Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once a Pits In Podcast.
Joining me today, friend of the show, friend of the family, Avi Burra, who is here to talk about
many things because that is what he is doing in the Bitcoin space. Not one thing, but many things.
He's authored two fictional books. He's working on a third. He's got a podcast running over 100,
I think it's up to about 150.
Sorry, Avi, I should have checked.
I know it's up there.
Pleb Chain Radio.
And as he tells us now on this podcast, this interview,
he's really leaning into that
and is going to be running some extra shows.
He's got his Sunday brunch show going on as well.
Big advocate for value for value
is doing a lot of work in that space.
Big advocate for Bitcoin for the arts.
That is an initiative that is coming out of New York.
Dion Wilson is behind that
and he announced that at the PubKey meetup
where I was with Avi in New York
and because I was there for the History of Bitcoin book,
Smash Toshi, you can go and follow that project as well.
Incredible art in that.
A unique, one-of-a-kind piece of artwork,
coffee table book.
It's incredible.
Anyway, I digress.
And he's a filmmaker as well.
if you've not seen his series
Finding Home
where he interviews
expatriate Bitcoiners around the world
that are living in a different country to their own
and asking why
and what is that
journey like and how has Bitcoin
played a role in that
so
lots to unpack here, always a fun rep with
Avi, thank you so much for coming on mate
thank you for everything that you
are doing and continue to do for
Bitcoin and for those of you trying to figure out a way to leave your fiat existence maybe you've
painted yourself into the corner of a 30-year career or whatever it is you're doing something
you don't want to do day to day this is what Harvey did he ripped off the band-aid middle of
last year and he tells you how and why and perhaps you might get some inspiration of how to do that
yourselves as well lots of personal stories in there right before we get into the show a quick
shout out for the show sponsors thank you as always to relay if you're in europe based across
europe r-e-l-a-i dot c-h forward slash bitten go start stacking your sats today you can download
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it's all done for you do not write excuse me do not take a a screenshot or snapshot of the keys
the private keys of your passphrase please write that down just on a piece of paper and we'll talk
about self-custody as well at the same time if you want to get a hardware wallet a bitbox.swiss
forward slash bitten so both relay and both bitbox are based out of switzerland bitcoiners doing
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bit and get yourself a hardware wallet of course you can do your own research never trust me bro
do your own research but please please consider if you've not taken self-custody of your bitcoin
if you've not gone down that rabbit hole if you just if your education is missing in that if that
piece of the puzzle of your bitcoin education is missing find it and fit it you have to start
looking at this very seriously bitcoin in self-custody is the only way that you have control
over that bitcoin if not it's on an exchange it's somebody else's bitcoin finally club orange
they have rebranded from orange pill app club orange is the place for you to go to meet other
the Bitcoiners and if you do meet other Bitcoiners in real life you can have these discussions in
your local little community it could be your town it could be your city wherever you are based
open Club Orange you're gonna find someone I promise you you'll find someone it would be
whether they live there or not they might just be traveling through but you'll find someone within
like 50 to 75 miles perhaps even closer we've had people find each other five miles around the
corner they didn't even know existed. They've been Bitcoiners for years and they've known each
other on Twitter and whatever else, but they had no idea they were around the corner to each other.
And we've had people meet and get married and have babies. So incredible things are happening
on Club Orange. Get over there. Come see us. Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy this one with Avi.
Avi, how are you doing, mate? I'm doing well, Daniel. Bitcoin is dead. Podcasting is dead.
Bitcoin podcasting is doubly dead.
But here we are.
We keep chipping away.
Yeah, I mean, that's why I said to Lauren,
it's important that she comes in and asks the first question
because nobody listens to podcasts anymore, Lauren.
Do they not?
No, 40 hours per week was a 2025 thing.
Oh.
Yeah, everybody got completely bored and tired
and they hate Bitcoin because it's not 250K.
So they're all buying ETFs
and Bitcoin treasury penny stocks instead.
I actually can't tell if you're joking
I can't either
you're probably right
alright
go on, I'll skip it
usually I have five minutes to prepare
but this is a really
last minute question
but
the question is
about your TV show and how
you got the idea to do it
and how you
made it to be
yeah well
I think you've seen an episode or two
right Lauren? It's just mostly
me eating a lot of steak and good food
and drinking wine and travelling to
amazing parts of the world so who doesn't
like doing that? So that was the idea I wanted to do
that on camera
that's one of the reasons
the other is
you know there I really
wanted to tell the story of
amazing things that Bitcoiners are doing.
There is so much darkness and sadness and despair in the world,
but not so much in our world, right?
In Bitcoin and in just the freedom tech movement in general,
there are people with a lot of hope who are building amazing things.
And I really wanted to tell these stories, but not over a podcast.
And, you know, a lot of these folks do show up on podcasts and it's,
you know, nice conversations.
They talk about the technology and so on.
but uh you know i i think these conversations come to life when when they're shot you know
with the backdrop of amazing architecture and food and wine right people tend to relax more
and they show themselves uh their their true selves even more and and these are these people
are all pioneers and they're making the world an amazing place and these stories need to be heard
and the other thing is you know it's not just anyone right it's people who've traveled to a
new country they've become they're either immigrants or expats whatever you want to call
them right there they found a new home there so i'm trying to tell those two parallel stories one
is that that story of them finding a new physical home adapting to that country that cuisine what
part of their culture have they brought with them how is that assimilated into this new culture
they're in but also the parallel story of finding home which is uh more metaphorical right it's it's
we're all expats or immigrants we when i say we i mean us in our group here as bitcoiners
we're expats and immigrants from fiat uh refugees from fiat and we found a sovereign home in bitcoin
so it's those two parallel stories and the food and wine helps too i was gonna say it looks good
yeah the one you watched was in Prague
with Grafton
from Vexel
yeah and you're
I think the entire family
is in it, the Prince family
for a brief shot
we saw Prince like
what's that
yeah yes because
you had the camera guys over on the
weekend of the conference
and filming a couple of the dinners
so yeah it was
yeah it was good to see i've watched all three now so i've watched the one in new york the one
in prague and one in ascension in uh in paraguay and yeah awesome mate i'm looking forward to the
next one yeah the next one is uh london and manchester with our good friend roger 9000
that promises to be a good one i was gonna say those are gonna be good ones yeah imagine
hanging around following roger having dinner with him getting his thoughts on
why he moved to London and
yeah
his music yeah that gonna be fun just felt like the right thing to do man i wondering how much i want to make it family friendly and roger is absolutely a family friendly
guy except that every third word is the f-bomb
i mean and you can see the pureness in him when he says it right but but it's uh i'm just thinking
how much of the episode I'll have to bleep out
or maybe just leave it that way.
I don't know.
We'll see.
Yeah.
I mean, having Bitcoin
appearance is...
You can't censor Roger 90.
Yeah.
I think that's an unwritten rule.
Yeah. And I joke with Avi that
one day he's going to
be the subject
of the show rather than the interviewer.
