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Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.

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This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can

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around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean

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for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so

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much for listening. Hello everybody, welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten Podcast.

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A couple of weeks ago I asked on NOSTA and Twitter if people could start linking me to

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explainer videos or articles or essays or any educational content that they have been looking

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at and finding and sharing about the current issue in the Bitcoin space which is all centered around

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BIP 110. Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 110. So I've spent the last couple of weeks digging in,

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reading what I can, watching what I can, sharing as well along the journey, and one name kept

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coming up, and it's somebody I'd never heard of. Very underfollowed on Twitter. His name is

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Rono Cuny. He is coming from a telecoms background over 25 years in his career. He is also

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the creator of thebitcoinportal.com, which is one of the best dashboards out there that nobody's

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looking at. It is incredible. Go and just look at that. If you want to stop this now and just check

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out thebitcoinportal.com, there is so much information on there. And then his weekly

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substack, BlockSpace Weekly. The links will be in the show notes. And he had written up to the

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point when I started reading his work he'd written a 10-part series on BIP110 and was taking you

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through the history of it, the dynamics of it, the analysis which is more important, the analysis of

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it and then in issue number five he ran a he shared the results of a simulation he's running.

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So he's running a simulation of what the world would look like in the Bitcoin space if BIP110

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were activated and the results were very interesting.

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And then he came back in issue number eight

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and updated that and made some corrections as well.

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But you can follow all of that as well

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on thebitcoinportal.com.

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So I love the fact that Renault has come out of nowhere

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with regards to myself, never heard of him before.

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He's been in the space for the last three years.

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So this is all he's known, spam world, right?

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He doesn't come with, and this is a thing

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that you gotta be very, very careful of

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because people are out there throwing shade at people that are coming to this argument or debate

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and telling them you haven't been around for 15 years, you weren't around for the four cores,

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therefore your opinion doesn't matter.

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That is complete and utter total fucking bullshit and completely anti-Bitcoin.

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I just want to lay that line down right now.

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Bitcoin is for everyone. It is an open, permissionless protocol.

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And if you've got something to bring to this space, bring it.

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and then put your ideas forward

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so people can start reading them and discussing them.

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So please don't listen to that narrative

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that's being thrown around out there.

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It's just complete and utter nonsense.

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Take note of the people that are using that narrative.

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Take very close note and just watch.

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Anyway, I hope you enjoy this interview with Rono.

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This is his first ever podcast.

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So yes, he was a little nervous.

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And yes, we did have an internet dropout halfway through.

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and then yes I did forget to press record for the last 10 minutes so we had to do it all again

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so it's a baptism of fire for Renaud in many different ways

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I am just very thankful that he has given up the time to come on the podcast

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and has written this incredible series with deep dive analytics

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and will continue to write as well because this is something that has completely gripped him intellectually

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and he is 100% down to carry on with this research

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So sit back and relax and enjoy this podcast with Renault.

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Before we get into it, one quick shout out, obviously, for the sponsors.

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Relay have been sponsoring the show for almost five years.

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R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash Bitten.

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They are an app, an exchange across Europe that you can download and start buying Bitcoin from today.

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They do have a wallet in built, so you will self-custody your Bitcoin within the app.

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They also work very closely with Bitbox, bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten.

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Another very long-standing supporter of the show.

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Again, around the same time, five years.

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Both companies based out of Switzerland.

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Both teams know each other very, very well, work very closely together, are Bitcoin only,

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have the same ethos, and want you to take self-custody of your Bitcoin.

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Bitbox offer you the Bitbox O2 or the Bitbox Nova.

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They are both Bitcoin-only hardware wallets.

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If you are not taking self-custody of your Bitcoin, you have no control over it.

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Somebody else has the keys to your car and they can just drive it off the driveway whenever they want.

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If you have the keys to your Bitcoin, you're the only one that can move it.

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So please take that very seriously.

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Go check out Club Orange.

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They're rebranded from Orange Pill app.

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Find your local meetups, find your conferences,

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or get to a conference this year.

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You've got Dublin in May.

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You've got Prague in June.

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You've got Helsinki in September.

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You've got many more, but those ones in particular.

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Use the code BITTERN and you'll get 10% discount.

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Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy this episode with Runo.

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All right, Runo, we are recording.

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It's great to meet you.

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Thanks for having me, Daniel.

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And great to see for what is to me a new voice in the Bitcoin space, because I love it when this happens.

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I just put out a tweet and actually I think this happened on Noster.

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I put out a post and I think can anyone just send me some essays, articles, video explainers, anything that you're coming across about BIP 110 so I can start digging in, please.

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um that was where met with a fair amount of abuse in in one channel but uh a lot of really

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interesting articles started come across my feed and they were all being written by you

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and then i'm like well who the hell's like reno cuny and i find you find you more on twitter where

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you're more active over there then i find your website bitcoin portal which is incredible we've

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got to talk about that what you've built there if people have never seen the bitcoin portal stop

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now go go over and see bitcoinportal.com and then you have your substack and at time of recording

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i think you've released an 11 part series about bit 110 and you've got number 12 up your sleeve

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yes yes right okay and this has been very interesting for me to read because you are

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coming at it from obviously there's so much emotion built up around this whole thing but

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the way you're coming at it is with the data analysis that you are pulling from the dashboard

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that you built in the first place and using all of that data to get readers like myself

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up to speed. So that's why I wanted you to have your moment here to come on a podcast. I believe

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it's your first podcast. Might be the first time anyone's ever heard of you. Might be the first

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time anyone's seen your website. Might be the first time anyone goes and reads your articles.

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i'm not claiming like this is a scoop but i want people to understand that there are other voices

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out there and they shouldn't just be waved away because they haven't been around since 2016 bro

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like all of this narrative that's being pushed our way you've got something to say and it's very

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very interesting but before we get into all of that like who's where no where did you come from

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what have you been doing for the last 25 30 years of your life yes yes thanks for swiping me on the

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Yeah, actually, I discovered Bitcoin quite recently.

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So in 2023, second half.

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And it was after listening for a video from Matthew Crater.

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So first I was browsing through on YouTube and I found that one

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and I thought, okay, again, some Bitcoin stuff.

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And I start to listen and then at some point in the video,

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it starts to click.

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for me. And next day I was buying some Bitcoin. So I'm a recent in Bitcoin, but my background is in telecom.

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So I've been working telecom for 25 years plus, actually. I started in Finland, in Nokia, in the beginning of 2000, you know.

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And yeah, so doing some research, doing some solution architecture work for telecom networks.

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And also some product management.

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So I've been a product manager for 15 years in the telecom business in various companies.

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So I went in Nokia, but also in small companies, some startups.

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And more recently, I'm fully focused on Bitcoin.

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So this is now, I think it's the most important project,

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you know, a software project in the world.

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So I want to be part of that, basically.

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Yeah.

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So are you still doing your 9 to 5 job, so to speak?

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No, I don't.

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I don't because due to some reorg, you know, in my company,

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I kind of had to look for something else, right?

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So, yeah.

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So here I am full time on Bitcoin.

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It their loss and our gains sir Unbelievable Right So the Bitcoin portal the bitcoinportal what what made you start like building that because when i was digging through that there layers and layers

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and layers of information so clearly you're pulling on your past skill set of data analysis

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and pulling all of that in so why what what was the driving force behind that yeah good question

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And so, you know, it's both for me some hobby, right?

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But also I kind of realized that there are some parts

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that are not fully addressed in the monitoring space

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of the Bitcoin network.

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So while you have kind of a lot of sites

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that are providing you information about the data

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and the price of Bitcoin.

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There are not so many that are actually splitting

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what's inside the block, right?

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And I thought, okay, now it's a good time for me

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to actually bring that,

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especially with the debate on the spam, right,

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that we have at the moment.

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So what is the part of the Bitcoin blocks

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that are actually having spam

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and those that are, you know, the part that are more financial transactions.

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So I thought this was missing.

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I wanted to put it up and share it, you know.

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So I'm sharing that information.

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And I started about a year ago on this portal.

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So, yeah.

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And I kept adding new layers.

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So on that specific topic, because of your timing coming into the space,

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This is something that has always been a factor, right?

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Because what the fuck happened in February, 2023?

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Like that's when all of this spam really started kicking off and has culminated now into three

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years of shit throwing and arguing and not getting anywhere and culminating in this latest

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BIP.

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So when that's an interesting angle, because you come at it, this is already happening.

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You're looking at it.

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You're like, why isn't this being tracked?

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and you've even set up on your Twitter,

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you have an alert that tweets out alerts

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of the amount of spam that is still getting into the blogs,

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which people aren't really paying much attention to.

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Yes.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I think this is the thing that was missing

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really in this debate

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because we have had the new release

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of the Bitcoin Core V30

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and a huge debate on this sub return

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opening up the limit to 100 kilobytes.

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But the thing is, and there was some kind of explanation given,

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like, yes, you know, it's been always possible

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to put data in enough return, and this doesn't change much

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because it was always possible, right?

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Even the limit was only 83.

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But so that was the reason given,

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but then no data given. So people had no idea how much data was going to a preterm, actually,

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in the first place. And so I thought this was really a missing angle, and I wanted to bring that.

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And if you look at the data, you realize that, okay, in fact, there was really no

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So no large op return before last year, 2025, maybe starting in April, May.

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There was almost no large op return being mined.

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So it's kind of, you get those decisions made, but there is no data behind.

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So I wanted to bring that visibility and that angle.

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and yes I also have this

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alerts for

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X so when there is a

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lateral pre-turn popping up then you are

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kind of alerted on X

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so that's the idea

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yes. So when you started

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digging into the history of

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this what was the

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biggest red flag for you?

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Yeah

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so

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in fact it's really

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some kind of discovery

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journey, right? I'm looking at something, then something else is coming up. And I start to get

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the better picture, right? But if you look at the history, yes, before 2023, the blocks, they were

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mostly financial transaction. And then beginning of 2023, this spam coming up. And you see it,

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But on the portal, no, I just have one year data.

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So you cannot see it on the public portal

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because I had to restrict.

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It's a kind of a smaller machine.

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I will try to open more data there.

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But yeah, you see that for sure there

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is a lot of non-financial data now.

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And it's about, nowadays, it's about 40% of the used block space.

