The noise of the week is behind us.
The feed is off.
The record is spinning.
It's time to stop interviewing and start listening.
Welcome to Sunday Brunch.
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening, you indubitably inspiring instigators of intergalactic insurrections.
Welcome to the 10th serving, or sorry, the 11th serving of Sunday Brunch.
And today is, you guessed it, Sunday.
It is the 22nd of March and very much brunch time on the east coast of the United States.
Which can only mean one thing.
Your favorite music on the lightning-laced airwaves.
Now, settle in.
This is not your regular podcast.
I don't have any questions prepared.
I don't have a sermon.
And I won't be asking our guest about central bank digital currencies being used to track your grocery list.
There's just a table, some coffee, and a record player.
The guest is the DJ here.
and because there is no corporate sponsor in the booth
you are the ones keeping the coffee pot full
this is a valley for value production
I don't run ads
this show runs on Vibe
if you enjoyed the selection today
you can throw some sats in the digital tip jar
by boosting on Fountain
or your favorite podcasting 2.0 app
or zapping on Noster
Here's the house rule
When the needle drops, the sets follow
90% of everything you stream or boost during a song goes directly to the artist
You are tipping the band
When the music fades and we're just chatting
You're buying a round for the guest and me
And my guest today is someone who cares deeply about the arts
and more importantly, does something about it.
Buttercup Roberts is here,
and she's brought her own playlist with her.
We're going to spin some tracks,
we're going to talk about whatever topics emerge
in the silences between the music,
and give everyone listening a chance
to enter this decompression chamber after a long week.
So, let that butter melt into the waffle.
Take your time.
Buttercup, welcome to Sunday Brunch.
Thank you very much, Javi. It's very nice to be here with you.
Absolutely, Buttercup. I think this might be the first time, well, we've been on a call or two in the past,
which we can get into when we talk about Biccon for the Arts.
But I think this is certainly the first time you're on my podcast,
and you've been a fairly active participant and user of Noster
and the general art scene, the Bitcoin art scene,
the Valley for Valley scene for a while now.
Isn't that right?
Yeah, I mean, I first heard about Noster like three years ago
when on Twitter Jack made the march off Twitter,
hashtag go public.
And ever since, it's been a very interesting discovery and it really clicked a lot for me.
Like on one side, the discovery of what owning your own identity could mean.
and on the other side
I think that many Bitcoiners have found in Noster
an easy proof of concept
of what Bitcoin on rails
in social media
if you want to call it that
even though it's much more than that could do
so yeah it's been an interesting years of exploration
especially since the space has grown
so much and so much other stuff has grown from it as well.
Yeah, certainly.
And you have a background in the arts, isn't that right?
Yeah, I like the art scene in many fields.
I come from a film background.
I've also done some VR pieces.
I just like writing as well.
Now I'm writing a story that I'm hoping that I can finish at some point this year.
I'm very envious of you and your prolific writing.
By the way, I finished the sequel to 24.
I finished July 2018.
What did you think of it, by the way?
This is not about my book, but I'm just curious.
I really enjoyed it.
And as I did with the first one, I'm going to be writing the review soon.
So you will definitely know it.
But I really love the way that you weave in storytelling concepts that are very dear to the Bitcoin community, the ethos around it.
And I think it's a pulsating story that leads you through a key concept that maybe, for lack of another word, normie literature doesn't really take you through.
So I really enjoyed it.
Congratulations on the work.
No, no.
Thank you.
And thank you for reading and being a supporter of my work.
By the way, just a quick aside.
Again, I really don't want to make this about my writing.
But it is about the arts.
So it makes sense.
That we talk about it.
I'm actually writing.
I know for anyone who's read July 18th, obviously it does not end.
The story does not end.
So there needs to be book three.
But I'm actually close to completing a book, another book under a pseudonym, which has nothing to do with Bitcoin.
because one of the things I noticed is,
I mean, anyone who's read these two books,
they tend to be Bitcoiners.
I would say they're 95 to 99% Bitcoiners, right?
And they get it.
But it's really hard for a book like 24 July 18
to break into the mainstream
because it's so esoterically Bitcoin related.
And I really liked my archetypes
and some of the narrative arcs.
And I want more people in the world to read it and not be put off by the B word.
So I've decided to, something you know a thing or two about, buttercup under a pseudonym.
Right.
And so I'm throwing down the gauntlet.
It'll be out.
I suspect it'll do really well, actually.
I don't even suspect.
I'm almost certain.
I've written it basically for Netflix or Amazon streaming, right?
One of those.
it's that type of story.
So throwing down the challenge to folks
to see if you can figure out who,
what my identity is, my pseudonym is,
it'll be interesting.
But anyway, that aside,
so let's talk about your film background.
Did you go to film school?
Yeah, I went to film school.
I, since I was little,
I was very enamored by what film
had been able to do in me the way that watching films had opened up worlds and had impacted me
so much. So I knew that I wanted to study something that could have an impact
in people in the same way that films had had an impact in me. And as I learned filmmaking,
I was for many years in the film industry doing films and being part of the creative process,
as well but i did grow a little bit uh disenchanted with what i saw the industry to be versus what you
feel movies when you're watching them so and i also feel that everything has has changed so much
in the way that people watch movies and i'm gonna word use the word consume content now more than
let themselves like be captivated and drawn by a story during one hour and a half two hours
so then I after having spent a lot of years in the film industry I wanting to broaden my horizons
and seeing what other artistic fields could do in terms of that impact um filmmaking is always
something that is very close to me and I still have projects that have to do with the film
industry right now I'm developing two projects in my fiat life to call it a way that that that
will probably land in the in in that world but but I did notice at some point that
that I wanted more than just to stay inside that field
yeah do you know zach mahoney from indie hub uh i mean i don't know him but i heard an interview
that you did uh with him and i i empathize a lot with the with with what he was talking about
actually uh i did a a series on on the the bridge on the bridge um end pub that i have where i used
a couple of character and cartoon characters who comments on this stuff or thoughts.
I did a series that had to do with the initiatification of the movie industry that was inspired by
the talk that you had with them.
Oh, wow.
I did not know that.
I want to talk about The Bridge.
And so we'll circle back to this because I think where you started going with your background
and firm it just reminded me of what zach was saying um and i've and and also not just on the
podcast but on in private conversations i've had with him but before we do that buttercup
uh you've got a playlist you've picked out five songs and i want to play the first one on it and
It is Moments by a band called Citron Grau.
So tell me a little bit about this band and the song that you picked.
Okay.
Out of my entire playlist, this one, Moments by Citron Grau,
was the first band that I heard on Wavelake
when I discovered Wavelake a few months back.
and I started browsing and checking some things.
Citroen Grau was someone who had been in my feed
and I had spoken with them on Noster at some point
and I saw that they had music
and it's music that really just gave me some vibes
that I really enjoyed
and I found myself playing it and playing it
and I think that it was the first time
that I actually felt that click of
I'm going to zap this person because I'm just enjoying this song so much that I just want to zap them because it's giving me value.
I'm putting it all the time.
So I guess that it's the first one that really created that spark in me.
All of the playlists that I've selected for today has been more of many of the other ones were just trying to find and perusing Wavelake, trying to hear what different things were.
