And welcome to episode 27 of To the Unknown Pod.
My name is Jordan Bush.
I'm the executive director of TGFB Media, which exists to help Christians understand
and use Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere.
Today, I am joined by my favorite mountainous presbytes.
Jim, Tim, introduce yourselves.
I'm Tim Fox.
I'm an ordained Presbyterian minister and executive director of the Magnolia Foundation.
helping churches to understand and use Bitcoin.
I'm Jim McAndrew.
I am a deacon in the same denomination as Tim,
and I work with him at Magnolia as tech support.
Great.
And we are here again for another episode of this podcast,
which if you're here for the first time,
basically we spend time on Twitter every week.
We spend time talking with each other,
arguing about things in very winsome and good ways,
but we still have the discussion, the disagreements. And so this is basically a forum where we can air our disagreements,
sort of, you know, festivus all year long. That's kind of what we do here.
So we kind of just bring either tweets or just topics for discussion.
We discuss them and hopefully, yeah, provide a help to people who are also thinking through similar things.
So basically, guys, this is our first time I think we're starting without a tweet.
If you look at the title of this episode, we have entitled it The Mission of Bitcoin?
We were in a group chat with a bunch of other Christian Bitcoin guys, and one of them asked Dan, shout out to Dan, asked about, can we talk about Bitcoin as having a mission?
Is that legitimate?
Is that not legitimate?
And as we were discussing it, we kind of came up with, you know, just realized that this
is not an isolated conversation because right now on the internet, on Twitter and other
places for the last four or five months, and even longer than that initially, there's been
ongoing discussion in the Bitcoin world about op return and spam and all these things and
how they should or should not have anything to do with Bitcoin and the purpose of Bitcoin,
why it exists and why it was created. So we thought we would do an episode today primarily
focused on that. Jim, I'll let you kind of make the case against the idea that Bitcoin
has a mission. Why would you say it does not have a mission?
Okay. I would argue that only moral agents can have a mission. Bitcoin is an inanimate object.
right uh or technology whatever you want to call it so that's the semantic side of the argument
okay you might just say well okay but didn't satoshi have a vision go read the white paper
yeah it's electronic peer-to-peer cash so if you're using it against satoshi's vision
uh or careful with those words careful with those words not satoshi's vision uh if you're using it
against Satoshi's stated mission for what this thing is,
isn't just Satoshi's mission the same as Bitcoin's mission?
I don't know.
I mean, if somebody discovered fire or invented the wheel
because they wanted to use the wheel for something
and then somebody used the wheel for something else,
does it really matter who invented or discovered it?
Those are good questions.
Tim, any thoughts there?
yeah i mean i think it's uh a bit of a non-sequitur because it's like well yeah it's a thing
things don't consciously choose or purpose things but uh things do have purposes so it kind of goes
to how you define mission so if you go with aristotle's four causes you know what the four
why's why does something exist like well it depends what you mean by why are you asking
how did it come to exist?
You know, what made it?
Are you asking what it's made of?
Are you asking what it's for?
Are you asking
kind of what makes it this thing
and not another thing?
So it's like in one sense,
you know, Bitcoin is a set of code.
There's a lot of things made of code.
It's designed to have a certain shape to it.
But it also,
so I think the most relevant one
is the Aristotelian final cause.
You know, what's the ultimate purpose of it? So like a table, the cause of a table in one sense is like, well, it's made of wood. That's its cause. Its material is wood. But the ultimate formal cause of it, let's say it's a dining table, is to eat with your friends.
so in that sense yeah bitcoin as money and specifically you know you get a lot of clues
from the inventor uh he says oh man these banks are doing a lot of funny business uh with the
housing crash uh it would be great if there was a way we could have money that was so you didn't
have to trust people in the middle kind of like we used to be able to do with gold so in that sense
yeah it has a mission or it has a purpose but it just depends on what you mean by mission and then
of course, ultimately, theologically, you know, all things belong to God and they're from God.
All human creation is ultimately kind of under God and for him, even though we can abuse it and
use it. So, you know, the ultimate final cause of everything is to bring glory to God. So in that
sense, that's Bitcoin's mission, just like it would be with any other invention, is to reflect
God and to show himself and show his world who he is and what he's like. And some things do that
better than other things. Yeah. I think where I would, I mean, again, I agree with the caveats
that you made and like the different senses in which we have to evaluate, you know, the question.
But again, the question of like, from a theological standpoint, why is there something
rather than nothing? Like the answer would be, well, because God wants there to be something
rather than nothing. And God created the world with a purpose. He has a purpose for both,
you know, in both creating the world and in creating the world the way that he did.
like there's certain things that he has revealed that he wants the world to look like and he wants
people to do and carry out in the world and so there's a relationship between purpose and an
action and like you know existence and action uh and we you know we all recognize that there you
know something can be used for purposes other than that which uh were you know they were first used
for, or even they can kind of have little side quests. So like if I wanted to use,
I'm trying to think, if I wanted to use a screwdriver as a hammer, okay, like I could
theoretically do that, right? I could get the back of the screwdriver and use that to, you know,
to knock in a nail. It's like, yeah, I could do that. It wasn't designed for that, but because
of certain characteristics that it has, it is able to be used for this other, you know, less
sufficiently and less successfully, but it is possible to use things for reasons other than
they're made. At the same time, there's other ways in which something's identity can be
subverted. It can be debased, if you will. So in terms of currency and people, the scriptures
talk about sinful man is having a debased mind. You know, it's, you know, debased, you know,
at least in one level is like removing the base, you know, removing the grounding. And so you can,
you know, whether it's talking about people or, you know, you could talk about this in terms of
like the mission of a foundation or a school, like you can have mission drift in all of these things.
And I think you can have mission drift in certain tools as well, depending on what they are.
Like Bitcoin and software more broadly isn't the same type of tool as a hammer or something along those lines or a saw or something.
Because there is more of the person put into it.
There is like there's actual will within the end product or within the tool itself.
And I think the other reason why I would push back on just the idea of Bitcoin doesn't have a mission or Bitcoin is just code.
It's like, well, at some level, humans are just code, right?
We're all just made up of cells, and so we're just code too.
But it's like that – I don't think that we're more than just code.
And Bitcoin is more than just code at the end of the day.
There's people involved and like Bitcoin can't operate without people, you know, or there's bugs.
