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And we are live. Welcome to episode 31 of To the Unknown Pod, a subset of the Thank God

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for Bitcoin podcast. My name is Jordan Bush. I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, which

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exists to help Christians understand and use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good

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of people everywhere.

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Hey, I'm Ashok Hawthorne, an executive director of Brilliance Labs. I'm also a dad of eight.

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I'm here sitting in my transit van where we pack this thing out and love to drive around the country.

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I'm Ryan Finley, father of six.

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I work on entrepreneurial projects with my boys, three different projects now.

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And yeah.

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Matt Purvis in Hawaii and longtime pastor and business entrepreneur,

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but I'll call it today business as mission, but also business as activism, and maybe even

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business as politics. I don't know. Ooh, use that P word, get careful. We're going to get

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people turning off the pod. All right. So we are here again, generally to talk about Bitcoin.

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But the crazy thing that happens is when you start trying to talk about Bitcoin, you start

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realizing that it touches all kinds of things that maybe you didn't think about initially.

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So we had a conversation last week with Scott Yenner, who's a very politically involved working believer and philosopher, university professor.

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We talked about the case for banning porn.

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And you may be thinking, what in the world does that have to do with Bitcoin or money more broadly?

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And it has everything to do with it because a lot of these things are downstream from one another.

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So today we're going to get potentially controversial again.

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We're going to talk about politics.

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And so, again, there's been a lot of conversation in the online world about the proper relationship between Christians and politics.

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Should it be there at all? Should it be completely shunned in favor of just preaching the gospel and just focusing on that and making disciples?

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So, again, there's questions around this topic, lots of confusion, which makes sense given the American church's pretty overwhelming lack of political involvement, I would say, at least in a certain segment, certain segments of evangelicalism over the last few decades.

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So what we want to do is we're going to kind of kick this off with a video from a pastor named Josh Howerton.

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He's a really thoughtful guy, and he's been, I don't know, his online profile continues to grow.

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So let's take a listen to this, and then we'll kick this off.

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He'll kind of give us a jumping off point.

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Literally any pastor in America knows what I'm about to say is true.

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They just have not grappled with the reality and the implications of what I'm about to say.

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If you want the advancement of the gospel and the growth of the church to get significantly smothered in your state, your city, here's all you got to do.

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Let it go blue.

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That's simply what data shows.

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I'll say it like this.

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Show me a map of the most progressive areas in our nation.

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Then show me a map of the areas in our nation that have the fewest churches.

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It's the same map.

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So my point is that the advancement of generally and correctly defined political conservatism, it is a significant and powerful force for pre-evangelism because it installs a plausibility structure in the populace that leads to intuitively understanding Christianity is true, right and good.

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So I would say in order to accomplish the Great Commission, we need to advocate for it at the political level.

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And I know this sounds like super weird and even cringe for like my secret sensitive megachurch pastor world.

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That's the world I came from and I have a lot of affinity for that world.

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But actual data is showing us that when political conservatism spreads, more people become Christians.

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When political progressivism spreads, less people become Christians.

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There's a reason for this.

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New Testament talks about laws. The book of Galatians talks about laws. It talks about the

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law as a teacher. What people do not understand is that laws in a nation, they have what Christians

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have historically called a didactic function. Laws do not simply legislate right and wrong.

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They teach the populace what's right and wrong. Laws calibrate the consciences of a nation.

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If you start swimming in the streams of truth and liberty, you're eventually going to find its

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source. Conservatism in general calibrates the conscience in such a way that it pushes people

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toward the God from whom the principles came. Progressivism, whether you like it or not,

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this is just a fact. Progressivism is built generally upon a secular Marxist view of human

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nature, economics, governance. So what progressivism does, particularly secular progressivism,

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is it calibrates the consciences of people away from what is true, right, and good,

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and it teaches people to call evil things good

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and good things evil.

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And you can do that with abortion,

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with gay marriage, with trans stuff,

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with redistribution of wealth, all the things,

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literally all the things.

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All right.

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So we are, again, are going to talk about this issue

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because, again, this is,

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we run into this issue talking about Bitcoin very, a lot.

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I run into this a lot.

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We get people who we start talking about,

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we start a business called Thank God for Bitcoin.

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We write a book called Thank God for Bitcoin. And that sounds every bit as much, if not even more

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cringe than talking about the need for political action or what it would look like to be a faithful

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Christian involved in political action. Those things can sound cringe. But at the same time,

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there are so many things, as we've talked about at length on this podcast, there's so many things

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that are downstream of money, whatever your money is, whether it's good money, hard money,

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or whether it's fiat currency, fiat money. So many things are downstream from those decisions.

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And so to act like they don't matter is to ignore the world that God made and the logical

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consequences that actions necessarily have. So what we want to do, we want to talk about

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this issue and talk about politics. Obviously, that sounds great. And I'm sure to a lot of people,

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maybe that's your first time hearing that kind of thing. Maybe that sounds great to you on the

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service, but you have questions. Now, again, as great as that video was, there's other people who

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maybe aren't as positive on it. So we'll look at one positive take. So Pastor, let's see here,

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Pastor Rich Lusk is a pastor in the Birmingham area of Birmingham, Alabama. And so he, in the

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replies to that video, said this, ironic to be posting this while wearing a Yankees hat. I guess

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the camo saves it. This is, you know, a shot at the, a shot at New York. Seriously, this is exactly

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right on every point. Living in even a semi-Christianized culture makes evangelism easier.

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It also makes religious hypocrisy easier, but that will be true anytime the church has success

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in her mission. Secularization and Marxification make the gospel implausible to people and makes

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the work of evangelism harder. Those who enjoy the blessings of Christian culture will often

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want to seek the source of those blessings. And civil law absolutely has a didactic function

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in training and shaping people's consciences. Keep up the good work. He's encouraging this

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other pastor, Josh. So again, that's the positive take. Good job. There's encouragement here and

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in alignment. Then we have another guy, another, I think, I don't know if he's a pastor or not,

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but DJ Jenkins, not to be confused with Leroy Jenkins, for those of you who are familiar with

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his work? DJ Jenkins retweets this video and says, I think I, I can almost, I can just picture him

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with his hand like this. Okay. I can just picture, I think I will choose the way of the apostle Paul

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who said to the Corinthians in first Corinthians chapter two, verse two, I decided to know nothing

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among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. So this, this is kind of, this is the, so a couple

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with the different positions. There's plenty more than that. But what do you guys think about this?

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There's people on both sides who think politics is distracting from the mission that God has called

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us to. It's something that pastors and Christian leaders should avoid in the name of just preaching

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the scriptures. There's other people and another case to be made that this is something that

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Christians ought to be actively involved in. What are your guys' takes on this? And what do you

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think and why? I think for Christians to retreat from the political sphere is a way of hating

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their neighbor and hating their community. I know it's difficult to find really good,

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solid Christian examples of this over the past 50, 60 years, because this retreat has been going

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on a long time, you know, Christians from the civil realm. But there's Christians like, we do

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have examples throughout history. William Wilberforce was an example who saw the horrors

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of the slave trade, and he spent his entire life as a devout Christian fighting to end the slave

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trade as a Christian. And you could imagine that it was not a very popular thing because there was

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a lot of financial incentives and everyone was caught up in it, from my understanding. And it

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It wasn't until like just days before his death that he actually, they succeeded and abolished it.

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And yeah, so there's things that Christians uniquely are aware of and should have their moral conscience stricken to fight back against that our culture just simply won't.

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And to continue to just separate ourselves from politics, yeah, it's just not loving.

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I mean, I literally look out. I got involved several years ago. I started and I showed up at this homeless meeting, a group of homeless advocates in our community. And I had been advocating that it was not best to leave them on the streets where they were overdosing in record numbers.

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and I showed up and they this lady stood up in the middle of the meeting and called me a hate group

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for for advocating that that was not what was best for those people struggling with mental illness

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addictions and basically being left out in the elements where they're not even thinking clearly

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because they're all doing things like fentanyl and stuff like that um to basically be in the

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worst possible environment, constantly surrounded by life-ending drugs.

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And sure enough, in the years since then, we've continued to experience all-time record-breaking

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overdoses amongst that community.

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Anyways, all that to say, it's just like, as Christians, we know that the unbelieving

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world, they're blind to the actual solutions.

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They don't even understand what these people need.

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And so we just need to remember that.

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Like when we're talking about politics,

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that like Christians should have insight

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into how to wisely govern and influence a community.

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So, and I think it is loving to exercise that influence.

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Yeah, this, I mean, let's talk about a couple of things here.

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Let's try to clarify.

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So one of the things to differentiate, if we're going to discern well, we're going to differentiate between any random person or any random Christian being involved in politics versus pastors being politically vocal.

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Because that's, I mean, Josh in this video basically talks about, he's like, hey, if you're a pastor, you need to think about the fact that all you need to do in order for things to go bad, for less churches to be planted, is to let everything go blue.

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So he's specifically talking to pastors. This guy, DJ, it seems like he's specifically pointing back to pastors.

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And he's saying, I think I, as a pastor, will choose the way of the Apostle Paul, knowing nothing among you in Christ crucified.

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At the same time, we want to, if we're going to take seriously the objection that DJ has,

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this is not a good principle of necessarily a good principle of hermeneutics to just snatch

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a verse completely out of its context and act like as if this should be somehow obvious that

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it's obviously representative to us in today in, you know, immediate in this context that we're in.