But I guess that moments by Sih Tung Rao, the first one, was the one that months ago really made me understand the quick value for value element with music and how powerful it could be to really thank the person who has made you feel something with a song with an instant zap.
it sounds so simple and yet it's it's actually profound in a sense that to have that direct
connection especially in light of um fiat music or the fiat music industry that really we we have
to deal with right and and if you're not a biker and if you're not part of this world that that's
all you know which is there is no way you will ever be in any form of contact with the musician
who's inspired you with their art
because there are layers and layers and layers
of wrench seekers in between you and them So it is quite a profound moment when this clicks saying hey I can directly express my gratitude by zapping them value
and they will see it.
I can put a message on it.
And oftentimes they actually reply to it
if there's a nice message as well.
So yeah, really cool.
This is Moments by Citron Grau.
Thank you.
That was Moments by Citron Grau.
And Buttercup, that was a beautiful atmospheric piece,
um a nice melancholic arpeggiated i'm going to say keyboard uh evokes the piano uh
yeah in a sense but uh yeah that was nice very smooth song yeah kind of instrumental that you
could imagine being the soundtrack for something soundtrack of your life soundtrack since i think
still think in film you know i can easily envision stuff happening to that music oh yeah yeah
definitely a film soundtrack maybe in one of those um who uh not gaspard noe who was the guy who
who made emily uh of the the french director um it's not gaspard noe i will i'll look it up when
the next song is playing it'll come back to me yes i can't remember his name i have a blackout
right now but no definitely not gaspard very different kind of movies very different yes
amelie and irreversible are probably polar opposite uh movies in in many ways
although gaspard has has a movie that's called climax that has an incredible soundtrack
okay all right i don't think i've seen that i did see another one that he made which speaking
of polar opposite of irreversible uh is it's that it's like a slow pastoral type movie and it even
might have again the audrey tattoo that's the name of the actress in in amelie i think it has
audrey tattoo in it um that sort of slow pastoral kind of movie if you see irreversible and you see
that in like what this cannot be the same director yeah no very different kind of french filmmaking
let's see amelie i'm trying to remember but he also made um he's made a few movies the director
of Amelie. Jean-Pierre Jeunet. Jean-Pierre Jeunet. That's it.
Jean-Pierre Jeunet. Yes. So I can imagine this in a
Jean-Pierre Jeunet movie.
It's a soundtrack to, you know, one of those slightly
not one of the action sequences, but maybe when the protagonist
is sort of trying to find out or is about to find a crucial
piece of information and they're sort of tiptoeing down an alleyway
and going down some stairs.
Anyway.
I can, without making any spoilers,
I can imagine this being a soundtrack to the last month,
the month that gives a title to your second book,
when characters are going to a place, a very special place.
This could be sound.
Yeah, very possibly, very possibly.
Because that's instrumental music, right?
You can really just place it in so many places.
Yeah.
So, Batacab, let's talk about the bridge which you brought up, which is a second Nostra account that you run.
And I keep seeing it on the feed.
And I know you're focused quite a bit on things like privacy and data controls and that sort of you're educating the public on that.
what was the your thinking behind creating the bridge because you are as you said a film person
and here you are talking about data rights talking about you know stuff actually i said we're not
going to talk about central bank digital currencies but you do talk about stuff like that on that
account yes that's true i mean the bridge is something that is not a project that is only my
own. I do it with someone else that created an MPub called Security Breach, but they are not
very active on Nostrid. They just lurk from time to time. But it's a project that came from,
I guess, when you start going down the many rabbit holes that privacy, Bitcoin, and all that opens,
you start putting together a worldview that suddenly you have plenty of concepts of things
that you want to try to see if you can actually explain them to your friends,
you know, to just regular people who don't spend any time thinking about this.
And maybe sometimes when you try to bring up some of these concepts,
Like if you have to talk to someone about Bitcoin and you need seven hours to make them go through what you spent years going down, it's probably not a very good approach.
So in that spirit, we wanted to create an account where different topics and things that had risen that either had to do with, sometimes it had to do with Bitcoin and sometimes it just had to do with, I don't know, for example, in Europe right now, we have chat control.
In the U.S., there is the Kids Online Safety Act and understanding all these initiatives worldwide of how ID verification was affecting how people and users worldwide are going to be able to access and experience the web.
and when you start figuring out what all this means you want to know if you really understand
it and they always say that if you really understand something you have to be able to
explain it to a five-year-old and really um bring the concepts down to stuff that is digestible and
clear and so the bridge came out of that of wanting to with these kinds of sometimes it's
just a poster sometimes it's a comic vignette um at some point um i did do an article as well
that had to do with the noster that the the original one was in in spanish because i wanted
to have an article to draw to my friends too of um they quiero mudate conmigo a noster which is
I love you, move in with me to Noster, you know, of not wanting to just leave behind people.
No, I see so, so much people in this space like, oh, well, if they don't understand, then then I don't have time to educate you.
And I am an educator. I teach. I come from the film storytellers, I think, that have a natural tendency of trying to grab stuff that are important to them
and make it digestible and emotional for people.
So I guess that the bridge was trying to have a space on one side
to not crowd my end pub with stuff that had to do only with that.
So it was like, okay, I'm going to create an end pub
that is going to be for the bridge.
And every time that there is a topic that I find important
or something that I want to make a reflection about
or that we talk about with this colleague that we do stuff with,
then it will be that vehicle.
And so that's how The Bridge was born.
I think it was born in July of last year
and been trying to figure out its identity.
We always knew that we wanted it to be with these two characters,
this cat bat, a bat cat, or however you want to call it.
But it's an animated character that is a half cat, half bat.
black and another one which is like a turtle dragon and they are both facing the world where
some ostriches wants to want to keep their their head in the ground and not see the world for what
it is and some other ostriches are open to to seeing new things no so it's kind of like a vehicle
for that. I wonder if, you know, largely going the animated route, given your background in film,
right? I mean, you presumably have more insight in how to think about frames, how to think about
scenes and all of that stuff, right? And I don't think you're, you're not, you don't have an
animation background, do you?
I don't. No.
I don't, but I do love animation.
And there is
a project that
I mean, here for example
for the bridge, it's not something that
we feel is so far off of this
ending up being something
that ends up being
animation in some style.
Well, and I
think where I was going with this is
that AI tools are getting so good
this that you all you have to do is put the frames static frames together and it'll be able to stitch
stuff interpolate uh movements and and fairly natural movements between frames the static frames
uh and i i think this is a hypothesis a strong one i dare say that if you go down the two to three
minute animated vignette route where it's sort of packed information right you you know the story
you want to tell uh or you know you you know the message you want to give whether it's about chat
control whether it's about you know whatever it is data rights privacy uh and then you just figure
out the story because it's two three minutes it's not that much work to come up with a story and you
have your two characters and as you know as you you've what the account's been around for a few
You said July of last year.
So by now they have their own personas, right?
So they have their own voices.
I think, you know, where Nostra is with that,
with the two three minute animated vignette with a powerful message obviously you need subtitles because a lot of people watch these things on mute But maybe for those who don you can have music like this
like the Citron Grout, what we listen to.
You can maybe bake in some value-for-value splits
for the musician.
That's something that I feel very interesting of how,
I mean, even the way that you have this whole show set up
of the splits and everything.
That's something that has really piqued my attention
of seeing how we can really create a new distribution model
with Noster that really empowers artists
to share splits of the value that they create.
Yeah.
You know, I gave myself the goal at the beginning of this year
where I sort of recast the show with Plep Chain Radio.
he changed the background music, changed the format, had Sunday brunch,
that this is the year I'm going to crack Valley for Value and prove.
I'm laughing because at this point, it's still absurd.
Prove that you can make a living of Valley for Value.
So three months into the year, I'm going to be really generous to myself
and say that I've been met with limited success.
