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And we are live. Welcome to episode 33 of To the Unknown Pod, a subset of the Thank God for

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Bitcoin podcast. My name is Jordan Bush. I am the executive director of TGFB Media, which exists to

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help Christians understand and use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere.

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Today, I am finally joined by all of the mountain boys, no, the Iowan boys who I will allow to

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introduce themselves right now. Hey, I'm Oshawa Hawthorne, father of eight, live in the great

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war zone of Portland, Oregon, or so they say. And I lead a ministry called Brains Labs,

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and we like helping ministries understand Bitcoin. I'm Ryan Finley, father of six,

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former resident of portland i i departed about 10 years ago before it turned into a war zone

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literally though uh with no regrets um but yeah it's good to be here

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uh matt purvis pastor in hawaii and um ryan also escaped hawaii before the lava hit so he's he's

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he's good at doing that stuff.

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He likes running away.

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He's just kind of,

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he goes to greener pastures.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And,

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uh,

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yeah,

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I run a businesses and I've,

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I recently updated my Twitter profile to business as mission and activism and

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politics.

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You're not supposed to do that,

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Ryan,

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you're a pastor.

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Okay.

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Uh,

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we're moving on today.

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Today.

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The title is,

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is gold the new Bitcoin?

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This is for those of you who aren't aware.

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gold is mooning right now gold is over four thousand dollars an ounce or at least it was

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as of yesterday uh four thousand dollars an ounce there was i believe a quick story in 2000

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i believe 2020 somewhere around there my wife pleaded with me to buy an ounce of gold we had

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you know we've we had bought bitcoin the year before that and the vast majority of our net worth

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was in bitcoin she basically begged me to get at least an ounce to quote unquote diversify

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and uh it's so because i love my wife i was like okay i'll buy one so we spent sixteen hundred

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dollars on an ounce of gold that i held for me about what was bitcoin at then bitcoin okay so

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bitcoin was at about 40 000 the problem was bitcoin went all the way down to 16 000 and so i was

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begging with my wife and around that time i was like oh please let me sell this we can buy it back

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we can buy we can buy the gold back you know and so then gold you know bitcoin if we would have

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bought it we would have gotten around a tenth of a coin ended up holding onto it sold it last year

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and uh so now we we don't own any more gold but gold is is straight mooning it's going crazy

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people's gold regs peter schiff was right that's right all the gold bugs are triumphant uh and

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again we are happy for the gold people we just want you to know that listen we we think gold

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is great so what we want to do is we want to have talk about uh both bitcoin and gold which are both

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at all-time highs we want to talk about why that is uh we want to talk about uh you know what we

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can learn from that about the broader market sentiment and broader economic sentiment across

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the board, both in the States and around the world. So we're going to lead off by taking a look

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at a tweet from Vijay Voyapati. Let's see here. It is this one. Here we go. Vijay.

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Gold hit $4,000, which is 0.3 Bitcoin thanks to the Opportunity Cost app. 0.03 Bitcoin today.

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hey, this is by far the most important macro story right now.

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Eventually, Bitcoin will steal gold's luster

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and position as preeminent non-sovereign sort of value.

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But today, poor went out for the gold bugs.

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Impressive.

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So again, let's just kind of talk about,

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I'll let Ash kind of introduce this to us.

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Why is gold mooning?

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What does this mean for the broader market sentiment?

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it well well historically gold represents a um like protection against an unstable economy it's

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uh it's this reserve asset it's a flight to safety supposedly and i think what's most interesting now

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is we're in a place where stocks are at an all-time high.

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And so you're not having this big market crash

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where people are running away from stocks.

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You also have this issue with interest rates are high.

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You have all these nation states that started buying gold

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and moving away from treasuries.

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And so it feels different.

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And it feels like, hey, there's clearly shocks in the system because you're getting mixed messages.

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And it's almost like something else is broken.

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Like it's a denominator issue.

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It's what are we measuring all of this growth in?

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Yes, whoa, look, stock market's all-time high.

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But the dollar's down 10% against other currencies just this year.

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And so maybe the issue is with the dollar, not with a ragingly wonderful economy.

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All right, Ash, unpack this for me.

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We could have gotten that tweet up, but you're referencing there was a tweet about the fact the dollar is down 10% on the year against other national currencies.

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Can you kind of unpack what does that mean?

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For people who, I'm sure we have people who are just listening to this who don't understand any of these dynamics.

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So kind of unpack some of that.

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Yeah. So, again, I'm not a macro expert, but the most common number that we think about as Americans is CPI and inflation.

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And yes, it's kind of slowly going up, but for the most part, it still seems to be manageable.

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But this concept that the dollar is weakening in the global economy, that is a warning signal.

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Like there's some flashing, like little dash lights going on that says, hey, not everything is going well.

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Even though you might not feel it in a day-to-day, right?

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Zoom out a little bit.

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Or like for us, I'm going to be traveling to Switzerland next week with my wife for an anniversary trip.

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And wow, are things expensive if you're using the dollar to buy things in Switzerland.

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yeah define cpi for someone who doesn't know yeah that's the consumer price index those are the

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the official numbers that we're given about what what's the increase in the cost of a basket of

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goods uh for your average american consumer and it's usually under uh represented by about half

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So when they say, you know, see if inflation's at 4%, we're usually at least seeing 8%.

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Ryan, is that in comparison to the number of dollars in the system?

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Is that how you're comparing it?

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Yeah, it typically goes.

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I think we've increased the money supply.

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It's somewhere about, it's around 7% to 8% a year on average.

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and that just so happens to be

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how much like a lot of things

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that are hard to print go up.

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You know, so like for example,

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ground beef is a, you know,

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we've talked about that before,

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but it's a better representative of inflation.

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So if you see ground beef going up a lot,

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this year it's going up twice as much

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and that's not all because of debasement.

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It's also, we're getting wild fluctuations

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in the beef market.

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So instead of it going up six or 8%,

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I think we're already up 12%.

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So everyone's going to notice the price of meat

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is going to be a lot higher this year and going forward.

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I don't want to start in the weeds.

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I just want to understand from,

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are we saying that the ideal comparison

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of like truth versus CPI,

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CPI being the government's provided increase,

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do you guys think that cpi being this sort of semi-truth sort of lie compared to the number

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of dollars inflated is the right way to do it or is that too simplistic is the number of dollars

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not exactly what we're doing printed yeah the increase in the money supply seems to be more

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accurate so it's closer to okay yeah it's closer to seven or eight percent and and there are

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obviously, like if there's a famine, like then the money supply will also be affected. Like it's not

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just like it's just the money supply. There are other dynamics that can factor in. But for most

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things, the most impactful indicator is the money supply. This is where, I mean, like this is for

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most things, like the money supply increase will be the primary accounting for those returns.

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So this actually, what this ought to do is make you, it ought to change how you look at and how you think about investment returns.

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Because you have to, like, you need to factor in when you see a return on something, you need to factor in, okay, wait a second.

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If I know that most of this is just the monetary supply, this would happen even regardless of what the thing itself is doing, then it really does change the way that you think about them.

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The historical stock return.

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Like, over the last 20 or 30 years, like, if you had all your money in stocks, you were basically just keeping up with inflation.

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So you can close your eyes and throw darts at a wall, and, you know, and you were just going to keep up with inflation.

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Well, I've got a practical example.

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But gold actually outdid the stock market.

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So, I mean, before, I know I brought us into these weeds.

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I just wanted to define our terms, but we can get back to the macro.

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But example in my life, I'm trying to figure out what my commercial building that I'm managing should be rented for if I chose to go that route. And it was like six, seven thousand dollars a month. And I'm like, whoa, that's a lot. And then I was like, well, what did I used to pay on my mortgage? Look back, it was like thirty four hundred a month.

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and I thought, and I had AI calculate for me inflation from 2013 till now based on CPI

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and based on money supply. And it was drastically different. And I was like, nope, 7,000 bucks a

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month is what I was paying in 2013 when I paid $3,400 a month, you know, especially if you count

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it as, so that's just a real practical example of like, it's real guys. It's real, you know,

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cause I remember it and that number sounds high to me, but it isn't high. It's the same as what I

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was paying. And this is really, this is really what, I mean, the, the place that I think about

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this the most is when it comes to like gas prices with your grandparents. It's like, right. When

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our, when our grandparents, we used to ask your grandparents, Oh, you know, I'm showing my age.

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I'll be 38, uh, very soon, uh, within the next week here, I'll be celebrating my birthday. Uh,

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but we used to go to my granddad and we used to ask him, you know, what was, uh, what was gas

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prices when you were young? And he would tell us it was a nickel, nickel per gallon. And so the

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question is has gas gotten better or worse since then and the reality is the gas has gotten worse

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like we have ethanol in our gas they just had plain gas and so jayburn yeah he's like why why

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is it why but so then why is it three dollars a gallon or whatever it is versus a nickel you know

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and a lot of this it just has to do with debasement it has to do with the currency can purchase so much

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less now and and insane politics yeah like oregon california washington yep and there's people with

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their hands out taking oh yeah they're all the governments are all going broke and so they're

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just they have a fleet of people trying to figure out how to squeeze more money out of their tax

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base yes and so that's all of these cases so basically historically and right now gold is

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kind of this thing that basically it's like a release valve. It's basically a cry for help

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where people are, it just basically demonstrates that people don't have confidence

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in the stock market or in government bonds or in other things. They don't have confidence in

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those things. And so they're going to look for something that doesn't depend on government,

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that doesn't have a counterparty. And so again, with gold, you can custody it yourself. You don't

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need to trust anybody. I would imagine you have people who are taking their, if they have gold

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and safety deposit boxes or other kinds of stuff like that, they're taking them out and they want

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to hold it because they want to know that they have it. And so again, this is where Bitcoin comes

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in too. And this is why Bitcoin is called digital gold, because you can take the same sort of

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custody with Bitcoin in a way that you don't need to rely on third parties to access it.

