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Let's say Bitcoin goes to a million dollars in five years from now, with two options.

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Option one, sell Bitcoin at a million a coin. Now, I've had Bitcoin since 2013. I'm a low-cost

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basis Bitcoin holder. I've had a long track record in the crypto space. It kept me up at night. Whether

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your cost base is a hundred bucks, a thousand bucks, or a hundred thousand dollars, you're

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going to pay a very big tax relative to that a million dollar price you're selling at in five

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years. Or, as we all know who've been around in the Bitcoin space for a long time, there's an

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approximately 15 to 25 percent of all Bitcoin that's ever been mined is permanently lost forever.

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That's a lot of Bitcoin that's worth a ton of money.

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It's a big risk.

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I now have a wife and two young kids,

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and it kept me up at night with my Bitcoin and self-custody.

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What's up, guys?

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Before we get started, I've realized that over 50,000 of you guys

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keep coming back for every single episode.

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And while I'm eternally grateful for you guys to keep coming back,

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I've realized that 79% of you guys are not subscribed.

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So I have one small ask before we get started.

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If you guys could hit that subscribe button and hit that like button to help send this interview and many more to the stratosphere, it would be greatly appreciated.

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All right, enough from me. Let's get into the show.

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Bing bong. I am back with another edition of the State of Bitcoin podcast where I've got the man, the myth, the legend, Jason from Meanwhile here in the house.

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But Jason, there is so much talk right now about all of these corporations and treasuries putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet, and it's seemingly the new craze.

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But people don't have access to billions of dollars, or maybe the average person can't raise billions of dollars like many of these corporations have.

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So I wanted to get you on here to talk about some different ways that an individual can potentially

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use that infinite money glitch that Michael Saylor has coined to now scoop up and get as much Bitcoin

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as they want for their own personal balance sheet. So what are some ways that you are seeing that are

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unique and starting to pop up for the ways that individuals, not just businesses, can utilize

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this infinite money glitch.

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I love the term being able to borrow money to infinity

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and in his case, converting it into Bitcoin.

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We're a life insurance company denominated fully in Bitcoin.

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And actually what we have termed is a version of infinite banking.

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So similar concept where with infinite banking,

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it's this life insurance term where you become your own banker

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and you get a whole life insurance and you can borrow money tax-free from your policy.

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But money is devaluing.

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Inflation is real.

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Not only are corporations taking advantage of the infinite money glitch,

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but governments are printing money to infinity.

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We saw it in the pandemic, modern monetary theory,

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which is take your deficit and just keep moving the decimal point over to the right

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and keep borrowing more and more and more money.

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and what that does obviously is it makes a dozen eggs worth 10 bucks at the grocery store instead

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of what it used to be much less and everything is getting more and more expensive but wages aren't

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going up so how do you combat that well you need a harder money you need a more sound monetary

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system and obviously we all agree that bitcoin solves that problem but it's still not globally

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adopted the way that you know we believe it will be one day and there's a lot of different challenges

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to getting Bitcoin and acquiring Bitcoin.

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And then how do you hold Bitcoin for the long term?

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And how do you pass it down to your children

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to create this generational wealth?

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And I think we figured it out at Meanwhile.

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Yeah, and so this is very unique.

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So, I mean, it is kind of almost a grim topic, right,

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of life insurance.

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But I think people just think of the average ways.

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Hey, let me go try to get a loan,

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um you know whether it's just a personal loan or some other other ways uh you know what is unique

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about life insurance that you know maybe the the average person doesn't really know uh about it

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because i mean i've heard this infinite banking and you mentioned maybe some potential of the tax

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benefits i'd love to hear you dive in a little bit more of you know some of the the ways that

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these policies can work and you know how it can benefit uh you know these these hodlers here

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Yeah, no, definitely.

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Life insurance is one of those unique topics that most people don't understand.

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But when you're high net worth or a family office, they love life insurance because it has all these tax advantages.

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Basically, in a whole life insurance, assets grow tax-free.

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You can borrow money out of your life insurance policy tax-free.

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Your heirs of your estate, your beneficiaries, whether it's a spouse or partner or family or children, they get whatever assets are in your life insurance policy tax-free.

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So it's a pretty powerful financial vehicle to grow money tax-free, grow assets tax-free, and transfer it to your family tax-free.

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Now, it's always been in dollars.

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I mean, life insurance, I think it was first invented in the 1600s.

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It's a very old financial product.

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And the problem, as I alluded to earlier, in today's day and age, is that everything is dollar denominated and the dollar is inflating.

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And pretty much every fiat currency is inflating, is losing value.

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And so while the concept of life insurance is sound, this concept of infinite banking using life insurance to grow tax-free and borrow tax-free, et cetera, is sound, unfortunately, the asset growing tax-free is losing value.

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It's like if you're in a boat and you're trying – and the boat's taken on water and you have a bucket and you're trying to bail water out of the boat to make sure it doesn't capsize, it's like having a bucket with a hole in it.

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So you're trying to get water out, but you're not doing a good job because in this analogy, you have inflation that's just eating away at the growing value of your policy.

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So the way we solved it is, well, what if you took life insurance, which is great with all these tax benefits, and had it all be in Bitcoin, on the Bitcoin standard?

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And that's meanwhile in a nutshell.

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We were founded in 2022, backed by a bunch of well-known companies, Northwestern Mutual, Google's Gradient Ventures, Sam Altman from OpenAI.

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we had a bunch of investors in our seed round in 2022 we are domiciled in bermuda just like a lot

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of life insurance and reinsurance companies today we're in bermuda for a good reason because they

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are a very credible and legitimate regulator of life insurance companies and insurance companies

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in general and then earlier this year we raised a series a from fulger ventures framework ventures

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and Wences Cesarius from ZappoBank.

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And depending on when we announce it,

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I think there might be some Series B news

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coming out right around now

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or maybe in previous days or in the coming days.

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But you're going to hear some pretty interesting new names

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that are getting behind us as well for Series B.

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So we're a venture-funded life insurance company

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fully on the Bitcoin standard.

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Now, what does that mean?

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And it means that unlike with traditional life insurance where you pay your premiums in dollars, you're paying your premiums in Bitcoin.

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Your death benefits paid out in Bitcoin.

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And when you get policy loans, it's also in Bitcoin.

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So it's a pretty unique take on life insurance.

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And the reason we do it in Bitcoin is because we think Bitcoin is going to go up in value.

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that everything on the Bitcoin standard gets less and less expensive globally,

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as opposed to on the dollar standard and the fiat standard,

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everything gets more and more expensive.

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Yeah, and I mean, it seems like that's just the way to go.

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I mean, a common topic is how much Bitcoin do you need to retire,

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but a little denominator out of there that not too many people bring up

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is just how much you're going to be able to pass on to your heirs,

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the potential tax advantages, disadvantages, these different ways, how long you're going to live.

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I mean, all of these different factors, you know, kind of take into play. But, you know, you guys have coined the term infinite banking,

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you know, and I've heard that from multiple other life insurance companies, not just ones in the Bitcoin space.

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So go into a little bit more of what that means, I guess, for the average person here,

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because obviously being denominated in Bitcoin,

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it's going to help you guys out tremendously.

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And shout out to all those great VC firms

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in the Bitcoin space that are backing you guys.

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I mean, obviously this means that the Bitcoiners

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see what you guys are building

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and see it as something that is of need of the market.

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But just back from the generic of a life insurance policy,

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what is infinite banking, I guess, at basic terms?

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Yeah, infinite banking has actually been around for decades. And it was coined, I think, by Nelson Nash, who's an old life insurance guru. But basically, it's a way to be your own banker by using whole life insurance, the whole life insurance policies cash value as your personal source of liquidity.

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The pitch is pretty compelling. Your money compounds on a tax-deferred basis inside the policy while you borrow against it tax-free to fund opportunities, investments, emergencies, without having to ask a bank for permission.

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But you set it up in dollars. It feels safe, steady, and smart, but fast forward 15 years and the dollar you've been compounding has quietly lost a third of its purchasing power.

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So while the policy still works in a mechanical sense, any withdrawals or loans you take in a currency that buys less every year is kind of defeating the point.

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So the concept of infinite banking remains, but the challenge is the monetary environment around it.

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And so when you do infinite banking in Bitcoin, that solves the problem of inflation.

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Yeah, so, okay, so that makes a lot of sense.

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And so, I mean, basically, instead of, you know, using this tool and just having to keep on borrowing, keep on borrowing, keep on borrowing, because you have Bitcoin that is going to appreciate over time, you know, theoretically, I mean, obviously, this is what we all believe here.

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But I mean, when you have the fixed supply of this asset, just being able to hold on to it longer time, you know, perceives it as more value as more people come on to online.

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line. But with the life insurance aspect of it too, you mentioned being able to pass it on to

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the heirs and how that works. I'm curious, how do you guys store the Bitcoin? And how do you make

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sure that it's secured in a sense where, hey, maybe one of my kids that I don't know that is

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around that's maybe running around here. Maybe Brandon Jr. is running around here in some other

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place. But either way, tongue in cheek joke, if you had some kids and you wanted to pass it all down,

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how would you know that they would be able to get it securely? And how does that process work?

