Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.
Joining me today is Dr. Deanna Heikinen who is back on the show. Deanna came back, she came on
to the Once Bitten podcast moons ago as you will find out in this podcast interview and since then
she has been incredibly busy whilst living in El Salvador, writing and writing and writing
and building projects. Her current project is called the Money Wisdom Project. And you can go
visit that moneywisdomproject.org. Please listen to the show, reach out to Deanna afterwards if
there's any way that you think that you'll be able to lean into what she's building and offer
your skills and services in any way possible to help shape the education system and Deanna comes
from a very long line of understanding how it's not broken right that the education is not the
education system is not broken it is working perfectly as designed by the people that designed
it to indoctrinate and propagandize children deanna is trying her best now as she moves into
the next handful of years to change that in her home country of the united states but she's going
to need our help and our support so if you've got any kind of skills in that arena or contacts
and you are a Bitcoiner, maybe you're a sleeper Bitcoiner within the education system,
Deanna needs your help. Please reach out because it's a very exciting project that she's putting
together and I hope that you get some inspiration and value from listening to this episode. And then
go and support her by buying the books that she's written. She's written a handful of kids books
and they're so great uh brilliant books and she's got a long career in designing curriculums
she is a lifelong career educator and she is fully orange-pilled completely down the rabbit hole
and totally understands the power of bitcoin educating uh excuse me separating education
from state and separating money from state it's like i'm here for it i am here for it so
supported by buying the books she's written some educational books for adults as well
and takes you down the long line history of money and getting you the great gifts to get you and
your friends up to speed or your family that perhaps are still not entering into the rabbit
hole. So thank you again, Deanna, for all of your hard work. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
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Enjoy this episode with Deanna.
All right, Deanna, we're recording.
Welcome back to the Once Bitten podcast.
Thank you. It's nice being here. Nice to see you both again.
so for those that didn't know and Deanna and I just took some time to scroll through and find it
uh you first came on the show at block height 803 414 uh to put that into old money that was uh
16th of August 2023 that you came on and you just uh when we recorded you were in the process of
moving your family to El Salvador, where you've been since then. And the price then,
do you remember the price of Bitcoin back? Oh, gosh, no, there's no I you know, I don't pay
attention to price that much. I do. And I don't. So yeah, I don't I don't keep those thoughts in
my head. I have other stuff in my head. So back in August of 2023, it was $29,914. The day that I
released our recording. Well, look at that. We've done quite well then, right? Not too bad. I think
we've outperformed every hedge fund manager that's ever lived. Yeah, at least by my research.
Absolutely. Not just this year. So yeah, well, well done as well for everything that you achieved
in that time, because I've just got a small stack of your books here. This isn't all you've written.
You've been the busiest bee, it would seem, in Bitcoin.
So here I've got Shelter Satoshi, which I'm working my way through.
Loving it, by the way.
Thank you.
Homeschooling I was drawn to first, which I'm sure you're not surprised to hear.
Yeah.
So I've read through that one.
And I've got four of your, what you would class as kids' educational books.
We've got Satoshi's Secret, The Story of Bitcoin, The Story of Yapstones,
the biggest money in the world,
Cowry Shell's Little Money from the Sea,
The Magic Beans, How the Mayor Used Cacao as Money.
So, and you have many more.
Yeah, well, those are the ones that I have published.
I have about 26 more in the works of children's books
that I am going to be publishing
over the next couple of months.
Most of them have written.
I just, I'm doing my own illustrations.
and so to, you know, keep prices down and whatnot.
And so I'm just working on a lot of the illustrations
and putting those together.
So there'll be three levels of children's books.
What you have there are the picture books
for the youngest ages.
And then I'll have early readers
for the kids like six to eight
that are just starting to read
in several different levels.
And then I'll have chapter books
for a little bit older.
and these the first 10 titles will be repeated for each set I'm a classical educator and so
start you know very simplistic and get a little more complex over time so that's in the works
and hopefully um by April they'll all be available that's my goal my goodness me Deanna
That is some work.
And congratulations.
It's a labor of love.
I absolutely, I'm having a lot of fun.
I think there's a big gap what's out there in materials for children that is age appropriate.
I see a lot of Bitcoin books and I applaud the authors for trying to, you know, put something out there for children.
But so many of them are so complex.
and so the kids can't really understand them in a conceptual level that matches where they're at
and some you know I'm a long-time educator I've built a lot of curriculum I've worked with students
from seven years old six seven years old all the way up through college done a lot of curriculum
design and so I something that's so important to me is to meet kids where they're at I see if you
don't it's indoctrination and that is something I am completely against on such a strong moral
foundation. Lauren, this might lead into your first question. Yeah. So my question is,
what is the hardest thing about Bitcoin to explain to a child?
I think the hardest thing is the concept of Bitcoin being money I think the concept of money and really like what it means to have a decentralized approach to money you can you can explain that to a six year old which is why I have these
books, look, we use little shells for money. How cute is that? And then Oh, my goodness, these giant
stones. Wow. You know, so that's all you need to do when they're really little, they don't need to
understand Bitcoin is decentralized, and it's the only money you can't do that. Six year olds never
going to understand that. It's an abstract principle. And you don't do that until maybe
middle school age, which is like, you know, 13, 12, 13, 14, depending on the individual. And then
definitely in high school, I'm American, so I go by my school years, but age why, you know, 14 to
18, they can really start to fundamentally understand it. But before that, you just say,
oh, yeah, here's another type of money. And isn't that cool? It lives on a computer. And that's all
you have to do it's okay that they don't get it a lot of adults can't even get it for a while so
why would you do that to a child i think it's actually abusive to their brains yes oh we could
we could riff on that for for many hours i'll get off my soapbox now sorry lauren what what did i
mean you've been asking questions on this podcast for almost six years since you were nine yeah
what have been like the most memorable memorable moments for you when like that that the satoshi
has dropped like oh i get that now because there's no way in the world you've been understanding
concepts at nine years of age that you're understanding to today i
I don't know like it always I might we might have had a podcast with someone when I was nine
and obviously I was nine and they said some complex words I obviously didn't understand
and then we went on a podcast with them again and then I'm like ah that's what it means like
It just happens more often than I think.
It's like the words are in the back of my brain
and they bring it back up.
And I'm like, oh, no, I actually know what that means now.
So it just happens without me realising.
And that was, well, just a seed planted in my brain.
And it just went to the back and just got brought back up.
