They're constantly asking this question, when is Bitcoin going to go up?
Buy a whole bunch that can free me enough, but I'm not in it anymore.
I'm still in it.
But I'm curious how you see this projecting out into the future.
Which destroys all of the other models.
And an asset within a control system would have to be captured eventually.
Most people are pricing Bitcoin as an asset when the opposite is true.
Most people are pricing Bitcoin as an asset within a control system, right?
And that asset within a control system would have to be captured eventually
if that was a good case.
Just like gold was captured, just like everything was captured
inside a control system where prices go up forever.
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All right, now let's get back into this great interview.
Bing bong! I am back with another edition of the State of Bitcoin podcast where I've got the man, the myth, the legend, recurring guest Jeff Booth in the house.
But Jeff, we've got a lot of craziness going on in the overall world with AI colliding heavily with Bitcoin.
And all up until we've got Uptober here in a couple days with a lot to look forward to in the next couple of months.
But Jeff, I want to start it off here really quick because a lot of people are talking about the potential of the price action,
the Bitcoin strategic reserve, and how we're seeing the mix of these two technologies.
Now, with Bitcoin just being that finite, scarce asset, how do you see this playing out over time with essentially all of these treasury companies coming on?
Do you see the potential of this thing really taking off in the next few months with the amount of adoption we're seeing?
Is this the suddenly aspect where we're going to see that hockey stick type of movement here right now?
So just the question alone. So if you're talking price action within the US context, potentially, I don't look at it that way. And I think you know that, right? I keep coming back to people are mismeasuring this and completely mismeasuring this.
The natural state of the free market is deflation. A decentralized secure protocol bounded by energy is measuring exactly what I just described. That protocol is measuring all prices falling forever. So your Bitcoin is increasing in value versus other things instead of in a piece of paper measuring other things.
and so when you when you and and it could look the same to both uh to both people but but think
about what the majority of even bitcoiners are doing and your question and impose it actually
says at its root most people are pricing bitcoin as an asset within a control system
right and that asset within a control system would have to be captured eventually if that was
a good case just like gold was captured just like everything's been captured inside a control system
where prices go up forever right so the the what you're saying inside of that it is is i believe
in i'm going to get rich inside this control system by holding bitcoin and measuring it from
the perspective of the control system say the us dollar right and that might be true for a while
Well, you could coexist in that, but it's incompatible with the free market.
Because the free market prices fall because you're a part of the free market.
You only choose things that give you more value.
So when you say the AI intersection, AI is a massive productivity boost,
which means prices should fall faster and faster and faster as jobs are removed.
But that can't happen from the control system.
it has to steal that productivity by manipulating money faster and faster.
And when you measure from that control system, you're a part of it.
You're making that happen.
So that system has to, because these are fundamentally different propositions.
So if it's an asset within a control system,
you might get rich in essentially something that would look like a dystopian surveillance state
where you now have all the money and everybody else doesn't.
A different proposition would be it's a protocol.
It's an open, decentralized, secure protocol bounded by energy.
And from that viewpoint, it's outside of the control system.
It makes sense?
Yeah.
But in both of those things, it's either one or the other.
It can't be both.
Yeah, and I definitely see it trending in the one direction with AI and productivity kind of taking over.
I don't know if you've seen this recent stat, but recent college graduates, specifically males, are the most unemployed that they've ever been because AI is taking a lot of those entry-level jobs.
whether it's like an analyst or something else, because the higher ups can now be a little bit more efficient with their time.
Now, with this kind of, I guess, collision happening, do you think that with the education system where it is,
it almost seems like the average male or person in general coming out of college to get a well-paying job
needs to be at least, quote unquote, more qualified or something needs to collapse.
I mean, we've had almost a million jobs written down in the recent revisions here, the most
in history.
So I'm looking at this current system and the way that AI is, you know, everybody was
worried about AI taking jobs and they were always talking about the lower jobs.
But it seems like those middle tier jobs are almost, you know, becoming way more efficient
where the lower kind of entry-level type of positions
are just making it harder and harder on that younger class.
Yeah, so Brandon, this is...
AI right now is the worst it will ever be.
Prices of AI, the quality is exploding
and the price is falling and falling and falling
because prices fall to the marginal cost of production.
And some of the big LLMs that are doing everything else are being replaced by agents doing a specific task and then married with another agent doing a different specific task and another one doing a specific task.
