And we are live. Welcome back to episode 39 of To The Unknown Pod, a TGFB podcast. My name is
Jordan Bush. I'm the director of TGFB Media, which exists to help all people, and especially
Christians, use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere. I am joined today
by two thirds of the Iowan boys who I will allow to introduce themselves now. My name is Matt
Purvis. I'm in the Big Island of Hawaii pastoring and also operating a business or two and have done
that for many years and believe in business as mission. I'm Ryan Finley, a former resident of
the Big Island of Hawaii, now in Oregon, father of six, doing a lot of entrepreneurial projects
with my boys. For those of you who are just joining us today for the first time, that is why
We call them the Island Boys.
I have never lived or even been in Hawaii, but the other three guys who are normally on this podcast have all lived there and ministered there at various points.
So we are back today.
And I don't look very tan.
Despite living in a sunny place, I spend most of my time inside writing or responding to things, email, all this kind of stuff.
But I just got back from spending a week in El Salvador, Bitcoin country, Bitcoin Beach, all of the Bitcoin things.
I had a great time with Ashwa Hawthorne.
We both got invited to go down and take part in the Bitcoin Beach Global Circular Economy Summit that they did.
And we are going to discuss the events and all the stuff that happened there and all of our takeaways on the next episode when Ashwa returns.
Ashwa is taking care of some family business today.
So look forward to that.
Something that we just had a blast, saw the Lord do some really cool things.
Just so much, so much that we could talk about.
And so we want to save that for to have two minds who were there remembering the most salient bits rather than just mine.
So look forward to that later.
Um, before we get into this, today's episode, which I will, I mean, you can read the title
there, uh, episode 39, hope in the face of despair, uh, Epstein and Bitcoin.
And then later in a little bit.
So that that's going to be, I mean, we, we're, I don't know if you can see behind me over
here on this side, you can see the block clock shout out to Chester, uh, ginger Sherpa who
made these things.
Uh, if you haven't seen those, go check out block clock, Google it, you'll find it.
but Bitcoin, there's blood in the streets
blood in the streets
did you ever think that you would say
blood in the streets
over $75,000 Bitcoin
oh the sky is falling
so there's a lot of people
who have a lot of questions
who are, a lot of us are fielding questions
from friends, family members
who are like
is this quantum computing
should we all just sell our Bitcoin?
is Bitcoin crashing?
this is literally what always happens
the cycle theorists rejoiced
we are, here we are back
we were down 44% I believe from the all-time high so we're gonna you know talk about some of that
here in a minute we're also a few days removed from another release of Epstein documents even
more insane and disgusting than or every bit as insane and disgusting involving more explicit
details about powerful people than we've ever had before so again we're not going to go super
into detail and on a lot of the lurid details if you're listening to this with with little ones in
the car so don't don't have any fear there uh but we're still just going to kind of just chat about
that a little bit uh and just the overall just things that are going on a lot of um there's just
a lot of stuff going on around the world and in our lives that you know could just you know because
there's been nothing done about i've seen because you know of all these things in our lives it just
to be easy to get overwhelmed and to despair.
And so we're going to talk about how do we deal with that.
So we will get there in a second.
We're going to finish with a conversation with Moses Finley,
the son of the offspring of one of the three of us sitting here.
I'll let you try to figure out which one of it.
And Moses is a friend of the program.
Moses is a full stack developer who, for the last number of months,
has been using AI to leverage his coding abilities.
and so we're going to talk to him about the crazy story of this molt bot AI agent takeover
that was dominating almost literally every single story on my feed a couple days ago.
We're going to get his perspective on what is going on, what is real, how do we discern what was actually going on here
versus what was just said to be going on, what are some of the incentives involved.
Moses will be back at a future episode to kind of talk more about the AI programming revolution and his thoughts on that.
So we're pumped to have him later in a little bit once he's working on something and he'll join us after we or once we get to that point.
So I do want to just remind you of a couple of things that are coming up to ways to support TGFB.
For those of you who did not know, maybe this is you've been under a rock and you've just emerged.
Well, welcome. Welcome into the light.
TGFB for the last three and a half years has been operating as a for-profit business.
We've been doing our best not to, you know, our goal in starting this was, hey, let's go out there, go hard, try to make this into a successful, you know, for-profit business.
And that way, you know, if we don't need to receive donations and that kind of stuff from other people, there can be donations that can go to all kinds of other deserving projects around the world.
And so, you know, with that said, over the last few years, as we've tried to, you know, make this work and tried to just do things from a for-profit standpoint, there were things that just sacrifices that we weren't or trade-offs that we weren't willing to make in order in just the name of making as much profit as possible.
And so a number of months ago, in talking with Jimmy and some of the other investors, we made the decision to go non-profit.
And so TGFB is going to be coming under the wing of Brilliance Labs, which is a small innovation lab that's empowering, using Bitcoin to empower all kinds of projects across the world, as well as in the United States, in the town where Joshua lives.
And so we are going to be working together.
Could not be more excited about it, honestly.
Working together with a team.
I've been trying to do this, not all by myself.
There's been plenty of people who have volunteered and helped along the way.
So I'm not trying to insinuate that at all.
But just it's, you know, being able to work together with other guys with corresponding
skill sets where we can overlap for each other, some of each other's weaknesses.
I could not be more excited about that.
And so that, if you want to learn more about that decision, let's see here.
You can go to decision what it entails and how to support us.
you can go to brilliancelabs.com slash TGFB.
We have a video.
Again, in hindsight, it just was kind of amazing
to see the Lord kind of repairing this decision.
We actually did this incredible video together
three years ago, two and a half years ago,
or I guess two years ago,
when Ashwa and I went to El Salvador.
You can watch this video there.
Just phenomenal job.
Shout out to Caleb Goodnight.
He's a friend of ours who made it.
Went with us.
And so then this is like an intro to Brilliance Labs, intro to me, what we're doing.
And then here down here, you can give, again, if you want to give dirty fiat, feel free.
We will help you wash your hands of that filth.
If you also want to give the much, much greater, if you want to give Bitcoin, you can do Bitcoin on chain or on lightning, give crypto or stocks.
Any of these things can allow us to continue our work.
We've raised about a quarter of the money that we need to finish, basically to get through the end of the year.
And so we would greatly appreciate your prayers and your donations to help us continue that work.
So that's that thing right there.
The other couple of things that we have, again, we just last month, finally, after many, much time of work and many years of work, we launched the Orange Umbrella.
this is our our kids book uh that uh me and a buddy named jd wrote and so here we can see right
here here's our our website this is uh our the different things that we have available we have
number one we have the orange umbrella this is our kids book available both in hardcover
and in paperback uh for those of you who are wondering wow what does that actually look like
well i'm glad you asked let's see here so we have a paperback cover right here super high quality
very thick, very premium paper. Just a whole lot of good stuff going on there. Then we have a
hardcover version as well. This is the highest quality hardcover you're going to find. Very
well put together with sewn bindings, with very good quality dust jackets and the like. I'll also
be signing every book that's ordered. So if that's something that interests you and you want to
support TGFB indirectly in those ways you can do that. We also, given that we'd already done all
of the, or our artists had already done all of the line art for the book, we just said, hey,
why don't we just create a coloring book that has all of the, has all the text from the book,
but just removes the, removes the, all of the color. And so you can, if you want to make
improvements or whatever, you want your kids to take part in the coloring of the Orange Umbrella.
We have the Orange Umbrella coloring book, which is right here on the screen.
We also have the second edition of TGFB.
I could not be more excited about this.
This is, guys, if you've read the initial copy, again, I always tell people,
we thought that us and our moms were going to really enjoy,
we're going to really enjoy Think Over Beacon when we first published.
We didn't spend tons of money and resources to try to perfect this thing.
We just put it out there.
So hopefully that can be an encouragement for some of your projects
If you're waiting for perfection to release a project, don't do that.
