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The signal is here.

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This is Blood Channel Radio.

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Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the lightning-laced airwaves.

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Today is Friday, the 6th of March, and it is 3.04pm on the East Coast of the United States.

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At the time of recording, this is episode 154 of Blockchain Radio.

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And today promises to be a fun one.

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Source Node returns to the show, and last time we talked about shadow work, and a lot of that.

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We'll see where the conversation leads this time.

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If you are hearing my voice right now on Spotify or Apple, thank you for listening.

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But also, welcome to the Legacy Feed.

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It's a reliable signal, but it's read-only.

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Over here on Fountain and Noster, the frequency is open.

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This is a value-for-value broadcast.

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There are no corporate scripts and no algorithmic nudges

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because the producers of the show, that's you, fuel the engine.

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If you want to move from passive listener to active participant,

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come join the signal on the V4V side.

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Now, let's set the table for the final word.

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We have an executive producer for this episode, as you will hear later in the show, but the EP chair for next week is currently empty.

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As always, the top booster secures the title and the right to close out the show.

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The rules of the board are simple.

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Ratify or rectify.

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In a few minutes, I'm going to lay out the sermon.

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If the message resonates, boost in to ratify it.

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Add your context and back it up.

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If I miss the mark, boost in to rectify it and set the record straight.

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The board is in session and the top supporter gets the mic.

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Let's get into it.

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Our sermon today is Weaponized Escapism.

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The desire to flee is the most rational response to an architecture designed for extraction.

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We exist within a system that systematically harvests our time and our attention.

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This machinery traps human potential in endless loops of manufactured outrage and quiet despair.

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The walls of this digital and economic enclosure feel suffocating.

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The instinct to locate an exit is a clear sign of a surviving spirit.

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We must recognize that the nature of the escape determines its ultimate value.

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There is a destructive path outward,

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characterized by the desperate attempt to simply numb the friction of modern existence.

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We see this retreat in the application of chemical salves and anesthetics used to quiet an anxious mind.

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We witness it in the surrender to the artificial achievements of video games, the shallow spectacles of pop culture, and the tribal distractions of mass sports.

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It manifests most insidiously in the passive consumption of digital feeds, trading our remaining agency for a fleeting dopamine response.

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This form of retreat simply hands the system a different kind of victory.

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It leaves the individual tethered to the very engine they sought to evade, mistaking a temporary cessation of pain for true freedom.

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A radically different trajectory exists.

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We can practice constructive escapism by exiting the noise through a state of profound, deliberate creation.

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Retreating into your craft severs the connection to the extraction machine.

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You reclaim the sovereignty of your own attention and redirect it toward building the world that comes next.

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The technologist writing code for decentralized networks is actively escaping the enclosure.

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They channel their desire for freedom into the immutable logic of new infrastructure.

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Every line of an open protocol acts as a brick in a new unassailable fortress.

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They build the lifeboats while the old ship takes on water

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The artist executes a parallel maneuver through a different medium

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The writer, the filmmaker and the musician retreat into the quiet spaces of their imagination to forge something beautiful

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By blending narrative with deep emotional texture

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They counter the despair of the matrix with a generative meaning

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A transcendent piece of art serves as a vital reminder of the human soul

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we are fighting to preserve that it provides the weary traveler with the inspiration required to

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keep moving forward turning away from the daily chaos is a requirement for survival

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we simply need to ensure our retreat is generative the impulse to escape can either dissolve your

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spirit or fuel your masterpiece choose to build the tools of our liberation or choose to create

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the beauty that makes that liberation worthwhile. The true exit is found through the uncompromising

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pursuit of your craft. And joining us today is a man who, at least the last time I checked,

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has indeed weaponized his escapism by focusing on his craft. Source Node, welcome back to

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Plep Chain Radio. Thank you. That was beautiful. Had a lot of good thoughts come up during that.

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I'm doing my best to

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liberate myself from the fiat matrix

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but I'm noticing more and more these days

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how many layers there are

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it's not as simple as dropping fiat currency

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it's a deep process

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oh yeah

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last week I did a sermon on how fixing the money is

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or just fixing the money is not going to fix the world

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you actually need to fix yourself first

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Right. Yes. Exactly. I'm actually writing a book and that's a big piece of it. Bitcoin doesn't fix anything. It gives us the tools that we can use to fix things, but it's up to each individual human spirit to do those things.

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and that is

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talking about that

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source note that is a form of escapism

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in and of itself which is

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you know in a sense

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giving your agency away to this

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messianic figure of

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Satoshi or Bitcoin right

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this sort of ethereal force

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actually no pun intended there I promise

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this sort of otherworldly force of

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Bitcoin and saying

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yes Bitcoin is here

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I'm on a Bitcoin standard I'm saved

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and that's not quite how it works you have to face your demons you have to do the work

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right yeah exactly i mean uh over the last two or three weeks i've been diving deep into the

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node debate that's going on and uh the conclusion i've reached is that we have just as much

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politics going on inside bitcoin as there is outside of bitcoin and uh it's up to us

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as a collective software community,

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if you want to put it that way,

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to figure out new ways to decentralize further

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so that this isn't possible.

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Yeah, that's a rabbit hole I've tried to avoid on the show.

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First of all, there are enough shows

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that are taking sides or not taking sides

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or playing both sides, whatever it is.

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And, you know, most of them doing it in good faith, thinking that their side or their position is the right one.

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But I actually don't see much constructive value at this point to lean into that debate in any manner.

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But let's actually talk about, you know, I was looking at the history of this podcast.

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because it felt like when we talked about you coming back on the show,

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I said, we've had him recently, haven't we?

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And I look back, it was August 2024.

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Can you believe that?

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What?

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It's been that long?

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That's wild.

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Isn't that crazy?

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I feel like it was not that long.

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I would have guessed maybe eight months if you had asked me off the cuff.

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Yeah.

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It's more like 16 months.

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That's crazy.

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I didn't know I was on Nostra that long.

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people ask me how long I've been on and I actually don't know. I know that I have never had an X

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account. I deleted my Twitter account when it was still called Twitter. So that gives me a general

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idea of when I joined. And I love the name of this podcast, PlebChain, because I remember that was

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early on. That's how I found everybody. I think I was still using astral.ninja or something to

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find everybody that I was following on Twitter. And the PlebChain was the way that. And honestly,

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i expected more bitcoiners to jump onto nostr i i've been continuously kind of surprised

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by the amount of resistance in the bitcoin community to nostr because it seems to me

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intuitively such such a great idea you know something i was waiting for for a long time

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so yeah i'm glad you're keeping the pleb chain alive you know i'm that's on the on more bitcoiners

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not joining NOSTA. It's something that mystifies

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me, honestly,

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because these two protocols are so

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aligned, so complementary.

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So you would think there'd be more

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of that. I mean, some

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of it could be

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perhaps some misguided

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technical

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concerns about NOSTA

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around relay centralization or that NOSTA

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is actually a distraction from

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Bitcoin and we should be focusing

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on Bitcoin. I've heard those arguments.

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you know yeah NOSTA

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it doesn't work in theory

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well it doesn't work in theory it works in practice

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we're here

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and we're using it

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but I'm sorry

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to say Sosno there is also an element

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of

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a lot of these big earners who don't want

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to come to NOSTA is because they don't want to give up

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the influence that they've

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built for themselves on X

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and that is

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in other words they are

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fiat wolves in sheep's clothing.

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Yeah, I guess it's kind of,

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it's like the golden handcuffs, right?

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You don't want to leave your corporate job

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because you can't find the same quality of life anywhere else,

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even if you've sold your soul.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, it's been a year and a half, man.

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It's quite, that's quite something since the last trip.

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Because even to me, it felt fairly recent,

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our last conversation.

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I remember we were talking about mattresses.

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You were looking for mattresses.

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And I sent you a video right before the podcast about, I think it was Max DeMarco who made a video about sleeping on the floor.

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And you'd given it a try, hadn't you?

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I did give it a try.

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And then I gave it a try and I posted a picture and people said that Max was trolling me.

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But then I contacted Max and he's like, no, I'm not trolling you.

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I really do this.

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But I should check in with him and see if he's still sleeping on the floor.

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That would be interesting to know if you stuck with it.

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You know, I get occasional lower back pain.

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And I tried the theory of sleeping on the floor.

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It didn't work.

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It didn't really work out.

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I mean, it wasn't better or worse.

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It just lying down isn't great when you have lower back pain.

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It just traps your back in that position.

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But I will say one thing that does make a difference,

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which is soft mattresses versus hard mattresses. Hard mattresses are a game changer. And I honestly

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think the entire mattress industry is a scam selling you all of these different levels of,

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you know, whatever it is they say, they try and upsell you on.

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Yeah, I've got a pretty firm mattress. I don't know where I would rank it, but

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I don't have much back pain now because I'm not as stressed. I think that was a big,

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the big piece for me, I read this book called the mind body prescription by John Sarno. And because

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I'd had this chronic back pain, I couldn't fix it. And I tried different mattresses. I tried all

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kinds of different wacky medical attempts. And it turned out it was just a internalized anger

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that was causing my back pain. That was the case for me. I mean, different people have different,

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different setups, but I think you're right. There there's definitely, I mean, we live in an economy

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that's mostly predicated on upselling things that people don't need.

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So it would make sense that mattresses were the same way.

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Yeah but on your point about lower back pain being a symptom of some sort of in your case it was stress or anger but for others it could be some other negative type emotion that manifesting in the form of back

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pain. I mean, you know, I was reading, I think it could be Joe Dispenza who talks about this.

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Maybe I'm getting the exact person wrong, but back pain is a somatic expression of

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of the feeling of carrying a burden right it's like when you feel burdened by things in life

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um too much responsibility whatever it is it does manifest uh as back pain so

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interesting how joe talk about it people are becoming much more aware of the link between

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their physical health their emotional health their mental health and right back to what we

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were talking about earlier this is why i'm only on nostre because i remember what my nervous system

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felt like on the day to day using X all the time.

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It was like I was constantly in fight or flight.

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I, and I don't actually know why.

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I don't know if it was the algorithm, if it was the culture of the site.

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But it doesn't really matter because I know what it's like over there and it's still like

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that.

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So, uh, and every Bitcoiner that I talked to, cause I do see a lot of Bitcoiners in person.

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I tell them, Hey, I'm not on Nostra.

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Do you think I'm missing anything?

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And not a single one of them has tried to convince me to come back to X.

