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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses

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on the intersection of NOSTER and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current

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thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,

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doers, and plebs.

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All right, we are live.

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Welcome, gentle plebs, to the 129th show of Pleb Chain Radio.

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Avi is finding home right now.

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Actually, he's been in Paraguay for the last two weeks filming.

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Looking forward to that episode.

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And I'm sure we'll talk more about his journey in finding home next week, next Friday.

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He will be back, and we'll be back on the ones and twos like normal.

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So this show is streamed live on Zap.Stream and any other Nostra client that supports streaming such as Amethyst, Nostr, Fountain, and Primal.

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I'd like to remind you about always listening to the recording on Fountain and consider hitting the subscribe for access to the bonus episodes.

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A little bit about culture right now.

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We had a big event happen last week and I couldn't even record last week.

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My whole family was sick.

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so I was the bigger man and I said you know what I gotta cancel this recording

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and here I am this week so it's been two weeks but last week was a kind of a shit show in regards

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in my opinion of social media so it's something that maybe it was meant to be that I took a week

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off but that doesn't matter when it comes to the alliance I want to shout out to the alliance which

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is the group of solo miners that actually are coming together for the upendo block party

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for the bounty mining that we do on a daily basis, 24-7.

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So we're approaching about 420 members.

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And I just want to take a moment to appreciate that

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because there's a lot of people that want to get into mining,

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spread the hash around, and they have no idea where to start.

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Let's make it a community thing.

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So we created the alliance.

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It's fun.

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We learn.

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And we have a common goal.

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Take down the fortress that is foundry and ant pool.

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and all these other just hogs in the mempool.

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So any way we can decentralize the hash, have some fun, gamify it.

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That's what Alliance is all about.

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Shout out Wrigley and the up-end-o block party.

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The next block party is going to be not this Saturday, but next.

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I believe that is the 27th.

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But it's biweekly, and we just start channeling hash

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and try to hit a block for a good cause.

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So more on that.

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You can just reach me on Noster or you'll see Alliance.

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In regards to the sermon this week, I really kind of reflected having social kind of off Noster for the past week.

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A lot of shit going on in my life, and that's great.

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It is what it is.

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Embrace the chaos.

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But I do want to talk about breaking the wedge.

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I believe there is something bigger than the noise, and that's purpose.

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It always has, and it always will be.

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But right now I see a wedge driving through the heart of our purpose. Division is creeping in, splitting the greatest assets to Bitcoin. And I think that's the human layer. Core versus knots, red versus blue, and this relentless tide of what appears to be gore going on at Nostra.

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a lot of videos that maybe I don't want to see, outrage flooding our feeds. And, you know,

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whether it's the Kirk thing, that girl that got stabbed in the neck on the subway. I mean,

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this is just stuff that, you know, it's very polarizing. And it's just, it's not something

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I came to Nostra for, but it is something that we deal with. So I think it's something where we got

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to stop letting things wedge us. Again, I mean, we have a higher purpose. So it's just not,

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noise. It's a weapon, a wedge designed to tear us from each other to make us forget who we are.

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You know, and I'm used to seeing that on X. X is where everyone scrolls or feed.

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Basically, when you scroll your feed on X, it's like stepping into a ring.

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Posts flying like punches, anger amplified until it drowns out reason. That's been the X way.

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But when I turned to Nostra and I remember what we built, a haven home for our beloved pleb

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culture. Nostra is a place where ideas could breathe, where we could be human together. So

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when I see like the last two weeks, what's changing, when did the wedge start slipping

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into even our safest place? I see multiple accounts taking breaks or pumping the brakes.

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I see a lot of knots versus core arguments. And really, it just gets to a point where it's not

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even an argument anymore. It's just a very, it's a passionate faction of just anger, I suppose. So

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So, you know, the truth is, it's not just the platform.

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It's us.

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We're letting the wedge do its work, letting the volume of rage, letting the volume of

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anger rise until it drowns out our better selves.

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The algorithm, the hot takes, the endless scroll, they're built to push us apart to

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make us enemies instead of neighbors.

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But we don't have to let that wedge divide us.

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We can certainly choose to break it.

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Let love prevail.

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When we refuse to let division win, it's in the small acts.

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listening when we want to shout, building when we're tempted to tear down, holding space for each

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other when we don't agree. Our pleb culture, this vibrant, defiant, beautiful thing we've created

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is stronger than any wedge. It's ours to protect, to nurture, to rebuild brick by brick,

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heart by heart. So just stop. And in closing, I'm asking you to choose purpose, to turn down the

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volume on the division and pick up the tools of connection. Let's break the wedge before it breaks

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us. Let's build, let's keep building that unshakable foundation for our culture, our community,

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our children together, undivided, break the wedge. So that's really it. You know, and whether, you

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know, people are angry about things or you, you know, you've been involved in it, or you just

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turned off the socials for a couple of weeks. I think there was a lot of people that are just

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kind of reflecting, even our buddy Korn DeLorean. It's just an interesting time. So, you know,

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the best thing we do is never shift focus from what our purpose is.

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And that's kind of what I wanted to say today.

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So anyways, let's get to the guest segment.

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We have the wonderful, the one and only highly credentialed Rod Palmer from the Bugle.

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And we have the one, the only less credentialed open mic.

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But he does come with an open wallet.

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So that does add to credentials.

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Welcome, boys.

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hey thanks for having me this is great i'm working on i want to talk about your uh credentials

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open mic um where did you go to school we need all the the real credentials you know

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uh university of phoenix at all wildly uncredentialed so i'm here i'm here to learn

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and the key is when you when you don't have credentials you hang out with people that do

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That way you kind of, you know, that merit rubs off.

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Does merit rub off, Rod?

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Well, I want to say, despite credentials, Open Mike is an avid Bitcoin podcast listener.

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And if you don't have credentials, the next best thing you can do is listen to Bitcoin podcast.

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Yeah, yeah.

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The HPW is definitely something.

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And maybe that builds into, you know, NOS or our online identity, that circle of the web of trust where you can log those hours and it kind of levels you up like you're a role player or something.

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Yeah, I mean, it's proof of work.

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You know, this is what I see.

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If you listen to, you can't fake the hours that you listen to, especially if you listen on Fountain, your phone will literally get too hot, like it's burning battery.

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So there's like real work that has to go into listening to 40 hours per week.

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And aside from that, it's like the Grand Canyon.

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When you get to the Grand Canyon, you see it with your own eyes.

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The erosion, the weathering that took place over, you know, centuries, millennia, like that cannot be faked.

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And the same is inherent when you see a Bitcoin podcast listener, just the way they carry themselves, the macro, the education, the thermodynamics, the way that they can communicate.

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It's the proof of work is inherent when you see them.

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And do you feel like that is true to you, Mike?

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You know, it's fake it till you make it, right?

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Maybe you can catch some credentials through Osmosis, hang out with the credentialed, and onward.

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How many Bitcoin podcast t-shirts do you own, Mike?

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Ooh, that's a pretty sizable number.

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I've even got the Bugle crewneck sweatshirt for up here in Minnesota.

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I have a Who is Richard Greaser t-shirt.

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Nice.

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I got from a pleb along the way.

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And, you know, I couldn't tell you if it was Richard or not, but someone did hand me that.

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So shout out to them.

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The comply, the comply sweatshirt is nice to wear around and confuse people.

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So I guess there's a burning question that I have.

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And let's start with you, Rod.

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Are you core or not?

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Well, to be honest with you, neither.

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I run Bugle Core, which is a fork of Libra relay.

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We were the first to actually merge the pull request that was so controversial last May.

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So I actually run my own node, my own version, my own node client custom.

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So neither side of this.

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Your own instance?

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uh yeah yeah you can go to it's richard greasers actually github profile and you can see bugle core

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um what here we're gonna be adding more to it making a little bit more you know we're not we're

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certainly not changing consensus we're not even changing policy we're just gonna be changing a

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few other quirks on there um to make it you know more distinct more more something a pioneer would

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run. Nice. Nice. And what about you, Mike? Are you core or knots? You know, I'm going to stick,

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I'm going to deflect and stick to your sermon. I really appreciated that message and not to.

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It's been a weird couple of weeks in social, man. Yeah. You know, whether, whether I jump

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void, there was always a distinction between when you, when you scroll X and then when you scroll

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Noster. It was never kind of like, there was never really an overlap. And I'm just kind of

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saw that in like the last couple, like the last 10 days, two weeks, whatever. And I'm like, man,

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these, these arguments are actually going, starting at X and then ending in Noster.

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And then we getting screenshots of X. It's like, what is going on here?

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We can do better. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's so,

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I mean I think I don think it a surprise that your your intro sermon lands close because I think it a shared experience that most people are going through right now

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with whatever your views are

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on core knots

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or broader society.

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But I mean,

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if you're on Noster...

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It's easy to lose focus.

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Yeah, if you're on Noster

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and you're in Bitcoin,

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I mean,

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we're pretty goddamn close

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to like being like-minded, right?

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Like, can we just behave that way?

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And, you know, hang out here and stay focused on the purpose?

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I think there's a bigger question.

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Are humans programmed to be one or the other?

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Like there's a certain draw to be in a faction, right?

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And there's always a draw to, you know, be the mean girls.

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And maybe Rod, if you have any insight on that too,

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like, you know, is there a human,

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is human nature just draw you into being a gang you know and then all of a sudden it's

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red is blue yes yeah i think so um last week you talked about last week was a big week

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and i think here's the thing i don't have to even say what videos two main videos that uh

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defined last week you already know what those are because you can't avoid them and i think

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i have a little bit different perspective i think that you might as well look at that stuff now

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because you can't avoid it anymore and i think that the attempt to suppress one side's always

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trying to suppress the other the we don't have to get into to the argument of left versus right

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knots versus core but you just the trying to like suppress that volatility in the conflict

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and the necessity to kind of pick maybe a tribe or pick a uh a way of life or pick

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just how do we you know we thought it's a fourth turning everything kind of boils down to this

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you have to make a choice at a certain point and if you the reason i think that it's gotten

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so extreme and so to this point where it does some of these absolute statements of you have to

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eventually choose i think it's gotten to this point and it's evidence of that that it's even

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on nostr it's even on these more niche or more narrow focus like he talked about when people

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are on nostr mostly because they're a bitcoin or a bitcoin adjacent or they're

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align with scythe or punk ethos or something and it's if it's the that conflict is bled over to

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this point uh how much i mean how how much more redlined could it be if everybody's

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arguing at every end of the internet i i it's it's the uh are these even real people

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is this the dead internet theory uh we've talked about right that's right well that's the other

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thing is the the dead internet theory it's that's we kind of noticed that but now it's the point

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where i don't know if somebody could be so i don't think a bot could be this triggered you know i

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mean it's like it's hard to trigger the bots and you can start to separate them when you get to

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that point when it's so emotional yeah anything to add to that mike no i mean i was i was just

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watching an interview with Adam Carolla yesterday where he was, he was talking about the, um,

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Jimmy Kimmel situation and, you know, he, he talks about the, the cartoonification of everyone.

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And so it's just like, all right, Jimmy Kimmel is now this, um, this role in, in society and

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culture and i thought adam carol did a really nice job of describing his lifelong relationship

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with jimmy and how he disagrees with largely everything politically and yeah they went from

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the man show together too yeah you know and it was him right it was it was adam carol yes i'm

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pretty sure not norma donald oh yeah it was adam it was adam yeah i'm conflating him so it was

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It was really interesting, though.

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He's just like everybody's reduced to just this little like meme character of good, bad, left, right, blue, red.

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And then, you know, when that's the only thing that you know, then you can pretty easily simplify your position and hate on someone and drive you to a really terrible action.

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Yeah.

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Open mic with the noncompliant Internet.

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Are you getting 56K right now open mic?

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Can you hear me now?

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Can you hear me now?

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All right.

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Well, I'm going to shift gears and let's talk about it.

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Is summer over officially, Rod?

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I'm glad you did this because this ties back to my final statement.

