1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,460 And we are live. 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,120 My name is Jordan Bush. 3 00:00:09,260 --> 00:00:13,460 I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, and we just want to welcome you to episode 4 00:00:13,460 --> 00:00:15,940 65 of the TGFB podcast. 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,840 This is going to be a little bit different speed than what we normally do. 6 00:00:20,380 --> 00:00:24,660 Basically, I was squirreling around the Twitter webs today. 7 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:28,440 I was looking around and happened to come across this. 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:29,420 Let's see here. 9 00:00:29,420 --> 00:00:36,420 happened to come across this little, I guess it was on Canon Plus, canon.com, canonpress.com, 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:41,040 came across this little basically announcement of this book that they're just getting ready to 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:47,720 publish called Don't Invest in Your Enemies. It's actually called Biblically Responsible Investing. 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:54,720 It's by this guy right here. His name is Robert Netsley. He wrote a book called Biblically 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,900 responsible investing on Wall Street as it is in heaven. Ooh, as somebody who has written a couple 14 00:00:59,900 --> 00:01:04,640 books and enjoys marketing and coming up with names for stuff, it's a great name, very catchy. 15 00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:11,320 Mr. Netsley apparently has a lot of credentials, been talked about in a bunch of these places. 16 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:18,640 And this book is fascinating, very interesting, right up our alley. If you are a Christian and 17 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:25,720 somebody who's into Bitcoin for the reasons that a lot of us are. It's, again, much bigger than 18 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:31,000 just making money. You're looking at this from the standpoint of ethical investing and just a 19 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,980 lot of the looking at a lot of the downstream consequences of the decisions that we make every 20 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:40,220 day. And so this book is right up our alley, super interested in it. And it's an interesting 21 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:46,340 topic. I'd love to get Mr. Netsley on the podcast at some point. And I think it's possible to do 22 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:52,580 that. So here's kind of the back of the book summary here. If you ask Christian entrepreneurs 23 00:01:52,580 --> 00:01:56,800 to invest in a new abortion clinic in town, all the faithful ones would say absolutely not, 24 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,900 right? This is pretty non-negotiable. This is very controversial if you're not a Christian, 25 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,200 but if you're a Christian, this probably isn't too controversial to you. 26 00:02:05,780 --> 00:02:09,880 At the same time, something similar is happening. Christians invest in many investment funds. 27 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:14,400 For example, the Vanguard S&P 500 is one of the most popular funds, and it grows 28 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,660 with the sale of abortion services. 29 00:02:16,820 --> 00:02:18,260 This is just one of the realities. 30 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,520 A lot of these S&P 500, a lot of these summary products, 31 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,620 they include things that Christians would not be excited about. 32 00:02:26,460 --> 00:02:29,320 This book inspires Christians everywhere to stop investing in God's enemies 33 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,120 and shift their wealth towards investments that build God's kingdom on Wall Street as it is in heaven. 34 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,600 BlackRock, this stat is incredible. 35 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:40,760 I have never seen this before, but I was, if this is true, 36 00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:44,300 this is, I mean, it doesn't surprise me on one hand, but it still is insane. 37 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:51,960 BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager and secular investment firm, boasts of a $3 to $4 trillion fund. 38 00:02:52,780 --> 00:03:00,000 According to Pew Research, there's $22.4 trillion walking around in Christian church members' pockets in America. 39 00:03:00,540 --> 00:03:04,340 Christians could collectively buy Amazon, Google, and Apple four times over. 40 00:03:04,340 --> 00:03:10,440 for those of you who are wondering at home. Yes, you could buy the entire Bitcoin network, 41 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,860 all of the Bitcoin that are available for a pretty good check of change. I think that would be 42 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:20,860 enough. We could still swing that with $22.4 trillion. The time is now for Christians to 43 00:03:20,860 --> 00:03:26,700 invest the hell out of their money. That's very clever. Again, so this book, super fascinating. 44 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:35,860 If you're, you know, I would recommend, you know, go give a couple of shekels here, $22, 18,772 sats for those who are interested. 45 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,900 You can go pick this book up either on the Canopress website or on Amazon. 46 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,560 I'm going to be doing that. 47 00:03:41,980 --> 00:03:49,260 Here's a little, if you're looking for just a summary of what this looks like beyond what he just said, I want to share this here. 48 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,460 We found this on Twitter as well via their Twitter account. 49 00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:53,240 So let's see here. 50 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,620 How much money is okay for a Christian? 51 00:03:55,620 --> 00:03:57,820 to make from the sale of pornography. 52 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:01,680 How much money is okay for a Christian 53 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,200 to make from the sale of an abortion drug? 54 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,440 Look, Laura, all the money I made for you 55 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:06,720 in abortion drugs and pornography. 56 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,320 Aren't you so happy? 57 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,780 I could not envision that conversation going well. 58 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:14,580 Carver 16.8 says better is a little with righteousness 59 00:04:14,580 --> 00:04:15,940 than great revenues with injustice. 60 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:18,340 Apparently, there is a category, 61 00:04:18,340 --> 00:04:20,640 biblically speaking, for unjust gain. 62 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,380 So there's voting with their feet, 63 00:04:22,380 --> 00:04:23,460 They're voting with their feet. 64 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:26,500 But you're talking about voting with your money. 65 00:04:27,220 --> 00:04:28,340 Let's pause this right there. 66 00:04:28,620 --> 00:04:31,700 There's been a lot of things that, you know, a lot of good stuff here. 67 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:39,500 I think this is something where a lot of us recognize that there's ethical concerns in what we do with our money, right? 68 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:45,000 There's ethical concerns if I go and use money to purchase time with a prostitute. 69 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:49,960 Or if I were to go buy a nuclear bomb with the intent to drop it on innocent people. 70 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,940 We all recognize that there's ethical concerns about what we do with our money. 71 00:04:54,340 --> 00:05:00,560 There's far less thought put into something like the ethics of investing. 