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I doubt she named him Brandon.

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I mean, come on, look at this guy, dude. I mean, I don't have the gel in, but the haircut,

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the mustache, I mean, the Brandon Jr. Yeah, I don't mind Brandon Jr., but it sounds like

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you ghosted her. No, I'm kidding. So let me explain how everything works. And I'll use an

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analogy for traditional life insurance, because I think it's important to understand. Most people

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don't understand how traditional life insurance works. So with traditional life insurance,

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generally, you go to a life insurance carrier, pick any of the big ones that you know, and you

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ask them for coverage. You say, I'd like a whole life insurance policy. I'd like, let's say, a

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million dollars in death benefit coverage. They'll say, great. They'll crunch some numbers based on

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your age and health and sex, and they'll dictate to you an amount of premium that you have to pay

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in dollars either each month or each year. And in that premium are baked in fees and expenses.

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And because it's whole life insurance, not term, there's an investment account component to it.

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Term life, it's just you pay dollars, and if you die, your family member gets a cash payout.

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whole life is that plus an investment account that grows tax-free it's more expensive and the reason

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that it has all these tax benefits that it grows tax-free and you can get policy loans tax-free

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and the death benefits tax-free is because the government has incentive is trying to incentivize

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people to have life insurance because it protects them protects their family their loved ones and it

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creates less dependency on the state less dependency on the government for handouts for help for

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welfare. So you have these incentives, and if you can afford it, they want you to get it.

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And so you ask this, you know, a life insurance carrier for a million dollars in death benefit,

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you're told based on your age and everything, how much you have to pay in premium, either each month

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or each year in dollars. And that premium goes into like a mutual fund, essentially.

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And that mutual fund grows at a guaranteed growth rate, generally around 4%. Regardless of market's

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performance, you're going to get 4% growth every year for the remainder of your life. Now, after

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two decades, let's say it's up 30%, you can borrow money out of that portfolio, that investment

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account tax-free. So while any other investment you might have that's up 30% and you want cash,

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you most likely have to pay capital gains tax on that 30% appreciation. But in life insurance,

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It's zero tax, no capital gains tax.

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The only thing in life more scarce than Bitcoin is time.

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Unfortunately, we know it's going to come to an end,

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but I've got a solution for you to help pass on your Bitcoin

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and use it as the generational wealth it is intended for.

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Meanwhile, is Bitcoin-denominated life insurance.

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Instead of paying your premiums in fiat,

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you pay your premiums in Bitcoin

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and you can grow your holdings with Bitcoin-denominated yield.

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You can access liquidity through tax-free policy loans without any repayment obligations or margin

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call risks. And when that unfortunate time comes, your policy will be paid out in Bitcoin,

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seamlessly and tax-free. So your beneficiaries will receive more Bitcoin than you originally

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deposited. It's a way to protect, grow, and pass on your Bitcoin to the next generation.

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So check out Meanwhile, the fully regulated life insurance policy all backed by Bitcoin.

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Use the referral code in the link down below and you can get an exclusive offer for Green

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Candle listeners.

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Protect yourself and protect your generational wealth with Meanwhile.

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All right, enough from me.

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Let's get back to the show.

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You get all the cash that you can to borrow out of it.

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Generally, you can borrow up to a certain percentage of what's called the surrender

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value, which is a life insurance calculation determined by the amount of premiums you've

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paid, the amount of years that it's been accruing, compound interest, etc.

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And so you borrow that cash you don pay a dime in capital gains tax and you don have to pay back the loan It nets out of your death benefit So if you borrow 100K and your death benefit was originally a million dollars then your new death benefit is

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You don't have to repay the loan.

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And the interest rate on that loan is about 7%, which also gets netted out of your investment account, of your death benefit, of the dividends it might be paying.

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And that's how traditional life insurance works.

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Now, meanwhile, I had to kind of flip the script upside down for our product because our product operates in Bitcoin, which is a scarce asset, whereas fiat is not a scarce asset.

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And so to operate in a scarce asset, we can't dictate to anybody how much Bitcoin they have to pay in premium because everyone has a different amount of Bitcoin.

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So we can't tell you, Brandon, when you get a policy that you have to pay 10 Bitcoin premium because you might say, hold on, I only got nine Bitcoin.

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What are you talking about?

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So instead, the way it works is potential clients come to Meanwell with the amount of Bitcoin, spot Bitcoin, not the ETF or anything else, but actual spot Bitcoin that they want to use as premium.

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The way we've constructed the whole life policy is you pay those premiums over 10 years in equal annual installments.

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So let's say you have 10 Bitcoin that you want to use as premium.

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You're going to come to Meanwell saying, hey, I have 10 Bitcoin.

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What do I get with that?

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We will then crunch numbers based on your age, your health, your sex, your smoking status, and give you a death benefit ratio that you get relative to the amount of premium that you're paying.

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So as an example, a 35-year-old healthy non-smoking male, 10 Bitcoin in premium yields about 18 or so Bitcoin in death benefit.

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So you pay the premium over 10 years.

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That's one Bitcoin a year for 10 years.

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Then you're done for life.

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and instead of going into a mutual fund and you know tracking the market at four percent a year

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growth rate your bitcoin is going to grow at two percent per year that's our guaranteed growth rate

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to every policyholder we're giving you two percent yield in bitcoin terms not in dollar terms everything

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we do is in bitcoin terms there's no dollarization we don't realize there's no realization of any

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Bitcoin into dollars. We don't index against the dollar. Everything's in Bitcoin. So in this example

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I gave before, your premium is going to be 10 Bitcoin over 10 years, one Bitcoin a year,

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regardless of the price of Bitcoin. Even if Bitcoin doubles next year and you say, hey,

209
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last year my Bitcoin, my premium was $100,000 because that's where Bitcoin is trading. And

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this year it's $200,000. That's not fair. Well, no, that's not how it works. We operate in Bitcoin.

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Last year, your premium was one Bitcoin. This year, your premium is one Bitcoin.

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And yeah, while it might have doubled, your 18 Bitcoin payout, which last year was worth $1.8 million, this year is worth $3.6 million because one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin.

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And so as long as you're following that Michael Saylor approach of thinking in Bitcoin, Jack Mahlers, whoever started to coin it, think in Bitcoin.

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It's a very important concept that we embody and that you have to do in order to understand how our product works is think in Bitcoin.

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One Bitcoin always equals one Bitcoin.

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And so you're paying your premium in Bitcoin, your death benefits in Bitcoin.

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It's guaranteed.

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It's fixed.

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Even if you die tomorrow after paying only one Bitcoin in premium, you still get 18 Bitcoin paid out to your beneficiaries.

220
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We're going to underwrite people that we believe are healthy and going to live long, healthy lives.

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We're not going to underwrite anyone that has a terminal illness, for example.

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We do everything in-house.

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We have an internal insurance underwriting team.

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And so we have about a 70% approval rating of applicants.

225
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So we're very conservative.

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We actually have employees that have applied for policies that were rejected for health reasons.

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So we're not just going to approve out anyone.

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We're a very conservative, risk-averse life insurance company.

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And so what gets interesting about how everything works is when we get into the policy loans.

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Now, the policy loans, they sell policies in and of themselves, people that don't even have families,

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00:19:47,031 --> 00:19:52,891
who don't even think they need life insurance realize the benefit of a policy loan and they

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sign up. And here's how that works. Let's say Bitcoin goes to a million dollars and five years

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from now. If you have a policy with us, you have two options. Option one, sell Bitcoin at a million

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a coin and pay a very big capital gains tax relative to your cost basis. Whether your cost

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base is a hundred bucks, a thousand bucks, or a hundred thousand dollars, you're going to pay a

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very big tax relative to that $1 million price you're selling at in five years. Or if you have

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a policy, you originate a policy loan. And the way that works is you can borrow up to 90% of the

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surrender value of your policy at meanwhile. You're borrowing in Bitcoin. Remember, everything's

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Bitcoin. You're not borrowing dollars. You're not borrowing dollars against your Bitcoin.

240
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You're not borrowing from a lending desk or an exchange or even an insurance company. You're

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borrowing out of your own policy, which in essence is you're borrowing from your beneficiaries. If

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it's a spouse or your children, you're basically borrowing from them. And in the example I gave

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earlier, 18 Bitcoin death benefit, it's going to get netted out of that. So let's say five years

244
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from now, you want to borrow two Bitcoin out of your policy. You've been paying one Bitcoin a year

245
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for five years so far, and you're going to borrow two Bitcoin, which is under that 90% of the

246
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surrender value threshold. So you go to meanwhile, you go into your account, you click policy loan,

247
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You do two Bitcoin.

248
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And meanwhile, so it's great.

249
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What wallet do you want it sent to?

250
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You give us a wallet, a Bitcoin wallet address.

251
00:21:19,011 --> 00:21:21,691
We're then going to screen it, make sure it's not going to North Korea.