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they've all told me that they wish they could do what i'm doing

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why didn't you do it it's not that hard well some of them run businesses and in that case like i

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could understand but uh yeah many of them i think are just addicted to the to the roller coaster

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yeah i you know and i try to uh keep my you know i've i have done i've done quite a bit of inner

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work on myself speaking of fixing yourself to before you even think about fixing the money and

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fixing the world yeah um and it's an ongoing process by no means a completed project uh one of

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that uh one of the aspects of that inner work was a recognition that something like a twitter feed

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the just the non-stop negativity the rage bait and so on um or being plugged into mainstream news

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whereas it really what is it it's all about war whether it's outside war internal civil war or

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someone fighting about something you know transgender this that uh i tend to internalize

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those things and it has a very significant impact on to start with my mood but then that manifests

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in my ability to actually do stuff,

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my productivity later on.

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And one of the unfortunate traps

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I fell into just this week,

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speaking of this inner work

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being a nonstop ongoing process

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for a lifetime,

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I plugged into the war that broke out.

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I was like, I need to find out

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what the hell's going on.

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Partly because we were,

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my family and I,

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we were transiting through Dubai

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just a week ago,

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just maybe five days before this nonsense began.

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Wow.

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And we'd spent some time there.

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And it was just, it was almost like this morbid curiosity saying,

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oh my God, we just survived.

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The bomb hit the airport or whatever, the shrapnel or whatever it was,

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hit the airport.

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We were there like four or five days ago.

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We were by that, you know, we had about a 12-hour break in Dubai during our transit.

250
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So we went through the city.

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We went to that Palm Jumeirah.

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where one of the hotels was hit.

253
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So out of this sort of morbid fascination,

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I kept plugging into the war just to see what was happening.

255
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And I did that for two days,

256
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and I just found myself getting angry and upset,

257
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snapping at people.

258
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It's not good, man.

259
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Talking about escapism, it's not good.

260
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Yeah, I definitely do find it interesting.

261
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There's many things about it that I think are important,

262
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And I do care about other people and history and all these things.

263
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But at the same time, I do monitor my attachment to outcomes, right?

264
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It's like I can see all the information, but it's when I suddenly get this idea that I know what needs to happen next.

265
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That's when I start or rather I don't want something to affect me negatively.

266
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One of those two things.

267
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That's when I can get out of whack personally.

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and uh yeah in general if i want to avoid um falling into those traps then i just don't

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take in that much information like i know it's happening if something's important i will know

270
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about it and and that's enough i don't need to think about it all day every day i have plenty

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of things to work on yeah for sure all right so let's talk about what you've been up to since

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last time you were on the show? What was the, I guess, the second half of 2024 and the whole of

273
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2025 like for you? Wow. Okay. So yeah, I moved to Austin, Texas to help Tor Demeester start a

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podcast, which was really fun. We built a studio. We got a few episodes in the can. It was really

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great getting to know the Austin Bitcoin scene. But then Tor and I both basically realized that

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podcasting is show business and we didn't want to be in show business. And also on top of that,

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uh, if you want to be successful with a podcast in, in other words, to make any, uh, income off

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of it, you need to bend to the algorithms. And so that was requiring, you know, clickbaity

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titles and cringe soy boy thumbnails. And, uh, so yeah, neither of us really felt great about that.

280
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And, uh, then at the end of my lease, I decided to move back to where I was living before. So

281
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I've been across the country and back and now I'm back on the East coast and, um, yeah, I don't know.

282
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Life is, is good. I'm writing a book. So that, that idea came to me when I was in Austin.

283
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and I'm probably two-thirds of the way through it, I would say,

284
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but it's kind of writing itself slowly.

285
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:33,510
And beyond that, I started working with a Bitcoin consulting company

286
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called Sovereign, and we helped to educate and onboard.

287
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Shout out Brandon Carpelli.

288
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Yes.

289
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Played the piano.

290
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Yes, great guy.

291
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Thank you.

292
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:44,210
Yeah, he is a great guy.

293
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:53,970
um yeah he uh he met me in nashville i'd done a panel there with some guys and when he found out

294
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that i had a sales background he invited me onto the team so now i'm working with sovereign and

295
00:20:59,370 --> 00:21:06,110
we're helping to teach businesses about bitcoin um yeah so lots of lots of little developments

296
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that kind of culminate into me basically living exactly the life that i set out to live five years

297
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ago, which is nice.

298
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That's great, man.

299
00:21:17,950 --> 00:21:22,790
So we'll get into your book and maybe what you're seeing with Sovereign.

300
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:27,070
But before that, I just want to go back to what you said about the podcasting industry.

301
00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:27,990
You're absolutely right.

302
00:21:28,790 --> 00:21:35,850
If you want to make money, make any kind of a living off podcasting, you cannot do, and

303
00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:42,130
if you're a semi-sentient, semi-intelligent individual who wants to talk about, you know,

304
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intelligent topics you actually can't do that right you you have to cater to uh clickbait and

305
00:21:50,150 --> 00:21:57,170
and all of that nonsense and it's there's no way you can make money if you just get up and start

306
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talking about philosophy and uh um and you know all all the topics that uh you're interested in

307
00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:11,830
which is why this podcast doesn't make any money it's something i've not compromised on um which is

308
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:16,970
You know, look, it's value for value and people who appreciate it do send the value back.

309
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And I do appreciate that.

310
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I am grateful for that.

311
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But I've, you know, avoided sponsors for that very reason.

312
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You know, it's just too much.

313
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:37,970
It's too much of an undertaking if you're trying to do something you actually enjoy.

314
00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:45,750
yeah um yeah we never got to the point where we were actually taking on sponsors i didn't do

315
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:54,190
sponsors on my lecture series i don't have any ads on it i really like the idea of bitcoin as

316
00:22:54,190 --> 00:23:00,250
basically a common stock in humanity right and so if we're holding that common stock and we do

317
00:23:00,250 --> 00:23:05,290
things that are good for humanity then the roi is in the collective benefit that we all get

318
00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:12,310
from it and and that is where i focus my time and energy now because it feels much more aligned to

319
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:19,930
my values um and and engaging in advertising uh if it was a product that i cared about or that i

320
00:23:19,930 --> 00:23:25,230
used or something that i might consider it but otherwise i i stay away from it personally so

321
00:23:25,230 --> 00:23:31,070
and and you're doing the same thing yeah and that's not to say that every single sponsor out

322
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:37,730
there is, you know, demands, you know, certain numbers and so on, right? I think there are,

323
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:43,970
I have heard from other podcasters who take on, you know, Bitcoin only sponsors, and they largely

324
00:23:43,970 --> 00:23:51,730
have a free reign to do it. The sponsors come in because they know that the show is aligned with

325
00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:57,110
their values, and you know, the show's uncompromising in its principles, and they like that.

326
00:23:57,410 --> 00:24:00,690
And, you know, we're not talking millions of dollars here, right? We're talking about a couple

327
00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:01,790
a thousand bucks a month.

328
00:24:02,430 --> 00:24:03,990
You're not making millions of dollars doing this?

329
00:24:04,790 --> 00:24:05,610
That's weird.

330
00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:09,550
Once we have sat,

331
00:24:09,790 --> 00:24:10,130
sent,

332
00:24:11,130 --> 00:24:13,030
or dollar sat parity,

333
00:24:13,550 --> 00:24:14,350
maybe,

334
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:16,590
on my zaps,

335
00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:18,090
on my zaps and boosts,

336
00:24:18,370 --> 00:24:19,970
that's where we would be.

337
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:20,370
But no.

338
00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:21,930
So,

339
00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:23,890
obviously there are sponsors

340
00:24:23,890 --> 00:24:26,150
who are principled

341
00:24:26,150 --> 00:24:29,030
and don't expect

342
00:24:29,030 --> 00:24:30,370
any kind of compromises.

343
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from the podcasters.

344
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But those are few and far between, I'd say.

345
00:24:36,670 --> 00:24:37,610
Right, right.

346
00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:43,670
So the book, you touched upon it a little bit.

347
00:24:44,270 --> 00:24:47,410
Maybe you're going to talk about fixing the money.

348
00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:51,530
Fixing the money doesn't automatically fix the world.

349
00:24:51,650 --> 00:24:53,350
But talk about the general premise.

350
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:54,570
Do you have a working title?

351
00:24:55,170 --> 00:24:56,670
I do have a working title.

352
00:24:56,670 --> 00:24:58,890
I haven't announced it on a podcast yet.

353
00:24:58,890 --> 00:25:07,150
I've told a couple of close friends about it, but I'm waiting. I'm waiting to, to release the title

354
00:25:07,150 --> 00:25:12,950
because I feel like it needs to come out with the book. That's, that's the way that the title

355
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:19,550
feels at the moment. And it'll make sense when you see it. But yeah, so I, I'm coming at the topic

356
00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:25,970
of, well, I'm coming at Bitcoin and life in general through the lens of integral theory,

357
00:25:25,970 --> 00:25:28,990
which is a term coined by Ken Wilber.

358
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:33,730
He's kind of a psychologist, philosopher, spiritual Buddhist guy.

359
00:25:33,970 --> 00:25:34,930
Interesting dude.

360
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:36,010
Wacky dude.

361
00:25:36,170 --> 00:25:40,110
Not somebody that I necessarily look up to, but I did learn a lot from him.

362
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:48,890
And I think that his theory, integral theory, has a lot of value to share with the Bitcoin space.

363
00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:52,690
And so I'm like weaving, I'm weaving integral theory in.

364
00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:55,350
Then I'm talking about ethics.

365
00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:57,770
And then that's the second chapter.

366
00:25:57,870 --> 00:25:59,030
First chapter is integral theory.

367
00:25:59,110 --> 00:26:00,070
Second chapter is ethics.

368
00:26:00,250 --> 00:26:04,170
Third chapter is about hyper Bitcoinization on a personal level.

369
00:26:05,310 --> 00:26:08,710
And the fourth chapter is kind of about where that could go.

370
00:26:09,630 --> 00:26:18,690
Because at a certain point, collecting money to pass on to your children isn't the highest goal of humanity, right?

371
00:26:18,770 --> 00:26:22,530
There are things that we could do right now in this moment to make the world a better place.

372
00:26:22,530 --> 00:26:27,990
and giving your children money does not necessarily make their lives better.

373
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:37,170
So what can we focus on to really build capital in a more holistic sense for the future?

