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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses

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on the intersection of NOSTER and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current

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thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,

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doers, and plebs.

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All right, we are live.

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Welcome, gentle pioneers, to this lightning-laced airways of, what is it,

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Club Chain Radio episode 138.

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This episode, our guest is none other than Sam Means,

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aka Lightning Store, Wave Lake, also a musician, father, husband,

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and a pleb I call a friend.

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I just want to remind you about listening on Fountain

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and to subscribe for access to bonus episodes.

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This show is streamed live on zap.stream, which means it's also on other Nostra clients that support streaming, such as Amethyst, Nostra, Fountain, Primal, and probably more.

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It's an ever-evolving space, and we continue to stampede any of the airwaves.

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This week, Culture Corner is focused on two things.

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Number one, my co-host Avi, he's across the pond in the UK.

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He's actually attending the BitFest Nostra Shire, the three-day event.

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Basically, it's a three-day event, November 21st through the 23rd in Manchester.

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Three days of Nostra Bitcoin film and art, even some music there.

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So if you are going to attend, you got two days left.

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Use the code, discount code, PlebChainRadio for 10% off.

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a bigger, bigger announcement. And congratulations to my co-host Avi Burra. His new book,

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July 18th, just dropped. That's the sequel to 24. I noticed it comes in soft, hard,

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and all forms of books. So July 18th is the title. I have not purchased it. It literally

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just dropped on, I think, yesterday, two days ago. So look into it. And if you haven't read 24,

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please do. This week's sermon, Time is the Cocoon. When we were young, we're all momentum and noise.

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We move fast, love hard, bet big, speak louder than we listen, and treat every open door like

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it's built for us. Fear feels optional. Consequences feel theoretical. We think boldness

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is the same thing as strength. Then life starts swinging. A startup collapses and takes your

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savings with it. A marriage you swore was forever ends in paperwork. You watch a parent fade. You

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get passed over for a promotion you deserved. You make reckless calls that cost people jobs.

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You wake up at 35 or 45 or 55 and realize the script you were following was never yours to

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begin with. Each punch lands differently than you expect. It doesn't hurt. It rewires. The swagger

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gets tempered. You stop needing to be the smartest voice in the room. You start measuring twice before

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you leap once. You feel the old version of you folding inward, getting quieter, heavier, less

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shiny. Most people call that getting old or losing your edge. It feels like shrinking. That's the

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cocoon stage. It's misunderstood. Inside that pressure, something deliberate is happening.

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Every regret is being distilled into pattern recognition. Every apology that you had to

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choke out is turning into empathy. Every plan that blew up in your face is becoming calmer,

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clearer sense of what actually matters. The ego that once needed constant feeding starts to starve

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in the best way. You start confusing motion with progress, volume with authority.

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Years of that compression do predictable work.

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You develop a kind of night vision for bullshit and for opportunity.

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You can sit in ambiguity without twitching.

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You know which bridges are worth burning and which are worth dying on.

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You've taken enough hits to understand the resilience isn't never falling.

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It's mastering the art of controlled crash and the quick recovery.

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Eventually, the shelf ends.

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It's one ordinary morning you notice the wait is gone.

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You speak less, but when you do, the room listens.

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You take bigger risks than you did at 25,

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yet they feel safer because they're chosen, not chased.

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You're no longer trying to prove you belong in the sky.

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You just inhabit it.

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The reckless, noisy caterpillar has been liquefied and rebuilt.

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What emerges is a quieter, stronger, almost weightless.

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It doesn't announce its arrival.

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It simply flies higher, longer, truer,

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carrying the memory of every crawl in its wings.

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That's the butterfly time that has always been building.

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Not a louder version of who you were, but a freer, wiser,

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finely finished version of who you were meant to become.

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The cocoon never killed you.

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It completed you.

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And speaking of beautiful butterflies, let's welcome to the show Samuel Thomas Means.

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Well, hello there.

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I found your full name on Wikipedia.

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do you guys want my social security too it's literally on wikipedia your full name

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that's birthday first car in high school yeah when when we talked earlier or in different shows uh you

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you you did i'm like can i mention your real name like oh i'm fully doxed yeah i don't i don't think

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you can get more fully docs than that no no it's yeah somebody my wife posted something somewhere

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the other day i can't remember where and there was like our i think our license plate was in it

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or something and i was just like aren't you not supposed to do that she's like dude you can just

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google anybody and find out like what they paid in their taxes i'm like it's the stuff is out there

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thanks yeah it's it's uh it's only going to get worse um you know ai is not going to help this

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yeah so i looked you up and now it might be a separate show but we have some stuff to talk about

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yeah well school zones i i can't get around you know that you know the routine

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yeah you're in trouble man so let's cut to the chase and uh what everyone truly wants to know sam

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uh what's your favorite hot dog toppings uh you know just ketchup and mustard and

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have you have you done sonoran raw raw onions sonoran uh i guess i'm not really a hot dog guy

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well no i mean i don't think first of all i'm vegetarian do you know that about me

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yeah that's where the eggs came in yeah that's where the eggs come in but i mean so you know

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i'll eat a veggie dog but and it's funny because you know i try not to actually eat a lot of like

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the fake meat stuff because it's like what is it but also what's a hot dog it's kind of the same

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thing the hot dog is sort of like the og impossible meat it's like it was just it's just like sludge

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that kind of gets ground together and then packaged very neatly that's why you put so many

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toppings on it because it's literally just sludge yeah i mean there's a place what's that place

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short leash um in uh speaking of doxing in our town yeah they i feel like i've had a good kind

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of like sonoran style dog there like a like a mexican dog um a spicy some kind of spicy chili

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dog or something like that i like you know i like spicy foods so not a lot of people have their own

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dog right so like you know you can get a chicago style dog uh sure and and you know i like to think

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that arizona at least we have our own like dog yeah sonoran style what i do what i what i do like

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about um that short leash place they're a sponsor on this show right so we can keep yeah yeah i like

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the merch at uh lightestore.com it's like a don't go there it's like a pita bread or something that

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they put those dogs in. It's like a, it's like a, like a Chalupa or something. I don't know. I

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don't know what it is. It's not a hot dog bun. It's for sure. You're not really vegetarian. Are

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you? I am. You didn't know that? No, I will. You've had several meals together. Yeah. You had

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bean and cheese. I just thought you were weird, dude. When we went to the taco shop, you got a

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bean, you got a bean and cheese burrito. I'm like, huh? That wasn't like, that wasn't a tip

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well no but you ate i i didn't really assume i don't put together that uh vegetarians love eggs

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oh well why not they're vegetarian isn't that like an actual animal i'm not a freak okay yeah

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but there's like a gray area right shout out to my vegans uh no i'm a vegetarian i've been a

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vegetarian for like i don't know 25 years or something but i don't i'm not like a super crazy

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one like if there's like i didn't ask if there was lard in those in that bean burrito i would eat i

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would eat it all day long i don't care yeah so yeah i'm still just blown away that uh eggs are

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part of a vegetarian diet i feel like eggs should be part of a vegan diet i i hard disagree that

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eggs um are not vegan they're just out they're just their eggs we always ended eggs in these

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well eggs just they show up they're like a gift from the world it's like a place it's it's like

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the um i don't know i feel like eggs eggs are cool eggs are super cool in any in any capacity

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so now that we got our uh we cracked the egg on the combo here um what what is going on with

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lightning store because the last time we spoke and obviously that was a that was part of the premium

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uh yeah no one heard subscribers only uh you know you were basically trying to sell me uh lightning

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store. I felt like the last time we hung out. I mean, I wasn't trying to, I think I was trying

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to give it to you. Putting the leg out a little bit like we're on Van Buren, but what, what,

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what is happening with the store? And maybe you knew more at the time because you know what, Sam,

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I've never actually talked to you about your old band, your old, I mean, really, I just never even.

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What we finding out today is you don actually know me very well do you I know you quite well I done all the research on you i know i know all the trouble you in thanks google but um yeah lightning store and i just

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it's on a it's on a um you know like an indefinite hiatus i i haven't really been the perfect perfect

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um way forward for lightning store like in your eyes what would you really want to happen

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lightning store i've i mean maybe we've talked about it before i mean or i'm certainly i've

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talked about it before elsewhere but you know i just sort of started that as an experiment

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like a two-part thing it was an experiment to see if i could just start a like a company

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from scratch that only ever accepted bitcoin and never accepted any you know dollars so that was

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so did that it's great you know worked worked great i did it i think i started that in january

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of 21 so just about four years um or five wait five that'll be five years i guess right yeah

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wow um so almost five years so that's i consider that to be um a success and

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accomplishment there and then but mostly it was to find people in the music space or in the space

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that were into music so that I could get something like wave lake built and

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that that's that happened. So it, you know,

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it sort of served its purpose there. It was a, I didn't know anybody.

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I'm not a technical person.

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And so it was a really good way of sort of breaking in via something that I

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know how to do, which is make merchant and music and, you know,

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kind of am very much in the music space now. So even more,

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um but and there were also you know just a lot of really early lightning companies that needed

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cool merch and so there was that as well and that started to become less and less of a thing

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um i haven't done any collaborations with anybody in a long time not that i wouldn't i just haven't

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been busy and with other things and um yeah i don't know i just i don't i guess i'm just

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at the moment, um, focus on other stuff and there was sort of a lull in its, in it in general.

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And so it just seemed like a good time to just, um, hit the brakes on it for a minute. And then

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someday I can bring it back if I want to, but, um, maybe I will, maybe I won't, I don't know if

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I'm inspired to do, I don't really, another thing you may not know about me is I don't really do

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things unless I'm really enjoying it or I feel like there's a purpose to it. Um, if I'm not,

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if I'm not getting joy out of it, um,

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I don't really see a point in doing it.

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And it just was becoming more of a task in its current form where it's out of

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town a lot. And I was, you know, kind of having to have, uh, you know,

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you know, my guy, Chris, um, in the warehouse,

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he was helping me out a lot and it just became kind of like an obligation. Um,

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so, you know, I, I really liked packing all the orders I always did.

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And it just, when that, even that element of it started going away,

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just seem like maybe not the time to keep doing it for for now so we'll see so it's not just the

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bitcoin price then you only sold it's the best time it'd be the best time to waiting for the

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bottom again and for the cycle and you open the store again no but i think if i ever do bring it

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back i think i'll i would start totally fresh so i do have all this um inventory still that i need

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to get rid of. I've been, I have been trying to think of a, a way to sort of package that up

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and some boxes and send it off to somebody in a way that might actually have some sort of

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impact and. Well, you're not, yeah. I mean, maybe raise some money somehow.

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You only have so many excels to go around for me. So yeah, I do want to read your stickers though.

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Next time you're in town. Uh, I would like to, yeah, my friend of mine just did. He just kind

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of, I was like, dude, go for it. Take whatever you want. You, I mean, a lot of, some of it's just,

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not even around anymore. I love that we call it rug gear, right?

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I rugged merch projects that, that rugged or just

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plenty of mutiny shirts. If somebody wants to cross

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all the letters out after M and

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spray paint April, is that what it's called?

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So are you, you're acting, so

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I mean, it could be rehomed though, if, if, if someone had the right

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opportunity but it's such a thought about that i thought about um like completing the cycle i mean

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like it would be fun it would be kind of funny if if i started this random for five years and then

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and only ever accepted bitcoin and then sold it like a full circle kind of uh entrepreneurial

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moment in bitcoin that would be cool but then i thought like you know it's really so much of it

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was or is i guess so much of my personality i guess is in it like i had a like a whole

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online persona connected to it um in a certain point i think we were out at a meetup and will

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with will from fold and we're kind of joking about like if somebody took it they also get

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to take over the persona like it just becomes them yeah but i don't know i thought that was

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maybe weird so i opted to just um just shut it down for now and just confuse everybody yeah

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because i might want to bring it i mean there might be a if there might be a reason to bring

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it back someday you know maybe i'm i just i don't know i feel like a lot of the stuff is sort of

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slowed down the things that i'm really excited about and um they're you know they're i don't

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know i just i feel like at a certain point i'm just doing it just to do it you know so that that's

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Does Jack Dorsey have a direct line for his shirts?

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No, I don't.

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Does he wear them still?

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I don't feel like he's moved on as well.

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He was like Bart Simpson.

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I feel like he got sick of hearing about it.