There's different kinds of things that require a symbiotic relationship between the code and the people, which is, I think, you know, we could think about a number of different things in that sense.
But I do, I don't know.
I mean, the other reason why is we've on, if you want to go subscribe to another podcast that we do, it's Thank God for Nostra.
We've done a ton.
And we've read a lot of books about the relationship between technology and humans and technology.
How should we think about technology?
And one of the things that we've found in a lot of different books, there's a book called A Web of Our Own Making.
I can't remember some of the other super famous ones that we've done that we've read.
We've read some Marshall McLuhan books, Understanding Media.
and just the reality of like when you create a tool,
like, well, I guess one example that,
or one statement or saying that proves this is,
I think it was Chesterton who said,
we shape our tools and thereafter our,
or we shape our buildings
and then thereafter our buildings shape us.
And so it's like, okay, yeah,
you know, like we do create things and they are tools,
but then, you know, they're crafted to be used by us.
They're crafted in certain ways,
to certain priorities, but then they have this, you know, concretizing effect on us. Like they,
they reinforce certain, you know, reinforce these ideas or at least they can. Um, and so I, yeah,
I do think it's more complicated than saying, you know, it's just code or, you know, it's,
I think there is more going on there. Um, but would love to be. Yeah. I want to, I just want
to push back directly on the spam pro spam people. Yeah. So I think the general argument with the
pro-spam people is well beauty's in the eye of the beholder and if there's people out there that
want to use bitcoin as an arbitrary data storage network and not monetary network then they can use
it how they want to and you can use it how you want to and you do you and relative truth and
whatever yeah and i think we need to not be afraid to say that there are there's a moral difference
between some uses versus others.
And so, yeah, even if a majority of people decide
that they want to use Bitcoin
as an arbitrary data storage network,
it would still be better off for humanity
if everybody was using it as a monetary network.
And so that use case,
even if it's a minority of people
that want to use it for that,
is morally better than the other one.
So might does not make right.
And just because a majority of people
think that the other one's better
doesn't mean that it's true.
yeah i mean i think this kind of gets back to this idea of like god is the ultimate creator
and god is the ultimate owner of everything that you can't abstract life away from from him and
from what he wants and that we're all ultimately dependent on him like paul quotes the bacon prophet
in act 17 in him we live and move and have our being um and so you know i i wrote something
recently talking about how we should seek to have good money and good technology, but that's really
only solving half the problem because good technology can be used badly and bad technology
can be used well. So, you know, we would say the money we have now is profoundly broken,
to put it mildly. You can use it well, you know, you can give it charitably, you can be generous
with it. But on the other hand, Bitcoin is what we think is really good money, great money. That
can be used very badly. You can worship it. You can hoard it. You can use it to be, spend it on
your own passions. And so you can't just stop and say, well, look, we have this great technology.
Isn't that great? And it's like, well, okay, but how are we using it? What is it for? How do we
honor God with this? Yeah. I mean, I'd also just add one more argument in favor of the anti-spam
here is if everybody used Bitcoin to store spam, the entire network ceases to have value and it
falls apart and nobody runs it anymore, including miners. They have no incentive to do so. So
you just have to ask yourself, if everybody does the thing that I'm doing,
will it result in better or worse outcomes for everybody else?
Yeah. And again, I do think there are, it's funny you bring that up. I do think there are,
we should acknowledge there are limits to the effectiveness of that argument, right? Because
for instance, I'm just imagining you've got people who work for Facebook, right?
People who work for Facebook, who they are content, what are they called? Content monitors.
Moderators.
Yeah. And so it's like, so it's their job to sift through all of the absolute like cesspool of
garbage that's on Twitter that people post. And it's their job to like, you know, find the worst
of it and try to filter as much of it as possible. And so they are consuming awful things all day
long. It's atrocious. It's horrible. Like there's pornography, abuse, all kinds, murder, like all
kinds of things. And so like, there is a sense in which, like, there is a sense in which there,
we do have to have categories for, for moral action where one group of people does something
so that the rest of us don't have to, right?
So like, you know, it's like that is what you just articulated.
Is it effective?
It is something that it does help us to consider the goodness and the utility and the, you know,
it is one tool in the tool belt.
I don't think it's an absolute tool because there are examples like that where, hey, someone
is, it's a very Christ-like action, actually.
These people are serving and absorbing this evil into themselves in some real way so that other people don't have to.
Yeah, I'm just arguing that if everybody uses it as spam, it's not a steady state.
A hundred percent, yes.
The only steady state for spam is if most people use it for money, and then they can sort of piggyback along on that value that people are using it for money for.
Yes.
And related to this.
It's an unstable system.
Correct.
And related to this, I'm 100% on your team.
on your team. I just am trying to like prevent, you know, if there's somebody who's, because again,
you've had like a lot of arguments on the other side over, you know, against moral arguments,
because we are moral midgets in our age and we're very uncomfortable with, uh, you know,
not having a grounding or not agreeing with the grounding that necessarily is required in order
to make moral arguments, you know, cause again, at the end of the day, it's like, well, who are you
like, who are you to tell me what I can and can't do? Uh, and obviously as Christians and people who,
you know, recognize that there is objective morality. There is reality that's out there that
you, you know, you can either ignore or acknowledge, but it's not going to go away just because you
ignore it. Um, I think all of these, another, this is relevant. Uh, I was, I'm in this, um,
there's like this, uh, Bitcoin philosophy group, uh, that I, I participate in like once a month.
Uh, and there's some, some well-known people in the Bitcoin space were in there. So like Troy
Cross is in there.
Um, Jesse shoot Posner is in there.
And there's a few other people, Ella Huff, uh,
Hodel bod from, uh, the thank God for Nostra podcast.
So we're in there and we're reading through these different, uh,
political texts and it's basically like somebody, Jesse, uh,
it like a political course about Bitcoin And so one of the things that is is talked about is just law and law and exceptions And so we met the other day and we were talking about how with law one of these guys was arguing
I can't remember who it was, but one of them was arguing, basically, whoever makes the exceptions,
whoever is able to make exceptions is the one who's in charge. And so we were having this
conversation about law and about exceptions. And so part of the conversation that comes down
is just about authorial intent,
which is kind of what we're talking about, right?
And so like there is, you know,
people who create things,
create them with a certain goal in mind.
And everyone recognizes this is really important.
Everyone recognizes that authorial intent
is super important.
There's people who are pushing back and saying,
well, Satoshi wasn't perfect.
