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Welcome to Pleb Chain Radio, a live show brought to you by Plebs for Plebs, which focuses

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on the intersection of Nostra and Bitcoin protocols.

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Join QW and Avi as they run down the weekly news and developments, breaking down the current

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thing and the future frontier with the foundation of decentralization, the builders, thinkers,

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doers, and plebs.

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All right, we are live.

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Welcome, gentle pioneers, to the Lightning Laced Airwaves. Today is Friday, the 24th of October, and it is 3.56pm Central Time, almost 5pm on the East Coast of the United States.

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At the time of recording, this is episode 134 of Plep Chain Radio, and we have a special show today.

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We're all live at Bitcoin Park in Nashville, recording in the studio.

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Avi, Avi, we have five of us.

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They haven't had harmony like that in the studio since Florida Georgia Line.

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Let me just tell you that.

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It's a sweet harmony.

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If you can picture this, everyone, we're live from different rooms because that's just how we roll.

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Very decentralized.

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But yeah, carry on, Avi.

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Yes.

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So we have Ainsley Costello.

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What up?

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Open mic.

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Hello.

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And Heather Larson joining us today.

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Hey.

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As I said, live from the studio at Bitcoin Park.

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and this show is being streamed live on zap.stream and any other Nostra client that supports streaming

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such as Amethyst, Nostra, Fountain and Primal. And a reminder folks, if you are listening to this

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not live and you're listening on Apple or Spotify, first of all, thank you for listening,

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but I would urge you to hit pause and switch over to the Fountain podcasting app where you can earn

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some stats and support the value for value revolution while you listen. And while you're

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there, if you could hit that subscribe button, we would genuinely appreciate it. Your subscription

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and support goes a long way in helping keep our mics warm and the show ad free. And finding home,

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The Prague episode is now available on IndieHub, and you can use the code PIONEERCHANE21 for 21% of the price.

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QW, you've been paying attention to Bitcoin and Noster culture in the last week.

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What have you witnessed?

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Nosterville 3.0 is coming up, Bobby.

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I don't know if you've heard of it.

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It's in Nashville, October 25th.

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That would be tomorrow.

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Some could say that it actually started today.

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Maybe this is a prequel or the pretty sambal or whatever the hell is pretty.

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But, yeah, that's the big one.

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Also, are you going to that bit?

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What's it called?

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Well, I know about Nostra Shire, the U.K.'s first Nostra Conference, 21st Street.

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It's the 21st of November, 2025.

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You know, it's funny because I read that.

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In the Euro way, they put the number, I think they put, I always read it November 21st, 2025.

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But I think they put the 21st in front of.

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Anyway, so Nostra Shai, UK's first.

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21st November.

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It makes sense if you think about it, right?

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You start with the smallest unit, which is of time and date, which is the day.

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Then you move to the month, right?

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So you put the day first, 21.

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Then you put the month, 11.

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and then you put the year.

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So in some sense it does make sense.

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But yes, that is-

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I just don't like it, Avi.

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Well, you're special, QW.

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You know, some things like, I understand metrics,

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but like something like, you know, metric versus Imperial.

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But yeah, the 21st November, 2025.

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So anyways, moving on.

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Well, by the way, let's not forget QW.

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So that Nostalgia is part of BitFest.

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That's BitFest.

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That's what I was looking for.

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And folks can get 10% off tickets if they use discount code PlebChainRadio.

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That's a scream of deal, Alvi.

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It is a deal.

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T.

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Best one out there.

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So one of the bigger things I would say that just happened this last weekend is Noster

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Valley.

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And three of us here were there.

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So maybe Heather, do you want to talk about it a little bit

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And then carry on with Mike and Ainsley

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Yeah, Mike and Ainsley and I were out there

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There was actually a spontaneous, as things happened in the Purpleverse

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A spontaneous Ainsley-Costello performance

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When we were out last Friday night

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Oh, there was a couple of it

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Yeah, a couple of guys were playing at this cidery

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And we just threw Ainsley up on stage

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Like, hey girl, grab a guitar and go

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so we just you could just do things uh so we we hung out in state college pa which is derrick ross's

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neighborhood and seth's neighborhood seth the homie from zap cooking and we had a good uh nostril

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valley all day last saturday lots of panels good mix of talk about you know i talked about content

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creators seth talked about zap cooking we had ian and mandana from next block talking about their

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billboard attention marketplace which is going to be vertical video and you know you never have to

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watch an ad again unless somebody pays you

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for it. So there were some great ideas

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that were coming out of there.

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Like Nostra Git with BudaBit

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from Dave.

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Just such great ideas.

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A good time for clubs to come together,

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see what other people are building, and just

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see folks that you wouldn't see

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otherwise. Because we had to

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go to the other side of the country, QW. We just had to

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do it. You mean the

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right side of the country, right, Heather? Oh, there

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you go. The other side.

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Because you know, QW

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and I are Nostra Phoenix so had to go to the other coast for a chance chance to meet some some clubs

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we hadn't seen in real life before that was fun and Mike was out there too I don't know if Mike

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wanted to share some impressions from Nostra Valley yeah it was great we um I was out there

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last year actually Avi and I were out there last year and it was um fantastic we had um very high

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signal a lot of really you know I don't know smart people out in the world talking to each other

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collabing a lot of brainstorming partnerships and people just working on cool stuff um we had

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arkanox out there repping repping the midwest and you know it was people came from a long ways away

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to um get out to the nostril ceo's main office oh yeah we have derrick ross we put him on the spot

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had him talk about shakespeare and five coding i think he might do that again he's going to be

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out at Nostarshire.

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Nostarshire?

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What do you call it?

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Bitfest?

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It's like multiple names.

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Nostarshire.

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Nostarshire.

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Here's the funny thing.

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We need to get one of our

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English friends to clarify this

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because, you know,

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like the source,

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when you read it,

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it should,

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it ought to be

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Worsestashire.

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But they pronounce it Wuster.

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So is Nostarshire

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pronounced Nuster?

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Paging Nick and Oscar

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from Fountain.

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We need you guys to weigh in

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yeah yeah we need we need a tiebreaker i say nostrilsire

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well and derek's on his way here too so he's gonna be here before there he's all over the place

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he's non-stop so ainsley you were there too what was that like yeah it was a lot of fun it was very

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um low-key and just very much felt like getting together with um friends and it was uh really

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informational and um I had a really good time listening in on a lot of the sides of the space

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that I am not usually privy to like I think I'm very much always kind of the guinea pig for music

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and social and whatnot so it was really cool to um to get to see like all the things that like

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Arkenox was working on and like Ian and Mandana like that was just so cool I spent so much time

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talking to um Mandana the night before um so yeah it was a great time it was just I'm and I'm always

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down to take a weekend out of Nashville because I'm here, you know, 24 seven. So yeah, I had a

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great time. And then I had to get right back to Nashville. Cause all this week I've been doing

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this pretty cool writing camp here in Nashville where I'm writing for myself and other artists

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and sync placements. And so we had to dash back. We got back to Nashville at 4am on Sunday.

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No, absolutely not. Is there a direct flight from state college to Nashville?

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I am sure that there probably is,

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but we, my team and I,

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we're just so used to driving everywhere

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because when we're doing shows,

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like my band will fly out

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and then my mom and I,

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we will nine times out of 10,

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we'll drive with a trailer of all of our stuff there.

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So it just made more sense for us to drive on this one.

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How long was the drive?

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Well, when we were going up there,

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we stopped in DC to hang out with my aunt.

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so that's about a nine hour drive

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but we've done that one a bunch of times

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and then up to state college

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there's probably another two and a half

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well it should have been three hours

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from DC to state college

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but it ended up taking us like four and a half

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with traffic and what not

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but I was actually surprised it really only took us about

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ten hours to get back

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so we left right when the event was over

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nice

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well that is certainly a long

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drive

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are you feeling good about

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You're playing tomorrow, right?

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I am, yeah.

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Well rested, ready to go for that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I do love getting to do these kind of more intimate

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and informal and stripped down performances.

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I think it's fun to show another side of myself as a performer.

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And I think Joe and I were really going to kind of lean into the

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almost like VH1 storytellers thing,

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which is, you know, that's a show that I grew up on,

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like just as a kid who loved every music show

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that I could get my hands on.

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um so i think we'll really definitely be leaning into that tomorrow um but i i like to do these

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events kind of sparingly because um you know i'm a full band sound like that is me at my core and uh

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so i'm glad to do these like every once in a while but i just i want to make it uh feel really

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special to those who are who are here yeah yeah and and joe of course is joe martin yeah friend

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of the show so mike let's talk about nosterville that's why we're all here in nashville how did

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this come about? There was the first Nostovil two years ago around this time, which was, you know,

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mostly panels. In fact, almost all panels all day and, you know, a small party at night. And then

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Nostovil 2.0 that happened last year was just a party and no panels. And I think with this one,

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we're finding a middle ground. So talk through that, Mike. How did this come about

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and what can we expect tomorrow?

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Yeah, so it is a bit of a hybrid

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for the third time around We had been planning Joe got a lot of surprises for us tomorrow He writing new music he working on a new album

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and he's in town for a few weeks, if not maybe a month,

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recording an album here in Nashville.

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So, of course, we've got to get him on stage at the park

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and do some value-for-value music.

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And it started out by planning a concert with him,

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or a showcase with him a few months ago and it's just gradually evolved into let's make it bigger

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let's do more stuff and then it's getting to be the fall and that's Nosterville season so we

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we decided to combine the concepts and it all kind of came together with some conversations

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that took place at Imagine If last month.

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And so the Bitcoin Park team and Phantom Power and Derek

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and all of us just decided this is going to be a one big day bash

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rather than a standalone music event.

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And so Joe's working on the album here in Nashville

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really was kind of the starting point of it all.

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By the way, Mike, Joe's working really hard

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because he was supposed to be on this show,

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and he very politely declined because he's a busy man.

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He's in El Paso right now.

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I hope he's not getting too big for us, but it's possible.

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I love his bigger intentions.

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You might not have many chances to catch him in a small venue,

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so get out to Nosterville tomorrow.

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That's why I'm here.

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We're a launching pad.

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We are a launching pad.

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Yeah.

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So that starts at 6 o'clock.

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We're going to do a little fireside chat with Joe.

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I'll ask him about his album

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He had some fundraising

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With Bitcoin

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For funding this album

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And the studio time that he's here for

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And then Ainsley and Joe

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Will take it from there

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And that'll be the evening

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But the Nosterville daytime

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Will be starting at 2pm

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We have four presentations

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Slash workshops

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With Manny Me

244
00:13:54,532 --> 00:13:55,752
We'll go in order

245
00:13:55,752 --> 00:13:57,592
Avi

246
00:13:57,592 --> 00:13:59,532
Yours truly will let you talk about yours.

247
00:13:59,832 --> 00:14:01,532
You're kicking it off at 3.

248
00:14:03,432 --> 00:14:07,832
Sean Yeager's doing a discussion after that.

249
00:14:08,172 --> 00:14:11,152
Manny Mee is talking about Noster for Social Apps.

250
00:14:11,392 --> 00:14:14,612
And Derek Ross is doing a Shakespeare vibe coding workshop.

251
00:14:15,152 --> 00:14:19,912
So that'll take us from 3 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

252
00:14:20,592 --> 00:14:23,392
And then, of course, the real fun part of the evening begins.

253
00:14:23,392 --> 00:14:28,492
But I believe that first presentation is not really a presentation.

254
00:14:28,692 --> 00:14:32,412
It's supposed to be a fireside chat between you and me.

255
00:14:32,532 --> 00:14:33,672
What are we going to talk about, Mike?

256
00:14:34,972 --> 00:14:45,512
Well, I think there's a really important TV show that's going on that somebody on this show needs to talk about called Finding Home.

257
00:14:47,532 --> 00:14:49,112
We'll circle back to that.

258
00:14:49,112 --> 00:14:49,512
Yeah.

259
00:14:49,512 --> 00:14:58,212
Yeah. So we have a little five-minute teaser that you're going to be showing, and then we're going to be talking about what you're up to with that.

260
00:14:58,812 --> 00:15:02,652
And I don't know. I'm excited about all this.

261
00:15:03,232 --> 00:15:07,592
What I meant was we haven't really discussed what we're going to be talking about on that panel.

262
00:15:07,592 --> 00:15:13,852
So we can wing it as we're doing it on this show.

263
00:15:14,352 --> 00:15:14,572
Yeah.

264
00:15:16,632 --> 00:15:18,052
Heather, what are you looking forward to?

265
00:15:19,512 --> 00:15:20,512
Oh, God, Joe Martin.

266
00:15:20,912 --> 00:15:23,072
I mean, that's why I YOLO'd into this trip.

267
00:15:23,252 --> 00:15:28,692
I didn't know if I'd ever get another chance to see Joe Martin play in the States anytime soon.

268
00:15:28,832 --> 00:15:30,852
He's got that album coming out next year.

269
00:15:30,972 --> 00:15:31,692
That's why he's here.

270
00:15:31,772 --> 00:15:32,892
He's recording right now.

271
00:15:33,052 --> 00:15:35,692
So definitely had to come see Joe Martin.

272
00:15:36,152 --> 00:15:40,452
Always looking forward to bothering Derek Ross.

273
00:15:40,532 --> 00:15:41,952
That's kind of what I do best.

274
00:15:42,272 --> 00:15:47,212
So tomorrow he's going to do a little vibe coding session with Shakespeare by Soapbox.

275
00:15:47,312 --> 00:15:48,112
So that's our jam.

276
00:15:48,112 --> 00:15:51,112
You know, we were always vibe coding on Hive Talk Monday nights

277
00:15:51,112 --> 00:15:53,172
But this time we're going to do it in real life

278
00:15:53,172 --> 00:15:56,252
Which will be fun because, you know, Hive Talk is great

279
00:15:56,252 --> 00:15:58,672
But sometimes we can't always see people's reactions

280
00:15:58,672 --> 00:16:02,312
Or see what people are doing when they're doing the vibe coding with Shakespeare

281
00:16:02,312 --> 00:16:05,832
So that'll give us an opportunity to see that live and in person

282
00:16:05,832 --> 00:16:07,312
And just hanging out with people

283
00:16:07,312 --> 00:16:09,512
It's actually the first time I've ever been to Nashville

284
00:16:09,512 --> 00:16:11,592
And so Ainsley's giving me the rundown

285
00:16:11,592 --> 00:16:15,852
Ainsley knows it best, obviously, being a singer-songwriter in Nashville

286
00:16:15,852 --> 00:16:19,732
The whole thing is a great vibe and I'm loving it so far.

287
00:16:20,432 --> 00:16:24,972
Bitcoin Park, this place is just lovely and great and everyone's really nice here.

288
00:16:25,092 --> 00:16:26,872
So it's already off to a great start.

289
00:16:27,492 --> 00:16:28,712
Where is the park though, Heather?

290
00:16:29,192 --> 00:16:31,072
This has been a head scratcher for me.

291
00:16:31,832 --> 00:16:33,912
I love the Bitcoin Park, but where is the park?

292
00:16:34,612 --> 00:16:35,312
This is the park.

293
00:16:35,372 --> 00:16:36,452
There's some grass outside.

294
00:16:37,172 --> 00:16:38,592
There's a little bitty lawn out there.

295
00:16:38,592 --> 00:16:46,812
no joke on our show uh with odell uh and i was you know we're talking about nosterville and i was

296
00:16:46,812 --> 00:16:50,432
thinking about the the original one and i was thinking about bitcoin park and i'm like oh i

297
00:16:50,432 --> 00:16:54,272
wonder if there's gonna be a stage at this park uh if there's gonna be all these things at this

298
00:16:54,272 --> 00:17:01,872
park and and that's when i realized it's not actually a park it was just a name that was a

299
00:17:01,872 --> 00:17:09,172
was good vibes or something. So, um, yeah, you wouldn't, anyone listening, uh, you wouldn't be

300
00:17:09,172 --> 00:17:13,372
the only one that thought Bitcoin park was just literally a patch of grass. So.

301
00:17:15,712 --> 00:17:19,552
Ainsley, what are you looking forward to? Obviously you're, you're playing a small set.

302
00:17:19,852 --> 00:17:23,912
Yeah, absolutely. I think I am always looking forward to sharing the stage with Joe Martin.

