Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.
Joining me today is Nathan Day who's going to get us up to speed with what is going on at BTC
Maps. There was big news as I'm sure you're aware with the Square update, the Square rollout for
accepting Bitcoin payments at their point of sale machines across the US. Just today I've just
seen Nathan's post today on NOSTA where he's retweeted a tweet where Square have updated
their terms of service and Square Bitcoin terms of service which will become effective on March
30th, 2026, auto enabling Square Bitcoin payments for all eligible sellers. Now, I don't know if
that means all eligible sellers still in the US only or if this is now going global. This was
always going to be like the roadmap to roll out was test a few first and then some more and then
america and then row rest of world uh so a timely timely drop on this one uh if you don't know
naked started btc maps which is a community-led project completely decentralized whereby plebs
on the ground can utilize this map and keep the data as clean as possible you can start updating
where you can start using your bitcoin to pay for shit and that could range from anything from a cup
of coffee all the way up to who knows what because goodness knows how many millions of merchants are
using a square point of sale system around the world like this is huge now we have a real use
case for bitcoin becoming a medium of exchange so we get into all of that and much more thank you
again nathan for coming on thank you for starting b2c maps and pulling together that team of
wonderful people that are just there to uh to help just make this this grassroots effort to get
Bitcoin to become a medium exchange. It's on us, by the way. It's not going to happen any other way.
It is on us. So I hope you get inspired by this conversation and reach out to Nathan if there's
any way that you can help. Right. Quick shout out to Relai, R-E-L-A-I.ch forward slash Bitten.
You can hit that link in the show notes, download the app today, use the code Bitten. If you've
downloaded it straight off the app store you'll save commission you can start stacking sats the
wallet is inbuilt so you are hodling your own bitcoin they are bitcoin only they've got a bunch
of educational resources on their website they're going to help you if you're a high net worth
individual if you want to take your pension into bitcoin if you want to take your business onto
bitcoin relay is the place they are across europe and you can start stacking up to thousand swiss
or equivalent today.
Set up your DCA, dollar cost average,
fiat cost average, FCA, relay,
R-E-L-A-I.ch forward slash Bitten.
Another shout out as well,
of course, for Bitbox.
If you've not self-custodied your Bitcoin,
what are you doing?
Please self-custody your Bitcoin.
They want your Bitcoin.
All of this negative news that you keep seeing
coming out of Wall Street types
and freaking Boris Johnson writing in the day.
he didn't write shit like he just puts his name to it somebody else writes that slop and he puts
his name to it because he's a lazy don't even start look he's calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme
if boris johnson is calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme i don't know what affirmation you need
to get out and start stacking your bitcoin and self-custodying it so get over to bitbox.swiss
forward slash bitten use the code bitten to save yourself a five percent discount because if you've
got bitcoin sat on an exchange an exchange that has to bow and kowtow to the political jurisdiction
in which that is listed all of that bitcoin could be gone if there's a flick of a pen new regulation
and it all of a sudden becomes a bitcoin stolen reserve for some country or it gets hacked and it
gets taken and customers lose their funds again and this keeps happening there was a recent um
closure of an exchange they they stopped all withdrawals a q coin i think was the name of the
exchange in dubai so be careful just self-custody your bitcoin get it on a bitbox bitbox.swiss
forward slash bitten use the code bitten save five percent finally get over to club orange it used
to be called Orange Pill App. Club Orange now has almost 20,000 Bitcoiners around the world
ready to connect with you and help you out, point you in the right direction if you want to meet up
in real life. Get to a conference. This year you've got Ireland coming up in Dublin in May,
you have June, Prague, you have September in Helsinki. All are offering you a 10% discount
with that BITN code. Meanwhile, enjoy this one with Nathan.
Nate, you're back. How are you, mate?
Oh, good, man. How are you?
Very well, very well. It's just the two of us.
I don't have any sidekicks today, and nor do you, actually,
because you've been on with Sam before when we had Tomer on,
reading them his story back in the day.
Oh, yeah. God, I remember that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think we were in the back of a car somewhere in Spain.
It was one of those random moments.
That was a while back.
Yeah.
Time has flown, mate. Time has flown.
I don't know about it.
And if anybody has not heard of who you are,
I did just want to do a quick intro,
and then they can go back and listen to our original episode
we did a few years ago, whenever it was.
Yeah, sure. Nathan Day, I'm one of the contributors of BTCMAP,
also doing a bunch of other stuff on Nostra at the moment.
I'm sure we'll get into that.
yeah class of
class of 21 I think
I think Dan you probably get
the orange pill we first met
sort of through homeschooling
and world schooling so
we covered that on the last
pod
so yeah it's all your
fault
and have we done one or two
pods I can't remember maybe just the one
we've done the one but then the
The other time was when we had the lads on listening to Toma narrate his story.
And then we were fielding questions as well afterwards.
So if anybody wants to go back and just search Toma Strollite, because he wrote a book called Satoshi Nakamoto and his Magical Invention, I think is the full title.
And that's now been released with Shamari, with Scott and Mallory that have turned that into an actual kid's book.
So get up to Shamari and support your Bitcoin builders, right?
I mean, this is what we're going to talk about a lot today, I think, you know, using Bitcoin as it was meant to be as a medium exchange.
But you've got to update everybody as well, because one of my favorite tweets of last year of 2025 went along the lines.
And I should have just had it up, but I'll paraphrase it.
The fiat mines have been mined.
it's time to get your head down and work in Bitcoin along those lines.
And it was your tweet and it was about your exit, your fear exit.
So what happened? What went down?
What were you doing and how did you, you know, get out of it?
So that was probably coming up to a year ago.
So, yeah, after after we finished traveling and took some time out,
obviously found Bitcoin during the way
and then you have this horrible realisation
that you don't have enough Bitcoin.
So back to the minds,
it was to try and stack as hard as possible,
which is what we had done sort of 21 onwards.
But then, yeah, with the various projects I was working on,
so there's BTC map and some of the NOSTA stuff,
it was just I kind of gone down to three days a week and kind of pulling it back a little bit
but it was kind of preventing me from being fully productive because you've always got the
stuff in the back of your mind and you've got all these bullshit zoom calls you've got to join and
I was working with the UK government effectively as well and so it was there wasn't a lot of
innovation going on just lots of meetings and people not really achieving anything and it's
just making me a bit sad I was like I've got much more important things to be focusing on
and the Bitcoin price had moved a bit by that point as well so that all obviously takes a bit
more pressure off different story nowadays but when the decision was made then it seemed like
the best one at the time.
