1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,660 making sure that I say things in the right manner anymore. 2 00:00:04,580 --> 00:00:13,160 Well, I think that very thing causes a lot of men to, you know, they're tiptoeing around in the university. 3 00:00:13,460 --> 00:00:18,000 Now, I work in a university environment, so, you know, I see that aspect of the world. 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:27,300 Maybe my aspect is different, but I see men, you know, almost cowering on university campuses because of fear. 5 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:31,540 or they might say the wrong thing, or get canceled, or whatever else goes on. 6 00:00:31,540 --> 00:00:58,860 all right everybody welcome back to another episode of the space tomatoes podcast 7 00:00:59,740 --> 00:01:01,940 I'm Havoc, and we've got your other host. 8 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:03,740 Alex, hello. Welcome. 9 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,080 And today we have a special guest, Dr. Mark J. Defont. 10 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,760 He is a professor of geology and geochemistry at the University of South Florida. 11 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,240 Welcome to the show, Mark. 12 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,280 Well, good to be here. Thank you for having me. 13 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:21,180 Awesome, awesome. 14 00:01:21,180 --> 00:01:29,380 So, found each other on Podmatch, and you have a new paper you've published. 15 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,840 You want to give us a little overview? 16 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:34,260 Sure. 17 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:35,960 You mean about the paper? 18 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:37,000 Yes, sir. 19 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:37,680 Okay. 20 00:01:39,060 --> 00:01:46,680 Well, I got interested in evolution of psychology a long time ago, and of reason, I've just 21 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:53,880 been reading an immense amount on it and started to feel like I had the background to publish 22 00:01:53,880 --> 00:02:01,020 papers in it. As you alluded to when you introduced me, I'm not really by training an evolutionary 23 00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:10,340 psychologist. My expertise is in geochemistry and I studied volcanoes for years. But evolutionary 24 00:02:10,340 --> 00:02:15,540 psychology got me so interested, I kind of now dabble in it. One of the things that 25 00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:23,760 struck me was that feminists were attacking a whole field of evolutionary psychology. And I 26 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:30,820 started delving into it in the feminist literature and realized that it was really because evolutionary 27 00:02:30,820 --> 00:02:39,240 psychology was not agreeing with their ideology. It wasn't a matter that they were finding 28 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:45,760 evidence to suggest that evolutionary psychology was wrong. In fact, I've seen in the feminist 29 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,120 literature where they're saying, hey, you know, I can see why people are interested in this. 30 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:58,060 It does ring true, but we've got to stop this messaging right away because, 31 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:04,160 you know, it doesn't go along with what we want. And that's, in my opinion, that's the wrong way 32 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:12,780 to take science. I'm really science first kind of world. So I make all my decisions based on, 33 00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:17,380 you know, what science tells me and what the data tells me. And coming from, you know, 34 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:25,460 a research background in science, I feel like maybe I bring a fairly unique set of tools, 35 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:33,840 you know, to the table about evolutionary psychology and social constructionism. I got 36 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:40,660 of fly flying around here. Anyway, we're in Florida, so that's what you expect. So, 37 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:50,480 ultimately, feminists are promoting this idea of social constructionism. Do you or your audience, 38 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,600 you think they know anything about this? Or is that something I should go into? 39 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:56,700 Yeah, let's go into it. 40 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:58,880 Go ahead and go into that a bit. 41 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:06,100 Social constructionism is this idea that we're born with a blank slate. 42 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,900 We have no instincts. 43 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:11,440 We learn everything through culture. 44 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:21,060 And it's actually, you know, the complete opposite of what evolutionary psychology is saying, 45 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:26,180 that, you know, we come into the world with a lot of instincts and behaviors, 46 00:04:26,180 --> 00:04:38,520 primarily masculinity and femininity are actually behaviors, so to speak, that we've inherited from 47 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:45,560 thousands and thousands of years, hundreds of thousands really, of evolution in hunter-gatherer 48 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:54,760 society. So civilization has just been too short for evolution to have impact us, the 10,000 years 49 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:02,520 of civilization from an evolutionary perspective has not had time to select for different behaviors. 50 00:05:03,140 --> 00:05:11,300 So we kind of bring into civilization a caveman kind of mentality, if you will, and those are 51 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:20,700 left over from what was needed to survive in hunter-gatherer society. And that ultimately 52 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:29,900 seems to fly in the face of what feminists want society to be. And I think that one thing is doing 53 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:35,760 an immense amount of harm to young men in particular, but also I think to young women, 54 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:44,700 because it misunderstands what evolutionary psychology is about. We're not trying to say 55 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:52,960 we need to behave the way hunter-gatherers did. It's just that we have to recognize that we have 56 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,500 some of the characteristics that evolved in hunter-gatherer society that we bring in today 57 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:08,240 that forms our opinions and our ideas on society. And I'd like to eventually get into some of that 58 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:15,680 if you agree. But ultimately, I think that's the bugaboo with the feminists. And when I started 59 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:24,540 looking at the feminist literature, I really saw a lack of rigor in their approach. Social 60 00:06:24,540 --> 00:06:31,500 construction doesn't offer, or at least what they're saying social construction is, doesn't 61 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:39,660 offer any alternatives data-wise. I never hear when I'm talking to a social constructionist, 62 00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:47,760 I never hear from them, oh, well, here's the evidence that suggests that social constructionism 63 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:55,020 is correct. They simply argue against evolutionary psychology. And a lot of the ways they argue 64 00:06:55,020 --> 00:07:02,560 against evolutionary psychology is simply that it doesn't agree with their ideology and that 65 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:07,380 sometimes they'll even say that it's trying to take us backwards. It's not. It's just trying to 66 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:15,780 tell us that we may have been selected in the past for behaving this way, and we have to deal 67 00:07:15,780 --> 00:07:24,600 with that in society. Whether we want to act in that way or not is up to us, but we should know 68 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:33,160 about it. So when you say, I guess one thing I would like to clarify and have some clarification 69 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:39,720 on, right? I think you've got the more classical feminist, which I think there is a good deal of 70 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:47,540 rigor in those studies, which is, you know, what brought about the civil rights movements, 71 00:07:47,540 --> 00:07:53,300 et cetera, right? And I think there's a good amount of information in those that are in the 72 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:57,860 classical that I see there could be benefit to. 73 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,800 So when you're talking about this particular field, 74 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:08,160 you're talking about more of the, I guess I would try and use the term 75 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,020 neo-feminists, right? 