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So, I mean, on that front, it's one of the things where, yes, the apostle Paul, he says,

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this is what he did. He basically said, hey, I'm going to try to know nothing among you,

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Corinthians. I'm not getting all this. I'm not going to get a bunch of information about what

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else is going on in your place. I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to be there to know you,

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to preach the gospel to you. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's,

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and again, so what's the standard? Like how much knowledge is too much? Should Christians just not

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read newspapers? Should pastors just not read newspapers at all? We don't want to know anything

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about people. You know, I want to make sure I don't know anything among you except for Christ

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in Christ crucified. So again, it's, it's just not as straightforward in trying to understand

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what even Paul was, was saying, uh, to try to make this, this little, this gotcha issue

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in the way that, uh, whoever this DJ Jenkins guy is. So lots of issues. Um, again, we,

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I'm trying to think what else, I mean, does anybody else have something they wanted to add

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right now? Yeah. Can I jump in there real quick? Um, I got two, two very quick exegetical points.

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I pulled up that verse that Jenkins referenced, and here's the verse right before it.

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When I came to you, brothers, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom,

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but I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

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And he goes on talking about how his speech and message were not about plausible words of wisdom,

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but demonstration of spirit and power, so forth.

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So very, very quick, if you really want to sit under the teaching of Apostle Paul, then sit under that and say, well, what was he actually saying? Was he saying that I refuse to know all other information or application or cultural issues? That would be crazy considering Acts 17, when he's talking to the pagan Athenians and other places, he's telling them that I'm not your apostle because I'm the best public speaker in the world.

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I'm not your apostle because I'm tall or good looking.

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I'm not the messenger of God because of those things,

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but rather because I keep continuously preaching the truth about Jesus.

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So that's exegesis number one is you have to look at that.

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The second one hit me as we were just getting ready here,

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and it's in the well-known to Christians passage, 1 Timothy 2,

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about praying for our leaders.

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And if you don't know this one, then check it out.

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but I'm going to make a point for those who are a little bit theological too.

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First of all, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made for all

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people, for kings and all who are in high positions, presidents, etc., that we may lead a peaceful and

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quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good and it is pleasing in the sight of

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God our Savior. And here's the point I want to get at, verse 4, who desires that all people to be

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saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. And so the point I want to make there is many

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people know this verse about lifting your hands and praying for leaders and saying,

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don't hate your leaders, but pray. But sometimes we miss the point. Paul says,

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if we pray that we are going to be free to lead a peaceful, godly, dignified life,

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more people will be saved. So don't get to the point as some Christians do and make yourself a

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martyr and say, I can't wait for the hard times, then I can't wait for persecution because, you

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know, with persecution comes more real Christians and stuff like that. You know, it'll show who's

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real and who isn't. It'll cleanse the church. Paul says here the opposite. Pray that the laws

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of the nation will allow Christians to live quiet, godly, dignified, peaceful lives because

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God wants more people to be saved. And that means that we should desire for the nation to be more

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receptive to just Christians being able to hold services, to talk about Jesus, to talk about Jesus

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and him crucified. And if there's more friendly laws towards Christianity, more people will be

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save not less so those things and those things i strongly agree with those uh posters yeah so i

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feel like howerton's quote in this little video we watched it connects to that larger conversation

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we were uh engaging in it a bit last time we were together and it's it's this this question of the

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third wayism like is there a way to to not be partisan and not specifically identify

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with the political left or right and be a faithful christian and be a faithful christian pastor

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um and and so i i think that that dream of the neutral christian leader and even the neutral Christian is slowly losing steam but it also losing plausibility

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And the reality is, is that the chickens are coming home to roost and the seeds of secular

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Marxism that exist in the leftist ideology, we're starting to see the effects.

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And it's really important. I think you have to take an ahistorical view of politics in America to try to say yes and, both and.

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And there's this that's right over here, this that's right over here, like that whole idea.

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um howerton touches on it where he's like hey the the left rejects a biblical view of people

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and takes a uh a marxist idea of class struggle and uh who who people are and how they're

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structured and what their purpose is it looks them at uh at them as primarily economic beings

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It puts people apart as the oppressor and the oppressed.

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And if that's your anthropology and your view of the future of what is the good life, what is the good, what is flourishing,

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and it's a vision that is diametrically opposed to a biblical vision,

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you're not going to end up in the same place as Christ and what he's calling us to.

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So just a quick recommendation to you guys and others. I've been listening to the Hillsdale online class on the history of the American left, particularly post-World War II progressivism.

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And getting the history is so helpful to realize, oh, that's why we're having these conversations today.

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and and so what i would argue and i think uh lusk gives a helpful clarification and kind of caveat

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because it's not all like uh what's the right analogy like just uh roses and and sunshine

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sweet sunshine in for example the bible belt when it comes to ministry in the gospel and you're like

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oh it's texas and so everyone's christian here and speak for you says or just kidding and it's so

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or florida for example i don't know if like like and it are free always the one of the brave and

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that like and the drunk right like so so just being in a like christian culture or what some

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like missiologists call like christendom and there's debates around hey are we post christendom

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is that better there are different challenges in in ministering in a red state than in a in a blue

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state. Like, let's agree. And you can't ignore those challenges in the red state. And yet you

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can't equate them because it is absolutely true that law and law and order does set a foundation

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for people to understand the gospel. Bitcoin does that because code is law and it sets that

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foundation. And the one only other point I'll make is I think you also, we can't simplify the

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cause and effect. You can't say it's become conservative, therefore now it'll become,

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it's easier to share the gospel, right? You also have to look the other way. Well, you know what?

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What if they became Christian and now they're becoming conservative?

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And so the question, like, so I live in Portland and churches in Portland have to start where the

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people are at. And I think it's a good debate, and maybe we'll have this, of do you start with

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conservatism in Portland? Or do you start with aspects of the gospel that people in the culture

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would say, wow, well, like that there's something there or that Jesus, that aspect of Jesus

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of caring for the poor. I engage with that. I resonate with that. And you start them there.

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You micro dose some Jesus love for the poor. And then when they're ready for the mega dose of

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he will judge the wicked you get there so i think that's a question of of strategy and apologetics

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and a little bit of tim keller a little bit of charlie kirk and and i'm comfortable saying to

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each his own and different callings different people different giftings without trying to say

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let's throw out all and burn all our tim keller books uh or like forget charlie kirk because look

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he was too confrontational and he was mega and no christian would be mega like i don't know i'm

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i'm comfortable with some of the tension but that's just me yeah third old third way ash over

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there uh yeah i would say uh i would say is it this those two those two lusk and howerton together

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are really balanced i would say the and here's what i would say i'm probably a little bit more

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I called myself the token pietist before we started here of this podcast.

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That may just be me trying to be my own martyr, but I would say that Howerton and then Lusk's very encouraging corrections or sharpening, he didn't even really correct.

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This is the right conversation to be having.

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Let me say that.

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This is like the center of the conversation.

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And that's what I appreciate about these posts, because I think that there's little things I could disagree on, which you alluded to, Osh.

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He says, eventually they'll look for its source.

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I don't think I think that's too hopeful because you might find yourself with a conservative wife and family with your guns and your money and say, that was all I was looking for.

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Thank you. And many people do because of the flesh.

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but the point is this is a this is the center in my view of the conversation we should be having as

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christians is where is where should you fall on this uh we're on the right road where do you fall

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on that part of the road and that's what i appreciate and and how do we how do we still

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speak to um you need to be aiming towards christ at all times without just saying well you know

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some people like killing babies and some people don't do whatever drug addicts think that they

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should do. And I'm unfairly talking about the right and the left in terms of extremes.

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And so there's not an equivalence, just like what Ash said, there's not an equivalence.

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And we have to keep in mind as Christians, I brought up the angle scale when we were off,

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when we were before the pod too. We need to keep in mind, there's a journey

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the journey isn't just I got saved and baptized. The journey goes on. In fact, most of what the

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apostles and John and Jesus are talking about is going from there to maturity. And at some level,

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sometimes on the right or sometimes in churches, we forget about the fact that you're supposed to

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be going from salvation to maturity. And actually that's the job of the church. We can't forget that

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job and yet we should be, um, we should be active. And I would even go so far as to say, I know,

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I know you four, I especially know Ash and Ryan for a long time.

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Guys, if you're listening to this and you're not involved, your opinion absolutely does not matter.

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If you're, if you have an opinion, but you're not involved, your opinion is of zero value.

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We, in other words, I like my way of doing it better than your way of not doing it. Like that,

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That's one of those.

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Right.

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And it's not that hard to get involved.

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Yeah.

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So this angle scale is interesting.

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So James F. Engel wrote the book, What's Wrong with the Harvest, published by Zondervan back when it was Zondervan, 1975.

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So he has steps to Christ.

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So no awareness of God is the beginning.

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Some awareness, contact with Christians, interest in Jesus, decide to investigate Jesus, understand, grasp the truth about who Jesus is, understand the implications, acceptance of Christian truth, acceptance of the implications.

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Christian's decision to surrender to Christ, gaining confidence in their decision, experiencing

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change in their life, learning the basis of their faith, learning the Christian disciplines,

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and then sharing their faith with others. That's kind of like the maturity cycle of a Christian.