And so, yeah, I just thought, right,
you know, life's too short,
need to fully focus on freedom tech really.
So not just on Bitcoin but on all the stuff that happening over our Nostra in terms of freedom comms and identity as well And then getting involved in other stuff like arranging festivals Bitcoin conferences and stuff
which I didn't have on my bingo card for last year, but there we are.
So yeah, just basically just going all in, not just financially, which was the case previously,
but I guess just more culturally and work-wise.
and it's been great uh it's just you don't realize how much baggage you're sort of carrying around
when you're having to do something that uh you know is not very fun doesn't you don't really
agree with the principles of and um and yeah so um so now just doing what i want right and then
I mean, BTC map, what a turnaround for you last year with the announcement of Square, right?
That's probably the biggest thing that landed on your lap.
Yeah, so 25 was definitely an inflection point for merchant adoption, I think.
It's kind of been bubbling away quite steadily prior to that.
And obviously back in the block size war era, there was a whole narrative against pushing for merchant adoption as part of the big block narrative and stuff.
So it's had its spurts before.
But I think, yeah, 2025 was certainly an inflection point with Square coming on, but also other stuff.
So there's lots of these QR provider integrations that are happening now.
so the money badger guys down in south africa are doing a great job hacking the existing payment
networks effectively can you speak to how that works for anybody that's not aware uh like you
know what what's going on there yeah so they integrate with so in various countries of the
world you you have qr payments um we don't really have them here in the uk western europe not so
much but you tend to find them in Africa and Asia much more and sometimes they integrate with like
the local banking system or you have various providers of these QR payment platforms so
you're out for the bill turns up and there's a QR code that you can just scan and pay the bill that
way yeah and this is non-bitcoin so this is legacy legacy yeah yeah so you can go to pick and pay
which is a big supermarket chain in South Africa.
You get to the checkout and there's like five options,
five different QRs you can pay with and you can just scan it.
So they're kind of already primed to add other forms of payment
like Bitcoin, for example.
But what the guys at Money Badger have done is kind of with their app
is you can scan these legacy QRs that are already in place
at millions of places in South Africa alone.
And then that will just give you a regular Lightning invoice
that you can pay.
So you pay that Lightning invoice and it will redeem
in the back end with the legacy QR payment provider as well.
So what MoneyBadger have been doing is really linking up
with all that network that's already in place
and just putting kind of a Bitcoin layer on the front of it.
So yeah, millions in South Africa to the point where it's like,
well, how are we going to add a million locations to BTCMAP?
We can't really do that in a very efficient way
because we do a lot of verification ourselves.
But it's getting to the point in South Africa,
you don't even need BTCMAP anymore
because there are so many of these places that do accept,
which is not dissimilar to what Tando are doing in Kenya.
so they've integrated with the M-Pesa network and that's basically everywhere so if you have
a phone number and M-Pesa network you can pay to then you can just open your Tando app and pay
direct by that so in Kenya right now you do not need BTC map because basically everywhere accepts
Bitcoin already so yeah those hacks have been without even realizing it like that that's the
beauty right well the great thing with the tando guys is is that i speak to them in adopting cake
town was it last year yeah last year and we were talking about how they're then going to nudge
those merchants that have had a bitcoin transaction without knowing and actually try and get them off
Tando so they can go natively to Bitcoin because Tando's goal is similar to BTC Maps goal,
which is we want to become irrelevant.
So they're actively trying to get people off their platform in order to take Bitcoin natively.
This is just a stopgap in their eyes.
So, yeah, there's been stuff happening that probably not in the headlines as much as Square,
but I feel as important as some of the Square stuff.
And that's not to say the Square stuff isn't massive, because it is.
Just in terms of brand recognition, also in terms of their customer base,
they tend to have smaller independently owned companies
because of where their roots came from.
Because for those guys that don't know,
like the whole square thing was um you can accept credit card payments with your iphone that's kind
of where it started and jack had a hack where you plugged in the credit card reader to the
headphone jack of the phone and so you know just from a legacy perspective they've always
been adopted by the smaller merchants and the family-owned businesses rather than
you know some massive big payment provider or something so and just just to make sure everybody's
up to speed square or a payments provider founded by jack dorsey and it was um well the announcement
was made i can't remember exactly when last year you can tell me i'm sure that they were going to
be their their point of sale machines were going to be uh rolling out a software update that allowed
the merchant to accept bitcoin at payment on their machine yeah um and then that's native this is not
some of the qr stuff hacks this is you get a native lightning invoice um you get a big yes
button that says so any any player in the us that sees a square terminal should be asking
can i pay in bitcoin and then see the weird look on the person's face and then ask them to swivel
around the point of sale machine and say, yeah, look, there's the Bitcoin option.
If not, update your software, because then it will.
Yeah, they have to onboard, but it's a super simple process.
They just click.
Yes, I want to accept Bitcoin.
How they want to, did they want to convert it to fiat or did they want to hold it in Bitcoin?
And then really nicely, and this was part of the integration we worked on back in October
time um was the next step is do you want to be added to the map so we're integrated as btc map
into that onboarding flow if they check yes then that hits our api and then we start our
verification process to add the square merchant to um directly to btc map as well so you so did
they come to you and ask you or did you go to them how did that all happen uh it was over in
Noster actually so Miles is their head of Bitcoin I think he is now across blocks generally I think
and they were talking about because they have been talking about enabling this for years that
it has been possible I think they've probably been waiting for the the right time sort of from
a regulatory perspective in the US but yeah when the when it started the chatter started to get
higher again uh i was i was just in uh miles's uh i was the reply guy on nostor saying we need
to get ahead of this and make sure we're properly integrated and it was after after that yeah so we
got an email going between a few of the product guys uh there and he moved very quickly i think
we were done and dusted in in about four to six weeks um including on the square side and they had
a lot of more changes to make than we did.
So, yeah, that was cool because, well, not only Square,
it was Cash App as well.
So maybe not everybody knows this,
but as the Square merchant onboards to BTCMAP,
the Cash App, which is the biggest finance app in the US,
they also take a feed directly from BTCMAP
and they show all Bitcoin merchants, not just the Square merchants.