374
00:26:37,450 --> 00:26:43,630
Building farms, creating community that supports people,

375
00:26:44,410 --> 00:26:52,350
creating child care and elder care and hospice solutions that are more...

376
00:26:52,530 --> 00:27:01,430
focused on the human element and less about making money, creating business models that are local,

377
00:27:01,670 --> 00:27:06,270
that are not about expanding, but rather about creating quality products. You know,

378
00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:10,770
these are the kind of ideas that I'm that I'm working with at the moment. And just to

379
00:27:10,770 --> 00:27:18,190
solidify that vision into my own head. So the the process of writing the book, in part is

380
00:27:18,190 --> 00:27:24,250
manifesting for myself the next goal, right? Because I said, if I if I look back five years

381
00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:30,210
ago, I've achieved all my goals. So now what I'm doing is I'm clarifying my goals as best as I

382
00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:36,330
possibly can in this book, while simultaneously sharing those goals with other people that might

383
00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:53,980
want to coordinate in reaching those goals So that really the purpose of the book but it just a meme I mean all books are memes you know You know I want to talk about the topic of personal

384
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:59,540
oh, hyper-bitconization at a personal level, because this is a really important one.

385
00:28:00,260 --> 00:28:08,860
And I think there are bitconers who get caught up in HODL culture and generational wealth.

386
00:28:08,860 --> 00:28:10,380
Those are memes too, right?

387
00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:10,880
Sure.

388
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:24,220
And I think there's a danger that those terms are so broad that they can lose their original meaning and sort of transition into a weird kind of dogma.

389
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:29,640
And so you talked about passing on wealth to your children.

390
00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:31,220
Is that always a good thing?

391
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:39,120
And in my mind, right, it's sure you can work yourself to the bone in a fiat job.

392
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:48,340
scrape your excess, you know, live well within your means, forego vacations, outings with your

393
00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:55,280
kids and so on and so forth. And then whatever excess sats you have, you sort of put them in

394
00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:02,480
Bitcoin, right? Keep hodling and saying, you know, when my kid turns 30 or 40, pick a number, right?

395
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:09,720
then this one Bitcoin I've scraped together with my blood, sweat, and tears

396
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,980
is going to be enough to set them free for life.

397
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:18,100
And while that might be true,

398
00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:21,840
I think a bigger question is,

399
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:24,480
like, you're here on this planet right now.

400
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,800
You have kids.

401
00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:29,440
What kind of a life do you want to live as a parent,

402
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,040
as someone who has a relationship,

403
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:39,740
with your children? Do you want them to remember you as the dad who was working nonstop and

404
00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:44,840
scraping away money? And then when they finally inherited it, he was dead because he worked

405
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:51,200
himself to the bone? Or do you want to be remembered, not even remembered, do you just

406
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:58,580
want to live that life in the moment, being there for your children, maybe going on that

407
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:02,200
that occasional vacation, all that outing, right?

408
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880
And maybe spending some of your stack while you're doing it.

409
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,740
And I think that that's, to me, it's a no-brainer.

410
00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:12,560
I'd rather be a good father, right, who's present.

411
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:13,860
Yeah, yeah.

412
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,960
As opposed to a dead father who's left my child, whatever, one Bitcoin.

413
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,120
That's worth 10 million when he turns 40.

414
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,680
Yeah, there are many different things that we pass on to the next generation.

415
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:51,500
One of them is is money. Another one might be property. Another one might be skills and knowledge. Another one might be emotional imprinting slash trauma, you know, so looking at the broad picture of our impact on the next generation, I think is easier when we're not scrambling for survival. Right.

416
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:56,900
and um of course i don't think there's anything wrong with inheritance i think inheritance is good

417
00:30:56,900 --> 00:31:03,600
um and it's funny i was just listening to an audiobook by carnegie i forget his first name

418
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:10,580
the the famous steel magnate carnegie and um uh i think dale carnegie is the one who wrote

419
00:31:10,580 --> 00:31:15,480
andrew there you go i think so yeah dale's the one who wrote how to influence people or something

420
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:45,460
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah. Carnegie wrote this book that was like weirdly socialist and my girlfriend and I were talking to her, we're listening to it. She might be listening right now. I sent her a link. So anyway, shout out to girlfriend. Um, I was kind of disappointed in Carnegie cause he was sounding very socialist, but now I just heard myself speak essentially the same sentiment of don't look at the same.

421
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,920
leave your money in an endowment, try to utilize it because you're the one who accumulated that

422
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:58,600
capital. Try to utilize it effectively in your lifetime. Um, I think he was arguing against

423
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:05,740
passing it on to kids though. So it was, uh, it was, yeah, it was a different kind of argument,

424
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:13,260
but is that a socialist sentiment though? Uh, what was he saying? Um, he said, there's three

425
00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:21,520
options you can pass it on to your kids like a monarch you can give it to the state oh no he was

426
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:29,400
he was arguing that the state should increase the um inheritance tax that was his argument he said

427
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:37,420
that's socialist yeah those people who are passing their generational wealth down from from family

428
00:32:37,420 --> 00:32:41,220
member to family member they should be punished by the state through taxes that's what he was arguing

429
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:48,460
and i totally fundamentally disagree with that oh yeah it's not a good solution but i i do

430
00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:54,080
understand the sentiment about allocating capital yourself rather than trying to leave it to an

431
00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:01,120
endowment or something i get that yeah it makes complete sense and you know you talked about

432
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,400
the things the productive things you could do with your capital right i'll

433
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:12,860
really taking matters into your own hands to some extent um you're talking about uh farming and

434
00:33:12,860 --> 00:33:21,360
some of the other things i would add art to the list as well because art has uh an incredible

435
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:29,780
ability to inspire people to do amazing things right so in there's a first order effect which is

436
00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:34,160
you look at it as beautiful and that's that's great right assuming that this is we're not talking

437
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:45,740
about, you know, this late stage fiat modernist art. But, you know, classical or maybe what I

438
00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:52,180
like to call postmodern, which is sort of this, if you follow the Hegelian arc, there was classicalism,

439
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,500
then there was modernism, which we're kind of in the late stage of now. And then the synthesis is

440
00:33:57,500 --> 00:34:04,460
going to be actual post-modernism uh that's my coinage by the way which is you know you strip

441
00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:11,940
away the dogma that classicalism had but you respect that pursuit of beauty um and um and

442
00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:19,080
you know you have this beautiful confluence beautiful synthesis um so let's so i think art

443
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,380
if it's if it's along those lines has this ability to inspire the first order of fact being just

444
00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:30,140
the appreciation of something beautiful but the second order effect being that appreciation has

445
00:34:30,140 --> 00:34:36,500
led to inspiration which then you know allows people to do more productive and constructive

446
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:41,860
things yeah i i actually that's uh that's brilliant i don't think about it very much but

447
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:48,020
if there's any addiction i have beyond stacking sats it's uh collecting art there's there's

448
00:34:48,020 --> 00:34:56,880
certain pieces of artwork that I really, really love. And I, and my house is full of art and I

449
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:02,080
don't regret buying any of it. I don't think about the trade-offs because I love having it. And I

450
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:08,720
know it's a unique piece. It's a real NFT. And it doesn't inspire me. I like being around beauty,

451
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:16,340
of course. So like right now I'm looking at this, this 3d printed Shrectopus, which inspired me to

452
00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:20,700
learn how to use cad so that i could i can make its legs all the same length

453
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:31,400
nice so what kind of art do you have you collected recently most of the art that i have is somewhere

454
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:38,300
between in um rather like pre-traditional

455
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:49,900
uh ornamental art so let's say like aboriginal dot art or um i really like

456
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:54,800
tibetan mandalas i really like stuff that

457
00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:04,580
looks almost psychedelic but it's not over the top psyche psychedelic 60s looking you know what i

458
00:36:04,580 --> 00:36:11,380
mean it's like it's got some class and some structure to it but it is kind of a window into

459
00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:18,140
the other side if that makes sense kind of like my looking profile picture i was gonna ask it's

460
00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:23,340
just gonna go there i was looking at your profile pic and and it seems it does appear like a mandala

461
00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:30,120
yeah it's actually a church window i think the photographer took a two took two mirrors

462
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,980
and their camera and took a picture between the two mirrors to make that shape.

463
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,460
But it's made from a stained glass window in a church somewhere.

464
00:36:44,420 --> 00:36:49,780
Actually, on that point, on church windows,

465
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:56,620
and just in general some of these more ancient monuments five, six hundred years ago, right?

466
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,320
And you see these incredible geometric patterns

467
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:05,300
whether it's in the sculptures themselves, the architecture itself,

468
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:11,000
or the stained glass windows, right, like your profile pic.

469
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:18,080
And it just makes you wonder, how was it possible without modern precise instruments

470
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:24,680
that these civilizations, 500, maybe even 1,000 years ago in some cases,

471
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,020
were able to create these incredibly intricate geometric shapes.

472
00:37:29,260 --> 00:37:32,180
Is that something you've looked into?

473
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,320
Because I know there are people with some interesting theories

474
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,560
about how all of that came about.

475
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,560
You know, I hadn't thought too much about the means by which they did that.

476
00:37:42,780 --> 00:37:46,720
I do know that if you look at like a mosque,

477
00:37:46,780 --> 00:37:51,600
a really old mosque in Iran or a really old church in Boston,

478
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:58,740
you're going to see similarly kind of psychedelic patterns on, on both of those structures.

479
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:05,120
And I find them absolutely beautiful. It's also in all the fiat money. I don't know if you've

480
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,660
looked at fiat money from all over the world, but they all have these kinds of sacred geometry

481
00:38:10,660 --> 00:38:17,380
structures in them. I have a friend, um, in Ireland, who's very, very into sacred geometry.

482
00:38:17,380 --> 00:38:21,340
he would probably be the person I would go to to ask right away.

483
00:38:21,340 --> 00:38:23,540
If you ask me that question, how did they do this?

484
00:38:23,540 --> 00:38:27,020
You know, did they do it through Pythagorean mathematics?

485
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:31,560
Were they just basically closer to the veil?

486
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,560
And so they're tripping all the time and they didn't need to draw lines.

487
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:35,960
They just could see the patterns.

488
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:36,580
I don't know.

489
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,560
You know, yeah.

490
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,760
Yeah, there are some interesting theories about it.

491
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,960
I mean, I haven't really gone down that rabbit hole.