So who are we to, you know, why can't we just,
who are you to say that Satoshi could ever make a mistake
in his larger purpose and that we couldn't correct it?
And we would say, well, no one is saying that there can't be some flaw in there.
But at the same time, we ought to love our neighbor and not just think about ourselves when it comes to these things.
Because one place where everyone is an absolutist, an authorial intent absolutist is when it comes to, for example, our own wills.
Like when we fill out, when we complete our will for what we do with our kids or what we do with our money, we want those things to be taken as literally as possible.
We want everyone to carry out our desires as if they were the prophets themselves.
And so I think that what is revealed, the games that are trying to be played with, whether it's the opportun stuff, whether they recognize their games or not, they're playing games and just trying to act like we live in a place where morality isn't absolute.
and I think that's one area
where we can kind of just demonstrate
the folly of that line of argument.
We've got a question from the chat
that I want to address.
Blockchain is asking,
yeah, do you not think Satoshi's quote inscription
was the first direct use of it?
So the quote inscription,
are you talking, Jordan?
You're muted.
Jordan is definitely not Satoshi.
So the whole purpose of that inscription
is to prove that there was no pre-mine,
which is directly related to supporting Bitcoin
as a monetary network,
because if there was a pre-mine,
then it would undermine the value of it
as a monetary network.
So that's not spam at all.
And I would argue that anybody
that wants to use an inscription
for data related to a monetary transaction,
like a reference number,
or I'm paying such and such person
that is kind of like you do on the wire transfer,
that's totally valid use
of what the purpose of inscriptions are for.
The second you inscribe something
for the purpose of a non-monetary transaction,
now you're going against the purpose
of what Bitcoin was designed to be.
So it's clear cut.
It's not hard to understand.
Yeah, I agree.
I'm trying to think of,
man, I had a really good illustration
for this exact question a few months ago
when this was all going on.
It's been a while since I was thinking about it.
But I mean, it's one of these things where,
yeah, there's really no problem. We all have, okay, here's an, this is what it was. It had to
do with interruptions. So imagine Jim and I are talking. By virtue of the fact that we're talking
in public, we're enabling, we're leaving the possibility to be interrupted. And so we're
leaving the possibility that somebody like Tim or just anybody could come up and interrupt us while
we're talking. Now, why do we do that? Because there are certain things that could happen that
would, that we would want to be interrupted for, right? There could be something that could happen.
You know, there could be an emergency with one of our families. There could be a, you know,
an emergency in the town where we are. And, you know, we would want that information right away.
So we leave open the possibility of interruption because we recognize, hey, you know, there's,
there's a, you know, in, in, there's like things that we couldn't foresee that we might need to,
you know, we might need more communication than we think that, that we need at a given time.
And so it's just acknowledging, I think by virtue of having the ability to add some text in some place, it's just acknowledging, hey, there might be something, you know, might be a situation that would arise where we need to put in something in a limited use case.
but to try to act like that is just giving carte blanche to put in, you know, to fill up the blocks
and to change the, you know, just to use and treat Bitcoin like your own personal, uh, file server
is just, you know, I just don't think that's warranted at all. It's totally obvious. If I
want to accept a bunch of payments, like I go and pay for dinner and then people are paying me back.
Like they need to, they need to put a little inscription on there of like, oh, this is coming
from John and this is coming from, you know, Bob because Bitcoin doesn't store user IDs.
Anyways, the whole, the fact that this is even a debate is just ridiculous.
Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is a whole, it is a whole ball of wax. I do think again, it's, it just,
it demonstrates a weakness in, in our culture where we're just not, we're not comfortable with,
with doing, with making moral arguments. We're not comfortable. We're just things that were,
that would have been looked at as second nature and obvious, like you're, you're articulating,
you know, just aren't as, aren't as obvious anymore. And we could talk about a hundred things
in that regard. And so, yeah. And again, these things do have real consequences. You know, if you,
I mean, like the transgenderism, that's one example. I mean, there's, there's a hundred
things that we could talk about that were super obvious for all of human history until like five
minutes ago. I'm sure there's plenty of idiots that want to go do graffiti on Notre Dame.
Everybody knows it's stupid. So.
Tim, you want to add anything else on that?
No, just I have a bit of an off the wall point.
Those are the best kind. Let's get the purpose of Bitcoin or the purpose of money or the mission
of money or whatever. Jim and I have been going back and looking at the Holzman chapter on from
the ethics of money production on kind of the moral effects of inflation and uh he makes this
point a couple times where he basically says you know the real bummer with inflation is that everyone
has to obsess over money all the time and you have to think about money all the time and kind of the
implied point is that the point of money or at least the point of good money is to kind of be
invisible and to to kind of not matter and i don't know i guess it's kind of like glasses if we're not
talking about fashion it's like you shouldn't notice your glasses they're just there to help
you see better and if you can see your glasses something's wrong they're very dirty um so i don't
know in some ways it's like what's the point of money well the point of money is to kind of be
forgotten uh to go on and live for things that are ultimately more important this is why it's so bad
to make money the most important thing because it's not supposed to be whether you're doing it
consciously or because you're forced to because you have to constantly be thinking about investments
uh the mission of it is to to not matter in a lot of ways all right that i gotta throw this in that
cues up my dr do little quote so let's go homeschool this morning james is reading dr do
little i'm making sure he's reading correctly he's learning how to read dr do little says
money is a nuisance he used to say we'd all be much better off at if it had never been invented
what does money matter so long as we are happy right so dr do little's irritated because he's
got all these animals and he can't afford to feed them and his sister just quit being his housekeeper
and she's going to go get married or whatever.
So now all the animals are like pitching in
and taking care of the house.
And he's just irritated
that he even has to be thinking about money at all
because he's busy about his work, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, I do think, yeah,
the point of money is to enable loving,
to facilitate loving transactions between neighbors.
Like that's kind of, you can describe it in that way.
It's very similar to language.
And we've seen similar types of, yeah, similar types of inefficient and against the initial reason why language exists with like the pronoun phenomenon.
You know, and like all of these. So basically the pronoun thing is like, hey, I'm going to turn language from something that is designed to facilitate efficient conversation through a society.
