The noise of the week is behind us.
The feed is off.
The record is spinning.
It's time to stop interviewing and start listening.
Welcome to Sunday Brunch.
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, you curious, cultured connoisseurs of captivating content.
Welcome to the third serving of Sunday Brunch.
And today is, you guessed it, Sunday.
It is the 25th of January and very much brunch time on the east coast of the United States,
which can only mean one thing, your favorite music on the lightning-laced airwaves.
Now settle in.
This is not your regular podcast.
I don't have any questions prepared.
I don't have a sermon, and I won't be asking our guest about the imminent collapse of the Fiat Empire.
There's just a table, some coffee, and a record player.
The guest is the DJ here.
And because there is no corporate sponsor in the booth, you are the ones keeping the coffee pot full.
This is a Valley for Valley production.
I don't run ads.
This show runs on vibe
If you enjoy the selection today
You can throw some sats in the digital tip jar
By boosting on fountain or zapping on Noster
Here's the house rule
When the needle drops
The sats follow
90% of everything you stream during a song
Goes directly to the artist
You are tipping the band
When the music fades and we're just chatting, you're buying around for me and the guest.
And folks, episode three of my travel show, Finding Home, that's the newest Paraguay episode, is now available to watch.
If you want to see what sovereignty with fingerprints on it actually looks like,
Go watch that episode on IndieHub and use code PIONEER21 for the listener discount.
That's P-I-O-N-E-E-R and the number is 2-1.
Now, on with the show.
My guest today is a man who many say is the face of the Valley for Value movement.
Open Mike is here and he's brought his own playlist with him.
We're going to spin some tracks, we're going to talk about whatever topics emerged in the silences between the music
and give everyone listening a chance to enter this decompression chamber after a long week.
So, send back that order of eggs benedict if the yolk isn't runny enough.
And joining me from the warm, sunny and mostly peaceful streets of Minneapolis is Open Mike.
Welcome to Sunday Brunch, good sir.
Hey, thanks Avi. Great to be here. Great way to start off the Sunday here.
How you been, man? How are things holding up where you are?
Yeah, you know, you watch the default response to that question around here,
because it's always, oh, it's good, and it isn't.
But we're doing all right.
I'm trying to navigate this tense situation,
and the city and the people are really banding together
and trying to figure out what to do in the next right step, right?
Are you safe, though?
Because, I mean, it is looking a little gnarly out there
from some of the photos that are making there
and videos that are making their way on social media.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not a drama addict, but Bovino is three doors down from my house two days ago.
That big 50,000 person march ended at our business's front door across the street.
So we had a lot of, you know, it's been directly affected.
We haven't done a show since Thursday because of cancellations between safety concerns or bands not wanting to play or all of the above.
So it's very real.
Um, it's, it's not a, it's not a comfortable situation, but, um, the people are, are being
peaceful.
Uh, it's, it's interesting to hear what's reported in the news versus what we see on the ground
because it's, it's tense, but, um, I'm pretty amazed that there hasn't been any significant
violence, um, from the people.
It's, it's scary though.
It's not going away.
We're going to have to figure out some compromise and some way to adjust to what's going on here and figure out how to live our lives without all this going on.
You know, and you're, in some sense, you run these public venues, music venues.
how does that work on the evenings
do people actually show up to listen to live music
I only know what I see in the news
I'm not there on the ground
that looks scary
I can only imagine if that is the case
what it must be like when there's a public venue
and you have whatever it is
a few hundred people listening to music in a concert
and you never know what could happen, right?
Yeah, there is no right answer here
on how to run a public space in a time like this.
You can get criticized or put yourself at risk
no matter what decision you make.
At the end of the day, the artists are the customer.
So, for example, we had a touring band in town last night.
We've played, God, probably 50, I don't know, 30, 50 shows with them over the years.
And it's a big jam band, kind of a party.
Well, the band is Umphreys McGee.
A lot of people probably know him.
But, and, you know, they're in town.
You know, they're not from here.
They're traveling around.
They made plans.
We made, we signed a contract with them to do the show.
And then this thing happens in your city.
And you're left with the situation of what do you do, right?
Is it safe for the band? Is it safe for the public?
Does the band want to play?
And so yesterday the decision was made that the NBA across the street from us,
which is where the protest was the day before.
So we're kind of, we're really are at ground zero of a lot of this stuff.
in the NBA, the Timberwolves made the decision to
postpone the game yesterday and so most of the public
facing businesses and gathering spaces made the same
decision and so we just have to work it out with the band
and then we reschedule and
look forward to better days but the tragedy of the situation
is far, far, far more important than
a concert but it is you know some people music is medicine and that's how they grieve and that's
how they be in community and that that's a service to provide to open up your doors if you can do it
safely and let people get in there and and uh be together and that really that's what we've seen
since the beginning of January, we have had some pressures to do things,
whether it be in protest or in the spirit of safety or just solidarity.
Friday, for example, was an economic blackout,
and what that movement was is the schools shut down,
so there's no school in Minneapolis.
most people closed their offices
that was a business by business decision
and then
the third one was like no shopping or something like that
and so it was a true
just an act of protest
and that's been something that
more and more businesses have been called upon
to do in these times
And so the interesting part of our experience is that we, you know, in the music industry, it always seemed kind of strange to me being, you know, I buy a ticket to a show, I'm going to it, right?
I'm pretty, but we typically have a 10 to 15% no-show rate, and that's called the drop count.
So our drop counts are usually 10 to 15% below the number of paid tickets.
and during this time when you'd think that maybe the drop counts would be falling they've actually
done the opposite so more people who buy tickets are going out to you know we don't interview them
on the way in so i'm not sure if it's because they need to escape and they want to just do
something to not watch the news or they just want to be with their friends and whatever but
But in January, we've seen that despite being 20 degrees below zero the last couple of days and generally freezing this time of year, the drop counts have been high.
So people want to be out and going to shows and being with one another.
Isn't that interesting, Mike, that, you know, as you said, music is medicine.
but I think more broadly just art, culture, music included, obviously,
can be just a gentle form of escape for people.
And, you know, you can look at that and say,
well, that's just escapism, you don't want to deal with reality.
But if that experience, whether it's, you know,
walking through a gallery and looking at some beautiful art
or going to a live show or watching a really nice movie or whatever it is,
if that does put you in a better frame of mind for that short period,
then being in that constant state of stress, I guess,
especially in a difficult situation that's unfolding in Minneapolis,
then what's wrong with that?
Maybe that translates into curbing potential violent impulses
after you had that brief escape, that brief breather from it.
I think it does serve a purpose.
Yeah, I 100% co-sign that. And additionally, for a lot of people, it's not escape. It's engagement. It's dialogue. Because you can say things in artistic expression that isn't as divisive as saying something from a podium.
and it causes people to think and understand and communicate with one another.
And yeah, I think there's things in this world.
I think of Bitcoin as one of these too.
I've said it on various shows before,
but I look at things that kind of split through the divisive Team Red versus Team Blue
and kind of pierces that veil of bringing people together.
And Bitcoin is one of those for sure for me and for a lot of people.
Personally, I'm in recovery, so sobriety in that community is a huge one
where it's actually an explicit rule if you're in those rooms.
