and we are live episode 21 of to the unknown pod jim can you believe it unbelievable uh
unbelievable uh we never could have imagined guys episode 21 a magical a magical very important
number in the bitcoin world uh this uh portends great things to come this will be great uh we we
are here alone again, Jim. We keep having friends who fail us. This is one of these things. Tim
isn't feeling well today. Pray for him. Oshawa, who knows what he's doing? He's out there dancing
around Portland. He could be doing any one of a number of things. We won't even venture a guest,
but we are here today. We are faithful here, pronouncing and tooting our own horn of our
faithfulness. Probably not the way to go, but yeah, we're just here. This is going to be an
interesting episode. Let me just introduce myself for those of you who are just happy to stumble
across this on Twitter. My name is Jordan Bush. I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, which
exists to help Christians understand and use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of
people everywhere. And today I'm joined by only Jim McAndrew. Jim, introduce yourself for the
fine folks watching at home. Hi, my name is Jim. I started a nonprofit with Tim Fox called Magnolia.
We served Orange Pill the Church, Jesus Pill Bitcoiners, and Doctrine Pill everybody else.
uh i'm currently sitting at my command center um i've been vibe coding all morning which is
anathema if you've watched the previous episodes it's anathema to me so uh i'll report back later
on my findings but so far i'm not impressed jim's a backslider is what he just confessed to uh he's
he's been a vocal uh uh opponent of vibe coding and apparently he's he's you know putting a toe
into the water uh but anyhow jim so basically again for those of you who are just watching
maybe for the first time, what are we doing here? Well, the thing is that we spend time on Twitter
every week and we could just go along and just, you know, let that time just fall off into the
void like, you know, many people do. But as Christians, we want to redeem the time. We want
to basically take, you know, take our time on Twitter and turn it into something that's useful,
that could be a blessing, that could be helpful and, you know, it could help people think through
some of the issues that, you know, we find in some of these tweets. So that's what we do. We
find tweets every week. We bring them here. And just as we're doing this, sometimes I'll see a
tweet and I'll think, oh man, I want to hear, I've got to hear Tim's doctrinal take on this issue.
Or I want to hear Jim, what he thinks about this from a business standpoint,
from an investing standpoint. And so this is what we do. So welcome. We're glad to have you here.
And so we're going to start just start with a little something, a little spicy today. I know
you guys are just used, maybe not used to us doing such spicy things, but I happen to be,
there's a couple of tweets that are related here to this issue about, you know, what do you do?
We look around and we see the financial situation of the country getting worse and worse and worse.
People are in crisis in a hundred different ways. And so the question is, what can you really do
about this as just a normal person? Like what do you actually do when the government's stealing
from you via inflation and via just even more flagrantly, you know, through a bunch of these
pork-filled bills that get passed. And then there's just a hundred other ways in which
our purchasing power is being stolen from us. What do you actually do? And so, listen, one of the
prophets of the modern day is Tucker Carlson. And Tucker Carlson, he's got an idea he's been
thinking up. Let's kick it over to old Tucker and see what he's thinking and see what we think
whether it says as Christians, as men, as Bitcoiners. Let's see here. And there it is.
Here we go. Down or just you encourage everyone who's deep in debt to stop. And so I've often
thought if I were to retire, maybe I would start a political movement, a new party in the country
where the whole purpose is to bring the banks to their knees and shut them down. Or just you
encourage everyone who's deep in debt to stop payment. How about 100 million people stop paying
their car loans, their mortgages and their credit cards in the same way that Donald Trump once said,
If you take a big enough loan from the bank, it's their problem.
It's their problem.
You're kind of in charge of the bank at that point.
I would think it'd be kind of cool to do a crush the bank's political party where you
just all of a sudden everyone stops payment at once.
And then, you know, then you sit down with Jamie Dimon and renegotiate.
What about that?
I kind of like that.
I would rather punish them incrementally and just let the demand for their horrible product
dry up over time.
Yeah.
And let that be reflected a little bit at a time in their stock price instead of one
morning in their stock price.
One morning in the stock price, all the banks are broke.
Feels a lot like 2008.
Here are a lot of downstream banks.
Pretty chaotic situation for the world.
All right, Jim.
So a lot of stuff going on here.
So let's, I mean, for those of you at home
who maybe aren't familiar with this bald-headed man right here,
that is Dave Ramsey.
Dave Ramsey, one of the most trusted economics voices in America today.
He's not necessarily the biggest fan of this plan.
So again, we have two sides of this plan. We have Tucker who's saying, you know, let's, this is like smash mouth. Let's make this happen. Let's, everyone just stop paying. Dave Ramsey says, you know what, I'd rather do this more incrementally. I'd rather, you know, just stop using their product. Just stop using debt. You know, stop using credit cards. Stop going into debt to get car loans, to get all these things.
uh jim what are your thoughts when you hear these do do either of these plans sound uh reasonable to
you what what are your thoughts uh well i mean defaulting on your debts is pretty un-christian
so is that to deal with even if the person that was lending you the money was doing something
not above board in the first place like creating the money out of thin air
you did agree to pay them back.
So I think if you're,
again, I'm not saying there aren't situations
where Christians can't do that,
but I think in a situation
where you're just trying to spite the other person
because you think the system's unfair,
I would lean more towards Dave Ramsey's side
of opting out of the system and not taking the debt.
But at the same time,
if you choose to live that way in our world,
and the way the fiat currency system is set up you're going to lose so we're incentivized to take
on debt because of course when we pay that debt back we're paying it back with dollars that are
worth less so yeah um i i don't know you know it's like you can sit there and point fingers
at the bankers and say they're the evil ones but the person that's taking the loan is also
benefiting off it, like benefiting from it as well. The people that are not benefiting
is everybody else that is not part of that transaction. So, you know, we've talked about
this before, but when you go take a loan to buy a new house, you know, I get to buy the house with
dollars that were printed out of thin air by the bank. So the bank wins because they get to charge
me interest on dollars that they didn't even have. I win because I get a hard asset in the house.
And everybody else loses because now those dollars flow into the economy and debase the currency and reduce the purchasing power of all of their savings.
And there's one less house available than would be available otherwise.
So it increases the demand, it increases the price for things like homes and cars and any one of a number of things.
yeah so i guess you could argue that taking as much debt as possible and buying bitcoin with it
in order to speed up the transition to the sound money standard is in some way somehow the ethical
thing to do but i think as dave ramsey points out when you try to accelerate things and make
them happen too fast it can result in a lot of pain and violence and as christians we don't want
to see that happen either. Yeah. And this is, man, this might be worth doing a whole episode on,
but there's, I mean, there's, there's the whole, I mean, going back to the very beginning of the,
of the Bible. Okay. Just thinking about this as a Christian, if you go right back to the very
beginning, I mean, what is, you could, you could honestly argue that the, the nature of the first
sin was trying to take something sooner than it was designed to be given. Like the, you know,
like the nature of the nature of the sin, like, and there's a lot of theologians who've,
you know, talked about that. I think we've talked about it on the pod a little bit.
