I guess, yeah, maybe I am just old footy.
No, don't you dare.
Havoc, sir, sir.
Don't you dare feel like you are perpetuating any stereotype
about what I literally just made a point about.
No, no, sir.
You're right.
Your music is the best music.
And these guys aren't even, they don't even play instruments anymore, Havoc.
They don't even play their own instruments anymore.
Thank you.
all right everybody welcome back to another episode of the space tomatoes podcast i'm one
of your hosts havoc i'm lx hello welcome back all that stuff and today we have a special guest with
us spiffy sean styles welcome to the show good to be here super special well how's it going my mom
says I'm special, so I think that counts. Guys, how are you? Thank you for having me.
Yeah, man. It's been an interesting scheduling adventure and everything else, but hey, we got
it all figured out and here we are. Listen, the modern day renaissance man that I am,
you know, I'm a mover and a shaker, an international superstar. The fact that you guys are doing such
a great job that I was able to carve out this time as a priority for me is a testament to the
amazing work that you gentlemen do. I'm kidding. I had to wake up at the crack of five o'clock in
the afternoon and remember that this was on my schedule today. That was awesome. At least you
remembered. That's the best part, right? I mean, barely. I mean, like you said, like we kind of
back and forth where like i'm new to the uh you know the guesting stuff uh where you know trying
to kind of keep all of that together amongst the other various hats that i wear as the modern day
renaissance man um sometimes i get i get lost no not with this hair i don't but i but i would
I mean, technically.
Nice.
So you pro wrestling, a band, cover band?
Is that an accurate description?
Yes.
I mean, so I say it like this.
So a lot of my kind of overarching philosophy for the evolution of my life and kind of the, again, the various kind of hats that I wear.
I've always kind of subscribed to one sort of overarching commandment or my business book, if you want to read it.
It's great.
It's on Amazon.
Not really.
Have I told you about my supplements?
much this hair i wear i mean there's let me tell you everybody has something to sell it's always
just shilling the entire time i'm on your show like a paid advertisement no but like so so i i
learned um so i'm just old enough we were talking a little bit uh kind of before the show about being
uh an elder millennial uh and i i was excited that i uh you know i've got my background and uh we
we talked a little Star Trek, uh, in the prerecord and then, uh,
saw LX's, uh, backdrop, which is literally, I, I'm right away.
Like if you're a man of a, of a certain age,
you know exactly what those things are behind them. And right away,
I was like, Oh my gosh. Like that's, I just started, uh,
I just played through the final fantasy 16 demo, uh, and love it. Uh,
but, uh, I'm an OG guy, like going through seven, like I,
We could do the, you know, like I, listen, this is my first ADHD segue of the entire podcast.
And there will be a few.
This is the Tifa versus like Laura Croft argument as far as like my type of girl, as far as video game chicks that I might leave my wife for.
And I mean, Tifa's, I'm team Tifa.
I mean, just, you have to be.
I mean, good Lord.
I have a type.
What was the question?
I went through the Lara Croft thing for a while.
My wife got me the calendar and all that stuff back in the day.
She was a little bit more pointier back then.
Well, listen, they wore those bras that weren't as flattering back in the 50s and 60s.
If you look at the old catalogs.
i literally just yesterday booted up quake quake the original quake and played through it
and uh they they now uh nvidia has uh released their little rtx uh modeler where you can go in
and actually you know implement some some better that was one of the original like engines wasn't
it like quake was the one like like back in the day yeah yep pre pre unreal yep yeah yeah it was
one of my favorite games man that thing was was just badass back then what was the very first
thing like doom wolfenstein i was gonna say good i can't believe this is nuca maybe castle castle
yeah i never played any of that stuff those are all computer guys yeah that's true it was all
the computer nerds blow off the cartridge and stick it in there and hope it works and
try it a few more times we used to literally i worked for i worked for a dod company at the time
and we used to literally bring in our systems on friday and after work shut down we'd plug in and
have land parties in the office it was hilarious i i again as an elder i remember land parties i
I remember when that was a thing where, and this is back in the day land parties to people listening.
This is not like I've got this really sweet gaming laptop and this is guys lumbering around with like old school like CRT like monitors and a big ass hard drive like tower and setting up and running cables.
It's not, oh, we'll just do it over Wi-Fi.
And no, you had to be in the room.
I'm trying to explain what a land party is to anybody under the age of 112 that might be listening to this like you had it used to have to show up and like plug things in and it was it was a simpler time but it was certainly a simpler time but man I mean you know there was there was something to those things you know.
well it's one of the things that like you talk about like um you know how sort of you know and
people say disconnected now but like people communicate differently than they did obviously
back when we were uh teenagers and stuff which thankfully because uh i'd be in jail still
probably um and most people in their in their 40s that were of the generation that we grew up without
you know cell phones and cameras in our faces and the internet was a new thing uh to where we are now
where you know literally everything you do is broadcast you know not just this but you know
yeah no i always say i'm i'm really really really fortunate that cameras weren't something people
just had on them at all times back in the day i mean having i'm not gonna lie you more than probably
me and LX as far as like people that probably should be in jail for our past transgressions.
And I say that with all respect because I've, you know, I was a rotten kid, not a bad way.
I was just, you know, I was, I was ADHD before ADHD was cool. You know what I mean? I'm just
old enough to have gone to school where like nuns could still hit you and stuff like that.
When you were just a obnoxious kid, uh, now you can't do any of that stuff, but you know,
but that was, that was the eighties, you know, and I'm, and I,
I fancy myself a nineties kid as you, uh,
the original question I think was about music at some point. Uh, but yeah,
one of the, the band thing I did is, uh,
to the overarching, uh, thing is find something you love to do.
That's chapter one of my business book, by the way,
to actually get back to what I guess at some point we talked about, but my,
um, my book is find something you love to do. And then chapter two is,
find a way to get paid for that thing. And that has been pretty much my business philosophy
since I was a recent college graduate. In 2006, I got a great job doing like mortgages and finance,
and I was crushing it out of school. And then those of us remember in 2008,
everything just stopped as far as businesses.
And there was a mortgage bubble
and the financial industry pretty much went away.
And I went to work one day as the young hotshot top sales guy
for this nice company that I worked for.
And the doors were locked through, obviously, at that point,
no fault of my own.
But the takeaway I had back then was I'm never going to work for anybody ever again.
And the reason is because they can take it away from you.
Again, no fault of my own.
Like I, I'm just, I'm, first of all, I'm great at getting myself in trouble or getting myself fired.
I don't need that additional layer of, you know, challenge on top of my stupid mouth.
So, and, and that's where the band came from originally.
this was supposed to be a way to get free drinks and meet girls.
This was never like,
there was no business plan to be like,
I'm going to,
I'm going to go to school forever and get a,
you know,
a good,
be working on my PhD and then decide that that's,
that's enough student loans.
Let's just go ahead and drink Jager bombs and sing Jesse's girl for a living
instead.
But here we are,
you know,
Hey,
why not?
I mean, if you can do it, I mean, that's, but that's, you know, that's part of the, you know, you have to, there's a lot of, of trust you have to have in, in yourself.
And I understand a lot of people like a nine to five or a hem and egger, if you will, as a shout out to my wrestling guru, Bobby, the brain heenan.
Like if you're a nine to five guy, there's nothing wrong with that.
I know people that when they were 12 years old knew that they wanted to be a teacher or a lawyer or whatever like that.
And God bless those people.
Seriously.
I still have no idea what I want to be when I grow up.
And that's okay, too.
And that's a large part of, you know, of my podcast journey and me just trying to explain that to other people.
where, you know, now you don't have that.
We're not in a society anymore
that you get done with school,
you go get a job,
you put your head down
and shut up and work for 25 years
and get your watch and go home.
It's just, that's not where we are anymore.
And that's okay too.
But, you know, but the times,
they are a changing.
Any suggestions for people that,
like maybe looking for something
that they want to do,
but they hate everything.
Not saying that I know anybody like that.
You have done your homework on me.
I'm talking about myself.
Is it really the hate everything thing,
or is it just hating the people that come around because of it?
I don't know.
I mean, I'm good at several things.
I don't enjoy doing any of them.
