Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.
Time for something slightly different. What would you do if you were ex-military and ex-space
industry after you found Bitcoin? Well you would launch a company that was going to mine Bitcoin
in space wouldn't you? I mean clearly. Well that's what Calvin's done with a couple of other guys
and that's what he's here to talk about bitcoin mining in space in low earth orbit
with miners inside satellites that are going to harness the power and the energy of the sun
this is mining on the final frontier i love it it's so i mean excuse the pun it's so far out there
that it's just such an interesting thought process to to take yourself through and for the geeks out
there who love this kind of stuff uh please get in touch with calvin after you've listened to this
uh dyson-labs.com is the website where you can go and learn some more uh but yeah if i'm look
if nothing else you'll get fired up just at the passion behind this and it's not all pie in the
guy again a weird pun uh but there you go well yeah i enough said i hope you enjoy the episode
let's get into it as soon as we've given some uh some shout outs to the show sponsors uh orange
pill app uh not an official sponsor but i have been part of the orange pill app team since almost
the beginning thank you mateo for inviting me along on this ride of yours as you've built out
the social layer of the Bitcoin ecosystem. If you're not on Orange Pill app, go check it out.
It is a paid app, people. Please understand, you are going to have to pay a monthly fee or a yearly
fee, or you can just smash by a live membership all via the Lightning Network, and you're going
to be connected to 18,000 other Bitcoiners around the world. I use this app almost daily,
certainly when I'm traveling, and certainly because now of the geo zapping function,
you can geo zapp, say you're going on holiday, pick a city, wherever it is you're going next.
You type, you open your orange pill app, you go to your wallet, you type in send,
and then you send to the city, just find the city that you're going to. And it will tell you how
many Bitcoiners are on the app? You're like, 25 Bitcoiners live in XYZ city. You geo-zap them a
message. Hey guys, we are coming, going to be in town five days. Would love to know the best bars,
restaurants, cafes. Where do they accept Bitcoin? Where's the best place for steak? Who would like
to meet for a coffee or a beer? Is there any great tourist secret hidden things we should be looking
at doing and you attach 21 sats to it and you send so you've just sent 21 sats to a complete
stranger they might not even see your message or they might not want to connect or they might not
want to be um they might not be in town at that time they're still going to receive the sats you've
sent value but what you get back is incredible because they will some of them won't but many of
them will get back to you and before you know it you are landing instead of you landing into a
foreign land you're landing into a place where you are just wrapped up in bitcoin club love you
are done you are sorted your trip is you know next level so that's just one utility of the orange
pill app so go download it uh there's a link in the show notes uh just hit that reference link
download it you'll get some sats in your wallet straight away and you can start playing around
with it so that's orange pill up that's that shill uh stack sats relay r-e-l-a-i dot c-h
forward slash bitten download the app this is across europe all the euro plebs can be downloading
and stacking up to a thousand swiss or equivalent per day and they have a white glove service for
high net worth individuals and they can help you get your business onto a bitcoin standard as well
with their private team.
So that's relay, R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash Bitten.
Get stacking today.
Once you have stacked, get yourself a Bitbox hardware wallet.
Do not leave Bitcoin on an exchange.
Do not leave Bitcoin on an app.
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Get it on a cold storage device.
Go do your own research, please.
I urge you to go do your own research.
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Right, let's get into this one. See you guys in space with Calvin England.
All right, Calvin, we are recording and I had to cut you off before we got too deep into the weeds
because this one's going to be so fun. Big shout out to Mateo from Orange Pill App that put you on
my radar. And a little bit of context, I just get a text from him, you have to interview this guy on
the podcast, he wants to mine Bitcoin in space. So I remember actually, and I put you in touch
with JP. I had JP Barrick on the show back in 2020. And I threw a random question at him because
he's in the Bitcoin mining space. And I just asked him the question, would it ever be able to ever be
possible to you know send asics up into satellites and and mine bitcoin from space and
you know like he didn't really have an answer it seems to me as though you do here we are in 2025
september uh so before we get into that um lauren would generally ask you the first question and i
would have told her right we're gonna have this guy come on and he's gonna talk about mining bitcoin
in space and she would have a first question for you so her first question would have been
but what if something goes wrong with them how would you fix them
sure um and generally speaking when you talk about terrestrial miners terrestrial miners have
a very high failure rate so um people inherently you know they say like well these systems are
going to fall apart like in space there's no way that you can get up there and and you know it's
not like you can take them into the shop and take them apart. And it's very expensive to get to
orbit in the first place. But the way that you counter that problem is that you design these
systems from the ground up with high reliability in mind. So there's, if you're familiar with,
and some of the electronics people will probably be familiar with these standards, but IPC standards,
You have consumer-grade electronics on one side that are very cheaply made.
They're not made with high reliability in mind.
This is part of the reason why your washing machine will break as soon as you buy it sometimes.
It's consumer-grade electronics.
Bitcoin miners fall under those same standards typically.
But then you have high-reliability electronics on the opposite side of the scale.
So this is like your aerospace avionics or your medical grade electronics equipment.
This is high reliability. It's made with different standards in mind.
So it's same technology most of the time. It's just you have to be more precise with your engineering work.
And in fact, what this means is you can extend the life of these systems much longer by making them with more strict engineering in mind.
Now, of course, this means a higher amount of engineering work in general on the front end.
But if the if the overall returns end up making it up and in this case, space has a lot of energy.
I'm sure we'll get into the details of this, but because space has so much energy and energy is the main price driver in Bitcoin mining, it actually it.
The preliminary math shows that it becomes worth it.
people right now are probably thinking oh shit like he's not joking like there is an absolute
solid chance that i mean this is your thing right you're gonna you're gonna make this happen like
how how close are we to like realizing this goal so um yeah i mean you know i'm i consider myself
an aerospace professional. I was in the military from 2012 to 2016. I got my mechanical engineering
degree from Purdue University. I graduated in 2021. And since then, I've been working in aerospace.
I've worked for Northrop Grumman. I've worked for Blue Origin. I've worked for Beyond Gravity,
previously Ruag Space. And then I worked for a transdime corporation company called Extant
aerospace. But it's just to say that I've got, I very much take engineering and aerospace
extremely seriously. I just also happen to be a Bitcoiner. I saw what happened during coronavirus
and the money printing situation. I grew up as, you know, throughout the financial crisis.
And I saw I was privy to to, you know, what inflation does to an economy.
My grandpa actually lost his pension because he retired from GM.
And, you know, basically, one way or another, the government took my grandpa's pension away.
And how old are you now?
31.
What? OK. So 2008, you were right around what age?
uh god uh well i was born in 94 so like you know 12 something like that what's the math 14 uh yeah
it's when i was when i was when i was a kid seeing like i i remember it was one thing that
was really i've always been like kind of had a sense for economics like i was a big ron paul
fan when i was in middle school um how did you come across your radar was that just from watching
like being on the news or something Having access to the internet and being a young kid There was a conspiracy YouTube video Oh man what was the name of it God I can remember the name of it but it went over
9-11, the Federal Reserve, and the origins of Christianity. But seeing that Federal Reserve
part of that video got me into, it started making me research more about this. When I was in high
school, I actually like did my thesis on taxes and how taxes affect the economy. Because at the time,
Obama had raised taxes in a way that I was like, I want to understand these systems. And eventually,
after finding Austrian economics, what I realized is that this is all like manmade manipulation.