72 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:04,260 And again, this reality that he talked about where if you're investing in the S&P 500, 73 00:05:04,420 --> 00:05:09,800 you're effectively giving money to companies and corporations that for a host of reasons, 74 00:05:10,300 --> 00:05:15,980 you could find that maybe Christians wouldn't want to be involved in and wouldn't want to be giving money to. 75 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:16,780 Now, why is that? 76 00:05:16,780 --> 00:05:31,080 Because when you're investing money in something, whether you're purchasing a product or you are actually investing, looking to get a return, effectively what you're doing is you're breathing life into this company. 77 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,960 You're breathing life into this. 78 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:34,880 It could be a person. 79 00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:36,300 It could be whatever it is. 80 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,700 And basically, you're extending its lifespan effectively. 81 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:46,080 Now, at the same time, I want to be the first to acknowledge nobody is perfectly consistent in this. 82 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:51,500 all of us at some point or another have given money or invested in a company or invested in 83 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:56,700 a person who, you know, we did it with good intentions or maybe we didn't. And it just was 84 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:01,420 a, it was a poor stewardship. It was poor stewardship on our part. You know, we, we look 85 00:06:01,420 --> 00:06:05,520 back on decisions that we've made in terms of investment, in terms of supporting people or 86 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,140 companies. And we just think, ah, man, I wish that I hadn't done that. That was, that was wrong. 87 00:06:11,140 --> 00:06:16,260 they used this money and did things that I don't think I would, well, that I know I don't approve 88 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:20,380 of. And I definitely, I don't believe God would approve of either. And so this is where within 89 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:24,380 the Christian faith, it's really important to have grace. And it's really important, you know, 90 00:06:24,420 --> 00:06:29,400 God recognizes that we're going to come to points like this. We're going to have needs for forgiveness 91 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,240 and needs to, you know, points of recognition where we just recognize, man, this was wrong. 92 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,540 And so this is the beauty of this is that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins, 93 00:06:39,540 --> 00:06:45,560 including sins of misinvestment, where we breathe life into things that aren't worthy of being 94 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:51,140 breathed into, that aren't worthy of having that life. And so this is just something that 95 00:06:51,140 --> 00:06:54,800 we ought to think more about. Another issue that we're not going to talk about right now, 96 00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:59,160 but that Christians have even thought about, I would argue, less than even what Mr. Netsley here 97 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:05,140 is talking about, is the fact that there's ethical constraints around the creation of money itself. 98 00:07:05,140 --> 00:07:12,580 what you the production cost and the production process for creating money matters enormously 99 00:07:12,580 --> 00:07:17,420 because of the downstream effects of it and because of what it says about the way that the 100 00:07:17,420 --> 00:07:22,880 world actually works and the you know that that can either agree with god in the way that he's 101 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:28,340 designed the world to work or it can basically act in opposition to him so again we'll keep 102 00:07:28,340 --> 00:07:31,860 listening here and we'll see if there's anything else i can't remember if there's anything else 103 00:07:31,860 --> 00:07:36,080 He wants his people investing his money according to his value for his glory. 104 00:07:36,660 --> 00:07:38,060 And we were missing the boat. 105 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,800 That's something that Christians have largely ignored. 106 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,780 I would agree. 107 00:07:44,140 --> 00:07:47,980 I mean, Christians have ignored it to a certain degree. 108 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:53,300 At the same time, Christians have been, I've seen Christians, I remember, I'm old enough to remember, 109 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Christian boycotts of things like Target for different policies that they've made, 110 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,020 or Christian boycotts of different things. 111 00:07:59,020 --> 00:08:14,160 And those do make an enormous economic impact. I believe, I can't remember what specifically this certain, this boycott a couple of years ago of Target was, but I believe if I remember correctly, it cost them something in the range of $8 billion. I remember reading an article about it. 112 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:36,140 So again, both where you give your money and where you withhold your money, these can either lend life and give life or withdraw life and take it away from entities or people who aren't acting in our best interest and are acting against our interest, the interest of children, the interest of other people around the world. 113 00:08:36,620 --> 00:08:39,740 This is something that we have the ability to do. 114 00:08:39,820 --> 00:08:48,060 We ought to look at the spending of our money as this really holy and righteous thing where 115 00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:50,560 we can act like God and give life. 116 00:08:50,660 --> 00:08:56,260 This is really an incredible thing and something that ought to be sobering to us and that also 117 00:08:56,260 --> 00:08:57,300 ought to give us joy. 118 00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:58,260 It shouldn't just be misery. 119 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:04,180 As we think about this, it should give you joy to think about getting to imitate God by 120 00:09:04,180 --> 00:09:10,700 stewarding the resources that he's given you in order to give life to things that are that warranted. 121 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,600 Let's keep watching here. 122 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:16,700 Christians have been just sort of aiming around the steps with, you know, picket signs. 123 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,540 Well, the real power is in the board ring. 124 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,320 Real power is the shareholder. 125 00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:25,080 What is it that biblical investors are doing and having these effects on companies? 126 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:30,160 Sounds like you've picked up the task of lobbying compromised companies. 127 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,660 And then Chevron stopped giving money to Planned Parenthood. 128 00:09:32,660 --> 00:09:36,940 And then Exxon stopped getting money to another abortion nonprofit that operates globally. 129 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:38,560 We'll stop here. 130 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:42,740 So there's a guy, I wouldn't say he's a friend by an acquaintance. 131 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:43,880 His name is Jerry Boyer. 132 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:45,560 He's written a number of books. 133 00:09:45,620 --> 00:09:47,120 He's a believer, an investor. 134 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,880 He wrote a book called The Makers vs. the Takers or The Makers and the Takers. 135 00:09:52,420 --> 00:10:01,800 Very thoughtful guy, loves the Lord, really wants to faithfully steward the position that he has as a shareholder in a lot of these companies. 136 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,880 If you're a shareholder, you have the ability to make your desires known and to express 137 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,460 what you think the company ought to do. 138 00:10:10,860 --> 00:10:16,000 And so Jerry is one of the most vocal people doing this from a Christian perspective. 