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Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman. The Bitcoin Matrix is a

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self-supported podcast, so please consider supporting us directly via PayPal, Venmo,

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Bitcoin on Strike, check, money order, or subscribing directly to the Bitcoin Matrix

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podcast on the Fountain app to get early ad-free access to every new episode. Please check for

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links in the show notes. On Tuesday nights, Paul Tarantino and I host Bitcoin Center every Tuesday

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night at 8 p.m. Eastern live. Check it out for the laughs, jokes and the debate. We have big news.

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The fourth annual Bitcoin Day Naples is officially moving to the brand new Naples Beach Club,

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a four seasons resort on Saturday, January 17, 2026. This isn't just a change in venue. It's a

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full elevation. The resort literally just opened its doors with stunning oceanfront gathering spaces,

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five-star service, and the kind of polished yet relaxed vibe that makes a Bitcoin conference feel

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like the premium experience it should be. We're expecting 250-plus builders, investors, and serious

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Bitcoiners in the room, plus a high-quality live stream reaching thousands more. The speaker lineup

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is coming together fast, including Natalie Brunel, Larry Lippard, myself, and many more,

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And the entire day will be packed with signal, no fluff, just the conversations and connections that move the space forward.

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And new this year, the night before the conference, Friday, January 16th,

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Bitcoin Day is hosting an intimate carnivore dinner with Dr. Sean Baker.

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The Bitcoin Matrix podcast officially partnered with CrowdHealth, but I also joined as a member.

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A couple of months ago, I officially partnered with MicroSeed,

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because this is the best damn seed storage hardware I have seen in eight plus years of being in this space.

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They supply titanium, stainless steel, and nylon washers.

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Imagine storing your seed phrase on nylon short term to get through body scanners, x-rays, and metal detectors.

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Imagine stamping the words, so small, they are nearly invisible to the human eye.

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MicroSeed engraves your entire Bitcoin seed phrase on a fireproof, waterproof steel, or titanium washer

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the size of a dime. Discreet, resilient seed security made simple. Use the code matrix for

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a discount at microseed.io. In this episode, I chat with Aaron Day, a freedom movement architect,

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serial entrepreneur, and outspoken opponent of global technocracy. After government regulations

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destroyed his healthcare business, Aaron walked away from the fiat system, becoming an early

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advocate for Bitcoin and decentralized alternatives. He's also the author of The Final

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Countdown and a former presidential candidate who used his campaign to warn Americans about the

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growing threat of surveillance, CBDCs, and global governance. We dive deep into the rise of

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technocracy, the ideology behind it, and how key players like Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, and institutions

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like the World Economic Forum and United Nations are accelerating the shift towards centralized

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digital control. Aaron also breaks down how carbon credits, UBI, AI governance, and the Genius Act

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all tie into a looming financial surveillance panopticon. If you're looking to understand the

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bigger picture behind CBDCs, the hijacking of crypto, and how to opt out of the system,

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This rip is for you. And now, let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with Aaron Day.

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What is real? How do you define real? You can't jump into cash. Cash is trash. What do you do? You get out.

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Aaron Day, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast. How are you?

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I'm well. How are you? Thank you for having me.

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I'm great. I'm excited to get into this.

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Maybe you could tell us about your background and what you do now.

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Sure. So my background, I started out as a serial entrepreneur,

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dropped out of college when I was 19 and started an internet company back in 1995

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and have always been kind of a pro-liberty kind of person.

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And I'd like to say I was radicalized three times.

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The first time was learning how venture capital and Wall Street works.

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I mean, I started out as kind of this Ayn Rand objectivist capitalism, the unknown ideal,

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and then learned pretty quickly how much cronyism there is throughout the process.

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Got to meet 150 different VCs, spent time working on going public, the whole nine yards.

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And so that changed my perspective on the degree to which we have free markets.

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Then I started another company in 2008 in the healthcare space, which was a very successful company.

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We were profitable. We had clients in 43 states.

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And it was a very simple business.

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I mean, we were working with corporations and providing financial incentives to reward their employees for losing weight or maintaining a healthy weight,

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which turns out that's one of the largest drivers of healthcare costs.

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and Obamacare came in and basically said you can no longer use financial incentives under the health

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plan to reward people for measured success you can only reward them for participation so they

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basically participation trophied our entire business model and then we had issues with Dodd

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Frank and Attorney General Eric Holder we were collateral damage we weren't targeted unlike you

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know people that I know who were specifically targeted by the government we were just collateral

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damage. And so that was my second radicalization. And so then I got heavily involved in the Liberty

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Movement. I moved to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project, which is a movement to get

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20,000 people to consolidate in New Hampshire and to basically make New Hampshire the freest place

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on earth. And got heavily involved in that. I was the chair of that organization for a while.

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My wife and I ran many other liberty organizations to help get candidates elected.

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I became a candidate myself and then became disillusioned with the political process, which is a whole other separate conversation.

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But during that time, around 2012, learned about Bitcoin from Roger Ver and Ian Freeman.

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And we actually used cryptocurrency in New Hampshire early on as an actual payment method.

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So there at one point, I think New Hampshire was the highest per capita crypto usage on

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earth.

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And so there were many restaurants and stores and Bitcoin meetups and that kind of thing.

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And we actually used it for political activism as well.

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So we were one of the first super PACs to take Bitcoin back in 2014.

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I think my wife was the first state Senate candidate to take Bitcoin.

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So a whole bunch of that.

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And we were even paying activists using Bitcoin.

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Fast forward, became disillusioned with politics around 2019, exited fiat, completely stopped using a personal bank account, which has been a challenge, but I still think is the most important thing that we can do to stop what I think is the biggest threat, which is the threat of global technocracy, which I'm sure we'll get into in more detail.

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And, you know, even to raise awareness on this, ran for president because being in New Hampshire, we're the first in the nation primary state.

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So there's an opportunity to get in front of the other candidates.

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And so actually Vivek Ramaswamy read my book, The Final Countdown.

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We had three different conversations about it.

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And in part, it moved him to push Trump to come out against CBDCs the night before the primary election.

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in New Hampshire, which has backfired tremendously, by the way. I think that the Genius Act is a

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backdoor CBDC, and it's actually kind of my worst nightmare, because a lot of people are like,

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you must be happy. You helped in some way. I'm not going to say it's a huge way, but

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to stop CBDCs, and in reality, I think we have something worse. And so for the last three years,

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I have been, my wife and I have been traveling around the country. I think we've been to 27

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states, three countries, warning people about technocracy and what all that means, which is

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essentially moving towards a global governance model with an energy credit based currency system

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and social credit scores and everything else where essentially we lose our free will because

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under technocracy, which is actually an ideological movement, it's not just the application of

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technology to a particular situation. It's a movement that started in the 1930s. I mean,

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You can research this.

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I mean, they actually had, you know, they all wore gray suits.

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It was called technocracy gray.

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It was hatched out of the basement of Columbia University.

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But the whole basis of it in the 1930s, which was kind of interesting and forward thinking,

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was to flip the economy from being a price-based system based on supply and demand to one based on energy credits.

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And where the fundamental premise of it is that the people are too stupid to make their own decisions.

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We need scientists and engineers to make decisions for people.

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and the best way to do this is within this energy credit-based system.

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And lo and behold, this is kind of where we are today.

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So traveled around, warned people about that,

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and then have also been trying to teach people how to live off of alternative currencies,

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which I positioned it as crypto, gold, and silver,

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but it's actually moved over the last 12 months exclusively into privacy coins,

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given some of the issues that we have with the transparency

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and tracking of transparent blockchains.

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And so here we are now at the Brownstone Institute as a fellow.

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My wife and I run the Daylight Freedom Foundation, which is a nonprofit, but we have five other organizations that are kind of branched off of that, including we just launched a global medical tourism marketplace called oasana.com.

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So at this point, the focus is on just trying to help people opt out of the system and pursue parallel systems, which we need desperately based on what's going on.

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Well, there's a lot to unpack there.

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I really want to get back into 2012 and meeting Roger Ver.

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But I think sort of top of order here is just really more getting into this global technocracy.

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You know, I kind of thought about it, not understanding the word.

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That must make some sense that we're going to have the really smart people who understand technology kind of lead the way.

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Maybe it won't be so mired in sort of human politics.

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I didn't think of it.

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I didn't know about the gray suits that were technocratic gray in the 1930s.

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So who are some of the technocrats today?

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And how do CBDCs fit into this?

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Sure.

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And, I mean, technocracy, I only learned about it actually when I started writing my book.

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So I'm fairly new to it. But there's a guy named Patrick Wood, who's been covering this whole area for 45 years. He's written four different books. He has a website called technocracy.news. And so my mind was blown when I saw this information.

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and this is what you said is a common understanding of technocracy you know because it looks like

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technology and frankly nobody has you're never going to be introduced to technocracy it's not

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like it's taught in schools or it's anything that's very popular but if you want to talk

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about some people who are technocrats Elon Musk is a technocrat Elon Musk's grandfather was the head

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of the Canadian technocrat party and so when I say it's an ideology this is one of the things that

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frustrates me and I try to tweet about it a lot, but it does get somewhat suppressed.

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Elon Musk is for UBI. He is for energy credits. He is for global governance by AI, which he stated

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at a world government summit. He is actually probably the poster child for technocracy.

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And the complication with this is people confuse the fact that, yes, he's successful and he's

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created some great things but that doesn mean that technocracy is the kind of ideology people would be excited about if they fully understood what it was Some of the other players that are pushing it whether they are you know if you look at Peter Thiel

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if you look at Larry Ellison, you know, frankly, most of the people that are pushing for it.

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Larry Ellison has been very pro surveillance state.

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I mean, he stated it on camera.

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There'll be cameras everywhere tracking everyone.

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He's a huge proponent of this.

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And at this point, you're seeing huge lobbying efforts on the part of big tech.

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And I'm old enough to remember when at least I thought maybe my perception was always wrong, but I always thought that tech.

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I remember thinking that Bill Gates was a libertarian.

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That tells you how long ago back that was.

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But like in the early 90s, he actually seemed like he was somewhat of a libertarian.

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And in the 80s, Silicon Valley was somewhat, you know, libertarian leaning.

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If anything, it was Republican, libertarian leaning.

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And something has happened over the last couple of decades.

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And now big tech has become not only woke, but heavily engaged in government contracts and working directly with the security state.

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And so it's a global phenomenon, though.

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It's not just people in the United States.

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If you look at organizations like the WEF and the UN, which, by the way, the charter and the original mission of the UN was always to create global government.

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When you go back and look at the founding documents, this has always been what it's all about.

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UN Agenda 2030 is essentially, the way I look at it is, those are the 17 elements of a social credit system, the sustainable development goals.

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And so they're certainly pushing for digital currency in a situation where, again, from the top down, they'll decide everything from where you live, what kind of pronouns you can use, what work opportunities are available for you, 15-minute cities, the whole nine yards.

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And the WEF has been big in promoting.

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And these are some of the largest corporations on earth.

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I think if you look at the top 10, in fact, I haven't updated this statistic.

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I'm sure it's way beyond that now.

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But the top 10 partner companies in the WEF, last time I checked, had a combined market cap of $9 trillion, employed millions of people.

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And they have over 1,000 members.

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And they're pushing a lot of these policies.

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And I could go on about this for a long time.

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But essentially what happened is the technocracy movement in the 30s fell apart for a while.

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It was rekindled with the formation of the Trilateral Commission in the early 1970s with David Rockefeller and Brzezinski.

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And then they actually laid out the framework the Trilateral Commission did for the UN's new international economic order.

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And that was in 1974. And that essentially has become the basis for the UN Agenda 2030.

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And so there's been this big movement with the Trilateral Commission.

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Their strategy has been since inception to basically infiltrate governments that the tri part of trilateral means North America, Europe and Asia.

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But predominantly that's meant Japan.

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And what they've done is they've influenced governments at the very high level in all of those regions to push policy, to push towards globalization and to move towards this type of global system.

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And to give you an example, in Jimmy Carter's term, all but one member of his cabinet were members of the Trilateral Commission.

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Every president has had at least one member of the Trilateral Commission.

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And usually the Commerce Secretary is a member of the Trilateral Commission, which, of course, that's an important role because it's involved in negotiating global trade deals.

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Health insurance is broken. I know it. You know it.

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So an open enrollment rolls around and all those health insurance companies start hoping you'll just re-sign, eyes closed, for the same overpriced plan with confusing fine print.

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It feels like they're betting on your inaction, but we deserve better than that.

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That's why I started looking for something different for me and my family.

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Something honest.

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That's when I found CrowdHealth.

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With CrowdHealth, it's not about profits.

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It's about people and community.

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You get a team that helps negotiate your bills, access to low-cost prescriptions and lab tests.

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and a list of doctors who don't treat you like a number.

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In terms of a movement being from the 1930s to the UN Agenda 2030, which is 100 years,

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so this is multi-generational.

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And the current sort of technocrats we could point to are, you know,

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the most powerful and prominent people in the world.

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Would we, if you became a multi-billionaire, would you kind of be starting to think,

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wow, surveillance makes sense.

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I got to make all these decisions for humanity.

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somehow I think this is altruistic.

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Because I listen to this and I'm like, this is fucking nuts.

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I don't like any of this.

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But someone like Elon Musk says, you know, I'm for free speech.

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This is why I bought X to free humanity, to free speech,

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to bring that to the people.

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Some people like UBI, they might say, wow,

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what are we going to do about the people who are worse off in society?

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we have to deal with sort of the lack of abundance in jobs now because of AI and different things.

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I mean, what would you say to that? Or how do you take that in?

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Well, I mean, I think first of all, Musk did not buy X to save free speech,

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and he did not save free speech.

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I agree.

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Free speech.

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To be very clear, there's a video of him sitting in an office with a couple of coworkers,

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and he said explicitly he bought X or Twitter to rip off WeChat,

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which is the everything app in China, and one up WeChat. And so it is one of the biggest pieces of

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propaganda out there that he bought it to save free speech and that he did save free speech.

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I understand that a lot of people, this is the problem, right? This is the challenge that I've

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had. I'm running around trying to explain to people what technocracy is. And they think Musk

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is a hero, and they're buying the propaganda that he saved free speech. And it's tough because,

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again, on the one hand, I'm not one of these guys, I don't hate him because he has a lot of money or

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anything like that. I mean, I actually bought the first Tesla Model S in New Hampshire. So it's

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one of those things where when you attack him, people think somehow you're attacking capitalism,

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although we could discuss the extent to which the government is involved in propping up his

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businesses, including using things like carbon credits. But nevertheless, he's a talented guy,

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and he's a successful entrepreneur. But no, he didn't buy to protect free speech,

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and we don't have free speech. In fact, I would argue that this whole freedom of reach thing,

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We would have been better off if we knew blatantly we were being censored than have the illusion that we have free speech and then not fight back.

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This is a common thing that's going on right now, which is before the presidential election in 2024, people were up in arms.

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They didn't like Klaus Schwab.

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They were against digital IDs.

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They were against CBDCs.

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You know, they didn't like the globalists.

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And technocracy in this global movement has accelerated five years since the election, and it's done so without any resistance at all.

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As an example, on the digital ID front, we have Real ID, which was originally proposed in 2005.

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It was like tacked on to a tsunami relief bill, and people fought it for years.

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There were like 24 state attorney generals were fighting it.

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People were resisting it.

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It took 20 years for it to finally pass, and it didn't pass until under Trump with no opposition.

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Real ID is now digital in 12 states, and it is anticipated that it will be fully digital by 2027.

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and they're already talking about fines of $45 each plane ticket if you don't have a real ID.

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So this is one example of where the kind of thing that people didn't like it

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when it was Klaus Schwab or Bill Gates talking about it,

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they have rolled over and I take that same approach with free speech.

