Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.
Joining me today all the way from Japan and are you clued in about BTC Japan because she is one
of the key organizers. Her name is Teruko who's joining me today. She is working with Folga
Ventures out of Asia and is also now working alongside ANAP which is a Japanese clothing
brand that is trying to reinvent itself through lifestyle branding and bitcoin education and
stacking bitcoin onto their balance sheet so this isn't a bitcoin treasury company play in air quotes
you know this is a a lifestyle japanese clothing brand that's been around since the early 90s which
is trying to revive itself which is a much more wholesome way to think about a bitcoin treasury
company, a company that is trying to protect its future, protect its employees, its employees'
families by taking profit off the table each month and stacking Bitcoin with it onto the
company balance sheet to be able to use in a few years' time, five, ten years' time to keep the
business alive and keep pushing forward. So we get into all of that kind of stuff. And one thing
you should know before we start, Teruko is an absolute Bitcoin maxi and translated the Bitcoin
standard into Japanese. We go into that story and how harrowing that was and I just really appreciate
Teruko for everything that she's been doing for Bitcoin over there in Asia and it's been great to
get to know her over the last few months because obviously I had no idea that she existed and all
of the hard work that she's been doing over there and this is what i love about doing this show
is that you just get exposed to what's going on in different parts of the world so thank you
taruko for everything you're doing if you want to get to btc japan since we recorded this you
might have heard on the previous shows taruko has extended a 10 discount to anybody that listens to
the show and wants to use the code bitten to get themselves a ticket b-i-t-t-e-n go to checkout
purchase your ticket use the code BITTON and get yourself 10% off get over to Japan if you can
also coming up towards the end of this month is BitFest in Manchester I say this all the time
if you do not get to a Bitcoin conference you're certainly missing out at least get to your local
meetup if you can't do that get out and meet your local Bitcoiners you can do that very easily by
downloading Orange Pill app and finding out who is close to you in and around your area so hit
Hit the link in the show notes to Orange Pill App and get signed up.
And if you want to get to BitFest in Manchester in the UK,
use the code BITTON, hit the link in the show notes,
get that code in there and get yourself a 10% discount.
I've got a show coming up soon with Julian Linegar from RELAI.
R-E-L-A-I dot C-H forward slash BITTON.
Because like I said in the last episode,
they have now got their Mika license.
This has been a long, hard, arduous road for them to get through this red tape.
They're based out in Switzerland.
They now have it, as far as I'm concerned, as far as my knowledge, excuse me,
one of the first Bitcoin companies to get that done,
probably the first Bitcoin-only company to get that done,
so they can start servicing and practicing and really pushing the message across Europe.
So if you're not stacking with Relay, it's a great resource.
r-e-l-a-i dot c-h
forward slash bittern
you can download the app today
stack up to a thousand
swiss or equivalent
per day
you know that's a lot
so don't get over your skis
but do whatever you can afford
set up that dollar cost average
set up your private keys
within the wallet
so you will have it
in your control
and do get yourself
a cold storage device
a hardware wallet
or a signing device
whatever you want to call it
doesn't matter the language
you need to take control
of your Bitcoin and you will only do that if you are in control of the keys and you can do that
with the Bitbox. Bitbox.swiss forward slash Bitten, another Swiss company. They work closely
with Relay actually. They're very much aligned with the mission of stacking sats and getting
into cold storage. So Bitbox.swiss forward slash Bitten. Use the code Bitten and you'll get 5%
discount you can hit the link in the show notes it's all very easy for you guys to do that and to
get stacking uh and if you're listening from across the pond in the u.s swan bitcoin offer you a very
similar service so swan bitcoin.com forward slash bitten uh flash pay with flash.com excuse me
pay with flash.com i was chatting with pierre today on text we've got to get him on the show
to get you up to speed with what they're up to they have the uh the plug and play method for you
to start accepting Bitcoin for your goods and services.
If you want to start spending Bitcoin,
get over to plebeian.market and get over to Fountain app
and start streaming and boosting Bitcoin
to your favorite podcasts that are Bitcoin enabled on Fountain.
Other than that, I hope you enjoy this interview with Teruko.
All right, Teruko, we have you.
We can hear you.
We can see you.
How are you doing?
Good.
I'm good.
thank you how are you very well very well and uh yeah thank you for coming on the show and uh thank
you for inviting me of course it's it's interesting always to meet new people and uh the way we've got
to meet and uh get to know each other has its own little story so that's that's always fun to dig
into unfortunately lauren isn't here to ask the first question as you can see but well maybe she'll
get to meet you one day in person and ask you but uh the question would have been why did you decide
to translate the bitcoin standard
that's a yeah that's a story too so um i got in bitcoin at the end of 2017 at the height of the
bubble and then I bought bitcoin before you know doing any research and then I got burned like two
days after I bought first bitcoin the market crashed and you know but I was too late to sell
so I you know I just watched the market crash while you know I'm just holding on to this bitcoin
thing and then I thought myself like damn it this happens you know when you don't do research and
just to buy something you don't know about it. So I decided I have to learn about Bitcoin so that
I wouldn't, you know, be fooled by this kind of scam in the future. And then at that time,
I had much more free time. So I just started reading anything about Bitcoin I can find online.
