By the end of the year, 200,000. That's my target.
In the beginning, oh, I would recommend maybe 1% exposure, and it became 2%, and now it's 5%, and now it's 10%.
If, like I'm expecting, the printer is going to go on in September, oh boy, we're going to spill into 2026,
and maybe if something happens to Coinbase, well, it's going to impact 9 out of the 11 ETFs.
So that's a huge problem in one way.
The other way is...
What's up, guys?
before we get started, I've realized that over 50,000 of you guys keep coming back for every
single episode. And while I'm eternally grateful for you guys to keep coming back, I've realized
that 79% of you guys are not subscribed. So I have one small ask before we get started. If you
guys could hit that subscribe button and hit that like button to help send this interview and many
more to the stratosphere, it would be greatly appreciated. All right, enough from me. Let's
getting to the show. Bing bong. I am back with another edition of the State of Bitcoin podcast
where I've got the man, the myth, the legend, Mauricio or Mr. M Crypto, host of the best podcast
maybe in the game outside of this one, of course. But Mauricio, we have a freaking crazy time going
on. The price is pumping and corporate adoption is rapidly coming. So with all of this, how are
you feeling about this cycle and how high do you think we're going now well first of all thank you
so much for having me it was great meeting you in vegas i got my hug so good energy thank you so much
for inviting me on the show i'm super excited i'm pumping man we've gone over 120 so i'm actually
happy as i told you off camera we are retesting you know the lower level because it was going up
super fast so i don't mind a little bit of a test but yeah we go to the moon man this is crazy the
best part is yet to come. A hundred percent. Now you've been in the game for a little bit,
as have I, and I think like everybody tries to compare these cycles to different times,
right? So, you know, I think your worry was similar to a lot of others that have been in
it for a little bit where it's like, all right, we're starting to go up, but we're starting to
go up quickly. And it's like, all right, hold up. I want to still stack some of my stats.
Do you think that this is going to be one of those cycles that, you know, once we start going and
and going up obviously we're retesting a little bit one at 120 as we're recording here on the 15th
but you know this feels like a little bit different just because of how much money is coming in
do you think that this is one where you know once we start going and the fomo money starts to come in
it's it's going to be a wild cycle or do you think it's going to be you know maybe a little bit
similar to others past where you know we still get the volatility on the way up it's a fantastic
question here they say um history never repeats it rhymes so i feel like we are experiencing
somewhat a 2017 mixed with other cycles because of course players are different now so the game
has to be different i know that this time is different as a meme at this point i get it but
you have counter institutions players are different in the game so of course i'm not expecting the
same cycle but to be honest with you i'm expecting a more mellow cycles in either directions i don't
I think we're going to see a omega candle from 100K to a million dollars in one week.
But I think it's going to build up strong and steady as opposed to violent.
I mean, there is going to be volatility, of course.
But I think it's going to be more mellow, if you make sense.
Yeah.
Why do you think that it's going to be more mellow?
Well, because I think retail sells and buy from impulsive, right?
Like, for example, let's say whenever the price was lower, meaning many more people could quote unquote afford one Bitcoin, the game was different.
You were buying and selling and it was easier for you to enter and leave.
But now people that are buying, they're not selling when it doubles.
Like, Bukele is not selling at 200,000.
Seltar is not selling at 200,000.
So those players are going to buy for the long term, which means whoever is selling is probably someone who was entered maybe 10 years ago.
maybe someone who I've seen a bunch of whales moving old wallets, doing billions of dollars,
investing maybe a thousand dollars a few years back.
So it makes sense for them to offload some of those coins.
But for those players, institutions and countries coming like Texas is buying millions of dollars,
they're not going to sell when this thing is going to 200,000.
So I have the feeling there is going to be a more kind of mellow, yeah, in both directions.
So I'm not even expecting a 90% correction, by the way, in the bear market,
Because I believe there's going to be a time where some people are going to offload, but it's not going to be as brutal as the one we've seen, me and you we've seen in the past, like 90%, right?
It's going to be way more delicate in both directions, if it makes sense.
Yeah.
So if you think it's going to be delicate, you know, the word super cycle is always thrown around.
Do you think that this is going to be somewhat of that?
Or do you think it's going to be kind of, I guess, similar to what we've seen where,
you know, we get like 10 or 15 days where it's just absolutely exploding.
And then we turn around, we're like, oh, shit, how do we get here?
We're at 250, 300, 400, 500 K.
Yeah, that's a fantastic question.
I mean, I guess it depends on how we define super cycle, right?
So for me, a super cycle would be somewhat a continuation in next year.
let's say if we go to 2026 and the price keeps going up 20 15 20 30 percent well then we broke
the four-year cycles because technically the cycle should be over at the end of this year right
october november depending on when you start accounting but if we go into 2026 and we see a
20 30 appreciation and we have not corrected 40 50 60 down well technically we have broken the cycle
right but that doesn't mean we have to go to a million dollar i mean we will eventually of course
Like we will see you and me, we will see a million dollars in our lifetime for sure.
But the question is when and how long is it going to take?
And only depends on how much FOMO there is.
Apparently, this week is going to be crazy for crypto because there is a bunch of news that we are all waiting for.
First of all, the Feds are going to speak, CPI, CPI.
Also, we have the resignation of Jerome Powell, maybe, in the cards.
And apparently, someone said that on the 22nd of July, crypto is going to change.
Sorry, I'm going to say the bad word.
crypto is going to change forever because they have some announcement to do and banks are allowed
to hold all these kind of coins so i'm expecting some craziness so i think there's going to be a
wild moment coming in maybe a 30 40 and by the way when i said when i say mild i mean you know
for a traditional finance person is like a vomit sensation because i'm still planning 30 40 percent
right so those are numbers that in traditional finance you don't see or if you are a gold bug
I mean, 5% in a year. It's a huge move, right? So still violent, but not as violent as the one
that you and me experienced back in 2014 or 2017, for sure. Yeah. So with that, it seems like there's
going to be some of these more violent swings. And I personally think that we're going to start
to see it all the way through 26. Because if you look at some of these cycles, you see the all-time
high is always farther away from the halving. This time we actually got the all-time high pre-halving,
so it is a little bit different comparatively. So it's going to be a unique cycle. So obviously
everybody says, like you said, it's a meme at this point that this cycle is different,
but it already is strictly just because we hit the all-time high pre-halving.
Now with these big players coming in, you mentioned something interesting with like
sailors never selling and all of these corporations now that are coming online.