You do not talk about outside issues and you do not talk about anything divisive
because you've formed a common bond with everybody and nothing else matters.
And music is another one.
You can see some people that you would never expect listening to rage against the machine.
And you're like, do you know the lyrics here, guy?
You know?
But it kind of just cancels out and the beauty of the art forces people to deal with the differences and forces people to sing along to the same song
It's pretty cool.
So, Mike, hold that thought.
I want to get back to the topic of artistic expression in music and film and saying things that you otherwise wouldn't say or would sound a lot different if you were just saying them in a conversation.
So we'll get back to that.
But why don't we start with your first song and looking at the Fountain playlists that we're sharing here.
It is Little Mercy by a band called Doomtree.
Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, so this was personally very, very exciting to see this on Fountain, on Wave Lake.
And it's a funny story.
And it weaves into all different parts of my life, so it's very special.
But Doomtree is a Minneapolis supergroup.
They're friends.
They all have individual careers.
It comprises of P.O.S., Dessa, Mike McClan, Sims, and Laserbeak, who you've seen on Noster.
He's the one who's joined Noster as an individual, and he's posted some albums on to the Valueverse.
And Doomtree is the supergroup that comes together, and they put out albums.
This album is actually from 2014, which the album is called No Kings, which actually feels pretty timely in Minneapolis right now for a lot of the protests you see.
They've had quite a resurgence in their merch, I know.
But the Laserbeak, he's the CEO and a founding member of Doomtree and Doomtree Records.
So he owns all of the IP.
And so that's why we can put up their music into the Valueverse without any issues of rights and all of that.
And he's really a pretty powerful voice here in the Minnesota, Minneapolis music community.
if Doomtree was going to play a show here in Minneapolis next weekend,
I bet we could sell 10,000 tickets over a weekend
if we just said, get the band together, see what happens.
He was actually Lizzo's first producer, which is also a fun little fact.
So he produced Lizzo's first album about 12 years ago.
and um yeah just an awesome dude so he he's dating he's dating a friend of mine and it
um i didn't you know i didn't pitch him on any of this stuff so it's it's a very cool story of
you know i think the nostor value for value bitcoin community like we're just
we get really excited we go out and push this stuff to people and say you got to try this
and like this one was the opposite he came to me he he heard about what what i was doing and what i
was interested in and tunster and it came up through a dinner with his girlfriend and actually
my sister and then he asked about it and so we went out and started unpacking it a bit and then
he did a he did a sold out show um at the seventh street entry at first avenue last may and did it
on Tunester and it was pretty cool. This is one of my favorite songs that Doomtree did.
This is from 2014. The main vocalists in this are... Oh, I left off a couple of band members.
Cecil Otter and Paper Tiger are also in Doomtree. Cecil Otter and Dessa are the primary vocalists
on this song.
And Dessa is probably the individual
with the most prominent solo career.
She was on the Hamilton mixtape
and got well over a million streams on that song.
So it's a good track and it's even better live.
So I'm rooting for that.
I'm rooting for those reunion concerts.
Awesome.
This is Little Mercy by Doomtree.
Bottom of the fifth and that shit is still burning.
I'm building every wall and stairs sturdy.
And when our work is done, then we'll call our shares worthy.
In the land of milk and honey, too shy to say we're thirsty.
We just make a little money and we buy a little merch.
Oh, my Lord.
The car was turned back
Now the candle's in the window when it's open
We watch the frames duke it out with every gust
And we're hoping no one must just burn
To the bottom of the wick is the bottom of the fifth
And that shit is still burning
If you welcome every trespass and every tramp's a gift
Give what they will take from you and every theft's a gift
Hold so tightly to what's in your hands or in your chest
In the future it won't open, our readers can't work this
Broken bones are stronger for the breaking of the dangers in the bending
Concessions that you never can take back
Curl you around the cane, you're still intact but not quite lame
Better to grit your teeth, ready to cast and let it stop
We're always first to come running when we hit the ground
We never do leave our leave
Send sent to the lost and found
We just make a little money
And we
We start that long walk into town
Where we buy the mercy
No more
No more talk about the backfire.
Since time we fire back.
Light, imagine light the past up before it catches up.
We'll raise a mask and cast off.
Yeah, we'll break some legs, we'll mend them, and then we'll take the cast off.
We've had our losses.
We've had our victories.
We sat across from every victim of their misery.
That pounding in our chest was just a symptom of our sin.
And we lay ourselves to rest with both our winnings and our injuries.
We're so hungry.
We're so thirsty.
I'm gonna hunt until it hurts me.
And it hurts me.
And it's aching.
It's aching.
We're so thirsty.
We're gonna make a little money.
And we'll buy a little mercy.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
The candle's in the window when it's open.
We watch the flames duke it out with every gust,
and we're hoping no one must just burn to the bottom of the wick.
It's the bottom of the fifth and that shit is still burning.
That was Little Mercy by Doontree.
Love it, Mike.
Nice vibe.
Definitely dug that.
Yeah, they are great.
So Laserbeak, you said, joined NOSTA.
When was that?
And you did a Laserbeak show, didn't you?
Yeah, yeah.
he has a so doom tree um desil now lives in in brooklyn um pos has a very solid solo career it's
hard to get the whole group together now because they've had good success as a solo artist um
but they have a subgroup called shredders which got together so it's the it's them
minus Dessa basically and they did a they did a show in May and it was it was awesome it was great
really exciting and trying to continue to keep the keep the momentum going but artists you know
they got there's it's such a grind being an artist and just say hey you've got this new
platform you've got to manage you've got another it's kind of like they already manage half a
dozen social media handles and try to make ends meet it's it's tough to get them we really got to
focus on getting you know getting these people zapped and boosted and getting some positive
results to incentivize them to really go full force because they get it he sees the value prop
he understands the problems but you know we got to get the we got to get the the listeners and
the zappers and the community really pumped up to to get them pumped up and then create that flywheel
that isn't it's always been an interesting one right mike which is there's two there's two sides
to value for value one is the person providing the value whether it's the podcaster or the musician
or whoever it might be and then the other side is the person consuming that who in an ideal world
if they do get value out of what they've consumed,
returns it in the form of a zap or a boost.
And we do see that, right?
There are, I mean, no,
I don't think anyone's making a living off of this,
but if you look at podcasts like Chris Fisher's
This Week in Bitcoin and Linux Unplugged, right?
I mean, he's far and away on the leaderboard
when it comes to getting the boost and what have you.
I mean, this is probably an order of magnitude
more than anyone else,
including any of the Plep Chain radio shows
and others that you see on the front and top 10.
There are people making some headway
and obviously Chris Fisher is a veteran podcaster.
He's been doing this for 15 years, I think.
so I think he knows
he knows how to
craft his episodes
and his asks and so on
but it is a bit of a challenge
because you have a lot of artists
you have a lot of folks
even on NOSTA
putting up their artwork
or whatever it might be
and they spend hours
making a nice video
they put it up
and then it's hit or miss
sometimes you get
the 100,000 sat
zap, sometimes you get crickets
I wonder
what type of
behavioral change it would
need
for this to work
would it take artists to say
look I'm done with this, I'm leaving
I'm spending all this money
and I'm getting nothing in return, almost nothing
in return and then people realize
wait a second, if you want
this, then we actually need to step up and support it.
