1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,080 And we are live. Welcome to the Thank God for Bitcoin podcast. My name is Jordan Bush. 2 00:00:12,420 --> 00:00:16,520 I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, which exists to help Christians understand and use 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:22,300 Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere. I am joined today by most 4 00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:26,460 of the regular casting crew of the Mountain Presby's. I'll let them introduce themselves. 5 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:33,920 my name is tim fox executive director of the magnolia foundation i am a ordained minister 6 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:39,420 and also working with the magnolia foundation to teach the church how to use how and why to use 7 00:00:39,420 --> 00:00:46,260 bitcoin my name is jim mcandrew i work with tim at magnolia as tech support i'm an entrepreneur 8 00:00:46,260 --> 00:00:52,520 software developer and an ordained deacon in the pca church in america my name is ben haley i'm a 9 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:59,700 pastor of Redeemer, Presbyterian Church College Station, Texas, and I also work with Magnalia as 10 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:05,220 well. Love it. Grateful for you guys. Glad you can be here. Basically, what we do every week is we 11 00:01:05,220 --> 00:01:11,000 spend time on Twitter, and so we want to redeem the Twitter time. And so basically what we do is 12 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,280 we get together and we talk about things that we found helpful. All of them will have, well, 13 00:01:15,300 --> 00:01:20,980 most of them will have tangential relation to Bitcoin. Again, we find ourselves as Bitcoiners, 14 00:01:20,980 --> 00:01:25,860 we consume a lot of Bitcoin content, whether it's people predicting price or talking about 15 00:01:25,860 --> 00:01:30,660 different ways and places where Bitcoin is being used. And yet at the same time, there's other 16 00:01:30,660 --> 00:01:35,140 things that we just realized that we need. And so some of these things that we'll talk about 17 00:01:35,140 --> 00:01:40,980 are directly related. Some of them are not directly related. So this episode, episode 33, 18 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:46,680 entitled We Reap What We Sow, subtitle, which I didn't want to include for brevity, was basically, 19 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,840 and that should either scare or encourage you. 20 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:52,400 This can be, God has designed the world to work 21 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,320 according to this principle of sowing and reaping. 22 00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:56,460 It can be a helpful, great thing, 23 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:59,560 or it can be a thing that is terrifying and bad. 24 00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:02,260 And so what we want to do is we want to start up 25 00:02:02,260 --> 00:02:04,940 with a tweet that Tim shared. 26 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,140 Let's see here. 27 00:02:06,340 --> 00:02:10,460 Well, Tim, this is the one with our favorite OpenAI guys. 28 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,800 Do we want to listen to this full video? 29 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:13,920 Great, yeah. 30 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:21,240 So Sam Altman, obviously founder of OpenAI, is sitting here talking about how great AI is and how important it is and, you know, giving himself. 31 00:02:22,060 --> 00:02:22,840 I think he's full of himself. 32 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:32,680 So we have Lee Heppner who observes, these guys have clearly convinced themselves that what they're doing is important beyond human comprehension, but are utterly incapable of communicating what it is. 33 00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:36,140 In another era, we'd call it a pyramid scheme or just idolatry. 34 00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:36,840 Tim. 35 00:02:39,380 --> 00:02:40,220 Well, yeah. 36 00:02:40,340 --> 00:02:43,740 I mean, it's like a pyramid scheme and idolatry. 37 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:48,820 theologous speaking are the same thing. I mean, there's no greater rug pull than worshiping a 38 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:54,760 false god in an eternal sense. And so, yeah, I mean, it's just, I don't know, you know, this is 39 00:02:54,760 --> 00:03:01,500 going to be evergreen probably for many decades to come, but this kind of utopian view of AI as 40 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:06,780 the be all and end all, it's going to solve everything and fix everything amidst many 41 00:03:06,780 --> 00:03:12,020 concerns, to put it mildly, about what this means for us and our vocations and our relationships. 42 00:03:12,020 --> 00:03:19,100 But yeah, I don't know, just again, kind of Tower of Babel, part 275,000 in the human story. 43 00:03:20,620 --> 00:03:28,920 Humans tend to be very confident about their ability to control the future and their ability to keep the genies in the bottle. 44 00:03:29,660 --> 00:03:39,980 And we should be praying for God's mercy in the midst of all this as it comes forward and for people to wield these very powerful tools wisely. 45 00:03:42,020 --> 00:03:53,420 Yeah, this is one of these things where, again, it's easy to point at them and go, yeah, it's easy to critique the AI guys because we're not AI guys. 46 00:03:54,380 --> 00:03:59,100 But I do think if we're going to use just weights and measures, which to Tim is a very important thing to talk about. 47 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,120 If we're going to talk about that, we're going to use equal weights and measures to critique these things. 48 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:10,000 I mean, I think we still ought to think about Bitcoin in this regard too. 49 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:22,180 Right. Because there I mean, there we can still think about a pretty dystopian way for, you know, oppressive rulers to to leverage what Bitcoin is against the people who use it. 50 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:31,120 Right. So I'm just imagining there could be some warlord who in a feature where everybody has Bitcoin on their phone, he sets up a checkpoint, makes everybody pass through. 51 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,300 And knowing that everybody's got their wealth on their phone, you know, like he could potentially do things like this. 52 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:42,060 Well, Jim and I just did a couple of talks on this idea of slavery. 53 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,380 What does it mean to be a slave? 54 00:04:43,620 --> 00:04:45,060 What is the ultimate form of slavery? 55 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:47,920 Biblically speaking, is being a slave to sin. 56 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,760 And the ultimate redemption is being freed from sin. 57 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,380 And he and I were riffing on this quote from Augustine from, I think it's in The City of God, 58 00:04:55,620 --> 00:05:00,480 where he talks about how it's vastly worse to be the slave of a lust than the slave of a man. 59 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,560 and how, you know, as bad as it is to have the AI overlords 60 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,240 tyrannizing everyone and destroying their lives, 61 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,100 it's actually much, much worse to be a slave to your own desires. 62 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,780 Augustine, interestingly, you know, he's using lust broadly. 63 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:18,220 He doesn't just mean sexual lust, 64 00:05:18,260 --> 00:05:20,060 although that's often prominent in his thinking. 65 00:05:20,380 --> 00:05:22,480 He means kind of all forms of desire. 66 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,980 But what he specifies there in the next sentence is the lust to rule, 67 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:28,240 the lust to be charged, the lust to have power. 68 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:36,800 And, you know, in that way, okay, let's imagine Sam Altman becomes the great tyrant who's destroying the world for his great ends. 69 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:37,900 Who's in the worst situation? 70 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,460 Well, Augustine would say it's Sam Altman is actually the worst slave that he knew. 71 00:05:43,060 --> 00:05:43,160 Yep. 72 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:58,120 Yeah, this is, it's also why, again, it's one of the reasons why when you see there's parts in the scripture we've talked about at different points about a biblical or Christian case for disobedience of rulers. 