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Robert Netsley, welcome to the Thank God for Bitcoin podcast.

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Hey, thanks for having me. Pleasure.

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All right. So, Mr. Netsley, I found you via the Man Rampant interview series with Pastor Doug

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Wilson. It was a thoroughly enjoyable interview. If you have not listened to this or watched it,

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I cannot recommend enough. Go subscribe and watch that video. Just so many points of agreement and

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points of appreciation. And we're going to get into some of this and kind of rehash some of that

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stuff just for the sake of our audience who might not be familiar with the work. So love for you to

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introduce yourself and who you are and what you do. Sure. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. It was a

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wonderful interview. I highly recommend anything Canon puts out. So yeah, if anyone out there is

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not familiar check that out but uh yeah robert netsley ceo founder of inspire investing and the

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inspire sort of family of companies uh we're a faith-based investment firm um managing about

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three and a half billion dollars uh currently and growing really quickly as the lord really works

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uh through his people opening their eyes to this huge problem that we've been taking his money and

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putting into things like abortion drug manufacturing companies and pornography distribution and all

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these other things, um, and really being sort of unaware. And so our, our whole mission is to help

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every Christian invest for the glory of God, uh, in a variety of ways. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's

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just been, uh, wonderful to, to see him work over these past, uh, 10 years. We've been doing that

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with Inspire and a little longer than I've been in that, uh, that space. And, uh, it's a pleasure

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to kind of intersect here with you today, Jordan, and, uh, somewhat familiar with your work. I've,

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I've read your book some time ago and an advisor kind of given it to me.

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I forget when, maybe a couple of years ago.

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So I remember who it was.

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I think he wrote his name on in here.

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Evan Frazier, you know, Evan Frazier.

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I don't know the name.

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So anyway, yeah, pleasure to be here.

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Love it.

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Okay.

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So just for, again, for those of the audience who might not know you kind of tell your story,

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how did you get into investing?

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Were you kind of dyed in the wool?

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you went to went to the business school you're thinking to yourself this is what i want to do

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with my life you know is that kind of your story here yeah i mean people if you only knew me back

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then you'd be really scratching your head about what's going on today who gave this guy three and

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a half billion dollars uh to manage um and of course i don't do it by myself we've got a wonderful

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team we've got about 70 people 80 people or so uh running around here with paychecks from from

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our business. But no, it was not like a normal path to the financial industry. I went to school

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to be a fourth grade teacher. And then I dropped out of college because I made about $96,000

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one year working part time selling alarm systems door to door, just like on the weekends to put

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myself through college. And like, well, you know, back then I looked at the pay scale of California

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teachers and I needed to have like a PhD in like 20 years before I would make anything near that.

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I'm like, what am I doing? Maybe I'm on the wrong track. So anyway, I kind of got into sales and

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business and some different things. Ended up getting into ministry as a youth pastor, a little

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tiny church and on staff at our local pro-life pregnancy center and doing this and that. Got

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married, started having kids and realized 850 bucks a month wasn't going to cut it. So that's

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when I got back into sales, got a job at a Volkswagen dealership. That dealership went

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out of business in 2008. And then that's when I kind of like, well, what am I going to do?

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I don't really like this whole, you know, car business thing. I'm just doing that to

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pay the bills. And so I figured I need to look for a job with a family friendly schedule.

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Banks, you know, nine to five bankers hours came to my mind. So I just applied to a bunch

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of bank jobs, not because I had any particular skill with finance or banks or money or math

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in general. But they had good schedules. So long story short, I got hired as an assistant,

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sales assistant at Wells Fargo Private Client Group Investment Department down in

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beautiful Carmel, California. And, you know, it was 2008. So it was an exciting time to

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be in the investment industry. April is when I started.

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And lots of biblical, biblically responsible investing going on in 2000.

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Oh, yeah. There's a whole lot of things going on there. So that was like my foray into the investment world, right? And coming to work every day and like, oh, I wonder which major bank went out of business today, you know? Who got taken into receivership last night? And anyway, I got licensed and became an advisor and started building a career there.

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And that's how I got into this, which was, again, pretty roundabout. And then I had this whole conviction experience, which you can read about in my book. It's being republished and updated by Canon Press right now and available for sale if anyone wants to check that out.

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but you know i was there at uh wills fargo and i i kind of stumbled across this article online one

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day that describes this concept of biblically responsible investing uh where you're looking

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at not just the the financial aspect of what uh you're invested in but the moral aspect like

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the companies you're invested in what are they actually doing to turn a profit

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and i was curious because i'd never thought about that before and so i looked inside my own portfolio

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on my client's portfolios

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and the Holy Spirit

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described my heart on this issue

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because here I was

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president of our local

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pro-life pregnancy center

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at the time

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and I also own

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three stocks of company

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companies manufacturing

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abortion drugs

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and this very unsettling truth

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hits me upside the head

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that every time I

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you know

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a young lady goes into

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a Planned Parenthood

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or has an abortion

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like I just made money

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on that transaction

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I literally profited

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from that transaction

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and I'm recommending

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all my clients

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do the same thing

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and I'm totally oblivious

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right? So I just couldn't do my job with a clean conscience anymore. I thought I had to get out of

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business. And so we'll kind of pause there, but that's generally how I got in here. I can tell

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the rest of the story, but yeah. Well, I'm glad you'd say something. I think again, the thing that

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just, I was kind of just amazed by was just the symmetry between our, both our paths to

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financial discussion and like working in this field. I was a pastor and missionary living in

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Uruguay when I got into Bitcoin, never foresaw, never would have imagined, would have done this

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professionally. And so, yeah, very, very similarly winding paths there. The other side of things was

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when I first started getting into investing, I had a family member who, and I didn't know anything

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about investing. And so I had a family member who just recommended getting stocks that issued

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dividends and that were just basic, super vanilla. This family member said, hey, invest in Coca-Cola,

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invest in some of these things. And so as I was considering that, again, I was a philosophy major

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in college. And so I just started thinking about, you know, going to its end, you know, where the,

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where David says, uh, you know, I was, I was discouraged by the success of the wicked until

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I remembered their end. So I just like immediately went to the end and just said to myself, am I

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going to want to be able to retire because I sold sugar water to poor people? And I effectively said

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to myself, no, I don't really want to do that. And so I just started looking for other, started

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looking for other things to invest in. And then Bitcoin happened to be one of the ones that,

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you know, I was at least cursorily interested in. And then the more that I, you know, deep dove into

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it, the more interested I got. So very similar, very similar paths, Dale, in terms of excluding

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certain things and then getting, you know, shepherded into other things. Again, this is the

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Thank God for Bitcoin podcast. I know you might not feel that same way yet, but we, I'm very

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confident by the end of this, you will be a raging orange-pilled lunatic like the rest of us.

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So we'll see. But we'll wait for that. I do want to get into one of the things that you discussed on this podcast with Pastor Wilson was the issue of casuistry. This might be a term that is not familiar to a lot of our audience. So was this something that you were aware of prior to getting into doing what you're doing or not?

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Pastor Doug has a much better vocabulary than I do. And so I learned that word as I watched the interview. Because that was in like his prologue or whatever. And like, oh, that's a fancy word to describe. But yeah, putting, how does he describe it? I guess like working through very complicated theological issues in a practical daily life, right? Taking a theological issue that's very complex and trying to live that out, I think is my understanding at this point.

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Absolutely well done. I have exactly what he wrote down. It says, applying biblical principles to difficult cases.

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There you go.

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And so, again, trying to figure out how to think about investment is one of these difficult cases, right?

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Because there's certain things that are obvious to everyone that if we're investing in abortion drugs or if I'm investing in a strip club, to use one of the other examples that you use, that there's a publicly traded strip club that's in some of these S&P 500 funds.

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And so it's like some of those things are obvious, like making money as a Christian, making money off some of those things.

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You don't want to do that. There's other things that are that are trickier. Right.

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And so you use the the the topic of Target as one of these, you know, they did.

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They made some awful decisions and are still paying the consequences of them.

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So kind of kind of talk to, you know, some of some of the difficulty that you've found as you tried to be consistent in thinking about investing as a Christian.

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And as maybe as part of that, if you want to differentiate the difference between ownership and what was the other thing?

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Basically making money from the ownership of a stock versus being a customer.

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That's ownership versus customership.

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If you want to kind of unpack that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I'll kind of fill out the story there too, which is just illustrative of how I was working through this myself.

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Because here I was sitting at my desk and I had this, you know, Holy Spirit revelation sort of thing and just convicted.

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I can't do this job. Right. If somebody comes up and asks me again, you know, now to invest some money into this whatever mutual fund that owns this abortion drug company or whatever.

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Like, I just can't do that. I can't be a part of that. I can't be a cog in that machine.

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And so, you know, went home to my wife, hey, honey, I think God's called us somewhere else.

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Here's what I found. And she's like, well, we got two babies in the mortgage. So what's the plan?

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and so we just started praying right um again i thought i had to get out of the industry i'd never

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had anybody doing what we do now didn't you know thinking about this it's like all these companies

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doing all these terrible things how would it be even possible to to know and and to invest

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differently and um so is it this close to going to seminary being some sort of vocational pastor

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but as we prayed through it the lord just put this just unmistakable compulsion on my heart

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that to stay in the business

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and to just start an independent firm

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that, you know, did biblical,

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whatever it was, investing, right?

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And didn't have words for it back then.

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Which was incredibly frightening.

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But I mean, that was, it was what it was.

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And so two months later,

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made the incredibly frightening decision

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to walk away from my clients

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and my income and everything else,

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left them with the team I'd been with

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and started from scratch,

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me and a laptop, you know, fully prepared,

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never to pay my mortgage,

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every day of my life,

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less than two months of savings in the bank.

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Like, honestly, this was, you know, I don't know.

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I do not know how this was going to work out.

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Everybody told me this was a mistake and you need at least two years of runway.

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I've never run a business before.

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You know, I'm still pretty young back then and don't have the network or whatever else

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they're supposed to have.

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But I just knew that I knew this was God's calling me to do.

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And for anybody who's ever, you know, really tried to follow God by faith, oftentimes you

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find out that, you know, he doesn't give you the whole roadmap up front, right?

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And it, uh, he tells the disciples to drop their nets and follow him. He didn't explain what that was going to be like right there at that moment. But that's why it's called faith. And so by God's grace, he's, we, you know, start this little business and I start trying to work out, okay, well, what do we invest in? What do we not invest in? How do you even think about this? You know, all the, all those different questions, um, which is what I ended up becoming my book, Biblically Responsible Investing is having all these different questions, you know, everyone wrestles with.

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Like the owner versus consumer.

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You know, you think about, you know, here I have a, you know, an iPhone and we don't invest in Apple.

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Well, is that a hypocrisy?

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You know, it can seem like that.

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But here's the thing is that the crux comes down to this realization of the truth that as an investor in a stock, you are an owner of a company.

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And if I'm an owner of a company, I make, I'm profiting from all the things that that company does.

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If I own a video store on the corner, if those existed anymore, like obviously I'm making money every time somebody rents something from me. If I have pornography on the shelves, I'm making money by renting pornography, right? Maybe I don't watch it myself, but I'm still making money and I'm luring other, worse, I'm luring other people into sin.

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and so there's this different

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stewardship responsibility

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if you own a business

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versus a consumer

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so like Netflix is a good example

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we don't have those video stores anymore

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but we can stream things

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so if I own Netflix

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I'm making money

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for all the assorted content

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that they have on that platform

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if I'm a Netflix subscriber

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I can choose what I watch

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and what I don't

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I can set up filters

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I can protect my family

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all those sorts of things

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so I'm responsible

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for what I consume as a consumer

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I can watch good stuff on there or I can watch bad stuff on there and I'm responsible for what I watch.

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As an owner, I can't tell Netflix, hey, just send me the dividend or whatever from all the good stuff and not the bad stuff.

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It doesn't work.

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And so it kind of the beginning little seed is realizing that if I've got a mutual fund in my 401k at work, it's not just dollars and cents and ticker symbols.

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There's real businesses selling real things

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that I'm really profiting from.

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And I, you know, what are those things?

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Are they aligned with God's will?

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Because in the Bible, there's plenty of scriptures.

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You know, Proverbs 16, 8, for instance,

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says better is a little with righteousness

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than great gains with injustice.

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So in scripture, there is a category for unjust gains, right?

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There is such a thing.

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And that's not just Old Testament.

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It's like continually on today, right?

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So I need to be thinking about that.

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Um, so as we, you know, I set this business up and it started booming and growing and bringing advisors in and it realized like there was no product in the industry to like index funds and whatnot to really do this really well.

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Um, that's, that's the business we've grown here now is really making the picks and shovels, you know, the funds and the technologies and everything else for investors to screen what they've got to, to find out for free, like what's inside of their funds, um, through our website, inspireinsight.com.

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and you can see good, bad, and the ugly,

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what's in there and make informed decisions

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about what you wanna invest in.

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But so that's kind of the nutshell of how we got going.

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Love it.

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Yeah, and again, very similar path.

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So when I was in college, my cousin and I were roommates

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and we started, my cousin had already been selling books

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on Amazon for a number of years.