I'm now going to turn it and make you be my all of you out there going to be my slaves
you're going to have to communicate with me on my own terms and so it's just completely uh debasing
the the reason that language exists in in large part and so again I think there's there's we're
seeing I think what I hope what this brings out is these all of these same problems just express
themselves in different ways like we're all trying to reconcile with the same reckon with
the same problems and they're going to manifest themselves because that's just how, that's how
beliefs are. You know, the beliefs that we have, we'll find ways to, to get out. Uh, and you know,
we're, we're, yeah, it's, you know, it's going to be costly in terms of time, in terms of effort,
in terms of a whole bunch of things when, you know, when we have to reconcile with, uh, non-true,
beliefs. It's going to be a bummer for us.
Shall we move on? I think we shall. Here we go. Darth Powell, rent payment is reality. Home
payments always mean revert to equivalent rents. So here we go. Let's pull up this
chart fully. Jim, explain to us what we're looking at here.
so there's a graph and it's got two lines on it the red line is the cost to rent i guess this is
for like the median cost rent or something in the united states in the 2006 housing bubble
it was a thousand bucks a month and the mortgage payment was 1500 so like 50 percent higher
and then it crashed down in the 2008 great financial crisis to below the cost of rent
uh so what it go down to around nine eight eight hundred no 750 yeah where the cost of rent was
still 1200 bucks and then it's kind of been slowly gaining back on the cost rent line until
during covid when they printed all the money yeah the cost to buy skyrocketed and now it's sitting
at 26 or almost 2700 a month to buy uh so this is like your mortgage interest principle everything
and the cost of rent.
While it did also go up during COVID,
it went from $1,600 up to about $1,800 a month.
So the cost of buy is almost twice as much
as the cost of rent at this point.
So the question is, how can this be sustainable?
And every other time that it's been like this in the past,
it seems like it's had a drastic correction
in terms of the cost of buying a house.
so
I personally live this
every single day
the cost to buy my place
is twice as much
as the cost to rent
and
I don't
there's not really
much of a relief
I mean even if they lower
the interest rates
that will temporarily
bring the cost to buy
closer to the
cost to rent line
but then
that will cause a bunch
of money printing
to occur
which will then drive
the prices of houses up
which will then make
the cost to buy
go back up.
So,
um,
there's not really
a long-term solution
for this
other than
real estate
being demonetized.
Um,
so,
I,
I don't know.
What's y'all's take?
Yeah,
I am.
Maybe.
Maybe what?
You think there's a different solution?
I go back to like,
I don't know.
I'm,
I'm just,
I've become more and more skeptical
of the,
the charts and the lines
and the,
oh,
look,
this is going to happen.
It's like,
I don't know,
maybe.
It goes back to 1970.
That's not that long ago.
Yeah.
I wasn't arguing that it's going to be demonetized.
I'm just saying the only solution that I can see
is for it to be demonetized.
I'm definitely on team demonetized real estate.
But there's a lot of people understandably who are not.
The rent price represents the utility value.
So I can't really understand how there's any value in the rent
that is other than the utility value.
I mean, is it, is any part of the rent non-utility value for the real estate?
I mean, unless you're, yeah.
I mean, I can't think of one.
I mean, if you wanted to rent, I mean, I don't know.
It depends what you mean by utility, I guess.
It's like people rent empty houses all the time.
Well, right.
So the question is like, why do you rent real estate?
You rent it to be in a certain area and to have a roof over your head and to use it.
Right.
Yeah.
You're not going to rent a house as like a, you know, investment or something.
Well, even if you were going to rent a house and let it sit empty, presumably you're renting it for some reason because you want to like claim residency there and get some sort of tax write off or you're going to use it for two weeks out of the year during Christmas and you want to go skiing and you just don't care if you throw the, I mean, there's some utility that you're getting use out of it.
you're not paying rent to take advantage of the appreciation and the price.
Yeah.
Which is what the monetary premium is and the cost to buy.
So I don't know.
I guess I just feel like we've got a pretty clear indicator
unlike most other aspects of the economy or most other assets or commodities.
Like we've got a pretty clear indicator of like what the actual utility value is
versus what the additional monetary premium is.
Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting to think about. I mean, it's one thing to say, to think about, again, with Bitcoin in this context of because there's people who are like, oh, Bitcoin is going to reap the benefit of the demonetization of real estate.
it's another thing to think about the possibility that Bitcoin could cause, you know, it could,
could be the cause. I wouldn't say the whole causal course, but like a causal force for some
of this. I mean, you've already seen guys like, um, Grant Cardone and some of these other real
estate people. Uh, I can't remember who else I've seen other names, but they're starting to like
publicly, you know, sell off real estate or take out. I think it's been like, um, like take out
equity, like take out equity from your properties or whatever, and then buy Bitcoin with that.
So yeah, it's, it is interesting. Like what, what effect would that have at scale, Jim?
Yeah. I mean, obviously it's, if you're selling real estate's downward pressure, I don't,
I'm not even necessarily arguing the blue line. So the blue line is the cost to buy in this graph,
if you're just listening, but I'm not arguing that the blue line is ever even going to go back
below the red line and if you look at all the way back on this chart i mean it only goes back to 1970
but the blue line is above the red line from like 1978 until the great financial crisis so yeah you're
talking like 40 years yeah of it costs more to buy than to rent um and so like i'm not calling
for some big crash.
I'm just pointing out that,
you know,
especially as Bitcoiners,
it's really, really, really hard
to get motivated
to want to buy real estate.
Yeah.
I mean, it is interesting
to think about how
as things get closer
and as currencies get closer
to collapsing,
these things speed up.
So you've got,
you know,
what's the double top here?
I guess it did kind of technically there So it like what is that And in 90 there was like a double top Then 90 to 2006 how many years is that
You know, 16.
And then you're looking at,
I mean, we're at like a double top.
I guess that was like 2020,
you know, 2022 or something.
What was that?
I'm going to actually defend the boomers here for a second.
Okay.
So there's all this whining about millennials
not being able to afford to buy a house.
Well, I got married in 2006.
Granted, it was on the younger side for a millennial.
I was like 22 years old.
Well, according to this chart,
right after I got married,
everything crashed.
And then there was like a 10-year period
where it was actually cheaper to buy than to rent.
So it's like my prime house buying years
as a millennial just after I got married.
I'm like 22 to 32.
What excuse do I have?
It was cheaper to buy than to rent.
So that was great, actually.
In fact, it was better than the previous 40 years
according to this graph, right?
So why are all the millennials whining?
Well, some of us millennials were missionaries overseas.
