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I was forged in the bear market, man, and nothing can phase me now.

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Founder of the Bitcoin way, Tony Yazbek.

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Completely no-nonsense type of guy, and after my wife,

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I reckon he's one of my favorite people on planet Earth.

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No one is operating in the interest of the American people.

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Only way out is to opt out.

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A lot of people in Australia are like, oh, that'll never happen here.

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In the last five years, we've lost 50% of our purchasing power already.

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I have been completely radicalized in so many ways.

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It's sovereign money, it's freedom money.

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But Bitcoin is only valuable if you hold in self-custody.

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Like, not your keys, not your coins.

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Bitcoin is like having a key to the chains that have found you for your whole life.

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And they're going to try to tighten the chains and hope that you don't find the key.

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And I think what that means is...

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G'day, legends. Welcome back to G'day, Bitcoin.

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I'm your host, Sean.

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joining us today, very special guest. We have Michael Jordan, host of the Bitcoin Way podcast.

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He's also recently up on the main stage at Bitcoin Prague. Michael Jordan, how are you, brother?

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I'm doing great. How are you, Sean? Yeah, very, very well. This episode is going to be a little

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bit of meta, but for anyone that's interested in Bitcoin, maybe talking about Bitcoin, working

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within Bitcoin, speaking, educating about Bitcoin, mentoring in regards to Bitcoin, we're going to

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dive deep but first off you've only been in bitcoin for a couple of short years was it 2020

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that you entered the space even newer man 2022 i was bloody hell baby exactly i was uh i was forged

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in the bear market man and nothing can uh can phase me now i saw like i was in the early days

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of my journey when ftx celsius you know uh blockfi all of them started collapsing so uh i'm unshakable

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at this point. Dude, I love it. So did you come in sort of just before that happened? So Bitcoin

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was up and then you went through that brutal bear market? So I came, well, I couldn't pinpoint

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exactly like the moment I became a Bitcoiner, certainly not like a Bitcoin maxi. I literally

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started on January 1st of that year studying sort of crypto, blockchain. I've read some horribly

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boring books on blockchain and I was fortunate. I had someone who sort of nudged me in the right

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direction right before I began my journey and gave me some people to Lynn Alden, Preston Pish

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told me to listen to Preston's podcast. Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's anyone else that stood

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out. I know I read the Bitcoin standard within, I don't know, a few months of the beginning of the

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year and it became pretty evident. I think it was when Celsius and one of the others collapsed,

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maybe in like May of that year.

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Yeah.

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I think Celsius and BlockFi were about the same time.

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Okay.

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So maybe it was those two.

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And I had seen a couple of people like Bitcoin maxis predicting it and saying like, this is

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a scam.

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It can't work.

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And then when the dominoes started to fall, I had to step back and, you know, I guess the

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Bitcoiners are right about all this.

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Completely started ignoring all the other crypto nonsense, went full in on Bitcoin and

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been chasing hard after more Bitcoin knowledge ever since.

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Yeah.

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And something I think that you've done incredibly effectively

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is being in Bitcoin for three years now.

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You've been working in Bitcoin for the last couple of years,

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the last two years now for the Bitcoin way.

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That's pretty incredible because at least for me,

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went down the rabbit hole.

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We're reading all the books, watching, you know, six to eight hours worth of podcasts per day while I was employed, driving around.

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And I was like, this thing is amazing.

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This is life changing.

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And I was like, I want to work within Bitcoin or I want to be able to contribute.

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So I started the podcast and I was talking about shit coins at the start as well as Bitcoin.

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I'm glad that didn't last for too long.

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What a distraction.

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But I see it all the time and I have so many subscribers and stuff message and be like, hey, Sean, are you free for a chat?

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I'm like, yeah, of course, let's touch base, no issue.

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And nine times out of 10, they're like, how do I work in Bitcoin?

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I'm like, there's not a hell of a lot of jobs,

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but what are your skillset and where can you be able to provide value?

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But I guess coming back to you on this,

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where the matter of the conversation is going to start,

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is how did you get a job within Bitcoin?

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But let alone, how did you get a job with the Bitcoin way?

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The way that I see it is the best company literally in the world

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to be able to teach people how to secure their Bitcoin.

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I don't know if there's any company that's better

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than what Tony and yourselves and the team at the Bitcoin Way do.

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So I guess like number one, what made you want to pursue a job

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or a career working within Bitcoin?

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And then two, how did it come about with specifically the Bitcoin Way?

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Yeah, well, it was serendipitous to say the least.

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I got lucky.

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So I was a client of the Bitcoin Way.

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So I guess it would have been the beginning of 24.

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I started working with them.

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I kind of gone through this whole, you know, I kept my keys on Coinbase and I found a better exchange, kept my keys there.

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And then I moved my coins to like a collaborative custody.

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I don't know.

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And it just became evident I was compromising on the custody and heard Tony, as you can imagine, on that podcast.

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I think it was David's podcast and realized, OK, this I just need training.

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I need someone to just teach me how to do this the right way.

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I have a semi-technical background, but I wasn't going to gamble with generational wealth and try figuring that out on my own if there was someone who does this day in and day out.

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So I was going through the process of being trained on how to take self-custody.

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And fortunately, I'd subscribed to the Bitcoiner Jobs newsletter.

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My background is in sales, so I had subscribed for, I guess, like the sales-related positions.

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they were looking at the time to form like a sort of a decentralized sales team basically

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and they got a ton of applications coming in all at once you know i threw my name into the hat and

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i reached out to them privately because i was emailing with them anyways as their client and

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i said hey you know i'm working with you guys love the process would be i've got sales experience i

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was leading the sales team at an ai startup at the time you know would love to talk about this

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And so they took a call with me and pretty quickly they said, hey, we'd love for you to be like the sales manager.

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Like we've got so many people doing this.

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I said, sounds good.

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You know, like, can I can I give my employer two weeks notice and just, you know, out of respect.

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And the way that we'd sort of structured it at the time didn't end up working as we had quite hoped.

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We've we've kind of made some improvements as to how we do that now.

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so i was left standing with not exactly the role that i'd thought but at the very beginning they

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said hey could you start the start a podcast for us hey could you and they just started like you

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know coming up with other other small startup you just do everything yeah and and we still do in

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many ways so you know i'm working closely with marketing i'm uh i'm helping with our hiring

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process now so i don't when someone comes to me and says hey you work in bitcoin how do you go

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work in Bitcoin. I don't have any real tangible advice because I just tripped into it. I mean,

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God ordained is the only way I can describe what happened. What I will say is as I've gone through

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the process of hiring and trying to help us onboard people, I think there are, if you're

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looking to work for the Bitcoin ways specifically, there are things that you can do to stand out.

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and is if you if there is any detection of nonsense shit coining compromise on the types of

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hardware that you like or play around with or anything like that i mean that's a red flag for

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us we're not interested there are enough people who are you know who are focused on the mission

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and the philosophy of the bitcoin way that we can find those people and those are the only ones we

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want to work with yeah yeah what i really like about tony and i was telling you and i've said

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it so many times is is tony you know sort of the the main face the founder of the bitcoin way tony

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yasbeck for everyone watch this bitcoin prague speech it's incredible oh so good absolutely no

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nonsense type of guy and after my wife i reckon he's one of my favorite people on planet earth

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if not number one after my wife like you were saying absolutely won't compromise on shit coins

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or hardware wallets and you see some of these bitcoin influences obviously because ledger and

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Trezor have huge marketing budgets and stuff.

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They'll be promoting hardware wallets and stuff without shitting on the company too much that also support shitcoins, but aren't Bitcoin aligned in the slightest.

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And you're like, that makes no sense.

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You're talking about Bitcoin.

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We've got this freedom money.

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Why not just promote the best thing?

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There's plenty of options out there, but cold card foundation devices, at least they've got the basics of the Bitcoin ethos.

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They're open source.

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to verify they're air-gapped.

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One thing that you said, Michael, is that you tripped into it.

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I don't know if that's quite true.

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It's not like you're just at home smoking weed or whatever

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and someone knocked on your door and said,

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hey, dude, you want a job with the Bitcoin way?

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And you're like, yeah, just let me have another pull

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and pull the bong and I'll think about it.

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You were actively studying Bitcoin.

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you were a private client of the Bitcoin way, you're already on the Bitcoin jobs board.

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I'll get that link off you after the show and I'll put it in the show notes for everyone.

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And then once that job came up, you put in your application, but then you also emailed

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them as well.

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And people like, oh, it's lucky that you had their email.

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You had to pay as a private client to be able to get to that place.

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and I guess I just sort of want to like pull on this thread a little bit when it comes to Bitcoin

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nothing's ever handed to anyone like you can jump on a podcast I can jump on a podcast we can say

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read the big print by Lawrence Lepard the Bitcoin standard safety and moves parallel by Brian DeMint

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etc watch what's the problem by Joe Brian we can say all that and people can just sit there and be

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like, oh, cool, this is good entertainment. But unless they pick up that book or watch that

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video or go onto the exchange and set up the exchange and connect it to their bank and everything

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like that, nothing's going to change in their life until something else changes. How do you define

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proof of work in your own life? And has that changed since you've come into Bitcoin?

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Well, so I've always been a hard worker. I spent a decade in enterprise sales,

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selling into fortune 500 companies. And it's not, it's not something that comes naturally to me.

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And, uh, like I, I'm not a guy who wants to go out and make friends and go to, you know, social

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events and network and like, that's just not my, my cup of tea. Um, but I think, I think early on,

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I had done the proof of, I had committed to, okay, this is a role that I'm going to take.

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I'm going to learn. And I just did it. And eventually you sort of overcome the hurdles

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that you feel at the beginning that, you know, like you feel awkward, you know, going to a

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networking event or whatever. And so I think there's always been that. Since Bitcoin, I would

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say since finding Bitcoin, my time preference has lowered immensely, as I think it does for many

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people. I think the biggest thing for me is, I think there's like, I think all Bitcoiners are

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more naturally curious than the average population. I think that maybe my superpower, to the extent

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that I have one, is I think I'm more curious than most. I don't have time to tinker and to do all

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the things that I want to do, you know, playing around with new hardware. Like, I've got three

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little kids. I've, you know, I've got a busy life and I work a lot of hours. Like there's just not

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a lot left for that. But I, I'm yeah, like maybe your point is valid that, you know, I was on the

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Bitcoin or jobs, you know, paying attention to all of that in my free time that I had, I was reading,

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I was, you know, I listened to podcasts when I work out, when I'm, you know, just cutting the

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grass, I mean, doing anything. And so I think I was able to compact what has taken a lot of people,

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you know, five or 10 years of being in Bitcoin to grow their conviction. I mean, within six months

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of 2022, I remember I was at a wedding in June of 2022. And I remember telling my wife's cousin

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about Bitcoin and explaining to him why I thought the rest of crypto was something that he should be

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disinterested in. And so I must have gone pretty hard, pretty fast and been open-minded. And I

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wouldn't have considered myself an open-minded person before Bitcoin. I would have considered

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myself a pretty closed-minded person. And now as I look back, I think almost everything,

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there are very few things that I believe to be true today that I thought were true five years

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ago, four years ago or whatever. And so I think just having that, maybe that was something that

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the guys picked up on that I was curious. I was trying to figure this stuff out, continue to learn.

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And they thought, Hey, this is a guy who could, you know, be a podcast host and ask people

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questions and engage with them. And, uh, you know, so I'm, I'm sure there are ways that I,

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I teed myself up for the opportunity. And I think there are ways that I, you know, I, I did kind of

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stumble into it to some degree and, you know, a lot of, they, they could have ended up with a lot

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of other, other people. I'm grateful it's me. And I work hard to justify the decision that they made

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for them. Yeah, I think, you know, talking to Tony and stuff, everyone loves you, but watching your

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podcast and stuff, I tune in about every week and watch one. It's always just pure signal. It's fire.

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If you've still got your Bitcoin on exchange or you're looking to take your Bitcoin security to

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multi-sig and so much more. They never touch your keys. They will not touch your coins. Instead,

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you can book a free 30-minute call and have a chat with them. Safe Dina Moose, the author of

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The Bitcoin Standard, Natalie Brunel, Preston Pish and so many more recommend the professional

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IT cybersecurity team. A couple of outstanding things here. You can see they've been featured

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and Forbes, Bitcoin Magazine, Bitcoin Prague,

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Zero Hedge, Simply Bitcoin, the Bitcoin Safety,

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the Bitcoin Standard podcast for Safety and Moose,

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Bitcoin News, obviously, G'day Bitcoin for a long time.

