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Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.

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This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can

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around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean

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for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so

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much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten Podcast.

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Joining me today is CEO and founder of Orange Pill App, which is now Club Orange, Matteo

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Pellegrini. Matteo started Orange Pill App two years ago. It's the age-old story of boy

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falls in love with Bitcoin. Boy loses all friends. Boy's family roll eyes at him and give him side

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eye at dinner table and beg him to stop talking about Bitcoin. Boy ends up very lonely and depressed

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and anxious. So Boy starts an app for Bitcoiners to meet each other all around the world. And this

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is what happened that's the very basic story and very very common story in the bitcoin world where

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you are the one falling down the rabbit hole and nobody around you is falling down with you or even

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interested in listening to you or looking at you anymore we've all experienced it so matteo in true

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entrepreneur spirit and he has a background of entrepreneurship he went and started his own app

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to meet people and started a Bitcoin meetup.

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And his meetup is one of the longest meetups

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running on the West Coast, I believe, of the US.

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And that's a weekly meetup on a Saturday morning

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where they meet up for a coffee somewhere in LA.

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You can find all of these details on Club Orange.

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I almost said Orange Pillab.

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In fact, at the advisory meeting last night,

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we were talking about the rebrand

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and how long it takes for your mind to switch.

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I mean, we've all experienced this.

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If you were on Twitter, which is now X, I still call it Twitter,

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and we are God knows how many moons did that change.

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So we get very sticky to these names.

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So if you've ever shilled Orange Pill App to anybody,

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I'm sure you've made the same mistake.

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It is Club Orange now.

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There is a very good reason for the rebrand,

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and we get deep into the weeds as to why Matteo felt it was necessary

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to change the name.

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And yeah, believe it or not, there's a lot of science behind it.

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So before we get into the episode, I'd just like to give a big shout out and a thank you, as always, to the continued support from Relay, Bitbox and Pay With Flash.

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So what do these companies do? So Relay, R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash Bitten.

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Been around for many years. This is the place for you to download the app from the app store across Europe and start stacking sats.

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and you are in control of the sats that you stack.

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By design, you have your own self-custodial wallet built into the Relay app.

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So at point of sign up, you will be taking note of those seed phrases,

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those words that you will need to write down.

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If this is all new to you, please don't panic.

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Please don't worry.

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It's not that difficult.

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All you have to do is write down the words and keep them somewhere safe.

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Make sure you keep your words safe.

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Do not take a picture of them.

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Do not put them on a Google Drive.

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Do not write them in any kind of digital form

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because you just open yourself up to being hacked one day.

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This is as basic as it gets.

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This is self-custody 101.

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You can get a lot crazier and get into the multisig,

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but please keep it simple, stupid,

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especially if you're just starting.

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If you've not got a hardware wallet

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and you have been stacking for a little while now,

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it's time to take control of that Bitcoin.

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Get it off the exchange or the app,

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whatever you've been using.

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If it's not under your control, it needs to be.

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So get over to bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten.

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Make this a New Year's resolution.

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Up your Bitcoin knowledge around self-custody.

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And if you've not, like I said before,

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if you've not just done the simple basics

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of getting your keys in your control,

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this is the place to start now.

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bitbox.swiss forward slash bitum is the best place for you to go there's lots of educational

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resources over there as well if you want to look around at different hardware wallets be my guest

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my good friend btc sessions has lots of tutorials over on his youtube channel so you can just go

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there and watch ben talk you through it fast forward him slow him down speed him up cut to

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the exact point you want to do it whatever just follow his tutorials but just make sure you get

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yourself custody bitcoin that is the game here paywithflash.com is the place for you to go if

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you want to start accepting bitcoin for your goods and services it's so easy the tools that we have

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our disposal now going into 2026 compared just to going into 2020 is night and day so use them

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go and check them out paywithflash.com is the best place for you if you want to start

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accepting Bitcoin for your goods and services.

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And finally, Orange Pill App, now Club Orange.

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Hit the link in the show notes.

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Listen to this episode.

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Then come find us on the app and interact with us.

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We're looking forward to it.

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Enjoy this rip with Mateo.

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Now, I'm Mateo.

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We are recording.

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And first thing to do here is open a beer.

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Okay.

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Because first, you know, it is five o'clock here in the UK.

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and we are celebrating the relaunch.

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And whilst I pour this, Lauren, you're going to ask the first question?

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I was going to say I'm going to do ASMR.

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Why did you change the name Orange Palette to Club Orange?

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That's the whole podcast, guys.

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Just one question.

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Why did we change the name?

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Well, you know, it's number one.

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honestly the real reason is because my wife

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have claimed

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that she came out with the name

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and I could not allow that

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so I had to change it

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I'm just kidding but she does claim that she came out

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with Orange Fula

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might be true, might not be true, I don't remember

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but you know Orange Fula

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was a little challenge

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it has some challenge

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in the name

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you know the word pill

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was not great

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but mostly it's because

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I realized that

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except Orange

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Peel and App

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was getting misspelled all the

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time in all kinds of ways

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and you know

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at some point I was like you know this is a

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problem because then you don't if you go to the

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App Store and you know you write

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the wrong name then nothing comes

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up and so you know

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that's kind of the short I'm sure

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we're going to go deep dive but

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you know that's kind of the short reason so some people lauren were searching for orange peel app

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p-e-e-l which makes sense it's easily easily misheard and you know it's a global app right so

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uh people are talking to each other in perhaps non-native tongue uh so yeah it was and i don't

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think you can get club orange wrong does this somehow make it less of a dating app then or

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dating app what made you think it was a dating app

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who gave you that idea

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your father

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oh man

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honestly if you remove peel

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it might be more of a dating app

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oh man

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some people thought it was a pharmacy app

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you know

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or are you just joking I can't tell

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it's the I don't know

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did you see the AI video that we made

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with a rebrand

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you know

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I did

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I didn't

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find it

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yeah

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it's

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yeah you know

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it could sound

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as a pharmacy

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kind of like

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you know

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if you don't know

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anything

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like what is this

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thing right

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so yeah

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still not

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living up

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or maybe it is

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we'll find out

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although

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do you know

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people have been

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married

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yes

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two marriages

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one baby

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I think.

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Well,

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so one marriage

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and one baby

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on the way.

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No,

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I think it's by now

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it must be out.

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And

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second one,

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maybe third,

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there's,

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you know,

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there is romance

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brewing

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in Club Orange.

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There's definitely

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been a proposal,

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right?

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Perhaps not

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another wedding?

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Not yet,

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but

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probably soon.

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I don't want to

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jinx you for them.

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Matteo

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has some insight

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info yeah that that's so cool like you know all joking aside when when you did pitch this to me

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originally like two years ago uh because you just had your two year birthday uh i would thought like

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yeah bad idea man like dating out for dudes bitcoin grinder uh and i know a lot of other

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vcs thought that as well uh but you went and launched it anyway and here you are two years

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late to almost 20,000 down 20,000 active users how many downloads 95 almost a hundred thousand

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yes yes mate that's amazing and still bootstrapped right you know we raised some money you know we

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raised some money but you know nothing you know nothing major so mostly yeah mostly bootstrap yes

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I mean revenue, you know, there's this thing called revenue.

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Amazing concept I know What do you do with that revenue Would you sweep some of that revenue into Bitcoin Perhaps Wow does that make you a Bitcoin treasury company I hope not

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There you go. Good old fashioned, just run a business, a profitable business,

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take X amount of that percentage each month and stack sats with it. Yeah, what can you share with

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about the SATs situation on the Club Orange balance sheet?

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Well, it's public.

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We tweet about it.

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Actually, the latest update, I think you're going to love it, 6.15.

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No way, really.

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You didn't know that?

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Oh, no, that's amazing.

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I literally, like, oh, I want to tweet.

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you know i want to get to 615 right i don't think we would get there because you know price kept

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going up and then i bought it and then the price crashed next day but at least i got a tweet so

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i'm proud of that but yeah 16 6.15 bitcoin all right american hodl i know you're listening

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where are you brother come on come and invest now we've hit the number 6.5 at least join you know

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At least join Hoddle.

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I mean, he's a sociable guy, right?

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Yeah.

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He likes hanging out and meeting people in real life because,

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I mean, this is going to be a big topic for 2026, I think.

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I think everyone's just sick and tired of the algos

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and being, you know, force fed information.

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Everyone's sick of Twitter, obviously.

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People are Noster Curious.

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what I've noticed is they come, then they go,

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and then they're back to Twitter,

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and then Twitter goes down for whatever reason.

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Then they come back to Nostra, then they go again.

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But there is more and more people,

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more of our community ending up on Nostra.

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But then you get to the conferences,

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and you get to the events, and you get to the meetups,

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and there's so much better than anything,

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anything you can do online.

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Yes.

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I mean, it's, my thesis is that, you know, humans have only been online for 25 years, when you think about it, literally, like, let's say 2000, right?

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Maybe less, because, you know, in 2000, there was no social media.

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But let's say 20 years.

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Let's say 20 years.

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I still think you're being generous with 20 years there.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Because not everyone was on the internet either, right?

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Of course.

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They were doing a lot of this.

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Of course.

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but you know

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humans have been around for 200,000

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years right so 20 years

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out of 200,000 is 0.01%

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whatever it is

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so I think like if you look at

258
00:13:15,513 --> 00:13:17,233
20 years from now

259
00:13:17,233 --> 00:13:19,713
my prediction is that very few

260
00:13:19,713 --> 00:13:20,893
humans will be online

261
00:13:20,893 --> 00:13:23,653
hopefully we are all alive to check

262
00:13:23,653 --> 00:13:24,273
that prediction

263
00:13:24,273 --> 00:13:26,673
Lauren will be

264
00:13:26,673 --> 00:13:29,593
so let us know

265
00:13:29,593 --> 00:13:30,513
let us know

266
00:13:30,513 --> 00:13:33,173
it's interesting

267
00:13:33,173 --> 00:13:37,473
to frame it that way you're totally right uh that we've only been online for 20 years

268
00:13:37,473 --> 00:13:43,673
that's right that makes me feel old but i'm young at the you well you were born into the internet

269
00:13:43,673 --> 00:13:51,253
but what do your friends think about like what do you think about what we're talking about here like

270
00:13:51,253 --> 00:13:58,093
in real life connections versus online connections well just in real life connections are usually

271
00:13:58,093 --> 00:14:04,873
much better but i do know a friend that had a friend online and then they actually met up

272
00:14:04,873 --> 00:14:14,713
and it didn't go as expected but for both of them hang on is it a date no no it was like a full like

273
00:14:14,713 --> 00:14:22,833
two weeks in canada and then they met up and it wasn't worth it so it like really does you really

274
00:14:22,833 --> 00:14:28,673
gotta pick and choose your right ones but real life meetings are way better like you actually can

275
00:14:28,673 --> 00:14:34,433
connect with the person on a much higher level so this is a friend of your age right yes so that

276
00:14:34,433 --> 00:14:39,393
means she's built a relationship with someone online in kind of had they even facetimed each

277
00:14:39,393 --> 00:14:50,693
but even then so her mother obviously has to take her yeah or father yeah two weeks yeah in the

278
00:14:50,693 --> 00:15:01,673
person's family's home yep weirdness yeah that's bad yeah that was really bad okay he like cried on

279
00:15:01,673 --> 00:15:07,033
the way back from the taxi because it was like horrible it was not a poor thing you know learn

280
00:15:07,033 --> 00:15:13,473
your lesson don't build intimate relationships online first unless you're from pub orange

281
00:15:13,473 --> 00:15:15,153
Yeah, go for a coffee.

282
00:15:15,813 --> 00:15:17,213
Don't fly to a different country.

283
00:15:18,073 --> 00:15:19,373
Yeah, it's wild.

284
00:15:20,133 --> 00:15:23,133
You know the first memory I have of the internet?

285
00:15:24,373 --> 00:15:25,713
I'm 41 now.

286
00:15:25,713 --> 00:15:31,693
But in Italy, we didn't get it in 2005, 2006, 2003.

287
00:15:31,933 --> 00:15:32,693
Something like that.

288
00:15:33,533 --> 00:15:35,893
You know the first memory I have of the internet?

289
00:15:36,133 --> 00:15:42,333
It's this video of a kid in America talking to a kid in Tokyo.

290
00:15:43,473 --> 00:15:47,033
And it's like, wow, you know, I'm talking to somebody in Tokyo.

291
00:15:47,393 --> 00:15:48,673
That's my first memory.

292
00:15:50,433 --> 00:15:57,113
You know, that's why we, you know, that's why humans, like the question is, why did humans go online?

293
00:15:57,453 --> 00:15:58,553
What was the reason?

294
00:15:58,813 --> 00:16:03,713
I think it's because we wanted to connect to people that you will never meet.

295
00:16:04,633 --> 00:16:10,753
You know, like, you know, this kid in the US talking to this kid in Tokyo.

296
00:16:10,753 --> 00:16:18,393
But now, with AI, it's like, you know, I use AI all the time.

297
00:16:18,553 --> 00:16:21,653
I have friends that are building AI companies.

298
00:16:22,233 --> 00:16:25,373
So I see the frontier of AI.

299
00:16:26,353 --> 00:16:31,033
And it's like, there are all these tools that can tweet for you,

300
00:16:31,133 --> 00:16:34,833
they can send them for you as pretend to be human.

301
00:16:35,273 --> 00:16:37,093
And you don't know that it's not you.

302
00:16:37,093 --> 00:16:39,993
eventually, here's my prediction

303
00:16:39,993 --> 00:16:41,953
that, I don't know, maybe one year or two years

304
00:16:41,953 --> 00:16:42,433
from now

305
00:16:42,433 --> 00:16:45,453
you won't be able to tell

306
00:16:45,453 --> 00:16:47,913
if you're talking to me or my

307
00:16:47,913 --> 00:16:49,893
AI agent right now

308
00:16:49,893 --> 00:16:50,473
on a call

309
00:16:50,473 --> 00:16:53,353
and that's I think it's the end of the

310
00:16:53,353 --> 00:16:55,293
I think at that point it's like

311
00:16:55,293 --> 00:16:56,753
what's the point of being online?

312
00:16:57,453 --> 00:16:57,773
Like you know

313
00:16:57,773 --> 00:17:01,993
we can send my AI agent to your agent

314
00:17:01,993 --> 00:17:04,033
and then they will schedule

315
00:17:04,033 --> 00:17:05,353
maybe for us, hey

316
00:17:05,353 --> 00:17:07,033
this guy is really cool

317
00:17:07,033 --> 00:17:13,673
you guys should meet in real life or you should you know i think that's where we're going um and

318
00:17:13,673 --> 00:17:19,053
so at that point then humans i think humans are gonna retreat to their natural habitat

319
00:17:19,053 --> 00:17:29,033
which is like the pub the bar you know the beach uh the eye king this this the stadium

320
00:17:29,033 --> 00:17:35,293
you know all these things that we use i mean you you remember obviously uh that's how it work and

321
00:17:35,293 --> 00:17:36,313
I think that's where we're going.

322
00:17:36,793 --> 00:17:37,873
It's a trend.

323
00:17:38,033 --> 00:17:41,273
I think long-term, being online would be like,

324
00:17:41,373 --> 00:17:43,373
oh, humans were online for a while.

325
00:17:44,373 --> 00:17:46,793
Like CDs.

326
00:17:46,793 --> 00:17:52,693
Oh, humans used to have the Walkman for like 20 years,

327
00:17:52,773 --> 00:17:53,853
and then it just disappeared.

328
00:17:55,813 --> 00:17:58,913
I mean, just so we're not confusing,

329
00:17:59,373 --> 00:18:01,053
we'll still be using the internet,

330
00:18:01,053 --> 00:18:05,933
but we won't be using it to like interact with each other

331
00:18:05,933 --> 00:18:07,233
in the way that we're using it right now.

332
00:18:07,353 --> 00:18:10,913
Obviously, because we're going to have, well, Bitcoin, banking,

333
00:18:11,613 --> 00:18:12,833
all that kind of stuff.

334
00:18:13,533 --> 00:18:19,113
Well, we'll be using the internet much, much less, you know, much less.

335
00:18:19,673 --> 00:18:21,653
Like what do you do on the internet?

336
00:18:21,893 --> 00:18:23,813
Like you make a spreadsheet, you send an email,

337
00:18:24,213 --> 00:18:27,573
you watch a YouTube video, you do some posting, right?

338
00:18:27,573 --> 00:18:28,873
but when

339
00:18:28,873 --> 00:18:29,533
so

340
00:18:29,533 --> 00:18:31,773
when you have an AI agent

341
00:18:31,773 --> 00:18:33,093
let's say

342
00:18:33,093 --> 00:18:34,293
Daniel Prince AI agent

343
00:18:34,293 --> 00:18:34,633
which

344
00:18:34,633 --> 00:18:35,693
you will have it

345
00:18:35,693 --> 00:18:36,633
because it will make you

346
00:18:36,633 --> 00:18:38,093
10 times more productive

347
00:18:38,093 --> 00:18:39,953
that sends better email than you

348
00:18:39,953 --> 00:18:41,653
makes better spreadsheet

349
00:18:41,653 --> 00:18:44,333
make better posts than you

350
00:18:44,333 --> 00:18:45,053
and

351
00:18:45,053 --> 00:18:46,573
at that point

352
00:18:46,573 --> 00:18:49,273
like what is the value of you being

353
00:18:49,273 --> 00:18:50,473
and trying to send an email

354
00:18:50,473 --> 00:18:51,913
like I don't send emails anymore

355
00:18:51,913 --> 00:18:53,553
like every email I send

356
00:18:53,553 --> 00:18:54,073
honestly

357
00:18:54,073 --> 00:18:55,913
I write it

358
00:18:55,913 --> 00:18:57,193
then I go to chargegbt

359
00:18:57,193 --> 00:18:58,373
improve this email

360
00:18:58,373 --> 00:19:00,293
I just write like the outline

361
00:19:00,293 --> 00:19:02,653
I haven't sent an email like

362
00:19:02,653 --> 00:19:04,793
fully right away by me in like months

363
00:19:04,793 --> 00:19:06,353
and you know

364
00:19:06,353 --> 00:19:08,353
but I still have to go from Gmail

365
00:19:08,353 --> 00:19:10,953
to chat GPC and then come back

366
00:19:10,953 --> 00:19:12,533
to Gmail at some point Gmail is like

367
00:19:12,533 --> 00:19:14,873
hey we read all of your emails

368
00:19:14,873 --> 00:19:16,893
we know your

369
00:19:16,893 --> 00:19:18,833
calendar you know we have your calendar

370
00:19:18,833 --> 00:19:20,333
we read all your tweets

371
00:19:20,333 --> 00:19:22,473
we read all of your

372
00:19:22,473 --> 00:19:24,813
notes or posts you know all that kind of stuff

373
00:19:24,813 --> 00:19:26,753
say this is what you should

374
00:19:26,753 --> 00:19:28,233
right, you know.

