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The signal is here.

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This is Blood Channel Radio.

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Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the lightning-laced airwaves.

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This is episode 152 of Plep Chain Radio, and this is going to be a fun one.

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Ben Justman returns to the show.

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It's been about a year and a half.

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Last time, we were fermenting a revolution.

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I wonder what it'll be this time.

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If you are hearing my voice right now on Spotify or Apple, thank you for listening.

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But also, welcome to the Legacy Feed.

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It's a reliable signal, but it's read-only.

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Over here on Fountain and Noster, the frequency is open.

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This is a value-for-value broadcast.

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There are no corporate scripts and no algorithmic nudges here because the producers of this show, that's you, fuel the engine.

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If you want to move from passive listener to active participant, come join the signal on the V4V side.

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Now, let's set the table for the final word.

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The executive producer chair for next week is currently empty.

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As always, the top booster secures the title and the right to close out the show.

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The rules of the board are simple.

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Ratify or rectify.

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In a few minutes, I'm going to lay out the sermon.

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If the message resonates, boost in to ratify it and add your context to back it up.

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If I miss the mark, boost in to rectify it and set the record straight.

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The board is in session and the top supporter gets the mic.

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And before we get into the sermon, you might have noticed that in the last three or four episodes, including this one,

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I didn't state the date and time of recording of the episode at the very top as I usually do.

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That is because these last few episodes were recorded in early February ahead of some travel I have in the middle of the month.

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So by the time you hear this recording, the topic I'm about to talk about might well be dead and buried, and that would be a good thing.

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But as I'm recording this, it is not, and it's very real and very raw.

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There's been some very disappointing news that's come out in the last few days about respected Bitcoiners being possibly associated with Epstein or at least in some form of contact with him.

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While being part of an email thread isn't conclusive evidence of wrongdoing by any means, the stench of association is unescapable.

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And sadly, by extension, it jumps onto Bitcoin itself, at least in the public eye.

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Of course, this news is being fully capitalized on by bad actors and enemies of Bitcoin in an attempt to thrust the knife in.

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So today's sermon addresses that, the distinction between Bitcoin and Bitcoiners.

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Here's the sermon, the compromised substrate.

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The idols are bleeding.

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We watch the pedestals crack and the statues topple.

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names carrying weight yesterday and now radiate a toxic half-life the scavengers feast they brand

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the entire network with the sins of a few men eager to paint the protocol with the same brush

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used to mark the predators we forgot the foundational axiom biology is a compromised

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substrate humans act as leaking vessels of ego and vice prone to rot from the inside out

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We project our hope onto these fragile containers, expecting saints.

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We inevitably find sinners.

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Every hero in this space eventually disappoints given a long enough timeline.

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Consider the absolute moral vacuum of our other tools.

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The fiber optic cable transmits a death threat with the exact fidelity of a love letter.

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The highway bears the weight of the ambulance and the getaway car without distinction

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The cellular tower routes the command to fire a missile alongside the call for a ceasefire

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To blame the asphalt for the crash is the logic of a child

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We accept this duality in our steel and our silicon

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The combustion engine propels the tank across the border just as effectively as it drives the school bus

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The piston fires regardless of the driver's intent.

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Gravity pulls the assassin's bullet to earth with the same equation it uses to hold the oceans in place.

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Bitcoin operates in this same vacuum.

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It validates a transaction from a saint and a monster with the exact same cryptographic certainty.

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The ledger acts as a cold, distinct mirror reflecting only truth.

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Char 256 ignores your emails. It ignores your island visits. It cares only about the work.

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Let the critics howl. Let them try to chain the invention to the operator's flaws.

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They attack the passengers because the train itself is unstoppable. The code remains open.

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The code remains auditable. The code remains sovereign. We build this system specifically

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to escape the fallibility of kings.

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We should not recoil when our own captains prove human.

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Kill your idols. Burn the posters.

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The signal remains pure even when the broadcaster rots.

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And with that, it's time to bring on our guest, Ben Justman.

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Welcome back to Plep Chain Radio.

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Great to be here.

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Yeah, good to have you back, Ben.

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How are you doing, my friend?

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At the time of recording, this isn't the happiest time.

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Number go down.

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Epstein stench is all over.

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Well, as I said, it's being capitalized on by people anyway to taint Bitcoin.

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How are you doing?

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Yeah, honestly, seeing that is kind of refreshing.

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I think it revitalizes Bitcoiners in a lot of ways that we've always been pariahs or crazy or looked at negatively from the government's eyes.

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And I think there was a shift with the Trump election and, you know, hope for a strategic Bitcoin reserve and, you know, nation state adoption or corporate adoption.

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and this 50 drawdown and what i think is a bunch of bot accounts um or like orchestrated by

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someone um to attack bitcoin and in the social sense calling it pedo coin connecting it to epstein

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um i think it's it's nice like rallying of like oh right they're still attacking us

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we're still the you know they they still want bitcoin they still want to keep bitcoin down

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so they can buy it or they can destroy it and it's us bitcoiners that see the signal

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and are not worried by 50 dips i mean it it hits you to a degree but um i think

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you know when bitcoin goes up the the social media rallying cries is the total opposite of

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what you should do financially if you do need to offload or change your risk profile.

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And at the bottom, Bitcoiners are absolutely the signal and buying the dip, staying strong,

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knowing why they're here.

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And that's been awesome to see over the last few days.

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You know, that's a very refreshing perspective, Ben, because one of the interesting things

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that's happened to Bitcoin, especially in the US, since the Trump election is somehow,

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it went from being this punk rock dissident cultural thing to getting full mainstream

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acceptance almost, right? Or at least that's what it seemed like. The government loved Bitcoin,

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for heaven's sake, right? When was the last time that happened? And then you had this wave after

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wave of institutional adoption.

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So the last year, year and a half,

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has been a really odd place to be in

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because a lot of Bitcoiners,

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I would include myself in this,

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who sort of viewed myself on the dissident side

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of all of this, the cypherpunk side in some sense,

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found ourselves in a really strange spot

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where, wait, people want to work with us?

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Like, what's going on?

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So in some sense, I think it is,

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as you said refreshing um to see that that's not entirely the case there are enemies of bitcoin out

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there and perhaps fairly powerful ones yeah it's i kind of got caught in the trap as as well um

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thinking things were different now and i i think they are to some degree but they're not as different

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as we were thinking they were going to be,

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or things aren't changing as fast as we hoped.

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And I think there's times where I got caught up in politics over the last year,

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and I'd kind of come back with Bitcoin dip

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and just how things got so crazy in the United States over the last few months.

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um it's been clarifying for me as far as like look i agree with some of the things that are

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going on politically i disagree with a lot of the you know a lot of the things that are going on

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politically um and fundamentally i i whether i agree like specifically with some trump policies

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and and i think it's generally better for the direction of my country um than the alternative

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And especially from a Bitcoin sense, overtly, at least.

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It's kind of this this sea change of Bitcoin price and like just kind of clarity that a 50 percent drawdown provides is very refreshing as to why I do it and how it's on me to be safe to save myself.

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And the world's not going to get fixed.

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um the politicians are my enemies and um at you know at at best maybe they changed my life a little

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bit but it's really it's really up to me in so many senses and um you kind of lose that a little

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bit when prices go on your way and everything's okay because the price is up um but yeah the veil

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definitely comes off after a 50% crash. And, um, I don't know, it's like, while, you know,

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you wish you like, I didn't accomplish my financial goals this cycle, um, because I was waiting for

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the next leg up to, to sell a little bit, to get out of some debts. Um, and now it's this refresh

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and like, dang, do I got to wait another four years to reach those goals or get more creative?

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But it just kind of resettles in as to, like I said before, the value of this mission, the long term nature of it.

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And I don't know.

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I guess it's humbling and not in a horrible way.

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And that's nice.

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I like what you're saying there, Ben, because when the price is working in your favor.

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And this is a trap a lot of Bitcoiners, including myself, by the way, fall into, which is at some level, the thinking becomes, well, I'm waiting for Satoshi in some sense, right?

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To set me free.

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And what I mean by that is, oh, Bitcoin's just going to do magical things and I'm just going to ride.

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And I think at times like this, the realization is, oh, there is no one coming to save me.

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I'm the only one who can save myself.

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So it reinforces the need to reclaim your agency and not wait for really a neutral technology, a neutral money to take you somewhere.

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You've got to do it yourself.

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But I do find myself, Ben, I don't know if you're experiencing this in any way.

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but this is a little different for me personally

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because one of the things I did

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seven or eight months back was

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and this is a big risk I took

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because the price is nowhere near

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a place where even at 110k

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or whatever it was back then

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to justify this move

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but I quit my Fiat job because I just had enough of it had enough of pouring my time and attention into something so soulless as fiat work And I plunged headfirst into Bitcoin and Nostra

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and I've been living off that.

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And with the assumption that, look,

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yeah, maybe it's not going to go to 200K this cycle.

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It might not, but at least it's going to stay above 90 at least, right?

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And obviously that hasn't played out

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at the time of recording anyway, we're just, we're hovering in the 60, 70k range. Maybe when folks

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are listening to this recording, it'll be a minor blip and they can laugh it off. But it doesn't feel

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that way right now. It's that really strange sense of angst that creeps in saying, oh crap,

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I'm kind of, what's happening? My purchasing power has just gone down by half and I've

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nowhere to turn do i go back to fiat like what do i do yeah man i i relate with that

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like really strongly because you know i i was selling to fiat customers at farmers markets

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and ski towns around me um and last year i believe last year was the first year that i

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went full-on bitcoiners um like i'm not you know fiat people and you can pay in fiat but like fiat

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people. I'm just like, you're not my customers. If you want to buy my wine, please. But like,

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I'm not seeking you out. And I, you know, I expected more of a bull run as many other people

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did. And I expected that to increase my sales like crazy. And the boringness was, is almost

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the worst thing that can happen. We'll, we'll see on that maybe a caveat there. But when you get

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bored with price and i'm selling over social media the you know the engagement is lower um people are

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waiting for that next price run to buy something um as i was you know you know i totally relate with

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everyone in that way um when like looking from the outside in on my product um

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and it it didn't pay off in the way that i kind of totally wanted and then now i who knows what

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this bear market looks like 50 down is a bear market whether it looks the exact same as time

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wise as um the previous ones who knows and you know it's all an adventure but when price drops

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50 it's so much different than where i was in last bear market because last bear market i was

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i still had a i'd pick up a restaurant job in the winters um and would sell wine all summer

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And so I wasn't even fully all in on on wine necessarily.

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I was just getting going, was just getting going on my Bitcoin stack.

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And, you know, I would sell like maybe two.

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I was psyched when I sold two thousand dollars a month of wine online from Bitcoiners.

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So now that that's my entire income stream like that no longer cuts it.

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and if i'm gonna try and convince bitcoiners to buy my wine when the bitcoin price is 50 down

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i better step up my fucking game and it's kind of been that kick in the ass of like like you're

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saying i get caught in the the moments of like oh well you know whatever like in a in a month

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bitcoin will be 150 200k i'll you know i'll be able to have a little bit more money and um

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buy those things I was saving up for waiting for the right price and it never came.

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And now so now I'm like, oh, OK, cool.

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So we're down that much.

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And it's not I can't live in this fantasy world of the price is going to go crazy in

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the next month and I'm going to be able to get all these things that I was planning on

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that I saved up for without selling Bitcoin for way lower.

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And so the onus really does come back on you in moments like these.

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and yeah when the water recedes you see the mistakes you made in the euphoria of the bull

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market even though we tell ourselves like yeah 100k wasn't you know it wasn't euphoria man um

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but we're up 700 from the bottom um i mean it's like yeah sure compared to other bull markets

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whatever i wasn't around for other bull markets to really you know i started buying at the top of

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the 21 so don't really have that to compare to and you know you're up and you kind of just get

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like you said oh it won't go below 90 i was like yeah we'll go up to like 150 200 trump will print

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a bunch of money for the election and we won't ever go below 100 again because look at all this

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time we've had consolidating here um well nope honey baja dgaf man that's that's what it is

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Yeah.

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So how's the wine business going?

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I know last time you were here, we were talking.

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I think it was fairly established even back then.

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You were making some varietals.

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I don't think you were growing all the grapes.

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You were getting some from elsewhere, and you were fermenting them at your winery.

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What's the latest?

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what is the 2025-2026 crop looking like?

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Well, it's really too early to say as far as production-wise.

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February here is still very much, I guess, tail end of winter.

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We never got – what really is dangerous as far as the next year's crop is –

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well, I guess last year we found this first time I've seen it is there wasn't enough snow.

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And so I guess certain varietals, everyone kind of lost a third to a half of their vineyard.

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Like, you know, it comes back from the ground and you retrain it.

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Not like you lost the entire vine, but you lose that year's production, which is a pretty major hit.

214
00:20:04,116 --> 00:20:07,116
And we think that that happened because of lack of moisture.

215
00:20:07,476 --> 00:20:09,876
And this winter has also been extremely dry.

216
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So I do expect to lose some more vines because of that.

217
00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:19,616
But the main thing I worry about is really hard freezes in the winter.

218
00:20:20,496 --> 00:20:26,336
In American degrees, getting down to like negative 10 happens every few years.

219
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And you lose a lot of the vines above ground.

220
00:20:30,216 --> 00:20:32,156
They should come back, but you lose a year of production.

221
00:20:33,516 --> 00:20:35,996
And that hasn't happened.

222
00:20:36,116 --> 00:20:36,936
So that's great.

223
00:20:36,936 --> 00:20:42,936
um so basically i have no idea how much how much wine i'm gonna get from my vineyard next year but

224
00:20:42,936 --> 00:20:51,076
my plan is to be 100 from grapes from my vineyard next year um not to say i'm gonna do that every

225
00:20:51,076 --> 00:20:57,536
year um i my best product is my estate pinot noir and that's always just gonna be the case we have a

226
00:20:57,536 --> 00:21:06,276
great vineyard um and i have my hands on it you know can really make it mine um but my cellar's

227
00:21:06,276 --> 00:21:10,916
full. I, when I was starting the business over the first five years, six years, whatever,

228
00:21:11,516 --> 00:21:18,116
um, I just made as much wine as I could buy, um, realistically and produce. And so I just kept

229
00:21:18,116 --> 00:21:22,336
making more every year, not knowing how big the vineyard was going to be, not knowing I would take

230
00:21:22,336 --> 00:21:29,496
this Bitcoin direction. And like, I thought I would never sell wine online. So, um, it's just

231
00:21:29,496 --> 00:21:36,136
kind of always been a flux go where, um, go where things lead me, go where it makes sense. And I

232
00:21:36,136 --> 00:21:40,196
just produced more wine that i could sell which was always the plan i knew i would get to that

233
00:21:40,196 --> 00:21:45,716
point and i did that just because it's hard to it's hard to scale up it takes two years to produce

234
00:21:45,716 --> 00:21:53,176
um and it's really easy to scale back as in this year i can just not buy any grapes and i was kind

235
00:21:53,176 --> 00:21:57,256
of torn i was like well if we're going to be in this raging bull market don't don't i want to

236
00:21:57,256 --> 00:22:05,856
spend the money and buy the grapes this year um so i guess now that we're down and not gonna i

237
00:22:05,856 --> 00:22:09,456
I mean, I don't know if we go to 200K in 2026, I would be very impressed.

238
00:22:11,556 --> 00:22:20,996
But it makes sense to especially now to not overproduce this year because I don't have this crazy influx of money from Bitcoin.

239
00:22:21,656 --> 00:22:23,216
So, yeah, I don't know. Things are good.

240
00:22:23,216 --> 00:22:37,016
Um, sales have been solid and I'm kind of just really, this whole process is figuring out how to market, run a business and sell wine and, um, you know, be a valuable member of the Bitcoin community in that way.