We're not yet at the point where these splits are windfalls of revenue for musicians.
I mean, I think that we're not there yet.
And I mean, let's be honest, how many do people make really at Spotify, right?
In terms of musicians.
So there are few who can really live out of the current model, just out of what they get of streams, right?
But if the Rails work and the value proposition is successful, right now, I remember the other day, I think, I don't remember if it was UTXO or who was saying that there is only really 5,000 active users on Noster.
I mean, if this is the results that we're getting from 5,000 people, if we really get this going, and you did talk about it before, we do know that the B word turns off a lot of people.
the b word turns off a lot of people and we're a lot of people talking about the b word constantly
on monster but i think that little by little if this really ends up growing that's where
scale matters and right now scale for making a living matters um right now i feel that we're
mostly just setting the rails and making sure i mean until a few months ago doing splits properly
was still very much a hurdle.
And I don't even know,
I know that Fountain has made huge advances for music,
but there is still a lot to be worked on on those rails
to make it so that the experience that you're offering
is just better than what's out there.
Yeah.
I do want to come back and talk about the active user
on NOSTA, the B word, and how do we drive adoption?
Because it's an important topic.
By the way, I agree that it's in that 5,000-ish ballpark.
My company, NOS Fabrica, we're working on Web of Trust
and how to filter out a lot of the spam and bots.
We're coming to that similar ballpark as well
through our analysis of the network.
So I don't want to come back to that.
Why don't we play your second song on the playlist,
which the folks on the live stream can see
because I'm doing a screen share.
but for the benefit of
the audience listening to the podcast
it's Hit and Run
by Amber Sweeney
now I have to confess Buttercup
this is a name I've heard
a few times on Nostra, Amber Sweeney
I haven't really scratched the surface
or listened to any of the music
before
can you tell us a little bit
or tell me actually
maybe the audience knows already
but can you tell me a little bit about Amber Sweeney
I have to confess I can't really tell you a lot about Amber Sweeney because she has been a discovery of searching for songs for the show for you. I really went on a deep dive on Wavelake and I just started listening at people randomly that when we come back from Amber's song we can go back to talking about this onboarding thing because it has to do with it.
But I just heard her music and I, I, this song made me reminisce of a kind of music that, that I, that I used to listen to.
And I thought it was fun and, and the title screamed for my attention.
And, but I know that I looked her up and I saw that she was active on her, but it was like, I don't, I don't remember if it was months ago or a year ago or something like that.
But I did see that they were active on Nostra until a certain point and that she had a dog.
That's all that I can say.
Just the music spoke to me, but I don't really know much about her.
It's just the music that spoke.
Excellent.
Well, this is Hit and Run by Amber Sweeney.
To be sold
And what she's made of
There was a blinding light
Followed by the terror of the night
Well, no one saw it
But we all could hear the sound
Of love breaking down
It was a hit and run
She couldn't take it as she came undone
He took her money and her pride
But the devil in her mind
Said she wasn't worth the fight
She packed a loaded gun
And knew they'd find her when the morning comes
But they would listen to her words
She'd make sure they heard what he'd done
I let him hold my heart
Then he took me for granted
He said he'd leave the grave
Then he left us stranded
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
He put me in chains and he took my name
Said he'd never know me
So I took back what was mine
With a hit and run
Hit and run
With a hit and run
Hit and run
It was a hit and run
She couldn't take it and she came on down
He took her money under pride
With the devil in her mind
Said she wasn't worth the fight
And with the morning light
She knew her age had been satisfied
They surrounded her with guns
But she wouldn't run
Cause she knew what she'd done
I let him hold my heart
Then I took him for granted
I said I'd leave the way
Then I left us stranded
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Put on chains and remove my name
All because I love it soon
Then I blew it all away
With a hit and run
Hit and run
With a hit and run
Hit and run
With a hit and run
Hit and run
It was a hit and run.
That was Hit and Run by Amber Sweeney.
A little bit of just a passing resemblance to Amy Winehouse there.
I don't know if you caught that, Buttercup.
Now that you say there may be a little bit of hint of that yet,
But it just really, I don't know, it just seemed fun.
But I didn't know anything about Amber's music until I did this Wavelake dive.
So what I'm hearing is this music world, right?
Diving at Wavelake.
By the way, did you look at the Fountain Music Catalog as well?
I didn't.
I tried to find it.
I only use Fountain to listen to my podcast
And when we spoke about doing this
And bringing you music for the show
I started to look into my app
My Fountain app
And I only found the music feed
And I didn't find it very easy to find the music
And all that
So I just thought I'm going back to Wavelake and see what I found there.
But maybe it was just because I spent a few minutes and just couldn't see it in a catalog format.
But it may be just that I didn't click where I had to click, you know.
Well, no, it's actually good feedback to the Fountain team, right?
Which is, you are a fairly sophisticated NOSTA user.
You've been using NOSTA for a while, right?
And so Oscar, Nick, Davidas, if you guys are listening, just some food for thought here, which is it wasn't immediately obvious for Buttercup to how to search for music when she went to Fountain.
You could see the trending tracks and at least, you know, in the same way that in Wavelake you have like the top 40. But whenever you wanted to really just go into finding a catalog and seeing what is there.
I say this from the love
because I know that the team
that Fountain and the team at Wavelake
in the end they are
working on stuff that we all benefit from
but I do feel that
I found it hard to
be able to really
explore the music
and find the catalogs
and navigate
for example genres
of trying to know what I was going for
you know I found myself
For example, in Wavelake, if I wanted to go beyond the top 40, I had to go to the catalog and the catalog was a list of names that I really didn't know anything about.
And suddenly, you know, I actually posted on Nostra about it and I tagged Wavelake like, hey, I think it would really benefit the user experience.
You know how we're used in a music store to just browse covers, you know, album covers or stuff like that.
I think that there is still some stuff in terms of user experience and what we were talking before the song as well of bringing people over who are used to the Spotify's and the band cams and the SoundCloud.
of making it easy for them.
Discovery, I feel, is something that still can be a little perfected.
Absolutely, right?
I think one of the areas where NOSTA in general, right,
and music is, you can feel it acutely,
but data on NOSTA in general would benefit from
is better curation and better discovery.
obviously a fairly complicated problem to solve in a decentralized system it's very easy in a
centralized system there's one database one database so you can build whatever an elastic
search or something like that that helps people find stuff easily but i think people are it's it's
you raise a great point and i and people are aware of it and i think the reason it's taking this long
is because it's such a complicated problem to solve
in a decentralized way.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that this kind of show
really helps a lot with the discovery, for example.
I mean, some of the songs that I've discovered
have to do with listening to it
in a value-for-value show
where they put you songs there
and suddenly there is people recommending it But it something that obviously is a very complicated task and there not one single solution
And it's something that it's still going to take us time to get there.
Yeah.
I think shows like this, and there are others as well, right?
The list is growing recently, especially for Valley for Valley music shows.
they're not necessarily as plugged into NOSTA as I am.
I just bring my NOSTA baggage with me wherever I go.
But in an ideal world, shows like this are one arm of the flywheel,
giving it momentum.
And what I mean by that is this is what should happen ideally.
I don't think it's quite happening yet.
is we do the work and on this show,
the guest does the work to find the songs.
But they get featured here.
The people who listen to this show,
how many other people listen to it?
And ideally, they start boosting the songs
using these splits, which are baked in.
Those boosts and potentially zaps even
make the song trend on Fountain and Wavelake.
And once they do, they come to the top
and make the discovery easier.