Like the division of labor in humans, but like it's a different division of labor of the AIs.
And the division of labor at the AIs don't require the big model.
right so those are literally free and they happen and now you string together that division of labor
over and over and over again and those ais are way better than any person any single thing you
could teach a human you can teach this better faster works all the time and it's free then you
string another agent with the other agent to do a different task and another agent and you have a
swarm of agents that is your, your, your business. Um, so when people, when people think that,
that any job is safe over the long run with what's coming, they're deluding themselves,
completely delusional. And, but what you're, what you're describing is the fear that from
the control system, you have this more and more of these people are so scared of the thing that's
It's destroying, because the thing that's consolidating into the control system, they're voting for, they believe that there's an enemy within that.
And it's dividing them and they're fighting more or saying it's Republicans, it's Democrats, it's this, it's this, it's China, it's Ukraine.
And all of that makes the control system stronger.
All of it.
Because you're feeding your energy into a system that's exploiting you,
feeding off your energy to make prices go up.
When the opposite is true.
That's why I keep saying over and over and over again
that the natural state of the free market is deflation.
What would you expect to see?
You would expect to see as the jobs got removed
and you used the same technology that removed the job
because you got more value, prices would fall by that amount.
So you wouldn't need the job anymore.
But what people keep doing is they keep on, okay, yeah, that's true.
Nod to your head.
Yep, yep.
And then go back and spending all of their time measuring that
from the control system.
And they're confused, right?
Because their whole life is inside the control system.
And they don't know they can just move their time and energy
into the new system and expand a positive force for all of humanity, where 8 billion people are
in service of 8 billion people. So they're stuck in the fear and the coercion and the control and
the centralization and the surveillance. All of that is a derivative of breaking free markets
that has to get worse and worse and worse. And everybody inside that derivative is looking for
a solution from the same system creating the problem. They don't know it. So they're caught.
They're caught constantly asking this question or caught asking the same question you did.
When is Bitcoin going to go up by a whole bunch that can free me enough that I'm not in it anymore,
but I'm still in it if I'm measuring from that.
So then the new measuring stick needs to be on Bitcoin opposed to the current just financial
dollar realm, right? Because the construct of the financial realm of the US dollar is a debt-based
system that must have inflation. That has to, mathematically has to be, the debt is loaned into
existence and you create a structural mathematical structure that has to fight against the free
market. First, you have to regulate, then creates monopolies, then creates more.
And then, and the government gets bigger the entire time because it has to keep on creating
more money mathematically or, or deflation collapses that system to zero.
It can't allow the free market because the free market is deflationary.
And what you're doing with all of your actions, what you're doing, like what you're doing on
Riverside right now, touching a whole bunch of other people, you wouldn't use Riverside
unless it was providing you more value.
and people wouldn't be watching this unless it was providing them more value.
The natural state of the free market is you can't get paid more
unless you provide more value than other people.
But that's a complete brain break from the world we live in, right,
and measure everything from.
And so, yes, Bitcoin has to be, it's either a protocol,
it's being used as all money is, is an abstract concept for our time.
So if you, if, if you, it's for our trade between people.
So if you take that abstract concept and take,
and you manipulate that abstract concept,
you have to manipulate our time.
And if people are measuring from that concept of their measure,
they're manipulating their time, thinking they're getting rich,
they're just getting, they're inside the system still
in a zero sum game that has to get worse.
they're contributing to the to the world they fear most and they think it's somebody else but
it's them so so why this why this is so hard to to uh to to see it's so easy to to believe in
your own nonsense you'd be like so someone something matches your your belief of the world
a perceived reality of the world it's easier to attract to attach your beliefs onto that
than something that would be new and challenging your cognitive dissonance.
All of the things you formerly believed were true that have to change
because something imposed a new objective reality.
That's what's happening in Bitcoin.
You have a new objective reality, a decentralized secure protocol bounded by energy
that is imposing a new discipline.
but people are still measuring it from their own,
through their perceived reality and trying to mesh these two thoughts together in their brain.
So it would be natural for them to believe because they've always seen prices go up
and it would be an asset. Now I have a good asset or a good trade. It would be easy. It'd be way
easier to say that's what's happening and it would feed back than the natural state of the
free market is deflation because we've never seen that reality.