I started watching YouTube, starting listening to podcasts, but many of them, because it was back in 2017, the, you know, ICO bubble.
So I couldn't really find any good resources until I came across the bullish case for Bitcoin by Vijay.
So that blog post was the first time it made me realize, OK, maybe Bitcoin is not a scam.
it might actually be something, you know, innovative, something good.
So I started, you know, digging in more and more.
And then two, three months later, I found this book called Bitcoin Standard in Amazon, I think.
And then by then, I started to go into like Bitcoin Meetup in Tokyo.
And some people recommended that book.
So I was like, this book is really, really big.
I don't know if I can finish it.
But I started reading and then, you know, before you know it, you like you just go into the rabbit hole like before you know it.
Right. So but first time I read, I kind of knew, OK, so it's something great, but I don't really get it like completely.
So I read three times and then, oh, OK, so this is actually, you know, like revolution.
This is like nothing else.
So that was like April, May 2018, I think.
And, you know, I didn't actually think about like translating it right away because I was still like half-baked Bitcoin.
I was more like a blockchain.
back then so i'm like okay so bitcoin's let's it so what else you know what other tokens i can buy
probably so that still you know that what's still going on but after i started hanging out with like
you know og in tokyo um and then because the market went down so the meetup essentially became just a
bunch of Bitcoiners, all those Bitcoiners and then also tourists left. So I was like, you know,
learning from those people who were in the Bitcoin more than like, you know, a cycle already.
And then one of them was Wids. Wids is now the CEO of Mental.Space. And then he back then had a
meetup which is probably a bit like uh bit devs now so he had a conference style meetups like two
three people present and you know after that we just network so one day um he was looking for
speakers and then i kind of volunteered to speak and then because i'm not dev i can't talk about
technology right but um i wanted to share this really great book and then that was our bitcoin
standard so i did like a crash course of bitcoin standard like 90 minutes like non-stop i just
talked talked about that book and then after i finished uh reads came up to me and then
asked me if i want to translate bitcoin standard because turned out he was all um he you know
So right after he read the book, he thought this might actually change Japanese or Japan.
So he was already talking to publishers, like editors, but because it's a Bitcoin, no one
really took it seriously.
So he couldn get the contract yet But he was you know because the translation takes time so he decided to go ahead with translation before we actually find our publishers that was like
already like 2019 2020 i think 2019 yeah so um i started translating and then
we finally found the publisher who's willing to take the risk
yeah so it wasn't actually my idea it was wizz idea and then i kind of i was lucky enough to you
know work with him wow all right well done wizz uh so yeah did there's still a lot to answer here
because it's this is not an easy task you know people people think if you're bilingual then yeah
go ahead why wouldn't you translate it but there's so much nuance and so much work that needs to go in
behind the scenes because it's not like you you don't literally translate each word word for word
like it's you've got to put all the tenses in the right place i mean translating from english to
french or back to it's all back to front you know uh the french think we speak back to front and we
think this uh you know verbs be go after adjectives and it's just a nightmare uh so
had you ever done anything like this before or you're just like yeah whatever
no i knew nothing about translation but because i loved that book so much that i wouldn't like i
couldn't let anyone else to mess up so if you know this is gonna be in japanese i have to do it
because you know I can't think of anyone else who would be this passionate about this book
so even though I had no experience I'm like I'm just gonna do it so it took me up so that was
almost like during the pandemic so luckily I didn't have to commute so I had more time
than usual so I spent almost like four or five hours every day for six months straight
yeah and then the most difficult part was because um australian australian economics it's not that
you know major it's not that popular right i went to my school like university the library and then
i looked at you know australian economics book to just you know reconform my translation is the
right word like the terms economics terms but I couldn't find many so some of the word I have to
like invent and it had to like sound like a legit economic word so that was tough and then also all
the um like footnote he listed so many books right and then I had to force investigate if that book
has Japanese translation and if they have I have to go to the biggest library in Japan and actually
locate that book and then find out what page that description was on yeah no way yeah that must have
taken so long yeah yeah i i don't yeah i was like you were you were physically traveling to
to the library to to do this and you would go with a list of stuff like the librarians must
have been who's this crazy woman no we don't have these books yeah it wasn't like human actions is
like this big right i can't check out like i have to be there and look through yeah i might be the
first person asked for the book did they have human action in japanese and then volume over
i got so scared my god this big but it's in japanese it yeah yeah it is wow yeah my goodness
right okay so now yeah so it's not you know to your point it's not just a case of you know
referencing the book oh if you want to learn more just go no you've got to reference a book
then find the quote then find the citation and then find the page number
yeah that alone that alone took quite some time but uh because um
the publisher wanted to publish the book as an English text,
English, no, economic text.
So it has to be like, you know, proper.
So, yeah, it was tough.
So the publisher was more from, would you say,
like technical area or economics?
Yeah, they actually published like some school textbook.
School textbooks, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
Is the Bitcoin standard going to make it into schools?
No, no, no.
I mean, so after, yeah, after the book was done,
me and the Waze, you know, kind of did this little project that we,
because as our translator, we get a discount on the books, right?