73 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,460 you know like there's you can use the case of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the Old Testament 74 00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:07,580 like I think there's a pretty easy case to be made that they like their disobedience was the 75 00:06:07,580 --> 00:06:11,860 most loving thing that could possibly have happened to Nebuchadnezzar at that point because they 76 00:06:11,860 --> 00:06:18,560 loved him enough to not obey him and indulge his delusions that that he was the god that he was a 77 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,320 god and deserving to be worshiped and so all right I do think it's the thing this argument about what 78 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,220 do you do if a crazed family member comes to you and asks for their gun back yeah you say no 79 00:06:28,220 --> 00:06:29,900 The loving thing is to say, no, absolutely not. 80 00:06:30,140 --> 00:06:31,600 You've lost the ability to use this. 81 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:35,320 Jim? 82 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:40,580 Yeah, I would chime in here and say that the perspective that they can't explain it 83 00:06:40,580 --> 00:06:43,720 isn't exactly accurate in my opinion. 84 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,940 I think that they can explain it. 85 00:06:46,020 --> 00:06:48,720 I just don't think they want to say the quiet part out loud right now. 86 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,440 I think what they do is they beat around the bush and they say things like, 87 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,540 oh, it's going to be so great because it's going to cure all these diseases 88 00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:58,200 and end poverty and all this stuff. 89 00:06:58,220 --> 00:07:04,320 but their real motivation is they want to bring about the end of humanity not necessarily in like 90 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:10,420 a nefarious way where we're all getting nuclear bombs dropped on us and we all die uh but it's 91 00:07:10,420 --> 00:07:16,720 effectively the same thing because the machine intelligence replaces human intelligence and it 92 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,480 goes on to spread consciousness throughout the stars and blah blah blah whatever their 93 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,160 woo-woo, mystical vibes, 94 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:25,460 gods of vibration, 95 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,220 spiritualism tells them, right? 96 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:31,180 And so that's how they justify it in their minds. 97 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,260 But they can't say that 98 00:07:32,260 --> 00:07:33,580 because if they say that, 99 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:36,920 then all the humans will get scared, 100 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,040 which is exactly what actually happened 101 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,100 when Elon was at this dinner, 102 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:45,640 essentially with like Sergey Brin. 103 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,300 I was just watching Preston Pysh and Seb 104 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:49,660 just came out with an episode. 105 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,120 They're kind of reviewing this book. 106 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,040 on Sam Altman, how OpenAI started. 107 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:55,920 And they're talking about this little vignette 108 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,040 where Elon is invited to this dinner party 109 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:00,960 with Sam and Sergey and Larry. 110 00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:03,520 And they're all sort of talking about 111 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,500 essentially the end of humanity. 112 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,100 And Elon's kind of like, 113 00:08:07,180 --> 00:08:07,940 what are you guys talking about? 114 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:08,500 That's crazy. 115 00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:10,240 And they all turn around and look at him 116 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,620 and call him a speciesist or a speciesist. 117 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:13,880 I'm not sure how to pronounce it. 118 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,100 He's like, okay, yeah, I'm a speciesist. 119 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:18,640 I want humans to live. 120 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:19,040 Great. 121 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:27,880 so yeah it's it's just so unhinged like this is one of these things where it's just so unhinged 122 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,360 but again and so but yet why are why are these why are people still going on with this right 123 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,800 they're going a lot why are they pumping money into all these ai companies well because the love 124 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,260 of money is a root of all kinds of evil like there's there's trillions of dollars to be made 125 00:08:41,260 --> 00:08:46,020 and so that's why people are willing to look past all the dangers willing to look past all these 126 00:08:46,020 --> 00:08:51,680 things because there's a prospect of short-term gain. Yeah. In the short term for sure. But the 127 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:58,460 long-term they are attempting to transcend their humanity and get around having to believe in 128 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:04,900 Christ in order to do that. Exactly. Yeah. So that's why this gets, this gets dark very quickly. 129 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,840 And also, I mean, it exposes a whole host of heretical and, and like anti-reality views of, 130 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:17,440 people, why they exist, the nature of work, you know, to try to just get rid of these things. 131 00:09:17,620 --> 00:09:22,960 Like this is, I mean, this is a different religion. Like this is, I would quibble a little 132 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,220 bit with what Jim just said. I don't think it's that you can only transcend humanity outside of 133 00:09:27,220 --> 00:09:31,280 Christ. It's that you can't transcend humanity and that not even Christ wants you to transcend 134 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,700 your humanity and to try to do so is actually to become unhuman, like in Paralandria, the unman, 135 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:43,060 become demonic. And so, yeah, to the extent that you are trying to get beyond your species or your 136 00:09:43,060 --> 00:09:48,580 nature, you are dissolving it and destroying it into something hideous while actually never getting 137 00:09:48,580 --> 00:09:55,700 beyond it. And this is a political act. That's why, again, we have a couple of tweets about 138 00:09:55,700 --> 00:10:00,700 Christians and politics coming up, but this is where, again, this is not to say, there's a 139 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:05,140 difference between saying that Christians should be, especially pastors, should be super involved 140 00:10:05,140 --> 00:10:09,880 in politics. It's another thing to just acknowledge the reality that all of these kind of like that 141 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:15,660 spiritual things are inherently political. Like there are inherently political beliefs and actions. 142 00:10:15,980 --> 00:10:20,600 Everything you're doing is political because it's all about power. Like everything that we're, 143 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:26,360 you know, if we, if Caesar is Lord, then, then Elon is not, or Sam Altman is not. And, 144 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,240 you know, there, there's a hundred ways in which this is true. And so, um, yeah, I think that we're, 145 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:36,760 we've really, the church has not done a good job of, of thinking through a lot of these issues. 146 00:10:36,980 --> 00:10:41,280 And, uh, and so that's why we're part of the reason why we're in the situation that we're in. 147 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:47,660 I want to unpack what I said just a little bit there, because I wasn't trying to imply that 148 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:52,940 we're going to transcend our humanity ever. Uh, but there, I do have a question. The question is 149 00:10:52,940 --> 00:11:00,260 when Jesus is going on about being one with the father and at some point he wants us to be one 150 00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:06,100 with him like he's one with the father um i think it's john 10 right this whole monologue that he 151 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:14,140 goes on uh do you see any parallels there with the transhumanist ai people and sort of wanting to 152 00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:19,980 upload their brains become one with the super intelligence like is that like an antichrist 153 00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:25,420 version of that vision of what jesus is talking about what does it mean to become one with the 154 00:11:25,420 --> 00:11:33,740 father like he's one with the father? Well, I think we're not ever going to be one with the 155 00:11:33,740 --> 00:11:38,860 father the way that Jesus is one with the father, no matter what. It's more like the oneness of 156 00:11:38,860 --> 00:11:42,460 marriage where a husband and wife become one. That doesn't mean they become the same person 157 00:11:42,460 --> 00:11:48,920 or they dissolve into a third nature or something like that, or the wife becomes the husband. 158 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:57,100 And it's more of a moral unity, I think, a unity of purpose and direction, an alliance of goals. 