And, you know, what do you make of traditional finance starting to come in and, you know, essentially put Bitcoin on the balance sheet as like this new wave that we're seeing here in 2024?
Like how significant do you think that that is? And yeah, like, do you hold any weight on that?
Or did you think that this was just something that, you know, is par for the course that was going to happen eventually?
100%. I mean, some people are saying, oh, it's the Trump pump.
Of course, Donald Trump, which is a crypto president, is going to impact the market short term.
But I believe Bitcoin would have gone there eventually anyway.
Right.
We don't care about who wins the election in a long time frame, in a short time frame.
Yeah, of course, people are going to trade the news.
Right.
But in the long time frame, I don't think it's a problem.
And I think there is going to be so many companies entering the space because now there is no stigma.
If you say I own Bitcoin, it's not like in 2017 or 2013 where people are like, oh, this is bad money.
It's like bad players and corrupt individuals.
Now it's OK.
There is an ETF, which is the fastest in history.
You have a president who's done a bunch of NFT collection, a bunch of MIM coins.
So, you know, he opened the road over there.
You have a bunch of countries.
I mean, El Salvador, Bhutan, those things are on the news.
So whenever you say, I want to do something, I want to use my cash, instead of watching
destroying itself through inflation, I want to invest into some asset.
Well, Bitcoin now has to be considered.
And I don't even think we've seen the impact yet of all those things that we just named.
Like for now, we had, I don't know, like a teenager coming out, you know, and say, hey, I'm 16 years old.
I, you know, I'm volatile, but I'm cool.
I'm decentralized.
I'm divisible, transportable.
I'm kind of gold, but better.
But now institutions and countries are literally saying we have it on the balance sheet.
And it's getting bigger and bigger.
I also believe there is a lot of companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft, they might won't have it yet on their balance sheet, but they are going to acquire companies.
They are doing something with it because that's how they operate.
Think about Instagram.
Think about LinkedIn.
Think about Skype.
They let them go.
They let them test their own products.
And then at some point, because they have a lot of cash, they just bought them up.
So I'm expecting those big giants acquiring a lot of companies in the next, I don't know, five, 10 years to come.
And at some point, they'll have to expose their cash to this asset.
You know, it's becoming much, much, much harder to ignore Bitcoin at this point.
Because like many people have said, we've gone to 100,000, we're going to a million.
Like there is never seen, we've never seen in history of humankind an asset that's gone to 2 trillion, market cap, and then died.
Right?
So the gene is out.
Everyone is seeing it.
So it's up to you to, you know, if you missed $1, you missed $10, you missed $100, you missed $1,000.
You can keep missing it all the way up.
Or you can do something about it and buy some.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you mentioned the Fed a little bit earlier, right?
We have like the CPI coming out here tomorrow as we're recording this.
And then we have, you know, the potential of Jerome Powell, you know, resigning.
And basically, that means that the next guy coming in is 100% going to cut interest rates.
Now, a lot of Bitcoiners are used to hold a lot of weight, I would say, in the current macro situation.
But this time, I think, is very interesting because we have a lot of geopolitical conflicts going around globally.
and the general narrative from traditional finance is that the overall economy is doing all right.
But I think from Bitcoiners' perspective, they see inflation still very high.
They see a lot of issues.
And I think they've opened Pandora's box of seeing that, hey, traditional fiat systems done.
It's screwed.
But now, you know, it is interesting where these worlds are colliding.
So I'm curious how you view the overall macro situation and as it kind of pertains to Bitcoin.
Do you think that, you know, are you holding any weight on the potential decision of Jerome Powell to quote unquote step down or, you know, the cutting of interest rates here in the future as like something that you're holding weight where, you know, you're trying to load up as much Bitcoin as you can right now because once that happens, all bets are off.
100%.
I mean, that's always the case.
like stack stats always fed no fed cpli cpli it doesn't matter right that that's the rule stack
stats as much yes but of course there's going to be a short-term impact right like the market reacts
there is there is a lot of people they trade the news trade the events so we'll see a bunch of
swings coming in and coming out but everything is becoming cheaper with bitcoin right we've seen it
we experience it i've seen a meme the other day which was fun because it wasn't a meme but it was
treated as of was a meme and it was showing how much money you would have if instead of buying
every single iphone you would invest it in bitcoin nuts like we talk about millions of dollars just
for your phone that you change every year so everything is becoming cheaper compared to bitcoin
so of course no financial advice that's what i'm doing i'm stacking like crazy actually have next to
no fiat under my name anyway but side note i think there is going to be there's going to be a huge
moment when they're going to start printing money. China printed, I think it was yesterday. So I think
the US is going to turn on the printer. Trump wants money to be printed. He wants that to be cheap.
So I think we will see, we experience a lot of people with money saying, hey, they're about to
print a chunk of supply. So I have to save myself in assets. So what do I have? Which assets I can
I can get as fast as possible.
And there's not many, right?
So I think Bitcoin is going to,
if like I'm expecting,
the printer is going to go on in September.
Oh boy, I think we will see that
probably last run into this market
if the cycles are going to be respected
because it could be very much,
like you said,
we're going to spill into 2026
and maybe break out of those four-year cycles.
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trusted, proven. Yeah. And I think it's interesting kind of the way that this is all,
you know, I guess playing out, but you know, with this, like, how do you view just the overall
economy in general do you think that we're you know globally very yeah i guess strong or do you
think that you know we're kind of feeling the effects of the inflation from the money printing
that we saw back four or five years ago 100 i mean i think the economy is super weak like if you just
go to buy some groceries right like you you can you can see you can feel it for yourself how crazy
expensive everything became okay it depends where do you live i get it but overall london new york
like those big cities even Dubai for what it worth everything is becoming pretty expensive compared to a few years ago right And it takes time Like whenever they printed I think during the pandemic they printed 50 of the supply
50% of the entire supply of dollars was printed during the pandemic.
I think it was in six months.
So it takes time for that to affect our lives, right?
So I think now is that time where we can not just smell the fire, but actually feel the fire next to us.
So hence probably why Bitcoin has gone into a rampage.
I mean, gold has gone bananas, broke the all time high.
I think it was six months ago, whenever, because of these reasons, like people, rich people
have assets, right?
That's the old thing.
Like fiat money doesn't store value.
I mean, it does compare to other fiat.
If you compare the dollar to Turkish lira, the dollar is doing better, but still it's
down 99% since the inception of the dollar itself.