So like 20 discounts.
So we bought like 100 books and then tried to give to the university library.
and then I don't know how many but we probably uh gifted more than 58 copies so like yeah
and what did um I was just about to look up I because it's a different picture what's the
front cover it's not the same one did you choose something different it's different
we didn't sign the uh the publisher had that in-house designer so yeah they did it so they
did that uh okay uh i'm one i'd love to know what it is now i'm just doing a quick google
and how better what how close did you work with with safe uh for all of this like were you in
constant contact or was he just like go do the thing yes sometimes but mainly because it's you
know english to japanese translation i usually when i have a problem i just ask to wait
yeah so but one part i have to ask safety because i didn't
so when i decided to do this translation i decided that you know i have to kind of convey
the tone for like his character in this book right so it's not my word it has to be his word
so and then original bitcoin standard you know it's a bit like aggressive like very like you know
for japanese it's probably too aggressive so i try to soften it a bit but i still wanted to
you know convey what kind of tone and what kind of emotion he has in this part blah blah blah
but one sentence or like one note i had to ask safety to you know close out like i don't want
to put this in my like you know japanese book what's uh you know like change and being homosexual
yes i knew you were gonna say that i know i know the exact sentence and we all love it
okay maybe i mean the fact but it's irrelevant and then this probably will you know
push away some japanese audience i didn't want to risk
see everything said okay yeah you can you can you know remove it but i don't know the consequence
of that you know japan might have like you know delayed the bitcoin adoption like by 100 years
because of you removing this one sentence.
The opportunity cost of taking out a sentence, obviously, yes.
Yeah, but, you know, even though it will be published
as an economic textbook, my personal goal was
if someone picks up this book and buys this book,
I want everybody to finish it you know I don't want anyone to give up because it's too long
because it's too difficult so I really tried to make it simple like easy to read yeah
wow well congratulations congratulations because it's it's no easy feat and I can't imagine the
Did you have any idea of the sales numbers that a publisher let you know what they've sold?
This is also another story.
So I actually live in Thailand, and then they have a Thai version of Bitcoin Standard.
Superior Thai OG has translated around the same time as me.
and he sold 70, yeah, 70K, 70, yeah, 70K copies by now.
And then so far I sold, so until a few months ago,
I sold the total number was like 4,000.
So like, you know, fraction of hits.
but I don't know if you saw the tweet
so Metaplanet kind of
you know customized the cover and then made their
own version of Bitcoin standard. It's still the same book but they just
printed their version of the cover and then
the original proposal was
they wanted to make their own version like special version
of a bitcoin standard so that they can you know give to the shareholders at the shareholders
meeting so they ordered 2 000 so even you know after like four years the sales was like 4 000
and then suddenly it's like six things to meta planet wow okay yeah damn that's that's crazy to
think that you know you can do the same work in in one language and it sells 70 000 in thailand
and so much i mean obviously there's a lot at play when thinking about the marketing and the
the way that the publisher works and pushes out the book and how much budget they have to do all
of that but still that's a huge gap and what a shame i mean japanese version it's too expensive
I think I mean for the textbook maybe okay but like you know for like you know someone just want
to you know study by themselves it's probably especially for um like university students
high school students it's it's expensive okay well anyway congratulations excellent that uh
and how long did it take you would you say do you know how long it took you to from start to finish this labor of love So six months six months wow so that yeah bitcoin standard is six months but after that i did other translations and then the last yeah so
how many have you done so bitcoin standard was the first and then second was uh the little
bitcoin book the small one that was okay and then the third one was um the bullish case for bitcoin
the book yeah that was okay because that's like 80 of the translation i already did when i
translated his blog post so that was okay and then um check your financial privilege oh my goodness
Yeah, that was a big book too.
But that was also very difficult to translate
because I couldn't believe that was the reality
because, you know, I used to wanted to work for like UN
or like World Bank to help those, you know,
poor people, you know, pull those out of property, right?
so that organization and people working there I had so much respect and then in the book it was
all like you know scan so I'm like really like I have to double check so as I translate I had to
do like fact check so it took me like almost like almost two years as a part-time because I have a
full-time jobs.
Yes, of course.
Alex's work there is
excellent.
You're so
right.
Especially, I find
the UN,
the IMF,
the World Bank,
the Sirens song
there, it definitely
appeals more, I think,
to the female
uh kind of nature my my daughter caitlin who you've met she yeah she'd always say oh these
places do so much great work it's amazing i'm like you gotta read this and i'm telling you
there's a darker side to all of this and when you realize how they were formed when they were formed
why they were formed who formed them and the way like john perkins work the confessions of an
economic hitman was was my wake-up call john valis put me onto that book and i just couldn't
believe what i was reading and i was already down the rabbit hole you know it's just um yeah it's
it's really bad and the people that work there now they haven't this is the darkest part of it they
have no idea what they're part of they do not know they are destroying people's lives and they're
being used to do it?
Yeah, they have no idea.
Because I actually went to school in D.C.
hoping to, you know, work one of those organizations.
I end up, you know, not getting a job.
But some of my friends still work there.
