Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this edition of the Once Bitten podcast.
Joining me on this episode is Asa Noha, who is one of the co-founders, collaborators,
editors-in-chief of the latest Bitcoin magazine. It is Bitcoin Art Magazine. And to quote one of
his more recent tweets, physical fucking art. I think that was the words. And I'm here for it.
It's incredible to see the amount of wonderful Bitcoin art and creativity that has crept into this space over the last decade or so.
But now we're at this point where many of the artists that have been around are just getting more and more honed and attuned to their work and getting their message across.
and we were in Manchester just recently at the Bitfest and there were a bunch of artists there.
I bumped into Rebel Money. I'm a long fan of Rebel Money and his artwork and just him,
a genuine person that he is. He's created this little figure, statue, if you like,
which is absolutely cool and he's got this dream of it becoming like an 8 to 10 foot sculpture
and full brass you know in in who knows where so he's looking for investors uh i've got the um
the guys over at uh history of bitcoin.io are at the moment as we speak in dubai for the mina
conference and they're showcasing the smash toshi book the history of bitcoin where they commissioned
128 artists from all around the world to put into art specific 128 different touch points of bitcoin
history it's an incredible book i was in new york at pub key and helping them launch that that was
the first day of the auction that's being auctioned on scarce.city so you can get over to scarce.city
and just look out for that particular project smash toshi and now you have the magazine which
these guys have put together and like this this first edition is going to be a collector's edition
if nothing else so get over to bitcoinartmagazine.com and get over to the shop and order something up
because you can pre-order now this is going to be the genesis edition you've got a picture on the
front there of a piece of work from fractal in crypt it looks absolutely beautiful uh it features
There's artists such as Adam Kadmon, Alex Schaefer, Breckyvon Bitcoin, Chief Monkey, Marcus
Connor, Maxey's Club.
I'm just reading some out.
So sorry to everybody else.
Cipher's in there.
He runs Ciphermonk House out of London in Bloomsbury.
It's so cool.
Please go and check it out.
We've got to start supporting the artists.
I know Roger 9000 recently has written a manifesto and his art obviously is music.
You have the new music nudge group or the new music economy.
We have Dion Wilson now just in New York at PubKey.
He announced he's starting Bitcoin for the arts.
So he's looking for donations, help.
He's looking to put a board of advisors together to help collect those funds and allocate those funds to Bitcoin art,
Bitcoin culture and this is really really great to see and we have more Bitcoin fiction books
coming through as well. Avi Burra has released his next in line of his series it's called July 18.
I'm a quarter of the way through it I'm loving it thoroughly loving it so this is this is happening
guys. I was really really surprised by all of the artwork and yeah inspiring very very inspiring.
Before we get into this one with Asanoja, please make sure you're stacking your Bitcoin.
Relay is a place that you can do that in Europe.
R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash Bitten.
That will save you on commissions.
Please take self-custody of your Bitcoin.
Take that very, very seriously.
Get a Bitbox.
You can get to bitbox.swiss forward slash Bitten and you'll get 5% discount.
But you will get the peace of mind that you own your Bitcoin.
you have well you are the only one with access to your bitcoin to be specific but you can only do
that if you take self-custody if you remove them from the machine from the exchange so bitbox.swiss
forward slash bitten if you want to start accepting bitcoin for your goods and services paywithflash.com
have got you covered make sure you get over to that site now and get set up so you can start
accepting Bitcoin for your goods and services.
Find your local Bitcoiners, start an event,
start a meetup, get to an event, get to a conference.
I just had a chat recently with Matteo Pellegrini.
He's the founder of Club Orange,
which used to be Orange Pill Up.
I'll be releasing that episode in a few weeks.
Lots of cool new features,
but the main feature is 19,000 Bitcoiners
around the world ready to connect with you.
Thanks always for listening, guys.
here is asanoa all right asanoa we are recording and i'm sure i've already mispronounced that name
asanoa what did you say it was uh asanoa asanoa asanoa because it's japanese it from like it's
a traditional japanese word you're explaining just then yeah it means hemp leaf in japanese
and it's a very common pattern it's actually that pattern on the wall right there that is a hybrid
my own hybrid variation of it but it's a it's a triangular tessellation and it's a very common
pattern in japan found on kimonos or items of all kinds and it's been painted around statues
of the buddha for over a thousand years okay so just a deep love of all things japan or all things
hemp like what was the both um strangely enough i've never been to japan but when i was 16 years
old i learned to roll sushi in a sushi bar in hawaii and i um i also grew a cannabis in the
Pacific Northwest of the United States. And so I think it was a combination of both of those things.
Strangely enough, I haven't smoked cannabis since I was 18 years old.
Wow. Don't get high off your own supplies, they say. I am no longer in the cannabis or hemp
industry, but I did spend a good enough amount of time in it and a good enough amount of time
behind a sushi bar and I have a fascination with sacred geometry and geometric artwork and that was
a big initial inspiration for me to start making artwork and I love the Asanoa pattern
so it just kind of fit. All right yeah as I was explaining just before we hit record Lauren
is not here unfortunately to ask me the first question but when she does come up against
artists she always likes to to ask the question uh what what does art mean to you
that's a that's a very difficult question to answer um
authenticity and
creativity in your own unique way um it also means doing something
purely for the sake of doing it and not necessarily to achieve some sort of
end goal or reward at the end but just doing something because it feels good and because
it you like it and you you like the way it looks and and and that I think um I became an artist
later in in life I would say uh I've been making art for about six years intentionally but I think
that I always was an artist or a creative and I'm a life uh lifelong I've been surfing since I was
very young i've been surfing for most of my life and surfing is an art form to me and so it's been
interesting in the last years creating art physical art professionally and kind of reflecting
in and we made it about five minutes um but reflecting on what is art uh with with this
magazine that i'm working on and have been putting together bitcoin art magazine and the question what
his art has come up so uh i i don't know i don't know what art is to me yeah well so i'm trying to
i'm trying to figure it out we are going to talk about the magazine because it's an awesome project
that you guys have put together and uh it come out of left field for it come out of nowhere well
you you showed up in my dms and asked me if i'd be uh willing to write a short article for the
magazine, which was both humbling and frightening at the same time, because I couldn't figure out
what would I have to offer like an art magazine just a 50 year old dude with a podcast that talks to plebs around the world No one would ever have like attached my name or podcast with Bitcoin art
I feel a shared alignment in values and life perspective with you.
and I also thought it would be nice to have I the the magazine has and the book has a I guess what
you wrote is a forward of sorts um I also had Knut Svanholm write something or asked him to
write something so I asked I asked a couple of different people that I felt uh held shared
values and and um you were willing so you you're you're you're uh you and knut are the the openers
of the genesis edition of bitcoin art magazine love it well and again actually i'm gonna i'm
gonna drop it madex the madex manifesto is the first page of the magazine of course and then it's
and then i believe it's knut and then you are the the two preceding the two following and then i
think thereafter it's tomer stro lights uh it's i believe part five of the legendary treasure of
satoshi nakamoto so it's it's a real strong opening and um yeah you're you're you're one
of two forwards for the magazine yeah and i yeah very humbling and again you know canute wouldn't
be particularly attached with the art world either i mean it's it's great to see that you
You've reached out to people that wouldn't be commonly known within these art circles.
Obviously, we're friends with a bunch of you guys.
And Canute and Fractal have been friends for a long time because Fractal did the cover for Sovereignty,
the original Sovereignty, which was one of his early books.
So that's awesome.
Toma, much more of a creative.
In fact, we sat down last night as a family and re-watched Bitcoin as Generational Wealth.
so that was a that was a four-year revisit with the family and it's just great to see the kids like
huh you know they're four years older now and so many different sats are dropping in their minds
and um yeah very very cool well let's let's talk about how we met because that was a fun little
anecdotal story back in uh miami 2022 when uh i was walking around with with john vallas come back
to us, John, we need your podcast back again. Come on. I know, I know he's busy writing a book,
but I just miss tuning into John each week. Is that what he's working on right now? Yeah.
Okay. I'm excited to see what he writes. I, you know, and maybe it, maybe it was,
maybe it was that, that it's funny because I did not, I didn't think of it at the time,
But when I asked you to write a piece for the magazine, maybe there was something subconsciously that remembered that meeting in Miami back in 22.
Maybe.
So, yeah, that's kind of cool.
I'm really happy that you reminded me of that just now.
Yeah, it was definitely a surreal moment because there we were walking around.
We were hanging together and he's like, I've got to go and buy a gift.
I want a piece of artwork.
and uh so we we headed off around the stalls and um approached you guys
yeah i was that was my my uh debut into the bitcoin art world and and so i had a booth in
the bazaar in the back of miami i had a couple paintings in the gallery uh dennis was and
scare city guys they were dennis was kind enough to let me let me enter some art into the gallery
and I got a booth in the back of the bazaar and set it all up.
And I actually sold a bunch of art, which was really exciting,
to a bunch of people that were new that I had never met
in a field that I was still learning about fully.
So you'd not fully grokked Bitcoin at that stage?
I had at that stage.
I had, yeah, I found out about Bitcoin in 2017.
I was paid for some work I did on a hemp farm in Bitcoin.
And I actually, you know, looking back, of course, I should not have sold it or spent it.
But I think it's kind of based, I actually was like, oh, this is digital money.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, I'll take it as payment.
And then I spent it like it was money.
So I'm medium of exchange since day one. Like all of us, I should not have sold it.