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So this is going on.

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We have another tweet here.

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This is from...

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Can I say one?

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I want to say one more thing.

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Do it, do it, do it.

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Yeah, the gold bugs were the original.

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Like they saw that gold represented proof of work

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long before Bitcoin was around.

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So I've always had a lot of respect for gold bugs.

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I know a bunch of them.

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And over these last several years,

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like a lot of the macro people

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like Luke Grohman and Lynn Alden,

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they have big gold portfolios.

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Lawrence Lippard.

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And the reason is they understand.

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Gold's going to go up for the same reason that Bitcoin is.

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Because you already have governments.

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They already believe in it.

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They understand why it's valuable.

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So anyways, it's just.

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I think you can easily make the case

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that despising gold is both a first and fifth commandment violation.

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Like it is, it's despising the world that God made.

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And it's also despising the wisdom of our fathers.

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And that's, again, I posted a tweet of the Norman Rockwell guy

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who's standing up at the town meeting with his hand in the air or whatever,

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or standing up and just basically taking a stand.

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And it says, I'm happy for the gold bugs.

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Because again, the reasons why they've been mocked and derided

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for decades are ridiculous reasons.

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They're telling the truth.

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They've done shining light on the lies

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that the system is rooted in.

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So to see them justified is a good thing.

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It's something that we're going to continue

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to get to see more of.

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100%.

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It's right.

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And they deserve it.

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They deserve the win.

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Like Ron Paul, I'm super happy for Ron Paul.

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He's a big gold guy.

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and yeah it's it's uh it's criminal because they were the ones they were the ones that were calling

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out the lies and the debasement and the wickedness that are the fiat system represents um and everyone

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and basically they were made fun of because as they were calling it out they were saying we we

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need to we need to go back to gold and so then they were mocked and you know yes slandered and

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And again they were never wrong They were telling the truth They were absolutely right What they didn didn take into account necessarily was the willingness of the and the extent to which these governments

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and stuff were willing to go to the ridiculous ends or lengths that they were willing to go to

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in order to maintain their Ponzi scheme. Like that's, that's really what we're seeing. So it's

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not that they were right or they were wrong. And now they're right. They've been right the whole

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time. They've been right the whole time. And now they just, the system has gotten to a point where

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it's beyond, you know, there's nothing that they can do to, you know, to, to try to get

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themselves out of this.

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So we're going to show this tweet from Tyler Durden.

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For those of you guys who don't know, Tyler Durden is the character from, what's that movie?

227
00:16:18,548 --> 00:16:19,068
Fight Club.

228
00:16:19,248 --> 00:16:19,928
Fight Club.

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And then he's also a Twitter, Twitter person.

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So I'm going to use the handle here.

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So two years ago, I said, I believe Bitcoin would match a gold market cap this cycle.

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I was very wrong in this idea.

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So this is since the beginning of the year.

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gold or whether this is the chart doesn't show this but gold is over above four thousand dollars

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now it's since the beginning of the year gold has outperformed uh most things including bitcoin

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uh bitcoin if we go back to if we go back 12 months bitcoin is still outperforming it but

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since january 1 peter schiff uh take taking taking the w w's in the chat he's he's thrilled

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um we'll we'll look at this one too so this is from site bringer this is this uh this account

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called The Profit. It's a really great account. Highly recommend. Go follow it. But The Profit

240
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says this. We're going to read this whole thing. It's a little bit long, but it's worth it.

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Here we go. All right. So what you're seeing, we're going to scroll down here. What you're

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really seeing here with gold and Bitcoin being at all-time highs is the first stage of a global

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unit of account fracture. In nominal US dollar terms, okay, so the price that things have,

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that homes have, whatever that they have right now, everything looks like it's booming. Stocks

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up triple digits, homes up double digits, quote unquote wealth everywhere. That's the performance

246
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everyone sees. In gold terms, however, the illusion cracks. Stocks and homes are flat to negative.

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Real wealth is stagnating. So if you're to denominate a house in terms of the ounces of

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gold it takes to buy it, that's what this is referencing, or stocks and the amount of ounces

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of gold that it takes to buy them relative to other points. In Bitcoin terms, the veil is gone.

250
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Catastrophic real losses in every traditional asset over the last two years. This is the same

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signature that marked every pre-hyperinflationary or currency regime shift in history. When people

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cling to the debasing unit, in this case, the dollar or the other, whatever the other national

253
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fiat currency is around the world, they feel rich, but measured in the next credible collateral,

254
00:18:24,288 --> 00:18:29,568
their system is already collapsing. And the quote-unquote risk asset meme about Bitcoin,

255
00:18:30,008 --> 00:18:35,988
that's just a coping frame. As long as Wall Street treats Bitcoin as a tech stock with volatility,

256
00:18:35,988 --> 00:18:40,208
they can keep it in the risk bucket. But functionally, it's already behaving like a

257
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parallel reserve ledger. It's the only denominator that makes the post-2020 global economy look like

258
00:18:46,188 --> 00:18:52,668
Argentina, which means it's not a good thing. It demonstrates how everything is doing as badly as

259
00:18:52,668 --> 00:18:58,348
Argentina was. This is why the system feels, quote unquote, off. Why wages don't match prices,

260
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why debt is ballooning, why policy feels reactive. We're in a regime where the unit of account is

261
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decaying faster than the public narrative can absorb. The Fed, the government, the media,

262
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all still speaking USD, all still benchmarking to a melting ice cube. The chart you're looking at

263
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is the unofficial scoreboard in a silent currency war. So when I strip all the polite commentary

264
00:19:19,468 --> 00:19:25,848
away. The honest take is, one, the U.S. is running the final phase of a classic imperial carry trade.

265
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Draw in global capital, so draw in currency from around the world. Inflate domestic asset prices

266
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in nominal terms. Export the currency risk abroad. Okay, that's what's going on with the dollar.

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Gold shows stagnation. So when denominated in gold terms, things don't look anywhere near as

268
00:19:44,308 --> 00:19:51,548
rosy. They're kind of stagnant, staying stable, but not increasing. And then Bitcoin shows collapse.

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In Bitcoin terms, everything is just collapsing. The price of a home denominated in a Bitcoin now

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relative to even just four years ago, it takes way less Bitcoin to buy a house now. If Bitcoin

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continues to monetize, that chart is a pre-revaluation ledger of the old world being

272
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marked down. This isn't a normal market cycle. It's the unit of account transition phase. Almost

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no one is positioned for it because they're still measuring their quote unquote returns with the

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wrong yardstick. That's the scar of layer, not just quote unquote debasement trade,

275
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but a living record of a dying denominator. And so he's showing this chart from Luke Groman,

276
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who we'd love to have on the program at some point. Luke, come on, we love you.

277
00:20:33,988 --> 00:20:39,888
And so Luke is demonstrating. So here's all these charts laid over one another. So we have the S&P

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500, NASDAQ, Standard & Poor's index.

279
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So you have the stock market.

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You have, let's see, what else do you have?

281
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Let's see, Bitcoin.

282
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There we go.

283
00:20:51,488 --> 00:20:52,088
You've got gold.

284
00:20:52,208 --> 00:20:54,228
You've got a bunch of other gold things.

285
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And so you can see right here what's going on.

286
00:20:57,508 --> 00:20:59,768
Everything is getting crushed or is flat.

287
00:21:00,148 --> 00:21:01,568
Bitcoin's breaking out.

288
00:21:02,068 --> 00:21:02,988
What's the blue one?

289
00:21:03,828 --> 00:21:04,468
Is this the S&P?

290
00:21:05,828 --> 00:21:06,568
Hey, Jordan.

291
00:21:06,568 --> 00:21:10,508
I put two links in our studio chat

292
00:21:10,508 --> 00:21:14,008
comparing S&P to gold and S&P to Bitcoin.

293
00:21:14,448 --> 00:21:18,448
Could you pull up that first link in the chat

294
00:21:18,448 --> 00:21:20,248
on the macrotrends.net?

295
00:21:20,688 --> 00:21:21,788
Give me one second here.

296
00:21:22,568 --> 00:21:25,728
So that'll let us see this image a little clearer.

297
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Cool, there we go.

298
00:21:29,308 --> 00:21:29,568
And you can...

299
00:21:30,108 --> 00:21:33,008
But yeah, Ash, keep describing what's in that image.

300
00:21:33,008 --> 00:21:36,248
You can choose your time horizon.

301
00:21:36,688 --> 00:21:43,888
So I pulled up the 10-year time horizon of gold to the S&P.

302
00:21:45,848 --> 00:21:53,008
And what you see is this total breakout.

303
00:21:54,168 --> 00:21:55,308
Actually, do the 20-year.

304
00:21:55,388 --> 00:21:56,708
The 20-year is the best one.

305
00:21:58,228 --> 00:22:01,048
Is this gold price for a stock market or a big S&P?

306
00:22:01,048 --> 00:22:01,408
Yeah.

307
00:22:01,408 --> 00:22:01,668
Okay.

308
00:22:02,408 --> 00:22:02,588
Yeah.

309
00:22:02,588 --> 00:22:03,768
versus stock market.

310
00:22:06,208 --> 00:22:08,708
And then click on the 20-year

311
00:22:08,708 --> 00:22:10,908
because you're going to see the 08

312
00:22:10,908 --> 00:22:12,308
and what happened.

313
00:22:13,168 --> 00:22:14,628
So they're going to start at zero.

314
00:22:14,888 --> 00:22:15,688
All right, here we go.

315
00:22:15,768 --> 00:22:16,268
I'm going to see this.

316
00:22:17,068 --> 00:22:19,928
Yeah, now click on 20 years.

317
00:22:21,128 --> 00:22:21,948
There you go.

318
00:22:22,768 --> 00:22:25,128
So it's starting at the beginning

319
00:22:25,128 --> 00:22:26,808
at 06 or something.

320
00:22:27,148 --> 00:22:27,368
Yep.