375
00:19:28,993 --> 00:19:30,753
And so one

376
00:19:30,753 --> 00:19:32,073
way to think about it is, like,

377
00:19:32,633 --> 00:19:34,953
this phase of AI is like, humans

378
00:19:34,953 --> 00:19:36,133
tell the AI

379
00:19:36,133 --> 00:19:38,053
what they want to do.

380
00:19:39,033 --> 00:19:40,833
Right? I think the next phase

381
00:19:40,833 --> 00:19:42,713
would be, AI

382
00:19:42,713 --> 00:19:44,693
tells the human what

383
00:19:44,693 --> 00:19:46,793
we should do. And then the last

384
00:19:46,793 --> 00:19:48,773
stage, the

385
00:19:48,773 --> 00:19:51,013
end game is, humans

386
00:19:51,013 --> 00:19:52,513
out of the loop completely.

387
00:19:53,873 --> 00:19:54,533
Like, you

388
00:19:54,533 --> 00:19:56,553
create your AI agent,

389
00:19:56,753 --> 00:19:58,673
he knows everything about you

390
00:19:58,673 --> 00:20:01,213
he knows probably more about you than you do

391
00:20:01,213 --> 00:20:03,253
and then he goes and sends an email

392
00:20:03,253 --> 00:20:03,853
and sends

393
00:20:03,853 --> 00:20:05,993
does the spreadsheet

394
00:20:05,993 --> 00:20:09,453
and then kind of like an executive

395
00:20:09,453 --> 00:20:11,093
assistant that does

396
00:20:11,093 --> 00:20:12,613
that run your life online

397
00:20:12,613 --> 00:20:14,133
and then he just sends you an email

398
00:20:14,133 --> 00:20:17,213
hey Daniel you should check this video

399
00:20:17,213 --> 00:20:18,873
hey Daniel

400
00:20:18,873 --> 00:20:20,093
you should talk to this guy

401
00:20:20,093 --> 00:20:22,473
I think that's the end goal

402
00:20:22,473 --> 00:20:31,273
i i can't figure out whether what do you think about that lauren because i think it's one to two

403
00:20:31,273 --> 00:20:39,833
years is no offense a little bit unrealistic because everyone's very addicted to their to

404
00:20:39,833 --> 00:20:55,045
their phones like i i don see it happening in one to two years maybe in a longer but amount of time but the addiction is real I know because it all funny games

405
00:20:55,285 --> 00:20:59,545
Like I say, like, oh, everyone's addicted, but I can't speak because I'm addicted too.

406
00:20:59,965 --> 00:21:01,605
It's not good.

407
00:21:01,665 --> 00:21:04,665
But the problem is I know I'm addicted, but I don't do anything on balance.

408
00:21:04,665 --> 00:21:05,905
So, anyways.

409
00:21:07,165 --> 00:21:13,345
So, yeah, I feel like there's a lot more people out there that's like me and that they know they're addicted.

410
00:21:13,345 --> 00:21:17,745
or sometimes they don't even know they're addicted so i think it's the addiction that will really

411
00:21:17,745 --> 00:21:24,745
make this a long journey to get off the internet the thing i was uh picking up on like this it

412
00:21:24,745 --> 00:21:30,345
sounded dystopic but it's already happening like you know they're gonna read your emails they've

413
00:21:30,345 --> 00:21:35,865
read every email you've ever sent gmail already already have right we're already there for 20

414
00:21:35,865 --> 00:21:40,865
years every phone call you've ever made yep they've watched every text you've ever sent uh

415
00:21:40,865 --> 00:21:46,605
they've tracked everything you've ever bought i mean we already live in that dystopian world

416
00:21:46,605 --> 00:21:54,165
that's something people really need to accept i saw a tweet the other day actually that

417
00:21:54,165 --> 00:22:02,305
a lawyer entered walmart in the u.s uh left all of his devices at home didn't have anything with

418
00:22:02,305 --> 00:22:07,565
him went and bought something for cash and by the time he got home he had an email from walmart

419
00:22:07,565 --> 00:22:11,725
asking him to leave a review about his purchase and the service that day.

420
00:22:12,165 --> 00:22:14,345
He's like, holy crap.

421
00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:16,505
They're paid in cash.

422
00:22:17,185 --> 00:22:17,985
What is it?

423
00:22:18,065 --> 00:22:20,145
Is it the store cameras?

424
00:22:20,625 --> 00:22:24,885
As he walks in and then one on the till sees what he's bought

425
00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:29,985
and then just sends out an automated email.

426
00:22:30,485 --> 00:22:31,185
This is crazy.

427
00:22:31,765 --> 00:22:32,905
We're already there.

428
00:22:32,905 --> 00:22:34,865
I mean, how many times?

429
00:22:34,865 --> 00:22:40,685
I don't know how many times have you talked about something and then you open especially Instagram

430
00:22:40,685 --> 00:22:49,885
and it's like oh here is a business and I'm like and I'm like like you know I know they have access

431
00:22:49,885 --> 00:22:54,645
to the microphone because it's somewhere in the in the in the thermal conditions

432
00:22:54,645 --> 00:23:02,405
but then I watch a Jorogan interview with somebody that works at Facebook you know which is Instagram

433
00:23:02,405 --> 00:23:07,525
no we don't do that it's just like path of recognition you know maybe you search something

434
00:23:07,525 --> 00:23:13,685
and i'm like sometimes i talk to things that i never search in my life because somebody has

435
00:23:13,685 --> 00:23:19,625
some interest that's something that's so alien from my interest and then i go on instagram

436
00:23:19,625 --> 00:23:27,645
sometimes even five minutes later i really don't know how to do it uh beside just you know spying

437
00:23:27,645 --> 00:23:34,905
on you um but you know yeah we live in a surveillance state especially in the u.s honestly

438
00:23:34,905 --> 00:23:41,565
like uh it's you know uh people that you know people talk to me about privacy and we you know

439
00:23:41,565 --> 00:23:46,105
we do this i mean we do a lot of things like no kyc you know you can use an all-star and pub too

440
00:23:46,105 --> 00:23:53,345
and you know but people really don't realize like if you have a like in the u i'm talking

441
00:23:53,345 --> 00:23:55,525
for the US. Probably the UK is even worse

442
00:23:55,525 --> 00:23:56,465
actually. I don't know.

443
00:23:57,285 --> 00:23:58,845
If you have a phone number

444
00:23:58,845 --> 00:24:01,325
and if you have a carrier

445
00:24:01,325 --> 00:24:02,665
that it's like

446
00:24:02,665 --> 00:24:04,985
I don't know. What do you guys have?

447
00:24:05,265 --> 00:24:06,745
O2? You still have O2?

448
00:24:07,665 --> 00:24:08,445
Well, Orange.

449
00:24:09,225 --> 00:24:11,285
Orange, yeah. We shouldn't name them.

450
00:24:11,485 --> 00:24:13,085
The guys that tried to sue you.

451
00:24:13,085 --> 00:24:14,445
We'll come back to that story.

452
00:24:14,585 --> 00:24:16,425
But anyway,

453
00:24:16,685 --> 00:24:19,165
so here's

454
00:24:19,165 --> 00:24:20,365
an...

455
00:24:20,365 --> 00:24:22,305
I used to listen to a lot of

456
00:24:22,305 --> 00:24:26,205
like a crime documentary many years ago.

457
00:24:27,165 --> 00:24:30,385
And then they interviewed the police sometimes.

458
00:24:30,705 --> 00:24:35,125
And basically, you know, like you can have a Google phone,

459
00:24:36,005 --> 00:24:36,705
know anything.

460
00:24:37,085 --> 00:24:40,265
If you use like a carrier, like a T-Mobile,

461
00:24:40,705 --> 00:24:43,345
like a Verizon, like AT&T carrier,

462
00:24:44,025 --> 00:24:45,085
they, you're tracked.

463
00:24:45,665 --> 00:24:46,565
They know where you are.

464
00:24:46,565 --> 00:24:49,025
They ping the tower every 30 seconds.

465
00:24:49,025 --> 00:24:52,565
and then the police can use that stuff to find, you know,

466
00:24:53,025 --> 00:24:56,105
if they're investigating you, they can find,

467
00:24:56,145 --> 00:25:00,925
oh, you were there on that day, how fast you were going,

468
00:25:01,065 --> 00:25:03,025
so they can know if you're driving or walking.

469
00:25:03,305 --> 00:25:04,625
It's like, you know.

470
00:25:05,565 --> 00:25:07,905
So my advice is, here's my advice.

471
00:25:09,525 --> 00:25:12,625
Don't do, you know, signal.

472
00:25:13,045 --> 00:25:15,965
People use signal to say things maybe they shouldn't say.

473
00:25:16,585 --> 00:25:18,565
Maybe signal is encrypted, maybe not.

474
00:25:18,565 --> 00:25:20,125
I mean, look who's on the board, right?

475
00:25:21,565 --> 00:25:25,225
NPR president, which is like a state-owned media.

476
00:25:26,065 --> 00:25:27,165
Like, do they really care about privacy?

477
00:25:27,305 --> 00:25:28,045
Maybe, maybe not.

478
00:25:28,145 --> 00:25:28,505
I don't know.

479
00:25:29,405 --> 00:25:30,645
My advice is like,

480
00:25:31,665 --> 00:25:34,325
behave as if everything you say online

481
00:25:34,325 --> 00:25:36,865
is one day is going to be published.

482
00:25:38,065 --> 00:25:38,925
And then, you know,

483
00:25:38,985 --> 00:25:40,405
then it doesn't matter what you're using.

484
00:25:40,765 --> 00:25:42,125
I think that's the best advice

485
00:25:42,125 --> 00:25:43,725
instead of like, oh, you know, yes,

486
00:25:43,805 --> 00:25:45,445
and I'm using this app,

487
00:25:45,625 --> 00:25:46,685
which I think is private.

488
00:25:46,685 --> 00:25:49,025
and then I say things that

489
00:25:49,025 --> 00:25:51,485
might come back and hunt me one day.

490
00:25:53,285 --> 00:25:53,485
So,

491
00:25:53,725 --> 00:25:54,065
you know,

492
00:25:54,325 --> 00:25:56,425
yeah, we live in a surveillance state.

493
00:25:57,165 --> 00:25:58,325
It is what it is.

494
00:26:00,705 --> 00:26:02,005
My AI agent

495
00:26:02,005 --> 00:26:03,545
can go and

496
00:26:03,545 --> 00:26:06,245
can do stuff for me

497
00:26:06,245 --> 00:26:08,345
while I'm offline. You see what I'm saying?

498
00:26:08,825 --> 00:26:10,165
I want to have my AI agent

499
00:26:10,165 --> 00:26:11,505
be surveilled myself.

500
00:26:12,025 --> 00:26:13,845
So you can be out for a walk in the park

501
00:26:13,845 --> 00:26:15,685
or spending time on the beach

502
00:26:15,685 --> 00:26:16,445
with your family.

503
00:26:16,685 --> 00:26:18,025
No devices with you.

504
00:26:18,605 --> 00:26:20,485
The AI agent is working for you at home.

505
00:26:21,145 --> 00:26:23,885
They're sending email, they're doing spreadsheet,

506
00:26:24,245 --> 00:26:25,305
they're going on a podcast.

507
00:26:25,885 --> 00:26:26,665
You see what I'm saying?

508
00:26:26,885 --> 00:26:31,745
Then you create a divide maybe between you as a human being

509
00:26:31,745 --> 00:26:34,265
and your virtual representation.

510
00:26:36,445 --> 00:26:40,585
You'd have to take your tap signer out so you can spend your stats.

511
00:26:41,405 --> 00:26:45,185
So you can spend stats offline with your tap signer.

512
00:26:45,365 --> 00:26:46,425
Interesting story, actually.

513
00:26:46,425 --> 00:26:52,525
I was just in New York last week and I used the, uh, the hotel phone,

514
00:26:52,765 --> 00:26:55,485
the landline. Uh, remember those old things?

515
00:26:56,025 --> 00:26:59,645
Picked up the thing, had the cord on it, right.

516
00:26:59,925 --> 00:27:04,305
To book a table at a restaurant. And she said, uh, yeah, okay, sure. Uh,

517
00:27:04,305 --> 00:27:09,045
two people at seven o'clock. Uh, what's the name, Daniel?

518
00:27:09,225 --> 00:27:12,485
Thank you very much. Can we take a contact number, um,

519
00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:15,345
to reach you in case you're running late or whatever, you know,

520
00:27:15,345 --> 00:27:22,205
not out of line so i gave her so i said well it's going to be a foreign number he said okay

521
00:27:22,205 --> 00:27:29,285
that's no problem at all we'll just take it i gave her my uk number as soon as i said the last digit

522
00:27:29,285 --> 00:27:38,325
she said oh okay i'll book it for daniel prince i'm like what holy crap like how on earth do you

523
00:27:38,325 --> 00:27:48,725
have that i this is crazy you know a uk sim and bam straight away and it happened twice with the

524
00:27:48,725 --> 00:27:53,945
two restaurant bookings that i made i'm like this is absolutely wild maybe because you're famous

525
00:27:53,945 --> 00:28:03,225
though yeah famous yeah i wasn't there though so yeah they didn't know exactly and lastly if people

526
00:28:03,225 --> 00:28:10,385
want to because your your point here about ai i did an interview with uh pete win and the name of

527
00:28:10,385 --> 00:28:15,365
that title is called ai will pay humans with bitcoin so he's talking about the same thing

528
00:28:15,365 --> 00:28:21,065
that you are like this flip is going to happen right and uh that's episode 544 if anybody wants

529
00:28:21,065 --> 00:28:27,165
to go and listen to that that's with pete win uh yeah episode 544 right lauren any further questions

530
00:28:27,165 --> 00:28:35,165
or thoughts or uh before you head off and do what you want to do i think i think i'm done here

531
00:28:35,165 --> 00:28:41,725
i think i'm good do you like the name club orange i do all right it's it's it's nice the logo do you

532
00:28:41,725 --> 00:28:50,285
like the logo yeah it was just yeah that's yeah that's better than the other one that's nicer

533
00:28:50,285 --> 00:28:58,065
yeah yeah do you see what it is though it's segments of orange

534
00:28:58,065 --> 00:29:02,205
and then there's one this thing right yeah well it forms a keyhole you see oh

535
00:29:02,205 --> 00:29:10,705
oh so it's like that's the keyhole into like the little bitcoiner private club of weirdos

536
00:29:10,705 --> 00:29:15,885
and nerds that want to go and talk about bitcoin and windmill what oh yeah

537
00:29:15,885 --> 00:29:22,665
also a lighthouse also a lighthouse yeah like a lighthouse to your people yeah it's a beacon

538
00:29:22,665 --> 00:29:29,945
yeah yeah look at that works in more ways than one all right well cool thank you very much thank

539
00:29:29,945 --> 00:29:37,725
you thank you for having me hope you have a good podcast thank you lauren bye ciao uh so yeah to

540
00:29:37,725 --> 00:29:42,345
to stick on the privacy thing mate because that is one thing that you've obviously faced

541
00:29:42,345 --> 00:29:49,225
time and time again over and over for the last two years because of the nature of the app is to

542
00:29:49,225 --> 00:29:56,265
connect people right it's uh to i can flick the app open and i can find who's nearby who's in the

543
00:29:56,265 --> 00:30:01,425
area if there's any events i can get along to whether that's a meetup or a conference if there's

544
00:30:01,425 --> 00:30:08,545
any merchants that i can go and spend my sets with and people will scream why would i dox myself and

545
00:30:08,545 --> 00:30:12,185
all this kind of stuff and look if people don't want to join the app because of that that's totally

546
00:30:12,185 --> 00:30:18,185
fine that's up to them right and uh it's a paid app so spend yourself where you feel most comfortable

547
00:30:18,185 --> 00:30:25,205
but if you just want to explain to people like uh obviously it's not 100 private but the lengths

548
00:30:25,205 --> 00:30:33,305
that you've gone to to um to make it as bitcoin ethos as possible yeah i mean number one there is

549
00:30:33,305 --> 00:30:39,825
no doxing literally we don't do kyc obviously you know we don't sell bitcoin we don't you know

550
00:30:39,825 --> 00:30:45,545
it's a social network so there is no kyc we can use any name you want you can use your name you

551
00:30:45,545 --> 00:30:52,625
cannot use your name uh profile picture you can use any profile picture you want uh now it's been

552
00:30:52,625 --> 00:30:59,265
it's been a year now that we added the nostor login so you don't even need an email you could

553
00:30:59,265 --> 00:31:04,245
just grab uh by the way also if you want an email you can just grab one of these disposable email

554
00:31:04,245 --> 00:31:20,438
You can log in with Nosur which is even more private than an email address I guess And the geolocation piece number number one we made it optional recently because now there a wallet you know

555
00:31:20,498 --> 00:31:23,298
so you can use the app without the geolocation.

556
00:31:24,558 --> 00:31:27,398
You can join group chats, you can find events,

557
00:31:27,558 --> 00:31:30,418
obviously not ordered by distance, but ordered by time.

558
00:31:31,038 --> 00:31:33,018
You know, we have a list of all the conferences in the world.

559
00:31:33,738 --> 00:31:37,498
So there is now some value in using the app

560
00:31:37,498 --> 00:31:38,818
without the geolocation.

561
00:31:39,978 --> 00:31:52,238
But if you want the best experience, the full experience, you can enable the location, which is approximate, meaning it's 10 miles radius.

562
00:31:54,638 --> 00:32:01,498
And then number two, we don't do background tracing, meaning once you close the app, we don't care where you are.

563
00:32:02,198 --> 00:32:03,438
Because we don't do ads.

564
00:32:03,618 --> 00:32:07,718
So it's like, you know, the background tracing, like, you know, what we talk about Instagram.

565
00:32:07,718 --> 00:32:15,898
they have to track everything you do to serve you the ads that are more relevant to you

566
00:32:15,898 --> 00:32:21,458
so they want to know oh this guy's been at ethro even though he has an open instagram

567
00:32:21,458 --> 00:32:28,918
or this guy's been in paris or whatever and so we don't do any of that we obviously we don't do ads

568
00:32:28,918 --> 00:32:34,138
you know it's paywall you know it's a very straightforward business model like we pay

569
00:32:34,138 --> 00:32:35,998
you pay to join the network,

570
00:32:36,218 --> 00:32:37,698
which has a lot of advantages.