303
00:17:23,912 --> 00:17:29,272
Again, the last time I got to do that was, um, over a year ago at, uh, the Bitcoin conference

304
00:17:29,272 --> 00:17:31,132
when it was here in Nashville, Joe and I,

305
00:17:31,192 --> 00:17:33,292
we had a couple of shows that week.

306
00:17:33,292 --> 00:17:37,132
And so a couple of times we got to get up

307
00:17:37,132 --> 00:17:38,332
and sing a couple songs together.

308
00:17:38,432 --> 00:17:39,392
So I'm excited for that.

309
00:17:39,652 --> 00:17:41,632
And yeah, I mean, unfortunately,

310
00:17:41,632 --> 00:17:44,372
I'm not going to be able to be here the whole day like Joe.

311
00:17:44,532 --> 00:17:47,592
I have some songwriter-y Nashville things going on

312
00:17:47,592 --> 00:17:49,532
in the morning that I have to attend.

313
00:17:49,672 --> 00:17:51,112
But I'm really just looking forward

314
00:17:51,112 --> 00:17:52,332
to getting together with everybody

315
00:17:52,332 --> 00:17:54,752
and maybe playing a new song or two.

316
00:17:55,052 --> 00:17:55,392
Who knows?

317
00:17:56,432 --> 00:17:56,832
Nice.

318
00:17:56,832 --> 00:18:05,252
And yeah, I saw you and Joe perform the last, that was at the Vinyl Lounge, right?

319
00:18:05,392 --> 00:18:05,692
Yeah.

320
00:18:05,912 --> 00:18:09,612
So we had a show together last year at the Vinyl Lounge.

321
00:18:09,752 --> 00:18:15,832
It was Joe, me, Just Loud, and then a couple of other bands that were on the bill as well.

322
00:18:15,932 --> 00:18:18,152
And so Joe and I got up and did a couple songs together.

323
00:18:18,152 --> 00:18:22,332
And then a couple of days later, we did the same thing with Phantom Power,

324
00:18:22,332 --> 00:18:24,072
put on the Bands at Bitcoin stage

325
00:18:24,072 --> 00:18:27,152
at the Embassy Suites across from the convention center.

326
00:18:27,512 --> 00:18:28,952
And the last day was just,

327
00:18:29,332 --> 00:18:31,192
I mean, there was three back-to-back days

328
00:18:31,192 --> 00:18:32,012
like full of music,

329
00:18:32,152 --> 00:18:34,512
but the last day, Joe kind of closed it out.

330
00:18:34,552 --> 00:18:36,652
And so we got up and did a couple of songs together then too.

331
00:18:38,432 --> 00:18:39,972
Looking forward to it, for sure.

332
00:18:41,972 --> 00:18:44,972
So Mike, what's new in the,

333
00:18:45,632 --> 00:18:48,132
obviously you've been working on Nosterville,

334
00:18:48,872 --> 00:18:51,452
but outside of Nosterville, what's new?

335
00:18:51,452 --> 00:18:54,012
You've been since it's been ages since you've been on the show, right?

336
00:18:54,072 --> 00:18:54,532
What is it?

337
00:18:54,552 --> 00:18:55,252
Three weeks now.

338
00:18:59,252 --> 00:19:13,672
Yeah, it's been a it's been a real fun and busy 2025 between the conferences, the Toonster shows, Noster Valley last week, Nosterville this week.

339
00:19:13,672 --> 00:19:17,672
and looking forward to

340
00:19:18,192 --> 00:19:21,732
to planning out

341
00:19:21,732 --> 00:19:23,552
a lot of these big events in 2026

342
00:19:23,552 --> 00:19:25,612
there's a lot of fun

343
00:19:25,612 --> 00:19:27,492
conversations going on here at the park

344
00:19:27,492 --> 00:19:29,612
about music

345
00:19:29,612 --> 00:19:31,232
activations and

346
00:19:31,232 --> 00:19:32,912
value for value

347
00:19:32,912 --> 00:19:34,912
creator economy

348
00:19:34,912 --> 00:19:36,892
ideas here especially

349
00:19:36,892 --> 00:19:39,172
last week at Noster Valley

350
00:19:39,172 --> 00:19:41,832
and it's already starting here in Nashville

351
00:19:41,832 --> 00:19:42,412
so

352
00:19:42,412 --> 00:19:48,912
So I don't have any official announcements to break here on the show,

353
00:19:49,032 --> 00:19:53,332
but it's lively and it's exciting and such a great community here.

354
00:19:54,292 --> 00:19:58,012
What surprised you the most doing all these shows over time?

355
00:19:58,312 --> 00:20:01,092
Because it's like a year and a half now, I feel like.

356
00:20:01,092 --> 00:20:01,732
What was it?

357
00:20:02,372 --> 00:20:04,092
December 2023.

358
00:20:05,892 --> 00:20:08,292
So, yeah, I mean, we're almost two years.

359
00:20:09,152 --> 00:20:09,312
Yeah.

360
00:20:09,312 --> 00:20:16,832
I announced Toonstir in Austrasia, which was like two years ago this week.

361
00:20:18,732 --> 00:20:19,672
That's crazy.

362
00:20:19,832 --> 00:20:24,692
It feels like yesterday and also an eternity ago because so much has happened.

363
00:20:26,032 --> 00:20:30,112
Were you on stage there with Sam?

364
00:20:30,552 --> 00:20:31,632
Sam and Oscar.

365
00:20:32,152 --> 00:20:33,632
Dude, shout out to Sam, by the way.

366
00:20:33,712 --> 00:20:35,792
He was on Jimmy Fallon.

367
00:20:36,292 --> 00:20:37,452
Yeah, that's right.

368
00:20:37,452 --> 00:20:37,552
That's right.

369
00:20:37,552 --> 00:20:45,532
and their uh their their format the man the the song um holy roller is like number one on the

370
00:20:45,532 --> 00:20:52,892
alternate uh spotify alternative spotify type of thing it's a great song so much they're so

371
00:20:52,892 --> 00:20:58,872
incredible yeah so i mean it's just crazy to see someone after 20 years uh come out with an album

372
00:20:58,872 --> 00:21:05,172
and all of a sudden the energy uh there's the four shows they they announced to sold out it's

373
00:21:05,172 --> 00:21:07,812
And then now they have a whole tour for a new album.

374
00:21:07,992 --> 00:21:10,752
It's like, that's pretty nuts, man.

375
00:21:11,392 --> 00:21:15,032
Again, we're launching pad here at PubChain Radio.

376
00:21:16,932 --> 00:21:18,932
And they leave us in the dust, QW.

377
00:21:19,432 --> 00:21:19,872
That's what happened.

378
00:21:19,872 --> 00:21:25,692
And especially later, too, if you do an hour and a half with Sam just shooting the shit, then he really takes off.

379
00:21:25,912 --> 00:21:27,052
And I haven't seen him since.

380
00:21:28,412 --> 00:21:28,972
He's a busy guy.

381
00:21:28,972 --> 00:21:30,892
That has been so fun to watch.

382
00:21:30,892 --> 00:21:33,252
and I mean I'm seeing him

383
00:21:33,252 --> 00:21:35,672
pop up in all of my

384
00:21:35,672 --> 00:21:37,252
traditional music circles

385
00:21:37,252 --> 00:21:38,032
and

386
00:21:38,032 --> 00:21:40,832
artists that we've booked

387
00:21:40,832 --> 00:21:43,532
in the Twin Cities

388
00:21:43,532 --> 00:21:45,652
and sold out

389
00:21:45,652 --> 00:21:47,612
our rooms are on the bill of this tour

390
00:21:47,612 --> 00:21:48,812
that he's headlining

391
00:21:48,812 --> 00:21:50,132
it's incredible

392
00:21:50,132 --> 00:21:53,492
and I can't wait, he's going to be in the Midwest

393
00:21:53,492 --> 00:21:55,672
and hopefully playing one of our

394
00:21:55,672 --> 00:21:56,872
he

395
00:21:56,872 --> 00:21:59,712
is going to be the one to have to tell you that

396
00:21:59,712 --> 00:22:05,292
I see how it is

397
00:22:05,292 --> 00:22:06,172
We're talking

398
00:22:06,172 --> 00:22:09,612
You got someone to orange pill

399
00:22:09,612 --> 00:22:11,732
Other people with when he's there

400
00:22:11,732 --> 00:22:14,412
I know I won't be the crazy guy

401
00:22:14,412 --> 00:22:15,352
On an island there

402
00:22:15,352 --> 00:22:17,672
You could corner someone

403
00:22:17,672 --> 00:22:21,852
But it's been so fun

404
00:22:21,852 --> 00:22:23,492
It was surreal watching

405
00:22:23,492 --> 00:22:25,732
Fallon

406
00:22:25,732 --> 00:22:27,812
And it happened to be the Taylor Swift

407
00:22:27,812 --> 00:22:29,052
Night when she had

408
00:22:29,052 --> 00:22:36,592
she was the guest and just funny to think that i could have cared less about that musician on the

409
00:22:36,592 --> 00:22:42,552
show i just had to wait until the format came up that's true like well can we cut to the music

410
00:22:42,552 --> 00:22:48,972
section here this is enough of taylor swift i saw the format reunion show in phoenix veterans

411
00:22:48,972 --> 00:22:56,752
memorial coliseum and lightning store played in a lightning storm so it was a particular brand of

412
00:22:56,752 --> 00:23:03,052
magic but a sold out show absolutely insane uh an entire coliseum of people who knew every word

413
00:23:03,052 --> 00:23:10,072
to every song it was just so high vibe uh i can't i can't wait to see him again and that that is the

414
00:23:10,072 --> 00:23:16,152
original uh the madhouse on mcdowell is where the arena was where the old sons played that was the

415
00:23:16,152 --> 00:23:32,704
original purple palace so well you know there was a little bit of purple and purple and orange merch was handed out of course That said Madhouse on McDowell in the format 25th reunion show It like a terrible towel but it was purple and orange though

416
00:23:32,884 --> 00:23:36,624
So it was one of those subtle things that if you know, you know.

417
00:23:37,164 --> 00:23:38,884
So Ainsley, you know where to take your tour.

418
00:23:39,464 --> 00:23:40,664
There is a purple palace.

419
00:23:41,044 --> 00:23:42,384
I'm working on it, I promise.

420
00:23:45,684 --> 00:23:48,704
So Ainsley, when was the last time you were on the show?

421
00:23:48,704 --> 00:23:52,324
Was that right before your first Valley for Valley concert with Mike?

422
00:23:52,344 --> 00:23:53,304
I'm fairly certain.

423
00:23:53,404 --> 00:23:55,724
I think it was when I was in Minneapolis,

424
00:23:56,204 --> 00:23:59,044
like the day or so before the first Av show, yeah.

425
00:23:59,184 --> 00:24:01,784
So that was December 2023, almost two years ago.

426
00:24:01,784 --> 00:24:02,224
Almost two years ago, yeah.

427
00:24:02,304 --> 00:24:04,504
So what's happened to your career since then?

428
00:24:05,404 --> 00:24:07,704
Yeah, I mean, I released an album.

429
00:24:08,384 --> 00:24:10,584
When we did the first Avenue show,

430
00:24:10,664 --> 00:24:13,604
that album was basically pretty much done,

431
00:24:14,124 --> 00:24:17,624
but because the whole Bitcoin alternate universe thing

432
00:24:17,624 --> 00:24:23,644
kind of just fell into my lap. It really made me rethink some, some things about how to release

433
00:24:23,644 --> 00:24:28,064
music and what release strategies look like. And so I finished up that album, I put it out,

434
00:24:28,144 --> 00:24:34,524
um, and I've, I've gotten to play, um, some other incredibly legendary venues, um, since then,

435
00:24:34,524 --> 00:24:39,664
um, that, you know, aren't really affiliated with the Bitcoin space, but I'm always going to be

436
00:24:39,664 --> 00:24:44,264
grateful to open mic for, um, letting me come do my first ticketed show at first out of, cause

437
00:24:44,264 --> 00:24:49,564
that definitely gave me some bargaining power to go back and play when I was in Seattle.

438
00:24:50,464 --> 00:24:56,084
This July, I got to go back for the first time since I'd moved to Nashville from there. And I

439
00:24:56,084 --> 00:25:00,924
got to play one of my all time like dream bucket list venues that I remember when that venue opened

440
00:25:00,924 --> 00:25:05,864
when I was in middle school, the Spanish ballroom at McMinimins. And I just had always said to

441
00:25:05,864 --> 00:25:09,904
myself, you're going to play there one day, you're going to play there one day. And we were able to

442
00:25:09,904 --> 00:25:14,684
say, oh yeah, I mean, she's played at First Avenue, 7th Street Entry. She's played at Antone's

443
00:25:14,684 --> 00:25:20,364
Nightclub. And that was definitely helpful when trying to sway the Spanish ballroom people to

444
00:25:20,364 --> 00:25:26,244
let me come and crash their beautiful venue for a night. So yeah, I mean, I've put out an album.

445
00:25:26,584 --> 00:25:30,304
I've basically written another one that I'm getting ready to go record in the next couple

446
00:25:30,304 --> 00:25:38,844
of weeks. And I've, yeah, just continued to educate myself on how the intersection of

447
00:25:38,844 --> 00:25:45,924
the music industry, the very, like the currently very broken music industry. And, um, Bitcoin is

448
00:25:45,924 --> 00:25:51,804
really a great thing. Um, and, uh, and yeah, I mean, I've just kind of continued learning and

449
00:25:51,804 --> 00:25:58,084
continued being open to any possibility that comes my way in any opportunity. Um, so yeah,

450
00:25:58,084 --> 00:26:02,884
it's been a really cool two years. So, you know, there's, there's the music itself and then there's

451
00:26:02,884 --> 00:26:06,704
everything around it and the operations, and that's where Bitcoin comes in, but let's just

452
00:26:06,704 --> 00:26:11,084
talk about the music itself yeah do you find have you found that in the last two years you

453
00:26:11,084 --> 00:26:17,144
what what has your evolution been been like as a musician are you are you still playing the same

454
00:26:17,144 --> 00:26:23,284
genre do you feel like you you've improved as a vocalist as an instrumentalist yeah absolutely I

455
00:26:23,284 --> 00:26:28,864
mean I think my genre it's funny that we're having this conversation now because um I was just telling

456
00:26:28,864 --> 00:26:33,904
Heather um before we started um so I've reached out to one of my like favorite producers I've

457
00:26:33,904 --> 00:26:38,244
worked with and um we're you know in the beginning stages of starting to plan out what um my next

458
00:26:38,244 --> 00:26:43,084
album is going to look like um and I I you know I sent him a couple of reference playlists of what

459
00:26:43,084 --> 00:26:48,284
I think this next record is going to sound like and then my overall reference playlist um that

460
00:26:48,284 --> 00:26:51,564
I've had for the past two and a half years that hasn't really changed that's full of like

461
00:26:51,564 --> 00:27:00,484
Paramore um Bank Meena a little bit of Carly Rae Jepsen like my my ideal image and my ideal sound

462
00:27:00,484 --> 00:27:06,404
that I've had in my head has not really changed, but I think the evolution, um, comes from

463
00:27:06,404 --> 00:27:11,244
continuing to write music and continuing to put out music. And it's, it's kind of this, like,

464
00:27:11,424 --> 00:27:16,364
I kind of look at it as it's this, this lighthouse in the distance that you're never really going to

465
00:27:16,364 --> 00:27:20,944
reach, but it's not, it's not a sad thing. It's just, you're, you're constantly swimming and

466
00:27:20,944 --> 00:27:24,944
you're constantly trying to get better. And it's, it's the climb by Miley Cyrus. There's always

467
00:27:24,944 --> 00:27:29,184
going to be another mountain. I'm always going to make it move uphill battle. Sometimes we're

468
00:27:29,184 --> 00:27:33,484
gonna have to lose like it's it's just one of those things that like you're never like I don't

469
00:27:33,484 --> 00:27:38,724
know if you're ever gonna um really get to a place and be like oh well I feel like this and I feel

470
00:27:38,724 --> 00:27:42,964
like I've become the vocalist I want to be or I've become the songwriter I want to be it's a

471
00:27:42,964 --> 00:27:49,764
constant like continuing to push yourself um and I think that's definitely what I've um been doing

472
00:27:49,764 --> 00:27:53,964
the past couple of years you know I say a lot um and this is it this sounds kind of bad but I

473
00:27:53,964 --> 00:27:58,264
promise it's not like I've gotten very comfortable with being uncomfortable and the sense of like

474
00:27:58,264 --> 00:28:03,284
continuing to challenge myself with the songs I'm writing in the rooms that I'm putting myself in.