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So the block capacity is 4 megabytes per 10 minutes, you know.

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And at the moment, blocks, they are filled about 1.5 megabytes.

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And you have about a bit less than 1 megabyte of financial data.

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All the rest is spam.

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so uh all two percent yeah i think i remember 37 was the the figure that you'd um last updated in

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one of your articles because you you wrote uh you wrote an article i think it was issue number five

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then you came back and recalced everything and rerun the simulation and that was article number

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eight where you updated all of with a brilliant infographic as well so you've been running let's

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talk about that you've been running a simulation okay sure yes uh the simulation it's uh it's about

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the simulation of the BIP110.

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So the idea is to look at the blocks

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and derive what would be out of the block if BIP110 is activated.

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And yeah, you see that you are able to remove quite a lot,

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quite a bit from the spam.

231
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And not everything can be removed,

232
00:17:11,626 --> 00:17:17,386
because there are still a lot of those so-called runes

233
00:17:17,386 --> 00:17:23,206
that are fit within the op return that are below 83 bytes,

234
00:17:23,206 --> 00:17:25,486
so are about.

235
00:17:25,486 --> 00:17:26,726
So you have plenty of those.

236
00:17:26,726 --> 00:17:31,366
So those would not be taken off by BIP 110.

237
00:17:31,366 --> 00:17:33,946
But all the rest, the large inscriptions

238
00:17:33,946 --> 00:17:38,366
and the bigger data, it's out.

239
00:17:38,366 --> 00:17:40,746
And that's really the beauty of BIP 110,

240
00:17:40,746 --> 00:17:45,706
is that it doesn't claim to remove all the spam.

241
00:17:45,706 --> 00:17:48,966
But what it does is that it actually at least

242
00:17:48,966 --> 00:17:52,406
limits the spam and especially the large files.

243
00:17:52,406 --> 00:17:56,646
So the large file, they are not able to make it anymore

244
00:17:56,646 --> 00:18:01,026
to the blockchain in one piece, in a single piece.

245
00:18:01,026 --> 00:18:04,466
There is always this possibility to split a large file

246
00:18:04,466 --> 00:18:06,706
in smaller pieces and then fit it.

247
00:18:06,706 --> 00:18:11,706
but then it's a different problem that is coming, right?

248
00:18:11,806 --> 00:18:15,626
So yeah, that's really the idea of the simulation

249
00:18:15,626 --> 00:18:18,186
is to understand the impact of BIP 110.

250
00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:21,766
Well, the impact is very significant.

251
00:18:22,406 --> 00:18:24,226
So a lot of spam will be removed

252
00:18:24,226 --> 00:18:27,026
after BIP 110 is activated.

253
00:18:27,746 --> 00:18:31,286
Yeah, and so I'll link the, obviously, your website here

254
00:18:31,286 --> 00:18:33,466
so people can go and read number eight

255
00:18:33,466 --> 00:18:35,366
and see the visual graphic.

256
00:18:35,366 --> 00:18:37,046
It's been tweeted around a lot, actually.

257
00:18:37,186 --> 00:18:37,646
I've seen it.

258
00:18:38,186 --> 00:18:39,666
Different people are picking up on this.

259
00:18:40,606 --> 00:18:47,206
But just so the simulation you ran for 10 days, over that 10-day period, there were 4.7 million transactions.

260
00:18:48,026 --> 00:18:54,526
You ran it between blocks 929,592 and 931,032.

261
00:18:54,526 --> 00:18:57,106
So 4.7 million transactions.

262
00:18:58,086 --> 00:19:05,086
And BIP110 eliminated all ordinal inscriptions and runes metadata attached to them.

263
00:19:05,366 --> 00:19:14,166
and the financial transactions were untouched correct yes i mean yeah that's the job the mic

264
00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:20,486
moment right yeah in fact i added a new feature in the portal so you can uh see it for yourself

265
00:19:21,846 --> 00:19:31,846
the the b.10 simulation page it's under uh on chain spam analysis and then you go to the and

266
00:19:31,846 --> 00:19:40,886
this one is is giving you the latest 144 blocks so um so we can see in real time how things would

267
00:19:41,606 --> 00:19:46,966
yeah i'm on it now i'm on it now all right okay so yeah people can go to the bitcoinportal.com

268
00:19:46,966 --> 00:19:55,126
then just hit the on chain tab and then hit the uh analysis uh bit 110 simulator and yeah i've got

269
00:19:55,126 --> 00:20:02,086
you can choose your block range, either 10, 50, 144. I've got it sent to 144. Transactions filtered

270
00:20:02,086 --> 00:20:20,086
82,631. Block space reclaimed 71.62 megabytes, which is 33.5%. Fees that would be lost 0.0542

271
00:20:20,086 --> 00:20:26,646
bitcoin that's the minor revenue impact uh so like we said you've analyzed 144 blocks there and this

272
00:20:26,646 --> 00:20:32,966
is just running right that you people can go on you say it's already latest block so you see the

273
00:20:32,966 --> 00:20:41,046
real time here uh situation how things would look like this is uh so filtered by category you've

274
00:20:41,046 --> 00:20:44,386
You've got this, the category inscriptions,

275
00:20:44,386 --> 00:20:55,112
82 inscriptions would have been filtered and large op return 56 So what would you count as large

276
00:20:55,772 --> 00:20:56,992
What's the metric?

277
00:20:56,992 --> 00:20:58,952
I have a threshold here.

278
00:20:59,252 --> 00:21:02,992
I believe it's one kilobytes or something.

279
00:21:03,112 --> 00:21:03,772
Or it could be three.

280
00:21:03,912 --> 00:21:08,312
But anyway, it's way above this 83 bytes.

281
00:21:08,912 --> 00:21:11,992
But it can be a few kilobytes.

282
00:21:12,852 --> 00:21:13,772
It can be, yeah.

283
00:21:14,972 --> 00:21:19,172
What kind of data is that for people that are wondering?

284
00:21:19,552 --> 00:21:22,412
What is going in?

285
00:21:22,812 --> 00:21:27,112
So the inscriptions could be anything, text-related or whatever,

286
00:21:27,252 --> 00:21:28,692
but what about the large packets?

287
00:21:29,872 --> 00:21:31,832
Yeah, the large or pre-turn, I mean,

288
00:21:31,972 --> 00:21:34,492
the site doesn't dig into the content, right?

289
00:21:34,712 --> 00:21:37,052
Because it could be also quite risky.

290
00:21:38,232 --> 00:21:39,772
But I would say...

291
00:21:39,772 --> 00:21:42,652
Okay, so on that point, it could be quite risky.

292
00:21:42,652 --> 00:21:47,452
I don't want that to just fall over, wash over people.

293
00:21:48,412 --> 00:21:49,552
This is a point.

294
00:21:50,032 --> 00:21:54,112
And this is one of the arguments that's being made on either side,

295
00:21:54,292 --> 00:21:55,632
a very contentious point.

296
00:21:55,852 --> 00:21:58,332
But it's something you obviously deem important.

297
00:21:59,852 --> 00:22:03,412
Yes, it is important because, you know,

298
00:22:03,472 --> 00:22:08,952
the nature of Bitcoin is that anybody can send anything

299
00:22:08,952 --> 00:22:11,552
and then it's up to the miner.

300
00:22:12,652 --> 00:22:15,952
to add that to a block.

301
00:22:15,952 --> 00:22:19,112
When it's in a block, it's there forever, right?

302
00:22:19,112 --> 00:22:21,832
So it's not going to go away.

303
00:22:21,832 --> 00:22:28,552
And you could imagine a scenario where you have people

304
00:22:28,552 --> 00:22:29,712
with bad intentions.

305
00:22:29,712 --> 00:22:37,432
They start to put stuff, files that are questionable or illegal

306
00:22:37,432 --> 00:22:39,772
to arm Bitcoin, for instance.

307
00:22:39,772 --> 00:22:42,272
And then you would have a miner.

308
00:22:42,272 --> 00:22:46,832
It could be even a rogue miner that is adding that information

309
00:22:46,832 --> 00:22:48,212
and then it's forever, right?

310
00:22:48,932 --> 00:22:53,832
So that's the risk that we have at the moment

311
00:22:53,832 --> 00:22:59,432
with these large files that can make it to Bitcoin blockchain.

312
00:23:01,052 --> 00:23:04,332
And yeah, it can be anything.

313
00:23:04,692 --> 00:23:07,272
It could be, if we talk about illegal files,

314
00:23:07,272 --> 00:23:10,632
it could be Sysam, it could be anything, right?

315
00:23:10,632 --> 00:23:16,232
some secret stuff that should not be public.

316
00:23:17,252 --> 00:23:21,072
So it's kind of a risk that is hanging on Bitcoin.

317
00:23:22,172 --> 00:23:23,892
Some people are dismissing it.

318
00:23:24,052 --> 00:23:26,112
It's saying, you know, it's first of all,

319
00:23:26,132 --> 00:23:27,672
it was always possible to do that.

320
00:23:29,152 --> 00:23:32,132
Secondly, you know, it's a distributed network.

321
00:23:32,132 --> 00:23:37,652
So it's not kind of who are you going to go after

322
00:23:37,652 --> 00:23:40,612
if something like this happens.

323
00:23:41,572 --> 00:23:42,792
Of course, the node runners,

324
00:23:42,992 --> 00:23:44,832
they kind of store everything,

325
00:23:45,072 --> 00:23:49,952
but if they are not using that bad data

326
00:23:49,952 --> 00:23:51,032
or that bad information,

327
00:23:51,172 --> 00:23:54,572
then why should they be liable, right?

328
00:23:54,872 --> 00:23:56,032
That's a fair point.

329
00:23:56,032 --> 00:24:02,392
But the idea of removing the large file risk,

330
00:24:02,512 --> 00:24:03,812
it needs to decrease the risk.

331
00:24:04,032 --> 00:24:05,112
So that's really the idea.