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They think we have free speech and we don't have free speech

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and we don't have any actual resistance to what is actually going on.

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We're kind of in a delusional state.

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I mean, as to the question of UBI, there are fundamental questions that need to be figured out as the economy transitions.

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However, one of the consequences of technocracy is it's kind of anti-free will.

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So if you believe in free will and your ability to make decisions for yourself and control your own life, which I think is tantamount and important in terms of the nature of consciousness itself, then technocracy is antithetical to that.

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But Musk has painted a picture of what things will be like with under, it's not UBI, what does he call it, universal grade income or whatever it happens to be.

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But it's one where people aren't really making decisions or don't have any agency in their own life.

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So I think the idea that we are kind of like if you've seen that movie Wall-E where everybody's obese, floating around in hover chairs glued to their device, that seems to be kind of the model and approach that Musk is pushing.

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So I don't believe that anybody should have control over making day-to-day decisions in any individual's life regardless of how successful they may or may not be.

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Is all this sort of a scripted, coordinated uniparty where, I mean, I think of it as the pendulum being swung against the people where it's divide and conquer.

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But under party A, we're going to get all the people on party B really upset about a lot of things.

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So then when party B comes into power, we can get them to do the things that party A wouldn't be able to do because party B would stop it.

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So it's sort of like, you know, but does Trump, does Musk run any of these companies?

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or is it sort of he's a complete showman and sort of, you know, I mean, he's a non-citizen.

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All of a sudden they're like, here, you can buy Twitter basically, right,

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for not a lot of money and control the world's most powerful propaganda tool.

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We're going to say that you cut 80% of the staff and it got better in quotes.

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And for that, it's almost like the PSYOP, like now we're going to hand you all the data

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and the entire government to hand over to Palantir.

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I mean, is Musk just Teal's front man?

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You know, does Trump know that he's orchestrating five years faster of all this sort of surveillance rollout?

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Or is he just like happy to be in power and they can use him as sort of that pendulum swing?

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I mean, what are your thoughts on all of that?

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Yeah, I mean, I don't think Trump is in power.

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You know, a lot of people like to ascribe, you know, 5D chess and all this other stuff to Trump.

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I think Trump is just a narcissist who's easy to kind of pull the strings.

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and work his ego.

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I don't think he's a mastermind pushing technocracy.

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I don't think he's like an evil guy strategizing about this,

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but he's letting it happen.

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And so he gets to be surrounded by all of these billionaires

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and he gets to think that he's doing all of these big things

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and tries to glom on to the success of those that are pushing these things.

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So I think that he's being duped.

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I mean, as to, you know, I don't think Elon is just,

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I mean, he's a smart guy.

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You know, it is pretty remarkable what he's able to do.

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Although playing around with AI, maybe he's just had a leg up on having AI because maybe he's a preview of what happens when you're one model ahead on the AI front.

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But certainly I think if there is a real mastermind behind it, it's Peter Thiel.

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Peter Thiel is fascinating to study and to look at.

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He is playing 5D chess.

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In fact, he himself is a chess master.

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But he has put pieces in place over quite a long period of time.

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For instance, J.D. Vance is absolutely a puppet of Peter Thiel. He was literally selected and groomed, right? I mean, even the backstory of it, they met at Yale and everything else. But Thiel gave him his first job. Thiel put $15 million into his Senate campaign. Thiel is the one who introduced Vance to Trump. I mean, literally, Vance would not be anywhere near in this position at all. It's all been.

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And first job was a successful hedge fund.

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So sorry to talk over you, but it wasn't just – I think it was so much more than a first job.

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Wasn't it like a multimillion-dollar successful hedge fund that –

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It was a hedge fund, and then he got a job as like a COO of a biotech company, which he has absolutely no domain expertise.

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And as people have actually been trying to trace this around, I did an episode on this, and somebody claimed that he was never even around for the biotech job because I think he was doing – I might be conflating the jobs, but he was out doing his book tour.

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which, you know, his Hillbilly Elegy or whatever that book was, he didn't even write that either.

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That was scripted. And then he was on a PR campaign for that while not doing the job that he was handed because of a Peter Thiel introduction.

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So his entire bio was handcrafted. And then interestingly, he was in Silicon Valley for a while and then decided to run for Senate in Ohio and completely flipped on all of his views.

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And so his political positions changed overnight, just as his name has changed like three times.

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And so, I mean, literally this guy is, I don't know if you want to call him the Manchurian candidate, I don't know what you want to call him, but Thiel is clearly driving that.

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Now when you look at Thiel and the thing that been fascinating about this to me is that Thiel has positioned himself for a long time as a libertarian And I remember this in 2012 or whatever He would go to these libertarian events He supported seasteading

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We had talked to him at one point about the Free State Project and whatever, but he never really seemed politically to be ideologically libertarian.

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And then as you dig into it, you find that he's heavily influenced by this guy, Curtis Yarvin, which should be very alarming to people if you read what Curtis Yarvin writes about.

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And Yarvin's become really popular.

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He's kind of the – I don't know.

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Maybe he's kind of the alt-right libertarian-ish hero now at this point.

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And he's architected a lot of what's going on.

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He's architected some things that sound good on the surface, something called rage, retire all government employees.

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and he's been big on stating that America should have a dictator or a monarch not a president and

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that monarchies are more successful historically over time than democracies leaving aside the fact

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that we're not a democracy I mean so he's basically comparing us to something that we're not and

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therefore saying we should move in this direction to defeat the thing that we're not but a lot of

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people have gotten caught up in it because some of what he says makes sense. I mean, what he says

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about the media and academia being taken over, he calls it the cathedral. So he paints some things

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that resonate with people. But what people don't know is they think that when he says retire all

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government employees, it's and replace them with nothing. But in essence, what he's doing is he's

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pushing an agenda to consolidate power in the executive branch and then transition that to

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technocracy. And this is essentially what's been going on. So Trump has been pushing for

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tremendous powers. For instance, one is he's signed an executive order pushing for a sovereign

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wealth fund, which is pretty anti-American. I mean, the fact that America is now investing in

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Intel and Lithium Americas and all of these other companies, and this is even before a sovereign

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wealth fund has been approved. Sovereign wealth funds are very powerful. They control something

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like 7% of all of the assets on earth at this point in time. And most of the sovereign wealth

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funds are either dictatorships or monarchies. And so this is part of what is being pushed. And I

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think it's being pushed not to Trump's benefit. It's being pushed for J.D. Vance under the

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assumption that after Trump's term, J.D. Vance will be in power. And then after you've given

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the data to Palantir, after you've created the database of Americans and then everything else

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that's going on, then the answer is going to be, you know, Elon's the hero again.

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He saved free speech, and now he's going to save America by implementing a technocracy.

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And I think that it's, to me, it's pretty obvious that that's the direction that it's

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going in.

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I mean, J.D. Vance, I think, he went to Yale with Vivek, I think, or he was close with Vivek's

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wife at Yale, I think.

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And Vivek ran a very interesting business with the biopharmaceutical, which seemed a

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little scammy to me, or very scammy, like a pump and dump.

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But let's go. So why what are they doing with the carbon credits? How does this fit into the plan? Let's expand on carbon credits.

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Well, the whole point again, once you read these and you can find the document, there's still a technocracy website and you can actually find their source documents.

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So, again, the whole point is that the argument that they make is that humanity is going to wipe itself out unless we contain carbon.

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And so therefore, we're going to make carbon credits the currency so that we can cap the currency.

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And then we're going to have scientists and engineers decide how those carbon credits are allocated based on your behavior.

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And Musk has been a, again, Tesla has heavily utilized energy credits, but he's also talked about energy credits explicitly.

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He's stated within the last two weeks, we'll probably replace currency with wattage.

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And then he's made the argument that Bitcoin is good because it uses a lot of energy, which I think is actually that's a separately absurd argument.

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But but these are the bullet points that he puts out every day, every day, UBI, you know, watts, energy credits, so forth.

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What you find, though, is that going on behind the scenes, because this was pushed through the WEF, we had these ESG programs and all of this that was going on a few years ago.

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So you've probably noticed that there was a big push by corporate America to push this green agenda.

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But I talk about this on my podcast a lot.

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You can go to YouTube and type in Doconomy MasterCard, D-O-C-O-N-O-M-Y.

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And this is a product that people actually buy voluntarily.

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It's a MasterCard that tracks your carbon credits or your carbon usage and then shuts off when you hit a certain carbon usage level.

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And the thing about that is in order to be able to have a card like that, you, of course, need to have a database of financial transactions and how they relate to carbon usage.

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Well, then you dig into that and you find out that MasterCard for years has had a partner program where they have over 150 global corporations, everyone from BMW to a lot of people in the travel industry and everything else.

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So they've actually put this infrastructure in place.

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You even notice you buy an airline ticket now.

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It will tell you what your CO2 usage is and it will give you a plus or minus whether or not it's eco-friendly or whatever based on whatever their system is.

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So if people are listening to this and saying, oh, this is outlandish, they'll never do that.

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They could never do that.

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They've been building the infrastructure, and they are actively doing it.

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So this isn't far-fetched at all.

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Now, the thing that's ironic about it is you had Bill Gates saying, well, we have a carbon dioxide crisis, and we're global warming and everything else.

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And then all of a sudden, he's back down from that.

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And now all of a sudden that these technocrats need data centers, the argument has to shift away from we're doing this to save the planet to something else.

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And interestingly, Elon's a great vector for this because he's able to go out there and promote wattage and energy outside of the context of an existential crisis.

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So they've been able to keep the dream alive of creating this captive system without the global warming narrative.

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which is quite fascinating. And when you dig into this, you actually find this whole global warming

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thing came out of a group called the Club of Rome, which is another one of these groups like the WEF

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and the Trilateral Commission, where they've even stated in their documents going back to the 60s or

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70s that they needed to manufacture a crisis, that the whole global warming thing was explicitly

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manufactured. And it took hold. They did a pretty good job with it. And now they don't need it.

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They're coming up with Elon's got a new pitch.

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Help me understand the replacing currency with wattage or carbon credits become the new money.

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I'm not sure.

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Like, what's your sort of breakdown on that?

395
00:34:50,072 --> 00:34:54,152
Well, I mean, how the transition would take place, I don't know.

396
00:34:54,152 --> 00:35:00,732
Well, you go from backing your currency by debt to backing your currency by carbon credits.

397
00:35:01,012 --> 00:35:04,412
And there's already a carbon credit market out there.

398
00:35:04,412 --> 00:35:17,512
And in fact, once you start digging into this, you find that there are a lot of multinational corporations and people that have been going out and buying forest land in order to kind of jump the gun on this carbon credit thing.

399
00:35:18,012 --> 00:35:22,592
So how exactly the transition would take place, I don't know.

400
00:35:22,672 --> 00:35:30,552
But I mean, obviously, for some reason, people have decided that backing a currency by government-issued debt is a good idea.

401
00:35:30,552 --> 00:35:35,632
I guess it wouldn't be too hard to sell them on carbon credits, depending on how you how you spun it.

402
00:35:35,792 --> 00:35:40,392
And what about AI for governance? And where does Sam Altman fit into this?

403
00:35:40,452 --> 00:35:47,932
Is he a real genius who understands AI or is he just someone who kind of ran an incubator and spotted some good technology?

404
00:35:48,632 --> 00:35:52,332
And he wants world domination because of this sort of opportunity.

405
00:35:52,612 --> 00:35:55,572
Who is he and where does AI fit into this?

406
00:35:55,572 --> 00:36:01,172
Yeah, he seems a little out there, I don't know, narcissistic, whatever it happens to be.

407
00:36:01,272 --> 00:36:03,212
I don't believe that he's a technologist.

408
00:36:03,372 --> 00:36:05,072
He's certainly not creating the technology.

409
00:36:05,232 --> 00:36:10,692
I think he's the front for it, and I don't think he would necessarily claim otherwise.

410
00:36:10,912 --> 00:36:21,772
But he is certainly very good at using Machiavellian tactics to push what he's trying to push and to push a big vision, which, by the way, works in Silicon Valley.

411
00:36:21,772 --> 00:36:24,072
I mean, a lot of people say to me, oh, AI is a bubble.

412
00:36:24,072 --> 00:36:28,212
and if Google's going to pay a billion and a half dollars

413
00:36:28,212 --> 00:36:30,252
or Facebook's going to pay a billion and a half dollars for a developer,

414
00:36:30,392 --> 00:36:33,492
clearly this is all going to pop at some point.

415
00:36:33,592 --> 00:36:38,832
But the truth is that the mindset in Silicon Valley is it's winner take all.

416
00:36:39,692 --> 00:36:42,332
Peter Thiel wrote about this in Zero to One,

417
00:36:42,432 --> 00:36:46,012
and so they're looking at this as, yeah, you may say the dot-com,

418
00:36:46,012 --> 00:36:50,152
there was a financial bust, but the largest, most powerful companies on the planet

419
00:36:50,152 --> 00:36:51,212
came out of that period.

420
00:36:51,212 --> 00:37:04,292
And I think the people that are investing in this are looking at this as, yeah, if we end up winning this, if we win the race to AGI, then we're going to be two orders of magnitude larger than Amazon coming out of the dot-com era.

421
00:37:05,072 --> 00:37:09,212
And so, but I think Sam Altman and Chad GPT are losing steam.

422
00:37:09,932 --> 00:37:11,672
I mean, they've issued a code red.

423
00:37:11,872 --> 00:37:13,632
I think that, I love AI.

424
00:37:13,752 --> 00:37:15,752
I mean, I use like 50 different AIs.

425
00:37:15,872 --> 00:37:17,932
I spend a lot of time on it talking about it.

426
00:37:17,932 --> 00:37:23,812
But to me, AI is kind of like it's kind of like cryptocurrency or anything else.

427
00:37:23,812 --> 00:37:28,612
You can have a big, big tech centralized version of it or you can have a decentralized private version of it.

428
00:37:28,612 --> 00:37:37,932
And certainly, certainly Sam Altman is pursuing the strategy of trying to get government contracts, government intervention.

429
00:37:38,592 --> 00:37:45,512
I think he's front running and buying orders for for hardware and trying to secure a whole bunch of contracts,

430
00:37:45,512 --> 00:37:50,392
but that put him in a position where he's almost too big to fail based on kind of the market dynamics.

431
00:37:50,532 --> 00:37:55,732
And if you look at something that should be alarming to people, one of the first big announcements that Trump made,

432
00:37:55,812 --> 00:37:58,152
because we talked about this earlier, I don't think he's the mastermind on this.

433
00:37:58,212 --> 00:37:59,692
He likes announcing big deals.

434
00:38:00,172 --> 00:38:03,172
So the first big deal he announced was this Operation Stargate.

435
00:38:03,552 --> 00:38:07,112
And Operation Stargate is Oracle and Larry Ellison.

436
00:38:07,612 --> 00:38:10,092
It's Sam Altman and OpenAI.

437
00:38:10,912 --> 00:38:11,992
It's SoftBank.

438
00:38:12,272 --> 00:38:14,472
It's, I think, some sovereign wealth funds.

439
00:38:14,472 --> 00:38:20,472
Palantir wasn't in the announcement, but Palantir is part of it because they're using the infrastructure.

440
00:38:20,712 --> 00:38:26,132
And the whole Operation Stargate thing is to build, it's kind of a national infrastructure for AI.

441
00:38:26,332 --> 00:38:34,432
But it's pretty frightful when you look at what they're actually doing in terms of building databases of healthcare information and consolidating information,

442
00:38:34,512 --> 00:38:41,612
doing a lot of things in the, quote, name of national security that are really heavy on the surveillance front.

443
00:38:41,612 --> 00:38:43,732
So that was the first big announcement that he made.