571
00:32:38,358 --> 00:32:40,418
One of these is that we don't care

572
00:32:40,418 --> 00:32:42,438
about your data, honestly,

573
00:32:43,038 --> 00:32:43,798
which is why,

574
00:32:44,418 --> 00:32:45,998
see, this is kind of like a loop, right?

575
00:32:46,318 --> 00:32:47,438
Because we don't do ads,

576
00:32:48,098 --> 00:32:48,978
we don't do KYC.

577
00:32:49,878 --> 00:32:51,038
Because we don't do KYC,

578
00:32:51,118 --> 00:32:52,838
we don't care if you use an all-star and pub.

579
00:32:53,398 --> 00:32:55,798
So it kind of like reinforced itself.

580
00:32:57,118 --> 00:32:59,898
Like if you adopt privacy

581
00:32:59,898 --> 00:33:01,598
as your business model,

582
00:33:01,598 --> 00:33:11,698
then you can do things that most business can't do and so um and also that's probably why we've

583
00:33:11,698 --> 00:33:17,798
been you know so successful because bitcoiners intuitively understand that you know if you want

584
00:33:17,798 --> 00:33:22,418
to use the bitcoin network you have to pay everybody has to pay now it's like you know

585
00:33:22,418 --> 00:33:29,158
now it's almost free this is one step for vbyte but um it's kind of the same logic so yeah it's

586
00:33:29,158 --> 00:33:31,198
super private, you know. Also, it wouldn't, you know,

587
00:33:31,858 --> 00:33:33,378
I'm a Bitcoin maxi.

588
00:33:34,078 --> 00:33:35,238
In fact, I never used,

589
00:33:35,558 --> 00:33:37,298
this is something that, I don't know if I ever said

590
00:33:37,298 --> 00:33:38,818
that, before

591
00:33:38,818 --> 00:33:41,038
Orange Club slash Club Orange,

592
00:33:41,518 --> 00:33:42,878
I never used my name online.

593
00:33:43,178 --> 00:33:44,778
My real name, I never used it online.

594
00:33:45,978 --> 00:33:47,458
I remember this, actually.

595
00:33:47,558 --> 00:33:49,198
You were a nim on Twitter when

596
00:33:49,198 --> 00:33:51,238
you first reached out. I'm like, yeah.

597
00:33:52,438 --> 00:33:53,118
What was the name?

598
00:33:53,118 --> 00:33:53,438
Yeah, I had

599
00:33:53,438 --> 00:33:54,578
Ryan

600
00:33:54,578 --> 00:33:56,378
the Long Prayer.

601
00:33:57,878 --> 00:33:58,518
It's like,

602
00:33:59,158 --> 00:34:01,818
Honestly, I like the name Ryan.

603
00:34:02,098 --> 00:34:04,478
And then I was driving when I joined Twitter.

604
00:34:04,718 --> 00:34:05,838
I was driving in LA.

605
00:34:06,478 --> 00:34:08,298
And I was in a street called Delonpre.

606
00:34:08,598 --> 00:34:09,758
I was like, okay, that's the name.

607
00:34:11,398 --> 00:34:18,078
So I'm a big, you know, myself, I'm a big believer of, you know, privacy and anonymity.

608
00:34:19,778 --> 00:34:24,218
So everything we do is privacy first, you know, the distance, you can turn it off, right?

609
00:34:24,278 --> 00:34:25,978
So we don't show location, by the way.

610
00:34:25,978 --> 00:34:35,678
We only show the distance from the approximate location of one user to the approximate location of one other user, members, actually.

611
00:34:36,298 --> 00:34:37,598
But you can turn it off, right?

612
00:34:38,898 --> 00:34:41,878
So, yeah, we do everything we can to be as surprised as we can.

613
00:34:42,138 --> 00:34:44,878
And I think it's the only way to do it, honestly.

614
00:34:45,018 --> 00:34:47,038
It's the only way to build a social network in Bitcoin.

615
00:34:47,618 --> 00:34:52,698
I don't think we will get 19,000 members if we're doing KYC and that kind of stuff.

616
00:34:52,838 --> 00:34:53,818
It's just a no starter.

617
00:34:53,818 --> 00:35:02,438
it yeah i hear you mate uh it's interesting you bring up nostr because if we go back a year to 18

618
00:35:02,438 --> 00:35:09,618
months you had some kind of i would say doubtful thoughts towards nostr which you were outspoken

619
00:35:09,618 --> 00:35:19,878
about uh on nostr and twitter how how how was that you're i mean obviously you've been a social

620
00:35:19,878 --> 00:35:26,198
network so you've got something to say here how's your mind kind of uh what has it changed how's

621
00:35:26,198 --> 00:35:33,158
how have your thoughts developed around Nostra so what were they to what they are now yeah um

622
00:35:33,158 --> 00:35:41,578
I don't know that changed that much to be honest with you I think there is I I can see the value

623
00:35:41,578 --> 00:35:49,178
of Nostra not as much as a social media platform basically as a replacement for Twitter

624
00:35:49,178 --> 00:35:51,738
I don't see that much value, to be honest with you.

625
00:35:52,918 --> 00:35:55,298
A lot of reasons, I don't think we need to go into that.

626
00:35:56,298 --> 00:36:00,638
But I see value in having this decentralized

627
00:36:00,638 --> 00:36:04,578
kind of communication layer, communication protocol

628
00:36:04,578 --> 00:36:06,278
that anybody can join.

629
00:36:06,458 --> 00:36:07,238
You know, there is no login.

630
00:36:07,358 --> 00:36:09,338
I mean, there's login, but, you know, there's no password.

631
00:36:09,478 --> 00:36:12,698
There's no verifier at the end, that kind of stuff.

632
00:36:12,898 --> 00:36:15,898
I think that's like, there is a value in decentralizing

633
00:36:15,898 --> 00:36:20,318
an application layer of the internet, essentially.

634
00:36:21,318 --> 00:36:22,878
I don't think it's social media

635
00:36:22,878 --> 00:36:26,138
the real killer use case for Nostra.

636
00:36:26,338 --> 00:36:28,498
But for example, here's an example, right?

637
00:36:29,418 --> 00:36:32,158
We have the largest database of events,

638
00:36:32,478 --> 00:36:34,638
Bitcoin events in the world, by far.

639
00:36:35,358 --> 00:36:38,198
You know, we find them, places we import them.

640
00:36:39,298 --> 00:36:40,618
And then a few months ago,

641
00:36:40,738 --> 00:36:44,398
we started publishing automatically

642
00:36:44,398 --> 00:36:46,698
those events to Nostor.

643
00:36:49,098 --> 00:36:52,638
Which means somebody can then go and take that data

644
00:36:52,638 --> 00:36:56,058
and create their own Nostor.

645
00:36:56,398 --> 00:36:57,918
You don't have to call it Nostor, right?

646
00:36:58,078 --> 00:36:59,478
You have the data that is decentralized.

647
00:36:59,778 --> 00:37:02,618
You can take that data and create a platform,

648
00:37:02,758 --> 00:37:04,358
an application with the Bitcoin events.

649
00:37:05,118 --> 00:37:07,778
I think that's the real value for me of Nostor.

650
00:37:09,198 --> 00:37:10,978
Yeah, so we are very supportive of Nostor.

651
00:37:11,078 --> 00:37:12,038
Again, login.

652
00:37:12,038 --> 00:37:22,318
By the way, people maybe don't realize, when we launched the NoStore login, we had so much problem with Apple.

653
00:37:23,478 --> 00:37:24,278
They didn't like that.

654
00:37:24,718 --> 00:37:27,398
Also, they don't know what it is, obviously.

655
00:37:28,298 --> 00:37:29,778
They don't understand.

656
00:37:30,078 --> 00:37:30,998
It is not a classic.

657
00:37:31,238 --> 00:37:39,958
Anyway, long story short, we had to fight to get the NoStore login into the app because they didn't want us to have it.

658
00:37:39,958 --> 00:37:41,978
but you know

659
00:37:41,978 --> 00:37:43,098
they're still there

660
00:37:43,098 --> 00:37:44,178
we always fight

661
00:37:44,178 --> 00:37:45,578
the reviewer

662
00:37:45,578 --> 00:37:46,498
oh you know

663
00:37:46,498 --> 00:37:47,438
you should do this

664
00:37:47,438 --> 00:37:47,958
and say okay

665
00:37:47,958 --> 00:37:48,738
here we go again

666
00:37:48,738 --> 00:37:50,578
Nostry is decentralized

667
00:37:50,578 --> 00:37:52,318
there is no company behind

668
00:37:52,318 --> 00:37:52,818
blah blah blah

669
00:37:52,818 --> 00:37:54,018
eventually then

670
00:37:54,018 --> 00:37:54,978
we have to explain

671
00:37:54,978 --> 00:37:56,198
it's kind of like

672
00:37:56,198 --> 00:37:56,818
an email address

673
00:37:56,818 --> 00:37:57,378
essentially

674
00:37:57,378 --> 00:37:57,918
it's kind of like

675
00:37:57,918 --> 00:37:59,018
an email right

676
00:37:59,018 --> 00:38:00,218
it's a decentralized protocol

677
00:38:00,218 --> 00:38:02,018
and you know

678
00:38:02,018 --> 00:38:02,758
so we fight

679
00:38:02,758 --> 00:38:03,118
you know

680
00:38:03,118 --> 00:38:03,838
we have to fight

681
00:38:03,838 --> 00:38:04,638
many times for

682
00:38:04,638 --> 00:38:05,918
keeping the Nostry login

683
00:38:05,918 --> 00:38:07,738
yeah

684
00:38:07,738 --> 00:38:08,658
I mean that's kind of

685
00:38:08,658 --> 00:38:09,738
my thoughts on Nostry

686
00:38:09,738 --> 00:38:17,118
like social media i don't know how much valuable it is but a decentralized protocol for

687
00:38:17,118 --> 00:38:22,958
information i think is very valuable cool now you mentioned a fight with apple

688
00:38:22,958 --> 00:38:27,798
you had a fight with orange too you and you and the fruit guys man like what's going on

689
00:38:27,798 --> 00:38:36,998
i mean a long ago now but uh yeah you know they didn't like that uh we have orange in our name

690
00:38:36,998 --> 00:38:44,778
so orange for those that are listening orange is a big telecommunications company uh headquartered

691
00:38:44,778 --> 00:38:50,898
out of europe somewhere i don't know exactly which different right okay all right cool so you get you

692
00:38:50,898 --> 00:38:58,878
get this shitty email from some ambulance chasing copyright lawyer most likely uh basically

693
00:38:58,878 --> 00:39:05,778
threatening you to take down orange pill app with this this was in a within a month of launch it was

694
00:39:05,778 --> 00:39:06,978
Eight months.

695
00:39:07,658 --> 00:39:07,998
Right.

696
00:39:08,798 --> 00:39:08,958
Yeah.

697
00:39:09,258 --> 00:39:10,698
So, well, they didn't threaten us.

698
00:39:10,698 --> 00:39:16,978
They actually went to Google and Apple and told them to remove the app

699
00:39:16,978 --> 00:39:19,758
because we're violating their copyright.

700
00:39:20,918 --> 00:39:24,838
Now, Apple, thankfully, didn't fall for it, but Google did.

701
00:39:25,278 --> 00:39:32,118
So we were delisted on the Google Play Store after eight months of being,

702
00:39:32,178 --> 00:39:33,238
you know, alive.

703
00:39:33,238 --> 00:39:43,438
And, you know, and then, I mean, it was honestly was a miracle that we got back in the Google Play Store in 35 days.

704
00:39:44,318 --> 00:39:46,958
And I tried, I mean, I tried literally everything.

705
00:39:47,138 --> 00:39:51,698
Eventually, what happened is that a journalist at Forbes sent them an email.

706
00:39:52,478 --> 00:39:57,098
It's funny because, you know, I tried everything and what worked was an email from a journalist.

707
00:39:57,598 --> 00:39:58,798
And then they give up.

708
00:39:59,038 --> 00:40:00,478
That's crazy as it sounds.

709
00:40:03,238 --> 00:40:04,018
I'm still here.

710
00:40:04,578 --> 00:40:05,178
No, I'm still here.

711
00:40:05,318 --> 00:40:06,278
My video is just done.

712
00:40:06,598 --> 00:40:06,718
Yeah.

713
00:40:07,178 --> 00:40:11,378
So what happened is we should have changed the name back then

714
00:40:11,378 --> 00:40:12,698
instead of going through that fight.

715
00:40:14,738 --> 00:40:17,578
Should have changed the Club Orange two years and a half ago.

716
00:40:18,038 --> 00:40:19,538
Well, it was orange in the name.

717
00:40:19,638 --> 00:40:21,878
That wouldn't have got them off the...

718
00:40:21,878 --> 00:40:22,598
That's true.

719
00:40:22,738 --> 00:40:24,718
But at least it's not the first word.

720
00:40:25,118 --> 00:40:27,218
You know, there's a lot of things that, you know,

721
00:40:27,258 --> 00:40:30,318
maybe we should go into like naming and branding and logo,

722
00:40:31,158 --> 00:40:32,418
which is very interesting.

723
00:40:33,238 --> 00:40:37,718
Yeah, there is orange.

724
00:40:38,158 --> 00:40:42,878
Orange is the only thing that people wouldn't misspell in Orangeful app.

725
00:40:43,398 --> 00:40:44,998
The only thing they wouldn't misspell is orange.

726
00:40:45,878 --> 00:40:47,818
So we kept orange for that reason.

727
00:40:48,578 --> 00:40:54,658
And also because, you know, Bitcoin, orange, it's like people get it, right?

728
00:40:56,938 --> 00:41:00,198
But what are the names that we were thinking of?

729
00:41:00,198 --> 00:41:01,658
So many names.

730
00:41:01,658 --> 00:41:05,358
my favorite by the way was Orange

731
00:41:05,358 --> 00:41:06,018
World

732
00:41:06,018 --> 00:41:09,418
which guess who owns that

733
00:41:09,418 --> 00:41:10,958
domain? Orange

734
00:41:10,958 --> 00:41:14,118
if you go to

735
00:41:14,118 --> 00:41:15,578
orangeworld.com

736
00:41:15,578 --> 00:41:17,438
it redirects

737
00:41:17,438 --> 00:41:18,318
to orange.com

738
00:41:18,318 --> 00:41:21,878
so many names

739
00:41:21,878 --> 00:41:22,298
man

740
00:41:22,298 --> 00:41:23,998
so many names

741
00:41:23,998 --> 00:41:26,998
you know what it's just dawned on me

742
00:41:26,998 --> 00:41:28,918
I can't believe I've never thought of this before

743
00:41:28,918 --> 00:41:30,818
but it's a

744
00:41:30,818 --> 00:41:33,398
It's a hark back to my childhood.

745
00:41:34,198 --> 00:41:37,118
And there's a company here called McVitties.

746
00:41:37,578 --> 00:41:38,358
They make biscuits.

747
00:41:39,238 --> 00:41:39,938
They make chocolate.

748
00:41:39,971 --> 00:41:40,771
chocolate biscuits.

749
00:41:41,311 --> 00:41:42,611
And one of their chocolate biscuits

750
00:41:42,611 --> 00:41:44,731
is called Club Orange, man.

751
00:41:45,591 --> 00:41:47,411
Must be the best.

752
00:41:47,511 --> 00:41:48,671
Yeah, people will show me that.

753
00:41:49,431 --> 00:41:49,951
Yeah, nice.

754
00:41:49,951 --> 00:41:52,611
I can't believe I'd completely forgotten

755
00:41:52,611 --> 00:41:53,991
that thing ever existed.

756
00:41:54,211 --> 00:41:58,551
So I await now the lawsuit from McVitie's.

757
00:41:59,431 --> 00:42:01,271
Exactly, exactly.

758
00:42:01,871 --> 00:42:03,391
Well, here's the thing, honestly.

759
00:42:03,391 --> 00:42:04,151
Here's the thing.

760
00:42:06,351 --> 00:42:09,131
The reason why Orange found out about us

761
00:42:09,131 --> 00:42:11,831
is because we apply for a trademark.

762
00:42:13,951 --> 00:42:16,371
That's because obviously they're not going and, you know,

763
00:42:16,651 --> 00:42:17,511
but they have an alert.

764
00:42:17,591 --> 00:42:21,371
You can set an alert on the trademark database website.

765
00:42:22,851 --> 00:42:26,951
So this time we're not applying for a trademark,

766
00:42:27,871 --> 00:42:28,751
at least yet.

767
00:42:28,871 --> 00:42:30,111
I don't know, at least yet.

768
00:42:31,471 --> 00:42:34,511
We don't want to wake up a sleeping dog essentially.

769
00:42:34,511 --> 00:42:37,891
but

770
00:42:37,891 --> 00:42:39,391
you know

771
00:42:39,391 --> 00:42:42,471
there's also a soda in Ireland

772
00:42:42,471 --> 00:42:43,771
I think called Club Orange

773
00:42:43,771 --> 00:42:46,931
you know

774
00:42:46,931 --> 00:42:48,431
it's not

775
00:42:48,431 --> 00:42:50,871
a unique name, it's not that unique

776
00:42:50,871 --> 00:42:52,931
well this is something that

777
00:42:52,931 --> 00:42:55,111
you were bashing your head up against

778
00:42:55,111 --> 00:42:56,311
a brick wall when we were trying to

779
00:42:56,311 --> 00:42:58,491
I remember you put in our group chat

780
00:42:58,491 --> 00:42:59,811
we're going to rebrand

781
00:42:59,811 --> 00:43:02,351
we're going to rebrand, what should we call it

782
00:43:02,351 --> 00:43:07,531
uh i honestly thought you were just kidding the first week i'm like no you know he's gonna move

783
00:43:07,531 --> 00:43:14,891
on from this but no you kept at it i'm like oh fuck he's for real like okay this is interesting

784
00:43:14,891 --> 00:43:20,871
uh yeah that is a minefield right i mean you went down the rabbit hole of rebranding

785
00:43:20,871 --> 00:43:27,051
how many words to use in the title what kind of words so do you want to give us like that learning

786
00:43:27,051 --> 00:43:34,271
yeah yeah i think it's very i think it's fascinating so here's what i've learned so

787
00:43:34,271 --> 00:43:40,551
basically once we decided once we decided we're gonna rebrand i said okay let me let me study

788
00:43:40,551 --> 00:43:45,831
this thing all right let me study this thing so i got some books i watched some this i mean there's

789
00:43:45,831 --> 00:43:52,211
some youtube videos that are incredible honestly you can learn anything in like a weekend if you

790
00:43:52,211 --> 00:43:57,691
really say okay i'm gonna watch 10 youtube videos about rebranding or naming and you can find the

791
00:43:57,691 --> 00:44:05,171
world-class expert that just give you the rules so naming let's start with naming there has some

792
00:44:05,171 --> 00:44:15,491
there is some rules to a great name um so here they are number one the name should be ideally

793
00:44:15,491 --> 00:44:26,011
one word. Not one word, like, yeah, one word, but it should be two syllables. So, Netflix,

794
00:44:27,011 --> 00:44:36,931
TikTok, Facebook, Apple. So, this is the thing. So, number one, two syllables is the gold

795
00:44:36,931 --> 00:44:42,311
standard. If you can get two syllables, you're already halfway there. Number two, the name

796
00:44:42,311 --> 00:44:48,451
should be four letters to seven max, right?