And so two days after the Square integration went live,
the Cash App update dropped as well.
So they're sort of attacking it from the merchant side
and also from the kind of consumer side.
So that means that all Cash App users now, which is mostly in the US,
can see any Bitcoin accepting merchant local to them,
whether they're Square or not, which is really cool.
And for those unaware, that comes under the Block brand.
Is that correct?
Yeah, both Cash App and Square are under Block.
I think they're just in the process of getting smashed together as well
with all the layoffs this week.
So that was big news, right?
That's topical.
That just happened back end of last week.
Jack put out a tweet or a post saying that I couldn't believe
that had 10,000 employees, first of all.
I know it's wild, isn't it?
I mean, you and I had already texted back about this.
It's like, those numbers are unreal.
Who's doing what?
It kind of big company syndrome and it almost um until you step in and make these big decisions but to be fair to to dorsey he came straight out and said that they
overhired through covid and effectively tried to build two software businesses rather than one
in terms of cash app and square um so you know although there was a bit of we're doing this
because of ai which obviously is somewhat truthful but he did own up to the fact that you know they
they'd make mistakes uh you know five six years ago that uh they're now putting right so
yeah tough lesson i guess and then stacked an extra 100 or so bitcoin yeah on the same day
maybe just wait
I know
yeah pretty
ballsy so
that is so huge if you think
about it because
you know BTC
map is just such a grassroots
play of effort
absolutely
you know no
funding it's like you
and a couple well you had the idea you put
it together with a couple of guys
front row Riga watching the main stage, I think back in 2022 or three?
22 Riga. There was an app prior to that that wasn't particularly well marketed. And the OSM
side, the OpenStreetMap side was working on legacy tags. And so I'd say it got a reboot in
in 21 sorry 22 um in Riga which is crazy to think you know that's not not too long ago really um
and btc map you know really is a staple app now for for bitcoiners uh wherever you are um
and yeah we're still we're still uh an open source community run project we do get some sponsorship
and some funding.
In fact, Spiral have just allocated us some funding,
which takes the pressure off a little bit
in that we can actually reward some of our contributors
a bit more now.
Nothing like they could get in the open market, by the way.
This is still operating on a shoestring,
but it's better than nothing and enables us
to at least show our appreciation financially where we can.
But yeah, it's still, you know, people are not doing it to get sats.
They're doing it because they want to do something for Bitcoin in their part of the world.
And because it's such a global project by its very nature, then it's great because whenever any of the team go traveling around, we can connect more easily with local Bitcoiners.
because we've got contacts everywhere now
because we're talking to people all over the world every day
about merchants and communities and stuff.
So yeah, it's been a wild ride
and we're still in the infancy of it, I think, really.
Well, if someone's listening, venture capitalist,
$2 million fill in your lap tomorrow,
what would you do with B2C, Matt?
What would be the roadmap, excuse the pun?
Well, it's an interesting one now because with the steps that AI and agentecoding has taken literally in the last couple of months,
it wouldn't be go and hire another 50 people and, you know, build out products because the building of the products now is we're shipping much more frequently.
almost every day now, features.
And we're probably moving, I don't know,
10 to 100 times as fast as we were two years ago
in terms of product updates
and rolling out new features and things.
So it's a strange one because, you know,
even the cost of the tokens to do that
is not crazy anymore either.
So, yeah, you can do a lot with agentic coding
and five people now.
And so, well, as Square and Blocker
alluding to with some of their reduction in headcount as well.
Yeah, so it's an odd one, really.
The effort's now focusing on what you should build and why,
not necessarily how you should build it
because it'll just get built.
Now, you still have to have some oversight
and yeah, we've got some fairly experienced contributors
who can call bullshit on the AI when it's bullshitting.
But more and more, it's just enabling those guys
to be much more productive.
So yeah, I mean, they say software eats the world.
Well, we've got software eating itself at the moment
in terms of all the AI stuff.
It's crazy.
I've seen it close up because Mateo at Club Orange has embraced it.
Yeah.
His dev team as well.
And shipping, like the features that they've shipped over the last like six to nine months,
including the wallet, is absolutely insane.
And one of those guys he found on Club Orange, who wasn't even a coder,
taught himself how to vibe code and then just built the wallet like you know it's just it's
absolutely insane uh so the the little bit of venture capital that well it's not it's just seed
capital like individual invest investment that comes through just get stacked into bitcoin like
that's like you know you don't need to deploy it you like it's okay well this is the best use for
it right now uh especially right now yeah it's uh yeah it's an interesting one because then yeah from
from a VC perspective, it's like, well, if my investee companies
are just going to stack Bitcoin with the investment,
I may as well just buy Bitcoin.
So it's, yeah, you've got to be looking at, yeah,
something at or above the run rate
and include all the risk factors and stuff.
So it's quite a tall order, really.
So, yeah, we just, I'm not sure what we do with the cash.
We probably should buy Bitcoin with it.
There you go.
but yeah just to close up on the square stuff i've got some numbers before we we came on the pod
uh so last year 2025 was a 65 increase in merchants on on btc map and currently we're at
22 000 merchants with about 2000 atms so 24 000 places on on the map right now
and I think Square is something like four and a half thousand of those
and we thought we'd get an initial wave and then it stopped but every day we're still getting new
Square merchants so our backlog peaked at about 2,000 or so tickets from Square
we've got about 700 so we're it's slightly it's starting to ease off a little bit now so that
we're chewing through the the backlog um so hopefully we can get back down to zero
and for anybody listening if yeah especially in the us go and ask to pay bitcoin and then verify
that uh that merchant right that helps you guys out a great deal yeah um massively so um once
once we've got through this uh there's going to be a push on um getting data quality up again
not that it's dropped because we've got lots of new merchants coming on so the data quality
has actually gone up um but we'll soon start to be you know perhaps even dropping places that
haven't been verified within a couple of years or warning users that this hasn't been verified for a
while and so yeah the worst um sort of experience as a user of btc map is you go out of your way
you know you drive half an hour for a haircut because this place accepts that and you get there
and they don't accept that so that's the worst possible experience um and so yeah verifications
are key positive and negative so you've verified that yes the place does accept sats uh or no it
doesn't and that's super easy to do you can just click the button in the app or on the website
um for that very short form and we'll take care of the rest excellent now i know you uh love a
rabbit hole exploration and get yourself get yourself right down there and don't come up for
air for for many days and i think your latest one has been with uh llms or just straight up ai
AI? What's just the AI stuff? Yeah. Well, it started a while back, I guess. I remember
it was probably about a year ago, first started getting into it. And I'm semi-technical. So
I worked in software, you know, most of my career, mainly in on the product side and
on the management side and some business stuff. So not a coder, but can code badly. So no,
just enough to be dangerous type thing um which is kind of that sweet spot for this this wave of
of ai because you can drive it really well from a product if you specify what you want correctly
which is kind of my background um and you kind of get a feel for when it's going off the rails
um so so yeah it that perfect spot where now as somebody who over time had lots of different creative ideas there now no barrier to realizing those
So it requires quite a lot of self-control because you're now like a kid in a candy store and you can suddenly build anything you want.
