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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses

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on the intersection of NOSTER and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current

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thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,

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doers, and plebs.

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All right, we are live.

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Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the lightning-laced airwaves. Today is Friday the 19th of December. This is episode 142 of Plep Chain Radio, and we have our year in review.

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Vitor Pamplona, creator of Amethyst and Condoleon, world-renowned mimer and cultural commentator and indeed philosopher, join us to talk about the year that has gone by.

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But first, folks, welcome back, QW. How you been, man?

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You know, holidays are busy, but I'm a little, honestly, I'm a little exhausted, but that's okay.

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I've been productive, really tackling life a bit, and it's working out.

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But, man, it sucks just catching the recordings of Pleb Chain Radio.

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But time is of the essence, and somehow I have to put it into my time.

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So here I am, though. Here I am.

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Good to have you back, buddy.

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I think more importantly, Avi, how is it spreading your wings solo?

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Oh, it's great.

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It is good.

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Finally nothing to hold you back, you know?

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No chains.

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The chains are broken.

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I can be myself, finally.

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You can do a 6 a.m. Eastern time show, no problem.

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Indeed, indeed.

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But folks, don't miss the second edition of our Value for Value music segment coming up later in the show.

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Another independent music banger that's emerged from the messy but energetic human web.

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That is the Noster Commons section when I asked for recommendations.

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So stay tuned for that.

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90% of your boost during the song will go to the artist.

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And all the more reason that if you are listening to the show on Apple or Spotify,

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I would urge you to hit pause and switch over to the Fountain Podcasting app

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and support the Value for Value revolution while you listen.

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And while you're there, we would appreciate it if you hit that subscribe button.

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Your support goes a long way in keeping our mics warm and this podcast ad-free.

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The show is streamed live all over Nostra on any Nostra client that supports streaming,

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such as Amethyst, Nosture, Fountain, Primal, and Nostria.

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And a quick note here, folks.

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July 18, the sequel to my first novel, 24, is now out.

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As is the second edition of 24 itself.

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This is a very recent development.

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The link to purchase both is in the show notes.

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And also, Nosfabrica, the Web of Trust hackathon that is being conducted, or Wattathon,

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that is underway with a fifth group call taking place earlier this week.

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Teams are still forming, and it's not too late to join in.

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You can find out more by going to nosfabrica.com slash Wattathon.

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that's w-o-t-a-t-h-o-n and qw you've had a lot of time to pay attention to bitcoin and

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gnosticulture over the last week or the over the last several weeks as a matter of fact what have

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you witnessed let's be real here we're all here i think this might be i kind of see the writing on

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the wall and i feel like uh you guys are going to surprise me today but uh i'll jump the gun and

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let everyone know it is my third Nostra birthday today. So I appreciate everyone here celebrating

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me. I know as a culture, we like to celebrate birthdays. You know, some people more than others

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if you followed Nostra the last week. But I think reflecting back, you know, I think every year...

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Derek Ross and disbelief.

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Yeah, I think every year we get to this December part, right? And there's an energy about us that's

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kind of just remembers the great hatcheting, like the beginning.

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And you can call us OGs or you can call us, you know, whatever, pioneers at that time when invoicing was happening.

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But it's a special time.

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And it's not just holiday.

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I think it's a special time in general that I think we all just need to kind of reflect back on how far we've come.

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And it's been, what, three years for me.

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Avi, you were probably a couple days ago, huh?

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I was December 15th.

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15th as it turns out kw the same day as kondalorian and our dear friend of the show who we like

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teasing uh but uh derek ross as well yeah so i mean do you feel like that that as well do you

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think it's just kind of a i mean obviously we have these holiday shows or the year-end shows

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but it does kind of coincide with the first time you clicked on the uh astral ninja and the confusion

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began and uh it just it's it's it really gives us especially people that were there in the beginning

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uh something to compare where we're at now uh and how far it is the first time it's i raw dog my

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old nsec into what is that enigma.io which had the suffered from the xss that will never not be

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funny and that will always over time, uh, just, just, just be a better story, right?

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The more Nostra develops into something that more people are using, the more you can just say,

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Hey man, you don't know how, you know, you don't know what it was like back there. You know,

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that's, that's my, that's my culture corner, more of a reflection. Um, I don't need to, um,

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follow the everydays to kind of think about, uh, Nostra as a whole and the community as a whole.

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No, it is a beautiful time. It is the most wonderful time of the year in more ways than one, especially for us Nostrishers. And this is a good segue, QW, into the sermon, which is the year the roots took hold.

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So we've reached the end of 2025, and if you're listening to this, dear gentle pioneers, congratulations, you survived.

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You survived the dark Noster era of Zap farming bots.

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You survived the thousandth proclamation that Noster is dead back in the summer.

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We even held a funeral.

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The tombstone said died of irrelevance.

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And yet, from six feet under, we could still hear the unmistakable ping of a zap.

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In the so-called graveyard, the corpses kept posting via Amethyst, Darmus and Primal,

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kept hopping between clients, chats, relays and tools,

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and somehow hosted music live streams from across the globe.

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You also survived the vibe coding debates, the core versus knots wars,

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and the endless deafening noise of the fiat world collapsing in slow motion outside our windows.

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When we look back at this year through the rearview mirror,

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it would be easy to see a year of hiccups.

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A year when the moon didn't always arrive on schedule,

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when projects full of promise curdled into the inevitable abandonware,

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and when the drama sometimes felt louder than the signal.

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But I want to offer you a different frame.

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I believe 2025 will be remembered not as the year we went mainstream, but as the year we went deep.

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We stopped just posting and started transacting.

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I mean, just last week we saw Eric from Conduit Market remind us that a bazaar is not a platform, but a conversation.

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We saw Aaron of Essex and the new music Nudge unit from a few weeks back

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prove that an artist doesn't need a label, they need an NPUB and a fan with a lightning wallet.

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We saw the digital bleed into the physical.

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From the humid jungles of the Primal House in Costa Rica

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to the golf courses of Vegas and the rain-slicked streets of Manchester for BitFest,

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we realized that while the protocol is code, the network is ours.

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We spent the last few years building the shiny skyscrapers of the city, but 2025?

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2025 was the year we went down into the basement and checked the foundation.

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We poured the concrete. We fixed the plumbing.

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And yes, plumbing is unsexy. Plumbing is messy, but plumbing is what allows a civilization to live.

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The ups and downs of this year were just settling of the soil.

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The loose dirt is washing away.

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The speculators and the tourists who came for the quick flip are bored and leaving.

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Good. Let them go.

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What remains is bedrock.

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What remains are the roots.

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So as we look towards 2026, I'm not going to promise you that this is the year of mass adoption.

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I don't care about mass adoption.

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I care about true adoption.

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I see a year ahead when we stop asking for permission,

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when the tools we build in the bear market of engagement this year finally turn on.

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Where finding a job, funding a film, selling soap,

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or discovering a song happens entirely within a loop that no bank can touch and no censor can silence.

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The storm outside is going to get louder. We know that.

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The fiat world is not going to go quietly into the night.

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But inside the fortress we built, the fire is lit.

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The pantry is stocked.

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The music is playing.

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And the band is getting paid in real time.

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The roots have taken hold, my dear pioneers.

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Now we grow And with that it is time to welcome Corn Delorean and Vitor back to Pleb Chain Radio Welcome gents Hello hello Good afternoon

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Avi, is Corn Delorean good for our ratings? I feel like, you know, he might be a divisive

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little Lego man sometimes. Everything's good for Pleb Chain Radio.

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That is true. That is true. So, folks, what we decided to do for today's episode is all of us,

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QW, I don't know if you've had the time to do this, but the rest of us have prepared. No,

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I'm sure you have. We prepared a list of fives, five things that we thought went well in 2025,

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five things that could have gone better, and five things that we're looking forward to in

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the year ahead in 2026.

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And we'll go through them one by one,

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maybe jumping categories

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and having, hopefully, vigorous discussions

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over each one.

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So, Vitor, I will put you on the spot.

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Oh, I start. Okay.

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Sure.

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So, I guess the five things that worked great.

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We'll start with one.

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Let's start with one, yes.

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And I do sincerely believe this.

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I think our signers are like the heroes

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of this entire community.

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because they just work.

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You know, it has been a while that I haven't found issues or bugs

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or difficulties operating signers in general.

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But specifically like Amber and Albi and all the extensions out there,

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they seem to be just working fine.

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And clients seem to have an easy time integrating them.

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I think all the AI frameworks that showed up last year or so,

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facilitating some of that development.

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But frankly, it just works.

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And it's so good to see it.

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It's something that we are doing for,

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as an open source project,

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as some of us, for the fun of it,

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it just stays there and it's stable

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and it kind of serves as this foundation

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for the entire ecosystem.

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QW, agree or?

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Yeah.

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I agree.

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but it's like isn't that cool like it's just it's funny how human nature is where we we don't even

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think about signers anymore uh because they just work right it's like we all think about the bugs

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or like these things that just need to fit get fixed and then they get fixed you never think

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about it again just like yeah you just move along uh how how often do you think about your signer

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abby i don't i think and i think that is vtor's point yeah yeah and it's a really good point right

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It's like these types of things, they work when they're quiet and ubiquitous.

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If you're talking about signers, that probably is not a good thing.

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Well, except for like the remote, like the hardware devices, you know, we've all want to see, you know, and there is a couple products on the market.

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I've never had one in my hand, and I don't know if you have, Vitor, but is there something that you can kind of hold your in-pub or your in-sec on off-chain or whatever?

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Not yet, but there are enough people working on it that I think the future is bright for that field,

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either through a regular physical device that we were signing for you

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or through something like Frost that is able to split your signatures in many keys

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and just protect yourself better than a regular signer of today.

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Korn?

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Well, yeah, so what would it take to, or is it even possible, you know, for all of us who basically created our key in an app like Domus or Primal or Amethyst or, you know, any, whatever our app of choice, you know, that app already has our key.

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I know mine has been there for, you know, three years now.

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Is it possible to use that app as a signer?

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I've seen some people post about that, but I don't understand the technical side of it, what's possible or feasible.

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It seems like that would be easy if I was going to post something on a web client, if it could somehow ping my mobile app and I could just approve it right there.

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Yeah, and frankly, that I think is the goal, not only for Amber on Android, but we've got to figure out this on iOS too.

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some way that your phone can just hold your keys

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and your desktop doesn't need to have the keys anymore.

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So you don't keep transferring the NSAC

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between the phone and the desktop back and forth.

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Or you don't need to store it in some other way

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to transfer over from one device to another,

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which is one of the security points,

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the security risks we have today.

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But if you're using Frost, for instance,

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it's just the same key.

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You just keep using the same key.

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what the system does, it splits the key in many parts

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and it sends a different key for different devices.

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And in the end, you have your Frost signer somewhere secured

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so that when a new message from any one of these apps that you use shows up,

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the Frost signer itself kind of confirms your transaction

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and offers the rest of the key to create the signature.

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So it splits it up and then merges them back together.

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when it's time to sign.

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So then you don't need to change.

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But there are other protocols that are coming up

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that do require us changing the NSAC that we have today,

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which will trigger different discussions in the future

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of what is reputation?

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If you can't pass your reputation from one key to another,

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can we do something about it?

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Because rotating keys is just like starting from scratch on Nuster.

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So you don't really get any benefits from your previous key.

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But maybe the Web of Trust tools that we are seeing underdeveloped right now can help us with that.

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Yeah.

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So, Korn, let's have your item.

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What is one of the things on your list that you thought went well in 2025?

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So the first thing that came to mind that I wrote down is I think that by and large, the popular apps, and we can each probably define that list, but there are a few standout names anytime Noster comes up in terms of app names.

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and I would say that in the big picture probably all of those apps got better some of them a lot

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better during 2025 and you know we've seen several features integrated live streaming is kind of a

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one that I've seen more ubiquitous across some of the apps and that's a big thing online especially

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when it comes to content, content creation, live streaming is huge. So, but just, you know,

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the stability of the apps, the, the kind of polish on some of the features that maybe were

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a little rough before, you know, they continue to get better. But, but I think in general,

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the apps have all gotten a lot better. I mean, especially compared to, you know, two and three

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years ago when some were non-existent, you know, some were just starting out, but, but I think this

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year, we've seen some just solidifying of Noster's usability. So I'm just going to, you

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dovetail into one of the points I had, Korn, especially around live streaming. I really think

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2025 was the year live streaming stood on its own on Noster and really shown in many cases. Now,

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Kieran, the creator of Zap.Stream, might disagree. The poor man has been huddled in a bunker

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valiantly fighting off denial-of-service attacks for weeks on end.

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I think his phone is even getting hit now, you know, his home phone.

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His voicemails, he's under a barrage, and God bless him.

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But out of that rather unfortunate set of events came resilience.

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There is Zap.StreamCore that anyone can self-host and run if they so choose.

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Now there are multiple mirrors to Zap.stream.

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And we've seen so many apps and clients that have integrated NIP 53 live streaming, which, by the way, we have the author of NIP 53 with us, Vitor.

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Sorry about that.

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But so many of them.

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No, but that's what, I mean, it's, so just as an example, I was at BitFest at the music event in Manchester about two or three weeks ago.

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And that was one event where Nostor worked flawlessly, where all of the music was streaming.

242
00:19:55,933 --> 00:19:57,693
And we were testing multiple clients.

243
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There were five clients.

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There was Primal, Amethyst, Nostor, Fountain, and Nostria.

245
00:20:05,393 --> 00:20:07,373
These are the five clients that we tested there.

246
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And there were multiple people zapping from each of these clients remotely as well.

247
00:20:12,613 --> 00:20:14,853
And that was remarkable to watch, right?

248
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It's a show towards the end of the year that demonstrated this culmination of live streaming.

249
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Despite, yes, I understand Karen went through a lot of difficulty with the denial of service attacks.

250
00:20:30,153 --> 00:20:33,353
But despite that, I thought live streaming is one that stood out.

251
00:20:33,953 --> 00:20:37,493
But Vitor, any comments on Codalorian's general point?

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00:20:38,453 --> 00:20:43,033
Yeah, live streaming was on my list as well of things that just worked this year.

253
00:20:43,033 --> 00:20:56,525
even though we did have some issues here and there on our own streams But it has been there and it has been working not only as a provider of content into Zapstream

254
00:20:56,945 --> 00:21:05,125
but the clients themselves are able to display streaming with chat, with Zaps, with everything we need

255
00:21:05,125 --> 00:21:08,805
in a way that they all interoperate with one another.

256
00:21:09,065 --> 00:21:14,045
And we did see a few bugs here and there, but frankly, it works.

257
00:21:14,045 --> 00:21:20,625
And it's actually, as a software engineer, it surprises me that it actually works.

258
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Because no one is using a common library for anything.

259
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We're all coding from scratch.

260
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And yet, it just works.

261
00:21:31,985 --> 00:21:33,725
There's no Bitcoin core on Nostrum.

262
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So it's like people are just coming together somehow via code.

263
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And the thing just works.

264
00:21:41,545 --> 00:21:44,205
and we figure out the language and we have our nips.

265
00:21:45,605 --> 00:21:48,785
So that is actually quite impressive to see.

266
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Those of us who have been out in product land for a while,

267
00:21:52,985 --> 00:21:55,185
we know how hard is interoperability,

268
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especially in the corporate world.

269
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And here we are in the open source without much money

270
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and things just seem to work fine.

271
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In the last year, Avi, during our show,

272
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I mean, I think I almost wanted to say, I said it the year before, I wanted to see that cohesion, that the interoperability of these live streams.

273
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When we go live and you can be on five different clients, doesn't matter, and you can see it live.

274
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I just think that that harnesses the power of Noster.

275
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And it's one of those things where people coming from a legacy sites, they can't grasp that concept, but they can actually see it.

276
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And it's powerful.

277
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And also the stuff that Fountain's doing.

278
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I mean, if you go to fountain.fm now, their UI, their UX, everything is just really clean.

279
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It looks like you should be paying to subscribe to this.

280
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It's just a well-done website.

281
00:22:59,765 --> 00:23:01,925
But it's also in the background, a Nostra client.

282
00:23:02,465 --> 00:23:08,105
So I love to see the bridge, the merge of all these services come together.

283
00:23:08,105 --> 00:23:11,885
and the fact that you can just broadcast to all of them.

284
00:23:12,925 --> 00:23:17,385
It's one of those wish list things that come true

285
00:23:17,385 --> 00:23:20,605
and you're still kind of like, wow.

286
00:23:20,605 --> 00:23:23,085
And I want to add to this too.