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And one of the things that quickly came to my attention

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and I realized that I had to think about the ethics

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of selling certain things because I would come across, you know, books by guys like Joel Osteen

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or books by Creflo Dollar. And I had to think about the fact, like, am I going to profit

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from peddling this garbage? And there were numerous occasions in which I just came to

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the realization of, no, like, I don't want to sell this, you know, drivel and potentially,

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you know, just further the ministry of the quote unquote ministry of these heretics and awful men.

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So yeah, really appreciate that. I think for a lot of people, again, this sounds great. I'm going to share my screen here. So I've got your website pulled up. I would recommend go check out the tool that you just described. You mentioned a little bit, it allows you to evaluate your own portfolio or is it just certain stocks? You have to go one by one with the different things you hold?

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Yeah, so you can go to our website. There's a different ways you can get to the site, but you can go straight to inspireinsight.com, which is the tech app where you can go to inspireinvesting.com and then find it from there. But you can type in a ticker symbol of any stock, mutual fund or ETF. So basically anything that trades, you know, on an exchange, including international stocks, if you're listening in some other country. And you can see what's in there. There's no login required for free. One of the things we believe in is transparency.

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before we launched this website,

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there really was no way for you to find out,

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you know, the average person to find out

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like what's going on under the hood of their investments.

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And so that's a big roadblock, right?

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For every Christian investing for God's glory.

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So if you type in Apple, there it is.

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You can see there's the categories.

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You can click on like, you know,

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the abortion activism one, for instance,

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and expand that down.

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And it gives you all the details, right?

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So it's all transparent,

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including the source link down there.

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If you don't trust us,

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just click it and look for yourself, right?

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So we're not trying to be the moral police here, right?

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We've got our convictions and we're happy to talk about what those are, but we do think that you should be educated, right?

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So here's the data.

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Now do with it what you want.

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And hopefully you're seeking scripture and guidance of the Holy Spirit to make those wise decisions.

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But we've got a lot of non-Christians who also invest with us and use our tools because, you know, a lot of people don't like human trafficking in their supply chains.

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Go figure, right?

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and uh so that's just transparency helps and um so you can see what's going on and then you can

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make a wise decision about you know how how then do you how do i then live right so do i keep owning

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this stock do i keep owning coca-cola like you said or do i not like what's the issue um and

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that's where the complicated part comes in right because there isn't just a buy list and do not buy

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list in the Bible. Like here's the tickers. Good, bad. It's not that clean. Exactly. Yeah. And this

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is, this is one of these things where I think one of the, one of the revelations from the last six

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years of thinking about money pretty much nonstop and from a Christian perspective and trying to

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think about like frameworks for thinking about it is just thinking about money as breathing. Like

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when you give money to something you breathing life into it Like you effectively saying I aligning with you and I want you to continue to exist And so the question is just like you want to evaluate

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do I actually want this thing to exist?

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Do I actually want?

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And so again, I think you would agree with this.

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It's not just as like you wouldn't just say, hey, it's okay.

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Just the fact that places like Target,

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they sell defensible things and non-defensible things.

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And so I'm going to patronize them.

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doesn't mean you're saying,

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hey, you should only shop at Target.

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Like, you know, you shouldn't care at all,

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you know, the life that you're breathing into Target.

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But you also, you're basically,

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the example that you used on the interview

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with Pastor Wilson was like,

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if it's midnight and, you know,

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they're the closest one

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or something like along these lines.

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It seems to be a very healthy thing to be,

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you know, a very healthy way to think about it.

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Yeah.

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You know, all things are permissible,

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but not all things are beneficial.

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Exactly.

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It's a really helpful scripture, right?

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It's not a sin to shop at Target.

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Yeah.

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But is it beneficial? Like, are there other businesses that are more worthy, you know, public square? I mean, whatever, whatever the other options are. And so there's there are simple things, abortion, abortion, drugs, pornography, like there are no good ways to interact or buy or whatever, you know, sell any of those things. Those are inherently immoral.

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Then there's this very broad category of things that not inherently immoral, but, you know, would wisdom say it's beneficial? Maybe better options. You know, like the alcohol industry is a good example. Alcohol is not inherently sinful.

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You know, in that interview, I'm enjoying a good scotch here with Pastor Doug on the stage of Man Rampant, right? I'm not drinking a whole bottle of Jack Daniels, you know, and there are very problematic things about the alcohol industry. So here's a stat for you. 60% of all alcohol sold is consumed by 10% of alcohol customers.

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Yeah. Wow.

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think about that 60 of all alcohol sold is consumed by just 10 of the people so this is an

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industry that 60 i mean they're feeding off of they exist because of alcoholism yeah and destroying

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people's lives yeah now you can be a responsible consumer of alcohol and that other 90 but as an

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industry do i want and if i sat in that boardroom i i would be sick to my stomach yeah right this

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the reality of this industry. So, so that's, that's one example, isn't it? You know, the product is not

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inherently immoral, but the industry's got a lot of problems. And so do I really want to, you know,

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profit from that? I, you know, probably not. The other thing that you mentioned in this other

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interview and, and that I think is just so, so great. I just think it's something that there'd

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be a class of people who I'm familiar with who would, they would kind of want to wash their

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hands altogether or something like target. They just basically like, Hey, we just want to get rid

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it all together. And there are people who have fully boycotted and more power to them. We,

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we like are principally, especially when they did the gender affirming clothing thing. I just was

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like to hell with you all, like to hell with your business. Like I, I will never. And so like they,

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you know, I just was, we just couldn't do it. And so like, there have been again, targeted

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emergency things where, you know, we have gone there, but Brian large, I'm just like,

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I will never. Um, so with that being said, one of the things you're still in the fact that there

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are things that there's more, I wouldn't say gray area, but there's Christians of different

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consciences with different consciences can disagree. And so there's businesses where

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you guys do hold shares in them, but you are then trying to be good stewards of the voting rights

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that come with those shares and the influence that come with those shares. So can you kind of speak

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to what that's looked like over the last few years? Sure. Yeah. So shareable engagement has

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has been a part of our business that we've kind of stumbled into.

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Again, as we, you know, we're just kind of taking this one step at a time.

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So we, you know, exclude companies that are problematic.

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We look for companies that are really a blessing to people to proactively invest in.

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And then there's this part of engagement.

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So the first time we did this was a number of years ago with Costco.

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So Costco had been in our portfolio.

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And then we noticed that they had started sponsoring gay pride parades,

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just like three of them around the country,

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which is a problem for us, right?

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They're taking our shareholder dollars

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and giving them to these gate pride parades.

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That's not great.

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So, you know, we're going to divest of our shares,

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but I'm like, you know,

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maybe I should just call them, you know,

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let them know why we're selling just so they know, right?

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Not expecting anything really.

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So I called their 800 number,

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left a voicemail, shot an email

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to their general, you know, investor relations box.

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And we had, you know, far less than a billion,

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probably less than a half a billion at that time,

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very small.

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but within two hours, I got a call back

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from the chief financial officer of Costco.

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And he was in the airport getting ready to get on a plane.

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He's like, hey, I got this message from our team,

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like something about gay pride praise and Christians

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and like what's going on.

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Just sort of confused.

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And so I got to introduce myself,

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you know, like who we represent, these Christian investors

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and you're giving money to these things

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and that's our money.

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And I'd rather you just not use our money

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to support these things.

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And he's like, well, okay, I'm getting on a plane.

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I'll look into it.

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We have this back and forth conversation

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over several weeks.

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where he finds the issue,

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confirmed that, yes, these donations were given.

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And he comes down with this decision.

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He's like, look, we don't want to be involved

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in contentious social issues.

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So I just issued a memo across the whole company,

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like no more donations to contentious social issues,

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including gay pride parades,

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and just give it to the Red Cross or something.

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And I hang up the phone.

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I'm like, wow, we should do this more often, right?

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And so this is like opportunity to speak biblical truth

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to corporate power, especially as a shareholder.

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and uh you know we've gotten much more serious about that over the years most recently again

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with costco uh you may have seen in the news uh they have recently made the decision not to sell

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the abortion drug myth of pristone i didn't see that yeah and that's a result of we started that

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engagement with them over a year and a half ago and uh and by god's grace through that time we've

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got a coalition together and put a lot of pressure in various ways um finally they made the the right

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decision to just stay out of it, right? There's no good business sense. There's no business reason

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to kill their future customers and miss out on all the diapers and whatever, all the revenue and

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everything else they're going to have. Appealing to their absolute greed, yeah.

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Hello, you know, this is how you make money. You know, have big families come buy lots of stuff

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from you. So don't, you know, kill the babies before they get here. And anyway, so that we can

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have huge impact. There's $22.4 trillion walking around in the pockets of church members, not just

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professing Christians, but people who are members of Christian churches in America, that is about,

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it's like 49.7%, like 50% of all investment assets in this country are owned by church members.

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BlackRock, I think at this point is about $5 trillion. They're one of the world's largest

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asset managers. $22.4 trillion, $5 trillion, right? You can see that if we got a little bit

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reorganized, a little bit together, we could make, man, immense change. I mean, this is the salt and

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light we're called to be as God's people. And we can't just, you know, outsource our influence to

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secular firms like BlackRock or Vanguard or whoever else, because they are voting your dollars.

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They're just voting it with their own agenda. And that's how we got in this mess, you know,

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corporate America. Yeah. All right. We've been very pleasant so far. All right. So we're not

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going to not be pleasant, but I do, I want to ask you some, some maybe tougher questions. Okay.

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Some of them, some of them will be just normal stock related. Then some of them will be more

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Bitcoin related as we get into that. So here's, here's another question. I reached out to a group

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of Christian investor guys that I know. And one question that I got twice in the span of three

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minutes, uh, what related to actually, let me pull this up here related to, uh, what I believe

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according to your, your website is your, your second largest holding. And that would be

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Palantir. So again, there's a lot of people, obviously, like abortion drugs, that sounds

393
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pretty straightforward. Pornography, great, straightforward. Palantir,

394
00:27:04,216 --> 00:27:11,216
it seems pretty controversial to me. I would love to know how you think about Palantir and why

395
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it is that you guys are comfortable holding it, proud to hold maybe? I don't know. How do you

396
00:27:18,196 --> 00:27:24,056
think about Palantir? Well, to help me answer that question, what were the concerns, I guess,

397
00:27:24,096 --> 00:27:27,416
would be helpful to know? Because every company's got issues, right? We're not looking for holy

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companies. My company is sinful because I'm in it, right? So it would be helpful to have a little

399
00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:37,916
context there. Gotcha. Yeah. So, I mean, Palantir is involved with helping Yemen, like, you know,

400
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the war that's going on in Yemen. Like, there's, I mean, horrible things going on there. They're

401
00:27:42,096 --> 00:27:47,256
helping the Israeli government doing some of the things that they're doing in Palestine in terms of

402
00:27:47,256 --> 00:27:52,816
tracking down people in terms of doing this. I mean, just building the large, like just the

403
00:27:52,816 --> 00:27:58,016
surveillance state that they're enabling and profiting from and building out all over the world

404
00:27:58,016 --> 00:28:05,496
in ways that it doesn't take a bunch of imagination to foresee being used in draconian ways. Again,

405
00:28:05,656 --> 00:28:11,756
this is an issue that has become more important to me the more that I think about it for reasons

406
00:28:11,756 --> 00:28:16,016
that are very closely related to some of the reasons why I'm interested in Bitcoin, which is

407
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One of the temptations from the beginning of time in the scriptures has been for governments to try to award themselves, governments in the very first government was Adam and Eve, is to give themselves God-like power and to turn down the God-designed limits and to reject those in favor of taking for themselves abilities that God has designed him alone to possess.

408
00:28:42,196 --> 00:29:07,496
And one of these things is omnipotence. And so effectively, Palantir is trying to award omnipotence to governments and to other owners of their company and other places. And that omnipotence in the hands of wicked men can be manipulated for all kinds of awful purposes. And so that would be, I mean, that would be, those are a few of the things that would initially immediately need to mind.

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Technology enablement and military uses of things. So in military, that category of military use is, you know, is one of those tricky issues. And there's a lot of investors that don't invest in anything that has a connection to military supply chains, like components of maybe they don't make the bombs, but they make components of the guidance systems and things of that nature.

410
00:29:31,016 --> 00:29:37,136
and uh and and so this is how we think about palantir first of all we don't think about

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00:29:37,136 --> 00:29:41,136
palantir in particular we're an index fund so it's a company so palantir is the second

412
00:29:41,136 --> 00:29:45,996
holding in an index fund so you know we're not singling out palantir necessarily like hey great

413
00:29:45,996 --> 00:29:51,956
investment pound the table uh or nor are we any of our funds in the or stocks in the index fund

414
00:29:51,956 --> 00:29:57,596
uh we have an investment in palantir because they don't have any violations on the exclusionary

415
00:29:57,596 --> 00:30:00,036
categories in our Inspire Impact Score methodology.

416
00:30:00,856 --> 00:30:05,536
So they're not involved in any of the LGBT activism situations.

417
00:30:05,536 --> 00:30:10,036
They don't have, they have a below average score from the human rights campaign on LGBT

418
00:30:10,036 --> 00:30:10,776
activism stuff.

