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Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.

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This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can

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around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean

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for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so

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much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.

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Time for something slightly different. What would you do if you were ex-military and ex-space

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industry after you found Bitcoin? Well you would launch a company that was going to mine Bitcoin

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in space wouldn't you? I mean clearly. Well that's what Calvin's done with a couple of other guys

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and that's what he's here to talk about bitcoin mining in space in low earth orbit

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with miners inside satellites that are going to harness the power and the energy of the sun

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this is mining on the final frontier i love it it's so i mean excuse the pun it's so far out there

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that it's just such an interesting thought process to to take yourself through and for the geeks out

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there who love this kind of stuff uh please get in touch with calvin after you've listened to this

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uh dyson-labs.com is the website where you can go and learn some more uh but yeah if i'm look

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if nothing else you'll get fired up just at the passion behind this and it's not all pie in the

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guy again a weird pun uh but there you go well yeah i enough said i hope you enjoy the episode

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let's get into it as soon as we've given some uh some shout outs to the show sponsors uh orange

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pill app uh not an official sponsor but i have been part of the orange pill app team since almost

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the beginning thank you mateo for inviting me along on this ride of yours as you've built out

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the social layer of the Bitcoin ecosystem. If you're not on Orange Pill app, go check it out.

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It is a paid app, people. Please understand, you are going to have to pay a monthly fee or a yearly

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fee, or you can just smash by a live membership all via the Lightning Network, and you're going

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to be connected to 18,000 other Bitcoiners around the world. I use this app almost daily,

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certainly when I'm traveling, and certainly because now of the geo zapping function,

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you can geo zapp, say you're going on holiday, pick a city, wherever it is you're going next.

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You type, you open your orange pill app, you go to your wallet, you type in send,

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and then you send to the city, just find the city that you're going to. And it will tell you how

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many Bitcoiners are on the app? You're like, 25 Bitcoiners live in XYZ city. You geo-zap them a

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message. Hey guys, we are coming, going to be in town five days. Would love to know the best bars,

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restaurants, cafes. Where do they accept Bitcoin? Where's the best place for steak? Who would like

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to meet for a coffee or a beer? Is there any great tourist secret hidden things we should be looking

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at doing and you attach 21 sats to it and you send so you've just sent 21 sats to a complete

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stranger they might not even see your message or they might not want to connect or they might not

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want to be um they might not be in town at that time they're still going to receive the sats you've

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sent value but what you get back is incredible because they will some of them won't but many of

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them will get back to you and before you know it you are landing instead of you landing into a

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foreign land you're landing into a place where you are just wrapped up in bitcoin club love you

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are done you are sorted your trip is you know next level so that's just one utility of the orange

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pill app so go download it uh there's a link in the show notes uh just hit that reference link

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download it you'll get some sats in your wallet straight away and you can start playing around

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with it so that's orange pill up that's that shill uh stack sats relay r-e-l-a-i dot c-h

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forward slash bitten download the app this is across europe all the euro plebs can be downloading

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and stacking up to a thousand swiss or equivalent per day and they have a white glove service for

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high net worth individuals and they can help you get your business onto a bitcoin standard as well

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with their private team.

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So that's relay, R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash Bitten.

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Get stacking today.

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Once you have stacked, get yourself a Bitbox hardware wallet.

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Do not leave Bitcoin on an exchange.

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Do not leave Bitcoin on an app.

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Do not leave Bitcoin on a hot wallet.

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Get it on a cold storage device.

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Go do your own research, please.

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I urge you to go do your own research.

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however Bitbox have been sponsoring this show for many years they've been around since 2015 I think

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bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten they have the Bitbox 02 which is bitcoin only and the Bitcoin

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Nova which is their brand new wallet out at the moment go and check out their offering use the

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code bitten for a five percent discount at checkout paywithflash.com is the place for you to go and

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start being able to accept Bitcoin for your goods and services. PayWithFlash.com making it easy.

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Right, let's get into this one. See you guys in space with Calvin England.

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All right, Calvin, we are recording and I had to cut you off before we got too deep into the weeds

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because this one's going to be so fun. Big shout out to Mateo from Orange Pill App that put you on

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my radar. And a little bit of context, I just get a text from him, you have to interview this guy on

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the podcast, he wants to mine Bitcoin in space. So I remember actually, and I put you in touch

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with JP. I had JP Barrick on the show back in 2020. And I threw a random question at him because

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he's in the Bitcoin mining space. And I just asked him the question, would it ever be able to ever be

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possible to you know send asics up into satellites and and mine bitcoin from space and

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you know like he didn't really have an answer it seems to me as though you do here we are in 2025

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september uh so before we get into that um lauren would generally ask you the first question and i

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would have told her right we're gonna have this guy come on and he's gonna talk about mining bitcoin

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in space and she would have a first question for you so her first question would have been

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but what if something goes wrong with them how would you fix them

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sure um and generally speaking when you talk about terrestrial miners terrestrial miners have

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a very high failure rate so um people inherently you know they say like well these systems are

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going to fall apart like in space there's no way that you can get up there and and you know it's

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not like you can take them into the shop and take them apart. And it's very expensive to get to

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orbit in the first place. But the way that you counter that problem is that you design these

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systems from the ground up with high reliability in mind. So there's, if you're familiar with,

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and some of the electronics people will probably be familiar with these standards, but IPC standards,

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You have consumer-grade electronics on one side that are very cheaply made.

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They're not made with high reliability in mind.

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This is part of the reason why your washing machine will break as soon as you buy it sometimes.

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It's consumer-grade electronics.

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Bitcoin miners fall under those same standards typically.

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But then you have high-reliability electronics on the opposite side of the scale.

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So this is like your aerospace avionics or your medical grade electronics equipment.

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This is high reliability. It's made with different standards in mind.

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So it's same technology most of the time. It's just you have to be more precise with your engineering work.

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And in fact, what this means is you can extend the life of these systems much longer by making them with more strict engineering in mind.

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Now, of course, this means a higher amount of engineering work in general on the front end.

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But if the if the overall returns end up making it up and in this case, space has a lot of energy.

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I'm sure we'll get into the details of this, but because space has so much energy and energy is the main price driver in Bitcoin mining, it actually it.

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The preliminary math shows that it becomes worth it.

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people right now are probably thinking oh shit like he's not joking like there is an absolute

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solid chance that i mean this is your thing right you're gonna you're gonna make this happen like

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how how close are we to like realizing this goal so um yeah i mean you know i'm i consider myself

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an aerospace professional. I was in the military from 2012 to 2016. I got my mechanical engineering

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degree from Purdue University. I graduated in 2021. And since then, I've been working in aerospace.

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I've worked for Northrop Grumman. I've worked for Blue Origin. I've worked for Beyond Gravity,

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previously Ruag Space. And then I worked for a transdime corporation company called Extant

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aerospace. But it's just to say that I've got, I very much take engineering and aerospace

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extremely seriously. I just also happen to be a Bitcoiner. I saw what happened during coronavirus

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and the money printing situation. I grew up as, you know, throughout the financial crisis.

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And I saw I was privy to to, you know, what inflation does to an economy.

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My grandpa actually lost his pension because he retired from GM.

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And, you know, basically, one way or another, the government took my grandpa's pension away.

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And how old are you now?

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31.

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What? OK. So 2008, you were right around what age?

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uh god uh well i was born in 94 so like you know 12 something like that what's the math 14 uh yeah

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it's when i was when i was when i was a kid seeing like i i remember it was one thing that

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was really i've always been like kind of had a sense for economics like i was a big ron paul

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fan when i was in middle school um how did you come across your radar was that just from watching

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like being on the news or something Having access to the internet and being a young kid There was a conspiracy YouTube video Oh man what was the name of it God I can remember the name of it but it went over

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9-11, the Federal Reserve, and the origins of Christianity. But seeing that Federal Reserve

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part of that video got me into, it started making me research more about this. When I was in high

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school, I actually like did my thesis on taxes and how taxes affect the economy. Because at the time,

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Obama had raised taxes in a way that I was like, I want to understand these systems. And eventually,

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after finding Austrian economics, what I realized is that this is all like manmade manipulation.

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There is no right answer here. This is just we are living inside of a closed.

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A closed system that we have made, and it's very insular in that that economy doesn't really exist.

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What does exist is scarcity. And in Bitcoin mining, when you start when you start talking about Bitcoin and Austrian economics, it's like, OK, this is the engineering.

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This is the actual way that these systems work. And I think, like, going from that worldview of being trapped inside of, like, the Chicago School of Inkinisian economics, and then finally seeing Austrian economics and realizing, like, oh, man, this is the actual truth of the matter.

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That was what really drove my interest in the economics of it all.

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But I think your question had to do with, am I going to do this?

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I'm at least going to put a miner into space.

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This is going to be able to drive.

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I do have some commercial interest at this point.

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I can't go into all the details

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but I can

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initially

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I also want to say that I want to make

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as much of this open source

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as I humanly can

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unfortunately when you deal with satellite components

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you also get into ITAR requirements

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so there is

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I still need to get this

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sorted but I'm absolutely dedicated

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to putting all of the

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information in the open source community

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that I can

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um however my business has had to make certain agreements with um with other agreement with

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other businesses that include non-disclosure agreements so there are some things that i can't

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say at this time um sorry just to go back you said you have commercial interest yeah you said

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ipar requirements is that what you said to it itar international uh treaty of on arms regulation

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um itar is like um so if i work on jets or satellites if i'm working on propulsion for

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instance i can't um i can't disclose certain things to non-us citizens um i have to be or

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non-us persons um so like green card holders um are fine um permanent residents um but i just have

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to be careful with with what information that i end up uh disclosing to the international

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community versus U.S. persons when it comes to ITAR requirements. However, you can sidestep a lot of

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ITAR requirements by publishing things in the open source. So we're actually incentivized to put

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things in the open source if we want this to be an international project, and we very much do.

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So we have an incentive to do this also.

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so you you saw your your grandfather lose his his pension you you fall into the austrian

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economics rabbit hole you watched that movie maybe it was zeitgeist is that the one you were

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yes exactly exactly thank you okay and uh come 2020 you're you're into your career um you've

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you've got a job you're probably earning half decent wage you're getting paid for your skill

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set and bam, lockdown, COVID. Is that what finally pushed you into the Bitcoin rabbit hole?

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Did you have the time then? What did life look like for you right at that point?

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Sure. So around 2017, while I was at Purdue University, there was a brilliant engineer

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that I knew who was there.

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He was actually, I'm pretty sure,

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self-described as a socialist.

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And ironically, though, he loved Bitcoin.

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He was an engineer,

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and he saw the beauty of the mathematics

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inside the system.

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And he explained to me that this is the future.

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And I looked into it, and I said,

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man, it is beautiful, but what a pipe dream. Unfortunately, everybody gets in on Bitcoin at

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the price they deserve. I didn't fully decide to research it until the lockdown during 2020.

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I knew that this massive money printing event had happened. I remembered what happened in 2008 to

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my family and thought like, oh, shit, I need to take some sort of action.

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So I started, I dove down the rabbit hole of portfolio theory.

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I'm not sure if you're like, there's this, there's this idea called HFEA, Hedge Fundies

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Excellent Adventure.

