Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin
could mean for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show.
Thank you so much for listening.
many years of their lives have been going deep deep deep down the rabbit hole of the claim that
Craig Wright made to be Satoshi. They followed the story very closely and have been documenting
everything for years. This book is the first of three. This is how deep this story goes.
They take it all the way back and they really do not leave anything unturned. I'm really looking
forward to getting my hands on the book it's only just dropped and we recorded this about a month
ago so get out there get over to um what first of all connect with the authors once you've listened
to this and find out where to best buy the book and how to best support them uh right before we
get into the interview please make sure you're showing some support to the show sponsors uh relay
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go check them out there's no excuses if you want to start spending your stack and supporting
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in to the Nanya Bidness, Dave Bennett, Daily Show, who brings you Bitcoin and, and he's also
bringing you the Circle P, where you can start spending and supporting the Bitcoin economy.
It's a great podcast. Dave's been around for many years. He's doing some incredible work. And he's
been on this podcast twice so you can just go back and listen to those episodes just search
at none of business and we talked about uh the forest walker project which he uh has and uh
michael uh arbuscular mycorrhizzo and i'm sure i'm still saying that wrong but anyway they are
excellent rips thank you dave for everything you're doing on your side of the pond are you
using paywithflash.com to accept bitcoin for your goods and services it's very easy it's plug and
play just get over to paywithflash.com did you get to any of the conferences prague was excellent
riga was excellent helsinki was excellent we've got some coming up in the uk we've got one in
bitcoin uh very st edmunds and um towards the end of this month 20th of september and the end of
november manchester you have bit fest and if you want to visit the balkans get over to bulgaria go
look around sofia and hang out with the plebs over there incredible conference being put together by
the team over in bulgaria naku 2000's been on the show three or four times he's one of the organizers
there go follow him and hit the link in the show notes get signed up save yourself 10 on those
tickets. Find your local Bitcoiners. Orange Pill app is the place for you. You've got to get over
there. Find your local Bitcoiners. Find your local events. Start connecting with each other.
We've met a bunch of new people over these last few conferences we've been to and just spent
some lovely time in France with a couple of other Bitcoiner families. You need to find your tribe.
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all right guys we are recording nice to meet you both really excited to get into this one and a
shout out to uh jonathan beer who who put us in touch so we could go down this rabbit hole
deeper than i've ever gone down it before with two people that have completely uh enwrapped
themselves with this subject for the last handful of years so we'll get into all of that
but lauren as is tradition will ask you the first question who is craig wright doctor
you didn't tell me you just told me a name it's part of the joke don't worry
we could tell you who he isn't
yeah
yeah okay
he's not the creator of Bitcoin
we know that for sure
who he is I mean there's a very
long answer and a very short answer
I'll do the short answer
and Arthur can do the longer answer
so the short answer is
he is an IT security guy
from Australia
who claims he created Bitcoin
but did not create Bitcoin
that is the short answer
Yeah, he is most known for his failed attempt to become known as the inventor of Bitcoin.
He started doing that in 2014, but in exactly 10 years later, 2024, he was announced by court in UK that he is not the inventor of Bitcoin.
The evidence was overwhelming against him.
And in the meantime, he committed a lot of fraud.
He created a lot of forgeries.
He lied a lot.
and that's why we are now here together talking about this subject because the
the subject matter is quite substantial so lauren what do you think about that a guy
told everybody repeatedly told everybody he was satoshi and the creator of bitcoin
why would someone want to do that do you think that's that's what i was going to say i'm trying
figure out well why someone would lie that much when there's so much evidence that he's not but
maybe for more like publicity or like money or i don't know yeah i mean you towards the end of
this whole process which has been on going on for 10 years now that is how it sort of ended in in a
way it started with him trying to fool the tax office in australia by using using bitcoin and
using the name satoshi not not so much the name satoshi but using bitcoin he said he had to to
get millions of dollars off them uh illegally and in doing that he got himself into an absolute
pickle and ended up with him facing potentially criminal charges for tax fraud and at the very
least owing the tax office around i don't know so many arthur may not the exact figure but i forget
that but millions and millions of dollars about almost 10 million dollars or seven million dollars
and so he needed a way to try and get himself out of that jam and so he managed to convince
a very very wealthy guy that he was satoshi and that all this stuff he'd invented was worth
billions of dollars so he managed to use that lie managed to convince this guy he's a con man
fraudster he convinced this guy to lend him the money or to give him money to bail him out
and then he backed himself into a corner because he had to then prove it and they say well part of
the deal is you've got to prove your satoshi and he tried to do that knowing he could never do it
he failed to do that but they still believed him and so for the last nine years they've still been
pushing him to be satoshi to be satoshi to prove it to prove it to prove it until last year it
finally was proved once and for all that he's not satoshi so what started as a bit of a tax rip-off
turned into him desperately having to prove it because he they told him he had to and then it
turned into him trying to get millions or billions of pounds more through trying to trying to get
people to buy these licenses from him when he didn't actually own them that's that's the the
basis of this I think
yeah
shocking
alright okay
even a 14 year old
can see the
nonsense
yeah it's pretty
silly
silly thing to do
do you have any further questions
um
no
I can tell a little anecdote.
It's not really new.
This type of story pops up every now and then.
It reminds me a lot of this guy.
What was his name again?
I think in the 1920s or 1930s, who pretended to be the owner of the Eiffel Tower in Paris.
And he tried to sell it as scrap metal to scrap metal dealers.
And of course, he wasn't the owner.
and the council or the municipal office of Paris
was still, of course, the owner of the Eiffel Tower.
But he sold it to a scrap metal dealer.
I don't remember the amount,
but it must have been quite substantial.
And he ran away with it.
And he did it again a few years later.
He did the same trick again.
So yeah we have those funny fraudsters every now and then in our life Yeah they make for good anecdotes Yeah Victor Lustig was the guy
That's him.
That's him, yes.
Did he do the same with the London Bridge?
I don't think so.
I only know him from the Eiffel Tower that he sold twice.
I remember somebody sold the London Bridge to some rich American guy.
yeah they're all same type of story i guess yeah shocking shocking so they're called charlatans
lauren or congmen people who pretend to be someone they are not or something that they
are not to try and extract as much money out of people as they possibly can before disappearing
but this time craig got caught they're very convincing you know the amount of people that
we know that meet Craig in person before they know the story. And he convinces them, very
intelligent people, because he talks with such confidence, hence the con word. He talks with
confidence and authority about Bitcoin that it's like, well, he sounds like he knows what he's
talking about. A lot of the things he says, a lot of the words he uses, a lot of the terminology,
a lot of the passion he has with it, he must know a lot because he's saying a lot. But once you know
the story and once you know how to handle him, you can look at what he's saying and think,
actually he's talking nonsense that makes no sense it's just waffling and trying to sound
important so once you learn to cut through that then you can dismantle it but it's what you say
is completely right he he convinces people uh because he just he knows how to do it and he's
con men they know what to say how to say it to convince people that what they're saying is true
and it just isn't and it's very sad because uh just recently in the last few months i've met
people from what you might call the freedom movement or the truth of movement or sovereign
movement and they're all like they're convinced bsv is the real satoshi uh excuse me is the real
bitcoin and uh the craig is the real satoshi and the cabal were the ones that brought him to the
courts because they can't have the fiat system undermined and it's the cabal that are trying to
bring him to justice and uh it was the he had to leave australia because of uh an undue uh
unfortunate and unjust tax liability that uh you know it's it's unbelievable
but but it fits so perfectly with what they believe that's why it's you know it's not like
it had to be him it could have been anybody with the same with the same approach the same philosophy
the same backers and it would have been them it's just these people that believe a certain thing
and here comes this guy they fit together so perfectly oh here he is that's him and that's
what that's all there is to it is two ideologies or an ideology meshing with individual that meets
their needs and there they go right well we'll get into this now lauren thank you so much for
your questions thank you for answering thank you yeah so i think uh it's best okay yep i think it's
best if we just get a little intro into who you guys are so we can figure out how or why you were
both interested by this, whether you were bought into this through an interest in Bitcoin or what
you're... Take us through it. What brought you here today? Mark, we'll start with you.