76 00:08:11,460 --> 00:08:16,860 I'm not sure I would separate them because this attitude towards evolutionary 77 00:08:16,860 --> 00:08:22,520 psychology has really been around since almost the second wave of feminism 78 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:29,720 back in the 60s. So, no, I don't think I would separate my criticism. I think that 79 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:41,520 what the feminists have done in giving a great deal of freedom to women is an outstanding 80 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:49,760 thing. And I think that you will find that I'm in favor of all the good things that have happened 81 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:59,660 to women because of equal rights. But from a scientific perspective, I'm worried about what 82 00:08:59,660 --> 00:09:05,780 we're teaching our students or what feminist studies is teaching our students. And it doesn't 83 00:09:05,780 --> 00:09:10,500 seem to be related much to the truth. And we can go into the specifics if you'd like. And I appreciate 84 00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:15,720 you bringing that up because I don't want people to think that I'm against women. I'm certainly not. 85 00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:17,880 I'm married to a woman. 86 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,800 I have a daughter. 87 00:09:20,060 --> 00:09:20,980 I have a sister. 88 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,220 Had a mother at one time, so, you know. 89 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:24,100 No way. 90 00:09:24,740 --> 00:09:25,480 I don't think I'm well. 91 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:26,220 Yeah. 92 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:27,240 You too? 93 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:27,760 I'm weird that way. 94 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:31,080 All right. 95 00:09:31,180 --> 00:09:37,640 Well, I guess one of the other things that I was, man, it'll come back to me. 96 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,800 I think I just blew a few bits off the hard drive there. 97 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:45,280 LX? 98 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:53,240 No, I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around what the social constructionism whole concept is. 99 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:55,540 So you can tell me if I'm wrong. 100 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:09,240 So basically what they're saying is that gender roles are basically just how you're raised and nothing biological component to that at all? 101 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,480 Is that what that is? 102 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:11,420 Completely. 103 00:10:12,020 --> 00:10:12,380 Okay. 104 00:10:12,380 --> 00:10:16,160 You can see where I'm kind of going crazy here. 105 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:28,240 I think because typically since the beginning of time, and I'm not saying that there are definitely outliers in that, especially at this point in time, but women have basically raised children. 106 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:35,700 And that's what they were biologically kind of designed for and the men protected and provided for the women. 107 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:36,880 If I'm wrong. 108 00:10:37,540 --> 00:10:38,800 No, I don't think you're wrong. 109 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:39,920 I think you're right on. 110 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,580 And I, you know, well, I interrupted you, did I? 111 00:10:46,060 --> 00:10:46,620 No, no. 112 00:10:46,940 --> 00:10:47,560 It's fine. 113 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:48,540 No, I meant Havoc. 114 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:49,760 No, it's fine. 115 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:50,680 Okay. 116 00:10:51,180 --> 00:10:54,740 I guess one thing I was, okay, since you opened it up. 117 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,280 One thing I was going to say is I definitely agree, right? 118 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,060 I mean, there's definitely instinct. 119 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:18,040 There are patterns that come from thousands of years of evolution of existence, I guess, that kind of predefine some traits and characteristics. 120 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:41,400 Right. And I think, you know, society at large, modern society at large does quite a lot to soften those instincts to use that social constructionism, etc. to modify some of the innate behaviors, etc. 121 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:47,340 right and and i think that's not always a bad thing if you look at it uh i think we were far 122 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:54,500 more predisposed to violence uh back in the hunter gatherer days if you encroach on my territory 123 00:11:54,500 --> 00:12:01,680 you're a threat that needs to be eliminated uh whereas now we you know have more tolerance for 124 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:12,300 that and we use a system that is more i i guess you know kind i don't know that's debatable there's 125 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:20,260 still quite a few violent people out there 100 true but i guess the point i'm making is is that 126 00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:25,180 that has to also be considered in part as part of this right i mean even evolutionary psychologists 127 00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:28,320 would have to admit that, yes, those traits exist. 128 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,260 However, as we grow up, even just a homeschooled child, 129 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:37,520 their parents are going to influence some of that instinctual behavior 130 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:43,680 to become more positively channeled for children, right? 131 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:52,640 So that it's not this, you know, I guess tribal, you know, 132 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:58,620 type of, you know, warring clans, if you will? 133 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,840 Well, you know, I'm not sure I know how to respond to that. 134 00:13:06,460 --> 00:13:12,760 First of all, no one would ever say, I think, no evolutionary psychologists anyway, would 135 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,720 say that culture is not important. 136 00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:15,240 It is. 137 00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:21,340 The very fact that we have things like money means that there's social construction going 138 00:13:21,340 --> 00:13:21,740 on. 139 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:31,560 money has no value unless we give it value in society. However, I find it kind of strange 140 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:38,920 that people would say, okay, if you're masculine, culture made you that way, 141 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:48,960 when in fact masculinity is strongly tied to testosterone. And testosterone is 10 times 142 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:55,300 higher in males than females. And there's no question that testosterone tends to make men 143 00:13:55,300 --> 00:14:04,520 more violent. But for the feminists and those that agree with the feminists to say that men 144 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:13,440 are toxic because some men are violent is simply wrong, in my opinion. And yes, a gentler world is 145 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:23,760 better than a violent world, but we also should give some breath here to our instincts and be 146 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:31,020 careful because there are some good things about masculinity, you know, being that you need to get 147 00:14:31,020 --> 00:14:37,780 violent sometimes to protect your family if they're attacked or, you know, anyone that wants to take 148 00:14:37,780 --> 00:14:45,480 freedom away from us, for example. We may want to think twice about not being violent. So I would 149 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:55,100 say ultimately, I would agree with you, but I would caution that sometimes these things seem 150 00:14:55,100 --> 00:15:03,340 too good to be true. For example, and Alex, I think you mentioned it, you know, 151 00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:16,180 So culture is important, but if you turn out to be gay, I've failed to see how culture kind of impacted you to be gay. 152 00:15:16,180 --> 00:15:28,740 And yet that's basically what the feminists are saying, because if you talk to gays, for example, they would say, oh, I'm that way because I was born that way. 153 00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:31,380 And I think that there's probably a lot of truth in that. 154 00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:39,080 the wiring may get screwed up somewhere, or some of it might be, you know, there's been some evidence 155 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:46,240 that suggests that there's a role played by genetics in this. So, it's hard then to see 156 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:55,220 how society could make someone gay when, in fact, everybody's reinforced for being, or used to be 157 00:15:55,220 --> 00:16:00,820 anyway, everybody was reinforced for being straight, and there was a lot of anti-reinforcement 158 00:16:00,820 --> 00:16:06,260 for those that weren't straight. I mean, look at Turing. He basically killed himself because 159 00:16:06,260 --> 00:16:16,080 society was so cruel to him. So, yeah, I think we can say most definitely that a lot of the way we 160 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:25,520 are is due to genetics and to the processes that come from genetics, like being bathed in 161 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,980 testosterone when we're infants. Before we're even born, we get bathed, I think it's in the 162 00:16:30,980 --> 00:16:38,060 sixth week, in testosterone if we're males and we don't if we're females. And then again, we get 163 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:47,900 bathed in testosterone once we hit puberty. And this is something that I've never been able to 164 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:53,700 understand from the feminists when they start talking about social constructionism. It seems 165 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:55,820 like these kinds of things are ignored. 