332
00:24:05,112 --> 00:24:06,152
that's what

333
00:24:06,152 --> 00:24:07,692
bit.10 is doing

334
00:24:07,692 --> 00:24:08,952
so

335
00:24:08,952 --> 00:24:12,152
kind of reduce

336
00:24:12,152 --> 00:24:14,532
the spam

337
00:24:14,532 --> 00:24:15,832
issue

338
00:24:15,832 --> 00:24:18,852
and the risk of the large file

339
00:24:18,852 --> 00:24:19,832
you know the rogue

340
00:24:19,832 --> 00:24:21,672
scenario right

341
00:24:21,672 --> 00:24:24,692
that's the idea and I think bit.10

342
00:24:24,692 --> 00:24:25,352
is doing that

343
00:24:25,352 --> 00:24:26,952
so that would be

344
00:24:26,952 --> 00:24:29,352
that's why it's important

345
00:24:29,352 --> 00:24:29,892
right

346
00:24:29,892 --> 00:24:33,252
but yeah it's a very

347
00:24:33,252 --> 00:24:34,832
big debate

348
00:24:34,832 --> 00:24:37,792
and people have different ideas, different opinions.

349
00:24:38,152 --> 00:24:39,412
That's healthy as well.

350
00:24:39,872 --> 00:24:43,692
It's good to have this fight

351
00:24:43,692 --> 00:24:45,832
because then all the ideas are confronted

352
00:24:45,832 --> 00:24:49,992
and people can make their own decision.

353
00:24:51,992 --> 00:24:54,052
I think it's very important for Bitcoin

354
00:24:54,052 --> 00:24:57,992
to have this debate now and discussion.

355
00:24:58,472 --> 00:25:00,032
And this fight as well.

356
00:25:00,372 --> 00:25:00,772
I agree.

357
00:25:01,092 --> 00:25:03,852
And there's a lot of hand-waving over this topic,

358
00:25:03,852 --> 00:25:06,032
which is a fucking important topic.

359
00:25:06,632 --> 00:25:09,472
You know, you can't just look the other way on this one.

360
00:25:10,232 --> 00:25:12,412
And you've got one side saying,

361
00:25:12,752 --> 00:25:14,972
oh, this is definitely going to happen.

362
00:25:15,212 --> 00:25:16,552
And the other side saying,

363
00:25:16,672 --> 00:25:18,652
this is completely overblown.

364
00:25:18,732 --> 00:25:19,412
This is FUD.

365
00:25:19,532 --> 00:25:22,352
You're bringing fear, uncertainty and doubt

366
00:25:22,352 --> 00:25:23,392
when you needn't bother.

367
00:25:24,592 --> 00:25:27,272
And anyway, you've always been able to do it.

368
00:25:27,312 --> 00:25:28,812
It's probably already on the blockchain.

369
00:25:29,132 --> 00:25:30,452
You're probably already storing it.

370
00:25:30,592 --> 00:25:30,952
I'm like, what?

371
00:25:30,952 --> 00:25:33,372
That scares the shit out of me, to be honest.

372
00:25:33,852 --> 00:25:36,672
You know, I don't want any part of that.

373
00:25:37,132 --> 00:25:44,912
And whether that is pictures or like illegal documents, whatever, whatever it might be, anything like that.

374
00:25:44,912 --> 00:25:54,472
If there is an option on the table for you to say, I don't want any of that coming on to my software or hardware that I'm running in my house.

375
00:25:54,472 --> 00:26:01,472
you've you know you've at least you've got the option now to like look at it and say do i want

376
00:26:01,472 --> 00:26:07,472
to carry on running that or do i want to choose this over here and then of course you've had the

377
00:26:07,472 --> 00:26:16,632
whole debate like filters don't work bro uh which seems truly ingenuous because your data and your

378
00:26:16,632 --> 00:26:24,352
analysis shows perfectly well that they do work and this is where the the debate or the argument

379
00:26:24,352 --> 00:26:30,552
gets conflated around censorship and filtration,

380
00:26:31,452 --> 00:26:33,812
which are clearly different things.

381
00:26:34,152 --> 00:26:36,652
And the way I like to...

382
00:26:36,652 --> 00:26:39,052
I use the analogy of a Brita filter.

383
00:26:39,572 --> 00:26:41,672
Is your Brita filter censoring water?

384
00:26:43,352 --> 00:26:44,792
Well, no, it's filtering it, right?

385
00:26:45,992 --> 00:26:47,352
That's a very good one.

386
00:26:48,672 --> 00:26:50,992
It's about as basic as I think I could get it.

387
00:26:50,992 --> 00:26:53,412
There is a huge difference between...

388
00:26:54,352 --> 00:27:00,092
And this language is getting used and it's being pointedly used as well.

389
00:27:00,712 --> 00:27:04,292
There is a difference between filtration and censorship.

390
00:27:05,072 --> 00:27:07,952
And yeah, I'd just like to get your thoughts on that.

391
00:27:08,332 --> 00:27:08,772
Yeah.

392
00:27:09,992 --> 00:27:12,032
Yeah, it's very interesting.

393
00:27:12,032 --> 00:27:18,452
And this is the point that is always brought by the opponent of the B.10.

394
00:27:19,372 --> 00:27:23,632
It's really that, okay, you are doing censorship here.

395
00:27:24,352 --> 00:27:24,932
But it's not.

396
00:27:26,072 --> 00:27:29,592
This is where maybe my background is helping a bit

397
00:27:29,592 --> 00:27:32,732
because I've been in the telecom industry

398
00:27:32,732 --> 00:27:34,772
and I have worked on protocols.

399
00:27:35,532 --> 00:27:37,612
So 3G, 4G, 5G protocols.

400
00:27:39,012 --> 00:27:40,772
And Bitcoin is a protocol, right?

401
00:27:41,292 --> 00:27:44,932
And the protocol has to have some rules

402
00:27:44,932 --> 00:27:49,972
and to basically to make sure that the use case

403
00:27:49,972 --> 00:27:53,652
that is providing is optimized, optimal.

404
00:27:54,352 --> 00:28:00,392
And those filters, they are rules, right?

405
00:28:00,552 --> 00:28:05,052
And they can be either policy rules or consensus rules.

406
00:28:06,072 --> 00:28:13,452
But the idea anyway is to optimize for the use case that Bitcoin is providing,

407
00:28:13,672 --> 00:28:16,152
which is money, right?

408
00:28:16,312 --> 00:28:17,072
Digital money.

409
00:28:19,252 --> 00:28:21,912
So it has nothing to do with censorship.

410
00:28:21,912 --> 00:28:26,412
it has all to do with protocol optimization

411
00:28:26,412 --> 00:28:27,732
and use case optimization.

412
00:28:29,032 --> 00:28:32,552
And you can argue that, okay, what is Bitcoin for?

413
00:28:33,672 --> 00:28:36,012
And some say that, why are you saying,

414
00:28:36,092 --> 00:28:38,432
you know, it's just for money, it can be for other things.

415
00:28:39,692 --> 00:28:42,612
But at some point you have to draw the line, right?

416
00:28:42,712 --> 00:28:49,352
And you have also to basically also let the market speak.

417
00:28:49,972 --> 00:28:51,832
What is the market valuing?

418
00:28:51,912 --> 00:29:00,772
Bitcoin for? Is it for database storage or is it for money? And it's most likely it's just for money.

419
00:29:00,772 --> 00:29:08,112
If we have this one trillion now of market value, it's probably not the database use case that is

420
00:29:08,112 --> 00:29:14,932
valued like this. So that's really about protocol optimization and not censorship.

421
00:29:14,932 --> 00:29:22,172
Right. So doing the filtering is not looking at who is sending, which would be censorship,

422
00:29:22,452 --> 00:29:30,832
but it's looking at what is it that we are allowing. And the BIP.NN in that sense is quite

423
00:29:30,832 --> 00:29:37,332
mild because it's just look at the size mostly. Right. If it's above a certain size, then it's,

424
00:29:37,332 --> 00:29:46,312
it means it's not monetary so we just take it off right and um yeah so that's i think the the

425
00:29:46,312 --> 00:29:54,772
but that's a very big uh that might be the biggest uh point that is debated right censorship versus

426
00:29:54,772 --> 00:30:03,452
uh filtering exactly so anybody listening that has entered into that debate uh i hope that's

427
00:30:03,452 --> 00:30:05,532
given a little bit of extra context.

428
00:30:05,772 --> 00:30:09,172
But the underlying point here is if you've entered into the debate

429
00:30:09,172 --> 00:30:13,672
and you're not running a node, why have you entered into the debate?

430
00:30:14,352 --> 00:30:15,652
Yes, yes, yes.

431
00:30:15,832 --> 00:30:17,392
So you're tracking nodes as well.

432
00:30:18,172 --> 00:30:23,132
That's the other thing, right, is that, yeah, exactly like you say,

433
00:30:23,232 --> 00:30:29,972
if you don't run a node, but, I mean, your opinion is kind of not very relevant.

434
00:30:29,972 --> 00:30:49,152
Right. So and that's also the good thing, I think, about this war or this fight is that I think it brings more people to realize that the node is one of the key components in Bitcoin.

435
00:30:49,152 --> 00:30:52,332
I think there are more people now running nodes.

436
00:30:52,732 --> 00:30:56,852
If I look at the numbers, I seem to remember that, you know,

437
00:30:56,912 --> 00:30:59,972
about a year or two years ago, we had only 20,000,

438
00:31:00,592 --> 00:31:03,952
about 20,000 listening nodes, and now it's more 25,000.

439
00:31:04,832 --> 00:31:09,572
So it does kind of push also people to kind of take action

440
00:31:09,572 --> 00:31:20,818
and then run maybe set up some nodes yeah So the node is really the yeah there are different components in Bitcoin

441
00:31:20,818 --> 00:31:23,838
But the node is one of the most important one.

442
00:31:23,838 --> 00:31:25,678
You have the miners, of course, and then you

443
00:31:25,678 --> 00:31:28,558
have the exchange and the market.

444
00:31:28,558 --> 00:31:34,978
But the node is really the element that

445
00:31:34,978 --> 00:31:44,258
deciding on the rules, what is a valid block, what is not. And if the node says it's not valid,

446
00:31:44,258 --> 00:31:51,378
then the block is just rejected. So yeah, that's very, very, very important.