Well, I got into Bitcoin in 2017. It was when I bought my first Bitcoin. And I had heard of
Craig Wright because of the headlines he was making. So I remember hearing about in late 2015,
I knew what Bitcoin was. And I heard about this guy. I was like, oh, this guy says he's a Toshier.
That's quite interesting. And then forgot about it. And then 2016, when he came out and tried to
prove it through the signing sessions and failed again, I was like, oh, it's that same guy. What's
he still doing? Again, thought nothing of it. Then when I got into Bitcoin in 2017, it was right at
the time of the Bitcoin Bitcoin cash war the split and of course Craig Wright was on the Bitcoin cash
side I'm gonna start to look into that I was like oh it's this guy again you know he won't leave me
alone so I did some more digging and I was like do people really believe this this you know and I
did some research into 2015 2016 I was like this just sounds like a cock and bull story it sounds
like nonsense but he's got all this massive following and then again I didn't think anything
of it and then in 2018 i started writing for a crypto news outlet and that's when he was sued
by ira klyman for uh you know billions and billions of dollars half of the satoshi fortune
and i did some more digging at that point wrote a few stories and i did some digging and i came
across this guy called arthur van pelt who had written all these massive long medium pieces on
the thing i was like god this guy knows a hell of a lot i'm gonna i'm gonna speak to him and at the
time we would just started doing our own podcast on on the for the website so he was one of my
first guests so i spoke to him with very little knowledge of what was going on and he really
opened my eyes to what the truth of the story was and the rabbit hole that it was and so we spoke in
depth and then the year afterwards when craig was uh told eventually it was discounted but he was
initially told to hand over half the bitcoin fortune i spoke to arthur again about that and
said well how you know how does this work and we went into it again and then a couple years later
we we stayed in touch about this and a couple years later i was thinking about it i was like
this story especially when when copa sued him in 2021 again we'll get into that but i was like this
story is so good so because i'm a writer you know i love stories and this is such an incredible
story there's so many people don't know about it has to be told but how do we tell a story that's
been so huge already it's mushroomed already how do you tell that story for a lay audience and keep
them interested and I've also always wanted to do a podcast um but I've never had a subject to do it
on and I was like yeah you know what this is the perfect story for a podcast so I spoke to us I was
like are you interested in working with me on this podcast we'll tell the Craig story in like six
episodes and we'll end the sixth episode um on in the present day on the day he starts the climbing
case which is what we did and we didn't plan it this way but we then once we finished that first
six telling the history we then just carried on month after month after month for like three more
years and it just because there was so much coming out just kept coming and coming and coming
and we had no idea 650 or 60 episodes oh yeah it was loads we did these bonus episodes and it's
kind of crazy so but even doing those we were like we still haven't told the full story yet so
there's still more to be told so I think last year or the year before I said look let's see if we can
get a book out of this so we started writing a book and I quickly said we're not going to fit
this into one book it's got to be two books so I started splitting into two books and I said to
Martha we can't fit this into two books either there's got to be three books so we're now writing
three books to cover the whole thing it's like 10 years of this massive fraud um so yeah that's so
that's where we are now so this thing is just is just as you said at the very start taking over our
lives now but um it's just he has helped us along the way so it's just an incredible story that
I've always wanted to tell since I got into it and fortunately we now can do that so you were a
writer by trade that's where you were coming from like yeah life yep so I'm a writer ghost writer
um I'll you know write anything for anybody I've written a whole bunch of books and a whole range
of subjects and still do today still get clients coming in today but the last three or four years
as well as that paid work.
I've been working on this Craig Wright project as well.
So yeah, I was thinking it was going to end at some point.
But yeah, generally, I am a writer by trade.
So it was just, I'm always on the lookout for a good story.
This is the best story.
And I was like, no one's covered this.
No one's covered this.
So it was just great to be able to be
at the forefront of this story.
Yeah, you couldn't have even written
a fiction story about it, right?
No one would have believed you.
Arthur, Arthur.
back it up for me where where are you from what was your what was your job your day-to-day
and uh and why were you already writing about this uh when when you were found by mark here
yeah i have a slightly different uh history i go back a few years more in 2012 i discovered
bitcoin i did my toe in the bitcoin arena in 2013 when i bought my first but i studied the
subject already I found it an intriguing project going on and somewhat of a step forward in 2015
I noticed that Craig Wright's person for a bit that was only on Twitter at that moment
he interfered with a few Bitcoiners and he pretended to be a bit of an
sort of expert about Bitcoin it didn't impress me much and it impressed no one actually but a few
weeks or months, I don't remember exactly, he suddenly popped up in Wired and Gizmodo.
That was in December. And then it was like, oh, he is, well, maybe a candidate. Okay.
That's funny. But rather quickly, I think already the same or the next day, several Bitcoiners
found out that his dox package, and I call it a self-dox package because I'm quite certain that
He doxxed himself to, he tried with several outlets before Wired and Gizmodo,
but it ended up that Wired and Gizmodo did the story and published it.
But it contained forged evidence and inconsistent evidence.
So I already had my big doubts and I did not see him as a really serious candidate
because, of course, over the years I've seen several other candidates.
from Newsweek, I remember, and other people like Nick Szabo,
and several people have been mentioned over the years,
and they all fail or they deny it, and then there is not enough,
Roland Sassam, don't forget about him either.
But anyway, in 2016, with the failed signing sessions,
I completely lost interest in him.
for me that was sealed signed and delivered not satoshi for me and i forgot about him basically
he was in the background doing things with bitcoin cash but i really didn't pay attention to it
and only in 2019 when he started to sue at first
now well i actually i already got a little bit interested in the sidelines into the climate case
that started in 2017 and I think it was early 2018 that I started to pay attention to it for a bit
just out of interest but in 2019 I was seriously diving into it I had time on my hands because I
stopped working I took all my saving I became Bitcoin consultant and I work here and there
as Bitcoin consultant, but I can make my own time.
I work from home.
I have two children to take care of.
So, of course, that takes some time away.
But it also leaves behind a lot of time that I can spend on subjects.
So every now and then I do Bitcoin projects.
But every now and then I spend a lot of time on Craig Wright also.
Not these days anymore because the story is a bit over And of course I helping Mark with the book but in 2019 that was a different story then he was suing people for Libel about a handful
and a few of them I considered yeah online friends like Adam Beck and Hodel Naut, Peter McCormack
I mean those are and have been always have been good online friends of me that I respect and
and cherish to have in my online circles.
And a few of them I actually met also on seminars and those places.
But then I started writing.
And yeah, as it happens, I've never been a serious writer,
but when I took the effort, I'm rather detailed.
So I go deep and I go long and I spit everything out and I turn every stone that I see and I want to know what's going on.
So it turns out that I think 90-95% of my articles are long forms, just like the Satoshi Affair of Andrew O'Hagan.
He wrote a long form after half a year of research.
I basically do the same.
I research something and I write a long form about it.
and if
I mean Mark has now been able
to put it in three books
if I take all my articles together I think I'm on
five or six books
but it's way too detailed
that's why I need Mark to be the ghost writer
of this whole
stuff I mean it's
98% his work
and I only do the proof reading
and some correction work
here and then and he manages to
make a coherent story of
what I do in many
I think I'm close to 50
articles now
they're all
deep dives into
if I take a forgery
I come up with 50 or 60 forgeries
so to say and I show them all
like what has he been doing now
again
you know things like that and when I take a
subject like his
just a random subject, supercomputers
he has been lying
and forging about supercomputers also.