And do you find when you're having conversations
with your friends about money that you will say something
that comes out of your mouth that you're like,
where on earth did that come from?
well yeah but it's also because we have well we have a lot of dinner discussions about money and
stuff so it's also um my own opinion but also i have to be realistic it is also probably the words
that you have said to me before so yeah but they won't be the exact words i say only the ones that
resonated with you will stay and sing but that sounds like education that's it right you so now
these books for these little kids that are being read to them, it's planting a seed, right? This is
the history of money. And I think in order to really understand Bitcoin, you need to understand
money in its essence, because otherwise it's, you know, I grew up watching Sesame Street in the US
on PBS. And there was this one of my favorite things was one of these things is not like the
other. And they would have, you know, different pictures of things, and you'd have to see what one
was different. And it's kind of that, right? That's what we do with little kids to teach
them how to compare and contrast so we can really learn. Aristotle figured this out thousands of
years ago. And so we have to compare in order to understand. And if we just ignore everything else
and say, here's Bitcoin, and you don't compare it to anything, it doesn't stand out, it doesn't
make a difference. And so by teaching kids this history of money, they're going to start seeing
how things are different and how they're used differently. And as they, you know, start reading
the more advanced books or they start learning a little bit more, then they're going to start
seeing how things are, yo, that makes sense. You can't use shells for everything, right?
I, you know, I can find cowrie shells on my beach. So, wow, I, you know, I just got money from the
ocean. That's cool. You know, I didn't have to work for it other than just walk along the beach
and, you know, and then barter. Well, I don't, I need to go, but I don't, they don't have anything
I want. So you just plant these little things in very simplistic. And like you said, Lauren,
is that you eventually you'll start processing them in the back of your mind, right? And then
you start to understand and it's not even something that you're consciously doing. It just kind of
pops out. You're like, whoa, that's kind of cool. I figured it out. And it's really exciting when
that happens. So what's really interesting, for Shelves of Satoshi, I'm up to chapter, well,
I've been reading through just to get back up to speed on what you've written here. And I think
you co-wrote this with your husband, is that correct? Yeah, so I wrote it, and I'm an academic,
and it was, you know, I thought it was great, but I guess dry. And he's a fiction writer. So he came
through and storied it up. And, you know, I'm a historian. I have a master's in history,
but I'm a classical historian. I had to teach myself a lot about the 20th century
fiasco. And so he kind of came in and polished some things, added some things.
And so we, he came, I pretty much had it written and then he came back and made it better.
love it and in chapter 11 where this is the chapter that you're talking about uh money being
uh defined clearly yeah as a medium of exchange uh by aristotle uh originally and then by um
adam smith uh as well like 13 centuries later whatever it is i can't do the math in my mind
right now yeah and you've got the definitions in there as well from oxford miriam uh oxford
dictionary and the miriam webster dictionary and just for fun i pulled out my black's law
dictionary from 1979 i think this one nice 1979 fifth edition just to see what black's law
dictionary has to say about money and the definition in this particular book dictionary
money in usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating
medium of exchange so there you go boys and girls yeah not just a store of value
not just a store value just letting you guys know yes yes and someday hopefully bitcoin um can be a
unit of account, but that's going to be far off. If that happens, actually, I've been doing guest
articles for Access Tribe on Substack. And I wrote one the other week about what happens if Bitcoin
wins, what that actually, you know, just speculatively, what that would look like.
And it's not, I mean, it's a great thing, but how to get the process of getting there is going to be
extraordinarily painful. So, you know, slow and easy, I think is the way we're going to have to
win this race otherwise it's going to implode so much of just how we live our lives
so on the dark side of things there do you think then a CBDC is inevitable in the interim of that
transition I think it's I think it's going to happen unfortunately um
I don't see a way around it in a lot of places I mean we live in El Salvador right now we're on
the U.S. dollar so if the U.S. goes to CBDC El Salvador goes to CBDC it's it's what it is right
I hate the fact that that's probably what's going to happen but I don't see it and I mean I I hope
I'm wrong. I hope someone in six months says, look, you were wrong. I'm like, hallelujah. Thank
you. I'm so glad I was wrong. But I don't know. I mean, for Bitcoin to win, fiat has to go away.
And I think people just don't understand that yet. They're using it as a store value,
at least in the West. Now, in other regions, in Africa and Central America and South America,
it is being used as a medium of exchange, right?
But it's still coupled to fiat.
And to decouple that, it's going to be painful.
That means that fiat has to have lost.
And so what does that mean?
That means financial institutions.
That means the way everything operates,
how we get our food, how we travel,
how we communicate.
self-having everything has to just completely it goes away um and it's a beautiful thing i think
because you know the u.s dollar and the you know um the military and the wars and all of that being
funded by fiat and you can look back and trace that back to the first central banking too um
and so it's really a good thing if it happens and maybe it'll be quicker than I think I mean
in the last couple weeks you know spot futures trading with Bitcoin you can now I mean that
these are huge movements that I am seeing so maybe it will be faster than I think it seems
like in the digital age as a historian you know you see things happen over time pretty slowly but
The fall of the Roman Empire happened slowly, but then all at once.
There's an anthropological or biological theory of punctuated equilibrium.
I don't know if you're familiar with, but there's a period of stasis where it's almost like things stay the same.
And it's evolutionary theory.
And then all of a sudden, there'll be a massive jump in a change of a species.
And it's called punctuated equilibrium.
Some subscribe to that idea but I think in monetary history we can also see that That really interesting Before we get geeky on anthropology and money and stuff I just want to ask Lauren if you had any further questions
or if you wanted to say goodbye, what's on your mind?
I have no further questions, but this is really interesting.
Thank you for talking to me.
It's nice seeing you again, Lauren.
Yeah, okay.
Thank you so much.
Have a good podcast.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Bye.
so let's stick to that because um i've said in the past uh or i or i'm repeating someone most likely
that uh we're not in a financial revolution we're in a financial evolution and and to me what that
means is when you look at it anthropologically the thing that you know lifted our species out of
well, basically we started forming societies and civilizations
on top of the fact that we discovered that using a medium of exchange
was the way that we could explode communication with each other.
We could explode commerce with each other.
Obviously, we weren't going global in that time.
It would have felt like it going from tribe to tribe,
from township to township.
And then you could actually start building on the foundations of the fact that,
wow, we've just found a way to communicate value
across space and time with each other.
And whether that's shells or feathers or bones or marbles
or pieces of rock, it would have been different
in each part of the world that you were at.
We're there again with Bitcoin.
That's what gives me the goosebumps every time.
So geek out as much as you want on anthropological,
kind of discovery of a medium exchange and what it truly means for our species and where you think
we're at right now it's um well it's really i i have a again a master's in history and in
anthropology so this is like i could geek out on this is your weird hours all right okay good so
you know how humans um civilizations and in terms of um society like arrangement you go from really
small band level people you know people living in really small bands that follow like probably the
best hunter or the father and they're all usually you know related to each other in some way and then
they it kind of advances to tribes where you have more people not everyone is related maybe you have
a head man maybe you have a shaman maybe not and then you start getting into chiefdoms and you start
having a little more sedentary maybe people are pastoralists following their herd animals
maybe their horticulturalist having small gardens but still foraging and then you get into state
level societies and when you get to state level societies you start seeing some you know more
complex barter and chiefdoms but when you get to that state level society people are now sedentary
you have specialists I am now a leather worker and I will trade for whatever I need the grain
to feed my family etc and so with that state level society and sedentaryism that's when you get trade
really across these distances. And we see that first in Mesopotamia. We see trade between
Mesopotamia, which is now like in modern day Iraq, all the way over to India and the Indus
River civilizations. So we see movement of things. And we can, you know, we call them artifacts,
these cultural artifacts from these different civilizations. And that's what how trade works.
