Welcome back to episode 16 of To The Unknown Pod.
My name is Jordan Bush.
I am the executive director of TGFB Media.
And today we are joined by two thirds of the Island Boys, who I will allow to introduce
themselves before I introduce our guest.
What's up, Jordan?
I'm Oshawa Hawthorne.
I live in Portland, Oregon with my family.
uh eight kids happy dad and i lead a small organization called brilliance labs my name
is matt purvis a pastor long time in hawaii on the big island hence the name island boys
in the small village of pahoa a new age mecca and also run businesses and did other stuff
and uh yeah so basically that that's kind of who we are we're missing ryan ryan is on a vacation
with his family, which we allow him to do every so often. Again, we just tell him not to make a
habit of it, and then we go from there. Today, I just want to introduce our guest. We are joined,
we are super grateful to have with us Matthew Mastronardi, who will kind of unpack why he's
here and what that is. But Matthew, for those maybe who don't know, you don't need to mention
kind of your recent scandal, let's say, but just why don't you give a background to folks who don't
know you and then kind of give us your Bitcoin bona fides maybe, including who you just interviewed
a couple of days ago. Sure. Well, thanks for having me, Jordan. It's good to be with you all.
Yeah. My name is Matthew Mastronardi. I live in Spokane, Washington, and I'm a former teacher
and we'll get into that. I'm a former teacher, but yeah, I've been into Bitcoin for about four
years now and lead a little organization here called Pacific Northwest Bitcoin. We teach free
classes along with my brother, who you got to meet up in Moscow, Idaho. And I also have a podcast
called The Great Reassessment. And the episode you're referring to is my episode of Jeff Booth.
And it was really cool. I had to wait a long time because he's a very busy man,
but my mind was nonetheless you know blown away just being able to talk to him it's really cool
and so yeah I've been into Bitcoin and yeah I have family in Argentina and that country has
you know suffered monetary oppression and you know you wake up one morning the banks are closed and
so I kind of understand the symptoms of bad money from that perspective a little bit and
yeah, it's just, it's a rabbit hole. Yeah. And so again, so Matt, Matt, uh, Matthew,
we have that in common. Obviously I lived, spent about seven years in Uruguay, which is just across
the, just across the river from, uh, from Argentina and just culturally those two places are super
similar. Uh, they're cousins in a lot of ways. So, uh, so even, even just looking at you by heart,
just like wells, because I just miss, miss being in Uruguay and miss our, our friends in the culture
there and everything. So, okay. So we'll, we'll get into this a little bit. Why don't you kind
of unpack for us? Obviously you, you're, you know, said that you were a teacher. Why don't
you kind of start unpacking what the situation was that arose and how that affected you?
Yeah. So I was a high school Spanish teacher in the public school system. And on April 17th,
it was during sixth period, there was an incident that occurred that eventually got me fired, but
I had taught my Spanish lesson and I was pacing around the room and students are working on an
independent assignment. And I overhear this conversation between two girls and they're
talking about the book to kill a mockingbird, which is a book that they're assigned to read
in their English class. I want to be clear. I don't actually teach that book, but we were talking
about how they have to skip over. Um, I'm not going to say the word here, but they had to skip
over a word called the N-word. And I was just thinking that's weird because you're assigned
to read this book. And as a Christian, we respect authorial intents, especially when we're reading
the Bible, right? And we should do the same thing when we're reading novels. We really miss an
opportunity to understand the context, to confront history head on. And we have to understand the
difference between context and intent. And I just expressed my disagreement with these girls
that they have to do that. And it led to a really spontaneous, teachable moment that I think these
kids really needed. So I kind of went off script a little bit. I wasn't planning on spending the
rest of the class period talking about this, but I thought it was a worthwhile side conversation
because we live in a world where we're losing context.
And I thought they needed that because in a couple of years,
they're going to be functional citizens.
And you can't have a society that doesn't have the capability
to appreciate nuance and context.
Well, anyways, a girl asked me straight up, she goes,
well, if you were reading the book, would you read the word?
And I laughed and I said, yes.
If I was reading the book, I would read every word. And in that moment, a boy whipped out the book. He had the page ready to go. And he said, here, take it. Let's see it. Do it.
and I felt like I was past the point of no return, and my integrity was on the line at this point,
and I felt like I had to display for these students that they can engage with literature honestly.
They don't have to be afraid. They don't have to be scared of being called a racist,
or only be allowed to read the book on certain conditions. I think it's your duty and your right
as a learner to read the text as written and without fear of consequences. And so I felt like
I had to display that and I did, and it was secretly recorded. And that video got circulated
around the school. It made its way up to the school board. And I eventually, the school board
voted to let me go. Oh man. I just, I mean, it was crazy for me to hear this story because we
had just been together i mean oh what was it a month and a half earlier uh we'd just been hanging
out and then to hear this whole thing happen i mean so i mean were these students i don't know
how much you want to get into this but like we're i mean this this wasn't this wasn't done maliciously
by this student they just were going to get it on on video they weren't thinking like oh we we hate
mr mr mastronardi we're trying to get him fired they weren't thinking necessarily any of that were
they? No, you know, cell phones in schools has been a really big problem. And you have to think
like teenagers these days, they're really just fighting for validation and they want to be
accepted by their peers. And everything to them is an opportunity to be connected and to share.