That's what should be happening in an ideal world.
Now, as we've been finding in general
in the Valley for Valley space,
money doesn't flow that easily, right?
Or it's very non-uniform.
There are a certain number of shows
that get boosted and zapped a lot,
and then there's a long tail that just kind of get, you know,
it dwindles over those shows.
Yeah, and I think as well, I know that there has been many ideas
about how to incentivize that people that spend time curating
and doing playlists and sharing can really add to that discovery
and in a way it does.
but I guess that we're just on the
road right and it's what you were saying that for the moment
it's still something that
I have to say it's pretty new you know
it's pretty new it's still rough at the edges
in some places but I think that little by little
as well I remember when I was hearing one of your interviews
I think that it was with Open Mic, I think, that had a lot to do with the limitations that artists that have other contractual commitments face when being able to really not share music on Noster or not premiere music here.
So I think that we're also on one side, we have to perfect the UX and the UI to make it so that artists that have nothing to do with Noster and just not artists, but the users who could be wanting to discover new music can do it easily.
But on the other side, we are facing a very big leviathan of contractual law that makes it so that the access to the music is very fractured.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Many, many things that we that we must prevail against.
But since Spotify is going in this trend of having so much AI music and using their algorithms to get more money for the AI music, then maybe we end up having some more human driven, smaller, like Noster now with the 5000 people, smaller with a lot of generous souls wanting to make value for value work, you know?
Yeah. Narrow and deep rather than shallow and wide.
Yep.
As you get, but, but, okay.
So you mentioned the 5,000 users and growing Nostra.
And one of the things we were talking about was,
was talking the B word Bitcoin and how that's a big turnoff to quote unquote
normies, right?
They're like, Oh, who are these crypto crazies?
What are they talking about? I don't want to be here.
I'm going to go back to Blue Sky where we're talking about,
I don't know what they talk about on Blue Sky.
One of the, so in the early,
for the first year or two, I was on Noster.
And this is a topic that came up a lot, right?
Oh, we need to grow Noster.
We need to stop talking about Bitcoin.
And my counter argument always was,
look, I came to Noster to be myself.
It's the one place on the internet
where you can be your authentic self
and you will be heard.
I mean, now, if your authentic self is an absolutely horrible human being,
chances are you'll be muted.
But within an acceptable range,
and that's a fairly broad range of human behaviors,
if you're your authentic self, chances are you'll find the people,
you'll find your tribe, even if it's two or three or ten people, right?
You'll find them.
so me being my authentic self is talking about bitcoin i came to nostril to be my authentic self
and now you're telling me i should stop being my authentic self which is what i was having to do on
these fiat platforms right to try and game the algorithm to to be heard so that was always my
pushback that look i i'm here because i can be myself and being myself is talking about bitcoin
So I'm going to talk about Bitcoin.
I agree.
I think that it's a fish that bites its tail because we want to be able to talk about things that we care about.
Most Bitcoiners care about these kinds of the stuff that your intro says we weren't going to talk about.
So we're not going to go deep into that.
But we do care about these kind of things.
And we care about privacy.
And we care about monetary freedom.
and all of that jazz.
And that makes it so that on one side,
that is the kind of post and engagement and content
that gets the most zapped.
Because in the end, it's also Bitcoiners
who care about that content.
And it's them who see the value of sending you sats
and sending you a money that for Bitcoiners
is like the best tip you can get, right?
It's the, you'd rather get SATs than get anything else.
So people who come, I've tried to onboard many people into Noster.
And what I've found is that they maybe try to put in the effort of, oh, wow, there is
this potential of earning SATs.
And they feel that they are being themselves as well in the other platforms.
It's not like they feel that they are not, you know, but suddenly they see that maybe
the content that they are putting out is not getting the same acceptance as other content is.
Also, the barrier of entry for Noster, like literally you start from a blank page, you know,
if you don't know who anyone is and you start from scratch, you basically follow the friend
who onboarded you to Noster and you either let yourself be recommended by the algorithm that
primal recommends at the beginning or yakihon recommends at the beginning and suddenly you have
a feed full of stuff that that you're not really interested in um but it's true that it's a fish
that buys a sale because the ones that really find value in that stuff and are willing to part
with their sats and tip you are people who are going to be in this and i mean this in as being
part of the Bitcoin eco-chamber. No, but it's the people from the eco-chamber that finally have
people like them that like to talk about this stuff, that miss being able to talk about that
maybe in their real life. So I don't know. I feel that for the moment, people feel like they have to
leave too much stuff behind in their regular platforms for something that doesn't really
give them that much value back and many people who haven't really gone down the rabbit hole and
only think bitcoin is this uh speculative asset that hopefully can be a rich get rich quick scheme
when you start talking to them about it it can be that that it turns them off because it feels
like you're trying to sell them something you know i think there is a way out um which is
is, and this probably will take time,
which is you get a handful of people in
who can tolerate Bitcoin,
and they need to be artists, right?
They need to be filmmakers, musicians,
or whatever it is.
They're like, yeah, that's fine.
You know, I'm not a Bitcoiner,
but I don't mind it.
They could talk about it.
And they come in,
and they have a large following,
and they start bringing some of their followers
who absolutely don't care about Bitcoin.
But they're there because this person
that they support, this artist that they support is there.
And then they start having these little side conversations
that might not be about Bitcoin at all.
And so then it permeates that way, right?
So it needs to start with this sort of in-between type person
who's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll come.
It seems fun, whatever.
Let them talk about Bitcoin.
I'll just do my thing.
And then they bring their people
and then slowly these circles start forming.
I mean, that's a hope, right?
That's the hope. And I think that that you raise this. And I think, for example, with with Bitcoin for the arts, but we're helping Dion build.
There can be something very interesting because I do think that there is something about onboarding artists that can make this on one side, bring their following.
And on the other side, make art that even if it doesn't use the word Bitcoin introduces you to the ethos behind it.
know of elements of the fact that um dion when we were talking about bitcoin for the arts and in
in some of the calls that we've been together in um the fact of wanting to do grants where it
doesn't have to be about bitcoin but if we know that for for for us it's important to talk about
the power of, I don't know, decentralization or the power of other elements that we tie to the
Bitcoin ethos. Maybe artists will come and we'll just see a way for Bitcoin being just this thing
that, hey, they see a grant call. The topic doesn't have to do with Bitcoin to them, but they can
find a way to create a project where they earn this thing. They never knew they could look at it
as a grant form that could help them go through whatever times work.
And little by little, people start seeing out their art
that it's not about Bitcoin, but it is.
And the subtext is Bitcoin.
So that in the end, it just starts being part of the discourse.
Yeah.
This is a sly roundabout way, for sure.
I want to get back to Bitcoin for the Arts,
but you still have a playlist that we're not yet halfway through.
So let's move on to song number three.
So you've picked I Need a Little by The Retrograde.
So The Retrograde, I started playing Valley for Valley music
on both my podcasts on Plep Chain Radio and on Sunday Branch.
Sunday Branch obviously is dedicated entirely to Valley for Valley music.
Like Plep Chain Radio, it's a nice little breather in between at the one hour mark.
And that was the first show I started playing Valley for Valley Music three or four months ago.
And the first song I picked was by the Retrograde.
It wasn't this one.
I picked Closer to Somewhere.
But yes, I do like the Retrograde.
They're fun.
They are fun.
A couple of weeks back, I had Butt Tender from Hash Power Music.
And so Hashpower Music onboards these musicians, independent artists, into the value for value open music ecosystem.
