1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,840 Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast. 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:17,560 This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can 3 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:24,540 around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean 4 00:00:24,540 --> 00:00:29,560 for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so 5 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:36,440 much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast. 6 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:44,620 Joining me today is Nelson Inno. He is an El Salvadoran who was living abroad and has been 7 00:00:44,620 --> 00:00:52,320 brought back home by the call of Bitcoin and what is happening in his home country. Really love 8 00:00:52,320 --> 00:01:00,180 this story from nelson he's an entrepreneur he started a company called we spark which helps 9 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:10,280 innovative design and integration of ai for anything from a government to a private company 10 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:16,980 and everything in between but he's got obviously a big bitcoin stance on this with his founder 11 00:01:16,980 --> 00:01:20,980 and lots of education around Bitcoin. 12 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,640 And WeSpark have helped co-design another Bitcoin diploma, 13 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,760 Bitcoin Diploma 2.0, 14 00:01:29,140 --> 00:01:32,160 in collaboration with El Salvador's National Bitcoin Office 15 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:38,680 and is now actively supporting its national rollout into public schools. 16 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,460 So another educational push coming out of El Salvador. 17 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:46,000 Obviously, first up you had Mi Prima Bitcoin, 18 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,560 which is now in English my first Bitcoin as that's going more global. 19 00:01:51,420 --> 00:01:58,980 And great to see that someone and something is going to be there to help fill the void 20 00:01:58,980 --> 00:02:06,980 if there is any felt as they do more of a global push for my first Bitcoin. 21 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,120 If you want to be involved in Bitcoin education at all, please keep an ear out. 22 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:29,040 I've got an interview coming up with James Dewar, who went through the My First Bitcoin diploma here in the UK with Huxley, who is like the chief node operator, I suppose, of My First Bitcoin because you've got nodes all around the world. 23 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,240 And it's a great episode. 24 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,300 Please focus on education. 25 00:02:34,020 --> 00:02:36,280 This is what Nelson is focusing on. 26 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:41,420 He's got a great book as well called Unstable Innovation, doing some incredible work. 27 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,840 And I hope you enjoy this episode. 28 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:46,780 Before I give a shout out to the show sponsors, 29 00:02:46,780 --> 00:02:50,360 I just wanted to say thank you to everybody listening over on FountainUp. 30 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,180 Last episode, if you remember, I did a shout out, 31 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,980 read out all of the boosts and the messages that have been coming in over the last couple of episodes. 32 00:02:58,300 --> 00:02:59,520 So I'll do that again now. 33 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:02,500 And that's finished. 34 00:03:03,060 --> 00:03:06,800 The last episode was released with Jake Woodhouse, 35 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,000 who is another Bitcoin podcaster, 36 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:16,620 who is very active like myself over on Noster and is very much entrenched in the value for value 37 00:03:16,620 --> 00:03:23,100 universe podverse if you will on Fountain app and we put together a two-hour long conversation 38 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:29,940 he talks about his personal experience with buying a house and then trying to get the 39 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:38,620 renovations undergo during a massive drawdown home birth exorcism and reincarnation 40 00:03:38,620 --> 00:03:45,700 get over and listen and drop your messages he would love to connect as uh as would i as well 41 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:51,660 so fountain app is the place to start listening to the podcasts big shout out as always to relay 42 00:03:51,660 --> 00:03:58,040 r-e-l-a-i dot c-h forward slash bitten that's the best place for you across europe to go start 43 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:03,140 stacking a sat get that help you need if you need the hand holding they have a private client 44 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:09,140 division there and they're going to help you or high net worth individuals or business owners 45 00:04:09,140 --> 00:04:14,120 get onto a bitcoin standard you can download the app be stacking up to a thousand swiss or 46 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,560 equivalent per day if you've got that kind of appetite if not just set it and forget it make 47 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,300 sure you're self-custody there's a wallet built into the app your own wallet so get your pen and 48 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:31,980 paper ready you will need to write down those c phrases and on that on that topic uh bitbox 49 00:04:31,980 --> 00:04:39,620 bitbox02 or the bitbox nova is a bitcoin only hardware edition i put out a little tongue-in-cheek 50 00:04:39,620 --> 00:04:48,140 tweet the other day kind of uh you know having um pointing my nose up a little bit at all of the 51 00:04:48,140 --> 00:04:52,320 kind of treasury companies and different yield products and this that and the other thing that 52 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:59,100 coming onto the market it was breaking excited to announce dollar scyb the easiest way to get 53 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:06,580 yield on your Bitcoin. One, make a one-time investment of $150 into SCYB. Two, sit back and 54 00:05:06,580 --> 00:05:11,020 relax and enjoy an unrivaled yield on your Bitcoin over the next four to eight years and beyond. 55 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:17,020 No small print, no hidden fees, no money manager to deal with. It's simple. Head over to bitbox.swiss 56 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:24,440 forward slash bitten and make your investment today. SCYB stands for self-custody your Bitcoin. 57 00:05:24,940 --> 00:05:25,920 Please go do that. 58 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:27,940 Go join Club Orange. 59 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,660 I'd love to see you on the app over there. 60 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,900 There's almost 20,000 Bitcoiners around the world 61 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:33,780 and all the events you could ever imagine. 62 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,200 Go find your people. 63 00:05:35,620 --> 00:05:36,420 Get to a conference. 64 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,200 We've got Ireland in May. 65 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,320 We've got BTC Prague in June. 66 00:05:40,460 --> 00:05:43,320 And we've got BTC Hell in September. 67 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,040 All links on the show notes. 68 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:48,600 All codes BITTEN, B-I-T-T-E-N, 69 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:50,020 to get you 10% discount. 70 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,620 Meanwhile, here is Nelson. 71 00:05:52,620 --> 00:05:59,420 all right nelson good to have you here author of unstable innovation a great little book if no 72 00:05:59,420 --> 00:06:06,060 one's heard of it go pick it up it's brilliant i loved it and we'll get into it um and what i love 73 00:06:06,060 --> 00:06:13,860 as well is finding new bitcoiners and having them on the show and uh getting other people exposed 74 00:06:13,860 --> 00:06:19,340 to your work have you been on other pods would anyone have heard of you before on other interviews 75 00:06:19,340 --> 00:06:27,740 um yes but but it's been quite scattered over time to be honest the past year and a half we have been 76 00:06:27,740 --> 00:06:35,880 mostly building and and yeah there's a time for uh coming out and expressing things you know there's 77 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:41,740 like a message to share but we have been building the past one and a half years different uh bitcoin 78 00:06:41,740 --> 00:06:48,880 products bitcoin infrastructure and what what now is kind of like going around it's not being 79 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:54,420 interviews yet. I have one next week with the Salvadoran government, but we just published 80 00:06:54,420 --> 00:07:02,700 the Bitcoin Diploma 2.0 to better with the Bitcoin office. So we are responsible to design and now to 81 00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:08,100 continue operating Bitcoin and financial education for an entire nation. And that is really exciting. 82 00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:14,660 So yeah, I kind of feel that, you know, it took some months to plan this, right? And I'm very 83 00:07:14,660 --> 00:07:20,200 honored to be here thank you for the invite uh but everything feels that in life just happens 84 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:26,520 what it needs to happen so sometimes you're going through a moment and you ask yourself like why me 85 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:35,860 why now but you look back a few years later and you're like okay that's why and why is so i i used 86 00:07:35,860 --> 00:07:43,480 to like try and piece together with people certain things have happened in our past lives uh not past 87 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:52,980 lives, excuse me, our careers or maybe childhood, there will be a point where something kind 88 00:07:52,980 --> 00:07:58,860 of set you up to understand Bitcoin once it was presented to you in a certain way. 89 00:07:59,220 --> 00:08:05,580 Do you remember, was there a point in your young life that kind of predisposed you to 90 00:08:05,580 --> 00:08:07,620 understanding one certain aspect of Bitcoin? 91 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:16,300 so there are two things i guess uh one maybe the most important one has to do with with emotions 92 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:24,300 so um from my mom i learned to you know try to you know like not not get in conflict with people 93 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:30,700 and and basically admit when i'm wrong so i'm one of those persons that says sorry very fast 94 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:35,620 more often than not i say sorry too fast people like i'm not ready to forgive you 95 00:08:35,620 --> 00:08:43,380 right but uh that also is shared with the ability and and and this pre-requirement of 96 00:08:43,380 --> 00:08:47,480 truly understanding bitcoin where you just need to think for a second like well 97 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:55,220 maybe my view on the world is wrong uh maybe my view on bitcoin is wrong so that definitely plays 98 00:08:55,220 --> 00:09:02,620 a role and the second one was that um and i don't know when this happened and a neighbor went to the 99 00:09:02,620 --> 00:09:07,520 doctor and confirm this but I basically think I might have ADHD or something like that I have some 100 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:14,160 like lack of attention and sometimes I get obsessed with topics and I can work for 20 hours straight 101 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:22,040 non-stop and then I just start remembering okay I need to go to the bathroom or something like 102 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:27,180 this or I need to eat so I forget everything what is essential just not breathing but I just get 103 00:09:27,180 --> 00:09:34,760 obsessed with things and yeah I remember that one really good friend of mine called Abdul from Egypt 104 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:43,180 gave me a book The Bicon Standard and it took me six months to open it the moment that I open it I 105 00:09:43,180 --> 00:09:48,740 just obsessed with it I went through all of it I started like like everyone else going deep down 106 00:09:48,740 --> 00:09:55,720 the rabbit hole reading everything what I could listen to everything what I could but but yeah 107 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:04,640 I just think that this ability to get obsessed about things that are interesting is what not only helped me discover Bitcoin, 108 00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:09,400 because that finally happened, not so randomly, it was due to Nayib Bukele. 109 00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:11,460 So he's my president, I'm Salvadoran. 110 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:18,020 And when he announced that, I was thinking like, okay, working innovation, maybe need to explore this. 111 00:10:18,020 --> 00:10:32,006 So all in all I believe that if I wouldn be so obsessed with things from time to time maybe I would have explored Bitcoin a little bit but I would have never just said like oh I really want to understand this 112 00:10:32,006 --> 00:10:33,766 And then I need to understand this. 113 00:10:33,846 --> 00:10:35,346 And then it's like, I need to know more. 114 00:10:36,666 --> 00:10:40,406 But maybe that's really important for anyone that listens. 115 00:10:41,146 --> 00:10:44,306 Super honest, I went into Bitcoin just like anyone else, 116 00:10:44,346 --> 00:10:46,046 thinking like, wow, I'm going to make lots of money. 117 00:10:46,046 --> 00:10:55,106 right so it was this uh greed uh what what pushed me in then second and i mentioned it 118 00:10:55,106 --> 00:11:00,406 briefly just just before that that we met in madeira but it was at the madeira event that i 119 00:11:00,406 --> 00:11:07,646 just saw something that i never experienced before so i've been to several was madeira the 120 00:11:07,646 --> 00:11:15,886 first time you've been around like uh bitcoiners on mass and seen and yes and when it's bitcoin 121 00:11:15,886 --> 00:11:18,986 only because I've been in other events that were not Bitcoin only. 122 00:11:19,766 --> 00:11:22,506 And the difference was day and night. 