There is no right answer here. This is just we are living inside of a closed.
A closed system that we have made, and it's very insular in that that economy doesn't really exist.
What does exist is scarcity. And in Bitcoin mining, when you start when you start talking about Bitcoin and Austrian economics, it's like, OK, this is the engineering.
This is the actual way that these systems work. And I think, like, going from that worldview of being trapped inside of, like, the Chicago School of Inkinisian economics, and then finally seeing Austrian economics and realizing, like, oh, man, this is the actual truth of the matter.
That was what really drove my interest in the economics of it all.
But I think your question had to do with, am I going to do this?
I'm at least going to put a miner into space.
This is going to be able to drive.
I do have some commercial interest at this point.
I can't go into all the details
but I can
initially
I also want to say that I want to make
as much of this open source
as I humanly can
unfortunately when you deal with satellite components
you also get into ITAR requirements
so there is
I still need to get this
sorted but I'm absolutely dedicated
to putting all of the
information in the open source community
that I can
um however my business has had to make certain agreements with um with other agreement with
other businesses that include non-disclosure agreements so there are some things that i can't
say at this time um sorry just to go back you said you have commercial interest yeah you said
ipar requirements is that what you said to it itar international uh treaty of on arms regulation
um itar is like um so if i work on jets or satellites if i'm working on propulsion for
instance i can't um i can't disclose certain things to non-us citizens um i have to be or
non-us persons um so like green card holders um are fine um permanent residents um but i just have
to be careful with with what information that i end up uh disclosing to the international
community versus U.S. persons when it comes to ITAR requirements. However, you can sidestep a lot of
ITAR requirements by publishing things in the open source. So we're actually incentivized to put
things in the open source if we want this to be an international project, and we very much do.
So we have an incentive to do this also.
so you you saw your your grandfather lose his his pension you you fall into the austrian
economics rabbit hole you watched that movie maybe it was zeitgeist is that the one you were
yes exactly exactly thank you okay and uh come 2020 you're you're into your career um you've
you've got a job you're probably earning half decent wage you're getting paid for your skill
set and bam, lockdown, COVID. Is that what finally pushed you into the Bitcoin rabbit hole?
Did you have the time then? What did life look like for you right at that point?
Sure. So around 2017, while I was at Purdue University, there was a brilliant engineer
that I knew who was there.
He was actually, I'm pretty sure,
self-described as a socialist.
And ironically, though, he loved Bitcoin.
He was an engineer,
and he saw the beauty of the mathematics
inside the system.
And he explained to me that this is the future.
And I looked into it, and I said,
man, it is beautiful, but what a pipe dream. Unfortunately, everybody gets in on Bitcoin at
the price they deserve. I didn't fully decide to research it until the lockdown during 2020.
I knew that this massive money printing event had happened. I remembered what happened in 2008 to
my family and thought like, oh, shit, I need to take some sort of action.
So I started, I dove down the rabbit hole of portfolio theory.
I'm not sure if you're like, there's this, there's this idea called HFEA, Hedge Fundies
Excellent Adventure.
So this is like a very, if you ever end up bored and you want to learn about portfolio
theory. This is a very interesting way to manage risk and maximize returns based on the way that
the economy was going from 2000 to basically 2020. It's a very interesting portfolio theory.
But simultaneously, I saw what happened with GameStop and the way that the market got manipulated
by some of the clearing.
It seemed like some of the clearinghouses
were even in on some of the market manipulation
at the time.
And this, so I was like, man,
we need a system outside of this.
And that's Bitcoin.
What books did you turn to at that point?
When you suddenly realized, holy shit,
this is Bitcoin.
I missed it.
I got to get up to speed.
Where's the best way for me to download that?
You know, Neo style in the matrix,
plug yourself in um you know i i i don't rely on books near as much as i rely on podcasters um
you know my my just the way that i like to learn i love learning talking to people
um i would say that like robert breedlove and michael saylor are have been fundamentally um
instructive, I guess might be a word, um, into the, what, the way that I arrange my philosophy
in this space. Um, I think that Jason Lowry also has, um, in what, uh, what he's published in
software. Um, I think that there's a lot of thinking that, that, that makes sense there too.
Um, but generally speaking, you know, I've, I've tried to get the synopsis of, of what a lot of
these Austrian economists think as well because I think that the people you know you have to respect
your heritage and your history with regards to um where this movement really came from
um but definitely the podcast community has has influenced a lot of the way that that I've
approached this from a philosophical angle so like what what generally happens is then you you've just
got to get your hands on some right so I'm sure you were thinking how the hell do I start stacking
and so how did that how did that then turn into this is what i can do because like you obviously
we all we all get to that point where it's like right okay enough learning uh i'm stacking as
hard as i can might have freed up a little bit of time what can i do now with my time to
you know use the cliche give back or you know lean into this right um so it it this
on one side um just from a personal standpoint it's like okay what can i do in the immediate
future while i'm already earning this mechanical engineering degree um i can go work in the uh
aerospace and defense community um and while i was at northrop rum and you know the government also
around the COVID lockdowns, a lot of things happened that I did not agree with.
It was a really painful time for me to see the country that I love.
I mean, so when I joined the military, I went into the Marine Corps.
I was an infantryman, and I went to Afghanistan in 2014.
You know, I fought for the country.
And 2020 was really, really painful. It made me want, it made me feel very disgusted with the idea of continuing to work in the military sector.
It made me want to, I didn't feel like this, we were in a direction that felt good with regards to, I don't feel comfortable making weapons.
Like, I just don't.
And simultaneously, I took a look around and I saw like, well, where is the hope?
Where's the hopefulness in the aerospace community right now?
Well, it's at SpaceX.
It's at Blue Origin.
It's in the commercial space industry.
And, um, obviously it's not exactly, uh, it non lucrative. I mean, you know, working inside of the space industry is still, obviously it's very fulfilling. You can get paid well. Um, so, so it seemed kind of like a no brainer, but then I looked at what Michael Saylor was building with, with micro strategy.
And there's a certain amount of leverage that you can get by using business that is just not available to at the same scale as an individual.
So now in Bitcoin mining is the thing that makes Bitcoin different, in my opinion, at least.
Obviously, there's the absolute scarcity, but Bitcoin mining and its connection to energy is so much more physical than any other type of cryptocurrency.
now so so being able to to find what the most massive way to leverage bitcoin mining
and energy production that that becomes uh if you want to accumulate bitcoin between now
and the end of time you have to figure out where the best source of the energy is going to be There a movement inside the space industry now to start bringing more computation into orbit
There's several startups who are exploring this, mostly in the context of AI.