321
00:22:27,828 --> 00:22:28,728
The same.

322
00:22:29,288 --> 00:22:30,968
And then you see the 08 crash.

323
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You see the stock market go down.

324
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Gold rips up, and then gold significantly underperforms as you have growth.

325
00:22:40,028 --> 00:22:41,888
From basically 2011.

326
00:22:42,768 --> 00:22:44,788
Yeah, so you have the economy recovering.

327
00:22:45,168 --> 00:22:53,528
You have all the money being pumped into real estate and global dynamics.

328
00:22:53,688 --> 00:22:57,328
You have COVID, or again, stock market underperforms.

329
00:22:57,328 --> 00:22:59,468
A little kiss in 2018 here.

330
00:23:00,308 --> 00:23:02,208
What happened in 2018 that caused this?

331
00:23:02,588 --> 00:23:10,428
that's when that's when the economy started uh sputtering yep that's when the cracks started

332
00:23:10,428 --> 00:23:18,568
showing leading up to 2020 yeah it was a lot of that was they needed to find an excuse to print

333
00:23:18,568 --> 00:23:24,168
money because there was things were breaking yeah if you get if you go back and that's when gold just

334
00:23:24,168 --> 00:23:30,288
took off yep yeah so yeah so you look at here's here's december 2019 right when covid starting

335
00:23:30,288 --> 00:23:32,128
down to March 2020.

336
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This is the bottom of the stock market.

337
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You know, the bloody, whatever it was,

338
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Thursday or Wednesday.

339
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And then you see right after this,

340
00:23:39,988 --> 00:23:40,888
as this is all going on,

341
00:23:41,008 --> 00:23:42,588
gold is just mooning.

342
00:23:43,288 --> 00:23:45,488
Goes over there, starts to settle a little bit.

343
00:23:45,708 --> 00:23:47,148
The stock market nominally recovers

344
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and then boom, we just,

345
00:23:48,608 --> 00:23:49,908
gold going parabolic,

346
00:23:51,168 --> 00:23:51,868
going crazy.

347
00:23:51,988 --> 00:23:54,668
Matt, you are making noise.

348
00:23:55,608 --> 00:23:56,468
Let's see here.

349
00:23:57,308 --> 00:23:58,008
Or is it Ryan?

350
00:23:58,368 --> 00:23:59,568
It's Ryan for some reason.

351
00:23:59,708 --> 00:24:00,168
I don't know how that happened.

352
00:24:00,288 --> 00:24:02,648
But so we have that going on.

353
00:24:04,628 --> 00:24:06,468
Do we want to look at another chart?

354
00:24:06,708 --> 00:24:06,828
Yeah.

355
00:24:07,028 --> 00:24:12,988
So, I mean, what you see, particularly this huge run-up where all is not well

356
00:24:12,988 --> 00:24:16,468
and gold is so vastly outperforming.

357
00:24:17,288 --> 00:24:21,468
But yes, click the second link and see stock market price in Bitcoin

358
00:24:21,468 --> 00:24:25,148
over the same time period.

359
00:24:26,208 --> 00:24:27,728
And yeah, zoom in a bit.

360
00:24:27,728 --> 00:24:30,068
this is going back to August 11,

361
00:24:30,848 --> 00:24:33,348
that red line is the stock market.

362
00:24:34,248 --> 00:24:37,968
It looks flat in Bitcoin terms.

363
00:24:39,368 --> 00:24:39,588
Yes.

364
00:24:39,788 --> 00:24:41,068
So describe for us, what does that mean?

365
00:24:41,128 --> 00:24:42,828
If somebody's looking at this, what does this mean?

366
00:24:43,688 --> 00:24:47,288
Well, it means that the gains on Bitcoin were so significant

367
00:24:47,288 --> 00:24:53,088
that your stock market is meaningless almost.

368
00:24:53,088 --> 00:24:58,448
and maybe you could find a different time horizon

369
00:24:58,448 --> 00:25:00,688
and the chart would look a little different.

370
00:25:03,248 --> 00:25:06,748
But if this is all about monetary debasement

371
00:25:06,748 --> 00:25:09,108
and if you change your denominator,

372
00:25:09,288 --> 00:25:10,828
either Bitcoin or gold,

373
00:25:12,188 --> 00:25:14,388
then yeah, things are broken.

374
00:25:15,308 --> 00:25:18,808
And I think the practical takeaway for Christians and churches

375
00:25:18,808 --> 00:25:27,868
is you can't just assume that you can exist within the current system

376
00:25:27,868 --> 00:25:33,848
and continue staying ahead like the previous generation.

377
00:25:33,988 --> 00:25:38,188
I think Ryan's story that he shared from his church was really relevant here,

378
00:25:38,328 --> 00:25:41,528
where if you have a long-term expense or you have to save for something,

379
00:25:42,128 --> 00:25:44,928
you will get absolutely killed if you're not saving

380
00:25:44,928 --> 00:25:49,508
in something that is protecting you from debasement.

381
00:25:50,768 --> 00:25:53,568
Yeah, Ryan, you're paused.

382
00:25:54,108 --> 00:25:55,708
Yeah, share that story for us, Ryan,

383
00:25:55,748 --> 00:25:57,208
because you told it before we hopped on

384
00:25:57,208 --> 00:25:59,208
and I think it'll resonate with people.

385
00:25:59,748 --> 00:26:02,028
Yeah, I mean, I won't go into all those specifics,

386
00:26:02,028 --> 00:26:06,368
but any, I mean, our church was beginning

387
00:26:06,368 --> 00:26:10,268
to think about building a new building back in 2020.

388
00:26:11,268 --> 00:26:14,768
And so we started fundraising for it

389
00:26:14,768 --> 00:26:21,448
And the price, I mean, it hasn't entirely doubled, but it's almost doubled.

390
00:26:21,568 --> 00:26:26,988
And when you're in the millions of dollars, that is a catastrophic event.

391
00:26:27,408 --> 00:26:38,888
Because when you're raising money, even if you raise millions, but then the price doubles just in such a short period of time.

392
00:26:38,888 --> 00:26:41,088
Because there's an enormous amount of debasement.

393
00:26:41,088 --> 00:26:54,508
So all the money that was raised, unless it's stored in Bitcoin, it goes up by 4% a year if it's in conservative savings, which usually that's typically what people do in those situations.

394
00:26:55,988 --> 00:27:03,648
But you're getting destroyed on the cost of goods and labor and just inflation just wrecked it.

395
00:27:03,648 --> 00:27:10,368
So, yeah, it's really sad and discouraging.

396
00:27:10,368 --> 00:27:26,788
And my advice to any other church or, I mean, really anyone, if you have a big, a very large expense, like you need to put in the work and understand what's going on with our financial system and prepare accordingly.

397
00:27:27,108 --> 00:27:28,828
I would say put it in Bitcoin.

398
00:27:28,828 --> 00:27:32,388
If you can't get the conviction on that, then tried and true.

399
00:27:32,528 --> 00:27:37,588
I mean, even gold is going to protect you more as it's demonstrating right now.

400
00:27:37,588 --> 00:27:39,508
and for the same reasons.

401
00:27:40,728 --> 00:27:42,888
But you can't leave it in dollars

402
00:27:42,888 --> 00:27:45,028
and you can't leave it in a low interest savings account

403
00:27:45,028 --> 00:27:46,348
because you're literally going backwards.

404
00:27:46,348 --> 00:27:48,508
Like you're putting it into a boat

405
00:27:48,508 --> 00:27:49,928
with too many holes in it.

406
00:27:50,408 --> 00:27:53,828
And you're probably losing on a building project.

407
00:27:53,828 --> 00:27:55,228
If you're saving the cash,

408
00:27:55,348 --> 00:27:59,248
you're losing at least 4-5% a year.

409
00:28:00,668 --> 00:28:01,848
So, I mean, which is-

410
00:28:01,848 --> 00:28:03,208
This is where, again,

411
00:28:03,328 --> 00:28:06,568
the temptation is to think about Bitcoin

412
00:28:06,568 --> 00:28:08,788
as a way to try to get rich quickly, right?

413
00:28:08,808 --> 00:28:10,408
This is the way it's primarily talked about.

414
00:28:10,828 --> 00:28:12,228
This is the way, the reason why,

415
00:28:12,368 --> 00:28:12,868
you know, the reason,

416
00:28:12,988 --> 00:28:14,648
or the way that it's talked about on,

417
00:28:15,108 --> 00:28:16,028
you know, cable news

418
00:28:16,028 --> 00:28:17,768
and some of these finance channels or whatever.

419
00:28:18,108 --> 00:28:19,228
It's like the stock market,

420
00:28:19,368 --> 00:28:20,308
it's this game and,

421
00:28:20,468 --> 00:28:22,388
oh, look how good Bitcoin's doing.

422
00:28:22,968 --> 00:28:25,048
But what people just are not,

423
00:28:25,728 --> 00:28:27,008
people are thinking about it,

424
00:28:27,068 --> 00:28:28,668
aren't thinking about it in the way that they ought to,

425
00:28:28,788 --> 00:28:32,008
which is, no, you are losing purchasing power

426
00:28:32,008 --> 00:28:34,028
regardless of whether Bitcoin exists or not.

427
00:28:34,348 --> 00:28:35,508
Like you have a problem,

428
00:28:35,508 --> 00:28:38,748
whether or not you see Bitcoin as part of your solution.

429
00:28:39,368 --> 00:28:41,608
And so that problem is something you have to reconcile.

430
00:28:41,928 --> 00:28:44,388
You have to reckon with it somehow.

431
00:28:45,128 --> 00:28:48,368
And if you don't, it's not just like things are going to be okay for you.

432
00:28:48,408 --> 00:28:51,008
They're not going to be okay, economically speaking.

433
00:28:51,308 --> 00:28:53,668
And so I just look at this.

434
00:28:53,788 --> 00:28:56,028
I'm somebody who I've never owned a home.

