Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin
could mean for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show.
Thank you so much for listening.
to this idea that we have all been bonded slaves since birth because we were registered by our
parents in all caps names and we are nothing but corporation each of us conducting ourselves
unknowingly under universal commercial code and legislations and statutes and acts and bills and
rights none of this is law right none of it is law law as i've come to learn is natural law you
know you don't kill people you don't steal people's things and you certainly don't uh harm people in
any way uh and obviously there's a strong sense of property rights in natural law as well
everything else that has been layered up on top of that is legal legal stuff um made by
generally unelected bureaucrats sitting in ivory towers trying to validate their existence and this
is the whole part of the system you know that's been built on top of this fiat monetary hellhole
that we have all found ourselves born into kevin takes us all the way back all the way back to the
early, early days of Ireland and how disputes were handled back in those days. And he teaches
everything about this that you need to know. He travels around the world speaking at conferences.
We need to get him at a Bitcoin conference. I met him at Bitcoin Ireland, but I'd love to see him
more and doing more presentations about this kind of stuff. It's really excellent knowledge.
and I hope you enjoy this one.
The story he tells at the end about his courtroom drama,
you might have heard of this before.
You might have heard of people tell you
that they knew a guy that went to court
and as long as he didn't say his name,
then he was kind of skirting around the officials there.
Kevin had this exact experience many years ago
and he takes us through the whole story.
So I hope you enjoy this one.
Please reach out to Kevin after the show.
Before we get into it, big thank you to the show sponsors, SwanBitcoin out in the US.
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your meetups now i talked about this with richard greaser on a couple of episodes ago no more with
the pleb no more pleb language we're pioneers it's much better don't meet your local pioneers
get out there meet them join a meetup start a meetup get to a conference we've got some coming
up. Bury St. Edmunds, 21st of September in the UK. Yes, you get a 10% discount if you hit the link
in the show notes. Great list of speakers. Brilliant Bitcoin is going to be there. Then you have
BitFest and Nostashire in Manchester, 21st to the 23rd of November. Again, the link is in the show
notes. Please get along and support if you are local to these regions. And in the Balkans, the
Bitcoin Balkans in Bulgaria is back.
Sophia is waiting for you, that's the city,
to come and talk as much as you can with fellow pioneers about Bitcoin.
They've got a great list of speakers.
I was there with the family last year.
It was an incredible time.
They're wonderful hosts.
And if you've never checked out Bulgaria,
it's a beautiful country for you to go and check out.
Finally, Bubble.fm.
go and check out what they can offer you they're gonna they've got the technology now here i go i've
run out of music they've got the technology now that they can track all of the the bitcoin
conversations across your favorite podcasts and stitch together certain topics that you want to
listen to specifically it's a brilliant way to get your uh yourself up to speed on certain topics
and should be part of your 40 hours per week listening toolkit meanwhile let's get on with
this one with kevin thank you for listening i hope you enjoy it here we go all right we are recording
kevin got you uh got you on the show we finally got it together after meeting you in ireland
and a big shout out to val who introduced us uh pleasure to meet you again and been looking forward
to this conversation so thanks for coming on you're welcome uh daniel and i'm very happy to be
here and uh thank you to val as well because she just wouldn't have happened if she didn't connect
the two of us at the Dublin Bitcoin conference.
And the reason she did is because she knows that I've been falling down like the sovereign
rabbit hole.
And at that conference, Carl Deans gave a talk from the Sovereign Project where he was
talking about the difference between maritime law and what you might call common law.
I'm still a noob in this area.
I've got my Black's Law Dictionary here, which I leave through of an evening just trying to
look at the definitions of words.
And yeah, right, enough teasers.
This one's going to be a lot for people to take in, I think.
But Lauren's going to fire off with the first question.
What is real law?
Huh.
Okay.
Well, if you look at the maxims, which are considered to be statements of fact,
the legal maxims there is one that says contract makes the law so what that means how i interpret
that is a man can only be bound to do that which he has agreed to do and all of the law is formed
around agreements so in this state of nature we're completely free we're free to go where we want
We're free to do what we want. We're even free to kill if we want to.
Now, in order to have a civilized society, what we do is we agree to forego some of those baser instincts, those wild instincts,
and to become more civilized in return for protection from the state,
in return for, you know, to have a peaceful society.
So this is even seen in how we pass legislation.
So you have two houses.
Typically, you have a biomarkerial system, which means two houses.
and one of the houses puts forward a suggestion for a law.
We call it a bill at this stage.
And this, once they have debated the bill,
it will be sent to the other house.
So let's say that the House of Lords or the House of Commons
puts forward a piece of legislation that will then be sent to the House of Lords
and they would debate it there.
And it's only when those two houses have an agreement
that the contract is formed and we can call that.
a valid law. Now, I studied jurisprudence when I was in university, which was a long time ago,
and there's a number of different types of law. So, for example, the most,
probably the most, the law that people are most familiar with is called natural law.
now when i was studying jurisprudence i thought i was very much into the natural law i knew about
it but the thing is with natural law as soon as you write it down it stops being natural law
becomes positive law what does that mean it means it's posited by man and so these are that's that's
The thing I'm talking about, I'm thinking about here are the likes of statutes and case law.
It's now positive law.
So it's positive law.
And then you move on to this theory called legal realism, which is basically the law is whatever the judge decides it is on the day.
now this is um this is a reason why i have kind of taken a back seat on the sovereign and
sovereign topic because i would consider myself to be a bit more of a legal realist now so you
can go into court and you can make all of these wonderful arguments but it's the judge that you
need to persuade and we there's a famous quote that the judge decides the law based on what they
had for breakfast and so if you're a good lawyer you know the judge because you might have worked
with him before you know what buttons to press and what topics to avoid and you would advise your
client accordingly so that's probably a longer answer than you were you were looking for um
but that's that's that's what i think the law actually is i think it's
there all these theories around it but they only theories it only what what law is is whatever the judge decides is the law on the day
Which is a scary place to be, to be quite frank.
Yeah.
Because you have no idea who you're going to come up against and you have no idea.
Like you say, you know, that saying depends on what they had for breakfast.
These are just human beings, right?
You have no idea what's going on in their personal life, what's happened to them.
that morning and what kind of mood they are in and whether or not they've seen uh that they might
just have some kind of negative disposition towards your demeanor whatever it could be
and they hold all of that power yep crazy yep all right well we're gonna we're gonna go through
the whole history of how we ended up here kevin and you're gonna help us walk that walk us through
that did you have any further questions no but thank you for answering mine you're welcome all
right well don't forget that coffee thank you bye bye bye so let's your your background there you've
already thrown in a few kind of um words here that i was just jotting down i think you said
jurish prudence was that what you said yes it's another word for legal philosophy
legal philosophy jurish prudence all right so let's take us back what got you why were you led
down this path this is obviously something you chose to to do at university yeah that's a kind
of a big question because okay let's go all the way back to i was getting my leaving certificate
results which is the equivalent of a level or o level i'm not too sure whatever the last one is
in in the uk and i got maybe a medium score you know i got 330 points which was kind of average
you know and in Ireland you you can pick your course based on the amount of points that you get
so there was a guy in my class who's who I shouldn't name but uh he got about 550 points
and the maximum amount of points is 600 okay so just to be clear and I remember thinking to myself
wow I actually said it to him you could do anything with that like what are you going to do
and he kind of goes I'm going to study law and I remember thinking to myself I'd never be able to
do that like that's beyond me you know what I mean and so I went to study computer multimedia
design very far away from where I lived I ended up dropping out about two months after
just because I wasn't enjoying it and it was too far to travel this sort of thing and I started to
work i worked for three years in um call center and i i was doing the call quality so you know
that thing was like these calls may be recorded for training and quality purposes i was the one
that was listening to those calls um and i was getting itchy feet and i wanted to go traveling
so when i was about 21 22 i went traveling to india by myself backpacking for three and a half
months and that was a real like eye-opening experience because this was the first time I
was completely alone where I didn't have to be a son or a boyfriend or a friend or you know I was
just I was just completely there by myself and whatever I did was completely and entirely up to
me and then you start to like lose these layers of ego and what you're left with is you right so I
went to India with this notion that I was going to find myself and then on the last the last month
or so I was sitting on the side of the Ganges in Rishikesh and I was like I was here all along
because I'm me right so what are you looking for I'm me so I don't need to go searching for
who I am because I'm always there you know and and that kind of reminds me of the Beatles song
without going out of my door I I can know all things on earth without looking out my window
I can know the ways of heaven the further one travels the less one knows the less one really
knows it just like it just hit me that I was already there so I came home with this like new
enlightenment and I had been reading a lot about self-realization while I was in India
and you know practicing yoga and mantras and doing all of the ashrams and that sort of stuff
and it was really cool it was a really eye-opening experience I met some wonderful
people over there and like-minded people and so then I came back home to Ireland and I was always
into I was always into conspiracies right what do I mean by that it's like 9-11 was an inside job
the fiat currency is is is fractional reserve and usury you know that's that was like the initial
kind of exposure that I had to understanding the world around me. And when I look back now,
I was always looking for an answer and looking for something that I could grab onto and say,
there's something more than what we can see with our five senses. Right. And so I started to read
about the law. I started to, I first saw a documentary or like a presentation by John
harris called it's an illusion of reality and i still remember the first night i watched it because
i was in my friend's house around the corner and they were all my friends went into town but i
ended up staying in my friend's house to watch this because i didn't feel well i didn't really
want to go out um and i was watching it and i was like this definitely something to this like
he was talking that was the very first time i heard about state bodies are registered
corporations on Dun & Bradstreet.
And then I went and I looked and I found that they are actually registered bodies on Dun & Bradstreet.
And then that sent me on a rabbit hole.
And I started to read as much law as I could.
Things that come to mind are things like Creditors in Commerce by Winston Shrout.
and so what I did was I actually got a job working in a call center for a bank
and I didn't enjoy it because I knew it was around the time that the recession had started
right it was like 2007 2008 that sort of era
and because i knew how money actually worked we would have old ladies ringing into the
to the call center saying very like feeble voices saying like i'm really sorry i don't like my my
money is not is my money safe is this and that and i knew that the money was fake i knew that it was
fake not that it's fake it's just like it doesn't have the sort of reality that would cause you to
have an emotional reaction to it do you know what i mean and it's it started to weigh on my
conscience like very heavily and um one day i came across this platform called ning.com and
this is like a platform where you can build your own social media
and you can have members, you can have a gallery, you can have forums, you can have places or videos.
And it was very easy to set up.
