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And welcome to episode 27 of To the Unknown Pod.

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My name is Jordan Bush.

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I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, which exists to help Christians understand

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and use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere.

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Today, I am joined by my favorite mountainous presbytes.

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Jim, Tim, introduce yourselves.

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I'm Tim Fox.

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I'm an ordained Presbyterian minister and executive director of the Magnolia Foundation.

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helping churches to understand and use Bitcoin.

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I'm Jim McAndrew.

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I am a deacon in the same denomination as Tim,

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and I work with him at Magnolia as tech support.

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Great.

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And we are here again for another episode of this podcast,

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which if you're here for the first time,

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basically we spend time on Twitter every week.

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We spend time talking with each other,

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arguing about things in very winsome and good ways,

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but we still have the discussion, the disagreements. And so this is basically a forum where we can air our disagreements,

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sort of, you know, festivus all year long. That's kind of what we do here.

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So we kind of just bring either tweets or just topics for discussion.

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We discuss them and hopefully, yeah, provide a help to people who are also thinking through similar things.

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So basically, guys, this is our first time I think we're starting without a tweet.

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If you look at the title of this episode, we have entitled it The Mission of Bitcoin?

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We were in a group chat with a bunch of other Christian Bitcoin guys, and one of them asked Dan, shout out to Dan, asked about, can we talk about Bitcoin as having a mission?

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Is that legitimate?

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Is that not legitimate?

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And as we were discussing it, we kind of came up with, you know, just realized that this

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is not an isolated conversation because right now on the internet, on Twitter and other

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places for the last four or five months, and even longer than that initially, there's been

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ongoing discussion in the Bitcoin world about op return and spam and all these things and

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how they should or should not have anything to do with Bitcoin and the purpose of Bitcoin,

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why it exists and why it was created. So we thought we would do an episode today primarily

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focused on that. Jim, I'll let you kind of make the case against the idea that Bitcoin

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has a mission. Why would you say it does not have a mission?

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Okay. I would argue that only moral agents can have a mission. Bitcoin is an inanimate object.

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right uh or technology whatever you want to call it so that's the semantic side of the argument

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okay you might just say well okay but didn't satoshi have a vision go read the white paper

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yeah it's electronic peer-to-peer cash so if you're using it against satoshi's vision

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uh or careful with those words careful with those words not satoshi's vision uh if you're using it

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against Satoshi's stated mission for what this thing is,

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isn't just Satoshi's mission the same as Bitcoin's mission?

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I don't know.

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I mean, if somebody discovered fire or invented the wheel

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because they wanted to use the wheel for something

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and then somebody used the wheel for something else,

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does it really matter who invented or discovered it?

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Those are good questions.

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Tim, any thoughts there?

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yeah i mean i think it's uh a bit of a non-sequitur because it's like well yeah it's a thing

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things don't consciously choose or purpose things but uh things do have purposes so it kind of goes

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to how you define mission so if you go with aristotle's four causes you know what the four

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why's why does something exist like well it depends what you mean by why are you asking

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how did it come to exist?

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You know, what made it?

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Are you asking what it's made of?

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Are you asking what it's for?

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Are you asking

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kind of what makes it this thing

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and not another thing?

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So it's like in one sense,

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you know, Bitcoin is a set of code.

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There's a lot of things made of code.

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It's designed to have a certain shape to it.

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But it also,

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so I think the most relevant one

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is the Aristotelian final cause.

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You know, what's the ultimate purpose of it? So like a table, the cause of a table in one sense is like, well, it's made of wood. That's its cause. Its material is wood. But the ultimate formal cause of it, let's say it's a dining table, is to eat with your friends.

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so in that sense yeah bitcoin as money and specifically you know you get a lot of clues

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from the inventor uh he says oh man these banks are doing a lot of funny business uh with the

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housing crash uh it would be great if there was a way we could have money that was so you didn't

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have to trust people in the middle kind of like we used to be able to do with gold so in that sense

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yeah it has a mission or it has a purpose but it just depends on what you mean by mission and then

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of course, ultimately, theologically, you know, all things belong to God and they're from God.

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All human creation is ultimately kind of under God and for him, even though we can abuse it and

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use it. So, you know, the ultimate final cause of everything is to bring glory to God. So in that

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sense, that's Bitcoin's mission, just like it would be with any other invention, is to reflect

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God and to show himself and show his world who he is and what he's like. And some things do that

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better than other things. Yeah. I think where I would, I mean, again, I agree with the caveats

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that you made and like the different senses in which we have to evaluate, you know, the question.

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But again, the question of like, from a theological standpoint, why is there something

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rather than nothing? Like the answer would be, well, because God wants there to be something

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rather than nothing. And God created the world with a purpose. He has a purpose for both,

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you know, in both creating the world and in creating the world the way that he did.

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like there's certain things that he has revealed that he wants the world to look like and he wants

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people to do and carry out in the world and so there's a relationship between purpose and an

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action and like you know existence and action uh and we you know we all recognize that there you

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know something can be used for purposes other than that which uh were you know they were first used

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for, or even they can kind of have little side quests. So like if I wanted to use,

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I'm trying to think, if I wanted to use a screwdriver as a hammer, okay, like I could

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theoretically do that, right? I could get the back of the screwdriver and use that to, you know,

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to knock in a nail. It's like, yeah, I could do that. It wasn't designed for that, but because

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of certain characteristics that it has, it is able to be used for this other, you know, less

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sufficiently and less successfully, but it is possible to use things for reasons other than

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they're made. At the same time, there's other ways in which something's identity can be

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subverted. It can be debased, if you will. So in terms of currency and people, the scriptures

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talk about sinful man is having a debased mind. You know, it's, you know, debased, you know,

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at least in one level is like removing the base, you know, removing the grounding. And so you can,

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you know, whether it's talking about people or, you know, you could talk about this in terms of

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like the mission of a foundation or a school, like you can have mission drift in all of these things.

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And I think you can have mission drift in certain tools as well, depending on what they are.

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Like Bitcoin and software more broadly isn't the same type of tool as a hammer or something along those lines or a saw or something.

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Because there is more of the person put into it.

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There is like there's actual will within the end product or within the tool itself.

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And I think the other reason why I would push back on just the idea of Bitcoin doesn't have a mission or Bitcoin is just code.

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It's like, well, at some level, humans are just code, right?

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We're all just made up of cells, and so we're just code too.

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But it's like that – I don't think that we're more than just code.

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And Bitcoin is more than just code at the end of the day.

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There's people involved and like Bitcoin can't operate without people, you know, or there's bugs.

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There's different kinds of things that require a symbiotic relationship between the code and the people, which is, I think, you know, we could think about a number of different things in that sense.

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But I do, I don't know.

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I mean, the other reason why is we've on, if you want to go subscribe to another podcast that we do, it's Thank God for Nostra.

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We've done a ton.

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And we've read a lot of books about the relationship between technology and humans and technology.

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How should we think about technology?

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And one of the things that we've found in a lot of different books, there's a book called A Web of Our Own Making.

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I can't remember some of the other super famous ones that we've done that we've read.

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We've read some Marshall McLuhan books, Understanding Media.

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and just the reality of like when you create a tool,

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like, well, I guess one example that,

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or one statement or saying that proves this is,

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I think it was Chesterton who said,

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we shape our tools and thereafter our,

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or we shape our buildings

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and then thereafter our buildings shape us.

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And so it's like, okay, yeah,

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you know, like we do create things and they are tools,

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but then, you know, they're crafted to be used by us.

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They're crafted in certain ways,

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to certain priorities, but then they have this, you know, concretizing effect on us. Like they,

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they reinforce certain, you know, reinforce these ideas or at least they can. Um, and so I, yeah,

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I do think it's more complicated than saying, you know, it's just code or, you know, it's,

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I think there is more going on there. Um, but would love to be. Yeah. I want to, I just want

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to push back directly on the spam pro spam people. Yeah. So I think the general argument with the

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pro-spam people is well beauty's in the eye of the beholder and if there's people out there that

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want to use bitcoin as an arbitrary data storage network and not monetary network then they can use

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it how they want to and you can use it how you want to and you do you and relative truth and

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whatever yeah and i think we need to not be afraid to say that there are there's a moral difference

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between some uses versus others.

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And so, yeah, even if a majority of people decide

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that they want to use Bitcoin

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as an arbitrary data storage network,

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it would still be better off for humanity

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if everybody was using it as a monetary network.

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And so that use case,

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even if it's a minority of people

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that want to use it for that,

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is morally better than the other one.

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So might does not make right.

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And just because a majority of people

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think that the other one's better

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doesn't mean that it's true.

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yeah i mean i think this kind of gets back to this idea of like god is the ultimate creator

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and god is the ultimate owner of everything that you can't abstract life away from from him and

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from what he wants and that we're all ultimately dependent on him like paul quotes the bacon prophet

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in act 17 in him we live and move and have our being um and so you know i i wrote something

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recently talking about how we should seek to have good money and good technology, but that's really

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only solving half the problem because good technology can be used badly and bad technology

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can be used well. So, you know, we would say the money we have now is profoundly broken,

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to put it mildly. You can use it well, you know, you can give it charitably, you can be generous

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with it. But on the other hand, Bitcoin is what we think is really good money, great money. That

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can be used very badly. You can worship it. You can hoard it. You can use it to be, spend it on

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your own passions. And so you can't just stop and say, well, look, we have this great technology.

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Isn't that great? And it's like, well, okay, but how are we using it? What is it for? How do we

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honor God with this? Yeah. I mean, I'd also just add one more argument in favor of the anti-spam

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here is if everybody used Bitcoin to store spam, the entire network ceases to have value and it

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falls apart and nobody runs it anymore, including miners. They have no incentive to do so. So

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you just have to ask yourself, if everybody does the thing that I'm doing,

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will it result in better or worse outcomes for everybody else?

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Yeah. And again, I do think there are, it's funny you bring that up. I do think there are,

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we should acknowledge there are limits to the effectiveness of that argument, right? Because

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for instance, I'm just imagining you've got people who work for Facebook, right?

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People who work for Facebook, who they are content, what are they called? Content monitors.

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Moderators.

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Yeah. And so it's like, so it's their job to sift through all of the absolute like cesspool of

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garbage that's on Twitter that people post. And it's their job to like, you know, find the worst

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of it and try to filter as much of it as possible. And so they are consuming awful things all day

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long. It's atrocious. It's horrible. Like there's pornography, abuse, all kinds, murder, like all

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kinds of things. And so like, there is a sense in which, like, there is a sense in which there,

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we do have to have categories for, for moral action where one group of people does something

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so that the rest of us don't have to, right?

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So like, you know, it's like that is what you just articulated.

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Is it effective?

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It is something that it does help us to consider the goodness and the utility and the, you know,

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it is one tool in the tool belt.

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I don't think it's an absolute tool because there are examples like that where, hey, someone

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is, it's a very Christ-like action, actually.

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These people are serving and absorbing this evil into themselves in some real way so that other people don't have to.

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Yeah, I'm just arguing that if everybody uses it as spam, it's not a steady state.

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A hundred percent, yes.

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The only steady state for spam is if most people use it for money, and then they can sort of piggyback along on that value that people are using it for money for.

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Yes.

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And related to this.

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It's an unstable system.

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Correct.

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And related to this, I'm 100% on your team.