166 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,460 And I'll just kind of leave it there. 167 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,740 Yeah, that's absolutely. 168 00:17:03,020 --> 00:17:04,860 And no disagreement here, right? 169 00:17:04,860 --> 00:17:15,840 I think there's some truth in both sides, 170 00:17:15,940 --> 00:17:21,680 and I think that it would be counter to ignore 171 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:30,840 our biology, right? I mean, at the end of the day, you know, as you said, right? Testosterone. 172 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:38,360 And I think it is, I remember it's in that, I think, yeah, first trimester that you get that 173 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:46,660 big wash of testosterone. And like you said, at puberty as well, that's biology, right? The male 174 00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:52,900 physiology is doing this to prepare the body as it grows and changes. 175 00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,720 Well our brains are literally different too than females. 176 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:10,476 Yeah and a lot of our drives and desires and obviously these are all generalizations There are outliers everywhere right Always So I want to make sure that we acknowledge that that is the case 177 00:18:10,636 --> 00:18:12,516 Well, that's why I was talking about gay men. 178 00:18:12,996 --> 00:18:15,316 Or women, sure, yeah. 179 00:18:15,376 --> 00:18:16,496 Or gay women, yeah. 180 00:18:16,496 --> 00:18:31,096 Yeah, it's, you know, but to be able to identify things that are, you know, very much the nature of our physiology as a human, right? And that's not changeable. 181 00:18:31,096 --> 00:18:48,336 So so I guess. So what do you think? What do you think is a workable a workable solution to this that? So, OK, higher higher learning. Right. 182 00:18:48,336 --> 00:19:04,876 There are, without question, elective classes out there that I always question. There are courses and minors that are out there that I'm not certain why, but hey, it's an interesting subject or topic. 183 00:19:04,876 --> 00:19:23,656 So given that, what do you think is a reasonable way to kind of, you know, take this super tanker because education operates a lot like government does. And once it starts down a direction, it doesn't just, you know, flip a U-turn and go the other way. 184 00:19:23,656 --> 00:19:35,776 So what do you think are reasonable ways to start to steer that tanker so that it starts going more towards something that has scientific rigor? 185 00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:41,616 And I hesitate to even use scientific as well because I think a lot of these are arts, right? 186 00:19:43,616 --> 00:19:46,616 What would be an art? I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing. 187 00:19:46,616 --> 00:19:54,076 Aren't like some of the more, you know, what are we, fourth or fifth way of feminism? 188 00:19:54,696 --> 00:19:58,456 Aren't they more, you know, like art studies? 189 00:19:58,676 --> 00:20:01,336 They're not grounded in science, right? 190 00:20:04,036 --> 00:20:04,936 Like psychology. 191 00:20:05,316 --> 00:20:12,196 If they are grounded in science, I mean, if they're in the arts, I can't speak to it. 192 00:20:12,436 --> 00:20:12,656 Okay. 193 00:20:12,656 --> 00:20:15,956 So my take on that, right? 194 00:20:15,956 --> 00:20:19,056 It is like psychology as a degree is an art major, right? 195 00:20:19,116 --> 00:20:21,476 It's a Bachelor of Arts or a Master's of Arts. 196 00:20:21,576 --> 00:20:22,336 No, it is science. 197 00:20:22,976 --> 00:20:25,256 Well, it's in the social sciences. 198 00:20:25,556 --> 00:20:26,836 Okay, social sciences. 199 00:20:26,836 --> 00:20:30,556 But evolutionary psychology is beginning to have an impact on it. 200 00:20:30,656 --> 00:20:33,336 It's becoming much more rigorous with time. 201 00:20:33,896 --> 00:20:37,216 There will be a lot of psychologists that would be irritated by that statement. 202 00:20:37,496 --> 00:20:38,316 Well, that's all right. 203 00:20:38,736 --> 00:20:40,296 I hope they're impacting it. 204 00:20:40,736 --> 00:20:43,236 So I know this would be a horrible experiment to do. 205 00:20:43,316 --> 00:20:44,596 I don't know if it's ever been done before, 206 00:20:44,596 --> 00:20:49,976 but are there any cases of like children being reared by not being in a social construct? 207 00:20:50,136 --> 00:20:54,536 And what would result from that, like a feral child or something like that? 208 00:20:55,456 --> 00:21:00,376 Well, feral children are good examples of why we want to pay attention to culture. 209 00:21:00,376 --> 00:21:06,576 Because, you know, if you lock a kid up in a closet and come back in 18 years, 210 00:21:07,136 --> 00:21:09,156 you're going to basically have an animal. 211 00:21:09,276 --> 00:21:10,396 And it's happened, by the way. 212 00:21:10,456 --> 00:21:14,236 There have been some children that have had terrible things happen to them like that. 213 00:21:14,236 --> 00:21:23,236 And they were totally unsociable after, or inability to socialize them after those impacts. 214 00:21:24,196 --> 00:21:27,596 And so culture does play an important role. 215 00:21:29,216 --> 00:21:34,236 I was going to get back to your, I guess it was your comment about change. 216 00:21:34,236 --> 00:21:43,536 change. When we did some terrible things, I think, back in the 60s and 70s, we tried to change 217 00:21:43,536 --> 00:21:49,476 gay men to straight, you know, either through reinforcement learning or those kinds of things. 218 00:21:50,036 --> 00:21:56,816 And it didn't work. In fact, it turned out to be a bad experiment, if you can look at them as 219 00:21:56,816 --> 00:22:05,356 experiments. So it just goes to show you, I think, how strong the biology aspect of all of this is 220 00:22:05,356 --> 00:22:13,416 rather than the cultural. And I know I haven't gotten to your question in an answer, but I'm not 221 00:22:13,416 --> 00:22:21,516 sure how to answer it because what I focused on in my paper with the feminists wasn't anything to 222 00:22:21,516 --> 00:22:29,676 do with what may be an art, a profession like, you know, art. I was sticking mainly to things 223 00:22:29,676 --> 00:22:36,436 that could be documented with data. And certainly there's been a lot of research on 224 00:22:36,436 --> 00:22:43,996 this. And people write this off as nurture versus nature, but I don't even think that 225 00:22:43,996 --> 00:22:50,516 hits it on the head. Social constructionism, the way I see it anyway, and you can disagree with me 226 00:22:50,516 --> 00:23:02,236 if you want. I see it as feminism trying to change our society so that men and women will behave 227 00:23:02,236 --> 00:23:08,456 similarly. And from my perspective, I don't think that's as easy as they think it is. 228 00:23:08,896 --> 00:23:13,216 And yet these experiments and trying to get men and women to behave the same 229 00:23:13,216 --> 00:23:19,176 or to do the same jobs even is complex, 230 00:23:19,176 --> 00:23:26,596 and it's not easy to change our society in the way that they think it should be changed. 231 00:23:26,736 --> 00:23:29,276 And I think a lot of, particularly young men, 232 00:23:29,756 --> 00:23:34,316 have been hurt by some of the changes that have been going on in our society 233 00:23:34,316 --> 00:23:37,676 due to woke and various other things. 234 00:23:37,676 --> 00:23:56,596 Yeah, I think there's, without question, a lot of, again, ingrained tendencies in male or female individuals, risk-taking being a huge one, right? 235 00:23:56,656 --> 00:23:59,556 You just don't see female line workers. 236 00:23:59,556 --> 00:24:20,796 Yes. Women are very risk averse, not just in physical construction things, but also in jobs that require 80 hour weeks. Women steer away from those like mad. So if you're wondering why we don't get a lot of women competing in STEM or computer science or those, they don't want the hassle. 237 00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:27,556 they want the flexibility to be able to have off time and they don't understand why men don't you 238 00:24:27,556 --> 00:24:36,256 know so and being a man i understand why because you know i think um i i think a lot of my self-worth 239 00:24:36,256 --> 00:24:43,096 is wrapped up in how i do my job i can't put it any other way although i'm not sure i have the 240 00:24:43,096 --> 00:24:51,716 answer to that yeah i always describe it as a desire to win is just i i don't know why but 241 00:24:51,716 --> 00:24:59,136 it's competitive it is and it can be the most inane thing yeah and i just i have to win like i i have 242 00:24:59,136 --> 00:25:06,976 to make this this has to work it's going to this will happen yes yeah and and then success becomes 243 00:25:06,976 --> 00:25:20,496 a very important part of your life. And so I think that we're trying to make men more like women 244 00:25:20,496 --> 00:25:32,296 to the loss of a lot of men and being hurt by this, I think, to some extent. 