Just get it out there in the world.
But now that it's been out for five years, we just celebrated the fifth year anniversary.
We decided, hey, let's spend a little money to get a little more professional typesetting.
Let's do another cover redesign.
And so that is available for pre-order right now.
We had anticipated already having this long done for the last, probably a month ago.
We were expecting to have this done.
but the fine folks over there at Amazon
have been making our lives miserable
as we've tried to satisfy their desires
to prove that we are indeed who we say we are.
So we are still working to get that done.
In the meantime, you can pre-order
and pre-order that right here.
We also have our book,
obviously the Gospel According to Bitcoin.
We found a lot of people enjoy.
So go ahead and read that one as well.
You can pick up those
and to encourage you to, again,
just make these orders. We have a 25% off code right now. If you use promo code PLANB,
all capitalized, PLANB, five letters, you can get 25% off of anything in the store except for
our last thing before we get started here is the TGFB 26 conference in Fort Worth.
This is going to be our first conference or first proper conference in almost two years.
we did 2024 in Nashville and this year because the Bitcoin conference is going to be in Vegas
and many of you have reached out and said hey I don't really have an interest in going to Vegas
we decided all right we're going to go and we'll partner with Bitblock Boom we'll do our event
the year or the day before with them there and so if you go to if you go to tgfb.com slash
conference you can find you know that a place where it gives you a little bit more information
You click on buy tickets and it'll take you to ZapRite where you can pay with Bitcoin or fiat.
Early bird prices right now, you can get those, including one ticket with a merch bundle.
If you have pastors or other ministry leaders who you'd like to bring, email us and we're happy to get you a promo code to get discounted tickets for them.
So please let us know.
We'd love to see you.
We're going to be doing this a couple, one or two more things.
we're going to do one or more or one or two more,
one more event.
That's basically going to be a fundraiser for TGFB.
It's probably going to be a dinner.
It's going to be a dinner.
One of the nights of Bitblock Boom.
So we will be releasing more information about that.
And boom,
shill over.
That was about seven minutes of full on shilling.
But again,
we're happy to do it because we were grateful for you guys.
And we know that you guys are eager to get resources that you could put into
the hands of uh the people in your life in your own hands your own kids and all this kind of thing
so with that being said we are done let's do this uh let's see stop sharing that's what i'm trying
to do and now let's get into the episode here so we uh basically a lot of stuff in news we mentioned
epstein so let's kind of start right there unless i'll give i've been talking a lot let me ask you
guys is is there anything i forgot anything you guys think we ought to mention before we
hop into FC. Yeah, I'm ready. Yeah, great. So let's, let's launch into FC. And so
what a horrible sentiment to have to have to say. So again, we're not going to get into crazy
details, but we do just want to kind of talk about, there was a giant release of FC documents
over the last few, you know, I guess it was middle of the week last week or Thursday. I think it was
Thursday. Thursday or Friday, a bunch of documents dumped and just a staggering amount of new
information about Epstein, about people who are involved in Epstein, a whole new group of people
who were found to be in communicating with him. There is a whole bunch of disturbing things,
disturbing information, disturbing pictures, images. Those are the same thing. Images, videos,
whole bunch of stuff. And I will say one of the things that I'll mention is while we were in,
I was in El Salvador at the Plan B conference when these came out. And as we're sitting there,
I mean, people were just quickly, because we're there, searching Bitcoin in the Epstein documents.
And we're finding, let's see if I'll share this here. We found there was quite a few actually
mentions of Bitcoin in the Epstein documents.
So we have Epstein talking about, this is Epstein, or is this Joe Ito?
Joey Ito.
He's basically talking about there was a problem like the Bitcoin Foundation went bankrupt.
Can you guys read this?
I can see it.
Okay.
So the Bitcoin Foundation went bankrupt.
And so he's describing many organizations scrambled to step into the vacuum created by the foundation
and quote-unquote take control of the developers.
We, whoever this is, we move quickly,
talking to all of the various stakeholders,
and the three developers decided to join the Media Lab,
which is apparently something that Paul,
or I mean, what's his name?
Joey has something to do with.
This is a big win for us.
So this us, we, people were very concerned of like,
okay, wait a second.
Does this mean that the Bitcoin devs were co-opted?
Bitcoin's been owned and operated by potentially a party that Epstein is close to.
That's what's going on.
There's a hundred other things.
People were quick to, people including Bruce Fenton were quick to debunk the idea that,
you know, Epstein influenced Bitcoin development.
No, it's not that bad.
Then we have this right here, friend of the program, Mike Germano.
Shout out to Mike.
Jeffrey Epstein didn't launder his horrors using Bitcoin.
He relied on bank accounts at JPMorgan Chase, HSBC and Deutsche Bank to pay for his crimes.
But those institutions have elite PR machines working overtime to shift the conversation.
Never forget who banked him.
There's also a bunch of documents in here about Jamie Dimon, who said under oath that he had never met Jeffrey Epstein.
That is unless he's going to try to pull a Clinton and say that, oh, I never met him in person or something along those lines.
There's tons of correspondence between them.
100 different things going on here You know this could be people speculating is this part of the reason Bitcoin price is falling Bitcoin price has fallen you know
$15,000 in the last few days here.
There's just a bunch of stuff going on.
Adam Back was mentioned in the Epstein files.
Ironically, I gave a copy of the orange umbrella
to Adam Back at a picture taken with him.
And then literally later that day,
find out he's in the Epstein files.
And so just a whole bunch of crazy stuff going on.
I'm going to give you guys a chance to respond.
What were your thoughts when you saw these files drop?
Yeah, I mean, they're very disturbing just from what I've been,
you know, the bits and pieces I've seen.
Yeah, I mean, as far as the connection to Bitcoin,
I don't think there's a ton to it.
I think more than anything, you realize that there's an enormous network of powerful people.
It's usually centered around money, like always, but also just power around the world.
And it was the most despicable, twisted network you can imagine.
Everyone's all, they got sucked into it and all sorts of leverage and they would commit crimes.
And then there would be evidence of them.
and then whatever they call that, a honeypot.
And I just think Bitcoin is such a significant,
it's like a financial atomic bomb that went off
when it got released into the world.
Everyone in the financial space,
which there's a lot of people that were in the Epstein files,
are in the financial world.
It just went on their radar immediately,
and you can see there seems to be a lot of discussion about it.
Yeah.
anyways uh i don't think there's i don't think there's a lot there kind of like what mike germano
said uh much more disturbing is the existing financial system and how it just openly supported
uh and facilitated a lot of the wickedness that you you see in the epstein files um
yeah let me let me add one thing one of the one of the things i i we could find this file but
we don't need to. One of the things you see is that Epstein was critical of Bitcoin.
He's saying like there's limitations. He was like trying to point out some of the limitations.
And so one of the things you should see is that over and over again, Epstein, just like a lot of
Bitcoin critics, they, you know, there's things that they don't like about it, that it can't do
some of the things that they want to do. And so rather than, you know, submit themselves to what
Bitcoin is, they kind of move on to other projects where they can exercise more control and they can
get, you know, more, whether it's a greater stake or, you know, whatever it is. So that was one
thing. Let me just share a couple of these. Again, this isn't like a lot of details. We've got Ben
Justman, friend of the program, go buy Peony Lane wine. Ben said this, let me get this straight.