Yeah, and interacting with people,
because I did take an online quiz once about, you know,
possible career choices and it came back with a big fat zero because like you know i can't interact
with people so customer service is like right off the table that takes a few things right alex i
don't know if you know this but you literally have a podcast where you talk to people every week
i i hope i'm not like there's a funny thing i don't want to drop that bomb on you this early
in the show but i'm pretty sure that you weren't you weren't supposed to tell him he doesn't know
I know when Havoc came to me with this idea it's weird because I told him like I hate podcasts I
don't enjoy listening to them and I don't understand why people listened like why would
somebody want to listen to a couple you know people like us talk about absolutely nothing
I don't get it but hey oh no no trust me I am very much having that I'm having that same internal
monologue right now like why would anybody want to deal with any of us but you know but like they
do and that's the thing it's a little bit different uh lx because uh well here's so for me
personally like i am uh i'm called an ambivert uh so i am i am a very introverted person
in quote unquote real life but i have a very extroverted job um and a lot of that is
you know, not to get too like laying on a therapist couch about it, but like a lot,
a lot of that is like, I'm a people pleaser. So like, even though I don't like most people,
I still seek that approval and validation and Hey, you know, people dig me or Hey,
you did a good job. So the reason I'm such a, uh, a workaholic or the reason I do so many
different things is because I have different opportunities to, for me, also being a little
bit of a cynic now as I get older and realize that most people suck, which is fine. Thanks for
listening, people. But also there's a better than 50-50 chance that you probably suck. But please
like and subscribe. But that's the dichotomy, right? That's sort of the world that we're trying
to like navigate where it's like well most of you i don't want to deal with but also please listen to
my nonsense yeah i mean there's there's definitely a bit of that that goes on i suppose right i i
enjoy it i have fun doing it i my career is is largely uh it's similar to the to yours in nature
in that you know my take like i live on a little farm away from people and you sell you sell your
feet on only fans how'd you know you said it was just like me i just i didn't know how much
you guys did see that's how we met actually no but like i can literally sit here and not leave
the property for months months and and i'm happy doing that but my job puts me in front of people
frequently with this job or no like this i always love when people say and not to cut you off i will
do that the adhd like so people all the time are like well what's your real job like it's one of
the one of my favorite questions i'm like well this is my real job like find a way to do something
that you love and then find a way to get paid for it that's the book guys so every time i have a bad
day at work you know a bad uh a bad show or you know a guy yelling free bird at me for three hours
straight on stage you have to just like deal with and for some reason that guy comes to all of my
shows thank you for your support shut up but like i might feel bad for doing that to somebody
listen i'm glad you show up man thank you again thank you for supporting uh entertainers and
the arts and stuff. Like every time I have like that kind of day or I'm, or I have a bad travel
day, you know, I remind myself that I could be waking up at seven o'clock in the morning and
putting on a shirt and tie and going to sit in a cubicle at a job that I hate, like a lot of people
do. And then it's a little bit better. You know, it's, it just, it's, I like this because I, it
helps me maintain that sort of perspective on like yeah people are terrible sometimes but also
this is pretty nice comparatively to a lot of people that don't like their jobs at all like i
love this mostly i mean i say people are terrible until i actually meet them and then i'm usually
you know like then i have more friends that's a whole other thing you know like i always say i
got enough friends but then they get my life and then I you know have to do all that stuff well I
mean it's one of the hard things uh that I I kind of realized as I've gotten older as well like
like you don't have that built-in network of like college friends or like I'm in a fraternity or
you don't you know like as you get older like you realize like oh I haven't talked to my
best friend in three months or whatever like that because life is happening he's got and he just had
a kid and my puppy's sick and you know whatever real life uh does happen and there's nothing wrong
with that as long as you're making the effort to you know still like look I also like I built like
an amazing studio like where I don't have to leave the middle of nowhere uh where I live and I say
that as somebody who you know had a house in Key West for the past several years where I would
commute to work in Key West and that's far even, you know, by flight. But like, you know,
the alternative is, you know, I sit around and play video games all the time and I haven't figured
out how to get paid to do that yet. However, you know, uh, I had a concept about like,
like dads playing, uh, like video games and being terrible at them. Cause I am pretty terrible at
like uh like i rage quit elden ring like eight times i'm like why am i even why am i doing this
this isn't fun you walk out of the first thing and like this knight just hacks you up like
instantly like over and over again you're like what the like why people do this for fun like
how is this fun like i'm not gonna play call of duty because as soon as you spawn like some guy
shoots you in the face i'm like i just i'm not even alive yet and i'm dead already like why are
like and this is why i there's an aspect to it that gets like that that's for sure spawn camping
is the worst though i mean that's just that's just bad behavior in my opinion bad form right
how i want to talk to their parents more than i want to be mad at them like who taught you who
raised you like this like what kind of person i am so bad at first person shooter games i mean
Horrible. Horrible.
I can't stand them.
Me too.
See, the ones I like are
more kind of like RPG.
Like Fallout, I love.
Borderlands, I mean, technically
they're first-person shooters, but I don't...
They're more like role-playing,
kind of like stuff like that. So you have that
additional component there
where I like them.
I wish...
I miss even games
like Destiny when
before they started ruining that.
Like, just for the, you know, I would get to play online
like with my friends that were bouncers at one of the places my band played.
And we would like have three in the morning, like, you know,
just even when we weren't playing at the venue, like we'd still like,
we made friends, you know.
And we had that you know I don have that anymore Like I don have a squad I need a squad Help me be on my squad guys Find me on the Twitch and all that stuff
Spiffy Sean, pretty much anywhere you Google it
or tell Grok to find me.
I'm apparently very findable, even from weird Nazi apps.
Why would you use Grok, by the way, Havoc?
I let it slide before, and I'm like...
Here's the reason.
And I generally don't like AI in general, which is weird considering my job.
But signed up for Twitter X, whatever, for this.
And wanted to get that verified badge.
And, well, Grok comes along with that.
And so I use Grok because it's there and doesn't have credits.
And I don't have to deal with other stuff.
And, you know, it can be pretty amusing at times.
Wow.
Yeah, actually, very, very amusing.
It seems to me to be more able to flow through things that are controversial in nature without throwing up all over you.
That's one way of putting it.
All right.
I mean, that's Alex.
What do you think is your, I mean, you're laughing along with me.
So I'm like, all right, well, listen, I'm a guy with my voiceover work.
Like part of the, uh, a lot of what I do like with that is, uh, literally, uh, voice
prompt things like where, uh, like I might be the voice of like, uh, Facebook in India
when you do grok on there.
Like, so a lot of like, okay.
And a lot of that, uh, well, you got to do that in a world where.
Well, I do. That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, you're going to do that guy.
Well, of all the weird things, that's one of them.
But I do a really good Sam Elliott.
I do all these...
I've got a good broadcasting voice,
but most of the work I get is not in my actual voice,
if that makes sense, which is a little bit humbling.
But for the Facebook AI, it is.
Basically, they want you to read a bunch of these, like, you know, kind of sentences and stuff like that where they're doing, like, voice training, like, models where, like, people ask you questions and, you know, you have to talk about whatever it is.
And, yeah, and my voice is on 11 Labs and a couple things like that, like, where you can literally hire my voice to, you know, talk about whatever you want to talk about.
So I'm trying to like, you know, at least give a head nod to our eventual robot overlords and say, look, I was one of the good guys.
I was I was one of the guys.
That's my voice.
You're you're killing people in my voice.
I was I was the guy that when you're like, you have to come with me to the camp.
I'm like, I'm I said, I mean, not me.
One of the robot dogs with a machine gun on the back.
It's going to come for you.
Listen, if my dog wasn't sleeping on the couch, he, you know, he should be way more of a killer than he is.
But he's not.
He's also a bigger social media star than I am, which is a little humbling.
But, you know, he's a good boy.
Does he have his own socials?
No.
And like, I went back and forth about this just because, you know, I spent years making fun of people that made like, you know, a cat Instagram and whatever.
You know what I mean?
Like, don't do that.
Like, but then also, you know, now I see the analytics and, you know, he's way more marketable than I am.
So, and he doesn't have thumbs, so he can't help me carry my equipment and stuff like that.
So at least he can make himself useful.
probably a lot of treats probably not that great at editing either right he's not bad at that
weirdly i mean for a for a puppy i say puppy he's almost three but like still looks like a puppy
i got him because we both have like a baby face and we don't look our age and he gets it what kind
of dog is he so he's a rescue uh but we did one of those uh those doggy dna things on him uh so
he's a little more than half
pit terrier, which you can
see in his face. And if you
stalk me on my
social media, you will see a lot
of, and his name
to the bridge is
Commander Data, is my dog's name.
So, and he's
Commander Data for a couple of reasons.
A, I'm a huge nerd. I'm a
90s kid who grew up
with the next generation.
He's got
really, really like bright green eyes. So if you know anything about the actual data, so that tracks
I, and my wife is actually a high school math teacher. So it's got this double meaning for her
as a math teacher where data is sort of important for her as well. And then I got her into Star Trek
and then she loved next generation. Uh, probably, uh, I think as far as the favorite series,
series is series i series is i it's my it's my star trek yeah but yeah well awesome he's also
raised on star trek or they mean you know next generation that was a thing when i was growing up
i was been uh i was also raised on star trek yeah you have to be it was captain kirk
probably no look no no shade on william shatner or anything but
terrible terrible absolutely terrible just a little goofy looking back kirk kirk as far as
the actor kirk like as far as like the i got yes so we need to do the thing well i mean him
as far as like just Shatner in general.
But like, so there's a really decent documentary.
I think it's on Netflix.
It might be on Amazon Prime talking about like the first,
like kind of the initial, like, you know, the run
and the, you know, kind of pushback they got from the studio
and like Roddenberry's original vision for Star Trek
and then how like the studio kind of almost wanted it
to be like more campy you know or they had to do that because they you know gene had a lot of ideas
and if you look back at the original series and and know some of the stories like a lot of the
original series was uh a way for the and and really star trek through 55 years has been a way
to sort of have like this social commentary that wasn't uh you know like on the nose like where you
can say oh no this is happening in a galaxy far far away it has nothing to do with you know how
you know segregated the 60s were and that's definitely not why uh we're showing this like
xenophobia towards these people that look different or act different and you know like
And if you're not a Star Trek fan and you understand like the first interracial kiss on television was Star Trek and and that was sort of by design, but it was they weren't allowed to do that or, you know, because that just wasn't a thing back then.
But a lot of those concepts you can get away with if you go, oh, no, this is fantasy.
This isn't like this has nothing to do with the current political environment or anything that's happening right now.
this is uh you know these guys are in a different dimension so so it's okay to be nice to you know
the black communications officer i will say that i mean kirk would bang green chicks i mean let's
be honest i mean he was yeah with with the coxman he was the one thing that that always saddened me
i'm just gonna throw this one out here if anyone from any star track you know produce production
et cetera is listening hey man look you're missing out on a massive opportunity why has nobody brought
tribbles back they oh i can answer that it's like come on those things were epically funny
cool and problematic
one of the newer things they did i remember now i and again this is you know
it's,
and thank you guys for having this show where,
uh,
it's a safe place for me as a,
just an absolute nerd who also is a pretend rock star for a living to find
like a safe place where I can go,
uh,
actually,
uh,
guys,
uh,
that was on,
uh,
the lower decks.