You know, it's, it's not that God was never, it's not that Adam and Eve were never going to eat this
fruit. It's not, you know, when, when that God prohibited from them, prohibited them from eating,
it's just a matter of maturity. Like he wanted to basically, you know, for them to endure temptation
and then take the fruit and live forever. You know, that's, that's, you know, the tree of
knowledge of good and evil. God wants, or at least one of those, God wants them. He wants us to live
forever. That's kind of part of his plan. We know that because we're going to, you know, those of us
who know Jesus are going to live forever with him. And so after Adam and Eve took the fruit of the
knowledge of good and evil, then God said, lest they reach out and take the fruit that makes them
live forever in this state, I'm going to close them out from the garden. And so this is something
where this is always the temptation is to want to take something and to do whatever is necessary in
order to get something now rather than waiting and working for it or waiting and trusting.
So that is true. And I think it is true today. It's even more true in a situation where you do
have scarce money, which is the vast majority of human history. Where it gets tricky, to your point,
is the situation that we're in right now, where for the vast majority of people,
you know it it's it's basically not possible to get a house unless you're willing to go into a
into debt like significant amounts of debt um like that's now again that's even that's an
exaggeration you can get like a tax you know houses that have tax liens on them like there
are ways to go about this uh but it still is you know we've so normalized uh taking on debt to
to purchase homes and cars and all these kinds of things that, you know, I, I, that I'm very
sympathetic and, and I, yeah, I think it's, it's not as straightforward as it would be in, in other
situations. Um, also I would just say in the context of like the old Testament and Israel,
there wasn't this separation of generations, right? It was your family's property. And so
So there wasn't an idea of like, oh, I need to move out when I'm 18 and buy my own house.
It was just, you're going to take over your parents' property.
And if you were a woman, you were going to go live on another family's property as you got married to one of their sons.
And so I think what we see with like boomers, we love to sort of hate on boomers.
We love boomers.
Boomers are my parents.
So I love boomers.
but just this general idea of boomers buying second and third and fourth homes and rental
properties because, you know, again, they're victims of the same system. They know the
currency is debasing. They know that rates are ever going down. And so they just have to put
the dollars into a hard asset. Bitcoin didn't exist. Obviously gold was available, but, you know,
real estate generates cash flow and people kind of think that way because of warren buffett and so
they put their money in real estate it bids up the prices of real estate and then they're holding
all these properties that otherwise should have i don't want to say been transferred to the younger
generation but would have already just been inside of the family it's it's not about like transferring
from a boomer to a millennial it's just this is a family unit and it's more than just the nuclear
family. Yeah. And that, I mean, I mean, even what you just said is so revolutionary for
compared to how a lot of us are trained to think we, we think like individuals rather than think
like families and we act like individuals rather than acting like families and, and just not,
I mean, it really is insane when you think about it. And it's so foreign to how humanity is thought
for the vast majority of human history. Like you can look at something like Abraham or somebody
like Abraham, uh, for, I mean, when, when we read, I remember reading, uh, Genesis 15, uh,
either 12 or 15, where, where Abraham, God calls Abraham to go out by himself, you know,
leave everything behind, not knowing where he's going. I read that and I'm like, oh, okay. You
know, like, sure. God calls him out to go not knowing where he's going. But then I have kids.
I got married and have kids and, you know, moved across the world and was a, you know, was a
church planter, missionary. And now, and even now, even years beyond that, I read that passage
and I just think completely differently about it because like so much of your family,
life was a lot harder in many ways in that situation. And so going off on your own was
like an incredible risk. You're safer when you have other people around you. You're safer in the
sense of, you know, many hands making light work. You're, you know, you're, you're able to have more
people to till the fields, to, you know, ensure that you have food, to work in all these ways.
You guys diversify labor so that you can have multiple, you know, multiple types of things.
Versus if you're just roaming around a desert by yourself, like on paper, that is, that's a,
you know, you could argue that's a foolish thing to do. And you, again, there's a, there's a case
where, you know, there could be well-meaning people would push back on that and just, or push
back on you believing that God told you to do that because like, well, God told you to be fruitful
and multiply. Why would you leave your family behind? And so for them, it was so obvious
that obviously you'd stay around people. Obviously you wouldn't just leave your family. Obviously
you think as a family unit and not just an individual. And yet now it's kind of reversed
where because of, you know,
because of the amount of money that we have,
because the dollar,
especially speaking of Americans
and, you know, the British before them,
or before us,
and other places where you've got a stronger currency,
the EU and, you know, whatever,
like we have this level of financial independence
that does shape our identity.
It shapes how we think about ourselves.
And so it's like,
because we have this currency
that gives us a certain,
that affords us a level of independence
and quote unquote freedom,
we're just going to not question that and just, and just continue to live like that. And really
we're, we're, we're just kind of setting ourselves up for failure for the, for the longterm in a
whole host of ways. Yeah. I think it's an interesting question. I mean, back in ancient
Israel, most of their, most of their wealth was tied up in their land and their camels and their
livestock and maybe they had some of it in gold or silver, but it was pretty hard to
transport because it was dangerous.
Um, in the modern world, obviously we kind of have, uh, nation states and police forces
and militaries and things are relatively safe, especially if you're just like traveling inside
the United States and going across state borders, like you don't really have to worry about
highway robbery anymore.
