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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses on the intersection of Nostra and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers, doers and plebs.

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All right, we are live. Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the lightning-laced airwaves.

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Today is Friday, the 28th of November, and it is 10.02 a.m. on the east coast of the United States at the time of recording.

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This is episode 139 of Plep Chain Radio, and we have a fun one in store for you.

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For you today, our guest is Cypher, artist, playwright, and caretaker of the Cypher Monk House in London.

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Looking forward to a fun conversation about Bitcoin, culture, and the arts.

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And a reminder, folks, if you are listening to this show on Apple or Spotify, first of all, thank you for listening.

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but I would urge you to hit pause and switch over to the Fountain Podcasting app

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where you can earn some sats and support the Value for Value revolution while you listen.

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And while you're there, if you hit that subscribe button,

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you will get access to bonus episodes.

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Your support helps keep the show ad-free and our mics warm.

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This show is streamed live on zap.stream and any other Nosteclient that supports streaming such as Amethyst, Nostur, Fountain and Primal.

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July 18, the sequel to my first novel, 24, is now available for purchase.

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it's not a book about bitcoin it's a surrealist literary and philosophical epic about the world

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it makes possible this is the most important and meaningful work i have ever created and i do hope

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you check it out the link is available in the show notes and folks if you are listening to this

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either on the live stream or on the weekend

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and you happen to be in New York,

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then do stop by PubKey on Monday, December 1st

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for a conversation about Bitcoin and the arts.

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Daniel Prince will be there, as will several others.

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I plan to attend. It should be a good one.

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The Nos Fabrica Waterthon is underway

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with the second group call completed earlier this week.

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And we've had some excellent discussions so far.

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We're inviting builders from all walks of NOSTA and Bitcoin

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to participate and build out the open source web of trust substrate for NOSTA.

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The prize pool is 50 million sats or 50 million Bitcoins,

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as the kids these days like to say.

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This is the largest Bitcoin price pool that I'm aware of in recent memory.

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You can find out more at nosfabrica.com slash whatathon.

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W-O-T-A-T-H-O-N.

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And for our sermon today, it is a respite for the weary.

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I want to talk about buildings, actual walls, floors, leaky espresso machines, and wobbly tables.

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In a world that keeps floating off into the cloud, I want to plant a flag in the very old idea that human beings need places,

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and Bitcoiners especially need sanctuaries.

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call them embassies little pockets of a parallel standard you walk in from the fluorescent glow of

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fiat life where your time is inexorably eroded by quiet desperation and fine print and suddenly

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the room runs on something different prices make sense time feels heavier more sacred more profound

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People look you in the eye instead of over your shoulder at the nearest yield opportunity

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These embassies can be cafes or a little live dive bar in the West Village

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Or a four-storied Victorian building in Bloomsbury

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They can be co-working lofts, tiny galleries above a pizza joint

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What matters is that sats move, art breathes and conversation goes deeper than

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So what's the price today?

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A lightning invoice on a napkin

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A mural of a lone node holding the line

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A poetry night about sovereignty that accidentally turns into a Nostowallet Connect workshop

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Culture does the onboarding while everyone thinks they just went out for a drink

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Adoption often shows up disguised as vibe

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A tired teacher pays in cash, notices someone tap their phone to settle in sats and starts asking questions.

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A local painter hangs work about time theft and shared ledgers, then starts saving part of each sale in Bitcoin.

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And for the fiat weary, these places feel like oxygen.

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You do not have to justify your hardware wallet, your obsession with privacy, your refusal to treat money as a disposable subscription.

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The room understands.

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Paranoia relaxes into prudence.

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Isolation loosens into fellowship and inside jokes about seed phrases.

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So today, we honor the people turning keys into real doors.

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Before any grand vision of Bitcoin citadels, there is a very simple scene.

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A small room, some mismatched chairs, a node humming in the corner,

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and a few pioneers deciding that this little patch of earth will run on different assumptions.

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That is how new worlds begin.

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And we have one such pioneer with us today.

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cypher welcome to pleb chain radio hi avi thank you very much for having me what a lovely introduction

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well i you know i had the pleasure of visiting the cypher monk house for the first time

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last week and i saw what you're building there cypher but uh you know for people who've never

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heard of you or the house who is cypher and what exactly is the cypher monk house

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who is cypher and what is the cypher monk house wow i feel like i've just seen a whole different

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cypher monk house and imagined one in your imagination which is which is so brilliant

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anyway but uh it's it feels so amazing to kind of see the one in your head as i'm sat in in the

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real bricks and mortar that you talked about. But yeah, who is Cypher? Cypher is me, is my

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nymph. And I am basically just a London pleb, born and bred in this city. Quite a rarity

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these days to find other Londoners. But yeah, we are here doing our thing. And I have basically

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been putting a lot of time into Bitcoin, like every other psychopath that cares about it

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for the last few years and trying to focus on the things that I think bring me value,

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which are communities and culture and just holding space for people to come together

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and create and build in the real world.

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And how did the Cipher Monk House come to be?

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What is the history of this place?

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It's about a year, year and a half old, is that correct?

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Yep, it's coming up to two years, so we are eagerly planning and thinking about the possibility of a second year birthday party for the house and for the community and all the people that make this place tick.

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But yeah, it actually came about quite randomly because, I mean, well, where do we choose to start really, Avi, is the interesting thing.

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I mean, I wasn't sure I'd explain this bit, but it feels like it makes sense in my head because really it is the catalyst for Cyphermonk.

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And it actually starts in 2023 when I was in India and I was traveling around India with a friend.

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And he was meant to depart for a week to go on a Vipassana.

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And for some reason or other, he then couldn't go and had to go see some family in another part of India.

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so this spare place on a vipassana opened up and obviously i didn't really know what it was

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but i was encouraged by my friend to do it saying that this will be a good thing

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so for for people who don't know vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation and it's kind of worldwide

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global and it's all essentially you could think of it as the first value for value kind of

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one of the value systems because you don't pay anything for the teaching and the housing and

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the accommodation and the food you get but you donate after the fact depending on whether you

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took some value from it. So I was in a completely remote part of India that I never even thought I

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would be in and I was silent for 10 days and you're obviously not allowed pen and paper, you're not

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allowed books you not allowed your phone you not allowed to speak to anyone and yeah you just have to sit still and think and try and clear everything out and it amazing how much garbage and

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sort of fiat films and nonsense that are kind of floating around in your head in those first few

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days. And I remember, I think it was sort of the fourth day, the fifth day, that I was just sitting

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there and I think I'd cleared out all the fiat garbage and suddenly this this very clear image

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came into my head of the Federal Reserve being blown away by a tornado of dollars

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and it was just like a very kind of clear image that I could kind of see and I could see it 2D on

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paper and then what followed for the next that that sitting I mean it was a sort of you have I

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think the midday one is almost two and a half hours or something and what followed was just

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suddenly like ideas of of imagery around fiat money and and all the things that i'd learned so

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far on my bitcoin journey um and ideas for pieces that came into my head to make kind of physical

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bitcoin art to kind of communicate i guess the problem side of the conversation what is wrong

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with fiat um so yeah i was and obviously then you're there and you can't write anything down

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and you're like, all these ideas, I've got to keep them somehow in my head.

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Anyway, needless to say, eventually I was back in London

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with loads of ideas in my head to make some art.

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I had a lot of other projects on the go at the time.

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I was finishing a film and other sort of just normal life stuff.

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And I think I'd kind of parked that idea in the back of my head,

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like, nah, this is probably not something that I should be doing.

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And then, yeah, space kind of cleared up.

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My other projects ended and I just suddenly felt right,

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I was just going to then commit what turned out to be the next year of my life to kind of finding a space to make art and create these pieces, which in itself was a very kind of educative experience, not only about creative processes, but also more kind of little dark tales about fiat and how it's working and the paper currencies and some of the realities of how kind of different money sort of networks are.

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operating right now in the world. But yeah, that culminated with some pieces which I put together

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and obviously then the big question was, well, where am I going to display these artworks that

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I've created? So yeah, I was sort of approaching galleries, trying to find some space and eventually

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I lighted on this space in Bloomsbury and I spoke to the owners and I said, can I set up

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a pop-up gallery for a week or so.

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And they agreed.

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And that was basically the opening.

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And to be fair, I mean, the concept of Cypher Monk House

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even then wasn't really fully formed.

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It was just I wanted space for art, for Bitcoin culture.

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And when the conversation with the owners kind of continued,

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it kind of became apparent that as long as we were going to

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treat these walls and these floors with respect,

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We'd be able to just keep doing simple meetups, bringing people together under the proviso that obviously as soon as this building is sold in whatever purpose the owners really intend for it, then we have to find a new home.

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So that's a very long-winded journey, Avi, but that's kind of the catalyst personally, and I guess a bit about me and my sort of Bitcoin art recently, which culminated in Cyphermonk.

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And as you said, it's been going now for almost 18, 19 months, and yeah, very, very happy to have it for myself and for all of the people that can use it as a space to learn and to commune.

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that's a fascinating story

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one that I was not aware of

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really the genesis of this can be traced back to

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a Vipassana event

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in some remote hilltop on India

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presumably a hilltop, they tend to be on hilltops

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were you a Bitcoiner at that time

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or did Bitcoin happen to you during that Vipassana session as well

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Yeah, I'd actually found Bitcoin during COVID.

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Obviously, it's popped up on the radar several times.

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I think discussions with my father and my uncle and my cousin

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who were always much more economically minded than I've ever been.

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And it was always just kind of talked about very sort of derogatorily.

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What is this thing?

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And just very much in passing.

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And I think COVID, I think for obviously a lot of the class of 2021,

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It kind of opened up a few uncomfortable truths about the way the world works, for which I think I was already very much in tune with.

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But it provided the space to go down the rabbit hole, to learn, to get my first SATs.

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And yeah, that was that was really the first that my my kind of Bitcoin genesis.

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And I mean, I think, yeah, within about three months, I was sort of regularly on Twitter spaces, just chatting nonsense with some other plebs and trying to trying to get a kind of regular thing going with a few Bitcoiners, just talking online, which I think we did sort of weekly or something or maybe twice a month.

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and then after sort of a year of that

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I just felt I needed the real world

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I needed people

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I couldn't be stuck in a sort of Twitter space

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particularly coming out of lockdown

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and all those horrible COVID kind of realities

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the physical space was just so essential

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so then I sort of started running another Bitcoin meetup

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in London and did that for a little bit

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And then that was then the kind of pre-journey before then I had this lovely trip in India.

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And yeah, then Cypher Monk starts after that.

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So if someone walks into Cypher Monk house on a random Thursday night or a Wednesday night,

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what are they likely to see, hear and smell?

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Well, that's a very poetic question, have you?

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I mean, the first thing is, I guess it depends if the incense is burning. We do have an incense at the door. I think I've very much been inspired by the kind of what I see as sort of the surreality of church and religion that has existed for so many centuries now.

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that obviously Bitcoiners do like to joke about the parallels

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between this being its own almost civilization-birthing religion of sorts.

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And certainly civilizations are sort of founded on economic systems.

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So I do try to lean into that just for the humor and just for the fun,

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but also for the simple fact that sanctuary spaces provide

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kind of people with comfort and calm to talk about the real things.

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So, yeah, you might smell some some incense and you'll you'll probably first see the the haphazard board that we I constructed, I think, on sort of day two of the original art gallery.

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Just two bits of plywood that I stuck together and created a notice board.

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So that that marks the marks the house, the Cypher Monk house.

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We've currently got a very nice inflation poster by Raya, who is one of the artists who was working with the Art of Freedom gang when they released seven open source posters, which I think are still available online.

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They're all really lovely, lovely posters.

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That's from the Rebel Money and Flo's art gang, which is very nice.

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We've got one of those posters on the door.

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And then you will see stickers.

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You will see a staircase leading up to a strange plinth that might have a head with a rabbit hat on or some cypher bunk glasses, depending.

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And you'll be pulled into the first main sort of welcoming room where we have our bar for sats.

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And we have art on the walls, which is constantly changing, constantly evolving.

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We've literally got some brand new art in the house.

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I think two days ago, an artist reached out to me from London and said, I've got some fresh art.

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Can I please bring it to the house and put it up? I said, absolutely.

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So it's a kind of constantly evolving space, which I think mimics what Bitcoin is in itself, is a constantly evolving phenomena.

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And I think all art movements in themselves and spaces like this, that freshness that we all feel when things are changing, it's the kind of counter to a kind of static fiat kind of frozenness.

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so yeah it's it's a fresh space and depending who's around that day you might meet some

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extremely toxic psych bats or you just might meet some some some strange fellows who've just walked

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in as you said randomly off the street and and that is that is really the beauty of of having

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the real world space is is knowing that we can just have the door open and it doesn't just have

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to be a space for the hardcore. It can just be a place for punters, tourists walking through the

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lovely streets of Bloomsbury to just stroll in. And, you know, I think if you've got that

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curiosity to cross a threshold into a space that seems bizarre on the outside, and it really does

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seem bizarre on the outside because it's a sort of former legal offices. So there's sort of all

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sorts of chartered accounting kind of plaques on the wall. And then there are the strange logos of

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the cypher monk house and there's a sort of hanging disco ball in the window so it pulls a lot of

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people to just stop and just gawk at like what on earth is this building um and obviously for the brave ones that that cross the threshold they uh they find out um that it a lot more lot more than a strange symbol in the disco ball Speaking of random characters from the street and crossing the threshold

203
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one of the evenings I was there, and you weren't there, Saifer, your other,

204
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and I don't think he wants to be named, so I'll just call him the other caretaker,

205
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who happened to be there, and I showed up with a couple of folks.

