:54:34,991
We're still in the very, very early stages.

652
00:54:35,171 --> 00:54:37,751
We're probably only of a few thousand people

653
00:54:37,751 --> 00:54:38,991
that know this exists.

654
00:54:39,591 --> 00:54:42,631
And there's only about 7,000 albums

655
00:54:42,631 --> 00:54:44,691
in the Valueverse at the moment.

656
00:54:44,911 --> 00:54:45,491
Do you know what I mean?

657
00:54:45,591 --> 00:54:46,931
So we're so early.

658
00:54:47,891 --> 00:54:51,251
It's such a tiny, you know, tiny ecosystem.

659
00:54:51,531 --> 00:54:56,211
that we just have to be patient, not get too frustrated,

660
00:54:56,531 --> 00:54:58,271
but know that we're on the right track.

661
00:54:58,371 --> 00:55:02,931
And what we're doing is, in my opinion, decentralising music,

662
00:55:02,931 --> 00:55:06,151
and it's going to be the way forward, not just for us,

663
00:55:06,571 --> 00:55:08,671
but for generations to come, you know?

664
00:55:09,511 --> 00:55:09,651
Yeah.

665
00:55:10,551 --> 00:55:14,851
Aaron, let's talk about the artists you've nudged into this world.

666
00:55:15,071 --> 00:55:16,691
There's Longy, there's Nathan Abbott,

667
00:55:17,091 --> 00:55:19,811
I think very recently a band called Hear My Roar,

668
00:55:19,811 --> 00:55:21,291
and I think there are a few others as well.

669
00:55:21,531 --> 00:55:25,971
Maybe pick one or two and talk about what that nudge story looked like.

670
00:55:27,311 --> 00:55:34,991
Well, in early 2023, I'd like to say kind of like January, February kind of time,

671
00:55:34,991 --> 00:55:40,491
I heard Joe Martin on a podcast and he was talking about Wav Lake,

672
00:55:40,651 --> 00:55:45,751
about how he'd basically monetized his art by publishing it to Wav Lake.

673
00:55:46,091 --> 00:55:50,991
And all of a sudden, someone listening to his music in middle America

674
00:55:50,991 --> 00:55:54,151
was started sending in Bitcoin.

675
00:55:54,911 --> 00:55:56,891
Now, I kind of knew this was coming,

676
00:55:57,151 --> 00:55:59,291
so I reached out to Longy,

677
00:55:59,411 --> 00:56:01,351
who's been a long-suffering friend of mine.

678
00:56:01,491 --> 00:56:03,451
I've known him for like 20 years.

679
00:56:03,911 --> 00:56:06,191
Every time I see him perform live,

680
00:56:06,191 --> 00:56:12,731
I'm always dumbfounded with how he has never really gone on to make it.

681
00:56:12,871 --> 00:56:13,371
Do you know what I mean?

682
00:56:13,471 --> 00:56:14,251
Make a stir.

683
00:56:14,411 --> 00:56:16,511
Because I genuinely believe,

684
00:56:16,691 --> 00:56:18,851
and I wonder if anyone agrees with me in the chat,

685
00:56:18,851 --> 00:56:24,851
but I think his songwriting and his vocal and his musicianship,

686
00:56:25,591 --> 00:56:28,731
because he plays guitar, he plays piano, he can play everything.

687
00:56:29,451 --> 00:56:32,971
I genuinely believe he's up there with your Noel Gallagher's

688
00:56:32,971 --> 00:56:34,571
and with your Richard Ashcroft's.

689
00:56:34,671 --> 00:56:39,991
He's inspired by all that 90s kind of alternative indie music.

690
00:56:40,691 --> 00:56:44,291
I believe his songwriting and all of that is up there with them.

691
00:56:44,491 --> 00:56:45,011
Do you know what I mean?

692
00:56:45,011 --> 00:56:49,311
He's proper rock and roll as a person.

693
00:56:49,831 --> 00:56:51,351
Quick point on that, Aaron.

694
00:56:51,671 --> 00:56:55,071
So that was my first time listening to Longhi live at Bitfest.

695
00:56:55,171 --> 00:56:56,291
And there were a few others as well.

696
00:56:56,931 --> 00:57:01,511
Andre Loja from Free Madeira and a few others I was standing with at the front of the stage.

697
00:57:01,891 --> 00:57:07,291
And when Longhi was playing one of his songs, and it has this beautiful guitar solo at one point,

698
00:57:07,851 --> 00:57:09,331
our jaws hit the floor.

699
00:57:09,871 --> 00:57:12,411
We're like, what are we listening to?

700
00:57:12,591 --> 00:57:14,471
This is like we're back in the 90s.

701
00:57:14,471 --> 00:57:15,271
This is incredible.

702
00:57:15,931 --> 00:57:20,351
So I just wanted to put out that I was taken aback by how good,

703
00:57:20,411 --> 00:57:25,291
and I wasn't the only one at BitFest, but about how good Longhi was.

704
00:57:26,831 --> 00:57:28,731
Yeah, well, that's it.

705
00:57:28,731 --> 00:57:32,591
And, I mean, I've seen that in him for, like, 20 years.

706
00:57:33,571 --> 00:57:36,491
So I took it upon myself.

707
00:57:36,671 --> 00:57:37,931
I spoke to him.

708
00:57:38,391 --> 00:57:41,511
This was, like, two and a half years ago now.

709
00:57:42,131 --> 00:57:43,411
Yeah, we're talking, like, May.

710
00:57:43,411 --> 00:57:49,891
no March I think when I first reached out to him and being typical Longy he stood me up on the first

711
00:57:49,891 --> 00:57:54,791
three occasions that I'd agreed to meet with him and talk to him about this thing do you know what

712
00:57:54,791 --> 00:58:03,291
I mean I didn't want to like bamboozle him with the tech or like I say the orange pill the bitcoin

713
00:58:03,291 --> 00:58:08,611
I simply asked him have you heard of bitcoin and he says well I know someone that's kind of got

714
00:58:08,611 --> 00:58:13,251
Ethereum and stuff like that. And I'm like, well, you know enough. Do you know what I mean?

715
00:58:13,251 --> 00:58:18,511
So then obviously I go into my script of, well, the point of difference is Ethereum is owned by

716
00:58:18,511 --> 00:58:23,991
everyone, whereas Ethereum is controlled by, you know, a centralized figure. And it's, you know,

717
00:58:24,051 --> 00:58:29,131
you really want to go with the one that no one can change and no one can manipulate. Do you know

718
00:58:29,131 --> 00:58:34,771
what I mean? So I got him on board as a bit of a Bitcoiner then. But yeah, we literally met over

719
00:58:34,771 --> 00:58:39,671
the park and I was walking the dog and we're walking around the duck pond and I was just

720
00:58:39,671 --> 00:58:45,631
really explaining to him that look there's this new way coming I'd love for you to give me one of

721
00:58:45,631 --> 00:58:52,211
your songs I'll post it for you I'll do all the technical stuff I'll post it I'll promote it

722
00:58:52,211 --> 00:58:58,891
and we see what happens and basically he him being a little bit of a dreamer a bit of a space cadet