159 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,580 Obviously, Jesus in the context is talking about his disciples loving each other. 160 00:12:01,660 --> 00:12:06,140 He's not saying, I want to dissolve all of you into one blob so that you're all kind of the same thing now. 161 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:13,640 No, it's only in kind of triune ultimate reality. 162 00:12:13,820 --> 00:12:16,100 God is Father, Son, and Spirit, but also always one. 163 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:23,000 And it's only in the Trinity that you can ultimately resolve this big question of how can things be united but also distinct from each other. 164 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:30,860 And otherwise, I think we're always kind of falling off one side of the horse or the other in terms of dividing against each other or blending everything together like pagans do. 165 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:41,700 And so, yeah, I think probably the transhumanists are leaning more towards the pagan side of things of let's blend it all together into one great consciousness, which is very scary from a Christian point of view. 166 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:46,940 Well, we have an example in fiction, the Borg and Star Trek, right? 167 00:12:46,940 --> 00:13:01,212 Picard gets subsumed into the Borg and he loses all sense of personal identity What that then Yeah you will be assimilated Exactly Resistance is futile So yeah even in redemption in the new creation redeemed 168 00:13:01,212 --> 00:13:03,332 humans are as united 169 00:13:03,332 --> 00:13:05,112 as they will ever be. 170 00:13:05,552 --> 00:13:06,932 And there is no more 171 00:13:06,932 --> 00:13:09,292 fighting and arguments and screaming and yelling 172 00:13:09,292 --> 00:13:10,772 at your kids or your wife and 173 00:13:10,772 --> 00:13:13,332 no more false attribution of motives. 174 00:13:13,612 --> 00:13:15,272 But people all remain distinct from each 175 00:13:15,272 --> 00:13:17,172 other and they celebrate that and they enjoy that 176 00:13:17,172 --> 00:13:19,292 about each other. And we'll be endlessly enjoying 177 00:13:19,292 --> 00:13:21,992 all these different people with all their unique perspectives. 178 00:13:22,392 --> 00:13:23,972 And yeah, I don't know. 179 00:13:24,012 --> 00:13:24,652 It's just, it's great. 180 00:13:24,712 --> 00:13:30,572 But all of that is, of course, in God and through God in his own, analogously, you know, 181 00:13:30,592 --> 00:13:31,992 his own unity and diversity. 182 00:13:35,052 --> 00:13:41,652 Yeah, I think Jesus talked about a relational attunement there on a human level as he's 183 00:13:41,652 --> 00:13:46,692 talking about as the Father and I are one in context of his disciples. 184 00:13:47,352 --> 00:13:51,032 We've been doing a series on relationships this fall. 185 00:13:51,532 --> 00:14:03,852 And our entire kind of starting point every single week is we start with the Trinity and then how that unity and diversity in the Trinity fleshes out. 186 00:14:03,852 --> 00:14:14,652 And how do we image that as human beings in our different types of relationships, whether it be marriage, your neighbor, friendship, whatever it might be. 187 00:14:14,652 --> 00:14:17,372 Jim I have a question based on 188 00:14:17,372 --> 00:14:18,392 so I'm trying to 189 00:14:18,392 --> 00:14:21,732 how does Common Grace factor into 190 00:14:21,732 --> 00:14:23,532 the way 191 00:14:23,532 --> 00:14:25,992 you're thinking about the 192 00:14:25,992 --> 00:14:28,092 the AI 193 00:14:28,092 --> 00:14:30,592 the emergence of AI 194 00:14:30,592 --> 00:14:32,932 and the potential for 195 00:14:32,932 --> 00:14:34,712 you know 196 00:14:34,712 --> 00:14:36,792 ending humanity 197 00:14:36,792 --> 00:14:40,112 well I don't 198 00:14:40,112 --> 00:14:41,952 my eschatology doesn't really 199 00:14:41,952 --> 00:14:44,492 allow for humanity to be ended 200 00:14:44,492 --> 00:14:51,552 by AI. I don't, I just want to make sure your eschatology is, is checking your, okay. I just 201 00:14:51,552 --> 00:14:57,192 wanted you to say it. Yeah. I don't, I don't think we're all going to die from AI. I don't think the 202 00:14:57,192 --> 00:15:03,172 Lord is going to let that happen. I do think that the Lord could, I mean, through common grace, 203 00:15:03,172 --> 00:15:07,912 there could be lots of blessings and benefits that even the heathens get to enjoy. 204 00:15:07,912 --> 00:15:11,152 And restraint. That's the particular thing I'm thinking about is the restraint. 205 00:15:11,152 --> 00:15:18,252 I don't yeah I feel like there could be a pretty big judgment kind of Tower Babel style version 275 206 00:15:18,252 --> 00:15:24,252 like Tim was talking about and so it's more just do we really have to go through that again I feel 207 00:15:24,252 --> 00:15:28,792 like we've the Lord has already taught us that lesson but of course nobody reads the Bible or 208 00:15:28,792 --> 00:15:38,372 reads anything anymore so yeah all right let's let's keep going here on this we'll stay on some 209 00:15:38,372 --> 00:15:43,712 of these notes. We mentioned politics. We mentioned the relationship between Christians and politics 210 00:15:43,712 --> 00:15:49,692 and how to think about this. We have a number of things. So let's see. Every time we have Tim on, 211 00:15:49,732 --> 00:15:53,832 it seems like we get a tweet from James Wood. We need to get him on the episode or on the podcast 212 00:15:53,832 --> 00:15:57,912 here at some point. I just don't want to follow that many people and I'm lazy. 213 00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:03,712 We totally should have him. I've been reading just about everything he's posting because he's on our 214 00:16:03,712 --> 00:16:08,732 committee. Cool. Yeah. The Christian, yeah. The Christian nationalism committee for, uh, the PCA. 215 00:16:08,972 --> 00:16:13,132 All right. So James friend of the program, uh, says it's good for civil authorities slash public 216 00:16:13,132 --> 00:16:18,092 figures to point the people to realities beyond politics, i.e. God, this helps people avoid the 217 00:16:18,092 --> 00:16:24,292 temptation of placing their ultimate hopes in politics. And so then actually here, let's, 218 00:16:24,292 --> 00:16:28,592 let's, uh, down here, we've got Charlie Collier with a respectful pushback. Uh, surely that 219 00:16:28,592 --> 00:16:32,612 depends on the nature of the pointing using God to enjoy the world, to speak in an Augustin, 220 00:16:32,612 --> 00:16:35,352 Augustinian idiom involves pointing to God. 221 00:16:35,412 --> 00:16:37,112 It just happens to be in an idolatrous fashion, 222 00:16:37,912 --> 00:16:39,592 to which James has another piece that he's written. 223 00:16:40,372 --> 00:16:41,252 Tim, what do you think? 224 00:16:42,832 --> 00:16:43,552 Yeah, I don't know. 225 00:16:43,632 --> 00:16:45,912 I just thought it was just a nice little quip. 226 00:16:46,012 --> 00:16:47,952 I think this was in the wake of the Charlie Kirk Memorial, 227 00:16:48,392 --> 00:16:52,032 which had a lot of people either completely gaga, 228 00:16:52,232 --> 00:16:53,312 this is the greatest thing ever, 229 00:16:53,312 --> 00:16:54,592 or this is the worst thing ever. 230 00:16:55,332 --> 00:16:58,512 And I mean, overall, I was very pleasantly surprised 231 00:16:58,512 --> 00:16:59,892 at how much Jesus appeared in it. 232 00:16:59,892 --> 00:17:07,692 And then to whatever extent, it was a Philippians 1 situation where people were disingenuously speaking of Christ for political aims. 233 00:17:08,252 --> 00:17:15,192 He was clearly being preached in many ways, and you should be glad about that, regardless of who was saying it or why they were saying it or how they were doing it. 234 00:17:15,312 --> 00:17:29,432 And as much cringe as there was theologically and ecclesiologically and politically, there's a lot of things that I would not feel comfortable in bringing that much kind of political grandstanding into a funeral. 235 00:17:29,892 --> 00:17:32,412 But it was like, wow. 236 00:17:32,632 --> 00:17:35,452 You know, I think, so I think James was trying to say, 237 00:17:35,852 --> 00:17:40,212 it's good even from a political standpoint 238 00:17:40,212 --> 00:17:41,692 to point beyond politics. 239 00:17:41,872 --> 00:17:43,392 And I think I've heard a couple other people 240 00:17:43,392 --> 00:17:48,192 say something similar of when you don't explicitly talk 241 00:17:48,192 --> 00:17:50,632 about Christ's supremacy over these things, 242 00:17:50,632 --> 00:17:52,652 what you are actually encouraging and implying 243 00:17:52,652 --> 00:17:54,052 is that politics is the ultimate 244 00:17:54,052 --> 00:17:55,412 and you kind of just leave people 245 00:17:55,412 --> 00:17:56,752 to figure it out on their own. 246 00:17:56,752 --> 00:18:11,372 And I think it's, even though it might be disorienting or disjointing to hear politicians or political leaders speak explicitly about Christ or about God and say, hey, this is what's ultimately important. 247 00:18:12,192 --> 00:18:16,892 We should be glad that they're saying it to whatever extent they actually mean it. 248 00:18:18,012 --> 00:18:26,172 Because, yeah, ultimately, politics is secondary to the ultimate redemption to come, even though there's a lot to do. 249 00:18:26,752 --> 00:18:29,432 between what is happening in this world and the world to come, of course. 250 00:18:31,572 --> 00:18:34,132 Weren't you saying that the Charlie Kirk Memorial 251 00:18:34,132 --> 00:18:38,132 may have been the largest gospel presentation in the history of the world? 252 00:18:38,512 --> 00:18:40,592 Yeah, I mean, I don't know how they count these things in terms of, 253 00:18:40,672 --> 00:18:42,412 oh, we got, you know, 100 million viewers. 254 00:18:42,512 --> 00:18:43,492 And it's like, well, okay, I don't know what that means. 255 00:18:43,552 --> 00:18:46,092 Does that mean counting everyone who watched it for 10 seconds? 