797
00:44:48,911 --> 00:44:53,851
Like Netflix, Amazon, Google, Apple, you know, you name it.

798
00:44:54,731 --> 00:44:58,591
TikTok, six, Facebook, eight, you know,

799
00:44:58,831 --> 00:45:00,571
that definitely below 10 for sure.

800
00:45:01,571 --> 00:45:06,291
Now, our problem, by the way, Orange Pell Up is 13 letters,

801
00:45:06,891 --> 00:45:09,611
let alone the misspelling, plus the misspelling.

802
00:45:09,611 --> 00:45:16,651
So then the third rule is if you have to spell it out, it's a bad name.

803
00:45:17,471 --> 00:45:19,051
I don't care how clever you think it is.

804
00:45:19,251 --> 00:45:22,611
If you have to spell it, forget about it.

805
00:45:24,491 --> 00:45:26,291
You can go to the Nasdaq.

806
00:45:26,411 --> 00:45:27,091
I went there.

807
00:45:27,251 --> 00:45:30,871
Nasdaq, find the top 10 of 20 companies.

808
00:45:31,731 --> 00:45:33,291
Apple, Amazon, TikTok.

809
00:45:33,411 --> 00:45:38,451
By the way, TikTok, as much as I hate it, I never use it.

810
00:45:38,451 --> 00:45:40,111
I don't know if it once, I delete it immediately.

811
00:45:40,891 --> 00:45:43,691
It's probably the best name ever.

812
00:45:45,051 --> 00:45:51,011
Two syllables has repetition, tick-tock, double T.

813
00:45:51,311 --> 00:45:55,391
That's another trick, like Coca-Cola, right?

814
00:45:55,691 --> 00:45:56,471
That's a trick.

815
00:45:56,751 --> 00:45:59,071
The human brain likes repetitions.

816
00:45:59,071 --> 00:46:09,351
um yeah so the other thing is like so two syllables seven words seven seven letters

817
00:46:09,351 --> 00:46:16,531
uh another thing that i found out if you start the company the name start with the letter that

818
00:46:16,531 --> 00:46:27,011
is early in the alphabet it's a huge advantage apple amazon facebook google so a b c d e f g

819
00:46:27,011 --> 00:46:33,191
like half of the nasdaq start with the first seven letters i think the reason is because

820
00:46:33,191 --> 00:46:40,371
well you know i don't know if you know the story of uh apple the name uh so steve jobs used to work

821
00:46:40,371 --> 00:46:47,671
at atari as a you know as a kid and then uh he said oh i need to find because back then you had

822
00:46:47,671 --> 00:46:53,371
the telephone book right so you start with a b c and then he said well i want to have a name

823
00:46:53,371 --> 00:46:55,451
that comes before Atari.

824
00:46:56,131 --> 00:46:58,131
So AT, so Apple, AP.

825
00:46:59,211 --> 00:47:01,571
So there's a huge advantage of naming your company

826
00:47:01,571 --> 00:47:03,171
with an early letter.

827
00:47:04,131 --> 00:47:05,871
So A, B, C, D, E, F, G.

828
00:47:07,351 --> 00:47:11,271
You should not use the letter H.

829
00:47:12,731 --> 00:47:14,071
It's the most, yeah?

830
00:47:14,531 --> 00:47:16,091
Think about it.

831
00:47:16,091 --> 00:47:18,211
There's almost no company that starts with the letter H.

832
00:47:18,611 --> 00:47:20,391
That is successful, especially in tech.

833
00:47:20,391 --> 00:47:26,311
especially in tech because h is very easy to misspell it doesn't you know you don't pronounce

834
00:47:26,311 --> 00:47:33,351
the letter h it's like it's like aspirated you know what i'm saying yeah especially in france

835
00:47:33,351 --> 00:47:42,791
believe me yeah especially in Italy okay the only one i can think of is uh huawei right and uh the

836
00:47:42,791 --> 00:47:51,131
amount of times that must get uh mispronounced i mean yeah but how huawei it's more like a like a

837
00:47:51,131 --> 00:47:59,071
b2b business than a b2c it's more like corporate than like consumer facing you know like a product

838
00:47:59,071 --> 00:48:05,371
like like facebook or instagram you know or they make the phones right yes but i think that most

839
00:48:05,371 --> 00:48:10,531
of the business like uh corporation buying equipment i don't know the other thing i can

840
00:48:10,531 --> 00:48:17,191
think of just because you got me thinking now is yeah yeah that works that that's in your rules yeah

841
00:48:17,191 --> 00:48:24,131
five five letters you know it's very short uh two syllables and uh you know that kind of stuff

842
00:48:24,131 --> 00:48:29,631
uh and it always you know there's always exception to the rule like tesla is very successful start

843
00:48:29,631 --> 00:48:37,571
with the t uh but if you look at the you know bmw ford so here's another rules by the way

844
00:48:37,571 --> 00:48:43,271
there are five letters that makes your name unique.

845
00:48:43,531 --> 00:48:46,271
So we should start by saying, what is the role of a name?

846
00:48:47,271 --> 00:48:49,271
Because that's actually the starting point.

847
00:48:50,131 --> 00:48:53,471
And most people think the name should tell what the company does.

848
00:48:54,551 --> 00:48:56,211
And it's the opposite of that.

849
00:48:56,711 --> 00:48:59,471
The name should not tell what the company does, ever.

850
00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:01,291
Why?

851
00:49:02,091 --> 00:49:07,411
Because as a founder, like I built the app,

852
00:49:07,411 --> 00:49:08,131
I built the product.

853
00:49:08,651 --> 00:49:10,351
The product that I built

854
00:49:10,351 --> 00:49:12,051
only exists in my mind.

855
00:49:14,291 --> 00:49:16,411
Like we have 19,000 members,

856
00:49:17,431 --> 00:49:20,471
which means there are 19,000 versions

857
00:49:20,471 --> 00:49:21,631
of Club Orange.

858
00:49:22,771 --> 00:49:24,491
Everybody has his own ideas

859
00:49:24,491 --> 00:49:26,351
about what the app does.

860
00:49:27,511 --> 00:49:29,611
And so you don't want to box people

861
00:49:29,611 --> 00:49:30,751
into a name.

862
00:49:31,851 --> 00:49:33,811
Like Apple doesn't call itself

863
00:49:33,811 --> 00:49:35,591
cool computers

864
00:49:35,591 --> 00:49:38,971
or Tesla doesn't call itself electric cars.

865
00:49:40,291 --> 00:49:44,131
The name, it basically should evoke an emotion

866
00:49:44,131 --> 00:49:47,651
or should have some, it's kind of like a canvas

867
00:49:47,651 --> 00:49:52,131
where the user can paint whatever they want.

868
00:49:54,271 --> 00:49:55,731
So like, what is Apple?

869
00:49:55,871 --> 00:49:57,531
If I ask you, what is Apple to you?

870
00:49:58,711 --> 00:50:01,271
Well, if you didn't know, you wouldn't know.

871
00:50:01,371 --> 00:50:02,351
Same with Nike, right?

872
00:50:02,451 --> 00:50:03,751
You would not know.

873
00:50:03,751 --> 00:50:12,231
even if you were to see like the nike logo you'd have no idea what they would do like exactly

874
00:50:12,231 --> 00:50:19,891
what's the most yeah but it's one of the most iconic logo ever yep um because and then we can

875
00:50:19,891 --> 00:50:24,491
talk about logo next but so basically the name should just be a canvas for the user

876
00:50:24,491 --> 00:50:30,771
to paint a picture that they have in their mind about your product your company

877
00:50:30,771 --> 00:50:38,791
and that's rule number one rule number two is that it's it's obviously it's it's easy to remember

878
00:50:38,791 --> 00:50:45,611
so it has to be short and rule number three has to be memorable now how you make a name memorable

879
00:50:45,611 --> 00:50:58,391
there's actually a secret there's five letters that makes names memorable which is z y k w and j

880
00:51:00,771 --> 00:51:12,511
If you can put these letters in your name, like Amazon as the C, Facebook as the K, Netflix as the X.

881
00:51:12,731 --> 00:51:13,651
I forgot about X.

882
00:51:14,331 --> 00:51:15,571
X, it's a great name.

883
00:51:15,771 --> 00:51:17,151
SpaceX, FedEx.

884
00:51:18,431 --> 00:51:27,831
Because the human brain, the more rare is a word, the easier is to remember that word instead of A or B or C.

885
00:51:27,831 --> 00:51:30,111
Because C is such a common word.

886
00:51:30,111 --> 00:51:31,811
I think C is the most common word, by the way.

887
00:51:33,891 --> 00:51:37,371
So you had to put some memorable, you know, it's basically like,

888
00:51:37,931 --> 00:51:42,951
like if you go to a cocktail party and if you wear something that is unique,

889
00:51:43,151 --> 00:51:45,811
you're going to be more memorable than everybody else.

890
00:51:46,411 --> 00:51:47,751
It's the same, same idea with the name.

891
00:51:48,191 --> 00:51:53,631
You put one of these X, Z, Y, K, W, your name is going to stand.

892
00:51:53,691 --> 00:51:55,071
It's going to be easy to remember.

893
00:51:55,071 --> 00:52:10,557
and so you know we couldn fit any of those letters in club orange you know and what about acronyms because obviously there some huge ones like bmw ibm yeah so that another problem by the way that that was another problem with orange

894
00:52:10,557 --> 00:52:17,677
club that is so long that people start doing uh acronym acronym i don't know how to say that acronym

895
00:52:17,677 --> 00:52:26,317
yeah opa opa yeah which sounds cool yeah then you type opa nothing come up yeah right you can't find

896
00:52:26,317 --> 00:52:32,177
anything so that's a huge problem in fact you know at some point i was starting to use in opa

897
00:52:32,177 --> 00:52:36,837
and then i watched some video that's what's like the beginning i watched some video about naming

898
00:52:36,837 --> 00:52:42,657
i was like you don't want to do that until your brand is so popular like ibm is is actually

899
00:52:42,657 --> 00:52:49,037
international business machines something like that but now you know after after a while you

900
00:52:49,037 --> 00:52:53,577
know everybody knows that you know it's it but you don't want to use a short version of your name

901
00:52:53,577 --> 00:52:57,877
until your name is so dominant in the brain of the user.

902
00:52:58,757 --> 00:53:00,437
So OPA was a huge problem for us.

903
00:53:01,157 --> 00:53:03,717
Another reason why we had to change the name.

904
00:53:05,117 --> 00:53:09,237
Yeah, acronym, it's not good to start off.

905
00:53:10,277 --> 00:53:11,857
It's good after a while.

906
00:53:12,457 --> 00:53:14,297
Actually, no, it's never good, honestly,

907
00:53:14,297 --> 00:53:17,357
because that means your name is too long.

908
00:53:19,657 --> 00:53:21,897
That what it means is that the name is too long.

909
00:53:21,897 --> 00:53:24,517
the human brain doesn't want to spell all your name

910
00:53:24,517 --> 00:53:25,777
so it starts

911
00:53:25,777 --> 00:53:28,077
shortening like Tesla

912
00:53:28,077 --> 00:53:30,257
or Apple or Amazon there's no economon

913
00:53:30,257 --> 00:53:32,277
for that because the name is short

914
00:53:32,277 --> 00:53:32,657
right

915
00:53:32,657 --> 00:53:34,657
and so

916
00:53:34,657 --> 00:53:37,657
yeah that's not a good thing

917
00:53:37,657 --> 00:53:39,257
if people start using economon

918
00:53:39,257 --> 00:53:40,837
you know you have a problem

919
00:53:40,837 --> 00:53:43,157
anyway so that's on naming

920
00:53:43,157 --> 00:53:45,637
so now we can go to logo

921
00:53:45,637 --> 00:53:48,977
so what is a logo

922
00:53:48,977 --> 00:53:49,837
what does a logo do

923
00:53:49,837 --> 00:53:53,337
So the logo, again, should not tell what the company does.

924
00:53:54,157 --> 00:53:55,837
You know, shouldn't be...

925
00:53:56,497 --> 00:54:00,697
Again, the most, I think, in my mind, the two most popular logos

926
00:54:00,697 --> 00:54:02,137
is Nike and McDonald's.

927
00:54:03,537 --> 00:54:06,297
Like, if you think of logos, Nike and McDonald's is, like,

928
00:54:06,757 --> 00:54:09,697
probably the most famous one.

929
00:54:10,317 --> 00:54:12,537
Obviously, McDonald's doesn't have a burger in it,

930
00:54:12,877 --> 00:54:14,037
doesn't have fries in it.

931
00:54:15,697 --> 00:54:18,277
So the rules for a logo that I've learned is, like, one,

932
00:54:18,277 --> 00:54:20,697
a five-year-old should be able to draw it.

933
00:54:21,837 --> 00:54:22,897
If a five-year-old

934
00:54:22,897 --> 00:54:24,477
cannot draw it, it's not a good logo.

935
00:54:24,977 --> 00:54:25,517
So Nike,

936
00:54:26,637 --> 00:54:27,637
McDonald's, right?

937
00:54:29,077 --> 00:54:30,637
Two, it should evoke

938
00:54:30,637 --> 00:54:31,237
an emotion.

939
00:54:32,357 --> 00:54:34,177
You look at the logo, it should feel something.

940
00:54:36,617 --> 00:54:37,957
That's really the goal, right?

941
00:54:37,997 --> 00:54:40,257
Because then you are emotionally attached to that logo.

942
00:54:41,597 --> 00:54:42,497
So it has to be

943
00:54:42,497 --> 00:54:43,637
simple, obviously.

944
00:54:44,097 --> 00:54:46,077
Again, that a five-year-old can draw it.

945
00:54:46,077 --> 00:54:48,437
and

946
00:54:48,437 --> 00:54:51,137
and so you know what happened with

947
00:54:51,137 --> 00:54:53,077
we struggled with the logo a lot

948
00:54:53,077 --> 00:54:55,457
because I hired somebody

949
00:54:55,457 --> 00:54:57,597
he did something, he wasn't a big corner

950
00:54:57,597 --> 00:54:59,377
so it's another thing that I've learned

951
00:54:59,377 --> 00:55:01,477
it's much easier

952
00:55:01,477 --> 00:55:03,357
to work with big corners than non-big corners

953
00:55:03,357 --> 00:55:04,917
when you have a big coin company

954
00:55:04,917 --> 00:55:07,177
because they already know the

955
00:55:07,177 --> 00:55:08,357
ethos, they already know

956
00:55:08,357 --> 00:55:11,217
the community, so eventually I found

957
00:55:11,217 --> 00:55:13,497
a guy in Sweden

958
00:55:13,497 --> 00:55:14,957
his name is Chris

959
00:55:14,957 --> 00:55:17,797
and he made like literally at the last minute

960
00:55:17,797 --> 00:55:19,977
it's like I'm not convinced of this

961
00:55:19,977 --> 00:55:22,097
logo like I really didn't feel

962
00:55:22,097 --> 00:55:23,977
good about the logo so I found this

963
00:55:23,977 --> 00:55:25,777
guy and he made a login like a weekend

964
00:55:25,777 --> 00:55:28,257
which was the orange slices

965
00:55:28,257 --> 00:55:29,797
right the original

966
00:55:29,797 --> 00:55:31,537
and then I'm like

967
00:55:31,537 --> 00:55:34,177
you know orange

968
00:55:34,177 --> 00:55:35,877
club orange I don't know about that

969
00:55:35,877 --> 00:55:38,077
so I start playing with the slices

970
00:55:38,077 --> 00:55:40,117
and

971
00:55:40,117 --> 00:55:41,517
then I remove one

972
00:55:41,517 --> 00:55:44,237
and so one thing to do is like you can remove

973
00:55:44,237 --> 00:55:45,717
removing is better than adding.

974
00:55:47,997 --> 00:55:50,597
And, you know, oh, this was cool, you know,

975
00:55:50,637 --> 00:55:52,297
like an aperture to the club,

976
00:55:53,397 --> 00:55:56,897
like a keyhole of the, you know, of the club

977
00:55:56,897 --> 00:55:58,617
or a keyhole to the community.

978
00:56:00,137 --> 00:56:01,477
And so we end up with this logo,

979
00:56:01,537 --> 00:56:02,897
which I think is actually a great logo

980
00:56:02,897 --> 00:56:05,457
now that I've, you know, that I spent some time with it.

981
00:56:05,537 --> 00:56:09,677
The more I spend time, actually, the more I like the logo.

982
00:56:10,297 --> 00:56:11,877
But yeah, so logo, it's like, again,

983
00:56:11,877 --> 00:56:16,217
And the mistake that most people do is like, oh, the logo should tell what the company does.

984
00:56:16,357 --> 00:56:16,557
No.

985
00:56:17,477 --> 00:56:25,017
In fact, McDonald's is a much bigger company than Burger King because Burger King has burger in the name and in the logo.

986
00:56:26,237 --> 00:56:28,177
I promise you that makes a difference.

987
00:56:30,317 --> 00:56:37,597
And so that's kind of, you know, that's kind of the all I've learned about logo and branding and naming.

988
00:56:38,417 --> 00:56:39,037
That's cool.

989
00:56:39,117 --> 00:56:40,517
And I got to meet Chris in Manchester.

990
00:56:41,237 --> 00:56:41,857
Oh, yeah.

991
00:56:41,877 --> 00:56:49,777
We were introduced, Rick Messy introduced me because he's been helping Rick out with branding of the lottery that Rick's just launched.

992
00:56:50,617 --> 00:56:54,317
And yeah, he said, yeah, I've done some work in the Bitcoin space.

993
00:56:54,497 --> 00:56:56,597
I'm like, OK, cool. Where have I seen you work?

994
00:56:56,657 --> 00:57:01,117
He's like, oh, I've recently done like a design for Orange Palab.

995
00:57:01,257 --> 00:57:04,017
And I'm like, what? That's you? That's amazing.

996
00:57:05,077 --> 00:57:08,717
He had no idea that I was, you know, part of your advisory board.

997
00:57:08,717 --> 00:57:10,097
So that was a nice touch.