So I'm not trying to pull the missionary sympathy card.
Okay, granted, I was an elder millennial.
So maybe like some of the younger millennials
got in and they're in the tail end or whatever.
but like there was still a 10 year period that it's like, come on guys.
Millennials are getting married later.
They're being adolescents for longer.
They're not buying houses.
So it's like, yeah, if you'd been on your game
and not been a crazy missionary like Jordan and you've gotten married,
you had your chance.
So stop crying.
I think, I mean, this, it brings to mind,
I was listening to somebody the other day.
I can't remember who this was.
they were talking about the fact that there is real antipathy between Gen Z and millennials.
Well, right. Because look at this. If you had bought while the blue line was lower,
then look what the blue line does. You're like rich. Millennials got rich off their houses,
basically, whereas Gen Z has no hope at all because they've spent their entire life
blue line above and COVID. Some of it was that. Obviously, some of it's that. Some of it was like
somebody pointed out like, well, Gen Z, every generation hates their parents. So like, you know,
like that again, that's obviously an exaggeration, but, um, but yeah, I mean, it really is.
Gen Z's parents are Gen X, right? Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Gen X or boomers. Yeah. But like,
yeah, it is one of these things you're just like looking at this. You're like, yeah, I,
yeah. I mean, you did have, you did have a great opportunity. Now, again, not for a lot of people
who are, you know, more millennials, my age, you know, maybe you're, you're getting a job,
you get married, you know, you're, you're just kind of coming into where you can afford a,
you know, afford a house. And, you know, so maybe there could be some room there for,
you know, people, but it's just, I mean, even. Yeah. I don't know.
They missed the opportunity. They were farting around. They were taking gap years and they
weren't getting married and they were swiping right on Tinder.
Jim is coming hard at the millennials. I did not foresee this coming.
I'm pointing at you millennial.
there's our
our thumbnail
for this episode
Jim just
big big finger pointed
let's
I can say that
because I'm a millennial
let's see here
let's look at the
Kobe
Kobe EC
we need to figure out
how to pronounce
this guy's name
hopefully we will
at some point
but it is not this day
the Kobe EC letter
piggybacking off of this
price cuts are likely
coming to the housing market
excuse me
the number of new
single family homes
for sale jumped
to 511,000
in June, the highest since October 2007. Since the 2020 low, the number of new homes on the market
has risen by 230,000 or 82%, excluding the 2006 financial bubble, which peaked at 572,000.
We're not far away. This is the largest supply of new homes in history. Meanwhile, new single
family homes in the South have risen to a record 312,000. This is far above the 291,000 seen in
2006, just a year before the housing market crash began with supply near record highs. Price
cuts seem unavoidable. Here is our, a bigger view of this chart. So yeah, 511,000 here,
second only to the great financial crisis. So Jim, tell us what's going on here.
I love the hopium of price cuts, but I don't know. Preston Piss just gave a take on Natalie
Brunel a couple of days ago. That's just like house prices are going to rip. They're going to
lower the rates and they're going to rip. And so as much as I want real estate to be demonetized,
and I'm sure when you price the real estate in Bitcoin, it's going to zero, but most people
don't price real estate in Bitcoin. So they're going to rip and it's just, it's painful. It's
painful to watch. What's the, what's the mechanism for, for just for people who are, I have my own
ideas, but people who are listening who maybe aren't as keyed in, what is the, what is the
mechanism for the housing market ripping lower interest rates period that's it like all the only
thing people care about is the monthlies so as long as i can afford the monthlies i'll pay you
whatever you want because my wife wants a house wow the that speaking to get hitting close to home
there too i mean theoretically one's wife wants a house um yeah it it is just rough yeah i do
i'm like thinking about this i'm like yeah the man it would be the monthlies would be nice so
i mean what's the what's the largest mortgage right now it's like 40 what what's the longest
mortgage right now 40 year mortgage yeah yeah 30 i guess probably and most most of them are 30 30
I feel like I've heard discussion of 40
if they're not already in existence.
Yeah, gosh, man.
That is just wild.
Do you go short Bitcoin, long real estate?
What do you do?
Borrow against your Bitcoin?
I don't know.
He doesn't hear.
Well, no free ads,
but I'll show you one option.
I had a conversation and a call
with Joe Consorti the other day.
Let's see, where is it here?
Oh, yeah.
There we go.
Joe Consorti, friend of the program.
Need to get him on here.
He basically works for this company called Horizon
that basically allows you to transform your home equity into Bitcoin.
Just basically do this.
It's really interesting.
There's no monthly payments you pay at the very end of the term,
which I think is like 10 years or something like that.
Go check that out.
Look into it more.
But, yeah, I do feel like there's different answers here.
If you're a Bitcoiner, this is going to have one set of potential answers.
If you're just a normal or a non-Bitcoiner, then yeah, it's a lot more bleak.
But yeah, I mean, it is just bonkers to think about.
You think about how much the world has changed in 40 years.
If this is going to become a thing to try to cope with runaway real estate prices,
if we're going to move to 40-year mortgages as the norm.
like what what was going on 40 years ago jim um yeah i was actually just thinking about this i was
talking with ashley the other day and i was like trying to figure out how much of my bitcoin would
i want to part with for a house and like when would i want to do it because it's like every
year that goes by it gets cheaper and cheaper priced in bitcoin right yeah and then also the
idea that Jimmy like brought up at the TGFB conference a couple of years ago where it's like
borrowing money is you're contributing to the inflation. Right. Yep. Um, and it's like
at some level it's, I think it is like a good goal to eventually be able to just
pay cash for your house, even if it's Bitcoin. Right. Yep. Um,
but i don't know for some reason when it's like if it's like 30 percent of your bitcoin or 70
percent of your bitcoin it feels like really hard to like pay pay cash in bitcoin for the house
versus like yeah you know if it's like one or two percent of your bitcoin you could just pay cash
for the house like that feels feels okay i don't know it is you think that's like equivocating do
you think there's any difference do you think you should always just pay cash for your house if you
can afford it, like just liquidate as much Bitcoin as you possibly could and not take a loan.
This is the Bitcoin equivalent of the infamous line from St. Augustine,
oh Lord, make me chaste, but not yet. Oh Lord, please remove fiat currency,
remove monetary debasement, but not yet. Yeah, I do. It is so hard. I can only speak to,
this is, I've said this before on the podcast. It's just like one of these things where I just
don't want to do it. It's like, can I, can I make an argument for, yes, you know, we are all men of
unclean lips. We live among people of unclean lips. This is really the only way to do this,
but I just really don't want to. You don't want to pay cash for a house?