So he was the guy, or Hashpower Music was the entity that brought the retrograde over here.
So let's listen.
This is I Need a Little by the Retrograde.
I make the music in my head that makes you want to tap your shoe.
I paint the fillings in my shed 47, 80, cobalt blue
Ooh, my love, I'm thinking of the things we used to do.
Ooh, my love, oh, my heart, I guess that's over too.
One time.
I need a little, I need to get up.
Something over nothing keeps me by your side.
I need a little, I need to get up
Try to race the summer, joke and never hide
Till you tell me that you want it
Always thinking of it, never leaving it behind
I need a little, I need to get up
Never mind
In prison now for choosing
You never wanted me
You're all in shame
And now I don't know what to do
When you tell me I'm the one to blame
Ooh, my love
I'm thinking of
The things we used to do
Ooh, my love, oh, my heart
I guess that's over too, too tight
I need a little, I need to get up
Something over nothing keeps me by the side
I need a little, I need to get up
Try to raise the sun but you can never hide
Till you die without your woman
I was thinking of it, never leaving it behind
I need a little, I need to get out, but never mind
Till you take it back to say
That we'll never find a way
No, no, I won't take all the blame
It's because I need a little
I need to get up
Something over nothing keeps me by your side
I need a little
I need to get up
Try to race a storm but you can never hide
Till you told me that you want it
Always thinking of me
Gotta believe in me behind
I need a little
I need to get out of my mind
I need a little, I need a little
That was I Need a Little by The Retrograde.
Really fun song, Buttercup.
I can...
Retrograde, they do this, right?
They kind of transport you back to a happier time.
Maybe the 80s.
This is like a theme song for a college movie from the 1980s.
I can totally see that, yes.
when I discovered this
I had a lot of fun listening to it
I've played it a couple
of times since it just
brings back to
kind of that 80s
80s vibe I guess
so our live chat has been
lively I'm going to read
some of the comments some of the more recent
comments Paul in the
jungle friend of the show
says buttercup
was my favorite Powerpuff Girl.
Is that where the name comes from?
No, actually, but I'm glad that Buttercup
was his favorite Powerpuff Girl.
It actually comes from the film The Princess Bride.
I started having this name
when I started to contribute
to the Ross Ulbricht defense campaign.
And since he had this Dread Pirate Roberts,
characters that had the was a pseudonym that he went through with the whole silk road thing
when i started to contribute i just uh uh it made it was fun for me to okay then
my name is going to be buttercup roberts and it just stick and i just stayed with it
nice and then we have intuitive guy hello intuitive guy long time supporter of the show
actually from the very first episode of Plep Chain Radio
back over three years ago, actually,
now that I think about it,
back in early March of 2023.
So Intuitive Guy says,
artists should come and explore NOSTA
for content sovereignty
and stay for money sovereignty,
learning about Bitcoin.
I think that, yes, I agree there.
We have Bitcoin for the Arts saying,
giving us three heart emojis.
Hello, Bitcoin for the Arts.
I suspect that's...
Is that Dion running the account, Buttercup?
Or is that you?
I think so.
I think it's Dion.
I did a couple of memes for it,
and I do some memes at some point
to bring people to the end pub.
But other than that, I think it must be Dion.
Hello, Dion, if you're still listening.
So let's talk about Bitcoin for the Arts
and your involvement with it.
Why don't you do this, Vardika?
We might be having some fresh listeners here.
I did have Dion on Plep Chain Radio a couple of months back
where we talked in depth about Bitcoin for the Arts.
But for those who are tuning in with fresh ears,
do you want to give your view of what Bitcoin for the Arts is
and where you think we're heading this year?
Sure. Bitcoin for the Arts is an initiative that I found out about this because Dion was posting on Nostra that he was looking for people interested in the arts and that were part of the Bitcoin ethos.
and to try to create an initiative that would fund artists.
They could do their art and as well so that people who wanted to donate money for the arts
could find a vehicle through this initiative.
So it's something that I think that it's something, I don't know how early it started.
I guess around the end of last year was the first time that I heard about it.
I don't know about you.
I know that you've been talking with Dion earlier than I was, but it's something that we're going to be launching in a way the first grants around mid-year this year.
and there's a website available where people can see whether they want to become on one side a
supporter and just be part of the just of the circle of people who want to contribute and any
money that people donate and any bitcoin that people donate is stuff that is going to go to
generate grants for artists with an idea of of being able to grant artists for many different
artistic fields and disciplines but always with a little bit of that sense of what we were talking
before of it doesn't have to be bitcoin art because we want it to be art that can travel and
impact many people but i do think that it's going to be art that is going to have a little bit of
that bitcoin ethos in it and it's going to be a great way for us to onboard artists into a new way
of earning their lives.
So earning a living.
So let's play out a hypothetical scenario here.
A hypothetical scenario that we will hopefully,
not hopefully, we will plan to make real this year.
But let's just say we raised,
so I am, by the way, for folks who are unaware,
I am part of the board of Bitcoin for the Arts.
And I was working with Dion Wilson,
and the creator of Bitcoin for the Arts.
We've been working for quite a few months now
to get this thing off the ground.
Obviously, Dion's doing the lion's share of the work
in doing this.
But let's think about this ideal scenario.
We've raised 10 Bitcoin.
I'm just, right?
Why not?
We've raised 10 Bitcoin.
Let's be optimistic.
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
We've raised 10 Bitcoin because, hey,
The community realizes the need for art and how art really is architecture of this parallel city that we're building.
There is no inspiration.
There is no parallel city in any meaningful sense if there isn't a robust and inspiring, soaring artistic framework to hold it up.
So we raised time Bitcoin because people realized that.
You come from a film background, Buttercup.
So let's take the example of a filmmaker who wants to make, it's not a Bitcoin movie, right?
But something that sort of aligns with the values.
It's a story about the human condition, about reclaiming sovereignty, something along those lines.
And it's a one and a half hour movie.
And they want to get it made.
What would that ideal scenario look like?
they find out about Bitcoin for the Arts and then to getting funded whatever amount they're trying to raise for that movie.
I mean, in that sense, we haven't launched it yet, but I guess that the idea would be that there would be some grants.
And I know that Dion has been speaking about different timings for launching the grants.
I don't know if it's going to be monthly grants that are going to be.
some of them are going to be more micro grants targeted to things that would be not as expensive
as a film in the characteristics that you were talking about. And then there are going to be
other grants that are going to be for bigger slices of grant and the money. And that being said,
even with 10 Bitcoin to the value that we have today of what a Bitcoin can earn you would still
be for a film in the conditions that you're talking about and having a crew having actors
having all of the process of doing a film is still something that would be low budget right now
very very low budget so it it has we need to be able to define very well if what we want from
bitcoin for the arts is for it to be something that are only grants for stuff that can be done
and finished with the entire grant, which suddenly, you know, you go more to music albums,
stories, novel formats, dance choreographies, stuff that are different. If we want people to
be able to do a full film and deliver the full film, I think it's much easier for the grant to
be. Sometimes films need that kickoff money, you know, the first money in the window that allows you
to do a teaser, to go to markets, to try to pay the screenwriter so that you can have a solid
script that you're going to be financing off of. So I think that depending on the road that we
really want to take with this, if we really want to be able to have big impact projects that have
this ethos um maybe we we want to be able to have grants that require having a full a full
the end of that grand time and others that are about kicking off big um big production value
projects what do you think yeah no i think probably didn't pick the best example there
buttercup film is just so fucking expensive you know it is it is and i'm making a travel show i
feel the pinch right and um with finding home that's expensive i can't even imagine what a
full budget film would be like but actually let me ask you this have you been to the warsaw film
festival i think they've had three editions of you haven't okay i haven't and i haven't been to
Bitcoin Frog where they told me that the film festival, the people who run the film festival
are usually go there Am I mistaken But I heard that the whole community is there Yeah that where I met Tomek and Pierre Pierre Corban And Tomek I not going to try and pronounce his last name
I mean, I have a Polish wife,
but his name has way too many consonants
without enough breathing room for vowels in between.
