1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,380 And we are live. Welcome to episode 30 of To the Unknown Pod, part of the Thank God for 2 00:00:13,380 --> 00:00:17,480 Bitcoin podcast. My name is Jordan Bush. I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, which 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,180 exists to help Christians understand and use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good 4 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:25,360 of people everywhere. I'm joined by two of the three island boys right now. I'll let them 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,880 introduce themselves and then we'll tell you where the remaining lost island boy is. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,980 So go ahead, guys. 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:33,360 Hey, I'm Ryan Finley. 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,080 Yeah, father of six, entrepreneur. 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,120 Yeah. 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,100 Out of Oregon now. 11 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:41,140 Used to be on an island. 12 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:43,340 Go back as much as I can. 13 00:00:44,700 --> 00:00:48,860 I'm Matt Purvis, longtime pastor and entrepreneur on the Big Island, Hawaii. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,940 And what's the other thing? 15 00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:54,300 Third space guy, you know, cafe, all that kind of stuff. 16 00:00:56,660 --> 00:00:57,800 Good to have you back, Matt. 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:04,300 it's great to have you back matt and look the lost boy has been found it's it's incredible 18 00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:10,740 uh yes matt welcome from your your trip to to italy with your family for way too long having 19 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:15,560 lots of fun over there without us making us very jealous with all the pictures that you're sending 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:22,920 uh ash welcome introduce yourself wow we're already live okay let's go 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:31,500 Oshawa Hawthorne, dad of eight, live in Portland, Oregon, and happy to be with you guys also. 22 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,040 I help lead Brains Labs. 23 00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:35,680 All right. 24 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,060 So we are here again. 25 00:01:37,140 --> 00:01:41,900 What we do basically every week is we spend time on the internet, mostly on Twitter. 26 00:01:42,260 --> 00:01:46,640 And so the goal is basically take things that we found or take things that we found that 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,860 provoke thought and then come back here and discuss them and try to be good stewards of 28 00:01:50,860 --> 00:01:56,240 those thoughts and the time that we spend on the internet. So today we had a couple of things that 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,400 spurred thought about parenting. And so this episode, very controversial, controversially 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:07,100 titled, uh, the staggering failure of modern, uh, modern American parenting, I think is what I called 31 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:13,540 it. Um, and this stems from a tweet that was sent by Anthony Bradley, who's a professor, I believe 32 00:02:13,540 --> 00:02:21,260 it Hillsdale, if I'm not mistaken. Uh, let's, is it not? Oh, Acton, the Acton Institute. That's 33 00:02:21,260 --> 00:02:27,140 where it is. Yep. Positive. It's Acton. Uh, here we are. So Anthony Bradley used to work for the 34 00:02:27,140 --> 00:02:32,880 King's college, done a whole bunch of things. He shared this tweet. Wow. I just found 18 research 35 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,420 articles showing that youth ministry is ineffective. 40 to 50% of youth group kids walk 36 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:44,460 away from church after high school. Alternatively, the data shows that close relationship with parents 37 00:02:44,460 --> 00:02:52,120 predicts faith persistence. So what are churches doing? So we want to talk about this because this 38 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,700 is something that, I mean, all of us, I believe all of us grew up in Christian homes, maybe except 39 00:02:56,700 --> 00:03:03,500 for you, Matt. Matt, did you grow up in Christian home? Okay. Yep. So all of, okay. So everybody 40 00:03:03,500 --> 00:03:07,140 except for Oshawa, there you go. Oshawa is the pagan. Thank you. I'm glad we can clarify that 41 00:03:07,140 --> 00:03:08,820 and remind everyone for all of eternity, 42 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,740 Oshawa was a pagan. 43 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:13,440 And so we want to kind of talk about this 44 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,500 because all of us who did grow up in church, 45 00:03:16,020 --> 00:03:21,240 we could probably look back and just number on, 46 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,700 we need multiple appendages. 47 00:03:22,860 --> 00:03:24,260 We would need multiple family members 48 00:03:24,260 --> 00:03:26,640 to have enough fingers on which to count 49 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:29,440 the number of people who we went to church with 50 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,460 or school with who are no longer walking with the Lord. 51 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,860 And so we want to talk about why that is, why that isn't, 52 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:41,860 what are some of the reasons that that can be excused that in some cases might be legitimate, 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:48,580 but we would argue in most cases are not. So I'm going to open things up and I believe, 54 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,640 Ash, it was you who shared this one. So I'm going to allow you, you or Ryan, 55 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,520 this was one of the two of you, whoever shared Anthony's tweet, feel free to kind of 56 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:06,760 take the take the lead here well i'll i'll start us out um so his his point is is in this this tweet 57 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:13,220 and there's a previous one of just kind of asking the question why if we know this doesn't work so 58 00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:20,940 the the data has been there for like since we were in high school youth group of knowing hey 59 00:04:20,940 --> 00:04:28,600 this high percentage of evangelical youth leave the faith after leaving high school. 60 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,620 Often it's related to going to college, but not always. 61 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:40,020 And so if that's the case, and we're still putting all of our resources into doing youth ministry the same way, 62 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:42,680 like why, this is totally insane. 63 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,060 Why are we doing this? 64 00:04:44,060 --> 00:04:50,940 and my suggestion, I was just having a long conversation with another dad in our church 65 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:58,040 over this weekend is, well, let's start with the end in mind. Let's rethink how we're doing it 66 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:07,600 and let's ask the question, okay, why are they falling away? And then, okay, then what do you 67 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:15,000 need to change in order to avoid those things. So I would argue that it all comes back to the 68 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:24,920 father and the home life. And I believe that's what the stats show, that the efforts of the 69 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:31,580 church to entertain the kids and in fact, outsource, kind of create discipleship welfare 70 00:05:31,580 --> 00:05:34,340 for the family, right? 