241
00:22:38,636 --> 00:22:41,756
We have a couple of comments in the live chat, Ben.

242
00:22:42,476 --> 00:22:46,796
Bray says the estate Pinot Noir is outstanding.

243
00:22:47,396 --> 00:22:53,056
And then someone called G says his rose is excellent as well.

244
00:22:53,216 --> 00:22:56,516
hashtag handsome Ben needs to bring it back.

245
00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:00,216
I actually happen to have, funnily enough, Ben,

246
00:23:00,336 --> 00:23:01,996
I have the receipt.

247
00:23:02,676 --> 00:23:06,216
I actually was able to dig it up from when I got it,

248
00:23:06,676 --> 00:23:10,576
when I last purchased, which is unfortunately a while back.

249
00:23:10,576 --> 00:23:11,536
It's over a year ago.

250
00:23:12,316 --> 00:23:18,096
And I got the 2021 Tempranillo and the 2021 Carbonet Franc.

251
00:23:18,376 --> 00:23:20,576
I did not try the estate Pinot.

252
00:23:20,576 --> 00:23:25,236
and with unfortunately with the price being where it is i don't know if i when i'm going to try it

253
00:23:25,236 --> 00:23:35,096
next but i do want to understandable uh g is a a good friend of mine from the real world who's on

254
00:23:35,096 --> 00:23:41,936
nostr um we met before bitcoin and i uh i give him about the last 10 bottles of my rosé for his

255
00:23:41,936 --> 00:23:47,156
wedding so um he's always pushing me to bring it back but we'll see i have a new vineyard of

256
00:23:47,156 --> 00:23:48,196
Pinot Noir coming up.

257
00:23:49,036 --> 00:23:52,176
We had some frustrations getting it going with some bad weather.

258
00:23:52,956 --> 00:23:54,476
So it's taken a long time.

259
00:23:54,576 --> 00:23:55,696
We planted it in 2020.

260
00:23:56,656 --> 00:24:05,016
And I think that the move for it, once it really starts getting into production, is to make a rosé out of it for the first few years.

261
00:24:05,016 --> 00:24:12,416
So that'll be a fun adventure, getting back into rosé and making it with Pinot Noir this time.

262
00:24:13,316 --> 00:24:16,496
So exciting because, I mean, Pinot's awesome.

263
00:24:16,496 --> 00:24:23,116
I love red wine, but it is nice to kick back a tasty rosé in the middle of summer, nice and cold.

264
00:24:24,856 --> 00:24:25,836
I don't know, man.

265
00:24:26,096 --> 00:24:27,796
I'm a red wine maximalist.

266
00:24:29,156 --> 00:24:33,596
It can be 100 degrees Fahrenheit outside and I will still have a red wine.

267
00:24:33,936 --> 00:24:34,316
Hey, man.

268
00:24:34,496 --> 00:24:36,356
Well, I have the wine for you then.

269
00:24:37,976 --> 00:24:39,236
Is that the estate Pinot?

270
00:24:39,636 --> 00:24:40,556
Well, yeah.

271
00:24:40,716 --> 00:24:45,416
I mean, it's a lighter red, so it's very much approachable in the summer.

272
00:24:46,496 --> 00:24:50,296
I don't know, I guess, I mean, cellar temp would be really nice that time.

273
00:24:50,456 --> 00:24:54,876
But just to say, like, pretty much my whole cellar is red wine was my comment.

274
00:24:57,296 --> 00:25:05,136
So when the Tempranillo and the Cabernet Franc, those were not a state, right?

275
00:25:05,216 --> 00:25:06,896
Those you were getting the grapes from elsewhere?

276
00:25:07,416 --> 00:25:07,656
Yes.

277
00:25:07,656 --> 00:25:08,196
If I'm not wrong.

278
00:25:08,476 --> 00:25:08,696
Yeah.

279
00:25:08,756 --> 00:25:10,316
So I only grow Pinot Noir.

280
00:25:11,796 --> 00:25:14,316
And I started my first vintage was 2019.

281
00:25:14,316 --> 00:25:24,416
and so I made 2019, made 2020, and then I started selling wine in 2021. But in the fall of 2020,

282
00:25:24,416 --> 00:25:32,456
there was this frost that hit. The first breeze of the year dropped like 13 American degrees from

283
00:25:32,456 --> 00:25:39,416
70 the week before, and it killed off all the grapes in Colorado above ground. So

284
00:25:39,416 --> 00:25:44,676
So I had been getting grapes from a nearby place in Colorado.

285
00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:51,136
But that year, that 2021 that you had with the Cap Franc and Tempranillo, I had to go out to California because there was nothing in Colorado.

286
00:25:52,496 --> 00:25:55,716
But outside of that, I've been very focused on.

287
00:25:56,456 --> 00:25:58,336
Actually, I only have Colorado wine.

288
00:25:58,736 --> 00:26:00,796
So it was that one blip year.

289
00:26:00,796 --> 00:26:02,596
And then I've gotten back to it.

290
00:26:02,596 --> 00:26:05,096
And, you know, I'm much more focused.

291
00:26:05,096 --> 00:26:16,016
I want to make a name on my vineyard, my estate Pinot, but ultimately people have different tastes and there's certain years where I don't have much Pinot that produces because of the variation.

292
00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:19,796
So I need to buy just to have both variety and volume.

293
00:26:21,236 --> 00:26:30,536
And I have less control over it, but I still get great grapes and they're local, so they're not shipped halfway across the country.

294
00:26:30,536 --> 00:26:35,256
So I get them the day they're picked and start making wine with them.

295
00:26:35,256 --> 00:26:41,596
So less control, less touch with them as far as like I'm not with the vines all year.

296
00:26:43,376 --> 00:26:49,596
But ultimately, I do get awesome grapes from from other growers in Colorado, about an hour away from me.

297
00:26:49,916 --> 00:26:53,536
And they're in a place where you can grow different varieties.

298
00:26:53,536 --> 00:26:56,216
It's not far from me, but it's a completely different climate.

299
00:26:56,556 --> 00:27:00,256
It's about 2000 feet lower, much more deserty, so much warmer.

300
00:27:00,536 --> 00:27:04,196
And Pinot Noir, it doesn't grow there.

301
00:27:04,296 --> 00:27:06,856
It's too hot for it, but a lot of other reds do.

302
00:27:06,996 --> 00:27:10,376
So it allows me to have variety while really focusing on what I do great here.

303
00:27:12,236 --> 00:27:29,196
So is there something about the Terroir in where you are in Colorado, where it's more amenable to a gentler, a milder grape like Pinot Noir, as opposed to maybe the Cabernet Sauvignon or a Sangiovese or something like that?

304
00:27:29,196 --> 00:27:35,176
it's interesting because you think that pinot because it is delicate because it is hard to grow

305
00:27:35,176 --> 00:27:40,276
and hard to make wine out of um it wouldn't do well here because it is harsh i'm in the highest

306
00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:57,672
wine region in north america and you know we have relatively short growing season and cold winters for a farming climate But something about it it just does insanely well here We weren the first to

307
00:27:57,672 --> 00:28:05,072
plant it, but since we planted it, there's been a lot more plantings of Pinot Noir since it's been

308
00:28:05,072 --> 00:28:12,172
so successful um it loves it it seems to love the hot days and cool nights that you get at altitude

309
00:28:12,172 --> 00:28:19,392
so um just changes the ripening pattern and slows down ripening at the end which i think

310
00:28:19,392 --> 00:28:26,452
is kind of the magic sauce where if you know if you're down south or just in a different

311
00:28:26,452 --> 00:28:31,432
environment you might pick in august but we pick in october and in august it's just so hot that

312
00:28:31,432 --> 00:28:35,952
the grapes don't their grapes just are kind of constantly ripening as opposed to

313
00:28:36,472 --> 00:28:40,032
ripening during the day and then calming down at night and then ripening during the day

314
00:28:40,032 --> 00:28:46,212
so i think that that brings out a little bit more of a gentle tone where if you're gonna grow pinot

315
00:28:46,212 --> 00:28:51,272
noir in a very warm climate if it survives well there which it doesn't elsewhere in colorado

316
00:28:51,272 --> 00:28:58,452
you're just gonna get a much more robust pinot which in my opinion and i'm absolutely biased

317
00:28:58,452 --> 00:29:00,972
doesn't really fit the grape.

318
00:29:01,472 --> 00:29:06,532
I've had a lot of Pinots in my life that are like,

319
00:29:06,632 --> 00:29:08,732
dude, you're making this for a Capsaub drinker.

320
00:29:09,072 --> 00:29:10,792
That person should just drink a Capsaub.

321
00:29:10,872 --> 00:29:12,132
This is over-extracted.

322
00:29:12,232 --> 00:29:12,992
It's overdone.

323
00:29:13,072 --> 00:29:13,472
It's big.

324
00:29:13,632 --> 00:29:16,072
This is a delicate grape that should be treated like that.

325
00:29:17,212 --> 00:29:21,872
And I get it because that's the palate of a lot of wine drinkers.

326
00:29:21,872 --> 00:29:24,212
They want something robust, especially Americans.

327
00:29:24,792 --> 00:29:26,032
They want something robust.

328
00:29:26,032 --> 00:29:30,952
I think men typically like, you know, they want something powerful.

329
00:29:31,112 --> 00:29:32,712
They want to feel manly when they drink.

330
00:29:33,372 --> 00:29:38,712
You know, I love whiskey as well, but especially like whiskey drinkers are that way.

331
00:29:39,832 --> 00:29:45,192
And I think the beauty of I mean, the beauty of my Pinot is that it is delicate.

332
00:29:45,192 --> 00:29:45,852
It's complex.

333
00:29:46,092 --> 00:29:49,272
There's a lot of stuff going on, but it is it's light.

334
00:29:49,452 --> 00:29:52,352
It's not like it's got the complexity, but it's light.

335
00:29:52,632 --> 00:29:53,972
It's kind of the beauty of it.

336
00:29:53,972 --> 00:30:00,632
but i guess to say more about the toir is the altitude is the main thing but um i'm the only

337
00:30:00,632 --> 00:30:06,032
one here to differentiate myself within my tiny valley is i'm the only one growing it on river

338
00:30:06,032 --> 00:30:11,632
bottom on the river bottom so um i'm in alluvial soils which do create a little bit of a lighter

339
00:30:11,632 --> 00:30:18,492
wine and also allows me to do a lot less irrigation because when you're elevated up on

340
00:30:18,492 --> 00:30:25,652
the mesas there's not as much groundwater and not enough to for the vines to survive so they're

341
00:30:25,652 --> 00:30:32,492
constantly adding water input to the surface um if you do a drip irrigation it really concentrates

342
00:30:32,492 --> 00:30:36,272
the roots if you do flood it it you know it raises the groundwater a little bit more than

343
00:30:36,272 --> 00:30:42,072
concentrating the roots but it still brings a lot of the roots to the surface and what that does

344
00:30:42,072 --> 00:30:47,972
is it's going to deplete the soil at the surface, which in the short term, absolutely.

345
00:30:48,332 --> 00:30:49,972
Like, you know, there's a ton of nutrients there.

346
00:30:50,052 --> 00:30:50,712
It's not a huge issue.

347
00:30:50,712 --> 00:30:55,612
But over the course of a vineyard's lifetime, which you hope to be, you know, 40 to 100 years,

348
00:30:56,072 --> 00:30:59,972
it's that soil is going to degrade and you're just going to have to continue adding inputs.

349
00:31:00,572 --> 00:31:08,712
And, you know, you lose the connection to the full on land, what your style of soil is a little bit more

350
00:31:08,712 --> 00:31:11,532
because your soil is just going to become your inputs eventually.

351
00:31:12,072 --> 00:31:20,772
Whereas I can kind of live in this world where I have enough water, I irrigate if I need to, maybe once or twice a year.

352
00:31:22,292 --> 00:31:34,712
And the roots are then also forced to drop down, searching for water and kind of mixing in, using so much of the soil underground.

353
00:31:34,712 --> 00:31:41,072
um and you know i'll i'll add chicken manure to the roots and as a little bit of fertilizer and

354
00:31:41,072 --> 00:31:48,772
um i'm gonna add all the grape skins and seeds back to the vineyard this year um to try and keep

355
00:31:48,772 --> 00:31:54,332
you know as much nutrients as possible there because everything you pull out you need to put

356
00:31:54,332 --> 00:32:01,412
back in um to a degree less so when it's when you're taking up more of the soil letting grass

357
00:32:01,412 --> 00:32:08,292
grow between the rows and and letting everything kind of decompose back into itself but um still

358
00:32:08,292 --> 00:32:16,192
the the idea is that like if you're constantly taking out grapes skin seeds everything putting

359
00:32:16,192 --> 00:32:20,772
it back in is just replacing that nutrients that you took out so you're removing less

360
00:32:20,772 --> 00:32:23,152
and keeping that system a lot more stable

361
00:32:23,152 --> 00:32:32,272
so you know i ben i use the term terroir uh and you used it as well and i just realized not everyone

362
00:32:32,272 --> 00:32:37,512
listening is going to be familiar with it and in my mind terroir is this sort of incredibly

363
00:32:37,512 --> 00:32:44,472
nebulous concept it's almost a dark art in some sense of it's a combination of soil alkalinity

364
00:32:44,472 --> 00:32:49,692
the bacterial composition the water whether you know whether you're growing on the north side of

365
00:32:49,692 --> 00:32:56,292
mountain face, south side, the air. I mean, it's everything. That's how I think about it.

366
00:32:56,292 --> 00:33:01,332
In my mind, there is no fixed definition because it's just a combination of all of these

367
00:33:01,332 --> 00:33:07,912
environmental factors that give the grape its complexity. But if you had to describe the concept

368
00:33:07,912 --> 00:33:11,852
of terroir to a layperson, how would you go about it?

369
00:33:12,312 --> 00:33:16,392
I think you're right that it's extremely nebulous and there's not a great definition

370
00:33:16,392 --> 00:33:31,772
And there's not a really a great way to totally experience it, because I think in addition to like Tawar is is typically referred to as refers to the climate generally.

371
00:33:31,772 --> 00:33:45,392
But in each growing season, the different weather that is exposed to the soil, like you said, the slope of the of the earth, how much water, how much nutrients, like all this other stuff, like every basically every environmental factor.

372
00:33:45,392 --> 00:33:50,912
But I've also heard it used, I think it can also be used to include the winemaker.

373
00:33:51,532 --> 00:33:59,152
And I know it's typically more meant for the climate and the soil and all the environmental stuff.

374
00:33:59,252 --> 00:34:02,912
But I've also heard it used for all the winemaking decisions as well.

375
00:34:03,172 --> 00:34:04,532
And so the only way to really...

376
00:34:04,532 --> 00:34:05,352
Let's do it, man.

377
00:34:05,572 --> 00:34:07,732
The emotional state of the winemaker.

378
00:34:07,912 --> 00:34:08,432
Why not?

379
00:34:08,852 --> 00:34:10,332
Well, the only way to...

380
00:34:10,332 --> 00:34:13,492
What I was going for is really just the only way to experience it.

381
00:34:13,492 --> 00:34:18,832
would be like to have a winemaker make the exact same decisions on two different plots of land

382
00:34:18,832 --> 00:34:29,292
that have slight differences and i don't know it's it that's it almost gets to the point where

383
00:34:29,292 --> 00:34:34,032
i'm like okay cool it's almost like a worthless term like we kind of get what we're saying but

384
00:34:34,032 --> 00:34:39,352
like it's a worthless term because it's it's all covered up it's all it's so complex that it doesn't

385
00:34:39,352 --> 00:34:41,552
It's like saying everything without saying anything.