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on your team. I just am trying to like prevent, you know, if there's somebody who's, because again,

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you've had like a lot of arguments on the other side over, you know, against moral arguments,

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because we are moral midgets in our age and we're very uncomfortable with, uh, you know,

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not having a grounding or not agreeing with the grounding that necessarily is required in order

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to make moral arguments, you know, cause again, at the end of the day, it's like, well, who are you

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like, who are you to tell me what I can and can't do? Uh, and obviously as Christians and people who,

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you know, recognize that there is objective morality. There is reality that's out there that

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you, you know, you can either ignore or acknowledge, but it's not going to go away just because you

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ignore it. Um, I think all of these, another, this is relevant. Uh, I was, I'm in this, um,

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there's like this, uh, Bitcoin philosophy group, uh, that I, I participate in like once a month.

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Uh, and there's some, some well-known people in the Bitcoin space were in there. So like Troy

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Cross is in there.

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Um, Jesse shoot Posner is in there.

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And there's a few other people, Ella Huff, uh,

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Hodel bod from, uh, the thank God for Nostra podcast.

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So we're in there and we're reading through these different, uh,

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political texts and it's basically like somebody, Jesse, uh,

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it like a political course about Bitcoin And so one of the things that is is talked about is just law and law and exceptions And so we met the other day and we were talking about how with law one of these guys was arguing

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I can't remember who it was, but one of them was arguing, basically, whoever makes the exceptions,

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whoever is able to make exceptions is the one who's in charge. And so we were having this

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conversation about law and about exceptions. And so part of the conversation that comes down

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is just about authorial intent,

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which is kind of what we're talking about, right?

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And so like there is, you know,

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people who create things,

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create them with a certain goal in mind.

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And everyone recognizes this is really important.

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Everyone recognizes that authorial intent

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is super important.

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There's people who are pushing back and saying,

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well, Satoshi wasn't perfect.

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So who are we to, you know, why can't we just,

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who are you to say that Satoshi could ever make a mistake

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in his larger purpose and that we couldn't correct it?

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And we would say, well, no one is saying that there can't be some flaw in there.

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But at the same time, we ought to love our neighbor and not just think about ourselves when it comes to these things.

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Because one place where everyone is an absolutist, an authorial intent absolutist is when it comes to, for example, our own wills.

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Like when we fill out, when we complete our will for what we do with our kids or what we do with our money, we want those things to be taken as literally as possible.

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We want everyone to carry out our desires as if they were the prophets themselves.

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And so I think that what is revealed, the games that are trying to be played with, whether it's the opportun stuff, whether they recognize their games or not, they're playing games and just trying to act like we live in a place where morality isn't absolute.

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and I think that's one area

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where we can kind of just demonstrate

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the folly of that line of argument.

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We've got a question from the chat

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that I want to address.

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Blockchain is asking,

244
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yeah, do you not think Satoshi's quote inscription

245
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was the first direct use of it?

246
00:18:22,296 --> 00:18:24,816
So the quote inscription,

247
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are you talking, Jordan?

248
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You're muted.

249
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Jordan is definitely not Satoshi.

250
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So the whole purpose of that inscription

251
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is to prove that there was no pre-mine,

252
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which is directly related to supporting Bitcoin

253
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as a monetary network,

254
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because if there was a pre-mine,

255
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then it would undermine the value of it

256
00:18:45,676 --> 00:18:46,676
as a monetary network.

257
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So that's not spam at all.

258
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And I would argue that anybody

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that wants to use an inscription

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for data related to a monetary transaction,

261
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like a reference number,

262
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or I'm paying such and such person

263
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that is kind of like you do on the wire transfer,

264
00:19:01,416 --> 00:19:03,556
that's totally valid use

265
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of what the purpose of inscriptions are for.

266
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The second you inscribe something

267
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for the purpose of a non-monetary transaction,

268
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now you're going against the purpose

269
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of what Bitcoin was designed to be.

270
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So it's clear cut.

271
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It's not hard to understand.

272
00:19:19,076 --> 00:19:20,256
Yeah, I agree.

273
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I'm trying to think of,

274
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man, I had a really good illustration

275
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for this exact question a few months ago

276
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when this was all going on.

277
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It's been a while since I was thinking about it.

278
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But I mean, it's one of these things where,

279
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yeah, there's really no problem. We all have, okay, here's an, this is what it was. It had to

280
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do with interruptions. So imagine Jim and I are talking. By virtue of the fact that we're talking

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in public, we're enabling, we're leaving the possibility to be interrupted. And so we're

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leaving the possibility that somebody like Tim or just anybody could come up and interrupt us while

283
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we're talking. Now, why do we do that? Because there are certain things that could happen that

284
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would, that we would want to be interrupted for, right? There could be something that could happen.

285
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You know, there could be an emergency with one of our families. There could be a, you know,

286
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an emergency in the town where we are. And, you know, we would want that information right away.

287
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So we leave open the possibility of interruption because we recognize, hey, you know, there's,

288
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there's a, you know, in, in, there's like things that we couldn't foresee that we might need to,

289
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you know, we might need more communication than we think that, that we need at a given time.

290
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And so it's just acknowledging, I think by virtue of having the ability to add some text in some place, it's just acknowledging, hey, there might be something, you know, might be a situation that would arise where we need to put in something in a limited use case.

291
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but to try to act like that is just giving carte blanche to put in, you know, to fill up the blocks

292
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and to change the, you know, just to use and treat Bitcoin like your own personal, uh, file server

293
00:20:55,036 --> 00:21:00,356
is just, you know, I just don't think that's warranted at all. It's totally obvious. If I

294
00:21:00,356 --> 00:21:04,856
want to accept a bunch of payments, like I go and pay for dinner and then people are paying me back.

295
00:21:05,236 --> 00:21:09,056
Like they need to, they need to put a little inscription on there of like, oh, this is coming

296
00:21:09,056 --> 00:21:14,896
from John and this is coming from, you know, Bob because Bitcoin doesn't store user IDs.

297
00:21:16,896 --> 00:21:21,896
Anyways, the whole, the fact that this is even a debate is just ridiculous.

298
00:21:22,616 --> 00:21:29,856
Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is a whole, it is a whole ball of wax. I do think again, it's, it just,

299
00:21:30,116 --> 00:21:35,936
it demonstrates a weakness in, in our culture where we're just not, we're not comfortable with,

300
00:21:35,936 --> 00:21:41,016
with doing, with making moral arguments. We're not comfortable. We're just things that were,

301
00:21:41,276 --> 00:21:44,496
that would have been looked at as second nature and obvious, like you're, you're articulating,

302
00:21:44,656 --> 00:21:50,076
you know, just aren't as, aren't as obvious anymore. And we could talk about a hundred things

303
00:21:50,076 --> 00:21:55,576
in that regard. And so, yeah. And again, these things do have real consequences. You know, if you,

304
00:21:56,396 --> 00:22:00,436
I mean, like the transgenderism, that's one example. I mean, there's, there's a hundred

305
00:22:00,436 --> 00:22:04,376
things that we could talk about that were super obvious for all of human history until like five

306
00:22:04,376 --> 00:22:08,716
minutes ago. I'm sure there's plenty of idiots that want to go do graffiti on Notre Dame.

307
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Everybody knows it's stupid. So.

308
00:22:14,836 --> 00:22:16,336
Tim, you want to add anything else on that?

309
00:22:18,576 --> 00:22:21,396
No, just I have a bit of an off the wall point.

310
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Those are the best kind. Let's get the purpose of Bitcoin or the purpose of money or the mission

311
00:22:26,916 --> 00:22:31,856
of money or whatever. Jim and I have been going back and looking at the Holzman chapter on from

312
00:22:31,856 --> 00:22:36,956
the ethics of money production on kind of the moral effects of inflation and uh he makes this

313
00:22:36,956 --> 00:22:40,856
point a couple times where he basically says you know the real bummer with inflation is that everyone

314
00:22:40,856 --> 00:22:44,836
has to obsess over money all the time and you have to think about money all the time and kind of the

315
00:22:44,836 --> 00:22:48,496
implied point is that the point of money or at least the point of good money is to kind of be

316
00:22:48,496 --> 00:22:54,356
invisible and to to kind of not matter and i don't know i guess it's kind of like glasses if we're not

317
00:22:54,356 --> 00:22:59,256
talking about fashion it's like you shouldn't notice your glasses they're just there to help

318
00:22:59,256 --> 00:23:05,396
you see better and if you can see your glasses something's wrong they're very dirty um so i don't

319
00:23:05,396 --> 00:23:09,156
know in some ways it's like what's the point of money well the point of money is to kind of be

320
00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:13,796
forgotten uh to go on and live for things that are ultimately more important this is why it's so bad

321
00:23:13,796 --> 00:23:16,956
to make money the most important thing because it's not supposed to be whether you're doing it

322
00:23:16,956 --> 00:23:20,656
consciously or because you're forced to because you have to constantly be thinking about investments

323
00:23:20,656 --> 00:23:27,156
uh the mission of it is to to not matter in a lot of ways all right that i gotta throw this in that

324
00:23:27,156 --> 00:23:33,676
cues up my dr do little quote so let's go homeschool this morning james is reading dr do

325
00:23:33,676 --> 00:23:37,796
little i'm making sure he's reading correctly he's learning how to read dr do little says

326
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money is a nuisance he used to say we'd all be much better off at if it had never been invented

327
00:23:44,716 --> 00:23:50,856
what does money matter so long as we are happy right so dr do little's irritated because he's

328
00:23:50,856 --> 00:23:56,096
got all these animals and he can't afford to feed them and his sister just quit being his housekeeper

329
00:23:56,096 --> 00:23:57,656
and she's going to go get married or whatever.

330
00:23:57,836 --> 00:23:59,676
So now all the animals are like pitching in

331
00:23:59,676 --> 00:24:00,736
and taking care of the house.

332
00:24:01,176 --> 00:24:02,436
And he's just irritated

333
00:24:02,436 --> 00:24:04,336
that he even has to be thinking about money at all

334
00:24:04,336 --> 00:24:07,036
because he's busy about his work, you know?

335
00:24:07,456 --> 00:24:07,596
Yeah.

336
00:24:08,676 --> 00:24:10,096
Yeah, I do think, yeah,

337
00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:14,956
the point of money is to enable loving,

338
00:24:15,516 --> 00:24:20,556
to facilitate loving transactions between neighbors.

339
00:24:20,896 --> 00:24:23,296
Like that's kind of, you can describe it in that way.

340
00:24:23,416 --> 00:24:25,456
It's very similar to language.

341
00:24:26,096 --> 00:24:37,656
And we've seen similar types of, yeah, similar types of inefficient and against the initial reason why language exists with like the pronoun phenomenon.

342
00:24:37,856 --> 00:24:50,556
You know, and like all of these. So basically the pronoun thing is like, hey, I'm going to turn language from something that is designed to facilitate efficient conversation through a society.

343
00:24:50,556 --> 00:24:55,936
I'm now going to turn it and make you be my all of you out there going to be my slaves

344
00:24:55,936 --> 00:25:02,296
you're going to have to communicate with me on my own terms and so it's just completely uh debasing

345
00:25:02,296 --> 00:25:07,976
the the reason that language exists in in large part and so again I think there's there's we're

346
00:25:07,976 --> 00:25:14,576
seeing I think what I hope what this brings out is these all of these same problems just express

347
00:25:14,576 --> 00:25:19,956
themselves in different ways like we're all trying to reconcile with the same reckon with

348
00:25:19,956 --> 00:25:25,456
the same problems and they're going to manifest themselves because that's just how, that's how

349
00:25:25,456 --> 00:25:32,056
beliefs are. You know, the beliefs that we have, we'll find ways to, to get out. Uh, and you know,

350
00:25:32,156 --> 00:25:36,676
we're, we're, yeah, it's, you know, it's going to be costly in terms of time, in terms of effort,

351
00:25:36,676 --> 00:25:44,156
in terms of a whole bunch of things when, you know, when we have to reconcile with, uh, non-true,

352
00:25:44,156 --> 00:25:50,096
beliefs. It's going to be a bummer for us.