Yeah, then nobody knew ever that he was lying about five supercomputers.
We always thought it was about two or three,
but it has been, if you dive into the story for a bit
and find out all the details,
he actually said one time that he had five supercomputers.
Now, yeah, those details.
He had five and invented them all, I'm guessing.
Is that the claim?
nah the claim is that he had them and that he used them as bitcoin supercomputers mostly for uh for
mining and and and for transacting and stuff but they were uh what i call uh potemkin villages all
they never existed it was just uh of course he had a few server racks uh on his table and uh he once
had uh or maybe even a few times he had the ato people uh visiting him and checking out on those
supercomputers but they quickly found out that it was uh yeah pulled from his ass just things that
oh right okay so for the listeners then um a lot of people might be new to this some
might not have even heard of him so in a nutshell uh he claimed to be satoshi nakamoto
and uh this was like really picking up steam around 2017 when the block size wars were going
on where there was a camp that wanted to increase the block size, the data that you can put
in each block.
And there was a camp saying no.
And Craig would have been one of the big blockers drumming that beat following in the footsteps
of Roger Ver.
That all becomes all of a sudden Bitcoin Cash because they fork off and go and do their
own thing.
then was there infighting there because out of that comes bsv bitcoin satoshi vision
yeah so to keep things it depends arthur can go into more detail but basically from from what my
research to keep things at a higher level craig wanted to push things further so they'd already
had this split with the big with the bigger blocks for bitcoin cash but craig says no we've got to
keep going we've got to keep going make them unlimited size make them gigabytes make them
this make them that so that was one aspect of it was he wanted to keep pushing further and further
and bitcoin cash was saying well no let's just let's take it easy mate calm down we'll do it
stage by stage and we'll do it slowly that was one part of it another part of it was that um i
forget what month it was now but but bitcoin cash wanted to wanted to introduce certain uh technical
facets to to change to tweak things slightly and again arthur can go to detail if we need to
but there's three or four things that they wanted to do that craig wright said no if you do that
you're going to basically break the blockchain you're going to you're going to screw it up we
can't do that and so that's when it started and then it all went from there there was no
they tried to well i don't even know if they tried to meet each other halfway it doesn't seem like
they did they just were two two egos you know at each other the whole time thought i could i can do
the best thing and went their separate ways and just had this this awful very very undignified
fight to try and see who could be the real bitcoin cash and then it you know all fell apart in the
late 2018 but from from my knowledge that's the high level of what happened there so where does
to be fair i would i wouldn't know too much detail about it because like i just said in 2016 i lost
completely interest the whole thing around bitcoin cash and bsv i followed it but i only let's say i
took the headlines and and read them but for the rest it didn't really really interest me only in
2019 I started to catch up
again
so what exactly happened in the details
why was
the only thing I can say is that in 2015
don't forget that
in 2015 Craig Wright
already met Roger Furr
and
there were talks
about or have been talks about
Roger Furr
helping Craig Wright in that era
because that was when he needed his money
the most for
the bailout of his tax issues in Australia.
And Roger Ver was interested to sponsor him
for a rounded amount of 2 million, if I remember well.
If it happened, I don't know,
but it has been rumored in that time.
I know.
But otherwise, we can only say that they became friends at least.
And until 2018, when they split up, when Roger Ver found out that Craig Wright was not really Satoshi Nakamoto, he didn't even know that, what was it again?
Checksum was coded in Bitcoin by Satoshi and Mr. Satoshi himself didn't know that anymore.
So, yeah, that's when Roger Ver was thinking, no, this guy is a fraud.
Where does Calvin enter the story? Because he was the big backer, right? He was the billionaire that was ready to go to war and back Craig and believed Craig to be Satoshi.
so that story goes back to late 2014 um and calvin knew about bitcoin calvin had known about
bitcoin since the very early days because obviously he's got a big gambling background
and he recognized early on what bitcoin could do for gambling uh and those and everything
surrounding that so he was he knew what bitcoin was and he knew he knew the promise of it
so then fast forward like four years later and he's looking for investments in the because you'll
very wealthy man billionaire by that point not so much now thanks thanks to craig um so he was a
billionaire back then and he was looking through these investments so he tasked a guy called
stephen matthews who was working for one of his other companies at the time with finding potential
investments for him in the apac region and again this is very murky because every time they tell
the story it changes so i'll stick to the facts that we do know him stephen matthews and craig
right reconnected in late 2014 just as craig was having his big issues with the tax office and
craig says look i'm in real trouble here i need to get access to money i need a hefty bailout so
i can pay the ato off and so calvin's looking for investment craig and stephan start talking
and however it happened stephan says to to calvin i've i know this guy that's a toshin akamosi you
know that bitcoin thing i know the inventor do you want to have a work with him see if we can
invest in him so Calvin's like of course yes really want to do that so they meet up in I think
it's April maybe May in 2015 and this is when as I said to the top Craig is very good at condensing
people who don't know better so him and Stefan Matthews pitched the Satoshi IP idea to Calvin
Air in in Calvin's house in Vancouver so you've got Calvin Air who knows what Bitcoin is knows
the potential you've got Stefan Matthews trusted friend who's been tasked with finding investments
for him and stephan matthews and craig wright know each other very well and craig wright's a very
convincing and and believable person if you don't know what you're talking about so you add that
all together and you can see very easily how they decided or calvin air decided he was going to seek
to put money into craig to monetize all this ip that craig has supposedly been working on with his
companies in australia for all these years to try and rescue it from the tax man so try and pay all
this money to bail out his issues with the tax man get all this ip bring it over to the uk and
we're going to start to sell the ip and do stuff with it so that's how that all got together is
calvin thinks that he's going to invest in craig put 15 million dollars it was i think into his
into him and his companies this new setup in the uk with the idea of selling the ip for billions to
Google, Microsoft, Apple, whatever, you know, a few years down the line.
So that's how that ball started rolling.
Wow.
What?
He backed him hard because I remember Calvin would go after on Twitter.
He would go after a lot of the Bitcoin maximalists who were calling out Craig.
yeah that was that was that was when in 2019 he started to uh to sponsor craig for the
for the liberal suits that's right yeah so to to get people up to speed there again uh i think
hodlernort was probably the the most well-known case here uh hodlernort an anonymous twitter
uh account well respected they've been around for for many years had some very good takes on
Bitcoin and had basically tweeted that he didn't believe, along with many others who didn't believe
what had been going on and that Craig was making, you know, spurious claims about being Satoshi.
And then all of a sudden he gets hunted down People were following him around He had basic either Craig or Calvin or between the two of them had used a substantial amount of money to get the identity of him
to be able to sue him for libel.
Yeah, I mean, this is where Arthur comes into the story,
but just to give you a quick, again, another anecdote,
to give you an idea of where they went to with this.
They hired a firm,
and they one of the guys in this investigation firm pretended to be the norwegian police the
oslo police and phoned up when they found out where hodlnacht worked the school he worked at
as a teacher they phoned the reception and said oh this is the oslo police we're working with this guy
um on a case and we need his address and phone number and the receptionist gave these details
out without thinking about it and then thought oh what have i done phoned him and said look i think
i've done something stupid i've just given your details out but you know you may be you may be in
trouble here and then that's when he put the phone down and then a few minutes later the guy phoned
him and said i know who you are you've got to sign these papers now so that's the length they went to
is pretending to be the police to try and to get his information from his workplace yeah wow yeah
that was that was one of the things but but what you also should have in mind is that over the
years when in 2015, Calvin
Air started to sponsor Craig
Wright first with an initial investment
together with
Robert McGregor, which I think
he was the face of
the whole thing in 2015 first
for around
15 million. But between
2015 and 2019, when
this liberal suits started to
play out, Calvin
Air invested tens, if not
a few hundred million in the whole thing
in coin-gene mining,
in CoinGeek, the website, in several outlets, in Enchain.