475
00:28:03,464 --> 00:28:07,944
Because I think if you're comfortable, you're not growing. And that's good for me because I

476
00:28:07,944 --> 00:28:13,044
haven't been comfortable since I moved to Nashville. So I think it's been a fun journey

477
00:28:13,044 --> 00:28:18,584
of continuing to find what my sound is and continuing to hone in on the messages that I

478
00:28:18,584 --> 00:28:23,884
want to write and that I wish that I heard on the radio when I was growing up. So yeah.

479
00:28:23,884 --> 00:28:30,804
you know we were talking about grunge before we started recording do you find that because one of

480
00:28:30,804 --> 00:28:38,044
the that sort of music seems to be on its way out or at least it's not as prominent as it used to be

481
00:28:38,044 --> 00:28:43,124
back then do you find you incorporate those elements into your music yeah I mean it's actually

482
00:28:43,124 --> 00:28:48,304
pretty ironic one of the things that I say about my musical evolution since moving to Nashville is

483
00:28:48,304 --> 00:28:55,824
that. So when I was, um, 15 living in Seattle, um, you know, so X-Less, which is my record that

484
00:28:55,824 --> 00:29:00,004
came out in May, you know, I say that it's my first album. Uh, it's kind of a lie though. Um,

485
00:29:00,004 --> 00:29:03,684
so I put out a record when I was 15 called, you know, I am, and those were all songs that I was

486
00:29:03,684 --> 00:29:07,844
writing like late middle school, early high school, um, kind of just showing myself that I

487
00:29:07,844 --> 00:29:12,544
could write songs and that I had the stamina to make an album. Um, but when I was in Seattle,

488
00:29:12,544 --> 00:29:16,424
I was making a country record, a pop country record, because that was a novelty there. That

489
00:29:16,424 --> 00:29:19,924
wasn't something that a lot of people were doing. And I was like, okay, cool. This makes me stand

490
00:29:19,924 --> 00:29:24,424
out. And then I got to Nashville and everybody's doing country. And I was like, oh no, this doesn't

491
00:29:24,424 --> 00:29:29,104
make me different, different anymore. So geographically I did this weird kind of musical

492
00:29:29,104 --> 00:29:33,664
shift where right now I'm making the music that you would have thought that I would make in Seattle.

493
00:29:33,844 --> 00:29:38,224
And when I lived in Seattle, I was making the music that you would think I should be making

494
00:29:38,224 --> 00:29:43,504
here. So it's, it's, it's been, uh, it's, it's been a little bit of an interesting kind of,

495
00:29:43,504 --> 00:29:49,884
you know flip-flop of genres for me but um yeah I'm still very inspired by um you know the grunge

496
00:29:49,884 --> 00:29:55,884
scene and um you know that genre of music I think it's it might like I feel like it might look like

497
00:29:55,884 --> 00:30:02,424
it's on its way out but there are a lot of like really cool um like alt even salt I've seen that

498
00:30:02,424 --> 00:30:11,144
um descriptor used as like a really kind of niche um you know genre defining word um so I think it's

499
00:30:11,144 --> 00:30:15,804
still alive and well it's kind of just it's it's bubbling and it's doing its own thing uh here for

500
00:30:15,804 --> 00:30:24,024
a minute but yeah i'm still very inspired by that music that's great mike uh let's talk about i mean

501
00:30:24,024 --> 00:30:30,724
so ainsley just mentioned salt and and and these uh musical genres that are bubbling up

502
00:30:30,724 --> 00:30:39,004
potentially right one of the biggest issues is discoverability because we're so saturated with

503
00:30:39,004 --> 00:30:45,924
music from everywhere. How do you find the music that resonates with you as a listener?

504
00:30:47,904 --> 00:30:53,904
And I guess, how does Nordstrom Web of Trust potentially help with something like that,

505
00:30:53,904 --> 00:30:57,344
that discoverability of the music that means something to you?

506
00:30:59,124 --> 00:31:07,104
Well, yeah, that's a loaded, complex one where the centralized platforms that we all love to

507
00:31:07,104 --> 00:31:14,084
hate are providing a lot of service around, you know, discoverability and they're, they're using

508
00:31:14,084 --> 00:31:21,944
the algos to try to, you know, either force you into discovering something that, you know, guide

509
00:31:21,944 --> 00:31:28,324
you to discovering something specific or learning about you and pointing you into a direction of

510
00:31:28,324 --> 00:31:33,244
things that they think you might like. Um, and that's what we need to really focus on in this

511
00:31:33,244 --> 00:31:43,884
area is you use the term web of trust that I think that verifiability, that authenticity,

512
00:31:44,684 --> 00:31:51,584
that that Noster and the tech that sits underneath Noster and Bitcoin.

513
00:31:54,584 --> 00:32:02,404
I think that that is going to have a key role in identifying, identifying who these artists

514
00:32:02,404 --> 00:32:09,383
are and helping us connect, connect their work to the artist, to, to other things that we like,

515
00:32:09,383 --> 00:32:14,364
but we have to develop some, some tools to make it easier to find, like, where, where do you find

516
00:32:14,364 --> 00:32:20,864
the next Ainsley and Joe Martin who are, you know, doing the work in this space, but also

517
00:32:20,864 --> 00:32:29,264
out in the, you know, the fiat music areas, because we're all, you know, having to navigate

518
00:32:29,264 --> 00:32:39,024
the traditional music space as well as pursuing our efforts here and spreading all of that

519
00:32:39,024 --> 00:32:40,383
into Nostra and Bitcoin.

520
00:32:41,624 --> 00:32:46,964
But discoverability really is the trick because when we're doing Toonster shows and we're

521
00:32:46,964 --> 00:32:54,204
signing people up to Fountain and Wave Lake, the number one thing that matters most is

522
00:32:54,204 --> 00:32:56,464
are these people getting results, right?

523
00:32:56,464 --> 00:33:07,864
When they get into this new world that's totally foreign to them, are they going to see a little bit of that revenue that we talk about?

524
00:33:07,944 --> 00:33:09,124
Are they going to get some zaps?

525
00:33:10,704 --> 00:33:19,964
I think it was even yesterday or just the day before, a very prominent artist in Minnesota just sent me a text message saying,

526
00:33:19,964 --> 00:33:23,424
hey, I just dropped a new instrumental EP.

527
00:33:24,904 --> 00:33:28,024
And he put it up on Wavelike and texted me

528
00:33:28,024 --> 00:33:30,064
and wanted me to share it out with the group.

529
00:33:30,504 --> 00:33:33,784
And he's pumped about the technology

530
00:33:33,784 --> 00:33:36,964
and he thinks it's a really awesome ethos.

531
00:33:37,124 --> 00:33:39,944
But I think most people won't be doing that

532
00:33:39,944 --> 00:33:41,284
if they do it a couple times

533
00:33:41,284 --> 00:33:43,044
and they're not seeing any results.

534
00:33:43,644 --> 00:33:47,383
So the discoverability and then the promotion

535
00:33:47,383 --> 00:33:53,584
of our crazy nostrich plebs to promote it and get out and support

536
00:33:53,584 --> 00:33:58,944
and be deliberate with that to ensure that these people are getting results?

537
00:34:00,944 --> 00:34:02,744
I think one thing's for sure, Mike.

538
00:34:03,284 --> 00:34:06,684
Discoverability is not going to change in any meaningful way

539
00:34:06,684 --> 00:34:10,304
if we're stuck on centralized fiat platforms

540
00:34:10,304 --> 00:34:13,624
because there will be a singular algorithm that's controlled

541
00:34:13,624 --> 00:34:15,644
by that centralized entity.

542
00:34:15,644 --> 00:34:19,104
that's going to make these recommendations for you.

543
00:34:20,244 --> 00:34:23,624
And honestly, something like Nostra, in my mind,

544
00:34:23,744 --> 00:34:25,484
is the only answer to it.

545
00:34:25,944 --> 00:34:27,024
And the reason that is,

546
00:34:27,544 --> 00:34:30,383
with a web of trust-based solution,

547
00:34:31,124 --> 00:34:35,244
you have a personalized view of recommendations.

548
00:34:35,764 --> 00:34:37,344
Or you can create that for yourself.

549
00:34:37,604 --> 00:34:41,184
There's someone in your circle whom you trust

550
00:34:41,184 --> 00:34:44,644
and they've liked certain kind of music.

551
00:34:44,644 --> 00:34:48,064
and then that pops up on your feed,

552
00:34:48,124 --> 00:34:50,944
saying, look, someone whose musical opinion

553
00:34:50,944 --> 00:34:53,444
I value above someone else,

554
00:34:53,544 --> 00:34:55,564
they've liked this music, maybe I'll give it a try.

555
00:34:55,924 --> 00:34:58,464
That opens up the doors to discoverability

556
00:34:58,464 --> 00:35:00,664
because it's from your perspective,

557
00:35:00,844 --> 00:35:03,264
not a company or a platform telling you,

558
00:35:03,804 --> 00:35:15,275
hey you might like this You through your network being able to see what the people you follow and who they follow what they listening to I think that actually solves the problem

559
00:35:15,356 --> 00:35:16,856
But there's the other side of the problem,

560
00:35:17,015 --> 00:35:20,035
which is the musicians need to be on Noster first.

561
00:35:22,876 --> 00:35:24,215
Discoverability will be solved

562
00:35:24,215 --> 00:35:27,755
through a meaningful web of trust layer that's built.

563
00:35:27,896 --> 00:35:29,735
But how do we get them there?

564
00:35:29,795 --> 00:35:32,436
I think that, to me, is the harder problem to solve.

565
00:35:32,436 --> 00:35:37,876
yeah it really is it really is chicken or the egg in a lot of ways because the

566
00:35:37,876 --> 00:35:46,655
you know the artist like laser beat comes on nobody knows who he is um i can i can talk about

567
00:35:46,655 --> 00:35:52,175
how i've been going to his shows for 20 years and they sell out you know sell 10 000 tickets a

568
00:35:52,175 --> 00:36:00,495
weekend and they're great um but getting that out into everybody's feeds and and having you know

569
00:36:00,495 --> 00:36:02,095
It's a whole other story.

570
00:36:02,095 --> 00:36:12,696
So having that, is it the artists coming in and bringing their fans,

571
00:36:12,775 --> 00:36:17,135
or is it our fans bringing the economy that attracts the artists?

572
00:36:17,535 --> 00:36:24,595
It's got to be some of both, because I think it really doesn't matter as much

573
00:36:24,595 --> 00:36:27,835
until you get a situation.

574
00:36:27,835 --> 00:36:38,175
Here's an example of a Toonstir event that I did with the Daniel and Manny, me, and Tatum out in Wyoming this summer.

575
00:36:38,535 --> 00:36:39,936
It was called WhatFest.

576
00:36:40,936 --> 00:36:44,936
And the organizers were really into everything.

577
00:36:45,115 --> 00:36:47,396
They were just eating up everything that we were talking about.

578
00:36:47,635 --> 00:36:53,356
All of the ethos were aligned, and they wanted to hear more about Noster and Lightning and all of it.

579
00:36:53,356 --> 00:37:06,315
And so the organizers of the event were on stage over this multiple-day festival introducing the various bands, and they had it actually broadcasting on Wyoming Public Radio.

580
00:37:06,956 --> 00:37:11,495
And they were talking about it on stage introducing the other bands.

581
00:37:12,535 --> 00:37:18,396
And so that's an opportunity where we're not just having these private one-on-one.

582
00:37:18,456 --> 00:37:19,755
I call it hand-to-hand combat.

583
00:37:19,755 --> 00:37:23,916
it's actually somebody with the microphone on stage saying,

584
00:37:24,095 --> 00:37:28,795
hey, if you like what you see here, this is how you should go support us.

585
00:37:29,135 --> 00:37:36,515
And having them direct their, quote, normie fans to go choose this method of supporting us

586
00:37:36,515 --> 00:37:40,655
rather than, you know, it's exactly what you'll say on the intro is,

587
00:37:41,135 --> 00:37:43,215
thanks for listening if you're on Apple or Spotify,

588
00:37:43,475 --> 00:37:46,675
but please join us on the Value for Value fountain apps.

589
00:37:46,675 --> 00:37:55,356
and if the artists are willing to do that and say that to their normal fans who are not already in

590
00:37:55,356 --> 00:38:00,795
this community that has potential to really hit the you know hit the flywheel effect

591
00:38:00,795 --> 00:38:07,775
qw we're back at our favorite chicken and egg we were talking about this with merchant adoption

592
00:38:07,775 --> 00:38:12,555
as well right you have much it's it's like a theme every three shows every three shows

593
00:38:12,555 --> 00:38:14,575
I mean, I'll just give an example.

594
00:38:15,456 --> 00:38:17,255
We're ostriches for a reason, right?

595
00:38:19,315 --> 00:38:20,255
Flightless birds.

596
00:38:23,196 --> 00:38:24,356
No, but...

597
00:38:24,356 --> 00:38:26,055
We could run really fast though, Avi.

598
00:38:26,696 --> 00:38:28,815
If you just find the right cliff, you know.

599
00:38:29,175 --> 00:38:29,535
Right.

600
00:38:30,315 --> 00:38:32,975
But just to refresh some memories here,

601
00:38:33,975 --> 00:38:36,396
I think this was the BTC map,

602
00:38:36,456 --> 00:38:38,595
one of the BTC map episodes we were talking about.

603
00:38:39,196 --> 00:38:40,815
And there was the...

604
00:38:40,815 --> 00:38:42,235
We're talking about merchant adoption

605
00:38:42,235 --> 00:38:46,255
and you go to any merchant restaurant cafe

606
00:38:46,255 --> 00:38:48,575
and you say, hey, why aren't you accepting Bitcoin?

607
00:38:49,295 --> 00:38:51,535
And they say, well, there's no one to pay in Bitcoin.

608
00:38:51,715 --> 00:38:52,515
No one wants to pay in Bitcoin.

609
00:38:52,595 --> 00:38:53,735
And then you go to the people and say,

610
00:38:53,795 --> 00:38:55,215
hey, why aren't you paying in Bitcoin?

611
00:38:55,436 --> 00:38:57,235
Well, no one accepts Bitcoin, right?

612
00:38:57,735 --> 00:39:00,015
Do you remember the other chicken and egg

613
00:39:00,015 --> 00:39:00,896
that came out recently?

614
00:39:01,035 --> 00:39:02,275
I'll be slipping my mind right now,

615
00:39:02,315 --> 00:39:04,615
but that one comes to mind, right?

616
00:39:04,615 --> 00:39:05,655
The merchant adoption one.

617
00:39:05,775 --> 00:39:08,515
And the solution is you just hit the merchant's heart, right?

618
00:39:08,515 --> 00:39:10,655
You just get them adopting and then the people will come.

619
00:39:10,655 --> 00:39:14,696
So I wonder if there's a similar solution here to this type of chicken and egg.

620
00:39:14,735 --> 00:39:16,135
Who is the merchant in this equation?

621
00:39:17,535 --> 00:39:18,555
It's the fans.

622
00:39:20,595 --> 00:39:21,615
Yeah, yeah.

623
00:39:22,075 --> 00:39:25,335
But I think we've talked about like open mic.

624
00:39:25,416 --> 00:39:27,075
I think we actually had this discussion.

625
00:39:28,035 --> 00:39:34,215
We're mentioning it really needs to be the actual artist who, you know,

626
00:39:34,295 --> 00:39:39,035
emails everybody and says, hey, we're doing this event, you know,

627
00:39:39,035 --> 00:39:41,995
and kind of drives that way.

628
00:39:42,135 --> 00:39:43,655
Well, that's one of the ways, I suppose.

629
00:39:44,476 --> 00:39:46,396
But it just has to be more, I don't know.

630
00:39:46,535 --> 00:39:48,635
I'm really hoping like the square terminals

631
00:39:48,635 --> 00:39:50,835
where you have the option to buy Bitcoin

632
00:39:50,835 --> 00:39:52,896
or spend Bitcoin through the terminals.

633
00:39:53,795 --> 00:39:56,335
That's only going to work if people want to spend it that way too.