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They're the world experts in helping people become self-sovereign.

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in a very easy to understand, step-by-step process.

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When you first log in to their website as well, they have got a free three-minute quiz to allow you to check if you are doing your cybersecurity, your setup correctly.

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I urge everyone to jump onto thebitcoinway.com.

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I have put a link into the description for everyone.

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Could not recommend them enough.

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I've used them personally before I ever partnered with them for the channel.

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Friends and family, they asked me to help them out.

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I'm like, go to the world experts.

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That is the Bitcoin way.

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So reach out to the Bitcoin way today.

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I want to talk about the podcasting.

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It's going to be matter on matter.

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But you're saying, let me phrase it this way.

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Do you reckon, you said Bitcoin's changed you in the way that you perceive things and approach things, and you're always really curious, and you said Bitcoin is in general a more curious to the average population.

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But has Bitcoin radicalized you or your thoughts in any way in the way that you perceive the world and the way that you interact now?

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Yeah, I don't want to get you cancelled.

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If I say some pretty outlandish shit on here in the video with coming up with Daniel Prince, that's some deep rabbit holes, man.

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so he's a he's a good one he's a good one well i don't i don't go as safe okay i would never take

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my own life i'll just i'll say that so uh yeah so i i have been completely radicalized in in so many

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ways and i think there's there's obviously a negative connotation to the idea of becoming

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radical i think it's a i think if you look at the political spectrum for example it's i mean at least

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in the US, I'm not going to speak for Australia or anywhere else. If you are willing to break free

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of the tribalism, it is entirely evident that we have a uniparty system. No one is operating in the

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interests of the American people. And the only way out is to opt out. And I think there are,

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what I tend to emphasize and focus on are the small ways that you can opt out of the education

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system, you can opt out of the monetary system, you can opt out of the healthcare system,

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you can opt out of a lot of things. To what extent that makes a big long-term impact,

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I'm just one guy trying to raise my family in a way that I see fit. But my hope is through the

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podcast, through my interactions with the people in my life, we begin to build this peaceful

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revolution from the ground up and I get more people opening their eyes. And I think I've

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probably, hopefully resonated with some people in the podcast. I think there are a handful of people

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in real life that I've connected with who I think have made some material changes.

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It's still an uphill battle though. It's a very difficult thing, especially where I live. I don't

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live in a nice area, like a fancy area, but it's affluent and people are relatively comfortable

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and they don't want to imagine. They like voting for their Republican candidate where I am and

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they think Trump or the next Republic, J.D. Vance, someone's going to come and save them.

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And I'm just like, man, if you just open your eyes to what these guys are doing right now,

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like you would be a lot like and you understood that if the other side was doing the exact same

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thing, you'd be all over them. It's this just isn't the solution. And so we could go down

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20 rabbit holes that I'm probably not comfortable talking about because I care too much for my

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safety for the benefit of my life but yeah understood sufficient to say i suffice it to say

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i've been radicalized in many ways yeah it's crazy um same with me and the uni party we've got like

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our political systems cooked as well i think everywhere in the western world's pretty fucked

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up at the minute but um has your wife dealt with the radicalization of yourself has she come along

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on that journey or she's sort of stayed fairly grounded where she was and then you've just gotten

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more and more radical?

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That's a good question.

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She is so patient and loyal

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that it's sometimes hard for me to tell

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to what extent what I say resonates with her and to what extent she just patient and loyal and accommodating of these of these crazy ideas that I bring to her You know I there are you know a lot of big world events you know

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one of them may or may not have happened in September of 2001 that, you know, for the longest

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time, I just believed like, oh, the mainstream narrative, this is what happened. And then if you

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just kind of spend an hour looking into it, your views begin to change. You're like, hang on,

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None of this makes sense, like literally none of it.

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That's right.

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But if you don't go look at it, then you just sort of, you know, take it face value, whatever

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in the US, we've got Fox News is the conservative, you know, CNN's the liberal mainstream outlet.

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You just take it at face value that this is the story.

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This is the narrative.

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I think she has become more open minded to a lot of these things because what I'm able

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to do is like she's never going to go watch podcasts, read books.

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like it's just not a these aren't topics of interest to her but if i can if i can talk to

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her for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and kind of go through the evidence that i've uncovered

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she's she's a hell of a lot smarter than me and so it becomes easy for her to like she's forced

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as someone she's talking to someone she trusts she's forced to at least confront the reality

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that maybe there's more to the story and that everything she's been told is is not the case

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where I'll say she's been particularly made in my view, a lot of progress is we've got three

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young kids with is with health. Like we like we're done vaccinating. Our kids don't have like

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a normal primary care doctor. We were homeschooling now. I was gonna ask about that.

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Yeah, like, yeah, we can get to homeschooling. And so she's, she's, she's woken up to that a lot

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that big pharma, big food, they hate you.

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They don't want your kids to be healthy.

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And that's been fortunate

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because I would impose that on my family.

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At this point, I'm so far radicalized

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that I would impose no vaccines,

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none of that on my family.

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The fact that she's gotten on board

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has made it much easier, obviously,

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for us to be in agreement on some of these things.

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That's interesting.

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Like here in Australia, they hate strong men, just in general.

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They're just, you're toxic and they want men to be feminized

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and they want them to be weak and disempowered and stuff.

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And you said, you know, that you wouldn't pose it if you had to.

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Obviously, I think that's the right thing as well,

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not in a violent way or whatever, but this is the right way.

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These are the rules under the house.

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We're going down that path.

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has that been something that you've grown into through bitcoin or you're already sort of that way

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inclined and it's just the conviction of bitcoin and everything you've learned that

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really allowed you to be able to hold that line so i think that bitcoin has actually i think bitcoin

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has probably changed that a lot for me i've always been rather traditional like i don't think if you

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ever asked my wife or i who's the you know who's the head of the home we would ever disagree that

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it's me, right? Something I've noticed though, in the last few years, I don't know when it,

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I don't know exactly what it was that triggered it. A year or two, a year and a half, two years ago,

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I went out and bought a motorcycle and I told her I was buying a motorcycle and she didn't want me

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to buy a motorcycle, but we never even had a conversation about it. Like I just told her like,

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Hey, I'm going to pick up a motorcycle, you know, on Saturday or whatever. And like, that was that

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she wasn't happy with it, but I really, and like in general, that's not the way we operate. Like I

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don't just impose my will on everything. My view of marriage is you try to be as democratic as you

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can, come to an agreement on every possible thing that you can, because that's going to, I mean,

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that's going to bring peace to the home if you can do that. And the important thing that you can do

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is find a spouse who generally agrees with you, generally understands the roles that you've

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adopted. And when you have those one-off moments, that's when you need to know who is actually in

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charge here because someone has to make the final call. And I have friends who are, you know,

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they have all sorts of marriage issues and, and it's like, they're negotiating everything.

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And it's like, who gets to make the final decision? Because this could be put to bed

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if one of you could just make the final decision, but instead you're going to pick it for the rest

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of your life. And to me, that makes for an unhealthy marriage. Like what my wife and I

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have is a healthy marriage. You know, we don't argue hardly ever. Like there's just nothing to

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argue about because we generally agree. And if we don't agree and I have a strong conviction on the

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subject at hand, I will make the final call. And, you know, if that was where to be vaccines or

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homeschooling or any of these things, that's what we would do. And that's what she signed up for.

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And that's what I signed up for. And I think Bitcoin has probably furthered my confidence that

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some of these traditional values that we've gotten away from are exactly what we need to be

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moving back to. So I would say my marriage has gotten stronger since Bitcoin because of that.

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I love that. I definitely want to come back to the homeschool and maybe we'll come back to

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the vaccines. But of most interest, it's something like I've had Walker, America on,

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Nico from Simply Bitcoin and stuff. And you'll bring on other podcasts or Robin Sayer and stuff.

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And you're like, before the conversation, I don't want to talk about being a Bitcoin podcast and

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stuff. So I've actively avoided doing that. But I think like the theme of this conversation,

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working within Bitcoin, putting in the proof of work, it probably could be very helpful for some

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people that are potentially thinking of what can they just do? Because there's no permission to

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start a podcast. You pull the phone out of your pocket and you can talk to it and then you can

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post online, Google, YouTube, they can shut down your account if they don't like what you're saying.

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But there's really like very little barrier to entry to be able to do it.

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And it's something that takes a while to be able to build up.

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But it's something people can do instantly to be able to contribute to the conversation of Bitcoin.

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What's that journey been like for you?

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Like you went into the Bitcoin way as a sales manager.

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That was the mindset, the role.

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And they're like, start a podcast for us.

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We interrupt this video to bring you a really quick PSA.

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How safe and secure is your Bitcoin seed phrase?

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So many people still hold their 12 or 24 words on paper.

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Then they sort of upgrade to something like this.

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This is a titanium version.

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It does hold all 24 words, but look how big it is.

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This device, this revolutionizes it.

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It changes it.

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It makes it so much more secure.

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What this does, you can see there's a one-inch washer on there.

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It comes with these punches that are almost microscopic.

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They give you a magnifying glass to be able to see the end of them

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because you really can't read what that says.

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And then they give you titanium washers, nylon washers.

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Think about this for x-rays, body scanners, metal detectors,

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border passes just around the house with the metal detector one,

357
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stainless steel as well.

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These are great for hot wallets.

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The titanium, it's going to survive a house fire.

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But this, compared to this, look at the size difference to it.

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You could fit eight of these on this one plate,

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yet it still contains all 24 words.

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Imagine how easy that is to be able to hide.

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Now the team have given a discount code for everyone.

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There is a link below.

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Now back to the show.

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Yeah, I was a bit nervous at first

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because it's not something I probably

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would have proactively done on my own.

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But the one thing I've been grateful so far

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in my journey at the Bitcoin Way

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has been I haven't said no to anything.

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and so um like last year when they earlier this year when they asked me to speak at btc prog

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um it was kind of optional it was sort of thrown to me because uh just some circumstances the

375
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logistics didn't work out for someone else and they said hey do you want to go speak in front of

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you know 2 000 people on the main stage at btc prog and i just said yes and the reason was was

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because i knew that if i didn't do that and that was my chance to speak at btc prog and someday we

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reach hyper Bitcoinization and we're, everyone's looking back at 2025 as the early days. If I said,

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Oh, I could have, you know, I could have been on stage, but I, you know, I didn't want to,

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or I didn't, didn't know what I'd say. I knew I'd regret it. The same thing was true with the

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podcast. As soon as they asked me, uh, the last thing I wanted to, first of all, say to my, you

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know, brand new employer was, uh, yeah, I don't know, but I knew this is a great opportunity to,

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to talk with some of the people who I've been listening to on podcasts. I've been reading

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their books. There are so many questions I would love to ask someone like Larry Lepard or Saifedean

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or any of those guys. Daniel Prince. I love Daniel. And so this is my chance to do that.

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And I completely agree with you too. The barrier, if that's something you're thinking about for

387
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anyone listening, the barrier to entry really is low. I mean, I'll give you like a couple of tools.

388
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Like we're using Riverside. That's what I use for our podcast. Very simple. You click record,

389
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It can create like shorts and clips for you automatically.

390
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If you want to get an editor and someone to brush everything up, you can do that.

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I use Buzzsprout to then push the audio version to Fountain, Apple, Spotify.

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And I mean, you're talking, I don't know.

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I don't know what the cost is anymore.

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You know, 50, a hundred bucks a month, maybe for the tech that you need to get a halfway

395
00:29:22,218 --> 00:29:24,238
polished podcast out into the world.

396
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And I think really the only question from there comes down to, do you want to do, you

397
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know, long form stuff, short form?

398
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Are you going to monologue?

399
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Are you going to invite guests on?

400
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And I can assure you, if you don't think no one's going to come on your podcast, start with me because no one cares about me.

401
00:29:40,198 --> 00:29:44,218
It's probably harder for you to get safety on your podcast if you're just starting out.

402
00:29:44,378 --> 00:29:46,138
I'm still trying to get siphoned.

403
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I was fortunate.

404
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We sponsor his podcast.

405
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So I had him on a while back.

