Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten Podcast.
Joining me today is CEO and founder of Orange Pill App, which is now Club Orange, Matteo
Pellegrini. Matteo started Orange Pill App two years ago. It's the age-old story of boy
falls in love with Bitcoin. Boy loses all friends. Boy's family roll eyes at him and give him side
eye at dinner table and beg him to stop talking about Bitcoin. Boy ends up very lonely and depressed
and anxious. So Boy starts an app for Bitcoiners to meet each other all around the world. And this
is what happened that's the very basic story and very very common story in the bitcoin world where
you are the one falling down the rabbit hole and nobody around you is falling down with you or even
interested in listening to you or looking at you anymore we've all experienced it so matteo in true
entrepreneur spirit and he has a background of entrepreneurship he went and started his own app
to meet people and started a Bitcoin meetup.
And his meetup is one of the longest meetups
running on the West Coast, I believe, of the US.
And that's a weekly meetup on a Saturday morning
where they meet up for a coffee somewhere in LA.
You can find all of these details on Club Orange.
I almost said Orange Pillab.
In fact, at the advisory meeting last night,
we were talking about the rebrand
and how long it takes for your mind to switch.
I mean, we've all experienced this.
If you were on Twitter, which is now X, I still call it Twitter,
and we are God knows how many moons did that change.
So we get very sticky to these names.
So if you've ever shilled Orange Pill App to anybody,
I'm sure you've made the same mistake.
It is Club Orange now.
There is a very good reason for the rebrand,
and we get deep into the weeds as to why Matteo felt it was necessary
to change the name.
And yeah, believe it or not, there's a lot of science behind it.
So before we get into the episode, I'd just like to give a big shout out and a thank you, as always, to the continued support from Relay, Bitbox and Pay With Flash.
So what do these companies do? So Relay, R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash Bitten.
Been around for many years. This is the place for you to download the app from the app store across Europe and start stacking sats.
and you are in control of the sats that you stack.
By design, you have your own self-custodial wallet built into the Relay app.
So at point of sign up, you will be taking note of those seed phrases,
those words that you will need to write down.
If this is all new to you, please don't panic.
Please don't worry.
It's not that difficult.
All you have to do is write down the words and keep them somewhere safe.
Make sure you keep your words safe.
Do not take a picture of them.
Do not put them on a Google Drive.
Do not write them in any kind of digital form
because you just open yourself up to being hacked one day.
This is as basic as it gets.
This is self-custody 101.
You can get a lot crazier and get into the multisig,
but please keep it simple, stupid,
especially if you're just starting.
If you've not got a hardware wallet
and you have been stacking for a little while now,
it's time to take control of that Bitcoin.
Get it off the exchange or the app,
whatever you've been using.
If it's not under your control, it needs to be.
So get over to bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten.
Make this a New Year's resolution.
Up your Bitcoin knowledge around self-custody.
And if you've not, like I said before,
if you've not just done the simple basics
of getting your keys in your control,
this is the place to start now.
bitbox.swiss forward slash bitum is the best place for you to go there's lots of educational
resources over there as well if you want to look around at different hardware wallets be my guest
my good friend btc sessions has lots of tutorials over on his youtube channel so you can just go
there and watch ben talk you through it fast forward him slow him down speed him up cut to
the exact point you want to do it whatever just follow his tutorials but just make sure you get
yourself custody bitcoin that is the game here paywithflash.com is the place for you to go if
you want to start accepting bitcoin for your goods and services it's so easy the tools that we have
our disposal now going into 2026 compared just to going into 2020 is night and day so use them
go and check them out paywithflash.com is the best place for you if you want to start
accepting Bitcoin for your goods and services.
And finally, Orange Pill App, now Club Orange.
Hit the link in the show notes.
Listen to this episode.
Then come find us on the app and interact with us.
We're looking forward to it.
Enjoy this rip with Mateo.
Now, I'm Mateo.
We are recording.
And first thing to do here is open a beer.
Okay.
Because first, you know, it is five o'clock here in the UK.
and we are celebrating the relaunch.
And whilst I pour this, Lauren, you're going to ask the first question?
I was going to say I'm going to do ASMR.
Why did you change the name Orange Palette to Club Orange?
That's the whole podcast, guys.
Just one question.
Why did we change the name?
Well, you know, it's number one.
honestly the real reason is because my wife
have claimed
that she came out with the name
and I could not allow that
so I had to change it
I'm just kidding but she does claim that she came out
with Orange Fula
might be true, might not be true, I don't remember
but you know Orange Fula
was a little challenge
it has some challenge
in the name
you know the word pill
was not great
but mostly it's because
I realized that
except Orange
Peel and App
was getting misspelled all the
time in all kinds of ways
and you know
at some point I was like you know this is a
problem because then you don't if you go to the
App Store and you know you write
the wrong name then nothing comes
up and so you know
that's kind of the short I'm sure
we're going to go deep dive but
you know that's kind of the short reason so some people lauren were searching for orange peel app
p-e-e-l which makes sense it's easily easily misheard and you know it's a global app right so
uh people are talking to each other in perhaps non-native tongue uh so yeah it was and i don't
think you can get club orange wrong does this somehow make it less of a dating app then or
dating app what made you think it was a dating app
who gave you that idea
your father
oh man
honestly if you remove peel
it might be more of a dating app
oh man
some people thought it was a pharmacy app
you know
or are you just joking I can't tell
it's the I don't know
did you see the AI video that we made
with a rebrand
you know
I did
I didn't
find it
yeah
it's
yeah you know
it could sound
as a pharmacy
kind of like
you know
if you don't know
anything
like what is this
thing right
so yeah
still not
living up
or maybe it is
we'll find out
although
do you know
people have been
married
yes
two marriages
one baby
I think.
Well,
so one marriage
and one baby
on the way.
No,
I think it's by now
it must be out.
And
second one,
maybe third,
there's,
you know,
there is romance
brewing
in Club Orange.
There's definitely
been a proposal,
right?
Perhaps not
another wedding?
Not yet,
but
probably soon.
I don't want to
jinx you for them.
Matteo
has some insight
info yeah that that's so cool like you know all joking aside when when you did pitch this to me
originally like two years ago uh because you just had your two year birthday uh i would thought like
yeah bad idea man like dating out for dudes bitcoin grinder uh and i know a lot of other
vcs thought that as well uh but you went and launched it anyway and here you are two years
late to almost 20,000 down 20,000 active users how many downloads 95 almost a hundred thousand
yes yes mate that's amazing and still bootstrapped right you know we raised some money you know we
raised some money but you know nothing you know nothing major so mostly yeah mostly bootstrap yes
I mean revenue, you know, there's this thing called revenue.
Amazing concept I know What do you do with that revenue Would you sweep some of that revenue into Bitcoin Perhaps Wow does that make you a Bitcoin treasury company I hope not
There you go. Good old fashioned, just run a business, a profitable business,
take X amount of that percentage each month and stack sats with it. Yeah, what can you share with
about the SATs situation on the Club Orange balance sheet?
Well, it's public.
We tweet about it.
Actually, the latest update, I think you're going to love it, 6.15.
No way, really.
You didn't know that?
Oh, no, that's amazing.
I literally, like, oh, I want to tweet.
you know i want to get to 615 right i don't think we would get there because you know price kept
going up and then i bought it and then the price crashed next day but at least i got a tweet so
i'm proud of that but yeah 16 6.15 bitcoin all right american hodl i know you're listening
where are you brother come on come and invest now we've hit the number 6.5 at least join you know
At least join Hoddle.
I mean, he's a sociable guy, right?
Yeah.
He likes hanging out and meeting people in real life because,
I mean, this is going to be a big topic for 2026, I think.
I think everyone's just sick and tired of the algos
and being, you know, force fed information.
Everyone's sick of Twitter, obviously.
People are Noster Curious.
what I've noticed is they come, then they go,
and then they're back to Twitter,
and then Twitter goes down for whatever reason.
Then they come back to Nostra, then they go again.
But there is more and more people,
more of our community ending up on Nostra.
But then you get to the conferences,
and you get to the events, and you get to the meetups,
and there's so much better than anything,
anything you can do online.
Yes.
I mean, it's, my thesis is that, you know, humans have only been online for 25 years, when you think about it, literally, like, let's say 2000, right?
Maybe less, because, you know, in 2000, there was no social media.