That was one of the cartoons,
uh,
with the later animated series for star Trek where they brought the
troubles back and like,
that's where I see.
That's where I saw it.
Like,
yeah,
but that's,
I got nerd cred.
it could have been in next gen it could have been in a deep space nine would have been a perfect
place to bring triples back perfect for some reason i think there was at least a reference
at some point in deep space um and i i think a lot of that was
listen i get mad when people call him captain cisco that's the level of star trek nerd i am
him he's a commander all right he's starbase guy he was not like you know they didn't even give him
a ship till like season six or whatever that was so like come on it's cool i didn't watch that one
as much i did watch some of that one of course i watched voyager we all know why everybody watched
Voyager. Seven of nine, baby.
Seven of nine. Come on
now. See,
first of all,
I understand as
90s kids. Don't even pretend.
Come on. No, no, no.
That's okay. Listen, it's before
porn on the internet was a
thing. I guess it was a simpler time.
I have a type.
But I was a
I was a Dax
person. I liked
Terry Farrell.
Well, I liked her in, oh crap, back to school.
I want to say old school, but that was,
so the Rodney Dangerfield movie in the 80s.
It's just a cute Burnett with like pretty eyes, you know.
But 709 wasn't even on Voyager until season three, four.
Something like that.
See again, like I was more of a,
I was more of a Chakotay guy than a Tom Paris guy.
I mean, if you're going to.
But I was a next generation guy.
I think one of the first things I said to you guys was that Picard is the
superior captain in the Star Trek universe just across the board.
I'd actually have to agree with that.
And I think it follows.
It follows kind of.
I want to meet somebody who argues who, what captain.
No, because you think of like a naval captain, right?
Which this is, you know, very similar to in nature.
And they're well-read, very well-educated, very well-spoken.
And he fits all of those, right?
And his character just exudes that, you know?
And you have confidence in what he says and how he says it.
and how thoughtful he is about things, etc.
Yeah, so I would agree.
I do appreciate the fact that Roddenberry and more Rick Berman
somehow figured out a way to, even in centuries from now,
found a way to let Sir Patrick Stewart do Shakespeare during Star Trek.
And he just knew it.
you know, just rattle it off.
That's a well-rug captain.
You know what I mean?
Like, those are the kind of guys
I want commanding my ship.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Is it weird to you when you watch stuff
like the old Dune movies and he's in it
and like, dude, that ain't Captain.
There is.
Like, I mean, he's Captain Picard, right?
I think it might actually be called King Arthur.
It might be the original, like, the OG,
like, movie about that
where he's just a knight,
like, in, like, whatever.
I'm like, John Luke Picard is fucking whatever.
Like, yeah.
But he was, it's hard because I've known Patrick Stewart for 40 years.
I don't think he's aged at all somehow.
I think he's 112 years old and still looks like, you know,
like he should be commanding the Stargazer.
Thank you, guys.
I'm going to just, I'm going to give all my nerd cred,
like, just hammering on.
this guy? He did a great Professor X too
I thought he was great in the X-Men movies
I mean
yeah
that's kind of a role he built too
so well
not to transition
to different nerd culture but
Gandalf might be
coming back to do
some more
X-Men stuff which
he announced I think on Colbert
or whatever and you know
I mean, Lord of the Rings is my, that's my number one, like as a kid.
Don't run out, Havoc.
Yeah, same.
You, sir, have, you need to spend about 15 hours in front of a television.
Yeah, I know you probably didn't watch that episode, but yeah, I've never seen those movies.
Right, yeah.
I grew up with this.
Well, guys.
no i i grew up with this my my father actually got me uh the books
and i had the og i had the og like first edition like uh like back in the somewhere in my family's
cottage in geneva on lake ohio exists the original paperback copies of the lord of the rings and and
i got to uh i got the opportunity so kind of you know hey look yeah being old whatever
you know old people rule but hey i did get to go see the the very first lord of the rings the
animated one in a movie theater i also got to see like the rank and mass like the old school like
yes like frodo of the nine fingers like in the dumb 1976 or 77 or something i also got to see
star lx can we swear on this thing got to see star wars yes do whatever you want i'm not i'm
man fuck you guys hey fuck right off tell you i said yeah this mark the tape guys this is why i
told alex to go fuck himself when we were talking about like old school rankin bass uh uh terrible
animated Lord of the Rings from before I was born, but I still like,
like in my head, my dumb ADHD brain where it's like,
why am I good at trivia?
Because I can go Frodo of the nine fingers and the ring of doom.
Yeah.
You should read the books, LX.
It was really kind of cool though, because I,
I had enjoyed the books and I, you know, I'm a kid, you know,
I'm a little kid and I'm getting to go see this.
And it was,
you know,
back then it was,
it was pretty cool.
It was pretty cool.
So it's pretty cool.
Obviously,
I mean,
the,
the new ones are,
are that I think they're probably the best screen adaptation of a,
of a literary work that has ever been put out period.
Slow down havoc.
This is a whole different podcast about my half hour tirade about how Tom
Bombadil and the Barrow Downs and a bunch of
the things from the book didn't even make it.
It's a 12-hour movie. You couldn't
find at least a couple minutes to acknowledge
these things in the book? Like, what are we doing here?
No, I agree.
But again,
you know, I think...
You just said it was the best adaptation
ever. I think it is the best
ever. That doesn't mean it was perfect.
There are no perfect ones.
And the Dune ones, in my opinion, are
absolutely
barf. Sorry.
the newer ones are the newer ones the newer one is better a lot better but the the what was it
they came out with the the one in the 80s or whatever and i was like that was just terrible
i mean it was literally it captured like i don't know four pages out of the book or something
books technology limitation that's what they tell you no it was time it's it's all time is what it
is and the the lord of the rings they you know i guess you know a lot of back and forth and i think
even self-funded quite a lot of it because they wouldn't they were like nobody's gonna watch a
four-hour freaking movie yeah we will uh we'll watch the four-hour movie and then we will get
the director's cut that where i want the other hour and a half you cut from the original four-hour
movie like i i think i think they're better at it now um but i think the lord of the rings was
actually one of the uh the weird catalysts where well two things first of all i think that was
almost the predecessor to what we would refer to as binge watching now where it's like what do you
mean you're gonna sit down and watch 12 hours of it like i got nothing going on on sunday let's go
You know, they do with Star Wars, too.
They do, you know, like there's there's other like kind of like franchises where you could do that with.
But that was the first time any anybody had really kind of like lined it up the way they did.
Listen, I'm one of those guys like Peter Jackson did as great a job as anybody could do with that.
I firmly believe.
but because I was also like a Game of Thrones guy and watched George R.R. Martin just punt,
just be like, oh my God, I wrote something that people like, and I'd be like, well, nevermind.
I'll just...
That last season, really? I mean...
Yeah, the last season was bad. That last episode was probably the worst finish to anything.
well maybe Dexter beat it but other than that
just like absolutely terrible
no because they can bring Dexter back and I think they tried to
right?
well listen
there's a certain place in my heart for
finales that are that bad where people are like
oh no we gotta try this again
there's literally new Game of Thrones
offshoot on now
that I heard is actually really good, by the way.
I have not seen
whatever, the Seven Kingdoms one
that's out now.
But I hear good things.
Yeah, I haven't seen it either.
But I hear good things.
Which is better than I could say for
that last episode
of Game of Thrones.
Goddamn.
Yeah, I mean, that first season, man,
that first season was punchy.
I mean, you know, you just after about what six episodes in, you're like, OK, I think I get it now.
If I like anyone, they're dead or mutilated or both.
Listen, I hate to be at this point in my life and still have this level of trust issue.
But I do because it was like three episodes in a Game of Thrones or whatever they get.
I literally turn to my wife. I'm like, ah, he's the main character.
There's no way they're gonna oh my god, they cut his head off. What?
What the fuck? Oh, I got
Yeah
I mean
There something glorious to that in my eyes but at the same time man it was it was a little like you can do that that not how these things work you breaking the formula man i mean well so that and then the uh the red wedding are and listen
the last season sucked all the dicks but like to have a show that had without argument two of
the all-time like best like television moments two of the most talked about television moments
uh in the history of television especially in the 2000s where we don't consume uh media the
way we used to where we don't only have like four channels anymore there's a lot of options out there
so to have a sort of a pop culture like oh my god did you see the red wedding oh you know
and have that be something that sort of like that's the water cooler conversation is uh
that it's an accomplishment uh i mean not not the you know maybe not for the right reasons but
that's a whole different podcast but like people talked about that uh about how uh to your point
havoc like how much that was not the formula like or how much like you know oh this was the star of
the show and he's gone like and we just started like we just started liking this guy a little
by season three every time like uh uh my wife would turn to me go oh he's oh he's i like that
guy a lot i'm like well he'll be dead in two episodes because if you like him he's about to
die like and it was and he i blame uh i blame a plane crash on gray's anatomy where mc steamy
uh in his character arc like he just started not being a womanizing piece of shit and then
as soon as he was like i want to just be a normal guy and i like you a lot it was like well now
your plane crashed also the actual actor just passed away at like 53 years old or like at als
Eric Dean
shout out guys
shout out McSimi
he was the one that
chose his own
date correct
I don't know that
did he?
I think so
I want to say maybe not
maybe I'm thinking of someone else
in fact
now I'm thinking about it
I'm thinking of someone else
sorry
Right. My brain convoluted to another ALS person.
Listen, man. Hey, this is why we don't drink Jagerbombs.
Because you get distracted, Havoc.
I mean, sometimes you get a little confused and that's fine.