But it's going to have to be in India.
and where was that where did you go Hyderabad Hyderabad in it yeah and he's got to take us
around like all the the best little eateries and street food oh yeah all the delicious stuff
you in all right you're down all right you got a new interviewer excellent yeah well like I said
last time when was that Daniel was that a year and a half ago when I was on your show
Lauren was trying to remember
and that goes to show you how quickly
time flies
it was only a few months ago we had
I'm like there's no way in the world
this is like
we could always check
we could check because we could check the block height
I know that's on the oven
you just need to go and turn it
say goodnight to Avi and then go turn the oven
bye Lauren
bye
uh right yeah so where where to start mate unraveling uh unraveling what's what's happened
in 2025 here we are recording january 2026 we've got to hang out a lot uh in different parts of the
world and catch up in real life which is always better uh manchester you were there btc prague
where else man Helsinki you came to New York for New York that's right we were over New York
for pub key uh the the Bitcoin culture scene kind of panel uh which was awesome
you've you're the busiest you're the busiest bee in Bitcoin I think mate
what are you running one or two podcasts three in a manner of speaking three podcasts it's the
Same RSS feed, but yes, it's three podcasts.
A TV show, a traveler to all of the different conferences,
and an author.
And my NOSTA startup as well.
And the NOSTA startup, okay.
They're four full-time jobs.
And then I'm involved with Bitcoin Policy India.
We're trying to bootstrap something.
I mean, that's a long haul.
And we could talk about that at some point.
But yes, I do keep myself busy.
It's because I quit my Fiat job.
Daniel, 2025 was a great year for me.
It's the year I walked away from Fiat.
And it just allowed me to do all these things.
I'm busier than I've ever been,
but I'm more energized and happier than I've ever been.
I have four full-time jobs.
I make one-fourth of what I used to make when I was in Fiat.
This is the happiest I've been.
in that I can remember.
Let's talk about the exit.
How did, I know we'd had lots of personal conversations
leading up to this over the last 18 months or even longer,
because this is something that happens to all of us.
You know, you discover Bitcoin, you stack as hard as you can,
and you think one day I'll hit the magic number.
Then you have the realization, no, there is no magic number.
This is on me.
What was that journey like?
Because I know a lot of the listeners of both shows would be in a position where they've painted themselves into the corner of a fiat career.
They might have the nice lifestyle, the good wage, happy family, don't want to rock the boat.
But internally, you're so conflicted.
Yeah.
Yeah, look, I was running an AI team at a large health tech company in the US.
And as you can imagine, well-paying job, you know, reasonably high profile role, that sort of thing.
And it was the job was OK up until my last year there.
It was manageable, meaning it was mindless, pointless work.
But it gave me enough.
Well, it paid the bills and more.
and it gave me enough time to write my first book, travel to a few conferences. So it was okay.
I still had that nagging existential thing of what the hell am I doing? I mean, I still spend
certain number of hours a week on this pointless work, which is pointless fiat work.
but I managed
and then the job started getting toxic
and that's when I started thinking about
why am I doing this to myself
and the simple answer initially was
well I'm doing this for the family
this is what a man does
he takes one for the family
and you've got to pay the bills
and all of that stuff
saving up for the future
and in any case once Bitcoin is a million
all of this is moot anyway
Right. A few, fast forward a few months, job gets even more toxic.
Having the same conversation with myself. And I say, oh, you know what?
Millionaire, millions are a little far away.
And that was when Bitcoin was getting close to a hundred K for the first time.
I said, how about half a million? That's my number.
Then fast forward a few months. And like, and as you can imagine,
this pattern kept repeating. And I was,
if you're familiar with the play Waiting for Godot, Samuel Beckett's play,
these two middle-aged or slightly older men, grumpy old men,
chatting about life, and they're saying,
we're waiting for Godot.
No one knows who Godot is, and they're just waiting for him.
And that's a somewhat nihilistic play,
in the sense that, you know,
these guys talking about life in a nihilistic way,
waiting for this so-called Godot-type messianic character
who never shows up.
And in my case, I was waiting for Satoshi,
in a manner of speaking, right?
I'm Satoshi is going to set me free as Roger's song goes.
And the thing is, I reached the realization about a year after a year of just a little over a year of putting up with this toxicity.
It was around May or June of last year.
It is no one is going to set you free.
And secondly, I had been acting like I was caged.
right like i i had become a prisoner in a jail that i'd created for myself and i always had the
key right so satoshi is not going to set me free i'm going to set myself free there is no magic
number uh so i opened the door and walked out and you know several reasons it's like you know i'd
been rationalizing to myself up until then and oh this is how a good good husband and a good father
behaves and that's not how a good husband and good father behaves because it was making me angry
bitter and resentful. And it was affecting my health. And now I'm a much better, you know,
all of those categories. I'm healthier because there's zero stress in my life. And I'm a happy
father and a happy husband. And I think ultimately that's what, you know, my son's not going to
remember me by, oh, remember that one Bitcoin he worked hard to save, which is now, you know,
now that Ishan, my son, once he turns 40, it's worth $10 million, but dad's dead. He died of a
heart attack when he was 40-something. But at least I have this inheritance of $10 million
of a Bitcoin. No. How is that going to help Ishan at all? What if that one Bitcoin is still worth
$58K when he turns 40, but he's had a rich and rewarding life of experiences with both father
and mother. I think that's a much bigger gift to him than whatever that Bitcoin would have been
worth. So yeah, you know, a series of those realizations, it seems obvious saying it in
retrospect, but you know, it was, I'd built a prison for myself. And then ultimately, it was
just a question of finding the key in my pocket, unlocking that door and walking out.
Yeah, I can resonate. It is taking me back now to when I did it. And that was 2004.
14 and just coming to that realization that you know what what am i what am i doing this for
well i'm doing it for them but i don't ever see them you know i'm a lodger in my own home and uh
like you you're stressed you're agitated you're never yourself you're never your best self you
never show up 100 percent uh because of every all of the negative energy that you've uh encountered
the day-to-day week.
And that was back in the day where nothing was remote.
You were even out of the house.
But it's still not...
How did the actual resignation go?
Because this is another...
It's one thing to say, yeah, you got the key,
just unlock the door.
But there are some conversations to be had there, right?
So the job was so toxic.
There was so little recognition.
And I was holding the team morale up because I looked at these people as human beings.
I had 30 people reporting to me directly and indirect.
Actually, closer to 40, between direct and indirect.
And I saw what the toxic atmosphere was doing to them.
And I was single pouring my energy into keeping their morale up And now that I was looking for recognition from the executives for doing that
And the team was executing, right?
Because I was doing all this.
But there was none, right?
It's not that I'm looking for gratitude.
It's just when there's ingratitude, which is typically the case in the fiat world,
that's when it gets grating.
So no recognition, nothing like that.
So once I had this realization, and it's an incredible mental character.
I'm sure you experienced it when the realization really hit that you're walking out.
I said, oh, I have absolutely nothing to lose.
So I went up to my boss, who was the general manager for our broader unit.
And I said, you need to fire me.
You need to fire me because I'm done.
And it was a very civil conversation.
I said, you know, I gave him some nonsense about thank you for everything and blah, blah, blah.
But it's time for me to move on.
So you need to fire me.
So I can't fire you.
How can I fire you?
You're leading an AI team.
I said, no, no, because I don't want to do this anymore.
So I said, OK, well, let me look into it.
Two or three weeks passed.
And then he sent some lackey to reach out to me and says, look, I get at that point I stopped working.
I said, well, I'm going to be fired.