256 00:18:46,232 --> 00:18:48,292 I mean, I just watched random clips of different parts of it. 257 00:18:48,372 --> 00:18:49,152 I didn't watch the whole thing. 258 00:18:49,152 --> 00:18:53,812 But if you kind of count that as people watching the memorial, 259 00:18:53,812 --> 00:18:56,872 then yeah, it's probably the largest evangelistic event in church history 260 00:18:56,872 --> 00:18:59,732 in terms of tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of people 261 00:18:59,732 --> 00:19:02,352 who heard about Jesus or heard the gospel. 262 00:19:04,792 --> 00:19:07,212 Yeah, I agree with James. 263 00:19:07,772 --> 00:19:10,932 I think it is good for authorities and civil authorities, public figures, 264 00:19:11,032 --> 00:19:12,772 to point people to realities beyond politics, 265 00:19:13,292 --> 00:19:15,352 really, which means realities beyond themselves, 266 00:19:15,632 --> 00:19:18,052 which is always a good thing that we, 267 00:19:18,452 --> 00:19:22,732 especially in the modern context where basically governments 268 00:19:22,732 --> 00:19:25,152 are treated like they are gods. 269 00:19:25,452 --> 00:19:28,472 You know, we think about them as not having any, 270 00:19:28,572 --> 00:19:29,732 not being accountable to anyone. 271 00:19:31,352 --> 00:19:34,332 At the same time, I think it's also good 272 00:19:34,332 --> 00:19:36,032 without needing to be a third way. 273 00:19:36,172 --> 00:19:38,372 I feel like, I think this is true. 274 00:19:38,472 --> 00:19:40,212 And especially in the context of the funeral, 275 00:19:40,332 --> 00:19:42,452 which you're correct, that is when this was posted, 276 00:19:42,972 --> 00:19:43,732 that is helpful. 277 00:19:43,992 --> 00:19:46,032 I think that's true. 278 00:19:46,352 --> 00:19:48,272 I think the bigger need at the moment though, 279 00:19:48,272 --> 00:19:52,232 is for, I think it's for Christians to know 280 00:19:52,232 --> 00:19:57,992 it's for Christians to think rightly about political involvement. Specifically, I would 281 00:19:57,992 --> 00:20:05,052 emphasize local political involvement. Like it's easy to just get stuck on the national stuff and 282 00:20:05,052 --> 00:20:10,772 then just become that, that become your whole diet. But like, I mean, uh, Josh Howerton, I should 283 00:20:10,772 --> 00:20:16,012 find this tweet, but Josh Howerton, uh, he's a pastor in the Southern Baptist convention. I think, 284 00:20:16,012 --> 00:20:28,852 Like he basically, he's more of a megachurch pastor, but he's been kind of going on his own little journey and been really good the last few weeks or like the last few months. 285 00:20:28,852 --> 00:20:32,512 He's just been willing to talk about these things in ways that are helpful. 286 00:20:33,012 --> 00:20:34,092 I got to find this tweet. 287 00:20:34,092 --> 00:20:45,492 He was basically talking about reading a political book, reading a book by Christians from, I believe it was like the 17th or 1800s. 288 00:20:45,972 --> 00:20:54,852 And he was basically saying like, man, every single one of these guys would have been slandered as a Christian nationalist, would have been considered as too political. 289 00:20:55,192 --> 00:20:57,412 These guys were doing election day sermons. 290 00:20:57,712 --> 00:21:00,052 These guys were super politically involved. 291 00:21:00,452 --> 00:21:02,592 The people he was reading, these were early Americans. 292 00:21:03,572 --> 00:21:09,252 And so I honestly think the bigger, like obviously there's things that transcend politics. 293 00:21:09,372 --> 00:21:12,672 I don't think that's the big need that the vast majority of Christians have. 294 00:21:12,672 --> 00:21:16,752 I think that's the overwhelming position, at least in the circles that we run. 295 00:21:17,872 --> 00:21:32,532 I think the bigger need is to think about, for Christians to think about and meditate on actually involvement in politics as a way, political involvement as a way of faithfulness. 296 00:21:32,592 --> 00:21:34,372 as a way to be faithful to the Lord. 297 00:21:34,852 --> 00:21:37,572 That's not to say that I'm not talking about pastors necessarily. 298 00:21:37,772 --> 00:21:39,332 I'm just talking about your average Christian. 299 00:21:39,812 --> 00:21:41,872 I think there's the average Christian, 300 00:21:42,032 --> 00:21:43,532 their political involvement is I vote. 301 00:21:43,532 --> 00:21:49,772 And then I might argue with somebody on Facebook about these things. 302 00:21:49,892 --> 00:21:50,892 When in reality, 303 00:21:51,032 --> 00:21:55,372 like there's so much political stuff that could actually be useful that you 304 00:21:55,372 --> 00:21:59,492 can do on a local level that could be loving and serving your community in 305 00:21:59,492 --> 00:22:05,452 very real and tangible ways that would give you opportunities to share the gospel. But I just, 306 00:22:05,552 --> 00:22:10,952 I don't think the great need, I don't think that what James articulated is the great problem of our 307 00:22:10,952 --> 00:22:16,292 era, even though I agree that it is a potential problem and there are people for whom it is a 308 00:22:16,292 --> 00:22:21,592 problem right now. Glad we all agree. Yeah, I kind of speak to this in a couple of different 309 00:22:21,592 --> 00:22:26,632 ways. I mean, I definitely make a distinction between the church as an institution and 310 00:22:26,632 --> 00:22:31,512 Christian's involvement in these things. 311 00:22:31,652 --> 00:22:32,752 I do make that distinction. 312 00:22:32,752 --> 00:22:50,892 And, you know, I had quite a bit of conversation post-Charlie Kirk events where that was kind of what I was emphasizing was like, you know, hey, look, my job is to do my job and I represent the institution of the church. 313 00:22:50,892 --> 00:22:59,692 my political message, if you will, big C political message, you know, is that Jesus is Lord. 314 00:23:00,252 --> 00:23:07,812 And now what does that, what does it look like for you to steward, you know, that call to love 315 00:23:07,812 --> 00:23:14,692 your neighbor in this particular arena of, you know, College Station or Texas or the United States 316 00:23:14,692 --> 00:23:16,712 It could be entering politics as a Christian. 317 00:23:17,012 --> 00:23:31,592 So I think that the just nagging thing I have there as far as like the Kirk funeral, but really just that kind of just representative movement was, yes, Jesus was proclaimed. 318 00:23:32,192 --> 00:23:34,312 I really loved, honestly, Marco Rubio's. 319 00:23:35,172 --> 00:23:36,672 That was probably my favorite. 320 00:23:36,672 --> 00:23:54,052 But it still comes with this right-handed kind of power that I just don't see Jesus affirming in his kingdom-building way. 321 00:23:54,052 --> 00:24:09,232 You know, even the disciples in Acts 1, they still think after everything that had happened, they still think Jesus, establishing of Jesus' kingdom really meant Israel taking over Rome. 322 00:24:09,512 --> 00:24:11,332 They still thought that in Acts 1. 323 00:24:11,412 --> 00:24:13,552 And he just basically was like, yeah, we ain't doing it that way. 324 00:24:13,832 --> 00:24:15,292 That's not how we're going to take over the world. 325 00:24:15,952 --> 00:24:19,492 Now, I think that was speaking to an institutional point there. 326 00:24:19,492 --> 00:24:30,512 Again, do I want Christians in politics seeking to implement beautiful laws, which we believe are God's good laws, for the flourishing of humanity? 327 00:24:30,752 --> 00:24:31,172 Absolutely. 328 00:24:31,452 --> 00:24:32,372 Please go do that. 329 00:24:32,832 --> 00:24:33,032 Right? 330 00:24:34,512 --> 00:24:36,812 So those are just kind of some of my thoughts. 331 00:24:36,812 --> 00:24:46,332 I think the power, the nature of the power, you know, I'm a big Capon fan, left-handed versus right-handed power from his parables book. 332 00:24:46,332 --> 00:24:51,892 and Jesus is going about it a different way 333 00:24:51,892 --> 00:24:56,132 as far as church, kingdom, institution stuff. 334 00:24:56,952 --> 00:24:59,452 Yeah, and this is where I just think 335 00:24:59,452 --> 00:25:03,472 we don't want pastors to go necessarily, 336 00:25:04,112 --> 00:25:07,092 pastors getting involved in being politicians, right? 337 00:25:07,152 --> 00:25:08,072 We don't want that. 338 00:25:09,352 --> 00:25:11,192 Pastors need to be pastors, sure. 339 00:25:11,192 --> 00:25:13,432 Unless they feel a different one. 340 00:25:13,792 --> 00:25:15,152 But what I'm saying is the vast majority, 341 00:25:15,152 --> 00:25:19,672 like it seemed like the the disciples were saying hey you're going to restore to israel 342 00:25:19,672 --> 00:25:24,112 restore the kingdom to israel so like they're basically like are we are we getting ready to 343 00:25:24,112 --> 00:25:29,692 reign are we getting ready to rule politically and jesus goes he doesn't even answer him actually 344 00:25:29,692 --> 00:25:34,352 and he basically you know goes on and he's like effectively no like you guys are going to go 345 00:25:34,352 --> 00:25:39,912 disciple the nations and so that that's what you're that's what you're called to do and so 346 00:25:39,912 --> 00:25:43,912 but again at some point this teaching them to observe all things that i've commanded you which 347 00:25:43,912 --> 00:26:00,064 is part of you know Matthew 28 19 to 20 is going to involve teaching like governing officials to obey Jesus because they are like they they been in steward stewarded with they been entrusted with political authority and they ought to steward it you know they ought to be taught what it looks like to steward it 348 00:26:00,064 --> 00:26:07,604 uh faithfully uh i mean i do go ahead tim sorry i was gonna change subjects a tiny bit or 349 00:26:07,604 --> 00:26:13,524 add something well i just wanted to say real quick one of the fun things when i was in my first 350 00:26:13,524 --> 00:26:18,624 call as a campus minister at Heinz Community College was, you know, I had like 10 students, 351 00:26:18,764 --> 00:26:23,245 you know, and we just got started. And then the vice president of that particular campus, 352 00:26:23,245 --> 00:26:27,424 which is the largest campus, there were like five campuses, but she was the big dog. 353 00:26:27,945 --> 00:26:31,684 She just started coming to my Bible study. She's like, is this okay? I'm like, what are you talking 354 00:26:31,684 --> 00:26:36,284 about? She's like, this is my first calling to be, you know, a disciple of Jesus. And I just felt 355 00:26:36,284 --> 00:26:43,665 honored, but I knew she was taking, I knew she was taking her heart into her job, her Jesus formed 356 00:26:43,665 --> 00:26:50,764 heart in her job. I mean, I get stoked about that. Yep. Yeah. I think, I think the danger is, 357 00:26:50,945 --> 00:26:55,645 first of all, not knowing our own history because like when you, I mean, this is, it's not like 358 00:26:55,645 --> 00:27:02,184 Christian political involvement and even like, you know, like explicitly talking about the 359 00:27:02,184 --> 00:27:05,445 scriptures at a political level. It's not like this is something new that we're just positing 360 00:27:05,445 --> 00:27:06,344 for the first time 361 00:27:06,344 --> 00:27:07,624 and like throwing out there 362 00:27:07,624 --> 00:27:08,104 is something like 363 00:27:08,104 --> 00:27:08,604 this is something 364 00:27:08,604 --> 00:27:09,245 Christians should do. 365 00:27:09,424 --> 00:27:10,485 This has been going on 366 00:27:10,485 --> 00:27:12,965 for like a couple thousand years. 