And then, you know, yeah, like they, I don't know if they still believe they are helping
people, but, you know, I mean, they are good people.
they don't yeah I don't think they are they realize that they are part of the scale
and it's across all all the work that they do you know you have nurses out there that are
like helping with modern and modern birthing practices in in air quotes which uh it's basically
just to push um you know western medicine onto again in air quotes developing nations or third
world nations and they think they're doing good stuff but they're not they're just peddling like
even worse you have people out there doing like circumcision drives in in Africa and you know
under the idea of this is gonna you know help with AIDS and HIV and like oh god and they
honestly think they're doing good work and it's it's completely the opposite stuff like you're
almost doing the devil's work.
And I mean, then obviously with the monetary policies
that come in and the politicians that get bribed
into taking the loans,
and then that loan doesn't even hit them, right?
The loan is sent to the American corporations,
the mining companies that are going to go in
and build the dam or are going to go in
and lay the railway tracks.
you know the money that reaches the country reaches the pockets of the people that need it
i.e the ones that need to be kept in place of power and uh bribed for want of another word
yeah wow so you know translating something obviously gives you a much deeper understanding
because you have to you have to understand it in the the language first of all in your case
you're understanding it in English, but then cross-referencing it in Japanese.
So you're getting epiphanies going off on both sides of your brain.
Yeah, so, yeah, you really have to understand what's this about.
And then you have to, because, like you said,
the sentence structure is different in Japanese than English.
So oftentimes I have to, like, restructure the paragraph, like sentence,
not only sentence but also paragraph because you know like in english you say like conclusion first
but in japanese it's always the last so i have to kind of shuffle around the um structure too
so yeah it's um a lot of work and then i don't want to do ever again but uh you're done now
i already like you know uh yeah said in public but the last book i'm working on no actually last
two books I'm working on.
So because I started
with Safe Things, Bitcoin Standard,
I'm going to finish his
Fiat Standard
and then also Gold Standard.
Yeah. I hope
there will be no more standard.
No more standard, Safe. Please.
Taruko, she needs
a rest.
So what were
you doing before then?
In your Fiat job.
You discovered Bitcoin, but you obviously
got a career on the go in Tokyo, I'm assuming. And now obviously, you're translating books
into Japanese, you're working at Fulga Ventures, looking out for investments. So what was the path?
Obviously, you said you went to DC to try and study international relations, politics,
all this kind of stuff to try and get yourself a job in the UN or World Bank.
That didn't work out. So it's back to Japan. What did you find?
So I worked with Sony.
Yeah, as a marketer, product planner, business planner.
Yeah.
So, yeah, but I didn't like it.
I'm not like, you know, I wasn't like, I know some people love audio, like video, like these gadgets.
But I was never into it.
So I couldn't be like passionate enough to sell this product.
Like I don't care.
And then because I was, so Sony is headquartered in Japan, but they have sales companies, they have subsidiary all over the world, right?
And then because I just came back from the US, I actually asked and I assumed I'll be reassigned, like I would be sent back to the US to take care of US business.
But for some reason, they decided to send me to Europe, like Brussels.
like I mean I don't speak Spanish I mean I don't speak French like office you know they speak French
I don't speak French I have no like knowledge about how this country works or like you know
Germany or like Italy I have no idea why I was assigned there and I was so miserable
yeah because Brussels um I don't know if you know but um that traffic is really bad it was
bad when I was there. So all the Sony employees were packed into this one condominium, apartment
building, right? Because I don't drive, not many, not everybody drives. So we carpool in the morning
to go to the office, which is, if no traffic, it's like 15, 20 minutes. But with traffic,
it can be like two hours so like every morning we had to get up like around five to beat the traffic
one day someone you know slept over and we couldn't get out before like 5 30 or like six
and then to just get out of the garage it took us like 30 minutes oh my gosh
wow yeah so yeah also yeah europe is not one country right like us it's just one country one
language one culture but europe you have to deal with like each country you each country has to
create their own like marketing strategy the marketing campaign marketing strategy
different budget different like you know so i mean i felt like i'm not marketer i'm more like
you know like coordinator like just to approve the budget so i didn't enjoy the job right so
and then back to japan after that yeah yeah yeah back to japan so i left sony probably after like
three years and then i um yeah i was in japan for a while uh by the time i left sony i decided i will
never you know work for anyone like i just want to work on my own so i started like small business
myself like doing i did um many stuff but the one which lasted me longest was airbnb host
so i one time i had six units i think so that was like through time yeah through time airbnb host
my goodness yeah that one i enjoyed i love so much well the fight five more properties than meta planet
well let's let's focus on bitcoin then uh folga ventures how did you end up working with folga
and and for those that aren't aware of who folga are do you want to just give a little bit of
background and history.
Yes. So Fulgar Ventures is venture capital,
but we only invest in Bitcoin project, Bitcoin companies.
It was, I think, founded in 2018.
And so I don know Fulgar means lightning in Latin Yeah So most of our companies are around like lightning technology
But nowadays, we invest in like ARC, we invest in like other infras, we are big on like side chains too, like RGB, the open source protocol, we support that too.
But even though we are venture capital, we also support those open source projects and then also conferences, hackathons, because eventually the success of our portfolio company depends on the success of Bitcoin.