447
00:31:52,098 --> 00:31:58,178
And you've got as well on the BitcoinPortal.com, you just go to anybody listening, go to the nodes

448
00:31:58,178 --> 00:32:04,098
tab, then you've got the network overview, you've got listening nodes, and you've got the BIP110

449
00:32:04,098 --> 00:32:10,558
signaling nodes so this is probably the the best part of the uh the database to dig into right now

450
00:32:10,558 --> 00:32:18,618
uh it's just loading for me now right okay now people are going to open this page and uh they're

451
00:32:18,618 --> 00:32:23,538
going to be a little bit shocked in the in the beginning because and we'll get into that uh

452
00:32:23,538 --> 00:32:29,218
because it says zero percent zero percent block signaling zero activation threshold 55 percent

453
00:32:29,218 --> 00:32:35,638
not reached. Right. That's the top line there. Network node readiness. You've got BIP 110 ready

454
00:32:35,638 --> 00:32:46,798
nodes. 7.62% is what's showing at the moment, which is 1920 out of 25,209 nodes. How's that

455
00:32:46,798 --> 00:32:53,558
figure changed since you started running this? Yeah, it's a dramatic increase. So about a month

456
00:32:53,558 --> 00:32:58,678
ago there was there was less than one percent of those when did you start did you start tracking

457
00:32:58,678 --> 00:33:05,878
this as of december when this i think no i think i i started tracking in january okay

458
00:33:07,558 --> 00:33:16,198
but in fact the we had we had the the spec uh already november december but the software was

459
00:33:16,198 --> 00:33:25,638
ready only maybe in January. So that's when I started to track. And yeah, so that 7.6%,

460
00:33:27,318 --> 00:33:36,598
that just shows the portion of nodes, Bitcoin nodes that are running B.10. And it has been going up

461
00:33:36,598 --> 00:33:40,938
up really, really fast in a few weeks.

462
00:33:40,938 --> 00:33:43,558
So from 0% to almost 8% now.

463
00:33:46,098 --> 00:33:48,538
And then at the top, those top numbers

464
00:33:48,538 --> 00:33:52,198
is really the miners, right?

465
00:33:52,198 --> 00:33:54,738
At the moment, no miner is signaling.

466
00:33:54,738 --> 00:33:57,878
But I would not expect this to go very fast

467
00:33:57,878 --> 00:34:02,198
because there is no strong incentive for miners

468
00:34:02,198 --> 00:34:05,398
to signal very early.

469
00:34:05,398 --> 00:34:09,778
But as we approach the deadline in August and September,

470
00:34:10,778 --> 00:34:15,378
they will start to really consider their options here.

471
00:34:15,378 --> 00:34:20,419
And this is issue number nine of your weekly updates.

472
00:34:20,778 --> 00:34:23,258
Why miners will comply with BIP 110.

473
00:34:24,078 --> 00:34:24,358
Yes.

474
00:34:24,618 --> 00:34:27,758
Bold claim, bold title.

475
00:34:27,998 --> 00:34:30,478
Some might even say clickbaity title.

476
00:34:31,338 --> 00:34:34,658
But underneath the game theory, the positioning game,

477
00:34:34,658 --> 00:34:36,718
and why early activation is likely.

478
00:34:36,939 --> 00:34:40,638
So I'm sure you've probably got a lot of pushback on this

479
00:34:40,638 --> 00:34:43,419
from one side of the fence here.

480
00:34:44,018 --> 00:34:45,078
Let's go through it.

481
00:34:45,978 --> 00:34:48,898
Let's try and figure out what you're trying to say here.

482
00:34:48,998 --> 00:34:51,818
So you start off with basic game theory.

483
00:34:53,578 --> 00:34:54,558
Well, no, you've got a summary.

484
00:34:55,538 --> 00:34:56,778
The asymmetry is brutal.

485
00:34:56,919 --> 00:34:59,518
Compliance costs approximately 0.1% of revenue.

486
00:34:59,718 --> 00:35:01,498
Resistance risks everything.

487
00:35:01,498 --> 00:35:04,278
No rational miner chooses the second option.

488
00:35:04,658 --> 00:35:07,858
So the basic game theory, a minor faces two choices,

489
00:35:07,978 --> 00:35:10,998
comply with BIP, excuse me, BIP 110 or resist.

490
00:35:11,478 --> 00:35:15,718
Now, I'm not sure, you know, just like the general listener

491
00:35:15,718 --> 00:35:21,758
might not understand why the choice is coming, what may, you know?

492
00:35:22,878 --> 00:35:24,538
They might have their heads in the sand.

493
00:35:24,678 --> 00:35:26,858
It's like, no, well, you know, no one's going to activate it.

494
00:35:26,898 --> 00:35:29,078
And so we're just going to move on and it will just go,

495
00:35:29,978 --> 00:35:32,038
it'll just be another drama that we don't talk about anymore.

496
00:35:32,038 --> 00:35:33,378
But BIP 110 is coming.

497
00:35:34,658 --> 00:35:36,158
Yeah, it's coming.

498
00:35:36,419 --> 00:35:43,078
I mean, it's, you know, the idea is that the nodes

499
00:35:43,078 --> 00:35:51,718
that are running BIP1.10 will activate at the latest in September.

500
00:35:52,959 --> 00:35:53,738
That's the latest.

501
00:35:54,218 --> 00:35:56,658
Of course, BIP1.10 can activate earlier

502
00:35:56,658 --> 00:36:00,419
if there is more than 55% of the minor signaling.

503
00:36:01,498 --> 00:36:03,178
But anyway, it will activate.

504
00:36:03,178 --> 00:36:18,998
And when that happens, it means that the miners that are sending blocks that do not follow BIP 110 or do not signal even, those blocks will be rejected.

505
00:36:20,498 --> 00:36:25,138
So that's really the consequence of the BIP 110 now.

506
00:36:25,138 --> 00:36:37,238
Now we have to realize that those miners, they probably say,

507
00:36:37,238 --> 00:36:43,038
I would claim that the miners, they don't have a strong opinion on spam.

508
00:36:43,038 --> 00:36:48,338
And at the moment, they are adding quite a bit of spam to blocks

509
00:36:48,338 --> 00:36:51,638
because that's the current environment they operate in.

510
00:36:51,638 --> 00:36:56,638
So we have this permissive rules, permissive filters.

511
00:36:56,638 --> 00:37:00,638
So they just do their job, right?

512
00:37:00,638 --> 00:37:04,638
They find a block, they fill it first with financial data.

513
00:37:04,638 --> 00:37:11,638
And then when they see that the block is actually not very much full,

514
00:37:11,638 --> 00:37:14,638
so they just continue and add more stuff.

515
00:37:14,638 --> 00:37:18,638
And now we are at around 40% span.

516
00:37:18,638 --> 00:37:24,718
spam. But I don't think they have a very strong opinion about that. And if you look at their,

517
00:37:24,718 --> 00:37:33,518
what revenue they make from the spam fees, at the moment, it's very small. It's 0.1% of their

518
00:37:33,518 --> 00:37:40,158
revenue income is coming from the spam fees. So if you remove that, they are not going to fill it

519
00:37:40,158 --> 00:37:47,278
very much. And there has been some time, like two years ago, where the spam fees were very high.

520
00:37:47,278 --> 00:37:51,078
So they were making a lot of money with the spam fees, but not anymore.

521
00:37:51,078 --> 00:37:54,419
It was lasting only a couple of weeks, right?

522
00:37:55,678 --> 00:37:57,158
Nowadays, it has totally changed.

523
00:37:57,398 --> 00:38:00,178
So they don't really make a lot of money with that.

524
00:38:01,439 --> 00:38:09,558
Now they will have to really evaluate what is going to happen if they don't signal

525
00:38:09,558 --> 00:38:18,118
and how determined is the P.10 camp forks and nodes.

526
00:38:20,718 --> 00:38:25,698
And if they don't signal, then it means there will be a chain split.

527
00:38:26,638 --> 00:38:29,138
So they will have to deal with that as well.

528
00:38:29,758 --> 00:38:34,338
So it's a burden on them as well because you can also always say,

529
00:38:34,459 --> 00:38:37,358
okay, if no miner is signaling,

530
00:38:37,358 --> 00:38:43,218
then there will be just the B.10 chain is not going to grow.

531
00:38:43,358 --> 00:38:44,998
It's not going to go anywhere.

532
00:38:45,939 --> 00:38:48,338
And, you know, it's going to die.

533
00:38:48,578 --> 00:38:52,698
Yes, that could be the case, but still it's a chain split.

534
00:38:53,338 --> 00:38:55,439
And it's a big event.

535
00:38:55,598 --> 00:38:59,038
And it's going to be a big burden for the miners anyway.

536
00:38:59,998 --> 00:39:00,278
Right?

537
00:39:00,698 --> 00:39:04,018
So another question is, do they really have a strong opinion about spam?

538
00:39:04,018 --> 00:39:08,678
Do they really like spam so much that they are ready to go for a chain split?

539
00:39:08,858 --> 00:39:11,098
I think that's the main question.

540
00:39:11,378 --> 00:39:13,698
And I would argue that probably not.

541
00:39:14,618 --> 00:39:21,278
So probably they also will see the benefit long term of, you know, mitigating the spam

542
00:39:21,278 --> 00:39:28,959
so that it makes Bitcoin less risky to those edge case scenario that we have talked about.

543
00:39:28,959 --> 00:39:35,439
and long term it could actually be a good very good thing for bitcoin price a very good good

544
00:39:35,439 --> 00:39:41,098
thing for the miners so when they run the you know the scenarios the logic probably they would

545
00:39:41,098 --> 00:39:49,558
conclude that it's their interest to go along but yeah i mean one other point just just to

546
00:39:49,558 --> 00:39:54,838
yeah just to add to this as well like the the biggest mining companies as far as i'm aware

547
00:39:54,838 --> 00:40:00,618
are publicly listed companies is is that correct sorry so again the biggest miners are the are

548
00:40:00,618 --> 00:40:08,298
publicly listed companies all right yes so they have my goodness which brings us back to our

549
00:40:08,298 --> 00:40:15,558
earlier discussion about illegal content and if you are a publicly listed company and you are

550
00:40:15,558 --> 00:40:19,778
registered as a publicly listed company in the jurisdiction in which you in the country in which

551
00:40:19,778 --> 00:40:26,718
you are uh you know carrying out your your business and you have a fiduciary duty to your

552
00:40:26,718 --> 00:40:35,318
shareholders and like you can see how quickly this could just be oh my god like we have to

553
00:40:35,318 --> 00:40:43,878
signal now but we can't take any further chances with anything coming across uh because that's

554
00:40:43,878 --> 00:40:50,338
catastrophic like that's game over that's the that's close the doors guys your business is being

555
00:40:50,338 --> 00:40:56,198
audited and if we find anything untoward turn the machines off until like you know

556
00:40:56,198 --> 00:41:03,998
it's insane exactly exactly uh this is a really a big question mark why

557
00:41:03,998 --> 00:41:12,178
you know people are not kind of all agreeing on that it's a it seems to be pretty evident

558
00:41:12,178 --> 00:41:19,178
But there is also this angle that probably most likely those miners at the moment,

559
00:41:19,178 --> 00:41:23,178
they say, yeah, fine, but we are doing your own stuff, right?