252
00:21:23,291 --> 00:21:24,991
And we're going to send you two Bitcoin.

253
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At that point, meanwhile, it's done.

254
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What do you do with the two Bitcoin?

255
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Presumably, you want cash.

256
00:21:31,371 --> 00:21:32,291
So how are you going to get cash?

257
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You're going to go to an exchange or a broker.

258
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And you're going to say, I got two Bitcoin to sell.

259
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And you want to sell it at a million a coin because that's where Bitcoin's trading.

260
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they're going to say, great, but hold on.

261
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Where did this Bitcoin come from and what's the cost basis?

262
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Well, it comes from your regulated whole life insurance policy at Meanwhile.

263
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And the cost basis is established on the day you originate the loan.

264
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In this case, the cost basis is a million a coin.

265
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Now, while your cost basis on your original Bitcoin might be $100,000 a coin or $100 a coin,

266
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you're not selling that Bitcoin.

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You are borrowing new Bitcoin at a new cost basis.

268
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Think back to the other example where the portfolio was up 30%.

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You borrowed, you don't have to pay a dime in capital gains on that 30% appreciation.

270
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This is the same concept, except Bitcoin is a highly convex asset and is up 1,000% here.

271
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And you don't have to pay a dime in capital gains tax on that 1,000%.

272
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And this is how that mechanically works.

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This assumes new stepped-up cost basis.

274
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So the exchange says, oh, great.

275
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they say your cost base is a million a coin you limit order sell a million a coin your cost basis

276
00:22:42,691 --> 00:22:48,391
equals your sale price there's no delta there's no difference in those prices you have no taxes

277
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no 1099 two bitcoin at a million a coin that's two million cash gets wired when you withdraw to

278
00:22:55,071 --> 00:23:00,611
your bank account you never have to repay that loan your new death benefit nets down from 18

279
00:23:00,611 --> 00:23:06,291
Bitcoin to 16 Bitcoin. Just like with the traditional life insurance, you borrowed 100k,

280
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it went from a million death benefit to 900k. Similar concept, except we're in Bitcoin. So

281
00:23:11,871 --> 00:23:18,951
it went from 18 to 16. It's a low interest rate loan. You pay 3% interest on the loan outstanding

282
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on the two Bitcoin, which is also in Bitcoin terms and gets netted out of your death benefit.

283
00:23:25,331 --> 00:23:33,411
So really what you have left is 16 Bitcoin and then minus the 3% per year on the two Bitcoin until you either repay the loan.

284
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You don't have to repay the loan, but you have this opportunity where if Bitcoin does have another bear market winter, let's say it crashes from a million to 200,000, 80% drawdown.

285
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You have the option of repaying your loan.

286
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Why would you do that?

287
00:23:48,951 --> 00:24:02,371
Well, by repaying the loan at 200K a coin, so 400K total, you free up more loan capacity for yourself in the future if you think Bitcoin in the next bull market is going to go to 5 million a coin.

288
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But you don't have to repay the loan.

289
00:24:05,171 --> 00:24:07,711
You still have 16 Bitcoin, which you can draw against.

290
00:24:08,811 --> 00:24:11,591
And that's how the policy loans work.

291
00:24:11,591 --> 00:24:22,591
It's a pretty clever way to use life insurance and all the tax benefits and tax-free policy loans and life insurance for your Bitcoin.

292
00:24:24,271 --> 00:24:30,171
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like a huge hack here, and I think everybody should jump on it to say the very least.

293
00:24:30,451 --> 00:24:33,171
But you mentioned the tax benefits.

294
00:24:33,171 --> 00:24:38,031
Now, when I hear tax benefits, I always think IRAs, right?

295
00:24:38,071 --> 00:24:40,151
Everybody always talks about these retirement accounts.

296
00:24:40,151 --> 00:24:45,351
You know, these are the quote unquote, like the stereotypical tax advantage ways.

297
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losses since it launched.

298
00:25:12,191 --> 00:25:18,271
Salt was the first platform to offer Bitcoin collateralized loans starting way back in 2016.

299
00:25:18,271 --> 00:25:22,831
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300
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301
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302
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303
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304
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305
00:25:39,571 --> 00:25:49,251
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306
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307
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308
00:25:55,951 --> 00:26:05,771
What is the difference between or maybe some of the tax advantages that a life insurance policy would have that are benefits over maybe, say, an IRA?

309
00:26:05,771 --> 00:26:11,691
and is there a limit after you start paying this down

310
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of when you can start taking out this life insurance policy?

311
00:26:15,611 --> 00:26:18,111
Because obviously retirement accounts have a certain age

312
00:26:18,111 --> 00:26:19,451
and all of that stuff.

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00:26:19,871 --> 00:26:22,671
So yeah, I'd love to hear kind of the differences

314
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between the two and some of the advantages

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00:26:24,931 --> 00:26:28,571
that life insurance has over these retirement accounts.

316
00:26:29,251 --> 00:26:30,151
Yeah, no, for sure.

317
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And I get that question a lot as well.

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So with IRAs or Roth IRAs,

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which are after-tax dollars, and so you don't have to pay tax on the way out.

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00:26:37,691 --> 00:26:39,551
You have to wait until you're 59 and a half years old

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before you can access any of them without penalties.

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With life insurance, you don't have to wait until you're 59 and a half or any age.

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With our policies, the only time you have to wait is from onset of a new policy.

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You can't get policy loans for two years.

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So after a two-year incubation period,

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you can start borrowing up to 90% of the surrender value of your policy.

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00:27:04,031 --> 00:27:08,351
In year one of whole life insurance, there is no surrender value.

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It really starts after year one.

329
00:27:11,451 --> 00:27:17,351
And then there's an additional year built in for AML purposes with our regulator.

330
00:27:17,751 --> 00:27:24,911
So two years after your policy is bound and active with meanwhile, you can then begin borrowing against it tax free.

331
00:27:25,791 --> 00:27:36,811
Now, there are tax advantages to having a Roth IRA because you are investing after-tax dollars into the market or into Bitcoin.

332
00:27:36,811 --> 00:27:43,651
And when you hit 59.5, you can draw against that Roth IRA without paying any taxes.

333
00:27:44,431 --> 00:27:45,611
But it's a long time to wait.

334
00:27:46,131 --> 00:27:50,031
And the average age of Bitcoiners is much younger.

335
00:27:50,031 --> 00:28:05,771
And while we all believe that Bitcoin will go up a lot in our lifetime, to be able to get liquidity at a younger age through life insurance is a huge advantage.

336
00:28:05,771 --> 00:28:12,811
yeah i i mean i feel like the timing on all of it is basically the big unlock here is like you know

337
00:28:12,811 --> 00:28:20,571
as as somebody that you know is a 20-ish years away from that 59 and a half or 30 years or so

338
00:28:20,571 --> 00:28:24,911
you know it seems like that that's a long time to wait of course you know maybe there's benefits

339
00:28:24,911 --> 00:28:31,191
that forces me to hodl but um you know being able to utilize some of that uh you know spending power

340
00:28:31,191 --> 00:28:35,211
and everything like that right now seems to be more of the way.

341
00:28:35,671 --> 00:28:40,191
Now, why do you think that this isn't as popular of a strategy?

342
00:28:40,431 --> 00:28:42,611
Is there some limitations for somebody to get in

343
00:28:42,611 --> 00:28:48,091
outside of maybe the just traditional health-related aspects?

344
00:28:48,311 --> 00:28:51,731
But is there some sort of monetary figure that you have to get above

345
00:28:51,731 --> 00:28:55,151
or a minimum account that you have to have

346
00:28:55,151 --> 00:29:00,591
in order to gain a policy like this or obtain a policy like this?

347
00:29:01,191 --> 00:29:05,511
Our minimum policy size is 0.25 Bitcoin over 10 years.

348
00:29:05,931 --> 00:29:11,111
So if you do the math, that's 0.025 Bitcoin a year for 10 years.

349
00:29:11,211 --> 00:29:11,931
That's the minimum.

350
00:29:12,551 --> 00:29:16,471
Today's price is that's $25,000 over 10 years or $2,500 per year.

351
00:29:17,371 --> 00:29:19,211
It's pretty affordable by everyone.

352
00:29:20,391 --> 00:29:25,051
We actually recently lowered our minimum from one Bitcoin over 10 years down to 0.25.

353
00:29:25,251 --> 00:29:29,591
And the reason we did that is because when we started our company in 2022,

354
00:29:29,591 --> 00:29:32,311
Bitcoin was trading around $30,000 a coin.

355
00:29:33,611 --> 00:29:35,771
And one Bitcoin was the minimum policy size.

356
00:29:36,291 --> 00:29:38,611
Bitcoin has quadrupled since then.

357
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And as a result, we've slashed the minimums by a quarter.

358
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So we really want to democratize access to our product,

359
00:29:48,611 --> 00:29:51,011
to anyone and everyone with Bitcoin,

360
00:29:51,871 --> 00:29:55,551
by not making it prohibitively expensive

361
00:29:55,551 --> 00:29:58,871
or by having the minimums be so expensive.