So they are not clearly made to store the value.
So if you are someone who has a bunch of money on the bank, I mean, we know the rules, right?
Not money, not in the bank, not yours, but whatever.
You'll have to purchase assets.
And I think Bitcoin is establishing itself really fast into the list of stuff you can purchase to protect yourself.
Because, like I said, you don't have many options, man.
I mean, where do you save yourself into?
Okay, you have gold, you have real estate.
I mean, gold is not in your hands.
Okay, you have to trust a third party.
Real estate is not easy to buy.
You have to go through lawyers and really risky, right?
Depending on the area.
So Bikoni Superliquid is in your hand.
You own it.
I mean, it just wins over every ad.
If you think about it, it's just a no-brainer.
So the more people are going to understand and study and read and trust their financial advisor,
which are going to start recommending it,
I think we will actually see some serious price appreciation coming in.
Yeah, and I agree with you on that.
And it's interesting because I think River just put out a recent study that more Americans own Bitcoin and crypto than gold right now.
And, you know, you're seeing a lot of traditional financial people kind of say, you know, that they're looking to get into more of gold as an inflation hedge opposed to getting into something like a gold or something else.
So do you think, you know, that is that something that you're noticing as well, that you're seeing like more people kind of get, I guess, maybe crypto curious is the phrase here where they're starting to dip their toes in a little bit.
Because, you know, I even had my dad buy Bitcoin a few years ago and, you know, he was a part of one of these exchange blow ups, unfortunately.
But, you know, they didn't have too much in there, thank God.
But now he came to me and he was like asking me when I was in Austin this past weekend, hey, I've got a little bit of Bitcoin.
And then now he's he's dipping into the other cryptos, too.
And I'm trying to tell him, hey, dude, just do just Bitcoin only.
But it's interesting that now he's starting to get back into it.
Is that something that you're noticing as well?
100%. And by the way, I do believe that I actually tweeted this early this morning before going to the gym.
Anyone who's purchasing anything rather than Bitcoin is a Bitcoin.
they don't know just yet. They will become Bitcoin later on because that's the journey
most people have to go through because greed kicks in, oh Bitcoin is not enough. 50% a year is not
enough. Compounding 50% a year is not enough. Okay, good. Go and gamble on the casino. You'll be back
100%. But yeah, sure. I mean, think about a 18 years old today or 20 years old today. That makes
me feel super old, but whatever with my 50 years of age. But think about this. Everything is digital,
right there is no concept of owning gold like gold is such an ancient thing like if you are
peter shift like okay whatever maybe but the new generation coming up i was reading an article i
think it was on bitcoin magazine that was saying uh back in back when i was 18 or 20 which was 30
years ago having a ferrari was a flex having a lamborghini was a flex now you just show off maybe
some bitcoin or some digital assets it is changing you have your phone always with you everything is
digital around you it makes sense that you want to have something into a different format as
supposed to a gold of brick or brick of gold sorry in your living room that you show to your friends
i mean you hang it to your neck i mean yeah okay jewelry maybe watches that kind of stuff but
it can be stolen you know you can lose it so it doesn't make sense for you to flex with these
things so i'm expecting actually the new generation to come up and play with crypto hence entering
they don't know yet but they will discover bitcoin later on because that's what majority of the
people they have next to no knowledge on crypto they just go into whatever coin maybe a meme coin
maybe some coin like xrp or whatever no comments over there and then they'll figure it out in a
cycle or two that if they want to actually keep their money bitcoin is the answer so yes i'm
expecting also many more to come so the more the new generation are coming out the more i think
this is gonna expand super fast as supposed to gold is gonna go up always right because you will
have i don't think it's gonna stop at 22 trillion gold is gonna continue to go but bitcoin is gonna
catch up and the old crypto sector subsequently of course is gonna keep growing but that's that's
for sure yeah and it's interesting because bitcoin has you know you're mentioning gold
obviously gold has the largest market cap of any asset uh but you know bitcoin has passed amazon
gone back a little bit you know so it's the fifth or sixth uh largest asset in and it's created 16
years ago right uh by market cap right now obviously gold's been around for you know hundreds
and hundreds of years. Do you think that we get to passing the gold market cap here fairly quickly?
Because it seems like, although you're saying gold is, I guess, really starting to see an increase,
I think that we're starting to see something unique that I think we're going to see in Bitcoin here
later on, is that we're seeing a lot of central banks load up on gold right now, the physical
asset. But we're also seeing the ETFs lose a lot of that because I think people are kind of
flocking towards the initial, hey, I want the heart or I want gold. I want some sort of exposure.
And then now they're flocking more towards the physical asset. Do you think that that's what
we're going to kind of see here down the line is like, hey, we have a lot of people potentially
going for these ETFs. Everybody's joking about the meme of the potential paper Bitcoin that
that could have some serious implications. But I think we'll get there. Everybody will maybe want
to, hey, you know what? I'll dip my toe and get a little bit of the ETFs. And then they'll realize,
hey, you know what? This ETF is trash. I want the actual physical thing of Bitcoin. Do you see that
as kind of a transition or do you just always, are you kind of along the lines thinking, hey,
these ETFs are bad. They're not really teaching the true ways of Bitcoin. And maybe people won't
really get to that point of actually holding in self-custody?
That's a good question. I mean, first of all, the largest is the organization, the slower is
changes in general, right? If you are the Chinese government who owns trillions of dollars in gold,
I mean, in order for them to pivot into Bitcoin and sell all of it is going to take a long time,
whether if you are a small, like if you are Bhutan, for example, you can owe El Salvador,
you can be more agile, more fast. So the largest, the slowest. But also I'm thinking, now that we're
discussing it, ETFs are actually, I'm not against, I think they're a great thing, right? Because they
are going to allow certain individuals to own, I mean, sorry, own Bitcoin, they don't actually own
it. They have an IOU in dollars, which is different, but it's a way for them to enter into the
space right and ever since the etf was approved last year in january we've seen a huge price
appreciation so we can't have the price pump without having the etf if you make sense it comes
with it it's part of with it so i welcome it i think it's going to propagate it's going to help
sending the message out and like you said it's going to convert a portion of those investors into
into self-custody, which is the absolute way.
If you ask me, self-custody all the way.
Not your keys, not your supermodel, like we say.
So you have to take control of your finances, self-sovereignty.
But I also understand it's not for everybody.
I have many friends in my network.
They don't want to even hear about it.
They just want to trust someone else.
And this is why banks were in venture in the first place, right?