287
00:23:24,045 --> 00:23:27,725
What else would you want to see from live streaming

288
00:23:27,725 --> 00:23:30,805
now that we're on the topic?

289
00:23:32,185 --> 00:23:34,645
If you can add some maybe functionality

290
00:23:34,645 --> 00:23:40,405
or something else in 2026, where do you go from here,

291
00:23:40,465 --> 00:23:42,625
short of bug fixes and things like that?

292
00:23:42,865 --> 00:23:45,845
Is there anything specific, any feature, anything?

293
00:23:48,305 --> 00:23:49,365
I'll jump in.

294
00:23:50,485 --> 00:23:56,785
I would like to see the ability to go live from your mobile client.

295
00:23:57,645 --> 00:24:00,705
That's going to be up to each app developer to decide

296
00:24:00,705 --> 00:24:04,205
if they want to support that feature or not.

297
00:24:04,645 --> 00:24:14,585
But I think that would be helpful, especially for some of the more popular clients, if you could just go live directly from your app.

298
00:24:14,685 --> 00:24:16,345
I think that would be pretty huge.

299
00:24:18,465 --> 00:24:20,585
I thought you were going to say that you want the gift button.

300
00:24:21,305 --> 00:24:22,245
Oh, that was number two.

301
00:24:23,245 --> 00:24:30,605
That reminds me, Corinne, if you can do that, that whole idea of what was it?

302
00:24:31,365 --> 00:24:31,945
Either way.

303
00:24:31,945 --> 00:24:41,885
If you're like, let's say, according to Lauren, if you're in this magical place where you actually played guitar and you sang, you know, you can just prop your phone up live stream right there.

304
00:24:42,445 --> 00:24:47,145
And you're your own personal, you know, broadcasting musician.

305
00:24:47,685 --> 00:24:49,725
I think that'd be pretty sweet.

306
00:24:50,125 --> 00:24:51,285
I think it would be pretty awesome.

307
00:24:51,405 --> 00:24:52,905
You know, there there is the one app.

308
00:24:52,985 --> 00:24:53,865
I haven't tried it.

309
00:24:53,865 --> 00:24:55,565
I think I called it Street Seat.

310
00:24:55,765 --> 00:24:57,125
It was what I wanted to see.

311
00:24:57,285 --> 00:24:58,765
Street Seat or something like that.

312
00:24:58,765 --> 00:25:04,765
Like basically you're sitting on the street watching someone perform as they're broadcasting on Noster.

313
00:25:06,105 --> 00:25:08,925
No, I was thinking of, I like that name.

314
00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:10,925
I was thinking of, I think it's called Shosho.

315
00:25:11,205 --> 00:25:12,345
I don't know if I'm saying that right.

316
00:25:12,465 --> 00:25:20,665
But I haven't tried that one just because I'm very apprehensive about putting my key into any new apps.

317
00:25:20,725 --> 00:25:21,445
I'm sure it's fine.

318
00:25:22,565 --> 00:25:23,345
Maybe it's not.

319
00:25:23,405 --> 00:25:24,005
But I'm sure it is.

320
00:25:24,005 --> 00:25:25,145
A lot of people seem to use it.

321
00:25:25,545 --> 00:25:26,445
It has a nice interface.

322
00:25:26,445 --> 00:25:28,905
I tried it with just a throwaway key.

323
00:25:29,865 --> 00:25:35,965
But that kind of goes back to the earlier conversation about signers and key management and everything.

324
00:25:39,305 --> 00:25:48,665
But yeah, being able to go live from the app that you're already using, that you've already given your key, if it supported that feature, would be very helpful.

325
00:25:48,665 --> 00:25:51,205
and I think both

326
00:25:51,205 --> 00:25:52,985
Kiran and Hazard I believe

327
00:25:52,985 --> 00:25:55,265
are working on ways to go

328
00:25:55,265 --> 00:25:57,325
live without having to

329
00:25:57,325 --> 00:25:59,105
have the infrastructure we have behind

330
00:25:59,105 --> 00:26:01,065
Zap.stream today meaning you know

331
00:26:01,065 --> 00:26:02,265
their own servers and so on

332
00:26:02,265 --> 00:26:04,325
so you would just upload

333
00:26:04,325 --> 00:26:06,685
segments of your live stream

334
00:26:06,685 --> 00:26:08,965
to a Blossom server and

335
00:26:08,965 --> 00:26:11,045
a little file that links them all together

336
00:26:11,045 --> 00:26:13,185
for the receiver. There are proposals

337
00:26:13,185 --> 00:26:15,165
out there, it's coming, it's going to be

338
00:26:15,165 --> 00:26:16,565
hard to make it work

339
00:26:16,565 --> 00:26:22,565
But if we can do that, man, we are into something really powerful.

340
00:26:24,065 --> 00:26:26,025
And then a GIF button.

341
00:26:26,525 --> 00:26:27,385
And then a GIF button.

342
00:26:27,705 --> 00:26:29,145
At least on the chat, right?

343
00:26:29,225 --> 00:26:29,505
Come on.

344
00:26:30,105 --> 00:26:34,225
Well, was 2025 a big success with Blossom servers in general?

345
00:26:35,925 --> 00:26:36,485
Vitor?

346
00:26:36,965 --> 00:26:42,585
Yeah, so Blossom is also in my list because it seems to just work.

347
00:26:42,585 --> 00:26:48,885
And I haven't heard anything breaking in the servers themselves.

348
00:26:50,105 --> 00:26:53,105
There were, in the beginning, some images disappearing here and there.

349
00:26:53,525 --> 00:26:55,665
But I think that all got fixed.

350
00:26:56,185 --> 00:27:04,765
And nowadays, it's just refining the protocol and making sure people can mirror images from one side to another.

351
00:27:05,585 --> 00:27:08,065
But that alone is a big win.

352
00:27:08,065 --> 00:27:15,245
Take a moment and give me some layman description of a Blossom server for people listening.

353
00:27:15,665 --> 00:27:20,185
So a Blossom server essentially stores files, any file you want.

354
00:27:21,125 --> 00:27:28,225
It can be a public file, like a public picture that you want to show to everybody on your Twitter clone kind of thing,

355
00:27:28,645 --> 00:27:35,885
or a private file that is encrypted and you want to send to your friend on a DM, for instance.

356
00:27:36,465 --> 00:27:39,145
So the server itself just holds the file.

357
00:27:39,625 --> 00:27:42,205
It doesn't have the password for the file in those cases.

358
00:27:42,965 --> 00:27:44,445
And the password goes in the message.

359
00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:49,205
So the client on the other side can take the password from the GM

360
00:27:49,205 --> 00:27:51,525
and then use it to decrypt the image.

361
00:27:52,325 --> 00:27:57,165
But the image itself cannot be saved on relays because it's too big.

362
00:27:57,485 --> 00:28:00,645
So we have this extra infrastructure for Noster

363
00:28:00,645 --> 00:28:05,705
that just allows us to post any content, pictures, videos, PDFs,

364
00:28:05,705 --> 00:28:06,585
whatever you want to put there.

365
00:28:07,485 --> 00:28:12,285
And in a way that the link to the name of the file

366
00:28:12,285 --> 00:28:16,385
refers to the hash of all the contents.

367
00:28:16,945 --> 00:28:18,345
So if the file changes,

368
00:28:18,505 --> 00:28:21,465
meaning if the server is playing some tricks on us,

369
00:28:22,005 --> 00:28:23,305
we will figure that out

370
00:28:23,305 --> 00:28:25,245
because we can just check against the hash

371
00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:29,985
and we can make sure nobody is fooling with us

372
00:28:29,985 --> 00:28:31,925
from the server perspective.

373
00:28:32,065 --> 00:28:33,105
Because as you might know,

374
00:28:33,505 --> 00:28:35,345
as soon as you send a file to any server,

375
00:28:35,345 --> 00:28:38,025
out there and you don't trust that server,

376
00:28:38,705 --> 00:28:41,385
they might, I don't know, put an ad

377
00:28:41,385 --> 00:28:44,765
before they show you your own image, right?

378
00:28:44,805 --> 00:28:46,765
So they can convert things around

379
00:28:46,765 --> 00:28:47,765
and they can do a few things

380
00:28:47,765 --> 00:28:50,185
that are not really nice to be done,

381
00:28:50,765 --> 00:28:52,345
but because it's their image,

382
00:28:52,425 --> 00:28:55,105
you send it to them, they could in the end.

383
00:28:55,105 --> 00:28:59,265
So Blossom has some checks and balances on that side

384
00:28:59,265 --> 00:29:01,545
that truly make it unique to us.

385
00:29:01,845 --> 00:29:02,945
And it's super easy to find,

386
00:29:03,045 --> 00:29:04,985
it's super easy to display on Noster.

387
00:29:05,345 --> 00:29:15,705
And if we can add ZapStream, which is just this live stream capability to it, that would be a game changing not only for Nostrad, but for everybody else.

388
00:29:15,865 --> 00:29:21,585
Because as you might be aware, it's hard to stream on the web from a desktop.

389
00:29:21,705 --> 00:29:22,385
You have to have a server.

390
00:29:22,485 --> 00:29:25,425
You have to have some infrastructure in place to do this well.

391
00:29:26,185 --> 00:29:28,425
If Blossom works, we don't need any of that.

392
00:29:28,425 --> 00:29:31,985
as

393
00:29:31,985 --> 00:29:35,245
irony would have it

394
00:29:35,245 --> 00:29:35,825
Vitor

395
00:29:35,825 --> 00:29:37,185
was that layman

396
00:29:37,185 --> 00:29:38,985
are we offline

397
00:29:38,985 --> 00:29:41,725
my grandma is listening

398
00:29:41,725 --> 00:29:43,305
her eyes just crossed

399
00:29:43,305 --> 00:29:47,945
well done though

400
00:29:47,945 --> 00:29:51,125
it works except when it doesn't

401
00:29:51,125 --> 00:29:51,725
yeah

402
00:29:51,725 --> 00:29:53,285
exactly

403
00:29:53,285 --> 00:29:55,565
I think this is a good point

404
00:29:55,565 --> 00:29:57,585
talking about things that don't work

405
00:29:57,585 --> 00:30:00,685
to go to the first item on the list.

406
00:30:00,745 --> 00:30:01,845
And maybe we start with you, Korn.

407
00:30:03,045 --> 00:30:05,365
What could have gone better in 2025?

408
00:30:07,665 --> 00:30:08,765
He's going to say gifts.

409
00:30:10,345 --> 00:30:12,685
No, that's my looking forward to 2026.

410
00:30:13,205 --> 00:30:13,445
Always.

411
00:30:16,385 --> 00:30:17,545
What could have gone better?

412
00:30:18,665 --> 00:30:20,805
So I'll just go in the order I have it here.

413
00:30:20,805 --> 00:30:24,585
The first item I wrote was just user growth in general.

414
00:30:24,585 --> 00:30:30,385
felt stagnant, maybe even a little bit of decline, losing some existing users.

415
00:30:31,205 --> 00:30:40,625
And, you know, that's the severity of how bad that is, I guess, depends on the perspective you take.

416
00:30:40,885 --> 00:30:46,665
I liked what you mentioned at the beginning, Avi, that, how did you say, you're not interested in,

417
00:30:47,325 --> 00:30:52,325
you're not interested in, oh, I even quoted it, can't find it right now.

418
00:30:52,325 --> 00:30:56,885
Basically, you're not interested in more user growth, but true user growth,

419
00:30:56,885 --> 00:30:59,225
something along those lines.

420
00:30:59,225 --> 00:31:05,325
And so I think that's a good perspective to keep, that we want real growth, not just numbers.

421
00:31:05,325 --> 00:31:25,658
But I do feel like my timeline has kind of stagnated a bit And I try to follow new users as I come across them or as we interact with each other I try to clean out you know in pubs that are no longer active you know or just overly noisy

422
00:31:25,658 --> 00:31:31,218
But I kind of feel like there's a little bit of stagnation in the user growth side of things.

423
00:31:33,458 --> 00:31:34,078
All right.

424
00:31:34,238 --> 00:31:36,758
Victor, do you want to respond to what Khan just said?

425
00:31:36,758 --> 00:31:49,618
yeah we have seen a drop on user um user ratios and so on i don't think that too too seriously um

426
00:31:49,618 --> 00:31:55,618
i do think a lot of the people that were here in the earlier years were just experimenting around

427
00:31:55,618 --> 00:32:01,478
anyway so they're still trying to figure out if nostor is their home or not and so on so dropping

428
00:32:01,478 --> 00:32:08,798
off is kind of normal for a product at our stage. But I also want to make sure we don't

429
00:32:08,798 --> 00:32:15,458
dismiss that as something that is happening. We still have a lot of work to do, and we

430
00:32:15,458 --> 00:32:21,098
still have to get our apps to actually do what our users want them to do. And this has

431
00:32:21,098 --> 00:32:27,678
been harder than what I thought it would be. But we are getting there. And like I said in

432
00:32:27,678 --> 00:32:29,718
the intro, we are working on the pipes,

433
00:32:30,018 --> 00:32:33,738
and this year was all about our infrastructure behind the scenes.

434
00:32:34,638 --> 00:32:40,358
And I think this year we have seen a new emphasis

435
00:32:40,358 --> 00:32:44,418
on the other stuff that Nostor could do.

436
00:32:44,878 --> 00:32:49,078
And so it's not only about Twitter clients anymore.

437
00:32:50,598 --> 00:32:52,778
And I'm very happy about it,

438
00:32:52,798 --> 00:32:56,038
even though I'm the biggest Twitter clone clients out there.

439
00:32:56,038 --> 00:33:03,778
it's just very good to see that Noster can be more than just like a Twitter interface.

440
00:33:10,438 --> 00:33:15,718
I was thinking about that like two days ago, and it just always blows me away

441
00:33:15,718 --> 00:33:20,958
because you just always want to cling on to Noster as just a social app.

442
00:33:20,958 --> 00:33:35,878
You know, it's something where and it's almost got to the point like, you know, you look at all the disruption in society, even in the Bitcoin culture where we were talking about, you know, knots versus core.

443
00:33:36,358 --> 00:33:41,558
And I mean, just a lot of there's a lot of division, I would say, in the past like six months.

444
00:33:41,558 --> 00:33:47,098
But you start to kind of see, you know, Nostra was always kind of that safe space on the social side.

445
00:33:47,518 --> 00:33:49,478
And you kind of see it kind of overpour.

446
00:33:49,478 --> 00:33:59,198
But, you know, obviously it's whatever's happening on the other social sites is far worse than the conversations that are happening on Noster.

447
00:33:59,438 --> 00:34:03,698
So it's kind of like, I don't know, it just it's amazing.

448
00:34:03,838 --> 00:34:12,098
I was looking at Noster yesterday and the conversations that developers are having now is in that web of trust.

449
00:34:12,098 --> 00:34:17,398
It's in that blossom. It's in these databases or these like high level developer tools.

450
00:34:17,398 --> 00:34:23,538
whereas like three years ago it was, oh, we just got zaps.

451
00:34:23,538 --> 00:34:28,658
We just got, you know, we can now, I mean, we don't have GIFs yet,

452
00:34:28,918 --> 00:34:35,958
but it's something where we're looking at these features as a social aspect,

453
00:34:36,378 --> 00:34:41,878
a social app aspect, whereas now we're starting to see it as this bigger picture,

454
00:34:42,238 --> 00:34:44,958
more back-end type of Noster.

455
00:34:45,718 --> 00:34:46,858
Do you agree with that?

456
00:34:47,398 --> 00:34:53,378
Yeah, and it builds a different social network than just what Twitter clients could do.

457
00:34:54,278 --> 00:35:06,478
I think we all know from Twitter itself and the other networks that the layout of a Twitter client can only go so far.

458
00:35:06,478 --> 00:35:08,158
I said this multiple times in the past.

459
00:35:08,598 --> 00:35:14,398
Among the social networks we have from Big Tech today, Twitter is the smallest one.

460
00:35:15,178 --> 00:35:16,178
And it's for a reason.

461
00:35:16,178 --> 00:35:30,138
The type of people that it attracts is heavily influenced by their abilities to become an influencer in the platform or their abilities to get enough followers to make their voices heard and so on.

462
00:35:31,158 --> 00:35:40,758
So for most of the normal folks out there that just want something to have fun of and spend some time in something fun, that's not the case.

463
00:35:40,758 --> 00:35:43,238
Maybe a chat platform or chat layout is better.

