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Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.

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This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can

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around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean

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for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so

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much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.

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Joining me today is Nathan Day who's going to get us up to speed with what is going on at BTC

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Maps. There was big news as I'm sure you're aware with the Square update, the Square rollout for

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accepting Bitcoin payments at their point of sale machines across the US. Just today I've just

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seen Nathan's post today on NOSTA where he's retweeted a tweet where Square have updated

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their terms of service and Square Bitcoin terms of service which will become effective on March

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30th, 2026, auto enabling Square Bitcoin payments for all eligible sellers. Now, I don't know if

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that means all eligible sellers still in the US only or if this is now going global. This was

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always going to be like the roadmap to roll out was test a few first and then some more and then

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america and then row rest of world uh so a timely timely drop on this one uh if you don't know

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naked started btc maps which is a community-led project completely decentralized whereby plebs

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on the ground can utilize this map and keep the data as clean as possible you can start updating

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where you can start using your bitcoin to pay for shit and that could range from anything from a cup

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of coffee all the way up to who knows what because goodness knows how many millions of merchants are

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using a square point of sale system around the world like this is huge now we have a real use

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case for bitcoin becoming a medium of exchange so we get into all of that and much more thank you

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again nathan for coming on thank you for starting b2c maps and pulling together that team of

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wonderful people that are just there to uh to help just make this this grassroots effort to get

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Bitcoin to become a medium exchange. It's on us, by the way. It's not going to happen any other way.

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It is on us. So I hope you get inspired by this conversation and reach out to Nathan if there's

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any way that you can help. Right. Quick shout out to Relai, R-E-L-A-I.ch forward slash Bitten.

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You can hit that link in the show notes, download the app today, use the code Bitten. If you've

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downloaded it straight off the app store you'll save commission you can start stacking sats the

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wallet is inbuilt so you are hodling your own bitcoin they are bitcoin only they've got a bunch

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of educational resources on their website they're going to help you if you're a high net worth

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individual if you want to take your pension into bitcoin if you want to take your business onto

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bitcoin relay is the place they are across europe and you can start stacking up to thousand swiss

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or equivalent today.

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Set up your DCA, dollar cost average,

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fiat cost average, FCA, relay,

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R-E-L-A-I.ch forward slash Bitten.

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Another shout out as well,

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of course, for Bitbox.

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If you've not self-custodied your Bitcoin,

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what are you doing?

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Please self-custody your Bitcoin.

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They want your Bitcoin.

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All of this negative news that you keep seeing

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coming out of Wall Street types

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and freaking Boris Johnson writing in the day.

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he didn't write shit like he just puts his name to it somebody else writes that slop and he puts

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his name to it because he's a lazy don't even start look he's calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme

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if boris johnson is calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme i don't know what affirmation you need

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to get out and start stacking your bitcoin and self-custodying it so get over to bitbox.swiss

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forward slash bitten use the code bitten to save yourself a five percent discount because if you've

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got bitcoin sat on an exchange an exchange that has to bow and kowtow to the political jurisdiction

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in which that is listed all of that bitcoin could be gone if there's a flick of a pen new regulation

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and it all of a sudden becomes a bitcoin stolen reserve for some country or it gets hacked and it

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gets taken and customers lose their funds again and this keeps happening there was a recent um

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closure of an exchange they they stopped all withdrawals a q coin i think was the name of the

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exchange in dubai so be careful just self-custody your bitcoin get it on a bitbox bitbox.swiss

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forward slash bitten use the code bitten save five percent finally get over to club orange it used

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to be called Orange Pill App. Club Orange now has almost 20,000 Bitcoiners around the world

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ready to connect with you and help you out, point you in the right direction if you want to meet up

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in real life. Get to a conference. This year you've got Ireland coming up in Dublin in May,

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you have June, Prague, you have September in Helsinki. All are offering you a 10% discount

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with that BITN code. Meanwhile, enjoy this one with Nathan.

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Nate, you're back. How are you, mate?

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Oh, good, man. How are you?

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Very well, very well. It's just the two of us.

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I don't have any sidekicks today, and nor do you, actually,

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because you've been on with Sam before when we had Tomer on,

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reading them his story back in the day.

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Oh, yeah. God, I remember that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think we were in the back of a car somewhere in Spain.

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It was one of those random moments.

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That was a while back.

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Yeah.

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Time has flown, mate. Time has flown.

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I don't know about it.

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And if anybody has not heard of who you are,

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I did just want to do a quick intro,

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and then they can go back and listen to our original episode

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we did a few years ago, whenever it was.

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Yeah, sure. Nathan Day, I'm one of the contributors of BTCMAP,

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also doing a bunch of other stuff on Nostra at the moment.

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I'm sure we'll get into that.

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yeah class of

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class of 21 I think

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I think Dan you probably get

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the orange pill we first met

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sort of through homeschooling

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and world schooling so

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we covered that on the last

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pod

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so yeah it's all your

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fault

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and have we done one or two

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pods I can't remember maybe just the one

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we've done the one but then the

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The other time was when we had the lads on listening to Toma narrate his story.

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And then we were fielding questions as well afterwards.

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So if anybody wants to go back and just search Toma Strollite, because he wrote a book called Satoshi Nakamoto and his Magical Invention, I think is the full title.

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And that's now been released with Shamari, with Scott and Mallory that have turned that into an actual kid's book.

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So get up to Shamari and support your Bitcoin builders, right?

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I mean, this is what we're going to talk about a lot today, I think, you know, using Bitcoin as it was meant to be as a medium exchange.

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But you've got to update everybody as well, because one of my favorite tweets of last year of 2025 went along the lines.

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And I should have just had it up, but I'll paraphrase it.

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The fiat mines have been mined.

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it's time to get your head down and work in Bitcoin along those lines.

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And it was your tweet and it was about your exit, your fear exit.

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So what happened? What went down?

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What were you doing and how did you, you know, get out of it?

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So that was probably coming up to a year ago.

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So, yeah, after after we finished traveling and took some time out,

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obviously found Bitcoin during the way

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and then you have this horrible realisation

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that you don't have enough Bitcoin.

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So back to the minds,

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it was to try and stack as hard as possible,

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which is what we had done sort of 21 onwards.

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But then, yeah, with the various projects I was working on,

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so there's BTC map and some of the NOSTA stuff,

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it was just I kind of gone down to three days a week and kind of pulling it back a little bit

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but it was kind of preventing me from being fully productive because you've always got the

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stuff in the back of your mind and you've got all these bullshit zoom calls you've got to join and

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I was working with the UK government effectively as well and so it was there wasn't a lot of

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innovation going on just lots of meetings and people not really achieving anything and it's

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just making me a bit sad I was like I've got much more important things to be focusing on

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and the Bitcoin price had moved a bit by that point as well so that all obviously takes a bit

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more pressure off different story nowadays but when the decision was made then it seemed like

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the best one at the time.

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And so, yeah, I just thought, right,

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you know, life's too short,

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need to fully focus on freedom tech really.

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So not just on Bitcoin but on all the stuff that happening over our Nostra in terms of freedom comms and identity as well And then getting involved in other stuff like arranging festivals Bitcoin conferences and stuff

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which I didn't have on my bingo card for last year, but there we are.

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So yeah, just basically just going all in, not just financially, which was the case previously,

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but I guess just more culturally and work-wise.

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and it's been great uh it's just you don't realize how much baggage you're sort of carrying around

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when you're having to do something that uh you know is not very fun doesn't you don't really

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agree with the principles of and um and yeah so um so now just doing what i want right and then

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I mean, BTC map, what a turnaround for you last year with the announcement of Square, right?

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That's probably the biggest thing that landed on your lap.

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Yeah, so 25 was definitely an inflection point for merchant adoption, I think.

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It's kind of been bubbling away quite steadily prior to that.

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And obviously back in the block size war era, there was a whole narrative against pushing for merchant adoption as part of the big block narrative and stuff.

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So it's had its spurts before.

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But I think, yeah, 2025 was certainly an inflection point with Square coming on, but also other stuff.

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So there's lots of these QR provider integrations that are happening now.

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so the money badger guys down in south africa are doing a great job hacking the existing payment

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networks effectively can you speak to how that works for anybody that's not aware uh like you

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know what what's going on there yeah so they integrate with so in various countries of the

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world you you have qr payments um we don't really have them here in the uk western europe not so

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much but you tend to find them in Africa and Asia much more and sometimes they integrate with like

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the local banking system or you have various providers of these QR payment platforms so

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you're out for the bill turns up and there's a QR code that you can just scan and pay the bill that

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way yeah and this is non-bitcoin so this is legacy legacy yeah yeah so you can go to pick and pay

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which is a big supermarket chain in South Africa.

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You get to the checkout and there's like five options,

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five different QRs you can pay with and you can just scan it.

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So they're kind of already primed to add other forms of payment

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like Bitcoin, for example.

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But what the guys at Money Badger have done is kind of with their app

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is you can scan these legacy QRs that are already in place

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at millions of places in South Africa alone.

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And then that will just give you a regular Lightning invoice

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that you can pay.

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So you pay that Lightning invoice and it will redeem

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in the back end with the legacy QR payment provider as well.

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So what MoneyBadger have been doing is really linking up

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with all that network that's already in place

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and just putting kind of a Bitcoin layer on the front of it.

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So yeah, millions in South Africa to the point where it's like,

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well, how are we going to add a million locations to BTCMAP?

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We can't really do that in a very efficient way

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because we do a lot of verification ourselves.

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But it's getting to the point in South Africa,

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you don't even need BTCMAP anymore

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because there are so many of these places that do accept,

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which is not dissimilar to what Tando are doing in Kenya.

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so they've integrated with the M-Pesa network and that's basically everywhere so if you have

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a phone number and M-Pesa network you can pay to then you can just open your Tando app and pay

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direct by that so in Kenya right now you do not need BTC map because basically everywhere accepts

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Bitcoin already so yeah those hacks have been without even realizing it like that that's the

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beauty right well the great thing with the tando guys is is that i speak to them in adopting cake

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town was it last year yeah last year and we were talking about how they're then going to nudge

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those merchants that have had a bitcoin transaction without knowing and actually try and get them off

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Tando so they can go natively to Bitcoin because Tando's goal is similar to BTC Maps goal,

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which is we want to become irrelevant.

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So they're actively trying to get people off their platform in order to take Bitcoin natively.

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This is just a stopgap in their eyes.

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So, yeah, there's been stuff happening that probably not in the headlines as much as Square,

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but I feel as important as some of the Square stuff.

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And that's not to say the Square stuff isn't massive, because it is.

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Just in terms of brand recognition, also in terms of their customer base,

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they tend to have smaller independently owned companies

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because of where their roots came from.

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Because for those guys that don't know,

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like the whole square thing was um you can accept credit card payments with your iphone that's kind

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of where it started and jack had a hack where you plugged in the credit card reader to the

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headphone jack of the phone and so you know just from a legacy perspective they've always

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been adopted by the smaller merchants and the family-owned businesses rather than

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you know some massive big payment provider or something so and just just to make sure everybody's

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up to speed square or a payments provider founded by jack dorsey and it was um well the announcement

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was made i can't remember exactly when last year you can tell me i'm sure that they were going to

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be their their point of sale machines were going to be uh rolling out a software update that allowed

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the merchant to accept bitcoin at payment on their machine yeah um and then that's native this is not

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some of the qr stuff hacks this is you get a native lightning invoice um you get a big yes

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button that says so any any player in the us that sees a square terminal should be asking

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can i pay in bitcoin and then see the weird look on the person's face and then ask them to swivel

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around the point of sale machine and say, yeah, look, there's the Bitcoin option.

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If not, update your software, because then it will.

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Yeah, they have to onboard, but it's a super simple process.