419
00:30:10,856 --> 00:30:13,496
So they're not going off the woke deep end, right?

420
00:30:13,556 --> 00:30:15,236
So they avoid those issues.

421
00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:17,696
They're not involved in abortion or any other things.

422
00:30:18,516 --> 00:30:22,716
So that's how they end up in our fund is because they're not stepping on the landmines of all

423
00:30:22,716 --> 00:30:26,936
these excluded issues, inherently sinful issues.

424
00:30:27,596 --> 00:30:35,936
uh now why are there concerns with how uh maybe some of their clients and states can use their

425
00:30:35,936 --> 00:30:40,856
technology absolutely right same thing would go for like lockheed martin or you know any other sort

426
00:30:40,856 --> 00:30:50,516
of um uh there's a satellite telecommunications company in uh southern california that uh you

427
00:30:50,516 --> 00:30:54,576
know works with this printing satellite communications you know it's a military

428
00:30:54,576 --> 00:31:02,356
contractor um now those those things can be used for good or for ill right and so as investors

429
00:31:02,356 --> 00:31:10,816
uh we have to ask ourselves um you know where do i draw that that line and so again i'm not the

430
00:31:10,816 --> 00:31:15,916
moral police we have many uh friends in the industry who may be mennonite or some other sort

431
00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:20,396
of uh faith tradition where they just stay out of those things altogether uh we do invest in

432
00:31:20,396 --> 00:31:25,596
weapons so we invest in i'm a hunter i've got you know i live in idaho fill the blank right you know

433
00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:30,056
what that means and so like we have firearms i think there's a good use of firearms a lot of

434
00:31:30,056 --> 00:31:33,556
there are a lot of investors including the you know the catholic church in general their investment

435
00:31:33,556 --> 00:31:39,016
guidelines is to avoid the firearms industry because of that that nature right um people use

436
00:31:39,016 --> 00:31:46,456
guns to kill people murder people that's terrible that shouldn't happen yeah um but is the technology

437
00:31:46,456 --> 00:31:52,116
itself is the company is self-responsible for that uh not necessarily right and so with a company

438
00:31:52,116 --> 00:31:57,976
like palantar and this is where i think it's important for us to to see our role as christians

439
00:31:57,976 --> 00:32:06,036
in the in the world but not of the world if we were to uh you know just kind of as a whole exit

440
00:32:06,036 --> 00:32:11,276
companies that had you know issues potential issues you know dark side to their business

441
00:32:11,276 --> 00:32:30,076
That's a lot of businesses. What are we doing? We're surrendering them to those who don't have a redeemed spirit and like a God-honoring intention. And so when we call them and they say, and we're like, hey, we're not shareholders, but we want you to listen to us, that doesn't carry as much weight.

442
00:32:30,076 --> 00:32:43,196
All right. So there is there is a stewardship responsibility where there's this middle ground of gray area that there can be extreme blessing coming from a company like Palantir and the technologies to protect and save lives and do good and justice and punish evil.

443
00:32:43,876 --> 00:32:46,736
There's also the flip side where it can be used for sordid gains.

444
00:32:46,736 --> 00:32:52,736
So let's we want to be stewards of that and for the influence we have, you know, do what we can.

445
00:32:52,736 --> 00:32:59,336
there are times when a company goes off the rails and we just and we try and we try and we try and

446
00:32:59,336 --> 00:33:03,156
but we realize they're not listening to us it's sort of like a just war theory like one of the

447
00:33:03,156 --> 00:33:08,116
things of just war is do i have a chance of winning this war if not i shouldn't start fighting it and

448
00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:13,496
if we get to the point like that with a company then then we will you know exclude them um that's

449
00:33:13,496 --> 00:33:17,876
not the case with palantir right and and i you know and you as you know i would make the same

450
00:33:17,876 --> 00:33:25,096
case about Bitcoin. And that is how, you know, a lot of my, you know, thoughts that I've written

451
00:33:25,096 --> 00:33:29,236
about and whatnot about Bitcoin is really trying to underline that fact that there is, there's a

452
00:33:29,236 --> 00:33:34,316
lot of great things that can happen with Bitcoin. There's a lot of problematic things that kind of

453
00:33:34,316 --> 00:33:38,296
go along with Bitcoin at the same time that we should be aware of both of those and make those

454
00:33:38,296 --> 00:33:43,996
decisions about, you know, how we want to interact with something like Bitcoin or crypto in general

455
00:33:43,996 --> 00:33:45,536
and all of that sort of thing.

456
00:33:45,856 --> 00:33:47,836
Yeah. So, I mean, I guess the,

457
00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:49,856
as it relates specifically to Palantir,

458
00:33:50,176 --> 00:33:51,496
we'll get to Bitcoin in a minute.

459
00:33:51,916 --> 00:33:53,576
As it relates specifically to Palantir,

460
00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:56,396
like, is there, again, as I look at,

461
00:33:57,176 --> 00:33:57,856
and again, this is,

462
00:33:57,936 --> 00:33:59,496
there's conscience-borne differences here,

463
00:33:59,556 --> 00:34:01,276
but like, as I just look at their trajectory

464
00:34:01,276 --> 00:34:02,396
of the company,

465
00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:03,896
I look at the type of things that they're doing

466
00:34:03,896 --> 00:34:05,816
and the type of world that they're creating.

467
00:34:06,256 --> 00:34:07,936
Like, I look at this thing

468
00:34:07,936 --> 00:34:10,096
and it's not a pleasant world whatsoever.

469
00:34:10,336 --> 00:34:11,496
Because like, you're talking about

470
00:34:11,496 --> 00:34:13,256
where they already are at a point

471
00:34:13,256 --> 00:34:31,556
Where they can, I mean, they're unifying and tracking everything you're doing, like in giving all this information to the people who have the greatest potential to abuse in the incentive to abuse, to suppress dissent, to do any one of a number of awful things that are entirely predictable.

472
00:34:31,856 --> 00:34:36,516
Like all of these things have happened throughout human history, even without this technology.

473
00:34:36,516 --> 00:35:00,016
And so a lot of the things – a similarly or a tangential thing to Bitcoin is kind of the antichrist alternative would be central bank digital currencies, which is basically programmatic money, programmable money that would allow effectively governments to turn money into coupons that have shot clocks on them.

474
00:35:00,016 --> 00:35:14,176
And so basically the combination of a Palantir with, you know, thinking about the effects of Palantir and how they could using their, like if they, you know, if Palantir signs a contract with China, right?

475
00:35:14,476 --> 00:35:24,296
Thinking about how it doesn't take, it's not very difficult to imagine how governments might use that to, for example, in that particular illustration, like oppress Christians.

476
00:35:24,896 --> 00:35:26,796
We don't want Christians here.

477
00:35:26,796 --> 00:35:29,916
We're going to use every tool at our disposal to track them down.

478
00:35:29,976 --> 00:35:42,156
And hey, if we can get even better tools from Palantir, look, we can we can cloak this in the name of, oh, look, we're we're holding hands with this is enabling international peace because we've we've formed an agreement.

479
00:35:42,156 --> 00:35:46,196
This strikes me as an agreement that's very similar to the one pilot made with with Herod.

480
00:35:46,316 --> 00:35:50,396
Right. This is a marriage of convenience that oppresses the poor and the innocent.

481
00:35:51,196 --> 00:35:51,996
And so I don't know.

482
00:35:52,116 --> 00:35:57,936
I would love to encourage you to kind of reconsider that one just because I don't –

483
00:35:57,936 --> 00:36:03,356
and so I guess my question, the question that I have, and we're going to get to –

484
00:36:03,356 --> 00:36:09,196
so hopefully our friends at Canon Plus will overlook the potential patent violation that I did.

485
00:36:09,516 --> 00:36:17,636
I couldn't figure out a way to screen record so that I could show the three-minute clip that you did where you talked about Bitcoin.

486
00:36:17,636 --> 00:36:23,396
And Pastor Wilson asking fantastic questions that were very curiously or like very, um,

487
00:36:23,816 --> 00:36:27,896
they were phrased in a way that makes me think they had, uh, well, because I've done work with

488
00:36:27,896 --> 00:36:32,656
them before that he was asking questions that seemed to be, you know, very familiar. Uh, and so

489
00:36:32,656 --> 00:36:38,696
one of the, one of the things that, uh, that you, one of the points that you raised, uh, actually

490
00:36:38,696 --> 00:36:43,256
let's just watch it. We'll watch it. I've got it right here. Uh, we'll watch this and then I'll get

491
00:36:43,256 --> 00:36:47,076
your reaction to it. While you're pulling that up too, just a quick little point on panel just to

492
00:36:47,076 --> 00:36:54,076
wrap that up to me yeah the technology like that is part of the sword that is given to a magistrate

493
00:36:54,076 --> 00:37:00,576
right so the magistrate wields the sword to promote good and punish evil sure they can also use that

494
00:37:00,576 --> 00:37:05,516
for injustice right and so there is uh and that's not for us to decide i mean god is sovereign over

495
00:37:05,516 --> 00:37:11,356
who he gives the sword to and so just to to put it in those contexts should the magistrate have

496
00:37:11,356 --> 00:37:18,736
the sword taken away from him because some of them use it improperly, you know, or should just

497
00:37:18,736 --> 00:37:22,516
justice reign, right? That's why we need the gospel. And that's why we need to, you know,

498
00:37:22,556 --> 00:37:37,513
change China you know and all that sort of thing But inherently the sword is not evil And in our in our version of 100 it not just a sword right it is surveillance technology that used to take down the bad guys could also be misused

499
00:37:37,513 --> 00:37:43,373
um so that's again just a little yeah and again i do want to clarify like again i have no problem

500
00:37:43,373 --> 00:37:48,433
with the the emperor bearing the sword i i don't think he bears it in vain i don't what the but i

501
00:37:48,433 --> 00:37:52,852
think there is a difference and i don't think it would be difficult to to illustrate why between

502
00:37:52,852 --> 00:37:58,133
again, giving governments omnipotence. Like that's something different. Like that's something

503
00:37:58,133 --> 00:38:03,733
different than, Hey, God has given me this thing. God has given me the, the responsibility to protect

504
00:38:03,733 --> 00:38:08,193
the innocent and to punish those who punish those who do evil. Like that is a far different thing

505
00:38:08,193 --> 00:38:13,913
than saying, than, than giving governments the ability to be rival gods. You know, it like that,

506
00:38:13,913 --> 00:38:18,093
that's a very different thing. And I, I, that, so that'd be one thing. Okay. So here we'll, we'll,

507
00:38:18,093 --> 00:38:19,133
We'll leave that there.

508
00:38:21,073 --> 00:38:23,713
Okay, so this is, sorry, I stopped this a little bit.

509
00:38:23,832 --> 00:38:25,753
So you're talking about Bitcoin.

510
00:38:26,313 --> 00:38:27,773
And one of the things that you mentioned is that,

511
00:38:27,793 --> 00:38:30,213
you know, Bitcoin frequently, when people come to you,

512
00:38:30,613 --> 00:38:34,473
it's because they want to make money quickly or make money.

513
00:38:35,553 --> 00:38:39,793
The question that I have initially was this question of

514
00:38:39,793 --> 00:38:41,313
why do you want to buy it?

515
00:38:41,573 --> 00:38:45,352
Is this also a question that you pose to every other stock

516
00:38:45,352 --> 00:38:46,893
that somebody wants to invest in,

517
00:38:46,953 --> 00:38:47,913
they walk through the door with,

518
00:38:48,093 --> 00:38:52,073
Or is this a special case that you apply to Bitcoin?

519
00:38:52,433 --> 00:38:56,513
Because one of the things that the scriptures talk about is the importance of just weights and measures.

520
00:38:57,073 --> 00:38:59,473
And so this is having one standard for everything.

521
00:38:59,913 --> 00:39:01,873
So that would be one question that I'd have for you.

522
00:39:02,513 --> 00:39:03,453
Yeah, and it's a great question.

523
00:39:03,453 --> 00:39:07,233
And in our industry, we call that investment objective.

524
00:39:07,453 --> 00:39:14,573
And we're actually required by law to know why our investors, what they want to accomplish with their investments.

525
00:39:14,693 --> 00:39:16,753
Because otherwise, how are we supposed to advise them to get there?

526
00:39:16,933 --> 00:39:17,013
Sure.

527
00:39:17,013 --> 00:39:19,313
and risk tolerance and everything else.

528
00:39:19,433 --> 00:39:22,953
And so as in our position as advisors,

529
00:39:23,113 --> 00:39:23,913
investment advisors,

530
00:39:24,813 --> 00:39:27,473
it's inherent in our role as a fiduciary

531
00:39:27,473 --> 00:39:29,613
to be able to act in the best interest of our clients

532
00:39:29,613 --> 00:39:31,813
to truly know why they want to invest in that.

533
00:39:31,873 --> 00:39:32,553
So yes, absolutely.

534
00:39:32,593 --> 00:39:35,453
When people come to us with a specific stock,

535
00:39:35,513 --> 00:39:38,653
like, hey, I want to buy, you know, Netflix, whatever.