435
00:28:56,568 --> 00:28:58,988
We were missionaries for, you know, we raised support,

436
00:28:59,088 --> 00:29:01,248
between we were raising support and actually on the field, it was 10 years.

437
00:29:01,868 --> 00:29:03,448
And so we didn't buy a house.

438
00:29:03,448 --> 00:29:10,208
We came back to the States in 2021 and we're not able to buy a house just because of the nature of things.

439
00:29:11,108 --> 00:29:14,088
And so we did have Bitcoin and do have Bitcoin.

440
00:29:14,408 --> 00:29:19,828
And basically, owning Bitcoin is the only path to homeownership that I have.

441
00:29:19,988 --> 00:29:29,968
And again, if Bitcoin continues to do what it's been doing, then Bitcoin will be part of what enables me to get a house.

442
00:29:29,968 --> 00:29:50,828
But other people, you have to have something that's outpacing inflation. It's the only way. The longer you wait to buy a house or to buy one of these big purchases, the more if you don't have something that's gaining in value faster than the currency is losing value, you're going to be perpetually behind. You're just going to get farther and farther behind.

443
00:29:51,828 --> 00:29:54,008
This is why we do this podcast.

444
00:29:54,188 --> 00:29:55,228
This is why we talk about this.

445
00:29:55,508 --> 00:29:56,688
This is a big deal.

446
00:29:57,448 --> 00:29:59,008
And it's no small problem.

447
00:29:59,068 --> 00:30:04,308
This is an enormous problem for individuals, for families, for ministries, for businesses,

448
00:30:04,508 --> 00:30:05,148
whatever it is.

449
00:30:05,188 --> 00:30:06,668
This is a universal problem.

450
00:30:07,408 --> 00:30:13,508
When you have a broken denominator, the thing that you're using for basically every single

451
00:30:13,508 --> 00:30:17,328
transaction within a nation and all these other nation, whatever levels you want to

452
00:30:17,328 --> 00:30:24,168
look at. If that thing is broken, then it's just going to keep getting more and more dire over time.

453
00:30:24,748 --> 00:30:27,748
Yeah. I've heard a lot of... Oh, yeah. Go ahead.

454
00:30:28,188 --> 00:30:33,928
It's all right. I was going to say that I think in this group, I'm the biggest neophyte in terms

455
00:30:33,928 --> 00:30:40,608
of the investing world. I think I understand Bitcoin a bit and I put my so-called savings

456
00:30:40,608 --> 00:30:50,028
into real estate. So I'm different than some in this group. But real estate has sort of been the

457
00:30:50,028 --> 00:30:56,368
chosen golden child for the government. The 1031 exchange, in my view, there's nothing even remotely

458
00:30:56,368 --> 00:31:00,568
similar to that in the tax code. And it's the idea that here's your golden child if you're wealthy

459
00:31:00,568 --> 00:31:04,608
and you want to have an asset that at least keeps up with inflation so you can keep working.

460
00:31:05,288 --> 00:31:10,108
Real estate has been the golden child chosen by the tax code, chosen by the government.

461
00:31:10,608 --> 00:31:17,028
I don't think it's necessarily foolish, though we may be seeing a huge crash coming, especially compared to Bitcoin.

462
00:31:17,028 --> 00:31:32,436
And I think that to me bringing it to a human level when you see those charts a lot of this has to do with trust issues So if I can put a little pointer between the church thing you mentioned Ryan and the government it like when you lose trust

463
00:31:33,156 --> 00:31:34,056
people start going,

464
00:31:34,176 --> 00:31:36,636
okay, I'm not going to invest in the system anymore.

465
00:31:37,596 --> 00:31:41,436
If you gave a big chunk of your money to a church,

466
00:31:42,276 --> 00:31:45,176
and I'm sure there's millions of details on your church,

467
00:31:45,236 --> 00:31:46,536
so it's not even bashing your church,

468
00:31:46,676 --> 00:31:49,536
but if you give a bunch of money to a church

469
00:31:49,536 --> 00:31:51,336
and they say it's going to be a million dollars

470
00:31:51,336 --> 00:31:55,696
and it's actually gonna be two, you lose a little bit of trust unless there's some really,

471
00:31:55,856 --> 00:32:03,356
really good explanations. And it's not just a Simpsons monorail situation. So the same thing

472
00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:09,876
goes for the government. And I'm 100% in this boat. I look at my business that I ran for a

473
00:32:09,876 --> 00:32:15,156
decade, which was a cafe restaurant. And I suffered through the pandemic and many, many businesses

474
00:32:15,156 --> 00:32:20,296
shut down. And a lot of old timers just said, I'm out, even with really good businesses.

475
00:32:20,296 --> 00:32:39,636
And I went through that and I did not see the government be too encouraging. I saw them do a lot of crazy fixes where they just threw money out there, which went to massive amounts of fraud. A lot of that fraud went overseas, even with like PPP money and EIDL money, and I could list them off.

476
00:32:39,636 --> 00:32:46,396
and so my trust is it never was high because I was reading and learning about these things through

477
00:32:46,396 --> 00:32:52,056
theology through the bible and also through history it was never high but I my trust is

478
00:32:52,056 --> 00:32:57,216
super low right now so when you want trust in the system you want people to say I'm going to start

479
00:32:57,216 --> 00:33:02,216
a business you want people to say I'm going to buy real estate and develop it you want people to say

480
00:33:02,216 --> 00:33:07,416
I'm going to participate and at some level and I don't think this is negative but at some level

481
00:33:07,416 --> 00:33:11,576
buying gold, the principles behind gold and Bitcoin are the same. That's what you were

482
00:33:11,576 --> 00:33:17,216
getting at, Jordan. The principles are the same. It's just that we have something that's a new tech

483
00:33:17,216 --> 00:33:22,556
that's never been here before that applies these principles into the cryptographic technological

484
00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:27,696
world. And so that's the thing where gold bugs should love Bitcoin too, because the principles

485
00:33:27,696 --> 00:33:32,996
behind it are the same. So if you're a person who's not in desperate, dire need to have an

486
00:33:32,996 --> 00:33:38,916
hourly wage at an at like McDonald's you know it's keeping keeping that type of situation out

487
00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:44,676
if you have something to stand on you don't have to be super wealthy you could be middle class

488
00:33:44,676 --> 00:33:49,156
you're going to have a tendency to say I'm not trusting therefore I'm not going to start a

489
00:33:49,156 --> 00:33:53,896
business I'm not going to develop real estate I'm not going to do these things which build

490
00:33:53,896 --> 00:33:58,936
the wealth of a nation which build the GDP etc you're going to say I'm going to sit back and let

491
00:33:58,936 --> 00:34:05,176
the clown show sort of destroy itself. And I'm going to hold on to gold. I'm going to hold on

492
00:34:05,176 --> 00:34:09,496
to Bitcoin. I'm going to sort of wait it out. I'm going to hold on to real estate even, even though

493
00:34:09,496 --> 00:34:16,756
that's probably not a great idea now. And so it's a sorry thing to see trust just be smashed in our

494
00:34:16,756 --> 00:34:21,776
nation. And what am I going to tell my children? I'm going to tell them the same thing. I'm not

495
00:34:21,776 --> 00:34:24,616
going to be bitter about it. I'm a Christian. I believe we should be hopeful for the future

496
00:34:24,616 --> 00:34:30,496
and we should be building things whether it makes us, you know, legacy money or not.

497
00:34:30,916 --> 00:34:34,756
But I'm still going to say this is not something you can trust.

498
00:34:35,456 --> 00:34:37,196
And I think that that's across the board.

499
00:34:37,296 --> 00:34:43,796
I think Gen Z is probably like the least trusting generation maybe in I don't know how long,

500
00:34:43,796 --> 00:34:45,836
maybe ever, at least in the U.S.

501
00:34:46,356 --> 00:34:52,476
And what government has to do is somehow regain that trust by radical changes that say,

502
00:34:52,476 --> 00:35:01,516
we want to promote and give you good regulations and give you fair tax codes and give you all these

503
00:35:01,516 --> 00:35:06,516
things. And even then it's going to be years before people will trust it. Because if you're

504
00:35:06,516 --> 00:35:10,536
going to say, I'm going to start a business. Decades. Yeah, decades. If you're going to say,

505
00:35:10,536 --> 00:35:14,596
and I do think the current administration is doing this. They're trying to encourage

506
00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:19,536
development in a lot of different areas. They're trying to make this happen. But if you're looking

507
00:35:19,536 --> 00:35:23,016
it like, okay, but two years from now, it could be literally the complete opposite.

508
00:35:24,256 --> 00:35:29,196
And I'll close my point with one anecdote, and it wasn't me, but it was a friend of ours.

509
00:35:30,076 --> 00:35:36,416
When the state is hungry for money, they come at you like bloodthirsty wolves. And this was the

510
00:35:36,416 --> 00:35:40,516
state of Hawaii, and they just started going through their ancient documents. And a friend

511
00:35:40,516 --> 00:35:46,676
of mine who has a 15-year business probably, when he first moved to Hawaii, he didn't realize about

512
00:35:46,676 --> 00:35:52,916
excise tax. We have excise tax here, not income tax. We do have income, but not sales tax. And so

513
00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:57,876
for the first few years of his business, he wasn't doing that tax properly. And so the state came

514
00:35:57,876 --> 00:36:04,436
after him for excise tax that was like 15 years old or something like that. And they came after

515
00:36:04,436 --> 00:36:11,016
him for multiple six figures, you know, like the entire savings of his family over the course of

516
00:36:11,016 --> 00:36:17,616
decade, more than a decade. And this is predatory behavior by the state. This is not saying you

517
00:36:17,616 --> 00:36:24,196
made a mistake. This is saying, what's the easy pickings? It's somebody who is saving,

518
00:36:24,676 --> 00:36:28,756
who's doing what the Bible says about saving. And it doesn't even matter that it's more than a

519
00:36:28,756 --> 00:36:36,516
decade old. Even the IRS doesn't go back more than seven years. So I just use that as an example of

520
00:36:36,516 --> 00:36:42,516
when you start to view your state as predatory and antithetical to building,

521
00:36:42,676 --> 00:36:44,136
you stop building and you say,

522
00:36:44,236 --> 00:36:47,856
I'm just going to stick my gold in the ground or my Bitcoin in a cold wallet and wait it out.