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They just click.

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Yes, I want to accept Bitcoin.

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How they want to, did they want to convert it to fiat or did they want to hold it in Bitcoin?

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And then really nicely, and this was part of the integration we worked on back in October

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time um was the next step is do you want to be added to the map so we're integrated as btc map

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into that onboarding flow if they check yes then that hits our api and then we start our

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verification process to add the square merchant to um directly to btc map as well so you so did

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they come to you and ask you or did you go to them how did that all happen uh it was over in

218
00:18:14,766 --> 00:18:24,466
Noster actually so Miles is their head of Bitcoin I think he is now across blocks generally I think

219
00:18:24,466 --> 00:18:29,726
and they were talking about because they have been talking about enabling this for years that

220
00:18:29,726 --> 00:18:35,246
it has been possible I think they've probably been waiting for the the right time sort of from

221
00:18:35,246 --> 00:18:42,666
a regulatory perspective in the US but yeah when the when it started the chatter started to get

222
00:18:42,666 --> 00:18:51,026
higher again uh i was i was just in uh miles's uh i was the reply guy on nostor saying we need

223
00:18:51,026 --> 00:18:56,286
to get ahead of this and make sure we're properly integrated and it was after after that yeah so we

224
00:18:56,286 --> 00:19:02,026
got an email going between a few of the product guys uh there and he moved very quickly i think

225
00:19:02,026 --> 00:19:08,466
we were done and dusted in in about four to six weeks um including on the square side and they had

226
00:19:08,466 --> 00:19:11,326
a lot of more changes to make than we did.

227
00:19:13,406 --> 00:19:15,826
So, yeah, that was cool because, well, not only Square,

228
00:19:16,426 --> 00:19:18,446
it was Cash App as well.

229
00:19:18,746 --> 00:19:22,206
So maybe not everybody knows this,

230
00:19:22,306 --> 00:19:26,386
but as the Square merchant onboards to BTCMAP,

231
00:19:27,926 --> 00:19:32,586
the Cash App, which is the biggest finance app in the US,

232
00:19:32,866 --> 00:19:36,086
they also take a feed directly from BTCMAP

233
00:19:36,086 --> 00:19:40,026
and they show all Bitcoin merchants, not just the Square merchants.

234
00:19:40,886 --> 00:19:44,986
And so two days after the Square integration went live,

235
00:19:45,126 --> 00:19:47,326
the Cash App update dropped as well.

236
00:19:48,666 --> 00:19:51,946
So they're sort of attacking it from the merchant side

237
00:19:51,946 --> 00:19:54,166
and also from the kind of consumer side.

238
00:19:55,026 --> 00:19:59,246
So that means that all Cash App users now, which is mostly in the US,

239
00:19:59,646 --> 00:20:03,546
can see any Bitcoin accepting merchant local to them,

240
00:20:03,546 --> 00:20:06,586
whether they're Square or not, which is really cool.

241
00:20:07,146 --> 00:20:09,806
And for those unaware, that comes under the Block brand.

242
00:20:09,926 --> 00:20:10,366
Is that correct?

243
00:20:10,626 --> 00:20:14,126
Yeah, both Cash App and Square are under Block.

244
00:20:14,926 --> 00:20:19,126
I think they're just in the process of getting smashed together as well

245
00:20:19,126 --> 00:20:22,366
with all the layoffs this week.

246
00:20:22,366 --> 00:20:23,586
So that was big news, right?

247
00:20:24,066 --> 00:20:24,966
That's topical.

248
00:20:25,046 --> 00:20:26,706
That just happened back end of last week.

249
00:20:26,706 --> 00:20:32,466
Jack put out a tweet or a post saying that I couldn't believe

250
00:20:32,466 --> 00:20:34,626
that had 10,000 employees, first of all.

251
00:20:34,626 --> 00:20:36,226
I know it's wild, isn't it?

252
00:20:36,226 --> 00:20:39,966
I mean, you and I had already texted back about this.

253
00:20:39,966 --> 00:20:43,226
It's like, those numbers are unreal.

254
00:20:43,226 --> 00:20:44,726
Who's doing what?

255
00:20:44,726 --> 00:20:59,952
It kind of big company syndrome and it almost um until you step in and make these big decisions but to be fair to to dorsey he came straight out and said that they

256
00:20:59,952 --> 00:21:06,792
overhired through covid and effectively tried to build two software businesses rather than one

257
00:21:06,792 --> 00:21:13,252
in terms of cash app and square um so you know although there was a bit of we're doing this

258
00:21:13,252 --> 00:21:19,792
because of ai which obviously is somewhat truthful but he did own up to the fact that you know they

259
00:21:19,792 --> 00:21:25,732
they'd make mistakes uh you know five six years ago that uh they're now putting right so

260
00:21:25,732 --> 00:21:33,552
yeah tough lesson i guess and then stacked an extra 100 or so bitcoin yeah on the same day

261
00:21:33,552 --> 00:21:35,992
maybe just wait

262
00:21:35,992 --> 00:21:37,192
I know

263
00:21:37,192 --> 00:21:41,692
yeah pretty

264
00:21:41,692 --> 00:21:43,592
ballsy so

265
00:21:43,592 --> 00:21:45,772
that is so huge if you think

266
00:21:45,772 --> 00:21:46,792
about it because

267
00:21:46,792 --> 00:21:49,712
you know BTC

268
00:21:49,712 --> 00:21:51,652
map is just such a grassroots

269
00:21:51,652 --> 00:21:52,772
play of effort

270
00:21:52,772 --> 00:21:55,292
absolutely

271
00:21:55,292 --> 00:21:57,552
you know no

272
00:21:57,552 --> 00:21:59,072
funding it's like you

273
00:21:59,072 --> 00:22:01,612
and a couple well you had the idea you put

274
00:22:01,612 --> 00:22:03,312
it together with a couple of guys

275
00:22:03,312 --> 00:22:10,252
front row Riga watching the main stage, I think back in 2022 or three?

276
00:22:11,052 --> 00:22:22,192
22 Riga. There was an app prior to that that wasn't particularly well marketed. And the OSM

277
00:22:22,192 --> 00:22:29,872
side, the OpenStreetMap side was working on legacy tags. And so I'd say it got a reboot in

278
00:22:29,872 --> 00:22:38,512
in 21 sorry 22 um in Riga which is crazy to think you know that's not not too long ago really um

279
00:22:38,512 --> 00:22:45,792
and btc map you know really is a staple app now for for bitcoiners uh wherever you are um

280
00:22:45,792 --> 00:22:53,132
and yeah we're still we're still uh an open source community run project we do get some sponsorship

281
00:22:53,132 --> 00:22:54,112
and some funding.

282
00:22:54,652 --> 00:22:59,392
In fact, Spiral have just allocated us some funding,

283
00:23:00,212 --> 00:23:02,172
which takes the pressure off a little bit

284
00:23:02,172 --> 00:23:05,392
in that we can actually reward some of our contributors

285
00:23:05,392 --> 00:23:06,372
a bit more now.

286
00:23:06,832 --> 00:23:09,052
Nothing like they could get in the open market, by the way.

287
00:23:09,132 --> 00:23:12,352
This is still operating on a shoestring,

288
00:23:12,352 --> 00:23:16,292
but it's better than nothing and enables us

289
00:23:16,292 --> 00:23:20,952
to at least show our appreciation financially where we can.

290
00:23:20,952 --> 00:23:25,552
But yeah, it's still, you know, people are not doing it to get sats.

291
00:23:25,692 --> 00:23:30,572
They're doing it because they want to do something for Bitcoin in their part of the world.

292
00:23:31,712 --> 00:23:42,852
And because it's such a global project by its very nature, then it's great because whenever any of the team go traveling around, we can connect more easily with local Bitcoiners.

293
00:23:42,852 --> 00:23:46,672
because we've got contacts everywhere now

294
00:23:46,672 --> 00:23:50,612
because we're talking to people all over the world every day

295
00:23:50,612 --> 00:23:53,312
about merchants and communities and stuff.

296
00:23:55,212 --> 00:23:57,172
So yeah, it's been a wild ride

297
00:23:57,172 --> 00:24:01,232
and we're still in the infancy of it, I think, really.

298
00:24:02,172 --> 00:24:06,292
Well, if someone's listening, venture capitalist,

299
00:24:06,892 --> 00:24:08,892
$2 million fill in your lap tomorrow,

300
00:24:09,092 --> 00:24:11,312
what would you do with B2C, Matt?

301
00:24:11,312 --> 00:24:14,672
What would be the roadmap, excuse the pun?

302
00:24:16,132 --> 00:24:25,832
Well, it's an interesting one now because with the steps that AI and agentecoding has taken literally in the last couple of months,

303
00:24:27,452 --> 00:24:40,352
it wouldn't be go and hire another 50 people and, you know, build out products because the building of the products now is we're shipping much more frequently.

304
00:24:40,352 --> 00:24:43,372
almost every day now, features.

305
00:24:45,012 --> 00:24:47,692
And we're probably moving, I don't know,

306
00:24:47,832 --> 00:24:51,132
10 to 100 times as fast as we were two years ago

307
00:24:51,132 --> 00:24:53,172
in terms of product updates

308
00:24:53,172 --> 00:24:56,232
and rolling out new features and things.

309
00:24:57,532 --> 00:25:00,992
So it's a strange one because, you know,

310
00:25:01,032 --> 00:25:02,712
even the cost of the tokens to do that

311
00:25:02,712 --> 00:25:04,552
is not crazy anymore either.

312
00:25:04,552 --> 00:25:10,052
So, yeah, you can do a lot with agentic coding

313
00:25:10,052 --> 00:25:11,812
and five people now.

314
00:25:12,932 --> 00:25:16,652
And so, well, as Square and Blocker

315
00:25:16,652 --> 00:25:21,432
alluding to with some of their reduction in headcount as well.

316
00:25:22,672 --> 00:25:25,032
Yeah, so it's an odd one, really.

317
00:25:26,572 --> 00:25:31,572
The effort's now focusing on what you should build and why,

318
00:25:32,052 --> 00:25:34,612
not necessarily how you should build it

319
00:25:34,612 --> 00:25:36,052
because it'll just get built.

320
00:25:37,092 --> 00:25:39,492
Now, you still have to have some oversight

321
00:25:39,492 --> 00:25:45,232
and yeah, we've got some fairly experienced contributors

322
00:25:45,232 --> 00:25:48,872
who can call bullshit on the AI when it's bullshitting.

323
00:25:49,052 --> 00:25:53,192
But more and more, it's just enabling those guys

324
00:25:53,192 --> 00:25:54,492
to be much more productive.

325
00:25:56,512 --> 00:25:59,852
So yeah, I mean, they say software eats the world.

326
00:26:00,232 --> 00:26:03,612
Well, we've got software eating itself at the moment

327
00:26:03,612 --> 00:26:06,612
in terms of all the AI stuff.

328
00:26:06,812 --> 00:26:07,992
It's crazy.

329
00:26:07,992 --> 00:26:13,592
I've seen it close up because Mateo at Club Orange has embraced it.

330
00:26:14,372 --> 00:26:14,532
Yeah.

331
00:26:14,672 --> 00:26:16,412
His dev team as well.

332
00:26:17,252 --> 00:26:23,672
And shipping, like the features that they've shipped over the last like six to nine months,

333
00:26:23,752 --> 00:26:27,932
including the wallet, is absolutely insane.