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And so I think there's a lot of people who, in the name of purity, they want to act like

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God just downloads all of the information at one time when somebody becomes a Christian. Boom,

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They just download fully mature in a hundred different ways.

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And that's just not how this has ever worked.

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Like this is just not how this, this, that God operates.

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God, like he does miraculously intervene.

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Like we are, as we mentioned, we are Calvinists here.

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And yet God has means, God has sowing and God has designed the world in every way to

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work according to the principles of sowing and reaping.

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And so we can't act like actions don't have consequences and decisions that are taken at an individual level, at a family level, at a cultural level, church level, whatever it is, aren't going to then have downstream effects.

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And so I think one of my great hopes is just that more and more people will just wake up to and not being childish. We're called to be childlike, but not childish. And so trying to have wisdom to discern where those things are different is important.

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because like there's two, so many people, many Christians have a very childish understanding

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of evil and of how good and evil work and how do, you know, and how they multiply. And so

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that'd be one thing. One example of this that I think would be helpful for clarification

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is the story of the Good Samaritan. There was, I almost, I didn't end up writing this piece,

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but I had this idea. I have too many, I have so many pieces that I want to write, but then

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they just can't get around to them. I can't get around to them all. So I'm a piece that I want to

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write about the story of the good Samaritan, because as, as I looked at the last election

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and I looked at, you know, the people who, the, the available options, you know, you have

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functionally speaking, you have Trump or you have Kamala, you've got, you've got her. And then

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you've got some other guys who didn't have a, you know, much of a chance of actually winning.

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And so as, as I was just looking at that, at that situation of like who to, who to vote for

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in my personal opinion, just given where their positions are on stuff, there was no way on God's

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earth that I was ever going to vote for Kamala Harris, just due to her position on abortion and

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a hundred other things in terms of, I mean, again, we could talk about trans issues, trying to take

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kids away from their parents because of those issues. There's a hundred different things that

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we could give. So I think one principle that'd be really important to point out is that this

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this question will not, it'll look different depending on the context. It'll look different

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depending on quote unquote, what time it is. The men of Issachar were a, these were mighty men.

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These were guys who in the old Testament were praised for knowing, having unique wisdom to know

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what Israel should do in a certain season. And so these were men who, while David was fleeing

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from King Saul, David had been anointed as the next king and Saul was trying to chase him down

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and kill him. These men made the decision, and this is among other things, they made the decision

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to go and ally themselves with David while he was an enemy of the state, an enemy of King Saul.

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And they are commended for this, again, political treason that they committed,

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according to the letter of the law at that time.

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And so it's this type of wisdom that we need to figure out,

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okay, wait, what time is it?

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Because there's things that God calls us to do,

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like in trying to discern what God wants us to do,

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there's some times where the thing that we should do

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is the exact opposite of what we should do.

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And even that's spelled out for us to do in other situations.

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So that would be one thing.

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So as I was thinking about the story of the Good Samaritan,

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it just hit me that there's three people who are,

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three people come along and find the beaten man, find the Samaritan. The first two are religious

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men. And neither one of them crosses over to help this Samaritan, this injured Samaritan man,

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because they didn't want to violate their ritual purity. It didn't mean that they would have been

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sinning by touching him and by helping him, but they would not have been able to minister in the

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temple. That was the thing that because if they were unclean, they wouldn't have been able to do

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it. They would have had to wait a period of time to have had to go through this process.

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And so it wasn't a question of sinning. It was a question of maintaining their ritual purity,

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which led them to make the decision not to help this person and love their injured neighbor.

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And so then it's the third man, it's the Samaritan who comes along to help the

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the injured Jewish man. And he doesn't let his ritual purity matter to him and stop him

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from helping and saving this man's life. And so I think that what a lot of us and a lot of pastors

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need to reckon with is trying to figure out, okay, what kind of situation are we in?

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Because in my mind, voting for Donald Trump is not a decision that I just trivially, I take

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trivially because I agree with Donald Trump on everything, his treatment of women, his, you know,

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his attitude towards his business. Like it's not, it's not this thing where I just get this giant

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thrill for voting for Donald Trump at the same time, because of what was at stake.

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Like it was that I came to a place where I just basically was like, eh, for me to not vote for

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Trump, given everything going on in the country would be akin to me leaving the, would be akin to

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me leaving the injured man there on the side of the road. And specifically, it's actually even

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easier for me in this case, because it would actually be my children who would be lying on

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the side of the road, who are, you know, being literally offered up to Molech and offered up to

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whoever you want to, if this other person came into office. And so in my mind, I'm like, okay,

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so there is a case, there's a time to be ritually unclean for the sake of doing the bigger picture

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good thing. And God will judge you if you don't do that. If you don't weigh what time it is and

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understand it appropriately, God will judge you for that. And so we have to, so again, this is not

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this super nice and clean where we get to all feel great about the decision that we're making.

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Again, there's, again, a hundred things that I disagree with Donald Trump and I think he's a

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nightmare in a whole host of ways. And yet at the same time, I would, it's the easiest decision,

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on the other hand, it's the easiest decision to vote for him because of what time it was.

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Another thing that I would say is, another thing that's important, and I wish I had the example for half of this,

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but there were times in which Jesus agreed with the Pharisees,

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and there were other times where Jesus agreed with the Sadducees.

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And so Jesus didn't let the fact that he was going to be agreeing with either the Pharisees or the Sadducees

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dictate whether or not he was going to state and align himself with one of those things,

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because Jesus's goal was, I only do the things that honor my father. And Jesus's goal was,

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I want to love my neighbor. And so that's what drove Jesus to do what he did and he didn't do.

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And so for the example with the Pharisees is Jesus agreed, Jesus talked about the resurrection.

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And so because of that, the Pharisees could have turned around and go, yes, he's our guy. You know,

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this is our guy. And yet we know a hundred examples of Jesus going to town and ripping

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them a new one in many cases because of how awful they were. And so I think what a lot of people,

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at least who I've talked to, who are suspicious of specifically of Christian political involvement,

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the ones who I'm seeing are largely more skeptical of aligning with Trump in that

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political alignment. I don't see a lot of people who are concerned on the left, who are concerned

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with aligning themselves with political power.

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This has been going on among left-wing Christians

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for many years.

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They have not neglected to take part in the political areas.

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You could look at the African-American church.

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You could look at a lot of these other churches.

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They have been very politically active, and it shows.

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By virtue of not neglecting these areas

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and neglecting stewardship and faithfulness

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in some of these areas,

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they have achieved a level of political power that is frankly, I mean, it's impressive.

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It really is.

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In Oregon, we haven't had a Republican governor basically my entire life.

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Yeah.

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It's been one party rule.

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That is total domination.

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And that is entirely because the Christians in Oregon don't vote.

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and they're not politically active.

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And I literally, I say they don't vote.

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It's 50% of the church turns out

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during a presidential election.

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It's only 50%.

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And that's the high end.

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On like the lesser elections,

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it can be as low as like 10 or 15% sometimes.

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It's just total abdication.

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And it's like, that's why there's such a giant pushback

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on Christians getting involved in politics.

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I wanted to add something.

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At the beginning, Ash was talking about what it's like in a really liberal city.

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I had the experience of living in two liberals in Portland Hawaii and now a conservative small town in Oregon And I noticed a couple things

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If you are a conservative Christian living in a liberal city, I almost now believe you really have to be radical to stay super faithful.

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because if you're not, the city,

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if you want to call it again, this sounds cheesy,

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the liberal air that you're going to be breathing

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every single day will influence you

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more than you're influencing the community around you.

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And it's just like the picture of soccer.

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You can't just play defense and win a game ever.

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You have to play offense.

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If you're not playing offense,

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you're going to lose every single game

400
00:37:01,883 --> 00:37:04,003
or maybe a couple of ties.

401
00:37:04,063 --> 00:37:10,803
But it's like, it's that thing where, like, I think the offense in this picture is building the kingdom.

402
00:37:10,983 --> 00:37:12,103
It's Matthew 28.

403
00:37:13,363 --> 00:37:27,623
And really trying to impact the culture around you, impacting the laws, standing up for the fentanyl addicts that are on the verge of death on the streets that are just being handed clean needles instead of actual help.

404
00:37:27,943 --> 00:37:29,003
Nobody's being held accountable.

405
00:37:29,283 --> 00:37:31,183
That's the justice system.

406
00:37:31,263 --> 00:37:32,363
It's fighting for things like that.

407
00:37:32,363 --> 00:37:38,983
It's seeing the lies, calling them out, and rallying support to try to do something about them.

408
00:37:39,043 --> 00:37:43,423
Otherwise, I honestly think we can end up getting some—

409
00:37:43,423 --> 00:37:47,943
I think we're going to get the guilt on our hands more than we understand.

410
00:37:50,623 --> 00:37:53,363
So, yeah, it's—

411
00:37:54,363 --> 00:37:57,363
And the other thing, and this is a really subtle thing.