But let's say 20 years.
Let's say 20 years.
I still think you're being generous with 20 years there.
Yeah, exactly.
Because not everyone was on the internet either, right?
Of course.
They were doing a lot of this.
Of course.
but you know
humans have been around for 200,000
years right so 20 years
out of 200,000 is 0.01%
whatever it is
so I think like if you look at
20 years from now
my prediction is that very few
humans will be online
hopefully we are all alive to check
that prediction
Lauren will be
so let us know
let us know
it's interesting
to frame it that way you're totally right uh that we've only been online for 20 years
that's right that makes me feel old but i'm young at the you well you were born into the internet
but what do your friends think about like what do you think about what we're talking about here like
in real life connections versus online connections well just in real life connections are usually
much better but i do know a friend that had a friend online and then they actually met up
and it didn't go as expected but for both of them hang on is it a date no no it was like a full like
two weeks in canada and then they met up and it wasn't worth it so it like really does you really
gotta pick and choose your right ones but real life meetings are way better like you actually can
connect with the person on a much higher level so this is a friend of your age right yes so that
means she's built a relationship with someone online in kind of had they even facetimed each
but even then so her mother obviously has to take her yeah or father yeah two weeks yeah in the
person's family's home yep weirdness yeah that's bad yeah that was really bad okay he like cried on
the way back from the taxi because it was like horrible it was not a poor thing you know learn
your lesson don't build intimate relationships online first unless you're from pub orange
Yeah, go for a coffee.
Don't fly to a different country.
Yeah, it's wild.
You know the first memory I have of the internet?
I'm 41 now.
But in Italy, we didn't get it in 2005, 2006, 2003.
Something like that.
You know the first memory I have of the internet?
It's this video of a kid in America talking to a kid in Tokyo.
And it's like, wow, you know, I'm talking to somebody in Tokyo.
That's my first memory.
You know, that's why we, you know, that's why humans, like the question is, why did humans go online?
What was the reason?
I think it's because we wanted to connect to people that you will never meet.
You know, like, you know, this kid in the US talking to this kid in Tokyo.
But now, with AI, it's like, you know, I use AI all the time.
I have friends that are building AI companies.
So I see the frontier of AI.
And it's like, there are all these tools that can tweet for you,
they can send them for you as pretend to be human.
And you don't know that it's not you.
eventually, here's my prediction
that, I don't know, maybe one year or two years
from now
you won't be able to tell
if you're talking to me or my
AI agent right now
on a call
and that's I think it's the end of the
I think at that point it's like
what's the point of being online?
Like you know
we can send my AI agent to your agent
and then they will schedule
maybe for us, hey
this guy is really cool
you guys should meet in real life or you should you know i think that's where we're going um and
so at that point then humans i think humans are gonna retreat to their natural habitat
which is like the pub the bar you know the beach uh the eye king this this the stadium
you know all these things that we use i mean you you remember obviously uh that's how it work and
I think that's where we're going.
It's a trend.
I think long-term, being online would be like,
oh, humans were online for a while.
Like CDs.
Oh, humans used to have the Walkman for like 20 years,
and then it just disappeared.
I mean, just so we're not confusing,
we'll still be using the internet,
but we won't be using it to like interact with each other
in the way that we're using it right now.
Obviously, because we're going to have, well, Bitcoin, banking,
all that kind of stuff.
Well, we'll be using the internet much, much less, you know, much less.
Like what do you do on the internet?
Like you make a spreadsheet, you send an email,
you watch a YouTube video, you do some posting, right?
but when
so
when you have an AI agent
let's say
Daniel Prince AI agent
which
you will have it
because it will make you
10 times more productive
that sends better email than you
makes better spreadsheet
make better posts than you
and
at that point
like what is the value of you being
and trying to send an email
like I don't send emails anymore
like every email I send
honestly
I write it
then I go to chargegbt
improve this email
I just write like the outline
I haven't sent an email like
fully right away by me in like months
and you know
but I still have to go from Gmail
to chat GPC and then come back
to Gmail at some point Gmail is like
hey we read all of your emails
we know your
calendar you know we have your calendar
we read all your tweets
we read all of your
notes or posts you know all that kind of stuff
say this is what you should
right, you know.
And so one
way to think about it is, like,
this phase of AI is like, humans
tell the AI
what they want to do.
Right? I think the next phase
would be, AI
tells the human what
we should do. And then the last
stage, the
end game is, humans
out of the loop completely.
Like, you
create your AI agent,
he knows everything about you
he knows probably more about you than you do
and then he goes and sends an email
and sends
does the spreadsheet
and then kind of like an executive
assistant that does
that run your life online
and then he just sends you an email
hey Daniel you should check this video
hey Daniel
you should talk to this guy
I think that's the end goal
i i can't figure out whether what do you think about that lauren because i think it's one to two
years is no offense a little bit unrealistic because everyone's very addicted to their to
their phones like i i don see it happening in one to two years maybe in a longer but amount of time but the addiction is real I know because it all funny games
Like I say, like, oh, everyone's addicted, but I can't speak because I'm addicted too.
It's not good.
But the problem is I know I'm addicted, but I don't do anything on balance.
So, anyways.
So, yeah, I feel like there's a lot more people out there that's like me and that they know they're addicted.
or sometimes they don't even know they're addicted so i think it's the addiction that will really
make this a long journey to get off the internet the thing i was uh picking up on like this it
sounded dystopic but it's already happening like you know they're gonna read your emails they've
read every email you've ever sent gmail already already have right we're already there for 20
years every phone call you've ever made yep they've watched every text you've ever sent uh
they've tracked everything you've ever bought i mean we already live in that dystopian world
that's something people really need to accept i saw a tweet the other day actually that
a lawyer entered walmart in the u.s uh left all of his devices at home didn't have anything with
him went and bought something for cash and by the time he got home he had an email from walmart
asking him to leave a review about his purchase and the service that day.
He's like, holy crap.
They're paid in cash.
What is it?
Is it the store cameras?
As he walks in and then one on the till sees what he's bought
and then just sends out an automated email.
This is crazy.
We're already there.
I mean, how many times?
I don't know how many times have you talked about something and then you open especially Instagram
and it's like oh here is a business and I'm like and I'm like like you know I know they have access
to the microphone because it's somewhere in the in the in the thermal conditions
but then I watch a Jorogan interview with somebody that works at Facebook you know which is Instagram
no we don't do that it's just like path of recognition you know maybe you search something
and i'm like sometimes i talk to things that i never search in my life because somebody has
some interest that's something that's so alien from my interest and then i go on instagram
sometimes even five minutes later i really don't know how to do it uh beside just you know spying
on you um but you know yeah we live in a surveillance state especially in the u.s honestly
like uh it's you know uh people that you know people talk to me about privacy and we you know
we do this i mean we do a lot of things like no kyc you know you can use an all-star and pub too
and you know but people really don't realize like if you have a like in the u i'm talking
for the US. Probably the UK is even worse
actually. I don't know.
If you have a phone number
and if you have a carrier
that it's like
I don't know. What do you guys have?
O2? You still have O2?
Well, Orange.
Orange, yeah. We shouldn't name them.
The guys that tried to sue you.
We'll come back to that story.
But anyway,
so here's
an...
I used to listen to a lot of
like a crime documentary many years ago.
And then they interviewed the police sometimes.
And basically, you know, like you can have a Google phone,
know anything.
If you use like a carrier, like a T-Mobile,
like a Verizon, like AT&T carrier,
they, you're tracked.
They know where you are.
They ping the tower every 30 seconds.
and then the police can use that stuff to find, you know,
if they're investigating you, they can find,
oh, you were there on that day, how fast you were going,
so they can know if you're driving or walking.
It's like, you know.
So my advice is, here's my advice.
Don't do, you know, signal.
People use signal to say things maybe they shouldn't say.
Maybe signal is encrypted, maybe not.
I mean, look who's on the board, right?
NPR president, which is like a state-owned media.
Like, do they really care about privacy?
Maybe, maybe not.
I don't know.
My advice is like,
behave as if everything you say online
is one day is going to be published.
And then, you know,
then it doesn't matter what you're using.
I think that's the best advice
instead of like, oh, you know, yes,
and I'm using this app,
which I think is private.
and then I say things that
might come back and hunt me one day.