998
00:57:10,097 --> 00:57:15,577
and then i put him in touch with the bitcoin racing guys because uh we're like dude do you

999
00:57:15,577 --> 00:57:22,777
want to design a race car this would be cool oh yeah so i hope something comes of that and uh yeah

1000
00:57:22,777 --> 00:57:28,697
shout out to chris uh is it sovereign designer is that his twitter handle or something like that i

1001
00:57:28,697 --> 00:57:35,717
think it's yes yes yes yes right okay good i think i've got the right shout out there uh yeah all

1002
00:57:35,717 --> 00:57:39,717
Right. So that is super interesting shit.

1003
00:57:41,657 --> 00:57:43,137
What should we move on to next?

1004
00:57:43,137 --> 00:57:47,457
I think because you're rolling out new features all the time,

1005
00:57:48,017 --> 00:57:52,757
hard to keep up with the ideas that you're having and the ability that you

1006
00:57:52,757 --> 00:57:57,017
guys have now to get straight to market within weeks,

1007
00:57:57,417 --> 00:58:00,757
like you float an idea, it gets pinged around the chat.

1008
00:58:01,097 --> 00:58:03,797
It gets honed a little bit.

1009
00:58:03,797 --> 00:58:09,357
and then it's like wow okay that's already live like what how the hell are you doing that

1010
00:58:09,357 --> 00:58:17,637
ai honestly yeah it's a game changer which one well for coding the best one is clode

1011
00:58:17,637 --> 00:58:25,097
clode.ai it's you know that's that's a specialty it's just uh mind-blowing uh we honestly this is

1012
00:58:25,097 --> 00:58:32,177
crazy but we have less developer now than a year ago and we're shipping so much faster

1013
00:58:32,177 --> 00:58:34,137
I didn't fire them

1014
00:58:34,137 --> 00:58:34,977
by the way I didn't fire

1015
00:58:34,977 --> 00:58:36,417
they're like

1016
00:58:36,417 --> 00:58:40,237
founders essential of the company

1017
00:58:40,237 --> 00:58:44,137
but I found this guy

1018
00:58:44,137 --> 00:58:45,677
on the app by the way

1019
00:58:45,677 --> 00:58:47,557
I found this guy on the app Quentin

1020
00:58:47,557 --> 00:58:50,157
it's a funny story because he was

1021
00:58:50,157 --> 00:58:52,317
in Argentina when I met him

1022
00:58:52,317 --> 00:58:53,597
you know people

1023
00:58:53,597 --> 00:58:55,857
all the time they message me on the app

1024
00:58:55,857 --> 00:58:56,957
hey you know I'm a developer

1025
00:58:56,957 --> 00:59:00,217
if you ever need help

1026
00:59:00,217 --> 00:59:02,097
let me know I get this message

1027
00:59:02,097 --> 00:59:03,717
at least once a week.

1028
00:59:04,817 --> 00:59:08,757
And I used to say, oh, great, you know, you're ready on the app,

1029
00:59:08,797 --> 00:59:10,637
so we know what we do, let's work together.

1030
00:59:11,277 --> 00:59:14,937
What I've learned is that, this might sound harsh,

1031
00:59:15,197 --> 00:59:17,777
but what I've learned is that great developers,

1032
00:59:18,777 --> 00:59:20,737
you don't find them on the street,

1033
00:59:21,597 --> 00:59:23,777
meaning they're really working at some company,

1034
00:59:24,317 --> 00:59:29,057
which is also why, you know, at the highest level of software companies,

1035
00:59:29,057 --> 00:59:32,557
they don't hire, they poach from one company to another

1036
00:59:32,557 --> 00:59:36,417
because you won't find a great developer unemployed.

1037
00:59:36,717 --> 00:59:37,917
It just doesn't work like that.

1038
00:59:39,197 --> 00:59:43,217
So anyway, so this guy messaged me

1039
00:59:43,217 --> 00:59:44,977
and I said, yeah, sure.

1040
00:59:45,117 --> 00:59:45,737
You know what I do.

1041
00:59:45,817 --> 00:59:47,337
Usually I give them a little project.

1042
00:59:47,877 --> 00:59:48,057
All right.

1043
00:59:48,677 --> 00:59:49,017
It's okay.

1044
00:59:49,277 --> 00:59:50,097
Let's do a project.

1045
00:59:50,377 --> 00:59:51,137
Let's see how it goes.

1046
00:59:52,017 --> 00:59:53,677
And although I'm not technical myself,

1047
00:59:53,677 --> 00:59:56,097
I've worked with so many developers in my life,

1048
00:59:56,257 --> 00:59:58,437
maybe not thousands, but hundreds.

1049
00:59:59,057 --> 01:00:01,437
that I can tell if you're a good developer or not,

1050
01:00:01,837 --> 01:00:03,677
even though myself, I can't code, right?

1051
01:00:04,637 --> 01:00:06,057
So anyway, so I give a project,

1052
01:00:06,517 --> 01:00:08,417
and he did it in like one day or two.

1053
01:00:08,517 --> 01:00:09,937
I said, okay, good job.

1054
01:00:10,077 --> 01:00:12,817
Let's keep going down that path of more little projects.

1055
01:00:12,977 --> 01:00:14,477
Eventually, I said, okay, you're pretty good.

1056
01:00:15,657 --> 01:00:19,277
And so the funny thing is like I told my wife,

1057
01:00:19,797 --> 01:00:21,497
oh, I found this developer in Argentina.

1058
01:00:22,397 --> 01:00:24,397
She works for a big tech company.

1059
01:00:24,657 --> 01:00:27,917
So yeah, we use developers in Colombia.

1060
01:00:27,917 --> 01:00:29,977
you know, it's famous

1061
01:00:29,977 --> 01:00:31,497
it's Latin America

1062
01:00:31,497 --> 01:00:33,997
it's famous for great developers, they're obviously

1063
01:00:33,997 --> 01:00:35,077
cheaper and

1064
01:00:35,077 --> 01:00:38,077
they work really well, I said, oh okay

1065
01:00:38,077 --> 01:00:40,137
that's interesting, I would never think

1066
01:00:40,137 --> 01:00:42,237
there are good developers in Argentina

1067
01:00:42,237 --> 01:00:44,317
being Italian

1068
01:00:44,317 --> 01:00:46,237
I know that most Argentinians come from

1069
01:00:46,237 --> 01:00:47,497
Italy, you know, it's like

1070
01:00:47,497 --> 01:00:50,237
I'm gonna lose all the

1071
01:00:50,237 --> 01:00:51,417
Argentinian members now

1072
01:00:51,417 --> 01:00:54,317
anyway, so here's what I

1073
01:00:54,317 --> 01:00:56,117
then one day I'm like

1074
01:00:56,117 --> 01:00:57,517
I'm talking to this guy, Quentin.

1075
01:00:57,517 --> 01:00:59,277
And it's like, oh, you know,

1076
01:00:59,457 --> 01:01:01,337
I see a different background in the image,

1077
01:01:01,717 --> 01:01:02,517
in the video.

1078
01:01:03,737 --> 01:01:05,057
I said, oh, did you move house?

1079
01:01:05,157 --> 01:01:06,197
Yes, I mean Chile.

1080
01:01:07,197 --> 01:01:07,837
I'm like, Chile?

1081
01:01:07,997 --> 01:01:09,077
I thought you were from Argentina.

1082
01:01:09,217 --> 01:01:10,457
Oh, no, no, I'm from France.

1083
01:01:11,057 --> 01:01:11,917
I'm like, what do you mean from France?

1084
01:01:12,357 --> 01:01:14,877
So for months, I've been talking to this guy in Argentina.

1085
01:01:15,037 --> 01:01:17,417
Essentially, it basically was a nomad life.

1086
01:01:18,857 --> 01:01:20,017
So as a French guy,

1087
01:01:21,017 --> 01:01:22,817
actually, all of the developers are European,

1088
01:01:23,237 --> 01:01:24,897
the Italians and French.

1089
01:01:24,897 --> 01:01:27,577
and well I had a US one

1090
01:01:27,577 --> 01:01:29,617
anyway so what happened

1091
01:01:29,617 --> 01:01:31,297
is this guy is very young

1092
01:01:31,297 --> 01:01:33,077
never

1093
01:01:33,077 --> 01:01:35,837
done anything with mobile in his life

1094
01:01:35,837 --> 01:01:36,397
never

1095
01:01:36,397 --> 01:01:39,557
and then it's like okay you know

1096
01:01:39,557 --> 01:01:41,057
let's work

1097
01:01:41,057 --> 01:01:43,677
come full time work for us

1098
01:01:43,677 --> 01:01:45,397
so I flew into Los Angeles

1099
01:01:45,397 --> 01:01:47,637
I want to meet you before I hire you

1100
01:01:47,637 --> 01:01:49,577
we went to all the places

1101
01:01:49,577 --> 01:01:51,537
and then I'm like okay great

1102
01:01:51,537 --> 01:01:53,657
now you're full time so you have to learn

1103
01:01:53,657 --> 01:01:55,857
how to do iOS and Android

1104
01:01:55,857 --> 01:01:56,717
developing.

1105
01:01:57,537 --> 01:01:58,957
The guy had never done anything like that.

1106
01:01:59,017 --> 01:02:01,397
It's also like web infrastructure, stuff like that.

1107
01:02:02,677 --> 01:02:03,397
And then he just

1108
01:02:03,397 --> 01:02:05,397
did it

1109
01:02:05,397 --> 01:02:06,197
with AI.

1110
01:02:08,377 --> 01:02:09,297
Essentially from

1111
01:02:09,297 --> 01:02:11,657
nothing to pretty good.

1112
01:02:12,117 --> 01:02:13,677
I mean, you've seen the features,

1113
01:02:14,137 --> 01:02:14,657
the work.

1114
01:02:17,677 --> 01:02:19,417
I think he built

1115
01:02:19,417 --> 01:02:21,537
the wallet. Yeah. He built the entire

1116
01:02:21,537 --> 01:02:22,337
wallet by himself.

1117
01:02:22,337 --> 01:02:24,317
the infrastructure

1118
01:02:24,317 --> 01:02:40,163
I mean by itself with AI right and so yeah super fast work i don know 25 hours a day i don know how he does it and yeah we ship all the stuff uh actually something that will be out by the time

1119
01:02:40,163 --> 01:02:45,863
this podcast is out is video messages which i think is going to be really cool i'm already

1120
01:02:45,863 --> 01:02:51,503
addicted to that thing um okay so we got the wallet right he shipped the wallet that was

1121
01:02:51,503 --> 01:02:57,343
incredible that was and it really worked really really well so well in fact that you had to up

1122
01:02:57,343 --> 01:03:02,683
your uh your inbound and outbound liquidity because like people were using it immediately

1123
01:03:02,683 --> 01:03:10,543
well the geozapping honestly the geozapping like 97 percent of our uh activity on the wallet is

1124
01:03:10,543 --> 01:03:19,303
geozapping is the best we had uh so we launched a wallet 10 months ago actually funny story i will

1125
01:03:19,303 --> 01:03:25,943
never forget in my life when i launched the wallet well i know why because i was literally at the

1126
01:03:25,943 --> 01:03:34,023
hospital while my wife was giving birth to my son amazing she's on the she's on the bed i'm on the

1127
01:03:34,023 --> 01:03:42,383
chair and i'm like click and the newsletter uh you know it's crazy story but anyway so we launched

1128
01:03:42,383 --> 01:03:52,763
a while 10 months ago and we have done 3.2 million transactions in 10 months and 97 is

1129
01:03:52,763 --> 01:04:01,163
geo zapping so geo zapping essentially is you can type a city a country a continent now we can

1130
01:04:01,163 --> 01:04:07,763
even do zip codes you can tell whatever you want that is that is put a radius in right uh when i

1131
01:04:07,763 --> 01:04:16,743
When I was in York, I typed in 200 miles and I zapped everybody within 200 miles of me to say, listen, if you've missed it, there's an event tomorrow at PubKey.

1132
01:04:17,043 --> 01:04:17,943
Be great to see you.

1133
01:04:18,203 --> 01:04:23,143
Like this is it's and I attach like 21 sets to it or whatever it is.

1134
01:04:23,443 --> 01:04:24,863
It's such a great feature.

1135
01:04:24,863 --> 01:04:31,323
I think it's the most underrated or under talked about feature released in Bitcoin this year.

1136
01:04:31,543 --> 01:04:37,263
Geo zapping because it's it's very much the the idea of hash cash.

1137
01:04:37,363 --> 01:04:37,543
Right.

1138
01:04:37,543 --> 01:04:47,263
I can now send, I can mass send a message across Orange Pill app, but I have to attach some value to that.

1139
01:04:47,843 --> 01:04:52,543
And it's up to you as the receiver, whether you even open it or not, but you get the stats.

1140
01:04:53,323 --> 01:04:54,543
You get the stats.

1141
01:04:55,043 --> 01:04:55,983
It's amazing.

1142
01:04:56,323 --> 01:04:56,763
Yeah, yeah.

1143
01:04:56,763 --> 01:05:04,063
I mean, we accidentally, I think, built an advertising platform on Bitcoin.

1144
01:05:04,063 --> 01:05:08,263
You know, we have companies like Unchain is very active.

1145
01:05:08,583 --> 01:05:13,223
You know, they send the blog posts, YouTuber, they promote the YouTube channel.

1146
01:05:13,483 --> 01:05:14,683
Obviously, it's all about Bitcoin.

1147
01:05:16,403 --> 01:05:20,603
Yeah, so GeoZaping, yeah, it's been amazing.

1148
01:05:20,743 --> 01:05:21,283
It's been amazing.

1149
01:05:21,903 --> 01:05:25,203
It's basically kind of a novel application on the Latin network.

1150
01:05:27,003 --> 01:05:30,463
So very proud that, I mean, by the way, a user told me,

1151
01:05:30,463 --> 01:05:34,023
hey, wouldn't it be cool that you can sub people based on their location?

1152
01:05:34,063 --> 01:05:35,663
Oh, actually, yes.

1153
01:05:35,763 --> 01:05:36,363
Let's build that.

1154
01:05:37,783 --> 01:05:40,103
And, yeah, so the wallet, it's very cool.

1155
01:05:40,263 --> 01:05:43,643
By the way, so people that don't know, it's a regular lighting wallet.

1156
01:05:43,923 --> 01:05:46,903
So you can use it to bring voices, to kind of cool.

1157
01:05:46,903 --> 01:05:47,083
Yep.

1158
01:05:47,483 --> 01:05:49,143
I've got beers with it at BTC Prague.

1159
01:05:50,023 --> 01:05:50,603
Yeah, yeah.

1160
01:05:51,523 --> 01:06:01,943
Basically, it's a regular lighting wallet with these extra features like geode zapping, proximity zapping, which is what you described.

1161
01:06:01,943 --> 01:06:06,863
you can type a distance up everybody in your proximity and also we put it like everywhere

1162
01:06:06,863 --> 01:06:13,503
like group chat you can zap everybody in a group chat uh event you can zap everybody that's going

1163
01:06:13,503 --> 01:06:20,503
to an event so we we're doing phase zap you if you can oh yes i was gonna get onto that because

1164
01:06:20,503 --> 01:06:25,863
then came the video calls uh well first of all was just the voice calls right yeah and then became

1165
01:06:25,863 --> 01:06:30,863
video calls and then the video calls that was the best when you when you video called me and said

1166
01:06:30,863 --> 01:06:32,083
You write, Princey, watch this.

1167
01:06:32,443 --> 01:06:36,383
And you tap the screen and I get the little lightning strike just like float up.

1168
01:06:36,843 --> 01:06:37,543
I'm like, whoa.

1169
01:06:37,603 --> 01:06:39,803
And then one sat turns up in my wallet.

1170
01:06:39,803 --> 01:06:45,803
I don't know what people are going to use it for, but it's fucking cool and fun.

1171
01:06:46,563 --> 01:06:48,163
So you can just build things.

1172
01:06:49,003 --> 01:06:49,843
You can just build things.

1173
01:06:49,963 --> 01:06:50,063
Yeah.

1174
01:06:50,423 --> 01:06:56,883
We have also tap zap, meaning now you can double tap.

1175
01:06:57,103 --> 01:07:00,663
It used to be one tap on a message and you send a sat.

1176
01:07:00,863 --> 01:07:02,763
which is like nobody's going to complain for one side.

1177
01:07:03,083 --> 01:07:04,143
No, actually they do.

1178
01:07:04,883 --> 01:07:07,143
So now we change it to double tap.

1179
01:07:07,783 --> 01:07:09,023
So it's not accidental.

1180
01:07:09,243 --> 01:07:12,663
So if you double tap on a message, you send one side to them.

1181
01:07:12,923 --> 01:07:15,163
It's kind of like likes, but with value.

1182
01:07:16,223 --> 01:07:19,943
Yeah, I mean, there's so many way to people on Club Orange

1183
01:07:19,943 --> 01:07:21,543
and people love it.

1184
01:07:22,583 --> 01:07:25,863
Sometimes people ask me, hey, why am I receiving all these sides?

1185
01:07:25,983 --> 01:07:27,623
You know, there's this thing and that.

1186
01:07:27,623 --> 01:07:34,283
my prediction is in like 10 years from now somebody will like forget they have a membership

1187
01:07:34,283 --> 01:07:38,963
on club orange you know whatever they go back to the was a way i have i could buy a car

1188
01:07:38,963 --> 01:07:43,943
you know when bitcoin is like one million dollar or two million dollars and they have like

1189
01:07:43,943 --> 01:07:49,043
10 000 sats that that's true right because even somebody that's not gone through the login the

1190
01:07:49,043 --> 01:07:56,683
full login process or how does it work yeah as long as you have an account you can receive sats

1191
01:07:56,683 --> 01:08:03,583
as long as you have an account yeah you might not be active but you have an account yep and if you'd

1192
01:08:03,583 --> 01:08:09,023
have paid for that year for example that year that you'd have paid for all of those sats that you'd

1193
01:08:09,023 --> 01:08:15,403
have received from geos apps people promoting events or whatever would land in your account

1194
01:08:15,403 --> 01:08:22,643
so you just yeah you're right man people are gonna find those sats yeah it's gonna be like uh like a

1195
01:08:22,643 --> 01:08:28,123
treasure chest that you have in your basement you forgot i had oh i had this gold coin from

1196
01:08:28,123 --> 01:08:34,483
30 years ago and i was so much more the same thing is going to happen with these sats in i don't know

1197
01:08:34,483 --> 01:08:42,103
five ten years you know my wife is on the app and obviously she doesn't use it and i actually

1198
01:08:42,103 --> 01:08:51,023
you know i actually use her to see her balance because she doesn't use anything so all the

1199
01:08:51,023 --> 01:08:52,743
that she receives from GeoZap.