And I maybe I need to backtrack a little bit here.
part of the reason why I decided to set up the website was because
I had taken two trips of acid and it wasn't the first time I had done acid but this was the most
profound experience I've ever had on psychedelics and to make a long story boring and I call it my
night of a thousand epiphanies because all of that stuff i'd been reading about the law
suddenly made sense it clicked in my brain it was like i got it and i and i got it in such a
profound and fundamental way that i never really lost that and so for example one of the things
that I realized was
the stuff I was reading about in the law,
which we now call sovereignty,
is the exact same as what I was reading about in India
about self-realization.
Like, I had this profound realization
that the reality that I was experiencing
was fundamentally mine and mine alone.
I can't share my reality with you or with anybody else.
And so therefore, if I perceive problems,
they are my problems and i must go and do something about that
and this was a very it was a it was a whole night you know of a of a trip and uh the next day the
next morning i got i didn't sleep actually i went down to the sitting room and i started to write my
claim of right do you know what a claim of right is let's get into it please i i want people to
understand what that is okay um maybe i'll come back to that in a few minutes okay um i started to
plant vegetables in my garden that that same day you know and uh i just had this profound sense of
knowing and purpose and uh i remember i was living with my girlfriend's family at the time
and her mother came down and she was very religious this this this woman and i was sitting
at the table and i was just kind of downloading information and talking and she was like you have
the holy spirit in you i recognize it you know and i was like okay well if dr hoffman is the
holy spirit perhaps i do have the holy spirit in me but then i just wanted to lay that context
and so I wrote the claim of right which is basically
you send a notice to certain people in the government to say
you make your claim which is I am a free man living on the land of Ireland
and you basically lay out your rights
I claim I have the right to religious freedom, spiritual freedom
I claim I have the right to possess any plant you know that sort of thing because I was uh yeah
smoking weed at the time um and other stuff as well like it wasn't all that it was like I claim
that that like legislation and statutes do not apply to me and you rebut the assumption that
they do and maybe we can get into this in a bit more detail because uh what I realized was um
there there a such thing in law called capitis diminutio which is how your name is displayed and it like status capitis means status right and it the diminution of status based on how your name is presented So if your name appears in all caps it not you It a
corporate entity, which we call a person. Okay. And that's why legislation applies to persons,
not to flesh and blood men
and
yeah it applies to persons not to flesh and blood men
and there's another maxim in law which is a thing can only have authority over
that which it creates and so since the government created the legal
person that's how it has authority to put the
acts and statutes onto you if you acquiesce and consent
to that so the claim of right is basically a document where you're rebutting the assumption
you're rebutting the connection the join there between you and the person and you say i the
living man i'm standing on the land of ireland and here's the rights that i claim and you have
30 days to rebut this in law and who would you send that to you would send it to the attorney
general the t-shock the i was even sending them to um the secretary generals of the departments
because civil service is very powerful in this country and secretary general is the is the main
man and like so we had a secretary general that was over the department of the government and the
department of the t-shock and so t-shocks come and go but he stays in the same position what's
t-shock sorry oh t-shock sorry is a chieftain it's no it's a it's a it's what we call the prime
minister okay wait a minute so you'd write it if you're british you'd write a letter to
kia starmer directly yes yes i love this but in your case you'd probably write it to the queen or
to uh sorry king charles so you'd you'd write you'd write this letter out would you did you
handwrite it or did you type it up i typed it out and then i signed it on the right hand side
not on the left hand side with what color pen um i would sign it with a blue pen or even a red pen
it depends how serious it is because the red pen symbolizes blood right and that's why it's rude
to write in red pen because it symbolizes blood and this yeah and that's mate this is like the
education system how they completely program you into believing red ink is bad because all you see
is the red ink of all the you know some yeah you might get the odd tick and but it's generally
crosses and what you've done wrong and little notes and how you could be better and this is
why you are always you you fear the red pen and the red pen is for the teacher it's not for you
the red pen is the teacher the authority and so something as well um people might not be
too aware of the the black ink that you're forced to sign these forms in in your all caps name the
black ink is basically you know that depicts that's the color of the dead man at sea yeah
well i think the reason why we don't use black ink is because it's difficult to um to tell an
original from a copy a photocopy right so you right okay yeah that makes a lot of sense because
you write this letter and then you want to send it off to 10 people let's say so then you take the
blue pen or the red pen or purple purple is another option if you want it to be more regal i suppose
but let's just say blue don't go too crazy and then you sign that off so it is
autographed by a living man or woman because that is indisputable and then you send these off
and you say and this is important you have 30 days to respond and what can you tell people why
that's important because you have to give them a chance to rebut and what i would typically do
well it was a long time ago now and i'm not i'm not in this world anymore and i would follow that
off with another letter and offer them a chance to rebut and what you're what you're establishing
here is the valid claim because you put things in it like silence is considered agreement,
he who does not rebut is deemed to accept. There's other maxims you can put in it that kind of add
the emphasis. And so I would write then with a follow-up letter and saying like, since you have
not replied within 30 days, I'm now giving you another opportunity to rebut these and here's my
claims and you have now 14 days and then the final notice is you could give them seven days
if you wanted to be really good if you want to be really kind you can give them another seven days
there's a good chance they won't respond because they don't want i don't this is me speculating
now right it's like they don't want to lose any animals from the ranch and but i think most of the
time they just don't understand what the document is saying it's not it's like um don't attribute
to malice what you can attribute to ignorance right um so to go back to the story what i did
after that trip i i remember standing in the kitchen making a cup of tea and i looked out
the window and i was just thinking to myself i have to go out there i have to do something
because if not me then who and if not me then why am i complaining about it
you get me and just as i was thinking that i looked down at the the clock of the cooker
the oven and it said 505 which i took as sos and it like it hit me so hard i was like i actually
got onto the floor and i was like no way it was like a validation of all the stuff i've been
thinking about you know now that night i had this is before i made the cup of tea and seeing the sos
i was thinking like how can we how can i and my group of friends live outside of the state and i
said well we can just get our own piece of land and then we will live contract you know we'll
contract the law and we'll live by agreement and then i heard a voice in my head which said and it
it shall be called Tir Naseer.
And that's what it is.
It shall be called Tir Naseer,
which is Irish for land of the free.
Tir Naseer.
Ti, I, for the ore.
Yeah.
Na, N-A, that's of the,
and seir, or sir,
soar is freedom,
land of the free.
Right.
So,
a couple
it was about
the next week
maybe or maybe
a couple of days
after that
I was about to get
ready to go to work
and I just
went on to
ning.com
and I just typed in
Tyrannasir
freemanireland.ning.com
was the URL
but the name of the website
was Tyrannasir
and it was wonderful
I mean
it couldn't have come
at a better time
like
by the time
I got home
from work
there was already
like 10 or 15
members
had signed up to it
and by the time I wrapped it up it was around 5000 and now it went for about five years or maybe
maybe more um yeah around five years and then it was a wild adventure
um it was probably one of the the most educational and the best times of my life
and that okay so that led me then into looking into the brehon law
and having an interest in law in general and then so let's just establish brehon breton
how do you spell it what does it mean it's you spell it b-r-e-h-o-n and it was the law in ireland
before we were colonised.
Yeah.
And it was never given up voluntarily.
It was stamped out by oppressive penal laws.
So I think that the Breton law, okay,
Breton comes from the word Britiv, which is the Irish for judge.
So it was like judge made law, okay?
So how far are we going back?
Let's go back in the Irish history.
okay so it was stamped out in the early 17th century right so not that long ago
in the scheme of things and it goes all the way all the way back before before time right
pre-history it's prehistoric and i and i was just watching your talk actually the one you gave in
prague back in 2016 and you touched on this and there's a few really interesting points that
you mentioned that uh ireland was never invaded by rome they got to the uk
all this will do stopped and didn't bother uh you know go and then they started pushing their like
their civil laws onto onto those people whereas ireland remained free throughout that whole
period so can you explain to people why it's important to understand the difference why
why it's so important that rome didn't get to ireland and why there was such a different law
there at the time well the honest answer is i don't know and there's a lot of speculation about
why did rome not invade ireland and they also didn't invade scotland i should say
that's why the hadrian's wall was built by roman roman soldiers or whatever and
so i would be speculating if i was to say reasons and there's i've recently come across
some very interesting theories that suggest that and the the irish christian church
was, it rivaled the Roman Christian church.
And there's a lot of discussion around this Catholics and Protestants
thing in Northern Ireland, in Ireland in general.
But the thing is, like, Protestantism didn't exist for around 400 years
after the invasion.
so you have to understand that these were two groups of catholic people at the time
were rivaling with each other and what was so different about ireland and the uk which wasn't
it didn't exist at the time but like england what we call england today and you have to say that it
must have been a clash of legal systems and so the breton law was very different than the
crown law of the UK or what we now call England or Britain.
So this is, have you heard of the phrase beyond the pale?
Beyond the pale.
Yes, I have, but I can't, I don't know what it would even,
I heard it but I don know what it would yeah go ahead I going to tell you what it means So the area that was initially colonised by Anglo not English and not British people but Anglo
they had a lot of area in Leinster that was called the Pale.
The Pale, because there was basically a fence separating that land
from the outside Wild Irish.
Okay.
And so that fence was called the pale because it comes from the Latin word for palus, P-A-L-U-S, which incidentally comes from the Latin word for phallic, phallus, right?
And you would imagine why, because it's a, yeah.
Yeah.
and then so everything outside that was beyond the pale it's like it's it's wild it's untrained
it's it's this and that so i think that um and i should say that i was born in england right i was
born in in london so this is not me like having a go at any english people and
i think that there was a lot of racism directed towards irish and i i can i have a good reason
why that was the way it was but um in in the 1300s um i think it was i don't know who was
the king at the time in england he he issued the statutes uh statutes of kilkenny they're called
And in it he said things like,
a traitor to this crown.
Hmm.
So you have to really reflect on that a bit.
These Anglo-Norman lords later became
what we called Nisgallinanna Gaelfane,
which means more Irish than the Irish themselves.
So they were really subsumed
into whatever the Irish had going on at the time.
Now, why is that interesting?
because arguably you would say that they had access to the king's law,
the crown law,
but they preferred to go to the Brehens for a resolution of their disputes.
Why?
Arguably because it was fairer.
It was Edward III, I've just found out.
In 1327, that was came in.
Right, okay.
so yeah this is the i suppose the the real beginning the creep of statism
um yeah you could say that you could say that because the this is what was beautiful about the
brechen law it was it was designed in such a way that it could be self-executing
so you didn't require state intervention it just didn't didn't need it and the laws that were made
the king was bound to those laws as well as the ordinary common man.
And he would probably be held to a higher standard
because of this thing called honour price,
which was an additional metric
that could be taken into account by the Bretons
when deciding the appropriate amount of restitution.