71 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:35,860 Dad's not providing. 72 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:40,860 So the single mom needs the welfare money 73 00:05:40,860 --> 00:05:41,960 to meet the needs. 74 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:45,580 Well, whether or not dad is present physically, 75 00:05:45,820 --> 00:05:47,100 well, he's not leading spiritually. 76 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:49,160 So the church has to make up for that. 77 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,660 And the church just can't do that 78 00:05:52,660 --> 00:05:56,600 because formation happens in the home primarily. 79 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,200 And so beginning with the end in mind, 80 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:09,760 we need to rethink discipleship of men and how you equip men to lead their homes in things like 81 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,520 family worship, things like presence and relationship and proactive discipleship. 82 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,340 But then also you need to rethink education because I think that's the other piece. You 83 00:06:19,340 --> 00:06:25,060 can have a genuine Christian family and a dad that's really trying to do the right thing. 84 00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:28,560 and at the end of the day, 85 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,600 if they're in a public school system 86 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,900 that is especially designed to kill a biblical worldview 87 00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:39,420 and to rob children of their faith 88 00:06:39,420 --> 00:06:43,620 and they're getting six hours a day of that indoctrination, 89 00:06:45,460 --> 00:06:48,840 then it's an uphill, potentially losing battle 90 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:50,880 because you're working against all that. 91 00:06:51,020 --> 00:06:54,040 And then even if you somehow are able to cultivate faith 92 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,160 in your home against all the pressures of public school, 93 00:06:57,300 --> 00:06:59,500 then you send them off to a state university. 94 00:07:00,220 --> 00:07:05,120 Now, here you have an entire machine 95 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,040 just built around the purpose of destroying a biblical worldview 96 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,260 in the lives of young people. 97 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,540 And so now, okay, you're going to have to work against that. 98 00:07:15,540 --> 00:07:20,640 And then we're surprised when young people fall away 99 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:29,020 or at least become so compromised with a secular mindset 100 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:31,920 that though they're still church attenders, 101 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:42,960 they now feed into this whole lukewarm, ultra Marxist, socialist kind of segment 102 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,080 of the church that has lost the heart of the gospel 103 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:53,280 and no longer has the salt and light of preserving our culture against ungodliness. 104 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:55,660 So that's what I go back to. 105 00:07:55,780 --> 00:08:00,600 It's the dad, it's rethinking education, and you work back from there. 106 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:03,200 Let's do this. 107 00:08:03,340 --> 00:08:06,060 Before we, because I mean, I may agree with you, 108 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:08,820 but let's just outline the problem. 109 00:08:09,380 --> 00:08:11,920 What are just the bad fruit? 110 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,880 So what's outline that? 111 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:21,580 So Bradley talked about 50% of the teens, you know, 50% of teens are walking away. 112 00:08:21,780 --> 00:08:24,880 What are some of the other things that we see, the other downsides? 113 00:08:28,340 --> 00:08:29,260 Oh, Ryan, you're muted. 114 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:31,000 Here we go. 115 00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:32,240 You're unmuted now. 116 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:33,160 Yeah. 117 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,260 I would say that the fruit's not just that 40 to 50% of youth group kids are walking away. 118 00:08:40,300 --> 00:08:41,720 I think it's actually higher than that. 119 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,620 And like, just from my own experience, it could be as high as 70%. 120 00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:48,180 And that's the problem. 121 00:08:49,940 --> 00:08:55,360 We shouldn't accept a failure rate at all, like any failure rate. 122 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:01,000 Like we should be like moving heaven and earth to figure out what in the world is going wrong. 123 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:10,560 And literally everything's on the table outside of like the core tenets of the gospel and our theology or how our theology works out. 124 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,820 I was talking to my wife the other day 125 00:09:13,820 --> 00:09:14,400 And I was like 126 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,780 A fisherman would not accept 127 00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:17,280 A 50% failure rate 128 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,620 In losing their fishing boats 129 00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:19,500 They would 130 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:22,080 They would literally do anything in the world 131 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,380 To stop the loss of a fishing boat 132 00:09:24,380 --> 00:09:25,360 And yet 133 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,020 My entire life 134 00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:28,380 Again, I'm 44 years old 135 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:30,000 So for five decades 136 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,300 We've had this extremely high loss rate 137 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:34,060 Of young 138 00:09:34,060 --> 00:09:36,160 Young men and young women 139 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,680 Walking away from the faith 140 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:38,840 After high school 141 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:48,140 and that's insane it's just full stop that's absolutely crazy and like um why i i was talking 142 00:09:48,140 --> 00:09:52,220 with the boys a little bit why do i think it keeps perpetuating like why do we keep doing the same 143 00:09:52,220 --> 00:09:56,480 thing and hoping for different results i think it's almost like an irrational optimism like hey 144 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,700 you know what my predecessor if they failed they didn't contextualize or they didn't do like they 145 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:06,660 didn't teach like it was it was too fluffy we got we're gonna go deeper but at the end of the day 146 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:25,820 I 100% agree with you, Osh. As the dad goes and as the mom goes and as the home goes, so goes the family. And then I would also add it's the health of the family, but also it goes hand in hand with where are the children spending their time each and every day. 147 00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:32,860 uh and i made a post earlier today that we uh we overestimate the impact of 15 minutes with our 148 00:10:32,860 --> 00:10:39,260 kids and we underestimate the impact of 10 hours with pagan peers or in a pagan environment like 149 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:44,060 oh it'll work out all right i spent 15 minutes with them and we read a bible verse and it's like 150 00:10:44,060 --> 00:10:52,380 dude like being in a being around very very spiritually