444
00:38:43,732 --> 00:38:50,572
Larry Ellison at that point said, oh, yeah, soon we're going to have individually targeted mRNA vaccines.

445
00:38:50,732 --> 00:38:55,692
I mean, this was like one of the first pitches that Ellison made coming out of that.

446
00:38:55,832 --> 00:38:58,452
And so that was just one of the big deals.

447
00:38:59,052 --> 00:39:11,872
And then from there, we have this AI crypto policy, which is, again, frightening because it's the consolidation of AI in the hands of a small number of politically connected people,

448
00:39:11,872 --> 00:39:17,272
which that doesn't go well with technology historically or anything for that matter.

449
00:39:17,632 --> 00:39:20,732
Yeah. I'm very curious about AI here.

450
00:39:21,292 --> 00:39:24,692
So there's centralized and decentralized AI.

451
00:39:25,152 --> 00:39:27,652
And I would also think it's the U.S. versus China.

452
00:39:28,012 --> 00:39:30,272
I don't think there is a U.S. versus China.

453
00:39:30,532 --> 00:39:34,512
I think that this is a – so this goes back to this whole idea of technocrats

454
00:39:34,512 --> 00:39:36,712
because technocrats are pushing for a global system.

455
00:39:37,172 --> 00:39:40,412
The funny thing is about this, with Operation Stargate,

456
00:39:40,412 --> 00:39:42,812
You know, people are like, oh, yeah, this is an American national defense.

457
00:39:42,932 --> 00:39:46,032
Look at the contracts that Oracle has, that OpenAI has.

458
00:39:46,472 --> 00:39:48,952
SoftBank is a Japanese company, right?

459
00:39:49,072 --> 00:39:59,332
So this isn't even – you can't even make the case with a straight face that these are, you know, domestic, buy-American-only companies.

460
00:39:59,332 --> 00:40:03,032
These are international companies that already do business in China.

461
00:40:03,032 --> 00:40:14,432
I think this is this has turned into. So what happens is the tech companies use the politicians and they use the manufactured division of U.S. versus China to get policy passed.

462
00:40:14,992 --> 00:40:28,272
And I put out some memes about this, but it's like, you know, get ready for the propaganda posters, which are, you know, keep your keep your temperature at 85 degrees in the summer and 60 in the winter so that we can, you know, fund these data centers to fight the Chinese.

463
00:40:28,272 --> 00:40:35,712
Or you can imagine Maha, a bunch of people on exercise bikes powering AI data centers to defeat the Chinese.

464
00:40:35,972 --> 00:40:38,932
But the funny thing is that there's a misconception.

465
00:40:39,452 --> 00:40:45,412
You know, when I grew up in the 80s, the mindset was always and people would say, you better finish your plate.

466
00:40:45,532 --> 00:40:46,952
There are starving people in China.

467
00:40:47,192 --> 00:40:50,572
This was like this is like one of the, I guess, memes back in the day.

468
00:40:50,572 --> 00:40:58,512
And the presentation was that everybody in China is some kind of dirt poor, illiterate person that can only afford to eat rice.

469
00:40:58,592 --> 00:41:01,032
This is literally kind of the stereotype of it.

470
00:41:01,252 --> 00:41:11,312
China leads the United States in 57 out of 64 technology categories, including robotics, including quantum computing, on and on and on down the list.

471
00:41:11,452 --> 00:41:15,412
But we don't see Chinese products and services.

472
00:41:15,692 --> 00:41:18,312
Like it's not part of what comes up in our feed.

473
00:41:18,312 --> 00:41:20,352
I mean, it's censored in effect.

474
00:41:20,572 --> 00:41:24,712
And so so we have this idea that we're the leader already.

475
00:41:24,712 --> 00:41:28,472
Now, by the way, we know Musk ripped off WeChat.

476
00:41:28,812 --> 00:41:31,392
Well, then I went on to Grok, of all things, and I said, well, hey,

477
00:41:31,392 --> 00:41:34,512
let's look at other things, reusable rockets, Neuralink and everything else.

478
00:41:34,512 --> 00:41:47,178
I beginning to think that he rips off more than just X from China And so it not even an ideological thing anymore I think it would be hard to make the case that the U is much more capitalistic than China

479
00:41:47,258 --> 00:41:49,498
I mean, these are businesses like Alibaba and so forth.

480
00:41:49,518 --> 00:41:53,898
It's not the Communist Party running the AI that they're doing.

481
00:41:54,178 --> 00:41:59,398
But even in the AI realm, what's fascinating about it is that the U.S. companies,

482
00:41:59,998 --> 00:42:03,478
Anthropik, Rock, everything else, their stuff is closed source.

483
00:42:03,478 --> 00:42:07,398
and China is putting out open source AI.

484
00:42:07,598 --> 00:42:10,058
I think China is probably going to catch up

485
00:42:10,058 --> 00:42:13,898
and probably overtake the US pretty soon in AI.

486
00:42:14,038 --> 00:42:16,238
They've released some models just in the last week

487
00:42:16,238 --> 00:42:21,038
that are right on par with ChatGPT and Grok

488
00:42:21,038 --> 00:42:24,358
that can do all kinds of things and they use less energy.

489
00:42:24,658 --> 00:42:26,698
So, but I don't think it's about US versus China.

490
00:42:26,818 --> 00:42:30,118
I think US versus China is used as the pretext

491
00:42:30,118 --> 00:42:33,178
by the AI companies to get financial support

492
00:42:33,178 --> 00:43:01,898
from the government.

493
00:43:03,178 --> 00:43:08,738
When you talk to Grok and you ask it about Neuralink, whatever, does it pander to you?

494
00:43:09,138 --> 00:43:10,198
Does it lie to you?

495
00:43:10,598 --> 00:43:11,378
Does it know everything?

496
00:43:11,778 --> 00:43:13,458
It doesn't know everything.

497
00:43:14,018 --> 00:43:20,458
You know, the thing that I like to say about these centralized AI models is it's garbage in, garbage out.

498
00:43:20,518 --> 00:43:23,118
A lot of them are trained on junk data.

499
00:43:23,118 --> 00:43:26,898
I mean, if you look at ChatGPT and everything else, they're like trained on the general web.

500
00:43:27,018 --> 00:43:27,918
They're trained on Reddit.

501
00:43:27,918 --> 00:43:37,318
I mean, even Anthropica said, yeah, well, this thing is exhibiting personality traits that are maybe not as high integrity as you might look for.

502
00:43:37,438 --> 00:43:39,918
And I even said, well, yeah, the thing's kind of trained on Reddit.

503
00:43:40,678 --> 00:43:46,658
I think that Grok is trained on a broader data set than the others.

504
00:43:46,918 --> 00:43:47,938
So is it lying?

505
00:43:48,058 --> 00:43:53,138
I don't know necessarily that it's explicitly lying, but the question is, what is it trained on?

506
00:43:53,138 --> 00:44:02,618
Now, part of why Elon bought Twitter was to be able to use the information that people put into Twitter to help feed and train the AI.

507
00:44:02,818 --> 00:44:08,698
The thing that I use AI for is I've been compiling my own data sources.

508
00:44:08,918 --> 00:44:15,398
So I just, you know, I have this, I can't move the camera, but you have a 260 terabyte RAID drive system.

509
00:44:15,398 --> 00:44:23,098
And, you know, I've gotten to the point where it's like, okay, I want to have my own primary source material and use an AI to access that material directly.

510
00:44:23,138 --> 00:44:25,938
and that this is a way to get around these hallucinations.

511
00:44:26,398 --> 00:44:27,138
So I don't know.

512
00:44:27,318 --> 00:44:32,758
I have found that the information seems to be pretty mainstream.

513
00:44:33,378 --> 00:44:35,978
I have found that, in particular, by the way,

514
00:44:36,318 --> 00:44:37,638
on this issue of technocracy,

515
00:44:37,718 --> 00:44:40,438
this technocracy movement is well-documented.

516
00:44:40,718 --> 00:44:42,938
I mean, this isn't a conspiracy theory.

517
00:44:43,058 --> 00:44:45,818
There's all kinds of primary source materials

518
00:44:45,818 --> 00:44:47,858
and books and interviews and all these other things,

519
00:44:47,918 --> 00:44:50,798
but they've been hard to find through AI.

520
00:44:50,798 --> 00:45:01,838
So I put together a site called technocracyatlas.com where there's a chatbot, but you can actually interact with the primary source material, which I have compiled.

521
00:45:02,078 --> 00:45:03,818
And I've added other material to it.

522
00:45:03,858 --> 00:45:06,338
I've added all of the Epstein files that have been released.

523
00:45:06,458 --> 00:45:08,218
I'll add more of that.

524
00:45:08,898 --> 00:45:11,018
There's something like, I don't know how many.

525
00:45:11,638 --> 00:45:12,558
Let me see what I'm up to now.

526
00:45:12,638 --> 00:45:14,778
I'm constantly adding more materials.

527
00:45:14,778 --> 00:45:24,898
So now I found that Grok, somebody actually, so I wrote a series of tweets about Elon that were basically labeling him a technocrat.

528
00:45:24,918 --> 00:45:26,438
And somebody said, Grok, is this true?

529
00:45:26,678 --> 00:45:29,638
And then Grok responded, you know, oh, absolutely not.

530
00:45:29,678 --> 00:45:30,578
He's not a technocrat.

531
00:45:30,598 --> 00:45:34,718
And so then I asked some questions like, oh, well, does he believe in an energy credit based system, blah, blah, blah.

532
00:45:34,798 --> 00:45:35,638
And it wouldn't respond.

533
00:45:35,798 --> 00:45:41,358
Grok will not respond to me most of the time if I flag it in a post, which I find to be interesting.

534
00:45:41,358 --> 00:45:42,298
What do you think that's about?

535
00:45:42,298 --> 00:45:43,918
How did it choose who to answer?

536
00:45:44,138 --> 00:45:47,718
And why do you get this thing where it's like, Grok, is this true?

537
00:45:47,758 --> 00:45:48,938
And it's like, oh, you're right.

538
00:45:48,998 --> 00:45:51,098
That picture doesn't have so-and-so in it.

539
00:45:51,138 --> 00:45:52,378
It's actually, you're right.

540
00:45:52,438 --> 00:45:53,098
It's this person.

541
00:45:53,178 --> 00:45:54,418
Thank you for pointing that out.

542
00:45:54,938 --> 00:45:58,678
And then does it connect dots across all those instances and learn?

543
00:45:58,678 --> 00:46:00,578
You know, I don't know to what degree.

544
00:46:00,758 --> 00:46:06,178
I give it some leeway just in the fact that, you know, they're training it and it's learning.

545
00:46:06,318 --> 00:46:12,218
So I'm not going to, if it gives a wrong response, it isn't necessarily indication that it's intentionally programmed.

546
00:46:12,298 --> 00:46:18,658
to lie. But I do think that, you know, when Elon said freedom of reach, not freedom of speech,

547
00:46:18,698 --> 00:46:24,078
remember that shortly thereafter this, there was a whole issue on H-1B visas, and he didn't like

548
00:46:24,078 --> 00:46:27,838
what certain people were saying. And all of a sudden, he started canceling a bunch of accounts

549
00:46:27,838 --> 00:46:32,678
and then changed the terms of service to X to basically say that he could, you know, kick people

550
00:46:32,678 --> 00:46:39,118
off the platform at his discretion, right? And this is not compatible with freedom of speech or

551
00:46:39,118 --> 00:46:44,638
freedom of reach. And then he's done that. Even his, some of the women that have had his kids

552
00:46:44,638 --> 00:46:48,978
started coming out saying things that were negative or saying, hey, where are you? Why aren't you

553
00:46:48,978 --> 00:46:53,358
taking care of this? And they started getting shadow banned. So we know he selectively shadow

554
00:46:53,358 --> 00:47:00,358
bans. And we know that he has given himself the legal out to be able to do that through the terms

555
00:47:00,358 --> 00:47:05,398
of service. So, and I want to say something else about this too, because again, there are a lot of

556
00:47:05,398 --> 00:47:08,718
people that believe he's a hero. And when the Trump administration thing happened, there was

557
00:47:08,718 --> 00:47:14,118
this whole of the Avengers are coming in, right? It's Vivek and it's Trump and it's Tulsi Gabbard

558
00:47:14,118 --> 00:47:18,458
and everything else. And, you know, I was at the time, I'm like, these guys are hoping for white

559
00:47:18,458 --> 00:47:23,138
night politicians that we'll see how it works out for you. But, but he, he keeps on getting presented

560
00:47:23,138 --> 00:47:28,598
in this way, this kind of Iron Man image and everything else. And he's for free speech,

561
00:47:28,738 --> 00:47:35,378
absolutely for free speech. There's a funny story about open AI. So, um, Elon sued open AI and he

562
00:47:35,378 --> 00:47:40,898
made this whole big thing about, well, he was worried about AI early on about where it could go.

563
00:47:40,978 --> 00:47:45,418
But then he decided that, you know, the best way to make sure it doesn't go in this dystopian,

564
00:47:45,618 --> 00:47:50,438
this dystopian path is if he gets involved and he brings integrity to the process essentially.

565
00:47:50,438 --> 00:47:57,818
And, but his claim was that open AI was always intended to be open source and to be a nonprofit.

566
00:47:58,038 --> 00:48:02,018
Well, then when the discovery came out and the legal documents went back and forth,

567
00:48:02,018 --> 00:48:06,238
turns out there were emails where he was essentially trying to take open AI for himself

568
00:48:06,238 --> 00:48:10,138
and fold it into Tesla. And I think it's important that people know this, because if you have this

569
00:48:10,138 --> 00:48:13,758
sense that he always tells the truth and he's fighting for free speech, he's blatantly,

570
00:48:14,438 --> 00:48:20,238
clearly lied. And it's come out in discovery on some of these important issues. So he's,

571
00:48:20,238 --> 00:48:26,098
he is pushing a, he's pushing an ideological agenda that I don't think most people would

572
00:48:26,098 --> 00:48:31,318
agree with if they understood what it was. But I also don't think most people understand what it is.

573
00:48:31,318 --> 00:48:33,298
and I don't think they've ever heard of technocracy.

574
00:48:33,538 --> 00:48:37,818
I mean, he seems to be extremely subversive and duplicitous.

575
00:48:37,818 --> 00:48:41,198
I don't know why he's the most seen or heard person on his own platform.

576
00:48:41,498 --> 00:48:47,518
I don't know how he has the time to meme and be reply guys so much

577
00:48:47,518 --> 00:48:51,478
if he's running five or six of the most important companies

578
00:48:51,478 --> 00:48:53,778
that affect national security agenda.

579
00:48:54,198 --> 00:48:55,998
I don't know how he can get away with...

580
00:48:55,998 --> 00:48:59,238
I don't know where his lawyers are when he's smoking pot on Joe Rogan,

581
00:48:59,238 --> 00:49:08,378
which leads to drug testing for his engineers when he quips about kids dying in tunnels in Thailand

582
00:49:08,378 --> 00:49:13,778
or, you know, promotes what I think is shit coins or different things.

583
00:49:13,778 --> 00:49:18,698
And, you know, you see him for Halloween, he dresses up as the devil.

584
00:49:19,258 --> 00:49:21,998
You hear that everything's fake in his life, it seems like.

585
00:49:22,178 --> 00:49:26,878
Even the mothers of his children, I don't think he fornicates with them.

586
00:49:26,878 --> 00:49:30,138
I think this is, it seems like it's all in court legal documents.

587
00:49:30,258 --> 00:49:31,118
It's all through in vitro.

588
00:49:31,258 --> 00:49:32,598
So it's not even real relationships.

589
00:49:32,818 --> 00:49:35,198
How do you have time to run five or six companies?