But nobody's doing it for Bitcoin mining yet.
It's been on people's radar.
People are aware of it.
But for one reason or another, nobody's looked at Bitcoin mining.
I don't know if I'm necessarily qualified to be the person to do this, but I am obviously super interested.
If not me, I would love to go work for the guy who's going to do this.
And so far, I've just been putting together the team to say, like, OK, how can how can I make this reality?
um and so i i've i've really been at a very fortunate time and and and it's been very
serendipitous to meet the the people that i've met along the way it's such a great topic and i um
i will make uh an effort to remember to to forward this episode to my wife's partner for the women in
bitcoin uk team uh because she has a phd in uh space law i can't believe there's even such a thing
yeah yeah yeah he would she would certainly be able to help you out in some capacity i'm sure
uh so like this that that's the beauty of the bitcoin network right we just sit down for 20
minutes and already i can think of someone that out there that is going to be lit up by what you're
trying to do and has the skill set to be able to lean in and possibly help uh and it could just be
help with you know reading a document or who knows but uh this is how we build uh all right so
yeah man where to go with all this so yes like the military industrial complex that is a that's
because when you do find sound money and you do realize that wow okay it this last century has
been a century of a war machine under a fiat standard and the ability to the country's
superpowers just to be able to print as much money as they possibly can, trade in US dollars,
force people to buy petrol, petroleum in US dollars, force other countries to buy arms and
weapons and tanks and airplanes and everything else in US dollars. When you come to that
realization, you're like, holy crap. And I can't imagine. Well, yeah, like you said, very uncomfortable
realization, especially when you're sitting there inside the belly of the beast. There were dark
days for myself when I learned about Bitcoin. So I spent 18 years in foreign exchange markets.
I couldn't believe what I was a part of that just that extraction machine and being, you know,
in touch with all of the world's banks of, you know, the JP Morgan's Goldman Sachs and how they're
all connected to the Federal Reserve and the Bank of International Settlements and the IMF and
forcing countries into hyperinflate their currencies and whatever else.
And every time the Bank of Japan would intervene,
that would mean more business for us because volatility would spike.
God, shit.
So I discovered Bitcoin and started unraveling my own demons.
It was pretty bad.
And obviously, you just want to reach as many people as you can
and help spread the word.
So, yeah, I feel for you that that must have been pretty bad
coming to that realization sitting there probably at your desk working for you know maybe a military
contract or something yeah you're nodding yeah yeah i at the time when i first uh
when when covid first happened during 2020 um i was at northrop brumman um it was my second
internship there and already the culture had changed dramatically because I interned there
in 2019 as well. And it had a completely different flavor when I came back the second time in my,
um, uh, at the, at the time, my, uh, uh, I, I don't know if, um, I was actually married or not
yet, but my, my, uh, I ended up marrying, uh, my, my college girlfriend at the time. Um,
because she was here on a great, uh, she was here on a student visa and it became, uh, she had lost
her job because everything had closed down. She had already graduated. She was, uh, um, uh,
master's student who had stayed in the, in the local area and her, uh, she, once she lost her
job. She was going to have to go back home. And this is my girlfriend. So it was like, well,
you know, if I have to marry her to keep her in the States, then, you know, obviously that's the
thing that I'm going to do. Unfortunately, I think that we probably got married a little bit too soon
because that, you know, we ended up departing, parting ways later on. But the having to be away
from her during the lockdown at this internship while America was losing its mind. People were
were rioting. Um, I remember that there was, um, the, the police. So we were in the town of West
Lafayette and over the river was Lafayette. And, uh, somewhere in the town during, during the,
the summer of, uh, all this, there was a big riot that took place. And, you know, I just remember
thinking like, I can't be home right now. Um, and this is awful. And it felt very much
contrived. This didn't feel like something that had to happen. It was, it was mostly a, um,
something that the government had put on. And that, that made me very, very uncomfortable.
Um, especially cause I was working for a company that is very much intertwined with, um, you know,
the military industrial complex in Northrop Brumman is, is one of the, I do want to say
there's a lot of great engineers there there's a lot of great individuals who work at Northrop
Roman I don't and I'm still in contact with those people today but the just the the gravity of the
entire situation did not feel very good um and it made me personally want a change it made me want
to work in space as much as I can um because I do feel like there's a certain amount of hopefulness
hopefulness that is is inside the space industry that just it's not it's not the same thing when
you're working on you know um drones or or you know fighters or or anything like that is when
you're working on a rocket ship and you know thinking about what getting to the moon is going
to be like or getting to mars so what was it about that was it the lockdowns initially or was it
everything just built up upon itself and then vaccines coming in and being
mandated in certain areas and all that kind of stuff. Because like, you know,
you said you've been out, you've been on active duty. I mean,
you've seen real war, real hardship.
Like the fact that we were all just locked down for like the most ridiculous
reasons.
Well, there's a certain amount of, um, what do you call that?
cognitive dissonance, I'm sure that I experienced, like on one hand, I had all these libertarian
views. Um, and simultaneously I joined the Marine Corps. Um, you know, I, I did want to go fight
in Afghanistan, but like, because I knew that other people were going to go in my place if I,
if, if I weren't to go. Um, but simultaneously, like while I was there, like the majority of the,
Like, I don't necessarily, obviously the Taliban have some horrible cultural traditions that they've put in place.
But ultimately, like, I don't have anything against any of these individual people, like, or like farmers or anything like that.
So, like, what, I think that there was a certain amount of cognitive dissonance because I've been part of the government systems for as long as I had.
um simultaneously though when you start seeing the money printing happening and you see the way
that asset prices um explode exponentially it makes you you want to become a a shareholder
of something so where is your value that you generate best placed well it's best placed in
thing that absolutely cannot be inflated. And as you know, as the Bitcoin community knows,
that's Bitcoin. And I think that being able to get involved in the education of that,
it's a very, very deep technical field. There's a lot to be learned. So I think that part of my
engineering brain was drawn to that. But generally, I do think that this is going to be the financial
rails of the 21st century. And I think it's very important that if I can be involved in the stand
up of those financial rails in some way, I absolutely want to be.
Did you know, because I did not know, I think someone pointed out to me about six to nine
months ago that the the world military olympic games took place in october of 2019 in wuhan
oh i didn't know that i don't i've never even it's unbelievable so when when like yeah everybody
put your tinfoil hat on but that's anybody can go and wikipedia that right now it's there and for
at all to see where thousands of military personnel were all in wuhan a month before
the virus leaked and you know from every part of the globe right you know all militaries would
have been uh present and representing their country and uh in their sports and whatever else
So all these young athletes, military, and you just have to wonder how easy would it have been to infect that amount of people and then send them all off back to their homes.
Anyway, look, like conspiracy theories aside, I just wanted to bring that up.
You can go and do your own digging into that one.