406
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But a lot of the people I talked to early on were names that weren't household Bitcoin names.

407
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but there are a lot of people like myself out there who I think if you send me a message and

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you say hey I'm starting up a podcast could you join I'd be happy to come on you know and

409
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there are there are people far more important than me in the space who would also gladly come on you

410
00:30:13,578 --> 00:30:19,338
you know you just need to ask the question yeah yeah I remember when I went bitcoin only I don't

411
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know if it's my first bitcoin podcast but it's like really early and I reached out to Natalie

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Brunel and said maybe I'd done a couple of whatever but I'm like it seems like there's so many

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men in Bitcoin, I'd love to be able to get like a female perspective on it. Would you be interested

414
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to come on the show? And she's like, yeah, sure. And I'm like, whoa, like, this is amazing. You

415
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know, she's got one of the biggest Bitcoin podcasts and just said, sure, straight away.

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A little bit of other tips and tools that may be able to help people on this as well is like,

417
00:30:50,078 --> 00:30:54,918
take Michael up on that offer, take myself up on that offer, just reach out and send those texts,

418
00:30:54,918 --> 00:30:59,998
but do it strategically like this is all a game or life's a game or whatever.

419
00:31:00,158 --> 00:31:05,778
And the way that I've found it starting out is if you go for someone like SafeDean straight away,

420
00:31:05,858 --> 00:31:08,498
they're so busy, they get all these inquiries and stuff.

421
00:31:08,958 --> 00:31:12,298
But if you start with like Michael or myself or whatever, and you can be like,

422
00:31:12,438 --> 00:31:15,658
hey, do you have anyone else that you think might be interested in talking on the podcast?

423
00:31:15,658 --> 00:31:19,078
If they had a good experience, they may be able to lead you to that person.

424
00:31:19,338 --> 00:31:22,438
Or once you've had that on and then you've posted that podcast,

425
00:31:22,438 --> 00:31:25,438
then you can reach out to someone that's maybe a tier higher,

426
00:31:25,518 --> 00:31:27,478
even though Bitcoin's like fairly neutral.

427
00:31:27,998 --> 00:31:32,098
You know, if you go D, C, B, A list celebrities within Bitcoin or whatever.

428
00:31:32,298 --> 00:31:36,378
Start at the lower one and then leverage that and then message somebody else.

429
00:31:36,658 --> 00:31:39,758
So you interviewed like a D person, go to a C person, be like,

430
00:31:39,798 --> 00:31:43,258
hey, I just had Sean on and would you be interested in coming on the pod or whatever?

431
00:31:43,478 --> 00:31:49,418
But also like spend time interacting with them on X or on Noster to be able to provide value,

432
00:31:49,418 --> 00:31:56,258
share their things comment in a smart articulate way like the more value that you can provide to

433
00:31:56,258 --> 00:32:01,138
them i think the more receptive they're going to be and then also realize like everyone's pretty

434
00:32:01,138 --> 00:32:06,678
bloody busy um so they may not get back to you straight away so don't you know pest the shit out

435
00:32:06,678 --> 00:32:12,938
of them or or things like that just you know play it cool take your time and bitcoiners or anyone

436
00:32:12,938 --> 00:32:17,298
that's been here for a while or a little bit of time but they've put in the proof work realizes

437
00:32:17,298 --> 00:32:18,858
Bitcoin's not going away.

438
00:32:19,018 --> 00:32:19,958
We're not going away.

439
00:32:20,138 --> 00:32:22,538
So it's better to be able to play the long game

440
00:32:22,538 --> 00:32:24,058
and be like, hey, come on my show.

441
00:32:24,138 --> 00:32:24,658
Come on my show.

442
00:32:24,738 --> 00:32:25,178
Come on my show.

443
00:32:25,598 --> 00:32:26,438
You haven't replied to me.

444
00:32:26,478 --> 00:32:26,858
Fuck you.

445
00:32:27,078 --> 00:32:28,338
And like, I'm out, you know,

446
00:32:28,378 --> 00:32:29,778
and then you're going to ruin that chance.

447
00:32:29,778 --> 00:32:31,978
But then they're going to talk to somebody else

448
00:32:31,978 --> 00:32:33,458
and then you get a bad name and stuff.

449
00:32:33,538 --> 00:32:36,658
It's better just to take the time and play it safe.

450
00:32:36,918 --> 00:32:39,678
What are the other opportunities out of the podcast

451
00:32:39,678 --> 00:32:42,798
directly or indirectly that have come across?

452
00:32:42,858 --> 00:32:44,518
Because obviously you've got the opportunity

453
00:32:44,518 --> 00:32:46,398
to talk to the best and the brightest people

454
00:32:46,398 --> 00:32:47,198
within Bitcoin.

455
00:32:47,298 --> 00:32:53,658
which pretty much translates to some of the best and brightest people or thinkers in the entire world.

456
00:32:54,298 --> 00:32:59,618
So opportunities that have come just from meeting some of these folks, talking to some of them.

457
00:32:59,878 --> 00:33:04,118
I mean, there's, you know, one of the things that's cool that we do,

458
00:33:04,278 --> 00:33:07,938
and I'd encourage anyone who is just finding out about The Bitcoin Way,

459
00:33:08,158 --> 00:33:13,638
go to our website, www.thebitcoinway.com, subscribe to our newsletter.

460
00:33:14,278 --> 00:33:15,938
I was going to say that is so good.

461
00:33:15,938 --> 00:33:43,018
Yeah. So the newsletter is great. It comes out every Sunday. It might be Monday for you. But Sunday, that gets sent. And one of the things we'll share with newsletter subscribers is like webinars that we have. So something we do once a month, usually about once a month, is we'll have someone on, you know, like we've had Larry Lippard, we've had Natalie, we've had Saifedean, handful of really, really smart people, big names in the Bitcoin space who have come on.

462
00:33:43,018 --> 00:33:52,198
And we've done a sort of a variety, like Larry Lepard did a presentation on sort of the macro outlook, like making the case for the big print.

463
00:33:52,198 --> 00:33:55,598
And then he spent 40 minutes taking questions from the audience.

464
00:33:55,878 --> 00:33:57,758
And so like an opportunity.

465
00:33:58,258 --> 00:34:01,038
Yeah. So like we're doing that again here in a couple of weeks.

466
00:34:01,138 --> 00:34:05,538
I don't know when this podcast is going out, but we're we're doing that again, mid-December with him.

467
00:34:05,878 --> 00:34:09,118
But it's going to be a straight hour of Q&A with Larry.

468
00:34:09,118 --> 00:34:13,798
so bring your questions but you only know about that if you're following us on social media you

469
00:34:13,798 --> 00:34:17,798
know subscribe to our newsletter that kind of thing so yeah i'd encourage you to do so those

470
00:34:17,798 --> 00:34:23,378
opportunities have been great because i get to sit there and moderate a q a with tony and natalie

471
00:34:23,378 --> 00:34:28,198
like two like opposite ends of the spectrum and in terms of temperament in the bitcoin

472
00:34:28,198 --> 00:34:35,918
completely very smart very you know competent in their own right and i get to sit there and

473
00:34:35,918 --> 00:34:41,478
field questions for them and chime in if I think it makes sense. So like those opportunities come

474
00:34:41,478 --> 00:34:47,798
up. I think the fact that I was doing the podcast probably lent itself to me being the person that

475
00:34:47,798 --> 00:34:53,158
they asked to speak at BTC Prague because I had some, you know, I was a familiar face to some

476
00:34:53,158 --> 00:34:57,858
people and, you know, had talked to so many people. Like there wasn't really anyone else

477
00:34:57,858 --> 00:35:02,998
on the team who was actively doing public, you know, appearances of any kind. And I at least

478
00:35:02,998 --> 00:35:07,718
had the podcast. So yeah, when you put yourself out there, it's, uh, it really does open a lot

479
00:35:07,718 --> 00:35:12,738
of doors. And to the point you made, yes, start with someone like myself, start with someone like

480
00:35:12,738 --> 00:35:18,818
a D list person. I can introduce you to a handful of C list. I can introduce you to a B or an A list

481
00:35:18,818 --> 00:35:22,998
person or two, you know, once you kind of got going and, you know, felt like that was something

482
00:35:22,998 --> 00:35:28,218
I'd be comfortable doing. But when you just, when you just like, what's the mean, like you can just

483
00:35:28,218 --> 00:35:37,098
do things, right? Just do shit. You really can. And point a camera at yourself, spend $50 on a

484
00:35:37,098 --> 00:35:42,018
slightly better microphone or if you want to invest a little bit. And then eventually, I've

485
00:35:42,018 --> 00:35:47,338
got a whole studio set up now because I've been doing this a while. And you can justify the cost

486
00:35:47,338 --> 00:35:52,058
of those things after a bit. But yeah, just put yourself out there. Figure out what you're best

487
00:35:52,058 --> 00:35:57,358
at. If you're not a podcast type person, go write articles, right? Get a substat going.

488
00:35:58,218 --> 00:36:02,338
start a newsletter, you know, write an ebook.

489
00:36:02,538 --> 00:36:06,938
You know, you can do so many low cost things that lend that your,

490
00:36:07,038 --> 00:36:09,238
your skillset lends itself to.

491
00:36:09,378 --> 00:36:14,438
I think there's no, there will never be too many Bitcoin podcasts or books.

492
00:36:14,438 --> 00:36:16,858
I know it's like, it's almost like a joke in and of itself,

493
00:36:16,858 --> 00:36:21,298
but different people resonate with different groups of people in different ways.

494
00:36:21,518 --> 00:36:24,998
You know, I've been on a couple of podcasts with some,

495
00:36:24,998 --> 00:36:27,958
some women in Bitcoin and I told them afterwards,

496
00:36:27,958 --> 00:36:35,938
I said, like, keep doing this because we like we, you know, I'm not a big like diversity, equity, inclusion type guy, obviously.

497
00:36:36,478 --> 00:36:45,598
But I'm like, my wife would not. She doesn't. My wife doesn't want to hear Tony and I talk about Bitcoin and like, you know, it sounds like my wife.

498
00:36:45,878 --> 00:36:48,298
Yeah. Like she's the sweetest person you'll ever meet.

499
00:36:48,298 --> 00:37:12,418
But like, if I sent her one of Natalie's, you know, podcasts, and I said, Hey, this is a topic that might really interest you. I think she'd be more inclined to it. And then she'd start to love Natalie. And like, we'd bring a new Bitcoiner along. So yeah, don't sell yourself short. I mean, if you've ever watched my podcast, I'm hardly like a personality. It's just, you know, a matter of right time, right place, and then taking action to go do it.

500
00:37:12,418 --> 00:37:20,598
And I think a lot of people would be surprised at just what they could accomplish if they picked up a microphone, picked up a camera and hit record.

501
00:37:21,578 --> 00:37:24,778
What you just said there, right time, right place.

502
00:37:25,298 --> 00:37:28,258
Earlier, you were saying that you're lucky and you just tripped into it.

503
00:37:28,338 --> 00:37:29,438
Right time, right place.

504
00:37:30,398 --> 00:37:34,158
With proper planning and preparation, that's what I call luck.

505
00:37:34,218 --> 00:37:35,218
That's how I define it.

506
00:37:35,218 --> 00:37:39,198
So if you want to call yourself lucky, like 100%, you're lucky.

507
00:37:39,198 --> 00:37:46,278
but it's not that mythical luck that people dream about when they're broken their mindset.

508
00:37:46,918 --> 00:37:56,318
I would say I'm the kind of guy who wakes up early, works out hard, works hard,

509
00:37:56,778 --> 00:37:59,938
spends as much time as possible with my kids, with my wife.

510
00:38:00,278 --> 00:38:07,858
And there are very few moments in any day that are not intended to serve someone else.

