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Today, I'm sitting down with Andy Schoonover, founder and CEO of CrowdHealth, the community-powered, revolutionary alternative to insurance that's crowdfunding healthcare for thousands with zero-member bankruptcies and growing Bitcoin circularity built right in.
We dive deep into why the health insurance industry is broken at its core, how real medical
freedom actually works, and Andy's bold vision for a fully Bitcoin-powered healthcare system
where your dollars never touch the fiat machine.
This is raw truth on sovereignty, community, and reclaiming the power that was always yours.
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And now, let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with my friend Andy Schoonover.
What is real?
How do you define real?
You can't jump into cash.
Cash is trash.
What do you do? You get out.
Andy, welcome back to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast. How are you?
Thanks. There's no Bitcoin references in there. I'm a passionate advocate of Bitcoin, too. So, you know, just try to take down the health care system and the financial system all in all in one shot.
Yeah, I see them as parallel verticals and they work hand in hand.
Something I've really thought deeply about is the motto with CrowdHealth, and we'll get into it, is really taking your health care back, sovereignty of your health care and changing the incentives, I think, of the entire ecosystem.
But that's, you know, that doesn't really break it down.
It is definitely Bitcoin inspired. There's no doubt about that. Decentralize, put it back in the hands of the people. Don't have any centralized authority telling you what you can and can't do with your health care. I mean, I think ultimately that should it be. So there's so many analogies between what Bitcoin is doing with the fiat system and what CrowdHealth is doing, what we're going to call the fiat health insurance system, because I think in many ways it's very fiat.
Yeah, well, it limits and it reduces your fiat expenses so you can save more money to put into Bitcoin.
That's right.
And so that's kind of one way I see them as working hand in hand.
And it's sort of taking it helps you then self-fund and crowdfund.
So we'll get into this.
But, you know, health care seems to be one of the hottest topics right now.
So my at Thanksgiving dinner, I found out one of my family members, their health care insurance through a government job is going about up about eight hundred dollars per month on top of what they were already paying for coinsurance with their employer, the government employer.
And that that just kind of threw me back. And so, you know, what is going on right now with sort of this big shift right now in health care?
Yeah, I mean, I think that people are kind of have this general sense of health care is really, really complex.
And if you get down to kind of first principles of what's going on here, it's that we don't have any market.
There's no market forces in health care.
So you kind of think about the buyer of health care, which is these big health insurance companies.
They actually want the price to go up.
And people don't really understand that because of government regulation.
And so the way that this works is if your premium is $1,000, the health insurance plan can only make $150, 15%.
And so how do you get your profit to go from $150 to up 10% to $165?
Well, your premiums have to go up.
And so they actually want prices to go up over time.
So that's the buyer of health care.
The seller of health care are these big hospital systems.
They clearly want the price to go up.
And so, you know, basic economics tells you if the buyer and the seller of a product or service want the price to go up, guess what?
The price is going to go up.
And so, you know, they have the government basically saying, hey, prices can't go up too much.
And so these prices go up 5% or 6% or 7% enough to get away with it.
And the hospital's happy.
The insurance company's happy.
And there's no market forces driving these prices down.
And so that's the problem that we have.
So we've ultimately gotten to this place that these prices have been masked over the last 15 years by subsidies and then enhanced subsidies during COVID.
And then these subsidies are going away and people are like, holy crap, like health care is really expensive.
I was like, yeah, it's always been really expensive because you're just not seeing it.
We're paying it as taxpayers. And so nobody's really seeing the real prices of this stuff.
And so that's ultimately what we've come to, you know, at the present day, you know, January of 26 is people are, you know, the rubber's finally hitting the road here, you know, you know, people are seeing that the prices of healthcare is really, really crazy when you buy it through insurance.
And we can talk about why when you buy it, you did buy it without insurance, it's way less expensive.
But, you know, ultimately that's what we're trying to do is enable people to pay for it directly without having health insurance to get away, to introduce market forces into the system.
Sure. Yeah. I mean, during that dinner, I found another person, someone who's elderly in the family there. I think Medicare was going up from 300 a month to 375. They were actually considering maybe getting rid of it because it's one of the most, their most expensive bills that they have in retirement.
Yeah. Other than your mortgage, and a lot of times it's more than your mortgage, it's the biggest line item in your budget. I mean, I was blown away. I got a message on LinkedIn, I don't know, last week, I think it was, from this guy in San Francisco who's reaching out to us.
And he was like, dude, I've got three kids.
It's me, my wife, and three kids.
We're all healthy.
And I'm paying $6,000 a month for health insurance.
This is the worst that I had heard.
I mean, I saw one in Atlanta that was $5,000, but $6,000 a month, $72,000.
And I think they had like a $10,000 deductible or something like that.
I mean, it's like absolutely bonkers that you have to pay, you know, basically the average salary of the United States in health insurance costs.
I mean, it's getting really crazy.
Yeah, it's weird.
It really perverts the system because I find that people want to go to the doctor now because they want to get an ROI on the investment that they're putting into this subscription every year.
So it's like I'm already down bad on the cost.
If I'm sick, I might as well go utilize this.
And I think it kind of like they want they go to the doctor more, not because they're sick more, but they want to get a return on all that money they're spending versus like turning.
You know, when you reduce your expenses, it makes you invest in Bitcoin.
It feels like you're turning your health care allocation into harder money and changing the way you think about the utilization of these services, because it seems like it's more like it's sick care now.
Absolutely. I mean, when you're not paying for something, when you're paying with somebody else's money,
it's easy to spend a lot.
You're paying in these premiums
and then you're basically going to the grocery store
with somebody else's credit card.
And so one, you don't care about prices
and two, you can utilize this,
you might as well go get the wagyu steak
if somebody else is paying for it, right?
And so that's what we're doing with healthcare too
is we're buying our healthcare
with somebody else's credit card.
And so there's no reason to even pay attention
to the prices.
And it's the only place I can think of,
You know, the insurance space is the only place I can think of is where, you know, you don't care about the prices.
And so that's clearly a problem.
Any economics person can tell you if you don't care about the prices, then you're just going to consume more and you're going to consume more at a higher, higher price.
And so that's the problem that we have in health care right now that we're trying to solve.
Yeah, I was a CFO of a reality television company in New York City.
I was a big fan of HSAs, and about 30 people through, you know, 20 employees and their dependents were on our employer-based health plan.
And the plan originated with the partners of the company, and they got Cadillac plans when they picked their plans out.