Just the timeline is crazy.
uh so how then how on earth do you get how many asics are you looking to get in a satellite i
mean what's the whole setup here i like i'm gonna have to ask the dumbest questions are we sending
are we sending something up the size of a shoebox or the size of a shipping container like you know
what does this whole thing look like sure so um there is i i i have to admit that there the
the route in which this very specific package
that we're going to be sending up is still in flux.
This is still a work in progress.
But there is, generally speaking,
it's safe to say that we're going to start small.
So this is more than likely going to be part of a CubeSat mission first Now additionally there several there two different ways that you can send up a CubeSat You can either do you can either make your own
satellite and send that up, or you can do something called Rideshare. So Rideshare would be that we
make a certain component that goes onto a CubeSat, and we send that component up as part of a larger
mission. And that's actually going to be cheaper for us to do. So that's probably going to be the
route that we'll be taking. Now, with regards to the how many ASICs, we want to be able to have
as much data as possible. So we're hoping to be able to have three ASICs on our initial trip.
One ASIC can pull anywhere from like 8 to 12 watts typically.
So this puts us around 30 watts of power probably once you count all the peripheries, like the controllers that it takes to run the ASICs and other things.
That will probably put us around 35 watts.
So 35 watts is a lot of power with regards to a CubeSat also.
So with that, you have to design the system in a way that makes a lot of sense for this initial mission.
And you want it to last as long as possible so we can get data for as long as possible.
Some CubeSat missions will only take place for a month.
Some go on for years.
um we definitely would like to be part of a mission that's that's closer to the year time scale
um can i just ask sorry sorry i'm gonna interrupt with dumb questions no no go ahead um so if it
lasts for a month what happens to the thing after a month what it doesn't just land itself i'm
assuming right so there are um some of these uh some instruments are you know some cubesats just
their mission life is purposefully made so short because they don't, you do have to deorbit your
satellite per, I believe it's the FAA regulations, within 15 years of launching, I believe. So
if you have a mission where you can send it up and run through your checklist and your, you know,
your mission is complete after,
and it only takes you a month to complete every aspect of your mission,
then there's no reason to keep the satellite up there.
You're just taking up space.
So, so that's one reason why people will deorbit.
But talking about the harshness of space, there's, there's,
so what we just talked about with regards to collision events,
you want to make sure that you can minimize collision events.
because obviously things are traveling at thousands of miles per hour while they're in orbit.
So even if you have something the size of a grain of rice, if it impacts your satellite,
that's going to be a, you know, you're going to notice.
But the largest difference between terrestrial mining and what's going to take place in orbit
is going to be the radiation aspect.
So I do want to say that I strongly believe that this is going to be something that we can handle.
But just like everything else, it takes careful engineering.
When you leave Earth's, when you leave the closeness of Earth, depending on where you're at, you lose the protection of the magnetosphere.
And what that means is that you're no longer protected by the magnetic poles and their inherent protection from radiation.
So there is more ionizing radiation in orbit than there is on Earth.
But that doesn't mean that there can't be more compute in orbit.
It just has to be designed around.
So the CubeSat gets sent up, CubeSatellite.
uh yeah what kind of mining machines are you putting in there i've just googled an image
they're pretty small these things so how do you have you got anything sure so so i've actually got
something that i wanted to uh you know kind of show off now this is uh this is just like a what
would you say like a processing prototype this is by no means functional um this is not uh something
that we would be sending to space but this is just kind of to show and demonstrate the form factors
that we're talking about here.
So this is a BitX from the BitX community.
You know, they're part of the Open Source Miners United,
which I don't know if your listeners are,
how connected they are with that ecosystem,
but I highly encourage people to get involved
with the Open Source Miners United.
It's very fulfilling, at least for me,
to learn about the real physical hardware of these systems.
So this is kind of what we're imagining for our first system and what it's going to look like.
This is a bid axe.
This one pulls probably about 15 watts.
I've removed the fan system from this one and then laminated it onto a solar cell.
And there's a thermal interface material in between these.
It's both bonding the two components together.
And it's also made to transfer heat from these two surfaces.
Now, the final product is going to have another panel on this side, probably made out of aluminum,
that will have that same thermal interface material that will have a very high thermal conductivity.
And that will be our radiator panel.
So that's going to be what's radiating heat away.
Now, this single solar cell, this pulls five volts at 400 milliamps.
So you would actually need 10 of these in parallel to be able to power this one bit axe.
But that just gives people kind of a scale of what we're working with here.
So 10 of these in parallel, that's about what you're talking about inside typical CubeSat form factors.
so once once you've got the cube set up there you got to hitch a ride first of all
but yeah how do you get the thing up there and how much does that cost
sure so um if you go on to spacex's website and you see like what the cost would be for you to put
a uh you know anything up there typically the the number that you're going to see is like 300 000
um three hundred thousand dollars for for a launch so um typically you know but then you see that the
the the launch prices the lowest launch price has been around fifteen hundred dollars per kilogram
so um you know that that doesn't exactly make sense to people well the the reason why is that
there's there's subcontractors who who um have things called cubesat deployers that act as a
middleman. So those CubeSat deployers, companies like DeOrbit, XO Launch, for example, those guys,
they make these specifically made mechanisms that attach to SpaceX's satellite. They're the
ones who deploy out the CubeSats for, and that's where you start getting into the cheaper launches.
Now, even then, you can make this a cheaper process by being just a component on somebody else's CubeSat.
So if somebody else is already sending up a CubeSat and you have like a solar panel that just happens to mine Bitcoin, too, if you want to turn it on and mine Bitcoin, you know, then you start working through the engineering, through the mission integration to say like, OK, here's going to be the periods where our device will be active.
We're not going to interfere with your primary mission.
It is very carefully orchestrated, and there's a lot of work to be done on this integration topic still.
But being as non-intrusive allows you to hitch a ride on people's satellites that they're already putting up.
That would make a lot of sense.
So the thing gets up there.
You hitch the ride.
have you thought about like i mean you're probably not close to this but crowdsourcing a launch or
raising funds through geyser or something like that because i'm sure a bunch of people would be
very interested just like have their imaginations lit up here and what a way to decentralize mining
uh i'll have more questions around that uh in a minute but uh yeah your thoughts on um
like get investment from individuals rather than you know relying on joint ventures or anything
like that right and this is this is something that i'm i i i want to find the right fit for this to
i think that this is going to be the dominant form of bitcoin mining um i i truly believe that
um there's and the reason why is that that's a huge call like so like the amount of like we've
got what at the moment you know how it yeah it's a thousand eggs a hash right is that what we've uh
something that's a lot of power terrestrial based power moving to space in in europe right
so so so on that the um if you've ever seen the uh the diagrams that show like how much solar power
it takes to be able to run a country it's always like a couple counties work yes yeah i have yeah
so so so on that note when you when you start talking about the power availability in orbit
there are certain orbital trajectories that allow you to have um constant exposure to the sun
so what that means is is that um on earth you have about a thousand watts per square meter
um that's how much power hits the the earth at any given time with regards to solar power
in space because there's no atmospheric attenuation of that solar power it's actually
closer to 13 1340 watts per square meter so already right there you have a 34 percent increase
now there's no day night cycle so you can always experience high noon so these these types of
orbits are called dawn-dusk orbits because they they ride a thing called the terminator line
so it always kind of appears like if you look at the earth you can it always appears like it's dawn
um in these types of orbits but what this means is you have 24 uh 7 exposure to 1340 watts
so you end up with around four times as much power um is even the best locations that you could
for solar terrestrially.