And so and then the next big advancement would be shekels in Mesopotamia, coins, the first like
really rudimentary banks because you could have your deposits there. And then after that, we get
coins and then we get paper money and then central banking. And I agree with you. I think this is the
next big thing is with this idea for the first time in human monetary history, decentralized
currency. There's not, well, since we had, you know, early, early forms, but we don't have
someone who is saying, okay, here's the value and here's how it's going to be. Because even with the
flying money, those early banknotes in China, they got corrupted so easily with the deposit
houses. I mean, everything seems to get corrupted over and over and over. And this is the first
opportunity. So I think it's a massive evolutionary shift in monetary history where we're at right now
with Bitcoin. And whether it's going to, there's kind of a race to educate people on how it's
different from other digital currencies. So when I talk to Bitcoiners that won't even
mention Ethereum or any of these other coins out there, I think it's a disservice because again,
that comparative analysis, right? That's how we learn. We compare things. And if you don't
make that distinction, if you just disregard and pretend they don't exist, I think we're doing a
very big disservice to say why this is unique and different in this moment for the first time
in state-level human history. It's like explaining the difference between a gold nugget and a pebble.
right yeah if you disregard the pub pebbles oh yeah gold is cool yeah shiny yeah i like it but
that's it right yeah yeah you have you have to address the elephant in the room so to speak i
guess it's um that again in your book um you talk about uh what i love about it is the history and
the anthropology obviously uh and um just coming back to this idea that uh like you said we have
for the first time ever, we found a decentralized solution that with increasing digital finite
scarcity, like it just blows your mind, right? You know, it's just absolutely, you know, what?
And no wonder people can't just grog that straight away. Like that's a lot to take in.
Like, you know, it's-
Absolutely. It's not something we've heard of. It's not something familiar. It's not something
we've seen in, like we read in a book in school that maybe it's just kind of this little memory
back there. This is brand new. It's revolutionary. So how would Adam Smith have thought about this?
Because you've got a little passage here in the book where he wrote about money in his book,
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, which, by the way, I haven't read.
I've read excerpts. It's really long, and it's a lot.
I just want people to understand. I'm holding my hands up. I've not read that one.
I've not even read Mises' Human Action.
I've listened to like the first X amount of hours on Audible, but I've not got through the whole thing yet.
So there's a passage in it where he states,
The value of any commodity, therefore, to the person who possesses it and who means not to use or consume it himself,
but to exchange it for other commodities, is equal to the quantity of labor which enables him to purchase or command.
labor therefore is the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities so he's
basically saying proof of work right in in a roundabout way in 1776 yeah it's it's remarkable
right um i always tell people that when i'm talking about money as humans the only thing
that we have is our time and energy labor right as he would have defined it and that is our value
And so if I spend this amount of time and energy one day,
the next day I would expect for what I received in return money
should be valued the same amount.
It shouldn't go lower.
And maybe it shouldn't go higher.
And if it does, right,
but I should be able to hold that amount of value to the next day
and to the next day.
And then I should be able to choose how I take that money.
And if I want to put it somewhere where I think it might increase value and take that risk of my own accord, but not let someone take that away from me.
And I think that's what Bitcoin does now.
Okay, it's coupled to fiat.
So that kills that argument.
But in of itself, one Bitcoin I could have bought in 2011 is still one Bitcoin I would have today.
So Aristotle has A is A, right?
I think Bitcoin one is one.
Now, if we couple it to fiat, but that's something that we have to do right now because I think we're in this intermediary period.
We're figuring it out.
But for Bitcoin to win, one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin.
One Bitcoin will still be one Bitcoin tomorrow.
Someone doesn't get to say, you know what, just kidding.
Now you have 0.97 Bitcoin like they do to my U.S. dollar.
And that is where Bitcoin comes in.
That's why it's so important.
And that's the message that we need to, for people to understand.
Like, oh yeah, it goes down.
Well, no, the dollar, you know, we're coupling it to that.
And we have to right now.
We have to, I'm planning on traveling to South America next year and I'm going to have to
exchange currency again.
And I, because I live in El Salvador and I'm American and I get, you know, I teach online
and I get paid an American dollar.
Like I haven't thought about changing currency in quite a while.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to change currency.
This is going to be so weird for me.
But if I was on Bitcoin and if I go to, you know, travel to some of these circular economy
areas, I can just pay with my Bitcoin.
And I don't think about that.
And that's really fun to think about, too.
So this brings us full circle back to an anthropological kind of look at why Bitcoin.
And this seems like when you hear people say it, it sounds so hyperbolic.
But until you actually understand the nature of what is happening Bitcoin is inevitable because anthropologically our species will always move to the soundest form of money that is discoverable to them at any given time Yeah it true I mean you see China is a great example with the onset of paper money
right? And when it was first introduced, you have these deposit houses, and it was very regional,
and the money wasn't accepted across different regions of China. And then over time, a couple
of them went out. So you had the money in the North and the money in the South. And then Kubla
Khan came in and, you know, kind of centralized everything. And now it's all the same money in
China. And so you see that they're going to try to want to, you know, we want to streamline,
we want to make it easy for ourselves. We're lazy, right? We want to be, maybe lazy is a
horrible thing to say. Maybe we're efficient. But we want to figure out a way to make it easier on
ourselves in the long run. I think most people will strive to do that. I mean, look at technology
that we have. We are trying to make our lives easier and easier. So we have more time for
other things. And if we have to focus so much on our money, we don't have time for other things
that we would really rather spend our time on. I've heard Kenneth Svonholm say this years and
years ago everything we've ever invented was invented in order to save time absolutely and
time and energy right it goes back to that i yeah you know what we still like dipping feathers in
you know in ink like no i mean i have fountain pen fountain pens because i think they're cool
and unique and i'm a historian and that's fun and i actually have a feather quill but yeah no if i'm
going to write something i just grab a you know a clicker ballpoint yeah so everything everything
ever invented everything trains airplanes are better than trains right um now we have uh maglev
trains so they're even faster using magnets instead of you know the traditional rails it's just
fascinating to see how technology keeps advancing i mean we went from the spear to the bow and arrow
way back when and that was revolutionary because no longer did you have to get so close where you
could spear but even between that we had an atlatl which was this little device you put on the end of
the spear to make it go further and um to make you know the spear would go farther and it would go
harder so you could not have to be so close it was more efficient then we did bow and arrow and then
our arrows got better and smaller it's just you know then we put poison on them so we're always
trying to be more and more efficient and save time and energy so we have more time and energy to do
what i don't know but we you know scroll through cat videos who knows
that damn technology trapping us in the algorithms uh yeah exactly uh right okay um
to to leave history aside for for a moment i'm sure we'll come back to it uh as always with me
sorry yeah that's fine yeah like we said before you uh you were entering a new phase of your life
a couple of years ago when we first connected.
