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Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman.

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The Bitcoin Matrix podcast is a self-supported podcast. So please consider supporting us

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directly via PayPal, Venmo, Bitcoin on Strike, check, money order, or subscribing to the Bitcoin

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Matrix podcast on the Fountain app to get early ad free access to every new episode.

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Please check for links in the show notes. A couple of weeks ago, I spoke with Keone

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Rodriguez from Samurai Wallet, who is now in a federal penitentiary in Morgantown, West Virginia,

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for writing privacy software on Bitcoin. Last week, Keone came on the Bitcoin Center,

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the show I live streamed with co-host Paul Tarantino every Tuesday night at 8 p.m. for his

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final media appearance before he reported to prison. Check that out if you haven't already

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done so. Sign the petition, donate to the fight, and let's right this wrong by getting Bill and

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Keone out of jail. Not only did I just officially partner with CrowdHealth, but I also signed my

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family up as members. With CrowdHealth, it's not about profits. It's about people. You get a team

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that helps negotiate your bills, access to low-cost prescriptions and lab tests, and a list of doctors

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who don't treat you like a number. And if something major happens, you cover the first $500.

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Then the crowd steps in to help share the rest. It feels real. It feels like taking care of your

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health the way it should be. Simple, direct, and human. Thousands of members already say CrowdHealth

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saved them tens of thousands of dollars over traditional health insurance. And with many

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subsidy programs ending and costs rising, there's never been a more important time to take charge

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of your health care. So this open enrollment. Don't sign because you're told to. Sign because you choose

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to. Because it makes sense. If you're ready to join a community that looks out for you, give CrowdHealth

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a try. This open enrollment, take your power back. Join CrowdHealth to get started today for $99 for

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your first three months using code MATRIX at joincrowdhealth.com. CrowdHealth is not insurance.

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Opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. Joincrowdhealth.com using code MATRIX.

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A few months ago, I officially partnered with MicroSeed because this is the best damn seed

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storage hardware I have seen in eight plus years of being in the space. They supply titanium,

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stainless steel, and nylon washers. Imagine storing your seed phrase on nylon short-term

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to get through body scanners, x-rays, and metal detectors. Imagine stamping the words so small

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they are nearly invisible to the human eye. Micro seed engraves your entire Bitcoin seed phrase on a

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fireproof, waterproof steel or titanium washer the size of a dime. Discreet, resilient seed

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security made simple. Use the code matrix for a discount at microc.io. In this episode, I sit down

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with Jeff Booth, entrepreneur, author of The Price of Tomorrow, and one of the clearest thinkers on

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how technology, money, and human agency collide. We explore why Bitcoin is not just an asset but

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a protocol, how broken money distorts society, and why deflation is the natural state of free markets.

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We also dig into AI, privacy, self-custody, family, time, and what a Bitcoin standard could mean for human consciousness itself.

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If you're trying to understand Bitcoin beyond price, grapple with the implications of artificial intelligence, or make sense of the confusing moment we're living through, this conversation is for you.

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If you want to get in touch with me or buy some dope Bitcoin Matrix merch like mugs or t-shirts, head over to thebitcoinmatrix.com.

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Also, please consider supporting the show directly by subscribing to The Bitcoin Matrix on the found app.

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Please subscribe, like, and share The Bitcoin Matrix podcast wherever you listen or view it.

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And now, let's enter The Bitcoin Matrix with good friend of the show, visionary technologist, and best-selling author, the indelible Jeff Booth.

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What is real?

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How do you define real?

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You can't jump into cash.

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Cash is trash.

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What do you do? You get out.

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Jeff, welcome back to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast for the fourth time.

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How are you?

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Great, great to see you again, my friend.

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Yeah, no, it's great to reconnect.

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I think we spoke earlier in the year about the greatest game.

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We've talked about your piece, Finding the Signal in a Noisy World.

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Of course, we talked about the price of tomorrow.

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I kind of want to talk about Bitcoin, time and family and sort of the effects of these

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things or, you know, how they impact society, culture and economics.

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But, you know, when I think about telling friends and family about Bitcoin, one of the

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things I struggle with is sort of to get across what Bitcoin can do for someone beyond sort

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of number go up or watching your assets go up in value or just strictly financial independence.

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What sort of role do you see?

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you know, how do you see money sort of in people's lives or how Bitcoin might improve their lives

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from their very first sats? Yeah, and that's a big question, and obviously a big question,

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because it's connected to everything. It's literally connected to everything. And what you

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learn through the course of Bitcoin as you go down the rabbit hole is you realize that everything

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you thought about money, and if money was connected to everything, everything you thought about

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freedom, everything you thought about laws, everything you thought about free markets,

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everything you thought about political systems, everything was a lie. Not necessarily a lie in

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people, everyone was trying to conspire against you. A lie that you had a belief in a system

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that was on a foundation that was a complete lie. And that meant everything resulting from that

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foundation was also a lie. And, and that's a really hard thing to take for somebody because

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it means their objective or perspective reality is shattered as they form a new objective reality.

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And we don't want to face that we could have been fooled. We don't want to face that, that

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our time and energy hurt somebody else. It's really easy just to believe the narrative that

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the prevailing narrative of the lie, it's way easier to believe the prevailing narrative of the

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lie than you have agency. It's way easier to believe it's somebody else's fault for your pain

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than you have agency. And so that, now I know we just started kind of midway through that concept

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in your question. I wanted to start there because it's so big. It's such a big deal.

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And price, especially price of Bitcoin in a piece of paper is part of living the same line.

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It's so much bigger than that. So I always try to start in the same place to try to pull this out.

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I try to start in the natural state of the free market is deflation.

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That is an absolute truth.

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Everybody knows that it's true.

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And in that world, because how do we create value for others?

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We have to create more value than what came before.

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And then we only use the things that give us more value.

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So if we're both the creator of the more value and the consumer of the more value,

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and anything with less value fails, how could prices go up?

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And specifically how if you were creating more and more value,

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if we stood on top of shoulders of all people who ever went before us

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that made mistakes and we were creating technology

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that was moving really fast with the same ideas

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and using all the knowledge base of the entire world

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to create technology that would be smarter than us,

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that would remove our labor,

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and then we would use the companies that removed more labor because they gave us more value.

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How could that possibly not drive exponential deflation if we were a part of those choices?

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Then you have to ask, where does inflation come from? And it comes from this lie. It comes from

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a complete nonsense. It's not the free market. It means we've never lived in a free market.

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We have no reference point of what the free market could do. And those systems are complete

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opposites. A debt-based system, which we've always lived in, must create more debt and can't allow

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deflation because the debt-based system would collapse if we allowed deflation. And at the same

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time, the natural state of the free market is deflation. So a derivative of what I just said

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is we've never lived in a global free market. Never. So we have no reference point. We've lived

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in local free markets, the founding of the U.S., individual rights and freedoms, with people moving

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from all over all countries to take advantage of their ideas, which created the wealthiest nation

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ever, was a local free market. And that's what drove the productivity of the U.S. until it was

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captured by central banking and slowly eaten away at. And as that slowly gets eaten away at,

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You can see the same constitution that created the U.S. and individual rights and freedoms come under attack.

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You can see laws changing to support Patriot Act and all of the state and all of the nonsense and everything else that essentially uses fear as a weapon to control you and tries to divide.

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you can see all of the symptoms of the same system capturing more and more of that value

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that should naturally flow to you because it has to because the debt-based system that credit must

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expand forever and your part and so anytime you're measuring bitcoin in the piece of paper

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you're still in the system of control when does a person become financially free so i i think that's

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That's again an abstract concept of what they believe is financially free.

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So you could, I think there's a whole bunch of people who believe in this other system,

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which operates as a zero-sum game, that at some number that's on an ever-escalating number,

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that they will be free.