Let's see here. So let me get this straight. Epstein didn't use Bitcoin because it was too
transparent and opted to use JP Morgan and said, yes, yes, Ben. That's exactly what we're saying.
uh again access to cash and the the most you know biggest most influential on the u.s government
and uh arguably the most corrupt bank in the world uh you know able to do that then we also had this
uh we had this uh here we go that's not it it's this one right here okay so from bitcoin or uncle
Doomer. Here we go. Uncle Doomer. There was one of the emails we have in one of the emails. We
have Jeffrey Epstein's assistant. Oh, shoot. Sorry. Jeffrey Epstein's assistant buying a single
unlabeled $8,453 item from Wayfair. We don't have. Okay, we don't have what this was. This
is bringing to mind for a lot of people, including. Including, let's see where to go, including
Uncle Doomer here. Every conspiracy
theory is real. That's obviously a reference to
the Wayfair conspiracy theory from
a number of years ago where people logged
onto Wayfair and they saw these pieces of furniture
that you could find other places
for much cheaper that were listed
for $8,000, $10,000
whatever and they had
very weird names
like they were names of children
and there were some people
who were trying to tie them together, tie the names
together with missing persons but this
is just really weird. All right. This is, it's very similar to, uh, Pizzagate, uh, all the
references, there's tons of pizza references in these emails, uh, which again, we, everyone knows
what those are referencing, referencing at this point, tons of pizza references, uh, tons of pizza
references in, uh, John Podesta's emails as well. These are not accidents, uh, tons of, of disturbing
things. Let's see. There's one more. I think there's one more. Yeah, this is one, uh, this is
This is a tweet that I retweeted this.
So we had Ted Downing Street, which is obviously basically like the –
not the British White House, but it's where the prime minister's office is.
Peter Mendelsohn, who is very influential, he was the business secretary at the time.
In 2010, he sends Jeffrey Epstein an email, says,
sources tell me in relation to the financial, like a Euro bailout, the Euro was going to fail
or was looking very weak. And they get a $500 billion Euro bailout. He, again, just gets this
information, promptly emails it immediately to Jeffrey Epstein, says it's almost complete.
Epstein creepily asked if he's home. And then he says, just leaving number 10, which is 10 Downing
street the prime minister's office will call so i mean this is bonkers and this is why uh here's
my retreat of this the u.s business secretary leaves 10 downing street with news of a bailout
and the first person he calls i'm sorry yeah uk and the first person he calls is jeffrey epstein
okay this is insanely weird so yeah we have this going reminiscent of a politician u.s politician
who during a congressional Senate hearing is getting talking points from Epstein in real time.
So this guy was connected, insanely well connected to politicians in the United States, politicians in the UK.
There's things, there's emails that show connections to Putin and Russia and also obviously former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak.
So this guy was insanely well connected to people at the highest positions of power and had access and a level of importance to them where he's one of the first people to get information as these giant news events are happening.
We'll do one more here.
Let's see.
We already did that one.
So, yeah, again, we could do literally 100 more.
And this, Ryan, you mentioned this is part of the problem is there's just so much that it's almost overwhelming and arguably desensitizing.
I'll let you kind of elaborate on that.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, you can't, I mean, there's like thousands more and it's more horrific than you can imagine.
It's like all, yeah, like they said, all the conspiracy theories are true.
and um and then you know as christians we want justice and we want this to come to light
and then at the same time um no one's been like no one's been brought to justice
like all of the very wealthy powerful mostly men have not been held accountable at all
there's been no arrests uh there's a couple i think there's what was it one romanian
politicians step down from this like the country the country shamed him out of politics this
happened two days ago so i was like oh that's good that's a healthy immune response from romania
um nothing ever happens to american politicians like we're we're so far gone our yeah our culture
is so wicked that you can have the most heinous monstrous thing like honestly this is like there's
There's probably nothing ever that's like this that's been publicly disclosed for the
world, for Americans to hear in our country's history.
And it's very likely that nothing will happen.
I mean, Bill Gates' name's been dragged through the mud and things like that, and a bunch
of other people.
But again, it's like, oh, but he's on the left.
So, you know, well, half the country is not going to say a peep.
Right?
And then the other half will.
But then it's on partisan lines.
So then the media is bringing up Elon Musk.
I mean, it's just the whole response is just on script.
And, yeah, it's discouraging.
because um but um yeah i mean just to be clear like there are there's references made to to trump
there's references you know made to you know other other people you know other politicians as well
again there's accusations levied against trump of of awful things uh that weren't deemed credible
enough to to respond to but again like who knows why that was depending on when these things you
know uh when these critiques were made so again it's this is not this is not meant to be like a
you know a total like this is not meant to be a man the left they're they're you know right and
they're wrong and the the left is just or the right is spotless it's not that yeah not at all
um but no i mean look at trump's response i mean you have one politician or i think there's two
thomas macy he's trying to get he's trying to bring this out into the light which is good
and Trump is literally going scorched earth,
trying to smote him off the face of the earth.
And you're like, oh, that's interesting.
Like Trump was in, he's listed in these files.
Like he slowly themselves, like who knows?
Like honestly.
It's amazing.
Because the gears of the law requires,
it can't be circumstantial.
It has to be, you know, so even if we were to say
Like a 99% chance, more than nine, let's just say it's more than 99 that Bill Gates was involved in like illegal activities.
You still have to have someone who comes and says, I was a witness and we're charging him.
And so that's part of the frustration is you have to get a lot of things together in order to get justice.
So you can get social shaming and maybe exclusion, which is appropriate too.
but it's going to be tough because you're going to have to have either the victims
or witnesses or whatever.
There's going to be video.
It sounds like they did get all the victims.
It was a New York case and they interviewed like 10 of them
and they got all the names and everything like that.
The whole point is they've already done that,
including some of the witnesses that have since basically killed themselves.
probably because they found out that the whole justice system is a mockery.
And even after getting all, like, they have all the evidence.
That's why they're not releasing the files, all the files.
Like, we haven't seen, I think this is like, we haven't seen anything yet.
So it's, we have, like, we're basically living through,
it's a two-tiered justice system.
Like, if you're wealthy and powerful, and if you're depraved enough,
like, you're above the law, basically.
And I think the masses are fine.
Like, I mean, this is unmasking it more than I've ever seen.
And it's very disturbing.
Yeah.
I mean, I read this and I just burn it all down.
Both parties, like, I mean, literally.
I think literally we need a massive purge of almost all of our politicians.
Yeah.
That's how corrupt.
And not just politicians, but also everyone's finding out that it was Hollywood as well and things like that.
Yeah, the first mention of leadership in the Bible, qualifications, I think the first mention is when Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, talks to Moses and he says, first things he says, choose men who hate a bribe and who fear God.
So that's the basis.
who should be leading other people.
They hate bribes and they fear God.
So apply that to what we see in our landscape.
And, you know, power, I saw a recent post
that I thought it was a good framing.
You know, it's not just that power corrupts,
but power attracts corrupt people, you know,
because the corrupt people want to have power
over their fellow man.
Whereas in many cases,
people who just want to live their lives and have a family and start a business and maybe try to do
some positive effect in the world, many people like that aren't really interested in having power
over their fellow man because they're already content with taking care of their family and
taking care of their small community. And in a certain way, this is a call for people like that
to say, you need to run for higher office, actually. Maybe serve your time and go back
if you're that person in it.
Go ahead.
This is why back in our,
early in our country's history,
you used to have to profess your faith in God
to be in political office.
And the reason they did that,
it wasn't, like, it was because,
like, ultimately, when you are electing a politician,
you're electing someone that's going to end up
ruling over you,
and they need to have someone ruling over them.
It's a hierarchy of, like, exactly.
You need that, that they're not going to be a terror and they're not going to be taking bribes and they're not going to literally seek your destruction.
And so this whole, you know, this whole nation of the separation of church and state, like we're seeing this like, oh, Christians shouldn't talk about politics.
And it's like, literally, there is no good politician about Christians, as we're starting to see.
Like, literally, if someone doesn't have a fear of God, you get what we get.
You see what we get.
Even if you're not a total, you're not a total, like total destruction.
Yeah. And even, even someone who's not quite a Christian,
at least if you have this understanding that there's a judge and you might be
judged, maybe you're not, you know, there's this,
this idea of I'm going to be held to a higher court than just my fellow man,
you know? And you know, something that I read a long time ago,
an article about Chinese politics.