Everything's a post, right? I think she just wanted to capture the juicy moment to share with
friends. And this, I mean, on my last day of school, when everybody found out what was happening,
she actually apologized to me and with tears in her eyes. And it was a great opportunity for me
to say, I'm not mad at you. And I believe God is sovereign. But it was a great lesson for them to
think about second and third order consequences, because sometimes they make these decisions,
not thinking that there could be a secondary consequence that your actions actually have
effects. So how did the school board respond? Was it just pretty much, I mean, were they willing to
kind of hear you out at all or did any of the context matter? Ironically, the context of you
reading the book didn't matter. You know, the context of what you were doing, what was kind of
their response. Yeah. So it started out, the principal gave me a verbal warning, like a
reprimand saying, don't ever do this again. And I thought that was the end of it. But then two days
later, human resources director reached out to me and she said, we want to have a conversation about
your contract. And in that meeting, I was given an ultimatum that's in light of recent events,
I can either voluntarily resign or face non-renewal. And I submitted a rebuttal because
my conscience was clean. And two days after that, I was served papers of non-renewal.
And so I kept quiet about it because I was trying to follow due process and
meet with the superintendent, try to get him to reconsider. And they ultimately decided against
that. So the last week of school was when the story went viral. You know, you saw in the New
York Post, the Washington Times, the Daily Mail, libs of TikTok retweeted it. And it was just
everywhere. And so it was Thursday and the last day of school was Friday. At noon, I was served
papers that I had to vacate the campus and I didn't get to go to the last day of school and say
goodbye. And my brother works at the same school where we were teachers at the same school and he
worked across the hall. And he said that the next day was really sad because students were just
flocking to my room. They wanted to see me and they wanted to say goodbye. And, you know,
it was just a really sad situation. But then we had a school board meeting where that was my final
appeal last week. And they unanimously voted to terminate my contract. And, you know, it was,
it was crazy. We got there at eight in the morning. There was a huge crowd gathering
outside the building. And we had two overflow rooms and an hour of public comment. And it was
just really cool to see the community come together. And I'm really proud of my students for
displaying courage. You know, some of these are 15, 16 year olds making a public comment to stand up
for something they believe in. And so it was just really cool. But they, yeah, they made their
decision really quickly after the public comment. They had already made their minds up and they
voted unanimously to let me go. What do you think motivated, I mean, some of the, I mean,
just the reluctance or refusal to consider your appeal? What do you kind of chalk that up to?
I think that there's secular progressive forces that govern our public school systems that
they can't have a teacher who tells the truth too often. So I think they maybe thought that I
was going to be a loose cannon, right? If they let me get tenure, it's going to be a lot harder
to get rid of me. And I'm not afraid to speak the truth. I'm not afraid that if the student
comes to me with a genuine thought-provoking educational question, I'm not going to shut,
I'm not going to slam the door in his face.
And I think they saw me as a liability to where maybe he'll do this again.
And that,
I don't know if that's true,
right?
Every situation is a little different,
but I think that they saw me.
And you don't know if you would do it again.
Like it would depend on the situation.
Yeah,
it would depend on the situation.
Like I said,
my conscience is clean.
I felt like it was an appropriate time to have a spontaneous teaching moment,
which those are golden moments like every teacher dreams of hey look all the students
have put their phones away and they I have their undivided attention they're actually listening to
me it's a teacher's dream to have that and you know it and so every day is a little different but
you know I didn't wake up that morning wanting to do that it just sort of happened and yeah I think
it's a system that can't have too much truth telling or too much helping, uh, of helping
students think critically when it goes against their orthodoxy.
Have you had other like run-ins with, with like in the school at all, or was this kind of just
your, it was like one strike you're out? Yeah. I've, I had been teaching there for three years.
I've never had a disciplinary action before this. And to my knowledge, there's been no
like formal grievances. I've had conversations with parents about their students, but like
there's never, nobody's ever brought a complaint to me. Yeah. You know, and I passed every teaching
evaluation, but this was like the first thing and it just like an avalanche that it just,
it all sort of erupted. Yeah. So, I mean, you, as you, you mentioned, it might've been before we
got on the call, like you're married, you have three kids. So what is the last, you know, few
weeks looked like from that standpoint, just in terms of, I mean, you still got to provide for your
wife and kids. You still got to put food on the table. You know, have you been able to find another
job or are you still kind of looking or what does that look like? Yeah. Well, fortunately the
teachers sign a contract, so I will thank God I'll still get paid for like two more months
through the end of my contract because my contract goes through August and then it's
terminated. But yeah, I'm looking for other opportunities. I have some entrepreneurial
ideas that I'm thinking about. I'm trying to build my podcast and network and things like that.
I'm really thankful that I have some Bitcoin
but
yeah I'm just sort of taking it one step at a time
the last month and a half has been
really stressful because
you know with all the articles and the news
you just spend a lot more time on your phone than you really want to
because you're
you're wondering what did the paper say
and who's leaving these comments that are attacking me.
And it just creates stress in a lot of unique ways.
And my wife has had to bear a brunt of this stuff.
And I've been busy talking to the press and things like that.
And you have this big question mark about what's the future going to hold?
And so we're relieved in a way that we have an answer so we can actually start planning and building our life again.
Sure. Yeah.
So in terms of your brother, I mean, that's, I'm sure on the one hand, I'm sure you have like mixed emotions about that, right?
You've got your brother who, you know, stands out for you and quits, you know, and so you're, I'm sure you're proud of him and happy on one, on the one hand.
And at the same time, is he married as well?
Yes, he's married, has a stay-at-home wife with three kids as well.
He still has two kids.
So I'm sure that, has there been any mixed emotions from your standpoint on that as well?
Yeah.
Sometimes I wonder, like, was this the right decision?
And ultimately, you know, he's the grown man.
He's going to make his decision.
Yeah.
And, you know, we're praying that God opens new doors.
And, you know, because, yeah, when you walk away from a teaching career, you know, you have a stable job, you have insurance, you have a 401k.
And, you know, so we're just like, man, we hope that there's some redemption at the end of all of this that, you know, we can look back and say, you know, it was all for a God-glorifying reason.