unhealthy people is really really 151 00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:56,940 bad for a person. Like I look back at my life and I'm like, wow, dude, like the stuff that I went 152 00:10:56,940 --> 00:11:03,180 through and the stuff I was exposed to, it's like extremely destructive. And so that's got to change 153 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:11,300 like, and yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. So let's, I mean, let's, so let's give some, I'll play devil's 154 00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:14,740 advocate, right? I don't actually believe this, but like this, this is going to be some of the 155 00:11:14,740 --> 00:11:21,080 pushback that you're going to get is, well, um, you know, again, so what you're, so you, are you 156 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:26,840 saying that parents have absolute control over the end product of how their kids end up. That's 157 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,600 going to be the first thing you hear. And the second thing you're going to hear is, okay, now 158 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,000 that's, you could, so you could have some Christians who, you know, might be, they might 159 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,240 answer that one of two ways, but then I'm going to heighten it here. So, uh, I believe all of us 160 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,940 here would be Calvinists. Okay. So we are people who believe in the sovereignty of God, believe 161 00:11:43,940 --> 00:11:49,060 that ultimately at the end of the day, uh, we don't choose God. God chooses, you know, God chooses us. 162 00:11:49,060 --> 00:11:50,680 This could be a podcast for another episode. 163 00:11:51,040 --> 00:12:00,380 But as people who believe in the sovereignty of God, I would imagine there's a big part of this pushback that would come and say, listen, God is the one who calls. 164 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,240 And so if God is only calling 50% of these children, who are we? 165 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,040 How are we to object with what God wants to do? 166 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:14,840 So there's two potential objections, and I'll let one of the three of you figure out how you want to answer. 167 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:34,192 Great Maybe start with the first one Start with the first one and then we can yeah and we go from there The first one was are you saying that parents have absolute control over the end product of how their kids 168 00:12:34,192 --> 00:12:43,392 of whether or not their kids become Christians, to be able to put the blame on the parents for the failures that we're seeing in terms of the statistics? 169 00:12:44,352 --> 00:12:46,092 I guess absolute, maybe not. 170 00:12:46,092 --> 00:12:52,912 we don't have absolute control because people have will. Did you notice a message, a word was 171 00:12:52,912 --> 00:12:59,132 missing there? They have will and they have decisions which are real and they have responsibility 172 00:12:59,132 --> 00:13:06,152 for their decisions as individuals, but pretty close to absolute in the sense that parents, 173 00:13:06,792 --> 00:13:12,512 are you really diagnosing and testing yourself to see whether you explain the gospel to them 174 00:13:12,512 --> 00:13:17,672 at age appropriate levels all the way through their raising and that you were there to answer 175 00:13:17,672 --> 00:13:23,712 questions and that you were sympathetic and, um, you know, uh, not to spin off into just my life, 176 00:13:23,772 --> 00:13:28,392 but my life is very busy right now with six kids and I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to shrink it 177 00:13:28,392 --> 00:13:34,472 down. And I'll, I'll add that to a takeaway from my seven weeks in Italy. I'd say that the, 178 00:13:34,472 --> 00:13:38,412 one of the greatest gifts of that time was just being with my kids a lot more, 179 00:13:38,412 --> 00:13:43,892 you know I couldn't be in my business I couldn't be in these things which now I have to catch up but 180 00:13:43,892 --> 00:13:49,612 recognizing intimacy especially with my son but with all my kids that just because I got to spend 181 00:13:49,612 --> 00:13:55,852 more time with them so I'm in the process now of intentionally trying to sell some things move 182 00:13:55,852 --> 00:14:01,552 some things around so that that's an everyday thing and by the way I wasn't like the poster 183 00:14:01,552 --> 00:14:07,952 child of bad before but I see it as much more important than many of the other things that 184 00:14:07,952 --> 00:14:18,952 are going on. So, yeah. And so I would, and go ahead. I would just add with the question about, 185 00:14:19,292 --> 00:14:24,652 hey, are you telling you have, saying you have perfect control and it's like an equation, 186 00:14:25,112 --> 00:14:30,912 do these, these three things and you get these, these three outcomes. So I was involved in a, 187 00:14:30,912 --> 00:14:36,412 in a church that had a lot of pithy statements and it was, it was age integrated and it, it, 188 00:14:36,412 --> 00:14:41,712 It had a high value for family and household and all these things that we would celebrate. 189 00:14:42,792 --> 00:14:46,852 But it was connected to a certain level of legalism. 190 00:14:47,592 --> 00:14:52,032 And there definitely was this idea that, hey, if you make these right decisions, 191 00:14:52,032 --> 00:14:59,872 if you home educate and you do this and this, you are going to get these great outcomes. 192 00:14:59,872 --> 00:15:06,112 And what happens is legalism shoots itself in the foot. 193 00:15:08,992 --> 00:15:13,232 So if you do violence to God's wisdom, how he's made the world. 194 00:15:13,532 --> 00:15:16,892 So simple Proverbs, like walk with the wise and you'll become wise. 195 00:15:17,752 --> 00:15:22,872 The companion of fools will come to ruin or teach a child in the way that he should go. 196 00:15:22,972 --> 00:15:24,472 He will not depart from it. 197 00:15:25,112 --> 00:15:26,192 Discipline a child. 198 00:15:26,192 --> 00:15:39,372 uh right the the the rod yeah yeah yeah the the rod uh right it it it removes folly from the heart 199 00:15:39,372 --> 00:15:45,792 of the child like these are these are ways god has made the world they're they're truth and wisdom 200 00:15:45,792 --> 00:15:51,772 that if you ignore them and do violence to them you should not be surprised that you don't get 201 00:15:51,772 --> 00:15:57,452 the results that you're looking for. At the same time, if you try to turn them into promises or 202 00:15:57,452 --> 00:16:08,392 laws that says, God, you owe me a good child because I did this thing, or you create a culture 203 00:16:08,392 --> 00:16:16,032 that equates, oh, they're having a problem, then they're doing the wrong thing below. 204 00:16:16,032 --> 00:16:18,352 But like it's always cause and effect. 205 00:16:19,192 --> 00:16:21,632 And then that removes the heart. 206 00:16:22,292 --> 00:16:23,792 So it's still, right? 207 00:16:24,672 --> 00:16:34,032 Paul says the aim of our charge is love, which issues from a pure heart, a good conscience and a sincere faith. 208 00:16:34,512 --> 00:16:36,752 What's the goal of the teaching? 209 00:16:36,912 --> 00:16:38,772 It's love, right? 210 00:16:38,772 --> 00:16:41,912 So that's an internal heart transformation. 211 00:16:41,912 --> 00:16:47,092 and so I would just argue that legalism will always fail 212 00:16:47,092 --> 00:16:50,372 and we're not expounding legalism 213 00:16:50,372 --> 00:16:51,752 these are not the 10 tips 214 00:16:51,752 --> 00:16:54,212 if you just do these things you'll get these results 215 00:16:54,212 --> 00:16:55,832 but we are saying 216 00:16:55,832 --> 00:16:58,392 dude if you ignore these things 217 00:16:58,392 --> 00:17:00,712 you're not going to get good results 218 00:17:00,712 --> 00:17:03,992 now love covers a multitude of sins 219 00:17:03,992 --> 00:17:06,092 and God is sovereign 220 00:17:06,092 --> 00:17:09,892 and he might bring your young person back to the faith 221 00:17:09,892 --> 00:17:13,552 after hours of prayer and years of folly. 222 00:17:14,652 --> 00:17:19,012 But, you know, yeah, like the Jonah story. 223 00:17:19,452 --> 00:17:22,072 There's a shorter distance between A and B 224 00:17:22,072 --> 00:17:25,952 than going through a fish. 225 00:17:29,872 --> 00:17:34,052 You know, I was preaching on Luke 12 this past Sunday, 226 00:17:34,392 --> 00:17:36,012 and it's about covetousness. 