So do you want to get everybody up to speed then
as to what that has been like in the last few years?
Because a lot of Bitcoiners that listen to the show,
they're ready.
They're dying to give up their fiat jobs.
They're dying to take their families on a year-long travel.
I've done a lot of podcasts about van life
and this kind of thing.
We've done it ourselves.
My book, Choose Life, is about that.
You guys have done it for the last two years.
and you've got new adventures afoot.
So yeah, get everybody up to speed
as to what's been going on with you guys.
And in 2023, my husband and I moved down here to El Salvador
and me being Pollyanna optimist,
I thought I was going to be able to open a school
and that was my plan.
If you listen to the old podcast, you'll see,
oh wait, she's going to open a school.
Yeah, no.
So logistically, it was pretty impossible here
for a lot of reasons.
El Salvador is up and coming
and I mean I used to do archaeology in Egypt so I am familiar with you know living in very
remote rural areas and not having all the services we're used to and it's still that way here to be
honest. I live on the beach which is a pretty remote area and it's hard to get you know you
can't just go down to a strip mall and rent a space to open up a little school. I know somebody
who's been in the country for a long time and wanted to open a school on the beach and has
searched for a long time and still couldn't find the right location. So it's a thing and that's okay.
So I kept my fiat job where I am an online writing teacher. And so I've been working remotely with
families in the States and I do that part-time. Obviously I've been writing a couple books.
So I've been doing that. I've worked with Bitcoin Beach, me, Premier Bitcoin a little bit, just kind of doing some education and consulting with them and kind of just living down here, sweating a lot at the beach.
It's about, you know, it seems to be 90 degrees year round.
So it's almost Christmas here and it's just hot.
And yeah.
And so we we've been here two and a half years and there's it's again, there's like a big
transition.
People that have been here for two to three years are starting to kind of move away.
And we have new people always coming in Bitcoiners and particularly expat Bitcoiners.
And so I'm in the wave that's kind of leaving.
So a few of my really good friends and people I know have already left.
Some more are planning on leaving for various reasons.
We're on the U.S. dollar here and it's expensive, to be honest.
People are not prepared for that when they come here.
I wasn't.
Like our electric bill and we have little like unit wall units.
And I run the one in the office during the day and we run the one in the bedroom at night.
And our electric bill is like 300 U.S. dollars.
It's expensive.
rents are i mean we could live for what we pay here we could live the same in the states
okay so and i don't think people hear that and i'm at the beach and it's expensive here
at the beach i live in a nice little you know community gated community a lot of expat bitcoiners
are down here and so there's that um we don't always have what like our water will be turned
off. Power can be out for several hours if there's like a car accident on the road and it knocks the
lines out or if they're going to be doing maintenance. And so I know I sound like a
bougie American and that's if you want to call me that, that's fine. But also we're paying a lot of
money to be here. So there's that. And I am a woman of a certain age and I'm kind of just sick
of the heat. I want seasons again. I want to feel cold. You know, for podcasts and teaching, I put a
sweater on and but I turn the air down so I can do that so otherwise you know we're just kind of
like living in you know tank tops and shorts and whatnot all the time which is okay but so I with
writing the books and doing a lot of soul searching in the last few months I have started a non-profit
and I'm in the midst of getting it all sorted it's called Money Wisdom Project and for a while
what I saw as my white whale, if you'll pardon the literary reference,
is the American education system and trying to infiltrate that to counteract the Marxist ideas
that are prevalent by teaching the history of money. And again, it goes back to history,
but I think in order to understand Bitcoin, you need to understand money in a really deep way.
So I am starting Money Wisdom Project to offer free curriculum to schools.
the same way that Black Lives Matter
offered free curriculum to spread Marxism
and racism,
I'm going to try to teach kids
just the history of money.
And I will do it across levels.
I'm doing it as a nonprofit.
And because it's history of money,
it falls under financial literacy,
which is required by a lot of states now
in the United States for education standards.
I'll be tying it to standards right in the curriculum so it's like teachers just have to
roll out of bed and teach this be facilitators not even teachers really for the curriculum one
to four weeks so they can integrate it right into the middle of their school year whenever they want
make it super easy for them to start getting these ideas in schools and I'm going to start
with U.S. and Canada and then branch out do translations and just offer this free it'll be
available for homeschool families. It'll be available for anybody who wants it. And then
I'll be looking for grants and donations to help support the work and to spread the curriculum
and these ideas of teaching about money in order to understand Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is a piece of it,
but it's not Bitcoin education per se. It's money education, which I think is really where there's
a huge gap. And it's not the financial literacy in the States and in a lot of places is, okay,
here's how you operate in fiat. Here's how you balance your, you know, bank account or checkbook.
We don't use checks, but how to balance your bank account. This is a 401k. This is how you invest in
the TradFi system. And I won't touch that. This is just, these are all, this is money. And this is
how it's evolved over time. People have invented and reinvented. And now we had this stuff we call
fiat money, but now there's this new thing and it's digital currency. So let's look at CBDCs.
What is that? Let's look at, you know, all these different coins and let's look at Bitcoin.
And so take everything that's out there and just teach about the entire complexity of money.
And in a level that the students can understand. Right.
So in kindergarten, they're going to get little color books of calorie shells and they're going to learn that this is one's money.
And then by high school, they're going to be assigned essays to defend one system of money against another and everything in between.
very cool and a big yeah so and part of this is the books that i'm writing is to offer those free to circular economies
and libraries around the world just to get the stuff out there.
We need it.
And there's a lady, Claire Chisholm,
that's in the Loughlin School in Scotland,
which is, to my knowledge, the first private school in the UK
to be accepting Bitcoin for their fees.
They've also got a Bitcoin donor program
whereby scholarships are awarded
after a certain amount of Bitcoin has been donated there.
And she's working with Safer Dean to write like a curriculum,
for want of a better word, based on the Bitcoin standard.
So that's great to see.
And what you're doing is great to see.
What Meet Premier Bitcoin are doing is great to see.
Absolutely.
And I plan on working with my first Bitcoin.
I know John, I know all the guys over there.
And because it complements, they're teaching Bitcoin
and I'm just teaching that there's this thing called
and very minimal.
And then that's the next step
if people want to learn more is to take their curriculum.