And we're already seeing some of that just with the students.
Like, I want to say how proud I am of my students because, you know, they're showing up to a press event.
They're showing up to the school board meeting.
And like this lesson about context that I was trying to teach they actually learning it in a very practical applicable way because you know before all this maybe they hadn thought about
our words, right? But now they see their teacher losing their job and they're actually forced to
think, well, he wasn't saying it in a racist, pejorative way. He was reading in a book.
And so they're having to like weigh it. Whereas maybe if none of this had happened,
And, you know, they would have just read the book the way the teacher wants them to.
And, you know, they wouldn't have thought about context and the use and intent of our words.
But now they are.
And I think that it's a lesson that it's going to carry with them.
And they got to hear the gospel through this.
And like my pastor came to the school board meeting and he led a beautiful prayer before the event.
And, you know, there's a lot of non-believers who are there.
And so some of those, hey, this happened for a reason. Some of that is already starting to reveal itself, but, you know, a man has to provide. And so we're hoping that a perfect God-ordained opportunity presents itself.
it did like with as far as like the the just the principle of context being important like is this
just something that just kind of came out of nowhere had you been like recently thinking about
this more or like reading stuff about it or what where did that kind of come from was it was it
just as simple as just happened to come up that day i mean in this particular yeah i mean personally
I really believe this. I hold it with great conviction that a word is not inherently evil
in and of itself. A word, it's the intent behind a word, right? And sometimes words are sharp
and they're like tools. And if they're very sharp, maybe we should leave them away for the
part. But you can conceive of a context where the only way to convey a message is using some of
these words. And I've used the example, like in the movie about Jackie Robinson, the movie 42,
there's a really hard scene where they're on the road, they're in another city,
and they're playing a team where the coach is just dehumanizing Jackie. He's calling him,
you know, every racial slur in the book. And like, think about it. If that's a movie,
they're trying to convey what this man went through. If they redacted the words and said,
inward, inward, inward, or beep, beep, beep, it would actually be a disservice to his story and
what he went through. Right. And so in that context, pulling out that sharp tool is actually
necessary to portray the correct history. And like, there's all sorts of consequences. I just
tweeted about this. I mean, look what happens when we only read the parts of the Constitution
or the Bible that we're comfortable with or that we like. There's all sorts of consequences
downstream from that. And I mean, one of them is like, our society is forgetting what a boy and a
girl is and that boys are competing. So the truth is at stake here when we alter and hide words
and language shapes your perception about reality. And you can actually control somebody's thoughts
when you control the language they're allowed to use. And so I see so many consequences downstream
and I just hold those principles dearly
and I want these students to be able to think for themselves
and we don't protect them by banning words.
We protect them by helping them actually understand what they mean.
Yeah.
And so all of that just came out in that moment
and I kind of just instinctually felt I had to do that
and I don't care if you disagree with me,
but at least think critically about it.
Powerful words.
I'm just trying to think.
So, I mean, what has been, I mean,
I don't know what the legal recourse, you know,
looks like with a situation like this.
Is there still, does there remain any kind of legal recourse for you
or not really?
I mean, what does that look like?
Because I mean, I'm just thinking, like, I've heard of a bunch of stories of you've got teachers who maybe not like sexually assault, but like they'll be accused of this and it'll go on or like it'll be known that this happened.
And like it's known that teachers union is very difficult to fire a teacher for a teacher to lose their job, at least in some states.
So the fact that they were able to so quickly get you out, you know, it's kind of surprising on one level.
So, I mean, maybe just answering that question, like what is the, do you still have any recourse and what does that look like?
Yeah, we still have some recourse.
So the reason I think they wanted to get rid of me is because if they let me teach for one more year, I would have been granted tenure.
And it's really hard to get rid of somebody who has tenure.
Got you.
So I didn't have the same rights to a formal hearing.
And now the union still represents me.
Yeah.
I was a non-dues paying member, and I've been transparent about that.
But I don't want my money going to some of the causes that these unions donate their money to.
But they still have to represent me because they are still the sole bargaining agent on my behalf.
And I had meetings with the union, and all I got was just, I was getting lectured about how what I did was wrong.
I would have never done what you did, and I've been teaching way longer than you have.
And like no meaningful help whatsoever.
And I actually have that conversation on audio, and I'm probably going to release it soon.
But yeah, there is legal recourse because even though I was not a tenured teacher,
there's a case to be made that this is a viewpoint discrimination first amendment case
that falls outside of the teaching policy and it's being looked at very closely i'll say that
can i chime in something there do it uh you know having employed hundreds of people over the years
you have to be aware not only of like, it's okay. You know, Hawaii is an at will work state. I don't
know if Washington is. So you can terminate somebody anytime you want, but it doesn't mean
you can discriminate against them. So if I say, um, you're no longer, I no longer need your
services today. And they say, what for? I can say, felt like it, you know, but I can't terminate
their services because sexual identity, religious racism, or anything like that. And so it's an
interesting, I'm not sure if Washington's an at-will work state, and then even though it's
an at-will state, you can terminate somebody anytime, anyplace. Not for any reason, though.
You can terminate them for no reason, but you cannot terminate them for a bad reason. Does
That makes sense. So it seems to me that in your case, your contract was, it's allowable to let you go because they just don't like the cut of your jib.
But not because you bring a viewpoint that's essentially, the word you said, Jordan, you said it right. I can't remember the word you used.
Basically religious discrimination or viewpoint discrimination.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
You can get rid of an at-will employee or a non-tenured teacher for no cause, right?
You can do that.