Because people do not want to have responsibilities.
They want to blame something or someone.
So it becomes much easier to say, I want to be part of this network, but I don't want the responsibility in holding my own keys.
Because when we say, oh, it's only a bunch of words in your head.
Well, it's not.
It's a little bit more complicated than that, right?
And you know, because you've been in this space long enough.
But you have to build a plan, think about redundancy, and what happens if I pass?
Is my wife okay?
My kids?
It's a little bit more complicated.
So you have to go into a journey.
And if you would have told me when I started in 2013, oh, go in self-custody, I will probably freak out.
So it's easier for someone who's done it for a long time to say, oh, it's easy.
But for someone who's new, you know, we have to remember everyone has his own time to digest these technologies.
So I'm actually very happy ATF have been approved in general and the numbers are there to see.
So there is definitely interest.
And for some organizations like pension funds, for example, they are actually, it's a good thing.
Now, the bad thing is that the Bitcoin is not in the investor hands.
There is a third party.
Actually, it's an interesting, when you look into it,
it's an interesting setup because think about strategy or Michael Saylor.
They don't even have Bitcoin.
Coinbase has their Bitcoins.
So that's another level on another level.
So BlackRock doesn't custody the ETFs themselves.
They have a custodian.
So it becomes like a paper castle.
So if something happens to Coinbase, well, it's going to impact 9 out of the 11 ETFs.
So that's a huge problem in one way.
The other way is the BlackRock, even though they don't buy Bitcoin,
but they do buy, but the majority comes from retail.
I think 60% is still retail buys.
BlackRock doesn't have to give them back their Bitcoin when they sell.
They can just give them fiat, which means they can keep the asset
and they give away the horrible stuff.
They could even loan borrow against their stack and pay off in fiat.
So that could be kind of problematic.
But I think it's part of the adoption process.
Excuse me, part of the adoption process.
You can't have price appreciation if only a bunch of people like you and me have Trezor or whatever the device is in your drawers and you keep your own keys in your own hands.
you have to have certain players involved right to propagate this and those players they certainly
are not going to store their keys into a cold storage device like you and me do so it's part
of the game i think if it makes sense this bull run i'm looking for ways to stack bitcoin in my
sleep and mining has always caught my eye i've partnered with the guys over at simple mining to
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All right, enough from me. Let's get back to the show.
Yeah, no, 100%. I definitely think so.
But what worries you more? Is it the potential of Coinbase, you know, kind of going belly up?
Or is it more of BlackRock?
because, I mean, BlackRock historically, right, has always been, I think, you know, pulling the
strings in the background. You know, I mean, they're the largest asset manager in the world.
And but then now we have Coinbase who potentially Brian Armstrong could be like the most powerful guy
in crypto at this point, because he's been in with Trump. I know we've got David Bailey of
Nakamoto, who's, you know, been outstanding over at Bitcoin Magazine as well, like bringing in and
helping bring along the vice president this year in Vegas where we saw each other and then
Donald Trump when he was running last year. So I mean, how do you feel about either potentially
Brian Armstrong or Larry Fink or both of them? Do you think that they're both a net positive or
a net negative for Bitcoin here? Well, I mean, I think at this point it's too big to fail, right?
If they wanted to break it per se, they would have broke it before. Now there is a huge market.
i mean wall street hasn't even entered the party yet so i don't think there's any reason to worry
per se and if you are indeed worried the best defense is self-custody i always say right so
if you are someone who's worried about those things that we just listed the etfs and by the
way blackrock is not an angel they are evil it's an evil corporation right so let's not forget who
they are but then just go self-custody right just take action study you don't have to do it today
you can do it you can plan it and say okay for the next few months i am you know planning to
get custody of my own coins perfect that's the best way to defend yourself then after all we
can't forbid people to use this network like jeff wood says bitcoin is my enemy's money i can't say
you can't use it but i can otherwise it's not decentralized it's not open it's not permissionless
like we have to accept the fact that this is an open network and anyone can participate right so
who am i to forbid you to join oh no blackrock is evil they can't buy well then it's fiat money we
already have it right so we have to let go of the control part and let the network do its thing and
if blackrock is gonna break bitcoin which is not gonna happen i don't think well then bitcoin wasn't
meant to be Bitcoin in the first place. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. So I mean, I agree
with you. I think that, you know, BlackRock getting in is, it's kind of interesting, though,
because it's almost like he's, you know, Uncle Larry here has given his blessing, so to speak,
to Bitcoin. But, you know, I say that all tongue in cheek, because, you know, I agree with you,
BlackRock is evil. But, you know, this gives it somewhat validity towards the traditional
financial world. And I still think that TradFi isn't here yet. We're talking about the cycle
with corporations and maybe governments potentially dipping their toe in, which I want to get into
that with you a little bit later. But do you think that, I mean, because you said the retail,
right, is still 60, 70% of that ETF buying. So do you think TradFi is even really here yet
from your experience, you're circled? Are you realizing, hey, more of these
financial advisors maybe are starting to say hey you know what you should buy Bitcoin you should kind of get into it all that kind of stuff do you think that that the way or no they haven even started i mean we seen probably like the beginning of the beginning of the beginning like a small amount
of people kind of started to recommend what's fun is to watch blackrock saying in the beginning oh
well we recommend maybe one percent exposure and it became two percent and now it's five percent and
And now it's 10%.
It's going up.
So I think in the next, and by the way, Trump is going to help him.
I don't like politics.
I don't like, I don't care about who wins the election.
But of course, there's going to be an impact in the short term, right?
Like if there is a crypto president and there is a head of the SEC, which is bullish on self-custody, I mean, the market is going to react to this, right?
I mean, we can't hide this.
So I think we haven't even seen that yet.
It's just Trump.
Trump just barely won the election only a few months ago.
So all those waves, they have to yet come, right?
So we'll see a huge amount of banks are going to go in, offer products.
It's going to be easier for everyone.
Like in 2013, 2014, I was living in the UK.
You know how many times my bank blocked my account because I was purchasing Bitcoin?
Like we won't see those blocks anymore.
We will see actually banks emailing and say, hey, do you want to buy Bitcoin?
We can help because we can make a commission.
so all those traditional finance players
we haven't even seen them yet
and when they are going to come in
stable coins are going to flood the market
of course because it's faster, it's cheaper
it's going to unbank so many people
like think about people
they live in places where banks
they don't even exist, they'll have an app
they download the app, boom, USDT
I think
this is probably one of the reasons why I'm thinking
that I'm never bullish enough
even though I'm trying to be conservative
but there's going to be a wave of traditional finance is going to lift the entire sector.