206
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actually Roger 9000.

207
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And there were already a few people there.

208
00:21:19,292 --> 00:21:23,172
This must have been about 7 or 6 or 7 p.m. in the evening.

209
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And there was a random guy who just walked in.

210
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I don't know how.

211
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And he was a gold guy.

212
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They were deep in conversation.

213
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And I think there was one point where the gold guy,

214
00:21:37,752 --> 00:21:40,552
he said, yeah, look, I think you Bitcoin guys get it.

215
00:21:40,572 --> 00:21:42,452
So I'm not trying to sell this to you.

216
00:21:42,452 --> 00:21:47,472
But he was basically looking for ways in which he could sell his gold.

217
00:21:47,892 --> 00:21:55,692
He wants to do something with gold, I guess, create digital certificates or something and get more people into his gold business.

218
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I have no idea how he'd randomly stumbled into the Cyphermunk house.

219
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And we were having a great time, great conversation with him.

220
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And it just struck me that if that is the sort of thing, it seemed like the sort of thing that happens on a fairly regular basis.

221
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right people just walking in and then getting stuck into these long conversations I mean it's

222
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it's you know and it's something that we the the challenge for us is just to make sure that we have

223
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we have people on the ground all the time so actually we can have the door open and obviously

224
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there's something about you know if it's just one person in the building it can be a bit tricky but

225
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certainly if you've got a couple of people in the building it means we can open the door and as you

226
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said it's you know all the time there's just the curious conversations of you know people who are

227
00:22:40,712 --> 00:22:44,372
might be completely alien to Bitcoin, might have a semi-interest.

228
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I mean, and you realise that actually by having an open door,

229
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you just learn about your locale.

230
00:22:51,492 --> 00:22:52,512
You learn about the community.

231
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You learn about the people that are living and working and breathing

232
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in the very kind of streets around you.

233
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And the thing that seems so clear to me is that, you know,

234
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everyone in some way is an artist.

235
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Everyone has some kind of creative bent.

236
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Everyone wants to make music, you know, paint, sing, dance.

237
00:23:10,552 --> 00:23:14,952
whatever everyone has something like that so as a kind of space where that's the kind of

238
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front perhaps oh it's it's a cultural space you know it's a really kind of accessible entry point

239
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for for anyone to come in and it's i mean it's just amazing to think of of the crazy kind of

240
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artists and musicians that i've met just just from having the door open who who are are not

241
00:23:32,112 --> 00:23:37,252
bitcoiners in any way but certainly having found the space and having found a sanctuary where they

242
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and kind of, you know, think creatively, talk creatively and be creative.

243
00:23:43,792 --> 00:23:48,092
It just makes it such an easy journey for them to then start learning about Bitcoin

244
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and come down the rabbit hole with us.

245
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And, you know, just for folks who are listening who haven't been to the Cypher Monk House,

246
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I just wanted to describe it compared to some of the other physical outposts,

247
00:24:01,632 --> 00:24:04,332
these physical Bitcoin embassies that are out there.

248
00:24:04,332 --> 00:24:11,952
I've been to PubKey, been to Bitcoin Park, been to a few others in Europe, in Eastern Europe and so on.

249
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Palo Laini Polis as well.

250
00:24:14,172 --> 00:24:15,152
It's no longer there.

251
00:24:15,412 --> 00:24:27,092
But I would say that, to me, Cypher Monk House was one of the most impressive, if not the most impressive physical embassy that I've been to.

252
00:24:27,092 --> 00:24:33,972
And it's this, what is it, 400, 500-year-old building?

253
00:24:34,452 --> 00:24:34,832
Possibly.

254
00:24:36,052 --> 00:24:40,392
Right? It's four-story, what in the U.S. would be called a brownstone.

255
00:24:41,832 --> 00:24:44,172
Very impressive Victorian-era building.

256
00:24:45,432 --> 00:24:48,732
And I know you said there were chartered accountants' offices and so on,

257
00:24:48,792 --> 00:24:51,532
but once upon a time, I think it was someone's home.

258
00:24:51,532 --> 00:24:56,472
and you can almost feel that phantom presence of that family

259
00:24:56,472 --> 00:24:58,372
that lived there once upon a time,

260
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especially if you go up to the higher floors.

261
00:25:01,492 --> 00:25:04,052
You can hear the pitter-patter of,

262
00:25:04,712 --> 00:25:07,732
the echoes of footsteps of children

263
00:25:07,732 --> 00:25:09,652
who once ran through the hallways.

264
00:25:10,172 --> 00:25:13,172
There's a real personality to the house.

265
00:25:16,992 --> 00:25:21,512
But Saifah, you're a playwright as well, correct?

266
00:25:22,312 --> 00:25:23,052
Yes, sorry.

267
00:25:23,312 --> 00:25:25,812
Sorry, I think my internet just dropped out.

268
00:25:26,012 --> 00:25:30,252
So probably other people in the house using all the bandwidth,

269
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but that's what we're meant to be doing in here.

270
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So no, I was just going to finish.

271
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I lost you a little bit when you were talking about the house

272
00:25:37,532 --> 00:25:40,592
and the phantom family that probably lived here.

273
00:25:42,012 --> 00:25:45,472
And I think there's a good reference point is that actually down the street

274
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from Cyphermunk House is the Charles Dickens Museum,

275
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which was his former home.

276
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so when you think about you know if you can imagine perhaps where Charles Dickens might

277
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have lived in a kind of old British you know as you said four-story sort of brick house

278
00:26:00,972 --> 00:26:06,712
I mean it's it's exactly that and that that museum in its own right is is fascinating and

279
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there's a lovely little bit on the very top floor where it's got a tiny little little kind of

280
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display box showing some of the coins that Charles Dickens when he was a 12 year old earned

281
00:26:16,952 --> 00:26:41,292
And I mean, these are the kind of, and this is my kind of numismatic geekery, having read books like Good Money and the kind of history of coinage in the UK is kind of learning about those origins of the first private monies in Britain and why they came about for reasons because the king didn't want his face on metals as low as copper and things like that.

282
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So it was down to private industry during the Industrial Revolution to kind of come up with ways to provide coinage so that they could pay their plebs for the work.

283
00:26:53,032 --> 00:27:01,112
And really without private innovation in money, we possibly wouldn't have had the kind of the progress of the Industrial Revolution.

284
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But, you know, obviously private money was essentially stamped out very swiftly after that.

285
00:27:06,072 --> 00:27:15,912
But it's just it was sort of funny that in all these places, all these stories, Dickens, you know, you can always see the kind of the underlying thread of what was going on with the money.

286
00:27:16,092 --> 00:27:18,912
And what does that little story about money tell us?

287
00:27:22,252 --> 00:27:22,772
Yeah.

288
00:27:24,772 --> 00:27:28,092
No, it's a fascinating place.

289
00:27:28,092 --> 00:27:33,532
And I would love to know the true history of the building.

290
00:27:33,532 --> 00:27:37,012
who the original owners were

291
00:27:37,012 --> 00:27:39,412
and when it was built

292
00:27:39,412 --> 00:27:41,052
and the family and so on.

293
00:27:41,572 --> 00:27:42,912
Perhaps lost to time.

294
00:27:43,452 --> 00:27:44,352
Yes, possibly.

295
00:27:45,192 --> 00:27:47,012
There's a lovely photo of the pub.

296
00:27:47,612 --> 00:27:48,692
We're right next to a pub

297
00:27:48,692 --> 00:27:50,072
which is obviously convenient as well.

298
00:27:50,972 --> 00:27:52,872
But there's some lovely photos of that

299
00:27:52,872 --> 00:27:56,212
at least from the late 18th century

300
00:27:56,212 --> 00:27:56,552
I think.

301
00:27:57,192 --> 00:27:58,412
And yeah, the house stands.

302
00:27:59,252 --> 00:28:01,012
But yeah, I'd really need to

303
00:28:01,012 --> 00:28:03,392
probably go into some old archives

304
00:28:03,392 --> 00:28:06,032
to get the real history of the building.

305
00:28:08,872 --> 00:28:13,732
So, Saifu, you're an artist, but you're also a playwright.

306
00:28:14,832 --> 00:28:19,572
Maybe we'll start with the art itself before we get to,

307
00:28:19,752 --> 00:28:23,052
I mean the physical art itself, before we get to the performance art.

308
00:28:24,172 --> 00:28:28,332
How does Bitcoin show up in that art?

309
00:28:28,932 --> 00:28:33,252
Presumably it's beyond the stylized Bitcoin logos, right?

310
00:28:33,252 --> 00:28:37,492
There's some thematic Bitcoin interplay there.

311
00:28:38,932 --> 00:28:39,592
Yeah, yeah.

312
00:28:39,692 --> 00:28:44,592
I mean, I think I definitely started with a real clear idea

313
00:28:44,592 --> 00:28:47,632
that all of the work was going to use fiat.

314
00:28:48,372 --> 00:28:53,692
And then that kind of informed the medium of just using paper,

315
00:28:53,692 --> 00:28:57,072
just using paper, a kind of form of like assemblage

316
00:28:57,072 --> 00:29:00,832
or to kind of just kind of tell stories

317
00:29:00,832 --> 00:29:03,712
about all the kind of different stories that I'd sort of absorbed.

318
00:29:03,932 --> 00:29:06,492
You know, obviously Alex Gladstein's written so much

319
00:29:06,492 --> 00:29:10,472
about the kind of all these negative externalities of fear

320
00:29:10,472 --> 00:29:11,692
in different parts of the world

321
00:29:11,692 --> 00:29:14,952
and just trying to kind of capture some of those stories

322
00:29:14,952 --> 00:29:20,452
and express it kind of symbolically by, I don't know,

323
00:29:21,392 --> 00:29:24,592
making the American flag out of all of the currencies

324
00:29:24,592 --> 00:29:27,012
that America has invaded post 9-11.

325
00:29:27,012 --> 00:29:31,072
and yeah so it was very much

326
00:29:31,072 --> 00:29:33,472
trying to target the negatives

327
00:29:33,472 --> 00:29:36,192
but I think kind of towards the end

328
00:29:36,192 --> 00:29:37,672
of my process

329
00:29:37,672 --> 00:29:40,852
you know sort of crunch time

330
00:29:40,852 --> 00:29:42,192
I've got to try and get this show up

331
00:29:42,192 --> 00:29:44,352
but then I think it kind of expanded

332
00:29:44,352 --> 00:29:45,852
it opened up even more doors in my head

333
00:29:45,852 --> 00:29:47,572
and then a few kind of much more

334
00:29:47,572 --> 00:29:49,672
Bitcoin focused pieces came out

335
00:29:49,672 --> 00:29:52,692
but still kind of playing with the money

336
00:29:52,692 --> 00:29:55,172
because I hadn't planned

337
00:29:55,172 --> 00:29:56,792
to kind of destroy any money

338
00:29:56,792 --> 00:30:18,052
I thought I would kind of leave everything intact. But I think when you've just been kind of seeing when you know, when you just start to think this, this thing is so corrupt, you kind of eventually just want to destroy it. So I think some of the later pieces, I think, kind of did communicate. Yeah, you know, why, why really Bitcoin is a better alternative.

339
00:30:18,052 --> 00:30:30,092
But yeah, I mean, for me, it wasn't really fine arts, 2D art, however we call it, was really not really in my in my kind of skill set, really.

340
00:30:30,172 --> 00:30:34,292
I mean, it's something I've done at school in art, art classes and things, but it was never really.

341
00:30:34,672 --> 00:30:41,232
I've always been much more focused on kind of performing arts, telling stories, writing.

342
00:30:41,232 --> 00:30:45,712
but it was nice personally just to kind of test myself

343
00:30:45,712 --> 00:30:50,212
in an artistic medium that, yeah, I'd never sort of put myself forward

344
00:30:50,212 --> 00:30:53,812
to kind of make an art show but I'm really glad I did

345
00:30:53,812 --> 00:30:57,372
and like I said, doing anything new and for the first time

346
00:30:57,372 --> 00:31:01,172
is always going to give anyone a lot of growth

347
00:31:01,172 --> 00:31:02,432
so it was really good.

348
00:31:04,292 --> 00:31:06,992
And then let's talk about the plays themselves.

349
00:31:06,992 --> 00:31:22,938
So were you a playwright or into the performing arts before you became a backcoiner Yeah yeah yeah I was very much working at the bottom of the food chain in the performing arts world Avi as an actor for a while

350
00:31:23,498 --> 00:31:26,818
getting paid to do really naff commercials,

351
00:31:27,498 --> 00:31:29,818
shill-like nonsense delivery companies.

352
00:31:30,498 --> 00:31:33,038
But yeah, occasionally getting those chances

353
00:31:33,038 --> 00:31:34,918
to do something that had a bit of substance.

