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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses

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on the intersection of NOSTER and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current

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thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,

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doers, and plebs.

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All right, we are live.

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Welcome, gentle plebs, to episode number 117 of Pleb Chain Radio.

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Today is Friday, 6-20-25.

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The time of recording is 5.01 p.m. Eastern Time.

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Today, our guests, we're going to be doing everything mining.

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So whether it's solo mining, hashrate marketplace, maybe your mining pool, whatever it is.

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Nico with Wrigley, Abendo, and the newly formed Alliance. Then also our secondary guest is Hash,

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the Hash Master. We call him in the solo mining circles. I think it's going to be a great show

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in regards to the production side and the consumer side of Hash rating, Hash mining.

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So let's talk.

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Make sure to listen on Fountain and subscribe for early access and bonus episodes.

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I actually just did an episode with Sam Means from Lightning Store and Wavelake.

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That's been posted on our bonus material.

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And Avi did one with Jameson Lopp.

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So we've had two episodes now that we're trying our best to pump out some premium.

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This show is streamed live on Zap.Stream and any other Noster client that supports streaming, such as Amethyst and No Stir.

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And today's meme readout, I've actually never done a meme readout, but you might notice that Avi is not here.

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Avi's doing the Lord's work. He's taking up a missionary position, and he's on a mission right now in Prague, spreading the gospel of Satoshi.

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So Avi, if you're listening, I love you, buddy.

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We miss you.

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So this mean readout is one frame.

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It's a gentleman.

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He's got his daughter on his lap and the son playing on the ground.

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It looks like it's set in 1950.

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He's sitting on a couch.

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And the daughter says, Daddy, what did you do when the big miners centralized?

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He says, we formed an alliance of solo miners to snipe blocks, honey.

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The son on the ground says, fucking legends.

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I like that one. So Culture Corner, upcoming events, Nostrebama, July 14th through the 17th.

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That's in Mobile, Alabama. That one's building up steam. Check out Sergio on Nostre. He's usually

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the one posting about Nostrebama. Nostrebama actually has a Nostre account now. And I think

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they have a website. So if you're going to be in that area, definitely check out Nostrebama.

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It's a free event.

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There'll be t-shirts, dog tags, the whole nine.

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So good luck out there.

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Lake Satoshi coming up August 1st through 3rd.

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That's in mid-area of Michigan.

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Lake Satoshi, look that up.

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Solid plebs.

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Those are really grassroots pleb events and a big fan of that.

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So today, our largest zapper, our largest zapper in the last week, I don't know who it was.

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It was an Anon. It was an Anon zap from the bunker.

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So I'm going to do a roast of someone that I have no idea who they are.

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So here we go.

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Shadowy super coder holed up in their bunker.

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Picture this, a keyboard warrior who thinks they're Neo of the Matrix,

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but looks more like Gollum guarding a Red Bull stained laptop.

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They're typing 200 words per minute,

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yet their social skills are stuck in 56k modem territory.

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Dial up, slow, and constantly disconnected.

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This sovereign individual's bunker is a shrine to chaos.

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Empty energy drink cans stack like a post-apocalyptic art installation.

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A flickering monitor casting their face in a ghostly glow.

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And a chair that's probably fused to their body by now.

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They claim that they're hacking the mainframe to save the world.

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But the closest they've come to revolution is crashing their own Wi-Fi,

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trying to torrent a pirated copy of Hackers from 1995.

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Their diet, instant ramen, and the tears of defeated bugs in their code.

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They whisper, I'm in, to their screen at 3 a.m.

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But the only thing they've infiltrated is a Reddit thread arguing about core or knots.

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Keep dreaming, bunker bro.

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Your code might be tight, but your vitamin D levels are on witness protection.

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Thank you very much. We appreciate you and keep the zaps coming.

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Today's sermon, The Revolution Will Be Hashed.

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We are at the dawn of a new age where centralization is flourishing in the mempool,

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where ASIC manufacturing is centralized, where block templates are being created without miners' consent.

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This has gone on long enough.

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So a year or so ago, I wouldn't know.

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I wouldn't think twice.

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But there were problems.

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I had no idea there were problems.

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But where there are problems, there's heroes in this battle for decentralization.

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We're getting to the point where we have options now.

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We can just hash solo for less than 100 cuck bucks and pennies,

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and pennies on the monthly power bill.

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Decentralizing the hash rate is also decentralizing the risk.

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Plebs are low risk, large numbers.

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We can just form an alliance and push back.

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Will it be profitable for solo miners?

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Maybe, but probably not.

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But where there's purpose, there's value,

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and we don't need a briefcase full of money to fight back.

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We can just do this on a shoestring budget by the thousands.

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I got into Bitcoin to separate money from state, to decentralize power, to create positive change for the next generation.

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I stand by this mission, so I will call on you listening now.

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Join the movement, join the resistance, and let's mine this revolution together.

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Friction brings change, and I, for one, am going to be a part of this positive change.

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So it may not be much, but hey, it's honest work.

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So speaking of solo mining, you know, or just mining in general, we have a guest segment today.

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And I would like to welcome Nico from Wrigley and the Hashmaster Hash.

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How we doing, Nico? How we doing, Hash?

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And is this thing on?

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What a rambling mess, I feel like.

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When I do an intro like this by myself without Avi, I realize how codependent our intro is because we break everything up.

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So it just ends up being me talking forever.

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And I don't like to hear my voice as much as anybody else.

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So how are we doing?

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Doing well.

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You did a great job.

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I thought it was – the meme and the sermon were both epic.

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It was a big smile on my face.

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Yes, I thought it went well.

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Well, the meme, you know, you might recognize that from our Telegram group.

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I did.

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Or on Noster, under the Wrigley account.

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So, Hash, how are you doing, buddy?

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Doing well. I'm doing well.

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Yeah, I love the sound of the Asics going in the background.

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Yeah, my bad.

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This show would not be complete without that sound.

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Indeed.

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And you know what?

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I've only had a bid-axe for like three weeks, and it's just one of those sounds you like to hear, right?

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Yeah, when the power goes out.

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Maybe not your wife or girlfriend or partner.

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I don't know how you roll, but it's something you get used to.

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You know the revolution is buzzing in the background, and my wife's like, what the hell is that?

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The soothing sound of decentralization.

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Yes.

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And chaotic cable management.

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But so, Nico, I have a burning question for you.

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Typically, we start off the show with a burning question.

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So let's say Foundry calls you, Nico.

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You get a phone call.

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It's Foundry.

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They call and ask to buy all your hash rate to funnel it to their pool.

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What do you do?

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That's a great question.

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Well, are you in it for the revolution?

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As somebody that is currently running a relatively non-trivial amount of hash rate, I have a lot of options.

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Foundry is definitely not high on that list.

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Nothing against the Foundry folks over there.

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I know a few of the guys.

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It's just not where I choose to point my voting power on the network.

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Interesting.

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There's this market where if you have enough hash, people are interested in it.

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Yeah, absolutely. So all the pools are kind of competing for your hash rate, right? So if you go to, you know, if you're mining on Brains and you say, hey, Luxor, Brains is giving me, you know, 1.5%, can you do 1%? And Luxor is going to be like, well, how much hash rate do you have? And if you have enough, like, yeah, sure, we'll give you 1%. And, you know, you can kind of play them off each other a little bit that way.

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It's definitely a race to the bottom in terms of fees, which is why Foundry before used to charge zero fees and just basically give out credit arrangements where they would kind of own your mining in exchange for zero fees.

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It was a little bit how they worked at first.

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And now they don't really do that anymore, and they charge a small fee to their miners.

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Isn't that everything, though?

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Isn't that like everyone's deal?

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You get your Netflix for $7.99.

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it even ships to your door and then now it's $30 and you're like,

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what the hell happened?

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Yeah.

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They lure you in and then they raise the rates.

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But with,

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with mining,

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can't you just,

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you know,

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just,

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I mean,

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it's as simple as just changing the pool,

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right?

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If you're not,

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if you disagree.

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Yep.

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You can do it with the flick of a switch.

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I have it automated where we have three pools kind of on standby that I can

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kind of filter between.

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and I'll often run hashrate in parallel

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amongst all the different pools

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just to kind of keep them honest

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and see how the payouts are

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and kind of track each of them.

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So this last week,

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well, number one,

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RIP, my Raspberry Pi 4,

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Raspberry Pi 4.

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Ever since I tried to re-download

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the initial blockchain,

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it just would freeze out in the 70s.

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And I got to think and I got to thank all the ordinal pooping in the park that was going on for that.

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So what I'm getting at is I upgraded my node.

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So I did a brand new build.

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I got a start and I got my start nine back on there.

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And I love the fact that I can just switch between core and knots within just you know 30 seconds So once again just keeping people honest with just you know a flip a flip of the switch right

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Yeah. That flexibility is really useful, right?

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Where you're not tied.

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Whether you agree with any of them, or if you, you lean one way,

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maybe I lean one way the other, the next week I have that switch.

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So it's, I mean,

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I think that's what this whole decentralization is about.

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and what that does is create that market like you're saying for for hash or market for

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a block confirmation whatever it is you have that switch so let's let's let's dive into some things

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number one hash what's your backstory what radicalized you man oh man i i have quite a bit

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of history um unfortunately and maybe how what what what conditioned you to all of a sudden you're a

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Noster because that's a big that's a big difference from me let's say my space back in the day oh yeah

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for sure um I used to be on Twitter back in the day and then just left because it was it was a cesspool

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and then I you know to be honest I forget how I stumbled upon Noster but I've never looked back

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and it's been a breath of fresh air to be honest

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but yeah

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are you curious as far as my history with Bitcoin

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and mining?

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You don't have to go into that

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but you've clearly into mining now

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so what conditioned you to say I'm going to be a miner?

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well you don't start out at mine it's not 2011 anymore you know well i mean that's interesting

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that you bring that up i so back in like 2010 i want to say i this was around the time when the

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client was three in one so you had the wallet the node and the miner built into the application

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so I remember I had a brief stint

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you know dabbling with that

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you know this was back in the day like everybody was

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majority was still running Windows XP

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I remember running it

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and the rest is history

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I don't know what I did I lost interest

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I don't know it's unfortunate that I lost interest at that time

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that's kind of like my first touch

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it like mining if you could say that when it was still cpu based um sorry what what version of the

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client were you running that's awesome i have i don't i don't know it was whatever client that

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still had the three in one so you you would have to go back into the release yeah you'd have to go

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back into the release history but that is what i remember it's a vague memory uh i wish i had more

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involvement back then like I do now but um but yeah fast forward to probably 2023

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which I was dabbling in like how can I you know stand up my own rigs in my in my residential house

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like what what's all involved there okay you know I'm gonna have to hire an electrician

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you know do all that to get you know you know some of these beefier miners running

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on residential power, right? So I'm like, this isn't really feasible anymore. Like, I'm already

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going to dump, you know, a lot of money into this. And then I stumbled upon, like, Bidaxe.

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I was like, oh, this is cool, you know? Like, it's, the barrier to entry is pretty reasonable, like,

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100 bucks or whatever it was. Alright, I'll grab one. And then at that point, I was like, okay,

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this is cool because it's the one ASIC on there and that's all it takes.

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Right.

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Um,

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so from that point on,

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it's,

233
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it's just been an,

234
00:15:39,052 --> 00:15:39,492
uh,

235
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an addiction you could say.

236
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Uh,

237
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and I love it.

238
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And yeah,

239
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and now we're here.

240
00:15:46,392 --> 00:15:46,772
So,

241
00:15:46,772 --> 00:15:51,532
and Nico,

242
00:15:51,712 --> 00:15:53,432
I know you've been on our show before,

243
00:15:53,432 --> 00:15:54,012
but let's,

244
00:15:54,112 --> 00:15:55,972
let's talk about why you got into mining.

245
00:15:58,172 --> 00:15:58,652
Yeah.

246
00:15:58,892 --> 00:15:59,392
Um,

247
00:15:59,392 --> 00:16:07,672
So I started working in Bitcoin because I kind of fell in love with the system back in 2016.

248
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And my first kind of foray into working in the industry was to try and do some like technical writing,

249
00:16:16,392 --> 00:16:22,692
like think, you know, GitHub man pages for developers so I could kind of better understand the system.

250
00:16:22,692 --> 00:16:30,892
and I was working for BTC.com,

251
00:16:31,172 --> 00:16:34,492
which some of the kind of older folks

252
00:16:34,492 --> 00:16:36,852
who have been around a little bit longer may remember

253
00:16:36,852 --> 00:16:39,472
because they had a really popular wallet SDK.