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of from the last question is a lot of people who follow us you know we know this little rivalry

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with our friend planetor and planetor kind of crashed out from x a few like a month or two ago

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and he he went to nostor he was going that was going to be his uh escape 24 hours

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we were yeah we we found him on nostril we sent him some paper bitcoin summer videos and he came

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back to X and complained about how it was still poisoned with paper Bitcoins. And people thought

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we were bullying Predator. And that is not the case. We were letting him know there's nowhere

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that he could go, no protocol, no corner in the internet where we wouldn't find him

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and invite him to join us in paper Bitcoin summer. It was actually an outreach. But

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But, you know, paper Bitcoin summer was all the rage in June and July.

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And it's, you know, the weather kind of started to rain, so to speak.

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But it looks like, you know, paper Bitcoin summer is not officially gone.

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It's just a lot of people.

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The party is not as big as it was at the beginning.

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And it's people just need to zoom out and lower their time preference.

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are you talking about the charts uh of these companies or exactly exactly

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the the party was hot and then you know the the pipe investors the pipe investors they sold their

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shares and you know the pre-mines yeah the eggs of liquidity is right now the eggs of liquidity

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is just a little grumpy um but you know everybody's still hopeful long term you know it takes a long

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time for summer to get to finally switch seasons you have a lot of uh give and take and they call

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it indian summer right yeah we're due for it i hate their bitcoin indian summer should they

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decouple from bitcoin i mean is aren't they supposed to be inherently together

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yeah well it's like you've been all this leverage and i'm a credentialed journalist i'm not a

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credentialed finance or a Mac or a person. So I don't, I don't play with leverage and I don't

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know how to explain it. I just know that if you're are, if you're really rich, you can get really

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richer with leverage. And that's what people, that's what favorite Bitcoiners are chasing.

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Yeah. So, I mean, we, we might have to wait till next summer, uh, 2026, you know, and, and for me,

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uh phoenix is very very hot in the summer um you know i'm poolside uh but most for the most part

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i'm in the air conditioning because i'm just sweating bullets all my life there's no way to

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run from that heat uh so it's it's interesting to see the paper bitcoin summer i love the videos

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by the way uh rod i think you made a couple maybe some songs and some videos uh oh yeah

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that is the thing and the best part of paper bitcoin is the hype is the commercials it is

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the marketing the advertising so if you're if you're thinking about you know i don't i don't

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give financial advice i'm a big one only guy i'm only covering paper bitcoin summer i don't

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participate in the in the paper bitcoin mean stocks but if you are thinking about it just know

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that the best part of paper Bitcoin that you're ever going to find,

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that you're ever going to be able to participate in,

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is the commercials, the advertising, the hype.

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And it was very reminiscent of like Miami Vice.

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I lived in South Florida for three years.

250
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I drive down to Miami pretty often.

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I can say I don't think I've seen very many, you know,

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the white pants and the flower shirts and things like that you'd normally see on a

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paper bitcoin summer type of advertisement but there certainly is kind of a draw to that

254
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that beach life in the summer it was that an inspiration yeah well yeah it was also the

255
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maybe not the actual fashion but the vibes you know the 80s wall street remember the wall street

256
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movie and the stock market took off.

257
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Well, like there's a amongst paper Bitcoiners, there is a feeling or a vibe that there's

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this new trend, this new movement that's coming to Wall Street, that's coming to the regulated

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financial markets in the, in the Western United States.

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That's going to be very, you know, similar to the eighties when the stock market was

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reborn in the eighties.

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That's what they're kind of chasing.

263
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That's why they call them the seat corners.

264
00:22:03,412 --> 00:22:06,652
And Mike, did you catch any of that paper, Bitcoin Summer?

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What's kind of a user's point of view or a listener's point of view?

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I know you're a big Bitcoin trading card guy.

267
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So I am.

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You have some elements of shame.

269
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Well, you know, I mean, that was that the original Bitcoin paper?

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Was that that really?

271
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Yeah, I caught the end of that. I got the pop-up from my browser that I wasn't being divisive enough, so I got kicked off the internet.

272
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Oh, man. Thank you, Riverside.

273
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Did they celebrate the Bitcoin summer that far north? Mike?

274
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Yeah, we actually did have Jeff Walton come and speak at our meetup, and he lit the fire all over Minnesota.

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Hey, give me an update on your meetup. How's it going?

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It's great. We're trying to get Avi up here, so now this is on the record, on the show.

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We should have a broadcast here, QW.

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but um yeah are they finding is he trying to find home up there uh we are looking at doing an episode here so um that great they got got a great diversity of food up there Kind of like Phoenix

279
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It's a melting pot plus a lot of different foods.

280
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I can see that being a great location for finding home.

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Yeah, the meetup is great.

282
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We have just a surprising, I mean, to a lot of people, a very surprising community here.

283
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I actually was an anon for so long in Bitcoin that when I finally doxed myself, I went to the Miami conference a few years ago.

284
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I didn't learn about the Minneapolis meetup until somebody down at the conference told me about it.

285
00:24:09,844 --> 00:24:18,864
and yeah we go you know 30 i don't know sometimes 50 deep and it's every month have a speaker

286
00:24:18,864 --> 00:24:26,404
almost every month and really solid bit devs uh justin was on citadel dispatch the other day

287
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um he's one of our he runs our bit devs here um we have a nostor meetup um all kinds of groups

288
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that kind of break off and um it's how many are in your nostril meetup it's usually

289
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six to twelve somewhere in there yeah i mean that's pretty good yeah roster yeah rods was a

290
00:24:51,504 --> 00:24:58,004
early adopter uh he was kind of the nostril nostril rod at the bugle uh i don't i don't i

291
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think he was one of the one of the first that actually started becoming a heavy user uh you

292
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want to talk about that rod yeah yeah i was i i think i created my my end pub and started using

293
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through iris the client uh but it was particularly to to come on and be a guest for the first time

294
00:25:23,664 --> 00:25:35,664
on blockchain um and i i just i like being where i like i like the idea of being an early adopter

295
00:25:35,664 --> 00:25:43,304
and something that has potential and nostr to you had potential and it was interesting and it was

296
00:25:43,304 --> 00:25:49,204
the user experience was just it was not great still isn't but it was just good enough for a

297
00:25:49,204 --> 00:25:56,664
journalists like me to figure out how to get to you know the point where i was able to tell people

298
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good morning and give 40 good mornings a week um and it just getting in the the routine and

299
00:26:05,664 --> 00:26:11,564
seeing how much people appreciate credential journalism on nostr as compared to these other

300
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platforms um it was it was it was a good experience and it was a great place to kind of spread the

301
00:26:20,424 --> 00:26:25,004
word about compliance and some of these other things that that people were not talking about

302
00:26:25,004 --> 00:26:33,544
on other platforms yeah the i mean when we when you talk about the experience i think the one of

303
00:26:33,544 --> 00:26:37,884
the biggest things that's been going on now and i'm not even sure if it's working right now but

304
00:26:37,884 --> 00:26:43,964
the true potential, I think, is starting to get tapped in when you look at that zap.stream

305
00:26:43,964 --> 00:26:50,944
and you think about these live shows that you can actually broadcast across Fountain,

306
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across Noster in general. I mean, it seems like we can, that's the, if you want IRL or real time,

307
00:27:00,084 --> 00:27:04,364
I suppose, shows where you can have comments, you can do, you know, just like you would see on

308
00:27:04,364 --> 00:27:10,604
YouTube or maybe even Twitter, but you have the monetization added to it. I think that's just so

309
00:27:10,604 --> 00:27:16,904
powerful and it really just utilizes how important Noster can be. If I'm on Fountain, I can see, oh,

310
00:27:17,284 --> 00:27:23,244
look at the Bugle's live right now, or I'm on Primal. Oh, look, the Bugle's live right now. So

311
00:27:23,244 --> 00:27:31,464
you don't have to necessarily follow the Bugle and set your calendar for when their show is.

312
00:27:31,464 --> 00:27:36,884
you literally can just be doing what you do in your daily life and say, oh, wow, look at this.

313
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They're on right now. So I think it's kind of powerful in that point. It's just like turning

314
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on the TV back in the day. And we had cable and you just kind of scroll through the channels and

315
00:27:47,744 --> 00:27:52,964
you know, there's the bugle. So you catch whatever, 15 minutes of it, whatever, but

316
00:27:52,964 --> 00:27:58,464
you're not necessarily planning your life around it. So I think just those little things like that.

317
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But then I look at like an event like Toonster, a Toonster event.

318
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You know, those are ones that you kind of set your schedule because it's going to be kind of a maybe a different time.

319
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Maybe it's a Wednesday at 9 p.m. for me.

320
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You know, those those kind of things, they can cater to to the live player as well.

321
00:28:18,444 --> 00:28:25,084
But, Mike, the ZapDot stream, you know, obviously Toonster is a fork of ZapDot stream.

322
00:28:25,084 --> 00:28:28,704
but is it something that plays live on Primal?

323
00:28:29,364 --> 00:28:33,444
Or is it something that, I think I've seen it on Fountain only.

324
00:28:34,544 --> 00:28:38,144
Tell me about how that kind of works on the back end or what you have planned.

325
00:28:39,684 --> 00:28:40,364
Yeah, so it does.

326
00:28:40,584 --> 00:28:41,424
That might have been a long rant.

327
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So if you have anything to add to that, go for it.

328
00:28:45,444 --> 00:28:46,264
No, I love it.

329
00:28:46,264 --> 00:28:50,804
I'm obviously very dialed into the live stream.

330
00:28:50,804 --> 00:28:54,964
and it's great to log into Primal and Fountain

331
00:28:54,964 --> 00:29:00,024
and just see a half dozen active broadcasts going.

332
00:29:00,544 --> 00:29:02,384
And that's the same for Toonster.

333
00:29:02,884 --> 00:29:06,824
When we go live, we show up on the ribbon just like that on those apps.

334
00:29:09,644 --> 00:29:16,884
So it's an interesting time.

335
00:29:16,884 --> 00:29:21,884
It's an interesting form of content to spread the culture.

336
00:29:22,264 --> 00:29:28,124
And I think obviously I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if I wasn't, you know, a perma bull on this.

337
00:29:28,504 --> 00:29:44,844
But we're also in a weird spot with the zaps and, you know, everybody's, you know, saving Bitcoin spending dollars and like the traditional, you know, paper Bitcoin summer messages are really getting out there.

338
00:29:44,844 --> 00:29:53,184
And it's kind of eyebrow raised right now in that point from my perspective.

339
00:29:54,044 --> 00:30:00,004
We really got to get, you know, the Toonster challenges are we've got a ton of people excited.

340
00:30:00,604 --> 00:30:04,544
But to your point, QW, it's a point in time.

341
00:30:04,664 --> 00:30:10,064
So if you don't set your schedule and you don't make it a deliberate effort to be there,

342
00:30:10,064 --> 00:30:17,184
it's really hit or miss on what the results are going to be for these artists.

343
00:30:17,184 --> 00:30:22,444
And if it's somebody coming in for the first time, like the Doomtree guys or

344
00:30:22,444 --> 00:30:29,744
some of these other traditional musicians that were trying to really get excited about it,

345
00:30:30,044 --> 00:30:36,664
to have that be a meaningful number and a really lively chat room is so critical for

346
00:30:36,664 --> 00:30:43,284
for getting getting the results we need to to bring in that outside culture and not just be

347
00:30:43,284 --> 00:30:54,904
in our own echo chamber yeah i i think that's really well said i think my perspective um kind of

348
00:30:54,904 --> 00:31:02,584
is thinking about well i guess i've heard a lot of people talk about

349
00:31:02,584 --> 00:31:06,724
that they think that Noster's kind of maybe in a bear market

350
00:31:06,724 --> 00:31:09,144
or some of the activity's dropping off

351
00:31:09,144 --> 00:31:10,924
or it's gotten somewhat divisive

352
00:31:10,924 --> 00:31:12,964
and it's kind of tuned people away.