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And they're racing towards that number.

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And as they get to that number, that number goes higher

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because all of the things they need to pay for with that number move higher

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because the money's broken and it moves it higher.

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so that concept is always moving because the ground underneath them is shifting at such a

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rate and they don't know the ground is shifting and the ground wasn't shifting as fast as technology

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wasn't moving as exponentially one way and and debt had to rise exponentially the other way

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so now it's if you ask somebody two years ago what their number was versus this year the number has

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to have grown a lot because they know and they don't know this but the money is losing value so

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fast that they're that they're inside that game game now same thing on on bitcoin that people

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don't understand right if you had an energy-backed protocol that was decentralized and secure and it

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couldn't be broken then what is that number it as more and more people contribute to that system and

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more and prices fall forever relative to that number that instead of needing more and more and

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more in this system forever, you'd need less and less and less in the other system forever.

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They're exact opposites, exact opposites. And then you can derive, you can ask other questions

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from those opposites and say, what would the world look like under both scenarios? And you

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should ask what the world looks like under both of those scenarios. And then you should ask yourself,

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my own time and my own energy, which scenario would I want my time and energy going into?

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What would it look like to me to apply my time to which one of those systems? And from that,

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you can see your own agency in creating the world that you think you're living in.

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What does it mean then to be financially free in a Bitcoin world? Is it when you buy your first set

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and you say, oh, this first sat will be,

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there'll only be one sat per block in 2140,

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I am better off now instantaneously,

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or is it a cheat code that you'll just get there faster?

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So the reason why that question is deeper

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than just that question,

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there's many people who would buy that in an ETF

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and think they own Bitcoin

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when they own a derivative claim on Bitcoin.

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There's many people who are still measuring that sat

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in a piece of paper

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and measuring thinking Bitcoin's going up

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because the paper's going down.

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So what you're actually talking about

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is how deep you understand it, right?

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And then trying to explain how deep you understand it,

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where you are free and you're living in Bitcoin

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and you're spending in Bitcoin

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and you're contributing to Bitcoin

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and you're teaching other people

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and your value is being created

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by helping a whole bunch of people understand this.

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And your depth is way deeper.

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And then you asking a question is when does somebody else get it And we forget and we forget in ourselves that we were once them that we also didn know

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And the first time we bought it, we bought it as a hedge against a system.

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And we were still measuring it in a piece of paper.

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And then as we got deeper and deeper, we realized that, wait, this is a network and it's expanding.

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And we're part of that network.

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and we're going to run a node and we're going to spend in Bitcoin

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and we're going to charge in Bitcoin.

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We're going to be part of an economy that's thriving

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and creating an economy that's thriving while everybody else is over here.

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And so as you go down the rabbit hole, I think that question

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that you can answer, I can answer, what it looks like to me now

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has looked different at different stages down the rabbit hole.

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And that's why I have no, if some, I don't care where somebody is.

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It doesn't matter, right?

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The, taking the steps to be able to understand this, the curiosity to realize this is a system

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that has all of these things that I say I don't like about the world.

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This is a system that seems to be aligned more with my beliefs of what I think the world

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should look like.

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And then I choose.

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Health insurance is broken.

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I know it.

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You know it.

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So when open enrollment rolls around and all those health insurance companies start hoping you'll just re-sign, eyes closed, for the same overpriced plan with confusing fine print, it feels like they're betting on your inaction.

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But we deserve better than that.

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That's why I started looking for something different for me and my family.

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Something honest.

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That's when I found CrowdHealth.

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With CrowdHealth, it's not about profits.

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It's about people and community.

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You get a team that helps negotiate your bills, access to low-cost prescriptions and lab tests.

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and a list of doctors who don't treat you like a number.

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And if something major happens, you cover the first $500.

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Then the crowd steps in to help share the rest.

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It feels real.

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It feels like taking care of your health the way it should be.

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Simple, direct, and human.

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Thousands of members already say CrowdHealth saved them tens of thousands of dollars over traditional insurance.

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And with many subsidy programs ending and costs rising,

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there's never been a more important time to take charge of your health care.

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So this open enrollment, don't sign because you're told to.

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Sign because you choose to.

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If you're ready to join a community that looks out for you, give CrowdHealth a try.

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Join CrowdHealth to get started today for $99 for your first three months using code MATRIX at joincrowdhealth.com.

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CrowdHealth is not insurance.

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Opt out. Take your power back.

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This is how we win.

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How do you convey that to the next generation that it's Bitcoin and not ETFs and that it's not paper

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wealth or it's not how much you have, but how you see or think about the world? So I think everybody

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has their own unique take on what that looks like. And I think it's not one person's take.

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It's a combination of a whole bunch of people's take that gets sharper and sharper and easier to

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explain over time. I'll give you a framework that two different starting points would give you

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drastically different outcomes. If you saw, and Michael Saylor is a friend, right? And I think

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he's been really good for Bitcoin. And I categorically disagree with him on this issue that

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I'm going to say, and how he views the world and how I view the world, right? Through this lens.

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If you thought Bitcoin was an asset and your view it was the best asset of all time and it couldn't be taken, then you'd have to ask, what is an asset?

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An asset has always underlined money because we couldn't trust money.

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We could never store our time in money because money was always broken.

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So we always had to find assets to store our value because money was broken.

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And if you held more assets, you did better than everybody else because money was more broken and they didn't have the asset.

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And if you saw Bitcoin as an asset, then it would make perfect sense to try to control all the Bitcoin, get it all,

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and then leverage on top of that and all of the broken money and then create instruments from that.

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And all you would have done with the entire world structure is create new kings.

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Same zero-sum game that we've always lived in with different rulers.

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But from that system, if it looked like that, Bitcoin would get centralized and it would fail because it would get centralized.

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If you saw now, so one framework, Bitcoin is an asset within a control system.

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A different framework, a different starting point is it's a protocol coming in layers, adding more functionality like the Internet bounded by energy.

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So it's an open, decentralized, secure protocol bounded by energy. That's the first layer.

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layer. The asset that they think is an asset is a protocol and different layers are building to

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provide more functionality like privacy, like communications in Noster and in transfer of

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value in Lightning and ARC and Spark and everything else. And that protocol layer is emerging where

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the protocol is repricing everything and now you can store your money in money. So those two

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scenarios produce radically different opportunities. One, if you're thinking of it as a protocol,

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you're building value in the layers of the protocol and you're building society in a world

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that's never existed where prices constantly fall and we contribute in the first global free market

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to each other through that vehicle.

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If you're pricing in the asset only,

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then you're contributing to the centralization of Bitcoin.

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These things cannot coexist long-term.

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It's impossible for them to coexist long-term.

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Why?

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Because the natural state of the free market is deflation.

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Because the free market, the value that we create for each other

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has to come to us.

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And the other system has to absorb that value into a control system.

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They're incompatible, completely incompatible at time.

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So now the question is, is it a protocol emerging in layers or is it an asset?

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And for a time, it could look like both.

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But over time, we will see it's a protocol.

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And that means a lot of people that are taking risks on somebody else's Bitcoin

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could also get liquidated in time.

249
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What does that mean, taking risks on someone else's Bitcoin?

250
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Because you don't own the Bitcoin in self-custody.

251
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You own a derivative claim on the Bitcoin.

252
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If somebody else owns the Bitcoin, you don't have agency.

253
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You are not protected from somebody else's actions.

254
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And you could have really good actors.

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And Michael Saylor, I think, is a good actor.

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And I think he's a Bitcoin treasury company.

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He's done remarkable.