And we haven't even seen it yet. So no, I don't think we've seen, maybe we've seen 2% of it,
maybe not even. So it's early. It's really early. Yeah, let's get into that. I didn't know that
you've gotten your bank account like blocked and everything like that from buying Bitcoin. So
what was that experience like? I mean, you don't have to tell us how much Bitcoin, but
were you buying like massive amounts? Was it something that, or was it small, like you were
buying, you know, maybe like 0.01 Bitcoin at that time. And then it's like, hey, you know what,
that was when Bitcoin was like, you know, $4,000 or whatever it was. So it was only like, you know,
a couple hundred dollars here or there. But then they're blocking you from doing all that. Or was
it, you know, I mean, I guess you don't have to get into the exact amount here of anything like
that. But in your opinion, was it justified that they were blocking because you were seeing big
money moves because, you know, right now, for example, right? Like if I were to wire you a
massive amount of cash for, for no reason, my bank would question you, right? Because like you're
saying, Hey, you know what? There's, there's not a lot of money, you know, or there's the banks
don't necessarily have your money. But you know, with that, if you're making purchases or other
things like that, it is, they're always kind of questioning, right? I mean, I had this conversation
with Gary Cardone where he was like, Hey, if you go into your bank right now and you say, Hey, I
want $100,000 in cash, you're going to be hard pressed to find a bank that actually has that.
Now, at that time when you were buying this Bitcoin, I'm not trying to have you dox yourself
how much you were buying, but was it essentially something that would have been, I guess, normal
if you were doing it for something else? Or do you really think that it was just because of Bitcoin
that they were like, hey, we're putting the handcuffs on you and we're not letting you go here?
They were 100% because it was Bitcoin, because we are talking about, I mean, Bitcoin was trading around $200, $250.
So a purchase of maybe $5,000, $10,000 was giving you quite a bit of Bitcoin back in the days, right?
But they didn't care about how much Bitcoin would you get in.
They didn't like the fact that you were purchasing it.
So, and by the way, $100,000, dude, try to get $1,000 in cash.
Like I got married in Greece.
I was living in the UK.
We went to Santorini to get married.
and I went to the bank and I wanted to withdraw $10,000, right?
Pounds, sorry, which is probably a little bit over 10,
maybe $12,000 in dollars.
The guy said, dude, first of all, this cannot be done.
Like this is way too much more.
I can give you 500.
I was like, what do you mean 500?
I need to pay the florist.
I want local money to just pay, you know, the cake guy and the venue.
No, so 100K, dude, you won't even get 5,000 out of the bank
without questioning.
You can even buy, like I always had motorcycles in my life.
Sometimes you buy a decent bike.
Maybe you need, I don't know, 10, 15, 20K.
There's no way you can pay cash.
In Italy now is illegal.
Any purchase over a thousand euro is illegal.
Like you have to use your card.
So the bank is closing down on the amount of money,
sorry, amount of fiat cash you can use.
So back in the days, it wasn't even that much.
I'm talking about maybe a couple of thousand here,
3,000 there.
it wasn't like 100k, 50,000. It was like
decent amount, like a couple of thousand here, a couple of thousand there.
But it doesn't matter. They didn't like the fact, lots of warnings.
You're dealing with these so-and-so exchanges and it's forbidden
and you can't. So they locked me out. They closed my account. Barclay, which is one of the
banks, they don't let you, that you can't. It's forbidden. I don't know if
they changed their rules, but back in 2017, you were not allowed.
that you don't even have the option.
You can't buy crypto.
That's it.
And Bitcoin, of course,
because for me they are separate.
But it's really bad.
So now they are kind of,
with Mika and a bunch of regulations
that are coming out,
they're saying, okay,
maybe there is a lot of fintech options.
You have banks.
You don't even have to go to a desk.
You can download an app, right,
and deal with it.
Some of them, they do sell Bitcoin and crypto.
But I don't think it was the amount
that was bothering them.
It was the fact that I was dealing with
the sector per se.
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Yeah. And like the whole banking industry is still like, I mean, it's interesting because we had,
you know, Trump's come out and basically say, hey, the banking industry has been
just running rampant and, you know, being controlling and doing all these things
for years. And, you know, to hear like a sitting president's son come on stage and say these things
was pretty interesting just to kind of see it.
And I mean, I was over in Europe for the past month
and we had a kid come
when we were filming a little vlog in Spain
and he has one of the Discover student credit cards.
And he didn't tell Discover,
hey, we're going to Spain before.
And then he told them like while he was there,
hey, this is actually me.
But his card was shut down literally the entire time.
Like he could, if he didn't have us,
he would have been screwed
because he couldn't have gotten any access to his money.
And it just kind of is another example here of like,
your money in your bank really isn't your money.
And the interesting thing is kind of what you're saying,
like, hey, if I would have bought Bitcoin instead of an iPhone,
you could probably find some place in some way.
I mean, I found this giant Bitcoin spray-painted garage
when I was in Barcelona.
And you could probably find some place to have somebody
accept some goods and services for Bitcoin. But I'm curious where you think. I mean, you're in
Dubai, right? So the crypto tax laws are a little bit more friendly there as far as transaction
stuff. Are you seeing adoption in that way kind of come around this cycle where people are
transacting for goods? Or are you kind of on the more Mark Moss approach where you think this is
kind of like a 50-year, you know, development of this where, you know, we're kind of in the second
10 years where, you know, the first 10, it's retail, second 10, it's institutions, third 10,
it's governments, then the fourth and fifth 10-year cycles or 10-year periods are more of the adoption
kind of transaction cycles. Where do you think we are kind of as far as like the peer-to-peer exchange
goes? I think it's going to take a little bit longer, but you can be creative. For example,
I orange peel my dentist.
So, you know, you can talk to them and say,
hey, you know what?
I can send you DRAM,
which is the local currency here on the bank,
or I can help you setting up a wallet
and I can send you Bitcoin.
So, you know, it still requires a lot of work,
but I can tell you since I've been involved,
so it's been, what, 13 years,
things have changed massively, like massively.