353
00:31:14,344 --> 00:31:18,224
But I think my perspective on that is more that

354
00:31:18,224 --> 00:31:22,564
we're in a very special time right now

355
00:31:22,564 --> 00:31:24,324
and it's similar to 2020,

356
00:31:24,684 --> 00:31:26,844
but it's not exactly the same as 2020

357
00:31:26,844 --> 00:31:31,104
where Bitcoin podcasts and the Bitcoin message

358
00:31:31,104 --> 00:31:37,824
and adoption really picked up steam in 2020 because of the unique circumstances and the

359
00:31:37,824 --> 00:31:43,424
problems that people were starting to notice and how Bitcoin could be a solution or tool

360
00:31:43,424 --> 00:31:49,264
to benefit them in that situation or like in this circumstance.

361
00:31:50,204 --> 00:31:54,784
And so there was a lot of people turned to, you know, they were on Clubhouse, they got

362
00:31:54,784 --> 00:31:57,464
on social media and that's how they found Bitcoin Twitter.

363
00:31:58,164 --> 00:32:01,024
And their attention was really focused and they were looking for solutions.

364
00:32:01,104 --> 00:32:14,844
And I think we're kind of entering a moment like that again, where we're entering unique circumstances for political reasons, you know, stuff that's happening in our communities, our societies, in our countries.

365
00:32:15,204 --> 00:32:26,124
And people are really starting to bring their attention, looking for answers, looking for good information, good signal.

366
00:32:26,124 --> 00:32:33,784
and right now all that attention is really on on twitter or you know x and a few other uh platforms

367
00:32:33,784 --> 00:32:40,004
where it's like youtube where it's very podcast where it's very timely like people are streaming

368
00:32:40,004 --> 00:32:48,644
or talking about or having an event or raising awareness and discussing very specific situations

369
00:32:48,644 --> 00:32:52,624
that are unfolding very quickly and that a lot of people's attention are on all over the world

370
00:32:52,624 --> 00:33:19,464
And I think that trying to be cognizant of that and trying to, if you have a unique perspective, an interesting perspective, a helpful perspective to share, sharing that and kind of targeting the content that you create and the messages in the communication that you're having with the public to these more timely, relevant avenues.

371
00:33:19,464 --> 00:33:46,304
I think that there's a lot of opportunity for the value for value kind of ecosystem and ethos and tools for the people who are interested in that and are capable of providing helpful and useful content and information at these times to cure to that audience and try to bring them into the value for value economy.

372
00:33:46,304 --> 00:33:51,204
because I think that the audience has,

373
00:33:51,364 --> 00:33:53,684
you know, the masses want what the masses want.

374
00:33:53,804 --> 00:33:55,404
Like they're incentivized

375
00:33:55,404 --> 00:33:56,924
towards a certain type of content.

376
00:33:57,404 --> 00:34:00,864
And I think it's instead of trying to change

377
00:34:00,864 --> 00:34:02,804
their behaviors and their habits right now,

378
00:34:03,244 --> 00:34:08,024
it's give them an alternative to the psyops

379
00:34:08,024 --> 00:34:10,264
and the channels that they're being kind of

380
00:34:10,264 --> 00:34:12,064
herded to right now

381
00:34:12,064 --> 00:34:15,184
and give them a better opportunity, a better example.

382
00:34:15,184 --> 00:34:17,064
We're trying to do that at the Bugle.

383
00:34:18,584 --> 00:34:22,284
But I think that, you know, our platform is still growing.

384
00:34:22,584 --> 00:34:25,164
And I think there's so much opportunity for bigger platforms.

385
00:34:25,444 --> 00:34:26,664
And you're seeing it somewhat.

386
00:34:27,404 --> 00:34:29,404
That's just kind of my perspective on it, I think.

387
00:34:31,564 --> 00:34:34,804
Is any plan for a Bugle token launch?

388
00:34:36,784 --> 00:34:38,484
No, no Bugle tokens.

389
00:34:40,383 --> 00:34:42,924
We only accept stats for cigarette money.

390
00:34:42,924 --> 00:34:58,604
Yeah. So, I mean, you guys always have taken that angle of satire, satirize the system. And, you know, it's kind of easy to do right now, the way everything's going.

391
00:34:58,604 --> 00:35:16,035
You have these I mean if I look at the factions or if I I mean there nothing more boring to me honestly than listening to someone talk about a Bitcoin treasury company And I think that just turns me off I think it not a value add to the culture So you need these

392
00:35:16,035 --> 00:35:23,175
kind of escape valves, whether it's the bugle or just memes or shitposting. I mean, whatever it is,

393
00:35:23,255 --> 00:35:30,675
it's, you know, I go to Noster to maybe make some memes. Maybe something happened that day that was

394
00:35:30,675 --> 00:35:36,916
funny so there's your trend so now corn's making memes uh we're making jokes about it i mean it's

395
00:35:36,916 --> 00:35:42,775
kind of a a community thing where you have fun with it because you know we are in low time

396
00:35:42,775 --> 00:35:50,376
preference it's a very slow moving process um but maybe that's why outrage and engagement is

397
00:35:50,376 --> 00:35:56,755
is so popular because they need to have something for the day uh maybe because they're not touching

398
00:35:56,755 --> 00:36:06,295
of grass i don't know well my kind of particular uh perspective on the satire's side of it is

399
00:36:06,295 --> 00:36:14,135
there's a lot of things going on every day whether you're you boil it down to the knots versus core

400
00:36:14,135 --> 00:36:19,515
debate or you take it all the way up to the national or global political scale that uh

401
00:36:19,515 --> 00:36:28,515
people are being bombarded with and they don't know how seriously they should take it and if you

402
00:36:28,515 --> 00:36:38,095
can satirize something well um in a timely fashion you're essentially helping people figure out

403
00:36:38,095 --> 00:36:44,295
oh i don't have to take this so seriously like this is silly this is stupid people

404
00:36:44,295 --> 00:36:51,635
shinobi is calling everybody retarded right now um i i don't have to worry about this it's um

405
00:36:51,635 --> 00:36:57,416
you're right like a like a pressure or an escape valve or not an escape valve but a release valve

406
00:36:57,416 --> 00:37:03,175
that's what that's what a lot of people need a release valve something to let them know

407
00:37:03,175 --> 00:37:08,635
it's gonna be they lower their time preference and they listen to 40 hours per week

408
00:37:08,635 --> 00:37:15,356
it can chill out and just enjoy their life go touch grass be with their family they don't have

409
00:37:15,356 --> 00:37:23,235
to worry about this stuff all of it at least yeah i mean that's really similar to the way

410
00:37:23,235 --> 00:37:29,876
we approach live events and concerts and entertainment is that that's an opportunity

411
00:37:29,876 --> 00:37:37,456
for everybody to step out and um not worry about that stuff for a period of time and even that is

412
00:37:37,456 --> 00:37:43,436
it's been you know in the current times it's even challenging to accomplish that because

413
00:37:43,436 --> 00:37:51,975
it's creeping into the to the concert space to the you know what people say on stage to what

414
00:37:51,975 --> 00:38:01,196
policies you have to put in place for xyz and it it's just a bizarre time so i i think the satire

415
00:38:01,196 --> 00:38:03,595
I for one appreciate it and

416
00:38:03,595 --> 00:38:06,396
I think it's critical

417
00:38:06,396 --> 00:38:09,896
when you said bizarre time in satire

418
00:38:09,896 --> 00:38:11,075
I was thinking about

419
00:38:11,075 --> 00:38:13,095
I think it was yesterday

420
00:38:13,095 --> 00:38:15,876
the 12 foot golden Donald Trump

421
00:38:15,876 --> 00:38:17,475
Bitcoin statue unveiled

422
00:38:17,475 --> 00:38:19,015
outside the US Capitol

423
00:38:19,015 --> 00:38:20,956
was that even real?

424
00:38:21,876 --> 00:38:23,795
we're in this world where

425
00:38:23,795 --> 00:38:25,876
satire becomes reality

426
00:38:25,876 --> 00:38:28,015
and that's kind of what it seemed to me

427
00:38:28,015 --> 00:38:29,815
I'm like is this fucking thing real?

428
00:38:29,815 --> 00:38:39,495
Well, that's the problem is you kind of made a comment that it's so easy to do satire and satirize this world.

429
00:38:39,876 --> 00:38:41,196
Why? I think it's the opposite.

430
00:38:41,356 --> 00:38:44,215
I think it's harder now because now there's nothing.

431
00:38:44,675 --> 00:38:45,595
There's no story.

432
00:38:45,715 --> 00:38:46,696
There's no meme.

433
00:38:46,815 --> 00:38:50,515
There's no headline that is too ridiculous for people to believe it.

434
00:38:50,515 --> 00:39:15,655
And with the ability with like AI tools to create realistic looking videos, music, mood, everything, it's getting harder and harder to tell the truth or harder and harder to relay valuable information without people being distracted by AI slot.

435
00:39:15,655 --> 00:39:23,876
and the you know to think about it from an artist or content creator's perspective

436
00:39:23,876 --> 00:39:31,315
ai slot's not going anywhere there's only going to be more ai slot and if people liked

437
00:39:31,315 --> 00:39:39,575
uh big bang theory and young sheldon they're gonna love ai slot um and it doesn't

438
00:39:39,575 --> 00:39:49,655
you could say that it may brew in or make music and and media worse i think it just raises the

439
00:39:49,655 --> 00:39:55,115
hurl rate of it if your music's not better than ai slop if your movies aren't better than ai slop

440
00:39:55,115 --> 00:39:59,815
if your information or news whatever it is that you're putting out there if it's not better than

441
00:39:59,815 --> 00:40:09,255
ai slop it's going to get buried in ai slop open mic is uh ai slop going to save independent

442
00:40:09,255 --> 00:40:09,795
venues.

443
00:40:13,735 --> 00:40:15,495
Oh, don't get me started.

444
00:40:17,175 --> 00:40:24,175
I will say like on a serious note, it, it, no, but it's, it's concerning what's going

445
00:40:24,175 --> 00:40:31,396
on in the, in the, in the world of an independent artist and an independent venue, like the

446
00:40:31,396 --> 00:40:36,775
whole independent ecosystem because of, you know, the broken money.

447
00:40:36,775 --> 00:40:37,155
Right.

448
00:40:37,155 --> 00:40:41,995
So it costs so much money to hit the road and go on tour.

449
00:40:42,396 --> 00:41:02,175
And so if you want to go present that true in-person authentic music experience, you got to have the numbers add up so that you can get a tour bus, hire a manager, hopefully sleep in a hotel and get all your travel expenses paid.

450
00:41:02,175 --> 00:41:31,055
And it's, you know, it's tough to sell 250 tickets in a foreign city. Like if you're not in your home turf and you're traveling around, it's, you know, that's a solid established band. If you could sell out a 250 cap room and doing the math on a show like that, it's just, that's just not that much money to pay for all the stuff that you need to get around in this world right now.

451
00:41:31,055 --> 00:41:42,015
And, you know, the people just turning to all digital, not necessarily AI slop, but just staying home and not being able to hit the road.

452
00:41:42,175 --> 00:41:47,255
And it is a problem, but not as a result of AI.

453
00:41:49,035 --> 00:41:53,095
You just reminded me, Mike, shout out to our buddy Sam.

454
00:41:53,275 --> 00:41:57,035
Sam Means, a.k.a. Lightning Store, a.k.a. Wave Lake.

455
00:41:57,575 --> 00:42:00,215
They sold out all four of their shows.

456
00:42:00,215 --> 00:42:08,335
the reunion tour for the format. So no AI slop there. There's going to be a lot of memories being

457
00:42:08,335 --> 00:42:15,695
rekindled. And I love to see those reunion tours because the age group is almost guaranteed.

458
00:42:15,876 --> 00:42:25,295
When they say it's a 20-year tour, 25-year album release reunion, it's funny because it's a capsule

459
00:42:25,295 --> 00:42:28,575
of time that gets opened up in a, in a, in a concert venue.

460
00:42:29,376 --> 00:42:33,155
Have you experienced that when you, when you see these,

461
00:42:33,275 --> 00:42:36,015
I think you just went to dead Prez actually. Yeah.