353
00:25:52,896 --> 00:26:00,276
Shall we move on? I think we shall. Here we go. Darth Powell, rent payment is reality. Home

354
00:26:00,276 --> 00:26:04,916
payments always mean revert to equivalent rents. So here we go. Let's pull up this

355
00:26:05,976 --> 00:26:08,736
chart fully. Jim, explain to us what we're looking at here.

356
00:26:08,736 --> 00:26:15,756
so there's a graph and it's got two lines on it the red line is the cost to rent i guess this is

357
00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:23,096
for like the median cost rent or something in the united states in the 2006 housing bubble

358
00:26:23,096 --> 00:26:30,296
it was a thousand bucks a month and the mortgage payment was 1500 so like 50 percent higher

359
00:26:30,296 --> 00:26:36,076
and then it crashed down in the 2008 great financial crisis to below the cost of rent

360
00:26:36,076 --> 00:26:43,496
uh so what it go down to around nine eight eight hundred no 750 yeah where the cost of rent was

361
00:26:43,496 --> 00:26:51,556
still 1200 bucks and then it's kind of been slowly gaining back on the cost rent line until

362
00:26:51,556 --> 00:26:56,876
during covid when they printed all the money yeah the cost to buy skyrocketed and now it's sitting

363
00:26:56,876 --> 00:27:03,856
at 26 or almost 2700 a month to buy uh so this is like your mortgage interest principle everything

364
00:27:03,856 --> 00:27:05,296
and the cost of rent.

365
00:27:05,576 --> 00:27:08,496
While it did also go up during COVID,

366
00:27:08,556 --> 00:27:12,116
it went from $1,600 up to about $1,800 a month.

367
00:27:12,536 --> 00:27:17,336
So the cost of buy is almost twice as much

368
00:27:17,336 --> 00:27:19,476
as the cost of rent at this point.

369
00:27:20,216 --> 00:27:23,976
So the question is, how can this be sustainable?

370
00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:26,756
And every other time that it's been like this in the past,

371
00:27:26,756 --> 00:27:28,556
it seems like it's had a drastic correction

372
00:27:28,556 --> 00:27:32,896
in terms of the cost of buying a house.

373
00:27:32,896 --> 00:27:33,756
so

374
00:27:33,756 --> 00:27:37,336
I personally live this

375
00:27:37,336 --> 00:27:38,356
every single day

376
00:27:38,356 --> 00:27:39,816
the cost to buy my place

377
00:27:39,816 --> 00:27:40,596
is twice as much

378
00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:41,456
as the cost to rent

379
00:27:41,456 --> 00:27:42,316
and

380
00:27:42,316 --> 00:27:43,816
I don't

381
00:27:43,816 --> 00:27:45,356
there's not really

382
00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:46,836
much of a relief

383
00:27:46,836 --> 00:27:47,896
I mean even if they lower

384
00:27:47,896 --> 00:27:48,776
the interest rates

385
00:27:48,776 --> 00:27:50,956
that will temporarily

386
00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:53,016
bring the cost to buy

387
00:27:53,016 --> 00:27:53,916
closer to the

388
00:27:53,916 --> 00:27:54,976
cost to rent line

389
00:27:54,976 --> 00:27:56,096
but then

390
00:27:56,096 --> 00:27:57,056
that will cause a bunch

391
00:27:57,056 --> 00:27:57,756
of money printing

392
00:27:57,756 --> 00:27:58,356
to occur

393
00:27:58,356 --> 00:27:59,916
which will then drive

394
00:27:59,916 --> 00:28:01,136
the prices of houses up

395
00:28:01,136 --> 00:28:01,936
which will then make

396
00:28:01,936 --> 00:28:02,696
the cost to buy

397
00:28:02,696 --> 00:28:03,936
go back up.

398
00:28:04,396 --> 00:28:04,476
So,

399
00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:06,056
um,

400
00:28:06,256 --> 00:28:07,356
there's not really

401
00:28:07,356 --> 00:28:08,316
a long-term solution

402
00:28:08,316 --> 00:28:08,876
for this

403
00:28:08,876 --> 00:28:09,656
other than

404
00:28:09,656 --> 00:28:10,876
real estate

405
00:28:10,876 --> 00:28:12,056
being demonetized.

406
00:28:12,876 --> 00:28:13,356
Um,

407
00:28:13,696 --> 00:28:14,236
so,

408
00:28:14,396 --> 00:28:14,516
I,

409
00:28:14,516 --> 00:28:15,016
I don't know.

410
00:28:15,156 --> 00:28:15,776
What's y'all's take?

411
00:28:18,896 --> 00:28:19,356
Yeah,

412
00:28:19,436 --> 00:28:19,816
I am.

413
00:28:19,936 --> 00:28:20,216
Maybe.

414
00:28:21,556 --> 00:28:22,036
Maybe.

415
00:28:22,156 --> 00:28:22,596
Maybe what?

416
00:28:22,596 --> 00:28:23,396
You think there's a different solution?

417
00:28:23,396 --> 00:28:23,696
I go back to like,

418
00:28:24,316 --> 00:28:24,836
I don't know.

419
00:28:25,056 --> 00:28:25,256
I'm,

420
00:28:25,256 --> 00:28:25,656
I'm just,

421
00:28:25,776 --> 00:28:26,856
I've become more and more skeptical

422
00:28:26,856 --> 00:28:27,756
of the,

423
00:28:27,756 --> 00:28:29,036
the charts and the lines

424
00:28:29,036 --> 00:28:29,456
and the,

425
00:28:29,796 --> 00:28:29,876
oh,

426
00:28:29,916 --> 00:28:30,096
look,

427
00:28:30,116 --> 00:28:30,876
this is going to happen.

428
00:28:30,976 --> 00:28:31,336
It's like,

429
00:28:31,436 --> 00:28:31,936
I don't know,

430
00:28:31,956 --> 00:28:32,176
maybe.

431
00:28:32,696 --> 00:28:33,836
It goes back to 1970.

432
00:28:33,976 --> 00:28:34,796
That's not that long ago.

433
00:28:35,136 --> 00:28:35,316
Yeah.

434
00:28:35,556 --> 00:28:38,136
I wasn't arguing that it's going to be demonetized.

435
00:28:38,256 --> 00:28:41,016
I'm just saying the only solution that I can see

436
00:28:41,016 --> 00:28:42,876
is for it to be demonetized.

437
00:28:44,896 --> 00:28:47,436
I'm definitely on team demonetized real estate.

438
00:28:48,636 --> 00:28:51,176
But there's a lot of people understandably who are not.

439
00:28:51,176 --> 00:28:54,556
The rent price represents the utility value.

440
00:28:55,216 --> 00:29:00,396
So I can't really understand how there's any value in the rent

441
00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:01,976
that is other than the utility value.

442
00:29:01,976 --> 00:29:06,816
I mean, is it, is any part of the rent non-utility value for the real estate?

443
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:11,696
I mean, unless you're, yeah.

444
00:29:11,816 --> 00:29:12,696
I mean, I can't think of one.

445
00:29:14,036 --> 00:29:18,216
I mean, if you wanted to rent, I mean, I don't know.

446
00:29:18,256 --> 00:29:19,596
It depends what you mean by utility, I guess.

447
00:29:19,776 --> 00:29:22,176
It's like people rent empty houses all the time.

448
00:29:22,336 --> 00:29:23,056
Well, right.

449
00:29:23,176 --> 00:29:26,016
So the question is like, why do you rent real estate?

450
00:29:26,076 --> 00:29:30,176
You rent it to be in a certain area and to have a roof over your head and to use it.

451
00:29:30,476 --> 00:29:30,796
Right.

452
00:29:30,796 --> 00:29:31,276
Yeah.

453
00:29:31,976 --> 00:29:35,276
You're not going to rent a house as like a, you know, investment or something.

454
00:29:36,016 --> 00:29:56,756
Well, even if you were going to rent a house and let it sit empty, presumably you're renting it for some reason because you want to like claim residency there and get some sort of tax write off or you're going to use it for two weeks out of the year during Christmas and you want to go skiing and you just don't care if you throw the, I mean, there's some utility that you're getting use out of it.

455
00:29:56,756 --> 00:30:02,956
you're not paying rent to take advantage of the appreciation and the price.

456
00:30:03,256 --> 00:30:03,516
Yeah.

457
00:30:04,776 --> 00:30:09,936
Which is what the monetary premium is and the cost to buy.

458
00:30:10,056 --> 00:30:11,096
So I don't know.

459
00:30:11,176 --> 00:30:13,776
I guess I just feel like we've got a pretty clear indicator

460
00:30:13,776 --> 00:30:19,476
unlike most other aspects of the economy or most other assets or commodities.

461
00:30:19,816 --> 00:30:24,096
Like we've got a pretty clear indicator of like what the actual utility value is

462
00:30:24,096 --> 00:30:26,616
versus what the additional monetary premium is.

463
00:30:26,756 --> 00:30:43,836
Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting to think about. I mean, it's one thing to say, to think about, again, with Bitcoin in this context of because there's people who are like, oh, Bitcoin is going to reap the benefit of the demonetization of real estate.

464
00:30:43,836 --> 00:30:50,376
it's another thing to think about the possibility that Bitcoin could cause, you know, it could,

465
00:30:50,436 --> 00:30:56,116
could be the cause. I wouldn't say the whole causal course, but like a causal force for some

466
00:30:56,116 --> 00:31:02,036
of this. I mean, you've already seen guys like, um, Grant Cardone and some of these other real

467
00:31:02,036 --> 00:31:07,456
estate people. Uh, I can't remember who else I've seen other names, but they're starting to like

468
00:31:07,456 --> 00:31:13,816
publicly, you know, sell off real estate or take out. I think it's been like, um, like take out

469
00:31:13,816 --> 00:31:19,476
equity, like take out equity from your properties or whatever, and then buy Bitcoin with that.

470
00:31:20,436 --> 00:31:25,556
So yeah, it's, it is interesting. Like what, what effect would that have at scale, Jim?

471
00:31:28,596 --> 00:31:34,716
Yeah. I mean, obviously it's, if you're selling real estate's downward pressure, I don't,

472
00:31:34,736 --> 00:31:38,616
I'm not even necessarily arguing the blue line. So the blue line is the cost to buy in this graph,

473
00:31:38,696 --> 00:31:43,196
if you're just listening, but I'm not arguing that the blue line is ever even going to go back

474
00:31:43,196 --> 00:31:50,096
below the red line and if you look at all the way back on this chart i mean it only goes back to 1970

475
00:31:50,096 --> 00:31:57,216
but the blue line is above the red line from like 1978 until the great financial crisis so yeah you're

476
00:31:57,216 --> 00:32:07,196
talking like 40 years yeah of it costs more to buy than to rent um and so like i'm not calling

477
00:32:07,196 --> 00:32:08,216
for some big crash.

478
00:32:08,416 --> 00:32:09,876
I'm just pointing out that,

479
00:32:09,896 --> 00:32:10,876
you know,

480
00:32:10,996 --> 00:32:12,276
especially as Bitcoiners,

481
00:32:12,436 --> 00:32:14,456
it's really, really, really hard

482
00:32:14,456 --> 00:32:15,396
to get motivated

483
00:32:15,396 --> 00:32:16,556
to want to buy real estate.

484
00:32:16,976 --> 00:32:17,096
Yeah.