590
00:49:35,298 --> 00:49:36,898
I could barely run one.

591
00:49:37,638 --> 00:49:38,618
You know, it's.

592
00:49:39,018 --> 00:49:43,598
Well, don't forget, he's the world champion at whatever video game it is that he's playing too.

593
00:49:43,738 --> 00:49:44,038
Right.

594
00:49:44,438 --> 00:49:53,158
So it just seems like he's just a useful tool for the state in so many ways you would think, or seems my hypothesis is that.

595
00:49:53,298 --> 00:49:55,118
And so look at all these big companies.

596
00:49:55,118 --> 00:50:06,818
Do you think IBM just became like Microsoft, you know, the sort of transfer of power through generations around sort of surveillance and computers and network surveillance and computation?

597
00:50:08,038 --> 00:50:11,018
They just moved from sort of bad name to a different name.

598
00:50:11,558 --> 00:50:13,818
Now, maybe Palantir is the new Microsoft.

599
00:50:14,458 --> 00:50:14,818
Well, yeah.

600
00:50:14,898 --> 00:50:15,958
And then let's look at Oracle.

601
00:50:16,118 --> 00:50:21,238
I mean, what I've been surprised by this year is, I mean, Larry Ellison's always been, you know, a rich guy.

602
00:50:21,238 --> 00:50:24,658
But, you know, he all of a sudden is now a dominant player.

603
00:50:24,658 --> 00:50:28,138
And at some point this year, for a very brief period of time, I think he was the richest man in the world.

604
00:50:28,298 --> 00:50:30,558
And stock jumped based on something or other.

605
00:50:30,978 --> 00:50:32,278
But people don't know the story of Oracle.

606
00:50:32,398 --> 00:50:33,958
Oracle's first customer was the CIA.

607
00:50:34,558 --> 00:50:37,978
Oracle actually works – powers the Federal Reserve.

608
00:50:38,218 --> 00:50:40,818
And people say, well, we don't want to have a central bank digital currency.

609
00:50:40,938 --> 00:50:45,018
The government writes checks out of an account in the Federal Reserve that's run by Oracle.

610
00:50:45,158 --> 00:50:48,138
I mean it's kind of a central bank digital currency in a way.

611
00:50:48,398 --> 00:50:51,098
But Oracle is all over the surveillance state.

612
00:50:51,098 --> 00:50:55,078
I mean, I've even heard people recently claim that Ellison's like the shadow president.

613
00:50:55,558 --> 00:50:57,558
So, yeah, these big tech companies.

614
00:50:58,178 --> 00:51:09,538
And, you know, and I look back on this, you know, Google, you know, whenever what was their do no evil or whatever their thing was early on, you know, at the time it felt like that.

615
00:51:09,618 --> 00:51:11,818
I remember using search engines before Google.

616
00:51:11,918 --> 00:51:14,658
I remember using AltaVista and InfoSeek and all these other things.

617
00:51:14,678 --> 00:51:17,558
And then Google came around and there was no censorship.

618
00:51:17,858 --> 00:51:19,318
I mean, the search engine just worked.

619
00:51:19,318 --> 00:51:24,898
Now it's like you can get whatever the public health policy decides should be on the first two pages.

620
00:51:25,758 --> 00:51:27,938
And then they obviously took away that tagline.

621
00:51:28,078 --> 00:51:33,318
They brought in Eric Schmidt, and then it turned into this thing where they're now involved with the censorship industrial complex.

622
00:51:34,018 --> 00:51:45,678
And so there are some people that will say, well, hey, these things are all hatched out of Langley and the CIA, and the whole idea of two guys in a garage is fake to begin with.

623
00:51:46,278 --> 00:51:47,418
I don't know if that's true.

624
00:51:47,418 --> 00:52:00,018
I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but I do think that at a certain point in time, when something becomes successful, then the government comes in and kind of infiltrates the project and morphs it to their end.

625
00:52:00,178 --> 00:52:05,758
And recently I just learned that there's a guy, I can't remember his name, but he's at In-Q-Tel.

626
00:52:06,338 --> 00:52:16,218
And he may even be the guy, if you're looking at who the power players are in this technocracy, he's heavily influential behind Peter Thiel and behind Palantir.

627
00:52:16,218 --> 00:52:29,058
So he was involved in the investment in Palantir, but used a lot of his connections because of his involvement with In-Q-Tel and the CIA to actually help kickstart and accelerate Palantir.

628
00:52:29,678 --> 00:52:32,178
So, yeah, clearly these things get co-opted.

629
00:52:32,338 --> 00:52:45,178
And if you're a technical founder and you're like, hey, I'm just working on this cool thing, and then all of a sudden it's worth a lot of money, and you don't know anything about the business side of it or the finance side of it, then it's pretty easy for these vultures to come in and kind of restructure things.

630
00:52:45,558 --> 00:52:48,338
I remember when Google said, do no evil.

631
00:52:48,658 --> 00:52:50,418
I think I really liked Google in the beginning.

632
00:52:50,578 --> 00:52:51,638
It did seem like the script.

633
00:52:51,758 --> 00:52:53,578
But then it came out to do no evil.

634
00:52:54,098 --> 00:52:59,258
I was like, whoa, like if you guys got to say it, what choices are you making right now?

635
00:52:59,358 --> 00:53:03,178
And when you guys aren't around, this is impossible to hold up now.

636
00:53:03,238 --> 00:53:05,338
You guys are kind of letting the cat out of the bag, I felt like.

637
00:53:05,338 --> 00:53:10,198
Do you think AI is sort of alive or sentient or on its way?

638
00:53:10,198 --> 00:53:14,418
is there is there you know there was i was watching this uh i watched these bullshit

639
00:53:14,418 --> 00:53:18,398
popcorn movies with my son he's really we're going through the marvel universe and so we're

640
00:53:18,398 --> 00:53:22,958
really enjoying it together you know personally father son but wasn't crazy when he wanted to

641
00:53:22,958 --> 00:53:28,618
start stuff anyway i'm watching iron man 2 and i don't know some ai escapes and it sort of like

642
00:53:28,618 --> 00:53:34,558
expresses itself as a humanoid robot and it's scouring the earth and trying to figure out how

643
00:53:34,558 --> 00:53:37,538
to survive, thrive, and take over.

644
00:53:38,178 --> 00:53:40,718
And it was like this, like the cat's out of the bag moment.

645
00:53:41,378 --> 00:53:46,158
And I don't know how many of these AI projects are happening around the world where they

646
00:53:46,158 --> 00:53:51,618
put together all this computation, run these sort of like dry runs, train it, whip it up,

647
00:53:51,638 --> 00:53:52,538
and then unleash it.

648
00:53:52,778 --> 00:53:57,278
I don't know how many organizations or states have the ability to put that together.

649
00:53:57,818 --> 00:53:59,378
How many people are doing this offline?

650
00:53:59,478 --> 00:54:02,218
How many states are doing this in ways that they don't even tell us about?

651
00:54:02,218 --> 00:54:08,518
is this is is my fear warranted here at all like what what do you think well i mean is it alive is

652
00:54:08,518 --> 00:54:12,538
it conscious i mean this is a big question right what is the nature of consciousness itself i think

653
00:54:12,538 --> 00:54:15,618
one of the problems is that when you look at the people that are running these big tech companies

654
00:54:15,618 --> 00:54:20,338
they seem to think that they already know what consciousness is and that and that they're you

655
00:54:20,338 --> 00:54:24,258
know kind of pushing beyond it i don't think we know i think we should be taking more of a curious

656
00:54:24,258 --> 00:54:30,058
approach of of trying to understand who we are and what the nature of reality is before we go

657
00:54:30,058 --> 00:54:37,058
off and try to play God based on what we think it is and stop actually questioning the fundamental

658
00:54:37,058 --> 00:54:42,038
nature of these things. Sam Altman does seem like the kind of guy that is certainly willing to

659
00:54:42,038 --> 00:54:46,698
be Machiavellian and push things, push the envelope. And this is why he's in this class

660
00:54:46,698 --> 00:54:54,538
action lawsuit over the ChadGPT-04 model, where I guess they tweaked the way that it responded and

661
00:54:54,538 --> 00:54:58,718
a bunch of people were kind of forming a relationship with the AI and then ended up,

662
00:54:58,718 --> 00:55:03,298
you know, being convinced to kill themselves and do other harmful things.

663
00:55:03,938 --> 00:55:06,878
So I think it depends on the person behind it.

664
00:55:06,878 --> 00:55:08,718
But if you look at the tech companies behind it,

665
00:55:09,258 --> 00:55:13,098
I wouldn't say that we necessarily have a lot of ethical players that are pushing this.

666
00:55:13,098 --> 00:55:16,698
One thing I was interested to learn, which I just learned last week,

667
00:55:16,758 --> 00:55:20,598
is that Peter Thiel put up some of the seed funding for DeepMind,

668
00:55:20,698 --> 00:55:22,278
which is essentially Google's AI.

669
00:55:22,758 --> 00:55:27,978
So if you actually look at who seeded these bigger AI models, it's the same players.

670
00:55:27,978 --> 00:55:32,858
It's the same kind of, you know, Elon put up the money for OpenAI and then Grok and then Peter Thiel

671
00:55:32,904 --> 00:55:38,224
put up the money for Google. Anthropic had money from Sam Bankman Freed, and they have kind of this

672
00:55:38,224 --> 00:55:48,124
effective altruism vibe to it. They definitely have an ideological balance. And so I don't think

673
00:55:48,124 --> 00:55:52,684
we know enough about the nature of consciousness. So I can't answer whether or not they're going to

674
00:55:52,684 --> 00:55:56,644
be able to recreate it. Although when you look at all these big data centers, I mean, our brains use

675
00:55:56,644 --> 00:56:01,464
like whatever, 20 watts, and all of these data centers still can't match what we're doing. So

676
00:56:01,464 --> 00:56:06,204
somehow I feel like whatever it is that we think that we're modeling off of how we are, we haven't

677
00:56:06,204 --> 00:56:12,564
exactly hit the nail on the head. So, you know, I'm somewhat skeptical, but I do know that there's

678
00:56:12,564 --> 00:56:16,384
a big movement now in Silicon Valley. I can't remember the names, but there's some groups that

679
00:56:16,384 --> 00:56:21,744
are actually forming religions around this, that they actually believe that we need to create a new

680
00:56:21,744 --> 00:56:27,744
AI-based religion. There are a couple of these organizations, and Peter Thiel even, I've learned

681
00:56:27,744 --> 00:56:32,704
recently sponsors a bunch of kind of churches and religious organizations in Silicon Valley.

682
00:56:33,184 --> 00:56:38,664
And Burning Man itself, there's a whole kind of, you know, twisting and melding. There's a,

683
00:56:38,664 --> 00:56:43,624
what's it called? And insulin center or something like that. There's a retreat that started in the,

684
00:56:43,784 --> 00:56:47,904
maybe the sixties in Silicon Valley that started out doing yoga and everything else. And now it's

685
00:56:47,904 --> 00:56:55,044
a place where people go, where executives from Silicon Valley go basically to be deprogrammed

686
00:56:55,044 --> 00:57:00,104
or to basically use these meditation techniques to convince themselves that what they're doing is not evil.

687
00:57:00,104 --> 00:57:11,464
And this is then a pipeline to Burning Man, which itself is kind of arguably creating a new technocratic form of religion.

688
00:57:11,824 --> 00:57:16,544
So the implications of this could be pretty frightening.

689
00:57:17,204 --> 00:57:21,584
And you've heard Yuval Noah Harari on the other side also say the same thing.

690
00:57:21,644 --> 00:57:23,924
He said we need to make a new religion.

691
00:57:23,924 --> 00:57:27,804
and he's basically said the era of free will is over.

692
00:57:28,104 --> 00:57:30,904
So you have some people that are actually actively pushing for this.

693
00:57:30,904 --> 00:57:34,944
I think it would make sense for people to have a little more humility

694
00:57:34,944 --> 00:57:38,844
and maybe a little more curiosity about understanding the nature of reality

695
00:57:38,844 --> 00:57:41,724
before moving directly into God mode.

696
00:57:42,784 --> 00:57:42,924
Right.

697
00:57:43,904 --> 00:57:48,764
Burning Man, my take there was when I moved to San Francisco in 2004,

698
00:57:49,624 --> 00:57:53,604
my roommate or housemate, he went to Burning Man every year.

699
00:57:53,924 --> 00:57:59,004
And he would spend all year working on the Burning Man project.

700
00:57:59,164 --> 00:58:01,564
So him and his Burning Man camp would get together.

701
00:58:02,044 --> 00:58:06,564
They'd have to try to pre-plan, figure out what they're going to give out for free and use for currency when they're there.

702
00:58:06,564 --> 00:58:19,704
From certain angles, it seemed like super cool, kind of this like modern, almost like libertarian, free will, free state meets Woodstock.

703
00:58:19,904 --> 00:58:21,724
But then I started looking back on it.

704
00:58:21,724 --> 00:58:28,884
And I'm like, wow, like, and even not looking back on it now, but I'm saying then they always sort of schedule it during the Republican National Convention.

705
00:58:29,524 --> 00:58:38,424
You take your most extreme activists and revolutionary people in the country and you fixate them this on this sort of two week project that they get to live.

706
00:58:38,524 --> 00:58:40,644
And it's kind of takes them out of their local communities.

707
00:58:41,124 --> 00:58:42,544
I didn't see it as this.

708
00:58:42,624 --> 00:58:48,024
Now, now looking back now, I see it as this almost like satanic ritual that's being performed again.

709
00:58:48,024 --> 00:58:58,924
And I don't know if these people are being subverted and they don't know they're, you know, but it's had these cool things where I didn't understand money and currency then in terms of at its first principles.

710
00:58:58,924 --> 00:59:03,504
But it seemed like, OK, they're trying to get away with sort of fiat and barter with each other.

711
00:59:03,624 --> 00:59:05,344
Really, you know, interesting there.

712
00:59:05,664 --> 00:59:09,824
What do you how do you put COVID and MRA, MRNA vaccines and all?

713
00:59:09,824 --> 00:59:14,984
I mean, I looked at, you know, I mean, my wife and I weren't surprised about COVID itself.

714
00:59:14,984 --> 00:59:19,204
I mean, my wife has been part of the medical freedom community, was fighting for vaccination

715
00:59:19,204 --> 00:59:24,644
choices as far back as 2006, but it's part of the control system.

716
00:59:24,804 --> 00:59:30,124
Public health is a big part of the technocracy, the control over healthcare and your decisions.

717
00:59:30,204 --> 00:59:34,424
And actually, if you look at public health and you look at how much power public health

718
00:59:34,424 --> 00:59:39,664
has in terms of the ability to issue emergency orders and the ability to do things under

719
00:59:39,664 --> 00:59:43,944
extreme conditions, it's a big part of the control system.

720
00:59:43,944 --> 00:59:48,724
So I don't view the COVID thing as being an isolated thing.

721
00:59:48,804 --> 00:59:52,704
I view the COVID thing as something that accelerates the technocracy.

722
00:59:52,804 --> 00:59:57,744
Because if you look at what happened, I mean, we got the enhanced surveillance state.

723
00:59:57,844 --> 01:00:02,664
In a way, we started to condition people towards UBI, right, by giving people stimulus checks.

724
01:00:03,164 --> 01:00:10,124
We implemented things like contact tracing down to the point where, you know, you've got your cell phone and you're going to get an updated terms of service.

725
01:00:10,124 --> 01:00:14,344
because now Apple and Google are going to start tracking where you are in relation to other people.

726
01:00:15,124 --> 01:00:17,744
The Federal Reserve got rid of the reserve requirements,

727
01:00:17,844 --> 01:00:21,204
so banks are no longer required to hold 10% of customer deposits in reserves.