523
00:36:48,876 --> 00:36:54,236
And the thing that's really important here is because we can imagine,

524
00:36:54,236 --> 00:36:55,996
this has happened in other places,

525
00:36:56,576 --> 00:37:00,276
where there have been places where the economy gets bad and people flee to gold.

526
00:37:00,816 --> 00:37:04,536
And then the government or people who are not good thinkers

527
00:37:04,536 --> 00:37:13,276
basically try to fault those people for fleeing to gold and for not continuing in the economy as

528
00:37:13,276 --> 00:37:21,196
normal. And so again, it's a form of gaslighting because it's like you can't have it both ways,

529
00:37:21,196 --> 00:37:34,176
right? Because there's two ways that you can try to get trustworthiness. One is that you can demand

530
00:37:34,176 --> 00:37:40,076
it. And the other is that you can be worthy of it. And so you can see this same principle with

531
00:37:40,076 --> 00:37:44,276
parenting, right? You can have a parent who demands obedience from their children, or you

532
00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:49,876
could have a parent who, again, basically warrants trust and love from their children because of how

533
00:37:49,876 --> 00:37:56,516
they behave. And so if you're sitting here, there's Doug Wilson is a pastor who's written some of the

534
00:37:56,516 --> 00:38:01,116
best books about child rearing that I've read. I can't recommend them highly enough. But one of

535
00:38:01,116 --> 00:38:05,616
things he talks about is he's like, when you're basically requiring obedience from your children

536
00:38:05,616 --> 00:38:11,136
is like writing a check. And, and so like, if you're, and if you're trying to cash checks that

537
00:38:11,136 --> 00:38:15,276
you haven't been, you know, you haven't been putting money into the account, you can write

538
00:38:15,276 --> 00:38:19,396
checks, but that doesn't mean that they're going to, they're going to cash. And so for, there's a

539
00:38:19,396 --> 00:38:23,296
lot of, a lot of what the governments have been doing around the world is they've been drawing,

540
00:38:23,436 --> 00:38:27,136
they've been demanding, they've been doing these things. They've been trying to withdraw. And again,

541
00:38:27,136 --> 00:38:32,016
this is happening literally, something else we could talk about is Social Security, right?

542
00:38:32,276 --> 00:38:38,856
Social Security is going to be unable to estimate by 2033. They're going to be unable to fulfill

543
00:38:38,856 --> 00:38:43,416
all of their obligations. And so they'll be insolvent in the sense that they're not able

544
00:38:43,416 --> 00:38:50,716
to fulfill their complete obligations. So they're talking about 18%, 18%, they're basically only

545
00:38:50,716 --> 00:38:58,616
going to be able to pay out, I think like 82% in 2033 of what they would initially and what

546
00:38:58,616 --> 00:39:03,576
they've promised to people. And so this is just a reality that's going on. People are depending,

547
00:39:04,316 --> 00:39:08,416
they've gotten used to a level of stability, they've gotten used to a government who's just

548
00:39:08,416 --> 00:39:12,676
been able to step in and solve any problem that they have by printing more money and kicking the

549
00:39:12,676 --> 00:39:19,256
can further down the road. This is not sustainable. It cannot continue without severe injustice that's

550
00:39:19,256 --> 00:39:24,296
already happening it's only going to get worse and so this is this is just something like if you

551
00:39:24,296 --> 00:39:28,936
are depending on the government to come save you you are you're mistaken like you're making you're

552
00:39:28,936 --> 00:39:35,456
putting your trust in the wrong place uh and it's not going to end well there's a could I share

553
00:39:35,456 --> 00:39:40,636
something on the screen real quick and um yeah do it it's it's a super simple thing if someone

554
00:39:40,636 --> 00:39:48,876
hasn't seen it before it's called the the laugher curve and um it's so easy to understand that I

555
00:39:48,876 --> 00:39:53,756
think it'll stick. And this is an idea of taxation, but I think it applies to everything,

556
00:39:53,896 --> 00:39:58,696
including the child raising that you said. Here's the Laffer curve. The maximum amount is, let's

557
00:39:58,696 --> 00:40:06,176
say T in the middle here of revenue that the government could create for itself is at some

558
00:40:06,176 --> 00:40:11,976
point, it's not going to be nothing. If you charge 0% tax rate, you're not going to get anything.

559
00:40:12,256 --> 00:40:16,736
But if you charge 100% or 90% tax rate, you're also getting nothing.

560
00:40:16,736 --> 00:40:23,116
so the number is not known exactly what's the perfect thing that's the game you know not to say

561
00:40:23,116 --> 00:40:28,176
that the goal of life is to get the greatest tax revenue but keeping this in mind for the other

562
00:40:28,176 --> 00:40:33,896
things we discussed you have to actually place that at somewhere where it's still motivating

563
00:40:33,896 --> 00:40:40,876
to go to work and to do your thing but not too high because the higher if you make it too high

564
00:40:40,876 --> 00:40:46,916
your revenue actually goes down because people will refuse to cooperate. They will refuse to

565
00:40:46,916 --> 00:40:54,336
work. Or if you're a business owner, you will buy a Hummer instead of taking the profit,

566
00:40:54,736 --> 00:41:01,216
you know, or whatever, section 19 write-offs, you know, or whatever. And so there's a thousand

567
00:41:01,216 --> 00:41:07,396
ways that you will figure out not to pay when you perceive that what's happening is unjust.

568
00:41:08,276 --> 00:41:15,336
And so I think this is true with taxes, but it's also true in those other areas that you mentioned.

569
00:41:15,456 --> 00:41:17,076
And it's such a simple drawing.

570
00:41:17,196 --> 00:41:20,196
I think it helps to sort of imprint that in the mind.

571
00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:22,836
That is helpful.

572
00:41:24,956 --> 00:41:27,236
Ryan, I did a little bit of math for your church.

573
00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:30,636
Feel free to pass it on if you want.

574
00:41:32,096 --> 00:41:32,536
Hypothetical.

575
00:41:32,536 --> 00:41:33,676
I don't know the exact numbers.

576
00:41:33,676 --> 00:41:42,796
It could have been a 40% increase, but still, we're still talking millions of dollars.

577
00:41:43,956 --> 00:41:51,196
So we'll say conservative, it was a 40% increase in the building costs over the last five years.

578
00:41:51,316 --> 00:41:54,576
So let's say, so I did the math with Bitcoin.

579
00:41:54,576 --> 00:42:00,136
Okay, let's say it's a $10 million goal that they originally raised, okay?

580
00:42:00,136 --> 00:42:07,736
and then it went up 40 percent um right let's say then it was 14 or 15 thousand or 14 or 15

581
00:42:07,736 --> 00:42:15,556
uh sorry million 14 million 14 million let's say um so if they had put 10 percent into bitcoin

582
00:42:15,556 --> 00:42:23,256
so 1 million into bitcoin in the summer of 2020 they would have bought 108 bitcoin

583
00:42:23,256 --> 00:42:31,116
which today is worth $13.2 million.

584
00:42:32,176 --> 00:42:39,696
So a 10% hedge would have made them,

585
00:42:40,376 --> 00:42:41,056
what's that?

586
00:42:41,436 --> 00:42:42,416
$12.2 million.

587
00:42:43,596 --> 00:42:45,736
Okay, let's say it was just a 5% hedge

588
00:42:45,736 --> 00:42:51,656
and they got $500,000 worth of Bitcoin, right?

589
00:42:51,656 --> 00:42:55,056
in the summer 2020, they have about 54 Bitcoin.

590
00:42:56,356 --> 00:42:59,496
That would be worth $6.6 million.

591
00:43:00,616 --> 00:43:05,936
So just a 5% hedge would protect it against

592
00:43:05,936 --> 00:43:13,076
even like a 50 or 60% increase in the price of their project

593
00:43:13,076 --> 00:43:15,576
over a five-year period.

594
00:43:16,376 --> 00:43:16,496
Yep.

595
00:43:16,496 --> 00:43:16,816
Yep.

596
00:43:18,176 --> 00:43:18,996
Oh, man.

597
00:43:18,996 --> 00:43:35,636
This is one of the reasons why every church needs Bitcoiners, and then also those Bitcoiners have to volunteer to be on the finance department or at least get the ear of those that make the decisions.

598
00:43:36,676 --> 00:43:40,656
And yeah, and I would say on the earlier side, because the debasement's only accelerating.

599
00:43:42,656 --> 00:43:48,656
So which influencers do we need in our culture to start speaking out about this?

600
00:43:48,656 --> 00:43:50,656
like Christian theologians and stuff like that.

601
00:43:53,656 --> 00:43:54,556
Is there anyone

602
00:43:54,556 --> 00:43:56,676
besides Dave Ramsey

603
00:43:56,676 --> 00:43:57,276
could repent?

604
00:43:57,976 --> 00:43:59,856
Dave Ramsey, hey, let's go.

605
00:44:00,356 --> 00:44:01,236
Let's see what you think of heaven.

606
00:44:02,216 --> 00:44:03,256
But no, literally,

607
00:44:03,556 --> 00:44:06,516
there's probably thousands of churches across the country

608
00:44:06,516 --> 00:44:08,376
take their people

609
00:44:08,376 --> 00:44:10,376
through his training material.

610
00:44:11,276 --> 00:44:11,916
I mean,

611
00:44:12,016 --> 00:44:14,536
if you're talking about influence, probably one of the

612
00:44:14,536 --> 00:44:16,516
people just got killed, Charlie

613
00:44:16,516 --> 00:44:17,916
Kirk. Charlie Kirk was a Bitcoiner.