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So he changed his shirt finally.

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Yeah.

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So Wavelake, obviously Lightning Store was your step to Wavelake.

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That was kind of your ultimate goal with this.

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uh what tell me about wave lake anything going on um any any announcements anything uh let's talk

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lots going on yeah there's definitely i mean it doesn't seem like there's a lot going on because

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we've been pretty quiet but um lots of building and and thinking and many conversations between

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josh and i um shout out to josh the the lone wave lake employee he's the one in the telegram group

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uh always yeah josh is very putting out the flames yeah he's he's an awesome dude um

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but yeah i mean we've been we've been working all year on on um kind of the next iteration of this

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thing it's um it's gonna be pretty different so you know there's a lot of big ideas and a lot of um

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i don't know it's we're still still working on a lot i mean like we worked through it we think we

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we finally get to a solution in a place where we're happy,

202
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but then something comes up and it sort of disrupts the whole thing.

203
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So I think we're in a pretty good place now. Um, we, we're,

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we are actively back to building. We've sort of been in,

205
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we have these methods of like building out the idea,

206
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hitting a roadblock,

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stopping for a month and just talking about it and really talking things through

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and making sure, um, we're going down the right path.

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and then starting back up.

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So we're currently in a cycle of where we've started back up

211
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and we're doing less talking and more rocking.

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And yeah, I don't know.

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I really hope to have something,

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some new version of this out this year,

215
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but I don't really, I can't say for sure.

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It's just we're working slow.

217
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We're not in any kind of rush at all.

218
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Just really making sure whatever the next thing that comes out

219
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is really fitting to the idea, like the concept and works

220
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and is something that might intrigue people,

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get people thinking about things a little bit differently

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and shake things up a little bit.

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So, yeah, I mean, that's where that's at.

224
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How much time is it consuming?

225
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You're kind of a busy guy.

226
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Busy, dude.

227
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I mean, yeah, we talk multiple times every week.

228
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We have, we have two like major meetings every week where we,

229
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we go through all this stuff. So we're still, I mean,

230
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still incredibly active in it. It's,

231
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I am very, I mean, more than ever,

232
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I'm actually very excited about the path that we're going mostly just because

233
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it's just some new ideas. And I think, you know, probably whatever this,

234
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whatever we come out with, it's probably going to,

235
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I'm sure there'll be some people that don't like it.

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there will be some people that really love it and i think that that's really the idea is just to

237
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continue trying different ideas and and we've talked about this before you know it's like

238
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i don't think anybody's right yet obviously none of these these things are really working in this

239
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and you're just talking about the concept of sovereign music or how you approach just i mean

240
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all of it i mean everything we're talking is like none of it's working you know it's like

241
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Nosfer's not working. Bitcoin's not working. I mean, it's working in the sense that-

242
00:20:01,126 --> 00:20:04,166
My primal notifications are currently wrecked, but I have faith.

243
00:20:04,706 --> 00:20:10,946
Yeah. I mean, people know what I mean when I say that. None of this stuff has entered the mainstream

244
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yet. And some people don't ever want that to happen and they want to keep it precious. And

245
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some people realize how powerful that will be to humanity when these things actually

246
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can work at a mainstream level and everyone can experience

247
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what we know to be kind of true about some of these technologies. So

248
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I just don't think the way that we've been doing it, it's not that it's been wrong.

249
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It's just, we've been, we tried something for a while and I'm not sure if it's quite right.

250
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And so we just going to reconfigure some stuff and try that for a while and see if that works And it very well may not be the solution either but I think would be doing a disservice to just continue down the same path you know and not keep thinking outside the box

251
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Because we have that luxury to do that because it hasn't worked yet.

252
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Like none of the stuff has really caught on in a way that's super meaningful.

253
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So we still have time to try different things.

254
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And I want to utilize that time and the resources that I have though,

255
00:21:18,112 --> 00:21:21,332
very few, we're, we're doing the best that we can.

256
00:21:22,072 --> 00:21:23,952
We're in the cocoon stage, Sam.

257
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Butterfly stage will be coming. It's just a matter of time.

258
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So the, and we'll move that kind of,

259
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so basically wave lake, nothing,

260
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no major changes just yet. Um, but stuff you're continuing.

261
00:21:42,132 --> 00:21:44,632
Yeah. I mean, as far as what people see on wave lake today,

262
00:21:44,632 --> 00:21:45,112
it's like,

263
00:21:45,112 --> 00:21:49,252
that's been pretty much just in maintenance mode all year and everything we've

264
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been working on has been behind the scenes, um, on a completely different,

265
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I mean, everything it's like really is truly being rebuilt from scratch

266
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completely. Um, so, you know,

267
00:22:02,752 --> 00:22:07,052
there really hasn't been much sense in building features into the existing

268
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platform because it's going to be on such a totally wildly different setup how how is that

269
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when you're building uh a completely rebuilt uh wave lake but you're still getting bug reports

270
00:22:19,012 --> 00:22:25,252
on the old one it's fine i mean luckily yeah it's not to you actually hasn't been that bad i mean

271
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there's some there's some big take me an hour but i can just build this other thing that's

272
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going to be latest and greatest so yeah i mean luckily it's mostly working um yeah so we haven't

273
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really had too many problems and when a couple things have come up but they've been very

274
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small and temporary and um yeah so it hasn't been bad i mean that's all josh luckily like yeah i

275
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mean it's just josh is the only dev working on wave lake i don't i'm i'm of no help when it comes

276
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to that kind of stuff so luckily it's all been knock on wood uh pretty pretty manageable thus far

277
00:23:00,052 --> 00:23:07,772
um but yeah it helps when we're not we're not in there breaking stuff constantly because we're

278
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like i said we're working sort of in parallel on a different on a different system so it's like

279
00:23:11,472 --> 00:23:17,552
there's not a lot to really break so luckily if it's like it's been working as is and should

280
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should continue to work pretty well until until we until we switch things over

281
00:23:22,532 --> 00:23:30,992
now you have uh i mean it's it's got to be occupying a lot of your life now a lot of your

282
00:23:30,992 --> 00:23:37,772
time um but your band is back from a 20-year hiatus yeah tell me about tell me about never

283
00:23:37,772 --> 00:23:44,052
gonna score yeah different band same same people a couple of the same people actually

284
00:23:44,052 --> 00:23:50,012
three three of the five people in the current band were actually in never gonna score at one

285
00:23:50,012 --> 00:24:01,852
point in time. And I'm just kidding. Anyway, listening, the format is Sam's main music project,

286
00:24:01,972 --> 00:24:11,712
I suppose now. I guess tell me, let's talk about 20 years ago and maybe just tell me a little bit.

287
00:24:13,392 --> 00:24:15,332
A quick background on the band?

288
00:24:15,332 --> 00:24:21,892
yeah yeah and that you know i understood that uh you you were gonna relaunch uh during covid um but

289
00:24:21,892 --> 00:24:29,972
yeah i mean there's yeah we've i mean we were friends in high school started we were in

290
00:24:29,972 --> 00:24:35,552
the format was our third band together um like you joked about never gonna score but like i said

291
00:24:35,552 --> 00:24:40,732
three of us actually were in that band and we're in the next band and then the band just sort of

292
00:24:40,732 --> 00:24:43,232
turned into this project called the format,

293
00:24:43,332 --> 00:24:48,832
which was two of us in this thing that are the songwriters and primarily

294
00:24:48,832 --> 00:24:50,972
recording most of it.

295
00:24:52,052 --> 00:24:58,812
But we started that back in like 2002 pretty much and put out a couple of

296
00:24:58,812 --> 00:25:04,632
records and toured around the world and then called it quits for a long time.

297
00:25:05,152 --> 00:25:10,212
We took an indefinite hiatus ourselves and then decided to come back in 2020.

298
00:25:10,212 --> 00:25:14,432
Yeah. And we had a few shows scheduled then that were,

299
00:25:14,572 --> 00:25:18,212
that were cut off because of the COVID stuff.

300
00:25:18,772 --> 00:25:27,072
And then last year we started writing some stuff together and that was cool.

301
00:25:27,072 --> 00:25:30,452
And that turned into an album. And then we decided to, you know,

302
00:25:30,652 --> 00:25:34,192
obviously with, with an album kind of in our hands,

303
00:25:34,232 --> 00:25:36,172
we'd have to play some shows.

304
00:25:36,172 --> 00:25:42,052
And then we sort of rescheduled those original shows and got those on the books.

305
00:25:42,052 --> 00:25:54,092
And we've now played those shows and are just in the process of releasing music on this new album and getting ready to go on a, on a big tour at the first part of next year.

306
00:25:54,092 --> 00:25:57,892
So yeah, it's definitely been, we have some more shows this year.

307
00:25:58,012 --> 00:26:06,132
I mean, it's just, it's been, it's been a lot because it's a very big, something that used to be my entire life and is now fitting it into having,

308
00:26:06,132 --> 00:26:14,672
family and having multiple businesses and um all of these things luckily all kind of work together

309
00:26:14,672 --> 00:26:19,272
you know i also have hello merch which is my main merchandise business which is the only reason i

310
00:26:19,272 --> 00:26:23,592
was even able to do the lightning store stuff is because i have this infrastructure in place to do

311
00:26:23,592 --> 00:26:30,772
to make merch um but you know it works it's like we the band needs merch and i have a merch company

312
00:26:30,772 --> 00:26:33,172
So it makes it very easy to do that.

313
00:26:33,952 --> 00:26:35,572
You can tell you have a merch company.

314
00:26:36,112 --> 00:26:41,972
When I looked at the merch for the format, you got a lot of merch, man.

315
00:26:42,352 --> 00:26:44,272
There's some cool stuff there.

316
00:26:45,212 --> 00:26:46,392
Different colored vinyls.

317
00:26:46,472 --> 00:26:52,872
You got your cassettes, your CDs, all the way to jerseys, like Phoenix Suns looking jerseys.

318
00:26:53,052 --> 00:26:53,312
Yeah.

319
00:26:53,452 --> 00:26:56,892
I can see a lot of it's your style too.

320
00:26:56,892 --> 00:27:03,352
um so you've you've you've done your artistic uh uh your your talent has been applied yeah i'm

321
00:27:03,352 --> 00:27:09,432
doing the same stuff it's just different different um you know it's like i i'm always making merch i'm

322
00:27:09,432 --> 00:27:14,592
always making things and sometimes that attention just when it needed to be in a lightning store

323
00:27:14,592 --> 00:27:18,532
it was there and when it needed to be for my band then it's there and when it needs to be somewhere

324
00:27:18,532 --> 00:27:23,272
else it's somewhere else you know so it's all to me it's all the same thing it's just different

325
00:27:23,272 --> 00:27:28,612
shapes and different points in my life things kind of intersect maybe a little bit differently but

326
00:27:28,612 --> 00:27:33,072
really at the end of the day it all just works together and it's all sort of the same

327
00:27:33,072 --> 00:27:39,132
it's kind of like taco bell it's like it all tastes the same but different shapes is that vegan

328
00:27:39,132 --> 00:27:47,092
i don't think it's real meat so i don't know if you can i don't know if you can consider taco bell

329
00:27:47,092 --> 00:27:56,152
ground beef uh real uh so i mean i think most people might recognize you from my super sweet 16

330
00:27:56,152 --> 00:28:05,052
uh performance uh do you want to talk about that oh yeah that was a that was a really cool

331
00:28:05,052 --> 00:28:12,432
show that was on mtv that was ridiculous and uh my band in like 2006 was on an episode of it

332
00:28:12,432 --> 00:28:15,952
in Houston, Texas, I think, or somewhere in Texas.

333
00:28:16,692 --> 00:28:17,212
Lumbert?

334
00:28:18,272 --> 00:28:19,192
I don't know.

335
00:28:19,632 --> 00:28:21,832
It's amazing what you can find on Wikipedia.

336
00:28:22,052 --> 00:28:23,372
I mean, there were elephants there.

337
00:28:23,492 --> 00:28:24,932
I mean, it really was extravagant.

338
00:28:25,052 --> 00:28:28,192
It was absolutely just so stupid.

339
00:28:28,712 --> 00:28:32,732
But that was the same.

340
00:28:32,872 --> 00:28:38,432
I mean, you had kind of a relationship with, well, Carson Daly, I would think, about MTV.