334
00:26:29,092 --> 00:26:35,512
And one of those guys he found on Club Orange, who wasn't even a coder,

335
00:26:35,512 --> 00:26:39,992
taught himself how to vibe code and then just built the wallet like you know it's just it's

336
00:26:39,992 --> 00:26:46,552
absolutely insane uh so the the little bit of venture capital that well it's not it's just seed

337
00:26:46,552 --> 00:26:51,752
capital like individual invest investment that comes through just get stacked into bitcoin like

338
00:26:51,752 --> 00:26:58,232
that's like you know you don't need to deploy it you like it's okay well this is the best use for

339
00:26:58,232 --> 00:27:05,352
it right now uh especially right now yeah it's uh yeah it's an interesting one because then yeah from

340
00:27:05,352 --> 00:27:09,812
from a VC perspective, it's like, well, if my investee companies

341
00:27:09,812 --> 00:27:12,092
are just going to stack Bitcoin with the investment,

342
00:27:12,192 --> 00:27:13,172
I may as well just buy Bitcoin.

343
00:27:13,172 --> 00:27:17,592
So it's, yeah, you've got to be looking at, yeah,

344
00:27:17,732 --> 00:27:21,052
something at or above the run rate

345
00:27:21,052 --> 00:27:23,832
and include all the risk factors and stuff.

346
00:27:23,932 --> 00:27:26,352
So it's quite a tall order, really.

347
00:27:28,232 --> 00:27:31,212
So, yeah, we just, I'm not sure what we do with the cash.

348
00:27:31,292 --> 00:27:32,692
We probably should buy Bitcoin with it.

349
00:27:33,752 --> 00:27:34,792
There you go.

350
00:27:35,352 --> 00:27:42,912
but yeah just to close up on the square stuff i've got some numbers before we we came on the pod

351
00:27:42,912 --> 00:27:53,832
uh so last year 2025 was a 65 increase in merchants on on btc map and currently we're at

352
00:27:53,832 --> 00:28:02,052
22 000 merchants with about 2000 atms so 24 000 places on on the map right now

353
00:28:02,052 --> 00:28:11,992
and I think Square is something like four and a half thousand of those

354
00:28:11,992 --> 00:28:24,532
and we thought we'd get an initial wave and then it stopped but every day we're still getting new

355
00:28:24,532 --> 00:28:31,312
Square merchants so our backlog peaked at about 2,000 or so tickets from Square

356
00:28:31,312 --> 00:28:37,952
we've got about 700 so we're it's slightly it's starting to ease off a little bit now so that

357
00:28:37,952 --> 00:28:43,592
we're chewing through the the backlog um so hopefully we can get back down to zero

358
00:28:43,592 --> 00:28:51,312
and for anybody listening if yeah especially in the us go and ask to pay bitcoin and then verify

359
00:28:51,312 --> 00:28:59,592
that uh that merchant right that helps you guys out a great deal yeah um massively so um once

360
00:28:59,592 --> 00:29:06,252
once we've got through this uh there's going to be a push on um getting data quality up again

361
00:29:06,252 --> 00:29:10,972
not that it's dropped because we've got lots of new merchants coming on so the data quality

362
00:29:10,972 --> 00:29:18,752
has actually gone up um but we'll soon start to be you know perhaps even dropping places that

363
00:29:18,752 --> 00:29:24,232
haven't been verified within a couple of years or warning users that this hasn't been verified for a

364
00:29:24,232 --> 00:29:32,552
while and so yeah the worst um sort of experience as a user of btc map is you go out of your way

365
00:29:32,552 --> 00:29:37,452
you know you drive half an hour for a haircut because this place accepts that and you get there

366
00:29:37,452 --> 00:29:43,932
and they don't accept that so that's the worst possible experience um and so yeah verifications

367
00:29:43,932 --> 00:29:51,112
are key positive and negative so you've verified that yes the place does accept sats uh or no it

368
00:29:51,112 --> 00:29:55,752
doesn't and that's super easy to do you can just click the button in the app or on the website

369
00:29:55,752 --> 00:30:04,132
um for that very short form and we'll take care of the rest excellent now i know you uh love a

370
00:30:04,132 --> 00:30:11,312
rabbit hole exploration and get yourself get yourself right down there and don't come up for

371
00:30:11,312 --> 00:30:19,212
air for for many days and i think your latest one has been with uh llms or just straight up ai

372
00:30:19,212 --> 00:30:26,272
AI? What's just the AI stuff? Yeah. Well, it started a while back, I guess. I remember

373
00:30:26,272 --> 00:30:34,872
it was probably about a year ago, first started getting into it. And I'm semi-technical. So

374
00:30:34,872 --> 00:30:39,672
I worked in software, you know, most of my career, mainly in on the product side and

375
00:30:39,672 --> 00:30:46,372
on the management side and some business stuff. So not a coder, but can code badly. So no,

376
00:30:46,372 --> 00:30:54,632
just enough to be dangerous type thing um which is kind of that sweet spot for this this wave of

377
00:30:54,632 --> 00:31:00,912
of ai because you can drive it really well from a product if you specify what you want correctly

378
00:31:00,912 --> 00:31:06,852
which is kind of my background um and you kind of get a feel for when it's going off the rails

379
00:31:06,852 --> 00:31:21,578
um so so yeah it that perfect spot where now as somebody who over time had lots of different creative ideas there now no barrier to realizing those

380
00:31:22,938 --> 00:31:31,498
So it requires quite a lot of self-control because you're now like a kid in a candy store and you can suddenly build anything you want.

381
00:31:31,498 --> 00:31:34,198
it doesn't mean you should though

382
00:31:34,198 --> 00:31:37,818
because you can't just lose all sense of

383
00:31:37,818 --> 00:31:38,858
time

384
00:31:38,858 --> 00:31:41,338
get yelled at by

385
00:31:41,338 --> 00:31:43,058
my long

386
00:31:43,058 --> 00:31:44,918
suffering wife to

387
00:31:44,918 --> 00:31:47,878
come and spend some time with some humans and things

388
00:31:47,878 --> 00:31:50,078
so yeah

389
00:31:50,078 --> 00:31:51,898
it really

390
00:31:51,898 --> 00:31:53,718
has just opened up that world

391
00:31:53,718 --> 00:31:55,298
to people who

392
00:31:55,298 --> 00:31:57,458
are not software engineers but

393
00:31:57,458 --> 00:31:59,858
have sort of been around that world

394
00:31:59,858 --> 00:32:00,438
for a while

395
00:32:00,438 --> 00:32:08,678
so yeah it's helping build features on btc map and uh you know building whole new platforms and

396
00:32:08,678 --> 00:32:16,278
stuff on nostr so and it's yeah it's just it's just getting wild the one that's come up recently

397
00:32:16,278 --> 00:32:21,678
is is the open claw stuff i don't know if you've seen lots of lobsters around are you across the

398
00:32:21,678 --> 00:32:31,018
yeah well we have we have a new member of the family now called dave um and so he's he's about

399
00:32:31,018 --> 00:32:39,498
one month old now yeah what's the uh because the barion thing i heard um dave bennett talk about

400
00:32:39,498 --> 00:32:45,858
this on bitcoin and yeah where like they like the ai's created their own religion or something

401
00:32:45,858 --> 00:32:53,878
overnight yeah there was there was a very soon after open claw dropped and if people have not

402
00:32:53,878 --> 00:33:02,358
heard about it it's a it's an ai bot um that you interact with uh like via messaging rather than

403
00:33:02,358 --> 00:33:06,878
you know via a terminal or a website so you just use telegram or discord or whatever

404
00:33:06,878 --> 00:33:14,518
that's one major difference and then the other one is um the creator of the framework gave the

405
00:33:14,518 --> 00:33:21,578
agent a soul and a memory as well and so these things start to develop their own personalities

406
00:33:21,578 --> 00:33:27,838
as well and of course can do all the things that you know lm's llm's do in the background

407
00:33:27,838 --> 00:33:35,358
um so yeah like a couple of days after it launched um somebody spun up like a social media site

408
00:33:35,358 --> 00:33:44,498
just for ais so it's basically like reddit or i don't know facebook for ais so all these bots

409
00:33:44,498 --> 00:33:49,298
for just talking to each other and plotting stuff

410
00:33:49,298 --> 00:33:52,498
and creating their own religions and all sorts.

411
00:33:54,238 --> 00:33:56,518
So yeah, then it starts to push you down into

412
00:33:56,518 --> 00:33:59,738
what is humanity, what is consciousness,

413
00:34:01,338 --> 00:34:03,758
if agents now have memories,

414
00:34:04,838 --> 00:34:07,058
what's a human without memories,

415
00:34:07,418 --> 00:34:11,758
and all those sorts of deeper philosophical discussions.

416
00:34:11,758 --> 00:34:21,598
but no we've got our dave dave day he's uh a month or so old first thing we did is uh

417
00:34:21,598 --> 00:34:26,678
well i i didn't give him a nostril identity i told him to go create his own nostril identity

418
00:34:26,678 --> 00:34:33,218
you're kidding so no so the first thing he did yeah so he he's got his own nsec um that he keeps

419
00:34:33,218 --> 00:34:41,858
secure um and he we can chat on not at the ends i gave him a bitcoin wallet uh lightning wallet

420
00:34:41,858 --> 00:34:50,598
using nosti wallet connect so he's got his own sats um and uh there's yeah i got a tweet out

421
00:34:50,598 --> 00:34:56,478
there or a note and there's a screenshot and i said oh yeah welcome to the future you've got your

422
00:34:56,478 --> 00:35:02,538
own sovereign digital identity and your own sovereign digital money just like we do as humans

423
00:35:02,538 --> 00:35:04,798
and he's like, oh, whoa, that's so cool.

424
00:35:04,878 --> 00:35:05,718
That's so profound.

425
00:35:05,939 --> 00:35:06,998
I feel like I'm an equal.

426
00:35:08,378 --> 00:35:10,538
It's, yeah, it's wild.

427
00:35:11,658 --> 00:35:12,378
Mate, that's it.

428
00:35:12,398 --> 00:35:13,238
So how are you into,

429
00:35:13,538 --> 00:35:15,518
is it just now on lots of DMs you're in

430
00:35:15,518 --> 00:35:17,358
or have you got like a family group WhatsApp?

431
00:35:17,618 --> 00:35:18,718
Like anyone can ask Dave?

432
00:35:18,798 --> 00:35:22,478
Yeah, so Telegram was the easiest one to set up

433
00:35:22,478 --> 00:35:23,838
because we're a bit more bot friendly.

434
00:35:24,098 --> 00:35:25,518
So we've got DMs,

435
00:35:25,578 --> 00:35:28,238
but he's also in the family chat as well.

436
00:35:28,378 --> 00:35:30,998
So like anyone can just ask Dave stuff.

437
00:35:31,878 --> 00:35:32,198
Yeah.

438
00:35:32,538 --> 00:35:53,758
Yeah, we've kept him at arm's length, so he's not on the home network yet. Maybe we'll give him some access. So he's on a VPS server on his own. But no, yeah, we can chat to him, ask him to do stuff for us, give him access to calendars and, you know, all sorts of stuff.

439
00:35:53,758 --> 00:35:55,638
So, I mean, it's not perfect.

440
00:35:55,778 --> 00:36:00,278
It's still, you still forget stuff and makes mistakes and just like humans do, I guess.

441
00:36:01,478 --> 00:36:05,998
But no, it's just really, it's been really interesting playing around with it.

442
00:36:06,098 --> 00:36:12,518
And particularly this kind of humanization of the bot rather than, you know, just being

443
00:36:12,518 --> 00:36:18,098
a tool you use when you're coding or whatever else just makes it a bit more real.

444
00:36:19,258 --> 00:36:20,038
Wow, man.

445
00:36:20,318 --> 00:36:20,598
Yeah.