123 00:11:22,506 --> 00:11:28,326 In the other places, everyone is chilling and anxious and hyping and shouting. 124 00:11:29,346 --> 00:11:33,466 And then I just, you know, like the setting, it was so beautiful. 125 00:11:33,706 --> 00:11:36,666 And shout out to Andre for organizing that on his entire team. 126 00:11:36,746 --> 00:11:38,326 It was just incredible place. 127 00:11:39,286 --> 00:11:42,566 But you arrive, you have the zone, you have the sea. 128 00:11:43,666 --> 00:11:45,386 It's an island for people out there. 129 00:11:45,886 --> 00:11:48,286 And then everyone is so relaxed. 130 00:11:48,946 --> 00:11:50,086 There's real good food. 131 00:11:50,246 --> 00:11:51,666 There's real good conversations. 132 00:11:52,066 --> 00:11:53,186 Everyone is so kind. 133 00:11:53,306 --> 00:11:54,746 There are children running around. 134 00:11:54,946 --> 00:11:56,126 There are a lot of people with babies. 135 00:11:56,446 --> 00:11:58,826 There's a key stage in fact. 136 00:11:59,266 --> 00:12:00,646 This is like open sourcing. 137 00:12:00,946 --> 00:12:05,066 So it was so much input at the same time. 138 00:12:05,326 --> 00:12:10,946 And when I say like some input, I mean that input that enters without you thinking about it. 139 00:12:11,926 --> 00:12:15,106 But all in all, I just felt, wow, this feels right. 140 00:12:15,106 --> 00:12:22,366 there's something around everyone here in this culture that I truly like and I want to pursue it. 141 00:12:23,046 --> 00:12:27,346 So, and then through understanding more and more about Bitcoin, 142 00:12:28,266 --> 00:12:32,246 I basically heard about Nayib Bukele and Bitcoin Law in El Salvador. 143 00:12:32,446 --> 00:12:33,726 I said, like, I'm going to learn about this. 144 00:12:34,266 --> 00:12:37,266 And like many others, I started on the wrong end. 145 00:12:37,826 --> 00:12:45,026 And it took me about two years to come to the conclusion that I believe that eventually anyone has to push 146 00:12:45,026 --> 00:12:47,906 a lot of time in, yeah, we were right. 147 00:12:47,986 --> 00:12:48,946 And that's like Bitcoin only. 148 00:12:49,966 --> 00:12:54,506 And then it was that phase, you know, like you went from grid to, okay, these people are 149 00:12:54,506 --> 00:12:55,006 super cool. 150 00:12:55,146 --> 00:12:56,206 I want to be like them too. 151 00:12:56,886 --> 00:13:02,566 Wow, this is something really nice, but it only works as long as people are actively 152 00:13:02,566 --> 00:13:03,806 doing it. 153 00:13:03,806 --> 00:13:09,146 And that's what convinced me to start volunteering and eventually volunteering led me to meet 154 00:13:09,146 --> 00:13:09,826 the right people. 155 00:13:10,146 --> 00:13:12,146 Like my partner, Adam Lilly at WeSpark. 156 00:13:12,146 --> 00:13:21,066 and now we are really truly building infrastructure education services that help with Bitcoin adoption. 157 00:13:21,426 --> 00:13:24,726 So it's kind of like the short story about it. 158 00:13:25,106 --> 00:13:26,546 And it all has to... 159 00:13:26,546 --> 00:13:30,626 So you are El Salvadorian? You live in El Salvador? You've lived abroad? 160 00:13:30,966 --> 00:13:32,186 Like what's happened there? 161 00:13:32,186 --> 00:13:36,326 So I was born and raised in El Salvador when I was 18 years old. 162 00:13:36,586 --> 00:13:41,366 I moved to Germany and I felt like I'm going to stay here forever, never coming back. 163 00:13:42,146 --> 00:13:47,326 You might have heard before, but El Salvador was a very dangerous place. 164 00:13:47,326 --> 00:13:51,326 In fact, it was the most dangerous country in the world during the 2010s. 165 00:13:52,906 --> 00:13:58,666 And yeah, there were even countries at war that were less dangerous than El Salvador. 166 00:13:59,526 --> 00:14:07,506 So back then, it seemed almost impossible for me to think about coming back here. 167 00:14:07,726 --> 00:14:09,126 But so much has changed. 168 00:14:09,366 --> 00:14:11,646 The El Salvador that I left doesn't exist anymore. 169 00:14:11,646 --> 00:14:16,606 the germany that i decided to go to doesn't exist anymore so the two countries are very very 170 00:14:16,606 --> 00:14:23,506 different and around one and a half years ago after 15 years in germany i just noticed well 171 00:14:23,506 --> 00:14:29,446 things have changed and germany is like like flopping slowly and on sabato is just entering that 172 00:14:29,446 --> 00:14:34,866 that exponential curve at the beginning of anything that is compounding right you don't 173 00:14:34,866 --> 00:14:39,666 see it so well but as an entrepreneur you have a view of the world that kind of like shows you what 174 00:14:39,666 --> 00:14:46,606 what's what's what's ahead so yeah I decided to come back and it's been the the best decision 175 00:14:46,606 --> 00:14:54,606 my entire life so far that's amazing so what's uh what were you doing in Germany what was the 176 00:14:54,606 --> 00:15:02,066 the career that you were building over there so you know back then I was a a kid I went to the 177 00:15:02,066 --> 00:15:06,266 school that my parents sent me they sent me to the to the German school it's a private school but 178 00:15:06,266 --> 00:15:11,126 that was the only private school that they could afford because it was subsidized 80 percent by 179 00:15:11,126 --> 00:15:15,346 by the German government so I learned German I went through that torch 180 00:15:15,346 --> 00:15:26,326 then I learned English and when I was graduating I basically had the the choice to to to study in 181 00:15:26,326 --> 00:15:32,166 Germany and I I took it I was so excited about it I went and studied engineer because my father 182 00:15:32,166 --> 00:15:34,926 is an engineer, but maybe also have played a role. 183 00:15:35,166 --> 00:15:39,446 It helps you understand Bitcoin a little bit on the technical side, even though that's 184 00:15:39,446 --> 00:15:41,126 not what caught me specifically. 185 00:15:41,686 --> 00:15:46,166 It was more like what it could do for the people what caught me. 186 00:15:46,246 --> 00:15:49,046 And maybe the little Bitcoin book plays a big role there. 187 00:15:49,846 --> 00:15:52,306 But going back to that, I was just like a normal kid. 188 00:15:52,366 --> 00:15:53,446 I was listening to my parents. 189 00:15:53,566 --> 00:15:54,106 I still do. 190 00:15:54,226 --> 00:15:55,026 Now I just filter. 191 00:15:55,026 --> 00:16:03,506 um but I went there I studied and eventually um I started working in airlines I worked in airlines 192 00:16:03,506 --> 00:16:10,126 for like four years I worked in other companies IT uh started with an internship at Siemens in 193 00:16:10,126 --> 00:16:17,426 manufacturing then Microsoft so I've been all around all around the place you know just testing 194 00:16:17,426 --> 00:16:22,626 stuff going to different departments but what really caught my attention was when I first 195 00:16:22,626 --> 00:16:28,746 started working in innovation. So when I was back in Lufthansa, I was building these innovation 196 00:16:28,746 --> 00:16:33,786 departments and strategies for multiple Lufthansa groups. Lufthansa is a German airline for the 197 00:16:33,786 --> 00:16:37,686 ones that don't know, but I was building these innovation departments and strategies for the 198 00:16:37,686 --> 00:16:46,446 entire company, even like physical innovation hubs or rooms, innovation spaces. So I believe 199 00:16:46,446 --> 00:16:51,106 all those things prepare me to that moment 200 00:16:51,106 --> 00:16:52,426 where I first heard about Bitcoin. 201 00:16:52,606 --> 00:16:54,606 I just felt that it was my responsibility, 202 00:16:55,326 --> 00:16:57,546 both as a Salvadorian and someone who is supposed 203 00:16:57,546 --> 00:17:00,126 to be on the innovation side 204 00:17:00,126 --> 00:17:01,926 and exploring what's going on in the world 205 00:17:01,926 --> 00:17:05,186 to at least understand Bitcoin at a very basic level. 206 00:17:05,866 --> 00:17:09,806 So I'm expecting maybe to go four to 10 hours into it, 207 00:17:09,966 --> 00:17:11,286 maybe a day or two. 208 00:17:11,606 --> 00:17:12,566 Then I just knew it's like, 209 00:17:12,646 --> 00:17:14,866 okay, I'm going to be exploring this for some weeks 210 00:17:14,866 --> 00:17:20,566 and weeks turn into months and months turn into years and here we are Daniel. 211 00:17:21,586 --> 00:17:27,886 So you talk about innovation that that's the name of the book unstable innovation the fragile state 212 00:17:27,886 --> 00:17:35,466 most will never understand so what are you trying to grab the reader's attention with yeah so I mean 213 00:17:35,466 --> 00:17:42,186 there's some things about about the book and I will spoil one of them and you know and it has 214 00:17:42,186 --> 00:17:46,806 to be with Bitcoin. But at first, I just want people to, you know, read some sort of statement 215 00:17:46,806 --> 00:17:51,186 that the clinic bothers them. It's like, what? What do you mean that I will not understand? I'm 216 00:17:51,186 --> 00:17:55,806 not most people. I will grab that book. But that's for the people that read the subtitle. A lot of 217 00:17:55,806 --> 00:18:05,326 people just pick a book based on how it looks. And yeah, on stable innovation, what I try to 218 00:18:05,326 --> 00:18:12,906 express there is that the natural like the natural atmosphere or stage where innovation happens is 219 00:18:12,906 --> 00:18:19,526 when when things are unstable where there are some problems to solve um so yeah it's i don't know it's 220 00:18:19,526 --> 00:18:25,666 it's very it's very crazy because that name just came is what one of like the first like two three 221 00:18:25,666 --> 00:18:31,386 names that i thought about the book and it just it just made sense right away so i started with 222 00:18:31,386 --> 00:18:36,326 a cover and then when I had the cover I said like okay now I will write this book this is really 223 00:18:36,326 --> 00:18:40,306 exciting it was the second time that I tried to write a book about innovation the first time was 224 00:18:40,306 --> 00:18:46,246 like four years earlier and I wrote 10 pages and then I didn't know what to do next so today I just 225 00:18:46,246 --> 00:18:53,686 know that I had to learn more and to yeah yeah just have more experience and something like a 226 00:18:53,686 --> 00:18:58,686 clear message to tell and that's that's what happened so that's why you have the you know the 227 00:18:58,686 --> 00:19:04,726 the guy with the helmet that's a friend of mine with all the whiz band gadgets on the top uh yeah 228 00:19:04,726 --> 00:19:09,406 exactly yeah and that's like a metaphor that innovation is all about mindset i mean if you 229 00:19:09,406 --> 00:19:14,266 have some sort of innovation gadget you don't have like a watch or some innovation boots or 230 00:19:14,266 --> 00:19:19,966 an innovation pack a backpack it's an innovation helmet because you know if you change your head 231 00:19:19,966 --> 00:19:26,226 then you change everything else so um that that's what i was trying to show both from the title the 232 00:19:26,226 --> 00:19:34,486 subtitle and the image. When I was working just on innovation topics before, I was a little bit 233 00:19:34,486 --> 00:19:39,766 angry when I started the company because I saw so many consultants talking about this topic and 234 00:19:39,766 --> 00:19:45,486 I see a lot of blah blah and no actions and I feel like well first of all this is more about 235 00:19:45,486 --> 00:19:51,346 culture than anything else. I started you know instead of focusing on certain certifications 236 00:19:51,346 --> 00:19:55,866 or processes I started checking okay what do people think and then you know I will go to the 237 00:19:55,866 --> 00:20:02,946 companies and basically tell them all sum up well you say that you want to do innovation but 238 00:20:02,946 --> 00:20:09,866 your employees are scared of it because if they do something and they fail they feel that you 239 00:20:09,866 --> 00:20:17,666 will fire them so let's start there and then we can talk any anything else right so yeah and those 240 00:20:17,666 --> 00:20:23,306 are some of the things that i uh touch in the book but um i mean as you know it's more about 241 00:20:23,306 --> 00:20:29,326 philosophy at the end so because i believe that philosophy is what gives you a structure in life 242 00:20:29,326 --> 00:20:36,146 on how to act and react to things that are going on and how you like how how you perceive that is 243 00:20:36,146 --> 00:20:43,246 kind of like that mindset behind yeah and i'm hoping that you know the entrepreneurs of tomorrow 244 00:20:43,246 --> 00:20:54,772 are going to pick up this kind of book like this is the kind of book that somebody going to be drawn to if they got an inquisitive mind and they looking to solve problems and they want that little impetus 245 00:20:55,072 --> 00:21:05,772 And then you round it out with the philosophy and mix that with the Bitcoin ethos and sound money and talking about how that is an innovation in itself. 246 00:21:06,512 --> 00:21:12,952 Yeah. So I was inspired by Jeff Booth, The Price of Tomorrow. 247 00:21:12,952 --> 00:21:20,772 so if you think about it you analyze this is kind of like a the price of tomorrow just simpler and 248 00:21:20,772 --> 00:21:26,992 a little bit more open so I enjoy the price of tomorrow a lot but I feel that you there's a lot 249 00:21:26,992 --> 00:21:34,512 of pre-requirements to it it's very technical it can go into into details quite fast there are some 250 00:21:34,512 --> 00:21:38,472 topics that are lightly touched but you need to know a lot I mean you need to have spent maybe 251 00:21:38,472 --> 00:21:42,132 like 20, 40 hours learning about those topics to truly appreciate. 252 00:21:42,492 --> 00:21:43,812 If you do, it's awesome. 253 00:21:43,892 --> 00:21:44,852 That's why everyone loves it. 254 00:21:44,932 --> 00:21:47,192 I love it myself. 255 00:21:48,272 --> 00:21:51,672 So I was inspired by it and I was also inspired by the little Bitcoin book. 256 00:21:51,672 --> 00:21:57,472 They make, you know, Bitcoin more understanding, like from the human side. 257 00:21:57,632 --> 00:22:00,392 It's kind of like, seems like a natural development. 258 00:22:00,732 --> 00:22:02,132 So I wanted to mix both. 259 00:22:02,512 --> 00:22:07,992 The idea of mentioning Bitcoin late in the book, first just developing this narrative 260 00:22:07,992 --> 00:22:09,232 of what's going on in the world. 261 00:22:09,332 --> 00:22:12,992 I think that the world is going to get a little bit harder 262 00:22:12,992 --> 00:22:14,472 before there's abundance. 263 00:22:15,272 --> 00:22:16,912 It's just what happens naturally 264 00:22:16,912 --> 00:22:19,132 when you have a lot of like big transitions. 265 00:22:19,772 --> 00:22:20,932 We are doing a transition. 266 00:22:21,072 --> 00:22:22,412 We are in the middle of a transition. 267 00:22:23,052 --> 00:22:25,472 And then I wanted to mix it with making things simple. 268 00:22:25,932 --> 00:22:29,252 So that's why, I mean, English is also not my first language. 269 00:22:29,252 --> 00:22:32,912 So I couldn't, even if I wanted to make it sound more complex, 270 00:22:33,012 --> 00:22:34,012 whatever, I can. 271 00:22:34,412 --> 00:22:36,772 So that was the idea, make a simple book. 272 00:22:36,772 --> 00:22:41,952 and just introduce people to some of the topics 273 00:22:41,952 --> 00:22:43,772 and the tools that they might need in the future. 