464
00:35:43,238 --> 00:35:50,538
Maybe something close to Facebook or to Instagram or to TikTok is better.

465
00:35:51,138 --> 00:36:00,358
And we need to develop those clients because the social web that each client will develop will strengthen Nostrad itself.

466
00:36:00,838 --> 00:36:09,898
And our keys will be more powerful because of this, you know, inter-social layer connections that we will see on Nostrad.

467
00:36:09,898 --> 00:36:11,678
And that's extremely powerful for all of us.

468
00:36:11,678 --> 00:36:17,378
until now, like the Twitter like clients were the backbone,

469
00:36:17,578 --> 00:36:19,098
the social backbone of Noster.

470
00:36:19,838 --> 00:36:22,018
And gladly that is not the case anymore.

471
00:36:27,498 --> 00:36:29,178
Avi, you're a backend guy.

472
00:36:29,938 --> 00:36:31,418
You got anything to add to that?

473
00:36:32,758 --> 00:36:33,938
No, I don't.

474
00:36:36,238 --> 00:36:39,058
I don't, but I do have,

475
00:36:39,058 --> 00:36:45,738
I'm just looking at the list of things that could have gone better.

476
00:36:46,458 --> 00:36:47,398
I'm sorry to interrupt.

477
00:36:47,478 --> 00:36:50,778
Can I just chime in real quick to piggyback on Vitor?

478
00:36:51,598 --> 00:36:56,178
Because I was kind of thinking too, not just the app design,

479
00:36:56,178 --> 00:37:01,018
but Noster, I mean, maybe it is the app design.

480
00:37:01,118 --> 00:37:01,398
I don't know.

481
00:37:01,638 --> 00:37:07,778
But I have found in my own experience that the types of social interactions

482
00:37:07,778 --> 00:37:19,178
the types of content interactions that are incentivized on Noster are a little bit different.

483
00:37:19,278 --> 00:37:25,898
There's a different angle than the ad-driven, algo-driven social medias.

484
00:37:26,858 --> 00:37:33,818
And I think that there's some psychology in there that is beyond what I can put into words.

485
00:37:33,818 --> 00:37:54,298
But the design of Noster itself as a protocol, I think, and the apps, the way that they implement it, people come here with, come to Noster with a set of expectations that has been shaped by years of these other social platforms.

486
00:37:55,198 --> 00:38:02,438
And Noster does not incentivize those same types of interactions and the same type of content.

487
00:38:02,438 --> 00:38:08,018
And, you know, I don't know if that explains some of the fluctuation in user growth.

488
00:38:09,158 --> 00:38:11,158
People come with one set of expectations.

489
00:38:11,158 --> 00:38:12,518
They find something different.

490
00:38:12,938 --> 00:38:13,558
They leave.

491
00:38:13,898 --> 00:38:16,778
Or they come and they love it and they stay.

492
00:38:16,958 --> 00:38:19,798
So I think there's some relationship there.

493
00:38:21,138 --> 00:38:29,538
You know, one thing that is still surprising to me is how do we still don't have an ad-powered client?

494
00:38:29,538 --> 00:38:34,258
because at this point it should have arised.

495
00:38:34,858 --> 00:38:39,178
Like somebody should have thought about doing the same thing Amethyst does

496
00:38:39,178 --> 00:38:40,978
with a few ads in between.

497
00:38:41,798 --> 00:38:46,418
And I know a little about the ad revenue side of things

498
00:38:46,418 --> 00:38:50,038
to know that whoever does this will make some money

499
00:38:50,038 --> 00:38:54,638
because the ads, you can complain as much as you want,

500
00:38:54,638 --> 00:38:56,138
but they do pay, right?

501
00:38:56,198 --> 00:38:58,978
So if you get a developer that is interested in just money,

502
00:38:59,538 --> 00:39:03,558
it could have happened or it should have happened already.

503
00:39:04,118 --> 00:39:07,858
And it didn't for reasons that I cannot come towards.

504
00:39:07,998 --> 00:39:09,938
But this is what we have.

505
00:39:10,018 --> 00:39:11,538
I think this is the power of Nostro.

506
00:39:11,538 --> 00:39:17,678
It keeps these types of, I don't want to call them dishonest platforms,

507
00:39:17,878 --> 00:39:21,798
but less convenient platforms for users in check.

508
00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:25,118
And hopefully we can keep that movement going.

509
00:39:25,118 --> 00:39:33,718
well i think it's a reflection on the nasty user base right i think we developers are probably

510
00:39:33,718 --> 00:39:40,458
scared of launching yeah anyone who's even had the thought uh is going to think twice before

511
00:39:40,458 --> 00:39:46,398
launching an ad power platform most likely because of the pushback they're going to receive from the

512
00:39:46,398 --> 00:40:05,278
Well, we have a Puritan, whether it's the culture of the value for value or open source FOSS, it's very contra to an ad powered thing that everyone's running from, I suppose.

513
00:40:05,278 --> 00:40:11,238
And understand that it's just not the best way to do it.

514
00:40:11,298 --> 00:40:13,218
So why start there when you're in this new frontier?

515
00:40:13,218 --> 00:40:16,698
I don't know.

516
00:40:18,078 --> 00:40:22,018
Yeah, my surprise is like, yeah, I understand that, but like no one?

517
00:40:22,298 --> 00:40:23,138
Not a single one?

518
00:40:23,218 --> 00:40:23,418
Yeah.

519
00:40:23,438 --> 00:40:24,778
Like we have 300 clients.

520
00:40:25,918 --> 00:40:30,598
Like it should have happened already and maybe still will.

521
00:40:30,898 --> 00:40:31,278
Who knows?

522
00:40:33,458 --> 00:40:41,118
And I frankly like I wish it did because I need to see somebody else

523
00:40:41,118 --> 00:40:47,158
challenging us with the money that an ad-powered platform would bring that person.

524
00:40:48,018 --> 00:40:48,538
You know what I mean?

525
00:40:48,998 --> 00:40:54,178
If somebody can come in and get in revenues, in nostril revenues, about, you know, five

526
00:40:54,178 --> 00:40:56,378
to ten million a year, that's a big team.

527
00:40:56,838 --> 00:40:59,998
And they can crush us on just development side.

528
00:41:00,858 --> 00:41:06,898
And if that kills the rest of us, you know, why are we even working here?

529
00:41:06,898 --> 00:41:11,538
If that is what ends us all, we need to know it right away.

530
00:41:13,478 --> 00:41:16,998
I think it will never kill us, but we need the test.

531
00:41:17,198 --> 00:41:25,998
We need the challenge in our face to actually prove that an ad-based platform for Noster is a bad idea.

532
00:41:26,398 --> 00:41:34,158
It's very similar to how the initial Bitcoin fork, the blockchain wars, block size wars happened in Bitcoin.

533
00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:39,938
We had to have this other thing that proved to us that the block size is important.

534
00:41:39,971 --> 00:41:41,611
And one of them won.

535
00:41:42,451 --> 00:41:49,731
But, you know, now we have evidence to say that, you know, that that worked and this other thing did not work.

536
00:41:50,031 --> 00:41:52,851
And we can move forward with the thing that actually worked.

537
00:41:53,571 --> 00:41:57,671
Until we have that challenge, we're not really safe on us today.

538
00:41:57,671 --> 00:42:05,991
I want to see that challenge happening and happening to the best they can to kind of kill us all, to see if we can actually survive.

539
00:42:05,991 --> 00:42:12,791
well and and even having the option to turn ads on uh whereas you you you know we have micro

540
00:42:12,791 --> 00:42:18,511
payments we have wallets set up to where you can actually receive a you know a micro payment for

541
00:42:18,511 --> 00:42:25,191
even seeing that ad uh it's just something i mean i've seen that in other uh other apps or other

542
00:42:25,191 --> 00:42:31,511
you know on the internet or you know you you just click through enough of them or i think even like

543
00:42:31,511 --> 00:42:33,591
I don't know, Coinbase or something.

544
00:42:33,911 --> 00:42:34,871
God forbid Coinbase.

545
00:42:35,051 --> 00:42:40,191
But if you watch certain videos, they'd give you shit coins.

546
00:42:40,891 --> 00:42:44,091
So it's just something that it seems like there's something there.

547
00:42:44,091 --> 00:42:47,971
And having that ability to turn on and off is part of the big,

548
00:42:47,971 --> 00:42:50,571
big core competency I think we have in Noster.

549
00:42:51,191 --> 00:42:54,111
But yeah, I mean, it seems like there's definitely opportunity

550
00:42:54,111 --> 00:42:55,391
and it doesn't have to be forced.

551
00:42:55,391 --> 00:43:06,151
so next generation amethyst are we we ready no no no no no ads with us i see where we're going here

552
00:43:06,151 --> 00:43:13,371
yeah yeah he's he's he's warming us up grease in the pipes yeah yeah one of the one of the items

553
00:43:13,371 --> 00:43:20,331
actually uh put together in my list was on the jumbles side i don't know if you guys noticed but

554
00:43:20,331 --> 00:43:25,131
Jumbo, this client for web, has a lot of forks.

555
00:43:26,511 --> 00:43:30,171
And this is amazing to see to me, because I wanted that to happen to Amethyst,

556
00:43:30,251 --> 00:43:31,191
and it never actually did.

557
00:43:31,351 --> 00:43:34,631
We got like three or four forks on our lifetime.

558
00:43:35,731 --> 00:43:39,571
But if forking is good, so if we can get that client,

559
00:43:40,291 --> 00:43:44,491
if people are using forks of that client to add their own features to Noster

560
00:43:44,491 --> 00:43:48,571
in such a way that they just end up experimenting with more things,

561
00:43:48,571 --> 00:43:54,591
And I have seen some of those things now being merged back into the main Jumbo as a client.

562
00:43:56,171 --> 00:44:00,191
That's an awesome movement because we want to see more of those forks.

563
00:44:00,271 --> 00:44:07,411
We want to see more people testing and feeling confident enough that they can get a regular client out there and just fork it.

564
00:44:07,651 --> 00:44:09,791
They change to their own liking.

565
00:44:10,691 --> 00:44:12,711
And if it works, they succeed.

566
00:44:12,811 --> 00:44:13,831
If it doesn't, they shut it off.

567
00:44:13,911 --> 00:44:15,411
But they can actually do that.

568
00:44:15,471 --> 00:44:16,351
They get some traction.

569
00:44:16,351 --> 00:44:18,671
and Jumbo is such a cool project

570
00:44:18,671 --> 00:44:20,931
that allows them to do in such an easy way

571
00:44:20,931 --> 00:44:24,511
that it becomes a movement of testing new things

572
00:44:24,511 --> 00:44:26,931
and experimenting and developing plugins and so on.

573
00:44:27,191 --> 00:44:28,951
So I want to see more of that as well.

574
00:44:29,311 --> 00:44:32,191
That could be interesting for the years to come.

575
00:44:37,011 --> 00:44:41,151
Yeah, the Jumbo, I've heard so much about it

576
00:44:41,151 --> 00:44:42,211
and I haven't used it.

577
00:44:42,911 --> 00:44:45,891
I think it's something to jump into and take a look at.

578
00:44:46,351 --> 00:44:54,711
For sure. Let's go back to something that worked in 2025, something that worked well.

579
00:44:55,051 --> 00:44:56,711
Corn, what's the next item on your list?

580
00:45:03,271 --> 00:45:05,231
Let's see. Next item on my list.

581
00:45:06,651 --> 00:45:07,551
White noise.

582
00:45:07,551 --> 00:45:22,551
So I have noticed, you know, coming at it from kind of just an end user scrolling on my feed, social, cultural kind of viewpoint.

583
00:45:24,291 --> 00:45:33,831
I seem to see more appeal to musicians this year compared to previous years.

584
00:45:33,831 --> 00:45:46,231
Not that it wasn't appealing, but it just seems like Noster has found a fit among musicians in addition to the other uses.

585
00:45:46,391 --> 00:45:54,671
But that really excites me as a musician myself to see that.

586
00:45:55,051 --> 00:46:02,131
We see more people posting signups, talking about posting their music on Wavelake, Fountain.

587
00:46:02,131 --> 00:46:10,031
I know that, I think it was this year at the, what was it, the Nos Vegas after party.

588
00:46:11,171 --> 00:46:13,311
There was a live stream stage.

589
00:46:14,151 --> 00:46:17,431
Toonster has been, you know, streaming their stuff.

590
00:46:18,171 --> 00:46:23,411
I keep seeing posts from Open Mic, you know, throughout the year, musicians.

591
00:46:23,611 --> 00:46:26,731
I just think that's a great, I think it's a perfect fit, honestly.

592
00:46:27,231 --> 00:46:28,851
Noster, Bitcoin, and music.

593
00:46:29,271 --> 00:46:30,811
It's a match made in heaven.

594
00:46:30,811 --> 00:46:37,951
but it's it's one of the aspects that has a ground game right it's it's one of those that uh you know

595
00:46:37,951 --> 00:46:46,191
there's it's always a physical part of these events um you know we it's it's strong in nashville

596
00:46:46,191 --> 00:46:53,131
from the costello family and open mic from the venues in uh minnesota i mean it's it's something

597
00:46:53,131 --> 00:46:59,411
that it's the one facet that has like an actual ground game where you can uh feel it in real life

598
00:46:59,411 --> 00:47:06,751
um Noster in real life and by the way the UK as well right I was impressed with the ground game

599
00:47:06,751 --> 00:47:13,611
they have going there well me you know music is so there's a lesson we learned there sorry

600
00:47:13,611 --> 00:47:18,191
you know music is so universal um

601
00:47:18,191 --> 00:47:25,611
it connects us all in different ways you know we all have our types of music that we like but

602
00:47:25,611 --> 00:47:31,251
music in general is pretty universally enjoyed no matter where you are.

603
00:47:31,251 --> 00:47:39,591
And so having a way to openly connect musicians with their audiences,

604
00:47:39,591 --> 00:47:42,211
with people that might want to discover new music,

605
00:47:42,411 --> 00:47:49,031
and then to have a way just to instantly share your appreciation through a zap

606
00:47:49,031 --> 00:47:53,491
back to that musician and knowing that it's going directly to them

607
00:47:53,491 --> 00:47:57,711
and they're getting 100% of those proceeds,

608
00:47:58,371 --> 00:48:03,291
it's an amazing thing to have available to us.

609
00:48:03,591 --> 00:48:05,711
And so I hope that that trend continues.

610
00:48:06,051 --> 00:48:10,891
But it seems like 2025 saw good support for that.

611
00:48:13,331 --> 00:48:17,251
Victor, as a man who's probably added every NIP

612
00:48:17,251 --> 00:48:19,391
that is in existence to Amethyst,

613
00:48:19,931 --> 00:48:21,591
any music NIPs on your radar?

614
00:48:21,591 --> 00:48:28,231
oh yeah we are finishing up one uh so i'm not sure if you guys know yak box from dark

615
00:48:28,231 --> 00:48:32,911
they are these are little voice recordings that you can reply to each other and so on

616
00:48:32,911 --> 00:48:39,771
these have are receiving now a new um new implementation um from one of our devs david

617
00:48:39,771 --> 00:48:48,351
and that will redesign the player for music which we had trouble since the beginning because

618
00:48:48,351 --> 00:48:50,391
for reasons beyond me,

619
00:48:51,111 --> 00:48:52,491
you can't really find a good

620
00:48:52,491 --> 00:48:54,371
music player for

621
00:48:54,371 --> 00:48:56,071
Android libraries

622
00:48:56,071 --> 00:48:58,491
that is native. So we had

623
00:48:58,491 --> 00:49:00,531
to design it from scratch, and it

624
00:49:00,531 --> 00:49:02,611
took us a while. But that

625
00:49:02,611 --> 00:49:04,591
will open the door to more

626
00:49:04,591 --> 00:49:06,631
music feeds

627
00:49:06,631 --> 00:49:08,451
and more integrations with Amethyst

628
00:49:08,451 --> 00:49:10,131
for sure. What I do

629
00:49:10,131 --> 00:49:11,551
want to see, though, is

630
00:49:11,551 --> 00:49:14,511
the use

631
00:49:14,511 --> 00:49:16,171
of Nostrad and Shoals and

632
00:49:16,171 --> 00:49:24,451
places where people are together and finding a way to do that do new things to help the concerts

633
00:49:24,451 --> 00:49:29,771
to help you know people connect with each other help singing whatever needs to be done there i

634
00:49:29,771 --> 00:49:36,091
want to see more clients focused on like this in-person activity that um that you can maybe

635
00:49:36,091 --> 00:49:41,591
you can only find in a concert and and how to you know integrate with the musician go back and forth

636
00:49:41,591 --> 00:49:45,891
you know play some games maybe you know have a huge display somewhere that people can participate

637
00:49:45,891 --> 00:49:58,671
I think there is a blue ocean for tools to help people have a better experience or get a more digital experience while listening to the show, while being there with their friends and so on.