511
00:38:07,858 --> 00:38:14,358
and I think if you that's that's maybe the proof of work right yes there's a right time right place

512
00:38:14,358 --> 00:38:18,918
but it's yeah it's when that meets the person who's willing to say yes to go speak on stage or

513
00:38:18,918 --> 00:38:24,198
yes to start a podcast or yes to you know to do whatever and like you know there are a lot of

514
00:38:24,198 --> 00:38:28,278
little things I did at the Bitcoin way where it's a hey can you jump on a call you know like a

515
00:38:28,278 --> 00:38:32,898
welcome call with someone they want to learn about our services we think you know and you've been

516
00:38:32,898 --> 00:38:37,358
through the process you know enough and I just I say yes yeah I'd be I'd be happy to you know

517
00:38:37,358 --> 00:38:43,698
helping who's more credible than someone who's gone through the process and uh you know sort of

518
00:38:43,698 --> 00:38:48,558
sort of gone on this journey of coins on exchange coins in collaborative custody and now

519
00:38:48,558 --> 00:38:54,518
you know pure self-sovereignty so uh i think just saying yes to all of the important things and all

520
00:38:54,518 --> 00:38:59,138
of the opportunities that come your way and if it doesn't stick then you know find the next thing to

521
00:38:59,138 --> 00:39:06,398
say yes to i yeah i i love that it sort of reminds me i don't know seven years ago whatever i was

522
00:39:06,398 --> 00:39:13,938
back when I was working a bullshit job, we're on the roads and building roads. And it was like

523
00:39:13,938 --> 00:39:19,758
my first week or week one or whatever. But it was like at least the first couple of days.

524
00:39:20,438 --> 00:39:25,878
Like I've always been very busy. I'm getting paid. I signed up to work by the hour. So I'll

525
00:39:25,878 --> 00:39:29,978
fill that hour with work. If there's nothing to do, I'll go find something else to do. So anyway,

526
00:39:30,078 --> 00:39:35,058
I was literally sweeping the road, like the gutters, you know, when it rains and stuff.

527
00:39:35,058 --> 00:39:55,316
And these I won discriminate in his looks or whatever not a very healthy person older person been working there for 20 30 years or whatever just totally checked out of life And he came over to me he like Sean you making you need to stop that I like why he like you making us look bad I like

528
00:39:55,316 --> 00:40:01,756
no buddy you are making you look bad I'm working at the moment this is what I got employed to I

529
00:40:01,756 --> 00:40:06,736
just signed that contract they employed me just last week so I'm doing what I meant to be doing

530
00:40:06,736 --> 00:40:12,616
what are you doing it's like fucking that it didn't go over well um since then but i like

531
00:40:12,616 --> 00:40:17,316
stayed in that role for a tiny little i don't know a couple of months or whatever and moved

532
00:40:17,316 --> 00:40:21,756
on to another role really quickly and they're like oh you're a kiss ass or you're a suck ass

533
00:40:21,756 --> 00:40:26,696
or suck up or whatever and you're like no i'm just doing what needs to be done i'm going over

534
00:40:26,696 --> 00:40:30,856
and above because i don't want to stay in this situation this just a means to an end to be able

535
00:40:30,856 --> 00:40:33,136
to achieve my goals, my life or whatever.

536
00:40:33,316 --> 00:40:37,236
Of course, I'm going to rise above everyone else.

537
00:40:37,276 --> 00:40:39,836
I'm going to be the best that I can be, not to be better than them,

538
00:40:39,896 --> 00:40:43,396
but to be better than myself so that hopefully that we can continue

539
00:40:43,396 --> 00:40:44,836
to step into these opportunities.

540
00:40:44,836 --> 00:40:46,416
I think that's important with everything.

541
00:40:47,096 --> 00:40:48,716
But a couple of things that you've mentioned,

542
00:40:48,836 --> 00:40:51,636
you've said the word collaborative custody a couple of times.

543
00:40:51,716 --> 00:40:54,976
It's the same within Bitcoin, not your keys, not your coins.

544
00:40:55,756 --> 00:41:00,696
I think the worst thing people could do is hear about Bitcoin

545
00:41:00,696 --> 00:41:04,696
They hear about that it's this freedom money, like literally freedom money.

546
00:41:04,816 --> 00:41:05,536
It's sovereign money.

547
00:41:05,696 --> 00:41:11,736
It's what's going to dictate, I think, the free people from the fiat slaves, the economical

548
00:41:11,736 --> 00:41:13,436
slaves in short order.

549
00:41:13,996 --> 00:41:15,536
That's sort of my beliefs with it.

550
00:41:15,716 --> 00:41:21,236
But Bitcoin is only valuable if you hold in self-custody, like not your keys, not your

551
00:41:21,236 --> 00:41:21,456
coins.

552
00:41:21,536 --> 00:41:22,236
That's my belief.

553
00:41:22,276 --> 00:41:27,236
If you don't hold the Bitcoin, if somebody else does in a collaborative custody or it's

554
00:41:27,236 --> 00:41:33,096
on the exchange or it's in the ETF. My belief is they're fucked up. And that could be for a couple

555
00:41:33,096 --> 00:41:39,076
of reasons, like just missing the information, which is probably the most likely. They just don't

556
00:41:39,076 --> 00:41:44,476
know that you can do this or they don't know how to be able to do it. Or somebody like worse has

557
00:41:44,476 --> 00:41:50,136
led them to stray and saying, oh, this is easier. You just buy the stock, you know, BlackRock's,

558
00:41:50,176 --> 00:41:54,756
Bitcoin or whatever. And it's just going to work like you've been buying all your other stocks.

559
00:41:54,756 --> 00:41:56,576
where you go down the collaborative custody,

560
00:41:56,656 --> 00:41:59,136
we'll hold one of the keys for you if you lose it or whatever.

561
00:41:59,276 --> 00:42:01,436
But then you're like starting to hand away power

562
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:03,916
and that defeats the whole purpose of Bitcoin.

563
00:42:04,196 --> 00:42:08,136
Obviously, with the Bitcoin way, as I said sort of at the start,

564
00:42:08,236 --> 00:42:12,016
the Bitcoin way are the best in the world at teaching or mentoring people

565
00:42:12,016 --> 00:42:15,116
how to be able to take self-custody of Bitcoin,

566
00:42:15,616 --> 00:42:16,916
not your keys, not your coins,

567
00:42:16,916 --> 00:42:20,556
but then to be able to like go through the steps systematically

568
00:42:20,556 --> 00:42:22,136
to be able to learn.

569
00:42:22,136 --> 00:42:37,676
And before we sort of talk about what the Bitcoin way does specifically from your experience working at the Bitcoin way, what have you seen like the things that trip people up the most or they're the most hesitant to actually take control of their Bitcoin?

570
00:42:38,276 --> 00:42:40,676
So I think there are probably a few things.

571
00:42:40,676 --> 00:42:46,496
One of them is a fundamental misunderstanding of why Bitcoin appreciates in value.

572
00:42:46,736 --> 00:42:49,656
I think a lot of people, they hear it's scarce.

573
00:42:49,956 --> 00:42:51,236
And so number go up.

574
00:42:51,236 --> 00:42:57,276
It's like digital gold. And so I'll buy the ETF because I think it's going to, it's like, no, no, no.

575
00:42:57,276 --> 00:43:09,456
If you understand the state of macro, you know, you look in Australia, in the UK, in Canada, I mean, some of the absolute insanity being rolled out by government.

576
00:43:09,456 --> 00:43:16,396
It's, it becomes like Tony's experience in Lebanon feels like this extreme example, currency collapse.

577
00:43:16,396 --> 00:43:18,776
He walked away with $70 in his pocket.

578
00:43:19,636 --> 00:43:26,056
And what people don't realize is that, yes, it started with Lebanon, but nobody is immune

579
00:43:26,056 --> 00:43:26,636
for that.

580
00:43:26,816 --> 00:43:34,776
Like you have to begin to recognize that the same dysfunctional policies that brought Lebanon

581
00:43:34,776 --> 00:43:38,276
to its knees are already in place in all of these other places.

582
00:43:38,496 --> 00:43:42,656
It's central banking, it's money printing, corrupt politicians, you go down the line.

583
00:43:42,656 --> 00:44:11,016
And you have to realize that the music stops at some point for everyone, I think. And I don't know if that's in two years or five years, 10 years or 50 years, but it doesn't really matter. Because when you begin to recognize the corruption, the fact that there's no one coming to save you, and like you really internalize that you become obsessed with self-sovereignty and wanting to hold your wealth and wanting to educate your kids yourself and wanting to do all of these other things that we could get into.

584
00:44:11,016 --> 00:44:18,256
it becomes obvious like every day the decisions I make and I don't mean to to go on a tangent but

585
00:44:18,256 --> 00:44:25,776
there are a lot of things that I don't do because I feel like if I did them I would be casting a

586
00:44:25,776 --> 00:44:31,876
tiny vote to institutions that I want nothing to do with and like the example I always use is like

587
00:44:31,876 --> 00:44:40,496
I literally have not eaten dessert in three years let's go I never signal and it's in the in the

588
00:44:40,496 --> 00:44:45,756
reason is because if I open that, I don't know what you got, if you guys have, do you have Oreos

589
00:44:45,756 --> 00:44:53,756
in Australia? Yeah. So man, I used to be able to pound some Oreos and I haven't eaten any of them

590
00:44:53,756 --> 00:45:01,216
in three years. And the reason is, is because I don't want to fund with any of my value,

591
00:45:01,216 --> 00:45:06,296
that institution that is poisoning is trying to poison me. And then the people on the back end

592
00:45:06,296 --> 00:45:10,696
who say, hey, we got a pill to fix, you know, the fact that you poisoned yourself. And then

593
00:45:10,696 --> 00:45:15,336
the healthcare system that says, hey, you know, now that you're fat and obese, and you need to go,

594
00:45:15,476 --> 00:45:20,056
you know, do these medical treatments or whatever, like, I want nothing to do with it. I want to

595
00:45:20,056 --> 00:45:25,456
completely opt out. And so my point is, when it comes to financial self-sovereignty, the same is

596
00:45:25,456 --> 00:45:31,256
sort of true. If you are trusting a key to someone else, if you're working with a company that

597
00:45:31,256 --> 00:45:36,316
supports shit coins, if you're buying the paper Bitcoin, if you're speculating on a treasury

598
00:45:36,316 --> 00:45:42,416
company who may do great in fiat terms, it just, it just doesn't matter. I'm completely disinterested.

599
00:45:42,416 --> 00:45:47,616
Like, I think I'm grateful that sailor has orange filled. A lot of people could not possibly care

600
00:45:47,616 --> 00:45:54,136
less. If my strategy buys more Bitcoin, if they go, if they go to the moon and way outperform

601
00:45:54,136 --> 00:45:59,536
Bitcoin in dollar terms, like it literally doesn't matter to me because it's, there's,

602
00:45:59,536 --> 00:46:02,176
it's completely detached from the notion of self-sovereignty.

603
00:46:02,416 --> 00:46:04,116
And that is my sole pursuit.

604
00:46:04,396 --> 00:46:08,076
So when it comes to self-custody, where do you want me to go with this?

605
00:46:08,136 --> 00:46:12,076
Like I could sort of break down like why I left collaborative custody,

606
00:46:12,216 --> 00:46:14,356
why self-custody itself is so important.

607
00:46:14,516 --> 00:46:15,476
Where would you like me to go?

608
00:46:15,476 --> 00:46:18,576
I think that's probably, yeah, really pertinent.

609
00:46:18,936 --> 00:46:22,736
Like most people, you get to talk to Tony, I get to talk to Tony and stuff.

610
00:46:22,736 --> 00:46:24,496
You're right deep into it.

611
00:46:24,536 --> 00:46:29,316
But I think because you're so deep into it and you work within the space,

612
00:46:29,316 --> 00:46:38,496
I think that could be the most helpful conversation of why, yeah, left collaborative custody and why self-custody is the most important thing.

613
00:46:38,776 --> 00:46:47,276
Just for context for everyone, if you couldn't take self-custody of Bitcoin, it would be worth exactly zero dollars if that part didn't exist.

614
00:46:47,476 --> 00:46:49,176
But yeah, I'll just hand it over to you.

615
00:46:49,216 --> 00:46:51,456
And if you want to go down those rabbit holes.

616
00:46:52,156 --> 00:46:52,276
Yeah.

617
00:46:52,456 --> 00:46:54,236
So self-custody is the revolution.

618
00:46:54,516 --> 00:46:58,976
I mean, as much as any other aspect of Bitcoin, I think, you know, you talk about scarcity.