So in Arizona, which is the best place to put a miner,
For solar power in America, you'll get around eight kilowatts of energy per day.
But in space, it's actually closer to 32 kilowatts per day, which is quite, pardon me, which is quite significant.
And additionally, that power, it's a monomodal distribution.
So like the terrestrially, that power is it reaches its peak around noon.
That's when you get your your thousand watts per square meter.
Other than that, you're still, you know, because the Earth has to your sunlight is going through so much of the atmosphere that power is actually less so.
But in orbit, it's very constantly delivered.
1340 watts and of course this fluctuates depending on how far away the earth is from the sun
but it's it's 1340 1360 watts per square meter is around what you can constantly expect to be
delivered while in low earth orbit so once it's up there and it's in low earth orbit and it's been
released from the dock of the shuttle or whatever else it gets out there does it float out some
some solar panels is that the way that and then your machines are just powered directly from that
that's yeah so so typically um inside of a solar system like inside of a um a solar panel system
you'll have a thing called an mppt controller this is a maximum powerpoint tracking controller
So what this does is it has little resistors that sense the current generated by the solar panels, the current required by the primary mission of the satellite.
So this is going to be things like your communication systems, your thrusters, whatever you have going on inside your satellite that will be used in transients.
so you have your power generation you have your primary mission and then you have your battery
so your battery is um you want that to be uh that will be charged for when you enter uh if you're
not in a dawn dusk orbit there will be periods where you um you'll you'll be eclipsed by the
earth so during that eclipse period you won't have any power generation you have to rely on
that battery during that time. However, regardless of your type of orbit, there are going to be
periods where your primary emission will not be active and your battery will be full.
This is very similar to what happens to terrestrial grids when there's no demand.
So what do people do when there's no demand? Well, they Bitcoin mine. So effectively,
what I'm hoping that this is going to take place is this is going to be a paradigm shift
within the space industry. This will be a way for satellites to monetize their downtime.
And this is a very, very powerful concept. And the implications of that right now,
there's only about 100 megawatts of power in orbit. The majority of that is Starlink.
But by the 2030s, some projections say that there's going to be 250 megawatts.
Some say there's going to be 850 megawatts.
So, and this is a trend that won't be reversing.
We're going to put more power in space.
How do we use that effectively?
And how do we drive down those power costs?
I think Bitcoin mining is a big part of that.
So what kind of satellites would be up there at the moment, you know, wasting that dead time?
Have you got any, like, solid examples where Bitcoin mining in space fixes this?
Yeah, I mean, so one of the, somebody I've been in contact with is this guy named Brian Ignaut.
Brian Ignaut is the, he was, I guess you would call him the lead power engineer for Starlink.
I've been in talks with him about what this looks like.
And even Starlink has these periods of downtime.
You can imagine if you're designing a satellite, you're going to have to,
So the majority of power will go to communication systems with regards to Starlink.
They have a phased array antenna that's pointing down towards Earth.
So they're seeing how many people have those Starlink terminals and they're directing power and data all based on where those Starlink terminals are.
But there's going to be periods where they're going to be flying over the Atlantic Ocean.
There's not going to be very many terminals there.
So inherent with that, if they're still exposed to the sun, there's nothing for those satellites to do.
But they could mine Bitcoin.
And there's even satellites that aren't made with communication in mind.
They still have thrusters.
And the majority of thrusters that are used today are Hall effect thrusters.
So these are actually, they're mostly electrically driven, meaning that part of your power has to go to your propulsion system.
If you're not always propulsing, that means that you have a certain amount of engineering margin built in there to where you have more power than you need inherently.
So Bitcoin mining can act as a load during those downtimes.
That's incredible.
and then you've created a revenue stream uh over the go ahead well you you effectively subsidize
the the power costs this is incredibly important because right now um starlink and project kuiper
which is amazon's equivalent um project kuiper is already moving to terrestrial grade solar cells
because they're trying to find every way to cut power costs.
Power is hugely expensive in space.
So things like Bitcoin mining are absolutely the type of technology
that the industry needs to be able to drive down these power costs.
I truly think in 10 years' time,
people are going to look back at this and think that it's a no-brainer.
I may look like an idiot,
but I think it's going to be the former rather than the latter.
And in the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun.
So I think that this is definitely a good path to be on.
And if you've got a satellite up there for months and years on end,
just consistently picking up that dead time mining sats,
that's going to compound over time.
Obviously, we all know what Bitcoin, the power of Bitcoin does,
and that will drive down the cost and expenditure of your next launch.
Or you can use that money to put into R&D to make your product better.
I mean, everything Bitcoin touches, it just reshapes it.
It's absolutely unbelievable.
So, like, dumb question number 645.
Obviously, Wi-Fi connection.
Are you just hooking up to Starlink whilst you're up there?
well so there's um this is not a dumb question actually this is this is a huge problem as a
matter of fact um there was uh being able to talk continuously is very important for the bit for
bitcoin mining um also attached to uh like part of the reason why bitcoin mining is a great platform
for that excess energy is because of the low data rate associated with Bitcoin mining.
You know, we think that if we have a 50 kilobit per second connection,
that we're going to be able to communicate with more than enough bandwidth.
And we're aiming for less than two seconds round trip time with regards to latency.
Even then, we're probably going to be missing some of the mining efficiency
with a two-second latency, but that's perfectly fine, at least to get started.
There is a movement inside the space industry to move to more continuous connection in general.
So Starlink currently, they're very low in orbit.
SpaceX is going to be coming out with a device that they're calling the Plug-in Plaser,
which is a very silly name, but it's a very serious device.
So this is going to be a commercial off-the-shelf component that SpaceX is going to sell, that they're going to stick one end of the terminal on the top of the Starlink satellites.
So since they're very low, if your satellites are above Starlink satellites, you can communicate with the Starlink satellites by having the other end of the terminal that will point downward.
um additionally there are uh satellites that today so so that starlink system the plug-in
placer is currently not available um but there's also these uh uh uh geo satellites that are
available today so this is if um i'm not mistaken this is actually what um uh blockstream is using
for miners to be able to continuously mine no matter what location that they're at.
That same phased array antenna, instead of just pointing at a certain part of the Earth,
can point at a satellite in orbit.
And you can have continuous internet connection that way.