638
00:49:59,551 --> 00:50:13,411
We were talking this morning with the other devs how there is a new nip now for Bluetooth communication, which BChat has been using and seems to be working kind of fine when people are at these numbers in a venue.

639
00:50:13,411 --> 00:50:16,191
and maybe that's the way to go.

640
00:50:16,411 --> 00:50:21,091
We just need to design an app that truly uses those technologies

641
00:50:21,091 --> 00:50:24,491
and creates something new, something we have not seen,

642
00:50:24,591 --> 00:50:30,051
not even in big tech, something that is just ours to cheer for.

643
00:50:31,151 --> 00:50:35,951
And maybe the way to work is just doubling down in the concept

644
00:50:35,951 --> 00:50:39,971
and these types of activities on the lack of other ones.

645
00:50:43,411 --> 00:50:48,111
And we've seen that a little bit with the zap board or zappers boost.

646
00:50:49,291 --> 00:50:51,511
Zap this and the disco ball turns.

647
00:50:52,111 --> 00:50:52,311
Yeah.

648
00:50:52,551 --> 00:50:55,211
And there's like little quirky things like that.

649
00:50:55,671 --> 00:50:58,751
And the funny thing is like those things are so simple to code.

650
00:50:59,071 --> 00:51:00,371
Maybe AI can even code this.

651
00:51:00,471 --> 00:51:00,991
I don't even know.

652
00:51:01,371 --> 00:51:06,711
But how much more of that can we do to enhance whatever that –

653
00:51:06,711 --> 00:51:09,931
the feeling that the musician wants to provide to their audience?

654
00:51:09,931 --> 00:51:13,411
Avi, how much traction

655
00:51:13,411 --> 00:51:14,411
I mean, just

656
00:51:14,411 --> 00:51:17,411
how much of the traction

657
00:51:17,411 --> 00:51:19,151
that music has kind of gotten on Noster

658
00:51:19,151 --> 00:51:20,911
could be

659
00:51:20,911 --> 00:51:21,691
maybe

660
00:51:21,691 --> 00:51:23,451
I don't know

661
00:51:23,451 --> 00:51:27,271
do you think any of it coincides

662
00:51:27,271 --> 00:51:29,131
with Richard Greaser's album

663
00:51:29,131 --> 00:51:30,531
Drop, Doomsday DJ?

664
00:51:32,651 --> 00:51:34,831
Well, he is a pioneer. He's a true pioneer.

665
00:51:35,411 --> 00:51:38,051
Do we owe it all to him?

666
00:51:38,771 --> 00:51:39,751
A lot of it.

667
00:51:39,931 --> 00:51:56,451
Yeah. A lot of it. I do want to talk about, and I might seed this part to start with. I want to talk about what I'm looking forward to, one item I'm looking forward to in 2026.

668
00:51:56,451 --> 00:52:14,417
And that is maybe building of a bridge between the RSS world and the NOSTA world It felt oddly and unnecessarily competitive up until now

669
00:52:14,957 --> 00:52:17,037
There have been attempts to build bridges in the past.

670
00:52:17,897 --> 00:52:23,537
Adam Curry in Open Mic did the show in Austin a year ago.

671
00:52:25,037 --> 00:52:27,537
Unfortunately, I don't think that...

672
00:52:27,537 --> 00:52:37,057
I mean, the show itself, I heard, was great, but the knock-on effect of the full Kumbaya between the worlds didn't quite materialize.

673
00:52:37,597 --> 00:52:49,917
But I do see ways in which the value for value podcasting 2.0 and RSS crowd can work in a complementary way with NOSTA.

674
00:52:49,917 --> 00:53:00,297
And I think part of it is for a lot of NOSTA folks to get away from this idea that everything has to be on NOSTA, like every layer of all stacks.

675
00:53:01,217 --> 00:53:13,917
I think we can recognize that there are elements, especially if there are open protocols like RSS out there that are taking care of things like distribution, music distribution itself,

676
00:53:13,917 --> 00:53:22,097
itself, that Gnoster can then sit on top of that, sit on top of RSS by first providing an identity

677
00:53:22,097 --> 00:53:29,197
and reputation layer. And more importantly, I think, a contextual web of trust layer that allows

678
00:53:29,197 --> 00:53:37,077
people to curate and discover music. And that's lacking, right? Just with our show in the last

679
00:53:37,077 --> 00:53:41,877
couple of weeks, trying to find independent music to play has been a nightmare. There's Podcast

680
00:53:41,877 --> 00:53:49,597
index, which has hundreds and thousands of songs, independent songs that are out there,

681
00:53:50,297 --> 00:53:56,817
how do I find the one that I like? I need to go and find some person's recommendation who I may

682
00:53:56,817 --> 00:54:03,437
or may not like, I mean, their taste of music. And it's a long process. With contextual web of

683
00:54:03,437 --> 00:54:11,037
trust, I think a lot of that can be solved. So I'm hopeful that 2026, we will see a convergence,

684
00:54:11,037 --> 00:54:19,577
maybe not a full-blown kumbaya, but a convergence, maybe even a truce between these two schisms.

685
00:54:20,357 --> 00:54:27,377
The other aspect of key send versus Ellen URL needs to be bridged somehow. But that's actually

686
00:54:27,377 --> 00:54:33,217
one of the things I'm looking forward to coming down the pike in 26. In theory, if you can get

687
00:54:33,217 --> 00:54:40,997
that web of trust and you can get that, you know, the people you follow, this is what they listen to,

688
00:54:41,037 --> 00:54:43,517
or this is, you know, this genre or this,

689
00:54:43,897 --> 00:54:46,637
you can almost get kind of a Pandora type

690
00:54:46,637 --> 00:54:50,397
value for value product.

691
00:54:51,037 --> 00:54:51,357
I agree.

692
00:54:51,517 --> 00:54:53,777
You can go one step further than that.

693
00:54:54,077 --> 00:54:56,837
These three, then I'll give you these six type of thing.

694
00:54:56,837 --> 00:54:57,237
Yeah.

695
00:54:57,877 --> 00:55:00,217
But I think you could go even one step beyond

696
00:55:00,217 --> 00:55:03,137
what Pandora could have possibly offered, Kedabi,

697
00:55:03,277 --> 00:55:08,757
which is because of just the Nostra's portable identity

698
00:55:08,757 --> 00:55:13,157
across apps, portable reputation as well across apps, right?

699
00:55:13,257 --> 00:55:15,697
You can even segment your web of trust

700
00:55:15,697 --> 00:55:21,117
to the ones whose musical taste you trust, right?

701
00:55:21,177 --> 00:55:23,157
So you trust someone's taste in music,

702
00:55:23,257 --> 00:55:26,757
you might not trust their taste in food or vice versa, right?

703
00:55:26,817 --> 00:55:28,497
So I think Nostra offers you that.

704
00:55:29,777 --> 00:55:33,497
So I think broader or sorry, more specific than,

705
00:55:34,497 --> 00:55:35,817
hey, my friends are listening to this,

706
00:55:35,837 --> 00:55:36,877
so let me listen to this.

707
00:55:36,877 --> 00:55:41,077
it's actually going to be, hey, my friends whose musical taste I actually respect

708
00:55:41,077 --> 00:55:45,677
are listening to this. So it probably means that I will actually like this.

709
00:55:46,277 --> 00:55:51,237
The first time I thought about that was during our show with Sam. We were talking about Wave Lake

710
00:55:51,237 --> 00:55:56,157
or maybe it was just my show with Sam. I don't know, but I was just, you know, you can, that

711
00:55:56,157 --> 00:56:01,997
discoverability through web of trust is just a powerful one. But, you know, getting that web of

712
00:56:01,997 --> 00:56:07,717
trust done right to where it's a universal approach is another aspect of it or angle.

713
00:56:09,117 --> 00:56:12,757
Where do you think web of trust is at right now in regards to that?

714
00:56:13,697 --> 00:56:14,677
Oh, let's ask Vitor.

715
00:56:18,217 --> 00:56:19,437
In layman terms.

716
00:56:20,337 --> 00:56:27,377
So the fun fact is that until this year, I believe, we really didn't have enough data

717
00:56:27,377 --> 00:56:29,317
for web of trust to mean anything.

718
00:56:29,317 --> 00:56:34,497
Because there's not enough, you know, no user users and there's not enough posts and there's not enough other stuff.

719
00:56:34,677 --> 00:56:36,637
There's not a kind of client out there.

720
00:56:37,577 --> 00:56:43,637
I think 2026 will be about Web of Trust because we now have the data.

721
00:56:43,797 --> 00:56:51,197
We now have enough posts from a lot of different keys, enough different types of interactions.

722
00:56:51,937 --> 00:56:59,257
You might think about, you know, just reactions and emojis and GIF button and the replies.

723
00:56:59,317 --> 00:57:03,977
and so on, those are the base layer for Web of Trust.

724
00:57:03,977 --> 00:57:09,037
But now we are starting to have labels and bots that are doing other things,

725
00:57:09,157 --> 00:57:17,657
and they are trying to assign value to tweets, to posts, to calendar events, to everything on Oster.

726
00:57:18,597 --> 00:57:22,937
And at some point, and I totally think right now we already have the data

727
00:57:22,937 --> 00:57:28,577
to start making some of the smarter algorithmic marketplace

728
00:57:28,577 --> 00:57:30,717
that we have dreamed about for so long.

729
00:57:31,277 --> 00:57:34,837
For instance, Primal has a 24-hour trending algorithm.

730
00:57:35,837 --> 00:57:39,957
If you go there and you ask for the feed,

731
00:57:40,517 --> 00:57:44,137
your feed will be the same as mine on Primal.

732
00:57:44,857 --> 00:57:46,577
And that is not how it's supposed to do it.

733
00:57:46,577 --> 00:57:50,437
If I go to Primal, I should get the feed just for myself,

734
00:57:50,437 --> 00:57:54,917
with my interests, and I don't want to see a global thing

735
00:57:54,917 --> 00:57:56,697
that everybody is also seeing, right?

736
00:57:57,177 --> 00:58:01,557
And I think we're getting to the point now that we do have the data

737
00:58:01,557 --> 00:58:06,477
to get to that point, to actually do two or three different feeds

738
00:58:06,477 --> 00:58:12,877
that truly match the customization that each user deserves on Noster

739
00:58:12,877 --> 00:58:17,097
instead of just being this global thing that everybody will see.

740
00:58:17,797 --> 00:58:18,697
But it's closer than ever.

741
00:58:18,697 --> 00:58:25,397
you tell me you don't you you don't want my good morning post where i zap everyone uh 10 sats for

742
00:58:25,397 --> 00:58:31,057
saying good morning back trending on the 24-hour primal i only like those on saturdays

743
00:58:31,957 --> 00:58:42,237
that was a fun time huh dark nostrick it i believe dark nostrick uh but uh i think this

744
00:58:42,237 --> 00:58:49,877
is a good time. We're just around the hour mark to go to our song segment. And folks, I hope your

745
00:58:49,877 --> 00:58:56,797
speakers can handle some low end because we're taking a hard left turn into the 90s underground

746
00:58:56,797 --> 00:59:01,577
or certainly something that sounds like it. If you grew up listening to Stone Temple Pilots

747
00:59:01,577 --> 00:59:07,517
or Alice in Chains, if you missed that era where rock felt dangerous and sludgy,

748
00:59:07,517 --> 00:59:12,977
you are going to lose your mind over this next track.

749
00:59:13,237 --> 00:59:16,777
It's called Death Crown, and it's by a band,

750
00:59:16,897 --> 00:59:20,537
by a Finnish grunge band called Polanski.

751
00:59:21,377 --> 00:59:25,057
It's got that driving relentless bass line

752
00:59:25,057 --> 00:59:28,977
and a vocal performance that feels like it's being broadcast

753
00:59:28,977 --> 00:59:30,637
through a megaphone from a bunker.

754
00:59:31,177 --> 00:59:36,417
It sounds like Seattle in 1993, but it's happening right now.

755
00:59:37,517 --> 00:59:38,677
So let's go.

756
01:00:07,517 --> 01:00:14,517
I

757
01:00:15,837 --> 01:00:18,477
job right inside your

758
01:00:18,477 --> 01:00:20,737
little mouth

759
01:00:20,737 --> 01:00:21,837
a lesson

760
01:00:21,837 --> 01:00:24,557
you get to see

761
01:00:24,557 --> 01:00:25,997
you're going

762
01:00:25,997 --> 01:00:27,277
nowhere

763
01:00:27,277 --> 01:00:30,477
you

764
01:00:30,477 --> 01:00:32,657
are not burning

765
01:00:32,657 --> 01:00:33,957
bad

766
01:00:33,957 --> 01:00:35,497
I never wanted

767
01:00:35,497 --> 01:00:37,877
Any of that

768
01:00:37,877 --> 01:00:40,097
Crospiring through

769
01:00:40,097 --> 01:00:41,917
Not saying yet

770
01:00:41,917 --> 01:00:43,777
I'm unable to

771
01:00:43,777 --> 01:00:47,917
Shake this one off

772
01:00:47,917 --> 01:00:54,177
How

773
01:00:54,177 --> 01:00:56,037
There's a red moon

774
01:00:56,037 --> 01:00:56,757
Rising

775
01:00:56,757 --> 01:00:59,917
Mothers be deciding

776
01:01:00,617 --> 01:01:02,597
Ooh yeah

777
01:01:02,597 --> 01:01:04,277
You still need

778
01:01:04,277 --> 01:01:07,177
These path crows

779
01:01:07,177 --> 01:01:09,677
Cry

780
01:01:09,677 --> 01:01:11,037
Mold at a time

781
01:01:11,037 --> 01:01:13,517
Journey rocked and high

782
01:01:13,517 --> 01:01:14,217
Collar

783
01:01:14,217 --> 01:01:15,957
Take people lying

784
01:01:15,957 --> 01:01:17,117
Wall

785
01:01:17,117 --> 01:01:18,737
Push itself

786
01:01:18,737 --> 01:01:21,957
And given a chance to fly

787
01:01:21,957 --> 01:01:28,057
You were not burning bird

788
01:01:28,057 --> 01:01:32,037
I never wanted any of that

789
01:01:32,037 --> 01:01:33,697
Blood burning

790
01:01:33,697 --> 01:01:40,977
Do not say, yeah, am I unable to shake this one up?

791
01:01:40,977 --> 01:01:52,477
I'm hung up on your light, watching as you put us down.

792
01:01:52,477 --> 01:01:59,757
Down

793
01:02:06,557 --> 01:02:17,557
Down

794
01:02:17,557 --> 01:02:53,943
We be right back You

795
01:02:53,943 --> 01:02:57,103
With a funny friend

796
01:02:57,103 --> 01:03:01,063
Never wanted any of that

797
01:03:01,063 --> 01:03:04,903
But funny blue that's sad

798
01:03:04,903 --> 01:03:09,743
Am I unable to shake this one off?

799
01:03:09,743 --> 01:03:15,183
I'm hung up on your life

800
01:03:15,183 --> 01:03:18,063
We are hell

801
01:03:18,063 --> 01:03:22,943
We'll lay us down

802
01:03:22,943 --> 01:03:28,203
What's in half the days your

803
01:03:28,203 --> 01:03:33,563
This said takes your crown

804
01:03:33,563 --> 01:03:58,123
That was Death Crown by Polanski.

805
01:03:58,123 --> 01:04:00,203
I mean, come on.

806
01:04:00,203 --> 01:04:05,363
that vocal delivery is channeling Scott Whelan from the grave.

807
01:04:06,083 --> 01:04:08,703
The way they put the distortion on the voice,

808
01:04:08,883 --> 01:04:11,303
it sits right in the pocket of the mix

809
01:04:11,303 --> 01:04:13,863
without getting buried by those guitars.

810
01:04:13,863 --> 01:04:18,283
And the lyrics in the chorus, blood, money, lunatic.

811
01:04:18,803 --> 01:04:23,063
If that isn't the perfect description of the central banking system,

812
01:04:23,203 --> 01:04:24,363
I don't know what is.