634
00:39:56,555 --> 00:39:59,815
So it's like you have, we can bring you to the water,

635
00:39:59,936 --> 00:40:01,476
but you're going to drink it type of thing.

636
00:40:01,775 --> 00:40:03,976
It's like, it's that human nature.

637
00:40:04,295 --> 00:40:05,476
How do you crack that?

638
00:40:05,476 --> 00:40:08,155
I mean, you got to have, I don't know.

639
00:40:08,155 --> 00:40:12,575
I mean, Nostro Adoption helps because it normalizes all of this.

640
00:40:13,135 --> 00:40:14,035
Zapping is easy.

641
00:40:15,195 --> 00:40:16,575
Zap the things you want.

642
00:40:17,575 --> 00:40:22,755
And maybe that web of trust grows and it's just a perfect harmony.

643
00:40:23,015 --> 00:40:29,515
But it's always the chicken and egg, the egg and the ostrich.

644
00:40:29,515 --> 00:40:34,356
Heather you had

645
00:40:34,356 --> 00:40:36,436
or have maybe

646
00:40:36,436 --> 00:40:38,416
a show called Radio Detox

647
00:40:38,416 --> 00:40:40,476
where you talk to different

648
00:40:40,476 --> 00:40:41,175
musicians

649
00:40:41,175 --> 00:40:44,095
right it's mostly musicians right

650
00:40:44,095 --> 00:40:46,295
yeah mostly musicians

651
00:40:46,295 --> 00:40:48,195
builders people building on Noster

652
00:40:48,195 --> 00:40:50,396
there's been about 11

653
00:40:50,396 --> 00:40:52,356
episodes and I got busy this year with

654
00:40:52,356 --> 00:40:54,775
projects and I can keep up on Radio Detox

655
00:40:54,775 --> 00:40:55,655
but it's going to come back

656
00:40:55,655 --> 00:40:57,675
I've been going through old material

657
00:40:57,675 --> 00:41:11,755
It's unique. Heather, you're so unique in your perspective because you come from the radio side, very legacy, which, you know, hey, shout out AM radio. I still listen to talk radio, so I'm like that.

658
00:41:12,535 --> 00:41:14,476
I was still working on talk radio this year.

659
00:41:14,956 --> 00:41:22,655
You're big into the legacy social media, so you have a very unique perspective and you're drawn to this new world.

660
00:41:23,376 --> 00:41:23,615
Right.

661
00:41:23,615 --> 00:41:26,396
For many more personal reasons, I would say.

662
00:41:26,396 --> 00:41:31,035
Well, yeah, I mean, I've seen that dysfunction, you know, front row, front row seat.

663
00:41:31,255 --> 00:41:37,715
You know, I started out 27 years ago working in radio and working in TV and then social media came along.

664
00:41:37,795 --> 00:41:40,515
And so I've seen the evolution of this.

665
00:41:40,575 --> 00:41:44,135
And I think people are kind of aware that it doesn't feel right.

666
00:41:44,135 --> 00:41:50,876
You know, like my niece one day had a, my niece is an adult, by the way, but she had a little tantrum because Spotify sucked one day.

667
00:41:50,995 --> 00:41:54,956
Like they changed their whole interface and she got mad and she was like, I hate this.

668
00:41:54,956 --> 00:41:58,715
I stumbled download Wavelake and she was like, oh, this is cool. I already like this better.

669
00:41:59,255 --> 00:42:04,356
And I don't know where she got beyond that, but it's just those little moments where the legacy

670
00:42:04,356 --> 00:42:09,876
media fails you, where Spotify fails you, as it has obviously failed Ainsley. She's had her music

671
00:42:09,876 --> 00:42:15,896
out there for years and clearly made more money doing it this way, doing it the Bitcoin way.

672
00:42:16,436 --> 00:42:22,396
And so there's just, you get a foot in the door with people and it needs to be in tandem between

673
00:42:22,396 --> 00:42:27,655
the fans and the artists but i think what you guys were saying a few minutes ago about artists

674
00:42:27,655 --> 00:42:32,535
you know having the buy-in and artists getting on stage or artists sending out the newsletter and

675
00:42:32,535 --> 00:42:39,735
saying hey i'm doing this new thing this is all technology maybe it's not well known yet maybe

676
00:42:39,735 --> 00:42:45,675
people don't understand it maybe people don't understand lightning yet and i think sometimes

677
00:42:45,675 --> 00:42:50,396
when we've done some of these shows where we've got indie musicians we're putting them on stage

678
00:42:50,396 --> 00:42:52,035
or asking people to zap them in Bitcoin.

679
00:42:52,396 --> 00:42:54,215
I think we've been a little bit hamstrung

680
00:42:54,215 --> 00:42:56,335
by the HODL culture of Bitcoin

681
00:42:56,335 --> 00:42:58,376
and people don't want to spend their Bitcoin.

682
00:42:58,515 --> 00:43:00,396
We need people to want to take part

683
00:43:00,396 --> 00:43:02,055
in the Bitcoin economy

684
00:43:02,055 --> 00:43:03,495
so we can move this forward

685
00:43:03,495 --> 00:43:05,595
and take part in a circular economy.

686
00:43:05,956 --> 00:43:07,476
Otherwise, we're going to have to regress

687
00:43:07,476 --> 00:43:09,835
back to U.S. dollars in order to move forward.

688
00:43:10,255 --> 00:43:12,995
Because if you're looking at what Tidal is doing,

689
00:43:13,595 --> 00:43:16,315
in Tidal, I can pay, and I have done this,

690
00:43:16,695 --> 00:43:19,896
I can pay Ainsley U.S. dollars in Cash App

691
00:43:19,896 --> 00:43:22,376
when I listen to a song on Tidal by her.

692
00:43:22,635 --> 00:43:23,795
So it's the same principle.

693
00:43:24,575 --> 00:43:26,795
Okay, it's just it takes the Bitcoin out of the equation.

694
00:43:27,075 --> 00:43:28,275
And I've been wondering lately,

695
00:43:28,535 --> 00:43:30,035
if we just do that.

696
00:43:30,436 --> 00:43:33,775
Because if Bitcoiners don't want to release their Bitcoin

697
00:43:33,775 --> 00:43:38,015
into this fantastic high-tech ecosystem that we've built,

698
00:43:38,396 --> 00:43:42,055
are we going to have to have a fiat button too?

699
00:43:42,515 --> 00:43:43,956
Because maybe I don't want to let go of my Bitcoin.

700
00:43:44,095 --> 00:43:47,456
Maybe I do want to give Ainsley $1 in USD.

701
00:43:47,456 --> 00:43:49,436
You know, maybe I want to give her that.

702
00:43:49,896 --> 00:43:51,275
So I don't spend my Bitcoin.

703
00:43:51,535 --> 00:43:57,595
You know, I think we've got to go into a time here where maybe people just have the choice and we're not browbeating them.

704
00:43:57,735 --> 00:44:02,195
So you have to spend some Bitcoin because we've been doing that for a while and they're not doing it.

705
00:44:02,195 --> 00:44:04,896
So maybe this could be the training wheels.

706
00:44:05,075 --> 00:44:15,476
What Tidal is doing could be the training wheels to get people to understand, oh, here's an independent artist on a major app where I can listen to music called Tidal.

707
00:44:15,695 --> 00:44:19,815
And maybe I can give some money to this artist in that way.

708
00:44:19,896 --> 00:44:23,356
and then she can afford to go on tour, record her album,

709
00:44:23,515 --> 00:44:25,735
and it doesn't have to specifically be Ainsley.

710
00:44:25,835 --> 00:44:27,495
There's a bunch of independent artists on there.

711
00:44:27,815 --> 00:44:32,356
It's just that they're not using the rails that we've been building for years now.

712
00:44:32,495 --> 00:44:35,835
We've got this great system where you can boost and zap,

713
00:44:35,835 --> 00:44:39,795
and you can listen to Radio Detox, and when you boost the podcast,

714
00:44:40,235 --> 00:44:41,775
the Bitcoin goes to the artist.

715
00:44:42,515 --> 00:44:45,795
What we're doing here on Noster,

716
00:44:45,795 --> 00:44:53,876
it would be great if we could get the world to adopt nostr and zaps um it's just the more we can

717
00:44:53,876 --> 00:45:00,575
build it out make it better take take it so there's fewer steps to onboarding people

718
00:45:00,575 --> 00:45:06,575
dumb it way down i am in camp dumb it down we got to dumb it down and dumb it down a little bit

719
00:45:06,575 --> 00:45:11,995
more make it super easy make it super slick make everything look like that wave lake interface and

720
00:45:11,995 --> 00:45:13,896
I think we'll get there and all of these things.

721
00:45:14,275 --> 00:45:20,795
There will be a moment when they all intersect and it starts to click and it takes off for the artists and it takes off for the fans.

722
00:45:21,255 --> 00:45:23,356
And that's going to be a great thing to be a part of.

723
00:45:23,356 --> 00:45:27,155
And right now, I think we're still building and we're still working towards it.

724
00:45:27,615 --> 00:45:35,155
You mentioned Tidal and maybe for folks who are unfamiliar, you just sort of tell us what Tidal is.

725
00:45:35,215 --> 00:45:38,835
Obviously, it's one of Jack Dorsey's companies, right?

726
00:45:38,835 --> 00:45:50,695
But just talk a little bit about Tidal and then what do you think the issue is or the differences between people, quote unquote, zapping dollars, right?

727
00:45:50,775 --> 00:45:56,376
Which essentially is on Tidal versus zapping sats on, let's say, Wave Lake.

728
00:45:57,055 --> 00:45:58,335
Well, Tidal is part of blocks.

729
00:45:59,115 --> 00:46:06,976
And so with Dorsey's companies, you've got blocks, you've got Tidal, you've got Square, which I've been a longtime customer of Square.

730
00:46:06,976 --> 00:46:12,215
So I'm anxious to get that going on November 10th and start taking Bitcoin in that way.

731
00:46:12,936 --> 00:46:22,735
But Tidal is just, you know, if you're looking at your big music streaming platform, you know, your mainstream popular music apps, you've got Apple Music, you've got Spotify, and then you've got Tidal.

732
00:46:23,295 --> 00:46:30,235
And of those three, Tidal gives the biggest share to artists, which it's not saying much.

733
00:46:30,476 --> 00:46:32,916
I mean, we're still talking about fractions of cents, right?

734
00:46:32,916 --> 00:46:44,115
And this is the whole reason why we're doing what we're doing with Wavelake and Fountain and Zaps and Boosts is to get Bitcoin directly from the fan wallet to the artist wallet.

735
00:46:45,035 --> 00:46:50,175
So, you know, Tidal being a part of blocks and then Cash App being a part of that as well.

736
00:46:50,495 --> 00:46:51,635
It's just kind of built in.

737
00:46:52,447 --> 00:46:54,287
I use Cash App for a lot of things as well.

738
00:46:54,667 --> 00:46:57,987
So I use Cash App to zap on Wavelake.

739
00:46:58,347 --> 00:47:02,507
You know, I use a lot of Cash App and Strike for what I do on Noster.

740
00:47:03,227 --> 00:47:05,327
But you just, it's pretty seamless.

741
00:47:05,327 --> 00:47:12,047
If I want to send Ainsley some money from Cash App, it's just really easy to do.

742
00:47:12,267 --> 00:47:13,507
It works great with Tidal.

743
00:47:14,027 --> 00:47:16,867
And so there's a bunch of independent artists on there.

744
00:47:17,127 --> 00:47:19,427
And they maybe have never heard of Bitcoin.

745
00:47:19,547 --> 00:47:20,967
And maybe they've never heard of Noster.

746
00:47:20,967 --> 00:47:37,547
So I think what Tidal is doing is a step in the right direction. It's going to be training wheels, again, to get people to understand that like, okay, so I'm paying a monthly subscription to Tidal. I think it's like $13.99 a month I pay for Tidal, right?

747
00:47:37,547 --> 00:47:50,527
So every time I'm spinning a song on Tidal, whatever artist that is, is getting, you know, that fraction of a cent just as they would if I were listening on Apple Music or listening on Spotify.

748
00:47:51,387 --> 00:47:57,527
But then I can go, you know what, this song by Ainsley Costello has really, you know, gripped my attention.

749
00:47:57,927 --> 00:48:01,807
I've listened to the song 20 times in a row because she never writes long enough songs.

750
00:48:01,907 --> 00:48:03,347
So I got to keep putting it on repeats.

751
00:48:03,347 --> 00:48:08,367
so you know I've really enjoyed this song so I'm just gonna I'm gonna send her some money for my

752
00:48:08,367 --> 00:48:14,147
cash app because I can and it feels like you know I hate to use the word patronage because then it

753
00:48:14,147 --> 00:48:19,967
sounds like that Patreon app that I'm not a huge fan of but it's it's a way to give back to an

754
00:48:19,967 --> 00:48:28,587
artist when they their music really touches your heart or changes your life and you know just the

755
00:48:28,587 --> 00:48:34,127
fact that there is one fiat place that that happens is kind of nice. And I don't know if

756
00:48:34,127 --> 00:48:39,027
that's, you know, I don't know if that's taking off for title and cash output together. I have no

757
00:48:39,027 --> 00:48:43,907
idea. I have no way of knowing that. But we know that people in our space, the Bitcoin and Oster

758
00:48:43,907 --> 00:48:49,827
space, we know our people really enjoy Wavelake. They like to put their own music on Wavelake.

759
00:48:49,827 --> 00:48:57,227
They love to use Fountain and Zap podcasts, and they love the social layer of being able to do

760
00:48:57,227 --> 00:49:03,647
that and i think when ainsley ainsley knew when i sent her buddy uh on title with cash app like she

761
00:49:03,647 --> 00:49:07,807
knew and it was kind of cool because she could she could see it coming to her phone right so it's

762
00:49:07,807 --> 00:49:11,627
and in that way it's also the same principle right because when somebody sends you a zap on nostr

763
00:49:11,627 --> 00:49:16,747
you're probably going to get a notification so if an artist is receiving some money on title by a

764
00:49:16,747 --> 00:49:20,787
cash app they're going to they're going to get that notification amy maybe ainsley should speak

765
00:49:20,787 --> 00:49:27,107
to this i just want to ask ainsley which is which is just putting your musician hat on forget the

766
00:49:27,107 --> 00:49:32,687
fact that you absorbed all this from bitcoin as well just set that aside for a second as a musician

767
00:49:32,687 --> 00:49:39,567
why would you choose nostr over title when you get a similar kind of benefit nostr over title

768
00:49:39,567 --> 00:49:45,827
i think i mean it's hard for me to say like i would choose nostr over title because like we've

769
00:49:45,827 --> 00:49:50,507
been having some pretty exciting like um you know secret conversations with the title team about

770
00:49:50,507 --> 00:49:56,487
you know, how we can implement some of the Nostra functionalities and, you know, just the great

771
00:49:56,487 --> 00:50:00,547
experiences that I've had in the Bitcoin and Nostra world and how, you know, Tidal could maybe

772
00:50:00,547 --> 00:50:03,747
replicate that, whether it's with the same technology or their different technologies.

773
00:50:04,287 --> 00:50:09,467
But I mean, with Nostra, and one of the things that I've said a bunch of times, but I'm always

774
00:50:09,467 --> 00:50:13,047
going to keep saying it, is that with Nostra, it doesn't feel like you're shouting into the void.

775
00:50:13,647 --> 00:50:19,467
You know, when I put up an Instagram post, I feel cringe. I feel like, oh my gosh,

776
00:50:19,467 --> 00:50:24,527
I'm so sorry for like burdening, burdening my followers with like me telling them that I have

777
00:50:24,527 --> 00:50:29,087
a new song out or that I'm, you know, just sharing a part of my life with Nostra. That's not the case.