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and that that will do extraordinary as bitcoin's going up and it'll underperform when bitcoin

259
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sideways are going down because it's the levered bitcoin play and he's done and i think he has safe

260
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margin requirements i think it's safe i think he's done a whole bunch of the right things

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and i don't and i'm actually an investor in my rsp which i had to keep in canada

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So I'm an investor in it, and I don't have anything against that,

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but I categorically disagree with them on asset or protocol.

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Now, everyone is welcome to make their own decisions,

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and in a free market, the cost of your decision,

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if you make the wrong decision, could hurt on protocol or, right?

267
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So which one is it?

268
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But what I see is this emerging in layers, in a protocol, and protocols are winner take all.

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And in that, nothing is going to stop Bitcoin from emerging and everything is going to be priced in Bitcoin, not in pieces of paper.

270
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Yeah. So none of this is financial advice.

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I'm also a financial investor in strategy through my retirement vehicles as well.

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But I want to talk more about sort of the protocol side.

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So the protocol is developing and that sort of makes it sound like it's unstoppable.

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And maybe it is.

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But what would be the barriers to the protocol succeeding at its highest level, where each level is sort of adding synergy and we're getting more and more things we need to become money?

276
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Okay.

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So for Bitcoin, we have to go back before Bitcoin, right?

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And the cypherpunks talking about privacy and the idea of what Bitcoin would become and all of the tries to be able to create Bitcoin that failed.

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Meaning instrumental in Satoshi's work were all the failures.

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The failures, we discard the failures like they didn't matter.

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They were instrumental in creating Bitcoin.

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and then the genius of creating Bitcoin with the entire thing, difficulty algorithm and everything

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else to have something that was decentralized and secure for the first time. But that was a result

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of all these failures. Same thing that happens on each layer on top of it. But when Liquid first

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came out, when Lightning first came out, it seemed like a pet project. It seemed like, okay,

286
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it's not fair. I'm using, I'm using a payment channel. That's not working all the time.

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And, and they harden, they harden and entrepreneurs race in and try their best to,

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to create value. And some work, some don't. And as the ones work and coalesce, you have a new layer.

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Now that layer today consists of lightning or spark, right? Um, uh, liquid, a bunch of others.

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and you have a payment layer that's working all the time,

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Noster on top of that.

292
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You have an identity and communications layer

293
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that's built into this, right?

294
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It's interoperability with the whole thing

295
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also decentralized since you're because it's sitting on top.

296
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You have Fediment and Cashew built within this on top

297
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that now provide privacy that are scaling.

298
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So what does it look like?

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it looks like all of the things that this thing needs to be able to be to provide more value coming

300
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in layers and protect it from all of the threats that would come it looks like that it looks like

301
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the free market expanding to provide value to a whole bunch of people that don't know they need

302
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that value yet that's and and if those people are right and if they've created that value

303
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those pieces of the protocol and technologies that are built into it explode in value because

304
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they've provided value to somebody else and and so it looks like exactly what you would expect it to

305
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look like and why people are mismeasuring this and how why they don't see it is because they're

306
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not living in this ecosystem they're living in the other ecosystem and they have no idea this

307
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ecosystem even exists that you have complete privacy in your communications on top of bitcoin

308
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today if you want it by interacting with it they'd have no idea they exist because they're measuring

309
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something else and through how many millions of coins that are trying to tell them that you can't

310
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exist that can't exist on on bitcoin so that would be a confusing time that'd be a really confusing

311
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time and from both systems it would appear and people would believe in their own belief system

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from their system, that they were in the right paradigm. It'd be chaotic. It would be exactly

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what you would expect to see if you had a monetary transition like this, that was the transition one

314
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that we'd never seen and we had no mental model for. At the same time you had exponential technology

315
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that should be driving prices down and wasn't because you had exponential theft, taking money

316
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or coercion or whatever you wanted to call centralization.

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And we were looking at all our media.

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If we were looking through that lens from that system,

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you would expect this to be a confusing time for a lot of people,

320
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like a really confusing time.

321
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And then you'd have to ask,

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which system are you giving your energy to?

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But you wouldn't know.

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If I zoom out and I say, Cedric,

325
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what would I expect it to look like?

326
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if my thesis was correct, if Bitcoin was a protocol that was decentralized and secure

327
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and coming in layers, what would my thesis, what would I expect to see?

328
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I'd expect to see exactly what I'm seeing.

329
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Nothing different.

330
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And Bitcoin would have to withstand every one of these attacks,

331
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every possible one and more to be able to withstand,

332
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to be decentralized and secure a protocol.

333
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And then you ask a deeper question, a fundamental question, is who am I scared of?

334
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Because every time you worried about one of these attacks what you really saying is I don have agency in the world I create Somebody else does Somebody else is more powerful than me

335
00:27:52,292 --> 00:27:56,572
Well, that's interesting. Agency and someone more powerful than me. So if there are,

336
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let's say, nefarious or unwittingly bad actors who want to capture or control or centralize

337
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Bitcoin, could they do so in a way that was more than permanent? Could they sort of thwart

338
00:28:09,492 --> 00:28:14,192
the potential impacts of that Bitcoin could have on humanity for forever?

339
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So I don't think so.

340
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But I don't think so because now, again, my view is I have agency in the world I live in.

341
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It's a mirror.

342
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And from that view, I can lead and I can touch other people who then also determine if they

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have agency or not.

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If you've heard me say probably on your podcast before, too, there is no they only we.

345
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We are all connected.

346
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We're all completely connected.

347
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So if we believe there is they and those people, then it is true for us.

348
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And we remove our ability to to contribute, to make a difference.

349
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And so so that agency, it's a way bigger deal than than than it seems like at first blush.

350
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It's a name a threat model to Bitcoin that doesn't go through what I just said.

351
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So when somebody says quantum, what are they saying?

352
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Those people.

353
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When somebody says, what's the government going to do?

354
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Those people.

355
00:29:20,072 --> 00:29:22,072
When they say, what's China going to do?

356
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Those people.

357
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All of these things come down to those imaginary people that are more capable than you.

358
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and every single one of them because you haven't done the work to understand how you matter and you

359
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contribute to the world that you see and when you do that work and you're actually

360
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inside that work and actually influencing the world you want to see it starts to appear and

361
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you start to see other people doing that as well and the world looks totally different wow um i'm

362
00:29:53,192 --> 00:29:59,252
gonna have to think about that uh what about privacy though privacy is a major concern and

363
00:29:59,252 --> 00:30:04,692
digital money assets. How does Bitcoin balance privacy with transparency?

364
00:30:04,692 --> 00:30:10,152
Yeah. So Bitcoin on the first layer doesn't. It's an open monetary protocol and it gains its

365
00:30:10,152 --> 00:30:15,732
decentralization and security by having an open monetary protocol. You can't change that at the

366
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first level layer. The second layer, and everything's KYC, if you only had the first layer,

367
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Bitcoin would fail. Not it might fail. It would fail. Because in time, we would be co-opted.

368
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When I said agency, the one thing I neglected to say is, as we're blaming them, those other people,

369
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we're inside a system that we know is based on a lie yelling at other people,

370
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contributing in the money that's stealing from us. And we think there's somebody else to blame

371
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but us. We wouldn't allow that financial system to collapse on its ground. We wouldn't vote for

372
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somebody who told us the truth. So it's not saying anything about them. It's saying something about

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us. And those things are hard to take, right? As you're going through the rabbit hole and you're

374
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realizing it's no one else, it's me, right? How could I blame somebody else when I was making the

375
00:31:13,432 --> 00:31:20,212
same choice until I saw it in me and then just made a different choice? So if you can change,

376
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if you can, I'm speaking to you, Cedric, I'm speaking to me, if I can change and show up

377
00:31:26,552 --> 00:31:33,092
differently, then shouldn't everybody be able to change, right? And so people are stuck in this

378
00:31:33,092 --> 00:31:38,592
other system, and they don't realize that some of their choices are all inside a zero-sum game,

379
00:31:39,272 --> 00:31:45,032
and they're not outrunning it, and they can make the choice.