So,
you know,
yeah, we live in a surveillance state.
It is what it is.
My AI agent
can go and
can do stuff for me
while I'm offline. You see what I'm saying?
I want to have my AI agent
be surveilled myself.
So you can be out for a walk in the park
or spending time on the beach
with your family.
No devices with you.
The AI agent is working for you at home.
They're sending email, they're doing spreadsheet,
they're going on a podcast.
You see what I'm saying?
Then you create a divide maybe between you as a human being
and your virtual representation.
You'd have to take your tap signer out so you can spend your stats.
So you can spend stats offline with your tap signer.
Interesting story, actually.
I was just in New York last week and I used the, uh, the hotel phone,
the landline. Uh, remember those old things?
Picked up the thing, had the cord on it, right.
To book a table at a restaurant. And she said, uh, yeah, okay, sure. Uh,
two people at seven o'clock. Uh, what's the name, Daniel?
Thank you very much. Can we take a contact number, um,
to reach you in case you're running late or whatever, you know,
not out of line so i gave her so i said well it's going to be a foreign number he said okay
that's no problem at all we'll just take it i gave her my uk number as soon as i said the last digit
she said oh okay i'll book it for daniel prince i'm like what holy crap like how on earth do you
have that i this is crazy you know a uk sim and bam straight away and it happened twice with the
two restaurant bookings that i made i'm like this is absolutely wild maybe because you're famous
though yeah famous yeah i wasn't there though so yeah they didn't know exactly and lastly if people
want to because your your point here about ai i did an interview with uh pete win and the name of
that title is called ai will pay humans with bitcoin so he's talking about the same thing
that you are like this flip is going to happen right and uh that's episode 544 if anybody wants
to go and listen to that that's with pete win uh yeah episode 544 right lauren any further questions
or thoughts or uh before you head off and do what you want to do i think i think i'm done here
i think i'm good do you like the name club orange i do all right it's it's it's nice the logo do you
like the logo yeah it was just yeah that's yeah that's better than the other one that's nicer
yeah yeah do you see what it is though it's segments of orange
and then there's one this thing right yeah well it forms a keyhole you see oh
oh so it's like that's the keyhole into like the little bitcoiner private club of weirdos
and nerds that want to go and talk about bitcoin and windmill what oh yeah
also a lighthouse also a lighthouse yeah like a lighthouse to your people yeah it's a beacon
yeah yeah look at that works in more ways than one all right well cool thank you very much thank
you thank you for having me hope you have a good podcast thank you lauren bye ciao uh so yeah to
to stick on the privacy thing mate because that is one thing that you've obviously faced
time and time again over and over for the last two years because of the nature of the app is to
connect people right it's uh to i can flick the app open and i can find who's nearby who's in the
area if there's any events i can get along to whether that's a meetup or a conference if there's
any merchants that i can go and spend my sets with and people will scream why would i dox myself and
all this kind of stuff and look if people don't want to join the app because of that that's totally
fine that's up to them right and uh it's a paid app so spend yourself where you feel most comfortable
but if you just want to explain to people like uh obviously it's not 100 private but the lengths
that you've gone to to um to make it as bitcoin ethos as possible yeah i mean number one there is
no doxing literally we don't do kyc obviously you know we don't sell bitcoin we don't you know
it's a social network so there is no kyc we can use any name you want you can use your name you
cannot use your name uh profile picture you can use any profile picture you want uh now it's been
it's been a year now that we added the nostor login so you don't even need an email you could
just grab uh by the way also if you want an email you can just grab one of these disposable email
You can log in with Nosur which is even more private than an email address I guess And the geolocation piece number number one we made it optional recently because now there a wallet you know
so you can use the app without the geolocation.
You can join group chats, you can find events,
obviously not ordered by distance, but ordered by time.
You know, we have a list of all the conferences in the world.
So there is now some value in using the app
without the geolocation.
But if you want the best experience, the full experience, you can enable the location, which is approximate, meaning it's 10 miles radius.
And then number two, we don't do background tracing, meaning once you close the app, we don't care where you are.
Because we don't do ads.
So it's like, you know, the background tracing, like, you know, what we talk about Instagram.
they have to track everything you do to serve you the ads that are more relevant to you
so they want to know oh this guy's been at ethro even though he has an open instagram
or this guy's been in paris or whatever and so we don't do any of that we obviously we don't do ads
you know it's paywall you know it's a very straightforward business model like we pay
you pay to join the network,
which has a lot of advantages.
One of these is that we don't care
about your data, honestly,
which is why,
see, this is kind of like a loop, right?
Because we don't do ads,
we don't do KYC.
Because we don't do KYC,
we don't care if you use an all-star and pub.
So it kind of like reinforced itself.
Like if you adopt privacy
as your business model,
then you can do things that most business can't do and so um and also that's probably why we've
been you know so successful because bitcoiners intuitively understand that you know if you want
to use the bitcoin network you have to pay everybody has to pay now it's like you know
now it's almost free this is one step for vbyte but um it's kind of the same logic so yeah it's
super private, you know. Also, it wouldn't, you know,
I'm a Bitcoin maxi.
In fact, I never used,
this is something that, I don't know if I ever said
that, before
Orange Club slash Club Orange,
I never used my name online.
My real name, I never used it online.
I remember this, actually.
You were a nim on Twitter when
you first reached out. I'm like, yeah.
What was the name?
Yeah, I had
Ryan
the Long Prayer.
It's like,
Honestly, I like the name Ryan.
And then I was driving when I joined Twitter.
I was driving in LA.
And I was in a street called Delonpre.
I was like, okay, that's the name.
So I'm a big, you know, myself, I'm a big believer of, you know, privacy and anonymity.
So everything we do is privacy first, you know, the distance, you can turn it off, right?
So we don't show location, by the way.
We only show the distance from the approximate location of one user to the approximate location of one other user, members, actually.
But you can turn it off, right?
So, yeah, we do everything we can to be as surprised as we can.
And I think it's the only way to do it, honestly.
It's the only way to build a social network in Bitcoin.
I don't think we will get 19,000 members if we're doing KYC and that kind of stuff.
It's just a no starter.
it yeah i hear you mate uh it's interesting you bring up nostr because if we go back a year to 18
months you had some kind of i would say doubtful thoughts towards nostr which you were outspoken
about uh on nostr and twitter how how how was that you're i mean obviously you've been a social
network so you've got something to say here how's your mind kind of uh what has it changed how's
how have your thoughts developed around Nostra so what were they to what they are now yeah um
I don't know that changed that much to be honest with you I think there is I I can see the value
of Nostra not as much as a social media platform basically as a replacement for Twitter
I don't see that much value, to be honest with you.
A lot of reasons, I don't think we need to go into that.
But I see value in having this decentralized
kind of communication layer, communication protocol
that anybody can join.
You know, there is no login.
I mean, there's login, but, you know, there's no password.
There's no verifier at the end, that kind of stuff.
I think that's like, there is a value in decentralizing
an application layer of the internet, essentially.
I don't think it's social media
the real killer use case for Nostra.
But for example, here's an example, right?
We have the largest database of events,
Bitcoin events in the world, by far.
You know, we find them, places we import them.
And then a few months ago,
we started publishing automatically
those events to Nostor.
Which means somebody can then go and take that data
and create their own Nostor.
You don't have to call it Nostor, right?
You have the data that is decentralized.
You can take that data and create a platform,
an application with the Bitcoin events.
I think that's the real value for me of Nostor.
Yeah, so we are very supportive of Nostor.
Again, login.
By the way, people maybe don't realize, when we launched the NoStore login, we had so much problem with Apple.
They didn't like that.
Also, they don't know what it is, obviously.
They don't understand.
It is not a classic.
Anyway, long story short, we had to fight to get the NoStore login into the app because they didn't want us to have it.
but you know
they're still there
we always fight
the reviewer
oh you know
you should do this
and say okay
here we go again
Nostry is decentralized
there is no company behind
blah blah blah
eventually then
we have to explain
it's kind of like
an email address
essentially
it's kind of like
an email right
it's a decentralized protocol
and you know
so we fight
you know
we have to fight
many times for
keeping the Nostry login
yeah
I mean that's kind of
my thoughts on Nostry
like social media i don't know how much valuable it is but a decentralized protocol for
information i think is very valuable cool now you mentioned a fight with apple
you had a fight with orange too you and you and the fruit guys man like what's going on
i mean a long ago now but uh yeah you know they didn't like that uh we have orange in our name
so orange for those that are listening orange is a big telecommunications company uh headquartered
out of europe somewhere i don't know exactly which different right okay all right cool so you get you
get this shitty email from some ambulance chasing copyright lawyer most likely uh basically
threatening you to take down orange pill app with this this was in a within a month of launch it was
Eight months.