227 00:17:36,012 --> 00:17:36,832 And I made the point, 228 00:17:36,832 --> 00:17:39,952 Jesus talks about the man who's 229 00:17:39,952 --> 00:17:41,992 He interrupts Jesus with the crowds 230 00:17:41,992 --> 00:17:44,732 And he's like, help me get more of my inheritance 231 00:17:44,732 --> 00:17:47,572 Help me decide this issue 232 00:17:47,572 --> 00:17:51,452 And Jesus right away brings up this world 233 00:17:51,452 --> 00:17:53,472 Your life does not consist of your possessions 234 00:17:53,472 --> 00:17:56,112 And to relate it to this topic 235 00:17:56,112 --> 00:18:02,392 Covetousness is the most flashlight to your soul 236 00:18:02,392 --> 00:18:03,732 Of the Ten Commandments 237 00:18:03,732 --> 00:18:05,972 Because it's not something you did 238 00:18:05,972 --> 00:18:08,112 It's something that's going on inside. 239 00:18:08,692 --> 00:18:11,912 So I literally had a congregant, this tells you about where I live. 240 00:18:12,332 --> 00:18:15,532 Well, I'm wondering, like, my hot water system isn't working. 241 00:18:15,772 --> 00:18:20,612 And is it coveting for me to want to have, like, my hot water going again? 242 00:18:21,332 --> 00:18:25,192 And I had to say, well, I had to get into a talk on this, the heart. 243 00:18:25,312 --> 00:18:27,292 I said, I can't actually answer that for you. 244 00:18:27,552 --> 00:18:30,332 And Jesus, in fact, leaves it open. 245 00:18:30,332 --> 00:18:53,972 He tells the crowd, you know, I can't remember his final phrase in Luke 12 on that section, but he leaves it with the crowd. It doesn't consist of your possessions. It's more than that. And you are supposed to now examine yourself, right? And then he turns to his disciples and he gives them a greater teaching. So therefore, don't be anxious about your life. God will provide you your food. God will provide you your clothing. 246 00:18:53,972 --> 00:18:56,992 and what's the point I'm making here? 247 00:18:57,192 --> 00:18:58,612 You know, you can't say, 248 00:18:59,112 --> 00:19:00,492 oh, I'm in a war zone 249 00:19:00,492 --> 00:19:02,312 and someone starved to death. 250 00:19:02,372 --> 00:19:03,992 Therefore, the whole Bible is a lie. 251 00:19:04,092 --> 00:19:04,752 Jesus is lying 252 00:19:04,752 --> 00:19:06,592 because he didn't provide for that person's food. 253 00:19:07,372 --> 00:19:08,832 If you think that way, 254 00:19:08,832 --> 00:19:11,192 you'll misunderstand the entire text of scripture. 255 00:19:11,612 --> 00:19:12,632 He's talking about 256 00:19:12,632 --> 00:19:14,652 what is really going on in your culture, 257 00:19:14,792 --> 00:19:17,512 the 99% of the situations he's talking about. 258 00:19:18,092 --> 00:19:19,932 And so going back to what we're talking about, 259 00:19:20,692 --> 00:19:21,892 it's in the heart. 260 00:19:21,892 --> 00:19:28,612 are you aware that you may be drastically, as a parent, as a family, as a Christian, 261 00:19:28,752 --> 00:19:36,012 you may be drastically sort of been swallowing the Americana propaganda for a long time, 262 00:19:36,152 --> 00:19:39,832 and you don't realize it. And so you're supposed to examine yourself and go, 263 00:19:39,832 --> 00:19:49,412 okay, what is Americana? It's chipper happiness and hope for the future. It's management theory. 264 00:19:49,412 --> 00:19:57,792 it's corporations it's constantly expansive uh growth in numbers and growth in charts and growth 265 00:19:57,792 --> 00:20:02,832 and all this kind of stuff it's finishing your degree and finishing your certificate and finishing 266 00:20:02,832 --> 00:20:07,912 your uh i did this i memorized this you know talk speaking of christianity you know i memorized this 267 00:20:07,912 --> 00:20:14,032 many verses i got my star i got my certificate i got my whatever all this kind of stuff is like pure 268 00:20:14,032 --> 00:20:21,512 professionalism, corporate style, chipper Americanism. And if that's kind of affected 269 00:20:21,512 --> 00:20:27,012 your thinking, you might be like, well, they went through this process. They went to the Bible study. 270 00:20:27,012 --> 00:20:34,132 They went to the youth group and not doing as what Ryan said. And I think offline Ryan took it 271 00:20:34,132 --> 00:20:39,332 even farther, but maybe you can bring that up again. But it's saying you can't look at those 272 00:20:39,332 --> 00:20:44,852 things, you have to look at what's really going on with your kids and what's really going on with 273 00:20:44,852 --> 00:20:52,472 your church culture and also your in-family culture. Am I being more affected by God's 274 00:20:52,472 --> 00:20:59,532 testimony or have I really swallowed the pill of my surrounding culture still holding on to the 275 00:20:59,532 --> 00:21:06,552 cross, but what about the rest of the stuff? And sometimes it's harder to take that deep look into 276 00:21:06,552 --> 00:21:12,312 your soul when no one else can fully answer it for you, your friends can help, you know, but 277 00:21:12,312 --> 00:21:18,092 your church can help and say, have I been providing this kind of culture that comes from the Bible 278 00:21:18,092 --> 00:21:27,552 for my family and my church? I think another thing that I want to, again, on that, like getting at 279 00:21:27,552 --> 00:21:34,112 the same thing that Matt, you're pointing out is like everyone serves a God. And so there's a lot 280 00:21:34,112 --> 00:21:41,092 of people who they don't understand the God that they're actually serving, or they're trying to, 281 00:21:41,412 --> 00:21:47,612 they're either wittingly or unwittingly trying to be some sort of polytheist where, again, 282 00:21:47,712 --> 00:21:52,732 it's not like these people who are just not, it's not, in a lot of cases, these families were going 283 00:21:52,732 --> 00:21:58,652 to church, right? So like they recognize the importance of, you know, obeying God and, you 284 00:21:58,652 --> 00:22:04,552 know, being with his people. And, and so there's some prioritization there, but so the problem is 285 00:22:04,552 --> 00:22:08,752 not just one of neglect altogether, but it's like this polytheism thing where it's like, Hey, 286 00:22:08,872 --> 00:22:14,032 we have a, we have a pantheon of multiple gods. And so, you know, one of our gods is going to be, 287 00:22:14,112 --> 00:22:18,472 you know, it could be sports, you know, like, so we're going to, cause, and you can, you can 288 00:22:18,472 --> 00:22:24,272 identify these by sacrifices, right? Well, where are the sacrifices being made? So like, I knew we, 289 00:22:24,272 --> 00:22:28,172 I mean, when I was growing up, you know, we went to church. 290 00:22:28,272 --> 00:22:29,632 We were in church most Sundays. 291 00:22:29,752 --> 00:22:33,912 But then when I got to high school, we would go to, I did travel sports. 292 00:22:34,332 --> 00:22:36,432 And so there were weeks that we missed. 293 00:22:37,332 --> 00:22:40,532 And I, you know, I wasn't walking with the Lord for a good period of that time. 294 00:22:40,572 --> 00:22:41,672 So I loved those. 295 00:22:41,692 --> 00:22:46,492 I loved those times where I didn't have to be in church and was able to go play sports. 296 00:22:46,972 --> 00:22:52,352 There's other people, though, who, you know, again, they might be, I mean, I live in the south of the southern United States. 297 00:22:52,352 --> 00:22:57,812 and so they're like college football is an enormous thing here like to a degree that is 298 00:22:57,812 --> 00:23:02,872 I mean just idolatrous and insane in in my opinion even as somebody who grew up appreciating sports 299 00:23:02,872 --> 00:23:09,732 I mean there are people who I mean the entire weekend is devoted to the tailgate and then the 300 00:23:09,732 --> 00:23:14,172 game and then after the game and then you know whatever else goes with it and so this will be 301 00:23:14,172 --> 00:23:19,492 you know this will be multiple times a week uh if it's you know some maybe some other sports it'll 302 00:23:19,492 --> 00:23:25,832 be multiple times a week, just hours and hours and hours that are spent with these things at the 303 00:23:25,832 --> 00:23:33,312 expense of scripture reading or at the expense of time spent together at the expense of, you know, 304 00:23:33,312 --> 00:23:40,852 time and energy being sent, being spent forming your kids' minds in active ways rather than just 305 00:23:40,852 --> 00:23:46,712 passive ways. Again, there's, it really comes, a lot of this comes down to priorities and just of 306 00:23:46,712 --> 00:23:55,172 things of, you know, just doing an evaluation of, again, it's one thing, yes, yes, I believe this, 307 00:23:55,252 --> 00:24:00,252 yes, I care about the Lord, I want to honor him, but then just evaluating, but like, okay, where am 308 00:24:00,252 --> 00:24:05,432 I, and this is where using economic language is really helpful, where am I spending my money? 