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So this is like a very, if you ever end up bored and you want to learn about portfolio

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theory. This is a very interesting way to manage risk and maximize returns based on the way that

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the economy was going from 2000 to basically 2020. It's a very interesting portfolio theory.

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But simultaneously, I saw what happened with GameStop and the way that the market got manipulated

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by some of the clearing.

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It seemed like some of the clearinghouses

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were even in on some of the market manipulation

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at the time.

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And this, so I was like, man,

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we need a system outside of this.

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And that's Bitcoin.

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What books did you turn to at that point?

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When you suddenly realized, holy shit,

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this is Bitcoin.

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I missed it.

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I got to get up to speed.

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Where's the best way for me to download that?

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You know, Neo style in the matrix,

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plug yourself in um you know i i i don't rely on books near as much as i rely on podcasters um

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you know my my just the way that i like to learn i love learning talking to people

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um i would say that like robert breedlove and michael saylor are have been fundamentally um

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instructive, I guess might be a word, um, into the, what, the way that I arrange my philosophy

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in this space. Um, I think that Jason Lowry also has, um, in what, uh, what he's published in

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software. Um, I think that there's a lot of thinking that, that, that makes sense there too.

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Um, but generally speaking, you know, I've, I've tried to get the synopsis of, of what a lot of

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these Austrian economists think as well because I think that the people you know you have to respect

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your heritage and your history with regards to um where this movement really came from

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um but definitely the podcast community has has influenced a lot of the way that that I've

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approached this from a philosophical angle so like what what generally happens is then you you've just

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got to get your hands on some right so I'm sure you were thinking how the hell do I start stacking

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and so how did that how did that then turn into this is what i can do because like you obviously

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we all we all get to that point where it's like right okay enough learning uh i'm stacking as

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hard as i can might have freed up a little bit of time what can i do now with my time to

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you know use the cliche give back or you know lean into this right um so it it this

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on one side um just from a personal standpoint it's like okay what can i do in the immediate

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future while i'm already earning this mechanical engineering degree um i can go work in the uh

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aerospace and defense community um and while i was at northrop rum and you know the government also

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around the COVID lockdowns, a lot of things happened that I did not agree with.

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It was a really painful time for me to see the country that I love.

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I mean, so when I joined the military, I went into the Marine Corps.

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I was an infantryman, and I went to Afghanistan in 2014.

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You know, I fought for the country.

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And 2020 was really, really painful. It made me want, it made me feel very disgusted with the idea of continuing to work in the military sector.

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It made me want to, I didn't feel like this, we were in a direction that felt good with regards to, I don't feel comfortable making weapons.

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Like, I just don't.

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And simultaneously, I took a look around and I saw like, well, where is the hope?

224
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Where's the hopefulness in the aerospace community right now?

225
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Well, it's at SpaceX.

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It's at Blue Origin.

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It's in the commercial space industry.

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And, um, obviously it's not exactly, uh, it non lucrative. I mean, you know, working inside of the space industry is still, obviously it's very fulfilling. You can get paid well. Um, so, so it seemed kind of like a no brainer, but then I looked at what Michael Saylor was building with, with micro strategy.

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And there's a certain amount of leverage that you can get by using business that is just not available to at the same scale as an individual.

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So now in Bitcoin mining is the thing that makes Bitcoin different, in my opinion, at least.

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Obviously, there's the absolute scarcity, but Bitcoin mining and its connection to energy is so much more physical than any other type of cryptocurrency.

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now so so being able to to find what the most massive way to leverage bitcoin mining

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and energy production that that becomes uh if you want to accumulate bitcoin between now

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and the end of time you have to figure out where the best source of the energy is going to be There a movement inside the space industry now to start bringing more computation into orbit

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There's several startups who are exploring this, mostly in the context of AI.

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But nobody's doing it for Bitcoin mining yet.

237
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It's been on people's radar.

238
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People are aware of it.

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But for one reason or another, nobody's looked at Bitcoin mining.

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I don't know if I'm necessarily qualified to be the person to do this, but I am obviously super interested.

241
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If not me, I would love to go work for the guy who's going to do this.

242
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And so far, I've just been putting together the team to say, like, OK, how can how can I make this reality?

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um and so i i've i've really been at a very fortunate time and and and it's been very

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serendipitous to meet the the people that i've met along the way it's such a great topic and i um

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i will make uh an effort to remember to to forward this episode to my wife's partner for the women in

246
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bitcoin uk team uh because she has a phd in uh space law i can't believe there's even such a thing

247
00:24:40,884 --> 00:24:46,684
yeah yeah yeah he would she would certainly be able to help you out in some capacity i'm sure

248
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uh so like this that that's the beauty of the bitcoin network right we just sit down for 20

249
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minutes and already i can think of someone that out there that is going to be lit up by what you're

250
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trying to do and has the skill set to be able to lean in and possibly help uh and it could just be

251
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help with you know reading a document or who knows but uh this is how we build uh all right so

252
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yeah man where to go with all this so yes like the military industrial complex that is a that's

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because when you do find sound money and you do realize that wow okay it this last century has

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been a century of a war machine under a fiat standard and the ability to the country's

255
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superpowers just to be able to print as much money as they possibly can, trade in US dollars,

256
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force people to buy petrol, petroleum in US dollars, force other countries to buy arms and

257
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weapons and tanks and airplanes and everything else in US dollars. When you come to that

258
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realization, you're like, holy crap. And I can't imagine. Well, yeah, like you said, very uncomfortable

259
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realization, especially when you're sitting there inside the belly of the beast. There were dark

260
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days for myself when I learned about Bitcoin. So I spent 18 years in foreign exchange markets.

261
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I couldn't believe what I was a part of that just that extraction machine and being, you know,

262
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in touch with all of the world's banks of, you know, the JP Morgan's Goldman Sachs and how they're

263
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all connected to the Federal Reserve and the Bank of International Settlements and the IMF and

264
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forcing countries into hyperinflate their currencies and whatever else.

265
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And every time the Bank of Japan would intervene,

266
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that would mean more business for us because volatility would spike.

267
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God, shit.

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So I discovered Bitcoin and started unraveling my own demons.

269
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It was pretty bad.

270
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And obviously, you just want to reach as many people as you can

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and help spread the word.

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So, yeah, I feel for you that that must have been pretty bad

273
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coming to that realization sitting there probably at your desk working for you know maybe a military

274
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contract or something yeah you're nodding yeah yeah i at the time when i first uh

275
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when when covid first happened during 2020 um i was at northrop brumman um it was my second

276
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internship there and already the culture had changed dramatically because I interned there

277
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in 2019 as well. And it had a completely different flavor when I came back the second time in my,

278
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um, uh, at the, at the time, my, uh, uh, I, I don't know if, um, I was actually married or not

279
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yet, but my, my, uh, I ended up marrying, uh, my, my college girlfriend at the time. Um,

280
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because she was here on a great, uh, she was here on a student visa and it became, uh, she had lost

281
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her job because everything had closed down. She had already graduated. She was, uh, um, uh,

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master's student who had stayed in the, in the local area and her, uh, she, once she lost her

283
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job. She was going to have to go back home. And this is my girlfriend. So it was like, well,

284
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you know, if I have to marry her to keep her in the States, then, you know, obviously that's the

285
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thing that I'm going to do. Unfortunately, I think that we probably got married a little bit too soon

286
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because that, you know, we ended up departing, parting ways later on. But the having to be away

287
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from her during the lockdown at this internship while America was losing its mind. People were

288
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were rioting. Um, I remember that there was, um, the, the police. So we were in the town of West

289
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Lafayette and over the river was Lafayette. And, uh, somewhere in the town during, during the,

290
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the summer of, uh, all this, there was a big riot that took place. And, you know, I just remember

291
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thinking like, I can't be home right now. Um, and this is awful. And it felt very much

292
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contrived. This didn't feel like something that had to happen. It was, it was mostly a, um,

293
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something that the government had put on. And that, that made me very, very uncomfortable.

294
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Um, especially cause I was working for a company that is very much intertwined with, um, you know,

295
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the military industrial complex in Northrop Brumman is, is one of the, I do want to say

296
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there's a lot of great engineers there there's a lot of great individuals who work at Northrop

297
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Roman I don't and I'm still in contact with those people today but the just the the gravity of the

298
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entire situation did not feel very good um and it made me personally want a change it made me want

299
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to work in space as much as I can um because I do feel like there's a certain amount of hopefulness

300
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hopefulness that is is inside the space industry that just it's not it's not the same thing when

301
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you're working on you know um drones or or you know fighters or or anything like that is when

302
00:30:19,264 --> 00:30:24,084
you're working on a rocket ship and you know thinking about what getting to the moon is going

303
00:30:24,084 --> 00:30:31,284
to be like or getting to mars so what was it about that was it the lockdowns initially or was it

304
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everything just built up upon itself and then vaccines coming in and being

305
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mandated in certain areas and all that kind of stuff. Because like, you know,

306
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you said you've been out, you've been on active duty. I mean,

307
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you've seen real war, real hardship.

308
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Like the fact that we were all just locked down for like the most ridiculous

309
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reasons.

310
00:30:53,504 --> 00:30:57,604
Well, there's a certain amount of, um, what do you call that?

311
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cognitive dissonance, I'm sure that I experienced, like on one hand, I had all these libertarian

312
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views. Um, and simultaneously I joined the Marine Corps. Um, you know, I, I did want to go fight

313
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in Afghanistan, but like, because I knew that other people were going to go in my place if I,

314
00:31:16,324 --> 00:31:22,424
if, if I weren't to go. Um, but simultaneously, like while I was there, like the majority of the,

315
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Like, I don't necessarily, obviously the Taliban have some horrible cultural traditions that they've put in place.

316
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But ultimately, like, I don't have anything against any of these individual people, like, or like farmers or anything like that.

317
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So, like, what, I think that there was a certain amount of cognitive dissonance because I've been part of the government systems for as long as I had.

318
00:31:50,524 --> 00:31:59,104
um simultaneously though when you start seeing the money printing happening and you see the way

319
00:31:59,104 --> 00:32:08,084
that asset prices um explode exponentially it makes you you want to become a a shareholder

320
00:32:08,084 --> 00:32:16,144
of something so where is your value that you generate best placed well it's best placed in

321
00:32:16,144 --> 00:32:23,104
thing that absolutely cannot be inflated. And as you know, as the Bitcoin community knows,

322
00:32:24,784 --> 00:32:30,064
that's Bitcoin. And I think that being able to get involved in the education of that,

323
00:32:32,624 --> 00:32:41,824
it's a very, very deep technical field. There's a lot to be learned. So I think that part of my

324
00:32:41,824 --> 00:32:49,804
engineering brain was drawn to that. But generally, I do think that this is going to be the financial

325
00:32:49,804 --> 00:32:56,404
rails of the 21st century. And I think it's very important that if I can be involved in the stand

326
00:32:56,404 --> 00:33:00,284
up of those financial rails in some way, I absolutely want to be.