He hired a lot of developers.
He tried to set up at least a lot of apps and stuff.
So it has been costing him quite a lot of money.
So at some point, he got frustrated that Craig Wright,
either he couldn't sign,
and he wasn't still being recognized by the wider audience as Satoshi.
So, yeah, his stakes were becoming high, so to say.
Sorry, just to finish this off, I saw a figure recently.
It's really bugging.
I can't remember where I saw it, but it was from a reputable source
who put the figure of the amount of money Calvin has spent on Craig
and BSV and all the infrastructure as something like $700 million.
Yeah, I read that too, yeah.
I forget what the source was, but if that's true,
and I think the source is probably almost certainly right on that,
as a staggering amount of money for zero return, minus return.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
Wow, that's nuts.
And to have that single-minded faith, belief,
whatever you would call it, to be so narrow-minded
that you ignore what he's had to ignore to still believe this,
it's mind-boggling.
yeah it wasn't just us plebs on twitter like you know there was a this was a huge question mark
like you know it's uh 700 mil like wow i mean talk about digging yourself into a hole
so you you guys have said a couple of times like that you've mentioned the signing sessions so
again i want to keep people that might be new to this story up to speed with some of the
terminology that we're using uh what what do you mean by that uh because i guess the easiest way
to describe it would be okay if you claim to be satoshi just sign a transaction
and move you know some holdings from the genesis block to a new address
yeah basically it's an it's a technical way of uh using cryptography cryptography sorry um
with Bitcoin to prove your identity somewhat in real life
as being the owner of a certain address.
It's not directly a transaction.
It's more a public Bitcoin address that you take.
And what's easier than taking, for example, the Genesis block,
the very first block that Satoshi Nakamoto created.
I mean, there's no doubt whatsoever with anyone that Satoshi Nakamoto
owns and controls and must have the private key to the Genesis block because he created it himself
in January 2009. Then with that public address, you take a piece of text, a piece of random text
that you can make up yourself or ask somebody else to create for you. Like, I am Satoshi Nakamoto.
So hi, how are you doing?
And then you take the text, you put it in.
It's a tool.
It's a feature in the Bitcoin wallet.
Then you put it in a specific field.
And the last field is, what was it again?
Oh, yeah.
In the background, of course, you have the private key is being used.
And then you generate a so-called signature.
Then at that moment, you have created three elements,
the public address, the text, and the signature.
And you can give that to a random person all over the world
who can then also use on his local machine the same tool,
the signing verification tool.
It then becomes that if this person has given you the right signature
together with the right text and the right public address
of the Genesis block, for example,
then this person sending you that information has proven to be the owner of that specific public
address without giving away the private key to that address but by giving away the signature to
that address so to say combined with a specific piece of text
and it is
in Bitcoin circles
the most
important proof that you can
ask
from somebody who is claiming
to be Satoshi Nakamoto
well then sign one of your early blocks
well why not
one of your
there's 50 Bitcoin
of your belongings in
block 1, block 2, block 3
and it's on a public address
on that block
So why don't you sign one of those blocks
and then we are certain that you are Satoshi Nakamoto.
And yeah, that is for all the Bitcoin original gangsters,
all the OGs.
It's clear as day that that is the best way
of proving that you're Satoshi Nakamoto.
And of course, you can ask several other things
like emails from the old days and other things.
But signing is on top of everybody's list
of how to prove your satoshi so mark how did he he couldn't do this uh i even was it even
televised one of these sessions well yeah the dbc filmed it um so it wasn't it wasn't live or
anything but it was part of this whole package that these these pr people put together calvin
and robert mcgregor put this whole pr package together where he would be interviewed by
BBC, The Economist, GQ
he had features in their
magazines, he was
supposed to put out this public
blog post with the signature string
Arthur's talking about was supposed to let anybody
any of us plebs go and check the
signing for ourselves, this whole
bomb was supposed to drop on the 2nd of May
2016
and when it did
it was, the BBC
put their video out, GQ was later
but The Economist put their piece out
all this stuff went live um john matonis um gavin andresen both but because they'd witnessed these
signings they put supportive blog posts out but within minutes people had figured out it was a it
was a scam and it was just nonsense and the whole thing fell apart so quickly
you remember those days after
yes quite well but uh not only because i was there uh from minute to minute i followed it
slightly on the sidelines
but close enough to know
again immediately that okay
this is again not the proof
but one of my first articles
in that must have been
2018
or 2019 maybe 2020
somewhere but one of my first long
forms perhaps even
no not my first
maybe my second was
everything
happening about around
and inside the signing sessions.
Signing sessions debacle is one of my oldest articles
and still one of my favorites and also one of my favorites
because I can see that still people read it
because it contains all the information.
Everybody who was involved, all the emails,
all the inside emails I managed to find,
of course, mostly in the climate case.
that started in 2017.
There are a lot of the evidence popped up.
People involved in the signing sessions
have been coming out in later years or so.
Even Gavin Andrewsson retracted some of his stuff.
But most importantly were the emails,
the background emails
and that Ira Kleiman requested from that era.
So we even know that he was trained by specific companies to do it.
So he followed, I think, with two different companies,
media training and sessions.
Man, crazy.
It's wild.
And to think there's another quite famous video out there on the interwebs,
if anybody wants to go and find it, where he was at a conference.
I can't remember where it was, but he was being questioned very heavily by somebody in the first few rows.
And that somebody was Richard Hart.
Now, Richard Hart, at that point, was still a Bitcoin maxi.
And then he just went on and started his own shitcoin, which is called Hex,
and has done an awful job of pumping and dumping on retail and enriching himself, conning people.
It's wild. It's a wild, wild space.
there is a reason why i've earmarked him as the next person if i do if i do if i do more crypto
stuff after craig right he he's the next one there's a reason for that so back to craig 2019
2020 uh so we've got um yeah the hodl and all stuff yeah he's sued also uh peter mccormack for
for defamation or libel whatever keeps going to court he's in and out we all we're all following
this now pretty much. So when was COPA formed and what does it stand for? I couldn't remember
the acronym today. That's the Cryptocurrency Open Patent Alliance.
Open Patent Alliance. Right. I was looking for the P. So can you talk...
about how that was formed and how it was funded before we get to the court case well from what i
know in terms of in terms of how it was formed it's formed in september 2020 with i think coinbase
was maybe a founder square was maybe a founding company arthur may know more of them but there's
there's a good sort of four or five of them the idea the idea behind them was to create a um a
a collection of crypto related companies who could pull their patents and anyone who is a member of
COPA could you could rely on any of those patents to defend themselves if any of them was challenged
by sub by a patent troll in the space say so if you remember you can use any of the ones that are
in the pool to defend yourself you're not allowed to attack other people you can't litigate someone
through using those patents but you can defend yourself that was the concept and of course that
comes around at a time when craig and calvin and n chain are talking more and more about about
enforcing these patents that they've got so you know we we can't say for sure but it was a response
to n chains kind of posturing but you know it's it's it was timely let's just say that
yeah yeah and a bit later in 21 early 21 it was craig wright actually uh sending letters around to
Blockstream and several others
you are
using my copyright
and I do not agree
stop using my copyright or stop publishing
my white paper I think
it was also one of the things from
where it started
and
so they
went to Copa and they said
what shall we do with this and Copa said
we can send a friendly letter to him
and please prove that you're Satoshi
and then we might believe you and then we can talk business.
But we don't believe you in the first place, so come up with evidence.
And Craig Wright was stubborn at that moment
and that's why we can say that he called it upon himself.