254
00:16:39,472 --> 00:16:44,072
It's an open source wallet that you could basically build yourself.

255
00:16:45,332 --> 00:16:47,072
And they needed some help with their documentation,

256
00:16:47,452 --> 00:16:48,212
so I helped with that

257
00:16:48,212 --> 00:16:51,412
and then moved over to their block explorer

258
00:16:51,412 --> 00:16:53,172
and finally was working with their mining pool.

259
00:16:53,392 --> 00:16:57,432
And at the time, this was right around the block size wars

260
00:16:57,432 --> 00:17:02,252
when SegWit and SegWit2x and the New York agreement

261
00:17:02,252 --> 00:17:03,432
and all these things were going on.

262
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And BTC.com had just gotten acquired by Bitmain.

263
00:17:09,252 --> 00:17:12,592
And all of a sudden, we all started working for Bitmain

264
00:17:12,592 --> 00:17:14,052
and things started to change.

265
00:17:14,072 --> 00:17:16,652
And we started to notice how they were all of a sudden

266
00:17:16,652 --> 00:17:19,112
starting to push a lot more Bitcoin Cash stuff.

267
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And it was like, oh, what's going on here?

268
00:17:21,412 --> 00:17:30,292
And then I think, I don't know, it must have been late 2018 when all of a sudden I think Bitmain couldn't pay like salaries anymore.

269
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They just kind of pulled the plug on our contract.

270
00:17:33,912 --> 00:17:39,912
And it was because they had had a bunch of faulty S17s that they put out into production.

271
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And alongside that, Jihan had pointed a lot of their self-mining hash rate to Bitcoin Cash.

272
00:17:47,172 --> 00:17:53,392
and basically those two things pretty much capsized the company. So Bitmain had basically

273
00:17:53,392 --> 00:18:01,552
become insolvent and they couldn't afford to pay their employees. At that point two things happened.

274
00:18:01,792 --> 00:18:09,872
One the guy the main designer the chip designer behind Bitmain's S9 at the time their flagship

275
00:18:09,872 --> 00:18:13,832
miner which was the best kind of bitcoin mining machine that had been produced to date

276
00:18:13,832 --> 00:18:17,292
was designed by this guy that left the company and started What's Miner.

277
00:18:18,892 --> 00:18:24,112
And so he left the company and then the guys that were running all of the pool infrastructure,

278
00:18:24,752 --> 00:18:31,872
which were the folks behind the btc.com pool, which at the time was the largest Bitcoin mining pool,

279
00:18:31,952 --> 00:18:32,972
left and started pooling.

280
00:18:34,112 --> 00:18:37,772
And I had been working with the pool guys and I kind of left at the same time

281
00:18:37,772 --> 00:18:42,252
and started helping out doing kind of more research type stuff over at Pooling.

282
00:18:43,832 --> 00:18:52,952
And yeah, that's where I kind of really started to get my hands a little dirtier in terms of what was really going on behind the scenes with mining.

283
00:18:53,752 --> 00:18:59,732
I helped Alejandro de la Torre out with taproot activation.

284
00:19:00,012 --> 00:19:02,132
So with Speedy Trial, if you remember that back in the day.

285
00:19:03,052 --> 00:19:10,152
They had to go to all the mining pools and basically explain to them like, hey, in order to activate this soft fork, you need to go through this process.

286
00:19:10,152 --> 00:19:12,672
And the mining pools were like, well, what's this soft fork even about?

287
00:19:12,672 --> 00:19:16,352
so we kind of did a lot of education there explaining all that.

288
00:19:19,172 --> 00:19:21,632
And eventually left Poolin.

289
00:19:21,832 --> 00:19:25,532
They started doing some shit coining and things weren't looking super great there

290
00:19:25,532 --> 00:19:28,432
because they were basically managing their liquidity for their pool

291
00:19:28,432 --> 00:19:32,452
through Three Arrows Capital and we all know how that ended up.

292
00:19:33,552 --> 00:19:38,292
So then they became insolvent and ended up having like a bunch of IOUs for their miners.

293
00:19:38,292 --> 00:19:47,272
So the lesson there is FPPS liquidity management is very much non-trivial and not transparent.

294
00:19:47,712 --> 00:19:50,172
And it's very risky on the pool side.

295
00:19:50,292 --> 00:19:55,312
So just because they're paying you at a fixed rate for that hash rate doesn't mean that there isn't risk.

296
00:19:55,412 --> 00:20:01,692
The pool is just absorbing all of that risk and it can very quickly go south, which is what happened with pooling.

297
00:20:02,652 --> 00:20:06,972
So even though you had a great technical team there, if you're not managing your funds correctly,

298
00:20:06,972 --> 00:20:09,892
things can go awry.

299
00:20:11,832 --> 00:20:15,972
So yeah, I left there and then started doing my own larger mining operations.

300
00:20:16,752 --> 00:20:19,332
Larger, not that large, but a few megawatts.

301
00:20:20,852 --> 00:20:23,492
In Argentina using Flare Gas.

302
00:20:23,872 --> 00:20:25,632
This was right around the time of the pandemic.

303
00:20:26,872 --> 00:20:29,352
And at the same time was still interested in,

304
00:20:30,452 --> 00:20:34,892
I've always worked closely with protocol development and Lightning Network

305
00:20:34,892 --> 00:20:41,272
and trying to figure out how to kind of merge mining with greater decentralization

306
00:20:41,272 --> 00:20:43,252
and how we can have better protocols around mining.

307
00:20:44,112 --> 00:20:48,032
And that's where I met Evan, who was trying to create a marketplace around mining.

308
00:20:48,052 --> 00:20:49,852
And that was something that I had been interested in.

309
00:20:49,892 --> 00:20:50,972
I was looking at potential solutions.

310
00:20:51,192 --> 00:20:53,152
And now we have Wrigley.

311
00:20:54,432 --> 00:20:54,832
Sorry.

312
00:20:55,132 --> 00:20:57,352
And what is Wrigley?

313
00:20:57,712 --> 00:20:59,012
So we did a show on this.

314
00:20:59,092 --> 00:21:01,572
Anybody that's listening and hadn't heard it,

315
00:21:01,572 --> 00:21:09,632
I do recommend going back to the Wrigley show with Evan and Nico, but just maybe a quick overview.

316
00:21:10,492 --> 00:21:10,792
For sure.

317
00:21:10,992 --> 00:21:28,052
So Wrigley is basically a peer-to-peer mining marketplace where Bitcoiners can buy, and I say Bitcoiners, not just anybody because we only take Bitcoin as payment, can buy hash rate from existing miners.

318
00:21:28,052 --> 00:21:35,412
So miners usually sell their hash rate to a pool or they do solo mining, kind of just mine by

319
00:21:35,412 --> 00:21:41,032
themselves, but usually they're trying to kind of lower the variance on getting rewards, which

320
00:21:41,032 --> 00:21:45,092
involves selling their hash rate to a pool, to make a long story short. And what we basically do

321
00:21:45,092 --> 00:21:47,892
is say, hey, instead of you selling it to this pool, why don't you just sell it to another

322
00:21:47,892 --> 00:21:53,272
Bitcoiner that will pay you for that hash rate? And we've kind of structured a few different

323
00:21:53,272 --> 00:22:01,432
products around how Bitcoiners choose to pay for that hash rate. The easiest way is you kind of just

324
00:22:01,432 --> 00:22:07,812
go and buy it directly and you're paying a premium for that. So if you want to, for example, have

325
00:22:07,812 --> 00:22:12,472
better privacy guarantees around your Bitcoin, mining is pretty much the most private way

326
00:22:12,472 --> 00:22:18,272
to access Bitcoin. So you can pay kind of a privacy premium there to buy a hash rate and take that

327
00:22:18,272 --> 00:22:24,892
off a miner's hands. And somebody might ask, well, why should I pay a premium or why should I put

328
00:22:24,892 --> 00:22:30,132
more Bitcoin than I'm going to be getting out? And the reason for that is that, well, otherwise the

329
00:22:30,132 --> 00:22:36,132
miner won't point their hash rate to you, right? If not, they'll just mine to their own pool account.

330
00:22:36,212 --> 00:22:41,792
So you have to kind of incentivize them to point the hash rate your way. We also have auctions,

331
00:22:41,792 --> 00:22:50,612
which is kind of a price setting mechanism for hash rate that will be delivered in the future.

332
00:22:51,472 --> 00:22:57,012
And that's useful for the miners because it allows them to kind of hedge what the risk of that hash price will be in the future.

333
00:22:58,772 --> 00:23:06,572
And either side can kind of win there in terms of who bets correctly on what the future value of the hash rate will be.

334
00:23:06,572 --> 00:23:15,572
And then our most recent way of selling hashrate on Wrigley is what's called fixed return, which has been selling out.

335
00:23:15,572 --> 00:23:18,572
So if you try and go buy it right now, we're trying to get you more hashrate.

336
00:23:18,572 --> 00:23:35,904
And that where you pay for it ahead of time Sorry go ahead And Hash have you actually used the product wriggly oh yeah heavily yeah how long have you been uh obviously you been hashing for a long time but how long have

337
00:23:35,904 --> 00:23:41,204
you been uh using the let's say hash rate marketplace like quickly oh so i got into

338
00:23:41,204 --> 00:23:47,724
a pendo you know with the auctions and then you know it was ran by wrigley so then i got

339
00:23:47,724 --> 00:23:53,524
interested in Wrigley. So I, you know, dug into that. And then I saw, oh, you can, you can buy

340
00:23:53,524 --> 00:23:58,424
hash, you know, on the spot. So I'm like, oh, that's cool. I'm just going to go in and,

341
00:23:58,724 --> 00:24:06,364
you know, buy some 120 terahash per second for 24 hours, you know, let's try it out. And

342
00:24:06,364 --> 00:24:13,664
I really like that ability to just on demand. Hey, I want to point hash at, you know,

343
00:24:13,664 --> 00:24:14,944
For example, the Alliance.

344
00:24:15,244 --> 00:24:20,904
And I think that's cool, the ability to do that within a few clicks.

345
00:24:21,724 --> 00:24:22,604
So, yep.

346
00:24:23,204 --> 00:24:24,024
Yeah, we have choice.

347
00:24:24,024 --> 00:24:29,044
You can just have your little solo miner 1.2 terahash sitting on your desk,

348
00:24:29,144 --> 00:24:37,904
or you can just big ball it and throw a petahash or something at whatever pool you want

349
00:24:37,904 --> 00:24:39,644
just with the click of the button.

350
00:24:39,644 --> 00:24:45,584
So it makes it to where you really get a full spectrum of a mining experience.

351
00:24:46,304 --> 00:24:48,684
And I've just been thrilled with it.

352
00:24:48,924 --> 00:24:59,124
In my learning curve that I've done, Wrigley is something that you kind of got to get used to it.

353
00:24:59,664 --> 00:25:03,324
You know, you're kind of like, okay, hash rate marketplace.

354
00:25:03,324 --> 00:25:09,724
is I've heard about, you know, these kind of online mining companies

355
00:25:09,724 --> 00:25:12,424
that have had issues in the past.

356
00:25:12,884 --> 00:25:14,344
How is this different, Nico?

357
00:25:15,724 --> 00:25:18,524
Yeah, so this is a common question we get.

358
00:25:18,524 --> 00:25:19,244
It's a big one.

359
00:25:19,344 --> 00:25:20,184
It's a big one, right?

360
00:25:20,424 --> 00:25:23,364
How is Wrigley not cloud mining, right?

361
00:25:23,904 --> 00:25:26,004
The compass mining is what I think of.

362
00:25:26,364 --> 00:25:28,624
Compass mining, right, right, right.

363
00:25:28,624 --> 00:25:35,604
they go bankrupt or they try to give you your ASIC you're like hey I want my ASIC that I was

364
00:25:35,604 --> 00:25:42,524
renting and it's it's non-operational yeah Evan on his desk in New York has a like a five thousand

365
00:25:42,524 --> 00:25:50,304
dollar paperweight which is the reminder of a failed hosting experience yeah yeah I mean we

366
00:25:50,304 --> 00:25:55,804
you know the ones that are ahead of us just make it that much harder when you but maybe maybe

367
00:25:55,804 --> 00:26:00,384
learning experiences like that are why we're better in the future, right?

368
00:26:01,064 --> 00:26:06,964
For sure. They're, you know, expensive lessons, but, you know, you definitely learn.

369
00:26:08,824 --> 00:26:14,704
Yeah. So, I mean, the reason why Wrigley isn't exactly like cloud mining or hosted mining

370
00:26:14,704 --> 00:26:23,724
is that in cloud mining, the person that's selling you the hash rate is the owner of those machines.