And you could see the high, and we had to offer every employee the same plan.
Usage was incredibly low, so we're spending incredible gobs of money on health care that's not being utilized.
And I just switched the company to HSA where I could literally fund every employee's plan with the savings.
And they, you know, but it's still I meant a lot of resistance to sort of just change.
But this is when I started thinking more deeply about taking ownership of the spend, how you spend things.
So maybe we can get into how crowd health is different.
Yeah, it was just really quick on that change thing.
You know, it's one of those where, you know, oftentimes, especially when we're in a company, healthcare is owned by the HR group, you know, and HR groups are not known to take risk.
So, you know, back in like the 80s and the early 90s, there's this thing in the tech world that's like, if you buy IBM, you can't get fired.
And in the HR world, I think it's like, as long as you buy Blue Cross Blue Shield or Cigna or Aetna United, you can't get fired.
And so there's just no desire to go outside of the norm and try something differently, even though you can save tens of millions of dollars.
I actually have a buddy who owns a very large company or did own.
He IPO'd the company. He's got tens of thousands of people in his company.
And he's still fully insured, which means that he takes all the risks.
The insurance company takes all the risk.
And typically what happens with the company is once you hit about 500 employees, you start owning all of the cost yourself because it just makes economic sense.
And this guy, no joke, could have saved about $15 million a year by doing this, but he didn't want to because he didn't want the risk of doing that.
And so I'm like, dude, I mean, it's just one of these things where people don't want to try anything different.
It's a lot of reasons why, you know, similarly, these corporations who are sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars of fiat aren't willing to buy Bitcoin because, you know, they're so afraid of anything different that they the status quo is just is just very, you know, is the easy path.
And so when you're running a big software company, you know, you don't want to introduce any risk into the business.
So Bitcoin is definitely out.
Anything kind of alternative to health insurance is out.
They just only want to think about it.
And so this aversion to risk is really creating havoc.
And I think in both the fiat system and the health care system.
Health insurance is broken.
I know it.
You know it.
So an open enrollment rolls around and all those health insurance companies start hoping you'll just resign.
eyes closed, for the same overpriced plan with confusing fine print. It feels like they're
betting on your inaction, but we deserve better than that. That's why I started looking for
something different for me and my family. Something honest. That's when I found CrowdHealth.
With CrowdHealth, it's not about profits. It's about people and community. You get a team that
helps negotiate your bills, access to low-cost prescriptions and lab tests, and a list of doctors
who don't treat you like a number.
And if something major happens, you cover the first $500.
Then the crowd steps in to help share the rest.
It feels real.
It feels like taking care of your health the way it should be.
Simple, direct, and human.
Thousands of members already say CrowdHealth saved them tens of thousands of dollars over
traditional insurance.
And with many subsidy programs ending and costs rising, there's never been a more important
time to take charge of your health care.
So this open enrollment, don't sign because you're told to.
Sign because you choose to.
If you're ready to join a community that looks out for you, give CrowdHealth a try.
Join CrowdHealth to get started today for $99 for your first three months using code MATRIX at joincrowdhealth.com.
CrowdHealth is not insurance.
Opt out. Take your power back.
This is how we win.
Yeah, for sure. I think people are waking up to healthcare being fixed and just not working
for them. And it's definitely sort of like how Bitcoin, we want to separate money from
state. I think we want to separate healthcare from employers.
Absolutely. I mean, this is a relic of World War II. You know, it's again, you know, the
government doing something really stupid that they think is a great idea that ultimately you know comes back and bites them in the ass But you know post War II they put a wage freeze on So you couldn go and get really good talent and pay them more
And so they tried to figure out, like, how else can we get good talent? Well, we'll give them
health insurance. And so health insurance started to be a part of employment. And that's been
codified now over the last 15 or 20 years. And so now we have health insurance as a part of our
employment. And the sad part of that, one now, is that health insurance is skyrocketing because
these employers aren't paying attention. And two, there was a study that came out a couple years ago
that said somewhere between two and four million Americans would go and do something entrepreneurial
if they didn't have to worry about health insurance. But they're so shackled to their
companies because of health insurance that they just stay in this crappy corporate gig and not go
out and do something entrepreneurial, which I think is totally un-American. It stifles innovation.
And so that's, you know, the challenge that we had. And the worst thing about Obamacare, probably
maybe one of the worst things, was this tying, this codifying of that tie between your employment
and your employer-employee. You know, and funny story, CrowdHealth has gotten to a place now where
the rule is that if you have over 50 employees, you have to provide your employees health insurance.
And so we were sitting here in December of last year, so just a month ago, and we had 49 employees.
And so if you have 50 employees at the turn of the year, you have to provide them health insurance.
So I cut off all hiring until 2026 because I don't want to have that regulatory issue.
And so I hired 10 more people in January that I could have hired earlier, but I didn't.
And so it's also stifling the ability to give people jobs because these small businesses don't want to hire people to get over 50 because now you have this huge incremental cost of doing business.
You know, in essence, what they should do is they say, look, you know, give people their salary, bump it up for what health insurance is costing you.
Let those people do it in some kind of tax efficient way.
And then let those people go and buy health insurance, you know, by themselves.
You know, let them choose what's right for their family because the employer is choosing what's right for the basically the lowest common denominator of their employees.
And so it's a really crappy system that we've gotten ourselves into kind of all in the name, like the government always says they do, all in the name of consumer protection.
We want to protect the people. Right. And it's like that funny meme. It's like, I'm the government. I'm here to protect you or, you know, I'm here to save you or whatever.
And so in essence, what they've done is they just created, you know, catastrophic rising
health care costs as a result of these stupid regulations.
Yeah, I remember about 15, 20 years ago, people would start really, you know, not maybe bragging,
but really sort of sharing that like their company, like the job they chose was because
how much more they spent on health care.
The salaries were the same.
It was a richer plan.
And it didn't consider really whether they would need it or use it.
It seemed to psychologically, I think, make people feel like they were eliminating risk in their lives.
But I think what a lot of people are feeling now that they see that the system seems to be breaking rapidly is even on top of the 20, 30, 40,000 premiums already paying.
Now there's the co-pays, the deductibles and things that don't even get claims getting denied, which I think is throwing people for, you know, they're just experiences experiencing this more and more and sharing it on social media.
Yeah, we've seen so many viral videos, right?
Sent over the last couple of months of people who, you know, there's this one guy who's like calling and saying, oh, you know, I want X, Y, and Z.
I think it was an imaging or something.