245 00:25:32,296 --> 00:25:35,236 Do you have any idea what the rationale is for that? 246 00:25:35,236 --> 00:25:39,836 I understand the idea, you know, the ideas that are espoused. 247 00:25:40,416 --> 00:26:00,796 I don't necessarily agree with them because I think that there is data to show that a number of these things are, you know, something you could easily call out, but you can't put numbers to or drive real data and real, you know, Socratic method against, right? 248 00:26:00,796 --> 00:26:02,576 things like you know 249 00:26:02,576 --> 00:26:04,996 the you know toxic masculinity 250 00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:06,896 the you know patriarchy 251 00:26:06,896 --> 00:26:08,736 as you know the 252 00:26:08,736 --> 00:26:10,596 oppressor right 253 00:26:10,596 --> 00:26:12,976 and I think you know 254 00:26:12,976 --> 00:26:15,796 yeah 255 00:26:15,796 --> 00:26:19,016 it's an interesting one 256 00:26:19,016 --> 00:26:21,056 to me right this is a very 257 00:26:21,056 --> 00:26:22,676 very interesting topic and 258 00:26:22,676 --> 00:26:23,396 part of 259 00:26:23,396 --> 00:26:26,896 you know part of the hesitation here is 260 00:26:26,896 --> 00:26:28,636 is you know 261 00:26:28,636 --> 00:26:30,316 uh 262 00:26:30,796 --> 00:27:00,776 Thank you. 263 00:27:00,796 --> 00:27:30,776 Thank you. 264 00:27:30,796 --> 00:28:00,776 Thank you. 265 00:28:00,796 --> 00:28:30,776 Thank you. 266 00:28:30,796 --> 00:29:00,776 Thank you. 267 00:29:00,796 --> 00:29:23,976 ...for males do. 268 00:29:24,316 --> 00:29:30,396 And so this male parental investment is basically a kind of a contract. 269 00:29:30,396 --> 00:29:33,936 is you help me raise the kid and I'll give you access sexually. 270 00:29:34,216 --> 00:29:38,356 And that's kind of agreed on even though we don't realize it maybe. 271 00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:45,356 And in today's society, of course, we lose a lot of that because we have the pill. 272 00:29:45,516 --> 00:29:48,036 So women can be much more free. 273 00:29:48,136 --> 00:29:56,496 But I think anybody that's dated realizes that women are a lot less willing to have indiscriminate sex than men are. 274 00:29:56,496 --> 00:30:18,516 A funny research done on that. A woman took her class. She was a research professor and she had her class of graduate students go out and ask people in the libraries on campus, both men and women. Women would ask men and men would ask women if they would go home and have sex with them that night. 275 00:30:18,516 --> 00:30:25,296 And I think, yeah, 100% of the women, not surprisingly, said no. 276 00:30:25,856 --> 00:30:28,796 And 75% of the men said yes. 277 00:30:28,896 --> 00:30:34,476 The other 25% gave reasons why they couldn't, feeling guilty almost that they couldn't, 278 00:30:34,516 --> 00:30:38,176 like I'm married or whatever excuse they gave. 279 00:30:38,376 --> 00:30:44,616 I think that kind of sums it up pretty well, that men are much more willing to have indiscriminate sex. 280 00:30:44,616 --> 00:30:54,136 And there's a good reason for it, because women might end up pregnant and having to raise a child in a hunter-gatherer society. 281 00:30:54,356 --> 00:31:01,356 That's a pretty devastating situation if you're faced with raising a child alone on the savannah. 282 00:31:01,476 --> 00:31:03,256 Now, I know it's not completely alone. 283 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:09,396 There's families there and all that, but it's still, it's a burden on the family if you end up in that situation. 284 00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:13,756 And yet, how do we carry this over into modern day society? 285 00:31:13,756 --> 00:31:18,536 Well, we carry this over in seeing it happen. 286 00:31:18,676 --> 00:31:29,556 You know, even though women are able to have, you know, indiscriminate sex if they want, for the most part, they choose, you know, not to most of the time. 287 00:31:29,996 --> 00:31:38,556 Now, I know there are exceptions to that rule, but in general, they are more reluctant than men. 288 00:31:38,556 --> 00:31:48,556 So another thing, women started choosing men also that could protect the family, and they started choosing men that could bring home the resources. 289 00:31:49,016 --> 00:31:56,816 So remember, out on a savanna where you're hunting big game, you know, it's quite dangerous. 290 00:31:57,436 --> 00:32:05,076 Big game is hard to bring down, and it takes a lot of work and takes a lot of coordination, usually among men, because women were raising children. 291 00:32:05,916 --> 00:32:15,876 So although women could do gathering of seeds and things like that, it was mainly the men that went out and did big game hunting. 292 00:32:16,536 --> 00:32:17,536 And it's dangerous. 293 00:32:17,876 --> 00:32:20,136 And so you need brave men to go out there and do that. 294 00:32:20,196 --> 00:32:22,196 You also need brave men to protect the family. 295 00:32:22,336 --> 00:32:23,216 Think about tribes. 296 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:27,816 Almost all tribes faced adversaries from other tribes. 297 00:32:27,896 --> 00:32:32,796 And so if a tribe won, it was bad news for the guys. 298 00:32:32,796 --> 00:32:38,316 All of them got killed, and it was bad news for the women because they basically took them home with them, and they became their wives. 299 00:32:38,976 --> 00:32:46,656 So as brutal as that may sound, that was the way nature was for millions of years of our evolution. 300 00:32:47,536 --> 00:32:54,316 And so we see some of that left over today in our society. 301 00:32:54,876 --> 00:33:02,176 And I know for me, when I started reading about evolutionary psychology in the 90s, they answered a lot of questions for me. 302 00:33:02,176 --> 00:33:09,476 It's like, well, you know, why am I attracted to beautiful women rather than, you know, what we would consider homely women? 303 00:33:09,536 --> 00:33:11,016 I thought that's nearly not fair. 304 00:33:11,136 --> 00:33:12,436 You know, I shouldn't be that way. 305 00:33:12,436 --> 00:33:17,096 Well, I should be that way because beauty is associated with health. 306 00:33:18,036 --> 00:33:28,256 And so men are really looking for healthy women when we try to find attractive women and also youth. 307 00:33:28,256 --> 00:33:38,376 Men want young women because there's more chance of having children over a lifetime with women that are young. 308 00:33:38,636 --> 00:33:50,376 So I know my work in Panama on volcanoes down there, the tribes I ran into, I was seeing 12-year-old girls in the process of getting married. 309 00:33:50,756 --> 00:33:54,276 And that's something you wouldn't see in our society today. 310 00:33:54,276 --> 00:34:00,056 so you know they're reaching puberty and they're like okay time to get married and 311 00:34:00,056 --> 00:34:09,676 and so yes 12 years old you can have a lot of children from 12 to 40 or whenever you know you 312 00:34:09,676 --> 00:34:15,856 you hit the point where you can't have children anymore if you're a woman so so that's good for 313 00:34:15,856 --> 00:34:22,476 men and women to to you know produce offspring more offspring today of course it's all bets are 314 00:34:22,476 --> 00:34:26,216 off, you know, men and women don't choose to have as many babies as they can. 315 00:34:26,996 --> 00:34:32,416 But up until recently, that was true pretty much all over the world, except perhaps a 316 00:34:32,416 --> 00:34:37,996 Western world, where people had a lot of children, even in the Western world. 317 00:34:37,996 --> 00:34:40,196 Yeah, I was going to say, even men have a lot of children. 318 00:34:40,436 --> 00:34:45,936 Up until the, you know, early 1900s, that was kind of how we operated. 319 00:34:46,556 --> 00:34:49,776 You look at, like, you know, start looking at your own family tree. 320 00:34:50,136 --> 00:34:50,436 Victorian England. 321 00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:52,396 Yeah, look at your own family tree. 322 00:34:52,476 --> 00:35:02,636 And it wasn't more than like, you know, great grandfather or grandfather at this point that had, you know, maybe, you know, nine, 10, 11 children. 323 00:35:02,956 --> 00:35:03,176 Right. 324 00:35:03,256 --> 00:35:06,556 And nowadays it's one, maybe two, if any. 325 00:35:07,596 --> 00:35:07,856 Yeah. 326 00:35:07,856 --> 00:35:14,736 I had a lot of great, great grandparents that had 12 kids, you know, not a lot, but I had a number of them. 327 00:35:14,736 --> 00:35:19,276 My grandmother was one of 13, I think. 328 00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:22,156 Just a thought of raising 13 kids. 329 00:35:22,156 --> 00:35:29,076 In a one-room house in a coal mining town. 330 00:35:29,076 --> 00:35:29,936 What were they thinking? 331 00:35:32,716 --> 00:35:34,836 I've heard comments like people asking, 332 00:35:35,076 --> 00:35:36,376 what did people do back then? 333 00:35:36,396 --> 00:35:37,816 They must have been bored before the internet, 334 00:35:37,976 --> 00:35:39,756 but I'm pretty sure I knew what they were doing. 335 00:35:40,116 --> 00:35:41,276 Well, they didn't have television. 336 00:35:41,476 --> 00:35:43,056 There wasn't much to do except read. 337 00:35:44,036 --> 00:35:46,476 And then you could do that at night if you didn't have a lamp. 338 00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:53,076 So the thing that I was getting back to was this choice by women. 339 00:35:54,176 --> 00:35:55,876 So think about that. 340 00:35:55,936 --> 00:35:58,236 They're choosing high testosterone men, basically. 341 00:35:58,456 --> 00:36:10,552 We find in these cultural studies where people have gone out and asked 60 There been huge studies like this where they asked 60 people across all cultures they can get their hands on 342 00:36:10,992 --> 00:36:16,632 And one of the things they find is that women across all cultures, that is, 343 00:36:17,032 --> 00:36:21,992 it suggests biology and not social construction, across all cultures, 344 00:36:22,532 --> 00:36:29,472 women are looking for men that have a high ability to bring home resources. 