371
00:26:23,724 --> 00:26:32,244
So they have a big mining farm and they're saying, hey, I will rent you some time from my mining farm.

372
00:26:32,384 --> 00:26:38,484
And it's, you know, you go to Bitfufu or you go to Bitdeer and they're kind of like a one-stop shop.

373
00:26:39,124 --> 00:26:43,604
There isn't this kind of two-sided marketplace that we have with Wrigley.

374
00:26:45,364 --> 00:26:51,064
That's at least traditionally how cloud mining has worked and part of how we differentiate ourselves from cloud mining.

375
00:26:51,064 --> 00:27:05,984
The reason there is that usually cloud mining is the person that's selling you the hashrate has kind of unilateral control over pricing, delivering, accounting, all of these kind of aspects.

376
00:27:06,404 --> 00:27:14,004
Whereas with Wrigley, we're kind of this, just this intermediary that operates like the referee and the switchboard.

377
00:27:14,004 --> 00:27:23,064
So they'll point the hash rate at us and we'll point it to a buyer and we'll just observe that the conditions that the buyer and the seller came to the table with are met.

378
00:27:23,824 --> 00:27:38,284
And if they're not, then we issue reimbursements or potentially any kind of legal action that may need to take place in the event that there should be a breach of contract between the two parties.

379
00:27:38,544 --> 00:27:43,604
Obviously, we try and avoid that, but that's a little bit our role as an intermediary there.

380
00:27:44,004 --> 00:27:50,964
And then hosted mining is when you buy a machine outright and pay somebody to run it for you.

381
00:27:51,864 --> 00:27:57,084
So that's a little bit different as well because then you're forking up quite a bit of capital up

382
00:27:57,084 --> 00:28:03,024
front and you need to really trust that the person that's or the company that's going to run that

383
00:28:03,024 --> 00:28:10,384
machine is going to do so effectively. And there's also just like a lot of premium that gets built in

384
00:28:10,384 --> 00:28:16,484
there so it's like you usually they'll charge you a premium on the machine then a premium on the

385
00:28:16,484 --> 00:28:21,664
hosting fee a premium on the electricity fee that they're charging you and it's like all these places

386
00:28:21,664 --> 00:28:28,724
where they're taking out some margin in in Wrigley and on the marketplace we try and abstract that

387
00:28:28,724 --> 00:28:35,664
all out and we just say hey this is the value of hash rate or the going rate for hash rate on

388
00:28:35,664 --> 00:28:44,744
the pools today. Let's figure out a way in which you can align buyers and sellers around this going

389
00:28:44,744 --> 00:28:56,344
rate. Got it. And then since our last show, we did that show obviously about Wrigley and it was

390
00:28:56,344 --> 00:29:03,504
focused on Wrigley, but there's been some newer developments. And I think one that really made a

391
00:29:03,504 --> 00:29:13,164
splash on Noster. And what is Appendo? Sorry, I was just finding the unmute button there.

392
00:29:14,364 --> 00:29:24,564
Yeah, so Appendo is a new way to mine that Evan really came up with as a side project with

393
00:29:24,564 --> 00:29:31,604
Wrigley. It's kind of like a fun, you know, experiment to see, hey, what if we tried solo

394
00:29:31,604 --> 00:29:37,264
mining as a team. And the idea here is that usually when you mine, you mine to a pool,

395
00:29:37,604 --> 00:29:45,284
like I said before, to lower the variance and get payouts more consistently. The other option is you

396
00:29:45,284 --> 00:29:53,224
can not mine to one of these FPPS pools and you can try solo mining, which is mining for real.

397
00:29:54,124 --> 00:30:01,104
In other words, the way in which Satoshi intended, which is one CPU, one vote, right?

398
00:30:01,604 --> 00:30:07,444
And in that sense, Bitcoin mining is effectively a computational lottery.

399
00:30:08,224 --> 00:30:23,544
And that means that once on average, every 10 minutes, the network adjusts so that a share is found or a block is found that it meets the established difficulty for all the computers on the network that are trying to find a block.

400
00:30:23,544 --> 00:30:32,244
and by solo mining if you are fine if you do find that block instead of splitting the rewards

401
00:30:32,244 --> 00:30:38,664
with the rest of the pool you get to keep all the rewards right so you mine the block for yourself

402
00:30:38,664 --> 00:30:46,284
and what upendo does is say hey why don't we find kind of an intermediary point

403
00:30:46,284 --> 00:30:53,324
between kind of this massive pool mining and mining all by your lonesome why don't we just

404
00:30:53,324 --> 00:31:00,044
join forces with a few folks and see if we can find a blog together as part of a team, like a quest.

405
00:31:02,364 --> 00:31:07,484
And Evan started this out and realized like, hey, this is really fun. Did it on kind of Saturdays to

406
00:31:07,484 --> 00:31:13,644
see, you know, who would show up and posted it on Noster and all of a sudden folks started to show up.

407
00:31:13,644 --> 00:31:20,204
And yeah, it's really been a lot of fun to kind of build community around this. We've noticed that

408
00:31:20,204 --> 00:31:23,244
it does, it has become quite a popular event.

409
00:31:24,444 --> 00:31:30,124
It reminds me of the, the quests that we used to do back when Zaps first,

410
00:31:30,124 --> 00:31:34,564
first came around. I started something called the Zapathon.

411
00:31:35,624 --> 00:31:37,504
And what it was, what,

412
00:31:37,564 --> 00:31:42,944
what actually triggered me was Wallet of Satoshi at the time was,

413
00:31:43,044 --> 00:31:48,184
was the big Noster really easy custodial zapping wallet,

414
00:31:48,184 --> 00:31:57,284
no fee type of thing. And they made a note that said, hey guys, you know, you guys have been

415
00:31:57,284 --> 00:32:03,524
zapping a lot. We went ahead and, you know, increased our bandwidth or made it to where

416
00:32:03,524 --> 00:32:08,804
they adjusted for more volume. And I don't know if that's from channels or what happened on the

417
00:32:08,804 --> 00:32:15,304
back end. But that's when I realized, wait a second, we could break things here. So we started

418
00:32:15,304 --> 00:32:20,964
of doing these 30 minute, um, sometimes optional one hour, uh, zapathons where you zap as much as

419
00:32:20,964 --> 00:32:27,244
you can, uh, and see if you can take down Wallace Satoshi. Uh, and, and they played along too. They,

420
00:32:27,304 --> 00:32:31,744
they, they had a lot of fun on the, on the, on the, on the opposite side. Uh, and we did take

421
00:32:31,744 --> 00:32:36,824
them down multiple times at the end of the day. It was, it was, it was great for them, uh, because

422
00:32:36,824 --> 00:32:42,304
they were kind of just, uh, trial and error, uh, fixing what they, what they could when they saw

423
00:32:42,304 --> 00:32:46,804
surges like that. Cause ultimately if there's mass adoption, you're going to need those, uh,

424
00:32:47,224 --> 00:32:55,524
those, those runways open. Um, so it was, it was a cool community, um, push. And I feel the same

425
00:32:55,524 --> 00:33:02,184
energy when I think about the block parties. I, I think, you know, it might just be one block,

426
00:33:02,284 --> 00:33:08,404
but it's our block, right? How about that hash? Maybe you can talk about that.

427
00:33:08,404 --> 00:33:14,604
yeah no totally like and that's what it's about it's like making history right because that block

428
00:33:14,604 --> 00:33:21,004
is forever and always and to say that as a community it's an alliance that we're we did that

429
00:33:21,004 --> 00:33:29,264
how cool is that right it's a big it's a big uh you know middle finger to foundry and the big boys

430
00:33:29,264 --> 00:33:34,224
right so well and that's that's the next topic right because you're not only on the time chain

431
00:33:34,224 --> 00:33:54,684
You're not only leaving your mark in this world, but you're also, we're going up against this centralization, this mining centralization that I don't think we were really talking about this until the big debate with Mechanic and all the block template and the spam.

432
00:33:55,264 --> 00:33:59,484
All this stuff where everyone's like, well, I haven't even thought about mining really.

433
00:33:59,824 --> 00:34:01,784
And then everything's good for Bitcoin.

434
00:34:01,924 --> 00:34:02,844
Everything's good for Bitcoin.

435
00:34:02,844 --> 00:34:09,284
it wasn't really a discussion. Um, and I feel like now more than ever, especially on the mempool,

436
00:34:09,464 --> 00:34:15,504
all you see is foundry, foundry, ant, ant, foundry, foundry. And you're like, this is really wrong.

437
00:34:15,504 --> 00:34:23,924
In my opinion. Um, yeah. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, early on, you know, blocks are being mined

438
00:34:23,924 --> 00:34:29,804
by people on their laptops. Right. And then that kind of shifted over time and that got

439
00:34:29,804 --> 00:34:37,204
capitalized by big companies. Um, and I, I feel like now is the time to kind of take a step back

440
00:34:37,204 --> 00:34:44,084
and kind of shift that back to, uh, the people as a whole, right? Cause you, you get too much

441
00:34:44,084 --> 00:34:50,364
monopolization of mining companies. Uh, it's not good. Right. And that's, and that's been a concern

442
00:34:50,364 --> 00:34:59,164
for a long time. Right. So I think, I think what we're doing now is, is good. Uh, but, uh, over

443
00:34:59,164 --> 00:35:03,664
time. We just have to build more momentum though, to make a big impact. Right. So,

444
00:35:03,664 --> 00:35:24,956
well and it it gets to the point where we we not going to be um the big the big one out there I mean me personally I not going to go have a mining farm I not going to go make this profitable thing where I can always apply capital forward to continue to increase my mining rigs I just not in the place to do that

445
00:35:24,956 --> 00:35:29,155
So it was kind of a part of Bitcoin that I never really thought about.

446
00:35:30,155 --> 00:35:37,456
But seeing a problem creates an opportunity for me to at least do my part in changing things.

447
00:35:37,975 --> 00:35:52,095
And I think that big movement of, you know, whether it's the BitX project or NerdMiner or all these smaller, lower wattage ASICs out there, it really makes this kind of a hobby.

448
00:35:52,095 --> 00:36:12,896
You know, maybe I'm LARPing. I don't know. But it's something where I'm doing my part and I feel like, you know, I sleep well at night. I don't know about these corporations that their entire life revolves around hash rate and the cost of energy to deliver that hash rate. Nico, how are you sleeping at night?

449
00:36:12,896 --> 00:36:24,356
yeah i have it's i have a lot of exposure to kind of this this world uh and it's really interesting

450
00:36:24,356 --> 00:36:32,715
to see all of the fiat games that are played by um large publicly traded mining companies

451
00:36:32,715 --> 00:36:42,315
and the tricks and the just fundamental like unsustainability of how these companies basically

452
00:36:42,315 --> 00:36:51,655
just take out debt and play with their valuations totally like against the um you know future

453
00:36:51,655 --> 00:36:56,456
value like real value that they're able to generate for their shareholders right it's like

454
00:36:56,456 --> 00:37:01,135
they're kind of playing valuation games taking out convertible notes on debt to cover and plug

455
00:37:01,135 --> 00:37:07,655
holes on not profitable mining for example right but they can out compete because they just again

456
00:37:07,655 --> 00:37:11,416
play the kind of the fiat game of just kind of printing more money, right?

457
00:37:12,696 --> 00:37:14,456
In order to grow their operations.

458
00:37:14,876 --> 00:37:17,196
And most don't hold their Bitcoin, right?

459
00:37:18,575 --> 00:37:19,535
Yeah, some do.

460
00:37:20,155 --> 00:37:23,635
And that's kind of part of playing into the valuation game.

461
00:37:23,696 --> 00:37:24,495
So yes, you're right.

462
00:37:24,535 --> 00:37:25,315
A lot don't.

463
00:37:25,675 --> 00:37:26,416
Some still...

464
00:37:26,416 --> 00:37:31,755
I feel like since this Bitcoin treasury craze has been happening, you're starting to see

465
00:37:31,755 --> 00:37:32,215
it more.

466
00:37:32,295 --> 00:37:32,575
Yeah.

467
00:37:32,575 --> 00:37:38,936
But, I mean, when mining wasn't profitable, everyone was kind of struggling.

468
00:37:39,075 --> 00:37:41,795
They were kind of forced to get off that Bitcoin standard, right?

469
00:37:42,015 --> 00:37:42,135
Yeah.

470
00:37:42,735 --> 00:37:43,495
Yeah, absolutely.

471
00:37:43,835 --> 00:37:45,975
And I think what they kind of realized was like, oh, wait a second.