619
00:46:58,976 --> 00:47:04,016
like all these very fundamental, like you can't have one without the other. I get all that. But

620
00:47:04,016 --> 00:47:09,896
the, when it comes to, I was in a collaborative custody setup and the company started supporting

621
00:47:09,896 --> 00:47:16,896
shit coins. And that was like the red flag that I needed to at least begin, you know, looking for

622
00:47:16,896 --> 00:47:22,256
like, what's the alternative to that? I don't think I understood like exactly how self, like pure

623
00:47:22,256 --> 00:47:28,236
self-custody worked. I wasn't allowed to run a node, which I, you know, I heard more and more

624
00:47:28,236 --> 00:47:33,256
people talking about, Hey, you need to run a node. Like that's what makes that is participation in

625
00:47:33,256 --> 00:47:38,036
the network. And I'm kind of just a purist sort of, sort of guy. So I was like, yeah, I feel like

626
00:47:38,036 --> 00:47:42,316
I'm making a lot of compromises here that maybe I don't fully understand, but don't seem quite right.

627
00:47:43,016 --> 00:47:51,436
You know, I had a KYC myself. I had like, I got, I remember getting an email from the company and

628
00:47:51,436 --> 00:47:55,236
they were like, Hey, we're going to be down for maintenance between, you know, 10 PM and midnight.

629
00:47:55,236 --> 00:48:03,676
And I was like, okay, so it is no longer permissionless, censorship-resistant money because your app is going to be down.

630
00:48:04,736 --> 00:48:06,356
And that was, I think, the moment.

631
00:48:06,536 --> 00:48:13,076
And I think I happened to get one of those emails right before, right after I'd heard Tony on TV.

632
00:48:14,036 --> 00:48:17,816
And I was like, this is exactly what I've been waiting for.

633
00:48:18,516 --> 00:48:18,896
Let's go.

634
00:48:18,896 --> 00:48:22,236
You know, and a lot of people, there are technical reasons too.

635
00:48:22,236 --> 00:48:25,636
like the two or three multi-sig using a third party.

636
00:48:26,576 --> 00:48:27,976
Like it's not just two keys you need.

637
00:48:28,096 --> 00:48:29,476
Like there are configuration files

638
00:48:29,476 --> 00:48:31,736
that you need to recover in a worst case scenario.

639
00:48:32,136 --> 00:48:33,216
If the government were to co-opt,

640
00:48:33,416 --> 00:48:35,136
you know, one of those companies, shut them down,

641
00:48:35,396 --> 00:48:36,816
it would probably be impossible.

642
00:48:37,096 --> 00:48:38,636
I think, I could be wrong.

643
00:48:38,736 --> 00:48:41,056
I'm not, you know, I'm not making any blanket statements here.

644
00:48:41,096 --> 00:48:41,916
It would probably be impossible

645
00:48:41,916 --> 00:48:43,836
for some people to recover their Bitcoin

646
00:48:43,836 --> 00:48:46,456
because they probably don't have what they really need.

647
00:48:46,656 --> 00:48:47,676
And it would be very,

648
00:48:47,816 --> 00:48:49,556
for the people who had kind of done it right,

649
00:48:49,656 --> 00:48:51,776
it would be very difficult and very painful.

650
00:48:51,776 --> 00:48:55,236
And they would probably come to the Bitcoin way and say, can you help me?

651
00:48:55,696 --> 00:48:58,096
Can you help me through this process of recovering my Bitcoin?

652
00:48:58,896 --> 00:49:00,976
And so I'm like, I'm just going to skip all that stuff.

653
00:49:01,056 --> 00:49:02,896
Like, why would I go through all this?

654
00:49:03,036 --> 00:49:04,116
I'm not an idiot.

655
00:49:04,296 --> 00:49:06,416
I can figure out how to secure my well.

656
00:49:07,536 --> 00:49:10,836
Probably the biggest concern for most people is I don't trust myself.

657
00:49:10,976 --> 00:49:13,736
It's a single point of failure if I take self-custody.

658
00:49:14,096 --> 00:49:16,436
So, you know, there's this hesitation.

659
00:49:16,876 --> 00:49:20,696
The reality is there's only a single point of failure in self-custody.

660
00:49:20,696 --> 00:49:24,056
if you choose to allow there to be a single point of failure.

661
00:49:24,656 --> 00:49:24,956
That's right.

662
00:49:24,956 --> 00:49:28,216
There are plenty of ways you can make copies of things,

663
00:49:28,596 --> 00:49:31,016
secure them, separate your seed phrase,

664
00:49:31,196 --> 00:49:32,456
geographically disperse them.

665
00:49:32,576 --> 00:49:33,756
Like you can get creative.

666
00:49:34,196 --> 00:49:35,156
You don't have to get fancy.

667
00:49:35,296 --> 00:49:36,356
You can get creative though.

668
00:49:36,696 --> 00:49:38,896
And there's no natural disaster.

669
00:49:39,076 --> 00:49:42,456
There's no anything that would necessarily shake you

670
00:49:42,456 --> 00:49:44,536
out of your Bitcoin in self-custody,

671
00:49:44,676 --> 00:49:45,996
but you have to have it done right.

672
00:49:46,156 --> 00:49:48,676
Like you can't make rookie mistakes.

673
00:49:48,676 --> 00:49:52,896
um yeah you know i think that's that's that's the benefit of securing the bitcoin way

674
00:49:52,896 --> 00:49:59,636
that's right we literally have a team that sits on calls all day every day guiding our clients

675
00:49:59,636 --> 00:50:04,316
through self-custody we've never had a client lose bitcoin um and in the in the beauty of it

676
00:50:04,316 --> 00:50:09,536
too is when it's in self-custody you're less tempted to like it's a little less convenient

677
00:50:09,536 --> 00:50:15,476
right like that that's where like my dreams are and so i'm less tempted to go buy stuff i don't

678
00:50:15,476 --> 00:50:21,676
need. I'm less tempted to go speculate on Bitcoin treasury companies. Not that I feel that temptation

679
00:50:21,676 --> 00:50:28,276
anyway, that so many seem to, but it's just sitting there. And really all I need to do with it is

680
00:50:28,276 --> 00:50:34,216
occasionally load it onto a hop spending wallet so I can have Bitcoin to spend and use it as money.

681
00:50:34,216 --> 00:50:39,616
And other than that, I sleep like a baby knowing that no one else can touch it. No one else

682
00:50:39,616 --> 00:50:44,616
knows how much I have. No one knows anything about it. So it's a beautiful setup.

683
00:50:45,476 --> 00:50:55,416
It truly is. And for context, I've said it, I think twice on this show, but when I, like I started out on Bitcoin by myself or crypto, then Bitcoin found Bitcoin within two weeks.

684
00:50:55,636 --> 00:51:07,036
But I came up with this amazing self-custody setup. It would have been like a couple of hundred hours of watching YouTube tutorials and videos and things like that in three different countries.

685
00:51:07,456 --> 00:51:15,076
And it was fucking complicated, like really fucking complicated. And I thought it was super, super secure.

686
00:51:15,076 --> 00:51:22,076
met up with Tony he's like this is just shit I said it a lot nicer he's like let's start again

687
00:51:22,076 --> 00:51:28,396
man and we start and we build it back up and you're like like I should have just paid at the start

688
00:51:28,396 --> 00:51:35,016
to meet with you guys I didn't know of Tony at that stage and you're like oh my god this could

689
00:51:35,016 --> 00:51:41,976
have been so much easier and those hours that I spent doing it I could have been stacking more

690
00:51:41,976 --> 00:51:46,636
skills or I could have been providing value or I could have just filmed a couple more podcasts or

691
00:51:46,636 --> 00:51:52,736
whatever it is. Like I could have used that time for something of benefit to the world or service

692
00:51:52,736 --> 00:51:57,736
to the world or whatever or service to myself. I could have chilled out and spent time doing

693
00:51:57,736 --> 00:52:03,776
something for me instead of doing something where ultimately it just got shredded up and it actually

694
00:52:03,776 --> 00:52:09,236
wasn't that safe. It wasn't that secure. It was super complex. If something happened to me, then

695
00:52:09,236 --> 00:52:13,376
And that Bitcoin probably would have just been donated to the Bitcoin network.

696
00:52:13,636 --> 00:52:16,156
And then sitting with Tony, it didn't even take that long.

697
00:52:16,236 --> 00:52:19,116
A couple of sessions, great, good, good to go.

698
00:52:19,736 --> 00:52:25,176
And for everyone that doesn't know, like I have partnered with the Bitcoin way with my longest channel partner.

699
00:52:25,576 --> 00:52:28,296
But the best thing is the first 30 minutes is free.

700
00:52:28,396 --> 00:52:34,356
So when you call them up or when you jump on a call with them, it's not costing you anything to be able to find out what would work for you.

701
00:52:34,356 --> 00:52:38,256
And you mentioned the website earlier to sign up with the newsletter.

702
00:52:38,436 --> 00:52:39,136
That's amazing.

703
00:52:39,236 --> 00:52:44,276
I'll read not 100% everyone because I fucking hate emails in general.

704
00:52:44,516 --> 00:52:49,376
I go through hundreds of emails a day, but I'll take it as a brain break.

705
00:52:49,496 --> 00:52:50,896
And it's just absolutely amazing.

706
00:52:50,976 --> 00:52:56,356
The newsletter, but also that three-minute survey that you have on the website,

707
00:52:56,596 --> 00:52:57,656
I think that's amazing.

708
00:52:57,816 --> 00:53:01,076
So if you just go to the Bitcoin way and then just wait,

709
00:53:01,276 --> 00:53:05,776
it'll pop up automatically or you go to the top on the tab and it says survey there.

710
00:53:06,296 --> 00:53:09,856
Take that survey and see how good your current setup is.

711
00:53:09,996 --> 00:53:13,096
Like it's free, it's easy, and you can sign up to the newsletter

712
00:53:13,096 --> 00:53:14,016
at the same time.

713
00:53:14,336 --> 00:53:15,376
We'd be able to do that.

714
00:53:16,596 --> 00:53:23,316
I've got my interest in Bitcoin treasury companies is that I don't understand

715
00:53:23,316 --> 00:53:26,296
why people would do it and for a couple of reasons.

716
00:53:26,296 --> 00:53:29,196
It's not Bitcoin in self-custody, like you were saying.

717
00:53:29,596 --> 00:53:34,176
If it's not Bitcoin in self-custody, it's not Bitcoin in self-custody.

718
00:53:34,276 --> 00:53:35,416
I think that's how you win the lot.

719
00:53:35,776 --> 00:53:40,996
the game of life, you win the game of Bitcoin. It's Bitcoin and self-custody. Aside from that,

720
00:53:41,136 --> 00:53:48,316
say like you make all these fiat gains over the next three to five years and you're 10X or you

721
00:53:48,316 --> 00:53:53,636
100X, you're Bitcoin of what Bitcoin would just be. But then you go to sell and you get paid out

722
00:53:53,636 --> 00:53:58,156
in fiat, capital gains, you deal with that, but you've got all this cash here. What happens if

723
00:53:58,156 --> 00:54:03,096
at that stage in your local jurisdiction, you can't buy a large amount of Bitcoin and put it

724
00:54:03,096 --> 00:54:08,496
to self custody. What if they stop it at that stage and they only allow the banks to be able

725
00:54:08,496 --> 00:54:12,696
to custody the Bitcoin on your behalf if you're going through traditional exchanges? That's what

726
00:54:12,696 --> 00:54:18,356
I fear with these Bitcoin treasury companies. What I fear the most is that they're going to be down

727
00:54:18,356 --> 00:54:24,076
like 94% like NACA or I think most of them are fucking down. I think even micro strategy is

728
00:54:24,076 --> 00:54:28,276
down hard. I literally don't pay any attention to the prices or whatever. You know,

729
00:54:28,576 --> 00:54:33,076
say the other day saying, for years, he's saying we're never going to sell our Bitcoin. Then the

730
00:54:33,076 --> 00:54:37,436
other day and saying like we could sell the bitcoin if we we had to or whatever and they're

731
00:54:37,436 --> 00:54:42,996
taking out fiat getting like holding fiat cash reserves and things like this and you're like

732
00:54:42,996 --> 00:54:48,156
that's not bitcoin that's not the separation of money from state that looks like that's money in

733
00:54:48,156 --> 00:54:54,516
the state getting closer and closer in the current system so i guess without um being interested in

734
00:54:54,516 --> 00:54:58,936
shit coins when you're talking to people not shit coins bitcoin treasury companies they're

735
00:54:58,936 --> 00:55:04,916
they're just a shit coin that's a freudian slip um but like how do you communicate them about them