462
00:42:36,135 --> 00:42:38,175
That was 20 years from let's be free.

463
00:42:38,335 --> 00:42:43,815
Dead Prez 25th anniversary and that's kind of funny to,

464
00:42:43,815 --> 00:42:50,015
to go and see a show like that with a bunch of people who are listening to it

465
00:42:50,015 --> 00:42:53,655
25 years ago. Cause we're, we're not moving the same pace as we were then.

466
00:42:55,295 --> 00:43:04,175
But I mean, they, they just, you know, they hit so hard and, and like it, it's the same

467
00:43:04,175 --> 00:43:04,535
message.

468
00:43:04,535 --> 00:43:06,235
It's the same passion.

469
00:43:06,356 --> 00:43:07,535
It's the same authentic voice.

470
00:43:07,535 --> 00:43:08,835
And you see a lot of that now.

471
00:43:08,936 --> 00:43:10,795
You've seen that a lot in the independent.

472
00:43:11,715 --> 00:43:15,615
It's like they're, it's, it's almost like redoing a movie.

473
00:43:15,876 --> 00:43:17,835
You know, it's a guaranteed base.

474
00:43:18,476 --> 00:43:23,295
Just, just, it'll, it'll a hundred percent sell your, your kind of bottom line.

475
00:43:23,295 --> 00:43:25,515
And then everything else is gravy from there.

476
00:43:26,175 --> 00:43:27,916
But I just, I think it's cool.

477
00:43:28,175 --> 00:43:29,155
I like that.

478
00:43:29,795 --> 00:43:33,396
But what's different about movies, they're not trying to change the actual movie.

479
00:43:33,456 --> 00:43:35,215
It's literally just doing albums.

480
00:43:35,896 --> 00:43:38,055
So I'm an appreciator.

481
00:43:38,155 --> 00:43:39,335
I'm an appreciator of that.

482
00:43:39,456 --> 00:43:43,155
But there's another big thing that happened recently.

483
00:43:43,896 --> 00:43:48,976
DOJ and Live Nation preparing for the trial.

484
00:43:49,315 --> 00:43:50,675
What's your thoughts on that?

485
00:43:50,675 --> 00:43:59,195
I know you're not credentialed, but if you were to put yourself in the position of, let's say, Rod, what's your journalistic view on that?

486
00:44:00,956 --> 00:44:11,255
Yeah, it's, you know, we work, I'm on a couple of the committees at NEVA, and I just posted NEVA's official statement earlier today.

487
00:44:11,255 --> 00:44:21,095
you know it's we've been fighting for stuff like this for years um so i it's it's it's

488
00:44:21,095 --> 00:44:29,735
i feel conflicted right because of course it's a it's a clear monopoly when you when you own

489
00:44:29,735 --> 00:44:34,456
the ticketing platform when you own the resale market when you own venues when you could buy

490
00:44:34,456 --> 00:44:43,615
tours, when you manage artist relationships. I mean, there's no way. And it's so further down

491
00:44:43,615 --> 00:44:53,115
in how devious and problematic it is that you really get into nuanced conflicts of interest

492
00:44:53,115 --> 00:45:02,175
on top of just those basic business relationships. But it is odd for people in

493
00:45:02,175 --> 00:45:07,515
Noster and Bitcoin when you think about decentralized solutions and you think about

494
00:45:07,515 --> 00:45:11,936
protocols, not platforms, those kinds of themes. And you're just,

495
00:45:12,055 --> 00:45:18,835
you're running to the bigger centralized authority to take out the other centralized monopoly.

496
00:45:20,115 --> 00:45:29,615
And I, of course, think that, you know, I support all of it. I'm involved in it. I think it's

497
00:45:29,615 --> 00:45:37,115
important that people understand it and we do something about it but i i don't see necessarily

498
00:45:37,115 --> 00:45:44,936
like a lasting solution like if they just break up ticketmaster and live nation and set a few

499
00:45:44,936 --> 00:45:50,976
guardrails out there um there's still going to be a fortune 500 company and there's going to be

500
00:45:50,976 --> 00:46:01,735
indies you know trying to rub a couple nickels together um so it it is um i think it's just

501
00:46:01,735 --> 00:46:10,095
something that requires the as i say the the opt-out model of like i think slowly but surely

502
00:46:10,095 --> 00:46:20,715
people need to figure out ways to opt out of this massive goliath of a ecosystem and if you really

503
00:46:20,715 --> 00:46:25,255
want to support. It's the same thing that I always yap about on stage with value for value. Like if

504
00:46:25,255 --> 00:46:31,436
you want to, if you want to virtue signal and just beat the drum and post about V for V hashtags

505
00:46:31,436 --> 00:46:37,795
online, that's great. But you really got to like walk with, you know, talk with your feet, you know,

506
00:46:38,335 --> 00:46:43,916
open up, you know, open up your wallet, zap a few artists. If you, if we really want to incentivize

507
00:46:43,916 --> 00:46:52,396
people and get all of the true backbone to this to get some organic momentum because it is the long

508
00:46:52,447 --> 00:47:02,207
game, but that's really what I see is authentic solutions in a competitive way that you can

509
00:47:02,207 --> 00:47:10,087
actually address the Live Nation problem without just slapping more regulations and going to

510
00:47:10,087 --> 00:47:12,047
the government to try to fix it.

511
00:47:15,087 --> 00:47:20,967
Is there a correlation, Rod, between Live Nation and PodConf?

512
00:47:22,447 --> 00:47:41,327
Oh, absolutely. PodConf is nothing new. It's nothing unique. It's only unique to the Bitcoin and Bitcoin podcast. These industrial complex type industries, they're everywhere.

513
00:47:41,327 --> 00:47:53,667
And all it does is it rewards AI slot and it discourages non-compliant content.

514
00:47:53,987 --> 00:47:56,747
That's really all it does, but it exists across the spectrum.

515
00:48:00,707 --> 00:48:01,387
Yeah.

516
00:48:01,947 --> 00:48:10,707
So when we talk about creating content and streaming content, I mean, right now I have Rod, who is a content creator.

517
00:48:11,327 --> 00:48:18,187
myself, I suppose I am too. Open Mike is a little bit because he's been a big guest and he's been,

518
00:48:18,247 --> 00:48:23,367
he's been on his, his value for value tour, but the streaming side of things, you know,

519
00:48:23,387 --> 00:48:27,787
you're the big salesman, open Mike, you're the face of the streaming, the Toonster.

520
00:48:28,887 --> 00:48:34,367
What's the vibe on the, and maybe I'll start with you, Rod, what's the vibe on the consumer end? So

521
00:48:34,367 --> 00:48:40,987
I know you can look into your analytics, you can see maybe growth or ebbs and flows,

522
00:48:41,327 --> 00:48:52,267
Maybe there's cycles in it. Maybe one show does better than another and maybe you know why. What do you see or what do you feel about the vibe on the consumer end?

523
00:48:53,387 --> 00:48:54,747
What do they want?

524
00:48:54,747 --> 00:48:58,687
Everything has already been said.

525
00:48:59,387 --> 00:49:02,007
Everybody's already been offended about everything.

526
00:49:02,307 --> 00:49:05,867
Everybody's already grifted off of everything.

527
00:49:06,307 --> 00:49:07,347
It's everything's been said.

528
00:49:07,467 --> 00:49:24,147
Even like, even without getting into specifics, you know, people are canceling their favorite conspiracy theorists because they don't automatically assume that a popular conspiracy theory is, you know, at play.

529
00:49:24,147 --> 00:49:25,727
when something bad happens,

530
00:49:27,087 --> 00:49:29,267
people are just ready for something new.

531
00:49:29,627 --> 00:49:32,347
Consumers want something fresh, new,

532
00:49:32,707 --> 00:49:36,387
something that hasn't been said before,

533
00:49:36,747 --> 00:49:38,787
which is very difficult to come up with,

534
00:49:39,047 --> 00:49:41,647
or something that is said in a way

535
00:49:41,647 --> 00:49:44,467
and a new perspective that is actually useful.

536
00:49:45,367 --> 00:49:47,247
I think that's, for right now,

537
00:49:48,307 --> 00:49:49,447
what I would boil it down to.

538
00:49:49,547 --> 00:49:51,467
People just want something.

539
00:49:51,467 --> 00:49:56,427
they need entropy they need entropy in their content

540
00:49:56,427 --> 00:50:05,887
yeah and mike i think you touched on this um you know we need the users the whole uh chicken or the

541
00:50:05,887 --> 00:50:13,227
egg uh so you know is there some celebrations on the consumer end or the maybe i mean you're

542
00:50:13,227 --> 00:50:19,207
talking to artists you're talking to maybe people that are using toonster um what's kind of the

543
00:50:19,207 --> 00:50:26,827
highs and lows if you want to be real about it. Yeah. I mean, I think on the consumer side to,

544
00:50:26,827 --> 00:50:37,167
to get a more robust circular zapping economy going no surprise here that we're all playing

545
00:50:37,167 --> 00:50:45,967
the long game on, on the development side and we don't have big VC funds like investing in our,

546
00:50:45,967 --> 00:50:54,567
you know in our tools so we got to make these things really easy so that you know we just did

547
00:50:54,567 --> 00:51:05,127
the show at bitcoin park um a couple months ago and you know to a group of sophisticated users who

548
00:51:05,127 --> 00:51:11,187
are there at bitcoin park it's still challenging to to just you you want to be able to just pick up

549
00:51:11,187 --> 00:51:17,027
and, you know, single tap something and then just go back to watching the show.

550
00:51:18,787 --> 00:51:27,567
And so that's a barrier that, you know, I'm exploring how to make Toonster easier to use

551
00:51:27,567 --> 00:51:33,567
and going further, you know, actually fork further from Zapstream rather than just...

552
00:51:34,547 --> 00:51:38,887
It's currently more or less a cosmetic fork.

553
00:51:38,887 --> 00:51:45,767
there are a whole lot of user differences between the Zapstream code and what Toonster does other

554
00:51:45,767 --> 00:51:53,487
than just provide a familiar vibe so that artists can log in and see it and be like,

555
00:51:53,547 --> 00:51:57,807
oh yeah, I kind of know what's going on here. This makes sense. There's a whole bunch of other

556
00:51:57,807 --> 00:52:03,607
content creators here and it seems like I understand why they're doing what they're doing.

557
00:52:03,607 --> 00:52:12,787
But I really would like to get it further into the UX of a music experience.

558
00:52:14,887 --> 00:52:27,107
I had a really big victory in an artist onboarding, and we did a show, and the turnout was okay.

559
00:52:27,107 --> 00:52:34,427
We had to bump the day at the last second, but it was Doomtree in Minneapolis here, a really great hip-hop group.

560
00:52:35,607 --> 00:52:36,827
Sell thousands of tickets.

561
00:52:37,047 --> 00:52:40,327
Wasn't that kind of a late arrival, though, on the news?

562
00:52:40,507 --> 00:52:45,467
Yeah, it was a surprise.

563
00:52:45,847 --> 00:52:49,107
I wasn't actively pitching Laserbeak.

564
00:52:49,867 --> 00:52:52,807
He's the business manager, and he also is on stage.

565
00:52:52,807 --> 00:52:57,527
doing the beats for the hip-hop group on stage.

566
00:52:58,947 --> 00:53:04,147
And we weren't just totally sure we'd pull it off

567
00:53:04,147 --> 00:53:05,707
and wanted to make sure we did it right.

568
00:53:05,707 --> 00:53:10,507
So we didn't go full bore on the promotion and the marketing.

569
00:53:11,747 --> 00:53:16,387
But, I mean, these guys are big voices in the Minneapolis music community.

570
00:53:16,607 --> 00:53:21,887
They would sell probably 10,000 tickets if we announced the show coming up

571
00:53:21,887 --> 00:53:24,967
because they're a super group.

572
00:53:25,087 --> 00:53:26,447
They all have individual careers

573
00:53:26,447 --> 00:53:29,327
and they only get together so often as a group.

574
00:53:30,887 --> 00:53:34,287
I love when you can actually tap it

575
00:53:34,287 --> 00:53:35,327
from the other side though.