614
00:44:17,916 --> 00:44:20,436
he actually talked about it a fair amount

615
00:44:20,436 --> 00:44:24,656
but yeah if you just think about who actually has

616
00:44:24,656 --> 00:44:26,216
sway with people

617
00:44:26,216 --> 00:44:28,376
that's a good question I don't know

618
00:44:28,376 --> 00:44:29,516
who would need to

619
00:44:29,516 --> 00:44:31,056
who would be the biggest

620
00:44:31,056 --> 00:44:32,716
honestly it would probably

621
00:44:32,716 --> 00:44:35,776
this is funny this is a conversation for a different day

622
00:44:35,776 --> 00:44:37,736
but I was listening to a podcast

623
00:44:37,736 --> 00:44:40,276
and they were talking about Stephen A. Smith

624
00:44:40,276 --> 00:44:42,156
and Stephen A. Smith

625
00:44:42,156 --> 00:44:44,036
is apparently seriously considering running

626
00:44:44,036 --> 00:44:44,616
for president

627
00:44:44,616 --> 00:44:47,876
and part of the reason why it's

628
00:44:47,876 --> 00:44:48,696
even like,

629
00:44:48,736 --> 00:44:48,976
I mean,

630
00:44:48,976 --> 00:44:50,896
just if somebody would have told you that 10 years ago,

631
00:44:50,956 --> 00:44:51,516
that Stephen A.

632
00:44:51,516 --> 00:44:51,756
Smith,

633
00:44:51,856 --> 00:44:52,636
for those of you guys are,

634
00:44:52,856 --> 00:44:53,116
Stephen A.

635
00:44:53,116 --> 00:44:55,256
Smith is like a host of a show on ESPN,

636
00:44:55,476 --> 00:44:56,196
a few different theories,

637
00:44:56,816 --> 00:44:57,656
but just like,

638
00:44:57,696 --> 00:44:57,916
I mean,

639
00:44:58,256 --> 00:45:00,636
debate show argues like crazy.

640
00:45:01,016 --> 00:45:01,756
He's not,

641
00:45:01,916 --> 00:45:03,936
he's not known for being a serious person,

642
00:45:03,936 --> 00:45:05,176
but he is,

643
00:45:05,376 --> 00:45:06,076
he is a well,

644
00:45:06,156 --> 00:45:09,136
he's respected enough and has like a high enough Q score,

645
00:45:09,136 --> 00:45:11,876
which is basically like the popularity at a,

646
00:45:11,876 --> 00:45:12,316
at a,

647
00:45:12,316 --> 00:45:12,696
you know,

648
00:45:12,736 --> 00:45:14,216
national level or whatever it is.

649
00:45:14,356 --> 00:45:15,276
He's got a good enough,

650
00:45:15,376 --> 00:45:16,076
you know,

651
00:45:16,136 --> 00:45:17,856
reputation where,

652
00:45:17,876 --> 00:45:24,996
he's trying to, he's thinking about leveraging that into basically political career in politics.

653
00:45:25,456 --> 00:45:29,196
And so this is what we're seeing is like, if you look, because of the fracturization that's

654
00:45:29,196 --> 00:45:33,596
happening with, as media gets fractured, as all these other things get fractured,

655
00:45:34,056 --> 00:45:37,216
you know, news doesn't have the same sway as it once did, all these other things.

656
00:45:37,496 --> 00:45:42,196
The one thing that people, that still is like unifying people enough to have something

657
00:45:42,196 --> 00:45:46,636
approaching what's called like a monoculture, where kind of everybody has like a shared

658
00:45:46,636 --> 00:45:52,476
experience of something that's going on is sports. And so, so like somebody, it would,

659
00:45:52,536 --> 00:45:56,596
it probably be something if we were trying to get a large, a number of Christians on board,

660
00:45:57,016 --> 00:46:01,436
there's a probably a real sense. I mean, I'm sure Trump, Trump's probably the real answer to this,

661
00:46:01,436 --> 00:46:06,856
just because of how big, you know, politics is. Um, he's, he's being positive about Bitcoin.

662
00:46:07,196 --> 00:46:13,216
I'm sure that's had some sort of, uh, healthy angle, but, uh, I think that, you know, an athlete,

663
00:46:13,216 --> 00:46:14,876
some sort of athlete, that would be helpful.

664
00:46:15,776 --> 00:46:16,916
Hey, we need to get...

665
00:46:16,916 --> 00:46:18,776
I'm not trying to belabor the point,

666
00:46:18,916 --> 00:46:20,856
but I'm thinking if we're on the church topic,

667
00:46:21,276 --> 00:46:24,216
you know, pastors are looking to...

668
00:46:25,576 --> 00:46:28,516
20 years ago when I was doing my theological things,

669
00:46:28,576 --> 00:46:30,436
it was like some of them are gone now.

670
00:46:30,536 --> 00:46:31,676
You know, we just lost Vody.

671
00:46:31,816 --> 00:46:32,216
We just lost...

672
00:46:32,816 --> 00:46:35,456
We lost Arthur Spruill.

673
00:46:35,636 --> 00:46:36,656
We lost MacArthur.

674
00:46:37,156 --> 00:46:37,656
I was...

675
00:46:37,656 --> 00:46:41,596
I'm a Piperian pietist myself.

676
00:46:41,596 --> 00:46:43,876
we also had

677
00:46:43,876 --> 00:46:45,676
what do you call it

678
00:46:45,676 --> 00:46:47,636
Wayne Grudem but I think he has mental

679
00:46:47,636 --> 00:46:49,656
decline now due to something

680
00:46:49,656 --> 00:46:51,936
I can't remember ALS

681
00:46:51,936 --> 00:46:53,596
maybe or something like that and so

682
00:46:53,596 --> 00:46:55,476
I'm wondering who are the people

683
00:46:55,476 --> 00:46:57,716
with that same level of

684
00:46:57,716 --> 00:46:59,756
theological influence so that

685
00:46:59,756 --> 00:47:01,756
the pastors go okay this isn't

686
00:47:01,756 --> 00:47:03,896
me taking the trusted money

687
00:47:03,896 --> 00:47:19,945
from my congregations and taking a big risk it actually the opposite because that the flip for churches that needs to happen is for them not to say um oh sorry about that guys if only we could i put it on do not

688
00:47:19,945 --> 00:47:26,665
disturb you mute yourself it's continue the conversation if only we could do a series of

689
00:47:26,665 --> 00:47:35,804
articles on the gospel coalition website do you make that happen hmm that's uh to be continued

690
00:47:35,804 --> 00:47:42,744
it's uh yeah we need to we need to talk to our our boy but uh but yeah i mean this is this really

691
00:47:42,744 --> 00:47:46,224
is it's something there's a lot of people who recognize that something's wrong but they don't

692
00:47:46,224 --> 00:47:52,124
know how to put their finger on it bitcoin sounds too insane uh i get it i get it i just i just

693
00:47:52,124 --> 00:47:57,044
tweeted the other day or i sent a message on facebook it was like i get that bitcoin seems

694
00:47:57,044 --> 00:48:03,845
risky i get that it seems cringe uh but you don't get to choose the world that you live in like this

695
00:48:03,845 --> 00:48:07,064
It doesn't matter what the outward appearance is of things.

696
00:48:07,144 --> 00:48:08,064
What matters is what's real.

697
00:48:08,644 --> 00:48:10,825
We were talking about that before we came on.

698
00:48:11,825 --> 00:48:17,064
Everyone doesn't get to, like, if you don't want to deal with debasement, tough luck.

699
00:48:17,165 --> 00:48:18,804
Everyone's going to deal with debasement.

700
00:48:19,024 --> 00:48:22,964
Everyone's going to be wrecked by inflation in the years and decades ahead.

701
00:48:23,445 --> 00:48:27,064
So, yeah, my encouragement, it's kind of like the gospel.

702
00:48:27,064 --> 00:48:33,964
Nobody gets the gospel unless they see themselves as a sinner in need of a savior, right?

703
00:48:34,104 --> 00:48:36,644
And the same goes for Bitcoin.

704
00:48:36,885 --> 00:48:44,825
If you do not need safety from debasement or if you don't need an exit from it, you don't need Bitcoin.

705
00:48:45,124 --> 00:48:49,984
But ultimately, what we're trying to tell people is you do need something to deal with debasement.

706
00:48:50,564 --> 00:48:53,845
And so try to figure out what are the possible solutions.

707
00:48:53,845 --> 00:48:54,804
Make a list.

708
00:48:55,165 --> 00:48:55,905
Do your research.

709
00:48:56,044 --> 00:48:56,604
Do the work.

710
00:48:57,064 --> 00:49:04,064
If you don't want to do the work, you're being lazy, and then you're going to suffer for it, or your family's going to suffer, or your kids, or your church.

711
00:49:04,064 --> 00:49:13,224
At the end of the day, sometimes we can be tempted to be a little bit impatient, but it's like this has been going on for a long time.

712
00:49:14,084 --> 00:49:15,064
The four of us.

713
00:49:15,064 --> 00:49:15,865
The Roman's Road.

714
00:49:16,024 --> 00:49:17,504
The Roman's Road for Bitcoin.

715
00:49:18,504 --> 00:49:26,284
Well, honestly, one of the things I think about all the time, I mean, we wrote a book called The Gospel According to Bitcoin because there's a hundred things in which—

716
00:49:26,284 --> 00:49:31,584
There's a hundred things that happened in which you can analogize either Bitcoin with the gospel or the gospel with Bitcoin.

717
00:49:32,224 --> 00:49:43,984
And one of the things that happened over and over again was that people's objections that they had to Jesus, they had aesthetic objections to what Jesus was doing.

718
00:49:44,385 --> 00:49:48,784
Like they objected to the fact that he was a suffering Messiah.

719
00:49:49,405 --> 00:49:50,665
Like this offended people.