1200
01:08:53,343 --> 01:08:56,343
So I use that as a measure of like,

1201
01:08:56,903 --> 01:08:58,543
okay, if you don't use the app at all,

1202
01:08:58,603 --> 01:08:59,443
but you are on the app,

1203
01:08:59,523 --> 01:09:00,503
like how many stats are you getting?

1204
01:09:00,563 --> 01:09:01,743
She has more than a thousand stats.

1205
01:09:03,503 --> 01:09:05,163
And we launched it, what, 10 months ago.

1206
01:09:05,903 --> 01:09:06,863
So it's like, you know,

1207
01:09:06,923 --> 01:09:08,743
and more people are signing up every day

1208
01:09:08,743 --> 01:09:10,463
and more companies sign up every day

1209
01:09:10,463 --> 01:09:14,023
and more people are learning about GeoZap every day,

1210
01:09:14,383 --> 01:09:17,123
which means, yeah, GeoZap is going to be a,

1211
01:09:17,123 --> 01:09:18,323
yeah, it's going to be a huge deal.

1212
01:09:19,323 --> 01:09:19,463
Yeah.

1213
01:09:19,463 --> 01:09:21,683
no I think it's a great great feature

1214
01:09:21,683 --> 01:09:23,543
all right we're on GeoZap

1215
01:09:23,543 --> 01:09:25,183
we're on FaceApps, we're on Wallet

1216
01:09:25,183 --> 01:09:27,623
by the way before I forget

1217
01:09:27,623 --> 01:09:29,583
GeoZap is also amazing

1218
01:09:29,583 --> 01:09:30,343
for one

1219
01:09:30,343 --> 01:09:32,583
use case

1220
01:09:32,583 --> 01:09:35,363
natural disaster aid

1221
01:09:35,363 --> 01:09:38,443
because you know

1222
01:09:38,443 --> 01:09:40,863
basically if you're

1223
01:09:40,863 --> 01:09:42,743
so let's say there is a

1224
01:09:42,743 --> 01:09:45,203
says there is a earthquake in Los Angeles

1225
01:09:45,203 --> 01:09:47,203
actually let's say there is a fire

1226
01:09:47,203 --> 01:09:47,823
in Los Angeles

1227
01:09:47,823 --> 01:09:51,003
as a random

1228
01:09:51,003 --> 01:09:53,263
tool. Now you can

1229
01:09:53,263 --> 01:09:55,043
go on the app

1230
01:09:55,043 --> 01:09:57,383
from anywhere on earth

1231
01:09:57,383 --> 01:09:59,463
and you can type Los Angeles

1232
01:09:59,463 --> 01:10:01,223
and you can send SaaS

1233
01:10:01,223 --> 01:10:02,303
to people in Los Angeles

1234
01:10:02,303 --> 01:10:05,163
without asking for an invoice,

1235
01:10:05,423 --> 01:10:07,383
without asking for a GoFund page,

1236
01:10:08,703 --> 01:10:11,523
which is very interesting

1237
01:10:11,523 --> 01:10:13,183
use case

1238
01:10:13,183 --> 01:10:15,143
that you can unilaterally send SaaS

1239
01:10:15,143 --> 01:10:16,883
to somebody based on their location

1240
01:10:16,883 --> 01:10:19,783
without them doing anything.

1241
01:10:21,083 --> 01:10:22,023
So I think also the

1242
01:10:22,023 --> 01:10:24,723
National Disaster Relief Aid,

1243
01:10:25,083 --> 01:10:27,403
it's also going to be a huge use case.

1244
01:10:27,543 --> 01:10:28,783
Or you can just donate to,

1245
01:10:28,903 --> 01:10:29,343
I don't know,

1246
01:10:29,883 --> 01:10:32,323
a country in Africa or whatever.

1247
01:10:32,483 --> 01:10:32,963
Hong Kong,

1248
01:10:33,223 --> 01:10:34,363
I don't know,

1249
01:10:34,463 --> 01:10:36,083
Hong Kong may be not a good example.

1250
01:10:37,523 --> 01:10:38,543
But, you know,

1251
01:10:38,723 --> 01:10:40,143
so here's the best example.

1252
01:10:40,383 --> 01:10:40,723
Canada.

1253
01:10:41,563 --> 01:10:43,063
Remember the trucker convoy?

1254
01:10:44,463 --> 01:10:45,543
Remember the mess

1255
01:10:45,543 --> 01:10:47,303
that is the...

1256
01:10:47,303 --> 01:10:49,323
You could, obviously, we didn't

1257
01:10:49,323 --> 01:10:51,363
exist back then, but

1258
01:10:51,363 --> 01:10:53,423
you could have gone to the house, say, Canada

1259
01:10:53,423 --> 01:10:55,583
or a city where there was the...

1260
01:10:55,583 --> 01:10:56,863
You can just send us out

1261
01:10:56,863 --> 01:10:58,543
from anywhere on Earth

1262
01:10:58,543 --> 01:11:01,203
without being in Canada, without having an invoice.

1263
01:11:01,963 --> 01:11:03,183
Basically, no tracing

1264
01:11:03,183 --> 01:11:05,283
because, you know, there's no

1265
01:11:05,283 --> 01:11:06,843
tracing. The lighting is very private,

1266
01:11:07,303 --> 01:11:09,203
obviously, and it's

1267
01:11:09,203 --> 01:11:11,023
custodial wallet, so it's even more private.

1268
01:11:11,563 --> 01:11:13,423
It's from our node, essentially.

1269
01:11:14,323 --> 01:11:15,283
You know, obviously, you can withdraw

1270
01:11:15,283 --> 01:11:17,283
anytime to your node or wallet.

1271
01:11:18,003 --> 01:11:20,683
So you could have used Club Orange

1272
01:11:20,683 --> 01:11:23,043
to donate to the people in Canada,

1273
01:11:24,043 --> 01:11:25,743
to big corners, not the people,

1274
01:11:25,843 --> 01:11:27,063
the big corners in Canada, right?

1275
01:11:28,283 --> 01:11:31,323
Without, you know, BTC session,

1276
01:11:31,503 --> 01:11:32,243
credit and invoice.

1277
01:11:32,363 --> 01:11:34,103
You remember all that thing that happened?

1278
01:11:34,623 --> 01:11:34,723
Yeah.

1279
01:11:35,243 --> 01:11:37,623
I think it's a very powerful tool

1280
01:11:37,623 --> 01:11:40,283
for this kind of like also purpose,

1281
01:11:40,603 --> 01:11:41,683
not just advertising,

1282
01:11:41,683 --> 01:11:46,063
but also for like donating to some communities around the world.

1283
01:11:47,583 --> 01:11:48,943
Yeah, it's very cool, mate.

1284
01:11:49,083 --> 01:11:49,643
Very cool.

1285
01:11:50,543 --> 01:11:55,183
So how many other features have you got planned?

1286
01:11:56,463 --> 01:11:58,483
What are you willing to share?

1287
01:11:59,463 --> 01:12:01,023
Honestly, I'm writing out of ideas.

1288
01:12:02,443 --> 01:12:03,103
There's so many.

1289
01:12:04,083 --> 01:12:05,403
The guy goes so fast.

1290
01:12:05,643 --> 01:12:08,883
Well, you know, the big thing, the next big thing is ticketing.

1291
01:12:08,883 --> 01:12:11,823
so we're doing ticketing on

1292
01:12:11,823 --> 01:12:14,303
Club Orange, you know, we already have all the events

1293
01:12:14,303 --> 01:12:16,343
and we already

1294
01:12:16,343 --> 01:12:17,783
have, you know

1295
01:12:17,783 --> 01:12:20,243
most of the time, because now I can see

1296
01:12:20,243 --> 01:12:21,123
like pretty much

1297
01:12:21,123 --> 01:12:24,503
like all the big conference

1298
01:12:24,503 --> 01:12:26,583
one third

1299
01:12:26,583 --> 01:12:27,743
of the people attending

1300
01:12:27,743 --> 01:12:30,203
a Bitcoin conference, like BTC Prague

1301
01:12:30,203 --> 01:12:31,863
or, you know, BTC

1302
01:12:31,863 --> 01:12:33,903
Vegas or

1303
01:12:33,903 --> 01:12:35,683
I don't know

1304
01:12:35,683 --> 01:12:37,443
Baltic, like

1305
01:12:37,443 --> 01:12:38,663
Plan B

1306
01:12:38,663 --> 01:12:45,763
one third, almost one third of the people attending a conference that are on Club Orange already

1307
01:12:45,763 --> 01:12:59,989
because they use the up to networking to find all the side events to find the people and you know do the dinners that kind of stuff And so it kind of makes sense for us to just also also we have a wallet So it makes sense for us to add the ticketing

1308
01:13:00,509 --> 01:13:03,769
So very soon you'll be able to go on a conference

1309
01:13:03,769 --> 01:13:06,369
listing on Club Orange and buy the tickets

1310
01:13:06,369 --> 01:13:07,729
from within the app.

1311
01:13:08,529 --> 01:13:10,329
So it's a unique, it's like it's one,

1312
01:13:11,049 --> 01:13:12,809
it's a very streamlined experience, right?

1313
01:13:13,889 --> 01:13:15,309
You have a wallet with the stats.

1314
01:13:15,589 --> 01:13:16,669
Obviously we only do stats.

1315
01:13:16,829 --> 01:13:17,489
We only do Bitcoin.

1316
01:13:17,729 --> 01:13:18,269
There's no fiat.

1317
01:13:19,929 --> 01:13:24,609
So that's the biggest thing that we're going to launch, which, by the way, ticketing is such a mess, man.

1318
01:13:24,789 --> 01:13:25,929
There's so many variables.

1319
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:29,389
I thought, you know, we built so many stuff like the wallet.

1320
01:13:30,169 --> 01:13:42,429
You know, the other day I was reflecting like, you know, Club Orange, to build Club Orange, I had to learn about social networks, messaging application, the wallets, how they work, the liquidity.

1321
01:13:43,349 --> 01:13:47,329
And I was, okay, you know, okay, ticketing, it's going to be doable.

1322
01:13:47,329 --> 01:13:49,949
it is doable but it's so complicated

1323
01:13:49,949 --> 01:13:51,909
it's probably the most

1324
01:13:51,909 --> 01:13:53,549
complicated things I ever built

1325
01:13:53,549 --> 01:13:54,829
my entire life

1326
01:13:54,829 --> 01:13:58,129
but you know we've done it now

1327
01:13:58,129 --> 01:13:59,909
so that's going to be

1328
01:13:59,909 --> 01:14:00,729
the next big thing

1329
01:14:00,729 --> 01:14:03,609
I'm sure I'm going to find more stuff to build

1330
01:14:03,609 --> 01:14:04,989
and

1331
01:14:04,989 --> 01:14:07,969
but you know at the same time you don't want to

1332
01:14:07,969 --> 01:14:09,709
build too many features actually

1333
01:14:09,709 --> 01:14:11,749
you don't want to

1334
01:14:11,749 --> 01:14:13,689
overload the customer you don't want to

1335
01:14:13,689 --> 01:14:14,989
overload the user with like

1336
01:14:14,989 --> 01:14:21,169
you can do this it has to be very coherent to the mission of the company well none of them have

1337
01:14:21,169 --> 01:14:29,089
dropped away yet right like that that's good to see like none of them well we had something that

1338
01:14:29,089 --> 01:14:37,429
we launched and then we removed which was called city feed right yeah yeah essentially was a way

1339
01:14:37,429 --> 01:14:43,689
where it was a feed because people want to be on a feed i don't know why and that's okay maybe we'll

1340
01:14:43,689 --> 01:14:45,769
do a feed that is geolocated,

1341
01:14:45,929 --> 01:14:47,649
the geofence. So you

1342
01:14:47,649 --> 01:14:49,869
can only post if you're inside

1343
01:14:49,869 --> 01:14:50,469
that city.

1344
01:14:51,429 --> 01:14:53,949
There was no likes, no retweet,

1345
01:14:54,449 --> 01:14:55,349
no comments.

1346
01:14:55,969 --> 01:14:57,409
So it didn't really work.

1347
01:14:57,909 --> 01:14:59,789
But now we have something else that's much

1348
01:14:59,789 --> 01:15:00,749
better actually. It's called,

1349
01:15:01,569 --> 01:15:03,509
I think we still call it city feed. It's basically

1350
01:15:03,509 --> 01:15:05,289
you can, actually it's really cool.

1351
01:15:05,989 --> 01:15:07,349
We call that

1352
01:15:07,349 --> 01:15:09,569
city feed, we call it.

1353
01:15:10,009 --> 01:15:11,749
But you can go in a city, let's say New York,

1354
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:13,649
and then there's a little

1355
01:15:13,649 --> 01:15:16,269
card at the top

1356
01:15:16,269 --> 01:15:18,869
if you only you see if you're in that city

1357
01:15:18,869 --> 01:15:20,869
and you can see who's

1358
01:15:20,869 --> 01:15:22,769
in that city and who's been

1359
01:15:22,769 --> 01:15:24,109
active in the last three days

1360
01:15:24,109 --> 01:15:26,969
and then there is a group

1361
01:15:26,969 --> 01:15:29,109
chat now for each city

1362
01:15:29,109 --> 01:15:30,029
automatically

1363
01:15:30,029 --> 01:15:33,069
so you can just join the group chat you turn up in a new city

1364
01:15:33,069 --> 01:15:34,529
you just open the app and you can just

1365
01:15:34,529 --> 01:15:36,369
you don't have to join you don't have to join

1366
01:15:36,369 --> 01:15:36,989
it's automatic

1367
01:15:36,989 --> 01:15:40,969
and if you leave we remove you automatically

1368
01:15:40,969 --> 01:15:41,969
aha

1369
01:15:41,969 --> 01:15:44,829
Oh, that's why I was in the New York group.

1370
01:15:44,989 --> 01:15:45,489
All right.

1371
01:15:46,509 --> 01:15:46,949
Exactly.

1372
01:15:47,249 --> 01:15:47,909
There you go.

1373
01:15:48,809 --> 01:15:49,129
Exactly.

1374
01:15:50,129 --> 01:15:52,429
And now in those city group chats,

1375
01:15:53,129 --> 01:15:56,169
so we already have a city group chat that people have created, right?

1376
01:15:56,289 --> 01:15:57,369
So there's one for Los Angeles.

1377
01:15:57,569 --> 01:15:58,509
There's 200 people.

1378
01:15:59,109 --> 01:16:00,529
But there are people that are not in Los Angeles.

1379
01:16:00,969 --> 01:16:03,509
They joined because they were here maybe once.

1380
01:16:04,629 --> 01:16:06,749
So it's not very accurate.

1381
01:16:07,689 --> 01:16:10,529
So these city group chats are dynamic.

1382
01:16:10,529 --> 01:16:12,209
so we check

1383
01:16:12,209 --> 01:16:14,289
who's in this geofence

1384
01:16:14,289 --> 01:16:16,249
who's in Los Angeles

1385
01:16:16,249 --> 01:16:18,209
then you're in the group chat

1386
01:16:18,209 --> 01:16:20,129
obviously you can leave the group chat anytime you want

1387
01:16:20,129 --> 01:16:22,709
and then the moment you leave

1388
01:16:22,709 --> 01:16:24,809
we'll remove you

1389
01:16:24,809 --> 01:16:25,509
from the group chat

1390
01:16:25,509 --> 01:16:28,829
so it's basically like a digital time square

1391
01:16:28,829 --> 01:16:30,729
like you know when you were

1392
01:16:30,729 --> 01:16:31,809
a kid you go to the

1393
01:16:31,809 --> 01:16:34,469
you go to the park with your friends

1394
01:16:34,469 --> 01:16:36,449
you're either there or you're not there

1395
01:16:36,449 --> 01:16:38,589
and if you're not there

1396
01:16:38,589 --> 01:16:39,889
you don't know what's going on

1397
01:16:39,889 --> 01:16:48,329
so it's the same idea of that but digital uh and it's very cool and now also we're gonna

1398
01:16:48,329 --> 01:16:56,149
so naturally two days ago now when an event is creating that city we push it in the group chat

1399
01:16:56,149 --> 01:17:04,049
automatically and also when a new merchant sign up in that city they say new merchant just sign up

1400
01:17:04,049 --> 01:17:05,769
so you can go and spend stats, right?

1401
01:17:06,349 --> 01:17:08,209
So it's a more dynamic,

1402
01:17:08,929 --> 01:17:11,529
it's a more useful way of a group chat

1403
01:17:11,529 --> 01:17:13,369
because you can just be in the group chat.

1404
01:17:13,449 --> 01:17:14,569
It's okay, what's the next event?

1405
01:17:15,069 --> 01:17:16,149
The group chat is going to tell me.

1406
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:17,389
I don't even have to go and look for it.

1407
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:18,689
And also, you know,

1408
01:17:18,749 --> 01:17:20,229
we also send a message

1409
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:22,069
when the event starts in 24 hours

1410
01:17:22,069 --> 01:17:22,789
as a reminder.

1411
01:17:24,469 --> 01:17:25,769
So it's a very, yeah,

1412
01:17:25,889 --> 01:17:27,429
actually it's kind of like

1413
01:17:27,429 --> 01:17:28,629
what I always wanted to build.

1414
01:17:28,809 --> 01:17:31,129
Like I want to know what's the next event.

1415
01:17:31,829 --> 01:17:33,289
I want to know what is the merchant,

1416
01:17:33,289 --> 01:17:37,249
without going on the group chat on Telegram

1417
01:17:37,249 --> 01:17:40,249
or Twitter or madeup.com or whatever it is.

1418
01:17:40,649 --> 01:17:41,849
I just want to know one thing.

1419
01:17:42,129 --> 01:17:43,289
Okay, next event.

1420
01:17:43,449 --> 01:17:43,669
Great.

1421
01:17:44,249 --> 01:17:44,569
Click.

1422
01:17:44,929 --> 01:17:45,809
You see all the information.

1423
01:17:45,969 --> 01:17:47,609
There's a group chat for the event, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1424
01:17:48,629 --> 01:17:52,009
So the app is becoming more proactive, essentially,

1425
01:17:52,749 --> 01:17:54,929
instead of just being like a repository.

1426
01:17:55,209 --> 01:17:56,069
Oh, here are the events.

1427
01:17:57,069 --> 01:17:58,349
The app would now tell you,

1428
01:17:59,009 --> 01:18:00,409
oh, you're in that city?

1429
01:18:00,969 --> 01:18:01,729
Here's the next event.