So it works really well
with anybody doing Bitcoin curriculum
because I drop off at Bitcoin
and then they can pick up
and get into the complexities of it.
How deep down the rabbit hole
of the history of central banking
have you taken yourself?
um so i mean i what i wrote in um shells satoshi introducing um you know the rikes bank and all of
that and then talking about um when it you know britain started a central bank and the and i
really focused more like on how it affected trade and the trade routes and things like that and how
it enabled the East India company. I don't know if I know everything about it. I know it in those
contexts. And then the Fed, you know, Jekyll Island, I, you know, read, read from Jekyll Island,
you know, and I studied that as well. But I don't know a lot about each country, central bank,
like I'm learning a little more. We're going to Argentina next year. So I'm very curious. So I'm
reading quite up on kind of what's happened there um i know some of the history but i don't i wouldn't
say i'm an expert by any means i couldn't write a book solely on that i'd have to do a lot of
research right yeah which i'm sure you'll have fun delving into but the reason i ask is because
i've heard on stage at a few bitcoin conferences recently um central bank's being celebrated and
I'm like, what?
Like, you know, what are you talking about?
Like, you know, and referencing the formation of the Bank of England
as a pivotal moment in that, in the great empire, you know,
construction after that.
And if they hadn't have done that.
And I'm like, guys, it was formed in order to go to war.
Like, you know, the Dutch royal family ousted the English royal family
in order to go to war with France so they could end up making more money out.
It's the same story over and over.
Yeah, I wouldn't say it would be something to celebrate,
but it was always about funding wars and about whether it should be funded privately
or through the state, and they decided to do it through the state.
I mean, that's how it was founded, and then Britain did the same thing,
and then they controlled the trade routes,
and then they fought to control the trade routes.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's also, so the 20th century, you've looked at that, obviously. Dare we call it the century of all out war?
Yeah. It's disturbing in a lot of levels globally. I mean, as an American, you know, I kind of want to hide my head under the sand about it, you know, just out of shame from what the history of how America has this, you know,
And then I actually did this really crazy dive in the petrodollar because I wanted to find the documentation of the arrangement between Saudi Arabia and the U.S.
And I was going through archives and all of these, you know, website where you can pull up all this stuff and trying to I was going to do a freedom of information request also.
but I can't I can find
like some things alluding to it but there's not an actual agreement that exists that I could find
and I think research is my superpower and so there was kind of a there were some meetings
between the prince and various American people with, you know, secretary of state, vice president.
But I couldn't find a formal agreement. It didn't exist. It's more kind of backroom handshakes.
And this petrodollar has been this thing, right? And it was supposedly for 50 years. And on the
50th anniversary that's where I went for like three weeks I scoured and scoured and scoured
trying to find the official agreement which should be readily available in the American archives and
it isn't but you can read meeting notes of things kind of alluding to this type of a thing but
there's no formal agreement that I could find but it's this thing that's just kind of held this clout
for so long. So that was fascinating to me. And I some point, maybe when I get back to the States,
I'll do a freedom of information. I have a couple of things, requests I want to look for a couple.
Hopefully they're not all redacted. But this is the kind of crazy stuff that I just is like fun
for me. It's like a good Saturday night for me to go down and try to look through all the archives
and stuff. When I was writing the book, I was in the, you know, the British archives looking at the
central banking documents and found out that Australia was the first government that had a
gold seizure even before the US did. Really fascinating stuff when you start looking at
the archives and this history of money. One of my plans in the next year or so is to create a
history of money source book with all of these primary source documents in one place if somebody's
curious. I always say go back to the source. I see all this stuff on
Twitter like ah and then like go to the source go to the source so I always will like link to the
original source and like read this make your own opinion read this make your own I don't know I'm
like the source guru I guess or something but I think it'd be really interesting to put out a
source book so people who are curious about this stuff could just go and find out and make their
own opinions and you know have their own talking points it's a big thing for me that's why I love
The Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins.
Yeah.
Because the citations in that book, I mean, Griffin's book,
The Creature from Jekyll Island is great as well.
And, you know, written, I think he wrote that in the 90s.
But Eustace was writing his book in the late 40s, I think, 48, 49 is when he started writing that.
And he was studying at the Congressional Library.
And he had the dude at the library checking his notes.
And then he would take his notes that had already been checked to Ezra Pound, who was imprisoned for speaking his mind about World War I, who would then recheck his notes.
And then he would go back, get them checked again, and then go back to the source.
So that book is so foundational.
And he has minutes from Congress meetings where the formation of the Federal Reserve was being discussed in Congress.
And he has the minutes and he has the names of the people like Senator Lindbergh, I think, was one that was vehemently against what was going on.
And you have all of this pushback and you see it and it's just so fascinating.
It is. And even before that, if you look, you go back to the founding fathers and you read the debates in about whether or not to have a centralized currency.
and you know Hamilton because of that stupid musical which is completely historically inaccurate
it's unbelievable people like I'm so glad all right can we please rip to shreds Alexander
Hamilton yes and I'm like who celebrates this oh yeah they're Marxists got it okay we're good
I understand now why you're celebrating this guy yeah Hamilton is not a hero don't get me started
please please can we talk about how he was an agent of the Rothschilds sent to set up a central
bank in the united states yes and he he wants yeah and if you go i mean read the federalists
and the anti-federalist papers fascinating history so cool just and there you know or go to the
archives and read letters between you know jefferson and madison and washington talking
about these topics you know i i focus on education and money that's what i'm really curious about
and so to go back and you can even just search by a term and they've all been digitized so you can
just read them and it's just amazing to see and Hamilton is the villain in this story
yeah I don't know I've often thought about that musical and uh who I have a friend that will
always sing it just to get under my skin I'm like I don't even know I know you're singing a song
from it but I don't even know it uh it's it's so frustrating um one the music's just annoying
but like two that the the like the the factual is just incorrect like that like so it's so
inaccurate and it's just I mean my family came over um my relations all the way back to the
Mayflower I'm I'm card-carrying member of the Daughters of the American Revolution
I love history I very proud of you know my ancestors fought sorry I know you UK but fought for freedom And I hold that really close It actually why I left the States because I felt that we gotten so far away from the Constitution that I just couldn be there
And I needed a little break.
And I'm okay to go back now.
I want to educate kids about money and freedom and sovereignty and try to empower them more than I hate the United States right now with what it's become.
So that has won out.
So it's been good for me being down here.
For sure.
You know, traveling, living abroad just gives you such a completely different outlook on life.
And it gives you the room to think and breathe.
look we were away from the UK for 25 years
here we are back on the shores
and enjoying it
thus far and really enjoying
reconnecting
well connecting with the Bitcoin community
here that are doing great work
there's a lot of
really great things happening
and throughout Europe
and it's great to see but now
let's switch to homeschooling your book
which
yes a lovely read I must say
gives me a lot more connection to you because now I know you as a little girl as well because
you talk about that growing up and how your life has been shaped. What I really took away from it
is like, here's a person that knows what she was born to do. And you're a mentor. And from the
truest sense of the word, you're not a teacher. You are a mentor and a facilitator. You're someone
with a passion for education and that is reflected in your work.