So I'm not even going to bother pronouncing it.
But great guys, Tomek and Pierre.
And then, of course, I had Aza on this show last week.
She helps out.
And several other volunteers, Kasia and others.
So, yeah, usually they're in Prague.
No, well, actually, I'm digressing here.
The reason I brought up the Bitcoin Film Fest, Buttercup,
was because the time I was there, which was not last year, but in 2024,
there were a lot of – actually, these guys are not necessarily Bitcoiners,
the ones who come and present.
Of course, you have Bitcoiners presenting, showing their movies,
like the shorts and animations and some even long features, right?
But there were others who heard about it.
They're filmmakers.
They show up.
They kind of like the idea of Bitcoin and some of the sovereignty stuff and whatever.
And there's this pitch contest.
And one of the things they do is – so I saw a couple of examples of this.
This guy says, look, I've put my own money in.
I've
you know
have my own camera
I went around
this place
and I filmed this
this XYZ person
for this documentary
I'm making
and here's the footage
and they show
you know
some footage
that they've captured
they've done the editing
themselves
and it's not
you know
it's good
but it needs that
next step of
maybe capturing
more footage
maybe some
really high quality
B-roll
and then
putting it through
really professional
editing, color grading, sound, and so on.
And I say, look, I need to raise another $5,000,
whatever the number is, right?
Something a little more reasonable than
a million dollars you would need
for a full-fledged proper film, right?
So I think there are those types of scenarios
where people have shown the proof of work,
burned their own capital
to produce something that's, you know, not quite there,
but at least you can see the proof of concept.
And then they're asking for something to go to the next stage.
I think that's a possibility where Bitcoin for the Arts can step in.
And that can be a milestone-based thing, right?
Here's the first part of your grant.
Get to the stage two that you're saying that you want to get to.
Then we'll see.
Absolutely.
I mean, I think that in that sense, that's the kind of scenario of what I mean
when I say that for that kind of
bigger projects it can be the
kickoff money you know because it's
very important when you go with already some
proof of work stuff and you can go to
pitching sessions and you can have meetings
with streaming companies and
with even big
production houses
if you have something
to show for and you have a proof of concept
then the
conversation is completely different
than when you only have like the
the the a script that you've worked on by yourself uh that you've paid for by doing your fiat work
at the same time if you've done everything else no i think that something that is that that i think
that is very valuable what bitcoin for the arts is bringing is giving not the young always says
that he wants artists to be able to work on that um different uh um time frame no of uh going back
to the concept of having low time preference
or high time preference
and how everything now is for so fast
and fast consumption
and artists aren't able to make a living in many cases
just because of how that time preference is.
So if suddenly having some donation,
earning some grant,
even if, like you say,
milestones for bigger, longer,
more expensive projects then then maybe it can be a solution to just fragment it or just make
sure that at least that that they always say that when you're doing a film the hardest money to be
able to fund is the first one that gets in the door and the gap funding in the end you know it's
the hardest ones the first one so that you can prove that somebody already believes in you and
the last one so that you can close that gap for those final elements that are just that thing that
are going to take it to the next level you know the last one because you've run out of money uh
trying to finish it exactly right yeah maybe shouldn't have done that nice shot in the french
riviera should have picked a different spot um yeah but the production value of the french
trivia you know i'm sure that there are some things that in the end really really really make
the difference i think but even for the for example for the project that you were talking
at the beginning of the show and you were saying that you had written another story under a pseudonym
and hopefully for it to be a potential you know kind of netflix kind of project and kind of film
ideally it's something where um i really believe in this concept you know of uh how alex gladstein
usually is always the analogy of the Trojan horse affecting stories that doesn't look like Bitcoin,
but there's a Trojan horse there and it's putting you the elements there.
And Bitcoin for the Arts can fund some of these tiny Trojan horses to be on one side funding artists
so that they can see that they can make a living out of Bitcoin.
And on the other side, we just keep putting art pills that touch people emotionally,
that bring them to some of the ideas that has all of us worked up,
then it's win-win, right?
And hopefully these kind of projects can be huge Netflix projects.
I remember I heard an interview on a Nat Brunel show of an actor
that I can't for the life of me remember his name,
but he was a Hollywood actor who had been in the Silicon Valley show, I think.
And he was talking how he wanted to do a heist movie about Bitcoin,
like a very big budget film of a big heist that had to do with Bitcoin.
And I just thought it was like,
it has all the elements of being able to be this,
this,
this great,
you know,
oceans 11 kind of film,
but just having that Bitcoin layer and having those elements that even you
weave into your stories,
no of the seed phrases and finding the words.
And,
and I don't know.
By the way,
speaking of heist,
films on Bitcoin and Spanish language.
Have you seen Hotel Bitcoin?
I haven't. I haven't. Should I?
Have you heard of it?
No.
It's an interesting movie.
I don't think it was made by Bitcoiners, or maybe it was,
but it's a Spanish language movie.
And the only reason I know it is I'm on the jury at the Bitcoin Film Fest.
So I think two years back, it was one of the movies I had to watch.
it was um it was part of the thing uh i guess part of the lineup there um and it's it's an
interesting movie uh it's i wouldn't go so far as to call it a heist movie but it's an action
movie that has a lot to do with with bitcoin yeah where where can one watch it well i'll look i'll
look it up yeah yeah i think you might have to buy it i don't know i i don't but hotel bitcoin
in Spanish. It's a Spanish language movie,
so
you should be able to find it.
Okay. Alright. So,
let's move on to your next song,
Buttercup. This is
a band called Epoch Native
and the
song is called Lost in Whispers.
Is this part of your Wavelake
browsing that led you
here or is there more?
It was part of my
Wavelake browsing
but this was
part of when I started to browse
the top 40 I saw that
there were like five songs
in this group and I was like who are
they so I started to browse them
because I saw that a lot of their music
had a lot of
zaps and they were in the top 40
and it was like I'm just gonna go down this
road and see where it leads me so
I noticed that they had some
I think it has a very interesting
mystical sound
This is Lost in Whispers by Epoch Native
Soaring through the endless skies
My spirit's free and forever fly
An ancient song that's lived so long
Where everything's good and nothing's wrong
Stars align, they're on my side
And I can see no need to hide
Lost in whispers on the tide
All is one with no divide
Stars align, they're on my side and I can see no need to hide
Lost in whispers on the tide, all is one with no divine
To roam no more, I am back home
To grow anew in the gardens lone
To live in harmony within the high
It is just the way I live and thrive
Strolling down near the bay
Such a wonderful and magical day
The feeling inside wells up to flow
A piece falls over me
I'm all aglow, tired to fade
Forever flow
As above it is so below
Stars align, they're on my side
And I can see no need to hide
Lost in whispers on the tide
All is one with no device
Stars align there on my side
And I can see no need to hide
Lost in whispers on the tide
All is one with no device
The astral plane is clear out here
A new dimension void of fear
The ancient rite that gives new sight
That takes away the doubt and fright
As above, so below
Eternal tides in ceaseless flow
Silent vows and the rites acclaim
It's time to shine, become the flame, become the spark
Stars align, they're on my side And I can see no need to hide
Lost in whispers on the tide All is one with no divide
Stars align they on my side And I can see no need to hide Lost in whispers on the tide All is one and in here I hide
that was lost in whispers by epoch nation a nice soothing almost hypnotic rhythm there
i like that yeah i love the floaty vibe and like the combination of their voices and their vocals
It's just very, very hypnotizing, yeah, how you said.