Right.
Yeah.
So, well, they didn't threaten us.
They actually went to Google and Apple and told them to remove the app
because we're violating their copyright.
Now, Apple, thankfully, didn't fall for it, but Google did.
So we were delisted on the Google Play Store after eight months of being,
you know, alive.
And, you know, and then, I mean, it was honestly was a miracle that we got back in the Google Play Store in 35 days.
And I tried, I mean, I tried literally everything.
Eventually, what happened is that a journalist at Forbes sent them an email.
It's funny because, you know, I tried everything and what worked was an email from a journalist.
And then they give up.
That's crazy as it sounds.
I'm still here.
No, I'm still here.
My video is just done.
Yeah.
So what happened is we should have changed the name back then
instead of going through that fight.
Should have changed the Club Orange two years and a half ago.
Well, it was orange in the name.
That wouldn't have got them off the...
That's true.
But at least it's not the first word.
You know, there's a lot of things that, you know,
maybe we should go into like naming and branding and logo,
which is very interesting.
Yeah, there is orange.
Orange is the only thing that people wouldn't misspell in Orangeful app.
The only thing they wouldn't misspell is orange.
So we kept orange for that reason.
And also because, you know, Bitcoin, orange, it's like people get it, right?
But what are the names that we were thinking of?
So many names.
my favorite by the way was Orange
World
which guess who owns that
domain? Orange
if you go to
orangeworld.com
it redirects
to orange.com
so many names
man
so many names
you know what it's just dawned on me
I can't believe I've never thought of this before
but it's a
It's a hark back to my childhood.
And there's a company here called McVitties.
They make biscuits.
They make chocolate.
chocolate biscuits.
And one of their chocolate biscuits
is called Club Orange, man.
Must be the best.
Yeah, people will show me that.
Yeah, nice.
I can't believe I'd completely forgotten
that thing ever existed.
So I await now the lawsuit from McVitie's.
Exactly, exactly.
Well, here's the thing, honestly.
Here's the thing.
The reason why Orange found out about us
is because we apply for a trademark.
That's because obviously they're not going and, you know,
but they have an alert.
You can set an alert on the trademark database website.
So this time we're not applying for a trademark,
at least yet.
I don't know, at least yet.
We don't want to wake up a sleeping dog essentially.
but
you know
there's also a soda in Ireland
I think called Club Orange
you know
it's not
a unique name, it's not that unique
well this is something that
you were bashing your head up against
a brick wall when we were trying to
I remember you put in our group chat
we're going to rebrand
we're going to rebrand, what should we call it
uh i honestly thought you were just kidding the first week i'm like no you know he's gonna move
on from this but no you kept at it i'm like oh fuck he's for real like okay this is interesting
uh yeah that is a minefield right i mean you went down the rabbit hole of rebranding
how many words to use in the title what kind of words so do you want to give us like that learning
yeah yeah i think it's very i think it's fascinating so here's what i've learned so
basically once we decided once we decided we're gonna rebrand i said okay let me let me study
this thing all right let me study this thing so i got some books i watched some this i mean there's
some youtube videos that are incredible honestly you can learn anything in like a weekend if you
really say okay i'm gonna watch 10 youtube videos about rebranding or naming and you can find the
world-class expert that just give you the rules so naming let's start with naming there has some
there is some rules to a great name um so here they are number one the name should be ideally
one word. Not one word, like, yeah, one word, but it should be two syllables. So, Netflix,
TikTok, Facebook, Apple. So, this is the thing. So, number one, two syllables is the gold
standard. If you can get two syllables, you're already halfway there. Number two, the name
should be four letters to seven max, right?
Like Netflix, Amazon, Google, Apple, you know, you name it.
TikTok, six, Facebook, eight, you know,
that definitely below 10 for sure.
Now, our problem, by the way, Orange Pell Up is 13 letters,
let alone the misspelling, plus the misspelling.
So then the third rule is if you have to spell it out, it's a bad name.
I don't care how clever you think it is.
If you have to spell it, forget about it.
You can go to the Nasdaq.
I went there.
Nasdaq, find the top 10 of 20 companies.
Apple, Amazon, TikTok.
By the way, TikTok, as much as I hate it, I never use it.
I don't know if it once, I delete it immediately.
It's probably the best name ever.
Two syllables has repetition, tick-tock, double T.
That's another trick, like Coca-Cola, right?
That's a trick.
The human brain likes repetitions.
um yeah so the other thing is like so two syllables seven words seven seven letters
uh another thing that i found out if you start the company the name start with the letter that
is early in the alphabet it's a huge advantage apple amazon facebook google so a b c d e f g
like half of the nasdaq start with the first seven letters i think the reason is because
well you know i don't know if you know the story of uh apple the name uh so steve jobs used to work
at atari as a you know as a kid and then uh he said oh i need to find because back then you had
the telephone book right so you start with a b c and then he said well i want to have a name
that comes before Atari.
So AT, so Apple, AP.
So there's a huge advantage of naming your company
with an early letter.
So A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
You should not use the letter H.
It's the most, yeah?
Think about it.
There's almost no company that starts with the letter H.
That is successful, especially in tech.
especially in tech because h is very easy to misspell it doesn't you know you don't pronounce
the letter h it's like it's like aspirated you know what i'm saying yeah especially in france
believe me yeah especially in Italy okay the only one i can think of is uh huawei right and uh the
amount of times that must get uh mispronounced i mean yeah but how huawei it's more like a like a
b2b business than a b2c it's more like corporate than like consumer facing you know like a product
like like facebook or instagram you know or they make the phones right yes but i think that most
of the business like uh corporation buying equipment i don't know the other thing i can
think of just because you got me thinking now is yeah yeah that works that that's in your rules yeah
five five letters you know it's very short uh two syllables and uh you know that kind of stuff
uh and it always you know there's always exception to the rule like tesla is very successful start
with the t uh but if you look at the you know bmw ford so here's another rules by the way
there are five letters that makes your name unique.
So we should start by saying, what is the role of a name?
Because that's actually the starting point.
And most people think the name should tell what the company does.
And it's the opposite of that.
The name should not tell what the company does, ever.
Why?
Because as a founder, like I built the app,
I built the product.
The product that I built
only exists in my mind.
Like we have 19,000 members,
which means there are 19,000 versions
of Club Orange.
Everybody has his own ideas
about what the app does.
And so you don't want to box people
into a name.
Like Apple doesn't call itself
cool computers
or Tesla doesn't call itself electric cars.
The name, it basically should evoke an emotion
or should have some, it's kind of like a canvas
where the user can paint whatever they want.
So like, what is Apple?
If I ask you, what is Apple to you?
Well, if you didn't know, you wouldn't know.
Same with Nike, right?
You would not know.
even if you were to see like the nike logo you'd have no idea what they would do like exactly
what's the most yeah but it's one of the most iconic logo ever yep um because and then we can
talk about logo next but so basically the name should just be a canvas for the user
to paint a picture that they have in their mind about your product your company
and that's rule number one rule number two is that it's it's obviously it's it's easy to remember
so it has to be short and rule number three has to be memorable now how you make a name memorable
there's actually a secret there's five letters that makes names memorable which is z y k w and j
If you can put these letters in your name, like Amazon as the C, Facebook as the K, Netflix as the X.
I forgot about X.
X, it's a great name.
SpaceX, FedEx.
Because the human brain, the more rare is a word, the easier is to remember that word instead of A or B or C.
Because C is such a common word.
I think C is the most common word, by the way.
So you had to put some memorable, you know, it's basically like,
like if you go to a cocktail party and if you wear something that is unique,
you're going to be more memorable than everybody else.
It's the same, same idea with the name.
You put one of these X, Z, Y, K, W, your name is going to stand.