And they're like, oh, okay, you know, that'll be $500.
And he's like, okay, great.
Well, you know, I'm under my deductible, so I'm just going to pay it in cash.
And she's like, hold on a second.
You have a deductible?
Does that mean you have insurance?
Yeah, I have insurance, but I want to pay in cash.
I'm sorry, sir.
you have insurance. And so we're going to have to charge you now the full insurance rate,
which is like $2,500. It was literally like 5x, you know, if they paid through insurance. And
that's just the total craziness of our system right now. Yeah. So, you know, families are paying
what, like 1000 or 2000 a month up front. How does crowd health work? It's not insurance. So,
you know, let's kind of dispel what that what does that mean? How does it kind of what's the
model. Yeah. I mean, I went to the Affordable Care Act this year, just because I was curious,
you know, what, what would be, I think, I think it was like $1,500 or $1,600 or something like
that. And then it was like a 16 or $18,000 deductible, which basically means I'm paying
30 or $35,000 a year before the insurance company picks up a dime. And, you know, with crowd health,
I'm paying $660 a month. So, you know, say $7,500 a year. And so I'm saving, you know,
gobs of money by doing this. But in essence, what we've tried to do is eliminate all the
perverse incentives of healthcare. And it's really hard to do, obviously. But, you know,
so instead of paying a premium to your health insurance company, and then the health insurance
company, their profit is the difference between the premiums and the claims, right? So all the
money they get in for bills, all the money they pay out for bills, that's their profit.
So what does that do? It incentivizes them to see the premiums increase,
and the bills decrease like to maximize that profit.
And so what we did is like,
hey, let's just do a subscription fee.
You know, you pay us $60 a month
to be a part of the community.
And so we want more people in the community.
We want prices to go down so more people join us.
And so the incentives are totally aligned.
And then on top of that,
we're gonna ask you to pay
and help somebody directly in the community
pay for their healthcare bill.
So for me, if I was an individual,
I'd pay $60 a month to CrowdHealth and then I would pay up to $140 and that goes directly to
Cedric who as I just heard you're a CrowdHealth member which is awesome you know it's going
directly to Cedric to help you pay for your health care bill you have the cash in hand to
pay for that bill and so you're paying the the doctor or the hospital directly as opposed to
them having to bill health insurance and as a result of paying in cash you're getting way better
prices than health insurance companies do. We just gave you the example of the imaging one that went
viral. But what we're finding is if you pay in cash directly, taking out all those middlemen who
are all one piece of the action, you're going to get about a 50% better price than United Healthcare
is paying for the exact same service. Oftentimes, it's the exact same location, same doctor,
same MRI machine, same everything, but you're paying half the price because these doctors,
hospitals, surgery centers, whatever, don't have to go through the craziness of, you know, billing,
you have to you have to pay somebody for billing, you have to wait for your money, you have to fight
with them to get paid. There was a study that came out about a year ago that said that doctors
spent about two days a week, just fighting with health insurance plans to get paid. I mean, I
couldn't imagine like fighting with my employer, CrowdHealth, two days a week to get paid. Well,
I can't actually be productive the other those two days. And so we're giving that time back to
the doctors and therefore they can charge us a lot less as a result of that. So, you know,
ultimately what our system is set up to do is enable you to pay your provider directly as
opposed to them having to go and bill health insurance. So that lowers the price. But the
other cool part of that too is you no longer have an insurance plan or an employer or a government
between you and your doctor. You can now do what is right for your health as opposed to the doctor
having to ask permission from a health insurance company or your employer or whoever to actually
provide you care. And so the dynamic totally changes. And I've seen it firsthand where you
go into the doctor and he's like, hey, I'm paying you direct. You don't have to get approvals for
any of this. Like, let's do what's right for me. And he or she is like, awesome. Like, yeah, let's
do this. And I'm going to give you a much better rate for that, too, because I don't have to fight
with them. So it's just an all around better system when you, as we all know, as Bitcoiners,
when you take out all the middlemen, all the rent seekers, and pay directly as opposed to,
you know, all the administrative and bureaucracy associated with those with that that that middle
layer of people who are just trying to take a piece of the action. Yeah, for sure. I,
I felt it right away, even more on the softer side of the community and the social aspect.
So I signed up, I was all excited. I, you know, I left corporate America about a year ago,
I made the gamble to kind of forego on Cobra, you know, to give that nice little loophole where
you could like up to 90 days, mail it back in if you need to. But I was like, I'll save that money.
I'm starting to like, you know, I'm like trying to figure out how to self-insure. And then you
start thinking about maybe I want to mitigate some of this risk. But the idea of joining the
community is what really also brought it to another level. We talked about this in the last
conversation that when you came on the show the first time, but I experienced it firsthand. So I
sign up and I get, you know, a series of six or seven newsletters from you kind of describing how
it's going to go. And for the first time I found myself reading these, I kind of want to be a good
player in the community. And, you know, there's a social score, I think, to it. So you kind of want
to be seen as, you know, a good member in standing. So what are the rules of the road? And you kind of
let me know right away. It'll be brief. So we kind of get through these quickly. But normally from
UnitedHealthcare, whatever company I'm going to delete, delete, I'll figure this out later. Because
even if I know the rules of the road, I'm going to have to argue with someone anyway down the road.
That's how I just feel. And, you know, if I have a question or whatever, things aren't going my way.
So I'm like, wow, these people are going to work with me. They're my team.
So then you get the app and the app seems apropos for the modern age.
I mean, there's just so much more with doctors that you want to do digitally now.
So maybe we'll get into what you could do with the app.
But then I was learning about the program where you sort of join the community and now you pay for other people's expenses when it's above 500.
and I turned it on auto pay.
And I thought I would get emails all day, every day.
It was amazing to me that I didn't get a lot of emails.
I think only one or two in the few months
that I've been a member.
But it made me feel more, wow,
I almost felt like the person's paying.
I know the situation, maybe they broke an elbow
or something along these lines, and I'm helping.
And there's almost a little bit of pride and sort of satisfaction being part of this.
And it's been a wild experience.
So maybe we can't.
It's a little different.
It's invigorating.
I'm taking sovereignty of my health, but I'm not alone.
Yeah.