The other thing is there was no enforcement mechanism,
i.e. there was no police force.
or king's guard you know who could be called on to enforce the law and this this comes up
in quite an interesting way when you look at the first copyright case that ever existed
it was between uh two monks two saints saint finian and saint columb kill and it centered
around the dispute of the copying of a manuscript. So St. Finian had a, I think it was the Psalter
of Jerome, and St. Colm Kill got his hands on this and he just decided to copy it without
asking for permission. Now, books in early Ireland, believe it or not, were very valuable.
and the once the christianity came to ireland in 432 ad our people tended towards like a more
peaceful existence obviously there were still skirmishes and obviously there were still like
faction fighting and stuff like that and but overall there was a trend towards the written word
so this was very important these these books were very important in early ireland
and and have you ever heard the phrase to every cow it's calf every cow it's calf yeah no this is
the case that it came out of and so what the brehens had to do is they had to find a rule
from nature like find a principle that's evident in nature and apply it to the facts of the case
and then tell that outcome in poetry in a form of a poem yeah so all of the judgments were given as
a poetry um and that's interesting as well because when you go far enough back this what we call the
brehon and the philly which is the poets they were all considered to be druids which is very far back
in the uh in the historical record so you can imagine that there was these druids that were
kind of high priests and lawgivers and poets and musicians and then as time went on they
specialized into different fields and so come back to the case they they had a court case
the the king um was the judge because that was typical for the time and then the judge said
to every cow it's calf, to every book it's little book.
Which means to every cow belongs it's calf
and to every book belongs it's little book.
Which meant that Finian, he was the rightful owner of the little book,
which was the copy, the copy of the manuscript.
And that's considered the first copyright case ever in the world.
It was a couple of hundred years before the statutes of Queen Anne.
so what happened
well there was no police force to enforce the judgment
so typically what happened was
a judge, a Brehan
would be so revered and his words would be considered sacred
and that's why they spoke in the poetic effect
just to give it that extra gravitas
you know that the people would just follow it because it felt right it felt like the right
thing to do and if you didn't follow it you'd be you'd be out you could risk being outcasted by
your community and you'd lose the protection of the law that you had shunned so unfortunately
there was no enforcement mechanism and this led to a great battle the battle of dual krivna
i might be i might not be pronouncing that right but the battle of the book is another
another way that you can describe this battle and column kill and finbar or finian he he um
they both raised these massive armies well they weren't massive armies they were just like it was
a battle um and because of the bloodshed there's a legend that says column kill put himself into
exile to Iona and he never set foot on Ireland ever again now that must have been a big deal for
him because he came from a noble family he came from a noble O'Neill clan I can't remember which
which one in particular but um he went over to Iona and he founded a monastery there
and that became the the temple of Iona the the the monastery of Iona but where is Iona
it's off the coast of scotland okay so not too far you can probably still see ireland on a clear day
you know um but far enough back then you know what i mean it was fair enough for them you know
and so why am i telling you all this because i want to i want to introduce you and your audience
to the concept of Breton Law, but also to bring in this idea of why was Rome against Ireland?
Why did they feel threatened by Ireland?
Now, a lot of people don't realise that King Henry II, I think, the guy who was king at the time of the invasion,
he was sanctioned by the Pope, Pope Adrian, who was the first and only ever, what we would call today, English Pope.
and when you read the papal bull laudabiliter it says it says things like uh okay so he gave
the pope gave the king the title of lord of ireland not king of ireland just lord of ireland
and that was like the representative of the vatican and this comes back to legal person and title
see how it all like knits together that's a title that was granted to the king on behalf of the
Vatican. Why? Because the Vatican wanted to do a couple of things. They wanted to collect a penny
tax per household and they wanted to make sure that the Irish were following the Roman liturgy,
the Roman catechism. They didn't like Ireland because it was almost as if they were saying
everything so long as it's not Gaelic. So long as it's not Gaelic. And why were they saying that?
because after the fall of Rome, all of the monarchies in Europe were getting the authority from the Pope.
It was the bishops who put the crown on the head of the king or the queen, but not in Ireland.
In Ireland, we had traditions that lasted for thousands and thousands of years,
customs that went on as far as time can, as far as old as the hills or as old as the rocks, as they used to say.
since time immemorial we had these customs where you could stand under a sacred tree called the
billa or on your sacred rock or your your coronation mound okay and you'd perform the
ritual of your people your tribe and you could become a king you'd be recognized as king among
your people but they were calling it re or t-shock that's where the word comes from
and that was a threat
to the authority of the Vatican
and
Is this all clicking together, right?
And so the Vatican was more interested in subduing the Gaelic people
and the Gaelic customs.
And this is why I mentioned about this Protestant and Catholic
disagreement up in the north.
The Troubles, as we like to call it euphemistically.
the Pope,
he,
as time went on
and you had this,
this,
like,
Protestantism was made,
right?
King Henry VIII,
he created the Anglican Church,
Protestantism now exists,
and so on and so forth.
The Pope never condemned
their actions in Ireland after that.
Like the Vatican,
I meant to say.
never condemned their actions in Ireland,
even when the Tudors came in and they were doing plantations.
The Pope never explicitly disclaimed that.
So that leads me to believe that the Pope and the English
were kind of working in tandem with each other
to suppress the Gaelic culture and the Gaelic identity.
and that's why it's very sad when you see this like these two factions uh up the north are in
ireland and probably in scotland as well that they're fighting for two empires that are not
their own what do i mean by that the vatican and the crown neither of those empires belong to the
people and they are the subjects of those two entities those two institutions and that's very
sad for me because i want irish people to fight for gaelic ireland once again you know i want i
would prefer if i would prefer if we would go back to our celtic church which was very different than
the the catholic church right um but anyway i feel like i'm kind of going on it on a tangent here
Well, it all leads, you know, all roads lead to Rome, I suppose.
Rome, exactly.
And so there's a lot.
So there's two words here.
Anarchy, which gets bandied around a lot in Bitcoin circles.
What is anarchism?
And I guess that leads also into like a spontaneous order
because there's all of, again, there's a lot of talk in Bitcoin circles about building citadels,
right? Like you wanted to do with your project, you know, Freedom of the Land,
where people just want to congregate, like-minded people. It's very much like the idea of Galt's
Gulch in Ayn Rand's book. Atlas Shrugged, I was blanking on the name. So, yeah. Is this,
is this a possibility in your mind well let's start with how would you define anarchism because
to a lot of people they hear the word and they just think oh my god you know no rules anyone can
do whatever they like that would just be an absolute like you know nightmare that's that's
what the uninitiated uninitiated nor we would just think in that i agree i mean i would say
that anarchy does not mean no rules it means no rulers and that's a very different thing than
saying there's no rules because we can contract what those rules are and that comes back to the
first question that your daughter asked me what is real law law is whatever you said something
really cool something like a man is bound to do only that to which he has agreed yeah a man is
only bound to do that which he has agreed to do because contract in contract exactly yeah so so
what we live under at the moment we have not contracted ourselves at all to do any other
shit that we're forced to do like pay income tax pay council tax uh you know okay contracts can be
expressed or implied and you can you can accept them through your implied performance so when you
apply for a pps number or a national insurance number right that's you giving consent to be
governed that's the trap that's been set that's the trap that's been set and we spring every
single time we're filling out one of these documents right exactly and so um your your um
what what do they call it your your self-assessment your your income tax self-assessment you you just
sprung the trap that the minute you're at the minute ink touches paper uh you and you know we
can get into like uh how a contract's supposed to look and all the boxes on the page and all the
ticks and you've got to sign it in black and all this kind of stuff but that's you setting the trap
and you are now ensnared yeah um so yeah a man can only be bound to do that which he has agreed
to do but you can be presumed to agree based on your performance so when you are paying tax or
when you are applying for a national insurance number or i i see it as a parallel to what happens
in the church what do i mean by that the birth certificate is the baptism into the state you
still there yeah yes birth certificate is the baptism into the state and the the nhs number
the national insurance number sorry is is um equivalent of confirmation that's when your
your parents are pledging you to the state or to the church when you're a baby and then when you're
older when you're come of age you you reaffirm you reaffirm that commitment by saying hi i'm a happy
citizen can i have a tax number please because i want to i want to give you the money back
for half of my labour or whatever it is.
So, you know, we do agree to be subject to the crown or the state
in our actions throughout our life.
And it's very hard to be a full free man, a full sovereign.
Because the way I look at it is, okay,
like when we are gay, when we are communicating with each other, it's like one king talking to
another king, one sovereign addressing another sovereign, right? And so when we enter into a
contract with each other, that's the equivalent of an international treaty between two states,
right? Because there's four, this is this, you like this, there's four characteristics of a
sovereign state in international law okay so they're talking about the state here okay like
the big collective state but where did they get the idea for that i think they took that idea from
natural law which is two men are in nature they approach each other they shook hands because they
were afraid that they were going to stab you know that they they held on to each other's fighting
hands and that and they held on to it while they while they spoke because it was keeping your hand
away from the sword that's where the handshake actually comes from and and we're gonna agree
that like this piece of land over here is mine and that piece of land over there is yours and we won't
we won't encroach on each other's property right i don't think rights exist i think instincts exist
and we all have an instinct to defend ourselves and to defend our family which includes the things
that we own this is where the right to defend the right to defend your property even up until death
actually comes from it doesn't come from rights because they don't exist show me a right you know
it's just something that we collectively agree exists for the sake of uh for the sake of
like peace you know they're interesting concepts but in nature they don't exist what we have is
instinct and based on those instincts we build the law on top of these instincts that all human
beings tend to have so um i forget what i was saying
yeah what were we talking about uh and how did it come around you were talking about ah right yes um
contract you've got two kings making a contract oh i got you yeah i got you yeah yeah so and that's
That's where you would say contract makes the law because you can only be bound to do that which you have agreed to do.
Now, enter the state.
The state has placed an assumption that you are a person.
And we accept that all the time when we go into court and they say, hello, Daniel Prince.
And they're not talking about you.
They have a summons on the desk, which is Daniel Prince in all capital letters.
And they say, is Daniel Prince in the court today?
is this entity is this person in the court today they'll never call you a man they'll never call
you a woman they call you a person which if you you said you had the black's law dictionary there
if you look up a person what does it say it says a corporate entity it says a person is a thing
it's an object so coca-cola is a person of course because it's it's a it's a corporate entity um so
then they will say do you understand the charges today mr prince but that doesn't mean do you
comprehend it means do you stand under the charges do you stand under the charges so what the judge
has to do is the judge has to get you to agree to be bound to the responsibilities and the
the obligations of the person.
And how do they do that?
With language.
They use language to trick us into consenting,
to be a legal person,
to be this entity.
And that's the entity that they created.