736
00:55:04,916 --> 00:55:08,296
or do you just totally ignore the conversation because i'm sure you've got a lot of clients

737
00:55:08,296 --> 00:55:14,556
that say hey what do you think uh micro strategy or whatever the other ones are i mean i i think

738
00:55:14,556 --> 00:55:19,496
we're disinterested for the same reasons you are we talk about them you know in our on bitcoin

739
00:55:19,496 --> 00:55:26,836
banter our bi-weekly segment that we do on the channel i mean the way i frame them is this is

740
00:55:26,836 --> 00:55:30,016
sort of me, me speaking personally, I don't know that everyone at the Bitcoin way would frame it

741
00:55:30,016 --> 00:55:35,296
like this. I think of, of saving, investing, and speculating and saving is what you do with Bitcoin

742
00:55:35,296 --> 00:55:40,036
and self-custody, right? Like when you have conviction, you understand it. Like you just

743
00:55:40,036 --> 00:55:45,316
stack sats, you stay humbly stack sats. And that's like, that's my savings vehicle. If I want to

744
00:55:45,316 --> 00:55:52,836
invest, it means I want to seek, you know, outsized returns and something that I understand I'm going

745
00:55:52,836 --> 00:55:57,476
to put sweat into, I'm going to, you know, like I have a fundamental understanding, but I also

746
00:55:57,476 --> 00:56:02,916
recognize that it's, it's a riskier, like starting a business could be, I mean, even like, I don't

747
00:56:02,916 --> 00:56:06,756
view like, like real estate is uninteresting to me because, but like, if you're like, Hey, that,

748
00:56:06,976 --> 00:56:11,896
you know, for cashflow purposes, like I need to, you know, pay my bills, you know, you could say,

749
00:56:11,956 --> 00:56:16,136
Hey, I live in a, you know, I've got, I know a safe jurisdiction, you know, in a college town

750
00:56:16,136 --> 00:56:20,896
where lots of people need to rent, you know, like that could be like an investment that you make.

751
00:56:20,896 --> 00:56:25,136
you understand that you've got counterparty risk, you've got local ordinances to abide by,

752
00:56:25,296 --> 00:56:31,176
but for you, the risk that you're taking, you understand it and you choose to pursue it anyway.

753
00:56:31,996 --> 00:56:36,556
Speculating then is, in my view, I don't know much about it, but there's a lot of hype. I don't

754
00:56:36,556 --> 00:56:41,296
want to have the FOMO of missing out on this. So I'm going to dump some money into it. I think the

755
00:56:41,296 --> 00:56:46,436
treasury companies, I think there are a handful of people who are investing in treasury companies.

756
00:56:46,436 --> 00:56:52,036
I had Mark Moss on our podcast. I think Mark Moss is investing in treasury companies. I'm not a

757
00:56:52,036 --> 00:56:58,096
finance guy. So this stuff is, I don't get it. He does. He is a professional investor,

758
00:56:58,376 --> 00:57:04,196
very well as an investor, and he has conviction in certain treasure. I think I'm not going to

759
00:57:04,196 --> 00:57:11,276
speak for him. My understanding is he has certain convictions in a few treasury companies. I don't

760
00:57:11,276 --> 00:57:16,136
get, I don't care because I don't think treasury companies push the ball forward for Bitcoin.

761
00:57:16,436 --> 00:57:17,716
and it's not a Bitcoin.

762
00:57:17,716 --> 00:57:20,096
And so why would I invest in a treasury company

763
00:57:20,096 --> 00:57:22,976
versus Nvidia or Apple or it's all the same to me.

764
00:57:22,976 --> 00:57:24,856
It's just a bunch of fiat companies.

765
00:57:24,856 --> 00:57:29,136
For, I don't know, 95% of Bitcoiners,

766
00:57:29,136 --> 00:57:31,056
I put that in air quotes,

767
00:57:31,056 --> 00:57:33,136
when they invest in a treasury company,

768
00:57:33,136 --> 00:57:34,816
I think they're purely speculating.

769
00:57:34,816 --> 00:57:36,876
They're hopping on the hype train

770
00:57:36,876 --> 00:57:40,816
and they're hoping that they make 150% recurrence

771
00:57:40,816 --> 00:57:42,956
while Bitcoin only makes 50%.

772
00:57:42,956 --> 00:57:46,436
And it's just like they're YOLOing in.

773
00:57:46,436 --> 00:57:53,696
And to me, it's if you just walk through, what if Saylor gets hit by a bus tomorrow?

774
00:57:54,296 --> 00:57:56,676
Like, is your conviction and strategy still as high?

775
00:57:57,156 --> 00:58:01,756
Here's if Saylor gets hit by a bus tomorrow, my conviction and strategy, which is not very

776
00:58:01,756 --> 00:58:03,236
high anyway, it plummets.

777
00:58:03,236 --> 00:58:06,856
And my conviction in Bitcoin is completely unchanged, right?

778
00:58:06,876 --> 00:58:11,656
It's a globally decentralized, open source monetary protocol, right?

779
00:58:12,156 --> 00:58:16,056
You know, some guy, some guy getting hit by a bus has no impact on that.

780
00:58:16,436 --> 00:58:20,396
Literally anyone could get hit by a bus tomorrow and my conviction in Bitcoin is unchanged.

781
00:58:20,956 --> 00:58:24,516
So there's managerial risk, there's operational risk, execution risk.

782
00:58:24,816 --> 00:58:29,676
So, you know, you like now it's it appears as though he said, never sell your Bitcoin.

783
00:58:29,916 --> 00:58:32,196
And now they might need to sell some of their Bitcoin.

784
00:58:32,456 --> 00:58:36,096
You know, that's that's fine if they think that's the prudent financial decision for the company.

785
00:58:36,096 --> 00:58:39,416
But is that what you as an investor or a speculator signed up for?

786
00:58:39,916 --> 00:58:44,616
Probably not, because all you heard him say for, you know, what, five years now is never sell your Bitcoin.

787
00:58:44,616 --> 00:58:53,236
you've got confiscation risk. I think, you know, 600 plus thousand Bitcoin looks very appealing to a

788
00:58:53,236 --> 00:58:59,536
government that's 30, almost $39 trillion in debt. And if they believe that's going to be a

789
00:58:59,536 --> 00:59:03,916
way of the future, it's trivial. They did it in the 1930s with gold. It would be trivial

790
00:59:03,916 --> 00:59:09,636
for the federal government to intervene and just confiscate Bitcoin from Coinbase Fidelity,

791
00:59:09,636 --> 00:59:15,836
whoever's custodying for strategy. It's your point. It's everything's KYC, right? You're

792
00:59:15,836 --> 00:59:20,656
operating through brokerages. You're only getting access to number go up. Like, dude,

793
00:59:20,696 --> 00:59:24,776
we could spend an hour on the counterparty worth here and the downside of these products.

794
00:59:25,376 --> 00:59:30,016
Maybe you win. Maybe you beat me in fiat terms, but you sure as hell aren't beating me in

795
00:59:30,016 --> 00:59:35,096
self-sovereignty terms. And that's the metric that matters. And to me, to me, maybe you just

796
00:59:35,096 --> 00:59:50,274
about dirty fiat and you want to keep propping up the system that not the game for me So treasury companies are just completely uninteresting personally And then frustratingly a distraction I think for many

797
00:59:50,854 --> 00:59:56,634
as I watch, you know, quote unquote, influencers talking about, oh, they missed the boat on NACA.

798
00:59:56,774 --> 01:00:03,474
And it's like, did you? It's trading for, you know, like, yeah, hopefully you're glad you didn't

799
01:00:03,474 --> 01:00:07,634
get in at $25 now because it's trading for what, 50 cents or something. I'm not, again,

800
01:00:07,634 --> 01:00:10,934
I'm not tracking it closely, but I see the numbers from time to time.

801
01:00:11,654 --> 01:00:17,094
Yeah. Your thoughts are very much aligned with mine. Talking about Bitcoin treasury companies

802
01:00:17,094 --> 01:00:21,914
like we did just then, that's where I find the interest in it because it's not Bitcoin in

803
01:00:21,914 --> 01:00:29,174
self-custody, but to actually go down the rabbit hole or whatever. But I like that saving, investing,

804
01:00:29,174 --> 01:00:34,974
speculating i think that's that that's bang on and um you've got to make sure you know what you're

805
01:00:34,974 --> 01:00:41,514
doing like when you're allocating the the value that you've accrued through your labor what are

806
01:00:41,514 --> 01:00:47,414
you doing with that and if you really understand it you're probably saving or investing depending

807
01:00:47,414 --> 01:00:51,954
on what the technology is and if you really don't understand it but everyone else is getting you

808
01:00:51,954 --> 01:00:57,154
excited about it you're probably speculating yeah yeah the majority of most people and

809
01:00:57,154 --> 01:01:02,694
I don't know ladies and gentlemen it's your money it's your choice do as you wish but just try and

810
01:01:02,694 --> 01:01:08,274
get as much bitcoin and self-custody as humanly possible I give you three years maybe you got a

811
01:01:08,274 --> 01:01:13,694
little bit longer earlier we're sort of saying you're talking about Tony in Lebanon and what

812
01:01:13,694 --> 01:01:18,494
happened with him with the currency collapse and a lot of people in Australia like oh that'll never

813
01:01:18,494 --> 01:01:26,334
happen here and my first reaction is like fuck that won't happen here because in the last five

814
01:01:26,334 --> 01:01:31,774
years, we've lost 50% of our purchasing power already. Like we're already there. It's just not

815
01:01:31,774 --> 01:01:37,434
accelerating as quickly. But, you know, if you had 100 grand five years ago, you still got 100

816
01:01:37,434 --> 01:01:43,954
grand in the bank, but it was buying $50,000 worth of stuff. That's a huge issue. And in my opinion,

817
01:01:44,414 --> 01:01:50,354
and I think it's only going to accelerate and get worse and worse and worse. As the currencies

818
01:01:50,354 --> 01:01:56,154
around the world collapse, you know, and the debts grow higher and higher and higher.

819
01:01:57,154 --> 01:02:01,874
What do you think is going to happen from governments around the world? Because they're

820
01:02:01,874 --> 01:02:06,474
going to see and they're going to know that a lot of people have Bitcoin in self-custody.

821
01:02:07,014 --> 01:02:14,074
Are they going to try to do a 6102? What type of scenarios do you see playing out as things get

822
01:02:14,074 --> 01:02:22,154
more more desperate for the state i think that the i don't know if i would bet on a 61 or two or not

823
01:02:22,154 --> 01:02:27,994
i mean it's on the table like i'm not writing it off i think that what governments are going to do

824
01:02:27,994 --> 01:02:35,394
is they're going to try like bitcoin is is like having a key to the chains that have bound you for

825
01:02:35,394 --> 01:02:41,334
for your whole life and they're going to try to tighten the chains and hope that you don't find

826
01:02:41,334 --> 01:02:47,374
the key. And I think what that means is stable coins are going to turn to CBDCs if they don't

827
01:02:47,374 --> 01:02:53,914
just overtly roll out government issued CBDCs from the start. I think stable coins feel like a nice

828
01:02:53,914 --> 01:02:58,894
trap that they could pull people into because you associate it with crypto and decentralization,

829
01:02:58,894 --> 01:03:05,454
not realizing it's just a centralized entity that's already censoring transactions. I'm talking

830
01:03:05,454 --> 01:03:11,894
about you, Tether? I was going to ask, that just happened recently. Like it's happened a lot with

831
01:03:11,894 --> 01:03:17,594
Tether, but wasn't it just last week that they censored some major transactions? Oh, I don't know.

832
01:03:17,654 --> 01:03:21,774
I might've missed that, but I think it's, I don't think that's something they shy away from.

833
01:03:22,194 --> 01:03:25,874
I think they would, you know, they, they will share that they worked with law enforcement.