And then I was kind of in and out of Bitcoin. I didn't have the aha moment. I didn't grok it fully for three or four years until 2020, 2021.
and um and then a friend of mine was like you should make some bitcoin art and you should also
like learn a little bit more about bitcoin and i uh it was kind of making they told me hey look
some like check out i think it was a sculpture by brecky actually like check it out this sculpture
just sold for like fifteen thousand dollars like there's like this bitcoin art scene you should try
and make some Bitcoin art. It was Kisa actually, who has been helping me edit the simplest Bitcoin
book. She's the senior editor for, she wrote the simplest Bitcoin book and she's the senior editor
for Bitcoin art magazine. And she's an old friend of mine. And she was the one who was, I kind of,
back in 2017, her and I had kind of talked a bit about Bitcoin. And she was like, hey,
you should check this out basically. And so I, I, I kind of got back on Twitter,
got on Twitter more in depth and was like, Oh wow, this is really cool.
Uh, and I, I don't know. I just suddenly had an aha.
I just suddenly had the aha moment. Maybe it was, it was probably COVID,
you know, going through that. I think a lot of people,
it like really shook, shook things up and you realize, you know,
I always knew things were not as they seem, but I realized, you know, it was,
I felt force, in a sense, at my doorstep.
I think a lot of people did.
They felt there was the brunt of the establishment and the state coercing entire nations into terrible things, in my opinion.
And that was a big wake-up call.
So that probably played a big part in it.
And I just dove headfirst back down into the rabbit hole and had that grokking moment, that aha moment, and started making Bitcoin art that year.
And then I was at Miami 2022.
So I went from not engaging with Bitcoin on a daily basis to engaging with Bitcoin and the Bitcoin space every single day.
And I've done so ever since.
So Valis and I rock up to the stand.
What happens next?
He, he, he, I think he asked me, I had some framed prints hanging on the wall behind me.
And I believe he asked me, Hey, how much for that one? And I, I told him the price for the print
was like a hundred bucks or something, $120. And, and I, and he said, okay, cool, I'll take it.
And, and then I, so I went to, I think I went to roll up a print for him or to, or to sleeve up a
print. And he's like, no, no, I want the one with the frame. And I was like, oh, it's just,
that's my display frame and he was like well how much for the one with the i was like i was like i
don't i don't want to sell it and he's like well how much do you want for it and i was like well i
guess like you know like 100 bucks you know 150 bucks for with the frame like you know it's like
250 bucks 300 bucks and he was like okay i'll take it and i was like i think i was like can you
come and pick it up later because i don't want to i want to keep it as my display and i don't
remember if i ended up giving it to him then or if he did come back for it later but uh the whole
time you were nudging him and you were like you were like hey you got to tell him tell him what
this is for and and i and i and i i like didn't catch it at first and then you were like hey come
on you gotta you gotta tell him man and i was like what i was like what you gotta tell me what
i was like who's this for i was like now you have to tell me i'm intrigued and so are you allowed to
say who it was for yeah cool so you you uh i don't remember if it was you or if it was him that told
me but but i think it might have been him he said that the art was going to the sailor compound
yeah and uh so i was like that that was that was pretty pretty epic um that was a pretty epic
moment right there and and definitely a big as an aspiring bitcoin artist a big win right there
and then at my my first ever bitcoin conference and my first time selling my bitcoin artwork
yeah it was a personal gift from john to michael because michael had extended the invitation for him
to stay at his house.
It's not a house.
It's a great villa with many rooms.
And him and his father were staying there
at the invitation of Michael.
So John was looking for something to express his gratitude
for the hospitality.
And I just, for me, it was like, man,
you've got a young artist stood right here
in front of you right now.
I mean, I know artists,
they don't really care where their art ends up going and it's in the world and that's where it
needs to be you know very philosophical about this kind of stuff uh but i i know it just felt right
that you should know and it might inspire you to uh keep on doing what you're doing or whatever
else but uh that was that was a story and john did end up telling you and i think he did come
back and get it later otherwise he would have been walking around with it so i think it worked
out perfectly for everybody I think it yeah Yeah And you absolutely right And that was a huge inspiration So I I thank you very much I will I will always be grateful for you
for having him tell me that day. I do have a question. Did it, do you know if sailor ever
ended up hanging it up? That's something I've wondered a couple of times. I've been like,
I wonder if it's there somewhere in a hallway or like, you know, I'm like, if it's hanging up
anywhere if it's in a bathroom i'll be happy um but uh that would be that would be so cool
i do not know but that that'll be really fun one day maybe you might just see like a picture or
something or catch a glimpse you're like oh shit it's there yeah who knows yeah or i'm gonna someday
maybe when he does one of his big events i'll ask um somebody who's who's there that i now
made more friends in the space be like hey did you see my art anywhere while you were there you know
he's supposedly there's a print there of mine um i think it was a set was it a set of prints it
might have been a set it might have been the mask and the pill i think it was yeah no he wanted to
he chose the mask and then i think as soon as you found out who it was for i think you rolled
something else up uh and was like send this over to yeah yeah and uh sorry just to bring it full
circle it was at that moment that uh kisa handed me a copy of her book uh and uh i was like well
that's very kind of you thank you very much she's like yeah no i'd love for you to read it and uh
you know thank you for everything that you're doing and whatever and i thought wow really
appreciate it never heard of the book got into the book loved it i love all the numbering and
all of the stories in there and uh of course she's been on the podcast as well so we've done that and
it's great to see that but you guys are still working together on this uh art magazine as well
yeah it's uh it's funny when when that happened i didn't know who you guys were but she did
and so she was like hey like that's like john vallas and daniel prince like that's like like
that's really cool and then when he was like oh this is going to the sailor compound you know
it's funny and now that i think about it she must have been like oh my gosh this is like so much
more amazing than i even fully understood at the time thereafter though it was a huge inspiration
that was a very big inspiration that whole event was but but uh for me because i sold my paintings
it went in auction for a price that i was happy with and i sold a good amount of art and that
happened and there was a couple other incidents and i walked away from that feeling very inspired
so i do really thank you for that i genuinely believe that contributed to my inspiration
and stoke on continuing to make bitcoin art so that's amazing well done congratulations on uh
on taking that leap and it's it's testament i've said it a hundred times if you just lean into this
space with some humility and integrity like the most amazing things happen like you'll get paid
back in ways that you could never ever have imagined yeah absolutely amen to that
all right let's get on to actually i want to talk to you about your upbringing
because we touched on that before we hit record.
And I like to see what's going on now with young Bitcoin families
that are choosing this path or considering this path.
So can you just tell people how you were brought up
and the kind of education that you had as a young man?
Absolutely.
I was a, I guess the conventional way of saying it would be
I was a homeschool kid.
But in all reality, I was more of a free school or a no school kid.
So I think part of that was because I was an extremely spirited child.
Definitely I am on the spectrum, as are most of us Bitcoiners to some degree.
And I was very difficult as a child in certain ways.
I was very kind and I was very sweet, empathetic.
I think I was a very intelligent, extremely discerning, perceptive child and very communicative and linguistic from a very young age.
But I had I had some serious angst and frustrations and was very hard to get me to do anything that I didn't want to do.
and my parents were super cool old hippies and they they decided that they didn't want to
you know force me to go to school if I didn't want to and I think that my mother realized that
at a young age she she realized that they were gonna have to break me and break my soul
truly to get me to sit at a desk for eight hours a day listening to some you know state
indoctrination drivel from a teacher that hates their, you know, sadly underpaid job.
And she just decided her, they just decided they weren't going to make me do it.
So they were really cool and they would let me go to school. They would give me the opportunity.
So I've been to almost every kind of school that there is as far as a public, private charter,
Sudbury, Montessori, Waldorf. We moved around a lot, kind of nomadic family. And so I tried out
a bunch of different kinds of school. And usually after like two or three months, I would just be
like, I'm over it. And so they would just let me drop out and basically like run around and play
and just do whatever I wanted. And if I had an interest in something, they would get me the
resources that I needed to learn about it, whether that was books or movies or taking me somewhere.
And, uh, yeah, it was, it was interesting. I was, I think I was seven or eight years old
and we were six or seven. We were in a, we were actually living in the Pacific Northwest
and, uh, we were outside of, I'm not going to say where, but we, I, I, they, they put me in
this free school and it was like uh i think it was it was a sudbury school and and the kids they
have all of the resources and the faculty like teachers there but none of there's no curriculum
it's just make your own curriculum so if you're like i want to learn about animals or i want to
learn about science you just tell one of the like teacher faculty people and they're like okay cool
let's like make you a curriculum and,
and get you books on science and we can get you movies on science and help you
build your own curriculum.
And there was a computer room there where they would play like Starcraft and
like some computer games.
And I would like end up just hanging out in the computer room all day,
like playing computer games.
And one day I just told my mom, I was like, this isn't like healthy for me.
I just like play computer games all day.
And so I, I, I left that school, but,
which was interesting because they had like super cool stuff to do like outside and like access to
whatever you wanted but uh yeah so the only full year of school i ever did was seventh grade
which i did we were actually living in southern india and we lived there for three years
in an international community and i did uh one year of school that was seventh grade and then i
didn't do eighth grade and then i did a semester of ninth grade and then that was the last conventional
schooling that I've done. So I've been to probably a total of about three years of real school in my
life. Yeah, I would say I've been to, I tell people I've been to trade school because I started
working at a relatively young age, 14 or 15. And so I've learned a lot on jobs. And yeah, I think
I turned out all right. I don't know if it's for everybody, but I'm not a wildly successful
financially successful individual but anything that I put my mind to I've done well with
and I would contribute that to reading so I taught myself to read when I was seven
or eight years old and my mother was reading me Harry Potter and she would read it to me before
bed every night and she would you know read a couple chapters and then she would get tired and
say okay I'm gonna go to bed after this chapter's over and I would it would get you know chapter
would end and I would say one more chapter one more chapter and she was like no I'm tired you're
like seven years old or eight years old you should like learn to read I'm gonna go to bed like there's
the book read it if you want to like not not in a mean way just she was tired and so I was so
determined to know what was happening in the story I sat there and forced myself to sound out
Voldemort, you know, Hogwarts and so forth. And I could, I could sound out words at that point.