345 00:36:30,212 --> 00:36:34,132 And on the other hand, men are looking for women that are attractive. 346 00:36:34,132 --> 00:36:44,732 So right away, you've got this huge dichotomy in the way men and women choose their long-term spouses or boyfriends, if you want to look at it, or girlfriends, if you want to look at it that way. 347 00:36:45,452 --> 00:36:48,332 And this choice becomes very important. 348 00:36:49,052 --> 00:36:57,512 Women are choosing men that are protectors, are people that can go out and earn the bacon. 349 00:36:57,512 --> 00:37:01,852 and also can defend them. 350 00:37:02,492 --> 00:37:07,772 So they're looking towards somewhat masculine men, 351 00:37:07,852 --> 00:37:13,412 at least not feminized men in general for those kinds of things. 352 00:37:13,412 --> 00:37:20,672 And so you can see where extrapolating this to modern-day civilization, 353 00:37:20,932 --> 00:37:23,932 where men might be in charge of society. 354 00:37:23,932 --> 00:37:34,612 Women in hunter-gatherer society gave up leadership roles to men because they really didn't have time to be in leadership. 355 00:37:34,752 --> 00:37:35,812 They didn't want leadership. 356 00:37:35,992 --> 00:37:37,212 They wanted to raise children. 357 00:37:37,372 --> 00:37:38,112 They were maternal. 358 00:37:38,272 --> 00:37:42,972 They had high contents of estrogen in their bloods. 359 00:37:43,392 --> 00:37:43,932 Men had testosterone. 360 00:37:44,772 --> 00:37:50,372 They were, in general, making decisions for the tribes and leadership roles. 361 00:37:50,372 --> 00:38:00,172 So, yes, I think we did have what we would consider discriminatory behavior towards women in the 1800s and even in the 1900s. 362 00:38:00,472 --> 00:38:05,152 But that's to be expected, and even a patriarchy. 363 00:38:05,252 --> 00:38:08,832 But I would call that an evolutionary patriarchy, and I did it in this paper. 364 00:38:09,352 --> 00:38:16,732 You can see where men evolved into something we would call a patriarchy because women were choosing them to be that way. 365 00:38:16,732 --> 00:38:22,552 So is it the fault of men that we have this so-called patriarchy? No, not if we're not 366 00:38:22,552 --> 00:38:29,992 discriminating against women, and we're not. So I think we have to kind of now give way to women. 367 00:38:30,092 --> 00:38:34,492 That's very good because we want everyone to have equal opportunities in our society. 368 00:38:34,992 --> 00:38:43,992 But do we really need to punish men to get women in equal abundances in every group? Well, we find 369 00:38:43,992 --> 00:38:49,672 out from economists and a lot of women economists that women don't want to go into fields that have 370 00:38:49,672 --> 00:38:58,052 this high competitive 80-hour work week or in fields like STEM or yeah some women do and those 371 00:38:58,052 --> 00:39:04,112 women we should open our arms to them coming into fields but do we need to spend three million 372 00:39:04,112 --> 00:39:09,512 dollars funding National Science Foundation to figure out how we can get more women into 373 00:39:09,512 --> 00:39:15,492 stem how about just letting them do what they want to do and if they choose stem more power to 374 00:39:15,492 --> 00:39:19,672 them if they don't well let's not discriminate against men so we can get women into those and 375 00:39:19,672 --> 00:39:26,492 i think that's where we start seeing where men are being hurt by some of these dei initiatives so 376 00:39:26,492 --> 00:39:32,812 that's controversial i know and maybe you get me in trouble but i gotta i don't you know i don't 377 00:39:32,812 --> 00:39:39,072 see how right i mean there's data to back that up right it's it's if you want to refute data 378 00:39:39,072 --> 00:39:42,112 I never stopped the feminists in my department or in my university. 379 00:39:42,112 --> 00:39:46,852 If you want to refute it, go gather data and put together a paper and show how it's wrong. 380 00:39:47,472 --> 00:39:51,732 And, hey, I support anyone in their efforts to do something like that. 381 00:39:51,812 --> 00:39:52,552 Go for it, right? 382 00:39:52,572 --> 00:39:52,992 I do too. 383 00:39:52,992 --> 00:39:55,552 That's what the Socratic method is about, right? 384 00:39:56,192 --> 00:39:58,292 That's what we should all be looking to do. 385 00:39:58,292 --> 00:40:03,512 And I do think it's interesting, though, because, you know, STEM keeps coming up, and it is true, right? 386 00:40:03,512 --> 00:40:15,292 And then you look at fields where, you know, you can, I mean, arguably the medical field is full of, you know, basic, you know, the STEM principles and properties. 387 00:40:15,772 --> 00:40:27,472 However, at least last I looked, I think it's gotten to be a majority female dominated field. 388 00:40:28,572 --> 00:40:29,572 Medical has to. 389 00:40:29,572 --> 00:40:39,952 And I think one of the interesting things there, and it plays back to evolutionary psychology, is that that is a role with a high degree of care that goes into it. 390 00:40:40,032 --> 00:40:44,352 It's not uncaring, cold, scientific, hard fact. 391 00:40:44,352 --> 00:40:44,772 No, it's not. 392 00:40:44,772 --> 00:40:51,892 It is a bit of that and a bit of caring and, you know, there's more to it. 393 00:40:51,892 --> 00:41:04,452 And I think that right there is the thing that really, at least in my eyes, really kind of makes that, you know, those fields, the STEM fields, less attractive to women. 394 00:41:04,772 --> 00:41:07,272 It's cold, it's calculating, and it's uncaring. 395 00:41:07,632 --> 00:41:10,512 Data doesn't care if you like the numbers or not. 396 00:41:10,932 --> 00:41:14,552 Data doesn't care if the numbers agree with you or not. 397 00:41:14,772 --> 00:41:16,532 It's just data. 398 00:41:18,072 --> 00:41:38,572 But this is where I take issue with feminists because they have this cancel culture where, if you don't agree, I don't know if you're familiar with Helen Andrews or not, but she's written this wonderful paper called The Great Feminization. 399 00:41:38,572 --> 00:41:40,752 It just came out late last year. 400 00:41:41,492 --> 00:41:50,592 And she is claiming that woke has been generated by women because they have now become dominant in these fields. 401 00:41:51,292 --> 00:41:54,732 You know, they now, there are more lawyers that are women. 402 00:41:54,852 --> 00:41:56,112 There are more judges that are women. 403 00:41:56,232 --> 00:41:57,912 There are more educators that are women. 404 00:41:58,712 --> 00:42:00,492 You know, more professors, for example. 405 00:42:00,832 --> 00:42:02,432 More women get PhDs. 406 00:42:02,512 --> 00:42:03,852 More women get master's degrees. 407 00:42:04,032 --> 00:42:05,532 More women get undergraduate degrees. 408 00:42:05,532 --> 00:42:18,412 So we might be seeing the birth of wokeism as something that has been generated because women are very hesitant to have free speech. 409 00:42:18,532 --> 00:42:32,612 They don't like free speech as much as men do, and they tend to want to stifle any disagreement because they want to have no conflicts in the society. 410 00:42:32,612 --> 00:42:34,432 They want everything to run smoothly. 411 00:42:34,432 --> 00:42:38,432 This may be one of the reasons why they're trying to get men to behave more like women. 412 00:42:39,432 --> 00:42:42,532 And that's where the great feminization comes from. 413 00:42:43,832 --> 00:42:47,192 And, well, I could go into some other things that she goes into. 414 00:42:47,312 --> 00:42:51,092 But I find that to be very, very telling and interesting. 415 00:42:51,572 --> 00:42:52,912 It definitely is interesting. 416 00:42:54,372 --> 00:42:55,152 And DEI. 417 00:42:55,292 --> 00:42:59,432 DEI would be women are much more caring about other people. 418 00:42:59,732 --> 00:43:01,852 And you can see how this plays in DEI. 419 00:43:01,852 --> 00:43:04,132 They want to make sure that everyone's treated fairly. 420 00:43:04,432 --> 00:43:15,352 It's a good idea, but when you start discriminating against the more meritorious, then you run into some bad things for society. 421 00:43:15,732 --> 00:43:25,292 I can guarantee you that the Chinese are not trying to get everybody in high diversity in their society. 422 00:43:25,432 --> 00:43:29,932 They're interested in getting the best doing it, and ultimately, that's who we're competing against. 423 00:43:29,932 --> 00:43:35,692 and I find that feminists misunderstand how competitive the world is. 424 00:43:35,812 --> 00:43:40,052 I mean, if you come from evolution, you know, it's almost basically 425 00:43:40,052 --> 00:43:45,932 you understand how competitive it is all the time for both men and women. 426 00:43:46,552 --> 00:43:52,552 I recall hearing someone, and I can't for the life of me remember where I heard this, 427 00:43:52,552 --> 00:44:17,612 But I think it stuck with me, not because necessarily I agree or disagree with this, right? But, you know, the desire to mitigate conflict as a norm, right? And that right there, I could see some merit to that, right? 428 00:44:17,612 --> 00:44:29,112 I mean, we've been around, we live in, you know, the supposed enlightened society that we live in, yet we still have a problem where we can't seem to stop killing people. 429 00:44:29,932 --> 00:44:37,612 You know, okay, so maybe there's some room for, you know, a toning down of that in certain areas. 430 00:44:37,612 --> 00:44:45,232 But at the same time, it is something I see as being innate in, you know, human nature in general. 431 00:44:47,612 --> 00:44:51,612 So I guess it's, yeah, I don't, you know, I don't know. 432 00:44:52,992 --> 00:45:02,532 For me, it becomes a conundrum where you can have a good idea, but the getting there part is destructive in its nature. 