um so there's this temptation especially with something like bitcoin where if you just i mean
this is like the hodler mindset where you rent and you don't own anything and you just you have
all of your wealth stored in this perfect money that can't be stolen from you and you can take
it across borders and you don't have to worry about robbers and uh you become unlanded or
ungrounded at that point you know it it almost opens up this temptation to be a perverse version
of the nomad that god was calling abraham to be and there's there's sort of lots of pitfalls to
living that way i mean i know the digital nomad kind of lifestyle is heralded as like this awesome
freedom inducing thing but i think what the digital digital nomad kind of uh what's it called
the nomad capitalist kind of crowd miss is that when you hop around like that,
you become anonymous and there no accountability anymore And there no deep family ties And like I mean you may have family relationships that you can keep going through technology and things like that but people don really know who you are
and what you're doing on a day-to-day basis and you can kind of get away with a lot of things that
you wouldn't otherwise be able to get away with not that you're not that as christians are wanting
to get away with things we're trying to stay in community we're trying to be held accountable um
and so there's a tension there bitcoin definitely is a gravity towards some negative aspects of that
yeah one of the things that comes to mind is that that's saying uh all it takes for evil to succeed
is for good men to do nothing and and there's a real sense in which yeah you can be tempted
and again we we love i think there absolutely is a place i mean we got like friend of ours
katie you know her katie the russian uh like katie helps people get second passports and a
lot of these people she's helping are Bitcoiners. And I think that makes sense and is wise to give
yourself optionality because again, like just given circumstances that can, you, you, you'll
want to give yourself flexibility if you can, if you can get it, especially if you're doing it
because of who your grandparents are, like, that's just a wise thing to do. Uh, and at the same time,
like a lot, you know, there, there's a, there's a downside to that too, where it's like, Hey,
if, if, you know, at the first sign of problems, first sign of trouble, you're like, all right,
I'm out, you know, then that's, that's one less strong, smart, wise, uh, you know, apparently,
you know, likely somebody who's well capitalized, uh, that's one less person who's able to help,
you know, keep the tipping point from being reached by, uh, you know, by some of these bad
actors. Uh, and so I think that, yeah, I think that the, the temptation is always to run,
uh, and there, you know, this, you could think about this from center. You could think about
this from, from evil or whatever. Uh, we, we have examples, you know, we had the pilgrims, they,
they fled, uh, and they fled, uh, this goes deep in our American, our American, uh, ethos. Like
they, they fled because they were experiencing, you know, religious persecution. Uh, and so it's
easy to just, if you have the means to just, you know, think of that first and be ready to,
you know, be ready just to kind of take off and want to be ready to take off with your money and
start over somewhere else. There's just a number of problems that number one, again, we're called
not to be cowards. And so like, if you're, if the only reason you're running is because you're
afraid, I mean, like, yeah, there's, there's a time to do that, I think, but there's also a time
to not do that. And there's a time to stay and fight. And a lot of the people fight in, you know,
can be translated into a variety of senses, but like there's in many cases, this, we see this
many such cases, the people who need to hear you need to stay are not the ones who want to stay
and vice versa. The ones who want to run, they actually need to hear, no, you need to,
you need to not just be selfish and not just be, you know, not just be looking for the easy thing.
You know, you, that shouldn't be what motivates you is I want ease and I want,
I don't want to potentially suffer. I don't want to do hard things that should not be what's
motivating you. And so I think that that's, yeah, I think that this is a big issue that especially
as things get more and more difficult, monetarily speaking, or economically speaking, and potentially
in other ways, depending on where you're living, this is something that is going to be a lot more
live of an issue. Yeah. I mean, just to circle back around to the original post and what Tucker
was saying, I don't think Bitcoin actually solves this problem. I think that even if we waved a
magic wand and had a sound money standard based on Bitcoin, there will still be people that have
capital that are willing to loan it to people that don't at a high interest rate so that they can
satisfy and gratify their desires right now. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that's a reality. And so that's,
you know, that's, yeah, this is a moral problem. You know, the fact that we have
usurious loans and we have 30% interest rates on credit cards and stuff like this,
it's because we've tolerated it. And like there's, we live in a, we live in a time of like very great,
you know, we, we pride ourselves about being so tolerant and yet tolerance, like tolerance,
while it can be, it can be a virtue, it can also be a vice because you see in, for example,
in the book of, I believe it's the book of Revelation. He's, I can't remember what chapter
this is, but he's talking about like, you tolerate, uh, it's either Jezebel or you, you tolerate this
woman. And, and Jesus is basically, you shouldn't tolerate this person. You're, you're acting like
this isn't that big of a deal by just letting this person be there and do this. I can't remember
what it is that they're doing, but like you're, you're tolerating her and that's actually shameful
to you. And so I think that this is one of these things where, I mean, on an economic level, on a,
on a number of levels. I think the problem is we're such moral midgets. Like we're such moral
and ethical midgets when it comes to like just understanding like ethics of money production,
when it comes to understanding a whole host of issues, even just historically, historically,
the Christians, uh, you know, like Christians have, have seen the consequences of these things
and they follow, you know, the second and third order effects. And, uh, and don't just look at
the surface and be like, oh, this doesn't seem like a big deal. I think that again, we're,
you're going to reap what we sow. We're going to reap what we sow. If we just, if we just don't
take the time and to learn and understand that what God thinks and just the downstream consequences,
practical consequences of some of these things like high, high interest and, you know, usury
and a bunch of these other things. Yeah. You're going to get what you, you're going to get what
you get, what you subsidize. If you just allow it to be there, it's going to continue to grow.
and then it's going to get worse and worse.
And then it's going to be to the point where it's too,
you know, you're not going to know really what to do about it.
It's going to be a lot harder to do something about it.
I think it's really easy to point the finger at the banker
or the lender and say,
oh, you're the evil one
because you're charging somebody a high interest rate.
But there's two sides of that transaction
and the borrower is also agreeing to pay that interest rate
because they have a high time preference
to get something that they shouldn't be getting otherwise.
And so I think what's maybe a more interesting conundrum here is do you put laws around that to not allow that transaction to occur even though there's two willing parties?
Yeah.
And again, I think some of this, a lot of this comes down to, it comes down to just the structures of society, right?
It comes out of like what, like there's ethical constraints that are designed.
So like if you had, I mean, you could say the same thing about like any, any ethical constraint.
So listen, uh, contract killing.
Listen, you have two, you have two, uh, equal participants or, you know, eager participants
on either side of this.
This person is willing to take money for a service.
This person is willing to give them money for a service.
It's like, okay, well, yeah, that's true.
But there's, there's more to it than that.
And so I think like, that's, that's kind of what we, we got to get down to is like, what
is the actual moral implications and like ethical issues how do we define what we're going to allow
what we're not going to allow what's good like how do we how do we understand this is this just
like we're just doing this uh this is this is where i would push back on the caricature of
christian nationalism that i have in my mind um you know the christian nationalists would say of
course you should have a law against usury uh and you know as a free market guy i'm like something
doesn't sit right with me on that um but as a christian i'm like shouldn't we just build up
strong family structures and support networks and not have these arbitrary distinctions like you have
to move out when you're 18 and go earn everything on your own and become a self-made man otherwise
you aren't worth anything and like put basically we're we're raising whole generations of people
that are want to be high time preference have no money available get hit by advertising all the
time that says they need to wear certain things or whatever. And then it's like, what do you,
what do you think they're going to do? So it's like, I don't know. It seems like we should just
go back to the basics and focus on the moral fabric of society and families and not try to
just like put a bandaid on top of it. You know, that's like a law from the Christian nationalism.
Yeah. Well, and this is, and this is where this gets tricky, right? Is, is because you're always
going to have people who are going to focus on one side or the other, right? It's like the,
I can't remember which episode this was that we were talking about.