274 00:22:44,352 --> 00:22:47,092 But I mean, all is made so that people 275 00:22:47,092 --> 00:22:49,172 that are feeling anxious or stressed 276 00:22:49,172 --> 00:22:51,272 or that there's too much going in the world, 277 00:22:51,872 --> 00:22:57,312 that they have just a tiny space, 278 00:22:57,432 --> 00:22:59,672 a tiny place where they can understand 279 00:22:59,672 --> 00:23:02,592 why the world seems to be moving so fast, 280 00:23:02,872 --> 00:23:05,592 why the world seems to be so stressful and so unstable. 281 00:23:05,592 --> 00:23:11,372 and just understand that that's okay and that's normal and that if you just narrow down everything 282 00:23:11,372 --> 00:23:15,432 what you're doing and you just discover those things that you really want to change or that 283 00:23:15,432 --> 00:23:24,052 or those topics that really speak to you then everything gets easier and this book in a way 284 00:23:24,052 --> 00:23:30,752 I wrote it so that people can hold me accountable for what I'm saying because I changed my entire 285 00:23:30,752 --> 00:23:40,012 life following all of that since I published the book and it's been an upgrade. 286 00:23:40,972 --> 00:23:42,472 I can say that. 287 00:23:43,492 --> 00:23:44,092 Sorry. 288 00:23:44,672 --> 00:23:49,452 There's a story in here as well, which I think people appreciate you sharing. 289 00:23:50,752 --> 00:23:58,852 Very personal about your near death experience and the moment of life that flashed between 290 00:23:58,852 --> 00:24:06,412 your eyes as you were almost at the point uh do you take uh do you want to give us that story 291 00:24:06,412 --> 00:24:13,332 exactly what happened absolutely so it's i mean it's very crazy because you know like uh 292 00:24:14,172 --> 00:24:23,152 it's just in the past about a year and a half that i that i truly became a spiritual person again 293 00:24:23,152 --> 00:24:26,092 but that story happened here in El Salvador 294 00:24:26,092 --> 00:24:27,752 so there's this 295 00:24:27,752 --> 00:24:29,532 riptides, this like 296 00:24:29,532 --> 00:24:31,852 southern currents that you find in the shores 297 00:24:31,852 --> 00:24:32,912 and the beaches in El Salvador 298 00:24:32,912 --> 00:24:35,552 and dozens of people 299 00:24:35,552 --> 00:24:38,212 die in El Salvador 300 00:24:38,212 --> 00:24:40,232 they just go swim 301 00:24:40,232 --> 00:24:42,372 the sea looks beautiful 302 00:24:42,372 --> 00:24:43,832 it looks blue 303 00:24:43,832 --> 00:24:46,192 the sun feels nice 304 00:24:46,192 --> 00:24:47,452 warm on your skin 305 00:24:47,452 --> 00:24:49,792 the water is salty of course 306 00:24:49,792 --> 00:24:51,612 and you're just enjoying there 307 00:24:51,612 --> 00:24:58,692 and without noticing you can easily just get caught in one of them and in this in this time 308 00:24:58,692 --> 00:25:04,312 a one very close friend of mine he's actually the husband of one of my best friends um 309 00:25:04,312 --> 00:25:11,132 he got caught in a in a current and we were basically batting and enjoying and jumping like 310 00:25:11,132 --> 00:25:18,152 just just just enjoying the waves right next to him maybe 30 40 meters i can recall just know that 311 00:25:18,152 --> 00:25:23,492 I could see him and I asked him like hey come here you know it's it's dangerous to be alone 312 00:25:23,492 --> 00:25:28,052 and then we continue swimming well not swimming but just like playing in the water 313 00:25:28,052 --> 00:25:34,292 at hip height and then I look again maybe a minute after and he's in the same place and I 314 00:25:34,292 --> 00:25:40,272 know instantly like okay I mean he told me he's coming but he's in the same place so something is 315 00:25:40,272 --> 00:25:51,232 wrong and the instant um yeah the instant idea that i had is that not idea but but conclusion 316 00:25:51,232 --> 00:25:57,452 was like okay he must be in a riptide so that's why he can move and it was crazy because he was 317 00:25:57,452 --> 00:26:05,272 even closer to the shore than we were so we started walking back as a group um and at some 318 00:26:05,272 --> 00:26:10,532 moment I spot that the water around two meters in front of him two meters around six feet by the way 319 00:26:10,532 --> 00:26:18,312 for the people that you don't use a metric system um yeah it just like my foot just goes very very 320 00:26:18,312 --> 00:26:25,972 quickly uh it feels like it's just there's more depth right uh it's no shallow anymore and I just 321 00:26:25,972 --> 00:26:32,352 go back I tell the others okay there's a current here uh we have to be careful let's make a line 322 00:26:32,352 --> 00:26:39,072 let's grab our hands and then we can just do this like a human chain and extend ourselves and then 323 00:26:39,072 --> 00:26:43,412 just grab his hand we put it back because we could stand right next to him like the water 324 00:26:43,412 --> 00:26:50,432 was maybe even a little bit below our hips so i mean there's nothing that could go wrong right 325 00:26:50,432 --> 00:26:57,672 and there's this this this other person was invited by my friend um i don't even remember 326 00:26:57,672 --> 00:26:59,752 his name and I have only seen him on that day 327 00:26:59,752 --> 00:27:01,612 he was the bigger 328 00:27:01,612 --> 00:27:02,032 one 329 00:27:02,032 --> 00:27:05,432 and he was the taller one as well 330 00:27:05,432 --> 00:27:07,652 and I asked him to stay in the back so that there's more 331 00:27:07,652 --> 00:27:08,272 weight in the back 332 00:27:08,272 --> 00:27:11,552 and he had very 333 00:27:11,552 --> 00:27:12,672 high time forever 334 00:27:12,672 --> 00:27:15,432 I can explain it today for 335 00:27:15,432 --> 00:27:16,792 Bitcoiners but 336 00:27:16,792 --> 00:27:19,292 he was anxious because we were 337 00:27:19,292 --> 00:27:21,512 trying maybe for a minute and our hands 338 00:27:21,512 --> 00:27:22,592 weren't like in the movies 339 00:27:22,592 --> 00:27:25,112 we were getting so close to pulling 340 00:27:25,112 --> 00:27:27,412 my friend back 341 00:27:27,672 --> 00:27:41,072 And he just got anxious. He just left the hand from the one. He went from the back to the front and said, I'm going to grab him. And he just goes in this kind of hole. 342 00:27:41,072 --> 00:27:49,112 and there's a wave and he posed the person that was there was first and suddenly all of us are in 343 00:27:49,112 --> 00:27:57,792 the river so now we are like five people um yeah drowning basically because there's there was lots 344 00:27:57,792 --> 00:28:04,612 of splashes everywhere it was it was it was crazy it was so sudden just like a minute before we were 345 00:28:04,612 --> 00:28:11,692 enjoying and then we are in a survival situation right away and none of us is like prepared for 346 00:28:11,692 --> 00:28:19,632 that in that moment so somehow the other guys go out and it's just Borja this other big guy and me 347 00:28:19,632 --> 00:28:28,092 in the riptide and it's weird because I feel that you know I feel a lot of pain I feel the pain that 348 00:28:28,092 --> 00:28:34,072 you feel in your lungs when you're just swallowing water and and then I also feel their pains like 349 00:28:34,072 --> 00:28:39,832 I'm getting hit and this is like a lot of chaos I don't know what's going on and it took a few 350 00:28:39,832 --> 00:28:45,832 seconds to figure out but this big guy who just said like okay I'm gonna play hero now 351 00:28:45,832 --> 00:28:54,272 he was he was drowning and he was drowning because he couldn't swim and yeah for for for 352 00:28:54,272 --> 00:29:02,792 for some time it was like okay we are going to die here and and it happened so fast but in a moment 353 00:29:02,792 --> 00:29:11,432 Borja was out um he was so close already maybe we we hope he'll find where it was like a where 354 00:29:11,432 --> 00:29:18,252 it was shallow water but yeah I just remember that some of me it was just him and me and and 355 00:29:18,252 --> 00:29:24,752 I had darkest the darkest thought that I ever had in my life I feel I regret just thinking about this 356 00:29:24,752 --> 00:29:30,512 and it's crazy because it's been maybe 15 years or 12 years it's been more than a decade and I 357 00:29:30,512 --> 00:29:37,252 and I regret thinking about it because for a second I thought like well I can swim so you know 358 00:29:37,252 --> 00:29:47,452 I don't have to die here and yeah I just I just felt kind of like bad about it and then he's kind 359 00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:53,172 of like hitting me in some moment and and I swallow more water and then Daniel this is the 360 00:29:53,172 --> 00:29:59,812 craziest thing and when I tell this I I think like okay am I here like a absolute crazy person 361 00:29:59,812 --> 00:30:07,832 i wasn't lost i didn't like consume any alcohol or anything else but i can tell you that i went 362 00:30:07,832 --> 00:30:16,332 away for half an hour an hour but i saw my life from the third perspective as it continued after 363 00:30:16,332 --> 00:30:22,492 i saw my way and it's crazy i was sitting with my family having dinners and the food didn't taste 364 00:30:22,492 --> 00:30:29,112 like anything no one was talking it was all like like life lost color when we met with the friends 365 00:30:29,112 --> 00:30:37,512 from from that that knew him it was it was all weird forever it i don't know it was it was so 366 00:30:37,512 --> 00:30:43,972 weird because i i went through through all those scenes and it took way way longer than the time 367 00:30:43,972 --> 00:30:51,692 that i was there so some people might might imagine it that maybe i had you know lack of oxygen 368 00:30:51,692 --> 00:30:58,532 whatever. Yeah, that's a way to explain it. But I told you it was somewhere else. 369 00:30:58,532 --> 00:31:04,452 And through that story, I just noticed that it's absolutely not worth it. You know, there is no 370 00:31:04,452 --> 00:31:24,838 dimension where I decide to swim away So I am back and I back like drowning but this time I very calm because I made a decision and the decision is like even the two of us swim out of here 371 00:31:24,838 --> 00:31:32,698 and we go back to the shore and we continue with our lives already asked for the two of us there 372 00:31:32,698 --> 00:31:35,038 And that made me so calm. 373 00:31:36,038 --> 00:31:45,378 And in that calmness, I just left him, you know, because it wasn't enough for him to have his head like this. 374 00:31:45,998 --> 00:31:49,518 He was trying to get his entire body out of the water. 375 00:31:50,618 --> 00:31:53,958 I'm talking like he would like to walk on the water if possible. 376 00:31:54,438 --> 00:31:56,878 So he would press me down and so on. 377 00:31:56,878 --> 00:32:03,858 so I was just so calm and I just knew that I need to think straight and for for a second I can be 378 00:32:03,858 --> 00:32:10,358 anxious I can be I can be stressed I just need to be calm and I just feel his legs just going 379 00:32:10,358 --> 00:32:14,958 higher and higher on my body he's pushing me down basically like standing on on me 380 00:32:14,958 --> 00:32:21,258 and at some moment I had the nicest feeling physical feeling in my life it's not pleasurable 381 00:32:21,258 --> 00:32:27,518 is just it just gave me direction for the first time i just knew what to do so clearly i just fell 382 00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:34,318 sand with within my thumbs uh within my like a like in my feet i was we were like drowning maybe 383 00:32:34,318 --> 00:32:43,318 two and a half three meters of water difficult to say that's like six nine feet so in that moment 384 00:32:43,318 --> 00:32:46,138 I just imposed myself 385 00:32:46,138 --> 00:32:47,218 went up 386 00:32:47,218 --> 00:32:49,198 got some air 387 00:32:49,198 --> 00:32:50,978 went down 388 00:32:50,978 --> 00:32:54,198 and I had the idea to just like grab him 389 00:32:54,198 --> 00:32:55,818 from the butt and walk 390 00:32:55,818 --> 00:32:59,578 because I could stand 391 00:32:59,578 --> 00:33:01,838 so and he's not that 392 00:33:01,838 --> 00:33:04,138 heavy because we are in the water and in salt water 393 00:33:04,138 --> 00:33:05,978 so I just started walking 394 00:33:05,978 --> 00:33:07,838 in the direction where I knew there was trouble 395 00:33:07,838 --> 00:33:09,158 and at some moment 396 00:33:09,158 --> 00:33:12,218 I just press him and I just 397 00:33:12,218 --> 00:33:19,798 just just feel how he's walking out and i was so calm and then i come out of the water when i go 398 00:33:19,798 --> 00:33:26,918 out of the water he's like i mean back to the surface it's like 100 meters away he went to the 399 00:33:26,918 --> 00:33:34,958 shore back to to our parents like oh it was crazy that was his reaction um but i was calm 400 00:33:34,958 --> 00:33:41,498 um for the first time i just noticed what was going around my parents and the parents from my 401 00:33:41,498 --> 00:33:46,338 friends everyone they were in the short is like going back and forth asking for help screaming 402 00:33:46,338 --> 00:33:53,978 seeing what to do and then for the first time I just hear my father say me Nelson don't swim 403 00:33:53,978 --> 00:33:57,418 against the current don't swim against the current and then in this moment I got angry 404 00:33:57,418 --> 00:34:03,618 and I decided to just swim against the current with everything what I got so I just swam out of 405 00:34:03,618 --> 00:34:11,178 it but you know like I was so calm and then I had this adrenaline it was it was it was crazy 406 00:34:11,178 --> 00:34:18,278 and it took me more than a decade to notice how much that moment meant in my life like my parents 407 00:34:18,278 --> 00:34:24,778 told me like don't talk about this ever um because I told them about it's like people will think 408 00:34:24,778 --> 00:34:31,658 you're crazy and and yeah so I didn't talk about it for most of the time but when I was writing 409 00:34:31,658 --> 00:34:38,098 the book I truly asked myself is like what is the most impactful moment of truth in my life 410 00:34:38,098 --> 00:34:44,018 what is that moment that defined who I am more than everything else and yeah couldn't lie to 411 00:34:44,018 --> 00:34:50,838 myself I had to write the the truth and it was that moment so I've done many things that define 412 00:34:50,838 --> 00:34:57,939 me like we all do but if I ask myself is what was the most important moment in my life that will 413 00:34:57,939 --> 00:35:05,578 have changed who I am entirely that that was it uh because you know you can say like well I try to 414 00:35:05,578 --> 00:35:13,478 be a good person uh some people just say i'm a good person but i said like i try to be but when 415 00:35:13,478 --> 00:35:21,818 action means that maybe you have to just sacrifice your life and so on i didn't really 416 00:35:21,818 --> 00:35:28,998 think about it i mean and i got pushed in what i call today a divine way because i'm sure i 417 00:35:28,998 --> 00:35:36,198 couldn't have come to that conclusion on my own back then um yeah so it all plays a role and that 418 00:35:36,198 --> 00:35:43,758 moment just changed changed my life