So there's nothing more for me to do.
and then there's like he said hey look there's no way it's going to look bad if you fire the head of
our ai unit um you've got to resign uh i said i'm not going to resign well i need my three-month
severance i didn't say this but out loud but um so the back and forth for a bit meanwhile i was
this was through like may and june i went i came to prague uh for btc prague uh shot the film
went back and they said look there's there's nothing there's literally nothing we could do
you've got you have to quit I said fine so I put in my resignation um gave my notice July 4th
Independence Day was my last day nice yes yes very intentional um and and that was it but it was it
was liberating yeah you know I was there uh for a month or two after I'd after that moment of
clarity but um but at that point you you once you realize that you don't need them anymore you could
do anything and you realize the system is just it it it relies on your obedience and your fear
right that's how they manipulate you and once that fear and obedience is gone
then they have no power over you so when did you start writing the second book at what point during
this journey because you know when when you dropped that i was like oh mother fucker i've
got another bitcoin book to read now and then i get that copy in manchester i'm like oh man it's
another brick like what the hell has been going up in your head like you know that's not a short
story it is not a short story uh it it so i had by at that point i'd written about maybe 50 pages
of the book. So my first book, 24, I released in November of 2023, right? We're talking about
I quit in summer of 2025. So in the two years or a year and a half since I'd written about 50 pages
and it had been torture because I hadn't been able to get there, you know, write two pages,
hit writer's block because of nonsense at work and stress and all of that stuff.
so i took those 50 pages uh and yeah it was in basically july 5th i think is when i started
reading writing page 51 and then within three months i was done yeah by sometime in august or
so oh no sorry by late september i was done yeah wow yeah released you released the beast and yeah
yeah and look at it yeah i loved it i thought it was a great book absolutely loved it and you know
a nice carry on to the first book.
And then you leave me with the idea that,
oh no, he's going to write another one, isn't he?
What have you got coming now?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think it's fair to let the cat out of the bag
at this point, Daniel, which is,
for people who read 24,
obviously it ends on a cliffhanger.
And I thought I'd complete the story in book two.
but as I was writing book two
and especially in this liberated state
I said there's no way this is ending
there is no way
I'm having way too much fun doing this
so I left July 18
which is the sequel to 24
on a cliffhanger as well
and
I'm actually about 20 pages
into book three
that is getting a little challenging Daniel
not because of the same fiat pressures
I had for July 18
but just because I'm juggling so many things right now.
So that, the third book in the, let's for now call it a trilogy,
we'll see what happens, is about 20 to 30 pages in.
So for those that weren't aware, 24 was so named
because you had 24 words hidden in there.
And I've actually already recorded with Dave Pierce,
who was the man that managed to, well, the way he explained it to me,
and this podcast would have dropped by now.
So if you're listening to RV and you miss Dave's
and you're wondering about the whole story,
you can go back and listen to Dave.
But he got halfway there, but then employed the help of
like a Bitcoin treasure hunter, if you want to call them that,
and they managed to crack the code.
and uh yeah that the the words were the words from each chapter which i thought was a complete
red herring and never ever even thought of going down that route or rabbit hole anyway
but then he he described like the how insanely difficult it is to actually get those words in
any kind of working order so that's where the skill lie but then in book two i'm reading through
it and i'm thinking nah like that i don't just i'm not gonna go down the rabbit hole of looking
for this stuff how what what clues of it well first up something's hidden yes yes yes okay
All right. So we know that. Has it been claimed?
No, it's it's an order of magnitude and complexity more than what I did.
You know, I and, you know, Tufty Silvestris, Dave Pierce, has become a good friend since he cracked the bounty.
So love the guy. I have to say I was a little disappointed that he had to employ brute forces.
to do it.
But that was, I mean, I'm only half joking.
It's inevitable, right?
That at some point, once you get 12 of the words
or 13 of the words in the right order,
then you just, you can brute force through the rest.
So I wanted to eliminate that possibility.
So yeah, this is much harder to brute force.
Obviously the chapter titles are dates.
So do with that what you will.
The chapter titles in 24 were the seed words.
I hid them in plain sight.
They were just in the wrong order.
So in this one, cryptography is a really interesting world.
And there's all sorts of things you can hide in places, in locations, in dates, in other things as well.
All of these can be mapped one is to one deterministically to a Bitcoin private key and therefore a Bitcoin seed phrase as well.
So I think I suspect this will take years to crack, but you never know.
And is the because in the first book, you had the address was public and people were even sending in donations, if I remember rightly.
Yes, they were.
That was classic, classic Bitcoin move.
He's like, I'm not going to bother trying to crack it, but I'm going to donate to the bounty just to.
Yeah, I love that.
So is that the case in book two?
What's the bounty?
Will anyone know?
I will.
I don't want to reveal it just yet.
And also, I'm going to add as the book keeps selling, I'll just keep adding more to the bounty.
I will reveal it at some point.
Maybe this year.
We'll see.
It would be nice, nicely symmetric if I could reveal it on July 18th of this year.
but I'm in two minds about that because the book is July 18.
We'll see about that.
The reason I don't want to reveal the address is it helps with the brute
forcing a little bit.
Okay.
So to the uninitiated brute forces out there, which is mostly,
I would say probably assuming 99.9% of the listeners right now,
how does brute forcing work and how would,
knowing the address help?
So I have to look up the exact technicals.
I'm not going to go too deep into the technical part of it.
So brute forcing in general, right?
So let's say you're trying to open, you know,
you have those doors with the combination locks.
Let's just say it's four digit.
You type in, and you don't know,
it could be anything between 0, 0, 0, 0 to 9, 9, 9, 9.
So brute forcing is you could go 0, 0, 0, 1.
Well, didn't work. 0, 0, 0, 2.
And then you just keep doing that.
Or, you know, you can use smarter algorithms like...
Actually, I don't think that works.
Your probability of finding it remains the same
irrespective of whether you go sequentially
or find some...
You jump to 1, 3, 9, 7.
Then you go to 2 6 4 5 I don think that really helps So that brute forcing just trying different combinations until you get the right combination
I think one way, so when you derive your, so anyone who's used a Bitcoin wallet, right,
you derive a new address every single time, or at least that's what you should be doing. You
shouldn't be reusing addresses. So there's actually an order in which those are generated.
and you can think of it as depth, right?
The first one, and the next time you do it,
there's a second one.
And all of those, if you know the XPUB of the key,
again, this is what I'm saying,
I don't want to get super technical here,
but you can derive the entire,
I guess, infinite possibilities of addresses
for the public key.
the one I had given for 24 was not the very first one,
but it might've been the second or the third
because I'd done a couple of coin joints.
So I just did it going through a couple of them, I think.
So it made it fairly simple for people checking
because they would go through the combinations
and then check the first two or three addresses,
cross-reference the first two or three addresses.
If it was the one that was publicly visible,
then they said, okay, found it.
So it makes it a little easier.
If I bury, first of all,
if I don't reveal what the address is,
then they can't do that shortcut check.
The other thing I could do is bury it
like 100 addresses deep,
which I think I probably will do just to dissuade.
So when I do reveal the address,
I'll just look at the list,
pick one from the bottom of the list
and share that.