So that's why we are big on education too.
Yeah, for sure.
I just want to accelerate the hyper-victa process for hyper-victiconization.
So hoping to see a glimpse of it before we die.
Yes, exactly.
Because it's like 100 years.
Education is key to that.
Yeah, education is key.
So I actually work for Fuga Ventures Japan,
which was established in 2020 or 2021.
The original hope was that we find Bitcoin company to invest,
but turned out there are no Bitcoin company in Japan.
So all I had to do was educate Japanese people
to get them interested in Bitcoin and the Bitcoin business.
I've been doing this like five years already, but I haven't, I can't say I succeeded.
It's really difficult.
Japan is different.
Right.
So, and that brings us then to ANAP, because this is how we connected, how we met.
when my daughter, Caitlin, was contacted by you through Elena,
who put her name forward as somebody that might be interested in helping you out.
What is ANAP and what's going on over in Japan at the moment?
so um an app is an apparel company was established in 1992 and then their customers are like
teenagers you know girls who's hanging out in harajuku and shibuya very affordable very
fashionable with like an app like you know signature logo so that was really popular
in the 90s.
But
last, like, you know,
10, 15 years,
they've been struggling.
They couldn't, like,
grow with the customer.
They couldn't pivot.
But Anna, you know,
in Japan, Anna's brand recognition
is really still strong.
Like, people can recognize Anna,
the name, but the brand
is, like, dying.
Right. Would a good comparison be,
like Uniqlo is that the kind of um brand like I would say Anab is probably um I don't know if
Topshop is still in the UK or like um in US probably like um American Eagle like Abercrombie
or something okay right so like Uniqlo is more of like the fast fashion just really cheap get it
going as quickly as possible whereas an app is like uh they have main stuff they have kids stuff
they have uh like underwear they have like travel stuff but an app it's just girls like teenager
and then all the clothes i think okay all right cool well yeah that's good reference okay so
yeah so early 90s they get founded they they're jogging along doing good business uh they've got
their core customers
they know who they're aiming at
what happens?
Why does it all fall off?
Yeah, so they've been
struggling to
turn around the business
and I don't actually know how they
found about Bitcoin
and then
how they got interested
but last year
somehow
Somehow, Fluga and then ANAP was connected.
And then Fluga ventures Japan, the CEO, took over that role of CEO of ANAP a few months ago, like this year.
So now he's like serving the two companies.
So I actually don't work for ANAP, but because I work for him, so I indirectly work with them a lot.
now. So basically
they have their
apparel business still, but they are
so before it's just the ANAP, their apparel
company, but this year in April
ANAP was like restructured and now
ANAP Holdings is on top and then three
subsidiaries and then one of this this uh anap it's like original anap they still do like you
know uh for young girls and the second one is anap lightning capital which that's basically
like treasured strategy and they have third business i forgot the name but that one um anap
so yeah anap outdoor apparel company they actually have a like spa like wellness uh business too
They have physical spurs all over Japan.
So those three companies.
And then my boss, the NFC,
was trying to connect all the business into Bitcoin.
So the first one is to,
because it's a fashion brand,
they are creating a new lifestyle brand,
which is inspired by Bitcoin.
So it reflects that Bitcoin ethos.
but you know we're not gonna like they're not gonna make like orange t-shirts or like you know
t-shirts with bitcoin logo it has because they wouldn't wear that they have like proper design
so the creative team will think about you know it's subtle but if you know you know kind of
twist so yeah like probably very like japanese taste like muji or like unique or you know like
functional like simple but stylish but with bitcoin twist interesting low time preference
clothing clothing that's going to last you know you know turns the idea of well if you look at
fiat clothing the idea of fast fashion is so disgusting yeah it's really you know and and for
a clothing brand to start thinking about you know how do we design a lifestyle brand around bitcoin
and with the ethos of Bitcoin.
It's going to be very interesting to watch.
It's such a cool story that, you know,
because the narrative for the last six months has been,
as you know, new Bitcoin treasury company.
And obviously you have the poster child over there in MetaPlanet.
And I have my views on what's going on
with these Bitcoin treasury companies.
many of them are just going to run out of steam and get acquired by you know
mergers hostile takeovers mergers and acquisitions things like that that are going to
see this honeypot of bitcoin built by these companies that are printing stock or printing
shares to take the money to buy the Bitcoin, that flywheel breaks one day and is going to break
very, very badly, especially when you've got no products behind what you're doing.
And in the case of MetaPlanet, apparently a budget hotel group, but they've got one hotel.
So I can't see a viable business there personally. Bitcoin treasury bros are going to come at me,
but like, you know, whatever, do your own research.
Whereas what you're describing is a 25-year-old company,
like a 30-year-old company, you know,
realizing something is changing.
And you've got a Bitcoin guy there now as the CEO,
however that connection happened, that's so cool,
trying to revive it from the ashes.
by incorporating education and branding,
whatever that's going to be.
I love the if you know, you know approach.
Yeah, that's way more, I don't know, wholesome, I guess,
is kind of the way I look at it.
It's really like, you know, low time preference too,
because ANAP itself will not promote Bitcoin directly, right?