Yeah, I mean, I think what I tell people, and maybe it's lost in context, because like,
you know, Bitcoin years are like dog years, right?
Like, it's like we think so, like, things move so fast here.
But when I say I'm playing the long game, and I'm patient, I mean, I mean, the long game,
because this is a, it's going to take, you know,
we didn't get into the forest in a day
and we're not going to get out in a day, right?
Like we've got some deeply entrenched behaviors
from customers and from bands that you know need to be adjusted and need to be broken And um you know you look at somebody like like you mentioned Finch and like Adam Curry he was doing value for value
like 18 years ago. Like he was doing it on fiat rails and PayPal and like training his supporters
and his customers. Like, if you want, if you want more of this content, if you like what I'm doing,
put your money where your mouth is.
And it takes the creator to do that.
You know, it can't be like, it can't be the Bitcoiners and the devs.
It's got to be the people who have the fan base.
And the only time I've seen that really happen was at a music festival in Wyoming
that the Daniel and Tatum Turnup and myself and Manny went out to.
And it's called WhatFest.
We put it together very quickly, so we didn't market it very well.
And we were kind of just proof of concept kind of thing.
And we got to the organizers of the festival, and they had it on Wyoming Public Radio.
and the people on stage were the ones talking about it.
It wasn't us.
It was, you know, we'd tell them what we're doing
and they'd say, this is awesome.
And so they were telling normies how to do it
and we had a tent set up in the back
and people would come up and, you know,
we'd give them the primal onboarding cards
with the 2100 sats and, you know, get them set up
and then they would boost from their own newly acquired wallets.
And until we get an artist to bring their normie fan base in, that's going to be, you know, you think about at the Shredders concert.
I mean, people were crying.
Like, that's how excited they were about this band, you know, playing.
And if those people had already been in our community, I mean, they probably would have made five grand.
I'm not exaggerating.
if you get the people who are really excited about the music and Bitcoin isn't the main attraction.
And right now, like, you know, this is Bitcoiners in our little echo chamber.
And it's kind of the technology is the main attraction to a lot of us.
And it's kind of proof in the pudding.
Like this playlist that I put up today, you'll hear is like,
these are grown up artists from the outside world who came into our community
and just dipped their toe in the water.
And they're not screaming it from the stage
and telling all of their fans to go,
this is how I choose to be supported.
I actually love, I use your intro line from PCR,
from PubChain Radio,
where you thank people for listening on the traditional platforms,
but consider going over here.
And I use that a lot in talking to artists and very gently just saying, I would never in my good conscious suggest that anybody just rips the cord and abandons all of their existing business models to come into value for value.
Because it would be a really bad financial decision.
I think that's the way that some of these things could be rebuilt, but we're talking years or decade away.
It's not anything.
You need people to start in this community and build their way up.
It's hard to make the change full pivot if you're already in.
Well, and the UX has got to catch up as well.
100%.
Yeah, we can't be talking about wallets and we can't be talking about key pairs with these people.
It's got to just be like, you know, click, click, forget about it.
Add it to your restream and just forget about it.
Yeah.
Boobery in the comments, in the live stream comments, has Adam Curry and John.
Now, is it pronounced Dvorak or Dvorak like the Czech composer?
I think it's Dvorak.
Dvorak, okay. It's not the Czech pronunciation. And I think Boobry means they are also an example of a successful value for value model on their podcast.
Yeah, they are the model. It's just that they built this before Bitcoin existed.
They were asking and they were directly asking their supporters to do this behavior and then trained them over the years.
And it worked.
but that's a big ask if you look at at doom tree and you say i want all of my existing fans to
change their behavior and it's a really confusing look to just be like why why are my favorite
artists doing this like this doesn't make you know like it's it's the incentives aren't there
for them to like create that that pivot or that divide unless unless the system truly isn't
working for them. And you see it right on, if you look at the Fountain leaderboard,
I'm sure there are other places where you can find these leaderboards, but I just happen to
go to Fountain. You see Chris Fisher's podcast and you have people boosting 200K on an episode,
right? And you see that on Adam Curry's podcast as well. So there are people out there who are
willing to do it if you provide them the value 100 and if the if you're like i i make i made the
joke like i'm glad i'm glad that doom tree didn't have this album on you know value for value when
it came out because i would be broke like it was i mean i listened to this album so much in like
the 2014 to, you know, well, to current,
but to be able to impulsively just share, you know,
my feelings or the, you know,
the movement that I get out of a song with a quick,
like economic button click.
I would have been doing that like a maniac for, you know,
all of these artists.
Yeah.
No, for sure.
Same here, Mike.
So let's listen to your next song first,
and then we'll talk about it.
Cool.
This one is by Theo Katzman,
and it's called You Could Be President.
It's from a live show in Amsterdam.
Yeah!
Mama, mama, it's a madman world
You know this one
I feel bad for all the poison blues
Falling in from the astral plane
Out of the great unknown
Into the grand insane
I've got good news
You don't have to play by the blues
So step right up and just take your brain
And I'm gonna teach you how to play the game
Just throw your punches in
Have no resistance
Follow the mission
In spite of evidence
This owner is just a five-minute residence that you could be
Mama, mama, I hate you, say
Doggy dog seems like the only way
Take your seat in the captain's gym
Smell it, but it's a blood nose.
The golden rule ain't gonna get you there.
Don't be home and don't be calm.
All that noise is just a waste of time.
It's a waste of your time.
I pay no mind on what the people say.
So long as the people say your name.
Keep saying your name.
Just don't look what you said
I have no hesitance
Follow me
In spite of evidence
This whole life
This is the private residence
And you can be
Mama, mama, it's hard to see
That old lady called Liberty
Whooping into that New York babe
Well, if I could console it, this is what I'd say.
Come on now, say.
Just throw your punches and have no hesitance.
Follow the punches in spite of evidence.
This whole earth is just private residence.
And it's all good, so you can make your mess of it.
From your mouth and make all your messages.
Just the truth until you can't make sense of it.
You can't live.
But you can keep on spending it.
You can be president.
Yes, you can be president.
Yes!
I love you!
That was You Could Be President by Theo Kassman.
Great song, Mike. Great choice.
I was at Beko and Atlantis in Madeira.
When was that? March of 2021.
I can't believe it's been two years almost.
And Theo Kassman played there.
Joe Martin played, Theo Kassman played, a few others did.
That was a great day. Great show.
Yeah, I was so jealous.
I was shocked when I saw that because we know Theo from the day job.
Every show he's played with us has been obviously a big sellout.
And I had no idea how he arrived in the community.
I guess it came through Jeff Booth, and I've since connected with Theo and his manager and trying to just get a better understanding of what he's up to and how is he incorporating this into the existing career.
career and the answer is he's he's just really passionate about the space but you know even like
me i made the decision to to come out and to really be active in the community but it it's
it's challenging it's challenging to like find this and incorporate it into your
existing identity and product but he is i mean you can hear that energy that must
have been awesome to see him in Madeira. Oh, it was great. It was a great show all around,
actually. It was a beautiful, huge outdoor venue. And there were several hundred people there.