386
00:34:42,392 --> 00:34:44,792
And there's times where, I don't know, it's worthwhile.

387
00:34:44,792 --> 00:34:58,572
Like I did a Burgundy tasting and I tasted grapes that were grown and made by, grown by the same people, made by the same winemaker from vineyards that were a football field away with that had different soils.

388
00:34:59,032 --> 00:35:00,612
And you could, it was a massive difference.

389
00:35:01,412 --> 00:35:08,732
And so, I mean, that's kind of like there's specific vineyards that are known for crazy flavor and everything.

390
00:35:08,732 --> 00:35:33,872
And there's little times you can experience it. But like, it's I think it's the more you dive into towar like I'm doing now, the more you think about it, the less meaningful it becomes. And if you kind of just think about it generally is like, OK, well, generally grapes grown in this climate have these attributes or generally grapes grown in the soil have these attributes.

391
00:35:33,872 --> 00:35:39,932
but and you can kind of look for those things but then you realize that it's all like the you know

392
00:35:39,932 --> 00:35:44,312
the systems the weather everything is is infinitely complex and there's no really

393
00:35:44,312 --> 00:35:50,392
totally understanding everything that went along in that um that it can kind of if you're really

394
00:35:50,392 --> 00:35:55,252
into wine it's this sweet rabbit hole to go down that you know wine is always different year to year

395
00:35:55,252 --> 00:36:01,592
uh both in the bottle and like in the vintage so aging versus production as well year to year

396
00:36:01,592 --> 00:36:06,252
versus waiting an hour for it to open up or the next day to open up.

397
00:36:06,312 --> 00:36:10,932
It's this constantly evolving thing that the more I get into it, the more I realize like,

398
00:36:11,412 --> 00:36:16,372
oh, I see why people go down this wine rabbit hole, just like Bitcoiners go down this wine

399
00:36:16,372 --> 00:36:20,412
rabbit hole or their own rabbit hole, because there's constantly more and more and more to

400
00:36:20,412 --> 00:36:24,912
learn and experience and this new wine to try in this new area made by this new producer.

401
00:36:25,472 --> 00:36:26,532
Like it's never ending.

402
00:36:26,532 --> 00:36:32,212
and that's what's exciting about when you find a rabbit hole when there's no end you just keep

403
00:36:32,212 --> 00:36:40,152
going and um it's awesome and if you are really sensory driven if you're really driven by taste

404
00:36:40,152 --> 00:36:48,372
and smell that those are the people that really get into it and for most everyone else it's it's

405
00:36:48,372 --> 00:36:53,232
just like the you know bitcoiners we all get into the like oh bitcoin's gonna change the world in

406
00:36:53,232 --> 00:36:56,832
this way and this way and this way oh and you can do this and this and this with it and it's amazing

407
00:36:56,832 --> 00:37:02,172
and it's and other people are just like dude does number go up um and to those people we just say

408
00:37:02,172 --> 00:37:07,272
stay humble stack sats like just you know just slowly buy and i mean realistically that's great

409
00:37:07,272 --> 00:37:12,592
advice for everyone else as well um whereas with wine it's like it's overwhelming because it's

410
00:37:12,592 --> 00:37:16,912
it's constant you know there's all these different things to try there's all these different words to

411
00:37:16,912 --> 00:37:22,672
say about what things taste like and why uh but ultimately it just as just like kind of in bitcoin

412
00:37:22,672 --> 00:37:25,892
and it comes down to the simple thing of does it taste good?

413
00:37:26,332 --> 00:37:27,052
Do you like it?

414
00:37:27,412 --> 00:37:32,132
And then we can kind of look into maybe why that is if you want to explore it more

415
00:37:32,132 --> 00:37:34,132
and you can find other wines that are similar to it.

416
00:37:35,372 --> 00:37:35,492
Yeah.

417
00:37:35,692 --> 00:37:39,792
This reminds me of what you're saying, Ben.

418
00:37:40,612 --> 00:37:42,852
There was a Frasier episode.

419
00:37:43,312 --> 00:37:44,312
Have you ever seen Frasier?

420
00:37:45,252 --> 00:37:46,652
Generally familiar, but no.

421
00:37:47,352 --> 00:37:47,712
Okay.

422
00:37:47,712 --> 00:37:51,712
Well, I would recommend just finding the reruns.

423
00:37:51,712 --> 00:37:54,532
it's a really good and funny series

424
00:37:54,532 --> 00:37:56,132
but

425
00:37:56,132 --> 00:37:58,472
he and his brother Niles are members

426
00:37:58,472 --> 00:37:59,552
of this wine club

427
00:37:59,552 --> 00:38:00,252
and

428
00:38:00,252 --> 00:38:04,512
one of the episodes they're discussing

429
00:38:04,512 --> 00:38:06,552
creating a governance structure for the

430
00:38:06,552 --> 00:38:08,372
wine club so they get up on stage

431
00:38:08,372 --> 00:38:10,532
and they're talking about bicameral

432
00:38:10,532 --> 00:38:12,572
legislatures and you know they're just sort of

433
00:38:12,572 --> 00:38:14,652
nerding out on the governance

434
00:38:14,652 --> 00:38:16,412
aspect of it and there's a guy

435
00:38:16,412 --> 00:38:18,572
who's sitting

436
00:38:18,572 --> 00:38:20,572
down listening to them and he

437
00:38:20,572 --> 00:38:25,852
He turns to the person next to him and says, you know, there used to be a time when I came here just to get drunk.

438
00:38:28,012 --> 00:38:31,752
And I think that's kind of the point, right?

439
00:38:32,672 --> 00:38:37,672
You can go down the rabbit hole if you so choose, but sometimes the answer is very simple.

440
00:38:38,452 --> 00:38:40,392
Well, hopefully it's not because you want to get drunk.

441
00:38:40,572 --> 00:38:43,492
Hopefully it's because you like the taste of it.

442
00:38:45,732 --> 00:38:48,132
I mean, sure, that's a good answer too.

443
00:38:48,132 --> 00:39:07,272
But that's kind of hits on like I fell into winemaking as like a great opportunity to scratch my running a business itch and realize that like I'm not one of those people that goes down the wine rabbit hole to that degree, which is rare for a winemaker, I guess.

444
00:39:07,952 --> 00:39:13,332
But I did find that there's a lot of things that I absolutely love about wine.

445
00:39:13,332 --> 00:39:20,272
and there's I you know I've had enough and I've learned enough that like I can go down the rabbit

446
00:39:20,272 --> 00:39:24,932
hole a little bit but what drives me with wine is more like hey let's have a great bottle with

447
00:39:24,932 --> 00:39:30,132
friends let's pair this great wine with this great meal let's elevate our experiences and so

448
00:39:30,132 --> 00:39:40,232
I guess I relate with the the more average wine enjoyer a little bit more because you know and

449
00:39:40,232 --> 00:39:44,412
and kind of can be a bridge in between the two extremes that tend to exist.

450
00:39:46,632 --> 00:39:50,012
Because yeah, it's really cool to try all these different wines,

451
00:39:50,132 --> 00:39:52,732
but like I've got the Bitcoin rabbit hole to go down.

452
00:39:53,272 --> 00:39:56,312
I'm not going to go down every single rabbit hole with a ton of wine.

453
00:39:56,432 --> 00:40:00,272
And also like, I don't know, I have a ton of my wine.

454
00:40:00,732 --> 00:40:03,392
I don't need to be drinking. It's, it's interesting.

455
00:40:03,392 --> 00:40:04,872
It's fun to do and I do it occasionally,

456
00:40:05,012 --> 00:40:07,632
but like I don't need to be going out and buying a ton of different wine from a

457
00:40:07,632 --> 00:40:10,732
bunch of different places to go down the wine rabbit hole and experience all these different

458
00:40:10,732 --> 00:40:16,052
things because i've got enough of my own wine and all my friends whenever they come over like they

459
00:40:16,052 --> 00:40:19,292
don't want to drink someone else's wine they're at my house they want to drink with the winemaker

460
00:40:19,292 --> 00:40:25,192
so um it's fun to taste other bottles but ultimately the the value in wine for me is

461
00:40:25,192 --> 00:40:27,872
is the elevation of individual moments

462
00:40:27,872 --> 00:40:34,252
about a man can only go down one rabbit hole at a time

463
00:40:34,252 --> 00:40:36,552
it might be true

464
00:40:36,552 --> 00:40:40,292
so Ben there's some more chatter

465
00:40:40,292 --> 00:40:43,332
you obviously have a lot of fans

466
00:40:43,332 --> 00:40:45,412
on Nostra because the live stream is very active

467
00:40:45,412 --> 00:40:45,932
nice

468
00:40:45,932 --> 00:40:49,072
there's some chatter about your higher blend

469
00:40:49,072 --> 00:40:50,092
now that is

470
00:40:50,092 --> 00:40:52,632
I have seen you post about it

471
00:40:52,632 --> 00:40:53,352
and it is obviously

472
00:40:53,352 --> 00:40:56,472
at this point very painfully

473
00:40:56,472 --> 00:40:58,292
unfortunately and ironically named

474
00:40:58,292 --> 00:40:59,652
blend after

475
00:40:59,652 --> 00:41:02,572
the Creed song which is supposed to be the anthem

476
00:41:02,572 --> 00:41:08,592
for the last for the for the for the dead bull market i think it's safe to say the last one uh

477
00:41:08,592 --> 00:41:12,852
but you did come out with this blend and i've seen you post about it on nostril uh talk about that a

478
00:41:12,852 --> 00:41:21,392
little bit yeah that so in kind of my i'm going down the bitcoin rabbit hole becoming a bitcoiner

479
00:41:21,392 --> 00:41:29,212
orienting like my entire life to bitcoin um including the wine business um there's a bit of

480
00:41:29,212 --> 00:41:31,312
you know if you run a winery

481
00:41:31,312 --> 00:41:33,252
like you gotta especially this kind of started out

482
00:41:33,252 --> 00:41:50,328
with my I was selling to normal people and I starting a wine brand Peony Lane ultimately And I got to make wine that is that brand I got to make you know my varieties And when you make a variety you call

483
00:41:50,328 --> 00:41:57,708
it that variety. It's kind of like, you know, that's just wine. But then I just had some

484
00:41:57,708 --> 00:42:03,388
opportunities where, you know, blending all the barrels together for a specific variety. I had a

485
00:42:03,388 --> 00:42:09,328
couple left over that were more than i could fit in the blend i was making of that of the just to

486
00:42:09,328 --> 00:42:12,568
say every barrel tastes slightly different so you blend them all together before you bottle

487
00:42:12,568 --> 00:42:20,628
um in a variety but i had a few extra barrels lying around ultimately and uh i i mean i planned

488
00:42:20,628 --> 00:42:27,688
for this so it wasn't that haphazard but um in that i knew i was going to make a blend and in

489
00:42:27,688 --> 00:42:32,828
coming up with blend names it's like well i don't know i have enough wine that i can sell elsewhere

490
00:42:32,828 --> 00:42:38,528
What if I just try out this Bitcoin thing, selling, making a Bitcoin wine, because that

491
00:42:38,528 --> 00:42:39,668
scratches the niche for me.

492
00:42:40,668 --> 00:42:45,908
And actually, before I did that, I guess I picked the best barrel of my 2021 vintage

493
00:42:45,908 --> 00:42:47,748
and made that Satoshi's Reserve.

494
00:42:48,948 --> 00:42:51,728
That was really scratching the itch because that was one barrel.

495
00:42:52,208 --> 00:42:54,088
If that takes forever to sell, fine.

496
00:42:54,408 --> 00:42:55,808
You know, I can test that out.

497
00:42:55,968 --> 00:42:57,248
And that went so well.

498
00:42:57,588 --> 00:42:59,548
And I had that was limited.

499
00:42:59,708 --> 00:43:00,808
So it was very high price.

500
00:43:00,808 --> 00:43:09,008
And I had Bitcoiners being like, hey, I want a Bitcoin bottle that isn't so crazy high price.

501
00:43:09,128 --> 00:43:11,528
So when it's not so crazy high price, I have to make a bunch of them.

502
00:43:12,308 --> 00:43:29,908
And it was kind of this awesome bit of like, you know, whatever creative moment or just like this ability for like I was able to take my work and really like just ram it into my passion where I was addicted to Creed.

503
00:43:29,908 --> 00:43:31,408
I was listening to Creed all the time.

504
00:43:31,528 --> 00:43:36,748
I found out like a year into it that my mom used to blast Creed when I was a kid and put it on repeat.

505
00:43:36,888 --> 00:43:38,808
She had a human clay CD.

506
00:43:39,448 --> 00:43:42,548
I didn't even remember this, but she would play it all the time.

507
00:43:42,608 --> 00:43:43,728
So it's probably why I love it.

508
00:43:44,708 --> 00:43:50,988
And that meme taken off was was so fun for that first little bit of euphoria.

509
00:43:50,988 --> 00:43:54,728
I ever felt blasting up to 74K before the halving.

510
00:43:54,728 --> 00:44:02,568
that it was like yeah that's fucking funny i'm gonna put creed on this wine bottle and it's

511
00:44:02,568 --> 00:44:07,348
gonna be bitcoin and people are gonna buy it and the fact that like i sold out it was good wine

512
00:44:07,348 --> 00:44:16,548
and uh i get to forever be like yeah i named a wine bottle after fucking creed uh and it's sold

513
00:44:16,548 --> 00:44:23,988
like that's so fun for me um you know no matter what you do work can get monotonous and uh making

514
00:44:23,988 --> 00:44:29,728
it just fun while also maintaining like you know a bit of seriousness and in some other parts like

515
00:44:29,728 --> 00:44:35,468
i don't want to be a fully like just bitcoin branded winery where it's like there's no you

516
00:44:35,468 --> 00:44:41,328
know it's all novelty but a little bit of that is really fun and it people were psyched on it and

517
00:44:41,328 --> 00:44:47,568
that's you know that's just uh makes me fired up to to just dive into creative pursuits like that

518
00:44:47,568 --> 00:44:54,828
was it uh i i can understand bitcoin is buying it for the name and you know they caught up in

519
00:44:54,828 --> 00:45:03,228
the euphoria uh and i did not get to try it uh but i guess what is your verdict on it apart from

520
00:45:03,228 --> 00:45:10,848
it being a fun meme and um you getting to do it right but was would you say it was a

521
00:45:10,848 --> 00:45:13,948
was it a good wine from your perspective?

522
00:45:15,088 --> 00:45:19,028
I see you dancing around, not knowing how to ask that question.

523
00:45:19,708 --> 00:45:20,608
Yeah, it was good.

524
00:45:20,688 --> 00:45:24,548
I mean, it was a blend of Merlot, Cab Sauve and Cab Franc.

525
00:45:24,668 --> 00:45:29,068
So kind of a classic Bordeaux blend with, you know, my own style of winemaking.

526
00:45:29,268 --> 00:45:33,368
So a little bit less leathery, a little bit less, a little bit more fruit forward, I guess.

527
00:45:34,308 --> 00:45:37,028
And yeah, I mean, it was really good.

528
00:45:37,028 --> 00:45:41,868
it was on par with pretty much all my other wines from that vintage which were were good and you know

529
00:45:41,868 --> 00:45:48,368
sold out of them for the most part at this point um there was basically the only difference between

530
00:45:48,368 --> 00:45:53,068
that and any of my other wine was just that it was a blend of different varieties um same quality

531
00:45:53,068 --> 00:45:58,048
same winemaking because it was literally just from those um it was just like this excuse to put

532
00:45:58,048 --> 00:46:03,768
bitcoin on it to put creed on it and have a little fun because i you know i have to call it a red

533
00:46:03,768 --> 00:46:14,388
blend legally so why not give it a fun name how many bottles do you make well um this year is

534
00:46:14,388 --> 00:46:20,708
going to be quite a step down just because i overproduced um i've made up to 10 000 a year and

535
00:46:20,708 --> 00:46:28,788
um probably down to maybe two or three thousand my first couple years um i meant of the higher

536
00:46:28,788 --> 00:46:32,288
Of the higher, let's see, five barrels, about 1,500 bottles.