723
00:58:58,891 --> 00:59:04,711
sometimes I don't think he really got it Jeremy didn't really understand the economic

724
00:59:04,711 --> 00:59:10,891
side of it you know he just saw this as being another platform because that's the thing you

725
00:59:10,891 --> 00:59:17,591
know most people don't understand the differences between platforms and protocols you know so rather

726
00:59:17,591 --> 00:59:22,711
than bombarding them with too much complicated stuff i'm just like look you'll be a case study

727
00:59:22,711 --> 00:59:29,771
give me one song we'll post it we'll see what happens then all of a sudden adam curry must have

728
00:59:29,771 --> 00:59:36,171
heard Longy's song, Trawling Through Wav Lake, and he went and played it on his podcast in 2.0 show,

729
00:59:36,631 --> 00:59:40,751
and then all of a sudden I've got Longy texting me saying, I don't know what's going on, my wallet

730
00:59:40,751 --> 00:59:48,771
is going nuts. And then the rest is history. I then go and like screen record, and I didn't know

731
00:59:48,771 --> 00:59:53,651
that Adam Curry had played it. It wasn't until like a few days later that I'm listening to his

732
00:59:53,651 --> 00:59:59,631
show, his podcast, and I heard it on now. And Adam Curry gave a concise, you know, reason why

733
00:59:59,631 --> 01:00:02,351
this technology disrupts an industry.

734
01:00:02,571 --> 01:00:04,891
It doesn't disrupt a company like Spotify.

735
01:00:05,051 --> 01:00:07,091
We're not interested in disrupting Spotify,

736
01:00:07,391 --> 01:00:10,071
but we are interested in disrupting an industry.

737
01:00:11,211 --> 01:00:12,891
And, you know, the rest is history.

738
01:00:13,051 --> 01:00:14,091
Adam Curry played it.

739
01:00:14,391 --> 01:00:16,711
Loads of sats got sent through to Longin.

740
01:00:16,711 --> 01:00:21,111
I think, you know, the price was probably only around 20 grand at 20K at the time.

741
01:00:21,911 --> 01:00:26,411
But he was being sent, you know, 100 and something thousand sats,

742
01:00:26,411 --> 01:00:29,791
maybe 150,000 sats over the course of a few days.

743
01:00:30,431 --> 01:00:32,631
Now, Longy's shared with me in the past

744
01:00:32,631 --> 01:00:35,031
that his distribution that he normally gets

745
01:00:35,031 --> 01:00:37,991
from Spotify and YouTube and all of that

746
01:00:37,991 --> 01:00:40,931
normally only equates to about £100,

747
01:00:41,771 --> 01:00:44,551
sorry, $120 a year.

748
01:00:45,511 --> 01:00:46,071
Wow.

749
01:00:47,031 --> 01:00:50,811
So this idea that this tiny little space,

750
01:00:50,951 --> 01:00:52,431
this experimental thing,

751
01:00:52,551 --> 01:00:54,531
and he's put nothing into it, do you know what I mean?

752
01:00:54,531 --> 01:00:57,271
I said to him, your proof of work's done.

753
01:00:57,411 --> 01:01:00,351
You've recorded the songs, you've written the songs, you've recorded them.

754
01:01:00,991 --> 01:01:02,211
Your proof of work's done.

755
01:01:02,391 --> 01:01:06,131
Now it's the time to get it out there and get people listening to it

756
01:01:06,131 --> 01:01:09,731
so that hopefully you can pick up on a modicum of success

757
01:01:09,731 --> 01:01:12,051
that I believe his talent deserves.

758
01:01:12,811 --> 01:01:15,831
So yeah, it just snowballed from there really.

759
01:01:15,991 --> 01:01:19,771
I mean, Longy really was the only artist that I had on there

760
01:01:19,771 --> 01:01:21,791
for a good year to 18 months.

761
01:01:21,791 --> 01:01:26,011
You know, he would give me more songs every week.

762
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:28,171
And I said, look, the key to this is consistency.

763
01:01:28,891 --> 01:01:33,091
I'll post a new song and I'll tweet about it every week.

764
01:01:33,751 --> 01:01:35,871
You know, we did a few podcasts together.

765
01:01:35,991 --> 01:01:40,031
I know we went on Heather Larson's show and we went on Salty Crown's show

766
01:01:40,031 --> 01:01:42,191
and, you know, doing interviews like that.

767
01:01:42,531 --> 01:01:45,451
But like you, when people see Longy for the first time,

768
01:01:45,671 --> 01:01:48,511
they are like, wow, this guy's talented.

769
01:01:48,771 --> 01:01:49,371
Do you know what I mean?

770
01:01:49,371 --> 01:01:50,731
It's not a fluke.

771
01:01:51,791 --> 01:01:55,671
So yeah, so he carried on giving me songs.

772
01:01:56,051 --> 01:01:59,371
And then it wasn't until January this year,

773
01:02:00,071 --> 01:02:01,351
was it January?

774
01:02:01,531 --> 01:02:02,650
Yeah, January this year,

775
01:02:02,791 --> 01:02:04,731
an old friend of mine, Fable,

776
01:02:05,131 --> 01:02:06,291
Vinnie from Fable,

777
01:02:06,391 --> 01:02:09,491
I saw he was releasing an album on Facebook.

778
01:02:09,891 --> 01:02:11,351
He put a post up on Facebook.

779
01:02:12,391 --> 01:02:14,111
And I just simply just messaged him,

780
01:02:14,211 --> 01:02:15,511
mate, you should check this out.

781
01:02:15,571 --> 01:02:16,891
You should get your music over here.

782
01:02:16,951 --> 01:02:18,791
And once again, it was typical musician.

783
01:02:18,791 --> 01:02:19,911
It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

784
01:02:19,911 --> 01:02:22,111
oh, can you do that for me, Aaron?

785
01:02:22,831 --> 01:02:35,177
And I like all right okay I creating myself more work now All right I do that for you So he sends me the whole album over And you know I drip feed that into the value verse

786
01:02:35,177 --> 01:02:37,637
you know, like one song a month, every month,

787
01:02:37,697 --> 01:02:39,057
until the album was done.

788
01:02:39,577 --> 01:02:41,677
And then I bumped into Nathan Abbott.

789
01:02:41,837 --> 01:02:43,197
Me and Longy was at a session.

790
01:02:43,337 --> 01:02:44,797
We was recording at the chapel,

791
01:02:45,097 --> 01:02:46,917
and we was recording a video,

792
01:02:47,717 --> 01:02:49,437
which still hasn't seen the light of day.

793
01:02:49,577 --> 01:02:51,497
I'm eager to get that out,

794
01:02:51,497 --> 01:02:56,297
because I'm working on doing like a visual record.

795
01:02:57,197 --> 01:02:58,917
It's a kind of music video,

796
01:02:59,137 --> 01:03:02,417
but we want to release the video almost as the single,

797
01:03:02,717 --> 01:03:03,617
if you know what I mean.

798
01:03:03,617 --> 01:03:06,337
So we would release the video first

799
01:03:06,337 --> 01:03:08,937
and then the single would come out afterwards.

800
01:03:09,017 --> 01:03:12,277
Anyway, but we're making an EP

801
01:03:12,277 --> 01:03:14,397
that we're recording all that for a long EP.