Oh, my cool. All right. So, uh, New York culture, Bitcoin, big part of your story at the moment, because this is what is really, I mean, we've been talking about this from Prague 18 months ago, two years ago, whenever it was, when it first kind of suddenly dawned on us that,
huh you know all of like the the grant money that is in the space is all going in one direction
and one direction only and that is to devs and that's an important direction yes yeah but there
was that realization that um there weren't enough jobs for the devs come the time so we were losing
them to shitcoin projects uh and you were theorizing well isn't there a better way for
you know good good funding grant funding to be used and you know what other areas are there that
we could start building out and i i think you correctly pointed out that you know culture
art how many artists do we know between us uh that they're not getting the grants
they love what they're doing but they're only getting paid if somebody else loves what they're
doing and only the very few will ever be commissioned to do a piece of artwork so how
are they supporting themselves uh you have a strong sense of well a strong love for the uh
performing arts which is what uh dion was talking about on the panel who's an ex-broadway actor and
now bitcoiner uh so you guys have been um have been chatting together so do you want to get us
up to speed on what is moving, anything at all, what's happening,
and where do you see this thing going in the next year or two?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So maybe just a broader point on why culture, right?
Because the obvious question from the casual listener would be,
what are you talking about culture?
Bitcoin is a technology.
Of course, the devs need to be funded because they need to build
either protocol level tools or applications that work with the protocol.
And absolutely, right?
That is without a strong foundation, the protocol layer,
and then meaningful things that end users can do at the application layer, right?
Good wallets, better privacy, all of that stuff.
Then there is no Bitcoin, right?
There is no mass adoption, let's just say, for Bitcoin.
But that's not enough. If we do think of this as a movement, as a revolution, you don't get people just by talking to them about tech, right? You don't get the broader masses to adopt it.
So my thesis there, and we've talked about this at length, right, Daniel, both offline, obviously, but also I think we touched upon it on your last time I was here, is the way you bring people into the fold, just normies, if you will, is through an emotional connection, not through the intellectual explanations about Austrian economics and distributed systems and censorship resistance and all of that stuff.
That resonates with a small subset of the population, the more technically and analytically minded people.
The vast majority of people need some kind of emotional hook.
And that's where culture comes in.
It's when people say, you know, I want to be part of this because look at all this amazing art that's coming out of this movement.
Look at all the film, whatever else, right?
theater. So that's really the idea behind building a culture around this technology, right? And
there, obviously, there are a lot of values that some of us core believers adhere to,
like cypherpunk ethos, sovereignty agency, individual agency, and all of that, individual
empowerment. Yeah. So all of that stuff, that is best reflected through art, through culture,
and so on. So that's the idea behind having a fund that supports artists and other creators
in this space. And I think we should do away with the notion that art is somehow a revenue-generating,
self-sustaining exercise.
It's not.
I mean, just look through history.
There's never been a quote-unquote market,
thriving market,
where artists, every single artist,
everyone who becomes an artist somehow
is able to pay the bills
just through selling their art.
It's not like becoming a dev.
Chances are if you become a dev,
you'll find a job somewhere,
you'll get compensated for it,
and at least you'll be able to keep the lights on.
That's not the case with art because it's not a commodity in the way software is a commodity or tools, physical tools, physical equipment is a commodity.
I think it's a higher order entity, if you will, that's really important to exist for humanity to thrive because art can and does inspire people.
I'm sure you've experienced this, Daniel.
Just take a walk through a nice museum gallery.
And I'm not talking about modern art, but the masters, right, from the 1700s, 1800s, even the last century.
Monet, Manet, Dali, all of this.
You walk through, you spend some time staring at those paintings, and you just come out feeling amazing.
Because you've been inspired by just that visual assault of beauty that you've experienced.
Same thing with theater, same thing with really good movies, right?
So art is important to exist because it has this ability to inspire people, inspire society,
put them in a better state of mind so that then they can do things that they otherwise
wouldn't have if they weren't inspired.
That's why art needs to exist, I think, because a beautiful world is a better world.
And art doesn't sustain itself on applause.
it needs patrons again historically this has always been the case the the medici the as farza
the i mean you just you name it right just walk through history it's been the patrons have always
supported the art even the museum galleries today they have the name of someone right the coke
brothers unfortunately but they're uh they are big patrons of the art and others as well so
the same thing applies to
artists who are part of the
Bitcoin movement
yes maybe you'll have one or
two breakthrough pieces where the
artist makes a lot of money
off of that and then is able to
sustain themselves for a certain amount of time
but for the most part we need
patrons to step up to support this
if we want this
revolution to succeed, this movement
to succeed. So that was the idea
behind Bitcoin for the Arts
It's a nonprofit that Dion Wilson, who you mentioned, he's based in New York, former Broadway dancer and actor, now focused primarily on this.
It was his idea. It's sort of an actualization of what we talked about in Prague in 2024, I think, right? That summer.
and the idea is really simple
this is an organization that takes
donations just as OpenSats does
but as OpenSats, what OpenSats does is it looks for the right
developers, the right tools and it invests in them
whether it's, not invests, it donates to them
it has these grants and
And the people who donate to OpenStats, which
let's be honest here, it's just Jack Dorsey
and maybe a couple of others, right?
He's not looking to make money off this, right?
He's, if I were to interpret why he's doing this,
it's because he believes these tools are important
to make society a better place.
We need freedom tech.
We need NOSTA to succeed.
I've had, you know, a whole bunch of NOSTA devs
on my show, Plep Chain Radio,
and a common theme among them is,
yeah, I've built this incredible open source thing,
like whether it's live streaming on Nostra, something else,
none of this would have been possible if I didn't get a donation.
Like there's no way this kind of public commons
that everyone benefits from can be built without donations,
without patronage.
So I suspect that's where Jack Dorsey is coming from, right?
Not to make money, but because these tools are important
to make the world a better place.
And I think patrons need to take a similar view towards art.
You're not going to make money off it,
But we need this to be there so that the movement can thrive, so that there's more beauty in the world, so that people get inspired and can do things then based on that inspiration.
So that is the idea.
It's like an open stats for art.
It will seek donations from patrons and then find art, whether it's commissioning a painting, commissioning a mural, theater, books, TV shows, whatever it might be.
in the artistic realm that promote Bitcoin values, if you will,
values of self-sovereignty and censorship resistance and all of that.
And just help them out that way, help them create their art.
So the fund is up and running.
Is it all done, dusted and listed and ready to go and able to,
can people donate yet?
A few more signatures and paperwork.
getting a non-profit off the ground,
especially in the state of New York,
is not the easiest thing in the world.
There's an absurd amount of paperwork and bureaucracy.
So I think we're in the final stages of that.
A lot of the operational infrastructure
is falling into place.
And I think within the next few weeks,
I'm hoping by before the end of February of 2026,
we'll be in a position to start reaching out
to donors, patrons, and building up the base.
that's amazing and uh yeah well done to dion because he took the action uh it was um brilliant
to see him on that panel and uh he brought some very interesting statistics with him as well that
painted the picture of of how bleak it is out there in general in the uh the the art scene and
the culture scene because yeah well guess what it's it's not important to the uh the puppet masters
yeah but they don't want to inspire people they want people to be uh nihilistic because they're
easier to and and then what do they do they watch ad infested nihilistic tv shows uh that suck the
joy out of them um they go back because they're so uninspired they don't try to break out of that
nine-to-five job, their spirit is broken, and they just keep the good, faithful, obedient
cogs in the machine.
Art can be dangerous because it can give people, quote-unquote, bad ideas, right, that inspire
them to do things that are non-compliant, unapproved.
So that's another thing that you're involved in, which we didn't touch in on that first
like list that we put out there because you added to it Noster Startup. So what are you doing now
on Noster? Yeah. So about a year or so ago, actually at this point, a year and a half ago,
I had this idea. I was chatting with Vitor Pamplona, who was the creator of Amethyst. I
think you use Amethyst, right? And then there's this guy, John Gordon. He's part of this company.