341
00:28:38,432 --> 00:28:41,372
But you were on Late Night with Carson Daly twice, right?

342
00:28:41,372 --> 00:28:47,932
yeah i think it yeah we were on it twice but it was the same appearance they just had us they kept

343
00:28:47,932 --> 00:28:52,232
telling us to just do more songs we're like why and then we realized oh they were just using them

344
00:28:52,232 --> 00:28:57,052
as like another you know it's like a year later we're on it again but it's still from the same

345
00:28:57,052 --> 00:29:01,912
show it's just a different ah so same recording uh same recording but uh same session different

346
00:29:01,912 --> 00:29:09,892
airing yeah exactly yeah yeah interesting uh so that i mean that was years ago what lessons have

347
00:29:09,892 --> 00:29:16,072
you learned i mean how is it's got to be cool and and you're um the bandmate your lead singer

348
00:29:16,072 --> 00:29:25,312
his name is nate roosh he went off to fun and yeah yeah he started a band called fun after the

349
00:29:25,312 --> 00:29:33,312
format took a break um he went on recorded a two albums himself under that that name um

350
00:29:33,312 --> 00:29:37,812
and had a lot of success yeah he went on he i mean he's got grammys and

351
00:29:37,812 --> 00:29:44,612
did a bunch of cool songs with you know co-writes and did stuff with like pink and eminem and

352
00:29:44,612 --> 00:29:52,952
brian wilson and a lot of really cool things i think we we are young is rocking like 1.4

353
00:29:52,952 --> 00:29:57,992
billion listens on spotify oh yeah i think i think you might even have a couple songs i had

354
00:29:57,992 --> 00:30:04,192
to count commas like that yeah i mean it's a big big band that i mean that song you did with pink

355
00:30:04,192 --> 00:30:07,192
is I think like mega.

356
00:30:08,412 --> 00:30:13,512
So it's a unique voice and I thought I recognized it until I, you know, again, I'm, I'm like

357
00:30:13,512 --> 00:30:18,312
backtracking through, uh, my buddy's band now, uh, buddies with you.

358
00:30:18,312 --> 00:30:22,652
A lot of people have a lot of it's, that was the experience for a lot of people.

359
00:30:22,652 --> 00:30:23,552
They're like, it's crazy.

360
00:30:23,612 --> 00:30:28,872
We didn't even realize, but I mean, it's crazy for me too, because we were a semi successful

361
00:30:28,872 --> 00:30:35,512
band and were able to do it full-time as a job back then for several years but it was it wasn't

362
00:30:35,512 --> 00:30:45,972
the the fan base grew a lot um over the course of 18 18 years people i mean i've told this story a

363
00:30:45,972 --> 00:30:49,812
couple times but i've had so many people have just been like i got married and i turned my

364
00:30:49,812 --> 00:30:54,832
you know significant other on to the band and now they're a fan and then we had a kid and now our

365
00:30:54,832 --> 00:31:02,092
kids 15 our kid loves your band and now our kids friends love the band and so these shows are have

366
00:31:02,092 --> 00:31:08,032
been that we've done have been so much bigger than we would have ever done um and that's just because

367
00:31:08,032 --> 00:31:20,838
it had sort of time to to grow and um that been really interesting because that that doesn always happen that not you know it very rare to go away for such a long time and come back and have that

368
00:31:20,838 --> 00:31:23,598
reception. So I've been very lucky with that.

369
00:31:24,838 --> 00:31:28,378
Time is the cocoon. Yeah. Yeah. You see the theme there.

370
00:31:28,638 --> 00:31:30,158
Yeah. I knew that was going to be the theme.

371
00:31:30,158 --> 00:31:32,358
So I wanted to throw you a bone there.

372
00:31:34,018 --> 00:31:37,258
Uh, it's, I mean, what, what have you learned? What, what, what,

373
00:31:37,258 --> 00:31:40,118
how do you approach this now? Cause it's, it's pretty wild to,

374
00:31:40,278 --> 00:31:44,198
to have that much life experience in between. Uh, and so,

375
00:31:44,278 --> 00:31:47,898
so some people do a 20 year and they're literally just like redoing the,

376
00:31:47,898 --> 00:31:51,738
the albums that they, that, that they did, like, you know, uh,

377
00:31:51,738 --> 00:31:55,718
whatever was it's 25 years since this album, but you're actually,

378
00:31:55,838 --> 00:31:57,578
you actually launched an album.

379
00:31:58,998 --> 00:32:02,098
Yeah. We're not big on like the nostalgia stuff. It's just, we want to,

380
00:32:02,698 --> 00:32:04,118
I mean, just like the lightning store,

381
00:32:04,118 --> 00:32:10,338
the same thing is true with the music stuff and same with with nate we feel that we're on the same

382
00:32:10,338 --> 00:32:16,798
page there where um we wouldn't be doing this if we don't if we weren't having fun or didn't

383
00:32:17,458 --> 00:32:23,078
didn't want to we wouldn't definitely would not be doing this for nostalgic reasons not that there's

384
00:32:23,078 --> 00:32:26,598
some people do that i don't think there's anything wrong with that but that's just not what we're

385
00:32:26,598 --> 00:32:33,278
into we want to just keep progressing and that's more interesting than just going off and playing

386
00:32:33,278 --> 00:32:38,738
a festival for a bunch of money just for the sake of knocking out 10 songs and having everybody

387
00:32:38,738 --> 00:32:45,858
feel nostalgic you know i'm sure a lot of people have felt that way at these shows we've we've done

388
00:32:45,858 --> 00:32:52,458
i'm sure there's some level of nostalgia there and um lots of really cool camaraderie and things

389
00:32:52,458 --> 00:32:57,218
like that you know we've just sort of seen in these crowds so far but so that's all great but

390
00:32:57,218 --> 00:33:01,538
that's just not the purpose that that we're on it's not the mission that we're on now we just

391
00:33:01,538 --> 00:33:08,458
like working together and we like doing this and so the time was right it took a long time but um

392
00:33:08,458 --> 00:33:12,798
you know we're here again and we're making music and it's really fun but yeah we've learned i mean

393
00:33:12,798 --> 00:33:18,098
i think we both learned a lot much in taking completely different paths i mean he's been

394
00:33:18,098 --> 00:33:26,858
in when we were younger we got signed to a major label and it didn't work out very well for us and

395
00:33:26,858 --> 00:33:34,338
um you know he signed to a major label with fun and it worked out really well for him but

396
00:33:34,338 --> 00:33:40,558
up to a point you know but he also saw so he got to see a different side of it where it's still

397
00:33:40,558 --> 00:33:47,378
kind of like it's a grind and it's brutal but it's but it's working so he got to that does still

398
00:33:47,378 --> 00:33:54,378
exist on some level we've talked about it so much with wave lake stuff you know where um there are

399
00:33:54,378 --> 00:33:59,318
different versions of, of these things that you can, you have to kind of choose your battles.

400
00:33:59,318 --> 00:34:03,978
It's like, you can't, it's hard to avoid all of it. You know, at some point in time, you have to

401
00:34:03,978 --> 00:34:10,078
interact with some of the parts of this music business that you don't love. And sometimes it

402
00:34:10,078 --> 00:34:15,198
works out and sometimes it doesn't, that doesn't mean it's right or wrong. You know, it just means

403
00:34:15,198 --> 00:34:21,178
it's there. It's, and that's, I think pretty, those necessary evils are sort of things that we

404
00:34:21,178 --> 00:34:26,758
have to interact with every day you know in our lives just living just living in this country you

405
00:34:26,758 --> 00:34:31,578
have third things that you have to participate in that you may not necessarily agree with um

406
00:34:31,578 --> 00:34:38,198
so that's just life in the world you know but i think that we've both come out on each side of

407
00:34:38,198 --> 00:34:46,018
these of our path and have learned a lot and how to how we're going to respond to things that that

408
00:34:46,018 --> 00:34:50,758
come our way with this particular project now that we're firing back up and it's been cool because

409
00:34:50,758 --> 00:34:56,218
we're both on the same page in a lot of ways there and i think we're using that that knowledge

410
00:34:56,218 --> 00:35:04,578
to really just make sure we're doing things that are interesting to us you know yeah that that

411
00:35:04,578 --> 00:35:11,798
experience and that i mean it just basically gave you the uh the the you're aware of the trade-offs

412
00:35:11,798 --> 00:35:17,138
at this point and you know you can only it's i don't know you just don't want to repeat any

413
00:35:17,138 --> 00:35:23,058
mistakes uh and you're aware of them and then you kind of move forward you just have to have i mean

414
00:35:23,058 --> 00:35:28,478
this is just something in my own me for i can't i can't speak for him so i can just only speak for

415
00:35:28,478 --> 00:35:33,038
me personally it's like not a lot of people can take 20 years off and then come back with an album

416
00:35:33,038 --> 00:35:37,218
i mean yeah you just we're just trying to be authentic you know it's a very unique position

417
00:35:37,218 --> 00:35:42,858
where you have the experience and you've i don't know it just it's it's it's actually intriguing to

418
00:35:42,858 --> 00:35:50,138
me yeah i mean it's it's very cool to be able to do that and um so you know we're not

419
00:35:50,138 --> 00:35:55,518
we're just kind of taking it one step at a time but it's fun it's been fun to be able it was fun

420
00:35:55,518 --> 00:36:01,618
to work on that album it's fun to see the response to it so far and um i think we're both as long as

421
00:36:01,618 --> 00:36:07,419
we're both just like very authentically navigating through these waters that we're navigating through

422
00:36:07,419 --> 00:36:10,038
I think we'll be just fine, you know? Um,

423
00:36:10,358 --> 00:36:16,118
and I'm also hoping to learn a lot in this process, um,

424
00:36:16,738 --> 00:36:19,978
for other things that I'm working on, you know, like I'm,

425
00:36:20,058 --> 00:36:23,618
I am getting an even closer look at the music industry right now,

426
00:36:23,658 --> 00:36:25,598
going through this with this band again.

427
00:36:25,598 --> 00:36:29,238
So I know that that's going to help me and has been helping me a lot this year,

428
00:36:29,278 --> 00:36:32,598
just even in what, um, what we're working on,

429
00:36:32,658 --> 00:36:36,878
what we're building on and being able to look at this project and be like,

430
00:36:36,878 --> 00:36:41,538
is this good enough? If this isn't good enough for my band,

431
00:36:41,578 --> 00:36:44,598
how's this going to be good enough for anybody else? You know,

432
00:36:44,598 --> 00:36:48,919
I need to build something. We need to build something that's, that's,

433
00:36:49,038 --> 00:36:55,419
that I'm going to not only be a member, but also a client, you know,

434
00:36:55,419 --> 00:36:59,459
to a little throwback there for a TV commercial from the nineties or whatever.

435
00:36:59,658 --> 00:37:05,338
But yeah, you know, it's, it's whatever I'm working on, it has to,

436
00:37:05,338 --> 00:37:08,818
it has to work or else what's the point you know it's just all kind of for show so

437
00:37:08,818 --> 00:37:15,358
it's been very helpful to sort of though it's been difficult to balance some of these things

438
00:37:15,358 --> 00:37:22,078
sometimes it's also doing much more good than bad you know because i'm i'm jumping back into the fire

439
00:37:22,078 --> 00:37:30,439
so to say and it's just um you kind of forget like what what it's like sometimes and how crazy it is

440
00:37:30,439 --> 00:37:36,378
in that fire and so it's been good to to get some insight there and it's and it's helping me on the

441
00:37:36,378 --> 00:37:46,378
on the wave lake front for sure what uh so you you can obviously see out the uh the the stats or the

442
00:37:46,378 --> 00:37:52,358
so like how many downloads uh let's say your your your first single out of the new album uh

443
00:37:52,358 --> 00:38:03,038
holy roller holy rollers or roller holy roller roller uh how much did that appearance on jimmy

444
00:38:03,038 --> 00:38:12,198
fallon uh did did you see a surge um i don't it's i mean it's hard to tell because all that stuff

445
00:38:12,198 --> 00:38:17,558
who was the guest that night i forget her name um i forget her name too i don't know she's some

446
00:38:17,558 --> 00:38:24,658
big pop star i can't remember like uh swift something swift taylor swift that's right yeah

447
00:38:24,658 --> 00:38:32,178
yeah i mean that had to been a pretty large uh what are the odds right that uh the night that

448
00:38:32,178 --> 00:38:39,138
you're gonna play on jimmy fallon it's one of the biggest stars uh it's a musical talent that's

449
00:38:39,138 --> 00:38:44,218
basically the guest so uh yeah it's just interesting that that would cross-pollinate

450
00:38:44,218 --> 00:38:46,538
with the format.