And therefore, you have to be bound,
not you, the man,
but the person is bound,
but you accept responsibility for the person
when you agree in court
through your actions and through your words.
that you will pay for the fine now why is that interesting because i've been in court uh plenty
of times okay you've got you've got some you've got some previous there well maybe we can tell you
that story you know uh later yeah but what did what tends to happen is right in the district court
anyway is that the the the accused he says like the judge asked some questions and he says yes
that's me and whatever they leave the room with the with the arresting officer they sign a piece
of paper and then they come back in and they say the judge goes is that your signature and he says
yes why do they do that I don know why do because they want to make sure they want to they want your consent every step of the way and you agree to everything when you in court
well the uninitiated man would agree to everything
because that's the way it's designed that's the way it's set up
so right okay hang on i've got a lot of stuff to get
when you were studying all of this would you go to courts and watch cases
um occasionally yes because that's probably the best place for someone to start if they want to
start learning this thing and seeing for themselves what's going on in the courtroom
yeah as far as i'm aware i've never done it i think you can just turn up and sit in a gallery
of most courts you can in most courts just not family court okay yeah fine so that
could be a good place to start for those people that want to truly go down the rabbit hole and
yeah to your point I've got Black's Law in front of me the 1970 it's a fifth edition I think it's
1973 I can't remember it doesn't say on the front here but whatever in well Black's Law do you before
I read out do you want to explain to people why Black's Law Dictionary is completely different to
like your Oxford or your Merriam-Webster so it's a different language and this is how you interpret
legalese which is the law the language of the law society and that that's just clicked with me
actually you were talking about druids earlier uh the the brehons brehons am i saying yeah yeah
yeah uh they they the the wise most likely men uh you know in those days you could have women as
well but let's just say most of them are men yeah okay wise sages that um you know druid have a
certain look right let's say they probably got long hair um so you can this if you juxtapose that
to today you've got the guy sitting there in the wig or the lady sitting there in the white wig
and then they would talk in poem back in those days because that would give them more gravitas
whereas here they take they're talking legalese so it's the same shit just a different flavor
and when they speak in legalese you're just wowed you're like oh wow they they're very
they're very learned aren't they you're opening up so many doors in my mind i'm so excited to have
this conversation okay come on let's go then like well do you want to do you want to uh read out what
it says about oh yeah person um in black's law in general usage a human being and there's even like
a question mark over what a human is right we could humanism okay go on yeah a human being
um i.e natural person right it just says person again under its own definition though by so in
general usage a human being though by statute term may include a firm labor organizations
partnerships associations corporations legal representatives trustees trustees in bankruptcy
or receivers national labor relations act number two blah blah blah and then it goes on bankruptcy
at Bankruptcy Act Corporation. And then it defines everything that I've just said. So there you go,
guys, you are literally a walking talking corporation, because at the time of your birth,
your birth was registered by your parents, unbeknownst, so they didn't have full consent
in what they were doing. And because your name was in all caps, and you were born in a foundling
hospital that you were literally given up for adoption to the state by filling out that birth
certificate and that's as dark as it gets really and what does human say human um i've tried looking
up this before monster i think that's ballantyne's law dictionary that says that i don't think i've
looked it up before in this particular one and i think it was just pretty normal but
let me just double check
so
I don't know where to go now
because you've opened up so many doors
of avenues in my
mind
go where you see fit
what was I saying about the druids
and dressing up and wearing the wigs
here's the thing right
you were more accurate than you may have
even realised because that's why we call them
magistrates
where does that come from magistrate
Magi straight
what's Magi?
Magi is a magician
when you get down to
the grassroots of these words
it's so interesting
and the trickery that they've played
they, who are they?
well whatever
that's a different
go on, keep going down that
so when you're getting called to court
what do you get in the door?
or a summons right is what uh i think most people would call it i would also call it that because
that's what it is and uh back in the day back in the days of john d the astrologer and a cultist
for um i think it was queen elizabeth the first john d john d d e yeah yeah okay he he was a he
was a brilliant man he was the guy who coined the term he masterminded the british empire
the naval empire he he um he masterminded the british empire he was he was like trying to um
uh he was trying to do the find to find the philosopher's stone
which is how do you turn base metals into gold i don't i just want to put my phone on mute here
right so he was he was an alchemist he was he was an alchemist and he was a scientist and he was a
natural philosopher all of these things kind of rolled into one and he had a friend called um
what was it
i can't remember his name but this friend was apparently very good at summoning spirits
summoning demons well he thought they were angels but let's just say that they're they're
of the angelic family which includes demons and you would never say john d was a madman
because of his brilliance and he was writing these diaries and this is the way these spirits
tend to work they they kind of lure you in with a little bit of this and a little bit of that
and they were always going to get the knowledge but the thing is like the spirits they they they
were very intent on corrupting these two these two men and they eventually said that you need
to swap your wives which back then was was adultery and it was a ten commandment it was a mortal sin
you know and as far as i know they did actually do that in the end but the reason i'm bringing up
john d is because he had a lot of magical books and not just him like all of the alchemists at
the time they they had they didn't separate the sciences yet this edward kelly that you were
talking of edward kelly that that was okay yeah it says here uh john d met a young con man named
edward kelly his life took a turn for the weird right okay okay well that's that's that website's
opinion that he was a con man but okay right i don't know i don't think he was a con man i think
if anything maybe john d was manipulating edward kelly you know um but anyway that's kind of not
the point the point i wanted to make is in order to summon a spirit you need a couple of things
you need a piece of paper with words written on it which is a magic spell you need to know the
name of the demon and you need to have a magical symbol or a sigil in order to have power over it
now go back to that summons that comes through the door right and think about the elements that
that that you feel compelled luckily enough i've never had one and touch wood here i'm
so i've not seen one but i can imagine what it looks like uh it will have a symbol on it
right probably a magistrate's court or something like so a magic symbol on the envelope in fact
i think i think it will have the symbol of the crown right um funnily enough i've been receiving
these um as you can see the symbol here that that's the symbol that would be on the top of
the letter yeah and look at that symbol just look at that symbol yeah tell me it's not magical
of course it is you've got a unicorn on it you've got all kinds of random shit yeah uh you've got
language you don't understand the unicorn is symbolic of scotland and it's that that that
horn on the head is supposed to be the third eye but it's also chained by the neck so is it like
suppressing this anyway i feel like i'm going on a tangent here the main point i wanted to say was
it has a magical symbol in ireland would be the harp it has the book of instructions like the the
the words that dispel
and that has
the name of the spirit who they're trying to summon
and it's you
and so you feel compelled
when you open this letter you're like
oh no I have to go to court
but it's not really you
it's not really you it's just a piece of paper
with your person's name on it
not even your person
our person's name on it
wild mate
and so that's why that's why we call them magistrates because straight is a word for
strategy it's a root word for strategy magical strategists and so you can imagine the two
advocates the two lawyers who all three of them represent are members of the law society
so they're all speaking legalese but what the lawyers are doing is they're it's like they're
conjuring up spirits to go and fight each other so you you create this uh beast through the legal
arguments you build it you build its attributes you build its like armor and everything and then
the next lawyer comes in and goes i'm going to attack that weak point or this weak point and that
weak point and this is why we say objection because you're throwing you're throwing a cube
in front of the in front of the argument you know you're throwing a triangle or a cube an object in
front of the argument that's being conjured objection you're you're putting up an object in front
uh to shield um to shield that right okay to shield that beast that you have built and presented
in the court man this is wild i'd never i'd never thought of it like this um it's never
been presented to me in this way yeah you know i've gone down the maritime law rabbit hole and um
and how so let's say you get to the court you're summoned to the court and you get to that court
is it true that you you need to walk through a little gate to to take the the stand whatever
they call it. In some courts, yes, it's true.
Right. And the minute you do that, that is symbolic of you leaving the land and entering
a ship in dry dock I don know I mean i heard this before obviously i heard this before but i don know where people get that idea from because it only if it depends on what you
have done in the court before that point do you know what i mean it's not i don't think it really
makes sense that you're leaving dry land and you're going into the into the ship in the dock
perhaps that's true i don't know um but i've only had experience in the district court
um i've been to other courts as well just to watch them like you know but i've only been
in the district court um and i i know about the marathon i know a lot about maritime law how
you know everything that's on water is considered a a commodity and so when you come through your
mother's water to the dock who has this who signs the certificate of manifest because you've appeared
and that's the birth certificate right um and then you have you have the the banks of the river
and the currency flows between the banks and the latin word for a bench for a bank is bench
right and the judge sits on the bench and rules from the bench which is the bank okay so i do i
definitely think there's something to that whole uh i mean i know there's something to it but i just
haven't been able to figure out exactly what and how it works and how you can make it work for you
so i wouldn't i wouldn't feel comfortable risking that anymore but when i was younger i did you know
i did feel comfortable to risk it right okay and then there's probably worth talking you mentioned
something earlier the paper ball uh what is that okay so it's it's it's basically like um it's a
spell right um because the grammarians i would consider and grammarians are the men who write
right i would consider them to be the most powerful wizards of our time because what they put on paper
becomes fact becomes law and so you were talking before about what's what's true law
this would be considered positive law and this this this type of law and and it's it's kind of
at the end of the day, force makes the law.
Force is the thing that makes the rules.
And the state is a monopoly of force.
And the Vatican is a state.
And so I would imagine that, I would suggest that the papal bull is a law that's written that applies to Catholics especially.
but anybody who believes it or accepts it um it has has power so in that sense they are like magic
spells because what is a spell but a collection of words that's where we get the word spellings
from you know um a collection of words but if you can get if you can convince people that it's it
actually has power it comes back to the summons like why do you go to court when you get a summons
because you feel emotionally compelled to go and appear in court.
And it says you must appear at this date and at this time.
And then as if by magic, there you are on that date and on that time and in that location.
So it's all about belief.