And I saw they're doing it again in 28. Is that right? I can't wait. I'm already
blocking it off. I'm blocking it off. I'm holding Andre to it if he's not planning on it.
probably the best pick on conference i've been to mike uh i mean there's several good ones that
are right up there but this one was special oh yeah theo i mean wolf pack is the band that he he's
um a part of this is his solo album so he has all of the rights and ability to post
um his own content to value for value but um if you don't know the band wolf pack v-u-l-f-p-e-c-k
I mean everything they do sells out And I think they played three shows back here in Minneapolis
including one of them, like a lunchtime matinee.
And everything they did was just awesome.
And so I was super excited to just see his name randomly pop up,
and it was one of those moments where I was like, is this happening?
you know is he a noster yeah okay folks look up theo catsman on noster
and give him a follow i will too i didn't even know he was on noster
yeah and that's what's funny is like you look at these
these guys on my list the the disconnect is just absurd to me that like theo catsman has 350
followers on Noster, Sam Means
has 300, Laserbeak
has a couple hundred
and like
yeah
Sam is running
we'll get to him in one of these future
songs but they're selling thousands
and thousands of tickets out in the real world
and nobody knows who they are here
yeah
that is funny
Mike, let's listen to your next song
talk about it and then I do want to get back to
one of the earlier open threads.
Actually, speaking of Sam Means,
your third song is by Sam Means.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
So this one is Yeah, Yeah by Sam Means.
Today was the day
That I put everything in perspective
I fell asleep when I woke up
Everything changed and the skies turned on. That was before. That was before.
You came along and you turned me on with a little bit of love and a little bit of yeah, yeah.
Today is the day
That I threw out everything that I wanted
I was scared, but that's alright
Who needs a ride that's taking too long?
That was before
Came along and he played me a song
With a little bit of love and a little bit of yeah, yeah
Yeah.
That was Yeah, Yeah by Sam Means.
And Mike, it is interesting that in the Nostra and Bitcoin world,
Sam is known as the lightning store and the wave lake guy.
When in reality, he's actually, his biggest project is his music.
And his band, the format and some of his solo work as well.
yeah it is um it's it's funny you um and even that like he i knew sam i mean i'd say through
i met him i made all these connections through bitcoin but not knowing so i had actually done
work with sam in two different contexts before wave lake because he's also running a very
substantial successful merch business called hello merch which does um the fulfillment and
production and art and and anything you want for um independent artists uh merchandise operations
so they they are the official merchandiser of neva the national independent venue association
which you'll see me wearing their their stuff all over the place at conferences and
And I'm on a couple of the committees and one of the founding members of NEVA.
And so it's kind of funny to me.
Sam just played a show in Minneapolis with the format about a month ago.
It was mid-December.
And I tell you what, it was easily the toughest ticket in town to get.
Like it was, it was a, again, it was an afternoon show because it was, it was a last second kind of tour that they put together and we were booked everywhere.
But I mean, those tickets were going for hundreds of dollars.
And if you pull up the formats touring page, they did their, their reunion show in Phoenix.
They sold out an arena in, at the state fairgrounds.
And I know Heather and QW and a lot of the Noster PHX folks were down there.
And if you're in the music business and you pull up their tour right now, I mean, they sold out the Ryman in Nashville.
They're playing all the big places.
so it's kind of funny to me when I hear people just assume you know Sam from Wavelake I'm like
yeah like he is Sam from Wavelake but he's he's too humble to to beat his own chest but
he's a big deal everybody knows him in music and they're playing uh Jimmy Kimmel on Thursday for
example so mark your calendars for if you want to see their their new album Boycott Heaven just
dropped uh two days ago so they are it's really exciting and they have a label right mike they
won't be dropping it on wave lake for instance right and that's another it's another great
example isn't that kind of telling of how hard this space is is that the founder of wave lake
and and his band are playing jimmy kimmel and it's not on wave lake like that's that's kind
of the obstacles that we're up against though as a community you know i had this conversation on
just a few weeks back with uh noah and lahav from scardust about and they have a label too
right and and the conversation was how do you how is there a way in which we can get
their amazing music sam's amazing music all of these other amazing bands into
this open music ecosystem
at Fountain, Wave Lake,
all the other Valley for Value
apps that are out there.
And
it probably has to start with
orange pilling
the labels themselves and then
trying to convince the labels that, look, you can take a
split.
Just put the music up on these
as an RSS feed or
whatever it is, as long as it's available
on all of these apps.
And then for every boost, every zap, every stream,
the label gets whatever percent, 50%,
and then the rest goes to the band.
I think the conversation has to be that, right?
Yeah, I mean, I wanted to put...
Yeah, I wanted to put Scardust on my playlist.
And I was like, this sucks, right?
You can't...
like, why can't these songs be, you know, on both places?
And I know the legalities and the contracts, everything,
there are very good reasons why you can't.
But it's something that a lot of people are working really hard on,
and I'm not sure, I don't deal with the recorded space.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in those areas, but it is fraught with a lot of very litigious people and a lot of threats and very limiting contracts.
But I think it is.
how much money do these labels make from spotify or itunes or apple music i guess it's on itunes
anymore yeah it's it's a black box because you know the way for example the way it works
in our venues you know you you have
um all of your pro's the the royalty companies so if say you know avi puts out a
puts out a single and you don't know how to monetize it you'll sign with either ASCAP,
BMI, CSAC, GMR, one of these agencies and their job is to go be the you know the enforcers that
when your content is being played the people playing it are paying for it and so we've got
six venues and two restaurants, for example, here in Minneapolis, and they could just walk
into your door, hear that you're playing ambient music, like something that's not instrumental.
It's like you're playing the radio. And if you're playing the radio, then you have to
pay them. You have to pay them an annual fee and it could be 10 grand. If you're a ticketed venue,
It's based on a percent of your ticket revenue.
So it's just, you know, it adds up real fast.
But then once we write the check to ASCAP, BMI, or CSEC, we have no idea as a customer of the music, right?
Like if we're playing Sam Means song, I have no idea how much is going to the artists.
I just know that I've paid my ransom to BMI and ASCAP, and that's it.
and then they run it through their machine of overhead and lawyers and all that
and whatever's left over presumably goes to the artists.
And with something like Spotify or Apple Music, there's a paper trail, so to speak.
They know how many times a song has been played because they track it.
And that's how the old radio stations used to work is they'd have to submit their playlists.
we have to submit our playlists too like our set lists when when a band plays so they do their best
to track how many times a song is getting played but that's part of the big problem where like it's
the haves and the have-nots because the ones that have a really good paper trail are the huge
platforms and those are the ones that are playing taylor swift and and the big names that are
already doing just fine.
Yeah, every time this type of topic comes up, it's just, it's disgusting, Mike.
It's a disgusting mess of rent seekers and vested interests.
And it's always the listener and the artist who end up getting shafted and everyone else
makes off like a bandit.
It's a big problem.
It really has changed our relationships with artists in the booking side, too, because even when I was growing up, I'd bike over to Sam Goody and get my CDs.