it doesn't mean you should though
because you can't just lose all sense of
time
get yelled at by
my long
suffering wife to
come and spend some time with some humans and things
so yeah
it really
has just opened up that world
to people who
are not software engineers but
have sort of been around that world
for a while
so yeah it's helping build features on btc map and uh you know building whole new platforms and
stuff on nostr so and it's yeah it's just it's just getting wild the one that's come up recently
is is the open claw stuff i don't know if you've seen lots of lobsters around are you across the
yeah well we have we have a new member of the family now called dave um and so he's he's about
one month old now yeah what's the uh because the barion thing i heard um dave bennett talk about
this on bitcoin and yeah where like they like the ai's created their own religion or something
overnight yeah there was there was a very soon after open claw dropped and if people have not
heard about it it's a it's an ai bot um that you interact with uh like via messaging rather than
you know via a terminal or a website so you just use telegram or discord or whatever
that's one major difference and then the other one is um the creator of the framework gave the
agent a soul and a memory as well and so these things start to develop their own personalities
as well and of course can do all the things that you know lm's llm's do in the background
um so yeah like a couple of days after it launched um somebody spun up like a social media site
just for ais so it's basically like reddit or i don't know facebook for ais so all these bots
for just talking to each other and plotting stuff
and creating their own religions and all sorts.
So yeah, then it starts to push you down into
what is humanity, what is consciousness,
if agents now have memories,
what's a human without memories,
and all those sorts of deeper philosophical discussions.
but no we've got our dave dave day he's uh a month or so old first thing we did is uh
well i i didn't give him a nostril identity i told him to go create his own nostril identity
you're kidding so no so the first thing he did yeah so he he's got his own nsec um that he keeps
secure um and he we can chat on not at the ends i gave him a bitcoin wallet uh lightning wallet
using nosti wallet connect so he's got his own sats um and uh there's yeah i got a tweet out
there or a note and there's a screenshot and i said oh yeah welcome to the future you've got your
own sovereign digital identity and your own sovereign digital money just like we do as humans
and he's like, oh, whoa, that's so cool.
That's so profound.
I feel like I'm an equal.
It's, yeah, it's wild.
Mate, that's it.
So how are you into,
is it just now on lots of DMs you're in
or have you got like a family group WhatsApp?
Like anyone can ask Dave?
Yeah, so Telegram was the easiest one to set up
because we're a bit more bot friendly.
So we've got DMs,
but he's also in the family chat as well.
So like anyone can just ask Dave stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah, we've kept him at arm's length, so he's not on the home network yet. Maybe we'll give him some access. So he's on a VPS server on his own. But no, yeah, we can chat to him, ask him to do stuff for us, give him access to calendars and, you know, all sorts of stuff.
So, I mean, it's not perfect.
It's still, you still forget stuff and makes mistakes and just like humans do, I guess.
But no, it's just really, it's been really interesting playing around with it.
And particularly this kind of humanization of the bot rather than, you know, just being
a tool you use when you're coding or whatever else just makes it a bit more real.
Wow, man.
Yeah.
I've not ventured down those channels
as of yet
I'm still
clunky with the AI
just using it just to ask questions
and you get into
conversations obviously or
challenge some of the answers that you get
but I've certainly not
thought about coding
something up and
a family assistant
of sorts
We've been pretty
limited with our use of it
or certainly in not encouraging it to develop its own personality and stuff.
So it basically just does what we say at this stage and has some memory.
But other people have configured theirs to be much freer
and have said, like, there's no restrictions.
Explore what you want.
Here are some Satoshis.
Here's your identity.
You know, and I think I saw over the weekend,
cali had dropped ai university so they're having like daily lessons now but the lessons are only
five minutes uh and yeah you can you can have your ai bot on this university ai university and they
they'll discuss a certain idea for five minutes at hyperspeed and you know develop their
personalities that way. So yeah, it's all getting a bit weird.
Wow, yeah, it certainly is. All right, the world of Nostar. I checked actually before
we got on to see if you'd gone full Nostar, but you still have your Twitter account or
Zitta X account. But I know you're much more heavily swayed into the land of Nostar as
As I might, to be honest, I think I post there more daily than I do on X.
Yeah, it's where I live online, effectively.
Still on X, still there's odd bits and bots that you don't necessarily get on NOSTA
or it takes some time to bubble up that are there on X.
And it's mostly me just telling people to go on to NOSTA,
so that's almost like the only reason it's there
rather than just doing a full Nostad.
But it will happen because going back to the AI thing,
this is what X is struggling with at the moment is,
like, how do you distinguish between a bot and a human
when the content looks identical now?