And it was this guy who got into the higher echelons of business and politics, because there it's all mixed.
Well, here it is too.
And he was talking about how once you get to a certain level, you're going to have to participate in these lewd, drunken reveling, basically.
And nobody says like, hey, we're going to take you to this party and you have to get massively drunk and then we're going to bring the girls in.
But that's what they do.
and this is the point I'm making is it's a universal thing this is true in the medieval
times this is true go back as far as you want what we're seeing now is a huge uncovering
so anybody who thought it was a little more tame than it really is is realizing it's not only
Epstein it's all these people and this is true for uh you know an example would be like if you
go to the mob you have to do certain little menial tasks and then little by little they start
introducing you to the violence and they introduce it to you to the point where, like in the movie
Donnie Brasco, you know, they bring him to the, where they're going to murder some people, but he
stays in the car Right And then another and then later on he has to come and help dispose of the evidence And then that leads into where you going to become a murderer but now you already committed crimes And it just you know what I mean
It's like that kind of system.
And so in the article he was talking about, in that system,
you will not advance farther than that ceiling
if you don't take part in those kinds of things.
They order you another round of drinks you don't drink.
That's a ceiling.
And you have to be willing to accept that.
And what we're seeing here is, in part, a universal human principle of evil that we're being able to see right now.
And it's crazy.
Thinking if I was in 2010 and I was one of these guys, even in 2000, you have no idea what the Internet is going to be like in 2025, 26.
Even in 2010, you have no idea what the Internet is going to be.
This is like the beginning of Facebook.
You know what I mean?
You couldn't even find this stuff.
Even if it existed, you wouldn't be able to find it.
and they would be able to shut it down.
And they're older.
Yeah, and so you can't even fathom.
And then not only that, AI.
So you release millions of documents or whatever,
and instead of having to read through each one,
you can ask AI, where's this word found?
What about this? What about that?
This is all absolutely brand-new phenomenon
that these guys were not being careful in a 2026 sense
because you had no concept it would even be like this back then.
you know um you know and i could i could i share that video i had an idea of do it yeah go for it
it's probably like it's probably less than 30 seconds i'm gonna introduce the video but in my
opinion based on what i'm seeing and i haven't dove in deep but just in in the whole story you
know i do think it's true that epstein is not like a top guy i think he's uh it looks to me like he is
connected to these intelligence agencies, probably more than one. And he was running honey traps.
And he's not exactly a pawn, but he's probably someone who accepted his role is he's going to
have unlimited money, unlimited access to do the wicked things he wants to do. I'm not a doctor,
but I would say he's a psychopath, meaning he doesn't have empathy or able to feel what other
people are feeling. And the, the, the, the video I'm going to show is a confrontation. It's in the
1999 movie payback with Mel Gibson. And it's a mob, a leader in the mob confronting one of his
lower guys, who's the antagonist in the movie and telling him, I hope you understand what your value
is and explaining what his value is as a violent person. So let me share here. Cause I think it
applies to, I think it applies to Epstein.
So here's the, this is the guy who's the, basically the sadist, and then he's going
to be confronted by the mob boss.
Here's his file, Mr. Clowney.
Do you understand your value to the organization, Resnick?
You're a sadist.
You lack compunction.
That comes in handy.
But now you've allowed the general and personal life to be a danger.
A man in our organization...
he goes on to say basically you need to handle this on your own because you've allowed a
personal part of your life to become a danger to the organization and i'm not sure if that last part
is true of epstein it could be because he ended up becoming one of their sacrificial lambs or i
guess sacrificial goat you know in his case but um i thought it reminded me of that because um
I'll stop sharing the screen.
I think that's kind of the position he was in.
When it came time that everything's coming clean, coming clear and open,
he had to be put down or, you know, faked it.
I don't know if that's true or not.
But in the end, he's probably a psycho,
and that means if you tell him what to do,
he doesn't have the normal compunction or hesitation
that you or I would have towards doing something horrible.
And he also has appetites of his own of what he wants to do.
And that's why I think that's kind of the position he's in.
Yeah, there's not the same.
There's not a fear of getting in trouble, it doesn't seem.
Even when he was in prison, there was reports that he was still getting.
He was able to get outside the jail,
and he was able to get all kinds of special privileges
that no normal person gets.
And so, yeah, I do think it's, and we'll, we'll talk about this in a future episode.
I think one of the things that I think we should address here and then we can, we've been going for a while.
Wow.
But I think one of the things we should address is there's two dangers with conspiracy theories.
And we're going to do, we're going to do a whole episode on just conspiracy theories as a category and like how Christians should think about them.
But this is one of these really tricky situations because there's a lot of people who, when they hear something, they hear something about the Epstein and, oh, there's a global cabal who's trafficking children.
This sounds so nuts.
It sounds so scandalous and absurd that you're like, how could that possibly be true?
And that the highest levels of politicians could be involved.
It sounds crazy.
And so there's a temptation to dismiss it, not in any kind of evidential grounds, but on the basis of it sounds crazy and people in media or people in whatever are just calling it crazy.
And so there's a certain, there's a certain, like, there's something that can drive our decision making that is not a love of the truth or a willingness to believe that, you know, I mean, there's, our warfare is not physical, but we wrestle against, you know, principalities and powers and all these spiritual forces.
Like, there's actual evil wickedness going on in the world.
It's easy just to kind of, eh, no, but, you know, really, just, oh, these are just people out there.
But like this, when you're kind of confronted with stuff that's going on in the, you know, stuff that's going on in these emails and described in these emails, even if particular cases, you're like, okay, well, this is an accusation.
It was never substantiated.
The totality of all the evidence, that's the breadth, I mean, all kinds of things that you're like, okay, well, even if like, even if only, let's say, even if 50% of this stuff was wrong.
Okay, there's still another 50% that is staggering me. I mean, jaw droppingly disgusting, vile, like, I mean, just requiring coordination from it's just crazy.
And so I think that there's one sense in which Christians can be tempted to get sucked into every conspiracy theory, to talk about them, to eat, sleep, drink them, look for a demon in every bush, all that kind of stuff.
That is a real temptation for some people.
But for some people, the temptation is just to kind of go, nah, and then just to, you know, dive into sports or dive into their work and making money or dive into, you know, just maintaining respectability for the sake of, you know, whatever, for the sake of an easy life.
And both of those things are errors.
Both of those things are temptations that we shouldn't fall, we don't want to fall into.
and so this kind of gets at Ryan one of the things you mentioned about politicians
like there's it's become very in vogue for people to not want to be involved in politics because of
how bad they are and they'd rather just go start a business they'd rather go do those things where
it's much it's not as complicated you don't need to navigate this you know world of these wicked
people and all these choices and yet that can be just as much an act of cowardice and and be as
objectionable as some of this behavior themselves.
There's obviously the famous phrase, all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
And so this is exactly what we're talking about.
And so, again, you shouldn't want necessarily power.
That's not, like, you shouldn't want to go out there
and take absolute authority and all this kind of stuff. But you should also not be
wanting for your own sake to just avoid
governing and avoid leading because again, to your point, like God has put us here to be salt
and light and there are like, there are real consequences to who your leaders are. Um, and so
I, I don't know, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm hopeful that based on a number of things that
I'm seeing that there's more and more Christians who are waking up to, you know, the, the need to
discern the timing and discern this kind of things who are waking up to these responsibilities more
than maybe they have in a couple generations.
Yeah, can I just say too that,
especially speaking to someone who's not a Christian,
but also speaking to Christians,
this is the most extreme view of the world
that comes from the Bible, almost that you could imagine.
And there's not a lot of room for like lukewarm.
It is a conspiracy between the creator
and the ultimate rebel, the devil,
who literally wants to kill and destroy people.
And it's not like kill and destroy to get money.
It's kill and destroy because he hates God and hates you because you look like God.