802
01:03:14,457 --> 01:03:16,497
But anyway, we come out of this recording session

803
01:03:16,497 --> 01:03:18,477
and then I bumped into Nathan.

804
01:03:18,717 --> 01:03:20,117
And I'm like, Nathan, how are you doing?

805
01:03:20,117 --> 01:03:24,217
you know have you got any music you want to try this thing and obviously having longy there next

806
01:03:24,217 --> 01:03:30,297
to me longy's like bro it's so easy you know just give aaron your stuff and just things start

807
01:03:30,297 --> 01:03:36,957
happening um and it really has been and obviously the more uh people i've onboarded you know from

808
01:03:36,957 --> 01:03:44,837
nathan fable um you know the 54 plates which is nathan's brother nolan and that's his band

809
01:03:44,837 --> 01:03:48,257
I got him involved in May

810
01:03:48,257 --> 01:03:49,997
and then Hear My Raw

811
01:03:49,997 --> 01:03:52,757
I've only brought them on last week

812
01:03:52,757 --> 01:03:55,777
for anyone that likes Fleetwood Mac

813
01:03:55,777 --> 01:03:56,457
and all of that

814
01:03:56,457 --> 01:03:58,197
they're a beautiful sounding band

815
01:03:58,197 --> 01:04:00,057
got some really really good tunes

816
01:04:00,057 --> 01:04:02,177
Hear My Raw

817
01:04:02,177 --> 01:04:04,777
I've been speaking to them about it for a while

818
01:04:04,777 --> 01:04:06,877
and they've finally got in the studio

819
01:04:06,877 --> 01:04:08,677
to record some new songs

820
01:04:08,677 --> 01:04:12,717
and their song is actually an exclusive

821
01:04:12,717 --> 01:04:14,377
it's only in the Valueverse

822
01:04:14,377 --> 01:04:15,477
It's nowhere else.

823
01:04:15,737 --> 01:04:16,317
Do you know what I mean?

824
01:04:16,317 --> 01:04:20,377
So they need our support because, you know,

825
01:04:20,497 --> 01:04:22,257
for this thing to kind of keep going.

826
01:04:22,757 --> 01:04:24,657
And, yeah, and that's basically how it happens.

827
01:04:24,777 --> 01:04:27,477
And then from here, my raw, there was Frankie Peroni

828
01:04:27,477 --> 01:04:30,137
who got in touch with me because he was speaking to Stuart.

829
01:04:30,657 --> 01:04:33,657
And then Stuart works at Southend City Radio,

830
01:04:33,657 --> 01:04:36,597
and he's asked me to pop in there next week.

831
01:04:36,657 --> 01:04:40,317
So now it looks like I'm onboarding an entire bloody radio station

832
01:04:40,897 --> 01:04:44,137
to the Valueverse, Noster, and everything else.

833
01:04:44,137 --> 01:04:49,377
So, you know, I've stumbled across this.

834
01:04:49,577 --> 01:04:50,217
Do you know what I mean?

835
01:04:51,357 --> 01:04:54,297
Simply because I wanted Longy to get more exposure.

836
01:04:55,937 --> 01:04:59,737
Everyone's, like, tapping me up now as, like, I guess the man that can, you know?

837
01:05:00,337 --> 01:05:04,357
Well, that's the – so Chad F. in the live stream comments says,

838
01:05:04,477 --> 01:05:09,657
it appears we've found a solution to our onboarding problems.

839
01:05:09,717 --> 01:05:10,897
Just have Aaron do it.

840
01:05:10,897 --> 01:05:20,437
yeah basically in a nutshell i guess i've got i've got a way of showing it and obviously having

841
01:05:20,437 --> 01:05:26,057
a track record now being able to point at someone like long and say look long is 30x

842
01:05:26,057 --> 01:05:33,197
spotify earnings in the same amount of time you know not that for me that's a big deal but for

843
01:05:33,197 --> 01:05:37,557
the artists they're like well it's not really bad i just want someone to hear it and i'm like

844
01:05:37,557 --> 01:05:41,297
okay, how about number one in the RSS global charts?

845
01:05:41,397 --> 01:05:43,557
Would you like to achieve that?

846
01:05:44,137 --> 01:05:45,537
So Fable, one of my acts,

847
01:05:45,577 --> 01:05:49,397
I think they've had four number ones in the RSS global charts now.

848
01:05:49,597 --> 01:05:50,197
Do you know what I mean?

849
01:05:50,397 --> 01:05:53,177
So whatever your currency is,

850
01:05:53,257 --> 01:05:55,477
whether you want the Bitcoin or whether you want the dopamine,

851
01:05:56,237 --> 01:05:57,657
I'll serve it up to you.

852
01:05:57,757 --> 01:05:59,397
I've got it in spades.

853
01:06:01,377 --> 01:06:02,317
You're the dealer.

854
01:06:02,317 --> 01:06:11,877
Yeah. So I want to change tracks to something that we mentioned, Roger 9000.

855
01:06:12,817 --> 01:06:31,037
He mentioned or he had a note on NOSTA a couple of days back where he and essentially it's a call to action, a call to arms for all Bitcoin artists or artists who happen to be Bitcoiners who get invited to play at conferences.

856
01:06:31,037 --> 01:06:37,117
I don't think BitFest is the best example because I think BitFest honestly did a great job with the music night.

857
01:06:37,237 --> 01:06:42,537
But there are several conferences that are realizing that they need artists to play at them.

858
01:06:43,477 --> 01:06:50,977
Because, you know, having one music event with musicians is a great way of bringing people there.

859
01:06:51,977 --> 01:06:56,097
However, and it's not just Roger, I've spoken to other musicians.

860
01:06:56,537 --> 01:06:58,017
For the most part, they don't get paid.

861
01:06:58,017 --> 01:07:01,157
They're expected to show up and play at these conferences.

862
01:07:01,817 --> 01:07:10,597
And I think Roger's call to arms is, look, as a conference organizer, you clearly see some value in what I have to provide.

863
01:07:10,857 --> 01:07:14,777
Otherwise, you wouldn't be inviting me to your conference to play at this music event.

864
01:07:14,957 --> 01:07:16,957
However, you're not recognizing that value at all.

865
01:07:17,217 --> 01:07:18,457
I'm having to pay for my flight.

866
01:07:18,597 --> 01:07:19,777
I'm having to pay for my hotel.

867
01:07:20,097 --> 01:07:21,737
I'm having to pay for my food, everything.

868
01:07:21,737 --> 01:07:27,897
um what is that is this something you've come across as well with with some of these musicians

869
01:07:27,897 --> 01:07:36,517
Aaron which is the expectation that they perform for free well my background is was in fashion

870
01:07:36,517 --> 01:07:44,417
Avi and I must have spent the first seven or eight years of my hairdressing career because I was more

871
01:07:44,417 --> 01:07:49,757
of a session hairdresser so I used to do lots of um photo shoots fashion shows things like that

872
01:07:49,757 --> 01:07:56,357
and there is a certain right of passage where a lot of the work you do right at the beginning

873
01:07:56,357 --> 01:08:00,737
in those creative industries, you have to do it almost like an intern would.