But if you let the cat out of the bag and you reveal what the real reason is,
and that reason ends up being you're retaliating against this person
because of a First Amendment viewpoint difference,
that's where things get a little bit tricky and and no you're right you don't have the right to
do that or you're violating the constitution at that point have you i mean i know you i mean you've
done a number of of interviews like i've seen you on a number of different interviews um has there
been i mean have any of those people i mean kind of reached out to try to offer more legal help or
just to help you think through that kind of stuff?
Or I guess who else has been in your corner
other than these unions?
Yeah, there's a few.
I've had a lot of DMs
trying to connect me with this person,
with that person.
And there's actually a pretty big,
I'm drawing a blank on the name,
but like the American Freedom Teachers Association,
I think.
They reached out.
they're having a big conference in July and they have people I'm speaking with.
Okay.
Looking at options and,
um,
but it's also like,
it's also so hard to like connect with people online and virtually.
Like,
so it's being looked at closely here locally as well.
Yeah.
So I'm,
I only have a few more minutes,
but I'm,
I'm fascinated by all the different cultural,
social,
linguistic and theological just kind of overlapping issues in this conversation and obviously i think
um yeah and i mean different people in in the moment right where you're yeah i i can just feel
the the the tension of i've i've i've said these certain things i've i've tried to teach this to
these students, this view that, that, um, that ideas and intent matters. And it's not just,
there's not just taboo words and certain syllables form together that, that create this unforgivable
sin. And then you're challenged with your idea. And so then you, you go for it. Right. Um, and I,
can feel that that the the challenge of that moment and and um and it it it makes sense that
you made that that decision um i wonder as i as i think through so there's a uh cr wiley has a
great book on uh tom bombadil and he has a whole chapter on on words and their connection to magic
and he uses even the linguistic connection of spelling as casting spells
and the role of words and their power and that they indeed have power
and humans infuse them with power and meaning
and that those words, yes, there's authorial intent, right?
the person speaking them. There's also etymological history. There's also semantic domain.
How does this word get used in different contexts, in different use cases? My background is in
linguistics and biblical languages. You read a whole ton about these different issues and you
can't just say, well, this Greek word means these five things. So that's what it means in this
context. You're like, no, that is called, that's an exegetical fallacy of the totality of the
domain that you're transferring into this one use case. And so language is complex. There's theories
around speech act and how speech is actually an act. And when God speaks, he creates when he speaks.
And so the divine actor is actually doing things as he speaks.
Words become reality when spoken by our triune God.
And we're little, right, image bearers of this God.
And the scriptures talk a lot about blessing and cursing and the power of words.
And so I would, and I think this is a whole other conversation,
and I'd be interested in engaging in it.
I think it's a worthwhile conversation where we can say both there is authorial intent within historical texts that appear in their own historical context.
And then you have present day context and the intent of a reader or someone in conversation or an actor on a movie set.
Like acting out a historical moment or just a imaginary hypothetical story.
Um, but I, I think there's also, I think words do get lives of their own that, that get created.
And, and then there's also, again, within speech theory, encoding and decoding.
Like if I'm, if I'm encoding a message to you in one language and you don't know that language or the word I'm using, it's the, the princess bride, uh, meme, you keep using this word.
I don't think you know what it means. Right. Um, and so I can encode one meaning into the,
into the vocalization that I'm giving, but my audience is decoding a different meaning.
Um, that's called a failure of communication. Right. Um, and so I, I would say that there,
there's so much burden on communicators to recognize even as a preacher. So I've over the
years I've preached hundreds of times and and you you go through this long process of okay I here's
my manuscript here's what I plan to say now what is my audience gonna hear and is this gonna be
helpful and I err on the side of being more calm not confrontational like like oh this will get a
rise out of people and I'm gonna so I'm gonna say this uh because I want to leave an impact I want
to be memorable. And then I have those the next week conversations and I get the emails from
congregants or people at the conference and they're like, what did you mean by that? And I remember
saying a particularly vivid image about abortion. And I was really passionate about it. And I used
this image and I communicated and I, I believe I told the truth about what abortion actually is.
But then I, and having conversations afterwards with, with women in my congregation, either who
work in the medical field or have been, have had abortions or like, and all of a sudden I realized,
wow, the Sunday morning large group context was not the context to say what I said.
and I did cause harm and not hypothetical, like you were politically incorrect. So I'm going to
have manufactured outrage, which sounds like, I mean, I don't know all the specifics, but that
sounds like a lot of manufactured outrage. Um, but I actually did cause like some stumbling
to, to listeners and, and hurt. And I've, I had to process through that and would I have said it
again. And so, um, yeah, that's just me, me rambling. And I don't feel like I have like a
clear, like, I don't know enough in a number of situations to say, well, therefore I'm going to
come to a conclusion about whether or not a thing should have been said in your context.
But, but man, there are so many elements of truth and questions of meaning and language
involved in this debate that I, I'm glad we're having it. And I'm glad there's a Christian
brother trying to be faithful in the midst of it. And by God's grace, probably learning and
growing through the process. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. And I agree. The context
in which we speak words is really important And I been reading Matthew 12 for the last month where Jesus is talking about you will give an account for every careless word you speak And you know I take that very seriously and I not perfect at
it, but at the end of the day, I think like, what is a classroom, right? A classroom should be a
place of guided exploration. And if a student needs to understand a word, a word used in context,
like what other place is, is that lesson going to become, come across if it's not in a classroom
and, you know, I know there's plenty of other areas where you can gain knowledge, right? But
I think the classroom is an appropriate place for that to take place, especially if, you know,
I was genuinely trying to serve students, and I made it very clear when and how this word should
not be used. I said it about four times, and there's even students who have done interviews
with the press who said, you know, Mr. Maschner, he was very clear. You don't call people this.
You don't use this in a discriminatory way. He was trying to help us understand what it meant in context and that you can still engage with something honestly and you shouldn't feel bad for it.
