Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Prince, and I'm the host of the Once Bitten podcast.
This is a podcast focused on Bitcoin. It's my mission to interview as many people as I can
around the different aspects of Bitcoin and help people understand exactly what Bitcoin could mean
for them and for their families and for their future. I hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so
much for listening. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Once Bitten podcast.
Joining me today, Alexandra Navarro and Jeremy Almond from Paystand. Have you ever heard of
Paystand? Likely you haven't, but you're about to and you're about to hear a great story of how
the Bitcoin focused company was founded, why it was founded, Jeremy's backstory and their vision,
not just for onboarding as many businesses as they possibly can onto Bitcoin without them even
knowing, but also through their foundation, paystand.org, which is the most incredible
foundation that you've probably not heard of either. They focus, really focus, laser-eyed focus
on helping Bitcoin get into community circles and using it as a tool, as a medium of exchange,
as a way to facilitate trade between people, to facilitate freedom,
to facilitate all the things that we know Bitcoin is here to do.
And this is the kind of great story that I want to try and help push
because there's all of this noise around Bitcoin treasury companies at the moment,
but here's a company using Bitcoin in a way that is so unique.
And the thing is, it shouldn't be unique.
It should be ubiquitous.
This is the way that you should build companies.
You should be able to stack Bitcoin onto your balance sheet to ensure that your company is going to be around for the next 20 to 30 years.
And you can protect your employees and you can protect your goods, your services, your product.
You can iterate on that.
You can get better and better at what you're doing because you're escaping the fiat debasement.
That is what this is all about.
And this is what Paystand are trying to achieve.
and with their fund, paystand.org,
they're trying to get as much information and education
into these economies as they possibly can.
These groups of people all around the world,
they are supporting so many great initiatives.
Go check out the website.
Favorite story from this particular episode is an indigenous tribe.
Yeah, it blew me away. I love it.
Before we get into this episode,
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Right, let's get into this one with Alexandra and Jeremy from Pace Down.
All right, I think we're recording. It says we're recording.
Yeah, this meeting is being recorded, so someone's recording.
The red button's on.
yeah exactly no it's it usually tells me this oh i think it's because the note-taking ai thing was
anyway listen alexandra and jeremy welcome to the once bitten podcast thank you so much for
for taking the time and for so much more which we'll get into but uh yeah it's great to have you
on thank you daniel like being in your podcast is such an honor and being with your daughter
is a double honor. Thank you. Daniel, it's always good to see each other kind of virtually. We've
been in person, so this is kind of fun to be on the other side of the pond with both families.
I think the first time we connected, you were asking me the questions. Is that right?
That is true. That is true. So it feels only fair that the interrogation should go the other way.
Exactly. Well, do you want to shill your podcast? Don't let that moment pass.
No, no, no, no. We have like an anti-shilling rule on my side. So I'm just going to learn from the best.
So always take notes from the best is what I've learned in business.
So. All right, cool. Well, Lauren, over to you. You're the best in the business.
First question. Thank you.
What is pay sand? Or what does it do?
Wait, I just thought we were talking about not shilling and we're going straight into shilling.
Sorry, you like it. I like it. Go for it.
Why do I have to do this?
No.
Yeah, so I guess Pace Dan for, you know, the Bitcoiners is kind of a quiet giant in the space.
A little bit of context.
We started the company really out of a genesis for me that was in 2009 during the financial crisis.
And I was there at Occupy Wall Street when you saw sort of the corruption of banking.
And I was part of an early crew that just wanted to see things better and different.
And that's why I went down the Bitcoin rabbit hole.
And a few years after that, what I found was there was this incredible ideology of Bitcoin and the incredible technology of Bitcoin, but the use case wasn't quite consistent or at scale.
And so, you know, what we set up to do is kind of be the largest business use case of Bitcoin.
And today we are the largest and fastest growing financial network for companies built on Bitcoin.
So we use about a million businesses, operate on our platform to pay each other, send each other money and to ultimately make their company more efficient.
So we create economic empowerment for them.
And our belief is if you create economic empowerment for companies and the economy, you can also give back to the community.
So Alex is involved in our foundation, which is PayStand.org.
And that is a philanthropic effort.
That's entire goal is to be able to help Bitcoin circular economies around the world grow so we can see the mission continue to spread.
Yeah, excellent. So I've got a follow up question there, actually.
And this has never dawned on me, but I'm not even sure Kaylin would know.
And she's almost 20. So Occupy Wall Street, did you hear him say that?
Yes. Do you know what that is?
no ah okay so for the millennials well gen z that the tune into the big part the ones bitten
podcast how would you explain to somebody that doesn't know what that was that that moment in
time yeah so um it was this unique moment in time where i think people realized a how important banks
are or money is to society and b when it goes really wrong how bad that is for society so in
2008, a number of the largest banks in the U.S., but then really the world, they basically fell
apart. And they fell apart for, let's call it a bit of a Ponzi scheme. The banks were over levered
in these commercial loans that they were doing. And the net result was the biggest banks in the
U.S. either failed or nearly failed, and the government had to come and bail them out. Now,
what was the problem with that? That's really nice because the top rich people, the top 1%
in Wall Street, they all got bailed out by taxpayers. And then, and this is part of my
personal story, millions of people around the world, especially Americans, they were on the
receiving end and they didn't get bailed out. Because if, say, the bank held a loan for your
house and that bank failed, the bank actually repossessed your house. So in my case, my family,
there was sort of a tragedy in the family and my father had passed away and they held a very small
loan and they were kind of paycheck to paycheck. My parents were very meager growing up. They didn't
go to high school or college. And their story was one of many people's stories, which is you grew
your wealth in the American dream by buying a house. And so they did that. But unfortunately,
they were on sort of the receiving end of this sort of calamity and they lost their house. So the
bank, took the loan, kicked them out of their house after 20 years of paying the mortgage.
And then they were kind of just left alone. And the government came in and bailed out all the
kind of rich or wealthy people and the big corporations, but they left the rest of the
people out on the streets. And so the kind of saying then was they bailed out Wall Street,
but they did not bail out Main Street. And so Main Street revolted. And that revolt was what
was called Occupy Wall Street So this was a you know kind of a historic moment So thousands and thousands of people in each city major city in the US and around the globe started protesting basically down with the banks So the kind of genesis of the mentality
of Bitcoin really started there. So I was in New York and people were throwing rocks at the banks
and rightly so, they were pretty upset. And the outcome of that was this idea that money is the
root of our economic system. And if it lets us down or it's corrupt, that's totally unfair to
people. And people started waking up. And this was right around the time that Bitcoin was created.