778
00:50:29,607 --> 00:50:36,707
You know, some of my best performing posts on Nostra are about, you know, when I have new music

779
00:50:36,707 --> 00:50:42,047
out and that's not really the case on, you know, the traditional socials anymore. But yeah, I mean,

780
00:50:42,067 --> 00:50:46,207
if I could kind of just like touch back on some of the things that Heather said a minute ago,

781
00:50:46,207 --> 00:50:53,507
she really touched on, you know, the circular economy of using Bitcoin as money. Because,

782
00:50:53,507 --> 00:50:58,407
you know, one of the things that I think I've, you know, noticed over the past couple of years

783
00:50:58,407 --> 00:51:02,527
is I've been trying to bring my artist friends in, isn't it? And I need to backtrack a little

784
00:51:02,527 --> 00:51:07,427
bit before I, you know, I start this. I mean, so I was really lucky that I came in at the right

785
00:51:07,427 --> 00:51:13,247
place at the right time with Bitcoin. I was a really lucky beneficiary. I think you could,

786
00:51:13,247 --> 00:51:16,527
you know, say the same thing. I don't want to speak for him, but you know, Joe, Joe was even

787
00:51:16,527 --> 00:51:22,047
more of an OG in this space than I am. He was here long before I was, but you know, my success

788
00:51:22,047 --> 00:51:27,547
and experience in this space needs to be the rule and not the exception. Every artist who comes into

789
00:51:27,547 --> 00:51:34,067
this space needs to be met with the same, you know, amount of, um, excitement and love and, um,

790
00:51:34,667 --> 00:51:37,907
zap payments. And again, it's not about the money. It's about the principle of like,

791
00:51:38,147 --> 00:51:42,027
you know, I I've brought a bunch of, or I've tried to bring a bunch of my artist friends over here.

792
00:51:42,027 --> 00:51:43,947
and they're like, hey, this is really cool.

793
00:51:44,007 --> 00:51:45,707
I'm really glad that it worked really well for you.

794
00:51:45,747 --> 00:51:47,187
But, you know, they put up a couple of songs

795
00:51:47,187 --> 00:51:49,347
and they don't see the same reaction

796
00:51:49,347 --> 00:51:50,487
that I was telling them about

797
00:51:50,487 --> 00:51:51,967
that happened for me with Cherry on top.

798
00:51:52,007 --> 00:51:52,867
And even the, you know,

799
00:51:53,127 --> 00:51:55,207
that what still continues to happen to me

800
00:51:55,207 --> 00:51:58,107
when I put new songs on Wave Lake and Fountain.

801
00:51:58,307 --> 00:51:59,327
And I think, you know,

802
00:51:59,367 --> 00:52:01,147
going back to the legacy platforms

803
00:52:01,147 --> 00:52:03,427
in the chicken or the egg question,

804
00:52:03,427 --> 00:52:06,367
like I think, and I have said this before too,

805
00:52:06,527 --> 00:52:09,227
like the fans themselves

806
00:52:09,227 --> 00:52:10,767
are going to be the heavy lift.

807
00:52:10,847 --> 00:52:11,527
It's not the artists

808
00:52:11,527 --> 00:52:16,107
because the artists, when they see this written out

809
00:52:16,107 --> 00:52:17,487
and they sit down with me

810
00:52:17,487 --> 00:52:18,887
and they have the three hour conversation

811
00:52:18,887 --> 00:52:21,367
about why this is a cool thing, they get it.

812
00:52:21,427 --> 00:52:22,747
They're like, okay, cool, sign me up.

813
00:52:22,947 --> 00:52:24,747
But the fans are the ones who have been accustomed

814
00:52:24,747 --> 00:52:27,227
to getting music for free for the past 25 years.

815
00:52:27,327 --> 00:52:28,727
And I've been saying this forever.

816
00:52:28,927 --> 00:52:29,787
Music is a service.

817
00:52:29,947 --> 00:52:35,067
Music is something that we put so much blood, sweat, tears,

818
00:52:35,227 --> 00:52:38,407
actual money into to really get nothing back

819
00:52:38,407 --> 00:52:39,107
at the end of the day.

820
00:52:39,107 --> 00:52:45,507
And, you know, with a platform like Spotify, like I really believe that Spotify is just Napster in better branding.

821
00:52:45,507 --> 00:52:54,367
Like it's completely cheating artists out of our revenue under the guise of like artist equity and like, oh, if you can get your music on Spotify, then you're being heard.

822
00:52:54,367 --> 00:53:02,927
But you're not being heard on Spotify because there are over, I think, 100 million independent artists on on Spotify.

823
00:53:02,927 --> 00:53:05,947
I don't know if that's the correct number. Feel free to fact check me on that.

824
00:53:05,947 --> 00:53:12,047
But there are a crazy number of songs that get uploaded every single day on Spotify.

825
00:53:12,287 --> 00:53:23,727
And so when you think about the sheer amount of artists who are the ones who are making those songs and putting them on Spotify, I think it might be about getting to a point of drawing a line in the sand and saying you can't find me on these platforms.

826
00:53:24,207 --> 00:53:30,647
Or, you know, the other alternative is like these, you know, legacy platforms just need to be brought down somehow.

827
00:53:30,647 --> 00:53:37,787
And I think Spotify is doing a really great job of what's the right word?

828
00:53:37,887 --> 00:53:41,667
Because part of me, like I'm always trying to remain diplomatic, but also like my inner

829
00:53:41,667 --> 00:53:43,967
feelings on the matter are very much not diplomatic.

830
00:53:44,547 --> 00:53:49,587
Spotify, I think, is doing a really great job of like, I think, tanking their credibility

831
00:53:49,587 --> 00:53:54,467
right now with I mean, and I don't, you know, particularly this is not a political podcast,

832
00:53:54,467 --> 00:53:59,187
but some of the, you know, the ads that Spotify has been running for their paid subscription

833
00:53:59,187 --> 00:54:04,307
model have been, um, you know, really upsetting. They have a really awful track record of not

834
00:54:04,307 --> 00:54:10,807
paying artists, um, and giving a big chunk of, um, the money pool to their top performing artists,

835
00:54:10,807 --> 00:54:14,707
like the Taylor Swift's and the Ed Sheeran's and Beyonce's, um, and then not paying all the

836
00:54:14,707 --> 00:54:20,727
little guys fairly when the, the actual music industry is, is off the backs of the artists

837
00:54:20,727 --> 00:54:25,827
who are in Nashville, who are paying $1,500 a song to get it produced. And then another $300

838
00:54:25,827 --> 00:54:30,707
to get it mixed and mastered. And then, um, you know, just to market it and get it out into the

839
00:54:30,707 --> 00:54:35,307
world. So I think it's, it's about drawing a line in the sand and it's about utilizing these new

840
00:54:35,307 --> 00:54:39,347
platforms. Cause I mean, one of the other things that like, I have been sending the emails out,

841
00:54:39,347 --> 00:54:44,807
um, to my email list and to my friends and followers and, um, and Heather, this might be

842
00:54:44,807 --> 00:54:49,047
a really great thing to chat about what we, you asked me on stage last week and Heather brought

843
00:54:49,047 --> 00:54:53,267
up a really great question when, um, we were on stage and she asked, um, I don't remember exactly

844
00:54:53,267 --> 00:54:58,227
how you phrased it, Heather, but how do we, um, how do we get Gen Z to come over here? Like,

845
00:54:58,267 --> 00:55:04,727
what are some of the, I guess the PR tweaks that this, this space kind of needs to be, um,

846
00:55:05,167 --> 00:55:10,287
be more palatable to a bigger audience. And I think we had a really great discussion about that

847
00:55:10,287 --> 00:55:14,547
on stage at Nostra Valley last week, but, um, yeah, I mean, that's just, that's just my two

848
00:55:14,547 --> 00:55:19,487
cents. Like, I think it's so exciting to be a part of this space, but I think the farther I get into

849
00:55:19,487 --> 00:55:27,107
this, the more I realize that there is a long way to go until the mass populace adopts this. And,

850
00:55:27,187 --> 00:55:31,327
you know, I think it's going to be a combination of right place, the right time for this space.

851
00:55:31,447 --> 00:55:37,607
And then also it's going to be the downfall of these legacy platforms.

852
00:55:38,167 --> 00:55:43,067
You know, you brought up an interesting point, Ainsley, and this might be an unfair question to

853
00:55:43,067 --> 00:55:48,667
ask you because you're relatively new into your career, but you're talking about artists not

854
00:55:48,667 --> 00:55:55,827
getting paid and and in some sense audiences expecting to get stuff for free right right i

855
00:55:55,827 --> 00:56:00,927
mean that was the napster model right people say i deserve to listen to these mp3s for free

856
00:56:00,927 --> 00:56:10,287
and art is really not just music right art period art period is is true and good art is true proof

857
00:56:10,287 --> 00:56:16,687
of work because blood sweat and tears go into it it's people are are pouring their life force into

858
00:56:16,687 --> 00:56:18,767
this act of creation.

859
00:56:19,287 --> 00:56:21,807
And yet the people consuming it

860
00:56:21,807 --> 00:56:26,147
assume or I guess it demand

861
00:56:26,147 --> 00:56:27,287
that it needs to be for free.

862
00:56:27,627 --> 00:56:28,487
Why do you think that is?

863
00:56:28,547 --> 00:56:30,607
Why do you think audiences,

864
00:56:31,347 --> 00:56:33,467
I mean, maybe I should make a blanket statement,

865
00:56:33,607 --> 00:56:35,067
but there are enough people

866
00:56:35,067 --> 00:56:38,627
who think they deserve to listen to art for free

867
00:56:38,627 --> 00:56:40,047
and they don't actually value it.

868
00:56:40,207 --> 00:56:43,007
Yeah, I mean, I think that you can accredit that

869
00:56:43,007 --> 00:56:45,707
to the Spotify's and the Apple Music's

870
00:56:45,707 --> 00:56:49,687
even the YouTubes and platforms like that.

871
00:56:49,867 --> 00:56:52,287
And especially where social media is today

872
00:56:52,287 --> 00:56:55,847
with the whole content creator mentality

873
00:56:55,847 --> 00:56:59,447
where I think a good example of that is,

874
00:56:59,847 --> 00:57:03,307
so every record label in Nashville right now

875
00:57:03,307 --> 00:57:04,587
is not going to sign anybody.

876
00:57:04,747 --> 00:57:07,087
It does not matter how good that they are

877
00:57:07,087 --> 00:57:10,027
unless they have minimum 100,000 followers

878
00:57:10,027 --> 00:57:12,947
and they are creating three to five short form

879
00:57:12,947 --> 00:57:14,607
pieces of content every day.

880
00:57:14,607 --> 00:57:28,567
And that's on top of all of the other content that music musicians create, because that's another thing that I feel like has the music industry has always been like pretty hypocritical of, you know, saying musicians need to be content creators.

881
00:57:28,687 --> 00:57:33,307
Musicians need to be content creators. We have been content creators forever.

882
00:57:33,307 --> 00:57:40,027
like the the albums are significant content the music videos are significant content and so you

883
00:57:40,027 --> 00:57:47,107
know asking um artists to you know make 30 second videos on like okay guys help me pick my outfit

884
00:57:47,107 --> 00:57:52,207
that i'm wearing or okay guys help me like not the makeup that i'm wearing i mean and there's

885
00:57:52,207 --> 00:57:56,727
nothing i'm not particularly knocking that because i i understand that a lot of artists get a lot of

886
00:57:56,727 --> 00:58:03,287
joy out of that. Um, but I think social media today is in such a, a state of, um, yeah, I mean,

887
00:58:03,367 --> 00:58:09,947
give it all up for free and because that's how, you know, your fans are going to decide on whether

888
00:58:09,947 --> 00:58:17,547
or not they, uh, want to continue investing their time and energy in you. And, um, yeah, I mean,

889
00:58:18,227 --> 00:58:24,207
I mean, I think it's absolutely a fair statement to make that audiences do, um, expect, um, you know,

890
00:58:24,207 --> 00:58:49,499
art for free because I think and we really saw that happen to the extent that it is today We saw it start happening with Napster in the late nineties and the two And you know the Spotify and Apple Music bundles that you know subscribers can pay for that I think has kind of not even brainwashed artists but brainwashed fans into that idea of oh I am paying for art

891
00:58:49,619 --> 00:58:51,399
But they're not paying for art.

892
00:58:51,399 --> 00:59:17,339
And especially Katie and I talk about this on our podcast in this episode will be coming out in a couple of weeks where we go deep into Spotify's Bundlegate program where they're now part of a bundle where you can buy Spotify and Hulu and Disney Plus, I think, and a couple of other things, which ultimately leads to songwriters and artists getting paid even less than what the current mechanical royalty rate is right now.

893
00:59:17,339 --> 00:59:28,239
So, you know, the consumers are the ones who they they truly do believe. I mean, if I wasn't doing music and I was just, you know, somebody who liked to consume music and movies and whatnot.

894
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:34,639
And I'm sure that this is the same for the the acting part of the entertainment industry where you pay for Netflix and you pay for Hulu.

895
00:59:34,959 --> 00:59:41,379
And, you know, we think, oh, look at all these great shows we get to watch. We are paying for the art, but we're not as consumers.

896
00:59:41,379 --> 00:59:43,359
is we're very much not paying for the art.

897
00:59:43,479 --> 00:59:44,659
We're paying for, you know,

898
00:59:44,859 --> 00:59:46,939
Daniel Ek to have a really nice cushy office

899
00:59:46,939 --> 00:59:47,879
at Spotify headquarters.

900
00:59:47,879 --> 00:59:49,659
And look, I've said it once, I'll say it again.

901
00:59:49,699 --> 00:59:51,259
If Daniel Ek has no haters, I'm dead.

902
00:59:51,959 --> 00:59:52,899
He stepped on.

903
00:59:53,619 --> 00:59:55,819
So yes and no.

904
00:59:55,939 --> 00:59:57,819
I mean, so he's not going to be the CEO anymore,

905
00:59:57,819 --> 00:59:59,919
but I believe he still has a majority

906
00:59:59,919 --> 01:00:01,859
of his shares in Spotify

907
01:00:01,859 --> 01:00:03,299
and he's just on the board of directors,

908
01:00:03,479 --> 01:00:04,679
which means that he still has,

909
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:07,659
I'm fairly certain that he still retains

910
01:00:07,659 --> 01:00:09,139
most of the voting control

911
01:00:09,139 --> 01:00:10,759
about what happens to his company.

912
01:00:11,379 --> 01:00:13,639
So Mike, I'm going to ask you the same question.

913
01:00:13,739 --> 01:00:16,019
You've made a few more circles around the sun,

914
01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:18,019
quite a few more circles around the sun than Ainsley.

915
01:00:18,579 --> 01:00:23,099
And you've had a ringside view to several artists

916
01:00:23,099 --> 01:00:25,819
in your long and storied career, open mic.

917
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:29,499
I'm saying you're an old man, Mike.

918
01:00:29,619 --> 01:00:30,559
Yeah, I appreciate it.

919
01:00:30,919 --> 01:00:33,219
We did the birthday comparison earlier.

920
01:00:33,699 --> 01:00:34,279
Yeah, I know.

921
01:00:34,279 --> 01:00:45,139
but you know having seen what you've seen in all of these years mike what what is what is

922
01:00:45,139 --> 01:00:54,339
why do you think that is is that like why do fans and audiences not or just assume that uh this

923
01:00:54,339 --> 01:00:58,679
should be and it could be for music it could be for other art as well right it seems to be a common

924
01:00:58,679 --> 01:01:07,099
theme that they just sort of expect uh this their enjoyment to be for free yeah i mean some of that

925
01:01:07,099 --> 01:01:16,219
is just human nature and not not uh anything music or art specific but what i will say is that

926
01:01:16,219 --> 01:01:24,919
if you give if you give fans the chance and you explain to them what it means the one of the

927
01:01:24,919 --> 01:01:31,499
things that I tell every single person that I talk to when I'm hosting someone at a live event

928
01:01:31,499 --> 01:01:37,699
is if you care about the artist, if you really want to support them, go hit the merch table.

929
01:01:38,839 --> 01:01:47,319
That's the closest thing you can get to a peer-to-peer relationship or a transaction

930
01:01:47,319 --> 01:01:55,399
with your artists and that that really matters to the economics of touring the the the recorded

931
01:01:55,399 --> 01:02:06,459
space that Ainsley spoke so um so well about just now is is uh it's so obscured and opaque and you

932
01:02:06,459 --> 01:02:12,059
just you can't figure out how the formulas work and am I going to get a check for 27 cents in like

933
01:02:12,059 --> 01:02:15,779
And it's purposefully designed like that to confuse artists and fans alike.

934
01:02:16,199 --> 01:02:22,199
Yeah, I mean, as a venue operator, I have to remit those payments to the royalty companies.

935
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:28,339
So just every time we open our doors, if we're going to have ambient music on, boom, there you go.

936
01:02:28,399 --> 01:02:32,459
You're going to get a minimum bill of X thousand dollars.