Yeah. And that's always interesting because, of course, you've got the classic,
like how much Bitcoin do you need to hold over time? But with this deflationary cycle that
you're talking about now it seems like we're kind of like having a cross of the worlds right now with
the deflationary aspect of bitcoin obviously it's going up in the fiat terms but if you look at all
assets housing you know even retirement accounts now can now hold bitcoin uh but the fiat you know
it's just accelerating so much how do you view the collision of these two worlds does the fiat
So the system need to have an epic collapse in order for us to get to that hyper Bitcoinized world and for us to all convert We wouldn let wouldn we wouldn let it happen so let just so so no government in history going back to rome right um has ever allowed
the free market to work for a long time because because if you allow the free market to work which
is deflationary and all of the credit which is the basis of the system all of the credit fails
as does the basis of the system of living for everybody. So you wouldn't allow that to happen.
You would vote, you'd rise on the streets, you'd march on the streets and you'd vote in some
dictator who would print money and steal your individual rights and freedoms to save you,
because they could save you by printing money. So we don't see our own agency. That's the problem.
And so because of that, we think it's somebody else, but it's us acting within that system just in what would be perfectly normal trying to solve our own problems from that system.
And there is no way to solve the credit-based system from the credit-based system.
It's impossible, right?
Because that system has to objectively, mathematically, it has to steal productivity from the free market and change what was a free market into a nonsense control crony capitalism, socialism.
It has to be one of the other.
And it has to get worse and worse and worse.
And from that new system, all of the people's belief inside that system thinks there's somebody else that's the problem.
And they don't want to say that it's them.
when they could just move their time and energy into a true free market.
They stay there.
So what does that say about us?
It doesn't say anything about Bitcoin.
It says something about us.
And what we're talking about right now is probably where I spent the most time
trying to think of where Bitcoin's vulnerabilities are
because I knew it would be us that would be the vulnerabilities
from that control system.
It would be our inability to see it was us and it was our change
and then move our time and energy to the new system
to be able to expand the new system.
And every single human would have to go through that process
and the cognitive dissonance of going through that process
to choose which version of reality did they want to live in.
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And it's a choice every single person is going to have to make over time.
But I don't think there's going to be an epic collapse or reset of the system unless it could
be a global war that would create that. And that's probably a high probability out of that. How do
you reduce that probability? How do you increase the probability of something different happening?
you spend more time in the emergent system that's healing the other system.
And every single person has that choice.
Yeah. And it seems like, you know, every person that you talk to,
even just in the normie world,
it seems like everybody's starting to lose more and more faith by the day of
the current system. So it almost seems like, you know,
we're getting in onboarding more Bitcoiners by the day. And, you know, this is starting to
accelerate just adoption in general, especially, you know, when we're seeing the the treasury
companies, you know, now you're going to have to have the finance bros like really just look at
Bitcoin as an asset and dive into it a little bit more. And I think once you get that initial
touch point and start diving into Bitcoin, that's where we start to see that these free markets
really start to accelerate and start to take over and swallow up the current system.
Now, when we're seeing the massive amounts of adoption from these treasury companies,
is this just, I guess, a part of it?
Or do you think that this takes away from essentially the free market, so to speak?
because we have essentially a lot of zombie companies
or people just utilizing debt to buy up Bitcoin at this point,
hoping that the number goes up.
But is that essentially just missing the whole point?
Yeah, so it is missing the whole point.
Now, I'm not saying anything against the treasury companies.
There's some really great companies in there.
MicroStrategy created a really interesting,
using pure Roshard's essentially hacking the existing system. I think they've done a good
job. Metaplan has done a good job and some others. So I have nothing against that idea,
but it's a free market idea. Effectively, what they're doing is levering their balance sheet
to acquire more Bitcoin. And if they don't get flushed out on an epic drawdown, then they could
do that for a long time. I personally think though that over time, what you're going to see is a
transition from that model to cash flows in Bitcoin and companies that are accepting Bitcoin.
Because today's trade, every single company has to essentially pay 2.5% rent-seeking fee to Visa,
or MasterCard or a bank to accept payments in a currency that's losing value.
And objectively, that makes no sense.
When there's a protocol that they can accept money that has no fees
or very minimal fees in a currency that's increasing value.