560
00:41:23,178 --> 00:41:30,178
We are looking at those transactions and we make sure we don't add anything

561
00:41:30,178 --> 00:41:32,178
that is illegal there.

562
00:41:32,178 --> 00:41:34,178
That's most likely the case.

563
00:41:34,178 --> 00:41:39,919
But of course, they are not, they are still not,

564
00:41:39,944 --> 00:41:45,324
you know, at risk of a rogue miner out there anywhere,

565
00:41:45,444 --> 00:41:46,684
it could be anywhere in the world,

566
00:41:47,144 --> 00:41:49,124
adding bad stuff to one block.

567
00:41:49,664 --> 00:41:52,744
And then those other miners,

568
00:41:52,864 --> 00:41:57,124
they will have to anyway take that in the blockchain as well.

569
00:41:58,044 --> 00:41:59,804
So it's not just them, right?

570
00:41:59,864 --> 00:42:02,784
It's any miner anywhere that can do that.

571
00:42:03,744 --> 00:42:05,344
So yeah, I agree with you.

572
00:42:05,504 --> 00:42:07,924
You know, it seems to be a no-brainer.

573
00:42:07,924 --> 00:42:18,444
but uh so for anybody that's um unaware of like how this whole thing plays out because it's very

574
00:42:18,444 --> 00:42:23,984
difficult to to understand if you especially if you're if you're new uh it's very difficult for a

575
00:42:23,984 --> 00:42:28,504
lot of people to understand i've been around for many years and it's still trying to wrap your head

576
00:42:28,504 --> 00:42:35,284
around it you know all of the economic factors uh and the technical details and whatever else

577
00:42:35,284 --> 00:42:44,444
nodes at the moment can signal their intent by running knots and signaling for bit 110

578
00:42:44,444 --> 00:42:50,824
miners and this is yeah there's a specific i can't remember the specific block height that

579
00:42:50,824 --> 00:43:01,604
bit 110 gets activated but miners if 55 or more of miners signal over any two-week period that they

580
00:43:01,604 --> 00:43:08,564
are going to mine BIP 110, it gets activated early before the 1st of September deadline,

581
00:43:08,744 --> 00:43:12,624
which that's the forced activation. Sorry, not 1st of September, the block height, which is around

582
00:43:12,624 --> 00:43:19,704
1st of September. And then after that, there's a period, there's a couple of two-week periods,

583
00:43:19,704 --> 00:43:26,744
I think, where the miners are going to sit there and just watch things play out. And it's kind of

584
00:43:26,744 --> 00:43:37,264
like uh you know who moves first really yes yes exactly and um and now we are wondering you know

585
00:43:37,264 --> 00:43:44,164
why the miners they are not moving faster but it's also reflecting i think the the actual state of the

586
00:43:44,164 --> 00:43:53,144
of the power you know structure that you have in bitcoin so you have the nodes that actually

587
00:43:53,144 --> 00:43:55,024
decide on the rules.

588
00:43:55,524 --> 00:43:57,284
And then you have the miners that follow.

589
00:43:58,284 --> 00:44:00,964
So now that we see that they are following

590
00:44:00,964 --> 00:44:04,144
is not a big surprise either.

591
00:44:04,984 --> 00:44:08,984
So they are just entities that will adapt

592
00:44:08,984 --> 00:44:12,804
or that are adapting to the current rule set

593
00:44:12,804 --> 00:44:15,024
and they will adapt to the future one.

594
00:44:16,244 --> 00:44:20,524
So in a way that the fact that they are not signaling early

595
00:44:20,524 --> 00:44:21,984
is also expected.

596
00:44:21,984 --> 00:44:31,904
right? They are most likely at the moment looking at it and trying to understand what's going on.

597
00:44:33,264 --> 00:44:41,184
Again, I don't think they have a very strong opinion about spam. They just operate according

598
00:44:41,184 --> 00:44:47,984
to the current rule set, which is permissive. And now they are probably thinking, okay, something

599
00:44:47,984 --> 00:44:50,644
I think most week is coming.

600
00:44:50,644 --> 00:44:54,744
We have to prepare, but we are not in a hurry at the moment

601
00:44:54,744 --> 00:44:58,424
because the deadline is in August actually.

602
00:44:58,424 --> 00:45:01,944
So before this activation,

603
00:45:01,944 --> 00:45:05,524
you have a kind of a mandatory signaling period.

604
00:45:05,524 --> 00:45:08,144
So it's in August and in that period,

605
00:45:08,144 --> 00:45:13,144
the miners will have to signal their support to B.10.

606
00:45:13,744 --> 00:45:16,204
If they don't, then their block gets rejected.

607
00:45:16,204 --> 00:45:18,944
So we could have already a chain split there in no cost.

608
00:45:20,084 --> 00:45:26,004
And this is the big worry for a lot of people.

609
00:45:26,124 --> 00:45:28,484
A lot of people that have been around Bitcoin for a long time

610
00:45:28,484 --> 00:45:30,684
and have been stacking sats diligently.

611
00:45:31,904 --> 00:45:34,484
There's a lot of fear around what's going to happen,

612
00:45:34,584 --> 00:45:38,584
what's going to happen to the price, obviously,

613
00:45:39,124 --> 00:45:42,424
because a lot of people have got a lot of value stored in this.

614
00:45:42,424 --> 00:45:46,044
And a lot of people as well have built businesses around Bitcoin

615
00:45:46,044 --> 00:45:50,604
A lot of companies have started accepting Bitcoin on their balance sheet, for example.

616
00:45:51,284 --> 00:46:09,584
And the worst case scenario is the chain split, an absolute clusterfuck of misunderstanding, not being able to make rational economic decisions in time of panic and unease.

617
00:46:11,344 --> 00:46:13,584
How is that avoidable?

618
00:46:14,864 --> 00:46:15,104
Yeah.

619
00:46:16,044 --> 00:46:20,444
Yeah, I would say, again, let's see how things play out really.

620
00:46:21,244 --> 00:46:27,644
But I would say if there is a chain split, it means that some entities out there are very

621
00:46:28,924 --> 00:46:38,284
committed to mining spam, to add spam to the blockchain, right? Because I don't see really a

622
00:46:38,284 --> 00:46:46,124
scenario where we have a chain split and people don't really care about spam. It's more like

623
00:46:48,764 --> 00:46:55,884
if we have one, then there are some entities that have very strong opinion that spam should stay

624
00:46:56,604 --> 00:47:04,844
on the blockchain and it's important, you know. And it doesn't make a lot of sense. So I would

625
00:47:04,844 --> 00:47:09,964
I would guess we are not going to see a chain split, but we'll see.

626
00:47:09,964 --> 00:47:14,064
There are a lot of unknown, right?

627
00:47:14,644 --> 00:47:20,344
So there could be hidden incentive as well, things that we don't know.

628
00:47:21,864 --> 00:47:29,684
Some people against Bitcoin wanting to push for the spammy blockchain option.

629
00:47:29,684 --> 00:47:42,164
We don't know, but if we follow the rational behavior of these economic entities like miners,

630
00:47:42,964 --> 00:47:51,044
the rational thing for them is just to get along and signal early enough so that we don't even go

631
00:47:51,044 --> 00:47:59,524
to this mandatory signaling period. So that 1.10 is activated maybe in Q2, somewhere there.

632
00:47:59,684 --> 00:48:04,384
so that they have enough time to understand what is going on

633
00:48:04,384 --> 00:48:08,204
and then prepare themselves and go for it.

634
00:48:08,704 --> 00:48:10,924
So I would say this is the most likely scenario.

635
00:48:11,624 --> 00:48:13,184
But some disagree.

636
00:48:13,344 --> 00:48:17,204
Some say that, no, if miners don't do anything,

637
00:48:17,924 --> 00:48:26,264
which is the less energy kind of consuming approach,

638
00:48:27,264 --> 00:48:29,564
then B.10 will not happen.

639
00:48:29,684 --> 00:48:36,684
But again, it depends on the commitment of the Big 1.10 camp.

640
00:48:36,684 --> 00:48:41,684
So if the camp is very committed, really believes

641
00:48:41,684 --> 00:48:47,684
that it makes a lot of sense, and even believes

642
00:48:47,684 --> 00:48:52,684
that there is a strong demand, but not just for now,

643
00:48:52,684 --> 00:48:58,684
but also in the future, then that changes the game.

644
00:48:58,684 --> 00:49:06,764
that changes the game right so yeah that's my that's and that might seem optimistic you know

645
00:49:06,764 --> 00:49:14,204
but i think that also makes logical sense right so well okay let's take let's say that's the best

646
00:49:14,204 --> 00:49:20,364
case scenario um if that's the best case scenario somebody could go on holiday for the next three

647
00:49:20,364 --> 00:49:26,444
months leave the node running at home tune out of twitter tune out of nostra not listen to another

648
00:49:26,444 --> 00:49:33,724
podcast you come back and everything will just be fine but bit 110 would have activated the the

649
00:49:33,724 --> 00:49:52,450
blocks will be spamming excuse me uh filtering out the spam uh your bitcoin is your bitcoin there wasn a there wasn an airdrop of another coin and um everybody goes around their business Is that the best case scenario Yeah I think this is the one that makes sense

650
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:58,870
The worst case scenario is we get up to September.

651
00:49:59,630 --> 00:50:03,030
The miners haven't activated in any way, shape or form.

652
00:50:03,350 --> 00:50:04,170
They haven't signaled.

653
00:50:04,750 --> 00:50:08,050
And then we get into this kind of waiting period

654
00:50:08,050 --> 00:50:09,710
where they're mining both chains.