472
00:37:46,055 --> 00:37:47,755
Our Bitcoin is more profitable than our mining.

473
00:37:47,936 --> 00:37:55,196
So, like, why don't we just, like, hold on to, like, the actual Bitcoin rather than liquidating it and trying to realize gains through, like, the mining profit, right?

474
00:37:55,196 --> 00:38:02,055
um well i i i can't be sure but i think meta planet just has like one hotel

475
00:38:02,055 --> 00:38:07,155
and that's their whole business and then they're just a bitcoin treasury company now so

476
00:38:07,155 --> 00:38:14,615
it's like bitcoin plus ai pump me pump me and that's what you end up seeing is that these

477
00:38:14,615 --> 00:38:19,655
mining companies like all of a sudden they're all on the ai like tip but it's not like they

478
00:38:19,655 --> 00:38:25,095
have really developed ai strategies or like as if you know just switching from bitcoin mining

479
00:38:25,095 --> 00:38:30,115
to AI mining is going to be the same. It's not. And when you really start to push back and be like,

480
00:38:30,175 --> 00:38:34,795
oh, so how do you actually plan on redeploying your whole fleet and, you know, shifting over

481
00:38:34,795 --> 00:38:39,995
from Bitcoin to AI, you realize that the teams that they have to bring on board for all of that

482
00:38:39,995 --> 00:38:44,475
are like totally different. The way they manage time is very different because AI projects,

483
00:38:44,555 --> 00:38:48,196
they think about them in like five, 10 year, like time horizons. And it's like, oh, well,

484
00:38:48,196 --> 00:38:51,515
you'll just pour a bunch of money into this and you'll develop it slowly. Whereas like,

485
00:38:51,515 --> 00:38:55,995
as Bitcoin miners every day that goes by is a day that you could have been mining. Right.

486
00:38:57,155 --> 00:39:03,916
So the, yeah, there's the kind of the time value there is just very different.

487
00:39:05,715 --> 00:39:15,275
So I guess all of this is sleeping well. Well, I mean, sleeping well in that, you know,

488
00:39:15,376 --> 00:39:20,995
I feel like working on like projects that like really matter in the long run for mining are

489
00:39:20,995 --> 00:39:32,356
important and what you realize is that um the um what's it called the the your time uh preference

490
00:39:32,356 --> 00:39:38,835
there we go uh for miners is often very short and that gets reflected in these public uh publicly

491
00:39:38,835 --> 00:39:45,876
trading companies whereas if you're able to mine with uh low time preference and figure out mining

492
00:39:45,876 --> 00:39:47,476
from a low time preference standpoint,

493
00:39:48,495 --> 00:39:52,535
calculating what's going to happen with the next halving.

494
00:39:52,775 --> 00:39:53,976
I can tell you right now,

495
00:39:54,035 --> 00:39:56,235
the entire mining industry is absolutely terrified

496
00:39:56,235 --> 00:39:57,155
by this next halving.

497
00:39:57,376 --> 00:39:58,715
We're always scared about the halving,

498
00:39:58,815 --> 00:40:01,715
but this next one in particular is absolutely horrifying.

499
00:40:03,175 --> 00:40:06,155
So running like a Wrigley hashrate marketplace,

500
00:40:06,436 --> 00:40:07,896
you're still in the mining field,

501
00:40:07,896 --> 00:40:09,976
but you've kind of separated yourself

502
00:40:09,976 --> 00:40:13,416
from that growing pain,

503
00:40:13,835 --> 00:40:17,735
the never-ending pain of running a hash,

504
00:40:18,476 --> 00:40:20,835
what is it, a mining pool?

505
00:40:21,635 --> 00:40:23,376
Right, a mining pool or a mining farm.

506
00:40:23,376 --> 00:40:23,715
Or a mining farm.

507
00:40:23,976 --> 00:40:24,795
Yeah, a farm.

508
00:40:24,876 --> 00:40:25,396
Right, right.

509
00:40:26,175 --> 00:40:27,495
I'm learning here, man.

510
00:40:27,675 --> 00:40:28,055
Come on.

511
00:40:28,675 --> 00:40:29,575
The different players.

512
00:40:31,015 --> 00:40:32,335
Learn in the alliance.

513
00:40:32,856 --> 00:40:34,095
Learn about upendo.

514
00:40:34,476 --> 00:40:35,876
Learn about the block party.

515
00:40:35,876 --> 00:40:38,295
And then ultimately learn about Wrigley,

516
00:40:38,295 --> 00:40:45,175
I think is the kind of the way you streamline the young plebs listening.

517
00:40:45,695 --> 00:40:46,055
For sure.

518
00:40:47,155 --> 00:40:47,635
Yeah.

519
00:40:47,835 --> 00:40:59,155
I mean, I think part of what Wrigley does is kind of bring more consciousness around mining and access to mining, right, to Bitcoiners broadly.

520
00:40:59,155 --> 00:41:03,396
and part of the way that I really like to think about this probably like from a more philosophical

521
00:41:03,396 --> 00:41:10,356
standpoint is that like oftentimes if you're sitting like on your bitcoin it it's it's kind

522
00:41:10,356 --> 00:41:17,595
of like latent uh voting capital on the network um when you if you convert that bitcoin into

523
00:41:17,595 --> 00:41:22,115
hash rate that then will come back to you in the form of bitcoin you're kind of activating that

524
00:41:22,115 --> 00:41:26,795
into like active voting power on the network that you're still going to get your bitcoin back but

525
00:41:26,795 --> 00:41:32,976
all of a sudden it has this kind of more like active democratic capacity on the network because

526
00:41:32,976 --> 00:41:39,535
you can choose you know how to deploy hash rate which is obviously the like consensus apparatus

527
00:41:39,535 --> 00:41:46,015
and the security mechanism behind the network right and that gives you another kind of tool

528
00:41:46,015 --> 00:41:55,695
in which you can interact and vote on how bitcoin is run right and you also get to choose on what

529
00:41:55,695 --> 00:42:00,515
kind of miners you want to support, right? So, you know, all of the miners that we list on like

530
00:42:00,515 --> 00:42:05,815
Wrigley and the hash rate that we're pointing towards Upendo and the different Wrigley products

531
00:42:05,815 --> 00:42:12,916
are all sourced from small to medium-sized miners that share this kind of like vision, right? And

532
00:42:12,916 --> 00:42:19,356
you are, you know, directly supporting those efforts of those miners and you're using the hash

533
00:42:19,356 --> 00:42:25,916
from those projects according to how you see like fit, right? What kind of mining pool do you want

534
00:42:25,916 --> 00:42:32,795
to be mining to? You know, block templates, you know, you name it. You can choose to mine to a

535
00:42:32,795 --> 00:42:39,735
datum server, right? So all of that is very much in line with what we're trying to kind of bring

536
00:42:39,735 --> 00:42:48,295
about with Wrigley. I've been fiddling with the datum gateway. That was my new thing.

537
00:42:48,295 --> 00:43:03,175
My Canaan Avalon Canon, Avalon 3S comes on Monday, and I'm going to be fiddling around with Datum, Core Lightning, and Bolt 12, and then Ocean.

538
00:43:03,876 --> 00:43:05,396
I'm trying some things out.

539
00:43:05,535 --> 00:43:15,735
I'm just trying to kind of grow a larger understanding of all the different tools that are available for the revolution, I suppose.

540
00:43:15,735 --> 00:43:22,876
So what you're saying is there's an alliance of mining farms out there too, not just solo miners.

541
00:43:24,795 --> 00:43:26,035
Yeah, that's right.

542
00:43:26,655 --> 00:43:27,735
So whenever you...

543
00:43:28,856 --> 00:43:31,356
Ultimately, we share the same vision, right?

544
00:43:32,515 --> 00:43:33,735
Yeah, absolutely.

545
00:43:35,735 --> 00:43:42,755
I think like when we're buying Hashrate or when you're pointing Hashrate to Upendo,

546
00:43:42,755 --> 00:43:53,695
So you're basically channeling all of that hashrate from these different small to medium-sized mining farms, right?

547
00:43:54,615 --> 00:44:06,675
That are kind of the bulwark of behind decentralization on the network and saying, hey, we're going to grab your guys' hashrate and point it towards the alliance, right?

548
00:44:08,896 --> 00:44:11,035
I didn't see that one coming.

549
00:44:11,035 --> 00:44:18,956
You know, the Appendo, and we'll talk about what the alliance is, but I guess let me pull back.

550
00:44:19,095 --> 00:44:29,315
What's the potential hash rate as in like how much does Wrigley have in the hopper for, I think the last block party we got up to, what was the peak hash?

551
00:44:31,555 --> 00:44:35,315
If I'm not mistaken, we made it up to, was it seven or eight?

552
00:44:35,635 --> 00:44:36,315
Yep, that's correct.

553
00:44:36,795 --> 00:44:36,876
Yeah.

554
00:44:36,876 --> 00:44:41,476
Yeah. And it's funny because I actually directed that to you, Hash.

555
00:44:41,995 --> 00:44:45,456
But because your name's Hash, it sounded like I finished the sentence.

556
00:44:45,755 --> 00:44:46,356
I get it now.

557
00:44:46,675 --> 00:44:53,735
And let's talk about that difficulty that was reached. How far off, Hash?

558
00:44:53,995 --> 00:45:04,916
Oh, my goodness. Like, I had my browser up. I had the raw JSON output from CK pool up.

559
00:45:04,916 --> 00:45:08,795
and it was like refreshing like every, I don't know, five seconds.

560
00:45:08,795 --> 00:45:10,936
It was like, it was going really hard.

561
00:45:11,135 --> 00:45:14,936
And I was just staring at it because, you know, I was out for the day.

562
00:45:15,015 --> 00:45:15,675
I came back.

563
00:45:15,715 --> 00:45:17,035
I was like, what is going on?

564
00:45:17,035 --> 00:45:26,135
You know, and I saw it hit 126.29 trillion difficulty, I believe.

565
00:45:26,655 --> 00:45:30,015
I was like, holy shit, we just, we just mined the block.

566
00:45:31,235 --> 00:45:33,015
But unfortunately we did not.

567
00:45:33,015 --> 00:45:40,936
we came up short and i posted it in the chat i but we were like off by like a couple hundred

568
00:45:40,936 --> 00:45:48,295
billion difficulty but in the grand scheme of things it wasn't very much at all so it was it

569
00:45:48,295 --> 00:45:55,175
was it was both awesome to see that we hit that difficulty but it was also very sad that we missed

570
00:45:55,175 --> 00:46:04,735
it by like a hair essentially. Yeah. We, we, we, we, we, we put our Starcraft in, we had it a 99.4,

571
00:46:04,995 --> 00:46:09,115
uh, downloaded and uploaded, almost installed. And then the computer crashed

572
00:46:09,115 --> 00:46:20,495
is what it felt like. We were almost there. Um, Nico, uh, how does that work? So let's say we hit

573
00:46:20,495 --> 00:46:27,396
the block. What works on the back end? I think that's the part where maybe people have questions

574
00:46:27,396 --> 00:46:36,995
because you typically, technically, Wrigley is kind of the escrow account. Yep. For the pool. Yep.

575
00:46:37,876 --> 00:46:43,735
So there's a lot of math on there. There is. We've spent two years developing a hash rate

576
00:46:43,735 --> 00:46:49,856
accounting system that does all that math using a PhD physicist who's developed it.

577
00:46:49,856 --> 00:46:51,575
Shout out to Asher.

578
00:46:52,447 --> 00:46:56,767
Um, yeah, so I mean, it's relatively straightforward.

579
00:46:57,207 --> 00:47:01,647
Um, and it's all auditable through, uh, CK pool.

580
00:47:02,647 --> 00:47:10,447
Um, the address that we're mining to, uh, is a multi-sig address.

581
00:47:10,447 --> 00:47:12,407
Uh, it's a two of three.

582
00:47:13,227 --> 00:47:21,487
Um, and we basically can issue, obviously if, uh, if UPendo is able to find a block

583
00:47:21,487 --> 00:47:23,527
when Upendo finds a block.

584
00:47:24,107 --> 00:47:27,407
And the rewards go to that address.

585
00:47:27,407 --> 00:47:35,827
We have the list of hashrate that worked to mine that block.

586
00:47:36,427 --> 00:47:39,027
And we basically carve out the rewards

587
00:47:39,027 --> 00:47:44,407
according to how much hashrate everybody on that table contributed.

588
00:47:45,327 --> 00:47:47,987
And right now the process is fairly manual.

589
00:47:47,987 --> 00:48:02,767
We just create transactions for each of those outputs and split up the reward appropriately or proportionally is the word according to what everybody was contributing.