So you're going to see this switch from the free market
is going to drive that. And where would it drive it first? It would drive it in, I use two and a
half to 3% because that would be US where I am now or Canada. But in countries where it's seven
and a half to 10% and their currency is losing money faster, you'd expect to see it there first,
which is exactly what you're seeing. So you have this emergent new free market that those businesses
that accept Bitcoin and transition to this and then hold Bitcoin.
And they will be able to offer more value in the businesses that don't.
And the users will go to the companies that offer more value.
And those businesses will also integrate AI.
And the users will use those businesses that use AI.
Because if they don't, they won't be businesses anymore.
So this is just, we are so, so crazy early.
in what we're talking about. And most people still today think their only way to play that exposure
is to play in a derivative instrument of a company holding Bitcoin instead of them.
And that applies more risk, right? So you're taking additional risk by not holding in self-custody
on the belief somebody is going to hold it better for you.
It seems like Bitcoin is essentially revolutionizing finance, to say the very least.
I mean, on this whole note, we're seeing nearly 200 publicly traded companies now with Bitcoin on the balance sheet.
Some have good underlying businesses, but it seems like as you're describing all of this,
is this going to change the way that finance in general is going to be run?
I mean, we have the S&P 500 right now where it's essentially the MAG 7 and then the S&P 493 is essentially flat and not really doing anything.
And so these seven companies have just become so top heavy.
More of these companies that have Bitcoin on the balance sheet, we already see Coinbase, Block, you know, Tesla that have Bitcoin on the balance sheet are going to start to infiltrate that S&P 500.
So, you know, I've had some recent conversations with some traditional financial guys who are looking at this and AI and saying, hey, you know, if you use AI similar to what Michael Saylor is doing, like creating financial instruments to provide more value to your shareholders to increase that Bitcoin exposure.
and then also like accepting Bitcoin.
It seems like this is just a no-brainer
where Bitcoin is going to take over finance,
the financial world as we know it pretty soon
and create almost that free market.
But on the flip side of things,
we're also seeing a lot of Bitcoin companies
who are anti or maybe not anti,
but not rushing to go public as quickly.
So I'm curious as with your experience with ego death
and kind of the pull between going public or staying private
and accumulating Bitcoin on the balance sheet.
How are you looking at that?
And how are you seeing the financial world kind of revolutionized with Bitcoin?
Yeah, so again, we are so crazy early on this.
If you had a regulatory framework that most people trusted your regulatory framework
and inside that regulatory framework, you were collecting Bitcoin in the balance sheet,
but still pricing in US dollars, then that Bitcoin on your balance sheet would be subject
eventually to that regulatory framework. If that regulatory framework was a control system
that couldn't allow that free market, then that regulatory framework would eventually
capture your Bitcoin. It would have to, just like gold has always been captured and repriced.
It would have to. So what I'm saying is the risk of people doing that inside a regulatory
framework. How you can do that, I own MicroStrategy. I think Michael Saylor is brilliant.
But I certainly wouldn't do that for all of my investment.
It's a tiny piece of my overall strategy,
and I would rather self-custody and understand what's happening.
Same thing is now true for each company that you're building.
If you're building a Bitcoin-denominated business
and you're accruing more Bitcoin on your balance sheet each month,
why do you need to go public?
yeah i mean originally it was just to to get access more capital but it seems like if you
have bitcoin that lasts longer you know it has that deflationary um you know the capital yeah
the capital is exploding in value because it's true it's it's a protocol this bull run i think
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Enough from me. Let's get back to the show. And so you don't need any more money, right?
You don't need the... So the only reason you would do it is exit to somebody else.
but but in time you won't need to exit you could actually add uh you you could provide dividends
from that um from that business that's driving that that value and this is exploding all around
the world from from the new operating system which is bitcoin which is which which destroys
all of the other models. It's incompatible with the other models. And which is why when I said
all money is, is an abstract concept for trade between us, then you don't need to convert it
into manipulated trade between us to be able to have success in it. You keep it as an abstract
trade between us and prices fall against it forever.
So eventually all these prices are going to essentially decline with everything
going around in Bitcoin, obviously with that deflationary.
But I curious how you see this projecting out into the future as like Bitcoin gets adopted Yeah I had a conversation with Mark Moss who kind of lined out Bitcoin on this 50 year cycle where the first 10 years is you know kind of the plebs
adopting the second 10 years, which is what we're in right now seeing those institutions adopt.