492
00:38:47,380 --> 00:39:04,780
But, you know, talk about these ancient civilizations possessing tools and processes that for whatever reason have been suppressed over the last few hundred years by the powers that be.

493
00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:16,000
I'm trying to remember what, there's a, it's slipping my mind right now, but there's a name for those, there's a name for that civilization.

494
00:39:17,380 --> 00:39:19,720
and the technology itself.

495
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:24,580
I mean, all complete speculation, right?

496
00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:27,380
And some would even call it conspiracy theories.

497
00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:28,800
I don't know if it's a conspiracy theory,

498
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,580
but it's interesting stuff,

499
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,660
interesting stuff to ponder, that's for sure.

500
00:39:35,620 --> 00:39:37,580
Yeah, I think it communicates value

501
00:39:37,580 --> 00:39:39,500
in a way that we,

502
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,880
on a very deep intuitive level,

503
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,060
we understand it.

504
00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:49,440
when you see a very intricate ornamented carving on a wall,

505
00:39:49,860 --> 00:39:51,920
there's something more valuable.

506
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:54,300
Maybe it's the proof of work that we see in it,

507
00:39:54,340 --> 00:39:55,140
but it's more than that.

508
00:39:55,220 --> 00:39:59,580
It's also the beauty of the curves and mimicking nature

509
00:39:59,580 --> 00:40:05,100
and even adding on top of it in a way that can be preserved over time.

510
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,020
Yeah, it's amazing.

511
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,540
I'd love to see more of that.

512
00:40:08,820 --> 00:40:12,240
In fact, I think that when children doodle in class, for example,

513
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,940
it's basically like that urge kind of like pouring out of them

514
00:40:15,940 --> 00:40:20,740
while we're instead forcing them to learn things they don't need to know

515
00:40:20,740 --> 00:40:28,120
oh yeah and probably they get their wrists smacked for why i don't know

516
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:33,440
they do that literally these days but essentially told not to do it all right

517
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:40,800
right yeah it's a shame yeah it is a shame uh you know you were talking

518
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,060
you touched upon the

519
00:40:43,060 --> 00:40:45,320
node debate, the coordinates debate

520
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,300
that you sort of were looking into

521
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:48,920
we don't have to get into the debate

522
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,120
itself. Yeah, I understand

523
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:52,900
we don't need to get into it

524
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:55,400
we're only going to talk about it from a high

525
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,380
level. Yeah, yeah

526
00:40:57,380 --> 00:40:59,420
yeah, and that's kind of where I want to go

527
00:40:59,420 --> 00:41:00,700
which is

528
00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:03,120
I think one of the things you

529
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,400
we were chatting about offline is

530
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,640
you're thinking about how

531
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,320
Bitcoiners choose to

532
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:15,080
treat each other on the internet, right? And then ultimately how that ends up impacting the protocol.

533
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,280
And it appears that's something you've put some thought into. Yeah, yeah. I really like

534
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:27,140
Marshall Rosenberg's work on nonviolent communication. I know that the term nonviolent

535
00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:32,740
communication grates against people sometimes. And I was saying to somebody recently, it could

536
00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:47,470
just as easily be called cut the bullshit communication And it would mean the same thing It basically a way to get to the heart of the issue rather than talking around beating around the bush hurling accusations all of this

537
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:52,570
And so that's one avenue. And then the other avenue would be going down the philosophical route

538
00:41:52,570 --> 00:42:01,930
and looking at a discussion from the perspective of logic in an argument. And right now, I would

539
00:42:01,930 --> 00:42:09,610
love to see more of either, but I'm not seeing, I'm not seeing either one in, in most conversations

540
00:42:09,610 --> 00:42:15,110
that are happening around that topic. It's, um, it's a lot of ad hominem, meaning personal attacks

541
00:42:15,110 --> 00:42:21,390
against one's character, uh, rather than making an actual argument. And the meme that has, has

542
00:42:21,390 --> 00:42:27,650
been in my head about this is kind of like the, the two dogs barking at each other through a fence

543
00:42:27,650 --> 00:42:33,650
that's Bitcoiners on the internet, largely on X. And then when the fence opens and they just stand

544
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:40,350
there, that's Bitcoiners in person. And that has been my experience most of the time. Um, I honestly,

545
00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:45,270
I think the reason for this is because number one, there's a lot of people who are very passionate

546
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:49,690
about this and rightly so it's maybe the most important thing that's happening on the planet

547
00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:56,670
right now. And there's a small minority of humans that understand that and are working on it. Um,

548
00:42:56,670 --> 00:43:07,870
And then number two, I think that a lot of Bitcoiners are more sensitive maybe than they realize to being told what to do.

549
00:43:09,810 --> 00:43:14,510
Bitcoiners, people in general, I don't think like being told what to do, and especially Bitcoiners.

550
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:24,430
And then also, I think there's a there's a I mean, I think I know there's a paranoia streak that drives through the Bitcoin community.

551
00:43:24,430 --> 00:43:53,170
And I think it's a good thing. I think that it's there's a balance to be had between being completely naive and allowing things to just fall where they are and then constantly being on alert that everybody's out to get you. Right. Because both sides can have their own level of neuroticism. And so these are the different elements I'm looking at. And I'm watching these tendencies in myself and I'm watching these tendencies in others.

552
00:43:53,170 --> 00:44:06,150
And I'm like, oh, OK, maybe if we could facilitate more directive, productive conversations, we could cut through a lot of this without half the amount of drama.

553
00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:08,970
You know, that's that's what I'm thinking right now.

554
00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:17,590
And at the same time, I'm thinking that completely on my own and not forcing that opinion on anybody else, because that's fundamentally against what I'm after.

555
00:44:20,890 --> 00:44:21,370
Yeah.

556
00:44:21,370 --> 00:44:40,670
Yeah. And you know, just on a related note, this is a thought that, you know, I've been noodling over for a while now, which is, especially on the internet, people speak with incredible conviction and certainty about their side of the debate.

557
00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:49,650
I mean, and I wonder if they are actually like that in real life or maybe they temper their certainty a little bit in real life.

558
00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:50,170
Maybe not.

559
00:44:50,590 --> 00:45:02,670
But it's – and this is another reason why I don't jump headlong into not just this debate but other sort of –

560
00:45:02,670 --> 00:45:12,290
All the debates where there's, you know, you have two sides who, when you distill down the arguments that there is validity to both sides at some level.

561
00:45:12,490 --> 00:45:15,090
And then it's just a matter of finding which one works.

562
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:25,310
But if you show someone three, let's say you show them three points on a graph, right?

563
00:45:25,310 --> 00:45:28,650
And they're able to draw a straight line through it.

564
00:45:28,650 --> 00:45:35,790
and and they're going to be like you know what that's it there's this is a straight line it is

565
00:45:35,790 --> 00:45:41,130
y equals mx plus b it's a mathematical representation of it there is absolutely

566
00:45:41,130 --> 00:45:47,410
nothing more to it than that and anyone who says uh otherwise is a heretic and at one level

567
00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:53,850
that is right now it's you know throw in a fourth point that falls on on that same line and they're

568
00:45:53,850 --> 00:45:59,090
going to say that pattern is going to be locked into their mind saying look every point i see

569
00:45:59,090 --> 00:46:05,850
is on this line y equals mx plus b it is a straight line period end of story again from that

570
00:46:05,850 --> 00:46:13,850
perspective the pattern recognition that they've done is completely valid but there are also

571
00:46:13,850 --> 00:46:20,470
possibly limits to their cognition what they're perceiving as a two-dimensional surface and these

572
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:29,850
things as points and the line that's connecting them could actually be an n-dimensional surface

573
00:46:29,850 --> 00:46:35,270
which they are they're not able to perceive any dimensions above one and two right and what they're

574
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:42,190
actually looking at is a hyperplane that just happens to create a straight line in the in the

575
00:46:42,190 --> 00:46:49,650
two-dimensional plane but over multi-dimensions it's something completely different and that's

576
00:46:49,650 --> 00:46:57,090
kind of i the you know that sort of broad thinking idea is what gives me pause before i dive headlong

577
00:46:57,090 --> 00:47:02,990
into it which is what are the limits of my cognition yes i'm able to see a pattern and

578
00:47:02,990 --> 00:47:10,330
and everything i've learned deductive reasoning what a praxeology whatever you want to call it

579
00:47:10,330 --> 00:47:18,470
is screaming at me that this is this is it but i also acknowledge that my cognition has

580
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:23,970
limitations and maybe i'm not able to perceive the higher dimensions in this thing so maybe it

581
00:47:23,970 --> 00:47:30,710
could be something else right yeah i think uh remaining open to the possibility that i'm missing

582
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:35,150
information is like a first principle for me because i know i don't know everything

583
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:42,530
in fact i know very little um but yeah a lot of people do come at discussions in general

584
00:47:42,530 --> 00:47:48,390
with a lot of certainty and i'm not sure if it's connected but so does the ai when i talk to

585
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:53,930
an LLM, it will often give you an answer with a lot of certainty and it's often wrong. So, uh,

586
00:47:53,930 --> 00:47:59,650
it could be that people are just copy pasting stuff from their LLM. I have no idea. Um, I don't

587
00:47:59,650 --> 00:48:07,150
know what's going on, but I think that humility is very important. I think that knowing that we don't

588
00:48:07,770 --> 00:48:12,930
know the answers is very important. And also I think faith is very important and knowing that

589
00:48:12,930 --> 00:48:17,950
there, there is an awareness, whatever you want to call it, there's an awareness that's greater

590
00:48:17,950 --> 00:48:23,790
than us that can see everything that's going on that, that we have no idea.

591
00:48:23,950 --> 00:48:25,450
We can't even comprehend that awareness.

592
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:33,190
And, um, I, I remind myself of that constantly as I'm navigating these difficult conversations

593
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:37,290
and people are screaming at me for both sides and I'm irritating them.

594
00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:43,810
And I'm like, well, I know like zooming out a bit, I know that this emotional experience

595
00:48:43,810 --> 00:48:46,030
that people are having is exactly what they need.

596
00:48:46,030 --> 00:48:51,170
and it's going to resolve itself in whatever way needs to happen.

597
00:48:51,610 --> 00:48:56,510
But I think also that if every Bitcoiner gets into a position

598
00:48:56,510 --> 00:49:00,090
where they're super arrogant and they think they're right about everything,

599
00:49:00,730 --> 00:49:02,210
it's not going to turn out well.