354
00:31:34,918 --> 00:31:42,438
so yeah I mean obviously most people know London is very much a sort of culturally rich

355
00:31:42,438 --> 00:31:49,998
city capital obviously theatre and arts is a big thing so yeah I mean I've kind of been brought up

356
00:31:49,998 --> 00:31:56,458
on it I was very lucky to have a very kind of influential drama teacher when I was at school

357
00:31:56,458 --> 00:32:01,318
and I think it was just yeah I mean you leave school and you think you have to do the kind

358
00:32:01,318 --> 00:32:06,538
of normal things and do a proper degree which is what I did um but then you know when things when

359
00:32:06,538 --> 00:32:09,958
you sort of start to realize there's this you should really kind of focus on the things that

360
00:32:09,958 --> 00:32:14,578
you you really enjoy um and you realize yeah there are always there are ways to make money doing

361
00:32:14,578 --> 00:32:20,338
doing things that you love um I kind of started to pivot back into into the creative creative space

362
00:32:20,338 --> 00:32:28,458
working in film working in theater writing um yeah had a few kind of short short plays um put on in

363
00:32:28,458 --> 00:32:34,678
different theatres in London um done lots of acting around London um but yeah I guess everything

364
00:32:34,678 --> 00:32:40,158
kind of was just culminating in realising eventually like I'm I'm at the behest of an

365
00:32:40,158 --> 00:32:46,958
agent telling me what to do whenever whenever you know make a self-tape tomorrow in three hours and

366
00:32:46,958 --> 00:32:51,898
send it to me and it's for a like ketchup commercial or something you know things that I don't believe

367
00:32:51,898 --> 00:32:57,098
in and don't value um and it's quite a you know it's very you're very much exploited when you're

368
00:32:57,098 --> 00:33:01,518
at the bottom of the food chain as an actor so uh that was pretty bruce and then when you realize

369
00:33:01,518 --> 00:33:05,898
well actually it'll even if you do make it you're just going to be in some some netflix thing which

370
00:33:05,898 --> 00:33:12,338
probably is just parroting the kind of same narratives of of the mainstream kind of thinking

371
00:33:12,338 --> 00:33:17,158
which which doesn't really progress any of us that further forward in my mind i mean there's a lot of

372
00:33:17,158 --> 00:33:22,978
great a lot of great work out there um and yeah it's you know it's nice to it's all part of

373
00:33:22,978 --> 00:33:27,538
pool part of our culture but you know at the end of the day a lot of it is just a bit

374
00:33:27,538 --> 00:33:34,718
naff so um i think i just kind of tying that into kind of when bitcoin appeared in my radar

375
00:33:34,718 --> 00:33:40,578
it just felt like a very easy moment to just kind of what i thought was kind of saying goodbye to

376
00:33:40,578 --> 00:33:44,438
all kind of performance and create and that kind of side of my creativity and just yeah spend

377
00:33:44,438 --> 00:33:49,438
spend a few years learning about something that seemed much more important for for all of us

378
00:33:49,438 --> 00:33:55,158
but then yeah it's been it's been nice having having a space to then start thinking and trying

379
00:33:55,158 --> 00:33:59,758
to trying to get back into that world because yeah at the end of the day we're kind of

380
00:33:59,758 --> 00:34:04,158
we're narrative beings we like to understand the world through stories I certainly do

381
00:34:04,158 --> 00:34:10,818
and I like to yeah I like to be able to kind of yeah transmit ideas in that way because I think

382
00:34:10,818 --> 00:34:16,518
it comes across much much easier than than sometimes facts and figures do but actually

383
00:34:16,518 --> 00:34:20,419
and interesting just just to touch back to the vipassana i kind of mentioned like that that was a

384
00:34:20,419 --> 00:34:26,538
very kind of um kind of scary like not scary but it was just a thing that i was very conscious of

385
00:34:26,538 --> 00:34:33,258
in those first few days like how much my mind just kept drifting to like films that i'd seen and like

386
00:34:33,258 --> 00:34:38,638
not even good films but just like you know scenes and jokes and lines and things and i was just very

387
00:34:38,638 --> 00:34:44,358
aware like these aren't my memories like this isn't my life this is someone else's kind of

388
00:34:44,358 --> 00:34:48,298
some narrative that they've somehow wormed into my head.

389
00:34:49,018 --> 00:34:52,978
And I mean, I think if you're leaving good messages

390
00:34:52,978 --> 00:34:55,198
and good stories in people's heads, that's a good thing.

391
00:34:55,278 --> 00:34:56,898
But I think a lot of, I mean, certainly the stuff

392
00:34:56,898 --> 00:34:59,058
that was coming into my head was just, you know,

393
00:34:59,058 --> 00:35:03,258
sort of the lowest kind of silly film entertainment.

394
00:35:03,518 --> 00:35:06,178
So, I mean, I actually took like a, what I would call

395
00:35:06,178 --> 00:35:08,998
a two-year film fast after that.

396
00:35:09,178 --> 00:35:11,959
And I actually just abstained from watching anything

397
00:35:11,959 --> 00:35:21,638
because I was kind of aware of the power of what moving visual narrative media can do to all of us

398
00:35:21,638 --> 00:35:26,939
and how easy it is to kind of implant messages and stories into people's heads.

399
00:35:27,118 --> 00:35:31,419
And so, you know, as the great Spider-Man saying, with great power comes great responsibility.

400
00:35:31,419 --> 00:35:36,898
So for all content film creators, it's like we've really got to kind of raise our game

401
00:35:36,898 --> 00:35:40,038
so that we can kind of compete with the Hollywood machine

402
00:35:40,038 --> 00:35:43,258
to try and get really good independent stories about Bitcoin,

403
00:35:43,838 --> 00:35:46,178
about, you know, peer-to-peer economies

404
00:35:46,178 --> 00:35:48,138
and this decentralized world we're building.

405
00:35:48,459 --> 00:35:50,378
We've got to work really hard to create that.

406
00:35:51,818 --> 00:35:55,898
So, yeah, I mean, you know this as well as I do, Avi.

407
00:35:56,038 --> 00:35:58,538
So, I mean, from one storyteller to another,

408
00:35:58,698 --> 00:36:00,298
it's amazing that you do this as well

409
00:36:00,298 --> 00:36:04,058
because I think it's like one of the real kind of superpowers

410
00:36:04,058 --> 00:36:07,298
that we can help kind of bring Bitcoin into life.

411
00:36:08,798 --> 00:36:09,138
Oh, yeah.

412
00:36:09,258 --> 00:36:13,338
I mean, if you take a leaf out of any major religion, right,

413
00:36:13,538 --> 00:36:15,378
God reveals himself through stories.

414
00:36:16,258 --> 00:36:19,118
And I think storytelling is one of the most powerful tools.

415
00:36:19,898 --> 00:36:24,198
You were telling me, Cypher, about a play that you'd staged

416
00:36:24,198 --> 00:36:29,998
at the Cypher Monk house and something about a seed phrase, perhaps.

417
00:36:30,258 --> 00:36:31,238
You want to talk about that?

418
00:36:31,238 --> 00:36:46,018
Yes, my first little Bitcoin play, which had a hidden seed phrase in it, and is obviously what I thought was extremely easy to crack.

419
00:36:46,698 --> 00:36:48,818
It's actually not so easy to crack, apparently.

420
00:36:49,778 --> 00:36:58,439
So yeah, I think it was a couple of months before what turned out to be one year of CypherMonk.

421
00:36:58,439 --> 00:37:02,718
someone someone asked me you know what a how long have you been doing this and I and I totted it up

422
00:37:02,718 --> 00:37:07,578
and I realized gosh it's it's like 10 months now maybe and it made me very aware of like all right

423
00:37:07,578 --> 00:37:13,378
well we're going to be we're going to be one year in um and it kind of made me immediately think that

424
00:37:13,378 --> 00:37:20,878
having having created something myself to open the house um and then spent a really solid year

425
00:37:20,878 --> 00:37:25,118
working with loads of people to kind of bring more culture bring more events bring more education

426
00:37:25,118 --> 00:37:27,118
into the house and grow the community.

427
00:37:27,778 --> 00:37:30,078
Yeah, it was the realisation that I wanted to make something

428
00:37:30,078 --> 00:37:34,138
for the one-year birthday party and to make something new

429
00:37:34,138 --> 00:37:37,758
and to get back to the creative roots of performance

430
00:37:37,758 --> 00:37:41,318
and players and mask work as well.

431
00:37:41,439 --> 00:37:44,098
I mean, that kind of the tradition of Greek theatre and masks

432
00:37:44,098 --> 00:37:48,439
and obviously such a clear parallel to kind of the Bitcoin space

433
00:37:48,439 --> 00:37:49,278
and anonymity.

434
00:37:49,439 --> 00:37:52,758
And I mean, we've kind of always had it as a kind of norm

435
00:37:52,758 --> 00:37:57,198
and a practice to make sure we have lots of masks in the house just just for the banter just for the

436
00:37:57,198 --> 00:38:02,258
fun but also yeah because it's we want to you know you want to take photos and get some content in

437
00:38:02,258 --> 00:38:07,358
the house makes sense to kind of spread the message but uh we want to enable people to to

438
00:38:07,358 --> 00:38:13,638
keep anonymity and privacy whenever they want so um yeah the mask work thing of the play just became

439
00:38:13,638 --> 00:38:21,118
part of something that you know can i tell a story with a few players um in a very short period of

440
00:38:21,118 --> 00:38:28,098
time. I mean, I think I had about a month just kind of pulling ideas together. And yeah, I mean,

441
00:38:28,198 --> 00:38:34,538
the framework of it was the Promethean myth, which several Bitcoiners have written very

442
00:38:34,538 --> 00:38:41,218
intriguing articles about the parallels between stealing fire from the gods and kind of stealing

443
00:38:41,218 --> 00:38:47,858
back our monetary independence from central banks. It felt like a very kind of, you know,

444
00:38:47,858 --> 00:38:50,698
it felt like the right story to start with.

445
00:38:51,959 --> 00:38:54,678
And so, yeah, I did a lot of homework on Prometheus

446
00:38:54,678 --> 00:38:59,618
and, yeah, just got dug back into my old networks,

447
00:39:00,058 --> 00:39:01,358
got some auditions together,

448
00:39:01,939 --> 00:39:04,558
found three fantastic players,

449
00:39:05,138 --> 00:39:06,919
none of whom were Bitcoiners,

450
00:39:07,098 --> 00:39:09,638
none of whom, and, yeah, I'll say,

451
00:39:09,758 --> 00:39:12,758
I mean, literally, we did a public call advertising

452
00:39:12,758 --> 00:39:15,678
on one of the platforms that kind of the network uses

453
00:39:15,678 --> 00:39:17,698
and I kept the whole Bitcoin thing

454
00:39:17,698 --> 00:39:22,678
secret. So I didn't tell people who were auditioning what this was for. I just said

455
00:39:22,678 --> 00:39:26,038
we're doing a Promethean myth. I didn't say anything about Bitcoin. I didn't say anything

456
00:39:26,038 --> 00:39:33,318
about a hidden seed. And so eventually I found these lovely actors, got them into the house,

457
00:39:33,578 --> 00:39:41,258
and I think we had about 10 days of just chaos ideas, chucking things around. I had a sketch

458
00:39:41,258 --> 00:39:46,439
of a kind of seven structures of scenes and seven pieces of music that I wanted to work

459
00:39:46,439 --> 00:39:53,358
with to kind of build a kind of tale of Prometheus stealing the fire once more. And it was just it

460
00:39:53,358 --> 00:39:57,939
was a really, really rewarding experience, not least because it was working with people that

461
00:39:57,939 --> 00:40:04,298
knew nothing about Bitcoin. And I think it was maybe day two that I told them. So there's some

462
00:40:04,298 --> 00:40:08,358
there's another layer to this this whole story. It's really we're talking about Bitcoin. And

463
00:40:08,358 --> 00:40:14,459
and what do you think about that? Obviously, there were a lot of sort of, you know, blank faces and

464
00:40:14,459 --> 00:40:19,738
like curiosities but it was a really nice experience then over the next few days to kind of talk to

465
00:40:19,738 --> 00:40:24,738
them about kind of the ideas and why I thought this was important and to and to see that they

466
00:40:24,738 --> 00:40:31,558
were sort of understanding that it was important too and then seeing their journey of learning

467
00:40:31,558 --> 00:40:36,798
about something through the medium that is their medium to perform and to create and to devise

468
00:40:36,798 --> 00:40:42,338
and to see them kind of some of these ideas clicking into their minds because they're using

469
00:40:42,338 --> 00:40:48,258
their bodies to kind of uncover them um and then the final reveal was sort of i think a day the day

470
00:40:48,258 --> 00:40:56,578
before we went on i uh and i explained to them that uh i'd also hidden hidden a seed within within

471
00:40:56,578 --> 00:41:03,498
the piece that we had just created together and i think that was a real uh really gawping moment

472
00:41:03,498 --> 00:41:09,459
for them they just i mean it was very much uh you know but once you once you can explain and and you

473
00:41:09,459 --> 00:41:16,378
You know, it's easy to understand that, you know, essentially there's some you could imagine it is sort of invisible cash floating in the air as they're kind of playing around it.

474
00:41:16,378 --> 00:41:31,518
But I think it was the idea that I obviously couldn't tell them that from the start because I needed to keep some kind of level of keeping my actors blind to the code so that I don't know, they didn't somehow work it out and steal it before we got there.

475
00:41:31,518 --> 00:41:33,558
but it was

476
00:41:33,558 --> 00:41:34,498
it was just a

477
00:41:34,498 --> 00:41:34,959
it was a

478
00:41:34,959 --> 00:41:36,198
it was a lovely

479
00:41:36,198 --> 00:41:36,758
experience

480
00:41:36,758 --> 00:41:38,518
and the show

481
00:41:38,518 --> 00:41:39,538
remains uncracked

482
00:41:39,538 --> 00:41:39,919
so we

483
00:41:39,944 --> 00:41:52,464
We did the first edition in the house for the second year birthday, which I think mainly kind of confused people, made some people laugh and smile and have a good time.