655
00:50:09,810 --> 00:50:15,330
and you've now got Bitcoin and some other coin,

656
00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:20,830
and it's a mess, and no one knows where it's going.

657
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:25,930
It's a mess, and it's also going to impact the price.

658
00:50:26,490 --> 00:50:27,270
For sure.

659
00:50:27,730 --> 00:50:28,870
Quite certainly, right?

660
00:50:28,970 --> 00:50:32,210
So it makes sense that it would impact the price.

661
00:50:32,850 --> 00:50:33,710
And that's the other thing.

662
00:50:33,830 --> 00:50:34,930
That's the other angle.

663
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:36,810
So are the miners ready for that?

664
00:50:37,570 --> 00:50:38,690
So if they don't do anything,

665
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:40,150
that's what's going to happen

666
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:42,570
and they can say yeah we let

667
00:50:42,570 --> 00:50:43,910
the big point tension die

668
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:46,050
die off but still

669
00:50:46,050 --> 00:50:48,590
it will be a kind of

670
00:50:48,590 --> 00:50:50,050
and would the

671
00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:52,690
exchanges be ready for that because people

672
00:50:52,690 --> 00:50:54,530
are going to be like having

673
00:50:54,530 --> 00:50:56,690
a very

674
00:50:56,690 --> 00:50:58,630
tough time trying to figure out what to

675
00:50:58,630 --> 00:51:00,310
hold on to and what not to and

676
00:51:00,310 --> 00:51:02,090
you know it's going to

677
00:51:02,090 --> 00:51:04,450
like the confusion is going to be crazy

678
00:51:04,450 --> 00:51:05,750
yeah

679
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:07,830
yeah yeah

680
00:51:07,830 --> 00:51:11,070
And even within the chain split scenario,

681
00:51:11,070 --> 00:51:13,310
there are multiple scenarios, right?

682
00:51:13,310 --> 00:51:16,550
You have the scenario where the B.10 chain

683
00:51:16,550 --> 00:51:20,470
is not progressing at all, no hash rate or very little.

684
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:23,110
And then you have the scenario where it's actually

685
00:51:23,110 --> 00:51:28,390
having a decent hash rate, 50% or more.

686
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:31,990
And then the scenario where it has 90%.

687
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:36,830
And yeah, so it's very uncertain what

688
00:51:36,830 --> 00:51:44,990
happens if there is a chain split. Very uncertain. So I mean, people have to be ready for that.

689
00:51:49,630 --> 00:51:55,310
You may say, yeah, I don't care about bit.10, I don't signal. Fine, but you have to be ready for

690
00:51:55,310 --> 00:51:57,270
for that chain split scenario.

691
00:51:58,690 --> 00:52:03,690
So, but it's, yeah, it's very uncertain at the moment.

692
00:52:08,670 --> 00:52:12,070
I would say the most likely is that we don't have a chain split,

693
00:52:13,290 --> 00:52:18,290
but if it happens, then it's going to be a mess for sure.

694
00:52:18,490 --> 00:52:21,210
And then one of the other concerns

695
00:52:21,210 --> 00:52:26,830
that I've seen out there is that it's not going to be compatible

696
00:52:26,830 --> 00:52:29,470
with certain inheritance.

697
00:52:30,010 --> 00:52:33,670
Perhaps it's not going to be compatible with certain inheritance setups.

698
00:52:34,050 --> 00:52:38,290
If you're running Miniscript, if you've got some kind of multisig,

699
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:43,050
this is all, I think, very edge case.

700
00:52:43,050 --> 00:52:47,330
But it has to be considered.

701
00:52:47,330 --> 00:52:52,250
if people, you know, a lot of people have put a lot of time and energy

702
00:52:52,250 --> 00:52:54,130
into building these kinds of things as well.

703
00:52:54,130 --> 00:53:01,370
So they're economically and emotionally attached to these services.

704
00:53:02,810 --> 00:53:04,490
Have you looked into that at all?

705
00:53:06,110 --> 00:53:09,010
Not in too much detail, I have to say,

706
00:53:09,130 --> 00:53:13,650
but I really understand that this should not be an issue with B.10.

707
00:53:13,650 --> 00:53:18,650
So multi-sign is still working fine.

708
00:53:18,650 --> 00:53:27,650
And then you may have very odd and edge scenarios

709
00:53:27,650 --> 00:53:30,650
where you may have a problem, but then it's also up to you

710
00:53:30,650 --> 00:53:31,650
to migrate.

711
00:53:31,650 --> 00:53:36,650
If you have done something a little bit more complex,

712
00:53:36,650 --> 00:53:41,650
more maybe a bit strange, then you see Bip1 then coming,

713
00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:43,450
you just migrate.

714
00:53:43,650 --> 00:53:48,050
to some Sonder setup, and then you're fine.

715
00:53:48,050 --> 00:53:56,050
So this is an argument that was thrown by the B.10 opponents.

716
00:53:56,050 --> 00:53:59,490
They say, yeah, but you are breaking the miniscript.

717
00:53:59,490 --> 00:54:02,310
You are breaking the multisig.

718
00:54:02,310 --> 00:54:08,010
No, it's just very rare cases, edge cases,

719
00:54:08,010 --> 00:54:09,630
and you have plenty of time to migrate.

720
00:54:09,630 --> 00:54:13,630
So I don't think that's really a sound and valid argument.

721
00:54:13,650 --> 00:54:18,390
And the final point on that is BIP 110 is going to run for one year

722
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:22,730
and then there's going to be like a reset or a cooling off period

723
00:54:22,730 --> 00:54:25,870
or like let's drop a knee, guys.

724
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:27,370
Let's see what this did.

725
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:29,870
Let's see whether it worked, what needs changing.

726
00:54:30,190 --> 00:54:32,030
Is that the correct way to?

727
00:54:32,550 --> 00:54:32,690
Okay.

728
00:54:33,130 --> 00:54:33,570
Exactly.

729
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:35,390
So that's the other thing.

730
00:54:35,530 --> 00:54:38,510
It's another argument for BIP 110 is that it's low risk.

731
00:54:39,450 --> 00:54:42,410
So that if there is something that was not foreseen, you know, that's okay.

732
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:44,070
I don't think that's the case

733
00:54:44,070 --> 00:54:45,730
but if you know

734
00:54:45,730 --> 00:54:47,350
then after one year we can

735
00:54:47,350 --> 00:54:50,070
we are back to the

736
00:54:50,070 --> 00:54:52,170
to the non

737
00:54:52,170 --> 00:54:53,650
kind of Bit.10

738
00:54:53,650 --> 00:54:56,230
let's say for those edge case people

739
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:57,990
that all of a sudden lost access to their Bitcoin

740
00:54:57,990 --> 00:55:00,350
it comes back to them one year later

741
00:55:00,350 --> 00:55:01,530
whereas

742
00:55:01,530 --> 00:55:03,770
and I don't want to throw shade

743
00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:05,970
but like this is what happened

744
00:55:05,970 --> 00:55:07,410
Core V30 upgraded

745
00:55:07,410 --> 00:55:09,470
and they pushed through the upgrade

746
00:55:09,470 --> 00:55:12,110
the whole thing actually

747
00:55:12,110 --> 00:55:15,190
is just incredible when you just nutshell it.

748
00:55:16,030 --> 00:55:17,990
You know, the pull request was made.

749
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:21,210
The arguing happened for goodness knows how long,

750
00:55:21,330 --> 00:55:22,510
two years, three years.

751
00:55:22,890 --> 00:55:25,010
Then they pushed it through.

752
00:55:25,470 --> 00:55:27,590
And one of the biggest proponents for the push through

753
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:29,950
and just going against market narrative

754
00:55:29,950 --> 00:55:33,490
leaves the project.

755
00:55:34,690 --> 00:55:36,050
Like, you know, red flags everywhere.

756
00:55:37,450 --> 00:55:40,670
And there was a bug in version 30

757
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:47,570
that has sadly ended with people losing access to their Bitcoin.

758
00:55:48,110 --> 00:55:50,010
And that access is lost.

759
00:55:50,210 --> 00:55:51,290
It's gone.

760
00:55:51,970 --> 00:55:54,770
And I've heard the argument, well, they should have been more careful

761
00:55:54,770 --> 00:55:55,930
and they should have done their backups.

762
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:57,070
They should have known what they were doing,

763
00:55:57,170 --> 00:55:59,690
which is like, guys, you can't hand wave that away.

764
00:56:00,250 --> 00:56:01,750
You just can't.

765
00:56:01,750 --> 00:56:05,990
Whereas with Bit.110, if you do lose access to your coins

766
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:10,630
because of X, Y, or Z, a year later,

767
00:56:10,670 --> 00:56:13,230
you have access back to them.

768
00:56:13,390 --> 00:56:15,510
Now, yes, the price might have gone down

769
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:17,590
and things might have changed, but it might also have gone up.

770
00:56:17,690 --> 00:56:20,830
But the point being, it's not a catastrophic loss.

771
00:56:21,870 --> 00:56:23,930
Yeah, that's exactly the case.

772
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:30,410
And that gives time to evaluate what is working well

773
00:56:30,410 --> 00:56:32,790
and hopefully everything.

774
00:56:32,790 --> 00:56:34,630
But if there is something that is not,

775
00:56:35,410 --> 00:56:39,550
then we can kind of recover that.

776
00:56:39,550 --> 00:56:41,210
so that's

777
00:56:41,210 --> 00:56:42,290
really good

778
00:56:42,290 --> 00:56:45,350
and as I understand the idea of

779
00:56:45,350 --> 00:56:47,030
this one year is also that

780
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:49,590
you know

781
00:56:49,590 --> 00:56:51,370
that the preferred way

782
00:56:51,370 --> 00:56:52,170
to

783
00:56:52,170 --> 00:56:55,330
mitigate spam is really

784
00:56:55,330 --> 00:56:57,510
with the policy

785
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:59,550
not with consensus

786
00:56:59,550 --> 00:57:00,710
so that would be

787
00:57:00,710 --> 00:57:03,570
the idea would be to scare the spammer

788
00:57:03,570 --> 00:57:03,970
enough

789
00:57:03,970 --> 00:57:06,670
away so that

790
00:57:06,670 --> 00:57:08,850
after this one year

791
00:57:08,850 --> 00:57:11,450
filtering is kind of

792
00:57:11,450 --> 00:57:13,770
enough, right?