536
00:39:38,653 --> 00:39:38,852
Sure.

537
00:39:40,273 --> 00:39:40,673
Why?

538
00:39:41,073 --> 00:39:42,153
That's the first question.

539
00:39:42,873 --> 00:39:45,033
Buy Netflix, do tell.

540
00:39:45,033 --> 00:39:47,573
and we give them advice.

541
00:39:47,852 --> 00:39:49,153
Is that appropriate?

542
00:39:49,373 --> 00:39:50,153
Is it not appropriate

543
00:39:50,153 --> 00:39:52,253
with your particular financial situation?

544
00:39:52,933 --> 00:39:54,332
And that's what I'm talking about here in this clip

545
00:39:54,332 --> 00:39:57,633
is that when people come in to us

546
00:39:57,633 --> 00:39:57,933
and they're like,

547
00:39:57,993 --> 00:39:59,793
hey, I want to buy some Bitcoin.

548
00:40:00,653 --> 00:40:01,253
Okay, well, why?

549
00:40:02,352 --> 00:40:05,413
And honestly, in every case I can think of,

550
00:40:05,832 --> 00:40:09,593
this is retail investment sort of universe.

551
00:40:09,593 --> 00:40:10,773
We're not talking to big institutions

552
00:40:10,773 --> 00:40:13,293
and that sort of thing about this question.

553
00:40:13,293 --> 00:40:17,332
is, well, I hear it's going up in price

554
00:40:17,332 --> 00:40:19,193
and I want to get some of that, right?

555
00:40:19,233 --> 00:40:22,313
I mean, that is the answer we hear over and over again.

556
00:40:23,313 --> 00:40:24,493
And that's a warning sign.

557
00:40:24,613 --> 00:40:26,013
And that's applied to stocks.

558
00:40:26,093 --> 00:40:26,953
It applies to gold.

559
00:40:27,033 --> 00:40:27,873
It applies to Bitcoin.

560
00:40:28,013 --> 00:40:30,293
It applies to real estate investment,

561
00:40:30,433 --> 00:40:31,893
like whatever kind of investments.

562
00:40:32,873 --> 00:40:34,453
If your motivation is just,

563
00:40:34,453 --> 00:40:36,593
well, I see that going up really fast

564
00:40:36,593 --> 00:40:38,433
and I want to get some,

565
00:40:38,593 --> 00:40:40,913
then we've got to ask ourselves, is that greed?

566
00:40:41,133 --> 00:40:43,113
Are we allowing ourselves to take on more risk

567
00:40:43,113 --> 00:40:44,713
and is prudent for us and our family.

568
00:40:45,173 --> 00:40:45,253
Sure.

569
00:40:45,373 --> 00:40:47,913
There's a lot of questions to delve into there.

570
00:40:48,433 --> 00:40:50,413
So that's, I mean, so that would be my question

571
00:40:50,413 --> 00:40:51,593
is like when people come to you

572
00:40:51,593 --> 00:40:53,893
and they tell you that they want to buy Palantir,

573
00:40:54,213 --> 00:40:55,313
what is their motivation?

574
00:40:55,473 --> 00:40:56,133
Because like, again,

575
00:40:56,253 --> 00:40:57,873
and I totally believe this, by the way,

576
00:40:58,013 --> 00:41:02,073
like the average person for 99.9% of people

577
00:41:02,073 --> 00:41:02,893
who get into Bitcoin,

578
00:41:03,253 --> 00:41:05,793
the initial thing that their initial framework

579
00:41:05,793 --> 00:41:09,733
for thinking about Bitcoin is it's a way to make money.

580
00:41:09,832 --> 00:41:10,953
They see the price moving

581
00:41:10,953 --> 00:41:12,713
and they don't want to miss out.

582
00:41:12,713 --> 00:41:17,133
so again whether or not they want to get super wealthy i've had plenty of conversations with

583
00:41:17,133 --> 00:41:21,493
people who there it wasn't motivated by you know i want to become a billionaire or something they're

584
00:41:21,493 --> 00:41:25,273
a millionaire but it's a i don't want to miss out on this thing i don't want to i don't want this

585
00:41:25,273 --> 00:41:28,913
thing to run away from me so what are the reasons some of the reasons that people have given you for

586
00:41:28,913 --> 00:41:33,613
why they want to buy palantir uh nobody's ever asked me if they want to buy a palantir frankly

587
00:41:33,613 --> 00:41:39,493
i mean yeah so again we're not we're not stock pickers uh they're what those conversations look

588
00:41:39,493 --> 00:41:44,832
like is they have their, like, they've already purchased it. They, they've, or they bought other

589
00:41:44,832 --> 00:41:48,993
things and we're educating them on what they're in and they have certain goals in their life.

590
00:41:49,073 --> 00:41:52,553
They want to retire by a certain time or they have, you know, this college education you need

591
00:41:52,553 --> 00:41:57,253
to fund. And we put, build a portfolio of diversified, you know, low cost index funds that

592
00:41:57,253 --> 00:42:02,473
align with biblical values. Palantir happens to be in there today. If they, you know,

593
00:42:03,013 --> 00:42:07,293
they do step on one of those landmines that we talked about, like Nvidia did a couple of years

594
00:42:07,293 --> 00:42:13,313
ago then then they'll be out you know and uh so yeah we're not really getting into the weeds of

595
00:42:13,313 --> 00:42:19,253
individual stock picking uh with our clients when they do you know palantir is not really

596
00:42:19,253 --> 00:42:24,213
one that we've had questions about particularly but uh when they do come in like you know tesla

597
00:42:24,213 --> 00:42:30,313
or something that you see in the news a lot uh kind of the meme stock sort of stuff um that people

598
00:42:30,313 --> 00:42:37,133
ask about if they watch jim kramer you know and like well well if jim told you to buy all

599
00:42:37,133 --> 00:42:39,913
I don't know. There's a lot of questions there, right?

600
00:42:40,653 --> 00:42:42,753
If Jim told you to buy it, you should probably sell it.

601
00:42:43,213 --> 00:42:45,813
That's right. It's a good contrarian indicator.

602
00:42:46,793 --> 00:42:49,773
We're trying to help people be good investors, right?

603
00:42:50,213 --> 00:42:56,553
And make wise decisions in line with their ability to take on risk.

604
00:42:56,953 --> 00:43:03,553
Sometimes people feel like their personality is okay with risk.

605
00:43:03,633 --> 00:43:04,693
They're comfortable with risk.

606
00:43:04,693 --> 00:43:27,893
But their financial situation tells them, you should not be taking risk right now. And so we're here to help that behavior, connect that behavior with the investor, which sometimes could include Bitcoin. Yeah, sure. If you want to take some Bitcoin, then here's an appropriate amount. Go ahead, know the risks, be educated on what actually you're buying and what you're not buying, or maybe not.

607
00:43:27,893 --> 00:43:31,253
Right. And so that's that's how we approach every investment discussion.

608
00:43:32,713 --> 00:43:37,233
Obviously, with Bitcoin's meteoric rise and price, that's a very common question.

609
00:43:37,893 --> 00:43:40,933
And so that's why we have a special discussion about it.

610
00:43:41,352 --> 00:43:46,653
Yeah. And I think that one of the things that I and one of the things that I was I don't know,

611
00:43:46,753 --> 00:43:51,513
one of the things that I took away from the rest of this clip, which we can watch here is

612
00:43:51,513 --> 00:43:56,852
well, actually, we'll just pause on that. I'm going to I'm going to continue playing the next

613
00:43:56,852 --> 00:43:59,253
little part of the clip and then we can kind of talk about it from there. So here we go.

614
00:43:59,973 --> 00:44:05,213
Yeah. So I think that's a great point. I would agree. I agree with you there. Like again, if,

615
00:44:05,273 --> 00:44:09,653
if that, if that is the only thing that's motivating you, then yeah, you should be,

616
00:44:09,813 --> 00:44:15,153
you should be aware. The scriptures talk about the danger and the folly of trying to make money

617
00:44:15,153 --> 00:44:21,852
quickly. So I think that, that, that's great advice. At the same time, what, what is missing

618
00:44:21,852 --> 00:44:30,433
in this discussion is what is Bitcoin and what is it designed, what is it designed to do? And this

619
00:44:30,433 --> 00:44:37,913
is like, I think, and I see this a lot where Dave Ramsey is another popular voice who, you know,

620
00:44:37,913 --> 00:44:46,893
is very, is not very appreciative of Bitcoin, not a big fan. And a lot of his critiques are what I

621
00:44:46,893 --> 00:44:52,473
would argue are like above ground critiques. It's like, it's very circumstantial of what people are

622
00:44:52,473 --> 00:44:58,373
doing with it. There's very little discussion, basically no discussion about like, okay, yes,

623
00:44:58,493 --> 00:45:05,053
Bitcoin is, we're watching like Bitcoin, it's doing certain things. But the bigger question,

624
00:45:05,133 --> 00:45:10,973
and the question I would, that I just always go to is, what is this? What, to try to figure out

625
00:45:10,973 --> 00:45:16,173
what my expectations should be and to figure out how to think about, how to have a thesis about

626
00:45:16,173 --> 00:45:22,713
Bitcoin would be, what is Bitcoin trying to do? And so, I mean, I guess that would be a question

627
00:45:22,713 --> 00:45:27,593
I would have to use. What is your understanding of what Bitcoin exists to do? Like what is Bitcoin?

628
00:45:27,673 --> 00:45:34,633
Why does it exist? Very good question. Yeah. So Bitcoin, you know, and the whole decentralized,

629
00:45:35,273 --> 00:45:40,993
you know, non-inflatable, you know, currency sort of thesis is very honorable, right? So I have no

630
00:45:40,993 --> 00:45:45,953
problems with the thesis of, hey, wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a currency that we could

631
00:45:45,953 --> 00:45:52,433
use that would take power to steal money basically from governments who are over indebted and

632
00:45:52,433 --> 00:45:55,793
everything else and just said hey i'm just gonna steal from my people by inflating the currency

633
00:45:55,793 --> 00:46:00,852
but it being problem problem solved right that's a problem that is immoral it's unethical

634
00:46:00,852 --> 00:46:08,893
uh i i agree with that bitcoin is uh and you know other sorts of approaches with cryptocurrency and

635
00:46:08,893 --> 00:46:13,813
and you know even gold bars and things of that nature a lot of different ways people try to

636
00:46:13,813 --> 00:46:23,033
address those issues. So that's noble. And, and I appreciate that. So there's perhaps other areas

637
00:46:23,033 --> 00:46:27,773
that Bitcoin tries to, you know, kind of niche, you know, solutions for businesses and whatever

638
00:46:27,773 --> 00:46:34,893
else that, you know, institutional wire transfers and, and whatever you that people try to address

639
00:46:34,893 --> 00:46:41,852
with Bitcoin cryptocurrencies. What I in my seat, however, I think I want what I want to draw a

640
00:46:41,852 --> 00:46:49,173
distinction between is bitcoin as really what is bitcoin like what you're asking which by itself

641
00:46:49,173 --> 00:46:58,332
again is not um really problematic in just why it's why it exists in the noble uses that it has

642
00:46:58,332 --> 00:47:06,493
but it can be true and i think it's very true that i can uh really appreciate and be a fan of like

643
00:47:06,493 --> 00:47:09,793
what you know all the benefits of bitcoin and it can still be a terrible investment

644
00:47:09,793 --> 00:47:16,893
right so those are two different things i get a company in a in the world of stocks that man i'd

645
00:47:16,893 --> 00:47:22,453
love this name it's a biotech company that's got is going to cure cancer right and and it's days

646
00:47:22,453 --> 00:47:28,053
from coming public or whatever else and or being released to the public uh with their treatments

647
00:47:28,053 --> 00:47:33,213
but doesn't mean it's a good investment i can be rooting them on but maybe i missed the boat

648
00:47:33,213 --> 00:47:38,373
right or whatever the case is but the price that i'd have to pay for the stock would be a terrible

649
00:47:38,373 --> 00:47:43,453
financial decision for my family. And so those, just because I think something is necessarily not

650
00:47:43,453 --> 00:47:49,393
a good investment doesn't mean I think the company or the, or the item in this case, Bitcoin is, uh,

651
00:47:49,433 --> 00:47:55,553
just bad. Right. So I would caution against that. So you're a Bitcoin expert, right? I'm not a

652
00:47:55,553 --> 00:48:01,293
Bitcoin expert. You know a lot more about Bitcoin than I do. Um, I'm an investing expert. And so

653
00:48:01,293 --> 00:48:06,673
that's what I think about investing. And that correlates to a lot of different sort of, uh,

654
00:48:06,673 --> 00:48:11,213
you know, types of investments. And so we need to know a lot about a, or a little about a lot of

655
00:48:11,213 --> 00:48:18,213
things. But really in the context of, is this a good investment, a wise investment? And not just

656
00:48:18,213 --> 00:48:25,093
that, but is this a wise investment for Aunt Sally and my brother Jim and this guy and that lady?