327
00:33:02,104 --> 00:33:07,204
Did you know, because I did not know, I think someone pointed out to me about six to nine

328
00:33:07,204 --> 00:33:15,044
months ago that the the world military olympic games took place in october of 2019 in wuhan

329
00:33:15,044 --> 00:33:23,284
oh i didn't know that i don't i've never even it's unbelievable so when when like yeah everybody

330
00:33:23,284 --> 00:33:29,644
put your tinfoil hat on but that's anybody can go and wikipedia that right now it's there and for

331
00:33:29,644 --> 00:33:37,504
at all to see where thousands of military personnel were all in wuhan a month before

332
00:33:37,504 --> 00:33:46,383
the virus leaked and you know from every part of the globe right you know all militaries would

333
00:33:46,383 --> 00:33:51,404
have been uh present and representing their country and uh in their sports and whatever else

334
00:33:51,404 --> 00:34:06,264
So all these young athletes, military, and you just have to wonder how easy would it have been to infect that amount of people and then send them all off back to their homes.

335
00:34:06,444 --> 00:34:10,024
Anyway, look, like conspiracy theories aside, I just wanted to bring that up.

336
00:34:10,324 --> 00:34:12,504
You can go and do your own digging into that one.

337
00:34:12,864 --> 00:34:15,524
Just the timeline is crazy.

338
00:34:15,524 --> 00:34:25,864
uh so how then how on earth do you get how many asics are you looking to get in a satellite i

339
00:34:25,864 --> 00:34:30,484
mean what's the whole setup here i like i'm gonna have to ask the dumbest questions are we sending

340
00:34:30,484 --> 00:34:36,604
are we sending something up the size of a shoebox or the size of a shipping container like you know

341
00:34:36,604 --> 00:34:45,383
what does this whole thing look like sure so um there is i i i have to admit that there the

342
00:34:45,383 --> 00:34:49,224
the route in which this very specific package

343
00:34:49,224 --> 00:34:51,784
that we're going to be sending up is still in flux.

344
00:34:51,784 --> 00:34:54,364
This is still a work in progress.

345
00:34:55,784 --> 00:34:58,624
But there is, generally speaking,

346
00:34:58,624 --> 00:35:01,764
it's safe to say that we're going to start small.

347
00:35:01,764 --> 00:35:17,396
So this is more than likely going to be part of a CubeSat mission first Now additionally there several there two different ways that you can send up a CubeSat You can either do you can either make your own

348
00:35:17,396 --> 00:35:22,856
satellite and send that up, or you can do something called Rideshare. So Rideshare would be that we

349
00:35:22,856 --> 00:35:31,755
make a certain component that goes onto a CubeSat, and we send that component up as part of a larger

350
00:35:31,755 --> 00:35:35,995
mission. And that's actually going to be cheaper for us to do. So that's probably going to be the

351
00:35:35,995 --> 00:35:46,655
route that we'll be taking. Now, with regards to the how many ASICs, we want to be able to have

352
00:35:46,655 --> 00:35:54,975
as much data as possible. So we're hoping to be able to have three ASICs on our initial trip.

353
00:35:54,975 --> 00:36:00,575
One ASIC can pull anywhere from like 8 to 12 watts typically.

354
00:36:01,255 --> 00:36:13,115
So this puts us around 30 watts of power probably once you count all the peripheries, like the controllers that it takes to run the ASICs and other things.

355
00:36:13,196 --> 00:36:15,215
That will probably put us around 35 watts.

356
00:36:16,275 --> 00:36:21,155
So 35 watts is a lot of power with regards to a CubeSat also.

357
00:36:21,155 --> 00:36:33,755
So with that, you have to design the system in a way that makes a lot of sense for this initial mission.

358
00:36:34,376 --> 00:36:39,255
And you want it to last as long as possible so we can get data for as long as possible.

359
00:36:40,075 --> 00:36:44,475
Some CubeSat missions will only take place for a month.

360
00:36:44,835 --> 00:36:46,356
Some go on for years.

361
00:36:46,356 --> 00:36:52,155
um we definitely would like to be part of a mission that's that's closer to the year time scale

362
00:36:52,155 --> 00:36:59,135
um can i just ask sorry sorry i'm gonna interrupt with dumb questions no no go ahead um so if it

363
00:36:59,135 --> 00:37:04,755
lasts for a month what happens to the thing after a month what it doesn't just land itself i'm

364
00:37:04,755 --> 00:37:14,315
assuming right so there are um some of these uh some instruments are you know some cubesats just

365
00:37:14,315 --> 00:37:21,055
their mission life is purposefully made so short because they don't, you do have to deorbit your

366
00:37:21,055 --> 00:37:29,896
satellite per, I believe it's the FAA regulations, within 15 years of launching, I believe. So

367
00:37:29,896 --> 00:37:39,095
if you have a mission where you can send it up and run through your checklist and your, you know,

368
00:37:39,095 --> 00:37:40,675
your mission is complete after,

369
00:37:41,315 --> 00:37:45,495
and it only takes you a month to complete every aspect of your mission,

370
00:37:45,495 --> 00:37:47,416
then there's no reason to keep the satellite up there.

371
00:37:47,575 --> 00:37:48,815
You're just taking up space.

372
00:37:49,416 --> 00:37:51,655
So, so that's one reason why people will deorbit.

373
00:37:53,155 --> 00:37:56,775
But talking about the harshness of space, there's, there's,

374
00:37:56,856 --> 00:38:02,235
so what we just talked about with regards to collision events,

375
00:38:02,655 --> 00:38:06,535
you want to make sure that you can minimize collision events.

376
00:38:06,535 --> 00:38:13,555
because obviously things are traveling at thousands of miles per hour while they're in orbit.

377
00:38:14,015 --> 00:38:19,795
So even if you have something the size of a grain of rice, if it impacts your satellite,

378
00:38:19,795 --> 00:38:23,075
that's going to be a, you know, you're going to notice.

379
00:38:24,555 --> 00:38:29,456
But the largest difference between terrestrial mining and what's going to take place in orbit

380
00:38:29,456 --> 00:38:31,255
is going to be the radiation aspect.

381
00:38:32,155 --> 00:38:38,835
So I do want to say that I strongly believe that this is going to be something that we can handle.

382
00:38:39,315 --> 00:38:42,475
But just like everything else, it takes careful engineering.

383
00:38:43,615 --> 00:38:54,155
When you leave Earth's, when you leave the closeness of Earth, depending on where you're at, you lose the protection of the magnetosphere.

384
00:38:54,155 --> 00:39:03,696
And what that means is that you're no longer protected by the magnetic poles and their inherent protection from radiation.

385
00:39:04,495 --> 00:39:10,095
So there is more ionizing radiation in orbit than there is on Earth.

386
00:39:10,715 --> 00:39:15,356
But that doesn't mean that there can't be more compute in orbit.

387
00:39:15,575 --> 00:39:16,975
It just has to be designed around.

388
00:39:17,975 --> 00:39:23,335
So the CubeSat gets sent up, CubeSatellite.

389
00:39:23,335 --> 00:39:30,055
uh yeah what kind of mining machines are you putting in there i've just googled an image

390
00:39:30,055 --> 00:39:36,775
they're pretty small these things so how do you have you got anything sure so so i've actually got

391
00:39:36,775 --> 00:39:42,195
something that i wanted to uh you know kind of show off now this is uh this is just like a what

392
00:39:42,195 --> 00:39:48,095
would you say like a processing prototype this is by no means functional um this is not uh something

393
00:39:48,095 --> 00:39:52,595
that we would be sending to space but this is just kind of to show and demonstrate the form factors

394
00:39:52,595 --> 00:39:53,815
that we're talking about here.

395
00:39:54,476 --> 00:39:57,195
So this is a BitX from the BitX community.

396
00:39:58,315 --> 00:40:02,255
You know, they're part of the Open Source Miners United,

397
00:40:02,255 --> 00:40:05,775
which I don't know if your listeners are,

398
00:40:06,035 --> 00:40:10,295
how connected they are with that ecosystem,

399
00:40:10,675 --> 00:40:13,595
but I highly encourage people to get involved

400
00:40:13,595 --> 00:40:15,356
with the Open Source Miners United.

401
00:40:15,856 --> 00:40:18,595
It's very fulfilling, at least for me,

402
00:40:18,896 --> 00:40:21,916
to learn about the real physical hardware of these systems.

403
00:40:22,595 --> 00:40:28,055
So this is kind of what we're imagining for our first system and what it's going to look like.

404
00:40:28,416 --> 00:40:30,015
This is a bid axe.

405
00:40:30,095 --> 00:40:32,275
This one pulls probably about 15 watts.

406
00:40:32,675 --> 00:40:37,775
I've removed the fan system from this one and then laminated it onto a solar cell.

407
00:40:39,396 --> 00:40:43,175
And there's a thermal interface material in between these.

408
00:40:43,175 --> 00:40:49,835
It's both bonding the two components together.

409
00:40:49,835 --> 00:40:55,615
And it's also made to transfer heat from these two surfaces.

410
00:40:57,035 --> 00:41:04,815
Now, the final product is going to have another panel on this side, probably made out of aluminum,

411
00:41:05,376 --> 00:41:10,695
that will have that same thermal interface material that will have a very high thermal conductivity.

412
00:41:12,055 --> 00:41:14,015
And that will be our radiator panel.

413
00:41:14,095 --> 00:41:16,055
So that's going to be what's radiating heat away.

414
00:41:16,055 --> 00:41:25,396
Now, this single solar cell, this pulls five volts at 400 milliamps.

415
00:41:25,695 --> 00:41:31,396
So you would actually need 10 of these in parallel to be able to power this one bit axe.

416
00:41:31,735 --> 00:41:35,956
But that just gives people kind of a scale of what we're working with here.

417
00:41:36,115 --> 00:41:42,295
So 10 of these in parallel, that's about what you're talking about inside typical CubeSat form factors.

418
00:41:42,295 --> 00:41:48,075
so once once you've got the cube set up there you got to hitch a ride first of all

419
00:41:48,075 --> 00:41:51,876
but yeah how do you get the thing up there and how much does that cost

420
00:41:51,876 --> 00:42:00,995
sure so um if you go on to spacex's website and you see like what the cost would be for you to put

421
00:42:00,995 --> 00:42:07,835
a uh you know anything up there typically the the number that you're going to see is like 300 000

422
00:42:07,835 --> 00:42:15,575
um three hundred thousand dollars for for a launch so um typically you know but then you see that the

423
00:42:15,575 --> 00:42:20,856
the the launch prices the lowest launch price has been around fifteen hundred dollars per kilogram

424
00:42:20,856 --> 00:42:27,755
so um you know that that doesn't exactly make sense to people well the the reason why is that

425
00:42:27,755 --> 00:42:34,755
there's there's subcontractors who who um have things called cubesat deployers that act as a

426
00:42:34,755 --> 00:42:42,535
middleman. So those CubeSat deployers, companies like DeOrbit, XO Launch, for example, those guys,

427
00:42:42,795 --> 00:42:50,735
they make these specifically made mechanisms that attach to SpaceX's satellite. They're the

428
00:42:50,735 --> 00:42:57,876
ones who deploy out the CubeSats for, and that's where you start getting into the cheaper launches.

429
00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:10,255
Now, even then, you can make this a cheaper process by being just a component on somebody else's CubeSat.

430
00:43:10,255 --> 00:43:34,035
So if somebody else is already sending up a CubeSat and you have like a solar panel that just happens to mine Bitcoin, too, if you want to turn it on and mine Bitcoin, you know, then you start working through the engineering, through the mission integration to say like, OK, here's going to be the periods where our device will be active.

431
00:43:34,035 --> 00:43:36,675
We're not going to interfere with your primary mission.