No, no, the opposite. I really, like, I have no problem. I mean, just people who have,
through ignorance of these things or whatever, or just like, again, looking at bigger picture
realities, like, Hey, I want to, you know, do these things, be able to do these things.
And so they're like, all right, listen, I'm going to take out a, take out a mortgage.
Yes.
It's technically debasing everyone.
Yes.
That's not good.
You know, but it's, it's like, so the people who've made that decision, I think they're,
I think it's deficient at the same time, like morally deficient.
And yet at the same time, it's like, like how much can you really just fight against
these things?
I go back and forth. And yet at the end of the day, the reason I haven't done it to this point
is I'm like, I just don't want to, I just don't want to, you know, expand the monetary supply
and do this. And so it's like, all right, then the pragmatic side of me is like, okay,
so what am I doing? Well, I'm, I'm renting. And at least for now paying less to rent than I am,
you know, than I would be to buy. Uh, and so I'm just taking that money and I'm keeping it in
Bitcoin. And so I'm like kind of trying to, trying to, you know, benefit from that as well as I can.
Like that's, but yeah. When you, when you buy a house, you're going to do it with cash.
I have not made this decision yet. I'm just telling you where I'm at right now.
But yeah, it really is. It, you're, what you're laying out is the, it's the immorality of the
system. Like it really is. I mean, like it's this, just think about it. It's entirely feasible
that they'll, you know,
Trump will get his yes man in the Fed.
He'll get rid of Powell.
He'll get somebody in there who will drop it.
I don't, do you actually think it's possible
for him to drop it down to 1% like he's talking?
Is that even?
I think it's totally on the table.
Yeah.
I mean, and then,
but then they're just going to get crazy inflation
and then is the plan like,
I mean, at least he won't be around for it.
Or like, what is the?
They want to pump asset prices.
Trump owns a lot of assets.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's totally conceivable that we could get runaway, you know, double home prices again.
And then I'm, you know, then I really am screwed.
Like I'm set back from being able to buy.
Except that your Bitcoin's 10x.
Sure, but it's like, it's, I mean, it's 10xing over what time period?
The same time period as real estate going 2x.
Yeah, okay.
So the real estate became five times cheaper for you.
Yeah, exactly.
So again, so that's the godliness.
But you still have to give up your Bitcoin at the end of the day.
That's the godliness with contentment is great gain side of things where, again, I do think, I am grateful for Bitcoin.
One of the reasons why I'm grateful for Bitcoin is because it does, or at least to this point, it has allowed you to not have to play the devil's game and still win at the end.
I don't think that's the reason why we do it
but I'm just grateful for something that does
at least at this point it has enabled
that
alright should we
move on to Tim's
did you have one Tim
okay so this is me
like everybody else
just going off of something I found on Twitter
could be completely AI generated
for all I know
but it looks real so I'm going to go with it
apparently this is from a catalog
kind of like what Sears catalogs used to be,
where you could, you know,
people used to be able to like order a house
and you pay in a catalog, in a Sears catalog.
A lot of these craftsman homes around America
were these, you know, house by mail things
where you get the kit and you build your house
and they're relatively simple.
Apparently they used to have the same kind of thing
for building a church.
And this is from 1882.
If you turn to the next page,
it's a bunch of church plans.
Here's a church you can have.
I mean, it's probably not the nicest building in the world, but it seats like 200 people.
And in 1882, the cost is between $6,000 and $10,000 to build this church building to seat 200 people.
When I was pastoring a church in Austin, we bought a building and then we did a building campaign to renovate it because it was in terrible shape.
And we were trying to do very minor, very minor renovations to it.
And it was just absurdly expensive and getting more and more and more expensive just to do pretty small things.
So it's just, I mean, just again, one of these things bemoaning kind of inflation and real estate.
And granted, in 1882, things were not nearly as heavily regulated as they are today for good and for bad.
There are no ADA ramps in this church building.
There's no fancy smoke machines.
There's no cry room.
There's no youth room.
This is very bare bones.
but as you can see it's a nice simple beautiful church building that seats a couple hundred people
i ran it through an inflation calculator online i said hey uh eight thousand dollars in 1882 what
is that worth today comes out to about 250 000 i mean if you could build a church building today
for 250 000 to seat 200 people that looks like that it doesn't look like a dumpy warehouse
it's like that's amazing what what year is it jim or what year is it tim 1882 okay 18
1882.
So I don't know, just one of these kind of little things about how much has changed, you know, under the monetary system we're under and how much this affects churches and ministries, how hard it is to build things and even simple but beautiful things.
Yeah, I'm trying to, I wanted to look up what was the price of gold in 1882.
It was just a dollar, right?
It was like an ounce of gold was a dollar, correct?
Well, I don't know.
there was the official price and there was the market.
But let's say if it's, I mean,
so then you're talking about how much,
so you're talking effectively six to 10,000 ounces of gold.
That's unreal.
Well, no, an ounce of gold would have been $20.
Oh, you're right.
I'm sorry.
You're right.
Ounce of gold, $20.
You're right.
But still, I mean, you just do the math on that.
I bet you that, I mean, that gets crazy quick too.
This is the comment below, Tim.
You've seen this here.
Hold on, sorry.
I just realized I'm not sharing it.
There's the same guy who wrote the tweet.
Put this below.
This also makes me wonder if a lot of smaller churches out West and in the Rust Belt look the way they do,
not so much because of intentional decisions to look Gothic,
but rather to reflect what Americans at the time thought churches in Boomtown should look like
and what they could get past the town council or the planning board.
Yeah, somebody else had a tweet about how...
Because right now they're basically saying it's difficult to have churches, because of
zoning reasons, there's limitations on where churches can be, just like modern zoning
regulations.
And so this person was trying to make the argument that if we got rid of a lot of these
zoning laws, you could have...
They were questioning how it would affect what type of churches where they would be Because basically this person was trying to argue that for a lot of people their church is 20 minutes away from you know like they that not like it right down the street
because of, because of these different zoning laws. All these things are fascinating.
Jim or Tim, what is the other, what's the other one you had?
Michael Foster on modesty.
There it is here.