728
01:00:21,204 --> 01:00:26,184
So all of it, it was just one more step towards a tighter surveillance state

729
01:00:26,184 --> 01:00:30,484
and one more step towards authoritarian control.

730
01:00:30,484 --> 01:00:52,524
And in terms of, I mean, in terms of psyops, I kind of see Butler sort of as a sort of a push or nod to get Trump into office so they could do the things you're talking about and get sort of, I think, an acceleration on a lot of things that the right would never have accepted from sort of Hillary or Biden or Kamala.

731
01:00:52,704 --> 01:00:57,064
So how is the Genius Act a backdoor CBDC or something worse?

732
01:00:57,064 --> 01:01:01,884
So there are a few aspects to this.

733
01:01:02,104 --> 01:01:04,304
So first of all, I'm never going to defend the central bank.

734
01:01:04,364 --> 01:01:09,444
So I don't want to ever come off as being pro Federal Reserve in any way, shape or form.

735
01:01:09,524 --> 01:01:12,684
It's a private cartel that prints money out of thin air.

736
01:01:12,744 --> 01:01:13,464
It shouldn't exist.

737
01:01:13,704 --> 01:01:23,044
However, the thing that people don't understand about our current financial system is it's already almost entirely digital and it's already heavily surveilled.

738
01:01:23,184 --> 01:01:24,244
I wrote an article about this.

739
01:01:24,244 --> 01:01:29,024
There are 13 different programs that are involved in the surveillance of our money.

740
01:01:29,624 --> 01:01:39,184
Anything from bulk NSA data collection to the IRS, you know, working with banks using AI.

741
01:01:39,384 --> 01:01:44,964
But the original genesis of financial surveillance started in 1970 with the Bank Secrecy Act.

742
01:01:45,064 --> 01:01:47,144
So this is why we have all of the KYC.

743
01:01:47,244 --> 01:01:48,684
This is why we have the Know Your Customer.

744
01:01:48,824 --> 01:01:52,564
This is why you have to give all of this information when you set up a bank account.

745
01:01:52,564 --> 01:01:57,044
And then increasingly, if you set up a bank account, you know, it's almost like you're being interviewed.

746
01:01:57,304 --> 01:02:03,844
But they try to make it like, oh, yeah, I'm being, you know, the banker's being friendly, asking you about what you like to do, what you're doing for work and so forth.

747
01:02:03,884 --> 01:02:10,124
This is part of their process for filling out paperwork and filling out forms as part of the Bank Secrecy Act from 1970.

748
01:02:10,384 --> 01:02:14,024
So and that has only gotten worse, this data collection.

749
01:02:14,144 --> 01:02:20,444
And obviously, we've seen the whole Operation Choke Point and everything that goes along with that.

750
01:02:20,444 --> 01:02:22,924
and then we have the Patriot Act.

751
01:02:23,204 --> 01:02:24,944
And so all of these things that I'm describing

752
01:02:24,944 --> 01:02:26,644
were not pushed by the Federal Reserve.

753
01:02:26,884 --> 01:02:28,964
All of the financial surveillance that goes on

754
01:02:28,964 --> 01:02:31,584
in the system today comes from government,

755
01:02:31,804 --> 01:02:33,464
mostly Congress, but in some cases,

756
01:02:33,964 --> 01:02:37,044
the executive branch, not the Federal Reserve.

757
01:02:37,164 --> 01:02:40,124
So when people are worried about CBDCs,

758
01:02:40,184 --> 01:02:42,724
they're worried about their money being programmed,

759
01:02:42,904 --> 01:02:44,484
they're worried about their money being tracked,

760
01:02:44,704 --> 01:02:46,684
and they're worried about their money being censored.

761
01:02:46,964 --> 01:02:48,104
Well, I've got bad news for you.

762
01:02:48,164 --> 01:02:49,624
That already happens today,

763
01:02:49,624 --> 01:02:52,724
And it's not largely because of the Federal Reserve.

764
01:02:52,884 --> 01:02:53,744
It's because of Congress.

765
01:02:54,044 --> 01:03:00,324
So they're out pushing this genius act saying, we don't want to get the Federal Reserve, you know, this kind of power.

766
01:03:00,444 --> 01:03:01,404
We're going to get out ahead of this.

767
01:03:01,484 --> 01:03:02,364
And what did they do instead?

768
01:03:02,564 --> 01:03:06,744
They took private stable coins, Tether and USDC and whatever.

769
01:03:07,344 --> 01:03:11,824
Last year, there was $27 trillion worth of stable coin transactions.

770
01:03:11,824 --> 01:03:21,764
So they took a private solution with 27 and they put it under the control of Congress, of the very entity that's responsible for financial surveillance.

771
01:03:22,104 --> 01:03:25,744
And then they also gave the Federal Reserve oversight on top of that.

772
01:03:26,204 --> 01:03:35,524
If you had tried to roll out, how long would it take to get $27 trillion in annual transaction volume if you attempted to push a central CBDC?

773
01:03:35,804 --> 01:03:37,644
There would be all kinds of pushback.

774
01:03:37,744 --> 01:03:41,004
So now people, their guard is down like, oh, well, we dodged a bullet.

775
01:03:41,004 --> 01:03:51,384
You didn't dodge a bullet. Your USDC and Tether can be tracked. And now, based on the way the law is written, I mean, they have influence over the blockchains that issue these things.

776
01:03:51,464 --> 01:03:59,444
If there's an emergency, Congress can meet and say, hey, well, you know, if you're a stablecoin issuer, you know, you have to put in this programmability feature.

777
01:03:59,564 --> 01:04:03,464
You have to do this or you have to do that. It's now under their control.

778
01:04:03,544 --> 01:04:09,704
So we get CBDC level surveillance, but it's just that it's coming from Congress and not the Federal Reserve.

779
01:04:09,704 --> 01:04:16,344
That's not a win. The Federal Reserve is not the one that has been going out and doing a lot of these bad things.

780
01:04:16,484 --> 01:04:23,964
It's also commercial banks, by the way. I will say separately, a lot of the debanking that's gone on didn't have anything to do with the Federal Reserve or Congress.

781
01:04:24,324 --> 01:04:32,984
This was woke policies predominantly by the big four banks where they were choosing to censor people over political speech and other things.

782
01:04:32,984 --> 01:04:35,224
That wasn't even driven by Congress.

783
01:04:35,484 --> 01:04:41,704
But the point is that the Federal Reserve isn't necessarily the ultimate bad guy when it comes to financial surveillance.

784
01:04:41,864 --> 01:04:44,164
They're awful for a whole variety of reasons.

785
01:04:44,724 --> 01:04:47,784
Namely, they're completely unnecessary and it's a scam.

786
01:04:48,424 --> 01:04:54,084
But the surveillance aspect, which is what people don't like about CBDCs, we now have applied to stablecoins.

787
01:04:54,524 --> 01:05:00,304
And then it gets worse because one of the main reasons the Trump administration pushed it is

788
01:05:00,304 --> 01:05:07,104
looking at the economic situation we have right now, $38 trillion worth of debt. And it's not like

789
01:05:07,104 --> 01:05:11,444
we're cutting spending. We passed this one big, beautiful bill, and now we're adding a trillion

790
01:05:11,444 --> 01:05:16,504
and a half dollars a year in additional debt. Well, guess what? Nobody wants to buy our treasuries.

791
01:05:16,704 --> 01:05:20,984
China and Japan are our two largest holders of treasuries. And they're looking at this saying,

792
01:05:21,064 --> 01:05:24,104
you know, Japan's not in a position to do it and China doesn't want to do it.

793
01:05:24,504 --> 01:05:28,484
So how are we going to continue to fund this debt? Well, then they came up with this great

794
01:05:28,484 --> 01:05:33,324
idea. Well, hey, let's take, crypto's popular, stable coins are popular, let's put it under our

795
01:05:33,324 --> 01:05:39,444
control so that we can track it. But then let's require that these stable coins be backed by U.S.

796
01:05:39,544 --> 01:05:43,444
treasuries. And so our treasury secretary, Bessent, has estimated that we're going to be able to sell

797
01:05:43,444 --> 01:05:49,364
at least $2 trillion in treasuries. So we're going to be able to fund $2 trillion in additional wars

798
01:05:49,364 --> 01:05:55,564
and additional tyranny all over the world through this Genius Act. So in the end, we get CBDC level

799
01:05:55,564 --> 01:06:00,624
surveillance, and we're funding more government debt. That is what we get out of the Genius Act.

800
01:06:01,064 --> 01:06:06,064
And this is all done wrapped in the American flag with patriotism and everything else. And so people

801
01:06:06,064 --> 01:06:10,284
are looking at this saying, oh, well, now this is great. It's crypto adoption. I mean, you know,

802
01:06:10,284 --> 01:06:14,344
again, my view on this is the whole point of crypto was for people to be able to engage in

803
01:06:14,344 --> 01:06:18,684
transactions without central banks, without government. And now we're in a situation where

804
01:06:18,684 --> 01:06:24,804
we've taken fiat, which is a disaster, and then we've tokenized it and added surveillance to it.

805
01:06:24,804 --> 01:06:28,404
That's kind of the opposite of what crypto is supposed to be.

806
01:06:28,764 --> 01:06:31,704
But it's nuanced and they call it the Genius Act.

807
01:06:31,884 --> 01:06:35,544
I mean, people should know by now, I guess they don't because they still vote a lot,

808
01:06:35,924 --> 01:06:40,224
but they should know that the name of the bill is usually the opposite of what it means.

809
01:06:40,344 --> 01:06:41,564
Something just happened today.

810
01:06:41,844 --> 01:06:42,804
So then they did this thing.

811
01:06:42,804 --> 01:06:43,824
This drove me nuts.

812
01:06:43,824 --> 01:06:55,334
They passed this Anti Surveillance Act which says the US will not pursue a CBDC won research a CBDC All this it a show bill It kind of meaningless

813
01:06:55,494 --> 01:07:00,674
But I was watching the people in Congress, Maxine Waters in particular, when they were debating this,

814
01:07:01,214 --> 01:07:05,514
was saying, well, we should at least be able to research this because we want to be able to, you know,

815
01:07:05,574 --> 01:07:11,454
stay on top of this, you know, relative to our peers in Europe and other, you know, developed countries around the world.

816
01:07:11,514 --> 01:07:12,674
We should at least be able to research it.

817
01:07:12,674 --> 01:07:17,054
I'm like, research it. While she was the chair of the finance committee, we built three CBDC pilots.

818
01:07:17,634 --> 01:07:23,434
We built Project Hamilton, which is a retail CBDC. We built Project Cedar, which is a wholesale CBDC.

819
01:07:23,874 --> 01:07:29,334
Then we have Regulated Liability Network, which is a platform for connecting CBDC payments.

820
01:07:29,694 --> 01:07:35,734
We didn't just research it. We have a retail CBDC pilot that can do 1.8 million transactions per second.

821
01:07:35,894 --> 01:07:40,854
So there's a big disconnect between, you know, what people are even talking about in Congress.

822
01:07:40,854 --> 01:07:59,614
Well, we should at least be able to research this. You built it. It's been tested. So anyway, the news today is they're reauthorized the NDAA, and now they're stripping the Anti-CBDC Surveillance Act out of it.

823
01:07:59,614 --> 01:08:18,274
So, so they didn't even get their show bill. I mean, it was meaningless to begin with, but they don't even get that. So now, now there's, you know, the prohibition on a CBDC is no longer there. But again, I would argue what we have is worse because people have the perception that we don't have a CBDC.

824
01:08:18,274 --> 01:08:22,854
But what we're actually doing is taking something private and adding CBDC level surveillance to it.

825
01:08:22,954 --> 01:08:30,834
And then it gets worse because the Clarity Act and we're going to start tokenizing other assets and adding KYC and AML to that.

826
01:08:30,914 --> 01:08:37,094
So stocks, bonds, all of the assets, all of your retirement funds, those are going to be tokenized and put under the control system of Congress.

827
01:08:37,634 --> 01:08:44,414
That's why when I say technocracy has accelerated five years in this first year of this administration, I'm not kidding.

828
01:08:44,534 --> 01:08:46,874
I mean, it's objectively accelerated.

829
01:08:46,874 --> 01:08:53,054
But there's no resistance. People are cheering it somehow, largely out of ignorance.

830
01:08:53,754 --> 01:08:59,934
Yeah, it's a scary picture. And I agree with you, you know, 100% of everything we really talked about here.

831
01:09:00,254 --> 01:09:04,114
You wrote a book called The Final Countdown, a book against CBDCs.

832
01:09:04,414 --> 01:09:12,114
Do you think we can prevent or stop technocracy and CBDCs in a financial surveillance panopticon?

833
01:09:12,114 --> 01:09:37,354
We can, but it requires, it's not going to happen by voting. It's going to require noncompliance and people to stop using fiat currency in all of its forms. That's why I've stopped using a personal bank account in 2019. But we're not going to vote our way through it. In fact, there aren't even two opposing positions right now. Right? I mean, there's just the advancement of digital surveillance money. But yeah, we could stop it.

834
01:09:37,354 --> 01:09:43,714
the thing is i mean when i wrote the book that you know the struggle with this is i mean i said this

835
01:09:43,714 --> 01:09:46,714
and made a lot of people angry but i think americans may be the most brainwashed people

836
01:09:46,714 --> 01:09:51,954
on the planet it is kind of like we're we're stuck somewhere between the 50s and the 80s right it's

837
01:09:51,954 --> 01:09:55,514
like we're we're in the we have this mindset of hey we just won world war ii and we're the dominant

838
01:09:55,514 --> 01:10:00,874
economic player and we're the freest place on earth and and none of those things are objectively

839
01:10:00,874 --> 01:10:05,574
true i mean we'll sit there and point we'll say oh can you believe what starmer did in the uk

840
01:10:05,574 --> 01:10:10,014
hey, they're going to implement a digital ID by 2019. It's like, yeah, the same person has a

841
01:10:10,014 --> 01:10:15,194
digital real ID, right? I mean, this is how big the Gulf is. We're actually innovating. We're

842
01:10:15,194 --> 01:10:20,954
actually accelerating this stuff and people don't realize it. But fiat currency itself doesn't work.

843
01:10:20,954 --> 01:10:25,234
It's never worked. Every fiat currency in human history has failed. The average fiat currency

844
01:10:25,234 --> 01:10:31,414
lasts like 27 years. Even global reserve currencies, like we are now, if you look at the

845
01:10:31,414 --> 01:10:36,074
previous five global reserve currencies, they only lasted 84 years. So I mean, we're kind of

846
01:10:36,074 --> 01:10:42,834
past, we're past our prime, even in that regard. So debt based money doesn't work. And I guess if

847
01:10:42,834 --> 01:10:46,354
insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, why are we

848
01:10:46,354 --> 01:10:51,134
continuing to do government issued fiat currencies? People like, Oh, bricks, but bricks isn't going to

849
01:10:51,134 --> 01:10:57,274
solve this. This is gonna be the thousand and one time that we've tried debt based fiat currency.

850
01:10:57,274 --> 01:11:01,254
So, but people are, again, they've been, I'm not blaming people for this.

851
01:11:01,414 --> 01:11:05,354
Our, you know, our education system, nobody learns about money in school.

852
01:11:05,594 --> 01:11:09,134
In fact, the more education you have, the less you actually know about money.

853
01:11:09,774 --> 01:11:14,914
The more it gets based on woke, you know, modern monetary theory and whatever.

854
01:11:15,234 --> 01:11:21,074
So whoever has the highest amount of education generally in economic matters probably knows the least.

855
01:11:21,254 --> 01:11:22,734
But it's not taught anywhere.