And that led me to my master's degree, which is in politics, philosophy and economics.
and I wrote my thesis on
okay let me ask you this question
what gives law its force
money its value
and government its authority
belief
exactly
it's all in the mind
we imagine all of this into existence
so and that's not to say it's not real it is real but that's the power of our imagination
even think of that i magi nation i magi nation imagination i am magician and i form a nation
with my thoughts and so i wrote my thesis i was going to write it on
I wanted to blow the lid off the whole system you know and talking about law government and money
but I went to my president of my university to show him my proposal and he just kind of looked
at it and goes this is a crazy proposal I was like I know like where else am I I was actually
in a private university and it was a very small class and I was like where else am I going to get
a chance to do this you know and so what i decided to do then was to just like focus on money as a
belief system and i was uh talking about the origins of money how it started as uh holy medals
like talismans and i even talked about the temple of moneta do you know moneta is a roman goddess
who that was where we get the word mint from and money do you know moneta is where we get the word
money from and it used to be back in the day that you would take some you know semi-precious metal
to the to the temple and the priests would mark it and then that became more valuable why did it
become more valuable so there's another interesting story there was a tribe i can't remember where it
was but they they they valued whale whale teeth and there was a story that some english or i don't
know some explorers came upon these tribes people on the beach and they had some gold coins that had
washed up on the shore and they were throwing them into the water and skimming them off the surface
because they didn't perceive that the gold coins had value because they knew that the whale's teeth
had value and it's all about the psychology of um it this was this marked a leap forward in our
consciousness where you could say a thing that isn't present can have a representation of a value
a thing can have a representation of a value that isn't present so we are now trading in paper money
right which isn't even backed by anything it used to be backed it used to be credit notes so in
england you have a sterling 10 pound sterling you go into the to the bank and you get 10 pounds of
sterling silver but you can't do that anymore you just get another 10 pound credit note
and that's an interesting word as well credit it means belief it means belief so we have a
credit system which is a belief system they're even telling us in their own language you know
but it means belief where's that derived from it's derived from latin and it's also an irish
cred of really it's derived from latin yeah if you look it up on etym online.com which is a website
i use quite a bit what's it what's it called the website etym online so it's etym online
short for etymology i guess yes.com okay and type in credit and you tell me what it says
hang on uh let's do this right now etimonline.com
that's it there don't know if you can see that i've got it now and i'm typing in credit
oh look it has magic symbols on there hang on 1540s belief faith from french credit belief trust
from italian credito from latin creditum a lone thing entrusted to another oh yeah yeah yeah
um yeah so credit is belief and we have a belief system and that's that's what it is you know and
there's no two ways there's no other way of looking at it and i feel like i i have a universal
theory to explain all of reality and it comes down to belief and imagination because we've
anything that's man-made was was conjured into existence through the mind so noah yuval harari
who wrote the book sapiens he talks about it wasn't language that made us what we are it was
the ability to believe in fictions it was the ability to say the great rain god in the sky
needs to be propitiated and so we will all work together to propitiate this great rain god in the
sky um so that's just an interesting um an interesting observation and um where was i
going with that uh yeah i think you're going to tie it back into law and it will be in a belief
system um oh yes so so yeah i spoke about uh the credit system and symbolic value and in the last
chapter i wrote about bitcoin and how can bitcoin establish itself as a in the minds of the people
real money and i said it should adopt the rituals and symbols of what has come before it
So you know the way we have the B with the two lines going through it?
That's a symbol for Bitcoin.
But it's not a symbol on Bitcoin.
It's just a symbol that represents Bitcoin.
And so I think that the intangible nature of Bitcoin,
that you can't see, feel, or touch it,
you can't go and buy a loaf of bread with it, right?
That could be addressed by following what has happened in the past.
so this brings up an interesting point where people would be they push back and say let's
just go back to a gold standard let's go back to barter but i think what you're trying to say is
you don't go back and do the same thing over like you you learn from history and the way i see
bitcoin now is like you know is an invention is it a discovery who knows right that's a separate
thing but it's here now and more and more of us are believing it to be a much fairer form of money
like the hardest soundest form of money we could possibly have stumbled across and we as a species
are evolving it's not a revolution in my eyes it's an evolution we are we are evolving onto
a newer, better form of money, which the implications of are huge.
You know, if you can get the foundation right of money, because money touches absolutely
50% of every transaction, as we know, that touches absolutely everything.
And that will change and shape every system that is built upon it, including the legal
system i won't use lawful the legal system including health including social security
including all of this stuff uh but that doesn't happen very quickly um
i know i was riffing on that is that how how did you come to find Bitcoin then Because here we are an hour and 20 minutes into a Bitcoin podcast
That's interesting that you asked me that because I heard about Bitcoin years
ago on that website,
and I didn't even know what it was.
I just,
so you're going to,
you're going to laugh when I tell you this,
somebody put up a post saying like maybe we should buy this bitcoin it's only 20 cent
and like i'm kicking myself that that post exists and i never bought it at 20 cent because even a
10 are at 20 cents like even if about 10 euros worth of bitcoin at 20 cent that would be worth
a lot of money now wouldn't it uh if you could hold it this long so and but how i was introduced
used to this is what they said to me because we used to meet up every sunday somebody said to me
do you know there's a second internet and it's has their own they'll have their own money on it
i was like what do you know i just i just couldn't get my head around it i know now that they were
talking about the dark now and i know that they were talking about bitcoin but how i came into it
It was probably around, in about, when was it, 2016?
We had a, no, it wasn't.
It was 2015.
Yes.
We had a conference in Prague,
and apparently Nipolis was hosting one of the events.
I'm trying to think, do they have any exposure to it before that?
I think that was the first one because you couldn't buy anything in the in the Paralini
Polis except you pay with Bitcoin and they had an ATM there so they were showing us how to get
the app on the phone I think it was actually there because I just had the mycelium app
and and so that's when I first came aware of it and how to use it and how easy it was to use and
so on and so forth now um the thing is i just removed that app off my phone yesterday actually
but you can see how much that coffee would cost today in bitcoin it's like it's crazy
because i think it was about like sub 500 or something at the time i'm not too sure actually
what it was so did the mind virus kind of start setting into you then because obviously you'd been
down the fiat currency rabbit hole you you knew everything about usury credit system uh the federal
reserve the bank of england i'm sure the formation uh william of orange and all of this kind of stuff
yeah um so when bitcoin presented itself was it like you know the night of a thousand epithelies
again like that's kind of like how it all i remember i would wake up in the middle of night
3am like laser eyes on i'm like oh my god that means this and this and this and this and this
yeah um i don't know if i would describe it as the night of a thousand epiphanies
it was kind of more gradual i think but i just got it from the start i just understood what it
was and i understood what all the things that bitcoin could fix in the world you know and
but I wasn't heavily invested in it at the time yeah yeah it's um I'll doff my cap towards John
Ballas here I had him on the podcast I think back in 2020 and uh he said you know got this t-shirt
on you see the blockchain here uh he said uh you know bitcoin is the existential heartbeat of truth
and that just stuck with me and it will forever because it's like yeah like tick tock next block
every 10 minutes there's just another block of pure truth in there there's nothing in there
that has not happened and cannot be verified and cannot be uh reversed complete contrary
to everything we've ever known with the financial system to which we've been subjected to
yeah yeah
um
yeah and
do we have time to talk about
the time I was in court
yes please absolutely
so
this was this happened
so you were summoned how did it
feel when you
um
so I was never in trouble with the law
before Tir Nassir
but then I was like I was kind of I feel like I attracted this trouble to myself you know
and just because I was ready for it at the time and we were sitting on the grass in the park
on the grass in the park that has wardens and stuff like that and the wardens came down and
told us to get off the grass so I'm telling you this because we weren't smoking we weren't drinking
we weren't causing a disturbance of the peace, let's say.
And the wardens in Ireland, the park wardens,
they kind of have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.
I think they think they're the guardie, they're police, but they're not.
And they said, get up or you'll know all about it.
And I said to my friends, they said, get up or you'll know all about it.
They were threatening us.
Yeah, it was a threat.
Direct threat from an anonymous bureaucrat in a uniform.
Exactly, exactly.
and so they rang the guards the police when i say the guards i mean the police
and i turned to my friend and i said that's a threat man you need to ring the police as well
and so he rang the police and then two two squad cars zoomed into the park
and and this is all on youtube by the way right maybe i'll send you a clip after the video after
um one thing led to another i was reefed off the ground i was i was the only one that was picked up
even though there was a few other people there i was i was reefed off the ground i was put into the
back of the squad car and i i had i already knew the guard of oath so i was sitting in the back of
the car and i was like they were calling me names and all they were trying to make me feel like i
was small and I was like I swear to uphold the duties of Angarda Shia Kana with integrity with
due diligence for the law with impartiality you know and they just they just went quiet then after
that and I think that the guy who arrested me like he was a younger guard and I think that he
he realized very quickly that he had bitten off more than he could chew and
so I was in I was in a cell they wanted my name and my address and I refused to give it to them
and then they said well what's going to happen to me if I don't they then they put a bail bond in
front of me and they said you need to sign this or we're not letting you I said what are you going
to do if I don't sign it well you're going back into the cell and we're not going to let you out
until Monday morning we're going to bring you to the court and you're going to say it to the judge
and I was like okay I better sign it then because that's it that's a direct threat and I don't want
to be threatened I don't want to be have all these bad things happening to me so this is really
important just for your listeners if you find yourself in this situation you can ask the
question what will happen to me if I don't sign this and invariably they're going to give you a
threat okay and then what I did was okay I'm going to sign it and I started to write the words under
duress where I was going to sign it.
But the thing is, the bandguard, the female police woman, she took the pen off me and
she put it down on the page like flat.
No, you have to just write it.
You have to just sign it.
Just sign your name, sign your name.
Even though you could see I kind of tried to write under duress.
So I signed my name through it.
And this picture is floating around on the Internet as well.
How old were you at this stage?
Had you already gone through your master's degree?
No
I hadn't even studied law
Wow, okay
But you still had this kind of knowledge
Yeah
From the night of a thousand epiphanies
When I was going into court
I didn't know any of this stuff worked
It was a gamble
And
So I wrote under duress and that's going to be important later, but I wrote under duress and I signed it.
So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not bound by that contract anymore because I wrote under duress.
If I was to go to court and challenge it, I would see that it wouldn't be held up because I signed it under duress.
Anyway, I was in court then a couple of days later and I didn't sit down.
I just stood up.
because when you sit down and they say all rise
you stand up, you're giving consent
to your actions
you're acquiescing to the authority of the court
everything's a trick
I know
and that's why they do it
because ignorance of the law is no
excuse though, Daniel
you can't say I didn't know
because that's not an excuse
so they made that law up as well
well, they made that saying up
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
So you go in, you don't sit down, so you just stand.
I just stand.
Now, I had three charges, and they were just,
it was like something that they could just make up.
It was something like using language that could occasion a breach of the peace,
refusing to move when you were instructed by a member of Angarda Shia Kana,
and failure to give name and address when requested.
That was it.
Just nonsense.
But the thing is, you can only ask for it. You can only the police only have the authority to demand your name and address when you've actually committed a crime.
And I don't believe I committed a crime that hasn't been proven yet to commit a crime.
There has to be a victim. Am I wrong there as well?
Well, the crime is actually against society as a whole.
So legislation is considered criminal law.
This is what I learned when I eventually went to university.
when people are saying natural law, positive law.
I mean, it's all criminal law and civil law.
It's all kind of like under the same umbrella.
But all statutes are considered criminal law
because they're against society as a whole.
Civil law is between two individuals.
So whenever the state is stepping in, it's a criminal matter.
what was I going to say
you just listed the charges
so you stood up in court
you've just been given those three nonsensical charges
well that didn't happen in court
but I knew what I was in for
and they called my name out
and I said are you talking to me
so I'm creating
the separation between
me the flesh and blood man
and the entity that they had on the table up there.