380
00:31:45,552 --> 00:31:49,192
And so do you think we have enough privacy now, or we're sort of...

381
00:31:49,192 --> 00:32:07,832
Yeah, and I didn't. So four years ago, if you look at FEDI and the FEDMENT protocol, four years ago when we invested in that, it was looking to the future and realizing if you didn't have privacy, then Bitcoin would be co-opted.

382
00:32:07,832 --> 00:32:23,172
And how would it be co-opted? First, rogue governments would put people in jail, right? Just what ends up happening? They would murder people. They would do whatever it took to send a message on privacy that it's dangerous to have privacy.

383
00:32:23,172 --> 00:32:34,512
And you would expect from a central control system that we all have always lived in that was not the free market, but got its power from theft in a centralized control system, and we didn't know we were in it.

384
00:32:34,512 --> 00:32:43,912
you would expect it to constrain the ideas of the people within it so that they believed a certain

385
00:32:43,912 --> 00:32:48,872
narrow thing and if you had AI that you could constrain it more you would expect them to

386
00:32:48,872 --> 00:32:54,032
be inside this information bubble and not know they were information inside this information

387
00:32:54,032 --> 00:32:59,752
bubble and if somebody stepped out and was dangerous because other people could step out

388
00:32:59,752 --> 00:33:06,732
you'd expect that system to attack the people that stepped out to provide value or provide

389
00:33:06,732 --> 00:33:13,132
different value. We've always lived in a kind of a narrow box of a belief system. And the genius

390
00:33:13,132 --> 00:33:21,832
over here, the crazy and the genius, always pushed us to new areas that was the free market,

391
00:33:22,392 --> 00:33:28,612
that if they were right, we moved. So if you were in this little box inside this control system,

392
00:33:28,612 --> 00:33:32,852
and the box was tightening narrower and narrower and you were in it, would you know you were in it?

393
00:33:33,652 --> 00:33:40,372
You would have to have privacy, right? Because privacy would be a threat to that. And if Bitcoin

394
00:33:40,372 --> 00:33:47,452
wasn't private and it was a threat to money, you would expect for sure that that would attack

395
00:33:47,452 --> 00:33:54,232
Bitcoin in time. You'd expect what I would expect if I go back four years. I'd expect most people to

396
00:33:54,232 --> 00:33:56,452
not have any idea what I'm saying right now.

397
00:33:57,292 --> 00:33:57,412
Right.

398
00:33:58,112 --> 00:34:01,892
Them to be acting from their own view of inside the control system,

399
00:34:02,192 --> 00:34:04,212
thinking Bitcoin was going up in value.

400
00:34:05,332 --> 00:34:05,552
Right.

401
00:34:06,372 --> 00:34:07,332
In other words,

402
00:34:07,512 --> 00:34:09,252
taking more risk of their Bitcoin,

403
00:34:09,852 --> 00:34:11,352
cheering for it to go up in value,

404
00:34:11,972 --> 00:34:15,132
cheering for the government to co-opt Bitcoin,

405
00:34:15,792 --> 00:34:16,932
to regulate it,

406
00:34:16,932 --> 00:34:17,932
to co-opt it,

407
00:34:18,112 --> 00:34:19,612
cheering for that to happen.

408
00:34:20,692 --> 00:34:23,672
And as they were cheering more and more inside,

409
00:34:23,672 --> 00:34:31,412
inside that, if Bitcoin was just open, at some point Bitcoin would be centralized and fail.

410
00:34:32,032 --> 00:34:38,032
But if you know that, and that's the thing, if just one idea can spread to another person and

411
00:34:38,032 --> 00:34:45,052
another person, if you know that, and you know that that risk is coming, and you know most people

412
00:34:45,052 --> 00:34:51,252
will fall willingly into that trap, what would you build? You would build pieces of protocol

413
00:34:51,252 --> 00:34:54,772
that provided freedom, true freedom and abundance

414
00:34:54,772 --> 00:34:58,112
that were built on top of Bitcoin

415
00:34:58,112 --> 00:34:59,912
or you would invest in those companies

416
00:34:59,912 --> 00:35:02,712
and people building that.

417
00:35:03,552 --> 00:35:04,732
And so this already exists.

418
00:35:05,312 --> 00:35:06,532
This exists in Fediment.

419
00:35:06,752 --> 00:35:07,912
This exists in Cashew.

420
00:35:08,072 --> 00:35:10,612
This exists in a bunch of different other privacy tech.

421
00:35:10,612 --> 00:35:13,112
And it will continue to exist

422
00:35:13,112 --> 00:35:16,432
and it will continue to get stronger and stronger and stronger

423
00:35:16,432 --> 00:35:18,752
as more people realize they need it

424
00:35:18,752 --> 00:35:25,152
in a system that's farming them and aware of every transaction, every communication that they're

425
00:35:25,152 --> 00:35:31,892
doing. And they thought they were living in a system where free speech was important. And they're

426
00:35:31,892 --> 00:35:38,552
more and more living in a system where it's punished. And you can see this from where money

427
00:35:38,552 --> 00:35:46,332
is most broken is, do people have free speech? So why would you expect if your money is not as

428
00:35:46,332 --> 00:35:51,512
broken as their money, but on trending towards being as broken? Why would you expect to have it?

429
00:35:51,972 --> 00:35:59,432
But the simple answer is, in the worst places in the world, in some of the worst places in the

430
00:35:59,432 --> 00:36:06,052
world, even where money is completely broken, you have a dictator and such, the free market still

431
00:36:06,052 --> 00:36:12,192
works. When they say, here's the rate, here's the exchange rate, the government exchange rate,

432
00:36:12,192 --> 00:36:18,212
there's always a dark market rate, the real market rate of the free market transacting.

433
00:36:19,832 --> 00:36:25,532
So if that exists in all of those places in the world, then the same thing exists here.

434
00:36:26,192 --> 00:36:33,932
The problem and the growing problem creates the opportunity for entrepreneurs to solve the problem,

435
00:36:34,412 --> 00:36:36,112
even though most people don't see it.

436
00:36:36,392 --> 00:36:41,112
And as entrepreneurs solve the problem and create value for society,

437
00:36:41,112 --> 00:36:46,032
as people see it and move to solve their problem, the companies do really well.

438
00:36:46,652 --> 00:36:49,492
When it comes to Bitcoin, the rules are simple.

439
00:36:50,092 --> 00:36:54,452
Run your own node, hold your own keys, and protect your seed phrase.

440
00:36:55,012 --> 00:36:56,872
That's where MicroSeed comes in.

441
00:36:57,532 --> 00:37:02,132
Unlike bulky backups, MicroSeed is stamped onto a tiny steel washer.

442
00:37:02,832 --> 00:37:08,412
Fireproof, waterproof, and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight.

443
00:37:08,412 --> 00:37:14,072
Go to microc.io and use the code MATRIX for a discount on your order.

444
00:37:38,412 --> 00:37:42,152
credit card in a convenience store and buy a candy bar very quickly for a very small dollar amount.

445
00:37:42,812 --> 00:37:47,312
Will people, do you think self-custody is important? And if so, do you think people will

446
00:37:47,312 --> 00:37:52,712
actually use it out of need or it'll be sort of a luxury and a nice to have, but a lot of people

447
00:37:52,712 --> 00:37:57,212
will still keep their money at Fidelity and BlackRock or whatever the new institution is?