It's the age.
No, man. If we get older, our minds don't work the same.
It's like your hard drive, right?
It's been there.
Not my hard drive. Shut up. Shut up.
You've been away for like eight years and it's got that little clicking sound.
and you're like, hmm, and you go to access that one file
and it's like, ah, I can't open this, it's corrupt.
And you're like, ah, that's my brain now.
That one file?
Yeah.
That one file?
Is that the one file?
That's the memories in there.
The one you keep accessing over and over again, Havoc?
Is that the file we're talking about?
I mean, is that?
That container is very safe.
Where the hard drive out?
Like where the hard drive, I can't even get,
I can't read that anymore.
where it's just been just pounding.
Alex, I gotta ask this because this is just for me
and not to interview you guys for a minute,
but like, so you have a bunch of like Nintendo games behind you.
And so that was like, you know, I was a kid
and, you know, I'm a Zelda guy.
Contra or Castlevania?
Pick one.
Contra, just because I knew the Konami code
And I thought how like baller I was that I could have 30 lives and get
through that game.
Baller.
You could beat it without dying.
That's real baller.
All right.
I'm not trying to measure dicks on your podcast.
I was just trying to make a thing like, I'm sorry, nine-year-old me.
Anyway, didn't mean to interrupt you.
I needed a little bit of up, up, up, down, down, you know, and,
and really people don't we all just need a little up, up, down, down.
Left, right, left, right.
I mean, at the end of the day.
A little cheat code.
Combo move.
I wish there was, again, not to be all philosophical about it.
Like, God, I wish there was a life hack.
It was like, oh, no, I know the thing.
Up, up, and down.
I get the job.
Yay.
Probably a contra guy.
I love Castlevania.
It was the first side-scroll
story game
that existed back then.
Ghosts and Goblins, actually.
If you're going to do
a side-scroll just for that.
That's just too difficult.
You think that's too difficult?
Well, that's
nuts.
If you finish it, you've got to do it again
to actually get the real ending. That's the worst part
about it. It's not the worst part
about it. Metroid
was like that.
Do you remember how excited you were when Shamus took her thing off and it was like, oh, my God, it's a chick the entire time.
It's like the first like reveal like ever was like, oh, my God, I was I was a whole time I was killing things.
Yeah, that wasn't a thing back then.
This is way before, like, you know, whatever.
No politics.
We're having too much fun.
we didn't even get into the wrestling thing
I thought we were going to have to
have to get into that
and say hey man we need you to do a little
color in this episode brother
give a little blise to the fist over his head
the fact that you
are the carny is
I mean I was going to say
I want to say off putting but it's
not because it's 2026 and everybody
knows that but
The only reason I know that is because I live in Tampa and driving a truck, I had to listen to Bubba all, you know, like every day because that's all that was on.
Oh my God, that was Bubba the Love Sponge?
That was, yes.
He's a horrible human being, but.
No, I mean.
When you're stuck in a vehicle for 12 hours a day, you need something to do.
Bang your wife, apparently, if you're a Bubba fan.
Right?
does Havoc know anything about what we're talking about
by the way Havoc where you're
I have no idea
I just want to make sure how down a rabbit hole we are right now
about like
Hulk Hogan having sex with my wife
I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page here
because I want the metadata to
I want this to pop on when your podcast
go Hulk Hogan has
sex with wife and that's
whatever that's the clip that we have
no
let me tell you something brother
But my wrestling knowledge is fairly limited, and it is very, very old.
So we're talking like Andre the Giant, Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, people like that.
Did Hulk Hogan have sex with your wife as well?
No, no, no.
You're not everybody as close from this conversation as you think you are.
Just so you know, you're pretty close.
Okay.
On my way.
So Bubba the Love Sponge is a radio DJ in Tampa, and his best friend was Hulk Hogan.
And apparently he let Hulk Hogan bang his wife and then videotape.
Well, apparently there's actual footage.
There's no alleged for this.
This isn't a thing.
And then Bubba's producer took the tape and went to the media with it, supposedly, I guess.
Allegedly.
So that part we can allegedly where pretty sure Bubba was the guy that did it because Bubba's a worker, even though he's not a worker, but like Bubba knew this is going to get some headlines here.
Yeah, I was going to say that's, yeah, pageantry right there.
the pomp and circumstances but um no uh so i i got uh one of my mentors uh my mentor the mentor
uh for me in wrestling is uh samu and uh if you know uh old wrestling uh the wild samoans
uh it's afa and sika and then eventually they brought a third samoan that was samu
so those guys used to literally wrestle Andre the Giant and Hulk Hogan and all those guys in
the early 80s and stuff like that so when I got to travel with Samu a lot of the stories I learned
were you know I and and he was like 17 at that time this is before like whatever he was very
Samoan and they don't typically look 17.
They pretty much are fully formed out of the womb.
But getting a chance to kind of hear those stories and learn from those stories is an
experience that, so the reason I still try to be involved in wrestling is because it
is above almost anything else my passion.
It's one of the few places as an awkward president of the Dungeons and Dragons Club in my high school, Star Trek The Next Generation, yell at you about not understanding first age Isildur things in Lord of the Rings.
or the token bestidiary that I also have somewhere.
So that level of nerd, I guess,
it's an area that I believe I have way more credibility
than I do almost anywhere else.
I am, and this is, again,
for people listening of different generations,
This is before it was okay to be a nerd, just so you know.
So when I talk about this, and it seems like I'm saying this in some sort of derogatory manner, I'm not.
But back then, 30 years ago, they were shoving the president of the D&D club in the lockers.
Now it's super cool.
Thank you, Stranger Things and whatever.
but like you know now it's you know a little more mainstream wrestling is one of those things that
has been at points mainstream uh that it's not uh it's getting there again but like
like my uh my experience with wrestling was uh the mid-90s really as i was kind of a teenager
where it was like that was the rock and stone cold steve austin and that era the attitude era
of wrestling when wrestling was mainstream popular.
To Havoc's point, that was the early 80s
where also that was kind of a wrestling boom.
That was 15 years before that.
That was Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant
and Macho Man and all that era.
But that's, you know, it's entertaining.
You know, it should be.
but those were the people that
as I broke into the actual wrestling business
I was super excited to get to
just meet first of all
but then also kind of like learn from
experience
those guys that had their experiences
with Andre the Giant.
And like, oh, I wrestled a six-man
with Andre and Hulk and Bruno San Martino.
It was me and my dad and my uncle
against, you know,
three of the biggest icons ever in wrestling.
And that's awesome to,
like, I think there's a certain obligation
to sort of pass that on
if you have the opportunity to do so.
One of my music friends earlier in my career taught me about paying it forward.
And, you know, Alex talked about, you know, cover bands or music and entertainment in general.
Like there's a certain ego involved in a lot of that.
So the initial kind of like thought is screw that guy, you know, give me the job.
or he's not as good as I am, or he's not as, you know, whatever.
But it's a wrong premise, and it's a wrong premise
because in most of these fields, podcasting included, by the way,
art, and wrestling is art, is subjective.
one of the reasons I love
professional wrestling
as much as I do
one of the reasons I love music as much as I do
is there
is never going to be
a time where
I get off of
I get off stage or
I get out of a wrestling ring or
whatever where I go
well that was it
that was the one guys that was
that was the best
ever that's ever going to be ever in anything because that's not that vibe.
Like, so my background was sales or like, you know, real life things where it's like,
cool, my job is to do mortgages or finance.
So you have a, this is your sales goal.
This is the sales quota.
This is the record for the best salesperson that's ever done this ever.
He did this.
So then what happens when you beat that?
Then what?
What's like, where do you go from there?
As the adult poster child for ADHD, I get bored.
So one of the great things about wrestling,
one of the reasons that it is my number one passion,
my first love, is there's never going to be that, like, that was the one.
Because it's art, and it is subjective.
What I like as a wrestling fan might be vastly different
than what somebody else likes as a wrestling fan.
My Mount Rushmore, and we do this in wrestling a lot,
who's your Mount Rushmore of, you know, best wrestlers or, you know, whatever.
and it's always different it for me it's different literally on a day-to-day basis
like depending on what i'm thinking about like as far as like like these are the the the guys
and for somebody who has like sort of that you know like my brain uh which you know we call it
neurodivergent is the actual word for it uh if you're looking it up but like but having like
not a bad brain or whatever,
like,
just a different brain.
Like,
it keeps me,
wrestling keeps me engaged
more than anything else ever has.
Like,
video games are,
I love video games
because you can,
you know,
a lot of games where it's like,
you can choose to be
just a piece of shit
in your video game
and, like,
that's your ending there.
Or, like,
you know,
like,
I gotta give,
I wanna do Kingdom Come
deliverance to again
and just be just a dick
the entire time.
Oh, I did get to Ben Catherine.
I mean, I did.
All right with that.
But I slaughtered a village
and the other girl
didn't want to have sex with me
because I slaughtered a village.
But I thought I had to do that
because, you know,
they were going to go tell people
that we were there.
My burning question,
how does somebody get into wrestling?
Is it like probably physical attributes
have something to do with it?
No, no.
You have to know somebody or you just like knock on the door and say,
yo, dog, let me in.
I want to do this.
No, my mom dropped me on my head a lot when I was a kid.
And I figured, find a way to get paid for it.
No, I'm kidding.
I mean, she did, but no.
Back then, it was different again.
Like wrestling was a lot more sort of guarded.
You know what I mean?
Like the carnival, kind of like the behind the curtain thing wasn't as,
known as it is now. And people all the time, you know, like, oh, wrestling's, you know,
not real. And I always say this, and I will answer your question, but I want to make sure
that as I do that, I sort of frame it in this way. If you play football, for example,
and you're a running back
and you hit the gap and you're running
and you see a linebacker
lining you up.