367 00:27:13,044 --> 00:27:13,604 Like you really know, 368 00:27:13,665 --> 00:27:14,624 just shy of that. 369 00:27:15,184 --> 00:27:15,564 Yeah, I mean, 370 00:27:15,604 --> 00:27:16,705 that is true. 371 00:27:17,124 --> 00:27:19,705 But I think it's a question 372 00:27:19,705 --> 00:27:21,104 kind of like James's tweet originally. 373 00:27:21,225 --> 00:27:21,884 I think it's a question 374 00:27:21,884 --> 00:27:22,924 of priority 375 00:27:22,924 --> 00:27:25,245 or of what is foundational. 376 00:27:26,064 --> 00:27:27,225 And I, you know, 377 00:27:27,245 --> 00:27:27,905 one of the things 378 00:27:27,905 --> 00:27:28,844 I sent for us to discuss 379 00:27:28,844 --> 00:27:29,465 was this quote 380 00:27:29,465 --> 00:27:30,205 from Alan Jacobs. 381 00:27:31,405 --> 00:27:32,044 And I'll be sure 382 00:27:32,044 --> 00:27:32,804 because this is related. 383 00:27:33,764 --> 00:27:34,465 The social media. 384 00:27:34,584 --> 00:27:35,424 Can you share it on the screen? 385 00:27:35,445 --> 00:27:43,084 Tim. There we go. Social media user's prayer. God grant me cacophonous wrath about the things I 386 00:27:43,084 --> 00:27:48,124 cannot change, habitual neglect of the things I can change, and absolute ignorance of the difference. 387 00:27:49,864 --> 00:27:57,665 One of my concerns in a social media, everything is on a super fast news cycle society is, 388 00:27:58,284 --> 00:28:04,284 and I add on top of that, a society that since its foundation has been centrally concerned with 389 00:28:04,284 --> 00:28:11,184 political questions and political processes and political parties is that people obsess over 390 00:28:11,184 --> 00:28:16,725 politics and they think that the political process is really where the real action happens, 391 00:28:16,764 --> 00:28:20,925 whether you're talking from the right or from the left. And a lot of these things, to your point, 392 00:28:21,005 --> 00:28:25,524 Jordan, about people obsessing over federal politics, which we really can't do much of 393 00:28:25,524 --> 00:28:32,225 anything about, to the neglect of local politics in the local community. I totally agree. People get 394 00:28:32,225 --> 00:28:36,864 obsessed with federal political issues and federal political questions. And then you add 395 00:28:36,864 --> 00:28:41,745 cocaine into the mix with social media and people are getting just wound up nonstop and really angry 396 00:28:41,745 --> 00:28:45,084 and they're banging down the doors of their churches, demanding that their pastors speak 397 00:28:45,084 --> 00:28:49,304 to these things every, you know, sermon. You got to speak to issues I want to hear about. 398 00:28:49,745 --> 00:28:55,064 But to get back to my earlier point of what is the ultimate priority? Yeah, Christianity is 399 00:28:55,064 --> 00:29:01,225 necessarily speaking to political questions. We don't just sit here and especially from the 400 00:29:01,225 --> 00:29:04,044 Reformed tradition, we don't just sit here and think about the Sermon on the Mount and say, 401 00:29:04,104 --> 00:29:07,684 this is the be all and end all of we're just going to hide from the world and we're going to turn our 402 00:29:07,684 --> 00:29:11,145 cheeks and never let anything happen. No, there's a lot more going on in the New Testament and there's 403 00:29:11,145 --> 00:29:16,165 a lot more going on in the Old Testament that still matters and still applies. But there is a 404 00:29:16,165 --> 00:29:20,024 order of operations. There's a priority here. I was just reading the other night, Augustine, 405 00:29:20,124 --> 00:29:25,064 City of God. Okay, we're living in Christendom. Okay, we are 100, 200 years past Constantine. 406 00:29:25,064 --> 00:29:31,184 Christianity is the religion of the state. Augustine is not constantly talking in the 407 00:29:31,184 --> 00:29:34,784 city of God about, oh, isn't this great? Let's just go peddle the metal, more politics. This 408 00:29:34,784 --> 00:29:38,745 is going to be great. He has a lot to say to political rule, but he keeps talking over and 409 00:29:38,745 --> 00:29:43,764 over and over again about how we're exiles, we're sojerders. And that can be overdone, 410 00:29:43,764 --> 00:29:49,844 of course, that can become an excuse for escapism and retreating into pietistic 411 00:29:49,844 --> 00:29:56,344 you know, uh, harmlessness, but I don't think we should completely ditch it. I think there, 412 00:29:56,405 --> 00:30:02,165 there is a point there that even when Christianity is on top of society, so to speak, like it was in 413 00:30:02,165 --> 00:30:07,985 Augustine's day, uh, we are still sojourners and Augustine is constantly pointing people to heaven, 414 00:30:08,364 --> 00:30:13,764 to the world to come and, uh, suffering and evil and sin, never let you forget about that. 415 00:30:13,764 --> 00:30:17,844 And sometimes I just, in a social media world, I just, I get uncomfortable and I get concerned 416 00:30:17,844 --> 00:30:21,245 about people expecting too much too soon from politics, 417 00:30:21,264 --> 00:30:23,324 especially when someone like a Donald Trump 418 00:30:23,324 --> 00:30:27,005 who is far more favorable towards kind of our brand of Christianity 419 00:30:27,005 --> 00:30:31,084 than other options would have been, Kamala Harris. 420 00:30:31,884 --> 00:30:34,445 I think it's a little too easy and tempting to think, 421 00:30:34,524 --> 00:30:36,245 oh, this is it, we've made it, everything's going to be great, 422 00:30:36,304 --> 00:30:37,564 it's just going to be all uphill from here. 423 00:30:38,064 --> 00:30:42,645 And I don't know, I want politics, like Ben was saying, 424 00:30:42,645 --> 00:30:44,745 I want politics to reflect Christ and honor Christ, 425 00:30:44,945 --> 00:30:47,184 but we have to keep what's ultimate ultimate. 426 00:30:47,184 --> 00:30:54,005 And you can argue that the New Testament was written in a context where they were on the bottom of society and they didn't have time to think about political questions. 427 00:30:54,145 --> 00:31:01,645 But I don't think you can deny that the apostles and Jesus did not seem to care that much about political questions in their day. 428 00:31:01,844 --> 00:31:06,645 And we're not super uptight about speaking to all kinds of injustices that were going on. 429 00:31:06,905 --> 00:31:08,205 They had much bigger fish to fry. 430 00:31:08,324 --> 00:31:13,604 And I think we still do have much bigger fish to fry without saying politics is unimportant or Christians shouldn't be involved. 431 00:31:14,344 --> 00:31:14,524 Yeah. 432 00:31:14,684 --> 00:31:20,544 So just to piggyback on that, I've been talking the last several weeks about felt needs versus real needs. 433 00:31:20,624 --> 00:31:33,965 So in a particular interaction I had with a congregant who needed me to speak to the Charlie Kirk situation from the pulpit, I said, what felt need would I be satisfying for you at that moment? 434 00:31:33,965 --> 00:31:47,864 I said, my job is the real need. And so I point to Ephesians 6, which is the evil behind the evil and all idolatry behind all of the evil in the world is what I'm going to continually pound on, whether we live in a more Christianized state or less Christianized state. 435 00:31:48,844 --> 00:31:58,284 Calvin, the heart is the factory of idols. That's where I'm going to camp out. Right. That speaks to that greater allegiance of the Lord Jesus as Lord of our hearts. 436 00:31:58,284 --> 00:32:01,024 I don't know if that's 437 00:32:01,024 --> 00:32:04,104 That language of felt need, real need 438 00:32:04,104 --> 00:32:05,184 I think is big 439 00:32:05,184 --> 00:32:09,245 You know, Henry Ford's supposedly quote 440 00:32:09,245 --> 00:32:10,544 Of like, if you ask people what they need 441 00:32:10,544 --> 00:32:11,684 They're going to say a faster horse 442 00:32:11,684 --> 00:32:13,184 Right, that's a felt need 443 00:32:13,184 --> 00:32:14,804 But that wasn't the real need 444 00:32:14,804 --> 00:32:15,145 It was a 445 00:32:15,145 --> 00:32:17,584 And so I'm continually looking for 446 00:32:17,584 --> 00:32:18,564 In all situations 447 00:32:18,564 --> 00:32:19,884 What's the real need here? 448 00:32:19,985 --> 00:32:20,684 There's all of this 449 00:32:20,684 --> 00:32:22,304 Especially on social media 450 00:32:22,304 --> 00:32:23,844 It's amplified, right? 