834
01:03:25,874 --> 01:03:30,854
I think they've, they've pulled back, pulled back certain transactions, even sort of like Ethereum

835
01:03:30,854 --> 01:03:38,974
did. Wow. So, but I think most people, they think of it as it's, oh, it's crypto. So it's

836
01:03:38,974 --> 01:03:43,994
decentralized, right? I've heard that word a lot of times. And so it's much easier for people to,

837
01:03:44,494 --> 01:03:51,074
and Tether is extremely efficient as a system, right? Because it's centralized, it's very easy

838
01:03:51,074 --> 01:03:56,894
to actually send dollar denominated value around the world borderlessly, not permissionlessly,

839
01:03:56,894 --> 01:04:03,354
obviously, but man, they, they co-opt one of those companies and like Tether with a massive

840
01:04:03,354 --> 01:04:08,614
market share. And suddenly everything you do is surveilled and they get to the side. If you

841
01:04:08,614 --> 01:04:14,314
drove your car around too much, blown too many miles, ordered too much beef, you know, like,

842
01:04:14,454 --> 01:04:19,434
I mean, pick it. And like, those are the ways that I think they can very easily retain people

843
01:04:19,434 --> 01:04:25,414
in this sort of digital prison. And I think it happens slowly. And I mean, it's the frog boiling

844
01:04:25,414 --> 01:04:26,854
in water kind of thing.

845
01:04:26,854 --> 01:04:28,374
You know, I think it's, you don't even know.

846
01:04:28,474 --> 01:04:32,914
And then one day you wake up and the water's at a full boil and it's too late.

847
01:04:32,914 --> 01:04:38,454
Like you, you know, the, the on-ramps, the off-ramps to Bitcoin are closed or it's been

848
01:04:38,454 --> 01:04:40,374
criminalized in some form or fashion.

849
01:04:40,754 --> 01:04:45,674
And, you know, Bitcoiners are living their best life, you know, in something of a, I hate

850
01:04:45,674 --> 01:04:50,394
to say black market, but, you know, just sort of operating kind of independently of the

851
01:04:50,394 --> 01:04:52,434
rest of the world and everyone else.

852
01:04:52,974 --> 01:04:54,474
And the parallel economy.

853
01:04:54,474 --> 01:05:00,054
yeah yeah very much in a parallel economy i haven't seen the movie uh tony keeps referencing

854
01:05:00,054 --> 01:05:06,234
elysium is that is that a movie after tony referenced it like a couple of times i've

855
01:05:06,234 --> 01:05:13,754
watched two movies on this tv screen like all it does is show my logo and holy moly what an

856
01:05:13,754 --> 01:05:19,114
incredible movie but yeah i feel exactly like that after tony kept saying he's like it's going to be

857
01:05:19,114 --> 01:05:24,554
like Elysium and I'm like what's Elysium he's like it's a movie if you're not saying I'm like

858
01:05:24,554 --> 01:05:30,594
no he's like oh you better go watch it if you haven't seen Elysium well worth your time Michael

859
01:05:30,594 --> 01:05:35,714
it's great I'm not I'm not a movie guy but there are neither am I dude I haven't I haven't even

860
01:05:35,714 --> 01:05:40,074
seen V for Vendetta like I think I've neither have I actually oh really okay I've seen the

861
01:05:40,074 --> 01:05:45,054
Matrix that's like the only uh Bitcoin movie uh I've seen the big short I think that's it though

862
01:05:45,054 --> 01:05:46,674
in terms of Bitcoin movies I've watched.

863
01:05:47,194 --> 01:05:47,294
Yeah.

864
01:05:47,574 --> 01:05:50,194
But yeah, I think that's probably the way,

865
01:05:50,494 --> 01:05:52,534
you know, unfortunately it's going to go.

866
01:05:53,014 --> 01:05:55,314
And, you know, the question is how many people

867
01:05:55,314 --> 01:06:00,174
can we get dialed in on this before you're just out of luck, you know?

868
01:06:00,354 --> 01:06:02,294
You know, my hope, and I say that,

869
01:06:02,634 --> 01:06:05,014
I think over a long enough time horizon,

870
01:06:05,254 --> 01:06:09,434
I think Bitcoin brings a new wave of prosperity and freedom to the world.

871
01:06:09,434 --> 01:06:13,514
Because eventually, even if you're in sort of fiat chains

872
01:06:13,514 --> 01:06:16,214
in this hypothetical future that we're talking about.

873
01:06:16,714 --> 01:06:19,214
If you're someone who can provide value to the world

874
01:06:19,214 --> 01:06:22,774
and I have Bitcoin and you would love to earn Bitcoin

875
01:06:22,774 --> 01:06:24,994
and you have something like truly valuable to me,

876
01:06:25,274 --> 01:06:26,154
I'll pay you in Bitcoin.

877
01:06:26,294 --> 01:06:26,954
Like that's what I have.

878
01:06:27,734 --> 01:06:30,394
And then now that person has some Bitcoin.

879
01:06:30,914 --> 01:06:33,214
And then if there's another fiat slave

880
01:06:33,214 --> 01:06:35,154
who can provide them some value,

881
01:06:35,474 --> 01:06:37,314
they'll take Bitcoin as payment.

882
01:06:38,154 --> 01:06:39,994
And I think it begins to sort of,

883
01:06:39,994 --> 01:06:46,874
um my friend uh uh daniel white uh i don't know if you know micro seed um he makes oh yes

884
01:06:46,874 --> 01:06:52,454
yeah so the idea i've partnered with micro seed it's the fucking greatest thing in the world

885
01:06:52,454 --> 01:06:58,094
it's so good man yeah it's dude it's amazing there's a discount code below for everyone it

886
01:06:58,094 --> 01:07:04,734
is just phenomenal 12 or 24 words and a one inch washer that's one inch washer it's amazing but

887
01:07:04,734 --> 01:07:13,254
But anyway, Daniel has a, he sort of frames it as Bitcoin is the antibody that is slowly

888
01:07:13,254 --> 01:07:20,734
overtaking this biological system that we think of as the global economy, I guess.

889
01:07:21,014 --> 01:07:24,914
And it's funny, he and I, he's one of my favorite Bitcoiners.

890
01:07:24,914 --> 01:07:28,094
We tend to disagree every time we talk about it.

891
01:07:28,974 --> 01:07:31,654
But I think he's onto it with this.

892
01:07:31,654 --> 01:07:36,254
I think how he views it playing out versus how I view it, it will play out in the future

893
01:07:36,254 --> 01:07:37,014
are a bit different.

894
01:07:37,214 --> 01:07:43,014
But I do think like Bitcoin will ultimately serve as the antibody for this diseased body

895
01:07:43,014 --> 01:07:45,394
that is the global economy today.

896
01:07:46,354 --> 01:07:51,474
When you first said Daniel's last name, when I think of Daniel, I just think of Daniel

897
01:07:51,474 --> 01:07:52,794
21E15.

898
01:07:53,574 --> 01:07:53,814
Yeah.

899
01:07:54,014 --> 01:07:54,934
Like every time.

900
01:07:55,114 --> 01:07:56,794
I'm like, who the hell are you talking about?

901
01:07:56,974 --> 01:07:58,114
But yeah, what a guy.

902
01:07:58,114 --> 01:08:01,554
If you haven't seen that podcast, Rob and Sire and Daniel and I did together.

903
01:08:01,654 --> 01:08:08,354
as fun as. I agree with you. And like that point of not being able to get Bitcoin in self-custody,

904
01:08:08,394 --> 01:08:14,794
I truly give it three years. Like if you're wrong or I'm wrong, but people have Bitcoin in self-custody,

905
01:08:15,414 --> 01:08:19,574
it actually doesn't matter. Like it's still number go up technology. It's sovereign money.

906
01:08:19,574 --> 01:08:26,214
It's freedom money. So you get all the benefits of that. But if shit does hit the fan and it turns

907
01:08:26,214 --> 01:08:32,334
into George Orwell's 1984 or whatever, it's too late a day after or an hour after.

908
01:08:32,554 --> 01:08:35,794
You can't possibly do it at that stage.

909
01:08:35,894 --> 01:08:38,874
So you're better to be, you know, a couple of years early

910
01:08:38,874 --> 01:08:41,694
or you could be a couple of weeks or a couple of months early.

911
01:08:41,814 --> 01:08:44,874
Like who knows with the political landscape at the moment,

912
01:08:44,874 --> 01:08:47,554
like politics in Australia are pretty crazy.

913
01:08:47,934 --> 01:08:51,774
You know, what we see in regards to the US seems pretty great.

914
01:08:51,774 --> 01:08:58,014
The whole world just seems pretty crazy because it's based on fear and I think it's going to get worse.

915
01:08:58,714 --> 01:08:59,674
I want to flip gears.

916
01:08:59,834 --> 01:09:01,714
It's something that I'm pretty interested about.

917
01:09:01,894 --> 01:09:05,794
My wife is a little bit older than me, so we're not going to be able to have kids.

918
01:09:06,034 --> 01:09:10,374
That door in our life is well and truly shut.

919
01:09:10,474 --> 01:09:17,854
But I do believe that especially Bitcoiners, because they're going to have the capacity, their critical thinking, they're also going to have the wealth.

920
01:09:18,214 --> 01:09:21,514
Kids aren't that cheap to be able to raise, to be able to raise right.

921
01:09:21,514 --> 01:09:32,154
But it's one common thing that I've seen within like a lot of Bitcoiners is Brian DeMint, Daniel Prince, and yourself, it sounds like you're homeschooling your kids.

922
01:09:32,534 --> 01:09:33,754
What's that journey been like?

923
01:09:33,774 --> 01:09:36,474
And have you been homeschooling them even before Bitcoin?

924
01:09:37,214 --> 01:09:39,894
No, that's a post-Bitcoin thing.

925
01:09:40,314 --> 01:09:40,794
Nice.

926
01:09:41,194 --> 01:09:43,774
I think we would have been interested in it regardless.

927
01:09:44,094 --> 01:09:46,394
I think we're all in at this point.

928
01:09:46,514 --> 01:09:48,714
My oldest is only in first grade.

929
01:09:48,834 --> 01:09:49,814
So she's seven.

930
01:09:50,054 --> 01:09:50,874
So we're still very new.

931
01:09:50,874 --> 01:09:54,574
like we're really only two years into the homeschooling journey. One thing for me that I,

932
01:09:55,314 --> 01:10:00,854
you know, we kind of talked about the, I guess the division of labor between my wife and I,

933
01:10:01,014 --> 01:10:06,454
and the more I sort of learn and grow in my conviction about a number of things,

934
01:10:07,154 --> 01:10:12,814
the, and hopefully, you know, I, as much as I'm happy with sovereign self-sovereign money,

935
01:10:12,914 --> 01:10:17,134
you know, eventually I'd love the number to go up just because it would allow me

936
01:10:17,134 --> 01:10:23,894
more financial freedom to spend time with my son. So he's, he's almost five. And I think boys and

937
01:10:23,894 --> 01:10:29,274
girls need to be educated differently. I mean, I think the basics of all that stuff, I think is

938
01:10:29,274 --> 01:10:35,294
great. One of my concerns I told my wife is I can't believe I'm saying some of this stuff on a

939
01:10:35,294 --> 01:10:40,574
podcast. I'm usually a little more measured. I said, you know, my problem. So right now my son

940
01:10:40,574 --> 01:10:46,294
is in like preschool. So he, he goes to like a small private school, the values aligned,

941
01:10:46,294 --> 01:10:50,154
like a couple of days a week for a couple of hours sort of thing. It's like fun for him,

942
01:10:50,294 --> 01:10:53,554
socializing, that kind of thing. But once next year, when he starts kindergarten, that's when

943
01:10:53,554 --> 01:10:59,054
we start homeschooling him. But I told my wife, I said, I don't like the, I don't know what the

944
01:10:59,054 --> 01:11:05,714
breakdown is, but basically like 90% of teachers are women. And I was like, that's awesome for my

945
01:11:05,714 --> 01:11:10,954
daughter. Like that, great. Like I want her to learn from, you know, first of all, my wife,

946
01:11:11,434 --> 01:11:15,574
first and foremost, I want her to be like my wife and not like some other woman. But in general,

947
01:11:15,574 --> 01:11:21,334
like at the little school that my son goes to, perfectly comfortable with the character,

948
01:11:21,734 --> 01:11:26,334
the philosophy of the school. I don't have an issue with those women interacting with my

949
01:11:26,334 --> 01:11:30,974
daughter on a daily basis, but I'm obviously happy that we're not anyway, and she's homeschooling.