432
00:43:37,175 --> 00:43:44,815
It is very carefully orchestrated, and there's a lot of work to be done on this integration topic still.

433
00:43:45,555 --> 00:43:53,055
But being as non-intrusive allows you to hitch a ride on people's satellites that they're already putting up.

434
00:43:54,035 --> 00:43:55,456
That would make a lot of sense.

435
00:43:57,795 --> 00:44:01,595
So the thing gets up there.

436
00:44:01,675 --> 00:44:02,255
You hitch the ride.

437
00:44:02,255 --> 00:44:09,775
have you thought about like i mean you're probably not close to this but crowdsourcing a launch or

438
00:44:09,775 --> 00:44:13,956
raising funds through geyser or something like that because i'm sure a bunch of people would be

439
00:44:13,956 --> 00:44:20,115
very interested just like have their imaginations lit up here and what a way to decentralize mining

440
00:44:20,115 --> 00:44:27,075
uh i'll have more questions around that uh in a minute but uh yeah your thoughts on um

441
00:44:27,075 --> 00:44:33,295
like get investment from individuals rather than you know relying on joint ventures or anything

442
00:44:33,295 --> 00:44:41,876
like that right and this is this is something that i'm i i i want to find the right fit for this to

443
00:44:41,876 --> 00:44:49,976
i think that this is going to be the dominant form of bitcoin mining um i i truly believe that

444
00:44:49,976 --> 00:44:56,775
um there's and the reason why is that that's a huge call like so like the amount of like we've

445
00:44:56,775 --> 00:45:02,795
got what at the moment you know how it yeah it's a thousand eggs a hash right is that what we've uh

446
00:45:02,795 --> 00:45:10,575
something that's a lot of power terrestrial based power moving to space in in europe right

447
00:45:10,575 --> 00:45:18,495
so so so on that the um if you've ever seen the uh the diagrams that show like how much solar power

448
00:45:18,495 --> 00:45:24,835
it takes to be able to run a country it's always like a couple counties work yes yeah i have yeah

449
00:45:24,835 --> 00:45:31,295
so so so on that note when you when you start talking about the power availability in orbit

450
00:45:31,295 --> 00:45:37,715
there are certain orbital trajectories that allow you to have um constant exposure to the sun

451
00:45:37,715 --> 00:45:44,495
so what that means is is that um on earth you have about a thousand watts per square meter

452
00:45:44,495 --> 00:45:50,255
um that's how much power hits the the earth at any given time with regards to solar power

453
00:45:50,255 --> 00:45:57,095
in space because there's no atmospheric attenuation of that solar power it's actually

454
00:45:57,095 --> 00:46:07,115
closer to 13 1340 watts per square meter so already right there you have a 34 percent increase

455
00:46:07,115 --> 00:46:16,055
now there's no day night cycle so you can always experience high noon so these these types of

456
00:46:16,055 --> 00:46:21,035
orbits are called dawn-dusk orbits because they they ride a thing called the terminator line

457
00:46:21,035 --> 00:46:25,896
so it always kind of appears like if you look at the earth you can it always appears like it's dawn

458
00:46:25,896 --> 00:46:35,795
um in these types of orbits but what this means is you have 24 uh 7 exposure to 1340 watts

459
00:46:35,795 --> 00:46:43,715
so you end up with around four times as much power um is even the best locations that you could

460
00:46:43,715 --> 00:46:46,215
for solar terrestrially.

461
00:46:47,495 --> 00:46:52,396
So in Arizona, which is the best place to put a miner,

462
00:46:52,447 --> 00:46:59,427
For solar power in America, you'll get around eight kilowatts of energy per day.

463
00:46:59,427 --> 00:47:08,287
But in space, it's actually closer to 32 kilowatts per day, which is quite, pardon me, which is quite significant.

464
00:47:08,847 --> 00:47:15,567
And additionally, that power, it's a monomodal distribution.

465
00:47:15,567 --> 00:47:23,007
So like the terrestrially, that power is it reaches its peak around noon.

466
00:47:23,187 --> 00:47:26,347
That's when you get your your thousand watts per square meter.

467
00:47:26,927 --> 00:47:35,007
Other than that, you're still, you know, because the Earth has to your sunlight is going through so much of the atmosphere that power is actually less so.

468
00:47:36,387 --> 00:47:40,907
But in orbit, it's very constantly delivered.

469
00:47:40,907 --> 00:47:47,007
1340 watts and of course this fluctuates depending on how far away the earth is from the sun

470
00:47:47,007 --> 00:47:56,367
but it's it's 1340 1360 watts per square meter is around what you can constantly expect to be

471
00:47:56,367 --> 00:48:03,247
delivered while in low earth orbit so once it's up there and it's in low earth orbit and it's been

472
00:48:03,247 --> 00:48:09,107
released from the dock of the shuttle or whatever else it gets out there does it float out some

473
00:48:09,107 --> 00:48:16,047
some solar panels is that the way that and then your machines are just powered directly from that

474
00:48:16,047 --> 00:48:27,027
that's yeah so so typically um inside of a solar system like inside of a um a solar panel system

475
00:48:27,027 --> 00:48:33,147
you'll have a thing called an mppt controller this is a maximum powerpoint tracking controller

476
00:48:33,147 --> 00:48:48,147
So what this does is it has little resistors that sense the current generated by the solar panels, the current required by the primary mission of the satellite.

477
00:48:48,487 --> 00:48:58,107
So this is going to be things like your communication systems, your thrusters, whatever you have going on inside your satellite that will be used in transients.

478
00:48:58,107 --> 00:49:05,467
so you have your power generation you have your primary mission and then you have your battery

479
00:49:05,467 --> 00:49:15,687
so your battery is um you want that to be uh that will be charged for when you enter uh if you're

480
00:49:15,687 --> 00:49:21,987
not in a dawn dusk orbit there will be periods where you um you'll you'll be eclipsed by the

481
00:49:21,987 --> 00:49:27,667
earth so during that eclipse period you won't have any power generation you have to rely on

482
00:49:27,667 --> 00:49:36,547
that battery during that time. However, regardless of your type of orbit, there are going to be

483
00:49:36,547 --> 00:49:41,447
periods where your primary emission will not be active and your battery will be full.

484
00:49:42,767 --> 00:49:49,407
This is very similar to what happens to terrestrial grids when there's no demand.

485
00:49:50,867 --> 00:49:56,307
So what do people do when there's no demand? Well, they Bitcoin mine. So effectively,

486
00:49:56,307 --> 00:50:01,227
what I'm hoping that this is going to take place is this is going to be a paradigm shift

487
00:50:01,227 --> 00:50:08,287
within the space industry. This will be a way for satellites to monetize their downtime.

488
00:50:08,907 --> 00:50:14,487
And this is a very, very powerful concept. And the implications of that right now,

489
00:50:14,487 --> 00:50:19,587
there's only about 100 megawatts of power in orbit. The majority of that is Starlink.

490
00:50:20,587 --> 00:50:25,247
But by the 2030s, some projections say that there's going to be 250 megawatts.

491
00:50:25,247 --> 00:50:27,887
Some say there's going to be 850 megawatts.

492
00:50:28,367 --> 00:50:30,987
So, and this is a trend that won't be reversing.

493
00:50:31,267 --> 00:50:33,307
We're going to put more power in space.

494
00:50:34,527 --> 00:50:36,087
How do we use that effectively?

495
00:50:36,807 --> 00:50:38,907
And how do we drive down those power costs?

496
00:50:39,387 --> 00:50:41,227
I think Bitcoin mining is a big part of that.

497
00:50:41,927 --> 00:50:48,227
So what kind of satellites would be up there at the moment, you know, wasting that dead time?

498
00:50:48,227 --> 00:50:54,067
Have you got any, like, solid examples where Bitcoin mining in space fixes this?

499
00:50:55,247 --> 00:51:01,887
Yeah, I mean, so one of the, somebody I've been in contact with is this guy named Brian Ignaut.

500
00:51:02,027 --> 00:51:07,827
Brian Ignaut is the, he was, I guess you would call him the lead power engineer for Starlink.

501
00:51:09,547 --> 00:51:13,467
I've been in talks with him about what this looks like.

502
00:51:14,047 --> 00:51:16,947
And even Starlink has these periods of downtime.

503
00:51:17,707 --> 00:51:22,187
You can imagine if you're designing a satellite, you're going to have to,

504
00:51:22,187 --> 00:51:29,407
So the majority of power will go to communication systems with regards to Starlink.

505
00:51:30,147 --> 00:51:39,047
They have a phased array antenna that's pointing down towards Earth.

506
00:51:39,407 --> 00:51:48,087
So they're seeing how many people have those Starlink terminals and they're directing power and data all based on where those Starlink terminals are.

507
00:51:48,087 --> 00:51:52,507
But there's going to be periods where they're going to be flying over the Atlantic Ocean.

508
00:51:53,147 --> 00:51:54,927
There's not going to be very many terminals there.

509
00:51:55,507 --> 00:52:00,507
So inherent with that, if they're still exposed to the sun, there's nothing for those satellites to do.

510
00:52:01,027 --> 00:52:02,247
But they could mine Bitcoin.

511
00:52:03,207 --> 00:52:09,647
And there's even satellites that aren't made with communication in mind.

512
00:52:09,927 --> 00:52:11,387
They still have thrusters.

513
00:52:11,687 --> 00:52:16,267
And the majority of thrusters that are used today are Hall effect thrusters.

514
00:52:16,267 --> 00:52:27,187
So these are actually, they're mostly electrically driven, meaning that part of your power has to go to your propulsion system.

515
00:52:27,427 --> 00:52:36,747
If you're not always propulsing, that means that you have a certain amount of engineering margin built in there to where you have more power than you need inherently.

516
00:52:37,407 --> 00:52:41,147
So Bitcoin mining can act as a load during those downtimes.

517
00:52:42,707 --> 00:52:44,267
That's incredible.

518
00:52:44,267 --> 00:52:55,927
and then you've created a revenue stream uh over the go ahead well you you effectively subsidize

519
00:52:55,927 --> 00:53:04,027
the the power costs this is incredibly important because right now um starlink and project kuiper

520
00:53:04,027 --> 00:53:11,987
which is amazon's equivalent um project kuiper is already moving to terrestrial grade solar cells

521
00:53:11,987 --> 00:53:17,307
because they're trying to find every way to cut power costs.

522
00:53:17,807 --> 00:53:19,867
Power is hugely expensive in space.

523
00:53:20,567 --> 00:53:24,427
So things like Bitcoin mining are absolutely the type of technology

524
00:53:24,427 --> 00:53:28,167
that the industry needs to be able to drive down these power costs.

525
00:53:28,967 --> 00:53:31,547
I truly think in 10 years' time,

526
00:53:31,647 --> 00:53:34,207
people are going to look back at this and think that it's a no-brainer.

527
00:53:35,407 --> 00:53:36,667
I may look like an idiot,

528
00:53:36,667 --> 00:53:42,087
but I think it's going to be the former rather than the latter.

529
00:53:42,527 --> 00:53:44,587
And in the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun.

530
00:53:44,967 --> 00:53:49,767
So I think that this is definitely a good path to be on.