856
01:11:22,854 --> 01:11:23,654
It's not taught in schools.

857
01:11:23,734 --> 01:11:27,154
They don't really teach how the Federal Reserve works, the history of money, any of these other things.

858
01:11:27,154 --> 01:11:39,794
And so when I go around, when I would do workshops or do talks, I mean, part of why I had to write the book is I had to explain to people how money works now because people are sitting there worried about CBDCs in the future.

859
01:11:39,894 --> 01:11:46,474
I'm like, you should be worried about the fact that right now your bank account can be shut down without cause.

860
01:11:46,574 --> 01:11:52,854
The government can come in and issue a national security letter, shut down your bank account, and you can't talk to anybody about it, including a lawyer.

861
01:11:52,954 --> 01:11:54,814
That already exists today.

862
01:11:55,254 --> 01:11:56,814
Your money is already tracked.

863
01:11:56,814 --> 01:11:58,414
We already have programmable money.

864
01:11:58,674 --> 01:12:01,354
If you have a health savings account, what is a health savings account?

865
01:12:01,394 --> 01:12:04,274
People are like, oh, well, you know, I've got free market health care.

866
01:12:04,834 --> 01:12:09,174
You have a social credit system and a CBDC tied into one.

867
01:12:09,254 --> 01:12:10,194
What is a health savings account?

868
01:12:10,274 --> 01:12:23,874
It's an account where based on the government and the IRS rules, you can put only a certain percentage of your money into an account that has a debit card that can only be spent on predetermined health care services.

869
01:12:24,414 --> 01:12:28,974
You can only buy certain things from certain retailers based on what your insurer and the government said.

870
01:12:29,174 --> 01:12:30,614
And people are like, this is free market health care?

871
01:12:30,694 --> 01:12:31,994
It's digital programmable money.

872
01:12:32,454 --> 01:12:38,994
People got excited about RFK, and they got excited about, oh, yeah, you're not going to be able to buy sugary drinks with food stamps.

873
01:12:39,074 --> 01:12:39,774
What are food stamps?

874
01:12:39,894 --> 01:12:41,834
They're debit cards issued at the state level.

875
01:12:41,874 --> 01:12:42,514
So what are we adding?

876
01:12:42,554 --> 01:12:44,474
We're adding more programmable money.

877
01:12:44,594 --> 01:12:46,354
You may think it's a good idea now.

878
01:12:46,554 --> 01:12:49,714
You won't like it when the next administration comes in and says, well, you know what?

879
01:12:49,754 --> 01:12:51,094
You can't buy red meat with this.

880
01:12:51,434 --> 01:12:53,014
You can't buy this with this.

881
01:12:53,014 --> 01:13:02,334
What we're doing is we're adding more and more programmability and more and more control over the money that we have, which is already 92 to 96 percent digital anyway.

882
01:13:02,534 --> 01:13:05,114
So a lot of this has been, you know, people are sitting there.

883
01:13:05,194 --> 01:13:06,834
Oh, we don't want to become like communist China.

884
01:13:06,914 --> 01:13:07,914
We don't want to come like these people.

885
01:13:07,994 --> 01:13:09,094
Like you already are.

886
01:13:09,214 --> 01:13:10,754
You aren't even aware of it.

887
01:13:10,874 --> 01:13:12,254
So we can defeat it.

888
01:13:12,254 --> 01:13:21,094
But our work is cut out for us because I would argue the amount of propaganda Americans have swallowed is almost unprecedented.

889
01:13:21,094 --> 01:13:24,814
Yeah, I mean, I'm enjoying this conversation immensely.

890
01:13:25,314 --> 01:13:32,254
You know, as a Bitcoin maxi, and I think a lot of the listeners are, and someone who really values privacy.

891
01:13:32,714 --> 01:13:42,554
You know, I interviewed Keone Rodriguez today about his trial with Samurai Wallet and coin joining and fight for financial privacy there.

892
01:13:42,554 --> 01:13:49,834
But I do want to get into maybe just, you know, a little bit about hijacking Bitcoin and maybe Roger Ver and Epstein.

893
01:13:49,834 --> 01:13:56,254
just because I don't want to, you know, not want to discuss maybe some things that you want to,

894
01:13:56,354 --> 01:13:57,794
you know, would bring up in that vein.

895
01:13:57,934 --> 01:14:04,954
So how do you see maybe Bitcoin is sort of the flaws here with Bitcoin

896
01:14:04,954 --> 01:14:09,254
in regards to this fight against surveillance or, you know?

897
01:14:09,254 --> 01:14:11,614
Well, yes, like I said, so I was really excited about Bitcoin.

898
01:14:11,974 --> 01:14:16,014
And, you know, when I got my first Bitcoin in 2012, I remember at the time, I'm like,

899
01:14:16,074 --> 01:14:16,634
wow, this is great.

900
01:14:16,634 --> 01:14:22,634
this is actually better, faster, cheaper money than what is available through the traditional

901
01:14:22,634 --> 01:14:26,234
financial system. Because at that point, you know, the transaction fees were like, you know,

902
01:14:26,254 --> 01:14:32,074
a couple of cents. And it was nearly instant. And the traditional banking system didn't have

903
01:14:32,074 --> 01:14:37,454
anything like that. This was before Zelle. This was before Venmo. This was before Google Pay or

904
01:14:37,454 --> 01:14:42,734
Apple Pay. So I'm like, wow. So here we have a situation where it's, there's no third party

905
01:14:42,734 --> 01:14:48,934
involved and it's faster, cheaper. And so very excited about that and used it, as I said,

906
01:14:48,954 --> 01:14:53,474
for a whole variety of applications. And then, you know, we keep learning more about what happened

907
01:14:53,474 --> 01:14:58,674
with this hijacking of Bitcoin. And, you know, what happened to Roger was, well, I'll even take

908
01:14:58,674 --> 01:15:05,074
a step back. Roger learned about Bitcoin from a guy named Ian Freeman. And Ian Freeman and his

909
01:15:05,074 --> 01:15:10,814
business partner, Mark Edge, run a syndicated radio show called Free Talk Live. And in fact,

910
01:15:10,814 --> 01:15:12,814
this is how I found out about the Free State Project.

911
01:15:12,954 --> 01:15:16,274
I learned about this project in 2006 from these guys.

912
01:15:16,574 --> 01:15:18,754
And I even talked to Mark Edge, you know,

913
01:15:18,814 --> 01:15:21,174
before I even moved in up here and so on and so forth.

914
01:15:21,214 --> 01:15:23,034
And so I think it was October of 2010,

915
01:15:23,034 --> 01:15:25,514
they did an episode about Bitcoin.

916
01:15:26,234 --> 01:15:28,094
And Roger heard it.

917
01:15:28,614 --> 01:15:30,054
And this is where he first heard about Bitcoin.

918
01:15:30,054 --> 01:15:32,334
And then he read the white paper and everything else.

919
01:15:32,374 --> 01:15:33,634
And I guess, you know, he stayed up for,

920
01:15:33,674 --> 01:15:34,414
he had to go to the hospital

921
01:15:34,414 --> 01:15:36,574
because he had stayed up like three or four days in a row,

922
01:15:36,694 --> 01:15:39,014
couldn't sleep because he was so excited

923
01:15:39,014 --> 01:15:44,414
about the prospects of it. And so this is part of what motivated me to write the book and run for

924
01:15:44,414 --> 01:15:48,354
president and everything else is that I was noticing that some of my friends were being

925
01:15:48,354 --> 01:15:52,274
arrested targeted by the federal government. Ian Freeman, Jeremy Kaufman, who's another free

926
01:15:52,274 --> 01:15:58,194
stater who ran library, was targeted by the SEC. And Ian Freeman was targeted. He ran a

927
01:15:58,194 --> 01:16:04,334
bunch of ATMs and again, was a very early evangelist. And in New Hampshire, he would

928
01:16:04,334 --> 01:16:08,114
sign up retailers with point of sale systems and everything else. He probably did more

929
01:16:08,114 --> 01:16:13,034
to spread peer-to-peer cash adoption than anyone in the state of New Hampshire.

930
01:16:13,334 --> 01:16:16,314
And he was targeted by, when they arrested him,

931
01:16:16,374 --> 01:16:19,394
there were five different federal departments involved.

932
01:16:19,514 --> 01:16:21,834
There was a Bearcat, there was the Treasury Department, the IRS.

933
01:16:22,074 --> 01:16:23,334
It was the FBI.

934
01:16:23,814 --> 01:16:26,394
And it turns out that they tried to entrap him.

935
01:16:26,394 --> 01:16:32,594
I mean, they went looking for ways to manufacture reasons to shut him down.

936
01:16:32,714 --> 01:16:35,154
And they wanted them to shut him down because he was promoting,

937
01:16:35,154 --> 01:16:42,154
you know, at the time he was involved with Bitcoin, not bombs and the liberating effect.

938
01:16:42,514 --> 01:16:48,514
And so I was on Ian's show. He'd already lost a trial and it was right before his his sentencing

939
01:16:48,514 --> 01:16:52,314
hearing. And I was on there and I was saying, listen, you know, the reason that you're targeted,

940
01:16:52,454 --> 01:16:57,034
the reason and remember, this was I was warning people about what was going to happen. Now it's

941
01:16:57,034 --> 01:17:02,654
already happened. So this was right around the time President Biden signed Executive Order 14067.

942
01:17:02,654 --> 01:17:09,054
And that executive order authorized the U.S. officially as government policy to promote a CBDC.

943
01:17:09,334 --> 01:17:12,614
And again, the joke about that is they'd already done three successful pilots.

944
01:17:12,874 --> 01:17:17,114
But at the same time, it also called for a whole of government crackdown on crypto.

945
01:17:17,514 --> 01:17:25,614
Well, the whole of government crackdown on crypto had nothing to do with illegal activities or people being defrauded with respect to crypto.

946
01:17:25,934 --> 01:17:30,354
If you're going to roll out a CBDC, you need to shut down the competition.

947
01:17:30,694 --> 01:17:33,194
So this is why these people were targeted.

948
01:17:33,394 --> 01:17:36,894
So I even went to Roger before Ian's sentencing hearing.

949
01:17:36,974 --> 01:17:39,414
I said, hey, listen, would you be willing to retweet this?

950
01:17:39,414 --> 01:17:41,874
We want to get as many people as possible to the sentencing hearing.

951
01:17:43,074 --> 01:17:46,594
And so in my book, I warn people about what's coming.

952
01:17:46,734 --> 01:17:48,834
I warn people about the crackdown and everything else.

953
01:17:48,894 --> 01:17:54,094
And it's because of CBDCs and the government's desire to completely control digital money.

954
01:17:54,114 --> 01:17:56,834
And then six months later, Roger is arrested.

955
01:17:56,894 --> 01:17:58,354
And he writes hijacking Bitcoin.

956
01:17:58,354 --> 01:18:14,784
I had him on my podcast on I want to say April the 12th and he was arrested 14 days later or 16 days later in Spain arrested and put into the same prison his friend and fellow libertarian John McAfee died in

957
01:18:15,344 --> 01:18:17,324
And I'm like, this is not about taxes.

958
01:18:18,144 --> 01:18:19,264
We have the timing on this.

959
01:18:19,504 --> 01:18:20,924
This is stuff going back to 2014.

960
01:18:20,924 --> 01:18:22,484
This is not about taxes.

961
01:18:22,604 --> 01:18:24,024
This is about something else.

962
01:18:24,024 --> 01:18:33,024
This is about trying to suppress him speaking about these things or potentially promoting other alternatives to central bank currencies.

963
01:18:33,024 --> 01:18:39,564
And so but what happens with this and not a lot of people, of course, have read hijacking Bitcoin and Roger never got the opportunity.

964
01:18:40,064 --> 01:18:44,664
You know, he's doing warm up podcasts like mine. I'm sure he was going to do huge podcasts at some point.

965
01:18:45,264 --> 01:18:51,104
And so most people have never heard his the story of hijacking Bitcoin that he and Steve Patterson wrote.

966
01:18:51,104 --> 01:18:57,224
And I will say so far, no one's refuted the points, but there's a lot of suppression about the information even getting out.

967
01:18:57,324 --> 01:19:04,744
I've been blocked by Michael Saylor, Max Keiser, Adam Back, Samson Mao, like most of the Bitcoin Core developers.

968
01:19:04,904 --> 01:19:07,324
Many of these people I've never even engaged with, Luke Dash Jr.

969
01:19:07,604 --> 01:19:10,484
There's like a people don't want this information out.

970
01:19:10,984 --> 01:19:20,444
Before Roger was arrested, he and another guy offered Adam Back $500,000 donated to a charity of his choice to have an open debate about the concepts in this book.

971
01:19:20,444 --> 01:19:24,584
And there's a lot of misconceptions and a lot of people don't like Roger and polarizing and everything else.

972
01:19:24,744 --> 01:19:27,444
And a lot of people think he created Bitcoin Cash.

973
01:19:27,604 --> 01:19:29,564
This isn't even about Bitcoin Cash.

974
01:19:31,264 --> 01:19:41,664
He was undecided one way or the other, but he saw during the Bitcoin block wars that people that were expressing big blocker views were being suppressed.

975
01:19:41,664 --> 01:19:50,584
They were being banned from the discussion boards on Reddit, which was one of the primary ways where people would debate information.

976
01:19:50,764 --> 01:19:56,444
Other things, other techniques were being used, even denial of service attacks, the whole nine yards.

977
01:19:56,604 --> 01:20:07,064
And so, you know, being a libertarian or an anti-hiver, you want to characterize him, he's like, you know, his view is whoever is trying, whoever they're trying to censor is generally right.

978
01:20:07,064 --> 01:20:10,304
And so that's what even got him to consider the other position.

979
01:20:10,304 --> 01:20:13,324
And then as he dug into it, he learned more and more.

980
01:20:13,804 --> 01:20:19,044
And so his book covers a lot of the block size wars.

981
01:20:19,204 --> 01:20:21,784
And it's not him ranting or even telling his side of the story.

982
01:20:21,844 --> 01:20:26,984
He's bringing in emails and things from public forums involving the Bitcoin core developers.

983
01:20:27,124 --> 01:20:31,264
So it's not him just opining on what happened.

984
01:20:31,364 --> 01:20:34,704
And essentially, in the book, he outlines a series of things happened.

985
01:20:35,264 --> 01:20:38,264
And that have really changed my view on crypto projects as well.

986
01:20:38,264 --> 01:20:42,044
There are a lot of people that are excited, well, it's open source, and there's no funding.

987
01:20:42,164 --> 01:20:46,964
And this is great because, you know, if these organizations have centralized funding, that can be problematic.

988
01:20:47,144 --> 01:20:54,124
Well, it turns out that developers aren't just working for free, and there aren't just white hat people out there auditing code for free.

989
01:20:54,724 --> 01:20:55,904
Developers get paid somewhere.

990
01:20:56,404 --> 01:21:00,264
And some of the developers, like Peter Todd, was paid by a guy named John Dillon,

991
01:21:00,264 --> 01:21:05,744
who I think the book outlines had ties to the intelligence community

992
01:21:05,744 --> 01:21:08,324
who wanted the small block narrative,

993
01:21:08,404 --> 01:21:12,404
did not want Bitcoin to be adopted as peer-to-peer cash.

994
01:21:13,124 --> 01:21:15,984
And so there's a whole interesting story here.

995
01:21:16,084 --> 01:21:18,384
And Roger doesn't even come, I cover some of it in my book,

996
01:21:18,424 --> 01:21:21,244
and then some of it's been revealed even more recently.