It's going to be easy to remember.
and so you know we couldn fit any of those letters in club orange you know and what about acronyms because obviously there some huge ones like bmw ibm yeah so that another problem by the way that that was another problem with orange
club that is so long that people start doing uh acronym acronym i don't know how to say that acronym
yeah opa opa yeah which sounds cool yeah then you type opa nothing come up yeah right you can't find
anything so that's a huge problem in fact you know at some point i was starting to use in opa
and then i watched some video that's what's like the beginning i watched some video about naming
i was like you don't want to do that until your brand is so popular like ibm is is actually
international business machines something like that but now you know after after a while you
know everybody knows that you know it's it but you don't want to use a short version of your name
until your name is so dominant in the brain of the user.
So OPA was a huge problem for us.
Another reason why we had to change the name.
Yeah, acronym, it's not good to start off.
It's good after a while.
Actually, no, it's never good, honestly,
because that means your name is too long.
That what it means is that the name is too long.
the human brain doesn't want to spell all your name
so it starts
shortening like Tesla
or Apple or Amazon there's no economon
for that because the name is short
right
and so
yeah that's not a good thing
if people start using economon
you know you have a problem
anyway so that's on naming
so now we can go to logo
so what is a logo
what does a logo do
So the logo, again, should not tell what the company does.
You know, shouldn't be...
Again, the most, I think, in my mind, the two most popular logos
is Nike and McDonald's.
Like, if you think of logos, Nike and McDonald's is, like,
probably the most famous one.
Obviously, McDonald's doesn't have a burger in it,
doesn't have fries in it.
So the rules for a logo that I've learned is, like, one,
a five-year-old should be able to draw it.
If a five-year-old
cannot draw it, it's not a good logo.
So Nike,
McDonald's, right?
Two, it should evoke
an emotion.
You look at the logo, it should feel something.
That's really the goal, right?
Because then you are emotionally attached to that logo.
So it has to be
simple, obviously.
Again, that a five-year-old can draw it.
and
and so you know what happened with
we struggled with the logo a lot
because I hired somebody
he did something, he wasn't a big corner
so it's another thing that I've learned
it's much easier
to work with big corners than non-big corners
when you have a big coin company
because they already know the
ethos, they already know
the community, so eventually I found
a guy in Sweden
his name is Chris
and he made like literally at the last minute
it's like I'm not convinced of this
logo like I really didn't feel
good about the logo so I found this
guy and he made a login like a weekend
which was the orange slices
right the original
and then I'm like
you know orange
club orange I don't know about that
so I start playing with the slices
and
then I remove one
and so one thing to do is like you can remove
removing is better than adding.
And, you know, oh, this was cool, you know,
like an aperture to the club,
like a keyhole of the, you know, of the club
or a keyhole to the community.
And so we end up with this logo,
which I think is actually a great logo
now that I've, you know, that I spent some time with it.
The more I spend time, actually, the more I like the logo.
But yeah, so logo, it's like, again,
And the mistake that most people do is like, oh, the logo should tell what the company does.
No.
In fact, McDonald's is a much bigger company than Burger King because Burger King has burger in the name and in the logo.
I promise you that makes a difference.
And so that's kind of, you know, that's kind of the all I've learned about logo and branding and naming.
That's cool.
And I got to meet Chris in Manchester.
Oh, yeah.
We were introduced, Rick Messy introduced me because he's been helping Rick out with branding of the lottery that Rick's just launched.
And yeah, he said, yeah, I've done some work in the Bitcoin space.
I'm like, OK, cool. Where have I seen you work?
He's like, oh, I've recently done like a design for Orange Palab.
And I'm like, what? That's you? That's amazing.
He had no idea that I was, you know, part of your advisory board.
So that was a nice touch.
and then i put him in touch with the bitcoin racing guys because uh we're like dude do you
want to design a race car this would be cool oh yeah so i hope something comes of that and uh yeah
shout out to chris uh is it sovereign designer is that his twitter handle or something like that i
think it's yes yes yes yes right okay good i think i've got the right shout out there uh yeah all
Right. So that is super interesting shit.
What should we move on to next?
I think because you're rolling out new features all the time,
hard to keep up with the ideas that you're having and the ability that you
guys have now to get straight to market within weeks,
like you float an idea, it gets pinged around the chat.
It gets honed a little bit.
and then it's like wow okay that's already live like what how the hell are you doing that
ai honestly yeah it's a game changer which one well for coding the best one is clode
clode.ai it's you know that's that's a specialty it's just uh mind-blowing uh we honestly this is
crazy but we have less developer now than a year ago and we're shipping so much faster
I didn't fire them
by the way I didn't fire
they're like
founders essential of the company
but I found this guy
on the app by the way
I found this guy on the app Quentin
it's a funny story because he was
in Argentina when I met him
you know people
all the time they message me on the app
hey you know I'm a developer
if you ever need help
let me know I get this message
at least once a week.
And I used to say, oh, great, you know, you're ready on the app,
so we know what we do, let's work together.
What I've learned is that, this might sound harsh,
but what I've learned is that great developers,
you don't find them on the street,
meaning they're really working at some company,
which is also why, you know, at the highest level of software companies,
they don't hire, they poach from one company to another
because you won't find a great developer unemployed.
It just doesn't work like that.
So anyway, so this guy messaged me
and I said, yeah, sure.
You know what I do.
Usually I give them a little project.
All right.
It's okay.
Let's do a project.
Let's see how it goes.
And although I'm not technical myself,
I've worked with so many developers in my life,
maybe not thousands, but hundreds.
that I can tell if you're a good developer or not,
even though myself, I can't code, right?
So anyway, so I give a project,
and he did it in like one day or two.
I said, okay, good job.
Let's keep going down that path of more little projects.
Eventually, I said, okay, you're pretty good.
And so the funny thing is like I told my wife,
oh, I found this developer in Argentina.
She works for a big tech company.
So yeah, we use developers in Colombia.
you know, it's famous
it's Latin America
it's famous for great developers, they're obviously
cheaper and
they work really well, I said, oh okay
that's interesting, I would never think
there are good developers in Argentina
being Italian
I know that most Argentinians come from
Italy, you know, it's like
I'm gonna lose all the
Argentinian members now
anyway, so here's what I
then one day I'm like
I'm talking to this guy, Quentin.
And it's like, oh, you know,
I see a different background in the image,
in the video.
I said, oh, did you move house?
Yes, I mean Chile.
I'm like, Chile?
I thought you were from Argentina.
Oh, no, no, I'm from France.
I'm like, what do you mean from France?
So for months, I've been talking to this guy in Argentina.
Essentially, it basically was a nomad life.
So as a French guy,
actually, all of the developers are European,
the Italians and French.
and well I had a US one
anyway so what happened
is this guy is very young
never
done anything with mobile in his life
never
and then it's like okay you know
let's work
come full time work for us
so I flew into Los Angeles
I want to meet you before I hire you
we went to all the places
and then I'm like okay great
now you're full time so you have to learn
how to do iOS and Android
developing.
The guy had never done anything like that.
It's also like web infrastructure, stuff like that.
And then he just
did it
with AI.
Essentially from
nothing to pretty good.
I mean, you've seen the features,
the work.
I think he built
the wallet. Yeah. He built the entire
wallet by himself.
the infrastructure
I mean by itself with AI right and so yeah super fast work i don know 25 hours a day i don know how he does it and yeah we ship all the stuff uh actually something that will be out by the time
this podcast is out is video messages which i think is going to be really cool i'm already
addicted to that thing um okay so we got the wallet right he shipped the wallet that was
incredible that was and it really worked really really well so well in fact that you had to up
your uh your inbound and outbound liquidity because like people were using it immediately
well the geozapping honestly the geozapping like 97 percent of our uh activity on the wallet is
geozapping is the best we had uh so we launched a wallet 10 months ago actually funny story i will
never forget in my life when i launched the wallet well i know why because i was literally at the
hospital while my wife was giving birth to my son amazing she's on the she's on the bed i'm on the
chair and i'm like click and the newsletter uh you know it's crazy story but anyway so we launched
a while 10 months ago and we have done 3.2 million transactions in 10 months and 97 is
geo zapping so geo zapping essentially is you can type a city a country a continent now we can
even do zip codes you can tell whatever you want that is that is put a radius in right uh when i
When I was in York, I typed in 200 miles and I zapped everybody within 200 miles of me to say, listen, if you've missed it, there's an event tomorrow at PubKey.
Be great to see you.