Oh, I think it was on Tuesday.
But it was this girl who's talking about how hard things are economically.
And she's listing out a number of different issues.
There's some that are governmental policy issues.
So there's some that are just her having to work hard.
Like some of these things.
And the reality is, yes, the reality is that there's things on different levels that need to happen.
and no one's saying that, oh, it's all government stuff
or it's all moral stuff.
We're saying, no, these things are both necessary.
Like you need, it's like, you know,
like you need a mom and a dad.
You can sit here and you can point out and say,
oh, look, you know, we need a mom
because moms do this and this and this.
And it's like, and we need a dad.
And you can, we need dads because dads do this, this, this.
It's like, depending on who you're talking to,
like the different stories play better.
If you're talking to Bitcoiners, it's like, yeah,
that's the money that's the problem and down with the government.
And they'll be like,
yeah,
you know,
or if you're Tucker,
it's like the bankers are evil.
We need to like take the bankers down,
you know?
Yes,
exactly.
And so that's kind of where,
where you get it.
It's like,
honestly,
we can have,
it's just like the other day when we were talking about this,
this girl and her issues,
it's like,
uh,
I can't remember what the,
I think it's multi-partite.
I can't remember where it was.
Like you can have a,
you can have a war that's being fought on three fronts at the same time.
Right.
Like if you're,
if you're on, you can be on like a, if you're, if you're fighting on a part of a piece of land,
that's on the sea, okay. You can have a naval battle in front of you. You can have a land
battle and you can have these other things. And you don't, you don't know you, it wouldn't make
any sense to go, Hey, we need to focus on the land battle, you know? And you'd be like, no,
we, yes, we do. But we also need to fight on these things. And so we don't need to just
minimize the importance of fighting on these other fronts because we particularly are,
individually focused as far as it relates on us as an individual or something. If you're the one
who's sitting on the, or you're in a boat on the ocean and you're fighting, well then yeah,
you should be focused on the ocean side of things. And if there's somebody else who's on the land,
well then yeah, they should be fighting on the land. You shouldn't be frustrated with them for
focusing on the battle that's on the land. And so I think it's just figuring out where am I?
realistically, I only have a certain amount of hours in the day. I have certain skills. I have
certain things, abilities that make me useful in one of these areas. And how can I use my voice
and use my life to talk about these issues in a way that will hopefully move the needle
to a real degree? But again, the reality is we can't make these things happen on our own,
But we should still act in a way that just takes into account that our actions do have consequences and we can raise issues and move the needle.
That's totally possible.
So the reason why—
What we're both saying is we're not advocating an anarchist, Mr. Robot-style take-the-system-down behavior that Tucker is talking about.
but if it did happen at the same time, this is what I, this is what I say is like, listen, I,
I would understand if it did. And if it did, again, this is, this is just one of those things
where these kinds of things happen. Like this is, it's not necessarily the greatest way,
you know, but again, things, bad things happen. Like, this is the reality. Like the people,
you know, barring, barring the whole world coming to Jesus and then like coming to Jesus and basically
being, all right, we're going to do this. The, the, the bankers repent. And then all of the people
repent for taking out loans and you know like all these barring that happening like you're gonna
you're going to get some mixture of the two i'm just saying it doesn't take us to do it we know
the the government's just going to print money and pay back their loans with worthless dollars
which is effectively the same thing as not paying back the loans and so all we have to do is just
sit here and what tucker is saying is going to happen yeah like i mean that's a possibility the
other but then you get something like the french revolution right you get like the french revolution
where the people literally just go take down
and start cutting off heads.
And again, that ends poorly.
But so again, if you're looking historically,
that's, you see that-
It's interesting though, you know, the French government,
the aristocrats didn't have F-35s and nukes.
So it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.
It's true.
But all of those, yeah, all of those nukes
are piloted by people who, you know,
aren't necessarily aristocrats either though.
So it's-
They've all been vibe coded.
That's true.
You can do it with drones now.
That's right.
The point is, as Christians, I think we should try to push for things that bring about peaceful revolutions.
Yes.
All things being equal.
All things being equal, absolutely.
The reason why we came up with this Tucker tweet, the reason why we found it is because we had, there's a guy, he's the founder of Gab.
His name is Andrew Torba.
He basically tweeted this yesterday.
yesterday today uh can't stop thinking about tucker's idea for millions of people to just
stop paying their usury cards which are he's referring to credit cards as usury cards uh
love that turn of phrase uh what would happen if millions of us did this and then this other guy
uh oh shoot i just did it hold on just went back let's try that so there we go after 2008 i
deliberately chose the default on all my credit cards i was sued civilly and didn't show up so
there were default judgments. For some complicated reasons, I didn't declare bankruptcy. A couple
years later, I defaulted on my house, got out of all of it, including the mortgage, just by being
a 1099 contractor year after year and never answering my phone. My credit score is now 800.
Credit is the sucker's game. Don't be a sucker. And so this is, again, one of these side of things
where it's just like, yeah, I mean, some of you probably have heard the phrase turnabout is fair
play, where it's just basically like, hey, if politically you open up this door, like
if you're going to go after your political opponents for something, you know, for something
that's illegitimate, well, then you shouldn't be surprised that when you lose power and
somebody else gets in there, that when, you know, your enemy uses these same things against
you.
And obviously, I'm not saying that this is some sort of, you know, panacea.
I'm not saying this is a great thing that this happens, but it certainly is understandable.
Uh, and so again, if you have a government where they're literally just stealing from
their, from their citizens by creating money out of thin air and, you know, you have banks
that are giving out credit cards where, you know, they're literally creating the money
out of thin air.
There's no actual production costs.
There's no risk or very little risk on their part.
And, and then they're just taking these fat, uh, interest payments for people who aren't
able to pay because they're poor.
And as a result of decades of these policies happening, it gets worse and worse and worse and harder and harder and harder.
It shouldn't surprise us to see people who do the calculus and decide to go a slightly less sanctified version of the Hebrew midwives on this situation where they're just like, hey, you know, you're going to try to use us.
Well, I'm going to use you, government.
I'm going to use you, banks, before you can use me.
and so yeah
I think this is the kind of
unfortunate situation
that we're going to find ourselves
in more and more
it's going to tempt people
to
yeah
it's going to tempt people
to make decisions like this one
and
I just
I think what's interesting here
is that
the interesting
thing to me
is that
when you have no cash flow
and you have no assets
essentially you're broke as a joke
credit
using credit
is a sucker's game
but when you have a lot of assets and you have a lot of cash flow not using credit is the sucker's
game yeah yes you know like even at seven percent interest mortgage rates which are super high
okay like if you just own your house outright and you can instead just go mortgage it at a seven
interest rate i mean there's two different things going on here right like if you have to buy
the house today at the current value let say it like valued at or something like that Well the person that owns it is probably in it at a much lower cost basis so they don they don actually have to take out as big of a loan they could just
take out a loan for like half of the value of the house yeah that's what the maybe that's what the
value of the house actually should be at seven percent interest rates right yeah and then that
would equal like whatever the the rent payment would normally be for that house and then just
go put all the rest of the money in bitcoin and you're making this right between seven percent and
50%. And if you don't do that, it's like you're lighting money on fire.