139 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:20,660 And so again, this is, as a Christian, you're called to be a good steward and you should 140 00:10:20,660 --> 00:10:25,460 want to faithfully steward everything within your domain, everything the Lord has put in 141 00:10:25,460 --> 00:10:30,020 your hands or all the relationships the Lord has put within your reach. 142 00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:34,900 you ought to want to be stewarding them faithfully. And so the relationship that you have with your 143 00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:41,580 stocks and as a shareholder is just one more way of doing this. It's one very impactful way. 144 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:47,180 And by neglecting this responsibility or neglecting this opportunity that we have, 145 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,700 we're losing an opportunity. We're throwing it away and wasting it. And so good on Mr. Netsley 146 00:10:52,700 --> 00:11:00,180 here, and Jerry and others, for trying to help us see this opportunity that we've been neglecting. 147 00:11:01,020 --> 00:11:01,920 On down the list. 148 00:11:02,060 --> 00:11:03,640 So it's been really wonderful. 149 00:11:03,860 --> 00:11:07,640 The little amount we do have turned, but really the large impact when we just step out and 150 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,200 they'd speak with the proper power. 151 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:10,760 I'm going to stand for the Lord one day. 152 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,120 And Jesus turns the page and says, okay, now let's move on to your best portfolio and 153 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:15,380 see how we've got done here. 154 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:17,460 Yeah. 155 00:11:17,780 --> 00:11:21,200 And again, that's so brilliant to think about is that God cares what we do with our money. 156 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,300 It's not just some tangential thing. 157 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:24,820 It demonstrates what we love. 158 00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:26,340 It demonstrates what's important to us. 159 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,320 And so if you're interested in this, I'm going to watch this. 160 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,720 I haven't seen it yet, but you can go either just stream this episode or you can pay to 161 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:44,640 get access to the other interviews that Pastor Wilson has done with a number of other people 162 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,420 on similarly themed topics. 163 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:57,527 Beyond that okay so let keep going here As far as Mr Netsley Mr Netsley he basically helped found Inspire Investing He the president and CEO 164 00:11:58,487 --> 00:12:04,007 He kind of, you know, if you go to their website here, inspireinvesting.com, you can see kind 165 00:12:04,007 --> 00:12:05,487 of his background, what this looks like. 166 00:12:05,527 --> 00:12:07,667 He's written, I think, at least a couple books. 167 00:12:09,487 --> 00:12:11,647 Yeah, this seems like an older one. 168 00:12:12,067 --> 00:12:14,227 Biblically Responsible Investing for God's Glory and Your Joy. 169 00:12:14,927 --> 00:12:18,247 Written a bunch of things, has a history in investing, lives out in life. 170 00:12:18,267 --> 00:12:23,047 to hoe with his family, passionate about classical Christian education. I mean, just interesting guy. 171 00:12:23,127 --> 00:12:29,227 Seems like a really good brother. Glad he's on Team Jesus. You know, really doing a lot of good 172 00:12:29,227 --> 00:12:35,647 work. The other thing beyond this book that he does is that they have faith-based ETFs. So these 173 00:12:35,647 --> 00:12:44,227 ETFs are exchange-traded funds. So these basically are, you know, big buckets full of just different 174 00:12:44,227 --> 00:12:49,347 companies that, uh, you know, have certain things in common. And so, you know, you're allowed to, 175 00:12:49,347 --> 00:12:53,607 you know, by putting money into an ETF, you can get, uh, you know, you can invest in all these 176 00:12:53,607 --> 00:12:58,787 companies and get a return on them. And so, yeah, they're doing, seems to be doing a good job. So 177 00:12:58,787 --> 00:13:04,507 glad, glad he exists. Uh, he, you can check out more about the inspire story, how they started. 178 00:13:04,587 --> 00:13:11,367 He's got this cool little seven, uh, you know, seven part quick little, uh, you know, seven part 179 00:13:11,367 --> 00:13:15,627 little series. I guess it is just short like that. And that's pretty much all of it. But just kind of 180 00:13:15,627 --> 00:13:19,847 tells a story of how he left his job in the corporate world and making all this money, really 181 00:13:19,847 --> 00:13:26,567 good job. And then started this faith-based investing thing. Super interesting. You'll look 182 00:13:26,567 --> 00:13:31,207 over there. They've got a bunch of other stuff. But you may be asking yourself, why in the world, 183 00:13:32,307 --> 00:13:37,227 why, this is the Thank God for Bitcoin podcast. Why, oh here, I just realized I'm not sharing this. 184 00:13:37,227 --> 00:13:41,527 And here's his little seven-part series of how he started doing this. 185 00:13:42,067 --> 00:13:43,047 Go check this out. 186 00:13:43,247 --> 00:13:44,767 But you may be thinking to yourself, as I mentioned, 187 00:13:45,187 --> 00:13:49,187 why in the world on the Thank God for Bitcoin podcast are you talking about this guy? 188 00:13:49,267 --> 00:13:50,187 Now, granted, he's a Christian. 189 00:13:50,427 --> 00:13:52,987 Granted, we don't just talk about Bitcoin-specific things. 190 00:13:53,487 --> 00:13:59,687 But I did wonder to myself, as I saw Mr. Netsley and as I thought about his book 191 00:13:59,687 --> 00:14:01,507 and thought it was interesting, I did wonder. 192 00:14:01,507 --> 00:14:06,607 I wonder if Mr. Netsley has said anything about Bitcoin. 193 00:14:06,607 --> 00:14:13,047 because there are many Christian people, many Christian investors who are very wise and very 194 00:14:13,047 --> 00:14:19,907 good stewards and thoughtful and think deeply about the intersection of faith and investing 195 00:14:19,907 --> 00:14:26,247 and what it looks like to do these things faithfully, who they bring all of this experience 196 00:14:26,247 --> 00:14:30,607 and knowledge that they have. And then when they start talking about Bitcoin, which in many cases, 197 00:14:30,607 --> 00:14:35,447 they actually haven't studied, it becomes very rapidly apparent that they haven't studied. 198 00:14:35,447 --> 00:14:40,187 They are speaking and trying to speak about something they don't understand. 199 00:14:40,787 --> 00:14:54,247 And they very frequently make fools out of themselves and very quickly reveal themselves to be, you know, not having taken the time that's required in order to understand what they're actually talking about. 200 00:14:54,347 --> 00:14:59,527 So initially, when I first searched for this, I thought, oh, no, here's another one. 201 00:15:00,047 --> 00:15:03,027 Mr. Netsley is in the same situation that a lot of other guys are in. 202 00:15:03,027 --> 00:15:11,007 This article is from January 13th, 2018. Should Christians invest in Bitcoin? And so he proceeds 203 00:15:11,007 --> 00:15:19,047 to go through. And again, 2018 is when Bitcoin had, or 2017, Bitcoin had climbed from $1,000 204 00:15:19,047 --> 00:15:25,227 at the beginning of the year to $20,000 by the end of the year before dropping down to, 205 00:15:25,227 --> 00:15:32,247 I believe somewhere in the range of $3,000 to $4,000 sometime in 2018, early 2019. 206 00:15:33,027 --> 00:15:44,247 And so as this is happening, Mr. Netsly, again, trying to faithfully shepherd people and help people think through Bitcoin from an investing standpoint, pens this article, digitally pens it. 207 00:15:44,707 --> 00:15:47,927 And as he opens the article here, let's just read this. 208 00:15:48,027 --> 00:15:48,887 It was very disappointing. 209 00:15:49,287 --> 00:15:51,907 And I thought horrible things were to come. 210 00:15:52,527 --> 00:15:54,807 But again, guys, it actually wasn't as bad as I thought. 211 00:15:55,027 --> 00:15:55,567 So here we go. 212 00:15:55,687 --> 00:15:56,767 Making heads or tails of Bitcoin. 213 00:15:56,767 --> 00:16:09,207 I just received an email proclaiming that if I started investing in Bitcoin today, that I could make as much as 55 times your money, to which I assume they expected me to respond to something along the lines of 55 times my money, eh? 214 00:16:09,487 --> 00:16:11,167 Well, in that case, here's my life savings. 