309 00:24:05,812 --> 00:24:13,032 Where am I spending my time? Where am I spending my attention, my love? You know, all of these 310 00:24:13,032 --> 00:24:18,292 things. These are, these are, these are, uh, things that God describes in monetary terms all 311 00:24:18,292 --> 00:24:23,932 throughout the scriptures. And so, I mean, I think your, your loves, like, that's another thing is 312 00:24:23,932 --> 00:24:29,792 like, where, where, where is your passion? Like, what are you actually passionate about? And is 313 00:24:29,792 --> 00:24:35,892 your passion aligned with what, you know, with what God's, what and where God's passion is. 314 00:24:36,372 --> 00:24:39,752 Uh, and so all of it, like, I'm, none of us are going to be perfect at this. There's all of us 315 00:24:39,752 --> 00:24:41,512 are gonna have to varying degrees, 316 00:24:43,152 --> 00:24:56,284 we gonna do this well or poorly to varying degrees But I mean this is something where we can fool ourselves And there a lot of people who fooled themselves and acted like I did everything right And then there there people creating 317 00:24:56,284 --> 00:25:02,104 resources, creating books who are, who, you know, want to affirm that, oh, you know, just, yeah, 318 00:25:02,124 --> 00:25:04,985 you did everything right. And, you know, just, you know, just cause you do everything right, 319 00:25:04,985 --> 00:25:12,104 doesn't mean that they can't get a bad outcome. And it's just, it actually is that way to a far 320 00:25:12,104 --> 00:25:17,344 greater extent than people are willing to recognize to the point, and this would maybe be a verse that 321 00:25:17,344 --> 00:25:24,705 I'd love to bring up, is when you look at the qualifications for a pastor in the New Testament, 322 00:25:24,824 --> 00:25:30,284 I don't have the reference at hand, but one of the qualifications is for a pastor is that his 323 00:25:30,284 --> 00:25:37,564 children are basically walking with the Lord, to put it in certain terms. And so I remember the 324 00:25:37,564 --> 00:25:42,544 first time I really, that kind of hit home with me. It was just like, wait a second. Like, is this, 325 00:25:42,645 --> 00:25:48,664 what a weird thing. If, if it's just this total crapshoot, you know, if like your kids walking 326 00:25:48,664 --> 00:25:53,985 up the ward is just, you know, quote unquote, all in God's hands in, in, you know, in, in a 327 00:25:53,985 --> 00:25:59,304 non-helpful and non-true way, like then, then how in the world does it make sense that part of the 328 00:25:59,304 --> 00:26:05,225 qualification for an elder or for a pastor would be that, you know, the, the spiritual state of his 329 00:26:05,225 --> 00:26:12,024 children. It's just a very weird thing if that's the case. And so, so again, I just, this has been 330 00:26:12,024 --> 00:26:16,844 something that I've, I've, as you guys, I'm sure have just thought a lot about and grown and grown 331 00:26:16,844 --> 00:26:23,384 in and, and just meditated on a ton. And so, yeah, that would be my encouragement to people is just, 332 00:26:23,784 --> 00:26:27,624 you know, just meditate on this. Now, at the same time, we have older people who listen to this, 333 00:26:27,664 --> 00:26:31,884 who people who have grown up kids. Again, we're not, this is, we don't know your situation. 334 00:26:31,884 --> 00:27:00,544 There's mitigating circumstances and everything. And so, again, to Ashwa's point, there's wisdom here. And the point of wisdom is that these are generally true statements. And what we're trying to point out is that there is far more general truth to these things than many Americans in the last probably five decades want to admit if they were to honestly evaluate kind of where their treasure has been and where their hearts have been. 335 00:27:00,544 --> 00:27:05,604 I think that, first of all, you preached part of my sermon just right there from Sunday about, 336 00:27:06,304 --> 00:27:11,364 and Christians should actually be, especially Calvinists, shout out Calvinists, 337 00:27:12,584 --> 00:27:19,564 you should be able and willing to take a thing and think about it abstractly and consider it 338 00:27:19,564 --> 00:27:26,005 abstractly and say, should I believe this or not believe it? That is not a matter of a lack of faith. 339 00:27:26,005 --> 00:27:31,364 That's a matter of being trained mentally by the word of God. Similarly, I should be able to 340 00:27:31,364 --> 00:27:41,364 more, more or less autism. Yeah. Yeah. Reducing autism is going to reduce the Calvinists. 341 00:27:42,024 --> 00:27:48,424 I'm going to make a point that it's the opposite actually in a second. But so similarly, I should 342 00:27:48,424 --> 00:27:53,164 be able to look in the mirror and I think, and do what Jordan said and look at myself and say, 343 00:27:53,164 --> 00:27:59,725 there's a meme like this, you get out there and whatever, that meme, and say, I'm going to look 344 00:27:59,725 --> 00:28:04,864 at myself, I'm going to examine just what Jordan said, my money, my time, my speech, my content 345 00:28:04,864 --> 00:28:10,364 that I take, the movies that I watch, the podcasts that I listen to, what time I go to bed, and 346 00:28:10,364 --> 00:28:16,804 literally say, now here's what I know about this person, me. Now, does that person value God the 347 00:28:16,804 --> 00:28:22,024 highest in their life? Does that person value their family where they should? And momentarily 348 00:28:22,024 --> 00:28:27,064 disassociate myself with the idea that I want to consider myself righteous. I want to consider 349 00:28:27,064 --> 00:28:31,884 myself walking in the right way. And I think that the Bible talks about that definitely as far as 350 00:28:31,884 --> 00:28:38,205 testing yourself. Am I in the faith? Now, I hope we're not going too far astray of Anthony's point 351 00:28:38,205 --> 00:28:42,304 of this is not only an individual thing, but it's a large corporate problem, 352 00:28:43,424 --> 00:28:50,985 showing that there's a measurable problem, which is catastrophic. 353 00:28:52,024 --> 00:29:17,405 And if I can, since you brought up Calvinism first, Jordan, you know, Calvinism is not the philosophical approach to Christianity. It's the opposite. It's to say, wow, it says that? I believe it. I don't understand it yet. You know, in my view, it's the more childlike response to scripture to say, I don't understand how these things could be, but they're so clearly put by my teacher and by my God. 354 00:29:17,405 --> 00:29:22,165 I'm going to believe it and little by little I'm going to understand it more and more and certain 355 00:29:22,165 --> 00:29:29,884 things I won't understand all the way and in the same way there's a simplicity to how we should be 356 00:29:29,884 --> 00:29:37,945 raising our children that maybe it's become so institutionalized part of the answer is bring it 357 00:29:37,945 --> 00:29:44,884 back to the simplicity and I think a lot of times we talk about homeschooling versus public schooling 358 00:29:44,884 --> 00:29:48,304 or even private schooling, that has the same kind of vibe. 359 00:29:48,745 --> 00:29:50,124 How do we get back to the simplicity? 360 00:29:50,384 --> 00:29:52,424 And from there, it doesn't mean you can't build institutions, 361 00:29:52,884 --> 00:29:55,465 but making sure those institutions are supportive 362 00:29:55,465 --> 00:29:58,264 of the simple commands in Scripture. 363 00:29:59,344 --> 00:30:02,985 Even the professionalism in the church, 364 00:30:03,705 --> 00:30:06,524 maybe some of the reason that pastors stay on 365 00:30:06,524 --> 00:30:07,645 when they're no longer qualified 366 00:30:07,645 --> 00:30:09,824 is because they've been professionalized 367 00:30:09,824 --> 00:30:11,225 to where they don't have another gig. 368 00:30:12,044 --> 00:30:13,905 They don't have another thing they can do. 369 00:30:13,905 --> 00:30:18,205 and at the nicest possible, kindest possible level, 370 00:30:18,764 --> 00:30:23,485 someone could become unqualified 371 00:30:23,485 --> 00:30:26,505 due to things outside of their control even. 372 00:30:27,024 --> 00:30:29,684 You know, their wife all of a sudden is sick. 373 00:30:30,684 --> 00:30:33,024 Something happens where they're not qualified 374 00:30:33,024 --> 00:30:34,264 in the moment at least. 