590
00:48:04,367 --> 00:48:06,567
And I know we haven't.

591
00:48:06,607 --> 00:48:11,527
I say we because I participated in the last three block parties.

592
00:48:11,767 --> 00:48:16,747
But just to be clear, there's never been a block found on these block parties yet.

593
00:48:16,747 --> 00:48:21,047
And when it will be, how legendary will that be?

594
00:48:23,587 --> 00:48:24,607
Pretty epic.

595
00:48:27,347 --> 00:48:30,727
I mean, it's one thing, and Hash, you know,

596
00:48:30,847 --> 00:48:35,667
that when you see a solo CK pool or you see, you know,

597
00:48:36,167 --> 00:48:41,547
just maybe just a solo pool in general hit a block on the mempool,

598
00:48:42,427 --> 00:48:46,167
it's just like, oh, we got one type of thing.

599
00:48:46,167 --> 00:48:50,947
It might not have been you, but it was somebody that wasn't the opposition, right?

600
00:48:52,647 --> 00:48:53,467
Yeah, totally.

601
00:48:53,707 --> 00:49:00,767
And when you watch the blocks that CK Pool mines, it's like, you know, we might have a dry month.

602
00:49:01,167 --> 00:49:07,067
And that's kind of why in this last block party, I was like, oh, let's get it, you know, before June.

603
00:49:07,067 --> 00:49:14,687
But typically, you know, looking back on the history, you might get one every month.

604
00:49:14,687 --> 00:49:19,867
But right now, I think it's one every two months is projected.

605
00:49:20,167 --> 00:49:23,987
Last one we had was two weeks ago and prior was two months ago.

606
00:49:24,787 --> 00:49:30,687
So but still, yeah, it's it would be nice to see that tighten up a little bit.

607
00:49:35,447 --> 00:49:38,307
And Nico, the the CK pool.

608
00:49:38,647 --> 00:49:41,367
So talk about what Alliance has done.

609
00:49:41,367 --> 00:49:46,747
I mean, I feel like we've kind of hacked what CK Pool was intentionally for.

610
00:49:48,247 --> 00:49:48,807
Yeah.

611
00:49:50,067 --> 00:49:55,547
And when I say hack, basically, we're just making something work that maybe it wasn't intended for.

612
00:49:55,687 --> 00:49:57,227
Just the definition of hack.

613
00:49:57,967 --> 00:49:58,947
Yeah, for sure.

614
00:49:58,947 --> 00:50:08,287
yeah so I mean I think CKpool is usually the notion was that the address that you mine to

615
00:50:08,287 --> 00:50:16,407
on there would be to each individual's kind of address and that each address would represent

616
00:50:16,407 --> 00:50:23,407
one miner right and the hack here is that that address doesn't represent just one miner but it

617
00:50:23,407 --> 00:50:30,387
represents a shared account or a shared address amongst many different individuals, right?

618
00:50:32,007 --> 00:50:40,587
So in that way, we've, yeah, repurposed kind of their infrastructure in order to coordinate

619
00:50:40,587 --> 00:50:48,727
amongst many different miners, which we call the alliance, in order to mine in a totally

620
00:50:48,727 --> 00:50:49,827
independent way, right?

621
00:50:49,827 --> 00:50:56,927
yeah because you're basically putting two different ideas together that i don't think

622
00:50:56,927 --> 00:51:05,107
can coexist uh without a very intricate pull uh pool you have your let's say your your bounty pool

623
00:51:05,107 --> 00:51:12,467
where you have rules essentially these are rules made by you know consensus among us but if if it's

624
00:51:12,467 --> 00:51:17,947
not a block party time and you and one of us hits a block let's say there's a hundred of us then

625
00:51:17,947 --> 00:51:24,667
one person hits a block, they get one Bitcoin, the remaining 2.15 plus fees get distributed

626
00:51:24,667 --> 00:51:32,567
by hash around the pool. But then in that same pool, you have a pendo. So you turn into block

627
00:51:32,567 --> 00:51:38,807
party rules where, you know, it just surges hash, and whatever hits the block, it gets spread

628
00:51:38,807 --> 00:51:46,667
evenly, there's no more bounty. So how I feel like we're in a we're well, I think we're in the

629
00:51:46,667 --> 00:51:53,727
future with what we're doing. And we have a little bit of, I mean, we're just kind of bottlenecked by

630
00:51:53,727 --> 00:51:59,987
CK pool. And, you know, I think in the future, there's something where, you know, a protocol

631
00:51:59,987 --> 00:52:08,907
could be in place within pools, something like this, that really gamifies and inspires communities

632
00:52:08,907 --> 00:52:15,767
to, you know, get to solo mining and be on the forefront of change. What are your thoughts on

633
00:52:15,767 --> 00:52:23,347
that ego yeah so i think the new mining protocols are all moving in this direction right so strategy

634
00:52:23,347 --> 00:52:31,647
too has the job declarator client datum uses your basically your own bitcoin node to to also create

635
00:52:31,647 --> 00:52:38,967
your own block templates and to produce your own blocks so the idea is we want to push

636
00:52:38,967 --> 00:52:43,227
as much of block production as possible to the edge, right?

637
00:52:44,007 --> 00:52:47,367
So that everybody that is mining is mining according

638
00:52:47,367 --> 00:52:49,547
or is creating their own blocks.

639
00:52:51,127 --> 00:52:56,287
And right now with CKPool,

640
00:52:56,507 --> 00:52:59,867
we're still relying on CKPool's block template production.

641
00:53:01,087 --> 00:53:04,747
I think the idea would be that we can move towards a model

642
00:53:04,747 --> 00:53:08,187
where we can also be producing our own block templates

643
00:53:08,187 --> 00:53:15,187
on upendo and that different parties for example on upendo uh can have their own uh rules so you

644
00:53:15,187 --> 00:53:21,287
can imagine like you know qw and you know heather have recently had different like teams now imagine

645
00:53:21,287 --> 00:53:28,527
that like if you guys didn't agree on you know cats or jpegs on on the on the blockchain that

646
00:53:28,527 --> 00:53:35,467
like hey you know team heather would be like oh no i'm pro jpegs and qw would be like nah no jpegs

647
00:53:35,467 --> 00:53:42,307
on my blocks. And you could basically say, okay, let's have, let's express that difference

648
00:53:42,307 --> 00:53:49,247
through policies, right? Not just at the knots and mempool relay level, but at the actual

649
00:53:49,247 --> 00:53:55,887
block production level, right? And that's where one thing is, you know, it's being argued about

650
00:53:55,887 --> 00:54:01,087
a lot right now that the mempool side is like, well, if I relay, whether I want to relay these

651
00:54:01,087 --> 00:54:05,907
transactions or not. But then the kind of the stronger claim is whether those transactions

652
00:54:05,907 --> 00:54:11,207
actually get included in blocks. So if you have people that are creating their own blocks and

653
00:54:11,207 --> 00:54:15,707
they're the ones that are saying like no we want to filter these like transactions from the blocks

654
00:54:15,707 --> 00:54:21,847
that we're producing well that's a much stronger kind of epistemic claim on the network than just

655
00:54:21,847 --> 00:54:27,447
relay policy. So I'm not saying that relay policy isn't important it would just be another layer on

656
00:54:27,447 --> 00:54:32,087
which you can make that argument right or express that preference

657
00:54:32,087 --> 00:54:45,387
yeah and hash what is the alliance to you uh what's what's solo mining to you um what uh is it

658
00:54:45,387 --> 00:54:54,307
talk about the community i suppose yeah so i suppose in a nutshell it's uh bringing a community

659
00:54:54,307 --> 00:55:01,247
of miners and like-minded individuals together to kind of battle like the centralization that we see

660
00:55:01,247 --> 00:55:11,147
with the you know bigger mining entities right um i think if we reach a certain point where we get

661
00:55:11,147 --> 00:55:19,967
enough following we can be uh so to speak sniping blocks from these bigger entities and i think i

662
00:55:19,967 --> 00:55:27,587
posted a while back like uh even if we get like a thousand people in the alliance you know and they

663
00:55:27,587 --> 00:55:34,287
have you know a gamma let's say that's that's a petahash right that's nothing to scoff at really

664
00:55:34,287 --> 00:55:40,107
um and if you grow that to even like a hundred thousand which is a monumental number

665
00:55:40,107 --> 00:55:47,967
but if that if that's reached that's over a hundred petahash and in today's world that's

666
00:55:47,967 --> 00:55:50,287
roughly every month

667
00:55:50,287 --> 00:55:52,167
you know

668
00:55:52,167 --> 00:55:53,887
getting a block which

669
00:55:53,887 --> 00:55:56,107
that's pretty awesome right so

670
00:55:56,107 --> 00:55:57,507
um

671
00:55:57,507 --> 00:56:00,387
I just think it's about bringing

672
00:56:00,387 --> 00:56:02,087
that community together to

673
00:56:02,087 --> 00:56:04,007
kind of bring it back to the

674
00:56:04,007 --> 00:56:06,327
uh the ways of

675
00:56:06,327 --> 00:56:07,787
Satoshi uh

676
00:56:07,787 --> 00:56:10,087
so I don't know that's

677
00:56:10,087 --> 00:56:12,387
that's kind of in a nutshell what it is to me

678
00:56:12,387 --> 00:56:14,387
I and it's

679
00:56:14,387 --> 00:56:16,347
you know just sniping uh

680
00:56:16,347 --> 00:56:25,347
Nico was explaining how mining companies typically have a very high time preference, might be over levered.

681
00:56:26,547 --> 00:56:31,227
So sniping even 1%, maybe just a little bit.

682
00:56:32,307 --> 00:56:35,687
We as plebs have a very low time preference.

683
00:56:36,567 --> 00:56:40,607
So we have really nothing to lose in this.

684
00:56:40,607 --> 00:56:45,987
And I think that's one of the most powerful parts about solo mining with, let's say, a bid axe.

685
00:56:46,347 --> 00:57:09,137
And by the way in July there supposed to be I think most of the BIDX or solo mining websites are going to be being very very cheap in July So keep your eyes on that I hear that there going to be some deep discounts I don know if something else is coming and they want to move some product or what but July is going to be

686
00:57:09,137 --> 00:57:16,997
a big one. But yeah, it's something where we have the power in numbers, but we also have the power

687
00:57:16,997 --> 00:57:25,577
and we're not over levered. We have nothing to lose. And every time we snipe, every time we,

688
00:57:25,577 --> 00:57:32,617
you know another solo miner joins the alliance uh we're just we have that low time preference that

689
00:57:32,617 --> 00:57:42,497
over time we're just it's it's really just we're dissolving them in in in one aspect i suppose um

690
00:57:42,497 --> 00:57:50,997
yeah i i'm i think it's a powerful idea i think um you know it leads to uh you know direct buy and

691
00:57:50,997 --> 00:57:56,837
in upendo and it's, it's a fun game to play with the block parties. But another thing that I've

692
00:57:56,837 --> 00:58:02,737
noticed is we go all the way back up the chain to Wrigley where, you know, when you do your normal

693
00:58:02,737 --> 00:58:08,837
bounty rules, which is 24 seven mining in the Alliance, people are actually buying from Wrigley

694
00:58:08,837 --> 00:58:14,937
and pointing to the Alliance pool. So, you know, they're not necessarily profitable, but they're

695
00:58:14,937 --> 00:58:20,457
putting, you know, they're, they're kind of YOLOing into the, uh, into the Alliance pool,

696
00:58:20,517 --> 00:58:26,717
which I think is incredible too. Um, it's just interesting to watch it all. Uh, how much are

697
00:58:26,717 --> 00:58:32,337
you seeing, and I know this is kind of a new idea, Nico, but how much are you seeing people starting

698
00:58:32,337 --> 00:58:40,777
to YOLO into the CK pool during the, uh, bounty, bounty, uh, timeframe? Yeah. So recently, I think

699
00:58:40,777 --> 00:58:44,737
we've seen the last couple of weeks since our last block party,

700
00:58:45,157 --> 00:58:47,597
there's been a pretty significant amount of people

701
00:58:47,597 --> 00:58:50,737
that have bought Hashrate on Wrigley and tried to figure out,

702
00:58:50,837 --> 00:58:54,437
okay, hey, how do I buy it over here and just point it back to the Alliance?

703
00:58:56,897 --> 00:58:58,677
That's like a true flywheel, right?

704
00:58:58,917 --> 00:59:00,677
Yeah, absolutely.

705
00:59:02,757 --> 00:59:04,897
So I don't have the numbers off the top of my head,

706
00:59:04,957 --> 00:59:07,537
but it definitely has been quite a few.