Generally speaking, though, those communication satellites are a really good customer.
so to speak of this technology just because they're already inherently yeah i mean they're
communication satellites by by um design so they're inherently made for um being continuously
connected to one another so and with the heat uh obviously the bitx i've got a couple running that
is very minimal amount of heat but that's inside of a like a big room you know not a tiny little cube
uh is there an exhaust system like what what what's the how's that going to work
sure um heat is a probably going to be the biggest engineering challenge that we're going to be
tackling um i hate to say it but the the electronics design for these systems is is
really not too awfully complex um uh the the thermal challenges associated with this are going to be very hard So what you have on Earth is you have you know there three modes of heat transfer
You have conduction, you have convection, and you have radiation. So
conduction is still going to be present in space. This is basically how you can,
you'll move heat from one place to another inside the spacecraft, but you won't have convection
because convection has to deal with the transportation of heat through fluids.
So now it is to say that you can use things like heat pipes in space. You still have heat pipes.
So some people may be familiar with copper water heat pipes inside computer systems.
in satellites typically these heat pipes because they're transporting heat across longer distances
these are ammonia and aluminum heat pipes so but it's the same system generally they they conduct
heat very very quickly but typically speaking you don't have convection in the way that you're not
surrounded by a medium. Your medium is vacuum. So what that means is, is you have to design your
heat transfer for radiation, which means designing for absorptivity and emissivity, which is not
something that we very much deal with on a day-to-day basis on earth. But if you've ever
seen like scientists talk about super white paint or super black paint, the reason why that is so
technologically interesting is because of the high absorptivity and emissivity associated with
these products. So really, we have to design our system to radiate as much heat away as possible.
The mathematics associated with this are really interesting. And I won't go into too much
technical detail, but the power emitted is proportional to the temperature in Kelvin to
the power of four. So if you have a large temperature difference between your surface
that you're radiating and the surface you're radiating to, which in space we can radiate to
the blackness of space, deep space, which has a Kelvin temperature of two to three degrees Kelvin,
that means that we can have a huge temperature difference. So we can generate, we can radiate
away a massive amount of heat if we keep things in the shade. If we expose them to the sun,
they're going to be hit with that 1340 watts per square meter. So things can get quite hot,
but they can also get quite cold.
So it's about careful engineering to make those two systems make some sort of equilibrium
that a Bitcoin miner can live inside.
Wow.
And this is rocket science stuff we're talking about now.
I mean, you know, I, you know, it, yeah, it is.
But really, I don't think that that's any reason to be scared of what's going on here.
Like, you know, when you talk about rocket science stuff, when I went to go work at Blue Origin, I was very much intimidated on my first days, walking around and shaking hands with people who worked on, you know, the orbiter, people who worked on the space shuttle program, people who worked on very secret government stuff.
But just seeing that they're just regular people, they're engineers, they make mistakes.
They're very imperfect.
This is a hard thing to do.
And there's systems in place that we have to respect as engineers.
But we're actually kind of treading on ground that has already been broken.
People have done this before.
It's about doing it again with Bitcoin and doing it right.
did those women go into space or was that just a complete and utter total theatrical
say that again did the women that they showed up into space in the blue origin thing
it depends on your definition of space um you know the uh blue origin breaks the carmen line
so so so yes um i would say so um however if you saw the inspiration for mission um
You know, the what SpaceX was able to do by putting people in a dragon capsule and orbit the Earth like, you know, there's levels to this game.
What is the definition of space? That's one thing I've never even thought of asking.
As someone that's never been in this field, like you just think, all right, yeah.
So you get high enough and you're in space and then you float.
And I'm sure it's a lot more than that.
What are the different levels and how do you guys, like you actual space engineers, think about it?
Sure. So, I mean, basically, as you as you leave Earth, you know, the most simple way, obviously talking about pressure, as you as you exit, as you as you increase your altitude, you're going to experience less pressure.
And effectively, what this is, is like, excuse me, you just don't have as many air molecules pressing against running into you.
So you experience less pressure as you go up, which is which is one consideration.
Additionally, you know, what we talked about earlier with the magnetosphere and radiation, that's another thing.
Um, you know, typically the, I think that probably the, the, the best definition of,
you know, being in space is probably the Carmen line, um, which is like the, the target that
blue origin was specifically going after with, with, um, new shepherd and the, and those launches
being able to bring people above the Carmen line, which is if, um, so Virgin Galactic,
with their
Spaceship One
in the White Knight 2 system
it's a plane
that brings up another
little spacecraft that
it's horizontally launched, comes off
of a runway
those that
very much if you see pictures
from those trips, you'll
think
for all intents and purposes
you would have trouble breathing if you opened up the
door, it is space
however it's not above the carmen line it is at the end of the day it's all kind of arbitrary
it's just it's a very great it's a it's like autism it's a uh it's a spectrum so to speak
uh right okay so we got to wi-fi uh so that's solved so you can mine and then you can uh
interact with the uh with the blockchain uh then you've got to consider
connecting to a pool, I guess.
Have those discussions even come up yet?
Or is it going to be solo mining?
Well, yeah.
So solo mining is a...
And to be frank, to even get started on this,
to characterize the ASIC's performance in space,
you don't even have to be connected to...
You don't have to...
that connectivity requirement, the chip is still going to perform the same.
So we can still diagnose everything without that connectivity.
However, being part of a pool is going to be inherent to this.
I will say that I have people on my team.
really
there's a man named
Bob McElrath
who has spent the
last decade
of his life working in Bitcoin
he's been
the lead engineer on a
project called Braidpool
which I
I will admit
a lot of this stuff goes over my head
it's talking about DAGs
it's very very deep into the technical
weeds of Bitcoin
and Bitcoin mining.
But Braidpool is a very beautiful system.
It's very hard to argue against its utility.
I think a system like that,
because Bob is on my...
He's been very helpful in getting right connections
and figuring out how to do this in the first place,
how to run a business in general.
I think that something like Braidpool
we're very much incentivized to to explore that specifically because i am familiar with
the technology and i can see it see its advantages um but the uh generally speaking you know if you
can connect to a pool it's it's it's better to do so than not um solo mining is is kind of like
buying a lottery ticket to a certain degree.
I can just see now you're going to have big mining operations coming,
coming to you guys to, to handle their,
their space mining operations, right? You can,
I know you wanted to open source as much, but this is so specific.
Like this is, this is real specific stuff.
And if you've got a terrestrial mining operation and the best way, if this is successful and you guys can come up with a proof of concept and show people it works, the best way you can diversify and grow your company would be in the new frontier.
This is very, very exciting.
You can also host for people, right?
for the pleb out there.
Yeah.
So on that note,
there's, you know,
if you go to our website,
dyson-labs.com,
there is a QR code there.
This is effectively a donation
for the first launch.
However,
whatever these individuals
who want to get involved
with this project more,
I know that there a lot of Bitcoin There a lot of Bitcoiners out there now who are going to if not now sell their bags Like you know when when when things get I personally don think the market is market is peaked yet But I know some people are offloading their positions now
We saw that one 80 billion dollar transaction go by earlier in the year.
I do think that it's people should hold on to their Bitcoin as long as possible.
However, I simultaneously think that this is a very interesting way to grow the ecosystem.
And I would love for people to get involved in this.
And I ultimately what ends up happening with Bitcoin mining in this project, I do want there to be equity involved.