657
00:48:25,213 --> 00:48:30,773
Because the answer is different for all those people. The common thing that all of these

658
00:48:30,773 --> 00:48:35,653
investors need is good education. Before you put money into something, you really should understand

659
00:48:35,653 --> 00:48:40,053
what it is so that's exactly what you're saying right so like what is bitcoin what are the pros

660
00:48:40,053 --> 00:48:43,193
what are the cons a lot of the questions you're asking about palantir right what are the pros

661
00:48:43,193 --> 00:48:47,633
what are the cons do i personally feel like i want to put my money into that and so like if

662
00:48:47,633 --> 00:48:52,473
your conscious conscience is uh you know pricked on that like with a palantir then i would encourage

663
00:48:52,473 --> 00:48:59,373
you not to buy that stock right um just like it would be like target or anything else and we don't

664
00:48:59,373 --> 00:49:05,553
want to bind each other's consciences over over issues that are again not inherently sinful at

665
00:49:05,553 --> 00:49:07,313
the Holy Spirit does not bind conscience on.

666
00:49:07,773 --> 00:49:07,933
Sure.

667
00:49:08,373 --> 00:49:09,993
Just unilaterally, like abortion drugs

668
00:49:09,993 --> 00:49:10,913
or something of that nature.

669
00:49:11,393 --> 00:49:15,113
And that goes for avoidance and also participation.

670
00:49:15,852 --> 00:49:19,953
So it's a potential pitfall in my line of work

671
00:49:19,953 --> 00:49:22,633
to bind someone's conscience

672
00:49:22,633 --> 00:49:25,493
about the alcohol industry, for instance,

673
00:49:26,073 --> 00:49:27,893
and to say like, look, if you invest in alcohol,

674
00:49:28,013 --> 00:49:30,453
you're a sinner and you need to ask repentance.

675
00:49:30,973 --> 00:49:32,373
Like, that is not true.

676
00:49:32,713 --> 00:49:33,913
If you invest in the alcohol industry,

677
00:49:33,913 --> 00:49:39,093
you that is not inherently sinful that's not a problem i might not invest in the alcohol industry

678
00:49:39,093 --> 00:49:45,573
for things i stated earlier but if you think it's okay then you know the bible doesn't just rule

679
00:49:45,573 --> 00:49:50,513
that out right so i don't want to bind their conscience to the negative sure similarly the

680
00:49:50,513 --> 00:49:55,852
problem with the scripture points out uh more often i think is binding people's consciences to

681
00:49:55,852 --> 00:50:01,573
the well i guess maybe it's equal you know but to do something that their conscience prohibited them

682
00:50:01,573 --> 00:50:06,993
from doing right yeah and i think of like meat sacrifice to idols right so my conscience doesn't

683
00:50:06,993 --> 00:50:12,313
bind me uh so i'm gonna just eat the meat in front of my brother who's gonna and it's leading him

684
00:50:12,313 --> 00:50:19,993
into stumbling so um i could also say you know by my promotion of the alcohol industry is to use an

685
00:50:19,993 --> 00:50:25,493
example bringing somebody into that who when their conscience really is preventing them and causing

686
00:50:25,493 --> 00:50:29,113
the sin against the conscience that god's given them i think there's a danger there with bitcoin

687
00:50:29,113 --> 00:50:37,033
where people perhaps are, you know, brought into an investment with Bitcoin

688
00:50:37,033 --> 00:50:41,953
when their conscience, when their heart's not ready for it.

689
00:50:42,013 --> 00:50:43,553
Like maybe they are being lured by greed.

690
00:50:43,693 --> 00:50:45,653
Maybe they've been wrestling with this, right?

691
00:50:45,653 --> 00:50:47,993
There's this really is a greed component.

692
00:50:49,013 --> 00:50:54,073
And they're kind of encouraged to follow that,

693
00:50:54,453 --> 00:50:56,973
that into the investment when their heart wasn't right.

694
00:50:56,973 --> 00:51:06,453
So that's the point that I, and it's a very nuanced point, but that's what I really try to underscore because there's so much positivity around crypto.

695
00:51:07,153 --> 00:51:12,513
Like no one's writing articles about the millions of dollars I lost in the crypto market, right?

696
00:51:12,533 --> 00:51:14,033
It's always the other part.

697
00:51:14,852 --> 00:51:19,332
I see, well, again, as somebody who works in the industry, I see tons of those articles, but again, I can understand.

698
00:51:19,413 --> 00:51:24,433
They're not necessarily the ones, I mean, FTX, when FTX blew up, that was everywhere for years, right?

699
00:51:24,973 --> 00:51:27,673
And again, that had a catastrophic impact.

700
00:51:28,113 --> 00:51:29,893
Again, that had nothing to do with Bitcoin.

701
00:51:30,133 --> 00:51:31,933
That was actually, they actually were lying

702
00:51:31,933 --> 00:51:33,213
about having purchased Bitcoin.

703
00:51:33,373 --> 00:51:35,053
They actually only had like a couple Bitcoin

704
00:51:35,053 --> 00:51:36,213
on their balance sheet,

705
00:51:36,573 --> 00:51:37,733
despite telling their customers

706
00:51:37,733 --> 00:51:39,093
that they had bought, you know,

707
00:51:39,153 --> 00:51:40,173
tons of Bitcoin for them.

708
00:51:40,832 --> 00:51:42,873
Right, because greed leads you into all sorts of pitfalls

709
00:51:42,873 --> 00:51:44,153
and snares that lead to, right?

710
00:51:44,332 --> 00:51:45,893
They did have Bitcoin at one point.

711
00:51:46,373 --> 00:51:49,593
And it led them, you know, that whole sordid tale

712
00:51:49,593 --> 00:51:51,293
that we didn't need to rehash, but there you go.

713
00:51:51,293 --> 00:51:53,133
And again, and this is where we would be in agreement

714
00:51:53,133 --> 00:51:57,613
because like I look at, I mean, you look at the company, like the mags, the mag eight, mag seven,

715
00:51:57,713 --> 00:52:01,613
whatever they are, like that, the vast majority, again, if, if we're talking about Christians

716
00:52:01,613 --> 00:52:07,253
having 22.2 trillion, Christians have trillions in those companies and they're not in it because

717
00:52:07,253 --> 00:52:12,733
they're thinking, Oh, I think that Facebook and Apple and Tesla are making the world a better

718
00:52:12,733 --> 00:52:17,393
place. And I want to, they're, they're very much thinking because of the debasement of the United

719
00:52:17,393 --> 00:52:21,352
States currency, they're very much thinking I have to make money in order to retire.

720
00:52:21,352 --> 00:52:35,633
And so this is where, again, where we would both agree, like the problem with, and I would attribute this latest that far more at the feet of the debasement of the currency is because of the unilateral government action that is outside of people's ability to do anything about it.

721
00:52:35,753 --> 00:52:48,433
You are now tempting people to basically to overlook some of the things that these companies are doing in the name of trying to be able to retire and trying to be able to continue to provide for their families.

722
00:52:48,433 --> 00:52:54,513
again, you are with your company, you are in the ETF, the product, you're attempting to provide,

723
00:52:54,593 --> 00:52:58,953
to basically help people see you don't have to make this Faustian bargain in order to be able

724
00:52:58,953 --> 00:53:04,373
to retire. And so praise the Lord for you and for what you're doing. Some of the other questions

725
00:53:04,373 --> 00:53:09,393
are just things that I would really just want to point out as it relates to Bitcoin would be one

726
00:53:09,393 --> 00:53:15,313
of the things that I'm most excited about and most grateful for about Bitcoin is I'm grateful

727
00:53:15,313 --> 00:53:19,713
for it because of the ministry that we did while we were in Uruguay. So half of our church members

728
00:53:19,713 --> 00:53:24,313
in Uruguay were Venezuelan immigrants. And so they had had, these were people who were doctors,

729
00:53:24,473 --> 00:53:28,893
economists. These were people who were in some cases making six figures in Venezuela, which is,

730
00:53:29,213 --> 00:53:32,893
you know, in many cases, one of the most comfortable and resource rich countries in

731
00:53:32,893 --> 00:53:38,832
all of Latin America. Even years into their hyperinflation, gas was two cents a gallon,

732
00:53:38,993 --> 00:53:44,093
to give you an idea. I mean, just staggering wealth. But over the course of years through

733
00:53:44,093 --> 00:53:49,733
the governments, each new politician would promise free stuff to the citizens. The way that they would

734
00:53:49,733 --> 00:53:55,553
fund that free stuff is just printing money. And so the end result was just utter chaos. So you saw

735
00:53:55,553 --> 00:54:01,253
the currency became worthless. You have dumpsters full of these currencies. And so this destroyed

736
00:54:01,253 --> 00:54:06,413
families. We had people in our church who were husbands who had to move away to get a job to try

737
00:54:06,413 --> 00:54:11,253
to provide for their families. That resulted in children growing up without their dads. This

738
00:54:11,253 --> 00:54:16,313
resulted in infidelity on the parts of husbands and wives. You're separated from your wife for

739
00:54:16,313 --> 00:54:21,832
years. This is just a recipe for disaster. And so I just started to see the ways in which currency

740
00:54:21,832 --> 00:54:27,352
debasement destroyed lives in Venezuela and then was stunned to find this was not an isolated

741
00:54:27,352 --> 00:54:31,633
incident. This has happened multiple times over and over again throughout. This is a constant

742
00:54:31,633 --> 00:54:37,153
refrain throughout history is that this cycle happens. And so one of the amazing things that

743
00:54:37,153 --> 00:54:44,033
I found about Bitcoin was that by investing, by buying a currency that is a effectively universal

744
00:54:44,033 --> 00:54:49,253
currency, global currency can be used anywhere where the internet is. Like I am bolstering a

745
00:54:49,253 --> 00:54:55,373
system that is in, it's a, it's basically a parallel system that can provide a viable alternative

746
00:54:55,373 --> 00:55:01,133
for some of the most vulnerable, vulnerable people all over the world. Just by my, again,

747
00:55:01,133 --> 00:55:06,953
my little, my little stone, like my, my little thing, I can throw this and I can add legitimacy

748
00:55:06,953 --> 00:55:09,613
to something that provides an opt-out

749
00:55:09,613 --> 00:55:11,073
for people who are in

750
00:55:11,073 --> 00:55:13,153
awful situations all over the world.

751
00:55:13,913 --> 00:55:15,373
And so, no, I contrast

752
00:55:15,373 --> 00:55:16,933
that with something like the dollar.

753
00:55:17,173 --> 00:55:19,133
Because with the dollar, the dollar

754
00:55:19,133 --> 00:55:21,373
is something, like, it is an investment.

755
00:55:21,513 --> 00:55:23,113
I'm holding this thing. Now, again, we can

756
00:55:23,113 --> 00:55:25,233
quibble about the word investment, but it's something

757
00:55:25,233 --> 00:55:27,332
that by virtue of me buying

758
00:55:27,332 --> 00:55:29,332
it, I'm lending credibility

759
00:55:29,332 --> 00:55:31,073
and I'm giving life

760
00:55:31,073 --> 00:55:33,293
to the institution that is

761
00:55:33,293 --> 00:55:34,253
creating the dollar.

762
00:55:35,153 --> 00:55:39,332
And so all of these, you know, why is the United States able to fund abortions in Africa?

763
00:55:39,533 --> 00:55:41,352
Because they can print the money out of thin air.

764
00:55:41,573 --> 00:55:45,013
Why are they able to fund endless wars for the last 50 years?

765
00:55:45,033 --> 00:55:48,352
Because they print the money out of thin air, and they're the only ones who can legally do that.

766
00:55:48,813 --> 00:55:53,533
And so the question that I would have for you is, again, I'm not saying this is an easy question,

767
00:55:54,013 --> 00:56:03,673
but at what point, I mean, should Christians be considering, again, there's a limit to what we can do with this.

768
00:56:03,673 --> 00:56:08,813
again, we have to pay taxes and dollars. Like I'm not trying to create this. I'm really not trying

769
00:56:08,813 --> 00:56:21,249
to put Christians in this impossible situation But one of the things I think about is like with Bitcoin is it is a nationless thing There no wars that can be fought with Bitcoin Bitcoin actually takes away

770
00:56:21,249 --> 00:56:26,089
the ability of governments to create more of this currency unit. So it effectively restrains

771
00:56:26,089 --> 00:56:30,429
government. And what I would argue is a way that God intends governments to be restrained.

772
00:56:30,889 --> 00:56:35,989
And so, you know, it's easy to look at some of these other companies and I applaud you for doing

773
00:56:35,989 --> 00:56:41,009
so. The one step further that I think a lot of the people who are principally, I would call them

774
00:56:41,009 --> 00:56:45,509
Christian Bitcoiners, we've kind of come to see that the dollar is just another one of these

775
00:56:45,509 --> 00:56:52,989
products that there are tremendous downsides to holding and lending legitimacy to. So I would love

776
00:56:52,989 --> 00:56:59,089
to kind of get your thoughts on that. Yeah. No, and amen to all the, again, the good that Bitcoin

777
00:56:59,089 --> 00:57:03,909
and similar crypto coins can do,

778
00:57:04,009 --> 00:57:07,789
giving people a legitimate, helpful alternative

779
00:57:07,789 --> 00:57:08,969
to places like Venezuela.