So to have you go back, I suppose, to America and unleash that power
and the way that you're going to do it with the nonprofit that you're setting up
and hopefully people will reach out to you and enable you the best way
that they see fit is going to be amazing.
So well done to that.
So for people that haven't read the book, it's called Own Schooling, Bitcoin Sovereignty and Education.
You know, I love all this kind of stuff.
And if you're going to separate money from state, it's inevitable that you're going to separate other things from state.
And if you're a parent or about to start a family, you're sure as shit going to really think about separating education from state.
So do you want to explain why that's important to you?
I see it as outsourcing your children's minds.
And I see that as even worse than outsourcing your money.
These are your children.
This is their mind.
This is what we get, right?
This is what makes us, this is what separates us from every other thing on the planet is our human brain.
And if you're going to outsource that to people that you don't even know, that you don't know what they're going to think, what they're going to say, what they're going to do, I think it's really, really awful.
Now, I know in some places, Germany, for example, you cannot homeschool.
So I address that, right, in the book.
I say, if you cannot, that's okay.
You figure out.
You become involved.
And I tell my story in the first chapter because my mom, I see, is the first homeschooler.
She was so involved in our education.
I was publicly educated all the way up until I got my doctorate.
And my doctorate was my first private school.
But everything, university, everything before that, all public school.
But I had a really good education because my mom did her due diligence.
She went and did research and she found the best school district.
I moved a lot as a kid.
But she found, okay, we're going to live in this town because our schools are better.
And we're going to go in this neighborhood because those schools are even better.
and I'm going to meet your teacher and I'm going to be on the PTA and I'm going to be involved and
I'm going to know what they're teaching you and we're going to talk about what they're teaching
you and I'm going to ask you questions. I'm going to be involved and that's how she was and so if
you have to send your child to school whether private or public for whatever reason then that's
what you need to be. You need to be involved. You need to have first name basis with that teacher
and you need to ensure that they're not teaching something.
And if they are teaching something that goes against your values,
then it is within your right to figure out a way to counteract that.
Now, in the U.S., in some places,
I had a friend of ours whose son was in a social studies class
and they were teaching him things that she did not want him to know.
So they pulled him out for that hour and he went to the library
and I taught him social studies.
so you could have like a one, you know, homeschooling by subject,
and that's in the U S and every, you know, everything is,
every place is different, but if you can't do that, then you learn,
you figure out what they're learning and you deprogram them is what I say,
you know, cause they're being programmed.
It is indoctrination in a lot of cases because they are teaching advanced
concepts to really little kids. I mean,
even recycling is too advanced for a kindergarten and first grader.
they're not going to understand that it's an abstract concept and they just you know they
they're teaching these kids and they go home and they shame their parents it's awful it's not
education education is to allow the mind to flourish and grow and be curious and that's
being knocked out so whatever you have to do and I addressed the different types of schooling
you're still going to own school you're going to own your child's schooling no matter what so that's
why I came up with that term of own schooling is that you have to own the schooling of your family
if you don't then you're just outsourcing their minds and I'm just going to be mean and say shame
on you it's not okay so if you send them to school okay I get it and I was a staunch only homeschool
for a long time and then living here I encountered a lot of expats and I would have you know families
from Germany come over we're going to spend a month here but I go back to Germany my kid has
to go to school, what do I do? I cannot homeschool, they'll take them away from me. So I started really
thinking, and that's kind of what this book came out of as my experience here, and my years of
working with homeschool families and being a teacher, and finding a balance and try to find a
positive way to encourage families to do what they can, to keep their kids curious, to make sure that
their values aren't being destroyed, to make sure they're not being indoctrinated. All of these things
that I see in education, that's globally, not just in the US. One of the biggest realizations
we've had since moving back to the UK, Lauren and her brother are twins. And they went to
our nearest democratic school for the last year, which unfortunately had to close down,
they lost the property they were in. But that attracted like 60, 65 families. There's a hunger
for this stuff like you know and none of these other families were bitcoiners by the way you know
they're just other freedom loving families or they just see the fact that you know that that system
is just so crippling for their child and uh now they're doing a course nearby at the local college
and it's a mixed gcse with like a land-based management course so that they do a lot of
outside stuff and but still like we sit around the dinner table every night and discuss what's
been said today in class uh whether that's from one of their peers or whether that's from one of
their teachers uh or whether that's like uh some kind of new mandate that's coming in or whatever
and um we always have these discussions and that's the point where you have to
step in with the de-schooling de-programmed de-indoctrination if you see it you know
I don't just throw a brick wall up against absolutely everything they come home and tell us, but like the important stuff is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on.
And how did that make you feel?
What do you think about that?
So you check that first.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
I've done my job, right?
Yeah.
Feel that way.
But the biggest feedback they've given us, since they've made a few new friends, they might go over to their new friend's house and have dinner.
They're like, wow, like they don't even have dinner with their parents.
Like the food gets put on the table and then we just ran down from our bedroom, grabbed the food and then took it back upstairs and ate it in front of like a YouTube video.
I'm like, what? Really? It's wild.
It is. And families. Yeah. That's why, you know, and I'm old fashioned, I guess.
I mean, I grew up in the 1970s. And so but we had we had we ate around the dinner table.
and we had to ask to be excused and we weren't excused until the conversation you know it ended
and um i i love to see a return to that i love that you're doing that with your family and you're
talking about your day and everybody can share you know and you can even make it interesting and say
okay everybody what's your win for the day what was your challenge and then you know conversation
starters or you you know you write out on some index cards everybody writes down you know five
conversation starters for the month or however many you would need and then you pull one out
and then it starts if you know everybody's kind of like i don't want to talk a big thing this is
devices right and moderating devices um i've talked i i talked to families i'm like okay
you you set a time in the evening and everybody puts their device in the basket
even the family the parents you don't take them to the bedroom and i mean it's just my husband and i
and our rule is no phone in the bedroom and if one of us comes in with it we will call each other out
which very rarely happens usually it's me i'm like no phone and i'm not nice about it
i call the uh i call the kitchen an npz uh a no phone zone so when they and I like yeah And you teach and you also teaching them how to be you know
habit formation boundaries.
This is all executive functioning by just setting some boundaries with
devices, not letting your kids go upstairs and eat dinner up there.
No.
Because what are they watching?
And I'm not saying you have to be, you know, not trust your children,
but there's a lot of really awful things out there.
And I'm not even talking about anything that's sexualized, but just information that is available.
And wrong, you know, things that you don't want them to know or to learn or to think is the right way to be or to live.