The third 10 years is when we'll get governments, then we'll get medium of exchange,
then we'll get unit of account. I'm curious how you see this timeline essentially playing out.
if you see it similarly or if you see it rapidly accelerating
or maybe taking a little bit longer.
First, I really love Mark, but I disagree with him on this.
Because Bitcoin is, when you're saying something like this,
what you're saying is, what does the average look like to everyone?
Here's what this is, here's what this is.
There will be pubs coming in in 30 years.
there will be all of these meshed together. There'll be corporations that miss the boat
that aren't corporations anymore because they'll get wiped out. The governments inside of what
we're talking about in Bitcoin have to become smaller because the productivity flows to society
instead of getting siphoned out of society and making governments bigger.
So all of these things mesh together in this crazy, unorthodox, chaotic transition.
And the transition looks different for every person measuring it.
So how do I measure it?
I measure it as Bitcoin is a protocol and prices are falling against it forever.
And from that measure, I look for value in companies that are creating more value in the free market.
to be able to deliver abundance away from this control system. And because there's so much
misunderstanding of this, there's a crazy amount of value to create to help people
move over. And so my reflection of the world is a reflection of the world that I see every day.
And it's so exciting. But would you measure me as a government, corporation, person?
And it's illogical.
It's in the individual moving their time,
essentially bending the future with their actions
into the world that they see.
And that's going to happen in any corporation
or any government or any group of people.
It's just some of the group of people
with a mission to do something.
And they all change too
as they come to understand what this looks like differently.
What makes me really positive about this is
what does the free market value?
The free market values giving more value to other people.
So you ran in your website, in your podcast,
that's exploding.
It couldn't explode unless you were valuable
to a whole bunch of other people.
that's why you're having so much success is exactly what you're just that describe it why
would that look like that because you understand you're at the edge of this understanding
and helping other people understand it even through our conversation right now
you're at the edge of the understanding of a something that 99.9 percent of people don't
understand they're trapped in this other system and as you give them more value
your value explodes um that's so so this is this is a renaissance this is the most exciting time to
be alive because because you can learn something that's very different than than what what most
people know and you can apply your genius in helping people and the more you help people
the better you do. It's just a reflection. Yeah. Hey, it's not just me, Jeff. It's all
because of you. You coming on the show, helping explain all these things is providing people so
many values. I'm just curious and I get to pick your brain for at least an hour. So I mean,
I'm always thankful to interact with people like yourself. So thank you for the kind words. But
you're talking a little bit about reimagining civilization, I guess, to put it in short.
Now, we've talked a little bit about businesses, but I'm curious how you look at it as the
individual. Is this more of the sovereign individual, so to speak, thesis kind of playing
out in the background with Bitcoin? Yeah, so it is. It is for sure.
here's a different way of saying this
you could look at a probability distribution of any single person
and so their past
and all of the things that happen to them and everything else
create the moment right now
your past, everything that you've ever done
and my past intersects right now
and this is the only moment that matters
and from here, what we're doing right now
the future probabilities can change completely this moment this moment right now what happens
for most people you can you can measure this you can see people doing the exact same thing over and
over and over and even though they have a choice infinite choices to do something different
they don't believe it and they fall into a trap and they keep on and so their choices
and they believe their choices and their choices are true for them.
And it reinforces.
And you can see this in every single person you know.
You can see it in yourself.
And you can see the potential opportunities that are so much bigger than what.
And every single person can access that, but they don't know they can access it
because they look at their past and all the reasons that they believe there.
And if you measured their potential probabilities, it would typically stay the same.
And then you see some people that have the same past and also they make a different choice.
They see something, they interact with somebody else that gives them a different idea.
Everything changes.
It's a zero to one moment.
And now they see infinite opportunities and they create those infinite opportunities for
other people and they touch a whole bunch of other people.
I'll use a simple example.
very simple example. BlackBerry Research in Motion, the phone, my past of that and using that,
I saw I would never use Apple. A couple of years before that, Steve Jobs has an idea of creating
something totally different that would act totally different. But my perception of reality
had a phone that might, and I believed my perception of reality until I put this in my
phone until I put the iPhone in my hands and I changed in an instant instant. So my belief
structure had this other path that would have looked the same forever. And somebody imposed a
different belief structure and created value for me that I changed immediately. It's a tiny little
example. So what creates an ability to create a different path of the future, right? That everybody
is operating over here and their belief structure and somebody creates a different belief structure
that bends reality and a different thing. That is actually what the free market values. That's what
is happening. And we don't think we change, but we change all the time.