He was the one being aggressive and he was the one not coming up with the evidence
and he knew beforehand that he would be sued because COPA,
one of the parties in Copa
indeed is Coinbase
and Coinbase is at times
a very aggressive litigator
so Craig Wright
had no idea what was coming
towards him or he had
maybe because at some
point he said that he wanted it
to happen like this
but of course he didn't want because he
lost it bigly
in the end but
at that time he was
requested to come up with evidence he refused
And then two months later, I think it was only two or three months between the first letter of Craig Wright to a few parties.
And a few months later, it was already Copa suing him for basically not owning copyrights and not being Satoshi Nakamoto.
Yeah, I remember now.
And there's an interesting story here as well.
because what he was trying to basically say
was trying to trademark the white paper
and copyright it as his own work.
And I even believe he started suing developers
or even just websites that had,
any website that had the Bitcoin white paper published,
he was going after because it was in his eyes
through the whole scan it it was copyrighted to him well do you remember the do you remember the
u.s copyright thing no go ahead he so in in 2019 he he uh wrote to the u.s copyright office and said
i want you to grant me copyright over the bitcoin white paper and so then when these headlines come
out saying craig writers copyrighted the bitcoin white paper in the u.s i mean the price of bsv
like tripled like within minutes you know it's just because people fight oh my god he's he's got
he's got it but of course over the coming over the following days it turned out he'd been granted
nothing because all you have to do is for to grant to be granted a copyright the type that he had it
wasn't granted he applied for he said this is mine i wrote the bitcoin white paper i demand copyright
they said are you satoshi nakamoto he said yes they said okay then well there you go
that was it that was it there's nothing else needed um and so they wrote and said look anyone
can do this you you can claim copyright over almost anything really if it's not been copyrighted or
even if it has been copyrighted already you can try until someone sues you and you lose you've got
a valid claim so therefore arthur as i'm sure he'll say and a few others jumped on board so within a
few weeks you've got five or six people who've all claimed copyright as well because until they
sue each other they've all got equally as valid claims so anyway so craig gets what he thinks is
this copyright and that he thinks allows him to sue to to sue uh to write to bitcoin.org and
bitcoin uh i forget the website that was there bitcoin core.org i think it was or something
and square and these companies anyone like you say any website big company hosting the white paper
i've got copyright i've got proof i've got copyright take it down now some of them did
some of them didn't but obviously that's what started the copa situation so you applied for
copyright as well, Arthur?
Yes, I did.
Mine was granted in May
2019, while Craig's was
and he paid $800
because he did
a speeded up
process that
costed him extra, so it would be
granted within days
and I had to wait for a few
weeks. So mine was in April
because I think I did it
the next day when Craig Wright mentioned
that he would be doing it or had
just had done it and I was like oh but I can do that also but and I still I will always say that
my registration of the copyright on the white paper only the white paper in this case is
is not false it's not fraud because that is what many people claim that my registration is
a fraud because would I own copyright on the Bitcoin white paper?
No, I did not write it, of course. But what happened on the
13th of December in 2010, it was
one of the last day that Satoshi was
doing something in public for Bitcoin on the forums and on
the open source, what was it? Still SourceForge
I think back then.
And one of the things was handing over copyright of everything, the source code and the white paper, to the Bitcoin developers.
That is actually a noted and provable action that happened on SourceForge on the 13th of December.
A lot of people don't even know that this happened.
And Craig Wright, of course, never knew that such a thing happened.
And so he thought that that was for many years, that was his story and probably still is,
that copyright was taken from Satoshi Nakamoto in 2011 when it moved from SourceForge to GitHub,
which was, by the way, also an action that was approved by Satoshi Nakamoto to Gavin Anderson,
but also something that Craig Wright never knew that there were in the background,
those type of talks between the developers but back to the copyright that means that when you are
either a wannabe or a real bitcoin developer and i pretend to be a bitcoin tester
so i do i help with development of of bitcoin of course very small but i'm doing this since 2013
seriously and I've been also in talks with developers back then so yeah I although I've
never signed a paper I don't have a contract I don't have a but I do help with the testing
of core software and updates and things well I have been doing that lately I'm not doing that
so much anymore.
But on that base, I told the copyright office,
I am part of the group of Bitcoin developers
mentioned in the, and rightfully mentioned
in the license.txt file, part of the source code.
So here you go.
I have a legit claim on the copyright
because it says in that license text
that the copyright is now owned of the source code
and the white paper attached to it belongs to the Bitcoin developers,
and I am one of them.
So my registration is legit.
Nobody ever complained at the office.
Maybe they didn't listen, but I think they did.
Well, actually, I'm quite sure they did,
because otherwise they would have asked me,
like they asked Craig Wright,
are you serious about this?
And they even wrote two press releases in 2019
telling the audience why it was not on them
to do an inquiry into Craig Wright's claims.
No, I never had those issues, to be fair,
because my story was, I guess, rather solid.
Yeah, well, there was a fun project that come out of this. I'm not sure, maybe you guys have never seen this, but in response, there's an artist, Bitcoiner, called Dim Zion, and he started knee-jerk reaction to this claim that Craig had copyrighted the Bitcoin white paper and anybody hosting it on their websites had to take it down or face being sued.
he started the Bitcoin voice paper
and he started assembling us all
that were willing to come into the project
in a telegram group.
And before you know it,
we had hundreds of Bitcoiners
each reading one line of the white paper,
which he turned into the voice paper
because you can't sue the spoken word,
freedom of speech.
So anyone can go and watch that.
It's on YouTube
or go to dimzayan.com forward slash voice paper.
And we've got all kinds of people in there.
Even Lauren, even Lauren reads a line from the white paper.
Oh, nice.
I'll have to send you guys the link.
You'd really enjoy watching.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Please do.
It rings a bell, by the way, but not really loud,
but I remember this happened, yeah.
Yep.
Even, well, Max and Stacey are on there.
uh michael saylor um i think jeff booth lynn alden all these kind of guys uh matt o'dell
uh you know it was um yeah it was it was a great great project giacomo of course all the names that
you'd be familiar with it's it's a fun watch so i'll send you the link after this so you guys can
watch it uh so then fast forward let get to let get to the meat and potatoes the circus the absolute circus that was the court show the courtroom drama i i you had to apply for a link from memory you applied for a link from the magistrate court or
whatever and they supplied you the live feed i don't know about you guys well obviously you
watched hours of it i lasted five minutes and i i just i'm i'm out i can't watch this guy talk
any longer uh you know it took me well just on that point before we get into the bulk of it it's
interesting you should you should say that because i got to a point i think i sat through his first
seven days on the stand without not no problem but i made it through and when he came back to
first or second time i i couldn't i couldn't cope with it i had to mute him um because as soon as he
went off on a rant i had to mute it knowing i would catch up later i just could not bear to
hear his voice anymore so when he was going when he when he started to veer off into a tangent i
hit mute and come back when he was answered ask the question again so i had the same experience
i got i reached my threshold in the end i i think the uh i think everybody in the courtroom did
including the judge and including the uh the barristers right yes i think so yeah yeah yeah
yeah now you're talking about the performance during the copa case i guess right
because there was also
a few years earlier in the climbing case
there was also
a live show
I didn't see any of that
I'm just talking about the most
recent one
the one which ended it all
I will never forget
the moment that he was questioned
about the unsigned
integer
that was box office
go ahead
explain
oh that was for me the moment that my jaw dropped on the floor i think it was not
was it during the first one of those seven days it was because alexander gunning took over for the
last the afternoon of the last day so he'd have like six and a half days of being like gently
death by a thousand cuts by jonathan hoss and then alexander gunning came in like a like a
bulldozer and just like steamrolled him oh that was amazing when he was asked uh that that whole
i think it all happened in like half a minute not even one minute i think and it was like whoa
that was top of the shelf not only comedy but how how to burn and and and wannabe satoshi to the
floor. He was asked about code and Satoshi made code. I think between three or 400 times,
he used an unsigned integer in the Bitcoin source code. And he was asked, but what does that mean?
what does that do and craig wright was uh yeah well i don't know how to explain
and his normal babbling and mumbling and he he went silent and i still remember because i was
also watching the the video there was also for um for those who were interested and they became
more and more and more i think at some point there were more than 1000 people watching the video
lake of
the courtroom.