And so you actually can look at the Genesis block. And there's a sort of subtle nod to it
in the original inscription, because it was this notion that you needed money that is free
and fair to have a thriving economy. So imagine. I don't know. Sorry,
That was, that might've been like too philosophical.
No, definitely not.
I'll show you some pictures afterwards
because I think it's important
that the younger generation know that that went down.
It's yeah.
And thanks for bringing that up and mentioning that.
I've actually had other people on the podcast talk about it,
but never mentioned it to Lauren.
And I know Eric Kaysen, I think he was in Occupy,
John Dennehy, who's out in El Salvador now with Mi Prima,
another good another another guy that was down there protesting uh all right so alexandra we
we should uh move across to you um did you have a specific question for alexandra oh it's not the
person well i thought you can ask oh oh yeah uh hold on let me get all the words in order
how is caitlin doing how is she doing full job oh my gosh this is such an inspirational question
So Caitlin is doing great, bringing someone that is young to a group of interns that are younger.
We have around 17 kids here.
I mean, when I said kids are young college students that they don't know anything about Bitcoin, but they want to do great projects.
so Caitlin came being that person in that group that knows about bitcoin that is ready to do the
uh program to digital nest and I asked her she's been preparing everything the material what she's
gonna do and one day I told Caitlin I need to go to this event over the hill and I do you want to
join me she's like yes of course she's always smiling always great and I take care I'm totally
informal when I open the uh the door of the event is 2,000 people 2,000 women that I'm going to be
one of the emcees and I look at Caitlin I'm like what is this everybody is in galas and she hold
my hand and she said I am not even a guest and I said just take Jeremy Almond's thing she's like
okay I love it I'm gonna be Jeremy Almond I love this she interacted with everybody she
shared me up thanks to uh her being with me I was able to feel secure to do my job and to
find more people um that was kind of like a great moment and I have moment to see how the young
generation is so self-confident so curious open to be themselves and I love that from her
and the next week she's ready to go to do her first a program course at digital nest and i ask
her are you ready and she's like oh i got it of course i got it and i'm like i'm gonna bring you
there i'm gonna drive you there i'm gonna introduce you to everybody i want to make sure that you
are fine and she's like i'm gonna take an over i'm totally fine so i said i insist and she's like
okay Alex you are nice so we go there I introduce her to everybody everybody already know here
everybody was expecting here and so far I hear that everything that she's been deploying there
about Bitcoin that they were kind of like acceptable is being into a very success moment
today we're gonna have more than 20 young people coming to our offices to have their certification
their graduations about knowing what is bitcoin what is inflation inflation when money matters
and everything was delivered by a young girl that is not even 20 who is an inspiration for me for
the company and now for other people this is what can i tell you that caitlin is doing here
amazing amazing can i can i brag about like caitlin's actually one of the cool things that
she's just successfully done. So a little bit like rewind to my backstory. So my family kind of grew
up. My mom came from her side of the family came from Mexico right before I was born. So she was an
immigrant refugee. And then my dad was like a blue collar construction worker. So he never went to
high school or college. He like swung a hammer. And so we grew up in a rough neighborhood, let's
call it. And so like I personally got involved in tech because I got part of a sort of special
program that gave me access to education. And then that access to education gave me access to
technology and then kind of was my ticket out, so to speak. And so there's a really cool program
that Caitlin's involved with that she's the liaison for called Digital Nest. And Digital Nest
is like the program that helps kids that were like me.
So they go into areas all over the U.S.
and help kids that are generally like migrant,
children of migrants who are first generation in the U.S.
that are sort of the American dream,
but they don't have access.
And so the idea is to be able to give kids
that are your guys' age access to a computer,
access to some technology training,
and maybe a head start so they could go to college.
So it's a little bit of me over again.
So my heart is just, I love this program.
And we've been supporting them for a while on paystand.org.
But paystand.org, our entire goal is to drive financial inclusion through Bitcoin.
And we've been trying to slowly orange pill this group.
And they are the natural group.
And we've done so much work all over the world on helping communities like that use more Bitcoin.
And an annoying thing to me a little bit is in America, that's not happening as much.
It's happening in El Salvador. It's happening, you know, in Guatemala.
It's happening in places in Africa. But I want it to happen in our backyard, too.
And so we've been kind of slowly pushing to like, this is a great community that actually really should use the tools of, you know, the sort of powerful catalyst for financial change.
And so the thing I'm really excited about is two areas that are like so near and dear to my heart.
You know, the story of, you know, these kids that are the American dream.
and then the thing that is the economic empowerment for them to grow,
it put together and it's really Caitlin who's the one that's connected the dots.
So to me, that's really, really special that she's doing that.
Yesterday, I have a call from United Way.
You guys probably know about them.
And I share what Caitlin did through the Digital Nest.
And they were immediately saying,
can we deliver this to other countries through us?
and I was like absolutely let's do this so uh it's just to finish that it's great to see that
is the young people who is doing the work and they believe easier and they are as I mentioned before
very curious and open and having here as an inspiration not only for the nest but for our
interns uh is really what we need we need more caitlin's right more young people that is moving
this forward so very proud of having her here well thank you and just for context uh caitlin
caitlin is lauren's big sister do we need more caitlins well right okay so that's just the
point of view but uh yeah and and you know huge thank you to to you both for offering her this
opportunity i can't remember where the the brainchild for all of this came from alexandra i
think it was uh it was you that uh that reached out and um we talked about internships after
seeing you in in oslo and and seeing you in madeira uh we saw the pair of you in oslo jeremy i don't
think we met in madeira were you there i was busy surfing buddy but yes i was there
but it was great to see in oslo at the uh the freedom forum even then it was just too short
but uh when when alexandra told me about uh the projects that you were you were backing in uh in
Madeira, the first thing I said, well, you know, I can hook you up with people across this side of
the pond in Europe, because, you know, the economies, the growing Bitcoin economies,
circular economies, they're tough to find sometimes. And I just tried to sit down and
think of different people I could put your way. And I think I put you in touch with a few football
projects. I know you're a big football fan, Alexandra,
although the Lionesses are the champions of the world.
So, yeah, well, thank you. Thank you for coming up with the idea and,
you know, it's having her to spend this two months in her summer intern.
I can't imagine the experience she's going to take back to her second year at
university is going to be very interesting to see and the memories all the memories she's making
yeah that's going to be because already in her so she's studying what is it political science and
international relations and her first essay did she tell you this guys the title of her first essay
you should ask her about this the title of her first essay that she was assigned
week one at university was how is money created in the uk banking system
what i didn't know that i mean and i you are inspiring me to tell you about uh micaela my
daughter is 14 years old and her first essay at the school she said i wanted to write about
uh why bitcoin do you remember the title of the essay yeah why bitcoin is the only crypto that
matters uh basically everything else is a coin was kind of her essay and she was trying to she
write it down and she showed it to us and i read it and i'm like this is really cool that was chat
gpt and she's like no it was me and i'm like really and she mentioned in her reading a thing
about what trump is doing what policy maker what is part of the constitution what is part of the
the values, economic empowerment, what she learns in Madeira.