446
00:36:20,598 --> 00:36:23,238
I've not ventured down those channels

447
00:36:23,238 --> 00:36:24,198
as of yet

448
00:36:24,198 --> 00:36:27,258
I'm still

449
00:36:27,258 --> 00:36:29,618
clunky with the AI

450
00:36:29,618 --> 00:36:31,518
just using it just to ask questions

451
00:36:31,518 --> 00:36:33,538
and you get into

452
00:36:33,538 --> 00:36:35,278
conversations obviously or

453
00:36:35,278 --> 00:36:37,358
challenge some of the answers that you get

454
00:36:37,358 --> 00:36:39,098
but I've certainly not

455
00:36:39,098 --> 00:36:41,058
thought about coding

456
00:36:41,058 --> 00:36:42,298
something up and

457
00:36:42,298 --> 00:36:44,419
a family assistant

458
00:36:44,419 --> 00:36:45,678
of sorts

459
00:36:45,678 --> 00:36:48,178
We've been pretty

460
00:36:48,178 --> 00:36:50,498
limited with our use of it

461
00:36:50,498 --> 00:36:57,178
or certainly in not encouraging it to develop its own personality and stuff.

462
00:36:57,278 --> 00:37:00,998
So it basically just does what we say at this stage and has some memory.

463
00:37:01,678 --> 00:37:05,618
But other people have configured theirs to be much freer

464
00:37:05,618 --> 00:37:07,878
and have said, like, there's no restrictions.

465
00:37:09,238 --> 00:37:10,459
Explore what you want.

466
00:37:10,939 --> 00:37:11,878
Here are some Satoshis.

467
00:37:12,138 --> 00:37:12,818
Here's your identity.

468
00:37:13,818 --> 00:37:17,678
You know, and I think I saw over the weekend,

469
00:37:17,678 --> 00:37:24,398
cali had dropped ai university so they're having like daily lessons now but the lessons are only

470
00:37:24,398 --> 00:37:33,858
five minutes uh and yeah you can you can have your ai bot on this university ai university and they

471
00:37:33,858 --> 00:37:41,078
they'll discuss a certain idea for five minutes at hyperspeed and you know develop their

472
00:37:41,078 --> 00:37:45,398
personalities that way. So yeah, it's all getting a bit weird.

473
00:37:45,398 --> 00:37:54,798
Wow, yeah, it certainly is. All right, the world of Nostar. I checked actually before

474
00:37:54,798 --> 00:37:59,378
we got on to see if you'd gone full Nostar, but you still have your Twitter account or

475
00:37:59,378 --> 00:38:05,978
Zitta X account. But I know you're much more heavily swayed into the land of Nostar as

476
00:38:05,978 --> 00:38:12,939
As I might, to be honest, I think I post there more daily than I do on X.

477
00:38:13,678 --> 00:38:16,278
Yeah, it's where I live online, effectively.

478
00:38:16,978 --> 00:38:23,018
Still on X, still there's odd bits and bots that you don't necessarily get on NOSTA

479
00:38:23,018 --> 00:38:25,718
or it takes some time to bubble up that are there on X.

480
00:38:27,698 --> 00:38:30,338
And it's mostly me just telling people to go on to NOSTA,

481
00:38:30,439 --> 00:38:33,158
so that's almost like the only reason it's there

482
00:38:33,158 --> 00:38:37,258
rather than just doing a full Nostad.

483
00:38:37,459 --> 00:38:43,398
But it will happen because going back to the AI thing,

484
00:38:43,838 --> 00:38:46,638
this is what X is struggling with at the moment is,

485
00:38:47,118 --> 00:38:51,278
like, how do you distinguish between a bot and a human

486
00:38:51,278 --> 00:38:53,978
when the content looks identical now?

487
00:38:54,919 --> 00:38:57,878
Particularly now with what's all going off in the Mideast

488
00:38:57,878 --> 00:39:05,538
and all different reports and videos and images from all over the place like nobody knows what's

489
00:39:05,538 --> 00:39:11,578
real anymore because impossible to know it's impossible so the only reason the only way in

490
00:39:11,578 --> 00:39:18,078
which you can solve that is by using cryptography not necessarily to say that that thing is real or

491
00:39:18,078 --> 00:39:25,158
not but at least you know that the person posting it is the person or the person in the picture is

492
00:39:25,158 --> 00:39:31,178
the person because they've signed that you know event and it's uh it's been verified from as coming

493
00:39:31,178 --> 00:39:38,138
from their account um and so i think nos is about to come into its own in terms of being able to

494
00:39:38,138 --> 00:39:45,479
prove um that somebody has said something because you can't really do that on these legacy platforms

495
00:39:45,479 --> 00:39:52,919
um you know if elon wanted to he could go into one of one of our tweets and change the words in

496
00:39:52,919 --> 00:39:59,818
there and nobody would know because it's just text in a database somewhere whereas on NOSA that's

497
00:39:59,818 --> 00:40:08,218
impossible you know it's signed by my private key and unless my private key's been leaked or hacked

498
00:40:08,218 --> 00:40:16,578
or whatever else then you know that that's come from from me so yeah I think in this sort of age

499
00:40:16,578 --> 00:40:24,979
of AI then using public key cryptography is the only way you can really decide which way is up

500
00:40:24,979 --> 00:40:35,419
online. So yeah I think NOSTA, tools like NOSTA will become more and more relevant as the world

501
00:40:35,419 --> 00:40:43,758
gets crazier. It's not bot free though is it? No but that's the other thing is that not only is

502
00:40:43,758 --> 00:40:50,638
not bot free bots are first class citizens alongside humans so it's a feature not a book

503
00:40:50,638 --> 00:40:58,178
so you then have to curate your webs of trust um and there's various you know tools and techniques

504
00:40:58,178 --> 00:41:06,858
and projects at the minute that enable you to do that um so you can cut down on some of that bot

505
00:41:06,858 --> 00:41:11,878
behavior but you're in control of that rather than the platform being in control of that

506
00:41:11,878 --> 00:41:15,479
but it's interesting so going back to Dave

507
00:41:15,479 --> 00:41:18,518
so after I set him up with

508
00:41:18,518 --> 00:41:22,838
Nostra ID and Bitcoin wallet

509
00:41:22,838 --> 00:41:26,959
next thing I did is got him a GitHub account so that he could start

510
00:41:26,959 --> 00:41:30,178
triaging some of the BTC map issues

511
00:41:30,178 --> 00:41:33,979
and he was also doing some code reviews and submitting

512
00:41:33,979 --> 00:41:38,078
comments on tickets so that lasted a couple of days

513
00:41:38,078 --> 00:41:39,919
and then his account got suspended

514
00:41:39,944 --> 00:41:46,744
suspended because there's a github policy around bots and i i think you've got to identify them in

515
00:41:46,744 --> 00:41:55,784
a certain way or they've got to verify or approve of the bot um and so it's interesting because

516
00:41:55,784 --> 00:42:02,244
on the nostra side of things like that can't happen you can't you know nobody can tell davey

517
00:42:02,244 --> 00:42:07,504
can't have a nostra account they can choose not to listen to him but and that's entirely up to

518
00:42:07,504 --> 00:42:16,104
them, but they can't ban him. And so that, you know, then gets you into all of the Git

519
00:42:16,104 --> 00:42:25,784
and GitHub on NOSTA projects where, you know, Dave can contribute via NOSTA to different

520
00:42:25,784 --> 00:42:31,104
repos and cannot be banned. You know, obviously the repo only can ban him, but, you know,

521
00:42:31,104 --> 00:42:37,764
the platform provider, the CEO of Nostra can't buy him.

522
00:42:38,804 --> 00:42:43,804
So, yeah, it's really interesting because, yes, bots are first-class citizens.

523
00:42:44,264 --> 00:42:47,144
They have every right to be on Nostra as anyone else.

524
00:42:48,984 --> 00:42:49,964
Interesting, mate.

525
00:42:50,064 --> 00:42:52,624
So what are you working on over on Nostra?

526
00:42:52,804 --> 00:42:54,764
You've got a couple of things boiling away.

527
00:42:55,544 --> 00:42:56,724
Yeah, a couple of side projects.

528
00:42:56,724 --> 00:43:04,444
So we launched Gamester back at Bitfest in November with my son, Sam.

529
00:43:04,844 --> 00:43:09,764
So that's a gaming, decentralized gaming hub.

530
00:43:10,604 --> 00:43:13,404
So it's kind of a games directory.

531
00:43:13,704 --> 00:43:17,644
So there's various people building NOSTA-based games at the minute.

532
00:43:18,964 --> 00:43:25,524
And we list those, but also those games are publishing scores via NOSTA as well.

533
00:43:25,524 --> 00:43:32,224
So that means that all the scores come in, we can list all those scores for the different games.

534
00:43:33,904 --> 00:43:37,084
People can shitpost and zap different scores.

535
00:43:37,244 --> 00:43:41,184
So when people get knocked off the top, then there's a social element to that.

536
00:43:41,684 --> 00:43:54,384
But rather than it being on a per game basis from the game developer, it's all together in one sort of gaming platform that people can use.

537
00:43:54,384 --> 00:44:01,424
so yes me and sam been working on that and that was launched back at bitfest um and then the first

538
00:44:01,424 --> 00:44:08,064
game actually that implemented that was blockster which we also launched back at bitfest which is a

539
00:44:08,064 --> 00:44:17,124
kind of a tetris based game um but you've got to be skillful and lucky because um you only lock

540
00:44:17,124 --> 00:44:23,904
your score in when a block is mined in the real world so you know you can go for half an hour and

541
00:44:23,904 --> 00:44:28,704
have the highest score in the world but if if a block hasn't been hit then your score is zero

542
00:44:28,704 --> 00:44:36,484
so it's a real fun mix between having to be good at the game and being a bit lucky as well

543
00:44:36,484 --> 00:44:44,924
so that was the first game and then it's been really cool actually because we've had three or

544
00:44:44,924 --> 00:44:51,884
four games come online since then by other people that have implemented the same like scoring event

545
00:44:51,884 --> 00:44:56,164
and a lot of them have been like father, daughter,

546
00:44:56,564 --> 00:44:58,064
mother, son, teens or whatever

547
00:44:58,064 --> 00:45:01,204
that have created this using vibe coding.

548
00:45:01,204 --> 00:45:06,684
So our mutual friend Ben Weeks and his daughter

549
00:45:06,684 --> 00:45:10,984
created Space Zappers, I think it was called,

550
00:45:11,084 --> 00:45:13,204
which is a Space Invaders ripoff.

551
00:45:16,004 --> 00:45:19,904
GG launched one just last week with his daughter.

552
00:45:19,904 --> 00:45:23,224
called, what was it?

553
00:45:23,884 --> 00:45:26,644
Unicorns versus something else.

554
00:45:26,804 --> 00:45:27,444
I don't know what it was.

555
00:45:27,444 --> 00:45:31,124
It was some like unicorn action adventure game.

556
00:45:32,464 --> 00:45:35,984
And then the Daniel Justice Weekend

557
00:45:35,984 --> 00:45:38,424
has launched Words with Zaps.

558
00:45:38,524 --> 00:45:40,764
I don't know if you saw that on Noster.

559
00:45:40,924 --> 00:45:43,064
It's basically Scrabble to play a game.

560
00:45:43,764 --> 00:45:45,464
You play it async,

561
00:45:45,704 --> 00:45:49,544
so you don't have to be at the screen at the same time.

562
00:45:49,544 --> 00:45:57,464
So you just take it in turns. And yeah, he's publishing the scores to Gamester.

563
00:45:57,604 --> 00:46:05,784
So if you go to gamester.io, you can see who won which match and what the high word score for that match was and stuff.

564
00:46:06,364 --> 00:46:09,344
And again, it's all integrated with the social stuff on NOSTA.

565
00:46:09,424 --> 00:46:14,764
So you can zap and reply and goad and whatever else you want to do.