He's about to lay you out
as linebackers do
if you have a solid A-gap run.
Now, you know that guy's about to hit you.
You know it's coming.
it doesn't make it any less real when he hits you and that's that's sort of the
simplistic analogy uh that i have for wrestling as a guy uh who has a triple fused neck
turns out it is way more real uh than people think but uh i was a fan to your actual question
LLX. I was a, you know, as a kid, again, that was the kind of the wrestling boom growing up was,
you know, Shawn Michaels throwing Marty Jannetty through a barbershop window. And then,
you know, you're hooked. It's the live action soap opera that's, you know, is sort of the
predicate for like even UFC and all these like combat sports now that have, you know,
the Conor McGregors of the world that are literally out there cutting wrestling
promos, but they're doing it for the exact same reason.
They're doing it to get people to buy tickets to the show.
They're doing it to be like, I'm going to, I, you know what?
I love Conor McGregor or they're doing it to go, you know what?
That guy's an asshole and I hate him. I'm,
I can't wait to see him get knocked out. I'm,
but you're still buying the pay-per-view and that's,
that all comes from professional wrestling,
That level of showmanship and presentation was all way before its time.
So that's sort of what I fell in love with growing up.
To that point, I started out as a fan.
But in the early days of the internet, I used to write like a wrestling column for a website called Scoops Wrestling.
And then for a website called 411 Wrestling.
in the early days of wrestling and the internet there were a few really big
websites where a lot of people went and this is even before like the WWF at the time or WCW even had like an internet presence Like we were out there getting hundreds of thousands of like views because people that
liked wrestling, there was nowhere else to really go for that.
So I was at 16 years old as a high school student, like a, a fairly popular weekly columnist
for wrestling.
When I moved back to Pittsburgh, there was a local wrestling company that had a television show on.
And this is like Saturday.
So it was like shotgun Saturday night for like the WWF.
And then a company called ECW had their wrestling show that was also on Saturday nights.
but after that there was this local uh like uh regional wrestling company out of pittsburgh
that had a television show and it turns out they were only about you know a half hour away from
where i was you know staying with my grandma at the time so i went to one of their shows
you know and i showed up you know like an 18 year old uh hustler back in the day havoc
people of our generation that want to work.
I showed up and was like,
Hey,
I'm so-and-so a couple of the wrestlers were aware of my existence because of
my,
uh,
writing,
uh,
on,
on the interwebs.
I,
uh,
was like,
Hey,
can I,
can I help?
Can I be whatever?
Um,
so,
you know,
I did it the old school way,
like your old paying your dues kind of way.
Like,
I swept the floors for a couple of weeks.
The next TV taping, they needed somebody to do like a mean Gene Okerlund thing backstage where let me interview the wrestlers, you know, and just.
So now I'm on TV at 18 years old.
Now I'm on TV interviewing, you know, those guys or whatever like that.
Then I did play by play and commentary.
And I went to my undergrad.
I went for broadcasting and that was what I thought I was going to do.
back when I thought I had to figure out what I wanted to be,
when and if I grew up.
Now it's a trap, I know.
But like back then, you know,
grandma was telling me to get a job and figure out a career
and all that stuff.
So I'll be the new Steelers play-by-play guy,
like most 18-year-olds.
Or they want to be on CSI.
I mean, back then it was, you want to be on CSI
or you want to be like, you know, whatever.
that you're a sports guy.
At some point, they realized that I am,
as you said, Havoc, you know, 6'1", 235,
you know, at that point.
I was a baseball player in college.
Like, you know, like I'm holding up, guys.
Thank you for noticing.
I know.
It's not just the hair.
I'm, you know, the triple neck fusion
and the lack of meniscus that I have,
but I'm still doing okay.
Yeah, but the hair lends, like, so much credibility.
It's good for TV.
I'm not going to lie.
It does, you know, does make me marketable in some circles.
But like, but back then, like it was, you know, do commentary.
And then they were like, hey, I was hanging out for like training sessions or whatever
like that, you know, hey, Sean, come in here and, you know, here, you know, you're a big
guy.
Be a, be our tackling dummy for training for the next six months.
And that's pretty much what it was.
It was pretty much some of the best wrestlers to come out of Pittsburgh.
A few of them in particular took pity on me or needed a guy that will let them keep dropping them on their head.
And I was eager to do so.
But I learned how to wrestle that way.
And then got an opportunity to, you know, go to West Virginia and, you know, wrestle in a battle royal and all that kind of stuff.
Like, as you know, again, this is a sort of the evolution of wrestling back then where the business was a little more guarded, a little more protected where, you know, you didn't have new people training that shouldn't be training.
I was lucky enough to kind of break in that way.
And that was back to the Samoan sort of thing.
Like I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to drive, you know,
because they're old school legends.
They don't want to drive.
They've been doing it.
They've been traveling the road for 30 years.
Hey, hey kid, here's the keys.
Take me to the show in Ohio and, you know,
I'll talk to the promoter and get you, uh, get you, get you a match like early, you know, you,
you can open the show, you can be the opening guy or whatever like that. And, but you get,
you get a chance to ride along with these guys that have the Andre, the giant stories or the
Hulk Hogan stories or the, the business used to be this way stories. And then you get a chance to
kind of like, um, to, to put that into like very trial by fire, very much like an actual, like,
Oh, we're doing the thing that you just talked about.
So that was, that was how I broke into the business.
It's not like that anymore, but you know, that's,
that's one of the things where like, and you probably know this havoc,
like you're a music guy and Alex was talking about death metal or whatever,
you know, like again, being subjective, like my dad would,
would, you know, big like Zeppelin, like Santana,
like very like 60s and 70s stuff that our dads listen to.
And he would go, you know, when I was listening to stuff I grew up on,
like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains,
he'd be like, ah, that's not even music anymore.
You know, just like old wrestlers like, ah,
these kids aren't even wrestling anymore.
It's fucking bad.
But I think every generation has that exact argument.
Like we're now we're like, what the fuck?
These kids are listening.
It's not even music anymore.
Why is that?
You know, because we grew up on, you know, I find myself doing that.
Guilty.
Right.
I have to admit, though, you know, there has been a decline in in general.
I think when I look at music from like I love, you know, hippie music, I love the old psychedelic music, you know, old Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin.
Leplin, stuff like this. But I also, you know, I'm a big, you know, I guess I like, I'm a fan of bands. I'm a fan of musicians. Where I start to lose interest is when it's a person singing and a bunch of electronic, you know, drum beats added in and electronic mixing and sampling and things of that nature where I go, yeah, that's very, very talented editing.
What about Nine Inch Nails?
but what about them they're saying well that's pretty much it just one good one dude yeah and
and i've never i've never been i mean so was like i mean it's not like never been like but but like
nirvana was good you know um you know stone pimple toilets were pretty okay and you love
alice and chains i know you do no every time we get together you play them on your spotify like
it's the non-stop my man got to play with uh stone table pilots uh
gosh it's one of like 2011 uh we were young and we opened for those guys at like the amphitheater
in pittsburgh and wyland was sober and he was terrible you had to be like you had to be like
he was so much better when he was all whacked out you know but like no but like but to your
point you're saying the exact you're you're saying the same things like ah music is you know
it's all you know whatever and well find me name one band that has come out in the last
10 years that plays like zeppelin greta van fleet like literally like yeah almost exactly like like
glenn zeppelin right exactly greta van fleet yeah oh fleet okay i don't know him so you know
i enjoy that kind of don't ask if you're asking for music for the past 10 years and you don't
know the actual band that said the the first thing people were like every time every time i turn
something on on the radio it's not it's not that so that's that's my take on it right it's not
like i'm i guess yeah maybe i am just old fuddy no don't you dare havoc sir sir don't you dare
feel like you are perpetuating any stereotype about what i literally just made a point about no
no sir you're right your music is the best music and these guys aren't even they don't even play
instruments anymore havoc they don't even play their own instruments anymore dad i don't like i
generally don't like that i just don't i know that don't get me wrong like we're we're gonna go to
like some edm thing with with our oldest son and and i can vibe on that i can dig on it right um
under certain circumstances it becomes very good you have to be really high you have to be really
there's drugs that's that's gonna be there's yeah there you go so we're not advocating i'm just
saying if if you want to consume certain things you know there are ways to make that more enjoyable
yes the guy who's so you know i'm i'm very open i i like to think musically certain things don't
touch my ears but like i like classic classical music i like classic rock i like rock and roll i
like jazz to an extent when it gets discordious and stuff my brain doesn't pick that up and and
make it make sense uh and i i get the musical talent there but i can't can't really focus on
it i guess it's too but do you though i mean because here's here's the thing like like you
would look at somebody like like taylor swift and you would say well she's you know whatever
she's not playing her whatever but even though you know like i i had this argument all the time
where people go well that's not the you know they're not the best musicians well no the best
musicians are playing jazz and shit that nobody likes it doesn't like the best musicians are not
the most marketable musicians. It's why Britney Spears was a thing.
I mean. Well, but you can look at, you can look at things like Jimmy
Page and that flips it on or Dimebagg Earl.
Do you remember the day Britney Spears turned 18? I bet you do.
Well, I bet you. Sir.
Sir, we're in the trustee here on this podcast, sir. I want you to understand this is a
safe place for us to talk about. I honestly don't. I was about the
same age so it was a little different for me but like like she was hit me maybe one more time she
wasn't even 18 years old at that point so like you know do you think Britney Spears is the greatest
musician uh you know of the 90s like she wasn't she sold a lot of records it doesn't again that's
the subject uh subjectivity of of music or wrestling or art in general so you're not wrong
being the crotchety old man that you just
revealed yourself to be.