So I had picked up in the bits of school I had been to here and there and some like homeschool
groups and whatever odd stuff that I, you know, places where they tried to teach you things like
reading. I could sound out words and I could probably recite the alphabet. You know, I was
seven years old and I was very communicative and linguistically capable so I sat there and I
taught myself to read Harry Potter essentially and then from that moment on I read everything
I could get my hands on from fantasy novels and and medieval fantasy books I read all of
the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit and all of the rest of Harry Potter and then went into sci-fi
like Isaac Asimov sci-fi and read coffee shop or airport bookstore murder thrillers
and self-help books Deepak Chopra I mean I just I just kind of from the age of seven or eight
till about 15 or 16 I just read anything that I could get my hands on probably read a couple
thousand books and i think that that was that was very helpful this is such a this completely smashes down the worry of if you don go to school you never learn to read which is one of the great um myths of uh of homeschooling or
unschooling or world schooling call it whatever you like uh yeah and i i see it in my own kids
because lauren um they've started a at a local school here they're doing kind of a uh a blended
curriculum with land management
vocational skills and
animal husbandry and that's mixed in with
like state GCSEs
that they called over here. They'd be the equivalent to SATs
I suppose. And like the
difference that you
see between like
our kids and
the kids that are now kind of
been merged with, like the things
she says, she's like, none of them have ever
read any books. It's like really
weird.
They always ask me all the time, what would you do this
weekend i just sat down and i read my books and have you read this one and they look at me like
i've got two heads and what what happens in like that indoctrination scenario is and this is very
well documented uh john holt has talked about this so ken robinson has talked about this peter
gray has talked about this yabor mate as well about how the um you know you just destroy like
like what your mother and father were afraid of like your soul being destroyed that's the purpose
of it like you know you crush that love of learning that creativity that spark is just completely
snuffed out and you you don't have the time to explore the things that you know are interesting
to you and you had the incentive like we we know this is bitcoin as austrian economics like
follow the incentives right the incentive for you was to get to the end of that next chapter and well
fucking hell you better figure out how to read or and become self-sovereign yeah yeah
it it's it's fascinating yeah that's that's really interesting that that that you say she
says the other kids there don't read books no books to them you see at that age kids um
associate books with textbooks and textbooks are the worst right the last thing you ever want to do
So they associate books with sit down, get your pen and paper out, open the textbook.
Like no one wants to do that ever.
No, it's it's they I can.
It makes a lot of sense.
You start to associate books with something that you're forced to do by people that you don't like.
And why would you ever do that for fun?
And that's I mean, that alone is possibly more detrimental to kids than anything, because they say you should go to school so you can learn how to learn.
But if you kill the joy of learning, then why would you ever want to learn anything?
And so, I mean, it's, you know, many, most conventional schooling, I guess, is breaking
their, breaking them, breaking their, breaking their spirit, breaking their creativity, and
then actually instilling like a despise of learning in them, which then they go home
and they don't want to learn anything anywhere, anywhere else in life.
I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's really tragic. And it's, it's interesting academically, like,
I'm not the greatest at math, but beyond math that you use on a daily basis, why do I need to
know any other math? If I wanted to go work at, if I wanted to go learn engineering or go work on
rockets or something, I'm sure, sure as shit will learn the math that I need to know to do so.
And if I can't, then I probably shouldn't be working on rockets anyways. So, but whenever,
How does sacred geometry and math come in?
Because you said at the beginning here,
you have a big love of sacred geometry.
Visual math.
Right.
So I, you know, the sacred geometric artwork,
it's visual.
So you don't actually need to do any mathematical equations
to create good sacred or sacred geometry
or good geometric artwork.
You know, it's very, very visual based.
but but math's never been a problem like in any normal job i've never and i've worked all i've
worked all kinds of regular jobs yeah what was what was normie fiat life before bitcoin artist
i um i i have i mean i've worked like you know as a teenager all right i'll start at the very
beginning. So I, the first paid work that I ever did beyond maybe like washing a friend's parents'
car or some like odd chore they gave us some money for was in India. I had a friend whose
mother was the caregiver for a, what's the word, a handicapped elderly man who he was actually,
he was the first man he had been hit by a lorry in India and it took it removed his arm like his
arm got ripped off he was I think on a motorbike or a bicycle he got hit by an Indian roads like
bus or lorry ripped his arm off and they did the first arm reconstructive surgery in India
on him and it was I don't maybe it was a combination of like how bad the accident was
and the fact that it was like the first ever reconstructive arm surgery supposedly that's
what i was told but it was like pretty gimpy i don't know if that's a pc to say or very nice to
say but that's what it was uh but he was this total character he was this old american guy and
he had these great stories but basically the job was to go over there in the morning a couple days
a week and like help him get dressed and like uh clean himself up help him shower and shave and
like basically like get dressed and ready for the day which is really interesting because i was like
it was like 14 years old so i was basically like doing like caregiver work at the age of 14
and my my friend's mom paid me and then my friend who was like my same age to go over there and help
him out so that it was like five or seven days a week we each had like a couple days and it was
like an hour or two of work and she like paid us all right for it and it was cool and he had like
these crazy stories of like smuggling hash way back in the day and like like but talk about like
women and stuff and like women he had known and like he was it was it was it was pretty hilarious
um he was uh definitely like an old pirate kind of guy but uh yeah we when we helped him like
you know get dressed in the morning so that was actually the first paid job i ever had i then had
a job where i helped build some like pagoda huts kind of palapas uh if you will like natural
building materials and for like a one of the like eco nature kind of communities in the area
and um then i've worked in and we had left india and we were living in hawaii and i worked at some
like busing at a restaurant worked in a grocery store a little ice cream shop kind of run-of-the-mill
odd jobs all of which i succeeded at very successfully i mean you don't you basically
anybody can restock grocery shelves um and you know if you can't restock grocery shelves
effectively then you probably have you know actual underlying conditions um i don't think
school is going to help you restock grocery shelves or not uh and then i've done landscaping
and construction and then i learned working with a good friend of mine solar design and installation
shipping container fabrication ag plan implementation like large-scale irrigation
small-scale irrigation plumbing general construction learned how to drive bobcats and skid steers and
excavators uh dump trucks and just i would say general construction but with a pretty like broad
focus and my friend's super cool and he he would call us sustainable solution technicians and so we
would do like property management kind of stuff uh from you know installing fruit trees and
irrigation like installing a 40 acre orchard for somebody to like building a additional wing of
someone's house or a building a shed for someone like pretty much anything you name it kind of
construction guy so i learned a lot from him and did well doing all of that kind of stuff so i would
call it that that i would call a trade school time in my life and then i got i was busing at a
restaurant also and i learned to roll sushi one of the chefs left and i somehow managed to get them
to teach me to make sushi. So I was a sushi chef for a couple of years there. And I've worked in
three different sushi bars, two in Hawaii, one in California. I did that successfully. You don't
need to know, um, you know, a whole also kind of a hands-on trade school sort of thing, I guess.
So more, more work that was with my hands and less like, you know, academic smarts kind of work,
but cool interesting stuff and um what did i do then i i did a bunch of like interior design
in southern california for a bit uh before covid i like a friend of mine that i had met at burning
man of all places out by robot heart on the playa at like 4 a.m uh he was somehow ended up in la
and was doing like design based work,
like interior design kind of stuff.
But he's also like a kind of crazy polymath kind of guy
who could like draw like the schematics of a watch,
like design a watch, like perfectly sketched out.
And so he knows like, you know,
AutoCAD and SketchUp and different rendering softwares.
And then also like plays super sick music
and then also can like paint a mural.
So very like multifaceted kind of guy.
And so I was working with him for a bit
and we remodeled like a half a million dollar remodel
the interior of a house in abbot kinney in venice and then we did some work for some startups like
installing a fall wall in their office and uh getting custom neon signage made for them and
then also like painting a mural for them and we did like a custom led entranceway installation at
a dispensary up in oakland one time so cool design related stuff that was kind of getting a little
more artsy uh which is kind of cool when i think about that there was a progression from doing
crafts trades based work to doing more and more art based work to now being a full-time artist
so yeah and then i did spend uh probably four or five years on farms growing hemp
and everything that entails and uh yeah so but never along the way did anybody ever fire me
or did i ever was i ever unable to complete a job and make a
a fair paycheck for lack of having been to conventional schooling or not being able to
do basic math you know so you learn a lot of basic math on hemp farms yeah
yeah i bet you too all right so now with all of that like yeah varied and that's the beauty of it
right because uh otherwise you come out of the box of the state education indoctrination system
and straight into the next box whether that's university and then straight into the next box
whether that's your chosen career or whatever you can get and then life just passes you by
and 35 years later you're like what the hell just happened but um well all of that experience has
brought you now to the bitcoin art magazine so let's talk about that like this is quite the
undertaking uh there have been a few bitcoin magazines we've we've had obviously the the big
one shitcoin magazine uh we had citadel 21 which was a great one that was uh yeah hodland north and
uh and and uh and others over there and then you had 21ism which was uh an online zine which uh
which was great then you had dim zyan the artist was doing his magazines with the uh the honey
badger uh but it's hard work man like uh this is an undertaking so however you found why why did
you choose to to do a bitcoin art magazine and and you know what have the challenges been and the
successes i i i uh i didn't think it was going to be as hard as it has been let's make a magazine
he said um i will say that not having gone to conventional school and having had parents that
practiced positive reinforcement and a lot of non-violent communication as developed by
marshall b rosenberg which if anybody isn't aware of and is listening to this you should definitely
check out nvc non-violent communication by a guy named developed by a guy named marshall rosenberg
which my mom started studying when I was nine years old.