And the teacher goes and is totally against that paper, right?
Like again, destroyed her.
Like, what are you doing?
And she comes and is like well this is what I think And I want to sustain that And we were all super proud of her with that paper and i sent it to a woman in bitcoin in um las vegas and they said oh this
is really cool and i'm like i'm very proud that more young women are able and she's just 14 years
old right and she goes and uh they said can we have her as a speaker and i come back to her and
she's like mommy I don't know if I'm going to be able to speak this is the first time that I'm
speaking I'm like no you have to be proud we need more girls more women more young people that are
able to go speak what they believe in so she went speak and many many many people came to me
uh saying like thank you you guys are inspiring us to take this into middle schools you guys are
inspiring us to take this into more young people so going back to to the story of her first paper
there are many first papers that need to be sang right and it's with their voices with your voice
like don't stop talking about what you believe right yeah yes totally so can you give us a little
insight into some of the projects that you guys have found and helped in any way that you can.
Obviously, funding is one big help, but there's more than one way to help a project. Any particular
favorites? Firstly, how many projects? Do you even have that metric off the top of your head?
Yeah, we have around 24 NGOs that we are supporting. I would like to talk about
one of my favorite one that is
Woman in Bitcoin and I would like
Jeremy for you to talk about
the indigence because the
inspiration of that one down in Colombia
is really cool and
very quickly about Woman
in Bitcoin that is How I Met You
Daniel right it was through
Claire I saw Claire
in that branch
and
she is so genuine and
so authentic
that really inspired me to talk to her.
That was two years ago.
And I was kind of like just starting to learn
about why Bitcoin is not a cryptocurrency.
Like learning, really.
I was learning through the company, through Jeremy,
but never with a group of women, right?
And we are there and I talk to her
and I talk to Christina
and I talk to a couple of, to Rachel.
And then I get together with Rachel
and she mentions that she has her woman in bitcoin initiative and i ask her can i be part of that
and slowly we become getting more woman together uh before any bitcoin conference to talk about
what we believe it doesn't need to be the technical aspect the political aspect only or whatever is
whatever we feel comfortable to talk about that and so far right now with the support of Claire
Christina Rachel many other women of course in many countries we have so far supported around
12 women in brunch events that sit together to talk to empower women to become more leaders
and don't be afraid about using it, saving money, or just asking questions about that.
This is one of my favorite programs so far and it's been successful.
And every time that the Confederation of Women, we met together to say what is next
and what is next is in El Salvador.
We are all very excited to see how we bring different cultures together, right?
Like Claire is in UK, Rachel is in Germany, I'm here.
The other one is in Africa.
And how can we all get together to uplift and empower more the economical empowerment
and the financial inclusion that we are all looking forward.
So that's one of my favorite ones.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And for your feedback in Prague this year, which is the brunch, I think,
I believe that you helped fund for some coffees and pastries
and to help secure the event and whatever else.
75 women showed up.
And that was during like the industry day of BTC Prague.
And again, I remember last year,
the last year was organized by Rachel Gaia with Lake Femme Zorange.
and um we met um Isabella in at breakfast Isabella Santos we saw her at breakfast and we're like
Isabella are you going along to the ladies brunch thing today she's like what I didn't know there was
one so oh yeah you have to go they've got like one of the the best spots in uh in Prague one of the
best restaurants um secured so she went along and then I saw her four or five hours later at the
event and she came up and she said she was at the event crying because the ladies on the stage
were talking about motherhood and how you know bitcoin you know just perfectly connects with
with motherhood and uh you know freeing uh the the wife to be a one a wife and to a mother if
you've got financial freedom and the backing of Bitcoin, you can concentrate on being a family.
You don't need both parents. It's not having the baby and giving it up a six-month-day of age to
a carer so both parents can go back out just to survive in this inflationary fiat nightmare.
And that's the kind of, so even as a hardcore Bitcoin, that touched her. So it's not like,
yeah you're right they're going and just talking about bitcoin like geeky men do
they talk about all the things which uh which is amazing uh so yeah jeremy what's um what's one of
the projects then uh it was a columbia one is that the one you wanted to to talk about well i think
there's a couple things that came like came to mind just now like um you know the the overused
but like remains appropriate statement fix the money fix the world it's not just fix the money
it it's what does the outcome become and it's a better world is why we believe in it so much and
you know so i think you see that and what you guys are describing which is more holistic life
and you know i think i don't know a lot of bitcoiners go through this journey where they
get excited about it they think you know they see that it's this opportunity for transformation in
the world and then they want to tell everybody about it and then i don't know if this happened
to you, Daniel, but like at some point when you start telling everybody about it and not everybody
listens, it's a little bit discouraging. And I don't know, I remember like maybe a decade ago or
so there was like a point where I was just like, like, why don't people get this? And at least for
me in that process, what I've learned over time is one of the ways that really, I think, creates
like the catalyst for people to really go down the rabbit hole is they need to see it and use it
and touch it. And so you can have these philosophical arguments, but until somebody
sees it and uses it and touches it, it's hard for people to really like absorb it. And so one of the
things I've kind of done over time, and it's in a way why we support all these circular economies,
is oftentimes like I'll just run into people and I'll be like, look how easy it is to set up a
non-custodial wallet in like 10 seconds. And then let me just send you some tiny amount, right?
And then it creates curiosity. And so so I so me and other people tend to do this. And so anyways, we were sitting at this event that was not a Bitcoin event. It was kind of like a event for really social inclusion. And there was a bunch of like philanthropists there, kind of, you know, movie stars or whatever.
And they invited these in this indigenous community that was from South America, kind of like picture Amazonians to the event, because the event was sort of about healing the planet and making sure you were good stewards.
And I guess there was some water project that was kind of destroying the community.
And so these indigenous people were there and they brought them up to talk.
But then they kind of just left them there.
And I was we were sitting at lunch, Alex and I, and we were with a bunch of people.
and I just noticed that they were all sitting alone. And I was like, I'm super curious. I want
to go talk to these people. So we just walk over and we kind of move from who we were with. And
we're like, let's go hang out with these folks. And we start just conversing with them. And,
and I was like, you know, like, what brings you here? And they said, well, you know, our community
is completely up in the mountains, super far away from kind of like what you would consider
as normal society. And we kind of have everything we want. You know, it's been there for thousands
of years. And I was like, oh, wow, that's so cool. And I said, well, why are you here then,
you know, in the middle of a city talking with all these kind of rich people or whatever?