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All right, enough from me.
Let's get back to the show.
Right.
And then now how do you, yourself,
from your bubble of your perceived reality,
challenge that status quo, what you will naturally do over and over and over again,
and fall into the trap that will reinforce back at you and say,
could this be something different? Should I explore this? And if it is, it changes all of
your probable future. So that same thing is what I'm describing here is going on for each one of us
and society um and our impact our changes individually are manifesting and changes
in other people individually right through that process
now this is yeah you always seem to blow my mind when you come on the pod jeff because it's just uh
it's incredible but um you know as we're getting into you know i guess this reimagining where
things are going and kind of taking that self-reflection of that and potentially more
people kind of you know as you've described it to me privately just everybody's a node right
just kind of working together to bring us to this new world in uh you know whether that looks more
as the sovereign individual and as we're seeing this technology and ai just increasing that uh
you know efficiency of everywhere um you know where do you see ai and bitcoin colliding to a
potential i guess like medium of exchange because i've heard a lot of people say that ai agents
they'll start transacting this is how we'll get more efficiency and it will essentially become the
the money of the internet.
Do you see that as a way forward as well,
where we're, you know,
not only are people kind of looking in the mirror
and acting as nodes,
but also like in conjunction with AI,
really becoming that ultimate force, I guess, so to speak.
Yeah, so I would say,
I think there's broad confusion on that,
or maybe I'm wrong on this,
but there's two different concepts here.
that people are trying to marry. They're saying, okay, AI agents will use Bitcoin because Bitcoin's
a better currency and then AI will be the driver of Bitcoin. I think that's just a construct from
thinking through financial markets today and how financial markets work. And while some of that
might be true, the bigger path is this. The AI agent is free. Prices fall to the marginal cost
of production in a free market. And the marginal cost of production of the AI agent is free.
A line of code creating other lines of code is zero. So it doesn't need in time Bitcoin.
What Bitcoin measures is the productivity because it can't be manipulated. Because Bitcoin can't be
manipulated in 21 million units. It measures that productivity of it going to free,
flowing to you. That's the difference.
Okay. So then we start to see the development of, I think last time I had you on as well,
we talked about how the current system is, I guess, in conjunction. And we've been talking
throughout this whole entire conversation on how this current system, the deflationary
system that Bitcoin is in with AI, how these worlds are essentially colliding.
Last time you kind of described Bitcoin as being priced in the current dollars, how just
early we are saying that it was in the current system at $43 million per coin, basically with
where we're going. Now we've seen so much more debt and the inflationary aspects of the fiat
system just kind of run rampant, it seems in this past like six, seven, eight months since the last
time we spoke. How have you seen the development of the overall industry just be within this,
I guess, first year in a quote unquote like pro crypto admin here from the Trump administration?
Yeah, I think there's so much confusion broadly. That's why how early when I remember that 43
million per Bitcoin was priced in the currency as of today, right? When we talked about it,
how much of that currency, that manipulation or the asset value of everything within that system
today. But it didn't capture the other side of that, that from that point, all prices would fall
forever. And that 43 million would be infinite, right? Infinite in purchasing power. So it's so
easy to get into what it is in pieces of paper that are being manipulated and keep on pricing
that. And it's really hard to stay in the mindset of the free market is the natural state of the
free market. I don't say deflationary currency. I say the natural state of the free market,
us trading together is deflation period. The more people operating in that world,
the faster deflation because we're all competing to provide more value to other people. And the
output of us competing to provide more value to other people has to be deflation because we only
use the things that provide us more value. So if you had a currency that cannot be cheated,
that just happens. It imposes what I just described. So all of these other things,
all of these other constructs that people are getting caught up in and measuring what I just described is kind of the thing that we spent so much time on um that that I understand that I have empathy for people kind of measuring from from that because it it how they
trying to, to merge these two ideas that are unmergable into a reality that makes sense for
them, but it's actually nonsense in the end. And so I tune myself out of all of that. I just
tune myself out of, I know if Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure, nothing else matters.
It's repricing the world and I'm living in the first global free market that ever existed.