485
00:32:18,196 --> 00:32:18,676
Yeah.

486
00:32:18,816 --> 00:32:20,016
I mean, it is interesting

487
00:32:20,016 --> 00:32:21,636
to think about how

488
00:32:21,636 --> 00:32:24,356
as things get closer

489
00:32:24,356 --> 00:32:25,496
and as currencies get closer

490
00:32:25,496 --> 00:32:26,036
to collapsing,

491
00:32:26,616 --> 00:32:28,196
these things speed up.

492
00:32:28,916 --> 00:32:30,096
So you've got,

493
00:32:30,256 --> 00:32:30,416
you know,

494
00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:32,596
what's the double top here?

495
00:32:33,256 --> 00:32:44,173
I guess it did kind of technically there So it like what is that And in 90 there was like a double top Then 90 to 2006 how many years is that

496
00:32:45,833 --> 00:32:46,753
You know, 16.

497
00:32:47,513 --> 00:32:48,793
And then you're looking at,

498
00:32:49,433 --> 00:32:51,293
I mean, we're at like a double top.

499
00:32:51,453 --> 00:32:52,873
I guess that was like 2020,

500
00:32:54,293 --> 00:32:56,133
you know, 2022 or something.

501
00:32:56,253 --> 00:32:56,673
What was that?

502
00:32:57,933 --> 00:33:00,173
I'm going to actually defend the boomers here for a second.

503
00:33:00,433 --> 00:33:00,753
Okay.

504
00:33:01,553 --> 00:33:04,013
So there's all this whining about millennials

505
00:33:04,013 --> 00:33:05,713
not being able to afford to buy a house.

506
00:33:06,433 --> 00:33:09,493
Well, I got married in 2006.

507
00:33:09,973 --> 00:33:11,913
Granted, it was on the younger side for a millennial.

508
00:33:12,473 --> 00:33:14,293
I was like 22 years old.

509
00:33:15,513 --> 00:33:17,653
Well, according to this chart,

510
00:33:17,893 --> 00:33:19,313
right after I got married,

511
00:33:19,793 --> 00:33:21,153
everything crashed.

512
00:33:21,813 --> 00:33:25,473
And then there was like a 10-year period

513
00:33:25,473 --> 00:33:28,333
where it was actually cheaper to buy than to rent.

514
00:33:29,352 --> 00:33:33,233
So it's like my prime house buying years

515
00:33:33,233 --> 00:33:35,013
as a millennial just after I got married.

516
00:33:35,193 --> 00:33:36,593
I'm like 22 to 32.

517
00:33:37,633 --> 00:33:38,773
What excuse do I have?

518
00:33:39,092 --> 00:33:40,592
It was cheaper to buy than to rent.

519
00:33:40,673 --> 00:33:42,112
So that was great, actually.

520
00:33:42,293 --> 00:33:44,213
In fact, it was better than the previous 40 years

521
00:33:44,213 --> 00:33:45,973
according to this graph, right?

522
00:33:46,852 --> 00:33:49,493
So why are all the millennials whining?

523
00:33:50,092 --> 00:33:52,213
Well, some of us millennials were missionaries overseas.

524
00:33:52,213 --> 00:33:56,193
So I'm not trying to pull the missionary sympathy card.

525
00:33:56,513 --> 00:33:58,453
Okay, granted, I was an elder millennial.

526
00:33:58,612 --> 00:34:00,153
So maybe like some of the younger millennials

527
00:34:00,153 --> 00:34:02,213
got in and they're in the tail end or whatever.

528
00:34:02,213 --> 00:34:04,993
but like there was still a 10 year period that it's like, come on guys.

529
00:34:07,573 --> 00:34:09,593
Millennials are getting married later.

530
00:34:09,873 --> 00:34:11,593
They're being adolescents for longer.

531
00:34:11,933 --> 00:34:13,253
They're not buying houses.

532
00:34:13,473 --> 00:34:15,832
So it's like, yeah, if you'd been on your game

533
00:34:15,832 --> 00:34:19,473
and not been a crazy missionary like Jordan and you've gotten married,

534
00:34:19,893 --> 00:34:20,893
you had your chance.

535
00:34:21,073 --> 00:34:22,013
So stop crying.

536
00:34:22,993 --> 00:34:25,473
I think, I mean, this, it brings to mind,

537
00:34:25,513 --> 00:34:27,133
I was listening to somebody the other day.

538
00:34:27,313 --> 00:34:28,473
I can't remember who this was.

539
00:34:28,473 --> 00:34:36,793
they were talking about the fact that there is real antipathy between Gen Z and millennials.

540
00:34:38,013 --> 00:34:42,093
Well, right. Because look at this. If you had bought while the blue line was lower,

541
00:34:42,393 --> 00:34:47,453
then look what the blue line does. You're like rich. Millennials got rich off their houses,

542
00:34:47,593 --> 00:34:51,013
basically, whereas Gen Z has no hope at all because they've spent their entire life

543
00:34:51,013 --> 00:34:55,573
blue line above and COVID. Some of it was that. Obviously, some of it's that. Some of it was like

544
00:34:55,573 --> 00:35:00,473
somebody pointed out like, well, Gen Z, every generation hates their parents. So like, you know,

545
00:35:00,513 --> 00:35:05,033
like that again, that's obviously an exaggeration, but, um, but yeah, I mean, it really is.

546
00:35:05,033 --> 00:35:10,433
Gen Z's parents are Gen X, right? Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Gen X or boomers. Yeah. But like,

547
00:35:10,893 --> 00:35:13,813
yeah, it is one of these things you're just like looking at this. You're like, yeah, I,

548
00:35:14,533 --> 00:35:19,153
yeah. I mean, you did have, you did have a great opportunity. Now, again, not for a lot of people

549
00:35:19,153 --> 00:35:23,733
who are, you know, more millennials, my age, you know, maybe you're, you're getting a job,

550
00:35:23,733 --> 00:35:28,113
you get married, you know, you're, you're just kind of coming into where you can afford a,

551
00:35:28,113 --> 00:35:32,633
you know, afford a house. And, you know, so maybe there could be some room there for,

552
00:35:32,852 --> 00:35:36,953
you know, people, but it's just, I mean, even. Yeah. I don't know.

553
00:35:36,953 --> 00:35:40,713
They missed the opportunity. They were farting around. They were taking gap years and they

554
00:35:40,713 --> 00:35:43,052
weren't getting married and they were swiping right on Tinder.

555
00:35:43,673 --> 00:35:46,813
Jim is coming hard at the millennials. I did not foresee this coming.

556
00:35:47,033 --> 00:35:48,893
I'm pointing at you millennial.

557
00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:50,393
there's our

558
00:35:50,393 --> 00:35:50,873
there's our

559
00:35:50,873 --> 00:35:51,793
our thumbnail

560
00:35:51,793 --> 00:35:52,533
for this episode

561
00:35:52,533 --> 00:35:53,153
Jim just

562
00:35:53,153 --> 00:35:54,673
big big finger pointed

563
00:35:54,673 --> 00:35:56,052
let's

564
00:35:56,052 --> 00:35:56,973
I can say that

565
00:35:56,973 --> 00:35:58,253
because I'm a millennial

566
00:35:58,253 --> 00:36:01,213
let's see here

567
00:36:01,213 --> 00:36:01,733
let's look at the

568
00:36:01,733 --> 00:36:01,973
Kobe

569
00:36:01,973 --> 00:36:02,713
Kobe EC

570
00:36:02,713 --> 00:36:03,352
we need to figure out

571
00:36:03,352 --> 00:36:03,693
how to pronounce

572
00:36:03,693 --> 00:36:04,313
this guy's name

573
00:36:04,313 --> 00:36:05,913
hopefully we will

574
00:36:05,913 --> 00:36:06,473
at some point

575
00:36:06,473 --> 00:36:07,993
but it is not this day

576
00:36:07,993 --> 00:36:09,433
the Kobe EC letter

577
00:36:09,433 --> 00:36:11,433
piggybacking off of this

578
00:36:11,433 --> 00:36:12,233
price cuts are likely

579
00:36:12,233 --> 00:36:13,253
coming to the housing market

580
00:36:13,253 --> 00:36:15,013
excuse me

581
00:36:15,013 --> 00:36:15,753
the number of new

582
00:36:15,753 --> 00:36:16,513
single family homes

583
00:36:16,513 --> 00:36:17,173
for sale jumped

584
00:36:17,173 --> 00:36:18,433
to 511,000

585
00:36:18,433 --> 00:36:24,473
in June, the highest since October 2007. Since the 2020 low, the number of new homes on the market

586
00:36:24,473 --> 00:36:34,253
has risen by 230,000 or 82%, excluding the 2006 financial bubble, which peaked at 572,000.

587
00:36:34,253 --> 00:36:39,133
We're not far away. This is the largest supply of new homes in history. Meanwhile, new single

588
00:36:39,133 --> 00:36:46,273
family homes in the South have risen to a record 312,000. This is far above the 291,000 seen in

589
00:36:46,273 --> 00:36:51,373
2006, just a year before the housing market crash began with supply near record highs. Price

590
00:36:51,373 --> 00:36:59,013
cuts seem unavoidable. Here is our, a bigger view of this chart. So yeah, 511,000 here,

591
00:36:59,393 --> 00:37:05,313
second only to the great financial crisis. So Jim, tell us what's going on here.

592
00:37:05,313 --> 00:37:11,373
I love the hopium of price cuts, but I don't know. Preston Piss just gave a take on Natalie

593
00:37:11,373 --> 00:37:15,773
Brunel a couple of days ago. That's just like house prices are going to rip. They're going to

594
00:37:15,773 --> 00:37:21,552
lower the rates and they're going to rip. And so as much as I want real estate to be demonetized,

595
00:37:21,793 --> 00:37:27,153
and I'm sure when you price the real estate in Bitcoin, it's going to zero, but most people

596
00:37:27,153 --> 00:37:32,653
don't price real estate in Bitcoin. So they're going to rip and it's just, it's painful. It's

597
00:37:32,653 --> 00:37:38,832
painful to watch. What's the, what's the mechanism for, for just for people who are, I have my own

598
00:37:38,832 --> 00:37:42,173
ideas, but people who are listening who maybe aren't as keyed in, what is the, what is the

599
00:37:42,173 --> 00:37:50,073
mechanism for the housing market ripping lower interest rates period that's it like all the only

600
00:37:50,073 --> 00:37:54,733
thing people care about is the monthlies so as long as i can afford the monthlies i'll pay you

601
00:37:54,733 --> 00:38:01,373
whatever you want because my wife wants a house wow the that speaking to get hitting close to home

602
00:38:01,373 --> 00:38:13,633
there too i mean theoretically one's wife wants a house um yeah it it is just rough yeah i do

603
00:38:13,633 --> 00:38:17,493
i'm like thinking about this i'm like yeah the man it would be the monthlies would be nice so

604
00:38:17,493 --> 00:38:22,753
i mean what's the what's the largest mortgage right now it's like 40 what what's the longest

605
00:38:22,753 --> 00:38:29,533
mortgage right now 40 year mortgage yeah yeah 30 i guess probably and most most of them are 30 30

606
00:38:29,533 --> 00:38:33,193
I feel like I've heard discussion of 40

607
00:38:33,193 --> 00:38:36,753
if they're not already in existence.

608
00:38:38,552 --> 00:38:39,773
Yeah, gosh, man.

609
00:38:39,832 --> 00:38:40,852
That is just wild.

610
00:38:41,493 --> 00:38:44,413
Do you go short Bitcoin, long real estate?

611
00:38:44,573 --> 00:38:44,973
What do you do?