So through this new lifestyle brand, you know, hopefully they will get funds like who would buy repeatedly, right?
And then those customers will be probably, you know, start wondering why I keep buying, you know, this brand.
Why do I like this brand?
And then they do a little research, maybe, you know, look up like foods behind and stuff like that.
and then oh anna anna anna and bitcoin bitcoin like i hate bitcoin but you know i like this you
know kind of stuff like i like their clothing like i like their furniture why and then they keep
wondering and then you know hopefully some of them will go down the bitcoin rabbit hole that way so
an app or like fashion the brand can be the new entrance to bitcoin world so even though we're
now gonna say you know bitcoin anywhere like on the like store like on a shopping bag we're not
gonna say anything but we are hoping that they will start like they will be curious and then
they will start like digging in and they'll find out, oh my God,
so this is a Bitcoin company. This is a Bitcoin brand.
Yeah.
Very cool approach.
Will they accept Bitcoin if anybody wants to go and buy clothing?
Yeah.
In Japan, you can accept Bitcoin as a payment method.
So yeah, no problem.
Very cool.
And you were in Asia for the conference there.
and that was the first time I believe you had a booth.
What was the feedback to the people that were coming up
and asking you questions.
So, most people were surprised and curious about why like Japanese fashion brand is here, right?
Because this is a Bitcoin conference and then ANAP is not a Bitcoin company.
So when we tell this story, ANAP is launching this new lifestyle brand, which was, you know, inspired by Bitcoin.
And they kind of, you know, eyes spark like, really?
Like, where can I buy it?
It's not there yet.
So it was a really positive reaction.
Yeah, it was good to see people were interested in those kind of, you know, new projects.
And then also, yeah, I guess because it was Hong Kong.
So Hong Kong people loves anything from Japan.
So like Uniqlo, Muji or like Japanese food everywhere.
So they are interested because it's Bitcoin and because it's Japanese brand.
So I think, yeah, that brand might have a better chance in Asia.
Like Thailand, people like Thai people love anything Japanese.
So maybe our focus, our primary focus should be in Asia.
so did i have stores in other countries or just in in japan at the moment right now and i've only
had stores in japan but this new brand they will um they will have online store and then it's
probably be available anywhere in the world right okay and uh conference time because you're very
much involved with i believe i mean uh correct me if i'm wrong but i believe you're very much
involved in organizing the conference in in japan in tokyo that's coming up in november
yes so it's called bitcoin japan 2025 so last year actually um pulgar co-hosted bitcoin tokyo
2024 with diamond hands that was the first bitcoin only international conference in japan
and because it was for the first time we kind of you know uh intentionally
try to make it more like fun event for bitcoiners so our target audience was bitcoiners
um and then we had a fun like not only like uh presentation um kind of discussion but we had like
expo area where you can buy stuff with lightning or like you know game and stuff like that so
our theme was like not only learn about bitcoin but also experience bitcoin so that was successful
and then but you know all the conference organizers would say ah never again and then
I wasn't the exception. I'm like, oh, never again. So I even told my boss and, you know,
Fuga that I would never do this. I would never do this. This is my first and the last time.
And they're like, yeah, yeah. OK, OK, OK. So I wasn't going to do it. But so I don't know if you
heard of Tokyo Bitcoin base, which is a big like physical Bitcoin hub in Tokyo. So we launched
Tokyo Bitcoin base in April.
So everybody, like a Bitcoin,
Flugar Ventures team from Europe
has come to the opening party.
And then at that party,
someone asked,
so when will be Bitcoin Tokyo this year?
Is it going to be like fall,
like last year?
And then I said,
no, that will never going to be
like Bitcoin Tokyo again.
And then my boss, like big boss,
not like the big boss said no no no it's happening like excuse me i told you i'm not gonna do it i
don't want to die and he said you don't have to do it we can just hire you know like team
from other conferences and i'm like okay but then i thought you know you can't really do it
unless you speak Japanese
unless you know people
like locally you can't do it
so like if
same as like Bitcoin study
if someone's gonna mess up
you know I would do it
because I know how to do it
I know how to do it well
so I'm like yes I'll do it
so I feel like
I was kind of tricked
like trapped
just when you think you're out
they pull you back in so you're back to organizing a bitcoin conference uh so and it's not far away
i mean we are september 30th it's 23rd of november yeah 23rd and 24th right and you've
been kind enough to extend first of all you extended an invitation thank you so much sorry
we can't make it uh we will be in manchester but you've also very kind to offer a discount code to
the listeners so if anybody does want to make their way over to Tokyo which is such a great city
I've had the privilege of visiting my wife and kids have not so we do definitely want to get
there at some stage and what better excuse than to go to a conference so those that can make it
if you use the code BITTEN B Turoka has been very kind and offered a 10 discount on the tickets there So what speakers do you have lined up For anybody that thinking about it and is getting excited
what do you have planned?
So speakers, this year we're going to have main conference and then dev day.
right so for main conference um i invite because um japanese people like to hear from someone with
authority and then someone you know like someone from the u.s because basically we look up to the
u.s we just follow whatever the u.s is doing right so um i invited uh grant from uh bitcoin
Policy Institute, hoping him to share what's going on in the US and then push Japanese government to
follow their footsteps. And then also I invited Roger from, he is the author of Will Mao by Bitcoin.