And they go, well, you know, like, we need to check in every once in a while. The first one is
like, if, you know, you guys do something in some development project that blows up our community,
like, that's not good. So that's why we're here. So the kind of head of the community, I'm like,
that makes sense. And I'm like, well, what else goes on? He goes, well, the other thing is like,
we have this problem with your money. And I said, oh, I know a little bit about that. Tell me more
about that. And he goes, well, he goes, your entire society runs on money. And I'm like,
yeah, also deeper than you think. And he goes, and that's a problem for us. And I go, okay,
what do you mean? He goes, well, we're like this barter society. We've been that way for thousands
of years. And everything is quite good until we actually have to go and interact with you guys.
Because like, you know, we have great medicine that's natural and blah, blah, blah. But like,
you know, something really, really disastrous happens. We do need to like, you know, send people
eight hours down the mountains to the hospital. And to do that, you know, we need to sort out,
you know, transportation and hospital fees. And, you know, like we have no way to interact with you
guys. And, and so I said, well, what do you guys do? And they said, well, you know, like literally,
you know, every couple of months, we'll send people down to the cities and sell crafts and
that sort of thing. And they can, you know, take that weird paper that you guys have, and we put
it under the mattress, almost like insurance, the chiefs literally like they hold it all
until something's required for these villages. It's quite wild. And then he says, but you know,
this is like not good. And you know, like, we don't like how your society all runs on money
and all this stuff. And I was like, wow, that's pretty interesting. So I started talking to them
about Bitcoin and like, you know, these terms like, hey, it's pure money. It's like the barter
system, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was originally a peer to peer like exchange. And
and I could see it's like eyes kind of start glazing back and go, okay, this isn't working.
Strike out again. Don't go there.
And so I was like, no, no, no.
I was like, hey, do you guys have a phone?
And because I wasn't sure, you know, these guys are really remote.
And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The government gave us phones because they put like cell towers like in our jungles or whatever because they like high up And I said oh cool So I said OK like let me try something So I onboard them with the self wallet and he goes here and i just give him some bitcoin and i don think anything
of it and it's like one of you know a bunch of interactions i do and i go about you know my day
and we leave and like a year later they start texting alex and they're like this stuff is so
cool like blah blah blah how do we get more blah blah blah blah we're starting to use it and we
were like what like we just left them to go back to their villages in the middle of you know the
jungle or whatever um and so so they asked us they're like hey can can we get like a little bit
of a crash course and so uh we we brought them to an event that sort of snowballed so we sent them
um uh to peru so this was in the kind of andes near columbia and we started getting indigenous
villagers that hadn't seen like seen each other they had historical roots but hadn't seen each
other than thousands of years. They start bartering back and forth. Then all of the chief villagers
start using it. And the next thing you know, there's like dozens and dozens of villages.
And I was like, these are very like off the radar places. So I was like, well, how many people is
this? And they're like, oh yeah, like hundreds and hundreds per village. And I started doing the math
and I'm like, wait, you have thousands and thousands of people using this completely offline
in your villages, like, non-connected to society?
They're like, yeah, yeah, you sent us pure money,
so we just figured it was easier.
And it's just gone crazy.
Pure money.
Is it worth it?
When we were, because we kind of do an interview to us
to see if we are really genuine and we're working our values.
I'm not sure what's happened to Alex's sound.
You can't really hear Alex at the moment.
Yeah, almost nothing.
now yeah that's better yeah yeah okay better all right so they kind of do an interview in their
language to to us but to me and they want to know what are our values what are the values of bitcoin
and they said this is pure value pure they use it three times and their mammoth who is kind of
like the chief the high priest look at them and said yes this is approved and now like in a couple
of weeks my first bitcoin who we support is going to trust la perla another foundation
and paystand.org to introduce bitcoin to another 70 community leaders so this is how powerful it is
so wow yeah i think i think a couple cool shout outs because like how does the communities kind
of work together like this all builds like we're all part of a movement so it happened the first
time this happened, we went out there and I was like, whoa, this is like intense. Like it might be
written in a history book. I don't want to screw this up. You know, they haven't literally used
money in thousands of years. So we brought our friends like Mike Peterson from Bitcoin Beach
and Vale from Motive, who works with a lot of like indigenous communities. So, you know, a little
bit to like really help with the community leaders, like how does this get done in practice?
So, you know, I think that's really cool because we're all part of, you know, something very special. And then I think the other thing that's really cool is, you know, My First Bitcoin is going out there, which we love, John, we're quite involved with what they do.
And I think, you know, they're a very, very good case study on just, you know, their open source education is a lot of times the front lines for a lot of this grassroots efforts.
You know, and so oftentimes right after your first orange peeling moment, you know, you go, well, now I need to learn about what this thing is.
It's crazy. Jeremy just, you know, put me up on a self-custody wallet and the thing's working like now what?
And so I think my first Bitcoin is like, you know, an incredible kind of tool for change for a lot of these like communities trying to figure out now what, how do we educate more people?
Basically, it's a lot of inspiration. They were the first ones doing a great job on education for young people that is spreading their voice. And now many other countries are taking that and getting to different levels.
Last week, we were talking to another organization that is taking the program from My First Bitcoin and their own research into the vertical of how to get Bitcoin education into tourism, young people, which means that they are not only teaching Bitcoin, which is great, but the blockchain, the why, the mean, all the aspects that are very cool in Bitcoin.
But how can you, while you are working on a restaurant or while you are working on a hotel, can really use it in that vertical?
And they are, this is a very good project also that is right now down in Colombia and is going to Peru.
Working also with Motive to keep working more on how to use Bitcoin in a great vertical that is an economical empowerment,
not only for the society, but also for the country, that is the tourism.
so that is uh another great program and you know i want to mention something we're gonna go for
there's like gano's probably got other things on his mind there's like 40 projects yeah but this
one is cool one more one more come on i love the jungle i like i like this like listen we are in a
corporate world right so this is a technology company blockchain is blah blah blah blah all
that jeremy just explained that i love but it's sometimes difficult to let our employees our staff
to know what we do.
I mean, I have to be honest, Jeremy, right?
Like, come on.
So we started through the foundation
to take our own staff
to be volunteers of the foundation
in the grassroots projects.
And this year,
we are taking them to El Salvador
and to Peru
where they need to do stuff
that is really cool, right?
They need to work directly with the indigents.
They need to work with the woman.
They need to pick up the garbage.
They need to help the training on Bitcoin.