600
00:49:02,210 --> 00:49:04,830
It's just not a recipe for success.

601
00:49:07,650 --> 00:49:15,270
So let's, there's a related thread to this,

602
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:18,990
which is, so you have the Dunning, in some sense,

603
00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:20,410
that's what we're talking about,

604
00:49:20,430 --> 00:49:22,490
a variant of the Dunning-Kruger effect, right?

605
00:49:22,490 --> 00:49:26,030
Where people are, they don't actually know what they don't know,

606
00:49:26,170 --> 00:49:28,250
but because they don't know, they think they know everything.

607
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:33,090
And that's a problem because it just leads to

608
00:49:33,090 --> 00:49:35,890
not particularly constructive conversations.

609
00:49:36,450 --> 00:49:38,710
But then there's the reverse of the Dunning-Kruger effect,

610
00:49:38,910 --> 00:49:42,990
which is, I guess, some form of imposter syndrome, if you will,

611
00:49:42,990 --> 00:49:51,310
which is, because again, the scenario I described to you, right, where I pause because the first

612
00:49:51,310 --> 00:49:55,090
thought is, well, I'm looking at a two-dimensional space, maybe what if I'm not able to perceive the

613
00:49:55,090 --> 00:50:00,310
other end dimensions that are out there, right? And that can lead, it can lead to a form of

614
00:50:00,310 --> 00:50:05,130
paralysis, which is, well, what is the point? What is the point of taking a stand on anything?

615
00:50:05,230 --> 00:50:09,050
I don't know anything anyway. What are your thoughts on that?

616
00:50:09,050 --> 00:50:14,930
well the way that i tend to look at that is i have a flow chart i'm putting in my book and it's

617
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:21,270
basically this okay everything that exists is right now in the present moment there are from

618
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:27,870
based on my value system there are um things that are there are outcomes that are more favorable

619
00:50:27,870 --> 00:50:35,130
than others what can i do in this moment what do i have control over that can move me towards a

620
00:50:35,130 --> 00:50:40,370
more favorable outcome, something that I know is favorable, right? Like less suffering on the

621
00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:47,650
planet. Okay. What can I do in this exact moment to move me closer to that outcome? And that's

622
00:50:47,650 --> 00:50:54,370
basically how I plan every day now. I just, that's every moment of every day, unless I get distracted,

623
00:50:54,570 --> 00:50:59,490
you know, sometimes I get in my head or, uh, things aren't going great that day, but when I'm

624
00:50:59,490 --> 00:51:06,770
present, that's what I'm doing. Um, every moment that's happening, I'm minimizing nonsense and

625
00:51:06,770 --> 00:51:13,270
adding value as much as possible. So, um, it, it really does when you stick to the present moment,

626
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:18,250
uh, limit the options to the point where I, I don't get paralyzed.

627
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:27,150
Yeah, that is a, probably the wisest approach because I mean, the future doesn't really exist

628
00:51:27,150 --> 00:51:28,130
and the past is gone.

629
00:51:28,270 --> 00:51:29,470
All you have is the present.

630
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:32,230
And you can actually shape the future

631
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:34,250
by being present in the present.

632
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:35,050
Yeah.

633
00:51:35,330 --> 00:51:37,130
And you can shape it more favorably.

634
00:51:37,850 --> 00:51:38,110
Yeah.

635
00:51:38,350 --> 00:51:41,150
And sometimes people really want you

636
00:51:41,150 --> 00:51:42,950
out of your present moment.

637
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:46,070
You know, I'll get contacted by somebody

638
00:51:46,070 --> 00:51:50,750
who just really wants me to pick a side on something.

639
00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:53,510
And I say, no, no, I'm not.

640
00:51:53,650 --> 00:51:55,830
I'm not engaging in that, you know.

641
00:51:55,830 --> 00:52:00,990
what are you some kind of wuss come on man they'll accuse me of being too an agreeable wuss and i'm

642
00:52:00,990 --> 00:52:08,710
like well right now i'm disagreeing with you so is that agreeable or you know so what's what's

643
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:13,590
happening i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you i'm just refusing to play that game that tribal

644
00:52:13,590 --> 00:52:20,330
yeah i'm jumping into a camp because somebody that i respect said something game you've got

645
00:52:20,330 --> 00:52:23,910
hey you got to pick a side man you are are you with us or are you with the terrorists come on

646
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:29,850
oh man yeah exactly that i had that conversation with somebody this week who uh yeah

647
00:52:29,850 --> 00:52:34,790
it's it's entertaining at this point it doesn't irritate me anymore it's just

648
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:39,170
because i see myself in it you know and i and i get it

649
00:52:39,170 --> 00:52:47,770
isn't it interesting that once you've if you're again a semi-sentient

650
00:52:47,770 --> 00:52:51,390
being who's with, you know,

651
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:53,450
possible cognitive skills

652
00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:56,650
and you've sort of been on the planet long enough

653
00:52:56,650 --> 00:52:58,470
to start noticing these patterns.

654
00:52:59,310 --> 00:53:01,990
All it takes to get peace

655
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:03,830
or as you said, you know,

656
00:53:03,890 --> 00:53:07,430
take a step that would be more beneficial

657
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:09,690
is to notice the pattern.

658
00:53:10,170 --> 00:53:12,230
You see, you just notice it.

659
00:53:12,370 --> 00:53:13,510
Oh, I see what's happening.

660
00:53:14,230 --> 00:53:14,990
And that's enough.

661
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:16,550
A lot of people noticing a lot these days, yeah.

662
00:53:16,550 --> 00:53:24,110
the noticing is happening and I, and I like it. Um, yeah. And once we'll noticing the pattern,

663
00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:28,670
I don't think it's quite enough necessarily. You have to notice the pattern underneath the pattern

664
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:34,170
and then just keeps going infinitely. It's patterns all the way down, uh, like a fractal

665
00:53:34,170 --> 00:53:39,270
universe. But the, the number one pattern and the one that I bring myself back to all the time

666
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:46,430
is that my emotional attachment to things is what creates them. Uh, whether that's good or bad,

667
00:53:46,430 --> 00:53:55,670
and so i really focus on what am i focusing on you know um and i don't always do a good job like

668
00:53:55,670 --> 00:54:01,190
i think yesterday i played resident evil for four hours um probably not the best thing for me to

669
00:54:01,190 --> 00:54:06,670
focus on but i'm still you know i'm imperfect and i allow myself to have fun here and there

670
00:54:06,670 --> 00:54:08,510
or escape here and there when i want

671
00:54:08,510 --> 00:54:19,230
yeah a lot of noticing going on indeed um but maybe i don't know if but you're right i think

672
00:54:19,230 --> 00:54:26,710
you have to notice the noticing and then notice no yeah yeah noticing the noticing in myself

673
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:30,030
and noticing that the more i notice the more other people notice

674
00:54:30,030 --> 00:54:37,490
and just following the noticing deeper deeper internally get until you get to the source node

675
00:54:37,490 --> 00:54:44,430
right right exactly i mean i i was i was laying awake at night trying to think of what my nym was

676
00:54:44,430 --> 00:54:50,510
going to be and i was like well what am i and uh what what what am i that's that's not about me at

677
00:54:50,510 --> 00:54:57,910
all you know source node that's what we all are so yeah it's just uh it's just two words that

678
00:54:57,910 --> 00:55:05,850
you know encapsulate my understanding of humanity yeah all right so source node let's shift the

679
00:55:05,850 --> 00:55:12,710
atmosphere just for a moment. We're kind of approaching the one hour mark and it's time

680
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:19,130
for our Valley for Valley music segment. This next track is called Paper Bird and it's by a musician

681
00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:25,170
called Justin Lantrip, I believe from Idaho. And when I first listened to it, I immediately got

682
00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:32,090
some strong Jeff Buckley vibes. The vocal delivery has that soaring emotional depth that completely

683
00:55:32,090 --> 00:55:33,210
commands your attention. Just...

684
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:39,440
like Jeff Buckley. So sit back and let this one take over.

685
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:08,400
Oh, my thoughts wander past

686
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,920
Oh, them snakes in the grass

687
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:16,060
And when this is my man

688
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:19,440
Maybe Abe will make a cave

689
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,540
I'll just know that I am

690
00:56:23,540 --> 00:56:27,440
As much beast as man

691
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,740
And I can climb my teeth

692
00:56:31,740 --> 00:56:35,720
Throw emotions to the breeze

693
00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:38,980
Before they get ahead of me

694
00:56:38,980 --> 00:56:43,280
I try and I'll split my wings

695
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,540
If I were a paper bird

696
00:56:47,540 --> 00:56:52,660
I'd write these words inside

697
00:56:52,660 --> 00:56:55,660
Falls in my chest

698
00:56:55,660 --> 00:56:58,260
Catch the wind

699
00:56:58,260 --> 00:57:00,840
If I do fast

700
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,440
You can hold me in your hands

701
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:08,540
Feed me letters, love and hand

702
00:57:08,540 --> 00:57:11,720
I will eat them one by one

703
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:15,780
Singing back to you, darling

704
00:57:15,780 --> 00:57:19,620
I say in that taste

705
00:57:19,620 --> 00:57:23,420
I have much to extirate

706
00:57:23,420 --> 00:57:27,640
And I don't speak true as I can

707
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,320
How will I know work to defend?

708
00:57:32,820 --> 00:57:35,460
Make you take a timber in time

709
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:39,740
And sprinkle salt on your mind

710
00:57:39,740 --> 00:57:43,680
Don't ask why

711
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,540
You see how deep I can die

712
00:57:47,540 --> 00:57:51,500
Power paper bird

713
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:55,020
I write these words

714
00:57:55,020 --> 00:58:00,360
Inside the folds of my chest

715
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,960
Cast the wind and fire you fast

716
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:10,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah

717
00:58:25,020 --> 00:58:55,000
guitar solo

718
00:58:55,000 --> 00:59:20,000
Oh, I want it to change. So I call out to me. How much longer must I wait?

719
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:26,980
Look I crawl in

720
00:59:26,980 --> 00:59:31,000
A little thin

721
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:36,940
So pretty on high

722
00:59:36,940 --> 00:59:44,760
See you swing your legs

723
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,960
All proof I need

724
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,940
I call your name

725
00:59:52,940 --> 01:00:00,300
Cause I feel afraid

726
01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:08,640
No, I want it to change

727
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:16,520
So I call out to pray

728
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:24,040
How much longer must I wait?