707
00:59:07,537 --> 00:59:09,297
It hadn't happened before.

708
00:59:09,297 --> 00:59:38,617
It's a new deal. And because I monitor the hash for the CK pool every day and you'll see it, it'll be, you know, number one, our workers, the workers keep going up. So, you know, I think we're over, you know, 90 right now. That was 20 like two weeks ago. So it just continues to grow. But you'll see these just random surges of, you know, 200 tera hash just jump, you know, now. And you're like, what the hell was that?

709
00:59:38,617 --> 00:59:41,917
You're like, oh, someone's buying on Wrigley and pointing.

710
00:59:42,317 --> 00:59:44,457
Everyone's kind of doing their part in their own way.

711
00:59:44,957 --> 00:59:48,717
Maybe their Jones and because their bid axe hasn't arrived on their doorstep yet,

712
00:59:48,817 --> 00:59:50,517
and they still want to participate.

713
00:59:51,097 --> 00:59:53,817
So there's multiple ways to kind of participate in this,

714
00:59:53,937 --> 00:59:56,757
which is, I think, really powerful.

715
00:59:57,837 --> 01:00:05,317
Hash, you typically are the winner for the most part in the most hash,

716
01:00:05,317 --> 01:00:07,517
the total hash for these block parties.

717
01:00:08,617 --> 01:00:12,317
How hard are you in? How far are you in, man?

718
01:00:12,457 --> 01:00:16,357
I'm all in. I have a very high rate of conviction.

719
01:00:17,677 --> 01:00:20,537
And I'm very competitive as well.

720
01:00:20,537 --> 01:00:30,597
I think the one person in the community that's giving me the most competition is probably that Nikola Tesla on Noster.

721
01:00:31,417 --> 01:00:35,977
We've had some good battles, but no, I think it's great.

722
01:00:35,977 --> 01:00:41,717
competition is, you know, that, that helps out. Right. So, um,

723
01:00:42,497 --> 01:00:46,057
but yeah, going back to what you were talking about, like with Wrigley, like,

724
01:00:46,937 --> 01:00:51,137
heck yeah. Like, you know, just buy, buy hash on the spot,

725
01:00:51,277 --> 01:00:55,097
point it at the Alliance. There you go. Uh, and that, you know,

726
01:00:55,097 --> 01:01:00,857
that kind of drives the initiative, right? So whatever we can, uh,

727
01:01:00,857 --> 01:01:02,477
take we'll, we'll get it. Right.

728
01:01:02,477 --> 01:01:11,277
yeah yeah and and nico uh when we when we delivered the hash i think the last uh

729
01:01:12,357 --> 01:01:19,037
the last block party it came from three different continents uh or you know africa

730
01:01:19,037 --> 01:01:27,917
south america and the u.s um how powerful is that yep that's right those are the three places we're

731
01:01:27,917 --> 01:01:32,897
trying to get some new miners onboarded now, actually, from the States. Need to find some

732
01:01:32,897 --> 01:01:36,577
Asian miners. So if anybody out there is listening and you know some Asian miners,

733
01:01:36,577 --> 01:01:43,657
we need to bring some of them on board. Europe's a little tougher. We have talked to a few European

734
01:01:43,657 --> 01:01:47,197
miners, but electricity rates in Europe are a little tougher. They're pretty political over

735
01:01:47,197 --> 01:01:52,017
there. Yeah. They're not doing themselves any favors. They're not doing themselves any favors.

736
01:01:52,017 --> 01:02:01,037
But yeah, a lot of mining going on right now that's currently being developed in Africa and in South America.

737
01:02:01,477 --> 01:02:09,217
Obviously, the U.S. after the China mining ban has become the new kind of focal point for mining around the world.

738
01:02:09,397 --> 01:02:15,877
It's become a little centralized in the States is kind of the counter argument there.

739
01:02:15,877 --> 01:02:19,117
so yeah we work with

740
01:02:19,117 --> 01:02:21,497
miners from all over the world

741
01:02:21,497 --> 01:02:23,377
I guess the only

742
01:02:23,377 --> 01:02:24,557
places where we have to be

743
01:02:24,557 --> 01:02:27,317
where we can't take miners because we're

744
01:02:27,317 --> 01:02:28,937
a US registered company is from

745
01:02:28,937 --> 01:02:30,637
OFAC sanctioned countries unfortunately

746
01:02:30,637 --> 01:02:33,097
just because we're not trying to go to jail

747
01:02:33,097 --> 01:02:35,237
but not anything against those

748
01:02:35,237 --> 01:02:37,037
OFAC sanctioned countries unfortunately

749
01:02:37,037 --> 01:02:38,857
it's just the way US laws work out

750
01:02:38,857 --> 01:02:41,257
but everyone else

751
01:02:41,257 --> 01:02:42,957
we can take

752
01:02:42,957 --> 01:02:44,657
we can take miners from

753
01:02:44,657 --> 01:02:54,057
Um, so yeah, that's, uh, that's part of what, you know, the, the mission here, right.

754
01:02:54,057 --> 01:02:58,837
Is connecting people from all around the world, uh, on both sides of the marketplace.

755
01:02:59,457 --> 01:03:01,957
Um, and, and spreading the, the hash.

756
01:03:02,117 --> 01:03:02,337
Yeah.

757
01:03:02,337 --> 01:03:08,357
You know, it's not necessarily good when, you know, the global hash is 60, 70% U S.

758
01:03:08,497 --> 01:03:11,897
Um, you know, if we change our policy, what does that do?

759
01:03:11,897 --> 01:03:25,157
Yeah, and that's kind of one of the original things with Wrigley was the idea of being able to provide some kind of financing for mining companies that want to develop sites, right?

760
01:03:25,817 --> 01:03:35,877
So like I was saying before, you know, these huge pubcos go out and, you know, take out convertible notes or debt and, you know, Wall Street banking type of instruments.

761
01:03:35,877 --> 01:03:45,437
international miners like in Nigeria or myself in Argentina or in Peru or anywhere else in Africa

762
01:03:45,437 --> 01:03:49,757
where we're seeing folks as well, you don't have access to credit facilities. If you're from the

763
01:03:49,757 --> 01:03:54,697
States, you may not know this, but like the rest of the world does not have access to credit in the

764
01:03:54,697 --> 01:04:03,637
same way as you do in the US. And since mining is such a capital intensive business, you have to

765
01:04:03,637 --> 01:04:10,377
wait to pay back your miners before you go in the green, right? And generate some profit. And then

766
01:04:10,377 --> 01:04:14,277
you have to basically take all that money to go kind of expand your operations to build something

767
01:04:14,277 --> 01:04:19,557
new. So if you have cheap power, and you're trying to grow your operations as a small to medium

768
01:04:19,557 --> 01:04:25,197
sized miner in a country that is outside of the US, you basically don't have any tools available

769
01:04:25,197 --> 01:04:30,157
to you. And one of the things that we tried to do with Wrigley was say, hey, we have a whole network

770
01:04:30,157 --> 01:04:35,917
here of people around the world through the Bitcoin network that can fund these types of

771
01:04:35,917 --> 01:04:47,477
projects in exchange for KYC free new Bitcoin, right? And there's a very natural swap there in

772
01:04:47,477 --> 01:04:52,317
time preferences, which is that the miner that's trying to develop this new site has this high time

773
01:04:52,317 --> 01:04:59,477
preference for liquidity. And the person that's sitting on their stack is default low time

774
01:04:59,477 --> 01:05:08,537
preference. So this, the trade is basically saying like, hey, here's capital to go develop your site

775
01:05:08,537 --> 01:05:17,937
and in exchange you guarantee the future cash flow or sat flow or hash rate of that mining site.

776
01:05:20,197 --> 01:05:27,397
And yeah, that's, I mean, I think one of the big, you know, vectors for decentralizing mining

777
01:05:27,397 --> 01:05:35,017
across the globe is allowing for these projects to develop in the first place.

778
01:05:35,097 --> 01:05:38,857
That's the number one blocker for new mining projects is capital.

779
01:05:42,277 --> 01:05:47,157
And talk about the centralization of the chip manufacturing.

780
01:05:47,977 --> 01:05:50,177
I mean, from my understanding, and I don't know enough,

781
01:05:50,177 --> 01:05:57,137
a lot of the mining rigs themselves, the big boys, are all centralized.

782
01:05:57,397 --> 01:05:59,937
on the manufacturing side.

783
01:06:00,437 --> 01:06:01,217
Oh yeah, absolutely.

784
01:06:01,857 --> 01:06:05,797
So there are some very nasty games

785
01:06:05,797 --> 01:06:07,497
played behind the scenes

786
01:06:07,497 --> 01:06:09,317
with the large manufacturers.

787
01:06:10,917 --> 01:06:12,657
So Bitmain is by far

788
01:06:12,657 --> 01:06:15,177
the largest manufacturer in the industry.

789
01:06:15,797 --> 01:06:18,117
And they have basically pushed out

790
01:06:18,117 --> 01:06:21,997
other manufacturers

791
01:06:21,997 --> 01:06:23,937
like Wattsminer from accessing

792
01:06:23,937 --> 01:06:26,917
like TSMC, for example.

793
01:06:26,917 --> 01:06:39,177
So WattsMiner has probably better chip designs than Bitmain, but because they can't make their chips at TSMC, they have to go to Samsung, it means that they can't compete on a level playing field.

794
01:06:40,677 --> 01:06:45,597
That's like one example, right, of like how you see these kind of centralization forces.

795
01:06:45,597 --> 01:06:50,877
not to mention that back in the day like bitmain had basically put a back door into all of their

796
01:06:50,877 --> 01:06:56,597
like machines so that if they wanted to they had kind of either like a kill switch or other ways

797
01:06:56,597 --> 01:07:00,317
in which they could basically hack into the machines that they were selling and they were

798
01:07:00,317 --> 01:07:27,927
over 90 percent of the market right um so yeah it a very kind of dangerous like precedent right to have one company that has also you know previously in um in contentious moments on the network tried to sway uh yeah decision making right yeah yeah uh so i mean that sense

799
01:07:27,927 --> 01:07:36,387
that that that that issue itself um that friction i i think you know i i saw that there was you know

800
01:07:36,387 --> 01:07:39,307
possibly other chips being developed by other people.

801
01:07:39,427 --> 01:07:41,707
I think even Jack Dorsey's block,

802
01:07:42,767 --> 01:07:47,047
I think Intel came in and they got out pretty quick.

803
01:07:47,587 --> 01:07:49,627
But are you seeing any competition?

804
01:07:50,587 --> 01:07:53,247
And I guess, secondly, what does Bidax use?

805
01:07:54,787 --> 01:07:55,347
Yes.

806
01:07:55,487 --> 01:07:59,467
So there are a bunch of new designs, products,

807
01:07:59,587 --> 01:08:01,067
manufacturers coming into the space.

808
01:08:01,867 --> 01:08:04,927
The big one out of the States right now is called Aurodyne.

809
01:08:04,927 --> 01:08:07,347
they're very interesting

810
01:08:07,347 --> 01:08:09,527
seem to be very high quality kind of professionals

811
01:08:09,527 --> 01:08:10,827
ex-intel and google

812
01:08:10,827 --> 01:08:13,627
hardware guys that have made

813
01:08:13,627 --> 01:08:15,227
a really competitive product

814
01:08:15,227 --> 01:08:17,647
and I believe everything

815
01:08:17,647 --> 01:08:19,467
that they do is manufactured here in the states

816
01:08:19,467 --> 01:08:21,647
so

817
01:08:21,647 --> 01:08:23,507
they're definitely a player to

818
01:08:23,507 --> 01:08:24,387
keep an eye out

819
01:08:24,387 --> 01:08:27,047
or keep an eye on

820
01:08:27,047 --> 01:08:29,567
and then you

821
01:08:29,567 --> 01:08:31,187
also have so Blockstream

822
01:08:31,187 --> 01:08:32,527
works with

823
01:08:32,527 --> 01:08:35,047
they bought an Israeli company

824
01:08:35,047 --> 01:08:37,367
that the name is always very strange

825
01:08:37,367 --> 01:08:38,907
to me and I can never remember it exactly

826
01:08:38,907 --> 01:08:40,867
but in any case

827
01:08:40,867 --> 01:08:43,327
I think about exploding pagers

828
01:08:43,327 --> 01:08:45,167
when I think about Israeli

829
01:08:45,167 --> 01:08:46,447
technology

830
01:08:46,447 --> 01:08:49,407
yeah there's definitely

831
01:08:49,407 --> 01:08:51,187
that in any case

832
01:08:51,187 --> 01:08:52,967
these guys are supposed to be very good

833
01:08:52,967 --> 01:08:55,407
literal kill switches

834
01:08:55,407 --> 01:08:55,907
right

835
01:08:55,907 --> 01:08:59,947
but

836
01:08:59,947 --> 01:09:03,047
But that's another manufacturer.