Well, we've got a community of almost 25,000 people now who, if you have something really big happen,
you know, in essence, what we do, let's just say your bill is $10,000. We ask you to pay the first
500 bucks of any health event. So if you get cancer, and it's 30 doctor visits and 20 imaging
visits and two surgeries, that's all one health event. So you have to pay 500 bucks. Everything
beyond that is sent to the community. So we'll send each community member, generally one request
every month that says, hey, you know, Andy, and we don't say Andy, we say a guy in Texas,
you know, broke his arm, are you willing to help? And then, you know, you can say yes or no manually,
or you can just automate it to say yes all the time, which just sounds like you do. And like
about 90% of our people just automated to say yes, so they don't have to go in there and click.
And then, you know, if you say yes, then that money comes directly to Andy. So then, you know,
I'll ask, well, CrowdHealth will ask 95 people for 100 bucks or something like that. And so
So then Andy has that $9,500 plus my $500 that I'm kicking in.
So then I can go and pay for that directly.
But it's cool because you know exactly how your money is being used by somebody else.
You know, it's not going to UnitedHealthcare, you know, to buy the CEO's private jet.
It's going directly to Cedric or Andy or Marty or Safedine or, you know, all these people, Bitcoiners, like to help them directly.
And so it's pretty cool.
And, you know, look, I get these emails too because I'm obviously a member.
And it's like, I feel good that I'm good to help somebody in North Carolina with cancer, you know, or somebody in Idaho with, you know, whatever, you know, a pregnancy.
It feels kind of cool that I get to help somebody directly and I know exactly where my money is going.
So it's a bit different than, you know, your health insurance, obviously.
And yeah, we don't bombard you with emails.
We just send you one, sometimes two a month, but we max it out at 140, you know, if you're an individual.
If you're a family, it's 420.
But this month, for example, we're only asking for 65 of that 140 or 195 of your 420 if you're a family.
So we only ask for what the community needs.
And so if the community is doing really well, then you benefit.
And we actually have a program with Fold so that if you, you know, as a family, I'm 420.
So I only got asked for 195, which means that I have, you know, 225, you know, left over this month.
Now, we have a program with our Bitcoiners where that can go directly to fold to get converted into Bitcoin. And so you're actually stacking Bitcoin at the same time with all that those excess funds. And so we've got thousands of people in CrowdHealth who are doing that, you know, automatically. And so it's a pretty cool way to stack Bitcoin to one guy was like, yeah, my wife is giving me trouble for all this Bitcoin that I'm stacking. And so I'm going to do this fold program.
So just like, you know, it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind.
And I know I'm stacking Bitcoin, but she doesn't really know that.
And so it like like dude I not getting into your marital issues You do whatever you want to do But we have a ton of Bitcoiners in our community And as you can imagine Bitcoiners are trying to find different ways of doing things
especially when they've been told their entire life, this is the only way of doing it.
And so I think we have thousands of Bitcoiners as a part of the community,
including you and Marty and Jimmy Song and Breedlove and Natalie and Saifedean.
These are all people who are a part of our community.
That's pretty cool that you can help with.
Marty just had a baby.
The crowd helped Marty with his baby expenses,
which is, I think, pretty cool as a community to help other Bitcoiners.
Yeah, you know where your money's going.
We have crowd health babies now, and you're like, wow, I helped with that.
And with insurance, that's part of it.
You are helping a community.
That's sort of the basis of the model and you're pooling risk.
And so there's, it's still the same model, but now it's direct.
You, you, you kind of know where the money's going for it and you know how you're operating
within the system and you know, everyone's aligned.
Let's maybe talk about negotiating forces and what you guys have learned about that and
what you, how you help.
Because I think I was even on insurance and, you know, it was one of those things I woke
up in the middle of the night, my daughter having trouble breathing and she's coughing
and she was like six at the time.
Kind of thought it was whooping cough and it would just be okay.
But you just don't know.
It's 2 o'clock in the morning and you're kind of trying to figure out what to do.
And I see one emergency room is kind of busy.
The other one's like empty.
It's a brand new building out in the middle of nowhere.
And like a new, going to be developed part of town later.
They built the emergency room first.
Standalone.
15 minutes away.
Zoom over there.
You know, it's kind of like going to the dentist with the toothache.
By the time we get there, she's pretty much okay.
But you're there now.
You're like, ah.
You know, so, you know, there's I could literally park first spot.
There's no other cars in the lot.
Go in.
They don't even want to see the paperwork.
Just go right in right away.
You'll fill the paperwork in as we're helping.
It's very calm, very nice, very friendly.
One doctor on call, one nurse.
Both take a look at her.
Yeah, it's what we go off.
It's no big deal.
It's already the cool air helped.
Maybe we got a Tylenol and, you know, you get a bill for five grand and maybe insurance
covered 600 or something very not close you know maybe it was that or maybe i still had seven grand
to go on the deductible this was the five grand that and it's just how did it it's just absurd
uh it's absurd and they probably you know what these hospitals do is they up code and so you
know your your daughter came in uh with the symptoms of having trouble breathing and so they
will probably max out that code like the most critical you know code even though she came in
and she was doing fine. And so then you get charged the kind of the highest rate possible,
as opposed to, you know, what actually happened, which is she took a Tylenol or whatever,
and was and was done. And so these these hospitals get away with it, unfortunately. And it's it's
a tragedy. I mean, it's one of those things where I think it's like 90% of the bills that we get
are coded at the top end of ER. But we also have data that says 80% of the people who go into the
ER don't really need to go to the ER. And so it's like, make that math work for me. Like,
how does that work? You know, and it's these hospitals who are just, you know, bumping up
these rates. And it's like, we can't expect you to know that. Like, there's no way for you to
know what those rate codes are. And so they make it so opaque that you can't really fight it. And
I actually have a funny story where I talked to a woman who was helping these health insurance
plans, take these really complex code and translate them into what people can actually
understand.
And so, you know, these explanation of benefits you get in the mail, they're like gibberish.
Like you have no idea what it is.
And so this company was trying to help these plans making a little more readable.
Well, they did it.
They implemented.
This was a big health plan.
And these people were started calling in being like, hey, this never happened to me.
You know, like that's not right.
Like they were getting, you know, circumcisions for baby girls.
And they're like, what? Like, obviously this isn't right.
And so the insurance plan actually told the company to stop and they reversed it back to being opaque because the health insurance plan that the more information that a consumer of health care has, the more questions they have, the more it shows that these insurance plans and these hospitals are doing some crazy things.
crazy, you know, math behind the scenes. And they didn't want that out in the open. They didn't want
light to shine upon it. And so, you know, it's these games that are happening within our healthcare
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Yeah, I think, you know, it's, yeah, it's absurd. And you feel help helpless. I remember getting
that bill. And I remember fighting with them a few times trying to just delay payment. What do
you guys do to sort of manage and help members with costs? Yeah, well, maybe for like planned
things and non planned things? Yeah, I mean, we take a very kind of aggressive approach on helping
our members negotiate these bills, you know, both before, you know, these procedures happen and
after. So for example, we had a woman in Austin, who tore her ACL. So she went to the ER. And
they're like, Yeah, you tore your ACL, you're gonna have to get it, you're gonna have surgery.