412
00:37:57,363 --> 00:38:06,263
and this touches two different topics i don't think people understand the impacts

413
00:38:06,263 --> 00:38:13,123
uh their environment have on their soul we talk about the companion of fools we talk about how

414
00:38:13,123 --> 00:38:17,643
important it is to hang around like good influences things like that company corrupts good morals

415
00:38:17,643 --> 00:38:28,663
yeah yeah uh a city will influence you i've now been removed from two liberal cities and i'm now

416
00:38:28,663 --> 00:38:33,163
in this conservative thing and i'm literally like my little my conservative my little meter

417
00:38:33,163 --> 00:38:40,143
is just like i'm getting more and more confident bold courageous i can confirm that yeah and i see

418
00:38:40,143 --> 00:38:47,023
that in ryan my my standards uh right and wrong it's like no like that's absolutely wicked like

419
00:38:47,023 --> 00:38:55,563
the standard gets dropped so low in certain cities that you're just like,

420
00:38:55,843 --> 00:38:57,143
it just becomes normal.

421
00:38:57,143 --> 00:39:02,743
I would say, I would argue that it's the equivalent of going into a home with no rules.

422
00:39:03,203 --> 00:39:04,143
Like, it's total lawlessness.

423
00:39:04,923 --> 00:39:07,003
And you're just like, oh, well, that's just the way it is.

424
00:39:07,283 --> 00:39:10,743
I just guess we don't even call the police here in this community because they don't respond.

425
00:39:11,663 --> 00:39:13,903
And it's just like, that's insane.

426
00:39:14,143 --> 00:39:16,083
I now live in a community that people will call.

427
00:39:16,083 --> 00:39:24,403
Like if you get your $5 flower pot stolen off your porch, they're calling the cops and they expect the cops to come out.

428
00:39:25,003 --> 00:39:27,083
Like we're in different worlds.

429
00:39:28,023 --> 00:39:38,863
And I actually think that it's not a good thing when all good laws are all thrown out and the standards just keep getting lowered and lowered and lowered.

430
00:39:38,863 --> 00:39:44,423
and again I also I do want to throw out there I'm sympathetic because it's like dude it is

431
00:39:44,423 --> 00:39:49,123
it is super challenging living in a really really liberal city because if yeah if you have any sort

432
00:39:49,123 --> 00:39:56,563
of high standards you will get chewed up yeah um yeah anyways I think it is it is it's one of

433
00:39:56,563 --> 00:40:01,943
these things where we need to know why we're doing what we're doing right we need to know

434
00:40:01,943 --> 00:40:07,023
why we're doing what we're doing and we also we need to make sure again what is what is motivating

435
00:40:07,023 --> 00:40:12,123
us is love for God and love for your neighbor. Because there's been a lot of people for whom

436
00:40:12,123 --> 00:40:17,243
the dichotomy, the false dichotomy that's presented them is you're either going to love your neighbor

437
00:40:17,243 --> 00:40:23,123
or you're going to be involved in politics, or you're either going to love God or you're going

438
00:40:23,123 --> 00:40:28,463
to be involved in politics. And it is just staggering the historical and biblical ignorance

439
00:40:28,463 --> 00:40:33,503
of that position. Like it is so historically uninformed. And so with that, we will,

440
00:40:33,503 --> 00:40:39,263
sure, we have another thing here illustrating this. Another tweet. There's Victor Marx. Here

441
00:40:39,263 --> 00:40:43,643
we go. The big lie that has infiltrated the Western church is the church shouldn't speak

442
00:40:43,643 --> 00:40:48,543
about politics. While the Bible is literally full of prophet politicians and prophetic politicians,

443
00:40:49,343 --> 00:40:55,523
religion will always be political because politics by nature are religious. The church was and always

444
00:40:55,523 --> 00:40:59,423
will be biblical and therefore political. The church must be involved in political and public

445
00:40:59,423 --> 00:41:04,203
debate. The church is the moral conscience in a sexually perverted world, and perverted in a

446
00:41:04,203 --> 00:41:09,783
hundred other ways too. The church is the mental stability in a LGBTQ plus depressed world. The

447
00:41:09,783 --> 00:41:14,583
church is the only voice of life in a baby killing, abortion celebrating, and death worshiping world,

448
00:41:14,643 --> 00:41:20,923
literally. Have you seen Joseph? Have you seen Daniel? Have you seen Shadrach, Meshach, and

449
00:41:20,923 --> 00:41:26,323
Abednego? Have you seen Moses? Have you seen Elijah, Elisha, Nehemiah, Esther? All of these people,

450
00:41:26,323 --> 00:41:34,503
all of these people are biblical figures who took like whose actions were inherently political

451
00:41:34,503 --> 00:41:40,823
there were constant political consequences jason in the book of acts oh these people are there

452
00:41:40,823 --> 00:41:44,543
were the politicians the the local people were saying you know non-christian people were saying

453
00:41:44,543 --> 00:41:50,583
these people were turning the world upside down jesus was not killed because of his unpopular

454
00:41:50,583 --> 00:41:56,043
religious sermons that were divorced of any context or divorced of any effect on the surrounding

455
00:41:56,043 --> 00:42:00,123
culture. Jesus threatened the political order of the Romans, threatened the political order

456
00:42:00,123 --> 00:42:08,203
of the existing political culture of the Herodians and the Pharisees. Everything that was going on,

457
00:42:08,263 --> 00:42:13,263
they were politically threatened by Jesus. And so they killed him because of his political

458
00:42:13,263 --> 00:42:20,623
influence. And so it's just not in touch with reality to try to maintain and try to have this

459
00:42:20,623 --> 00:42:25,083
idea that we can just keep our hands clean. We can stay ritually pure by quote unquote,

460
00:42:25,083 --> 00:42:30,743
just preaching the gospel. This is just not, again, it's a misunderstanding in a, you know,

461
00:42:30,803 --> 00:42:37,743
not, it's a misunderstanding of what Christians are called to. So I, yeah. Ash, anything to add?

462
00:42:39,923 --> 00:42:43,143
Yeah, hold on. Let's see if stop.

463
00:42:43,143 --> 00:42:52,843
Yeah, so I think one of the lessons from Charlie Kirk is,

464
00:42:53,023 --> 00:42:56,843
and this is the video we played, touched on this,

465
00:42:56,903 --> 00:43:00,543
Howard's video, and Kirk's pastor who spoke at the memorial,

466
00:43:01,403 --> 00:43:05,123
he gave the illustration of the stream,

467
00:43:05,263 --> 00:43:10,283
swimming in the stream of freedom brings you closer to the source,

468
00:43:10,283 --> 00:43:11,303
who is Jesus.

469
00:43:11,303 --> 00:43:23,483
and there there's something to that and and so i've i think one of the lessons is whoever you are

470
00:43:23,483 --> 00:43:29,823
christians in whatever vocation right you're you're a stay-at-home mom you're a business owner

471
00:43:29,823 --> 00:43:38,983
you're a pastor or you're in politics whatever it is be more bold about your faith stop being ashamed

472
00:43:38,983 --> 00:43:45,463
of Christian morality, wherever it touches, no matter how offensive it is, don't be afraid of

473
00:43:45,463 --> 00:43:53,123
getting canceled. Like Jesus says, right? Fear not, not a hair of your head will perish, right?

474
00:43:53,163 --> 00:43:59,243
But cut off your head, but they're not going to hurt your hair. Fear not, like no matter how much

475
00:43:59,243 --> 00:44:05,063
they cancel you, you might lose your job. You might be kicked off social media, but not a hair

476
00:44:05,063 --> 00:44:13,763
of your head will perish. So courage under fire, unapologetic, and yet compelling gentleness. Paul

477
00:44:13,763 --> 00:44:20,843
exhorts us in the pastoral epistles to correct your opponents with gentleness. Okay, so we don't

478
00:44:20,843 --> 00:44:26,103
have, I think some of the resistance, particularly of the older generation, the Christian evangelical

479
00:44:26,103 --> 00:44:33,763
boomers who avoided the Christian right and the conservative Christian conversations saw some of

480
00:44:33,763 --> 00:44:38,823
like the talk show hosts the rush limbaugh's and some of that and there were these caricatures and

481
00:44:38,823 --> 00:44:45,023
i don't know about you guys but like i think for ryan and i like i was never uh impressed by george

482
00:44:45,023 --> 00:44:51,403
w and like i would just come to faith i went to bible college right as as like so it was the george

483
00:44:51,403 --> 00:44:58,963
w era of of christian politics and i'm like this is like globalism like warm mongering we're gonna

484
00:44:58,963 --> 00:45:05,963
to go in like export weapons of mass destruction yeah we're gonna export our like american virtues

485
00:45:05,963 --> 00:45:10,683
and democracy to the middle east watch your tongue talking about uncle george all right calm down

486
00:45:10,683 --> 00:45:16,163
yeah so like i i was just i was never i'm like if that's what a christian politician looks like i'm

487
00:45:16,163 --> 00:45:21,523
not that impressed and i just kind of opted out of that whole era or ryan and i went and campaigned

488
00:45:21,523 --> 00:45:22,183
for Ron Paul.

489
00:45:22,823 --> 00:45:24,003
Ron Paul came around.

490
00:45:24,523 --> 00:45:26,343
And then all of a sudden, you're like, dude.

491
00:45:27,963 --> 00:45:32,783
So I get it that the church has not always aligned

492
00:45:32,783 --> 00:45:36,223
with the right political heroes.

493
00:45:36,523 --> 00:45:37,963
And there's a sense in which you think,

494
00:45:38,043 --> 00:45:38,983
oh, this is the hero.

495
00:45:39,123 --> 00:45:39,743
This is the savior.

496
00:45:39,943 --> 00:45:42,123
That's an idolatry and a risk.