And, but a lot of positive reinforcement.
And, and, and yeah, I think, I think, you know, it's interesting.
I think ultimately having not gotten stuck in the whole grad,
graduate school, college, university, kind of black hole of sorts,
was probably in my benefit overall,
unless I wanted to study or somebody wants to study something that you
You obviously need to go to extensive grad school for such as like surgery or, you know, certain kinds of engineering, mechanical engineering.
Or maybe, you know, if you want to pilot tanker ships, you should go to, you know, a school that teaches you how to drive a giant boat and so forth.
But a lot of like most work you don't really need to, I don't think you need to go to school for.
And I think that's allowed me, having been able to work many different kinds of jobs successfully, and has allowed me to get to try out a bunch of different stuff and to be able to do stuff that also, you know, maybe a lot of people wouldn't try to do because I believe that I could do it.
So I decided I want to make a magazine.
Now, a Bitcoin art magazine is something that's been talked about a lot, I believe.
believe i've talked about it a good amount with a bunch of the other artists uh notably aladdin
who i help out uh and serve as the art director for bitcoin trading cards shout out bitcoin trading
cards but also rebel money who is a phenomenal bitcoin artist which if you don't know of rebel
money rebel money art you should check out rebel money's work and him and i have become what i would
consider friends over the last couple years. And in Nashville, Bitcoin Nashville, after the
Bitcoin conference there in 2024, he and I, I have to give him credit, him and I believe it was MLO
and Yonat Vox, also phenomenal Bitcoin artists, made a gallery catalog for their work that was
featured in the gallery and they did it really nicely and i saw it and was very impressed and
and so i started chattering on to rebel about like what about like a like another one of these but it
has all the artists in the galleries work in it you know and what about a bitcoin art magazine you
know and you know i'm pretty sure he was like yeah yeah you know like of course like we thought about
this and you know i've talked to so and so about it or whatever and him and i went and got lunch
together. We talked about it a bunch and we kind of made a loose plan that we were going to make a
Bitcoin art magazine. And then we left the conference and life happened and him and I
didn't talk about it at all. And then he started doing the Art of Freedom podcast with Flo Montoya,
another phenomenal artist. Shout out. If you don't know Flo, check her out. And they were doing,
or have been, had been running the Art of Freedom podcast on Twitter spaces for a while.
he was kind of busy with that and then they like curated a gallery that's currently happening
oh i think it might be ending by the time this podcast gets released but there was a gallery at
the space in denver of artwork and uh it's going on auction very soon but they organized a really
cool a collection of posters at nash uh at vegas that was in the gallery there but they were quite
busy with stuff and I you know I saw I saw what they were doing and I was inspired honestly by it
and I got fired up and was like I'm just gonna make the magazine and I'm just gonna do it and
rebel was busy with art of freedom it seemed and so I I just just started hitting up the artists
and was just I I think I put a post out on Twitter and said hey I'm gonna make a bitcoin art magazine
who wants to be in it send me a dm and i got a bunch of people hit me up and then i reached out
to a handful of some of the bigger names as well and i just had such a like there was such a like
smooth and easy like flow in in into getting it set up and like such a great response from everybody
that i was super confident i still am super confident now thanks to the wider community
response that's been overwhelmingly positive and i made a submission form and got a bunch of
artists to send me stuff and it was actually crazy within like two or three days i closed
submissions because i had like so many people that were like i want to be in it i check this
out i have this and i discovered a whole bunch of new artists that were making bitcoin related art
and that was kind of the the inception of it and that was at the beginning of this year
and then I started building the whole magazine in Adobe Illustrator which is as I knew but not
where you build a magazine but I kind of just had the idea that's what I know how to use because I
use that for some of my other art and for making Bitcoin trading cards and so I just was like I'm
just started basically did the rough layouts in Adobe Illustrator and then I realized it needed
to be an InDesign, Adobe InDesign.
And so I had someone help me start transferring it
over into InDesign.
And her name's Emily, and she's the creator
of Block Hunters Board Game.
Shout out, Emily.
She helped me move the whole thing into InDesign,
and I kind of got my head wrapped around InDesign.
And then, very exciting, I actually
got Annabelle Baza, the former creative director and design director of Bitcoin Magazine, five-year
tenor. So she hand-built the last 20 issues of Bitcoin Magazine. She's no longer working with
Bitcoin Magazine as of right now, but she and her and I had become friends. There was an article I
had in the halving edition of Bitcoin Magazine featuring my seed cipher art. And then her and I
worked on a really amazing article and a cool project where the freedom issue of Bitcoin Magazine
came with packs of Bitcoin trading cards. And so her and I had kind of just developed a friendship,
working relationship, associate kind of thing over the last couple of years. And she was really
excited about the Bitcoin art magazine and wanted to help me out.
And so she's now helped me rebuild it for the third time,
extremely professionally,
and is helping me oversee the whole print and production.
So that's been really amazing.
Shout out to Annabelle.
A lot of people don't know who she is,
but she is an absolute design wizard or sorceress I don know But so yeah so it exciting It going to be really nice
It's going to be really well done.
I'm very confident of that in a big part
to having Annabelle come in
and help me really tie it all together.
And when can people get their hands on it?
What's the idea for that, dropping it?
So you can pre-order it right now.
You can go to bitcoinartmagazine.com and pre-order it.
and the magazine is at the printers right now.
So hopefully we start shipping in two to four weeks.
We'll see how long it takes to actually get on my doorstep.
But currently it's,
I think this week should be going on the printing press
and we're doing offset printing,
which is really exciting as opposed to digital printing
at a very well-established printmaker's shop up in Canada.
And so we have four options.
We have our base edition, unnumbered base magazine.
We'll cap the supply.
It'll still be super rare, so get your hands on a copy.
It's only $33 plus shipping.
And we'll buy a subscription for $84 plus shipping.
and uh that that it's going to be really beautiful it's going to be really nice quality high quality
uh but it will be it's unnumbered if i get some opportunity to print some more i want to
distribute as many as i can i want to spread the artwork i would like to it's an archive in a in a
sense it's an art journal and i would like to help spread the artists that are in it shout out to all
of the artists that have helped make this possible that have made this possible and all of the amazing
artwork that you create and continue to create please keep creating it uh the list is it's over
30 artists so i'm not going to name everybody right now but fractal encrypts full node sculpture
is featured on the cover and some of the big names in it are madex cypherpunk now alex schaefer
marcus connor we have brekkie vaughn bitcoin with bitcoin apex um it's a it's a stand-up lineup we
have ryer and zetra we've got a we've got a bunch of really amazing newer artists in it as well
it's 36 art 36 artists i believe and uh so the base edition is unnumbered but we will cap the
the print at some point here. So it'll still be pretty limited. And our first print is going to be
like my goal is to distribute like 2000 copies. And if I can figure out how to distribute more,
there's a lot of demand for it. And or I get some amazing opportunities, a couple of things that I'm
working on up my sleeve, then maybe we'll print some more. But we will announce how many were
printed once we're done printing it. The next tier up is a gold foil cover. And that's going to be,
it's a parallel of the magazine. So it's all the same interior content, but the cover has got like
fancy gold foiling and it's hand signed and numbered by yours truly. And there'll be 210 of
those. And then there is a hardcover book that we're doing, and there will be 121 of the hardcover
book and that's not a magazine it's called bitcoin art genesis edition so we're actually
have created a bitcoin fine art book in tandem with the magazine now it features all of the same
artwork and words from the artists and your forward is included and then but we've removed
some of the more magazine content uh so like there's no advertisements in the book there's
actually two books and there's a couple other things that we pulled out so we really went for
like a fine art coffee table book.
It's a Bitcoin art hardcover book,
edition of 121.
And then we have a patrons edition
of the book.
It's a hardcover book
with gold foil on the cover,
raised UV.
We haven't dialed in
all the effects just yet,
but we're going to bling it out
pretty, pretty nice
and put it in a really fancy nesting box.
And there'll only be 21 of those.
And they're almost all sold out.
There's only three left.
There's one in fractal encrypts,
Haudley Day Market. Shout out if this drops in time to go and pick something up from the
Fractals Haudley Day Market. There's a Bitcoin white paper in it, which is pretty epic and some
casatious coins. So some cool pieces of history are in that collection. And so I've got one of
the patrons editions available there, and then I have two available on the website. And so
it's been an overwhelming response from the community at large on pre-orders for this thing.
Shout out to all of our patrons, big and small,
and shout out to our advertisers or our sponsors,
who are also patrons of the arts,
because I could not do any of this without everybody
who's put an ad in the magazine or pre-ordered a magazine or a book.
So, sorry, that was a lot.
You've done a great deal of work.
So where should people go and look?
Is it simply bitcoinartmagazine.com?
It's bitcoinartmagazine.com.
I knew it was meant to be when I looked up the domain and it was available.
Wow.
So bitcoinartmagazine.com is our website.
And we also offer free digital copies of the simplest Bitcoin book ever written.
You can also buy the simplest Bitcoin book ever written in our store.
And we will be doing some limited edition fine art prints.
Have a couple exciting little projects with a couple of the artists featured in the Genesis edition.
So we will be offering a bit of art for sale through the website as well.