576
00:53:35,567 --> 00:53:37,047
For instance, like Scardust,

577
00:53:37,667 --> 00:53:39,487
who already understood Bitcoin.

578
00:53:39,607 --> 00:53:41,647
They were super into the ethos of it.

579
00:53:42,167 --> 00:53:43,627
Then they got into Nostra.

580
00:53:43,747 --> 00:53:47,027
Then they decided to join Nostra with their content.

581
00:53:47,667 --> 00:53:50,067
We have two different ways of selling it.

582
00:53:50,067 --> 00:53:55,387
you're trying to explain to them Bitcoin and maybe they gasp that.

583
00:53:55,467 --> 00:53:58,407
Then you're trying to explain to them Noster and you,

584
00:53:58,487 --> 00:54:02,687
you end up looking like that meme of the guy pointing at the board with all

585
00:54:02,687 --> 00:54:04,187
the scribbles on it. You know what I mean?

586
00:54:04,747 --> 00:54:09,527
So it's kind of like, it's how much easier is it if they're already on Noster?

587
00:54:10,027 --> 00:54:13,847
It is. I love, I love scar dust and they're, they're just,

588
00:54:14,027 --> 00:54:17,287
they're doing great things and we're, we're actually talking to them.

589
00:54:17,287 --> 00:54:20,287
thanks to the Bugles intro

590
00:54:20,287 --> 00:54:22,807
getting them

591
00:54:22,807 --> 00:54:25,487
hopefully some gigs here

592
00:54:25,487 --> 00:54:26,367
stateside

593
00:54:26,367 --> 00:54:28,627
they're playing at a festival in Atlanta

594
00:54:28,627 --> 00:54:29,467
next fall

595
00:54:29,467 --> 00:54:31,587
so they'll already be over here

596
00:54:31,587 --> 00:54:34,387
and it would be awesome to do a little routing

597
00:54:34,387 --> 00:54:35,947
of independent venues

598
00:54:35,947 --> 00:54:36,567
so they could

599
00:54:36,567 --> 00:54:40,067
the travel visas are definitely an issue

600
00:54:40,067 --> 00:54:41,167
right now

601
00:54:41,167 --> 00:54:43,887
they have a visa

602
00:54:43,887 --> 00:54:45,847
that might be your in on

603
00:54:45,847 --> 00:54:46,507
Avi too

604
00:54:46,507 --> 00:54:51,547
obviously super fan. And so, yeah, it's interesting to have that.

605
00:54:51,687 --> 00:54:56,387
There you go. Yeah. I think he probably forked up for that 20, the,

606
00:54:56,387 --> 00:55:00,987
the limited edition 21, uh, scardust, uh, uh,

607
00:55:01,767 --> 00:55:07,907
Noster promo that was going on. That's right. So it's only baby. I liked it.

608
00:55:08,207 --> 00:55:12,187
And an interesting hybrid was a what fest,

609
00:55:12,187 --> 00:55:15,747
which was another one that came up and we did not,

610
00:55:16,027 --> 00:55:21,087
and we intentionally didn't go nuts like advanced marketing it because none of

611
00:55:21,087 --> 00:55:23,507
us had been to the site. You know,

612
00:55:23,547 --> 00:55:26,247
we didn't have a production team in Wyoming there.

613
00:55:27,407 --> 00:55:31,347
But we had Manny Tatum, the Daniel,

614
00:55:31,707 --> 00:55:34,187
myself all went out there and the,

615
00:55:35,007 --> 00:55:39,687
the nice hybrid there was the, the producer,

616
00:55:39,687 --> 00:55:46,207
the organizer of the event was really into Bitcoin and Noster as a concept. And he just

617
00:55:46,207 --> 00:55:54,227
was like, he just let us kind of run, you know, run free with our, with our crazy ideas. And he

618
00:55:54,227 --> 00:55:58,867
set us up with a tent right next to the production booth that was running the whole festival. And

619
00:55:58,867 --> 00:56:07,307
this is a festival that had been going on for 20 years. So we got to do our thing and they already

620
00:56:07,307 --> 00:56:14,047
had the traditional artists and a couple of them were bitcoiners um but for the most part they were

621
00:56:14,047 --> 00:56:18,467
regular artists and we streamed you know we streamed the whole thing and kind of treated it as a

622
00:56:18,467 --> 00:56:25,027
as a beta run because next year of course is the 21st and so we want to be back out there and really

623
00:56:25,027 --> 00:56:32,627
go full tilt but having the big difference there it's going to be djing djing next year i hope so

624
00:56:32,627 --> 00:56:34,427
Him and Richard.

625
00:56:34,607 --> 00:56:35,747
It's an awesome spot.

626
00:56:35,967 --> 00:56:36,327
Hell yeah.

627
00:56:37,487 --> 00:56:39,207
Plan it for the next Bitcoin summer.

628
00:56:39,207 --> 00:56:55,047
The really cool thing about that event was that since it was the organizer who had contracted all of these artists and set up the whole event, he had the authority to just get up and do whatever he wanted.

629
00:56:55,047 --> 00:57:03,867
So he got up on stage and would announce every couple sets what was going on online and talk about Toonster and talk about Noster and Bitcoin.

630
00:57:04,747 --> 00:57:08,427
And it was actually being broadcast live on Wyoming Public Radio.

631
00:57:09,687 --> 00:57:17,867
So I was really very interested in that sort of an approach where having those endorsements.

632
00:57:17,867 --> 00:57:18,687
There's something special about that.

633
00:57:18,687 --> 00:57:25,867
Having those endorsements on stage or from the people presenting the content, that's what matters.

634
00:57:26,067 --> 00:57:31,707
If Doomtree would have gotten on stage as somebody like Scardust who already understood it and they said,

635
00:57:31,707 --> 00:57:46,907
if you really want to support me, do this, that's where this thing could really go to the next level as far as the artists are bringing on their fans

636
00:57:46,907 --> 00:57:50,907
rather than us bringing a whole bunch of new fans to the artists.

637
00:57:55,787 --> 00:58:17,057
And tapping into that internet where people are sending zaps or boostergrams via the world while you at an event just live when you announce that hey everyone here thank you but we also have all these people from all over the world tuning in right now

638
00:58:17,057 --> 00:58:25,597
It not only gives a sense of, I don't know, it's a powerful thing because people that are there know that they're in it.

639
00:58:25,697 --> 00:58:33,657
It's like reaffirming that they're in a special place that people would even be tuning in to even be somewhat close to where they are right now.

640
00:58:34,237 --> 00:58:36,297
I just think that's really cool.

641
00:58:37,757 --> 00:58:37,977
Yeah.

642
00:58:38,117 --> 00:58:42,017
Rod, you went to, did you go to Lake Satoshi?

643
00:58:43,277 --> 00:58:44,037
I did.

644
00:58:44,137 --> 00:58:44,937
Yeah, it was a great time.

645
00:58:45,477 --> 00:58:45,917
Yeah.

646
00:58:46,157 --> 00:58:46,817
Open mic.

647
00:58:46,817 --> 00:58:51,377
are you are you gonna make it out there one year you know i've been in contact with those guys i

648
00:58:51,377 --> 00:58:58,997
wanted to it's just what's the drive how long you got to go all the way down and back up and

649
00:58:58,997 --> 00:59:05,777
yeah it's i think it's like 16 hours or something crazy and

650
00:59:05,777 --> 00:59:14,417
you know open mic is i'm not flying in a long drive list and driving with no open mic is also

651
00:59:14,417 --> 00:59:16,617
pretty indoorsy so

652
00:59:16,617 --> 00:59:19,037
to drive 16 hours

653
00:59:19,037 --> 00:59:21,117
camping. Don't worry. I'll bring

654
00:59:21,117 --> 00:59:23,397
you a raccoon hat and you can

655
00:59:23,397 --> 00:59:24,537
just hold my hand.

656
00:59:26,017 --> 00:59:27,157
It looks awesome though.

657
00:59:27,257 --> 00:59:28,537
I loved all the

658
00:59:28,537 --> 00:59:31,177
information I saw

659
00:59:31,177 --> 00:59:31,857
coming out of there.

660
00:59:33,337 --> 00:59:34,777
Yeah, so tell me about it Rod.

661
00:59:34,777 --> 00:59:36,537
Give me the boots on the ground.

662
00:59:37,797 --> 00:59:38,737
If you fly

663
00:59:38,737 --> 00:59:41,057
into Detroit it should be about

664
00:59:41,057 --> 00:59:42,817
maybe an hour

665
00:59:42,817 --> 00:59:49,297
drive from detroit so it's not too bad but you can't fly right in um it's great it's but that's

666
00:59:49,297 --> 00:59:57,777
a feature not a bug right i mean yes exactly yeah exactly it is next to the airport nobody nobody

667
00:59:57,777 --> 01:00:03,857
shows up to wake satoshi that is you know too casual it's too hard to get to it's too much of

668
01:00:03,857 --> 01:00:10,177
a pain there's not enough influencers there's not enough uh pizzazz it's just you know it's for

669
01:00:10,177 --> 01:00:13,677
people who like to go and go camping with,

670
01:00:13,677 --> 01:00:17,317
with other Bitcoin podcasters with, you know,

671
01:00:17,377 --> 01:00:21,677
with the ungovernable misfits, you know, with Bubba,

672
01:00:22,157 --> 01:00:27,477
with Augie, with Otis Bitmeyer,

673
01:00:28,077 --> 01:00:31,377
with that, with those guys, with Bitcoin miners, with, you know,

674
01:00:31,437 --> 01:00:34,377
people who are really, they're really bought in

675
01:00:34,377 --> 01:00:37,117
and they know how to get out in the middle of nowhere

676
01:00:37,117 --> 01:00:39,237
to this private lake named after Stoshi.

677
01:00:39,237 --> 01:00:45,097
And by the time you get to those people, it's a pretty great experience.

678
01:00:45,237 --> 01:00:46,437
It's a pretty unique experience.

679
01:00:47,437 --> 01:00:47,537
Yeah.

680
01:00:48,157 --> 01:00:53,857
I'm going to probably, the way I can see it making sense for me is doing one of those fly-ins.

681
01:00:54,157 --> 01:01:00,217
I already have an RV rented and do the old tourist RV deal over there.

682
01:01:00,317 --> 01:01:04,977
Because you're not going to Walmart to grab a tent and just abandon it out there, you know.

683
01:01:05,557 --> 01:01:05,997
Right.

684
01:01:05,997 --> 01:01:13,137
it's it's it's like a it's like nostril in a way uh or even maybe some of the smaller corners of

685
01:01:13,137 --> 01:01:18,917
nostrils like nobody's ends up there on accident nobody ends up there because they're they're

686
01:01:18,917 --> 01:01:25,317
dallying um and it's you know if a fed does show up there they stick out like a sore phone

687
01:01:25,317 --> 01:01:27,437
yeah how many did you see

688
01:01:27,437 --> 01:01:34,297
i always saw a dozen that's that's good man and there's

689
01:01:34,297 --> 01:01:40,517
There's like 200 people there, I think, around the ratio.

690
01:01:41,597 --> 01:01:43,197
Yeah, that's what ratio.

691
01:01:43,937 --> 01:01:46,657
Yeah, it's a better ratio than that.

692
01:01:46,657 --> 01:01:48,417
That Governor Whitmer.

693
01:01:49,697 --> 01:01:50,657
Yeah, right.

694
01:01:51,217 --> 01:01:52,017
Our group chats.

695
01:01:52,577 --> 01:01:54,057
Honey pot that was so hot.

696
01:01:54,617 --> 01:01:59,357
And it's a better it's definitely a better ratio than, you know, the coin values.

697
01:02:00,837 --> 01:02:01,077
Yeah.

698
01:02:01,557 --> 01:02:02,077
Yeah.

699
01:02:02,077 --> 01:02:02,957
How about that, man?

700
01:02:02,957 --> 01:02:09,297
Nothing like having a podconf improved event in one of the places where there's cameras everywhere.