And so they, of course, tried to stick her to the in-hospital system orthopedic surgeon.
And they quoted her, I think it was $24,000 to repair the ACL.
She called us and she's like, I'm so sorry.
I just joined CrowdHealth.
I tore my ACL.
I'm going to give you a $24,000 bill.
And we said, hey, can we, you know, look around?
And we actually have a great doctor in Austin who does a lot of the joints for the University
of Texas Athletic Department.
And he's like, look, you know, if you pay me at the point of care, I'll do it for $12,000.
So the bill got cut in half just by us saying, hey, we have an alternative for you.
It's a really awesome alternative.
It was probably a better surgeon than the one you're going to go to.
And it's way less.
And so we help people navigate that.
And actually, you can go to our app and I, you know, you should do this after this and say, hey, what does, you know, I don't know, colonoscopy or whatever cost in your area?
area and it will pull up all the local places that you can get a colonoscopy in your area.
It'll give you the price. We're going to start adding quality data to it. So the people who
actually went to that person to get a colonoscopy, you'll see from other crowd members how it went,
like, is this a great doctor or is this a crappy doctor? And so you have that data now at your
fingertips so that you can make the right decision on that. So that's kind of a pre-negotiation.
But if you go to the ER, like you did with your, it sounds like your daughter or whoever,
You know, basically what we tell people is, and regardless of whether you're on a crowd health, do not pay the bill at the hospital.
Do not get these care credits.
You know, they'll want to say, hey, you know, your bill is $20,000, but great news.
You can just get this care credit, which basically you're now $20,000 in debt.
And you have to pay this, you know, financing company.
And they're trying to stick this on patients.
Do not do any of that in the hospital.
What I suggest that you do is you wait for the bills. And then if you're a crowd health member, you just take a picture of that bill, you upload it to us, we have a negotiations team, including attorneys, who will then call the hospital on your behalf and negotiate that bill for you.
And we're seeing 60, 70, 80 percent, you know, discounts on these things just by us allowing us to go and negotiate this for you.
We might later in the year open this up to people outside of crowd health right now.
It's just opened up to people in crowd health.
But if you're not in crowd health, you know, you can negotiate these bills down and don't let the hospitals tell you that they that you can't.
And so we're doing pretty aggressive negotiations on the back end to make sure you get a fair price.
Well, that's awesome.
I hate going to the doctor.
I mean, when I need to, I'll go and I respect doctors and I try to vet, you know, I do my own research.
Let's when you want to manage your care, though, and we're trying to own our care more and our outcomes and our results and just monitor it.
So how about lab tests and wellness checks, calls and mental health?
Yeah, I mean, lab tests are another one where, you know, I as a part of crowd health, you get $300 per year that you get to spend on a wellness visit.
And so, you know, your wife goes to the gynecologist every year or your kids go to the pediatrician or you can use it for dental or vision.
I use it for labs, you know, in my labs, you know, depending upon that.
So I go and get labs. I get it twice a year.
But, you know, CrowdHealth pays or the crowd pays for one of those.
I'm seeing like 70 or 80 percent off of lab costs versus billing it through health insurance.
And that's again, you're paying directly.
We're about to actually launch a new website here probably in the next couple of weeks
that actually gives people access to low-cost labs in their area.
So you can go, you can type in your zip code, you can tell us what labs you want,
and then we're going to look at all of the providers of those labs and say,
hey, here's the best place to go and get your labs for the labs that you've asked for.
And so it's kind of like a search engine for labs.
And so we're finding that it's so much less expensive if you go around the insurance company as opposed to paying these labs directly.
And it's 70%, 80%, 90% less.
It's significant.
We're seeing that in imaging as well.
These imaging centers do not go to the hospital to get imaging done.
You'll pay an egregious amount.
There's these imaging centers.
it's the same equipment you know it's just a lot of times it's the same people reading your
your image and these things are 75 or 80 percent less expensive too than doing these in the hospital
especially if you pay directly so we're going to open that up to people too so there's just
there's lots of options to get health care much much much less expensive you know and people think
health care is so expensive because you're paying through your insurance company and they inflate
prices significantly because of the perverse incentives that we talked about previously.
So, you know, we help people find those lower cost providers. And the weird thing with healthcare
is that oftentimes the lower cost providers are actually the better providers. You know,
if you want to go and get the best car in the world and you want to buy a Ferrari,
a Ferrari is going to be a much higher quality than your Hyundai or whatever. In healthcare,
it's almost the flip because a lot of these doctors who will take lower prices are independent
doctors. They're not a part of these big hospital systems and, and they don't, therefore don't have
hospital systems to filter them data or to funnel them data or excuse me, patients that, you know,
they don't have these systems to funnel them patients. So they have to be really good because
people, they have to source their own patients. And if you can source your own patients, it means
you're really good. And so these doctors tend to be really good and way less expensive.
And the other thing too is they're doing knee replacements or whatever all day long.
And so would you prefer to go to a doctor that does two knee replacements a month or would you prefer to go to a doctor who does four knee replacements a day?
And if you do four knee replacements a day, you can do it way cheaper than if you're doing four a month.
So there's just economies of scale for some of these doctors that can do it a lot less expensive and therefore they're way better at it.
So many reasons to get outside to exit the health insurance system.
Yeah, the better doctors, they actually want to practice medicine and health care.
And they don't, you know, you hear that it's like three billers per doctor.
And, you know, so they don't want to spend two days a week coding or working with the billers and managing billers.
Maybe with the app you're building or the website, I think you mentioned, is that for everyone, non-crowd health members as well?
Yeah, we're going to open it up to non-crowd health members to give them access.
Maybe you do huge favors for me there.
Maybe you could, we could rate the labs maybe.
Because I find some of these labs don't have the best performance of, you know, finding
the vein or doing the draw the appropriate way or having more hiccups than other labs.
Maybe, you know, maybe there's that aspect.
Maybe some labs are better than others.
And one thing I really doesn't, I think, get enough education is side effects of procedures
doctors ask you to take.