And that is the best way to have really their hearts into our mission and to seem farther than the daily job that sometimes can be tedious, sometimes can be inspirational, sometimes can be too challenging back into what we are really doing here.
and I'm saying this because that was Jeremy's vision probably a year and a half ago like how
can we get our employees to believe and I contact you Daniel and I ask you what are your thoughts on
that and you told me Alex do this do that and nowadays I would say Jeremy that like our
our staff really believe in what we are doing and they are all connected and this year we have to
have a waiting list of people because we couldn't get everybody down to peru and to el salvador to
experience that so this is also a very good program right right are you listening michael
sayler because i guarantee you nobody at microstrategy is well not nobody but very few
people you know very few of his staff would be even orange pill or even really truly understand
what bitcoin is and they'll just be sitting there doing their day-to-day jobs smiling and dialing
trying to get more customers in on their, you know,
the commercial software platform sales. Yeah.
If you're, if you're a Bitcoin company owner,
and I'm not talking about Bitcoin treasury companies,
that's a whole crock of shit. But if you are, if you're a company,
if you're a company that is, you know,
looking after your employees and truly taking your fiduciary duty very,
very seriously and stacking Bitcoin with a little bit of profit that you might be taking each month
it is up to you then to educate your staff and big shout out to Ashley Giles over here in the UK
who runs a consultancy business he's done that with his stuff and he keeps a spreadsheet up of
of the what their pension fund might be worth versus if they'd have stacked
X amount of Bitcoin each month with a little bit of their salary.
So there needs to be more of that initiative for sure.
Lauren, sorry, we've just been blabbering.
Did you have any more questions?
Yeah, the jungle story is great.
Me and Lauren want to come to the jungle
and come and meet some of the chieftains and have a chat.
And I was wondering actually, because there's a bunch of Bitcoiners,
almost, I'd say half the Bitcoiners I meet,
They always ask me in kind of like hushed tones, have you ever done any plant-based medicines?
Well, no, I haven't, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it.
So there's probably a business here in some of these Amazonian tribes where they can earn some stats by inviting Bitcoiners in for some shamanic kind of retreat experience.
I promise.
Yeah, they're going to be the next steps.
Yeah, as a financially regulated entity, what I will say is what you do with your Bitcoin in your own time is your own choices, which is I'm a believer in self-sovereignty, but I'm also publicly on record.
Absolutely. Right. OK, so are you guys.
So I'm now thinking more practically for people listening to this that might be interested in, you know, hooking up with Paystand and getting their business set up.
how does it work? Could you lead us through an example, like existing clients, you don't have
to use names, obviously, but existing clients, how does Paystand work for them? And how could
somebody interact with Paystand if they were listening? Yeah, so Paystand is kind of like
the practical bridge to let's call it normie companies. So normal companies need to operate
to be able to pay bills and get their revenue, right? Like it's kind of the lifeblood of their
business. And so we have kind of the practical tools for the finance teams to use basically
their ability to pay things. So imagine if you have a corporate card. So most Bitcoiners know
like a Gemini card or a Coinbase card, which you might use yourself to be able to pay stuff and
stack sets. In PayStan's case, we have the only corporate card that does that. So the corporate
card is, hey, in PayStan's case, we have 400 and something employees. They all need to be able to
travel, to go to events, to be able to work with partners, to pay marketing. And so we give them a
card to be able to do that. And then the card, what's unique about the card is you can pay your
bills, you can pay your expenses, and then you stack sats. So the loyalty points are in sats.
And then the other thing is when you pay somebody on our network, instead of going through Visa or
MasterCard where it's really expensive and it costs the business money. We consider that a tax.
It goes through our network, which runs on chain on the Bitcoin network. And so that means that the
money moves instead of in five days, it'll move at the speed of light. Instead of it being really
manual, it's super automated because Bitcoin is programmable money. And then it moves without cost.
And that cost issue is a big thing because if you're a company and, you know, if you're a company
and let's say you're a, I don't know, a $10 million company,
you might be paying half a million dollars in fees
to Visa or MasterCard or the banks
just to operate your business.
And that's like a tax.
Like, so we wanna be able to put that money back to the
business so they can hire more people because we believe using Bitcoin is actually valuable.
It's not just storing it, but actually using it.
And so if the company can save money and not pay Visa and MasterCard or the banks, everyone
wins except for those guys.
And we're fine with that.
And so the company becomes more successful.
What kind of could you give us an example of like what kind of sectors are using are using
PayStan?
Yeah, so we're like, we work across the world. So we have 1000 plus large enterprise clients to think about the public companies. We have about a million businesses that pay on the platform. So people say, no one uses Bitcoin, like in the real world. And we kind of laugh and say, actually, it's quite the opposite. Because when technology is magic, it kind of disappears. And so, you know, when you walk in your Uber, you just magically happens, and then you leave and you don't exchange money anymore. And that's how it works.
with us. So, you know, millions of businesses will use that card to pay on us. Thousands of
large companies will use it. Could be anything from a mining manufacturing company in the Bitcoin
space to, you know, a public tech company to a global supply chain company that doesn't want to
pay, you know, FX fees. So all of them will use us to be able to move their money really efficiently.
We say we help real world companies solve real world problems with real world use cases of Bitcoin.
How have the companies found you? Because this is a niche offering, right?
It gives me hope that there's a lot more sleeper Bitcoiners in fiat companies out there that might bring this to the attention of their boardroom, for example.
Yeah, I think one of the, I don't know if it was the right or wrong approach, but we started the company, I think, a lot earlier than maybe the current cohort of companies that people hear about.
And because we really wanted to focus on being a use case and proving that money is not just a store of value, but a medium of exchange, for years and years, that was very complicated because of regulation.
And so we took the approach, instead of talking to a company or a CFO about Bitcoin, they might not have been ready for that.
So for many years, we stopped using the words in the first part of the conversation.
Instead, we'd actually used the end result.
We'd say, hey, wouldn't it be good if you could move money instantly at the speed of light because time is money?
and wouldn't it be money good if you were able to get that money faster so you could run your
business faster and wouldn't it be good if you could you know sort of lower all your costs and
not pay all these unfair fees um you know wouldn't it be good if your money was sovereign and you
owned it and there wasn't a middleman like so so we would use all of the words that a bitcoiner
would use and and then we would just quietly kind of you know go would you would that be worth it
you and they'd say, yeah, I totally want that. Screw Visa or screw the banks or screw the taxes.
Right. So you start to get them really riled up. They just didn't know they were being orange
pilled. So for years, we actually said all of the things that make Bitcoin so unique and special.
We just didn't tell them the thing that was the scary word for them. And, you know, now today,
you know, we're quite a big scaled company. And I think that that was our secret of success was
talking about the value and how it would change and affect and improve their lives, you know,
and eventually they become, you know, the ideologues we are too, but, you know, start
with how it'll change their life and then they'll become curious.