484
00:41:52,464 --> 00:41:57,604
But I think people weren't really sure what on earth they just witnessed. But certainly happy faces.

485
00:41:58,524 --> 00:42:04,884
I remember having the time of my life watching my creation come into come into life as most creatives do.

486
00:42:04,884 --> 00:42:10,684
and then I spent the kind of next period

487
00:42:10,684 --> 00:42:14,224
just refreshing it with them a couple of months later

488
00:42:14,224 --> 00:42:15,624
to get it into the Camden Fringe

489
00:42:15,624 --> 00:42:18,244
where we sort of properly added text.

490
00:42:18,544 --> 00:42:20,684
So I mean this whole 12 words,

491
00:42:20,764 --> 00:42:22,764
I mean the whole thing was entirely non-verbal

492
00:42:22,764 --> 00:42:25,564
so it was a kind of physical performance

493
00:42:25,564 --> 00:42:30,244
where you've got 12 words hidden in a piece with no words.

494
00:42:31,704 --> 00:42:33,104
So for most people,

495
00:42:33,104 --> 00:42:37,384
and my i mean it does seem a bit nonsense and i can see now why maybe that's a bit tricky

496
00:42:37,384 --> 00:42:45,164
to kind of crack but in my head it still makes perfect sense abby but um obviously wait 12 words

497
00:42:45,164 --> 00:42:52,704
hidden in a piece with no words what does that mean it means i'm crazy no it means it means uh

498
00:42:52,704 --> 00:42:59,584
it means that i was i was playing with i was playing with all of the ways that a word and a

499
00:42:59,584 --> 00:43:08,504
seed can be represented and obviously the word is just one form of how the the bites and the bits

500
00:43:08,504 --> 00:43:14,724
are kind of represented so i was playing with the other layers of it um and to be fair i mean

501
00:43:14,724 --> 00:43:20,084
i'm not saying there weren't words in the piece and visually maybe words were

502
00:43:20,084 --> 00:43:27,144
displayed um probably there's one word which is displayed in the piece which is probably the

503
00:43:27,144 --> 00:43:34,064
easiest word to identify um so maybe a spoiler alert but um but the rest of them were kind of

504
00:43:34,064 --> 00:43:38,964
more more elaborately kind of encrypted based and and the great thing was it wasn't you know

505
00:43:38,964 --> 00:43:47,844
i i knew how i wanted to find the seed but really you know the actors found the seed for me because

506
00:43:47,844 --> 00:43:55,844
they decided how they were going to do things they decided various kind of dynamics of the show

507
00:43:55,844 --> 00:44:01,924
and that informed the seed that was then produced and locked in.

508
00:44:02,344 --> 00:44:06,344
And yeah, I put some sats into that seed

509
00:44:06,344 --> 00:44:10,684
and gave people a sort of companion puzzle program to try and uncover it.

510
00:44:11,104 --> 00:44:13,504
And yeah, then we did it all again at the Camden Fringe

511
00:44:13,504 --> 00:44:15,664
at a lovely theater called The Cockpit

512
00:44:15,664 --> 00:44:21,764
and had plenty more normal people or regular people

513
00:44:21,764 --> 00:44:23,664
not interested in Bitcoin came along and saw that

514
00:44:23,664 --> 00:44:27,424
and had sort of a lot more various questions to ask,

515
00:44:27,504 --> 00:44:29,524
what on earth is this mad world that we've just been shown?

516
00:44:30,584 --> 00:44:33,664
But yeah, that's really, I feel like that's really,

517
00:44:33,864 --> 00:44:36,624
that's where I take the most value from my current life

518
00:44:36,624 --> 00:44:39,624
is just trying to do the propaganda and have fun along the way

519
00:44:39,624 --> 00:44:41,904
to kind of spread it mainly to our community,

520
00:44:41,904 --> 00:44:45,244
but also find those bridges outside and beyond.

521
00:44:46,784 --> 00:44:48,624
So there were two screenings of it,

522
00:44:48,824 --> 00:44:51,644
one at the Cyphermunk House and one at the Gamblin Fringe?

523
00:44:51,644 --> 00:44:54,084
two kind of iterations

524
00:44:54,084 --> 00:44:55,784
yes we've done three

525
00:44:55,784 --> 00:44:58,084
productions of the original

526
00:44:58,084 --> 00:45:00,404
version in the house which was unscripted

527
00:45:00,404 --> 00:45:01,364
purely physical

528
00:45:01,364 --> 00:45:04,244
across I think a month

529
00:45:04,244 --> 00:45:06,204
so opening on the birthday and then did two

530
00:45:06,204 --> 00:45:07,404
more and

531
00:45:07,404 --> 00:45:10,004
two more in

532
00:45:10,004 --> 00:45:12,404
Camden for the Camden Fringe

533
00:45:12,404 --> 00:45:14,184
and the great thing was I mean obviously

534
00:45:14,184 --> 00:45:16,244
with the nature of a seed

535
00:45:16,244 --> 00:45:17,924
and a prize to be won

536
00:45:17,924 --> 00:45:20,224
the fun thing for me was seeing that

537
00:45:20,224 --> 00:45:24,804
some of my friends in the space, some of the psychopaths of Cyphermonk House,

538
00:45:25,244 --> 00:45:30,044
you know, came to multiple, multiple versions, pen and paper, taking notes,

539
00:45:30,644 --> 00:45:35,724
pulling their hair out that it made no sense, but really kind of enjoying, I hope,

540
00:45:36,084 --> 00:45:39,424
the fact that here was another lens on Bitcoin.

541
00:45:40,184 --> 00:45:44,844
And yeah, here's, I guess, another bridge to kind of bring more people into Bitcoin

542
00:45:44,844 --> 00:45:47,204
who wouldn't necessarily have found it otherwise.

543
00:45:47,204 --> 00:45:57,884
how much uh what is it did you show the actual address uh to folks yes absolutely the address is

544
00:45:57,884 --> 00:46:03,064
is live i think it's currently i mean i i put a million sats in it i thought it was a nice clean

545
00:46:03,064 --> 00:46:08,324
number so a million sats in the prize and that has been i think there have been several donations

546
00:46:08,324 --> 00:46:16,604
to add to that so uh it has it has moved up um yeah but i mean the reality is i don't think it's

547
00:46:16,604 --> 00:46:23,284
going to be cracked yet so uh the question is when do i restage another version of it where i can

548
00:46:23,284 --> 00:46:31,224
expand it further to make it more accessible as a puzzle to solve um and yeah that that was the

549
00:46:31,224 --> 00:46:35,624
kind of in between stage between the first edition and the second edition it was like trying to find

550
00:46:35,624 --> 00:46:40,324
a way to communicate how things have been encrypted but also communicate more about bitcoin and

551
00:46:40,324 --> 00:46:45,944
obviously when you can add text and dialogue you have a lot more a lot more space to kind of talk

552
00:46:45,944 --> 00:46:48,444
about the ideas that people need to understand.

553
00:46:48,724 --> 00:46:51,244
I mean, certainly for people with no interest in Bitcoin,

554
00:46:51,624 --> 00:46:55,204
I'm sure the original physical piece was just that.

555
00:46:55,344 --> 00:46:57,164
It was just an interesting physical piece

556
00:46:57,164 --> 00:46:59,064
with people climbing on tables

557
00:46:59,064 --> 00:47:02,244
and extracting floating light bulbs from the air

558
00:47:02,244 --> 00:47:05,444
and reveling at kind of a sort of marvel

559
00:47:05,444 --> 00:47:08,324
of a new idea coming into being.

560
00:47:09,584 --> 00:47:10,184
Yeah.

561
00:47:10,604 --> 00:47:15,224
You know, cryptography is a form of alchemy in some sense,

562
00:47:15,224 --> 00:47:18,684
And there's so many cool things you could do with it, right?

563
00:47:18,724 --> 00:47:25,504
A Bitcoin private key, yes, you can map it to 12 or 24 words using BIP39,

564
00:47:25,784 --> 00:47:29,924
but you can also map it to all sorts of other things, deterministically even,

565
00:47:30,204 --> 00:47:36,444
which makes this whole thing of hiding Bitcoin in any form of art really interesting.

566
00:47:36,864 --> 00:47:43,204
Did I ever tell you, Cypher, that I hid, you know, sats in 24, right?

567
00:47:43,204 --> 00:47:49,084
The chapter titles, each chapter title was a BIP-39 seed word.

568
00:47:49,184 --> 00:47:51,584
It just so happened that they were in the wrong order.

569
00:47:52,304 --> 00:47:59,124
And then throughout the book, I had clues how to, I guess, unravel that and put them in the right order.

570
00:48:00,324 --> 00:48:03,284
Avi, I'm so annoyed that I didn't get to it sooner.

571
00:48:03,284 --> 00:48:08,564
I mean, I remember when I first was introduced to knowing about you.

572
00:48:08,904 --> 00:48:11,324
And I think it was on Rebel and Flow's podcast.

573
00:48:11,324 --> 00:48:16,084
and I remember listening and hearing about this book and just I was just I remember being in the

574
00:48:16,084 --> 00:48:21,004
house and just kind of stopping and just being captivated to this idea and knowing that because

575
00:48:21,004 --> 00:48:27,744
I think there'd been you know the kind of first trend was was hiding seeds in tangible art in

576
00:48:27,744 --> 00:48:33,404
fine arts and things but then you had kind of you put it in a story and again it just

577
00:48:33,404 --> 00:48:39,024
it opens up the possibility and as you said when when when it is just bits and bites and you can

578
00:48:39,024 --> 00:48:44,764
hide it kind of anywhere it's it's it's also it's kind of like it's not even hidden you don't have

579
00:48:44,764 --> 00:48:49,924
to hide it for it to be there you know everything can kind of be represented as a seed you could find

580
00:48:49,924 --> 00:48:56,524
some kind of pattern within the structure of a leaf and actually that might map to a seed and

581
00:48:56,524 --> 00:48:59,444
who knows maybe there's some sats in it you know what i mean so it kind of means that there's

582
00:48:59,444 --> 00:49:04,684
bitcoin possibly hidden in the entire universe which is it kind of blows my mind a bit and

583
00:49:04,684 --> 00:49:09,504
connects to this this this thing which i've been thinking a lot recently about the importance of

584
00:49:09,504 --> 00:49:14,984
secrets and and the universe being able to keep its secrets and when we are when when the universe

585
00:49:14,984 --> 00:49:20,864
is is no longer a place of secrets um it means kind of we've reached our zenith and there's

586
00:49:20,864 --> 00:49:26,384
nothing more to learn um and it and it maps perfectly to the to the nature of our societies

587
00:49:26,384 --> 00:49:31,624
and the importance of being able to keep secrets and and yeah and that that you know there's free

588
00:49:31,624 --> 00:49:36,584
speech and the sharing of ideas how can it be done if you don't have you know private encrypted

589
00:49:36,584 --> 00:49:42,024
channels and that ties perfectly back to having four walls which was the original you know the

590
00:49:42,024 --> 00:49:47,444
original security for two people trying to have a private conversation that they didn't need anyone

591
00:49:47,444 --> 00:49:53,044
else to hear about but in a digitized world with with every phone a listening device in our pockets

592
00:49:53,044 --> 00:50:00,264
and our laptops and cameras everywhere the four walls of a space that is a sanctuary becomes much

593
00:50:00,264 --> 00:50:06,324
more valuable and important again, particularly for us Bitcoiners, to have the important conversations

594
00:50:06,324 --> 00:50:07,604
that we're all having.

595
00:50:09,244 --> 00:50:09,324
Yeah.

596
00:50:10,084 --> 00:50:15,204
Yeah, which is why what you're doing at Cypher Monk House is so critical.

597
00:50:15,464 --> 00:50:20,564
And there's PubKey in New York, and there's Bitcoin Park in Nashville.

598
00:50:21,584 --> 00:50:23,984
Will you be going to PubKey whilst you're there in New York now, Avi?

599
00:50:24,864 --> 00:50:25,664
I will, yeah.

600
00:50:25,664 --> 00:50:31,004
I think on November 1st, there's an event about Bitcoin and the arts.

601
00:50:31,664 --> 00:50:39,984
In fact, there's a Bitcoin for the arts nonprofit that is in the process of being launched.

602
00:50:40,104 --> 00:50:41,784
And I'm going to be involved in that as well.

603
00:50:41,844 --> 00:50:45,244
So that's going to be one of the things we'll be talking about on Monday.

604
00:50:45,884 --> 00:50:46,744
That's on Monday.

605
00:50:46,844 --> 00:50:47,084
Wow.

606
00:50:48,304 --> 00:50:50,784
God, we just need to invent teleportation now.

607
00:50:51,844 --> 00:50:52,164
I know.

608
00:50:52,164 --> 00:50:52,724
I know.

609
00:50:52,724 --> 00:51:00,324
By the way, speaking of teleportation or being in London, rather,

610
00:51:00,564 --> 00:51:06,764
I was, you know, it was my first trip back to London after almost 20 years.

611
00:51:07,404 --> 00:51:11,584
And in the meantime, I'd been reading the news, as one does, right?

612
00:51:11,584 --> 00:51:18,084
I mean, not voluntarily, but these things tend to seep in about how London's falling apart.

613
00:51:18,084 --> 00:51:26,604
It's, you know, it's crime, this and that and the other, the fabric of society is crumbling.