That's not a news.
We're not breaking any ground on your board.
No, it's not.
It's not breaking news.
I remember back when I was, I know, I do too,
Dad. It's fine. I remember too.
Now hold that flashlight
steady.
Okay, Boomer. Sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm not a Boomer, though. I'm not a Boomer.
I'm Jen Boomer.
Well, you're a boomer adjacent, sir.
Nice rants, by the way, about how much better things used to be back in your day.
Tell me more.
Well, you know.
Tell me more, Dad.
Okay.
I will say this.
Another thing that I really enjoy about back in my day was the lack of electronics.
Unfortunately for all of us, it's going to be all AI music in the next five to ten years.
It's already infiltrating things now.
It's horrible.
And some of it's actually pretty dang good.
it is until you start like thinking about it and you're like man that's that's crap i mean it might
be just because uh social media is what it is but i i vaguely remember like hearing a story a few
months ago like where like uh people were like oh hey you know jim bob and the uh the fuckheads like
you know this band that everybody's like these guys are great they're like they're and it turns
out they're not real people it's all just a computer generated like churned out a couple
like country songs or whatever it was,
where it's like, these guys are great.
When are they going to tour?
I'm like, I bet they're not going to tour.
Yep.
But again, that goes back to the thing
I kind of started this with,
where people consume music differently,
just art in general.
Like I said, I grew up where there was four channels,
and you can be on a wrestling show
at 1 o'clock in the morning on Saturday,
and I had more people watching that show
than primetime shows have now because so many,
there's so many different,
like I'm watching podcasts on YouTube now.
I'm not watching like NBC or whatever they're,
you know, there's no more TGI Friday lineup.
There's no like, you know,
there's no Seinfeld or Friends or those things
where it's like you have to tune in and watch these shows
because, you know, tomorrow at the office,
we're going to be talking about this,
like where oh my god Ross and Rachel whatever you know whatever it was but but it was it it was way
more of a shared experience back then and I'm not saying it's better or worse it is
admittedly just different like the way people consume uh entertainment and arts uh on a macro
level is just uh it's so substantially different that we're not going to ever have
you know Taylor Swift I think transcends that but you know she is pretty inevitable like as far as
like who she was and I tried to hate Taylor Swift for years I tried out loud to hate her if you
look at my old social media it's you know how she was manufactured in a lab by record executives
and everything she did was just carefully cultivated and like she's you know they made
in a lab you know and now like kind of like seeing like like like who'd have thought taylor swift
would be like the the shining beacon of you know musical authenticity or like uh i'm gonna own my
own arts and all all of these fights that taylor swift has has had that are are sort of for the
like the greater good of of music and you know that that was sort of the wrestling thing we were
talking about a little bit where it's like she got to a point where she can finally sort of like
give back like pay the business back like who the people that made her the people that afforded her
the opportunity to be who she is now you could pay it forward it's one of the things I try to tell
younger wrestlers uh other musicians and and by the way I don't call myself a musician uh because
of the Jimmy Pages of the world, the actual musicians.
I'm a guy.
If you use your voice and or play an instrument,
then that qualifies you as a musician.
And I do want to make one point.
It doesn't any more than me throwing a fucking football in my backyard
makes me an NFL quarterback, Havoc.
It doesn't make you an NFL quarterback,
but it does make you someone that plays football.
There's the difference, right?
You're right.
I scored four touchdowns in one game of Paul Kai.
I did score four touchdowns in one game.
There you go.
So one point of clarification.
I don't necessarily like some of the music.
Like, I'm not a big fan of, like, I don't, I don't, like, avoid listening to, like, Taylor Swift, but I don't.
Where are you that you are?
I don't listen to it.
But hold on.
I recognize talent, but I can also say that's not my cup of tea.
And that's where I stand.
I don't say it's trash.
I try not to do that, right?
Instead, it's I'm not a fan of it.
I don't like it.
I have these preferences in music.
Because, look, at the end of the day, these are obviously talented people.
They wouldn't be where they are.
But you also can't pick out a single artist in the past decade of new content, right?
Not one?
Two decades for me.
see a new artist with new i mean you know yeah i probably can some country music stars but
you know i i don't know auto tuners here's the thing country music now is 90s alternative
like if you actually like think about it like listen to a a florida georgia song and then
listen to a three doors down song right after it and tell me which one like you know what i mean
it's so but again that's that's the evolution that's music uh evolving as a whole but like
oh yeah so like i'm i'm slightly more familiar with newer music just because i have to be because
of my job but like you know i i you know i don't listen to anything besides like pop rocks or like
alt nation or whatever like that. Like, again, like I grew up on, like,
I think the music you like when you're 15 years old is sort of the music that
shapes, uh, who you are like through your life,
because inevitably that's the first time you are, um,
just aware of, of, of, you know,
sort of what you like and what's available. And, uh,
and then as newer things come out, you go, well, that's not what I like.
you know i you know and listen i i'm playing a little devil's advocate i'm also literally the
same person uh they're like this music is bullshit well like you know uh understanding that
you know the point originally was like my my dad had the same argument with me
like as a kid where i was listening to the stuff on the radio in the 90s and he's you know he's
go wow what is this what is this that's not even he's not even playing on you know
like but but i am uh from a uh entertainer standpoint i am and you might appreciate this
uh havoc as a man of a certain age um i am way more of a david lee roth than i would be a sammy
Hagar. Does that make sense? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I said all the time. It's like, so, so David is,
is by far, uh, in my opinion, uh, probably one of the best front men of all time. Uh,
great performer. Yeah. Not a great musician. Uh, not even a great singer really. Uh, and then you
got a guy like Sammy Hagar, who is a great guitar player, amazing vocalist. And, you know,
Sammy can play all of Dave's songs. Dave can't sing Sammy's songs. And that is sort of my
entertainer versus musician argument that I make all the time. So when people call me a musician,
I go, no, no, no. People like actually work at this. Like I'm a guy who can sing a little bit and,
you know, I can jump around the stage and do what I do. But that's, that's, you know,
that's for me being in my underwear with a microphone in front of 10,000 people. Like I'm just like,
That aspect of it doesn't like dent me the way it does a lot of musicians who might be amazing musicians, but might not be good performers.
You know, might be the kind of guy who just has to sit in the back and, you know, do their thing.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
So if I'm 80% performer and 20% musician, what I need to do is complement myself with guys that are 80% musician and maybe 20% performer.
Because if they're looking at me and I'm dancing on the bar, singing Miley Cyrus Party in the USA, the only way that makes sense is if I've got a great band with me that can give some semblance of like musical credibility to that performance.
And you need both of those things.
And none's not even better than the other, but you need both.
Thank you.
Yeah, absolutely perfect because, I mean, that's essentially what the original Van Halen was, a front man and then a really excellent set of musicians behind them.
And he's just shredding, yeah, behind them.
But it worked.
Yep.
And this is before, you know, right now in the 80s and where they had like, like when Van Halen had keyboards and stuff like that, you know, like, I don't know how much of a purist you are, like not the 5150 like Van Halen, but like, you know.
they changed.
They evolved.
They did.
We all can't be California girls, guys.
I mean, we want to.
No, apparently not.
No.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
And now.
Do it.
We need more guys,
middle-aged white guys in jean shorts
playing at their bar up the road.
The world needs more of that.
Please.
always jorts always jorts always like a like a like a weird like affliction t-shirt like
2026 by the way we're doing this like you know uh lugging in like martial half stacks like old
school like big ass amps like to play for like 70 people like at their neighborhood bar and like
like as as i continue to like to travel and and play music and stuff together like our equipment
gets smaller and smaller because it's more shit we have to like lug around so now it's like just
oh we just have these pedals now that make it sound like an amp and we just just plug this in
and we don't have to bring the whole thing and you know but again uh musicians also uh fear change
a lot or you know i think people in general uh have it not to i feel like i'm piling on at this
point like like no no i'm big on fearing change i i don't like change nobody does that's a normal
that's a normal psychological thing but nobody is super pumped about like oh cool the thing that i'm
comfortable with in you know familiar with whatever i got now that's not the thing anymore
cool i mean and as you get older like alex and i were talking about uh as we become
more antisocial in our crotchety old man phase of our life. It's, it's largely in my experience
based around that. Like, I don't want to, like, I don't want to jump through hoops to like learn,
you know, I don't want to like, I don't want to do it your way. My way is fine. Shut up. You know,
but it's a lot of that sort of battling against that where it's like you brought up AI or you
brought up like these new new technology where you know you know the Foo Fighters are one of my
favorite bands and they had a documentary where uh Dave Grohl like purposely even with new technology
wanted to record like on old school like eight track like tape to tape like you know analog
you know sort of thing for uh their their record and and that was controversial uh and this is you
know the early aughts because you know pro tools existed or like you know macbooks and you know
you could there's easier and and you know objectively ways to make things sound better
that existed the technology is in place where you know this is before like the actual like
auto tune and all the things that we are aware of now but that stuff was around you know you didn't
have to you know play like an imperfect you know kind of thing and then try to like shine it up and
do whatever they get but but he as sort of that old school guy wanted to have uh a more in his
opinion a more authentic presentation of the music that they were playing
you know listen he's sold millions more records than i've sold so you have to at some point go
you know it's not right or wrong it's that's he didn't want to
embrace that newer kind of method of writing an album that he was kind of clinging to or
or showing homage to or like you know just tipping his hat to you know the people that
came before him that had to do it that way but he's also good enough that that was part of
his ego where like he wanted to kind of almost like challenge himself to go look yeah I know
all these you know pro tools and all these things exist where we can just you know clean this up
and make it you know we could bang this out whatever like that I want to do it the way
Jimmy Page did it I want to do it the way that the Beatles did I want to do it the way you know
like I want to compare this art that I'm putting out to that art that I loved and grew up on and was
shaped by um so to it's a long it's a long-winded way to say hey Havoc don't go changing buddy you
don't have to you you know I'm not gonna don't worry about it I mean I know you're not gonna
but I was just trying to tell you
you don't have to
I appreciate the validation
the change is why these old guys
are spending all this money on these
vintage Gibsons and Fenders and stuff
you can buy a much
better guitar for a lot less money
you can download
the plug in that sounds
literally exactly like
if I go like I want
you know Jimmy Page's
guitar on Zeppelin
for this
and hit the tone,
I could download that exact
guitar profile into my
Helix pedal and
step on stage, hit that button
and my guitar will sound like
Jimmy Page's guitar. I can't play it like he
does, but it's going to sound like
a very, it's going to sound like
Jimmy Page's guitar played by
a guy who doesn't know how to play guitar.