And I was one of them.
And I still see he was raising
his hand and he dropped his
hand and he was completely lost.
And then it ended up that
this lawyer guy
or
no, what's his name?
They have a special name. The barrister.
Yeah, name
King's Council.
Oh yeah, KC.
Yeah, the KC guy.
went to explain from a book C++ for dummies
and show him what an unsigned integer is doing.
Oh, my God.
And then you're supposed to talk with Satoshi.
Oh, my God.
This was, for me, one of the most brilliant moments
during the whole, well, let's say the Copa show,
how he was burned down to the floor.
was there any moment that anybody thought that
my worry was because you never know what's going to happen in a in a courtroom right you just have
no idea and if they had gone the other way and judged him incorrectly did you ever have any
worry because the the evidence that was mounting up was just so ridiculously one-sided
I mean it's funny because I think a lot of people especially American viewers they were expecting
the typical American courtroom drama where there's a jury and the jury knows nothing about the case
and it's presented and it's back and forth back and forth it's objection objection they were
expecting all this and what they didn't realize because they had didn't know or they hadn't
bothered to learn was that 90 percent of this had been done in the years beforehand they were like
why is Craig not testifying?
He was cross-examined for seven days
because he'd had the last three years
to put his witness statements across.
So Koper asked him a bunch of questions
to explain his Satoshi history,
his evidence, all this sort of stuff.
What have you got?
And through like 10 witness statements
and all this evidence,
thousands of pieces of evidence,
that was his testimony,
this big chunk that took three years
to be put to Koper.
And the trial itself was Koper
questioning him on what he had sent them so asking him to explain himself so that's that's why there
was no no um uh examination by his own lawyers because he'd done that already through three
separate law firms it has to be said and so so we got to the trial and it was just a case of
yeah like can he does he have any excuse for what he's put forward and we had a debate amongst
ourselves once it finished and as we know spoiler alert justice met have ruled from the bench that
he was in Satoshi but we look back and we said well what was Justice Meadow thinking on day one
because was he thinking right I've been I've been doing this for three years now this case there's
no way this guy is Satoshi he's the only chance he's got is if his excuses are so good that he can
undermine what they have said what they've put forward as debunking his evidence and his arguments
um or was he genuinely you know yeah it's a it's a fair it's a good argument but let's just wait
and see 50 50 you know that that dictated where the trial went and i am so certain that he went
into that trial knowing craig rike's character inside and out knowing his history knowing what
he'd put forward and how much rubbish it was knowing how it made no sense whatsoever how it
was a pack of lies and he was just seeing if there's any way that craig could come up with any
any rational excuses and once he heard the excuses he was like nah this is this is nonsense and it
amazed me that after
every single day, his
supporters were still saying, wow, did you see
him today? He was on fire. He burned
them to the ground. No, what are you
talking about? But again, that goes
to the perception. That's the Calvin
Air Tunnel vision of only hearing what you want
to hear. And it was
obvious to everybody else that this was
probably the most one-sided
court case that I think
Chattis Mellor has probably ever, ever had
to rule on.
Yeah, probably, indeed.
shocking that it what i mean i guess hats off
seven days of listening to that yeah and then he came back because so seven the seven days covered
um the first the the evidence he'd handed across between 2022 whatever it was and 2023
um and then he came back because he introduced a bunch of evidence right before the trial
and the COPA expert had to examine that
while at the same time as Craig's giving his testimony,
they're examining this latest batch of evidence
that he's been allowed in.
So he comes back on the stand again
to try and face that down and to explain that.
And I have a feeling he also,
well, I know for a fact,
he also committed some perjury and some forgery
during the trial to explain another bit of evidence
that went against him.
And so I think if I'm right,
he was called back a second time
to face even more questions on that.
And that was when it just,
the conspiracy theories just became absolutely outrageous.
And that's when I started to switch off.
So he had a seven days and he came back twice
to face later allegations after that.
Yeah, wasn't there some like really poorly faked emails
or something?
Rings a bell now.
Arthur, I'll let you,
you'll maybe be better on those details than mine.
It's already one and a half years ago.
there was first
it was about all the
the forgeries that were
handed over during
the case but before the trial
oh
I remember
the Papanema emails
were before the trial
started weren't they
yeah that was one thing
and then
the second thing was
the
what was it, lawyer, Ontier
the Ontier email thread
that was forged, spoofed
the myod accounts
where
even Ontier
was willing to send a friendly
letter to the judge, it wasn't
us, judge
yeah, I'm looking back
now because my memory is
but BitMEX research, obviously
we're following it as well
and there's a tweet here
6th of Feb
2024
Craig's own barrister
presented this remarkable letter to the court
as evidence Craig's former lawyers
on TA LLP stated
that an email provided by Craig's wife
is not genuine
his own lawyers
yeah and it's
funny because he had been
bad mouthing them before the trial
during the trial he bad mouted them
and they were I'm sure waiting
for some kind of revenge they could take.
And he just opened the door for them
and let them walk through and kick him in the nuts.
It was fantastic.
But it's what you get, you know,
it's what you get if you behave like that
and then you piss people off and they'll retaliate.
He's got no excuse.
Have you ever met him, either of you?
No, we hoped to because we both went down
to the contempt of court hearing in London
last year, last December.
And we hoped more than expected he was going to be there.
But he was a no-show there.
But no, otherwise, we haven't had that pleasure, unfortunately.
So the contempt of court, that was after he had been,
the case was closed and you are not Satoshi.
Then he was sued again, I believe, by COPA for contempt of court
for lying in court openly.
It was a breach of the injunction.
So he lost the COPA case.
And the outcome of that was, because initially,
So, Kopa wanted injunction to say,
you are not allowed to call yourself Satoshi Nakamoto.
But quite rightly, his counsel said,
well no that against freedom of speech You say me if he goes to Hyde Park corner goes to Speaker Corner in Hyde Park and says I not I Satoshi he can be arrested you can do that so they said okay well he he not allowed to litigate based on the facts on the argument he Satoshi Nakamoto or he created
Bitcoin so he can't sue people in any court in the world or the commonwealth when it would have been
that he's Satoshi um and he uh there's like a bunch of other things as well but that that was
the core one was that he's not allowed to litigate based on that on that notion so then he shortly
afterwards started these champagne passing off cases where he sued these company, Bitcoin
companies, developers, a bunch of people for hundreds of billions of dollars, claiming
that they were passing off Bitcoin as BTC when Bitcoin was really BSV because it adheres
to the original principles, blah, blah, blah.
But in that filing, he had alluded to the fact, the idea that he created Bitcoin, because
if you are suing somebody to say you're passing off this thing as something else,
you have to have a vested interest in that thing to bring the case.
So he's saying, you're saying that Bitcoin is BTC, but it's not.
It's BSV. And I created BSV. So that's why I'm suing you.
But in saying that, he breached the injunction.
So by virtue of the court case alone, he breached his injunction.
So Copa said, well, come on, mate, you've breached your injunction within a few months there.
sued him for contempt of court on that basis
we all went down there, he didn't show up
open and shut case
and so he got, I think
do you remember the sentence after?
it was 12 months suspended or 18 months
suspended for 12 or something
yeah, I think one or two years
what is it called?
well, it was a suspended sentence
it was a drug term
yeah, that's the name
I think it was 12 months or 18 months
suspended for 12
yeah the jail time
for I think a year
or 6 months or 12 months
jail time
if he is doing it
again in the upcoming
2 years
so if he does the same thing
again he would go to jail
if they can get him
yeah
does anybody know where he is?
like has he completely disappeared since i mean he didn't show up for that court case
all he has said is he's in asia he won't say what country but we can assume it's one that
hasn't got an expedition to the uk that's that's all we know because there's still there's still
the cps that the crown prosecution service is still looking at the the perjury charges so
at the end of the trial justice meller said right i'm going to refer like the the amount of forgery
because he forged or there was over 500 pieces of evidence he was accused of forging,
both like for Copa trials specifically and used in evidence from previous cases for that.