451 00:32:23,905 --> 00:32:26,684 There's this need to speak to these things 452 00:32:26,684 --> 00:32:27,925 In such a way that if you're 453 00:32:27,925 --> 00:32:32,544 son about these things, first of all, just read motives. And I've just kind of had to say, oh, 454 00:32:32,665 --> 00:32:38,584 I'm, I think I'm doing my job. I'm camping out on Ephesians six. Oh, I'm fighting a war. I think 455 00:32:38,584 --> 00:32:45,965 I'm engaging in the, the, the, the, the spiritual battle that my calling as a pastor called to 456 00:32:45,965 --> 00:32:51,324 engage in. Does that have impact? Absolutely. I think it has impact in all areas of life, 457 00:32:51,324 --> 00:32:55,624 in your marriage, in politics and all these things. Am I missing you somewhere there, Tim? 458 00:32:55,624 --> 00:33:00,344 No, I think you're right. I mean, I think you would agree with this. I think there are 459 00:33:00,925 --> 00:33:05,905 times when you should and you'd need to speak specifically to serious specific issues. You know, 460 00:33:06,304 --> 00:33:13,165 everybody, I think this is part of the dilemma is that everybody feels like their own time and 461 00:33:13,165 --> 00:33:17,945 their own age is uniquely troubled and things always used to be better and the world's about 462 00:33:17,945 --> 00:33:21,725 to end. I mean, Americans love to do this. Christians love to do this. The world's right 463 00:33:21,725 --> 00:33:27,264 about the end, unless we get the right people to fix things. I think I know the tweet you're 464 00:33:27,264 --> 00:33:31,005 talking about, Jordan, the guy talking about revolutionary era pastors speaking a lot about 465 00:33:31,005 --> 00:33:37,364 political issues. And it's like, maybe we're living in a time that is just as apocalyptic 466 00:33:37,364 --> 00:33:41,864 as that was, and therefore we should be speaking to these issues, but probably we're not. 467 00:33:42,564 --> 00:33:47,725 It's probably not as uniquely necessary for pastors to be totally dialed in into politics. 468 00:33:47,725 --> 00:33:52,324 if you just average out kind of, I mean, most Christians are going to live in relatively boring 469 00:33:52,324 --> 00:33:58,485 times where your main focus in church probably needs to be repentance, obedience, discipleship, 470 00:33:58,925 --> 00:34:02,665 which of course has all kinds of things to do with politics. But I don't know. I just think we 471 00:34:02,665 --> 00:34:07,645 need to be careful to think that, oh, well, my age is definitely the age where we're just as 472 00:34:07,645 --> 00:34:12,144 important as the revolutionary age was. And therefore I want to always be talking about 473 00:34:12,144 --> 00:34:17,385 politics. Yeah, I guess my thing is I don't see people like it again, maybe we're just, 474 00:34:17,484 --> 00:34:21,165 these are different circles because this is possible. But like, my thing is, I don't think 475 00:34:21,165 --> 00:34:24,524 people, I don't think the problem is that Christians are too focused on politics. Like, 476 00:34:24,564 --> 00:34:28,925 I just don't think that's the issue. I think, again, you guys have all lived in Texas. Like, 477 00:34:29,124 --> 00:34:33,445 these people are 10 times more involved in sports than they are anything else. Like, I just think, 478 00:34:33,484 --> 00:34:37,725 like, I think Christians are, and I think more of the people, especially Americans more broadly, 479 00:34:37,725 --> 00:34:42,845 I think I don't think that the overwhelming thing is that people are too involved in politics 480 00:34:42,845 --> 00:34:47,644 I think there's a small subset of people for whom that is their that is their sports like 481 00:34:47,644 --> 00:34:54,205 politics is their sports but like I I just and the people in my life I don't have tons of people I 482 00:34:54,205 --> 00:34:58,124 look around and I'm like oh man this guy's too focused on politics like I I think it's that 483 00:34:58,124 --> 00:35:03,564 involved like they're actually involved themselves or obsessing with the news on Twitter yeah it well 484 00:35:03,564 --> 00:35:10,284 the latter, I guess. Like, I, like, I, I think that for a lot of people, it's, it's been presented 485 00:35:10,284 --> 00:35:14,544 to them as more like, they don't want to be, they, at least they're not doing that, or at least 486 00:35:14,544 --> 00:35:20,604 they're trying, they're aware of that danger. And so the, they're trying to be more pietous 487 00:35:20,604 --> 00:35:26,385 by not being involved in politics. And that has its own negative downstream. So it's like the 488 00:35:26,385 --> 00:35:30,644 Lewis quote about bailing out the boat on one side. And then when really you should be bailing 489 00:35:30,644 --> 00:35:35,024 out the other side. I can't remember what the exact quote is, but like, that's, I guess that's 490 00:35:35,024 --> 00:35:39,984 the greater danger that I've seen that has resulted in us getting to the situation that we're in 491 00:35:39,984 --> 00:35:45,484 is because people have been largely, it's like, that's politics is too hard. Thinking about these 492 00:35:45,484 --> 00:35:49,644 issues, this stuff is too hard or too complex, or I just don't want to take the time to deal with it. 493 00:35:50,205 --> 00:35:55,604 Jordan, you're probably right that your average Christian in the pew, their primary sin in terms 494 00:35:55,604 --> 00:36:01,144 of damage and the amount of time and energy they spend on it are probably things like pornography, 495 00:36:02,185 --> 00:36:06,584 you know, sports, watching Netflix, being lazy, drinking too much, not eating well. 496 00:36:07,544 --> 00:36:13,225 Yeah, you're probably right. And I think that's generally what most evangelical pastors focus on 497 00:36:13,225 --> 00:36:17,425 in their serenance are those kinds of things. And I hear them being criticized all the time 498 00:36:17,425 --> 00:36:20,365 on Twitter by people who are like, why don't we talk more about politics? You guys are just 499 00:36:20,365 --> 00:36:27,104 focused on this pietistic holiness stuff. And I think maybe where I'm coming from, and maybe Ben 500 00:36:27,104 --> 00:36:33,845 too, is that I do think there is a significant idolatry issue with politics among American 501 00:36:33,845 --> 00:36:37,624 evangelicals. Maybe not everybody, but a lot of them. And part of what makes it different than 502 00:36:37,624 --> 00:36:44,245 your average sins of gluttony or lust or whatever, is that people who get wound up on politics 503 00:36:44,245 --> 00:36:52,725 and kind of fixate on it tend to be uniquely focused on other people in the church, 504 00:36:52,845 --> 00:36:55,185 what they think they should be doing and what they think they should be saying 505 00:36:55,185 --> 00:36:56,544 and what the pastor should be thinking and doing. 506 00:36:57,064 --> 00:37:03,665 And it kind of, I don't know, in a way it seems to multiply itself in some ways 507 00:37:03,665 --> 00:37:04,964 in ways that other sins don't. 508 00:37:04,964 --> 00:37:09,004 Would you maybe say it's, maybe it is a smaller percentage of people, 509 00:37:09,104 --> 00:37:10,104 but they're just more vocal? 510 00:37:10,345 --> 00:37:12,325 Would you maybe say that is the issue? 511 00:37:12,325 --> 00:37:26,345 That might be it, or it has more widespread pernicious effects in terms of I'm looking down on other people, I'm condescending towards other people, I'm on a pain in the neck to my pastor and to my elder eyes because they're not talking about it all the time like I out them to. 512 00:37:26,345 --> 00:37:33,945 You know, it's like, okay, if somebody's too obsessed with the 49ers and, you know, they just idolize the 49ers, okay, that's a problem. 513 00:37:34,325 --> 00:37:46,205 But, you know, they're probably not, you know, constantly demanding that the pastor denounce the Raiders fans from the pulpit or that, you know, they're constantly, you know, hating them in their hearts and think these are just the worst people ever. 514 00:37:46,604 --> 00:37:49,705 But you do see that kind of thing, I think, in a way with politics and political idolatry. 515 00:37:49,705 --> 00:37:57,124 I have a thesis just on a couple of notes one I think it's I think there's generational it's 516 00:37:57,124 --> 00:38:04,925 generational in in in here's where I sense myself turning as I'm now an empty nester 517 00:38:04,925 --> 00:38:12,385 thinking more about the world that my children are going to live in I know that like some some 518 00:38:12,385 --> 00:38:17,544 of y'all think about that when they're younger but I don't know why but it has become more 519 00:38:17,544 --> 00:38:24,725 prominent for me in the last couple of years. And it kind of hinges around, you know, nostalgia 520 00:38:24,725 --> 00:38:34,584 is a dangerous friend as you look back, right? And for example, you know, everybody's historically 521 00:38:34,584 --> 00:38:40,984 reconstructing the 80s. You know, for my generation, we're constantly historically reconstructing the 522 00:38:40,984 --> 00:39:06,617 80s for example of like it was great We didn have any of these cell phones or any of this business you know and those sorts of things But I just saying I think that Having been served in a primarily older congregation and then now pastoring a congregation where I am one of the oldest 523 00:39:06,617 --> 00:39:09,377 I might be one of the most 524 00:39:09,377 --> 00:39:11,277 you know conscious ones 525 00:39:11,277 --> 00:39:12,877 in my congregation now of like 526 00:39:12,877 --> 00:39:15,197 of what the world is 527 00:39:15,197 --> 00:39:17,237 going to be like and I think it has 528 00:39:17,237 --> 00:39:19,237 a lot to do with my age because when I was 529 00:39:19,237 --> 00:39:21,337 in the older congregation I was one of the 530 00:39:21,337 --> 00:39:23,297 least but it's all 531 00:39:23,297 --> 00:39:24,917 the older generation talked about 532 00:39:24,917 --> 00:39:27,037 and they're not 533 00:39:27,037 --> 00:39:28,917 chiefly on social media 534 00:39:28,917 --> 00:39:31,297 and so I think 535 00:39:31,297 --> 00:39:33,477 the ones that are saying this on social 536 00:39:33,477 --> 00:39:33,997 media 537 00:39:33,997 --> 00:39:37,577 it feels like a different brand. 538 00:39:38,217 --> 00:39:38,737 Yeah. 539 00:39:38,817 --> 00:39:40,397 And I'm trying to figure it out. 540 00:39:41,437 --> 00:39:41,597 Yeah. 541 00:39:41,717 --> 00:39:42,157 I mean, 542 00:39:42,257 --> 00:39:42,417 I, 543 00:39:42,597 --> 00:39:43,637 yeah, 544 00:39:43,717 --> 00:39:44,537 I look at, 545 00:39:45,537 --> 00:39:46,917 I think here's, 546 00:39:46,977 --> 00:39:47,457 here's what I think. 