and till today uh i mean nobody's perfect and definitely i'm not 419 00:35:43,758 --> 00:35:50,578 perfect i have done things that i regret again even after that but you know at least i i try to 420 00:35:50,578 --> 00:35:55,478 to be that person that is there for others and the book in a way is the same that's why the book is 421 00:35:55,478 --> 00:36:00,698 for free someone's go goes to unstableinnovation.com you can just put a fake email even 422 00:36:00,698 --> 00:36:10,018 like a temporary email download the book like zero zero sats um yeah like basically you know 423 00:36:10,018 --> 00:36:15,578 had since the moment that i wrote it i had the idea that i need to to spread this message uh 424 00:36:15,578 --> 00:36:23,638 and i knew that the book being free was part of that so yeah that's that's that's kind of like 425 00:36:23,638 --> 00:36:30,478 the background story behind it yeah no it's uh yeah sorry maybe i extended too long but no no 426 00:36:30,478 --> 00:36:39,218 you didn't you didn't and uh so was the advice to not talk about uh that moment coming from a place 427 00:36:39,218 --> 00:36:49,338 of um like worry that you would sound a bit crazy that you might have in your mind visited another 428 00:36:49,338 --> 00:36:56,138 dimension or something like that like what was the kind of rationale behind don't talk about it 429 00:36:56,138 --> 00:37:04,518 don't tell anyone and i guess i mean yeah you you're a dad right so you always want the best 430 00:37:04,518 --> 00:37:13,578 for for for your daughter um so my parents they always want the best for me and my sisters 431 00:37:13,578 --> 00:37:20,978 and I mean they have some sort of logic and they think this is the best thing to do 432 00:37:21,778 --> 00:37:27,959 you know Salvador I feel that people care more about what others say than in other countries 433 00:37:27,959 --> 00:37:34,978 it's a collectivist country in Germany people are more individual okay so those are the cultures 434 00:37:34,978 --> 00:37:43,838 that I know the best um yeah so they just they just they just told me but in a way something that 435 00:37:43,838 --> 00:37:53,138 empowered me a lot and that happened through my 20s was the yeah just the ability to not really 436 00:37:53,138 --> 00:37:58,658 think about what others are saying and just you know like live the life in in the way that I want 437 00:37:58,658 --> 00:38:01,658 because if I'm doing things for others and I don't enjoy them, 438 00:38:02,158 --> 00:38:03,378 then everyone loses. 439 00:38:04,439 --> 00:38:06,419 And if I'm doing things that I like, 440 00:38:06,558 --> 00:38:09,459 well, at least I guarantee that I'm going to enjoy my life. 441 00:38:09,578 --> 00:38:11,939 So that's the only one that we know that we have, 442 00:38:12,078 --> 00:38:12,939 at least here on earth. 443 00:38:13,358 --> 00:38:16,218 So, okay, I might as well do something that I want. 444 00:38:16,538 --> 00:38:19,198 And as long as I don't do something bad to anyone else 445 00:38:19,198 --> 00:38:23,138 and I try to support as many as I can 446 00:38:23,138 --> 00:38:24,218 and with the projects that I do, 447 00:38:24,218 --> 00:38:26,298 then, I mean, yeah. 448 00:38:28,658 --> 00:38:29,838 I was there to lose. 449 00:38:30,398 --> 00:38:32,038 So yeah, that changed a lot. 450 00:38:32,198 --> 00:38:34,838 And it got amplified by the whole Bitcoin culture 451 00:38:34,838 --> 00:38:39,738 because I started seeing everything in the system 452 00:38:39,738 --> 00:38:41,398 with new eyes. 453 00:38:42,678 --> 00:38:44,478 Now it's not just Bitcoin anymore. 454 00:38:44,478 --> 00:38:48,478 It's a life-changing path. 455 00:38:49,358 --> 00:38:51,978 And Bitcoin is just the channel. 456 00:38:52,278 --> 00:38:53,478 Bitcoin is not the end goal. 457 00:38:53,698 --> 00:38:56,618 It's what enables us to follow that path. 458 00:38:56,618 --> 00:39:03,758 so I don't know everything comes together in in a beautiful way at the end I feel when when you 459 00:39:03,758 --> 00:39:13,258 start seeing those things so it's not that I'm careless today but uh I really don't don't think 460 00:39:13,258 --> 00:39:20,798 too much like okay what's going to happen if I think that the output is is positive for for the 461 00:39:20,798 --> 00:39:27,638 people around me for the ones that are interacting with whatever we're building then yeah we just 462 00:39:27,638 --> 00:39:36,478 build it amazing you said that moment took um well brought you to spirituality i think is uh 463 00:39:36,478 --> 00:39:41,518 is what you said or something along those lines yeah it's clearly something you you still think 464 00:39:41,518 --> 00:39:51,018 about yeah so i will be very direct with this um i didn't have much spirituality i mean my 465 00:39:51,018 --> 00:39:58,558 i was raised christian catholic by my parents but yeah did i really feel something i don't know 466 00:39:58,558 --> 00:40:05,518 not really i mean not not in a relevant way it wasn't until i was 33 years old that i started 467 00:40:05,518 --> 00:40:06,459 going that route. 468 00:40:07,758 --> 00:40:09,258 Bitcoin also play a rule. 469 00:40:09,638 --> 00:40:10,459 There were two things. 470 00:40:10,558 --> 00:40:12,578 One is I had a big project 471 00:40:12,578 --> 00:40:13,919 that didn't work out. 472 00:40:14,378 --> 00:40:14,919 It was, you know, 473 00:40:14,959 --> 00:40:16,558 like not a Bitcoin only project. 474 00:40:16,718 --> 00:40:18,038 I wanted it to be Bitcoin only, 475 00:40:18,479 --> 00:40:21,398 but that failed like crazy. 476 00:40:21,398 --> 00:40:24,498 It raised all the savings 477 00:40:24,498 --> 00:40:25,939 that I had in my life 478 00:40:25,939 --> 00:40:27,258 in three months. 479 00:40:28,439 --> 00:40:29,718 We managed to grow 480 00:40:29,718 --> 00:40:31,638 this basically mini job platform 481 00:40:31,638 --> 00:40:35,398 from zero to over 110,000 users. 482 00:40:35,518 --> 00:40:43,959 in months. I was working hard 120 hours a week. So I was basically like sick in my soul, in my head, 483 00:40:44,158 --> 00:40:48,919 physically. And when that all came crashing down, there was a moment that I knew it's like, okay, 484 00:40:48,919 --> 00:40:54,798 there's some things to change. And I remember that I just went down on my knees and said like, 485 00:40:54,798 --> 00:41:02,778 God, if you're there, you know, please help me out. Just show me what to do. I cannot solve this 486 00:41:02,778 --> 00:41:10,198 on my own i you know from a business plan from from the rational part it didn't make sense how 487 00:41:10,198 --> 00:41:14,518 things happen and so on it was it must have been something different and i said like uh 488 00:41:14,518 --> 00:41:20,758 just tell me clearly because i'm a dumb person what to do and i started doing those things 489 00:41:20,758 --> 00:41:27,998 and it's crazy because they come as as thoughts sometimes randomly and it's hypothetical like 490 00:41:27,998 --> 00:41:35,778 go to this place find a person wearing a yellow cap and talk with them and then it's like somehow 491 00:41:35,778 --> 00:41:39,919 I found myself in that place and there's somehow a place a person wearing a yellow 492 00:41:39,944 --> 00:41:47,884 cup and I just know like well I can't ignore this so then this takes you into a conversation that 493 00:41:47,884 --> 00:41:52,784 this is another conversation that ended up in business or ended up in in you know learning 494 00:41:52,784 --> 00:42:00,664 something new and you know maybe anyone can go and explain these things with okay I mean there's 495 00:42:00,664 --> 00:42:05,284 a chance that someone was and maybe this place like people that go to this place are generally 496 00:42:05,284 --> 00:42:11,564 thinking like you whatever right but how i explain it's like you throw a coin and you know that it's 497 00:42:11,564 --> 00:42:16,164 going to be heads and you throw the coins not tell it's heads and then you throw it again and you 498 00:42:16,164 --> 00:42:22,264 throw it again when you throw the coins a thousand times and it's always heads that's mathematically 499 00:42:22,264 --> 00:42:27,784 i mean so improbable that that there must be another explanation about it 500 00:42:27,784 --> 00:42:35,264 i'm even writing a book about about a specific chapter from the bible lucas lucas 15 501 00:42:35,264 --> 00:42:47,864 And if I tell you all the people that came around for this to happen in the most crazy, unexpected ways, it's impossible to believe in coincidence. 502 00:42:48,344 --> 00:42:49,424 So, yeah. 503 00:42:50,324 --> 00:42:58,404 But one other thing that I said that the player role, and I mentioned Bitcoin is, so I was trying to teach my mother about Bitcoin. 504 00:42:58,924 --> 00:43:02,504 And there's this book, and I forget the name of the author, and I feel wrong. 505 00:43:02,504 --> 00:43:07,824 they have in the back it's called the the bitcoin jesus connection or the jesus jesus bitcoin 506 00:43:07,824 --> 00:43:14,204 connection so i just decided to you know give it to my mom so that she learns more about bitcoin 507 00:43:14,204 --> 00:43:22,724 but before before i did um i read about a third of it no i believe i was on the on the plane flying 508 00:43:22,724 --> 00:43:29,024 back from germany to salvador i was like oh well why not you know i want to see what i will give to 509 00:43:29,024 --> 00:43:36,164 my mom and then i was thinking like okay so oh jesus seems like a really cool person i will have 510 00:43:36,164 --> 00:43:41,564 loved to be his friend or at least around him or at least listen to him once there's so many 511 00:43:41,564 --> 00:43:47,384 principles that that have to do with with with bitcoin and with in general just trying to be a 512 00:43:47,384 --> 00:43:58,684 good person that i that i truly love and yeah you know and then i throw the coin again and its heads 513 00:43:58,684 --> 00:44:05,484 once again so i can i cannot explain it with words it's it's so unfair so that book that i'm 514 00:44:05,484 --> 00:44:13,904 writing is a theater um it's a it's a play oh nice so yeah and my girlfriend today 515 00:44:13,904 --> 00:44:21,804 someone an absolute randomly she comes from a line of family that is extremely well known in 516 00:44:21,804 --> 00:44:30,844 country for writing and acting in theater plays yeah and i knew about this project before i met her 517 00:44:30,844 --> 00:44:39,484 so it's yeah yeah oh look gg said many many moons ago there are no such things as coincidences 518 00:44:39,484 --> 00:44:45,684 and yeah the the longer i've been around bitcoin and the synchronicities that keep happening 519 00:44:45,684 --> 00:44:48,844 and I can't ignore it anymore. 520 00:44:49,784 --> 00:44:53,724 And yes, you can explain it away, of course. 521 00:44:53,784 --> 00:44:55,284 You go to a conference and, of course, 522 00:44:55,384 --> 00:44:58,924 the same kind of like-minded people are going to be there. 523 00:44:59,024 --> 00:45:03,644 And yes, of course, you're going to have the same common kind of interest 524 00:45:03,644 --> 00:45:06,184 and then you might end up meeting a business partner, 525 00:45:06,184 --> 00:45:08,264 which is why we always say get to conferences. 526 00:45:08,944 --> 00:45:13,784 Go get to conferences or go to your meetup and meet people. 527 00:45:14,904 --> 00:45:15,004 Yeah. 528 00:45:15,004 --> 00:45:19,644 So will the play, will you weave Bitcoin into that as well? 529 00:45:20,704 --> 00:45:27,944 No, that one is specifically about this package, sorry, passage. 530 00:45:28,124 --> 00:45:30,624 I believe that's how you say it in English, called Lucas 15, 531 00:45:30,624 --> 00:45:37,884 which is about a brother that leaves his family with part of the money that was his inheritance. 532 00:45:38,564 --> 00:45:44,184 And he goes out, gambles it, spends it on, let's say like bad things. 533 00:45:45,004 --> 00:45:50,784 and then eventually he returns feeling that he's going to be rejected only to be 534 00:45:50,784 --> 00:45:56,884 hugged by his father and accepted back and it's like a big metaphor that um 535 00:45:56,884 --> 00:46:04,204 yeah that the god is is going to take you back if you if you want it and that's that's been my 536 00:46:04,204 --> 00:46:09,984 my entire life story at the end went far away 537 00:46:09,984 --> 00:46:17,244 I did lots of things I gambled I mean the projects are best at the end right 538 00:46:17,244 --> 00:46:25,504 and then I lost everything and when I came back and asked for forgiveness and for help 539 00:46:25,504 --> 00:46:32,444 it was it was it was it was there and everything just yeah everything has been just 540 00:46:32,444 --> 00:46:37,744 changing like like the trend like in the direction that things are changing it's just 541 00:46:37,744 --> 00:46:44,764 so incredibly good uh and in a way my my partner adam uh he also helped me edit the book 542 00:46:44,764 --> 00:46:51,424 adam really he gave me that structure and i can sum it up and say that before i was looking for 543 00:46:51,424 --> 00:46:57,684 quantity you know now you're super quality you can't even think about this from a work perspective 544 00:46:57,684 --> 00:47:05,004 blockchain stuff and so on now it's bitcoin only before i was you know just in the middle of chaos 545 00:47:05,004 --> 00:47:11,384 just looking for all that noise you know i needed that noise to not to not be stressed you know to 546 00:47:11,384 --> 00:47:19,504 not be anxious because i was i was extremely anxious when they were silent i needed to do 547 00:47:19,504 --> 00:47:22,644 something i need to hear something i need to watch something i need to learn something i need to do 548 00:47:22,644 --> 00:47:29,644 something and today I'm I just found calmness I can send you a picture I live in the middle of 549 00:47:29,644 --> 00:47:35,804 nature when I go out of the balcony of the terrace everything I hear is the river the wind and the 550 00:47:35,804 --> 00:47:42,144 trees and birds that's it's amazing and I don't know like to the front of the sides I don't have 551 00:47:42,144 --> 00:47:47,484 a single neighbor it's just it's just nature and the last part and that the last thing that I learned 552 00:47:47,484 --> 00:47:51,524 is that I was trying to accelerate all the time. 553 00:47:51,704 --> 00:47:55,484 I even told myself, it's like, oh, you work with innovation. 554 00:47:55,664 --> 00:47:56,924 So you need to know everything was new. 555 00:47:56,984 --> 00:47:57,784 You need to test it out. 556 00:47:58,164 --> 00:48:00,124 So I was going all random directions, 557 00:48:00,264 --> 00:48:01,824 trying to go as fast as possible. 