Did they use your full name or Mr. Flanagan?
Well, they did both, actually.
Right.
They...
Kevin Flanagan, John Garda, whatever his name was,
I won't say on the podcast, stepped forward.
And I said, are you talking to me?
So I'm not creating the join there.
If I just walked up without saying that,
they would assume that I was the entity that they were calling.
You with me?
so the judge the judge looked up at that point and said to the clerk there's always a bit of
drama in the district court right sit down sit down we'll call you later they said let's put
this back let's put this back so they called me a second time and i said are you talking to me
and then the guarda at the police officer not the arresting one but another one he looked he
He was standing in front of the judge and he looked at me and he goes, do you think you're Kevin Flanagan?
Do you think you're Kevin Flanagan?
And I said, allegedly, but the court may call me, address me as Kevin today.
And that was that this is like all words play.
It's all word play.
And I'm just avoiding the contract.
I'm not agreeing to anything.
I'm just asking them questions.
So if you just said yes, you'd have agreed at that point and you're trapped.
Oh, yeah.
well, we were being like implied.
The court would have been able to assume
that I was Kevin Flanagan because I said,
yeah, I think I'm Kevin Flanagan,
but I don't know what they're talking about,
what they're thinking of in their mind
when they ask me,
do you think you're Kevin Flanagan?
Because they're basically saying,
do you think you're this entity?
Are you this corporation?
Are you willing to accept liability
for this corporation?
So, oh yeah,
I should have said I had a big Bible under my arm and I had long hair at the
time.
So it was tied back in like a warrior style.
And I was wearing a suit,
you know,
I was like,
look the part.
And what was the significance of having the Bible?
Well,
that's the law.
That's the law.
Any particular Bible?
Like,
it was a church Bible.
I don't know.
Right.
Okay.
It was like a Catholic,
a Catholic Bible.
Okay.
Right.
but it was huge
and I got it off
my girlfriend's mother
who I told her was very religious
sorry
I was walking in with the Bible under my arm
and like just like
and then I walked up to the bench
when I eventually got up to the bench
it was the third time they called me up
I think it was the last case of the morning
something like that
and I eventually now I'm at the bench
and I said
they asked me to swear on the bible or something like that and i said i'm a man of god standing in
the kingdom of god and i request to address this court yeah and then one thing led to another
and the judge actually got up and left the court now at this time there was about the only people
were in the court were like 20 of my friends right from tierna syr and the clerk got up and walked in
to the back room and the guard is across from me and he's in the corner like this
he's in the corner like this and i was like john that was the arresting officer yeah yeah right
johnny all right there and he's like yeah yeah that was the best moment actually i love just
having that sort of like i'm the boss here right and people need to understand that like that you
know it is your court right it is your court well you're a sovereign and you're entering the court
of another sovereign right the judge represents the crown or you know they take silk which is
symbolic of taking the ground of the of the uh you know you don't hear that so barristers they
do a thing called deviling and when they're finished their deviling they take the silk which
is literally what they call the idea of like becoming a barrister deviling what was that
it's when you are um um in apprentice mode and you're following a senior barrister and they're
teaching you i know it's crazy called the deviling it's called deviling yeah i mean they don't even
hide it no it's it doesn't get much more satanic and ritualistic than and just on that note right
the the barristers wear these big black capes yeah these black robes and on the back pocket
on their shoulder they have a pocket that's where you used to put the money to see how much law you're
gonna get and they take it out and they'd look and then there was they would argue your case based
on how much money you put in their pocket so when we say like the the whole legal system is corrupt
we're right of course yeah of course and i mean you can go even further than that and just look
at the judges that are given the judgments to people who hurt children and they get very small
sentences whereas you say something wrong in england and you get a longer sentence than a
person who hurts a child so and and don't get me started on the fact that the current sitting
prime minister was head of child protection services as a lawyer overseeing the jimmy savile
case yeah of course i mean did you see the picture of him when he was a kid yeah several
yeah groomed yeah exactly so anyway we're kind of off the top yes get get back to so now you've
you've you're now looking at the the arresting officer who's realized some shit is about to go
very sideways and
I think he already
realised it because actually I didn't
say this to you but when I
came into the court I walked up to the guard
and he was sitting there with a female
guard rubbing his back telling him it's going to
be okay and I was like
John that's for you and I handed him my paperwork
which was my affidavit
you know
that's for you John and I don't
call him guard I don't call him
by his full name I just say John that's for you
because you are addressing him as a man exactly yeah a living man a living man exactly you are not
pc davies you are john no i mean he lost that he lost that respect when he arrested me without
cause like i don't see him as a guard anymore i see him just as a man and that he's going to be
held responsible as a man not as it not behind his badge so so i think that he already knew that it
was it was going to be bad because he i sent him the notices before i got to the court and anyway
the judge gets up and he leaves the bench the cop is across the way and i'm like you're right
there john and he's like yeah yeah yeah i'm fine and then there was a guard standing in front of
him and he was looking at me like i had two heads he's just like what the fuck are you you know
and then the clerk came back out and the clerk interestingly is a cleric it's a cleric that's
why we call it a clerk um and he says this court is now in camera so everybody except for the
interested parties needs to leave this court and i said is that an order or a request
and the clerk so in in camera let's just clear that up okay so in camera is a word that they use
for private like this court is only open to the interested party so family court would be in
camera is in camera one word but uh it's i n yeah it's two words in camera like like the camera you
take pictures with right okay never heard that all right okay yeah so they said this court is in
camera everybody needs to leave the court and i said is that an order or a request
and the clerk looked at me out of the corner of his eye because they never make eye contact with
you because you're a thing in their eyes right you're not a real human being and he looked at
me in the corner of his eye he goes it's a judge's order and i said oh there you go lads give him a
bill because whoever gives an order is liable to take a bill that's what you do in a restaurant
you give an order you get a bill upon performance so and this is in the bill of exchange act 1882
whoever gives an order is liable to accept the bill and i never said this to you before this word
of silence is agreement so one of my friends in the audience and in the crowd said and it is an
audience really it's a public gallery it's a it's a show and one of my friends said under the bill
of exchange act 1882 whoever gives an order is liable to take a bill and my other friend said
do you understand that oh and the court was silent so what did the judge have to do
the judge had to come back out where all the people still sitting there and and continue the case
why because he doesn't have any power except for what we give to him through his threats through
the gravitas through the force of his words for everything we do in court we agree to
how did it end well um there was there was there was two more court dates but how did this day end
right so it doesn't end there oh crap no you've got to go back i got to go back and so what i did
us it was like two weeks between this date and the next date i was held in contempt in this court
because i don't know i can't remember exactly what the reason was but if you oh no if you listen to
it he says if you interrupt me again mr flanagan i'm gonna hold you in contempt and i said don't
call me mr flanagan in the middle of what he was saying he goes very good contempt what happened
there you interrupted him and he made an offer of contract if you do x i will do y i did x and
you accepted the contract i accepted the contract by your actions yeah so in retrospect what would
you you wouldn't have said anything until you'd finished the sentence in retrospect i do i would
have done things a bit differently i would have understood that it's a court and you're supposed
to take turns.
Right, okay.
Like a tennis court.
So I've just found in camera
in Black's Law Dictionary here,
in chambers, in private,
a cause is said to be heard in camera
either when the hearing is had before the judge,
when the hearing is had before the judge
in his private chambers
or when all spectators are excluded
from the courtroom.
Man.
Yeah.
Because they didn't want the audience
to see us going off script absolutely just going off script because that's not what's supposed to
happen no that's everybody has their roles you have the defendant you have the plaintiff you
have the lawyers you have the judge you have the clerk you have the the transcriber and they all
have their set roles bread and circuses off the script they don't know how to deal with that
bread and circuses isn it it just in theater exactly and so but you can you can watch the theater up until like you can it like you know cut the transmission exactly exactly yes yes
and this this happened later in the day so i was held in contempt i was in there for about
an hour or maybe more and they took my shoelaces off they took my belt off they took my bible away
and so they were checking
every so often and I'd hear
so I sat in my cell
on this concrete bed
and I just meditated
and I was listening
you know and when I heard the hatch opening
in the door I just looked
I could see the eyes going
I'm locking it up again
you know I was just trying to get into their heads
because they're all probably thinking like
what is this guy?
like who is this guy how does he know what he knows and why is he why is he still this far into
it why hasn't the judge brought out the mental health act because they have the power to do that
but he didn't do it he didn't do it and so when i was going back into the court who was carrying me
in who was bringing me in but the arresting officer right and another officer as well
and they had i had the handcuffs on and uh i was like where's my bible i'm not going back into the
court without my bible and he was like please the arresting officer was like please don't make this
difficult for me like please let's go into the back into the court come on don't don't be making
a big deal and i just like i felt sorry for him i was like okay fine whatever and so i'm sitting
in the court and it was like it's like i was outside the principal's office you know in school
because i had my my shirt was open and the my tie was off and but in the back of the back of the
court there was a bunch of school kids taking notes with their teacher right they're there to
observe the court and i was called the very last case of the day the very very last case of the day
and so when my case was being called the sergeant went down and asked the teacher
to leave with the school kids wow yeah they didn't want the teacher to see or the school kids to see
how i was performing what i was doing and so the judge said you seem to be a relatively
intelligent young man Mr Flanagan but I would advise you to be very careful about what happens
next which I don't know what to make of that and he said in light of the difficulty that you've had
this morning they not not consenting the contempt and so on I'm prepared to remand your case for a
period of two weeks very good did you hear that he offered he made me an offer of contract and he
gave me some time to respond a couple a couple of milliseconds yeah and he went very good and he was
about to start writing on his paper now i should backtrack a bit he said you're here to enter a plea
guilty or not guilty and i said am i not presumed innocent right
and he's just like falling over his words no you're you have two pleas that are open to you
today and I'm not in a position to advise from the bench so guilty or not guilty and I said but
if I enter a plea have I entered into a contract he said I'm not in a position to give you advice
from the bench I would advise to get a lawyer and in light of the difficulty that you had earlier
today I'm going to remand your case for two weeks very good and I said I do not accept that he goes
He did not accept that.
And then I ripped out this magical spell.
I said, I waive the benefits and I release the court of its duty to perform as consideration.
And his face, he went like, oh, good move.
He didn't say good move, but I could see it in his eye.
He was just like, this guy, like, what the heck?
Who is this man?
And how does he know these things?
because let me break down what I just said there.
The courts exist to provide a service to the citizenry.
It's basically like going to confession.
You confess your sins.
They give you a penance.
You do your penance.
What I was saying is I waive the benefit.
I don't need your service,
but I'm going to offer you another contract.
And in that contract,
I'm releasing you of your duty to perform as consideration
because all contracts need to have consideration, right?
and it was just like a solid,
it was a solid,
it was a solid rejection of his offer
with a counteroffer.