720
00:49:50,784 --> 00:49:54,744
They're like, we were expecting Messiah who's a king, who's ruling, who's squashing his enemies.

721
00:49:55,345 --> 00:50:00,185
And so that offended people, the fact that he didn't look like the way that they wanted him to look.

722
00:50:00,584 --> 00:50:02,104
And this happens over and over again.

723
00:50:02,165 --> 00:50:04,944
Christians, we look weak, and yet we continue.

724
00:50:05,104 --> 00:50:07,345
We're here 2,000 years later when other things aren't.

725
00:50:08,024 --> 00:50:09,865
And so this is a temptation.

726
00:50:09,865 --> 00:50:13,584
It's always a temptation is to look on the outward appearance.

727
00:50:14,524 --> 00:50:17,205
And the outward appearance of Bitcoin is silly.

728
00:50:17,385 --> 00:50:18,004
It's foolish.

729
00:50:18,304 --> 00:50:19,385
It looks ridiculous.

730
00:50:19,504 --> 00:50:23,444
It's magic internet money that somebody made up 16 years ago.

731
00:50:23,584 --> 00:50:24,584
It looks stupid.

732
00:50:24,744 --> 00:50:29,905
like and so people there's a whole group of people out here dave ramsey included david bodson included

733
00:50:29,905 --> 00:50:35,425
all these people who they look at bitcoin and it looks so stupid it offends them to the point that

734
00:50:35,425 --> 00:50:40,784
they don't want to take it seriously and we're past the time like we're past the point where

735
00:50:40,784 --> 00:50:46,644
that's an acceptable thing to happen like at this point 16 years in it is now a character flaw on the

736
00:50:46,644 --> 00:50:51,984
part of these guys for them to continue making fun of bitcoin and in treating it like it's for

737
00:50:51,984 --> 00:50:56,544
little kids. Like, it's ridiculous. They ought to be ashamed of themselves and they need to like

738
00:50:56,544 --> 00:51:00,804
wake up and or else their entire reputations are going to be destroyed. Like, that's really what

739
00:51:00,804 --> 00:51:06,484
we're looking at. They need to humble themselves. It's arrogance and pride is what it is. It

740
00:51:06,484 --> 00:51:14,905
absolutely is. Amen. So Ryan, what would it take? I mean, it has to start local. We have a lot of

741
00:51:14,905 --> 00:51:19,144
conversations about our family. How do we raise our kids well? How do we figure out things locally?

742
00:51:19,144 --> 00:51:25,925
so it has to start locally in our own churches so i was able to help my my church accept uh bitcoin

743
00:51:25,925 --> 00:51:33,064
donations and i've started giving my my offering in in bitcoin um and i just i did the legwork for

744
00:51:33,064 --> 00:51:41,425
it um and it's it's uh been been profitable my my tithe is up 25 percent um because they've they've

745
00:51:41,425 --> 00:51:48,385
held it um so what does it look like for you to go talk to them like okay the cost of doing this

746
00:51:48,385 --> 00:51:53,064
has gone up 40%. They're obviously going back to the congregation to say, we need to raise more

747
00:51:53,064 --> 00:52:02,584
money. How do you build a proposal? How do you show them the backdated math? If you had done this,

748
00:52:03,104 --> 00:52:08,365
you'd be here. Okay. Now in the future, is debasement going to continue? Because you might

749
00:52:08,365 --> 00:52:12,345
say, oh, that was just COVID. That was COVID money printing. We knew there was inflation,

750
00:52:12,624 --> 00:52:18,224
but it's stabilized. So you got to ask that question. Is this going to continue to happen

751
00:52:18,224 --> 00:52:24,185
in the future if you can show that do you think your leadership would sit down and say hey it's

752
00:52:24,185 --> 00:52:29,425
actually bad stewardship we know this bad stewardship to hold this in a four percent

753
00:52:29,425 --> 00:52:35,644
returning savings account and can is it good stewardship to put a percentage into bitcoin

754
00:52:35,644 --> 00:52:43,944
yeah i mean we'll we'll see i think uh from conversations i've had not i'm not talking about

755
00:52:43,944 --> 00:52:46,804
I think our leaders in our church are coming around.

756
00:52:46,905 --> 00:52:47,845
They've been reading books.

757
00:52:48,144 --> 00:52:49,724
We've been having conversations.

758
00:52:50,385 --> 00:52:58,784
I think there's another level of conviction that's required for pastors and elders because they're stewarding the people's money.

759
00:52:59,925 --> 00:53:09,644
And so that can cause, like, you really need to be, you have to be really bold and you have to lead with a lot of conviction.

760
00:53:09,644 --> 00:53:17,425
and that's not easy to come by because like as a culture and again this is i'm not saying this

761
00:53:17,425 --> 00:53:22,885
this is no personal dig against anybody but we're a risk averse culture we're uh another way of

762
00:53:22,885 --> 00:53:28,165
saying that is we're a very feminized culture that like uh when it comes to things like this

763
00:53:28,165 --> 00:53:33,624
um i know that kind of sounds harsh but it's it's it's just true i don't i don't think we can

764
00:53:33,624 --> 00:53:39,224
quite say like it's it's not just feminine to to want to be risk averse like okay right it's

765
00:53:39,224 --> 00:53:43,044
there's a certain amount of wisdom in trying to avoid certain types of risks.

766
00:53:43,044 --> 00:53:43,665
But again,

767
00:53:43,685 --> 00:53:45,044
it just kind of depends on.

768
00:53:46,304 --> 00:53:47,064
By the way,

769
00:53:47,104 --> 00:53:47,405
you say,

770
00:53:47,504 --> 00:53:49,284
I say that just because it's,

771
00:53:49,405 --> 00:53:50,365
I feel like we've,

772
00:53:50,504 --> 00:53:53,665
it's crossed over into the way we do a lot of things.

773
00:53:53,984 --> 00:53:54,144
Yeah.

774
00:53:54,144 --> 00:53:54,905
It's not just,

775
00:53:55,064 --> 00:53:57,024
I think what you're saying is boldness kind of,

776
00:53:57,064 --> 00:53:59,544
it's like being bold is not the same as,

777
00:53:59,544 --> 00:54:00,044
um,

778
00:54:00,124 --> 00:54:00,365
yeah.

779
00:54:00,685 --> 00:54:01,744
Are you going to reach?

780
00:54:02,564 --> 00:54:02,764
Yeah.

781
00:54:03,764 --> 00:54:04,084
Yeah.

782
00:54:04,304 --> 00:54:04,705
Um,

783
00:54:04,984 --> 00:54:05,425
you know,

784
00:54:05,425 --> 00:54:05,925
something we,

785
00:54:05,964 --> 00:54:07,284
we talked about this a while back,

786
00:54:07,284 --> 00:54:08,865
but it might not have been on this pod.

787
00:54:08,865 --> 00:54:22,705
And one of the simple things could be Osh gives such and such amount of Bitcoin to his church and requests that it would remain as Bitcoin until it needs to be spent on something.

788
00:54:22,865 --> 00:54:24,925
Or say, I'm giving you Bitcoin.

789
00:54:25,365 --> 00:54:27,484
It would be like giving you a property, right?

790
00:54:27,624 --> 00:54:30,405
And I'm asking that you don't just convert it into money.

791
00:54:30,644 --> 00:54:33,604
Not to say you have to, because when you give a gift, it should be.

792
00:54:33,604 --> 00:54:37,964
but it would give the freedom to a pastor or a church to say,

793
00:54:38,084 --> 00:54:42,724
hey, it was given to us and requested that it would stay in this format as this asset.

794
00:54:43,004 --> 00:54:45,544
That could be kind of a first few simple steps,

795
00:54:45,624 --> 00:54:47,984
especially for a church that's open to the idea,

796
00:54:47,984 --> 00:54:59,325
but doesn't want to cause strain and grief to their Bitcoin unbelieving congregation.

797
00:54:59,764 --> 00:55:01,845
I still think for the vast majority of people,

798
00:55:01,845 --> 00:55:23,885
Like, unfortunately, yeah, I think when I think about the churches and pastors, it really comes down to their objection to holding Bitcoin is just because they're thinking about in the terms of, I have so much capital and trust.

799
00:55:24,044 --> 00:55:28,685
Again, it's like I have storehouses of trust with my people.

800
00:55:28,984 --> 00:55:31,144
Is this something that I want to spend it on?

801
00:55:31,845 --> 00:55:54,604
You know, and how much do I actually believe that this is actually a problem? And if I do, what's going to be the cost to try to get this across? And we've talked with our brothers in the PCA, like some of them, they had to really put 15 years of credibility on the line to try to get this, you know, the Bitcoin overture to try.

802
00:55:54,604 --> 00:55:59,865
when they presented that they had, you know, uh, what's his name? Uh, Ben, uh, Haley has talked

803
00:55:59,865 --> 00:56:03,624
about the thing. He's like, when I, when I presented that and started talking about that,

804
00:56:03,624 --> 00:56:08,944
he's like, there were people I'd known for 10, 15 years who I saw it in their eyes.

805
00:56:09,244 --> 00:56:15,104
They lost respect for me. And so I think that we, we do have to recognize like, this is a real,

806
00:56:15,405 --> 00:56:20,825
like, this is a real thing that people are going to have to reckon with, uh, that isn't a small

807
00:56:20,825 --> 00:56:25,124
thing and at the same time what the issue that we're talking about is a big deal so it it really

808
00:56:25,124 --> 00:56:31,084
i think the the call for bravery and boldness really is you know we i'm sorry you're not owed

809
00:56:31,084 --> 00:56:39,244
an easy choice like you're not owed an easy an easy situation yeah i think starting as a bitcoin

810
00:56:39,244 --> 00:56:46,464
donor is definitely the first step but unless you're like you're you're the the the sugar daddy

811
00:56:46,464 --> 00:56:51,385
of the church and you're the main funder of the building project it's just a drop in the bucket

812
00:56:51,385 --> 00:56:58,665
um but i i think you can still be more compelling you can you can initiate it you can set up that

813
00:56:58,665 --> 00:57:04,964
bitcoin account donation with with a five thousand dollar like it should be meaningful

814
00:57:04,964 --> 00:57:11,264
like make it worth the effort yeah so give them a few thousand they they set up the the bitcoin

815
00:57:11,264 --> 00:57:14,365
an account with River or Strike or something.