He's a Bitcoiner and Nostagai, Satoshi Health Advisors.
And all of us happen to have, even Vitor actually had a prior health tech background.
And we said, look, there's got to be a way in which we can streamline healthcare data
because the current fiat system is just absolutely terrible.
The companies control all the data and, you know, the patients get shafted.
doctors that don't have clear visibility into the patient's medical file, all of that stuff.
That was the initial idea behind this company. We called it Nos Fabrica, our factory in Latin,
right? One of the things, as we were just building stuff out, we didn't immediately
seek out investment. At the time, we thought, well, let's just tinker around a little bit and
see where we can get, we did us, you know, we, out of our pockets, we funded a small hackathon
for healthcare use cases. And that was really well intended. We had 25, 30 people attend each call,
devs, and then we had seven or eight submissions. So that was really good.
That takes us into this summer. And then we was, you know, we were running into some
open questions, which is in a decentralized system, some, and let's say we build a marketplace
for patients looking for care,
or even if it's holistic care, right?
Someone's looking for a functional medicine practitioner
or New German medicine practitioner,
whatever it might be.
And they're on NOSTA,
they go to this NOSTA marketplace
and someone's listed there.
In a perfect world,
they make an appointment,
they zap them,
and then they can have a secure video session.
And that's that.
The problem is,
just because someone says they're a doctor,
How do you know they're a doctor?
It's an open system, right?
There's no KYC.
We certainly didn't want to get into that business saying,
okay, we will create the marketplace.
You give us your license and credentials.
We'll run a verification and give you a green shield
or green check mark on your profile.
We certainly didn't want to do that.
That's just recreating fiat gatekeepers.
So the problem becomes,
how do you know someone who says they're a patient
is actually a patient?
They could be a scammer.
Someone who says they're a doctor is actually a doctor.
It's just an end pub.
How do you know?
So that's when we realized we need to solve a more fundamental problem
before we can even get to healthcare, which is that web of trust.
So we were in conversations late in the summer, early fall of last year, 2025,
with another NOSTA guy, David Strahan.
He's a neurosurgeon, neurologist, sorry.
And he had spent the last few years studying web of trust.
And he built this web of trust engine called Brainstorm.
I mean, he's a neurologist and he built Brainstorm.
And that's when we realized that we need to pivot
into solving the web of trust issue with NOSTA.
And that's where NOS Fabrica, the name works well.
While in Latin it means our factory,
but it's also the fabric of NOSTA.
in some sense, which is this trust layer.
So how do you build a trust layer in an open and non-gate-capped way?
So this is where Web of Trust comes in.
That's what we're working on, and we've been working on that
for the last five or six months now.
And we'll be rolling out some prototypes
and then some reference apps on top of that.
So I'll give you some examples.
you listen to you know joe martin's music and all fountain has a lot of music out there right
it's part of the open music ecosystem joe martin ainsley costello all these others i suspect you've
had them on on your show in the past longy as well yeah longy yeah yeah shout out to aaron the uh
yeah the the murray from the flight of the concords of the bitcoin world yes the band
manager with the most yes nathan as well yeah he's doing such great work yeah yeah so yes yeah
so so there's aaron on on that side of the pond there's open mic and others on this side of the
pond in the u.s uh who are doing we're getting these independent artists onto nostril now if you
as a listener you might not know all of these artists you might if you ever listen to them you
You might really love their music, right?
If you go to a website like Fountain or any other that browses these catalogs of independent artists, how do you find someone?
How do you know that you're going to like Longhi if you don't even know who Longhi is?
So there is no curation or discovery today in this open music system.
And that's where Weber Truskin comes in at a couple of levels.
One, if someone in you, it could be as simple as someone in your follows list either zapped or liked or reacted with a song on Fountain, right?
That would show up and you say, oh, who's this longy guy?
Why did this guy I follow zap it like a thousand or ten thousand sets?
Let me check it out.
So at that very basic level of just follows, you can get a sense of who the people in your network are listening to.
So that improves discovery and is the first layer of curation.
But you could take that to the next level, make it contextual.
Within your web of trust, the web of trust being the people you follow and the ones they follow who are not bots, right?
And there are algorithms that can filter that out from your perspective.
you can build a subset which is contextual.
So you have a broad web of trust,
but you also have a music web of trust.
You have a food web of trust.
I could trust your taste in music,
but not your taste in food.
I'd go to someone else for food recommendations.
Yeah I could be vegan or some shit right Yeah exactly I sorry I sorry guys Please don hate me That was just a joke Go ahead By the way Roger 9000 our friend
who is a carnivore adherent,
Roger, I'm sorry I'm doing this to you,
but I have to let the cat out of the bag,
loves broccoli.
Oh, wow.
I mean, yeah.
To the point, it's a level of obsession I have never seen.
He has to have broccoli with every single meal.
Anyway, but you can have subsets in your web of trust.
And that makes it contextual.
And that improves the discovery and curation process.
So you can find music that you're actually looking for,
that you might have never heard of, right?
So that's one example of how web of trust can help.
You know, if you're looking for a doctor,
someone in your network, someone you trust has gone to that doctor,
has given them a review, right?
It's not a...
Well, I already wrote down, you said David Strayhorn?
Horn, yes.
David Strayhorn, because my son's suffering with some migraines,
so I would love to talk to a neurologist,
but I don't want to just go get a referral.
Who are the Bitcoiners?
Yes, I could reach out to Jack Cruz,
and now you've just given me another name.
So this is great.
and i can send you his details after after this daniel you should at some point get him on the
show as well he's a yeah like a uh he has a lot of good thoughts on on this so he's in no pun
intended the brains behind the algorithm and i call it algorithm loosely because it's not algorithm
this web of trust is not an algorithm in the sense that there's a centralized entity that
has this black box that dictates what you see and what you don't see.
It's a personalized algorithm that's entirely based on your network
of people you trust in certain contexts and who you follow and so on.
So zaps, you can use economic signals.
If someone you trust is zapping someone for a certain service,
you're like, wait, why did they do that?
Oh, maybe they're worth it.
Right. So a lot of cool things you could do.
And I believe Web of Trust is the missing piece in NOSTA
because that improves the search, discovery and curation process.
And I think it'll make the user experience a lot better for people.
Are other people working on this as well?
There are different groups working on different implementations of Web of Trust.
Yes, but it's all additive.
Also, you don't want NOS Fabrica, my company,
to be the only web of trust provider.
Again, that defeats the purpose, right?
The whole point is we're building it in a decentralized system
and we want multiple options.
So from what I understand, our mutual friend Shadrach
is building out like the DHL of the Bitcoin world.
Yes, A to B.
Right, A to B, exactly.
And taking on like the dreadful postal system.
But that, I assume, has been built up very much
around the web of trust kind of ethos,
because if you're shipping, in his case,
it could be very fragile,
it could be highly expensive equipment,
or it could be artwork.
Yeah, that web of trust that needs building.
Yeah, we're talking,
we're working with Shadrach on that.
And here's the really cool thing
about the shipping, right?
which is a tweak that they have, that A to B has.
So think about it this way.
In the fiat system, in the non-Bitcoiner world,
you go to Amazon, you order a package.
The merchant knows where you live.
You've disclosed your address to them.