701
01:02:09,657 --> 01:02:13,657
You know, it's it's most compliant conference ever.

702
01:02:14,957 --> 01:02:16,097
Security line.

703
01:02:16,737 --> 01:02:18,977
All to see your TSA politicians.

704
01:02:20,397 --> 01:02:24,477
Take off your shoes and go through the scanner machine to see your favorite.

705
01:02:24,597 --> 01:02:24,797
Yeah.

706
01:02:24,917 --> 01:02:26,937
Bitcoin podcaster interview a politician.

707
01:02:27,757 --> 01:02:28,017
Yeah.

708
01:02:28,097 --> 01:02:29,917
Who's your favorite politician right now, Mike?

709
01:02:32,957 --> 01:02:33,637
Nice.

710
01:02:36,377 --> 01:02:37,597
Nice transition.

711
01:02:38,337 --> 01:02:41,137
So, yeah, how do we get Nostra to grow?

712
01:02:41,457 --> 01:02:49,157
And, you know, we've been talking about all these mini apps, micro apps, you know, and a lot of it was just replication of current apps.

713
01:02:49,757 --> 01:02:51,637
The ecosystem is exploding.

714
01:02:52,097 --> 01:03:00,557
But, you know, it seems like what's working now is something like what Primal is doing where your app becomes multiple things.

715
01:03:00,557 --> 01:03:03,417
It's now your wallet to zap.

716
01:03:03,617 --> 01:03:05,937
It's your video streamer.

717
01:03:06,697 --> 01:03:11,077
You know, you can toggle over to the photo side.

718
01:03:11,197 --> 01:03:14,617
You can be a creator and actually have Primal Studio.

719
01:03:15,857 --> 01:03:18,997
You know, where is the decentralization happening?

720
01:03:19,697 --> 01:03:25,897
I don't know if I've really seen that take off on the, you know, the mini app side.

721
01:03:26,817 --> 01:03:29,097
How are you using right now, Mike?

722
01:03:29,097 --> 01:03:30,837
How are you using Nostra, I guess?

723
01:03:30,977 --> 01:03:32,197
And what would you like to see?

724
01:03:33,977 --> 01:03:46,417
Yeah, I want to see more things that are just very easy and simple to just present to a total newcomer.

725
01:03:47,277 --> 01:03:48,537
So things that work?

726
01:03:49,397 --> 01:03:50,697
Yeah, that would be a good start.

727
01:03:50,697 --> 01:04:01,297
but no I mean just things that are um like obscuring the keys for example you know like

728
01:04:01,297 --> 01:04:08,357
I like that you don't have to talk about key pairs right out of the gate or or wallets right

729
01:04:08,357 --> 01:04:16,237
out of the gate in order to use it um that's something that I've watched conversations die

730
01:04:16,237 --> 01:04:27,377
quickly. You were handing out those 2100 sats, weren't you at the what fest? Yeah. And how did

731
01:04:27,377 --> 01:04:33,997
they receive that? I'm just curious from a person actually handing them out. We're like, wait,

732
01:04:34,057 --> 01:04:40,357
this is Bitcoin. And then you get into the whole, this is sats. It's a denomination of Bitcoin. And

733
01:04:40,357 --> 01:04:44,797
And then you look like the guy pointing to the poster with the scribbles on it.

734
01:04:45,437 --> 01:04:45,837
Yeah.

735
01:04:46,077 --> 01:04:48,457
But no, so you just tell them, download the app.

736
01:04:48,677 --> 01:04:50,157
Tell me that onboarding process.

737
01:04:50,257 --> 01:04:51,277
I'm just generally curious.

738
01:04:51,697 --> 01:05:01,517
Yeah, like 10, I'd say 25% of the people would come over and you'd have a long enough engaging conversation

739
01:05:01,517 --> 01:05:08,317
where they'd ask some questions and you'd get to that point of talking about what's actually going on here.

740
01:05:08,317 --> 01:05:14,117
25% just want to take the card and like go try to figure it out at home.

741
01:05:14,357 --> 01:05:14,877
You know what I mean?

742
01:05:14,957 --> 01:05:16,717
Like they're just, okay, interesting.

743
01:05:16,877 --> 01:05:18,937
I'll just go, I'll download it later.

744
01:05:20,717 --> 01:05:28,837
But my go-to lately has been getting somebody on Primal right away

745
01:05:28,837 --> 01:05:34,717
so that you can have the wallet and the social kind of in one app download.

746
01:05:34,717 --> 01:05:37,497
And then you got to make sure you get the second one.

747
01:05:37,497 --> 01:05:45,497
And for me, what makes it compelling is you get somebody to download Fountain or Wavelake or maybe both if you've got enough time.

748
01:05:45,877 --> 01:05:53,737
And then you immediately show them how to take their identity and port it from one to the other.

749
01:05:53,897 --> 01:05:58,237
Even like when you install the second app and they say sign up and create an account.

750
01:05:58,677 --> 01:05:59,297
You're like, no, no, no.

751
01:05:59,477 --> 01:06:00,657
Log in with existing.

752
01:06:01,357 --> 01:06:03,637
That's a good conversation piece right there.

753
01:06:03,637 --> 01:06:08,837
because they just assume they're getting the next app.

754
01:06:11,597 --> 01:06:18,857
And so then you go in and my go-to is then usually to pull up a song

755
01:06:18,857 --> 01:06:24,137
or a podcast on Fountain or Wave Lake and zap it

756
01:06:24,137 --> 01:06:27,157
and make sure the broadcast to Noster button is clicked on

757
01:06:27,157 --> 01:06:31,017
so that then you go back to Primal and show them how it cross-posted.

758
01:06:31,017 --> 01:06:45,937
And then that is a couple of pretty good light bulb moments that give you an opportunity to have a longer conversation if they care at those points in time.

759
01:06:47,837 --> 01:06:48,397
Yeah.

760
01:06:48,957 --> 01:06:50,417
Yeah, and that's a big thing.

761
01:06:50,617 --> 01:06:52,057
It's like, do people care?

762
01:06:52,257 --> 01:06:53,297
When do people care?

763
01:06:53,517 --> 01:06:54,877
What's going to push them to care?

764
01:06:54,877 --> 01:07:01,417
you know and that's kind of society's role half the time is is actually being in a position where

765
01:07:01,417 --> 01:07:06,557
they feel threatened i suppose like maybe their free speech isn't isn't is actually getting

766
01:07:06,557 --> 01:07:12,197
dwindled i can see like where the uk and i mean they've got the good stop at the door because you

767
01:07:12,197 --> 01:07:18,777
made a a social post uh so i mean that that's definitely part of it they they want to and

768
01:07:18,777 --> 01:07:23,797
sometimes when life is good no one wants change they're not actually actively trying to change

769
01:07:23,797 --> 01:07:28,857
anything because, hey, I woke up happy, breakfast was good, and now I'm at a concert.

770
01:07:29,557 --> 01:07:29,757
Yeah.

771
01:07:29,897 --> 01:07:35,637
So it's one of those things where unless they recognize a problem, they don't see the solution

772
01:07:35,637 --> 01:07:40,937
that you're offering, even if it's 2,100 sats on a card.

773
01:07:42,017 --> 01:07:44,217
Rod, what's your sovereign stack?

774
01:07:44,217 --> 01:07:45,577
How do you Noster?

775
01:07:45,577 --> 01:07:57,577
well the sovereign stack is uh fountain nostr uh chat gbt and that's like the podcaster stack

776
01:07:57,577 --> 01:08:04,577
right there and that's how you that's how you do content um but i think you guys are talking you

777
01:08:04,577 --> 01:08:13,397
have an important question or conversation here which is the way to grow in my opinion uh people

778
01:08:13,397 --> 01:08:21,197
using Noster is A, it's a very boomer app, as I like to call it, Noster app. It's very boomer.

779
01:08:21,417 --> 01:08:27,137
And you need younger people because the boomers, they're going to retirement homes. They're not

780
01:08:27,137 --> 01:08:33,117
going to have fast enough internet to access the slow, primal app. They've got too much time.

781
01:08:34,037 --> 01:08:39,917
They've got to raise their kids. Their grandkids and their kids are living at their house with them

782
01:08:39,917 --> 01:08:44,157
because they can't afford to have their own uh they just don't have as much time to use the app

783
01:08:44,157 --> 01:08:48,317
and young people are finding new and creative ways to communicate with each other and they're

784
01:08:48,317 --> 01:08:53,717
the ones making the the real viral memes that are really growing some of these platforms but also

785
01:08:53,717 --> 01:08:59,977
and i think this is important i tell you i don't think that it's gonna work

786
01:08:59,977 --> 01:09:14,626
if you have to make everybody care about the decentralization and the freedom and the censorship Like not Everybody got a lot of things to worry about right now They don have there terrible things going on around the world

787
01:09:14,726 --> 01:09:16,726
And people are like, I don't have time to care about this right now.

788
01:09:17,066 --> 01:09:18,126
Or something's happening in politics.

789
01:09:18,246 --> 01:09:20,166
I do not have time to care about this right now.

790
01:09:20,606 --> 01:09:25,666
Well, it's like, well, we need to decentralize this abstract idea of decentralization communication.

791
01:09:26,026 --> 01:09:29,946
It's like, I don't have time to care about that right now.

792
01:09:29,946 --> 01:09:34,366
But there are people, like you said, that like, they don't really see the problems in the world.

793
01:09:34,486 --> 01:09:40,526
They're just kind of NPCs and they just wake up and they're happy and they go to a concert or they they're just doing their lives.

794
01:09:40,526 --> 01:09:50,146
But those people are still finding new tools, finding new apps, finding new platforms, finding and adopting new technologies all the time.

795
01:09:50,146 --> 01:09:58,066
people are adopting you know ai and nobody's has to explain to them why it's the most you know all

796
01:09:58,066 --> 01:10:02,806
these principles that it solves and why it's good for humanity they just use it even if they think

797
01:10:02,806 --> 01:10:08,366
it's bad for humanity actually um and uses too much energy and i think that noser's just gotta

798
01:10:08,366 --> 01:10:14,126
like and i think if you bring more people and especially young people uh who are just creative

799
01:10:14,126 --> 01:10:22,126
and ambitious just create new apps and new features and new things that make people want to

800
01:10:22,126 --> 01:10:27,646
use them and if the incentives are aligned correctly you don't have to lecture them at

801
01:10:27,646 --> 01:10:31,706
every corner about like this is good for decentralization or this is good for censorship

802
01:10:31,706 --> 01:10:35,486
reason what if the government comes and tries to say they don't have to care about that stuff

803
01:10:35,486 --> 01:10:43,446
um and the problem is you just want to solve later problems uh people the censorship resistance and

804
01:10:43,446 --> 01:10:50,246
decentralization or of communication are problems but not everybody thinks that that's their biggest

805
01:10:50,246 --> 01:10:55,486
problem right now um but they have a lot of a million other problems that might still align

806
01:10:55,486 --> 01:11:02,126
with this decentralization censorship resistance um you know ethos that you can bring them in that

807
01:11:02,126 --> 01:11:07,046
way and this is kind of like why like paper bitcoin summer is it's so many people have

808
01:11:07,046 --> 01:11:13,206
adopted it ironically is it's the same problem with bitcoin um constantly being

809
01:11:13,206 --> 01:11:16,986
lectured about, well, if you do it this way, or if you use this app, or if you use this wall,

810
01:11:17,086 --> 01:11:21,426
this isn't good for Bitcoin decentralization. This isn't the right way to do this. And it's

811
01:11:22,046 --> 01:11:29,866
kind of a blowback or a reaction to like, stop lecturing the, I'm just going to do whatever I

812
01:11:29,866 --> 01:11:33,426
want. And I don't think there's that many people. I mean, obviously there's not that many people

813
01:11:33,426 --> 01:11:37,406
participating in paper Bitcoin somewhere, or the prices wouldn't be where they are,

814
01:11:37,686 --> 01:11:40,466
but there's a lot of people who say they are, and it's just kind of to troll

815
01:11:40,466 --> 01:11:43,046
everybody who lectures them all the time

816
01:11:43,046 --> 01:11:47,186
I'm curious because you

817
01:11:47,186 --> 01:11:49,086
you mentioned I mean it's a good point

818
01:11:49,086 --> 01:11:50,866
I think Noster there's

819
01:11:50,866 --> 01:11:52,786
a good amount of boomers on there

820
01:11:52,786 --> 01:11:55,146
I think we're all a strong

821
01:11:55,146 --> 01:11:55,666
majority

822
01:11:55,666 --> 01:11:58,826
Ron Paul libertarians

823
01:11:58,826 --> 01:12:00,926
yeah right right

824
01:12:00,926 --> 01:12:03,186
do you see analytics

825
01:12:03,186 --> 01:12:05,206
on the X side I mean because you guys

826
01:12:05,206 --> 01:12:06,426
have a are you blue chap

827
01:12:06,426 --> 01:12:08,586
yeah I've got

828
01:12:08,586 --> 01:12:19,486
Do you see ages, age groups? I think like, you know, Facebook and stuff, you can kind of get that kind of data. But does X have that kind of data?