780
00:57:10,289 --> 00:57:11,689
So no disagreement there.

781
00:57:11,689 --> 00:57:14,749
I would push back on the,

782
00:57:15,009 --> 00:57:18,529
just sort of the inherent problems of the dollar.

783
00:57:20,729 --> 00:57:21,769
Does it have problems?

784
00:57:21,929 --> 00:57:22,089
Yes.

785
00:57:22,189 --> 00:57:23,309
Can governments have issues?

786
00:57:23,469 --> 00:57:23,669
Yes.

787
00:57:24,969 --> 00:57:26,369
God institutes governments.

788
00:57:26,869 --> 00:57:28,569
So I think one of the ditches

789
00:57:28,569 --> 00:57:30,229
we can fall into is that governments are evil.

790
00:57:30,609 --> 00:57:31,349
Governments are bad.

791
00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:32,949
Look what they do.

792
00:57:33,489 --> 00:57:34,449
Leviathan's terrible.

793
00:57:34,649 --> 00:57:35,409
It's a monster.

794
00:57:36,729 --> 00:57:39,929
And certainly governments have been monsters

795
00:57:39,929 --> 00:57:42,229
throughout history and, you know,

796
00:57:42,349 --> 00:57:43,789
currently, right now today.

797
00:57:44,509 --> 00:57:46,209
And there's aspects of our own government

798
00:57:46,209 --> 00:57:47,049
that are terrible.

799
00:57:49,029 --> 00:57:50,809
But if we throw them out,

800
00:57:51,249 --> 00:57:53,329
it doesn't mean that we're not left with a monster

801
00:57:53,329 --> 00:57:55,769
of untethered democracy, you know,

802
00:57:55,769 --> 00:57:58,549
like in the sense of like just rule by people.

803
00:57:58,569 --> 00:58:08,829
people without any you know governing authority so uh that's why we need godly rulers to wield the

804
00:58:08,829 --> 00:58:16,029
tools of the state of you know of the emperor so to speak in a godly way because when it's

805
00:58:16,029 --> 00:58:21,769
when the u.s dollar or any other currency similar to military weapons or technology

806
00:58:21,769 --> 00:58:28,329
is wielded for righteous purposes by righteous men uh righteousness results when the righteous

807
00:58:28,329 --> 00:58:36,429
rule the city rejoices right when the wicked then yep the opposite and uh so you know i i don't

808
00:58:36,429 --> 00:58:42,569
think bitcoin is the solution to immoral governments so and so when i hear those arguments

809
00:58:42,569 --> 00:58:48,829
that hey you know governments are evil look what they've done uh they own the currencies

810
00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:55,449
they control those currencies therefore we need to use bitcoin to solve that problem i don't think

811
00:58:55,449 --> 00:59:00,529
there's actually a connection there if we if we took away the currencies of the governments do we

812
00:59:00,529 --> 00:59:08,789
really think that an evil government would not find a way to to still you know push its problems

813
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:14,489
on the world i don't think that solves the issue i do agree that let's you know let's let's throw a

814
00:59:14,489 --> 00:59:19,169
little pebble in what we whatever we have to help again i'm not saying bitcoin's bad or we shouldn't

815
00:59:19,169 --> 00:59:26,949
do bitcoin or whatever else i think we need to have a um i'd say a level-minded uh view of what

816
00:59:26,949 --> 00:59:33,009
it is what it isn't what it's capable what it isn't capable of um and and be cautious about

817
00:59:33,009 --> 00:59:39,489
ascribing perhaps omnipotence to bitcoin you know yeah to be able to solve all of our economic

818
00:59:39,489 --> 00:59:43,969
problems because i don't think that's true and i'm not saying that's what you're saying but exactly

819
00:59:43,969 --> 00:59:55,169
But it can come across that way from folks who, particularly with a faith-based bent, who are very bullish on Bitcoin, again, can kind of leave some gaps there.

820
00:59:55,549 --> 01:00:02,589
And so that's where I just, I want to have the, let's consider the other side of that coin and just have a little more even keel.

821
01:00:03,289 --> 01:00:09,389
Yeah, no, my point would simply be all you have to do is look at history to see that the current path we're on fails.

822
01:00:09,389 --> 01:00:14,629
every single time fiat currencies like they start out every civilization you would ever want to be a

823
01:00:14,629 --> 01:00:20,809
part of starts with a scarce currency and then as that that enables them to build their empire

824
01:00:20,809 --> 01:00:26,469
and then the path to destruction is we start to debase the currency so i'm not trying to i'm not

825
01:00:26,469 --> 01:00:32,109
trying to say bitcoin is somehow this novel thing that we're hoping and praying is going to you know

826
01:00:32,109 --> 01:00:35,989
just be something novel like this is basically saying no no all we have to do is just look at

827
01:00:35,989 --> 01:00:41,109
history and see the path that we're on that leads to destruction. And Bitcoin, again, Bitcoin and

828
01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:46,289
gold, scarce, like scarce, scarce currencies are, are what we're going to return to over a long

829
01:00:46,289 --> 01:00:50,929
enough time horizon. This is what, because people wake once they, once it's just like the, um,

830
01:00:51,569 --> 01:00:56,169
it's Jesus's words where he says, those who are well have no need of a physician, right? It's easy

831
01:00:56,169 --> 01:01:00,729
to not see the importance of something when you're, when you're not sick and when, when you have the

832
01:01:00,729 --> 01:01:08,149
comfort and ease. But the reality is that the consistent historic witness is that you can't

833
01:01:08,149 --> 01:01:12,089
deny, and this is the scriptural principle that I would argue, it's denying sowing and reaping.

834
01:01:13,409 --> 01:01:18,729
Naked fiat currencies that are backed by nothing are governments denying God's principle of sowing

835
01:01:18,729 --> 01:01:23,949
and reaping by basically giving them God-like power. And so again, I'm not saying that Bitcoin

836
01:01:23,949 --> 01:01:28,629
is this panacea that's going to fix everything. It won't. But what I am saying is there's a reason

837
01:01:28,629 --> 01:01:33,709
why the founding fathers talked about the danger of fiat currency, the danger of paper money and

838
01:01:33,709 --> 01:01:38,169
the destruction that would reap on, you know, it would reap on mankind and that it had wrought on

839
01:01:38,169 --> 01:01:43,409
mankind. And so that's, that's all I'm literally just, it's, it's, we're just pointing, Hey,

840
01:01:43,509 --> 01:01:48,509
we're again, ironically, the, the novel, the Bitcoin, the digital currency guys are pointing

841
01:01:48,509 --> 01:01:53,269
back and going, Hey, let's learn from the past. Um, this, this is unsustainable. The path that

842
01:01:53,269 --> 01:01:58,189
we're on is unsustainable. At the same time, the, the, I don't think government is evil at all.

843
01:01:58,189 --> 01:02:23,809
I think government is a gift from God. The problem is it's basically be like the analogy that I've used multiple times and I think is far more accurate is right now the United States is a morbidly obese man. And so to a morbidly obese man, the conception of fasting for a day sounds unthinkable. It sounds unthinkable because like, well, how would I, you know, how would I survive this?

844
01:02:23,809 --> 01:02:42,189
And so again, the thing that it's mystifying to me and really discouraging, and I think Pastor Wilson is somebody who does a far better job than the vast majority of people, is when we look at Scripture, the repeated testimony of Scripture is that God has a problem with governments who want to be all-powerful.

845
01:02:42,189 --> 01:02:48,229
And to the point that we see the Hebrew midwives lie to a totalitarian pharaoh.

846
01:02:48,509 --> 01:02:51,449
We see him lie, and we see the repeated testimony.

847
01:02:51,589 --> 01:03:00,889
We see the wise men refuse to honor the leader of, I can't remember what it is, Herod, in the way that he requires.

848
01:03:01,249 --> 01:03:06,029
So again, my point is simply that government is not, they are not able to create their own job description.

849
01:03:06,529 --> 01:03:08,949
They have a job description that God has given to them.

850
01:03:08,949 --> 01:03:16,709
And that frequently in the end stage of empire, they want to get rid of, they want to cast off the restraints that God has put on them.

851
01:03:16,769 --> 01:03:17,489
This is Psalm 2.

852
01:03:18,169 --> 01:03:27,249
This is basic Psalm 2, where basically the governments of the nations basically say, hey, let's throw off the restraints that God has put on us.

853
01:03:27,789 --> 01:03:29,269
And so how does God respond?

854
01:03:30,129 --> 01:03:30,709
He laughs.

855
01:03:31,129 --> 01:03:35,549
He laughs at them and says, hey, I've got reality that you're not going to be able to cast off.

856
01:03:35,549 --> 01:03:48,249
And so one of the things that you talked about in this fantastic interview that I repeat, you should go watch, that all the audience should go watch is that God uses the foolish things of the world to shame the wise and the things that are not to bring to nothing the things that are.

857
01:03:48,769 --> 01:03:51,989
And so it is just so appropriate and so humorous in my mind.

858
01:03:52,029 --> 01:03:53,029
I laugh about it regularly.

859
01:03:53,449 --> 01:03:58,649
The fact that the most powerful tool that nations have is their people.

860
01:03:59,109 --> 01:04:04,629
But as they drink their own Kool-Aid, the most powerful instruments that nations have is their currencies.

861
01:04:04,629 --> 01:04:27,749
And so as they continue to debase their currencies and those currencies become weaker and weaker and weaker in that vacuum, God has in his humor chosen to like chosen to like we've seen the advent of this thing of Bitcoin, this foolish, you know, basically decentralized open source Internet project.

862
01:04:27,749 --> 01:04:33,629
Like now it is as of right now, I believe the fifth largest currency on Earth. That is hilarious to me.

863
01:04:33,629 --> 01:04:52,229
And it's just an illustration of what happens, you know, of the fact that like, again, you can't deny reality forever. And so what I see is not getting rid of governments. What I see is it's like a restraining, it's like a discipling, if we could borrow that, like it's a restraining government.

864
01:04:52,229 --> 01:05:04,469
It's reteaching governments and it's reteaching people about this question of like these foundational questions that have just been easy to throw off in the name of expediency of like, well, what is money?

865
01:05:05,189 --> 01:05:06,769
You know, what is the point of this?

866
01:05:06,849 --> 01:05:07,629
Why does this exist?

867
01:05:07,809 --> 01:05:11,449
Why have certain things worked and been valued?

868
01:05:11,449 --> 01:05:16,269
and why have people all throughout the history of the church and human history,

869
01:05:16,329 --> 01:05:17,349
going back to John Calvin,

870
01:05:18,809 --> 01:05:22,589
there's a 15th century Catholic bishop named Nicholas Eresme

871
01:05:22,589 --> 01:05:25,309
who talked about the ethics of money production.

872
01:05:25,949 --> 01:05:28,249
And so why have there been Christians who've recognized this?

873
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:30,049
Why have we drifted so far from this?

874
01:05:30,049 --> 01:05:35,009
And so a lot of these conversations have been brought back into the public sphere

875
01:05:35,009 --> 01:05:37,889
by, of all insane things, Bitcoin.

876
01:05:37,889 --> 01:05:44,189
uh i i just think that's an incredible an incredible development to have happen um yeah

877
01:05:44,189 --> 01:05:49,009
yeah and that whole you know it's basically giving competition putting competition into the

878
01:05:49,009 --> 01:05:54,629
currency market right correct what it is doing and it breaks the monopoly and it allows competition

879
01:05:54,629 --> 01:05:59,949
so that's that's a again a good thing that's a different thing than is it a good investment

880
01:05:59,949 --> 01:06:06,389
though right so again just kind of bringing that back to uh that question so if if we're

881
01:06:06,389 --> 01:06:15,609
investing in Bitcoin or buying Bitcoin to, you know, sort of help this system come on,

882
01:06:15,729 --> 01:06:21,249
you know, come along and, you know, usher something, you know, redemptive into the world.

883
01:06:21,369 --> 01:06:27,109
It's a wonderful motivation, but I would also differentiate that from an investment thesis.

884
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:34,229
So there's a motivation, but what is a fair value for Bitcoin? Is $115,000, or I think it's

885
01:06:34,229 --> 01:06:40,069
something like that today. Is that a fair value? That's the question that I think a lot of

886
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:48,349
investors struggle with. And frankly, I do think Bitcoin, at least today, is primarily a speculation

887
01:06:48,349 --> 01:06:55,169
market. Trying to put a valuation on something like Bitcoin, you can put a valuation on a company

888
01:06:55,169 --> 01:06:59,309
that has revenues and products and inventories and all those things and know what, you know,

889
01:06:59,369 --> 01:07:04,049
maybe what a book value is worth or what have you, or apply multiple to the earnings or lots

890
01:07:04,049 --> 01:07:09,029
of different ways to go about valuing an asset of a but you can't do the same thing on bitcoin

891
01:07:09,029 --> 01:07:15,989
and you have people like michael saylor and you know his strategy uh company uh buying

892
01:07:15,989 --> 01:07:21,849
you know thousands and tens of thousands of bitcoin you know certain a month and what happens

893
01:07:21,849 --> 01:07:28,189
if they stop uh-huh or when they stop right what happens to the price what is it you know in a in a

894
01:07:28,189 --> 01:07:33,849
In a stock, new money can stop coming into the company stock.