215 00:16:11,607 --> 00:16:12,647 Shall I wire it to you? 216 00:16:12,787 --> 00:16:14,787 Or do you prefer a suitcase full of cash? 217 00:16:15,587 --> 00:16:15,787 Okay. 218 00:16:15,847 --> 00:16:22,567 And so then he's just basically talking, you know, Bitcoin, there was a mania going on as Bitcoin's value increased 20x over the course of a year. 219 00:16:22,567 --> 00:16:26,447 and again, he just sees that he's looking at this 220 00:16:26,447 --> 00:16:28,487 and immediately presenting things, 221 00:16:28,707 --> 00:16:30,547 presenting Bitcoin from the standpoint of 222 00:16:30,547 --> 00:16:34,927 Bitcoin exists to make you money quickly. 223 00:16:35,967 --> 00:16:38,347 Bitcoin, he's presenting and talking about 224 00:16:38,347 --> 00:16:41,727 as if the only point of Bitcoin is to make money quickly. 225 00:16:42,207 --> 00:16:44,287 Obviously, Bitcoin has done this. 226 00:16:44,647 --> 00:16:47,107 Obviously, there are people who get involved in Bitcoin 227 00:16:47,107 --> 00:16:48,687 in order to try to make money quickly. 228 00:16:48,687 --> 00:16:57,247 But what Mr. Netsly is not addressing is why was Bitcoin created? 229 00:16:58,147 --> 00:17:09,067 He's merely talking about the phenomenological experience and, if you will, like the above ground fruit expression or the way that some people are thinking about Bitcoin. 230 00:17:09,187 --> 00:17:11,167 Some people are talking about Bitcoin. 231 00:17:11,167 --> 00:17:20,667 This does not tell us anything about what Bitcoin is, about why Bitcoin was created, and about the goodness or badness of Bitcoin itself. 232 00:17:21,547 --> 00:17:23,527 And so he begins to talk about how it works. 233 00:17:23,567 --> 00:17:26,007 It's a cryptocurrency, virtual, decentralized. 234 00:17:26,267 --> 00:17:26,967 These are true things. 235 00:17:27,387 --> 00:17:28,927 He also talks about virtual wallets. 236 00:17:28,967 --> 00:17:31,747 He's just given a good brief intro to how it works. 237 00:17:32,047 --> 00:17:33,687 Bitcoin mining, this is great. 238 00:17:33,847 --> 00:17:36,067 Then he starts talking about Bitcoin as big business. 239 00:17:37,007 --> 00:17:38,507 He's talking about at this point, 240 00:17:38,607 --> 00:17:41,847 the value of all Bitcoins in circulation 241 00:17:41,847 --> 00:17:43,187 was about $223 billion. 242 00:17:43,667 --> 00:17:45,647 That number is now about $2.5 trillion. 243 00:17:47,267 --> 00:17:48,927 It's gone up a lot in value. 244 00:17:49,487 --> 00:17:50,247 And so he's basically saying, 245 00:17:50,367 --> 00:17:53,507 yeah, wow, this is loud, noisy, hyper-volatile. 246 00:17:54,967 --> 00:17:57,747 It's no wonder that there's so much interest in this 247 00:17:57,747 --> 00:17:58,587 and so much noise. 248 00:17:58,967 --> 00:18:00,247 And then he comes to the point, 249 00:18:00,247 --> 00:18:01,627 should Christians invest in Bitcoin? 250 00:18:02,387 --> 00:18:05,907 And he basically says, he goes to Solomon. 251 00:18:06,067 --> 00:18:10,267 He basically says Solomon gives us wisdom to how to think about Bitcoin. 252 00:18:10,587 --> 00:18:17,347 Given that Bitcoin only exists to help make money quickly, we should heed the words of Solomon. 253 00:18:17,587 --> 00:18:22,247 Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. 254 00:18:22,767 --> 00:18:23,667 Okay, Proverbs 13, 11. 255 00:18:23,767 --> 00:18:24,627 This is a true verse. 256 00:18:25,027 --> 00:18:28,327 This is a true thing that we ought to take into account. 257 00:18:28,827 --> 00:18:31,287 The problem is this applies to the stock market. 258 00:18:31,507 --> 00:18:33,627 This applies to real estate. 259 00:18:33,627 --> 00:18:35,967 This applies to anything you can imagine. 260 00:18:36,067 --> 00:18:38,747 in addition to also being true of Bitcoin. 261 00:18:39,327 --> 00:18:41,027 This is also true of other cryptocurrencies 262 00:18:41,027 --> 00:18:44,247 and other things like it, NFTs, all these other projects. 263 00:18:44,867 --> 00:18:48,687 Desiring to gain wealth quickly is dangerous. 264 00:18:48,887 --> 00:18:49,847 It puts you in danger. 265 00:18:49,987 --> 00:18:51,667 It puts people related to you in danger 266 00:18:51,667 --> 00:18:53,407 and you ought to avoid this. 267 00:18:53,407 --> 00:18:55,387 He goes on to say that the apostle Paul 268 00:18:55,387 --> 00:18:56,687 would have a few thoughts on the matter. 269 00:18:57,567 --> 00:18:58,367 But those who desire, 270 00:18:58,467 --> 00:18:59,947 quoting 1 Timothy 6, 9 through 10, 271 00:19:00,387 --> 00:19:02,887 but those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, 272 00:19:03,067 --> 00:19:03,787 into a snare, 273 00:19:03,787 --> 00:19:08,467 into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 274 00:19:08,947 --> 00:19:09,667 This is true. 275 00:19:10,347 --> 00:19:15,447 If the reason why you're getting into Bitcoin or the stock market or any other thing is 276 00:19:15,447 --> 00:19:21,807 just to get wealthy and it's just to get wealthy quickly, you ought to be afraid because, 277 00:19:21,807 --> 00:19:28,047 again, you're putting yourself in danger on a number of fronts, both spiritually and just 278 00:19:28,047 --> 00:19:33,887 in terms of your own investment portfolio 279 00:19:33,887 --> 00:19:38,387 and your monetary reality. 280 00:19:38,927 --> 00:19:42,427 And so this greed is never a reason to do anything. 281 00:19:43,047 --> 00:19:44,627 And so I think this is great counsel here. 282 00:19:44,687 --> 00:19:45,887 If you're considering buying into Bitcoin, 283 00:19:46,027 --> 00:19:47,087 first check your heart and be honest 284 00:19:47,087 --> 00:19:48,627 about what your motivation is for doing so. 285 00:19:48,967 --> 00:19:49,747 Is it greed? 286 00:19:50,027 --> 00:19:51,807 Then don't do it, okay? 287 00:19:52,287 --> 00:19:55,107 Again, he talks about, oh gosh, here we go. 288 00:19:55,107 --> 00:19:57,507 He brings up tech stocks in 2001. 289 00:19:57,507 --> 00:20:20,247 Yes, correct, correct. There was a mania in 2001. He brings up tulip bulbs in 1630. We have to do a whole nother episode on this. This basically is one of the most over-equivalented things with Bitcoin that I've ever heard of. Basically, there was this supposed mania over the price of tulips. People were buying them up and it exploded the value of tulips. 290 00:20:20,247 --> 00:20:25,007 the realities that didn't actually happen that way. And this bubble, once it burst, 291 00:20:25,067 --> 00:20:31,027 it never reemerged. Bitcoin, if you look at a Bitcoin chart, it explodes up and then bursts. 292 00:20:31,507 --> 00:20:36,287 It doesn't go back down to the level before the bubble actually happened. It goes down around 80% 293 00:20:36,287 --> 00:20:44,147 and then it continues exploding up a value every few years. And so this is not in any way analogous 294 00:20:44,147 --> 00:20:48,947 to the tulip mania in the Netherlands in 1630, but we can talk about that later. 295 00:20:49,467 --> 00:20:53,287 So again, he's sitting here and he says, when will the Bitcoin bubble burst? 296 00:20:53,527 --> 00:20:57,827 I don't know, but it is coming and I don't want any part of it. 297 00:20:58,647 --> 00:21:03,947 Now, again, I will remind you, this was, let's see, January 13th, 2018. 298 00:21:04,187 --> 00:21:07,027 Bitcoin's price was somewhere under $10,000. 299 00:21:09,007 --> 00:21:11,267 As of right now, let's take a look back over here. 300 00:21:11,827 --> 00:21:16,427 The price of Bitcoin right now is $117,650. 301 00:21:17,327 --> 00:21:22,207 Again, it's not that there was no wisdom in what Mr. Neckley was saying. 302 00:21:22,287 --> 00:21:25,407 It's that he was speaking confidently about something he didn't understand. 303 00:21:26,067 --> 00:21:30,587 And so he made what would be called in Christian circles a false prophecy. 304 00:21:31,167 --> 00:21:34,347 And this is one of these things where Christians should not want to make false prophecies. 305 00:21:35,147 --> 00:21:37,907 There was strict consequences over that type of thing happening. 306 00:21:38,727 --> 00:21:41,327 And again, this just doesn't make him look good. 307 00:21:41,827 --> 00:21:44,427 He also goes on to talk about the dark side of Bitcoin. 308 00:21:44,427 --> 00:21:49,247 apart from just the speculation and apart from the mania that can happen to result in the loss 309 00:21:49,247 --> 00:21:55,587 of lots of money. He talks about how, ooh, ISIS, ISIS and other terror groups are exploiting Bitcoin 310 00:21:55,587 --> 00:22:00,727 to fund their massive budgets and evil purposes. Just recently, a woman was arrested and charged 311 00:22:00,727 --> 00:22:06,387 with laundering $85,000 whole dollars and other cryptocurrencies to the Islamic State. 