829
01:12:20,866 --> 01:12:28,986
Where you can see like people ages from between 18 and 25 or this percentage of your engagement?

830
01:12:28,986 --> 01:12:36,786
i'm checking right now i don't recall that being one of the things is just really like

831
01:12:36,786 --> 01:12:43,706
raw numbers over time but i haven't really dug deep into it to try to find if i can so i'm looking

832
01:12:43,706 --> 01:12:49,466
at that now but i don't i don't know it's so hard to use this nostre is definitely going to be

833
01:12:49,466 --> 01:12:56,706
between 30 and 50 you know right exactly exactly and i i think that that's still

834
01:12:56,706 --> 01:13:01,646
probably going to be there's going to be a lot of people in threes but there's going to be a lot

835
01:13:01,646 --> 01:13:06,286
more people younger on x and some of these other places especially tiktok right like that's where

836
01:13:06,286 --> 01:13:15,166
the broccoli haircuts hang out and have you penetrated that market yet there's that's a

837
01:13:15,166 --> 01:13:19,206
difficult we're gonna have to create a tiktok if we want to penetrate that market but

838
01:13:19,206 --> 01:13:28,106
you start with facebook and work your way up yeah oh gosh uh i think i i i don't know if you

839
01:13:28,106 --> 01:13:35,566
could put tiktok on the officer i guess you could but it's there's something to be said about you

840
01:13:35,566 --> 01:13:41,986
know you don't necessarily have to go to tiktok and be on tiktok but you might have to go on tiktok

841
01:13:41,986 --> 01:13:48,466
long enough to realize what's popular and what's trendy and what's viral with a demographic

842
01:13:48,466 --> 01:13:56,686
and use that as a creative resource to bring to your protocol and try to attract them.

843
01:13:58,166 --> 01:14:03,826
Were you following the, what the hell is it called?

844
01:14:04,106 --> 01:14:07,426
The vlog, the vlogster, the V-logs?

845
01:14:08,086 --> 01:14:08,546
Yeah, yeah.

846
01:14:08,686 --> 01:14:09,706
I made a remark.

847
01:14:09,926 --> 01:14:13,306
It was somebody, or a video, there's a clip out there.

848
01:14:13,306 --> 01:14:20,466
um i haven't heard anybody say vlog in like 20 years and i was and i was making fun of the fact

849
01:14:20,466 --> 01:14:25,726
that it was like a bunch of 50 year olds making vlogs again on nostril uh and i thought that was

850
01:14:25,726 --> 01:14:33,406
i was i was just remarking on that yeah not i mean and i i love the fact that uh it was

851
01:14:33,406 --> 01:14:40,746
like uncompressed video so it was like 250 megabytes yeah just full-on 4k yeah

852
01:14:40,746 --> 01:14:48,886
of some dude with a vlog. Yeah. Yeah, totally. In a way it's kind of like spam on a node. You

853
01:14:48,886 --> 01:14:55,346
know, I'm sitting here with my Raspberry Pi trying to get through the block 70% to 75 and that's the

854
01:14:55,346 --> 01:15:02,446
full on node spam. In a way I'm trying to use Noster and my, my, my, my, my, my phone is glitching

855
01:15:02,446 --> 01:15:05,186
because the video is so damn large.

856
01:15:06,006 --> 01:15:07,186
It's interesting.

857
01:15:10,186 --> 01:15:13,546
Yeah, Mike, do you have any plans for vlogging,

858
01:15:13,726 --> 01:15:14,726
or have you already done that?

859
01:15:15,506 --> 01:15:16,986
I have not vlogged.

860
01:15:17,486 --> 01:15:21,066
I was interested in the TikTok discussion, though,

861
01:15:21,066 --> 01:15:25,966
because that brought me back to talking about growing Noster.

862
01:15:26,146 --> 01:15:28,126
What's the next thing?

863
01:15:29,026 --> 01:15:31,626
I like to think about the carrot or the stick.

864
01:15:31,626 --> 01:15:41,086
Is it because we've got the best content, the best experience, the best opportunity for an additional revenue stream for creators?

865
01:15:45,006 --> 01:15:51,266
Interestingly, when you have bad things happen in Web 2, then you get these influx.

866
01:15:51,266 --> 01:15:56,046
and I've been noticing the TikTok headlines are ramping back up

867
01:15:56,046 --> 01:16:03,206
with our government trying to broker a sale to make it a U.S. company, right?

868
01:16:03,566 --> 01:16:10,326
And that brought me back to that, wasn't it like inauguration day?

869
01:16:10,326 --> 01:16:15,886
It was like right around then when TikTok went down for two days.

870
01:16:16,966 --> 01:16:17,526
Oh, yeah.

871
01:16:17,606 --> 01:16:19,966
It was a whole people's livelihood.

872
01:16:20,546 --> 01:16:20,786
Yeah.

873
01:16:21,266 --> 01:16:28,986
They made you think about your social graph that you built, that your business is entirely built on this walled garden.

874
01:16:29,446 --> 01:16:30,266
And it just was like.

875
01:16:30,266 --> 01:16:33,846
And that's one of those life is good until it isn't instances.

876
01:16:34,406 --> 01:16:46,246
And that's where like I just thought that was such an under under reported and under discussed, not in Noster, of course, but in like the real world, like outside of the normie land.

877
01:16:46,246 --> 01:16:50,446
how that just,

878
01:16:50,446 --> 01:16:54,946
just went right back to kind of like the financial crisis was like, Oh yeah,

879
01:16:54,946 --> 01:16:58,226
this is, you know, AIG is failing, but I'm sure we'll figure it out. Right.

880
01:16:58,466 --> 01:17:01,526
You know, like, you know, somebody is going to bail them out.

881
01:17:01,566 --> 01:17:04,266
It's all good. SVB that worked out just fine.

882
01:17:05,986 --> 01:17:07,746
And, and that's kind of this,

883
01:17:07,906 --> 01:17:12,406
that was like the Noster version for me because I was in meetings where

884
01:17:12,406 --> 01:17:17,626
the music world was talking about like,

885
01:17:17,686 --> 01:17:22,726
what are the alternatives to, to TikTok? You know, we've got, you know,

886
01:17:22,726 --> 01:17:26,646
and they literally were going to the Chinese app,

887
01:17:26,646 --> 01:17:32,646
like the native app that was actually from China as kind of like a protest.

888
01:17:34,026 --> 01:17:42,386
But I'm sitting there just watching all this happen and you just,

889
01:17:42,406 --> 01:17:53,286
kind of go to the next level of partial solution and that you know nostor was so

890
01:17:53,286 --> 01:18:00,446
i mean we still are so early but that was such a perfect moment such a perfect narrative

891
01:18:00,446 --> 01:18:06,246
and then it was it was really approached by all of the all of the people who built their entire

892
01:18:06,246 --> 01:18:14,106
livelihoods on their tiktok following it was approached the exact same way as as people who

893
01:18:14,106 --> 01:18:21,106
had you know bank accounts with first republic or svb and then you know just kind of you know it's

894
01:18:21,106 --> 01:18:27,466
it's not bitcoin's not the answer it's just we'll fix it you know the the bailout will happen

895
01:18:27,466 --> 01:18:34,926
and i i was actually thinking about tiktok today um it was because in light of that kimmel

896
01:18:34,926 --> 01:18:39,506
shit that went down where he's apparently getting deplatformed or canceled whatever

897
01:18:39,506 --> 01:18:45,106
uh i was looking at their uh because there's some arguments that uh that the coveted

898
01:18:45,106 --> 01:18:55,546
18 to 49 demographic um kimmel was averaging 129 000 views in that demographic uh which i thought

899
01:18:55,546 --> 01:19:01,906
was just nuts um and i thought about it it's like it's just not you know when people want to see

900
01:19:01,906 --> 01:19:06,906
their celebrities. You know, if they want to see Rod Palmer, you know, they're going to go to

901
01:19:06,906 --> 01:19:10,586
TikTok. They're going to go to Instagram. They're not going to turn on Jimmy Kimmel and see an

902
01:19:10,586 --> 01:19:17,546
interview. They're going to go to the Bugle and listen to the interview there. They're going to

903
01:19:17,546 --> 01:19:24,106
go to the Rogans, you know, and see, watch it, watch the interview. It's just a dying breed.

904
01:19:24,586 --> 01:19:30,026
And it just kind of goes to show that that 18 to 49, they're just, I mean, I don't even know how

905
01:19:30,026 --> 01:19:35,326
129,000 ended up there. It seems like they had their antenna and it was just,

906
01:19:35,546 --> 01:19:39,286
it was just something to put on while they were cleaning the house or something, you know?

907
01:19:40,726 --> 01:19:46,426
It's because we're so inundated with, with all these different options now. And they're very

908
01:19:46,426 --> 01:19:51,986
personal. If you look at the music industry, you know, they have to get that X amount of followers

909
01:19:51,986 --> 01:19:57,726
before they're even taken seriously. You know, Rod on, on Noster, I mean, his first hundred,

910
01:19:57,726 --> 01:19:58,886
100 followers.

911
01:19:59,206 --> 01:20:00,966
I mean, it was the heart.

912
01:20:01,166 --> 01:20:04,206
And now he's up to like 300, which is just amazing to see.

913
01:20:05,966 --> 01:20:07,486
I thought it was like 500.

914
01:20:08,446 --> 01:20:18,675
You so short I would be disappointed if you know Jimmy Kimmel now is looking for a platform

915
01:20:19,556 --> 01:20:22,375
What if Jimmy Kimmel came to DOS and started making vlogs?

916
01:20:22,615 --> 01:20:23,395
We're here, man.

917
01:20:23,755 --> 01:20:30,095
You know, 4K, Ultra UHD, you know, maybe even 3D.

918
01:20:30,355 --> 01:20:32,495
Get it up to a one gigabyte vlog.

919
01:20:32,495 --> 01:20:39,475
You know, make it really get those phones burning like they do on 40 hours per week.

920
01:20:40,515 --> 01:20:46,076
Test those media servers and those caching services on Primal.

921
01:20:47,216 --> 01:20:56,275
If your internet provider hasn't emailed you that you've reached your 50% limit with 30 days left, you're not nostring hard enough.

922
01:20:56,275 --> 01:21:08,195
yeah that's real though i've ever since so when i first got on noster um i've never approached

923
01:21:08,195 --> 01:21:15,356
anything on my wi-fi's internet service provider but there was times when like it was just eating

924
01:21:15,356 --> 01:21:20,455
and i think thomas was one of the the big ones for me when i was heavy into thomas is like

925
01:21:20,455 --> 01:21:25,695
dude this thing is like taking a lot of data and it's i guess it's because i'm pulling from

926
01:21:25,695 --> 01:21:31,255
all these relays, trying to draw on all this data that I'm not actually even consuming.

927
01:21:31,915 --> 01:21:33,856
So it was just an interesting point.

928
01:21:34,035 --> 01:21:37,295
But like you said, Mike, we're so early, right?