So you've got this 500 plus pieces of evidence he's forged, manipulated or what have you,
plus the perjury, the lines he'd hold on the stand.
You've got all that combined.
So Justice Miller said, because of this scale of the perjury,
I'm going to refer you to the Crown Prosecution Service for criminal action.
and so that's why he then skid out to Asia fairly quickly so the CPS is still looking at this case
to see whether they're going to bring charges against him and so so for the contempt of court
thing if he were to breach that is that an extraditable offense we won't know until we get
there but if he is picked up for perjury by the crown prosecution service then there's every chance
that that's an extradition worthy offence.
So they could go after him for that.
What a mess.
And yet BSV still lives.
This is just the absolute insanity of it.
Like I said earlier,
there are people out there still shilling it,
openly shilling it.
Either they are complicit
or completely and utterly, totally brainwashed
and in so deep that they've just got to keep the narrative.
Otherwise, you'd go insane, right?
Nobody likes realizing that they've ever been tricked
or taken for a fool,
and especially not when it's a lot of money involved.
i mean there's there's people who swapped on the on the advice of craig wright and calvin and the
rest of them swapped their bitcoin for bsv in 2018 2019 the whole one which is well we i'm sure
there's some that did there's some that properly drank the kool-aid and swapped it all out and then
they just watched it plummet while bitcoin is skyrocketed so you can understand their anger
but i don't understand why that anger is directed at bitcoin and not at craig that's what i don't
get it's like why why are they so wedded to him can you not see the damage that he has done to you
but they refuse to it's um it's wild as well that uh i don't know what metrics they're using at the
moment to to uphold the you know the existence of bsb but just look at the price guys the market
has decided i mean i don't know the price of a bsb coin i think it's about 30 bucks now i think
happy to look yesterday or even this morning perhaps 30 30 30 31 so at the time of the split
they were of equal value now bitcoin is 104 000 and bsv is at 30 but they still believe that to be
the real bitcoin and it's going to have bigger and better and faster transaction time and better
blockchain you know it's wild yeah the code that people the more money because if they keep pumping
money into it it will still it will still survive it will still survive it's like a zombie eating
eating dead flesh it will still survive it just keeps going because the money keeps being put
into it and this is one of the big questions is how much is calvin air still really involved you
know he says he is but he hasn't mentioned craig's name once in any tweet since the day craig was
found guilty or whatever you want to say um he he hasn't mentioned craig's name once in a tweet so
he's divorced himself from craig completely he still says he's involved in bsv but is he really
you know this is the big question is how involved is he is he looking to sell the whole thing off
and just put it in the past we don't know yeah i mean he needs to dump his bags on someone
yeah yeah yeah i mean there's the whole terror node i mean they've been promising terror node
for years, haven't they?
And they seem to think that when this Terranode launches,
it's going to solve all their problems because they have to.
They have to believe that.
So when it inevitably...
This is a new word to me.
What the hell is Terranode?
Oh, Arthur, I'll let you explain what Terranode is.
Just with a straight face, but with a straight face, please.
I'll try.
It's Vaporware.
Sorry, it's a new project.
um nay it is something that has been announced uh for probably four five years now already in a row
uh it is a spin-off of what uh craigwright has been doing supposedly in 2015 with the
supercomputers uh which is basically a sort of a bitcoin node that can handle no yeah bitcoin
next level scaled
till the moon and back
so to say. So it is
supposedly capable of handling
around
2 million transactions
per second
just to say something
and massive blocks
way bigger than the current
max blocks that we see. I think it's
4 gigabytes and
yeah it's
supposed to be Bitcoin next level
and BSV next level then.
But yeah, they have announced it
as something that is coming up.
It was supposed to come three years ago,
two years ago, last year, this year,
and it's still not coming.
It's only being rumored that it's ready.
It's being tested.
Performance figures are being mentioned.
And yeah, we don't know.
It might come.
I think it's an actual project of Enchain, or the remains of Enchain,
because Enchain is not the company anymore as it was a few years ago
when they still had, I think on top, they had between 200 and 250 developers.
I think they don't even have one-fifth of that currently.
Maybe even one-sixth or one-seventh of that is only there.
but yeah they're working on something called
TerraNode the new
BSV node
it's coming
you know that
yeah exactly but
the thing we liken it to you know there's
that image of that North Korean highway
where there's like 16 roads and 5 cars
on it it's like that
because if you're going to put this massive
infrastructure in place you've got to have a purpose
for doing it they've got no customers
there's no customers Calvin's always promised enterprise coming soon never turned up like
governments never turned up so what is the point you know the the brand is so tarnished by now
through Craig through Calvin even though they've gone you know or they're divorcing in the process
of divorcing it's still there there's it's still tainted no one's gonna no one of any repute is
gonna touch it even even even the tech is crap because it has been 50 percent 51 percent attacked
several times successfully a few years ago.
I mean...
If anybody is listening to this
and it's made it to your ears
and you are invested in BSV
and you've been led up this garden path,
truly I am sorry that that has happened,
but it is definitely time for you
to just wash your hands of it.
And the unit bias aside,
I know it's going to hurt to sell BSV
and you might have hundreds of that coin and end up getting 0.0014 of a Bitcoin or whatever it might
be. Just forget the unit bias that there is only one game in town here. And this is why people like
myself and the other podcasters and people like you guys call us toxic Bitcoin maximalists,
if you like but but rather be called that than a fucking charlatan and that's why we're so damn
straight with people that we you know when we start getting into these conversations with
with crypto bros like it is you know tolerance zero absolutely zero i've seen too many people
get wrecked i i got caught up in it myself you know everybody's hands up here 2017
messing around with Litecoin and Dash and Ethereum
because I didn't know better.
I did not know better.
I come from that type of background.
I was Bitcoiner between 2012 and 2014, 2015.
Indeed, around the times when Ethereum came up.
I was interested in it, to be fair.
I even made good money on it.
I have to be really fair here It was part of the stash that I had that made my early retirement possible It was actually not Bitcoin It was mostly Ethereum that made it possible
But in around 2018 or 2019, I stopped being interested in it
because then I was looking at the real long-term figures.
Oh, man, I've even been to...
I still have some sympathy for Litecoin.
Don't get me wrong.
but I don't call myself an altcoin fan anymore
although I still I will never attack Litecoin too much
I mean I have some sympathy for it
from back then I went to a seminar in America of them
I met the guy himself a few times
I shake his hands I'm on a photo with him
I was smiling I was happy to see him
and he is a friendly guy
I mean, but when you really think of it since 2019, when I looked at the figures, when I think what is signal and what is noise, the only thing signal is Bitcoin.
All the rest is noise.
And then it's really everything is noise.
So I consider myself a rather hardcore Bitcoin only fan.
And I can be very critical about several projects.
indeed you mentioned the hex but also xrp uh the soul ada all those things oh man don't get me
started but uh yeah yeah that's how it goes but you can see that what i think if you look at the
waves over the years we have seen three or four massive waves that started when i i was interested
in one of those waves, the ICO
waves of 2014,
2015, I think, around that time.
Later you had the NFTs,
you had the ordinals,
and then all those
bullshit stuff that
was creating
thousands and tens of thousands,
and we're now running into probably more
than 100,000 of
altcoins and shitcoins
and whatever
utility tokens we all
have. But it really
it doesn't interest me anymore.
It's only making me tired.
And when I pull up the graphs of it,
when I sometimes I talk with,
now we have this lately
and it's dropping already like a bomb
for the last year, I think.