312 00:22:08,627 --> 00:22:13,687 Now, again, you may wonder why is Jordan laughing? Well, it's just because the scale of the things 313 00:22:13,687 --> 00:22:18,467 we're talking about, again, there's one side of this which is just funny for one reason. That's 314 00:22:18,467 --> 00:22:22,847 the scale of the things we're talking about are pathetically small. It's not to say that these 315 00:22:22,847 --> 00:22:27,207 aren't really being used this way. It's just that the scale is really small, especially when you 316 00:22:27,207 --> 00:22:32,887 take into account something like, let's say, I mean, look at something like Saddam Hussein. 317 00:22:33,207 --> 00:22:38,327 Saddam Hussein, when the United States went into Iraq to try to get him out of power, 318 00:22:39,067 --> 00:22:42,987 they went into a number of these properties that he had, and they found 319 00:22:42,987 --> 00:22:50,647 you know, to Mr. Nexley's credit, they found tons of Bitcoin. Oh, wait, no, they found tons of U.S. 320 00:22:50,687 --> 00:22:55,367 dollars. That's right. Saddam Hussein had no interest in Bitcoin. He had plenty of interest 321 00:22:55,367 --> 00:22:59,607 in U.S. dollars. It was, he had, I believe, you know, millions and millions of dollars. 322 00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:04,967 Also lots of gold for the gold bugs at home who are keeping track, who, you know, up to this point 323 00:23:04,967 --> 00:23:09,887 were maybe laughing about the fact that Bitcoin and dollars, yes, they are bad money. They're 324 00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:15,467 terrorist money. Well, they were also there being used illicitly as well. On top of that, well, 325 00:23:15,527 --> 00:23:20,627 you maybe say, well, yes, that might've been Saddam Hussein, but Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. 326 00:23:20,627 --> 00:23:25,187 Now, when we, under dubious circumstances, went there to try to get rid of him, 327 00:23:25,507 --> 00:23:30,487 remove him from power, despite the fact that basically he was, people in Libya, 328 00:23:30,707 --> 00:23:34,507 I believe they didn't pay taxes. They had a number of things because they were making so 329 00:23:34,507 --> 00:23:38,507 much money via oil. There was all kinds of great things going on, but they had the unfortunate 330 00:23:38,507 --> 00:23:55,054 the unfortunate distinction on the part of Gaddafi to try to start selling their oil for gold rather than U dollars The United States showed up went to war to get him out of there And when they went into some 331 00:23:55,054 --> 00:24:01,014 of these buildings, Gaddafi had tons of Bitcoin. Oh, wait, no, he also had tons of U.S. dollars. 332 00:24:01,474 --> 00:24:07,754 So the problem is that good things can always be wielded by evil people for evil purposes. 333 00:24:07,754 --> 00:24:13,954 this is always the case uh the fact that somebody could take here's the reality the fact that 334 00:24:13,954 --> 00:24:20,854 somebody could take a child and train the child to become a child soldier and then use the the 335 00:24:20,854 --> 00:24:26,374 you know the the ignorance of the small child to go and send him out to murder people as happened 336 00:24:26,374 --> 00:24:32,894 in a number of places in africa in recent years uh this is not somehow an uh an indictment of god 337 00:24:32,894 --> 00:24:34,354 for creating children, okay? 338 00:24:34,774 --> 00:24:38,854 You can take good things and very useful things 339 00:24:38,854 --> 00:24:40,634 and wield them for wicked purposes. 340 00:24:40,794 --> 00:24:42,074 This is true. 341 00:24:42,534 --> 00:24:45,394 And again, I guess the greatest culmination of this argument 342 00:24:45,394 --> 00:24:47,194 is realizing people themselves. 343 00:24:47,654 --> 00:24:50,474 Who created people who often use their life 344 00:24:50,474 --> 00:24:51,814 for awful purposes? 345 00:24:52,394 --> 00:24:53,014 Well, God did. 346 00:24:53,334 --> 00:24:55,274 Does the fact that God created people 347 00:24:55,274 --> 00:24:57,014 who were able to be corrupted, 348 00:24:57,274 --> 00:24:58,494 is that somehow an indictment of God? 349 00:24:58,534 --> 00:24:59,774 Of course not, that would be ridiculous. 350 00:25:00,194 --> 00:25:01,314 And the same is true of Bitcoin. 351 00:25:01,314 --> 00:25:07,034 Bitcoin is useful, and so that utility is useful for all people, including evil people. 352 00:25:07,974 --> 00:25:12,274 So then, let's see, Bitcoin, oh gosh, I missed this. 353 00:25:12,454 --> 00:25:14,414 I can't let this pass by here. 354 00:25:15,714 --> 00:25:22,614 Bitcoin may be the closest thing to blood money the world has ever seen. 355 00:25:23,434 --> 00:25:24,534 Goodness gracious. 356 00:25:26,074 --> 00:25:27,454 I mean, this is silly. 357 00:25:27,454 --> 00:25:51,134 There's been, I mean, I would argue, I don't even think this is, it's not an argument. There's been millions of people, millions and millions and millions of people, millions more people killed via the US dollar, via gold, via all these things than have ever, and arguably for a number of reasons that we'll get into in a future episode, will ever be killed because of Bitcoin. 358 00:25:51,694 --> 00:25:57,394 This is a nonsensical argument that Mr. Nexley is making because he doesn't understand Bitcoin. 359 00:25:58,354 --> 00:26:06,914 And he doesn't understand how it works and why and all of the amazing things that govern it and the reasons why Bitcoin works the way that it does. 360 00:26:07,274 --> 00:26:12,954 So he says this, listen, you are not evil if you buy some Bitcoins unless you're a member of ISIS and then you are evil. 361 00:26:13,054 --> 00:26:16,454 Yes, there are a hundred ways in which Americans are evil. 362 00:26:16,954 --> 00:26:20,074 We're war profiteering all over the world, doing all kinds of horrible things. 363 00:26:20,074 --> 00:26:42,034 But sure, let's focus on ISIS. They're the only ones who are evil. Unless you're a member of ISIS, you're evil. But there are significant problems with the Bitcoin economy that any wise investor must take into account before jumping into that dark pool. Allow me to summarize them here. Bitcoin is very weird. You probably don't understand what you're buying. And you don't understand what you're critiquing. 364 00:26:42,034 --> 00:26:48,234 You probably don't want to buy any Bitcoin because of the lure of fast, easy riches, that is greed. 365 00:26:48,874 --> 00:26:54,254 Bitcoin values have skyrocketed to ridiculously astronomical heights in a ridiculously short amount of time. 366 00:26:55,054 --> 00:26:56,914 Usually that means something has got to give. 367 00:26:57,434 --> 00:26:59,454 And usually that means that the bubble is ripe for popping. 368 00:26:59,974 --> 00:27:00,214 Okay? 369 00:27:00,754 --> 00:27:03,854 That he's not completely wrong. 370 00:27:03,974 --> 00:27:06,074 Again, there are corrections with Bitcoin. 371 00:27:07,294 --> 00:27:08,534 Bitcoin's price did correct. 372 00:27:08,534 --> 00:27:11,854 But again, it wasn't a bubble in the truest sense. 373 00:27:12,034 --> 00:27:19,074 Uh, Bitcoin is perhaps the bad guy's favorite thing in the world and is funding the most 374 00:27:19,074 --> 00:27:25,054 despicable acts of evil the world has seen in a very long time, all with complete anonymity 375 00:27:25,054 --> 00:27:27,294 and without the pesky oversight of law enforcement. 376 00:27:27,574 --> 00:27:29,354 This is asinine. 377 00:27:29,454 --> 00:27:30,354 This is truly insane. 378 00:27:30,474 --> 00:27:31,894 Bitcoin is not anonymous. 379 00:27:32,094 --> 00:27:33,094 Bitcoin is pseudonymous. 380 00:27:33,714 --> 00:27:36,474 Uh, it's actually, if you know what you're doing, you can track Bitcoin. 381 00:27:36,734 --> 00:27:39,374 Uh, and this has been done by law enforcement. 382 00:27:39,374 --> 00:27:56,614 And so this is just a total overstatement of reality, completely out of touch, especially for someone who lives in a nation whose currency is used for far more evil, including things like Jeffrey Epstein, including a banking system that knew about Jeffrey Epstein's activities and continued to allow him to do exactly what he was doing. 383 00:27:56,714 --> 00:28:06,594 And then they were content to pay a small fee years after the fact to try to compare and act as though Bitcoin is somehow worse than that is just completely out of touch with reality. 384 00:28:06,594 --> 00:28:25,054 And so he closes here and says, for all these reasons, you can count me out of the Bitcoin binge. How about you? That is, again, just nonsensical, silly to talk about something you don't understand. Now, how do we know? Why can we talk about these things and why can we critique Robert? 