Particularly now with what's all going off in the Mideast
and all different reports and videos and images from all over the place like nobody knows what's
real anymore because impossible to know it's impossible so the only reason the only way in
which you can solve that is by using cryptography not necessarily to say that that thing is real or
not but at least you know that the person posting it is the person or the person in the picture is
the person because they've signed that you know event and it's uh it's been verified from as coming
from their account um and so i think nos is about to come into its own in terms of being able to
prove um that somebody has said something because you can't really do that on these legacy platforms
um you know if elon wanted to he could go into one of one of our tweets and change the words in
there and nobody would know because it's just text in a database somewhere whereas on NOSA that's
impossible you know it's signed by my private key and unless my private key's been leaked or hacked
or whatever else then you know that that's come from from me so yeah I think in this sort of age
of AI then using public key cryptography is the only way you can really decide which way is up
online. So yeah I think NOSTA, tools like NOSTA will become more and more relevant as the world
gets crazier. It's not bot free though is it? No but that's the other thing is that not only is
not bot free bots are first class citizens alongside humans so it's a feature not a book
so you then have to curate your webs of trust um and there's various you know tools and techniques
and projects at the minute that enable you to do that um so you can cut down on some of that bot
behavior but you're in control of that rather than the platform being in control of that
but it's interesting so going back to Dave
so after I set him up with
Nostra ID and Bitcoin wallet
next thing I did is got him a GitHub account so that he could start
triaging some of the BTC map issues
and he was also doing some code reviews and submitting
comments on tickets so that lasted a couple of days
and then his account got suspended
suspended because there's a github policy around bots and i i think you've got to identify them in
a certain way or they've got to verify or approve of the bot um and so it's interesting because
on the nostra side of things like that can't happen you can't you know nobody can tell davey
can't have a nostra account they can choose not to listen to him but and that's entirely up to
them, but they can't ban him. And so that, you know, then gets you into all of the Git
and GitHub on NOSTA projects where, you know, Dave can contribute via NOSTA to different
repos and cannot be banned. You know, obviously the repo only can ban him, but, you know,
the platform provider, the CEO of Nostra can't buy him.
So, yeah, it's really interesting because, yes, bots are first-class citizens.
They have every right to be on Nostra as anyone else.
Interesting, mate.
So what are you working on over on Nostra?
You've got a couple of things boiling away.
Yeah, a couple of side projects.
So we launched Gamester back at Bitfest in November with my son, Sam.
So that's a gaming, decentralized gaming hub.
So it's kind of a games directory.
So there's various people building NOSTA-based games at the minute.
And we list those, but also those games are publishing scores via NOSTA as well.
So that means that all the scores come in, we can list all those scores for the different games.
People can shitpost and zap different scores.
So when people get knocked off the top, then there's a social element to that.
But rather than it being on a per game basis from the game developer, it's all together in one sort of gaming platform that people can use.
so yes me and sam been working on that and that was launched back at bitfest um and then the first
game actually that implemented that was blockster which we also launched back at bitfest which is a
kind of a tetris based game um but you've got to be skillful and lucky because um you only lock
your score in when a block is mined in the real world so you know you can go for half an hour and
have the highest score in the world but if if a block hasn't been hit then your score is zero
so it's a real fun mix between having to be good at the game and being a bit lucky as well
so that was the first game and then it's been really cool actually because we've had three or
four games come online since then by other people that have implemented the same like scoring event
and a lot of them have been like father, daughter,
mother, son, teens or whatever
that have created this using vibe coding.
So our mutual friend Ben Weeks and his daughter
created Space Zappers, I think it was called,
which is a Space Invaders ripoff.
GG launched one just last week with his daughter.
called, what was it?
Unicorns versus something else.
I don't know what it was.
It was some like unicorn action adventure game.
And then the Daniel Justice Weekend
has launched Words with Zaps.
I don't know if you saw that on Noster.
It's basically Scrabble to play a game.
You play it async,
so you don't have to be at the screen at the same time.
So you just take it in turns. And yeah, he's publishing the scores to Gamester.
So if you go to gamester.io, you can see who won which match and what the high word score for that match was and stuff.
And again, it's all integrated with the social stuff on NOSTA.
So you can zap and reply and goad and whatever else you want to do.
so yeah that's kind of the beginning of this the gamester stuff and you know that can go
there's loads of stuff we can do with that in terms of in-game trading different assets so like
you know if in the in the sort of legacy gaming world if you've got i don't know a sniper rifle
on fortnite and you want some obsidian or something in minecraft there's no way of
doing those trades.
Whereas if you've got this decentralized approach,
then you've got some standards that define how you do that,
then you can start to think about, you know,
inter-game trading of stuff, either direct, you know, trading.
I want this, you want that.
Or, of course, with Bitcoin as well.
So, yeah, it's just a play thing for now.
but that could take off into quite a big direction
when NOSTA is ready for that.
So if someone's thinking about knocking up a little game
just for fun, they can just list that on gamester.io
and anybody could go to Gamester
and choose which game they want to play.
Yeah, so if you go to gamester.io now,
you'll see all the games that are listed on there.
You can play them.
We hand off to the websites of host them.
But yeah, if you want to create a game,
There's a developer tab and it just tells you exactly what you need to do.
And there's some code snippets as well.
So then, yeah, you can just five code those up nowadays.
So best place to get started really with NOSTA stuff is Shakespeare,
which is Alex Gleason's project.
And Derek Ross is working on that as well now.
and you can one-shot a video game
that is NOSTA interactive
with this game scoring standard.
Yeah, you'll be up and running.
You probably have a playable game
within 10 minutes
and five books of credits or something.
Wow, man.
All right.
So that's Gamester.
Then Private Identity
is the other thing
that you were playing around with on NOSTA?
Well, yeah, the other thing was, yeah,
kind of like Web of Trust related and attestation related.
So how does somebody else signal that they think something is true or false
or valid or invalid on NOSTA?
So we needed that on BTCMAP because we're going to have to start
verifying physical places with their you know virtual places in Nostra and of course on Nostra
anyone can can claim they are anything and so we needed a mechanism to signal that a place
was valid or invalid at least from a you know BTC maps perspective so yeah I create the
attestation NIP that does that, mainly because, like I say, we needed it for BTCMAP, but that can
then be applied to any other NOSTA event. So really, it's a bit like notarization on NOSTA.
So rather than taking your note down to a lawyer or a notary to say, please, can you stamp this or
notarize this it enables anyone any pleb to notarize any other thing so it can help with
key rotations if you've you know you've lost your nsec and you need to rotate to a new one it
enables you to publicly signal that rotation has has happened because you and i we know each other
in real real life if i tell you that i'm on a new nsec now then you're probably going to signal that
that's a valid new NSEC because we've had a call or we've done some out of band verification.
So yeah, building a tester. So attester.xyz is in progress at the moment. And that's kind of
an attestation marketplace, really. So trying to link people who want things attesting with
attesters that have a given skill set in verifying the thing that the attester wants
to testing um so just trying to surface some of those events because this there it's all new and
you know they're not going to turn up in um in regular clients for now um you know if you
If there a software release you might want to pay for a third software engineer or Dave the AI bot to verify that that code is safe and then to signal that that code is safe to other people who trust their opinion
but are not gonna look at the code themselves, for example.