813
01:04:24,603 --> 01:04:26,183
It's heavy, it's angry,

814
01:04:26,763 --> 01:04:29,603
and it's exactly the kind of energy we need

815
01:04:29,603 --> 01:04:37,563
to bring back a massive shout out to Polanski for keeping that grit alive. I've got the 90%

816
01:04:37,563 --> 01:04:45,343
split for the band set up in the chapter. So if you want to support blood money critics rather than

817
01:04:45,343 --> 01:04:53,663
blood money printers, hit that rewind button, jump back a minute or two, and then hit that

818
01:04:53,663 --> 01:05:04,483
boost button. Colin, you are a musician. What did you think? Oh, I loved it. It took me back to

819
01:05:04,483 --> 01:05:10,063
when I was little, man, sitting in the car with my brother. I've got a brother that's like five

820
01:05:10,063 --> 01:05:17,343
years older than me. And you mentioned Stone Temple Pilots and kind of that era. And man,

821
01:05:17,343 --> 01:05:22,623
we were just riding around, cranking the music. And it was, I don't know, I just, I love that feel.

822
01:05:22,623 --> 01:05:23,863
That was a great song.

823
01:05:24,603 --> 01:05:25,823
Isn't it uncanny?

824
01:05:26,083 --> 01:05:27,803
How they've channeled that?

825
01:05:28,143 --> 01:05:29,543
Yeah, it was awesome.

826
01:05:30,923 --> 01:05:32,343
Where'd you find that, Avi?

827
01:05:33,563 --> 01:05:35,783
Well, it would have been so much easier

828
01:05:35,783 --> 01:05:38,023
if I had contextual web of trust

829
01:05:38,023 --> 01:05:41,783
already built and music curation and discovery.

830
01:05:42,523 --> 01:05:44,063
This took me an hour to find,

831
01:05:44,943 --> 01:05:47,003
just trolling through podcast index.

832
01:05:47,643 --> 01:05:50,203
Just proof of search, they call it.

833
01:05:50,203 --> 01:05:56,803
uh corn you ready for the acoustic version uh not to put you on the spot right now but

834
01:05:56,803 --> 01:06:00,283
give the people what they want

835
01:06:00,283 --> 01:06:11,423
yeah which are we need we need music duration and discovery i mean all i can think about this how do

836
01:06:11,423 --> 01:06:17,903
i develop a client to get you to sing instead of just showing somebody else's music can we get that

837
01:06:17,903 --> 01:06:24,663
can we make some a client that is that good yeah there is a there is a mereka which uh you can

838
01:06:24,663 --> 01:06:31,543
clone your voice and it produces songs with your voice now we already has uh claude uh an interview

839
01:06:31,543 --> 01:06:41,363
with himself so he's he's almost there just one step away so uh i think we were talking about one

840
01:06:41,363 --> 01:06:47,483
thing the thing we're looking forward to so maybe con uh do you what is the item on your list what

841
01:06:47,483 --> 01:06:54,703
are you looking forward to in 2026 um let's see here

842
01:06:54,703 --> 01:07:02,843
well you know on the on the topic of music and just kind of zooming out a little bit from

843
01:07:02,843 --> 01:07:11,063
there to content in general um you know i i'm looking forward to more features

844
01:07:11,063 --> 01:07:18,963
that empower and enable artists, creators, musicians, writers, whatever it may be.

845
01:07:20,543 --> 01:07:23,403
I think zap splits are huge.

846
01:07:23,863 --> 01:07:26,843
It's something you were talking about with the boost splits.

847
01:07:27,983 --> 01:07:29,803
With podcasts, that's kind of a thing.

848
01:07:30,543 --> 01:07:37,423
But I think I would love to see that more integrated into Noster clients

849
01:07:37,423 --> 01:07:41,563
where we could define a split between incoming Zaps.

850
01:07:41,783 --> 01:07:45,823
And, you know, so maybe part of that could go to support a co-author

851
01:07:45,823 --> 01:07:52,403
or a band member or an app developer, you know,

852
01:07:52,403 --> 01:07:55,723
where we want to kind of divide out that support that's coming in

853
01:07:55,723 --> 01:07:58,783
for the content that people are posting.

854
01:08:00,543 --> 01:08:04,523
So Zap splits, you know, maybe a subscription option for creators.

855
01:08:04,523 --> 01:08:15,303
maybe there's even some app teams that have the funds to sponsor some artists to to kind of create

856
01:08:15,303 --> 01:08:22,123
and and bring in more users and and form form some kind of partnership there and but yeah i would

857
01:08:22,123 --> 01:08:30,283
just love to see more features geared around creators artists content because i really think

858
01:08:30,283 --> 01:08:31,683
that's where we're going to find

859
01:08:31,683 --> 01:08:33,383
user growth,

860
01:08:34,123 --> 01:08:36,283
that stickiness where people want to keep coming

861
01:08:36,283 --> 01:08:38,163
back and engaging with

862
01:08:38,163 --> 01:08:40,243
their favorite artists with each other

863
01:08:40,243 --> 01:08:41,623
around that content.

864
01:08:43,783 --> 01:08:44,263
Vitar,

865
01:08:44,403 --> 01:08:46,283
how quickly can you

866
01:08:46,283 --> 01:08:48,123
code that up? I don't know. Give me two weeks.

867
01:08:50,283 --> 01:08:51,643
What are your thoughts on that?

868
01:08:53,383 --> 01:08:54,163
Let me check

869
01:08:54,163 --> 01:08:56,103
the calendar. We can do the release date here.

870
01:08:58,543 --> 01:09:00,223
I would need some AI help, though.

871
01:09:00,283 --> 01:09:07,163
which is on my list for things to watch in 2026.

872
01:09:07,563 --> 01:09:15,283
I truly hope the AI that we are seeing right now evolves to a stage where,

873
01:09:16,563 --> 01:09:18,963
and it fits the Nostra ecosystem so well,

874
01:09:19,683 --> 01:09:26,163
that an AI colder can kill something like Amethyst,

875
01:09:26,243 --> 01:09:29,643
can just make something way better than what we have ever done.

876
01:09:30,283 --> 01:09:32,263
I don't think we are that far.

877
01:09:33,083 --> 01:09:37,223
And if I had to bet, I think it will happen.

878
01:09:37,903 --> 01:09:40,983
It's just a matter of time and if it is 2026 or not.

879
01:09:41,843 --> 01:09:45,123
But if we can get to the point where...

880
01:09:45,123 --> 01:09:47,303
Nostar is already a very...

881
01:09:47,303 --> 01:09:50,563
It encourages you to develop small applications.

882
01:09:51,083 --> 01:09:54,963
If we can get to the point where AI can just produce this for us,

883
01:09:55,923 --> 01:09:59,603
and maybe the music app from Korn is one of the ideas,

884
01:10:00,283 --> 01:10:03,623
we are going to be in a better place,

885
01:10:03,803 --> 01:10:06,963
even if all of our current clients go bankrupt,

886
01:10:07,643 --> 01:10:09,203
because it's going to be so much better.

887
01:10:09,623 --> 01:10:12,923
And I hope we get to that future sooner rather than later.

888
01:10:13,443 --> 01:10:16,503
So if we can get there, if we can just tune these models

889
01:10:16,503 --> 01:10:20,543
and make sure they can output something compliant with the NIPs

890
01:10:20,543 --> 01:10:22,883
that will work most of the time,

891
01:10:23,383 --> 01:10:25,563
that doesn't have any of the issues we see today,

892
01:10:26,983 --> 01:10:28,383
we are going to be gold.

893
01:10:28,383 --> 01:10:31,283
we're going to pass anything else that is out there

894
01:10:31,283 --> 01:10:34,663
because there is nothing that can interoperate like we do.

895
01:10:35,503 --> 01:10:40,423
So all we need is to get the creativity from, frankly, users,

896
01:10:40,563 --> 01:10:46,203
not only devs, and get them to actually output an app that they like,

897
01:10:46,383 --> 01:10:48,043
that matches whatever they want to do.

898
01:10:48,423 --> 01:10:51,483
And it doesn't have any of the egos or the background

899
01:10:51,483 --> 01:10:53,543
that devs today have.

900
01:10:53,543 --> 01:10:58,223
Has there been a breakout AI app

901
01:10:58,223 --> 01:11:00,543
Fully vibe-coded app?

902
01:11:00,863 --> 01:11:03,963
Because what I'm seeing is some interesting experiments

903
01:11:03,963 --> 01:11:07,603
That inevitably become abandonedware

904
01:11:07,603 --> 01:11:11,003
Yeah, that is the problem of today

905
01:11:11,003 --> 01:11:13,743
It's just too many experiments and not enough products

906
01:11:13,743 --> 01:11:17,083
Coming out from an AI kind of infrastructure

907
01:11:17,083 --> 01:11:23,283
And I don't know if it's going to change in the short term

908
01:11:23,283 --> 01:11:26,103
but I do hope it does change by the end of next year

909
01:11:26,103 --> 01:11:28,503
that we can actually get something real,

910
01:11:29,203 --> 01:11:32,063
that something that you can just deploy with one button

911
01:11:32,063 --> 01:11:35,843
and people can use and not have any bugs

912
01:11:35,843 --> 01:11:38,983
or have a minimal amount of bugs that at least makes it workable

913
01:11:38,983 --> 01:11:41,443
and then you can fix the rest of it.

914
01:11:42,223 --> 01:11:44,183
I don't think we're that far.

915
01:11:45,323 --> 01:11:49,643
But it looks far just because we have seen so much crap coming in.

916
01:11:50,443 --> 01:11:52,723
But, you know, I'm still hopeful.

917
01:11:52,723 --> 01:11:55,043
I'm still hopeful that they're going to figure this out somehow.

918
01:11:55,883 --> 01:12:02,423
And we're going to have, in a similar way that chess engines can play better than any human,

919
01:12:03,423 --> 01:12:07,143
and your phone can beat the best chess players in the world kind of thing,

920
01:12:07,763 --> 01:12:09,023
we're going to see the same for coding.

921
01:12:09,963 --> 01:12:13,683
And if that happens, then I do think Noster wins.

922
01:12:14,163 --> 01:12:19,723
Because the structure we have behind for AI to build is just so much better.

923
01:12:19,723 --> 01:12:28,963
so the devs the devs just need to do something avi well the devs need some love you know

924
01:12:28,963 --> 01:12:39,463
i i just had a just had an idea as he was saying that btor i think the way you solve that is if um

925
01:12:39,463 --> 01:12:49,563
if to the the process to get an api key from any ai model right now all ai models would have to

926
01:12:49,563 --> 01:13:01,229
including open source ones would have to somehow universally implement this But to get an API key you actually had to pass a coding test And only then you get the key to use the model

927
01:13:01,989 --> 01:13:07,269
Maybe that might, that'll at least filter out a lot of the,

928
01:13:08,749 --> 01:13:13,769
or it'll ensure that a large number of people who are Vibe coding are actually devs

929
01:13:13,769 --> 01:13:16,389
or with some developer background.

930
01:13:17,509 --> 01:13:19,109
Sort of bug fixability?

931
01:13:19,929 --> 01:13:23,109
Yeah, something like that.

932
01:13:25,889 --> 01:13:28,049
It's like a driving test in some sense, right?

933
01:13:28,089 --> 01:13:31,849
You don't want someone who's never driven a car to suddenly get in and start driving a car.

934
01:13:33,869 --> 01:13:36,289
So who is going to test the testing AI?

935
01:13:37,129 --> 01:13:37,789
Well, that's...

936
01:13:37,789 --> 01:13:43,489
The other problem is you need...

937
01:13:43,489 --> 01:13:46,789
As I'm saying it, I'm realizing there's several holes here.

938
01:13:46,789 --> 01:13:53,129
Every single AI model ever created, which provides API access, will have to enforce this.

939
01:13:53,669 --> 01:14:00,269
Otherwise, someone's going to use one of those non-enforcing AIs to complete the coding test.

940
01:14:01,609 --> 01:14:03,909
Yeah, there are problems there.

941
01:14:04,089 --> 01:14:05,369
But the point is, I think...

942
01:14:05,369 --> 01:14:07,889
A web of trust for these APIs, you know.

943
01:14:07,889 --> 01:14:08,649
Uh-huh.

944
01:14:10,509 --> 01:14:15,869
Some sort of experiment, some sort of, you know, you've accomplished a few things

945
01:14:15,869 --> 01:14:17,109
before you can grant.

946
01:14:17,329 --> 01:14:19,609
You leveled up until it unlocked,

947
01:14:19,789 --> 01:14:21,389
like you're a role player or something.

948
01:14:23,089 --> 01:14:25,529
Like if you're in a role-playing game,

949
01:14:25,569 --> 01:14:27,109
you can't put a certain armor on

950
01:14:27,109 --> 01:14:28,849
until you're a certain level, you know?

951
01:14:29,329 --> 01:14:31,209
So maybe that's just it.

952
01:14:31,809 --> 01:14:33,789
You gain your experience,

953
01:14:34,049 --> 01:14:37,429
and one day you can reach this API

954
01:14:37,429 --> 01:14:38,989
that you've always coveted.

955
01:14:42,769 --> 01:14:43,509
All right.

956
01:14:43,509 --> 01:14:47,889
So, Vitor, was that one of the things you were looking forward to in 26?

957
01:14:48,749 --> 01:14:53,629
At least I'm hopeful that this will get there by the end of the next year.

958
01:14:54,489 --> 01:14:54,869
We'll see.

959
01:14:56,689 --> 01:14:59,849
And hopefully, like, if that works, then I'm not going to be here anymore.

960
01:15:00,049 --> 01:15:01,469
So, you know, this is the last year.

961
01:15:05,109 --> 01:15:06,329
I don't think.

962
01:15:07,109 --> 01:15:11,929
I just think 2026, we should, I mean, I would like to see.

963
01:15:11,929 --> 01:15:19,189
more just more cohesion just like we saw with the streaming just like we saw in Nostra in general

964
01:15:19,189 --> 01:15:23,549
like I want to see better dms I want to see you know I don't want to have to leave to go to

965
01:15:23,549 --> 01:15:31,209
telegram or you know signal or you know keet or what you know if I can just do everything in

966
01:15:31,209 --> 01:15:38,549
one ecosystem that's in one interface and jump around that that's great I mean yeah I don't mind

967
01:15:38,549 --> 01:15:46,529
having extra apps but you know if i'm truly gonna be present on nostr it's nice to just be present on

968
01:15:46,529 --> 01:15:54,009
one interface in my opinion uh but you know that's it yeah and that dms was on my list of

969
01:15:54,009 --> 01:16:01,909
the disappointing things of 2025 uh no let's talk about that same man this should have worked

970
01:16:01,909 --> 01:16:03,329
already like last year,

971
01:16:04,189 --> 01:16:07,789
but we are not fast enough to make this work.

972
01:16:09,509 --> 01:16:14,229
The whole migration from NIPO 4 to NIP 17 was strange.

973
01:16:16,049 --> 01:16:20,569
And I do think that we need to make DMs

974
01:16:20,569 --> 01:16:22,829
like a first-class citizen on NOSTER

975
01:16:22,829 --> 01:16:26,909
to truly give NOSTER the power it needs

976
01:16:26,909 --> 01:16:30,929
to boost the social network we all want to have in there.

977
01:16:31,289 --> 01:16:32,489
Like we need DMs.

978
01:16:32,629 --> 01:16:35,109
There is no way Nostar can survive without DMs.

979
01:16:36,329 --> 01:16:40,269
So we just need to actually come down to code and get this done

980
01:16:40,269 --> 01:16:44,569
and make it so that people can actually receive DMs, send DMs,

981
01:16:44,649 --> 01:16:49,009
and see images and it's all encrypted as it should be.

982
01:16:49,929 --> 01:16:54,329
And at least the biggest clients don't have any issues with it,

983
01:16:54,369 --> 01:16:55,769
but we are not there today.

984
01:16:55,769 --> 01:17:04,129
gone since it was on your list as well your thoughts yeah i just simply wrote it down as

985
01:17:04,129 --> 01:17:12,709
dms still suck and i just i can't use nostr dms you know occasionally i'll i'll get a message or

986
01:17:12,709 --> 01:17:17,169
send a message here and there but it's not reliable you don't know if the person's going to see it

987
01:17:17,169 --> 01:17:21,589
um and then the message is just kind of hanging out there you don't really know what to do with

988
01:17:21,589 --> 01:17:30,509
Usually I use Nostradiems in order to connect with somebody on Signal or Telegram or something.

989
01:17:30,629 --> 01:17:31,969
So I would love to see that get better.