497
00:45:42,723 --> 00:45:47,063
And so I'm more about let's be issue-focused.

498
00:45:48,083 --> 00:45:49,863
And this is something with William Wilberforce, right?

499
00:45:49,863 --> 00:45:54,003
So he built coalitions around key Christian issues.

500
00:45:54,463 --> 00:46:00,483
And he was unapologetic where a sin in his culture confronted with the Bible.

501
00:46:00,703 --> 00:46:01,803
And he confronted that.

502
00:46:01,883 --> 00:46:05,003
And he didn't care who, whatever party you were on.

503
00:46:05,043 --> 00:46:09,523
If you were going to join him and fight you against that issue, he was going to, he would join you.

504
00:46:10,083 --> 00:46:14,923
And so I think we should be issue focused before part is party focused.

505
00:46:15,663 --> 00:46:19,703
But where there's party alignment, let's not be afraid to align with a party.

506
00:46:19,863 --> 00:46:27,943
right and then the only other thing i'll say is is we should like uh kevin de young and his book

507
00:46:27,943 --> 00:46:33,963
like what is the mission of the church i think i agree with probably 80 of it and honestly i read

508
00:46:33,963 --> 00:46:41,043
it when i was more on the social justice side of things and what they were responding to is

509
00:46:41,043 --> 00:46:49,503
is the like the like hot button issue like this is the the like whatever the the big thing to be

510
00:46:49,503 --> 00:46:54,703
against is. I'll put it on my social profile, whatever flag it happens to be, whatever issue.

511
00:46:56,703 --> 00:47:02,943
DeYoung was responding to the church getting caught up with social justice and certain issues

512
00:47:02,943 --> 00:47:08,223
and telling everyone and binding every Christian's conscience, you need to be about this issue.

513
00:47:08,843 --> 00:47:15,363
And their argument is the church exists to make disciples and plant churches and preach the gospel.

514
00:47:15,783 --> 00:47:17,683
That's the church institutional.

515
00:47:18,823 --> 00:47:28,483
Christians, in your own calling, can be deeply animated and activated over an issue that they believe,

516
00:47:28,563 --> 00:47:32,003
hey, this is biblical and I'm called to work on this issue.

517
00:47:32,483 --> 00:47:38,703
And you can go and try to mobilize fellow Christians to it, but don't make every Sunday about your pet issue.

518
00:47:39,603 --> 00:47:42,483
Even if it's a worthy issue, right?

519
00:47:42,583 --> 00:47:44,743
So I think pastors need discernment.

520
00:47:45,363 --> 00:47:51,303
theology is application. John Frame is right. You can't just breach ethereal ideas and morality

521
00:47:51,303 --> 00:47:58,783
without applying it to the context and the culture. But you also need, you can't let a

522
00:47:58,783 --> 00:48:06,623
particular application and a particular issue outweigh the gospel and a come one, come all,

523
00:48:06,943 --> 00:48:13,563
wherever you are, we need Jesus. So there you go. Again, my trying to go through the needle.

524
00:48:13,563 --> 00:48:16,803
disgusting needle threader

525
00:48:16,803 --> 00:48:17,683
oh my goodness

526
00:48:17,683 --> 00:48:20,443
go ahead

527
00:48:20,443 --> 00:48:21,983
I was just going to say

528
00:48:21,983 --> 00:48:26,343
it hasn't been easy on anyone

529
00:48:26,343 --> 00:48:28,983
over the last four decades

530
00:48:28,983 --> 00:48:31,163
because when you have

531
00:48:31,163 --> 00:48:35,443
I would say the majority of the church

532
00:48:35,443 --> 00:48:37,623
viewed politics as bad

533
00:48:37,623 --> 00:48:40,723
separation of church and state

534
00:48:40,723 --> 00:48:42,103
misunderstanding of it

535
00:48:42,103 --> 00:48:46,083
it exists to keep the state from influencing the church,

536
00:48:46,103 --> 00:48:47,043
not the other way around.

537
00:48:47,103 --> 00:48:47,783
So misunderstanding.

538
00:48:48,263 --> 00:48:50,903
So then the church completely retreated out.

539
00:48:50,903 --> 00:48:58,383
So the difficult part was it took an extremist to try to push back against that

540
00:48:58,383 --> 00:49:00,703
because you would absolutely just get wrecked.

541
00:49:00,843 --> 00:49:05,123
Like Pat Robertson's warning of like the doom to come.

542
00:49:05,223 --> 00:49:08,643
And Pat Robertson was just laughed out of the evangelical circles.

543
00:49:09,103 --> 00:49:09,703
And guess what?

544
00:49:09,983 --> 00:49:10,483
He was rabid.

545
00:49:10,483 --> 00:49:13,723
Everything he predicted, everything he predicted came through.

546
00:49:13,883 --> 00:49:14,363
It's like.

547
00:49:14,723 --> 00:49:18,743
This is, this is where, again, I, we've talked about this with other issues too, where you

548
00:49:18,743 --> 00:49:23,343
have to, you have to recognize that the situation that you're in matters.

549
00:49:23,683 --> 00:49:25,403
Don't give me your Bible verses.

550
00:49:25,643 --> 00:49:25,803
Okay.

551
00:49:25,883 --> 00:49:29,563
Don't give me your conveniently plucked out out of the middle of nowhere, Bible verses

552
00:49:29,563 --> 00:49:30,703
and throw them at me.

553
00:49:30,743 --> 00:49:31,683
They're not going to work.

554
00:49:31,723 --> 00:49:32,683
They have no power here.

555
00:49:32,703 --> 00:49:32,943
Okay.

556
00:49:32,983 --> 00:49:37,343
This is why, because like, like, it's just not going to work because this is the, this

557
00:49:37,343 --> 00:49:38,183
is the situation, right?

558
00:49:38,183 --> 00:49:40,123
Imagine you have a morbidly obese man.

559
00:49:40,563 --> 00:49:43,223
This morbidly obese man, what does he need?

560
00:49:43,883 --> 00:49:46,743
He needs to fast for a long time.

561
00:49:47,143 --> 00:49:48,043
He needs to fast.

562
00:49:48,383 --> 00:49:52,903
Now, again, if you find a starving person, do they need to fast for a long time?

563
00:49:52,943 --> 00:49:53,963
No, they've been fasting.

564
00:49:54,103 --> 00:49:54,783
They need to eat.

565
00:49:55,183 --> 00:49:59,903
They're probably going to eat way more than this other guy is going to eat over the course of a period of time.

566
00:50:00,503 --> 00:50:02,683
And that's not because one of them is an extremist.

567
00:50:02,823 --> 00:50:06,663
It's because they've been extremists, and now we're trying to help them become more healthy.

568
00:50:06,663 --> 00:50:13,163
and so the the american church has been way too extreme it's been extremely absent and extremely

569
00:50:13,163 --> 00:50:20,463
like um left aside their responsibilities for decades and so yes now once we tell them hey

570
00:50:20,463 --> 00:50:24,763
you know once we start telling people hey this you just need to be faithful uh in your in your

571
00:50:24,763 --> 00:50:29,503
local towns in your cities whatever it's going to sound extremist but that's because you've that's

572
00:50:29,503 --> 00:50:34,503
because you've been extremist you've been extremist and we're trying to help bring you back towards

573
00:50:34,503 --> 00:50:36,543
normalcy. And so I think

574
00:50:36,543 --> 00:50:38,183
this is, it's a really big deal. Here we go.

575
00:50:38,343 --> 00:50:40,483
There's one more video we have here. This is

576
00:50:40,483 --> 00:50:41,703
Charlie Kirk talking about this issue.

577
00:50:42,683 --> 00:50:44,543
I was wondering why doesn't the

578
00:50:44,543 --> 00:50:46,623
right have, like the left has dominated

579
00:50:46,623 --> 00:50:48,463
culture for so long to have, you know, the

580
00:50:48,463 --> 00:50:50,383
feminist movement. We can blame that for destroying the

581
00:50:50,383 --> 00:50:52,063
nuclear home. We can blame that for

582
00:50:52,063 --> 00:50:54,343
destroying marriages in a lot of ways.

583
00:50:54,543 --> 00:50:56,083
But how do we kind of

584
00:50:56,083 --> 00:50:58,583
work backwards from that, kind of get back

585
00:50:58,583 --> 00:51:00,303
to like their core American values,

586
00:51:00,763 --> 00:51:02,583
you know, lower the divorce

587
00:51:02,583 --> 00:51:04,423
rate, lower single motherhood,

588
00:51:04,503 --> 00:51:05,303
Things like that.

589
00:51:05,603 --> 00:51:09,783
It doesn't seem to be like a practical solution that's been even attempted by the writer.

590
00:51:10,223 --> 00:51:12,523
Well, the practical solution, we don't have to think.

591
00:51:12,603 --> 00:51:15,083
We need to point people to God and eventually to Jesus Christ.

592
00:51:15,503 --> 00:51:19,943
And that is the sedation, is that people need to humble themselves before the Lord.

593
00:51:20,263 --> 00:51:21,443
They need to go back to church.

594
00:51:21,903 --> 00:51:24,023
They need to get married before they have sex.

595
00:51:24,283 --> 00:51:28,963
They need to stop engaging in debauchery and limitless amounts of drinking and the sins of the flesh.