612
00:38:45,573 --> 00:38:46,433
Borrow against your Bitcoin?

613
00:38:48,173 --> 00:38:48,653
I don't know.

614
00:38:49,352 --> 00:38:49,933
He doesn't hear.

615
00:38:50,332 --> 00:38:51,733
Well, no free ads,

616
00:38:51,933 --> 00:38:54,133
but I'll show you one option.

617
00:38:54,493 --> 00:38:56,073
I had a conversation and a call

618
00:38:56,073 --> 00:38:58,473
with Joe Consorti the other day.

619
00:38:59,533 --> 00:39:00,773
Let's see, where is it here?

620
00:39:00,993 --> 00:39:01,373
Oh, yeah.

621
00:39:01,653 --> 00:39:01,993
There we go.

622
00:39:02,093 --> 00:39:04,073
Joe Consorti, friend of the program.

623
00:39:04,213 --> 00:39:04,993
Need to get him on here.

624
00:39:05,533 --> 00:39:08,473
He basically works for this company called Horizon

625
00:39:08,473 --> 00:39:11,753
that basically allows you to transform your home equity into Bitcoin.

626
00:39:12,453 --> 00:39:13,893
Just basically do this.

627
00:39:14,233 --> 00:39:15,313
It's really interesting.

628
00:39:15,613 --> 00:39:18,513
There's no monthly payments you pay at the very end of the term,

629
00:39:18,513 --> 00:39:20,933
which I think is like 10 years or something like that.

630
00:39:22,133 --> 00:39:23,073
Go check that out.

631
00:39:23,153 --> 00:39:24,313
Look into it more.

632
00:39:24,613 --> 00:39:27,352
But, yeah, I do feel like there's different answers here.

633
00:39:27,352 --> 00:39:32,493
If you're a Bitcoiner, this is going to have one set of potential answers.

634
00:39:32,753 --> 00:39:39,113
If you're just a normal or a non-Bitcoiner, then yeah, it's a lot more bleak.

635
00:39:41,513 --> 00:39:43,453
But yeah, I mean, it is just bonkers to think about.

636
00:39:43,493 --> 00:39:45,852
You think about how much the world has changed in 40 years.

637
00:39:46,153 --> 00:39:52,052
If this is going to become a thing to try to cope with runaway real estate prices,

638
00:39:52,173 --> 00:39:55,753
if we're going to move to 40-year mortgages as the norm.

639
00:39:55,753 --> 00:40:04,753
like what what was going on 40 years ago jim um yeah i was actually just thinking about this i was

640
00:40:04,753 --> 00:40:12,813
talking with ashley the other day and i was like trying to figure out how much of my bitcoin would

641
00:40:12,813 --> 00:40:16,633
i want to part with for a house and like when would i want to do it because it's like every

642
00:40:16,633 --> 00:40:21,273
year that goes by it gets cheaper and cheaper priced in bitcoin right yeah and then also the

643
00:40:21,273 --> 00:40:26,253
idea that Jimmy like brought up at the TGFB conference a couple of years ago where it's like

644
00:40:26,253 --> 00:40:32,953
borrowing money is you're contributing to the inflation. Right. Yep. Um, and it's like

645
00:40:32,953 --> 00:40:39,893
at some level it's, I think it is like a good goal to eventually be able to just

646
00:40:39,893 --> 00:40:45,093
pay cash for your house, even if it's Bitcoin. Right. Yep. Um,

647
00:40:45,093 --> 00:40:52,133
but i don't know for some reason when it's like if it's like 30 percent of your bitcoin or 70

648
00:40:52,133 --> 00:40:57,693
percent of your bitcoin it feels like really hard to like pay pay cash in bitcoin for the house

649
00:40:57,693 --> 00:41:02,453
versus like yeah you know if it's like one or two percent of your bitcoin you could just pay cash

650
00:41:02,453 --> 00:41:07,653
for the house like that feels feels okay i don't know it is you think that's like equivocating do

651
00:41:07,653 --> 00:41:11,133
you think there's any difference do you think you should always just pay cash for your house if you

652
00:41:11,133 --> 00:41:16,313
can afford it, like just liquidate as much Bitcoin as you possibly could and not take a loan.

653
00:41:16,713 --> 00:41:22,653
This is the Bitcoin equivalent of the infamous line from St. Augustine,

654
00:41:22,773 --> 00:41:29,213
oh Lord, make me chaste, but not yet. Oh Lord, please remove fiat currency,

655
00:41:29,493 --> 00:41:37,173
remove monetary debasement, but not yet. Yeah, I do. It is so hard. I can only speak to,

656
00:41:37,173 --> 00:41:42,233
this is, I've said this before on the podcast. It's just like one of these things where I just

657
00:41:42,233 --> 00:41:48,153
don't want to do it. It's like, can I, can I make an argument for, yes, you know, we are all men of

658
00:41:48,153 --> 00:41:52,893
unclean lips. We live among people of unclean lips. This is really the only way to do this,

659
00:41:52,973 --> 00:41:58,393
but I just really don't want to. You don't want to pay cash for a house?

660
00:41:58,653 --> 00:42:03,593
No, no, the opposite. I really, like, I have no problem. I mean, just people who have,

661
00:42:03,593 --> 00:42:07,332
through ignorance of these things or whatever, or just like, again, looking at bigger picture

662
00:42:07,332 --> 00:42:11,633
realities, like, Hey, I want to, you know, do these things, be able to do these things.

663
00:42:11,633 --> 00:42:14,953
And so they're like, all right, listen, I'm going to take out a, take out a mortgage.

664
00:42:15,133 --> 00:42:15,352
Yes.

665
00:42:15,352 --> 00:42:17,173
It's technically debasing everyone.

666
00:42:17,352 --> 00:42:17,553
Yes.

667
00:42:17,553 --> 00:42:18,352
That's not good.

668
00:42:18,693 --> 00:42:22,073
You know, but it's, it's like, so the people who've made that decision, I think they're,

669
00:42:22,193 --> 00:42:26,193
I think it's deficient at the same time, like morally deficient.

670
00:42:26,193 --> 00:42:30,573
And yet at the same time, it's like, like how much can you really just fight against

671
00:42:30,573 --> 00:42:31,053
these things?

672
00:42:31,053 --> 00:42:36,733
I go back and forth. And yet at the end of the day, the reason I haven't done it to this point

673
00:42:36,733 --> 00:42:42,473
is I'm like, I just don't want to, I just don't want to, you know, expand the monetary supply

674
00:42:42,473 --> 00:42:46,733
and do this. And so it's like, all right, then the pragmatic side of me is like, okay,

675
00:42:46,813 --> 00:42:53,373
so what am I doing? Well, I'm, I'm renting. And at least for now paying less to rent than I am,

676
00:42:53,493 --> 00:42:58,113
you know, than I would be to buy. Uh, and so I'm just taking that money and I'm keeping it in

677
00:42:58,113 --> 00:43:04,893
Bitcoin. And so I'm like kind of trying to, trying to, you know, benefit from that as well as I can.

678
00:43:04,893 --> 00:43:09,093
Like that's, but yeah. When you, when you buy a house, you're going to do it with cash.

679
00:43:10,613 --> 00:43:14,493
I have not made this decision yet. I'm just telling you where I'm at right now.

680
00:43:15,013 --> 00:43:20,113
But yeah, it really is. It, you're, what you're laying out is the, it's the immorality of the

681
00:43:20,113 --> 00:43:24,933
system. Like it really is. I mean, like it's this, just think about it. It's entirely feasible

682
00:43:24,933 --> 00:43:28,613
that they'll, you know,

683
00:43:28,673 --> 00:43:31,393
Trump will get his yes man in the Fed.

684
00:43:32,413 --> 00:43:33,433
He'll get rid of Powell.

685
00:43:33,613 --> 00:43:34,933
He'll get somebody in there who will drop it.

686
00:43:35,013 --> 00:43:36,513
I don't, do you actually think it's possible

687
00:43:36,513 --> 00:43:38,553
for him to drop it down to 1% like he's talking?

688
00:43:38,773 --> 00:43:39,352
Is that even?

689
00:43:40,073 --> 00:43:41,713
I think it's totally on the table.

690
00:43:42,673 --> 00:43:42,893
Yeah.

691
00:43:43,133 --> 00:43:43,832
I mean, and then,

692
00:43:43,953 --> 00:43:45,413
but then they're just going to get crazy inflation

693
00:43:45,413 --> 00:43:47,093
and then is the plan like,

694
00:43:47,832 --> 00:43:49,773
I mean, at least he won't be around for it.

695
00:43:50,332 --> 00:43:51,293
Or like, what is the?

696
00:43:51,533 --> 00:43:53,073
They want to pump asset prices.

697
00:43:53,252 --> 00:43:54,493
Trump owns a lot of assets.

698
00:43:54,693 --> 00:43:54,873
Yeah.

699
00:43:54,933 --> 00:44:01,533
So, yeah, it's totally conceivable that we could get runaway, you know, double home prices again.

700
00:44:01,613 --> 00:44:03,493
And then I'm, you know, then I really am screwed.

701
00:44:03,613 --> 00:44:05,653
Like I'm set back from being able to buy.

702
00:44:06,073 --> 00:44:07,633
Except that your Bitcoin's 10x.

703
00:44:08,373 --> 00:44:14,433
Sure, but it's like, it's, I mean, it's 10xing over what time period?

704
00:44:15,153 --> 00:44:17,832
The same time period as real estate going 2x.

705
00:44:19,213 --> 00:44:20,073
Yeah, okay.

706
00:44:20,313 --> 00:44:22,773
So the real estate became five times cheaper for you.

707
00:44:23,093 --> 00:44:23,693
Yeah, exactly.

708
00:44:23,693 --> 00:44:26,033
So again, so that's the godliness.

709
00:44:26,233 --> 00:44:28,413
But you still have to give up your Bitcoin at the end of the day.

710
00:44:28,493 --> 00:44:35,453
That's the godliness with contentment is great gain side of things where, again, I do think, I am grateful for Bitcoin.

711
00:44:35,553 --> 00:44:49,252
One of the reasons why I'm grateful for Bitcoin is because it does, or at least to this point, it has allowed you to not have to play the devil's game and still win at the end.

712
00:44:49,252 --> 00:44:52,533
I don't think that's the reason why we do it

713
00:44:52,533 --> 00:44:54,453
but I'm just grateful for something that does

714
00:44:54,453 --> 00:44:56,573
at least at this point it has enabled

715
00:44:56,573 --> 00:44:56,893
that

716
00:44:56,893 --> 00:44:59,613
alright should we

717
00:44:59,613 --> 00:45:01,332
move on to Tim's

718
00:45:01,332 --> 00:45:02,693
did you have one Tim

719
00:45:02,693 --> 00:45:05,873
okay so this is me

720
00:45:05,873 --> 00:45:07,693
like everybody else

721
00:45:07,693 --> 00:45:10,213
just going off of something I found on Twitter

722
00:45:10,213 --> 00:45:12,233
could be completely AI generated

723
00:45:12,233 --> 00:45:12,832
for all I know

724
00:45:12,832 --> 00:45:15,573
but it looks real so I'm going to go with it

725
00:45:15,573 --> 00:45:18,313
apparently this is from a catalog

726
00:45:18,313 --> 00:45:21,233
kind of like what Sears catalogs used to be,

727
00:45:21,593 --> 00:45:22,873
where you could, you know,

728
00:45:22,913 --> 00:45:24,373
people used to be able to like order a house

729
00:45:24,373 --> 00:45:27,173
and you pay in a catalog, in a Sears catalog.