990
01:17:35,689 --> 01:17:45,469
I wrote a post on this just a couple weeks ago saying that on Android, actually, the NIP 17 kind of works.

991
01:17:45,869 --> 01:17:48,109
Most of us talk in NIP 17.

992
01:17:48,109 --> 01:17:52,549
but if I need to talk to anyone using desktop or iOS

993
01:17:52,549 --> 01:17:54,549
then I need to use Signal

994
01:17:54,549 --> 01:17:56,269
because nothing works on the other side

995
01:17:56,269 --> 01:17:59,489
so that has been disappointing to see

996
01:17:59,489 --> 01:18:02,569
and together with this DM need

997
01:18:02,569 --> 01:18:05,489
there is a fraction of this space

998
01:18:05,489 --> 01:18:09,909
which is this workspace kind of ecosystem

999
01:18:09,909 --> 01:18:13,089
where you just want to get together in a private space

1000
01:18:13,089 --> 01:18:15,809
with your co-workers or their friends or their family and so on

1001
01:18:15,809 --> 01:18:17,609
and you kind of want to do something together

1002
01:18:17,609 --> 01:18:21,769
similar to the Slack model or Discord

1003
01:18:21,769 --> 01:18:25,249
or these apps that try to bring people together

1004
01:18:25,249 --> 01:18:27,269
to delivering goals and so on.

1005
01:18:27,349 --> 01:18:31,449
Very corporate, very focused on getting things done

1006
01:18:31,449 --> 01:18:31,929
kind of thing.

1007
01:18:33,489 --> 01:18:35,549
We haven't seen much development there too

1008
01:18:35,549 --> 01:18:37,689
and that will be important for us.

1009
01:18:37,869 --> 01:18:41,109
We cannot go back to using Slack and so on

1010
01:18:41,109 --> 01:18:42,369
just because we have a company now

1011
01:18:42,369 --> 01:18:43,469
and we need to communicate

1012
01:18:43,469 --> 01:18:45,629
and there is no way to use any nostril client

1013
01:18:45,629 --> 01:18:46,529
to do this well.

1014
01:18:47,229 --> 01:18:48,689
We need to figure that out.

1015
01:18:49,689 --> 01:18:52,649
It might not be part of the DM NIP per se,

1016
01:18:52,849 --> 01:18:54,409
like technically speaking is different,

1017
01:18:54,969 --> 01:18:58,829
but in my mind for users, it's the same interface.

1018
01:18:59,129 --> 01:19:00,229
It's the same thing.

1019
01:19:00,389 --> 01:19:01,849
Like we need to figure that out somehow.

1020
01:19:03,629 --> 01:19:06,989
Yeah, the user doesn't care what's happening behind the hood.

1021
01:19:06,989 --> 01:19:10,849
They just need DMs that work without leaking their privacy.

1022
01:19:11,669 --> 01:19:11,749
Yeah.

1023
01:19:11,749 --> 01:19:17,189
So there's obviously talk about the Marmood protocol

1024
01:19:17,189 --> 01:19:19,769
and then White Noise as the reference client,

1025
01:19:19,889 --> 01:19:21,049
the first reference client for that.

1026
01:19:21,429 --> 01:19:24,549
And we had Max Hillebrand on the show a couple of weeks back

1027
01:19:24,549 --> 01:19:27,609
or about a month back saying, look, just wait until June.

1028
01:19:28,709 --> 01:19:30,929
Each release is going to get slightly more stable,

1029
01:19:31,209 --> 01:19:36,049
but sometime in the summer next year is when we can expect

1030
01:19:36,049 --> 01:19:38,469
to see something reasonable.

1031
01:19:39,249 --> 01:19:41,329
Have you looked at that code base at all

1032
01:19:41,329 --> 01:19:42,569
or talk to that team at all?

1033
01:19:42,769 --> 01:19:44,429
I'm sure they've reached out to you

1034
01:19:44,429 --> 01:19:47,069
for integrating Marmot into Amethyst.

1035
01:19:48,769 --> 01:19:49,209
Yes.

1036
01:19:51,709 --> 01:19:53,549
The thing I don't like about this story

1037
01:19:53,549 --> 01:19:56,389
is that building a GM client,

1038
01:19:56,489 --> 01:19:57,269
even for groups,

1039
01:19:58,149 --> 01:19:59,089
shouldn't be this hard

1040
01:19:59,089 --> 01:20:01,969
to get something working.

1041
01:20:02,569 --> 01:20:03,289
And I don't know,

1042
01:20:03,469 --> 01:20:05,069
maybe the stack is too hard,

1043
01:20:05,189 --> 01:20:06,829
maybe MLS is too hard to code,

1044
01:20:07,689 --> 01:20:10,949
but it is taking too long

1045
01:20:10,949 --> 01:20:13,389
which is giving me the crypts.

1046
01:20:13,389 --> 01:20:15,229
Because if for them it's hard to code,

1047
01:20:15,329 --> 01:20:17,949
imagine integrating every single client out there.

1048
01:20:19,029 --> 01:20:20,309
It's not going to be easy.

1049
01:20:20,809 --> 01:20:23,629
So clients like Amethyst and maybe Demons and Primal

1050
01:20:23,629 --> 01:20:25,149
can try to do it.

1051
01:20:25,769 --> 01:20:27,069
But then what about all the others?

1052
01:20:27,589 --> 01:20:28,949
Like what about these upstreams of the world

1053
01:20:28,949 --> 01:20:30,649
that want DMs on their space?

1054
01:20:31,309 --> 01:20:33,309
Like how long will it take for them

1055
01:20:33,309 --> 01:20:34,529
to merge something like this?

1056
01:20:35,169 --> 01:20:36,529
You know, if you have smaller clients

1057
01:20:36,529 --> 01:20:38,689
that the developer doesn't have a lot of time,

1058
01:20:38,689 --> 01:20:44,049
because Nostar focuses so much on smaller clients,

1059
01:20:44,869 --> 01:20:46,169
or it should at least,

1060
01:20:47,269 --> 01:20:51,309
it's hard for me to imagine that being successful.

1061
01:20:52,169 --> 01:20:54,889
But the protocol itself is great.

1062
01:20:55,229 --> 01:20:57,209
The securities that it brings are great.

1063
01:20:58,209 --> 01:21:01,469
I'm just concerned that this might be one of those cases

1064
01:21:01,469 --> 01:21:03,829
that the spec or the protocol

1065
01:21:03,829 --> 01:21:07,049
or the combination of all factors becomes so complicated

1066
01:21:07,049 --> 01:21:12,209
that it's really hard to get interoperability to the point we want in Nostra

1067
01:21:12,209 --> 01:21:15,109
in such a way that people don't need to use white noise

1068
01:21:15,109 --> 01:21:20,129
to actually GM in the same standard, in the same interoperable interface.

1069
01:21:20,649 --> 01:21:22,529
Because that's what we want as Nostra, right?

1070
01:21:22,529 --> 01:21:25,889
We want multiple clients, hopefully hundreds of clients.

1071
01:21:26,889 --> 01:21:29,769
And I don't know how widespread can that be, you know?

1072
01:21:30,969 --> 01:21:35,909
And there's Marty Malmy working on the double ratchet at his end,

1073
01:21:35,909 --> 01:21:39,309
which was guaranteed not to interoperate with Marmot

1074
01:21:39,309 --> 01:21:42,109
because it's just a completely different encryption scheme.

1075
01:21:42,529 --> 01:21:44,369
And it's also kind of complicated.

1076
01:21:44,689 --> 01:21:46,709
It also requires you to,

1077
01:21:46,849 --> 01:21:50,469
I believe it requires you to move some other secrets

1078
01:21:50,469 --> 01:21:52,029
from one client to another.

1079
01:21:52,689 --> 01:21:56,249
So if you are on Amethyst and you want to stop using Amethyst

1080
01:21:56,249 --> 01:21:57,909
and start using Primo or Demos,

1081
01:21:58,569 --> 01:22:02,749
you kind of need to migrate your DMs to this new place somehow.

1082
01:22:02,749 --> 01:22:06,409
So, yeah, it works.

1083
01:22:06,509 --> 01:22:07,129
It's more secure.

1084
01:22:07,989 --> 01:22:09,569
They're definitely right about that.

1085
01:22:10,149 --> 01:22:22,929
But it also goes against the simplicity that we want to just have these applications be implemented very easily in a way that anyone can do it or the AI can do it.

1086
01:22:23,049 --> 01:22:24,349
Imagine AI coding in Marmot.

1087
01:22:24,689 --> 01:22:29,569
It's like this is going to go crazy in so many ways because it's so big.

1088
01:22:29,789 --> 01:22:32,249
And, you know, I think they have a good heart.

1089
01:22:32,249 --> 01:22:35,729
They're trying to do a library that anyone can just use and so on.

1090
01:22:36,509 --> 01:22:42,889
But libraries are tricky because then you create something like a Bitcoin core kind of thing that you have to use there.

1091
01:22:43,829 --> 01:22:48,569
That stuff to use Bitcoin, you can't have another client, you can't have other things.

1092
01:22:49,689 --> 01:22:55,129
And that centralization is not something I think in Nostra we want to see.

1093
01:22:55,289 --> 01:22:55,829
Maybe I'm wrong.

1094
01:22:56,889 --> 01:22:59,129
And I want them to succeed, don't get me wrong.

1095
01:22:59,129 --> 01:23:07,249
I want them to actually ship something that works and kind of amaze us all by how good this MLS protocol is.

1096
01:23:08,249 --> 01:23:10,189
But they haven't proven that yet.

1097
01:23:11,329 --> 01:23:17,389
And I'm concerned that it's taking way too long for them to prove something that should be simpler than that.

1098
01:23:19,309 --> 01:23:19,889
Gone.

1099
01:23:19,915 --> 01:23:21,895
I think you're fresh out of luck, my friend.

1100
01:23:22,475 --> 01:23:25,035
2026 is not looking too hot for DMs.

1101
01:23:27,135 --> 01:23:28,315
I think I'll survive.

1102
01:23:29,695 --> 01:23:32,155
Honestly, I would be happy, just as happy,

1103
01:23:32,155 --> 01:23:36,575
if the entire DM feature was removed from the apps

1104
01:23:36,575 --> 01:23:38,475
until something's figured out.

1105
01:23:38,755 --> 01:23:43,535
But, yeah, it's not a feature I like to use.

1106
01:23:45,715 --> 01:23:46,615
All right, Con.

1107
01:23:46,675 --> 01:23:49,595
So let's do one last one.

1108
01:23:49,915 --> 01:23:54,855
Maybe we do one last one on the negative side, which is maybe we pick culture.

1109
01:23:54,995 --> 01:23:59,375
What in Nostra culture could have gone better over 2025?

1110
01:23:59,455 --> 01:24:01,295
I don't know if you have anything on your list.

1111
01:24:01,455 --> 01:24:04,335
And then we'll just finish off on a positive note.

1112
01:24:07,915 --> 01:24:08,995
You're asking for me?

1113
01:24:09,795 --> 01:24:10,975
Yeah, for Yukon, yeah.

1114
01:24:13,395 --> 01:24:14,715
Okay, so let's see.

1115
01:24:15,575 --> 01:24:17,395
We talked about discoverability.

1116
01:24:19,915 --> 01:24:29,695
culture side. You know, I don't know if this is just a function of the people I follow,

1117
01:24:30,175 --> 01:24:36,675
or if it's, you know, kind of the general, I almost hate to use the word vibe. Vibe coding

1118
01:24:36,675 --> 01:24:43,155
has ruined the word vibe for me. But the general vibe, you know, I don't know. I felt like Noster

1119
01:24:43,155 --> 01:24:46,275
in 2025 became a bit

1120
01:24:46,275 --> 01:24:48,015
cliquish

1121
01:24:48,015 --> 01:24:50,555
and that may

1122
01:24:50,555 --> 01:24:53,015
be a result of

1123
01:24:53,015 --> 01:24:55,155
needing better discoverability

1124
01:24:55,155 --> 01:24:58,155
better ways to find

1125
01:24:58,155 --> 01:25:00,275
new people and new content to follow

1126
01:25:00,275 --> 01:25:02,735
but you know

1127
01:25:02,735 --> 01:25:05,295
it just seems like there's a few groups

1128
01:25:05,295 --> 01:25:07,395
that congregate

1129
01:25:07,395 --> 01:25:10,235
in the Noster sphere with each other

1130
01:25:10,235 --> 01:25:12,895
and if you're part of those groups

1131
01:25:12,895 --> 01:25:15,795
you are having a good time.

1132
01:25:15,915 --> 01:25:19,755
And if you're not, you're trying to find your place.

1133
01:25:19,935 --> 01:25:21,675
And maybe that's just a human thing too.

1134
01:25:21,795 --> 01:25:23,815
That's kind of how it ends up being in real life.

1135
01:25:23,815 --> 01:25:30,955
But Noster felt click-ish, if that makes sense, in 2025.

1136
01:25:31,175 --> 01:25:32,655
And I don't see that as a positive.

1137
01:25:33,855 --> 01:25:40,315
Yeah, like you don't think having a bunch of Noster High Councils out there is positive.

1138
01:25:42,895 --> 01:25:49,855
i don't know you know people i mean i will i will zoom out on that though because if if it could you

1139
01:25:49,855 --> 01:25:54,095
know i always i can't help it um because i'm looking at culture through the bitcoin lens

1140
01:25:54,095 --> 01:26:00,895
the pleb culture uh pioneer culture uh we've definitely evaded i felt like uh nostre was

1141
01:26:00,895 --> 01:26:09,015
definitely a safe space from the bitcoin twitter strategic reserve bitcoin treasury all the kind of

1142
01:26:09,015 --> 01:26:11,135
the things you can kind of see through as a,

1143
01:26:11,135 --> 01:26:14,035
someone that's been through the ups and downs of,

1144
01:26:14,035 --> 01:26:15,335
of cycles.

1145
01:26:15,475 --> 01:26:15,915
And,

1146
01:26:16,015 --> 01:26:16,875
and I don't know,

1147
01:26:16,935 --> 01:26:21,275
I felt like we kind of held strong on that and that we still are.

1148
01:26:21,375 --> 01:26:22,415
So in that way,

1149
01:26:22,415 --> 01:26:23,615
we kind of are a bigger,

1150
01:26:23,735 --> 01:26:30,055
we are a click in itself versus the Bitcoin Twitter type of mythology.

1151
01:26:30,055 --> 01:26:31,355
So I don't know.

1152
01:26:31,415 --> 01:26:32,675
I kind of like that aspect.

1153
01:26:34,195 --> 01:26:38,175
One of the things I noticed on the last,

1154
01:26:38,175 --> 01:26:52,935
I'd say months or so, is this notion of we're coming into the first round of I have to shuffle my follows kind of thing in Noster.

1155
01:26:53,075 --> 01:26:58,155
So this happened to me on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram as well.

1156
01:26:58,775 --> 01:27:07,475
But like after the third or fourth year, those people that were there with you are either not there anymore or they're not interesting anymore.

1157
01:27:07,475 --> 01:27:11,115
because you grew up out of that space or because something else happened,

1158
01:27:11,915 --> 01:27:15,495
but you were still looking at those same posts over and over again.

1159
01:27:15,495 --> 01:27:19,855
So it just phases out, and you have to kind of reconnect

1160
01:27:19,855 --> 01:27:22,855
and restart your circle of follows.

1161
01:27:23,875 --> 01:27:27,795
And I hope we can develop some tools to help people refresh

1162
01:27:27,795 --> 01:27:32,775
what they have been seeing on Oster and kind of discover new content,

1163
01:27:32,915 --> 01:27:34,675
find new friends, and find new interests.

1164
01:27:34,675 --> 01:27:40,035
because in the end, the main issue of platforms like Noster

1165
01:27:40,035 --> 01:27:44,095
is that we declare our follows early on.

1166
01:27:44,535 --> 01:27:47,055
And in the first three or four months or so,

1167
01:27:47,755 --> 01:27:51,195
we are discovering a lot of cool people that we engage with.

1168
01:27:52,055 --> 01:27:54,195
And after a while, we stop doing that

1169
01:27:54,195 --> 01:27:58,095
and we just use what we made on the follow list.

1170
01:27:58,735 --> 01:28:03,135
And then after two or three years, you yourself is going to change

1171
01:28:03,135 --> 01:28:07,895
And you need new friends, new follows, new interests, new things showing up.

1172
01:28:08,375 --> 01:28:16,255
And I think we are in the first wave of like now we need to transition people that have been with us for three years into some type of new follow structure.