448
00:37:57,212 --> 00:38:03,432
So I think self-custody is critical. I think self-custody is part of this and so is payment

449
00:38:03,432 --> 00:38:10,792
in Bitcoin. And so is Fediment to provide a different type of custodial solution that is

450
00:38:10,792 --> 00:38:18,532
near to self-custody. But I think self-custody is still critical. I think that that's a critical

451
00:38:18,532 --> 00:38:23,212
step. People should run a node. People should be in self-custody. People should be paying in

452
00:38:23,212 --> 00:38:28,612
Bitcoin. They should be starting to understand the ecosystem that's growing around it,

453
00:38:28,752 --> 00:38:32,092
because then they'll see all the opportunities to provide value.

454
00:38:32,092 --> 00:38:36,252
But do you think it'll be a thing where, you know, you go through the evolution of money.

455
00:38:36,332 --> 00:38:38,232
People wore necklaces to protect their money.

456
00:38:38,312 --> 00:38:44,812
So, you know, you couldn't take it while they were sleeping to necklaces with sort of a large amount of money became a very braggadocio type thing.

457
00:38:45,472 --> 00:38:52,192
You might keep some money in your house in cash, but maybe you keep most of it in your checking or savings and or your stocks.

458
00:38:52,492 --> 00:38:56,392
I don't think the institutions look anything like the institutions of today.

459
00:38:56,392 --> 00:39:18,052
So when you said people trust today, and then they find out that their food is laced with poison, and then they find out the medical system is lying to them, and then they find out the technocrats that are saying that they're wanting to help society, consolidating wealth and using to spy on them.

460
00:39:18,052 --> 00:39:24,832
Right. And and so when you say trust, it was a it was a belief of trust.

461
00:39:25,612 --> 00:39:35,352
Right. We we want to trust, but we keep finding in this more and more centralized society that that we can't trust the way we used to.

462
00:39:35,472 --> 00:39:46,872
Right. And why? Because money is so broken and it's so centered that that control system has to fool us, has to have us to believe something to extract more and more and more.

463
00:39:46,872 --> 00:39:49,652
And so that's where trust starts to break down.

464
00:39:50,052 --> 00:39:57,632
And you're rebuilding a new society on top of trust, on top of a system that can't be broken, where money can't be broken.

465
00:39:58,072 --> 00:40:03,752
And I think that's where a lot of people get stuck is they're trying to imagine a world.

466
00:40:03,952 --> 00:40:09,272
They change one factor, a big factor, and think everything else will look the same.

467
00:40:09,952 --> 00:40:10,712
It can't.

468
00:40:11,452 --> 00:40:14,072
There can be no monopoly in the free market.

469
00:40:14,072 --> 00:40:22,732
It's impossible because there's only possible monopolies under broken money or regulation to stop the free market.

470
00:40:23,012 --> 00:40:31,452
Because the margin that's created by somebody creating value is somebody's other opportunity to attack that margin.

471
00:40:32,052 --> 00:40:34,692
And so it constantly decentralizes.

472
00:40:34,692 --> 00:40:44,372
And so there's this belief because of the world we inhabit today that all of these things look the same in Bitcoin.

473
00:40:44,752 --> 00:40:48,092
They're just carrying over and they think only the money's changed.

474
00:40:48,192 --> 00:40:51,192
But because the money's changed, everything else changes.

475
00:40:51,812 --> 00:40:58,952
Is AI as big as Bitcoin or is it more like search and mobile?

476
00:40:59,912 --> 00:41:03,752
How much is AI going to sort of maybe impact our lives?

477
00:41:03,752 --> 00:41:12,192
a massive amount, right? And just from a very nature of, assume in some sort of capacity,

478
00:41:12,192 --> 00:41:16,732
if we don't have artificial general intelligence today, we'll have it tomorrow at some point,

479
00:41:16,932 --> 00:41:21,152
right? It might not look like these, it won't look like these big foundational models.

480
00:41:21,472 --> 00:41:28,852
It'll probably look more like a swarm of agents independently and acting together to provide value,

481
00:41:28,852 --> 00:41:32,252
But it'll feel like artificial general intelligence.

482
00:41:32,252 --> 00:41:44,628
It feel like it can do more than any single person And then you going to attach that swarm of agents or that hive mind type of thing into robotics And they going to be able to do any task that you can do

483
00:41:45,168 --> 00:41:50,288
better, faster, cheaper, 100 times better, faster, cheaper. And how couldn't that impact productivity?

484
00:41:50,548 --> 00:41:56,808
And if a company was employing all humans to do and making mistakes, and let's say they had 100

485
00:41:56,808 --> 00:42:02,988
humans providing some sort of value, let's take a lawyer, right, doing something for you.

486
00:42:02,988 --> 00:42:13,068
The artificial intelligence with one human or part-time was doing way cheaper, better, faster than that swarm of people.

487
00:42:13,248 --> 00:42:13,968
Who would you hire?

488
00:42:14,488 --> 00:42:15,348
Better, cheaper, faster.

489
00:42:16,528 --> 00:42:16,808
Yeah.

490
00:42:17,868 --> 00:42:22,448
And so should that productivity flow to you?

491
00:42:22,608 --> 00:42:27,028
Because you were an actor in the market trying to choose better, cheaper, faster.

492
00:42:27,028 --> 00:42:35,508
So all AI is, all robotics is, all of any innovation is that works is we use the things that provide us more value.

493
00:42:35,908 --> 00:42:38,648
And prices should fall as a result because we optimized.

494
00:42:39,428 --> 00:42:42,128
Is it going to make things better, cheaper, faster?

495
00:42:42,528 --> 00:42:45,688
Maybe we become more efficient, but do we get our time back?

496
00:42:45,748 --> 00:42:48,248
I feel like in the Internet era, we didn't actually get more.

497
00:42:48,688 --> 00:42:50,648
Or a lot of people don't feel like they got their time back.

498
00:42:50,648 --> 00:42:56,588
So that was early in the internet, and this is foundational to why I saw Bitcoin.

499
00:42:57,908 --> 00:43:05,728
What I thought I was building in the internet is kind of a global internet that everybody mattered and everybody could contribute.

500
00:43:06,128 --> 00:43:12,348
What happened because of broken money and network effects is it centralized power faster.

501
00:43:12,348 --> 00:43:15,948
For a while, it appeared that everybody contributed.

502
00:43:16,388 --> 00:43:20,908
And all of that power was extracted faster because prices weren't allowed to fall.

503
00:43:21,208 --> 00:43:26,388
Because you printed money into that to stop prices from falling, which centralized all power.

504
00:43:26,788 --> 00:43:37,468
And so what's different about Bitcoin is because it can't centralize, because it's bounded by energy, all prices are falling in it forever.

505
00:43:37,468 --> 00:43:46,388
As it moves faster, what people will think is happening is Bitcoin's rising really fast in pieces of paper.

506
00:43:46,748 --> 00:43:53,568
But what's actually happening is prices are all falling at a crazy rate and everybody is getting wealthy.

507
00:43:54,148 --> 00:43:57,068
Abundance for everyone. Infinite game.

508
00:43:58,088 --> 00:44:05,768
But again, what people think is happening is because they're measuring in a piece of paper, they think Bitcoin's going up.

509
00:44:05,768 --> 00:44:11,568
How are you using AI today? Do you have an avatar that attends meetings for you?

510
00:44:12,008 --> 00:44:18,128
I've used that. I still sometimes do. That's really a simple use case.

511
00:44:22,348 --> 00:44:31,668
I'll say my son has created agents that are his entire front end to his business and back end to his business.

512
00:44:31,668 --> 00:44:34,708
that he helps companies create agents.

513
00:44:35,028 --> 00:44:37,868
And he has a lead funnel

514
00:44:37,868 --> 00:44:42,808
that by the time the person's talking to my son,

515
00:44:43,428 --> 00:44:46,208
they think they know him or he knows them and everything.