558 00:48:02,324 --> 00:48:05,364 And for the first time in my life, I can go slow. 559 00:48:06,124 --> 00:48:09,584 And it took us quite some time with Whisper, 560 00:48:09,684 --> 00:48:12,044 the innovation agency where Adam and I now work 561 00:48:12,044 --> 00:48:14,444 as partners together, took some time. 562 00:48:14,444 --> 00:48:20,924 but at the beginning of last year on the sixth anniversary from we spark that was on the 21st 563 00:48:20,924 --> 00:48:29,704 march nice nice number uh uh adam adam joined the team and it took us some time to truly filter out 564 00:48:29,704 --> 00:48:36,104 everything we were doing removing a lot of noise we were doing like metaverse 3d stuff and so on 565 00:48:36,104 --> 00:48:41,404 and yeah now we focus and narrow on the things that that matters the most not only for us but 566 00:48:41,404 --> 00:48:48,324 also for our past clients and definitely our future classes education so yeah it just feels 567 00:48:48,324 --> 00:48:54,664 it just feels so nice and i have to say that that spiritual journey is also part of it 568 00:48:55,224 --> 00:49:06,064 how would you explain we spark uh elevator pitch yeah so we spark is an innovation agency 569 00:49:06,064 --> 00:49:14,104 our clients they have problems such as they feel that they are stuck or lost 570 00:49:14,104 --> 00:49:22,084 the symptoms are we are not selling as much or we're losing customers or we know that we need 571 00:49:22,084 --> 00:49:29,484 to act on this but we don't know how or where to start and we help them with that and we narrow the 572 00:49:29,484 --> 00:49:33,044 innovation services to three different things. 573 00:49:33,204 --> 00:49:37,944 One is education, and that's basically like our main focus now. 574 00:49:38,224 --> 00:49:42,284 That means we're building visual, engaging, interactive education, 575 00:49:42,684 --> 00:49:46,724 both presidential and physical, as well as digital. 576 00:49:47,544 --> 00:49:49,124 Second is we're doing training. 577 00:49:49,644 --> 00:49:52,864 So in the form of workshops, interactive workshops, 578 00:49:53,264 --> 00:49:56,124 we have one, the beacon workshop as well, 579 00:49:56,124 --> 00:49:59,364 that's going to come out very, very soon as well. 580 00:49:59,484 --> 00:50:03,144 Most likely by the time that it comes out, the website and everything will be up. 581 00:50:04,104 --> 00:50:06,824 So what we do is we compress learning. 582 00:50:08,624 --> 00:50:10,184 We're trying to find that balance, right? 583 00:50:10,204 --> 00:50:16,004 Like how much can we teach someone just focusing on the relevant stuff in how little time? 584 00:50:16,004 --> 00:50:27,344 and with three hours three hours very structured i believe that i can i can we can teach uh maybe 585 00:50:27,344 --> 00:50:32,864 80 to 90 percent of what we know about bitcoin to someone that's new in a way that they will be 586 00:50:32,864 --> 00:50:38,624 right from the from the beginning you know that matters to them so that's the second part training 587 00:50:38,624 --> 00:50:43,504 and the third part is everything what we call the like the generic innovation services and that is 588 00:50:43,504 --> 00:50:45,584 mostly developing new products or services. 589 00:50:46,364 --> 00:50:49,904 We always mix AI now because it will be responsible 590 00:50:49,904 --> 00:50:53,544 not to at least think, how could AI help here? 591 00:50:54,224 --> 00:50:55,584 Definitely in a responsible way, 592 00:50:55,624 --> 00:50:57,524 or we try that it's in a responsible way. 593 00:50:58,904 --> 00:51:00,584 Not trying to just go for the, 594 00:51:00,684 --> 00:51:03,664 let's automate everything and let things run on its own. 595 00:51:03,964 --> 00:51:06,744 I mean, we check where it makes sense. 596 00:51:06,864 --> 00:51:09,244 We want to build things that last for a long time. 597 00:51:09,244 --> 00:51:17,224 And there's a lot of Bitcoin principles and philosophy that are part of the company today. 598 00:51:17,444 --> 00:51:21,864 You know, just as, you know, the don't trust, verify on Bitcoin. 599 00:51:22,304 --> 00:51:28,344 You could see that from the Bible or Jesus side, such as, you know, he would say like, 600 00:51:28,404 --> 00:51:30,764 well, you have eyes, come and see, you know. 601 00:51:31,024 --> 00:51:33,964 And then from our perspective, we want people to be independent. 602 00:51:34,004 --> 00:51:37,224 So we don't develop products or services where people depend from us. 603 00:51:37,224 --> 00:51:41,304 everything what we deliver is supposed to be a one-time package do you need more support 604 00:51:41,304 --> 00:51:47,044 of course we're still there for you but the outcome that we are looking for is that our 605 00:51:47,044 --> 00:51:52,124 customers learn how to do whatever we build for them so that they can do it on their own others 606 00:51:52,124 --> 00:51:58,244 rely on giving just a fragment so that they come back and then you do more business so is this a 607 00:51:58,244 --> 00:52:09,491 wise business decision i don know i not the best ceo but it feels right and you know people like it So what we hope is that when they are finished that they ask 608 00:52:09,951 --> 00:52:11,311 wow, guys, we really like this. 609 00:52:11,811 --> 00:52:13,331 What else can you do? 610 00:52:14,551 --> 00:52:17,831 And that's what has been happening recently. 611 00:52:18,871 --> 00:52:20,591 And we are very happy. 612 00:52:20,951 --> 00:52:23,391 It's from any kind of business sector, right? 613 00:52:23,411 --> 00:52:26,871 It's not people that are looking to get up to speed on what Bitcoin is. 614 00:52:26,871 --> 00:52:32,251 but that gives you the perfect opportunity to then have that discussion. 615 00:52:33,191 --> 00:52:37,851 Yeah. So yeah, Bitcoin in a way is a topic that we love. 616 00:52:38,071 --> 00:52:40,111 We have passion for it. We see it as an enabler. 617 00:52:41,231 --> 00:52:43,811 We also understand that not everyone is prepared for it. 618 00:52:43,811 --> 00:52:48,831 There's a few things that, and moments where you're more open for it. 619 00:52:48,971 --> 00:52:52,911 I mean, when you're having financial trouble 620 00:52:52,911 --> 00:52:55,531 or where you just finally understand 621 00:52:55,531 --> 00:52:56,931 that there must be something wrong. 622 00:52:57,551 --> 00:52:58,571 It cannot be, okay, 623 00:52:58,631 --> 00:53:00,811 why if inflation is now down in comparison 624 00:53:00,811 --> 00:53:03,091 to last year, why are prices even higher? 625 00:53:05,311 --> 00:53:06,671 Those kind of things. 626 00:53:08,251 --> 00:53:10,371 You know, yeah, there are some moments 627 00:53:10,371 --> 00:53:13,191 and you need to be very responsible 628 00:53:13,191 --> 00:53:15,991 on how you do it, 629 00:53:16,631 --> 00:53:18,091 like how you approach the topic. 630 00:53:18,631 --> 00:53:21,211 There's one particular moment in my life 631 00:53:21,211 --> 00:53:23,191 that reminds me of that. 632 00:53:23,691 --> 00:53:24,751 That was in Frankfurt. 633 00:53:24,971 --> 00:53:26,631 I don't know if you ever saw that building 634 00:53:26,631 --> 00:53:28,431 like the European Central Bank 635 00:53:28,431 --> 00:53:29,791 with a big Bitcoin log on it, 636 00:53:29,971 --> 00:53:30,571 with a projector. 637 00:53:31,111 --> 00:53:31,971 Yes, absolutely. 638 00:53:32,211 --> 00:53:36,231 So a lot of people think that this was done with AI, 639 00:53:36,491 --> 00:53:38,171 but I was there, Daniel. 640 00:53:39,231 --> 00:53:40,351 That was one of the moments 641 00:53:40,351 --> 00:53:42,451 where I started ignoring other stuff 642 00:53:42,451 --> 00:53:44,171 and I wanted to go Bitcoin only 643 00:53:44,171 --> 00:53:46,571 because there was a... 644 00:53:46,571 --> 00:53:48,211 I remember in this moment, 645 00:53:48,671 --> 00:53:50,891 I heard two or three days before 646 00:53:50,891 --> 00:53:53,591 in a Bitcoiners chat that this might happen. 647 00:53:54,431 --> 00:53:57,971 And this moment, we were in front of a car, 648 00:53:58,071 --> 00:53:59,931 a very luxury car with the doors open, 649 00:54:00,131 --> 00:54:01,291 with a private driver. 650 00:54:01,411 --> 00:54:03,611 And there was this important blockchain founder, 651 00:54:03,711 --> 00:54:04,831 let's call it blockchain founder, 652 00:54:05,571 --> 00:54:08,931 who he invented the aggregator system and so on. 653 00:54:10,591 --> 00:54:13,491 And he wanted to invite us to his private party. 654 00:54:13,591 --> 00:54:15,231 He had rented like a penthouse. 655 00:54:16,031 --> 00:54:18,631 And I had on my message this message 656 00:54:18,631 --> 00:54:20,611 that this might be happening. 657 00:54:20,611 --> 00:54:27,711 it was a rumor and and these people are like no come come here and so on and back then it would 658 00:54:27,711 --> 00:54:35,271 have been a big business opportunity but i just i just had this idea that one day when i become a 659 00:54:35,271 --> 00:54:40,891 father and i hope that sooner rather than later the one day i'm going to take to tell my children 660 00:54:40,891 --> 00:54:46,331 the first time that the beacon logo was on the european central bank i was there 661 00:54:46,331 --> 00:54:51,491 and it was it was kind of like a gamble right it's like i don't even know if it's going to happen 662 00:54:51,491 --> 00:54:57,891 so there's there were like three buildings that people who rumor that they were going to happen 663 00:54:57,891 --> 00:55:04,271 and then suddenly i'm walking with maybe 40 people it's crazy because we were carrying these 664 00:55:04,271 --> 00:55:10,691 these big boxes like with the projectors but you know it looked like like the same boxes that you 665 00:55:10,691 --> 00:55:16,651 have in military you could have like four bazookas in each of them and there's this like guy comes 666 00:55:16,651 --> 00:55:22,451 with with the big gun like from the european central bank like security guy's like hey what 667 00:55:22,451 --> 00:55:28,471 are you doing there i'm translating from german and everyone is silent and then just imagine like 668 00:55:28,471 --> 00:55:34,791 the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of of human development to hear the answer 669 00:55:34,791 --> 00:55:36,351 nothing 670 00:55:36,351 --> 00:55:37,911 okay 671 00:55:37,911 --> 00:55:40,671 and he goes back 672 00:55:40,671 --> 00:55:43,231 so we continue walking 673 00:55:43,231 --> 00:55:45,671 go to the front of it 674 00:55:45,671 --> 00:55:47,511 and we start setting the projector 675 00:55:47,511 --> 00:55:49,151 and I was very nervous because 676 00:55:49,151 --> 00:55:50,831 I just feel like well this is real 677 00:55:50,831 --> 00:55:53,931 and I'm going back to the exact point 678 00:55:53,931 --> 00:55:55,211 but I feel like well this is real 679 00:55:55,211 --> 00:55:57,591 if I can see the Bitcoin logo for one second 680 00:55:57,591 --> 00:56:00,351 I don't even need a picture of it 681 00:56:00,351 --> 00:56:03,671 I have seen this with my own eyes 682 00:56:03,671 --> 00:56:06,551 and it was surreal because it took 683 00:56:06,551 --> 00:56:08,391 we were there for like an hour 684 00:56:08,391 --> 00:56:10,891 and no one came to stop us 685 00:56:10,891 --> 00:56:12,251 and there was a party 686 00:56:12,251 --> 00:56:14,491 and some people were drinking beers 687 00:56:14,491 --> 00:56:16,271 and we had music 688 00:56:16,271 --> 00:56:18,351 and we were just a bunch of Bitcoiners 689 00:56:18,351 --> 00:56:19,871 having fun and enjoying the moment 690 00:56:19,871 --> 00:56:20,691 it was surreal 691 00:56:20,691 --> 00:56:23,931 but what really sticked to my mind is that 692 00:56:23,931 --> 00:56:26,011 it was not only the Bitcoin logo 693 00:56:26,011 --> 00:56:27,851 or that Bitcoin logo was saying Bitcoin 694 00:56:27,851 --> 00:56:30,471 it didn't say buy Bitcoin 695 00:56:30,471 --> 00:56:31,271 or something 696 00:56:31,271 --> 00:56:33,411 it said study Bitcoin 697 00:56:33,411 --> 00:56:44,111 and that felt so right i mean it's the shortest message or advice the shortest sentence that i 698 00:56:44,111 --> 00:56:49,631 can imagine that made sense for that you know you're going to have to to select the minimum 699 00:56:49,631 --> 00:56:57,151 words study bitcoin is the right one so yeah most people when when they first approach you they are 700 00:56:57,151 --> 00:57:03,851 like okay so yeah okay let's keep that how do we buy bitcoin and it's like i'm not going i'm not 701 00:57:03,851 --> 00:57:09,471 going to tell you how to how to buy bitcoin it's like why not but do you have it come it's like 702 00:57:09,471 --> 00:57:17,271 well i might have and i was like yes i have a little bit of bitcoin but but but that's not the 703 00:57:17,271 --> 00:57:22,251 whole point you know the point is that that you understand why it exists at least minimum you 704 00:57:22,251 --> 00:57:27,611 understand why it exists you don't even need to understand how it works but at least learn why it 705 00:57:27,611 --> 00:57:35,611 exists you know or ask me i'm happy to know you and then you will eventually learn how to buy but 706 00:57:35,611 --> 00:57:43,611 but yeah like in this for example in this a curse with a diploma is the first modern finance plus 707 00:57:43,611 --> 00:57:49,611 bitcoin curse so at the beginning we are just giving a finance a like financial education 708 00:57:49,611 --> 00:57:55,491 foundation because it's to kids imagine if you go to bitcoin with a fiat mindset 709 00:57:55,491 --> 00:58:02,851 then nothing changed you just magnify the problems so yeah study bitcoin is one of my favorite phrases 710 00:58:02,851 --> 00:58:07,711 and it is one thing that i saw with my eyes and maybe it was the moment and everything but it 711 00:58:07,711 --> 00:58:13,431 really it really is stick it continues to stick with me i just know that that's the 712 00:58:13,431 --> 00:58:22,231 the right approach and in a way that influenced why we are specifically focusing on on Bitcoin 713 00:58:22,231 --> 00:58:29,691 education and now just a coin telegraph just like like tweeted or how do you say exposed it about us 714 00:58:29,691 --> 00:58:35,191 or whatever uh and they did it for free the last time that I was working on those other projects 715 00:58:35,191 --> 00:58:43,091 trying to grow it we we paid over 70,000 bucks for an article so it kind of like it's a measurement 716 00:58:43,091 --> 00:58:50,391 it's only two points to measure right but in a way it just tells us we must be doing something 717 00:58:50,391 --> 00:58:58,351 right for this to happen uh yeah so that's what's going on it must have been the same guys 718 00:58:58,351 --> 00:59:06,091 that pulled the stump i think it was prague 2023 uh that i was there and word goes around that 719 00:59:06,091 --> 00:59:12,851 they're gonna show the sign up on the the czech national bank and everybody sure enough the rumors 720 00:59:12,851 --> 00:59:19,291 the rumor mill goes and you go there at the set time and you bump into all these other bitcoiners 721 00:59:19,291 --> 00:59:22,311 that are there like is it gonna happen is it you're looking around and you don't know where 722 00:59:22,311 --> 00:59:26,851 the actual guys are with the projection unit and everything yeah and boom suddenly it's there and 723 00:59:26,851 --> 00:59:31,991 you're like wow it's so cool yeah and you know it's beautiful it is a beautiful building right 724 00:59:31,991 --> 00:59:37,031 you know because the architecture and then after that after like standing around 45 minutes just 725 00:59:37,031 --> 00:59:39,311 talking Bitcoin, looking at that sign. 726 00:59:40,171 --> 00:59:44,751 We walk through the old town, loads of us, like you were explaining. 727 00:59:45,071 --> 00:59:46,651 You know, we're a mob now. 728 00:59:46,931 --> 00:59:49,611 You know, there's 50 people or more. 729 00:59:50,211 --> 00:59:52,751 And some of the guys are carrying the equipment. 730 00:59:52,931 --> 00:59:55,391 We walk all the way through the old town to the Kingchild Bridge. 