451
00:38:47,278 --> 00:38:48,298
Yeah, I don't know because I don't really

452
00:38:48,298 --> 00:38:50,478
have anything else

453
00:38:50,478 --> 00:38:51,798
to gauge it against.

454
00:38:52,238 --> 00:38:54,678
It was the first time

455
00:38:54,678 --> 00:38:56,318
that we played on TV

456
00:38:56,318 --> 00:38:58,878
in 20 years

457
00:38:58,878 --> 00:39:02,398
and it was the first

458
00:39:02,398 --> 00:39:04,518
that day was the first song that we released

459
00:39:04,518 --> 00:39:06,558
so it's like we couldn't even really gauge it against

460
00:39:06,558 --> 00:39:08,758
a previous song because it was the first

461
00:39:08,758 --> 00:39:09,058
song.

462
00:39:09,798 --> 00:39:12,618
I think it was helpful. I think we definitely got

463
00:39:12,618 --> 00:39:13,258
a lot of people

464
00:39:13,258 --> 00:39:18,578
commenting on those social media posts and stuff, you know,

465
00:39:18,578 --> 00:39:21,598
from the Jimmy Fallon posted or the show posted or whatever.

466
00:39:24,018 --> 00:39:26,678
Definitely a lot of people were like, Oh shit, these dudes are back.

467
00:39:26,758 --> 00:39:29,798
That's cool. So I helped in that, in that sense. I don't,

468
00:39:30,298 --> 00:39:32,758
it's interesting cause yeah, I mean, TV used to be such,

469
00:39:33,538 --> 00:39:37,478
when I was a kid and like even the first go around in this band,

470
00:39:37,558 --> 00:39:38,939
like TV was like the Holy grail.

471
00:39:39,018 --> 00:39:43,218
Like it would be incredible to get on David Letterman or Conan or one of

472
00:39:43,218 --> 00:39:48,419
those things that had maybe not as big of an impact as it did you know like in the 60s you'd

473
00:39:48,419 --> 00:39:53,218
get on ed sullivan and your life would change overnight or even in the 90s you'd get on snl or

474
00:39:53,218 --> 00:39:58,178
something and the next day everyone's you're just buzzing like everyone's talking about you

475
00:39:58,178 --> 00:40:04,018
and tv because of the internet tv has really changed a lot so it's still i mean it's just

476
00:40:04,018 --> 00:40:09,158
to be able to say i played the tonight show is a very cool thing even if from like a business

477
00:40:09,158 --> 00:40:15,238
standpoint it may not have the same impact as it as it as it once did it's still very um it's an

478
00:40:15,238 --> 00:40:22,038
honor to do it it's a classic show um and it was yeah it's an interesting i mean all of these things

479
00:40:22,038 --> 00:40:26,638
for me i have no expectations for anything so all these things to me are just really fun it's kind

480
00:40:26,638 --> 00:40:32,258
of like exciting to be able to go to rockefeller center and hang out took my kid and my wife and

481
00:40:32,258 --> 00:40:38,479
we just like hung out and like made fun of taylor swift and you know played a show and then got some

482
00:40:38,479 --> 00:40:42,618
got some burritos as a Bitcoin psychopath.

483
00:40:42,618 --> 00:40:46,758
Do you even have nerves anymore when you're about to play on this live?

484
00:40:47,058 --> 00:40:47,459
Yeah.

485
00:40:47,598 --> 00:40:49,498
Yeah, for sure.

486
00:40:50,218 --> 00:40:50,818
It's a,

487
00:40:50,818 --> 00:40:53,959
the logistics of playing on a show like that are actually still,

488
00:40:54,098 --> 00:40:54,538
I mean,

489
00:40:54,538 --> 00:40:54,878
when you're,

490
00:40:55,018 --> 00:40:56,058
when you're standing there,

491
00:40:56,258 --> 00:40:58,658
maybe training and pleb hood would have,

492
00:40:58,959 --> 00:40:59,258
you know,

493
00:40:59,258 --> 00:41:00,258
you're like a monk up there.

494
00:41:00,258 --> 00:41:00,338
No,

495
00:41:00,398 --> 00:41:03,518
it's still scary when you're standing there and you have like one chance to not

496
00:41:03,518 --> 00:41:04,278
screw this up.

497
00:41:04,278 --> 00:41:07,178
And you're looking over and like the roots are staring at you.

498
00:41:07,178 --> 00:41:12,538
some of the greatest musicians are on earth they're just like watching you

499
00:41:12,538 --> 00:41:15,178
judging waiting judging

500
00:41:15,178 --> 00:41:22,558
no it's very nerve-wracking but it's very it was cool cool experience yeah uh you met jimmy

501
00:41:22,558 --> 00:41:28,578
obviously you come into your uh the your is it green room or i don't even know what the what

502
00:41:28,578 --> 00:41:33,758
they would call that kind of uh the backstage yeah a little little green room yeah and i got

503
00:41:33,758 --> 00:41:34,598
I got to meet Jimmy.

504
00:41:34,598 --> 00:41:35,479
It was cool.

505
00:41:35,479 --> 00:41:37,298
He seemed like a nice guy.

506
00:41:37,298 --> 00:41:39,919
He's pretty, he seems like he's the same person

507
00:41:39,944 --> 00:41:43,304
uh, all the time. So I, I don't, I mean, I think,

508
00:41:43,544 --> 00:41:46,304
I feel like some people that are like on TV,

509
00:41:46,304 --> 00:41:50,504
they have like a totally different persona when they're not on it. Uh,

510
00:41:50,504 --> 00:41:53,444
maybe. Yeah, maybe. I'm sure. I mean, it's just like everybody else,

511
00:41:53,444 --> 00:41:54,784
but he's a performer. Like the,

512
00:41:54,864 --> 00:41:57,184
I think these people that have been performers their whole life,

513
00:41:57,184 --> 00:42:00,104
they're always kind of on, you know,

514
00:42:00,104 --> 00:42:03,564
I'm sure that there's moments where he goes in a dark room and,

515
00:42:03,564 --> 00:42:08,124
and cries or something gets, it gets real dark and deep, but.

516
00:42:08,124 --> 00:42:10,044
Are we talking about Jimmy or are we talking about Sam?

517
00:42:11,504 --> 00:42:12,904
I'm always talking about myself.

518
00:42:14,404 --> 00:42:14,764
Yeah.

519
00:42:14,764 --> 00:42:16,864
After this call, that's why I could only do like, you know,

520
00:42:17,084 --> 00:42:18,064
a buck 20 on this thing.

521
00:42:18,084 --> 00:42:19,024
Cause I got to go cry later.

522
00:42:20,364 --> 00:42:21,604
Eat a hot dog.

523
00:42:22,024 --> 00:42:22,384
Yeah.

524
00:42:23,864 --> 00:42:24,224
Yeah.

525
00:42:24,224 --> 00:42:25,304
But no, he was a nice dude.

526
00:42:25,664 --> 00:42:26,044
I don't know.

527
00:42:26,684 --> 00:42:26,904
Yeah.

528
00:42:26,924 --> 00:42:27,964
I'm sure it's, that's,

529
00:42:28,344 --> 00:42:31,144
that's gotta be some life to have to just always be on like that all the

530
00:42:31,144 --> 00:42:31,364
time.

531
00:42:31,404 --> 00:42:33,764
I can't even imagine how exhausting that must be.

532
00:42:34,704 --> 00:42:34,904
Yeah.

533
00:42:35,084 --> 00:42:35,544
Oh dude.

534
00:42:35,604 --> 00:42:36,184
Every night.

535
00:42:36,484 --> 00:42:37,104
That's crazy.

536
00:42:37,244 --> 00:42:37,504
Yeah.

537
00:42:37,504 --> 00:42:37,864
Is it,

538
00:42:37,864 --> 00:42:40,544
Is it only, is it on, is it every night?

539
00:42:41,144 --> 00:42:41,844
I think.

540
00:42:42,144 --> 00:42:42,444
I don't know.

541
00:42:42,584 --> 00:42:43,184
I don't, I don't watch.

542
00:42:43,324 --> 00:42:45,924
I don't remember the last time I actually watched that show.

543
00:42:46,044 --> 00:42:47,824
Is it even on TV or is it just on the internet?

544
00:42:48,044 --> 00:42:48,364
I think.

545
00:42:48,564 --> 00:42:49,324
I don't know, man.

546
00:42:49,324 --> 00:42:50,384
I found you on the internet.

547
00:42:50,384 --> 00:42:52,744
Cause I was like, wait, I think it mostly, yeah.

548
00:42:52,744 --> 00:42:55,484
I feel like it mostly travels on the internet.

549
00:42:57,204 --> 00:42:57,564
Yeah.

550
00:42:57,724 --> 00:42:58,484
I'm sure you can watch.

551
00:42:58,684 --> 00:42:58,864
Yeah.

552
00:42:58,864 --> 00:43:01,144
I guess we, we, we did actually come home and watch it on TV.

553
00:43:01,864 --> 00:43:01,964
So.

554
00:43:02,084 --> 00:43:02,344
Okay.

555
00:43:02,344 --> 00:43:07,324
And I will put the, the link to the performance on, in the show notes.

556
00:43:07,864 --> 00:43:16,924
There we go. You can see the beads of sweat running down Sam's head like that dude with the glasses and total recall.

557
00:43:18,384 --> 00:43:18,904
Melting.

558
00:43:20,364 --> 00:43:29,104
So how many, and I guess I didn't put together because I've been at your, I mean, the last time we recorded, I was hanging out in your upstairs room there.

559
00:43:29,124 --> 00:43:35,104
And there was just a bunch of little bells and whistle, different nostalgic musical instruments.

560
00:43:35,104 --> 00:43:38,744
but how many instruments do you actually play Sam?

561
00:43:39,404 --> 00:43:40,784
I don't really play that many.

562
00:43:40,904 --> 00:43:44,044
I play guitar mostly and not even very, not even that good.

563
00:43:45,744 --> 00:43:48,464
And I play, I taught myself how to play piano.

564
00:43:49,084 --> 00:43:52,224
So I can mostly just play songs that I've written on piano,

565
00:43:52,324 --> 00:43:54,204
but I, and I, and I can write songs on piano.

566
00:43:54,204 --> 00:43:58,064
But if someone was like, play, you know, Yellow Brick Road,

567
00:43:58,124 --> 00:43:59,304
I'd be like, get it, get out of here.

568
00:43:59,484 --> 00:43:59,964
Couldn't do that.

569
00:44:00,824 --> 00:44:01,684
Can't do anything like that.

570
00:44:01,684 --> 00:44:04,444
So, I mean, I would say just piano and guitar.

571
00:44:04,684 --> 00:44:09,244
And there are a lot of things that cross over into those realms.

572
00:44:09,244 --> 00:44:12,304
Like I can play a little bit of bass only because I can play guitar.

573
00:44:13,204 --> 00:44:18,504
And I can play, because of that, I can play, you know, my left hand on a piano is a little

574
00:44:18,504 --> 00:44:21,804
bit easier to understand because I'm kind of playing the baseline there.

575
00:44:21,804 --> 00:44:25,524
And these things all sort of work in tandem with each other.

576
00:44:25,644 --> 00:44:27,904
So it's like, if you can play guitar, you can kind of play a banjo.

577
00:44:27,904 --> 00:44:33,544
if you can play a banjo you can kind of play a mandolin you know lots of things like that but

578
00:44:33,544 --> 00:44:41,144
it's mostly i would never actually claim to know how to play anything respectfully um in any kind

579
00:44:41,144 --> 00:44:48,204
of respectable manner other than guitar and and maybe a little bit of piano yeah you're not doing

580
00:44:48,204 --> 00:44:55,024
solos on them here you're basically adding to tracks or um yeah yeah i'm not a solo guy anywhere

581
00:44:55,024 --> 00:44:56,864
on any planet.

582
00:44:57,104 --> 00:44:58,284
I'm a rhythm guy.