375 00:30:34,945 --> 00:30:37,225 And you should still examine and say, is that me? 376 00:30:37,844 --> 00:30:39,725 But it may just be that it's time 377 00:30:39,725 --> 00:30:41,465 to not be leading the flock 378 00:30:41,465 --> 00:30:45,145 and having constant spiritual attack 379 00:30:45,145 --> 00:30:49,384 and constant needing to serve other people in a strong way, 380 00:30:49,524 --> 00:30:51,485 that's the nicest possible way to look at it 381 00:30:51,485 --> 00:30:54,665 is say sometimes you're not qualified just due to your situation. 382 00:30:55,705 --> 00:30:59,104 Have we built a situation where that person can step back 383 00:30:59,104 --> 00:31:02,324 and still be taken care of or work? 384 00:31:03,424 --> 00:31:04,844 And I'll kind of end my rant there, 385 00:31:04,924 --> 00:31:06,905 but the simplicity part is where I'm coming at. 386 00:31:07,524 --> 00:31:11,064 Read and believe the scripture with simplicity. 387 00:31:11,465 --> 00:31:12,645 then you become a Calvinist. 388 00:31:14,405 --> 00:31:16,324 And also look at the things, 389 00:31:16,505 --> 00:31:17,604 look at the commands of scripture 390 00:31:17,604 --> 00:31:19,445 regarding children and raising of children 391 00:31:19,445 --> 00:31:22,665 and maybe build institutions that support that. 392 00:31:24,665 --> 00:31:25,184 Yeah. 393 00:31:25,485 --> 00:31:27,844 Could we connect this conversation? 394 00:31:28,424 --> 00:31:29,485 You guys say something, Ryan? 395 00:31:30,384 --> 00:31:32,645 Yeah, I mean, I was just going to say, 396 00:31:32,764 --> 00:31:35,804 you know, specifically, 397 00:31:36,264 --> 00:31:39,564 I grew up in an environment I grew up in. 398 00:31:39,564 --> 00:31:42,684 all the religious activities were being done. 399 00:31:43,005 --> 00:31:44,684 All the kids that walked away from their faith, 400 00:31:44,764 --> 00:31:47,965 they were going to youth group and Awana and church camp 401 00:31:47,965 --> 00:31:51,064 and everything you could possibly imagine. 402 00:31:51,304 --> 00:31:52,344 And then they walked away. 403 00:31:53,044 --> 00:31:55,104 But there were also some really interesting things. 404 00:31:55,225 --> 00:31:58,584 I also, you know, I went to school in the 80s and 90s, 405 00:31:59,145 --> 00:32:00,924 like grade school, high school, 406 00:32:00,924 --> 00:32:04,424 and a majority of those kids were all in public school. 407 00:32:05,005 --> 00:32:07,205 And, you know, that Proverbs 22, 6, 408 00:32:07,205 --> 00:32:09,705 is to train up a child in the way he should go, 409 00:32:09,965 --> 00:32:12,165 even when he is old, he will not depart from it. 410 00:32:12,764 --> 00:32:14,384 And we always look at that in a positive, 411 00:32:14,505 --> 00:32:16,225 like, yeah, see, just come on, just do it. 412 00:32:16,225 --> 00:32:19,524 Like, keep pressing, keep putting that time into your kid 413 00:32:19,524 --> 00:32:20,824 because then they won't walk away from it. 414 00:32:20,945 --> 00:32:22,505 It goes both ways. 415 00:32:22,665 --> 00:32:24,564 If you don't, if you're not the person 416 00:32:24,564 --> 00:32:26,745 training up your kid all day long, 417 00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:29,965 and instead it's a secular school environment 418 00:32:29,965 --> 00:32:33,044 filled with pagan kids that are like the most rebellious 419 00:32:33,044 --> 00:32:35,985 you could possibly ever imagine, times 10. 420 00:32:35,985 --> 00:32:41,405 like they're also they're still receiving their training and it says they won't depart from it 421 00:32:41,405 --> 00:32:49,064 and it's like why are we surprised and and so at the the discipling is going to happen whether it's 422 00:32:49,064 --> 00:32:54,645 at home or or or in a public school and i'll also throw in the private schools private schools aren't 423 00:32:54,645 --> 00:32:58,764 the end they're not always the answer you can have private schools where 80 of the kids are 424 00:32:58,764 --> 00:33:03,684 unbelievers i would say that's going to produce the same result and from the conversations i've 425 00:33:03,684 --> 00:33:08,764 had, it produces the same result as a public school filled with pagan rebellious kids, 426 00:33:09,184 --> 00:33:14,544 but you're going to get the same result. And the shocking thing is, is when God steps in and 427 00:33:14,544 --> 00:33:20,965 intervenes and plucks that kid back out and says, nope, this one's mine. And that's my story. I was 428 00:33:20,965 --> 00:33:25,544 there. I went to public school. I was the rebellious kid. I was the last person in the world 429 00:33:25,544 --> 00:33:31,905 that any of my peers or anyone that I knew would say, you know, in 20 years, I can see Ryan talking 430 00:33:31,905 --> 00:33:38,044 about Jesus. Like, I was the last one. God just radically got a hold of my life. But it was a 431 00:33:38,044 --> 00:33:43,684 miracle. It wasn't because of a fruit of my discipleship and my training. So, I just, we 432 00:33:43,684 --> 00:33:49,405 can't, last thing, I just say we can't suspend the law of sowing and reaping when it comes to 433 00:33:49,405 --> 00:33:56,024 parenting. And I think we, parents love to take all the credit when, you know, some good fruit 434 00:33:56,024 --> 00:34:01,264 comes out, but then they'll, they'll, they'll be like Adam and they'll blame all the bad fruit on 435 00:34:01,264 --> 00:34:06,485 all sorts of things exterior and not take the responsibility. And I think that's a huge mistake. 436 00:34:08,185 --> 00:34:15,064 I'll do even one better. Uh, I know, I know homeschool kids who again, still went off the 437 00:34:15,064 --> 00:34:19,845 rails. And again, because you get like, even the homeschooling can be done in worldly ways. And 438 00:34:19,845 --> 00:34:24,584 like you, you can be doing homeschool stuff and do doing it in a way to produce bitterness and 439 00:34:24,584 --> 00:34:30,205 anger and all this kind of stuff in your kids. And so now, again, I think there's an analogous 440 00:34:30,205 --> 00:34:34,644 situation between maybe some of the conversation, the equivalence that people are going to try to 441 00:34:34,644 --> 00:34:44,604 draw between left and right violence. I would imagine the occurrence of the Christian homeschoolers 442 00:34:44,604 --> 00:34:49,444 walking away from the Lord is significantly less. The percentage is going to be, but it's not 443 00:34:49,444 --> 00:34:54,685 impossible. Um, but what now in the other, but the only other thing, Ryan, that I would push back on 444 00:34:54,685 --> 00:35:01,084 is what, what you experienced in what, to a large extent, what I experienced was not, was not a, 445 00:35:01,084 --> 00:35:07,245 a failure of the principle of sowing and reaping. It's that I had parents and people in my life 446 00:35:07,245 --> 00:35:12,685 who were sowing and reaping the living daylights out of prayers for my soul for years. And so, 447 00:35:12,685 --> 00:35:17,504 so like, so like that, that's what I'm saying is, but like, there are people I've talked to people 448 00:35:17,504 --> 00:35:22,885 who when they hear about the sowing and reaping framework and what they hear is like, it's all 449 00:35:22,885 --> 00:35:29,524 about my own sowing and reaping. And the reality is that like, I had godly like grandparents and 450 00:35:29,524 --> 00:35:33,325 all these kinds of people who were praying for me and like trying and praying the Lord would, 451 00:35:33,325 --> 00:35:39,665 you know, snatch my soul from Sheol, you know, basically. And so that would be the other thing 452 00:35:39,665 --> 00:35:46,425 would just be to encourage people is what we are not saying is that this is all about you as a 453 00:35:46,425 --> 00:35:51,024 parent and you need to have feel like, you know, you need to feel totally overwhelmed every second 454 00:35:51,024 --> 00:35:55,524 of every day, just over the fact that this is all on you. Like that's, that's a misinterpretation, 455 00:35:55,584 --> 00:36:00,144 a misunderstanding of what we're saying. Uh, at the same time, like this is, you know, God, 456 00:36:00,205 --> 00:36:05,024 God has ways and God has means and there's consequences to our actions. And so we wanted, 457 00:36:05,024 --> 00:36:11,524 we want to be good stewards and, and take, take, uh, take ownership over the responsibility. We 458 00:36:11,524 --> 00:36:18,845 