731 00:59:56,031 --> 01:00:00,211 And we get on the, I'd say about a third of the way onto the bridge. 732 01:00:00,211 --> 01:00:05,251 And then they set it up and they shine it back up on the archway to the bridge there. 733 01:00:05,251 --> 01:00:08,351 It's one of the main tourist areas. 734 01:00:08,571 --> 01:00:10,631 And this is June, so it's late. 735 01:00:10,771 --> 01:00:12,871 It's like 10, 10.30, 11 o'clock. 736 01:00:12,991 --> 01:00:16,011 It's dark, but it's still packed. 737 01:00:16,111 --> 01:00:18,911 And you just look around and people must be thinking, 738 01:00:19,211 --> 01:00:22,111 what's this mob of people doing just standing around talking, 739 01:00:22,811 --> 01:00:25,411 you know, in the middle of a bridge? 740 01:00:25,851 --> 01:00:27,211 And what does that sign mean? 741 01:00:27,531 --> 01:00:30,091 You have no idea, like, the impact, the ripple effects, 742 01:00:30,291 --> 01:00:33,591 the butterfly effect that have, you know, on people. 743 01:00:33,591 --> 01:00:38,150 So with the diploma, let's talk about that. 744 01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:39,611 What is it? 745 01:00:39,691 --> 01:00:40,591 What have you set up? 746 01:00:40,731 --> 01:00:42,691 And what's the passion project? 747 01:00:42,951 --> 01:00:45,451 Because Bitcoin projects are passion projects. 748 01:00:45,671 --> 01:00:49,571 They're very rarely going to make somebody money. 749 01:00:50,811 --> 01:00:53,311 So there's a mix of two things here. 750 01:00:53,371 --> 01:00:54,731 One is I'm Salvadoran. 751 01:00:55,831 --> 01:00:58,991 You will even find articles that I wrote a long time ago 752 01:00:58,991 --> 01:01:03,451 and lots of evidence that I've been volunteering a lot. 753 01:01:03,591 --> 01:01:10,351 before you know i just feel that i need to to do something for my country i i left my country 754 01:01:10,351 --> 01:01:17,831 and i had opportunities that at the end being honest like most people never have they can only 755 01:01:17,831 --> 01:01:23,831 dream about if at all so if i go out of the country and i learn all these things i need 756 01:01:23,831 --> 01:01:29,431 to give something back to my people to the country where i was raised um 757 01:01:29,431 --> 01:01:37,171 and yeah if you think about it designing designing education for a nation 758 01:01:37,171 --> 01:01:45,391 is possibly the highest the highest action that you can do when you when you compare it in you 759 01:01:45,391 --> 01:01:52,311 know like the impact that it has and the effort that it takes so so it just felt that that we 760 01:01:52,311 --> 01:01:58,111 need to do this and then beacon was already like like like my passion you know so when when this 761 01:01:58,111 --> 01:02:03,951 came around, the Bitcoin office wanted to have the next version of the Bitcoin diploma. 762 01:02:05,471 --> 01:02:14,231 And we were there at the right place at the right time. And in a crazy way, it's like, 763 01:02:14,231 --> 01:02:20,411 we were not, when we first talked with the Bitcoin office, we were not approaching about Bitcoin. 764 01:02:20,411 --> 01:02:37,517 That just happened when Stacy asked me what else we doing And so on And I told her oh well we and yeah she showed me no she asked me specifically like like what like if I do something in the Bitcoin space because she has seen me a couple 765 01:02:37,517 --> 01:02:42,197 of times at events and I said like well I mean just volunteering contributing a little bit 766 01:02:42,197 --> 01:02:47,797 visualizing because like what's her visualization and I have my my surface device like this is kind 767 01:02:47,797 --> 01:02:53,457 of like tablet and I just start showing her all the visualizations but these are not a visualization 768 01:02:53,457 --> 01:02:57,697 like take the beacon logo and redraw it or simple things. 769 01:02:57,897 --> 01:03:01,137 These are visualizations that take like a mechanic, 770 01:03:01,257 --> 01:03:02,397 something that is complex, 771 01:03:03,397 --> 01:03:08,177 and then that really helps explain what's going on. 772 01:03:08,357 --> 01:03:11,137 In a way, it's weird. 773 01:03:11,277 --> 01:03:11,917 I would like to show you. 774 01:03:12,017 --> 01:03:14,117 I might send you some pictures if that helps. 775 01:03:14,177 --> 01:03:16,597 I don't know if it will help to put them in this moment 776 01:03:16,597 --> 01:03:18,697 here in the podcast, 777 01:03:18,897 --> 01:03:22,817 but what was going on is we decided to create 778 01:03:22,817 --> 01:03:29,497 this tiny graph with x and y axis and it basically says okay how difficult or easy is this to 779 01:03:29,497 --> 01:03:36,017 understand and second is how essential how important is this that people truly get this 780 01:03:36,017 --> 01:03:42,717 so if something is very difficult and is you know it's imperative you really need to understand this 781 01:03:42,717 --> 01:03:50,117 to be able to understand bitcoin work on bitcoin defend bitcoin whatever then we prioritize to 782 01:03:50,117 --> 01:03:55,657 visualize this stuff because you know if something is extremely easy to to understand and it's not 783 01:03:55,657 --> 01:04:02,617 really essential we are not going to visualize because it you know it's not really well placed 784 01:04:02,617 --> 01:04:08,297 in this like effort graph so what we do is just check for those more complex mechanics that are 785 01:04:08,297 --> 01:04:17,197 truly uh important and we try to understand them and and get to the point that we could explain it 786 01:04:17,197 --> 01:04:20,057 to someone that is five or eight years old, 787 01:04:20,397 --> 01:04:22,017 and then we draw that. 788 01:04:22,397 --> 01:04:24,437 And then we explain that in adult words, 789 01:04:24,517 --> 01:04:25,577 but still being simple. 790 01:04:26,417 --> 01:04:30,277 So when people ask me, 791 01:04:30,697 --> 01:04:32,177 okay, so what's the difference in doing something 792 01:04:32,177 --> 01:04:35,897 for kids, for teenagers, or for adults? 793 01:04:36,717 --> 01:04:39,177 I usually say that for teenagers and adults, 794 01:04:39,697 --> 01:04:41,177 it's almost the same. 795 01:04:41,357 --> 01:04:43,277 You develop it for teenagers first, 796 01:04:43,897 --> 01:04:45,057 and the only thing that you change 797 01:04:45,057 --> 01:04:47,077 so that you make it for adults is the examples. 798 01:04:47,197 --> 01:04:50,237 if you want to have 799 01:04:50,237 --> 01:04:52,277 let's say that 800 01:04:52,277 --> 01:04:54,237 if you want to explain 801 01:04:54,237 --> 01:04:55,957 someone that they are feeling inflation 802 01:04:55,957 --> 01:04:58,117 to a kid you talk about 803 01:04:58,117 --> 01:05:00,077 the sandwich the cafeteria 804 01:05:00,077 --> 01:05:02,117 school they changed 805 01:05:02,117 --> 01:05:03,357 the price it's no longer 806 01:05:03,357 --> 01:05:05,977 $250 now the sandwich is 807 01:05:05,977 --> 01:05:07,577 $350 808 01:05:07,577 --> 01:05:09,277 you know 809 01:05:09,277 --> 01:05:11,597 and then that's something that is relatable to a kid 810 01:05:11,597 --> 01:05:13,937 like okay you want to go out on a date 811 01:05:13,937 --> 01:05:15,037 and you need to invite your girlfriend 812 01:05:15,037 --> 01:05:19,797 or this like tip that you like, you know. 813 01:05:20,237 --> 01:05:21,877 Well, the chocolates and the coffee 814 01:05:21,877 --> 01:05:23,197 are more expensive than before. 815 01:05:23,277 --> 01:05:25,117 So these are relatable to children. 816 01:05:25,517 --> 01:05:27,377 So now you talk about the supermarket, 817 01:05:27,837 --> 01:05:29,317 you talk about, you know, 818 01:05:29,817 --> 01:05:33,757 how salaries have not gone that much, 819 01:05:33,757 --> 01:05:36,557 but prices in their everyday life have gone. 820 01:05:36,757 --> 01:05:38,537 So that is what happens on that part. 821 01:05:38,597 --> 01:05:39,717 So we decided for teenagers 822 01:05:39,717 --> 01:05:42,597 and then we just, you know, 823 01:05:42,917 --> 01:05:44,817 we add even a few more things, 824 01:05:44,817 --> 01:05:48,037 like more topics that can be seen more complex, 825 01:05:48,117 --> 01:05:48,997 but they are still simple. 826 01:05:49,357 --> 01:05:52,057 And we change the examples. 827 01:05:52,717 --> 01:05:54,437 For kids, on the other hand, 828 01:05:55,157 --> 01:05:57,177 you also do the design for the teenagers. 829 01:05:58,177 --> 01:06:00,517 And what you do is you try to capture the principles. 830 01:06:02,317 --> 01:06:04,757 What's what we're trying to teach at the end, you know? 831 01:06:05,057 --> 01:06:06,657 Okay, that there's, you know, 832 01:06:06,797 --> 01:06:08,057 if it's big conversational fiat, 833 01:06:08,197 --> 01:06:12,497 it's that there is better money, you know? 834 01:06:12,497 --> 01:06:17,217 and that's the first thing that you want them to understand like you know you can choose what 835 01:06:17,217 --> 01:06:23,437 money you use at the end and there's better money out there and there are some principles and then 836 01:06:23,437 --> 01:06:29,957 you just you speak the the the easier part so it's more about the design for teenagers you 837 01:06:29,957 --> 01:06:35,837 told it into principles and you cut down a lot and you just stick to it and then as as kids are 838 01:06:35,837 --> 01:06:42,697 progressing then you add a little bit a little bit more until i feel that 13 to 15 years old 839 01:06:42,697 --> 01:06:49,577 is when you have the switch that if you do education focusing on making it extremely 840 01:06:49,577 --> 01:06:55,317 comprehensive not like an authority that this is it this is how we are the authority it's written 841 01:06:55,317 --> 01:06:59,997 in the book so it must be true no but more just like appeal to those things that the kids can 842 01:06:59,997 --> 01:07:05,397 understand and so on i feel that between 13 and 15 year old you can start teaching virtually any 843 01:07:05,397 --> 01:07:14,157 topic before that it's it's it's harder um yeah we have more experience with with with teenagers 844 01:07:14,157 --> 01:07:21,297 than than with little kids but yeah who knows maybe maybe one day at least on the salvadorian 845 01:07:21,297 --> 01:07:27,637 side there is the the little others um book i believe it's called what is money and that's 846 01:07:27,637 --> 01:07:34,477 basically kind of like what children see in school before they they get to the age where they will see 847 01:07:34,477 --> 01:07:42,337 the course that the diploma that we prepare design for them that's amazing that that's awesome and so 848 01:07:42,337 --> 01:07:50,857 that's going to be in spanish in english in will it will you know yeah so like you can just anyone 849 01:07:50,857 --> 01:07:57,057 can download it this one is in spanish and here's the the cool thing and this is where we are right 850 01:07:57,057 --> 01:08:03,417 now so i don't have all the answers but we basically we we own the ip rights for this 851 01:08:03,417 --> 01:08:14,057 There's like over 1,500 to 2,000 tiny images that compound into 155 visualizations that explain Bitcoin and money. 852 01:08:16,097 --> 01:08:18,837 We also have it in English. 853 01:08:19,077 --> 01:08:25,477 Our version is a little bit different than the one that we're publishing with the Bitcoin office. 854 01:08:26,257 --> 01:08:27,357 But it's ready. 855 01:08:28,357 --> 01:08:32,257 It's ready for other governments to tell us like we want this too. 856 01:08:32,257 --> 01:08:35,477 is ready to be put into a learning management system 857 01:08:35,477 --> 01:08:36,057 or in other words, 858 01:08:36,137 --> 01:08:37,697 like some sort of like e-learning platform. 859 01:08:39,617 --> 01:08:41,817 We need to decide what to do. 860 01:08:43,337 --> 01:08:45,077 A lot of things come into question. 861 01:08:45,157 --> 01:08:48,017 It's like, okay, do we open source it, 862 01:08:48,697 --> 01:08:50,777 put in a letter on MS, take sponsors? 863 01:08:52,237 --> 01:08:54,297 Do we go governments first? 864 01:08:54,517 --> 01:08:56,357 We continue doing this nationwide 865 01:08:56,357 --> 01:08:59,337 because governments and so on, 866 01:08:59,457 --> 01:08:59,957 they wouldn't, 867 01:09:00,457 --> 01:09:02,217 some of them I assume is an assumption 868 01:09:02,217 --> 01:09:06,137 I don't know, but they wouldn't like that something is for free and open search and then you sell it to them. 869 01:09:06,617 --> 01:09:09,117 So we need to make those decisions, right? 870 01:09:09,197 --> 01:09:15,197 Like, OK, do we sell to institutions and governments or to private companies or do we go like the open search? 871 01:09:15,317 --> 01:09:17,637 Like all those strategies are different. 872 01:09:18,197 --> 01:09:21,217 Some things we can mix or combine, others we cannot. 873 01:09:22,317 --> 01:09:25,037 We're trying to find what is the best way to proceed. 874 01:09:25,757 --> 01:09:27,357 That's what's going on. 875 01:09:27,437 --> 01:09:28,317 We're taking our time. 876 01:09:29,377 --> 01:09:30,797 We don't want to rush this. 877 01:09:30,797 --> 01:09:33,697 but at the end we need to be responsible and think 878 01:09:33,697 --> 01:09:35,437 okay how's the way how we can 879 01:09:35,437 --> 01:09:36,877 impact the most people 880 01:09:36,877 --> 01:09:43,777 we showcased it at different events 881 01:09:43,777 --> 01:09:45,877 conferences things like that 882 01:09:45,877 --> 01:09:47,877 just to get the world out there 883 01:09:47,877 --> 01:09:49,197 so people can get an idea 884 01:09:49,197 --> 01:09:51,157 of what it is you've created 885 01:09:51,157 --> 01:09:52,957 so we just started 886 01:09:52,957 --> 01:09:55,277 we only talked about this first we announced 887 01:09:55,277 --> 01:09:57,077 that we started working on it 888 01:09:57,077 --> 01:09:58,677 at the Bitcoin historical event 889 01:09:58,677 --> 01:10:01,697 which is also one of my favorite Bitcoin projects 890 01:10:01,697 --> 01:10:05,597 because when you have the backing from an entire state, 891 01:10:06,237 --> 01:10:07,717 like being at the National Palace 892 01:10:07,717 --> 01:10:10,997 with the drones and the Bitcoin logos and the fireworks, 893 01:10:11,437 --> 01:10:13,517 and it's also so surreal. 894 01:10:13,697 --> 01:10:15,797 It's just like a fairy tale, right? 895 01:10:15,957 --> 01:10:17,017 It was awesome. 896 01:10:17,197 --> 01:10:20,737 And there we got to announce basically 897 01:10:20,737 --> 01:10:21,757 that we were collaborating 898 01:10:21,757 --> 01:10:24,077 or we are still collaborating with the Bitcoin office 899 01:10:24,077 --> 01:10:26,437 to create this course. 900 01:10:26,717 --> 01:10:27,917 And that was at the National Theater. 901 01:10:27,917 --> 01:10:29,297 So imagine that. 902 01:10:29,857 --> 01:10:30,797 It's different. 903 01:10:32,057 --> 01:10:34,977 So we talk about it there and also the adopting Bitcoin, 904 01:10:35,197 --> 01:10:37,737 the one that takes place in Osabagor. 905 01:10:38,117 --> 01:10:42,837 And Bitcoin made in just like a month ago, more or less. 906 01:10:43,957 --> 01:10:48,197 So we are just starting to communicate things. 907 01:10:48,377 --> 01:10:52,277 We put everything down on the Whisper website, Whisper.io. 908 01:10:52,597 --> 01:10:55,117 Is it okay if I say the name? 909 01:10:55,117 --> 01:10:55,637 Yeah, absolutely. 