614
00:51:27,004 --> 00:51:28,624
I found none of that.

615
00:51:29,544 --> 00:51:31,344
London was perfectly fine.

616
00:51:31,524 --> 00:51:35,764
It was a lovely place, as lovely as it was when I was there 20 years ago.

617
00:51:37,444 --> 00:51:38,784
In fact, it was brilliant.

618
00:51:38,784 --> 00:51:48,584
I mean, do you, as someone who lives there, get the sense that things are fraying and are falling apart?

619
00:51:49,164 --> 00:51:50,724
Because I certainly didn't as a visitor.

620
00:51:53,144 --> 00:51:59,684
I mean, yeah, I'm very aware of how London changes.

621
00:51:59,864 --> 00:52:11,151
I mean I been here most of my life And yeah it definitely still a beautiful place And yeah the green spaces we have and yeah the people and the kind of melting pot

622
00:52:11,391 --> 00:52:16,511
It's definitely a long way away from falling apart in any real sense.

623
00:52:17,431 --> 00:52:21,111
But then you can't help but acknowledge that it's a very old city,

624
00:52:21,811 --> 00:52:25,151
infrastructurally, under the roads, you know, the pipes, electrics,

625
00:52:25,251 --> 00:52:29,811
everything is kind of, you know, the first of its kind in a sense for a big city.

626
00:52:29,931 --> 00:52:31,171
The underground network is old.

627
00:52:31,891 --> 00:52:35,331
But I think it just kind of constantly keeps getting new life

628
00:52:35,331 --> 00:52:37,651
because new people keep coming all the time.

629
00:52:39,411 --> 00:52:43,311
But yeah, I mean, I could sort of speak both ways about London, honestly,

630
00:52:43,751 --> 00:52:45,391
and I don't want to be too negative.

631
00:52:45,551 --> 00:52:48,871
But yeah, you know, there are tensions everywhere in the world.

632
00:52:49,591 --> 00:52:54,311
I can share one of my slight kind of fiat old habits,

633
00:52:54,491 --> 00:52:57,631
which still remains strong, is an interest in football.

634
00:52:57,631 --> 00:53:01,351
and going to the football with my dad, which I enjoy.

635
00:53:01,851 --> 00:53:04,731
But, you know, over the last five seasons,

636
00:53:05,071 --> 00:53:08,651
the sort of tension amongst people going to football games

637
00:53:08,651 --> 00:53:11,651
and whether that's fans of opposing sides

638
00:53:11,651 --> 00:53:13,451
or even just fans on the same side,

639
00:53:13,551 --> 00:53:18,011
I mean, there's a lot more pent-up anger and frustration amongst people.

640
00:53:18,011 --> 00:53:19,571
And for me, that's undeniable.

641
00:53:19,731 --> 00:53:21,531
And I feel like that's where it's most obvious to me

642
00:53:21,531 --> 00:53:24,311
is seeing football crowds and the energy that's there.

643
00:53:24,311 --> 00:53:29,391
but yeah generally speaking I think London is a happy place

644
00:53:29,391 --> 00:53:34,431
but I think yeah it's just everyone we just all need to stay on top of

645
00:53:34,431 --> 00:53:37,811
being open to change and things changing

646
00:53:37,811 --> 00:53:41,651
and it's just when it's one of the oldest kind of countries in the world

647
00:53:41,651 --> 00:53:45,151
and its institutions are the most archaic out there

648
00:53:45,151 --> 00:53:51,811
it's the resistance of those entities being comfortable changing

649
00:53:51,811 --> 00:53:55,551
is the challenge, I think, for us in Britain.

650
00:53:55,971 --> 00:53:59,311
But yeah, it doesn't stop me being massively optimistic

651
00:53:59,311 --> 00:54:02,771
about the future and being bullish about Britain

652
00:54:02,771 --> 00:54:07,431
and wanting to see kind of this land prosperous,

653
00:54:07,831 --> 00:54:09,891
as I do for every country.

654
00:54:11,291 --> 00:54:14,351
I guess the thing I do find amusing is online on NOSTA

655
00:54:14,351 --> 00:54:17,171
when I see it always feels like there's people commenting

656
00:54:17,171 --> 00:54:20,891
on people being locked up for posts in Britain,

657
00:54:20,891 --> 00:54:26,751
you know for posting on twitter or i just i find it hilarious i don't know because it it seems so

658
00:54:26,751 --> 00:54:31,711
implausible i mean allegedly this goes on i mean i've seen the odd video of someone being arrested

659
00:54:31,711 --> 00:54:38,711
but i'm like is you know to what extent is it really happening and also i get i guess i'm just

660
00:54:38,711 --> 00:54:43,431
showing my my own kind of opting out nature because i've already you know i i've i've gone

661
00:54:43,431 --> 00:54:49,071
off all my socials deleted i'm noster only so it just seems like it seems so crazy when i when we

662
00:54:49,071 --> 00:54:54,071
user platform where we're not where ids are not linked and we can say whatever we want it just

663
00:54:54,071 --> 00:54:59,191
seems i don't know it seems so funny it seems so sad that actually this is going on but then

664
00:54:59,191 --> 00:55:03,891
i don't know i i it's it's the hype that maybe that gets on lost are people saying our britains

665
00:55:03,891 --> 00:55:09,491
are kind of 1984 so it's all gone wrong i'm like well there's still a lot of freedom here compared

666
00:55:09,491 --> 00:55:14,831
to some other places in the world um and the fact that we can still all meet up quite freely talk

667
00:55:14,831 --> 00:55:19,871
about bitcoin you know and you know that's that's that's the great thing i mean cypher monk is just

668
00:55:19,871 --> 00:55:27,271
one of many awesome groups in london and in britain um and obviously in the world that are

669
00:55:27,271 --> 00:55:32,551
doing these great things creating spaces creating meetups bringing people together um bringing

670
00:55:32,551 --> 00:55:37,051
people that otherwise wouldn't wouldn't be together you know because it's easy to kind of

671
00:55:37,051 --> 00:55:43,871
stay isolated and digital but when when you start to sort of have calendars of kind of events of of

672
00:55:43,871 --> 00:55:50,751
people talking um you know present um you know projects being launched um about the very thing

673
00:55:50,751 --> 00:55:55,471
that that you know is is is the thing for all of us it makes it kind of impossible to kind of stay

674
00:55:55,471 --> 00:56:01,851
on the outside for too long and and seeing that kind of physical network um there's a there's a

675
00:56:01,851 --> 00:56:07,651
great um network the the bitcoin events uk run by a guy called psy um and he's been he's been

676
00:56:07,651 --> 00:56:13,191
doing that for god knows how long just getting all the meetup organizers together in a in a in a

677
00:56:13,191 --> 00:56:18,471
chat, keeping everyone up to date, getting all the dates and then posting out on a newsletter

678
00:56:18,471 --> 00:56:22,731
to everyone so that everyone can share the information about what is going on across

679
00:56:22,731 --> 00:56:28,191
the country so that we can slowly start to make everything orange.

680
00:56:29,431 --> 00:56:36,471
As you were saying that, Sypha, Spaceman in the Zap.stream or in the live stream chat

681
00:56:36,471 --> 00:56:39,111
said, you rock, Sypha.

682
00:56:39,591 --> 00:56:40,731
Just thought I'd let you know that.

683
00:56:43,191 --> 00:56:48,751
the spaceman no idea who that is but i can i can guess maybe it's maybe it's one of one of many

684
00:56:48,751 --> 00:56:57,111
nims of someone who knows but yeah it's uh yeah it's it's nice it's nice to know that we're part

685
00:56:57,111 --> 00:57:02,031
of something bigger than than just us you know it gives you a lot of um gives you a lot of hope

686
00:57:02,031 --> 00:57:07,851
knowing that there are so many people building in the same direction um yeah it's a kind of it's

687
00:57:07,851 --> 00:57:12,711
it's it's the essential community and a kind of yeah this is this is humans have these support

688
00:57:12,711 --> 00:57:18,571
systems to keep us going if we were if we could function as as individuals without need for

689
00:57:18,571 --> 00:57:22,951
community it would be a very different world and we would be a very different living thing but we

690
00:57:22,951 --> 00:57:28,511
are obviously so much stronger when we're when we're when we're together and when we can when

691
00:57:28,511 --> 00:57:34,491
we can build together and share ideas um so it's kind of to see that happening real time like

692
00:57:34,491 --> 00:57:41,331
unbounded by any of the former kind of divisive kind of ideologies of the past religion politics

693
00:57:41,331 --> 00:57:46,791
you know, all of those sort of slightly annoying things in today's world.

694
00:57:47,331 --> 00:57:50,931
And here we are just doing something that just doesn't care about any of that.

695
00:57:51,551 --> 00:57:56,351
And, you know, you just have immediate brotherhood, sisterhood with anyone who is a Bitcoiner.

696
00:57:58,051 --> 00:57:59,811
It's quite remarkable, really.

697
00:58:01,571 --> 00:58:09,771
Yeah, it really is because, you know, I was there in the UK for about a little over a week,

698
00:58:09,771 --> 00:58:11,331
spent three days in London

699
00:58:11,331 --> 00:58:14,531
was at the Cypher Monk house a couple of times

700
00:58:14,531 --> 00:58:16,771
spent four days

701
00:58:16,771 --> 00:58:18,191
in Manchester for Bitfest

702
00:58:18,191 --> 00:58:20,451
and then back in London

703
00:58:20,451 --> 00:58:22,391
for another day when I again stopped by

704
00:58:22,391 --> 00:58:24,491
the Cypher Monk house and the easy

705
00:58:24,491 --> 00:58:26,311
camaraderie with

706
00:58:26,311 --> 00:58:28,331
Bitcoiners, both at

707
00:58:28,331 --> 00:58:29,911
Bitfest, at the Cypher Monk house

708
00:58:29,911 --> 00:58:32,211
easy conversations and so on

709
00:58:32,211 --> 00:58:34,631
and then after that I met some

710
00:58:34,631 --> 00:58:36,491
non-Bitcoiner friends

711
00:58:36,491 --> 00:58:37,371
in

712
00:58:37,371 --> 00:58:39,071
London

713
00:58:39,071 --> 00:58:46,291
was that did you mean you're from from down the road abby that the chap the uh the yes

714
00:58:46,291 --> 00:58:54,251
keynesian friend that's right i think you know he's an old old friend of mine and uh you know

715
00:58:54,251 --> 00:58:58,311
it was a nice conversation but at the same time i was thinking you know this is a guy i've known

716
00:58:58,311 --> 00:59:04,071
since i was nine versus bitcoiners who have you know gotten to know you know anywhere from

717
00:59:04,071 --> 00:59:07,191
five, six years ago to, like in your case,

718
00:59:07,191 --> 00:59:12,731
a week ago, meaning meeting physically for the first time.

719
00:59:12,831 --> 00:59:16,651
I know we've chatted on Nostra before then.

720
00:59:17,591 --> 00:59:19,571
And it's so bizarre.

721
00:59:20,031 --> 00:59:22,911
The easy, like I said, the easy camaraderie,

722
00:59:23,051 --> 00:59:25,791
the friendship, the ease of conversation,

723
00:59:26,291 --> 00:59:28,451
it's so different with Bitcoiners

724
00:59:28,451 --> 00:59:30,531
than it is with non-Bitcoiners.

725
00:59:30,531 --> 00:59:37,871
yeah i think there's a lot of uh just shared understanding from the get-go isn't there

726
00:59:37,871 --> 00:59:42,811
i mean you just you just don't you don't have to kind of deal with any of that that those

727
00:59:42,811 --> 00:59:50,771
irritating differences that seem to i mean i i had a another sort of local person who who actually

728
00:59:50,771 --> 00:59:55,791
works as a i think he's a tax lawyer um next door to seif munkhouse which is which is hilarious

729
00:59:55,791 --> 01:00:01,191
really but he's also a rapper in part time so he is a good he is a good good dude but he was

730
01:00:01,191 --> 01:00:06,371
organizing a kind of big business meetup a couple of days ago at a local restaurant and it was kind

731
01:00:06,371 --> 01:00:10,891
of all small business owners of sorts and some reason or other I was invited as a sort of local

732
01:00:10,891 --> 01:00:16,631
someone and it's just it's just it's just amazing that you know people sort of still seem to think

733
01:00:16,631 --> 01:00:24,051
that that the system is is working as it should be and shouldn't be changed and you know this is

734
01:00:24,051 --> 01:00:30,711
the way to do it and I think my my recent kind of mind epiphany is is kind of trying to place

735
01:00:30,711 --> 01:00:37,031
politics economics and culture in some kind of time continuum of thinking well what what really

736
01:00:37,031 --> 01:00:42,231
has to be established first before something else follows and realizing that you know people always

737
01:00:42,231 --> 01:00:46,931
start with politics today it's always the kind of starting point of like how to make things better

738
01:00:46,931 --> 01:00:52,131
and why are things going wrong let's talk about the politics and it's and and really it's it's

739
01:00:52,131 --> 01:00:56,671
obviously should should have become clearer to me sooner i'm sure but realizing that all first

740
01:00:56,671 --> 01:01:01,150
kind of foundational questions have to start with economics in terms of how is money working

741
01:01:01,150 --> 01:01:07,231
how are we able to transact and and who is privy to transactions and who has power over transactions

742
01:01:07,231 --> 01:01:13,931
um and if we if you can't start you know if you start there then the political questions which

743
01:01:13,931 --> 01:01:18,171
again i even think the political you know after economics then it then it's culture you know

744
01:01:18,171 --> 01:01:25,131
culture comes next and and and in all kind you know all of its guises and stories and faith and

745
01:01:25,131 --> 01:01:30,371
mysticism and all these other layers that of things that humans have been doing for our whole

746
01:01:30,371 --> 01:01:35,551
existence you know these these things can't preclude politics you know so politics is like

747
01:01:35,551 --> 01:01:40,251
the last thing that people need to talk about but it always seems to be the first so i think that's

748
01:01:40,251 --> 01:01:45,011
always you know interesting to when you when you when you do chat to to friends and family you know

749
01:01:45,011 --> 01:01:52,351
Of course, we're all, you know, I don't know many people who kind of are entirely in their friend and family circle or Bitcoiners.