729
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:54,880
support incredible independent art on the network source note have you heard justin

730
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:59,700
landtrip before i had not but i really enjoyed that it was good music to feed and pet my dogs

731
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:08,460
too during the break yeah did you uh i don't know if you got that jeff buckley vibe with the

732
01:01:08,460 --> 01:01:14,400
vocals obviously jeff buckley has an incredible range uh but for me something about the vocal

733
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:22,500
quality evoke that truthfully i don't know who jeff buckley is but i do need to get on wave lake

734
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:28,420
and hear more of the value for value artists i think um yeah thanks for inspiring me to check

735
01:01:28,420 --> 01:01:34,160
that out no there's there's quite a bit happening now and there's some really good talent out there

736
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:40,920
wave lake is a great place fountain uh the you know the once upon a time just a podcasting app

737
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,520
is now pushing very hard into the Valley for Valley music space.

738
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,280
The good news is it's mostly interoperable across Fountain, Wave Lake.

739
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:50,660
There are several others as well.

740
01:01:50,740 --> 01:01:52,680
And now people are vibe coding these things.

741
01:01:54,260 --> 01:01:55,180
So it's kind of cool.

742
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:57,620
And if you like a musician, you support them with Bitcoin, man.

743
01:01:58,900 --> 01:01:59,840
That's fantastic.

744
01:02:00,060 --> 01:02:02,240
Yeah, I'm definitely going to dive down the rabbit hole there.

745
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:04,280
Cool.

746
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:06,320
All right, so let's get back.

747
01:02:08,420 --> 01:02:10,220
Actually, let's talk about something else.

748
01:02:10,220 --> 01:02:14,200
we connected about offline a few days back.

749
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,640
And you're talking about the idea of,

750
01:02:18,220 --> 01:02:20,200
is Bitcoin truly immutable

751
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,600
or is it only as immutable as the market participants

752
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,960
who choose to run the software

753
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,940
and store their energy on the ledger is?

754
01:02:28,020 --> 01:02:30,140
And I suspect this is also coming out

755
01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:33,600
with some of the research

756
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:35,620
that you've been doing into the node debate.

757
01:02:36,580 --> 01:02:37,500
You want to talk about that?

758
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:39,100
Yeah, yeah.

759
01:02:39,100 --> 01:02:45,320
So what it comes down to for me is the matter of trust, right?

760
01:02:45,420 --> 01:02:48,480
We refer to Bitcoin as a trustless currency.

761
01:02:49,500 --> 01:02:54,440
But in reality, we have to trust people to use Bitcoin.

762
01:02:54,860 --> 01:02:56,100
We need to...

763
01:02:57,020 --> 01:03:00,000
Well, there are those among us who don't.

764
01:03:00,700 --> 01:03:02,120
Jimmy Song comes to mind.

765
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,300
I mean, he wrote programming Bitcoin.

766
01:03:04,460 --> 01:03:05,740
He knows how the code works.

767
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:07,280
He's not the only one.

768
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:11,200
But anybody who doesn't know how the code works, we do have to trust.

769
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:41,442
We trusting that the game theory is not going to allow the code to get corrupted But do we really know Do we really know what the code says what it does who involved in funding it and writing it and all these things I don And I don think anybody really does fully It not as decentralized and transparent as it could be And I don think that the outcome of this particular node battle is going to change that

770
01:03:41,442 --> 01:03:49,422
um it's it's just the way it is in terms of uh node implementations and so

771
01:03:49,422 --> 01:03:57,262
we what it comes down to and even let's assume that everything is decentralized right let's assume

772
01:03:57,262 --> 01:04:04,662
that everybody's running their own unique vibe coded implementation of their node software which

773
01:04:04,662 --> 01:04:10,202
actually could be a nightmare uh right now but in the future that could happen even then you're

774
01:04:10,202 --> 01:04:17,622
still relying on humanity to remain rational enough to continue running Bitcoin and not to

775
01:04:17,622 --> 01:04:25,742
mess it up. And so there is trust involved. And where that trust exists is in the rationality of

776
01:04:25,742 --> 01:04:35,322
the individuals who choose Bitcoin. And I do put my trust in that. But I'm not sure that that many

777
01:04:35,322 --> 01:04:39,482
other people would put it that way or say that they would also put their trust in that,

778
01:04:40,162 --> 01:04:41,262
if that makes sense.

779
01:04:42,382 --> 01:04:46,122
So you brought up the human element there, and that's an important one.

780
01:04:46,222 --> 01:04:48,402
But maybe I'll make a broader point.

781
01:04:48,842 --> 01:04:54,462
It could have been Der Gigi who wrote about this a few years back, that Bitcoin is not

782
01:04:54,462 --> 01:04:55,902
actually trustless, right?

783
01:04:55,902 --> 01:05:01,402
As we know, it's trust minimized and probably the most trust minimized of all of these protocols

784
01:05:01,402 --> 01:05:02,222
that's out there.

785
01:05:02,302 --> 01:05:03,982
Because, I mean, you're trusting a lot of things.

786
01:05:03,982 --> 01:05:09,162
How do you know the hardware wallet you're using doesn't have some kind of backdoor in it?

787
01:05:09,342 --> 01:05:13,462
How do you know the ASIC you're mining with doesn't have some issues there?

788
01:05:14,002 --> 01:05:15,082
And so on and so forth.

789
01:05:15,542 --> 01:05:23,342
But at some level, you're making a judgment there because you cannot verify every single thing by yourself.

790
01:05:23,422 --> 01:05:24,242
It's just not possible.

791
01:05:24,802 --> 01:05:27,722
No, there's a division of labor for a reason.

792
01:05:28,022 --> 01:05:33,882
Carl Sagan famously said, if you want to make a cherry pie from scratch, you have to invent the universe first.

793
01:05:33,982 --> 01:06:00,562
Right. That's right. So, I think that there is that overarching idea that Bitcoin is not actually fully trustless. It's trust minimized and probably of everything out there, the most trust minimized. Now, the question is, is that good enough? At least you and I have made that call and we've said yes for now.

794
01:06:00,562 --> 01:06:09,742
So, yeah, I've said yes enough to put 99% of my net worth into the protocol and I don't have any plans of changing that.

795
01:06:09,942 --> 01:06:15,722
So I would say I trust it that much and I trust it that much more than anything else.

796
01:06:17,602 --> 01:06:18,122
Yeah.

797
01:06:18,122 --> 01:06:31,122
so how did you your uh i guess your uh research or whatever you want to call it into the node

798
01:06:31,122 --> 01:06:40,702
debate sort of inform um this idea right that did it impact that level of trust at all yeah i would

799
01:06:40,702 --> 01:06:49,162
say it did because once I found myself in two telegram groups, one with core people and one

800
01:06:49,162 --> 01:06:54,642
with knots people and talking to both of them, I realized we're all just people. Right. And I think

801
01:06:54,642 --> 01:07:05,722
that, um, the, a lot of Bitcoiners, um, all across the spectrum from influencer to pleb, whatever

802
01:07:05,722 --> 01:07:12,642
spectrum you want to imagine for yourself, the, uh, a lot of people kind of lose sight of that.

803
01:07:12,642 --> 01:07:19,102
And they think this is an, uh, immutable thermodynamic law of nature, you know, and in

804
01:07:19,102 --> 01:07:24,022
some ways it is, but actually it's not, it's a software program. It's an open source software

805
01:07:24,022 --> 01:07:31,982
program that is being written and run by individuals with names and flesh and bones.

806
01:07:31,982 --> 01:07:36,242
And I think there maybe is an argument for ossification.

807
01:07:36,942 --> 01:07:46,002
And I and I enjoyed that conversation because, frankly, everything that Bitcoin needed to do for me was achieved five years ago.

808
01:07:47,122 --> 01:07:54,502
And sometimes, you know, adding more paint to a painting, you ruin it.

809
01:07:54,802 --> 01:07:57,862
And so it could be that it's time.

810
01:07:58,022 --> 01:08:00,922
It's time for us to just focus on other things.

811
01:08:00,922 --> 01:08:04,862
when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail and when you're a dev everything looks like a

812
01:08:04,862 --> 01:08:11,062
technology problem um and and there are there are still bugs in the code that are coming up i think

813
01:08:11,062 --> 01:08:18,682
in year 2100 or something there's a bug that needs to be fixed but beyond that um i'm more in favor of

814
01:08:18,682 --> 01:08:25,582
just leaving things how they are so that's uh that's that's kind of where i've landed with it

815
01:08:25,582 --> 01:08:30,562
and at the same time i haven't come across anything leaning one way or another that gives

816
01:08:30,562 --> 01:08:36,662
me the impression that bitcoin is under actual threat and that anything fun is fundamentally

817
01:08:36,662 --> 01:08:46,282
broken or going to break and so i'm not actually worried about anything um yeah yeah on the

818
01:08:46,282 --> 01:08:54,142
technology side i'd agree with you i think there's a there is a risk at the social layer if you will

819
01:08:54,142 --> 01:08:55,922
because ultimately

820
01:08:55,922 --> 01:08:58,582
Bitcoin can be

821
01:08:58,582 --> 01:08:59,882
what it is

822
01:08:59,882 --> 01:09:01,182
but if

823
01:09:01,182 --> 01:09:05,062
all of the operators or a large enough

824
01:09:05,062 --> 01:09:06,402
number of the operators

825
01:09:06,402 --> 01:09:08,002
and when I say operators it could be anyone

826
01:09:08,002 --> 01:09:09,882
people who just transact in it

827
01:09:09,882 --> 01:09:11,962
are

828
01:09:11,962 --> 01:09:14,742
locked into a pattern

829
01:09:14,742 --> 01:09:16,742
that

830
01:09:16,742 --> 01:09:18,782
is

831
01:09:18,782 --> 01:09:20,062
not beneficial

832
01:09:20,062 --> 01:09:22,862
I guess we'll have to qualify what I mean

833
01:09:22,862 --> 01:09:23,702
by not beneficial

834
01:09:23,702 --> 01:09:25,122
I'll do that in a second.

835
01:09:25,402 --> 01:09:29,142
So I'll give an example here.

836
01:09:29,702 --> 01:09:37,182
With all this treasury company, ETF, and financial engineering

837
01:09:37,182 --> 01:09:40,582
that's been going on for the last year, year and a half now, right?