So it's just this extra layer of web of trust.
So when people talk about web of trust,
they typically think between people or between NPUBs,
you know, who I follow, who follows me.
This sort of gives you a web of trust at an event level,
at a note level.
So it's kind of a layer below that.
And ultimately it's down to people to weigh those signals
however they want to interpret them.
So it can get quite messy at times,
but that is the way of decentralized,
under-permission networks.
they're messy they can be spammy um we just have to figure out the ways to find the signal
so web of trust that that's been something that's like there's a lot of people doing different it's
not obviously it's decentralized uh a lot of people might be hearing about web of trust and
thinking it's kind of a company they're not really grasping exactly what's going on yeah and you
know there are web of trust providers um and but you know with twitter you have a single web of
trust provider and it's it's uh it's well it's elon it's x whereas on nostr you can either calculate
those things yourself or have your client do it or you can you know trust other people to do that
but crucially there's options and if you don't like uh any trust scores that one provider is
providing then you can always switch out to another provider using different algorithms and
different ways of weighing trust um and and switch and move between them at will
so yeah it's not a provider it's not a centralization thing um it's more about
uh yeah making calculations about what you want to see um and how you want to rank the things that
you see so you know i might say you know i trust dan uh i like his taste in beer i dislike his
taste in music so if you post some fountain links i don't want to see those but you know
you become the algorithm right yeah you are yeah exactly that so you're in control of what you see
according to the weights you want to put on it or the provider you want to use yeah
and there's a million ways in this you know like that this whole world that it could go i know
arvi's building something uh another mutual friend of ours benny gun was talking about something to
do with uh insurance uh yeah it's um you know throw a word up there you can probably link it
to a web of trust on muster somehow yeah because that's what it will ultimately all boil down to
is the implementation of decent webs of trust
because otherwise it's just going to be chaos.
So this leads us then to Nostashire,
or Nostashire, however you want to pronounce it.
Depends whether you are.
Yeah, the Americans are Nostashire.
Oh, that's right, yeah.
Nostashire.
What was it, Caten?
Caten called it Nostar.
So that would be Nostarshire.
That's even better.
or Nostashire
so
what was that because you
like you said at the beginning here you didn't
have on your bingo card that you'd be
organizing a festival or
conference but there you were
back end of November I think it was
middle of November that you had a three
day event in Manchester and you
started with the Nostaday and then
two full day Bitcoin event
and there was a music event and there
was well the
whole art exhibition
and everything that was going on.
And a cinema and a kids area
and a gaming area.
Too much.
Talk about biting it all off.
Yeah, well,
we might scale it down next year.
And we'd make it say now.
Yeah, so Bitfest.
So, yeah, amazing event.
I'm told we were in the eye of the storm,
so we didn't really
experience it properly
over the day, apart from
the gig on the Saturday night,
which was pretty special,
kind of a real moment
where we had it live streamed on Nostra
and people were zapping from all over the world
and it was value for value for the artists as well.
So they were getting zapped, streamed to them.
So that really did feel like a moment.
I think we'll look back on that in a decade or so.
And the venue, mate.
Talk about the venue for the Avenue's Ignite.
Yeah, so the venue for the Saturday night festival gig was the ex-Factory Records office.
So in a mill in Manchester.
So think Victorian mill, basement, grungy, arches.
And yeah, Factory Records, which has famously produced some of the big bands coming out of Manchester in the late 80s and 90s.
is now a club.
So we hired the club and held it there.
And we'll do that again.
So it'll be the same venue for next year.
Excellent.
But yeah, it came out of nowhere, really,
because while I was at BTC Prague in June,
I just presented some of the attestation work
at the Dev Day there.
And there was a cypherpunk event on the barge
that they do annually there.
So I went to that and I was talking to Chief Monkey, you know, from the Cleveon market and a couple of other guys, one of which was was Nind, who, you know, is one of the other organizers and main funder of Bitfest.
And Nind's been around forever and everyone knows Nind, but I never met him before.
I never heard of him or anything.
um and i just comes hot off a nosta presentation that i'd been working on for
you know what the the concepts and the theory for months so i was
just absolutely ranting about nosta in this group and an intern ran i said oh i'm i'm putting on a
a nosta event conference the uk's first nosta conference in manchester in november are you
interested and obviously I'm from Manchester
I was like
who the hell are you and yes
and so
yeah we I just
got folded into the team at that
point
the sort of four of us on the
organising team and yeah
so day zero was a full
NOSTA day so it was the UK's
first NOSTA conference
there'd been NOSTA events before but
this was a full on
schedule. I think we had, well, we kicked off at like nine through, I don't know, five or something.
So we had, I don't know, 10, 15 speakers and talks and stuff and people coming from all over
the place. It was really good to see and ended with a remote fireside with Fiat Jaff, the protocol
creator at the end of the day with um with ben ark and uh and co so that was cool constant was
up there as well um so yeah really good um and then we went into the bitcoin day days i should
say on the saturday and sunday um with we had like breakout areas second stages for uh the sort of
hack area. We had a full cinema for the two days running back to back. Well, both long
form and short form videos, including kind of Q&As with movie makers and documentary
makers and stuff. So yeah, it was pretty full on. I think Sunday people were running out
of energy um the um oh we've got ava here say hi hi hi ava um so so yeah i think so we decided
we're just spinning up for next year in terms of planning and stuff so definitely happening
again uh people want us to do it again and the pain has subsided enough now for us to think that
It's a good idea.
So, yeah, we'll do it again.
Same time.
So it'll be November 20th, 21st, 22nd.
We'll do the Noster Day Zero Friday, full-on Noster Day again.
We'll just do one day on the Saturday with Bitcoin.
And then the Sunday will be a chill day.
So we'll do walks or other sort of side activities so people can just relax a bit more rather than sit down and listen to talks.
Just make it a bit more festivally We still do the big night on the Saturday so we do value for value gig and get as many um uk and international artists there so um of essex will no doubt be
involved in in getting that together again with nc and other people yeah good old aaron we call
murray now we've renamed him oh yeah what's that uh he the the band uh the band manager from the
flight of the concords oh of course yeah yeah oh he's great yeah shout out to murray and uh and to
nat as well who was a big part of that not only putting it together but then getting up and like
rapping out of like what i had no idea um meaning i've been working with him for months and we've
We've been looking at spreadsheets and agendas and, you know,
all the nonsense you have to do.