So they say, you know, this looks like it could be X, Y, Z.
they could even then come back three weeks later they're like look it's definitely not xyz but we
should still do the test and i have family from and friends who might consider taking the test and
it's like that test has side effects you know is that and yeah 100 look i think this is all a
product again of you know governmental intervention because in essence what the doctors have to do now
is they if you go to a primary care doctor i think the latest i saw was like 10 minutes they
10 minutes with you which means that they don get to talk to you about your health you know what you eating they don get to talk to you about how you exercising how you sleeping you know all these lifestyle issues And so therefore they have to address the symptoms
And the easiest way for them to address the symptoms are medications.
And so, it's a pharma-first type of system that we're currently a part of.
And I think that's just, again, a product of, you know, being another fiat system.
And, you know, what we're trying to get our members to do is like, no, no, no, go to some of these other doctors, the independent doctors, integrative, holistic, naturopathic doctors who are actually trying to get to the root cause of what's going on with you.
So you don't have to deal with this the rest of your life.
You know, what is a symptom now is going to chronic disease in 20 years, you know, and so let's figure it out now.
And so given your cash pay, by the way, health insurance companies, they don't pay for any of these doctors.
You know, they don't pay for integrative or naturopathic or holistic doctors.
And so you're stuck into this kind of, you know, pharma first system. And, you know, that's, I think, why, you know, 80, 88% of us are metabolically unhealthy, because nobody's willing to kind of go a little bit deeper and figure out like, what is actually going on with our bodies through our lifestyle choices. So man, there's, I could go on for hours about this, but there's so much wrong with this, this healthcare system that we have. And it's most of it because of, of government intervention, unfortunately.
Yeah, let's definitely try to separate government and employer from health care. What about just I so I don't want to go to the doctor, but if I have to go, I don't want to necessarily drive there, figure out where they are and be on their terms. What about with the app? Can I zoom in to the doctor? How does that work?
Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite parts is as a part of CrowdHealth, you get unlimited virtual primary care and unlimited virtual urgent care. So right now, my primary care doc is through CrowdHealth via this, you know, this app. And, you know, I pay for it up front, but then you can submit it to the community to get you paid for it. And that's not subject to that $500. And so it's just easy for me, because like you, I don't want to go into a doctor's office. Like the last thing I want to do is sit in the lobby of a doctor's office with a bunch of sick people, you know, take off the doctor's office.
off a half a day of work basically to do this. And so I just see my virtual primary care doc over,
you know, a video call and, you know, he or she can do 90% of what they can do in the office and
anything that they can't do in the office. If I have to go get labs or whatever, then I go and
get some labs. I actually have a phlebotomist come to my house or my work and take my blood at my
office or work so I don't have to leave. And it costs me an extra, I think, 65 bucks or something
like that to do it, but it's worth it to me. So I don't have to take the time out of my day to do it.
And so I think most of this healthcare can be done remotely and it can be done through our app.
And it's a really cool, cool way of doing things. I mean, one specific example through the virtual
urgent care is, you know, I got little kids and so they, they get in trouble sometimes. And
my daughter was jumping on her bed and fell off her bed and whacked her head.
And she started talking a little bit weird. And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, of course you
jump to the extreme like you did with your your daughter right you jump to the extreme like oh my
gosh something's going on with her and so i just typed up the virtual urgent care got them i think
within 90 seconds and she was talking to my daughter and then she was telling us because
we're trying to decide like my wife was basically out the door going to the er right and i was like
i don't want to spend five hours in an er and get billed ten thousand dollars and all this kind of
stuff and so the doctor on the urgent care is like look ask her these five questions and it's like
what's your name? What's your birthday? You know, that kind of stuff. And if she can answer those
questions, you're fine. And if she can't answer those questions, then get to an ER. And we're like,
great. So, you know, for the next two hours, every 15 minutes, we asked her these questions,
she could answer them. And she had like a mild concussion. You know, it wasn't a brain bleed or
anything like that. It cost 129 bucks. I submitted that to the community and got paid, that got
funded, as opposed to a $10,000 emergency room visit that would have taken, you know, all night
to deal with. And so I think people just need to realize that there are alternative ways of doing
this that are way easier, way less time consuming, and way less expensive. And so we give all these
tools to people. In essence, what we're trying to do is like, we want to give people the tools
to live uninsured, without insurance. And so those are the tools we provide you in our app,
and they work, you know, really, really well. You can do that on mental health too. So if you need
to talk to somebody about mental health, you can go on our app and talk to a therapist on our app.
And again, unlimited number of times. So, you know, don't go to counseling, come go to use it
through the CrowdHealth app. It's fully fundable by the community. And so we're trying to provide
tools for these folks to kind of live without having health insurance. Yeah. And I think it's
really key to understand. I mean, I know technically this is not health insurance,
but it's really giving the same function of being in a group,
in an association, and pooling risk.
It's re-incentivizing the system or incentivizing it to actually be helpful to you
in terms of your allies want to save you money and directionally are on the same team.
So you're not alone.
You're not alone with UnitedHealthcare, but you might be against them.
What do you do when you went to the ER?
you're probably like, man, now I got to fight with the insurance company to get this paid.
You know, it's like for us, it's like, no, we're going to fight with you to get this paid.
We're on your team as opposed to fighting against you.
Plus, you guys are getting more reps in.
You guys are learning and cataloging all that knowledge and have people who are like on the team or like every day, like, how can I help?
It's like when I go to, I was a professional corporate accounting.
I consulted a Fortune 500 companies and startups and all these things.
But I had an accountant for taxes.
I wasn't well-versed.
And that guy was like so amped to do tax accounting.
Like we just saved 800 bucks.
This is the best day ever.
We could do this all day.
I mean, this was what he loved to do.
And you want to be aligned with people who love what they do and want to help you and not, you know, fake help you and really help the other team.
Well, you made a really good point, which is we're logging this knowledge.
and so we're getting better at it and which you know we're seeing health insurance prices from
25 to 26 go up between 20 and 100 percent I mean depending upon what plan you have
our price for our members from 2024 to 2025 was down 11 percent we started in 2021 and our prices
now in 2026 are lower than they were in 2021 and so you know one the community is growing so that
helps. But two is we're logging all of this data that we have so that, you know, as more bills come
in and more cash prices come in, we're logging that, we're putting it in a database, we're then
giving that data, all members access to that data. So you know, you know, what a great primary care
doc should charge in, you know, South Florida or wherever, you know, in Austin. And so people are
then going to those doctors who are then not going to send you to the really expensive hospital
system doctors, they're going to send you to the best cardiologist in town or whatever.