937
01:02:32,459 --> 01:02:44,739
But we have no idea where that goes after it pays for the ASCAP, BMI, CSAC overhead and then eventually gets magically distributed to the artist somewhere.

938
01:02:45,699 --> 01:02:47,539
So we don't know where that goes.

939
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:49,119
We just get the bill from the agency.

940
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:55,999
But fans, coming back to the question of free content

941
01:02:55,999 --> 01:02:59,579
Fans inherently understand

942
01:02:59,579 --> 01:03:04,879
I don't need my 87th black band t-shirt

943
01:03:04,879 --> 01:03:08,259
But every time I see a show that moves me

944
01:03:08,259 --> 01:03:09,719
That's where I go

945
01:03:09,719 --> 01:03:13,599
And fans get that

946
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:20,339
And they're curious about how can they support, how can they be more involved.

947
01:03:20,459 --> 01:03:25,019
And I think that is kind of partly why those social media videos matter.

948
01:03:25,159 --> 01:03:29,639
They want to know what their artists are up to, what makes them tick, how are they doing on a day-to-day basis.

949
01:03:29,899 --> 01:03:31,739
They're kind of in relationship with them.

950
01:03:31,739 --> 01:03:50,959
And so I'm very bullish that when we get tools like this out there and have people understand what exactly this little zap button is doing and how profound that is, that you can just drop money directly into the living room of your favorite artist.

951
01:03:52,859 --> 01:03:54,879
I think that has meaning.

952
01:03:54,879 --> 01:04:10,139
I think that in the way that music touches people, I think that could force people to want to figure out how to make these payments happen.

953
01:04:10,239 --> 01:04:13,239
Because there is, to Heather's point, we've got to dumb this down.

954
01:04:13,319 --> 01:04:14,559
We've got to make this really easy.

955
01:04:14,679 --> 01:04:21,239
That's a huge barrier because you can't take 45 minutes to tell someone how to give their favorite artist 20 cents.

956
01:04:21,239 --> 01:04:26,619
but when we get those dialed in

957
01:04:26,619 --> 01:04:29,119
and we can really have some clear talk points

958
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:31,079
and the artists are comfortable

959
01:04:31,079 --> 01:04:32,919
that's the big thing for me

960
01:04:32,919 --> 01:04:37,079
is getting the artists comfortable talking about the ask

961
01:04:37,079 --> 01:04:41,059
you get somebody who says

962
01:04:41,059 --> 01:04:42,639
hey if you want to support me

963
01:04:42,639 --> 01:04:45,539
support me in this way

964
01:04:45,539 --> 01:04:50,259
use this app and go through these steps

965
01:04:50,259 --> 01:04:53,879
And it's kind of like what Adam Curry was doing 18 years ago.

966
01:04:53,979 --> 01:04:57,639
He said, if you want to support the show, it's value for value.

967
01:04:57,759 --> 01:05:05,499
And he's got his army of producers that participate in supporting the show.

968
01:05:05,759 --> 01:05:09,059
And it's taken a long time to train that behavior.

969
01:05:09,999 --> 01:05:17,739
But when the artists are comfortable doing that, then their fans will listen.

970
01:05:17,739 --> 01:05:24,979
but then we get into the whole you know the the rest of our panel in in Noster Valley Heather

971
01:05:24,979 --> 01:05:32,719
where we talked about some of the um why don't artists want to just you know this is if this is

972
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:38,419
so great why won't they just dive in head first and slap a Nostrich tattoo on the middle of their

973
01:05:38,419 --> 01:05:49,099
forehead and a bitcoin shirt and there is we have to deal with the um the public the pr problems of

974
01:05:49,099 --> 01:05:56,979
of what some of these some of these spaces get like if you go into if you go into nostor and

975
01:05:56,979 --> 01:06:03,799
everything is about censorship and freedom like it's all we understand that we've been here

976
01:06:03,799 --> 01:06:10,519
forever but to the outside it can look political and especially with the current administration

977
01:06:10,519 --> 01:06:21,079
um love him or hate him um he's polarizing and orange man associated with orange coin

978
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:28,879
is not a good thing for talking to musicians it is not there's a stigma on like there is no

979
01:06:28,879 --> 01:06:33,659
entertainment industry like myself included like we're all very like blue

980
01:06:33,659 --> 01:06:38,179
left-leaning i mean not all of us but you know it's it's a good chunk of us for sure and so that's

981
01:06:38,179 --> 01:06:43,799
i think a way that turns a lot of a lot of people off for sure like one of my friends who um you

982
01:06:43,799 --> 01:06:47,179
know i tried to get into this space she was like ainsley i love that this works for you but

983
01:06:47,179 --> 01:06:50,899
everything orange man is doing is making me anxious i don't know how much i can really

984
01:06:50,899 --> 01:06:54,799
continue to be a part of this space and i was like you know what i can't i can't blame you for

985
01:06:54,799 --> 01:07:04,639
that for sure you know on that on that narrow point mike or you yeah i mean there's i wonder if

986
01:07:04,639 --> 01:07:11,719
there's a there's a there's an educational gap here because orange man also uses he drives a car

987
01:07:11,719 --> 01:07:16,999
he also uses a mobile phone right we're not boycotting cars and we're not boycotting mobile

988
01:07:16,999 --> 01:07:23,499
phones it's a neutral technology yes i wonder how that can be communicated somehow you know part of

989
01:07:23,499 --> 01:07:31,199
the problem is part of what, you know, this community, I'll, I'll give you an example here.

990
01:07:31,199 --> 01:07:38,619
So the, the national independent venue association is a group of thousands of independent venues

991
01:07:38,619 --> 01:07:44,739
around the country that joined forces during COVID and, um, did a lot of great things.

992
01:07:44,839 --> 01:07:50,839
Advocacy work, changed some laws, passed some stimulus, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. So, um,

993
01:07:50,839 --> 01:07:54,779
One of the big efforts that they're working on

994
01:07:54,779 --> 01:07:56,519
Is ticketing reform

995
01:07:56,519 --> 01:08:00,379
And figuring, you know, solving some of these scalpers

996
01:08:00,379 --> 01:08:02,659
Junk fees, tickets

997
01:08:02,659 --> 01:08:06,119
And I don't know if you all remember

998
01:08:06,119 --> 01:08:10,219
There's about 15 executive orders a day it feels like

999
01:08:10,219 --> 01:08:13,459
But there was an executive order with Kid Rock

1000
01:08:13,459 --> 01:08:15,839
In the Oval Office a few months ago

1001
01:08:15,839 --> 01:08:25,379
and Trump basically signed an executive order for a lot of what we've been fighting for at Neva.

1002
01:08:26,839 --> 01:08:31,339
And you think we could just take the win, right?

1003
01:08:31,419 --> 01:08:36,319
And just be like, okay, well, I wish it would have been a different messenger, but here you go.

1004
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:40,579
Like we got like, let's, you know, let's celebrate what we got.

1005
01:08:40,859 --> 01:08:42,859
And it divided the community.

1006
01:08:42,859 --> 01:08:46,699
It was a really strange thing to observe.

1007
01:08:47,019 --> 01:08:53,919
And that's kind of how I describe this spot where we're in is like this technology is agnostic.

1008
01:08:55,419 --> 01:09:07,159
I originally became, you know, Bitcoin, you know, ready, I would say, through like an Occupy Wall Street lens of like the big banks are screwing us over.

1009
01:09:07,159 --> 01:09:13,099
and much more from the left is how I was predetermined to be a Bitcoiner.

1010
01:09:15,179 --> 01:09:19,439
And as I've gotten into the community, I see both sides.

1011
01:09:19,639 --> 01:09:24,599
I see all sorts of uses, and I think it's just an amazing unifying technology

1012
01:09:24,599 --> 01:09:28,119
that really forces a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't hang out together

1013
01:09:28,119 --> 01:09:32,219
to hang out together because we're doing something more important than stupid politics

1014
01:09:32,219 --> 01:09:34,259
and fighting about this or that.

1015
01:09:34,259 --> 01:09:38,859
And to an outside musician

1016
01:09:38,859 --> 01:09:42,059
It's really complicated to understand

1017
01:09:42,059 --> 01:09:47,719
That just because Trump is into Bitcoin

1018
01:09:47,719 --> 01:09:49,659
Or his sons are like, you know

1019
01:09:49,659 --> 01:09:54,559
Seeking out exit liquidity for the next few years around the country

1020
01:09:54,559 --> 01:09:55,899
They

1021
01:09:55,899 --> 01:10:01,719
That doesn't mean that this technology is associated with any of that

1022
01:10:01,719 --> 01:10:08,119
and it's a hard, it's a pretty nuanced conversation to have with people, and I would say that

1023
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:25,371
almost all musicians are not willing to take up that discussion with their fan base and they don have any interest in dividing their fan base by publicly going out there and saying give me Bitcoin And then they say why And you know

1024
01:10:25,391 --> 01:10:31,431
it just opens up larger, seemingly irrelevant conversations for traditional musicians if

1025
01:10:31,431 --> 01:10:36,531
they're not, you know, really based and been doing their 40 hours per week.

1026
01:10:36,531 --> 01:10:38,151
so how do we

1027
01:10:38,151 --> 01:10:40,871
well let me ask you Mike

1028
01:10:40,871 --> 01:10:42,871
how much is

1029
01:10:42,871 --> 01:10:44,071
Richard Greaser's

1030
01:10:44,071 --> 01:10:46,531
new album coming up

1031
01:10:46,531 --> 01:10:47,591
going to change the game

1032
01:10:47,591 --> 01:10:49,611
adoption

1033
01:10:49,611 --> 01:10:51,651
Doomsday DJ

1034
01:10:51,651 --> 01:10:54,811
I know you're a big

1035
01:10:54,811 --> 01:10:55,431
big listener

1036
01:10:55,431 --> 01:10:59,271
I mean I fanboy all over

1037
01:10:59,271 --> 01:11:01,251
I mean I'm always

1038
01:11:01,251 --> 01:11:02,991
you got any predictions

1039
01:11:02,991 --> 01:11:04,031
on the billboard chart

1040
01:11:04,031 --> 01:11:10,711
well you saw they just the billboard charts just made that announcement yesterday i posted it on

1041
01:11:10,711 --> 01:11:16,311
nostr how they're rearranging how the top 100 i think that's probably in response to some of

1042
01:11:16,311 --> 01:11:24,951
greasers actions oh my god you know i was thinking about you though uh mike uh i went to a shoot my

1043
01:11:24,951 --> 01:11:31,191
buddy came into town from florida last weekend or week and uh we had a show at um a venue and it was

1044
01:11:31,191 --> 01:11:33,351
on Ticketmaster.

1045
01:11:33,811 --> 01:11:35,091
But the day before the show,

1046
01:11:35,371 --> 01:11:37,371
I didn't buy the ticket yet. My buddy's like,

1047
01:11:37,691 --> 01:11:39,351
dude, they sold out. You can only get them on

1048
01:11:39,351 --> 01:11:41,251
second hand now. I'm like, okay.

1049
01:11:41,431 --> 01:11:43,051
And of course, they're on SeatGeek.

1050
01:11:43,571 --> 01:11:45,331
And they ended up being

1051
01:11:45,331 --> 01:11:47,171
cheaper on SeatGeek

1052
01:11:47,171 --> 01:11:49,291
after it was all said and done. But it just shows you how

1053
01:11:49,291 --> 01:11:51,511
close they work together,

1054
01:11:51,871 --> 01:11:52,811
I suppose.

1055
01:11:53,671 --> 01:11:54,771
It's like the same

1056
01:11:54,771 --> 01:11:57,011
ticketing agencies,

1057
01:11:57,011 --> 01:11:58,511
but just with different veils.

1058
01:11:59,151 --> 01:12:00,031
It's worse.

1059
01:12:00,031 --> 01:12:10,911
If you would have had the full Live Nation experience, they actually own their own version of SeatGeek, their secondhand verified resale market.

1060
01:12:11,851 --> 01:12:15,511
And I think they just had to suspend it.

1061
01:12:15,571 --> 01:12:16,431
Don't quote me on it.

1062
01:12:17,231 --> 01:12:19,171
Something came up in the news in the last month.

1063
01:12:19,171 --> 01:12:34,831
Yeah, I think your normal fan experience would be you click on the show and instead of going to SeatGeek, it goes to the Ticketmaster affiliated resale market where you get to pay them your fees again at a higher price.

1064
01:12:34,831 --> 01:12:39,831
But they're in trouble in Washington, D.C. with antitrust laws.

1065
01:12:40,631 --> 01:12:47,291
So I think they literally took it down in the last week or so because of what's going on in that lawsuit.

1066
01:12:47,291 --> 01:13:03,391
Yeah. And then Heather's point, talking about the title in that, I was thinking about it because we're talking about, you know, we need to have the artists or maybe it would help to have the artists kind of launch some of these events.

1067
01:13:03,391 --> 01:13:15,311
But, you know, title in 2015 was the co-owners of it were Beyonce, Jay-Z, Rihanna, Madonna, Kanye West, Usher, Nicki Minaj, Alicia Keys, Daft Punk.

1068
01:13:16,271 --> 01:13:25,071
So these are all these like it was almost like they took the biggest people at the time to launch this, trying to get people away from Spotify.

1069
01:13:25,071 --> 01:13:33,071
And it's just like if they can't do it, you kind of have to like think, OK, maybe it's not the artist.

1070
01:13:33,071 --> 01:13:37,291
Maybe it's something we need to, maybe it's the Noster is everything.

1071
01:13:37,511 --> 01:13:38,991
You know, it's an everything app.

1072
01:13:39,111 --> 01:13:39,951
It's a protocol.

1073
01:13:41,471 --> 01:13:46,091
It's got to be maybe the technology standpoint, the convenience standpoint, the freedom standpoint.

1074
01:13:46,671 --> 01:13:54,551
Maybe more testimonials from artists who everyone loves, but then they realize, oh my gosh, they got pulled through the ringer.

1075
01:13:55,011 --> 01:13:56,351
Maybe we need to fix this system.

1076
01:13:56,991 --> 01:14:01,391
I think about like Sam, you know, with his album 20 years ago.

1077
01:14:01,391 --> 01:14:05,571
So he had a bitter, he was very bitter about it.

1078
01:14:05,611 --> 01:14:10,731
And I asked him, you know, when I first met him, I think it was our first Nostra PHX.

1079
01:14:10,791 --> 01:14:14,371
I'm like, how much of what you're doing is because of what happened then?

1080
01:14:14,371 --> 01:14:16,651
And, you know, he said a lot of it.

1081
01:14:17,131 --> 01:14:29,631
And maybe that's kind of the, you know, when we talked just loud before the Minnesota event, you know, those stories of, the true stories of, you know, successful people.

1082
01:14:29,631 --> 01:14:33,771
or you would assume are successful musicians in your eyes

1083
01:14:33,771 --> 01:14:35,571
and realize that they're just getting,

1084
01:14:36,291 --> 01:14:40,631
they signed something and they truly didn't own their art.

1085
01:14:41,411 --> 01:14:43,191
So it's like, I don't know,

1086
01:14:43,531 --> 01:14:46,411
maybe having more testimonials helps too.

1087
01:14:47,431 --> 01:14:52,431
Well, you know, another way to look at it is we have a big three.

1088
01:14:52,631 --> 01:14:56,711
We have Apple Music, we have Spotify, we have Tidal, right?

1089
01:14:56,791 --> 01:14:57,771
So there's your mainstream.

1090
01:14:57,771 --> 01:15:11,791
And then in the indie music department, we've got your Wavelake, we've got your Fountain, and we've got people on Nostra, people just logging on to Nostra, like Matthias McIntyre posting a video every day of, you know, classical music.

1091
01:15:12,411 --> 01:15:25,211
And so what we're doing, we're fighting something that started with Bill Clinton in 1996 in the Telecom Act, and that was supposed to create competition and innovation, and obviously it didn't, because now we're here.

1092
01:15:25,211 --> 01:15:40,751
So, you know, what we need is a lot of Wavelakes, a lot of fountains. We need a lot of Ainsleys. And there are a lot of Ainsleys. That's the thing. There are so many Ainsleys out there who could benefit from the fact that we have a Wavelake and a fountain.