362
00:29:59,591 --> 00:30:21,211
The maximum policy size we do is 50 Bitcoin per a single life. So the premiums relative to the death benefit of 50 depend on age and everything. But we want to reach a billion people across the globe over the next decade.

363
00:30:21,531 --> 00:30:24,311
That's really been our stated mission if you Google us.

364
00:30:24,911 --> 00:30:34,171
Our CEO and our co-founders have said many times that our goal is to be the largest life insurer in the world.

365
00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:38,151
The way we're going to get there is by covering as many people as possible.

366
00:30:38,971 --> 00:30:45,371
And with the help of Bitcoin going up by a lot, which we all are Bitcoin bulls, we think that we're going to get there.

367
00:30:45,371 --> 00:30:53,751
it's really an unbelievable product because it's accessible by lots of people. All you have to do

368
00:30:53,751 --> 00:30:59,211
is own Bitcoin, apply for a policy. If you're healthy, well, you'll probably get a policy with

369
00:30:59,211 --> 00:31:06,411
us. And what do you get from it? You get 2% annual compounded growth rate in Bitcoin terms. That's

370
00:31:06,411 --> 00:31:11,851
how in the example I gave earlier, 10 Bitcoin premium becomes 18 Bitcoin death benefit. For

371
00:31:11,851 --> 00:31:23,061
For that 35 that 2 a year amortized out to age 100 compounded If you do the math it approximately 2 So you get yield Bitcoin yield not dollar yield

372
00:31:23,401 --> 00:31:25,061
You get these tax-free policy loans.

373
00:31:25,741 --> 00:31:31,141
And the last benefit that you get is when you pass away, your family, your loved ones,

374
00:31:31,221 --> 00:31:37,241
whoever your beneficiaries are stated in your policy, they get the death benefit in Bitcoin

375
00:31:37,241 --> 00:31:39,741
at a new cost basis as well.

376
00:31:40,601 --> 00:31:41,981
So think about it this way.

377
00:31:41,981 --> 00:31:48,481
You have Bitcoin in a ledger, some USB key in a safe or safety deposit box somewhere.

378
00:31:49,621 --> 00:32:01,981
Do your loved ones A, know the location, B, know how to access it, C, know how to use a USB key or a ledger or a stick, D, know where to go to liquidate it if that's what they want to do?

379
00:32:01,981 --> 00:32:21,181
I mean, we're talking about a treasure map that you have to leave for your family of ledgers, of passwords, of private keys, of safes, of safety deposit boxes, Google authenticators, YubiKeys, you name it, just to be able to move Bitcoin or liquidate Bitcoin.

380
00:32:21,661 --> 00:32:23,121
Otherwise, your Bitcoin dies with you.

381
00:32:23,121 --> 00:32:32,041
And as we all know, who've been around in the Bitcoin space for a long time, there's an approximately 15 to 25% of all Bitcoin that's ever been mined is permanently lost forever.

382
00:32:32,761 --> 00:32:35,361
That's a lot of Bitcoin that's worth a ton of money.

383
00:32:35,601 --> 00:32:48,441
That would be such a shame for any person like you or me or lots of people we know if they tragically suddenly died tomorrow, if their Bitcoin died with them and they had a family that they left behind that couldn't access that Bitcoin.

384
00:32:48,761 --> 00:32:50,221
I mean, what a tragedy that would be.

385
00:32:50,221 --> 00:32:54,321
It's worth a lot of money and it could take care of families and people with a lot of Bitcoin.

386
00:32:54,421 --> 00:32:56,281
It could take care of families for generations.

387
00:32:57,161 --> 00:33:01,981
This bull run, I think everybody should focus on getting their Bitcoin in self-custody and off exchanges.

388
00:33:02,461 --> 00:33:04,921
We all saw what happened last time with the huge blowoffs.

389
00:33:05,021 --> 00:33:08,941
We had Celsius, FTX, all of the big dogs blowing up.

390
00:33:09,061 --> 00:33:12,401
Well, this time, everybody's being smart and holding their Bitcoin in self-custody.

391
00:33:12,541 --> 00:33:16,241
This is why I'm going with the number one hardware wallet in the game.

392
00:33:16,281 --> 00:33:17,141
That's Trezor.

393
00:33:17,141 --> 00:33:24,901
You can go to Trezor.io or the affiliate link below to get yours for 5% off using promo code GREENCANDLE5.

394
00:33:25,141 --> 00:33:28,461
Get your Bitcoin off exchanges in the easiest way possible.

395
00:33:28,861 --> 00:33:30,041
They are a trusted brand.

396
00:33:30,401 --> 00:33:34,041
They've been in the game the longest of any hardware wallets out there.

397
00:33:34,341 --> 00:33:42,341
So that's why I've partnered with them, making it the easiest for you to get your Bitcoin off exchanges and not have to worry about any counterparty risks.

398
00:33:42,461 --> 00:33:43,141
So do it today.

399
00:33:43,281 --> 00:33:44,641
Go to the affiliate link below.

400
00:33:44,641 --> 00:33:47,041
Use promo code GREENCANDLE5.

401
00:33:47,141 --> 00:33:49,101
Enough from me. Let's get back to the show.

402
00:33:50,101 --> 00:33:57,961
And for you to risk your Bitcoin dying with you, I mean, it's a big risk.

403
00:33:58,121 --> 00:34:03,261
And it hit me most when I came across Meanwhile last year.

404
00:34:03,861 --> 00:34:05,581
Now, I've had Bitcoin since 2013.

405
00:34:05,941 --> 00:34:07,421
I'm a low-cost basis Bitcoin holder.

406
00:34:07,641 --> 00:34:10,981
I've had a long track record in the crypto space, a bunch of different businesses.

407
00:34:12,001 --> 00:34:15,141
And I now have a wife and two young kids.

408
00:34:15,141 --> 00:34:20,041
and it kept me up at night with my Bitcoin in self-custody.

409
00:34:20,201 --> 00:34:22,001
Does my wife know how to access my Bitcoin?

410
00:34:22,841 --> 00:34:24,181
She's been with me since 2014.

411
00:34:24,721 --> 00:34:25,681
She has her own wallet.

412
00:34:25,781 --> 00:34:27,841
My kids have their own wallets that we manage.

413
00:34:28,941 --> 00:34:32,581
But she's never opened my wallet before.

414
00:34:33,241 --> 00:34:34,581
And every time she's opened her wallet,

415
00:34:34,821 --> 00:34:36,081
it's been with me over her shoulder.

416
00:34:36,081 --> 00:34:38,441
And if I were to disappear tomorrow,

417
00:34:38,961 --> 00:34:39,981
could she open my wallet?

418
00:34:41,141 --> 00:34:44,501
And the truth is I'm not so sure.

419
00:34:45,141 --> 00:34:56,641
So having a policy that, meanwhile, protects my family against the worst-case scenarios because we custody at Anchorage, one of the best custodians on the planet.

420
00:34:56,981 --> 00:35:02,741
They're a federally chartered trust company, which means that all the crypto they have in custody is bankruptcy remote.

421
00:35:03,281 --> 00:35:08,701
Plus they have insurance for PNC insurance and also for protection.

422
00:35:08,701 --> 00:35:15,561
they're as regulated and licensed as they come, as protected and covered as they come from an

423
00:35:15,561 --> 00:35:20,901
insurance, from a custody perspective. We love working with Anchorage and they've done really

424
00:35:20,901 --> 00:35:26,121
well by us. And we feel very confident that Bitcoin custody to Anchorage is going to be there for many,

425
00:35:26,241 --> 00:35:31,901
many generations to come. So what you get with us beyond yield, beyond tax-free policy loans, beyond

426
00:35:31,901 --> 00:35:35,801
the seamless death benefit where your family gets more Bitcoin than you ever had. I mean,

427
00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:42,121
you attend Bitcoin to your name, 18 Bitcoin in death benefit goes to your family, is the protection

428
00:35:42,121 --> 00:35:47,121
of Bitcoin and one of the best custodians on the planet, where you, your loved ones don't even need

429
00:35:47,121 --> 00:35:51,801
to know how to use passwords, private keys, and Bitcoin wallets to access the Bitcoin. Because

430
00:35:51,801 --> 00:35:59,981
when there is a claim, when the insured passes away, and a beneficiary files a claim with

431
00:35:59,981 --> 00:36:11,221
Meanwhile, they have the option of working with Meanwhile in Anchorage to do whatever they need to do, where they will have white glove concierge service to help them liquidate the Bitcoin if that's what they want to do.

432
00:36:11,801 --> 00:36:14,381
Transfer the Bitcoin to a new wallet if that's what they want to do.

433
00:36:14,381 --> 00:36:20,141
It assumes a new cost basis on the day the claim is filed, so it's tax-free Bitcoin.

434
00:36:21,301 --> 00:36:27,501
And they don't need to know how to use a wallet to have the help of this white glove service.