793
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:16,470
And if it's not, then again,

794
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:18,490
you know, they always will have

795
00:57:18,490 --> 00:57:19,790
any way this threat of being

796
00:57:19,790 --> 00:57:22,050
thrown off of the blockchain.

797
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:24,510
So, yeah, it's

798
00:57:24,510 --> 00:57:26,550
kind of mild, right? If you think

799
00:57:26,550 --> 00:57:28,450
about it. So one year

800
00:57:28,450 --> 00:57:30,670
and then we are back to kind of policy

801
00:57:30,670 --> 00:57:32,510
rules.

802
00:57:32,890 --> 00:57:34,470
So filtering, not doing

803
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:36,510
the filtering and

804
00:57:36,510 --> 00:57:38,350
then also the miners

805
00:57:38,350 --> 00:57:39,350
doing the filtering.

806
00:57:39,350 --> 00:57:40,350
Yeah.

807
00:57:40,350 --> 00:58:02,275
So that mild wise and sound Yeah I think what people need to kind of ask themselves is who has the economic incentive to have the ability to spam the blockchain

808
00:58:02,275 --> 00:58:12,815
Is it you, the pleb, that's running a node and using Bitcoin as a savings technology and or spending at your local pub, coffee, restaurant?

809
00:58:12,815 --> 00:58:15,295
do you need the four megabyte blocks?

810
00:58:15,635 --> 00:58:16,695
I would argue no.

811
00:58:17,355 --> 00:58:18,355
So who does?

812
00:58:18,735 --> 00:58:19,575
Who wants them?

813
00:58:20,135 --> 00:58:21,495
Who's influencing it?

814
00:58:21,715 --> 00:58:23,095
Who's lobbying for it?

815
00:58:23,555 --> 00:58:24,695
And follow that money.

816
00:58:26,555 --> 00:58:26,735
Yeah.

817
00:58:28,195 --> 00:58:28,795
Exactly.

818
00:58:29,115 --> 00:58:29,555
Exactly.

819
00:58:29,735 --> 00:58:31,155
And then we are back to the discussion

820
00:58:31,155 --> 00:58:33,195
on what's the purpose of Bitcoin.

821
00:58:33,195 --> 00:58:35,195
Is it really a database storage

822
00:58:35,855 --> 00:58:39,955
or a monetary digital network, right?

823
00:58:39,955 --> 00:58:50,195
And you could see spam as a parasitic kind of activity there.

824
00:58:50,195 --> 00:58:54,415
Yeah, of course, they enjoy that because their stuff

825
00:58:54,415 --> 00:58:57,415
is stored forever for a little fee.

826
00:58:57,415 --> 00:58:57,915
Right?

827
00:58:57,915 --> 00:59:00,495
So it can be anything.

828
00:59:00,495 --> 00:59:05,695
So yeah, for them, it's really an easy way

829
00:59:05,695 --> 00:59:09,315
to have their stuff stored.

830
00:59:09,315 --> 00:59:17,235
yeah so um yeah i hope this conversation is is helping a lot of people you know think through it

831
00:59:17,875 --> 00:59:24,275
and um direct them towards your work uh make sure they start following you on on twitter

832
00:59:24,275 --> 00:59:31,075
ping you any questions and um ping you some pushback as well i'm sure you've got uh you've had much

833
00:59:31,795 --> 00:59:38,115
uh what what was the kind of thing that um you find yourself dealing with the most that the

834
00:59:38,115 --> 00:59:44,435
the main common objective yeah i i think uh and you know it's understandable as well but this is

835
00:59:44,435 --> 00:59:48,915
i think we covered already so censorship what you are doing is censorship

836
00:59:50,275 --> 00:59:56,355
and we i think we covered that so it's not censorship because it's um it's optimizing for the

837
00:59:57,155 --> 01:00:04,275
bitcoin purpose which is monetary um and then the other centralization argument has that come up

838
01:00:04,275 --> 01:00:06,735
because I know that's another one that gets thrown around.

839
01:00:06,915 --> 01:00:09,295
Like mining is becoming too centralized,

840
01:00:09,535 --> 01:00:11,055
which both sides agree on.

841
01:00:11,195 --> 01:00:12,835
Like this is the thing about this one.

842
01:00:13,055 --> 01:00:14,795
Like, you know, both sides,

843
01:00:14,895 --> 01:00:16,755
this is like when you go back to the block size wars,

844
01:00:16,875 --> 01:00:18,115
the original block size wars,

845
01:00:18,535 --> 01:00:21,595
both sides agreed we need extra space,

846
01:00:21,595 --> 01:00:24,375
but they were coming to vastly different opinions

847
01:00:24,375 --> 01:00:25,435
on how to do that.

848
01:00:25,935 --> 01:00:28,435
And so, all right, so we've got this situation

849
01:00:28,435 --> 01:00:32,155
where both sides agree mining is too centralized.

850
01:00:33,195 --> 01:00:33,635
Yes.

851
01:00:34,275 --> 01:00:39,095
Yeah, this is the funny thing, because for me, in fact,

852
01:00:39,095 --> 01:00:45,155
being more permissive with spam is a centralizing force

853
01:00:45,155 --> 01:00:52,915
because the more uncontrolled and more data

854
01:00:52,915 --> 01:00:57,775
that you have on the blockchain, the more control you need.

855
01:00:57,775 --> 01:00:58,855
Right?

856
01:00:58,855 --> 01:01:06,415
So you will have to have bigger entities that are able to look into the

857
01:01:06,415 --> 01:01:08,415
the

858
01:01:08,415 --> 01:01:18,095
which means less miners.

859
01:01:18,655 --> 01:01:25,415
And you could even imagine a scenario where you start to need to have regulation,

860
01:01:25,415 --> 01:01:27,415
you know, because...

861
01:01:27,415 --> 01:01:37,695
Let's go back to that original example I gave about if you're a publicly listed company and you are at the behest of all those regulations and jurisdictional laws and whatever else.

862
01:01:39,335 --> 01:01:43,935
And all of this stuff, this regulatory creep starts creeping into your mining business.

863
01:01:44,435 --> 01:01:50,215
You have to now order, excuse me, hire auditors, third party auditors.

864
01:01:50,375 --> 01:01:53,155
And they, as everybody knows, are very, very expensive.

865
01:01:53,595 --> 01:01:55,155
You'll have to have a whole legal team.

866
01:01:55,155 --> 01:01:56,815
You'd have to have a whole compliance team.

867
01:01:56,815 --> 01:02:21,235
And that centralizes shit because the only people that can afford that, this is what creates monopolies. We know this. We absolutely know this. We can look at any other sector and see how monopolies are created through regulatory creep. And again, just follow the money. Who are the people like putting these regulations in place and who is lobbying them?

868
01:02:21,235 --> 01:02:23,935
So I agree with you.

869
01:02:24,615 --> 01:02:28,295
Being more permissive to spam will create centralization.

870
01:02:28,535 --> 01:02:29,555
It's inevitable.

871
01:02:31,315 --> 01:02:33,875
Yes, I think that's exactly the case.

872
01:02:34,155 --> 01:02:37,575
So that is a little bit strange to hear that, you know,

873
01:02:37,655 --> 01:02:46,275
this current setup is made to avoid the centralization of the miner.

874
01:02:47,275 --> 01:02:49,155
But also, it's not just the mining, right?

875
01:02:49,215 --> 01:02:50,395
It's also the nodes.

876
01:02:51,235 --> 01:02:55,555
if anything can be added to the blockchain

877
01:02:55,555 --> 01:02:58,755
or to the main pool of the nodes,

878
01:02:59,315 --> 01:03:02,915
then soon enough, we might see regulators coming in

879
01:03:02,915 --> 01:03:04,915
and say, okay, you have to have a license

880
01:03:04,915 --> 01:03:06,615
if you want to run a node

881
01:03:06,615 --> 01:03:14,815
and to make sure that you are in line with our laws.

882
01:03:15,955 --> 01:03:20,595
So yeah, I think this is really an important part.

883
01:03:21,235 --> 01:03:24,995
And that's where I think B.10 is helping a lot here.

884
01:03:26,655 --> 01:03:33,955
So, yeah, so I think this is definitely where we should be going

885
01:03:33,955 --> 01:03:35,395
and what we should target.

886
01:03:35,935 --> 01:03:40,975
And for the node runner as well, if you try now,

887
01:03:41,155 --> 01:03:44,635
if you've been inspired to go out and start running your own node,

888
01:03:45,035 --> 01:03:48,895
then look across the different options that are available to you.

889
01:03:48,895 --> 01:03:54,995
there are three or four now off the shelf or you can start building your own one if you're

890
01:03:54,995 --> 01:03:59,375
technically sound enough to do that or want to learn there's plenty of videos out there on

891
01:03:59,375 --> 01:04:04,515
youtube how to do that now there's no excuse the barrier to entry to running a node is very very

892
01:04:04,515 --> 01:04:11,335
low but when you start doing that initial block download do you know what percentage you get to

893
01:04:11,335 --> 01:04:18,255
before it just like hits the wall yeah it's quite high actually no it's quite high but then

894
01:04:18,255 --> 01:04:21,655
when you arrive to 2023, I think.

895
01:04:21,995 --> 01:04:22,235
Yep.

896
01:04:22,495 --> 01:04:25,255
When they start to green down the text for it.

897
01:04:25,755 --> 01:04:27,835
So you can start doing the initial block download,

898
01:04:27,995 --> 01:04:30,635
syncing up your node, everything's going fine.

899
01:04:30,735 --> 01:04:32,295
And boom, you get to February 2023

900
01:04:32,295 --> 01:04:34,075
and it just puts the brake on.

901
01:04:34,575 --> 01:04:37,275
And then it just grinds for days,

902
01:04:37,715 --> 01:04:39,655
just syncing all that data.

903
01:04:39,775 --> 01:04:41,395
And that data, my friends,

904
01:04:41,995 --> 01:04:43,855
are ordinals, runes, inscriptions,

905
01:04:44,515 --> 01:04:45,675
spam in air quotes,

906
01:04:45,755 --> 01:04:46,955
however you want to define that.