750
01:01:52,411 --> 01:01:53,731
I mean, that is crazy.

751
01:01:53,871 --> 01:01:56,911
And that's great then to think that, well, we've all got our normal friends and family,

752
01:01:56,911 --> 01:02:02,671
but then we've also got this amazing, growing Bitcoin family that is kind of everywhere.

753
01:02:04,111 --> 01:02:13,650
And on that topic, Safer, how does London as a city interact with what you're doing at the Safer Monk House?

754
01:02:13,650 --> 01:02:21,171
Do you feel like you're in a parallel universe, you know, quietly running inside London's universe?

755
01:02:24,251 --> 01:02:36,917
I mean I always very aware of how close we are to the Bank of England That always been very much in my head I mean it like a crow flight It probably less than a mile I mean you can walk to the Bank of England from Cypher Monk House quite easily

756
01:02:38,137 --> 01:02:41,537
So I always think that that's always felt significant to me

757
01:02:41,537 --> 01:02:48,037
because it does seem kind of brainless to be trying to...

758
01:02:48,037 --> 01:02:50,637
Not brainless, but it's obviously an uphill struggle

759
01:02:50,637 --> 01:02:54,777
to be building community in London and to be building with Bitcoin

760
01:02:54,777 --> 01:02:57,677
because, you know, London is going to be the last place,

761
01:02:57,877 --> 01:03:00,137
Britain is going to be the last place to kind of get fully pilled.

762
01:03:01,277 --> 01:03:03,277
So we're really, we're an uphill battle.

763
01:03:03,417 --> 01:03:07,437
But then it's also kind of good to have a beacon standing,

764
01:03:07,837 --> 01:03:09,897
as you've mentioned, without flying a flag,

765
01:03:10,737 --> 01:03:16,037
so close to kind of one of the epicentres of the Fiat system.

766
01:03:17,797 --> 01:03:21,037
That's always felt important to me, and I'm glad that we are close,

767
01:03:21,037 --> 01:03:24,977
even though, yeah, it feels a bit touch and go and a bit edgy at times.

768
01:03:25,137 --> 01:03:30,417
But, yeah, I mean, we're lucky to really not have actually sort of interfaced with, I guess,

769
01:03:30,777 --> 01:03:34,857
that element of London and Britain in a good way.

770
01:03:34,937 --> 01:03:40,357
We are just humbly, calmly doing our thing here, spreading the gospel, spreading education,

771
01:03:40,557 --> 01:03:43,097
spreading culture and just ticking over.

772
01:03:43,217 --> 01:03:49,497
But, I mean, yeah, I do wonder kind of at what point, I mean, one of our first questions

773
01:03:49,497 --> 01:03:55,677
to anyone when they enter the house is, are you a Fed? Which is obviously always well received with

774
01:03:55,677 --> 01:04:02,497
lots of gags and jokes. But it's also, it is generally a kind of great question, because at

775
01:04:02,497 --> 01:04:08,277
some point, we have to think that we do, again, to continue the thread of secrecy and encryption.

776
01:04:08,277 --> 01:04:15,237
It's important that we have private spaces and we can work together. And we know and we trust

777
01:04:15,237 --> 01:04:21,477
people like bitcoin has has kind of solved trust for for money and we don't have to have to deal

778
01:04:21,477 --> 01:04:26,677
with that anymore we can just we have we have blockchain we have bitcoin it's it's sorted but

779
01:04:26,677 --> 01:04:33,917
the kind of human network is still trust right you know so you can't you can't verify every human

780
01:04:33,917 --> 01:04:38,417
you know because that's not how human beings work that's not how that's not how just a healthy

781
01:04:38,417 --> 01:04:43,337
kind of introduction and making friends work like i'm not going to ask for your bank details and your

782
01:04:43,337 --> 01:04:48,397
and your passport and like tell me all of your history and your working history it can't work

783
01:04:48,397 --> 01:04:54,857
like that it has to be based on trust um and i think that's kind of what communities are doing

784
01:04:54,857 --> 01:05:00,217
it's like they're working as kind of groups to kind of just make sure that yeah new people are

785
01:05:00,217 --> 01:05:06,157
allowed to come in and be and and help the thing grow but yeah at the same time we're always kind

786
01:05:06,157 --> 01:05:11,397
of conscious that you know different you know different people might have different ideas but

787
01:05:11,397 --> 01:05:17,097
also different people can very well be bad actors. And there are enough kind of horror

788
01:05:17,097 --> 01:05:22,577
stories in the Bitcoin space that remind us that we have to kind of be safe and keep our

789
01:05:22,577 --> 01:05:28,497
communities safe. And so, yeah, we can have our jokes about being feds. But also, yeah,

790
01:05:28,497 --> 01:05:30,497
it's just good to get reads on people.

791
01:05:31,497 --> 01:05:36,917
So for anyone who's looking to visit London soon and, you know, they're hearing this and

792
01:05:36,917 --> 01:05:40,617
they say, I want to check out the Cyphermunk House. They just show up there.

793
01:05:41,397 --> 01:05:46,937
and they press the doorbell that's it abby you're going to keep that secret

794
01:05:46,937 --> 01:05:54,337
is that right i uh yeah something like that what you said like 123 william street that might be it

795
01:05:54,337 --> 01:06:00,597
something like that i can i can i can take this off though i can cut this out don't worry don't

796
01:06:00,597 --> 01:06:06,777
worry i mean we we have i think uh we sort of make a joke that we're kind of we i think we might

797
01:06:06,777 --> 01:06:11,297
might be the biggest the biggest bitcoin only space in the uk that no one's ever heard about

798
01:06:11,297 --> 01:06:16,297
i mean and that is kind of that is kind of on purpose because we want to keep things kind of

799
01:06:16,297 --> 01:06:22,457
on the down low i mean got it most bitcoiners find us in the right ways they find us through btc maps

800
01:06:22,457 --> 01:06:29,717
they find us through um nostr and they find us through i mean we use eventbrite occasionally to

801
01:06:29,717 --> 01:06:34,877
get them just get new people in and and some other apps but it's it's kind of again it's

802
01:06:34,877 --> 01:06:41,017
finding the space and reaching the space is its own proof of work. Like, we don't need to be

803
01:06:41,017 --> 01:06:44,757
advertising to the whole of London and getting our posters up on billboards and saying, oh,

804
01:06:44,757 --> 01:06:50,757
come and learn about Bitcoin. No, because people need to kind of do those first steps by themselves.

805
01:06:50,917 --> 01:06:54,457
They have to realise this is something I want to learn about. I've understood there's a problem.

806
01:06:54,897 --> 01:07:00,397
I want to go and do my homework. And then they find us. But it's not, it doesn't really,

807
01:07:00,397 --> 01:07:03,477
we don't need to kind of push out so far.

808
01:07:03,717 --> 01:07:06,997
But yes, for plebs, wherever they are in the world,

809
01:07:07,117 --> 01:07:10,937
if they want to come and see this crazy little world in Bloomsbury,

810
01:07:11,097 --> 01:07:13,877
then they just have to go down the rabbit hole in London

811
01:07:13,877 --> 01:07:15,637
and try and find one of our events.

812
01:07:15,737 --> 01:07:21,037
As I said, the best place is Noster, a big, big Noster maxi.

813
01:07:21,697 --> 01:07:24,297
So we're always kind of updating events,

814
01:07:25,157 --> 01:07:27,137
letting people know what's going on there.

815
01:07:27,137 --> 01:07:30,017
we have a website which keeps events updated

816
01:07:30,017 --> 01:07:32,077
but yeah it's a kind of

817
01:07:32,077 --> 01:07:34,037
it's part of the game you know you don't want things

818
01:07:34,037 --> 01:07:35,957
to be too easy you want people to have to put

819
01:07:35,957 --> 01:07:37,897
the proof of work in and then

820
01:07:37,897 --> 01:07:39,817
at the same time that gives us such a kind of

821
01:07:39,817 --> 01:07:41,817
it's always very

822
01:07:41,817 --> 01:07:44,137
joyful when a random person

823
01:07:44,137 --> 01:07:45,877
comes in and you say well how did you find us

824
01:07:45,877 --> 01:07:47,657
oh I saw you on Noster and I've been you know

825
01:07:47,657 --> 01:07:49,937
I found you on B2C maps it's just like

826
01:07:49,937 --> 01:07:52,237
wow again these things that

827
01:07:52,237 --> 01:07:53,917
other amazing plebs

828
01:07:53,917 --> 01:07:55,957
out there have built are working

829
01:07:55,957 --> 01:07:57,857
for the community, bringing people together.

830
01:07:58,097 --> 01:08:03,537
So it keeps me bullish on how unstoppable this whole phenomena is.

831
01:08:04,977 --> 01:08:07,297
So you've talked about NOSTA,

832
01:08:09,297 --> 01:08:13,777
and obviously you host Bitcoin events, you host NOSTA events too.

833
01:08:15,217 --> 01:08:20,337
Do you see a difference in energy between a pure Bitcoin night

834
01:08:20,337 --> 01:08:22,977
and a NOSTA heavy night?

835
01:08:22,977 --> 01:08:33,557
um well we hosted one or two nostonites um sort of 12 months ago or so and then we're lucky to

836
01:08:33,557 --> 01:08:41,337
be working closely always with the 2140 gang um they they have been uh working to build a

837
01:08:41,337 --> 01:08:47,237
nostonite over the last few months um which is going really good going really well and uh yeah

838
01:08:47,237 --> 01:08:52,297
they i wouldn't say this there's too much of a difference at all really i mean it's the same

839
01:08:52,297 --> 01:08:57,857
it's the same crazy psychopaths i mean it's i don't think it i don't think it differs really

840
01:08:57,857 --> 01:09:05,437
too much at all i think um i think the difference maybe occurs when we make things more um introductory

841
01:09:05,437 --> 01:09:10,597
when we run when we run introductory sessions um which really try to target new people and people

842
01:09:10,597 --> 01:09:15,897
who are interested in learning for the first time that's when you and then that's that's just a kind

843
01:09:15,897 --> 01:09:21,757
of um being in a space with people with with kind of that beginner level um that creates a kind of

844
01:09:21,757 --> 01:09:25,697
much different environment because everyone's there, all of the regulars are there trying to

845
01:09:25,697 --> 01:09:29,497
kind of lift them up and help and teach and educate and it's a really kind of sharing environment

846
01:09:29,497 --> 01:09:33,417
whereas the NOSTA and just regular Bitcoin nights, it's just

847
01:09:33,417 --> 01:09:37,277
the mad psychopathic energy of plebs just coming together, communing,

848
01:09:37,617 --> 01:09:41,717
having a beer and trying to kind of, trying to come up with some

849
01:09:41,717 --> 01:09:45,337
new things that we can add to the space. But yeah, we are

850
01:09:45,337 --> 01:09:49,597
running a NOSTA night with the 20 and 40 guys tonight so that's a

851
01:09:49,597 --> 01:09:53,997
Very, very lucky to have that in the house that they've organized.

852
01:09:54,377 --> 01:09:55,917
They're bringing the Geyser team in.

853
01:09:56,657 --> 01:10:00,057
So very happy to have Metamick in the house this evening,

854
01:10:00,057 --> 01:10:05,517
presenting his new element within Geyser,

855
01:10:05,557 --> 01:10:07,137
the all or nothing fundraising thing.

856
01:10:07,817 --> 01:10:12,097
So looking forward to hearing about that for Nostra Nights.

857
01:10:13,457 --> 01:10:16,497
So this will be applicable, sadly,

858
01:10:16,737 --> 01:10:19,497
only for the folks listening on the live stream right now.

859
01:10:19,597 --> 01:10:22,597
If you are in London, do the proof of work.

860
01:10:23,357 --> 01:10:25,717
Forget what I said about the address.

861
01:10:25,957 --> 01:10:26,737
Do the proof of work.

862
01:10:28,497 --> 01:10:31,777
Find out where the Cypher Monk house is.

863
01:10:32,397 --> 01:10:36,217
And at what time will it be, Cypher?

864
01:10:36,357 --> 01:10:39,037
Six o'clock UK time till 11 o'clock.

865
01:10:39,177 --> 01:10:40,637
And there's going to be some free pizza.

866
01:10:41,157 --> 01:10:42,217
There's going to be a few free beers.

867
01:10:42,657 --> 01:10:44,077
And it's going to be a good evening.

868
01:10:45,677 --> 01:10:46,117
All right.

869
01:10:46,157 --> 01:10:48,537
So six o'clock London time.

870
01:10:49,597 --> 01:10:51,997
to all the folks listening on the live stream.