Now, if you think about how Tor or even Lightning works,
lightning routing works
it's onion routed essentially
what that means is
the originator sends to one hop
the first hop
that hop sends to the next hop
none of these hops know for sure
if the one they received the payment from
is the originator
and the one they're sending to is the destination
they just know that they're in the middle
and they're just transmitting this payment information.
Same thing with Tor, right?
That's how these data packets move.
You have these multiple hops
and it goes from source to destination
and no one knows because you can't trace it.
That's a tweak they could add to this A to B as well,
onion-routed physical mailing.
So that way when you order something from Amazon,
they get the address of the first drop-off point.
Not Amazon, but you know what I mean.
Let's say from Plebeian Market, right?
Shout out Chief Monkey.
You order something on Nostra, right?
Raw milk is a bad idea because it goes bad.
Something durable.
Soap miner.
A soap miner, okay.
Now, soap miner, maybe he's a trustworthy guy,
but let's just say it's another guy who's selling soap,
and you're like, look, I want to protect my privacy.
I don't want to give my physical mailing address
to someone on Nostrad.
Now, you pick a vendor who's in the web of trust, right?
Like, okay, this is trusted.
My friends have interacted, have done business with him,
so good rating,
but I still don't want to give him my address.
You order from him.
He drops it off at the first location, right?
He doesn't know if that first location is a destination
or what, right?
So the first location guy gets it.
He doesn't know if Soap Miner is the originator.
All he knows is he has to take this and drop it off at the second destination, this courier, right?
He drops it off at the second destination and so on and so on.
Ultimately, it gets to you.
The only one who knows what your address is is the guy who dropped it off at your place.
And even he doesn't know if you're the final recipient or not.
So that's a really cool thing.
Onion-routed physical mailing, it's obviously going to be more expensive because of all the hops in between.
but it's amazing for privacy.
And you need a web of trust to know that all these hops
are not going to make off with your expensive art
or whatever it might be.
I'm a daily user of Nostra, as you know,
and every day I open it.
In fact, I think every time I check the feed,
which is less than it ever was with Twitter,
it just goes to show you how programmable humans are
and how good the Twitter algos had become.
It's off my phone now completely.
I only ever look at it when I'm on my desktop or laptop, excuse me.
But when I look at Nostra, someone's just spun up a whole new idea
and that's being built out.
And I tweeted, excuse me, posted, reposted to you just before we hit record
because Derek Ross has now just spun up Podster or something.
like you know yeah i've not even had a chance to look at it it's like own your content own your
uh listeners own your i'm like all right this sounds cool uh ben weeks tagged me in it so i'm
like okay i'm gonna have to have a look at that now but everything's moving so fast yeah it's hard
to keep well it's also vibe coding has just made it so much easier right um to just like people who
are not necessarily full-fledged devs technical enough to understand systems architecture but not
that technical that they could write a full-fledged app.
Now just use AI.
They bring their technical architecture expertise
so they can actually prompt the AI properly.
And then the AI just does the grunt work
of writing the code.
And you have a full-fledged app.
It's really cool.
Wow, man.
So, all right.
So we've done the book.
We've done Noster.
We talked about the culture.
Talked about the TV show.
it leaves us with the podcast or the podcasts uh yes what what are the different flavors what
what's the different projects yeah so up until about last month actually end of 2025
i had just one podcast pleb chain radio um and uh it was a show focused on bitcoin and
Nostra, we'd get builders and devs and people in culture, you know, doing cool things. And we had
really nice conversations with them. What was happening, and I'd been doing it, I'd started it
in March of February or March of 2023. So almost three years now. And the last few months, I'd been
like, this is getting repetitive. This is just getting old, having the same conversations with
people. Yes, they're lovely people and they have interesting things to say, but I'm not feeling
intellectually challenged anymore. So I was kind of coming in and just going through the motions
for the last, by December, up under the last 10 or 15 episodes. I'd just been going through the
motions and I wasn't particularly happy with it. So I said, there's an opportunity here. We either
put an end to the podcast because why go through the motions or it's a new year there's a chance to
hit the reset button go big uh and because i didn't have enough on my plate i decided
no for whatever reason i decided to go big which is um i've upped the production quality
so previously it was just like get a couple of tracks throw them in garage band just scrub you
know the beginning and the end and then toss it up on fountain the next day um now it's i've uh
actually upgraded to logic on my mac which is a you know really production grade uh post-processing
software up the production quality on the audio getting um more guests I started adding music to my show independent music You can pick guys like Joe Martin Longhi and others
You could play a track.
And the beauty is,
as long as it's a track that's on Fountain,
which has all the tracks
that are part of the open music ecosystem,
if someone boosts your show during the song,
you could set the split
majority of the split to go to the artist
so I've set it at 90% during the song
goes to the artist
and the same thing if they're streaming
if someone's streaming 100 sats per minute
let's say
when the song isn't playing
the host gets the 100 sats
but when
the song is playing the host gets 10 sats
and the musician gets 90 sats
just for that duration
it's a really cool piece of tech
that's out there.
It's called Value Time Splits.
So I started doing that for a couple of shows.
And I said, hey, I really like this.
So let me launch a separate show.
That's only music.
So that's called Sunday Brunch.
I've recorded three episodes so far.
I have the next three or four slotted already,
guests booked for that.
And that show is brunch time on the East Coast on Sunday.
I get up.
I have a guest who brings five of their tracks.
They play them, I play one.
We just have lighthearted banter, you know.
As lighthearted as banter between Bitcoiners can be.
Next thing you know, you're talking about chemtrails
and military industrial.
But we try and keep it as lighthearted as possible.
It's fitting for a Sunday brunch.
Just play the music, they talk about the songs,
and we just have a good time.
It's a great way of showcasing the artists in this open music ecosystem, supporting them.
So that's Sunday Brunch.
And then because I'm focused so much on Web of Trust, I have a third show, a more technical one called Say What, W-O-T, Web of Trust.
And there I talk to developers.
And it's a slightly more, I guess, serious show.
It's not about culture.
It's not about music.
It's just about what is the tech that you're building.
And let's talk about that.
So three shows, it's all on the same RSS feed.
And then the other thing I've done is I'm opening,
because now with three shows, it's a network, right?
It's not a podcast anymore, it's a network.
So I'm opening it up to guest hosts.
So maybe one of these days, Daniel,
you could guest host either Sunday brunch or,
yeah, maybe Sunday brunch.
Nice, yeah.
I think I would call my episode Desert Island Dicks.
and people bring along their,
a couple of their favorite songs.
And then we talk about like the three dicks they'd like to send to a
desert Island.
I'm pretty sure Peter Schiff would probably be one of those,
but yeah,
there's,
there's the shtick for that show.
There you go.
Yeah.
So,
but yeah,
but that is the idea.
I just expanded out into a network,
get guest house every now and then,
you know,
they keep the majority of the booths and streams that come in.
and um and then we keep going but it is it it brings me to an interesting point daniel that
when i've doubled and tripled down on the podcast i think we would we and some others were chatting
about this um i've spoken to the guys at the bugle and a few others as well who have podcasts
numbers are down man number going down well we were joking that's what i said at the beginning
when we're joking with lauren nobody's listening to podcasts anymore but yeah my numbers are down
And this is something that I don't worry about.
It's not like I ever did the podcast just to smash the numbers, bro.
It's because I love doing it and still do.
So long may that last.