531
00:53:49,907 --> 00:53:54,807
And if you've got a satellite up there for months and years on end,

532
00:53:55,087 --> 00:53:58,927
just consistently picking up that dead time mining sats,

533
00:53:59,627 --> 00:54:03,207
that's going to compound over time.

534
00:54:03,347 --> 00:54:06,087
Obviously, we all know what Bitcoin, the power of Bitcoin does,

535
00:54:06,087 --> 00:54:11,327
and that will drive down the cost and expenditure of your next launch.

536
00:54:11,787 --> 00:54:16,647
Or you can use that money to put into R&D to make your product better.

537
00:54:16,827 --> 00:54:20,647
I mean, everything Bitcoin touches, it just reshapes it.

538
00:54:20,707 --> 00:54:22,707
It's absolutely unbelievable.

539
00:54:23,407 --> 00:54:26,307
So, like, dumb question number 645.

540
00:54:27,067 --> 00:54:28,667
Obviously, Wi-Fi connection.

541
00:54:28,887 --> 00:54:31,287
Are you just hooking up to Starlink whilst you're up there?

542
00:54:31,287 --> 00:54:39,167
well so there's um this is not a dumb question actually this is this is a huge problem as a

543
00:54:39,167 --> 00:54:47,367
matter of fact um there was uh being able to talk continuously is very important for the bit for

544
00:54:47,367 --> 00:54:55,987
bitcoin mining um also attached to uh like part of the reason why bitcoin mining is a great platform

545
00:54:55,987 --> 00:55:02,027
for that excess energy is because of the low data rate associated with Bitcoin mining.

546
00:55:02,507 --> 00:55:06,467
You know, we think that if we have a 50 kilobit per second connection,

547
00:55:07,087 --> 00:55:12,587
that we're going to be able to communicate with more than enough bandwidth.

548
00:55:13,547 --> 00:55:19,147
And we're aiming for less than two seconds round trip time with regards to latency.

549
00:55:19,767 --> 00:55:24,627
Even then, we're probably going to be missing some of the mining efficiency

550
00:55:24,627 --> 00:55:30,327
with a two-second latency, but that's perfectly fine, at least to get started.

551
00:55:32,607 --> 00:55:38,867
There is a movement inside the space industry to move to more continuous connection in general.

552
00:55:39,427 --> 00:55:44,527
So Starlink currently, they're very low in orbit.

553
00:55:45,487 --> 00:55:49,467
SpaceX is going to be coming out with a device that they're calling the Plug-in Plaser,

554
00:55:49,967 --> 00:55:53,167
which is a very silly name, but it's a very serious device.

555
00:55:53,167 --> 00:56:03,867
So this is going to be a commercial off-the-shelf component that SpaceX is going to sell, that they're going to stick one end of the terminal on the top of the Starlink satellites.

556
00:56:04,347 --> 00:56:14,887
So since they're very low, if your satellites are above Starlink satellites, you can communicate with the Starlink satellites by having the other end of the terminal that will point downward.

557
00:56:14,887 --> 00:56:23,247
um additionally there are uh satellites that today so so that starlink system the plug-in

558
00:56:23,247 --> 00:56:32,087
placer is currently not available um but there's also these uh uh uh geo satellites that are

559
00:56:32,087 --> 00:56:40,387
available today so this is if um i'm not mistaken this is actually what um uh blockstream is using

560
00:56:40,387 --> 00:56:45,207
for miners to be able to continuously mine no matter what location that they're at.

561
00:56:45,967 --> 00:56:53,787
That same phased array antenna, instead of just pointing at a certain part of the Earth,

562
00:56:54,027 --> 00:56:55,667
can point at a satellite in orbit.

563
00:56:56,427 --> 00:57:00,247
And you can have continuous internet connection that way.

564
00:57:01,927 --> 00:57:10,067
Generally speaking, though, those communication satellites are a really good customer.

565
00:57:10,067 --> 00:57:15,367
so to speak of this technology just because they're already inherently yeah i mean they're

566
00:57:15,367 --> 00:57:22,147
communication satellites by by um design so they're inherently made for um being continuously

567
00:57:22,147 --> 00:57:29,367
connected to one another so and with the heat uh obviously the bitx i've got a couple running that

568
00:57:29,367 --> 00:57:36,427
is very minimal amount of heat but that's inside of a like a big room you know not a tiny little cube

569
00:57:36,427 --> 00:57:43,347
uh is there an exhaust system like what what what's the how's that going to work

570
00:57:43,347 --> 00:57:50,747
sure um heat is a probably going to be the biggest engineering challenge that we're going to be

571
00:57:50,747 --> 00:57:57,167
tackling um i hate to say it but the the electronics design for these systems is is

572
00:57:57,167 --> 00:58:13,980
really not too awfully complex um uh the the thermal challenges associated with this are going to be very hard So what you have on Earth is you have you know there three modes of heat transfer

573
00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:19,040
You have conduction, you have convection, and you have radiation. So

574
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:26,440
conduction is still going to be present in space. This is basically how you can,

575
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:34,160
you'll move heat from one place to another inside the spacecraft, but you won't have convection

576
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,900
because convection has to deal with the transportation of heat through fluids.

577
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:48,100
So now it is to say that you can use things like heat pipes in space. You still have heat pipes.

578
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:53,660
So some people may be familiar with copper water heat pipes inside computer systems.

579
00:58:53,660 --> 00:59:01,260
in satellites typically these heat pipes because they're transporting heat across longer distances

580
00:59:01,260 --> 00:59:09,760
these are ammonia and aluminum heat pipes so but it's the same system generally they they conduct

581
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:17,180
heat very very quickly but typically speaking you don't have convection in the way that you're not

582
00:59:17,180 --> 00:59:23,600
surrounded by a medium. Your medium is vacuum. So what that means is, is you have to design your

583
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:31,060
heat transfer for radiation, which means designing for absorptivity and emissivity, which is not

584
00:59:31,060 --> 00:59:36,540
something that we very much deal with on a day-to-day basis on earth. But if you've ever

585
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:44,700
seen like scientists talk about super white paint or super black paint, the reason why that is so

586
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:52,320
technologically interesting is because of the high absorptivity and emissivity associated with

587
00:59:52,320 --> 01:00:00,880
these products. So really, we have to design our system to radiate as much heat away as possible.

588
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:08,880
The mathematics associated with this are really interesting. And I won't go into too much

589
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:17,080
technical detail, but the power emitted is proportional to the temperature in Kelvin to

590
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:25,540
the power of four. So if you have a large temperature difference between your surface

591
01:00:25,540 --> 01:00:32,780
that you're radiating and the surface you're radiating to, which in space we can radiate to

592
01:00:32,780 --> 01:00:39,580
the blackness of space, deep space, which has a Kelvin temperature of two to three degrees Kelvin,

593
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:45,900
that means that we can have a huge temperature difference. So we can generate, we can radiate

594
01:00:45,900 --> 01:00:51,480
away a massive amount of heat if we keep things in the shade. If we expose them to the sun,

595
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,420
they're going to be hit with that 1340 watts per square meter. So things can get quite hot,

596
01:00:56,420 --> 01:00:59,740
but they can also get quite cold.

597
01:01:00,340 --> 01:01:05,020
So it's about careful engineering to make those two systems make some sort of equilibrium

598
01:01:05,020 --> 01:01:07,280
that a Bitcoin miner can live inside.

599
01:01:09,140 --> 01:01:09,700
Wow.

600
01:01:11,180 --> 01:01:13,640
And this is rocket science stuff we're talking about now.

601
01:01:15,260 --> 01:01:21,440
I mean, you know, I, you know, it, yeah, it is.

602
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:28,980
But really, I don't think that that's any reason to be scared of what's going on here.

603
01:01:28,980 --> 01:01:50,700
Like, you know, when you talk about rocket science stuff, when I went to go work at Blue Origin, I was very much intimidated on my first days, walking around and shaking hands with people who worked on, you know, the orbiter, people who worked on the space shuttle program, people who worked on very secret government stuff.

604
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:56,340
But just seeing that they're just regular people, they're engineers, they make mistakes.

605
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,420
They're very imperfect.

606
01:01:59,220 --> 01:02:01,060
This is a hard thing to do.

607
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,000
And there's systems in place that we have to respect as engineers.

608
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:12,160
But we're actually kind of treading on ground that has already been broken.

609
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:13,580
People have done this before.

610
01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:16,740
It's about doing it again with Bitcoin and doing it right.

611
01:02:16,740 --> 01:02:22,620
did those women go into space or was that just a complete and utter total theatrical

612
01:02:22,620 --> 01:02:28,520
say that again did the women that they showed up into space in the blue origin thing

613
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:36,940
it depends on your definition of space um you know the uh blue origin breaks the carmen line

614
01:02:36,940 --> 01:02:46,380
so so so yes um i would say so um however if you saw the inspiration for mission um

615
01:02:46,380 --> 01:02:56,440
You know, the what SpaceX was able to do by putting people in a dragon capsule and orbit the Earth like, you know, there's levels to this game.

616
01:02:57,540 --> 01:03:01,320
What is the definition of space? That's one thing I've never even thought of asking.

617
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:07,900
As someone that's never been in this field, like you just think, all right, yeah.

618
01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:10,820
So you get high enough and you're in space and then you float.

619
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,740
And I'm sure it's a lot more than that.

620
01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:18,960
What are the different levels and how do you guys, like you actual space engineers, think about it?

621
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:34,480
Sure. So, I mean, basically, as you as you leave Earth, you know, the most simple way, obviously talking about pressure, as you as you exit, as you as you increase your altitude, you're going to experience less pressure.

622
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:42,560
And effectively, what this is, is like, excuse me, you just don't have as many air molecules pressing against running into you.

623
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:47,940
So you experience less pressure as you go up, which is which is one consideration.

624
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:54,960
Additionally, you know, what we talked about earlier with the magnetosphere and radiation, that's another thing.

625
01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:03,181
Um, you know, typically the, I think that probably the, the, the best definition of,

626
01:04:03,181 --> 01:04:11,340
you know, being in space is probably the Carmen line, um, which is like the, the target that

627
01:04:11,340 --> 01:04:18,360
blue origin was specifically going after with, with, um, new shepherd and the, and those launches

628
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:24,060
being able to bring people above the Carmen line, which is if, um, so Virgin Galactic,

629
01:04:24,060 --> 01:04:25,900
with their

630
01:04:25,900 --> 01:04:28,160
Spaceship One

631
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,740
in the White Knight 2 system

632
01:04:30,740 --> 01:04:32,740
it's a plane

633
01:04:32,740 --> 01:04:34,140
that brings up another

634
01:04:34,140 --> 01:04:36,340
little spacecraft that

635
01:04:36,340 --> 01:04:38,560
it's horizontally launched, comes off

636
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,181
of a runway

637
01:04:40,181 --> 01:04:42,080
those that

638
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:44,500
very much if you see pictures

639
01:04:44,500 --> 01:04:46,500
from those trips, you'll

640
01:04:46,500 --> 01:04:46,900
think

641
01:04:46,900 --> 01:04:50,200
for all intents and purposes

642
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,540
you would have trouble breathing if you opened up the

643
01:04:52,540 --> 01:04:53,960
door, it is space

644
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:59,400
however it's not above the carmen line it is at the end of the day it's all kind of arbitrary

645
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:05,240
it's just it's a very great it's a it's like autism it's a uh it's a spectrum so to speak

646
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:15,300
uh right okay so we got to wi-fi uh so that's solved so you can mine and then you can uh

647
01:05:15,300 --> 01:05:20,960
interact with the uh with the blockchain uh then you've got to consider

648
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,040
connecting to a pool, I guess.