And so we're just getting better at getting our members to really great docs at fair prices.
And as such, our prices are going down over time.
You know, I kind of joke, and I think Bitcoiners get this, is I think healthcare should be
deflationary, not inflationary.
All the other services that we get, you know, you probably have seen that, and you may have
even posted it, there's this graph that shows the cost of goods over the last 20 years,
inflation. And, you know, everything that the government touches is like wickedly high. It's
like two, three, four X inflation. And that's, you know, medical services, hospital services,
education, you know, where everything that the government doesn't touch, electronics,
you know, all these kinds of things are going down. Everything that the government does touch
are going up. And healthcare are the top two things. I think it's hospital. They broke it down
because like medical services and hospital services. I don't know the difference between
the two, but those were the highest increasing things. So, you know, I think healthcare should
be deflationary. I think we're well on our way to get there. So I guess with the primary care
and the urgent care, do I have to sign up for that before and get started? Or is that something you
just access as needed? I'm assuming you have to like figure out who your primary care doctor is
and then book an appointment. So I probably have to go back on the app and kind of work on that.
What about mental health?
Yeah, I mean, this unlimited amount of kind of mental health therapy, talk therapy is available.
And then we also have kind of inpatient mental health.
So if something goes totally awry with, you know, with your mental health, then that's also eligible.
You know, we aren't getting into like the SSRIs and things like that, because I think there's so much craziness out there that,
And candidly, the crowd doesn't particularly want to pay for, you know, SSRI medications and things like that.
So if, you know, if you do have a mental health condition and you are taking some of those medications, we may not be the right, you know, right avenue for you.
Although we can probably help you get those medications at significantly less than what you're currently paying through your health insurance plan.
So that's the other thing is, you know, we had a member who had cancer.
I think she had like non-Hodgkin's lymphoma or something.
I might be wrong, but her medication was going to be $40,000.
a month. And we went directly to the pharmaceutical company, negotiated with them and got it for $2,500
a month. And so, you know, there's a way to get these meds for significantly less too,
that we've gotten way better at over the last few years. And so, you know, our members are getting
meds way less than health insurance plans are getting those meds for. I mean, people, I think,
just have to start running the numbers. I think about my family member whose healthcare went up
$800 per month and he can ensure his whole family with three kids for less and not ensure
he can join crowd health and pay less than that, but 10% less than that per month and
take ownership of, of their health, take ownership of, of, of their savings.
And I think there's the opportunity to bring this to your employers and say, can we make
a deal here?
You know, if you're, if you're paying 30 to 50, 60, 70,000 per year on my behalf, maybe
we can both save money.
Well, the average family on our employer is about $26,000.
a year crowd health is max seven i only paid six last year because the crowd was doing so well so
there's a fourteen thousand dollar delta there that we've had a lot of members go back and be
like look why don't you give me six or seven thousand dollars more salary i can then use
that to go and buy crowd health and and you guys are benefiting because you're not paying that extra
fourteen thousand dollars for my my health care it's a win-win scenario and a lot of small companies
will do this. I mean, if you go to General Electric or something like that, they probably
won't do it because they're so risk averse. But with some of these small companies, they're like,
yeah, I'll take that deal. And so we've had a lot of members go and do that.
I think that's very intriguing to small business owners. Just do the math that you get to take the
14K, if that's the numbers you're working with, and invest in or save in Bitcoin. Or pay for a
sweet 16 or, you know, a family trip, whatever it might be, but or just start stacking for,
you know, uncertainties.
And if you need the money, it's there for you.
And if you start saving in Bitcoin, it starts to multiply over long periods of time.
Not financial advice.
Well, maybe talking about, you know, finding the right crowd for you.
You know, part of this is people are self-selecting in.
You get the power and the strength and the numbers.
You guys are, you know, growing leaps and bounds.
People are into this and you're taking, you know, you're joining other like-minded folks.
But maybe there's, you know, some people that it's not right for right now.
I don't think you accept smokers and sort of obesity, I think, is an issue.
Yeah.
And, you know, I definitely want to be careful with these issues.
What it may be the long-term thinking about this.
And I'll just play devil's advocate.
You know, some people say that nicotine and, you know, obviously rolled cigarettes and how they're rolled and what's in them could be carcinogens besides the nicotine.
But some people say nicotine could be a super drug or beneficial to people's health.
And, you know, maybe people who are overweight or obese, they want to get healthy.
And well, there you go.
So, you know, maybe we can out like I guess you can chew it and not, you know, it's more the tobacco than it is.
the the nicotine so you know i think the thing issue with smokers is you know we we ultimately
what we don't want is for other people to have to pay for your bad lifestyle habits you know and i
just don't think it's fair so if you're a smoker like clearly you have a significant increase in
cardiovascular disease a significant increase in you know lung cancer and other cancers as well and
it's i just don't want people to have i don't i don't want to pay for that you know for somebody
else who does that. And I don't think our crowd does either. And so we could do something where
we could say, hey, you know, look, you can join, but these things aren't eligible. But then I also
don't want people to like join and then get lung cancer, which is a million dollar deal, and then
not have, you know, some kind of help with that, because they don't have health insurance, crowd
health won't be. And so they end up in bankruptcy because of this, like, that's not what I want,
either. You know, when I was starting the company, I was doing some research on this
and somewhere between 200 and 250,000 families go bankrupt every year due to a medical event,
even though they have health insurance. So they have health insurance and they're still
going bankrupt. And I was like, man, my goal is zero people in CrowdHealth go bankrupt
due to a medical event. And so far, we're almost five years in zero.
Zero people have gone bankrupt due to a medical event, and I want to keep it that way.
So, I mean, I could make all these rules and things to allow it some other way.
Ultimately, you're just trying to get cute with it.
And so I prefer to be very explicit in our rules up front so that people don't get surprised along the way.
You know, the other thing is 65 and older, we can't do for Medicare reasons.
There's some regulatory reasons there, so we can't do 65 and over.
We're working on some of these things.
But, you know, ultimately, yeah, I mean, we have a self-selecting group in.
We've got a bit of a younger group in. I think younger people are a little less risk averse than the older folks. We got a lot of single people because single people are less risk averse than people who have families for obvious reasons.
But I would say that we're getting way more families now than single people because we've shown that we can get these bills paid.
And so, yeah, we've got a group of people that self-select in and there tend to be pretty healthy folks.