Just an interesting little reflection on Proverbs 29, 11.
shoot
where did I send that one
can you text it to me again
I think I
copied the wrong one
let's see here
I just texted it to you
cool
signal
boom there we go
alright here we go
this is from Michael Foster
who's a pastor
in Ohio
he also works for
Maddox
which is a
power generation company. They create like on-site power generation for a whole bunch of businesses,
including Amazon, Tesla, and not least of all, Bitcoin mining companies. So let's take a look
at what Michael has to say. Michael also spoke at the Thank God for Bitcoin conference in Nashville
a couple of years ago. I'm trying to get them, trying to see about getting them back for this
coming year. Here we go. Just introduce this for us, Tim, and then, yeah. Proverbs 29, 11,
a fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back. And so, you know,
this is one of the many Proverbs on wisdom and speech, wisdom and expression, wisdom and words,
wisdom and thoughts. But Michael Foster takes it in an interesting direction. He talks about this
in terms of modesty, which I had never thought of this before. You know, typically you think of
in kind of Christian circles,
you think of modesty and immodesty
in terms of your dress,
typically applied to women,
but could also apply to men, of course.
Those of you who, you know,
want to walk around in church
in your little tiny workout shorts
and show off your awesome quads,
maybe not.
But anyways, he,
just him talking about, you know,
this aspect of immodesty
being giving full vent to your body.
And I've just been,
and he didn't quite dig it this way,
But I've been thinking about it in terms of modest or immodest speech or modest or immodest kind of ways that you present yourself to other people.
And that there are all kinds of ways that we can give full vent.
You know, I think Bitcoiners, you know, we have a lot of opinions.
We're really excited.
We're really passionate.
We're really mad.
And I think we tend to probably be quite immodest, not least probably because we spend too much time on social media.
And that's just, you know, one giant immodesty machine visually.
visually and verbally.
So I don't know.
I've just been thinking about this
and thinking about what,
how do you be wise
with things that you could be angry about
and should be angry about
or things that are wrong
or things that are broken.
But, you know,
when and how is it wise
to not say anything
or not do anything
or just keep it to yourself,
even if you could.
You know, this is one
of the million dollar questions
of wisdom and leadership
is just because you can
doesn't mean you should.
And knowing what battles
to fight, what hills to die on.
So, I don't know.
I think probably for most of us,
again, is cowardice a danger?
Of course, there's plenty of cowards
and there are plenty of scaredy cats.
But for many of us, especially if you've been around
Bitcoin for a while and you're
all pumped up and jacked up and angry
and everyone else around you is an idiot
and they don't get it,
you probably need to think long
and hard about
keeping things to yourself a little more
and being a little more quiet and a little more modest.
So anyways, could also apply to finance
and how you spend your money, how you use your money.
There's kind of that Bitcoin joke,
when Bitcoin hits a million, there'll be signs
and people post crazy silly things
about what they're gonna do when Bitcoin goes to a million.
And it's like, okay, even if you could do that, should you?
This whole principle that Jesus talks about,
about not letting your right hand know
what your left hand is doing and giving in secret
and praying in secret, these kinds of things
apply just as much to us today.
maybe we should bring up max's latest and modest post speaking of someone who struggles with
modesty uh let's mean we love max but you know of course sometimes he crosses the line yeah we're
both in his physical dress uh max is renowned for his short shorts uh let's do this here
cause me any problem yeah thank you uh before before we show this yeah i i think that one of
of things is it's interesting, right? Cause with, I mean, the reason why we wear clothes
is, is because we have shame, right? It's we, we have shame and God gave us clothing to cover our
shame. And, you know, like the, the, the desire to just remove that clothing, right. And just like
to glory in our shame, you know, to, to use a scriptural, a scriptural, uh, uh, you know,
description or a verse that kind of talks about this, this, this temptation for us is, yeah,
I think that's a super appropriate thing to bring up, especially again, we are men of unclean lips
living among a, uh, arguably one of the least, uh, modest generations that's ever existed.
Um, here we are, here's Max, uh, had this to say, let's look at the, let's click on the original
tweet, uh, first here. So Michelle, semi-friend of the program, I talked to her a couple of times,
as cool as it's been to have Luke and Adam
so they've been arguing about the
opera turn and all this kind of stuff
spam, as cool as it's been
to have Luke and Adam back arguing
my own comments, my stance has evolved
ossify, trust no one
ossify basically means just don't make
any more changes to Bitcoin
effectively just let it
become frozen
no more changes because there's so
many untrustworthy actors
you never know why somebody's doing something
and so even if something looks legitimate
it uh and it looks totally okay like with um you know their most recent update to bitcoin everyone
thought was like hey you know this it went through people were kind of surprised by how fast it went
through and how uh you know not very uh controversial it was once things came down to it and then it
ended up with this with this bug that allows more spam that allows all these kind of things and so
people are super skeptical and uh so michelle posts that and then max goes hard in the in the
blasphemous paint and says, Bitcoin is God's second attempt to save humanity after we killed
his son. We might blow it this time too, sadly. Ironically, even if humans go extinct, Bitcoin
will keep going. Tim, I'm going to let you as the, the bastard, I'm going to let you take that one.
Max, go to church, brother. Go to a Bible study, please.
yeah jim you have any uh anything to add here i mean well two things one i don't understand
bitcoin will keep going even if humans go extinct uh i mean somebody has to run the
infrastructure like there's no grid there's no network there i mean yeah if there's no electricity
and there's no internet then bitcoin goes extinct so yeah uh i don't understand that part of the
comment but then i do think that there's a non-zero probability that bitcoin's code could
have been written by not a human possibly the angel gabriel this is my theory uh but
i wouldn't go so far to say that god views that as his second son i don't i can't make that leap
You should be a lot more confident saying that, Jim
Don't hedge that, please
Okay, no hedging on that one
But can we at least all agree
There's a non-zero probability
That could have been written by not a human?
I don't know where Gabriel came from
I just want to know where the confidence
To put a name came from
Well, if you think about
The various angels that are presented in the Bible
Gabriel seems to be the one that
Most closely fits the bill
Communicating, okay, yeah
I wouldn't put Michael there.
Michael's more of a warrior kind of guy.
I don't know.
I mean, maybe.
I heard a podcast recently with the cold card guy in VK,
and he was going on and on about what a piece of crap
Satoshi's code originally was.
And they made all kinds of mistakes
and definitely caused me to lose faith in Jim's theory
that an angel had something to do with it.