596
00:51:29,923 --> 00:51:33,743
And understand that there's a God who loves them that wants them to live a certain way.

597
00:51:33,743 --> 00:51:36,883
and it's not a feminist movement

598
00:51:36,883 --> 00:51:39,163
or the Black Lives Matter movement.

599
00:51:39,583 --> 00:51:41,143
We need a movement that is centered

600
00:51:41,143 --> 00:51:43,263
around spiritual eternal principles

601
00:51:43,263 --> 00:51:45,823
and yeah, make America holy again,

602
00:51:45,883 --> 00:51:47,163
make America Christian again,

603
00:51:47,583 --> 00:51:49,883
but a revival will only happen with repentance

604
00:51:49,883 --> 00:51:52,303
and repentance is at odd with pride.

605
00:51:53,043 --> 00:51:55,003
And so we have an entire month dedicated to pride,

606
00:51:55,103 --> 00:51:57,803
by the way, which is you must acknowledge two things.

607
00:51:57,803 --> 00:52:00,523
There is a God and we are not him.

608
00:52:01,263 --> 00:52:03,443
Those two things are fundamental towards having

609
00:52:03,443 --> 00:52:09,403
hopefully the humility of getting in front of your creator, understanding that you fall short

610
00:52:09,403 --> 00:52:13,703
of the glory of God with the eyes on the cross and understanding the significance of what the cross

611
00:52:13,703 --> 00:52:19,443
is and what it means for your life. And with that will come widespread nationwide change.

612
00:52:19,903 --> 00:52:24,023
We are seeing some promising trends. Church attendance is slightly going up. Gen Z,

613
00:52:24,023 --> 00:52:29,543
especially Gen Z men, are more religious than millennial men, and it is increasing and growing.

614
00:52:29,543 --> 00:52:34,163
and young women, we got some things to work through.

615
00:52:34,443 --> 00:52:36,323
But all right, we'll stop there.

616
00:52:36,963 --> 00:52:40,263
This is something I, again, just knowing what time it is,

617
00:52:40,323 --> 00:52:41,623
I think it's really important.

618
00:52:41,803 --> 00:52:44,403
One example of this, somebody else was talking about this.

619
00:52:44,403 --> 00:52:46,663
They said there were kings of Israel

620
00:52:46,663 --> 00:52:50,563
where they were faithful kings in many ways,

621
00:52:50,703 --> 00:52:56,243
but they didn't snuff out the worship of idols.

622
00:52:56,243 --> 00:53:02,083
so it's like we don't have categories for that type of thing very well we're like wait a second

623
00:53:02,083 --> 00:53:06,503
either they're all good or they're all bad and then that makes it easy for us it's convenient

624
00:53:06,503 --> 00:53:10,703
for us because we're lazy and because we want to focus on football and making money and all these

625
00:53:10,703 --> 00:53:14,883
other things we have a problem like with the idea that there can be things can be more complex

626
00:53:14,883 --> 00:53:22,303
and so again the idea that there could be in the midst of like as we're pursuing you know to to

627
00:53:22,303 --> 00:53:29,083
represent and we want our society to become more aligned with Jesus. And we want our people to

628
00:53:29,083 --> 00:53:34,463
understand and see, people around us to see the goodness of God's revealed will for marriage and

629
00:53:34,463 --> 00:53:39,583
for all these other things. It's easy to be like, oh, well, I don't want to give people a false,

630
00:53:40,003 --> 00:53:44,183
you know, a false hope that if they get this good thing, if they, you know, if it's easier for them,

631
00:53:44,183 --> 00:53:48,623
then maybe they won't, you know, then maybe they won't follow Jesus. In the name of that,

632
00:53:48,623 --> 00:53:53,483
like to try to, to try to, I don't know. It's like cutting off your, your nose to spite your face.

633
00:53:53,523 --> 00:53:58,163
It just doesn't make, it doesn't make any sense. And so again, we have to recognize that yes,

634
00:53:58,583 --> 00:54:03,323
we as Christians, if you're a Christian, you will still be needed. No matter how good and

635
00:54:03,323 --> 00:54:08,243
Christian your society is, you will still be needed to stand up and be salt and light,

636
00:54:08,523 --> 00:54:14,083
especially, especially if there are Christians who are politicians. Like this is why Wilberforce

637
00:54:14,083 --> 00:54:26,505
in 18th century 17th century whatever it is 17th century England his arguments his methods were to take the scriptures and hold it up to them and say you being hypocrites You love

638
00:54:26,505 --> 00:54:31,745
money more than you love image bearers of God. Like this is, it's wrong. It's wrong. You're

639
00:54:31,745 --> 00:54:37,825
content to make money at their expense. It's wrong. And the reason it had so much power was

640
00:54:37,825 --> 00:54:43,205
because these were a deeply Christian people who had these things inculcated and they were

641
00:54:43,205 --> 00:54:49,365
hypocrites at certain points. And so hypocrisy is not, the fact that there will be hypocrisy is not

642
00:54:49,365 --> 00:54:54,545
a reason not to pursue the broad Christianization as much as we're able to within a culture.

643
00:54:56,985 --> 00:55:03,225
At the very, very least, we had a little small emergency. This little one got an injury, but

644
00:55:03,225 --> 00:55:09,225
at the very, very least, go back to the first Timothy and say, I want to pray that I will live

645
00:55:09,225 --> 00:55:16,625
in a country that at the very least is friendly to Christians living their lives, literally living

646
00:55:16,625 --> 00:55:25,805
your life, where he says living godly, peaceful, quiet lives. And then you go from there. So if

647
00:55:25,805 --> 00:55:30,285
you're going to a place where every Christian is called a racist, every Christian is called

648
00:55:30,285 --> 00:55:35,645
everything phobe, every Christian is called whatever, now you're in a place where

649
00:55:35,645 --> 00:55:42,825
cultural and even legal action can be taken against you for just leading a peaceful, quiet,

650
00:55:43,145 --> 00:55:47,765
godly life and talking to your neighbors about the Lord. So that's like the floor.

651
00:55:48,265 --> 00:55:52,785
And we have to admit that there isn't equivalency in the nation that we live in now.

652
00:55:52,945 --> 00:55:57,965
And this is becoming more and more evident as the responses to Charlie Kirk's murder continue

653
00:55:57,965 --> 00:56:05,505
to double down and triple down and quadruple down. Yeah. Hillary Clinton. Yeah. Yep.

654
00:56:05,645 --> 00:56:15,285
yeah the problem is white christian men right yeah let's i mean we got we got a few minutes

655
00:56:15,285 --> 00:56:20,905
here let's close out and just touch on this this other question i'll put this to you guys whoever

656
00:56:20,905 --> 00:56:26,605
wants to answer so i do think there is a question and a more open question i think we've established

657
00:56:26,605 --> 00:56:29,965
that christians being involved in politics like this is something that we're called to do

658
00:56:29,965 --> 00:56:54,965
But in terms of the pulpit, in terms of the place of the role of the pastor of speaking to political things, we've seen in the last four or five years with COVID and these things, we saw what happened when pastors tried to pass the buck and tried to avoid it altogether, which actually looked like going, which actually looked like being very political and closing down churches and making people wear masks and all kinds of other things.

659
00:56:54,965 --> 00:57:17,625
But we have people who don't want to get political, at least on certain things. There is a healthy component to that, right? There is a danger in being the church where the American flag is higher than the Christian flag or where every sermon you're talking about the political topic du jour.

660
00:57:17,625 --> 00:57:21,825
and that's being like, there are churches where this is actually a real live issue.

661
00:57:22,345 --> 00:57:28,845
So maybe kind of speak to that. What does this look like to, how do we do this well? Not saying

662
00:57:28,845 --> 00:57:32,565
that we need to do this perfectly, where if we don't do it perfectly, then we shouldn't do it at

663
00:57:32,565 --> 00:57:38,525
all. No, we should be content trying to fail and be faithful and it's going to happen. But what does

664
00:57:38,525 --> 00:57:43,265
this look like? If you were trying to encourage or think through again, as some of you have been

665
00:57:43,265 --> 00:57:49,065
pastors, like how do you, or are, or have been pastors, how do you think about the, the, a healthy

666
00:57:49,065 --> 00:57:54,345
relationship between, you know, these topics or with this topic? Yeah, I was going to say, I mean,

667
00:57:54,345 --> 00:58:04,065
it's, it's, uh, I've read a lot of D. Martin Lloyd-Jones sermons and he's always been a person

668
00:58:04,065 --> 00:58:11,225
I've looked up to as far as like, he had a deep insight into the brokenness in their culture at

669
00:58:11,225 --> 00:58:19,665
the time and every single sermon that he had uh what is right in front of you as a preacher

670
00:58:19,665 --> 00:58:29,185
is your source of illustrations and um that powerfully bring points home to your your church

671
00:58:29,185 --> 00:58:37,145
um and it's it's super i think it's super necessary i mean i i actually i've been i was

672
00:58:37,145 --> 00:58:39,665
talking about this to my boys this past week.

673
00:58:40,865 --> 00:58:43,905
How do I teach them without giving them real life examples?