And that's how I consumed music, because I'd pay 15 bucks to listen to the favorite songs that I had heard on the radio.
and artists would mainly you know they'd go on tour they'd make money on tour but
the tour was to promote the album and sell more discs and now it's flipped so now they
they need to make all their money on tour and they give away the album so to speak to sell
tickets on tour and well that puts that puts a different strain on the on the live side of like
How do you run a venue and pay artists what they're worth and cut fair deals and keep the lights on?
It's just as hard to be the venue and compete with all these huge interests.
In our case, it's Live Nation.
In their case, it's the PROs and Spotify.
The little guy's getting squeezed on both sides.
well that's why
the hope is that we spread the word
well we need better UX
that's for sure
and just the broader open music ecosystem side
better UX for
booths and zaps and streams
and onboarding
even
and we just try and
chip away I guess
until a critical mass is reached
Mike, before we play the next song
I do want to go back to the topic
we were talking about in the beginning
which is music and art in general
allowing people to express themselves
in a way that would be more confrontational
if they did it in a normal conversation
now having said that though
and I happen to agree with that in general
but having said that
if you look at what's the trajectory
of culture in the last 15-20 years
so much preachiness
and I guess, you know, wokeism
if you will, right, has crept in
into the messaging
right, movies are
they're basically trying to teach people
a lesson on what a good
moral human being is
it's kind of crept into music as well
it is a hard balance to strike
which is being able to speak
about an injustice
through your art
without
you know just making it completely moralizing and preachy to the point where the art is
completely submerged in this uh ideological message
yeah it i guess it it's for me it's it's authenticity you know that's the divide that's
the the differentiation is is if if you're just expressing yourself and speaking your truth and
and representing your own reality, that's one thing.
But if you're being influenced by an outside interest or, you know,
you're doing something subversive to like instill a specific message or using
your platform for ulterior motives, that's different, obviously. And,
you know, without specifics and like this,
underlying culture and message in art.
It's tough, but I think
in the indie, I'm fortunate that in the indie
music scene that we're in, it largely is
pretty authentic, unless I just give the benefit of the doubt to too many people.
But
it is a sneaky way to get subliminal messaging across, right?
Through film and music and pop culture.
Yeah, I think if it's authentic, completely agree.
But I guess just to play devil's advocate here, Mike, for a second,
people can be manipulated, including artists,
by interests that want to shape culture in a certain way to their benefit.
and they can be psychologically manipulated
into believing that what they're about to say,
the cause that they're championing through their art,
is their authentic voice,
when it might be subtle manipulation through a psyop
or something like that.
Yeah, it's a question of who are those people behind the scenes?
How truly independent is the voice that you're hearing?
Yeah.
So, Mike, let's move on to your next song, which is by Henry Invisible, and it's called Do It Good.
Why don't we play it first and then you can talk about it.
Sure.
Sometimes I put my head into my hands
And think about a bright tomorrow
I keep on wondering about the world
Cause you can feel there's so much sorrow
Then I'll remember
There's no more
If I could, I would
Because I can
I'd sing you this message
May resonate, yeah
With every human being
Here we are
Do it good, yeah
And do what you can
Cause you should
Got to do it good
Do what you can
Cause you should
Say it like this
No need to ever wonder why
Things in the world are that way
Why there's so much magic in this world
And you can tell that every day in many ways
There's you and me
And we can be everything we want to be.
Well, how do you do it good?
You got to do what you can, cause you should.
Do it good.
You got to do what you can, cause you should.
Do it good.
You gotta do what you can cause you should
Now...
Do it good
Yeah, I gotta do what you can cause you should
Now...
Do it good
Yeah
You gotta do what you can cause you should
Now...
do it
you gotta do it
but you can't
when you can
that was
Do It Good
by Henry Invisible
Mike, I don't think I'm familiar
with this act, I love that song, it had that nice
upbeat energy, a perfect brunch
song, but tell me a little
bit about Henry Invisible
Yeah, Henry, he's so much fun. He's a staple in the Austin music community. So I met him last year for the first time. And he was recommended to me by actually somebody affiliated with South by Southwest down in Austin when we were working on this show with Adam Curry. I guess it was 2024 now. It's 2026.
um and so i started um just chatting with him in you know the summer fall of 2024
and he was fascinated by this value for value nostr creator economy he just he's ate it up and um
so we booked him to play on that um the show with uh with adam curry and ainsley and all the
you know that that great night sats by southwest down there and um he's still posting on nostor
he loves it he's he posts all these fun little shorts in his studio where he's just jamming and
um you know saying hi and it's it's always kind of funny and endearing when you hear like somebody
coming in new and they you know they mistake you know the the app for the protocol you know they're
like hey primal fan fam and uh you know he's but he's into it and um i keep in touch with him and
he's he's he's doing a weekly residency down in austin and selling a lot of tickets he does he
does live shows and dj sets and um he's just you can tell from this from the music he just
he's great at getting the crowd going and um just a fun voice very positive guy
and he's on Nostra as well so here's what I'll do Mike in the show notes uh for the podcast itself
I will include the npubs or or a link to their uh Nostra profile for all of these artists who
are on Nostra I mean Sam everyone knows is on Nostra but I'll include that as well um Theo
Katzman uh and these are on all of the people I put are on Nostra now for Doomtree would that be
laser beak or doom tree has okay yeah it'd be laser beak okay yeah i'll make sure i get all of
those into the show notes uh and you were talking about austin mike and that reminded me a couple of
months back you both from i think from your account and the teenster account you were posting
videos of this venue uh on sixth street in austin right across the street from
Rogan's Comedy Club. It's called Maggie Mays. And then I think you said that they've joined Nostra.
And that was interesting to see. But what is the story behind Maggie Mays and what's happening in
Austin? Yeah. You know, for forever, it'll sound kind of funny from a guy who runs venues for a
living, but I've been looking for a permanent home for Toonster, like a place where we just,
it becomes just the standard of operations, right? Like you, you just have it set up.
And if, if you give the, you give artists the 30 second elevator pitch of, Hey, I've got this
thing, you know, you want to turn the cameras on and see if you get any free money. That's
essentially the the layman's term like no no risk pitch that i give and um you know i tried to do it
at the vinyl lounge in nashville and they had a change of ownership and they just they weren't
doing it like the phantom power team was just working their butts off and doing all the work
for them and we need somebody who's actually on site to do it and invest in it with time like i'll
put in, I'll put in the capital and the equipment, whatever, and help out. But we need somebody to
run with it and to buy in. And so the owner of Maggie Mays had heard about Toonster from,
from the Sats by Southwest show in, in 2024. And he just cold called me basically and said,
what do I got to do to, to do this? And I thought it was BS. I was like, yeah, right. Like I thought
it was, you know, like a fake account, you know, on Huster, you know? And, um, and one of his
friends down in, in Austin was at, you know, at Bitcoin park, he's a based Bitcoiner. I'm not
going to dox him because he's very private. Um, but he, he made the connection to us and we started
talking and and i was like yeah let's do that and i went down there and visited and he's literally
his front door faces rogan's comedy club like you walk right out the door and it's there's the
mothership and it's right on sixth street about what two or three blocks from bitcoin park austin
and you know that's arguably one of the busiest music streets in the country and so um that being
said, Sixth Street's, you know, like downtowns in a lot of cities, it's seen better days and it's,
business is tough. And so we're working with him to come up with ideas to,
to, you know, revitalize the business and differentiate him from other,
you know, just standard bars on the street. And, um, I know Shadrach's been on PCR. He's been
incredibly helpful and he's been engaged with the project too and um you know we're trying to
it has the potential to be a really beautiful bitcoin and noster story because that street
is iconic like maggie mays itself was once an iconic live music venue
and it's since become much more of just a bar with covers and you know generic entertainment and
of you know maybe I don know if it not tourist but you know 6th Street is is kind of tourist or college vibes And you know incorporating in a tasteful subtle way you know I always say you know bury the tech
if you could embrace this culture and kind of stick in Bitcoin payments
by using the payment terminals that Shadrack's working on
and helping coach the owner on how to educate people
on all of the ethos of our community and value for value and the music space.