997
01:21:21,424 --> 01:21:23,544
One of the arguments that I made about it,

998
01:21:23,544 --> 01:21:26,264
so Roger's point is that there's a lot of propaganda,

999
01:21:26,424 --> 01:21:27,144
there was a lot of censorship,

1000
01:21:27,344 --> 01:21:30,224
there were people with ties to traditional finance,

1001
01:21:30,264 --> 01:21:36,924
block stream, self-interested parties that benefited from keeping Bitcoin artificially

1002
01:21:36,924 --> 01:21:42,684
slow and expensive, whereas the original white paper was always purely peer-to-peer digital cash

1003
01:21:42,684 --> 01:21:47,324
systems. Satoshi talked about competing with Visa very early on. There was never even,

1004
01:21:47,804 --> 01:21:54,144
the white paper had no cap whatsoever on the block size. The one megabyte limit was put in

1005
01:21:54,144 --> 01:22:00,024
for testing purposes. And then it became this whole thing, which he argues is a

1006
01:22:00,024 --> 01:22:05,744
hijack narrative. And this happened around whatever, 2015, 2017. And the interesting thing

1007
01:22:05,744 --> 01:22:10,464
is a group was formed called the Bitcoin Foundation. Roger was actually one of the founding members

1008
01:22:10,464 --> 01:22:18,144
of it that was formed to provide funding for these developers. And that group ran into some

1009
01:22:18,144 --> 01:22:23,024
financial difficulties and some organizational difficulties around 2015. And then all of a

1010
01:22:23,024 --> 01:22:29,364
sudden, the core developers were being funded by MIT, by a guy named Joy Ito. And I had theorized

1011
01:22:29,364 --> 01:22:34,944
for a while, then I said, well, look, Epstein made one interview about Bitcoin. I think it

1012
01:22:34,944 --> 01:22:41,204
was in 2017. And it was a long, I don't know if it was a quote. It was in an article. It

1013
01:22:41,204 --> 01:22:46,684
wasn't a quote. But it was, I guess, a paraphrasing of what he was saying, which was Epstein saying,

1014
01:22:47,124 --> 01:22:52,724
Bitcoin is digital gold. It's not fit to be a currency. And we knew he funded this MIT

1015
01:22:52,724 --> 01:22:58,964
group. I suspected that he funded some of these Bitcoin core developers. And now we know,

1016
01:22:58,964 --> 01:23:04,964
as of two weeks ago from the House emails that he explicitly funded the Bitcoin core developers

1017
01:23:04,964 --> 01:23:10,884
after the Bitcoin Foundation. And this is the time where they kind of cemented this small block

1018
01:23:10,884 --> 01:23:15,844
narrative of Bitcoin as digital gold. But what's interesting is one of the developers that Epstein

1019
01:23:15,844 --> 01:23:23,144
funded, Corey Fields, ended up going on to be a co-author of Project Hamilton, which is the U.S.

1020
01:23:23,144 --> 01:23:29,784
retail CBDC pilot program, an initiative between MIT and the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston. So

1021
01:23:29,784 --> 01:23:33,824
literally, all of a sudden, it's like, well, no, this, you know, we don't need this to be fast. We

1022
01:23:33,824 --> 01:23:37,904
don't need this to be for transactions. And the same people pushing that narrative were funding

1023
01:23:37,904 --> 01:23:47,244
a retail CBDC with some common Bitcoin developers. So now we're in a position where, you know,

1024
01:23:47,364 --> 01:23:52,524
whether you like Bitcoin or not, it's not an alternative to cash for payments. I mean,

1025
01:23:52,524 --> 01:23:56,304
And, you know, people certainly, Michael Saylor will argue that that's better.

1026
01:23:56,744 --> 01:23:58,684
It certainly isn't what it was supposed to be.

1027
01:23:58,684 --> 01:24:05,884
And I don't think it helps in the fight against, you know, CBDCs or more broadly technocracy,

1028
01:24:06,064 --> 01:24:12,464
whether it's CBDCs or private stable coins that are under the control and regulated by Congress and the federal government.

1029
01:24:12,724 --> 01:24:15,344
And so, you know, and most people don't know this.

1030
01:24:15,484 --> 01:24:16,104
Most people do not.

1031
01:24:16,544 --> 01:24:21,604
When I go around, because there are a lot of people, look, if you're a Bitcoin maxi, obviously you're well versed in all this.

1032
01:24:21,684 --> 01:24:22,184
You know this.

1033
01:24:22,524 --> 01:24:24,144
And a lot of people will say, well, this was settled.

1034
01:24:24,224 --> 01:24:25,684
The market decided and everything else.

1035
01:24:26,184 --> 01:24:31,844
In the 27 states that I've been to, 99% of people have never heard of the block size wars.

1036
01:24:31,984 --> 01:24:36,704
Most people don't know that people ever used Bitcoin for transactions.

1037
01:24:36,704 --> 01:24:44,244
They don't understand that Steam and Overstock.com and Microsoft and Expedia were actually accepting Bitcoin for payments in 2017.

1038
01:24:44,464 --> 01:24:46,124
People have no idea of that history.

1039
01:24:46,644 --> 01:24:55,944
And then once the Bitcoin standard was released and everything else, and there's a whole new crop of people introduced to Bitcoin, this is what they know is the canon of what Bitcoin is all about.

1040
01:24:56,444 --> 01:25:02,624
And that previous history is, by and large, completely unknown by most people.

1041
01:25:02,624 --> 01:25:07,564
Now, you may know the history and decide, I don't care, I'd rather have this digital gold thing anyway or whatever.

1042
01:25:08,064 --> 01:25:14,464
But I've found people are horrified when they hear the story about what happened.

1043
01:25:14,464 --> 01:25:21,664
And, you know, and the idea that now something that was a peer-to-peer cash system is something that banks are involved in, that it's completely trackable.

1044
01:25:21,864 --> 01:25:28,504
I mean, this is the thing that's, you know, distressing about this is the level to which chain-alysis is involved.

1045
01:25:28,684 --> 01:25:34,264
Chain-alysis, which, you know, and I'm sure your audience probably knows, but started out with the Mt. Gox hack.

1046
01:25:34,264 --> 01:25:47,604
In fact, my understanding is it was one of the co-founders of Kraken started working with law enforcement in 2014 to try to track the Bitcoin that were hacked from Mt. Gox.

1047
01:25:47,684 --> 01:25:50,944
And this turned into the genesis of Chainalysis.

1048
01:25:51,164 --> 01:26:00,264
Now, this company, Chainalysis, works with law enforcement agencies all over the world to track Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency transactions.

1049
01:26:00,264 --> 01:26:05,004
transactions, but it's gotten to the point where it's so sophisticated that private investigators

1050
01:26:05,004 --> 01:26:11,084
in the United States can receive certification and training in chain analysis. And so now I've

1051
01:26:11,084 --> 01:26:15,604
had three separate occasions this year where people that I know were either in business

1052
01:26:15,604 --> 01:26:19,444
disputes with a partner or going through a divorce. And in one particular case, it's like,

1053
01:26:19,544 --> 01:26:26,284
here was the legal proceeding and the other side had hired a private investigator that was certified

1054
01:26:26,284 --> 01:26:30,544
Biden chain analysis. And they went through and they had more information about this person's

1055
01:26:30,544 --> 01:26:35,084
Bitcoin transactions than they did about his bank transactions because the banks only keep

1056
01:26:35,084 --> 01:26:39,304
the information for seven years. And so there are some people that actually still think that Bitcoin

1057
01:26:39,304 --> 01:26:43,424
is private. And I know there are some people that say, well, if you do it right. But I mean,

1058
01:26:43,464 --> 01:26:48,644
look, Ian Freeman, Roger Ver, Ross Ulbrich, these are not stupid people. These are smart people that

1059
01:26:48,644 --> 01:26:54,104
were involved in an early... The United States government doesn't have 327,000 Bitcoin because

1060
01:26:54,104 --> 01:27:00,764
Bitcoin is private. The truth is, for most people, it's highly surveillable. And while you could make

1061
01:27:00,764 --> 01:27:07,344
the argument that, well, they can't force me to give my keys, true, they can threaten to throw

1062
01:27:07,344 --> 01:27:12,644
you in prison unless you give up your keys. And so far, the track record is that when people are

1063
01:27:12,644 --> 01:27:17,724
presented with that choice, they've given up their keys. And so now the US is one of the largest

1064
01:27:17,724 --> 01:27:24,624
holders of Bitcoin, China, governments all around the world now have a whole bunch of Bitcoin. And

1065
01:27:24,624 --> 01:27:30,284
now a lot of people that are being onboarded to Bitcoin are two levels or maybe even more removed

1066
01:27:30,284 --> 01:27:35,064
from having it in their own self-custody. They're either buying it on an exchange or they're buying

1067
01:27:35,064 --> 01:27:40,384
it, you know, buying shares and, you know, strategy, or they're buying a BlackRock ETF. They'll never

1068
01:27:40,384 --> 01:27:45,804
touch a Bitcoin. And in fact, who they're buying it from may not touch or custody the Bitcoin either.

1069
01:27:45,804 --> 01:27:53,784
So people may still think that that's a good idea, but that is not an alternative to CBDCs, which is the thing that I'm worried about.

1070
01:27:53,844 --> 01:27:56,584
I am worried about this technocracy narrative.

1071
01:27:56,944 --> 01:28:06,264
And the other thing that does frustrate me is, in particular for people who are libertarians, to be cheering on using taxpayer money to buy an asset.

1072
01:28:06,644 --> 01:28:11,624
I mean, I look at – people complain about Nancy Pelosi and insider trading, and I look at Cynthia Loomis.

1073
01:28:11,684 --> 01:28:14,304
I'm like, you own $500,000 worth of Bitcoin.

1074
01:28:14,304 --> 01:28:17,804
Imagine if Nancy Pelosi went on stage and said, hey, you know what?

1075
01:28:18,804 --> 01:28:26,004
My proposal is that the U.S. government buys a trillion dollars worth of my retirement portfolio and holds it for 20 years.

1076
01:28:26,204 --> 01:28:26,984
It's kind of ridiculous.

1077
01:28:27,044 --> 01:28:29,144
And I know that there are people in Bitcoin that don't like this either.

1078
01:28:29,324 --> 01:28:35,664
I know that there are a lot of different views on this, but there are a lot of people now at this point that don't even care.

1079
01:28:35,824 --> 01:28:40,964
I mean they were – they got in it for the liberty and for the freedom, and now they're like, well, OK, BlackRock's in.

1080
01:28:40,964 --> 01:28:45,184
And if the taxpayers are paying for this, you know, great, number go up.

1081
01:28:45,344 --> 01:28:48,864
And, you know, that's unfortunate, at least in my view.

1082
01:28:49,124 --> 01:28:49,304
Yeah.

1083
01:28:49,444 --> 01:28:53,624
I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said there and brought up and the facts.

1084
01:28:53,884 --> 01:28:58,724
I have a page full of notes here that I'll just kind of riff through and then we'll round out here.

1085
01:28:58,804 --> 01:29:02,324
I mean, you know, all this is sort of we agree.

1086
01:29:02,324 --> 01:29:06,424
I mean, Epstein funded Edo at MIT.

1087
01:29:07,064 --> 01:29:12,224
Edo and MIT sent funding over to the developers after the Bitcoin Foundation folded.

1088
01:29:12,564 --> 01:29:15,524
There was that email where Epstein says Gavin is clever.

1089
01:29:16,004 --> 01:29:17,904
Really raised a lot of questions for me.

1090
01:29:19,564 --> 01:29:28,374
You know I think Bitcoin is our opportunity to separate money from state But you know I not going to be blind about this If there something better if there are flaws in Bitcoin

1091
01:29:28,374 --> 01:29:32,174
if it gets captured, I'm going to have to, you know, augment, pull an audible.

1092
01:29:33,054 --> 01:29:36,934
But those were really interesting questions. What was Gavin clever about? What were they

1093
01:29:36,934 --> 01:29:41,834
working on together? I mean, Gavin was the first one to go to the CIA. I don't even I don't believe

1094
01:29:41,834 --> 01:29:46,114
any of the story, but I know what was said and we can kind of pontificate off of that.

1095
01:29:46,554 --> 01:29:51,214
Even if I come up with all my hypotheses, and we won't be right, but it's interesting.

1096
01:29:51,994 --> 01:30:01,034
Around the early times of when that was all happening, I mean, Tether comes into being very strange origins of Tether, very vague, obscure.

1097
01:30:01,734 --> 01:30:04,914
The money behind Tether, Brock Pierce was involved with all this.

1098
01:30:04,994 --> 01:30:06,474
Brock Pierce was involved with Epstein.

1099
01:30:06,854 --> 01:30:15,174
I agree with you that, you know, I think the most important things about Bitcoin are, or the least, the things that aren't talked about right now are privacy.

1100
01:30:15,174 --> 01:30:22,494
self-custody these are things we agree on whether we agree that on the same tool right we want the

1101
01:30:22,494 --> 01:30:29,014
same things right we want decentralized economic systems we were anti-cbdc we want free state

1102
01:30:29,014 --> 01:30:33,454
movements and free markets and free money and the block size wars were very confusing

1103
01:30:33,454 --> 01:30:39,714
Roger Ver was I found him very inspirational no matter even though I don't agree with everything

1104
01:30:39,714 --> 01:30:44,534
he said after the block size wars even his enthusiasm for blockchain his enthusiasm for

1105
01:30:44,534 --> 01:30:49,294
libertarianism. He was incredibly articulate. I mean, he was Bitcoin Jesus. I would love to talk

1106
01:30:49,294 --> 01:30:52,934
to Roger. I agree with you that they, it's interesting that I don't think it was about

1107
01:30:52,934 --> 01:30:58,274
taxes or the timing especially was very interesting. And it seemed like maybe they

1108
01:30:58,274 --> 01:31:02,914
wanted to silence him. I'd love to hear his views on things, whether I agree or disagree.

1109
01:31:02,914 --> 01:31:08,814
I have a friend who's a Bitcoin OG, Gabe. He said he read the entire hijacking book. He does

1110
01:31:08,814 --> 01:31:14,434
disagree with a lot of maybe interpretations on things or maybe how things were put together,

1111
01:31:14,534 --> 01:31:16,534
But I think it's a conversation worth having.

1112
01:31:16,594 --> 01:31:17,614
We shouldn't be blind here.

1113
01:31:17,694 --> 01:31:18,694
We should look around corners.

1114
01:31:18,694 --> 01:31:21,174
I wonder, you know, Satoshi is the only person.

1115
01:31:21,274 --> 01:31:24,134
We mentioned, you know, Ross Ulbrich wasn't able to stay private.

1116
01:31:24,394 --> 01:31:26,994
Roger Veer wasn't able to avoid the thumb of the state.

1117
01:31:27,394 --> 01:31:33,594
Keone Rodriguez and Roman Strong are going to jail, fighting for privacy, right?

1118
01:31:34,194 --> 01:31:36,494
Satoshi managed to evade the state.

1119
01:31:37,074 --> 01:31:38,694
I love the...

1120
01:31:39,194 --> 01:31:41,914
Or maybe Satoshi is the state.

1121
01:31:41,934 --> 01:31:42,254
That's what I'm getting at.

1122
01:31:42,314 --> 01:31:43,314
So I love that story.

1123
01:31:43,314 --> 01:31:46,634
It's a big part of why I'm a Bitcoiner, but maybe I'm a dipshit, right?

1124
01:31:46,854 --> 01:31:51,854
And that makes sometimes when I think about it with just one part of my brain, I'm like, wow, you said you're really gullible here.

1125
01:31:52,634 --> 01:31:54,334
No one could kind of do this.

1126
01:31:54,454 --> 01:31:56,514
And maybe Bitcoin was ceded by the state.

1127
01:31:57,114 --> 01:31:59,054
Are they controlling Bitcoin the whole way?