871
01:10:52,417 --> 01:10:56,757
If you are listening to this on Fountain or any other podcasting app,

872
01:10:57,197 --> 01:10:59,477
sorry to say you've missed your opportunity,

873
01:10:59,677 --> 01:11:01,177
but there will be a next one, I'm sure.

874
01:11:06,797 --> 01:11:10,537
So, you know, the art events that you have,

875
01:11:10,557 --> 01:11:15,097
and you mentioned the 2140 guys, is that Nat and others?

876
01:11:15,097 --> 01:11:18,457
Is that 2140 Cypher or is that something about someone else?

877
01:11:18,457 --> 01:11:40,157
I think, yeah, Nat is, well, I think there's two 2140 gangs, or they were one, maybe they became two. Nat is definitely part of their 2140 art and music. They seem to have a really cool crew of kind of rappers, MCs, musicians, performers, DJs, which they're doing great work at the moment.

878
01:11:40,157 --> 01:11:45,977
and then there's the sort of the other 2140 crew which I've had just more more dealings with and

879
01:11:45,977 --> 01:11:53,917
spent more time with which is mainly Mr. Anon and Mad Monkey and then their kind of team of

880
01:11:53,917 --> 01:12:02,417
artists all over the world, Mr. Toshi, F-Zero, Zaza Wow Wow, sort of all other crazy plebs

881
01:12:02,417 --> 01:12:09,837
and yeah with them we've run a few kind of DJ nights, we've run a few art exhibitions

882
01:12:09,837 --> 01:12:12,917
We've run two Bitcoin culture fests.

883
01:12:13,237 --> 01:12:15,417
We literally finished that maybe a month ago.

884
01:12:15,777 --> 01:12:16,637
So that was the second one.

885
01:12:16,957 --> 01:12:20,577
And that was, yeah, just trying to kind of, I guess,

886
01:12:20,637 --> 01:12:24,017
take advantage of London's kind of sprawling nature in many venues

887
01:12:24,017 --> 01:12:29,197
and try and do kind of a serious week of satellite events going on all over the city,

888
01:12:29,477 --> 01:12:34,557
obviously with CypherMonk as a key part of being a space where we can host lots of events,

889
01:12:34,557 --> 01:12:36,497
but then trying to kind of get to other places too.

890
01:12:36,497 --> 01:12:40,477
So yeah, it was a really successful culture fest with 2140 recently.

891
01:12:42,277 --> 01:13:01,083
And yeah and I must say as well because really on top of all this I really want to thank the people who supported us throughout this whole time which is all the plebs helping make this happen As you mentioned we call him the co absolute legend in the space

892
01:13:01,783 --> 01:13:05,943
And all the plebs that come and give us their hard sats to kind of make this happen.

893
01:13:06,643 --> 01:13:13,723
And then on top of that, a team which I'm very grateful to have met because they have supported us ever since we met them,

894
01:13:13,723 --> 01:13:16,423
which is the Angle team based in London.

895
01:13:16,423 --> 01:13:23,163
and they are in between taking Angle from level 1 to level 2

896
01:13:23,163 --> 01:13:27,183
and I think Angle level 2 is going to be quite a game changer

897
01:13:27,183 --> 01:13:29,963
for people building projects

898
01:13:29,963 --> 01:13:33,683
and all of the assorted projects that are coming out of Angle

899
01:13:33,683 --> 01:13:37,743
so to know that there are kind of hardcore devs

900
01:13:37,743 --> 01:13:39,083
who are building projects in London

901
01:13:39,083 --> 01:13:43,783
who value having the real space to work, to commune

902
01:13:43,783 --> 01:13:48,363
And to consider them friends as well on top of this, of course.

903
01:13:48,523 --> 01:13:50,703
All the people in this space, we're all friends.

904
01:13:50,963 --> 01:13:57,923
But very lucky to have actual supporters to make this project tick and carry on.

905
01:14:00,623 --> 01:14:05,143
And Angor uses it on occasion as a co-working space, correct?

906
01:14:05,963 --> 01:14:06,803
Yeah, exactly.

907
01:14:06,803 --> 01:14:09,883
So Angor, they co-work here.

908
01:14:10,603 --> 01:14:12,783
And we have a few other people co-working in the space.

909
01:14:12,783 --> 01:14:18,403
So that's kind of the main sort of daytime offer when people want to come and co-work.

910
01:14:20,383 --> 01:14:24,803
But yeah, it just obviously a lot of people have the fiat mining jobs.

911
01:14:25,143 --> 01:14:26,103
That's their daytime.

912
01:14:26,423 --> 01:14:30,323
So it just depends, you know, what the community needs at any one time.

913
01:14:30,403 --> 01:14:34,283
And we just we try and make sure the house can be as open and as accessible.

914
01:14:34,803 --> 01:14:39,543
But certainly to know that projects want to come here and use the space.

915
01:14:39,543 --> 01:14:41,183
I mean it's just

916
01:14:41,183 --> 01:14:43,683
to know that there are people

917
01:14:43,683 --> 01:14:45,743
thinking and building all in the same space

918
01:14:45,743 --> 01:14:47,803
you just you know ideas are being shared

919
01:14:47,803 --> 01:14:49,363
and I think

920
01:14:49,363 --> 01:14:51,663
I'd love to get some more teams in the house

921
01:14:51,663 --> 01:14:53,783
really I'd love to see lots of

922
01:14:53,783 --> 01:14:55,523
projects being built out of Cyphermonk

923
01:14:55,523 --> 01:14:57,443
and to know that

924
01:14:57,443 --> 01:14:59,263
you know we have

925
01:14:59,263 --> 01:15:01,263
as much kind of

926
01:15:01,263 --> 01:15:03,703
ammunition for change and for

927
01:15:03,703 --> 01:15:05,723
hope in this kind of

928
01:15:05,723 --> 01:15:07,543
in this movement that we're all part of

929
01:15:07,543 --> 01:15:20,183
Do you apply any kind of curatorial philosophy to the events, the art and the events that happen at Cypher Monk House?

930
01:15:22,083 --> 01:15:27,683
Hmm. I guess I do. I couldn't really explain it.

931
01:15:27,683 --> 01:15:33,963
I guess it's just my own sort of my own tastes and leanings about what should be going on.

932
01:15:33,963 --> 01:15:46,963
I mean, when it comes to education, I mean, I just we just try and freestyle and open it up with the community as much as possible and get plebs up on, you know, within, you know, if they're trusted, they're good, they know their stuff.

933
01:15:47,043 --> 01:15:52,043
We just try and get them up as soon as possible to get them presenting about whatever they want to present about.

934
01:15:53,203 --> 01:15:58,683
So educationally, it's just less the main thing is just we want to just keep it regular.

935
01:15:58,683 --> 01:16:21,923
I always want to make sure that there's a I've always felt like it's just we need to make sure that there's always the starting point for someone, you know, so any community, any space, you just always want to know that like some newbie in that town, that village can come to a place and they can start from the beginning because, you know, there are still millions of people that have to start from the beginning, you know, getting on board with all the tools and the knowledge.

936
01:16:21,923 --> 01:16:33,723
So that's always a kind of decision with the education. And then on top of that, it's just trying to feed the interests of what we're all trying to learn.

937
01:16:33,723 --> 01:16:36,703
and then from a sort of cultural perspective

938
01:16:36,703 --> 01:16:39,343
it's just

939
01:16:39,343 --> 01:16:40,943
it's my own kind of

940
01:16:40,943 --> 01:16:43,203
my own interests on top of what

941
01:16:43,203 --> 01:16:45,343
all of the other kind of cultural

942
01:16:45,343 --> 01:16:47,183
cultural plebs

943
01:16:47,183 --> 01:16:49,163
in the space are talking about

944
01:16:49,163 --> 01:16:51,243
and want to help kind of bring

945
01:16:51,243 --> 01:16:53,103
to the house so it's a kind of team effort

946
01:16:53,103 --> 01:16:54,663
I hope as much as it can be

947
01:16:54,663 --> 01:16:57,023
to get different things in the house

948
01:16:57,023 --> 01:16:59,143
and then yeah

949
01:16:59,143 --> 01:17:00,963
I think I've been sort of

950
01:17:00,963 --> 01:17:03,303
I'm always sort of still seeing things in London

951
01:17:03,303 --> 01:17:17,363
And so in a sense, I'm kind of I feel like I'm sort of always scouting now, because if I do see some kind of just non Bitcoin thing, but I feel like maybe the people seem like good people or they're young and they want to learn and they want to be part of something.

952
01:17:17,363 --> 01:17:30,123
You know, I do occasionally sort of just reach, try and reach out to people who are just artists in the city and see if they want to bring whatever their thing is, their music, their theater, their dance, whatever it might be into the house.

953
01:17:30,123 --> 01:17:35,643
and I think that's always a good kind of you know it's a good thing for them because it kind of asks

954
01:17:35,643 --> 01:17:40,163
them if they are happy to kind of enter a space which they know nothing about are they open to

955
01:17:40,163 --> 01:17:47,983
that invariably creatives are always keen to kind of experience something new so yeah I'm hoping to

956
01:17:47,983 --> 01:17:54,143
bring I say during the Camden Fringe I saw a lot of other shows just to see what else was on and I

957
01:17:54,143 --> 01:18:00,683
I saw a very interesting show that was very counter, counter culture, shall we say.

958
01:18:01,383 --> 01:18:07,823
And again, a kind of very sort of edgy physical theatre piece with three performers who were brilliant.

959
01:18:08,243 --> 01:18:14,163
And I have been talking with them and I'm hoping, I mean, this is not really a secret,

960
01:18:14,303 --> 01:18:18,383
but I guess I'm hoping to try and bring them to the house to have their work put up here.

961
01:18:18,383 --> 01:18:21,563
I mean, and already we're having those conversations about what is Bitcoin?

962
01:18:21,683 --> 01:18:22,423
What is this space?

963
01:18:22,423 --> 01:18:30,323
so I just think yeah I mean creatives always need a space to play in and to express what you know

964
01:18:30,323 --> 01:18:36,283
their ideas but if we can align more and more creatives in the world with Bitcoin and with

965
01:18:36,283 --> 01:18:40,623
NOSTA I mean it's a no-brainer for NOSTA you know if you're if you're creating any kind of content

966
01:18:40,623 --> 01:18:46,943
to think that in the 21st century you'd still be hustling for likes on Instagram is it's quite

967
01:18:46,943 --> 01:18:53,383
it's quite sad so we need to get people fast into Nostra um I literally just checked before the show

968
01:18:53,383 --> 01:19:00,783
um we are there's 11,000 you know roughly 11,000 daily users or average users on Nostra at the

969
01:19:00,783 --> 01:19:08,463
moment so we are still so young and so early in the Nostra space um so we've all got a lot more

970
01:19:08,463 --> 01:19:12,703
purple pilling to do that's for sure and and you know sometimes the purple pill is easier to swallow

971
01:19:12,703 --> 01:19:19,543
for people so um we will uh keep doing things like that yeah yeah i think yes love is something

972
01:19:19,543 --> 01:19:25,343
like 11 000 daily anything if you look at it weekly it rises to 30 or 40 000 which is still

973
01:19:25,343 --> 01:19:33,263
not a lot uh if you think about it tiny tiny tiny i mean it's like it's like a village

974
01:19:33,263 --> 01:19:40,083
and that's great though right i mean everyone always you know i mean maybe the twitter maxis

975
01:19:40,083 --> 01:19:43,523
they love to berate Nostra and say it's an echo chamber and things like that.

976
01:19:44,083 --> 01:19:47,463
But I mean, I just think, I actually think what a great thing to have.

977
01:19:47,883 --> 01:19:50,343
I like to think of it more often. It's an ideas chamber, you know?

978
01:19:50,483 --> 01:19:53,203
Okay, there's way less noise coming into it.

979
01:19:53,283 --> 01:19:54,223
There's way less distractions.

980
01:19:54,463 --> 01:20:01,123
There's way less of the kind of dark stuff that we're used to on Twitter and the tragedy.

981
01:20:01,343 --> 01:20:03,523
And it's just like, let's just look in the,

982
01:20:03,603 --> 01:20:05,823
let's just build in the direction that we're all going in.

983
01:20:05,823 --> 01:20:10,843
let's use this kind of contained space with such high frequency.

984
01:20:12,123 --> 01:20:17,023
So much more can be done in NOSTA than trying to get your message out

985
01:20:17,023 --> 01:20:19,523
through the algorithms and things.

986
01:20:19,523 --> 01:20:21,583
It's a no-brainer for me.

987
01:20:22,463 --> 01:20:23,803
It's the happiest place on the Internet,

988
01:20:24,123 --> 01:20:26,763
and it can be the most fun place on the Internet too.

989
01:20:27,963 --> 01:20:30,683
How often can you say that?

990
01:20:30,683 --> 01:20:37,243
I mean, yeah, the Internet has become a cesspool of despair for the most part.

991
01:20:38,123 --> 01:20:39,383
Yeah, yeah.

992
01:20:40,263 --> 01:20:42,103
So hence, yeah.

993
01:20:42,283 --> 01:20:46,663
But, yeah, I mean, Nostra is, we're lucky to have it.

994
01:20:47,123 --> 01:20:54,623
So, yeah, we just need to keep getting people towards it, keep GMing and web chaining, and it's all good.