Otherwise, like you, if I ever get to the point where I'm not enjoying it anymore
and I find myself just going through the motions,
I'll firstly just pair it all the way back and maybe just do one or two episodes a month
or in the end you just you just sail off into the wind like so many have before us that have
bought so much great content uh I'm I miss the I miss the show still to this day and uh yeah I
you know John Vallis uh I used to listen to John all the time considering him a great friend
and I want him to start up his podcast here,
but he will when he's ready.
You know, he's only doing it.
And this is back to like,
you're not just a cog in the machine.
You're in charge of your time.
And unless you've got outrageously large contracts
with certain sponsors of the show
that are demanding certain views and clicks
and all of that, which I've never done
because that just sounded also fiat in the first place,
then you could be considered a bit of a cog in the machine.
Otherwise, yeah, we're just doing this generally
because it interests us.
And I wonder what the current landscape is out there right now
because if I, like, I've spoken to you, Benny Sessions,
you've spoken to the Bugle guys,
spoken to a handful of others and uh and everyone's saying and people are hosting on different areas
as well so you know not everybody's on fountain which you should be as a bitcoin podcaster by the
way anybody listening support the guys that are building the fucking tools to get us out of this
freaking hell pit amazing job by the way yeah amazing job nick and oscar thank you for everything
so yeah what's the feel out there
I mean I'm talking to Bitcoiners
I don't want to be the
I don't want to sound like Nick Carter
you know I talk to founders every day
I talk to Bitcoiners every day
and the people I'm around are grounded
and they're forever bulls
it seems something's happening out there
in the general landscape
that is confusing people, knocking them off track maybe?
What are you feeling?
I sense something that I haven't sensed before in Bitcoin.
And I'm hoping it's just an unnecessary projection
or worry that I'm having.
Because if you remember, Daniel, when was this?
When the SPF thing happened with FTX
and we hit the bottom of that bear market,
2022, right?
November, December, 2022.
Bitcoiners were energized then.
That was the worst of the bear market.
That was when,
so a few weeks after that,
Jack Dorsey put the money,
donated all the money to NOSTA,
so everyone joined NOSTA,
and there was a lot of optimism and building
that happened in that bear market.
And you would have thought at that time,
everyone would be demoralized,
Like this is, you know, all the bad stuff, Terra, Luna, Celsius, culminating in FTX, and some other smaller implosions in between.
You would have thought that would have wiped any optimism out.
In fact, it was the other way.
It had the opposite effect.
so i don't remember in the eight or nine years i've been involved in this
that where it's felt this tepid it's oh it's it's not that people are demoralized it's not
that apathetic that's the sense i'm which is worse i think than being demoralized
yeah yeah i can't put my finger on it last year was last year was a tough year
people took some kicks like we had the the core knots debate that just ripped apart
the community that ripped apart old friendships that brought into question in people's minds
certain people that perhaps they held a lot of a lot of hero slaying seems to be going on
and maybe that's just all part of it.
And then the Bitcoin treasury company,
like, humping that balloon up all over the place.
I think that was worse to me than the core knots debate,
and I think more damaging to Bitcoin than the core knots debate,
which is unpleasant in its own right,
but the financial engineering,
And it was like the 2017 ICO market.
You were there for that, Daniel.
But this was worse because at least with the ICO market,
you could distance yourself from it saying,
well, these are all shit coins.
This was becoming a fundamental part of Bitcoin
or at least being portrayed as that.
conferences that we respect and trust
were putting these people on a pedestal.
Yeah, I think in some sense,
the treasury financial engineering stuff
is more insidious and more harmful to Bitcoin.
Yeah.
And again, a lot of hero slaying going along with that.
And I just want people to understand,
like fear around and find out.
we didn't even touch on the loaning
because all of a sudden
alongside the Bitcoin treasury companies
you had a lot of loan products getting released
and
look, people can do whatever they want with their money
it's their decision to make
and it's not our burden to bear
but people just rush into these things
I feel sometimes
and get over their skis and rather than let things just play out and be careful and stay humble and stack sats and just have more Bitcoin in self next month if you possibly can
and if you enter into financial engineering games it's a very you are a minnow in that game
because there's so much fiat floating around in the Bitcoin treasury companies,
on Wall Street, in the ETFs, in the loan products.
Because the loan products, especially if you're parking Bitcoin in order to be given fiat,
that fiat's got to come from somewhere.
There's got to be a liquidity provider behind the loaner.
And whether that's venture capitalist companies that are trying to leverage the Bitcoin craze, it's not coming from a place of people who understand fundamentally what's going on.
It's coming from a place of people like, oh, I can lend out fiat and get 12% back.
And if they don't pay me back, I can get their Bitcoin and that's all great.
So who's taking the risk?
You are.
And it needs.
But I think it's great in some sense, though, because it allows us to separate the chaff from the grain.
The people rushing into it, it's obvious they're in it for the fiat gains all along.
And the fact that it's a Bitcoin treasury company, it's a Bitcoin product,
they think it's giving them that fig leaf, that veneer of, oh, at least I'm not shit coining.
but the fact that you run headlong
into this financially engineered
product that is
the polar opposite of
Bitcoin and self-custody or using
Bitcoin as a medium of exchange
you reveal the fact that you're in it for the
fiat gains otherwise why would you be doing it
you're not here to play the long game
you're not here for
the cultural revolution
you're here for making a quick
buck and then buggering off and buying your yacht or whatever it is so in in some sense it's good
i think that it allows us to uh to see people in their in their true light uh and then cut cut
them out of our lives i guess yeah yeah so it's it's been a it's been a rough ride it's been a
rough ride the last year so yeah is it exhaustion is it uh apathy as you say is it uh
people just like rage quitting and um like gonna go and concentrate on something else
who knows uh but it's it's tangible for sure i am yeah all right let's leave it on an optimistic
note uh 2026 what have you got planned where can people get to meet you in real life will you be
filming in any of the conferences?
Is there anything you want to shill
anywhere that you might need some help
if anybody has been inspired
by listening to this conversation?
Yeah, look, I am actually very optimistic
about 2026 in the work that I'm doing
because that's the one thing I can control.
So I'm, irrespective of the numbers being down
and even if they stay down,
I'm doubling and tripling down on the podcast.
So there will be a lot of that,
a lot more music, a lot more entertainment
and a lot more deep discussions on the podcast side.
Hopefully, if I find the time,
there will be a third book in the 24 series
that will come out.
Fingers crossed that I can actually make it happen this year.
Then with Finding Home,
I have a lot of subjects,
meaning people in different places.
the next one I really want to do
is in Bosa, Sardinia.
There's an amazing character.
You know him.
The English expat
who lives there.
Amazingly colorful character.
I'd love to film there.
There's someone in Bulgaria.
There's folks in Roatan,
in the Honduras,
in Argentina.
So there are multiple locations
that I do want to film in.
Austin as well, in the US.
I think the thing is
I just had to work through
again this is a show that runs on
at least at this stage on patronage
I mean there's
the last few
the first couple were out of my pocket
the last two I did find patrons
who are the directors
executive directors I should say
for the show
so I'm inviting
people to participate if you like
the idea of finding home and shining
a light on this and you would like to participate as an executive producer,
reach out to me.
So they're certainly looking forward to making a few episodes of that.
NOSFabrica, Web of Trust, I think this is the year of Web of Trust on NOSTA.
I think the user experience is going to elevate significantly
with improved curation and discovery and spam mitigation
as well. And then where will I be?