So he's a China expert.
So yeah, US and China, it's two countries,
Japanese companies always kind of have to look into.
So those two will share what's going on in those countries.
And then who else?
Anyone?
Yeah, so Luke Dash Jr., he just confirmed.
on the dev day
and then I also
extended invitation to Shinobi
he hasn't confirmed but if
he does it's going to be interesting
Rockstar
is confirmed so he
will be reunited with
BTC place of
Emperor Nikola
who lives in Tokyo
yeah
and I don't know if
which the mempool.space which will speak but he kindly offered to host VIP dinner he did last
year too so this year also the VIP dinner was sponsored by it's gonna be sponsored by mempool.space
amazing and like the Japanese are such wonderful hosts it's such a great experience when you go
there so for people interested yeah reach out the link will be in the show notes and uh reach out
to taruko uh is there anything and of course it'll be mostly english or you'll have a mix of stages
to do how are you going to plan on that it's probably 80 english but we're going to have our
real-time ai translation on the screen so the language won't be a problem okay excellent well
Is there anything we've missed out here before I ask you the final question?
Yeah.
So if you are planning to come to like Tokyo or like Japan or Tokyo,
actually Tokyo Bitcoin base is not only co-working space.
It's going to be co-living space.
So we acquired a hotel nearby, like three minutes walk from Tokyo Bitcoin base.
So there is a hotel already there.
It's for group.
It's like, you know, up to like six people can sleep in one unit.
So it's like four groups or like families.
But we bought another one.
That's still, you know, land we have to build, you know, house.
But one, it's going to be a VIP villa.
It's going to be three-story traditional Japanese style with traditional Japanese garden.
It's going to be amazing.
and then also another one will be for like single you know traveler or like couple so it's going to
be smaller but more affordable so you know meta planet kind of gave up on the hotel business so
we are kind of taking oh my goodness i was gonna say so wait you're gonna have one more unit than
well one more property than the meta planet this is taking you back to your airbnb managing days
as well that's so cool so bitcoin co-working at uh uh bitcoin tokyo base soon well as well as
the one is already yeah operating but two we just bought the land so we have to build
the property so i would say uh march like spring 2027. wow so it's far away but it's gonna be great
Yeah, that's low time preference planning there. That's very, very cool.
One thing I noticed is, you know, after I spent like six, seven years in Japanese Bitcoin scene, I realized I'm convinced that nothing will happen within Japan.
It has to be, you know, come from the outside. So luckily, you know, Tokyo, it's very affordable now.
So like you or like anyone from like Western country can stay in Japan without visa up to like three months.
So, you know, they can actually work at Tokyo Bitcoin base and then live in one of those co-living space.
So if those people come and work there maybe Japanese will find it you know maybe you know talk to them and then learn about what going on and then get inspired That so cool You know their own version of Bitcoin business So for the young traveling Bitcoin nomads that are you know
living the sovereign individual or even families,
I know families are out there doing it as well.
I mean, we did it for almost three years.
We bounced around traveling.
We didn't have the Bitcoin options back in those days.
So maybe we should go again.
Yeah, of course you can pay everything in Bitcoin.
So, you know, you can live the Bitcoin standard.
Yeah, amazing.
So eventually our goal is to make a Bitcoin circular economy
around Tokyo Bitcoin base,
which is, you know, basically in the center of Tokyo.
That's like another 10 years, I guess.
Wow.
So what would you need?
you'd have to start grassroots programs getting getting the tourists that coming through to go
and ask the different merchants do you accept bitcoin do you accept bitcoin do you accept
bitcoin that's the but i think we are like japan it's not there yet people are still very skeptical
about bitcoin so what we are doing right now is because tokyo bitcoin base is not in a business
district it's in a quiet like really affluent residential area so you know we want them not to
be afraid of this bitcoin space like bitcoin that's going in and out of this building right
so on the um as our opening event we actually hosted like lightning fair it's very like kids
friendly event. So we like put out a lot of food and game stalls around the building, inside the
building, use them as kind of a bait for kids to come into the building. If kids comes in, like,
you know, parents, like mother has to come in too, right? So that was very successful. Those people,
like neighbors were kind of curious about what's this B mark, what's this new building.
And then they were like, you know, look into it, but never coming.
Even the door was open.
But that day, they finally came in and they thought, oh, it's really nice.
Also Bitcoin, it's just money, right?
Because I can buy this thing.
So, yeah.
So we are still kind of the process of legitimizing Bitcoin in the neighborhood.
so maybe like next year or the year after tourists can come and start orange building
I love it and also love the fact that uh you and I are having this conversation
during what it's like what's going on in Singapore right now the biggest shit coin conference I've
ever had the misfortune of laying eyes on.
I went on the website the other day because it came across my radar
and just looked at a list of the speakers.
Oh, my goodness.
What are these guys doing?
This is what we're up against.
All of the just flash money that pours into these events from VCs that are
just there to try and get the next big exit.