And in the U.S., you know, there's been a lot of debate of whether parents have the right to teach their children.
I'm like, are you kidding me right now?
I mean you know there have been brawls at school board meetings literally going to fisticuffs right
and who are these people and they're educators and it's abhorrent but you know I got my doctorate
in education I know what they're doing in these teachers colleges I know those programs I went
through it and it is awful everything is Marxism everything is you know anti-family anti you know
we we know everything i'm like i didn't learn anything about teaching all i learned was um that
it's all about skin color and gender and spreading marxism i was forced to use critical race theory
for my doctorate dissertation and so i did intellectual diversity use critical race
theory as my theory and pretty much gave them the middle finger to get my degree
because there is no intellectual diversity this is right okay this is a great point to hammer home
because again, people think it's hyperbolic to say that the education system is an indoctrination
system. And just like, they look at you, yeah, okay, yeah, whatever, nice one. You're like,
right, okay. I've seen it as a parent, because I've taken, the kids have done Montessori,
homeschool, unschool, world school, private school, public school, state school, whatever,
right the gambit and i've read the things you know i've i've read john taylor ghetto i've read
john holt uh i've read uh all of pat farenga's work i've interviewed these people peter gray
naomi fisher the people that have done the work before me uh and when you read um the underground
history of the education system by john taylor ghetto i mean that's that's the one that's when
it all clicks it yeah i i mean definitely it should be you know when you are at the hospital
and you're you know delivering they should give you a copy of that book right yes
it basically and he was an educator for 30 years and you know uh and then john realized what he'd
been a part of and he dedicated the rest of his life uh he never said no to a speaking engagement
because he wanted to get out the truth of what this machine had been created to do.
It's true. I mean, I walked away from the system.
I was teaching college in California at a community college, so a state school.
I walked away from six figures and a cushy retirement in 2017.
And, you know, it's been a struggle financially since then, but I have no regrets whatsoever.
I am like, I can't sell my soul for this. I am not built that way. And I've been trying to fight
encouraging families to homeschool, consulting free of charge, anybody who wants some help on,
you know, where to find curriculum, what the laws are in their area. I just offer my time to help
people make that transition or to have those conversations to encourage them because it's
the best way to educate. And if you can't, okay, then this is Montessori, this is Waldorf,
If this is you, if you do public school, then set your family up this way.
Set those boundaries with devices.
Don't give your kid a phone until, you know, don't just put them in front of the iPad when they're three years old because you can't.
What did they do?
Like my family, my mom, we didn't, we weren't, we had one hour of TV a day growing up after school.
And then again, in the evening, like after dinner, we could watch like a show.
but we we were outside playing um so there's just so many things you can do
that what's um better than devices i think the darkest part here is the um you know the teachers
uh they don't realize what they've been for want of a better word programmed to do
it's true and it's the colleges right it's what's being taught at colleges
and I encourage families I have a whole chapter of here about the college problem and own schooling
what to do and if your kid wants to be a doctor or a lawyer or something that requires licensure
then of course they have to go to college but you need to help them navigate that so they don't get
pulled in and they don't get indoctrinated honestly well the problem being the people that
dish out the certificates to become a lawyer or a doctor are the same people that own the drugs
that they push and the justice that they give out. It's true, right? And so that's why I would
actually encourage and show, pull up the stats that if you're a plumber, you're making over six
figures in America. Go learn a trade. Go do Mike Rowe's works program. Do something. Unless you
have this really strong pool that you want to help people in, you know, in the medical field,
or you want to, you know, try to put some sort of justice. I walked away. I mean, I got my
doctorate in education because I thought I could fix it from within. And then I realized I was
starting to get ostracized. I was on state level committees. I was doing all of these things.
And I started opening my mouth and I started getting a little ostracized
on my campus Senate in different places. Right. And so I just realized, you know what,
it's not possible to fight with from within so i left and started working trying to reach as many
families as i could you know whoever wants to listen that's why i wrote this book it's just
trying to help families and show that you know freedom it really takes two things money and
education for you to be free you be a free thinker and own your time and energy those two things in
order to be free and so that's kind of why i have that whole thing about money in there too because
i don't think you can decouple that if you want to live a truly sovereign life
well but yeah the teachers are coming out of colleges um and they're it's it's all programming
it's marxism right i i taught history and so many textbooks are marxist lens now
I taught primary sources
I created my own readers
because I wasn't going to use any of the crap
that they publish now
I tell homeschool families
if you want to teach some interesting history
get anything published before
1930
20
and go to a used bookstore
and find some old history books
yeah you won't have the 20th century
but that's okay
you can fill it in with primary sources
newspaper clippings, what not
it's interesting uh i had a conversation i think two or three months ago with uh my 18 year old
who's studying some a-levels and one of those is uh sociology and uh she was sorry she was set an
essay to write something through a marxist lens or something and i just like what what and um i said
How often does this discussion come up in class?
Because obviously you're studying communism and Marx.
And have you ever pointed out, have you ever asked your teacher, actually, why don't you do this?
Ask your teacher to pull up the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto.
And let's see how many of you guys can tick off in a class under the regime that you currently live in the United Kingdom to see if you live in a capitalist, so-called capitalist, or a communist country.
What do you think?
well we'd be capitalist obviously i'm like okay open your phone let's start at number one
tick tick tick tick number five by the way is the central bank um number 10 is free education system
and i think number three is uh gradually increasing income tax but all the other stuff
You just didn't describe the entire West, at least.
Right.
The other seven points are all there.
I'm like, okay, now what do you think?
She's like, do you think you could point this out to your teacher or not?
I don't know.
So I need to catch up with her to see if she's done that.
Yeah.
This is what's being taught.
It's true, though.
It is.
When I was at the college, there was the sociology club president.
gave one of the sociology instructors for her birthday a cake.
And they had, you know, you can put pictures on cakes.
It was Karl Marx's face.
And they all celebrated.
And the teacher posted it on Facebook and was like,
look at my students gave me for my birthday.
And I was like, oh my gosh.
But yeah.
And I'm still flabbergasted, right?
And this was in like 20, probably 15.
So, I mean, this is not anything new.
What's happening?
I was at a conference and I was talking about the system and in what,
like 20, probably 13 or 14, maybe even 15.
And people were coming up after me, you know,
and I was talking about the prevalence of Marxism and what was really bad.
And people came up and I was like is it really No you just I like no I not exaggerating This is truly what is happening in colleges And it has been for quite some time And we could trace it back There this Brazilian theorist Paulo Freire
I don't know if you've heard of him.
Pedagogy of the Oppressed.
And he wrote this book and it spread like wildfire amongst educators.
And basically the thesis is that we need to teach students to be activists.