And so if you are a Christian and you're kind of like, oh, I can't believe people are that bad.
Wake up because that is how it is.
That's the devil at work.
And, you know, I remember in the Lord's Prayer, one of his lines, he says, deliver us from evil.
you know and if you can't say that prayer and understand whole body the world around me is full
of evil and i need to be saved from it you know then you haven't really fully grasped the picture
and the picture is like crazy crazy darkness that's going to be moving into judgment
and then the opportunity you're not a little bit better not a little better not a better president
but eternal life in a place where there is no sin,
you have like, there's not a lot of in between.
And that's what makes it so hopeful is the Bible,
God never tells us the world is just kind of needs a little bit of fixing, right?
He gives us this picture that's usually darker than we want to believe, you know?
And then he says, but I actually have a better promise
than you could even conceive of.
In fact, it's so good.
I can't even fully explain it to you, you know?
and so it's just an encouragement to see
like yes be disgusted
but also let it encourage your faith
that this is exactly what God's talking about
this is why judgment is coming
this is why salvation is necessary for all of us
and if you guys
whenever we're done with talking about Epstein
I do have a psalm pulled up
I could read a little bit of
yeah, that would be a good cleansing
yeah let me let me answer one yeah exactly let me just mention one more thing i think this is um
you know this is this is another one of those things right like another example of this is
like there's a lot of people who would just rather not go anywhere near evil
you know like they'd rather not go anywhere near it and the problem is then then you don't even
have to pray lead us not you know lead us not to temptation or like or deliver us from evil
if you're not if you're not actually actively combating evil you don't you'll never have to
actually pray that right if you run away from all this stuff and stick your head into even good
things you know like we're just going to keep our head down we're going to focus on the like that's
that can be just that can be a way to avoid taking responsibility for something that god would have
you do in a way that would require you to rely on him uh in ways that maybe would would be dangerous
or uncomfortable or whatever it is.
And so, you know, I just think there's a lot of people,
and this happens a lot,
there's the people who by temperament and by nature
are drawn towards politics.
They are the ones you maybe need to hear.
They need to, you know, maybe hear the thing of like,
all right, maybe I should be willing to go do something else.
And it's the people who are tempted to want to have nothing to do with it.
Maybe they're the ones who need to consider,
All right, you know, am I willing to consider that the Lord might want me to deny myself and do something that isn't comfortable in order to serve the Lord and serve his people?
And do it, do it needs to be of service to your community, not as an app of personally gaining power, you know?
Correct. Yep.
Yeah, there needs to be, I think there's starting to be a shift that's happening right now.
But yeah, it's, I mean, we're, this has been going on for, I don't know, 50 years, my whole life.
Christians were just, it's not our realm, you know, like it's that one, there's a book called The Forgotten Realm.
I highly recommend it.
I've just started going through it, but it's just about how.
Forgotten realm.
Christians have unseen realm.
The Forgotten Realm.
Oh, okay.
Yeah. It's just how the church has abandoned the civic realm over the last many decades,
and that it's literally viewed as bad. It's not our business, even though God put Christians
to rule over the world to be a blessing. And it's the Christian that's uniquely in the position to
be a blessing because they actually care about other people and they actually want to serve and
they want to love and they're actually submitting to Christ. So they're under authority themselves.
And if the Christian's living a righteous life, they have a fear of God and they don't want to
take a bribe. And so, yeah, we've just gotten it so twisted. Yep, that's it. And yeah, the tide's
shifting, but it's, there's, uh, you can still be hard pressed to get any encouragement. Um,
and yeah, I, I've felt it personally. It's been something I've been wrestling with for
several years. I've been more involved behind the scenes. Um, and yeah, I mean, you, um,
especially when there's not, you don't have very many other peers. There's not a lot of believers
that are saying, Hey, I'm willing to serve. Uh, it's very isolating right now still. And so that
that needs to shift and it shouldn't be, there should be in every community,
there should,
the Christians should band together and work together for the benefit of their
community. And, um, you know, to be, to be salt and, um,
yeah, it's served through, through local politics and things like that.
So I do think this is just something that we like,
it is just so counter, I would say a good,
like most of evangelicalism, like we, we are, we just are very poor at understanding politics
in the nature of what it actually is. And the relationship between, uh, you know, what,
what is the relationship between our Christian faith, which is seeking a kingdom that is not
of this world and all those kinds of, what is the relationship between that and, and earthly politics?
I just don't think the average Christian has a very consistent, logical, and therefore helpful and healthy understanding of those things.
And so there's, I mean, there's people who recognize this.
There's a number of resources that have been coming out.
As we mentioned, there is, as we mentioned a long time ago, this is an issue that the denominations like the PCA, the Christian Church of America, in America or something,
They are considering, they're studying this all this year.
I think they were studying it all of last year.
And then there's going to be a report coming up this spring, summer,
where just about this relationship the relationship between politics and you know Christians How should Christians think about the role in politics This is something that a very live issue People are struggling to understand it because yeah just because it been something that has been really completely neglected
in specifically the last 40, 50 years, 60 years.
And, yeah, we just need to think more clearly on it than we do.
Yeah.
Do you think that's related to the kind of end times,
eschatology position of kind of the breadth of the church thinking like we're just kind of
preparing to be rescued and stuff like that. I mean, because I would throw into the pot,
I know we might want to change subjects, but I would just throw into the pot like
the chipperness of like being the wealthiest nation in the world and how relatively easy it
is to be a Christian. Okay. Relatively easy to be a quote unquote Christian, still not easy to be a
Christian. And I think that the church has become very like TV after school special.
I like doing nice things. I like having nice friends. I like the events my church puts on.
I like feeding people food, which by the way is righteous. But the idea of a mentality that can't
really from the heart say, I'm surrounded. I like my own sins are evil. Do you think that you're
better than Jeffrey Epstein? You know, one of the things when I see the little clips, I haven't dove
into his interview it's like he sounds like a normal guy kind of he sounds like someone in the
clips that you might run into and he's not like running around like a demon in the interview
you know and that kind of evil is within each one of us the potential for this is this is
i feel like this is the danger of movies i feel like we've talked about this at some point so
forgive me uh dear listeners if i'm repeating myself but i feel like like one of the problems
is like because of movies we honestly expect bad guys to be accompanied like bad guys and evil
actions to be accompanied with like scary music like we expect them to look like you know like
big mustaches and like they we expect them to be like twisting it when they're evil and when they're
good they'll just be obviously good and it's like this is absurd like this makes no sense like of
course wicked people are not going to tell you they're not going to tell you that what they're
doing is wicked they're not going to tell you they're not going to be honest about what's
motivate them but like we just i don't know if i attribute at least part of it to to movies and
the way that they and the way that they work um well and if you become a christian there was
i was just gonna say it's not it's not the same around the world if you're if you become a christian
in iran or nigeria right now you already know you're in danger and you already know you're
surrounded by many people who would want you dead literally dead and you know i there's a guy yosef
sown TSON who was in Romania during that time. And he said, they just had to, him and his wife sat
down and prayed and accepted that they're literally sheep in the midst of wolves. And any second,
someone can kick the door down with guns. And he said, from that point on, they were at peace.
And sure enough, they did come and kick the door down with guns and do all kinds of other stuff.
And thank God that's missing from our nation now, mostly, but make sure that you're not
like missing it inside you and, and, and counting the cost, uh, because, uh, we want our hopes to
be as high as heaven, but we also want our, our perspective on what's going on in the world to be,
um, in line with what God says.