547 00:39:47,497 --> 00:39:48,337 I think that there's, 548 00:39:48,437 --> 00:39:50,897 there are people whose motivation, 549 00:39:51,057 --> 00:39:51,537 like let's say, 550 00:39:51,637 --> 00:39:52,517 let's say pastors. 551 00:39:52,517 --> 00:39:55,957 There are pastors whose motivations for avoiding talking about politics is 552 00:39:55,957 --> 00:39:56,597 because they, 553 00:39:56,657 --> 00:39:58,677 they are laser focused on the Lord. 554 00:39:58,877 --> 00:39:59,297 They, 555 00:39:59,357 --> 00:40:01,317 they want to help their people focus on, 556 00:40:01,397 --> 00:40:01,957 on the Lord. 557 00:40:01,957 --> 00:40:11,657 I think there's another large segment of church leaders for whom avoiding talking about politics is avoiding making their own lives harder. 558 00:40:12,457 --> 00:40:20,637 Or potentially avoiding issues that could result in a divided church that could affect their bottom line of their church operating. 559 00:40:20,637 --> 00:40:32,217 And so I think the issue is how you feel about this issue is somewhat determined by your own experience with maybe the church leaders in your life. 560 00:40:33,357 --> 00:40:50,137 And so, yeah, it is one of these things where, I don't know, I tend to just given the breadth of things that are going on, like the breadth of the insanity, like there's part of me thinks like, again, it's not called for us to want to talk about politics. 561 00:40:50,137 --> 00:40:51,757 or to do whatever. 562 00:40:51,997 --> 00:40:53,277 It's called for us to be faithful 563 00:40:53,277 --> 00:40:55,737 with the situations that we're given. 564 00:40:56,377 --> 00:41:01,197 And so if some of the great trials of our era 565 00:41:01,197 --> 00:41:04,897 are basically we've got laws that instantiate abortion, 566 00:41:05,097 --> 00:41:06,677 we've got laws that instantiate, 567 00:41:07,277 --> 00:41:09,237 what does it mean to be a man or a woman? 568 00:41:09,517 --> 00:41:10,997 Can we do trans stuff? 569 00:41:11,357 --> 00:41:13,157 It's going to come across as more political 570 00:41:13,157 --> 00:41:15,317 to speak biblically to these things. 571 00:41:15,317 --> 00:41:16,557 It's going to look more political 572 00:41:16,557 --> 00:41:18,777 compared to maybe what it's looked like 573 00:41:18,777 --> 00:41:25,237 you know in the past however you know however long past few couple decades or whatever um 574 00:41:25,237 --> 00:41:32,357 but yeah i okay i got a question george because i i like couldn't be less interested in politics 575 00:41:32,357 --> 00:41:40,177 but i i feel like i mean i'm millennial right yeah i feel like the system has betrayed me 576 00:41:40,177 --> 00:41:44,897 and there's nothing there and it's totally corrupt and then as a bitcoiner yeah and you look at it 577 00:41:44,897 --> 00:41:51,737 through that lens, I guess like all the energy that I would have to care about and breathe into 578 00:41:51,737 --> 00:41:57,157 politics is getting sort of siphoned over into Bitcoin because I'm like, well, the system's not 579 00:41:57,157 --> 00:42:00,677 going to be able to be fixed from within the system. So we need this other thing to come and 580 00:42:00,677 --> 00:42:07,997 sort of topple the system to correct it. Right. So are you saying like I should care more directly 581 00:42:07,997 --> 00:42:14,337 about politics as a Bitcoiner or as a Christian? Yeah. So, I mean, this is part of how I think 582 00:42:14,337 --> 00:42:20,657 about this is the easier thing is just to check out and do nothing. Like that is just the easier 583 00:42:20,657 --> 00:42:23,917 thing. And I think there's tons of people who are in your situation where they like in, in like, 584 00:42:23,977 --> 00:42:28,497 and I would even like, in terms of practically, like I haven't gotten super, I'm actually going 585 00:42:28,497 --> 00:42:31,977 to a political thing as soon as we're done recording this, but like, I'm not some super 586 00:42:31,977 --> 00:42:37,237 active person. And yet at the same time, like I look at it and I'm like, man, like the reason why 587 00:42:37,237 --> 00:42:42,257 there's garbage in a lot of these leadership positions in our city. And then at another level 588 00:42:42,257 --> 00:42:49,637 is just because the good people, let's call them, like the righteous people are more involved 589 00:42:49,637 --> 00:42:54,937 and more interested in, and again, things that they really ought to be. Like they're involved 590 00:42:54,937 --> 00:43:00,217 and they want to give their time and their energy to good stuff. And so it just leaves these, 591 00:43:00,217 --> 00:43:02,417 these positions open to people who aren't good people. 592 00:43:02,897 --> 00:43:08,737 See, but the narrative I tell myself is I'm not doing nothing. I'm, instead of voting at the ballot 593 00:43:08,737 --> 00:43:15,077 box. I'm voting with my dollars to defund their system. I think Bitcoin is very, very political. 594 00:43:15,337 --> 00:43:20,337 Yes. A hundred. And so, okay, let me, what I'm not saying is that Bitcoin is not political and 595 00:43:20,337 --> 00:43:25,037 that you're not, you're not doing something about it by owning Bitcoin. I own Bitcoin. I own almost 596 00:43:25,037 --> 00:43:28,977 all Bitcoin. So I definitely think that is very political. I think that that's very helpful. 597 00:43:29,077 --> 00:43:35,337 And I love it. The fact that yes, I'm having this deleterious effect on the nation state by 598 00:43:35,337 --> 00:43:39,337 just something as simple and as noncommittal as just buying Bitcoin. 599 00:43:39,857 --> 00:43:46,077 But what my point is, is like this, there's a part of this noncommittal attitude that 600 00:43:46,077 --> 00:43:49,077 a lot of Christians have that is just laziness. 601 00:43:49,617 --> 00:43:55,077 And it is just, it's like, it's desiring to not have to do inconvenient things. 602 00:43:55,277 --> 00:43:57,897 It's because we all have plenty of money. 603 00:43:58,257 --> 00:43:58,437 Yeah. 604 00:43:58,437 --> 00:44:04,877 I mean, honestly, it's entering into a mass, you know, 605 00:44:04,877 --> 00:44:07,977 a wholesale Great Depression, everyone becomes political. 606 00:44:08,777 --> 00:44:09,677 Okay, yeah. 607 00:44:09,937 --> 00:44:10,817 So that's part of it. 608 00:44:10,857 --> 00:44:12,637 Even in our broken fiat money system, 609 00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:16,877 we are still the richest country in the world by magnitudes. 610 00:44:17,437 --> 00:44:20,357 And so everybody's pretty comfortable, even you say, 611 00:44:20,437 --> 00:44:22,457 well, being, you know, this part of the population. 612 00:44:22,697 --> 00:44:24,677 I'm just saying when you go to foreign countries, 613 00:44:25,037 --> 00:44:28,597 even just a small one-bedroom, two-bedroom house, 614 00:44:28,877 --> 00:44:32,017 you know, in a tough neighborhood, 615 00:44:32,017 --> 00:44:35,137 that a lot of people feel like, 616 00:44:35,237 --> 00:44:36,717 hey, we're doing fine. 617 00:44:36,937 --> 00:44:40,197 But if you wipe out the money. 618 00:44:41,017 --> 00:44:43,157 Okay, but this is an honest question. 619 00:44:43,357 --> 00:44:44,417 Do you think that voting, 620 00:44:45,017 --> 00:44:46,677 like for real voting at the ballot box, 621 00:44:47,197 --> 00:44:49,317 isn't anything more than a rounding error 622 00:44:49,317 --> 00:44:52,217 versus voting with your dollars by selling dollars? 623 00:44:52,557 --> 00:44:54,657 But what I'm saying is I'm not saying either or. 624 00:44:54,657 --> 00:44:55,917 I'm saying both and. 625 00:44:56,337 --> 00:44:58,117 Well, it's okay, fine. 626 00:44:58,177 --> 00:45:00,737 But it's like if I'm getting 99.9% 627 00:45:00,737 --> 00:45:03,337 of all the impact and benefit out of voting with the dollars, 628 00:45:03,517 --> 00:45:06,757 why go waste half of my time on this political process 629 00:45:06,757 --> 00:45:09,117 if I'm spending the same amount of time on both of them, 630 00:45:09,157 --> 00:45:11,797 but one of them is giving me two orders of magnitude less impact? 631 00:45:11,917 --> 00:45:12,377 Why bother? 632 00:45:12,717 --> 00:45:15,037 But you would vote for a Christian big corner in a heartbeat. 633 00:45:16,217 --> 00:45:17,057 It's fine. 634 00:45:17,057 --> 00:45:21,577 And I actually did go vote for the first time in a decade 635 00:45:21,577 --> 00:45:24,717 in this last nationwide election or whatever. 636 00:45:25,117 --> 00:45:26,337 But this is our point. 637 00:45:26,477 --> 00:45:27,557 This is what we're saying. 638 00:45:27,657 --> 00:45:29,657 We're not talking about necessarily at the national level. 639 00:45:29,657 --> 00:45:36,077 Like what I'm saying is like, again, like there, there are, there are tons of ways in which you can get involved like politically. 640 00:45:36,577 --> 00:45:37,737 Like, yeah. 641 00:45:37,797 --> 00:45:41,757 It's happening locally too, Jordan, with the exposure of what a lot of school boards and city council. 642 00:45:42,077 --> 00:45:42,437 Correct. 643 00:45:42,637 --> 00:45:53,837 Like that, that's a great example where it's like, Hey, these are, this is just a real practical way that these, a lot of the, the reality is a lot of these people in positions of power are cowards and they will fold like a cheap chair. 644 00:45:53,837 --> 00:45:58,737 If you just, if you literally went to a school board meeting and said something like you're putting pressure on them. 645 00:45:58,737 --> 00:46:00,877 And so in this, it doesn't cost you. 646 00:46:01,417 --> 00:46:04,377 I vote to defund those systems by homeschooling, right? 647 00:46:05,437 --> 00:46:06,857 Both and, Jim. 648 00:46:07,157 --> 00:46:07,877 Both and. 649 00:46:07,897 --> 00:46:11,537 Okay, but obviously there's like, you only have a certain amount of time, right? 