837
01:09:03,987 --> 01:09:08,227
Block does have their own chips that they have put out.

838
01:09:08,587 --> 01:09:12,047
I think that they discontinued that line, though, if I'm not mistaken.

839
01:09:13,147 --> 01:09:14,827
So they weren't going to pursue it.

840
01:09:14,907 --> 01:09:16,207
I may be wrong about that.

841
01:09:17,407 --> 01:09:21,387
Because I see this revolution or rebellion on a few fronts,

842
01:09:21,387 --> 01:09:23,367
and it goes all the way down to the hardware.

843
01:09:24,447 --> 01:09:27,847
You can apply yourself to the alliance.

844
01:09:27,847 --> 01:09:30,067
You can rent hash on Wrigley.

845
01:09:30,407 --> 01:09:32,267
You can participate in the block party.

846
01:09:32,847 --> 01:09:39,807
But I think, you know, and what I would love, you know, I'd love to support the decentralization of mining through different continents.

847
01:09:40,187 --> 01:09:44,707
I'd love to know which hardware I'm buying that's supporting what.

848
01:09:45,327 --> 01:09:47,707
You know, there's a few different ways.

849
01:09:48,027 --> 01:09:51,147
You know, there might be a pure direction to go with this.

850
01:09:51,247 --> 01:09:52,187
And I just don't know.

851
01:09:52,267 --> 01:09:53,747
It's just a gentle pleb, you know.

852
01:09:53,747 --> 01:10:00,027
yeah so just to i mean hash may know better about the chips that go on um

853
01:10:01,107 --> 01:10:09,167
bit axis um so hash what do you know man you're staring at it is it silver your chip

854
01:10:09,167 --> 01:10:17,587
yes it's it's under thermal paste right now i think it did you swap your pace no i have not

855
01:10:17,587 --> 01:10:19,627
done that yet, but I really want to do that,

856
01:10:19,667 --> 01:10:20,347
but I'm too lazy.

857
01:10:21,907 --> 01:10:23,747
I think they come from the

858
01:10:23,747 --> 01:10:25,587
S17s,

859
01:10:26,447 --> 01:10:27,987
if I recall.

860
01:10:27,987 --> 01:10:28,507
Yeah, I think that's right.

861
01:10:29,947 --> 01:10:30,567
But yeah.

862
01:10:32,507 --> 01:10:33,187
So the

863
01:10:33,187 --> 01:10:35,607
big thing there, just to make the point, QW,

864
01:10:36,527 --> 01:10:36,967
the

865
01:10:36,967 --> 01:10:39,667
kind of the kill switch comes in at the control board

866
01:10:39,667 --> 01:10:41,667
level, so even if

867
01:10:41,667 --> 01:10:43,947
you're running an old S17

868
01:10:43,947 --> 01:10:45,707
ASIC, like the chip

869
01:10:45,707 --> 01:10:50,507
itself that that's not going to be backdoored your your issue would be at a kind of a higher

870
01:10:50,507 --> 01:10:58,107
level there in the hardware um so you know you're kind of repurposing like the you know the empire's

871
01:10:58,107 --> 01:11:06,027
old equipment for the for the alliance and have you uh do you see i take it you saw crypto cloaks

872
01:11:06,027 --> 01:11:15,627
made uh made our very own bid x uh frame a stand i did see that yeah it was very cool big shout out

873
01:11:15,627 --> 01:11:17,487
Hash, did you order one yet?

874
01:11:18,047 --> 01:11:18,707
You know what?

875
01:11:18,747 --> 01:11:20,027
I had my finger on the trigger.

876
01:11:20,407 --> 01:11:21,207
I'm going to.

877
01:11:22,107 --> 01:11:23,167
I'm going to.

878
01:11:23,307 --> 01:11:24,847
There's still 15 in stock, everybody.

879
01:11:25,247 --> 01:11:25,727
FYI.

880
01:11:27,547 --> 01:11:34,227
Yeah, and there's a pretty good chance that Wrigley will zap you on Noster if you post a picture of that.

881
01:11:35,767 --> 01:11:38,787
So that brings me to another point, Nico.

882
01:11:39,467 --> 01:11:41,947
What the hell was going on during the block party?

883
01:11:42,067 --> 01:11:43,867
I think everyone was getting mega zapped.

884
01:11:43,867 --> 01:11:58,607
So anybody listening, Zaps or Sats, they're basically bits of Bitcoin that were getting sent for posting memes and doing whatever shit posting essentially on Noster.

885
01:11:59,167 --> 01:12:02,147
But it was like $10, $10, $10.

886
01:12:03,987 --> 01:12:05,607
What was up with that?

887
01:12:06,427 --> 01:12:07,767
That was a Zap-a-thon.

888
01:12:07,767 --> 01:12:17,907
Yeah, I think that's definitely Heather and Evan going to town on people that are supporting the cause.

889
01:12:18,527 --> 01:12:19,767
Is that a company write-off?

890
01:12:21,267 --> 01:12:26,847
You know, I was talking with Evan as well, and he was saying that whenever we do the block parties,

891
01:12:26,947 --> 01:12:33,387
we definitely add some love from our end to make sure that the party gets some extra hash rate as well.

892
01:12:33,387 --> 01:12:39,767
um so yeah i mean i think you know we try and do the best i mean you guys want to hit a block just

893
01:12:39,767 --> 01:12:44,347
as much as us i mean at the end of the day we're all on the same team you know you're not really

894
01:12:44,347 --> 01:12:51,107
a company you're you're you're you're actually a customer to yourself you know yeah that's right

895
01:12:51,107 --> 01:12:57,447
um i mean i think everyone wins here right i mean upendo is not something that we're turning around

896
01:12:57,447 --> 01:13:01,487
and making a lot of money on i think it's definitely a community project that we're

897
01:13:01,487 --> 01:13:06,687
really excited to be a part of and support and to facilitate. And we have a lot of the tools,

898
01:13:06,687 --> 01:13:15,227
right, that enable us to kind of build this out. And yeah, the idea is obviously to try and bring

899
01:13:15,227 --> 01:13:25,127
in as much hash rate as we can to facilitate that flywheel, right? Because that's what it comes down

900
01:13:25,127 --> 01:13:31,747
to is just making sure that we can one generate drum up enough demand uh to get our odds good

901
01:13:31,747 --> 01:13:36,327
enough to get close to you know like what happened last time if we had just been one difficulty

902
01:13:36,327 --> 01:13:41,867
adjustment earlier we would have had a block like hash was saying um don't remind me and then on the

903
01:13:41,867 --> 01:13:49,167
second and yeah and then he's got a poster of that block that he didn't hit on his wall it's like uh

904
01:13:49,167 --> 01:13:51,907
it's like Ray Finkel in,

905
01:13:51,907 --> 01:13:53,047
in Ace Ventura,

906
01:13:53,307 --> 01:13:53,667
you know,

907
01:13:53,787 --> 01:13:54,927
he's the Dan Marino.

908
01:13:55,167 --> 01:13:56,627
That's the Dan Marino block.

909
01:13:56,707 --> 01:13:56,847
Yeah.

910
01:13:56,867 --> 01:14:00,927
I looked and it was 689 billion differential,

911
01:14:00,927 --> 01:14:01,867
uh,

912
01:14:01,867 --> 01:14:02,687
that we missed it by.

913
01:14:02,827 --> 01:14:03,007
So,

914
01:14:03,267 --> 01:14:04,887
which,

915
01:14:05,027 --> 01:14:07,347
which sounds like I have no idea what that means,

916
01:14:07,347 --> 01:14:08,987
but if you look at the one points,

917
01:14:09,127 --> 01:14:09,527
you know,

918
01:14:09,567 --> 01:14:09,687
the,

919
01:14:09,747 --> 01:14:10,427
the one,

920
01:14:10,867 --> 01:14:12,127
the 1.2,

921
01:14:12,267 --> 01:14:12,767
what was it?

922
01:14:13,767 --> 01:14:14,847
1.7.

923
01:14:15,147 --> 01:14:15,387
What,

924
01:14:15,447 --> 01:14:16,907
what was the difficulty that needed?

925
01:14:16,907 --> 01:14:17,967
I think it was 120,

926
01:14:17,967 --> 01:14:25,387
26.9 or somewhere around there. I think CK said 127 rounded up, but it was like,

927
01:14:25,387 --> 01:14:32,087
it was ridiculous. Just going to put it at that. Yeah. Yeah. And I would never even know any of

928
01:14:32,087 --> 01:14:37,487
this until I started getting involved. And I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm all in at this point,

929
01:14:37,487 --> 01:14:45,827
ready to, to keep moving. So those zaps, so those, that, that engagement that Wrigley's been doing on

930
01:14:45,827 --> 01:14:52,327
Noster, when these block parties happen, they're usually on a Saturday. And it seems like if you're

931
01:14:52,327 --> 01:14:58,247
not part of it, you're like, what the hell's going on? Because the energy is so tremendous,

932
01:14:58,247 --> 01:15:07,747
I suppose. And it's not just the mining farms hashing energy. It's the human side of things.

933
01:15:07,747 --> 01:15:16,307
uh everyone's excited a lot of uh a lot of hash flying uh human hash and uh and asic hash but uh

934
01:15:16,307 --> 01:15:24,767
when is the next one or talk about kind of the state of upendo right now or and and what might

935
01:15:24,767 --> 01:15:31,047
be going on in the uh and on the back end or construction side of things yeah um we broke

936
01:15:31,047 --> 01:15:39,887
things last time let's get real yeah we did yeah so we've had to do you know we're doing some

937
01:15:39,887 --> 01:15:45,547
infrastructure overhauling we're trying we did some stress testing last time and we're trying

938
01:15:45,547 --> 01:15:50,747
to make sure that you know we can we can keep everything uh running smoothly for for the next

939
01:15:50,747 --> 01:15:56,767
one um the main thing we're actually kind of from the client side what you guys will see

940
01:15:56,767 --> 01:15:59,927
that we really want to be able to bring back is the auctions.

941
01:16:01,067 --> 01:16:04,467
So I think last time you were only able to do direct sales.

942
01:16:05,667 --> 01:16:09,567
And the reason for that was that the auctions kind of had,

943
01:16:10,247 --> 01:16:12,907
it was difficult for us to manage the auctions at the same time.

944
01:16:14,167 --> 01:16:17,467
So what we've been working on now with one of our engineers, Davar,

945
01:16:19,327 --> 01:16:23,887
is so that you can access auctions without having to create an account.

946
01:16:23,887 --> 01:16:31,207
basically you can place a bid deposit for a thousand sats it's really low it's just to make

947
01:16:31,207 --> 01:16:35,627
it's just to encourage people like a small speed bump to encourage people to actually pay their bid

948
01:16:35,627 --> 01:16:38,847
and so they're not bidding up the price and then don't turn around and like actually you know don't

949
01:16:38,847 --> 01:16:44,967
buy what they bid up so once you've made the bid deposit then you can participate now without

950
01:16:44,967 --> 01:16:51,127
actually having to give your email address in the auctions and the auctions are cool because

951
01:16:51,127 --> 01:16:55,387
it's like what Hash was saying earlier, you kind of tap into the competitive dynamic

952
01:16:55,387 --> 01:17:02,187
and that competitive dynamic ends up having a positive feedback on the actual block party.

953
01:17:02,187 --> 01:17:11,547
Because all the value that is bid over of the actual going hash price for the hash rate that's

954
01:17:11,547 --> 01:17:19,167
being put up for auction actually ends up getting fed back in. So we basically take any excess

955
01:17:19,167 --> 01:17:29,457
you know sats that are bid towards a certain amount of hash rate and use that to buy more hash rate to put back into the block party

956
01:17:30,037 --> 01:17:34,637
And that gets tabulated or accounted for according to the team

957
01:17:34,637 --> 01:17:38,877
that wins that auction, right?

958
01:17:38,997 --> 01:17:43,757
According to whoever the bidder is and what team that bidder belongs to.

959
01:17:44,837 --> 01:17:48,037
And we just found that that's like a really fun dynamic

960
01:17:48,037 --> 01:17:50,657
that's part of the block parties

961
01:17:50,657 --> 01:17:56,577
and a good way to kind of tap into this flywheel process

962
01:17:56,577 --> 01:18:01,197
and driving competition and giving a mechanism

963
01:18:01,197 --> 01:18:04,197
to bring in as much hashrate as possible.