It's a huge, huge venue.
It has multiple rooms, multiple stages, and it's not a foregone conclusion that it's going to succeed.
But if it does and we can turn it around, he's all in.
He's all in on this community, and it's pretty cool in the location.
You could just stumble into Bitcoin and Noster by accident just because you're on 6th Street if we get this place humming.
That would be incredible, Mike.
A Noster hub, of course, Bitcoin, I mean, with Noster, there's obviously going to be Bitcoin baked in in the background.
a Noster hub for, and essentially a headquarters for TuneStir
in the heart of downtown Austin,
across the street from Joe Rogan's Comedy Club.
That'd be huge.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a Hail Mary.
I'm not going to say this is, again, a foregone conclusion,
but just to simply have an owner who makes the decisions
and calls the shots this open and excited and motivated, I haven't seen that yet.
So I'm doing everything I can to support him and, you know, consult him even on the operating
side of the business of like, how do we, let's, let's just, let's write the ship.
Let's get the, let's get the book straight.
Let's get the finances straight.
Let's not, you know, you're not going to get rich off of just posting on Noster right
now but we're playing the long game let's let's put our flag in the ground let's say who we are
why we're doing what we're doing but we really got to focus on blocking and tackling on your just
basic food and bev business and you're you know getting people into your business so you can keep
the lights on and then and then let's get cranking on on all the fun stuff too so i'm trying to
balance the two.
That, yeah, that would be something, Mike.
You know, physical outpost, a physical embassy
that's accessible, that's non-corporate and accessible, right?
I think one of the risks that a lot of these physical embassies,
Bitcoin outposts, run into is at some point
they realize they need to start making money.
And they open the doors to these treasury company,
the, you know, financial engineering stuff.
and they start having more and more of those types of events.
And we don't need to name the existing physical outposts
that are out there,
but some of them tend to fall into that.
No, you could say it's a rational financial decision.
But what happens with that is with that corporatization
is it loses that raw energy of a revolution, right?
Where people can wander in,
like cypherpunks can wander in
and have conversations about all sorts of things
and maybe make connections
and start building the next big thing,
the next instrument of the revolution.
And then you can have artists and musicians.
I think the one place that sort of sustained this,
the physical outpost that sustained this,
is the Cypher Monk House in London.
Truly fantastic place.
I would recommend anyone who's planning a visit to London,
who hasn't been to the Cypher Monk House,
to go check it out.
The location, you need to figure out where it is.
I think that's part of the charm there.
You need to figure out where it is and then show up there.
And they will take you in.
If you're a Bitcoin or you're not...
Anyone, they'll take you in.
And you can chat and you can learn about things.
They have lots of events there.
So they've maintained that cypherpunk ethos.
Some of the other ones are losing it.
But I think, Mike, if you're involved,
if Shadrach is involved,
I can rest assured that there will be a physical outpost on this side of the Atlantic that will maintain that ethos and not get corporatized like some of the others, unfortunately, have had to allow themselves to become.
I mean, that's the problem is we get, you get the, I say, you know, you write the newest person in the community or like, you know, relatively speaking, you know, you can ride that wave of volunteer passion and adrenaline for a while, you know, and then they're like, wait a second, the numbers don't add up.
I need to get sponsors.
I need to do, do, do, do, do.
And then all of a sudden, it doesn't always happen, but it can happen where it just gets diluted.
And it just gets, you know, you miss the mark on the message or the purpose.
Because you need to decide between passion and making a business out of it.
And so that's where I'm hopeful that my, you know, Toonstir doesn't have to be self-supporting.
I don't make any money. I spend quite, quite, quite the contrary. I spend quite a bit of money, um, because I think it's fun. It's important. And, um, it's the long game. It's the, it's the flag in the ground. And so having, having the ability to consult Maggie Mays on just how to run a struggling business is like, that's my day job.
How do you make the numbers work?
And then also having that perspective of keeping to your values
and keeping to what you want this place to be and not losing,
trying not to sacrifice too much.
Does that mean, Mike, that you will be leaving the warm shores of Minneapolis
to the even warmer shores of Austin sometime soon?
I hope to be spending more time there, that's for sure.
So I talk to them regularly.
I was talking to him daily before some of the craziness in Minneapolis really spiked up after the new year.
It's just been far more demanding on my time here in Minneapolis.
But I was talking to him almost daily and now probably weekly.
but there's such a good
Bitcoin community down there
we got him to an event at Bitcoin Park
introduced him to the ZapRite team
and Parker Lewis down there
Andrew and Jack from Bitcoin Park
and Rod, we've all been
going back and forth on email threads
so he's plugged into the group
And it's just a matter of like, it's a matter that's bigger than this space right now.
Like, what are the economics of fiat nightclubs on 6th Street right now?
That's really what it boils down to is like, if nobody's going to 6th Street because they don't feel like it's a safe place to go out.
and that's something that Bitcoin isn't going to fix,
at least on his timeline.
So we got to get through that right now.
Yeah, for sure.
Well, I'm rooting for you, Mike,
and I will tell you if you're successful,
I mean, even if it, success is never guaranteed, right?
And it might take years for something like this to play out.
But if that flag gets planted in the ground there,
I will be there.
will be there in Austin very often hanging out.
I mean, that would be an incredibly powerful flag
if that street gets back to its glory days,
if that venue gets back to its glory days
across the street from Rogan.
I mean, you could go all the way down,
you know, the pipe dream of like,
okay, you know, think big, right?
You don't even need to say it out loud.
just the foot traffic and the exposure that you could get
by doing something in that location.
Pretty cool to think about.
For sure.
All right, Mike, let's, almost fitting,
let's move to your next song,
because I can say I knew all along that it was going to happen.
Nice.
The song is New All Along by Suzanne Santo.
We'll be right back.
I know you feel bothered and you're gonna get far, but it's gonna hurt forever being who you are.
But you knew all along that you weren't like the other ones.
You knew all along that half the time you have to run.
You do all alone
There's love beneath your star
Maybe another level down
From leveling up
She said they're crowning you a queen
Thought you're turning your back
Do you know what I mean?