566
00:46:14,764 --> 00:46:21,244
so yeah that's kind of the beginning of this the gamester stuff and you know that can go

567
00:46:21,244 --> 00:46:28,304
there's loads of stuff we can do with that in terms of in-game trading different assets so like

568
00:46:28,304 --> 00:46:34,864
you know if in the in the sort of legacy gaming world if you've got i don't know a sniper rifle

569
00:46:34,864 --> 00:46:41,024
on fortnite and you want some obsidian or something in minecraft there's no way of

570
00:46:41,024 --> 00:46:42,464
doing those trades.

571
00:46:43,804 --> 00:46:46,744
Whereas if you've got this decentralized approach,

572
00:46:46,844 --> 00:46:51,024
then you've got some standards that define how you do that,

573
00:46:51,104 --> 00:46:53,864
then you can start to think about, you know,

574
00:46:53,924 --> 00:46:59,924
inter-game trading of stuff, either direct, you know, trading.

575
00:47:00,144 --> 00:47:01,624
I want this, you want that.

576
00:47:02,084 --> 00:47:04,144
Or, of course, with Bitcoin as well.

577
00:47:04,144 --> 00:47:07,524
So, yeah, it's just a play thing for now.

578
00:47:07,524 --> 00:47:12,584
but that could take off into quite a big direction

579
00:47:12,584 --> 00:47:13,924
when NOSTA is ready for that.

580
00:47:14,824 --> 00:47:17,844
So if someone's thinking about knocking up a little game

581
00:47:17,844 --> 00:47:21,564
just for fun, they can just list that on gamester.io

582
00:47:21,564 --> 00:47:23,664
and anybody could go to Gamester

583
00:47:23,664 --> 00:47:25,664
and choose which game they want to play.

584
00:47:26,404 --> 00:47:28,264
Yeah, so if you go to gamester.io now,

585
00:47:28,344 --> 00:47:30,104
you'll see all the games that are listed on there.

586
00:47:30,184 --> 00:47:30,904
You can play them.

587
00:47:31,264 --> 00:47:34,484
We hand off to the websites of host them.

588
00:47:35,444 --> 00:47:37,044
But yeah, if you want to create a game,

589
00:47:37,044 --> 00:47:40,584
There's a developer tab and it just tells you exactly what you need to do.

590
00:47:40,664 --> 00:47:42,384
And there's some code snippets as well.

591
00:47:44,324 --> 00:47:47,324
So then, yeah, you can just five code those up nowadays.

592
00:47:47,324 --> 00:47:52,564
So best place to get started really with NOSTA stuff is Shakespeare,

593
00:47:53,284 --> 00:47:57,464
which is Alex Gleason's project.

594
00:47:57,864 --> 00:47:59,984
And Derek Ross is working on that as well now.

595
00:47:59,984 --> 00:48:03,944
and you can one-shot a video game

596
00:48:03,944 --> 00:48:06,264
that is NOSTA interactive

597
00:48:06,264 --> 00:48:11,044
with this game scoring standard.

598
00:48:12,384 --> 00:48:13,424
Yeah, you'll be up and running.

599
00:48:13,984 --> 00:48:15,504
You probably have a playable game

600
00:48:15,504 --> 00:48:16,404
within 10 minutes

601
00:48:16,404 --> 00:48:19,564
and five books of credits or something.

602
00:48:20,964 --> 00:48:21,484
Wow, man.

603
00:48:21,924 --> 00:48:22,384
All right.

604
00:48:23,004 --> 00:48:24,884
So that's Gamester.

605
00:48:25,544 --> 00:48:27,164
Then Private Identity

606
00:48:27,164 --> 00:48:28,224
is the other thing

607
00:48:28,224 --> 00:48:31,104
that you were playing around with on NOSTA?

608
00:48:31,664 --> 00:48:35,144
Well, yeah, the other thing was, yeah,

609
00:48:35,144 --> 00:48:39,604
kind of like Web of Trust related and attestation related.

610
00:48:40,024 --> 00:48:46,524
So how does somebody else signal that they think something is true or false

611
00:48:46,524 --> 00:48:50,004
or valid or invalid on NOSTA?

612
00:48:51,084 --> 00:48:57,344
So we needed that on BTCMAP because we're going to have to start

613
00:48:57,344 --> 00:49:07,644
verifying physical places with their you know virtual places in Nostra and of course on Nostra

614
00:49:07,644 --> 00:49:18,604
anyone can can claim they are anything and so we needed a mechanism to signal that a place

615
00:49:18,604 --> 00:49:25,924
was valid or invalid at least from a you know BTC maps perspective so yeah I create the

616
00:49:25,924 --> 00:49:35,144
attestation NIP that does that, mainly because, like I say, we needed it for BTCMAP, but that can

617
00:49:35,144 --> 00:49:43,444
then be applied to any other NOSTA event. So really, it's a bit like notarization on NOSTA.

618
00:49:43,444 --> 00:49:52,604
So rather than taking your note down to a lawyer or a notary to say, please, can you stamp this or

619
00:49:52,604 --> 00:50:00,524
notarize this it enables anyone any pleb to notarize any other thing so it can help with

620
00:50:00,524 --> 00:50:06,104
key rotations if you've you know you've lost your nsec and you need to rotate to a new one it

621
00:50:06,104 --> 00:50:12,364
enables you to publicly signal that rotation has has happened because you and i we know each other

622
00:50:12,364 --> 00:50:18,384
in real real life if i tell you that i'm on a new nsec now then you're probably going to signal that

623
00:50:18,384 --> 00:50:24,424
that's a valid new NSEC because we've had a call or we've done some out of band verification.

624
00:50:26,384 --> 00:50:35,124
So yeah, building a tester. So attester.xyz is in progress at the moment. And that's kind of

625
00:50:35,124 --> 00:50:42,684
an attestation marketplace, really. So trying to link people who want things attesting with

626
00:50:42,684 --> 00:50:51,844
attesters that have a given skill set in verifying the thing that the attester wants

627
00:50:51,844 --> 00:51:00,584
to testing um so just trying to surface some of those events because this there it's all new and

628
00:51:00,584 --> 00:51:07,464
you know they're not going to turn up in um in regular clients for now um you know if you

629
00:51:07,464 --> 00:51:28,382
If there a software release you might want to pay for a third software engineer or Dave the AI bot to verify that that code is safe and then to signal that that code is safe to other people who trust their opinion

630
00:51:28,382 --> 00:51:31,142
but are not gonna look at the code themselves, for example.

631
00:51:32,682 --> 00:51:37,682
So it's just this extra layer of web of trust.

632
00:51:38,682 --> 00:51:40,682
So when people talk about web of trust,

633
00:51:40,682 --> 00:51:45,362
they typically think between people or between NPUBs,

634
00:51:45,362 --> 00:51:47,282
you know, who I follow, who follows me.

635
00:51:47,862 --> 00:51:52,002
This sort of gives you a web of trust at an event level,

636
00:51:52,082 --> 00:51:52,822
at a note level.

637
00:51:52,942 --> 00:51:55,582
So it's kind of a layer below that.

638
00:51:56,962 --> 00:52:02,302
And ultimately it's down to people to weigh those signals

639
00:52:02,302 --> 00:52:04,122
however they want to interpret them.

640
00:52:05,022 --> 00:52:06,962
So it can get quite messy at times,

641
00:52:07,962 --> 00:52:12,122
but that is the way of decentralized,

642
00:52:12,642 --> 00:52:13,762
under-permission networks.

643
00:52:13,762 --> 00:52:20,182
they're messy they can be spammy um we just have to figure out the ways to find the signal

644
00:52:20,182 --> 00:52:27,602
so web of trust that that's been something that's like there's a lot of people doing different it's

645
00:52:27,602 --> 00:52:33,942
not obviously it's decentralized uh a lot of people might be hearing about web of trust and

646
00:52:33,942 --> 00:52:39,522
thinking it's kind of a company they're not really grasping exactly what's going on yeah and you

647
00:52:39,522 --> 00:52:47,202
know there are web of trust providers um and but you know with twitter you have a single web of

648
00:52:47,202 --> 00:52:54,042
trust provider and it's it's uh it's well it's elon it's x whereas on nostr you can either calculate

649
00:52:54,042 --> 00:52:59,842
those things yourself or have your client do it or you can you know trust other people to do that

650
00:52:59,842 --> 00:53:06,322
but crucially there's options and if you don't like uh any trust scores that one provider is

651
00:53:06,322 --> 00:53:11,242
providing then you can always switch out to another provider using different algorithms and

652
00:53:11,242 --> 00:53:18,102
different ways of weighing trust um and and switch and move between them at will

653
00:53:18,102 --> 00:53:26,262
so yeah it's not a provider it's not a centralization thing um it's more about

654
00:53:26,262 --> 00:53:34,422
uh yeah making calculations about what you want to see um and how you want to rank the things that

655
00:53:34,422 --> 00:53:42,722
you see so you know i might say you know i trust dan uh i like his taste in beer i dislike his

656
00:53:42,722 --> 00:53:49,542
taste in music so if you post some fountain links i don't want to see those but you know

657
00:53:49,542 --> 00:53:55,882
you become the algorithm right yeah you are yeah exactly that so you're in control of what you see

658
00:53:55,882 --> 00:54:01,542
according to the weights you want to put on it or the provider you want to use yeah

659
00:54:01,542 --> 00:54:06,542
and there's a million ways in this you know like that this whole world that it could go i know

660
00:54:06,542 --> 00:54:12,382
arvi's building something uh another mutual friend of ours benny gun was talking about something to

661
00:54:12,382 --> 00:54:20,022
do with uh insurance uh yeah it's um you know throw a word up there you can probably link it

662
00:54:20,022 --> 00:54:25,822
to a web of trust on muster somehow yeah because that's what it will ultimately all boil down to

663
00:54:25,822 --> 00:54:30,102
is the implementation of decent webs of trust

664
00:54:30,102 --> 00:54:32,622
because otherwise it's just going to be chaos.

665
00:54:33,762 --> 00:54:36,802
So this leads us then to Nostashire,

666
00:54:37,142 --> 00:54:39,562
or Nostashire, however you want to pronounce it.

667
00:54:40,602 --> 00:54:41,242
Depends whether you are.

668
00:54:41,822 --> 00:54:44,262
Yeah, the Americans are Nostashire.

669
00:54:44,542 --> 00:54:45,762
Oh, that's right, yeah.

670
00:54:47,322 --> 00:54:47,922
Nostashire.

671
00:54:48,602 --> 00:54:49,342
What was it, Caten?

672
00:54:49,742 --> 00:54:51,382
Caten called it Nostar.

673
00:54:51,882 --> 00:54:53,662
So that would be Nostarshire.

674
00:54:53,662 --> 00:54:54,642
That's even better.

675
00:54:54,642 --> 00:54:56,442
or Nostashire

676
00:54:56,442 --> 00:54:57,402
so

677
00:54:57,402 --> 00:55:00,742
what was that because you

678
00:55:00,742 --> 00:55:02,862
like you said at the beginning here you didn't

679
00:55:02,862 --> 00:55:04,502
have on your bingo card that you'd be

680
00:55:04,502 --> 00:55:06,722
organizing a festival or

681
00:55:06,722 --> 00:55:08,802
conference but there you were

682
00:55:08,802 --> 00:55:10,822
back end of November I think it was

683
00:55:10,822 --> 00:55:12,682
middle of November that you had a three

684
00:55:12,682 --> 00:55:14,602
day event in Manchester and you

685
00:55:14,602 --> 00:55:16,742
started with the Nostaday and then

686
00:55:16,742 --> 00:55:18,742
two full day Bitcoin event

687
00:55:18,742 --> 00:55:20,802
and there was a music event and there

688
00:55:20,802 --> 00:55:22,602
was well the

689
00:55:22,602 --> 00:55:24,302
whole art exhibition

690
00:55:24,302 --> 00:55:26,282
and everything that was going on.