Yeah. And again, like that's, it's like, this is, this is what I'm saying is like,
there's a real sense in which it, in a, like in a vacuum, is it good to do that?
Like all things being equal, probably not. But given the situation that you're in,
is that a, is that as prudent thing to do? Is that, is that like a shrewd thing to do?
if the alternative is, you know, like if the alternative is.
Are you saying in a vacuum, like if we were already on a Bitcoin standard, you owned your
house outright, would it be a good thing to do to lever up your house in order to buy Bitcoin?
What, what, yeah, no, what I'm saying is I'm saying, yeah, if we were on a hard money standard,
then yes, to do that would be, it would be a worse situation. Uh, that, that actually I would
be, I would have, I wouldn't, I don't think that that would be, I think that would be a lot more
difficult to defend. Only because Bitcoin's not appreciating anymore? Yes. Or something. Yeah.
Like, yeah, I just think, I think that like, and I guess the kind of the illustration that I would
give of this is there are situations, numerous of them in scripture where the thing that is the
right thing to do under almost all circumstances, you see the people of God do exactly the opposite
thing. And it's when the wicked try to weaponize the consciences and try to weaponize truth
in order for their own benefit and not for the good of people and not for the glory of God.
So you have the Pharisees do this repeatedly with Jesus, is they try to trick him and trap him
by getting him to answer one of two ways.
So Moses tells us to stone this woman.
What do you say?
And so they're thinking,
if Jesus is either gonna answer,
yes, I agree, stone this woman
who you found in adultery,
which the question is,
how did you find her in the middle of adultery
and know to bring her here?
Like, is that just perfect timing
or did you just do this
because you're willing to put a woman to death
in order to put Jesus to death?
Is that really what's going on here?
And so I think that's the bigger issue. And that's kind of where the hesitation comes from my part. Because again, I think that it is so immoral. The systemic wrong, the system is so wrong and immoral at this point that it's like at some point resisting the system might require you or eventually will require you to do something that wouldn't be advisable.
wouldn't be wise, wouldn't be prudent in other situations. Another example would be, I don't know
if you guys remember the few years ago, there's a guy named David Daladin who basically lied about
being somebody who was working for, I believe like an abortion or like some sort of medical
facility that was trying to buy baby body parts from Planned Parenthood. He basically lied and
said, Hey, I'm, I'm, I work for this company. I want to buy baby body parts from you and gets all
these people films them on tape of them saying, Oh yeah, we, we, you know, we, we rip heads off.
We rip out little hearts. We rip off little feet. Oh, you know what we could do? Uh, we could
actually do the abortion in such a way that we leave, uh, we leave the brain tissue intact
because David, this guy lied and said, Hey, you know, if you can give us intact brain matter,
or we'll give you an intact whole head.
Like we can give you more money.
And they're like, oh, done.
Like we can do that super easily.
And so David is lying,
which the scriptures say, don't bear false witness.
Like this is clearly something you shouldn't do.
And yet David is lying to catch absolute barbarous monsters
on tape confessing of what they're doing.
So is that okay for David to lie about that?
And I would say 100% and twice on Sunday.
Like, absolutely. It's right for David to do that. And I would, I would argue that's not even lying
because you're like a lie implicit in the lies that you're using this information to dishonor
God into, to harm your fellow, you know, somebody else made in the image of God. That's not what
David is doing. So I don't think that's actually a lie, you know, in anyhow. But again, my point is
when you get into situations where the wicked are doing wicked things, and especially where you get
a situation where there's institutionalized wickedness, where what's wicked is actually
being praised and defended and called good, well, then the righteous actually ought to be willing
to. It's actually your willingness to do something that is looked on as wrong is actually,
at some points, evidence that you actually fear God rather than just fearing these wicked people.
and and so that's kind of what that's why i'm hesitant when i when i think about this specific
issue is because like i really do think there there there will come a point at which and i
don't know what that point is this is where i get you know where i do think there's a point where
you're like your conscience there there's there there is room for people to follow their
consciences in doing something not to just not just for your own personal benefit like this guy
seems to be doing. But as like a conscience born kind of thing of what Tucker and what Andrew were
talking about, we're like conscience bound for the sake, for the big picture sake of what's going on.
I can, I have no problem with, with people being willing to do this and being willing to take the
consequences. Like that's the other side of this, because if you're not paying your taxes or if you
do something like this, there's no good chance they can throw you in jail. You know? So it's not.
Maybe I'd articulate it
with a little bit of a different example
going back to like taking a loan
on a house that you own outright.
If you have one person,
let's say you've got two people,
they both own the same house outright.
One of them takes out a loan
against it to buy Bitcoin
because they want to get rich quick.
And the other one takes out a loan
against it to buy Bitcoin
because they want to bring about
the peaceful revolution.
Correct.
They both have the cash flow
to service the loan,
so they're not doing anything crazy.
Yes.
You know, I'd argue that
even though they're doing the same exact thing,
it's the intention of their heart that's different
and one of them's sending and the other one isn't.
Correct.
I 100% agree.
Like why you're,
so your motivation isn't the only thing that matters.
Like the actual outcome,
like it actually does matter,
but it's not,
it's not that it,
like it,
yeah,
your motivation,
it does matter,
but it's not the only factor.
And the end result is not,
it does matter,
but it's not the only factor.
And so that's where,
again,
we want,
We want to be thoughtful because, again, you see this all throughout the scriptures, the wicked weaponize, weaponize truth or weaponize even like the written word.
Like they weaponize, like in the case of the Pharisees, they weaponize something that God said in order to serve their own agendas and their own interests.
and we see repeatedly examples of God's people
not being willing to do that,
not bowing the knee to these,
not agreeing with these guys
that the world can just work this way
and that God is pleased based on a rigid interpretation
or like a rigid wording of these things.
That's just not how God actually works.
And so I think that we need to be,
again, it's certainly a dangerous area
because then it can get you to the point
where you think you're justified
in doing something like murdering abortion clinics
or whatever.
There are things where it's not something
to be entered into lightly.
It's not something to be,
and this would be another thing is,
if you're trying to think through some of these things,
I would involve other people,
other wise people in your life
because that's another way.
Again, in an abundance of counselors, there's safety.