Nobody's going to go, oh,
the tone is off. No, it's exactly
like, that's the
technology part of it.
But there's also been, at least, it's been a while since I did go into one, but, you know, in, like, getting this gear, et cetera, LX turned me on to Sweetwater.
And great place, by the way.
Tom calls me every other day still.
I haven't bought anything from them in four years, and they still are like, hey, what's up?
I just want to check in with you guys.
How's that?
How's that X-18 working out for you?
I'm like, still good, man.
I'm still, I don't need another mixer.
Thank you.
Right.
Yeah.
So, but it's still good guys.
But one thing that's interesting, absolutely.
Follow through, follow up everything.
And then of course, you know, they send you candy.
I think with their shit, they send you candy.
They still do that.
So, but, um, I noticed a resurgence of, uh, tubed heads.
Right.
And that's, that's old technology.
Right.
The head unit for your amp.
Right.
I've noticed that there's a resurgence.
So that never really went away.
So I worked at Guitar Center for a minute
after the mortgage business went away.
I had a good severance package and some time on my hands.
So again, the band thing was just supposed to be
to get free beer and meet girls.
But I had some time off,
so I literally took a part-time job at Guitar Center.
So what we saw even back then, this is like 2009,
a lot of the amps that we selling were still very much old school tube amps and stuff like that And even today like if people are buying amps like actual physical amps still
they typically want something that has like that sort of vintage setup or at least like a modeling amp.
It used to be where you could kind of change the settings on there to do so.
Tube amps are a little more expensive.
Tube amps are a little harder to maintain, especially again, and this is back when modeling amps were sort of new, which were static amps, so no tubes, but you could basically change the knobs and go like, I want, you know, a heavier tone or I want like, you know, a bluesy, you know, and you can go through the knobs on the amp itself, like instead of having to dial in like that specific tone.
and you know this is back when you know jimmy page had one pretty distinct sound because that
was where that was that les paul that was that marshall stack and that was that was the sound
but now like you have so many different like presentations or profiles for music especially
in like a cover band like i do we're like you know you're doing you know a led zeppelin song
But then I'm doing like a Hootie and a Blowfish song after that, where very different profiles as far as what you need out of like your guitar and everything like that.
So I think that flexibility is important.
But I think for musicians or like songwriters or people that are looking for their sort of sound, so to speak, you know, but those are people that are writing in one sort of specific voice for what they are trying to create, which is amazing.
but you're absolutely right.
There's still that,
like we used to call them tone chasers.
So if you ever watch,
if you're as big of a nerd as I am,
Metalopolis, like Death Clock.
So they literally talk about that on,
like it's a cartoon on Adult Swim.
It's an amazing thing that like literally I,
it reminded me of my own band
where you have these different personalities and,
you know, but they talk about like chasing that tone.
And I've had guitar players that,
are so the kind of old school are so like kind of married to that,
that concept of, of that like kind of authentic guitar sound.
And that doesn't exist without a tube amp,
without like that Marshall stack or without a Les Paul,
like this specific kind of things,
or even like the original Ibanez tube,
literally a pedals, it's called a tube screamer,
which the entire pedal is designed to just maximize that,
that sort of like that crunch that comes only from those old,
from heating up those old school,
like a Fender Blues Deluxe or a Marshall Stack with the tubes.
Like there are very specific,
like vintage like sounds that are like,
even now 50 years later are just synonymous.
You could say that tone and people know what you're talking about because guys
like Jimmy Page made that so iconic, you know, in that setup.
And there's, you know, again, that doesn't exist now,
but even as, you know, the modeling amps
and the technology is around to replicate that,
it's, you know, it's not the real thing.
And there is something to be said for that as well.
It's clear.
I had a friend that was, I mean, you know,
very very uh talented guitar player and played for a grindcore band but
jesus that that's what he liked um but you know and it's funny because this was in the
late 80s i think early 90s and the guy late i i almost i don't know what late 80s grindcore
sounds like and now i actually kind of want to oh there's some good stuff out there yeah there is
but uh he he had this obsession to try and figure out how to replicate
carrie king's sound so slayer the lead guitars for slayer and he just was like i cannot get this
one right i cannot get the right amount of distortion the right amount of compression
you know everything about it is it just i can't get it to line up i'm like i'm literally in my
head, I'm like a Schechter seven string.
Like, you know what I mean?
I'm like in my head, I'm like, what, where would I start?
It'd be like, yeah, it'd be like a seven string guitar, which if you don't know,
guitars usually have six strings on them.
The seven string has like a little bit of a deeper kind of thing.
Kerry King, Zach Wild, a lot of those guys were the first people to put the heavier strings
on their guitar.
and they did that because it would give a lower end,
kind of like a little more like fullness, low end kind of crunch.
And that was new back then.
I mean, listen, we're an hour and a half in
and I'm going to go down a Black Sabbath rabbit hole
if you want to talk about original guitar tone.
Like we have a lot of different podcasts we can do, boys.
I'll see you guys tomorrow, same time.
We can do it.
this has been a great one no you guys have been great like i thank you and you know and i know
we're uh we're past bedtimes and everything we got but no you're absolutely right about like
carrie king and like but those were but that was innovative back then that was like that was a that
was a pioneer like sort of like mindset when it came to like that i know you're not you're not a
nine-inch nails guy but one of the reasons that trent reznor was so iconic in the 90s is he was
one of the first people that was like, how do I replicate this without that production? And that
was newer technology for him, but that hadn't existed before that. I mean, Prince did it a
little bit where he was one of the first people to kind of like play all of the instruments on his
own albums. Dave Grohl did that for the first Foo Fighters album where he played everything
and then basically hired a band after that.
But that was, those were new things, you know,
in the 80s, 90s, you know, kind of thing.
So like, but that's sort of the evolution of music as a whole.
But like, but that I remember like, you know,
having those conversations about like that heavier kind of,
how do you get that crunch?
Like, how does that exist?
And then like, you had specific guitars.
You had Ibanez, you had Schechter.
She had these guitars that were almost like made to be like metal guitars.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
The world idea.
Exactly.
The flying V I've got a, like Jägermeister has, I have literally a,
it's like a Dean I think made it, but it was like a Dean, like,
like a flying, like they have a,
I have a Jägermeister guitar that they sent me that they're like, play this.
I'm like, there's no way for me to play like, you know,
brown eyed girl on a flying V.
It's not going to be one thing.
I'm insane.
But like,
if you're,
if you're looking for that sound,
I mean that that's how to do it.
And those were the pioneers for that.
Yep.
Nice.
Good pull.
All right.
So thank you very much for joining us.
I think we've,
we've kind of expired our,
our time.
I,
if anybody is still listening,
God bless you.
Thank you for,
they will be,
they love us.
and they're going to love you.
So we asked you before, we're going to ask you now.
So throughout our lives, there's an individual or a historic figure,
could be a sixth grade science teacher, whoever,
but someone that comes along that makes a profound and lasting impact in our lives.
And we like to give our guests the ability to shout out that person.
you know i i know you uh you you did uh you didn't try to
no i well no because as soon as you brought it back up i went oh
crap we got down so many different rabbit holes that like
you know when you uh when you brought it up to me uh you know 90 minutes ago
i sort of had one uh like kind of direction with that in mind and then
the way you brought it up reminds
me of a guy
named Chris Van Vliet who does a wrestling podcast and he does a great job with it and one of the things he does with his guests is he talks about gratitude at the end of his show
where he talks about how big of a role gratitude plays in his life.
And he asks his guests, what are three things you're grateful for?
And it's kind of the one, like you said, it's kind of the one question that he asks.
and even in your question
I'm already down another
rabbit hole of
my brain so
let me
first and foremost thank you guys
for having me on
and for going through
some weird
journey with my
clearly
different
brain
one of the reasons I love music
I had a blast
i did too appreciate you coming thank you guys i appreciate that uh and uh i you know i wanted to
talk more about star trek uh or uh starfleet academy and how much i uh how much it's pissing
on gene roddenberry's grave and all that stuff we didn't even get to we didn't get the nine of
the things that we actually like welcome to my life like where it's like i was supposed to do
you know this contract for whatever that I just remembered that I didn't do um so
it's so weird so it's it's a um it's a subjective question but it's also
because I have been shaped by so many different things and because uh of the way you know like
having like kind of a, like, like an autistic, like ADHD brain and having that superpower and,
and sort of processing things the way that I've, I've always kind of processed things. And I didn't
know any of this stuff until recently, like I was ADHD before it was cool. But now, you know,
kind of understanding a little more about, you know, having like a neurodivergent brain and,
how, you know, I may process things differently, but not wrong or not right, just different. And
so a lot of what I try to talk about through whatever I'm rambling on about, and I do this
on stage too, by the way, which is one of the, it became part of my stage show where it's more
interactive and more like crowd work and doing like sort of like almost like standup comedy
between occasionally remembering to play a song.