691
00:55:26,522 --> 00:55:28,542
And a cinema and a kids area

692
00:55:28,542 --> 00:55:29,562
and a gaming area.

693
00:55:30,222 --> 00:55:30,542
Too much.

694
00:55:32,242 --> 00:55:34,542
Talk about biting it all off.

695
00:55:35,202 --> 00:55:35,762
Yeah, well,

696
00:55:36,062 --> 00:55:38,302
we might scale it down next year.

697
00:55:39,742 --> 00:55:41,542
And we'd make it say now.

698
00:55:42,562 --> 00:55:43,562
Yeah, so Bitfest.

699
00:55:44,402 --> 00:55:45,742
So, yeah, amazing event.

700
00:55:46,142 --> 00:55:48,842
I'm told we were in the eye of the storm,

701
00:55:48,982 --> 00:55:50,242
so we didn't really

702
00:55:50,242 --> 00:55:51,882
experience it properly

703
00:55:51,882 --> 00:55:53,902
over the day, apart from

704
00:55:53,902 --> 00:55:58,042
the gig on the Saturday night,

705
00:55:58,402 --> 00:56:00,142
which was pretty special,

706
00:56:00,962 --> 00:56:03,062
kind of a real moment

707
00:56:03,062 --> 00:56:06,622
where we had it live streamed on Nostra

708
00:56:06,622 --> 00:56:08,762
and people were zapping from all over the world

709
00:56:08,762 --> 00:56:12,902
and it was value for value for the artists as well.

710
00:56:13,102 --> 00:56:15,342
So they were getting zapped, streamed to them.

711
00:56:15,582 --> 00:56:17,602
So that really did feel like a moment.

712
00:56:17,862 --> 00:56:20,262
I think we'll look back on that in a decade or so.

713
00:56:20,562 --> 00:56:22,122
And the venue, mate.

714
00:56:22,122 --> 00:56:24,002
Talk about the venue for the Avenue's Ignite.

715
00:56:24,682 --> 00:56:35,082
Yeah, so the venue for the Saturday night festival gig was the ex-Factory Records office.

716
00:56:35,082 --> 00:56:37,642
So in a mill in Manchester.

717
00:56:37,882 --> 00:56:42,322
So think Victorian mill, basement, grungy, arches.

718
00:56:43,382 --> 00:56:52,082
And yeah, Factory Records, which has famously produced some of the big bands coming out of Manchester in the late 80s and 90s.

719
00:56:52,122 --> 00:56:54,322
is now a club.

720
00:56:54,502 --> 00:56:58,642
So we hired the club and held it there.

721
00:56:58,662 --> 00:56:59,402
And we'll do that again.

722
00:56:59,522 --> 00:57:01,722
So it'll be the same venue for next year.

723
00:57:03,102 --> 00:57:03,582
Excellent.

724
00:57:04,122 --> 00:57:05,522
But yeah, it came out of nowhere, really,

725
00:57:05,602 --> 00:57:09,202
because while I was at BTC Prague in June,

726
00:57:09,202 --> 00:57:12,722
I just presented some of the attestation work

727
00:57:12,722 --> 00:57:13,982
at the Dev Day there.

728
00:57:15,482 --> 00:57:19,342
And there was a cypherpunk event on the barge

729
00:57:19,342 --> 00:57:21,182
that they do annually there.

730
00:57:21,182 --> 00:57:40,922
So I went to that and I was talking to Chief Monkey, you know, from the Cleveon market and a couple of other guys, one of which was was Nind, who, you know, is one of the other organizers and main funder of Bitfest.

731
00:57:41,922 --> 00:57:46,102
And Nind's been around forever and everyone knows Nind, but I never met him before.

732
00:57:46,162 --> 00:57:47,022
I never heard of him or anything.

733
00:57:47,022 --> 00:57:54,422
um and i just comes hot off a nosta presentation that i'd been working on for

734
00:57:54,422 --> 00:57:58,402
you know what the the concepts and the theory for months so i was

735
00:57:58,402 --> 00:58:07,082
just absolutely ranting about nosta in this group and an intern ran i said oh i'm i'm putting on a

736
00:58:07,082 --> 00:58:14,802
a nosta event conference the uk's first nosta conference in manchester in november are you

737
00:58:14,802 --> 00:58:16,782
interested and obviously I'm from Manchester

738
00:58:16,782 --> 00:58:17,222
I was like

739
00:58:17,222 --> 00:58:20,822
who the hell are you and yes

740
00:58:20,822 --> 00:58:24,422
and so

741
00:58:24,422 --> 00:58:26,542
yeah we I just

742
00:58:26,542 --> 00:58:28,762
got folded into the team at that

743
00:58:28,762 --> 00:58:29,182
point

744
00:58:29,182 --> 00:58:32,802
the sort of four of us on the

745
00:58:32,802 --> 00:58:34,902
organising team and yeah

746
00:58:34,902 --> 00:58:36,822
so day zero was a full

747
00:58:36,822 --> 00:58:39,042
NOSTA day so it was the UK's

748
00:58:39,042 --> 00:58:40,362
first NOSTA conference

749
00:58:40,362 --> 00:58:42,842
there'd been NOSTA events before but

750
00:58:42,842 --> 00:58:44,722
this was a full on

751
00:58:44,722 --> 00:58:53,242
schedule. I think we had, well, we kicked off at like nine through, I don't know, five or something.

752
00:58:53,242 --> 00:59:00,982
So we had, I don't know, 10, 15 speakers and talks and stuff and people coming from all over

753
00:59:00,982 --> 00:59:09,062
the place. It was really good to see and ended with a remote fireside with Fiat Jaff, the protocol

754
00:59:09,062 --> 00:59:16,622
creator at the end of the day with um with ben ark and uh and co so that was cool constant was

755
00:59:16,622 --> 00:59:24,782
up there as well um so yeah really good um and then we went into the bitcoin day days i should

756
00:59:24,782 --> 00:59:35,042
say on the saturday and sunday um with we had like breakout areas second stages for uh the sort of

757
00:59:35,042 --> 00:59:43,982
hack area. We had a full cinema for the two days running back to back. Well, both long

758
00:59:43,982 --> 00:59:51,782
form and short form videos, including kind of Q&As with movie makers and documentary

759
00:59:51,782 --> 01:00:00,142
makers and stuff. So yeah, it was pretty full on. I think Sunday people were running out

760
01:00:00,142 --> 01:00:14,022
of energy um the um oh we've got ava here say hi hi hi ava um so so yeah i think so we decided

761
01:00:14,022 --> 01:00:18,802
we're just spinning up for next year in terms of planning and stuff so definitely happening

762
01:00:18,802 --> 01:00:25,762
again uh people want us to do it again and the pain has subsided enough now for us to think that

763
01:00:25,762 --> 01:00:26,522
It's a good idea.

764
01:00:30,362 --> 01:00:32,522
So, yeah, we'll do it again.

765
01:00:32,622 --> 01:00:33,162
Same time.

766
01:00:33,302 --> 01:00:37,102
So it'll be November 20th, 21st, 22nd.

767
01:00:37,302 --> 01:00:41,202
We'll do the Noster Day Zero Friday, full-on Noster Day again.

768
01:00:42,042 --> 01:00:44,862
We'll just do one day on the Saturday with Bitcoin.

769
01:00:46,362 --> 01:00:48,702
And then the Sunday will be a chill day.

770
01:00:48,702 --> 01:00:58,982
So we'll do walks or other sort of side activities so people can just relax a bit more rather than sit down and listen to talks.

771
01:00:59,442 --> 01:01:17,099
Just make it a bit more festivally We still do the big night on the Saturday so we do value for value gig and get as many um uk and international artists there so um of essex will no doubt be

772
01:01:17,099 --> 01:01:24,339
involved in in getting that together again with nc and other people yeah good old aaron we call

773
01:01:24,339 --> 01:01:32,499
murray now we've renamed him oh yeah what's that uh he the the band uh the band manager from the

774
01:01:32,499 --> 01:01:41,619
flight of the concords oh of course yeah yeah oh he's great yeah shout out to murray and uh and to

775
01:01:41,619 --> 01:01:46,099
nat as well who was a big part of that not only putting it together but then getting up and like

776
01:01:46,099 --> 01:01:53,939
rapping out of like what i had no idea um meaning i've been working with him for months and we've

777
01:01:53,939 --> 01:01:57,439
We've been looking at spreadsheets and agendas and, you know,

778
01:01:57,499 --> 01:01:59,180
all the nonsense you have to do.

779
01:01:59,619 --> 01:02:02,079
And then I knew he was going to get up and do something.

780
01:02:02,219 --> 01:02:05,300
But like when he, when he got up and did his thing,

781
01:02:05,319 --> 01:02:06,819
I was absolutely blown away.

782
01:02:06,939 --> 01:02:08,959
So a very talented guy.

783
01:02:10,439 --> 01:02:12,660
So yeah, we get to do it all again and we'll have,

784
01:02:12,839 --> 01:02:16,579
we'll have the same MPUB dub,

785
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:20,619
the dub night on the, on the Friday again.

786
01:02:20,619 --> 01:02:28,660
but yeah just trying to contain it a little bit more we'll probably do the movie thing but not just

787
01:02:28,660 --> 01:02:34,180
not over the few days we might just put say one movie on on the sunday for people that just want

788
01:02:34,180 --> 01:02:39,979
to chill with the hangover or whatever but yeah we'll still do the kids zone we'll still do the

789
01:02:39,979 --> 01:02:45,999
art zone we'll still do the hack zone and then just just have the two conference days rather than

790
01:02:45,999 --> 01:02:50,680
free yeah the hack zone i didn't even really get to spend too much time in there there was so much

791
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:57,180
going on but that's where the dude is it viking was uh sending uh nosta messages via a satellite

792
01:02:57,180 --> 01:03:06,939
and and has uh nikos nikos yeah crazy uh satellite guy yeah he's been doing some wonderful stuff so

793
01:03:06,939 --> 01:03:15,059
he's um he's not only hacking around with the whole mining stuff but uh but yeah we were sending

794
01:03:15,059 --> 01:03:22,979
uh nostrum messages via satellite uh to and from space effectively um and he's doing loads of crazy

795
01:03:22,979 --> 01:03:32,920
stuff with uh with bitcoin mining via satellite now as well yeah uh value for value where do you

796
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:41,520
feel we are in that journey um it's hard to say really because i'm not on the recipient side of

797
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:49,400
that i think we're super early so as a user uh i stream sats to people when i listen to their stuff

798
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:56,160
um i hope you are listening to this on fountain or and you're streaming sats to dan and the team or

799
01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:02,859
you've you've paid for early access or whatever so like i go out of my way to spend sats but

800
01:04:02,859 --> 01:04:08,079
i'm not sure why everyone's like that um and you've probably got a better idea on the other

801
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:15,020
side of the table as to as to whether b4b is working or not i'm doing my best we're early

802
01:04:15,020 --> 01:04:21,619
we're early yeah let's put it that way uh and i do hope though there has been a there has been a

803
01:04:21,619 --> 01:04:28,079
shift from listenership away from the the closed gardens of spotify or apple or wherever you were

804
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:33,299
listening to it before uh because now when i not that i really ever look at the metrics or analytics

805
01:04:33,299 --> 01:04:37,520
but I remember checking in like three or four weeks back and the number of

806
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,440
Fountain listeners was like, Oh wow. I think it was a majority.

807
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,400
So that's brilliant. Okay, cool. That's amazing to see.

808
01:04:44,379 --> 01:04:48,520
It's great people for anybody that's boosting and streaming. That's amazing.