516
00:44:46,428 --> 00:44:48,308
They've been working with him,

517
00:44:48,628 --> 00:44:50,128
but they've been working with the agents

518
00:44:50,128 --> 00:44:52,488
that have been constantly iterating

519
00:44:52,488 --> 00:44:53,748
and knowing the business

520
00:44:53,748 --> 00:44:56,508
and giving proposals while he sleeps.

521
00:44:56,868 --> 00:44:58,908
When you say an agent in this case,

522
00:44:58,908 --> 00:45:01,768
Is it a video slash hybrid?

523
00:45:01,828 --> 00:45:02,148
No, no.

524
00:45:02,268 --> 00:45:09,928
When I'm talking about narrow, narrow agents, one that would find a whole bunch of type of customers that he wants,

525
00:45:10,008 --> 00:45:16,328
another one that would find all of the names of those people in their social media profiles, dump them into the –

526
00:45:16,328 --> 00:45:22,168
another one that would send an email, another one that would – a targeted email in his voice and to that person.

527
00:45:22,428 --> 00:45:28,828
Another one that would say measure response rates and constantly update and try to drive a higher response rate.

528
00:45:28,908 --> 00:45:30,968
Another one that would do the same thing on LinkedIn.

529
00:45:31,928 --> 00:45:37,428
Another one that would kind of be orchestrating the whole thing.

530
00:45:37,508 --> 00:45:39,548
Another one that would then put together a proposal,

531
00:45:39,988 --> 00:45:43,108
knowing the customer's business and target market.

532
00:45:43,648 --> 00:45:46,268
This is all before he's ever talked to somebody.

533
00:45:46,268 --> 00:45:50,708
And each of those agents is constantly working and optimizing and getting better.

534
00:45:51,388 --> 00:45:52,488
So it's an entire funnel.

535
00:45:53,828 --> 00:45:58,548
And I'm using my son as an example, but I'm seeing this everywhere.

536
00:45:58,908 --> 00:46:07,768
I'm seeing this, which means the other side of this is a lot of people on Twitter and such are arguing with agents.

537
00:46:08,168 --> 00:46:08,968
They don't even know it.

538
00:46:09,708 --> 00:46:10,828
Wow, that's fascinating.

539
00:46:11,228 --> 00:46:12,608
That's a whole conversation.

540
00:46:13,168 --> 00:46:15,708
What about on the greater level?

541
00:46:16,428 --> 00:46:25,928
Is AI a great power that humanity is attempting to harness right now and can be unleashed in ways we just don't understand?

542
00:46:25,928 --> 00:46:28,888
And so all technology cuts both ways.

543
00:46:29,708 --> 00:46:35,328
We wouldn't use technology unless it provided us value.

544
00:46:36,048 --> 00:46:41,528
A business wouldn't use technology unless it provided them cost savings or an ability to do more with less.

545
00:46:41,868 --> 00:46:47,008
So you wouldn't use the technology that the business creates unless it did the same for you.

546
00:46:47,468 --> 00:46:49,208
You are part of the thing.

547
00:46:49,488 --> 00:46:50,608
How could that be bad?

548
00:46:52,608 --> 00:46:55,048
Would you build a road with a spoon?

549
00:46:55,928 --> 00:47:03,028
right? Or then you use a shovel, then you use an excavator, right? You're constantly, humanity's

550
00:47:03,028 --> 00:47:08,768
always searching for, we think the world looks this way, we invent new things to provide us

551
00:47:08,768 --> 00:47:16,488
our time to do things better, faster, cheaper. And the only things we use are the things that

552
00:47:16,488 --> 00:47:22,808
provide us more value. That's the constant path, and it moves faster and faster and faster

553
00:47:22,808 --> 00:47:31,608
throughout time because we're at higher and higher amplitudes of other people's work that

554
00:47:31,608 --> 00:47:37,188
we're sitting on top of that we don't have to relearn. And so why that would move exponentially

555
00:47:37,188 --> 00:47:42,048
is as everybody's contributing on top of this and finding errors and trying to contribute,

556
00:47:42,228 --> 00:47:46,988
of course, we're going to use the things that give us the most value. And of course,

557
00:47:46,988 --> 00:47:50,208
as a derivative of that, prices should be falling at that rate.

558
00:47:50,408 --> 00:47:53,708
But they can't from another system.

559
00:47:53,868 --> 00:47:58,028
So if you're measuring, if you're inside that system,

560
00:47:58,428 --> 00:48:01,288
if you're not in Bitcoin, or if you're in Bitcoin

561
00:48:01,288 --> 00:48:03,088
and you're measuring from the piece of paper,

562
00:48:03,788 --> 00:48:04,928
you are still in fiat.

563
00:48:05,308 --> 00:48:06,828
You are still in the zero-sum game.

564
00:48:06,828 --> 00:48:10,328
Do you think if we, when we get on a Bitcoin standard,

565
00:48:10,328 --> 00:48:15,088
that human life evolves differently

566
00:48:15,088 --> 00:48:17,308
beyond just our institutions changing?

567
00:48:17,848 --> 00:48:19,228
We get more time back.

568
00:48:19,308 --> 00:48:21,068
Is there more love in the world?

569
00:48:21,348 --> 00:48:22,228
More peace?

570
00:48:22,608 --> 00:48:25,068
So I'm going to turn the question around to you

571
00:48:25,068 --> 00:48:28,588
and ask you, in your time in Bitcoin,

572
00:48:29,508 --> 00:48:31,788
have you seen inside that ecosystem

573
00:48:31,788 --> 00:48:33,208
versus outside of it,

574
00:48:33,468 --> 00:48:36,268
have you seen more love, more belonging,

575
00:48:36,668 --> 00:48:37,508
more community,

576
00:48:37,948 --> 00:48:39,908
more of what you would expect to see

577
00:48:39,908 --> 00:48:42,468
on an honest chain that looks like that?

578
00:48:42,688 --> 00:48:45,808
I'm going to answer yes, but maybe that's what I'm looking for.

579
00:48:46,248 --> 00:48:47,088
Maybe others aren't.

580
00:48:47,348 --> 00:48:49,928
Yeah, so for me, that's exactly what I've seen.

581
00:48:49,928 --> 00:48:56,148
So I've seen a world that's emerging, exactly what I would expect it to do,

582
00:48:56,188 --> 00:48:58,928
and as people go deeper into that, they're never going back.

583
00:48:59,748 --> 00:49:03,048
And some of those people have become my closest friends in this,

584
00:49:03,248 --> 00:49:09,488
and why I know why this is so resilient is nothing is going to stop these people.

585
00:49:09,488 --> 00:49:15,148
They're going to create, and they're being joined by legions and legions of more people,

586
00:49:15,328 --> 00:49:20,008
each at different levels of understanding, that as they go deeper, they never go back.

587
00:49:21,108 --> 00:49:26,468
And so why I'm so positive about this happening is that's exactly what happens.

588
00:49:26,588 --> 00:49:29,888
It's a rise of consciousness in the world because you have your time back,

589
00:49:30,088 --> 00:49:33,128
because you're contributing to other people through an honest protocol,

590
00:49:33,468 --> 00:49:35,468
because your time is in an infinite game.

591
00:49:35,948 --> 00:49:38,888
And the mirror reflection you're starting to see in this,

592
00:49:38,888 --> 00:49:48,328
Now, I realize that depending on where you are in your Bitcoin journey, it might not look like that to you as you're still fighting the old system, right?

593
00:49:48,368 --> 00:49:58,568
As you're still spending all your time yelling at other people who don't get Bitcoin while you yourself is spending all of your time measuring it in a piece of paper, right?