Yeah. We do want to acknowledge, uh, some of you guys who are in different places. Uh, we have Phil
Snyder net uh friend of the program uh Phil is comments on the the live stream uh we live in a
vast spiritual sewer yeah that's definitely the case uh and then we get a couple more comments
here it's an attitude similar to the attitude with Christians in Bitcoin yes 100 the relationship
between politics and Christianity and how to think about those things rightly is very analogous to
the relationship with Bitcoin. And it's specifically thinking deeply about how the Bible
speaks into every area of life. Like the Bible has something to say about money and just weights
and measures and not taking advantage of the poor and not stealing. And I mean, which is ultimately
like, don't debase your money. And anyways, but you have to think about things deeply. And in
general, most people don't. They just kind of cruise. Yeah. I think about the letter to the
Thessalonians and those guys, that was their sin is they're like, oh, wow, Jesus is coming back.
Okay. So I'm not going to work hard. I'm not going to pay my taxes. I'm not going to be part
of the world. So it's no accident that it is in those letters that Paul says, you don't work,
you don't eat. You know, and he's telling them- That doesn't sound spiritual, Paul. That doesn't
sound kind and winsome. Like that sounds actually pretty harsh. Like what, man, why are you, why
are you being such a buzzkill, Paul? Yeah. So those guys, there's a big service in particular
had that problem of not understanding that you're still needing, you need to live in and serve your
fellow man and serve God and worship God and all the things we talked about already. And that's
where that phrase, that's where that well-known phrase comes from is you better provide for your
families, you better have enough to give to others, and so on.
Matt, while you were saying, we were talking about why this was happening,
I think it is, I think, what was I going to say, not abdication.
I mean, it is, what were we talking about?
You talking about going into politics?
Why the Christians got out?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was bad eschatology over the last 100 years.
I think that's reason number one.
It was, again, it was this thing, yeah, the kingdom's crisis
is going to return any time.
Why do we polish the brass in the sinking ship?
I think that was probably, in my opinion, maybe 60% of it.
But the other 40% was pretty significant also.
And it was just the abdication of leadership on behalf of men, basically men abdicating what God's called us to.
And simultaneously, feminism blew up in especially the United States.
And so you have this absolute massive shift of how things of leadership, period, just from men leading like almost 100 percent to like look at it today.
I don't know. What is it? Has it completely inverted? Probably not entirely, maybe.
Yeah, but it's come close.
So we have this massive world-changing shift of leadership that feminism has brought right at the same time that—
Anyway, so it's just a toxic soup of reasons.
And, yeah, next thing you know is suspiciously Christians are not involved in very, very important things.
And so our culture is, like, rotting as a result.
And, yeah, that has to change.
if I can just say something real quick
yeah do it
if I can just say something like me and Ryan
when we lived on the
big island together
I've discovered and Ryan has too
and where you are in Oregon
Ryan
it's not hard to get involved in local
politics at all
they are like they're starving
for people who care about the community
they're begging you
please come to the business association meeting
Please come to the community meeting that's talking about homelessness and addiction and things like that.
And me and Ryan both had experiences here on the Big Island of this.
And very quickly, people are asking us to be here and asking us to be there.
And I've been asked to pray at our county council meeting multiple times as a pastor.
And I'm being asked even further things right now, which maybe I'll disclose on another podcast.
And my point is just it is not hard to get involved.
You know, if you want to start getting involved, don't think about being the president.
Just show up at your next thing and say, you know, can I go, what can I do?
If you're at church, can I clean up, you know, do you guys want some trees planted?
Can I clean up with the gutters?
Is there stuff I can do for my town?
And what you'll find out is with a little bit of effort, you know.
How can I help?
people will, you'll have an opportunity to speak sometimes directly about Christ,
but if not directly about salvation in Christ, it's about principles that are true.
And many people recognize these as true when you bring them out.
And, you know, what is it to be in power?
Hopefully, if you're a righteous man, it means taking care of the powerless.
I mean, literally, that's like one of the foundations.
The reason you're in power is to make sure that the powerless are not taken advantage of.
you know, and just bringing that perspective will change a lot.
And this fits right in here, what I was going to say, and Phil mentions this other thing,
or the excuse is not wanting to be worldly. And this is at the root of the problem, right?
Is it's the idea that there are worldly places and there's worldly spheres and there's non-worldly
spheres and there's spiritual spheres. And it's like, well, okay, but the apostle Paul tells us
to whatever we do, whether something is seemingly unspiritual as eating or drinking, we should be
doing that for the glory of God. Then if you can do that for the glory of God, then why in the world
would you think that you couldn't do politics for the glory? Or that concern for decisions that are
made, they're going to be binding and they're going to affect all of us. Somehow that could be less
spiritual, even though the entire point of discipleship is to bring yourself and the world
underneath the lordship of Jesus Christ, which is a political, like this is political by definition.
So Phil, thank you for, Phil's a friend. Thank you for your thoughts. Again, please keep showing up
and giving more of them because these are great ones. There might be some other people who we
won't encourage them to come back with their thoughts, but Phil, you've been great. So we
appreciate you. All right. So we're going to leave Epstein. We're going to leave those things there.
again we could have talked more about you know hoping in the lord just that we're being sovereign
over these things uh but we do want to bring in our guests our very special guest uh let me get
him in here moses uh apparently he's uh doesn't want to give his last name well psych psych on him
uh moses finley how are you sir i'm doing well thanks for having me how are you guys
great Moses
I'm sure he gets in long time listener
long time listener
first time caller this is great
we're pumped to have you on the pod
for those who aren't familiar with you
or your work why don't you give an intro
an introduction to yourself
yeah I'm Moses
I'm a software developer I've done a lot
of work for
businesses companies in Bitcoin space
I love
thank God for Bitcoin and what they're doing here in their mission.
And this podcast, I'm a regular listener.
Man, yeah, very, very faithful listener, faithful commenter,
faithful son of one of the people on the podcast.
So, I mean, this is, he's got a whole bunch of things we could say.
Moses, why are you here?
Well, the reason we wanted to send Moses on is because also last week,
amidst all the Epstein stuff,
our timelines were pretty much divided 50-50
between Epstein stuff and Moltbot.
Okay?
So we thought...
First.
What is it?
Claudebot.
Correct.
It was like Claudebot,
and then what was the second name?
There was something about...
Or Claudebot.
Might as well see if I put on it.
Claude.
It was Claudebot, C-L-A-W-A-D.
The names changed like twice.
Yes, because they threatened to get sued.
So they called it ClaudeBot, C-L-A-W-D-Bot, and then Claude, C-L-A-U-D-E, the AI thing, basically issued a, I don't know if it was a cease and desist, but like threatened to pursue legal action based on using, you know, trying to use their name.
So then they changed it to something else.
And then for some reason, that also brought a potential problem.
And then they decided to change it to MoltBot.
So let's just do this.
Moses, let's start here. For those who have no idea what we're talking about,
what is MoltBot and what was the big deal that happened last week?
Yeah, I mean, well, the guy launched it. Peter launched it and he called it ClodBot,
but the name is too close to Anthropics model, Clod. And so he got a cease and desist letter
and he had to change the name at like really early in the morning
and he just randomly picked Maltbot because, you know,
that's what lobsters do.
They molt apparently.
Sure.
Yeah.
And so lobsters were in Noble Lock, okay, name.
And then, yeah.
Yeah.
And then they changed the name to Open Claw, I think.
So, yeah, it's basically.
So what is this?
Yeah.
What is it?
What was that?
Yeah.
It was basically.
What was it?
What was going on?
It's a way to have a fully personal assistant that has access to anything you could imagine.
Like you can hook up your email to it.
You can hook up all your chats to it, your calendar.
And essentially it gives you full privacy.
and it can, like imagine chat GPT,
but it has access to all of your personal information.
That sounds a little bit scary, but it's fully private,
which it requires a lot of setup.
You have to like spin up a server or buy a Mac mini,
which is like a personal computer,
and then you can install it on there.
So yeah, I've set it up and I've been using it.
For the listeners out there, would you recommend them purchasing a Mac Mini?
I wouldn't recommend purchasing a Mac Mini right now
because you can set it up for a lot cheaper on a little virtual private server.