874
01:08:00,917 --> 01:08:02,477
You'd have to do it for free.

875
01:08:03,157 --> 01:08:07,217
But we're talking established artists that have a back catalogue of work.

876
01:08:07,337 --> 01:08:10,737
It's not right that we're asking them to work for free

877
01:08:10,737 --> 01:08:16,597
and shout out to Nat and Nind and Nathan and all the guys from Bitfest last week

878
01:08:16,597 --> 01:08:22,117
because at the bare minimum, all of the musicians that performed last week at Bitfest,

879
01:08:22,237 --> 01:08:25,017
they got all of their hotels paid for.

880
01:08:25,557 --> 01:08:29,017
They obviously received plenty of boosts and zaps on the night,

881
01:08:29,137 --> 01:08:36,657
and they got a share of the ticket price on the door for all the tickets that were sold on the night.

882
01:08:37,337 --> 01:08:41,377
And I was stunned because Roger told me that exact same thing,

883
01:08:41,377 --> 01:08:45,397
that he's been five years touring the globe, doing all the conferences,

884
01:08:45,397 --> 01:08:52,377
and every single time he's had to do it and sacrifices his Bitcoin, basically, in order to perform.

885
01:08:53,057 --> 01:08:56,897
And I just think that that's not right.

886
01:08:57,157 --> 01:08:57,797
Do you know what I mean?

887
01:08:58,157 --> 01:09:01,077
These people are bringing value to the space.

888
01:09:01,437 --> 01:09:05,317
It is to do with Bitcoin culture and we need to get them rewarded

889
01:09:05,317 --> 01:09:10,477
because at the end of the day, there's nothing more than a bit of rock and roll

890
01:09:10,477 --> 01:09:14,817
or a bit of music or pure talent being up on stage

891
01:09:14,817 --> 01:09:17,677
that gets your emotions going,

892
01:09:17,877 --> 01:09:22,057
that tap into something, a frequency that's beyond

893
01:09:22,057 --> 01:09:27,817
what a macro analyst economics guy can do.

894
01:09:27,937 --> 01:09:28,577
Do you know what I mean?

895
01:09:29,137 --> 01:09:33,497
And Michael Saylor is wonderful with his engineering metaphors

896
01:09:33,497 --> 01:09:35,037
about what Bitcoin is.

897
01:09:35,657 --> 01:09:39,097
But pure unadulterated rock and roll

898
01:09:39,097 --> 01:09:46,877
where you can let your hair down, that's a higher frequency than just talking all the time.

899
01:09:46,977 --> 01:09:47,537
Do you know what I mean?

900
01:09:47,537 --> 01:09:52,657
It acts on our inner animals.

901
01:09:53,357 --> 01:09:57,697
And music is a powerful messaging system.

902
01:09:57,977 --> 01:10:08,717
It has the ability to repeat and you to memorize and lyrics can speak to you in a way that just spoken word may not.

903
01:10:09,097 --> 01:10:15,017
So I think it's really important that the future of this is if you want us musicians to play,

904
01:10:15,417 --> 01:10:22,037
then yeah, bare minimum is pay them a wage, put them up, give them a hotel room,

905
01:10:22,537 --> 01:10:25,197
do whatever you can to make sure they get paid.

906
01:10:25,197 --> 01:10:27,757
Because obviously they're going to get rewarded in sats.

907
01:10:28,517 --> 01:10:31,777
But we're going to have to have some kind of guarantee.

908
01:10:32,357 --> 01:10:35,597
We can't be going to the conferences and spending £1,000

909
01:10:35,597 --> 01:10:40,257
and then only getting like £50 worth of sats back for them.

910
01:10:40,337 --> 01:10:40,897
Do you know what I mean?

911
01:10:41,017 --> 01:10:44,137
Because it doesn't matter how good a loss leader that is,

912
01:10:44,417 --> 01:10:45,917
you know, it's not enough.

913
01:10:46,277 --> 01:10:49,057
And you've seen a lot of these conferences, Avi.

914
01:10:49,117 --> 01:10:50,897
I'm sure you've been to plenty of them.

915
01:10:51,037 --> 01:10:54,737
I mean, I haven't, but there's enough advertising,

916
01:10:54,997 --> 01:10:57,537
there's enough money going around these conferences

917
01:10:57,537 --> 01:11:01,097
that we can work on getting the artists paid.

918
01:11:01,097 --> 01:11:01,797
Do you know what I mean?

919
01:11:02,657 --> 01:11:04,277
Yeah, well, there absolutely is.

920
01:11:04,277 --> 01:11:07,177
especially the ones that take the big sponsors

921
01:11:07,177 --> 01:11:12,757
they certainly can carve out

922
01:11:12,757 --> 01:11:14,337
yeah, as you're saying

923
01:11:14,337 --> 01:11:17,517
even if you're not paying them for the music

924
01:11:17,517 --> 01:11:18,617
which I think they should be

925
01:11:18,617 --> 01:11:20,797
at least cover their travel and their lodging

926
01:11:20,797 --> 01:11:22,657
yeah, bare minimum

927
01:11:22,657 --> 01:11:24,417
absolute bare minimum

928
01:11:24,417 --> 01:11:27,617
because they're going to pick up some sats

929
01:11:27,617 --> 01:11:28,557
from their performance

930
01:11:28,557 --> 01:11:29,717
we'd like to hope

931
01:11:29,717 --> 01:11:30,477
do you know what I mean?

932
01:11:30,637 --> 01:11:33,117
so yeah, if they can go over there

933
01:11:33,117 --> 01:11:36,597
with a clear conscience of this isn't going to cost me anything,

934
01:11:37,137 --> 01:11:38,677
then, you know, that's a start.

935
01:11:39,577 --> 01:11:40,357
So, yeah.

936
01:11:40,617 --> 01:11:43,057
So, yeah, more of this stuff, you know, more.

937
01:11:43,357 --> 01:11:44,777
We want more of it.

938
01:11:46,157 --> 01:11:46,297
Yeah.

939
01:11:47,477 --> 01:11:48,677
Yeah, for sure.

940
01:11:48,797 --> 01:11:52,377
So let's talk about the Into the Valueverse.

941
01:11:52,377 --> 01:11:56,797
Was that the name of the event that you did earlier this summer?

942
01:11:57,277 --> 01:11:58,117
Correct, yeah.

943
01:11:58,317 --> 01:12:00,137
So we performed.