If you're out there just vibe living
and vibe resisting and just try to do this on your own. Again, I just think it's a dangerous
path. There are resources, right? The great thing about being a Christian with 2,000 years
of hindsight is we can look and see Christians who've been in worse situations than we'll ever
be in and how they responded in different situations. And there's people on both sides
of these issues. There's people who resisted and lied and God, you know, blessed them. And then
there's other people who, you know, who, you know, suffered and God honored them and, you know,
different things happened. So again, this is not designed to give a clear thing one way or the
other, because that's not how wisdom works. Wisdom needs more information. It needs context
and it needs to be applied skillfully. So just something to think about there.
Um, let's keep moving on here, Jim.
This is another one.
I'll, uh, let's see.
That's just the first one.
The first two.
We did the first two.
It's okay.
Yeah, we, we won't, we don't, this won't be going out for a ton longer, but, um, so
Darth, Darth Powell, Vlad the inflator, uh, love, love the handle, love the name here.
Okay.
So he shared this and this made us all rejoice going forward.
We'll have more homes coming to market due to boomer deaths than households being formed
to buy them. Yes, that is without new construction. Okay. So new household formations from 2025 to
2030, 4.3 million average per year, 860,000. When you get up to homes from deaths, you're talking
7.5 to 8 million per month, right? Is that what I'm saying? Annual average. Yeah. Yeah. So total
annual average, 1.5 to 1.6 million per year. And then new homes built, you're talking 6 to 8
million so you're going to equal homes from deaths and new homes built that is bonkers uh
absolutely insane jim what are your thoughts uh well first of all this account is a little bit
spicy he likes to use a lot of foul language so i wouldn't say we're uh 100 endorsing following
him but oh i didn't even know that but yeah he does post him for interesting data he clearly has
a bent he wants to prove that real estate's going to become demonetized which i generally agree with
i'm not sure if he's like into bitcoin i haven't seen him post about bitcoin necessarily um but
his big shtick is always just that there is no housing shortage in fact there's a glut of housing
and the only reason we feel like there's a housing shortage is because people have
applied a monetary premium to real estate because they're trying to escape inflation
so i think that this is really just another side of the same coin that as bitcoiners we already know
in the long run we know that real estate's going to become demonetized and mega trends like boomers
dying off are only going to accelerate that. And so at least that's my opinion. I mean,
obviously who knows what's going to happen in the future, but, um, you know, I think what's
the difficult thing is that, uh, that hasn't happened yet and we're living life right now
and we need to have houses. And so the question is, what's the prudent thing to do? Like,
is the prudent thing to continue renting and being a renter or is the prudent thing to put down roots
and buy a house and don't worry about what's going to happen in the future and yeah you know what if
you buy a house now and it's worth half what it was when you bought it 10 years from now it's like
well what can you do like what like what are we trying to the longer arc of history here like what
are we trying to encourage people with are we trying to encourage people to just sell everything
including their chairs and buy Bitcoin only?
Or are we encouraging people to be good family men
and provide housing for their wife and children
that they feel like they can take ownership of
and plant gardens and vineyards and do cool things with?
Yeah, and again, I think all of these things,
whatever you're doing, it should be a means to an end.
And so that's what I think.
Hold on, give me one second here.
My phone is about to die and I'm trying to plug this in.
But yeah, I think that's how I just think about these things
is like it's a means to an end.
So buying Bitcoin, I don't buy Bitcoin for Bitcoin's sake.
I don't just buy Bitcoin to accumulate tons of it and just be able to be super wealthy.
That's not the goal.
Oh, come on.
The goal is to be able to do things that actually have to do with life.
I want to have a home.
I want to be able to...
Can you still see me, Jim?
Yeah.
I want to have a home.
I want to live in a home.
uh i want to do these things and again being willing to be patient and wait i think there's
wisdom and there's just wisdom in that that's that's one of the hardest things to do is to
is to be patient and wait um you know it's interesting when you talk about this idea of like
buying bitcoin to not do anything with it yeah people are doing the same thing with real estate
right now they're just buying it to not i mean they'll rent it out or something maybe but like
They're really just buying it for the appreciation, aka the inflation hedge.
And so, I don't know.
To me, there feels like something qualitatively different between monetizing real estate versus monetizing Bitcoin.
Because at least when you monetize Bitcoin, you're not denying a roof over somebody's head.
Correct.
Again, that's why I legitimately thank God for Bitcoin.
Because, again, if you take Bitcoin out of the equation, this problem just gets exacerbated.
It just gets exacerbated where it gets higher and higher. And the other outlet would be something like gold. And I think that's what you have seen happen in past empires and past points is that you do get a remodetization of gold.
And so, again, it's not that it's not possible.
It's not that it couldn't happen.
But, again, there's still, there's downsides to gold.
There's, you know, yeah, I just think it's easier for governments to interact with gold
and accumulate large amounts of gold and lock them off from people
just because of the nature and the physicality of gold.
The amazing thing about Bitcoin is because it's not physical and because it's not tangible, it actually, and because you can interact with it on something like a phone or a piece of technology like that, like there's, you just give every normal person the ability to have, you know, these scarce bearer assets in a way that you can't tell that they have them.
And so I'm just super grateful. It just seems such like such a timely, like a timely thing for something like Bitcoin that operates under the constraints that Bitcoin does.
And that has, you know, that affords people freedoms that Bitcoin does to be to come around and be coming into its own right as, you know, this this real estate thing is winding down and, you know, fiat currencies are breaking down.
Like it is, I just, yeah, it's just pretty providential, incredible timing.
I think of the clip from Pirates of the Caribbean where the boat is like sinking right as it comes up to the dock.
And like Johnny Depp just kind of steps off the sinking boat right onto the dock.
And he's just good to go.
Like that's, I think for a lot of us, you know, who are Bitcoiners, that's kind of how we see this.
We're like, hey, man, thank God for Bitcoin.
We have this thing right here when we need it most. People who don't have homes, like in a situation, I'm a millennial who can't buy a home at this point, just given different constraints. But I can buy Bitcoin and have been buying Bitcoin. And all things, if nothing else changes in my life, then Bitcoin will be the reason why I'm able to get a home.
And so I just think yeah the other thing the other side of this that we didn even talk about in terms of the homes is I mean this is like an argument for good fiscal financial planning
Because like a lot of these homes, like if you don't set up your affairs right, you know, these homes, they'll either, you know, give your kids, you know, if it's a boomer dying, give their kids like a giant tax bill.