816
00:57:14,484 --> 00:57:15,264
They do the work.

817
00:57:15,944 --> 00:57:17,064
And then it's going to sit there

818
00:57:17,064 --> 00:57:18,504
until you actually say,

819
00:57:18,644 --> 00:57:21,424
let this be the last expense

820
00:57:21,424 --> 00:57:24,084
to open the building.

821
00:57:24,764 --> 00:57:26,885
Okay, that's your donor's request.

822
00:57:27,244 --> 00:57:28,644
Church's honor donor's request.

823
00:57:28,764 --> 00:57:30,064
I want this Bitcoin to be spent

824
00:57:30,064 --> 00:57:31,744
right before we open the doors.

825
00:57:32,365 --> 00:57:34,825
And then you can start talking to others.

826
00:57:34,825 --> 00:57:37,524
Then you can build the campaign for,

827
00:57:37,984 --> 00:57:39,964
hey guys, let's put 3% of this money

828
00:57:39,964 --> 00:57:41,365
into Bitcoin.

829
00:57:41,784 --> 00:57:43,284
Here's what this would do.

830
00:57:44,165 --> 00:57:45,685
And I mean,

831
00:57:45,845 --> 00:57:47,944
get some of our friends, right?

832
00:57:47,984 --> 00:57:49,185
That are sophisticated investors

833
00:57:49,185 --> 00:57:50,825
that are respected.

834
00:57:50,944 --> 00:57:52,124
Say, hey, we'll do a phone call.

835
00:57:52,325 --> 00:57:53,325
Don't have to listen to me.

836
00:57:53,604 --> 00:57:55,524
The profits never woke him in his hometown.

837
00:57:56,424 --> 00:57:57,865
So like Ryan's,

838
00:57:57,964 --> 00:57:58,905
he's just the wacko.

839
00:57:59,205 --> 00:58:00,784
Like he's crazy.

840
00:58:00,865 --> 00:58:01,464
He's the Bitcoiner.

841
00:58:01,564 --> 00:58:02,185
Yeah, we all get it,

842
00:58:02,205 --> 00:58:03,484
but we like him, right?

843
00:58:04,244 --> 00:58:06,345
But we can bring in some connections

844
00:58:06,345 --> 00:58:09,385
from some like well-respected companies

845
00:58:09,385 --> 00:58:11,185
that are Christians and Bitcoiners

846
00:58:11,185 --> 00:58:12,804
who will sit down and say,

847
00:58:12,924 --> 00:58:13,705
hey, here's the math.

848
00:58:14,325 --> 00:58:17,205
And I'd had a crazy conversation

849
00:58:17,205 --> 00:58:18,544
that was so surprising recently

850
00:58:18,544 --> 00:58:21,504
with an older gentleman

851
00:58:21,504 --> 00:58:28,205
who has authority to allocate money

852
00:58:28,205 --> 00:58:29,665
for a Christian organization

853
00:58:29,665 --> 00:58:33,865
and is not willing to risk

854
00:58:33,865 --> 00:58:36,345
the organization's assets with Bitcoin

855
00:58:36,345 --> 00:58:39,044
and has a number of questions around it

856
00:58:39,044 --> 00:58:40,284
and is just not going to go there.

857
00:58:41,744 --> 00:58:45,624
But I just found out that he has his own allocation to Bitcoin.

858
00:58:46,685 --> 00:58:49,064
And it was really surprising.

859
00:58:49,524 --> 00:58:50,725
But I think that is that difference.

860
00:58:50,865 --> 00:58:54,124
You might find elders and finance committee members

861
00:58:54,124 --> 00:58:55,685
that are like, you know what?

862
00:58:55,725 --> 00:58:56,484
You're right, Ryan.

863
00:58:56,825 --> 00:58:58,524
I'm going to buy some Bitcoin.

864
00:58:58,905 --> 00:59:00,385
I'm going to put some high retirement in this.

865
00:59:00,764 --> 00:59:02,165
But, oh, the church's money?

866
00:59:02,484 --> 00:59:05,624
That's like an extra level of, oh, that's God's money.

867
00:59:05,944 --> 00:59:06,865
What if I'm wrong?

868
00:59:06,865 --> 00:59:10,464
and I think that's a good instinct

869
00:59:10,464 --> 00:59:12,264
but it's still

870
00:59:12,264 --> 00:59:13,084
wrongly applied

871
00:59:13,084 --> 00:59:16,665
and you're being naive about the debasement

872
00:59:16,665 --> 00:59:18,905
because you know the debasement is a given

873
00:59:18,905 --> 00:59:20,365
it's bad stewardship

874
00:59:20,365 --> 00:59:21,984
to lose

875
00:59:21,984 --> 00:59:23,885
36%

876
00:59:23,885 --> 00:59:26,524
because you only gain 4%

877
00:59:26,524 --> 00:59:29,365
that's what I'm saying

878
00:59:29,365 --> 00:59:31,144
again it's a longer conversation

879
00:59:31,144 --> 00:59:32,225
but I really do think

880
00:59:32,225 --> 00:59:34,665
there is worldly aspects

881
00:59:34,665 --> 00:59:35,804
to our culture

882
00:59:35,804 --> 00:59:43,284
especially being risk averse that has seeped into all different areas and it's kind of subtle but

883
00:59:43,284 --> 00:59:54,705
you're like like like why is that the worst thing but but like holding a currency that loses eight

884
00:59:54,705 --> 01:00:00,705
percent of its value why is that not that's actually worse like so it's just what we view

885
01:00:00,705 --> 01:00:07,784
as bad like it's just um but here's the thing if you store it in the currency like we've all been

886
01:00:07,784 --> 01:00:12,725
conditioned to to just take it right we're all boiling in a pot and if you leave it in the

887
01:00:12,725 --> 01:00:17,084
currency and you get eight percent stolen from you each year well you know you were being conservative

888
01:00:17,084 --> 01:00:23,564
you were being safe and it's like man like it's just acceptable losses at this point it's acceptable

889
01:00:23,564 --> 01:00:29,644
casualties of the of the resources and that i just think that needs to change we need again this is

890
01:00:29,644 --> 01:00:36,764
what christians need to speak the truth and not be ashamed debasement's bad it's impacting everyone

891
01:00:36,764 --> 01:00:44,424
um and we can't be afraid to say it you know because you know at some point they will wake

892
01:00:44,424 --> 01:00:51,665
up and they will look back at us three four crazy guys you know and be like here's they were right

893
01:00:51,665 --> 01:00:59,865
yeah and i think it is there is this liability where and the risk averse where if you make an

894
01:00:59,865 --> 01:01:05,665
active decision when you steward the finances for the church you can be actively to blame

895
01:01:05,665 --> 01:01:14,705
if you sit and do nothing and well look the the the construction costs went up by 40 that's

896
01:01:14,705 --> 01:01:21,604
outside of our control what do i control the cost exactly yeah surely not so so i've

897
01:01:21,604 --> 01:01:25,665
It's playing not to lose.

898
01:01:25,804 --> 01:01:27,084
It's not playing to win.

899
01:01:27,185 --> 01:01:32,165
And again, it's another thing where we haven't been playing to win in so many different areas.

900
01:01:32,165 --> 01:01:34,244
And it's like, it's absolutely devastating.

901
01:01:35,484 --> 01:01:36,284
Oh my gosh.

902
01:01:36,304 --> 01:01:37,484
We need to do a whole episode on that.

903
01:01:37,484 --> 01:01:39,905
Again, that's kind of what every episode is.

904
01:01:40,185 --> 01:01:45,385
Now that if we summarize that, yeah, it's like playing not to lose versus playing to win.

905
01:01:46,885 --> 01:01:47,464
Oh, man.

906
01:01:47,464 --> 01:01:53,365
And yeah, the implications, especially on culture, politics.

907
01:01:53,764 --> 01:01:54,004
Yep.

908
01:01:54,964 --> 01:01:55,264
Yeah.

909
01:01:55,604 --> 01:02:00,325
Well, man, we could go a lot more on this topic, but we'll cut it there.

910
01:02:00,504 --> 01:02:02,225
Ryan, Oshawa, appreciate you guys.

911
01:02:02,365 --> 01:02:03,264
Matt had to leave.

912
01:02:03,685 --> 01:02:08,345
Again, we are grateful for you guys for joining us on this episode of To the Unknown Pod.

913
01:02:08,725 --> 01:02:14,464
If you have questions, shoot them to us at social at tgfb.com.

914
01:02:14,464 --> 01:02:17,584
We'd love to answer them or find us on Twitter.

915
01:02:17,845 --> 01:02:19,345
You can send us messages on there.

916
01:02:19,464 --> 01:02:20,304
I think our DMs are open.

917
01:02:20,385 --> 01:02:20,944
That should work.

918
01:02:21,405 --> 01:02:27,764
If you have enjoyed this episode, go and like, subscribe, leave reviews, that kind of thing.

919
01:02:27,865 --> 01:02:28,964
Comment on YouTube.

920
01:02:29,264 --> 01:02:32,564
All these things make a big difference in terms of other people finding them.

921
01:02:32,685 --> 01:02:34,185
So we are grateful for you.

922
01:02:34,244 --> 01:02:38,564
And we will be back on another episode later this week with the Mountain Presby's.

923
01:02:38,624 --> 01:02:39,604
This should be fun.

924
01:02:40,365 --> 01:02:42,165
And we will see you then.

925
01:02:44,464 --> 01:02:51,464
.