385 00:28:25,614 --> 00:28:27,694 Again, we've all been in situations like this. 386 00:28:27,834 --> 00:28:30,734 We all, when something first happens, we talk when we shouldn't. 387 00:28:31,174 --> 00:28:33,894 And then things happen, we learn more, 388 00:28:34,214 --> 00:28:37,334 and all of a sudden we're revealed to not know as much as we thought we did. 389 00:28:37,614 --> 00:28:38,474 Here's what I found. 390 00:28:39,254 --> 00:28:45,414 This was not the only article penned by Mr. Netsley about Bitcoin. 391 00:28:45,414 --> 00:28:50,534 This one is written, if you're keeping track at home, January 13th, 2018. 392 00:28:52,854 --> 00:28:53,854 A couple years later. 393 00:28:55,054 --> 00:28:58,774 April 1st, 2022. 394 00:28:59,474 --> 00:29:01,534 In the intervening four plus years, 395 00:29:01,914 --> 00:29:04,134 Mr. Nexley's tune has changed a little bit. 396 00:29:04,674 --> 00:29:05,734 Again, he's still critical. 397 00:29:06,134 --> 00:29:07,894 He's got only two articles on his platform 398 00:29:07,894 --> 00:29:08,554 talking about Bitcoin. 399 00:29:08,654 --> 00:29:09,374 This is the second one. 400 00:29:09,674 --> 00:29:11,434 It still is critical, but the tone changes. 401 00:29:11,514 --> 00:29:13,134 We'll see if you, dear listener, 402 00:29:13,334 --> 00:29:15,334 can keep track of his tone changing a little bit, 403 00:29:15,694 --> 00:29:17,594 evidencing that he's learned a little bit 404 00:29:17,594 --> 00:29:18,354 in those four years. 405 00:29:18,774 --> 00:29:20,094 His tune has softened a little bit. 406 00:29:20,314 --> 00:29:21,094 So here's the critique. 407 00:29:21,454 --> 00:29:23,814 Crypto investors risk total wipeout 408 00:29:23,814 --> 00:29:26,394 from platform bankruptcy, suggest SEC. 409 00:29:27,514 --> 00:29:30,374 The SEC releases guidance that cryptocurrency investors 410 00:29:30,374 --> 00:29:32,454 may be at risk of total and complete loss 411 00:29:32,454 --> 00:29:35,334 of their crypto assets in the event that the trading platform 412 00:29:35,334 --> 00:29:36,914 that they use files for bankruptcy. 413 00:29:38,394 --> 00:29:41,494 Okay, so this is looking at Coinbase, FTX, and Kraken. 414 00:29:41,494 --> 00:29:45,734 Oh, no, these are some of the biggest crypto investing platforms, 415 00:29:46,274 --> 00:29:47,634 biggest crypto exchanges. 416 00:29:48,334 --> 00:29:51,414 If they go broke, okay, so here's the actual, 417 00:29:51,514 --> 00:29:51,934 we'll just read this. 418 00:29:51,934 --> 00:29:59,894 the cryptocurrency, if they file bankruptcy, the cryptocurrency in the investor's accounts will 419 00:29:59,894 --> 00:30:04,554 be counted as liabilities, borrowed money on the trading company's balance sheet rather than 420 00:30:04,554 --> 00:30:09,394 private assets of the investor. Okay. Well, that's, I mean, that's ridiculous, right? 421 00:30:09,994 --> 00:30:14,954 We can talk about that. Why is that? That's what you're describing is because of the way 422 00:30:14,954 --> 00:30:21,054 that the SEC is treating this. This has nothing to do with the nature of Bitcoin. It has nothing 423 00:30:21,054 --> 00:30:26,014 to do with these platforms themselves. It's basically saying because of the arbitrary way 424 00:30:26,014 --> 00:30:32,114 that the SEC treats something, then you could risk total loss. And so this is the argument here. 425 00:30:32,594 --> 00:30:40,694 Okay. And so the problem is this is acting like the only way to custody Bitcoin or any of these 426 00:30:40,694 --> 00:30:44,594 cryptocurrencies, the only way to do this is to entrust your Bitcoin, your cryptocurrency, 427 00:30:45,014 --> 00:30:48,814 to one of these platforms. I don't know if he actually believes this or not, but this is the 428 00:30:48,814 --> 00:30:53,314 way that he's presenting the argument. The problem is that displays a complete lack of 429 00:30:53,314 --> 00:30:58,634 knowledge about Bitcoin and how it works. Bitcoin was designed to be able to be self-custodied. 430 00:30:58,974 --> 00:31:03,714 It was designed to be able to be custodied outside of a traditional banking atmosphere 431 00:31:03,714 --> 00:31:08,754 that requires trust. Within the Bitcoin white paper, one of the things that Satoshi Nakamoto 432 00:31:08,754 --> 00:31:13,634 said is that the problem with the existing financial system is all of the trust that's 433 00:31:13,634 --> 00:31:19,734 required to make it work. And so Bitcoin was actually created to be a system, a parallel system 434 00:31:19,734 --> 00:31:28,654 that doesn't require trusting third parties like banks, like investment companies like 435 00:31:28,654 --> 00:31:33,894 Fidelity or BlackRock or any of these guys. You don't have to do that. And so you can custody 436 00:31:33,894 --> 00:31:38,314 your Bitcoin in such a way that even if any of these other companies go bankrupt, you're unaffected 437 00:31:38,314 --> 00:31:47,334 buy them. So this is not some just dagger to the heart of the Bitcoin industry. It's just not true. 438 00:31:48,254 --> 00:31:51,134 Now, again, we go through, I'll let you guys read this. We don't need to go into it. 439 00:31:51,454 --> 00:31:56,294 But here's where we see the tune starting to change. In the four years, it looks like he's 440 00:31:56,294 --> 00:31:59,674 done some study. And this is what he has to say at this point, four years later. 441 00:32:00,254 --> 00:32:06,834 I believe that crypto will be here to stay in some form or another. And there are potential 442 00:32:06,834 --> 00:32:13,054 benefits. Ooh, oh no. Oh, Mr. Nexley's become one of those evil people who thinks that there's 443 00:32:13,054 --> 00:32:18,014 possible benefits to the cryptocurrency world. There are potential benefits to the overall good 444 00:32:18,014 --> 00:32:22,874 of society with a decentralized currency and further support that there are many benefits 445 00:32:22,874 --> 00:32:27,234 to the blockchain. Oh boy, here we go. Many benefits to the blockchain technology that 446 00:32:27,234 --> 00:32:32,454 underpins crypto. But the crypto craze that exists today is completely overdone in my opinion, 447 00:32:32,454 --> 00:32:35,474 and much, much more speculative than most people realize. 448 00:32:35,994 --> 00:32:37,094 Now, here's the reality. 449 00:32:37,194 --> 00:32:38,294 He's absolutely right about that. 450 00:32:39,094 --> 00:32:42,274 There is a lot of mania and a lot of craze 451 00:32:42,274 --> 00:32:45,114 within the broader crypto, quote unquote, crypto world. 452 00:32:46,154 --> 00:32:48,074 And so this is where it's really important to recognize 453 00:32:48,074 --> 00:32:50,674 that Bitcoin is one thing. 454 00:32:50,854 --> 00:32:53,674 Bitcoin was the very first cryptocurrency that was created. 455 00:32:53,934 --> 00:32:56,554 It was designed with certain constraints. 456 00:32:57,054 --> 00:32:58,454 It was designed to work a certain way 457 00:32:58,454 --> 00:32:59,494 and for certain reasons. 458 00:33:00,214 --> 00:33:02,014 Every other cryptocurrency that exists 459 00:33:02,014 --> 00:33:03,714 was created for very different reasons 460 00:33:03,714 --> 00:33:04,934 and they work very differently 461 00:33:04,934 --> 00:33:08,454 and they create a very different set of incentives. 462 00:33:09,874 --> 00:33:11,134 And we can basically see this 463 00:33:11,134 --> 00:33:14,174 because when basically the second cryptocurrencies, 464 00:33:14,494 --> 00:33:16,734 the subsequent cryptocurrencies that were created, 465 00:33:17,134 --> 00:33:17,854 Bitcoin is created, 466 00:33:18,034 --> 00:33:19,874 the first Bitcoin was mined in 2009, 467 00:33:20,534 --> 00:33:21,994 in January of 2009. 468 00:33:22,214 --> 00:33:24,274 Ironically, again, some would say 469 00:33:24,274 --> 00:33:26,454 that this is intended to be this way. 470 00:33:26,454 --> 00:33:30,634 On January 3rd, 2009, January 3rd, 471 00:33:30,634 --> 00:33:35,114 after the Bitcoin white paper was published on October 31st, 2008, 472 00:33:35,874 --> 00:33:40,134 October 31st, obviously famously the day that Luther nailed the 95 Theses 473 00:33:40,134 --> 00:33:43,314 to the wall of the church and to the door of the church in Wittenberg, 474 00:33:43,854 --> 00:33:46,234 the first Bitcoin is mined on January 3rd, 475 00:33:46,274 --> 00:33:49,914 which is the day, ironically, that Martin Luther was excommunicated 476 00:33:49,914 --> 00:33:51,314 from the Roman Catholic Church. 477 00:33:52,114 --> 00:33:53,674 And so this is when the first Bitcoin is mined. 478 00:33:53,954 --> 00:33:59,614 These other cryptocurrencies didn't come along, weren't created until 2011. 479 00:33:59,614 --> 00:34:21,194 Now, the question is, why two years? Why did it take so long for somebody to create another cryptocurrency? Is there anything else important or notable about 2011 when these other cryptocurrencies were created? Absolutely, there is. And that's because there's this famous thing in Bitcoin circles called Bitcoin Pizza Day. Once a year, I don't remember when it is, I believe in April, maybe. 