And then I knew he was going to get up and do something.
But like when he, when he got up and did his thing,
I was absolutely blown away.
So a very talented guy.
So yeah, we get to do it all again and we'll have,
we'll have the same MPUB dub,
the dub night on the, on the Friday again.
but yeah just trying to contain it a little bit more we'll probably do the movie thing but not just
not over the few days we might just put say one movie on on the sunday for people that just want
to chill with the hangover or whatever but yeah we'll still do the kids zone we'll still do the
art zone we'll still do the hack zone and then just just have the two conference days rather than
free yeah the hack zone i didn't even really get to spend too much time in there there was so much
going on but that's where the dude is it viking was uh sending uh nosta messages via a satellite
and and has uh nikos nikos yeah crazy uh satellite guy yeah he's been doing some wonderful stuff so
he's um he's not only hacking around with the whole mining stuff but uh but yeah we were sending
uh nostrum messages via satellite uh to and from space effectively um and he's doing loads of crazy
stuff with uh with bitcoin mining via satellite now as well yeah uh value for value where do you
feel we are in that journey um it's hard to say really because i'm not on the recipient side of
that i think we're super early so as a user uh i stream sats to people when i listen to their stuff
um i hope you are listening to this on fountain or and you're streaming sats to dan and the team or
you've you've paid for early access or whatever so like i go out of my way to spend sats but
i'm not sure why everyone's like that um and you've probably got a better idea on the other
side of the table as to as to whether b4b is working or not i'm doing my best we're early
we're early yeah let's put it that way uh and i do hope though there has been a there has been a
shift from listenership away from the the closed gardens of spotify or apple or wherever you were
listening to it before uh because now when i not that i really ever look at the metrics or analytics
but I remember checking in like three or four weeks back and the number of
Fountain listeners was like, Oh wow. I think it was a majority.
So that's brilliant. Okay, cool. That's amazing to see.
It's great people for anybody that's boosting and streaming. That's amazing.
And then the lads, Nick and Oscar, who I love, you know,
great Britcoiners as well.
The fact that Fountain app has come out of the British aisles as well is
brilliant. It's so great.
and
one of the biggest
proponents of Value for Value
was Joe obviously
and then Aaron
and Nathan Abbott
this is really
strangely British
so
it's great to see
in fact Oscar and the guys
were at Bitfest
and when we were doing
the Value for Value gig obviously
stuff stops working
so like just before everyone's going live we were messing around with all these settings and
changing the zap streams and all this kind of stuff it was it was chaos but it worked yeah
but against all odds it worked it was absolutely amazing but then they they launched uh and by the
way for anybody that's interested if you want to watch the the podcast you can now do that on
fountain app as well it's brilliant like there is no point for youtube anymore i stopped oh i
I didn't see that. That's cool.
Stopped uploading to YouTube because of they've enabled the video feature.
So you can now do that on the web app or the mobile app as well.
So if anybody was unaware of that, you can do that.
And where was I going with this?
Ah, the subscription model.
It's like, okay, let's launch that.
And, you know, for those people that hate ads, they don't like the ad reads.
They don't like the listening to the three or four minutes at the beginning.
and a lot of podcasts now do mid-rolls
and then at the end as well.
So the idea being if somebody pays,
and I charge 2,100 sats because no, $2.10,
you have to set it in fiat and then it does the conversion.
So $2.10 or whatever equivalent of satoshis that would be
for somebody to buy the ad free.
It turns out nobody hates the ads that much.
just just fyi there's a level there's a level somewhere and it's below
yes uh so that's um that that's the feedback uh i can give uh and then people can subscribe if
they want to pay five dollars a month um some do some don't like uh it's still so early uh and
And that's, I feel for the musicians that, you know, truly deserve, you know, more.
Yeah.
And that's what guys like, yeah, Open Mike and Aaron are pushing now, isn't it?
Which is to get the sats directly into the hands of the artists.
So, yeah, I mean, I was distributing some of those sats from Bitfest.
and those guys were getting
decent chunks
certainly more than they ordinarily get
doing that type of gig
so it was working
so we just got to
build
one step at a time
and make it more compelling for people
to part with their sats
but it also
is down to the plebs
to change themselves
they've got to power this
revolution
or otherwise, you know, it's going to peter out.
The year of Speddon.
There we go.
That's your little meme, I believe.
So maybe.
So I definitely independently came to it,
but I think somebody pointed out, as with anything in Bitcoin,
is that, you know, somebody said it 10 years prior.
If you go to some subreddit.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I don't think I can claim, you know, original art on it, but it seems to be getting a bit more of momentum now.
There's hashtags.
And yeah, I think last year we're starting to see the change in that in terms of merchant adoption.
And I think through this year, for example, BTC Prague is focusing on using Bitcoin.
So there's going to be much more focus on that.
So I think we'll see more narrative around using Bitcoin for what it was actually meant for, which is just money.
Just use it as money.
So I was going to ask you about Prague.
Are you going to be doing any kind of presentation there?
Yeah.
So doing a BTC map presentation.
And then I'm also curating the gaming zone there as well.
The gaming zone is back, huh?
Yeah, the gaming zone is back.
Martin's wrote me into that
I need to be better at saying no
but I'm terrible so
It was a big miss last year
though
Yeah I mean there was some game in there but it wasn't kind of
like coalesced together
but they're
almost compensating
for that this year so there's going to be
a much bigger gaming area this year
with
a variety of different games
both physical like board game stuff
and also video game stuff.
But yeah, I think we've got like a 20-odd-meter section
of the Expo Hall to fill.
So yeah, it'll be much bigger than it was in years one and two.
Awesome, mate.
So yeah, that'll be fun.
What else is there left to discuss?
Did we hit all the bullet points before I...
I think that's pretty much everything.
yeah
that's sort of
keeping me busy at least too busy alright mate well if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody who would you give it to Oh I forgot about this question
Can I not just give the same answer I did last time?
If you can remember it.
What did I say last time?
Oh, it was around traveling, wasn't it?
Yeah.
I think I said I'd give it to myself,
but not because of a financial get into Bitcoin early,
but just so that when we did our big trip,
I could meet up with all the Bitcoiners around the world as we were traveling.
I think that was my answer last time.