1173
01:28:16,555 --> 01:28:24,095
And help them out, figure out new interests and new things and make them, you know, get them to build new things together with each other.

1174
01:28:25,255 --> 01:28:26,715
Either for fun or for work.

1175
01:28:26,875 --> 01:28:31,515
But that process is cyclical and will happen again.

1176
01:28:31,515 --> 01:28:37,015
So we need to enhance our tooling to get them to actually go through it nicely.

1177
01:28:37,615 --> 01:28:59,015
I think it would be cool if our apps, our client apps, instead of showing us how many followers we have, if there was a way to more easily navigate or see who we are interacting with, what content we are interacting with.

1178
01:28:59,015 --> 01:29:08,835
I mean, I kind of know from day to day who I see in my notifications or who I'm replying to on a regular basis.

1179
01:29:08,835 --> 01:29:23,055
But I think having a way to really see that in front of my face and create a list of those accounts, those people, because it's probably people that I'm not following.

1180
01:29:23,375 --> 01:29:27,775
But if I'm interacting with them all the time, I probably want to.

1181
01:29:27,775 --> 01:29:33,675
but it's just a little tedious and time-consuming to do that manually.

1182
01:29:34,855 --> 01:29:39,635
So I think if the focus could shift from followers

1183
01:29:39,635 --> 01:29:45,835
to who am I being social with on a regular basis,

1184
01:29:47,015 --> 01:29:49,515
if I could see that information, that would be awesome.

1185
01:29:51,795 --> 01:29:54,275
Web of Trust fixes this, Vito.

1186
01:29:54,895 --> 01:29:55,715
Yep, yeah.

1187
01:29:57,775 --> 01:30:05,535
And then you realize that you have been talking to a Japanese person all along, and they use Nostar very differently than what we use.

1188
01:30:05,955 --> 01:30:11,495
So you're going to start following them, and you don't understand anything that they're talking about because it's just half.

1189
01:30:12,695 --> 01:30:15,195
The context for their conversations is not on the tweet.

1190
01:30:15,575 --> 01:30:19,635
So you have to actually follow their structure to understand what they're saying.

1191
01:30:20,815 --> 01:30:21,955
That's a major issue there.

1192
01:30:21,955 --> 01:30:29,415
I will say on the topic of followers, this was probably the first year where, and this is around

1193
01:30:29,415 --> 01:30:35,035
the Nostra is dead stuff that was happening sometime in the summer. I actually did have to

1194
01:30:35,035 --> 01:30:49,273
kind of dig deep and get rid of clean up a lot of my followers a lot of the sorry rather the people I was following Clean that up and then follow several more fresh endpubs

1195
01:30:49,653 --> 01:30:52,833
Because the old ones, the stale ones, I think they just disappeared.

1196
01:30:54,073 --> 01:30:57,653
And then my timeline was largely empty.

1197
01:30:57,653 --> 01:31:02,553
So I had to actually make a very conscious effort to do that.

1198
01:31:02,893 --> 01:31:03,833
And it helped.

1199
01:31:03,833 --> 01:31:05,513
certainly helped

1200
01:31:05,513 --> 01:31:07,133
in at least

1201
01:31:07,133 --> 01:31:10,393
in repopulating my feed if nothing else

1202
01:31:10,393 --> 01:31:15,233
yeah and I think people that couldn't do that

1203
01:31:15,233 --> 01:31:17,093
end up just leaving Nostrum

1204
01:31:17,093 --> 01:31:19,393
if they didn't figure out how to do that

1205
01:31:19,393 --> 01:31:20,633
how to find new friends

1206
01:31:20,633 --> 01:31:23,053
they end up getting to the stage

1207
01:31:23,053 --> 01:31:25,513
where just like you said my feed is kind of stale

1208
01:31:25,513 --> 01:31:27,393
and or I don't care

1209
01:31:27,393 --> 01:31:29,313
about these things as much anymore

1210
01:31:29,313 --> 01:31:31,313
then

1211
01:31:31,313 --> 01:31:33,093
if you don't have the tools in front of you

1212
01:31:33,093 --> 01:31:35,113
to just press a button, kind of change things around.

1213
01:31:36,073 --> 01:31:37,093
You might just leave.

1214
01:31:41,473 --> 01:31:42,113
All right.

1215
01:31:42,413 --> 01:31:45,453
Let's do, maybe go back to you, Korn,

1216
01:31:45,933 --> 01:31:50,793
and maybe we'll do a quick one of what went well in 2025,

1217
01:31:51,213 --> 01:31:57,633
and if you have a related one, what you're looking forward to in 2026.

1218
01:31:57,813 --> 01:31:59,853
And if not, they could be two separate things.

1219
01:32:00,253 --> 01:32:01,033
Let's do that.

1220
01:32:03,093 --> 01:32:07,953
let's see, went well in 2025.

1221
01:32:09,953 --> 01:32:11,253
Okay, I already covered that one.

1222
01:32:13,493 --> 01:32:15,713
Well, I just had that, you know, we did, we had,

1223
01:32:16,053 --> 01:32:20,633
we still had several NOSTER focused events and meetups.

1224
01:32:20,633 --> 01:32:24,613
We saw NOS Vegas, which was the after party,

1225
01:32:24,973 --> 01:32:26,493
I believe at the Bitcoin conference.

1226
01:32:28,853 --> 01:32:32,033
NOSTER Asia, I remember seeing all over the feed.

1227
01:32:32,033 --> 01:32:39,133
Nostrebama I heard about quite a bit. And then probably a lot of others that I just don't have,

1228
01:32:39,873 --> 01:32:52,133
didn't come to mind. And I think looking forward into 2026, I would love to see more focus on

1229
01:32:52,133 --> 01:33:01,133
that kind of culture, artists, content creators. You know, we have a lot of really talented people,

1230
01:33:01,133 --> 01:33:03,113
even though we're a small user base

1231
01:33:03,113 --> 01:33:04,753
we do have a lot of really talented people

1232
01:33:04,753 --> 01:33:06,993
merchants, we have a ton

1233
01:33:06,993 --> 01:33:09,093
of small merchants making

1234
01:33:09,093 --> 01:33:11,173
and selling crafts or

1235
01:33:11,173 --> 01:33:12,513
soap or wine

1236
01:33:12,513 --> 01:33:13,893
all kinds of stuff

1237
01:33:13,893 --> 01:33:17,193
and so I would love to just

1238
01:33:17,193 --> 01:33:19,233
see kind of that focus

1239
01:33:19,233 --> 01:33:19,833
on

1240
01:33:19,833 --> 01:33:25,273
really enabling and empowering them

1241
01:33:25,273 --> 01:33:26,953
in those meetups

1242
01:33:26,953 --> 01:33:28,133
in those live settings

1243
01:33:28,133 --> 01:33:30,093
giving that connection

1244
01:33:30,093 --> 01:33:33,313
to the rest of Nostr.

1245
01:33:34,093 --> 01:33:37,533
But yeah, I would just love to see more of that.

1246
01:33:39,353 --> 01:33:41,373
Yeah, the meatspace convergence.

1247
01:33:41,753 --> 01:33:44,333
And I think that actually is something

1248
01:33:44,333 --> 01:33:46,673
I'm looking forward to as well.

1249
01:33:46,753 --> 01:33:48,753
And I've seen enough evidence of that.

1250
01:33:49,693 --> 01:33:52,653
Like, you know, with these Nostr storefronts

1251
01:33:52,653 --> 01:33:54,073
like Shopster, like Conduit,

1252
01:33:54,633 --> 01:33:57,593
like Plebeon, which is just being relaunched

1253
01:33:57,593 --> 01:34:00,493
and with NIP99, essentially.

1254
01:34:00,653 --> 01:34:03,573
I think we're going to see a lot more of those products and services

1255
01:34:03,573 --> 01:34:07,653
permeating at meetups and elsewhere.

1256
01:34:09,333 --> 01:34:13,733
I think a couple of the Meetspace meetups you missed, Korn,

1257
01:34:13,733 --> 01:34:16,353
there was Nostashire in Manchester.

1258
01:34:16,553 --> 01:34:19,813
There was Nostaville at Bitcoin Park.

1259
01:34:20,033 --> 01:34:21,833
I can't remember if you said Nostavalle.

1260
01:34:22,373 --> 01:34:25,713
There were a lot more, and I think we'll see.

1261
01:34:25,713 --> 01:34:31,153
I am looking forward to certainly physical embassies for Bitcoin and Nostra like PubKey,

1262
01:34:31,853 --> 01:34:35,453
like the Cyphermunk House in London, like Bitcoin Park, like the,

1263
01:34:37,233 --> 01:34:43,513
well, there's some things cooking in Austin as well. Maybe I'll just leave it at that for now.

1264
01:34:44,173 --> 01:34:49,173
And I suspect we will see a lot of that. And that is something to definitely look forward to,

1265
01:34:49,233 --> 01:34:55,173
right? These physical embassies, these meatspace locations where Nostrages can come together,

1266
01:34:55,173 --> 01:35:00,513
maybe even safe spaces to do exchanges or whatever it might be, right?

1267
01:35:01,453 --> 01:35:05,593
Sometimes you need walls for certain conversations and certain transactions.

1268
01:35:06,873 --> 01:35:11,933
And a lot more, just cultural gatherings, music events, and so on.

1269
01:35:12,313 --> 01:35:14,133
Certainly something to look forward to.

1270
01:35:15,953 --> 01:35:20,493
Vitor, something that went well this year.

1271
01:35:20,493 --> 01:35:25,413
and if you have a related one, something to look forward to or it could be unrelated.

1272
01:35:26,233 --> 01:35:31,073
Well, something we did that I'm extremely proud of from Amethyst

1273
01:35:31,073 --> 01:35:34,413
is that we shipped a version in the middle of the year

1274
01:35:34,413 --> 01:35:41,833
that moved the client from a static relay list to an outbox model.

1275
01:35:42,433 --> 01:35:50,033
But we did in such a way that allowed Amethyst to connect to thousands of relays in one session.

1276
01:35:50,033 --> 01:36:02,873
So if you log into Amethyst right now and you are following enough people, Amethyst will connect to up to 1,000 different relays to pick the events from each one of them.

1277
01:36:04,013 --> 01:36:14,393
And that was innovative enough to me because everybody told me that that couldn't work, that you can't get a phone to connect to 1,000 relays, 1,000 servers.

1278
01:36:14,393 --> 01:36:15,193
That doesn't work.

1279
01:36:15,353 --> 01:36:16,813
It's going to use too much data.

1280
01:36:16,813 --> 01:36:21,853
the android is going to kill you for that or you're going to use too much battery and there

1281
01:36:21,853 --> 01:36:29,013
are too many issues around it and it turns out we can actually do that so to me it enables a new

1282
01:36:29,013 --> 01:36:35,373
phase of Noster that I really want to see moving forward which is this more self-hosting things

1283
01:36:35,373 --> 01:36:42,633
especially for creators especially for say things like dms and in your own posts maybe a blossom

1284
01:36:42,633 --> 01:36:48,353
server, maybe self-hosting from the client itself.

1285
01:36:48,613 --> 01:36:52,693
We were talking just this morning on how Amethyst could help you set up.

1286
01:36:52,973 --> 01:36:56,773
Instead of helping you set up relays that already exist and just put the relay on your

1287
01:36:56,773 --> 01:37:03,613
list, we could actually have screens that in one or two buttons, we can deploy a server

1288
01:37:03,613 --> 01:37:12,213
for you with that fully set up that you can control your posts or DMs or files.

1289
01:37:12,633 --> 01:37:26,873
And I think that notion, that new level of, like, well, now we can actually talk to all of these personal servers out there, and apps would figure out how to make things work, is new.

1290
01:37:27,193 --> 01:37:29,373
And I want to explore more of that.

1291
01:37:29,373 --> 01:37:38,013
okay, let's see how far in the decentralization spectrum we can take Nostar from the centralized relays we have today,

1292
01:37:38,173 --> 01:37:40,973
which is decentralized enough, but we could do better,

1293
01:37:41,533 --> 01:37:45,913
and to a point where maybe each user has their own relays,

1294
01:37:46,013 --> 01:37:49,513
and they keep full control over their data.

1295
01:37:49,653 --> 01:37:57,633
There is nobody that's going to delete their results or create fake web of trust results for them

1296
01:37:57,633 --> 01:38:13,490
or sell ads based on that inference So I think the future is bright from that side And it always for from you know a myth that we all the devs all knew that we couldn make this work um before the middle of the year

1297
01:38:13,490 --> 01:38:19,750
i think the highest number of relays any client would connect to is 50 which is definitely not

1298
01:38:19,750 --> 01:38:26,470
enough for this level of decentralizations where where every person has a personal server or a

1299
01:38:26,470 --> 01:38:28,030
personal relay in the cloud.

1300
01:38:28,570 --> 01:38:30,870
And we could do this as a NIP.

1301
01:38:31,070 --> 01:38:36,070
We could have a client that helps you deploy servers,

1302
01:38:36,430 --> 01:38:39,810
and you don't need to have any computer knowledge for that.

1303
01:38:39,870 --> 01:38:41,710
You just have to have the willingness to pay.

1304
01:38:42,790 --> 01:38:48,050
It's very similar to what Albi and AlbiHub is doing these days,

1305
01:38:48,050 --> 01:38:54,630
but instead of doing just a hosting server that the company controls,

1306
01:38:54,630 --> 01:38:57,910
Noster clients that are fully decentralized

1307
01:38:57,910 --> 01:39:03,450
could get you an account at AWS or Google Cloud or Microsoft

1308
01:39:03,450 --> 01:39:05,710
or some of the other providers you would choose

1309
01:39:05,710 --> 01:39:08,630
and ship your own relay there.

1310
01:39:08,990 --> 01:39:10,370
Send all your data over there.

1311
01:39:10,930 --> 01:39:13,470
Set up your profile in that way.

1312
01:39:14,290 --> 01:39:18,290
And all of your other clients will look for your data in your server.

1313
01:39:18,750 --> 01:39:20,450
So if you're being attacked in any way,

1314
01:39:20,450 --> 01:39:26,410
or if you are being censored by anyone,

1315
01:39:26,670 --> 01:39:28,570
you can just put your own server up.

1316
01:39:29,110 --> 01:39:32,170
And it's going to be much better from a freedom perspective

1317
01:39:32,170 --> 01:39:35,370
than what we have until the middle of the year or so.

1318
01:39:40,610 --> 01:39:45,490
And one of those things could be like a web of trust service provider

1319
01:39:45,490 --> 01:39:49,250
that each person can deploy for themselves.

1320
01:39:49,250 --> 01:40:01,630
So they not only fully control the algorithm that this thing is running, because they can just speak into a different server, but they also control the operational capacity of that server.

1321
01:40:02,030 --> 01:40:11,970
Meaning there is no company that can get in between those two and start tracking people or, you know, having shady business practices with people's data.

1322
01:40:12,870 --> 01:40:18,710
And that's going to be like, I think, a new epoch for NOS as an ecosystem.

1323
01:40:18,710 --> 01:40:22,610
We're going to have a new age of decentralization if that works.

1324
01:40:25,530 --> 01:40:26,170
Love it.

1325
01:40:26,410 --> 01:40:28,610
So if I had to summarize this entire conversation,

1326
01:40:28,810 --> 01:40:32,350
2026 is going to be the year of web of trust.

1327
01:40:32,470 --> 01:40:34,670
It's going to be the year of curation and discovery.

1328
01:40:34,830 --> 01:40:36,310
It's going to be the year of music.

1329
01:40:36,570 --> 01:40:39,170
It's going to be the year of live streaming.

1330
01:40:39,930 --> 01:40:42,070
It's going to be the year of shopping

1331
01:40:42,070 --> 01:40:45,750
and the convergence of the physical and the digital.

1332
01:40:45,750 --> 01:40:54,650
but one thing it is not going to be is the year of the dm is that fair oh no i i have hopes i have

1333
01:40:54,650 --> 01:40:59,350
hopes you know i i'm a hopeful person that or or gif keyboard yeah

1334
01:40:59,350 --> 01:41:05,670
please the different the different keyboard definitely like you know forget about it

1335
01:41:05,670 --> 01:41:08,730
dms are easier than the gif keyboard

1336
01:41:08,730 --> 01:41:15,190
at least you came out with the you came out with the first interpretation though vitor i'll give

1337
01:41:15,190 --> 01:41:23,270
that you did you did add uh some sort of gif keyboard oh fabian did

1338
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:28,610
vitar and fabian are the only ones who fabian with nostor

1339
01:41:28,610 --> 01:41:37,410
like every time i post a gif i have to go to nostor to do it and you know the funny thing is it's he

1340
01:41:37,410 --> 01:41:43,390
And he has had that in his app since, I think, like early 2023.