With a counteroffer, exactly.
You are offering him a contract.
A way out of it, essentially a way out of it.
And he said,
I'm remanding your case for a period of two weeks,
your comment notwithstanding.
I didn't know what notwithstanding meant at the time.
Now I know it means anyway,
or in spite of what you just said.
And there's a concept in contract law called the last shot doctrine.
And this comes back to what we were saying before about magic, you know, that the two lawyers, they have their wands and they're conjuring their beasts.
It's the last shot that wins. Right.
And so he said, I'm reminding you're free to go for a period of two weeks.
And I was like, so I'm free to go. You're free to go for a period of two weeks.
I'm free to go. And he was like over the bench as I was walking out the door.
you're free to go for a period of two weeks so that was that and uh i was with all my friends
and we were walking around the front of the court and who walks out but the judge he walks past us
and that was that so what did i do next i wrote a letter to the judge because i'm like what am i
gonna do i can't not show up because i did uh were you getting any advice to how to handle this were
you just riffing all of this by yourself well no i had i had been learning it you know i had been
studying it and that
night of a thousand epiphanies
all clicked in my head. I just
knew, I suspected this
is the way the law worked and this day
I would say I learned more about law
in that day than I did in three
years of university.
I should say
as well there was a lawyer, when the judge
got up and left I actually walked out of the court
and the lawyer came up to me and says go back
in there, go back in there, that's a trap.
Which I
I don't know if it was or it wasn't, but that same lawyer was outside the court the second day.
Now, what happened in the meantime was I had two weeks.
So I sent them a judge to judge a letter saying, I've reconsidered your invitation to attend your place of business.
And I'd like to accept.
However, here's my fee schedule.
300 euro per hour if for just for attending and 3000 euro per hour if I'm incarcerated or otherwise detained.
Right.
So the lawyer was outside and he was talking to me and he's like, oh, I remember being young once and being ideological.
And, you know, and I was just kind of like.
You know, like don't patronize me, you know what I mean?
And I just said to him, well, I sent me I sent a judge my fee schedule and he went, very good, very good.
He didn't say you can't. He didn't say there's any laws precluding you from doing that.
I sent that judge my fee schedule and he knew what it was the lawyer knew what it was
and so that second time I was in the court and I was called out immediately so it wasn't I wasn't
even in there five five or ten minutes you know the clerk came out the judge came out and my name
was called before the judge even had his ass in the chair and I went up and I had I had a few
weeks to prepare now right i had like two weeks to prepare and i was doing all this spider chart
if they say this and they say that and what i wanted to do that time was get it into being
in camera because that would be a chance for me to look at the guard in the eye and go look can
we just shake on it and leave it at that though that would be a manly way to deal with it you know
um but the judge was having none of it he's like you're here to answer a plea and your plea is
guilty or not guilty and i was like but like how can i answer a plea if i don't know the facts of
the case like it was not okay we're manding your case for six weeks and i was out so it was very
quick i wrote the judge a letter and it's like afterwards it's like i'm gonna waive the
the appearance fee the 300 exactly exactly because sometimes you have to pick
your battles you know uh but they gave me six weeks then till the next case
which is three periods of two weeks which gives me three
to send three notices with two weeks of um a response so i sent the first notice saying look
this is what i claim has happened if anything i'm the victim here and but you have you have two weeks
to rebut this and i sent it to the cop and i sent it to the attorney general and all these like
important people and you're doing all of this registered mail as well i'm sure mail yeah okay
and so yeah and what was the notice notice of um i think it was uh just notice right which which
means like know this oh of course notice right okay know this you know take notice and so each
notice carries 14 days uh and if no response you can follow up again right okay that's exactly it
Yeah, so 14 days passed.
And then another 14 days, I said, I've given you a final chance.
And if you don't respond to this, this is what I am accepting is the truth.
And an unreborted affidavit stands as truth in commerce, in law.
And so here's what you're going to leave me with the understanding of.
I said, there is no crime.
There is no case to be called.
So you're going to instruct your judge.
You're going to instruct the cop not to call the case.
And I'm not going to be there on the date that you've given me to be in court.
I'm just not going to turn up because I've already established through my affidavits.
And what's an affidavit?
It's a written form of testimony, which is the equivalent of what you do in the box when you put your hand on the Bible and you say, here's what happened to me.
It's the equivalent of that.
And I said, I'm not going to be in the court at all.
And so I'm a man of my word.
So I didn't go to the court.
But I went to a bar down the road and I sent my friends in with my paperwork.
And they said that they tried to give it into the court.
My name was on the list on the door.
it was a different judge now
and the cop didn't show up either
they tried to give my paperwork into the court
and the file wasn't there
it wasn't even in the court
so after that they came and joined me in the pub
they were there for the whole day
they came at around half four
they joined me in the bar
and we had to celebrate three point
because it was like I had beaten the system
but that bail bond came to bite me in the ass
the bail bond came to bite me in the ass because it was sent to swords which was my local guarda
station at the time and i got a phone call one day from the warrant officer there and it's like
i have a bench warrant for your arrest and i was like hold on a second do you even know what you're
what you're dealing with here like have you are you are you fully are you under full understanding
of the fact of the case do you understand that you could be personally liable where's your office
I'm coming down to see you
he was like what
because he's usually chasing
people you know so
one thing led to another and look it was months and months went by and I lost I lost a bit of my fight Do you know what I mean I just kind of I just ended up submitting to the process
Even though I knew I didn't, even though I knew I was in the right, I just didn't have the energy to fight it anymore.
Because they wore me down, you know, and it was just me doing it by myself.
so
on the day after my birthday
the following year
so that was like
at the end of
I don't know what year it was
but
the day after my birthday
15th of August
very early in the morning
Mariah Van
and two squad cars
knocked at the door
and
my
girlfriend's mother
came into the room
she was also an Irish speaker
and she said
which means the police are at the door
and I just got up
and I just like
I just kind of surrendered
you know
I didn't even pick up my tobacco
when I was walking out
I used to smoke
heavily
and
I remember sitting in
Mount Joy prison cell
I was supposed to be there for three days
but I was only there for one day
because they don't have the facilities
or the beds or whatever, they're overcrowded.
And I remember sitting there thinking like,
we don't have a justice system.
We have a legal system and that's a very different thing.
And then from then on,
I was determined to learn about the legal system,
learn about the statutes,
learn about the Criminal Justice Act,
learn about the case law as well.
Because case law is common law.
Case law is common law.
Common law is the collected judgment of the judges,
which form precedent.
And that's what common law is.
So that's why in like all the TV dramas that you watch,
they will, you know, rattle off.
Oh, in case number 634, 1971, Richards versus Dawkins, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
Okay.
So that's why case law is studied.
That's common law.
Right.
Okay.
And so it was at that point where I decided, well, I think I was already in.
I think I'd already started my degree.
But I just remember thinking to myself, we don't have a justice system.
If we did have a justice system, I wouldn't be sitting in a jail cell right now.
And overcrowded one with other people that have done absolutely nothing wrong.
Exactly. There's three other lads in there.
and they were in for like drunken disorderly most of them and you know uh i wouldn't say they're
innocent but i was certainly innocent because i hadn't done anything wrong at least that's what i
thought and then i realized that we don't have a justice system we have a legal system and that's
a very different thing and so i determined to i was determined then to learn the legal the legalities
because I see now, I see the system like computer program
and the laws are the programs that generate all of the activities
that are happening in that system.
And for that reason, I wanted to learn how to hack the system.
How do you hack the system?
So I never wanted to be a solicitor.
That was never my dream or a barrister
because I knew what the industry, how it worked.
And I would...
And look at the word solicitor.
Yes.
They solicit business, right?
And the crime of solicitation is essentially prostitution.
Yep.
Yeah.
So, sorry, any solicitors that are listening,
but think about what you're doing.
Well, I used to say that attorneys and solicitors,
they're like lubricant,
because you're going to get fucked either way,
but they just make it a little bit easier.
so um that's the story of of my running with the court and so how do you have you figured out how
to hack it is this something i yeah if again you were ever to be picked up for whatever littering
loitering whatever charge they want to throw at somebody um yeah is that still happening in in
ireland is there still a lot of this kind of real low level grade nonsense people yeah i mean
it depends on like who you're talking about because i don't want to get into too much politics here
well just because like you know i'm sure you've seen what's going on in the uk at the moment
people i don't know whether it's actually happening or if it's you know social media
and mainstream media are used to amplify like the edge cases to make examples out of people.
Like there's this young lad called Montgomery Toms that was arrested recently for having a placard at a rally,
you know, freedom of speech laws.
But he was arrested because it could be construed as hateful speech or something.
Yeah.
It's a thought crime.
And it was a bit like the three pieces of legislation that were brought up against me that I was responding to using language that could occasion a breach of the peace.
But it didn't say you breached the peace.
It could be perceived that you would be.
It's minority reportship, right?
You know, trying to get ahead of the crime before it happens.
And in your case, it was, oh, he might say something that might disturb the peace and offend that lady 400 metres away with her child in the playground that possibly or might possibly not hear what he said, depending on the direction of the wind.
It's just complete nonsense.
Yeah.
But the thing is, this is what I said in my affidavit, that if any peace was disturbed, I was sitting in the park enjoying the sunshine with my friends when three big guys came over to me and said they threatened.
I felt I felt threatened by their presence and so they disturbed the peace if anything I'm the victim here you know so yeah what would I do now it depends on the circumstances I don't think I don't think I would ever get into trouble with this state ever again because I like to think I'm a bit more careful now and and I have a feeling that they have a couple of notes
on the system about me
I'd imagine so
yeah because I was picked up
in my friend's car
because she didn't have tax and insurance
a few months later
I don't know following October
or something like that
and
the
the detectives
were very interested in asking the girls
questions about me who am I
and
I was strip searched
and
I
think they did it just to kind of demoralise me
because they were putting on the gloves
and I don't know
I think one of the lads was enjoying it a little bit
too much because he had these big eyes
and I was like
don't shove your finger with me hole
but they didn't
they didn't do that
but I was just acting up a little bit
you know what I mean
they took my shoes off and I didn't have socks on
because I had been camping that weekend
and
they found 10 of seer cards in my
wallet and I said I don't
know anything about that somebody paid me to hand them out
but here's the thing when I was leaving
that state oh no the detective the
sergeant of the station opened
the door and goes you were in court
last September
and you failed to recognise the court
and I was like how does he know that
because I didn't give them anything at this stage.
Yeah, I don't know how we knew that,
but the detectives from Dalbrigan came down
and they opened the door and they looked at me
and they said, well, how come we don't know yet?
I said, because I don't get in trouble with the law.
You know, I don't typically get in trouble with the law.