So what do I do in the first global free market that ever existed? I try to find
companies and founders and and provide as much value possible as i can
and as a reflection of that other people win and i win
now you use uh some phrasing there that is kind of curious you say if bitcoin says
decentralized and secure do you see like a potential i mean of course when you know they're
they're losing power, there's going to be some sort of attempts, right, to try to backfill or,
you know, try to make sure that that Bitcoin doesn't stay like that. Of course, we, you know,
we've got the classic FUD of the 51% attack, all of these different things. But do you think that
there's any way possible that Bitcoin doesn't stay decentralized and secure? If you believe
it's an asset within the system, and most people believe it's an asset within the system,
it will be an asset within the system and it will get captured. It's you. We are the consensus
mechanism. If we're running nodes, if we're spending in Bitcoin, if we're building on top
of Bitcoin as a currency, then the consensus mechanism ensures, and what's being built on top,
the privacy and everything else, and the layers that they're building on top, ensures it stays
decentralized and secure. So why I say if, is so people can actually look in themselves in the mirror
and say, which one do I want?
Do I want the control system that's a surveillance state
where I get rich and then it's taken from me?
Or do I want a neutral monetary asset,
a protocol that brings abundance,
8 billion people?
Because the choice is stark, right?
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Enough from me.
Back to the show.
What would you do as a government?
you try to co-opt it and there would be tons of people happily jumping in to co-opt it with you
because they would be measuring it in price go up
so when i when when i say it's you it's me it's you it's a it's every single person and i know i
say this all the time is is we have agency in the world we want to create and we can't it's
And when we say, what will the government do?
What will this person do?
Will we operate on a system we know is unfair?
We're actually giving away our agency and we're putting somebody else in charge of us.
Yeah, and it seems like we're not taking that independence aspect or the, you know,
like we were kind of reverting back to the sovereign individual type of thesis
where we're relying on somebody else and it seems like blaming somebody else.
And it seems like that's what's kind of going on right now
in the current system that we're in is everybody's pointing it right, left, whoever,
blaming all of these people for their problems instead of looking in the mirror.
So it seems like there just needs that not only for, you know,
I mean, I think in the Bitcoin space, a lot of us have done that.
and to start to take that ownership.
But what do you think has to be the big psychological shift in order to get there?
Is it just not only educating from the podcast and other things like that,
or is there some sort of other shift that you think has to take place
in order for us to start to take more ownership?
So it's a cognitive dissonance in us, right?
That's really what it is.
it's um when our when our view of the we don't want to believe like so i'm going to use my own
personal i think i've used it on other podcasts before but it was really hard to believe so even
though i know all of this was happening i wrote a book on it how it would accelerate one of the
chapters was two of the chapters were on ai where ai would be today one of the chapters was us versus
them what would cause what why would we would divide inside that system and that would be a
natural conclusion of what would happen over and over and again. So it laid out exactly what would
happen. I wrote a book on this and I found myself facing the same cognitive dissonance
in understanding Bitcoin. For me, at first, it was a hedge against the system collapse,
but I couldn't see that all of my actions from within the system were ensuring the system collapse.
and in other words i was making i was still in the zero-sum game
believing it was somebody else's fault
speaking all over the world about bitcoin while still in the zero-sum game
and and that was really hard for me to face and because because it was easy it was would be way
easier to believe because what would a zero-sum game look like me winning would have to have an
a counterparty somewhere else in the world losing from my winning. And so I wanted to tell myself
that I was a successful entrepreneur or everything and what it looked like without looking at the
counterparty in Africa or South America or Central America or a dictatorship that was caused by me
winning. I didn't, it was too hard to face on my own reality, right? That I could be a contributor
to somebody else's pain. Um, it would be easier to believe, Oh, I have no agency over that system.
I'm going to just close my eyes to it and keep on operating here and tell myself a nice bedtime
story that I was helping the world because of my, uh, my actions, right?
Way easier to believe that it would match my view of myself.
Only going through that hard, not whole, a realizing if I was inside a zero sum game,
then not, and, and at the top of that zero sum game, there had to be somebody on the other side
and understanding what would an infinite game look like where the free market actually worked.
you could only gain more value by contributing more value to other people,
had me face the hard fact that I was part of the problem.
And I had to go through that challenge and the cognitive dissonance of that challenge
and face the fact that I had a choice to make.
I could move all of my time into the new system,
or I could stay and tell myself a lie.
but that's, that's what it's going to take for each one of us.