1430
01:18:01,729 --> 01:18:08,369
so what's the um the thing we were talking about the other night on the monthly call

1431
01:18:08,369 --> 01:18:15,909
your idea for like the cards oh my god yes this is i have so many temples

1432
01:18:15,909 --> 01:18:21,409
well this is something that's very private um so it won't be public

1433
01:18:21,409 --> 01:18:28,209
i don't know if we should talk about it but it's let's just say there is uh give it a little teaser

1434
01:18:28,209 --> 01:18:35,429
yeah teasing teasing by the way by the time this thing is out it might be already sold out i don't

1435
01:18:35,429 --> 01:18:39,709
know when this thing's coming out but it might be already sold out are we gonna have like a

1436
01:18:39,709 --> 01:18:47,589
let's say you know when you go to a club there's like a vip set there's a vip room

1437
01:18:47,589 --> 01:18:54,509
that only certain people can access you know cost more money let's maybe cost more money to access

1438
01:18:54,509 --> 01:18:57,009
so we're building something like that

1439
01:18:57,009 --> 01:18:57,969
in Club Orange

1440
01:18:57,969 --> 01:19:00,049
but not just in Club Orange the app

1441
01:19:00,049 --> 01:19:02,769
also in Club Orange the network let's say

1442
01:19:02,769 --> 01:19:05,169
maybe it's private events

1443
01:19:05,169 --> 01:19:05,809
that you know

1444
01:19:05,809 --> 01:19:08,969
that you need to have a special card

1445
01:19:08,969 --> 01:19:09,769
to access

1446
01:19:09,769 --> 01:19:12,689
yeah it's going to be called

1447
01:19:12,689 --> 01:19:14,689
Club Orange private essentially

1448
01:19:14,689 --> 01:19:16,929
it's

1449
01:19:16,929 --> 01:19:17,809
I don't know

1450
01:19:17,809 --> 01:19:19,349
it's going to be an expensive

1451
01:19:19,349 --> 01:19:21,709
another tier let's say

1452
01:19:21,709 --> 01:19:23,549
another level to the club

1453
01:19:23,549 --> 01:19:32,589
yeah i mean i've given up questioning your ideas to be honest just ship it if it works

1454
01:19:32,589 --> 01:19:41,929
i like it because i know look if there's almost 20 000 people on the app and you launch it for

1455
01:19:41,929 --> 01:19:49,749
there is a small people a small group of people on that app that are going to want to

1456
01:19:49,749 --> 01:19:58,449
connect with uh like the like-minded people that are going to be purchasing that option you know

1457
01:19:58,449 --> 01:20:02,989
that they're gonna be they will purchase the option purely in the knowledge that the other

1458
01:20:02,989 --> 01:20:11,529
hundred or so people that purchase this think already like i do yeah exactly yeah but essentially

1459
01:20:11,529 --> 01:20:18,229
it's like you know club orange it's a paid up right um which is obviously it's great because

1460
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:21,909
you know you don't have the boss you don't have the scammers you don't have the shit corners you

1461
01:20:21,909 --> 01:20:27,749
know it's a very high you don't have to sell freaking data for ad of course yes exactly exactly

1462
01:20:27,749 --> 01:20:33,909
which by the way it would be first of all for me it's like not immoral but you know not that ethical

1463
01:20:33,909 --> 01:20:38,389
but it was very difficult to build like building an advertising platform is so difficult

1464
01:20:39,509 --> 01:20:47,749
um and so anyway so club orange is already like a paid only club right but then you could have

1465
01:20:47,749 --> 01:20:56,989
different level of how much you pay and what you get um and you you just you know i want to create

1466
01:20:56,989 --> 01:21:03,989
like a like more opportunities for people to network amongst each other you know there's a

1467
01:21:03,989 --> 01:21:10,629
women group chat which by the way i think is the largest it must be because the largest women group

1468
01:21:10,629 --> 01:21:17,369
in the world uh big corners there's 500 people in the group chat it's only women uh but there is

1469
01:21:17,369 --> 01:21:24,649
So there is a lighting group chat, which people now, I was checking the other day, people are using that group chat to open channel to each other.

1470
01:21:25,089 --> 01:21:25,769
Very cool.

1471
01:21:26,229 --> 01:21:28,169
Also great for educational purpose.

1472
01:21:28,909 --> 01:21:31,629
There is a mining group chat where people talk about mining.

1473
01:21:33,889 --> 01:21:37,929
And so, yeah, so I was at the gym, honestly.

1474
01:21:37,929 --> 01:21:40,589
I go to the gym and I get the best yes.

1475
01:21:41,829 --> 01:21:44,389
I should go to the gym more often.

1476
01:21:44,389 --> 01:21:48,149
and I said, yeah, maybe there should be another level of Club Orange.

1477
01:21:49,449 --> 01:21:51,389
And so, yeah, we'll see.

1478
01:21:51,469 --> 01:21:52,289
We'll see how it goes.

1479
01:21:52,429 --> 01:21:53,269
It might be a terrible view.

1480
01:21:53,369 --> 01:21:53,829
I don't know.

1481
01:21:54,249 --> 01:21:55,869
You know, you got to find out.

1482
01:21:56,689 --> 01:21:57,089
Exactly.

1483
01:21:57,569 --> 01:21:59,269
Just ship it and listen, right?

1484
01:21:59,369 --> 01:22:00,369
Let's see what happens.

1485
01:22:01,049 --> 01:22:01,449
Exactly.

1486
01:22:01,809 --> 01:22:02,049
Yes.

1487
01:22:02,349 --> 01:22:02,909
All right.

1488
01:22:02,929 --> 01:22:04,049
Well, I'm looking forward to that.

1489
01:22:05,549 --> 01:22:07,049
I think, have we covered everything?

1490
01:22:09,409 --> 01:22:09,809
Yeah.

1491
01:22:09,809 --> 01:22:13,949
I mean, the other thing that I would say that was very surprising to me

1492
01:22:13,949 --> 01:22:16,389
is how well received Club Orange has been.

1493
01:22:17,449 --> 01:22:19,689
The rebrand has been awesome.

1494
01:22:20,589 --> 01:22:22,089
Maybe people are just nice.

1495
01:22:22,289 --> 01:22:23,029
I don't know.

1496
01:22:23,789 --> 01:22:26,629
Generally not on Twitter, but there you go.

1497
01:22:26,729 --> 01:22:29,449
Also, big corners are very honest, can be very honest.

1498
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:31,429
Let's put it that way.

1499
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:36,129
Because I was kind of worried, to be honest with you,

1500
01:22:36,889 --> 01:22:40,269
there's a brand that 58,000 followers on Twitter,

1501
01:22:40,669 --> 01:22:42,769
18,000, it worked, right?

1502
01:22:42,769 --> 01:22:43,329
It worked.

1503
01:22:43,949 --> 01:22:46,709
and to kill that brand,

1504
01:22:47,169 --> 01:22:48,789
because you have to kill it, by the way.

1505
01:22:48,989 --> 01:22:49,949
One thing that I've learned,

1506
01:22:50,029 --> 01:22:51,469
if you're a brand, you have to kill it.

1507
01:22:52,109 --> 01:22:54,149
You don't say, oh, no, just kill it.

1508
01:22:54,269 --> 01:22:55,529
Either you do it or you don't do it.

1509
01:22:56,629 --> 01:23:01,169
So to kill that brand that has worked,

1510
01:23:02,109 --> 01:23:03,329
it's a big risk, you know.

1511
01:23:03,789 --> 01:23:04,689
It's a big risk.

1512
01:23:05,209 --> 01:23:06,409
So I was a little bit,

1513
01:23:07,489 --> 01:23:09,629
not worried, but, you know, a little bit cautious.

1514
01:23:10,269 --> 01:23:12,509
And then I'm like, wow, I should have,

1515
01:23:12,509 --> 01:23:15,809
you know I should have been more

1516
01:23:15,809 --> 01:23:18,429
how do you say

1517
01:23:18,429 --> 01:23:19,889
not upfront

1518
01:23:19,915 --> 01:23:22,015
But anyway, so everybody loved the brand.

1519
01:23:22,115 --> 01:23:22,895
Everybody loved the name.

1520
01:23:24,295 --> 01:23:26,575
People that come to me, oh, good job on the rebrand.

1521
01:23:26,695 --> 01:23:27,115
I love it.

1522
01:23:27,155 --> 01:23:27,875
It's much better.

1523
01:23:28,755 --> 01:23:30,615
Which, you know, that's what I thought.

1524
01:23:30,675 --> 01:23:31,735
That's why we went with that name.

1525
01:23:31,735 --> 01:23:35,895
But you never know how much in your head you are instead of, like,

1526
01:23:36,715 --> 01:23:38,595
actually getting people to tell you that.

1527
01:23:38,755 --> 01:23:41,475
So that was very surprising and positive.

1528
01:23:41,975 --> 01:23:44,715
That's the one thing you kept saying to us in the chat is, like,

1529
01:23:44,755 --> 01:23:46,735
this can't just be, like, 10 times better.

1530
01:23:48,215 --> 01:23:49,735
Yes, it has to be 10 times better.

1531
01:23:49,915 --> 01:23:56,435
Essentially, if you rebrand, you can't go from a good brand to a little bit better.

1532
01:23:56,535 --> 01:23:57,655
It has to be much better.

1533
01:23:57,935 --> 01:23:58,755
Or don't do it.

1534
01:23:59,035 --> 01:23:59,195
Yeah.

1535
01:23:59,335 --> 01:24:00,275
Because it's such a risk.

1536
01:24:01,335 --> 01:24:02,735
It's basically like getting divorced.

1537
01:24:04,675 --> 01:24:05,695
You know what I'm saying?

1538
01:24:06,695 --> 01:24:11,455
If getting divorced is not 10 times better than being married, just stay married.

1539
01:24:14,275 --> 01:24:18,335
That's a new tagline for Club Orange right there.

1540
01:24:19,255 --> 01:24:19,815
Oh, my God.

1541
01:24:19,815 --> 01:24:27,235
yeah it has to be a much better name a much better brand or just stay with the you know

1542
01:24:27,235 --> 01:24:29,875
with something that was working at the end of the day was working right

1543
01:24:29,875 --> 01:24:37,295
so yeah very very happy the rebrand went as well as it did better than i expected so i'm you know

1544
01:24:37,295 --> 01:24:44,215
very i'm very proud that you know we actually did that so the last time you came on we were talking

1545
01:24:44,215 --> 01:24:55,995
about uh self-conscious you know ferraris we did you knew and you made the point you're like

1546
01:24:55,995 --> 01:25:02,915
god damn it i should have when i felt the top last cycle i should have rolled out with some bitcoin

1547
01:25:02,915 --> 01:25:10,435
got myself a ferrari i'm italian after all and then sell it three years later and get more bitcoin

1548
01:25:10,435 --> 01:25:17,595
back well one year later really right okay but what are you still thinking about the ferrari

1549
01:25:17,595 --> 01:25:25,435
now you have two kids on board as well no well yeah a ferrari with two kids is not exactly

1550
01:25:25,435 --> 01:25:32,155
ideal no yes i will get a ferrari at some point no as an italian man you know you have to

1551
01:25:32,155 --> 01:25:38,235
i have to support my country somehow maseratis don't count lamborghini

1552
01:25:38,235 --> 01:25:39,715
Lamborghini

1553
01:25:39,715 --> 01:25:40,495
first of all

1554
01:25:40,495 --> 01:25:41,115
is owned by

1555
01:25:41,115 --> 01:25:43,335
Volkswagen now

1556
01:25:43,335 --> 01:25:44,735
it's in the Volkswagen group

1557
01:25:44,735 --> 01:25:45,495
Porsche

1558
01:25:45,495 --> 01:25:45,935
Audi

1559
01:25:45,935 --> 01:25:47,115
also Lamborghini

1560
01:25:47,115 --> 01:25:47,815
is for teenagers

1561
01:25:47,815 --> 01:25:48,655
honestly

1562
01:25:48,655 --> 01:25:49,735
some for men

1563
01:25:49,735 --> 01:25:53,355
yeah I would get a Ferrari

1564
01:25:53,355 --> 01:25:54,555
yeah

1565
01:25:54,555 --> 01:25:55,475
when Bitcoin is

1566
01:25:55,475 --> 01:25:57,155
100 million dollars

1567
01:25:57,155 --> 01:25:57,895
no just kidding

1568
01:25:57,895 --> 01:25:59,515
what's wrong with Maserati then

1569
01:25:59,515 --> 01:26:00,835
oh

1570
01:26:00,835 --> 01:26:01,515
it's

1571
01:26:01,515 --> 01:26:03,355
well number one

1572
01:26:03,355 --> 01:26:04,335
is for old men

1573
01:26:04,335 --> 01:26:04,875
you know

1574
01:26:04,875 --> 01:26:05,955
like really old men

1575
01:26:05,955 --> 01:26:06,675
really

1576
01:26:06,675 --> 01:26:08,675
to have young girlfriend

1577
01:26:08,675 --> 01:26:10,235
alright

1578
01:26:10,235 --> 01:26:12,355
I actually

1579
01:26:12,355 --> 01:26:14,655
I actually rented a Maserati

1580
01:26:14,655 --> 01:26:15,855
a couple of years ago

1581
01:26:15,855 --> 01:26:18,995
when I didn't have kids

1582
01:26:18,995 --> 01:26:20,315
to go from like a

1583
01:26:20,315 --> 01:26:23,155
racing with my friends in the canyons

1584
01:26:23,155 --> 01:26:26,175
and it had a Ferrari engine

1585
01:26:26,175 --> 01:26:28,295
and it was such a great sound

1586
01:26:28,295 --> 01:26:29,755
I don't know if you ever drove a Ferrari

1587
01:26:29,755 --> 01:26:31,915
it's an incredible sound

1588
01:26:31,915 --> 01:26:32,875
it's incredible

1589
01:26:32,875 --> 01:26:36,435
there's something with the sound of the engine

1590
01:26:36,435 --> 01:26:38,195
and men, it's like,

1591
01:26:38,535 --> 01:26:39,055
wow.

1592
01:26:40,755 --> 01:26:42,315
Incredible. I don't know.

1593
01:26:42,395 --> 01:26:43,435
Mazda is just like

1594
01:26:43,435 --> 01:26:46,555
a star of Ferrari. Ferrari is kind of like a dream

1595
01:26:46,555 --> 01:26:47,415
when you're a kid.

1596
01:26:48,495 --> 01:26:50,535
You want a Ferrari. It's kind of like

1597
01:26:50,535 --> 01:26:51,895
a pinnacle of cars.

1598
01:26:52,395 --> 01:26:54,035
Especially if you're Italian in Italy.

1599
01:26:54,935 --> 01:26:56,555
It's lilies. It might be

1600
01:26:56,555 --> 01:26:58,435
I'm not an expert in car, but

1601
01:26:58,435 --> 01:27:00,675
it might be the best cars ever. Most likely.

1602
01:27:01,775 --> 01:27:02,555
And so, you know,

1603
01:27:02,775 --> 01:27:04,035
yeah, I'll get one at some point.

1604
01:27:04,035 --> 01:27:11,355
uh yeah but i don't you're trying to time the top essentially is that what you're trying to do

1605
01:27:11,355 --> 01:27:17,675
no i'm not trying to do anything but like uh it was a funny realization that you you said that

1606
01:27:17,675 --> 01:27:25,335
if i'd have bought the ferrari at the top and then sold it i would have driven the car for a year

1607
01:27:25,335 --> 01:27:30,955
and then i would have enjoyed it for all of that time then i could have got i would have sold it

1608
01:27:30,955 --> 01:27:33,355
and bought Bitcoin back with it.

1609
01:27:33,455 --> 01:27:35,255
And I would have had more Bitcoin than when I started.

1610
01:27:35,655 --> 01:27:38,155
It's an interesting thought process.

1611
01:27:38,315 --> 01:27:40,835
Yeah, it's an interesting thought process.

1612
01:27:41,975 --> 01:27:45,835
I don't have that urge anymore because also I have a company now.

1613
01:27:46,015 --> 01:27:55,951
You know I busy working I have kids Even if I had a Ferrari I didn have time to drive it to be honest with you There a different life than 2021

1614
01:27:57,811 --> 01:27:59,091
So 126

1615
01:27:59,091 --> 01:28:01,071
I guess is the top for this cycle.

1616
01:28:01,071 --> 01:28:02,751
We'll see. Maybe, maybe not.

1617
01:28:02,911 --> 01:28:04,971
I didn't have any urge of buying

1618
01:28:04,971 --> 01:28:06,591
anything, just so you know.

1619
01:28:07,091 --> 01:28:07,991
So maybe it's not the top.

1620
01:28:08,791 --> 01:28:11,251
I don't think it's going to be the top.

1621
01:28:11,631 --> 01:28:13,111
But we will see.

1622
01:28:13,331 --> 01:28:14,971
We don't talk about price predictions here

1623
01:28:14,971 --> 01:28:15,991
on the Once Britain podcast.

1624
01:28:15,991 --> 01:28:22,171
as you all know just stack your sats take self-custody sit on your hands that's all you

1625
01:28:22,171 --> 01:28:27,771
need to do do that for as long as you possibly can and your life will change forever uh right

1626
01:28:27,771 --> 01:28:33,111
how am i going to close this down well obviously if you had one last orange pill left to give to

1627
01:28:33,111 --> 01:28:43,491
somebody who would you give it to and why uh is there anything else i think we've covered pretty

1628
01:28:43,491 --> 01:28:51,451
much everything yeah no it was good all right i think it's yeah the last orange pill what did i

1629
01:28:51,451 --> 01:28:58,371
last time you don't ask maybe probably i i asked this question three or four times a week i've done

1630
01:28:58,371 --> 01:29:05,431
580 shows you don't have a spreadsheet to keep track you don't have an air agent somebody could

1631
01:29:05,431 --> 01:29:10,051
somebody could get an ai agent to listen to all the ones written podcasts and create a spreadsheet

1632
01:29:10,051 --> 01:29:15,991
of all that would be interesting to see who the most repeated answer i mean see what i'm saying

1633
01:29:15,991 --> 01:29:24,611
yeah yeah mask would be rogan the pope the president of the united states yeah um they're

1634
01:29:24,611 --> 01:29:30,791
they're the most common let me think let me think let me think the funny you know what's the funny

1635
01:29:30,791 --> 01:29:36,431
thing that now i mean i don't know how orange pill it is you can't say the president of the

1636
01:29:36,431 --> 01:29:38,551
anymore because it's kind of already

1637
01:29:38,551 --> 01:29:39,371
orange peel. I mean,

1638
01:29:39,631 --> 01:29:42,331
it's already pro-Bitcoin,

1639
01:29:42,611 --> 01:29:44,791
which is kind of wild when you think about it.

1640
01:29:48,051 --> 01:29:49,011
Let's see.