730
00:45:27,332 --> 00:45:28,832
A lot of these craftsman homes around America

731
00:45:28,832 --> 00:45:31,773
were these, you know, house by mail things

732
00:45:31,773 --> 00:45:33,252
where you get the kit and you build your house

733
00:45:33,252 --> 00:45:34,213
and they're relatively simple.

734
00:45:34,713 --> 00:45:35,893
Apparently they used to have the same kind of thing

735
00:45:35,893 --> 00:45:36,633
for building a church.

736
00:45:37,373 --> 00:45:40,073
And this is from 1882.

737
00:45:40,473 --> 00:45:41,913
If you turn to the next page,

738
00:45:42,752 --> 00:45:44,193
it's a bunch of church plans.

739
00:45:45,013 --> 00:45:46,332
Here's a church you can have.

740
00:45:46,332 --> 00:45:51,193
I mean, it's probably not the nicest building in the world, but it seats like 200 people.

741
00:45:52,013 --> 00:45:57,693
And in 1882, the cost is between $6,000 and $10,000 to build this church building to seat 200 people.

742
00:45:58,553 --> 00:46:06,053
When I was pastoring a church in Austin, we bought a building and then we did a building campaign to renovate it because it was in terrible shape.

743
00:46:06,473 --> 00:46:11,033
And we were trying to do very minor, very minor renovations to it.

744
00:46:11,033 --> 00:46:17,013
And it was just absurdly expensive and getting more and more and more expensive just to do pretty small things.

745
00:46:17,733 --> 00:46:22,173
So it's just, I mean, just again, one of these things bemoaning kind of inflation and real estate.

746
00:46:22,433 --> 00:46:28,332
And granted, in 1882, things were not nearly as heavily regulated as they are today for good and for bad.

747
00:46:29,013 --> 00:46:31,473
There are no ADA ramps in this church building.

748
00:46:31,713 --> 00:46:34,673
There's no fancy smoke machines.

749
00:46:34,953 --> 00:46:36,013
There's no cry room.

750
00:46:36,113 --> 00:46:36,993
There's no youth room.

751
00:46:37,393 --> 00:46:39,113
This is very bare bones.

752
00:46:39,113 --> 00:46:43,973
but as you can see it's a nice simple beautiful church building that seats a couple hundred people

753
00:46:43,973 --> 00:46:49,733
i ran it through an inflation calculator online i said hey uh eight thousand dollars in 1882 what

754
00:46:49,733 --> 00:46:56,913
is that worth today comes out to about 250 000 i mean if you could build a church building today

755
00:46:56,913 --> 00:47:02,233
for 250 000 to seat 200 people that looks like that it doesn't look like a dumpy warehouse

756
00:47:02,233 --> 00:47:08,793
it's like that's amazing what what year is it jim or what year is it tim 1882 okay 18

757
00:47:09,113 --> 00:47:10,113
1882.

758
00:47:12,053 --> 00:47:24,873
So I don't know, just one of these kind of little things about how much has changed, you know, under the monetary system we're under and how much this affects churches and ministries, how hard it is to build things and even simple but beautiful things.

759
00:47:26,633 --> 00:47:33,093
Yeah, I'm trying to, I wanted to look up what was the price of gold in 1882.

760
00:47:33,213 --> 00:47:34,193
It was just a dollar, right?

761
00:47:34,273 --> 00:47:37,033
It was like an ounce of gold was a dollar, correct?

762
00:47:38,153 --> 00:47:38,752
Well, I don't know.

763
00:47:38,752 --> 00:47:40,673
there was the official price and there was the market.

764
00:47:41,332 --> 00:47:42,553
But let's say if it's, I mean,

765
00:47:42,593 --> 00:47:43,993
so then you're talking about how much,

766
00:47:44,373 --> 00:47:47,373
so you're talking effectively six to 10,000 ounces of gold.

767
00:47:50,693 --> 00:47:51,733
That's unreal.

768
00:47:51,813 --> 00:47:54,373
Well, no, an ounce of gold would have been $20.

769
00:47:54,933 --> 00:47:55,413
Oh, you're right.

770
00:47:55,453 --> 00:47:55,733
I'm sorry.

771
00:47:55,793 --> 00:47:56,113
You're right.

772
00:47:56,193 --> 00:47:56,413
You're right.

773
00:47:56,493 --> 00:47:56,633
You're right.

774
00:47:56,633 --> 00:47:56,713
You're right.

775
00:47:56,752 --> 00:47:57,293
Ounce of gold, $20.

776
00:47:57,713 --> 00:47:58,093
You're right.

777
00:47:59,653 --> 00:48:01,693
But still, I mean, you just do the math on that.

778
00:48:02,513 --> 00:48:04,173
I bet you that, I mean, that gets crazy quick too.

779
00:48:04,252 --> 00:48:07,033
This is the comment below, Tim.

780
00:48:07,352 --> 00:48:08,252
You've seen this here.

781
00:48:08,373 --> 00:48:08,693
Hold on, sorry.

782
00:48:08,752 --> 00:48:10,073
I just realized I'm not sharing it.

783
00:48:10,513 --> 00:48:12,252
There's the same guy who wrote the tweet.

784
00:48:13,133 --> 00:48:13,993
Put this below.

785
00:48:14,332 --> 00:48:18,053
This also makes me wonder if a lot of smaller churches out West and in the Rust Belt look the way they do,

786
00:48:18,173 --> 00:48:20,373
not so much because of intentional decisions to look Gothic,

787
00:48:20,613 --> 00:48:24,273
but rather to reflect what Americans at the time thought churches in Boomtown should look like

788
00:48:24,273 --> 00:48:27,533
and what they could get past the town council or the planning board.

789
00:48:29,373 --> 00:48:36,752
Yeah, somebody else had a tweet about how...

790
00:48:36,752 --> 00:48:42,513
Because right now they're basically saying it's difficult to have churches, because of

791
00:48:42,513 --> 00:48:47,813
zoning reasons, there's limitations on where churches can be, just like modern zoning

792
00:48:47,813 --> 00:48:48,813
regulations.

793
00:48:48,813 --> 00:48:51,573
And so this person was trying to make the argument that if we got rid of a lot of these

794
00:48:51,573 --> 00:48:54,773
zoning laws, you could have...

795
00:48:54,773 --> 00:49:07,309
They were questioning how it would affect what type of churches where they would be Because basically this person was trying to argue that for a lot of people their church is 20 minutes away from you know like they that not like it right down the street

796
00:49:07,309 --> 00:49:12,069
because of, because of these different zoning laws. All these things are fascinating.

797
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:14,929
Jim or Tim, what is the other, what's the other one you had?

798
00:49:15,949 --> 00:49:17,309
Michael Foster on modesty.

799
00:49:17,469 --> 00:49:18,429
There it is here.

800
00:49:19,809 --> 00:49:23,349
Just an interesting little reflection on Proverbs 29, 11.

801
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:24,269
shoot

802
00:49:24,269 --> 00:49:25,649
where did I send that one

803
00:49:25,649 --> 00:49:26,949
can you text it to me again

804
00:49:26,949 --> 00:49:27,969
I think I

805
00:49:27,969 --> 00:49:31,589
I think I

806
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:32,849
copied the wrong one

807
00:49:32,849 --> 00:49:38,389
let's see here

808
00:49:38,389 --> 00:49:40,809
I just texted it to you

809
00:49:40,809 --> 00:49:41,469
cool

810
00:49:41,469 --> 00:49:42,689
signal

811
00:49:42,689 --> 00:49:45,789
boom there we go

812
00:49:45,789 --> 00:49:46,649
alright here we go

813
00:49:46,649 --> 00:49:47,609
this is from Michael Foster

814
00:49:47,609 --> 00:49:48,249
who's a pastor

815
00:49:48,249 --> 00:49:49,609
in Ohio

816
00:49:49,609 --> 00:49:51,209
he also works for

817
00:49:51,209 --> 00:49:51,829
Maddox

818
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:52,589
which is a

819
00:49:52,589 --> 00:50:00,609
power generation company. They create like on-site power generation for a whole bunch of businesses,

820
00:50:00,609 --> 00:50:08,409
including Amazon, Tesla, and not least of all, Bitcoin mining companies. So let's take a look

821
00:50:08,409 --> 00:50:13,609
at what Michael has to say. Michael also spoke at the Thank God for Bitcoin conference in Nashville

822
00:50:13,609 --> 00:50:17,489
a couple of years ago. I'm trying to get them, trying to see about getting them back for this

823
00:50:17,489 --> 00:50:24,529
coming year. Here we go. Just introduce this for us, Tim, and then, yeah. Proverbs 29, 11,

824
00:50:24,649 --> 00:50:29,729
a fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back. And so, you know,

825
00:50:29,729 --> 00:50:38,229
this is one of the many Proverbs on wisdom and speech, wisdom and expression, wisdom and words,

826
00:50:38,369 --> 00:50:42,689
wisdom and thoughts. But Michael Foster takes it in an interesting direction. He talks about this

827
00:50:42,689 --> 00:50:46,809
in terms of modesty, which I had never thought of this before. You know, typically you think of

828
00:50:46,809 --> 00:50:47,769
in kind of Christian circles,

829
00:50:47,809 --> 00:50:49,089
you think of modesty and immodesty

830
00:50:49,089 --> 00:50:50,209
in terms of your dress,

831
00:50:50,569 --> 00:50:52,089
typically applied to women,

832
00:50:52,469 --> 00:50:54,569
but could also apply to men, of course.

833
00:50:55,209 --> 00:50:56,949
Those of you who, you know,

834
00:50:56,989 --> 00:50:58,729
want to walk around in church

835
00:50:58,729 --> 00:51:00,709
in your little tiny workout shorts

836
00:51:00,709 --> 00:51:02,529
and show off your awesome quads,

837
00:51:02,949 --> 00:51:03,429
maybe not.

838
00:51:04,009 --> 00:51:05,129
But anyways, he,

839
00:51:06,709 --> 00:51:08,489
just him talking about, you know,

840
00:51:08,609 --> 00:51:10,609
this aspect of immodesty

841
00:51:10,609 --> 00:51:12,589
being giving full vent to your body.

842
00:51:13,009 --> 00:51:13,769
And I've just been,

843
00:51:13,869 --> 00:51:14,909
and he didn't quite dig it this way,

844
00:51:14,909 --> 00:51:23,109
But I've been thinking about it in terms of modest or immodest speech or modest or immodest kind of ways that you present yourself to other people.

845
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:26,969
And that there are all kinds of ways that we can give full vent.

846
00:51:27,269 --> 00:51:30,069
You know, I think Bitcoiners, you know, we have a lot of opinions.

847
00:51:30,469 --> 00:51:31,029
We're really excited.

848
00:51:31,169 --> 00:51:31,889
We're really passionate.

849
00:51:32,109 --> 00:51:32,929
We're really mad.

850
00:51:33,329 --> 00:51:40,649
And I think we tend to probably be quite immodest, not least probably because we spend too much time on social media.

851
00:51:40,649 --> 00:51:43,649
And that's just, you know, one giant immodesty machine visually.

852
00:51:43,649 --> 00:51:45,289
visually and verbally.

853
00:51:45,709 --> 00:51:46,509
So I don't know.

854
00:51:46,589 --> 00:51:47,469
I've just been thinking about this

855
00:51:47,469 --> 00:51:49,309
and thinking about what,

856
00:51:49,969 --> 00:51:51,269
how do you be wise

857
00:51:51,269 --> 00:51:54,509
with things that you could be angry about

858
00:51:54,509 --> 00:51:55,629
and should be angry about

859
00:51:55,629 --> 00:51:56,749
or things that are wrong

860
00:51:56,749 --> 00:51:57,529
or things that are broken.