433 00:45:05,372 --> 00:45:09,572 Well, certainly, how can I disagree with that? 434 00:45:09,572 --> 00:45:16,832 I mean, anything, you know, that helps conflict, helps to avoid conflict is good. 435 00:45:17,612 --> 00:45:22,192 Although I think men tend to want conflict at some extent. 436 00:45:22,192 --> 00:45:26,272 Yeah, and I was going to say, I wouldn't say conflict in general. 437 00:45:26,432 --> 00:45:29,932 I would say conflict when it escalates to violence, right? 438 00:45:30,052 --> 00:45:30,452 Oh, yeah. 439 00:45:30,572 --> 00:45:31,472 I think it's necessary. 440 00:45:31,632 --> 00:45:36,432 Conflict in the world of business is necessary. 441 00:45:36,632 --> 00:45:41,032 Without it, we get terrible products that never get better. 442 00:45:41,032 --> 00:45:50,052 you know it's necessary in medical and science and everywhere else because you have to you know 443 00:45:50,052 --> 00:45:55,852 continuously test theories you have to continuously test is this actually accurate did i just find 444 00:45:55,852 --> 00:46:02,792 something that makes this no longer true or relevant um you know uh you know even einstein's 445 00:46:02,792 --> 00:46:09,712 theory of of relativity relativity is still under you know under pressure and there are areas where 446 00:46:09,712 --> 00:46:15,412 it's cracked right and and that's not a bad thing and that is conflict not to my knowledge but i'll 447 00:46:15,412 --> 00:46:22,912 go ahead and defer to you it was on it was on uh i think it was the black holes where some of his 448 00:46:22,912 --> 00:46:28,692 theory has cracked on on some of those and i can't repeat it verbatim but if you look it up there 449 00:46:28,692 --> 00:46:36,332 there are some some big question marks there yeah well not to get off the subject but yeah i think 450 00:46:36,332 --> 00:46:39,692 science is always going to challenge 451 00:46:39,692 --> 00:46:40,472 Einstein 452 00:46:40,472 --> 00:46:43,892 or any ideas that are out there. 453 00:46:44,132 --> 00:46:44,632 And it should. 454 00:46:44,912 --> 00:46:47,772 That is conflict, right? And that's not a 455 00:46:47,772 --> 00:46:49,872 bad thing. Conflict can 456 00:46:49,872 --> 00:46:51,912 be great and the outcome of conflict 457 00:46:51,912 --> 00:46:52,672 can be great. 458 00:46:53,492 --> 00:46:54,472 So, you know, 459 00:46:54,632 --> 00:46:57,392 it's a tough one because 460 00:46:57,392 --> 00:46:59,912 on the flip side, yeah, sure, I'd love to 461 00:46:59,912 --> 00:47:01,812 see less conflict. I'd like to see us not 462 00:47:01,812 --> 00:47:03,892 have to make bombs anymore to drop on 463 00:47:03,892 --> 00:47:05,152 people. I think that'd be cool. 464 00:47:05,152 --> 00:47:13,772 you know well there are there's also game theory which comes into all of this and and um ultimately 465 00:47:13,772 --> 00:47:21,412 in in game theory you've got to consider what your opponents are doing so for example i don't 466 00:47:21,412 --> 00:47:26,592 think anybody wants to to have nuclear weapons running around but as long as your enemy has them 467 00:47:26,592 --> 00:47:33,672 you need them and we may we may have experienced the immense amount of peace that we've had 468 00:47:33,672 --> 00:47:40,952 since World War II on the fact that the atomic bomb was developed 469 00:47:40,952 --> 00:47:45,172 because it's kept people perhaps from having world wars. 470 00:47:45,332 --> 00:47:45,992 Knock on wood. 471 00:47:46,152 --> 00:47:48,252 I hope we don't have any more world wars. 472 00:47:48,252 --> 00:47:52,612 But throughout my life anyway, I haven't seen any world wars. 473 00:47:52,892 --> 00:48:01,652 And looking back on the ones prior to my birth, it's a godsend that we haven't had them. 474 00:48:02,512 --> 00:48:03,432 Yeah, without question. 475 00:48:03,672 --> 00:48:25,192 But game theory becomes very important in the way you look at this too. So maybe we need some people that are willing to be violent, and I'm not making light of being violent, but are willing to be violent to protect us from those on the other side that are willing to be violent. And I think it's a kind of a tit for tat. 476 00:48:25,192 --> 00:48:33,372 It's like that adage, right? Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. 477 00:48:35,052 --> 00:48:37,972 Oh, yeah. I think that's a pretty good saying. 478 00:48:39,552 --> 00:48:39,772 Yeah. 479 00:48:40,692 --> 00:48:48,092 But I was getting to, what was I getting to? This change. 480 00:48:48,092 --> 00:49:11,812 I would argue, based on some of the things I've just told you, that because feminism is geared towards social constructionism, fat studies where, you know, they're saying that you can be healthy and fat and overweight, obese, for example, at the same time is doing a disservice. 481 00:49:11,812 --> 00:49:17,792 We need people searching for the truth on university campuses. 482 00:49:18,612 --> 00:49:30,032 And those that want to have ideologies or promote political ideas, those should probably be in think tanks, not on university campuses. 483 00:49:30,032 --> 00:49:49,012 So I'm arguing that feminist studies be removed from campuses where they can function as whatever they function as, political entities, where they don't have to worry necessarily about getting the evidence and data to back up their ideas. 484 00:49:49,252 --> 00:49:59,952 Whereas in the university campus, when you're talking to young students with young minds, I think you should be supporting your data and your information. 485 00:50:00,032 --> 00:50:06,612 I know that's controversial, but it's certainly a scientist's view of the world. 486 00:50:08,132 --> 00:50:20,512 Yeah, I guess I would struggle to find the controversy in education being based around solid, you know, data facts or fact finding, right? 487 00:50:20,572 --> 00:50:25,952 There may be a lack of data somewhere, and that's a great place to write a thesis, right? 488 00:50:26,612 --> 00:50:26,812 Right. 489 00:50:26,812 --> 00:50:33,772 And that, again, furthers that data-driven approach to education. 490 00:50:34,792 --> 00:50:37,092 Well, take fat studies, for example. 491 00:50:39,132 --> 00:50:46,572 I was literally astounded to find that there were people saying health at any size. 492 00:50:47,252 --> 00:50:55,732 And yeah, you can be healthy like a sumo wrestler and be very healthy, but almost obese. 493 00:50:55,732 --> 00:51:05,552 But that's a whole different story than a sedentary person who's overweight and saying, oh, that person can be healthy too. 494 00:51:05,692 --> 00:51:21,372 Or that the patriarchy makes us not to like overweight women and that culture is forcing us only to be attracted to attractive women. 495 00:51:21,572 --> 00:51:24,332 That doesn't make any sense. 496 00:51:24,332 --> 00:51:30,972 and I'll certainly be the first to say that we shouldn't discriminate against people that are overweight or obese. 497 00:51:31,572 --> 00:51:38,732 But telling students that it's okay to be overweight is just not thinking about them. 498 00:51:38,872 --> 00:51:40,412 It's not thinking about their health. 499 00:51:40,412 --> 00:51:46,492 And yet it's just running rampant in the fat studies literature. 500 00:51:47,312 --> 00:51:48,752 The whole idea is so. 501 00:51:49,352 --> 00:51:51,352 That's actually a new one to me. 502 00:51:51,352 --> 00:51:56,952 I didn't know that there was a track for that. 503 00:51:58,392 --> 00:52:03,472 Oh, Fat Studies has been in Feminist Studies for quite some time. 504 00:52:04,772 --> 00:52:05,372 Decade? 505 00:52:07,172 --> 00:52:08,652 Oh, longer than that. 506 00:52:08,732 --> 00:52:12,472 I was criticizing it way back in the 90s. 507 00:52:13,312 --> 00:52:14,912 Hmm. Interesting. 508 00:52:14,912 --> 00:52:37,092 In fact, it's almost gotten to a point where some feminists, I wouldn't say all of them, some overweight feminists are proud of the fact that they're overweight and that it's kind of a, well, we'll stick it to the man here. 509 00:52:37,992 --> 00:52:40,892 That's the mentality that I see on campus sometimes. 510 00:52:41,332 --> 00:52:44,092 Look, if you want to be overweight, that's fine with me. 511 00:52:44,092 --> 00:52:55,552 I just don't – I would hate to see – I hate to see them teaching young women to – and that's mostly who they get in their feminist studies. 512 00:52:56,312 --> 00:52:58,592 They don't allow men in for the most part. 513 00:52:58,712 --> 00:53:00,792 So you get only women hearing this. 514 00:53:01,452 --> 00:53:03,692 And that seems to be a bad situation. 515 00:53:05,072 --> 00:53:11,512 I find irony in the celebrities that say it's okay to be obese and they sing about it and talk about it. 516 00:53:11,512 --> 00:53:15,352 And then they disappear for a couple of months and they come back and they're thin as a pencil. 517 00:53:16,012 --> 00:53:18,112 And you're like, hmm, I thought it was okay. 518 00:53:19,372 --> 00:53:20,832 Well, don't get me wrong. 519 00:53:21,012 --> 00:53:22,292 I want to make this point. 520 00:53:23,332 --> 00:53:28,012 I don't, I'm not, I think there's some bad things that we have in society. 521 00:53:28,012 --> 00:53:39,572 For example, it may be very bad that we tend to have supermodels out there and we're using those models to convey to women that this is the way you should look. 522 00:53:39,572 --> 00:53:41,552 because that leads to things like bulimia. 523 00:53:41,892 --> 00:53:44,752 And we don't want to hurt women like that. 524 00:53:44,832 --> 00:53:50,332 So we've got to be careful, I think, as men to watch out on that. 525 00:53:51,552 --> 00:53:53,312 I just kind of leave it there, I guess. 526 00:53:54,032 --> 00:53:55,672 No, and I think that is important, right? 527 00:53:55,672 --> 00:54:01,092 And it's also interesting to think what we see today as being beautiful. 