Or if they're doing it, if they set it up really horribly, then like these houses can go straight to the bank.
you can get hit with, you know, a number of, there can be just a number of negative consequences of
these things. And so, um, I think positioning yourself, I think it would be wise, uh, you know,
if you don't have the, if you're kind of on the fence, um, I would be praying and looking for,
you know, looking for a deal. Cause there's always deals to be found. That's, that's another reality
that, uh, when we're talking to Matt Purvis from, uh, one of the Island boys, he just, he just keeps
getting presented with all these incredible deals just because of different circumstances in people's
lives. And so those will always exist. And so just keeping your eyes peeled for things like that
is smart. But then even if you're not in a situation where you can find one of those,
or if you're still on the fence, I think this is encouraging on some degree. I think it should be
the fact that there's new surplus of inventory coming on the market, especially at a time
when BlackRock and a lot of these other guys who have been helping prop up and exacerbate the
the real estate bubble are finding a new thing for them to buy, which is Bitcoin.
And so I think that's another Bitcoin, not just for our own benefit, or not just for us being able
to benefit directly from it, but also from somebody like BlackRock, which is helping to
bring down and demonetize real estate even faster. I think that's another reason why I'm
grateful for Bitcoin. I agree, but I also just push back on the whole framing of this in general.
Like, again, this pits the generations against each other and it's all individualistic and it's about, you know, boomers and millennials and how this is going from one generation to the next.
And it's like, these should just, all these, all this property should just be within the family.
Yeah.
And I don't even know if I agree that it should be viewed as like a inheritance.
I mean, it is an inheritance at some level, but when you think about like the property just staying in the family for multiple generations.
Yeah.
it's, I think the way people think about inheritance these days is it's all about me
and like what I'm getting, you know, from my parents or something and how I'm going to spend
it on a lavish lifestyle for myself. And it's like, no, like this is my family's property.
I'm currently using it for a period of time. And then at which point when I die,
it'll get passed on and then so on and so forth. Yeah. Yeah. And again, that's,
you're absolutely right. Like you're absolutely right. And yet there are,
I mean, like there's tons of people who, again, this is the shameful thing and the hard thing is like there's people who just have awful family situations and who just don't have families who, they don't have in some ways like the luxury of, you know.
I'm just like describing the ideal.
I don't think there's necessarily a way to like instantaneously get back to it.
It's going to take like multiple generations to like heal and get back to that.
Yes, exactly.
I think that exactly. I think what you're describing is, hey, if you're stuck in this
situation and you find yourself with a horrible, horrible family situation, you're young, like you
can appreciate, hey, look at the downstream consequence of this. Like you can be the catalyst
for change for your family, because maybe where your family didn't think about these things,
your parents, your grandparents or whatever, like maybe at least probably it's probably not your
grandparents because they probably were thinking about these things. But if your parents weren't
thinking about these things, hey, now you can see the consequences and you can try to position
yourself and your family and whatever to be able to, you know, change that story, you know, for
your own kids. And, and you're going to break the cycle, you know, you're going to be the original,
you're going to be the new patriarch and it's going to start from you. You know, you're going
to set the, you're going to set the tone for 10 generations. Yeah. And again, it's, it's easy for,
for us to think about that, you know, in terms of Bitcoin, but that's also true in a hundred other
things. There's also true, I mean, just in terms of a hundred other ways that, and decisions that
families have to make, you know, like you can be, you can change the trajectory of your family
lineage by choosing to do different things than, you know, you did when you were younger,
the past generations of your families have. All right. Do we have time for one more or we need
to lay on this thing? Let me see here. I think we got time for one more. I mean, here we go. Let's
this is i guess to that end i mean we could talk about we just don't have a lot of information yet
white house confirming president trump wants to eliminate capital gains for de minimis
transaction transactions like six hundred dollars and under we just have a lot of questions still
about does that mean six hundred dollars over the course of a year is that six hundred dollar
transactions um i feel like this is one of those things that it plays well in a soundbite but
the reality is that people are already doing this.
You know, like people are already zapping sats to each other,
not reporting, and the IRS isn't following up on it
because they don't have the manpower.
So it's just kind of like they're just making it official
what's already happening.
Yeah.
And even if they have the manpower, like which they don't,
it's like, what's the benefit?
You're talking, oh, I'm going to go chase down a 10 cent transaction.
It just doesn't make sense.
It's just not worth it to do.
But again, yeah, it looks cool.
So again, for something like, I mean, a $600 transaction, that's like a decent sized transaction.
I think it's a step in the right direction.
Obviously, if it was the counter argument, like the government was coming out and saying, no, we're going to go after small transactions.
We're coming after you and we're going to use AI to do it because we don't have the manpower to do it.
It's like, OK, that I mean, that's like the alternate universe we'd be living in if Kamala got elected and like Elizabeth Warren and her goons were hunting us down with AI.
Yeah, yeah, correct.
um what what was the other what's the other thing where it's like something where like the tax limit
was set at a certain number but it it never got adjusted for inflation and so it's the same super
tiny number and it should be way higher i can't think of what this is probably the capital gains
tax yes yeah it's like 10 what's the what's the number on that i think it's like 400
something thousand there's also a number on real estate sales how much uh if you sell your primary
residents, how much of it you can take up tax-free on that. Yeah. Yeah. There's something like,
I mean, again, something like that would actually be far more effective. Or if you just inflation
adjusted some of these really old laws, and I mean, that would be a lot more meaningful. That's
probably why they won't do it. But it would have humongous effects and be a blessing to a lot of
people. But we'll finish with this one. This is another, this is on the family front, something
to take with you if you have kids or if you don't have kids and you're, you know, you're,
you're coming up to maybe have kids. Uh, this guy is, uh, the warrior poet society is this guy's
name. Uh, he has like a YouTube channel and a whole bunch of other stuff. He's a Christian guy
used to be in the, in the army, I think. Uh, but he, he had this video, this guy, Antonio shared it.
Uh, and it's a real, don't be surprised when you send your kids off to Caesar and they come back as
romans that's it that's it man you're wondering why everyone's gone woke and is has no idea
what bathroom to use anymore just if like what happened to our kids i'm like well you gave them
the government for for their entire childhood you saw them at dinner and you attended their
sporting events but the government raised your kids and social media helped and video games or
whatever but you saw them every day but you didn't raise them you didn't log enough hours each day
to counteract all the poison and time wasting and ideological propagandistic crap that they were
getting fed year after year after year and so millennial generation and now gen z has gone woke
and we feel like, oh, what happened to my daughter?
We raised them better than that.
No, I mean this in love,
but you didn't raise them at all.
That hurts to say,
because I know it hurts people to hear.
And we trusted that they were being taught
good information that wasn't undermining our values.
But there's been a psyop in play for decades,
which is undermining our values
in waging war against the family unit.
Don't be surprised.
And so, yeah, again, this can sound extreme or whatever,
but I just honestly think this is the case.