Because, again, understanding is key here.
If you read every approved word, but you have no understanding of how we got here,
that's fertile ground for the cycle that you're trying to prevent to just perpetuate.
And I think rather than having the blind lead the blind,
because these kids are going to be talking about it regardless.
Are they going to be doing it behind closed doors
when they're laughing with their friends
and then they end up making jokes about it?
Or can they learn about it from a teacher
who loves and cares about them
and who has more life experience?
And so there's a lot at play.
And so I agree with that.
It's kind of like the sex talk with kids.
Do you want them to learn about the sex talk
from their porn-watching 11-year-old friend?
Or do you want to hear it from mom and dad
that it's from mommies and daddies
and God, it's good and blah, blah, blah, you know?
And, you know, I have a little beam of light,
I think, to throw in here.
Like based on your testimony just now,
I feel like your students got the lesson,
if that makes sense.
And somehow your overseers didn't get the lesson
at this point.
And I don't know if it was their uplines
that, you know, because you had apparently
a conversation initially, which was like,
hey, don't do that again.
and then you have the opportunity to say, okay, that's not part of, that's not okay here. Okay,
I won't, you know? And then next thing you know, it's this surprise. So who knows behind the scenes
if there's like the bigger upline is like, nah, we're not going to have this guy around. I'm not
speculating. I'm just saying it sounds a little like that. And then your students saying, hey,
we're so sorry. We didn't know this would happen. Actually, they didn't really do anything wrong.
I mean, maybe it was a little bit inappropriate to film it, but they're kids. This is what the adult world is for, is for you as an adult to go back to the other adults and say, okay, tell me what our mission is here and set me some parameters. And here's what I was trying to do. And has anyone else come forward saying that I'm racist? You know, has there any other accusations against me? And it seems like that's the adult conversation that should have been happening.
And even if it's a reprimand, okay, fine, it's a reprimand.
But I think that by actions, they taught the kids something that's not true.
Whereas you taught them something that was true,
whether or not you stepped over the line.
Does that make sense?
So that's my little ray of sunshine is it seems like the students got it.
And I wonder if any of their families have expressed anything towards you
or anything like that.
all the families besides maybe one are in my, you know, in my courts. Um,
especially the families that were represented in that classroom. Um, I've,
I've received nothing but support from like 98% of students and families.
I've seen people making comments on Facebook on like local news articles that,
you know they're critical but you know there's you can't please everybody yeah um so yeah
and then it's like woe to you when all men speak well of you so like there's like that's a whole
other thing too is like you know it's not you don't want to be approved of by everybody there's
people who like who you should want them to disapprove of you because of who they are and
because of the things that they you know the type of things that they give approval to um i think one
of the other things that you mentioned, we don't know, I can't remember what the context was, but
you mentioned like there, we just have a culture, especially in the Pacific Northwest, uh, where,
you know, we don't know what anything, we don't know what it means to be a boy. We don't know
what it means to be a girl. And I would say the same thing goes just language more broadly. We
don't know why it exists. And we, we don't really like where it, there's a lot of it that language
is just, and it's even just discussed at this, at, at higher educational levels, like language is
violence and you know in that like basically it's a tool of manipulation it's a it's a it's a weapon
uh that that meanwhile meanwhile violence is language yeah that only violence is free speech
yeah that that only exists to basically uh you know further certain ends uh in all these things
and it's just like and then to look at that from a christian perspective like to look at and think
about language from a christian perspective language exists for the same reason that everything
exists, which is for the good of people in the glory of God. And so you're sitting there trying
to act and trying to serve your students by, you know, by communicating to them, hey, this is the
way that language works. And then you get, you were presented with one example and you use that
one example. But again, a lot of the, it seems like, you know, based on what you kind of you're
saying, like there is so much politicization. There is, you know, you have these people who
in the, you know, potential, potentially in the school board who are, you know, they tell you one
thing, don't do this again. And, and then again, the next day, somebody who's a higher above them,
who's afraid of getting in trouble or afraid of looking like they're not harsh enough on, uh,
somebody who's potentially a racist, you know, all this kind of stuff. Like there's, it's two
completely different ways of operating, right? You can operate from like a fear, uh, from like a
a position of fear and of self-preservation,
or you can operate from a perspective of love
and of self-sacrifice and of a desire to help people grow.
And so again, to kind of put the negative spin
on what Matt was saying,
it's very interesting what your students are taking away
from the school board, which is you make one mistake,
you do one thing that we don't like,
and you're canceled, you're done with.
You know, we're going to get rid of you. And so, again, it's just very humorous to think about the very purportedly secular Pacific Northwest who's being so puritanical when it comes to language. It's just, you know, it's very interesting.
Uh, but yeah, I, I think that this is, this is just something we're going to see more and more,
uh, as, as people come to the end, like there's been so much in, in the United States, uh, just
culture where we've, we've like kind of, there's been like, uh, like parasitic relationship between
culture and Christianity. Uh, there, like much of our culture has, has reaped the benefits of,
being largely Christianized and they've been like able to kind of do whatever they want to,
because they're still, you know, they can, they can, there's still like a small enough percentage
that it really doesn't affect and degrade the whole. But I think as we continue to get, you
know, critical mass and a higher, higher percentage of people who, again, for whatever reason have
gotten to the point where they just don't see the value of, you know, of the Christian faith anymore.
and they've replaced it with other things that are with other dogmas that aren't in line with
reality and that are far more oppressive when it comes to dealing with people who step out of line.
I think you're just going to see this in different levels, different parts of culture. So
yeah, again, I think it's, I'm just super encouraged, you know, by you, just by the way
you've handled it. You know, you haven't screamed and freaked out on people and, you know, and you
You haven't kind of backed down from what you did.