So when I was leaving,
I also had these old pound banknotes,
which were leaflets,
and all the information on the back about,
I don't know
New World Order
and that sort of thing
but the banking system
is fraudulent
so I was
putting my stuff on
they were letting me go
and I was putting my stuff on
and
I was telling them
this was years ago
but I was saying to them
like you know
there's going to come a time
where you people
are going to have to make
a decision
which side you stand on
and
you can stand with the people
or you can stand with the government
who really don't care about you
I said
they're not even letting you go
on strike because there was a bit of a thing at the time the guards wanted to go on strike
and i said uh the guy one of the cops says there's three of them standing there and they're all like
they're all very interested in what i had to say um one cop said actually we're still having
gotten over the last revolution and i said exactly so you have to like think about that and then
i told him that he could hang on to the pound now
you can have all you can hang on to that i have plenty of them and then when when i was leaving
they were saying i will never forget you now we'll never forget you and i said no you're gonna
forget me you're gonna forget me and i'm walking you're gonna forget me um so i i think that they
definitely know who i am um now i haven't been in ireland for nine years nine out of the last 10
years um but i'm back now and uh there was another time when i was coming back from a rave in the
woods which i don't go to often but my mate is involved in that scene and he's also doing stuff
like this so he has he has previous as well um and so we were followed by a squad car because
the guards came in the next day the police came in the next day and shut down the party
and then everybody left
and as we were leaving
we may have said
oh there's a squad car
following us
and we were pulled over
now
I had a little
nod of hash
in my pocket
in a little lighter pocket
there in my jeans
squeegee hash
and
the band guard
there was a female guard
got out
and she wouldn't search us
probably because
we were two lads
but she called
the drug squad
down to search us
and this man searched me and he took out the piece of hash from my pocket and he looked at it
and goes what's that bit of chewing gum and he handed it back to me he handed it back to me
and then as we were as we were driving off as they were letting us go they were like so you're
happy enough lads with everything we've done like no you're no complaints and they were checking
with us where we where we satisfied with how they treated us which is very odd i find but i can only
imagine what it must have been like for them for the guards to to put both of our names into the
system and see the two of us who we probably don we probably wouldn have had much reason to be together we wouldn have been caught together in the past and they like oh gosh just these two lads and it probably no like don don don deal with these or deal
with them respectfully you know because because they probably know who we are yeah um so how would
I deal with it today I deal with it as a lawyer would and I tell I've often told people like you
have to pick your battles just pay the fine you know don't try and don't try and challenge the fine
and if you're asking me how to do it then you're not ready you should know in yourself
that you're sovereign and how would you handle yourself as a sovereign and now if it's really
serious like um like a high court case or something like that i might give them a little bit of advice
but I think for the most part
I would just, I deal with it as a lawyer would
which means I would try to find technicalities
on the law, the legislation
and counter legislation and so on
things like that
but thankfully I haven't had a lot of
run-ins with the cops lately
Yeah, well good mate
and I'm sure most people listening
wouldn't have it's just these weird edge cases that that might show up every now and then and
the big thing that is picking up steam in the uk at the moment um is like the council tax even
normies are picking up on because because i just see it going up and up and up and up and services
going down and down and down and the quality of the infrastructure going and so they're just like
wait a minute what am i paying for and i don't actually realize like you know the the depths of
the deception um so things are coming to a head uh i don't know where that ends and if we can start
you know abolishing these these overreaches um but certainly conversations like this podcasts
interviews what you do um on your your own channel do you want to tell people where they can
can find your channel and uh you know get more information yes um so the the channel that i'm
about to uh mention i don't talk about any of this stuff on that channel um i talk about breton law
which we didn't actually get into but that's okay maybe i'll come back another time and we can
explore the breton law yeah and so breton academy is my youtube channel my facebook page my x account
my instagram if you type breton academy into a search engine you're bound to find me that way
i guess if you want to go and look at my older videos you can go to tir nasir on youtube that's
t-i-r-n-a-s-a-o-r and there's a couple of good videos up there i would recommend if people want
to hear more about this magic and the law i would recommend looking for the video called
magic spells the state and you
yes because that's in two parts and it kind of
it's it's been there since about 11 years and the comments on it are amazing
um like the comments are very like my mind is blown i'll never look at this this system in the
same way again right it's that it's that level of a profound change i i would say um and that's
probably the video that i'm most proud of actually even though it was 11 years ago um where else can
you oh you can email me if you want that kev at breton academy.org visit my website breton academy.org
and i think that's it yeah so we just just to leave the listeners on a on a practice you know
with some practical notes um should they consider uh writing that that let those letters you know
the claim of facts of dominion whatever it's called i don't i'm not in a position to give
legal advice yeah no absolutely not uh just do your own research right that that's all it comes
down to because like um dipping in and out of this sovereign project kind of truther movement
uh for want of a better word i've met a lot of people over the last uh two weeks not a lot a
handful of people um quick plug there's there's a place just outside of uh swindon um a dairy
called dora's dairy anyone can go and look that up and you can order raw milk and grass-fed beef
from him and pay in bitcoin uh now he's not a bitcoiner per se but he's got bitcoiner customers
who have managed to convince him,
I just want to pay you in Bitcoin for my milk
and for my dairy products and for my beef
and for my raw honey and all this kind of stuff.
So we were staying there on holiday just close by
and we would go and stack it up with some supplies.
Great burgers, great milk, beautiful honey,
raw milk ice cream, all this kind of good stuff.
And I'd always get chatting to whoever was in the shed.
What brings you here?
Oh, the raw milk.
Oh, what do you need raw milk for?
I've got this health issue and I believe this and blah, blah, blah.
And you get a whole cast of different people.
Yeah.
And you get into the geoengineering and the chemtrails and, you know, the pasteurization of milk and all of it.
The Federal Reserve, the money.
And they would always stumble at Bitcoin.
Why are you here?
I'm like that sticker in the shed.
what bitcoin i'm like yeah i've come here to spend bitcoin to to show true value uh to express true
value to to john and his products i'm not going to use uh uh a debt instrument
that i i find that almost repulsive to be honest like you know to he he has raised these cows and
i'm going to come and give him a debt instrument to to express the value that no i'm going to give
him the hardest sound is money that's ever been discovered by man and how does that work so you'd
get into these conversations but i do find that um they people when they come when they bump up
against this and i'm probably guilty of it as well it's like just give me the template just give me
the template and i'll follow the template and then i will be you know i'll be able to do because we
are taught this way we're taught things are systematic that's the education system that's
what it does to you uh whereas it isn't and no case is ever going to be the same we've got people
listening to this conversation from all around the world from completely different ages uh with
completely different backgrounds and completely different futures ahead of them there is no
template for this stuff it's a hell of a lot of introspection deep research trying to get to the
bottom of it going uh you know there there are courses that there are youtube channels that
people can dig into but there are charlatans out there as well that are going to sell you a template
yeah and that's why i'm a bit reluctant to tell people like give people legal advice because i
don't think this this is something that um that you need to discover and understand on yourself
and you'll find your own way to do and that's the essence of sovereignty the essence of sovereignty
is not following in another man's footsteps but by carving your own path by walking your own by
making your own you're we're shit shoulders right yeah we're shoveling the shit um and and i i believe
that every man needs to find his own path through the shit yes uh kevin we will come back and do
do more conversations here because there is so much to talk about.
I mean, we, we didn't go down the deepest of rabbit holes of, you know,
fiat currency. We didn't even really touch on Rome.
And we didn't touch on London, DC, Vatican.
There's so much to be, you know, the great fire of 1666 and then
Sanctum and all of this kind of stuff.
yeah well i'll be happy to come back on anytime right love it and yeah we've smashed through a
two-hour mark so it's good good place to leave it i look forward to uh to chatting more on this
mate and uh yeah thanks for your time thanks for your work and uh yeah let's stay in touch and get
another day in the diary yeah thanks for having me on and i really enjoyed this conversation so
Thank you.
Cheers, mate.
Take care.
Well, there you go, guys.
Thank you, Kevin, for coming on.
Yeah, it's so deep, all this stuff.
When we say in the Bitcoin space, everything is a lie,
we're not far off.
Because if you've built this whole legal system,
and Runa Ostgaard talks about this as well.
he wrote the book Fraud Coin
if you've not read that you certainly should
a thousand years of inflation as a policy
when you've
if that
a medium of exchange
is the base layer
of human existence
of us
being able to
communicate value to each other
across space and time
and without that
we have nothing.
We have no guiding star.
We have no north star.
We are completely lost.
We think we're in control,
but we are not.
Everything is completely and utterly,
totally spinning out of control
every single second of every single day
because the money is...
It's not even broken, guys.
This is the thing.
It's not broken.
It's working as designed.
is working perfectly as they designed it to work.
And that is in order to extract as much energy from you as possible.
And that's the base layer.
Layer two, arguably, is all of the legal fiction stuff
that they've built on top of it
to make us believe that we're doing illegal things,
like sitting in a park.
Like Kevin's story, sat in a park and then he ends up in this
however many years long fight for freedom in a courtroom.
It's pure insanity.
So we all need our night of a thousand epiphanies, by the sound of it.
it. I think many of us listening to this have had that with fiat currency and realize why we need
Bitcoin and what Bitcoin is. And that's our own night of a thousand epiphanies, coming to that
realization, stacking and taking self-custody, using your bitbox, getting that set up, making
sure you are in complete and utter, total sovereign control. You have a loyal title over that Bitcoin
if you have the keys.
I think Kevin might agree with me
that it's possibly the only thing
that you could truly own, right now.
People think they own their cars,
You register your car with your...
Well, in the UK it'd be the DVLA, in France it's ANTS, in the US it's...
Who do you have like that...
Everybody complains about it all the time.
The driving agency, can't remember what it's called, but whatever.
You buy a car, you register it.
You buy a house, you register it with the land authority.
And then you end up paying taxes.
And it's just an absolute nightmare.
You literally don't own a thing unless you've got Bitcoin in cold storage.
And this is the new money.
This is how important Bitcoin is.
So if you've not had the thousand epiphanies, I hope that's at least one of them.
And yeah, thanks again, Kevin, for coming on the show.
Please, like I mentioned at the beginning of the show here, there's some show sponsors that make the show possible.
Been with the show for many years.
in some cases, in the cases of Relay, Swan, Bitbox,
thank you guys for being around for so long.
PayWithFlash good friend Pierre doing great work over there They a new one and they are offering you a new service plebeian chief monkey doing great work building out a marketplace for bitcoiners to
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waiting to connect and build out this parallel economy and this new way of living and taking
control and I hope this episode has brought you you know closer to thinking more about how you know
if we've got sovereign money but we need the sovereign mindset I think I'll leave it there
Kevin loved having you on thanks for staying in touch we will do a part two
and I'll catch all you guys on the next show