Like, we just, on so many levels,
I mean, we're just trusting that this,
I mean, I know, yeah, we can speak from personal experience.
Like, I grew up going to public school
and, you know, that's because there's a number of reasons.
Like, economically, it would have been very difficult
to go to a private school.
uh, you know, public school, both, you know, both my parents went to public school and, and like
a lot of us had parents who their experience of public school was one thing. And they're expecting
that the experience that we're going to have is something similar. And yet even I like early days
of the internet, you know, graduated, you know, in the early aughts, that kind of stuff. Uh,
just, I mean, I, my mother would be, she's not going to watch this, but my mother would be
absolutely mortified. I could share her 50 things that happened in my four years of high school
alone that my mother probably would have pulled me out of the school if she had known them
happening. And that's just the reality. It is the grace of God. It is the grace of God that my life
looks only as horrible as it actually does rather than far worse. Just given the reality of what the
diet was on a pretty regular basis for all of my formative years in high school and middle and high
school. And so I think that just, you know, thinking, thinking carefully and thinking
realistically, taking an assessment of the, you know, of the time of where you're, who you're
entrusting your children's minds to and how much time you actually are having and actually forming
and having good conversations with them is something that we could all use more of.
this is a really tricky one right yeah yep because a lot of people are in a lot of different
situations yes 100 again we're we're talking about like the ideal scenario uh tim has some
family in from california and they were just saying that having three kids is like the ultimate flex
because nobody has money to have three kids in california yeah um yeah and so like the ultimate
it flex on top of that is homeschooling your kids.
Yes.
A hundred percent.
Because you're like, oh, I've got so much time and money that I can just, you know,
the wife and the husband can theoretically both not work as much to spend the time on
that.
And people are in the Fiat matrix rat race and you tell them this stuff and it's like,
there's no hope.
There's no way.
Like they, they, they have, and the system is set up that way.
Like Caesar is meant to be the babysitter.
Correct.
Just all this stuff we've been talking about, about splitting the generations apart and hyper individualism.
And it's all designed, it all works together to separate us from each other, you know, and give them their tendrils into people's minds so that they can manipulate them.
You know, I'm not saying there's like some evil cabal of people that like planned this all from the beginning and knew that fiat was going to make it easier.
but at the end of the day
this is the emergent behavior
the emergent phenomenon
that's happening with this system
with all the little individual decisions
that all the administrators make
and all the politicians make
because they have the lever at their disposal
they can just print the money
and make the program
and oh yeah I'm Michelle Obama
and we're going to pay for more meals at school
so the kids can stay after school
and eat dinner
and you know on paper it sounds great
because it's like yeah
they live in the inner city
and it's a single mother
and she can't afford to pay
for dinner and so the kid's gonna get something that's maybe quasi nutritious like as opposed to
not eating at all and so it's like yeah any one little thing that you look at is like
altruistic but then you add them all together it's sinister and disgusting yeah and and that
is the tricky thing right is like we we live in a culture this would be a whole nother episode too
of like we argue like from exceptions we use exceptions to negate rules and so like all of
is like both of both you and I just did this on two different subjects. It's like, this is true,
but we also want to be sensitive to the fact that there's people who are in difficult situations
or who, you know, it's like, correct. Like if you're in, if you're in one of these situations
where, you know, like this is difficult, I will say this, like the church that we, the church
that we go to is, uh, not as informally connected to a Christian school. And so basically what
they've said is, Hey, if you're a part, if you're a member of the church and you're not able to
afford a private school, if at all possible, we will like, our church will help pay for you.
Like we'll either pay for it outright or we'll help, or we'll do something like that. And so like,
if you're somebody who's listening to this, I can't imagine we have a bunch of single moms
or something like, but maybe like there are people who are out there who, who like recognize
the difficulty of this, you know, in terms of like the monetary side of this or the economic
side of this, the challenges that are there. And there are lots of people who are willing to kind
of do something about this. So if you're somebody who's like, you're lamenting being in a public
school situation, you're like, I don't want my kids, but I don't see any other way. Again, I would
just, you know, encourage just to kind of look out and go have a conversation with, you know, if
there's a local, you know, classical Christian school, or, you know, if you're thinking about
I don't know what's going on. Because I mean, just the reality is, yes, like the reality is life is
going to be hard. Like life is hard no matter what side you come down on. And so the consequences
of dealing with, like, you're either going to pay on the front end or on the back end. And so
the consequences of having your kid, you know, be totally shaped from soup to nuts by, you know,
especially if you're a Christian, soup to nuts by a government that hates you and, you know,
that completely makes fun of, you know, your beliefs and all this kind of stuff. Well, that's
going to be a, I mean, you're talking the rest of your life. You're going to, I mean, the rest of
your life in terms of these kids who, you know, you're going to be, who are largely for at least
a chunk of your life, largely going to be responsible for taking care of you. Um, and so,
yeah, it is just one of these things where you want to be, you want to be saying, you don't want
to be, you know, flipping out on people because they make a decision. Uh, and yet you, you also
at the same time want to take, take account for just what's going on and how different it is,
then maybe it's not just a situation that your parents grew up in or that you grew up in.
It's, I mean, just.
There's just landmines.
There's landmines here.
If you're talking to a well-meaning Christian that sends their children to Caesar
and you use this terminology and they don't think of it that way,
they can be highly offended.
Yep.
So I wouldn't necessarily start by saying, hey, you're sending your kids to Caesar.
I think you can eventually maybe help them get there, but like you may not want to start there.
And then on the other side, he may be talking to somebody that says, yeah, I realize I'm sending them to Caesar, but what choice do I have?
And there needs to be a sensitivity there too, because it's the same thing when you're like, oh, you should be on Bitcoin.
It's like, well, that's great, but I don't have any money.
In fact, I have worse than money.
I have like 30% interest that I'm paying on my credit cards.
Correct.
And so it's like, yeah, we got to get you out of debt before you have money to save that you could put in Bitcoin.
We have to send you to Dave Ramsey first.
Is that what you're saying, Jim?
Yeah.
We got to send you to Dave Ramsey just to get back to zero.
Then once you're at zero, throw Dave Ramsey away and come talk to us.
Get rid of Dave Ramsey.
I think that's a good place to close.
Jim, grateful for you, man.
Again, hopefully we'll have Ash and Tim back next week.
Again, for those of you who may be listening to this, we did.
we were able to fund the Orange Umbrella Kickstarter.
We were overfunded by 2,000 bucks.
So grateful for all of you who helped support that.
I'm still getting updates from our artists.
She's getting closer and closer.
So we'll be giving updates on that
and looking forward to getting that out in the world.
We are grateful for you guys.
Episode 21 in the books.
Grateful for you.
We'll see you in the next episode of the To the Unknown pod.
We'll see you next time.