Again, I just think it's encouraging to other people who are potentially going to go through this.
I do want to ask you this.
You did mention you're thankful to have Bitcoin.
Again, we have the vast majority of people who listen to this podcast are Bitcoiners,
but there might be a couple who find this somehow who are confused as to why you would bring up Bitcoin in this context.
Like, what does Bitcoin have to do with you getting fired?
Yeah, no, that's a great point. And it's cool. Thank God for Bitcoin podcast where you can talk about Bitcoin. I think I'm thankful that I have some Bitcoin in this circumstance because, man, what if you only had money that just faces continual monetary debasement?
and I don't know I'm just I'm thankful for the how Bitcoin has shaped my mind over the last four
years because for the last four years I've been stacking Bitcoin because of what I believe it to
be and the principles and you know how it shaped my view of money and so it's helped me become a
cultivate better habits when it comes to money.
And so I'm not looking at this situation thinking like,
oh my gosh, what have I been doing the last four years?
I have $4 in my bank account and I'm not prepared, right?
So it's not just Bitcoin as money,
but it's Bitcoin as a way of looking at money,
a way of saving and for the last four years you know praise praise the lord that i've been in a
position where i've been able to stack some sats every month and you know if god forbid i don't
find a job but like hey i have something to live on for for you know a little while and it's not a
money that will bleed its value. It's a money that will increase in value. And, you know,
imagine if you were in a, imagine if we were in a place where the cancellation is a little bit
further, right? Then where the regime is a little bit more oppressive and they don't just cancel
your job or terminate your job. They actually find you money or they put you in prison or they
seize your assets. Like I'm thankful the United States hasn't gotten to that point yet, but
But man, we're not guaranteed that we couldn't go down a road like that.
But to have the money that is, it's really hard to confiscate.
And so I just feel freedom.
Like it's just another layer of freedom.
Like now that we're on this podcast, I can talk about things
that I wouldn't have normally been able to talk about.
And Bitcoin allows you to, you know, it gives you more freedom.
And so it's a whole mindset really.
yeah yeah go ahead ash you have a little less time yeah did you guys see the uh the scotus
decision about uh against that the school board related to uh gender curriculum stuff i don't know
so it's only yeah so the al moeller his briefing i think from today or yesterday uh went over it
uh super helpful but basically the um supreme court ruled in favor of a of a parent who wanted
to wanted advanced notice to take their their children out of specifically lgbtq uh like gender
uh curriculums and then it was literally like drag queen story hour type of things
uh and the the school board or the the school had said hey we don't need to give you advanced
notice. You drop off your kids, there are responsibility and we have authority to teach
them what we think we need to teach them. So sorry. And so the majority decision that Amy
Coney Barrett wrote was essentially no, parents have this prerogative and schools need to notify
them. But what was really telling and Moeller brought this out is the dissenting decision.
So the minority liberal justices, one of the lines in their opinion was essentially, if you allow this to happen and you give parents authority to choose what the state's allowed to teach them, you put the very structure of public education at risk.
right if you if you put authority in the hands of the parents and not in the state then all of
state education is at risk and will crumble and fall apart which i found so i mean like what an
insight into what this is actually really about yeah right is is it the state's job to uh indoctrinate
and create little perfect factory workers and like yes men to follow the state governing kind of regime?
Or are we trying to create sovereign families that live under the authority of God, that are citizens of a free republic and contribute to that republic and need an education in the arts and the sciences so as to be free and moral individuals, right?
And it's entirely different view of who has authority and what education even is.
But I mean, the Northwest is kind of, we're like the testing ground of this very kind of late stage democracy slash like Marxist idea that the state owns and should have full prerogative on the teaching of the next generation.
because they're not having kids themselves.
And so they need the mechanism
to indoctrinate the next generation, right?
Us Christian families, we have kids and we teach our kids.
If you're in this other secular ideological viewpoint,
all you have is the state education system.
And so they're gonna fight tooth and nail for that.
And I think, I mean, in your experience,
that's probably what a lot of this is about.
I think the question that's happening here with what happened with you, Matthew, is not even whether you did the exactly perfect thing. It's about, is this a conversation that can be had or is it not a conversation that can be had? Because it's not even about the specific, because in a lot of ways, like what Ash was saying earlier, you weren't even trying, you're not like the N-word guy.
and you're not like the, you're not, you're like, you were having, you were actually having a moment
with the students and you were responding to a challenge that they issued you. Like, will you
stand up for what you just said? And, you know, you could have chosen to say, I prefer not to say
it out loud or whatever, but you chose this path. But that's not even the point. The point is,
is this a conversation? And if it isn't a conversation, then they learn about that word
through gangster rap, or they learn about that word
through whatever is taught in the schools.
And what they find out is that what they're going to probably
end up learning is so-and-so's a racist
because they have 10 employees and none of them are brown-skinned.
And it like well what the demographic of where they do their business Or what the demographic of or how is their hiring process Are they actually a racist And you need to be exposed in a positive way
let's just say in a real learning way, to actual racism.
So that you don't say to what actual racism looks like, is what I mean.
And that's through great literature, as well as through history and stuff like that.
And if they understand that, as they grow into adults,
they also come to understand, okay, this is the real thing.
this doesn't quite qualify. Now what's the great danger in that for people as they grow up
is they equate real victims of racism who we should all care about, who are actually excluded,
who are actually even lynched in history and things like that. And they equate that to someone
who feels slightly uncomfortable because they have to code switch in an environment at work
or at school or whatever. And those two things are not the same. Those two things are not the
same at all. And, uh, and, and now they miss out on that experience of saying, I'm going to be
exposed in a helpful way to understanding like Huckleberry Finn or whatever, um, to kill a
mockingbird. And these authors were not writing because they were racist, you know, and again,
as Ash pointed out, this could be like five conversations, not just one, but, but if you
don't learn it, if you don't learn it that way, you're going to learn it the other way. And your,
your Overton window or whatever, maybe that's the wrong term, but you know, your, your blinds
start getting closer and closer and closer and you can't even understand what people are talking
about and you don't understand, um, the degrees. Yeah. I think, um, I think you're exactly right.