594
00:50:00,268 --> 00:50:06,768
And so that will feel like a fight because you haven't kind of got to the bottom yet.

595
00:50:06,768 --> 00:50:09,408
But I also, it would have to look like that.

596
00:50:09,788 --> 00:50:12,668
It would have to look like that because it wasn't Bitcoin that was changing.

597
00:50:12,848 --> 00:50:14,108
It was us that was changing.

598
00:50:14,368 --> 00:50:18,068
Us making a decision which system we wanted to contribute our time to.

599
00:50:18,328 --> 00:50:21,988
You said, you know, if you were to hypothesize how all this would play out,

600
00:50:22,028 --> 00:50:25,848
it's kind of playing out very much how you would expect in some way, most ways.

601
00:50:26,028 --> 00:50:27,528
Exactly as I'd expect.

602
00:50:27,788 --> 00:50:34,928
Is there anything that in 2025 was unexpected or that you were really excited about, expected or not?

603
00:50:34,928 --> 00:50:41,668
I think the very big frame, nothing.

604
00:50:42,288 --> 00:50:50,248
But inside that, lots of people that have moved their time to this,

605
00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:54,808
spending time with President Velsalva or two times

606
00:50:54,808 --> 00:50:58,508
and understanding how deep he understands this was unexpected.

607
00:50:58,928 --> 00:51:04,388
I'm not saying that he couldn't choose, say one thing one day

608
00:51:04,388 --> 00:51:06,988
and choose another thing another day, just like we all could.

609
00:51:07,388 --> 00:51:11,108
But I believe he actually understands what this means for humanity

610
00:51:11,108 --> 00:51:14,208
and for the people in his country,

611
00:51:14,208 --> 00:51:17,748
and he's actually trying to make that happen.

612
00:51:17,928 --> 00:51:22,868
And by giving them agency, by ensuring that they understand this

613
00:51:22,868 --> 00:51:25,848
and use it as money, by telling them to run nodes,

614
00:51:26,468 --> 00:51:28,528
by training this in the school system,

615
00:51:28,928 --> 00:51:31,368
I actually believe he understands this and what it means.

616
00:51:31,368 --> 00:51:38,228
And so that was unexpected to hear somebody that I expected the opposite, actually.

617
00:51:38,568 --> 00:51:43,028
I expected to say one thing and do another.

618
00:51:43,428 --> 00:51:44,368
That's what I expected.

619
00:51:44,648 --> 00:51:53,588
And so that was unexpected to see somebody that felt like it was that authentic and to be able to say that.

620
00:51:53,628 --> 00:52:00,468
And when you're communicating something that you're telling other people they have agency, once they have agency, you can't take it away.

621
00:52:00,468 --> 00:52:02,808
And that spreads throughout the world.

622
00:52:03,008 --> 00:52:04,568
That spreads through more and more people.

623
00:52:04,768 --> 00:52:09,268
That spreads through what we're talking about right now in this podcast

624
00:52:09,268 --> 00:52:13,528
and allows other people to see how they too can contribute.

625
00:52:13,908 --> 00:52:16,888
One of my final questions for you is how do you...

626
00:52:16,888 --> 00:52:22,548
I was talking to Aaron Day about information and PSYOPs today.

627
00:52:23,408 --> 00:52:25,668
And we were talking about how we grew up hearing,

628
00:52:26,048 --> 00:52:29,668
finish the food on your plate, there are children starving in China.

629
00:52:29,668 --> 00:52:35,468
And I don't know if this is true, but he mentioned that maybe top 50 out of 60 companies right now in the world are Chinese.

630
00:52:36,328 --> 00:52:38,028
Most of our manufacturing is there.

631
00:52:38,028 --> 00:52:49,948
I mean, how much of what I grew up or we grew up hearing is filtered through sort of the lens of on truths or, you know, communications channels that weren't free?

632
00:52:50,428 --> 00:52:53,728
So unfortunately, a lot of it.

633
00:52:53,728 --> 00:53:07,848
Like, unfortunately, a lot of the belief in a longing time that looked different in that time was also, so we've never lived in a free market.

634
00:53:08,428 --> 00:53:13,728
That system had to divide us, had to manipulate money or change the rules of money.

635
00:53:14,648 --> 00:53:14,908
Great.

636
00:53:15,168 --> 00:53:17,548
So the gold system failed, right?

637
00:53:17,588 --> 00:53:21,408
Because it got centralized and you couldn't inflate it out.

638
00:53:21,408 --> 00:53:26,308
So we just changed the rules of it, then drove into the petrodollar system.

639
00:53:27,248 --> 00:53:34,068
We just created new winners and losers to be able to anchor our money to oil,

640
00:53:34,768 --> 00:53:36,688
and a different energy-backed money.

641
00:53:37,928 --> 00:53:43,108
And that required a whole belief system that some people were enemies

642
00:53:43,108 --> 00:53:50,528
and some people were the good guys, which we created,

643
00:53:50,528 --> 00:53:57,048
which was still a zero-sum game, which is breaking down today because money's still broken, always been broken.

644
00:53:57,748 --> 00:54:03,568
And people are going to believe in a different belief system because they're living from within the system that money's always been broken.

645
00:54:04,288 --> 00:54:05,228
But they don't know it.

646
00:54:05,468 --> 00:54:09,068
So a lot of those things, a lot of those things, if you just think about the food pyramid,

647
00:54:09,588 --> 00:54:16,008
invention of the food pyramid or the inversion of the food pyramid, when I was born in 69, right?

648
00:54:16,008 --> 00:54:18,548
It happened just after.

649
00:54:19,048 --> 00:54:23,608
And my growing up, I thought the cereals were the healthiest thing for you.

650
00:54:23,708 --> 00:54:25,988
All the things you don't want, you didn't want to eat eggs.

651
00:54:26,128 --> 00:54:29,648
You didn't want to, they were bad for you because we were programmed to believe that.

652
00:54:29,768 --> 00:54:31,248
Why were we programmed to believe that?

653
00:54:31,328 --> 00:54:38,848
Because you had to stop food inflation in a time you were going off the gold reserve to keep people placated.

654
00:54:38,848 --> 00:54:47,488
And so when you see some of the implications of that on health and well-being and everything else played way forward,

655
00:54:47,868 --> 00:54:57,088
and it forces you to ask, what else was I led to believe from big food or big tech or big pharma or this out of a control system?

656
00:54:58,208 --> 00:55:00,048
Big education, right?

657
00:55:00,508 --> 00:55:07,808
Because the studies that reinforce that, when you look down to those studies, you can clearly see.

658
00:55:07,808 --> 00:55:09,808
that they were paid for?

659
00:55:09,808 --> 00:55:13,808
So, you know, thinking about control systems and being a slave to the algorithm,

660
00:55:13,808 --> 00:55:17,808
two things that have been really disturbing to me, I mean, I like being on X.

661
00:55:17,808 --> 00:55:20,808
I'm probably on there too much. I sort of...

662
00:55:20,808 --> 00:55:24,808
It's a very interesting experience, but I didn't like the Butler video

663
00:55:24,808 --> 00:55:28,808
and the Charlie Kirk video being instantaneously on my feed

664
00:55:28,808 --> 00:55:32,748
within seconds of that happening. I felt very...

665
00:55:32,784 --> 00:55:36,124
So how has maybe moving to Nostar changed you?

666
00:55:36,504 --> 00:55:38,224
Nostar is still early, right?

667
00:55:38,364 --> 00:55:41,684
And I don't see it as a clone of Twitter.

668
00:55:42,944 --> 00:55:47,144
I'm on it because as it becomes a protocol layer,

669
00:55:47,424 --> 00:55:49,824
one of the layers of identity and communications,

670
00:55:50,344 --> 00:55:52,424
it becomes so much more than Twitter.