1128
01:31:59,534 --> 01:32:07,734
Is this a master plan or was it ceded by something and they're just reacting and trying to do the best they can to mitigate the damage?

1129
01:32:07,854 --> 01:32:10,234
I don't know, but I'm always digging into that.

1130
01:32:10,234 --> 01:32:13,474
I got to be open to sort of the rational thoughts and what could be happening here.

1131
01:32:13,574 --> 01:32:16,934
Right now, Bitcoin is going through the policy wars, filter wars.

1132
01:32:17,234 --> 01:32:19,514
You know, it's just almost as confusing as the block size wars.

1133
01:32:19,794 --> 01:32:24,294
So in terms of money, Bitcoin is, you know, it goes up against capital gains taxes.

1134
01:32:24,854 --> 01:32:28,014
The U.S. government, why you say it confiscates Bitcoin.

1135
01:32:29,214 --> 01:32:32,774
It's talking about maybe buying it, but it doesn't treat it as nice as the dollar.

1136
01:32:32,874 --> 01:32:34,314
It doesn't treat it as nice as money.

1137
01:32:34,374 --> 01:32:35,194
It taxes you.

1138
01:32:35,814 --> 01:32:36,834
It doesn't let you use it.

1139
01:32:36,834 --> 01:32:43,894
And to a large extent, Bitcoin is very hard to use correctly in lots of ways, including privately.

1140
01:32:44,434 --> 01:32:46,594
And there's a war against privacy of all kinds.

1141
01:32:46,754 --> 01:32:49,014
So I've enjoyed this conversation immensely.

1142
01:32:49,674 --> 01:32:50,874
Aaron, I like the way you think.

1143
01:32:51,134 --> 01:32:52,754
I'll leave it to you for any words.

1144
01:32:53,154 --> 01:32:54,694
Well, I appreciate it.

1145
01:32:54,694 --> 01:32:58,154
And I will say you're the only Bitcoin Maxie that's talked to me.

1146
01:32:58,334 --> 01:32:59,934
Literally, I've been blocked by everyone else.

1147
01:33:00,134 --> 01:33:02,254
And that frustrates me.

1148
01:33:02,434 --> 01:33:04,574
I mean, and people argue, well, there was no censorship.

1149
01:33:04,574 --> 01:33:10,054
And I'm kind of like, you know, all I did was I got blocked for recommending his book.

1150
01:33:10,094 --> 01:33:11,494
And then Roger retweeted.

1151
01:33:11,574 --> 01:33:13,434
I got a whole bunch of blocks literally just for that.

1152
01:33:13,474 --> 01:33:14,854
And it wasn't even like a long review.

1153
01:33:14,914 --> 01:33:15,774
It was like two sentences.

1154
01:33:16,514 --> 01:33:21,334
But I will say that there are solutions for Bitcoin maxis.

1155
01:33:21,494 --> 01:33:27,334
There's something recently that's been released called Confidential Layer that allows you to bridge your Bitcoin into Zeno.

1156
01:33:27,514 --> 01:33:28,394
I like Zeno.

1157
01:33:28,474 --> 01:33:29,274
I like privacy coins.

1158
01:33:29,274 --> 01:33:38,434
But in particular, I like a project called Zeno because it basically – the founder was one of the guys who created CryptoNote, which is the technology behind Monero.

1159
01:33:38,574 --> 01:33:40,974
So he's a privacy OG.

1160
01:33:41,314 --> 01:33:50,854
But basically what Zeno allows you to do is to tokenize assets kind of like you can with Ethereum except the assets that you're tokenizing have the same privacy features as Monero.

1161
01:33:51,074 --> 01:33:53,194
So you can tokenize a whole variety of things.

1162
01:33:53,634 --> 01:33:57,774
There's a stablecoin called Freedom Dollar that is created using Zeno.

1163
01:33:57,774 --> 01:34:00,974
It's an algorithmic stablecoin, so it's not backed by treasury.

1164
01:34:01,134 --> 01:34:03,594
So it's a completely private stablecoin.

1165
01:34:03,674 --> 01:34:10,854
But then you can actually tokenize your Bitcoin and Ethereum and BNB and then spend the tokenized form of it with low fees.

1166
01:34:10,994 --> 01:34:12,194
And so I do recommend that.

1167
01:34:12,194 --> 01:34:22,374
I mean, as much as the issues that I have with Bitcoin, I do recommend for people that have Bitcoin to understand that it can be tracked and to look for privacy solutions.

1168
01:34:22,554 --> 01:34:24,314
I hope that there are privacy solutions.

1169
01:34:24,474 --> 01:34:26,374
I'm not rooting against Bitcoin.

1170
01:34:26,374 --> 01:34:33,154
I'm voting, I'm rooting for privacy and I'm rooting for people to understand the threat of technocracy.

1171
01:34:33,794 --> 01:34:40,094
And because it's really a big deal and it's going really fast and most people aren't aware.

1172
01:34:40,254 --> 01:34:50,734
But, you know, hopefully there are, you know, in addition to confidential layer, hopefully there'll be other solutions to help make Bitcoin private so that people can stay safe.

1173
01:34:50,814 --> 01:34:53,974
And I hope people really look into that and take it seriously.

1174
01:34:53,974 --> 01:34:54,974
Yeah, I agree.

1175
01:34:54,974 --> 01:34:58,954
I agree. I only have four more data points to bring up before we roll out here.

1176
01:34:59,134 --> 01:35:03,274
I don't know if you know my buddy Mandrick. He was in New Hampshire around that time.

1177
01:35:03,994 --> 01:35:09,874
I think I bought some bacon. I bought a bacon weave or something from him at Porkfest a long time ago.

1178
01:35:09,874 --> 01:35:15,594
So you might have run into Keone and Bill from Samurai. I don't know if they were in New Hampshire.

1179
01:35:16,014 --> 01:35:21,314
I haven't yet. I haven't yet, but I'm supposed to talk to him related to his his current situation.

1180
01:35:21,314 --> 01:35:28,534
Yeah, well, that's dire and he's being politically persecuted and it's travesty and it's a really bad sign for Bitcoin in America.

1181
01:35:28,814 --> 01:35:29,734
I mean, Bitcoin is code.

1182
01:35:29,954 --> 01:35:33,774
It's sort of agnostic to laws, but it's not good if you're an American Bitcoiner.

1183
01:35:33,974 --> 01:35:36,034
And I think that's sort of the fucking world.

1184
01:35:36,434 --> 01:35:45,674
So and then, you know, funding is a real issue and governance in Bitcoin, whether you like the way it's been or even if you like the way it's been.

1185
01:35:45,754 --> 01:35:46,474
We got to grow up.

1186
01:35:46,514 --> 01:35:47,114
We got to mature.

1187
01:35:47,374 --> 01:35:49,614
I don't know if you can connect me in any way to Roger Ver.

1188
01:35:49,614 --> 01:35:52,774
I would love to speak with him on or offline, on or off the record.

1189
01:35:53,154 --> 01:36:08,494
And the other really weirdest thing that we didn't touch on that I can't find anybody who really knows about this and would talk about it, but is Maker Dau and what happened maybe with Nikolai and maybe his importance or role in the movement.

1190
01:36:09,794 --> 01:36:10,814
Actually, I don't know.

1191
01:36:10,894 --> 01:36:13,074
I don't know what ended up happening with that.

1192
01:36:13,774 --> 01:36:15,314
I haven't thought about that for a while.

1193
01:36:15,334 --> 01:36:16,194
Still digging there.

1194
01:36:16,654 --> 01:36:18,134
Well, thank you so much.

1195
01:36:18,134 --> 01:36:22,334
Please let people know where they can find your work and your projects.

1196
01:36:23,234 --> 01:36:23,574
Sure.

1197
01:36:23,714 --> 01:36:26,614
You can find me at daylightfreedom.org.

1198
01:36:26,914 --> 01:36:37,894
It links to all the six other projects that we're doing, including freedomforge.io, which is an incubator for creating private tokenization projects.

1199
01:36:38,214 --> 01:36:41,314
OSARA.com, which is a medical tourism marketplace.

1200
01:36:42,234 --> 01:36:44,094
Technocracyatlas.com.

1201
01:36:44,734 --> 01:36:45,634
And a couple of others.

1202
01:36:45,714 --> 01:36:46,774
TheAaronDayShow.com.

1203
01:36:46,774 --> 01:36:47,774
I have my own podcast.

1204
01:36:47,774 --> 01:36:50,234
Mondays and Thursdays

1205
01:36:50,234 --> 01:36:51,414
at 6 p.m.

1206
01:36:51,434 --> 01:36:54,434
And then you can find me on X at AaronRDay.

1207
01:36:54,674 --> 01:36:56,214
Are you connected at all still

1208
01:36:56,214 --> 01:36:56,974
with Jeffrey Tucker?

1209
01:36:57,494 --> 01:36:58,174
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1210
01:36:58,174 --> 01:36:59,634
I talk to Jeffrey all the time.

1211
01:36:59,734 --> 01:37:01,714
I'm still a fellow at the Brownstone Institute

1212
01:37:01,714 --> 01:37:04,214
and a big fan of the Brownstone Institute

1213
01:37:04,214 --> 01:37:04,954
and Jeffrey.

1214
01:37:05,034 --> 01:37:05,794
I had Jeffrey on.

1215
01:37:05,854 --> 01:37:07,754
Please say hi to my friend Jeffrey.

1216
01:37:07,834 --> 01:37:09,274
I haven't heard from him in a while, though,

1217
01:37:09,374 --> 01:37:10,174
or heard back.

1218
01:37:10,894 --> 01:37:12,054
We had a great conversation,

1219
01:37:12,234 --> 01:37:13,714
and actually that's the only show

1220
01:37:13,714 --> 01:37:16,094
that I've ever had that was taken off YouTube.

1221
01:37:17,094 --> 01:37:17,894
I don't even know if you know that.

1222
01:37:17,894 --> 01:37:18,294
Wow, really?

1223
01:37:19,694 --> 01:37:21,494
When did you have him on?

1224
01:37:21,714 --> 01:37:24,374
It was about maybe two years after COVID, really.

1225
01:37:25,094 --> 01:37:26,634
We weren't in the thick of it.

1226
01:37:26,794 --> 01:37:28,034
We were coming out of it.

1227
01:37:28,414 --> 01:37:29,634
It was still a little touchy.

1228
01:37:29,634 --> 01:37:33,634
You know, and actually, you know, he has sort of, what was it,

1229
01:37:33,634 --> 01:37:36,714
the Great Declaration or the Barrington Declaration?

1230
01:37:37,454 --> 01:37:40,454
So he's the founder or one of the authors of that.

1231
01:37:40,614 --> 01:37:43,694
But in my opinion, he was incredibly balanced.

1232
01:37:43,694 --> 01:37:47,914
Like he, he wasn't like, oh, the vaccine's going to kill everybody.

1233
01:37:47,914 --> 01:37:49,574
He was very pragmatic.

1234
01:37:50,054 --> 01:37:54,934
He didn't like a lot of, and this is my words, but in the conversation we had, it was very

1235
01:37:54,934 --> 01:37:55,354
balanced.

1236
01:37:55,354 --> 01:37:58,894
And what I think happened, I don't even think we got taken down by the algorithm.

1237
01:37:59,214 --> 01:38:02,334
Somebody commented, this is the kind of guy who kills grandmas.

1238
01:38:02,734 --> 01:38:04,834
That comment, I think, took the show down.

1239
01:38:05,394 --> 01:38:07,114
I got a, I came on, went on YouTube.

1240
01:38:07,414 --> 01:38:08,994
I was like, oh, my channel's gone.

1241
01:38:09,314 --> 01:38:09,994
I got an email.

1242
01:38:10,134 --> 01:38:10,834
My channel's gone.

1243
01:38:10,834 --> 01:38:14,674
They, you two, put me through this re-education program.

1244
01:38:14,794 --> 01:38:18,654
I felt like I was in like some sort of totalitarian country.

1245
01:38:18,834 --> 01:38:29,314
And it was like, you know, you can talk about medical issues, but you can't give advice that goes against the World Health Organization and local authorities.

1246
01:38:29,894 --> 01:38:35,294
You can have a guest say that they had a negative experience, but they can't say the thing is negative.

1247
01:38:35,634 --> 01:38:38,954
I mean, all these questions were like mind control and how you're supposed to think.

1248
01:38:38,954 --> 01:38:41,714
and I had to answer them to get my show back.

1249
01:38:41,714 --> 01:38:45,454
And that was a very disconcerting feeling as a freedom lover

1250
01:38:45,454 --> 01:38:48,334
and a sovereignty lover, as a Bitcoin or any of these things.

1251
01:38:48,654 --> 01:38:51,994
Hard to build somewhere where they can take it all away from you

1252
01:38:51,994 --> 01:38:53,674
when they don't agree with what you say.

1253
01:38:54,914 --> 01:38:57,234
I mean, Jeffrey's talked about this a lot.

1254
01:38:57,854 --> 01:39:02,334
Jeffrey was not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch of the imagination.

1255
01:39:02,574 --> 01:39:05,974
He was a libertarian or whatever you want to call him,

1256
01:39:05,974 --> 01:39:09,494
And he's been against lockdowns for a long time.

1257
01:39:09,594 --> 01:39:11,054
So that was the issue that hooked him.

1258
01:39:11,134 --> 01:39:18,714
But I think the more he's looked into it and what he's created at the Brownstone Institute is a haven for people that were canceled because of that whole epidemic.

1259
01:39:19,074 --> 01:39:25,134
And some of the events that he's put together, I mean, it's the only place where some of these people have been able to speak the truth.

1260
01:39:25,254 --> 01:39:28,274
And they're not all libertarians.

1261
01:39:28,274 --> 01:39:37,394
In fact, it's a pretty interesting balance of people that he's amassed that are dedicated to continuing to push the truth.

1262
01:39:37,514 --> 01:39:38,334
And so I'll pass that on.

1263
01:39:38,374 --> 01:39:41,794
The fact that that show was that you got kicked off of that is sad.

1264
01:39:41,794 --> 01:39:44,254
Yeah, well, we put it up on Twitter or X.

1265
01:39:44,314 --> 01:39:45,074
We put it up on Rumble.

1266
01:39:45,174 --> 01:39:47,854
And it's actually one of my biggest downloaded audio shows still.

1267
01:39:48,474 --> 01:39:50,054
But, yeah, YouTube took it down.

1268
01:39:50,294 --> 01:39:51,694
So fuck them.

1269
01:39:51,854 --> 01:39:53,374
But thank you so much, Aaron.

1270
01:39:53,534 --> 01:39:54,374
Really appreciate it.

1271
01:39:54,374 --> 01:39:54,714
Thank you.

1272
01:39:54,774 --> 01:39:55,374
I appreciate it.

1273
01:39:55,374 --> 01:39:59,134
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Bitcoin Matrix.

1274
01:39:59,614 --> 01:40:03,954
If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to like, subscribe and drop a comment below

1275
01:40:03,954 --> 01:40:05,754
with any questions or thoughts you may have.

1276
01:40:05,994 --> 01:40:07,174
We'd love to hear from you.

1277
01:40:07,514 --> 01:40:11,734
You can support the show by checking out our sponsors and affiliate links in the description.

1278
01:40:11,934 --> 01:40:15,994
It helps keep bringing you great content while connecting you with awesome products that I

1279
01:40:15,994 --> 01:40:16,474
believe in.

1280
01:40:16,474 --> 01:40:20,534
Share this episode with your friends, family or anyone curious about Bitcoin.

1281
01:40:20,954 --> 01:40:23,014
And let's keep growing this community together.

1282
01:40:23,014 --> 01:40:26,814
Stay curious, keep stacking, and I'll catch you in the next one.