907
01:04:46,955 --> 01:04:48,095
It's different for everybody.

908
01:04:48,255 --> 01:04:55,935
Obviously, we've had years of defining spam, non-monetary financial transactions, basically, any of those.

909
01:04:56,155 --> 01:04:57,575
And that grinds to a halt.

910
01:04:57,575 --> 01:05:06,795
And then people like myself who had a one terabyte SSD storing all of that, I've now had to go and buy a four terabyte SSD and clone that across.

911
01:05:06,975 --> 01:05:09,235
This is this incurs a time cost.

912
01:05:09,315 --> 01:05:10,595
This incurs real cost.

913
01:05:11,215 --> 01:05:16,455
You know, this this isn't it cannot be hand waved away again.

914
01:05:16,455 --> 01:05:22,375
Like, you know, this is affecting individuals at the node level.

915
01:05:22,455 --> 01:05:28,055
And it's the nodes that are arguably the most important part of this whole thing.

916
01:05:28,595 --> 01:05:33,955
Exactly. Agree. I mean, you have to be quite motivated nowadays to run a node,

917
01:05:34,275 --> 01:05:38,835
because you have to wait these two weeks or one week more.

918
01:05:39,235 --> 01:05:44,955
So if we play that out, so if BIP 110 isn't taken up and spam galore,

919
01:05:44,955 --> 01:06:01,880
four megabyte blocks for the next five years imagine downloading imagine coming to bitcoin in 2029 and well i gonna run a node I on board with all this Oh shit This is going to take months and months and months

920
01:06:02,100 --> 01:06:12,560
And I need ridiculous amounts of storage to store all of this non-monetary financial transaction stuff.

921
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:14,960
Yeah, that's exactly.

922
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,840
So making Bit.10 even more important.

923
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:19,920
I think

924
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,380
alright so you're in Finland

925
01:06:23,380 --> 01:06:25,080
are you going to be at BTC

926
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,300
Helsinki? Yes I

927
01:06:27,300 --> 01:06:28,180
plan to be

928
01:06:28,180 --> 01:06:30,820
in September? Yeah

929
01:06:30,820 --> 01:06:35,580
my goodness that's going to be

930
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:37,360
either plain sailing and

931
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:38,980
everything's fine bro or

932
01:06:38,980 --> 01:06:41,120
we're going to be in that period of just

933
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:42,940
complete and utter total confusion

934
01:06:42,940 --> 01:06:44,180
correct

935
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:47,020
I believe it will be a bright

936
01:06:47,020 --> 01:06:48,420
time

937
01:06:48,420 --> 01:06:55,000
so well fingers crossed and uh and thank you for coming on thank you for your work thank you for

938
01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:01,200
entering into uh the bitcoin space you said at the beginning here you've you come in around 2023

939
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:08,420
uh so this has been your journey like uh you know this whole spam thing you've seen it very very

940
01:07:08,420 --> 01:07:14,100
close up uh well done for sticking around well done for digging into it and don't listen to

941
01:07:14,100 --> 01:07:19,240
anyone that's going to tell you, oh, you're valid, you're an invalid contributor because you haven't

942
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:24,220
been around since 2015 and you didn't go through the block size wars. Don't listen to any of that

943
01:07:24,220 --> 01:07:29,600
bullshit. That's anti-Bitcoiner. Everybody is welcome to this permissionless network and to

944
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:34,520
bring their value and their skill sets. And you've bought yours in an analytical way. And I hope that

945
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:39,660
this conversation is going to go a long way to help people either go out there, be inspired to

946
01:07:39,660 --> 01:07:43,440
run a node or take a closer look at all of this,

947
01:07:43,580 --> 01:07:44,540
read through your articles,

948
01:07:45,100 --> 01:07:50,040
look for other educational content because this is something that isn't going

949
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,840
away and something that needs delving into.

950
01:07:54,140 --> 01:07:55,840
And you've done a great job with that so far.

951
01:07:55,980 --> 01:07:57,640
And I look forward to issue number 12.

952
01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:58,440
When are you dropping that?

953
01:07:58,780 --> 01:08:00,240
It's coming on Monday.

954
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:01,160
All right.

955
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:02,620
I look forward to that.

956
01:08:03,340 --> 01:08:04,220
Any spoilers?

957
01:08:05,860 --> 01:08:06,300
Yeah,

958
01:08:06,580 --> 01:08:07,360
if you want,

959
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:14,520
It's going to be about the different entities that make Bitcoin

960
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,120
and what are their roles.

961
01:08:18,300 --> 01:08:18,780
Excellent.

962
01:08:19,500 --> 01:08:19,820
Yes.

963
01:08:19,900 --> 01:08:20,180
All right.

964
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,480
Well, I look forward to seeing you in Helsinki in September

965
01:08:23,480 --> 01:08:25,860
and reading more of your work, Renaud.

966
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,340
Thank you so much for coming on.

967
01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:31,100
I'll leave the way for people to contact you, your Twitter.

968
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,260
I know you're still navigating NOSTA,

969
01:08:35,260 --> 01:08:37,040
but I'll put your end pub in there as well.

970
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:44,080
the newsletter bitcoin portal so people can come and find you excellent thanks daniel thank you

971
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:52,960
mate take care bye thank you everybody for listening and if you feel compelled to share

972
01:08:52,960 --> 01:09:01,120
this around please go ahead and do that because more education on this topic the better uh there

973
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:09,080
are still so many so many emotions tied up in this and why wouldn't there be you know that

974
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:15,760
we're talking about money here at the end of the day and that is the most emotional topic ever for

975
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:21,280
our species to engage in so don't be surprised when you log into your Twitter account and you

976
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:29,520
see people with very strong opinions on one side or the other side and it is

977
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:36,520
you can get trapped in the fog of war I suppose would be the best analogy to

978
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:41,200
use here so it is important to listen to like I said here in the beginning at the

979
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:45,880
end of the show it's important to look at new new perspectives new voices and

980
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:50,080
as much as the narrative of you haven't been around you didn't go through the

981
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:55,640
block size wars, you've got nothing to contribute, you've never done anything, you know, to,

982
01:09:56,340 --> 01:10:01,760
what was some of the other narratives, you've never contributed in any meaningful way,

983
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:06,320
you've never bought any kind of economic value into the space, and all this kind of stuff

984
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:14,820
that people are saying is, that's baggage, you know, so if you flip that narrative on its head,

985
01:10:14,820 --> 01:10:18,020
we've got a guy here

986
01:10:18,020 --> 01:10:21,180
who's had like a 25, 30 year career

987
01:10:21,180 --> 01:10:23,500
in his telecommunications business

988
01:10:23,500 --> 01:10:25,940
who has come to Bitcoin

989
01:10:25,940 --> 01:10:27,980
2023

990
01:10:27,980 --> 01:10:30,460
the only world he's known

991
01:10:30,460 --> 01:10:31,880
is the world of spam

992
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:34,400
so he doesn't have the baggage

993
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:38,540
so like isn't that actually

994
01:10:38,540 --> 01:10:41,600
a really interesting point of view

995
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,700
to embrace as well

996
01:10:43,700 --> 01:10:50,580
somebody that's coming in with and go to the bitcoin portal.com like go see what you've built

997
01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:57,400
like this isn't a fly-by-nighter and uh i hope the the conversation here has gone a long way to

998
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:02,860
like i said there at the end inspire you to run a node we'll look into it there's a popular meme

999
01:11:02,860 --> 01:11:10,400
in the bitcoin space it's called code is law and that comes from a book written by lawrence lessig

1000
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:17,520
back in 1999 titled code and that meme has been around for a very very long time gets thrown around

1001
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:25,780
in bitcoin space a lot i'd like to offer up that node is law because if you're running your node

1002
01:11:25,780 --> 01:11:31,320
then you get to decide not only do you get to decide what hardware you use like you can go out

1003
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:37,040
there find the best one that you think is going to suit you but then what software what implement

1004
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:44,320
implementation you get to use and if you've engaged in the conversation either on Noster or

1005
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:55,300
Twitter about BIP110 without even running a node yeah it's look in the mirror time so that is I

1006
01:11:55,300 --> 01:12:01,760
think the defining point here node is law and what Renault is going to drop on Monday at time of

1007
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:07,580
recording this is excuse me at time of release 21st of February he's going to be dropping his

1008
01:12:07,580 --> 01:12:11,880
next article on the 23rd of February so go and check that out where he said here he's going to

1009
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:17,520
be talking about all of the different parts of the Bitcoin ecosystem and how they all intertwine

1010
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:23,700
with each other if you want to go and learn more about that Simon Dixon did a recent video I think

1011
01:12:23,700 --> 01:12:28,920
it's in around part three of his recent video so you can just go follow Simon Dixon hard talk

1012
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:34,600
he's been really delving into it as well but like the the main point here the biggest takeaway I want

1013
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:41,920
everybody to take from this is let's just get down to business start educating ourselves stop

1014
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:51,160
following the narratives stop choosing a side blindly just because so-and-so has said one thing

1015
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:58,620
don't be led in any direction proof of work do your own research figure out what you

1016
01:12:58,620 --> 01:13:07,780
believe aligns with you best and go act like that that's what bitcoin is that is purely what bitcoin

1017
01:13:07,780 --> 01:13:18,140
is and uh i just hope everybody realizes the the existential threat of monopolies in bitcoin mining

1018
01:13:18,140 --> 01:13:26,420
because this isn't a joke like i said in the interview this playbook of building monopolies

1019
01:13:26,420 --> 01:13:32,500
has been followed to the T for over a century.

1020
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:34,680
Monopolies will be built.

1021
01:13:35,820 --> 01:13:36,900
Governments will be lobbied.

1022
01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:39,160
Regulations will come down the pike.

1023
01:13:39,620 --> 01:13:44,940
And that is going to be incredibly difficult to ever break again.

1024
01:13:45,100 --> 01:13:47,760
So please take that point very, very seriously

1025
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,700
and think about that very, very deeply.

1026
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,200
Thank you, everybody, for listening.

1027
01:13:52,860 --> 01:13:53,720
Have a great weekend.

1028
01:13:53,940 --> 01:13:54,900
I'll catch you on the next show.

1029
01:13:56,420 --> 01:14:26,400
Thank you.