don't want, again, to your point, we don't want to follow the first Adam and just blaming and 459 00:36:18,845 --> 00:36:24,325 passing the buck for his failures. We want to own up to our failures, both to the Lord and to 460 00:36:24,325 --> 00:36:31,284 our kids when we fail them. Again, a lot of this comes down to just to communicating that we are 461 00:36:31,284 --> 00:36:36,264 people under authority and communicating that, again, all of what all of the scripture says, 462 00:36:36,264 --> 00:36:41,484 the scriptures say that we can taste and see that in the Lord's presence, there's fullness of 463 00:36:41,484 --> 00:36:50,825 joy. Like, do your kids, do your kids see you finding joy in the Lord? Like, is there, like, 464 00:36:50,865 --> 00:36:56,044 is there actual joy when you're reading the scriptures and when you're worshiping the Lord 465 00:36:56,044 --> 00:37:00,665 and when you're singing to the Lord? Uh, we were, we were watching the, the Charlie Kirk thing is 466 00:37:00,665 --> 00:37:04,925 why I'm trying not to cry right now. Uh, we were watching the Charlie Kirk Memorial thing, which, 467 00:37:04,925 --> 00:37:18,217 I mean just nine hours just could not believe how long the thing was but uh but just so moving impactful in a hundred ways And I just remember that I was watching and they were singing a number of different songs 468 00:37:19,137 --> 00:37:23,777 And one of the songs, I shared it in the group with the other guys who were here. 469 00:37:24,157 --> 00:37:26,337 It's the song called The Blessing. 470 00:37:27,177 --> 00:37:33,057 And so it just repeats, you know, just the idea that may the Lord bless you and keep you. 471 00:37:33,057 --> 00:37:38,817 it's Deuteronomy six, the blessing of parents for children in Deuteronomy six. And so I'm sitting 472 00:37:38,817 --> 00:37:44,197 there, I mean, just bawling my eyes out and I have, I have kids on either side of me and I see 473 00:37:44,197 --> 00:37:49,857 out of the corner of my eye, my 10 year old, he's just like looking at me and he's just like watching 474 00:37:49,857 --> 00:37:55,237 his dad, his dad cry. And then like, you know, he kind of leans in on me. And, uh, and so it's 475 00:37:55,237 --> 00:37:58,937 just like, Oh, what I'm not trying to do is glorify that as the only kind of, you know, the only kind 476 00:37:58,937 --> 00:38:07,277 of emotion, but like, do you care about the Lord to the degree that it's evident to your kids 477 00:38:07,277 --> 00:38:12,377 in a way that's not just exploding on them when they do something that's wrong? 478 00:38:12,997 --> 00:38:21,637 Like, is there a positive passion that they see and a positive joy in and love for the Lord? 479 00:38:22,757 --> 00:38:27,737 I think for a lot of the people that I know who I think back and look at their lives and them 480 00:38:27,737 --> 00:38:33,017 walking away, Christianity, the sum total of Christianity for them, at least the emphasis 481 00:38:33,017 --> 00:38:35,337 of it was much more on the things that you're not doing. 482 00:38:36,357 --> 00:38:39,137 You know, like, and again, some of that could be, it could be well motivated. 483 00:38:39,257 --> 00:38:41,977 Like we don't, I don't want my kids to fall into this. 484 00:38:42,037 --> 00:38:47,097 And so we focus and we talk a lot about the negative side of things, but that is just 485 00:38:47,097 --> 00:38:48,377 such a trap to fall into. 486 00:38:48,377 --> 00:38:53,497 That is an insufficient accounting for, you know, what it means to be a Christian. 487 00:38:53,497 --> 00:39:10,237 I think you just summed up, I agree with you on the, I think the homeschooling is a more ideal environment to teach and train and disciple your children. 488 00:39:10,237 --> 00:39:24,897 But it's not like it's not a foolproof thing because, like you said, if there isn't this gospel air in your home where it's like the joy of the Lord isn't there, you can't fake that. 489 00:39:24,897 --> 00:39:34,577 You can check off the boxes and have your little program and your wife is on board and she's teaching the kids and you're keeping them from negative environments and things like that. 490 00:39:34,817 --> 00:39:36,377 You're putting them in a positive situation. 491 00:39:36,377 --> 00:39:40,537 But like you can't fake a love of the Lord. 492 00:39:41,357 --> 00:39:44,377 And like that gets picked up by the kids 100%. 493 00:39:44,377 --> 00:39:49,817 And so there has to be a genuine, there has to be life to our faith. 494 00:39:50,257 --> 00:39:51,717 And our kids will pick up on it. 495 00:39:51,957 --> 00:39:54,797 And there is no, oh, I'm just going to fake it. 496 00:39:55,617 --> 00:39:59,837 Dare I say in big families, which we encourage and Charlie did too, 497 00:40:00,737 --> 00:40:05,697 there's a danger too of getting worn out by the later ones. 498 00:40:06,377 --> 00:40:14,377 And I had a chance when I was in Italy a couple weeks ago, we met this pastor's daughter a couple years ago. 499 00:40:14,477 --> 00:40:18,737 She stayed with us in Hawaii, and we do work exchange, and we use that for ministry. 500 00:40:19,157 --> 00:40:23,657 And a lot of young people come through our home, and we got to meet her in Italy, of all things. 501 00:40:24,877 --> 00:40:31,157 And she was the youngest of a homeschool Christian family, and right now she's not walking in the faith. 502 00:40:31,497 --> 00:40:35,797 And her testimony, more or less, is like that. 503 00:40:35,797 --> 00:40:40,017 you know, like by the time she was born, the parents are kind of like tired and worn out and 504 00:40:40,017 --> 00:40:45,057 old. And like, she didn't get a sense that like, I would like to be like my folks when I grow up, 505 00:40:45,417 --> 00:40:50,777 you know, and I can say that was true for me too. In so many ways, my parents modeled, 506 00:40:51,137 --> 00:40:55,677 I wasn't homeschooled, but in so many ways, my parents modeled good things, 507 00:40:55,677 --> 00:41:03,477 but I never thought as a child, I want to become like my parents when I grow up. And that's a 508 00:41:03,477 --> 00:41:08,377 really sad thing to say. And it's not even that they were so bad. It's just, I didn't see something 509 00:41:08,377 --> 00:41:13,937 that I wanted to be like, you know? Um, and so it took years and miracles. And I think it just, 510 00:41:14,017 --> 00:41:20,477 to your point, I, I credit my grandma's prayers probably daily, I think with my salvation. Cause 511 00:41:20,477 --> 00:41:27,477 it was a miracle, you know? Um, so, so yeah, I'm not sure where I was going with that, but, uh, 512 00:41:27,477 --> 00:41:40,777 And yeah, I guess just what Ryan was saying, seeing in your folks that joy in the Lord and the repentance and the relationship between husband and wife and stuff like that. 513 00:41:40,857 --> 00:41:42,977 And I had a stark example of that. 514 00:41:42,977 --> 00:41:54,197 And in her life, my opinion, which is true of many other Christians I've known, is there's not really a better worldview to live in than the Christian worldview. 515 00:41:54,197 --> 00:42:02,217 so so often and maybe someone watching this you kind of just set it to the side you know i can 516 00:42:02,217 --> 00:42:06,857 think of my brother-in-law who came back to the faith and his testimony like he didn't really find 517 00:42:06,857 --> 00:42:13,037 something that like disproved christ he didn't really find a better way you just kind of set 518 00:42:13,037 --> 00:42:16,577 all that to the side because it was too much and you didn't get it and you didn't like it and you 519 00:42:16,577 --> 00:42:22,897 didn't want to be it and you just don't think about serious things for a long time and and when 520 00:42:22,897 --> 00:42:30,197 you come back around to it, the gospel is not just about the cross only. It is a full answer to 521 00:42:30,197 --> 00:42:36,257 all the questions of life. What are we here for? What went wrong? What should we hope for in the 522 00:42:36,257 --> 00:42:43,877 future? What can we do to help bring that about? Teleology, ontology, and all the other things 523 00:42:43,877 --> 00:42:49,597 are contained in the biblical worldview. And there isn't anything that comes close to answering 524 00:42:49,597 --> 00:42:57,417 those questions as what God says in the word of God. So yeah, I pray that as we have more kids 525 00:42:57,417 --> 00:43:03,497 and you're on four now, is that right, Jordan? Five. Okay. I wasn't sure if it was four or five. 526 00:43:03,577 --> 00:43:10,957 Yeah. Congrats. But, um, so we, we're what the world would call large families and, uh, God forbid 527 00:43:10,957 --> 00:43:17,537 that I run out of energy or I fail to, um, I fail to assess that like these things were okay when I 528 00:43:17,537 --> 00:43:24,137 had two, but now I can't do that when I have six, you know, and not being sensitive to our situation. 