435
00:36:27,501 --> 00:36:45,001
And that's an important concept because I know I'd want that for my wife. I know a lot of people would want that for their family, where you might be the Bitcoin expert and know everything there is to know about wallets. Your family members are not necessarily. And to have them be in good hands is really important as well.

436
00:36:45,001 --> 00:36:54,881
So what we're thinking about here is generational wealth, is passing on your Bitcoin to your family seamlessly without any stress.

437
00:36:55,561 --> 00:37:00,141
I mean, we're talking about like a grieving family member just lost their loved one.

438
00:37:00,561 --> 00:37:02,841
Now having to figure out where's the password?

439
00:37:03,341 --> 00:37:04,601
What is stress?

440
00:37:05,401 --> 00:37:06,261
And it's worth a lot of money.

441
00:37:06,461 --> 00:37:09,141
Like how that would weigh on a lot of people.

442
00:37:09,541 --> 00:37:11,961
So we take that risk away as well.

443
00:37:11,961 --> 00:37:16,781
and you know how else are you going to hold your bitcoin for the long term in a ledger

444
00:37:16,781 --> 00:37:22,461
in a safety deposit box i mean if it's in a safe in your house there's a lot of risks there i mean

445
00:37:22,461 --> 00:37:27,601
look at the palisades fire for example in california there are there is anecdotes of a lot

446
00:37:27,601 --> 00:37:32,101
of ledgers getting burnt to the ground even though they were in quote unquote fireproof safes

447
00:37:32,101 --> 00:37:38,121
the heat was so massively high that a lot of those safes turned into rubble and the ledgers

448
00:37:38,121 --> 00:37:42,841
disappeared with them. And if you didn't have your private keys backed up, then more Bitcoin was lost

449
00:37:42,841 --> 00:37:49,781
in that 15 to 25% number of Bitcoin that's ever been mined being lost. So where is your Bitcoin

450
00:37:49,781 --> 00:37:55,601
really safe for the long term? It's hard to know. But when you use a trusted custodian like an

451
00:37:55,601 --> 00:38:02,561
Anchorage, I think you have to pick someone. You're either going to self-insure, self-custody,

452
00:38:02,561 --> 00:38:05,021
or you're going to trust a third party that does it right.

453
00:38:06,941 --> 00:38:07,381
Yeah.

454
00:38:07,561 --> 00:38:08,821
And I mean, I think like, you know,

455
00:38:08,821 --> 00:38:11,381
the combination of using you guys in Anchorage,

456
00:38:11,481 --> 00:38:12,801
it is very interesting too,

457
00:38:12,841 --> 00:38:14,521
because obviously Anchorage got, you know,

458
00:38:14,541 --> 00:38:17,761
one of the biggest backings as like an insurance policy.

459
00:38:18,121 --> 00:38:21,681
And they're kind of on the cutting edge of all of this newer,

460
00:38:21,961 --> 00:38:24,561
I guess, implementations of Bitcoin.

461
00:38:25,141 --> 00:38:28,801
And, you know, I think Bitcoiners kind of have the, you know,

462
00:38:28,801 --> 00:38:31,621
hey, I don't want to let anybody know where my Bitcoin is

463
00:38:31,621 --> 00:38:32,781
and all of that stuff.

464
00:38:32,921 --> 00:38:34,601
But, you know, it's definitely something

465
00:38:34,601 --> 00:38:36,701
that I think everybody should be thinking about

466
00:38:36,701 --> 00:38:39,281
like here going forward with, you know,

467
00:38:39,281 --> 00:38:40,421
just the different strategies.

468
00:38:40,421 --> 00:38:43,221
I mean, you know, I wouldn't trust my mom

469
00:38:43,221 --> 00:38:46,741
or, you know, even my siblings who are younger than me

470
00:38:46,741 --> 00:38:51,281
to operate Bitcoin and, you know, be able to access it

471
00:38:51,281 --> 00:38:53,781
even if they had my private keys and all of that stuff.

472
00:38:53,961 --> 00:38:56,021
So it's definitely, you know,

473
00:38:56,021 --> 00:38:58,181
something that would take a lot of, I guess,

474
00:38:58,181 --> 00:39:03,541
stress away from these families to say the very least but uh i mean you mentioned something

475
00:39:03,541 --> 00:39:08,581
interesting there jason you've been in bitcoin for quite some time man so uh tell us a little

476
00:39:08,581 --> 00:39:14,501
bit about how you're seeing the overall space develop um not only just with like meanwhile

477
00:39:14,501 --> 00:39:19,381
and some of these other companies like anchor watch and others coming on but um you know how

478
00:39:19,381 --> 00:39:25,861
do you see this like space transforming and is it coming a little faster than you thought it would

479
00:39:25,861 --> 00:39:34,701
no uh for sure um but it also this conversation just reminded me of one one last thing that i

480
00:39:34,701 --> 00:39:39,941
think is super interesting before i get into you know my overall view on growth over the last 12

481
00:39:39,941 --> 00:39:48,021
years um remember that story a few months ago of some guy i think it was from italy in new york city

482
00:39:48,021 --> 00:39:55,241
who was held you know captive in an apartment because he had bitcoin or crypto and the these

483
00:39:55,241 --> 00:39:59,501
you know bad guys were trying to like they were torturing him to get his private keys

484
00:39:59,501 --> 00:40:05,761
yeah so those actually stories are kind of like spiking up here recently so i don't know if you

485
00:40:05,761 --> 00:40:11,301
follow like jameson lop on on x yeah he's been always like detailing these that they're they're

486
00:40:11,301 --> 00:40:18,381
just starting to pop up a lot more so gun to the head scenarios with your bitcoin well if you have

487
00:40:18,381 --> 00:40:24,401
it in a life insurance policy with meanwhile no one can get your bitcoin you can only borrow up

488
00:40:24,401 --> 00:40:26,981
to 90% of the surrender value of your policy at any given time.

489
00:40:28,321 --> 00:40:31,601
And it's a whole process in order to do so.

490
00:40:32,541 --> 00:40:35,101
And so if you have all your Bitcoin in a life insurance policy,

491
00:40:35,701 --> 00:40:38,761
even someone with a gun to your head can't get it.

492
00:40:39,141 --> 00:40:41,021
They literally cannot get it.

493
00:40:41,641 --> 00:40:49,041
It is a safe place to put your Bitcoin for the long term for you and for your family.

494
00:40:49,041 --> 00:40:57,921
and it's really this you know that that's another advantage that's very rarely discussed because

495
00:40:57,921 --> 00:41:03,361
like you said these cases are starting to pop up more and more and it's it's scary man i mean

496
00:41:03,361 --> 00:41:09,641
listen you and i are in a podcast now like hopefully going viral and people are gonna

497
00:41:09,641 --> 00:41:15,481
know like oh i'm jason i'm gonna track this guy down brandon or whatever like i don't want that

498
00:41:15,481 --> 00:41:20,001
shit to happen to me but i know that i'm protected because my bitcoin is in a policy and no one could

499
00:41:20,001 --> 00:41:27,081
get it even if they did whatever they needed to do to me it just you can't get it and so i feel

500
00:41:27,081 --> 00:41:34,281
protected from that perspective um and it's an added bonus yeah 100 and i mean uh yeah speaking

501
00:41:34,281 --> 00:41:39,201
of that i went to jameson lop's x profile like during this and he tweeted out three hours ago

502
00:41:39,201 --> 00:41:45,021
yesterday former crypto trader was kidnapped near paris and strangled until he passed out

503
00:41:45,021 --> 00:41:51,381
he was released presumably after his wife paid a 10 000 euro ransom so it still is not not even

504
00:41:51,381 --> 00:41:58,061
like a big amount it was just 10 000 euros and you know like these you know it's not like we're

505
00:41:58,061 --> 00:42:02,961
talking millions and millions of dollars euros whatever it's you know things like that that are

506
00:42:02,961 --> 00:42:07,781
just seemingly popping up everywhere around and you know they always joke the eight dollar wrench

507
00:42:07,781 --> 00:42:12,661
attack is always the biggest threat to bitcoin and it seems like you know those are just starting to

508
00:42:12,661 --> 00:42:18,001
to pop up more and more and more um because the average person is just being a little bit

509
00:42:18,001 --> 00:42:23,981
uh i guess let's call it like frivolous or you know a little like uh a little dangerous with

510
00:42:23,981 --> 00:42:31,161
their uh their overall uh stack so yeah i mean definitely is a worry and having something like

511
00:42:31,161 --> 00:42:35,341
this would would definitely help me at least personally sleep a little bit better at night

512
00:42:35,341 --> 00:42:42,021
for sure exactly it helps me sleep much better at night um it's been a scary you know 12 years

513
00:42:42,021 --> 00:42:47,541
in the space in the beginning it was you know a couple hundred bucks and who knew where it was

514
00:42:47,541 --> 00:42:52,821
going to go people thought i was a psychopath telling them to buy bitcoin in 2013 and 14 15

515
00:42:52,821 --> 00:42:59,941
and 16 but then 2017 bitcoin you know went from a thousand twenty thousand 2018 the ico bubble popped

516
00:43:01,141 --> 00:43:06,261
and then 2020 covid was really good for for bitcoin with microstrategy and tesla buying

517
00:43:06,261 --> 00:43:08,761
and everyone getting involved.