674
00:58:44,805 --> 00:58:47,145
When, you know, when it says you were to like,

675
00:58:47,205 --> 00:58:50,945
as you're walking and sitting and talking with your kids,

676
00:58:53,085 --> 00:58:55,365
like, dude, you're like, as fathers,

677
00:58:55,365 --> 00:58:57,525
we should be constantly giving real life examples

678
00:58:57,525 --> 00:59:01,405
and illustrations of the points that we're talking

679
00:59:01,405 --> 00:59:02,325
or we're teaching them.

680
00:59:02,485 --> 00:59:03,885
It's the same thing with a pastor.

681
00:59:03,885 --> 00:59:11,025
there has to be an enormous fear of God and no fear of man and if those aren't if those aren't

682
00:59:11,025 --> 00:59:16,965
realities it becomes very uh I think it gets a little bit lopsided because I mean and I say this

683
00:59:16,965 --> 00:59:22,785
as like you know I think everybody all men have struggled to some degree with the fear of man

684
00:59:22,785 --> 00:59:29,205
um but when you're up in front of hundreds and hundreds of people like that your fear of man

685
00:59:29,205 --> 00:59:34,705
gets amplified and you can get terrified because there's literally, there's, you can, if you preach

686
00:59:34,705 --> 00:59:40,405
specifically about an issue in our culture today, you will lose people in your church. And you have

687
00:59:40,405 --> 00:59:47,025
to be willing to do that. Otherwise it's a fear of man. And it's just, you know, and so it's,

688
00:59:47,105 --> 00:59:51,665
but, you know, I think we're also coming out of several decades of like seeker sensitive,

689
00:59:52,425 --> 00:59:56,125
even though we won't call it that, but like we've adjusted church. Church has changed,

690
00:59:56,125 --> 01:00:00,805
tradition's gone like churches all across the country have radically changed how how they do

691
01:00:00,805 --> 01:00:06,185
everything over the last 40 years because they've always been looking oh well how is it going to

692
01:00:06,185 --> 01:00:10,325
make them feel and you know we don't want to offend them oh we want to make it more inviting

693
01:00:10,325 --> 01:00:15,225
we want to give it you know their context all this stuff and we threw out everything and it's like

694
01:00:15,225 --> 01:00:21,745
was that good i don't think so and i think we're i think we're this is probably i would argue and

695
01:00:21,745 --> 01:00:27,685
say this is going to be the beginning of several decades of the young, especially the younger

696
01:00:27,685 --> 01:00:33,445
generation is going to be wrestling with everything. Why did my elders stop singing hymns? Why did

697
01:00:33,445 --> 01:00:38,785
they stop? Why did they show up to church? Why did they change the way they dress and change this

698
01:00:38,785 --> 01:00:46,165
and change that? And it's like, what was all that good? And yeah, I think we're going to be

699
01:00:46,165 --> 01:00:54,285
surprised at how much change there is in the decades to come man i mean i think bitcoin is a

700
01:00:54,285 --> 01:01:04,245
good illustration and i'm gonna try and tie it in a bit but it's like it it does prepare people's

701
01:01:04,245 --> 01:01:13,265
hearts for the gospel we we've seen that we have probably a couple dozen examples at least just

702
01:01:13,265 --> 01:01:16,265
from what we've seen and we know there's a lot more.

703
01:01:18,245 --> 01:01:20,925
And it's surprising.

704
01:01:23,245 --> 01:01:28,185
And I think in similar ways,

705
01:01:30,065 --> 01:01:32,385
Os Guinness had this old, this classic book

706
01:01:32,385 --> 01:01:35,325
from the mid-2000s called Prophetic Untimeliness.

707
01:01:36,165 --> 01:01:37,885
And his whole argument is,

708
01:01:38,365 --> 01:01:40,725
if you look just like the culture,

709
01:01:40,725 --> 01:01:43,045
if your message is the same as the culture,

710
01:01:43,265 --> 01:01:48,005
you're no different and so you have nothing to offer you know nothing yep

711
01:01:48,005 --> 01:01:54,305
right I'm a percent and so you need prophetic untimeliness so you need to

712
01:01:54,305 --> 01:02:01,085
know your time and what what people want like the whole itching ears people will

713
01:02:01,085 --> 01:02:06,425
attract for themselves right teachers that match what they want to hear like

714
01:02:06,425 --> 01:02:11,165
that's that's a specific warning in scripture yeah so are the people

715
01:02:11,165 --> 01:02:17,505
listening to you pastor like are they there because you're the one that tickles their ears

716
01:02:17,505 --> 01:02:23,785
is that how you got your crowd is by doing the exact thing that the scripture warns about

717
01:02:23,785 --> 01:02:28,605
yeah um and and so the

718
01:02:28,605 --> 01:02:42,705
yeah so i i would say being untimely and um but still loving people it's the same i think a good

719
01:02:42,705 --> 01:02:48,825
analogy and the internet like there's some discernment bloggers there's some like really

720
01:02:48,825 --> 01:02:55,925
strong opinionated guys in social media that will say it how it is i'm just saying it how it like

721
01:02:55,925 --> 01:03:00,225
and they're just offending everyone and they get their outrage and look at that now they have

722
01:03:00,225 --> 01:03:05,145
it goes viral because of outrage um i think i could bring to mind some

723
01:03:05,145 --> 01:03:12,325
some like possibly racist comment videos that went went viral this last week that like they

724
01:03:12,325 --> 01:03:20,585
got their attention maybe they wanted um but you don't do that with your like unbelieving grandma

725
01:03:20,585 --> 01:03:29,085
yep right you actually sit with her and listen and you pray faithfully and you share the gospel

726
01:03:29,085 --> 01:03:33,805
in a way that is compelling even though you come from a different generation she has a different

727
01:03:33,805 --> 01:03:40,845
perspective you still genuinely want to see her under faith and you don't want to with one

728
01:03:40,845 --> 01:03:46,145
conversation close the door to relationship so that you never get to talk to her again

729
01:03:46,145 --> 01:03:53,145
and so i think we have to have we need to be courageous but also have the long view in mind

730
01:03:53,145 --> 01:03:59,445
and and and think relation like i'm not trying to close doors or close minds

731
01:03:59,445 --> 01:04:03,445
but i am trying to challenge assumptions

732
01:04:03,445 --> 01:04:11,325
there you go there's the balance again there you know what i had you guys like my first two guys a

733
01:04:11,325 --> 01:04:16,225
question. One of the things that I've seen, and I was talking with a brother about this the other

734
01:04:16,225 --> 01:04:27,265
day, I know this could bring a bigger conversation. There are weaknesses that have been in the church

735
01:04:27,265 --> 01:04:34,325
that haven't been addressed from even when us in this podcast were going to church. They haven't

736
01:04:34,325 --> 01:04:40,765
been talked about they haven't been uh admitted that they were things that were wrong i i and i

737
01:04:40,765 --> 01:04:45,845
literally all bring up public school for example how we were all sent to public school and how evil

738
01:04:45,845 --> 01:04:53,865
that was um so it hasn't been addressed yet and we're still going on and we're trying we're trying

739
01:04:53,865 --> 01:04:59,265
to move forward and our generation it's it's interesting you're saying you know i was the

740
01:04:59,265 --> 01:05:03,745
zoomers charlie was saying the zoomer population of believers is increasing you know why our

741
01:05:03,745 --> 01:05:08,525
population of the millennials didn't increase because we were all sent to public school.

742
01:05:08,705 --> 01:05:12,845
And it was a miracle of God that any of us are walking with the Lord today.

743
01:05:13,065 --> 01:05:13,185
Yeah.

744
01:05:13,525 --> 01:05:13,665
Yeah.

745
01:05:13,705 --> 01:05:17,725
And it's like, I'm going to look around, you're just like, I literally have hardly any peers.

746
01:05:17,905 --> 01:05:18,625
They're all gone.

747
01:05:18,765 --> 01:05:19,625
I lost all of them.

748
01:05:20,105 --> 01:05:22,185
And that's actually super sad.

749
01:05:22,265 --> 01:05:25,085
And you're like, wow, that's, and then you're like, yeah, it's no wonder we didn't really

750
01:05:25,085 --> 01:05:29,125
have that big of a, we didn't really transform the church because there was none of us.

751
01:05:29,125 --> 01:05:30,905
And so, but here's the interesting thing.

752
01:05:31,365 --> 01:05:39,585
The younger generation, the next one down, the Zoomers, dude, they see the same things that we did, and there's more of them, and they're just as bold.

753
01:05:39,945 --> 01:05:40,665
And so here's the thing.

754
01:05:40,845 --> 01:05:42,065
They're not going to let it go.

755
01:05:42,345 --> 01:05:45,685
They're going to bring it up, and they're going to be called overzealous.

756
01:05:46,285 --> 01:05:47,825
And guess what?

757
01:05:47,825 --> 01:05:55,445
The Lord is not going to let those things go until they're dealt with, until the rot and the infection is scooped out of the church.

758
01:05:55,445 --> 01:06:11,365
And so my question is, do you guys have a word for some of those young people that the temptation to the older generation is going to be to squelch them and call them immature and call them overzealous and things like that?

759
01:06:12,185 --> 01:06:13,685
Do you guys have any advice for them?

760
01:06:16,365 --> 01:06:19,325
You still must belong to a church.

761
01:06:20,565 --> 01:06:23,045
If you're a Christian and you're a Zoomer.