528 00:54:01,752 --> 00:54:15,128 Again let go back 100 years That wasn the standard of beauty You know people were you know were almost not almost but you know 529 00:54:15,128 --> 00:54:16,888 often times the more 530 00:54:16,888 --> 00:54:19,208 you know portly you were 531 00:54:19,208 --> 00:54:21,348 the more well to do you were 532 00:54:21,348 --> 00:54:21,788 right 533 00:54:21,788 --> 00:54:25,368 and you know I think that 534 00:54:25,368 --> 00:54:27,428 you know extended back 535 00:54:27,428 --> 00:54:29,508 for you know millennia 536 00:54:29,508 --> 00:54:30,108 right 537 00:54:30,108 --> 00:54:32,808 but at the same 538 00:54:32,808 --> 00:54:42,568 And at the same time, I think overall, you know, there's been a big shift. 539 00:54:42,748 --> 00:54:45,848 And I agree with you on the supermodel part immensely. 540 00:54:45,848 --> 00:54:49,348 I spent a period of my life doing 541 00:54:49,348 --> 00:54:51,448 you know 542 00:54:51,448 --> 00:54:57,168 counseling if you will 543 00:54:57,168 --> 00:55:01,068 for people that had various 544 00:55:01,068 --> 00:55:04,708 disorders and eating disorders were one of them 545 00:55:04,708 --> 00:55:08,268 honestly one of the most challenging things that you can 546 00:55:08,268 --> 00:55:11,968 I mean drug addiction holds no 547 00:55:11,968 --> 00:55:14,968 food addiction is really sugar addiction 548 00:55:14,968 --> 00:55:20,268 Well, food addiction in general, drug addiction holds zero candles to it, right? 549 00:55:20,348 --> 00:55:32,368 At the end of the day, you're literally, it would be like going to a heroin addict and say, okay, you have to take three of these a day, but you can't do more than this little teeny amount and only at these three times a day. 550 00:55:32,448 --> 00:55:33,028 You know what I mean? 551 00:55:33,548 --> 00:55:35,808 So, yeah, extremely challenging. 552 00:55:35,808 --> 00:55:42,028 And like you said, that, you know, body dysmorphia that comes about in a soft pressure way, right? 553 00:55:42,028 --> 00:55:48,548 It's not even that anyone's outwardly saying that this is what you should strive to look like. 554 00:55:48,728 --> 00:55:56,148 It's that it's pervasive and known as the ultimate signal of beauty, right? 555 00:55:58,808 --> 00:56:02,788 Yes, and to go back to what you're saying, 556 00:56:02,788 --> 00:56:15,968 There have been all kinds of studies that have shown that men differ slightly within one culture. 557 00:56:16,148 --> 00:56:20,108 They will choose a whole set of women beauty, and they will rank them. 558 00:56:20,288 --> 00:56:26,408 And then men outside that culture will rank the same women, and they might rank them a little differently. 559 00:56:26,408 --> 00:56:33,008 but the ones that they see beautiful are the ones that people outside the culture see beautiful 560 00:56:33,008 --> 00:56:40,928 and vice versa. So people tend to think women in their own culture are the most beautiful, 561 00:56:41,488 --> 00:56:49,028 but outside of their culture, they would say, okay, we agree on who's beautiful. And it also 562 00:56:49,028 --> 00:56:55,928 turns out that weight plays a role. There are some cultures, no doubt, like you mentioned, 563 00:56:55,928 --> 00:57:03,628 where overweight people are a sign of having great wealth. 564 00:57:03,628 --> 00:57:09,968 And these come in cultures where there is shortages of food. 565 00:57:10,588 --> 00:57:14,848 And so you can see why there would be a real emphasis on beauty 566 00:57:14,848 --> 00:57:19,988 in a culture where there are problems getting food. 567 00:57:21,008 --> 00:57:24,728 But other than that, I think we have pretty much the same standards 568 00:57:24,728 --> 00:57:29,588 across cultures as to what is beautiful, even though we may think women in our own culture. 569 00:57:29,588 --> 00:57:37,828 And this goes for women too. Women also like attractive men. Women are much more likely, 570 00:57:37,968 --> 00:57:43,388 for example, to cheat with attractive men, but marry someone that isn't so attractive 571 00:57:43,388 --> 00:57:52,148 because they're basing their long-term relationship on how much resource he can bring in as opposed to 572 00:57:52,148 --> 00:57:53,448 his looks. 573 00:57:54,008 --> 00:57:55,348 So kind of interesting, I think. 574 00:57:56,428 --> 00:57:57,048 Yeah, absolutely. 575 00:57:58,248 --> 00:57:58,648 Alex? 576 00:58:00,608 --> 00:58:01,748 No, I don't know. 577 00:58:01,748 --> 00:58:02,468 Yeah, no. 578 00:58:02,828 --> 00:58:03,568 I don't know. 579 00:58:03,648 --> 00:58:08,608 Like you said, there's a lot of complexity to it because you think about what to say. 580 00:58:08,608 --> 00:58:13,948 I don't know if I want to say that because it might offend the wrong person or something. 581 00:58:14,128 --> 00:58:14,428 I don't know. 582 00:58:15,108 --> 00:58:16,608 Yeah, we have to be careful. 583 00:58:16,928 --> 00:58:17,328 I agree. 584 00:58:17,328 --> 00:58:35,848 Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, I think, you know, from my standpoint, it's more about making sure that the message is what I wanted to say than it is the content of it, right? 585 00:58:35,848 --> 00:58:44,108 a lot of people misconstrue what what someone says as being something completely different 586 00:58:44,108 --> 00:58:51,448 or take something out of context and and don't I know yeah right and so that I think is one of the 587 00:58:51,448 --> 00:58:57,968 things for me at least that that you know causes me pause and and to kind of how do I want to word 588 00:58:57,968 --> 00:59:03,408 this and and frame this that it doesn't come across as like aha I gotcha you know what I mean 589 00:59:03,408 --> 00:59:05,568 someone else could say that, right? 590 00:59:06,568 --> 00:59:11,328 Instead, it comes across as a statement that I meant to say 591 00:59:11,328 --> 00:59:15,908 and with the meaning that I had behind it, you know, 592 00:59:16,268 --> 00:59:23,668 which is sad because we didn't used to have to self-censor as much, you know? 593 00:59:23,908 --> 00:59:29,768 And I think the free exchange of ideas needs a revival, honestly. 594 00:59:30,348 --> 00:59:31,148 It sure does. 595 00:59:31,148 --> 00:59:34,768 I agree 100% on that 596 00:59:34,768 --> 00:59:39,728 So I was just kind of thinking about the relationship my wife and I have 597 00:59:39,728 --> 00:59:43,288 and you know it's not like I'm above her or she's above me or whatever 598 00:59:43,288 --> 00:59:47,948 I kind of think of it like a car and like someone's the engine 599 00:59:47,948 --> 00:59:50,768 someone's the transmission but we can't do both the same job 600 00:59:50,768 --> 00:59:54,428 but we both are necessary to make the car go somewhere 601 00:59:54,428 --> 00:59:55,988 that's kind of how I think about it 602 00:59:55,988 --> 01:00:00,108 Well I think my wife and I we've been married for 40 years 603 01:00:00,108 --> 01:00:09,388 And I think one of the way we share ideas is that we both said, okay, it's pretty much everything for the kids. 604 01:00:09,548 --> 01:00:11,048 You know, yeah, we can have our own lives. 605 01:00:11,168 --> 01:00:15,368 But we were very focused on what would be best for our kids. 606 01:00:15,448 --> 01:00:21,808 So she stayed home when she first had kids for, I don't know, I want to say six or seven years. 607 01:00:22,108 --> 01:00:25,308 And then went back to work after that. 608 01:00:25,828 --> 01:00:27,288 But she really wanted to stay home. 609 01:00:27,288 --> 01:00:40,668 And I made sure that I married someone that wanted to stay home because I didn't want children raised, you know, outside of a, what do I want to say, where both parents worked. 610 01:00:41,688 --> 01:00:44,668 So, and my wife really wanted that too. 611 01:00:45,348 --> 01:00:52,188 I'm not saying that's best for everybody, but I think ultimately, though, it's good for the kids. 612 01:00:52,188 --> 01:00:54,608 Well, I think there's a lot of value to that, right? 613 01:00:54,608 --> 01:01:08,948 And, you know, I would say nowadays it's become exponentially more difficult to achieve that level of independence in being able to do that. 614 01:01:08,948 --> 01:01:15,068 You know, we don't at least, you know, not in quite some time. 615 01:01:15,188 --> 01:01:23,768 We haven't lived in a world where, you know, a single family or a single family with children can have a single person working. 616 01:01:23,768 --> 01:01:28,788 and be able to do that and provide in a manner that is, you know. 617 01:01:28,808 --> 01:01:30,608 Well, we went without a lot to do that. 618 01:01:30,728 --> 01:01:33,028 I mean, we did, but it was consciously done. 619 01:01:33,248 --> 01:01:33,908 Sure, sure. 620 01:01:35,088 --> 01:01:37,448 And I mean, even more so today, right? 621 01:01:38,328 --> 01:01:39,088 Yeah, I think so. 622 01:01:39,108 --> 01:01:41,088 I look at the price of things, right? 623 01:01:41,208 --> 01:01:41,628 Oh, yeah. 624 01:01:41,848 --> 01:01:44,988 And especially, and this is going to be dependent on your age 625 01:01:44,988 --> 01:01:48,608 and a number of other factors, but in general, 626 01:01:48,608 --> 01:01:52,368 if you're under 30 and you're out there wanting to start a family, 627 01:01:52,368 --> 01:02:03,368 I think it's going to be a really, really difficult thing to put yourself in a position where you can have a single working parent and one that stays home. 628 01:02:03,468 --> 01:02:16,288 I think financially, it's just almost, you know, it's near impossible unless there was something set up, some form of generational wealth or something that allows you at least some breathing room. 629 01:02:16,288 --> 01:02:22,228 Or you were really, really good with finances and managed to put together a solid nest egg, right? 630 01:02:22,368 --> 01:02:37,128 Yeah, that's one of, I think, the bad outcomes of feminism was that, you know, we sort of forced a situation in our society now where both men and women have to work. 631 01:02:37,828 --> 01:02:40,928 And I think, you know, it kind of hurts the kids. 632 01:02:40,928 --> 01:02:49,208 You have a lot of locky kids now coming home, you know, or having to go when they're younger off to, you know, to. 633 01:02:50,608 --> 01:02:56,628 I wouldn't say be raised by someone else, but certainly they don't get to be around their parents as much as they were. 634 01:02:56,628 --> 01:03:03,868 You're certainly getting input from people that may or may not share the same values and ideas that you do. 635 01:03:04,168 --> 01:03:04,308 Right. 