650 00:46:11,537 --> 00:46:21,897 So it's like, if you're going to be leading a small group, or you're going to go to a session meeting as an elder, or you're going to go do like a shepherding call, or you're going to show up at the hospital or pray for somebody versus go to a school board meeting. 651 00:46:22,077 --> 00:46:23,577 I mean, you can't do both. 652 00:46:23,577 --> 00:46:28,437 But this is why I'm saying I'm not advocating necessarily for pastors or for other church officers. 653 00:46:29,057 --> 00:46:33,637 Jim, if you're bound and determined to get off the hook, the deacons don't have to go either, even though they're supposed to serve. 654 00:46:33,937 --> 00:46:35,257 But we won't. We'll let you on. 655 00:46:35,357 --> 00:46:36,957 Voting took like 30 minutes one day. 656 00:46:37,057 --> 00:46:44,237 I'm talking about just this idea that you're constantly showing up to rallies and Charlie Kirk, you know, Turning Point USA rallies. 657 00:46:45,017 --> 00:46:49,577 This is, I guess, what I'm saying is I'm not saying everybody has to be Charlie Kirk. 658 00:46:49,577 --> 00:46:54,497 okay but there needs to like but having a lot more maybe a lot like what would it be it'd be 659 00:46:54,497 --> 00:46:58,657 twice as many people if we had twice as many charlie kirks like it would be it'd be a better 660 00:46:58,657 --> 00:47:03,517 a better place because a lot of this is and you heard jd vance talk about this at charlie kirks 661 00:47:03,517 --> 00:47:10,757 memorial thing he's like i have talked more about my faith in the last week than in the rest of my 662 00:47:10,757 --> 00:47:16,917 political career and like a lot of these guys in politics they are like they are christians 663 00:47:16,917 --> 00:47:21,957 but they're terrified because like they're terrified to talk about it because they're 664 00:47:21,957 --> 00:47:26,497 the presumption is oh like there's so many people out there people are you know quiet about their 665 00:47:26,497 --> 00:47:32,557 christianity and so like i don't know i i just think like there's an opportunity here to do a 666 00:47:32,557 --> 00:47:38,537 lot of good and and basically i mean i think about like bunyan john bunyan he he basically his church 667 00:47:38,537 --> 00:47:42,777 pleaded with him to be their pastor and he's like i don't want to be your pastor and they're like no 668 00:47:42,777 --> 00:47:48,517 please be our pastor. And so we end up being their pastor. I think there's a lot of Christians 669 00:47:48,517 --> 00:47:53,077 who like, again, it's not the easiest thing. It's not going to be the most fun thing, 670 00:47:53,537 --> 00:47:57,297 but like whether it's local, whatever it is, just, and again, it doesn't have to be direct 671 00:47:57,297 --> 00:48:03,757 if it's just putting pressure in different places. I think that we have, again, authority that has 672 00:48:03,757 --> 00:48:09,717 been entrusted to us, that we have the opportunity to do good with, that goes beyond what I think 673 00:48:09,717 --> 00:48:13,937 Tim's point is, I'm not just talking about tweeting about it. I'm talking about, listen, 674 00:48:14,117 --> 00:48:19,737 there's many more ways that you can actually affect real change than just yelling at somebody 675 00:48:19,737 --> 00:48:25,857 on Twitter. I think my only point was just, if we could convince everybody to vote for 676 00:48:25,857 --> 00:48:31,197 such and such candidate or go to such and such school board meeting, we could convince everybody 677 00:48:31,197 --> 00:48:36,637 to do one thing. If the thing that we could convince them to do is sell dollars for Bitcoin, 678 00:48:36,637 --> 00:48:38,097 that would have the most impact. 679 00:48:38,457 --> 00:48:38,697 Yes. 680 00:48:38,897 --> 00:48:39,157 Okay. 681 00:48:39,497 --> 00:48:39,777 Yes. 682 00:48:39,937 --> 00:48:41,317 Everyone who's listening to this, 683 00:48:41,417 --> 00:48:42,957 probably all 350 people 684 00:48:42,957 --> 00:48:43,777 who will watch this, 685 00:48:43,897 --> 00:48:44,697 go buy Bitcoin 686 00:48:44,697 --> 00:48:45,817 if you're not already doing that. 687 00:48:46,117 --> 00:48:46,277 Okay. 688 00:48:46,297 --> 00:48:47,337 So yes, we agree. 689 00:48:47,677 --> 00:48:48,897 We should be buying Bitcoin. 690 00:48:49,297 --> 00:48:49,897 We agree. 691 00:48:51,177 --> 00:48:51,577 Okay. 692 00:48:52,357 --> 00:48:52,837 All right. 693 00:48:52,857 --> 00:48:53,397 How much time we got? 694 00:48:53,477 --> 00:48:53,797 We got, 695 00:48:53,917 --> 00:48:54,397 okay, 696 00:48:54,457 --> 00:48:55,717 we got like one minute here. 697 00:48:56,357 --> 00:48:56,577 Oh my God. 698 00:48:56,677 --> 00:48:57,657 We had Tim once in. 699 00:48:58,117 --> 00:48:58,837 I was going to say 700 00:48:58,837 --> 00:48:59,877 for our ending 701 00:48:59,877 --> 00:49:00,957 at this great little prayer 702 00:49:00,957 --> 00:49:01,977 that I posted in the chat 703 00:49:01,977 --> 00:49:04,377 from a Presbyterian family devotional 704 00:49:04,377 --> 00:49:05,357 from a hundred years ago, 705 00:49:05,617 --> 00:49:06,197 praying for the family. 706 00:49:06,637 --> 00:49:09,137 I just thought it was a cool little prayer. 707 00:49:09,597 --> 00:49:10,237 Oh, wait, where'd it go? 708 00:49:10,357 --> 00:49:10,877 I don't see it. 709 00:49:12,117 --> 00:49:13,137 Which shad did you put it in? 710 00:49:14,057 --> 00:49:14,857 The Twitter one. 711 00:49:15,237 --> 00:49:15,937 Oh, the Twitter one. 712 00:49:16,057 --> 00:49:17,277 I think it's the first one I did. 713 00:49:17,417 --> 00:49:18,177 Here, read it for us. 714 00:49:19,177 --> 00:49:20,037 Okay, is this it? 715 00:49:20,057 --> 00:49:20,897 Are we ending with this prayer? 716 00:49:21,157 --> 00:49:22,077 Yeah, we're ending with this prayer. 717 00:49:22,177 --> 00:49:22,337 Do it. 718 00:49:22,357 --> 00:49:23,617 Okay, we're going to pray this. 719 00:49:23,617 --> 00:49:25,497 This is a prayer, I think, originally written for families, 720 00:49:25,557 --> 00:49:27,497 but we're going to pray it for Bitcoiners 721 00:49:27,497 --> 00:49:30,277 and all of their endeavors in this world. 722 00:49:31,097 --> 00:49:33,457 God of our fathers, we seek thy holy help 723 00:49:33,457 --> 00:49:35,597 in our effort to create a home on earth 724 00:49:35,597 --> 00:49:37,417 which shall fit us for our home in heaven, 725 00:49:38,017 --> 00:49:40,897 enabled us to make it the abode of peace and love, 726 00:49:41,237 --> 00:49:43,257 of truth and justice, of righteousness and honor. 727 00:49:43,817 --> 00:49:46,337 Whether assembled about the family altar, the fireside, 728 00:49:46,377 --> 00:49:48,057 or the table spread with our daily bread, 729 00:49:48,677 --> 00:49:51,557 whether asleep beneath the sheltering roof by night or abroad 730 00:49:51,557 --> 00:49:52,537 and at work by day, 731 00:49:53,097 --> 00:49:55,077 may we feel that thou art round about us 732 00:49:55,077 --> 00:49:56,717 as the mountains are round about Jerusalem. 733 00:49:57,537 --> 00:49:59,437 May there here be pure joys 734 00:49:59,437 --> 00:50:01,617 which shall find expression in music and in laughter, 735 00:50:01,817 --> 00:50:03,697 and if tears must sometimes fill our eyes, 736 00:50:03,697 --> 00:50:05,417 may we learn to find the comfort of thy love. 737 00:50:05,597 --> 00:50:06,937 in sickness and in health, 738 00:50:07,037 --> 00:50:07,897 in joy and in sorrow, 739 00:50:08,017 --> 00:50:08,757 in life and in death. 740 00:50:08,837 --> 00:50:10,237 We crave and invoke thy blessing 741 00:50:10,237 --> 00:50:11,377 in the name of Jesus Christ. 742 00:50:11,837 --> 00:50:12,077 Amen. 743 00:50:13,457 --> 00:50:13,857 Amen. 744 00:50:14,557 --> 00:50:15,197 That's a good word. 745 00:50:16,177 --> 00:50:17,217 Appreciate you guys. 746 00:50:17,357 --> 00:50:19,037 Jim, Tim, Ben, 747 00:50:19,417 --> 00:50:20,097 grateful for you. 748 00:50:20,157 --> 00:50:20,817 Grateful for you guys 749 00:50:20,817 --> 00:50:21,557 who are listening to this. 750 00:50:21,677 --> 00:50:22,997 If you have liked what you've heard 751 00:50:22,997 --> 00:50:23,997 or if you haven't liked, 752 00:50:24,077 --> 00:50:24,717 tell us about it. 753 00:50:25,017 --> 00:50:25,837 Leave a review. 754 00:50:26,077 --> 00:50:27,137 Leave a comment on YouTube. 755 00:50:27,617 --> 00:50:28,597 Leave a comment on Twitter. 756 00:50:29,597 --> 00:50:30,077 Cuss us out. 757 00:50:30,177 --> 00:50:30,817 Give us, you know, 758 00:50:30,937 --> 00:50:32,097 just destroy us. 759 00:50:32,217 --> 00:50:32,857 It'll be great. 760 00:50:33,737 --> 00:50:35,077 Any attention is good attention. 761 00:50:35,597 --> 00:50:37,937 We will be back on Tuesday with another episode. 762 00:50:38,337 --> 00:50:41,937 We are going to be recording some really cool episodes in the near future here. 763 00:50:42,017 --> 00:50:48,217 It looks like we're going to hopefully get an interview with Rusty Reno, who's the editor of First Things magazine. 764 00:50:48,777 --> 00:50:50,057 We're going to talk to him about his book. 765 00:50:50,857 --> 00:50:51,657 What is it called? 766 00:50:51,737 --> 00:50:53,017 The Return of the Strong Gods. 767 00:50:53,557 --> 00:50:58,077 We've got hopefully an interview with Megan Basham coming up as well. 768 00:50:58,757 --> 00:51:00,757 Some other ones that are going to be real fun. 769 00:51:00,757 --> 00:51:02,577 So we'll keep you posted. 770 00:51:03,157 --> 00:51:05,197 And again, Bitcoin, where do we at right now? 771 00:51:05,197 --> 00:51:08,937 121,000. We didn't even talk about it being all-time high the other day. 772 00:51:09,697 --> 00:51:13,297 This is some wild days. All-time high gold. I'm scaring people 773 00:51:13,297 --> 00:51:17,477 because our Blocktron's don't agree. People are going to 774 00:51:17,477 --> 00:51:21,577 zoom in on mine and be like, what universe do you live in? Jim is in the future 775 00:51:21,577 --> 00:51:24,837 where Bitcoin is at 918,000. It's great. 776 00:51:25,617 --> 00:51:29,217 But anyhow, we appreciate you guys and we will see you on the next episode of the 777 00:51:29,217 --> 00:51:30,717 Thank God for Bitcoin podcast. 778 00:51:35,197 --> 00:51:43,337 Thank you.