I can, again, talking about setting this as a soundtrack to something,
I can imagine a sort of a floaty ballet dance,
sort of a dreamlike ballet dance, right,
a ballerina and dancing in nature,
almost floating in the air gracefully.
something like that
it's a music that is very evocative
of taking you to a very
floaty place
it's really cool
let's play the next one
as well
because we are
approaching the 90 minute
mark and we can
I mean I'm happy to
make this a
three hour show but
But I try to keep it to between the 90 minute and two hour mark.
This one is actually a favorite of the of this show, at least the artist.
It's it's by Longhi.
Have you heard much Longhi or was Longhi a new discovery for you?
I have to say that I knew of Longhi because I've heard him in many podcast interviews and I've heard about what he's been doing to onboard people into the Valley for Valley.
ecosystem and I took the opportunity of doing my dive of really going into what he was doing
and I really loved a lot of the tracks I had like many options out of what I heard but
I'm still here it's just the one that really spoke to me the most but I I knew of him and
I just made it a conscious effort of going not even an effort like a conscious choice of
going to learn more about Longhi since I knew who he was, but I just hadn't really had the
opportunity to really dive into what he was doing.
And for those who want to learn more about Longhi, you can listen to Sunday Brunch episode 7,
where guest host Aaron, Aaron of Essex, had basically a two-hour long interview with Longhi,
and they were playing his music, talking about his background,
how he found value for value, his journey into music and so on.
Fascinating stuff.
Sunday Brunch, Episode 7.
But for now, this is I'm Still Here by Longhi.
I'm waking up early morning
But you ain't by my side
Why's this love so torn?
Going late all night
I'm still here
Something's wrong
I feel like reaching the road
I think of us in the sun
Why'd you have to cut me off?
I hope this gets to you
Somehow I'm still here
Something's wrong
Oh, I know, I know I hurt you so
You know I won't let go
I know, I know I want you so
You know I won't let go
I will wait for you
That was I'm Still Here by Longhi.
What a great choice. Beautiful, longy song, as longy songs tend to be.
Yeah, I love how he carries the longness of how he carries the words and how his voice breaks.
I think that it's a very, very beautiful and very powerful way to sing.
Yeah, for sure.
So we were talking about Bitcoin for the arts, and I think we focused quite a bit on film.
That's primarily because I'm a film buff.
Your background is your fiat background and your, I guess, your passion is film.
But we should, I mean, Bitcoin for the arts is open to all forms of art, all media, you know, painters.
it could be murals, right?
Let's say someone has a crazy idea of painting
and they get the,
unfortunately you have to get the permits
for these types of things.
But let's say you get a permit from your local authority
or whatever it is to paint a giant mural
on a wall in the center of town.
And you say, you know what?
I've got the permit.
I want to subliminally incorporate a Bitcoin message into this mural I'm going to paint.
But I do need the materials, you know, the paint costs money and whatever the number is, right?
In theory, they could come to Bitcoin for the Arts and put in an application.
Then that application would be evaluated.
It obviously depends on the prior proof of work of the artist
when it comes to that sort of thing.
Indeed, but they could absolutely try to get this kind of art.
Murals in the end, it's great to have that kind of artist
also want to apply for the arts
because in the end it's the art that people run into
when they are in the street.
Yeah.
I think a mural is a really cool way of orange pilling.
Honestly, it's just, you have this subliminal message right there.
I don't know if I ever told you this.
I had this idea for, you'll recognize where this is going.
I had this idea for commissioning 24 murals.
By the way, I don't have the money to commission anything.
I'm just saying, right?
Someone, I would put the idea out and then someone would raise the money to commission it.
24 murals in different parts of the world, each containing a little something that would then, whoever cracked it, right, would be able to get the money.
So a bounty hidden around the world, geographically distributed in murals.
so on the one hand you're orange pilling by having this sort of bitcoin giant bitcoin art
in 24 different locations in the world and on the other hand you're creating a fun
global treasure hunt for people you actually have to be there um to i i mean the mural would have to
be set up in such a way that just taking a photo of it and then sharing it digitally would not be
enough to to to crack it but i think that would be a very fun even not only just putting the idea
out there to see if any generous donor wants to do this but also this could be something even i
think that we can find very playful ways with bitcoin for the arts to just the way that we
launch grants like imagine if one of the grants was like this is a grant for 24 murals and we're
going to give grant money to 24 mural artists around the world. And it's all going to be part
of a concept that the artists are going to be working together, decentralized, but it's all
going to have with this kind of Easter egg that when we launch it, everyone's going to benefit from
everyone else's work. And I don't know, I think that the good thing with Bitcoin for the Arts is
that it allows us to envision creating grants.
Like I've always admired, Avi, how you marketed and put that Easter egg of a marketing experience
into your first launch with 24 and having the seed phrase and the scavenger hunt in
the book.
And I think that it's a great way to get more people talking as well about these kinds of
initiatives.
So why not?
I mean, yes, maybe somebody is listening to this and wants to fund this grant.
Please get in touch with Bitcoin for the Arts, if that's you.
But if not, I'm sure that we can find a way to make it happen at some point.
Yeah.
Look, it's a bear market.
People are getting depressed.
People are fighting.
Why not do something fun?
Precisely.
What's more fun than a global treasure hunt?
Yes.
And you're going to have to collaborate with other people who are in those places.
Maybe you're going to have to split whatever is the treasure hunt in there.
Who knows how this goes?
Because we don't want only people who can afford to travel to the 24 places to be the only ones who can claim the price.
but I would totally
date for a kind of grant that goes in this direction
and that ends with
24 murals that are like
tiny orange pills into
this
beautiful value for value ecosystem
yeah
alright whales
all the whales who are listening
either on the live stream
or to the podcast
you can reach out to
Dionne Wilson at BankOnForTheHours
You can reach out to Buttercup or me as well, since we're all part of Bitcoin for the Arts.
And let's get this thing going.
It'll be a fun game.
So, Buttercup, one other thing I do on the show, if you've heard it before, is obviously the guests play their songs.
And then the last song is the one I play.
I try and pick one that's a little different from what the guest has picked.
I think this one does kind of do it.
It's not a full-fledged curveball,
but it is a little different from the ones you picked.
I came across this band just last week, actually.
I believe they're out of South Dakota,
and they're a psychedelic rock band,
and that immediately got my attention.
So the band is called Steared.
I really love their music.
They have that nice melancholy vibe.
It's guitar forward in general and interesting chord progressions.
So I definitely see where the psychedelic rock label is coming from.
By the way, before I do that, I think it's Dion again,
Bitcoin for the Arts said, we love it.
I'm assuming he's talking about it.
Dion, you're talking about the 24-year-old concept.
Our 24-year-old scavenger hunt.
so
alright so let's listen to my song
this is
let's have a listen and discover
pulling me over
by stared
In the mirror pull over now
guitar solo
on the dash
what the hell
you do
questions drill like
bullets
eyes scan for
the score
engine
ticks down cold
trapped in this
chore
officers
pulling me
Over lights burn through the dark
Officer, what's the charge?