And the more people that move their self in the new system,
the new system and what I'm watching happen is my life is, is,
is changed so positively because of meeting people.
I wouldn't have met if I stayed that my,
with my time in the other system.
And what I see today is a totally different representation than I would have
never had a chance of seeing from the other viewpoint.
My reality was mirroring back at itself because I wasn't wanting to face the fact
that I was part of it.
And so now what I see, the beautiful thing, all of the beautiful entrepreneurs,
the people that are changing this, that are creating a future reality for everyone,
it is so powerful.
But I also realized that I wouldn't have seen it in the other world.
And so when I look at other people still trapped in the other world and I have empathy for them going through the same thing, their time telling themselves the same lie that I was telling myself, I can't do anything from this.
It's those other people.
Same exact lie.
I understand why they do it, right?
Because I see it in myself.
I saw it in myself and I had to go through that.
And why I'm totally just honest in sharing that is because until I saw it in myself, I didn't see it.
It was a learning that I personally had to go through to get to the other side, to change my version of reality, which then touches a whole bunch of other people and changes theirs.
That's beautiful.
I think, you know, so essentially this new world would essentially, you know, unlocking the money, you know, as we say in Bitcoin, fix the money, fix the world would essentially have everybody just attempting to provide more value for every single person or everybody that you touch, opposed to, you know, maybe the new world or the current world that we're in right now that essentially, you know, we got to take shortcuts, you know, maybe screw somebody over.
so you could maybe get one up on them,
just kind of like fiat gains that follow the money,
follow the incentives kind of aspect
would essentially just be wiped out in the Bitcoin,
in a hyper-Bitcoinized world?
Is that kind of what you're thinking?
It completely wipes out.
So I posted something on Nostra recently.
I think you could come to Bitcoin
from a higher consciousness energy
that you could see there's something there
that I need to understand and explore,
or you raise your consciousness over time in Bitcoin
the longer you're in it.
And that would be natural
because you're operating in a truthful system.
You're operating in an honest system.
And so as you see more honesty
and the more people around you
that are operating from that,
still people trying to cheat it,
still people trying to take shortcuts and such.
But as you move your time
to more of the people who are honest,
it just reflects back at you and you see it everywhere and you see the,
yes, there's a whole bunch of people still going through this.
There's a whole bunch of people trying to, to consolidate, cheat it,
shit coins, nonsense. And you just forget those people. You do you, right?
And you aggregate your life around people who are honest,
hardworking, trying to create value for others. And you, uh,
and your life gets better as a result.
Nothing stops this train, right?
It seems like.
Nothing stops this train.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, we've got, you know, a big exciting time, it seems like, ahead of us.
So what's something that you're really looking forward to as we're coming to the last quarter of this year and potentially, you know, next year as we're, you know, it seems like just Bitcoin, everybody's rapidly adopting and things, events all over the world are getting bigger and bigger.
More people are coming online.
So what's something that you're looking forward to here in the next few months to a year?
It's just more of this.
Like, I can't believe I get to do what I get to do with people I get to do it with.
I just literally can't believe I pinch myself every day that just by learning, by the curiosity to to understand something that was outside of my understanding and deep dive on onto this,
that now I can impact and help people at that type of level
as they go through their own process.
So, yeah, every day I wake up and I just go, wow,
like what a time to be alive.
Like what a crazy, wild, just crazy time as we transition to this
and the people I get to meet every day that are taking their own steps
through this.
It's just crazy.
yeah 100 jeff you're a legend where can people find out more about what the great work that
you're doing and everything that you got going on uh i do two two things jeffbooth.ca if you're
looking for don't follow me on any social media unless you've gone to jeffbooth.ca and make
making sure that that social media is an accurate reflection of me i will never ask for money
I will never ask for, or I'll never shill a shitcoin.
So if somebody is asking you for that, it's not me.
I'm not on Instagram.
I'm not on Facebook.
I'm not on any of these things.
But there's lots of versions of me trying to suck your money out that are on those.
And then if your company inside this space looking for capital, wanting to,
then it would be Jeff at EgoDeathCapital.capital.
All right, I'll put all that in the show notes.
Jeff's a legend of the space.
Thank you so much for always coming on
and sharing your wisdom, man.
My mind always gets blown
and I'm excited for the next time
we see each other in person.
Me too, Brandon.
Really look forward to it.