Like this is it's and I attach like 21 sets to it or whatever it is.
It's such a great feature.
I think it's the most underrated or under talked about feature released in Bitcoin this year.
Geo zapping because it's it's very much the the idea of hash cash.
Right.
I can now send, I can mass send a message across Orange Pill app, but I have to attach some value to that.
And it's up to you as the receiver, whether you even open it or not, but you get the stats.
You get the stats.
It's amazing.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we accidentally, I think, built an advertising platform on Bitcoin.
You know, we have companies like Unchain is very active.
You know, they send the blog posts, YouTuber, they promote the YouTube channel.
Obviously, it's all about Bitcoin.
Yeah, so GeoZaping, yeah, it's been amazing.
It's been amazing.
It's basically kind of a novel application on the Latin network.
So very proud that, I mean, by the way, a user told me,
hey, wouldn't it be cool that you can sub people based on their location?
Oh, actually, yes.
Let's build that.
And, yeah, so the wallet, it's very cool.
By the way, so people that don't know, it's a regular lighting wallet.
So you can use it to bring voices, to kind of cool.
Yep.
I've got beers with it at BTC Prague.
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, it's a regular lighting wallet with these extra features like geode zapping, proximity zapping, which is what you described.
you can type a distance up everybody in your proximity and also we put it like everywhere
like group chat you can zap everybody in a group chat uh event you can zap everybody that's going
to an event so we we're doing phase zap you if you can oh yes i was gonna get onto that because
then came the video calls uh well first of all was just the voice calls right yeah and then became
video calls and then the video calls that was the best when you when you video called me and said
You write, Princey, watch this.
And you tap the screen and I get the little lightning strike just like float up.
I'm like, whoa.
And then one sat turns up in my wallet.
I don't know what people are going to use it for, but it's fucking cool and fun.
So you can just build things.
You can just build things.
Yeah.
We have also tap zap, meaning now you can double tap.
It used to be one tap on a message and you send a sat.
which is like nobody's going to complain for one side.
No, actually they do.
So now we change it to double tap.
So it's not accidental.
So if you double tap on a message, you send one side to them.
It's kind of like likes, but with value.
Yeah, I mean, there's so many way to people on Club Orange
and people love it.
Sometimes people ask me, hey, why am I receiving all these sides?
You know, there's this thing and that.
my prediction is in like 10 years from now somebody will like forget they have a membership
on club orange you know whatever they go back to the was a way i have i could buy a car
you know when bitcoin is like one million dollar or two million dollars and they have like
10 000 sats that that's true right because even somebody that's not gone through the login the
full login process or how does it work yeah as long as you have an account you can receive sats
as long as you have an account yeah you might not be active but you have an account yep and if you'd
have paid for that year for example that year that you'd have paid for all of those sats that you'd
have received from geos apps people promoting events or whatever would land in your account
so you just yeah you're right man people are gonna find those sats yeah it's gonna be like uh like a
treasure chest that you have in your basement you forgot i had oh i had this gold coin from
30 years ago and i was so much more the same thing is going to happen with these sats in i don't know
five ten years you know my wife is on the app and obviously she doesn't use it and i actually
you know i actually use her to see her balance because she doesn't use anything so all the
that she receives from GeoZap.
So I use that as a measure of like,
okay, if you don't use the app at all,
but you are on the app,
like how many stats are you getting?
She has more than a thousand stats.
And we launched it, what, 10 months ago.
So it's like, you know,
and more people are signing up every day
and more companies sign up every day
and more people are learning about GeoZap every day,
which means, yeah, GeoZap is going to be a,
yeah, it's going to be a huge deal.
Yeah.
no I think it's a great great feature
all right we're on GeoZap
we're on FaceApps, we're on Wallet
by the way before I forget
GeoZap is also amazing
for one
use case
natural disaster aid
because you know
basically if you're
so let's say there is a
says there is a earthquake in Los Angeles
actually let's say there is a fire
in Los Angeles
as a random
tool. Now you can
go on the app
from anywhere on earth
and you can type Los Angeles
and you can send SaaS
to people in Los Angeles
without asking for an invoice,
without asking for a GoFund page,
which is very interesting
use case
that you can unilaterally send SaaS
to somebody based on their location
without them doing anything.
So I think also the
National Disaster Relief Aid,
it's also going to be a huge use case.
Or you can just donate to,
I don't know,
a country in Africa or whatever.
Hong Kong,
I don't know,
Hong Kong may be not a good example.
But, you know,
so here's the best example.
Canada.
Remember the trucker convoy?
Remember the mess
that is the...
You could, obviously, we didn't
exist back then, but
you could have gone to the house, say, Canada
or a city where there was the...
You can just send us out
from anywhere on Earth
without being in Canada, without having an invoice.
Basically, no tracing
because, you know, there's no
tracing. The lighting is very private,
obviously, and it's
custodial wallet, so it's even more private.
It's from our node, essentially.
You know, obviously, you can withdraw
anytime to your node or wallet.
So you could have used Club Orange
to donate to the people in Canada,
to big corners, not the people,
the big corners in Canada, right?
Without, you know, BTC session,
credit and invoice.
You remember all that thing that happened?
Yeah.
I think it's a very powerful tool
for this kind of like also purpose,
not just advertising,
but also for like donating to some communities around the world.
Yeah, it's very cool, mate.
Very cool.
So how many other features have you got planned?
What are you willing to share?
Honestly, I'm writing out of ideas.
There's so many.
The guy goes so fast.
Well, you know, the big thing, the next big thing is ticketing.
so we're doing ticketing on
Club Orange, you know, we already have all the events
and we already
have, you know
most of the time, because now I can see
like pretty much
like all the big conference
one third
of the people attending
a Bitcoin conference, like BTC Prague
or, you know, BTC
Vegas or
I don't know
Baltic, like
Plan B
one third, almost one third of the people attending a conference that are on Club Orange already
because they use the up to networking to find all the side events to find the people and you know do the dinners that kind of stuff And so it kind of makes sense for us to just also also we have a wallet So it makes sense for us to add the ticketing
So very soon you'll be able to go on a conference
listing on Club Orange and buy the tickets
from within the app.
So it's a unique, it's like it's one,
it's a very streamlined experience, right?
You have a wallet with the stats.
Obviously we only do stats.
We only do Bitcoin.
There's no fiat.
So that's the biggest thing that we're going to launch, which, by the way, ticketing is such a mess, man.
There's so many variables.
I thought, you know, we built so many stuff like the wallet.
You know, the other day I was reflecting like, you know, Club Orange, to build Club Orange, I had to learn about social networks, messaging application, the wallets, how they work, the liquidity.
And I was, okay, you know, okay, ticketing, it's going to be doable.
it is doable but it's so complicated
it's probably the most
complicated things I ever built
my entire life
but you know we've done it now
so that's going to be
the next big thing
I'm sure I'm going to find more stuff to build
and
but you know at the same time you don't want to
build too many features actually
you don't want to
overload the customer you don't want to
overload the user with like
you can do this it has to be very coherent to the mission of the company well none of them have
dropped away yet right like that that's good to see like none of them well we had something that
we launched and then we removed which was called city feed right yeah yeah essentially was a way
where it was a feed because people want to be on a feed i don't know why and that's okay maybe we'll
do a feed that is geolocated,
the geofence. So you
can only post if you're inside
that city.
There was no likes, no retweet,
no comments.
So it didn't really work.
But now we have something else that's much
better actually. It's called,
I think we still call it city feed. It's basically
you can, actually it's really cool.
We call that
city feed, we call it.
But you can go in a city, let's say New York,
and then there's a little
card at the top
if you only you see if you're in that city
and you can see who's
in that city and who's been
active in the last three days
and then there is a group
chat now for each city
automatically
so you can just join the group chat you turn up in a new city
you just open the app and you can just
you don't have to join you don't have to join
it's automatic
and if you leave we remove you automatically
aha
Oh, that's why I was in the New York group.
All right.
Exactly.
There you go.
Exactly.
And now in those city group chats,
so we already have a city group chat that people have created, right?
So there's one for Los Angeles.
There's 200 people.
But there are people that are not in Los Angeles.
They joined because they were here maybe once.
So it's not very accurate.