So.
Excellent.
So you've got, you've got a way to find businesses and to, you know, completely convince them.
But then what, what, what about the project side of thing, things, Alexandra, how do you
find the projects because they they don't come flooding right they obviously the the amazonian
chieftains was uh was an outlier well that's a that's a great question because we travel
a lot all the time and a just going with our phones which is something that i learned from
Jeremy and saying, talking a little bit about, do you use Bitcoin? And then they say no. And we
as we explain in a very easy way, why so easy to change money? I'm in the United States,
you're in Costa Rica, and you are here, you're here. Do you want to try it? It sparks curiosity
on them, right? And then they are like, but I have a business, but I have a community.
A beautiful example of that is we were in a place called La Comuna 13 in Medellin.
Medellin is this big place where all narcotrafficking, and for you, Lauren, was happening a long time ago, Pablo Escobar,
like huge narcotrafficking problems were there, and I was there.
I am from Colombia.
So when I'm there, I take Jeremy to see the place La Comuna 13, which was a scary place, guys.
like was full of gangs no one could go to that place and then my family said you have to go to
la comuna trece and i'm like really and we go there and it's totally the most amazing place
full of culture music art it's like it's like hilarious like being in france in a beautiful
place full of coffees restaurant colors a joy etc etc and we walk there and i am in love for one
jacket and I asked them do you guys get bitcoin and they're like so I am like let me explain to
you very quickly this is it do you want to let me help you to open that they open their wallet
we pay in bitcoin we got more things and then they uh whatsapp me and say like this is really cool
how can we train all the small businesses here to use bitcoin because right now that place is full
of tourists that are visiting because of course,
Medellin is a hot place for the history
with the narcotraffic thing right now
in one of the best cities in the world
in terms of technology, culture, et cetera, et cetera.
And we are leading a new project.
So we connect my first Bitcoin,
we connect the NGO that we work with
and then they can do the work.
So it's amazing to see how you can be an ambassador
and then the need is there.
It's just everybody could be a Bitcoiner.
Eventually, everybody is going to be a Bitcoiner.
It's just that they just don't know, right?
This is number one.
And the number two thing is, I will say, the partnership, Jeremy.
Yeah, and I think one of the things I would say with that on that is, you know, how does like my day job, I work in, you know, corporate America with big finance and that sort of thing.
Like, where do these touch?
I think it might be non-obvious that the Bitcoin community is quite a big tent, but it also like the adoption on each side actually helps each other.
So, you know, most of my day job, you know, Alex gets to talk about all these beautiful stories that you guys could like hear for hours.
But most of the time I'm like busy talking to bankers, to Wall Street people, to big corporations.
And, you know, we're sitting literally in Silicon Valley right now, which is kind of the heart of our company.
And even in the heart of technology, there is massive, even today, skepticism in Bitcoin.
They might say, oh, stable coins or blockchain, but Bitcoin.
And so one of the things I started doing over time was realize people needed to see that it was real.
Number go up might spark curiosity for some people but a lot of people just really didn feel like there was a real use case So one of the things that we would do is you know we partner with on our normal company with companies
like Oracle and Microsoft and Sage and Salesforce and kind of big companies like that. And that's
oftentimes how we'll get, you know, customers. And, you know, we've been talking to folks like
that. And I said, hey, you guys need to come and just see it. You're so skeptical, but let me take
you to places where in the middle of nowhere, it's more advanced than Silicon Valley. And they would
look at me like, are you crazy? And I'd say, no, no, no. Like you guys think that fintech is like a
big thing, but actually you're just like a pretty UI on top of banks, you know, and they would get
very offended by that. And I'd go, well, come see. And so I started doing kind of the opposite of the
fellowship that she's talking about with our employees. I started doing like, I don't know
what to describe it, like pilgrimages where I started bringing like CEOs down to these places,
You know, CEOs of banks, board members, VCs, and they'd be very nervous, but, you know, we take them. So we did a trip somewhat recently where we took, you know, a bunch of VCs, a bunch of investors, CEOs down to El Zante.
You know, and I think seeing you walk through and be able to immediately pay your taxes instantly, go to a small town where you can buy your pupusas, buy your chicken, like these things.
And then we would do these cases where we'd like talk to the business owners that are small businesses like she just described.
And they would go like, what are you doing when the volatility is so high?
Like, how do you deal with that?
and and the pupusaria lady would just be like yeah uh volatility but now i've been making pupusas
like for five years with this and you know i own a pupusa empire so uh volatility on the way up
has been fine with us i understand inflation and hedging more better than you do like you know so
it's like a complete mind shift um and so you know those two communities you would be surprised at
how much they build on each other that's awesome right lauren did you want to hang around or did
you want to um i think i am going to skedaddle now but thank you for our sister's doing
yeah exactly no i went yeah you asked about caitlin an hour and 15 minutes ago
i'm glad i stayed for the stories but um i think i'm gonna get it now but yeah thank you
thank you have a good day bye lauren i hope to see you here soon
yes for sure that'd be great uh yeah we'll send sophia through
next and then uh lauren and samuel they can come over when um when they're a little bit older
and uh it'll be awesome keep making a tribe dan just keep you know
this is this is danielan inspiration to us like seeing you and your family
on events and all together and supporting the young and supporting kids this is something
literally amazing I do remember that because you were my inspiration I got two of my three kids to
down to El Salvador to one of our executive uh and volunteer programs and one of the uh people
ask me why are you bringing your kids isn't that weird like you know like and they were like
totally the opposite like it's an experience to them they get to live this together they are
going to become ambassadors that was a long time ago and right now it's true like other other uh
part of our stuff they are like hey i really really would love to bring my entire family to
the next trip how can i do that this is incredible so what you guys do was is a real inspiration to
to know that this is a family thing right yeah it totally is and thank you for saying that that's
uh that's very humbling um it was a pretty lonely place to be for a family a bitcoin conference in
the first couple that we went to but then people catch on and they're like well i'm gonna bring my
wife and kids the next one and by by the time we got around to madeira that um that they did such
a great job andre and the guys putting that together with the they even had a little kids tent
uh where the kids were interviewing uh bitcoiners up on the stage they had jackomo zucco up on the
stage answering questions and jack malas as well and uh it was just so great to see because
uh and invariably with the younger kids the parents would have to be with the younger kids
And the younger kids went, I want to be in that tent.
What have got the games going on?
They're all Bitcoin educational games.
And then you've got these guys up.
I remember parents telling me, like, I had to come in this tent because they wanted to come in this.
The Jack of mine on stage.
This is like, it's giving me goosebumps.
This is amazing.
And now you go to the conferences and there's way more families.