537
00:46:34,308 --> 00:46:36,148
And those sold out pretty quick?

538
00:46:37,148 --> 00:46:37,388
Yeah.

539
00:46:37,708 --> 00:46:38,568
Yeah, pretty quick.

540
00:46:41,208 --> 00:46:45,248
I mean, the way I wanted to sell them, some people bought a ton of them, but the way I

541
00:46:45,248 --> 00:46:50,248
always kind of wanted to sell them is like, just from a marketing perspective, it's, hey,

542
00:46:50,288 --> 00:46:51,588
I have this fun meme bottle.

543
00:46:51,808 --> 00:46:55,388
I want you to buy one of those and I want you to buy five normal bottles.

544
00:46:55,388 --> 00:47:03,528
um so i honestly like selling it quickly was not in my prerogative i wanted it as this

545
00:47:03,528 --> 00:47:09,368
attention grabber and i wanted you to buy one of those and five of the others um so yeah i don't

546
00:47:09,368 --> 00:47:14,548
know it probably took a little bit less than a year to sell out um which is you know per vintage

547
00:47:14,548 --> 00:47:21,588
that's about what i want um so yeah i mean it went really well i was really happy with it it

548
00:47:21,588 --> 00:47:28,988
was fun and people enjoyed it and now i've got my next vintage i auctioned off the first 21 bottles

549
00:47:28,988 --> 00:47:33,628
but um i'll be releasing my next satoshi's reserve vintage at some point

550
00:47:33,628 --> 00:47:42,268
soonish um waiting on state grapes yeah that's from a state grapes so that's from state pinot so

551
00:47:42,268 --> 00:47:47,948
the the social reserve is like the higher and i'll i'll change up i'm not going to go back to higher

552
00:47:47,948 --> 00:47:51,628
may call it that but i'm going to change up the graphics and the design and everything

553
00:47:51,628 --> 00:47:56,788
that's like a bigger blend that i kind of want to be like hey every year let's change it up let's

554
00:47:56,788 --> 00:48:01,668
get it do it use an artist or get my graphic designer to design something sweet have some

555
00:48:01,668 --> 00:48:07,788
fun with it and then my satoshi's reserve is that's my best barrel of wine from every vintage

556
00:48:07,788 --> 00:48:14,008
and that is going to remain a little bit more consistent um more much more limited as a number

557
00:48:14,008 --> 00:48:24,048
bottles and higher end and yeah so i kind of have this like consistent higher end bitcoin wine and

558
00:48:24,048 --> 00:48:30,948
then a high quality but not necessarily my best single barrel that i choose out every year um

559
00:48:30,948 --> 00:48:35,328
and have a little bit more fun with the the other one

560
00:48:35,328 --> 00:48:46,048
we have a question from rosetta cypher in the live chat who asks any plan to distill the mediocre

561
00:48:46,048 --> 00:48:52,068
batches and turn them into into brandy or partner with the local distillery that's actually a good

562
00:48:52,068 --> 00:48:58,148
question ben or brandy or you know i'm more partial to grappa the clearer version have you considered

563
00:48:58,148 --> 00:49:06,348
that yeah i'm i'm not really sure of the legality of me selling it in the future but um in my first

564
00:49:06,348 --> 00:49:12,108
couple years of figuring out how to make wine i definitely messed up a couple barrels and i've

565
00:49:12,108 --> 00:49:17,308
just been sitting on them from the perspective of a distillery they haven't you know just sitting on

566
00:49:17,308 --> 00:49:25,088
them as it's the wine's already ruined ruined so um they're just i need to contact a distillery and

567
00:49:25,088 --> 00:49:32,768
get it done uh my dad back in 2014 he knows what he what he did and how he fucked up but uh

568
00:49:32,768 --> 00:49:40,928
it's a stupid mistake and he had his entire vintage go bad um and he got it he got those

569
00:49:40,928 --> 00:49:48,388
distilled and so i guess we're 12 year old brandy now um that he's just been aging and

570
00:49:48,388 --> 00:49:54,628
i don't know i would do a better job than he does he doesn't really have much sense of taste but um

571
00:49:54,628 --> 00:50:07,688
I don't know. It'd be fun to do. I don't know what the liquor licensing would be like because getting a limited winery license, they make pretty easy here, but they take spirits a lot more seriously.

572
00:50:08,308 --> 00:50:16,688
So it's possible, but like ultimately, cool, I'd get it distilled and then you wouldn't want to drink it for another 10 years.

573
00:50:20,748 --> 00:50:22,668
So you're saying there's a chance.

574
00:50:22,668 --> 00:50:29,388
i'm saying there's a chance but you got to be patient um but yeah i i think i i am actually

575
00:50:29,388 --> 00:50:35,748
planning on doing that it's just like well once you do it then you've got to sit on it even more

576
00:50:35,748 --> 00:50:43,528
so and are you considering grappa at all or is it's going to be just straight brandy

577
00:50:43,528 --> 00:50:50,968
if that if it does happen um i'd have to look into grappa more um really haven't decided what

578
00:50:50,968 --> 00:50:55,648
i want to do with it i need to talk to the distiller first i'm still in uh i'm you know

579
00:50:55,648 --> 00:51:03,788
i've got so many fires to put out as running a business that um it's just since it's not i don't

580
00:51:03,788 --> 00:51:08,188
need to get it done tomorrow it's not on the top of the priority list right now well i don't know

581
00:51:08,188 --> 00:51:13,968
ben there's a there's a new business model idea that's just come up in the chat uh which has have

582
00:51:13,968 --> 00:51:20,528
the distillery sell it with their license and take a percentage and buy bitcoin look if they're down

583
00:51:20,528 --> 00:51:26,068
100 absolutely i would liquidate that and just take the lump sum um

584
00:51:26,068 --> 00:51:35,108
maybe take a little bit for me and bottle it cool and whatever but um yeah i would absolutely lump

585
00:51:35,108 --> 00:51:43,668
some sell that stuff and buy bitcoin right now so ben is are there other are there enough

586
00:51:43,668 --> 00:51:50,848
vineyards in your vicinity in um uh in colorado where if a big corner said you know what let's

587
00:51:50,848 --> 00:51:55,408
just do let's do a sideways trip because why not as the bear market might as well just do a road

588
00:51:55,408 --> 00:52:01,888
trip we'll go vineyard hopping um that sounds like a nice thing to do maybe not in february

589
00:52:01,888 --> 00:52:09,888
maybe we can wait till may or june yeah and and uh is but is that is that even a possibility now

590
00:52:09,888 --> 00:52:26,128
Oh, absolutely. There's, I forget the exact number, 10 to 15 in my town. Definitely more than you could hit in a day. People usually spend a weekend here. And then an hour for me is 40, like a ton.

591
00:52:26,128 --> 00:52:33,748
um more yeah just and much bigger scale i think in my like obviously i'm biased but i think

592
00:52:33,748 --> 00:52:38,328
in my town generally on average you're going to get better wine whereas there's some great

593
00:52:38,328 --> 00:52:42,388
growers out great growers and producers out there but the average is kind of brought down

594
00:52:42,388 --> 00:52:49,908
um with some bigger producers but yeah there's i mean western colorado is kind of becoming a wine

595
00:52:49,908 --> 00:52:56,028
region um that people are finding out about it you know it takes forever because it takes i

596
00:52:56,028 --> 00:53:09,428
I think the first grape was planted in the early 1970s, and it's going to take, you know, a while for that grape to mature to five years for it to mature and then another year or two to get wine from it.

597
00:53:09,428 --> 00:53:12,388
And then a little while to say, oh, that actually tastes good.

598
00:53:12,408 --> 00:53:15,288
And then the next farmer to plant to see that and plant more.

599
00:53:15,288 --> 00:53:20,528
um so it takes a few generations to kind of develop a wine region because of the the length

600
00:53:20,528 --> 00:53:26,648
of time for grapes to grow for wine to age and then um to see the consistency of the growing

601
00:53:26,648 --> 00:53:30,808
season and for people to make the long-term decisions to start wineries to plant grapes

602
00:53:30,808 --> 00:53:38,768
on their on their farms so um my town probably late 90s is when things really got kicked up into

603
00:53:38,768 --> 00:53:45,168
the first notch and then was established in the mid 2010s.

604
00:53:45,268 --> 00:53:47,508
And then kind of a year or two before COVID,

605
00:53:47,788 --> 00:53:53,768
some newer blood came in and maybe a year or two before I started and has

606
00:53:53,768 --> 00:53:59,008
taken what was like, not quite old timers,

607
00:53:59,128 --> 00:54:03,348
but becoming the old timers now what they were doing is they were,

608
00:54:03,348 --> 00:54:06,008
you know, they were making solid wine, but they're, you know, they weren't,

609
00:54:06,168 --> 00:54:07,248
they were just doing their thing.

610
00:54:07,248 --> 00:54:12,148
And then some outside young energy comes in and kind of takes on the expansionist ideas.

611
00:54:13,768 --> 00:54:18,768
Recently, this this guy who is he's pretty insane.

612
00:54:18,908 --> 00:54:27,608
He he's his family is his grandpa's in the Smithsonian Institute for grape growing in California.

613
00:54:27,608 --> 00:54:37,008
So he was a big producer growing family in Napa Valley who moved out here because he tried some awesome wine and thought he could really make it happen.

614
00:54:37,008 --> 00:54:41,428
out here so he's kind of in his first year as a production and that's just to say like there's

615
00:54:41,428 --> 00:54:48,428
people discovering it and discovering it like for him it's like this he's been around fucking wine

616
00:54:48,428 --> 00:54:55,608
and um discovering it and being like wow i want to plant roots here literally and uh build it like

617
00:54:55,608 --> 00:55:03,348
build my own place out here build this place up and um i don't know i i think that that's kind of

618
00:55:03,348 --> 00:55:10,148
And I've seen it with people messaging my dad back when he was making wine from our vineyard, not really knowing what he was doing.

619
00:55:10,148 --> 00:55:16,008
People telling very high-level Psalms, being like, holy shit, this is really good.

620
00:55:16,068 --> 00:55:19,368
I didn't know what to expect, and I found this world-class wine.

621
00:55:21,068 --> 00:55:28,688
And then I went to a tasting with some big-time wine collectors, distributors.

622
00:55:29,308 --> 00:55:33,228
We did a blind tasting of 20 Pinot Noirs all around.

623
00:55:33,264 --> 00:55:36,364
from mostly high elevation environments all around the world.

624
00:55:36,564 --> 00:55:36,844
Um,

625
00:55:36,844 --> 00:55:41,904
so some from my region and some from incredible wineries all around the

626
00:55:41,904 --> 00:55:42,144
world.

627
00:55:42,624 --> 00:55:43,064
And,

628
00:55:43,184 --> 00:55:43,624
um,

629
00:55:44,044 --> 00:55:44,704
when we,

630
00:55:44,824 --> 00:55:47,004
I didn't know it was mine at the time,

631
00:55:47,004 --> 00:55:47,304
but,

632
00:55:47,304 --> 00:55:47,924
uh,

633
00:55:47,924 --> 00:55:48,924
when we got to my wine,

634
00:55:49,004 --> 00:55:49,424
everyone was like,

635
00:55:49,484 --> 00:55:49,884
Oh man,

636
00:55:49,904 --> 00:55:50,544
this is great.

637
00:55:50,544 --> 00:55:51,124
Old world.

638
00:55:51,224 --> 00:55:52,104
This gotta be a burgundy.

639
00:55:52,244 --> 00:55:53,064
And it was my wine.

640
00:55:53,504 --> 00:55:55,144
So I think that there's these,

641
00:55:55,144 --> 00:55:57,104
like you get,

642
00:55:57,764 --> 00:56:01,664
it's really hard to establish credibility as a wine region.

643
00:56:01,664 --> 00:56:03,244
Cause there's so many other good ones that have been,

644
00:56:03,244 --> 00:56:07,504
been doing it for you know a thousand years and so it's like who the fuck are you you're in

645
00:56:07,504 --> 00:56:12,904
colorado doing it okay um and there's a lot of people who want to like you know they try my

646
00:56:12,904 --> 00:56:17,084
maybe try my wine but like they don't open up their mind enough to really experience it it's

647
00:56:17,084 --> 00:56:22,344
like oh yeah okay colorado wine whatever it can't you know they put an artificial cap on how good

648
00:56:22,344 --> 00:56:28,924
it can actually be yeah and when you do those blind tastings it really especially mixed in

649
00:56:28,924 --> 00:56:34,284
where it could be wine from anywhere um with people who really know their stuff bunch of

650
00:56:34,284 --> 00:56:41,804
winemakers bunch of bunch of tasters um professional tasters and um that's when you really kind of know

651
00:56:41,804 --> 00:56:47,944
quality um and it's definitely here it's just people don't know about it and people don't take

652
00:56:47,944 --> 00:56:55,144
it seriously and um it's hard to get on the map as a wine region yeah there's a comment in the chat

653
00:56:55,144 --> 00:57:00,864
that basically and it's a good point this must have been like what california napa sonoma must

654
00:57:00,864 --> 00:57:06,944
have been like back in the day i don't know when in the 70s or so right this facing the same i don't

655
00:57:06,944 --> 00:57:12,484
know when napa and sonoma took off actually they made a movie about it called bottle shock um because

656
00:57:12,484 --> 00:57:18,944
it was such a big deal for a california winery to win um i don't know the exact name of the award

657
00:57:18,944 --> 00:57:26,504
but basically best in show for the entire world um there's always old world producers that won that

658
00:57:26,504 --> 00:57:35,444
in 1970 1973 maybe 1971 for the meme um a california wine won for the first time and it

659
00:57:35,444 --> 00:57:41,944
like blew the wine world up as far as perception and um then yeah tons of investment went into

660
00:57:41,944 --> 00:57:48,944
california and that's why um you know that's why there's so much wine produced there um but

661
00:57:48,944 --> 00:57:54,684
ultimately a lot of california has been california wine has been commoditized uh because you can just

662
00:57:54,684 --> 00:58:00,824
slap the california or like napa or sonoma coast or whatever that brand on it and it doesn't have

663
00:58:00,824 --> 00:58:06,724
to actually be good because you're riding on the wave of of that brand um whereas when you're in the

664
00:58:06,724 --> 00:58:12,864
smaller producer you you know you have to fight that perception in the opposite way so um there's

665
00:58:12,864 --> 00:58:19,204
a lot of california wine that's become lazy that's um you know it's made to all taste the same and

666
00:58:19,204 --> 00:58:24,904
made with a ton of additives it's a cab from california tastes like a cab from california

667
00:58:24,904 --> 00:58:30,924
should with no nuance um you know part of that's just like you know victim of their own success

668
00:58:30,924 --> 00:58:36,384
and there's absolutely insanely incredible wine from california but um and there's there's bad

669
00:58:36,384 --> 00:58:44,004
wine from colorado as well it's just like um you can kind of see when you can coast on the region

670
00:58:44,004 --> 00:58:51,564
as opposed to when you really have to fight to make the region known yeah it seems like every

671
00:58:51,564 --> 00:58:59,944
state in the u.s has some kind of wine industry i mean i went i was in tennessee or maybe i can't

672
00:58:59,944 --> 00:59:04,024
remember if it's tennessee or texas and i mean it doesn't matter it could have been either one

673
00:59:04,024 --> 00:59:05,504
and the waiter said,

674
00:59:05,644 --> 00:59:07,544
would you like to try some local wine

675
00:59:07,544 --> 00:59:08,484
or is it a steak restaurant?