So these city group chats are dynamic.
so we check
who's in this geofence
who's in Los Angeles
then you're in the group chat
obviously you can leave the group chat anytime you want
and then the moment you leave
we'll remove you
from the group chat
so it's basically like a digital time square
like you know when you were
a kid you go to the
you go to the park with your friends
you're either there or you're not there
and if you're not there
you don't know what's going on
so it's the same idea of that but digital uh and it's very cool and now also we're gonna
so naturally two days ago now when an event is creating that city we push it in the group chat
automatically and also when a new merchant sign up in that city they say new merchant just sign up
so you can go and spend stats, right?
So it's a more dynamic,
it's a more useful way of a group chat
because you can just be in the group chat.
It's okay, what's the next event?
The group chat is going to tell me.
I don't even have to go and look for it.
And also, you know,
we also send a message
when the event starts in 24 hours
as a reminder.
So it's a very, yeah,
actually it's kind of like
what I always wanted to build.
Like I want to know what's the next event.
I want to know what is the merchant,
without going on the group chat on Telegram
or Twitter or madeup.com or whatever it is.
I just want to know one thing.
Okay, next event.
Great.
Click.
You see all the information.
There's a group chat for the event, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So the app is becoming more proactive, essentially,
instead of just being like a repository.
Oh, here are the events.
The app would now tell you,
oh, you're in that city?
Here's the next event.
so what's the um the thing we were talking about the other night on the monthly call
your idea for like the cards oh my god yes this is i have so many temples
well this is something that's very private um so it won't be public
i don't know if we should talk about it but it's let's just say there is uh give it a little teaser
yeah teasing teasing by the way by the time this thing is out it might be already sold out i don't
know when this thing's coming out but it might be already sold out are we gonna have like a
let's say you know when you go to a club there's like a vip set there's a vip room
that only certain people can access you know cost more money let's maybe cost more money to access
so we're building something like that
in Club Orange
but not just in Club Orange the app
also in Club Orange the network let's say
maybe it's private events
that you know
that you need to have a special card
to access
yeah it's going to be called
Club Orange private essentially
it's
I don't know
it's going to be an expensive
another tier let's say
another level to the club
yeah i mean i've given up questioning your ideas to be honest just ship it if it works
i like it because i know look if there's almost 20 000 people on the app and you launch it for
there is a small people a small group of people on that app that are going to want to
connect with uh like the like-minded people that are going to be purchasing that option you know
that they're gonna be they will purchase the option purely in the knowledge that the other
hundred or so people that purchase this think already like i do yeah exactly yeah but essentially
it's like you know club orange it's a paid up right um which is obviously it's great because
you know you don't have the boss you don't have the scammers you don't have the shit corners you
know it's a very high you don't have to sell freaking data for ad of course yes exactly exactly
which by the way it would be first of all for me it's like not immoral but you know not that ethical
but it was very difficult to build like building an advertising platform is so difficult
um and so anyway so club orange is already like a paid only club right but then you could have
different level of how much you pay and what you get um and you you just you know i want to create
like a like more opportunities for people to network amongst each other you know there's a
women group chat which by the way i think is the largest it must be because the largest women group
in the world uh big corners there's 500 people in the group chat it's only women uh but there is
So there is a lighting group chat, which people now, I was checking the other day, people are using that group chat to open channel to each other.
Very cool.
Also great for educational purpose.
There is a mining group chat where people talk about mining.
And so, yeah, so I was at the gym, honestly.
I go to the gym and I get the best yes.
I should go to the gym more often.
and I said, yeah, maybe there should be another level of Club Orange.
And so, yeah, we'll see.
We'll see how it goes.
It might be a terrible view.
I don't know.
You know, you got to find out.
Exactly.
Just ship it and listen, right?
Let's see what happens.
Exactly.
Yes.
All right.
Well, I'm looking forward to that.
I think, have we covered everything?
Yeah.
I mean, the other thing that I would say that was very surprising to me
is how well received Club Orange has been.
The rebrand has been awesome.
Maybe people are just nice.
I don't know.
Generally not on Twitter, but there you go.
Also, big corners are very honest, can be very honest.
Let's put it that way.
Because I was kind of worried, to be honest with you,
there's a brand that 58,000 followers on Twitter,
18,000, it worked, right?
It worked.
and to kill that brand,
because you have to kill it, by the way.
One thing that I've learned,
if you're a brand, you have to kill it.
You don't say, oh, no, just kill it.
Either you do it or you don't do it.
So to kill that brand that has worked,
it's a big risk, you know.
It's a big risk.
So I was a little bit,
not worried, but, you know, a little bit cautious.
And then I'm like, wow, I should have,
you know I should have been more
how do you say
not upfront
But anyway, so everybody loved the brand.
Everybody loved the name.
People that come to me, oh, good job on the rebrand.
I love it.
It's much better.
Which, you know, that's what I thought.
That's why we went with that name.
But you never know how much in your head you are instead of, like,
actually getting people to tell you that.
So that was very surprising and positive.
That's the one thing you kept saying to us in the chat is, like,
this can't just be, like, 10 times better.
Yes, it has to be 10 times better.
Essentially, if you rebrand, you can't go from a good brand to a little bit better.
It has to be much better.
Or don't do it.
Yeah.
Because it's such a risk.
It's basically like getting divorced.
You know what I'm saying?
If getting divorced is not 10 times better than being married, just stay married.
That's a new tagline for Club Orange right there.
Oh, my God.
yeah it has to be a much better name a much better brand or just stay with the you know
with something that was working at the end of the day was working right
so yeah very very happy the rebrand went as well as it did better than i expected so i'm you know
very i'm very proud that you know we actually did that so the last time you came on we were talking
about uh self-conscious you know ferraris we did you knew and you made the point you're like
god damn it i should have when i felt the top last cycle i should have rolled out with some bitcoin
got myself a ferrari i'm italian after all and then sell it three years later and get more bitcoin
back well one year later really right okay but what are you still thinking about the ferrari
now you have two kids on board as well no well yeah a ferrari with two kids is not exactly
ideal no yes i will get a ferrari at some point no as an italian man you know you have to
i have to support my country somehow maseratis don't count lamborghini
Lamborghini
first of all
is owned by
Volkswagen now
it's in the Volkswagen group
Porsche
Audi
also Lamborghini
is for teenagers
honestly
some for men
yeah I would get a Ferrari
yeah
when Bitcoin is
100 million dollars
no just kidding
what's wrong with Maserati then
oh
it's
well number one
is for old men
you know
like really old men
really
to have young girlfriend
alright
I actually
I actually rented a Maserati
a couple of years ago
when I didn't have kids
to go from like a
racing with my friends in the canyons
and it had a Ferrari engine
and it was such a great sound
I don't know if you ever drove a Ferrari
it's an incredible sound
it's incredible
there's something with the sound of the engine
and men, it's like,
wow.
Incredible. I don't know.
Mazda is just like
a star of Ferrari. Ferrari is kind of like a dream
when you're a kid.
You want a Ferrari. It's kind of like
a pinnacle of cars.
Especially if you're Italian in Italy.
It's lilies. It might be
I'm not an expert in car, but
it might be the best cars ever. Most likely.
And so, you know,
yeah, I'll get one at some point.
uh yeah but i don't you're trying to time the top essentially is that what you're trying to do
no i'm not trying to do anything but like uh it was a funny realization that you you said that
if i'd have bought the ferrari at the top and then sold it i would have driven the car for a year
and then i would have enjoyed it for all of that time then i could have got i would have sold it
and bought Bitcoin back with it.
And I would have had more Bitcoin than when I started.
It's an interesting thought process.
Yeah, it's an interesting thought process.
I don't have that urge anymore because also I have a company now.
You know I busy working I have kids Even if I had a Ferrari I didn have time to drive it to be honest with you There a different life than 2021
So 126
I guess is the top for this cycle.
We'll see. Maybe, maybe not.
I didn't have any urge of buying
anything, just so you know.
So maybe it's not the top.
I don't think it's going to be the top.
But we will see.