910 01:10:55,637 --> 01:10:56,817 So whisper. 911 01:10:57,137 --> 01:11:00,337 Is that spelled W-H-I-S-P-E-R? 912 01:11:01,617 --> 01:11:02,397 We Spark. 913 01:11:02,657 --> 01:11:02,797 Yes. 914 01:11:03,137 --> 01:11:03,597 Oh, we Spark. 915 01:11:03,717 --> 01:11:04,337 I think it's in whisper. 916 01:11:04,517 --> 01:11:05,317 No, we Spark. 917 01:11:05,417 --> 01:11:05,857 No, no, no. 918 01:11:06,157 --> 01:11:08,617 We Spark.io slash Bitcoin. 919 01:11:09,277 --> 01:11:12,717 And then people can discover what we are doing there. 920 01:11:13,277 --> 01:11:15,477 And the services, the same services, you know, 921 01:11:15,537 --> 01:11:21,257 that basically product development, training, education, 922 01:11:21,517 --> 01:11:22,277 even marketing. 923 01:11:22,277 --> 01:11:25,277 If someone wants Bitcoin marketing, we're all... 924 01:11:25,637 --> 01:11:28,857 offering all of those and we're showing like the use cases and what we have done before 925 01:11:28,857 --> 01:11:37,897 for our clients it's very um i mean it's a bold step because while we were always working on some 926 01:11:37,897 --> 01:11:44,077 bitcoin stuff i know these platforms such as linkedin where we were getting completely nerfed 927 01:11:44,077 --> 01:11:50,157 so when i post things about bitcoin i don't i try and sometimes i forget to not write bitcoin on the 928 01:11:50,157 --> 01:11:51,597 text because 929 01:11:51,597 --> 01:11:54,097 no one sees it. 930 01:11:54,357 --> 01:11:56,137 I can tell you for 931 01:11:56,137 --> 01:11:58,237 sure that you 932 01:11:58,237 --> 01:11:59,417 write Bitcoin in some places 933 01:11:59,417 --> 01:12:02,137 and you have this silent 934 01:12:02,137 --> 01:12:02,477 ban. 935 01:12:04,357 --> 01:12:05,997 Interesting. And LinkedIn, 936 01:12:06,357 --> 01:12:07,777 you feel LinkedIn is 937 01:12:07,777 --> 01:12:09,917 throttling Bitcoin posts. 938 01:12:10,397 --> 01:12:12,257 Yeah, so it's quite a bold step 939 01:12:12,257 --> 01:12:14,177 for us, but I 940 01:12:14,177 --> 01:12:16,077 think that there are two things. 941 01:12:16,197 --> 01:12:18,357 One definitely more important than others that I learned 942 01:12:18,357 --> 01:12:19,797 to do is that 943 01:12:20,157 --> 01:12:27,437 One is you can talk about Bitcoin openly and tell like, hey, we're focused on Bitcoin only. 944 01:12:27,837 --> 01:12:31,637 And openly, you can tell people, yeah, we don't do other things, Bitcoin only. 945 01:12:32,057 --> 01:12:33,517 And yes, we stand behind it. 946 01:12:35,717 --> 01:12:40,277 That has resulted, at first I was scared, but it has resulted in better opportunities. 947 01:12:41,937 --> 01:12:45,637 I would even say more than more opportunities is better opportunities specifically. 948 01:12:46,537 --> 01:12:47,397 So that paid off. 949 01:12:47,397 --> 01:13:01,683 And the second thing is also to you know when people ask you and you just did that you know about religion spirituality believing in God to always say what you believe and to not be thinking like what are someone else going to say So someone asked me yeah what about the Whisper 950 01:13:01,903 --> 01:13:03,583 And is Whisper religious something? 951 01:13:03,683 --> 01:13:07,143 No, but, you know, our third partner is God and we do what God tells. 952 01:13:07,243 --> 01:13:10,863 And he tells which customers to take and which customers not to take. 953 01:13:12,003 --> 01:13:12,923 So, yeah. 954 01:13:13,083 --> 01:13:17,623 So those are two things that I'm very, very open and public about. 955 01:13:17,623 --> 01:13:22,063 So, you know, whatever the consequences are, yeah, we'll take them happily. 956 01:13:23,263 --> 01:13:38,363 If people are listening and they go and check out WeSpark.io forward slash Bitcoin and they're inspired, is there any way that people can add value at this stage that, you know, they might be able to help or you're looking for a certain skill set? 957 01:13:39,303 --> 01:13:40,183 Super honest. 958 01:13:40,703 --> 01:13:42,283 Like if that going that. 959 01:13:42,563 --> 01:13:44,603 OK, let me just understand the question. 960 01:13:44,603 --> 01:13:49,343 The question is, if people go to that website, is there something of value that they will learn right now? 961 01:13:49,863 --> 01:13:53,063 Is there any way they could offer value to you? 962 01:13:54,323 --> 01:13:55,123 Yeah, sure. 963 01:13:55,343 --> 01:14:02,403 So if anyone has contacts to institutions or governments that they know that they need it, 964 01:14:02,663 --> 01:14:07,543 that are at least like Bitcoin friendly or Bitcoin open, yeah, feel free to ping us. 965 01:14:08,343 --> 01:14:14,343 You know, when we generate value for others, we also generate values for anyone that is supporting us, obviously. 966 01:14:14,603 --> 01:14:22,943 we're just trying to you know play a fair game so as to say to be responsible to do what we can 967 01:14:22,943 --> 01:14:28,343 for others to spread the things that we truly believe in I know that you are also a person 968 01:14:28,343 --> 01:14:32,723 that when you find evidence for something you change your your mind about those things 969 01:14:32,723 --> 01:14:41,023 and you stand behind truth you know and you spread it and I remember the first time that 970 01:14:41,023 --> 01:14:49,043 that we wrote i went to check the podcast um i've heard to to a few episodes from my favorite people 971 01:14:49,043 --> 01:14:56,823 since then but the first thing that i found was about uh yeah that co2 is not it's not a correlated 972 01:14:56,823 --> 01:15:03,243 to to like a climate change and so on and i was like oh my god this is crazy maybe i cannot appear 973 01:15:03,243 --> 01:15:08,283 here but okay don't trust verify i will go and listen to the podcast and then i even watched 974 01:15:08,283 --> 01:15:15,603 the documentary and then it's like huh how have i been so constant with this how was you know so 975 01:15:15,603 --> 01:15:21,343 sure about something that i never checked for on my own you know and i instantly liked it 976 01:15:21,343 --> 01:15:28,743 you know we we get reminded again and again um that there's things that we have still yet to learn 977 01:15:28,743 --> 01:15:35,883 so with that in mind yeah if someone goes to the website they kind of value by just saying it's 978 01:15:35,883 --> 01:15:39,983 like hey guys maybe you should do this or that you know we're open to any suggestions we truly 979 01:15:39,983 --> 01:15:48,563 listen we truly check um yeah if someone wants to wants to collaborate and have some good ideas 980 01:15:48,563 --> 01:15:53,083 just just spin us and please but please please tell us you know like how you would like to 981 01:15:53,083 --> 01:15:57,183 collaborate i guess like you also get lots of messages sometimes and when people say like yeah 982 01:15:57,183 --> 01:16:02,003 let's see how we collaborate and then you go into a call and it's like yeah we want to sell you this 983 01:16:02,003 --> 01:16:08,143 so yeah so i mean like truly i guess that people that that that listen to your podcast already 984 01:16:08,143 --> 01:16:12,783 they have been pre-filtered you have the sort of people that if they take action is because they 985 01:16:12,783 --> 01:16:21,043 really know uh what they want uh and what what the output should be but but yeah at this point uh 986 01:16:21,043 --> 01:16:26,283 we're really open to suggestions and to people that want to help us in our mission uh we're very 987 01:16:26,283 --> 01:16:31,323 open about what we do and what we don't do. The second part being the most important one. 988 01:16:31,863 --> 01:16:41,483 I believe that defines us even more than what we do. And yeah, we hope that eventually we can 989 01:16:41,483 --> 01:16:48,283 also, and that was my question before, add some value to the people that go and visit the website 990 01:16:48,283 --> 01:16:54,183 directly. So some of the ideas that we have is, okay, this is going to be this book, but this is 991 01:16:54,183 --> 01:17:02,883 for El Salvador, if we put this book out there for anyone to buy at cost, right, just what it costs 992 01:17:02,883 --> 01:17:08,003 to print or it's free, what would be the consequences on that? So those are kind of like the things that 993 01:17:08,003 --> 01:17:12,123 we're thinking, like we can put this book out there. Maybe that's going to help us, you know, 994 01:17:12,303 --> 01:17:17,243 eventually we give something for free, but eventually we get somewhere else that we are not here today. 995 01:17:17,883 --> 01:17:24,083 Or we can create like a free version of the course in a video format or yeah, something like this. 996 01:17:24,183 --> 01:17:28,783 To be honest, in a way, why we wanted to do it is because Adam and I, we get asked a lot, 997 01:17:29,023 --> 01:17:33,103 okay, so when you're in a conversation with someone, imagine the Uber, the taxi guy, 998 01:17:33,103 --> 01:17:38,443 or someone from your family or friends, and then you talk about Bitcoin for 10, 15 minutes. 999 01:17:38,563 --> 01:17:40,643 It's not been much, but they are interested now. 1000 01:17:41,143 --> 01:17:43,243 And they're like, okay, so where can I learn more about this? 1001 01:17:46,163 --> 01:17:53,283 None of us has a source that we can truly tell them, like, go here. 1002 01:17:53,503 --> 01:17:54,163 This is for you. 1003 01:17:54,183 --> 01:17:59,583 you know some people are ready to now spend 30 minutes other people are ready to spend three 1004 01:17:59,583 --> 01:18:07,803 hours uh most people are not ready to to go deep down the rabbit hole for thousands of hours like 1005 01:18:07,803 --> 01:18:14,783 some of the people in our in our inner circle let's call it like that so whenever you send them 1006 01:18:14,783 --> 01:18:20,203 uh you need to know you know like okay so do you want like a half an hour thing or like a three 1007 01:18:20,203 --> 01:18:25,823 our thing you have to ask that and once they answer you need to have like a like a good like 1008 01:18:25,823 --> 01:18:35,743 a good source so because we never felt um that there was the one place we wanted to build that 1009 01:18:35,743 --> 01:18:41,263 place where we can send people um and yeah so that's kind of like in our roadmap now but there's 1010 01:18:41,263 --> 01:18:45,163 so much going on and we're just like filtering saying all the most things so that we can focus 1011 01:18:45,163 --> 01:18:48,663 and making those decisions calmly, focusing on quality, 1012 01:18:49,243 --> 01:18:52,263 making sure that we are going slow enough and calm enough 1013 01:18:52,263 --> 01:18:53,223 to make those decisions. 1014 01:18:53,223 --> 01:18:56,423 So yeah, I hope that happens within the next couple of months. 1015 01:18:57,263 --> 01:19:00,223 But yeah, but if you're asking if there's any source 1016 01:19:00,223 --> 01:19:03,103 that I have recommended to people that I feel that they are ready 1017 01:19:03,103 --> 01:19:06,083 to put maybe five to seven hours into it, 1018 01:19:06,783 --> 01:19:09,203 the answer is yes, and I send them the little Bitcoin book. 1019 01:19:10,623 --> 01:19:11,103 Yeah. 1020 01:19:11,563 --> 01:19:12,443 Yeah, that's cool. 1021 01:19:12,443 --> 01:19:20,203 And it's interesting because there's so many shout out to other people that are creating educational content. 1022 01:19:20,463 --> 01:19:25,043 There's such a, you know, vast array of people doing it. 1023 01:19:25,123 --> 01:19:26,823 I've just had Deanna on the show. 1024 01:19:27,043 --> 01:19:28,223 Deanna Heiken. 1025 01:19:28,403 --> 01:19:31,623 And she's actually she was obviously based in El Salvador. 1026 01:19:31,783 --> 01:19:32,623 She's going to the US. 1027 01:19:32,743 --> 01:19:35,063 She's going to try and create a whole curriculum. 1028 01:19:35,183 --> 01:19:36,623 She's written loads of kids books. 1029 01:19:37,083 --> 01:19:38,003 Absolutely amazing. 1030 01:19:38,203 --> 01:19:39,763 You've got my first Bitcoin, obviously. 1031 01:19:40,703 --> 01:19:42,143 John also over in El Salvador. 1032 01:19:42,143 --> 01:19:48,663 something about El Salvador has sparked this idea of like we need to educate which is great 1033 01:19:48,663 --> 01:19:55,543 we have Claire Chisholm over here in the UK and Scotland she's divided she's written a course 1034 01:19:55,543 --> 01:20:00,643 for the the private school that she's head mistress at she's working closely with Saferdean 1035 01:20:00,643 --> 01:20:07,563 to write a course for like her teenagers up in that school we've got a couple of British guys 1036 01:20:07,563 --> 01:20:15,423 shout out to Huxley and James that are teaching uh they've taught teachers how to teach and this 1037 01:20:15,423 --> 01:20:22,023 is happening in British schools uh which is incredible so yeah more so you know here's that 1038 01:20:22,023 --> 01:20:29,843 there's what we need is options at the end and that's the thing is in those short discussions 1039 01:20:29,843 --> 01:20:35,923 you don't you need to make a lot of assumptions to send someone to the best course I love the 1040 01:20:35,923 --> 01:20:43,283 standard it orange feel me uh i mentioned it earlier even but most people are not ready for it 1041 01:20:43,283 --> 01:20:50,923 they will get maybe scared yeah uh for me to work it was i felt like it was written for me i loved it 1042 01:20:50,923 --> 01:20:59,543 me too and and something that we try to do as well is when we give an example let's say uh this is 1043 01:20:59,543 --> 01:21:04,583 this is an example that is that is inside so we are talking about high time preference low time 1044 01:21:04,583 --> 01:21:11,683 preference we take three examples because we know that there's a higher chance that one of them is 1045 01:21:11,683 --> 01:21:19,383 going to talk to some of the kids one is about um health so basically you know you have an 1046 01:21:19,383 --> 01:21:26,403 a visual example saying like okay today you're eating lots of candies you don't exercise you know 1047 01:21:26,403 --> 01:21:35,503 you have this lazy life so tomorrow you're more probable to you know be unhealthy and not or not 1048 01:21:35,503 --> 01:21:41,423 happy with your body and things like that opposed to if you if you do the hard thing if you follow 1049 01:21:41,423 --> 01:21:48,903 low-term preference then today you exercise um and you eat healthy tomorrow you will feel better 1050 01:21:48,903 --> 01:21:53,763 and you will also like be happy with your body and that's one exercise but maybe sports is not 1051 01:21:53,763 --> 01:21:58,663 something that talks to everyone. So we had another example. The other one is about, you know, 1052 01:21:58,883 --> 01:22:07,583 watching a TikTok or Instagram or Netflix, whatever. So today you spend your life, you know, 1053 01:22:07,623 --> 01:22:12,683 watching all this stuff. And I mean, it's fun, yes, but if you do too much, you're wasting a big 1054 01:22:12,683 --> 01:22:19,583 part of your life. So tomorrow you might probably feel lost and you might be on skill. If today you 1055 01:22:19,583 --> 01:22:27,063 focus more on you know getting new skills uh reading books then tomorrow you will more likely 1056 01:22:27,063 --> 01:22:31,743 be skilled and then the last one is about shopping and you have someone that is shopping uh like 1057 01:22:31,743 --> 01:22:37,503 buying all the things that they want and tomorrow you're more likely to you know have money troubles 1058 01:22:37,503 --> 01:22:43,423 opposed to the person that says like okay i'm going to save today uh yeah then tomorrow you're 1059 01:22:43,423 --> 01:22:47,923 more likely to be wealthy or at least not have problems with money. 