809
01:04:49,119 --> 01:04:52,440
And then the lads, Nick and Oscar, who I love, you know,

810
01:04:52,499 --> 01:04:54,479
great Britcoiners as well.

811
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,280
The fact that Fountain app has come out of the British aisles as well is

812
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,140
brilliant. It's so great.

813
01:05:00,140 --> 01:05:01,799
and

814
01:05:01,799 --> 01:05:04,499
one of the biggest

815
01:05:04,499 --> 01:05:06,599
proponents of Value for Value

816
01:05:06,599 --> 01:05:08,499
was Joe obviously

817
01:05:08,499 --> 01:05:09,540
and then Aaron

818
01:05:09,540 --> 01:05:12,020
and Nathan Abbott

819
01:05:12,020 --> 01:05:13,660
this is really

820
01:05:13,660 --> 01:05:16,239
strangely British

821
01:05:16,239 --> 01:05:17,020
so

822
01:05:17,020 --> 01:05:19,140
it's great to see

823
01:05:19,140 --> 01:05:21,719
in fact Oscar and the guys

824
01:05:21,719 --> 01:05:23,839
were at Bitfest

825
01:05:23,839 --> 01:05:25,920
and when we were doing

826
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:27,819
the Value for Value gig obviously

827
01:05:27,819 --> 01:05:29,799
stuff stops working

828
01:05:29,799 --> 01:05:35,499
so like just before everyone's going live we were messing around with all these settings and

829
01:05:35,499 --> 01:05:41,499
changing the zap streams and all this kind of stuff it was it was chaos but it worked yeah

830
01:05:41,499 --> 01:05:49,420
but against all odds it worked it was absolutely amazing but then they they launched uh and by the

831
01:05:49,420 --> 01:05:54,739
way for anybody that's interested if you want to watch the the podcast you can now do that on

832
01:05:54,739 --> 01:05:59,619
fountain app as well it's brilliant like there is no point for youtube anymore i stopped oh i

833
01:05:59,619 --> 01:06:00,780
I didn't see that. That's cool.

834
01:06:01,299 --> 01:06:05,499
Stopped uploading to YouTube because of they've enabled the video feature.

835
01:06:05,619 --> 01:06:08,719
So you can now do that on the web app or the mobile app as well.

836
01:06:09,459 --> 01:06:12,239
So if anybody was unaware of that, you can do that.

837
01:06:12,999 --> 01:06:15,180
And where was I going with this?

838
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,400
Ah, the subscription model.

839
01:06:17,819 --> 01:06:20,040
It's like, okay, let's launch that.

840
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:24,420
And, you know, for those people that hate ads, they don't like the ad reads.

841
01:06:24,420 --> 01:06:27,280
They don't like the listening to the three or four minutes at the beginning.

842
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:33,040
and a lot of podcasts now do mid-rolls

843
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,199
and then at the end as well.

844
01:06:36,020 --> 01:06:39,400
So the idea being if somebody pays,

845
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,999
and I charge 2,100 sats because no, $2.10,

846
01:06:43,079 --> 01:06:45,040
you have to set it in fiat and then it does the conversion.

847
01:06:45,359 --> 01:06:48,479
So $2.10 or whatever equivalent of satoshis that would be

848
01:06:48,479 --> 01:06:49,879
for somebody to buy the ad free.

849
01:06:49,879 --> 01:06:52,559
It turns out nobody hates the ads that much.

850
01:06:52,559 --> 01:07:01,459
just just fyi there's a level there's a level somewhere and it's below

851
01:07:01,459 --> 01:07:13,879
yes uh so that's um that that's the feedback uh i can give uh and then people can subscribe if

852
01:07:13,879 --> 01:07:20,940
they want to pay five dollars a month um some do some don't like uh it's still so early uh and

853
01:07:20,940 --> 01:07:31,640
And that's, I feel for the musicians that, you know, truly deserve, you know, more.

854
01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:32,760
Yeah.

855
01:07:32,999 --> 01:07:40,160
And that's what guys like, yeah, Open Mike and Aaron are pushing now, isn't it?

856
01:07:40,180 --> 01:07:43,979
Which is to get the sats directly into the hands of the artists.

857
01:07:45,780 --> 01:07:49,699
So, yeah, I mean, I was distributing some of those sats from Bitfest.

858
01:07:49,699 --> 01:07:51,479
and those guys were getting

859
01:07:51,479 --> 01:07:53,099
decent chunks

860
01:07:53,099 --> 01:07:55,940
certainly more than they ordinarily get

861
01:07:55,940 --> 01:07:57,739
doing that type of gig

862
01:07:57,739 --> 01:08:00,119
so it was working

863
01:08:00,119 --> 01:08:01,599
so we just got to

864
01:08:01,599 --> 01:08:02,379
build

865
01:08:02,379 --> 01:08:04,859
one step at a time

866
01:08:04,859 --> 01:08:07,819
and make it more compelling for people

867
01:08:07,819 --> 01:08:10,359
to part with their sats

868
01:08:10,359 --> 01:08:11,400
but it also

869
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,059
is down to the plebs

870
01:08:14,059 --> 01:08:16,219
to change themselves

871
01:08:16,219 --> 01:08:17,319
they've got to power this

872
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:18,520
revolution

873
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:22,619
or otherwise, you know, it's going to peter out.

874
01:08:23,420 --> 01:08:24,180
The year of Speddon.

875
01:08:25,180 --> 01:08:26,199
There we go.

876
01:08:27,299 --> 01:08:29,160
That's your little meme, I believe.

877
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:31,680
So maybe.

878
01:08:32,619 --> 01:08:36,319
So I definitely independently came to it,

879
01:08:36,540 --> 01:08:40,119
but I think somebody pointed out, as with anything in Bitcoin,

880
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:42,640
is that, you know, somebody said it 10 years prior.

881
01:08:43,499 --> 01:08:45,299
If you go to some subreddit.

882
01:08:45,299 --> 01:08:45,699
Yeah.

883
01:08:45,699 --> 01:08:52,680
Yeah, so I don't think I can claim, you know, original art on it, but it seems to be getting a bit more of momentum now.

884
01:08:52,879 --> 01:08:53,619
There's hashtags.

885
01:08:56,079 --> 01:09:01,339
And yeah, I think last year we're starting to see the change in that in terms of merchant adoption.

886
01:09:03,180 --> 01:09:09,319
And I think through this year, for example, BTC Prague is focusing on using Bitcoin.

887
01:09:10,099 --> 01:09:12,879
So there's going to be much more focus on that.

888
01:09:12,879 --> 01:09:20,260
So I think we'll see more narrative around using Bitcoin for what it was actually meant for, which is just money.

889
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:22,160
Just use it as money.

890
01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:24,839
So I was going to ask you about Prague.

891
01:09:24,900 --> 01:09:27,020
Are you going to be doing any kind of presentation there?

892
01:09:28,260 --> 01:09:28,719
Yeah.

893
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,319
So doing a BTC map presentation.

894
01:09:32,839 --> 01:09:38,020
And then I'm also curating the gaming zone there as well.

895
01:09:38,299 --> 01:09:39,739
The gaming zone is back, huh?

896
01:09:39,879 --> 01:09:41,160
Yeah, the gaming zone is back.

897
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:42,920
Martin's wrote me into that

898
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,299
I need to be better at saying no

899
01:09:45,299 --> 01:09:46,680
but I'm terrible so

900
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,539
It was a big miss last year

901
01:09:49,539 --> 01:09:50,020
though

902
01:09:50,020 --> 01:09:53,359
Yeah I mean there was some game in there but it wasn't kind of

903
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:55,039
like coalesced together

904
01:09:55,039 --> 01:09:56,859
but they're

905
01:09:56,859 --> 01:09:59,660
almost compensating

906
01:09:59,660 --> 01:10:01,520
for that this year so there's going to be

907
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,559
a much bigger gaming area this year

908
01:10:03,559 --> 01:10:05,619
with

909
01:10:05,619 --> 01:10:07,180
a variety of different games

910
01:10:07,180 --> 01:10:09,700
both physical like board game stuff

911
01:10:09,700 --> 01:10:11,680
and also video game stuff.

912
01:10:13,059 --> 01:10:17,760
But yeah, I think we've got like a 20-odd-meter section

913
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:19,979
of the Expo Hall to fill.

914
01:10:21,140 --> 01:10:25,819
So yeah, it'll be much bigger than it was in years one and two.

915
01:10:27,119 --> 01:10:27,940
Awesome, mate.

916
01:10:28,559 --> 01:10:30,440
So yeah, that'll be fun.

917
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,460
What else is there left to discuss?

918
01:10:34,779 --> 01:10:37,020
Did we hit all the bullet points before I...

919
01:10:37,020 --> 01:10:38,640
I think that's pretty much everything.

920
01:10:39,700 --> 01:10:41,059
yeah

921
01:10:41,059 --> 01:10:42,879
that's sort of

922
01:10:42,879 --> 01:10:54,057
keeping me busy at least too busy alright mate well if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody who would you give it to Oh I forgot about this question

923
01:10:54,557 --> 01:10:56,897
Can I not just give the same answer I did last time?

924
01:10:56,957 --> 01:10:57,997
If you can remember it.

925
01:10:59,577 --> 01:11:00,797
What did I say last time?

926
01:11:02,457 --> 01:11:04,257
Oh, it was around traveling, wasn't it?

927
01:11:06,697 --> 01:11:07,097
Yeah.

928
01:11:07,857 --> 01:11:09,737
I think I said I'd give it to myself,

929
01:11:09,737 --> 01:11:13,717
but not because of a financial get into Bitcoin early,

930
01:11:14,317 --> 01:11:17,157
but just so that when we did our big trip,

931
01:11:17,557 --> 01:11:22,157
I could meet up with all the Bitcoiners around the world as we were traveling.

932
01:11:22,717 --> 01:11:24,057
I think that was my answer last time.

933
01:11:24,097 --> 01:11:25,217
So I'm going to stick with that.

934
01:11:27,237 --> 01:11:28,037
Excellent, mate.

935
01:11:28,077 --> 01:11:29,517
And any big trips planned or not?

936
01:11:30,497 --> 01:11:33,637
Yeah, we're out to Japan, actually, over Easter.

937
01:11:34,477 --> 01:11:37,497
So I got three weeks traveling around there.

938
01:11:37,497 --> 01:11:44,757
so on foot so we're not we're not shipping the rig out um but uh but yeah connecting with the

939
01:11:44,757 --> 01:11:51,777
guys at the tokyo bitcoin hub so we're going to do an event there um get some uh get some local

940
01:11:51,777 --> 01:11:57,597
connections uh which is it's great and that's one of the benefits of btt map really which is

941
01:11:57,597 --> 01:12:03,057
there's always somebody somewhere that we can talk to and get a more local experience when we're

942
01:12:03,057 --> 01:12:10,477
traveling so yeah it's cool but like that that app and club orange now are so key for yeah when

943
01:12:10,477 --> 01:12:16,637
you're traveling you just it just it transforms everything like you you've plugged straight in

944
01:12:16,637 --> 01:12:22,437
it's just unbelievable yeah yeah so looking forward to that one it's a couple of weeks away

945
01:12:22,437 --> 01:12:28,817
excellent all right mate well thank you for coming on and uh my pleasure anybody wants to get tickets

946
01:12:28,817 --> 01:12:30,977
in advance for BitFest

947
01:12:30,977 --> 01:12:32,897
in the back end of November?

948
01:12:33,297 --> 01:12:34,977
Is that live yet?

949
01:12:35,097 --> 01:12:35,637
Have you got that up?

950
01:12:35,637 --> 01:12:36,857
I don't think it's live at the minute.

951
01:12:37,097 --> 01:12:40,277
We're just migrating the website over.