676
00:59:08,604 --> 00:59:09,804
I said, what are you talking about?

677
00:59:10,444 --> 00:59:12,604
Oh, our wine is famous.

678
00:59:13,064 --> 00:59:14,264
And you see what I'm saying.

679
00:59:14,344 --> 00:59:14,704
I mean, Tennessee,

680
00:59:14,904 --> 00:59:18,004
not states you associate with winemaking.

681
00:59:18,424 --> 00:59:21,084
And it does seem to be a thing.

682
00:59:21,164 --> 00:59:23,424
I mean, now I happen to live in New York State

683
00:59:23,424 --> 00:59:26,244
and I've tried wines from Long Island.

684
00:59:26,404 --> 00:59:28,104
I've tried wines from the Hudson Valley

685
00:59:28,104 --> 00:59:29,984
and from the Finger Lakes region.

686
00:59:29,984 --> 00:59:31,264
And they're actually not bad.

687
00:59:31,804 --> 00:59:33,484
Long Island makes some good reds,

688
00:59:33,484 --> 00:59:37,784
But it is interesting that how these things, they tend to be self-contained within the states.

689
00:59:38,684 --> 00:59:43,444
The only reason I know about Colorado wine, Ben, is because of you, right?

690
00:59:43,464 --> 00:59:44,064
Because you're a Bitcoin.

691
00:59:44,424 --> 00:59:45,644
Otherwise, I wouldn't have known about it.

692
00:59:47,684 --> 00:59:50,064
So another question in the chat.

693
00:59:50,664 --> 00:59:55,384
Do you tinker with the char or toast levels of the French oak barrels?

694
00:59:56,884 --> 00:59:59,824
You know, I guess I have a little bit.

695
00:59:59,824 --> 01:00:03,064
I buy generally neutral oak barrels.

696
01:00:03,484 --> 01:00:11,044
I don't have a it's pretty hard to get brand new ones at all times.

697
01:00:11,924 --> 01:00:16,844
And sometimes I'm producing a couple barrels of a variety.

698
01:00:17,784 --> 01:00:23,804
So if I did new oak, it would be way too much if I did half new oak.

699
01:00:25,084 --> 01:00:27,964
So like and for the Pinot, I want neutral barrels.

700
01:00:27,964 --> 01:00:33,464
I think I think really adding much oak influence in that kind of destroys what makes it beautiful.

701
01:00:33,484 --> 01:00:40,064
and ultimately you know i kind of maybe become victim to the disease of what i was saying with

702
01:00:40,064 --> 01:00:49,424
pinot makers elsewhere make wine for cab drinkers i probably make other wines more in the lens of

703
01:00:49,424 --> 01:00:57,124
i'm a pinot drinker because you know that's that's what i like it's who i am um and so i lean more

704
01:00:57,124 --> 01:01:03,364
towards less oak in all my in all my wines and that makes it a lot easier to do it makes a lot

705
01:01:03,364 --> 01:01:10,184
easier for me to do more neutral barrels and add oak cubes to the wine I have a lot more flexibility

706
01:01:10,184 --> 01:01:17,004
in how much oak I want to add and I used to do medium toast Hungarian oak and then I've switched

707
01:01:17,004 --> 01:01:22,064
to French just I think I like the flavor profile a little bit more it's a little bit more mellow

708
01:01:22,064 --> 01:01:29,784
um and like i'm not doing a ton of oak generally so um yeah i mess with it i'd probably change it

709
01:01:29,784 --> 01:01:39,284
year to year and um each each uh variety has i do it differently and i i kind of just added in

710
01:01:39,284 --> 01:01:44,284
by taste um this like i taste something i'm like oh this this needs a little bit more and you know

711
01:01:44,284 --> 01:01:49,144
add it and taste it a few months later and um see how that's changed and that's just kind of by feel

712
01:01:49,144 --> 01:01:54,824
um i mean realistically a lot of my winemaking is by feel it's um that's how i was taught to do it

713
01:01:54,824 --> 01:02:01,164
and you kind of just i don't know get the hang of it tasting it you've you've made the same wine

714
01:02:01,164 --> 01:02:06,084
year over year and you kind of know how it develops and you know what to add um and generally my

715
01:02:06,084 --> 01:02:12,684
philosophy is don't do much so i'm not in there with the crazy science lab adding different

716
01:02:12,684 --> 01:02:18,644
chemicals to manipulate the flavor in all different ways it's it's more subtle pushes and um yeah my

717
01:02:18,644 --> 01:02:28,724
oak regime is not like this crazy intensive way of doing things i mean well look i love to hear

718
01:02:28,724 --> 01:02:35,344
that ben i you know i'd much rather one making be an art than a science although um they're both

719
01:02:35,344 --> 01:02:41,824
always but yeah all right ben why don't we do this we're just a little past the one hour mark

720
01:02:41,824 --> 01:02:47,644
we can pause here for our value for value music segment uh and we're going to switch lanes here

721
01:02:47,644 --> 01:02:53,444
in the last couple of episodes we've had some heavy doom and we've had some political rock

722
01:02:53,444 --> 01:03:00,084
so now we need some personality and this next artist has without a doubt and i've been doing

723
01:03:00,084 --> 01:03:07,044
this for i don't know 12 almost 20 episodes now the best name for a musician or band that i've

724
01:03:07,044 --> 01:03:15,864
played on the show it is garage t rushington the third the track is called crescent dawn

725
01:03:15,864 --> 01:03:19,144
and while the name sounds like a surf noir movie,

726
01:03:19,644 --> 01:03:21,484
the delivery here is what grabs you.

727
01:03:21,584 --> 01:03:24,864
It's got a cinematic storytelling quality to it

728
01:03:24,864 --> 01:03:28,224
and a voice that sounds like it's seen a few things

729
01:03:28,224 --> 01:03:30,244
and lived to sing about them.

730
01:03:30,544 --> 01:03:33,124
A little lo-fi, but it's got a lot of attitude

731
01:03:33,124 --> 01:03:37,944
and it's exactly the kind of vibe shift

732
01:03:37,944 --> 01:03:40,564
I need anyway with everything that's going on.

733
01:03:40,564 --> 01:03:44,004
So put your sunglasses on for this one.

734
01:03:45,864 --> 01:04:15,844
guitar solo

735
01:04:15,864 --> 01:04:24,404
I found my voice in a smoky cathedral

736
01:04:24,404 --> 01:04:30,164
I had no choice, it was set in stone

737
01:04:30,164 --> 01:04:35,944
And from this voice with no longer a whimper

738
01:04:35,944 --> 01:04:39,944
I lifted a prayer into the unknown

739
01:04:39,944 --> 01:04:45,824
Oh, crescent on with your silver glow

740
01:04:45,824 --> 01:04:50,184
Illuminate my confidence

741
01:04:50,184 --> 01:05:20,164
guitar solo

742
01:05:20,184 --> 01:05:26,184
To finish lines one way or another

743
01:05:27,184 --> 01:05:33,184
Oh, crescent dawn with your silver glow

744
01:05:34,184 --> 01:05:37,184
Illuminate my confidence

745
01:05:38,184 --> 01:05:44,184
To guide me through the dissonance of love's remains

746
01:05:44,184 --> 01:05:51,964
Oh, crescent dawn, guide me through your veins.

747
01:06:14,184 --> 01:06:24,624
Oh, Crescent Dawn, with your silver glow

748
01:06:24,624 --> 01:06:28,964
Illuminate my confidence

749
01:06:28,964 --> 01:06:36,084
To guide me through the dissonance of love's remains

750
01:06:36,084 --> 01:06:42,784
Oh, Crescent Dawn, guide me through your veins

751
01:06:42,784 --> 01:07:11,504
That was Crescent Dawn

752
01:07:11,504 --> 01:07:13,044
by Garage T.

753
01:07:13,324 --> 01:07:14,364
Rushington III.

754
01:07:15,404 --> 01:07:16,984
The guitar tone is one thing,

755
01:07:17,144 --> 01:07:19,124
but what about that vocal presence?

756
01:07:19,244 --> 01:07:21,804
It's got that specific raconteur

757
01:07:21,804 --> 01:07:23,344
vibe, like a guy

758
01:07:23,344 --> 01:07:25,244
holding court at the end of the bar.

759
01:07:25,804 --> 01:07:27,144
The combination of that gritty

760
01:07:27,144 --> 01:07:29,064
garage-style instrumentation with the

761
01:07:29,064 --> 01:07:30,864
storytelling lyrics give it a

762
01:07:30,864 --> 01:07:33,104
real sense of place. So I've got

763
01:07:33,104 --> 01:07:35,184
the 90% splits set up for the

764
01:07:35,184 --> 01:07:37,064
chapter. If you appreciate

765
01:07:37,064 --> 01:07:39,204
a songwriter who puts character first,

766
01:07:39,564 --> 01:07:41,264
then please send Mr.

767
01:07:41,264 --> 01:07:49,044
gt rushington the third some sats we need to keep unique voices like that in the ecosystem

768
01:07:49,044 --> 01:07:56,104
ben what did you think of that dude that was that's my my style for sure it's uh i kind of

769
01:07:56,104 --> 01:08:03,624
blend all the way like from grunge is kind of my main jam but with like a little bit of uh

770
01:08:03,624 --> 01:08:08,824
surfer vibes with some i wouldn't say there was country twang in that but there was like a little

771
01:08:08,824 --> 01:08:27,338
bit of something that was uh i don know that just like down home like in in between the grunge and that so i i really enjoyed that song yeah uh and so uh by the way if you like grunge so I can play Nirvana and Alice in Chains and stuff on the show

772
01:08:27,338 --> 01:08:30,858
for obvious reasons, licensing and all of that stuff.

773
01:08:30,858 --> 01:08:35,838
The only types of music I can play is if it's in the open music ecosystem,

774
01:08:36,018 --> 01:08:39,298
right, RSS or Noster and what have you, Wave Lake Fountain.

775
01:08:40,378 --> 01:08:43,458
And there's a reasonable selection there to choose from.

776
01:08:43,458 --> 01:08:46,338
and I found this

777
01:08:46,338 --> 01:08:48,278
Finnish grunge band called

778
01:08:48,278 --> 01:08:48,978
Polanski

779
01:08:48,978 --> 01:08:52,138
they're a contemporary band

780
01:08:52,138 --> 01:08:53,918
and it's incredible

781
01:08:53,918 --> 01:08:55,078
if you listen to them it's like

782
01:08:55,078 --> 01:08:58,618
is this the Stone Temple Pilots or is this Alice in Chains

783
01:08:58,618 --> 01:09:00,158
and I played a couple of their songs

784
01:09:00,158 --> 01:09:02,558
on the show in previous episodes

785
01:09:02,558 --> 01:09:03,798
so check it out

786
01:09:03,798 --> 01:09:05,738
you'll find them on Fountain

787
01:09:05,738 --> 01:09:07,418
it's called Polanski

788
01:09:07,418 --> 01:09:11,038
hell yeah

789
01:09:11,038 --> 01:09:14,878
All right.

790
01:09:14,998 --> 01:09:21,258
So we were talking about the oak barrels.

791
01:09:21,998 --> 01:09:24,878
Let's change track a little bit here.

792
01:09:25,898 --> 01:09:26,798
It's interesting, Ben.

793
01:09:27,278 --> 01:09:32,238
So last week's guest was – I realize this is the third farmer in a row,

794
01:09:32,318 --> 01:09:33,818
if you don't mind me calling you a farmer, Ben.

795
01:09:33,838 --> 01:09:34,198
Yeah, sure.

796
01:09:35,238 --> 01:09:37,938
You're the third farmer in a row I've had on the show.

797
01:09:37,938 --> 01:09:44,998
last week I had Ryan Cooper from Big Corn Ranch out in Missouri in Farmington and then the week

798
01:09:44,998 --> 01:09:55,038
before I had Augie who he's he's he's also based in Missouri I think near Kansas City and he's a

799
01:09:55,038 --> 01:10:01,038
tech developer turned regenerative farmer both of them are regenerative farmers and they were

800
01:10:01,038 --> 01:10:06,658
talking about this idea of a denim road right where it's I don't know if you've heard about this

801
01:10:06,658 --> 01:10:13,858
But it's a bunch of Bitcoiners who are into regenerative farming, regenerative agriculture.

802
01:10:14,218 --> 01:10:17,038
There's some beef initiative stuff going on there as well.

803
01:10:18,038 --> 01:10:32,598
And if I had to imagine like a Silk Road, not Ross Ulbricht's Silk Road, but like the Silk Road from back in the day, from like thousands, whatever, a thousand years ago.

804
01:10:32,598 --> 01:10:41,718
So I imagine this belt going diagonally across the country, maybe starting in Texas, I think encompassing a bit of Colorado as well.

805
01:10:41,718 --> 01:10:48,078
It just happens to be in the belt spot, going through Missouri, a bit of Indiana.

806
01:10:49,798 --> 01:10:53,678
And I think it kind of curves the western Pennsylvania as well.

807
01:10:53,818 --> 01:10:56,058
I don't know if Ohio is kind of in the way.

808
01:10:56,198 --> 01:10:57,258
I don't think it's really part of it.

809
01:10:57,258 --> 01:11:07,558
And it's a bunch of Bitcoiners who are trying to create this decentralized human marketplace, really, of these goods and services.

810
01:11:08,138 --> 01:11:09,818
There's a Noster angle to it.

811
01:11:09,918 --> 01:11:11,638
The Meshtadal guys are involved.

812
01:11:12,118 --> 01:11:14,938
Have you been paying attention to any of that stuff at all?

813
01:11:15,998 --> 01:11:23,798
I mean, outside of knowing that there's a bunch of awesome regenerative ag people within the Bitcoin world and meeting them over the years.

814
01:11:23,898 --> 01:11:25,378
No, not that specific stuff.

815
01:11:25,378 --> 01:11:25,578
No.

816
01:11:27,258 --> 01:11:32,158
Yeah, I'm wondering if there's an, if, I mean, you're right in that belt.

817
01:11:33,438 --> 01:11:44,338
And I wonder if there's some way in which Peony Lane Wine can become part of the Denim Road and the Mesh Tadal and all the other cool stuff that's happening.

818
01:11:44,338 --> 01:11:55,118
I love it. I mean, basically, like, whenever Bitcoiners roll through my town, driving from somewhere to somewhere or just randomly being in Peonia.

819
01:11:55,118 --> 01:12:08,558
I love having them over doing a tasting, going to the cellar and popping a bottle, just hanging out, talking Bitcoin because, you know, I have a couple of friends that I could talk Bitcoin to, but not a ton.

820
01:12:09,438 --> 01:12:11,298
But I am a little out of the way.

821
01:12:11,798 --> 01:12:14,518
Generally in Colorado, people, I'm four hours west of Denver.

822
01:12:14,718 --> 01:12:18,758
So it's not all the time, but it's enough where it's awesome.

823
01:12:18,758 --> 01:12:29,798
But just I guess I say that because I built my business to not have a customer facing area outside of online.

824
01:12:30,078 --> 01:12:32,218
But when Bitcoiners roll through, it's awesome.

825
01:12:32,538 --> 01:12:34,678
It's great to connect with other Bitcoiners.

826
01:12:34,838 --> 01:12:37,438
So I love seeing that.

827
01:12:37,658 --> 01:12:43,778
And I don't know what being part of it means, but I'm totally aligned.