529 00:43:26,257 --> 00:43:27,997 God forbid that that would happen. 530 00:43:31,117 --> 00:43:35,617 Yeah, I want to, it brings to mind real quick, it brings to mind Hebrews 2.1. 531 00:43:36,617 --> 00:43:41,397 It says, we must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we've heard so that we do not 532 00:43:41,397 --> 00:43:46,457 drift away. And there's another verse where it talks about people who've drifted away from the 533 00:43:46,457 --> 00:43:51,957 truth. And, and I remember hearing a sermon one time from a pastor who was like, I remember he's 534 00:43:51,957 --> 00:43:56,557 basically said, it's like, how do you drift from the truth? He's like, no one's like, no one drifts 535 00:43:56,557 --> 00:44:05,297 away from the truth that the sky is blue. Like you don't drift away from that truth, but the, 536 00:44:05,297 --> 00:44:13,097 the, the gospel is, is like, it's the truth is a person. And so you can drift away from a person, 537 00:44:13,097 --> 00:44:18,317 Your relationship with a person can degrade over time through neglect and stuff. 538 00:44:18,977 --> 00:44:22,617 And so that's kind of what we're talking about, what we're getting at. 539 00:44:22,857 --> 00:44:24,017 So I know we need to end. 540 00:44:24,117 --> 00:44:25,557 I think this has been awesome so far. 541 00:44:25,797 --> 00:44:33,737 I wonder if I could just throw out an idea and some topics for next time that'll get people's interests and get us kind of thinking. 542 00:44:33,737 --> 00:44:39,037 because though we haven't mentioned Bitcoin yet on this call, 543 00:44:39,477 --> 00:44:43,217 I think it actually is very key to the issue. 544 00:44:43,577 --> 00:44:47,197 If you go, so Anthony Bradley is recognizing, 545 00:44:47,617 --> 00:44:50,337 here's this issue, young people are falling away from the Lord. 546 00:44:50,897 --> 00:44:52,457 So that's the effect. 547 00:44:52,597 --> 00:44:54,157 What's upstream of that? 548 00:44:54,937 --> 00:44:56,857 Where is that issue coming from? 549 00:44:56,857 --> 00:45:03,697 And I would argue that fiat monetary decisions and debasement 550 00:45:03,697 --> 00:45:09,817 and worldly fiat influences like feminism 551 00:45:09,817 --> 00:45:16,617 and how the economics and the feminist ideology interact 552 00:45:16,617 --> 00:45:20,077 to tear apart the biblical family. 553 00:45:20,797 --> 00:45:26,597 And if you either go into a ton of debt as a college student, 554 00:45:27,017 --> 00:45:28,977 particularly as a gal, 555 00:45:29,337 --> 00:45:33,417 and then you get this corporate kind of ladder mindset 556 00:45:33,417 --> 00:45:38,377 that now maybe you get married, but you don't want to have kids or you have kids, but you're 557 00:45:38,377 --> 00:45:42,697 going to send them to daycare because your career is very important. And why is it important? Well, 558 00:45:42,757 --> 00:45:48,677 because you got into a big mortgage and you bought into a consumeristic lifestyle. But why did you 559 00:45:48,677 --> 00:45:53,317 do that? Well, it's because of fiat money printing and consumerism. And then maybe even you're 560 00:45:53,317 --> 00:45:59,877 actually really frugal, but money just doesn't go as far as it used to go. Well, that's also 561 00:45:59,877 --> 00:46:04,117 monetary debasement. And so you need two incomes in order just to pay the simple bills and have a 562 00:46:04,117 --> 00:46:14,157 simple lifestyle. And so everything is pushing to divide the family, outsource education to the 563 00:46:14,157 --> 00:46:20,817 state, outsource discipleship to the church, because mom and dad are so busy and they're both 564 00:46:20,817 --> 00:46:28,577 working jobs and they're just trying to make ends meet and life is too difficult. And saving for 565 00:46:28,577 --> 00:46:35,257 retirement is just a dream or maybe uh maybe you're wealthy but again it's all going to consumerism 566 00:46:35,257 --> 00:46:43,237 and to a a type of lifestyle that you think you need to attain to uh and meanwhile i mean i i think 567 00:46:43,237 --> 00:46:51,777 of i saw this uh this post from years ago of uh the charlie kirk assassin and it was him with like 568 00:46:51,777 --> 00:46:57,077 his gaming headphones on sitting at his computer and and the the comment from the parents it was 569 00:46:57,077 --> 00:47:03,117 like a facebook post from the parents saying now that so-and-so has his all his computer accessories 570 00:47:03,117 --> 00:47:11,037 he wants we hardly see him anymore yeah yeah yeah yeah like look at him look at how he's got his 571 00:47:11,037 --> 00:47:17,477 gaming thing on and he's got and it's like look where that led mom and dad look where that led 572 00:47:17,477 --> 00:47:22,817 yeah well and also the post like the fact that they would praise that is just an admission that 573 00:47:22,817 --> 00:47:24,117 they're not taking responsibility. 574 00:47:24,297 --> 00:47:25,397 Well, it's out of my control. 575 00:47:25,517 --> 00:47:26,257 He's just ended up. 576 00:47:26,297 --> 00:47:26,977 He just ended up. 577 00:47:27,057 --> 00:47:28,517 This is his path. 578 00:47:28,637 --> 00:47:29,997 He's a free spirit. 579 00:47:30,317 --> 00:47:33,317 And it's like, dude, from the beginning of time, 580 00:47:33,397 --> 00:47:35,137 parents have not wanted to take responsibility 581 00:47:35,137 --> 00:47:36,277 and nothing's changed. 582 00:47:37,637 --> 00:47:40,877 And again, it's the attitude and the standard of, 583 00:47:40,957 --> 00:47:42,737 well, this isn't that bad, right? 584 00:47:42,797 --> 00:47:44,857 It's like, this isn't that bad to be on the computer. 585 00:47:44,937 --> 00:47:46,457 Look, there's nothing inherently sinful 586 00:47:46,457 --> 00:47:48,537 or wrong about being on a computer, right? 587 00:47:48,737 --> 00:47:50,197 Computers are just neutral, right? 588 00:47:50,197 --> 00:48:15,917 And it's just, it's completely missing a humongous part of just the reality of how life and how life works and how education works and how people are formed. And so, yeah, it's just a lack of intentionality and understanding, which we can be sympathetic to and still uncompromising in saying that this is a problem and something that people should take really seriously. 589 00:48:15,917 --> 00:48:18,497 we have to cut off there 590 00:48:18,497 --> 00:48:20,737 I am actually going to be with my family and going to get 591 00:48:20,737 --> 00:48:22,657 pictures taken so that's why 592 00:48:22,657 --> 00:48:24,637 I'm looking way better dressed than all 593 00:48:24,637 --> 00:48:26,257 these guys here we 594 00:48:26,257 --> 00:48:28,417 appreciate you we appreciate 595 00:48:28,417 --> 00:48:30,597 exactly raising the standard 596 00:48:30,597 --> 00:48:32,617 here guys we're raising the standard 597 00:48:32,617 --> 00:48:34,037 okay you guys can slum it 598 00:48:34,037 --> 00:48:35,317 I did 599 00:48:35,317 --> 00:48:38,597 I did man I never do this so 600 00:48:38,597 --> 00:48:40,657 so now we are 601 00:48:40,657 --> 00:48:42,757 grateful for you guys and your continued support 602 00:48:42,757 --> 00:48:44,797 if you have found this helpful like subscribe 603 00:48:44,797 --> 00:48:48,897 leave a review and all the places where you can do that. 604 00:48:49,077 --> 00:48:52,737 We will see you on Thursday with a special guest. 605 00:48:52,917 --> 00:48:55,917 We'll have Jim and Tim with us, Ashwa and I, 606 00:48:56,037 --> 00:48:57,957 and then a special guest who we will, 607 00:48:58,057 --> 00:48:59,817 actually we'll mention right now, Scott Yenner. 608 00:49:00,917 --> 00:49:02,097 Scott Yenner's a professor. 609 00:49:02,437 --> 00:49:03,737 He's a really thoughtful guy, 610 00:49:04,017 --> 00:49:09,917 done a lot of stuff in the area of family and culture and politics. 611 00:49:10,117 --> 00:49:11,437 And so he's going to join us 612 00:49:11,437 --> 00:49:14,057 and we're going to have a really good conversation with him. 613 00:49:14,057 --> 00:49:15,197 So we'll look forward to that on Thursday. 614 00:49:15,637 --> 00:49:19,817 We'll see you all on episode 31 to come of To The Unknown Pod. 615 00:49:20,077 --> 00:49:22,377 Ryan, Matt, and Ashwa, thank you guys. 616 00:49:22,457 --> 00:49:22,837 Appreciate you.