583
00:44:59,484 --> 00:45:01,044
Luckily, I don't have to play that much

584
00:45:01,044 --> 00:45:01,904
lead on anything.

585
00:45:03,744 --> 00:45:04,944
What about saxophone?

586
00:45:06,104 --> 00:45:07,224
I cannot

587
00:45:07,224 --> 00:45:08,044
play a saxophone.

588
00:45:08,944 --> 00:45:10,684
I wonder what Wikipedia

589
00:45:10,684 --> 00:45:11,764
says you play.

590
00:45:12,664 --> 00:45:14,424
They seem to know everything, right?

591
00:45:15,364 --> 00:45:16,604
Wikipedia, I don't know.

592
00:45:16,624 --> 00:45:18,744
Have you ever added to your Wikipedia bio?

593
00:45:19,324 --> 00:45:20,344
No, I wouldn't even know.

594
00:45:20,824 --> 00:45:21,844
Who does this?

595
00:45:22,444 --> 00:45:24,184
I don't think you can.

596
00:45:24,184 --> 00:45:24,984
How do they get it?

597
00:45:25,024 --> 00:45:30,224
can't you request i don't i have actually no idea who does any of that stuff

598
00:45:30,224 --> 00:45:36,244
it's just people it's pretty incredible it's like i mean it's like bitcoin core people just

599
00:45:36,244 --> 00:45:42,504
work on it people just go in and like work on things i don't know i don't know where they get

600
00:45:42,504 --> 00:45:50,224
this information yeah it's uh it's uh i don't have time for this right now but that's uh yeah

601
00:45:50,224 --> 00:45:53,724
Anybody, if you want to know Sam, look at his Wikipedia.

602
00:45:54,844 --> 00:45:57,764
You'll know more about him than he does pretty soon.

603
00:45:57,764 --> 00:45:57,924
Yeah.

604
00:45:57,944 --> 00:45:59,344
And I was editing yours this morning.

605
00:46:02,044 --> 00:46:02,844
No, no.

606
00:46:02,924 --> 00:46:03,784
I'm just trying to help out.

607
00:46:05,604 --> 00:46:07,124
Just fucking with it.

608
00:46:07,404 --> 00:46:07,564
Yeah.

609
00:46:07,564 --> 00:46:08,024
There's that.

610
00:46:08,164 --> 00:46:10,364
I added a section that said controversy.

611
00:46:13,244 --> 00:46:14,084
Opinion pieces.

612
00:46:14,544 --> 00:46:15,084
And yeah.

613
00:46:16,524 --> 00:46:20,124
So, I mean, and we've kind of talked about this, but it's kind of,

614
00:46:20,224 --> 00:46:24,624
It's kind of crazy because you got into merch through your original.

615
00:46:24,864 --> 00:46:27,324
And these are things I remember in our conversations.

616
00:46:28,064 --> 00:46:33,424
I mean, before we even went to this 20-year flash ahead, now you're on Fallon.

617
00:46:35,424 --> 00:46:38,224
You started doing merch in your first band.

618
00:46:38,864 --> 00:46:41,344
And you were kind of the merch guy on the side.

619
00:46:41,344 --> 00:46:45,224
And that's kind of what led to Hello Merch.

620
00:46:46,164 --> 00:46:46,284
Yeah.

621
00:46:46,284 --> 00:46:55,084
But now you basically are just a one-man army of, like, you were built for the merchandise you're making today.

622
00:46:55,844 --> 00:46:57,084
Does that make sense?

623
00:46:57,404 --> 00:46:59,324
Like, it's pretty wild.

624
00:46:59,444 --> 00:47:02,744
I don't think anybody's ever been in the music industry.

625
00:47:03,784 --> 00:47:10,064
Do you know anybody that's super into making merch to a point where they have an entire company?

626
00:47:10,884 --> 00:47:14,464
And they're actually designed their everything, basically, for their merch?

627
00:47:14,464 --> 00:47:23,444
not not really i mean i know that there have been a couple i think maybe i'm there's there's one

628
00:47:23,444 --> 00:47:28,824
dude in particular that was in a band called glass jaw and he started a company called merch

629
00:47:28,824 --> 00:47:34,384
direct and it was very very similar story where he was in he was making all the merch for his band

630
00:47:34,384 --> 00:47:41,564
glass glass jaw and then started a merch company in the east coast and still to this day is doing

631
00:47:41,564 --> 00:47:47,784
it i think so i'm not the only one but one of very few people who really sort of do all of it

632
00:47:47,784 --> 00:47:54,244
and the music part two um but yeah i mean to me it's i've always done it like you said i was i

633
00:47:54,244 --> 00:48:02,064
made the merch in my very first band and that was i was probably 16 so that was about five years ago

634
00:48:02,064 --> 00:48:09,724
um so yeah i've been doing it for a long time and it just feels natural to me just because i'm

635
00:48:09,724 --> 00:48:12,424
I'm always making merch for somebody or some something.

636
00:48:13,464 --> 00:48:14,264
So it's cool.

637
00:48:14,404 --> 00:48:15,104
Every once in a while,

638
00:48:15,144 --> 00:48:18,324
I just turn that back on myself and make some for,

639
00:48:18,424 --> 00:48:18,844
for me.

640
00:48:18,924 --> 00:48:19,424
It's cool.

641
00:48:19,804 --> 00:48:21,164
But at the core of it,

642
00:48:21,164 --> 00:48:21,384
you're,

643
00:48:21,484 --> 00:48:22,164
you're an artist.

644
00:48:22,364 --> 00:48:22,804
Um,

645
00:48:23,004 --> 00:48:23,504
you know,

646
00:48:23,524 --> 00:48:25,124
you are creating art.

647
00:48:25,244 --> 00:48:25,684
Uh,

648
00:48:25,744 --> 00:48:25,924
yeah.

649
00:48:25,924 --> 00:48:26,064
I mean,

650
00:48:26,064 --> 00:48:27,304
just like I,

651
00:48:27,384 --> 00:48:28,844
I create art just like I play guitar,

652
00:48:28,904 --> 00:48:29,884
like not super well,

653
00:48:29,904 --> 00:48:31,124
but well enough that it works.

654
00:48:31,464 --> 00:48:32,084
It's just,

655
00:48:32,224 --> 00:48:36,024
I think I have my own style and some people like it and it works for,

656
00:48:36,824 --> 00:48:37,684
it works for,

657
00:48:37,824 --> 00:48:39,104
for my project certainly.

658
00:48:39,104 --> 00:48:42,344
because it just has my personality on it.

659
00:48:42,384 --> 00:48:43,884
So that's why I always like doing that stuff.

660
00:48:46,984 --> 00:48:49,644
But there's plenty of technical people out there

661
00:48:49,644 --> 00:48:53,764
that make arguably much cooler, better merch than I do.

662
00:48:54,084 --> 00:48:58,904
But I think that's what's...

663
00:48:58,904 --> 00:49:00,244
Yeah, and I've always thought that's what...

664
00:49:00,244 --> 00:49:02,064
I think with anything that you create,

665
00:49:02,184 --> 00:49:04,864
the limitations are actually what make something interesting.

666
00:49:04,864 --> 00:49:08,484
I'm sure

667
00:49:08,484 --> 00:49:10,564
I'm sure you feel the same certain

668
00:49:10,564 --> 00:49:12,024
aspects of things that you do

669
00:49:12,024 --> 00:49:13,204
not at all man

670
00:49:13,204 --> 00:49:16,344
you only have four listeners

671
00:49:16,344 --> 00:49:17,904
so you can only take this so far

672
00:49:17,904 --> 00:49:18,424
you know

673
00:49:18,424 --> 00:49:22,524
you're allowed to be very expressive

674
00:49:22,524 --> 00:49:24,224
because you don't have to worry about bumming anybody out

675
00:49:24,224 --> 00:49:26,424
and it's always a trip to me

676
00:49:26,424 --> 00:49:27,724
when I see cassette tapes

677
00:49:27,724 --> 00:49:29,004
now because

678
00:49:29,004 --> 00:49:31,684
and CDs are coming back too

679
00:49:31,684 --> 00:49:33,324
yeah but that makes

680
00:49:33,324 --> 00:49:36,344
I mean, a CD makes more sense to me.

681
00:49:36,684 --> 00:49:37,364
It doesn't, though.

682
00:49:37,544 --> 00:49:38,324
I know.

683
00:49:38,424 --> 00:49:39,204
I know what you mean.

684
00:49:39,364 --> 00:49:40,104
I know what you mean.

685
00:49:40,184 --> 00:49:41,904
I'm curious how it makes more sense to you.

686
00:49:42,044 --> 00:49:43,904
Because it's just better quality to me.

687
00:49:44,724 --> 00:49:46,744
You know, you don't have to rewind, I suppose.

688
00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:50,844
Yeah, but like a record and a cassette, they have a very distinct sound to them.

689
00:49:50,844 --> 00:49:57,364
But you can't put a six-disc cassette player in your trunk and be driving on the street and go to disc two, you know?

690
00:49:57,524 --> 00:49:57,844
Yeah.

691
00:49:58,344 --> 00:50:00,824
But the CD is just a compressed digital file.

692
00:50:00,824 --> 00:50:03,004
So it's like it is basically just an MP3.

693
00:50:03,324 --> 00:50:07,644
So there's no like charm to it other than the artwork, which I,

694
00:50:07,764 --> 00:50:11,544
I appreciate it. I, I appreciate art of all shapes and sizes.

695
00:50:11,784 --> 00:50:11,904
So.

696
00:50:12,504 --> 00:50:16,624
Didn't say I didn't appreciate it. Just, just, just, I think I would opt to,

697
00:50:16,844 --> 00:50:20,544
if I'm not vinyl, then I, you gotta kind of like, okay,

698
00:50:20,544 --> 00:50:21,944
how many things am I going to listen to?

699
00:50:22,124 --> 00:50:23,864
I buy some, I buy some cassettes.

700
00:50:23,944 --> 00:50:25,664
What I like about cassettes is they're affordable.

701
00:50:26,404 --> 00:50:27,404
$9.99.

702
00:50:28,044 --> 00:50:28,444
Yeah.

703
00:50:28,584 --> 00:50:28,984
$9.99.

704
00:50:29,464 --> 00:50:30,764
Reorder today, the format.

705
00:50:31,344 --> 00:50:45,235
Yeah They they cheap They easy to make They quick quick to make I appreciate that about it Like the last EP that I put out of my own music I only released it on cassette and digital cause it was I wanted to have a

706
00:50:45,235 --> 00:50:50,815
uh, you know, like a physical product, but I didn't have the budget to do a record.

707
00:50:50,815 --> 00:50:54,575
So I was like, and I didn't have the time. So I record,

708
00:50:54,675 --> 00:50:58,615
I wrote and recorded it all in seven days and then released it on cassette.

709
00:50:58,615 --> 00:51:00,815
and I had the cassettes in like a week later, you know,

710
00:51:00,815 --> 00:51:03,735
so it's kind of cool to be able to make something fast.

711
00:51:04,755 --> 00:51:07,275
So I appreciate that about cassettes and even CDs.

712
00:51:07,415 --> 00:51:10,615
CDs are very affordable and have quick turnaround where records are,

713
00:51:10,615 --> 00:51:15,995
are a little bit more involved. So, so I, I appreciate it all.

714
00:51:16,115 --> 00:51:16,735
I like it all.

715
00:51:17,495 --> 00:51:20,535
Well, I like the fact that the, it's $2 more than the digital.

716
00:51:20,895 --> 00:51:23,635
Oh, I guess the CD is too, a 989.

717
00:51:25,295 --> 00:51:26,715
You know, it's interesting.

718
00:51:26,715 --> 00:51:28,755
And that's going to ship out of Hello Merch?

719
00:51:28,895 --> 00:51:30,695
Or is it drop ships from somewhere else?

720
00:51:30,775 --> 00:51:31,055
Oh, no.

721
00:51:31,115 --> 00:51:31,935
Yeah, we're doing all of it.

722
00:51:31,995 --> 00:51:33,155
It's all shipping out of Hello Merch.

723
00:51:33,935 --> 00:51:34,335
Sweet.

724
00:51:34,335 --> 00:51:43,195
So you can actually, your leverage in the shipping, your core competency there is actually going to help with the pricing of things.