1060 01:22:48,503 --> 01:22:49,903 So it's a single example. 1061 01:22:50,323 --> 01:22:53,783 The single thing that we're trying to teach is, you know, low time preference applied to 1062 01:22:53,783 --> 01:22:55,663 real things that kids don't understand. 1063 01:22:56,003 --> 01:22:57,943 But we give them three options to do. 1064 01:22:57,943 --> 01:23:06,783 So if you go macro with that, I believe that or what I hope is that when we send someone 1065 01:23:06,783 --> 01:23:11,143 to a place, we send them to this website, we ask them, OK, cool. 1066 01:23:11,343 --> 01:23:12,383 We are here about Bitcoin. 1067 01:23:12,383 --> 01:23:15,983 and we will just give you what is the best source. 1068 01:23:15,983 --> 01:23:18,303 Not only WeSpark stuff that we have done, 1069 01:23:18,303 --> 01:23:19,863 but also other sources. 1070 01:23:19,889 --> 01:23:23,469 So how long would you like to learn about Bitcoin? 1071 01:23:23,689 --> 01:23:26,289 Are you ready for half an hour, three hours? 1072 01:23:26,689 --> 01:23:28,969 Do you want to read an entire book? 1073 01:23:29,409 --> 01:23:30,089 Okay, yes. 1074 01:23:30,309 --> 01:23:34,129 Then what is your current level of understanding about this or that? 1075 01:23:34,269 --> 01:23:35,649 Okay, beginner and intermediate expert? 1076 01:23:35,829 --> 01:23:38,349 Okay, well, what's your preferred format? 1077 01:23:38,469 --> 01:23:38,989 Do you like reading? 1078 01:23:39,129 --> 01:23:40,069 Do you like watching videos? 1079 01:23:40,769 --> 01:23:42,809 Do you like doing something interactive? 1080 01:23:43,769 --> 01:23:44,589 And then they will answer. 1081 01:23:44,669 --> 01:23:45,749 Maybe it's three questions. 1082 01:23:45,869 --> 01:23:46,889 It takes one minute to answer. 1083 01:23:46,889 --> 01:23:49,689 It's like, okay, this is what we think is the match for you. 1084 01:23:49,889 --> 01:24:07,329 So that's kind of like the approach that we want to go. But as you can imagine, just mentioning the interactive part, as a hobby, I was programming a Bitcoin mining game. I never finished it. You know, I did the assets, the main things, but it was a lot of time. 1085 01:24:07,329 --> 01:24:11,449 And to be honest, you know, like I also need to focus on the business. 1086 01:24:11,629 --> 01:24:13,509 We're responsible for quite some people. 1087 01:24:14,489 --> 01:24:22,149 So I didn't continue it, but we hope to get to the point where we have the customers or the support to be able to build those things. 1088 01:24:22,789 --> 01:24:26,489 Imagine if every time that you're learning a new Bitcoin mechanic, you can interact with it. 1089 01:24:27,989 --> 01:24:33,549 As an example, something that wouldn't take too much time, but you need to create hundreds of these, like a minigame. 1090 01:24:33,549 --> 01:24:37,249 You want to explain how mining rewards work. 1091 01:24:37,809 --> 01:24:41,929 So you can have a very easy game with dices that you're throwing. 1092 01:24:41,929 --> 01:24:44,009 And then, you know, like if you buy a new miner, 1093 01:24:44,149 --> 01:24:45,689 just to say you can throw another dice. 1094 01:24:46,209 --> 01:24:49,449 And now the number is like 80, you know, 1095 01:24:49,809 --> 01:24:53,169 and you need to throw your four or five dice again 1096 01:24:53,169 --> 01:24:56,349 until the number goes below 20, something like this, right? 1097 01:24:56,469 --> 01:25:00,229 And then you see other like competitors that are throwing dice 1098 01:25:00,229 --> 01:25:01,609 and you see the more dice you have, 1099 01:25:01,609 --> 01:25:04,029 the higher probability that you win the next round. 1100 01:25:04,169 --> 01:25:05,549 So it's a tiny game. 1101 01:25:05,869 --> 01:25:08,169 It's fun for like four or five minutes, 1102 01:25:08,649 --> 01:25:09,749 but you got it, you know? 1103 01:25:09,889 --> 01:25:11,869 Okay, Bitcoin, what you're doing at the end, 1104 01:25:12,029 --> 01:25:12,929 mining is, you know, 1105 01:25:13,049 --> 01:25:16,549 trying to find the lowest number possible. 1106 01:25:17,009 --> 01:25:18,329 And at the same time, 1107 01:25:18,409 --> 01:25:20,149 you understand some of these mechanics. 1108 01:25:20,989 --> 01:25:22,289 But it's a game. 1109 01:25:22,449 --> 01:25:24,749 So we want to do these little things 1110 01:25:24,749 --> 01:25:27,089 through the entire curriculum eventually. 1111 01:25:29,649 --> 01:25:31,289 It's obvious your passion. 1112 01:25:31,609 --> 01:25:32,449 for this. 1113 01:25:32,749 --> 01:25:36,409 You are clearly 100% committed to it. 1114 01:25:36,469 --> 01:25:38,909 So I hope people feel that as well 1115 01:25:38,909 --> 01:25:41,089 and reach out to you 1116 01:25:41,089 --> 01:25:41,949 or check out your book 1117 01:25:41,949 --> 01:25:43,989 and go again to the website 1118 01:25:43,989 --> 01:25:45,529 and download it 1119 01:25:45,529 --> 01:25:46,709 and I'll put all the links 1120 01:25:46,709 --> 01:25:47,369 in the show notes. 1121 01:25:47,809 --> 01:25:49,389 But before we end the conversation, 1122 01:25:50,029 --> 01:26:09,194 final question for you If you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody who would you give it to and why wow a single orange pill okay yeah let me give it a second because first i need to think is this something that i 1123 01:26:09,194 --> 01:26:13,354 do for the entire world or something that is truly personal you know 1124 01:26:13,354 --> 01:26:22,554 okay okay 1125 01:26:22,554 --> 01:26:31,994 I don't believe we really have enemies so like we'd be connor we don't really have enemies 1126 01:26:31,994 --> 01:26:42,374 right we only disagree with some people that have potentially not put the right amount of effort 1127 01:26:42,374 --> 01:26:43,814 into understanding what's going. 1128 01:26:45,234 --> 01:26:46,994 Assuming that this orange peel 1129 01:26:46,994 --> 01:26:50,054 also is a full orange peel. 1130 01:26:50,134 --> 01:26:51,034 It has the full doses 1131 01:26:51,034 --> 01:26:52,594 and it also changes the heart. 1132 01:26:55,094 --> 01:26:56,874 And because I spend a lot of time there, 1133 01:26:56,894 --> 01:26:58,914 I will give it to the head 1134 01:26:58,914 --> 01:27:00,694 of the European Central Bank. 1135 01:27:01,894 --> 01:27:08,154 Because she, yeah, she has, 1136 01:27:08,734 --> 01:27:11,114 she's empowered to decide a lot of things 1137 01:27:11,114 --> 01:27:13,974 that affect a lot of people 1138 01:27:13,974 --> 01:27:15,394 that I'm very close with. 1139 01:27:16,714 --> 01:27:19,574 And yeah, 1140 01:27:19,874 --> 01:27:21,674 if she will be properly orange peel, 1141 01:27:22,874 --> 01:27:24,794 I hope this will touch her heart 1142 01:27:24,794 --> 01:27:25,974 to basically see 1143 01:27:25,974 --> 01:27:29,394 that she can truly leave a legacy, 1144 01:27:30,654 --> 01:27:30,914 you know, 1145 01:27:30,994 --> 01:27:34,394 or at least slow down on some things, 1146 01:27:34,474 --> 01:27:36,554 on some plans that she has 1147 01:27:36,554 --> 01:27:38,934 or stop working with some people 1148 01:27:38,934 --> 01:27:39,794 that she is 1149 01:27:39,794 --> 01:27:44,454 or fire some people that are adding, you know, 1150 01:27:46,614 --> 01:27:50,074 absolutely irresponsible articles out there 1151 01:27:50,074 --> 01:27:51,514 that get spread everywhere. 1152 01:27:52,354 --> 01:27:55,454 So why that and not the U.S.? 1153 01:27:55,454 --> 01:27:58,774 I believe that a lot of people look to the old continent 1154 01:27:58,774 --> 01:28:03,074 sometimes for wisdom, knowledge, and so on, 1155 01:28:03,074 --> 01:28:05,134 because people know that in Europe, 1156 01:28:05,254 --> 01:28:07,434 people take a little bit longer to come to conclusions. 1157 01:28:07,434 --> 01:28:09,334 so US 1158 01:28:09,334 --> 01:28:11,614 I guess a lot 1159 01:28:11,614 --> 01:28:13,354 of people will say like I will give it to 1160 01:28:13,354 --> 01:28:15,054 the US president 1161 01:28:15,054 --> 01:28:19,014 but 1162 01:28:19,014 --> 01:28:21,594 yeah but I feel that when I look at the US 1163 01:28:21,594 --> 01:28:23,834 I look at people that are building and so on 1164 01:28:23,834 --> 01:28:24,214 you know 1165 01:28:24,214 --> 01:28:43,059 the US is well represented in Bitcoin and Germany is in a way but I feel that it will have it will have a a really big impact in the way that we need you know let shield a more and more like okay this is grounded 1166 01:28:43,059 --> 01:28:50,699 or something kind of way well love it thank you yeah i i don't know maybe no right answer so don't 1167 01:28:50,699 --> 01:28:54,979 Thank you Daniel. 1168 01:28:54,979 --> 01:28:56,959 Thank you for coming on Nelson. 1169 01:28:57,319 --> 01:29:05,039 It's been great to spend this time with you and thank you for your book and thank you for what you're doing for Bitcoin and Bitcoin education. 1170 01:29:05,339 --> 01:29:11,479 I look forward to watching the project take hold and start spreading its wings. 1171 01:29:11,859 --> 01:29:14,279 So congratulations and thanks for coming on. 1172 01:29:14,919 --> 01:29:15,639 Thank you Daniel. 1173 01:29:15,639 --> 01:29:19,219 We're just trying to be good with everyone. 1174 01:29:19,219 --> 01:29:20,799 That's what we're trying to do. 1175 01:29:21,019 --> 01:29:22,719 So thank you for your time. 1176 01:29:22,979 --> 01:29:24,239 It's a big honor. 1177 01:29:25,399 --> 01:29:30,539 Everyone in my team is expecting that I ride them how it went right now. 1178 01:29:30,699 --> 01:29:31,639 So everyone's really excited. 1179 01:29:33,419 --> 01:29:34,999 Yeah, it's an honor. 1180 01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:38,679 Hopefully we meet sometime soon again. 1181 01:29:39,139 --> 01:29:42,179 If not, I will see you later in 2028 at Madeira. 1182 01:29:42,299 --> 01:29:44,619 But if you're around in Osama, just ping us. 1183 01:29:44,619 --> 01:29:46,659 we're happy to 1184 01:29:46,659 --> 01:29:48,539 go and talk 1185 01:29:48,539 --> 01:29:50,719 yeah well to 1186 01:29:50,719 --> 01:29:52,059 philosophy more than 1187 01:29:52,059 --> 01:29:53,459 philosophy with you 1188 01:29:53,459 --> 01:29:55,819 love it thank you very much 1189 01:29:55,819 --> 01:29:57,939 and yeah if we don't see each other 1190 01:29:57,939 --> 01:29:59,939 before Madeira 2028 1191 01:29:59,939 --> 01:30:01,559 we'll be there for sure 1192 01:30:01,559 --> 01:30:03,839 take care brother thank you 1193 01:30:03,839 --> 01:30:07,499 well thank you everybody for listening 1194 01:30:07,499 --> 01:30:09,939 and thank you again Nelson for coming on 1195 01:30:09,939 --> 01:30:11,679 and sharing what you've been up to 1196 01:30:11,679 --> 01:30:13,999 all your hard work if you want to check out his book 1197 01:30:13,999 --> 01:30:15,939 It's called Unstable Innovation. 1198 01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:17,599 It's a great book. 1199 01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:22,599 Really interesting life and death story in the middle there as well. 1200 01:30:22,819 --> 01:30:35,299 Very, yeah, I've just literally recorded a conversation with Pavla and Mikhail Nördler as well in the Czech Republic. 1201 01:30:35,879 --> 01:30:40,819 And they have their own life and death story also attached to the ocean. 1202 01:30:40,819 --> 01:30:49,899 And I don't know what this trend is, but, you know, it seems that if you have that kind of situation, 1203 01:30:49,899 --> 01:30:56,439 you come out the other side of it and are more committed than ever before to make a difference. 1204 01:30:56,739 --> 01:31:14,644 And just like Inno excuse me Nelson Inno Michael and Pavla are so committed to building Bitcoin services and tools for people and with a focus on education They will be at BTC Prague this summer So that btcprague 1205 01:31:14,764 --> 01:31:15,844 Hit the link in the show notes. 1206 01:31:15,944 --> 01:31:20,604 Use the code BITTEN, B-I-T-T-E-N, to get yourselves a 10% discount. 1207 01:31:21,304 --> 01:31:30,524 And if you want to find out more about how you can help educational processes or resources, 1208 01:31:30,524 --> 01:31:34,104 Maybe you have some kind of experience as a teacher. 1209 01:31:34,624 --> 01:31:40,324 Maybe you have some kind of experience just as marketing or just sales. 1210 01:31:40,564 --> 01:31:40,904 Anything. 1211 01:31:41,024 --> 01:31:48,924 Anything that's going to help these organizations such as WeSpark where Nelson is in El Salvador. 1212 01:31:49,604 --> 01:31:54,424 Or MyFirstBitcoin or Inviti as I was talking about. 1213 01:31:54,644 --> 01:31:56,184 That's the lookout for that one. 1214 01:31:56,184 --> 01:32:00,324 It's going to be released in the next three or four episodes with Michael Perfler. 1215 01:32:00,524 --> 01:32:06,044 and any other educational projects that you see out there that you think you'll be able to lend 1216 01:32:06,044 --> 01:32:11,464 your skills to in any way shape or form also listen out for the interview i've got coming out 1217 01:32:11,464 --> 01:32:19,244 with james jewer he talks about how he has been going into a school in the uk after passing passing 1218 01:32:19,244 --> 01:32:29,024 after being uh greenlit by uh huxley who's running the my first bitcoin diploma course over here so 1219 01:32:29,024 --> 01:32:30,504 how to educate the educators. 1220 01:32:30,984 --> 01:32:33,104 I've had Dushan Matuska on here 1221 01:32:33,104 --> 01:32:34,484 talking about that before as well 1222 01:32:34,484 --> 01:32:37,404 and all of his educational projects 1223 01:32:37,404 --> 01:32:40,124 that he's trying to push and achieve. 1224 01:32:40,724 --> 01:32:41,964 If you can translate, 1225 01:32:42,204 --> 01:32:48,004 if you don't have any kind of literature 1226 01:32:48,004 --> 01:32:50,804 or, you know, these diplomas, 1227 01:32:50,924 --> 01:32:52,724 so this Bitcoin Diploma 2.0 1228 01:32:52,724 --> 01:32:53,744 that NOLS has put together 1229 01:32:53,744 --> 01:32:56,164 or the My First Bitcoin Diploma, 1230 01:32:56,364 --> 01:32:58,324 you know, with this comes textbooks 1231 01:32:58,324 --> 01:33:04,244 style textbooks and they all need translating so that's another way that 1232 01:33:04,244 --> 01:33:08,904 you can help if possible maybe they need artwork if that's some way that you can 1233 01:33:08,904 --> 01:33:12,664 help maybe they need design work if that's some way you can help whatever it 1234 01:33:12,664 --> 01:33:20,464 is reach out and you know forewarning this is not for not-for-profit stuff this 1235 01:33:20,464 --> 01:33:26,884 is just leaning in to these areas and helping people build out educational 1236 01:33:26,884 --> 01:33:32,784 projects. So with all that said, I've run out of music. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, 1237 01:33:32,844 --> 01:33:37,504 Nelson, for coming on. Please reach out to him or any of the other people that you think you 1238 01:33:37,504 --> 01:33:40,684 can add value to. I'll catch you on the next show. Take care.