944
01:12:00,137 --> 01:12:04,517
it was me, Longy, Nathan Abbott and Joe Martin

945
01:12:04,517 --> 01:12:06,957
and the video is up there on YouTube

946
01:12:06,957 --> 01:12:09,097
for anyone that wants to go and watch the whole gig

947
01:12:09,097 --> 01:12:12,397
and it was pretty similar set up to what we had

948
01:12:12,397 --> 01:12:14,037
at Bitfest the other night, Avi

949
01:12:14,037 --> 01:12:18,617
where I was kind of a reluctant MC for the night

950
01:12:18,617 --> 01:12:20,637
I had like my little script

951
01:12:20,637 --> 01:12:22,297
and I had my little bits and bobs

952
01:12:22,297 --> 01:12:24,537
and we live streamed it

953
01:12:24,537 --> 01:12:27,497
you know, over Noster and over Zapstream

954
01:12:27,497 --> 01:12:32,817
and on the night we had about three hours

955
01:12:32,817 --> 01:12:37,057
and like BitFest last week, the technology worked superbly

956
01:12:37,057 --> 01:12:40,597
but how this differed from a normal show

957
01:12:40,597 --> 01:12:44,537
was we had a big screen to the right of the stage

958
01:12:44,537 --> 01:12:46,197
that had the booster board

959
01:12:46,197 --> 01:12:49,117
we had, like I say, Fountain and Azteco support

960
01:12:49,117 --> 01:13:00,383
they gave us these vouchers where people could download the Fountain app and put worth of Bitcoin into their Fountain app ready to zap the artists

961
01:13:01,423 --> 01:13:09,983
And it was the first time we'd ever had a Bitcoin gig, sorry, a music gig powered by Bitcoin in the UK.

962
01:13:09,983 --> 01:13:13,163
and that was something I was determined to do

963
01:13:13,163 --> 01:13:17,363
because we were disappointed earlier this year

964
01:13:17,363 --> 01:13:24,023
because we was in conversation with Ainsley Costello,

965
01:13:24,243 --> 01:13:28,143
Julie Costello, Phantom Power Music over in the States

966
01:13:28,143 --> 01:13:31,483
about coming over and doing a live show in London.

967
01:13:32,863 --> 01:13:36,983
We'd earmarked, I think, some big venues in King's Cross

968
01:13:36,983 --> 01:13:38,683
and maybe the Water Rats

969
01:13:38,683 --> 01:13:49,943
And we was going to do this show off the back of, I think there was like, there's a podcasting exhibition or trade show, you know, in May.

970
01:13:50,423 --> 01:13:55,983
And we wanted to do it off the back of that because Fountain were appearing at this trade show.

971
01:13:56,463 --> 01:13:58,403
Anyway, things happened.

972
01:13:58,983 --> 01:14:04,583
The American guys who had already done the Booster Grand Ball previously in October.

973
01:14:04,583 --> 01:14:11,663
So I think the first ever Bitcoin-powered live gig was the Booster Grand Ball that was emceed by Adam Curry.

974
01:14:12,103 --> 01:14:19,623
And it had probably loads of the people in our chat room there, like Chad F. and Heather Larson, Ainsley Costello, Suzanne Santo.

975
01:14:19,743 --> 01:14:20,723
They all had performing there.

976
01:14:20,723 --> 01:14:24,483
Was that the one in Austin which Open Mic organized?

977
01:14:24,903 --> 01:14:26,163
Correct. Yeah, correct.

978
01:14:26,303 --> 01:14:31,583
I think it was like October, I want to say October 24, maybe.

979
01:14:31,583 --> 01:14:39,823
so yeah so knowing that um julie and ainsley had that experience to do it um i was quite keen for

980
01:14:39,823 --> 01:14:46,303
them to come over and get involved with us to do it here but when um when things kind of worked

981
01:14:46,303 --> 01:14:51,943
against them they they um accepted that they couldn't make it over it it was kind of then up

982
01:14:51,943 --> 01:14:56,843
to me to kind of go well you know what this is something i really really want to do and i'm

983
01:14:56,843 --> 01:15:01,923
determined to do it. So I just put a shout out on Nostar, and I don't know if he's out there,

984
01:15:01,923 --> 01:15:13,203
but INPC, who does a live stream every morning, he reached out to me because I didn't have any

985
01:15:13,203 --> 01:15:19,583
idea about the streaming and the OBR and Zapstream. And I just put, anyone out there who can help me

986
01:15:19,583 --> 01:15:25,183
live stream our first show? And he got in touch almost straight away, and he says, well, I'm doing

987
01:15:25,183 --> 01:15:29,603
a morning show where I'm streaming every day anyway. So I was like, oh my God, that's amazing.

988
01:15:30,123 --> 01:15:37,603
So he lived in the next county along to me and he got in the car, travelled up. I said, look,

989
01:15:37,663 --> 01:15:42,823
you can keep here the night. You don't have to buy hotels. I mean, I can put you in the split

990
01:15:42,823 --> 01:15:49,363
for the show. So literally, it was the first show that we'd done, went all over the world.

991
01:15:49,363 --> 01:15:57,343
everybody that kind of contributed went into the split so the sound guy got a split you know

992
01:15:57,343 --> 01:16:04,063
impc got a split the photographer was taking images got a split i got a split for running

993
01:16:04,063 --> 01:16:09,283
around like a headless chicken for about a month like organizing it all and obviously the artist

994
01:16:09,283 --> 01:16:14,963
got the majority of the split i think it went 75 i think it went 25 for each artist and then the

995
01:16:14,963 --> 01:16:24,083
final 25 was for the crew and you know avi that that that um that event it raised on the night i

996
01:16:24,083 --> 01:16:32,703
think it was around about 450 000 sats and it went out live on fountain uh as well as uh zapstream

997
01:16:32,703 --> 01:16:40,423
450 000 sats we raised on the night in the room to the actual kind of you know artist wallets you

998
01:16:40,423 --> 01:16:48,303
know it was probably a few more uh few more hundred thousand sats um and it was it was kind of seamless

999
01:16:48,303 --> 01:16:54,083
and it was flawless it kind of just worked and we was having messages from all over the globe which

1000
01:16:54,083 --> 01:17:00,723
made everyone kind of feel good the majority of the audience was majority normies so they'd never

1001
01:17:00,723 --> 01:17:07,203
ever kind of seen bitcoin working in in real life before do you know what i mean so i'd like to think

1002
01:17:07,203 --> 01:17:13,503
it was everyone's first all the normies in there it was their first true experience of bitcoin and

1003
01:17:13,503 --> 01:17:22,023
and it being used as a tool for good you know um but yeah so from that one show we obviously got a

1004
01:17:22,023 --> 01:17:28,863
live stream we got an income from the live stream i then took the audio file we got that remastered

1005
01:17:28,863 --> 01:17:35,423
um and then i released that as a live album into the value verse which all of the guys with radio

1006
01:17:35,423 --> 01:17:43,183
shows you know homegrown hits upbeats mutton mead and music they all played live tracks from the

1007
01:17:43,183 --> 01:17:50,803
show which people who may have missed the show then boosted in so you know to to this day that

1008
01:17:50,803 --> 01:17:57,203
that event that show is kind of you know making us making us some bitcoin do you know what i mean

1009
01:17:57,203 --> 01:18:05,083
um and and the hope is that that will obviously continue to rise in fiat terms forever so it's

1010
01:18:05,083 --> 01:18:09,743
one of my little kind of idioms is, you know, when you earn in Bitcoin, you earn forever.