671
00:55:53,744 --> 00:55:56,444
There's other things you can do with identity,

672
00:55:57,224 --> 00:55:59,344
and you can preserve your identity.

673
00:56:00,124 --> 00:56:02,584
It doesn't have to be Cedric Young.

674
00:56:02,784 --> 00:56:08,424
You could do it in a NIM and you could still have communication with it and it's you.

675
00:56:09,164 --> 00:56:16,964
And you could build a web of trust out of that, out of people who constantly do the right thing versus people who don't.

676
00:56:16,964 --> 00:56:26,964
And you could find out who do you like, who do they follow, and you could build a web of trust where you can't do that in a centralized fashion.

677
00:56:27,744 --> 00:56:29,104
You have to rely on the algorithm.

678
00:56:29,104 --> 00:56:34,404
You have to rely on what they want to show you and why they want to show it to you.

679
00:56:34,864 --> 00:56:42,824
And how could you have freedom in expression if embedded in freedom and expression

680
00:56:42,824 --> 00:56:49,184
that you have different rules in different regions based on what the government says

681
00:56:49,184 --> 00:56:50,584
that can't exist?

682
00:56:51,124 --> 00:56:53,104
So you start to see...

683
00:56:53,104 --> 00:56:58,024
Now, I'm not saying if you like Twitter, stay on Twitter and everything.

684
00:56:58,024 --> 00:57:03,324
at this is just like if you like fiat stay in fiat it's not my job to tell somebody when

685
00:57:03,324 --> 00:57:08,484
what they need to do i'm just saying for my own decision and and it happened through the

686
00:57:08,484 --> 00:57:25,602
first time through and he larry larry lepart has had this happen how many times now and a sim a phone attack that attacked my Twitter a bunch of other things that had to come from the highest levels of the phone company

687
00:57:25,602 --> 00:57:29,302
because of our security against that.

688
00:57:29,362 --> 00:57:32,182
The only way it could have happened is through that.

689
00:57:33,222 --> 00:57:37,902
And understanding how I was exposed there and what that looked like

690
00:57:37,902 --> 00:57:41,842
and a lowering and lowering of why am I spending time?

691
00:57:42,082 --> 00:57:46,902
Am I gaining value or am I contributing value to society here?

692
00:57:48,042 --> 00:57:52,522
How much time, what does it mean for my life?

693
00:57:52,722 --> 00:57:57,082
Am I life better or neutral out of the things I'm doing here?

694
00:57:57,142 --> 00:58:02,802
It's easy to tell yourself all of the things I'm doing I need to do,

695
00:58:02,802 --> 00:58:07,682
but really questioning that led me to, I don't need to do it at all.

696
00:58:07,902 --> 00:58:10,122
I just don't need to do this.

697
00:58:10,322 --> 00:58:15,502
And I wanted to contribute more of my time to the world that I want to see,

698
00:58:15,502 --> 00:58:21,302
the decentralized, secure, honest, where people create value

699
00:58:21,302 --> 00:58:24,902
and it has to be expressed in a free market.

700
00:58:25,042 --> 00:58:26,082
I just wanted to contribute.

701
00:58:26,662 --> 00:58:32,422
And I didn't mind losing 375,000 followers to be able to do that.

702
00:58:33,382 --> 00:58:36,062
It was my choice because I didn't.

703
00:58:36,062 --> 00:58:37,262
I wasn't

704
00:58:37,262 --> 00:58:40,122
at the time I remember somebody on Noster

705
00:58:40,122 --> 00:58:41,462
we'll see he'll go back

706
00:58:41,462 --> 00:58:43,982
right and I didn't

707
00:58:43,982 --> 00:58:45,822
go back because I'm

708
00:58:45,822 --> 00:58:48,182
because of that but it's

709
00:58:48,182 --> 00:58:50,242
just I just made a choice

710
00:58:50,242 --> 00:58:52,222
not that everybody else has to that I

711
00:58:52,222 --> 00:58:54,262
wanted to spend more time and by doing

712
00:58:54,262 --> 00:59:08,540
so I get to see all of the genius and the chaos and everything else emerging in the new system So I get to spend more time and all of the people there So that choice was a benefit

713
00:59:08,540 --> 00:59:11,980
not in reach, but in value. What about sort of cleansing your,

714
00:59:13,180 --> 00:59:18,460
or just finding better signal in terms of maybe, I feel like Twitter is like a psychological

715
00:59:18,460 --> 00:59:24,300
operation on us. And there's some pros, but I'm feeling over the long term, it's more negative

716
00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:29,120
than positive what I'm being exposed to and how I'm being exposed to it, the timing of it and the

717
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:36,700
way it's being sort of cadenced to me and sequenced. I knew this from early in building

718
00:59:36,700 --> 00:59:44,020
tech that the brain science and understanding how our brains react to cues, to stimulus,

719
00:59:44,140 --> 00:59:50,820
stimulus response, and how you do the studies and you could essentially get somebody to do

720
00:59:50,820 --> 00:59:57,840
whatever you wanted to. And this is how advertising works today. And if you implanted fear or something

721
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:06,300
first, right. And then another thought, and then you can, you can kind of make a suggestion that

722
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:10,140
moves somebody. And there's a, so there's a whole bunch of science to this. And now if you take

723
01:00:10,140 --> 01:00:15,640
technology and you understand the science, you can do exactly what you're saying. And, and people

724
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:20,540
wouldn't know that they're inside, inside that system. And they're constantly replaying and

725
01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:25,580
they're actually building community there, which they think is a really powerful, they

726
01:00:25,580 --> 01:00:27,860
don't want to give up their community.

727
01:00:27,860 --> 01:00:33,220
And then sometimes they could just, the algorithm could take them down and they fight harder

728
01:00:33,220 --> 01:00:36,960
to try to get that community back because it feels like loss.

729
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:53,998
And so and that why you just have to ask yourself if a word if you if you were living in a world that looked like this unbroken money money and you thought everybody else seemed like they were insane but their view of reality was totally right for their view of reality what makes you think yours isn

730
01:00:53,998 --> 01:01:08,998
And I ask myself that often. I ask myself that. So if everybody else I see is caught, and they're kind of mirroring back, they're caught here, and they're getting mad and mad inside that, can I objectively be sure?

731
01:01:09,238 --> 01:01:12,278
I'm not the same and I can't.

732
01:01:12,278 --> 01:01:16,558
I just constantly have to ask the question and make decisions to try to,

733
01:01:16,558 --> 01:01:19,798
to avoid the worst part of that.

734
01:01:20,098 --> 01:01:23,258
Well, Jeff, this has been incredible as always.

735
01:01:23,538 --> 01:01:25,238
I really appreciate you making time,

736
01:01:25,358 --> 01:01:28,498
taking time out of the holiday season to come talk to us.

737
01:01:28,638 --> 01:01:31,278
So, you know, thank you so much.

738
01:01:31,338 --> 01:01:33,878
I'll leave it to you for any parting words and let people know where they can

739
01:01:33,878 --> 01:01:34,738
find you and your work.

740
01:01:35,038 --> 01:01:36,358
No, anytime, Cedric.

741
01:01:36,498 --> 01:01:38,858
Just thanks for everything you do in the space too.

742
01:01:38,858 --> 01:01:41,438
and a pleasure to be on this journey with you.

743
01:01:42,238 --> 01:01:43,418
Hope to see you soon, Jeff.

744
01:01:43,518 --> 01:01:44,258
Thanks so much.

745
01:02:08,858 --> 01:02:11,338
and let's keep growing this community together.

746
01:02:11,618 --> 01:02:13,158
Stay curious, keep stacking,

747
01:02:13,378 --> 01:02:15,138
and I'll catch you in the next one.