762
01:06:24,005 --> 01:06:27,705
And the temptation, which just to make a couple call-outs,

763
01:06:27,825 --> 01:06:30,885
like Mark Driscoll's strong words about leave your church

764
01:06:30,885 --> 01:06:32,685
if they didn't talk about Charlie Crankin,

765
01:06:32,825 --> 01:06:34,445
and others saying the same thing,

766
01:06:35,005 --> 01:06:38,885
in my opinion, that's going to have about a 50% total fallout rate.

767
01:06:38,985 --> 01:06:42,305
In other words, people who see that and decide their pastor isn't hardcore

768
01:06:42,305 --> 01:06:44,805
are going to leave their church and look for another church

769
01:06:44,805 --> 01:06:47,505
and discover that there aren't any that are hardcore enough for them

770
01:06:47,505 --> 01:06:49,145
and then not be in a church.

771
01:06:49,145 --> 01:06:56,685
and if you do that you're failing to be a disciple of jesus uh completely and i've told people here

772
01:06:56,685 --> 01:07:00,605
on the islands you know the islands are small in hawaii so there's not that many to choose from

773
01:07:00,605 --> 01:07:05,385
and i've told people here that you need to sell your house sell your car sell your dog

774
01:07:05,385 --> 01:07:10,285
pack up and move to the place where you think there's a good church go to mark driscoll's

775
01:07:10,285 --> 01:07:14,505
church i don't care because you'll find out uh you'll find out how that works out in the end

776
01:07:14,505 --> 01:07:15,225
What's that?

777
01:07:15,665 --> 01:07:17,465
Well, I mean, I care, but yeah, you're sure.

778
01:07:17,805 --> 01:07:22,325
Well, at least if you were to do that, at least, here's my point.

779
01:07:22,485 --> 01:07:30,465
At least if you move to Arizona and join Mark Driscoll's church, you'll have the chance to experience the outcome of that perspective.

780
01:07:30,605 --> 01:07:31,285
Sure, sure, sure.

781
01:07:31,385 --> 01:07:32,565
Grow up a little bit.

782
01:07:32,565 --> 01:07:46,225
And so if I can say, as a practicing current pastor, something that was really touching about one of Vody's last interviews with his protege, I can't recall his name, the Zambi.

783
01:07:46,225 --> 01:07:46,545
Lennox.

784
01:07:47,925 --> 01:07:55,325
One of the touching things was Vody brought up the point, what you see online is not reality.

785
01:07:55,545 --> 01:07:56,885
He didn't say it that way.

786
01:07:56,885 --> 01:08:01,205
But what he said is the average church in America is 75, 50 to 75.

787
01:08:01,685 --> 01:08:01,905
Yep.

788
01:08:02,565 --> 01:08:08,105
Are we talking online about the churches that are 50 to 75 and what they're telling their congregations?

789
01:08:08,225 --> 01:08:08,385
No.

790
01:08:08,525 --> 01:08:08,925
No.

791
01:08:09,325 --> 01:08:17,465
Now, I don't know the math, but I'm assuming if the average is 75, that means the majority of Christians in the United States are in churches like that.

792
01:08:17,465 --> 01:08:21,225
Maybe I'm getting the math wrong, like the median versus the average or something.

793
01:08:21,565 --> 01:08:21,785
Sure, something.

794
01:08:21,985 --> 01:08:29,545
The point is, do you think that maybe a pastor of a church of 50 to 75 knows those 10 families fairly well?

795
01:08:29,545 --> 01:08:46,925
Do you think maybe they know those 10 families? And do you think maybe they know whether they're struggling about theological implications of transgenderism or of COVID or of Charlie Kirk better than the internet does?

796
01:08:46,925 --> 01:08:56,345
so yes the answer is they probably do and uh and um voti makes the point that um he believes that

797
01:08:56,345 --> 01:09:01,385
most of those churches are actually trying to steward their flocks well and preaching the

798
01:09:01,385 --> 01:09:06,945
gospel to the greater or lesser extent of their abilities and and their speaking abilities and

799
01:09:06,945 --> 01:09:12,265
exegetical abilities and pastoral abilities and gifting and i think it's really important to just

800
01:09:12,265 --> 01:09:20,225
realize online is not reality. You need to belong to a church. And the majority is like that, a small

801
01:09:20,225 --> 01:09:25,145
group of people. And last point, I know we're already a little longer than you wanted, but

802
01:09:25,145 --> 01:09:31,465
last point is going back to the angle scale. The original angle scale has more details in it,

803
01:09:31,465 --> 01:09:39,505
which are kind of helpful. But the church's purpose is for the equipping of the church members

804
01:09:39,505 --> 01:09:42,225
to become mature in Christ.

805
01:09:42,865 --> 01:09:45,985
It isn't as, I guess I will do one more call out,

806
01:09:46,085 --> 01:09:47,625
Elevation Church, Stephen Furtick,

807
01:09:47,705 --> 01:09:49,545
I remember one of his famous sermons is like,

808
01:09:49,865 --> 01:09:52,085
if you're a Christian, you got baptized last week,

809
01:09:52,165 --> 01:09:53,985
this week, it's not about you.

810
01:09:55,385 --> 01:09:57,545
Wait a second, wait a second.

811
01:09:57,885 --> 01:09:58,745
What is he saying?

812
01:09:58,825 --> 01:10:01,225
You've now joined the Lord's army and our purpose,

813
01:10:01,365 --> 01:10:04,125
your purpose, this church's purpose is no longer about you.

814
01:10:04,125 --> 01:10:06,325
It's about the ones who came in for the first time now.

815
01:10:06,845 --> 01:10:09,485
Absolutely backwards, absolutely backwards.

816
01:10:09,505 --> 01:10:16,085
that would be like saying I'm joining a martial arts gym I'm joining a jiu-jitsu academy and it's

817
01:10:16,085 --> 01:10:21,725
not about the people who are blue belts and yellow belts and stripe belts and black belts and brown

818
01:10:21,725 --> 01:10:26,005
belts it's not about them anymore it's about the one who walked in the door who's checking it out

819
01:10:26,005 --> 01:10:33,665
for the first time yep absolutely false the church is about growing the saints to be equipped to be

820
01:10:33,665 --> 01:10:38,765
more like Jesus to grow into maturity to have these mature perspectives on all the these issues

821
01:10:38,765 --> 01:10:53,325
And if you do that rightly, and this is a little bit, maybe what I'm about to say is a little strong because you do have to speak in all areas, but if you do the gospel and the implications properly, you're going to have incredible politicians.

822
01:10:53,705 --> 01:10:55,185
You're going to have incredible lawyers.

823
01:10:55,525 --> 01:10:56,765
You're going to have incredible carpenters.

824
01:10:57,745 --> 01:10:58,765
You're going to have incredible janitors.

825
01:10:58,765 --> 01:11:05,165
janitors. You're going to have God-fearing people going out and affecting the circles of influence

826
01:11:05,165 --> 01:11:10,745
in their life in ways that you couldn't control and you couldn't predict and you couldn't really

827
01:11:10,745 --> 01:11:18,285
know and only God knows and sees that. So the church in particular, purpose needs to be growing

828
01:11:18,285 --> 01:11:23,825
the people in your church into maturity. And I think that might be lost in some of the conversation

829
01:11:23,825 --> 01:11:24,525
we're seeing too.

830
01:11:26,745 --> 01:11:27,885
Those are some good words.

831
01:11:28,505 --> 01:11:29,505
Appreciate you guys.

832
01:11:29,665 --> 01:11:31,445
Again, we'll leave it there for this week.

833
01:11:31,505 --> 01:11:32,965
We'll be back next week.

834
01:11:33,025 --> 01:11:34,245
Man, I think we're going to have,

835
01:11:34,765 --> 01:11:35,325
we'll see.

836
01:11:35,425 --> 01:11:36,305
I mean, it looks like we're going to have

837
01:11:36,305 --> 01:11:38,505
Megan Basham on to come talk about

838
01:11:38,505 --> 01:11:39,785
some things that have been going down.

839
01:11:39,865 --> 01:11:40,565
There's a number of things

840
01:11:40,565 --> 01:11:41,465
you want to chat with her about.

841
01:11:42,005 --> 01:11:43,625
We've got some other good ones coming up.

842
01:11:43,725 --> 01:11:44,685
Yeah, John Moody's coming up.

843
01:11:44,825 --> 01:11:46,345
Who's the Prince guy, the Bitcoin guy?

844
01:11:46,405 --> 01:11:47,365
Daniel Prince, that's who it is.

845
01:11:47,425 --> 01:11:48,885
We're going to have him on in the next few weeks.

846
01:11:49,165 --> 01:11:50,845
So again, grateful for you guys.

847
01:11:51,025 --> 01:11:52,425
If you have appreciated this,

848
01:11:52,425 --> 01:11:55,645
If you hated this, go – well, actually, if you hate this, ignore this.

849
01:11:55,745 --> 01:11:56,545
We don't want your reviews.

850
01:11:56,885 --> 01:12:03,165
But if you appreciated this, go like, review, basically subscribe, all the things.

851
01:12:03,305 --> 01:12:06,145
This helps other people find this content.

852
01:12:06,785 --> 01:12:07,765
We are grateful for you guys.

853
01:12:07,805 --> 01:12:13,685
We'll be back on the next episode of – on another episode of To the Unknown Pod, part of the Thank God for Bitcoin podcast.

854
01:12:22,425 --> 01:12:23,905
Bye.