725
00:51:43,715 --> 00:51:44,595
Oh, for sure.

726
00:51:44,815 --> 00:51:45,015
Yeah.

727
00:51:45,275 --> 00:51:48,935
I'm saving the band a lot of money by doing our merch.

728
00:51:49,175 --> 00:51:49,395
That's for sure.

729
00:51:49,395 --> 00:51:50,955
Is that why you're in the band at this point?

730
00:51:51,575 --> 00:51:51,815
Yes.

731
00:51:52,435 --> 00:51:52,795
Yeah.

732
00:51:53,675 --> 00:51:55,595
You know, I need a new customer.

733
00:51:56,715 --> 00:52:05,915
dude i'm kind of looking at the uh oh the signed album sold out um are you going to sign any more

734
00:52:05,915 --> 00:52:14,055
albums or was that limited uh limited that was limited and i i'm not that was a um we didn't i

735
00:52:14,055 --> 00:52:17,695
just want to make it known we did not charge more for that because that's something i'm looking it's

736
00:52:17,695 --> 00:52:21,875
all 24.99 yeah that's something i actually think is kind of disgusting is just charge for your

737
00:52:21,875 --> 00:52:27,975
signature, but, um, some people do really like having signed things and I appreciate that the

738
00:52:27,975 --> 00:52:33,715
people out there. So we did agree to do a small amount of, of signed stuff just for the people

739
00:52:33,715 --> 00:52:39,515
that really do like that stuff. Um, and I'll, I mean, I'm always sign anything. If someone really

740
00:52:39,515 --> 00:52:43,855
wants me to, I think it's hilarious when someone wants me to sign something, but I'll do it.

741
00:52:44,155 --> 00:52:48,095
Yeah. I think I have your signature on a Noster PHX poster.

742
00:52:48,095 --> 00:52:49,715
On a forged check.

743
00:52:50,475 --> 00:52:51,395
They still have my office.

744
00:52:53,915 --> 00:52:55,435
I'm on the website right now.

745
00:52:55,595 --> 00:52:57,775
Can I pay in Bitcoin for this vinyl?

746
00:52:58,315 --> 00:52:59,215
You can, actually.

747
00:52:59,915 --> 00:53:00,395
Really?

748
00:53:00,735 --> 00:53:01,575
Yeah, of course you can.

749
00:53:02,735 --> 00:53:04,015
That's sweet, dude.

750
00:53:04,255 --> 00:53:05,895
I did not know that.

751
00:53:05,895 --> 00:53:09,435
I thought that was only on the mysterious lightning store side of things.

752
00:53:09,595 --> 00:53:09,775
Oh, no.

753
00:53:09,875 --> 00:53:12,775
Helimerch has a BTC pay server.

754
00:53:13,855 --> 00:53:15,315
Has for many years.

755
00:53:15,555 --> 00:53:16,975
Oh, there's the link down at the bottom.

756
00:53:17,195 --> 00:53:17,375
Yeah.

757
00:53:17,375 --> 00:53:26,535
yeah it's there so i mean technically you can sell the satoshi shirt on on hello merch right

758
00:53:26,535 --> 00:53:34,115
could technically well no i couldn't because i i'm not able to receive fiat so even though you

759
00:53:34,115 --> 00:53:39,195
could buy it with bitcoin i can't i'd have to somehow limit it to limit the shopping cart so

760
00:53:39,195 --> 00:53:46,535
it's only bitcoin and i don't think that that'd be tough yeah wow but yeah everybody has the option

761
00:53:46,535 --> 00:53:59,575
to use lightning or bitcoin or um all of our you know our pleb chain coin that we issued last year

762
00:53:59,575 --> 00:54:05,235
that's good that works anything that's like anything that'll fit in a meta mask

763
00:54:05,235 --> 00:54:08,975
wallet did you get the update by the way yeah i just

764
00:54:08,975 --> 00:54:20,495
yeah you could do a thousand more shit coins uh yeah yeah the uh so you did your original launch

765
00:54:20,495 --> 00:54:28,015
of the uh your your comeback tour i'll call it uh was it four four shows yes three cities four

766
00:54:28,015 --> 00:54:34,655
shows we did um big one in phoenix at the mad ass mcdowell anyone well let's talk about this first

767
00:54:34,655 --> 00:54:38,495
so you you're planning four shows and you're thinking to yourself all right we'll just do

768
00:54:38,495 --> 00:54:42,595
these four shows these are big cities phoenix obviously hometown but we'll you know you're

769
00:54:42,595 --> 00:54:50,135
looking for that kind of guaranteed we're going to get some reception right yeah and how obviously

770
00:54:50,135 --> 00:54:54,975
i was talking to you i'm like dude this this sucks because i was i was trying to get the uh

771
00:54:55,575 --> 00:55:02,495
the when the when the tickets launched uh everything broke and i asked you at the time like

772
00:55:02,495 --> 00:55:08,475
how is this broken or is everyone rushing and you you you were basically kind of amazed i

773
00:55:08,475 --> 00:55:12,435
I think, uh, at the, of the volume that was going on.

774
00:55:13,015 --> 00:55:14,875
Was, was that what you were expecting?

775
00:55:15,015 --> 00:55:17,355
Was it something where you're like, Holy crap, you know,

776
00:55:17,515 --> 00:55:22,335
you had to be hometown after 20 years. And we did,

777
00:55:22,335 --> 00:55:25,495
we'd put those shows on sale in 2020 at the,

778
00:55:25,675 --> 00:55:29,335
we were initially going to play the Van Buren and ended up selling out. Um,

779
00:55:29,615 --> 00:55:31,635
and we added a night and that one ended up selling out.

780
00:55:31,715 --> 00:55:34,795
We added a third night and that one ended up selling out really quickly,

781
00:55:34,795 --> 00:55:42,235
all within a matter of minutes actually back then in 2020 so we we expected you know some level

782
00:55:42,235 --> 00:55:48,855
of craziness there but definitely not what happened i mean that was the whole reason we

783
00:55:48,855 --> 00:55:51,875
we played the state fair because we're like this will be really funny

784
00:55:51,875 --> 00:55:59,555
we we can play the bit like one of the biggest rooms in the city and never have to worry about

785
00:55:59,555 --> 00:56:04,335
it selling out and it'll just be and it won't be like a bummer because it'll just be the state fair

786
00:56:04,335 --> 00:56:09,095
so it'll be fine you know like if there's yeah if you guys suck we still got a fair yeah like a

787
00:56:09,095 --> 00:56:13,375
few thousand people show up like so what it's not like a bummer it's not like oh wow they they went

788
00:56:13,375 --> 00:56:16,895
for it you know like they really went for it and didn't sell out the room it's like no one would

789
00:56:16,895 --> 00:56:23,515
expect like no one ever sells out the fair um so that was the idea is like if we can convince them

790
00:56:23,515 --> 00:56:29,495
to let us actually play the fair then that would be a really fun thing to do and then we wouldn't

791
00:56:29,495 --> 00:56:33,255
have to worry about because it was a bummer for some people couldn't go or just the ticket

792
00:56:33,255 --> 00:56:38,575
experience did actually suck for a lot of people back in 2020 so we thought like oh this will solve

793
00:56:38,575 --> 00:56:45,055
all the problems we can just play this big show this big room that'll never sell out um so when

794
00:56:45,055 --> 00:56:51,215
it did it was very it didn't actually was pretty convinced it was like bots and stuff because i was

795
00:56:51,215 --> 00:56:56,375
pretty nervous up until the night of because i was just like noster dude dark noster yeah i was

796
00:56:56,375 --> 00:57:01,195
like this is this is really weird like this is not making any sense this like a lot of people are

797
00:57:01,195 --> 00:57:05,875
probably buying these some bots are buying these thinking they'll be able to resell and they're not

798
00:57:05,875 --> 00:57:11,055
going to be able to like it's just going to end up with a big empty room after we've told everybody

799
00:57:11,055 --> 00:57:16,775
it's sold out but um that ended up not being the case they were real people and it was a really

800
00:57:16,775 --> 00:57:25,395
cool show it's a lot a lot of people and the other uh the others i think what new york and la

801
00:57:25,395 --> 00:57:29,695
yeah that was just i mean that was another thing too we were like trying to avoid playing

802
00:57:29,695 --> 00:57:35,155
live nation rooms i still do where we are playing some on the spring tour but

803
00:57:35,155 --> 00:57:41,215
the neva crowd yeah i mean my preference is to play independent rooms as much as we can

804
00:57:41,215 --> 00:57:46,735
there's not a lot of independent rooms at the size or it that gets harder to do when you're

805
00:57:46,735 --> 00:57:51,815
playing bigger size rooms because unfortunately live nation's come in and bought up all these

806
00:57:51,815 --> 00:57:55,815
big rooms even i mean even van buren now it's owned by live nation where it wasn't before

807
00:57:55,815 --> 00:58:02,235
yeah because i thought that was part of uh was it part of crescent and valley bar yeah group

808
00:58:02,235 --> 00:58:05,695
crescent valley bar and live nation were all started by this guy charlie levy who's a good

809
00:58:05,695 --> 00:58:12,295
and not live nation van buren yeah yeah van buren i love van buren as a as a venue uh their green

810
00:58:12,295 --> 00:58:17,995
room is amazing too uh yeah it's really cool it's a beautiful room he did a great job and all the

811
00:58:17,995 --> 00:58:23,575
people that are were involved with that did great um and they just opened up a new room in tucson

812
00:58:23,575 --> 00:58:27,595
called La Rosa, which is a small crescent-sized room in an old church.

813
00:58:28,375 --> 00:58:29,655
And we're actually playing there.

814
00:58:29,655 --> 00:58:29,775
And that's December.

815
00:58:31,935 --> 00:58:33,995
It's a Monday, I believe, you play there.

816
00:58:34,275 --> 00:58:35,355
15th or something, I think.

817
00:58:35,495 --> 00:58:39,335
I know, because obviously life happened.

818
00:58:39,495 --> 00:58:41,995
I was supposed to go to your show in Phoenix.

819
00:58:41,995 --> 00:58:42,815
Yeah, thanks for showing up.

820
00:58:44,655 --> 00:58:46,955
My mother-in-law had something lodged her throat.

821
00:58:47,075 --> 00:58:50,755
She was our babysitter, and she had to go to the hospital.

822
00:58:50,755 --> 00:58:57,235
and it was happened to be a monsoon night um so yeah it was also storming like crazy

823
00:58:57,235 --> 00:59:01,895
right so which was i was like wow people are going to the state fair and it's storming uh we'll see

824
00:59:01,895 --> 00:59:07,015
how this goes yeah it was a little scary but it worked out but i've been wanting to go back and i

825
00:59:07,015 --> 00:59:12,035
want but i'll be in rocky point actually i'll be mexico uh i'm kind of pissed that you're doing the

826
00:59:12,035 --> 00:59:18,175
tucson show on a monday uh when i'm out of town but it's also an acoustic show excuses yeah that

827
00:59:18,175 --> 00:59:19,175
That one's an acoustic show.

828
00:59:19,175 --> 00:59:22,415
So, but anyway, yeah, we, there are other rooms we picked.

829
00:59:22,495 --> 00:59:38,106
We just trying to trying to play rooms that didn that weren um as corporate Is that the compromise is is is is the acoustic show going to be kind of the way you can play smaller rooms

830
00:59:38,666 --> 00:59:49,206
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, we can play smaller rooms. We can play wherever we want, obviously, but it's not a great fan experience to just keep doing that because people want to see you play.

831
00:59:49,206 --> 01:00:10,366
And so if you have, we're very fortunate to have some demand of people that want to see us play. So we play a certain size room that we think is reasonable to meet that demand. And we also keep tickets as cheap as we can, which is increasingly harder to do these days.