We were just in Prague and there was a lot of families that turned up there and a lot of first timers as well that had never been to a Bitcoin meetup,
had never been to a conference.
So it's happening.
It's grassroots stuff.
And it's really great to see.
And I just hope more conference organizers
take a leaf out of Free Madeira's book
and just give the kids a space.
And when I say kids,
anything from five to 20, whatever,
give them a space,
put the responsibility on them
to curate a program,
have them make the reach out,
literally wait on the side of the stage
and wait for one of the speakers to come off
and just say, would you come to,
they're going to say yes every time,
every single time they're going to say yes.
And it makes it such a special moment
for all of the conferences.
So to try and start wrapping it up, I guess,
would be to ask you a practical question
on the business side and on the foundation side.
So we'll start with you, Alexandra.
How can people apply if they've been listening,
if they're running some kind of project
or they've got something in mind
to start a Bitcoin communal economy,
how can they reach out and apply?
Is there minimum requirements or is it just a phone call?
Just talk us through it.
Well, it's not that complicated.
We just finished the second allocation for the year.
So the next year round starts in November.
So usually people just go by our website, paystand.org,
and there is a forum there that has a couple of questions.
If they want to reach out to me,
I am always very happy with one of our team to talk to them,
to explain to them why it's important, how we work.
But in general, Alexandra at paystand.org is my email.
But if you just go by paystand.org,
they can see all that we are doing, who we are supporting.
The grants have different average.
depending on the NGO that is working with us.
Something that is important is that some of the grants we do it in Bitcoin,
but we are also, of course, open to do that in fiat.
They need to be supporting circular economies, Bitcoin adoption in underrepresented communities.
It doesn't matter if it's to women, to men, to kids, to small businesses,
or through, you know, like the goal is the goal to advance and accelerate the use of Bitcoin
and give more financial inclusion to underrepresented communities.
And it's very easy after that.
Our committee get together and depending on the budget,
we guide the NGO to put a better scope of work or we help them.
And we notice that some NGOs not only need the grants,
which is of course amazing for them to receive some money but we support them also with different programs with the Women Brunch For example if they need some support to bring more women we support them with uh programs as mentors so if they need
mentors we do that if they need internships that can come and work with our own team that's another
thing that we do if they need a special consultant to work on their marketing so we are able to
to support with that.
So we want to make sure that this is a relationship of trust
and we want to meet with their needs.
It's not that we are imposing anything.
It's that we want to meet with their needs.
And when we understand their needs, it becomes more like a friendship.
What do you need that we can support?
What is the scope of work?
And something that we ask in return is let's make sure that we have a conversation
like a monthly, by week, by monthly, or maybe once every semester, a conversation, and send us
reports that you are, that your outcomes are your vision. So tell us how was the outcome that you
have with the grant that we sent. We do a max of three-year program because we want to make sure
that the NGO keep growing itself and look for another allocation of sources, not only rely on us,
but rely on the great work that they are doing.
So it's easy, it's simple.
We are super, super approachable
and we hope to support more NGOs next year for sure.
Amazing.
And Jeremy, on the business side of things,
for all of the Bitcoiners listening to this right now
that are that Bitcoiner within the business
and want, you know, they understand
to save this business,
Like we talked about, you know, like the fiduciary duty of looking after that business and making sure it's still going to be around in five to 15 to 25 years time.
The only way that they are going to guarantee that is if there is Bitcoin getting stacked on that balance sheet or if they start cutting the costs, like you explained, by using Paystand.
How can they effectively approach you guys to be able to use you guys and your stories and success stories to then take to the boardroom?
Yeah. So simply go to paystand.com. And we have a family of companies that we support so we can
route them to the right teams, whether it's our payables and AP and expense, the corporate card,
or they want to use us to receive revenue or to do capital allocations or treasury. These are all
services we support. So go to paystand.com. I'm also fairly easy to get a hold of. I'm on Twitter,
X at Jeremy Almond. And then if you're, you know, if you're trying to slowly orange pill your boss,
Daniel talked about at the beginning, I'd asked him for advice. I don't know, a year, two years
ago, because I started doing a podcast that wasn't really aimed at Bitcoiners, but was actually aimed
at kind of normie business people to start understanding the use cases in the language.
And that's called Redefined. And you can go to YouTube to go to Redefined. And that's really
like to see focused on business people, what are business use cases? Because oftentimes that's the
first way they like understand it. Oh, I can save money. I can save FX fees. I can save, you know,
I can be able to move my goods and services sooner. I can, you know, help my mining business
operate cheaper, or I can access capital better, or I need to learn about treasury. Like all of
these are kind of things that we'll focus on for the business audience. And so that's at Redefined
on YouTube and Spotify and those sorts of places.
But yeah, I think we at Paystand, maybe to wrap up,
our view is even if you're not a customer of us,
what we hope we can maybe,
we did this for a long time quietly
and maybe we're starting to talk about it
a little bit more now,
is show that there can be realignment of incentives
for capital companies to then go back
and give back to the community as well.
And so if nothing else,
we hope we can be a little bit of like a good neighbor
in the area for too long.
Companies, especially financial service companies,
just they existed to amass wealth
and sort of a winner take all game.
And so what we wanted to show and prove
was Bitcoin is about incentive alignment.
It's about sort of creating more access.
And so shouldn't the companies represent that too?
And so we hope even if somebody is not a customer of ours, they can take this mentality back to their company, their job, their work, that their work has meaning and value.
And then those who are blessed should be a blessing to others.
And so hopefully other companies follow the model that we're doing with Paystand and paystand.org.
Yeah, I hope so, too.
So well done.
Excellent work.
Really enjoyed this conversation.
Having you both on.
But there's one final question for you to tackle.
and you'll have to argue over who goes first.
Okay.
That's not hard for us to do that.
Okay.
So if you had one last orange pill left to give to somebody,
who would you give it to and why?
Oh, my gosh.
Ouch.
That was hard, Daniel.
One last?
One.
And I can't reach out to anybody in the world?
Mm-hmm.
can i be super honest yep
i
i will go to the pope to the catholic pope and orange peel him there is so much
that community that is changing,
that has hope,
that reach out to people in many different ways,
from donations to power,
to influence, to spiritual direction,
that I would love to be able to reach out to him
and say the same principles.
It's just for financial inclusion
and you have to be part of this.
Love it.
Well, next, the next pope that gets chosen, there might be orange smoke that comes out the top of the Vatican.
I love it. I love it. I love it.
Danny wanted me to argue, but like that's that's that's hard to beat.
So, you know, I think what I would say is one of the most fundamental things to me is Bitcoin is hope.