518
00:43:09,081 --> 00:43:14,741
And obviously FTX was the straw that broke the camel's back in 2022

519
00:43:14,741 --> 00:43:17,801
and caused that bear market.

520
00:43:18,421 --> 00:43:22,601
But man, BlackRock saved the day, in my opinion.

521
00:43:23,361 --> 00:43:26,381
BlackRock in 2023 filed for the Bitcoin ETF,

522
00:43:26,521 --> 00:43:28,301
spot Bitcoin ETF, out of nowhere.

523
00:43:28,301 --> 00:43:32,861
I mean, two months after, three months after Elizabeth Warren

524
00:43:32,861 --> 00:43:38,281
and that posse did Operation Chokepoint 2.5

525
00:43:38,281 --> 00:43:41,361
and tried to shut out all the crypto companies in the US

526
00:43:41,361 --> 00:43:42,241
from the banking system.

527
00:43:43,141 --> 00:43:44,601
And it was one of the darkest days

528
00:43:44,601 --> 00:43:46,001
for anyone in the crypto space

529
00:43:46,001 --> 00:43:48,321
because you had these crypto assets

530
00:43:48,321 --> 00:43:49,461
that you couldn't monetize,

531
00:43:49,501 --> 00:43:51,341
you couldn't sell if you needed cash instantly,

532
00:43:51,661 --> 00:43:52,741
whereas previously you could.

533
00:43:53,741 --> 00:43:54,921
And while it was short-lived,

534
00:43:55,481 --> 00:43:58,321
for BlackRock to come a couple months later

535
00:43:58,321 --> 00:44:00,461
and save the day by falling for that spot Bitcoin ETF

536
00:44:00,461 --> 00:44:03,081
and then having it go live in January of 24

537
00:44:03,081 --> 00:44:04,941
and then some getting elected.

538
00:44:05,181 --> 00:44:09,121
And like, here we are, $112,000 down from 125-ish.

539
00:44:09,701 --> 00:44:12,101
I mean, man, it's been quite the journey.

540
00:44:12,621 --> 00:44:14,641
Why would you ever hold generational wealth

541
00:44:14,641 --> 00:44:15,701
on a piece of paper?

542
00:44:16,101 --> 00:44:17,081
It doesn't make sense.

543
00:44:17,341 --> 00:44:20,861
You need a foolproof solution and I've got it for you.

544
00:44:21,021 --> 00:44:23,181
You could get this as low as $25.

545
00:44:23,681 --> 00:44:25,141
And if you use promo code GREENCANDLE,

546
00:44:25,141 --> 00:44:28,661
you could get 10% off being around for 12 years.

547
00:44:28,661 --> 00:44:32,761
They've engineered the perfect and most easy to use solution.

548
00:44:33,261 --> 00:44:36,581
I've partnered with CryptoSteel to offer for you guys just that.

549
00:44:36,881 --> 00:44:40,741
It is the cheapest and most secure way to store your C-phrase.

550
00:44:41,021 --> 00:44:46,901
I don't know about you guys, but I don't have too many things where I think one ton is going to fall on this,

551
00:44:47,001 --> 00:44:49,401
but it could survive all of that and more.

552
00:44:50,081 --> 00:44:52,621
So go to CryptoSteel.com.

553
00:44:52,701 --> 00:44:54,501
You can use promo code GREENCANDLE.

554
00:44:54,501 --> 00:44:59,341
You can get 10% off your entire order if you go there today.

555
00:44:59,781 --> 00:45:04,601
So go ahead and protect your generational wealth and do it with crypto steel.

556
00:45:04,981 --> 00:45:06,321
All right, enough from me.

557
00:45:06,421 --> 00:45:07,301
Back to the show.

558
00:45:07,721 --> 00:45:09,861
And I will say this.

559
00:45:09,961 --> 00:45:16,121
In 2013, when I first got involved and in 2014, when I launched a crypto fund and I was super,

560
00:45:16,121 --> 00:45:25,021
you know high level conviction that crypto was the next huge you know internet um asset that was

561
00:45:25,021 --> 00:45:32,241
super important and was so under adopted it was a time back then where things went viral quickly

562
00:45:32,241 --> 00:45:38,221
on the internet videos youtube videos whatever and i thought like oh this is digital internet

563
00:45:38,221 --> 00:45:44,081
money like it's going to go viral it'll be adopted like that well i thought it would have been

564
00:45:44,081 --> 00:45:47,701
more mass adopted in a quicker time frame than it has been.

565
00:45:48,761 --> 00:45:52,321
And I kept for years, I'd say, oh, we're in the second or third inning,

566
00:45:52,521 --> 00:45:55,181
to use a baseball analogy in Bitcoin's life cycle.

567
00:45:55,941 --> 00:45:57,101
And I was wrong.

568
00:45:57,361 --> 00:46:00,061
Like we were, the first inning was a long first inning.

569
00:46:00,981 --> 00:46:04,701
I mean, I would say that right now,

570
00:46:05,181 --> 00:46:12,461
I would say the biggest macro like zoom out cycles were like 2009,

571
00:46:12,461 --> 00:46:18,621
the first Bitcoin was mined up till 2013 when it peaked at 1200.

572
00:46:18,921 --> 00:46:20,521
That was like the top of the first inning.

573
00:46:20,961 --> 00:46:25,341
And then there was bear market after that until 2017 when the second inning

574
00:46:25,341 --> 00:46:25,761
started.

575
00:46:26,961 --> 00:46:31,721
And 2017 Bitcoin went from a thousand to 20,000 ICOs and altcoins.

576
00:46:32,201 --> 00:46:34,041
That was the second inning.

577
00:46:34,241 --> 00:46:37,841
And then the ICO bubble popped the bottom of the second inning.

578
00:46:37,841 --> 00:46:42,021
And then COVID was the top of the third inning.

579
00:46:42,461 --> 00:46:46,361
And it ended with FTX.

580
00:46:46,361 --> 00:46:49,581
And that started the bottom of the third inning with that bear market.

581
00:46:49,581 --> 00:47:11,272
And then BlackRock started the top of the fourth inning And we still in the top of the fourth inning to use this baseball analogy on where we are in Bitcoin life cycle I would have thought if you asked me in 2013 or 14 what inning we be in in 2025 I would have said probably the sixth inning

582
00:47:11,412 --> 00:47:11,732
I don't know.

583
00:47:12,232 --> 00:47:17,272
But slower adoption than I thought, but it's still on this up and to the right trajectory.

584
00:47:18,992 --> 00:47:21,392
And it's been a fascinating adventure.

585
00:47:22,032 --> 00:47:30,452
Yeah, it's interesting that you say it like that because majority of people when I talk about this to them who have been in this space for a while always say, oh, it's happening a lot faster.

586
00:47:31,012 --> 00:47:33,612
But it's interesting that you're like, hey, you know what?

587
00:47:33,652 --> 00:47:34,412
It was on the internet.

588
00:47:34,592 --> 00:47:36,092
Internet videos go viral.

589
00:47:36,312 --> 00:47:49,732
This thing should go viral, which is I think I feel like a lot of the pain of the Bitcoiners now who start to feel this, hey, why aren't we at $250,000 or whatever it is right now, right this second?

590
00:47:49,732 --> 00:47:54,252
And why we see all this buying coming in and, you know, all of this buy pressure.

591
00:47:54,252 --> 00:47:59,592
And, you know, now the, you know, the policies are becoming more friendly, all this and that.

592
00:48:00,292 --> 00:48:10,872
And we still aren't getting the run ups that we, you know, maybe are accustomed to from the older cycles or that, you know, maybe some of these guys haven't even seen before.

593
00:48:10,872 --> 00:48:18,492
So, you know, with that, right, I mean, I know you think the adoption maybe should have been a little bit quicker.

594
00:48:18,492 --> 00:48:31,052
But when you were first getting into it, were you kind of thinking of it as, hey, this is going to end banking systems, going to revitalize and change all of the traditional financial system?

595
00:48:31,312 --> 00:48:33,492
Or were you just kind of like, hey, you know what?

596
00:48:33,532 --> 00:48:34,832
This is a fixed asset.

597
00:48:35,052 --> 00:48:35,812
It's a supply.

598
00:48:36,152 --> 00:48:37,672
Number go up is going to be nice.

599
00:48:37,792 --> 00:48:39,232
And all I got to do is hold on.

600
00:48:39,372 --> 00:48:42,912
How did you come at it when you were first learning about Bitcoin?

601
00:48:43,752 --> 00:48:47,252
I always thought it was digital gold.

602
00:48:47,252 --> 00:48:51,312
And even today, I still use that digital gold analogy.

603
00:48:52,872 --> 00:49:03,032
It can be a currency that you spend Bitcoin on things if, you know, side change, a lightning network really develop and catch on.