I think it is an Overton window issue and these kids, these students, they need to have the skill
to differentiate, like you're saying, without falling into an emotional collapse and falling
into some hysteria. Like you see a lot of 20 year olds who these social justice warrior types,
they go into complete hysteria and their mental faculties are not actually governing their body.
It's actually something more akin to like animals. So like you're actually abandoning what it is to
be human to exercise rationality, nuance, and reason. Like your reason is completely abandoned.
And do we want students to graduate from high school and they're going to not have that skill
to differentiate between those two things? Yeah. I mean, we didn't even get into just
the hypocrisy of you've got songs by Cardi B and songs by all of these artists who repeatedly,
I guarantee you, if you go to this public school, you're going to find hundreds of examples,
thousands of examples over the course of the year of people of like these songs being played with
this exact word repeated over and over again. And again, there's much less pushback. I would be
willing to wager a good amount of Bitcoin that there's not anywhere near the same pushback against
these things as there is against, you know, you reading a piece of classic literature. So again,
just the intellectual dishonesty is, it just boggles the mind. But again, it shouldn't surprise
us. And so again, that's why we can, and again, I think this is a big part of what I'm taking away
from you. Just hearing you talk is, you know, there's a confidence in the Lord and not this,
again, to what you just were describing, not freaking out and flying off the handle and
screaming at these people. I haven't seen any of that. And so again, it's just testifying that
you have confidence in an authority that is above all of these other authorities,
who sees and knows and will give recompense to you and handle these things. And so you don't need
to take these things, these matters into your own hands, uh, in, in, you know, God dishonoring
ways. So I think, yeah, you're just, you're illustrating, uh, the superiority of the God
that you serve compared to the God that they serve. Um, let's see, we've got, we've been going
for almost an hour. Uh, Ashwa, I know you got to run here, so I'll give you, if you have any other
last questions and Matt, if you have any other questions. No, man, I really appreciate this and,
And I'll be praying that God gives you grace.
And things like this,
when all of a sudden your life decisions
are posted on national media,
we don't usually sign up for that type of experience.
And everyone, of course, has opinions about it.
And so I just pray that God gives you grace
in the midst of that
and that any platform that he gives you
would be used for his glory.
thank you amen and uh is there ways people are supporting like uh are you guys doing any
fundraising or thinking yeah is there like a go send me or something go fund me yeah so well thank
you for the prayers that's that's really most important um there is a give send go that's um
is out there if people want to support me financially as i as i navigate this transition
And so that's givesendgo.com slash Mastronardi.
If you just type in my last name, givesendgo.com Mastronardi.
And you can follow the story.
If you want to follow me on X, I'll be posting updates.
I'm looking at announcing something pretty soon that is kind of big news.
and I also have a podcast myself
which is called The Great Reassessment.
And yeah, so there's my family
and the picture of the game that I go.
Yeah, there we are.
My boy's a little bigger now.
That was about five months ago.
What a beautiful family, man.
Thank you.
And so yeah, I never expected
but certainly appreciated.
So thank you to anybody who donates
and yeah I think we just need to be courageous during this time like yeah we are so deprived of
courage in our society there's you know the last 10 years like can I don't know how many people you
can think of like who have I mean there's plenty of people displaying courage but just like it's
it's rare you know and that's what I'm trying to do to the best of my ability yeah to me the 2016
I think it was 2016 Jordan Peterson moment was an example where it,
and you know,
maybe he needs to take a break and come to Hawaii now for a little while,
but back that,
what the way he answered about the transgender issue was so thoughtful,
unbelievably thoughtful,
unbelievably talking about the same things as words.
How do you use words?
And in his case,
he was actually being forced to say words rather than to not say words.
and I see this as an echo of that
and I just wonder and I hope
that this type of behavior
the light is shown on it
to where the students see it
to where the public sees it
this idea that power is everything
they have the power to get rid of you
and they utilize the power
and that's their story
period
and by the way
that's the story of the left
everything is power
if we don't have power
we need to take it from people so that we have the power and in the scripture in the god's way
of looking at things power is one thing and you're responsible for your power and then there's are you
living righteously and then there's justice and then there's all these other factors that you can
put into a matrix and say if i want to walk with god i put all these things together and if they
had cared about the students learning it wouldn't have gone this way and um i thought when you said
courage. That was the word that kept coming up in my mind. And when I'm working with someone as a
partner or with my own children or with anyone I'm teaching in church or with my employees,
I'm like looking for people who've got that spark. And it's so rare. It's rare in adults.
And I want to foster that courage. And I've had people who I disagree with or who challenge me.
and I'm like, yes, bring it, bring it, give it to me
because most people are sleepwalking.
Does that make sense?
And so I would love to see my children
or anyone else I have the opportunity to influence
become courageous in their life
because there's so few
and there's a little metric I've been using on myself
like the last year or so.
Would 15-year-old Matt and would 95-year-old Matt
be happy with the decision I made in my middle age?
because middle age is the age of,
you got to provide for your family.
You've got to be worried about finances.
You got to be worried about all these things.
And the tendency towards sin,
I think in middle age,
and I'm stealing this from,
what's that guy's name?
The abolitionist, actually.
What's the abolitionist guy?
Amazing Grace.
Wilberforce.
Yeah, Wilberforce.
I'm stealing it from his book.
He talks about this.