Caspa, something called Caspa.
It was supposed to be the Bitcoin killer.
And I got interested in Caspa for a bit
because one of my followers who I,
for the period of time, I like him
and I sympathized with his struggles with BSV.
And then he went from BSV to Casper
from one shitcoin to the other.
And I was like, oh my God.
I follow it for a bit,
but I would never invest in it, never.
Okay, guys, we'll start winding it up.
And thank you for coming on.
Thank you for your work and doing this deep dive
and everything that's going to come from it,
the three books.
I'm looking forward to those dropping.
Give us a timeline on that
and then I'll ask you the final question.
Well, this is a draft copy,
proof copy of book one.
So I've just got my hands in this last couple of days.
So that's what it looks like.
So Fake Toshi, Fraud, Lies, and the Battle for Bitcoin Soul
is out.
We're hoping next month,
at the moment we're having the audiobook recorded right now.
so once that's done we can look at a release date we're hoping for next month though all being well
and then we're going to release volume two either planning to volume two next year and volume three
the year after so one per year the first book here covers um craig wright's uh origin story if you
like so uh these early years up to 2013 2014 that one finishes so you've got the companies he ran
the ato scam that he ran and also covering his bitcoin creation story and pulling that all apart
as well so that's what that first one covers second one's going to cover the uh the doxing
the signing sessions and the creation of bsv and then the third one focuses on the lawsuits so
that's how we've broken those up so uh yeah hardback paperback ebook audiobook all coming out
next month love it fake toshi what i mean that name stuck right oh yes brilliant all right so
if you guys had one last
orange pill left to give to somebody
who would you give it to and why?
I'll let you go first
I think
Oh, there's only one thing
this whole thing
has only been possible because of
you mentioned him already, Mr. HODLNAUD
my
Oh, I think we lost him
We just lost him, yeah
Okay, well I've had an idea
So if you're meaning who's the last person we want to convert,
I'm going to actually combine two and one.
I'm going to say...
Oh, hang on, Arthur.
Arthur, you dropped out.
Sorry.
Just to make sure you understood the question correctly,
if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody,
who would you give it to and why?
I.e. somebody that doesn't have the orange pill,
doesn't understand Bitcoin, but you would like...
Oh, sorry, sorry.
Yeah.
sorry i was thinking that i should honor somebody if i if i want to orange pill someone yeah
oh dear then i have to think uh maybe mark hunter no i know about bitcoin already
yes but do you own some not anymore i don't actually i'm all i'm all out i had to sell it
i'm gone unfortunately he lost it in a boating accident okay so all right yeah okay good nice
nice one you would like for mark to take the orange pill that's very very nice of you mark do
you do you have uh yeah i think i think i'm gonna i've got to say my parents so they could actually
understand what it is that i do because i've been trying since 2017 to get them to just get a brief
understanding of what i of this world that i'm working in and that i'm living in but they they
they it's a generation thing they just don't get it and i've tried to explain it and they just don't
get it so i would like to have them understand the benefit of bitcoin why it exists why it's not just
you know vaporware as arthur said that the bsv is and just to get give them an inkling as to why
i do what i do and why i'm in this space because years of banging my head against a brick wall
hasn't worked yeah yeah many of us are in that same boat my friend so how can people reach out
if they would like to get a hold of you and uh follow you on twitter or nosta what was the best
place um so for me personally i am at 20 nothing zero zero on twitter that's my only social media
and the podcast itself the dr bitcoin podcast that started all this is at dr bitcoin pod on twitter
the podcast is still out there
dating back to 2021 so you can go and listen
to those old episodes again if you want to have a nice
recap of the story
perfect, Arthur
I'm mostly on
Twitter, access they call it now
but I refuse to use that name
on Twitter I'm
very simple to find
Arthur underscore
van underscore
P-E-L-T
and then you can easily find me and connect
with me, I'm rather open
almost every day on Twitter.
And I'll see you there.
Perfect.
Well, thank you both for everything you've done
and thank you for coming on.
Been a pleasure.
Thank you.
And cheers.
See you guys.
See you.
Well, there you go, everybody.
Thank you so much for listening.
And thank you again, Mark and Arthur,
for coming on and for all of your hard work
over the years following this story.
I am sure many of you listening already had kind of the basic details down, but have probably learned something very new here today.
And you likely have some friends that might still be kind of embroiled in this idea that BSB is the Bitcoin, Satoshi's vision.
it's very hard it's a hard realization to come to when you have been
completely lied to conned tricked fallen into a trap it's not very nice at all
I'm sure many of us have experienced this and it could be you know from being sold a dodgy
second-hand car all the way up to just a straight up financial scam of which I've been a victim
and it's it's the hardest moment that's the hardest moment the realization and the kind of
mental gymnastics that you play with yourself to kind of you know make all of these theories up in
your mind that no it couldn't be true and you just keep wanting to carry on believing.
Even though the evidence being you're looking at the smoking gun, you're looking down the barrel
of the smoking gun and you're still unable to see it. It's an awful awful place to be.
So I hope you do share this with not just people in BSV but any shitcoin. This goes for any shitcoin.
any of them
they have a founder
who's claiming to be someone
or something
like the next best
and creating the next best whatever
and yeah you can put Vitalik in this
in this group of people
he's leading
people down a very
very dark dark path
to ruin
and it's been going on for many many years
and as our good
friend Saifadain
coined it.
Ethereum is the mother arsehole
from where all shit coins spring.
I just still
love that one's safe.
So yeah, if it's not Bitcoin, it's a shit coin.
It's that simple.
It couldn't be any simpler than that.
So please keep pushing that message.
It's not a toxic thing to say.
It's the truth. The truth is not toxic.
It just cannot be
by definition. So just speak your truth.
and just keep trying to educate as many people as you can.
And thank you again, Arthur and Mark, for all of your hard work.
Like I said at the beginning here, there's so much work that's gone into this.
The books are being released.
And as we speak, and the first one is available,
they will have number two and number three dropping over the next 18 months or so.
I'll have a link in the show notes.
Please follow them on Twitter.
Reach out to them in their DMs if you're interested in getting them onto your own podcast
or furthering a discussion anyway.
And finally just keep stacking your stats.
You've got Relay across Europe, R-E-L-A-I.CH.
forward slash Bitten.
Swan Bitcoin across the pond in the US,
swanbitcoin.com forward slash Bitten.
Like I said at the beginning here,
Bitbox have just dropped their brand new hardware wallet,
the Nova edition, it is a very,
sweet piece of kit it's all updated it's uh it's got a bunch of new security features
but uh more importantly do your own research make sure you're taking self-custody very very
seriously as we go into this next four to eight years of complete and utter craziness i mean
across europe they're talking about now the cbdc is going to be ready for october this is nuts
stack your bitcoin get it in self custody please guys come on step up if you haven't already get
over to bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten go check out at plebeian.market if you're looking to buy
some goods and services with your sats paywithflash.com allows you to start earning bitcoin
for the things that you are selling so get over to paywithflash.com orange pill app come find us
There's 17,000 Bitcoiners around the world all ready and willing to connect and go listen to your podcasts on Bubble.
Use their technology bubble B and you can start curating your podcasts This podcast is getting dropped on Fountain app so please switch across from Spotify or Apple Pods wherever you listening Get over to Fountain download the app
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also now works on your mobile device on fountain so if you download the uh the episode you're on a
long journey you're on a train you're on a flight or something you don't just have the audio option
you can download and watch the video of this interview and the others that i've started uh
that have been uploaded since they started this this feature so thanks everybody for listening um
conferences I said at the beginning right yeah Bury St Edmunds in September you have the Balkans
in October and you have BitFest in Manchester in November links are in the show notes go grab
those tickets go use that code BITTON go get that discount go stack your sats and I'll catch you on
the next show