832
01:00:10,366 --> 01:00:17,486
but um our tickets are always like you know 25 to 35 bucks which i think is pretty reasonable

833
01:00:17,486 --> 01:00:22,506
these days um at that size room in the size room that we're playing so

834
01:00:22,506 --> 01:00:28,306
uh but yeah if we want to play smaller stuff i think especially like around the holidays and

835
01:00:28,306 --> 01:00:33,046
you know we we used to do this stuff back in the day we'd play like a holiday show or something and

836
01:00:33,046 --> 01:00:38,666
our actually our first show ever was a was a like a christmas show in the nile basement and it was

837
01:00:38,666 --> 01:00:43,346
acoustic and we played we played acoustic quite a bit back in the day so it's very normal for us to

838
01:00:43,346 --> 01:00:48,506
do kind of do that in between tours so we'll probably keep doing those sorts of things just

839
01:00:48,506 --> 01:00:54,826
to change it a little bit an acoustic show i mean is that just two of you or yeah well these ones

840
01:00:54,826 --> 01:00:59,686
are just going to be two of us but we've done them in the past and we'll do other things like this

841
01:00:59,686 --> 01:01:05,766
in the future that we're working planning on now where we'll do like a bigger we just want to change

842
01:01:05,766 --> 01:01:09,246
it up. So we'll do full band shows. We'll do stripped down acoustic shows. We'll do

843
01:01:09,246 --> 01:01:13,106
some bit, you know, bigger acoustic shows that more, more people involved that have

844
01:01:13,106 --> 01:01:21,206
slightly different sounds. We just like doing different stuff. Um, but yeah, I mean, you know,

845
01:01:21,546 --> 01:01:26,246
when you start getting out and traveling around, you're going to eventually hit some of these

846
01:01:26,246 --> 01:01:33,926
places that are owned by people that, um, you wish they weren't owned by, but that's just kind

847
01:01:33,926 --> 01:01:38,506
that is some of the trade-off and some of the compromise out there is like sometimes in this

848
01:01:38,506 --> 01:01:45,806
world you are going to engage with things that maybe aren't optimal but we try to play independent

849
01:01:45,806 --> 01:01:51,026
rooms as much as we can and definitely favor those when we're looking at offers and stuff for

850
01:01:51,026 --> 01:01:55,966
for shows so that's why when we did this first one at run it was it actually was pretty important

851
01:01:55,966 --> 01:02:05,646
to me for those in particular to do um rooms that were outside of that live nation aeg world and um

852
01:02:05,646 --> 01:02:10,666
so we did the hollywood forever cemetery in la and then we did the beacon theater

853
01:02:10,666 --> 01:02:20,026
in new york which is a bowery ballroom room um so yeah it was cool the that that run was really

854
01:02:20,026 --> 01:02:28,806
really special and how's uh how's the uh roadmap looking for uh our buddy open mic

855
01:02:28,806 --> 01:02:35,626
uh we're playing it we're actually playing one of his rooms actually the turf club in december

856
01:02:35,626 --> 01:02:43,046
in saint paul is a first avenue independent room um we're playing like a weird matinee show

857
01:02:43,046 --> 01:02:47,226
which we had to do because the other their other rooms were all full so

858
01:02:47,226 --> 01:02:55,786
we're playing like a 1 p.m. show just to just to play with them how do we get that on toonster

859
01:02:55,786 --> 01:02:59,366
i'm excited that worked out uh that one probably won't be on toonster i don't think

860
01:02:59,366 --> 01:03:07,306
i don't think we'll be broadcasting these just yet um but you know you never know down the road

861
01:03:07,306 --> 01:03:14,346
how i mean comparing uh you know nerves and obviously just thinking about toonster i'm sure

862
01:03:14,346 --> 01:03:16,786
you're getting a little bit rattled.

863
01:03:17,086 --> 01:03:22,706
But between playing the Tonight Show versus a Toonster launch,

864
01:03:23,986 --> 01:03:26,946
how much more nervous would you be for a Toonster?

865
01:03:27,986 --> 01:03:30,866
I think Toonster is really the pinnacle of success.

866
01:03:32,686 --> 01:03:38,246
So there's the Tonight Show, SNL, and then a Toonster performance.

867
01:03:39,106 --> 01:03:39,306
Yeah.

868
01:03:39,646 --> 01:03:42,726
I mean, that's clearly the Tonight Show is the launch.

869
01:03:42,726 --> 01:03:52,026
Toonster actually might be more nerve wracking because as we know, there tend to be a lot of technical difficulties when it comes to doing those nostrils.

870
01:03:52,026 --> 01:03:54,346
A little lag between the video and the audio.

871
01:03:54,366 --> 01:03:55,526
Yeah, the sound doesn't work.

872
01:03:57,526 --> 01:03:59,526
Things happen, but that's the fun part.

873
01:04:01,266 --> 01:04:03,766
That's definitely the fun part, but it can be frustrating.

874
01:04:03,766 --> 01:04:16,246
I'm sure he's done a couple more since then, but the last Toonster event I was a part of was at the Ainsley show and kind of side event in Vegas.

875
01:04:16,246 --> 01:04:18,086
And it was it was not working.

876
01:04:18,546 --> 01:04:20,466
It was not working like we needed it to.

877
01:04:21,246 --> 01:04:22,846
So, yeah, it's a little.

878
01:04:24,246 --> 01:04:25,426
It's a little much sometimes.

879
01:04:25,626 --> 01:04:29,786
So hopefully, as we know, the technology will always get better.

880
01:04:29,786 --> 01:04:36,946
so the band the format it's how do you come up with that name the format

881
01:04:36,946 --> 01:04:45,066
i just like anything else you know just throwing out ideas and something works and the domain names

882
01:04:45,066 --> 01:04:52,506
available we our first song we ever put out was called the first single our first release we ever

883
01:04:52,506 --> 01:04:59,386
put out was just called ep so i think we were just at that time playing into just the simplicity

884
01:04:59,386 --> 01:05:03,626
of the music industry

885
01:05:03,626 --> 01:05:08,146
and just trying to be very generic in some way.

886
01:05:08,846 --> 01:05:11,766
At a time when a lot of bands were

887
01:05:11,766 --> 01:05:14,386
in the emo and screamo days,

888
01:05:14,546 --> 01:05:17,286
people had these ridiculous names

889
01:05:17,286 --> 01:05:20,186
like Death Cab for Cutie and whatever.

890
01:05:20,186 --> 01:05:24,586
There's these very emotional, long-winded names

891
01:05:24,586 --> 01:05:32,626
or something like Bright Eyes or something.

892
01:05:33,326 --> 01:05:35,086
Some name that's trying to make some statement

893
01:05:35,086 --> 01:05:37,686
to just play into what it is.

894
01:05:37,786 --> 01:05:39,906
So you can just see the band name

895
01:05:39,906 --> 01:05:41,606
and just kind of know what they're going to sound like.

896
01:05:42,066 --> 01:05:44,086
We thought it would be funny if we just had a band

897
01:05:44,086 --> 01:05:45,246
that was just called The Format

898
01:05:45,246 --> 01:05:50,786
and it had no real, I don't know,

899
01:05:50,846 --> 01:05:52,346
maybe just a little bit more ambiguous.

900
01:05:52,346 --> 01:05:58,886
your black album or your you know just uh yeah everything's just very simple and that's we've

901
01:05:58,886 --> 01:06:05,346
kind of maintained that over the years just kind of keeping everything kind of you know in a similar

902
01:06:05,346 --> 01:06:12,386
style don't we don't drift too far outside of the the um the personality that the band has

903
01:06:12,386 --> 01:06:20,066
established over the course of several decades now and then you came to boycott heaven yeah we

904
01:06:20,066 --> 01:06:24,766
changed a little bit with boycott heaven i guess maybe that was a bit more of a a bit more of a

905
01:06:24,766 --> 01:06:33,106
jump there but um there's still a faceless cover which is in line um yeah and that's uh

906
01:06:33,106 --> 01:06:39,546
all of our albums are sans sans faces crystal mary yeah we got crystal mary which sounds like a

907
01:06:39,546 --> 01:06:41,006
like a doors song

908
01:06:41,006 --> 01:06:50,286
it's is that a strain of meth uh crystal mary yeah hey man he got you that crystal mary uh

909
01:06:50,286 --> 01:06:56,446
yeah that's a that's a very beautiful piece of art by this australian artist kyle montgomery

910
01:06:56,446 --> 01:07:05,006
he did um that's that's his it's he makes these figures of these things um it's not even just

911
01:07:05,006 --> 01:07:09,206
mary's he's done other things like taxidermy with crystals kind of coming out of like this crazy

912
01:07:09,206 --> 01:07:15,086
things but um it's very cool looking and it was very fitting with the album title we thought it

913
01:07:15,086 --> 01:07:19,826
was it was thought it was great so we reached out to him and he agreed to let us use that

914
01:07:19,826 --> 01:07:26,586
imagery for the the record and um yeah i think it's cool how long have you been working on this album

915
01:07:26,586 --> 01:07:36,806
um we started it we started writing it um a little over a year ago probably we started

916
01:07:36,806 --> 01:07:42,486
recording it the first first week behind my back yeah behind your back and first week of january

917
01:07:42,486 --> 01:07:48,426
this year actually started recording it went out to la for a few months and recorded it there so

918
01:07:48,426 --> 01:07:55,666
that's why we didn't do nostril phx culture shack uh as one of those but one of the reasons how dare

919
01:07:55,666 --> 01:08:01,086
you one of many reasons i think but yeah that was maybe one of the reasons that was one of the that

920
01:08:01,086 --> 01:08:04,786
was definitely the reason i wasn't there although i think you guys could have kept kept it going but

921
01:08:04,786 --> 01:08:11,566
yeah um that those things don't have to happen every year you know you could take a little bit

922
01:08:11,566 --> 01:08:17,146
of a break and come back when it when it makes sense when there's a reason to 20 years yeah 20

923
01:08:17,146 --> 01:08:22,006
years 20 years we might have 12 we might go from 12 people showing up to 12 000 showing up you never

924
01:08:22,006 --> 01:08:39,856
know the the children of the people that were at the first one exactly exactly time is the cocoon Maybe Ainsley Costello kids are going to be there it going to be cool oh man uh yeah so so when you wait so you been working on it for a year but when you

925
01:08:39,856 --> 01:08:45,836
were doing your 20-year launch that was uh when so you were just actually going to do the 20-year

926
01:08:45,836 --> 01:08:51,716
nostalgic tour nostalgia yeah I mean we weren't thinking of it that way necessarily but yeah we

927
01:08:51,716 --> 01:08:56,836
were just gonna play some shows and then see what happened and it was 20 years of what dog problem

928
01:08:56,836 --> 01:09:03,576
or no that was no that's next year actually will be that um no this was in 2020 so it was like

929
01:09:03,576 --> 01:09:09,216
12 years probably since the last time we had played and about 14 years from the last

930
01:09:09,216 --> 01:09:16,596
record we put out um so it was just because the time the time just was right with everybody

931
01:09:16,596 --> 01:09:20,056
everybody could do it we'd been talking about it for even several years before that but

932
01:09:20,056 --> 01:09:26,856
we just couldn't get it together because everyone lives in a different state um and has jobs and

933
01:09:26,856 --> 01:09:32,756
kids and things going on so uh in 2020 it just that's when it all lined up when everyone could

934
01:09:32,756 --> 01:09:38,776
do it and then it took about five years for it to line up again but now now we're there and um

935
01:09:39,976 --> 01:09:45,516
yeah we went i guess yeah started working on music before which that wasn't the case at all

936
01:09:45,516 --> 01:09:51,516
last time so um slightly different approach but a lot a lot of time went by so there's a reason for

937
01:09:51,516 --> 01:09:54,736
that we were we were sort of working on stuff during covid too just because we were bored

938
01:09:54,736 --> 01:10:02,396
we were working on like a fake pop punk album at one point in time just just out of pure boredom

939
01:10:02,396 --> 01:10:08,276
um passing stuff around but um yeah just evolved into something else

940
01:10:08,276 --> 01:10:17,856
isn't it a little poetic that uh you played at the madhouse at mcdowell uh your the format

941
01:10:17,856 --> 01:10:24,956
jerseys were essentially replicas of that purple palace jersey uh the sun's og jerseys uh well at

942
01:10:24,956 --> 01:10:32,516
least in the 90s when they were ripping um but uh yeah that was the pre-america west arena jersey

943
01:10:32,516 --> 01:10:40,296
yeah yeah but the purple and orange uh i mean that's kind of your uh we we all the plebs are

944
01:10:40,296 --> 01:10:47,136
are drawn to it now at least the nostriges that uh that that that value um you know decentralized

945
01:10:47,136 --> 01:10:54,636
or permissionless uh social media but uh it's an interesting coincidence there between the

946
01:10:54,636 --> 01:10:59,476
the Phoenix colors and the, and the pleb chain colors.