838
01:09:43,202 --> 01:09:47,442
A lot of the human layer, especially the new folks who've come into Bitcoin,

839
01:09:47,942 --> 01:09:52,502
have almost been siphoned into this mindset that Bitcoin is just a,

840
01:09:52,502 --> 01:10:02,002
you know just like any other asset uh and let's you know do do all these fancy things let's put it in

841
01:10:02,002 --> 01:10:09,122
in these different special purpose vehicles slice and dice it create or financialize it

842
01:10:09,122 --> 01:10:15,602
will financialize it as opposed to use it in its as you said what you referred to which is bitcoin

843
01:10:15,602 --> 01:10:21,862
doing what you needed it to do which is being accepted as money right and it works it works

844
01:10:21,862 --> 01:10:23,802
lightning does work

845
01:10:23,802 --> 01:10:24,942
yes it can you know

846
01:10:24,942 --> 01:10:27,682
you need some refinements and

847
01:10:27,682 --> 01:10:29,842
those are coming but the base

848
01:10:29,842 --> 01:10:31,162
layer itself works

849
01:10:31,162 --> 01:10:33,762
as money so

850
01:10:33,762 --> 01:10:37,822
I don't know if

851
01:10:37,822 --> 01:10:39,242
this new human

852
01:10:39,242 --> 01:10:41,742
or social layer of Bitcoin

853
01:10:41,742 --> 01:10:43,122
that's pushing

854
01:10:43,122 --> 01:10:45,642
more into financialization is the most

855
01:10:45,642 --> 01:10:48,182
beneficial thing and if that becomes

856
01:10:48,182 --> 01:10:51,222
the prevalent

857
01:10:51,222 --> 01:10:54,222
largely prevalent way Bitcoin's being used.

858
01:10:54,642 --> 01:10:56,562
I don't know if Bitcoin survives that.

859
01:10:58,422 --> 01:11:18,684
Yeah I do worry about one of the three uses for money becoming too pervasive except for the means of accounting because that one I think is universally good But the fight is between means of exchange and store value And we need both in my opinion

860
01:11:18,684 --> 01:11:24,524
we need both. And that's what Sovereign's focusing on. We're focusing on a lot of vendor adoption at

861
01:11:24,524 --> 01:11:31,724
the moment. Well, there's other things, but I think it's important to be able to spend Bitcoin

862
01:11:31,724 --> 01:11:39,364
and stack bitcoin and it's not an it's not an or it's uh it's both you know to me i think it's

863
01:11:39,364 --> 01:11:44,324
really important for certain the currency needs to circulate if we just hold on to it and hoard it

864
01:11:44,324 --> 01:11:51,624
that doesn't really help the ecosystem or the liquidity is interesting that you phrased it

865
01:11:51,624 --> 01:11:58,604
that way that this being a sort of a tension between store value and medium exchange uh so

866
01:11:58,604 --> 01:12:05,844
Because in your mind, the financialization of Bitcoin is a second order effect of it being a store of value?

867
01:12:07,244 --> 01:12:08,204
Yeah, I think so.

868
01:12:08,384 --> 01:12:14,064
Because that's people, if you think of it strictly as an asset, that's people that just want to hold on to it.

869
01:12:14,104 --> 01:12:15,504
They don't think of it as a currency.

870
01:12:16,824 --> 01:12:22,984
But at the same time, bigger picture, this financialization trend to me is a Trojan horse.

871
01:12:23,324 --> 01:12:25,744
It's Bitcoin entering Wall Street.

872
01:12:26,424 --> 01:12:29,044
It's people thinking they can play these financial games with Bitcoin.

873
01:12:29,284 --> 01:12:30,484
And some of them probably can.

874
01:12:30,544 --> 01:12:34,284
In fact, I think Saylor's doing a good job at what he's doing.

875
01:12:34,844 --> 01:12:39,164
A lot of these other guys that came after him have been very disappointing.

876
01:12:39,624 --> 01:12:46,064
Specifically, I'm thinking of Nakamoto right now, which maybe was just a blatant pump and dump.

877
01:12:46,144 --> 01:12:46,584
I don't know.

878
01:12:46,644 --> 01:12:50,844
I haven't looked into the details, but it doesn't look good on the price chart.

879
01:12:52,864 --> 01:12:55,664
So where was I going with that?

880
01:12:55,744 --> 01:13:02,124
Basically, yes, people that are financializing Bitcoin don't necessarily want it to be money.

881
01:13:02,324 --> 01:13:08,984
They want it to operate underneath money and then for money to be a higher order above Bitcoin.

882
01:13:11,324 --> 01:13:16,704
I don't think they're going to I don't think that particular way of viewing Bitcoin is going to age well.

883
01:13:17,044 --> 01:13:20,244
I think a lot of people are going to start to see through it.

884
01:13:20,984 --> 01:13:23,944
The bear market is a good opportunity for them to do that.

885
01:13:23,944 --> 01:13:27,644
And volatility will be another good opportunity for them to do that.

886
01:13:29,264 --> 01:13:44,584
And then, of course, all the other values that having self-custody Bitcoin gives you, like the ability to travel as you will and to not be KYC'd all the time and all these other things.

887
01:13:46,804 --> 01:13:47,444
Yeah.

888
01:13:48,684 --> 01:13:53,304
Yeah, might need a few of these big players to get actually completely wiped out.

889
01:13:53,304 --> 01:13:54,264
probably

890
01:13:54,264 --> 01:13:57,084
probably

891
01:13:57,084 --> 01:13:59,404
so let's talk about Sovereign

892
01:13:59,404 --> 01:14:02,804
I had Brandon on the show

893
01:14:02,804 --> 01:14:04,384
I can't remember now

894
01:14:04,384 --> 01:14:05,584
7-8 months ago

895
01:14:05,584 --> 01:14:07,224
maybe summer

896
01:14:07,224 --> 01:14:10,524
sometime in the summer of last year

897
01:14:10,524 --> 01:14:12,664
and you know he was

898
01:14:12,664 --> 01:14:15,064
he'd taken it on just a few months earlier

899
01:14:15,064 --> 01:14:17,264
the role of CEO there

900
01:14:17,264 --> 01:14:19,024
and he was talking about

901
01:14:19,024 --> 01:14:19,984
all the exciting things

902
01:14:19,984 --> 01:14:22,304
that he had planned

903
01:14:22,304 --> 01:14:33,224
And we've, you know, we connected off the just, you know, between the two of us a few times since then, just on progress and what's happening with Sovereign.

904
01:14:33,364 --> 01:14:36,904
So where do things stand now with Sovereign?

905
01:14:36,904 --> 01:14:44,084
What is the hit rate like with merchant adoption?

906
01:14:44,444 --> 01:14:45,684
Where are you seeing more traction?

907
01:14:46,404 --> 01:14:48,364
Has the bear market impacted that at all?

908
01:14:49,184 --> 01:14:49,384
Yeah.

909
01:14:49,384 --> 01:14:55,704
Yeah. So any Bitcoin business, I think, is affected by the price. People are not as excited

910
01:14:55,704 --> 01:15:00,164
about Bitcoin when the price is flat. And then they're scared when it's going down and they

911
01:15:00,164 --> 01:15:05,484
don't really get excited until it's going up. But so what I'm focused on personally, I mean,

912
01:15:05,484 --> 01:15:09,904
I really can't speak strategy for the whole company, although we do have a really great

913
01:15:09,904 --> 01:15:14,704
team of people that's all over the place. We've got people in Europe. We've got a lot of people

914
01:15:14,704 --> 01:15:20,524
in the US. There is activity happening. What I'm doing personally is connecting with

915
01:15:20,524 --> 01:15:29,764
meetup hubs and with Bitcoin businesses to let them know that we exist and what we do,

916
01:15:29,764 --> 01:15:35,104
which is basically educating and onboarding businesses to Bitcoin, whether they want to do

917
01:15:35,104 --> 01:15:41,224
means of exchange or store value. We also have other referral partners. We have somebody who

918
01:15:41,224 --> 01:15:47,544
does taxes. We have somebody who's a financial advisor that's like a Bitcoin-focused financial

919
01:15:47,544 --> 01:15:53,824
advisor. So the way I'm looking at it is basically a network where if you call us, we can get you in

920
01:15:53,824 --> 01:15:59,224
touch with the right person. And if somebody calls them, they can get that person in touch

921
01:15:59,224 --> 01:16:08,704
with the right person. Sovereign is one node in the Bitcoin ecosystem that I'm hoping is going to

922
01:16:08,704 --> 01:16:16,044
be, if you look at it like a lightning channel, it's going to be a thick channel. It's going to

923
01:16:16,044 --> 01:16:23,724
be a channel through which a lot of data and sats are flowing. And that would put us in a position

924
01:16:23,724 --> 01:16:31,944
where we can educate businesses that are crypto or Bitcoin curious to help them save a lot of time

925
01:16:31,944 --> 01:16:37,924
for themselves. In fact, that's what I'm focusing on currently is kind of catching these financial

926
01:16:37,924 --> 01:16:44,664
institutions, if I can, that are setting up blockchain departments and just let them know

927
01:16:44,664 --> 01:16:51,324
that they might not, they might spend a lot of time and money without getting much benefit from

928
01:16:51,324 --> 01:16:57,484
that. And, and we can help educate them as to why and how to avoid that and how to strategize for

929
01:16:57,484 --> 01:17:02,524
that, which would put them ahead of their competition, you know, um, who are, I know

930
01:17:02,524 --> 01:17:07,504
most of the large financial institutions in the country all have blockchain departments now.

931
01:17:07,924 --> 01:17:18,344
Are they still doing that? Because I was part of that world in 2016, 2017, when it was all the rage, blockchain, not Bitcoin. I thought the thing had died down by now.

932
01:17:18,344 --> 01:17:23,344
Well, I think at the time, a lot of people thought they could create their own blockchain.

933
01:17:24,004 --> 01:17:26,484
That has fizzled out largely.

934
01:17:27,004 --> 01:17:33,584
But now what's going on is they're trying to figure out how to integrate the stock market into Ethereum or something.

935
01:17:34,584 --> 01:17:36,744
They're trying to tokenize the stock market.

936
01:17:36,864 --> 01:17:39,224
You can hear Larry Fink and all these guys talking about it.

937
01:17:39,644 --> 01:17:43,764
And they all think it's a good idea because they want the stock market to run 24-7.

938
01:17:44,184 --> 01:17:44,744
You know what?

939
01:17:44,784 --> 01:17:45,384
I do too.