So there has been a progress,
but we are not at the point
where we're going to be able to send each other
bitcoin over groceries and coffees and i think we are far away from that i don't think bitcoin is
also i would i wouldn't i would argue also it's not the best system it takes up to seven minutes
for a transaction to be settled so i wouldn't use a store of value there i mean the cost of
the transaction could overcome the cost of the product that you're buying so i think we are far
away from that day where you can go and acquire things but there are stuff like lightning network
is super powerful. There is technology coming in. I think Tether is building on Bitcoin, a stablecoin.
So there is a lot happening, but I think we need another maybe, I don't know, 10, 20 years before
this is going to go to the next level per se. But hence why we have an opportunity to front run
basically everybody. And people look at the price and go, ah, 100,000, man, it's too late.
per man is early super early but the perception is since one bitcoin is over a hundred thousand
most think you know i missed the train and i get it every single day when i i talk to people and
they're like no man it's too late i i passed it i passed the opportunity right but again you know
we will be here me and you when bitcoin is going to be over a million dollars saying well that's
It's at the next right there.
Just saying.
Yeah, I mean, so what's your argument when you say that to people?
Because what I'm starting to use is like, hey, there's 59 million millionaires globally right now, right?
So that's super uncommon to be a millionaire.
But just to own a million sats, 0.01 Bitcoin, there's like 13 million wallets that have that much.
Obviously, it's public, right?
So you can see all those things.
So it's, you know, I, before I was using the argument when Bitcoin was like at under a hundred
thousand. So it was like, Hey, for less than a thousand dollars, you can be in a group smaller
than millionaires, but now it's, it's getting a little bit harder, right? It's like 1200 bucks
now, maybe, but still like still pretty obtainable for the average person, maybe in the West.
So, you know, that's the kind of way that the framing that I'm trying to use, like, what,
What are you trying to use to tell people when they say that, hey, I'm too late?
You know what?
To be completely honest, I don't even try.
I've been, I'm exhausted, man.
I mean, I've been called names, ridiculous.
I mean, it's been a long 13 years.
And the same people, they call me an idiot or a scammer because I was, you know, I was enthusiastic.
Whenever you discover something in the beginning and you start studying it, you know, and you see how beautiful it is, you want to share it with your friends, right?
because you are passionate about it, not just Bitcoin, anything else.
Like I was talking to you about the gym earlier.
I'm loving it, so I'm enthusiastic about it.
Same was for Bitcoin.
Like when I understood what it was, I wanted to,
I don't want to say help because it sounds crazy,
but I wanted to share my experience with as many people as possible.
And oh boy, that was a really bad idea.
So now I'm like, when people are coming to me and saying,
you know what, whatever.
Like I don't even, I'm done trying to convince people.
I don't care. I know it sounds horrible, but I've gone over it.
Whether on the other hand, if someone is interested or genuinely interested
and they ask me questions, yeah, of course we can go down to a path.
But usually my go-to will be, think about the market cap of the asset itself.
It's $2 trillion, a little bit over $2 trillion. It's nothing, right?
So the growth of the market cap per se has so much space to go into.
so that's I think about gold like you mentioned 22 trillion more or less so that's a 10x away from
gold so that's the argument I usually take out right saying well you think about it from a
quote-unquote wrong angle look at the market cap as opposed to the price because there is a huge
amount of growth and think about who owns this asset right now you have very different type of
players and individuals involved, which means it's going to allow this thing to be distributed.
Right? Like one thing is if I say I own Bitcoin and nobody knows who I am, who cares? But if a
counter comes up, if Trump pushes it, you know, if Michael Saylor shows up every day, how long do
you think it's going to take for other companies to look at Saylor and go, damn, this guy is scooping
up like there is no tomorrow. He's now basically getting credits to borrow more, to buy more Bitcoin.
i mean at some point you are gonna have to say okay wait uh maybe we should think about maybe
we should take two percent or one percent and that's it because then that's all we need man
we don't need everyone to go like me all in we just need people to consider one percent five
then we're going to experience the so-called supply shop because now whenever people are
buying stuff on exchanges they still have reserve otcs are still healthy but it's going down so we
We haven't even seen the supply shock yet.
So at some point, we're going to have to face the fact
that there is not enough Bitcoin for the demand.
Like, Sailor alone is scooping up now weekly, apparently,
and he's not buying one.
So yes, there is someone who's selling.
But I think I was reading on a tweet,
someone tweeted the other day,
for the past three months, every week,
the amount of buy was 3.8 higher
than the amount of actually Bitcoin available on the market.
So at some point, those reserves are going to finish.
This is where probably we're going to experience the Omega candle, right?
Because then that's how price goes up.
When, you know, if I want to buy it and nobody wants to sell it,
well, the price is going up because, you know, otherwise there's no point.
So I think we are about to experience, maybe we are a few months away from that,
but at some point there is also that to put on the cake.
That would be the cherry on the cake probably, the supply shock.
Yeah. Do you think we're going to have that supply shock?
Because I been screaming it for the rooftops here because I mean exactly what you saying right We getting sailor alone I looked at it the other day and he literally bought Bitcoin every single Monday except for two this entire year And
we're already halfway through, right? We're recording this July 15. So he's literally
announcing buys every single week for the entirety of this year. And like you said, right? I mean,
it's just one company doing that, but there's multiple companies announcing monthly and all
of these different things. And then on top of it, we have the ETFs and the amount of Bitcoin on OTC
desks is going down significantly. I think that there's like, you know, maybe like 250K or something
like that just still left on OTC desks. And then on top of it, there's just like 2 million Bitcoin
left on exchanges at this point. So I think, you know, we're going to start to see that supply
shock because those reserves are just draining out because, you know, the miners are going to be one
seller, but they only have so much Bitcoin that they're mining every single week. So
do you think we're going to see a supply shock this cycle if this catches up?
100%. I mean, that's how we go into the banana zone, like Raul Powell calls it, right? Because
I think it's the supply shock that comes in and it takes from the halving a few months. It's not
immediate, right? The effect of the halving from our perspective, we don't even feel it on the day
of the halving. We feel it a few months after, right? Because of course now on top of all of
these, the number of Bitcoin is like chopped in half. So it's even more scarcer. And I don't know
if you've seen that video, which is kind of a meme, I guess, which is this guy at the festival,
he's dancing alone and people are laughing at the guy. And then another guy goes in and again,
in the end, everyone is dancing, right? I think that's what's happening with Bitcoin. So Sailor
is there dancing and having a good time. And there is all these companies like Nakamoto,
Pompliano came out, Jack Mulder and said, Hey, you know what? We're going to also do that. And I
I think Lin Alden raised $100 million with Jeff Booth,
if I'm not mistaken, for another company.