895
01:07:34,089 --> 01:07:40,609
New money doesn't have to continue coming for that stock to maintain a value because the underlying asset has a value.

896
01:07:40,609 --> 01:07:55,749
If new money stops coming into the Bitcoin market, I think you have a ridiculously precipitous drop in the price of Bitcoin that will spin the heads of any – it would be faster and larger than anybody could ever think could happen.

897
01:07:55,749 --> 01:08:01,269
but because there is so much new money coming in right i mean so we don't have that established

898
01:08:01,269 --> 01:08:09,249
secondary market um to support current prices it seems uh the underlying value of bitcoin is is

899
01:08:09,249 --> 01:08:13,889
really a speculation like is it worth this or is it worth that i don't know are you familiar with

900
01:08:13,889 --> 01:08:18,329
the difficulty adjustment and the having the having cycle i guess the having cycle is more

901
01:08:18,329 --> 01:08:23,029
relevant yes the having cycle the difficulty adjustment uh you're talking about the mining

902
01:08:23,029 --> 01:08:23,909
and it makes, you know,

903
01:08:23,929 --> 01:08:24,849
it make it harder to mine.

904
01:08:24,949 --> 01:08:26,029
Certainly I know all those things

905
01:08:26,029 --> 01:08:27,149
and there's, you can,

906
01:08:27,489 --> 01:08:28,149
but still like you,

907
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:30,129
you can look at the scarcity

908
01:08:30,129 --> 01:08:32,009
and say, here's how many are available,

909
01:08:32,009 --> 01:08:35,509
but how do you get that to a dollar price?

910
01:08:36,669 --> 01:08:37,609
So the question is,

911
01:08:37,689 --> 01:08:39,289
why does it have to have a dollar price?

912
01:08:39,389 --> 01:08:40,409
Like that, like the idea that,

913
01:08:40,589 --> 01:08:42,469
because this is, this is the other thing is,

914
01:08:42,469 --> 01:08:45,169
so people act like Bitcoin's volatility

915
01:08:45,169 --> 01:08:46,969
is Bitcoin's fault somehow.

916
01:08:47,489 --> 01:08:48,549
When it's like there,

917
01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:50,729
the dollar has lost 99% of its value

918
01:08:50,729 --> 01:08:51,669
over the last hundred years.

919
01:08:51,669 --> 01:09:04,869
You know, like when COVID, when the COVID crash happened, you had somewhere like some, again, the numbers range, but it was like anywhere from like 40 to 80% of all the dollars that have ever existed were created when they dropped stimulus checks.

920
01:09:05,389 --> 01:09:05,429
Sure.

921
01:09:05,549 --> 01:09:09,749
So, I mean, so this is, some of this has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

922
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:12,129
In fact, I would say none of it does.

923
01:09:12,569 --> 01:09:15,649
These are standard financial market principles of investment, right?

924
01:09:15,649 --> 01:09:21,469
So the fact that Bitcoin is volatile is not a black mark on something that's unique to Bitcoin, right?

925
01:09:21,469 --> 01:09:44,649
Yes. And I know when I talk to folks like yourself, you're very bullish on it, very experts. I mean, it's like somebody calling your baby ugly or whatever. Like babies puke. Okay. But that's, I mean, all babies do. All right. That's just a baby thing and it could be cute. And maybe that's why some people like to have babies. I don't know. But so volatility is not this inherent flaw in Bitcoin, but it is a real fact for an investor to consider.

926
01:09:44,649 --> 01:10:07,429
Sure. And my point is have a dollar price because everyone I'm talking to, that's what they have to buy is spend. Right. They have dollars. They don't have something else they can trade for Bitcoin. And so when they're looking at I've got one hundred thousand dollars in my IRA and I need to know, is it one appropriate for me to buy any Bitcoin based on my goals and my risk tolerance and whatnot?

927
01:10:07,429 --> 01:10:28,949
And if so, how much? And if so, let's say I can afford $10,000 of something of that sort along with my portfolio, what price would be smart to buy it at? Because those are all decisions I need to know. So you typically have a price target. I think it's worth this much. Hopefully we can buy it for less than that. Maybe we're going to dollar cost that average in.

928
01:10:28,949 --> 01:10:38,429
And those questions are very difficult, if not impossible, to explain with any speculative asset, which I put Bitcoin into that at this present point in time.

929
01:10:38,769 --> 01:10:44,849
You can speculate like now. I'm not saying nobody should ever speculate. That's how new things come to come to life.

930
01:10:45,269 --> 01:10:57,929
But you do need to realize it is speculation. And so for an investor, how much of your portfolio are you comfortable and would prudence tell you can put into a speculative asset?

931
01:10:57,929 --> 01:11:04,249
and the motivation to support something wonderful and as redemptive as bitcoin can be is a good

932
01:11:04,249 --> 01:11:08,669
motivation now let's make a wise financial decision about how much to put in at what price you might

933
01:11:08,669 --> 01:11:15,169
want to put it in at uh all those sorts of things which uh are just really difficult with something

934
01:11:15,169 --> 01:11:23,909
like bitcoin that that has really a um sort of a yeah unknowable value in its current form yeah

935
01:11:23,909 --> 01:11:27,049
I think, again, the problem that I have, though, is the volatility.

936
01:11:27,329 --> 01:11:29,129
Like, people, again, people have the special pleading.

937
01:11:29,289 --> 01:11:31,869
They apply one standard to Bitcoin, the volatility of Bitcoin.

938
01:11:32,229 --> 01:11:37,409
Like, I'm sorry, it's impossible for the operating supply of Bitcoin to double.

939
01:11:37,729 --> 01:11:42,329
Like, there's nothing preventing the supply of dollars from doubling in the next five minutes.

940
01:11:42,549 --> 01:11:42,749
Sure.

941
01:11:42,869 --> 01:11:53,409
Like, there could be some emergency that would come along that would, which the government could justify, even over the short term, like, create, like, doubling, tripling, 100xing the number of dollars.

942
01:11:53,409 --> 01:12:00,049
in circulation. And so that, that seems again, if we're trying to apply this equal, this equal

943
01:12:00,049 --> 01:12:05,089
standard, like that seems to me incredibly risky. That seems to me. So Bitcoin beach, you know,

944
01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:09,749
I would compare that to like the whole Bitcoin beach story, which I assume people are familiar

945
01:12:09,749 --> 01:12:15,969
with watching this podcast. You know, Bitcoin's volatile, but because they have a closed system,

946
01:12:15,969 --> 01:12:18,909
it doesn't really matter if it goes up, goes down, whatever, because they're just trading

947
01:12:18,909 --> 01:12:22,849
Bitcoins with each other, right? You have the same denominator for, you know, buy a bottle of

948
01:12:22,849 --> 01:12:29,229
from somebody and it's in bitcoins it's fine um so similarly here in america we've got dollars

949
01:12:29,229 --> 01:12:33,869
for the better or worse like we here we are we have dollars so we can go up low down we can trade

950
01:12:33,869 --> 01:12:40,229
with each other um and so there is a there is an aspect of similarity there uh and because of the

951
01:12:40,229 --> 01:12:47,529
u.s dollar is you know a denominator for a lot of business transactions and you know economic power

952
01:12:47,529 --> 01:12:54,089
on the world you know not that it doesn't have problems but uh there you know you got to consider

953
01:12:54,089 --> 01:12:59,729
that bitcoin doesn't have that same it's that that same uh benefit currently but in either of

954
01:12:59,729 --> 01:13:04,689
those cases the volatility aside uh really just the value even if it was just a stable value for

955
01:13:04,689 --> 01:13:10,229
right now like it doesn't have to go up and down all all wacky but just seeing how what is it worth

956
01:13:10,229 --> 01:13:14,829
right so if i were to ask you i'm really kind of curious the answer you'd have is yeah what is what

957
01:13:14,829 --> 01:13:20,529
is one Bitcoin worth? Yeah. And so my answer to that would be, so again, there's a few different

958
01:13:20,529 --> 01:13:24,649
layers on which I would answer that question. So again, there's immediate term answers. So here,

959
01:13:24,749 --> 01:13:29,049
and this is a question I pose. This is an issue that I raised to Pastor Wilson when I interviewed

960
01:13:29,049 --> 01:13:34,109
him on our podcast. I asked him, I said, I've been thinking about you guys in Moscow in relation to

961
01:13:34,109 --> 01:13:39,189
Bitcoin for years, because again, you guys don't shrink from preaching the whole counsel of God.

962
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:50,149
And in the world that we lived in, this is 2020 to 2024, in the world we live in, we live in a world where it's totally conceivable that a government could listen to one of your sermons.

963
01:13:50,989 --> 01:13:57,349
A state government or a national government could hear one of your sermons and declare you an enemy of the state, debank you.

964
01:13:57,709 --> 01:14:00,269
Now, again, over the long term, you're probably going to win.

965
01:14:00,649 --> 01:14:02,809
The courts have been largely a bastion of sanity.

966
01:14:03,309 --> 01:14:05,789
But in the short term, they could debank you.

967
01:14:05,829 --> 01:14:07,429
This is what happened with the Canadian truckers.

968
01:14:07,429 --> 01:14:14,289
and so what is the value of being able to access your money like what is that worth to you what is

969
01:14:14,289 --> 01:14:18,589
it worth to be able to pay yourself even if you can say bitcoin is volatile well what's it it's

970
01:14:18,589 --> 01:14:24,449
you know i'd rather have something that can be volatile 20 to 30 percent and and still be have

971
01:14:24,449 --> 01:14:30,349
access to it than not have access to something that is even like artificially only going up at

972
01:14:30,349 --> 01:14:35,309
three percent or four percent whatever the cpi says that the inflation rate is um so again i think

973
01:14:35,309 --> 01:14:40,089
that these are the more relevant questions. We're not in just some sort of normal, stable

974
01:14:40,089 --> 01:14:47,009
ploid of history. We're at a point where there are actual threats that you have to take into

975
01:14:47,009 --> 01:14:51,289
consideration, especially given if you're operating a business or if you're operating,

976
01:14:51,549 --> 01:14:57,349
again, missions organizations. I have talked to dozens of missions organizations who are already

977
01:14:57,349 --> 01:14:59,869
or are investigating using Bitcoin.

978
01:14:59,905 --> 01:15:05,305
to move money across the world to places that don't have the SWIFT system because of the United

979
01:15:05,305 --> 01:15:10,845
States has warred in these places. They don't want to risk dollars going to terrorism. And so

980
01:15:10,845 --> 01:15:15,525
they don't allow that. Bitcoin can go anywhere. You can't stop Bitcoin. And so again, I think

981
01:15:15,525 --> 01:15:20,225
there's a hundred different things to take into account. I think another, if kind of getting at

982
01:15:20,225 --> 01:15:25,385
what I think you're actually getting at is, so what is the total addressable market of Bitcoin?

983
01:15:25,385 --> 01:15:28,385
Well, it's literally – and who is the audience?

984
01:15:28,745 --> 01:15:33,285
Well, it's anybody who has their currency being devalued by their government who has access to the internet.

985
01:15:34,185 --> 01:15:36,965
And so that's about 5 billion people right now.

986
01:15:37,765 --> 01:15:51,565
Now, again, what is it worth to Russia to not have to buy the treasuries, the U.S. treasury bonds, from a country that is, you could argue, unfairly targeting them in a whole host of ways for partisan reasons?

987
01:15:51,565 --> 01:15:52,625
Or vice versa.

988
01:15:52,845 --> 01:15:54,165
Why would the United States –

989
01:15:54,165 --> 01:16:03,485
There's a whole bunch of reasons why there should be, why it would make sense for there to be a desire for a neutral reserve asset.

990
01:16:03,945 --> 01:16:05,205
These are not novel reasons.

991
01:16:05,325 --> 01:16:06,305
This is all throughout history.

992
01:16:06,425 --> 01:16:16,265
This is why gold has been desired is because it is a neutral asset that doesn't require subscribing to somebody else's arbitrary valuation.

993
01:16:16,565 --> 01:16:17,445
This is why.

994
01:16:17,825 --> 01:16:20,805
And I think that we're rediscovering all of these things right now.

995
01:16:20,865 --> 01:16:22,945
The world is going through a process of rediscovery.

996
01:16:22,945 --> 01:16:32,005
This is why last week we saw that for the first time in 30 years, foreign nations, foreign governments are holding more gold than they are treasuries.

997
01:16:32,705 --> 01:16:45,405
Again, I think we are in a dramatic repricing and a reawakening of the reality and the need to have the need for scarcity to be one component of money.

998
01:16:45,665 --> 01:16:50,465
So would it matter what price?

999
01:16:50,465 --> 01:16:52,465
I hear the.

1000
01:16:52,465 --> 01:16:53,705
to hear the question like,

1001
01:16:53,785 --> 01:16:55,605
well, what is it worth for somebody in those situations?

1002
01:16:56,125 --> 01:16:56,485
Sure.

1003
01:16:56,585 --> 01:16:57,565
But really, what is it worth?