I mean, I'm a fairly accomplished software developer,
and I've read the code,
and it looks pretty otherworldly to me,
but maybe I'm just lucky.
Maybe I'm an idiot.
But do you saw,
you've looked at the original code,
what it looked like originally,
or you've looked at it now
that they've had everyone and their mom
go through and clean it up?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I've looked at the original source.
Okay, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, this, I mean, there's,
I mean, there's,
I feel like, again,
to bring up a repeated metaphor here,
I feel like the mosquito in the nudist colony,
there's a bunch of things we could bring up.
I do think, again,
I do think there is something, I like the instinct, okay, as somebody who's, you know, more Theopolitan, who, you know, appreciates, you know, the, you know, oh, gosh, what's the, like, Tim, what am I talking about?
the, uh, not, not, uh, not metaphors, but like in the typology, someone who likes the typological
reading, you know, and, and sees the validity in those, uh, I know, I like, I like where he's
trying to go here. Uh, the problem is that I would have, I guess there is a sense if we're not going
to be pedantic, there is a sense in which, uh, humanity did kill God's son and you know, we,
we did blow it. Okay. But like, you know, that was before the foundation of the world, Jesus had,
a plan. It went right along according to plan. Yeah, that was also the plan.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, we also, he's half right. Bitcoin could fail and likely will fail eventually,
you know, in the grand scheme of history, just like all human endeavors do. But on the other
hand, you know, no, humanity did not ultimately blow it with Jesus because Jesus is humanity.
Jesus is the ultimate human family. Jesus came back from the dead. That's the whole point.
Like if all that happened is what Max said, that Jesus died, that he got killed, yeah, then it all was a big flop.
We of all people are the most impity.
But, you know, he leaves out a very small detail.
Jesus rose from the dead, you know, as the new humanity.
Also, if we hadn't killed Jesus, how would we be saved?
Yeah.
And so, again, these are great points.
But again, yeah, I think this does illustrate.
I was thinking about this today, too.
Something else.
I was thinking about a decision that we have to make and was just, you know,
it was just like sitting there. I was, I wasn't worrying,
but I was starting to think about like, okay, well, how am I going to do this?
And, uh, and then it just like hit me like, Hey, like the Lord knows.
And I was like, Oh yeah, he does. Like, I don't need to freak out.
I just need to just, you know, just trust right now.
I'll just trust him, like present my casmic hairs on him and he knows what we
need. And, and so, but just the reality that God already knows.
And so if you have that, if you have that confidence, uh, again, I think I've told people
all the time, like, listen, Bitcoin could fail. And if Bitcoin fails, I'm not going to sit there
and be twiddling my thumbs, you know, like freaking out because God's used, God's done
more with less. And so, um, but with that said, I hope that Bitcoin doesn't fail because it,
it, you know, enables a whole bunch of really good, uh, kingdom advancing stuff on a whole
host of levels. Um, it is. Yeah. I just do think we see all throughout scripture, God
allows things to get really dark and then he, he rescues us. And so, um, you know, whether that's
happening with Bitcoin or without Bitcoin, uh, we can still trust God and just know, you know,
we should put our trust in God ultimately. And you just go to him and just ask him to continue to
provide for our needs. Um, I like that Max is thinking about Jesus. I do. Let's go.
Sign me up. Yeah. Um, we are coming up here just, just crossed the hour mark. We want to,
we want to honor our folks' time here.
So Tim, Jim, anything else you guys want to add
before we sign off?
I give a word of encouragement to the millennials and Gen Z.
The Lord knows where you need,
the Lord knows you need a house.
So yeah.
Yeah.
It may be renting for a while and that's okay.
Yeah.
I mean, the other,
the other thing is just,
hey guys, keep,
keep your eye peeled on that,
on that chart there.
Cause there's the potential for not that,
not that one, but the original one.
I mean, like, listen, you're, you're, you're entirely possible that you could have an opportunity
sooner than you're imagining.
So freaking out.
I do think, unfortunately, and this is something I've lamented is it's unfortunate that we
live in this world where choosing your housing has to be like this potentially financially
ruinous decision, um, depending on like when you do it.
It'd be nice if the house price was just kind of steady with population growth.
so i think there are triggers like jerome powell gets out of office or whatever and there's a new
guy sheriff in town they lower the rates or whatever you might want to be pretty quick to act
because those are inflection points and if you don't get on the train you can get left behind so
yeah you might want to just be paying attention now and preparing yourself whatever that means
you know whenever your lease is going to end or you're saving up money for a down payment or
whatever you just you don't want to get caught off guard this is a fuller there's a full
conversation to be had here another day but this is this is one place where uh there's a verse that
comes to mind i've thought about a number a number of times recently it's that those who are strong
have i can't remember where it is maybe tim you'll know uh those who are strong have an obligation to
bear with the failings of the weak and not to please themselves do you know where that is located
is it romans it sounds like paul you're uh you're muted tim
uh romans 14 maybe that sounds right yeah it's romans 12 i think that there's a lot of i think
that if you are a baby boomer and you do have a bunch of resources i do think that this is
this is one especially if you're your kids or grandkids like bitcoin this is one of the reasons
why I think Bitcoin is such a big deal
because you can start setting aside money
for your kids and grandkids.
You can start, and other people even,
people in your church.
You could set aside a percentage of your wealth in Bitcoin
and plan to just basically say,
hey, I wanna help people in my church
be able to afford homes.
I wanna give them maybe,
even if it's just a down payment,
if you can help in some way like that,
I do think these are ways
that Christians should be creatively thinking
and looking to love their neighbors
in unorthodox and timely ways.
So we'll leave it there for today.
Grateful for you guys.
We'll be back soon, Lord willing, on Tuesday
with, I believe, Oshawa will be returning.
He's not far from home.
Dropped his daughter off at college.
Things are good to go
and they're driving back across the country.
So hopefully we'll have him
and I believe Matt will be back.
No, Matt's still out there.
Matt's gone for like a month.
Matt is in Italy right now.
with his family. He'll be there for a full month, having lots of fun, but we'll be back
with at least Ashwa and Ryan on episode 28 of To the Unknown Pod. We're grateful for you guys.
Go follow, like us on YouTube, like, and subscribe as a humongous help. And then you can follow us
on Twitter. We have all of our Twitter handles right here. You can go back and find them if
you don't see them right now. We'll see you guys in the next episode. God bless.
.