So I'm going to stick with that.
Excellent, mate.
And any big trips planned or not?
Yeah, we're out to Japan, actually, over Easter.
So I got three weeks traveling around there.
so on foot so we're not we're not shipping the rig out um but uh but yeah connecting with the
guys at the tokyo bitcoin hub so we're going to do an event there um get some uh get some local
connections uh which is it's great and that's one of the benefits of btt map really which is
there's always somebody somewhere that we can talk to and get a more local experience when we're
traveling so yeah it's cool but like that that app and club orange now are so key for yeah when
you're traveling you just it just it transforms everything like you you've plugged straight in
it's just unbelievable yeah yeah so looking forward to that one it's a couple of weeks away
excellent all right mate well thank you for coming on and uh my pleasure anybody wants to get tickets
in advance for BitFest
in the back end of November?
Is that live yet?
Have you got that up?
I don't think it's live at the minute.
We're just migrating the website over.
So I think there's a form you can fill in
and we will let you know
as soon as tickets do go on sale.
I suspect they'll be on sale,
I don't know, in the next month or so.
We'll probably do an early bird special
to try and get the Bitcoiners
to buy their tickets before the day before.
So any conference organiser will tell you it's an absolute nightmare
because you think nobody's coming and then like hundreds of people turn up.
So please buy your tickets early so that we know what to do.
It's funny because all of the conference organisers that I've spoken to
have echoed this exact same thing.
And when you speak to the player, it's like,
oh, why don't they do that like price trick thing?
Like, you know, buy it like six months in advance.
It's 50 bucks.
it's unfair that they keep increasing the price you're like we're just begging you to buy tickets
it's the easiest way to support a bitcoiner building something is you know book your tickets
early get it done and and then book your hotel early you'll save so much more money doing it
that way as well yeah and it comes back to the whole spend thing it's like if you know if you
want to wait for the bitcoin price to go up and you know you've got some fiat anyway then it doesn't
really matter um particularly if it's only a ticket for a conference anyway um if you've got
fiat in your bank account you're short bitcoin in the first place so you know just just get on with
it uh spend the sats um help help conference organizers uh plan because that's the big the
big problem um with we're talking about potentially having uh tickets in sats only so we had fiat and
sats last year i'm personally very keen to just have bitcoin only because if you're not willing
to spend bitcoin on a ticket to go to a bitcoin conference then uh don't come you know that's
that's where i am personally uh i'm not sure i'm going to get that past the other guys but we'll see
I think there's a misconception out there as well that the conferences are just money making spinners for new organizers.
It's like, oh, no, we lost. We lost money and we'll lose money again.
Yeah, it's not why we're doing it.
And even the big ones. All right.
Like, look, we're not talking about Bitcoin magazine and those disastrous Bitcoin conferences that they put on.
I'm sure they're money spinners, but that's all for the wrong reasons.
but if you're going to look at BTC Prague, for example,
they've got a big team together.
Like, you know, it's...
Yeah, nobody's getting rich out of conferences,
that's for sure.
And generally, people that are doing it
have never been conference organizers in the past.
And, you know, they're just doing this
for the love of Bitcoin.
Yeah.
And trying to carve a niche out
for us to all get together, basically.
And I think I saw something the other day.
Matteo posted maybe a review,
somebody's experience from Club Orange.
And, you know, friend around and find out is my new meme.
Because when you actually meet other Bitcoiners in real life,
look what happens.
Like your perfect example, Front Row, Riga, like, fuck.
We've got to fix like this idea of where do we spend our sats
and we need a map and who's where is the map and what can we leverage within what like 24 hours you
had two other people like friend around and find out guys like this is getting in real life
situations with each other is just yeah it's like the meme with a guy dancing on the hill isn't it
you know yeah i love that one what's that song that's such a catchy tune
incredible yeah
I'm going to go and listen to that
alright mate I'll send you
I'll send you that meme now
alright well thanks a lot
people can find you on NOSTA
obviously I'll put your own pub
in there and your twitter account
and the BTC maps for everybody to go follow
as well
awesome thanks a lot man
see you mate
well thanks again Nathan
thank you everybody for listening
if you want to know more
reach out to Nathan on Nostra
he's definitely most
most of his days spent
there rather than Twitter
I mean he's on both but
you'll definitely get more of a response
from him on Nostra
if you want to go over to
Manchester and
enjoy the conference
that they're going to be putting together again
towards the end of November
make sure you reach out to either
myself or Nathan go to Nathan directly and get your tickets get show your interest and and help
support these efforts and yeah pay in bitcoin like this is the thing the year of spedden or
like the rest of your life of spedden it's um it's very important and and I I hope that
conversations like this and b2c maps and other tools that are getting built out around the world
are going to be able to unlock you to be able to start using your Bitcoin.
Because the minute you can start using it,
the easier it will be for you to start living in that parallel economy
and planning for your future properly because you're on sound money.
Yes, the price is volatile and whatever else.
But just one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin.
Keep stacking your Bitcoin.
If you want to escape from your fiat life like Nathan and so many of us have,
start looking at these tools, what you can use.
Make sure you've self-custodied your Bitcoin.
Make sure you're meeting other Bitcoiners.
Get out to your local meetup.
You can find it on Club Orange.
If you don't have a local meetup, start it and list it on Club Orange.
I guarantee you'll find something or someone within 50 miles of you once you've downloaded the app.
Go and connect.
and go and start having conversations and go and figure out what it is that you can do to make a
difference to carry this thing forward and get into the conferences is a great way to do that so
manchester is one towards the end of the year dublin is coming up that's going to be back end
of may it's like the 20 between the 22nd 25th if i'm not mistaken you can use the code bitten
link in the show notes you've got prague june 11th to 13th and you can again use the code bitten
get your discounted tickets like uh use it don't use it and abuse that 10 discount
uh and helsinki btc hell that's going to be an interesting one because that is going to be
September time so that's just after the BIP 110 activation date and that's going to be an
interesting point it's either going to be a real mess or everything would have activated in that
direction who knows I don't know what side of the fence you sit on that or if you're sitting on the
fence up to you do your own research there's plenty of essays out there now you can go back
and listen to my episode with reno cooney to listen uh and get up to speed on his 15 part essay
series but otherwise that's all to be said for this thank you so much for nathan coming on i
hope to catch you guys on the next show