649
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,280
Have those discussions even come up yet?

650
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:29,960
Or is it going to be solo mining?

651
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:32,300
Well, yeah.

652
01:05:32,300 --> 01:05:37,300
So solo mining is a...

653
01:05:37,980 --> 01:05:40,700
And to be frank, to even get started on this,

654
01:05:40,780 --> 01:05:44,240
to characterize the ASIC's performance in space,

655
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,300
you don't even have to be connected to...

656
01:05:47,300 --> 01:05:48,580
You don't have to...

657
01:05:48,580 --> 01:05:52,840
that connectivity requirement, the chip is still going to perform the same.

658
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,840
So we can still diagnose everything without that connectivity.

659
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:06,440
However, being part of a pool is going to be inherent to this.

660
01:06:07,340 --> 01:06:11,700
I will say that I have people on my team.

661
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:13,840
really

662
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,420
there's a man named

663
01:06:16,420 --> 01:06:17,460
Bob McElrath

664
01:06:17,460 --> 01:06:19,700
who has spent the

665
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:22,380
last decade

666
01:06:22,380 --> 01:06:24,460
of his life working in Bitcoin

667
01:06:24,460 --> 01:06:26,600
he's been

668
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:27,980
the lead engineer on a

669
01:06:27,980 --> 01:06:29,560
project called Braidpool

670
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,320
which I

671
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,520
I will admit

672
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,480
a lot of this stuff goes over my head

673
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:37,900
it's talking about DAGs

674
01:06:37,900 --> 01:06:40,140
it's very very deep into the technical

675
01:06:40,140 --> 01:06:41,340
weeds of Bitcoin

676
01:06:41,340 --> 01:06:43,340
and Bitcoin mining.

677
01:06:44,941 --> 01:06:48,920
But Braidpool is a very beautiful system.

678
01:06:49,060 --> 01:06:51,181
It's very hard to argue against its utility.

679
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,660
I think a system like that,

680
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:57,340
because Bob is on my...

681
01:06:57,340 --> 01:07:02,720
He's been very helpful in getting right connections

682
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:06,420
and figuring out how to do this in the first place,

683
01:07:06,460 --> 01:07:07,840
how to run a business in general.

684
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,040
I think that something like Braidpool

685
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:18,000
we're very much incentivized to to explore that specifically because i am familiar with

686
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:26,941
the technology and i can see it see its advantages um but the uh generally speaking you know if you

687
01:07:26,941 --> 01:07:33,240
can connect to a pool it's it's it's better to do so than not um solo mining is is kind of like

688
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,441
buying a lottery ticket to a certain degree.

689
01:07:38,140 --> 01:07:45,720
I can just see now you're going to have big mining operations coming,

690
01:07:45,860 --> 01:07:50,201
coming to you guys to, to handle their,

691
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,600
their space mining operations, right? You can,

692
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,400
I know you wanted to open source as much, but this is so specific.

693
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,560
Like this is, this is real specific stuff.

694
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:17,800
And if you've got a terrestrial mining operation and the best way, if this is successful and you guys can come up with a proof of concept and show people it works, the best way you can diversify and grow your company would be in the new frontier.

695
01:08:18,980 --> 01:08:21,040
This is very, very exciting.

696
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:29,320
You can also host for people, right?

697
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:31,740
for the pleb out there.

698
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:34,000
Yeah.

699
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:35,400
So on that note,

700
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:37,100
there's, you know,

701
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,120
if you go to our website,

702
01:08:40,580 --> 01:08:43,060
dyson-labs.com,

703
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,040
there is a QR code there.

704
01:08:47,140 --> 01:08:49,220
This is effectively a donation

705
01:08:49,220 --> 01:08:51,100
for the first launch.

706
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:51,840
However,

707
01:08:53,420 --> 01:08:55,660
whatever these individuals

708
01:08:55,660 --> 01:08:57,600
who want to get involved

709
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:58,860
with this project more,

710
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:18,254
I know that there a lot of Bitcoin There a lot of Bitcoiners out there now who are going to if not now sell their bags Like you know when when when things get I personally don think the market is market is peaked yet But I know some people are offloading their positions now

711
01:09:18,434 --> 01:09:21,973
We saw that one 80 billion dollar transaction go by earlier in the year.

712
01:09:23,493 --> 01:09:28,213
I do think that it's people should hold on to their Bitcoin as long as possible.

713
01:09:28,373 --> 01:09:34,034
However, I simultaneously think that this is a very interesting way to grow the ecosystem.

714
01:09:34,934 --> 01:09:37,814
And I would love for people to get involved in this.

715
01:09:38,274 --> 01:09:47,794
And I ultimately what ends up happening with Bitcoin mining in this project, I do want there to be equity involved.

716
01:09:47,794 --> 01:09:56,674
I want I want this to be there to be some way that the people who get involved at this early stage can be involved in whatever this becomes in the long term.

717
01:09:56,674 --> 01:10:10,093
And I think that it's going to take smart engineering, both both aerospace and financial engineering to make sure that that this is something that can last for for for 100 years or millennia.

718
01:10:11,473 --> 01:10:19,954
And I don't really know. I have some inklings of what those what those what that organization will look like.

719
01:10:19,954 --> 01:10:21,894
but at these early stages

720
01:10:21,894 --> 01:10:24,233
if people want to get involved

721
01:10:24,233 --> 01:10:26,254
I would recommend that they reach out to our team

722
01:10:26,254 --> 01:10:27,233
personally for now

723
01:10:27,233 --> 01:10:30,814
while we build up those

724
01:10:30,814 --> 01:10:33,634
rails

725
01:10:33,634 --> 01:10:35,593
Have you had any investment?

726
01:10:35,794 --> 01:10:37,954
This is your thing now, right? It's not like you're

727
01:10:37,954 --> 01:10:39,954
mining fiat during the day and this is your

728
01:10:39,954 --> 01:10:41,934
side hobby. This is

729
01:10:41,934 --> 01:10:43,894
you 24-7

730
01:10:43,894 --> 01:10:45,654
mind, focus, laser

731
01:10:45,654 --> 01:10:47,834
okay, cool. Have you

732
01:10:47,834 --> 01:10:49,454
already had investors?

733
01:10:49,454 --> 01:10:53,373
How are you funding all of this? Because this stuff is not cheap.

734
01:10:54,434 --> 01:10:57,554
This is personally financed at this point.

735
01:10:59,213 --> 01:11:02,414
I am very hopeful that we will.

736
01:11:03,634 --> 01:11:11,134
There is a thing called the Small Business Innovation Research that is used for developing technology.

737
01:11:11,314 --> 01:11:15,634
This is a grant that the U.S. government puts out through different agencies.

738
01:11:16,054 --> 01:11:18,054
One of the agencies that does this is NASA.

739
01:11:18,054 --> 01:11:36,334
I applied for an SBIR phase one grant in the beginning of 2025. I didn't get it. But now I have those connections inside NASA that I think are going to propel us into 2026, having a very, very good shot at succeeding.

740
01:11:36,334 --> 01:11:39,294
but at this point this is personally funded

741
01:11:39,294 --> 01:11:43,074
I am

742
01:11:43,074 --> 01:11:45,113
looking forward to the day that other people decide

743
01:11:45,113 --> 01:11:46,873
that they would like to change that

744
01:11:46,873 --> 01:11:49,174
but and I've gotten

745
01:11:49,174 --> 01:11:51,014
some interest in it some initial interest

746
01:11:51,014 --> 01:11:53,174
but it just hasn't been the right

747
01:11:53,174 --> 01:11:53,953
fit so far

748
01:11:53,953 --> 01:11:56,514
so I

749
01:11:56,514 --> 01:11:58,914
but this

750
01:11:58,914 --> 01:11:59,993
is something that

751
01:11:59,993 --> 01:12:01,993
it's coming

752
01:12:01,993 --> 01:12:04,493
the AI inference community

753
01:12:04,493 --> 01:12:11,574
if you know maybe the bitcoin community is not that familiar with with what's going on in the

754
01:12:11,574 --> 01:12:16,334
space community in general but there's there's a company called star cloud star cloud's actually

755
01:12:16,334 --> 01:12:23,554
building out i believe that they're targeting ai training to start but it's essentially the

756
01:12:23,554 --> 01:12:29,274
same argument that i'm making that there's more energy in space and therefore we should put ai in

757
01:12:29,274 --> 01:12:35,953
space. I think it's actually much more practical and simple to get started with Bitcoin mining as

758
01:12:35,953 --> 01:12:44,473
a wedge business strategy, as a first step. But getting involved in those companies,

759
01:12:44,853 --> 01:12:52,373
there's no easy way for an individual to do that. For this, if you reach out,

760
01:12:52,373 --> 01:12:59,134
we can get something arranged. It's not like you've actively gone out looking yet,

761
01:12:59,274 --> 01:13:04,794
for investment. Have you done any other podcasts if people want to listen to more stuff?

762
01:13:06,873 --> 01:13:14,233
So the I spoke with NASA in well, I had to be very careful with the wording here because I

763
01:13:14,233 --> 01:13:21,274
don't want anybody to get in trouble. I spoke with a program manager at NASA who happens to run

764
01:13:21,834 --> 01:13:27,754
a space blockchain club. I did a podcast with him where I kind of ran through some of the initial

765
01:13:29,274 --> 01:13:37,054
some of the beginnings of the idea and everything. I have been pursuing venture capital. I have some

766
01:13:37,054 --> 01:13:48,394
preliminary interest from one accelerator, but I'm still trying to shore up exactly what the

767
01:13:48,394 --> 01:13:57,134
details of that may look like. But generally speaking, venture capital can be kind of a dirty

768
01:13:57,134 --> 01:14:03,674
business. I think working with individuals, working with Bitcoin, if I could work with

769
01:14:03,674 --> 01:14:10,294
Bitcoiners like that, because the accelerators that I'm talking to, they're not under the Bitcoin

770
01:14:10,294 --> 01:14:19,414
flag. I think that if there's some way to keep this, obviously this project should expand out

771
01:14:19,414 --> 01:14:26,054
into the space industry at large. But if there's a way to keep things a little bit more insular

772
01:14:26,054 --> 01:14:29,373
at this stage, I think that that also makes sense.

773
01:14:30,373 --> 01:14:31,074
All right.

774
01:14:31,154 --> 01:14:32,754
Well, if there's any way I can help,

775
01:14:33,213 --> 01:14:34,713
my network is your network.

776
01:14:35,634 --> 01:14:38,814
If there's anyone you can think of that might,

777
01:14:39,014 --> 01:14:41,254
I mean, again, this is such a niche thing

778
01:14:41,254 --> 01:14:43,794
that, yeah, you might struggle finding

779
01:14:43,794 --> 01:14:45,094
and reaching those people,

780
01:14:45,233 --> 01:14:48,014
but I'll do whatever I can to help you out.

781
01:14:48,054 --> 01:14:49,794
And hopefully people listening to this podcast

782
01:14:49,794 --> 01:14:51,113
might have found some inspiration.