But the feature attraction is the magazine or the book itself and all of the artist's art that's within it. So I'm envisioning this as an archive of sorts to archive this.
you know what i feel like and many of us bitcoiners feel like is a monumental point
in history as bitcoin adoption goes mainstream you know and there's going to be a loss of a lot
of the cypherpunk culture there already is i know a lot of us all feel it and i hope that through
bitcoin art we can hang on to the some of the remnants of you know what uh what what what it
was like here pre wall street adoption yeah and continue forward we're gonna say when uh i guess
the next magazine suit coin art magazine is that the idea yeah yeah it's interesting it's gonna be
interesting what happens with this i have a lot of you mentioned citadel 21 earlier and so i have
a lot of um it's bittersweet that huddle and not capped it at 21 editions but i have a lot of
respect and understanding of why he did that you know yeah and it's it's that was an era in time
that is it's never going to be the same anymore no it's uh i feel that too uh with all of this um
uh the thing is right i worked on wall street uh well i was in singapore not on wall street but
you know what i mean in financial markets uh i spent 18 years there so i know the uh wow i know
i know the fuckery i worked in foreign exchange before yeah the fiat currency you know the the
largest market in the world by orders of magnitude completely dwarfs equities and uh yeah it's sad
it's sad what's going on uh it was inevitable but there was a moment in time there where
obviously at the very very beginning it was a true cypherpunks and uh then you had like kind of
like the the monetary reformists that were hanging on to it uh and now yeah you've got people like
canter fitzgerald coming in and backing people to offer you loan products and it's it's it's a
weird time it's a weird time and a lot of people are going to lose a lot of bitcoin over this this
next 18 months to two years especially if they fall for these loan products uh it's um
yeah i don't know what i don't know what to think about it all yeah well it must be really
interesting i i didn't know that you that that's a long time you said 18 years in finance in trad
fi yeah that's a long that's a lot of that's a that's a couple masters of of a craft you know
right there. So that's, you know, that's, that's pushing 30,000 hours. So that, uh, yeah, what,
what, what's your take on all of this? Oh, you know, I guess I, you know, like, like a Blackrock
ETF. I don't, I'm a, I'm like a surfer, you know, hemp farm hippie kid. So I don't, I don't know
anything about the perspective of someone who's has your perspective of that kind of experience.
experience in trad fi like what is your take on on well i knew it was coming uh that's why i bought
bitcoin in the first place because once i realized uh like oh shit because i'd spent my whole career
seeing new financial wizardry markets you know i worked in derivatives right and foreign exchange
options you know options didn't exist until like the mid 80s i think it was something like that and
then you've just got derivative on top of derivative on top of derivative and then i saw
like a long date derivatives come in so you now can do like an option with an expiry of 30 years
and you're like what like thinking about it now like a 30-year expiry of an option uh of two fiat
currency pairs if you'd have if you'd have done like a 10-year expiry of a dollar mark in 1995
you wouldn't have seen expiry because the deutsch mark didn't exist anymore and nor did the french
Frank and not in the Lira, you know, it's, but this is what Wall Street does.
It just dreams up all of this random shit.
So when I started really falling down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and it suddenly clicked to me it like wait a minute this isn coming from we didn even use the word tradfire right until like two years ago like this is this is a this is
an investable asset that has not been designed by the incumbent you know monopolies over uh you know
designing financial instruments i'm like holy fucking shit wait till they realize and that's
that was like the click moment for me it's like i can invest into something before these guys even
realize what it is now i didn't think it would take them as long as it did to to suddenly you
know catch up to speed and they were very much still bashing it you know the the fud that we've
had to listen to like people like jamie diamond and i'm sure he's speaking out of both of the both
sides of his mouth um i'm sure they've been working on these kind of products in the background
and at the same time going on to the World Economic Forum
and saying, no, it's rubbish.
It's Warren Buffett calling it rat poison
and all this kind of stuff.
So here we are.
I knew it would come one day, and sadly, here it is.
And what's even worse is Bitcoiners
that have been around a couple of years
that just haven't quite built up the conviction yet
will sell some bitcoin to diversify um or they will loan their bitcoin to some of these loan
products that are just popping up left right what do you what do you make of the are there any loan
products out there that you that you think are like is there any loan bitcoin loan that that
is there any way to do it that's safe is there anything out there that is being done in in a
more higher i i mean there's no i don't know if there's anything such thing as like a ethical or
a moral loan but like you know like 21 like jack mallard's stuff like are there any that you're
like okay like what they're doing you know is like may you know make sense at least to for xyz
reason to xyz people or something or would you say like don't ever loan against your bitcoin no
matter what yeah i'd say that uh i'd say you know unchained probably have the longest track record
but i'm not even sure that's available globally i think it might still only be available in the
us i'm sorry unchained if i'm if i'm talking shit there uh but they've got the longest track record
so if anyone's looking then then go and look there but otherwise you know what's to protect you from
a flash crash uh nothing yeah nothing because yeah and this can happen and not only can it happen i
I think it's actually being designed.
I think traps are being set.
I think honeypots are being set up.
I think companies and influencers are being very well backed by Wall Street institutions
to go out and attract Bitcoin as Bitcoin to their loan products.
And it's an easy sell, right?
You know, you never have to sell your Bitcoin.
Go and buy the Lambo.
Go and buy the penthouse apartment.
Go take the holiday.
Go do whatever it is.
Go build your Citadel.
and you can live the life you've been envisioning
and you can have it right now.
It's very easy to sell that narrative.
But if Bitcoin, the price of Bitcoin,
if there's a fat finger flash crash
on a Sunday night when you're asleep
and Bitcoin drops $25,000, $30,000
for four or five seconds
and then just recovers,
you're stopped out, man.
Your Bitcoin's gone.
So unless there's an insurance policy against that,
but I don't think anybody could offer that.
and yeah wall street can do this very easily like they are the masters of this shit
they they all of the financial crises that we've had in the past and will ever have in the future
are engineered the the stories of how they happened are just that stories it's like yeah
some dude in the tech department like he pressed ctrl f and like he wasn't supposed to and that
It crashed the price because it cleared all the stops out and blah, blah, blah.
But everything's okay now.
Meanwhile, your Bitcoin's gone because that, you know, it's, and where does it go?
It gets swept up by the custodians, right?
The people that are giving the fiat.
So the people that are offering you the loans don't have the fiat to give you.
So they've got to get the fiat from someone else.
So where does the fiat come from?
If I give my Bitcoin to XYZ company in exchange for fiat currency,
they don't have hundreds of millions of dollars of fiat to give out to all the people that are
coming in and using their service. So they've got liquidity providers in the background.
They will have their own set of agreements with those liquidity providers. And it could be two,
three, four, five or six liquidity providers. And they could be banks. They could be banks or
prime brokers that have direct relationships with the Federal Reserve. And they literally could be
printing fiat in the background. So you're giving up a Lordy title of your Bitcoin.
for freshly printed counterfeit money,
which you are then being charged usury on.
And I've seen just recently,
there's a new company come out.
They offered seven and a half percent.
So they undercut strike by like 50%.
And now they've already cut from seven and a half percent to 5%.
So the race to zero is already on.
And there's only like three or four companies out there.
And they're just trying to get as much Bitcoin
into this honeypot as they can.
um that's that's what i see it's when you describe it it it sounds like in it's i picture this like
it's like like truly like for one the most like sinister and just outright like evil fiat like
system mechanics at play and then like there's like this battle almost that's like it has like
feelings of like some sort of holy war in a in a in some ways strangely you know or not strangely
but like they want they're coming for the bitcoin and they're gonna come for it and and that's the
most on the positive side bullish news ever is that the fiat you know the fiat masters the
collectors are coming for your bitcoin and they're gonna do everything they can to try and get it
from our icy cold diamond hands.
Exactly.
With all the way you describe it,
with the allure of the britches in the Lambo.
And it's crazy.
And it's crazy because it's not a new trick.
That's the same old trick they've been using
for all of the stuff all along the way.
They're just repackaging it in a new,
the same old, you said it,
the same old trickery repackaged stuff.
there's a reason there's a reason bitstein wrote everybody's a scammer you know people people need
to go back and revisit that i think it was 2014 he released that article uh and uh yeah i mean this
has been the message for as long as i can remember like people will want your bitcoin and uh now wall
street want it and uh they have the best that they have the best they have the advantage right
because they have the headlines they have all the products they have the fiat to coax you and they
have the stories and have the expertise. So my message to people is just sit on your hands,
cold storage of Bitcoin, stay humble, stack sats and let all this kind of pass over us. But
we should get back to the magazine because there's one thing here that I think definitely needs to
be discussed. And that is, and I've had conversations with Fractal about this before,
You know, artists, Bitcoin artists, it's a tough gig out there being an artist in any field.
Like you don't meet many very rich artists.
But Bitcoin is so niche and a lot of Bitcoiners want to, they don't want to spend their Bitcoin.
And we had this rise of the NFTs, right, two or three years ago.
where did you when you were looking at that were you did you originally think hmm this is a way now
that i can monetize my art uh to make it more available to more people uh what what kind of
what what thought processes were you going through and and wherever you landed and will you be having
nfts in the in the magazines in the books what what's your thoughts
so i think it was it must have been 2020 or 2021 and i i went on openc and i made a i made an account
and i i made a piece of digital art it was like a little geometric jemmy thing um i should go look
if i can see if i can find it but i i i don't know what it was but for some reason i just that
was as far as I made it. And, and I didn't, I don't think I, I don't, I don't think I've,
I've never sold an NFT. I don't think. And I don't know, for some reason, I just didn't do it.
And it was, you know, shortly thereafter that I had the real aha moment, you know, and truly
grokked Bitcoin and Bitcoin maximalism and like what Bitcoin actually is beyond the face value,
you know or technical you know things which is a big thing currently with a lot of the contentious
controversy in the space between core and knots is i think there's a lot of people that they don't
understand bitcoin and they call themselves bitcoiners and they're in bitcoin and you can
they can argue that they're bitcoiners all day long you know until their faces are red because
they truly believe they're bitcoiners and they really understand technically the technicalities
of how Bitcoin works on a computer science level.