828
01:12:43,778 --> 01:12:47,458
yeah I mean I can

829
01:12:47,458 --> 01:12:49,818
if you're interested I can make the introduction

830
01:12:49,818 --> 01:12:51,598
in public on NOSTA even

831
01:12:51,598 --> 01:12:53,418
and you could have the conversation in public

832
01:12:53,418 --> 01:12:54,558
just to see if anything

833
01:12:54,558 --> 01:12:56,938
if there's anything aligning

834
01:12:56,938 --> 01:12:58,078
I suspect there is

835
01:12:58,078 --> 01:13:00,958
we're trying to build

836
01:13:00,958 --> 01:13:02,298
resilient

837
01:13:02,298 --> 01:13:06,038
I guess trade routes

838
01:13:06,038 --> 01:13:08,098
that are not dependent

839
01:13:08,098 --> 01:13:09,298
on the fiat system

840
01:13:09,298 --> 01:13:12,278
having courier services

841
01:13:12,278 --> 01:13:13,558
that are not UPS

842
01:13:13,558 --> 01:13:24,738
a few of these but um yeah i guess with with wine it's uh i'm pretty siloed into my fiat system for

843
01:13:24,738 --> 01:13:31,738
liquor licensing and liquor taxes in different states that um i'm not as free to

844
01:13:31,738 --> 01:13:40,578
try like you know i'm all in bitcoin all in bitcoiners um but i'm like and i i would go

845
01:13:40,578 --> 01:13:45,578
so much further in Bitcoin tech as far as payments and really cool things going

846
01:13:46,178 --> 01:13:48,438
on with it. But I'm just,

847
01:13:48,598 --> 01:13:53,578
I'm not really able to do things in the fully self-sovereign way without

848
01:13:54,418 --> 01:13:59,558
taking on legal risk and risking the business from that perspective.

849
01:13:59,898 --> 01:14:02,438
So I guess in, in,

850
01:14:02,618 --> 01:14:05,438
I'm hearing about those courier services and stuff. It's, it's like,

851
01:14:05,478 --> 01:14:08,758
that's awesome. I would, I would love you guys to build that,

852
01:14:08,758 --> 01:14:11,358
but I'm not going to be able to be an early adopter.

853
01:14:12,318 --> 01:14:12,518
Yeah.

854
01:14:12,838 --> 01:14:14,218
What we need then, Ben,

855
01:14:14,618 --> 01:14:16,438
is we need prohibition to come back

856
01:14:16,438 --> 01:14:17,818
so that we can actually do this stuff.

857
01:14:17,838 --> 01:14:19,438
So I'll just be pregnant no matter what.

858
01:14:20,118 --> 01:14:21,038
Yeah, exactly.

859
01:14:21,618 --> 01:14:23,238
It'll be Moonshine, you'll be a bootlegger.

860
01:14:23,938 --> 01:14:25,238
Bootlegger on the denim road.

861
01:14:25,638 --> 01:14:28,138
That's an album.

862
01:14:29,058 --> 01:14:29,758
Yeah, exactly.

863
01:14:31,658 --> 01:14:33,898
But what about selling, you know,

864
01:14:34,038 --> 01:14:35,898
so I understand,

865
01:14:36,038 --> 01:14:38,698
and I think you touched upon this even last time

866
01:14:38,698 --> 01:14:45,678
you were here a year and a half ago on the challenges with how alcohol specifically,

867
01:14:46,178 --> 01:14:49,878
well, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, let's just say, are regulated in this country.

868
01:14:52,358 --> 01:14:53,638
And I get that.

869
01:14:53,858 --> 01:15:02,078
What about, you know, since then, Nostra marketplaces have greatly improved, right?

870
01:15:02,918 --> 01:15:04,978
I think it's NIP 99.

871
01:15:04,978 --> 01:15:12,478
anyway it's it's for listing events there's plebeian market there's shopster there's uh

872
01:15:12,478 --> 01:15:18,438
conduit market with eric fj i had on the show in december he's building essentially decentralized

873
01:15:18,438 --> 01:15:24,158
marketplaces where where any vendor can list their items and then you just get paid in bitcoin

874
01:15:24,158 --> 01:15:29,638
shipping all of that good stuff is that even is that on the cards given the regulation and

875
01:15:29,638 --> 01:15:36,318
oversight that you have to go through and that's great i i did one i forget if it was plebeian

876
01:15:36,318 --> 01:15:42,538
market or shopster i did one sale um i a year year and a half ago probably right around when

877
01:15:42,538 --> 01:15:49,718
we were talking um put up a a box of wine that people could buy and um had never messed with

878
01:15:49,718 --> 01:15:57,758
e-cash before so set that up and the person who runs whichever one of those is the only person

879
01:15:57,758 --> 01:16:00,078
that ever bought wine from it.

880
01:16:01,718 --> 01:16:04,798
And then I didn't, you know,

881
01:16:04,838 --> 01:16:06,558
I don't really know what I'm doing with eCash.

882
01:16:06,658 --> 01:16:12,078
And so I went to transfer it to like my Lightning wallet

883
01:16:12,078 --> 01:16:13,018
where I was more comfortable

884
01:16:13,018 --> 01:16:15,038
and it was going to cost me 4,000 sats

885
01:16:15,038 --> 01:16:16,478
and I was cheap and didn't do it.

886
01:16:16,638 --> 01:16:19,578
And then the next time I went to look at my eCash wallet,

887
01:16:19,758 --> 01:16:20,658
it wasn't there.

888
01:16:21,758 --> 01:16:24,358
I never knew how to withdraw it.

889
01:16:24,558 --> 01:16:26,558
So, I mean, it was like 300K sats.

890
01:16:27,758 --> 01:16:33,278
If someone showed me or if I just, you know, figured out a way to switch it to lightning real quick, great.

891
01:16:33,498 --> 01:16:39,158
But ultimately, I mean, honestly, I'm not even seeing my stuff on here.

892
01:16:39,258 --> 01:16:40,498
So maybe that's part of the reason.

893
01:16:40,658 --> 01:16:42,898
But I wasn't really seeing any demand from it.

894
01:16:43,518 --> 01:16:45,778
So I wasn't putting much energy towards it.

895
01:16:47,078 --> 01:16:47,818
But you can.

896
01:16:47,898 --> 01:16:52,718
You can put your wine up on Plebeian Market or Shop Store, any one of those things.

897
01:16:53,198 --> 01:16:54,018
Yeah, absolutely.

898
01:16:54,018 --> 01:16:58,198
And I mean, I thought I had some on there this whole time.

899
01:16:58,278 --> 01:17:04,438
So maybe that's why no one's been buying it, if I'm seeing this correctly, but looking at it right now.

900
01:17:05,138 --> 01:17:11,018
But yeah, there wasn't demand and people were buying directly from me on Noster via Zapsnag.

901
01:17:11,998 --> 01:17:15,198
So that's been working fine.

902
01:17:15,638 --> 01:17:21,158
I don't know if these Plebeian Market and Shopsters still kind of require e-cash or whatnot.

903
01:17:21,158 --> 01:17:27,678
um i don't know what the status is with that but um it's it kind of just got put to the back burner

904
01:17:27,678 --> 01:17:34,378
because demand wasn't there for me and i was getting other sales on nostr and um and i lost

905
01:17:34,378 --> 01:17:41,398
i lost the bitcoin so um it's cool to see these are still kicking though i honestly haven't looked

906
01:17:41,398 --> 01:17:48,958
at them in a while it's kind of i put to the back of my my brain um but this is absolutely the future

907
01:17:48,958 --> 01:17:55,278
to me i mean this is like this is fucking awesome and something i love um it just wasn't like

908
01:17:55,278 --> 01:18:02,538
it i i wasn't getting the hits and i think that might be looking at it now i think maybe my my

909
01:18:02,538 --> 01:18:10,058
listing got taken down over some update or something or expired um but it's yeah i don't

910
01:18:10,058 --> 01:18:15,998
know what what more can you tell me about it well before we get into that ben i just as you were

911
01:18:15,998 --> 01:18:17,158
speaking, talking about demand.

912
01:18:18,398 --> 01:18:20,138
I just realized there's a great

913
01:18:20,138 --> 01:18:21,418
paradox here,

914
01:18:21,678 --> 01:18:22,898
which is

915
01:18:22,898 --> 01:18:26,158
you are a Bitcoiner,

916
01:18:26,218 --> 01:18:27,978
you're an artisan, and you

917
01:18:27,978 --> 01:18:29,778
bring those Bitcoiner values

918
01:18:29,778 --> 01:18:32,018
to your craft, and

919
01:18:32,018 --> 01:18:34,038
therefore, you create an

920
01:18:34,038 --> 01:18:36,078
incredible product that needs to be priced

921
01:18:36,078 --> 01:18:36,618
accordingly.

922
01:18:38,218 --> 01:18:40,058
We are now in a

923
01:18:40,058 --> 01:18:40,738
bear market,

924
01:18:41,158 --> 01:18:42,598
and

925
01:18:42,598 --> 01:18:45,978
obviously, there's always a good

926
01:18:45,978 --> 01:18:52,838
time to drink good wine but but this is the best time i think or not the best but that's i'm

927
01:18:52,838 --> 01:18:56,758
phrasing there's always good times but there's always a good time but this is the time when

928
01:18:56,758 --> 01:19:01,558
people will will need to drink wine the most but they're broke because it's a bear market

929
01:19:01,558 --> 01:19:07,818
so that's the paradox absolutely and it i there's another paradox within that is

930
01:19:07,818 --> 01:19:10,598
kind of around the similar.

931
01:19:12,618 --> 01:19:18,998
What I was doing at first was I was selling wine for the price that other wineries here

932
01:19:18,998 --> 01:19:24,238
sell it for because other wineries here are selling Colorado wine to people who look down

933
01:19:24,238 --> 01:19:25,018
on Colorado wine.

934
01:19:25,938 --> 01:19:31,518
And I was selling it for around those prices and to get my margins before I was having people

935
01:19:31,518 --> 01:19:32,198
pay for shipping.

936
01:19:33,338 --> 01:19:35,338
And I wasn't really getting many sales.

937
01:19:35,338 --> 01:19:44,538
And then I basically I raised my prices a decent amount, but made shipping free, which my margin stayed about the same because shipping line is ridiculously expensive.

938
01:19:46,278 --> 01:19:56,618
I mean, it's not insane, but it's it's not it's not shipping a letter, shipping something that's fragile, heat and cold, sensitive and heavy.

939
01:19:56,618 --> 01:20:06,078
so difficult but um i realized that no one wants to order go through the process of ordering wine

940
01:20:06,078 --> 01:20:13,938
that is as good as the wine that they can get at the store and this is generally i'm referring to

941
01:20:13,938 --> 01:20:17,378
people who have not tried my wine because once you try it you love it you get the brand loyalty

942
01:20:17,378 --> 01:20:22,118
all that stuff and you know what you're ordering but if you see it priced the same as wine you

943
01:20:22,118 --> 01:20:25,538
normally buy at the store you're not going to order it because it's you know it's just that

944
01:20:25,538 --> 01:20:30,718
other wine like cool it's supportive bitcoin or that's going to convert some people and um buying

945
01:20:30,718 --> 01:20:38,118
low intervention wine is going to convert some people but um why is that nicer wine that you're

946
01:20:38,118 --> 01:20:42,818
telling me it's nicer why is it priced the same as the rest of the wine so um i'm kind of stuck

947
01:20:42,818 --> 01:20:47,918
in this world where like i can't lower the prices uh because then it looks like cheap wine that

948
01:20:47,918 --> 01:20:54,138
you're not going to order um and you know i feel like i'm in a good price range where i have some

949
01:20:54,138 --> 01:20:54,818
high-end stuff.

950
01:20:54,978 --> 01:20:56,138
I have some...

951
01:20:56,138 --> 01:20:58,078
A lot of my wine's around...

952
01:20:58,078 --> 01:20:58,798
It's $49.

953
01:21:01,038 --> 01:21:02,918
But I also don't want to offer

954
01:21:02,918 --> 01:21:14,792
a ton of sales because then it like okay well you not as much of I trying to sell a more luxury product a higher wine and as soon as you start doing sales you um

955
01:21:14,792 --> 01:21:21,832
destroy the value of the brand uh not destroy fully but you decrease it um and that's fine

956
01:21:21,832 --> 01:21:26,232
for a more commodity product but for something that's more art something that's more in this

957
01:21:26,232 --> 01:21:31,692
higher-end field um that is seen like wine is a specifically like kind of a you know a classy

958
01:21:31,692 --> 01:21:36,992
experience um higher end product that you you want it to be higher end you want it to feel that way

959
01:21:36,992 --> 01:21:42,952
um this is some i'm saying this to say this is something i've been thinking about a lot is like

960
01:21:42,952 --> 01:21:48,772
the last bear market i wasn't established enough to worry about this um in this bear market

961
01:21:48,772 --> 01:21:55,672
it's like okay so now that bitcoin crashed 50 am i just gonna go dry on sales right when i like

962
01:21:55,672 --> 01:22:03,932
i'm also broke um i you know i saw this coming uh but there's not really any way around it outside

963
01:22:03,932 --> 01:22:09,512
of finding other customers and that's really just kind of been a no-go for me as far as

964
01:22:09,512 --> 01:22:17,432
my drive to do so um getting like it's not a my wine's not good enough or i'm not good enough

965
01:22:17,432 --> 01:22:26,112
a business it's like it's okay putting my wine in front of other people either involves like

966
01:22:26,112 --> 01:22:34,792
being on a street uh driving a ton and selling wine or the markdown for what i have to put it as

967
01:22:34,792 --> 01:22:41,072
because then it's just another colorado wine to people um is crazy low and wine people won't take

968
01:22:41,072 --> 01:22:45,932
it seriously because they're you know they have this envision in their mind but also like consumers

969
01:22:45,932 --> 01:22:50,852
don't know Colorado wine. So anyways, I'm in this like weird paradox. I found my niche. It works

970
01:22:50,852 --> 01:22:55,692
with Bitcoiners, but there's this one major problem where every so often we're all fucking

971
01:22:55,692 --> 01:23:01,552
broke and I'm one of them. And, uh, I don't really know how to get around that except like,

972
01:23:01,552 --> 01:23:09,252
I just need to be better and, uh, provide value more and do like, you know, tell people more about

973
01:23:09,252 --> 01:23:13,512
my wine, get it out there. People love it. I mean, the same time, like, cool, we're down 50%,

974
01:23:13,512 --> 01:23:19,032
But like, you know, compared to four years ago, my net worth is much higher.

975
01:23:20,032 --> 01:23:24,972
I've stacked I've stacked my ass off in the past few years and we're still at fucking 70 K.

976
01:23:25,132 --> 01:23:29,452
So, like, you know, we're broke comparatively and we're broke compared to our expectations.

977
01:23:29,452 --> 01:23:31,352
But ultimately, we can all survive.

978
01:23:31,352 --> 01:23:44,312
And I always remind myself that people's savings and a lot of people on Twitter, like prolific people on Twitter or on Noster, like they make money from Bitcoin and kind of the same position I do.

979
01:23:44,552 --> 01:23:46,432
But most people have a normal job.

980
01:23:47,532 --> 01:23:48,772
Most people have put in good savings.

981
01:23:48,912 --> 01:23:50,132
Most Bitcoiners are successful.

982
01:23:50,872 --> 01:23:52,352
And so like, yeah, sure.

983
01:23:52,392 --> 01:23:59,092
The Bitcoin price might be down and their their priorities might be shifted a little bit more towards buying Bitcoin as opposed to buying other things.

984
01:23:59,092 --> 01:24:06,772
But ultimately, like other people's income is not as Bitcoin price sensitive as mine is.