When I say you're living in lack
But you don't need to suffer, honey
you can just realize
cause you knew all along
you weren't like the other ones
you knew all along
half the time you left to run
you knew all along
that luck would leave you stunned
then you'd be another level down
from leveling up
leveling up
For leveling up
guitar solo
You would have to ride
You knew all along
The luck would leave you stunned
Then you'd be another level down
Leveling down
You're gonna have to level up
You knew I was wrong
That was New All Along by Suzanne Santo Lovely song Mike Another really good brunch choice And Suzanne Santo the name is familiar I think she on Noster correct
Yes.
So she played at the Sats by Southwest
show with Adam Curry,
Boost the Grand Ball Live at Antone's Nightclub in 2024.
and she's into it.
I think she's new.
She also has the funny, like we're talking about with Henry,
where they don't quite know exactly what's going on,
but they're really interested and they love the engagement.
She posts occasionally, and this is her latest single.
but she was in a band called Honey Honey back in the day.
And I had admittedly not made that connection,
but Adam Curry really wanted her to play in Austin.
So he's friends with Suzanne,
and she's been a guest on the Joe Rogan podcast.
She's friends with Joe.
I believe the story is Adam met her at the opening of Rogan's club in Austin.
and that's when they originally met each other and have become good friends.
But she has several singles on Spotify that are over a million streams.
Honey Honey has tens of thousands of monthly listeners,
and her solo work is 30,000 monthly listeners on Spotify.
So she's active in Austin.
She's from Austin.
She's another great asset to have in the community and another one that I just, I want to see all of these people just get zapped like crazy and go tell their friends about it.
Right.
That's where the rubber hits the road as much as, you know, we can scream about how cool this technology is.
Like having the artists tell other artists, that's where the credibility comes from.
Yeah.
another austin connection like it's ominous um no but that's that's really cool uh that uh
she's uh she's on austin and she's willing to stick it through our bad ux
improving ux i should say yeah yeah well it's gotta it's gotta be a shout out to
phantom power for for really coaching her and bringing her through all of the
the tech because she she's into it she's just not going to study it like we do and so somebody's got
to really um step up and our community does that but they really they lead the way in that front
yeah speaking of phantom power mike uh jim jim costello is going to be the my guest on sunday
brunch next oh yeah love that guy he's he's awesome yeah he's so great and he's looking
more and more like David Lynch with each
passing day. I'll certainly talk to him
about that.
But you know Mike, I want to go back to something you just
said.
With
Suzanne Santo, with
I think
what was it, Henry Invisible, right?
Saying primal instead of Noster.
I don't think
that shouldn't matter.
I get it, right? For us who are
so deep in the weeds,
these distinctions make a difference
I think things need to be so easy
that it's almost irrelevant
it all should be buried
yeah, completely buried
musicians here because this is a place for them
to connect with their audience
directly
without any intermediaries
share their music and then get feedback
build that community
which they wouldn't be able to do anywhere else
so whether it's primal
none of that stuff should matter
yeah i think that is a bit of a blind spot in our in our community of like the technology is this
is the main show right for us for you know i'm speaking for the people who are probably on the
live stream because i don't think i don't think i have a plethora of indie musicians tuning in to
this but hey come on man hopefully yeah i mean i hope so but you know we we see the potential of
all the tech and are so excited for it and that's great and that's important but if you if you put
yourself in the shoes of the musician even me as like the cfo of a music company i mean i get pitched
all the time on the latest piece of crap that's going to change the world.
And I just watch these music tech startups come in and fail and promise the world and
under deliver.
And so we need to know what we look and sound like and just how it's not going to be...
It's like Bitcoiners.
We say don't trust Verify.
Well, that's kind of what they're doing.
Yeah.
So, Mike, we've played your list.
As with other episodes, I have a song of my own.
And given your pleasant brunch playlist, Mike, this is going to be a bit of a detour.
Yeah, bring it.
Sometimes you're sitting at brunch and you have the pancakes.
You're feeling a little sleepy and you need a double shot of espresso to wake you up.
I'm not saying this brunch, but there are certain brunches where that happens.
So this band is called Dirt Moon.
And they have this gritty, fuzzy desert rock sound that feels like driving an old muscle car down a dusty road.
That's what it feels like.
Love it.
And the track is called Palanopsia.
And that's actually a medical term for when you see a visual trail after an image has moved away, like a ghost image.
and trust me, this riff is going to stick in your brain
just like that.
So let's clear the cobwebs.
Here is Dirt Moon.
On the love we take
We blame on vultures and snakes
Revenge was all we had
When we were animals
When we were at a ball
Smaller than before
This car can't persist
I see and I feel
Things that can't exist
Smaller than before
This talk can persist
I see and I feel
I know it's true
That if I do this I'm lost forever
And change will destroy my frame
My heart and fists tethered together
No start to one or end to none
This palinopsy I will swallow you whole
Smaller than before this talk can persist
I see and feel things that can't exist
Smaller than before
This corn can persist
I see anger fail
Hey, hey, hey
Smaller than before
This calm can't persist
I see and feel things that can't exist
Smaller than before
This concave process
I'll say in the field
I know it's not real
That was Palenopsia by Dirt Moon.
I love that guitar tone.
It's thick, it's fuzzy,
and it's got just enough attitude to shake up the timeline.
I know a little heavier than what you would expect for Sunday brunch,
but I think Dirt Moon fits the aesthetic perfectly for me.
It's not aggressive.
Yeah, it just feels grounded, right?
It feels analog. It feels human.
I just noticed we're heading from the negative to the positive temps here.
So maybe I'm going to be inspired to go out for a run now after that charge.
Yeah, it is.
You know, the one good thing about being in and I'm in the negatives, Mike.
I'm getting hammered by the storm out here in the mountains, upstate New York.
and I think we're expecting 18 to 20 inches of snow.
And it's a little below zero right now.
But the good thing with zero or negative 10 weather,
it makes you appreciate 10 degree weather.
Yeah.
When it gets to 10 degrees, there's nothing like it.
We were double digit negatives the last two days
and if it gets positive, I'm going for a run.
It's decided.
Yeah.
I just want to remind folks
that I've got 90% boost set up
for this song, Palinopsia
but also all the other songs we've played
so make sure you support
these amazing artists
with your sats
Mike, anything else you want to talk about?
like what's
any updates on TuneStar?
anything more on Austin?
how about Serbia?
that's great
Why don't we talk about Serbia?
I mentioned it on a Pleb Chain Radio episode in passing.
But I'll set it up, Mike, and then you can give your view on it.
So Mike myself a few others Roger 9000 is part of it our friends Edo and Thunder from Bitcoiners from Serbia Aaron of Essex
Aaron of Essex and then Lahav from Scardust.
We are setting up a concert, a Valley for Valley Music Fest in Belgrade.
Is it the 18th of June, Mike, or is it the 19th of June?
Friday is the 18th
that's the concert
or no sorry
the 19th I think
yeah so it's that
Friday and Saturday
of that week
the 18th and 19th
and I'll get the dates right
I'll put those in the show notes
it's the week
right after BTC Prague
the first day is going to be
mostly
Valley for Valley music
it's some
some non-independent artists
like Skardust
playing as well
In fact, Sky Dust is going to be the headliner there.
And a few other big acts and then some of our beloved Valley Field Valley musicians,
especially from that side of the pond, will be there.