We don't talk about price predictions here
on the Once Britain podcast.
as you all know just stack your sats take self-custody sit on your hands that's all you
need to do do that for as long as you possibly can and your life will change forever uh right
how am i going to close this down well obviously if you had one last orange pill left to give to
somebody who would you give it to and why uh is there anything else i think we've covered pretty
much everything yeah no it was good all right i think it's yeah the last orange pill what did i
last time you don't ask maybe probably i i asked this question three or four times a week i've done
580 shows you don't have a spreadsheet to keep track you don't have an air agent somebody could
somebody could get an ai agent to listen to all the ones written podcasts and create a spreadsheet
of all that would be interesting to see who the most repeated answer i mean see what i'm saying
yeah yeah mask would be rogan the pope the president of the united states yeah um they're
they're the most common let me think let me think let me think the funny you know what's the funny
thing that now i mean i don't know how orange pill it is you can't say the president of the
anymore because it's kind of already
orange peel. I mean,
it's already pro-Bitcoin,
which is kind of wild when you think about it.
Let's see.
I mean,
maybe the
share of the Fed,
I can shut it down.
I think that's the final boss.
Give it to Powell.
He's about to be replaced, right?
So yeah, force it down.
By the way, it's about to be replaced from a pro-crypto guy.
Right.
For sure.
Yeah, well, this is all the game plan right now, isn't it?
Deregulate all the things.
And, well, the Trump family are stacking Bitcoin whilst they can.
And they're suppressing the price and they're deregulating the environment.
And, like, you just watch in, like, four to six years' time and all of this plays out.
They've got World Liberty Financial now, right?
they've got Eric Trump
close to a lot of the Bitcoin
treasury companies
they are filling
their boots
yeah exactly
maybe I'll give you two honestly
I'll give you to my uncle
my uncle is the closest
family member I have I think
you know
very similar in certain respects
and it's pretty smart
it's used to teach economics
and biology
you know
and I cannot
I've been trying for maybe 10 years
probably 5 let's say 5 years
I cannot
orange pill him
it's impossible
I try everything
actually you know what happened
he
that's Coinbase my god
Coinbase is such a disaster
anyway I told him
many years ago please
buy some Bitcoin
and there was only coinbase back then 2019 2020 whatever it was and he went on coinbase
he bought some bitcoin and then a few months later he's just like solana and ethereum like why
because just the mindset of one asset they don't get it like it's all about diversification it's
like a it's it's a boomer essentially so he doesn't uh yeah i would give it to him that would
be great honestly that would be great well ship him a ferrari with uh with your neck
he's like look what my bitcoin bought you no no it doesn't matter honestly it he has seen the price
because i've been telling him since the price was like eight thousand dollars the price does not it's
not a price thing it a it a it a framework of the world that he does not accept he thinks inflation is good essentially
not a lot of inflation
he thinks a little bit of inflation is good
and
3.125 bitcoin per 10 minutes
yeah
exactly
that's inflation
oh man
anyway yeah
With a known issuance schedule?
Yeah.
Mate, so if people want to join the app,
what's the best way to do it?
If they want to reach out to you,
if they want to learn more about it,
if they want to get you across to a conference,
how can they reach out to you?
Obviously, join Club Orange
and direct message Matteo, number one.
But if they haven't done that,
then what's the best way?
Well, so cluborange.org is the website.
Club Orange on all the app store
there's also a web app by the way
you don't even need to have the app
I'm pretty active on
Twitter or X
it's my name
Mattafulequini you can find me like that
but honestly I obviously
answer every DM
on Club Orange
I have a lot of DMs
I spend a lot of time on Club Orange
it's like
I'm addicted to my own app essentially
but yeah Club Orange
join and find big corners
go to a meetup
don't worry about the prize
stack France, stack Sats
just you know
it's a better
life. We should chill your own meetup
if people want to come and actually meet in real life
yeah I mean Santa Monica, Los Angeles
I do a meetup
every Saturday at 9am
I'm probably the only
I'm the only one in the world
that have a meetup every Saturday morning
at 9am
and believe it or not
some people drive an hour
to come to the meetup
I believe it
because the same happens in our meetup here
at 9am?
we don't do 9am no
we do an evening in the pub
but people come from
they'll bus or train in
yeah that's crazy
I know this obviously
I will deal for this kind of stuff
it's wild
if you're ever in Santa Monica or Los Angeles
just send me a message
come to the meetup and you know that's uh yeah stuck friends with stack sats and investment wise
what's the latest on that front investment wise we're almost done with the round we have you know
a couple of hundred thousand dollars left uh if the investor wants to join us that'd be great
you know we have a treasury of bitcoin you know we're a real bitcoin treasury company i guess
growing fast and
building
fast.
It's an interest. Honestly, I was thinking
the other day, if I didn't
have a software company, I would
be
kind of like FOMO
in building a software.
It's the best time in the history of the
internet to build a software company
by far.
Amazing.
well thank you mate for everything you've done for bitcoin and continue to do and connecting us
in real life and uh inviting me along for the journey uh for those that don't know i just sit
on a call with a couple of other bitcoiners every month with mateo and we just have a few beers and
shit you know throw shit against the wall and see what sticks uh and you know that that's been
just a great learning journey as well to watch all of this unfold so you know a personal thank
you from me well thank you for being one of the first people in that believed in us and the mission
because it was not easy before we even launched to believe that this thing would work honestly so
thank you to you all right man well have a great weekend thanks for coming back on
thank you daniel ciao ciao thank you everybody for listening and i hope after all of that
those of you that are not on Club Orange that haven't gone and checked it out
yet will at least go over hit the link in the show notes go check it out and go
sign up for a month or two go see if it's gonna make a difference to your life
go see if you can connect with local Bitcoiners in your region this is without doubt the most powerful side of the app For years you could have been the lonely dude
Just hanging out on Twitter or NOSTA,
just, you know, flinging out Bitcoin memes,
getting involved in conversations,
but never actually meeting anybody in real life
and being just completely disconnected
in your physical meat space that is so depressing it's so depressing and it you might not even
realize it until you actually go out and meet another bitcoiner and then all of a sudden you're
like this this euphoric kind of relief it's like an elephant getting up off your chest you found
someone that thinks like you and it might not be that way on every single situation you know don't
think that you're going to think 100% about you know the same different things like you might have
wildly different beliefs outside you might support different football clubs god forbid
but you know what I mean you might have different political beliefs you might have different
health practices you might have completely different views on whatever's going on in the
world right now that doesn't matter because what you're bound by is this understanding that sound
money you know digitally finite scarce money is the only thing that matters and it's going to be
that that takes us forward so what do you have to lose you got to get out there and meet people and
if you if if you download the app and there's not someone within a town or a city or two uh check
out the events there might be an event coming up near you if not get to an event like that make that
along with what I said at the beginning of the show here.
2026 is the year for you to really grok self-custody.
If you've already done that, that's great.
Well done.
Make sure you just keep your skills sharpened.
Get to a conference.
BTC Prague, if you're in Europe,
BTC Prague is the meeting place.
That's the place to go.
That's the hotbed of Bitcoiners.
Bitcoiners come in from all over Europe
and they also come in from all over the world.
We get a lot of guests over from the US, Canada and further afield.
But it's just, I don't know, it's hard to explain.
It's just, it has the feel.
It has what you want there.
And when you see, I love meeting Bitcoiners that have gone, that turned up,
and there was a handful last year that turned up to BTC Prague for the first time ever,
first conference ever.
Some come alone, some come with their families.
and they just got the biggest smiles on their face the whole three days and they just it is
life transforming now you might feel as though i'm being a bit preachy here but
you know go test it don't trust verify get yourself a ticket you can pay in bitcoin
and make this a trip bring your family if you can and get to btc prague if you're listening
from further afield hello from down under uh to my my boys and girls down under i love you very
much over in Australia and New Zealand or if you're tuning in from Africa, South Africa,
hello. You have Bitcoin conferences all over Asia. Get to them and you will be able to find them on
Orange Pill App. And like Mateo was explaining, oh God, Club Orange. You see? You see how sticky
it is? Well, I have been part of it from the beginning, so it's very, very difficult. So Club
orange hit events and then you can scroll the events you can search whether they're nearby
or in date order and then just start planning and planning a little itinerary uh shill uh the trip
to your family if you uh can get them away on holiday just to come across and see a new city
get there a couple of days before a couple of days afterwards you get the picture but go meet
people in real life. Seriously, it's the basic human emotion that makes us feel good. We are
social animals. And moving into 2026, let's get off the damn freaking, like Lauren was saying at
the beginning, we're all addicted to these phones and our laptops and whatever else. Shut them down.
Go and see people face to face. Rant over. Episode over. Catch you on the next show.
Thank you.