So there's going to be many more players coming in, right?
Saying, hey, wait a second.
Let's, you know, this is interesting.
We can actually make money here, right?
Because Bitcoin is becoming more adopted per se.
So we will see that coming in into a point where, like you said,
the market doesn't even have the supply.
So this is going to become interesting.
I mean, we have to keep in mind that there's going to be always someone selling.
Yes.
But the question is how many people are going to buy?
And that's where I believe we will see the banana zone, right?
Because imagine you're someone who bought at $1.
I mean, you're not going to hold forever.
Like, you're going to sell.
Because I have Sina once a month with Plan C.
We do a check on the data.
And Sina said something super interesting.
one he said he said once whoever is not selling because because they don't have enough and i agree
like if you had a huge pot of bitcoin like 10 000 50 000 100 000 you would sell every now and then
right without even thinking about it now who's not selling who's not have enough so i think those
people they bought back in the days they are going to be offloading a bunch every now and then but
the demand, the amount of people wanting to purchase them is going to surpass that.
Now, having said that, though, there is also something to consider, which is the longer
Bitcoin is going to run, the higher the price is going to be, which means, you know, it's
going to become, quote, less affordable.
Like now a seller is pulling out those crazy buy, but those number of Bitcoin is going to
diminish, right?
Like he buys 3,000, 4,000, but in 10 years, he will buy maybe 20 with the same amount
of money, right?
so there's also that to consider hence why i think the supply shock is going to come once every cycle
if if the cycles are going to be still in play because maybe they will be extended they will get
cancelled whatever it is so the supply shop will be only a moment in time maybe a couple of months
maybe 30 days where there's a huge amount of demand and there is not enough coins on the market
but then after it's gonna level again ready for the next cycle if you make sense why would you
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All right. Enough from me. Back to the show.
And that's where we see the Omega candle, I think, man.
That's where I think all bets are off.
But Mauricio, who the hell is selling?
Because I don't understand who's selling Bitcoin at this point.
Do you believe the narrative that it's the whales that have gotten in all of this time
and they maybe had the 100K as the mental barrier, so to speak, and that's who's selling?
Or do you think it's a lot of these new players coming in?
I mean, we saw massive amounts of shorts just get liquidated as well.
Do you think it's traditional finance trying to play some games?
Because I feel like at this point, you know, we should be seeing more price appreciation.
And maybe that's, you know, maybe by the time this is edited, it comes out in a couple days.
We're going to see it blow off the top, and I'm going to be looking really stupid here.
But do you think that, you know, we're going to start to see some of that here really quickly?
Because, I mean, granted, you know, we have gone from 110 to 120.
We've seen maybe 100 to 120, so maybe a 20% increase here recently.
but everybody's always waiting for those big giant jumps.
I know we were talking about that earlier.
Do you think that we're still,
you know,
kind of just getting started then here?
100%.
I mean,
you have to consider,
like you said so well,
so a hundred thousand was a huge psychological barrier,
right?
Then the next one is one 20 because everyone will say,
Oh,
one 20 is going to be the top and 20% above a hundred thousand.
Okay.
We kind of briefly passed that.
And now we are glad I'm glad we are retesting it because it's,
it's healthy.
I think 150 is going to be the next one.
And then probably 200,000.
But bear in mind that people are going to take profit before those targets, right?
So if people are expecting 200,000, they're going to sell at maybe 180, 190.
So I think it's healthy to see 100, a bit of resistance, 120, a bit of friction, 150, and potentially another push.
Now, how high we go, it's just, I wish I had an answer.
But we will definitely see, I mean, we haven't even seen the fun part of the market yet.
Because then remember, at some point, people are going to go gambler mode and they're going to take their profits into Bitcoin.
They're going to gamble into Ethereum, whatever those are coins.
So we also, I believe we will see that because now Bitcoin season now, but we will have, I believe, a crypto season where whoever has made 10x maybe or 5x with Bitcoin,
they're going to take a portion and gamble it with whatever the altcoin they're going to come up so
i don't think we've seen the top yet this is just the beginning what is interesting is summer usually
it's kind of boring people go on holiday and just they don't trade and but now we're seeing a spicy
july so i don't know maybe we could power through a little bit more maybe go boring through august
and then in september oh boy i'm expecting a powerful september october november potentially
even December and then if history repeats January we're gonna enter the 12 months of darkness
maybe but maybe not like I'm open to the idea that there is a possibility here which is you know the
cycles maybe will be impacted because like we have been discussing different players different game
right so I don't discount it entirely but for now the data is supporting the cycles still has been
respected and i'm expecting a decent pump coming in so 120 i don't think is much compared to what
i'm expecting coming in the next few months yeah i mean i agree with you i think uh you know i i
definitely think that we can see you know things all bets are off here pretty soon and and it's
generally like around q3 q4 so i mean you know you're nailing it on the head here i i'm surprised
that we're seeing this here in july as well like normally you know i mean my birthday is here in
like a in a week or so and i i usually feel like around this time i'm everybody's chilling you know
traditional finance they got their their feet up on the beach they're lounging with their pina
coladas well not so fast now but you know we still haven't even talked about the countries
our governments potentially coming in you know we mentioned trump a little bit early on
obviously we have the strategic reserve but they haven't bought bitcoin just yet they just kind of
moved all over the seized bitcoin do you think that we're going to see governments start to get
in here or do you think that governments are are already buying like what what's kind of your
general sense with that i think i have a different an interesting angle i think states like look at
texas like 10 million boom i think we will see that i don't think i don't think trump is gonna
buy 1 million bitcoin in five years i i don't think it's gonna happen maybe i'm wrong i don't
know i guess time will tell but i think we'll see something unexpected like a bunch of states coming
in we'll see clearly other countries saying whoa we'll see probably the so so-called famous china
unban which is going around forever but i think at this point you think about it and you say okay
well what's happening around me okay trump is bullish on this he's leading the largest economy
in the world so maybe it's worth thinking about a strategy right like you don't have to be bhutan
and go all in or el salvador but maybe taking a portion and say let's just take this and see how
it plays i think it's gonna be it's gonna be in many people minds to say the least so i think we
will see also that but again like i said in the beginning the largest is the entity the slowest
is the entity itself like if you have a small company with two or three employees you can pivot
faster you can invest you can do but if the company has a million employees it takes longer
so imagine a country is a lot of bureaucracy around and it's going to take a bit for them to
go in and and say let's buy this but i think eventually they will have to bend the knees 100
percent like bitcoin is becoming more and more and more visible and noticeable right so people have
They have two choices.