636 01:03:05,428 --> 01:03:05,748 Correct. 637 01:03:05,748 --> 01:03:27,888 And yeah, I would also say, you know, understanding where you're coming from, I would say a large part of this is due almost directly to fiscal policy and some of the things that we have done with our system of economy at this point. 638 01:03:27,888 --> 01:03:42,328 You know, the fact that, you know, we operate on debt and, you know, have essentially devalued our own currency by printing money and increasing the supply has a lot to do with that. 639 01:03:42,448 --> 01:03:46,828 Right. I certainly think that the civil rights movement was a good thing. 640 01:03:46,828 --> 01:04:16,728 I really do. And I think, you know, women being, you know, I think it's, it's, you know, in my lifetime, women couldn't, you know, own a home or, or have a bank account. Let me take that back. They couldn't buy a home because they couldn't get a loan and they couldn't take a, you know, get a bank account or a credit card in my lifetime. Right. And, and I think that's, I mean, it's a wonderful thing that that doesn't exist, but, you know, there's also a big question mark on, on, you know, how much of a role. 641 01:04:16,828 --> 01:04:25,108 that played in in kind of creating some of the economic conditions that caused you know more 642 01:04:25,108 --> 01:04:33,228 more workforce came about almost overnight and you know obviously you know we increased the supply 643 01:04:33,228 --> 01:04:41,428 yep i agree you're talking about the detriment of having both parents working i think it's even 644 01:04:41,428 --> 01:04:46,808 worse uh you know these single parent homes where there's no father around for a lot of them 645 01:04:46,808 --> 01:04:48,908 I don't think it does anybody any favors either. 646 01:04:49,608 --> 01:04:50,968 I would agree with you. 647 01:04:51,948 --> 01:04:56,188 And this, of course, is something that feminists do not like to talk about. 648 01:04:56,388 --> 01:05:00,128 But I think eventually it has to be addressed. 649 01:05:00,388 --> 01:05:08,828 You know, is it in the interest of your kids, best interest of your kids, to not have a parent around? 650 01:05:08,988 --> 01:05:12,028 And if it isn't, is there a way to work around it? 651 01:05:13,248 --> 01:05:14,228 Yeah, I'd agree with that. 652 01:05:14,228 --> 01:05:17,508 I think there's a lot of room for improvement in that. 653 01:05:18,248 --> 01:05:24,068 You're not, you know, obviously not going to get rid of the underlying, you know, reason for that. 654 01:05:25,768 --> 01:05:27,908 But, you know, what happens afterwards? 655 01:05:27,908 --> 01:05:44,448 I think there's a huge amount of room for improvement in the system and part of it being, you know, you know, barring, you know, the extreme circumstances for that being a complete and total. 656 01:05:44,768 --> 01:05:47,828 In this case, I would say an equitable split. 657 01:05:49,168 --> 01:05:49,768 Right. 658 01:05:49,768 --> 01:06:06,128 Not big on equity in general, but in that one, I think there's merit to equity because it makes the most sense for the children and for the consistency of the family unit. 659 01:06:07,668 --> 01:06:07,728 Right. 660 01:06:10,788 --> 01:06:11,668 All right. 661 01:06:12,308 --> 01:06:18,708 Well, I think we're probably at a fairly decent place for starting to wrap things up. 662 01:06:18,708 --> 01:06:21,208 I really appreciate your time. 663 01:06:22,208 --> 01:06:23,528 Thank you for having me. 664 01:06:23,588 --> 01:06:25,228 I think this was a great conversation. 665 01:06:26,008 --> 01:06:26,548 Yeah, it was. 666 01:06:27,708 --> 01:06:40,428 So one question we always ask our guests is, you know, I think it's important for us to be able to recognize individuals or, you know, people that had a significant impact on our lives. 667 01:06:40,428 --> 01:06:47,248 so one person you'd like to give a shout out to for having that positive impact in your life could 668 01:06:47,248 --> 01:06:52,188 be sixth grade science teacher it could be a professor it could be an author it could be 669 01:06:52,188 --> 01:06:59,708 a historical figure it could be anyone well it seems rather easy to me 670 01:06:59,708 --> 01:07:10,208 you know short of being making my father the choice I think I because my father was a great 671 01:07:10,208 --> 01:07:21,568 influence on me, but I would say Darwin. Charles Darwin has basically given us evolutionary 672 01:07:21,568 --> 01:07:29,708 psychology. He was so great. I still have on my calendar when his birthday rolls around, 673 01:07:29,708 --> 01:07:38,948 which was here in February just recently. And just that one man could see so much, 674 01:07:38,948 --> 01:07:48,048 Not only did he come up with natural selection, but he came up with sexual selection, which is what I was talking about earlier, how women choose men. 675 01:07:49,668 --> 01:07:50,988 That's sexual selection. 676 01:07:51,268 --> 01:07:56,228 If we have a red cardinal flying around, Darwin said, that doesn't make much sense. 677 01:07:56,268 --> 01:07:56,948 How does that work? 678 01:07:57,048 --> 01:08:05,248 Because red cardinals seem to be obvious things that animals could eat over not being red. 679 01:08:05,328 --> 01:08:07,208 Well, yes, there's competition there. 680 01:08:07,208 --> 01:08:15,028 the red cardinal wants to be selected by females. That's why they're red, because for whatever 681 01:08:15,028 --> 01:08:21,768 reason, females like red cardinals, but so do cats. So, you know, you're rolling the dice there, 682 01:08:22,128 --> 01:08:27,788 and you get your genes passed on by being red. And by the way, we see that among humans to some 683 01:08:27,788 --> 01:08:34,528 extent. Men are much bigger risk takers than women in general. I know we have a lot of risk 684 01:08:34,528 --> 01:08:41,188 takers out there that are women, but men are generally more bigger risk takers. And it's one 685 01:08:41,188 --> 01:08:49,268 of the reasons why men die so young. Men tend to die much younger than women. And by the way, 686 01:08:49,348 --> 01:08:55,948 men kill men much more than they kill women. And that's all back to this competition thing. So 687 01:08:55,948 --> 01:09:01,928 it all seems to make sense in a big picture kind of way. But yes, Darwin, I would go Darwin. 688 01:09:01,928 --> 01:09:06,868 Awesome. That's an interesting choice. At least it wasn't Maslow. 689 01:09:09,908 --> 01:09:10,428 Sorry. 690 01:09:11,588 --> 01:09:12,108 Sorry. 691 01:09:12,888 --> 01:09:24,408 All right. Well, thank you very much for your time. Do you want to take a little bit of time and tell people what you're working on, what you've got going on, anything pointing them in a direction? 692 01:09:24,408 --> 01:09:31,228 Yeah, I've just gotten involved with the Comet Research Group. 693 01:09:31,348 --> 01:09:34,888 This is a group that thinks that, and I agree with them, 694 01:09:34,888 --> 01:09:41,548 that thinks that at the end of the Younger Dryas, which existed about 12,800 years ago, 695 01:09:42,788 --> 01:09:44,608 something struck. 696 01:09:45,028 --> 01:09:48,708 Comet might have been a meteorite, might have been many probably, 697 01:09:49,268 --> 01:09:53,928 that struck Earth and caused perhaps the end of the megafauna. 698 01:09:54,408 --> 01:10:01,688 You know, the mastodon, the woolly mammoths, the saber-toothed tigers, and maybe even Clovis culture here in North America. 699 01:10:01,968 --> 01:10:06,548 So very interesting, finding a lot of evidence for it. 700 01:10:07,168 --> 01:10:08,488 So yeah, that's what I'm working on. 701 01:10:08,488 --> 01:10:16,488 If I could say so, if you want to see some of the papers I've written, you can check me out at markdefant.com. 702 01:10:17,108 --> 01:10:18,968 It's M-E-R-C-D-E-F-A-N-T. 703 01:10:19,648 --> 01:10:24,228 And if you want to contact me, you can find my email there too, if you'd like. 704 01:10:24,408 --> 01:10:31,868 Wonderful, wonderful. Well, that's an interesting one and one I've been following for a bit of time as well. 705 01:10:32,308 --> 01:10:33,168 Oh, you know about it? 706 01:10:33,168 --> 01:10:53,448 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I can't remember the gentleman's name at this point. I can see his face, but I was introduced to the theory of this a while back and I was like, eh, and then I started looking at what was being presented and I was like, okay, well, maybe this makes sense, you know? 707 01:10:53,448 --> 01:10:54,828 so it's an interesting 708 01:10:54,828 --> 01:10:57,428 thing so that's pretty cool 709 01:10:57,428 --> 01:10:59,748 alright well thank you again 710 01:10:59,748 --> 01:11:00,728 for joining us 711 01:11:00,728 --> 01:11:02,588 it's good being with you guys thanks a lot 712 01:11:02,588 --> 01:11:05,888 well thank you again 713 01:11:05,888 --> 01:11:07,668 for watching us for another episode of the 714 01:11:07,668 --> 01:11:08,968 Space Tomatoes podcast 715 01:11:08,968 --> 01:11:11,128 you know where to find us we're everywhere 716 01:11:11,128 --> 01:11:13,648 literally everywhere just go find 717 01:11:13,648 --> 01:11:15,848 type in the Space Tomatoes podcast 718 01:11:15,848 --> 01:11:17,528 and you'll find us YouTube 719 01:11:17,528 --> 01:11:19,688 Spotify we're now on 720 01:11:19,688 --> 01:11:21,708 fountain.fm so if you want to go check 721 01:11:21,708 --> 01:11:24,888 us out there and support us through Fountain, you can. 722 01:11:25,428 --> 01:11:29,768 And we also are now on Noster, which is a protocol and censorship 723 01:11:29,768 --> 01:11:33,848 resistant because nobody owns your account 724 01:11:33,848 --> 01:11:36,708 except you. So check that out too. 725 01:11:38,468 --> 01:11:41,708 And remember, wherever 726 01:11:41,708 --> 01:11:45,588 you are, whenever you're watching this, have an 727 01:11:45,588 --> 01:11:49,248 amazing day. See you, everybody. 728 01:11:51,708 --> 01:12:11,388 Thank you.