And they don't understand what Bitcoin is still at the end of the day.
Somewhere along the way there I feel like I understood what Bitcoin was as to how it relates And it I think a systems like a systems management kind of perspective really Like there Bitcoin the technology there Bitcoin
the money, there's Bitcoin, the philosophy, and there's Bitcoin, the culture, and there's Bitcoin,
the economic, you know, unicorn that it is. And there's, there's, there's Bitcoin is many
different things and has a lot of different effects on different things. And if you can
see from an extremely high level view truly and have experienced how Bitcoin changes you.
And you can visualize in your mind or picture how a Bitcoin standard can create a better world
in all areas of life and has the potential for countries to create healthy food for their
citizens to eat or for countries of people to create healthy food for themselves to eat
and so forth. You know, it's a really kind of big picture thing that gets way, way out there. And,
and so somewhere along the way, I just, I kind of saw, I saw it and I, I,
NFTs just aren't it, you know, and it's interesting. Did I lose you there?
no go ahead it's interesting being an artist and wanting to make money obviously and seeing the
hype and i mean i was there i could have i have never made an ordinal or an inscription
but i was there and i could have minted a sub 1000 ordinal probably sub 10k definitely
you know um and i never did and i never got on any of the shit coin hype so
you know and thankfully because i think at the the i think at the end of the day
it comes back to the very first question you asked and that's what is art or what is art to me
and an nft is not art it's a cryptographic hash in a computer and it's a digital signature
but it's not the art itself no matter how they try and package it up and scheme it kind of similar to
the loans and trad fi you know and it's a whole it's become a whole industry and i think that
maybe if nfts had have been done like not completely so scammy or so overrun by scams
they would have some merit because at the end of the day you know i make a print of my art and i
sign it and i sell that to someone and it's a piece of paper well what's wrong with someone who
in good honest in good honesty and in full knowing of what they're buying wants to buy just a jpeg
of my art with a cryptographic hash attached to it like in and of itself it's not that
sinister personally i don't think um but with all of the deception in the nft space and all of the
scams and the vc money and the and the proposition of it being a speculative investment a monetary
investment which is a complete terrible like it's like that's like just an outright lie and it's
just bad advice to sell someone they should buy a fucking jpeg with it or without a cryptographic
cash that's a signature proving some sort of provenance to it as a good investment is it's
obviously a bad idea go look at the price of 99.99% of the nfc's out there that were marketed as such
are they up right now no they're not are they ever going to be up no they're not so i mean
you know um i think that it it begs the question what is art and i think that art is the actual
artwork and so making bitcoin art magazine we will not be featuring nfts we may still trying to
work it out because this is extremely strange waters that i'm in right now you should see some
of the dms i get um we may feature some rare pepes or some rare pepe artwork and we're featuring
some artists that have made um nfts you can't really it's pretty hard to put together bitcoin
there's you know i think maybe five or six of us oh maybe there's about 10 or 20 of us
who are bitcoin artists who currently haven't or don't make who are like anti-nfts
um so i could probably get out like an issue of the magazine or maybe two that was
you know so and people are free and sovereign to do what they want and i think everybody's
on their own journey most of us were shit corners at one point so i i hope that
doing featuring just the artwork only and mainly focusing on physical art it'll encourage some of
the artists to maybe not fuck around with nfts um but whatever everybody's you know free market
and and you're sovereign to do what you want and distribute your art how you want i hope you do it
in an ethical way.
Where was I?
What was I saying, though?
I was saying that what is art?
And I think that, like, you know,
currently we don't have any digital art in the magazine.
We have art that's been made with digital tools
or the help of digital tools.
And I've been kind of going back and forth a lot.
Am I going to do digital art at all?
And I think I will.
I think I will do some digital art.
There's some amazing digital art out there
that's high proof of work.
But I'm not going to feature.
The article is not going to be about
how this is an ordinal or this is a nft it's going to be based on the merit of the artwork itself um
if it's only method of if the only way the artwork was distributed was as an nft i'm not sure what
to do with that because i don't know how i feel about that so i haven't really decided that yet
but um i i basically my current stance is the nft is not art i'm not going to highlight the nft
because frankly i don't think it's an entirely ethical way to distribute artwork
in part not because any specific artist is a scammer but because the entire space is so riddled
with scams um it's been tainted by fucking shitty people so yes and that sucks for you or whatever
but whatever i'm not putting it in my magazine um but like if your art's really cool i maybe will
show your artwork for the merit based on the merit of the art itself if you made a beautiful piece of
work and um so you know i'm still trying to figure it all out and i'm not exactly sure but i definitely
don't like nfts and i can say pretty strongly we're not going to be featuring nfts the only ones that
might get a little bit of leeway would be og counterparty tokens such as rare pepes and that's
because for one, they are a very big part of Bitcoin art
in the sense of there was a lot of artists
who are making artwork that was Bitcoin-related art,
like it or not, think it's total trash,
hate the green frogs, you know, or not.
There was people that were making art with Bitcoin themes
and a lot of it during the rare Pepe
and fake rare, you know, beginnings.
and I do think that there is you know there is some there is some there's there's definitely
some you know merit to that and that art that was created I'm at a bit of a con uh confliction of
how how to feature it but I also think that there was some innovation that was happening then where
it was actually uh like it was good intentioned like I genuinely believe that like most of the
people in the rare Pepe space were acting out a good intention.
These were not people that were like,
oh, we're going to get VCs to like pump this shit.
And if you go look at it,
like I've never heard of someone getting scammed
or like losing their money to like rare Pepe's
and at least in any significance
or by anybody else's coercion or, you know,
stories of riches or something.
It's like a very niche kind of underground thing.
And they were respecting the protocol's limits
that were in place, which was an 80 byte operaturn limit.
So counterparty tokens were done within parameters that the network at large, both on a consensus level and a relay policy level, had agreed upon.
So, you know, I don't think that Rare Pepe's and that some of the OG counterparty projects are terrible.
I love some of the art myself.
I don't collect them.
But, you know, and I learned how counterparty works.
I've made a couple of counter-party tokens when I first started doing Bitcoin art.
I don't make them anymore.
So that's probably the one area where I think that there was real innovation to some degree
that was happening.
And now 2021 NFT mainstream craze, all the garbage, don't need to even name any of it.
And then you have ordinals and inscriptions that is, in my opinion, was a roundabout hacked way of injecting arbitrary data into the Bitcoin main chain that was not respecting, that did not respect, or was finding workarounds, the limits that were in place to protect the network as a monetary network.
and prevent it from being a general dick butt arbitrary data storage network
for any Joe Schmo to scheme up any fantastical fiat-brained wizardry
to try and get gullible fools to give them their Bitcoin.
That's what ordinals and inscriptions, you know, unfortunately is.
Now, everybody, every artist who makes ordinals or inscriptions,
I think that actually a lot of them are really great and amazing people
and they make beautiful art or they're doing really interesting stuff,
generative art that's actually being created with data from the blockchain.
So there's like a bunch of cool stuff that's happening,
but like the way that it's being stored or distributed,
like that art doesn't need to be.
on Bitcoin. You can make generative art that's... You could take a plotter and you could take data
from the Bitcoin blockchain and you could plot artwork onto paper that's created from the Bitcoin
blockchain. MLO, shout out to MLO, actually does stuff like this. And you don't need to store your
art on the blockchain and on everybody else's nodes and i think that bitcoin in and of itself
is a work of art that satoshi created it's a work of mathematical and cryptographic artwork
it's a fucking digital cathedral that he created for all of our betterment and the betterment of
humanity and you don't walk into a cathedral and draw on the walls you don't walk into the
sistine chapel and spray paint on the ceiling like that would just be rude so i i you know i
kind of think it's rude to scrawl and graffiti you know or or even paint your masterpiece on
somebody else's masterpiece like go out in the world and create your art inspired by bitcoin and
create art about bitcoin and you don't need to create it on bitcoin and the only reason you're
doing that is because of some sort of speculative financial temptation that it's going to be worth
more because of it which you know like 99 of it's not so you know it's yeah yeah it's weird it's
funny you bring it's funny you bring up the uh the cathedral analogy because just recently in the uk
canterbury cathedral uh ran i don't know some kind of street art project or something whereby
they were projecting like street graffiti all around the inside.
The backlash was huge.
I can imagine.
I would hope so.
It was, yeah, big time.
Everybody on the socials were, you know,
what the hell are you doing?
This is just absolutely ridiculous, disrespectful.
This building that's been around since,
I think they started building it in the late 1100s.
And yeah, it's nice to see that that did get some backlash
just from the general populace, you know.
But the way that you use that description there on Bitcoin is great.
So, I mean, that leads us nicely into the current topic of the day,
the opsize wars or op return wars or knots versus core.
or what's going to be interesting is you're soon going to have version 29 against version 30 i
think like that that i think the whole fight moves um in house perhaps uh it's uh and now we have
bib 444 which is hot on the uh the latest uh piece of uh news coming out on the wire here uh
it's yeah it's a it's a big mess right now and it and it's uh you know it's so we got bitcoin
treasury companies over in one area of bitcoin we have the bitcoin loan products over in another
area we have this huge debate it's an unsettling time right now in bitcoin and i think a lot of it
is done purposefully to divide the communities.
But I know where all this is headed.
What's your worries?
What's your concerns?
Where do you see this playing out?
It's definitely scary.
It's very, very unsettling.
It's interesting.