I haven't
oh here's one thing
I was talking about
meet space
Belgrade
I've been working
with a group of folks
to do a Valley for Value
music fest
in Belgrade
in Serbia
it's the week
after BTC Prague
so
as soon as Prague is done
get on the train
or motorbike
or whatever it is
get yourself to Belgrade
there's going to be
an amazing
Valley for Value
music show there
we have a great
lineup of bands
we have the
we found funding
to cover the venue.
We're still working
through some sponsors
to make sure our artists get paid,
which is really important,
by the way.
There's another thing
I should point out, Daniel.
Roger 9000, who I mentioned,
is making a case for this,
which is so many Bitcoin conferences
get musicians to play
and they expect the musicians
to travel on their own time,
pay for their hotels.
And if they get a few sats
in the value for value concert,
then, hey, that's your prize.
And I think that needs to change.
And we want to lead by example
in the Serbia concert where we will raise enough money
to ensure that the artists get paid.
And of course, their costs are covered.
So that's something to look forward to.
It's going to be a great show.
The bar is called Zappa.
It's a floating restaurant on a wharf in Belgrade.
Amazing location.
Zappa bar, what better place for a Valley for Valley concert?
So that'll be around the 20th of June, you say?
18th and 19th of June.
18th, 19th of June.
straight off to Prague
will you be in Prague?
I'm not sure yet
because my
Ishan is going to be
spending the year abroad next year
on an exchange
program so might want
to spend some time with him
before he leaves
absolutely
family first mate
that June
there's the
Bitcoin Film Fest in Warsaw.
There's Prague the week after that.
And then there's Belgrade right after that.
So it's, if I could, I'd be in Europe for the whole of June.
For now, it's looking just like Belgrade.
Right. Okay.
Mate, that's a great, great shill.
And yeah, so for people, that'll be on Club Orange as well, that event.
And they'll be able to go and look at that and sign up to it,
get tickets buy tickets um through that and uh yeah meet space it's where we need to go
so much great stuff can happen obviously on the conversations that we have the podcast that you
listen to the hackathons that you might throw over you know the internet but it's so much different
when you get together in yeah physical space together in real life scenarios
uh it's just um yeah could you compare a hackathon online where you're just the dude literally in
your bedroom or like 50 people in in a big hall together all bouncing ideas around each other
i mean it's just obvious right so yeah it's going to be more more uh proactive and with the music
that's awesome yeah i remember i remember that idea being generated uh and here you guys are and
i think uh even somebody asked uh prince philip he's like yeah dude can we do it at the palace
yes they did i think it's a little complicated so we picked the next best thing which is a bar
called zapper perfect absolutely love it all right mate well i hope people reach out if they're
interested to connect and uh and go check out pleb chain radio where um you're obviously hosting
with fountain and all listeners please switch your listening habits get off spotify and apple and
start you know really leaning into the the projects and the tools that have been built by big companies
out there yeah love it thanks daniel oh hang on the orange pill question oh yeah i forgot i almost
And of course, you've answered this before, and I'll never remember.
But if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody, who would you give it to and what?
Last time I said someone like a Cristiano Ronaldo, because he has enough of a following.
I should have prepared for this question, Daniel.
So should have I, it turns out.
Which is, you know, I think that's a reasonable answer.
my last answer
because you give it to a large
node with a lot of followers
and then they can bring their followers into the fold
who would I
give
the last orange pill to
that's nothing
same answer oh dear i can't saying the same thing would be a cop art wouldn't it
um i think you'd be the first person to do that yeah i'd give it to cristiano ronaldo again
because the last time i gave him it didn't work he's he's doing some nonsense with binance
yeah some nft bullshit right yeah yeah i mean the thing is look he's an athlete like what do they
know right like they they do whatever their agent tells them they barely have the time to
think about the stuff that we think about um okay i'm stonewalling here
uh dear god it's got to be someone i'd give it to why my uncle bob
I guess sure yeah yeah keep it close to home yeah why not close to home yeah why not and you have
no idea the ripple effects that uncle bob would unleash right indeed all right mate well great
to have you again take care and look forward to catching up again soon in real life somewhere
yes will do cheers mate thank you guys for listening i can't believe i didn't think of
this at the time i was interviewing avi but instead of alice sends x to bob we now have
to update that meme to avi sends x to bob and that being uh uncle and grokking Bitcoin Thank you for listening As always it 2026 off to a flyer in the Bitcoin space
If you are reeling at the noise on the socials, try and always remember the underlying ethos
is stay humble, stack sats, self-custody your Bitcoin, and educate others.
Keep up today as much as you can with what's going on in the latest debates.
If it's way over your head, I have 100% empathy with you.
Everything is moving so, so quickly.
It's impossible to keep up with.
I'll do my best to find some voices to bring on the podcast that you might not have heard about
before and talk about it and dig into these topics give me some time I've got some thoughts
so that is something to look out for over the next couple of weeks meanwhile I'll keep
interviewing plebs from all around the world such as Avi who's building who's doing stuff
connecting people it's incredible to see once you get out there and start meeting
Bitcoiners in real life it's incredible to see what is going on in people's lives
and where Bitcoin is leading them what projects they want to start and whether
or not you get inspired to start something too which hopefully you will because this is in the end how we win just mass adoption and getting in front of real life people is the way to do that
conferences this year we've got some coming up uh they're getting announced all of the time
you can follow them on orange pill app which is now club orange by the way uh because they have
all the events on there there's an events tab so that's the best place to go to keep up with
with all of your local events, what's coming up, where it's going to be,
and you can buy tickets directly there as well from your wallet in Sats.
So it's a one-stop shop.
You don't have to keep jumping around all of the different places,
all of the different sites.
Just flip open Club Orange, formerly Orange Pill App, now Club Orange,
hit the Events tab and figure something out.
Find out who's going.
And the cool thing is as well, as soon as you get to a place,
a new city, the group chat of that city opens up. So all of the people that are traveling there
will be in that group chat. But what's cooler is all the people that live there are in that group
chat and you can just throw a question straight in the chat and you got a response. And you can
find individuals obviously and go out for coffees, beers, steaks, red wine, whatever it is. So it's
definitely worth your time and effort to go and check out Club Orange. There is a link in the
show notes go find us on there there's almost 20 000 bitcoin is the app it has been running now for
two uh two years four months i believe so coming up on a two and a half year anniversary so congratulations mateo and the rest of the team over there Conferences that where I was
Sorry, I lost my train of thought.
In May, there's going to be a conference in Dublin, in Ireland.
You can hit the link in the show notes.
Use the code BITTON for a 10% discount.
In June, we have BTC Prague.
It's going to be the fourth running of BTC Prague.
it's one of the most well attended best biggest conferences in europe and prague is a beautiful
place you know just walking around the old town getting lost in the back streets and just sitting
down finding a beer and some food sharing that with bitcoiners that's a is a great way to spend
a weekend so btc prague again use that code bitten get yourself a 10 discount and then btc
hell in Helsinki is scheduled for September the links are in the show notes go or the orange
orange pill up formerly formerly orange pill up club orange uh so go get your tickets use the codes
use the code bitten get your discounts and yeah I look forward to seeing you either one of those
at some point over the year uh thanks for listening keep boosting and uh streaming on
Fountain. If you're not listening over on Fountain, switch up your listening habits. Get over there.
It's a Bitcoin enabled app built by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners. And there are a couple of British
lads as well. Well done, Nick and Oscar. Thank you everybody for listening. I'll catch you on the next show.