Pinnin' me to the mark
No runnin' from the stair
Truth or lie, pick your part
Flashlight rips the cap
Paper shaking grip
Smell the fear ignite
Lips tight on the trip
Radio crackles low
Back up on the line
One room switched away from crossing that line
Officer, pulling me over
Lights burned through the dark
Officer, what's the charge?
Pending me to the mark
No running from the stair
Truth or lie, pick your part
Fuck your ticket book
Fuck your loaded pen
I'm the judge of my head
This ends when I say win
Push back or break down
Choose your poison then
Lights in the mirror
Pull over
Over
We'll be right back.
That was pulling me over by Steard.
What do you think, Buttercup?
I loved it. It's great. It's, you know, the kind of music that really wakes you up in the morning. And I don't know exactly why, but it took me to a mental state. Sometimes I played, you know, a video game that's called Need for Speed, and you just need to speed in the car and get away from the police. I could see myself running away from the police in the car as I was listening to this. It's like, it's a lot of fun. It's very, very, very energetic. Very fun.
yeah if you're doing movie scene backgrounds again i would have this as a car chase scene
like you said but not in a not in a regular movie though you know in one of those slightly
sort of sci-fi surrealist movie where where whoever's being chased if it's a good guy or
bad guy whoever it is disappears into some kind of time warp and everyone's like what what's
happening where did he go yeah a very very cool very cool song yeah i i just found out about them
a week ago uh and they have about five or six songs i think up on um you can find them on fountain
or wave lake um you know similar vibe sort of that yeah that psychedelic rock you could call it
so actually before we wrap up
as a one film person one film buff to an actual film person
such as yourself who if I if I asked you to name five of
your favorite directors in no particular order who would they be
oh favorite directors in no particular order that's a that's a complicated
question um the thing is that there are like the directors that have been there like for my
my whole life and that I've loved you know like Robert Zemeckis uh Back to the Future
that kind of film has been someone who I've always enjoyed but then there are some films that you
love and then there are others that you just uh that you don't really understand why
why I guess they had to pay rent
I
always loved
I think that I've loved everything
that James Cameron has done
I
on one side everything that
had to do with obviously the
80s and 90s Terminator
the Abyss but even
even just watching the
technical prowess of
what he's been doing with Avatar
and with the Avatar saga
I just think he's a very interesting mind that I would love to talk with for a very long time, for many conversations.
Then I'm not sure about other directors that I could say.
I recently, for example, when I think about films that have brought me some spark of, oh, wow, I haven't seen this before.
It's surprising.
You know, I think of everything everywhere all at once.
And suddenly you find the kind of filmmaking that comes from a lot of it, you know, that music, video kind of vibe.
And even if it's not just director in general, I love animation.
So I don't know if you saw, for example, there's many different kinds of animation, you know.
tied these Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse world.
But then last year, I remember I saw a movie called Flow,
which is a movie just, you know, with animals and no dialogue
and just a very powerful, poetic kind of way to talk about,
you know the the way the world is going with just
animals experiencing kind of like the end of the world no so i don't know there's i just i feel that
i had like my favorite directors when i was you know growing up and studying film school and
and all that and lately it's more less about the the following a specific director and more about
letting myself be surprised by some of them i don't know how about you what are your your
directors or kinds of films like i don't know alex garland has surprised me a lot as well
what am i mean i i i like directors who pay a lot of attention to the human condition and and
and that they understand their characters
at a very, very deep level, right?
And so, it doesn't have to be, you know, normal movie.
Like David Lynch is a guy who just,
so his first one comes to mind.
I think Francois Truffaut was an incredible director
who's more, I mean, obviously there's Godard and Truffaut,
right, the two, Godard was, he's interesting,
but I think he's a nihilist.
And that was...
Yes.
And so that gets a little tricky with Godard.
But Truffaut, you know how much he cares
about humanity, right?
About people.
And even though he was part of the same new wave
as Godard, Truffaut's...
I mean, if you follow that 400 Blows series,
it's remarkable.
So there's that.
There's Federico Fellini is another one.
just
you know such a deep understanding
of himself
honestly because
Marcelo Maserani was his muse
right and he kept
casting him as himself
I'm trying to think
that was what was that
so it's usually stuff like that
I do like Tarantino
if you're talking US directors
Christopher Nolan
really interesting
mind
especially if you watched
his earlier movies
following in Memento
yeah absolutely
yeah
Memento was
insane
Memento was insane I know
yes
and you can see
a bit of that in Tenet
I mean Tenet is also
insane I don't know if you've seen it
I haven't I haven't no it's on the list yeah you should I you should no you should absolutely watch
it I mean it's it's a similar kind of insane as Memento and you can see that with Tenet he was
like okay I could have done this in Memento so I'm going to do it in Tenet okay yeah nice
no I think that in in in the sense of well of what you were saying of understanding their
character and just um you know humanity there is a a director that is called the ruben oslund
he's a director behind his latest film is the triangle of sadness and he did two previous films
that are just very very cool uh he he does good satire with interesting characters and and and
finds, I don't know, comedy
in dramatic
situations in a very interesting
way. More in a
European director, kind of.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But now there are so many films
coming out. I mean, it's just
insane to try to
keep up with everything
that comes out.
Yeah, but not out of Hollywood, though.
The independent ones are...
We know there are obviously a lot coming out of Hollywood and it's impossible.
At this point, Hollywood has become slop, right?
I mean, you were talking about n-shittification.
I think the step two of n-shittification is n-slopification, which is happening.
yeah i feel like the fact that that that so much has to end in the streaming platform i always say
that that streaming platforms have this incentive with subscribers to stay there to put new content
up every week and when you need to be put in content up every week then it's very difficult
that that content can maintain a level of quality and it's more of the fast food of film than
than really giving
giving things the time that
they really need to have in order to
really mature
and bring out the
the really
outstanding stuff that
comes from reworking
and having time to go over the
stories that you want to tell
yeah
for sure, alright
Barakab, anything
you think we've missed
today we talked about become for the arts we talked about the bridge your other project on
so folks if you're listening do follow the bridge really cool account that's uh telling stories
about freedom tech um and sovereignty and other aspects through animation through through cartoons and so on Very informative So we talked about that Anything you think we missed
No, I think we went through a lot of it.
I think that I guess that both of us are here and many of the people who are on the live stream
and listening to this have been an interest in seeing how this Nostra and value for value ecosystem grows.
Now I'm also dedicating a lot of time and contributing to a project called Pipe Talk, which has to do with video conferencing and trying to figure out a new way to do video conferencing.
And I just try to I try to see how I can contribute not being a technical person inside of this space and and trying to I just appreciate you inviting me to have this conversation, because I just think that these conversations are are very worth having, seeing how how we get there.
What are the frictions that we are encountering?
How do we make projects and products better so that they drive more people to see the value of the stuff that we are seeing the value for, right?
Yeah absolutely Well thank you for everything you do for all your contributions to NOSTA and Bitcoin culture And I appreciate you taking the time
Thank you, Avi. It was great to have this conversation.
Absolutely. And thank you to our live stream audience for keeping the chat lively, for listening and for the zaps.
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also love that my friend Jimmy song
great to hear from the mind behind
amplified tunes
thank you strange love
and indeed AZA has great plans ahead
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and I will be following that project
with great interest
I would urge all of you
do the same
and until next Sunday folks
it's happy Monday
through Saturday
farewell
Ooh, ooh, ooh