Oh, it makes my skin crawl.
but anyway final final question for you if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody
who would you give it to and why
wow that's tough question because by now i orange pulled everybody i care about
so
prime minister of japan okay there you go yeah because uh the japanese government actually
um endorsed um web three four years ago and then we they have we have like a web three conference
every year which is huge and it's funny to see like you know as a speaker like not like prime
minister of japan like minister of something minister of something minister and then next to it
there is a picture of like roger r
cz
yeah japan's still there
oh damn well they need a copy of your book maybe somebody who's listening to this might be able to
uh get a copy of the bitcoin standard in japanese in the prime minister's hands
and uh then we'll just let the orange pill do what the orange pill does you know that's uh
there's no stopping the mind virus so well taruko thank you for coming on it's been uh it's been
great uh great pleasure to get to know you a little bit better and looking forward to meeting
you in person one day and uh yeah caitlin had great fun with you guys over there and you know
learning about an app and uh what everything that you're doing she was very inspired and uh yeah
she's great she's just so like she fit in right away with the team yeah we had a really good time
and uh shout out to uh arata san as well uh who we met in riga and in helsinki who obviously doing great work with you guys over in uh in japan and uh yeah well that all left to say I put the links in the show notes for people to reach out to you
And yeah, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Well, there you go, everybody.
Thank you so much for listening.
And thank you, Tiroko, for coming on
and everything you're doing over there in Asia.
There's so much hard work going on there
that I hope people have listened to this
and being inspired because at the moment there's a lot of darkness around Bitcoin.
We have this big divide between developers and Bitcoiners.
We have divide over Bitcoin 29, version 29, core 29 or core 30 or Bitcoin knots.
And now we have a new Bitcoin improvement proposal 444.
for and it just seems like there's a lot of bad blood and ill feeling out there and people are
looking at the price when they shouldn't be there's a lot of distraction there's so much
distraction right now bitcoin treasury companies there's a new one spinning up every single day
and just please do not buy penny stonks just because they say they're going to use money that
they raise through printing shares to buy Bitcoin. That's not going to, that isn't a company.
Like that, that's a reverse IPO, a reverse takeover. They buy a shell company on a, on a stock
exchange and then print shares under a new name and say they're going to buy Bitcoin with it. And
people are just like, it boggles my mind. It really does. So please take heed and then do not
loan your Bitcoin to any loan product offering, especially the new ones that are now racing each
other to zero on the interest rates that they're offering you. I mean, within six months,
they've gone from 12.5%. I've seen a company now offering 5%. They're tripping over each other
in order to try and hoard your Bitcoin with this idea of, you'll never have to sell your Bitcoin,
bro just go and live your life and you'll get rugged your bitcoin will be gone as soon as
there's a price crash a flash crash you are stopped out it's swept it's over and you still owe the fiat
back with the interest so please just stay humble and stack sats and get inspired from people like
taruko that are building that are doing things she's translating books she's organizing conferences
She's helping a company reinvigorate itself by use of Bitcoin education and then using that as a platform to educate its customer base.
The conference, the Bitcoin living space that they're going to be doing over there.
It's incredible. I'm hoping to get over to Japan next October because I think that is when they're going to be doing BTC Japan in 2026.
So put that on your dates now.
But like I said, like we discussed here,
I think from the 23rd of November,
you got BTC Japan in Tokyo.
So if you're out there listening in Asia,
anyone in Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia,
wherever you're tuning in from,
get your tickets, get over to BTC Japan,
go and support the effort, get a discount,
use the code BITTEN, B-I-T-T-E-N,
get your 10% off.
I'm talking to you guys in Malaysia,
the people that hosted me and my family when we were in Kuala Lumpur
thank you so much
you know who you guys are
get over to Japan, see what's going on
if you're in the UK or if you're across Europe
it's very cheap to jump on a plane and get a flight over to Manchester
BitFest is 21st and 23rd of November
that's this month, we are just weeks away
use the code BITEN, B-I-T-T-E-N
and go check out the speaker list
than the show notes.
The same for BTC Japan.
Hit these links.
Just take a look.
I'm not getting paid for clickbait or anything like that.
I just want to help these guys get people to the conferences
and I want to help people understand how important the conferences are
and how it's going to change their lives when they get in front of people.
I've seen it myself.
I've felt it myself.
My whole family has felt it.
This is how we move forward.
So that's that little rant.
and the next rant is just buy bitcoin guys please stack stack some sats get over to relay r-e-l-a-i
r-e-l-a-i.ch forward slash bitten download the app across europe and start stacking today if
you're across the pond us swan bitcoin.com it is that simple take self-custody and take it very
Seriously, get over and look at the Bitbox, Bitbox O2 or Bitbox Nova, a Bitcoin-only hardware wallet brought to you by the team over at bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten.
Again, links in the show notes.
The code is bitten.
There's a bunch more links in the show notes over there, so go and check them out.
And I have not shielded them in a while, but Dave Bennett is doing great work on his podcast.
the Bitcoin and podcast is a daily show Dave brings you the news that you can use and he does
an incredible job shout out to my friend and fellow podcaster Dave love you brother support
Dave on Fountain and do your boosts do your streaming and yeah let's look forward to a
bright orange future thank you so much for listening I'll catch you on the next show