985
01:24:07,652 --> 01:24:17,252
And it's this trap that you can get into when Bitcoin's high of like, oh, or it's this trap you get in with Bitcoin is like, I've just got to wait on Bitcoin.

986
01:24:18,072 --> 01:24:22,752
And I guess I just keep telling myself, like, no, you can't wait on Bitcoin.

987
01:24:22,872 --> 01:24:24,172
Like, obviously, you can't wait on Bitcoin.

988
01:24:24,292 --> 01:24:25,132
You need to be out there.

989
01:24:25,272 --> 01:24:26,292
You need income.

990
01:24:26,292 --> 01:24:34,552
um but not everyone is as susceptible to it and i can't just wait on bitcoin to go back up to

991
01:24:34,552 --> 01:24:39,732
continue by business so um it's this trap we get into both on the upside and the downside like

992
01:24:39,732 --> 01:24:45,872
woe is me we're down 50 ah man bummer um and oh bitcoin is going to go up more and i'll be able

993
01:24:45,872 --> 01:24:50,912
to achieve my dreams and you just it's the kind of the hard part of being in bitcoin is like

994
01:24:50,912 --> 01:24:56,632
you know over time the volatility of bitcoin is going to work in your favor and you're going to

995
01:24:56,632 --> 01:25:03,472
do well but uh you can't just wait on that yeah it's like i was saying at the beginning when it's

996
01:25:03,472 --> 01:25:09,972
waiting for satoshi like like the play waiting for godot no no one's coming it's you you if

997
01:25:09,972 --> 01:25:16,852
if anyone's coming it's you and you gotta you gotta do it um uh well i want to answer your

998
01:25:16,852 --> 01:25:18,672
question real quick on you asking about the

999
01:25:18,672 --> 01:25:20,172
Nostra markets and then

1000
01:25:20,172 --> 01:25:21,972
we'll turn to a couple of questions

1001
01:25:21,972 --> 01:25:23,312
in the chat.

1002
01:25:24,232 --> 01:25:25,412
I think it's a

1003
01:25:25,412 --> 01:25:28,672
NIP 90 something event. I can't remember

1004
01:25:28,672 --> 01:25:29,712
the name off the top of my head.

1005
01:25:30,952 --> 01:25:32,652
But as a seller, you don't

1006
01:25:32,652 --> 01:25:34,472
even need to worry about that. All you have to do is

1007
01:25:34,472 --> 01:25:36,632
just go to the new plebeian

1008
01:25:36,632 --> 01:25:38,672
market. I think they just relaunched

1009
01:25:39,552 --> 01:25:40,672
It's a nice website.

1010
01:25:41,052 --> 01:25:41,692
I'm on it now.

1011
01:25:42,392 --> 01:25:44,612
They've done a great job and I see a bunch of

1012
01:25:44,612 --> 01:25:46,572
marmalades

1013
01:25:46,572 --> 01:25:52,152
and jams and cakes that I imagine my wine would be in that same section.

1014
01:25:52,632 --> 01:25:55,432
So, yeah, sorry to interrupt.

1015
01:25:55,572 --> 01:25:58,872
I need to get on this and get my wine back there.

1016
01:25:59,712 --> 01:26:03,552
Yeah, so either Plebeian, Shopster, Conduit, you just go there and, you know,

1017
01:26:03,712 --> 01:26:06,572
I mean, I'm saying sign a NIP 93 event.

1018
01:26:06,892 --> 01:26:08,572
The interface will do all of that for you, right?

1019
01:26:08,632 --> 01:26:11,392
I think from your – I've never sold anything on them.

1020
01:26:11,932 --> 01:26:15,352
So I don't know what the seller experience is, but presumably you have a UI,

1021
01:26:15,352 --> 01:26:21,452
you type whatever stuff in and you click send and it'll create that nostril event and you'll get

1022
01:26:21,452 --> 01:26:27,512
listed yeah i i was really easy to set up um maybe there was a little bit of uh with the cashew i'm

1023
01:26:27,512 --> 01:26:34,932
not sure if i still have to use cashew for this but um the one funny thing was that as as always

1024
01:26:34,932 --> 01:26:41,792
it always comes back to nostril dms being weird and uh since primal is my my main go-to for just

1025
01:26:41,792 --> 01:26:46,812
browsing um i always got to keep amethyst ready and check it every once in a while because the

1026
01:26:46,812 --> 01:26:52,932
the messages about sales would always would uh come through a different dm protocol or whatever

1027
01:26:52,932 --> 01:27:01,152
yes yes because amethyst uses a slightly more secure nip 17 dms and the ones that primal and

1028
01:27:01,152 --> 01:27:08,432
and a couple of others currently support i just it's a good they're a privacy disaster um

1029
01:27:08,432 --> 01:27:17,372
but um cool okay so we have a question from bray in the chat uh who asks when's the best time of

1030
01:27:17,372 --> 01:27:24,432
year for a trip out to paonia like harvest time or the time of year the wine is being made which

1031
01:27:24,432 --> 01:27:30,172
of which of those times would be better um best time to come to paonia and uh if you're gonna

1032
01:27:30,172 --> 01:27:37,452
try my wine um and meet up with me is not harvest time because i am very busy um stomping on those

1033
01:27:37,452 --> 01:27:43,592
barrels with your feet yeah i kind of go insane every year that time of year it's hard to you know

1034
01:27:43,592 --> 01:27:48,912
it works out sometimes i've had plenty of visitors over the years but um the best time i think is

1035
01:27:48,912 --> 01:27:56,252
probably july and august because that is cherry and peach season so my town is um

1036
01:27:56,252 --> 01:28:05,432
awesome for tree fruit and farming and tons of amazing food in general um as far as production

1037
01:28:05,432 --> 01:28:09,112
of food goes, farm to table stuff.

1038
01:28:09,672 --> 01:28:16,212
So cherries start ripening in early July and then through August, maybe into September

1039
01:28:16,212 --> 01:28:16,752
is peaches.

1040
01:28:17,812 --> 01:28:22,672
And, you know, the wine is absolutely a draw and you come drink wine.

1041
01:28:22,672 --> 01:28:29,572
But the farm stuff, the amazing fresh fruit everywhere and focus on regenerative ag and

1042
01:28:29,572 --> 01:28:31,732
organic farming is very high here.

1043
01:28:31,732 --> 01:28:37,032
There's not really any non-organic farms, as far as I know.

1044
01:28:38,152 --> 01:28:40,812
So being able to experience that is awesome.

1045
01:28:41,452 --> 01:28:44,232
And, you know, it gets hot, but it's not insane.

1046
01:28:44,652 --> 01:28:45,232
We're up in the mountains.

1047
01:28:47,812 --> 01:28:48,852
All right.

1048
01:28:49,792 --> 01:28:51,032
You heard it here, Bray.

1049
01:28:51,512 --> 01:28:52,392
You know when to go.

1050
01:28:52,472 --> 01:28:56,132
In fact, I would love to make a trip out there too, Ben.

1051
01:28:56,312 --> 01:29:00,292
And maybe we could, if you're open to it, we can see if you, again,

1052
01:29:00,292 --> 01:29:08,092
It's hard to think when Bitcoins drop from $120 to $70, especially for someone like me who's living off my Bitcoin now.

1053
01:29:08,732 --> 01:29:24,232
But hopefully, if we make some kind of recovery, maybe it might be worth considering a meetup, gather some Bitcoiners, and show up at Peony Lane Vineyard.

1054
01:29:24,312 --> 01:29:24,812
What do you think?

1055
01:29:25,432 --> 01:29:26,112
Oh, absolutely.

1056
01:29:26,232 --> 01:29:26,952
That'd be really fun.

1057
01:29:26,952 --> 01:29:33,732
um there was one of those almost happened i think some personal reasons kind of made it fall through

1058
01:29:33,732 --> 01:29:39,032
for the whoever was putting it together last year um like i said i love when bitcoiners roll through

1059
01:29:39,032 --> 01:29:45,512
i love making time for it um it's it's very fun for me to enjoy my wine with with people who

1060
01:29:45,512 --> 01:29:53,132
um appreciate it and uh just because like you know my friends do but um i don't do a ton of

1061
01:29:53,132 --> 01:29:54,672
in-person tastings anymore

1062
01:29:54,672 --> 01:29:57,112
since I'm

1063
01:29:57,112 --> 01:29:59,212
all online. I really enjoy

1064
01:29:59,212 --> 01:30:01,472
that with Bitcoiners.

1065
01:30:01,672 --> 01:30:02,952
It's awesome. I'd love that.

1066
01:30:04,772 --> 01:30:05,212
Sweet.

1067
01:30:05,932 --> 01:30:07,132
Yeah. Well, let

1068
01:30:07,132 --> 01:30:09,252
the price recover a little bit. I'm waiting for

1069
01:30:09,252 --> 01:30:11,172
Satoshi. Come on, we're back at 70.

1070
01:30:11,212 --> 01:30:11,832
What are you talking about?

1071
01:30:13,612 --> 01:30:15,172
Yeah. I'm really hoping,

1072
01:30:15,292 --> 01:30:16,992
man, because this episode, like I mentioned earlier,

1073
01:30:17,112 --> 01:30:19,092
it's going to drop two

1074
01:30:19,092 --> 01:30:21,052
and a half weeks later. I hope

1075
01:30:21,052 --> 01:30:22,432
people listen to it and

1076
01:30:22,432 --> 01:30:25,012
this price conversation is just a

1077
01:30:25,012 --> 01:30:26,992
relic from a brief and painful

1078
01:30:26,992 --> 01:30:28,632
moment in Bitcoin's history, but

1079
01:30:28,632 --> 01:30:29,852
we shall see.

1080
01:30:31,472 --> 01:30:33,052
So Ben, last time...

1081
01:30:33,052 --> 01:30:34,272
Sorry, were you saying something?

1082
01:30:34,712 --> 01:30:35,672
No, no, no, go for it.

1083
01:30:36,892 --> 01:30:38,372
Last time you were here,

1084
01:30:38,732 --> 01:30:40,692
I asked you when James

1085
01:30:40,692 --> 01:30:42,732
Suckling rating

1086
01:30:42,732 --> 01:30:44,832
on your wine

1087
01:30:44,832 --> 01:30:46,632
or

1088
01:30:46,632 --> 01:30:48,732
anyone. James Suckling is just a guy

1089
01:30:48,732 --> 01:30:49,672
I happen to

1090
01:30:49,672 --> 01:30:56,172
who stays seems to be closer to mine the ones he rates higher i tend to like there's obviously

1091
01:30:56,172 --> 01:31:01,192
robert parker and a bunch of others right but and you were like that's all fiat which is absolutely

1092
01:31:01,192 --> 01:31:09,472
true by the way yeah i mean like i think there's a lot of like i blame you know it's it's more

1093
01:31:09,472 --> 01:31:14,452
complicated than this but if you're gonna like if i'm gonna meme something into existence i think

1094
01:31:14,452 --> 01:31:20,512
that robert parker destroyed the wine industry and i'm not the only person who thinks that um

1095
01:31:20,512 --> 01:31:28,052
but yeah i don't know i think it's i think it's really just in this like uh oh that's the that's

1096
01:31:28,052 --> 01:31:35,092
playing in the fiat games of the wine world and i get it like you know it's it's it's there's

1097
01:31:35,092 --> 01:31:40,512
something to be said for like oh yeah i got rated this and you don't know who the rating is but like

1098
01:31:40,512 --> 01:31:47,332
you know you think james suckling has good taste like there's nothing wrong with following what he

1099
01:31:47,332 --> 01:31:52,272
likes and generally using that as a gauge of like what you should buy because you know you have a

1100
01:31:52,272 --> 01:31:57,392
limited amount of time on earth and if you're buying a bottle of wine that and you found that

1101
01:31:57,392 --> 01:32:03,972
he likes wine that you like like that's awesome um i don't know it's just like it gives me the ick

1102
01:32:03,972 --> 01:32:08,172
to lean into the fiat wine world.

1103
01:32:08,572 --> 01:32:09,932
And maybe that's bad business

1104
01:32:09,932 --> 01:32:12,832
because there's a human element to it.

1105
01:32:12,832 --> 01:32:18,292
But something about it just kind of grosses me out.

1106
01:32:18,532 --> 01:32:20,352
I am not necessarily him,

1107
01:32:20,532 --> 01:32:22,952
just I'm kind of speaking in generalization.

1108
01:32:23,672 --> 01:32:26,052
I am going to try and start sending wine

1109
01:32:26,052 --> 01:32:30,052
to different competitions more and see how that goes.

1110
01:32:30,312 --> 01:32:32,212
From what I've heard, a lot of times you get,

1111
01:32:32,212 --> 01:32:39,312
you get the results back like after you sell out of that wine so it's like okay how useful is that

1112
01:32:39,312 --> 01:32:47,112
for a smaller winery but um i don't know i guess it's cool to get awards i get it um you know it's

1113
01:32:47,112 --> 01:32:53,732
it's all kind of a sales pitch and everything but just speaking from someone who like you know i'm a

1114
01:32:53,732 --> 01:33:01,652
small producer in a region that is on the come up but is not taken seriously um you just don't get

1115
01:33:01,652 --> 01:33:12,852
treated well um i'm just i'm tired of people not giving the wine a chance um and then seeing when

1116
01:33:12,852 --> 01:33:16,732
when they're forced to give the wine a chance because it's a blind tasting then love it

1117
01:33:16,732 --> 01:33:23,352
so uh it's just kind of disheartening to interact with that world um these days i mean it's like

1118
01:33:23,352 --> 01:33:31,332
being a big corner at a at a financial conference yeah no i i understand that aspect of it uh then

1119
01:33:31,332 --> 01:33:33,832
So maybe I'll reframe the question.

1120
01:33:34,272 --> 01:33:37,172
It's one of curation and discovery, right?

1121
01:33:37,292 --> 01:33:38,332
And in some sense,

1122
01:33:39,472 --> 01:33:41,132
it's kind of like that on Nostra too.

1123
01:33:42,932 --> 01:33:47,172
Because you show up on Nostra as a new user.

1124
01:33:47,292 --> 01:33:49,092
There's this absolute fire hose of data

1125
01:33:49,092 --> 01:34:01,266
that coming at you And you like okay how do I find what I looking for And the point is you cannot unless there someone within your network who says okay I following this person this person this person

1126
01:34:01,526 --> 01:34:02,506
I'm zapping this.

1127
01:34:02,586 --> 01:34:03,326
I'm interacting with this.

1128
01:34:03,386 --> 01:34:11,206
You have some way of seeing that and saying, okay, maybe my discovery and curation is through my web of trust that way.

1129
01:34:11,346 --> 01:34:16,166
And I face this problem, by the way, first of all, on NOSTA, which is at times it feels dead.

1130
01:34:16,246 --> 01:34:17,746
And I'm like, how do I find new accounts?

1131
01:34:17,906 --> 01:34:18,666
Well, I don't know.

1132
01:34:19,406 --> 01:34:23,306
Apparently, there are people having conversations in little silos in Nostra.

1133
01:34:23,386 --> 01:34:26,566
I would never find out about them because there's no web of trust.

1134
01:34:27,466 --> 01:34:30,806
My followers and my followers' followers don't interact with them.

1135
01:34:30,886 --> 01:34:32,606
So I never see any of that, right?

1136
01:34:32,726 --> 01:34:35,306
Similar thing, finding music, for example.

1137
01:34:36,266 --> 01:34:38,566
You have all of these RSS feeds with music.

1138
01:34:38,706 --> 01:34:40,846
There's Fountain and Wave Lake and all of that.

1139
01:34:40,846 --> 01:34:44,846
How do I find something that I'm going to like enough to put on the show?

1140
01:34:45,546 --> 01:34:46,086
I don't know.