783
01:14:52,334 --> 01:14:53,694
Have we covered everything?

784
01:14:53,694 --> 01:15:08,853
Is there anything else that we're kind of missing here that, I mean, building the thing, getting a lift into space, getting deployed, getting the Wi-Fi up, sorting out the exhaust, joining a pool?

785
01:15:09,914 --> 01:15:10,134
Sure.

786
01:15:10,554 --> 01:15:11,834
I think we've done most of it.

787
01:15:12,733 --> 01:15:16,174
Well, I think the only thing that I'd like to say is that people can reach out to me.

788
01:15:16,973 --> 01:15:17,713
Excuse me.

789
01:15:17,794 --> 01:15:23,373
If people reach out from Dyson Dash Labs, we have some information on our team there.

790
01:15:23,694 --> 01:15:32,754
As well, we have a mining calculator that we put together that kind of demonstrates what the economics of this will look like for a satellite in orbit.

791
01:15:33,134 --> 01:15:34,434
Now, it's not very pretty.

792
01:15:35,654 --> 01:15:37,014
You know, I'm a lot of things.

793
01:15:37,113 --> 01:15:41,654
I'm not a UI designer, so it's functional, but it's not very gorgeous.

794
01:15:43,274 --> 01:15:47,154
But that will give people an insight to kind of how these systems may work.

795
01:15:47,154 --> 01:15:54,434
um and then generally like if you want to get involved whether it's technically or or financially

796
01:15:54,434 --> 01:16:00,213
like i highly encourage people to reach out at dyson dash labs and you know um i'm looking forward

797
01:16:00,213 --> 01:16:07,014
to making this a reality and what kind of people would you be looking for if you

798
01:16:07,014 --> 01:16:14,493
other expertise you need anybody right now well i mean well obviously if there's thermal specialists

799
01:16:14,493 --> 01:16:16,174
people who

800
01:16:16,174 --> 01:16:18,873
worked with thermals

801
01:16:18,873 --> 01:16:20,774
inside of electronics before that matters

802
01:16:20,774 --> 01:16:22,634
a lot electronics

803
01:16:22,634 --> 01:16:23,353
designers

804
01:16:23,353 --> 01:16:26,414
there's

805
01:16:26,414 --> 01:16:28,694
mission managers

806
01:16:28,694 --> 01:16:30,894
things like that that would be very helpful

807
01:16:30,894 --> 01:16:33,174
but honestly the curious

808
01:16:33,174 --> 01:16:34,794
people who are curious

809
01:16:34,794 --> 01:16:37,014
that makes the biggest

810
01:16:37,014 --> 01:16:38,514
difference in

811
01:16:38,514 --> 01:16:40,594
somebody's performance in my opinion

812
01:16:40,594 --> 01:16:42,434
so

813
01:16:42,434 --> 01:16:43,613
and I just

814
01:16:43,613 --> 01:16:47,514
probably as a personal problem, I don't really shut up about this.

815
01:16:47,713 --> 01:16:50,514
I just love talking to people. If people want to reach out.

816
01:16:51,834 --> 01:16:55,713
Daniel, I want to say thank you so much for having me on and giving me

817
01:16:55,713 --> 01:16:57,973
a chance to talk about this because

818
01:16:57,973 --> 01:17:03,094
I'm building things. I think that the world

819
01:17:03,094 --> 01:17:07,514
will eventually care. I know that

820
01:17:07,514 --> 01:17:11,674
Bitcoiners already care. I want this

821
01:17:11,674 --> 01:17:17,034
to be a community project. Will we see any of your stuff at a conference or anything anytime soon?

822
01:17:17,113 --> 01:17:21,594
Have you got anything lined up? Because that's where the rubber meets the road, right? When you're

823
01:17:21,594 --> 01:17:26,473
stood there at a conference, walking around with like a CubeSat with the BitTax inside, like,

824
01:17:26,473 --> 01:17:33,154
yeah, guys, this is real. Yeah. So I actually just left. NASA had a conference here in Cape

825
01:17:33,154 --> 01:17:41,233
Canaveral, Florida, just yesterday called the LIFT conference, the leveraging infrastructure for

826
01:17:41,233 --> 01:17:47,193
future technology. So I was president there. I got a lot of good feedback while I was there.

827
01:17:47,854 --> 01:17:53,314
I think the next conference that we have on the agenda is going to be in Cannes, France.

828
01:17:53,854 --> 01:18:00,754
This is actually the Space Energy Insights Conference. So this is all about data in space.

829
01:18:01,274 --> 01:18:07,834
And I've been slated for a 15 minute talk about Bitcoin mining in space and the economics involved

830
01:18:07,834 --> 01:18:14,634
with that um so so if you're in con france um otherwise i think you'll be able to catch the

831
01:18:14,634 --> 01:18:20,154
materials afterwards that's amazing so you're going to all of the that side of the industry

832
01:18:20,154 --> 01:18:27,534
conferences have you hit any bitcoin conferences yet and shown anything on stage there no my um

833
01:18:27,534 --> 01:18:34,814
so i i've spoken with uh mostly when i i mean i i'm a flag like really like this is something that

834
01:18:34,814 --> 01:18:39,993
Now, granted, I have had this company for two years, but I just quit my W2 job last month.

835
01:18:41,334 --> 01:18:44,634
So in the meantime, I've been building this on my nights and weekends.

836
01:18:46,254 --> 01:18:58,594
I've gone to the Bitcoin conference and I missed it this year, but 2022 to 2024 is a pleb just going around and talking to people at Boots.

837
01:18:58,594 --> 01:19:06,674
you know, especially in, at Nashville in 2024, like being able to go around and talk to,

838
01:19:06,894 --> 01:19:12,334
because then this idea was very solidified, it's solidified as it, as it, as it had been at those

839
01:19:12,334 --> 01:19:19,453
conferences. So talking to people about what this looked like, I believe if the CTO of Iron Energy,

840
01:19:19,814 --> 01:19:27,834
he's actually an astrophysicist. So, so we kind of connected on, you know, it was a really good

841
01:19:27,834 --> 01:19:34,713
conversation. So I know that there's interest in this. And then people can, you know, they get it.

842
01:19:36,534 --> 01:19:42,693
But the, I haven't formally talked about this. And I would love to put together a presentation

843
01:19:42,693 --> 01:19:48,154
to, you know, get Bitcoiners excited about it. Yeah, we need you at a Bitcoin conference,

844
01:19:48,154 --> 01:19:52,394
like a mining conference, for sure. There's mining disrupt, obviously, in the States,

845
01:19:52,394 --> 01:20:00,574
We need a bigger mining conference here, actually, in Europe and the UK, for sure.

846
01:20:01,154 --> 01:20:01,514
All right.

847
01:20:01,574 --> 01:20:01,933
Okay.

848
01:20:02,933 --> 01:20:06,034
But last question then, why did you choose the name?

849
01:20:06,233 --> 01:20:07,854
How did you come to the name of the company?

850
01:20:09,794 --> 01:20:30,006
So Dyson Laboratories I mean you know I hate to say that it came to me like in a dream but it came to me during intense meditation um i went through a period where i

851
01:20:30,006 --> 01:20:38,946
left i i had a a disagreement with somebody at blue origin that fundamentally made me start to

852
01:20:38,946 --> 01:20:49,867
question how good I was as an engineer. And I carried a lot of anger about the way that things

853
01:20:49,867 --> 01:20:56,587
played out. Ultimately, things played out perfectly. Everything worked the way that it should.

854
01:20:56,587 --> 01:21:08,066
But at the time, I was maybe insecure about my ability as an engineer is an appropriate thing to

855
01:21:08,066 --> 01:21:18,627
say. And when Michael Saylor said that solving the double spend problem is effectively the same

856
01:21:18,627 --> 01:21:26,566
thing as solving the conservation of energy, it made me go to, well, where is the most energy?

857
01:21:26,566 --> 01:21:32,387
Well, and then I technically started breaking it down, figuring out how much fissile energy there

858
01:21:32,387 --> 01:21:39,887
is versus what's available from the sun. And with Starship coming on board, it made me just

859
01:21:39,887 --> 01:21:48,167
kind of have a connection during meditation that we are on the cusp of having a Dyson sphere.

860
01:21:49,026 --> 01:21:54,206
And I truly believe that Bitcoin is going to be the technology that enables that.

861
01:21:54,206 --> 01:22:03,966
um so maybe it's grandiose um i i don't know um if nothing else i think the name gets people excited

862
01:22:03,966 --> 01:22:11,167
okay dyson sphere do you just want to explain exactly what that is because i had to quickly

863
01:22:11,167 --> 01:22:21,466
google it sure so so freeman dyson um was a uh he was a physicist um he was kind of a polymath

864
01:22:21,466 --> 01:22:37,266
He did a bunch of things. But one of the things that he conceptualized is that the ability, one of the ways that we'd be able to identify alien civilizations is by studying their starlight.

865
01:22:37,966 --> 01:22:44,946
And potentially these alien civilizations would harness all of the power generated by the sun.

866
01:22:44,946 --> 01:22:51,607
We know that the power drops off as you move away from the sun.

867
01:22:51,746 --> 01:23:02,167
So there would be some sort of object in front moving around stars that would be used to capture the starlight energy.

868
01:23:03,147 --> 01:23:06,867
And effectively, that could be a way that we would search for alien civilizations.

869
01:23:06,867 --> 01:23:15,907
and inherently this the same type of technology when you start talking about capturing solar energy

870
01:23:15,907 --> 01:23:23,587
yes it's going to start by orbiting the earth but you know seven minutes for for daylight to

871
01:23:23,587 --> 01:23:29,687
to reach the earth you know seven minutes is with the 10 within the 10 minute block time so

872
01:23:29,687 --> 01:23:36,347
you know that that that there there's some interesting insights to be gained from that

873
01:23:36,347 --> 01:23:43,127
mate that's awesome okay right wrap it up if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody

874
01:23:43,127 --> 01:23:44,986
who would you give it to and why

875
01:23:44,986 --> 01:23:56,206
man i think that if i i'm hoping that this is the orange pill for the aerospace community

876
01:23:56,206 --> 01:24:01,407
there is a lot of conservatism inside the aerospace community when it comes to

877
01:24:01,407 --> 01:24:09,706
moving away from things that have already worked. I want people to be broken free from

878
01:24:09,706 --> 01:24:18,266
this system that they've grown used to and see the truth that is Bitcoin. I think that that time's

879
01:24:18,266 --> 01:24:26,006
coming. Yeah. Well, I'm sure many people listening to this have just had their minds blown. I'm

880
01:24:26,006 --> 01:24:30,867
already thinking of the people that I can forward it to. So I appreciate you coming on. Appreciate

881
01:24:30,867 --> 01:24:33,566
you giving up the time and everything that you're doing for Bitcoin.

882
01:24:33,867 --> 01:24:36,827
And it's going to be exciting watching this one play out.

883
01:24:36,887 --> 01:24:37,726
Please keep me updated.

884
01:24:38,426 --> 01:24:41,407
We connected on Orange Pill app, so you can always get me there.

885
01:24:42,206 --> 01:24:45,266
So many links, any updates, anything you need help with.

886
01:24:45,306 --> 01:24:50,226
Like I said, you know, I'm fully open and just, yeah, blown away.