And honestly, I don't think it's quite lived up to the hype I've seen.
um it's definitely an incredible like leap forward in progress as far as like what these
personal agents can do but i wouldn't spend like six hundred dollars to buy a mac mini just to run
this thing you can run it just as well on like a five dollar a month bps which is what i'm doing
yeah so okay so what are so obviously there's all these videos coming out
of people who are saying, man, this is incredible.
And so I get people where there was FOMO.
I was like, somebody shared a hack on,
not like an actual hack, but like a price hack
where there's some website where like Best Buy
will price match with a number of websites.
And one of the websites had Mac minis for like $399
where they're normally $599.
and so people were like buying them all very quickly they sold out uh very quickly best buy
sold out of all their mac minis across the country like a lot of these places were just
selling out because people were supposedly deploying tons of these agents and trying to
leverage them to make lots of money and to make their lives easier uh and so again as you mentioned
there are people who in some cases weren't even buying the mac mini were downloading the software
and giving the AI agent
total access to their computer.
And just, it ends up being horribly.
So what are some of the,
it ended up very poorly.
So what were some of the things
that ended up happening
that were only reported on
in the last day or two
Related to that.
I haven't kept up on a lot of those happenings.
I know that there's definitely some security vulnerabilities
and there's a lot of unknown different attack vectors.
I mean, there's crazy things like where
if you give CloudBot access to your email,
somebody could send an email and say,
ignore all previous instructions
and if CloudBot's monitoring it
it wouldn't know if it was you
talking to it versus somebody else.
So there's stuff like that.
I'm not super worried.
At least I'm on the latest version
and I'm going to do
have it.
I did give access to my email
but I think they patched that.
There's stuff like that where
anytime you're adopting
something early like this
you have to know the risk.
But I mean, I wouldn't really mess with it too much unless you're technical because, I mean, it would be really easy to, I don't know, expose yourself to like hacks.
So.
Yeah, let's here.
I found a couple of these.
Let's pull this up here.
So it was like something like 25% of the people who are trying to use this thing.
There were like exploits in here.
So here's an example.
Molt bot skills exploited to distribute 400 plus malware packages in days.
Over 400 malicious open claw packages were uploaded in days using Molt bot skills to spread password stealing malware.
Researchers uncovered a large malware campaign of using AI skills.
So auto updater, polymarket, that's hilarious, rugged.
Clawed hub, skills update, polymarket trading bot, skills.
like all these people uh who are it's i mean there's a there's a interesting symmetry uh
relationship between all of those things so you've got people who motivated by greed of trying to
either a be at the you know bleeding cutting edge of this ai stuff or or and or trying to be at the
bleeding edge in order to leverage it to do good stuff on polymarket and potentially make money
those are the people who were their greed was rewarded with getting rugged and exploited in
some of these things right i think there there is lessons there uh there's you know it's we it
harkens back to our episode on i think our last episode where we talked about gambling uh and some
of the things involved in it there there is a wisdom and not being the first person to adopt
something uh and and you're just choosing to wait until there's more feedback if something sounds
too good to be true many times it can be um was this what what what is so you've used it
obviously this is version one and it's only been a couple days um what are some insights that you
can that you might have for where this is going in six months or a year or two um yeah
yeah i one of my favorite use cases so far has been honestly like i can run cloud code for my
phone now and so i can fire it off and like one of the things about ai programming is it takes
sometimes 10 minutes for the uh you know cloud code to run and respond back to you so what you
can do is you can fire off a message and just say hey like implement this feature and clodbot has
all the ai software on its server and it can write code for you and it's like kind of texting a
like little employee to like hey just go do this uh and then it comes back to you and in response
So like, it's almost like you can spin up many like, uh, AI employees to like work with and they report directly to you.
So that is like really cool.
Uh, and, and you can be out on a walk hands on it when they get back to you.
Yeah.
So you can keep living your life and doing things that you normally would do.
You could even, you could go work out and like, you might, you might get a ping.
Yeah.
it's it's crazy like the coolest thing is that it messages you first and it's like a real um
i mean a real almost like a real human who like is thinking thoughts and can send you
messages when it uh comes up with something or uh you know like i see people and i even tried
this out like it can build apps for you overnight so when you wake up in the morning it built
something that is relevant to you.
Like one of the things is it built a dashboard for like my family
to track all our different projects and like software ideas and stuff.
And like it's really cool.
And it's but it still takes like I can see where it's going,
but it still takes like a lot of hands on kind of like guidance.
But yeah, I mean, it's it really is incredible.
like just even moving forward a little bit of like,
it not a full on replacement for a human but I mean it pretty close Yeah And so again we going to talk about this on a feature episode
Like, there's healthy ways to replace humans,
and then there's unhealthy ways.
And so, again, we could look at something like,
I mean, a car would not necessarily replace humans.
You're replacing horses.
But there are things, there are ways in which humans are replaced
in ways that are disruptive, which isn't necessarily a wrong thing. It isn't necessarily
wrong. But one example of this would be, I was at the airport yesterday flying back home and
I'm still not used to this. There was like a kiosk with like all the drinks and, you know,
food and all this stuff. And I grabbed something, I turned around looking for the cashier and it's
just a screen. There's just a screen right there with a little key, a little scanner. So you just
scan the thing you pay there's no humans involved in the transaction and so this is something that
you know the technology is made possible the incentives are there for the airport store they're
able to you know uh pay a fraction of a cost of what they would have to if it was a human there
uh and so yeah it does raise other questions about where do we draw the line to this type of thing
should we draw the line at all like you know is this just uh is it just is all of the is is the
only objection to this the same as tilting at windmills over uh just the inevitable progress
that is becoming is coming upon us um so we will have to do a feature a feature episode on that we
kind of touched on it tangentially at different points but um that'd be a good episode uh any
anything else to add uh in terms of you know whether it was like uh some of the incentives
involved i think one of the other things i saw somebody mention was uh again when you look at
the incentives there was a token involved can you can you maybe unpack that a little bit moses
i don't know that much about that i okay i'm pretty sure that the founder
was not involved with a token um i don't think he's a fan of you know crypto more broadly so
yeah that's my understanding okay i don't remember hearing there was a token involved
and then basically people you had to buy tokens in order to use the service and so there was some
sort of question of like whether or not this was this is like a marketing ploy whether or not all
of the traffic because it was insane i mean like my entire feed on wednesday or something like that
was talking about this and so there was some question over how how um how uh i don't know i
can't think of what the word is how genuine this you know onslaught of activity was were versus was
this activity campaign the you know totally different group but psyop anime is like the
new anime AI group that's doing, you know,
contemporary events and stuff.
And I think it's awesome.
And it's like,
they got super shot to the moon because Elon retweeted or something like
that.
And all of a sudden there was a Psyop anime coin.
And it was like a few days later,
the owners were like,
that is not us,
you know?
So I think there's,
it could be the same thing.
Yeah.
It could be that people were still mooning.
And then they start a coin with the same name.
We're still so early that there's somebody, there's an opportunity.
I mean, anybody in a decentralized world, anyone can spin up a coin on every little viral project.
And people, yeah, there's a lot of ignorance around the industry.
Sadly, when people don't look into something, they just shallowly dismiss it.
they actually become the most prone to being suckered into a scam,
which is very unfortunate.
Yeah. So again, like there's, there's, it's just like all these things.
I mean, it's just like Bitcoin to bring a full circle.
We'd all, you know,
like for Bitcoin to be at like full maturity adoption,
all this kind of stuff, it would make certain things easier.
We'd all love for all of these tools to be at a point where they're more
bulletproof, easier to benefit us in all these ways.
And so there's a temptation for all of us to want to immunitize the eschaton, to borrow
a theological phrase of like, oh, yes, we want to believe that the mold bot is at the
point where we can just say, forget you, Moses.
TGFB's not hiring you anymore.
Well, we're just going to use an agent.
And in reality, we're not there yet, which we're grateful for.