1004
01:16:57,665 --> 01:16:59,485
I mean, are you saying that you should just buy Bitcoin

1005
01:16:59,485 --> 01:17:00,125
at any price?

1006
01:17:00,185 --> 01:17:02,105
It doesn't really matter because the market is so large?

1007
01:17:02,605 --> 01:17:04,705
And so again, I think that you have to ask

1008
01:17:04,705 --> 01:17:06,685
the further question is, who are you talking to?

1009
01:17:07,025 --> 01:17:09,605
If I'm one of my Venezuelan brothers and sisters

1010
01:17:09,605 --> 01:17:12,725
whose currency is being devalued at 100% daily,

1011
01:17:13,285 --> 01:17:16,325
then for them, they are price neutral Bitcoin buyers.

1012
01:17:16,685 --> 01:17:18,725
Like they are, because Bitcoin for them

1013
01:17:18,725 --> 01:17:20,505
is less volatile than their situation.

1014
01:17:20,505 --> 01:17:22,405
So let's assume we're talking to everyday Americans

1015
01:17:22,405 --> 01:17:23,465
with retirement accounts.

1016
01:17:23,465 --> 01:17:24,365
Yes, yes.

1017
01:17:24,505 --> 01:17:25,525
And so again,

1018
01:17:25,625 --> 01:17:39,230
then it depends on what time horizon we talking about because I mean at this point the case against Bitcoin I just don understand it It like you have the largest companies on earth BlackRock who has their ETF which is more value

1019
01:17:39,230 --> 01:17:43,630
They made more money from their Bitcoin ETF than they did their S&P 500 ETF in the last few months.

1020
01:17:44,130 --> 01:17:46,050
So you have the president of the United States.

1021
01:17:46,450 --> 01:17:48,390
You have the United States holds Bitcoin.

1022
01:17:49,150 --> 01:17:51,870
Like all of the largest, many of the largest, Tesla owns Bitcoin.

1023
01:17:51,870 --> 01:17:57,830
A lot of the largest companies, even if you're just looking at, you're only thinking in dollar-denominated returns.

1024
01:17:58,390 --> 01:18:02,350
The case against Bitcoin at this point, I just don't see it.

1025
01:18:02,530 --> 01:18:11,530
My case against it is that when new money stops flowing in, as far as it's gone up, it can go just as far down.

1026
01:18:11,670 --> 01:18:16,490
We're going to find any developed market, you see that interplay, right?

1027
01:18:16,490 --> 01:18:39,210
And there will be an equilibrium that Bitcoin will eventually mature and relatively stabilize around some sort of number. I don't know if that's $115,000 or $25,000 or $5,000 or $500,000. And so that's the question I can't answer. And I haven't heard anybody being able to answer that question. I hear your point. The market's huge, all those things.

1028
01:18:39,210 --> 01:19:05,510
But just like gold's not $115,000 an ounce and the market is, you know, ostensibly the same, right? I mean, so there still is a true value that has not been identified. And I am incredibly skeptical just knowing that the reason why Bitcoin's up, what is it, 90% over the past year is because new money's coming in.

1029
01:19:05,510 --> 01:19:10,810
But when that stops, what happens and where do we find equilibrium? That's what I don't know.

1030
01:19:11,410 --> 01:19:17,250
And here's the question that I would ask, though, is honestly, I mean, because you have with BlackRock, for example, why are they buying Bitcoin?

1031
01:19:17,570 --> 01:19:21,830
Because they have a wall of money that's flowing into them every month that they have to do something with.

1032
01:19:22,370 --> 01:19:24,650
And so if it stopped going up, they would sell their Bitcoin.

1033
01:19:24,910 --> 01:19:35,490
So that's the other thing. When it stopped, when entities like that and strategy and all those guys, when they stop making money, as much money could still be going.

1034
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:40,730
and they start saying, well, I'm going to cut some of my gains and, you know, take some at the table.

1035
01:19:42,110 --> 01:19:44,490
I mean, that's how a top forms in a market.

1036
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:49,810
And so, so currently my view is it's in a speculation phase.

1037
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:52,850
There's risk there for various reasons.

1038
01:19:53,390 --> 01:20:07,314
I you know I don disagree with all of the redemptive benefits that Bitcoin could bring to the world And I pray that it you know that those things do materialize in a greater fashion Uh when I giving advice to people should I well then should I buy it

1039
01:20:08,874 --> 01:20:13,534
Depends, right? And so right now, speculation, maybe a little bit, something you're comfortable

1040
01:20:13,534 --> 01:20:17,774
losing, you know, 50% or more of your money over the next year, if it, if it just, you know,

1041
01:20:17,814 --> 01:20:25,414
corrects or whatnot. Um, and, uh, you know, and ideally we're able to really have a stronger

1042
01:20:25,414 --> 01:20:28,454
valuation component, see that equilibrium.

1043
01:20:28,694 --> 01:20:36,114
And then I think that point, when that market matures and you can actually ascribe reasonable

1044
01:20:36,114 --> 01:20:40,854
figure to, you know, the price of a Bitcoin should cost about this much money for these

1045
01:20:40,854 --> 01:20:41,354
reasons.

1046
01:20:41,354 --> 01:20:45,714
And you can draw a really clear connection like you do in other mature markets.

1047
01:20:46,474 --> 01:20:50,994
Then I think Bitcoin can really blossom into all the things you're saying.

1048
01:20:51,594 --> 01:20:54,774
And because not speculation goes into a more mature market.

1049
01:20:54,774 --> 01:20:55,634
I don't think we're there yet.

1050
01:20:56,074 --> 01:20:57,514
And so that's where my caution comes from.

1051
01:20:57,914 --> 01:20:59,334
But yeah, so.

1052
01:21:00,074 --> 01:21:00,934
I understand caution.

1053
01:21:01,074 --> 01:21:02,194
And this will be your last question

1054
01:21:02,194 --> 01:21:02,654
because you've got to,

1055
01:21:02,694 --> 01:21:03,734
I want to honor your time.

1056
01:21:03,814 --> 01:21:05,274
You've been super generous with us so far.

1057
01:21:05,634 --> 01:21:06,994
I mean, do you, I mean, is there,

1058
01:21:07,554 --> 01:21:09,034
I guess, how would you weigh,

1059
01:21:09,194 --> 01:21:10,374
this will be our final question.

1060
01:21:10,534 --> 01:21:11,074
How would, like,

1061
01:21:11,214 --> 01:21:13,174
at what price would you be a buyer of Bitcoin?

1062
01:21:14,174 --> 01:21:15,514
Or what would you need in order to feel comfortable?

1063
01:21:15,514 --> 01:21:16,794
Personally, or, you know,

1064
01:21:17,114 --> 01:21:17,994
recommending people,

1065
01:21:17,994 --> 01:21:19,714
there's no single price I would recommend

1066
01:21:19,714 --> 01:21:21,954
any particular person to buy Bitcoin.

1067
01:21:22,074 --> 01:21:23,174
It depends on their situation.

1068
01:21:24,174 --> 01:21:24,574
Personally.

1069
01:21:24,774 --> 01:21:30,634
So I think $115,000 is too high unless I'm trading Bitcoin.

1070
01:21:31,114 --> 01:21:33,754
Like I'll trade Bitcoin at any price, right?

1071
01:21:33,954 --> 01:21:39,494
You know, in and out, what have you, stop losses, just like I would with any asset.

1072
01:21:40,134 --> 01:21:44,274
I think as a long-term hold, I would expect prices to come down at least half.

1073
01:21:45,934 --> 01:21:47,534
So you think we're going to see $75,000?

1074
01:21:48,834 --> 01:21:50,294
I think that would be the point.

1075
01:21:50,294 --> 01:21:52,434
if I was considering a long-term buy,

1076
01:21:52,994 --> 01:21:55,334
that's when I would start thinking about it,

1077
01:21:55,374 --> 01:21:56,774
and I might even look lower.

1078
01:21:56,994 --> 01:21:58,214
I think, again, the strategy,

1079
01:21:58,594 --> 01:22:00,934
their cost basis is about $75,000 right now.

1080
01:22:03,094 --> 01:22:04,594
They're slowing down their buying.

1081
01:22:04,754 --> 01:22:06,414
I mean, so those, and it tells me

1082
01:22:06,414 --> 01:22:08,014
I might be right about that,

1083
01:22:08,054 --> 01:22:09,314
but they know a lot about what they're doing.

1084
01:22:09,894 --> 01:22:11,134
But it wouldn't surprise me

1085
01:22:11,134 --> 01:22:13,454
if you got things that did below that.

1086
01:22:13,754 --> 01:22:14,794
So I would expect things that,

1087
01:22:15,274 --> 01:22:17,014
you know, just, this is, again, speculation.

1088
01:22:17,354 --> 01:22:17,934
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1089
01:22:18,574 --> 01:22:20,174
Half the price that we are now,

1090
01:22:20,294 --> 01:22:25,014
75-ish, could be a reasonable price.

1091
01:22:25,014 --> 01:22:27,794
I would look for buying opportunities,

1092
01:22:27,794 --> 01:22:39,319
maybe around 50 or hopefully lower to really make sure as they right Here a question for you So Leslie I lied So last question But like so when Bitcoin went from 69

1093
01:22:39,319 --> 01:22:41,079
to about 16,000,

1094
01:22:41,859 --> 01:22:44,539
is this thesis, what you just articulated,

1095
01:22:44,679 --> 01:22:46,379
is that a relatively new thing

1096
01:22:46,379 --> 01:22:48,739
as a result of BlackRock and some of these other things?

1097
01:22:49,099 --> 01:22:50,179
Like that's new information.

1098
01:22:50,699 --> 01:22:52,539
Because like, I mean, Bitcoin dropped down,

1099
01:22:53,519 --> 01:22:54,359
you know, whatever, it went,

1100
01:22:54,639 --> 01:22:56,739
you know, dropped 75% or whatever it was.

1101
01:22:56,739 --> 01:22:59,939
and I'm thinking you're saying

1102
01:22:59,939 --> 01:23:01,059
you didn't buy any at that point.

1103
01:23:01,219 --> 01:23:03,039
So is this a new development

1104
01:23:03,039 --> 01:23:04,479
or what was different?

1105
01:23:04,579 --> 01:23:05,379
Why didn't you buy it

1106
01:23:05,379 --> 01:23:06,999
when it dropped precipitously?

1107
01:23:07,299 --> 01:23:08,639
Why didn't you see that

1108
01:23:08,639 --> 01:23:09,859
as a good buying opportunity for Bitcoin?

1109
01:23:10,139 --> 01:23:11,499
Well, whether I did or didn't buy things

1110
01:23:11,499 --> 01:23:12,059
at a different price,

1111
01:23:12,159 --> 01:23:14,039
I'll leave that unanswered.

1112
01:23:14,059 --> 01:23:14,699
Oh, I like it.

1113
01:23:14,799 --> 01:23:15,179
I like it.

1114
01:23:15,419 --> 01:23:19,959
But in a speculative market,

1115
01:23:20,299 --> 01:23:22,019
you have, I mean, things change, right?

1116
01:23:22,079 --> 01:23:23,999
And so if in six months

1117
01:23:23,999 --> 01:23:25,039
we get to $75,000,

1118
01:23:25,039 --> 01:23:29,039
I reserve the right to reassess and say, well, why did we get there?

1119
01:23:29,579 --> 01:23:30,859
Like maybe we do good.

1120
01:23:30,959 --> 01:23:37,099
So like right now today with all that I can see, that's probably when I would start considering

1121
01:23:37,099 --> 01:23:42,519
building a longer term position, assuming all the factors were relatively unchanged.

1122
01:23:43,079 --> 01:23:47,999
And I think if you go back several years, you don't have, I guess, a speculative market,

1123
01:23:48,099 --> 01:23:49,439
even more speculative back then.

1124
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:56,799
and um you know so it's that's the nature of things that that you can't really uh mathematically

1125
01:23:56,799 --> 01:24:05,059
attribute a price to a value to um you just kind of it's a finger in the air kind of thing and you

1126
01:24:05,059 --> 01:24:10,019
really do have to be a trader at some level you do have to not be an investor but a trader and

1127
01:24:10,019 --> 01:24:14,279
there's that means that there's an exit price and a buying price and there's you know that's how i

1128
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:19,979
would approach it myself if I was going about this, unless I had a whole crap ton of money,

1129
01:24:20,139 --> 01:24:24,319
like a Michael Saylor or somebody like that. Like, you know what? His money that he's willing

1130
01:24:24,319 --> 01:24:27,959
to put at risk is a whole lot more than the money I'm willing to put my money at risk.

1131
01:24:28,339 --> 01:24:33,359
So this has been a great conversation, Jordan. I really appreciate you. Again, go listen to the

1132
01:24:33,359 --> 01:24:39,439
interview. Go grab the book. There's a lot of good stuff to glean. So Mr. Netsley, grateful for you

1133
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:44,079
and would love to have you back at some point in the future. Hopefully we'll wait until you buy

1134
01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,079
Bitcoin and then we can talk about what made your decision.

1135
01:24:46,639 --> 01:24:47,559
All right. God bless.

1136
01:24:47,659 --> 01:24:48,819
All right. Lord bless.