604
00:49:04,252 --> 00:49:16,692
I think that what Bitcoin represents is this granite layer foundation of the most decentralized digital asset out there.

605
00:49:17,252 --> 00:49:26,492
It's slow compared to Visa's payments and Solana's TPS, but it doesn't need to be fast

606
00:49:26,492 --> 00:49:28,992
because it works and it's decentralized.

607
00:49:30,152 --> 00:49:31,112
It's immutable.

608
00:49:31,692 --> 00:49:32,612
It has all these features.

609
00:49:33,732 --> 00:49:39,972
And while people like to say gold has value because it's tangible and you can see it and

610
00:49:39,972 --> 00:49:45,812
melt it and use it, I actually think that a lot of what people have historically referred

611
00:49:45,812 --> 00:49:50,132
features of gold are actually bugs because it's heavy.

612
00:49:50,572 --> 00:49:52,492
That's not a good thing. You can touch it.

613
00:49:53,432 --> 00:49:56,432
You don't need to touch anything anymore. Everything's cashless these days.

614
00:49:57,192 --> 00:49:59,572
The fact that Bitcoin you can't touch, that it's digital,

615
00:49:59,772 --> 00:50:03,612
that it moves at tech speed, speed of light or whatever,

616
00:50:04,212 --> 00:50:05,052
those are all features.

617
00:50:06,812 --> 00:50:13,512
And so I think that you take that frame of mind and you also,

618
00:50:13,512 --> 00:50:15,472
like I said, I have two young kids.

619
00:50:15,812 --> 00:50:19,452
They are as tech savvy as a two and a four-year-old can be.

620
00:50:19,652 --> 00:50:23,252
I mean, they take my phone, they open it up, they use different apps.

621
00:50:23,372 --> 00:50:24,292
They have iPads.

622
00:50:24,472 --> 00:50:30,632
They can scroll between apps and videos and games and turn it on and volume up.

623
00:50:30,632 --> 00:50:36,332
I mean, two years old, using a touchscreen $1,000 piece of technology.

624
00:50:37,112 --> 00:50:40,992
Everything to them as they grow up and that generation grows up is going to be digital.

625
00:50:40,992 --> 00:50:52,132
Why will heavy metal gold, physical clunky gold, or any tangible rock have value to that generation and future generations beyond them?

626
00:50:52,592 --> 00:50:57,932
I think everything is going digital and that Bitcoin is setting the standard for digital gold.

627
00:50:59,552 --> 00:51:09,932
And therefore, I'm a proponent of that analogy where it doesn't need to be the fastest thing.

628
00:51:10,992 --> 00:51:29,832
It needs to work and do what it does well, which is have zero downtime and be able to be accessible in self-custody, in third-party custody, on a hot wallet, on a web wallet, on a cold wallet, on exchange, on your phone, on your computer.

629
00:51:29,832 --> 00:51:31,192
And it does all that.

630
00:51:31,192 --> 00:51:42,232
And therefore, the adoption, I think, is going to continue to increase as more and more people globally, there's eight plus billion people on the planet.

631
00:51:43,512 --> 00:51:49,152
Many of them have access to the internet via smartphones or computers.

632
00:51:50,012 --> 00:51:52,512
All you need is a device to access Bitcoin.

633
00:51:52,812 --> 00:51:55,252
You can't get banked, but you can get Bitcoin.

634
00:51:55,252 --> 00:52:03,192
And I think the one thing that always annoys me is still to this day is when people say, oh, Bitcoin is too expensive.

635
00:52:03,412 --> 00:52:04,232
I can't afford it.

636
00:52:04,432 --> 00:52:07,592
I'd rather buy Litecoin or Solana.

637
00:52:07,952 --> 00:52:10,032
And I'm like, you really don't get it, man.

638
00:52:10,112 --> 00:52:11,512
You could buy a fraction of a Bitcoin.

639
00:52:11,732 --> 00:52:12,952
It goes out to eight decimals.

640
00:52:13,732 --> 00:52:20,052
Like, you just got to put a dollar amount into Bitcoin and it fractionalizes to whatever you need.

641
00:52:20,452 --> 00:52:22,652
And if it doubles, then your dollar amount doubles.

642
00:52:22,652 --> 00:52:27,112
I mean, for you to feel priced out of Bitcoin, you don't have to have a full Bitcoin.

643
00:52:28,012 --> 00:52:31,952
Most people obviously will not have a full Bitcoin 50 years from now.

644
00:52:32,572 --> 00:52:35,192
You just need a fraction of a Bitcoin to be in the system.

645
00:52:36,952 --> 00:52:50,992
Yeah, and one of my favorite statistics that I love to tell people when they come at me from that perspective is that if you look around globally, at least maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, $1 million was a lot of money.

646
00:52:50,992 --> 00:52:54,952
But if you look around globally, there's 59 million millionaires.

647
00:52:55,512 --> 00:53:00,192
Now, because Bitcoin is like a public ledger, you can see all the wallets, how much they're holding.

648
00:53:00,712 --> 00:53:09,912
There's only 13 million wallets with 1 million sats or more, which is $1,100 basically around the time of this recording in Bitcoin.

649
00:53:10,472 --> 00:53:16,412
So you can be in a class more exclusive than millionaires for just buying $1,100 worth of Bitcoin.

650
00:53:16,412 --> 00:53:21,992
And there's very few other assets out there that you can buy this amount.

651
00:53:22,272 --> 00:53:26,792
But what you're saying, the comparisons to gold, I really resonate with too.

652
00:53:27,032 --> 00:53:30,812
Because granted, I don't have the kids, like I said a little bit earlier.

653
00:53:31,112 --> 00:53:36,252
But we have places now that a lot of places just don't even accept cash.

654
00:53:36,412 --> 00:53:38,432
They're strictly just cashless.

655
00:53:39,112 --> 00:53:43,892
And so to think that we're not going this direction is crazy.

656
00:53:43,892 --> 00:54:01,892
And, you know, I don't know how many times I've walked in recently and I've seen somebody try to pay in cash and they either get rejected or they don't have change for them, you know, because they're just like people are just not carrying it and getting away from, you know, that paper and the physical aspect of money.

657
00:54:01,892 --> 00:54:08,212
this bull run i'm looking for ways to stack bitcoin in my sleep and mining has always caught

658
00:54:08,212 --> 00:54:14,972
my eye i've partnered with the guys over at simple mining to help you do just that i don't recommend

659
00:54:14,972 --> 00:54:20,172
anything that i don't use personally so i've got a machine up and running with them right this

660
00:54:20,172 --> 00:54:27,412
second and they've even opened the facility up so anyone can go and visit they manage over 15 000

661
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662
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663
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664
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665
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potential tax benefits that you can get from mining with Simple Mining. All right, enough

666
00:54:54,172 --> 00:55:00,172
from me. Let's get back to the show. But I think the development in the Bitcoin space is very unique.

667
00:55:00,652 --> 00:55:08,672
Now, we've been talking about the individual Bitcoin corporations, these kind of things, but

668
00:55:08,672 --> 00:55:15,152
there's some other things on the horizon when it comes to the overall policies. The Bitcoin

669
00:55:15,152 --> 00:55:20,872
strategic reserve is obviously a hot button topic. And we start to see some of these other sovereign

670
00:55:20,872 --> 00:55:27,272
wealth funds and all these other big nation states start to talk about Bitcoin. Now, obviously,

671
00:55:27,412 --> 00:55:33,212
Bitcoin is going to do what Bitcoin does. But I know you said you were a little, I guess,

672
00:55:33,252 --> 00:55:39,352
surprised on how slow it's moving. But from like a nation state perspective, do you think this stuff

673
00:55:39,352 --> 00:55:43,672
is going to start to, I guess, accelerate the adoption? Or do you think like, you know, when

674
00:55:43,672 --> 00:55:48,772
we get into more of this nation state adoption, it's just going to be slower because, you know,

675
00:55:48,772 --> 00:55:51,632
governments just move like snails these days.

676
00:55:52,892 --> 00:55:54,152
Yeah, that's a good point.

677
00:55:54,252 --> 00:55:59,192
I was in Jackson Hole, Wyoming last week for the Wyoming Blockchain Symposium.

678
00:56:00,192 --> 00:56:04,312
And I saw Eric Trump on a panel.

679
00:56:05,092 --> 00:56:09,592
You know, he's behind American Bitcoin, the miner, the Bitcoin mining company in Texas

680
00:56:09,592 --> 00:56:11,592
with, you know, the hot eight guys.

681
00:56:11,592 --> 00:56:20,412
and he said that a sovereign wealth fund that remains nameless quietly bought 200,000 Bitcoin

682
00:56:20,412 --> 00:56:22,972
and nobody was talking about and nobody knew about.

683
00:56:23,792 --> 00:56:27,632
And we could probably guess using game theory, which, you know,

684
00:56:27,892 --> 00:56:32,032
down to like three or five sovereign wealth funds that could afford that and did that.

685
00:56:33,632 --> 00:56:37,052
But that adoption is continuing.