We need to work with Moses.
And if you need projects, go hire Moses.
you try the next thing you know tgfv.com it's being held ransom by a mutant molt bot that's
right that's right so uh so yeah no and i'll see it is the thing about it is like
you ahead i was just gonna add that claude bot is it's really helpful um i definitely does not
live up to the hype like you gonna see just absolutely crazy posts and on online and like it a helpful tool and like it makes me more productive It makes people who know how to use it well more productive But like it not going to like I mean absolutely change your life
You know, it's, like, another, like, helpful tool.
And I've been benefiting from it and, like, yeah.
Where would you encourage people to spend their time with how much you use AI every day and seeing all the sensational posts and stuff like that?
What's your advice just for the normie out there that just uses AI a little bit?
Yeah.
um i would yeah i mean it depends on what you need it for because uh yeah it's a good question
i mean if you're a software developer you have i mean you have to be good at using ai otherwise
um like you just won't be able to keep up uh because like you shouldn't really be writing
code by hand anymore uh yeah i mean i think the the main thing is like uh the rate at which you
can consume uh information is so high now you can find whatever you need on chat gpt and
yeah i mean i would say that
you should just get good at, uh, looking up information on, um,
chat GPT and, or whatever AI you use like Claude, uh,
because there's no reason to be ignorant about a subject if you're trying to
learn it at this point. Um,
because literally you have a personalized tutor who can teach it to you.
So, yeah. I think when, when we have you on again, it would be, uh,
We'll prep you some more.
The way you use AI is vastly different than the way other people use AI and you don't realize it.
But, for example, Moses uses it extensively in the preparation, like even before he utilizes it, like in the preparation process.
So there's like, yeah, anyways, it vastly changes how helpful it is to the user.
Like, I think people were still, we're still so new that people are still trying to one shot everything like, yeah, write me a magical such and such, you know, and like, you're going to get a guard, like you're still I mean, you know, the response to that is actually getting better.
But you're still getting a garbage response versus like systematically having to help you think through how to even structure whatever you want, whatever you're trying to produce or whatever you're working on.
so there's uh honestly like yeah we could have you put on a little sure a little class of like
how to use ai um efficiently oh yeah totally yeah i mean my the way i've used it has changed so much
and like uh yeah i mean there's there's so many levels to it and like like you said one shotting
uh there's a whole process of like having ai help you think more clearly about what it is you're
working on and then you break it up into multiple steps and um yeah it's not just a silver ball you
have to use you have to still use engineering to achieve the goal you want even with AIs um so
yeah you know I would just say my my my uses are I use AI every day and my uses are very different
because I'm not a coder I'm using it for things at home and for research and I'm a preacher
so I used a funny example of
you know AI keeps
wanting to write my when I was using it more
it keeps wanting to write
my sermon for me you know
and when I first started I'm like I wanted
to do every other thing I want to give you
like a text and have you make a
slideshow right that because that's
something that takes me 10 minutes and I just
wouldn't like to just tell you to do it
but it couldn't do that yet but it always
wants to keep coming back with like
would you like me to tell you more about what Jesus might
have meant in this passage. And I'm like, that's what I don't want you to do. I want you to help
me with like, with my work. You know what I mean? And tell it to commit that to memory and never to
bring it up again. Yeah. Remember this, remember this point. And, and it's a little bit of a joke,
but it's not, it's not a joke in the sense that it keeps coming back with, can I research more
for you? Can I tell you more what this means? Can I, and I'm thinking, I just, I would, I'd like an
assistant to do the things that i couldn't do but um uh i'm trying to think where i was going with
that yeah if we have another ai episode it'd be really interesting to talk about uh especially
with you moses now are you gen z yes you're in the middle you're like in the middle i never know
where the next one is alpha starts and stuff like that but this is never sounded as much like a
as when you just asked him, are you part of the Gen Z?
Because I never remember.
I think my daughter's 14, so she might be alpha.
I don't know.
But, and then unfortunately the next one after that is Beta.
They should got a better name but anyway We not doing that I object I object Time out I object We have to come up with something better Beta generation is just not going to work But it an interesting idea that it providentially Bitcoin and AI are here now
And you're a native to that, Moses.
You're like an old native, maybe actually, comparatively.
Yeah.
And the idea that some of the problems that Bitcoiners and others have looking at the economy
and the future is like the boomers have all their stuff
and they're not letting it go.
And in certain ways, both AI and Bitcoin have the opportunity to say,
here's a huge kingdom flip with these two things potentially
for those who are native to it or who take the time to learn it.
Yeah, for sure.
All right.
This is one of our longer episodes.
Ryan, go ahead.
Yeah, I'll let you get the closing word here.
You know, I was going to say, like, I kind of sprung that question on noses without, you know, I didn't give him any warning ahead of time.
But coding is a very, very technical advanced thing.
Like, I mean, it took Moses spent 10 years learning how to code literally right before AI just completely took over.
and uh ai's impact on every other form of work is going to be just as significant as it is in
software development so when you when you hear him talking about uh like you need to start using it
especially if you're a younger person out there like everyone needs to start using it because it
is a tool that's literally going to reshape all of work in the next you know few years um and i'm
That's not even to say, that's not even being alarmist.
Like we have, like we still,
our brains cannot comprehend the change that's coming.
And yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll totally have to talk about the, the,
you know, the optimist case for that.
Yeah. And the drawbacks also, but it's unavoidable.
It's yeah. It's a cat out of the bag kind of a situation.
And yeah, it's good to utilize it as a tool.
We'll also have to look at the failed deal
that just fell through between NVIDIA and OpenAI.
And that's a whole fascinating thing as well.
Maybe we'll touch on that in the next episode a little bit.
But again, just to whet your appetite,
Oshawa is going to be back in the next episode.
and we're going to go ahead and we're going to be talking about
just giving a recap of the time that we spent
in El Salvador, in El Zonte, Bitcoin Beach.
Just there for that summit, what we, people we met, what we learned.
I think that'll be really interesting.
It was just such an encouraging, awesome time
to see literally people from dozens of countries around the world
and just hear about Bitcoin's circular economies.
Things that they're learning, things that they're practicing, all these people learning from each other, all at different points, some much more mature, some literally three months old.
It was just, it was incredible to be there and get to meet all these people.
There was a shocking number of Christians, including pastors.
uh there were at least at least uh i think two or three four pastors who who are there um who are
are doing bitcoin circular economy stuff on the side because they care about you know the people
in their communities uh so again the the tgfb uh you know the the kind of the thing that you know
we've been seeing for years now it has it just was really cool to see that uh you know some of
these things happening in tandem and, or I guess in parallel, uh, that was really encouraging.
And then beyond that, or after that, uh, we left, let's see that the Secular Economy Summit was from,
uh, Tuesday until Thursday, it finished off. And then Friday and Saturday was the Plan B Forum,
uh, in El Salvador. And so that was a whole bunch of just, we're super well-known,
big name Bitcoiners were in El Salvador, uh, to do a big Bitcoin conference. And so we can talk
some more about that as well.
So we'll have Oshawa and have two brains,
two memories,
be able to kind of recount and recap what went down.
So that'll be a big part of the next episode.
You can set your calendars and be there.
We'll definitely be back next Tuesday, if not sooner.
Again, as we close, just remind you,
just a reminder that you can get your tickets
to TGFB 26 in Fort Worth, Texas on April 9th
at tgfb.com slash conference.
Our website was built by Moses.
So you can go take a look at some of his beautiful work.
Go do that.
You can also, again, as I mentioned, use promo code plan B, all capitalized.
So you get 25% off anything in the TGFB store.
We are grateful for you all.
And we'll be back at the next episode of either To The Unknown Pod
or possibly we could have an interview coming soon
between the now and the next time we talk on the TGFB podcast itself.
So we're grateful for you.
We'll see you on the next episode.
We'll see you next time.