861
00:51:58,409 --> 00:51:59,089
But, you know,

862
00:51:59,269 --> 00:52:00,649
when and how is it wise

863
00:52:00,649 --> 00:52:01,389
to not say anything

864
00:52:01,389 --> 00:52:02,029
or not do anything

865
00:52:02,029 --> 00:52:03,149
or just keep it to yourself,

866
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:04,909
even if you could.

867
00:52:05,569 --> 00:52:06,149
You know, this is one

868
00:52:06,149 --> 00:52:07,089
of the million dollar questions

869
00:52:07,089 --> 00:52:08,649
of wisdom and leadership

870
00:52:08,649 --> 00:52:10,409
is just because you can

871
00:52:10,409 --> 00:52:11,189
doesn't mean you should.

872
00:52:12,029 --> 00:52:13,509
And knowing what battles

873
00:52:13,509 --> 00:52:15,369
to fight, what hills to die on.

874
00:52:16,489 --> 00:52:17,329
So, I don't know.

875
00:52:17,429 --> 00:52:18,849
I think probably for most of us,

876
00:52:19,289 --> 00:52:21,229
again, is cowardice a danger?

877
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:22,949
Of course, there's plenty of cowards

878
00:52:22,949 --> 00:52:25,109
and there are plenty of scaredy cats.

879
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:27,389
But for many of us, especially if you've been around

880
00:52:27,389 --> 00:52:29,389
Bitcoin for a while and you're

881
00:52:29,389 --> 00:52:31,369
all pumped up and jacked up and angry

882
00:52:31,369 --> 00:52:33,369
and everyone else around you is an idiot

883
00:52:33,369 --> 00:52:34,189
and they don't get it,

884
00:52:34,969 --> 00:52:37,309
you probably need to think long

885
00:52:37,309 --> 00:52:37,929
and hard about

886
00:52:37,929 --> 00:52:40,809
keeping things to yourself a little more

887
00:52:40,809 --> 00:52:43,269
and being a little more quiet and a little more modest.

888
00:52:43,509 --> 00:52:47,089
So anyways, could also apply to finance

889
00:52:47,089 --> 00:52:49,069
and how you spend your money, how you use your money.

890
00:52:49,969 --> 00:52:51,429
There's kind of that Bitcoin joke,

891
00:52:51,569 --> 00:52:53,989
when Bitcoin hits a million, there'll be signs

892
00:52:53,989 --> 00:52:55,709
and people post crazy silly things

893
00:52:55,709 --> 00:52:57,329
about what they're gonna do when Bitcoin goes to a million.

894
00:52:57,749 --> 00:52:59,769
And it's like, okay, even if you could do that, should you?

895
00:53:01,349 --> 00:53:03,509
This whole principle that Jesus talks about,

896
00:53:03,869 --> 00:53:06,749
about not letting your right hand know

897
00:53:06,749 --> 00:53:08,949
what your left hand is doing and giving in secret

898
00:53:08,949 --> 00:53:10,569
and praying in secret, these kinds of things

899
00:53:10,569 --> 00:53:12,789
apply just as much to us today.

900
00:53:13,509 --> 00:53:21,509
maybe we should bring up max's latest and modest post speaking of someone who struggles with

901
00:53:21,509 --> 00:53:28,529
modesty uh let's mean we love max but you know of course sometimes he crosses the line yeah we're

902
00:53:28,529 --> 00:53:35,089
both in his physical dress uh max is renowned for his short shorts uh let's do this here

903
00:53:35,089 --> 00:53:42,709
cause me any problem yeah thank you uh before before we show this yeah i i think that one of

904
00:53:42,709 --> 00:53:47,709
of things is it's interesting, right? Cause with, I mean, the reason why we wear clothes

905
00:53:47,709 --> 00:53:53,909
is, is because we have shame, right? It's we, we have shame and God gave us clothing to cover our

906
00:53:53,909 --> 00:54:01,749
shame. And, you know, like the, the, the desire to just remove that clothing, right. And just like

907
00:54:01,749 --> 00:54:08,549
to glory in our shame, you know, to, to use a scriptural, a scriptural, uh, uh, you know,

908
00:54:08,549 --> 00:54:13,389
description or a verse that kind of talks about this, this, this temptation for us is, yeah,

909
00:54:13,389 --> 00:54:19,129
I think that's a super appropriate thing to bring up, especially again, we are men of unclean lips

910
00:54:19,129 --> 00:54:24,669
living among a, uh, arguably one of the least, uh, modest generations that's ever existed.

911
00:54:25,049 --> 00:54:30,549
Um, here we are, here's Max, uh, had this to say, let's look at the, let's click on the original

912
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:37,569
tweet, uh, first here. So Michelle, semi-friend of the program, I talked to her a couple of times,

913
00:54:37,569 --> 00:54:39,869
as cool as it's been to have Luke and Adam

914
00:54:39,869 --> 00:54:41,189
so they've been arguing about the

915
00:54:41,189 --> 00:54:43,829
opera turn and all this kind of stuff

916
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:45,789
spam, as cool as it's been

917
00:54:45,789 --> 00:54:47,589
to have Luke and Adam back arguing

918
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:49,389
my own comments, my stance has evolved

919
00:54:49,389 --> 00:54:51,409
ossify, trust no one

920
00:54:51,409 --> 00:54:53,769
ossify basically means just don't make

921
00:54:53,769 --> 00:54:54,849
any more changes to Bitcoin

922
00:54:54,849 --> 00:54:56,649
effectively just let it

923
00:54:56,649 --> 00:54:59,629
become frozen

924
00:54:59,629 --> 00:55:01,789
no more changes because there's so

925
00:55:01,789 --> 00:55:03,809
many untrustworthy actors

926
00:55:03,809 --> 00:55:05,649
you never know why somebody's doing something

927
00:55:05,649 --> 00:55:07,329
and so even if something looks legitimate

928
00:55:07,329 --> 00:55:14,089
it uh and it looks totally okay like with um you know their most recent update to bitcoin everyone

929
00:55:14,089 --> 00:55:17,569
thought was like hey you know this it went through people were kind of surprised by how fast it went

930
00:55:17,569 --> 00:55:24,869
through and how uh you know not very uh controversial it was once things came down to it and then it

931
00:55:24,869 --> 00:55:28,409
ended up with this with this bug that allows more spam that allows all these kind of things and so

932
00:55:28,409 --> 00:55:36,369
people are super skeptical and uh so michelle posts that and then max goes hard in the in the

933
00:55:36,369 --> 00:55:41,689
blasphemous paint and says, Bitcoin is God's second attempt to save humanity after we killed

934
00:55:41,689 --> 00:55:47,249
his son. We might blow it this time too, sadly. Ironically, even if humans go extinct, Bitcoin

935
00:55:47,249 --> 00:55:54,969
will keep going. Tim, I'm going to let you as the, the bastard, I'm going to let you take that one.

936
00:55:57,029 --> 00:56:02,089
Max, go to church, brother. Go to a Bible study, please.

937
00:56:02,089 --> 00:56:10,609
yeah jim you have any uh anything to add here i mean well two things one i don't understand

938
00:56:10,609 --> 00:56:15,709
bitcoin will keep going even if humans go extinct uh i mean somebody has to run the

939
00:56:15,709 --> 00:56:21,509
infrastructure like there's no grid there's no network there i mean yeah if there's no electricity

940
00:56:21,509 --> 00:56:27,189
and there's no internet then bitcoin goes extinct so yeah uh i don't understand that part of the

941
00:56:27,189 --> 00:56:37,069
comment but then i do think that there's a non-zero probability that bitcoin's code could

942
00:56:37,069 --> 00:56:47,209
have been written by not a human possibly the angel gabriel this is my theory uh but

943
00:56:47,209 --> 00:56:56,829
i wouldn't go so far to say that god views that as his second son i don't i can't make that leap

944
00:56:56,829 --> 00:56:59,349
You should be a lot more confident saying that, Jim

945
00:56:59,349 --> 00:57:01,589
Don't hedge that, please

946
00:57:01,589 --> 00:57:04,169
Okay, no hedging on that one

947
00:57:04,169 --> 00:57:06,229
But can we at least all agree

948
00:57:06,229 --> 00:57:07,409
There's a non-zero probability

949
00:57:07,409 --> 00:57:09,029
That could have been written by not a human?

950
00:57:10,369 --> 00:57:12,069
I don't know where Gabriel came from

951
00:57:12,069 --> 00:57:13,669
I just want to know where the confidence

952
00:57:13,669 --> 00:57:15,569
To put a name came from

953
00:57:15,569 --> 00:57:17,189
Well, if you think about

954
00:57:17,189 --> 00:57:20,189
The various angels that are presented in the Bible

955
00:57:20,189 --> 00:57:22,189
Gabriel seems to be the one that

956
00:57:22,189 --> 00:57:24,949
Most closely fits the bill

957
00:57:24,949 --> 00:57:26,809
Communicating, okay, yeah

958
00:57:26,809 --> 00:57:28,429
I wouldn't put Michael there.

959
00:57:28,749 --> 00:57:31,589
Michael's more of a warrior kind of guy.

960
00:57:31,749 --> 00:57:32,389
I don't know.

961
00:57:32,509 --> 00:57:33,049
I mean, maybe.

962
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:37,829
I heard a podcast recently with the cold card guy in VK,

963
00:57:38,089 --> 00:57:40,009
and he was going on and on about what a piece of crap

964
00:57:40,009 --> 00:57:41,369
Satoshi's code originally was.

965
00:57:42,589 --> 00:57:44,889
And they made all kinds of mistakes

966
00:57:44,889 --> 00:57:48,049
and definitely caused me to lose faith in Jim's theory

967
00:57:48,049 --> 00:57:49,389
that an angel had something to do with it.

968
00:57:50,469 --> 00:57:54,009
I mean, I'm a fairly accomplished software developer,

969
00:57:54,009 --> 00:57:54,909
and I've read the code,

970
00:57:54,909 --> 00:57:56,989
and it looks pretty otherworldly to me,

971
00:57:57,189 --> 00:57:59,229
but maybe I'm just lucky.

972
00:57:59,409 --> 00:58:00,069
Maybe I'm an idiot.

973
00:58:00,429 --> 00:58:01,829
But do you saw,

974
00:58:01,969 --> 00:58:03,629
you've looked at the original code,

975
00:58:03,709 --> 00:58:04,409
what it looked like originally,

976
00:58:04,509 --> 00:58:05,449
or you've looked at it now

977
00:58:05,449 --> 00:58:07,129
that they've had everyone and their mom

978
00:58:07,129 --> 00:58:08,069
go through and clean it up?

979
00:58:08,129 --> 00:58:08,689
Oh, yeah, yeah.

980
00:58:08,749 --> 00:58:09,789
I've looked at the original source.

981
00:58:09,789 --> 00:58:10,429
Okay, okay.

982
00:58:11,189 --> 00:58:11,449
Yeah.

983
00:58:12,729 --> 00:58:14,009
Yeah, this, I mean, there's,

984
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:15,089
I mean, there's,

985
00:58:15,209 --> 00:58:15,869
I feel like, again,

986
00:58:15,929 --> 00:58:18,929
to bring up a repeated metaphor here,

987
00:58:18,969 --> 00:58:20,349
I feel like the mosquito in the nudist colony,

988
00:58:20,669 --> 00:58:23,569
there's a bunch of things we could bring up.