950
01:11:31,394 --> 01:11:37,754
I was like, I don't want my son going and being taught all day, every day, and influenced for

951
01:11:37,754 --> 01:11:45,394
seven hours a day by women. I want him to be influenced by men, predominantly good men,

952
01:11:45,394 --> 01:11:52,714
who want his, you know, the best for him and expect the best from him. And, you know, there's a,

953
01:11:52,894 --> 01:11:58,694
there's a great Steve Harvey video that I watched recently. I sent to my wife, he was talking about

954
01:11:58,694 --> 01:12:06,134
how, when his dad died, he realized that the only man on earth who wanted Steve to be better than

955
01:12:06,134 --> 01:12:11,654
him had died. Every other man wants you to, you know, like, you know, like, you know, my best

956
01:12:11,654 --> 01:12:15,114
friend, I love him. I want, you know, something great for him, but I don't want him to be better

957
01:12:15,114 --> 01:12:20,274
than me, right? My son, I want him to be better than me. I want him to be orders of magnitude

958
01:12:20,274 --> 01:12:25,354
better than me. And I'm the only man on earth who wants that for him. And so when it comes to

959
01:12:25,354 --> 01:12:32,734
homeschooling, my intention is for me to be much more involved in my son's education and my wife

960
01:12:32,734 --> 01:12:37,894
to be much more involved in my daughter's education, because I want them to be reflections of us,

961
01:12:38,374 --> 01:12:44,114
reflections of who we strive to be, and then to, you know, soar far beyond anything that my wife

962
01:12:44,114 --> 01:12:49,694
and I are. And I think that's probably the only way we can do it. And you can't handpick teachers

963
01:12:49,694 --> 01:12:54,194
the way that, you know, and certainly not in public schools, but even in private schools,

964
01:12:54,194 --> 01:12:58,954
you're kind of stuck with who you've got. And I'd rather me be teaching my son the things I want him

965
01:12:58,954 --> 01:13:03,214
to learn. And certainly I'll be teaching him very different things than he would ever learn in a

966
01:13:03,214 --> 01:13:09,514
formal educational environment. But I want my daughter to learn from my wife. And I sort of

967
01:13:09,514 --> 01:13:13,814
had some, I was like, man, am I, am I off on this? Am I, is this like too traditional? But

968
01:13:13,814 --> 01:13:17,754
the more I think about it, I think there's, there's a lot to be said, you know, I would have

969
01:13:17,754 --> 01:13:22,614
benefited from being homeschooled by my dad specifically. And I think my sister would have

970
01:13:22,614 --> 01:13:27,694
benefited from being homeschooled by my mom specifically. And, you know, there's, you know,

971
01:13:27,734 --> 01:13:32,454
you're kind of mixing and matching and sharing different skills and, and that sort of thing along

972
01:13:32,454 --> 01:13:38,134
the way, certainly. But like homeschool for me is, it's, it's like a non-negotiable at this point.

973
01:13:38,134 --> 01:13:40,614
And I think it's going to evolve immensely.

974
01:13:41,114 --> 01:13:43,014
And I'm trying to take notes from guys like Daniel.

975
01:13:44,014 --> 01:13:45,914
He's like very unstructured.

976
01:13:46,614 --> 01:13:49,914
And he's given me some good book recommendations I need to dive into.

977
01:13:50,234 --> 01:13:53,314
But yeah, that's kind of where my head's at the moment.

978
01:13:54,294 --> 01:13:58,454
Daniel's like a walking encyclopedia with book references.

979
01:13:58,894 --> 01:13:59,374
Oh, yeah.

980
01:14:00,414 --> 01:14:02,034
Just absolutely amazing.

981
01:14:02,754 --> 01:14:06,234
Like when you're saying this, I'm just thinking in the back of my head,

982
01:14:06,234 --> 01:14:13,234
oh my god somebody's gonna say he is so misogynistic with with his views about that

983
01:14:13,234 --> 01:14:20,014
yeah but when you go down like think critically about it it just makes sense like it's just

984
01:14:20,014 --> 01:14:27,374
common sense do you think within bitcoin like we're going to go through this this like really

985
01:14:27,374 --> 01:14:31,694
rough time and i think it's going to happen roughly within the next three years the big

986
01:14:31,694 --> 01:14:37,674
print, digital IDs, CBDCs. It's just going to be fucking chaotic as well. But however long it takes

987
01:14:37,674 --> 01:14:42,374
to transition to the other side, I'm not saying we're going to transition onto a Bitcoin standard

988
01:14:42,374 --> 01:14:46,774
after the next dystopian three years. I don't think that's going to happen.

989
01:14:47,374 --> 01:14:54,094
I think this could be like way down the track, 15, 20, 30 years plus. But as Bitcoin becomes the

990
01:14:54,094 --> 01:14:59,954
world denominator, the new morale, do you think some of these maybe conservative or traditional

991
01:14:59,954 --> 01:15:04,914
values are going to be able to come back. Men are going to be allowed to be strong. Women are going

992
01:15:04,914 --> 01:15:10,714
to be allowed to be women. Kids can just be kids and we can get rid of a little bit of the nonsense

993
01:15:10,714 --> 01:15:16,734
or do you just think the world's too far gone? No, I think it'll be a requirement that we vacate

994
01:15:16,734 --> 01:15:22,134
some of these nonsensical first century ideas because I think at least when we reach a Bitcoin

995
01:15:22,134 --> 01:15:29,214
standard, the only way to earn a living is to be competent, is to provide real world value.

996
01:15:29,214 --> 01:15:37,794
And today you can, you know, get by with not providing much real world value and still be employed and get health insurance and, you know, save a little bit.

997
01:15:37,994 --> 01:15:41,554
And I think on a sound money standard, that no longer becomes an option.

998
01:15:41,734 --> 01:15:49,874
I think it's going to be a painful transition because there's going to be a generation or two of people who are still alive of working age when that happens, who haven't acquired any skills.

999
01:15:50,634 --> 01:15:54,274
And now are suddenly trying to figure out what do I do?

1000
01:15:54,334 --> 01:15:58,154
No one's going to part ways with their Bitcoin for anything I have to offer.

1001
01:15:58,154 --> 01:16:00,034
And that's going to be, it's going to be messy.

1002
01:16:00,234 --> 01:16:12,214
But I think on the other side of that is a generation that grows up realizing I can't be fat and weak and I can't be stupid and I can't spend my entire life just playing video games and eating whatever I want to eat.

1003
01:16:12,374 --> 01:16:14,494
And because no one's coming to save me.

1004
01:16:14,494 --> 01:16:18,354
Like right now there is someone kind of coming to save you, right?

1005
01:16:18,394 --> 01:16:24,394
Like they'll, they'll shoot you up with those Olympic or they'll, you know, send you a welfare check or whatever.

1006
01:16:24,394 --> 01:16:45,634
And on a sound money standard, it's no longer an option. I mean, quite literally. And I think because of that, we're going to have, it's going to, the people who, you know, the people who choose not to care for themselves, who choose not to accumulate skills that are useful in the world, I think are going to suffer.

1007
01:16:45,634 --> 01:16:55,874
And, you know, hopefully there are good, generous, charitable people who, you know, will choose to help them, train them, you know, teach a man to fish kind of thing.

1008
01:16:56,214 --> 01:16:58,354
But in the interim, I think it's going to be messy.

1009
01:16:58,474 --> 01:17:04,814
But I think we'll get to that point where the expectation is you're competent, you're respectful, you're strong, capable.

1010
01:17:05,654 --> 01:17:13,754
And I think that's going to be a I think I think what Bitcoin really does on that is I'm not a fix the money, fix the world guy anymore.

1011
01:17:13,754 --> 01:17:16,834
I'm a fix the incentives, fix the world guy.

1012
01:17:17,014 --> 01:17:19,274
I think Bitcoin fixes a lot of the broken incentives.

1013
01:17:19,594 --> 01:17:22,274
At the end of the day, though, it always comes down to human action.

1014
01:17:22,834 --> 01:17:29,734
There will still be people who choose to be lazy or fat or to not produce value, even on a Bitcoin standard.

1015
01:17:30,154 --> 01:17:36,094
And they're just going to suffer in a way that they've been able to sort of skate by on a fiat standard.

1016
01:17:37,154 --> 01:17:37,314
Yep.

1017
01:17:38,174 --> 01:17:42,734
I guess on that note, ladies and gentlemen, get Bitcoin into self custody.

1018
01:17:42,734 --> 01:17:45,094
if you want to connect with the Bitcoin way.

1019
01:17:45,214 --> 01:17:46,714
Again, the first 30 minutes is free.

1020
01:17:46,854 --> 01:17:48,634
I've linked them at the top of the description.

1021
01:17:48,854 --> 01:17:50,314
They're always the first link.

1022
01:17:50,474 --> 01:17:52,614
But Michael, I just want to hand it over,

1023
01:17:52,834 --> 01:17:53,954
take a minute or so.

1024
01:17:54,094 --> 01:17:56,574
If you've got a final message for the audience,

1025
01:17:56,674 --> 01:17:57,954
anything top of mind,

1026
01:17:58,454 --> 01:18:00,474
and we'll see everyone on the next video.

1027
01:18:01,114 --> 01:18:02,574
Yeah, well, first of all, Sean,

1028
01:18:02,614 --> 01:18:03,714
thank you so much for having me.

1029
01:18:03,734 --> 01:18:04,494
It's been a blast.

1030
01:18:04,494 --> 01:18:06,434
I think I've opened up on this podcast

1031
01:18:06,434 --> 01:18:07,734
more than several of the others.

1032
01:18:08,174 --> 01:18:09,634
Hopefully you don't get canceled

1033
01:18:09,634 --> 01:18:12,574
and hopefully people aren't too hateful.

1034
01:18:12,734 --> 01:18:15,754
Yeah, well, first of all, I'd just love to say, you know, follow me.

1035
01:18:15,894 --> 01:18:19,434
I'm mostly active on Twitter, whatever we're calling it.

1036
01:18:19,534 --> 01:18:20,934
It's at the other M Jordan.

1037
01:18:21,214 --> 01:18:22,794
If you want to link to that in the description.

1038
01:18:22,994 --> 01:18:23,954
I will for sure.

1039
01:18:24,054 --> 01:18:24,754
I'll put all your links.

1040
01:18:25,034 --> 01:18:26,234
Go check out the Bitcoin way.

1041
01:18:27,154 --> 01:18:31,154
As a client turned employee, I can't say enough good things.

1042
01:18:31,154 --> 01:18:32,974
I've never been happier in my work.

1043
01:18:33,014 --> 01:18:35,114
And it's not just because I like the guys.

1044
01:18:35,254 --> 01:18:35,694
I do.

1045
01:18:35,934 --> 01:18:36,554
I love the guys.

1046
01:18:36,694 --> 01:18:39,614
But what we're doing is I think something truly special and incredible.

1047
01:18:40,214 --> 01:18:42,634
Everyone should take full self custody of their Bitcoin.

1048
01:18:42,734 --> 01:18:50,254
And the last thing I'd say is we talked about Treasury Co's and all the noise amongst the little bit of signal.

1049
01:18:50,514 --> 01:18:53,434
What I always like to say is that the yield on Bitcoin is freedom.

1050
01:18:55,734 --> 01:18:56,454
Love it.

1051
01:18:56,694 --> 01:19:01,734
When that begins to resonate and you internalize that, I think amazing things happen.

1052
01:19:01,834 --> 01:19:02,974
Your life changes for the better.

1053
01:19:03,634 --> 01:19:06,494
And I hope everyone listening can reach that point.

1054
01:19:07,034 --> 01:19:09,554
Mate, it's been absolutely amazing.

1055
01:19:09,554 --> 01:19:11,494
I have seconded that wrap up there.

1056
01:19:11,494 --> 01:19:14,654
But for everyone out there, all Michael's links are below.

1057
01:19:15,014 --> 01:19:16,054
Connect with the Bitcoin way.

1058
01:19:16,154 --> 01:19:18,454
The free survey, it's freaking amazing.

1059
01:19:18,774 --> 01:19:19,914
It's just do it.

1060
01:19:20,014 --> 01:19:24,134
Find out where you stand with your self-custody setup, the newsletter.

1061
01:19:24,574 --> 01:19:27,494
And then, of course, go out, do something nice for yourself today

1062
01:19:27,494 --> 01:19:28,894
for somebody else out there.

1063
01:19:29,014 --> 01:19:29,594
Be blessed.

1064
01:19:29,954 --> 01:19:30,234
Peace.