1093
01:15:40,751 --> 01:15:48,771
so you know we need to be popping things up like hydra you know and giving alternatives and reaching

1094
01:15:48,771 --> 01:15:54,431
people in different you know different cities different musical genres you know like when

1095
01:15:54,431 --> 01:16:00,171
mike went to wyoming for what fest you know you're reaching it completely you're you know

1096
01:16:00,171 --> 01:16:07,291
the hippie jam bands who are out camping in wyoming you know you got it to them right so

1097
01:16:07,291 --> 01:16:12,951
each one teach one each one reach one it's it's really a grassroots movement you know

1098
01:16:12,951 --> 01:16:19,571
derrick ross vibe coded zap tracks right so he's pulled together a way for for wave lake tracks

1099
01:16:19,571 --> 01:16:24,911
and fountain tracks to coexist on zap tracks and i think it does actually play ainsley's music as

1100
01:16:24,911 --> 01:16:30,871
well so like we need more people just vibe code and apps you know or take the app and fork it and

1101
01:16:30,871 --> 01:16:35,571
make it you know a different app a different version of zap tracks and you know sam's always

1102
01:16:35,571 --> 01:16:41,031
said as long as i've known sam for the last couple of years you know it's open source go build on

1103
01:16:41,031 --> 01:16:47,131
wave like you know keep keep building solutions we just need more competition we need to do the

1104
01:16:47,131 --> 01:16:53,811
opposite of what happened in 1996 and we just need more alternatives more ways for indie music

1105
01:16:53,811 --> 01:16:59,771
to be discovered for fans to enjoy the music for to reach them and touch them in a way that they're

1106
01:16:59,771 --> 01:17:05,431
like hey how do i how do i be a good fan because you know we do live in the subscription trap

1107
01:17:05,431 --> 01:17:11,411
now or it's like am I a good fan if I listen to Apple music and Tidal all day you know like now

1108
01:17:11,411 --> 01:17:15,571
I'm more conscious about my consumption and I go well I gotta go on Wavelake and see what's you

1109
01:17:15,571 --> 01:17:21,591
know some of my friends are making because I know some of the people who are uploading music to

1110
01:17:21,591 --> 01:17:27,551
Wavelake you know and I see the people on Nostra doing it and I get to have a conversation with them

1111
01:17:27,551 --> 01:17:34,191
and zap them and then people see in Wavelake or Fountain you know what I sent to somebody and they

1112
01:17:34,191 --> 01:17:39,171
see it show up on Noster and then they go oh what's she listening to oh cool let me listen to

1113
01:17:39,171 --> 01:17:43,511
the song Heather's apt if she liked it maybe I'll like it or maybe I'll hate it maybe I don't like

1114
01:17:43,511 --> 01:17:49,171
what Heather likes you know maybe go get in there and find some heavy metal song that I want to

1115
01:17:49,171 --> 01:17:55,891
listen to but it's just the the more we get it out there to more people like I just I want an army of

1116
01:17:55,891 --> 01:18:02,751
Gen Z people out here just you know discovering songs on Wavelake discovering podcasts I want

1117
01:18:02,751 --> 01:18:07,551
more people to come and podcast you know come make your own radio detox you know come do your

1118
01:18:07,551 --> 01:18:11,091
own plug chain radio like there's there's no reason we oh that's not good kind of radio

1119
01:18:11,091 --> 01:18:19,931
but we we just we need we need more people joining the movement and taking it out to their fan and

1120
01:18:19,931 --> 01:18:25,511
their community or fans i should say you know we just need more participation so people are getting

1121
01:18:25,511 --> 01:18:30,111
their feet wet and seeing how it works because there's i think there's really no other way to do

1122
01:18:30,111 --> 01:18:35,671
it you know we have the technology we just need the people we just need the community that's all

1123
01:18:35,671 --> 01:18:42,731
you know the more i'm listening to this the more convinced i am that the way for nd artists to be

1124
01:18:42,731 --> 01:18:50,031
discovered is getting them on boarded on nostra and through the web of trust through your own

1125
01:18:50,031 --> 01:18:56,431
personalized view there's no central recommendation engine your recommendation engine is your friends

1126
01:18:56,431 --> 01:18:57,631
the people you trust.

1127
01:18:57,851 --> 01:18:58,531
That's how you get

1128
01:18:58,531 --> 01:19:00,051
to find the people you like.

1129
01:19:00,131 --> 01:19:00,851
And I think maybe

1130
01:19:00,851 --> 01:19:02,111
the answer was

1131
01:19:02,111 --> 01:19:03,371
in what you're saying, Heather,

1132
01:19:03,491 --> 01:19:04,551
which is

1133
01:19:04,551 --> 01:19:07,191
just start forking

1134
01:19:07,191 --> 01:19:09,071
apps on Nostra.

1135
01:19:09,171 --> 01:19:10,471
It's all open source, right?

1136
01:19:10,491 --> 01:19:11,211
If you don't like

1137
01:19:11,211 --> 01:19:13,391
one music app's working,

1138
01:19:13,471 --> 01:19:14,131
just make your own.

1139
01:19:14,251 --> 01:19:15,071
You can vibe code it.

1140
01:19:15,871 --> 01:19:17,991
You have hundreds of these

1141
01:19:17,991 --> 01:19:20,191
micro music apps

1142
01:19:20,191 --> 01:19:20,731
floating around.

1143
01:19:20,811 --> 01:19:21,711
They all interoperate

1144
01:19:21,711 --> 01:19:22,871
because they're all on Nostra.

1145
01:19:23,431 --> 01:19:25,331
Each finds its small niche.

1146
01:19:25,331 --> 01:19:29,371
And then the web of trust does this magic after that because it's all Noster.

1147
01:19:29,811 --> 01:19:31,411
The thousand true fans, Avi.

1148
01:19:31,791 --> 01:19:35,811
And by the way, I love the fact that she started off with Bill Clinton

1149
01:19:35,811 --> 01:19:39,291
and then somewhere weaved it to Derek Ross.

1150
01:19:39,611 --> 01:19:41,031
So kudos on that.

1151
01:19:41,751 --> 01:19:45,071
It's amazing the little web that I can weave, isn't it?

1152
01:19:45,771 --> 01:19:47,171
The water found its level, Heather.

1153
01:19:48,551 --> 01:19:49,731
I'm good at talking.

1154
01:19:49,871 --> 01:19:50,411
What can I say?

1155
01:19:55,331 --> 01:20:03,711
But yeah, I mean, I'm looking at, so I was looking at the milestones or the time, the time, the timeline of just title.

1156
01:20:04,771 --> 01:20:08,171
It was really launched in 2010.

1157
01:20:08,571 --> 01:20:10,491
So that's year 15 for them.

1158
01:20:10,491 --> 01:20:18,931
And there, you know, it doesn't seem like, and maybe that is, maybe you decentralize, maybe it's a thousand true fans for every small micro community.

1159
01:20:19,431 --> 01:20:23,751
And, you know, it creates this, this network effect.

1160
01:20:23,751 --> 01:20:30,771
But yeah, I mean, you've been to enough, Open Mike.

1161
01:20:31,111 --> 01:20:32,531
You've seen enough communities.

1162
01:20:33,271 --> 01:20:36,391
Granted, there's a lot of the same people because we are those.

1163
01:20:36,631 --> 01:20:38,631
We're a thousand true fans of our own people.

1164
01:20:39,571 --> 01:20:46,871
But has any communities seemed like they were a little bit better fit versus others in your explorations?

1165
01:20:48,111 --> 01:20:49,271
Fit for Noster?

1166
01:20:49,271 --> 01:20:51,651
Fit for Noster, live events.

1167
01:20:51,651 --> 01:20:59,511
the support, actually asking questions, seeming more interested in the mission.

1168
01:21:00,531 --> 01:21:08,511
I mean, I'll tell you, I was a private anon Bitcoiner for many years before Noster.

1169
01:21:09,211 --> 01:21:16,971
And if you just replace a couple of words in some of the basic sayings that we have about

1170
01:21:16,971 --> 01:21:22,731
like transparency and proof of work, all the stuff, you know, all the stuff that Bitcoiners

1171
01:21:22,731 --> 01:21:31,631
and ostriches talk about is really just straight out of an independent venue operator or an

1172
01:21:31,631 --> 01:21:32,131
independent.

1173
01:21:32,491 --> 01:21:33,931
I'm not obviously a musician.

1174
01:21:34,131 --> 01:21:43,231
Ainsley can speak for musicians, but the messages are just so in line if you can make the connection.

1175
01:21:43,231 --> 01:22:10,843
And so I believe firmly in the independent music is got to be one of the most logical spots to break Nostra and mainstream And that why I here So that that my that my deal Isn that funny though It just it just sometimes it it trigger words

1176
01:22:10,983 --> 01:22:17,623
just like it's trigger colors of orange men. It's just those little triggers that completely

1177
01:22:17,623 --> 01:22:26,143
derail a valid point. Yeah. I mean, it's completely contra. Yeah. It's for how

1178
01:22:26,143 --> 01:22:34,623
blinking red in the middle of the stage obvious it is to me it's just i always i stand in awe of

1179
01:22:34,623 --> 01:22:42,663
how hard it is to get other people to have that same experience of just you once you see it you

1180
01:22:42,663 --> 01:22:52,503
can't unsee it but like i just the the tiktok ban in january is the one where i just i my jaw was on

1181
01:22:52,503 --> 01:22:57,923
the ground for like two days that like these artists who had spent they'd done their 10,000

1182
01:22:57,923 --> 01:23:09,163
hours on on this platform that had no they had no control over and then boom rug hits even if

1183
01:23:09,163 --> 01:23:15,783
even if it only lasted for 48 hours or 36 hours whatever it was the wake-up call that this is a

1184
01:23:15,783 --> 01:23:24,023
possibility i i just i'm shocked that it didn't have a larger effect and maybe you know everything

1185
01:23:24,023 --> 01:23:30,883
happens for a reason i'm not a it's happening on a schedule that you know we we probably weren't

1186
01:23:30,883 --> 01:23:37,163
ready for that volume of of nostril attaching at the time but like yeah we were definitely not ready

1187
01:23:37,163 --> 01:23:42,923
back then but we're getting there why is that mike i mean not not why we're not ready for

1188
01:23:42,923 --> 01:23:52,063
that's fairly obvious that most is not funny why is it that when slapped in the face so obviously

1189
01:23:52,063 --> 01:23:59,343
people still don't see what's what's in front of them i mean i was literally in in rooms where

1190
01:23:59,343 --> 01:24:05,823
people were having meetings about tiktok alternatives that included the the ccp version

1191
01:24:05,823 --> 01:24:12,103
of tiktok it's like red what what was it called red note it was red note we were like we were gonna

1192
01:24:12,103 --> 01:24:17,443
like we had a marketing meeting about like do we need to get on red note and i just laughed i

1193
01:24:17,443 --> 01:24:21,843
literally laughed out loud and i was like you got to be kidding me like we're talking about red note

1194
01:24:21,843 --> 01:24:30,523
um and and that's when you know that's when blue sky and all that you know all the swifties went

1195
01:24:30,523 --> 01:24:36,023
to blue sky when elon did his elon thing and and there's been there's been several of these

1196
01:24:36,023 --> 01:24:38,403
occasions just in the last year.

1197
01:24:38,543 --> 01:24:39,983
Brazil banning Twitter.

1198
01:24:40,803 --> 01:24:42,523
Is this some kind of

1199
01:24:42,523 --> 01:24:43,803
collective Stockholm syndrome?

1200
01:24:44,803 --> 01:24:46,443
People are so in love with that

1201
01:24:46,443 --> 01:24:47,183
little cage.

1202
01:24:47,203 --> 01:24:48,123
You know what it is?

1203
01:24:49,963 --> 01:24:52,103
It's kind of like what Ainsley was saying

1204
01:24:52,103 --> 01:24:54,103
about the music, where people think

1205
01:24:54,103 --> 01:24:56,043
that they're in the

1206
01:24:56,043 --> 01:24:58,083
subscription plan and they're not going to spend

1207
01:24:58,083 --> 01:25:00,123
real... I mean, in the 90s, we used to go to Tower

1208
01:25:00,123 --> 01:25:02,043
Records, my old ass, would

1209
01:25:02,043 --> 01:25:04,043
buy... CDs were like $20

1210
01:25:04,043 --> 01:25:10,003
dollars a pop right so it's like for my generation paying 13 a month for unlimited music is like an

1211
01:25:10,003 --> 01:25:15,283
amazing advancement right but then you're locked into the subscription thing and you're you're used

1212
01:25:15,283 --> 01:25:20,583
to getting a lot for a little you know like she was mentioning that you know you get disney plus

1213
01:25:20,583 --> 01:25:25,783
and this that and the other with your subscription now you you're getting a lot of bonuses right

1214
01:25:25,783 --> 01:25:32,303
and so people they're they're not really spending the money to buy in as fans because it's like for

1215
01:25:32,303 --> 01:25:37,943
one low monthly fee, you get all this entertainment. And when it goes to social media, for nearly 20

1216
01:25:37,943 --> 01:25:42,243
years, you were getting your social media for free, right? You weren't paying for verification,

1217
01:25:42,663 --> 01:25:47,343
you weren't paying for a LinkedIn plan, you weren't paying for Twitter premium, you weren't paying for

1218
01:25:47,343 --> 01:25:52,083
all those things. And three years ago, when the Twitter handoff happened and went to Elon,

1219
01:25:52,923 --> 01:25:56,583
one thing I, you know, I worked in social media marketing at the time, I followed this really

1220
01:25:56,583 --> 01:26:03,543
closely and one thing i realized that people feel entitled to social media because for so many years

1221
01:26:03,543 --> 01:26:08,463
it came out of nowhere we got it for free before they ruined it and put all the ads in

1222
01:26:08,463 --> 01:26:16,543
and started charging subscription fees we got the internet and we got all the fun for free you know

1223
01:26:16,543 --> 01:26:22,683
and so nostor brings that back because it's free and then we're paying money to people who post like

1224
01:26:22,683 --> 01:26:30,083
memes because we can because there's lightning and we can send zaps uh but look at how how long

1225
01:26:30,083 --> 01:26:37,123
were you on nostr before you either received a zap or sent a zap or joined a zap-a-thon see there's

1226
01:26:37,123 --> 01:26:42,663
i think there's really an entitlement that the consumer has especially right now in in the way

1227
01:26:42,663 --> 01:26:49,163
the job market is and the way the inflation is i want to get more for less and i want my

1228
01:26:49,163 --> 01:26:53,643
entertainment i'm entitled to my entertainment i'm entitled to my internet i'm not gonna pay for

1229
01:26:53,643 --> 01:27:00,083
all this you can have my 13.99 a month or whatever it is you you can have my you know 18 a month for

1230
01:27:00,083 --> 01:27:06,323
for netflix but no more you know but so it's it's kind of a a tough sell but if you if you want art

1231
01:27:06,323 --> 01:27:11,903
you want to support independent art and not have a love island forced down your throat or whatever

1232
01:27:11,903 --> 01:27:17,823
that show is you know if you want to watch avi burra on indie hub and you want to watch finding

1233
01:27:17,823 --> 01:27:21,903
home, yeah, you know, that's not going to be part of your monthly

1234
01:27:21,903 --> 01:27:25,543
Netflix, you know, but do you want Avi on Netflix?

1235
01:27:25,543 --> 01:27:28,643
You know, you want Avi to remain independent.

1236
01:27:28,663 --> 01:27:30,563
It depends on how much they pay me, Heather.

1237
01:27:31,903 --> 01:27:34,703
Well, you know, if you go get that Joe Rogan-

1238
01:27:34,703 --> 01:27:35,943
It's generational wealth, Avi.

1239
01:27:36,783 --> 01:27:37,263
Yeah, yeah.

1240
01:27:37,783 --> 01:27:38,263
Lower your time profits.

1241
01:27:38,983 --> 01:27:39,963
Just do that, yeah.

1242
01:27:40,103 --> 01:27:40,723
That's up to you.

1243
01:27:41,583 --> 01:27:44,723
I think you'd get him to put the zap button on there for you.

1244
01:27:46,123 --> 01:27:47,243
He would, right?

1245
01:27:47,823 --> 01:27:51,083
You know, it's funny when you kept saying, I want, I want.

1246
01:27:51,183 --> 01:27:56,663
And I was thinking about that song, Mark Knopfler, Dire Straits, I Want My MTV.

1247
01:27:57,063 --> 01:27:59,803
And the whole song was about the hair band.