1141
01:34:46,386 --> 01:34:48,066
There's no way of discovery.

1142
01:34:48,066 --> 01:35:00,046
So I would apply that to a similar type of thinking to wine, where there's hundreds of thousands of options, maybe even millions.

1143
01:35:01,186 --> 01:35:03,746
And life, as you said, is too short.

1144
01:35:04,566 --> 01:35:06,666
We only have a limited amount of time on earth.

1145
01:35:07,786 --> 01:35:10,186
I would say life is too short for bad wine.

1146
01:35:10,486 --> 01:35:15,386
And it gets shorter if you're having to try a lot of bad wine until you get to that good wine.

1147
01:35:15,386 --> 01:35:36,206
So you need some form of curation, someone you trust who says, someone who's taste in the specific context of wine drinking, who you trust who says, okay, yep, this is good. Try this one. I liked it. And ideally, you have more than one person who can point you in the right direction so that you don't waste your time drinking terrible wine.

1148
01:35:36,206 --> 01:35:42,966
so maybe that the the system that existed the rating system got completely fiatized

1149
01:35:42,966 --> 01:35:50,106
absolutely right that's what happens but there's got to be a better way of discovery and curation

1150
01:35:50,106 --> 01:35:57,086
of wine right yeah absolutely i mean i don't know it kind of seems like

1151
01:35:57,086 --> 01:36:06,906
it's it's hard for smaller producers um the the idea that comes to mind is like i don't know you

1152
01:36:06,906 --> 01:36:13,166
just um if you can figure out some tasting notes or figure out some generalities of what you what

1153
01:36:13,166 --> 01:36:18,166
you like putting them into uh ai and having it recommend wines to you but it's going to recommend

1154
01:36:18,166 --> 01:36:27,686
the bigger ones, um, for the most part. Um, and I don't know, man, like, I don't have a great

1155
01:36:27,686 --> 01:36:34,386
answer for you. Um, I like my saying no to it is potentially just like a stupid business decision

1156
01:36:34,386 --> 01:36:42,006
that I'm making on principle. Um, and like, you're, you're a hundred percent right that it's

1157
01:36:42,006 --> 01:36:47,866
hard to find good wine. Um, and it's hard to know what you're going to drink. Um, and it's

1158
01:36:47,866 --> 01:36:53,566
life's too short for bad wine um and for buying a bottle that you hate i hate that when i open a

1159
01:36:53,566 --> 01:37:01,706
bottle i don't like um but and it's literally killing you right yeah totally um i don't know

1160
01:37:01,706 --> 01:37:07,266
maybe maybe like like i said maybe it's just a bad business decision on my part um as like someone

1161
01:37:07,266 --> 01:37:10,946
who doesn't have to go out and find wine but that's my job to make it easy for you to find my

1162
01:37:10,946 --> 01:37:17,166
wine um it's just inner i've it just comes back to interacting with with the fiat wine world is

1163
01:37:17,166 --> 01:37:23,486
just so frustrating to me that i'm just like hey i want to be a winemaker for bitcoiners and um you

1164
01:37:23,486 --> 01:37:27,866
guys will probably all eventually try my wine or know someone who likes it and build it more from

1165
01:37:27,866 --> 01:37:33,926
the ground up uh within my community as opposed to going kind of a top-down approach like um the

1166
01:37:33,926 --> 01:37:40,746
one that you're suggesting which isn't bad or wrong it's just different well i wonder if there's a

1167
01:37:40,746 --> 01:37:45,746
nostril solution to this man and i'm going to sound like one of those guys is good he's going to try

1168
01:37:45,746 --> 01:37:47,246
and Shuhon Noster into everything.

1169
01:37:47,746 --> 01:37:50,486
But I wonder if we can crowdsource wine reviews

1170
01:37:50,486 --> 01:37:54,306
and then filter that out based on your web of trust.

1171
01:37:55,906 --> 01:37:57,306
And maybe that...

1172
01:37:57,306 --> 01:38:01,346
You know, I've got a long list of screenshotted of comments

1173
01:38:01,346 --> 01:38:02,746
that say my wife loved it.

1174
01:38:05,986 --> 01:38:06,506
Right.

1175
01:38:07,086 --> 01:38:08,786
So just make that a Noster note.

1176
01:38:09,486 --> 01:38:13,626
Get it organized somewhere in a Weinster website.

1177
01:38:13,626 --> 01:38:22,026
and maybe that's your recommendation engine for wine yeah totally i mean um just having other

1178
01:38:22,026 --> 01:38:28,066
people drink it and continuously new people trying it um and posting about it i think the most valuable

1179
01:38:28,066 --> 01:38:32,806
thing is when someone drinks my wine and likes it and posts about it is is super helpful and the

1180
01:38:32,806 --> 01:38:40,946
the bitcoin community has been super uh good at that um which has been great for me i mean as far

1181
01:38:40,946 --> 01:38:44,126
as like there's some great photographers out there i don't even have to get product photos

1182
01:38:44,126 --> 01:38:49,306
done because people just uh drink the wine take a great picture and and post it

1183
01:38:49,306 --> 01:38:57,826
you've just given me an idea ben winester i'm gonna make this happen because i'm i have a

1184
01:38:57,826 --> 01:39:03,126
company that's building web of trust stuff for nostor uh and we uh we're really building more

1185
01:39:03,126 --> 01:39:14,146
infrastructure tools but uh winester there you go do it please all right uh ben anything uh

1186
01:39:14,146 --> 01:39:21,686
anything you'd like to plug uh before we wrap this up yeah obviously i talked a lot about wine

1187
01:39:21,686 --> 01:39:27,686
today um so please try it if you're interested or ask me if you want recommendations better uh

1188
01:39:27,686 --> 01:39:34,526
flavor notes and uh pairings or whatever that you're looking for as far as questions go um

1189
01:39:34,526 --> 01:39:40,886
i'm pretty focused on nostr these days um both for that my personal account everything but also

1190
01:39:40,886 --> 01:39:45,946
building a show called soak quest uh oh yeah actually sorry i was gonna ask you about that

1191
01:39:45,946 --> 01:39:50,026
sorry if you have some time we should talk this next five ten minutes talking about that

1192
01:39:50,026 --> 01:39:56,326
yeah i got a couple minutes yeah so talk about uh soak quest man that is a show i've seen videos

1193
01:39:56,326 --> 01:40:04,326
it seems really funny it's edited it's fast moving uh tell folks about soquest yeah um

1194
01:40:04,326 --> 01:40:10,546
i don't know it's it's there's a lot of bitcoin podcasts out there and long form is tough um

1195
01:40:10,546 --> 01:40:16,586
because you find a few that you love and you know you're dedicating a ton of time to each one of

1196
01:40:16,586 --> 01:40:21,446
those so you don't have a ton of time for other stuff and it's just gets kind of old there's a lot

1197
01:40:21,446 --> 01:40:26,406
of the same guests coming over and over because that's who gets clicks. That's who gets listens.

1198
01:40:27,206 --> 01:40:31,526
They say the same thing over and over. And that's fun. I mean, I've learned a ton from all these

1199
01:40:31,526 --> 01:40:35,846
people, but there's got to be a better way to package it that just makes it a little bit more

1200
01:40:35,846 --> 01:40:42,626
approachable to the everyday person or the person who's interested in Bitcoin, but not crazy about

1201
01:40:42,626 --> 01:40:49,166
it. And so we're trying different ways. We've got one continuous show going weekly where it's an

1202
01:40:49,166 --> 01:40:54,426
interview with a bunch of fun quips going to make it a little bit more watchable as opposed to

1203
01:40:54,426 --> 01:41:00,426
listenable. We want to make it more of a show than a podcast. Short five to 10 minutes,

1204
01:41:00,806 --> 01:41:08,626
easy listening and fun. Great for YouTube. And then working on a few other things as far as

1205
01:41:08,626 --> 01:41:16,366
content goes. I mean, I think I'm going to start riffing on just short rants daily based off of

1206
01:41:16,366 --> 01:41:18,886
what's really kicking off in Bitcoin world.

1207
01:41:19,526 --> 01:41:21,786
Probably a little bit more focused on Noster that way.

1208
01:41:21,786 --> 01:41:27,046
And then we've got some cool educational videos kind of put together with

1209
01:41:27,046 --> 01:41:29,906
AI tools.

1210
01:41:30,166 --> 01:41:36,526
So just kind of built as far as like explaining specific topics in

1211
01:41:36,526 --> 01:41:41,886
educational, fun, entertaining ways.

1212
01:41:41,886 --> 01:41:50,626
um it's me and a team of four guys and um so just a great crew of people and um you know i'm doing

1213
01:41:50,626 --> 01:41:54,966
all the interviewing and um there's a lot of awesome creative work going on behind the scenes

1214
01:41:54,966 --> 01:42:00,486
but um it's been fun to build i didn't think we'd be building it building it in the bear market but

1215
01:42:00,486 --> 01:42:04,726
um we'll know if we really have something um if we get traction now

1216
01:42:04,726 --> 01:42:13,066
love it and is the is it a weekly thing the so quest yeah so we're posting our main episodes

1217
01:42:13,066 --> 01:42:21,646
weekly and um i'm posting the that's on like youtube rumble i do post it on nostr and twitter

1218
01:42:21,646 --> 01:42:29,166
um and then i'm posting the like full hour-long interview that we cut down to 10 minutes

1219
01:42:29,166 --> 01:42:32,326
on any podcast app.

1220
01:42:32,866 --> 01:42:36,026
And then we're working on a couple more,

1221
01:42:36,106 --> 01:42:38,706
like I said, a couple more types of content

1222
01:42:38,706 --> 01:42:40,866
that will go up a lot more frequently.

1223
01:42:41,226 --> 01:42:44,426
So I'll probably be posting something that I record

1224
01:42:44,426 --> 01:42:48,166
maybe every other day or so.

1225
01:42:48,306 --> 01:42:49,706
And then we've got some cool,

1226
01:42:50,486 --> 01:42:52,666
like I said, the cool educational content

1227
01:42:52,666 --> 01:42:55,246
that I don't know the frequency.

1228
01:42:55,246 --> 01:42:57,226
We're in the early stages.

1229
01:42:57,386 --> 01:42:58,526
We're trying to figure out what works

1230
01:42:58,526 --> 01:43:01,286
and the frequency, how much we can really do things

1231
01:43:01,286 --> 01:43:04,546
because none of us are making any money on this yet.

1232
01:43:04,886 --> 01:43:09,046
So how much, where's the low hanging fruit

1233
01:43:09,046 --> 01:43:11,246
to really kick ass in our skill sets,

1234
01:43:11,566 --> 01:43:14,966
explain things and educate and have fun.

1235
01:43:16,226 --> 01:43:18,806
Really, it's like, we want to be able to laugh at ourselves

1236
01:43:18,806 --> 01:43:19,426
at the end of the day

1237
01:43:19,426 --> 01:43:21,166
because we're all retarded autists

1238
01:43:21,166 --> 01:43:24,586
that are cool with Bitcoin going down 50%

1239
01:43:24,586 --> 01:43:26,626
and bragging that we didn't sell.

1240
01:43:26,886 --> 01:43:28,006
And we're all crazy.

1241
01:43:28,006 --> 01:43:38,386
so like let's lean into that love that anything else ben beyond that um that's the main thing i

1242
01:43:38,386 --> 01:43:42,466
got going on right now um help me get through a bear market help me survive so i don't have to

1243
01:43:42,466 --> 01:43:49,006
go sell my soul to the fiat wine world uh buy some wine save it up um drink it in the bull market

1244
01:43:49,006 --> 01:43:51,966
and you'll love it.

1245
01:43:52,066 --> 01:43:53,186
It'll be worth the sats.

1246
01:43:54,726 --> 01:43:55,966
It certainly will.

1247
01:43:56,626 --> 01:44:01,846
I will buy your latest batch soon, Ben.

1248
01:44:02,166 --> 01:44:04,226
I'm in pain right now a little bit.

1249
01:44:06,646 --> 01:44:09,006
This is what I'm living off.

1250
01:44:09,706 --> 01:44:12,026
But yes, I will get down to doing it.

1251
01:44:12,366 --> 01:44:15,606
And if you listening can or are in a position,

1252
01:44:15,846 --> 01:44:17,746
you actually have a fiat paycheck hitting.

1253
01:44:17,746 --> 01:44:20,626
your DCA is looking a lot better than it did

1254
01:44:20,626 --> 01:44:22,366
six months ago, I'm telling you that

1255
01:44:22,366 --> 01:44:24,486
so spread some of that love

1256
01:44:24,486 --> 01:44:26,586
in Ben's direction

1257
01:44:26,586 --> 01:44:27,826
get some wine

1258
01:44:27,826 --> 01:44:30,266
thank you Ben

1259
01:44:30,266 --> 01:44:32,386
always fun chatting with you

1260
01:44:32,386 --> 01:44:34,026
love chatting about wine

1261
01:44:34,026 --> 01:44:35,326
and

1262
01:44:35,326 --> 01:44:38,186
I actually was not kidding

1263
01:44:38,186 --> 01:44:39,326
about the

1264
01:44:39,326 --> 01:44:41,766
meet up in Colorado

1265
01:44:41,766 --> 01:44:43,046
hopefully by May

1266
01:44:43,046 --> 01:44:46,166
it'll be a lot warmer in many ways

1267
01:44:46,166 --> 01:44:54,226
so we'll maybe we can plan something for then and i'll i'll at some point i'll start a thread

1268
01:44:54,226 --> 01:44:58,706
on nostris while connecting you to the denim road guys to see if there's something there

1269
01:44:58,706 --> 01:45:04,266
right if nothing else uh you'll get to meet some cool folks on nostrum yeah absolutely i'll be

1270
01:45:04,266 --> 01:45:09,986
looking forward to it and reach out whenever you're ready awesome well thank you ben and

1271
01:45:09,986 --> 01:45:16,666
thank you to our live stream audience for listening for your lively conversation really was a lively

1272
01:45:16,666 --> 01:45:26,366
live chat today and for your zaps as well if you are listening to the recording as always notice

1273
01:45:26,366 --> 01:45:33,066
what you didn't hear today you didn't hear me reading an ad for an ai powered hr software and

1274
01:45:33,066 --> 01:45:39,666
you didn't hear me pitching recruitment platforms that goes to your resume i don't do that here on

1275
01:45:39,666 --> 01:45:41,246
the lightning-laced airwaves.

1276
01:45:41,466 --> 01:45:43,306
The only sponsor is you.

1277
01:45:43,886 --> 01:45:46,166
If you found value in this conversation,

1278
01:45:46,346 --> 01:45:48,126
if it gave you a new mental model,

1279
01:45:48,386 --> 01:45:49,726
a moment of clarity,

1280
01:45:50,046 --> 01:45:52,446
or just a respite from the noise,

1281
01:45:52,866 --> 01:45:54,766
then please consider returning the value.

1282
01:45:55,366 --> 01:45:58,006
You can stream stats as you listen on Fountain,

1283
01:45:58,346 --> 01:46:00,206
or you could become a monthly subscriber

1284
01:46:00,206 --> 01:46:02,546
to keep the signal strong.

1285
01:46:03,146 --> 01:46:05,666
But for those who want to shape the show,

1286
01:46:05,666 --> 01:46:07,566
the mic is open.

1287
01:46:07,566 --> 01:46:13,906
whether you want to ratify the sermon with your own story or rectify it with a counterpoint

1288
01:46:13,906 --> 01:46:22,746
the executive producer slot is waiting for you the minutes are open for next week until then stay

1289
01:46:22,746 --> 01:46:23,126
sovereign

1290
01:46:37,566 --> 01:46:42,646
We'll see you next time.