947
01:11:02,116 --> 01:11:03,616
So what, what,

948
01:11:03,736 --> 01:11:07,636
anything that you want to talk about that we haven't any,

949
01:11:07,876 --> 01:11:08,636
and I guess I'll,

950
01:11:08,636 --> 01:11:11,296
I'll ask you for a few links cause I'll put them in the show notes for all,

951
01:11:11,416 --> 01:11:15,176
all seven of us here. But you know, we gotta,

952
01:11:15,496 --> 01:11:19,516
if anything's going to push album sales, Sam, it's going to be our listeners.

953
01:11:19,836 --> 01:11:22,276
Oh yeah. I'm going to run and check the stats right after this,

954
01:11:22,356 --> 01:11:23,396
after this airs.

955
01:11:23,396 --> 01:11:25,936
How many shows you got lined up?

956
01:11:26,076 --> 01:11:27,336
Maybe you don't know the exact number.

957
01:11:27,456 --> 01:11:28,836
Any of them you're looking forward to?

958
01:11:29,376 --> 01:11:31,676
Anything, any venues that you're looking forward to?

959
01:11:32,056 --> 01:11:33,776
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to all of them.

960
01:11:33,856 --> 01:11:34,496
They're all going to be cool.

961
01:11:34,616 --> 01:11:39,236
But in particular, playing Nashville, the Ryman.

962
01:11:39,536 --> 01:11:42,816
It's a beautiful, historic, cool room I've always wanted to play.

963
01:11:45,096 --> 01:11:48,456
Stoked to see Open Mic in St. Paul.

964
01:11:49,476 --> 01:11:50,296
The big mall.

965
01:11:50,396 --> 01:11:51,736
You just want to go to the Mall of America.

966
01:11:51,736 --> 01:11:55,636
I'm definitely stoked to see open mic at malls.

967
01:11:56,216 --> 01:11:56,616
Yeah.

968
01:11:57,496 --> 01:11:58,836
I'm going to hit that roller coaster.

969
01:12:00,896 --> 01:12:01,216
Yeah.

970
01:12:01,256 --> 01:12:02,076
Lots of really cool play.

971
01:12:02,116 --> 01:12:02,256
I mean,

972
01:12:02,256 --> 01:12:02,836
it's going to be fun.

973
01:12:02,876 --> 01:12:03,616
I think we got about,

974
01:12:03,616 --> 01:12:05,856
I don't even know,

975
01:12:05,956 --> 01:12:07,936
16 or 17 shows lined up right now.

976
01:12:08,036 --> 01:12:11,296
And we're playing a big festival in Iowa next year.

977
01:12:11,356 --> 01:12:11,856
That'll be cool.

978
01:12:11,936 --> 01:12:14,496
I haven't done a festival in many years.

979
01:12:14,636 --> 01:12:15,456
So that'll be exciting.

980
01:12:16,016 --> 01:12:16,376
Iowa.

981
01:12:16,616 --> 01:12:17,656
Is that like the state?

982
01:12:17,876 --> 01:12:18,796
Isn't the Iowa,

983
01:12:18,796 --> 01:12:21,676
isn't Iowa doing the big state fair or maybe,

984
01:12:21,736 --> 01:12:26,996
they already did i don't i don't know i don't know this is just like 250 years uh yeah anyways

985
01:12:26,996 --> 01:12:33,576
this is world fair oh they're doing a world fair there well i thought that with the 250 year uh

986
01:12:33,576 --> 01:12:41,956
united states i could be wrong um yeah but yeah i don't know iowa interesting yeah these guys have

987
01:12:41,956 --> 01:12:46,376
asked us to play for like four or five years in a row so now we're actually we're actually playing

988
01:12:46,376 --> 01:12:52,476
again so we we said yes this time so that'll be that'll be cool playing with some cool bands there

989
01:12:52,476 --> 01:12:56,896
um yeah it's gonna be great man looking forward to it

990
01:12:57,656 --> 01:13:03,836
sorry i got i got sidetracked into the iowa state fair checking your email

991
01:13:03,836 --> 01:13:11,396
checking my uh spam and my email it's just me it's just me it should be more interesting

992
01:13:11,396 --> 01:13:12,836
It's just me texting you, wrap it up.

993
01:13:15,696 --> 01:13:18,076
Me texting you a picture of me tapping on my watch.

994
01:13:18,976 --> 01:13:21,696
So everything is going good, Sam.

995
01:13:21,856 --> 01:13:28,036
I'm really, you know, I'm a little pissed off that I didn't know about all this,

996
01:13:28,156 --> 01:13:30,516
but at the same time, it's amazing.

997
01:13:31,436 --> 01:13:33,796
And I think you're doing a lot.

998
01:13:34,196 --> 01:13:36,176
I think you're bringing your daughter to a lot of this.

999
01:13:36,176 --> 01:13:41,336
So it's something she can experience that she wouldn't have never had this opportunity.

1000
01:13:41,396 --> 01:13:45,196
that's actually the coolest part about it is just being able to share this part of my

1001
01:13:45,196 --> 01:13:52,316
life yeah with with this new like see what daddy did before you yeah now now look yeah

1002
01:13:52,316 --> 01:13:58,496
yeah she's she's having a blast and there's and you know people in our band have kids her age and

1003
01:13:58,496 --> 01:14:03,796
they're all hanging out it's been really super cool and fun to experience all this stuff with

1004
01:14:03,796 --> 01:14:10,316
her so that's that's definitely a big part of why i'm doing it is just to be able to show her

1005
01:14:10,316 --> 01:14:14,116
that part of my life,

1006
01:14:14,276 --> 01:14:17,196
which you never know if you get a chance to do stuff like that again.

1007
01:14:17,256 --> 01:14:17,976
Usually you don't.

1008
01:14:18,316 --> 01:14:22,216
So I'm very, again, very fortunate, stoked to be doing it

1009
01:14:22,216 --> 01:14:24,816
and still be able to do all these other things.

1010
01:14:24,816 --> 01:14:27,796
Except for lighting store.

1011
01:14:28,756 --> 01:14:28,956
Yeah.

1012
01:14:29,176 --> 01:14:29,656
That's dead.

1013
01:14:30,416 --> 01:14:33,676
Any other plans for a Phoenix show?

1014
01:14:34,296 --> 01:14:39,116
Maybe just like a rebel lounge, just very small, intimate.

1015
01:14:40,316 --> 01:14:45,596
just for me maybe well now comes out we're definitely be doing some some stuff around there

1016
01:14:45,596 --> 01:14:52,496
um some hometown you know album release type things those would be cool um i'm not sure exactly

1017
01:14:52,496 --> 01:14:58,016
where when or where those are going to be but um i can imagine there will be some things around there

1018
01:14:58,016 --> 01:15:04,756
and then yeah i mean it's the hometown so do a flag flagstaff show would love to do a flagstaff

1019
01:15:04,756 --> 01:15:09,396
show i like going to shows up there and get the hell out of the heat there's i don't know if it's

1020
01:15:09,396 --> 01:15:12,316
still there. Maybe it's called something else, but there's a really cool venue there called the

1021
01:15:12,316 --> 01:15:17,776
Orpheum. Orpheum. Yeah. That's, I think that's the only venue there short of like outdoor festivals.

1022
01:15:17,996 --> 01:15:22,896
Yeah. I don't know. It's a cool place to play. Yeah. Well, it might, it might be too small for

1023
01:15:22,896 --> 01:15:26,956
you though, Sam, you're kind of big time now, buddy. No, nothing's too small.

1024
01:15:29,076 --> 01:15:35,676
All right. Well, Hey man, uh, thanks for, uh, showing up. Uh, it was a great show. I'm,

1025
01:15:35,676 --> 01:15:38,356
I'm happy that we, you know, Avi wasn't here.

1026
01:15:38,956 --> 01:15:42,936
You know, he gave me the flexibility to just have one-on-ones with Sam.

1027
01:15:42,956 --> 01:15:43,796
That's what I do now.

1028
01:15:44,276 --> 01:15:48,016
Every show is just a long conversation with Sam.

1029
01:15:48,496 --> 01:15:50,556
Yeah, this one's not going to be behind the paywall.

1030
01:15:50,736 --> 01:15:52,356
I'm just hanging on your coattail.

1031
01:15:53,116 --> 01:15:55,536
Just not behind the paywall.

1032
01:15:55,616 --> 01:15:56,736
So everyone's going to listen.

1033
01:15:57,096 --> 01:15:57,436
Nice.

1034
01:15:57,436 --> 01:15:58,976
Everyone who normally would.

1035
01:15:59,356 --> 01:16:02,296
So thank you for showing up.

1036
01:16:02,476 --> 01:16:03,776
I know you got stuff to get to.

1037
01:16:04,416 --> 01:16:05,556
Busy New York City.

1038
01:16:05,676 --> 01:16:06,456
New York guy.

1039
01:16:06,536 --> 01:16:08,836
You probably had 20,000 steps right now.

1040
01:16:09,036 --> 01:16:09,476
Almost.

1041
01:16:10,136 --> 01:16:10,856
I have been,

1042
01:16:10,916 --> 01:16:12,156
I have been out there a lot.

1043
01:16:12,716 --> 01:16:13,716
Hitting that pavement today.

1044
01:16:14,436 --> 01:16:14,696
Yeah.

1045
01:16:14,836 --> 01:16:15,156
Well,

1046
01:16:15,696 --> 01:16:17,456
I appreciate your vegan hot dogs,

1047
01:16:17,716 --> 01:16:19,196
20,000 steps.

1048
01:16:19,796 --> 01:16:20,236
So,

1049
01:16:20,636 --> 01:16:20,856
and,

1050
01:16:20,916 --> 01:16:21,116
uh,

1051
01:16:21,116 --> 01:16:21,556
the next,

1052
01:16:21,556 --> 01:16:22,496
the next meal we have,

1053
01:16:22,576 --> 01:16:25,196
it's going to be so different because you're just going to be looking at me

1054
01:16:25,196 --> 01:16:27,276
such suspense of what I'm going to order.

1055
01:16:27,576 --> 01:16:28,416
What's this guy going to get?

1056
01:16:28,416 --> 01:16:30,816
Is it going to get a grilled cheese sandwich or a bean and cheese burrito?

1057
01:16:31,096 --> 01:16:31,516
Or no,

1058
01:16:31,616 --> 01:16:32,616
I already knew you were,

1059
01:16:32,736 --> 01:16:33,016
uh,

1060
01:16:33,076 --> 01:16:33,616
yeah,

1061
01:16:33,796 --> 01:16:34,216
you were,

1062
01:16:34,356 --> 01:16:34,976
you were a freak,

1063
01:16:34,976 --> 01:16:37,916
We have truly had like five or six meals together.

1064
01:16:39,636 --> 01:16:40,756
Yeah, yeah.

1065
01:16:40,916 --> 01:16:44,276
I'm going like poutine and you got like two eggs.

1066
01:16:44,516 --> 01:16:45,096
Well, that's the thing.

1067
01:16:45,176 --> 01:16:49,296
Some people who are vegan or whatever like to be very preachy about it.

1068
01:16:49,336 --> 01:16:52,016
I think it's kind of stupid and boring to talk about.

1069
01:16:52,116 --> 01:16:54,576
So that's why I usually don't.

1070
01:16:56,576 --> 01:16:58,516
Because I don't care what anybody else does.

1071
01:17:00,376 --> 01:17:02,916
I love the sound of New York City in the background.

1072
01:17:02,916 --> 01:17:03,596
I do too.

1073
01:17:03,696 --> 01:17:04,676
I wonder what's going on out there.

1074
01:17:04,976 --> 01:17:06,976
What isn't going on?

1075
01:17:07,176 --> 01:17:08,716
That's the bigger question.

1076
01:17:09,416 --> 01:17:10,076
Well, thanks, buddy.

1077
01:17:10,616 --> 01:17:12,016
We'll wrap it up here.

1078
01:17:12,956 --> 01:17:15,896
And thank you, everyone, for tuning in to Pleb Chain Radio.

1079
01:17:16,456 --> 01:17:22,376
If you appreciate us as much as we appreciate you, listen on Fountain App and consider hitting the subscribe button.

1080
01:17:22,876 --> 01:17:24,456
Until next week, goodbye.