480 00:34:21,194 --> 00:34:27,974 basically we celebrate Bitcoin Pizza Day, which is the anniversary of the first time Bitcoin was 481 00:34:27,974 --> 00:34:35,514 ever used for basically to complete a normal transaction, buying something physical, tangible 482 00:34:35,514 --> 00:34:42,214 in the normal, quote unquote, real world. There was a guy named Laszlo, who basically was one of 483 00:34:42,214 --> 00:34:47,754 the earliest Bitcoin miners. He was expending real world energy, paying for it, paying for the 484 00:34:47,754 --> 00:34:52,434 computation power, the electricity paying for these specialized computers to be able to do this. 485 00:34:52,554 --> 00:34:58,114 He had mined a ton of Bitcoin, so much so that Satoshi Nakamoto reached out to him and basically 486 00:34:58,114 --> 00:35:03,174 said, hey, I think you have so much of this. The goal, we want to make this decentralized. We want 487 00:35:03,174 --> 00:35:10,394 to spread around. We don't just want a few small people to be massive holders of a meaningful share 488 00:35:10,394 --> 00:35:15,734 of Bitcoin. We want this to get out to the masses and reach critical mass so this can get around the 489 00:35:15,734 --> 00:35:22,634 world. And so as part of complying with this and as part of honoring what the creator had asked him 490 00:35:22,634 --> 00:35:29,154 to do, this guy, Laszlo, decided to see if there was somebody out there who'd be willing to accept 491 00:35:29,154 --> 00:35:48,041 Bitcoin in exchange for pizzas These were Papa John pizzas two Papa John pizzas And so Laszlo ended up spending I believe it was 80 Bitcoin or no maybe it was 10 I think it was 10 Bitcoin on two pizzas Okay Obviously 492 00:35:48,041 --> 00:35:54,121 I'll let you at home do the math on what 10,000 Bitcoin would be today. But in 2011, Laszlo paid 493 00:35:54,121 --> 00:36:00,961 10,000 Bitcoin for two pizzas. This is super well-known, super famous. What's less known is 494 00:36:00,961 --> 00:36:06,681 that laszlo did this i think a total of eight times uh he did this a number of times and so 495 00:36:06,681 --> 00:36:11,861 this distributed 80 000 bitcoin out into the world and so this was the first time people 496 00:36:11,861 --> 00:36:17,001 recognized wait a second this bitcoin uh you know this cryptocurrency and somebody created this and 497 00:36:17,001 --> 00:36:20,341 then they used it to buy something in the real world and it clicked with a whole bunch of people 498 00:36:20,341 --> 00:36:25,721 who are programmers who understood that you can literally spin up a cryptocurrency in 15 minutes 499 00:36:25,721 --> 00:36:30,481 if you know what you're doing wait you're telling me that anybody could create their own cryptocurrency 500 00:36:30,481 --> 00:36:34,281 with rules and constraints that they design. 501 00:36:35,041 --> 00:36:35,981 And they can do this up 502 00:36:35,981 --> 00:36:37,541 and effectively make themselves, 503 00:36:38,181 --> 00:36:40,081 they can basically make their own economy, 504 00:36:40,601 --> 00:36:42,961 make their own Federal Reserve 505 00:36:42,961 --> 00:36:44,161 where they're on the board. 506 00:36:44,441 --> 00:36:45,821 This is something that was possible to do. 507 00:36:46,341 --> 00:36:48,201 And so all of these other cryptocurrencies, 508 00:36:49,341 --> 00:36:50,041 excuse me, 509 00:36:50,881 --> 00:36:52,021 all of these other cryptocurrencies 510 00:36:52,021 --> 00:36:53,061 or many of them, 511 00:36:53,141 --> 00:36:55,361 there were hundreds and then thousands 512 00:36:55,361 --> 00:36:57,941 that were spun up in 2011 513 00:36:57,941 --> 00:37:01,921 directly after Bitcoin was used for the first time 514 00:37:01,921 --> 00:37:03,141 to buy something in the real world. 515 00:37:03,281 --> 00:37:05,781 This is why you start to see things 516 00:37:05,781 --> 00:37:06,581 within the crypto world. 517 00:37:06,681 --> 00:37:08,041 This is why you start to see now 518 00:37:08,041 --> 00:37:10,321 there's hundreds of thousands of cryptocurrencies 519 00:37:10,321 --> 00:37:11,821 that are out there. 520 00:37:12,601 --> 00:37:14,521 And so again, this is a real thing. 521 00:37:14,641 --> 00:37:16,341 There is a mania, there is a craze. 522 00:37:16,421 --> 00:37:18,221 There are people who are creating currencies 523 00:37:18,221 --> 00:37:20,341 out of thin air, cryptocurrencies out of thin air 524 00:37:20,341 --> 00:37:22,721 to make themselves very wealthy. 525 00:37:23,301 --> 00:37:26,201 Some of them, again, some of them aren't as brazen as this. 526 00:37:26,201 --> 00:37:29,881 Some of them actually look at this and think, hey, we could do good. 527 00:37:30,301 --> 00:37:35,961 Think about if Christians started a cryptocurrency, we could do lots of good with the money. 528 00:37:37,061 --> 00:37:41,421 This is a dangerous way to reason from a Christian standpoint, because again, as we heard with 529 00:37:41,421 --> 00:37:46,481 the video that Mr. Nexley mentioned, listen, we could go out and invest in abortion clinics 530 00:37:46,481 --> 00:37:49,161 and make tons of money and then use that money to fight abortion. 531 00:37:49,721 --> 00:37:55,181 We could make tons of money through funding pornography, and then we could have all this 532 00:37:55,181 --> 00:38:00,881 money and then use it for good. And so this is where we ought to hear the apostle Paul in our 533 00:38:00,881 --> 00:38:08,381 ears saying, should we sin that grace may abound? Is this something that we ought to consider in 534 00:38:08,381 --> 00:38:14,521 Paul's words and our words ought to be, no way, far be it from us to consider that type of thing. 535 00:38:14,821 --> 00:38:20,161 So I agree with Mr. Nexley that there is a ton of mania surrounding crypto. There's a ton of 536 00:38:20,161 --> 00:38:27,421 mania surrounding the idea that the idea that the real technology, the real innovation about 537 00:38:27,421 --> 00:38:33,621 Bitcoin is the blockchain itself and not necessarily Bitcoin in particular. That is a horrible fallacy. 538 00:38:34,061 --> 00:38:40,981 The only thing in which Bitcoin, the blockchain actually has been able to work, able to benefit 539 00:38:40,981 --> 00:38:46,061 people has been through Bitcoin, been with money. And there's a whole host of reasons that we could 540 00:38:46,061 --> 00:38:51,681 go into and probably will go into on a further episode. So he's sitting here, he talks about the 541 00:38:51,681 --> 00:38:59,661 fact that the risk of total loss is real, just like I would argue, Mr. Nexley, the risk of total 542 00:38:59,661 --> 00:39:05,741 loss within the stock market is totally real. The risk of total loss if you lose your gold or your 543 00:39:05,741 --> 00:39:15,781 silver is very real. There is no risk off asset in the truest sense. There is no avoiding 544 00:39:15,781 --> 00:39:21,501 risk in investing. That's just a fallacy. That doesn't exist. And so he comes down to the end 545 00:39:21,501 --> 00:39:26,521 here and we see a shift, again, a further shift in his perspective on Bitcoin. I'm often asked 546 00:39:26,521 --> 00:39:31,281 about my opinion on cryptocurrency and whether investors should add crypto as an allocation 547 00:39:31,281 --> 00:39:36,661 percentage to their overall portfolio. This is in 2022, recall. My answer continues to be, well, 548 00:39:37,381 --> 00:39:42,201 it doesn't continue to. That certainly wasn't what you were saying in 2018. My answer continues to be 549 00:39:42,201 --> 00:39:51,441 Tread lightly, do your homework, and only invest with money you're capable kissing goodbye if you suffered a complete loss in your foray into the wild west of crypto. 550 00:39:52,501 --> 00:40:07,461 If that sounds too risky, then you should probably stick to more developed asset classes, or at least until such a time as the cryptocurrency market becomes more developed, volatility subsides, risks are lowered, and risk-reward targets are more readily calculable. 