And so I think it's hard to argue with that answer because what I've seen is the people that drove the Bitcoin adoption the most were on the front lines,
whether it's Michael Petersons of the world
or other people that are kind of quiet about it
because ultimately what they're doing is delivering hope.
And that's the outcome Bitcoin brings.
So whether it's the Pope or anybody else
that's on the mission field
that is sort of driving life change,
I think Bitcoin is the tool to do that.
And so orange smoke, it is.
Yeah, love it.
You know everybody.
Yes, I don't know the Pope just yet.
It happened.
I like the ambition.
He said, I don't know the Pope just yet.
Just yet.
Okay, so I know it's going to happen.
Will you be at any events?
Will people be able to run into you and see you in real life?
Have you got anything coming up, anything planned?
And then we'll end it there.
Yeah, we have many events.
The next one, we are going to be in Bitcoin Asia.
is speaking oh my gosh we have like 10 speaking engagements but the one that is coming up to me
right now is El Salvador we're going to be together there I hope that you are there too
with us this year and a Tina I think is coming up as well we going to Argentina and being you are going to be speaking in november there those two are the ones that are coming up to my mind right now do
you have any other one that you remember yeah there's a bunch but there is a bunch but let's
stick with salvador in november it's a great invitation for everybody to be in el salvador
in la cuna la mecca where so many underrepresented communities government education minister
nonprofits, NGOs, great people
is coming together to talk
about Bitcoin and economic
empowerment. And then
Argentina, which is amazing, like
one of the leaders on
cryptocurrencies,
Bitcoiners that are
leading this in the first
Bitcoin conference
in November. So it's two great
opportunities.
Love it. Well, thank you both for coming on.
And for anybody listening, yeah,
Get over to paystand.org or paystand.com and get to know Jeremy and Alexandra a little bit better.
And congratulations on everything that you've achieved on both the business side and on the philanthropic side of things.
And thank you again for giving Caitlin the opportunity for this internship.
It's been a pivotal moment, I'm sure, in her young adult life.
Thank you, Daniel, for what you do, for spreading the voice, for helping so many people, communities, leaders, companies to get to know more the work about Bitcoin.
You and your family are an inspiration to us.
And having Kaylan has been such a delight.
They often say you know somebody's kind of inner soul by how their kids turn out.
And I would say, Daniel, we know each other a bit, but I have a pretty good sense on what your actual home life is and what your actual core values are because your daughter is incredible.
So much love to you.
Keep doing your mission, buddy.
We appreciate you.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate you both.
Very kind words.
Thank you.
Cheers.
Thank you, Daniel.
Well, thank you, everybody, for listening.
And thank you again, Jeremy and Alexandra, for coming on and talking us through that.
Like I said, if you want to get over and learn about more what the foundation is doing, it's paystand.org.
They're helping so many different projects.
I'll call a few out.
Mi Prima Bitcoin, obviously one of the big ones.
I'm sure people have heard of that.
Led up by John Dennehy over in El Salvador.
Doing the best that they can to educate as many young people as possible about Bitcoin.
Hope House in El Zante.
They are partnered with Largo Bitcoin Motive in Peru.
I've had Richard on from that project before.
Free Madeira.
They're partnered with Free Madeira to help build out that circular economy over there as well.
There's Sports Light, Digital Nest, Bitcoin School Argentina, Citadel of Hope.
Stuff you've not heard of.
It's so exciting.
it's so rewarding and uplifting to hear these stories of all of the work that's going on in
the background by people you might not have even knew existed and paystand jeremy correctly
described it as a bit of a sleeping giant in the bitcoin space and if you are a sleeper bitcoiner
in your company i hope you've listened to this and i hope you've got a lot of inspiration from it
and you can reach out to paystand and you can reach out to these guys and see if there's any
way that you can help your company in your boardroom get on board with the idea like we can
use this company who are using the bitcoin rails behind the scenes on our behalf to save us a ton
of money who wouldn't do that that's just a touch point that's a boardroom touch point about how
Bitcoin can save your business money, give you a longer runway, make you more competitive, give you
that edge, be able to then focus on different things like improving. Every company should exist
just to figure out how do we improve our product, our service. That's all you should be able to do.
But the thing is, you can't because you're putting out fires all of the time because of inflation and
regulation policies and you're trying to hit this numbers quarter and this quarter's number excuse
me and all of these fiat games that you get sucked into whereas if you are protecting yourself with
a bitcoin standard in the background or in this case you're just using a company like paystand to
save you money and have that initial touch point the the orange pill that the bitcoin mine virus
we'll do the rest of the work but just introducing these ideas is of paramount importance and it used
to be a career risk to come up with these ideas and present something like this in the boardroom
or to your manager or whoever you just get laughed at and side-eyed not anymore no way
people are hungry they want to know and especially if it's going to save them money like it's not
not about right if we invest in bitcoin and uh it's going to go up and we're all going to be
millionaires and we'll be able to you know buy our competitors out is that no no no no you just can
protect your business and you will grow and you can grow you can concentrate on growing organically
and what would the the fund side of the business the uh the paystand.org uh which uh my daughter
was lucky enough to as you picked up there in the conversation to go across and see with her own eyes
what's happening you know it's so tangible that that's when bitcoin becomes real when you see
people using it as a medium of exchange and lifting them out of poverty and giving them the
tools where they can concentrate on their work and they can commit more time to their families
who could argue with that
so
for
if you're still on the fence
if you're still the quiet bitcoiner
I hope this episode
has helped you
you've got troops on your side
never doubt
what you're going to bring to the table
you might get side eyed and laughed at for a few weeks
or a few months but in the end
you will always be remembered
and yeah
take that with you that's the final message i hope everybody enjoyed the show please check out
relay if you're looking to stack some sats across europe r-e-l-a-i.ch forward slash bitten
please secure your bitcoin i cannot be more serious about this topic if you've not taken
self-custody it's very simple you get to bitbox.swiss forward slash bitten you order the bitbox
X02 or the Bitbox Nova.
You type in the code BITTON.
They ship it to you.
You get 5% off and you start your self-custody journey.
Get over to paywithflash.com if you want to start accepting Bitcoin.
And Orange Pill App.
Growing like a weed.
18,000 Bitcoiners across the world.
It's getting better and better.
More and more updates are being pushed out.
I've been a part of that team.
Pushing it.
Coming up with ideas for two years.
Well done, Matteo.
well done the team for everything that you've done to put this together it's been an absolute
pleasure to watch you all grow and uh even if even if my ideas aren't always the best in the world
Matteo uh I'm always there to uh to lend a hand so I'd love for you listeners to go and check out
Orange Pill App come and find us on there and find your local Bitcoiners find your meetups
build these circular economies start using Bitcoin as a medium exchange and that's all I
got to say thank you very much for listening