I want I want this to be there to be some way that the people who get involved at this early stage can be involved in whatever this becomes in the long term.
And I think that it's going to take smart engineering, both both aerospace and financial engineering to make sure that that this is something that can last for for for 100 years or millennia.
And I don't really know. I have some inklings of what those what those what that organization will look like.
but at these early stages
if people want to get involved
I would recommend that they reach out to our team
personally for now
while we build up those
rails
Have you had any investment?
This is your thing now, right? It's not like you're
mining fiat during the day and this is your
side hobby. This is
you 24-7
mind, focus, laser
okay, cool. Have you
already had investors?
How are you funding all of this? Because this stuff is not cheap.
This is personally financed at this point.
I am very hopeful that we will.
There is a thing called the Small Business Innovation Research that is used for developing technology.
This is a grant that the U.S. government puts out through different agencies.
One of the agencies that does this is NASA.
I applied for an SBIR phase one grant in the beginning of 2025. I didn't get it. But now I have those connections inside NASA that I think are going to propel us into 2026, having a very, very good shot at succeeding.
but at this point this is personally funded
I am
looking forward to the day that other people decide
that they would like to change that
but and I've gotten
some interest in it some initial interest
but it just hasn't been the right
fit so far
so I
but this
is something that
it's coming
the AI inference community
if you know maybe the bitcoin community is not that familiar with with what's going on in the
space community in general but there's there's a company called star cloud star cloud's actually
building out i believe that they're targeting ai training to start but it's essentially the
same argument that i'm making that there's more energy in space and therefore we should put ai in
space. I think it's actually much more practical and simple to get started with Bitcoin mining as
a wedge business strategy, as a first step. But getting involved in those companies,
there's no easy way for an individual to do that. For this, if you reach out,
we can get something arranged. It's not like you've actively gone out looking yet,
for investment. Have you done any other podcasts if people want to listen to more stuff?
So the I spoke with NASA in well, I had to be very careful with the wording here because I
don't want anybody to get in trouble. I spoke with a program manager at NASA who happens to run
a space blockchain club. I did a podcast with him where I kind of ran through some of the initial
some of the beginnings of the idea and everything. I have been pursuing venture capital. I have some
preliminary interest from one accelerator, but I'm still trying to shore up exactly what the
details of that may look like. But generally speaking, venture capital can be kind of a dirty
business. I think working with individuals, working with Bitcoin, if I could work with
Bitcoiners like that, because the accelerators that I'm talking to, they're not under the Bitcoin
flag. I think that if there's some way to keep this, obviously this project should expand out
into the space industry at large. But if there's a way to keep things a little bit more insular
at this stage, I think that that also makes sense.
All right.
Well, if there's any way I can help,
my network is your network.
If there's anyone you can think of that might,
I mean, again, this is such a niche thing
that, yeah, you might struggle finding
and reaching those people,
but I'll do whatever I can to help you out.
And hopefully people listening to this podcast
might have found some inspiration.
Have we covered everything?
Is there anything else that we're kind of missing here that, I mean, building the thing, getting a lift into space, getting deployed, getting the Wi-Fi up, sorting out the exhaust, joining a pool?
Sure.
I think we've done most of it.
Well, I think the only thing that I'd like to say is that people can reach out to me.
Excuse me.
If people reach out from Dyson Dash Labs, we have some information on our team there.
As well, we have a mining calculator that we put together that kind of demonstrates what the economics of this will look like for a satellite in orbit.
Now, it's not very pretty.
You know, I'm a lot of things.
I'm not a UI designer, so it's functional, but it's not very gorgeous.
But that will give people an insight to kind of how these systems may work.
um and then generally like if you want to get involved whether it's technically or or financially
like i highly encourage people to reach out at dyson dash labs and you know um i'm looking forward
to making this a reality and what kind of people would you be looking for if you
other expertise you need anybody right now well i mean well obviously if there's thermal specialists
people who
worked with thermals
inside of electronics before that matters
a lot electronics
designers
there's
mission managers
things like that that would be very helpful
but honestly the curious
people who are curious
that makes the biggest
difference in
somebody's performance in my opinion
so
and I just
probably as a personal problem, I don't really shut up about this.
I just love talking to people. If people want to reach out.
Daniel, I want to say thank you so much for having me on and giving me
a chance to talk about this because
I'm building things. I think that the world
will eventually care. I know that
Bitcoiners already care. I want this
to be a community project. Will we see any of your stuff at a conference or anything anytime soon?
Have you got anything lined up? Because that's where the rubber meets the road, right? When you're
stood there at a conference, walking around with like a CubeSat with the BitTax inside, like,
yeah, guys, this is real. Yeah. So I actually just left. NASA had a conference here in Cape
Canaveral, Florida, just yesterday called the LIFT conference, the leveraging infrastructure for
future technology. So I was president there. I got a lot of good feedback while I was there.
I think the next conference that we have on the agenda is going to be in Cannes, France.
This is actually the Space Energy Insights Conference. So this is all about data in space.
And I've been slated for a 15 minute talk about Bitcoin mining in space and the economics involved
with that um so so if you're in con france um otherwise i think you'll be able to catch the
materials afterwards that's amazing so you're going to all of the that side of the industry
conferences have you hit any bitcoin conferences yet and shown anything on stage there no my um
so i i've spoken with uh mostly when i i mean i i'm a flag like really like this is something that
Now, granted, I have had this company for two years, but I just quit my W2 job last month.
So in the meantime, I've been building this on my nights and weekends.
I've gone to the Bitcoin conference and I missed it this year, but 2022 to 2024 is a pleb just going around and talking to people at Boots.
you know, especially in, at Nashville in 2024, like being able to go around and talk to,
because then this idea was very solidified, it's solidified as it, as it, as it had been at those
conferences. So talking to people about what this looked like, I believe if the CTO of Iron Energy,
he's actually an astrophysicist. So, so we kind of connected on, you know, it was a really good
conversation. So I know that there's interest in this. And then people can, you know, they get it.
But the, I haven't formally talked about this. And I would love to put together a presentation
to, you know, get Bitcoiners excited about it. Yeah, we need you at a Bitcoin conference,
like a mining conference, for sure. There's mining disrupt, obviously, in the States,
We need a bigger mining conference here, actually, in Europe and the UK, for sure.
All right.
Okay.
But last question then, why did you choose the name?
How did you come to the name of the company?
So Dyson Laboratories I mean you know I hate to say that it came to me like in a dream but it came to me during intense meditation um i went through a period where i
left i i had a a disagreement with somebody at blue origin that fundamentally made me start to
question how good I was as an engineer. And I carried a lot of anger about the way that things
played out. Ultimately, things played out perfectly. Everything worked the way that it should.
But at the time, I was maybe insecure about my ability as an engineer is an appropriate thing to
say. And when Michael Saylor said that solving the double spend problem is effectively the same
thing as solving the conservation of energy, it made me go to, well, where is the most energy?