995
01:20:54,623 --> 01:21:02,423
so what what is the most surreal or unexpected thing that's happened at cypher monk house

996
01:21:02,423 --> 01:21:10,063
oh really unexpected well i mean i've certainly had some surreal experiences here myself certainly

997
01:21:10,063 --> 01:21:17,363
i mean i do find it amazing how even sort of being obviously one of one of the main instigators

998
01:21:17,363 --> 01:21:22,823
of its change and and keeping it fresh how the house itself always kind of feels fresh and

999
01:21:22,823 --> 01:21:28,863
surprises me but um I think some of the some yeah certainly some individuals who've come through

1000
01:21:28,863 --> 01:21:33,863
have been quite surprising I mean you know and and sort of I think we had sort of someone who

1001
01:21:33,863 --> 01:21:38,803
literally is sort of not a government I think someone who worked for the for the Bank of England

1002
01:21:38,803 --> 01:21:43,743
um I mean we have well I won't talk about a pleb who's linked there but we have we just someone

1003
01:21:43,743 --> 01:21:48,743
who's kind of very a very statist kind of person came through to look at the art and really enjoyed

1004
01:21:48,743 --> 01:21:52,803
themselves but they told me about their career and it was just like oh my goodness are you meant to be

1005
01:21:52,803 --> 01:21:59,463
in here or should you be in here should i escort you out quickly um and then just yeah i mean i

1006
01:21:59,463 --> 01:22:03,803
think i mean it's more where it's when we try and take some of the madness onto the streets i mean

1007
01:22:03,803 --> 01:22:08,663
i'm i try to try to do as much as i can with sort of content and marketing and advertising and

1008
01:22:08,663 --> 01:22:14,763
have been have been known to don don the odd hilarious mask and uh yeah i mean we get we get

1009
01:22:14,763 --> 01:22:20,723
looks on the streets and things and lots of questions asked but i think i think the surrealness

1010
01:22:20,723 --> 01:22:27,563
is really it's just it's just seeing people all in the same space um sort of happily saying the

1011
01:22:27,563 --> 01:22:32,083
things that they're saying which seem you know maybe 10 years ago in my life would have seen

1012
01:22:32,083 --> 01:22:37,743
like the most extreme like nonsensical things but actually there's just every everyone is kind of

1013
01:22:37,743 --> 01:22:45,123
aligned i mean that in itself is surreal um but uh yeah i mean i don't know i mean it's you know

1014
01:22:45,123 --> 01:22:48,983
we're next door to a we're next door to an embassy i mean that's that's pretty surreal and you know i

1015
01:22:48,983 --> 01:22:52,623
I sometimes say good morning to the ambassador of bloody Kosovo.

1016
01:22:52,723 --> 01:22:54,083
And it's just outrageous, you know.

1017
01:22:54,103 --> 01:22:59,343
And it's just like here I am, you know, just caretaking a funny old Bitcoin pop-up

1018
01:22:59,343 --> 01:23:01,963
and chatting to the ambassador of Kosovo.

1019
01:23:02,043 --> 01:23:04,423
And he has no idea what kind of ambassador I'm trying to be.

1020
01:23:04,963 --> 01:23:07,283
So I guess that always feels a bit surreal.

1021
01:23:08,963 --> 01:23:13,643
But, yeah, the Bitcoin space is surreal, Abby, as you know.

1022
01:23:13,643 --> 01:23:19,863
How do you keep a place like that alive in an expensive city like that?

1023
01:23:19,889 --> 01:23:25,609
London. Is it pure sats and miracles or is there a practical structure behind it?

1024
01:23:26,289 --> 01:23:31,709
It's definitely been a lot of pure sats and miracles to start. And yeah, that's obviously not

1025
01:23:31,709 --> 01:23:38,289
the most sustainable thing. But obviously, with the nature of what the owners have allowed us to do,

1026
01:23:38,769 --> 01:23:44,829
it is definitively a pop-up space. And this iteration of it will come to an end whenever

1027
01:23:44,829 --> 01:23:50,229
that is and I think because of that kind of uncertainty from our point of view or lack of

1028
01:23:50,229 --> 01:23:56,729
clarity about when the end date is I mean god I had not expected to still be doing crazy cypher

1029
01:23:56,729 --> 01:24:04,409
monk business uh sort of 19 months after after an art show um but obviously I'm I'm so glad I am

1030
01:24:04,409 --> 01:24:09,989
I wouldn't be doing anything else the fact that I can I'm obviously doing it so uh but yeah keeping

1031
01:24:09,989 --> 01:24:18,609
it going and planning for a kind of next stage is very much kind of, yeah, the key

1032
01:24:18,609 --> 01:24:24,089
Cyphermunk work at the moment is really working out the structure for what happens next because,

1033
01:24:24,409 --> 01:24:31,629
yeah, it's kind of pure sats and miracles and a lot of free labour from a few hardcore

1034
01:24:31,629 --> 01:24:37,829
nutters making it happen is not going to kind of keep this going forever. So, yeah, we need to

1035
01:24:37,829 --> 01:24:43,549
kind of plan for being in another venue what happens in interim periods when we're kind of

1036
01:24:43,549 --> 01:24:49,869
maybe nomadic if if we can't jump straight into another space um but then you know london as we

1037
01:24:49,869 --> 01:24:54,489
know is full of spaces that you can pop up in and and and you know even just doing it in a pub or in

1038
01:24:54,489 --> 01:24:58,969
a even in a library or whatever i mean it's very easy to kind of find the space to do things it's

1039
01:24:58,969 --> 01:25:06,589
just making sure that we capitalize on on the network that we've built of of of monks of plebs

1040
01:25:06,589 --> 01:25:08,749
and the crazy people that make this thing happen

1041
01:25:08,749 --> 01:25:11,869
and making sure that that structure can carry it forward.

1042
01:25:13,489 --> 01:25:16,429
Now, so the Cyphermonk house really is an idea

1043
01:25:16,429 --> 01:25:19,329
more than a single physical location,

1044
01:25:20,189 --> 01:25:32,253
although it manifests itself best in a physical location but at the end of the day it is an idea I think it an idea yeah I mean the cypher concept is you know in itself

1045
01:25:32,393 --> 01:25:36,333
it feels like it's, yeah, it's a kind of additional thing

1046
01:25:36,333 --> 01:25:39,513
to kind of help the cypher-punks,

1047
01:25:39,653 --> 01:25:42,013
because I'm not sure I'm ever going to be at that scale

1048
01:25:42,013 --> 01:25:46,233
of being able to crazily code the next valuable thing

1049
01:25:46,233 --> 01:25:47,213
that we all need to use,

1050
01:25:47,213 --> 01:25:59,493
But certainly I can do my bit to kind of help spread the message, the culture, and try and develop the culture that helps us kind of, that ties everything all together so that we can move forward.

1051
01:25:59,573 --> 01:26:09,573
So that idea of kind of, you know, what is a cypher monk, you know, to try, people who want to propagandize and make community.

1052
01:26:09,573 --> 01:26:16,353
and yeah that idea for me is as you said is much bigger than a building

1053
01:26:16,353 --> 01:26:24,573
and I will certainly be flying that flag I would imagine for probably forever more Abbey.

1054
01:26:25,793 --> 01:26:29,993
But do you see that do you see this idea of the Cyphermunk house

1055
01:26:29,993 --> 01:26:36,313
as a London thing or as part of a broader cultural movement in Bitcoin?

1056
01:26:36,313 --> 01:26:43,273
time? Well, I mean, knowing that there are spaces everywhere, you know, in every country,

1057
01:26:43,673 --> 01:26:51,813
you know, I was lucky enough to go to the Bali festival early this year and seeing the Bitcoin

1058
01:26:51,813 --> 01:26:57,293
house Bali. I mean, you know, it's just amazing to know that there are people on the other side

1059
01:26:57,293 --> 01:27:02,333
of the world doing exactly the same thing, you know, in their own unique way, which is, you know,

1060
01:27:02,333 --> 01:27:05,233
It's just very kind of reassuring.

1061
01:27:05,633 --> 01:27:12,553
So I think that idea, you know, you're talking about these embassies, I mean, they will just continue to propagate.

1062
01:27:12,553 --> 01:27:20,673
I mean, to think that we've got a big building in London is going to be the be all on the end of it for this country is brainless.

1063
01:27:20,813 --> 01:27:22,133
I mean, they're going to be popping up.

1064
01:27:22,133 --> 01:27:41,197
And I kind of hope that the thing that inevitably happens when things end in the vacuum is that kind of that when we double up and then three spaces pop up and 10 spaces pop up So I think Bitcoiners anyone who crossed the digital space and gone into the real world and met other Bitcoiners

1065
01:27:41,497 --> 01:27:45,237
once you've done that and you know the value of having spaces,

1066
01:27:46,277 --> 01:27:52,997
Bitcoiners are not going to sit by and sort of be happy not having that space wherever it is for them.

1067
01:27:54,017 --> 01:27:56,937
And yeah, as more and more people come in, we'll need more spaces.

1068
01:27:57,937 --> 01:28:16,277
So, yeah, the idea of kind of, you know, sort of pilling our nations somehow from the inside out in the same way that I think, you know, governments and all these big institutions are in their own way being pilled from the inside, because obviously it's in everyone's self-interest to learn and understand Bitcoin and get hold of some Bitcoin.

1069
01:28:16,277 --> 01:28:27,597
So all of those people within governments and then, yeah, in the kind of real world terrain, it's it's knowing that there are buildings and little businesses starting to accept Bitcoin.

1070
01:28:27,797 --> 01:28:33,417
These are kind of little mushrooms within the terrain that are just starting to just be Bitcoin only.

1071
01:28:34,117 --> 01:28:38,937
And that that is unstoppable. But, yeah, we need to support them.

1072
01:28:38,937 --> 01:28:47,297
And we need we need plebs to go to go to the places, spend their sats and start the circular economy kind of in real world time.

1073
01:28:47,297 --> 01:28:53,577
Because, I mean, as a as a store of wealth, it's kind of it's kind of fine for everyone.

1074
01:28:53,677 --> 01:28:56,797
You know, it's kind of fine for the banks. It's kind of fine for the big guys.

1075
01:28:56,797 --> 01:29:05,997
But I think when it starts to become really a medium of exchange for many more people, I think we really start seeing a lot more change.

1076
01:29:05,997 --> 01:29:14,977
yeah couldn't agree more uh so cypher any any call to action uh you want to give the audience

1077
01:29:14,977 --> 01:29:22,677
anything else you want to plug call to action call to action is uh yeah just to everyone should

1078
01:29:22,677 --> 01:29:27,777
remember that they that they they can create this reality like none of us have to we don't have to

1079
01:29:27,777 --> 01:29:47,581
be afraid we can just make this reality come true as we are we will live and breathe it so um you know make it happen just just do it we all doing it so um simple call to action is that Stay true to your artist self Get to Cypher Monk House when you can or get to whichever local Bitcoin community space

1080
01:29:47,581 --> 01:29:50,201
or vendor you can and support them.

1081
01:29:50,621 --> 01:29:52,841
And yeah, keep spreading the good word.

1082
01:29:54,821 --> 01:29:55,261
Excellent.

1083
01:29:56,221 --> 01:29:58,801
Well, Cypher, thank you for being so generous with your time.

1084
01:29:59,221 --> 01:30:01,981
Thank you for all the amazing work you're doing in London.

1085
01:30:02,621 --> 01:30:03,741
I genuinely mean it.

1086
01:30:03,741 --> 01:30:08,801
I got the warm fuzzies when I was at the Cyphermunk House in London.

1087
01:30:10,341 --> 01:30:12,021
It's such a lovely place.

1088
01:30:12,321 --> 01:30:13,481
And it was so nice.

1089
01:30:13,521 --> 01:30:15,281
Every time I was there, there was a group of people.

1090
01:30:15,841 --> 01:30:20,161
And then we'd just sit down and have this impromptu, nice conversation.

1091
01:30:22,021 --> 01:30:26,581
I always felt like I belonged every time I went there.

1092
01:30:26,581 --> 01:30:34,841
And there's just full credit to you and your other caretaker at the Cypherman cast for doing such an amazing job there.

1093
01:30:35,621 --> 01:30:38,681
Thank you, Avi. I'm so pleased you came through and have had a good time.

1094
01:30:38,801 --> 01:30:41,021
The warm fuzzies, very, very good feedback.

1095
01:30:41,361 --> 01:30:46,001
And yeah, you are immortalized forever on our picture board with Mr. Roger 9000.

1096
01:30:46,221 --> 01:30:48,941
So I hope you will be back one day.

1097
01:30:50,021 --> 01:30:52,561
Oh, I most certainly will. Most certainly.

1098
01:30:52,561 --> 01:31:00,681
And then to folks who are listening, if you are in London or nearabouts, do do the work.

1099
01:31:01,161 --> 01:31:07,961
Find out where Cypher Monk House is and go and pay Cypher and others a visit.

1100
01:31:08,561 --> 01:31:09,181
You'll have fun.

1101
01:31:11,621 --> 01:31:13,901
Folks, thank you so much for listening.

1102
01:31:14,761 --> 01:31:17,201
I do hope you're listening on Fountain.

1103
01:31:17,201 --> 01:31:27,561
And while you're there, if you could hit that subscribe button, your support helps keep our mics warm and this podcast ad free.

1104
01:31:28,061 --> 01:31:31,041
We do appreciate all of our subscribers.

1105
01:31:31,841 --> 01:31:32,621
Thank you, Cypher.

1106
01:31:33,021 --> 01:31:38,281
Thank you to all the listeners on the live streams across Nostra.

1107
01:31:38,881 --> 01:31:41,121
Until next week, goodbye.