And then the next day, a few relevant conversations on that.
So mark your calendars for the 18th and 19th of June, I think.
It's one of those Friday and Saturday of that week.
Yeah, Mike, you've been deep in this as well.
You excited?
Well, very much so.
And for those of you who are going to be over in Europe for BTC Prague or the Bitcoin Film Festival in Poland,
I mean, just go ahead and extend your trip because this is going to be worth it.
I'm pretty excited.
The venue is right on the Danube.
It's like a floating nightclub.
It's a really cool spot.
The name is Zappa.
So there you go, right on brand with Noster and Zappa music.
And it's just an awesome team to be working with over there.
And Avi and having Aaron, you know, Avi, I love what you're doing with bringing all sides of,
Even using the word sides is stupid, but all communities of the value-for-value, independent, sovereign music, whatever we call it.
Open music, Mike. Open mic and open music.
No, that's great. We need something crisp and simple. Open music. There you go.
and just bringing in everybody who's working on the same problem into a into an event like what
what Aaron did with BitFest awesome you know it just it's I want to keep keep that momentum
and and this seems like it's heading in that direction we're going to have
some new faces, some familiar faces, some incredible support.
And just, it's a new, it's new turf, right?
It's not been done in Serbia before in this way.
So I'm thrilled.
Oh, yeah.
And Mike, you just blew my mind by telling me something that did not strike me at all.
That floating venue is called Zapa Bar.
And my mind is always, you know, when I hear Zappa, it's Frank Zappa, but it's Zappa.
It's so perfect for Nostro.
I know.
I was trying to play when we were looking for a name.
I was trying to play with it.
But also, it's like you don't want to.
It's kind of a metaphor of the same conversation we just had of, like, obscuring the technology.
And you don't want to, like, use Zappa's name to turn it into a technology reference, you know.
But it is like, you know, it doesn't seem coincidental to me.
The universe is conspiring to make this real.
This, by the way, Mike, I called you within – this idea was born on a drunken evening in a cigar bar in Prague.
I remember that.
You and Roger.
Roger, by the way, doesn't
he doesn't smoke and he doesn't drink at all
nothing, he's the cleanest
guy you'll meet
he's my man
of course when he hangs out with me
I drag him to all of these things
so he was patiently sitting with me as I was
blowing cigar smoke into his face
and we just came up
with this crazy idea
I must have been about 4 or 5 whiskeys down by then
and we said
we need to do a music fest, let's do it in Serbia
and I said, do you know any Serbians?
I said, yeah, I know.
So two of my good friends are Serbians,
Edo and Thunder,
who happened to be at BTC Prague.
And I messaged Edo
and he was three or four blocks away.
I mean, they're not blocks in Prague,
but whatever it is,
like three or four streets away.
And I said, hey, come here.
And so he and Thunder came
and then we said,
can you help us do this music fest in Serbia?
He said, yes.
And then I called you, Mike.
That's how it played out.
And now we're making it happen.
I remember it well.
Because you were not in Prague that year, but you will be this year.
I was in like a cabin in the Midwest, rural, far from Prague.
But actually, before we wrap up, Mike, you're doing something at BTC Prague.
Do you want to talk about that?
Well, Matthias and Derek Ross and I have been in conversation about helping coordinate and program the music over there.
And it's, I'm lending a hand. So it's, it's absolutely, um, Matthias and the conference
organizers vision. It's their, you know, they, they have made the decision they want to be,
um, featuring music and value for value and independent artists. Um, they're still working
on what direction exactly they want to take it. So I'm, I'm, I'm not going to speak on their behalf,
But I'm excited to go in any capacity that I haven't been to BTC Prague before.
I'm pumped.
I've been to Prague a few times, but it's been over a decade since I was there.
Incredible city, incredible conference.
Matthias and Martin, lovely, lovely people.
I've gotten to become good friends with them over the years just on the conference circuit.
In fact, I was one of the early believers in BTC Prague,
the very first one.
I remember Mathias approaching me.
We met at Bitcoin Amsterdam in 2022,
before BTC Prague was a thing.
And then he approached me and said,
hey, I'm doing a conference in Prague.
And I was like, who are you? Go away.
I don't want to go to Prague.
I don't know who you are.
I think you're trying to steal my Bitcoins.
But we got talking a little bit
and I got to become good friends with both him
and Martin and it was great.
Yeah, it should be a great event.
And if it's too early, that's fine, Mike.
We can talk about it when things materialize a little more.
Yeah, I just don't want to purport that it's my event, right?
I want to let them do the promotion
or at least approve the messaging.
But a conference of that pedigree and their reputation
to make the commitment and decision to dedicate time and resources
and space to music, I'm there for it, right?
Yeah.
It's going to be great.
It's crazy how fast it's coming up.
It's five months out.
It'll come fast.
Yeah.
Lots to look forward to in 2026, though.
Absolutely.
Austin might become a physical embassy, a place where we plant our flag for Bitcoin and Nostra.
There's Serbia happening, Prague.
The Film Fest is going to be great.
Lots to look forward to.
And we probably should talk about Nostra Fabrica and your support of Nostra Nights and that series.
It kicks off a week from tomorrow at Bitcoin Park Nashville.
Oh, yeah. Plug that one, Mike.
Yeah. So this is a much more Noster general event.
Derek Ross, Soapbox, Nos Fabrica, Toonster, myself.
We're bringing a quarterly series to the Nashville Bitcoin Park.
And it starts next Monday.
thanks to the support of Nos Fabrica
we're flying out
JB55 from
Damas, Will, and he's going to
be the
first guest that does a presentation
and we just talk about
all things Noster
whenever you
get me near the stage I'm going to talk about music
when you know it's going to be a little
free form
but obviously we're going to focus on Damas
and
and just the state of not Derek and I are going to talk about the state of
Noster, you know, what the community wants,
connecting the users to the devs and I'm pretty excited about it and thankful
for the support that the park has given us and,
and the space that they've given us to use. So we're not going to be live
streaming it deliberately. We want to focus on the IRL, but we are,
we're recording it so we can clip it and share it at a later date. But
So the Bitcoin Park meetup still has an RSVP link.
So get your tickets.
We're going to have a food truck and some concessions there.
So it's going to be great.
Always good to be at the park.
And Mike, David Strahan, my colleague at Nass Fabrica, is going to be there talking about Web of Trust as well.
He's, yeah, he's...
Maybe an opportunity there, Mike,
to talk about music discovery,
curation using Web of Trust.
100%.
Yeah.
Should be a good event.
Awesome.
Well, thank you, Mike.
This is a great conversation,
great choice of music.
I certainly feel relaxed
and in a very post-brunch mode after that.
I know my song, as they tend to be,
I picked Heartlight, which is symphonic metal, on the first episode.
And I can't remember which one I picked last week.
But that was, oh, I picked Steve Thorne for last week's episode.
And then Dirt Moon for this one.
So my choices, I suspect, will continue not to be particularly brunch friendly.
But that's what you get.
That's what you get.
So thank you, Mike.
And thank you to our live stream audience for listening.
and keeping the chat lively.
It was very lively.
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and this session added a little flavor to your day,
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It's happy Monday through Saturday
Farewell
Thank you.