Well, and then I technically started breaking it down, figuring out how much fissile energy there
is versus what's available from the sun. And with Starship coming on board, it made me just
kind of have a connection during meditation that we are on the cusp of having a Dyson sphere.
And I truly believe that Bitcoin is going to be the technology that enables that.
um so maybe it's grandiose um i i don't know um if nothing else i think the name gets people excited
okay dyson sphere do you just want to explain exactly what that is because i had to quickly
google it sure so so freeman dyson um was a uh he was a physicist um he was kind of a polymath
He did a bunch of things. But one of the things that he conceptualized is that the ability, one of the ways that we'd be able to identify alien civilizations is by studying their starlight.
And potentially these alien civilizations would harness all of the power generated by the sun.
We know that the power drops off as you move away from the sun.
So there would be some sort of object in front moving around stars that would be used to capture the starlight energy.
And effectively, that could be a way that we would search for alien civilizations.
and inherently this the same type of technology when you start talking about capturing solar energy
yes it's going to start by orbiting the earth but you know seven minutes for for daylight to
to reach the earth you know seven minutes is with the 10 within the 10 minute block time so
you know that that that there there's some interesting insights to be gained from that
mate that's awesome okay right wrap it up if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody
who would you give it to and why
man i think that if i i'm hoping that this is the orange pill for the aerospace community
there is a lot of conservatism inside the aerospace community when it comes to
moving away from things that have already worked. I want people to be broken free from
this system that they've grown used to and see the truth that is Bitcoin. I think that that time's
coming. Yeah. Well, I'm sure many people listening to this have just had their minds blown. I'm
already thinking of the people that I can forward it to. So I appreciate you coming on. Appreciate
you giving up the time and everything that you're doing for Bitcoin.
And it's going to be exciting watching this one play out.
Please keep me updated.
We connected on Orange Pill app, so you can always get me there.
So many links, any updates, anything you need help with.
Like I said, you know, I'm fully open and just, yeah, blown away.
Like five years of doing this part and you get to have some incredible conversations.
and sometimes like a whole new frontier comes along
and you've just blown it wide open.
So that's amazing.
Thank you.
Daniel, you're making me emotional, man.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Have a good afternoon.
Yeah, you too, brother.
Thank you.
Well, there you go, guys.
Otherworldly stuff.
I said in the beginning this was going to be a fun one.
Can you feel it?
It doesn't get much more intense, I guess, than leaning in to what most people are going to view as a completely crazy idea.
but with the passion and the foresight,
the laser eye focus and the knowledge that this is possible.
And with Bitcoin on your side,
you've got Bitcoin stood on your shoulder.
You've got the truth on your side.
The people that this is going to resonate with,
reach out, reach out to Calvin,
go and have another conversation
or your first conversation with him
after listening to this episode.
And just connect.
and let's hope that these guys start showing up at the conferences
and we can start getting our hands on what this might actually look like.
So, you know, get it tangible, get it in front of people.
It's going to really...
It's such an impressive idea.
It's so cool.
Yeah, I'm kind of lost for words just listening back to this one as well.
So, yeah, like I said at the end there.
Thanks, Kelvin.
This is a new frontier and I hope people out there that have the skill set and the knowledge and the abilities or have a network are able to reach you.
Calvin is on Orange Pill App, so you can just go down, find him on Orange Pill App, download the app, find him there, ping him a message, tell him you heard him on this show and you'd love to reach out and learn more.
Otherwise, the website is dyson-labs.
I'll put that in the show notes and you'll be able to reach out via their contact form on the website.
Well, that's it, guys. That's the show. Thank you for listening. You can please download and listen to this one on Fountain App. If you've not listened to this one on Fountain App today, make it your... before year end, let's get over to Fountain App.
Let's get off of Spotify and Apple and all the other podcast platforms that are not made for Bitcoiners because Fountain is made for Bitcoiners by Bitcoiners.
It's the value for value landscape.
You can go and set up your listening over there and be part of the Bitcoin ecosystem.
You can stream sats.
You can receive sats when you're listening to pods.
You can boost messages direct to your favorite podcasters.
There's loads on there now, loads of Bitcoin-only podcasts on the Fountain app.
And yeah, just be part of this ecosystem.
Get away from the walled gardens of the big fiat machine
and help go support Fountain app and the other podcasters out there
that are putting out all of this great content.
You can now subscribe to the Once Bitten podcast over there.
That's five bucks a month.
So that gets you early access and it gets you ad-free.
And the video function is now working too on Fountain.
It is still in beta, so give them a little time.
But if you're on your mobile device and you're listening to the audio,
maybe you're on a train and you just want to switch it to video,
you can now just switch it to video and you're watching the video there.
And you don't need the YouTube or the Spotify.
It's all in the Fountain app.
and like I said five bucks a month gets you early access it takes a day or two for general release
so if you don't like the preamble and you don't like the ad reads you don't like this blah blah
blah at the end none of it's there it's just the conversation and that's what you're paying for if
you do like all that stuff just subscribe and you'll get it all for free if you want to buy
early access that's going to be $2.10
2.1 and you'll be able to
something comes up
I need to listen to that right now
I can't wait the two days
you can just smash buy it with Bitcoin on Fountainhead
by the Lightning Network
so yeah I'm glad to be supporting those guys
I saw Nick and Oscar
at the Bury St. Edmunds conference
I've got to give some conference shout outs
there's one coming up in
what are we October is next
That's the Bitcoin Balkans.
That's going to take place in Sofia.
And it's an incredible city.
And the Bulgarian Bitcoiners are so freaking fun.
They're a great bunch of guys.
They're going to welcome you to their city.
And they're going to put on a great show.
Panels and everything.
There will be English and Bulgarian language.
But they separate them.
Or at least they did last time.
I'm sure they'll be doing the same kind of thing again.
So get over there.
Use the code BIT and get a 10% discount.
Then in November, we've got BitFest.
That's taking place in Manchester in the United Kingdom.
Another conference in the UK.
Look at us go.
So you can get a 10% discount if you use the code BITTON.
They're doing a three-day event.
The first day is going to be Nostashire or Nostashire if you're from England.
And that's going to be obviously all things Nostashire and then two days of all things Bitcoin.
They've got some great speakers lined up.
They're doing a great job putting that one together.
So that's BitFest.
Again, link in the show notes.
that's going to be in Manchester. Also in Tokyo, the back end of November, we have BTC Japan
coming at you right out of Tokyo. So if you're in Asia, if you want to make that leap, get across
over there, go check it out, go see what the guys are up to. They are going to put an incredible
conference. Again, code BITN. It's very simple. B-I-T-T-E-N is going to get you 10% discount on
all your ticket purchases.
And you can already buy tickets for Prague next year
if you want to get to BTC Prague in June.
Again, the code is still running for that one.
And if you hear of any events that you'd like me to reach out to
to see if they'd be willing to offer and extend you some discounts,
just let me know.
Ping me on OrangePillApp or find me on Twitter or NOSTA.
And I look forward to you guys reaching out
and catch you on the next show.
Thank you so much for listening.