1341
01:41:43,850 --> 01:41:47,890
I mean, basically since he started putting the app out there.

1342
01:41:48,510 --> 01:41:53,350
So honestly, when it all first came up, I just thought, oh, okay, cool.

1343
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:58,150
Fabian figured it out, and there's probably a couple other apps that might do it.

1344
01:41:58,310 --> 01:41:59,330
Hey, we need this.

1345
01:41:59,990 --> 01:42:02,270
And then it kind of took on a life of its own.

1346
01:42:02,270 --> 01:42:04,790
And I don't know.

1347
01:42:04,790 --> 01:42:21,950
I do love posting GIFs, but it's kind of more symbolic of just the user needs, user wants, whatever you want to call it, you know, versus whatever is on the developer's roadmap.

1348
01:42:22,930 --> 01:42:24,310
And, you know, where do those...

1349
01:42:24,310 --> 01:42:29,190
To be fair, I was surprised by the defensiveness of, like, we are not going to do this.

1350
01:42:30,410 --> 01:42:31,910
Or, like, we don't have time for this.

1351
01:42:31,910 --> 01:42:34,090
And I'm like, this is just a fucking button.

1352
01:42:34,090 --> 01:42:36,390
And it's like, what's the issue here?

1353
01:42:37,550 --> 01:42:37,950
Anyway.

1354
01:42:38,790 --> 01:42:43,950
Well, GIFs, don't you know, Vitor, unruggable GIFs.

1355
01:42:44,090 --> 01:42:44,910
That's what we need.

1356
01:42:45,530 --> 01:42:49,970
The scourge of GIF ruggings that the world has faced.

1357
01:42:51,670 --> 01:42:56,590
I did learn today, at least this is based on what AI told me,

1358
01:42:56,590 --> 01:43:01,450
that using GIFs on social media and in messaging apps

1359
01:43:01,450 --> 01:43:05,530
is apparently a very millennial thing.

1360
01:43:05,670 --> 01:43:08,170
And I don't typically identify as a millennial.

1361
01:43:08,990 --> 01:43:12,870
I'm kind of in that generation that's on the edge

1362
01:43:12,870 --> 01:43:15,430
between millennial and Gen X.

1363
01:43:15,830 --> 01:43:18,990
But apparently that's my millennial side coming through

1364
01:43:18,990 --> 01:43:20,370
that I want to have GIFs.

1365
01:43:20,770 --> 01:43:22,370
So I don't know if I'm okay with that or not.

1366
01:43:23,150 --> 01:43:25,090
Well, we created the memes.

1367
01:43:25,090 --> 01:43:26,230
Right, yeah.

1368
01:43:26,590 --> 01:43:28,190
We've got to own it.

1369
01:43:30,050 --> 01:43:33,910
So maybe, Con, that puts things in a new light.

1370
01:43:34,070 --> 01:43:36,150
Maybe these people were looking out for you.

1371
01:43:36,530 --> 01:43:41,830
They were trying to let you hold on to your honorable Gen X roots

1372
01:43:41,830 --> 01:43:44,430
rather than sliding into millennial decadence.

1373
01:43:44,850 --> 01:43:45,930
That's it. That's it.

1374
01:43:46,850 --> 01:43:49,850
I still want it, though.

1375
01:43:50,750 --> 01:43:51,590
I still want it.

1376
01:43:52,030 --> 01:43:55,590
I'm happy that Fabian's app gives it to me.

1377
01:43:56,590 --> 01:44:00,810
I would love to have it in every app, but there are.

1378
01:44:00,990 --> 01:44:02,670
Next year, AI is going to do that for you.

1379
01:44:02,810 --> 01:44:03,450
Hey, there you go.

1380
01:44:03,610 --> 01:44:03,730
Yeah.

1381
01:44:04,090 --> 01:44:06,390
It's just like they generate the gift from scratch.

1382
01:44:06,450 --> 01:44:08,950
It's like they don't need to use other people's pictures.

1383
01:44:10,810 --> 01:44:14,990
Avi, don't let me hijack if you're taking this in a different direction.

1384
01:44:15,130 --> 01:44:16,730
But Vitor, you mentioned AI,

1385
01:44:16,870 --> 01:44:20,830
and that's one of the things I actually meant to put on my list of looking forward to.

1386
01:44:20,830 --> 01:44:30,890
I would love to see more integration with AI into Nostre clients.

1387
01:44:32,110 --> 01:44:34,390
And I don't know exactly the right fit for that.

1388
01:44:34,390 --> 01:44:41,490
But I do still use X to follow news and certain political accounts and that kind of thing.

1389
01:44:41,630 --> 01:44:48,190
And the integration with Grok into X, I have found it useful.

1390
01:44:48,190 --> 01:44:55,990
whether it's researching a post or usually that's kind of how I use it.

1391
01:44:56,050 --> 01:44:57,770
But I have found it very useful.

1392
01:44:58,570 --> 01:45:03,250
And I would love to see something like that in a Noster client

1393
01:45:03,250 --> 01:45:08,890
where if there's a post that we want to dig into more on that topic,

1394
01:45:09,450 --> 01:45:12,210
we could do that with just the click of a button

1395
01:45:12,210 --> 01:45:14,930
and not having to switch to a new app.

1396
01:45:14,930 --> 01:45:20,270
Is that something that is a good idea people are working on?

1397
01:45:20,270 --> 01:45:22,010
Or what are your thoughts?

1398
01:45:23,970 --> 01:45:32,628
People are working on it I think some clients try to integrate these APIs The issue is that you know Grok is free right

1399
01:45:33,508 --> 01:45:35,068
Otherwise, for us, it will be paid.

1400
01:45:35,888 --> 01:45:40,488
So you get some value out of Twitter just because they're giving it away for free kind of thing.

1401
01:45:40,908 --> 01:45:45,608
The same as if you use Google on their system, on Google Search, for instance.

1402
01:45:46,148 --> 01:45:50,188
But if you use Google from a Nostar client, then you have to pay.

1403
01:45:50,188 --> 01:45:53,688
And then it becomes like, you know, a $10 to $20 a month kind of thing.

1404
01:45:54,448 --> 01:46:01,688
And then the equation of is this useful to me or not at the cost of $10 a month changes things.

1405
01:46:02,248 --> 01:46:06,448
And I think people are not super happy about those price points.

1406
01:46:07,528 --> 01:46:12,668
And the flip side, I think people have been trying to do local AIs as well.

1407
01:46:12,668 --> 01:46:17,808
So download the model and run it locally or run it in the relay.

1408
01:46:17,808 --> 01:46:21,768
and then you have more interesting data to go through.

1409
01:46:22,488 --> 01:46:24,368
But they are not good.

1410
01:46:24,948 --> 01:46:27,788
These AIs are lacking so much.

1411
01:46:28,108 --> 01:46:31,808
And you ask basic questions and they do not know how to respond to it.

1412
01:46:32,608 --> 01:46:34,728
So I don't know exactly what's missing there.

1413
01:46:36,608 --> 01:46:41,868
Personally, what I hate, I actually don't like the chat interface for AI.

1414
01:46:42,368 --> 01:46:47,228
For all the things I have used AI for, the chat is my least interesting option.

1415
01:46:47,228 --> 01:46:55,028
You know, when I'm coding and that is AI integrated on my editor, AI would just give something to me.

1416
01:46:55,108 --> 01:47:00,108
It's like I'm coding something and then suddenly there is a button that says, oh, you're doing this wrong.

1417
01:47:00,288 --> 01:47:01,608
Do this in this other way.

1418
01:47:02,128 --> 01:47:10,128
Or, you know, maybe rephrase this line to mean something else because your code is not matching the variable name kind of thing.

1419
01:47:10,128 --> 01:47:17,388
so it's kind of like running in the background automated and it just pops in when it feels like

1420
01:47:17,388 --> 01:47:24,268
it can help me to me that is a way more interesting use of ai than having to ask and having to reply

1421
01:47:24,268 --> 01:47:29,248
and have to review your prompt because you didn't really get enough information you need you didn't

1422
01:47:29,248 --> 01:47:34,268
really give enough information to the ai in the first place so it's it's i don't like that back

1423
01:47:34,268 --> 01:47:35,368
and fourth of the chat.

1424
01:47:35,988 --> 01:47:40,368
If we can make it work with like integrated in our interfaces

1425
01:47:40,368 --> 01:47:44,528
with more context in some tweets, for instance,

1426
01:47:44,648 --> 01:47:48,228
or I think Brock does this with some extra information

1427
01:47:48,228 --> 01:47:49,708
for tweets, for instance,

1428
01:47:50,108 --> 01:47:52,648
but it should work with pictures, with videos,

1429
01:47:52,868 --> 01:47:54,128
with everybody else, right?

1430
01:47:54,208 --> 01:47:56,488
Like translations, for instance, is a big one

1431
01:47:56,488 --> 01:48:00,808
that we do with a model that now is like 15 years old

1432
01:48:00,808 --> 01:48:02,008
to translate text.

1433
01:48:02,008 --> 01:48:04,948
and it works okay-ish.

1434
01:48:05,588 --> 01:48:09,588
The new models that are LLM-based work so much better,

1435
01:48:10,028 --> 01:48:11,928
but they all need a server to work.

1436
01:48:12,488 --> 01:48:15,148
And that means that your, say, your DMs,

1437
01:48:15,248 --> 01:48:18,168
if your client has DMs and you need translation,

1438
01:48:19,088 --> 01:48:21,288
the tax on your DMs is going to the server and back.

1439
01:48:22,128 --> 01:48:24,868
And that, to me, is a big no-no.

1440
01:48:24,868 --> 01:48:27,788
Like, you cannot leak that information to other folks.

1441
01:48:28,408 --> 01:48:31,168
So to me, personally, it has to run locally.

1442
01:48:31,168 --> 01:48:38,208
And that is a challenge because phones just do not have the power right now to run those AI models.

1443
01:48:38,908 --> 01:48:48,168
But maybe someday it works and we can find a way to integrate it really well or in a way that is free like Twitter does.

1444
01:48:50,048 --> 01:48:52,548
I think that does sound like the challenge though, right?

1445
01:48:52,768 --> 01:48:55,028
How can you do it in a way that's free and private?

1446
01:48:56,108 --> 01:48:58,448
On X, it's neither, right?

1447
01:48:58,448 --> 01:49:07,108
it's yes grok is convenient but you're being completely harvested um and you know it's free

1448
01:49:07,108 --> 01:49:13,268
in the sense that actually is grok free with the non-premium x accounts code i think you need a

1449
01:49:13,268 --> 01:49:20,408
blue check to use grok no i don't think i don't think if you're just asking like if you're looking

1450
01:49:20,408 --> 01:49:25,748
at an individual post on the app at least there's a little grok button and you can hit it and it'll

1451
01:49:25,748 --> 01:49:27,108
Kind of give you extra context.

1452
01:49:27,508 --> 01:49:30,228
I don't know at what point.

1453
01:49:30,228 --> 01:49:32,348
I have to use the Plist Grok without having an account.

1454
01:49:32,648 --> 01:49:35,368
It works and it replies great.

1455
01:49:35,568 --> 01:49:36,588
It replies like Gemini.

1456
01:49:36,948 --> 01:49:38,888
So they have the full model running there.

1457
01:49:40,868 --> 01:49:43,728
I'm not sure how to afford that from a client's perspective.

1458
01:49:43,728 --> 01:49:44,148
Yeah.

1459
01:49:46,148 --> 01:49:47,388
That is a challenge.

1460
01:49:48,068 --> 01:49:48,488
All right, folks.

1461
01:49:48,568 --> 01:49:51,608
We are approaching getting close to the two-hour mark.

1462
01:49:51,968 --> 01:49:54,188
I think it's been a great conversation.

1463
01:49:54,188 --> 01:49:57,628
and I think we ended on a positive note

1464
01:49:57,628 --> 01:50:01,048
even though I had to use the words X in grok,

1465
01:50:01,308 --> 01:50:01,828
but that's okay.

1466
01:50:03,368 --> 01:50:03,928
It's Twitter.

1467
01:50:04,668 --> 01:50:05,388
It's not X.

1468
01:50:05,388 --> 01:50:08,928
I refuse to say X.

1469
01:50:11,688 --> 01:50:12,328
Agreed.

1470
01:50:12,448 --> 01:50:13,048
It is hard.

1471
01:50:14,928 --> 01:50:16,208
QW, any closing thoughts?

1472
01:50:17,488 --> 01:50:19,908
Closing thoughts is every year,

1473
01:50:20,188 --> 01:50:22,168
last year, the year before,

1474
01:50:22,168 --> 01:50:29,068
year next year year after i see the news i see the stuff going on right now and the only

1475
01:50:29,068 --> 01:50:36,188
the big solution to everything is more surveillance more uh censorship uh remember while we're here

1476
01:50:36,188 --> 01:50:46,548
freedom tech uh for the next generation uh my son is playing the guitar in the background so uh

1477
01:50:46,548 --> 01:50:49,968
Build him some tools to play his guitar on.

1478
01:50:50,668 --> 01:50:54,708
Well, if he zapped that, 90% of the boosts will go to him.

1479
01:50:55,588 --> 01:50:56,368
If he boosts that.

1480
01:50:56,788 --> 01:50:57,648
Say, keep building.

1481
01:50:59,168 --> 01:51:00,788
Yeah, there you go, buddy.

1482
01:51:01,568 --> 01:51:02,828
Keep building for them.

1483
01:51:03,048 --> 01:51:03,528
That's it.

1484
01:51:05,888 --> 01:51:06,408
Excellent.

1485
01:51:07,188 --> 01:51:09,088
Well, the show will continue.

1486
01:51:09,528 --> 01:51:10,368
The show will go on.

1487
01:51:10,448 --> 01:51:12,268
This is not the last show of the year.

1488
01:51:12,328 --> 01:51:13,308
There will be a show next year.

1489
01:51:13,308 --> 01:51:15,648
Unfortunately, QW will be back.

1490
01:51:15,648 --> 01:51:17,308
to his hiatus.

1491
01:51:17,488 --> 01:51:19,148
At some point, that hiatus will end

1492
01:51:19,148 --> 01:51:23,748
and it'll be back to regularly scheduled programming.

1493
01:51:24,168 --> 01:51:27,088
But there will be a show next Friday

1494
01:51:27,088 --> 01:51:29,628
and a show the Friday after that on the 2nd of January.

1495
01:51:31,068 --> 01:51:35,148
Korn and Vitor, thank you for joining.

1496
01:51:35,368 --> 01:51:40,508
Thank you for sharing all your list of items,

1497
01:51:40,608 --> 01:51:42,348
what went well, what could have gone better

1498
01:51:42,348 --> 01:51:43,508
and what you're looking forward to.

1499
01:51:43,508 --> 01:51:49,468
I think there is overwhelmingly a lot to look forward to in 2026.

1500
01:51:51,548 --> 01:51:54,948
Thanks for having us, and we will keep coding until morale improves.

1501
01:51:56,848 --> 01:51:59,788
Yes, thank you very much, Avi and QW.

1502
01:52:00,888 --> 01:52:04,068
And Korn will keep memeing until morale improves.

1503
01:52:04,888 --> 01:52:06,528
Or until I need those.

1504
01:52:08,288 --> 01:52:09,928
Hopefully it improves morale.

1505
01:52:09,928 --> 01:52:13,308
I think I have the opposite effect sometimes.

1506
01:52:15,968 --> 01:52:19,128
I might have to come after you again sometime soon.

1507
01:52:22,008 --> 01:52:26,028
And thank you all for listening to this episode.

1508
01:52:26,148 --> 01:52:32,588
I hope you're doing it on a value for value podcasting 2.0 app such as Fountain.

1509
01:52:33,248 --> 01:52:35,728
And if you are on Fountain, we would appreciate it.

1510
01:52:35,728 --> 01:52:37,088
if you hit that subscribe button.

1511
01:52:37,608 --> 01:52:39,628
Your support goes a long way

1512
01:52:39,628 --> 01:52:42,388
in keeping this show sovereign.

1513
01:52:43,508 --> 01:52:44,888
That is all.

1514
01:52:45,088 --> 01:52:46,988
Until next week, goodbye.

1515
01:52:48,408 --> 01:52:48,848
Goodbye.