929
01:21:39,275 --> 01:21:40,155
So early.

930
01:21:42,295 --> 01:21:43,556
So anything else?

931
01:21:43,616 --> 01:21:44,795
What's coming up with you, Mike?

932
01:21:45,356 --> 01:21:47,396
Any plans in the future?

933
01:21:48,816 --> 01:21:49,955
You taking a little break?

934
01:21:51,795 --> 01:21:53,116
What's next for you?

935
01:21:53,116 --> 01:21:59,655
yeah we're doing um there will be an event in late october at bitcoin park

936
01:21:59,655 --> 01:22:06,175
i i'm not quite ready to throw all the details out there yet but um

937
01:22:06,175 --> 01:22:14,155
we are excited for it um it'll be a saturday night and um

938
01:22:14,155 --> 01:22:20,455
that'll be that'll be the next toonster event i'm i'm going down to austin to

939
01:22:20,455 --> 01:22:23,376
meet with some of the plebs down there in November.

940
01:22:24,275 --> 01:22:27,475
And yeah, we'll see what's next. We're looking a lot at

941
01:22:27,475 --> 01:22:31,316
next year and been talking to the WhatFest team

942
01:22:31,316 --> 01:22:34,636
about the 21st anniversary and

943
01:22:34,636 --> 01:22:38,915
the hashtag Nostropalooza has been floating around the

944
01:22:38,915 --> 01:22:43,455
Nostroverse the last few days. So that's been a discussion item in the

945
01:22:43,455 --> 01:22:47,556
chat rooms. Have you reapplied

946
01:22:47,556 --> 01:22:54,935
for open stats you love that uh trolling trolling

947
01:22:54,935 --> 01:23:00,995
those fuckers dude that's all i gotta say

948
01:23:00,995 --> 01:23:06,596
uh rod speaking of open stats how many applications have you put in

949
01:23:07,215 --> 01:23:15,715
no i i send one per day um uh it's kind of like andy dufresne and uh shaw shank he writes

950
01:23:15,715 --> 01:23:19,876
You rushed the government one letter constantly until they finally give him a library.

951
01:23:21,795 --> 01:23:22,715
That's it, man.

952
01:23:22,915 --> 01:23:26,596
Next thing you know, he's scraped his way out with a rusty spoon.

953
01:23:27,136 --> 01:23:30,136
So what's up, Rod?

954
01:23:30,356 --> 01:23:34,795
So I guess tell me what you did today, because this is your second episode.

955
01:23:35,056 --> 01:23:36,396
Your voice.

956
01:23:37,435 --> 01:23:42,356
I mean, you have to be consuming cigarettes in between these just to make sure your voice stays proper.

957
01:23:42,356 --> 01:23:49,995
there we we interviewed matt odell we got confronted about his grumpiness and and asked

958
01:23:49,995 --> 01:23:58,655
him about his support of the core devs in this uh controversial time um yeah it was there was a

959
01:23:58,655 --> 01:24:04,535
good one it's it's always you know football players calling two a days uh podcasters also

960
01:24:04,535 --> 01:24:08,995
calling two days when you do a couple podcasts in one day yeah when's that gonna drop

961
01:24:08,995 --> 01:24:17,376
it's uh it was live so i think it is already available on x on the timeline air might be on

962
01:24:17,376 --> 01:24:24,295
youtube uh probably on fountain and the other podcast platforms tomorrow uh when when on facebook

963
01:24:24,295 --> 01:24:30,235
they're at the house richard greaser he's got the uh the insect to facebook

964
01:24:30,235 --> 01:24:36,535
yeah so what what else you guys brewing um are you doing satirize the system again next year

965
01:24:36,535 --> 01:24:40,015
because it already has been announced that it's back in Vegas.

966
01:24:41,275 --> 01:24:45,596
We are not doing Sathrae's system this year, or 2026.

967
01:24:45,596 --> 01:24:53,596
We've got a much bigger, much bigger buil event going on next year.

968
01:24:54,096 --> 01:24:55,116
That is, to me, determined.

969
01:24:55,295 --> 01:24:57,816
We can't announce that one yet, but trust me, it's big.

970
01:25:00,336 --> 01:25:06,235
Next year is going to be more for the Buked Wives shows.

971
01:25:06,235 --> 01:25:10,235
we're going to be doing that more often right now we're just focused on we've got the subscription

972
01:25:10,235 --> 01:25:15,396
so you can subscribe uh i think it's you know five dollars or you know a little over five thousand

973
01:25:15,396 --> 01:25:22,755
sets per month for exclusive content and we're creating more just more audio and video and

974
01:25:22,755 --> 01:25:28,916
live stream content uh going forward yeah and speaking of how how's that how's that been to

975
01:25:28,916 --> 01:25:35,916
what does it when you when you because we're in the same boat um when you take on that you say

976
01:25:35,916 --> 01:25:41,376
okay, you know, we're going to, you know, offer this, uh, you can subscribe and, uh, people can

977
01:25:41,376 --> 01:25:47,495
pay you sats, uh, for extra content. Uh, does it feel like there's a little bit of pressure or a

978
01:25:47,495 --> 01:25:52,015
little thing in the back of your head? Like, you know what, I need to make sure my content, uh,

979
01:25:52,015 --> 01:25:57,376
is valuable or just kind of pressure you a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I think it can. I think it should.

980
01:25:57,376 --> 01:26:05,596
Um, I think you should, if you're gonna offer paid subscribe content, things like that,

981
01:26:05,596 --> 01:26:14,995
um wait a little while build an audience kind of find your your voice so to speak um and because

982
01:26:14,995 --> 01:26:21,695
the way we're kind of approaching it at least i am um is that we're trying to grow and we're trying

983
01:26:21,695 --> 01:26:29,195
to reach a broader audience but we don't want to sacrifice this like the type of content that are

984
01:26:29,195 --> 01:26:35,356
um you know our our diehards people have been there we want to give them and they've already

985
01:26:35,356 --> 01:26:41,076
shown us that they'll pay for our content they'll boost us 10 20 30 dollars worth of sats um each

986
01:26:41,076 --> 01:26:47,675
episode so instead of just doing that it's like why don't we make content specifically tailored

987
01:26:47,675 --> 01:26:53,275
where we don't have to hold back at all for you because you get what we're talking about and we

988
01:26:53,275 --> 01:27:00,175
can still kind of grow the bugleverse through the uh the free free content that we put out there on

989
01:27:00,175 --> 01:27:09,175
a regular basis yeah makes sense so any call to action boys uh start with you mike or any last

990
01:27:09,175 --> 01:27:18,816
words my my call to action is always get out there and zap that that really is that's the

991
01:27:18,816 --> 01:27:25,636
most important signal in in nostre in the content creation is that that is such a differentiating

992
01:27:25,636 --> 01:27:32,235
feature that every artist finds interesting and every artist looks at and it's like wow that

993
01:27:32,235 --> 01:27:37,896
you can get into all the technical stuff about like how profound it is that we're sending magic

994
01:27:37,896 --> 01:27:42,775
internet money across borders and da da da da but just having the little zap button right next to

995
01:27:42,775 --> 01:27:48,535
the heart or the, or the, uh, thumbs up instead of just your normal likes.

996
01:27:48,535 --> 01:27:49,856
It really does.

997
01:27:50,636 --> 01:27:52,755
Um, it does matter.

998
01:27:52,755 --> 01:28:02,935
And when people see those, those, uh, transactions go through, if, if we had a broader community

999
01:28:02,935 --> 01:28:10,576
of people just seeking out songs that they love and deliberately zapping them, that's

1000
01:28:10,576 --> 01:28:11,215
a pretty cool.

1001
01:28:11,215 --> 01:28:13,816
community to be a part of.

1002
01:28:15,775 --> 01:28:17,675
It's definitely powerful.

1003
01:28:18,556 --> 01:28:19,076
Rod?

1004
01:28:19,795 --> 01:28:23,076
To go back to the sermon at the beginning,

1005
01:28:24,576 --> 01:28:27,235
I think your listeners and people

1006
01:28:27,235 --> 01:28:30,576
on NOSRA have noticed that all this stuff is happening.

1007
01:28:30,735 --> 01:28:34,195
It's coming all to the corners of the internet. It's coming to the niche

1008
01:28:34,195 --> 01:28:36,655
community on a niche protocol.

1009
01:28:36,655 --> 01:28:46,396
I would say that it's good that we've identified and admitted that it's the conflict has come here.

1010
01:28:46,396 --> 01:29:06,195
I would just put it like an analogy of when the conflict and this kind of stuff makes it to your citadel, it's at a certain point you got to take personal responsibility to kind of be the leader and the peacemaker on your part of the network.

1011
01:29:06,655 --> 01:29:12,695
So I think if it's getting to that point where everybody's kind of seeing this stuff boil over, it's stepped up.

1012
01:29:12,916 --> 01:29:20,735
And if you can, be the leader, the peacemaker, the defender, whatever it is of your community.

1013
01:29:23,316 --> 01:29:25,596
Yeah, well said. Totally agree.

1014
01:29:25,596 --> 01:29:36,936
And I did see, you know, last week, it seemed like a lot of people were trying to kind of be the main characters and weigh in on their optics.

1015
01:29:37,436 --> 01:29:40,336
And it was just, it's kind of like, come on, dude.

1016
01:29:40,495 --> 01:29:41,195
Like, I don't know.

1017
01:29:41,715 --> 01:29:44,936
We just don't pick a side and weigh in.

1018
01:29:45,076 --> 01:29:50,596
Just, you know, we can have discussions and we can, you know, the ideas, it's a place for ideas, it's a place for conversation.

1019
01:29:51,655 --> 01:29:52,515
Arguments are great.

1020
01:29:52,735 --> 01:29:53,755
Friction builds diamonds.

1021
01:29:53,755 --> 01:29:59,675
But, you know, it's just something that we need to, I say we, but, you know, I'm just talking about myself.

1022
01:29:59,795 --> 01:30:05,975
It's just let's never, never, never, never forget the bigger purpose, the bigger picture.

1023
01:30:06,396 --> 01:30:11,135
And for me, that's money from state and better for humanity.

1024
01:30:11,475 --> 01:30:18,056
So it's easy to get caught in the reality TV that we see every day.

1025
01:30:18,416 --> 01:30:19,235
So, yeah.

1026
01:30:19,876 --> 01:30:20,576
All right.

1027
01:30:20,635 --> 01:30:21,556
Well, thank you, boys.

1028
01:30:21,556 --> 01:30:22,836
I appreciate it.

1029
01:30:22,876 --> 01:30:26,295
It's kind of a, just let's throw together a little round table.

1030
01:30:26,495 --> 01:30:29,436
I think we touched on a lot of things, you know,

1031
01:30:29,475 --> 01:30:31,195
and I really appreciate you guys coming.

1032
01:30:31,655 --> 01:30:32,795
I consider you friends.

1033
01:30:33,195 --> 01:30:36,695
And Rod, I look forward to meeting you in real life one day.

1034
01:30:36,836 --> 01:30:40,336
Me and Open Mike are like brothers when we unite.

1035
01:30:40,856 --> 01:30:42,015
Yes, yes.

1036
01:30:42,116 --> 01:30:43,715
It's going to happen soon for sure.

1037
01:30:44,356 --> 01:30:46,675
Me and the, who's got the kids in the background?

1038
01:30:49,635 --> 01:30:50,076
You?

1039
01:30:51,556 --> 01:30:53,015
You got kids?

1040
01:30:54,056 --> 01:30:56,655
No, I hear it sounds like baby goats.

1041
01:31:00,336 --> 01:31:04,356
No, no, that's just your alter ego there, Rod.

1042
01:31:05,155 --> 01:31:09,356
Well, thank you very much, everyone, for tuning in to Pleb Chain Radio.

1043
01:31:09,675 --> 01:31:12,356
If you appreciate us as much as we appreciate you,

1044
01:31:12,876 --> 01:31:16,015
listen on Fountain App and consider hitting the subscribe button.

1045
01:31:16,556 --> 01:31:18,816
Until next week, gentle plebs, goodbye.