And that is what our goal is, is to teach them to be activists.
and he's a complete Marxist. So Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed. And that was in,
you know, the 80s, 90s. And that I think started really opening up the floodgates. But I mean,
when I was getting my doctorate, my original dissertation that I wanted to write
was on the history of education and how like the philosophical
transition from, at least in the States, and how education was in the Constitution.
So I did a really deep dive and understanding Dewey, all those Europeans that came over
to Columbia that started the first teachers colleges, and, you know, the great books
programs and these, you know, kind of this tension back and forth.
It was fascinating.
And so really, I mean, Dewey, who is celebrated, I mean, that's like celebrating Marx in education.
You know, he's the Marxist, Karl Marx of education.
And even before him, you have Horace Mann, who's also celebrated, but he's the one that brought the Prussian system over, which then spread.
You know, so it's a militaristic system that our kids are being taught in to begin with.
I love the part in Taylor Ghetto's book where he talks about Horace Mann's visit to Prussia in the 1890s, something like that.
And his wife.
I think it was like 1840s, 50s.
Yeah.
So it was early.
Yeah.
His wife wrote a letter back and he references the letter to say something along the lines of, we so happen to have landed on the shores of Prussia during the Easter holiday break.
We've not seen one teacher, let alone set foot into a school.
And then he goes back and does the whole dog and pony show.
This is how we need to do it.
The whole thing's a sham.
It is.
It's just unbelievable.
And then the General Education Board, the founding of the General Education Board in 1902, funded by no less than John D. Rockefeller with a million dollars after a secret meeting.
You know, it's the Jekyll Island playbook all over again.
I know.
It's so frustrating when, so when you try and explain to people that it is an indoctrination machine, it is there to, for the state to separate families as well, you know, and that you said earlier about how certain people in America have been talking about how the children belong to the state and parents shouldn't be in charge of education.
I can't remember her name it was the lady in uh who's head of Harvard was saying this um towards
the end of COVID right in the middle of COVID uh when homeschooling was going on the rise
and um you know basically to try and get kids back into the schools and like you people can go and
find that clip like you'll find it Harvard you know homeschooling is bad or whatever I'm sure
it'll come up you can't believe the words that come out of these people's heads it's unbelievable
it's I just I'm easily shocked still to this day and I just am speechless and my husband's like
you should expect this I'm like I know I can't I'm still too I don't know Pollyanna is the only
way I know how to explain it which that reference is starting to get harder to explain to people but
I just you know I'm hopeful and positive and try to be optimistic and people still completely shock
me every day it seems like because what they're like how can you think like how can you actually
believe what you're saying in terms of you know wanting you know if you haven't studied history
then shame on you but if you're a marxist shame on you go study that history how many millions of
people have been killed because of this ideology it's insane doesn't it doesn't and then the
the historians that are Marxists, that's the worst part.
Like you're worse than anybody. You should know better.
Wow. Right. Okay. Let's, let's start winding it up.
Sorry.
I'm really looking forward to, you know,
following your story over the next couple of years. And like, you know,
like you said, like Jeff Booth has said many times,
you can't fix a system from within the system.
So you are now out of that system. You are a parallel system,
Bitcoin ethos as well. So this is exactly what we need. More projects like that. Well done to
yourself. And I hope people that have listened to this will, and have resonated with what you have
to say, will reach out and find you. Best place to do that, I assume is on X. I'll put your X
handle up on there and just drop me any other links that you want people to come and find you
if there's a website. Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually not going to be doing as much on X.
I've been doing a lot of writing on Substack
and I enjoy the longer form writing
and so I'm trying to educate people that way
I still will be on X
and Money Wisdom Project has an X account
but a lot of the long form writing that I do
I'm pushing over to Substack
just because I'm verbose
and X isn't really great for that
No, moneywisdomproject.com?
Yeah, no, .org
dot org right okay that will go and then money wisdom proj p-r-o-j on twitter got it uh and
finally if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody who would you give it to and why
this is going to be a little controversial i would give it to trump because he doesn't
really understand bitcoin he doesn't at all because he has a lot of influence and there
a lot of Bitcoiners who think he's a Bitcoiner so I'd actually try to make him a Bitcoiner.
No he just see he's accounting everything in fiat. He wants to play as much Bitcoin as he possibly
can or any of the other things as much as he can and then just exchange it all back to fiat as soon
as he gets that opportunity. But you know he's not here for what we're here for like there's...
No so that's what I would do to actually make him try to understand but I mean I don't think
he's a great human being so maybe i just wasted my orange pill well think about it you can always
change it send me a voice note all right so thank you so much for coming on really appreciate it and
all the very best with your with your new adventures uh over the next uh few years
thank you so much daniel it's nice seeing you again take care well there you go guys thank you
so much for listening thank you Deanna for coming back on the show thank you for everything that you
are doing to further the education about Bitcoin about money to the young people of today
well actually to everybody because let's face it if you if you pick up if you go over to Deanna's
website or Amazon or wherever reach out to her she will help you out in any way shape or form
that she can and you want to get those kids books go back to the beginning where Deanna and I are
talking with Lauren and she's sharing how she learned through a conversation uh if I go back
to when she was nine that there weren't that many bitcoin books around for to read to kids
um there was a bitcoin money book by the bitcoin rabbi I'm pretty sure that was around
and then obviously Scott from Shamory and his wife they started with their project they had
the card game first and then they had the kids books goodnight bitcoin but that's for very very
little ones obviously we got the books because I love supporting the people that are doing all this
kind of stuff and we read them and if you gift those books to your nephews your nieces they're
going to want to look at the pictures and then they're going to want the book read to them and
the only people that are going to be able to read the book are their parents or their grandparents
or their aunties and uncles and this is the perfect way to get this education rolling and uh it's it's
done in such a great way as well the books are great please go and check them out and support
your fellow Bitcoiner that is out there trying to further education.
Quick announcement.
Recently, John Dennehy, who is the founder of Me Prima Bitcoin,
invited me to join the board there.
I was very humbled.
He had me at hello.
Of course, I would love to join that board of advisors
just to help them network deeper into the Bitcoin world,
get them exposed to more conferences.
go over to me prima bitcoin and order yourself a copy or a couple of copies and uh start
passing those around your school do whatever it takes to try and get this education into school
there's a there's a lady up in scotland claire chisholm she's started accepting bitcoin at the
private school that she is currently head mistress at and she's devising a course with
the safer thing it's about austrian economics and money hit the history of money and bitcoin
so this is happening right and it's gonna it's grassroots always don't wait for top-down order
it is grassroots movements and it's podcasts like this that open up your minds and your ideas and
hopefully gives you some inspiration so like i said at the beginning reach out to deanna uh i'll
I'll put the link in the X hashtag in the, not hashtag, account in the show notes and
project as well, the Money Wisdom Project. Meanwhile, thank you everybody for listening.
I hope you enjoyed that one. Take care and I'll catch you on the next show.