1641
01:29:51,311 --> 01:29:51,751
I mean,

1642
01:29:51,931 --> 01:29:53,891
maybe the

1643
01:29:53,891 --> 01:29:55,931
share of the Fed,

1644
01:29:56,491 --> 01:29:57,391
I can shut it down.

1645
01:29:58,291 --> 01:30:00,431
I think that's the final boss.

1646
01:30:01,351 --> 01:30:02,091
Give it to Powell.

1647
01:30:02,511 --> 01:30:03,971
He's about to be replaced, right?

1648
01:30:03,971 --> 01:30:05,091
So yeah, force it down.

1649
01:30:05,091 --> 01:30:09,671
By the way, it's about to be replaced from a pro-crypto guy.

1650
01:30:10,111 --> 01:30:10,451
Right.

1651
01:30:10,691 --> 01:30:11,591
For sure.

1652
01:30:12,291 --> 01:30:14,811
Yeah, well, this is all the game plan right now, isn't it?

1653
01:30:14,891 --> 01:30:16,231
Deregulate all the things.

1654
01:30:16,631 --> 01:30:23,951
And, well, the Trump family are stacking Bitcoin whilst they can.

1655
01:30:23,951 --> 01:30:27,631
And they're suppressing the price and they're deregulating the environment.

1656
01:30:28,011 --> 01:30:32,371
And, like, you just watch in, like, four to six years' time and all of this plays out.

1657
01:30:32,671 --> 01:30:34,711
They've got World Liberty Financial now, right?

1658
01:30:34,711 --> 01:30:36,511
they've got Eric Trump

1659
01:30:36,511 --> 01:30:38,591
close to a lot of the Bitcoin

1660
01:30:38,591 --> 01:30:39,651
treasury companies

1661
01:30:39,651 --> 01:30:42,631
they are filling

1662
01:30:42,631 --> 01:30:43,811
their boots

1663
01:30:43,811 --> 01:30:45,751
yeah exactly

1664
01:30:45,751 --> 01:30:48,131
maybe I'll give you two honestly

1665
01:30:48,131 --> 01:30:49,931
I'll give you to my uncle

1666
01:30:49,931 --> 01:30:51,951
my uncle is the closest

1667
01:30:51,951 --> 01:30:54,491
family member I have I think

1668
01:30:54,491 --> 01:30:54,931
you know

1669
01:30:54,931 --> 01:30:57,731
very similar in certain respects

1670
01:30:57,731 --> 01:31:00,051
and it's pretty smart

1671
01:31:00,051 --> 01:31:02,051
it's used to teach economics

1672
01:31:02,051 --> 01:31:03,951
and biology

1673
01:31:03,951 --> 01:31:05,111
you know

1674
01:31:05,111 --> 01:31:07,091
and I cannot

1675
01:31:07,091 --> 01:31:09,931
I've been trying for maybe 10 years

1676
01:31:09,931 --> 01:31:12,171
probably 5 let's say 5 years

1677
01:31:12,171 --> 01:31:14,151
I cannot

1678
01:31:14,151 --> 01:31:15,411
orange pill him

1679
01:31:15,411 --> 01:31:17,451
it's impossible

1680
01:31:17,451 --> 01:31:18,811
I try everything

1681
01:31:18,811 --> 01:31:20,431
actually you know what happened

1682
01:31:20,431 --> 01:31:22,731
he

1683
01:31:22,731 --> 01:31:24,671
that's Coinbase my god

1684
01:31:24,671 --> 01:31:26,111
Coinbase is such a disaster

1685
01:31:26,111 --> 01:31:28,331
anyway I told him

1686
01:31:28,331 --> 01:31:30,071
many years ago please

1687
01:31:30,071 --> 01:31:31,591
buy some Bitcoin

1688
01:31:31,591 --> 01:31:40,651
and there was only coinbase back then 2019 2020 whatever it was and he went on coinbase

1689
01:31:40,651 --> 01:31:47,771
he bought some bitcoin and then a few months later he's just like solana and ethereum like why

1690
01:31:47,771 --> 01:31:55,211
because just the mindset of one asset they don't get it like it's all about diversification it's

1691
01:31:55,211 --> 01:32:00,551
like a it's it's a boomer essentially so he doesn't uh yeah i would give it to him that would

1692
01:32:00,551 --> 01:32:05,711
be great honestly that would be great well ship him a ferrari with uh with your neck

1693
01:32:05,711 --> 01:32:12,971
he's like look what my bitcoin bought you no no it doesn't matter honestly it he has seen the price

1694
01:32:12,971 --> 01:32:17,851
because i've been telling him since the price was like eight thousand dollars the price does not it's

1695
01:32:17,851 --> 01:32:29,188
not a price thing it a it a it a framework of the world that he does not accept he thinks inflation is good essentially

1696
01:32:29,188 --> 01:32:32,528
not a lot of inflation

1697
01:32:32,528 --> 01:32:34,408
he thinks a little bit of inflation is good

1698
01:32:34,408 --> 01:32:35,728
and

1699
01:32:35,728 --> 01:32:38,688
3.125 bitcoin per 10 minutes

1700
01:32:38,688 --> 01:32:40,068
yeah

1701
01:32:40,068 --> 01:32:40,548
exactly

1702
01:32:40,548 --> 01:32:42,768
that's inflation

1703
01:32:42,768 --> 01:32:45,488
oh man

1704
01:32:45,488 --> 01:32:46,228
anyway yeah

1705
01:32:46,228 --> 01:32:48,828
With a known issuance schedule?

1706
01:32:49,668 --> 01:32:50,108
Yeah.

1707
01:32:50,608 --> 01:32:53,008
Mate, so if people want to join the app,

1708
01:32:53,268 --> 01:32:54,408
what's the best way to do it?

1709
01:32:54,448 --> 01:32:55,868
If they want to reach out to you,

1710
01:32:55,968 --> 01:32:57,728
if they want to learn more about it,

1711
01:32:57,788 --> 01:32:59,768
if they want to get you across to a conference,

1712
01:33:00,028 --> 01:33:02,368
how can they reach out to you?

1713
01:33:02,628 --> 01:33:04,628
Obviously, join Club Orange

1714
01:33:04,628 --> 01:33:07,368
and direct message Matteo, number one.

1715
01:33:07,368 --> 01:33:08,828
But if they haven't done that,

1716
01:33:09,028 --> 01:33:10,048
then what's the best way?

1717
01:33:10,968 --> 01:33:14,288
Well, so cluborange.org is the website.

1718
01:33:14,288 --> 01:33:17,168
Club Orange on all the app store

1719
01:33:17,168 --> 01:33:19,088
there's also a web app by the way

1720
01:33:19,088 --> 01:33:20,688
you don't even need to have the app

1721
01:33:20,688 --> 01:33:23,068
I'm pretty active on

1722
01:33:23,068 --> 01:33:24,828
Twitter or X

1723
01:33:24,828 --> 01:33:26,868
it's my name

1724
01:33:26,868 --> 01:33:28,788
Mattafulequini you can find me like that

1725
01:33:28,788 --> 01:33:30,808
but honestly I obviously

1726
01:33:30,808 --> 01:33:32,028
answer every DM

1727
01:33:32,028 --> 01:33:33,928
on Club Orange

1728
01:33:33,928 --> 01:33:36,848
I have a lot of DMs

1729
01:33:36,848 --> 01:33:38,188
I spend a lot of time on Club Orange

1730
01:33:38,188 --> 01:33:38,948
it's like

1731
01:33:38,948 --> 01:33:42,328
I'm addicted to my own app essentially

1732
01:33:42,328 --> 01:33:43,948
but yeah Club Orange

1733
01:33:43,948 --> 01:33:46,408
join and find big corners

1734
01:33:46,408 --> 01:33:47,528
go to a meetup

1735
01:33:47,528 --> 01:33:49,528
don't worry about the prize

1736
01:33:49,528 --> 01:33:51,848
stack France, stack Sats

1737
01:33:51,848 --> 01:33:53,768
just you know

1738
01:33:53,768 --> 01:33:54,908
it's a better

1739
01:33:54,908 --> 01:33:58,048
life. We should chill your own meetup

1740
01:33:58,048 --> 01:34:00,288
if people want to come and actually meet in real life

1741
01:34:00,288 --> 01:34:02,368
yeah I mean Santa Monica, Los Angeles

1742
01:34:02,368 --> 01:34:04,488
I do a meetup

1743
01:34:04,488 --> 01:34:06,488
every Saturday at 9am

1744
01:34:06,488 --> 01:34:07,968
I'm probably the only

1745
01:34:07,968 --> 01:34:10,528
I'm the only one in the world

1746
01:34:10,528 --> 01:34:12,448
that have a meetup every Saturday morning

1747
01:34:12,448 --> 01:34:13,788
at 9am

1748
01:34:13,788 --> 01:34:16,268
and believe it or not

1749
01:34:16,268 --> 01:34:17,948
some people drive an hour

1750
01:34:17,948 --> 01:34:19,348
to come to the meetup

1751
01:34:19,348 --> 01:34:21,208
I believe it

1752
01:34:21,208 --> 01:34:23,768
because the same happens in our meetup here

1753
01:34:23,768 --> 01:34:24,928
at 9am?

1754
01:34:25,508 --> 01:34:26,748
we don't do 9am no

1755
01:34:26,748 --> 01:34:28,208
we do an evening in the pub

1756
01:34:28,208 --> 01:34:29,448
but people come from

1757
01:34:29,448 --> 01:34:32,228
they'll bus or train in

1758
01:34:32,228 --> 01:34:33,528
yeah that's crazy

1759
01:34:33,528 --> 01:34:35,328
I know this obviously

1760
01:34:35,328 --> 01:34:37,648
I will deal for this kind of stuff

1761
01:34:37,648 --> 01:34:38,528
it's wild

1762
01:34:38,528 --> 01:34:41,948
if you're ever in Santa Monica or Los Angeles

1763
01:34:41,948 --> 01:34:43,308
just send me a message

1764
01:34:43,308 --> 01:34:51,068
come to the meetup and you know that's uh yeah stuck friends with stack sats and investment wise

1765
01:34:51,068 --> 01:35:00,028
what's the latest on that front investment wise we're almost done with the round we have you know

1766
01:35:00,028 --> 01:35:05,628
a couple of hundred thousand dollars left uh if the investor wants to join us that'd be great

1767
01:35:06,588 --> 01:35:10,828
you know we have a treasury of bitcoin you know we're a real bitcoin treasury company i guess

1768
01:35:10,828 --> 01:35:13,088
growing fast and

1769
01:35:13,088 --> 01:35:14,288
building

1770
01:35:14,288 --> 01:35:15,728
fast.

1771
01:35:18,868 --> 01:35:21,168
It's an interest. Honestly, I was thinking

1772
01:35:21,168 --> 01:35:23,308
the other day, if I didn't

1773
01:35:23,308 --> 01:35:25,288
have a software company, I would

1774
01:35:25,288 --> 01:35:25,528
be

1775
01:35:25,528 --> 01:35:28,648
kind of like FOMO

1776
01:35:28,648 --> 01:35:30,188
in building a software.

1777
01:35:30,268 --> 01:35:33,188
It's the best time in the history of the

1778
01:35:33,188 --> 01:35:35,368
internet to build a software company

1779
01:35:35,368 --> 01:35:36,148
by far.

1780
01:35:37,788 --> 01:35:38,348
Amazing.

1781
01:35:38,348 --> 01:35:46,328
well thank you mate for everything you've done for bitcoin and continue to do and connecting us

1782
01:35:46,328 --> 01:35:51,488
in real life and uh inviting me along for the journey uh for those that don't know i just sit

1783
01:35:51,488 --> 01:35:56,888
on a call with a couple of other bitcoiners every month with mateo and we just have a few beers and

1784
01:35:56,888 --> 01:36:02,828
shit you know throw shit against the wall and see what sticks uh and you know that that's been

1785
01:36:02,828 --> 01:36:07,528
just a great learning journey as well to watch all of this unfold so you know a personal thank

1786
01:36:07,528 --> 01:36:14,108
you from me well thank you for being one of the first people in that believed in us and the mission

1787
01:36:14,108 --> 01:36:20,248
because it was not easy before we even launched to believe that this thing would work honestly so

1788
01:36:20,248 --> 01:36:25,748
thank you to you all right man well have a great weekend thanks for coming back on

1789
01:36:25,748 --> 01:36:34,768
thank you daniel ciao ciao thank you everybody for listening and i hope after all of that

1790
01:36:34,768 --> 01:36:39,028
those of you that are not on Club Orange that haven't gone and checked it out

1791
01:36:39,028 --> 01:36:44,208
yet will at least go over hit the link in the show notes go check it out and go

1792
01:36:44,208 --> 01:36:47,668
sign up for a month or two go see if it's gonna make a difference to your life

1793
01:36:47,668 --> 01:37:00,524
go see if you can connect with local Bitcoiners in your region this is without doubt the most powerful side of the app For years you could have been the lonely dude

1794
01:37:01,004 --> 01:37:04,104
Just hanging out on Twitter or NOSTA,

1795
01:37:04,684 --> 01:37:07,584
just, you know, flinging out Bitcoin memes,

1796
01:37:08,024 --> 01:37:09,564
getting involved in conversations,

1797
01:37:10,044 --> 01:37:13,384
but never actually meeting anybody in real life

1798
01:37:13,384 --> 01:37:16,444
and being just completely disconnected

1799
01:37:16,444 --> 01:37:27,064
in your physical meat space that is so depressing it's so depressing and it you might not even

1800
01:37:27,064 --> 01:37:32,484
realize it until you actually go out and meet another bitcoiner and then all of a sudden you're

1801
01:37:32,484 --> 01:37:38,704
like this this euphoric kind of relief it's like an elephant getting up off your chest you found

1802
01:37:38,704 --> 01:37:45,324
someone that thinks like you and it might not be that way on every single situation you know don't

1803
01:37:45,324 --> 01:37:52,144
think that you're going to think 100% about you know the same different things like you might have

1804
01:37:52,144 --> 01:37:56,644
wildly different beliefs outside you might support different football clubs god forbid

1805
01:37:56,644 --> 01:38:00,644
but you know what I mean you might have different political beliefs you might have different

1806
01:38:00,644 --> 01:38:07,524
health practices you might have completely different views on whatever's going on in the

1807
01:38:07,524 --> 01:38:14,184
world right now that doesn't matter because what you're bound by is this understanding that sound

1808
01:38:14,184 --> 01:38:21,964
money you know digitally finite scarce money is the only thing that matters and it's going to be

1809
01:38:21,964 --> 01:38:27,644
that that takes us forward so what do you have to lose you got to get out there and meet people and

1810
01:38:27,644 --> 01:38:34,624
if you if if you download the app and there's not someone within a town or a city or two uh check

1811
01:38:34,624 --> 01:38:40,424
out the events there might be an event coming up near you if not get to an event like that make that

1812
01:38:40,424 --> 01:38:43,184
along with what I said at the beginning of the show here.

1813
01:38:43,564 --> 01:38:47,144
2026 is the year for you to really grok self-custody.

1814
01:38:47,304 --> 01:38:49,204
If you've already done that, that's great.

1815
01:38:49,384 --> 01:38:49,924
Well done.

1816
01:38:50,284 --> 01:38:54,224
Make sure you just keep your skills sharpened.

1817
01:38:55,304 --> 01:38:56,424
Get to a conference.

1818
01:38:57,244 --> 01:38:59,144
BTC Prague, if you're in Europe,

1819
01:38:59,464 --> 01:39:01,724
BTC Prague is the meeting place.

1820
01:39:01,844 --> 01:39:02,964
That's the place to go.

1821
01:39:03,044 --> 01:39:05,604
That's the hotbed of Bitcoiners.

1822
01:39:05,884 --> 01:39:08,124
Bitcoiners come in from all over Europe

1823
01:39:08,124 --> 01:39:10,124
and they also come in from all over the world.

1824
01:39:10,424 --> 01:39:14,984
We get a lot of guests over from the US, Canada and further afield.

1825
01:39:15,784 --> 01:39:20,604
But it's just, I don't know, it's hard to explain.

1826
01:39:21,384 --> 01:39:23,104
It's just, it has the feel.

1827
01:39:23,604 --> 01:39:25,064
It has what you want there.

1828
01:39:25,424 --> 01:39:29,704
And when you see, I love meeting Bitcoiners that have gone, that turned up,

1829
01:39:29,864 --> 01:39:33,964
and there was a handful last year that turned up to BTC Prague for the first time ever,

1830
01:39:34,504 --> 01:39:35,624
first conference ever.

1831
01:39:35,804 --> 01:39:37,544
Some come alone, some come with their families.

1832
01:39:37,544 --> 01:39:44,424
and they just got the biggest smiles on their face the whole three days and they just it is

1833
01:39:44,424 --> 01:39:48,404
life transforming now you might feel as though i'm being a bit preachy here but

1834
01:39:48,404 --> 01:39:53,844
you know go test it don't trust verify get yourself a ticket you can pay in bitcoin

1835
01:39:53,844 --> 01:40:00,164
and make this a trip bring your family if you can and get to btc prague if you're listening

1836
01:40:00,164 --> 01:40:06,904
from further afield hello from down under uh to my my boys and girls down under i love you very

1837
01:40:06,904 --> 01:40:12,344
much over in Australia and New Zealand or if you're tuning in from Africa, South Africa,

1838
01:40:13,044 --> 01:40:20,644
hello. You have Bitcoin conferences all over Asia. Get to them and you will be able to find them on

1839
01:40:20,644 --> 01:40:28,424
Orange Pill App. And like Mateo was explaining, oh God, Club Orange. You see? You see how sticky

1840
01:40:28,424 --> 01:40:32,604
it is? Well, I have been part of it from the beginning, so it's very, very difficult. So Club

1841
01:40:32,604 --> 01:40:38,004
orange hit events and then you can scroll the events you can search whether they're nearby

1842
01:40:38,004 --> 01:40:45,784
or in date order and then just start planning and planning a little itinerary uh shill uh the trip

1843
01:40:45,784 --> 01:40:50,604
to your family if you uh can get them away on holiday just to come across and see a new city

1844
01:40:50,604 --> 01:40:54,904
get there a couple of days before a couple of days afterwards you get the picture but go meet

1845
01:40:54,904 --> 01:41:03,484
people in real life. Seriously, it's the basic human emotion that makes us feel good. We are

1846
01:41:03,484 --> 01:41:12,044
social animals. And moving into 2026, let's get off the damn freaking, like Lauren was saying at

1847
01:41:12,044 --> 01:41:17,564
the beginning, we're all addicted to these phones and our laptops and whatever else. Shut them down.

1848
01:41:17,564 --> 01:41:24,324
Go and see people face to face. Rant over. Episode over. Catch you on the next show.

1849
01:41:24,904 --> 01:41:25,244
Thank you.