1011
01:18:10,523 --> 01:18:14,723
Do you know what I mean? And I think through that one show, I think we've kind of proven that, you

1012
01:18:14,723 --> 01:18:24,123
know? Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, Aaron, that we had Oscar on the show on this on this show

1013
01:18:24,123 --> 01:18:31,063
on that day. And he was taking the I guess he was joining the pod from his hotel room. And we had to

1014
01:18:31,063 --> 01:18:35,323
end a little early because he said, look, I've got to go. I've got to go to the into the value

1015
01:18:35,323 --> 01:18:42,103
show. So that that is my my one connection to that. Ah, OK. Yeah, no, that's cool. You know,

1016
01:18:42,163 --> 01:18:48,263
Oscar was in the room with us. He was there zapping the artists as well. Yeah, no, the

1017
01:18:48,263 --> 01:18:52,843
fountain have been like big supporters of what you know, what we're trying to do over here in

1018
01:18:52,843 --> 01:18:59,903
the value verse. And, you know, Bitcoin being open source and everyone building tools,

1019
01:18:59,903 --> 01:19:02,903
Fountain's great but still

1020
01:19:02,903 --> 01:19:04,643
a podcast player first

1021
01:19:04,643 --> 01:19:06,983
what we're seeing now

1022
01:19:06,983 --> 01:19:09,103
through Chad F

1023
01:19:09,103 --> 01:19:10,443
and through Sir Libre

1024
01:19:10,443 --> 01:19:12,823
is they're bringing out

1025
01:19:12,823 --> 01:19:15,103
these apps now which are

1026
01:19:15,103 --> 01:19:16,963
kind of value verse

1027
01:19:16,963 --> 01:19:19,023
music, V4V music

1028
01:19:19,023 --> 01:19:21,043
first players

1029
01:19:21,043 --> 01:19:22,943
so there's one at

1030
01:19:22,943 --> 01:19:25,563
v4vmusic.com

1031
01:19:25,563 --> 01:19:26,983
that's a

1032
01:19:26,983 --> 01:19:29,063
value verse player, that's being written

1033
01:19:29,063 --> 01:19:34,543
by Sir Libre. And I want to give Chad F a shout out as well, because he's got one called

1034
01:19:34,543 --> 01:19:42,383
Stablecraft. Chad F, oh, he's in the chat. He'll correct me if I'm not wrong. But I think

1035
01:19:42,383 --> 01:19:50,323
it's Stablecraft and he's creating one as well. So yeah, I think once we've got some

1036
01:19:50,323 --> 01:19:58,183
apps that are music only as well um i think that that will give us a another

1037
01:19:58,183 --> 01:20:04,643
you know a kind of another easier adoption adoption method method to it but ultimately

1038
01:20:04,643 --> 01:20:09,483
you know this is this is what space is all about every if it's not been built yet someone will

1039
01:20:09,483 --> 01:20:16,483
build it you know and then i've heard of uh apps being i don't know if these are uh stable craft

1040
01:20:16,483 --> 01:20:20,023
and the others you mentioned are NOSTA apps or not.

1041
01:20:21,123 --> 01:20:23,863
The one Surlibre, you said, is building.

1042
01:20:24,323 --> 01:20:25,783
I don't know if those are NOSTA apps or not.

1043
01:20:26,163 --> 01:20:27,603
I mean, I don't know.

1044
01:20:27,963 --> 01:20:29,383
I'll wait for them to correct me.

1045
01:20:29,863 --> 01:20:34,963
But I do believe there are people building similar things on NOSTA as well.

1046
01:20:36,183 --> 01:20:42,523
And hopefully with some kind of bridge between RSS and NOSTA

1047
01:20:42,523 --> 01:20:44,483
because that's somehow...

1048
01:20:44,483 --> 01:20:46,223
And this is something I don't fully understand.

1049
01:20:46,363 --> 01:20:47,163
Aaron, maybe you do.

1050
01:20:48,283 --> 01:20:50,363
There seems to be a schism forming,

1051
01:20:50,523 --> 01:20:52,103
and it's been around for a while,

1052
01:20:52,263 --> 01:20:55,863
between the RSS...

1053
01:20:55,863 --> 01:20:59,163
I guess, I suppose, the RSS first crowd

1054
01:20:59,163 --> 01:21:00,743
and the NOSTA first crowd.

1055
01:21:01,303 --> 01:21:03,583
And I think it has something to do with Keysend,

1056
01:21:04,083 --> 01:21:05,663
the flavor of lightning.

1057
01:21:06,883 --> 01:21:08,883
I haven't fully understood this.

1058
01:21:08,883 --> 01:21:11,623
I don't understand why there needs to be a schism.

1059
01:21:12,683 --> 01:21:14,003
We're on the same team.

1060
01:21:14,483 --> 01:21:21,383
But do you understand this, I guess, potential tension between these two groups?

1061
01:21:21,963 --> 01:21:26,063
Yeah, I try not to get involved in much of that.

1062
01:21:26,163 --> 01:21:37,763
But my understanding of it is, you know, when we first started this project about a year ago, there was probably about 12 to 15 music shows out there.

1063
01:21:39,383 --> 01:21:43,643
And Keysend is obviously kind of like linked direct to the nodes.

1064
01:21:43,643 --> 01:21:47,103
and it kind of worked beautifully.

1065
01:21:47,503 --> 01:21:53,403
But Oscar explained it to me that if we want true mass adoption,

1066
01:21:53,603 --> 01:21:56,263
we need to get Lightning URL in there somehow

1067
01:21:56,263 --> 01:22:00,863
because that's how Strike and Cash App and all of these other apps

1068
01:22:00,863 --> 01:22:03,003
will interact with the Lightning network.

1069
01:22:03,143 --> 01:22:05,483
It will be through Lightning addresses and whatnot.

1070
01:22:06,983 --> 01:22:09,303
So that really kind of...

1071
01:22:09,303 --> 01:22:13,183
I don't really know the schism, like you call it the schism.

1072
01:22:13,643 --> 01:22:21,263
All I know is that we just want interoperability and we don't want ideologies.

1073
01:22:21,603 --> 01:22:28,423
We just need something that works, that's kind of path of least resistance for the most people to get involved.

1074
01:22:30,023 --> 01:22:36,843
And obviously the changes from GetAlbi, because obviously a lot of things broke when they went to,

1075
01:22:37,623 --> 01:22:40,543
they changed their entire format as well.

1076
01:22:40,543 --> 01:22:46,583
A lot of people were using GetAlbi wallets in order to receive their sats and stuff like that.

1077
01:22:47,103 --> 01:22:50,063
So there was a few things that broke.

1078
01:22:51,243 --> 01:22:54,263
So yeah, I think the NOSTA only, the RSS.

1079
01:22:54,383 --> 01:22:57,503
I was talking to Derek Ross actually at BitFest last week.

1080
01:22:58,123 --> 01:23:00,943
And he was talking, and maybe this is where it comes from.

1081
01:23:00,983 --> 01:23:04,003
He was talking about, you know, let's do it all on NOSTA.

1082
01:23:04,383 --> 01:23:06,463
NOSTA is going to be the future and all of that.

1083
01:23:07,103 --> 01:23:09,963
But then Julie Costello brought up a great point.

1084
01:23:09,963 --> 01:23:12,703
and it's like, well, if we were going to get all of Ainsley's fans

1085
01:23:12,703 --> 01:23:14,863
onto NOSTA to listen to her music,

1086
01:23:15,163 --> 01:23:19,863
because it's censorship-resistant and because anything goes on NOSTA,

1087
01:23:19,889 --> 01:23:27,469
Is it really wise to get, like, you know, kind of young people, young adults, you know, surrounded by that content?