And so do you want to be in a group of people funding each other's health care expenses that are healthy or unhealthy?
You know, we prefer the healthy ones.
With that said, I think we're going to expand this year a little bit.
We're probably going to announce a diabetes program in the next probably month or two.
You know, 25 cents of every dollar is going to people with diabetes.
And, you know, I think most of us, especially in the Bitcoin community, know that if you have type 2 diabetes, which is a lifestyle issue, that can be reversed.
And I think the medical industrial complex is telling people once you have diabetes, you'll always have diabetes.
And I think that, you know, ultimately what we're going to do is say, hey, if you have diabetes, type 2 diabetes, you can join the crowd.
You're going to pay a little bit more.
You've got to be a part of a program to eliminate your diabetes.
And once you do that, then you can kind of come back down to the general crowd health rate.
But what we want to do is, you know, invite more people into the community, show them the way to get healthy.
And I think that's a way that we can have a significant positive impact on our on our health care system.
I mean, diabetes has gone from one percent of the population in the 1970s to 10 percent of the population in the 2020s.
And that's primarily type two diabetes and it's all lifestyle related.
So man imagine you know 25 cents of every dollar is going to diabetes and you can get know get rid of type two diabetes What impact that would have on on our system And it pretty pretty significant What about AI How do you see that Has that impacted your business And maybe how do you see it impacting health care
Yeah, we use some AI to help us with some of our doctor recommendations.
You know, so right now you can go into your app and you can say, hey, find me a really great place in Austin, Texas.
And we have some, you know, AI that kind of scours our, you know, our databases and all of our information and things like that and can get you, you know, a really great doctor based upon, you know, your lifestyle choices.
And, you know, we can tell you if this doctor is amenable to kind of a high protein diet, maybe some doctors aren't and things like that.
So we're utilizing AI in that way.
I mean, I think ultimately, you know, what I want, and I'm not saying crowd health is going this way, but I want is I want to be able to, you know, import all of my medical data, all of my labs, everything.
And then I want AI to basically say, hey, I see everything that you have here.
Here are some things to think about.
I want to import my lifestyle choices and my, you know, workout choices and all that kind of stuff so I can have almost like an AI doctor, you know, help me.
and then I can base that AI on the findings of a specific doctor that I think I really like,
you know, so, you know, there's all these doctors on the internet who are telling you,
you can't have high cholesterol, high cholesterol is bad. So you got to have these statins and all
these kinds of things. And there's other doctors who say, well, you know, I don't really believe
that here's some other things you can do in lifestyle. So I'd like to take all my medical
information and then show it to an AI version of the doctor that I think I'm more in line with
into my worldview so I can get some feedback on that. And that's ultimately what I want. Now,
you know, can CrowdHealth do that? I'm not sure. But I think, you know, directionally,
that's where we'd like to go is to, you know, enable you to have your own doctor, you know,
based upon your own information, as opposed to, you know, a random doctor down the street that
you have no idea what their kind of education is, their worldview is. And look, I think lifestyle
choices is 90 of the game And I don think that the normal primary care doctor is paying attention to that stuff And so I want to put all that stuff into an AI doctor that does pay attention to that
stuff and can tell me, you know, what kind of path I should be going down based upon the inputs that
I give it. You know, and some people have privacy data, you know, privacy related issues with that
and things like that. So we can do that in a way that keeps this data totally private and it's just
yours, I think that could be a really interesting scenario. You know, I think that's what prior care
doctors should be doing and are not doing. And therefore, I think much of primary care could be
replaced with an AI version of a primary care doc that could be helpful. Well, Andy, I just want to
say, you know, we're really thankful for you. I don't know if you know we're thankful. My family,
I'm sure other crowd health members, you know, you're helping us take our power back and our
sovereignty back over our health, something which I've been trying to do for 20 years. And,
you know, it's great to have an ally like you on the journey. I'll leave it to you. Maybe you could
tell us what the vision is for 2026 for CrowdHealth and where people can go and sign up.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if this is 2026, but it's what gets me most excited. You know,
I'm a Bitcoiner at heart. I'm kind of doing this healthcare thing because I feel like the higher
power is calling me to do it. You know, and ultimately I want, you know, I'm a big fan of
Bitcoin circularity, because I think that's ultimately the only way in which our country
is going to survive, candidly. And I think that I'm trying to create volume so that I can go and
talk to these big hospital systems and say, hey, you need to accept Bitcoin. And then instead of
me and Cedric funding each other with fiat, I want to fund Cedric with Bitcoin. And then you can use
that Bitcoin to then go and pay the hospital. And so we truly get Bitcoin circularity within
healthcare. I'm actually talking to one of the top 10 largest hospital systems right now
in depth about accepting Bitcoin. And so that's ultimately my goal is I'd love to be able to have,
you know, a host of doctors and hospital systems that will accept Bitcoin. I want our members to
start paying each other Bitcoin. We've already got the foundation lined up. It already works.
The system works We built it on lightning And so it works I just got to get the volume of Bitcoiners to then drive demand towards some of these hospitals and providers to say hey accept Bitcoin
Because the bigger group I have, the bigger crowd I have, the more power I have to go to these hospitals and say, accept Bitcoin.
So, you know, my ultimate vision is, you know, I'd love to have Bitcoin circularity within health care.
And given that is a huge line item on our budget, if we can replace that line item by, you know, that fiat line item right now and turn it to a Bitcoin line item, I'm not asking you to take your stack and pay that.
I'm asking you to use less fiat, more Bitcoin in our exchanges.
And I think we can do that in health care.
And so that's my ultimate vision.
That's what I'd love to do is just a Bitcoiner at heart to see that happen.
So I need more and more Bitcoiners to join the community so that we can make that happen.
I love that.
I mean, we have Bitcoin families.
We should have Bitcoin doctors, providers, Bitcoin hospitals, Bitcoin dentists, Bitcoin
doulas and midwives, I think would be wonderfully received.
Amen.
This has been so dope.
Use the code matrix and, you know, for you get three months at $99 per month and you
could join the community now and get started.
Yeah.
Join crowdhealth.com.
And if you aren't following us on X or Instagram or, you know, whatever your favorite social
media platform is. It's all at join crowd health at our handles. So we'd love for you to join us
there too. So, you know, man, thanks. Thanks for all your support. Thanks for joining the community
and, you know, fired up about getting more Bitcoiners involved.
Yeah. Thank you so much, Andy. And thank you for supporting the show. Talk to you soon.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Bitcoin Matrix. If you enjoyed the conversation,
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