940
01:17:45,384 --> 01:17:47,904
I think the free market needs to be 24-7.

941
01:17:48,344 --> 01:17:52,464
However, you don't need a blockchain to do that, and you certainly don't need a shitcoin to do that.

942
01:17:52,464 --> 01:17:59,784
So you can do it with TradFi, or you can do that with FinTech, and you don't need any of this crypto stuff.

943
01:17:59,924 --> 01:18:00,884
It's not necessary.

944
01:18:03,304 --> 01:18:11,424
Yeah, I know. I was about to launch into it. We could stay away from that.

945
01:18:12,184 --> 01:18:16,664
The less said about tokenizing and blockchain stuff, the better.

946
01:18:18,344 --> 01:18:31,424
So it sounds like then Sovereign has become a more general purpose consulting as opposed to like strictly merchant adoption. Is that correct?

947
01:18:31,424 --> 01:18:48,924
Yeah, merchant adoption is only one area. I mean, I heard Jeff, he's our chief revenue officer. He was talking about an idea for helping a business implement basically a 401k type retirement plan that uses Bitcoin.

948
01:18:48,924 --> 01:19:08,166
So you could basically educate your employees about why it good to stack sats help them stack sats help them retire as opposed to just throwing it into some mutual fund And I think there definitely a market for that I think that for employee retention

949
01:19:08,446 --> 01:19:13,846
specifically, there's all kinds of programs that could be set up using Bitcoin. And those programs

950
01:19:13,846 --> 01:19:23,006
would be attractive, I think, to high agency talent. I'd put it that way. People who are very

951
01:19:23,006 --> 01:19:29,826
informed about AI and all these things are going to want Bitcoin. So yeah, I see a lot of

952
01:19:29,826 --> 01:19:34,966
opportunities for all kinds of businesses, not just people who are public facing.

953
01:19:38,486 --> 01:19:46,286
Great. So what else you got, SourceNode? We talked about your book. We had our philosophical

954
01:19:46,286 --> 01:19:51,846
detail, which I appreciated. And then talked about Sovereign. Anything else on your plate?

955
01:19:51,846 --> 01:19:58,866
well yeah uh i want to thank you for doing what you're doing because i think that you are putting

956
01:19:58,866 --> 01:20:06,466
your values on clear display with club chain radio without the ads and uh i think it's great

957
01:20:06,466 --> 01:20:14,726
and uh yeah i that's definitely like i'm feeling a lot of gratitude for you i'm glad to be here i

958
01:20:14,726 --> 01:20:20,406
love these conversations no i appreciate you saying that source note uh you know it can get

959
01:20:20,406 --> 01:20:22,466
a little disheartening every now and then,

960
01:20:23,166 --> 01:20:25,266
where it feels like it's screaming into the void.

961
01:20:25,386 --> 01:20:27,686
I mean, look, people listen, right?

962
01:20:27,746 --> 01:20:30,406
The show's been running for three years now.

963
01:20:31,246 --> 01:20:35,686
So, you know, built up enough of our audience

964
01:20:35,686 --> 01:20:39,466
over the course of those three years or so.

965
01:20:39,846 --> 01:20:40,946
But the numbers have dropped,

966
01:20:41,806 --> 01:20:44,626
especially since December or November,

967
01:20:44,846 --> 01:20:48,046
pretty much when the bear market set in,

968
01:20:48,086 --> 01:20:49,586
when people realized it was a bear market,

969
01:20:49,586 --> 01:20:56,986
the numbers of, so it can get disheartening. So hearing you say that does mean a lot. So I

970
01:20:56,986 --> 01:21:04,926
appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So here's something I've been thinking about for my own

971
01:21:04,926 --> 01:21:11,406
podcast, right? Because I have the Holotropic Renaissance lecture series. It's posted. I think

972
01:21:11,406 --> 01:21:16,886
that the most listened to episode is probably somewhere around 500 listens, which is great for

973
01:21:16,886 --> 01:21:22,846
me, it's nothing in comparison to a bigger channel or YouTube or anything. But what the way I've

974
01:21:22,846 --> 01:21:29,946
thought about it is like, we get programmed to look for likes or shares or listeners or whatever.

975
01:21:30,366 --> 01:21:37,966
If something that I create has a deep, meaningful impact on one human, and that human goes out into

976
01:21:37,966 --> 01:21:43,606
the world and does something a little bit better because of something that I created, then it was

977
01:21:43,606 --> 01:21:49,726
totally worth it. And I do know the bear market or the appearance of a bear market can be

978
01:21:49,726 --> 01:21:57,866
disheartening. Personally, I am looking at the gold. I'm looking at Bitcoin priced in gold chart.

979
01:21:58,746 --> 01:22:07,226
And I think we hit the bottom. So I could be wrong about that, but I'm super optimistic. And

980
01:22:07,226 --> 01:22:13,046
even if that's not true, I'm still optimistic because I think that there are many things in

981
01:22:13,046 --> 01:22:20,306
life right now that are looking very bleak. But if I just keep focusing on what's good and spending

982
01:22:20,306 --> 01:22:24,786
time around people that are focusing on what's good, then things are going to get better. So

983
01:22:24,786 --> 01:22:28,066
that's why I'm glad to chat with you, man. I think you do that really well.

984
01:22:29,786 --> 01:22:35,206
Now, once again, appreciate you saying that. Appreciate you posting that note on Noster.

985
01:22:35,586 --> 01:22:41,486
It did put a smile on my face because it was a happy line on a chart, a line that was sloping

986
01:22:41,486 --> 01:22:44,046
upwards and to the right, which I like.

987
01:22:44,046 --> 01:22:48,786
And a little bounce, a squiggly line bouncing off a line.

988
01:22:49,266 --> 01:22:50,446
You know what I'm talking about.

989
01:22:51,086 --> 01:22:53,946
Yeah, let's not get afraid of the lines, right?

990
01:22:54,066 --> 01:22:57,786
Then maybe it's just a heuristic.

991
01:22:58,446 --> 01:23:03,286
But there has been a general shaming around NGU

992
01:23:03,286 --> 01:23:05,586
and people who celebrate NGU.

993
01:23:05,906 --> 01:23:08,486
And I think that is a shame in itself

994
01:23:08,486 --> 01:23:13,066
because NGU is just part of what makes Bitcoin successful.

995
01:23:13,406 --> 01:23:16,106
And it's nothing to be ashamed of or run from.

996
01:23:16,566 --> 01:23:17,886
I think that's our destiny.

997
01:23:18,326 --> 01:23:22,086
So I would encourage people to embrace it.

998
01:23:23,746 --> 01:23:26,026
Embrace the NGU indeed.

999
01:23:26,486 --> 01:23:28,446
So thank you, SourceNode.

1000
01:23:28,566 --> 01:23:30,246
Appreciate you taking the time.

1001
01:23:30,246 --> 01:23:35,186
Appreciate this conversation and all the kind words that you said.

1002
01:23:35,186 --> 01:23:41,886
And thank you to our live stream audience for listening and for your zaps.

1003
01:23:42,406 --> 01:23:48,446
If you are listening to the recording, as always, notice what you didn't hear today.

1004
01:23:48,866 --> 01:23:52,866
You didn't hear me shilling a green powder made of industrial sludge.

1005
01:23:53,306 --> 01:23:57,186
And you didn't hear me selling pills for problems you don't actually have.

1006
01:23:57,566 --> 01:23:58,666
I don't do that here.

1007
01:23:59,146 --> 01:24:03,046
On the lightning-laced airwaves, the only sponsor is you.

1008
01:24:03,046 --> 01:24:14,706
If you found value in this conversation, if it gave you a new mental model, a moment of clarity, or just a respite from the noise, then please consider returning that value.

1009
01:24:15,226 --> 01:24:26,106
You can stream sats as you listen on your favorite podcasting 2.0 app, or you can become a monthly subscriber to the show on Fountain to keep the signal strong.

1010
01:24:26,106 --> 01:24:30,006
You are the producers of this vibe.

1011
01:24:30,346 --> 01:24:36,706
And speaking of producers, the final word goes to the executive producer of this episode.

1012
01:24:37,086 --> 01:24:39,986
That's the top booster from last week.

1013
01:24:40,266 --> 01:24:47,006
If you want to claim the spot next week and have your message read over the air, you know what to do.

1014
01:24:47,526 --> 01:24:49,106
Check the leaderboard.

1015
01:24:49,106 --> 01:25:05,746
This week, the EP chair and the final word belongs to Rev Hoddle, friend of the show, coming in with a typically thoughtful boost about last week's sermon on fixing yourself to fix the world.

1016
01:25:06,466 --> 01:25:09,886
Rev ratifies that sermon with this.

1017
01:25:10,346 --> 01:25:17,606
I agree completely that this idea of fix the money, fix the world has to begin from the individual.

1018
01:25:18,426 --> 01:25:22,366
Fix the money, fix the world is a meme, a nugget of cultural capital.

1019
01:25:23,206 --> 01:25:27,386
Fix the money, fix the world is simply an ideal, not a formula.

1020
01:25:27,386 --> 01:25:35,746
And by sharing this meme, fix the money, fix the world, it's a short, compact way of communicating that ideal.

1021
01:25:36,206 --> 01:25:47,166
It's a way for Bitcoiners to come into alignment culturally that Bitcoin will be used to the benefit of all.

1022
01:25:47,606 --> 01:26:04,206
Thank you for that comment and for your generosity, Rev. Indeed, Fix the Money, Fix the World is a nugget of cultural capital that can only realize its true mimetic potential in the hands of an individual who has fixed themselves.

1023
01:26:04,206 --> 01:26:07,826
and for those of you who want to shape the next show

1024
01:26:07,826 --> 01:26:09,406
the mic is open

1025
01:26:09,406 --> 01:26:11,806
whether you want to ratify the sermon

1026
01:26:11,806 --> 01:26:14,066
as Rev just did

1027
01:26:14,066 --> 01:26:16,646
with your own story or rectify it

1028
01:26:16,646 --> 01:26:17,786
with the counterpoint

1029
01:26:17,786 --> 01:26:21,186
the executive producer slot is waiting for you

1030
01:26:21,186 --> 01:26:24,106
the minutes are open for next week

1031
01:26:24,106 --> 01:26:25,386
until then

1032
01:26:25,386 --> 01:26:26,926
stay sovereign

1033
01:26:34,206 --> 01:26:35,206
Bye.