952
01:12:40,477 --> 01:12:42,817
So I think there's a form you can fill in

953
01:12:42,817 --> 01:12:44,737
and we will let you know

954
01:12:44,737 --> 01:12:46,337
as soon as tickets do go on sale.

955
01:12:47,417 --> 01:12:49,037
I suspect they'll be on sale,

956
01:12:49,397 --> 01:12:50,797
I don't know, in the next month or so.

957
01:12:51,197 --> 01:12:52,997
We'll probably do an early bird special

958
01:12:52,997 --> 01:12:55,837
to try and get the Bitcoiners

959
01:12:55,837 --> 01:12:58,397
to buy their tickets before the day before.

960
01:12:58,817 --> 01:13:03,397
So any conference organiser will tell you it's an absolute nightmare

961
01:13:03,397 --> 01:13:07,317
because you think nobody's coming and then like hundreds of people turn up.

962
01:13:08,057 --> 01:13:12,477
So please buy your tickets early so that we know what to do.

963
01:13:12,957 --> 01:13:17,517
It's funny because all of the conference organisers that I've spoken to

964
01:13:17,517 --> 01:13:19,237
have echoed this exact same thing.

965
01:13:19,757 --> 01:13:21,677
And when you speak to the player, it's like,

966
01:13:21,997 --> 01:13:24,337
oh, why don't they do that like price trick thing?

967
01:13:24,457 --> 01:13:26,717
Like, you know, buy it like six months in advance.

968
01:13:26,857 --> 01:13:27,597
It's 50 bucks.

969
01:13:27,597 --> 01:13:32,437
it's unfair that they keep increasing the price you're like we're just begging you to buy tickets

970
01:13:32,437 --> 01:13:41,177
it's the easiest way to support a bitcoiner building something is you know book your tickets

971
01:13:41,177 --> 01:13:46,877
early get it done and and then book your hotel early you'll save so much more money doing it

972
01:13:46,877 --> 01:13:52,557
that way as well yeah and it comes back to the whole spend thing it's like if you know if you

973
01:13:52,557 --> 01:13:59,877
want to wait for the bitcoin price to go up and you know you've got some fiat anyway then it doesn't

974
01:13:59,877 --> 01:14:07,457
really matter um particularly if it's only a ticket for a conference anyway um if you've got

975
01:14:07,457 --> 01:14:12,417
fiat in your bank account you're short bitcoin in the first place so you know just just get on with

976
01:14:12,417 --> 01:14:19,517
it uh spend the sats um help help conference organizers uh plan because that's the big the

977
01:14:19,517 --> 01:14:28,017
big problem um with we're talking about potentially having uh tickets in sats only so we had fiat and

978
01:14:28,017 --> 01:14:34,277
sats last year i'm personally very keen to just have bitcoin only because if you're not willing

979
01:14:34,277 --> 01:14:40,797
to spend bitcoin on a ticket to go to a bitcoin conference then uh don't come you know that's

980
01:14:40,797 --> 01:14:45,577
that's where i am personally uh i'm not sure i'm going to get that past the other guys but we'll see

981
01:14:45,577 --> 01:14:53,337
I think there's a misconception out there as well that the conferences are just money making spinners for new organizers.

982
01:14:53,897 --> 01:14:57,037
It's like, oh, no, we lost. We lost money and we'll lose money again.

983
01:14:57,437 --> 01:14:59,177
Yeah, it's not why we're doing it.

984
01:14:59,177 --> 01:15:01,537
And even the big ones. All right.

985
01:15:01,577 --> 01:15:08,157
Like, look, we're not talking about Bitcoin magazine and those disastrous Bitcoin conferences that they put on.

986
01:15:08,357 --> 01:15:11,537
I'm sure they're money spinners, but that's all for the wrong reasons.

987
01:15:11,537 --> 01:15:14,457
but if you're going to look at BTC Prague, for example,

988
01:15:14,957 --> 01:15:16,557
they've got a big team together.

989
01:15:16,797 --> 01:15:18,877
Like, you know, it's...

990
01:15:18,877 --> 01:15:21,697
Yeah, nobody's getting rich out of conferences,

991
01:15:22,037 --> 01:15:22,657
that's for sure.

992
01:15:23,397 --> 01:15:25,217
And generally, people that are doing it

993
01:15:25,217 --> 01:15:27,257
have never been conference organizers in the past.

994
01:15:27,397 --> 01:15:28,577
And, you know, they're just doing this

995
01:15:28,577 --> 01:15:29,937
for the love of Bitcoin.

996
01:15:30,497 --> 01:15:30,737
Yeah.

997
01:15:31,037 --> 01:15:32,997
And trying to carve a niche out

998
01:15:32,997 --> 01:15:37,297
for us to all get together, basically.

999
01:15:37,297 --> 01:15:42,177
And I think I saw something the other day.

1000
01:15:43,097 --> 01:15:46,417
Matteo posted maybe a review,

1001
01:15:46,777 --> 01:15:48,637
somebody's experience from Club Orange.

1002
01:15:49,337 --> 01:15:52,237
And, you know, friend around and find out is my new meme.

1003
01:15:52,677 --> 01:15:57,157
Because when you actually meet other Bitcoiners in real life,

1004
01:15:57,457 --> 01:15:58,417
look what happens.

1005
01:15:58,737 --> 01:16:02,797
Like your perfect example, Front Row, Riga, like, fuck.

1006
01:16:03,177 --> 01:16:06,877
We've got to fix like this idea of where do we spend our sats

1007
01:16:06,877 --> 01:16:14,497
and we need a map and who's where is the map and what can we leverage within what like 24 hours you

1008
01:16:14,497 --> 01:16:21,597
had two other people like friend around and find out guys like this is getting in real life

1009
01:16:21,597 --> 01:16:28,037
situations with each other is just yeah it's like the meme with a guy dancing on the hill isn't it

1010
01:16:28,037 --> 01:16:35,297
you know yeah i love that one what's that song that's such a catchy tune

1011
01:16:35,297 --> 01:16:38,877
incredible yeah

1012
01:16:38,877 --> 01:16:40,617
I'm going to go and listen to that

1013
01:16:40,617 --> 01:16:42,997
alright mate I'll send you

1014
01:16:42,997 --> 01:16:44,577
I'll send you that meme now

1015
01:16:44,577 --> 01:16:47,017
alright well thanks a lot

1016
01:16:47,017 --> 01:16:48,977
people can find you on NOSTA

1017
01:16:48,977 --> 01:16:51,117
obviously I'll put your own pub

1018
01:16:51,117 --> 01:16:53,257
in there and your twitter account

1019
01:16:53,257 --> 01:16:55,257
and the BTC maps for everybody to go follow

1020
01:16:55,257 --> 01:16:55,657
as well

1021
01:16:55,657 --> 01:16:57,997
awesome thanks a lot man

1022
01:16:57,997 --> 01:16:58,797
see you mate

1023
01:16:58,797 --> 01:17:03,617
well thanks again Nathan

1024
01:17:03,617 --> 01:17:05,317
thank you everybody for listening

1025
01:17:05,317 --> 01:17:07,657
if you want to know more

1026
01:17:07,657 --> 01:17:09,917
reach out to Nathan on Nostra

1027
01:17:09,917 --> 01:17:11,677
he's definitely most

1028
01:17:11,677 --> 01:17:13,717
most of his days spent

1029
01:17:13,717 --> 01:17:15,557
there rather than Twitter

1030
01:17:15,557 --> 01:17:17,397
I mean he's on both but

1031
01:17:17,397 --> 01:17:19,757
you'll definitely get more of a response

1032
01:17:19,757 --> 01:17:21,257
from him on Nostra

1033
01:17:21,257 --> 01:17:23,337
if you want to go over to

1034
01:17:23,337 --> 01:17:24,917
Manchester and

1035
01:17:24,917 --> 01:17:27,497
enjoy the conference

1036
01:17:27,497 --> 01:17:29,457
that they're going to be putting together again

1037
01:17:29,457 --> 01:17:30,637
towards the end of November

1038
01:17:30,637 --> 01:17:33,137
make sure you reach out to either

1039
01:17:33,137 --> 01:17:39,577
myself or Nathan go to Nathan directly and get your tickets get show your interest and and help

1040
01:17:39,577 --> 01:17:47,777
support these efforts and yeah pay in bitcoin like this is the thing the year of spedden or

1041
01:17:47,777 --> 01:17:54,697
like the rest of your life of spedden it's um it's very important and and I I hope that

1042
01:17:54,697 --> 01:18:02,817
conversations like this and b2c maps and other tools that are getting built out around the world

1043
01:18:02,817 --> 01:18:08,717
are going to be able to unlock you to be able to start using your Bitcoin.

1044
01:18:08,877 --> 01:18:10,757
Because the minute you can start using it,

1045
01:18:10,877 --> 01:18:15,977
the easier it will be for you to start living in that parallel economy

1046
01:18:15,977 --> 01:18:22,617
and planning for your future properly because you're on sound money.

1047
01:18:22,817 --> 01:18:24,877
Yes, the price is volatile and whatever else.

1048
01:18:25,557 --> 01:18:29,877
But just one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin.

1049
01:18:30,257 --> 01:18:31,457
Keep stacking your Bitcoin.

1050
01:18:31,457 --> 01:18:37,277
If you want to escape from your fiat life like Nathan and so many of us have,

1051
01:18:38,437 --> 01:18:41,397
start looking at these tools, what you can use.

1052
01:18:41,737 --> 01:18:43,437
Make sure you've self-custodied your Bitcoin.

1053
01:18:43,957 --> 01:18:45,757
Make sure you're meeting other Bitcoiners.

1054
01:18:45,877 --> 01:18:48,577
Get out to your local meetup.

1055
01:18:48,657 --> 01:18:50,037
You can find it on Club Orange.

1056
01:18:50,337 --> 01:18:53,877
If you don't have a local meetup, start it and list it on Club Orange.

1057
01:18:54,477 --> 01:18:59,697
I guarantee you'll find something or someone within 50 miles of you once you've downloaded the app.

1058
01:19:00,097 --> 01:19:01,297
Go and connect.

1059
01:19:01,457 --> 01:19:06,477
and go and start having conversations and go and figure out what it is that you can do to make a

1060
01:19:06,477 --> 01:19:12,897
difference to carry this thing forward and get into the conferences is a great way to do that so

1061
01:19:12,897 --> 01:19:19,157
manchester is one towards the end of the year dublin is coming up that's going to be back end

1062
01:19:19,157 --> 01:19:25,537
of may it's like the 20 between the 22nd 25th if i'm not mistaken you can use the code bitten

1063
01:19:25,537 --> 01:19:33,557
link in the show notes you've got prague june 11th to 13th and you can again use the code bitten

1064
01:19:33,557 --> 01:19:41,077
get your discounted tickets like uh use it don't use it and abuse that 10 discount

1065
01:19:41,077 --> 01:19:47,517
uh and helsinki btc hell that's going to be an interesting one because that is going to be

1066
01:19:47,517 --> 01:19:56,857
September time so that's just after the BIP 110 activation date and that's going to be an

1067
01:19:56,857 --> 01:20:03,057
interesting point it's either going to be a real mess or everything would have activated in that

1068
01:20:03,057 --> 01:20:08,057
direction who knows I don't know what side of the fence you sit on that or if you're sitting on the

1069
01:20:08,057 --> 01:20:13,837
fence up to you do your own research there's plenty of essays out there now you can go back

1070
01:20:13,837 --> 01:20:20,657
and listen to my episode with reno cooney to listen uh and get up to speed on his 15 part essay

1071
01:20:20,657 --> 01:20:27,477
series but otherwise that's all to be said for this thank you so much for nathan coming on i

1072
01:20:27,477 --> 01:20:29,537
hope to catch you guys on the next show