887
01:24:50,226 --> 01:24:56,306
Like five years of doing this part and you get to have some incredible conversations.

888
01:24:56,306 --> 01:25:00,667
and sometimes like a whole new frontier comes along

889
01:25:00,667 --> 01:25:02,526
and you've just blown it wide open.

890
01:25:02,687 --> 01:25:03,827
So that's amazing.

891
01:25:04,046 --> 01:25:04,446
Thank you.

892
01:25:05,306 --> 01:25:06,946
Daniel, you're making me emotional, man.

893
01:25:07,026 --> 01:25:07,806
Thank you so much.

894
01:25:08,587 --> 01:25:09,226
Thank you.

895
01:25:09,407 --> 01:25:10,066
Have a good afternoon.

896
01:25:10,986 --> 01:25:11,647
Yeah, you too, brother.

897
01:25:11,726 --> 01:25:12,107
Thank you.

898
01:25:14,187 --> 01:25:15,926
Well, there you go, guys.

899
01:25:16,867 --> 01:25:18,006
Otherworldly stuff.

900
01:25:19,566 --> 01:25:22,387
I said in the beginning this was going to be a fun one.

901
01:25:23,687 --> 01:25:24,706
Can you feel it?

902
01:25:24,706 --> 01:25:39,867
It doesn't get much more intense, I guess, than leaning in to what most people are going to view as a completely crazy idea.

903
01:25:39,867 --> 01:25:44,006
but with the passion and the foresight,

904
01:25:44,246 --> 01:25:47,327
the laser eye focus and the knowledge that this is possible.

905
01:25:48,147 --> 01:25:51,266
And with Bitcoin on your side,

906
01:25:51,426 --> 01:25:53,506
you've got Bitcoin stood on your shoulder.

907
01:25:53,806 --> 01:25:55,087
You've got the truth on your side.

908
01:25:56,127 --> 01:25:58,167
The people that this is going to resonate with,

909
01:25:58,506 --> 01:26:00,026
reach out, reach out to Calvin,

910
01:26:00,226 --> 01:26:01,827
go and have another conversation

911
01:26:01,827 --> 01:26:04,266
or your first conversation with him

912
01:26:04,266 --> 01:26:05,607
after listening to this episode.

913
01:26:06,147 --> 01:26:07,827
And just connect.

914
01:26:07,827 --> 01:26:11,107
and let's hope that these guys start showing up at the conferences

915
01:26:11,107 --> 01:26:15,087
and we can start getting our hands on what this might actually look like.

916
01:26:15,226 --> 01:26:17,667
So, you know, get it tangible, get it in front of people.

917
01:26:18,986 --> 01:26:21,107
It's going to really...

918
01:26:22,867 --> 01:26:25,286
It's such an impressive idea.

919
01:26:25,926 --> 01:26:27,806
It's so cool.

920
01:26:28,407 --> 01:26:32,907
Yeah, I'm kind of lost for words just listening back to this one as well.

921
01:26:33,486 --> 01:26:35,827
So, yeah, like I said at the end there.

922
01:26:35,887 --> 01:26:36,446
Thanks, Kelvin.

923
01:26:36,446 --> 01:26:46,066
This is a new frontier and I hope people out there that have the skill set and the knowledge and the abilities or have a network are able to reach you.

924
01:26:46,306 --> 01:26:56,367
Calvin is on Orange Pill App, so you can just go down, find him on Orange Pill App, download the app, find him there, ping him a message, tell him you heard him on this show and you'd love to reach out and learn more.

925
01:26:56,847 --> 01:26:59,907
Otherwise, the website is dyson-labs.

926
01:26:59,907 --> 01:27:06,046
I'll put that in the show notes and you'll be able to reach out via their contact form on the website.

927
01:27:06,446 --> 01:27:22,387
Well, that's it, guys. That's the show. Thank you for listening. You can please download and listen to this one on Fountain App. If you've not listened to this one on Fountain App today, make it your... before year end, let's get over to Fountain App.

928
01:27:22,387 --> 01:27:33,026
Let's get off of Spotify and Apple and all the other podcast platforms that are not made for Bitcoiners because Fountain is made for Bitcoiners by Bitcoiners.

929
01:27:33,167 --> 01:27:34,926
It's the value for value landscape.

930
01:27:35,587 --> 01:27:44,127
You can go and set up your listening over there and be part of the Bitcoin ecosystem.

931
01:27:44,687 --> 01:27:45,867
You can stream sats.

932
01:27:46,167 --> 01:27:48,607
You can receive sats when you're listening to pods.

933
01:27:48,607 --> 01:27:53,526
You can boost messages direct to your favorite podcasters.

934
01:27:54,206 --> 01:27:57,687
There's loads on there now, loads of Bitcoin-only podcasts on the Fountain app.

935
01:27:58,546 --> 01:28:00,446
And yeah, just be part of this ecosystem.

936
01:28:00,706 --> 01:28:05,347
Get away from the walled gardens of the big fiat machine

937
01:28:05,347 --> 01:28:10,246
and help go support Fountain app and the other podcasters out there

938
01:28:10,246 --> 01:28:12,566
that are putting out all of this great content.

939
01:28:13,347 --> 01:28:16,587
You can now subscribe to the Once Bitten podcast over there.

940
01:28:17,087 --> 01:28:18,526
That's five bucks a month.

941
01:28:18,607 --> 01:28:22,426
So that gets you early access and it gets you ad-free.

942
01:28:23,087 --> 01:28:26,246
And the video function is now working too on Fountain.

943
01:28:26,387 --> 01:28:28,526
It is still in beta, so give them a little time.

944
01:28:29,026 --> 01:28:32,046
But if you're on your mobile device and you're listening to the audio,

945
01:28:32,466 --> 01:28:36,347
maybe you're on a train and you just want to switch it to video,

946
01:28:36,446 --> 01:28:39,127
you can now just switch it to video and you're watching the video there.

947
01:28:39,446 --> 01:28:42,127
And you don't need the YouTube or the Spotify.

948
01:28:42,506 --> 01:28:44,847
It's all in the Fountain app.

949
01:28:44,847 --> 01:28:51,486
and like I said five bucks a month gets you early access it takes a day or two for general release

950
01:28:51,486 --> 01:28:56,667
so if you don't like the preamble and you don't like the ad reads you don't like this blah blah

951
01:28:56,667 --> 01:29:03,006
blah at the end none of it's there it's just the conversation and that's what you're paying for if

952
01:29:03,006 --> 01:29:09,986
you do like all that stuff just subscribe and you'll get it all for free if you want to buy

953
01:29:09,986 --> 01:29:13,526
early access that's going to be $2.10

954
01:29:13,526 --> 01:29:16,607
2.1 and you'll be able to

955
01:29:16,607 --> 01:29:18,286
something comes up

956
01:29:18,286 --> 01:29:19,887
I need to listen to that right now

957
01:29:19,887 --> 01:29:20,847
I can't wait the two days

958
01:29:20,847 --> 01:29:23,167
you can just smash buy it with Bitcoin on Fountainhead

959
01:29:23,167 --> 01:29:24,147
by the Lightning Network

960
01:29:24,147 --> 01:29:28,127
so yeah I'm glad to be supporting those guys

961
01:29:28,127 --> 01:29:30,266
I saw Nick and Oscar

962
01:29:30,266 --> 01:29:32,266
at the Bury St. Edmunds conference

963
01:29:32,266 --> 01:29:34,286
I've got to give some conference shout outs

964
01:29:34,286 --> 01:29:35,946
there's one coming up in

965
01:29:35,946 --> 01:29:38,726
what are we October is next

966
01:29:38,726 --> 01:29:40,167
That's the Bitcoin Balkans.

967
01:29:40,506 --> 01:29:42,546
That's going to take place in Sofia.

968
01:29:43,347 --> 01:29:45,466
And it's an incredible city.

969
01:29:45,926 --> 01:29:50,506
And the Bulgarian Bitcoiners are so freaking fun.

970
01:29:50,587 --> 01:29:51,627
They're a great bunch of guys.

971
01:29:51,746 --> 01:29:53,446
They're going to welcome you to their city.

972
01:29:53,667 --> 01:29:55,046
And they're going to put on a great show.

973
01:29:55,627 --> 01:29:56,466
Panels and everything.

974
01:29:56,687 --> 01:29:59,627
There will be English and Bulgarian language.

975
01:29:59,806 --> 01:30:00,946
But they separate them.

976
01:30:01,087 --> 01:30:02,587
Or at least they did last time.

977
01:30:03,087 --> 01:30:04,986
I'm sure they'll be doing the same kind of thing again.

978
01:30:05,147 --> 01:30:06,187
So get over there.

979
01:30:06,187 --> 01:30:08,546
Use the code BIT and get a 10% discount.

980
01:30:08,726 --> 01:30:10,847
Then in November, we've got BitFest.

981
01:30:10,966 --> 01:30:14,466
That's taking place in Manchester in the United Kingdom.

982
01:30:14,946 --> 01:30:16,486
Another conference in the UK.

983
01:30:16,726 --> 01:30:17,347
Look at us go.

984
01:30:18,046 --> 01:30:20,827
So you can get a 10% discount if you use the code BITTON.

985
01:30:20,986 --> 01:30:22,306
They're doing a three-day event.

986
01:30:22,406 --> 01:30:27,187
The first day is going to be Nostashire or Nostashire if you're from England.

987
01:30:27,546 --> 01:30:31,847
And that's going to be obviously all things Nostashire and then two days of all things Bitcoin.

988
01:30:32,167 --> 01:30:33,566
They've got some great speakers lined up.

989
01:30:33,667 --> 01:30:35,506
They're doing a great job putting that one together.

990
01:30:35,887 --> 01:30:36,827
So that's BitFest.

991
01:30:36,827 --> 01:30:38,046
Again, link in the show notes.

992
01:30:38,046 --> 01:30:45,046
that's going to be in Manchester. Also in Tokyo, the back end of November, we have BTC Japan

993
01:30:45,046 --> 01:30:51,827
coming at you right out of Tokyo. So if you're in Asia, if you want to make that leap, get across

994
01:30:51,827 --> 01:30:56,786
over there, go check it out, go see what the guys are up to. They are going to put an incredible

995
01:30:56,786 --> 01:31:05,046
conference. Again, code BITN. It's very simple. B-I-T-T-E-N is going to get you 10% discount on

996
01:31:05,046 --> 01:31:06,207
all your ticket purchases.

997
01:31:07,087 --> 01:31:10,187
And you can already buy tickets for Prague next year

998
01:31:10,187 --> 01:31:11,986
if you want to get to BTC Prague in June.

999
01:31:12,387 --> 01:31:14,906
Again, the code is still running for that one.

1000
01:31:15,387 --> 01:31:19,387
And if you hear of any events that you'd like me to reach out to

1001
01:31:19,387 --> 01:31:23,226
to see if they'd be willing to offer and extend you some discounts,

1002
01:31:23,347 --> 01:31:24,046
just let me know.

1003
01:31:24,466 --> 01:31:27,887
Ping me on OrangePillApp or find me on Twitter or NOSTA.

1004
01:31:28,306 --> 01:31:30,847
And I look forward to you guys reaching out

1005
01:31:30,847 --> 01:31:32,127
and catch you on the next show.

1006
01:31:32,327 --> 01:31:33,327
Thank you so much for listening.