I definitely agree that there's...
i i mean i i can only imagine that there's definitely bad actors you know
in bitcoin trying to cause strife rife and divide um
and they're doing a really good job of it and i i think it'd be naive of us to to believe that
they weren't let's yes you know yes uh the two like uh it's not as if the the three letter agencies
aren't aware of bitcoin it's not as if like we've already said here wall street aren't aware of
bitcoin like the the big interests uh political interests as well globally are aware of bitcoin
and this is you know some people say oh you're too much of a conspiracy theorist and i'm like
what the hell like when did we stop thinking conspiratorially as bitcoiners like this this
is kind of like how i was forged as a like we had to always be thinking you know four or five
steps ahead of the game and being critical and untrusting uh yeah of certain narratives uh and
i don't know it yeah that that's i i uh i was a conspiracy theorist long before i was a bitcoiner
you know and it's funny that that's actually a funny one because a lot of the things in
bitcoin that are good and positive being like a hippie child like we always ate organic food
And like, you know, exercise was always healthy and big pharma was always bad. And so when I say hippie, very libertarian, classic liberal hippies, you know, so a lot of the but I think and I think a lot of people were who found Bitcoin were that way.
we were already conspiracy theorists that might have that was a big reason we got into bitcoin
so where did that go i i will say that for all of the unsettlingness of stuff that's happening
i um i definitely am pro knots and i think that there is i think that there is i don't think
there's clearly some there's like i don't know exactly how much but there's a lot of money that
core gets that's from shit coiners straight up and that's not a conspiracy theory that's just a
fact so there's definitely interests that are being influenced no matter how much anybody says
they're not being influenced by xyz funder when someone gives you money you are inclined to make
them happy to get more money that's just basic incentive we don't need to explain that that's
another fact. So what's going on with Core? They're getting a lot of money from shitcoiners.
Is everything that's happening over there in alignment with Bitcoin being the most pure,
sound, strong, powerful, honey badger, apex asset store of value and medium of exchange on the
planet or is there some fiat schematic mechanic kind of influence being exerted towards you know
the development of what what is bitcoin going to be because it is a amorphous soft you know
open source software that could change into anything the only thing keeping bitcoin what it is
is the users of Bitcoin, the node runners and consensus rules. And all of that is created and
influenced and decisions are made as a group think hive mind or body of individuals as culture.
So culturally, what are you in alignment with? If Ethereum people could have their way,
they would have had smart contracts of ETH proportions on Bitcoin probably years ago.
Yes, that's actually a fact because Vitalik left Bitcoin to make Ethereum because the people that were running Bitcoin Core at that point in time didn't want to let him do the stuff that he wanted to do on Bitcoin because they knew that it was bad for Bitcoin.
So what's going on? I don't know.
But BIT44 I not entirely sure I think that Luke is a crazy individual but he has always come through for Bitcoin And there is not one single time that I been able to find or anybody been able to tell me about where he didn have Bitcoin as a sound form of money best interest at heart
So I'm definitely personally in the knots camp.
Anybody who follows me on Twitter probably knows that.
I also don't know what's going on.
It's all very scary.
I don't know who's right. And I don't think anybody actually does. But one thing I can say is that thanks to the amazingness and wonder of Bitcoin, I think it's a good thing that we're in some ways, at least at this divide, because it only I think can make Bitcoin stronger.
and things like client diversification are probably a good thing,
especially when it's clients that are at absolute opposite sides of an impasse with each other.
Because I don't think that anybody's ever going to get all of the Bitcoin developers to agree on one single thing.
And therefore, I don't think they'll ever pay them all off or be able to threaten them all into killing Bitcoin.
So if you're a newcomer to Bitcoin and you're listening to this and you're seeing everything going on,
I think that we're going to be just fine.
Yeah.
Like you're right about the VC money that floods in to fund developers,
but you've also got political class money as well.
Now, without a doubt, because of what's happened in the US,
you know, the Trump administration coming in and deregulization of the space,
which opens and people will be like, oh, yeah, free markets.
and like yeah i'm totally down with free markets but don't don't conflate don't confuse free markets
without right scams like you know if the president of a country comes in and starts deregulating a
whole sector and starts making shit tons of money on the back of it for his own family i.e. launching
his own coin and then the day later launching his wife's coin like a scam a scam's a fucking scam
free markets or not like you can't hide behind the argument of free markets if it's an outright
scam and there's a shit ton of that going on and there is uh their interests lie in scooping up as
much money as they possibly can whilst they have the power there in the u.s they're not political
people never were like you know nor was reagan go back in the day the dude was a freaking actor
He didn't care if he was going to be red or blue, left or right. He just wanted it in the game. Same with the Trump administration. So there's definitely political class money flowing through these channels at the moment.
And whether that's being thrown at developers to do certain things, or whether that is being thrown through Bitcoin treasury companies to reverse IPO shell companies into Bitcoin treasury companies to use them as vehicles to wash money through to be able to attract people's pension money that they think they're unable to utilize.
at the same time telling the story
that all of the trapped capital in the bond market
is now going to suddenly pivot to penny stocks.
You're like, guys, no, they're not.
It's just that is not going to happen.
But your 401ks and your SIPS in the UK
is low-hanging fruit.
Low-hanging fruit.
And obviously that doesn't come into the op-return debate,
But like there's so much going on and it's just so confusing and it's moving very, very quickly.
And when I look back to when I was just completely when I was a lurker on Twitter during the block size wars, trying to figure out what the hell was going on.
It was a very unsettling time.
It's hard to build conviction in these times.
And so if you are new, you might only be two years in.
You've got a target on your back.
Your Bitcoin has a very big target on its back.
And the best thing you can do is just sit on it and cold storage and keep adding to that stack.
Reading, listening, watching the YouTube channels, whatever it is, getting to the meetups in your local area, getting to conferences, listening to the panels.
You can't get to the conference.
They're generally live streamed.
Getting into the spaces.
this is the time to triple down your effort for you know on your education i would say
yeah absolutely and you don't have to run knots but whatever you do don't run core v30
so right um interesting you know you kind of had mentioned that v29 versus v30 it's going to be
really interesting to see kind of what happens there and how this how this next bit unfolds
but yeah it's um it's it's it's definitely a turbulent time to be releasing a bitcoin art
magazine uh and and trying to maintain good relations with bitcoin artists in the space at
large and not wanting to um shoot my business project of a magazine production in the foot
it because like that that's a whole sub niche right like you said earlier there's there's
sub niches of bitcoin and some topic of bitcoin is going to resonate with you and pull you in
further so within your niche of artists does that does that debate come up a lot like are people
looking at it and do you feel like uh have you even seen a piece of artwork yet dedicated to
because there will be is there going to be a piece of artwork dedicated to like this this debate
so i made a uh actually a hand painted actually i have it right here i i'm not going to grab it i
i haven't sold it yet i have hand i did a laser cut wood and then hand painted uh it was the first
block that ocean mining mined when they upgraded to not the i forget what it was but where they
fixed the data carrier size bug and they filtered all but one inscription so i i've i may have made
the first piece of art about it um there's a um yeah no it's it's i have a spaces coming up
i think it's on the third where i'm going to be talking with some digital ordinal artist
nft people a bit about it because i was getting a little bit of um there was some complaints
uh lodged or uh what do you call it uh you know spoken a set on twitter and and there was a claim
that not supporters aren't willing to engage in like open discussion or something and then
something about how can a bitcoin art magazine just ignore a big part of bitcoin art you know
aka ordinals and inscriptions and nfts in general and so i'm gonna i'm gonna go you know i was like
let's have a space let's talk about this because i am totally open to open discussion and i you know
i'm happy to talk about it and i want to talk about it because i'm still trying to figure it
all out myself too you know and i'm just taking one step at a time doing what i feel is right
but um there's you know overall i i'm have a good relationship with most of the artists in the space
uh i think that i kind of walk the razor's edge and and toe my toe the line well well enough or
something i don't know i am i'm really i'm really nice to everybody um for the most part i mean i
get a yell a little bit on Twitter, but
overall, I'm a really nice
person. I'm nice to people.
I
follow
a bunch of people that make NFTs I don know It interesting It a little tough at times because on the one hand I very like hardcore monetary maximalist like you know and on the other hand
I'm like, well, I like, like,
that's like a really cool piece of art you made. And like,
that's actually like a cool art project. Like, Oh, like, yeah,
but I like don't agree that you like felt like you needed to store it on the
Bitcoin network. But you know, I also like, don't want to be mean to you.
So it's a little interesting at times. Overall, though, I have a pretty good relationship with everybody. I think I am more or less respected by at least the physical Bitcoin art community. And I haven't been around. I'm not the most OG by any means at all, but I've been around long enough that I've built good relationships with people.
and you know so we'll see we'll see how it all goes you know but um it's been interesting that's
for sure all right man well where can people what's going to be the best place for for them to
engage uh whether that's twitter or nosta and where will you be showcasing physical art next
so so people might be able to you know grab themselves a ticket and get along and meet you
So think what you will of Shitcoin Magazine and the Shitcoin Conference. They host the largest Bitcoin art gallery in the world. And shout out as much as I disagree with him to Tommy. He's put it, curates the world's probably largest, as far as that I know, of Bitcoin art museum in Nashville at Bitcoin Magazine headquarters.
So I'll probably be at the Bitcoin conference unless there's like some serious conflict of interest of me promoting Bitcoin art magazine there.
Then I probably won't go. But that's that's nearer to me.
I would really like to make it out to Riga. That's a dream of mine this year.
And BTC Prague, of course.
So if if if, you know, I can sell enough magazines, my goal is to do a bunch of the big conferences this year.
and display my own artwork as well as have magazines and books for sale
and promote all of the artists that are in the magazine and the book.
I don't have anything on the calendar as of right now.
So the best place to talk to me is going to be on Twitter or Noster.
You can find me on Twitter at Osanoa underscore gold.