989
00:58:23,929 --> 00:58:24,729
I do think, again,

990
00:58:24,729 --> 00:58:40,189
I do think there is something, I like the instinct, okay, as somebody who's, you know, more Theopolitan, who, you know, appreciates, you know, the, you know, oh, gosh, what's the, like, Tim, what am I talking about?

991
00:58:40,189 --> 00:58:48,069
the, uh, not, not, uh, not metaphors, but like in the typology, someone who likes the typological

992
00:58:48,069 --> 00:58:53,689
reading, you know, and, and sees the validity in those, uh, I know, I like, I like where he's

993
00:58:53,689 --> 00:58:58,689
trying to go here. Uh, the problem is that I would have, I guess there is a sense if we're not going

994
00:58:58,689 --> 00:59:03,289
to be pedantic, there is a sense in which, uh, humanity did kill God's son and you know, we,

995
00:59:03,409 --> 00:59:08,289
we did blow it. Okay. But like, you know, that was before the foundation of the world, Jesus had,

996
00:59:08,289 --> 00:59:11,789
a plan. It went right along according to plan. Yeah, that was also the plan.

997
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:18,909
Yeah, exactly. I mean, we also, he's half right. Bitcoin could fail and likely will fail eventually,

998
00:59:19,069 --> 00:59:25,829
you know, in the grand scheme of history, just like all human endeavors do. But on the other

999
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:32,089
hand, you know, no, humanity did not ultimately blow it with Jesus because Jesus is humanity.

1000
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:36,049
Jesus is the ultimate human family. Jesus came back from the dead. That's the whole point.

1001
00:59:36,049 --> 00:59:42,409
Like if all that happened is what Max said, that Jesus died, that he got killed, yeah, then it all was a big flop.

1002
00:59:42,589 --> 00:59:45,029
We of all people are the most impity.

1003
00:59:45,029 --> 00:59:46,909
But, you know, he leaves out a very small detail.

1004
00:59:47,169 --> 00:59:49,529
Jesus rose from the dead, you know, as the new humanity.

1005
00:59:51,009 --> 00:59:54,189
Also, if we hadn't killed Jesus, how would we be saved?

1006
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:54,689
Yeah.

1007
00:59:55,309 --> 00:59:55,709
Yeah.

1008
00:59:55,869 --> 00:59:58,389
And so, again, these are great points.

1009
00:59:59,689 --> 01:00:02,389
But again, yeah, I think this does illustrate.

1010
01:00:02,629 --> 01:00:04,369
I was thinking about this today, too.

1011
01:00:04,529 --> 01:00:05,169
Something else.

1012
01:00:06,049 --> 01:00:09,849
I was thinking about a decision that we have to make and was just, you know,

1013
01:00:09,869 --> 01:00:11,949
it was just like sitting there. I was, I wasn't worrying,

1014
01:00:11,949 --> 01:00:14,389
but I was starting to think about like, okay, well, how am I going to do this?

1015
01:00:14,889 --> 01:00:18,749
And, uh, and then it just like hit me like, Hey, like the Lord knows.

1016
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:23,909
And I was like, Oh yeah, he does. Like, I don't need to freak out.

1017
01:00:24,049 --> 01:00:26,629
I just need to just, you know, just trust right now.

1018
01:00:26,649 --> 01:00:29,589
I'll just trust him, like present my casmic hairs on him and he knows what we

1019
01:00:29,589 --> 01:00:32,669
need. And, and so, but just the reality that God already knows.

1020
01:00:32,669 --> 01:00:38,869
And so if you have that, if you have that confidence, uh, again, I think I've told people

1021
01:00:38,869 --> 01:00:41,989
all the time, like, listen, Bitcoin could fail. And if Bitcoin fails, I'm not going to sit there

1022
01:00:41,989 --> 01:00:46,789
and be twiddling my thumbs, you know, like freaking out because God's used, God's done

1023
01:00:46,789 --> 01:00:52,009
more with less. And so, um, but with that said, I hope that Bitcoin doesn't fail because it,

1024
01:00:52,009 --> 01:00:57,469
it, you know, enables a whole bunch of really good, uh, kingdom advancing stuff on a whole

1025
01:00:57,469 --> 01:01:02,409
host of levels. Um, it is. Yeah. I just do think we see all throughout scripture, God

1026
01:01:02,409 --> 01:01:07,649
allows things to get really dark and then he, he rescues us. And so, um, you know, whether that's

1027
01:01:07,649 --> 01:01:13,469
happening with Bitcoin or without Bitcoin, uh, we can still trust God and just know, you know,

1028
01:01:13,529 --> 01:01:18,089
we should put our trust in God ultimately. And you just go to him and just ask him to continue to

1029
01:01:18,089 --> 01:01:24,689
provide for our needs. Um, I like that Max is thinking about Jesus. I do. Let's go.

1030
01:01:26,449 --> 01:01:31,909
Sign me up. Yeah. Um, we are coming up here just, just crossed the hour mark. We want to,

1031
01:01:31,909 --> 01:01:34,589
we want to honor our folks' time here.

1032
01:01:34,789 --> 01:01:37,669
So Tim, Jim, anything else you guys want to add

1033
01:01:37,669 --> 01:01:38,729
before we sign off?

1034
01:01:40,509 --> 01:01:43,689
I give a word of encouragement to the millennials and Gen Z.

1035
01:01:44,209 --> 01:01:45,289
The Lord knows where you need,

1036
01:01:45,669 --> 01:01:46,789
the Lord knows you need a house.

1037
01:01:47,609 --> 01:01:49,309
So yeah.

1038
01:01:49,889 --> 01:01:50,129
Yeah.

1039
01:01:50,249 --> 01:01:52,029
It may be renting for a while and that's okay.

1040
01:01:54,069 --> 01:01:54,469
Yeah.

1041
01:01:54,489 --> 01:01:54,969
I mean, the other,

1042
01:01:55,249 --> 01:01:56,509
the other thing is just,

1043
01:01:56,589 --> 01:01:57,189
hey guys, keep,

1044
01:01:57,349 --> 01:01:58,509
keep your eye peeled on that,

1045
01:01:58,549 --> 01:01:59,429
on that chart there.

1046
01:01:59,429 --> 01:02:01,329
Cause there's the potential for not that,

1047
01:02:01,329 --> 01:02:02,809
not that one, but the original one.

1048
01:02:02,909 --> 01:02:07,349
I mean, like, listen, you're, you're, you're entirely possible that you could have an opportunity

1049
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:09,009
sooner than you're imagining.

1050
01:02:09,009 --> 01:02:10,569
So freaking out.

1051
01:02:10,689 --> 01:02:15,109
I do think, unfortunately, and this is something I've lamented is it's unfortunate that we

1052
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:20,069
live in this world where choosing your housing has to be like this potentially financially

1053
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:23,869
ruinous decision, um, depending on like when you do it.

1054
01:02:24,009 --> 01:02:28,049
It'd be nice if the house price was just kind of steady with population growth.

1055
01:02:28,049 --> 01:02:36,209
so i think there are triggers like jerome powell gets out of office or whatever and there's a new

1056
01:02:36,209 --> 01:02:40,909
guy sheriff in town they lower the rates or whatever you might want to be pretty quick to act

1057
01:02:40,909 --> 01:02:46,449
because those are inflection points and if you don't get on the train you can get left behind so

1058
01:02:46,449 --> 01:02:51,949
yeah you might want to just be paying attention now and preparing yourself whatever that means

1059
01:02:51,949 --> 01:02:57,589
you know whenever your lease is going to end or you're saving up money for a down payment or

1060
01:02:57,589 --> 01:03:03,549
whatever you just you don't want to get caught off guard this is a fuller there's a full

1061
01:03:03,549 --> 01:03:08,789
conversation to be had here another day but this is this is one place where uh there's a verse that

1062
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:13,209
comes to mind i've thought about a number a number of times recently it's that those who are strong

1063
01:03:13,209 --> 01:03:17,509
have i can't remember where it is maybe tim you'll know uh those who are strong have an obligation to

1064
01:03:17,509 --> 01:03:21,049
bear with the failings of the weak and not to please themselves do you know where that is located

1065
01:03:21,049 --> 01:03:26,869
is it romans it sounds like paul you're uh you're muted tim

1066
01:03:26,869 --> 01:03:37,349
uh romans 14 maybe that sounds right yeah it's romans 12 i think that there's a lot of i think

1067
01:03:37,349 --> 01:03:43,029
that if you are a baby boomer and you do have a bunch of resources i do think that this is

1068
01:03:43,029 --> 01:03:47,409
this is one especially if you're your kids or grandkids like bitcoin this is one of the reasons

1069
01:03:47,409 --> 01:03:49,009
why I think Bitcoin is such a big deal

1070
01:03:49,009 --> 01:03:51,829
because you can start setting aside money

1071
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:52,789
for your kids and grandkids.

1072
01:03:52,929 --> 01:03:55,069
You can start, and other people even,

1073
01:03:55,149 --> 01:03:55,929
people in your church.

1074
01:03:56,109 --> 01:03:59,469
You could set aside a percentage of your wealth in Bitcoin

1075
01:03:59,469 --> 01:04:03,169
and plan to just basically say,

1076
01:04:03,269 --> 01:04:05,409
hey, I wanna help people in my church

1077
01:04:05,409 --> 01:04:07,669
be able to afford homes.

1078
01:04:07,769 --> 01:04:08,529
I wanna give them maybe,

1079
01:04:08,589 --> 01:04:09,609
even if it's just a down payment,

1080
01:04:09,929 --> 01:04:11,929
if you can help in some way like that,

1081
01:04:12,449 --> 01:04:13,949
I do think these are ways

1082
01:04:13,949 --> 01:04:15,989
that Christians should be creatively thinking

1083
01:04:15,989 --> 01:04:19,689
and looking to love their neighbors

1084
01:04:19,689 --> 01:04:23,729
in unorthodox and timely ways.

1085
01:04:24,089 --> 01:04:25,989
So we'll leave it there for today.

1086
01:04:26,089 --> 01:04:27,029
Grateful for you guys.

1087
01:04:27,249 --> 01:04:29,549
We'll be back soon, Lord willing, on Tuesday

1088
01:04:29,549 --> 01:04:32,789
with, I believe, Oshawa will be returning.

1089
01:04:33,209 --> 01:04:34,409
He's not far from home.

1090
01:04:34,869 --> 01:04:36,189
Dropped his daughter off at college.

1091
01:04:36,689 --> 01:04:37,369
Things are good to go

1092
01:04:37,369 --> 01:04:38,869
and they're driving back across the country.

1093
01:04:38,969 --> 01:04:39,929
So hopefully we'll have him

1094
01:04:39,929 --> 01:04:41,609
and I believe Matt will be back.

1095
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:42,649
No, Matt's still out there.

1096
01:04:42,709 --> 01:04:43,589
Matt's gone for like a month.

1097
01:04:44,109 --> 01:04:45,489
Matt is in Italy right now.

1098
01:04:45,989 --> 01:04:50,409
with his family. He'll be there for a full month, having lots of fun, but we'll be back

1099
01:04:50,409 --> 01:04:56,009
with at least Ashwa and Ryan on episode 28 of To the Unknown Pod. We're grateful for you guys.

1100
01:04:56,389 --> 01:05:02,129
Go follow, like us on YouTube, like, and subscribe as a humongous help. And then you can follow us

1101
01:05:02,129 --> 01:05:07,729
on Twitter. We have all of our Twitter handles right here. You can go back and find them if

1102
01:05:07,729 --> 01:05:11,529
you don't see them right now. We'll see you guys in the next episode. God bless.

1103
01:05:15,989 --> 01:05:17,229
.