551 00:40:07,461 --> 00:40:15,721 okay again this is the the the problem with this as we just mentioned is there are no assets that 552 00:40:15,721 --> 00:40:20,761 where you can totally escape risk look at the performance of the bond market in the united 553 00:40:20,761 --> 00:40:25,261 states here in the year of our lord 2025 look at the bond market and the yields that the bonds have 554 00:40:25,261 --> 00:40:30,441 had recently the most accordingly according to governments this is you know many cases propaganda 555 00:40:30,441 --> 00:40:33,781 they want you to believe that this is the safest money that you can possibly have 556 00:40:33,781 --> 00:40:39,081 just give money to the government. It's basically a risk-free return. This just isn't real. 557 00:40:39,861 --> 00:40:45,041 That's not the world that God made. God didn't make a world of no risk. He made a world where 558 00:40:45,041 --> 00:40:50,801 he calls us to make calculated risk in order to be faithful stewards of the resources that he's 559 00:40:50,801 --> 00:40:58,381 given us. And so again, our goal should not be to evade all risk, should not be to avoid any and 560 00:40:58,381 --> 00:41:03,681 all risk. In fact, we have scriptural warrant for avoiding that exact type of thinking in the 561 00:41:03,681 --> 00:41:08,681 parable of the stewards where you have a rich man who's getting ready to go on a journey. He gives 562 00:41:08,681 --> 00:41:14,421 one steward five talents. He gives another steward, I believe it's, is it two? And then one, or yeah, 563 00:41:14,521 --> 00:41:19,261 I think it's five, two, and one. He gives the, you know, the one guy. And so basically gives the, 564 00:41:19,421 --> 00:41:24,761 gives out these talents. How do they respond? The first two, by the time he returns, they come to 565 00:41:24,761 --> 00:41:29,781 him and they say, Hey, you know, we, you gave us five. We earned five more. We doubled your money. 566 00:41:29,781 --> 00:41:34,361 great get to the second one the second one was hey you gave me two i doubled your return we have four 567 00:41:34,361 --> 00:41:41,621 incredible you doubled your money great the third man what does he say i i knew that you were a harsh 568 00:41:41,621 --> 00:41:46,621 man and you bury and so i buried the current or i buried the money i buried in the ground 569 00:41:46,621 --> 00:41:51,661 and how does the the the steward okay the person who gave them the money how does he respond 570 00:41:51,661 --> 00:41:57,661 he's he's basically the stand-in for for god in this story and so he basically says you wicked 571 00:41:57,661 --> 00:42:03,861 servant. You tried to avoid risk. You buried it and didn't even get me, it didn't even double it. 572 00:42:03,921 --> 00:42:07,461 You didn't even get me any kind of return, even the type of return you could have got if you'd 573 00:42:07,461 --> 00:42:12,141 taken my money and put it in the bank and got an interest from the bankers lending it out to other 574 00:42:12,141 --> 00:42:16,781 people. This is something you could have done, but you didn't. You tried to avoid all risk. 575 00:42:17,781 --> 00:42:22,441 And he calls him, you know, an unfaithful servant. He's actually the one who's commended the least, 576 00:42:22,441 --> 00:42:28,561 the one who's rebuked in the story. And yet this is the situation in which many of us intuitively 577 00:42:28,561 --> 00:42:34,021 find ourselves tempted to put ourselves in that situation of taking as little risk as possible. 578 00:42:35,221 --> 00:42:43,621 God calls us to take risk, entrusting the risk that we're taking, calculated risk to him. 579 00:42:44,081 --> 00:42:50,781 Because by taking risks with our time, with our lives, with our money, basically we're demonstrating 580 00:42:50,781 --> 00:42:57,541 that we actually trust God. We demonstrate that he is a good God, that he has things that he wants 581 00:42:57,541 --> 00:43:01,481 in the world. And there's places, you know, demonstrating that by putting this money to work, 582 00:43:01,481 --> 00:43:09,121 then we can, you know, we can, we trust him. We're going to entrust ourselves to him in that while 583 00:43:09,121 --> 00:43:13,781 we are acting, we're going to use our minds. We're going to use and try to think and act 584 00:43:13,781 --> 00:43:19,661 in the way that we think he would have us do. You know, this is what faithful stewardship looks like. 585 00:43:19,661 --> 00:43:48,761 And so, again, we ought not to want to avoid any risk. We ought to be looking for calculator risk, and calculator risk requires information about the situations that we find ourselves in. Calculator risk requires knowledge of situations, knowledge of ourselves, knowledge of the situation in which we're considering putting capital, investing capital, or even in the situation in which we're considering saving. 586 00:43:48,761 --> 00:43:51,021 in the case of doing something like buying Bitcoin. 587 00:43:51,861 --> 00:43:53,321 So again, all of these things. 588 00:43:53,441 --> 00:43:55,461 So we see, if you're keeping track at home, 589 00:43:55,641 --> 00:43:57,861 we see a large difference, a huge difference 590 00:43:57,861 --> 00:44:01,821 in the way that Mr. Nexley talks about Bitcoin 591 00:44:01,821 --> 00:44:04,361 between 2018 and 2022. 592 00:44:05,001 --> 00:44:08,621 Again, I know I've been joking and being a little bit, 593 00:44:08,621 --> 00:44:11,521 I wouldn't say uncharitable, 594 00:44:11,681 --> 00:44:14,181 but maybe a little bit jokingly harsh with him. 595 00:44:14,341 --> 00:44:16,641 Again, this is the, gratefully, 596 00:44:16,801 --> 00:44:18,301 this is the path that a lot of us go down. 597 00:44:18,301 --> 00:44:30,481 We think Bitcoin's, when you first find it, you think it's folly, you think it's stupid, you think it's a scam. And then over time, as you look at it more, as you do more work to try to understand it, you realize, oh no, this is actually far different than I initially thought. 598 00:44:30,481 --> 00:44:48,521 And so I don't know what Mr. Dexley thinks about Bitcoin in the year of our Lord, 2025. I'm hopeful that he's done more research and that due to the fact that Bitcoin, even from where it was in 2022 at its peak, I believe, actually, I think the peak was in 2021. 599 00:44:48,521 --> 00:44:52,901 So by the time 2022, I believe it went as low as like 17, 18,000. 600 00:44:54,421 --> 00:44:59,481 I would hope that he's done more work to try to understand it and that he would look back 601 00:44:59,481 --> 00:45:04,681 on both of these articles with shame and speak differently about it. 602 00:45:04,701 --> 00:45:08,941 But again, hopefully, dear reader or dear listener, dear watcher, we'll get to have 603 00:45:08,941 --> 00:45:12,161 him on the podcast and see what he thinks about it these days. 604 00:45:12,701 --> 00:45:18,361 Again, in conclusion, this ought to just be a really encouraging thing for all of you. 605 00:45:18,361 --> 00:45:48,261 This ought to be encouraging because somebody who is as intelligent, as successful as Mr. Netsley, he's somebody who's experienced all kinds of well-deserved success, well-deserved and understands and looks at the world in very good, faithful ways, understands the ways that God is trying to act in the world, is motivated by the good desire to honor the Lord and invest God's money in things that will produce all kinds of benefits. 606 00:45:48,261 --> 00:45:53,921 not just monetary benefits. Somebody as intelligent as him and as successful as him, 607 00:45:54,041 --> 00:46:00,761 if they can get Bitcoin wrong, then you ought to take heart. The fact that you might understand 608 00:46:00,761 --> 00:46:06,781 Bitcoin, it shouldn't actually surprise us. It shouldn't surprise us because in reality, 609 00:46:07,041 --> 00:46:12,661 money itself is very complicated. And Bitcoin, at least how it works and everything, 610 00:46:12,661 --> 00:46:19,521 is also very complicated. And so it takes time. It takes a dedicated study in order to understand 611 00:46:19,521 --> 00:46:25,401 why Bitcoin exists, why it was created, what problems that it was created to solve. And to 612 00:46:25,401 --> 00:46:30,801 understand that those problems don't always coincide with the things that are important to 613 00:46:30,801 --> 00:46:38,321 the person who is telling you about Bitcoin. Or that's even important to the vast majority of 614 00:46:38,321 --> 00:46:42,801 people who you might be hearing talk about Bitcoin. The fact that something is important to them, 615 00:46:42,861 --> 00:46:47,061 the fact that Bitcoin serves some purpose for them is not necessarily an indication positively 616 00:46:47,061 --> 00:46:52,761 or negatively about how you ought to think about Bitcoin. So we're going to leave it there for this 617 00:46:52,761 --> 00:46:58,261 week. That is a, again, we've been going for a while. This won't be the last one of these we do. 618 00:46:58,361 --> 00:47:03,421 There's a bunch of other folks. Again, Robert, would love to have you on the podcast. Would love 619 00:47:03,421 --> 00:47:09,461 to kind of see where you're, what you're thinking about Bitcoin these days. Again, we're super 620 00:47:09,461 --> 00:47:15,161 grateful for your life and your ministry and what Inspire Advisors are doing, broadly speaking, 621 00:47:15,481 --> 00:47:20,041 and would love to have you back and see you guys on future episodes of the Thank God for Bitcoin 622 00:47:20,041 --> 00:47:20,361 podcast.