1088
01:23:27,709 --> 01:23:28,449
I don't know.

1089
01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:35,669
You know, these are problems and issues that I think will work themselves out.

1090
01:23:36,289 --> 01:23:43,629
You know, whether there'll be a filtering system, whether there'll be a NotzvCore thing on terms of, like, NOSTA, who knows.

1091
01:23:43,629 --> 01:24:00,869
But yeah, I think these are healthy conversations and I think they are fundamentally good because they give everybody the opportunity to kind of build their things how they see fit.

1092
01:24:00,869 --> 01:24:07,889
And like I say, for the normie, we just need things that work and are compatible.

1093
01:24:08,529 --> 01:24:12,609
And, you know, I wish everyone could get along.

1094
01:24:12,789 --> 01:24:14,669
But, you know, sometimes that isn't possible.

1095
01:24:14,829 --> 01:24:17,969
Sometimes you have to, you know, fight your corner a bit, you know.

1096
01:24:19,369 --> 01:24:20,189
Yeah, fair enough.

1097
01:24:20,989 --> 01:24:22,129
So, Aaron, what's next?

1098
01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:26,189
What is the next Valley for Value event that you're planning?

1099
01:24:26,189 --> 01:24:34,769
any musicians you've set your sights on to nudge into our world oh that's a that's yeah that's

1100
01:24:34,769 --> 01:24:39,649
really interesting you've asked me that because last week i was talking to shadrach and he was

1101
01:24:39,649 --> 01:24:47,709
telling me that his wife knows colin greenwood from radiohead all right said yeah he said to me

1102
01:24:47,709 --> 01:24:53,369
He said, maybe if you wrote a letter, I could maybe get it to him somehow.

1103
01:24:53,369 --> 01:24:57,429
So, yeah, set your sights high, mate.

1104
01:24:58,229 --> 01:25:00,389
So, yeah, I mean, that'd be amazing.

1105
01:25:00,569 --> 01:25:05,149
But no, really, my NOSTA's open, my Twitter feed's open.

1106
01:25:05,429 --> 01:25:13,729
If anyone wants me to help them get into the value verse in any way, I'm quite willing to do all that for them.

1107
01:25:14,449 --> 01:25:17,469
I've got a Bitcoin meetup planned this Wednesday.

1108
01:25:17,709 --> 01:25:22,249
at a new music venue that I've onboarded,

1109
01:25:22,289 --> 01:25:24,989
and they actually accept Bitcoin as well.

1110
01:25:25,469 --> 01:25:28,389
So that's going to be at Peggy Sue's this Wednesday night.

1111
01:25:28,389 --> 01:25:32,189
So if anyone's in Essex, Peggy Sue's in Leon C.

1112
01:25:32,269 --> 01:25:33,669
We'll be having a Bitcoin meetup,

1113
01:25:33,789 --> 01:25:37,389
and I am going to be getting a couple of value-for-value artists

1114
01:25:38,069 --> 01:25:40,829
in there playing for us for the evening as well.

1115
01:25:40,889 --> 01:25:41,689
So that should be good.

1116
01:25:41,689 --> 01:25:49,029
I know Longy has a gig planned just before Christmas also

1117
01:25:49,029 --> 01:25:50,989
I think December the 21st

1118
01:25:50,989 --> 01:25:52,969
I think that may also be at Peggy Sue's

1119
01:25:52,969 --> 01:25:53,809
so that should be a good one

1120
01:25:53,809 --> 01:26:11,428
I hoping to have another Valueverse event at the Fickle Pickle early next year q1 i not putting any dates on it just yet um i have to see what my calendar allows for in january um but yeah so i got

1121
01:26:11,428 --> 01:26:16,488
i want to do another value verse event um at the fickle pickle next year maybe slightly different

1122
01:26:16,488 --> 01:26:23,388
lineup um i'll keep that under my hat at the moment the conferences in june that sounds amazing

1123
01:26:23,388 --> 01:26:30,588
if we could do you know warsaw prague and belgrade that'd be phenomenal but no i'm just plodding

1124
01:26:30,588 --> 01:26:36,408
along mate you know i'm just plodding along trying to um bring as many musicians to the

1125
01:26:36,408 --> 01:26:41,788
value verse as possible and like i say i'm quite excited for next week because that was the news i

1126
01:26:41,788 --> 01:26:49,428
was going to drop the news i'm i'm dropping is south end city radio have asked me to go in and

1127
01:26:49,428 --> 01:26:54,688
not only get them on NOSTA, but show them how to tap into the Valueverse

1128
01:26:54,688 --> 01:27:00,328
and maybe using, you know, Valueverse artists in their daily schedule.

1129
01:27:01,668 --> 01:27:07,228
So, you know, that's probably the first example of, you know,

1130
01:27:07,288 --> 01:27:12,248
the Valueverse crossing paths with the Fiat Legacy system in a way.

1131
01:27:13,068 --> 01:27:16,208
So, yeah, more of that, please.

1132
01:27:17,408 --> 01:27:17,968
Oh, brilliant.

1133
01:27:17,968 --> 01:27:25,208
so you're going to be a busy man for the foreseeable future Aaron yeah I'm very lucky

1134
01:27:25,208 --> 01:27:32,288
I've been in Bitcoin for quite a while um so it's not like I need to like break my neck

1135
01:27:32,288 --> 01:27:40,808
mine in fear all day long so I mean I work part-time for um a hairdressing academy men's

1136
01:27:40,808 --> 01:27:46,848
hairdressing federation um so I work a couple of days a week for them I've got another side hustle

1137
01:27:46,848 --> 01:27:53,828
business which is an online business that I work it's a family business that kind of runs itself

1138
01:27:53,828 --> 01:28:01,928
in the background needs minimal minimal kind of interruption from me and then you know the other

1139
01:28:01,928 --> 01:28:07,848
I suppose two two and a half days a week that I've got left I mean because I used to be a stay-at-home

1140
01:28:07,848 --> 01:28:14,548
dad for like quite a few years now my daughters are kind of 16 18 ones at university they're flying

1141
01:28:14,548 --> 01:28:23,348
the nest so i'm basically garnering back my time and um yeah i i i just love doing this this whole

1142
01:28:23,348 --> 01:28:31,368
music side project thing um so yeah i'm going to be busy on board and as many many artists as

1143
01:28:31,368 --> 01:28:51,427
possible in the in the foreseeable so yeah long may that continue indeed and you and you Certainly doing an incredible job Aaron Do have a link for the uh event on monday you said right uh yeah it be on my nostre uh you can go to my twitter handle

1144
01:28:51,427 --> 01:28:58,427
as well if i put it on twitter i think i've just popped it on orange pill apps as well

1145
01:28:58,427 --> 01:29:01,267
yeah it's a free event

1146
01:29:01,267 --> 01:29:03,507
no tickets required

1147
01:29:03,507 --> 01:29:06,167
but yeah certainly give me a shout out

1148
01:29:06,167 --> 01:29:07,087
if you're going to pop along

1149
01:29:07,087 --> 01:29:09,187
excellent

1150
01:29:09,187 --> 01:29:10,527
anything else?