They either complain they missed it or they do something about it.
You know, some people are going to complain forever.
I have many friends I can name until tomorrow morning.
They are going to message me every single time we do a 10X.
I missed it.
They missed the $100.
They missed the $1,000.
They missed the $10,000.
The, you know, $100,000, the $1,000, $10,000.
But also you have another type which goes, wait, I missed one.
I missed 10.
I missed 100.
I'm not going to miss 1,000, right?
So it's up to you to decide who you want to be.
Yeah.
And I think that, you know, this cycle is going to, I guess, really bring in a lot of people, in my opinion.
I think like, you know, obviously with what happened last in the past four years, that brought in a bunch of people.
But I think that, you know, this cycle with now the Trump traditional finance and everything, it's given Bitcoin, I guess, a little bit more validity, so to speak.
Now, I think that this cycle, like everybody's saying, the meme, it's going to be different.
But I think, you know, we're not even starting to buckle up yet.
So I'm really excited for what's to come.
But, you know, I do think that we've gotten a lot of, and I think like, you know, you might know something here with being in Dubai.
And, you know, obviously we got Bitcoin Mina and everything like that.
David Bailey's been hinting at it.
The Middle East potentially buying Bitcoin and, you know, Abu Dhabi potentially putting it on the balance sheet in Dubai and doing all these things.
Like with the amount of like the community that you have there, do you think that that's a possibility?
100%. I mean, there's been already a buy from the UAE and I think they will continue.
Of course, they want to build on digital DRAM, which is the local currency.
So I think they will 100% start.
Now, how aggressive? That's something I don't know.
Like how long is it going to take for them to go in like balls to the walls per se?
I don't know, but they will continue.
and maybe they have done, right?
Like the pump we've seen started,
it didn't start on a Saturday night or a Sunday morning.
So that was really unusual
because the markets are usually Monday to Friday.
So we will see these weird things,
weird pumps coming in and God knows,
maybe it was a tiny supply shock.
Maybe it was the beginning of the iceberg of the shock, right?
So I think we have to, like you said,
embrace for impact, you know, fasten your seatbelt.
I think the next few months are going to be incredible.
but so far like I said I am expecting the market until it's been proven I've been proven otherwise
wrong I'm expecting the cycle to finish at some point maybe at the end of the year maybe Q1 next
year but there is also the argument which I don't discount entirely since the all-time high was
prior to halving maybe the cycle is going to finish earlier I don't know it's difficult to say
but one thing that I'm gambling everything I have because like I said you know I'm all in
physically I think corrections are going to be way milder so we will not see a 80 percent not even a
70 percent to be honest like maybe a 50 60 percent will be the largest correction which is still
significant right if we if we pump up to 300 000 they will take us to what 120 130 still significant
correction but you know it's not going to be 90 there is also the psychological number which is
the etf entry which is still low because it's 47 50 but my spider senses are tingling they're saying
they won't let it go any lower so that would be my uber bearish case scenario right
but there is a possibility we are going to retest maybe the lower uh kind of 50s if we don't go up
as much because if we pump to i don't know 250 300 000 well then okay there's no chance we're going
to 40 000 or 50 000 but if we stop a little bit earlier 130 140 which is still a possibility i
mean until data is proven uh otherwise maybe maybe a 60k uh it could be on the card but that's that's
as far as i think is gonna go on the bad side right but i'm still expecting by the end of the
the year of 200,000. That's my target, more or less. It might be 180, it might be 220, but I think we
will see 200,000 this cycle. I'm fairly confident, but like I said, I don't have a crystal ball. I'm
just throwing numbers in the air because nobody knows, but that will be, I think, a healthy cycle.
And there is also, like you said, the option to break out, right, and just go to, I don't know,
half a million to uncharted territory, and maybe we will never see a huge correction. Maybe the
the market is going to correct 20% here, 20% there, 5% here, 5% there.
It's very much likely.
So if there is one cycle that we have to look out for,
it's actually this cycle because we have different players, like you said.
Like we cannot discount.
I know there is a meme.
This cycle is different, but then we have different people now.
So if there is one cycle, which we should be aware of has to be this one, right?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think that's a, you know, that, that just makes me so uber bullish here going forward.
But Mr. M Maricio, you've been so generous with your time.
So I really appreciate you coming on the show and it was great seeing you in Vegas.
Why don't you tell people where they can find out more about you, more about your show.
and maybe run into you at one of these great conferences.
Yeah, thank you again.
Thank you so much, man.
Anytime you want me to come on the show, I will come here.
You know, we had a fantastic chat also on my channel,
which is at Mr. M, so at Mr. M, all my social media.
So Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, you name it.
It's the same handle.
So I do have a podcast over there.
I upload.
I try three times a week, but it depends.
There are weeks I do four, weeks I do two.
I don't do less than two anyway.
I have a similar channel to yours.
Like I speak to interesting people such as yourself.
So thank you for having me on.
And yeah, I'll probably be, I am thinking to go to Hong Kong.
Are you coming to Hong Kong?
Bitcoin Hong Kong?
No, I won't be at Hong Kong, but I might be at Amsterdam.
That's a little teaser here.
I'll figure that out here pretty soon.
Hopefully Craig if you watching this dude get me on stage up there But yeah hopefully in Amsterdam Nice We should definitely have something like last year we done It was myself Isa and Robin Sayer
We did a Bitcoin panel, which was really cool in Abu Dhabi.
So I'll be definitely going in Abu Dhabi, most likely Amsterdam, and probably Hong Kong.
So I tend to go to the Bitcoin conferences only.
I miss Prague.
Man, I just came back from Vegas.
It was a 20-hour journey, man.
It was something else.
So I was broken in half and I couldn't do another, I think it's nine hours from here to Prague.
So I decided to stay, but I definitely am going to do Hong Kong, Amsterdam and Abu Dhabi.
So I'll definitely, hopefully see you there.
Yeah, I definitely want to check out Abu Dhabi.
I've never been.
So, I mean, I want to go and experience all that.
So maybe we'll run into each other there.
No guarantees.
I'm up in the air.
I'm a wild man, Maurizio.
So hopefully I'll be at all those places.
But yeah, great channel.
Couldn't recommend it more.
Keep doing what you're doing, man.
And yeah, thanks so much for coming on.
Thank you.
Really appreciate it.
Likewise, by the way.
Always a pleasure.
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