And you can find me on Noster at primal.net slash Osanoa.
and you can find Bitcoin Art Magazine on Twitter at Bitcoin Art Mag and you can find Bitcoin Art
Magazine on Noster at primal.net slash Bitcoin Art Magazine and all those socials to the magazine
are linked at BitcoinArtMagazine.com and my own website is SovereignRemnant.com and so the best
place to talk to me about anything at all maybe you've made some art that you want featured in
the magazine maybe you want to commission a piece of art from me maybe you have a good friend or
family member that should read the simplest bitcoin book ever written because it's in my
opinion the best bitcoin primer material out there and you can get a free download of that from
bitcoinartmagazine.com it's a little education tab up in our menu and you can also order the
physical copy of that book from the website but you can come and yell at me on twitter or nostr
or dm me or comment on something if the dms are closed and i will like i monitor everything pretty
good so follow the bitcoin art mag twitter we post a constant broadcast every day of all the
art in bitcoin from the artists that are featured in our magazine excellent well done mate and yes
go grab the book and if anybody
wants to go back and listen to
that episode I did with Kisa it's a great
episode to listen to
yeah shout out
and well done
really looking forward to seeing this
in the wild and
fingers crossed for you that everything
goes smoothly from this point on with
the print and the distribution and everything
so it's
a great project
congratulations for
for stepping up.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on and thank you for writing a piece for the
magazine.
So,
you know,
anybody listening,
make sure you read Daniel's piece of writing in the beginning of the
magazine.
So he wrote,
he wrote a really special,
really sweet piece just about the intersection of Bitcoin and art.
I,
I noticed you've got some nice art on the wall behind you there.
Apex.
So you've got,
you've got,
is,
is the top one also apex?
yeah they're both okay okay i i know the bottom piece well but i but i couldn't i didn't fully
recognize the top one that's one of his older pieces yeah
oh that's amazing yeah yeah that's a i feel like that's one a little one of his like little bit
older pieces that's super sick dude um yeah i love uh love apex and um i was lucky enough to have
met him in uh the princess hotel in plucking again in uh in germany where he just passed me um a few
prints and i was like wow this is amazing so i got them uh i got them all as you can see i've got
three i'm looking at another another one up here uh his mortality died one um with uh the cathedral
kind of uh yeah that one is that's so good honestly all of his his artwork is so freaking
good i i love yeah i i he if anybody doesn't know about bitcoin apex you got to go check out
bitcoin apex art um he's uh he's his story is crazy he worked at i think he worked it was like
a supermarket chain in germany for like 10 years like i was like or it was something it was something
crazy like that and he was like i guess like i don't know what he did there but like you know
like like at a supermarket i think like you know like check out shelving stuff like like facing
items on a shelf kind of stuff at least that's what i imagine and then he he he like sold some
i guess some bitcoin art and then told his boss i'm gonna quit to make bitcoin art full time and
Now that's what he does.
With a pencil.
One of the most proof of work level
Bitcoin artists out there.
You recognize the t-shirt?
I wore this.
Of course.
We got to plug Madex.
Absolutely.
This is Madex's t-shirt for BTC Prague this year.
Oh, that's so freaking cool.
I don't know if you can see.
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
Be careful wearing that shirt, though.
Don't wear it too much.
That shirt might want to frame it and put it on the wall kind of shirt.
Yeah, exactly.
It's very cool.
This art stuff, we will look back in many years to come and think, damn, bye.
And I think that's what I wrote in the piece.
I really look forward to the future generations looking back at the artwork now.
like what was going on back then what was what were they thinking this is why i asked about like
any opera turn artwork which you've already made because this will be studied right uh and um yeah
it's uh i wonder if there's any block size art
it's it's uh it's uh it's interesting because i feel there's we don't have really i mean there's
a couple of Bitcoin musicians out there, like shout out to Roger 9000. And what's her name?
I feel so bad. I can't remember. It's on the tip of my tongue. But she's super sick,
rapping about Bitcoin and stuff. Rare Skrilla, who's featured in the Bitcoin Art Magazine
and a super OG Rare Pepe artist fake Rare Pepe artist He actually been making Bitcoin music And I think he made a Bitcoin album back in 2014 So he made some super OG Bitcoin music But I feel like the Bitcoin movement
doesn't have a whole lot of rock stars as far as music.
But it does have a bunch of super sick visual artists
that have made a lot of work about it.
So it'll be really fascinating someday
for people to look back.
And shout out Shawmarie.
I like your little Shawmarie plushie on the shelf there.
yeah so we we've actually got uh charlotte she she we we've got in the bitcoin art magazine a
drawing from charlotte so no way yeah we have a in the back we have kids on the block and we have
a drawing from charlotte from chamarie and then sassy nakamoto um who is uh cory swan's daughter
so i've got a drawing from uh charlotte and sassy nakamoto they're the kids on the block for the
genesis edition so if you're yeah if lauren ever makes some bitcoin art let me know and we'll
feature it in the in the magazine that's amazing her friend did her friend uh she she's making uh
some some hand-drawn art and she sold a piece for like 100 bucks i think i don't know whatever it
was uh i don't want to pull numbers but she sold a piece of artwork at a bitcoin meetup we had in
bristol which was the first time joe brian ever gave his uh his his presentation of what's the
problem uh and a little yeah uh so yeah there's so much so much cool stuff going on uh so we should
leave on a positive note and just know that bitcoiners are out there building and uh everything's
gonna be fine uh look forward to uh just hang on to your stack that's what we can do and look
forward to the next 10 years don't buy any art as an investment i'm working against myself you
You should definitely buy Bitcoin Art Magazine because it'll probably be worth a lot of money someday.
No, I'm just kidding.
You shouldn't buy anything other than Bitcoin as an investment.
And definitely don't take any loans against your Bitcoin.
I'm going to take it from you, man, and not do that.
Because I saw that one recently that was talking about sub 7% or something.
I don't know.
All the terms sounded real good.
I was like, huh.
I'm like, this is going to be a thing.
That would be pretty cool.
You never have to sell your Bitcoin.
You just borrow against it.
This was like a week ago.
So yeah, there's a lot of really great, ferocious and amazing honey badgers out there all over the world.
Core or knots or whatever, we're all here for making the world a better place.
Well, all the good Bitcoiners are and we're out here.
100% mate
I do believe in a bright glowing orange future
so
perfect place to leave it
well thanks for coming on
and I'll let you go get some sleep
it's very late
or very early where you are
I'll catch you later
thank you for having me on
you're welcome
well there you go guys
thank you Asenoha for coming on the show
if you want to follow along with their journey
just follow on X or Noster
you go find it
It'll be in the show notes as well at Bitcoin Art Mag on X or Twitter.
If you still insist on calling it Twitter, I do most of the time or get to the website, Bitcoin Art Magazine dot com.
Honestly, it is something of pure beauty.
And I'm really looking forward to seeing it and feeling it in the wild.
So reach out to us and know how.
Find out if they're going to be getting along to any of the conferences next year as well.
Whether you'll be able to get...
There's a whole different line of prints that you can get.
We touched on this.
If you want the Patrons edition Bitcoin art, hardcover book.
Limited edition of 21 copies only in hardcover.
You can have the part with $2,100.
Obviously, you can go ahead and pay in Bitcoin.
and it looks as though on the website at the moment there's only two in stock so 19 have already gone
you can get another hardcover one of 121 the gold foil cover limited edition of 210 so they're
covering a lot of bases and i know there's a lot of collectors out there that are going to find this
really really interesting and like i said at the beginning of the show i'm really finding
a lot of inspiration through all of the art and artists that are coming out and and whether that
is physical artwork or whether that is a dance or whether that is the written word or whether that's
going to be some kind of theatrical play who knows where this leads what bitcoin does once you start
stacking and once you keep on learning about it it starts rewiring you back to what you were meant
to be after entering this realm or world uh that's what it does it returns you to you because you can
start cutting through all of the shit all of the fiat lies all of the negative energy around just
using fiat currency because you know a uh a philosophical look at you know what is a medium
exchange it's a way for us to communicate value to each other we are using a medium exchange that
we're forced to use in the first place which is backed by nothing like in fact it's backed by debt
it's backed by less than nothing it's backed by minus billions of dollars think about that like
The negative, crappy frequency energy attached to that bullshit
is what we are using to buy our goods and services
from people out there in the economic realm that are trying their hardest
just to build a business, just to keep food on their table and shelter over their heads.
Bitcoin fixes this.
And then Bitcoin, once you start grokking Bitcoin and preserving your wealth in Bitcoin,
the rewiring begins so if you're new here that sounds a lot like mumbo jumbo woo woo shit and
you would never have caught me saying those words even five years ago most likely but it creeps up
on you it certainly does and when you got guys like Casanova putting their heart minds souls and
energies into the different pieces of art like you can't help but get inspired by that and listening
to the stories of the artists so that's a great shill for bitcoin art magazine thank you so much
for coming on and for everything that you are doing for bitcoin asanoa i look forward to catching
up with you again one time soon uh finally uh to leave it on a high note get out there meet your
Bitcoiners, download Club Orange today. You can connect with people as soon as you download the
app. Get out and meet Bitcoiners in real life. Get off the socials, get into the realm of the
meatspace. You will not ever regret doing that. Shout out to Relay. Thank you so much for your
continued support. Well done on gaining your Mika license in Europe. That's R-E-L-A-I.ch
forward slash bitten download the app today and start stacking you can reach out to relay private
and they will help you get your pensions moved across into bitcoin in a sensible manner they
will help you get your businesses set up to accept bitcoin as well bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten
for your signing device take control of your bitcoin and get over to paywithflash.com to make
sure that you can get yourself set up to accept bitcoin for your goods and services that's that
thank you so much for listening guys and i'll catch you on the next show