1151
01:29:10,987 --> 01:29:13,327
any last thing you want to plug Aaron?

1152
01:29:14,547 --> 01:29:17,047
yeah the last thing I want to plug really

1153
01:29:17,047 --> 01:29:17,827
is

1154
01:29:17,827 --> 01:29:20,127
I want to see

1155
01:29:20,127 --> 01:29:21,687
in 2026

1156
01:29:21,687 --> 01:29:23,127
the first UK

1157
01:29:23,127 --> 01:29:25,207
music podcast

1158
01:29:25,207 --> 01:29:32,387
there's a lot of people in the space that are all kind of you know oh I want to get a bitcoin job I

1159
01:29:32,387 --> 01:29:37,367
would love to you know earn bitcoin for doing something that I like to do well there's nothing

1160
01:29:37,367 --> 01:29:44,967
stopping you anybody out there creating a music podcast using all the music that's available

1161
01:29:44,967 --> 01:29:52,027
we need more of them at the moment it's mainly America that have got a kind of monopoly on all

1162
01:29:52,027 --> 01:29:58,187
the music podcast at the moment so it'd be great if if someone had you know half a day a week where

1163
01:29:58,187 --> 01:30:03,587
they could learn to how to do it and and then there's tutorials out there the guys you know

1164
01:30:03,587 --> 01:30:10,927
the guys chad f and sir lee brave they've all created um documentation shows you how to use

1165
01:30:10,927 --> 01:30:19,147
these tools like the split kit and sovereign feeds.com in order to make your show um

1166
01:30:19,147 --> 01:30:31,047
I would love to see somebody pick up the baton from the Americans and go into making a UK-based value-for-value.

1167
01:30:31,207 --> 01:30:32,087
And not just UK.

1168
01:30:32,447 --> 01:30:40,667
If there's anyone in France, if there's anyone in Germany, if there's anyone in Australia, you should be making your own music shows.

1169
01:30:40,667 --> 01:30:43,827
You can earn Bitcoin for it.

1170
01:30:44,087 --> 01:30:47,987
You can become a bit of a Bitcoiner on the scene.

1171
01:30:47,987 --> 01:30:52,547
I think the opportunity is there and you can do it without anyone's permission.

1172
01:30:52,927 --> 01:30:57,147
The music's there. Go and use it. Go and take it and go and share it with others.

1173
01:30:57,867 --> 01:31:00,647
So that's really what I'd like to see in 2026.

1174
01:31:00,887 --> 01:31:06,467
I'd love to see a few more music podcasts pop up in and around the globe.

1175
01:31:07,007 --> 01:31:10,887
Well, you heard it here, folks. This is a true call to action.

1176
01:31:11,467 --> 01:31:14,927
It doesn't take much. You just need a nice microphone.

1177
01:31:14,927 --> 01:31:27,805
there documentation out there on how to do the splits By the way Aaron something that I will look into now that you mentioned it because I have been curious and it not something I paid too much attention to which is playing music on this show

1178
01:31:27,805 --> 01:31:32,745
and then figuring out how to zap the appropriate amount

1179
01:31:32,745 --> 01:31:38,185
to the artists or when we get boosts or whatever it is,

1180
01:31:38,185 --> 01:31:41,845
how we redirect that to the artists themselves.

1181
01:31:42,345 --> 01:31:45,745
So some light homework reading for me.

1182
01:31:46,985 --> 01:31:49,825
Well, the guys in this space are very helpful.

1183
01:31:50,065 --> 01:31:57,385
So if you need any help with any of that, I'm sure Chad F., I'm sure Sir Libre, I'm sure Salty Crown,

1184
01:31:57,665 --> 01:32:02,585
they'll all give you a heads up how to do it, how to incorporate music in it.

1185
01:32:02,665 --> 01:32:09,605
I know this week in Bitcoin, which is one of the top supported shows on Fountains, regularly number one,

1186
01:32:10,265 --> 01:32:14,245
they played Longy last week and it's just right at the end of the show.

1187
01:32:14,245 --> 01:32:17,745
You know, they're just shining a light on value for value artists.

1188
01:32:17,885 --> 01:32:21,425
And Longy's tune got played last week at the end of their show.

1189
01:32:21,925 --> 01:32:28,645
So, you know, Longy would have earned maybe 10,000, 15,000 sats, I think, from making an appearance on that show.

1190
01:32:29,145 --> 01:32:33,525
And, you know, when you equivalent that to what he would have made in Spotify,

1191
01:32:33,625 --> 01:32:36,825
it would have taken him three months to earn that kind of money on Spotify.

1192
01:32:37,145 --> 01:32:37,745
Do you know what I mean?

1193
01:32:37,745 --> 01:32:42,925
So I think any exposure, any of the Bitcoin podcasts can get.

1194
01:32:42,925 --> 01:32:48,285
and it like i i believe it's it's it's pretty easy once it's like everything once you do it

1195
01:32:48,285 --> 01:32:56,405
once it becomes easy you know maybe i will aaron i've been inspired maybe i will feature one value

1196
01:32:56,405 --> 01:33:05,025
for value song per episode that'd be amazing yeah excellent well aaron appreciate you taking the

1197
01:33:05,025 --> 01:33:06,305
time and educating us,

1198
01:33:07,025 --> 01:33:09,065
you're one-man army

1199
01:33:09,065 --> 01:33:10,445
who's

1200
01:33:10,445 --> 01:33:12,405
nudging people gently

1201
01:33:12,405 --> 01:33:14,405
into this magical world,

1202
01:33:14,825 --> 01:33:16,705
and it sounds like you're about to

1203
01:33:16,705 --> 01:33:18,045
hit the motherlode

1204
01:33:18,045 --> 01:33:19,625
from the sound of it.

1205
01:33:20,525 --> 01:33:21,745
I hope that's true.

1206
01:33:23,405 --> 01:33:24,905
Yeah, appreciate you taking the time,

1207
01:33:24,905 --> 01:33:26,665
and to our audience,

1208
01:33:26,905 --> 01:33:28,845
I hope you were listening on a value-for-value

1209
01:33:28,845 --> 01:33:31,105
app like Fountain. If not,

1210
01:33:31,285 --> 01:33:32,125
it's never too late.

1211
01:33:32,885 --> 01:33:33,565
The next time,

1212
01:33:33,565 --> 01:33:36,285
you could do that

1213
01:33:36,285 --> 01:33:38,445
and our lively audience

1214
01:33:38,445 --> 01:33:40,785
on Nostra Streaming

1215
01:33:40,785 --> 01:33:42,105
Zap.Stream, Primal

1216
01:33:42,105 --> 01:33:44,645
whatever you were using to listen to the live stream

1217
01:33:44,645 --> 01:33:46,445
thank you for your vigorous

1218
01:33:46,445 --> 01:33:48,545
participation and all your comments

1219
01:33:48,545 --> 01:33:50,785
I think it added

1220
01:33:50,785 --> 01:33:52,045
a lot to the show

1221
01:33:52,045 --> 01:33:54,045
thank you everyone

1222
01:33:54,045 --> 01:33:56,665
and until next week

1223
01:33:56,665 --> 01:33:57,625
goodbye