686
00:56:37,052 --> 00:56:48,252
And I think that there's going to be a race for Bitcoin amongst nation states because they can afford it.

687
00:56:49,172 --> 00:56:56,772
And if they believe that it's going to be an important asset to own, they'd rather buy it today than at a future price much higher.

688
00:56:58,252 --> 00:56:59,432
What are the numbers?

689
00:56:59,432 --> 00:57:05,172
Is it, maybe you have it in front of you, but I think the US has 200,000 Bitcoin.

690
00:57:05,732 --> 00:57:07,652
China has 190,000 Bitcoin.

691
00:57:09,032 --> 00:57:11,892
You know, it's 200,000 is this magic number.

692
00:57:12,012 --> 00:57:15,072
MicroStrategy is 600 plus thousand Bitcoin, but they're a corporation.

693
00:57:15,832 --> 00:57:23,232
But from a nation state perspective, 200,000 seems to be like the big behemoths who are

694
00:57:23,232 --> 00:57:24,252
owning Bitcoin.

695
00:57:24,252 --> 00:57:31,312
That being said, I want to say I heard a rumor that Biden sold a lot of Bitcoin before he left office.

696
00:57:31,472 --> 00:57:34,432
And so we have less than 200,000 Bitcoin, which was previously thought.

697
00:57:34,572 --> 00:57:35,292
I don't know.

698
00:57:35,612 --> 00:57:36,732
Maybe you have more info on that.

699
00:57:37,252 --> 00:57:37,472
Yeah.

700
00:57:37,652 --> 00:57:40,752
So, I mean, it's a lot of like mixed reports on that.

701
00:57:40,932 --> 00:57:42,372
So we did sell a little bit.

702
00:57:42,632 --> 00:57:44,812
I think we had a little bit over 200,000.

703
00:57:45,252 --> 00:57:50,252
But right now we have like 198,021, allegedly, the US.

704
00:57:50,392 --> 00:57:52,712
And then China has 190,000.

705
00:57:52,712 --> 00:57:58,092
And then the next step after that is the UK who has 61,000 all seized Bitcoin.

706
00:57:58,692 --> 00:58:04,792
So, I mean, it is this interesting game theory because we have seen countries sell off their Bitcoin.

707
00:58:05,032 --> 00:58:08,752
I mean, we had Germany sell off all of their holdings.

708
00:58:08,872 --> 00:58:12,372
We had Bulgaria sell off all of their holdings as well.

709
00:58:12,912 --> 00:58:17,172
But obviously, you know, as these things kind of come along, you always see the tweets.

710
00:58:17,512 --> 00:58:22,192
If Germany would have held on to their Bitcoin, it'd be worth this much right now, you know,

711
00:58:22,192 --> 00:58:24,192
Yeah, what a cut of sugar.

712
00:58:24,712 --> 00:58:25,512
Yeah, exactly.

713
00:58:26,152 --> 00:58:28,792
You can't look back and rue decisions.

714
00:58:30,692 --> 00:58:35,812
I have a saying I live by, which is decisions, not results.

715
00:58:36,432 --> 00:58:37,672
Keep making good decisions.

716
00:58:37,992 --> 00:58:38,932
Don't worry about the results.

717
00:58:39,192 --> 00:58:42,052
If you continue to make good decisions, the results will follow.

718
00:58:42,532 --> 00:58:50,812
But yeah, when you sell Bitcoin, you always hate not having more Bitcoin because it keeps going up to the right.

719
00:58:52,192 --> 00:59:03,292
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I think that that's going to continue going here. And I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, by the end of this year, especially when we get like fire or get some of these interest rate cuts coming.

720
00:59:03,292 --> 00:59:06,372
and the development of more of these companies

721
00:59:06,372 --> 00:59:08,572
that we start to see some potential fireworks here.

722
00:59:08,732 --> 00:59:11,332
But Jason, you've been very generous with your time

723
00:59:11,332 --> 00:59:14,072
and you've been a great guest coming on

724
00:59:14,072 --> 00:59:17,952
explaining some of the ways that the individual

725
00:59:17,952 --> 00:59:21,192
can use the sailor quote unquote infinite money glitch

726
00:59:21,192 --> 00:59:22,412
to obtain more Bitcoin.

727
00:59:22,572 --> 00:59:24,552
Why don't you tell people where they can find out

728
00:59:24,552 --> 00:59:26,592
more about you and more about Meanwhile

729
00:59:26,592 --> 00:59:29,392
and potentially sign up for a policy

730
00:59:29,392 --> 00:59:31,212
or at least get screened to see

731
00:59:31,212 --> 00:59:34,852
meet the health requirements and everything for a policy.

732
00:59:34,852 --> 00:59:41,692
Yeah. No, no, I appreciate it. Visit our website, meanwhile.bm. BM as in Bermuda,

733
00:59:41,932 --> 00:59:47,772
since we're a Bermuda-based life insurance carrier. You could find me on the website,

734
00:59:47,772 --> 00:59:53,512
or you can email me directly, jason at meanwhile.bm. I'd be happy to talk to anyone who wants

735
00:59:53,512 --> 01:00:00,792
to learn more about our company, our background, how our product works, the benefits, who it's for,

736
01:00:01,212 --> 01:00:02,752
And you can sign up directly on our website.

737
01:00:03,392 --> 01:00:04,432
It's very easy.

738
01:00:04,632 --> 01:00:05,432
Everything's online.

739
01:00:05,812 --> 01:00:06,592
Everything's automated.

740
01:00:08,052 --> 01:00:10,392
In the US and Canada, you sign up.

741
01:00:11,032 --> 01:00:12,872
You don't have to visit a doctor.

742
01:00:13,372 --> 01:00:18,132
You don't have to pee in a cup or submit blood samples, get a blood test.

743
01:00:18,492 --> 01:00:19,272
Everything's online.

744
01:00:19,632 --> 01:00:23,872
So we make that part of getting a life insurance policy much easier.

745
01:00:23,872 --> 01:00:26,912
from the day you apply

746
01:00:26,912 --> 01:00:28,412
to if you're healthy

747
01:00:28,412 --> 01:00:29,452
to the day you get approved

748
01:00:29,452 --> 01:00:30,472
and send in your first

749
01:00:30,472 --> 01:00:31,472
Bitcoin premium payment

750
01:00:31,472 --> 01:00:33,892
can be as little as four business days.

751
01:00:34,852 --> 01:00:36,432
Life insurance probably takes

752
01:00:36,432 --> 01:00:38,532
closer to a month traditionally,

753
01:00:38,872 --> 01:00:40,472
but we've cut that down by a lot.

754
01:00:40,692 --> 01:00:43,112
So go online, check us out, apply,

755
01:00:43,832 --> 01:00:45,972
reach out to me if you need any help.

756
01:00:46,772 --> 01:00:48,872
And yeah, no, it's been a pleasure, man.

757
01:00:49,032 --> 01:00:50,932
Really, always good talking to you.

758
01:00:51,972 --> 01:00:52,952
And I hope to see you soon.

759
01:00:52,952 --> 01:01:11,852
Yeah, man, 100%. And I forgot to ask real quick, I mean, you mentioned it in the US, but is this available to everywhere? Like, can you kind of go through a little bit of the areas that, you know, some of the listeners maybe be listening to are listening to this conversation where it is accessible and where it might not be just yet?

760
01:01:11,852 --> 01:01:37,252
Yeah, but we are primarily in the US and Canada right now. That being said, we have raised money to go global. UK, Hong Kong, I mean, we're going to go everywhere. But the difficulty is the health underwriting component is we have a very conservative way of approving individuals for a policy.

761
01:01:37,252 --> 01:01:43,712
and in other countries outside the u.s it's a lot harder to get their medical records

762
01:01:43,712 --> 01:01:51,072
to make sure that they are healthy and so as we figure that out country by country

763
01:01:51,072 --> 01:01:59,012
we will keep it expanding but eventually we'll be everywhere all right well be sure to put all

764
01:01:59,012 --> 01:02:04,372
those details in the show notes you guys should be be rushing to check out meanwhile and see how

765
01:02:04,372 --> 01:02:06,812
you can get your hands on one of these policies.

766
01:02:07,212 --> 01:02:08,772
And Jason, thanks so much.

767
01:02:09,572 --> 01:02:10,512
Thanks, man. Talk soon.

768
01:02:10,632 --> 01:02:13,032
Thank you guys all for tuning in to another great episode

769
01:02:13,032 --> 01:02:15,072
of the State of Bitcoin podcast.

770
01:02:15,452 --> 01:02:16,712
If you found some value in this one,

771
01:02:16,812 --> 01:02:19,412
please hit that subscribe button and that like button

772
01:02:19,412 --> 01:02:20,832
to help send this one to the masses.

773
01:02:21,032 --> 01:02:22,332
And I've got a surprise for you guys.

774
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I've got two more episodes that you have the chance to watch here.

775
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So go ahead and click one of them,

776
01:02:27,112 --> 01:02:28,712
and I'll see you guys all at the next one.

777
01:02:34,372 --> 01:03:04,352
Thank you.