But it's a different presentation,
but it's a very authentic to me presentation.
Some people like it, some people don't,
but that's how subjective music is.
So my influences,
so since we're finishing on music, I'll do this one.
But I also have like wrestling influences.
I have all that stuff.
But one of the things we talked about during this show was the concept of paying it forward.
I learned that from a young lady called Laura Lee.
Laura Lee is one of the best cover band.
And she writes her own music, too.
She's one of the best musicians and one of the best people that I ever had the opportunity to meet as a aspiring cover band.
And we're based out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
And there's not really a big music scene here for what we do.
There's dad bands.
There's the guys that will throw in the jorts and make all their family and friends come out the three or four times a year that they go out.
play Mustang Sally or whatever they, you know, whatever, whatever they play.
And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's a different thing than I would like to make a living
doing this, find a way to get paid for it. So, um, Laura Lee, uh, was one of the first people
that I met out, uh, in Dewey beach. Like, so if, if you know anything about, uh, the, the East
coast of the United States. Like there's a corridor out there where in the summertime you get a bunch
of people from like Philly and Wilmington and all these, like even Pittsburgh, like everybody goes
to the beach and the beach out there is it's a, it's Rehoboth beach, Dewey beach, Fenwick,
I'm sorry, Bethany beach, Fenwick beach and the ocean city, Maryland. So you have like an hour
the kind of like stretch of beachfront,
like everything like that,
and a bunch of amazing bars,
and they all have live music out there.
So it was an opportunity to go and do this.
So I went out there,
saw Laura Lee's band,
Laura Lee and Trip Fabulous,
if you want to see them.
I think they're actually literally down in Key West right now
playing at a place that I play down there called Sloppy Joe's.
So, but Laura Lee was one of the first bands that I saw where, you know, you see somebody kind of doing like, oh, next level.
It's like, you know, like I want to play in the NFL.
And then you actually go see like Peyton Manning throw a ball and you go, oh, shit.
Oh, hey.
So she was doing it and she was just, I mean, amazing.
First of all, just a beautiful person, gorgeous girl, amazing singer, amazing songwriter, amazing front man, everything that if I want to be like that when I grow up, that would be what I want to be.
also one of the kindest people
because she was one of the first people that taught
me the concept
as we talked about a little earlier
about paying it forward
where Laura Lee was
somebody who let my band
open for her
and her band at
like one of the biggest like bars
in the country like one of the
most popular like the highest profile
like kind of places
ever and this might have been like 2005
2006 I want to say
But that was somebody who was comfortable enough with where she was and where her band was to not feel like another band is quote unquote competition.
and there's a lot of ego involved in professional wrestling,
a lot of ego involved in music, just as a performer.
There's a certain degree of like insecurity
that just kind of comes with what we do.
And I didn't realize this was everybody.
I thought it was just me,
where for the thousands and literal thousands of shows
that I've played in my entire life,
before every one of those shows,
I go through this like,
if you like watch like Dewey Cox like walk hard like you go through this thing where like before
you go on stage you got to go through like all this like all the things that you got to like you
know but it's that you go through this this they're gonna hate me uh I'm gonna sound bad I'm gonna suck
they're gonna fire me I can't believe it's an imposter syndrome thing really because you're out
there sort of playing a character on stage and she was so comfortable with who she was that it
almost like put me at ease. And then the concept of like, you know, we're not competition,
like a rising, you know, tide helps all the ships. We don't, it doesn't help me to talk badly about,
you know, another wrestler or another band or whatever like that. It helps if we're helping
each other that helps each other. And so anytime, and now I'm at a point with wrestling specifically
where that was always like my biggest, my biggest passion. Like music is great. And I love
playing music. Like literally I had a gig yesterday where I played at an old folks home,
like a legitimate old folks home just went out there and played you know elvis or whatever i
was playing for that's the place i need to end up live shows let's do like certainly not you know
all these ads are these newfangled music coming in here playing that crap listen the funniest thing in the world is me asking a bunch of 85 year olds like hey guys what do you want to hear you know and having them you know yeah it an all unit so some of them don remember
their names let alone but music is one of those weird things where even people that have like
all-time or sure where they're like is music is like like i deal i do this with like special
Olympics were like, uh, like, like very like, uh, like, you know, like, uh, like learning
disabled people, nonverbal people that don't talk, we'll sing, you know, like I, I got,
I got a chance to like to, to teach, uh, like a life skills music class for like kids that
are like severely like developmentally disabled.
And we would do, uh, you know, boom clackers and like stuff like that, like where like the
music it was something that they would it would resonate with them where they were more like
communicative and and whatever uh with what was happening there and i don't uh like back to laura
lee is as as my answer because again i know we're awesome we're way we're rambling on like but laura
lee was like one of the people that taught me like you know do that if you have the opportunity
to kind of help to give somebody else a hand on the way up.
And I learned this in wrestling too,
because a lot of the people that I worked with in wrestling
when I broke in in the late 90s
were guys that were like big stars in the 80s
that were still a little past their prime,
maybe a little banged up,
but they were still out there working like smaller shows
and independent shows.
So, you know, they were back on the way down maybe career-wise.
So I had an opportunity to sort of like learn from those guys
who had been, you know, kind of working on top.
And then somebody like Laura Lee who is, in my opinion,
still the greatest like cover band, like front man performer
that I've ever met.
But she taught me that.
Like she was nice enough to jump up on stage on one of my shows and sort of in the wrestling business, we call it giving the rub.
Like, oh, let's we're going to give the kid the rub, you know, like where it's like, you know, like Hulk Hogan's going to wrestle the the up and comer.
You know what I mean? Like even if the up and comer doesn't beat Hulk Hogan, just that just him being in the ring.
Yeah, in the same ring with that guy elevates, you know, the other guy.
And she taught me that.
And that's something that I've not only obviously learned in music,
but I've tried to translate that mindset across everything I do.
And for somebody who does as many different things as I do,
the modern day Renaissance man that I am, the last of the old school, if you will.
you'll appreciate that havoc that's literally my wrestling
gimmick is I am the last
of the old school spiffy Sean
styles and it's because
I'm the last of that generation
that came into the business that way
that is still around because most
of those guys are retiring
and all that stuff so
uh
Laura Lee uh which is somebody that
uh nobody would know but
uh please look her up uh and her
band uh if you are
around uh the
east coast of the northeast of America or traveling to Key West and happen to be there
at a week that her and her band are there. I can't recommend them enough. And thank you guys
for supporting just the arts in general. And thank you guys for going down all of these rabbit holes
with me for twice as long as you thought we were going to go. Remember when you guys were like,
well, we typically do like a 35, 45 minute podcast. We're buttoning it up here about,
you know 45 or so remember that we do 45 to 90 is typically where we are so this isn't that
this isn't that far over but it is so hard to this i mean we could do this like where you can
lure like and tune in next week for the exciting conclusion of this guy rambling on about 85
different things it's a wonderful thing so i'm still mad we didn't talk about the academy i want
to yell so bad about it. We can, we can certainly do that. So last piece, what do you got going on?
Where can people find you? Um, well you, uh, you were nice enough to bring up my only fans,
early in the podcast or havoc. Thank you for that. And thank you for thinking I have nice feet.
I do. Uh, I do appreciate that. Uh, I do have a lot of student loans. So thank you for that support.
the link is going to just all my links.com is just going to be my name.
Spiffy Sean styles.
You can type that in pretty much anywhere on the internet.
Spiffy Sean styles.com.
The band is called walk of shame.
We do a great rock band karaoke thing that sort of morphed out of what I
guess then would have been like our COVID shows because we were all locked up
and trying to figure out a way to still connect.
And then me as the introverted, extroverted person that I am
was losing my mind, not having that sort of dopamine,
that kind of fixed for me,
like where as much as I want to be antisocial,
also I have this inherent sort of desire
to be a people pleaser.
So trying to resolve that duality
is sort of the journey that I've been on.
for most of my adult life.
But like COVID was one of the things
where I learned how to do like a good live stream
and make the audio sound good.
And I did all of that because,
you know, I was watching nine-year-olds play Minecraft
and they were better at streaming than I was.
I figured there's, you know,
you can learn a couple of things.
But like, so a lot of what we do is born from that
where people were able to just on the fly,
like request songs and like, you know, Hey, here's, here's our Venmo shoot us 20 bucks. And
Oh my God. Hey, Sheila from blah, blah, blah. Wants to hear, you know, whatever a Pearl Jam
song. Here you go. And, and then have that sort of in real time, uh, kind of thing. So, uh, I do
have, uh, all the socials, uh, find me everywhere, please. Uh, I do a wrestling podcast that we just
started. So again, I am brand spanking new at this, but I don't know if you guys picked up on
this, but I like to talk. My grandma used to tell me when I was a kid that you talk just to hear
your own voice. And it turns out my grandmother was right as always. I do.
Nothing wrong with being able to talk.
Every once in a while I stumble into and entertain anything like this. And I meet guys like you that
have an amazing sort of foundation for me to come in like the wrecking ball that I am to try to
disrupt. So thank you guys for that. And you're seriously, I wish more podcast experiences were
this comfortable, organic. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, like you said, you asked one question
at the end and we talked for nearly two hours
and legitimately there are things
that we didn't talk about
that we could absolutely spend another two hours talking
and that I believe guys is a testament
to what a great show you have
and thank you so much for letting me have the opportunity
to come here and ramble on for a little while.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
We really appreciate it.
All right, everybody.
You know where to find us.
Thank you for giving us some of your time.
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Thanks, everybody.
Thank you.