1248
01:27:59,983 --> 01:28:01,843
The hair band craze back in the day.

1249
01:28:02,163 --> 01:28:02,903
R.I.P.

1250
01:28:03,023 --> 01:28:04,703
It was like we were talking before we got on.

1251
01:28:04,883 --> 01:28:06,383
I want more.

1252
01:28:09,203 --> 01:28:10,183
Pour one out.

1253
01:28:10,423 --> 01:28:12,243
Pour one out for MTV, though.

1254
01:28:12,683 --> 01:28:14,903
It was all the hair bands taking over the time.

1255
01:28:14,983 --> 01:28:15,843
And look at that yo-yo.

1256
01:28:15,943 --> 01:28:16,943
That's the way you do it.

1257
01:28:17,003 --> 01:28:17,603
Money for nothing.

1258
01:28:17,603 --> 01:28:23,103
and chicks for free and it was kind of like that it was the whole production of it and you know he

1259
01:28:23,103 --> 01:28:28,603
was a real artist i mean i think he played seven different guitars uh and my favorite actually

1260
01:28:28,603 --> 01:28:35,423
mark knopfler but uh it's it was he was kind of his little war uh in the 80s you know but uh it's

1261
01:28:35,423 --> 01:28:42,643
funny because we've developed so far to where it's uh it's you literally get no money and your music's

1262
01:28:42,643 --> 01:28:49,643
for free so and and everybody wants their spotify mike i heard you saying it did you see the mtv

1263
01:28:49,643 --> 01:28:57,763
finally went off yeah i said pour one out for mtv sorry oh man institution 40 years yeah i was

1264
01:28:57,763 --> 01:29:03,763
curious i wonder what the vmas are gonna look like uh next next time if there is going to be a vmas if

1265
01:29:03,763 --> 01:29:11,023
like they're just going to be putting it on a name partner ship only well maybe a nostrich can buy the

1266
01:29:11,023 --> 01:29:13,083
IP for pennies and we can take it over.

1267
01:29:13,483 --> 01:29:13,743
Hey.

1268
01:29:15,143 --> 01:29:15,883
For sats.

1269
01:29:17,043 --> 01:29:18,723
No, we'll give them pennies, though.

1270
01:29:19,423 --> 01:29:21,063
They'll want pennies because they

1271
01:29:21,063 --> 01:29:23,223
don't get it. I think pennies are going to do

1272
01:29:23,223 --> 01:29:25,223
with MTV as well.

1273
01:29:26,263 --> 01:29:27,123
There's a whole

1274
01:29:27,123 --> 01:29:28,943
Nostra can fill. We can make music

1275
01:29:28,943 --> 01:29:31,183
videos and create our own new

1276
01:29:31,183 --> 01:29:32,263
Nostra MTV.

1277
01:29:32,943 --> 01:29:34,143
Somebody can vibe code that.

1278
01:29:34,143 --> 01:29:46,183
all right um that was like kind of a you know obby it's funny because we're right at uh i mean

1279
01:29:46,183 --> 01:29:53,183
we're 20 seconds away from 90 minutes and there was a very natural stop for us wasn't that oh yeah

1280
01:29:53,183 --> 01:30:00,903
and then it just it's like we knew and i didn't look at the clock it's uh we we're beaten we're

1281
01:30:00,903 --> 01:30:02,863
We got the Stockholm syndrome, Avi.

1282
01:30:02,983 --> 01:30:04,943
We know our times.

1283
01:30:06,443 --> 01:30:08,483
We wound down just naturally.

1284
01:30:09,783 --> 01:30:15,283
So before we wrap up here, Ainsley, anything you want to plug that's coming up?

1285
01:30:16,183 --> 01:30:21,263
Coming up, I mean, of course, we have our event here in Nashville at the park tomorrow night.

1286
01:30:21,763 --> 01:30:29,883
If you are in Nashville and you want to come to Nosterville or if you feel like spending a ridiculous amount of money

1287
01:30:29,883 --> 01:30:31,463
and getting a red eye to Nashville tonight,

1288
01:30:31,563 --> 01:30:32,443
that would be cool too.

1289
01:30:32,643 --> 01:30:34,903
But yeah, I mean, I would just say like,

1290
01:30:35,043 --> 01:30:37,583
I love how you guys always start your podcast

1291
01:30:37,583 --> 01:30:40,443
and the podcast I have with my friend, Katie,

1292
01:30:40,523 --> 01:30:42,323
we try to say the same thing.

1293
01:30:42,323 --> 01:30:45,063
We appreciate you listening anywhere,

1294
01:30:45,323 --> 01:30:50,083
but please, we really encourage you to support the art

1295
01:30:50,083 --> 01:30:52,003
and the podcast and the music that you love

1296
01:30:52,003 --> 01:30:56,183
on platforms like Wave Lake and Fountain and Indie Hub

1297
01:30:56,183 --> 01:30:59,063
that actually promote artist equity

1298
01:30:59,063 --> 01:31:00,743
and promote us getting paid

1299
01:31:00,743 --> 01:31:02,623
and being able to make a living

1300
01:31:02,623 --> 01:31:04,003
off of the art that we create

1301
01:31:04,003 --> 01:31:05,583
because I'm a firm believer.

1302
01:31:05,723 --> 01:31:06,963
I think everybody in this space

1303
01:31:06,963 --> 01:31:07,643
has heard me say it,

1304
01:31:07,663 --> 01:31:09,323
but artists can and should be able to live

1305
01:31:09,323 --> 01:31:10,523
off of the art that we create.

1306
01:31:11,243 --> 01:31:14,283
So please, please, please consider

1307
01:31:14,283 --> 01:31:15,783
supporting your favorite artists

1308
01:31:15,783 --> 01:31:17,143
on value-enabled platforms.

1309
01:31:17,743 --> 01:31:18,763
So yeah, I guess I'm just plugging

1310
01:31:18,763 --> 01:31:19,783
for the whole space right now.

1311
01:31:20,083 --> 01:31:22,623
I'll be back with new music to plug soon enough.

1312
01:31:23,523 --> 01:31:24,083
That's great.

1313
01:31:24,083 --> 01:31:28,123
And folks will be listening to this episode,

1314
01:31:28,123 --> 01:31:29,963
again hopefully on Fountain

1315
01:31:29,963 --> 01:31:31,883
on Saturday morning

1316
01:31:31,883 --> 01:31:33,503
so there's still time

1317
01:31:33,503 --> 01:31:36,183
because the event begins

1318
01:31:36,183 --> 01:31:37,943
at 2pm

1319
01:31:37,943 --> 01:31:40,403
at Bitcoin Park

1320
01:31:40,403 --> 01:31:42,303
in Nashville so if you're in Nashville and you're listening to

1321
01:31:42,303 --> 01:31:44,503
this Saturday morning come on over

1322
01:31:44,503 --> 01:31:46,583
Open mic

1323
01:31:46,583 --> 01:31:47,783
any closing thoughts?

1324
01:31:49,963 --> 01:31:50,503
No

1325
01:31:50,503 --> 01:31:52,043
thanks for having us this is great

1326
01:31:52,043 --> 01:31:54,303
it's great to be out at Bitcoin

1327
01:31:54,303 --> 01:31:55,703
Park with everybody here

1328
01:31:55,703 --> 01:31:58,183
what Ainsley said

1329
01:31:58,183 --> 01:32:02,403
and for those of you who aren't able to make it

1330
01:32:02,403 --> 01:32:07,143
the Zaps and the active chat room

1331
01:32:07,143 --> 01:32:11,043
on Zapstream, on Toonstir, on Primal

1332
01:32:11,043 --> 01:32:12,443
all the streaming fountain

1333
01:32:12,443 --> 01:32:17,803
that's what artists see who don't come in person

1334
01:32:17,803 --> 01:32:19,163
and so it's really important

1335
01:32:19,163 --> 01:32:21,563
that if you believe in this stuff

1336
01:32:21,563 --> 01:32:24,283
if you want to see this succeed

1337
01:32:24,283 --> 01:32:30,483
just get in there and talk shit in the chat room and send some zaps and interact with the artists

1338
01:32:30,483 --> 01:32:35,923
and it it really matters because these are all recorded these are all archived and and this is

1339
01:32:35,923 --> 01:32:44,643
what you know these are all models for for um other artists to to see later on so

1340
01:32:44,643 --> 01:32:53,363
love it and just a quick shout out here kw we we got a very generous zap from julie costello

1341
01:32:53,363 --> 01:32:55,243
Ainsley's mom so thank you

1342
01:32:55,243 --> 01:32:57,463
Julie for listening and also

1343
01:32:57,463 --> 01:32:59,603
a zap from Richard

1344
01:32:59,603 --> 01:33:01,403
Greaser who I met you

1345
01:33:01,403 --> 01:33:02,923
mentioned him earlier QW

1346
01:33:02,923 --> 01:33:05,343
I had the chance to meet him today

1347
01:33:05,343 --> 01:33:07,383
and I've got to say he looks exactly

1348
01:33:07,383 --> 01:33:08,963
like his profile picture

1349
01:33:08,963 --> 01:33:10,343
and he sounds

1350
01:33:10,343 --> 01:33:12,783
exactly the way he sounds

1351
01:33:12,783 --> 01:33:15,443
I mean have you ever been

1352
01:33:15,443 --> 01:33:17,063
can you feel the credentials

1353
01:33:17,063 --> 01:33:19,303
when you talk? Oh they're emanating

1354
01:33:19,303 --> 01:33:21,303
they're yeah they're

1355
01:33:21,303 --> 01:33:22,343
radiating from him

1356
01:33:22,343 --> 01:33:25,483
But that voice, it's unmistakable.

1357
01:33:25,723 --> 01:33:26,343
And that face.

1358
01:33:28,023 --> 01:33:31,823
Avi, there was another launch after our show.

1359
01:33:32,043 --> 01:33:32,863
Noah Grumman.

1360
01:33:34,563 --> 01:33:37,803
She's joined Sabaton, the legendary tour.

1361
01:33:38,303 --> 01:33:43,683
She's actually going to be a lead singer, host, conductor, and choir leader for the legendary orchestra.

1362
01:33:44,123 --> 01:33:44,843
She is the.

1363
01:33:44,895 --> 01:33:47,615
Orchestra QW, she is leading the hell.

1364
01:33:47,675 --> 01:33:48,815
It's amazing what happens when you come on

1365
01:33:48,815 --> 01:33:49,535
Plugchain Radio.

1366
01:33:49,915 --> 01:33:51,455
Yeah, that's what happens.

1367
01:33:53,495 --> 01:33:55,435
Heather, any closing thoughts?

1368
01:33:56,615 --> 01:33:58,715
What Mike said, spend your Bitcoin.

1369
01:33:58,915 --> 01:34:01,415
We need participation for this thing to fly.

1370
01:34:01,575 --> 01:34:03,595
You've got to show up and show out

1371
01:34:03,595 --> 01:34:05,695
and spend that Bitcoin

1372
01:34:05,695 --> 01:34:07,155
and be a part of the community.

1373
01:34:07,635 --> 01:34:08,955
And if you don't want to spend your Bitcoin,

1374
01:34:09,595 --> 01:34:11,655
we're going to regress back to US dollars

1375
01:34:11,655 --> 01:34:14,275
to spend your Bitcoin.

1376
01:34:14,275 --> 01:34:19,435
And, you know, participation means this is open source and that the future of Nostra is up to us.

1377
01:34:19,475 --> 01:34:25,155
There's no big company, no big CEO other than Derek Ross driving this whole thing.

1378
01:34:25,415 --> 01:34:31,075
So open source of things, you know, build the next big app, bring the next big idea.

1379
01:34:31,315 --> 01:34:36,095
You know, the ecosystem is dependent on you showing up and taking part.

1380
01:34:36,275 --> 01:34:37,555
So please do that.

1381
01:34:37,995 --> 01:34:43,715
Stop spending war bucks, the war bucks, you know, defund the war, fix the money, fix the world.

1382
01:34:44,275 --> 01:34:46,775
anything from you Avi

1383
01:34:46,775 --> 01:34:49,195
no it just like I said

1384
01:34:49,195 --> 01:34:50,035
if you all

1385
01:34:50,035 --> 01:34:50,755
is there going to be a book

1386
01:34:50,755 --> 01:34:51,875
wait let's talk about it

1387
01:34:51,875 --> 01:34:52,515
is there going to be

1388
01:34:52,515 --> 01:34:53,455
any book signings

1389
01:34:53,455 --> 01:34:54,295
tomorrow in Nosterville

1390
01:34:54,295 --> 01:34:55,535
no no

1391
01:34:55,535 --> 01:34:57,655
the sequel to 24

1392
01:34:57,655 --> 01:34:58,675
is still

1393
01:34:58,675 --> 01:35:00,115
a couple of weeks away

1394
01:35:00,115 --> 01:35:02,135
a little over two weeks away

1395
01:35:02,135 --> 01:35:03,335
I am hoping

1396
01:35:03,335 --> 01:35:04,935
I am lined up

1397
01:35:04,935 --> 01:35:05,735
for a book signing

1398
01:35:05,735 --> 01:35:07,015
at Bitfest

1399
01:35:07,015 --> 01:35:08,415
in Manchester

1400
01:35:08,415 --> 01:35:09,635
so but that's

1401
01:35:09,635 --> 01:35:10,095
that's about

1402
01:35:10,095 --> 01:35:24,687
a month away from now very nice yeah And then did you mention the promo code for the Finding Home episode two

1403
01:35:25,567 --> 01:35:26,507
Yes, I did.

1404
01:35:26,687 --> 01:35:27,967
But I will mention it again.

1405
01:35:28,107 --> 01:35:30,527
You can watch Finding Home on India.

1406
01:35:31,647 --> 01:35:32,367
Go ahead.

1407
01:35:32,587 --> 01:35:33,007
Go ahead.

1408
01:35:33,067 --> 01:35:33,967
Yeah, finish that thought.

1409
01:35:33,967 --> 01:35:39,087
And you can get 21% off by using promo code

1410
01:35:39,087 --> 01:35:40,827
Pioneer Chain 21.

1411
01:35:41,907 --> 01:35:44,007
Also, since I mentioned BitFest,

1412
01:35:44,347 --> 01:35:46,667
you can get 10% off tickets there.

1413
01:35:46,847 --> 01:35:48,547
It promises to be one of the highest

1414
01:35:48,547 --> 01:35:49,867
signal conferences of the year.

1415
01:35:50,747 --> 01:35:52,467
For using promo code

1416
01:35:52,467 --> 01:35:54,147
PlepChainRadio, one word,

1417
01:35:54,967 --> 01:35:57,327
there will be a Bitcoin Film Festival

1418
01:35:57,327 --> 01:35:59,887
that's being organized by our friends

1419
01:35:59,887 --> 01:36:02,767
Azar and Tomek as part of that,

1420
01:36:03,447 --> 01:36:05,807
as well as Nustashar.

1421
01:36:06,867 --> 01:36:07,267
Nusta.

1422
01:36:07,267 --> 01:36:09,567
So I don't know how you pronounce it.

1423
01:36:09,947 --> 01:36:10,787
Nostaschershire.

1424
01:36:12,067 --> 01:36:12,507
Yeah.

1425
01:36:13,407 --> 01:36:15,887
No one knows how to say Worcestershire.

1426
01:36:17,387 --> 01:36:17,907
Worcestershire.

1427
01:36:18,787 --> 01:36:19,067
Yeah.

1428
01:36:19,187 --> 01:36:19,627
Anyways.

1429
01:36:20,027 --> 01:36:20,247
Yeah.

1430
01:36:20,387 --> 01:36:20,727
Sorry.

1431
01:36:20,987 --> 01:36:22,967
We're just so, I know you are, Avi.

1432
01:36:22,967 --> 01:36:23,667
You're very humble.

1433
01:36:23,667 --> 01:36:27,387
So I just wanted to make sure you had your chance to spill the beans some more.

1434
01:36:28,027 --> 01:36:29,847
So thank you everyone for coming.

1435
01:36:30,227 --> 01:36:32,527
Thank you for tuning in to Pleb Chain Radio.

1436
01:36:32,527 --> 01:36:38,947
If you appreciate us as much as we appreciate you, listen on Fountain App and consider hitting the subscribe.

1437
01:36:39,507 --> 01:36:41,367
Thank you very much. See you next week.

1438
01:36:42,027 --> 01:36:42,627
Goodbye.