We face different sins in different ages of life
and middle age, the sin is fear of provision.
you know and we're and uh and so i'm always asking myself am i making decisions just based on
what i perceive will will do well for me and my family and provide or going back to my little
mantra or whatever is is my teenage self proud of the decision i made because it was made with
conviction and courage and is my 95 year old self looking back proud that i made that decision
not out of fear. And it seems to me that you're setting an example in that. And hopefully it looks
like the kids see that. Hopefully the public sees that. And however long your little moment
is where people are looking at you, that you're just what Ash said, that you're using that to
the glory of God. And I say words, you know, responding a little to Ash, again, this is another
two-hour conversation, but just a little snippet is like, words are made by great literature. They
don't have meanings on their own. And even Christians get wrong, what does agape mean?
Well, agape doesn't actually even mean one thing. It depends on if you're reading John or if you're
reading Peter or whatever. And you need to sit under the author. You need to sit under the teacher
and say, Peter, what are you trying to say?
Jesus, what are you trying to say?
John, what are you trying to say?
And I had a very similar situation
with someone I'm trying to partner with right now in business
where we were hashing it out about the Christian faith
yesterday, believe it or not.
And we have to say,
I believe the right Christian way to try to live is to say,
in most things, I don't cause a hassle.
In most things, I'm soft.
I'm listening.
I'm ready to learn myself.
To the point where you should be surprised when I stiffen my spine and say, I won't budge an inch.
You know what I mean?
And so if you're a Christian and you love rage or you love controversy, Paul tells Timothy, don't be that guy.
False teachers love controversy.
You need to be gentle with your opponents, gentle in everything.
Who knows, God may perhaps lead them to knowledge of the truth.
and and so I love to see believers where you are soft you are um you listen more than you than you
preach I guess and therefore it's a little bit like why did he stand up for that one thing
because that's not the kind of life he lives and and uh does that make sense and so I think
based on my short knowledge of your situation that's something you're displaying and I encourage
other Christians to be the same way, be soft and surprise people when there's something you won't
budge an inch on. It really, it's like the saying that the, like the stars shine bright, like the
stars are there 24 seven, but they shine more brightly at night because of the contrast. And so
I think that, you know, like that, that is what God is looking for, right? He wants there to be
contrast so that when, when there is, you know, in these occasional times where we are, you know,
face like Flint facing towards Jerusalem. Like we're, we're not turning, we're not Job's wifing.
Like we're, we're just like, we're not budging, uh, that, that should provide some, some good,
uh, you know, contrast to the rest of, of how we're living. I think that, and again, that will,
um, yeah, it will be, it'll accomplish the work that, that God intends it to have.
Um, Matthew really appreciate you, brother. Oh, do you want to add one more thing? Go for it.
Yeah. Well, I just want to say thank you to Matt because I really, you know, it's in all of you
guys. It's been really good to, it's been good for my soul just to like, these are all the things I
love, right? Visa, you know, Bitcoin and just truth really. And so thank you, Matt, for what
you were saying. And one thing that just kind of popped in my head as we were just finishing up
about courage is, you know, a lot of people have read John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress,
and he has a lesser known allegory that he wrote,
which is called the Holy War.
And not a lot of people know about it,
but it's called the Holy War,
the battle for Mansoul.
And there's a town called Mansoul
and it's protected and there's a gate around it
and it comes under attack.
And each person, you know how in John Bunyan,
And he gives everybody like the name of the trait they represent kind of.
Yeah.
And the first person that the enemy attacks from outside the walls, his name was Courage.
And I just think that that's really telling because Courage is the virtue upon which all other virtues rest.
It's like Jenga block on the very bottom.
Like you pull out Courage, everything else comes tumbling down with it.
And I think we're in a time where like, we just need more of that. And I hope my students who I'm, who I'm really proud of, I could not be more proud of them. And I want to give them credit for, you know, starting the petition, making public comments at the school board meeting and addressing people who are older than them and speaking the truth. And, um, it's just, yeah, that's just kind of something that was, um, I was thinking about as, as right as you finished speaking.
and yeah, courage.
So it's really good that Christians
not budge on some of these important things.
Yeah, man, amen.
I just wanna thank you, Matt,
for spending the time with us.
And again, we'll be praying for you
and thinking of you and your family
here in the days and weeks to come.
To close, hello, to close,
I want to just remind everybody,
we have one thing going on here
and actually it's very,
the topic of courage is very,
a very central part of what we have going on in the Orange Umbrella Kickstarter. This is
the Orange Umbrella Man, who's one of our characters. He embodies a lot of what Matt
embodies and a lot of what we've described here. And so this is a kid's book that myself and one
of my other friends named JD wrote over the course of two years. It's being illustrated as we speak.
we're getting close to having it done and we are we are over the 80 percent mark in terms of getting
this thing funded so we've got about two weeks left if you guys want to help bring a bitcoin
kids book into the world we don't use the word bitcoin we only kind of infer it so again it's a
good good gift to give to your friends and their kids maybe who don't care about bitcoin at this
point we also have if you're a geyser campaign if you're interested in funding in bitcoin so
again, your kids need courage. They need to, to see it. They need to, to, uh, you know,
see you carry it out. And, and so reading about it is one way to do that. So, um, so go grab your,
your copy or copies. We have like some, some, you know, 10 copy bundles and stuff like that for
people want to give them away as gifts and stuff. So, um, Matt, I would, uh, Matthew, I'd love to
shoot one your way. So, uh, we'll, we'll get the, we'll get the address offline. I'd love to give
one to you and your kids. So again, thank you for joining us for another episode of To the Unknown
Pod. And we'll be back on Thursday with the Mountain Presby's. Looking forward to that.
We got a bunch to talk to them about. So we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. God bless.
Thank you.