964
01:18:06,077 --> 01:18:07,717
So that's been the main thing.

965
01:18:08,117 --> 01:18:09,997
We're kind of still working on that.

966
01:18:10,157 --> 01:18:11,297
It's, you know, creating,

967
01:18:11,717 --> 01:18:15,037
we've had to remodel a little bit how we manage accounts.

968
01:18:15,437 --> 01:18:16,817
And I think part of that has also been

969
01:18:16,817 --> 01:18:21,117
because we were looking down the line to be able to integrate, you know, things like Nostre signups

970
01:18:21,117 --> 01:18:26,897
and how do we kind of bring the Wrigley experience closer into, into Nostre and into being more

971
01:18:26,897 --> 01:18:35,937
accountless. So it's, you know, Wrigley and Upendo kind of, we treat them separately, but they have

972
01:18:35,937 --> 01:18:40,837
these kind of positive feedback mechanisms with how we develop one platform and the other. And

973
01:18:40,837 --> 01:18:46,417
we're just trying to keep whatever we learn from one and bring it to the other as well.

974
01:18:46,817 --> 01:18:49,517
So that's a little bit what we've been working on.

975
01:18:49,797 --> 01:18:51,697
It's really just bringing auctions back.

976
01:18:52,037 --> 01:18:56,397
We're going to bring in a new team this time around,

977
01:18:56,497 --> 01:18:57,997
which is going to be Team Argentina,

978
01:18:58,177 --> 01:19:00,337
which I'm happy about because I'm over here in Buenos Aires.

979
01:19:02,237 --> 01:19:06,057
And I know the guys over here are really excited as well to participate

980
01:19:06,057 --> 01:19:09,437
because they're also talking about Hash's point on being competitive

981
01:19:09,437 --> 01:19:13,537
and they want to get in on the action.

982
01:19:13,537 --> 01:19:21,337
and what what's your what are you constructing right now hash what are you uh developing a new

983
01:19:21,337 --> 01:19:27,757
strategy for this next uh block party i have no idea right now to be honest i you're just

984
01:19:27,757 --> 01:19:36,737
exactly it's the wild west right now uh and i'm just going with the flow so and how many uh do

985
01:19:36,737 --> 01:19:43,117
you have just one bid axe and you would which kind of your your your strategy uh you direct buy

986
01:19:43,117 --> 01:19:52,537
auction or just uh host a few uh asics at your home yeah so and i misspoke earlier i said uh 2023

987
01:19:52,537 --> 01:20:01,897
but i got into bid axe in uh august of 2024 so and i bought a supra then um but since then i've

988
01:20:01,897 --> 01:20:09,897
been buying gammas i have four total um i have my eye on some of the nano 3s's that we've been

989
01:20:09,897 --> 01:20:23,897
talking about um but my strategy is uh to get a bit axe per month and also with the uh wrigley and

990
01:20:23,897 --> 01:20:34,377
upendo uh direct sales um like right now uh hash rate for the alliance is over a pet hash right now

991
01:20:34,377 --> 01:20:42,257
um and that's from wrigley direct buys uh and yeah that that's kind of my strategy is

992
01:20:42,257 --> 01:20:51,437
off you know off time off season whatever um it's wrigley and then uh when we have an auction

993
01:20:51,437 --> 01:20:56,717
coming up. It's auctions plus direct sales.

994
01:20:58,797 --> 01:21:03,577
Yeah, and just try to get as much as we can before the floodgates open.

995
01:21:06,077 --> 01:21:11,757
And Nico, are you participating? I saw you, I think you were one of the Nicos that was

996
01:21:11,757 --> 01:21:18,057
in the auctions as well. Are you, what's your strategy?

997
01:21:18,057 --> 01:21:22,797
sort of putting fires out in the farm.

998
01:21:23,577 --> 01:21:24,157
Right, right.

999
01:21:24,417 --> 01:21:28,937
I've sent some hashrate over from my mining rigs

1000
01:21:28,937 --> 01:21:30,757
on the one hand.

1001
01:21:31,177 --> 01:21:34,397
And then I've participated on a few auctions.

1002
01:21:35,437 --> 01:21:37,617
But yeah, it's usually kind of manning behind the scenes

1003
01:21:37,617 --> 01:21:39,537
to make sure things stay up and running.

1004
01:21:41,237 --> 01:21:44,397
The one who really makes sure that everything runs smoothly

1005
01:21:44,397 --> 01:21:46,237
has been Evan, the last few block parties.

1006
01:21:46,237 --> 01:21:51,397
but I'll be kind of taking kind of over a little bit on the next one.

1007
01:21:51,397 --> 01:21:58,077
So we, we, we centralized, man, you got to distribute the, the,

1008
01:21:58,077 --> 01:22:02,037
the roles. So, you know, we need the sustainable,

1009
01:22:02,357 --> 01:22:03,637
we need the sustainable Nico.

1010
01:22:05,317 --> 01:22:08,637
That's what we're going for. It's just, it's just been fun. I mean,

1011
01:22:08,637 --> 01:22:12,857
this community is awesome. You know, I would love to move, you know,

1012
01:22:12,857 --> 01:22:24,177
I keep thinking when we hit a block, it's going to spread from Nostra to X to whatever socials, the Reddits, the Bitcoin forums.

1013
01:22:25,597 --> 01:22:27,317
The legend will grow.

1014
01:22:27,717 --> 01:22:36,797
And I just want to take a moment to kind of cherish the community right now because we're all doing this with hopium.

1015
01:22:36,797 --> 01:22:43,537
Once we actually have some proof of concept and we have a block in our belt, things are going to get real.

1016
01:22:44,077 --> 01:22:49,497
And, you know, I'd like to just keep steering the community ship the way we can.

1017
01:22:49,797 --> 01:22:52,297
And the more participation, the better.

1018
01:22:52,837 --> 01:23:02,157
And really, you know, at the core of this, the sustainable factor of this is really the community and the heartbeat of us.

1019
01:23:02,157 --> 01:23:08,417
and how we, you know, you can have a rebellion and have fun while you're doing it.

1020
01:23:08,457 --> 01:23:08,897
Right, Hash?

1021
01:23:09,597 --> 01:23:10,557
Oh, hell yeah.

1022
01:23:12,677 --> 01:23:19,897
As long as the community stays alive, it's not a question of if but when we hit a block.

1023
01:23:19,897 --> 01:23:26,557
And I think once we do hit a block, that'll be the tipping point to where everybody will be like,

1024
01:23:27,037 --> 01:23:29,757
holy shit, this community just hit a block.

1025
01:23:29,937 --> 01:23:31,237
Like, I want to be part of that.

1026
01:23:31,237 --> 01:23:33,517
and keep that momentum building.

1027
01:23:35,677 --> 01:23:36,617
All right.

1028
01:23:37,297 --> 01:23:39,277
Nico, to kind of close this out,

1029
01:23:39,377 --> 01:23:43,737
is there a target date for the next block party?

1030
01:23:44,797 --> 01:23:46,677
And is there a window, a target window,

1031
01:23:46,837 --> 01:23:50,837
mid-July or early in next week, whatever?

1032
01:23:51,817 --> 01:23:54,997
Yeah, so I think we should be finishing up

1033
01:23:54,997 --> 01:23:57,917
the development work that we need this coming week.

1034
01:23:57,917 --> 01:24:00,897
And we want to do a dry run with my developers

1035
01:24:00,897 --> 01:24:03,397
basically to make sure and test everything out

1036
01:24:03,397 --> 01:24:06,357
to see if it doesn't make sure things don't break.

1037
01:24:08,757 --> 01:24:10,357
I want to say tentatively,

1038
01:24:10,977 --> 01:24:13,337
looks like we can probably,

1039
01:24:13,817 --> 01:24:16,797
if we push really hard and we're a little reckless,

1040
01:24:16,957 --> 01:24:19,197
we may be able to kick it off next Saturday.

1041
01:24:19,857 --> 01:24:22,997
It would be safer to do it probably the following week.

1042
01:24:23,597 --> 01:24:26,077
But I think that's the timeframe we're looking at

1043
01:24:26,077 --> 01:24:26,957
between one to two weeks.

1044
01:24:26,957 --> 01:24:28,557
I'm all for getting it right, man.

1045
01:24:28,557 --> 01:24:34,137
in another week. I mean, we have a very low time preference, right? Uh, we, we don't have, uh,

1046
01:24:34,137 --> 01:24:41,877
the mining bills to pay. Uh, so, um, for sure. Yeah. Awesome. Uh, hash, any closing words?

1047
01:24:42,497 --> 01:24:47,297
Uh, put me on the spot. Uh, no, uh, thanks for having me on. It was, it was a pleasure. This is

1048
01:24:47,297 --> 01:24:56,457
my debut on my very first podcast. So thank you for that. Um, I think as a community, as an alliance

1049
01:24:56,457 --> 01:25:04,697
moving forward. Like I said, it's not a matter of if but when we hit a block. And once we do that,

1050
01:25:04,697 --> 01:25:13,037
then the sky's the limit. So and it's great to be a part of this movement. Like I've said before,

1051
01:25:13,677 --> 01:25:21,057
back in the day, when Bitcoin was just getting started, mining difficulty was very low.

1052
01:25:21,057 --> 01:25:28,077
So now it's extremely high, just like the exchange rate with Cuck Bucks.

1053
01:25:28,297 --> 01:25:36,457
But it's nice to be a part of that movement now and seeing it kind of transform back to the community.

1054
01:25:36,917 --> 01:25:38,137
So stay strong.

1055
01:25:39,097 --> 01:25:39,537
Hash on.

1056
01:25:40,997 --> 01:25:41,637
Whoa.

1057
01:25:42,157 --> 01:25:42,917
Stay strong.

1058
01:25:43,037 --> 01:25:43,637
Hash on.

1059
01:25:43,637 --> 01:25:45,497
I'm making it a T-shirt hash.

1060
01:25:46,797 --> 01:25:47,217
Thank you.

1061
01:25:47,217 --> 01:25:51,537
Nico, any closing words from you?

1062
01:25:52,677 --> 01:25:56,397
No, I just wanted to thank both of you for being so important

1063
01:25:56,397 --> 01:25:59,037
and instrumental in building the community here, and I totally agree.

1064
01:25:59,157 --> 01:26:02,977
I think both for Evan and myself, one of the things we've loved the most

1065
01:26:02,977 --> 01:26:07,857
about building Upendo ad and seeing the impact that it's had

1066
01:26:07,857 --> 01:26:14,697
has been the community aspect, and that's really awesome to see.

1067
01:26:14,697 --> 01:26:17,697
so yeah

1068
01:26:17,697 --> 01:26:19,557
the one that we usually use

1069
01:26:19,557 --> 01:26:20,597
which I like to hash is

1070
01:26:20,597 --> 01:26:22,557
stay humble and hash sats

1071
01:26:22,557 --> 01:26:25,057
that's our close out

1072
01:26:25,057 --> 01:26:25,717
love it

1073
01:26:25,717 --> 01:26:30,977
alright well my son just broke down the door

1074
01:26:30,977 --> 01:26:33,337
so I'm going to close this out here

1075
01:26:33,337 --> 01:26:35,317
and all these links

1076
01:26:35,317 --> 01:26:36,417
so whether it's Wrigley

1077
01:26:36,417 --> 01:26:38,017
up into

1078
01:26:38,017 --> 01:26:40,457
the Alliance Telegram

1079
01:26:40,457 --> 01:26:42,357
even Crypto Cloaks

1080
01:26:42,357 --> 01:26:43,817
the Alliance Bidax

1081
01:26:43,817 --> 01:26:45,577
that he did for us.

1082
01:26:46,077 --> 01:26:47,877
I'm going to post it all in the show notes.

1083
01:26:48,377 --> 01:26:51,157
Thank you everyone who's listening live right now

1084
01:26:51,157 --> 01:26:53,417
on zap.stream or across Noster.

1085
01:26:54,057 --> 01:26:55,877
Thanks for everybody that's listening

1086
01:26:55,877 --> 01:26:57,897
via the podcast recording.

1087
01:26:58,497 --> 01:26:59,637
If you are listening,

1088
01:26:59,837 --> 01:27:02,377
please support the Value for Value community.

1089
01:27:02,377 --> 01:27:04,857
Please support the Fountain client.

1090
01:27:05,777 --> 01:27:06,397
And you know what?

1091
01:27:06,437 --> 01:27:08,677
If you like it, we're doing our best here.

1092
01:27:08,757 --> 01:27:10,797
We're trying to put some premium content out.

1093
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So we appreciate you and we'll see you next Friday.