Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman. In this episode,
I chat with Amanda Goodall, aka The Job Chick, a workforce intelligence analyst who advises funds
and executive teams on the real signals inside America's largest companies. We dig into why
margins are up while headcount isn't, the surge in offshoring and vendorization, and how AI is
quietly reshaping everything from finance-backed office roles to warehouses.
If you want a clear and practical way to navigate the current labor market,
this conversation is for you.
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And now, let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with Amanda Goodall, aka The Job Chick.
What is real?
How do you define real?
You can't jump into cash.
Cash is trash. What do you do? You get out.
Amanda Goodall is a workforce intelligence analyst, an independent consultant who decodes
what's really happening inside America's top companies before the headlines hit.
She tracks structural layoffs, offshoring trends, and internal role reshuffling
across sectors like tech, aviation, oil, and finance. Her signal-driven breakdowns have
accurately projected restructurings at Microsoft, AMD, Chevron, PayPal, Rivian,
ConocoPhillips, Tesla, and more, often months ahead of public reporting.
Amanda advises executive teams, funds, and public sector leaders on workforce risk,
labor arbitrage, and organizational signals that never make it into earnings calls.
She publishes under The Job Check, delivering sharp, high-trust insight for leaders,
navigating the unspoken realities of corporate restructuring,
We're top investors and executives turn for labor market signals.
Amanda Goodall, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast.
How are you?
Thanks so much.
I'm doing great.
It's a beautiful day.
Yeah, it's a beautiful day here too.
So yeah, I'm excited to get into it.
You know, I used to be a corporate accounting consultant
and worked primarily at Fortune 500 companies and PE-backed companies.
You know, some startups here and there and some different sectors,
But I'm familiar with sort of corporate America.
But there's a lot of a lot of questions I have about what's happening now and from looking at it from not from maybe my point of view.
So maybe what kind of workforce trends or patterns do you see in the economy or what do you see at a high level?
Oh, goodness. Yeah. You know, everybody wants to know about what's going on because it's a bit crazy right now.
And, you know, I look at everything from a workforce standpoint, whether it's the stock market, whether it's about jobs, whether it's about, you know, what's going on in the economy, even because, you know, with what with what we see with corporations, their earnings, the results, what's going on.
This is a geopolitical scale of things. And it all comes down to can you get the job and who's hiring who and who's who's firing who and things like that.
So, you know, overall, 30,000 foot view of everything, we are seeing corporations focus on scaling margins and not so much scaling their teams, especially here in the United States.
You know, it's been interesting to really look at like the last like six years.
So just going just before COVID hit and looking at the numbers of employees, especially when you're looking here in the U.S., how corporations had their headcount, how they had it after COVID, which it peaked big time.
And I know a lot of people think that all the layoffs currently that are going on are all due to the overhiring.
That was done a long time ago.
So when you look at that and you start looking at it more 2024, 2025, what we're seeing is that, yes, the headcount's there, but the level of offshoring is massive.
So we're seeing corporations change completely in what their focus is on.
I mean, I get it. It's about making money.
The CEO's job is to the shareholders to make money. Totally understand that.
but the workforce is starting to suffer a little bit and I'm wondering how long it's going to last.
What are the trends in offshoring that you see? What kind of jobs are getting offshored now?
And what may be, you know, the kind of job that gets offshored tomorrow?
Yeah. I mean, right now we have a lot of tech, obviously a lot of admin, customer support. We've
seen call center. I think that really kind of kicked it off over the years. We're starting to
see a lot more healthcare admin go overseas as well. And, you know, people are frustrated. And
it's funny because we do see companies like Klarna, for instance, and, you know, it's interesting,
they just IPO'd. And we're, you know, we're looking at them. And I think they're a really
interesting case study on what they're doing, because they were one of the really first ones,
honestly, to focus on AI and kind of offshore some of the stuff, but also focus on AI. So
that change on what we're seeing between humans where we offshore and everything, it's an
interesting sector. And we're also seeing with TCS, Tata Consulting out of India, we're also
seeing everything that was offshored, they're starting to lose their jobs due to AI as well.
So there's a lot of changing going on and it's fascinating to watch. It's frustrating to watch. I will say that as well. But, you know, we see all these different pockets of offshoring and how they're changing with automation and things like that. So there's a lot coming.
Tata Consulting. Is that the name you said? What are they like? Tell me about them. I saw them all over the place at one of my clients.
Yeah, I mean, they're one of the biggest outsourcers. You know, they they work with companies. They're one of the vendors for companies. So, you know, anybody can hire them and then use their teams to work. So, you know, it's just a level of outsourcing that is going on. They're very heavy in tech.
There just seemed to be a level of ineptitude, though, where they went up against maybe like an Accenture for an ERP implementation. Or they're going to cover a whole department if you lay them off. And it seemed like they won a lot on bidding. And I just wonder how indicative is that throughout?
It seemed like they won on bidding, but even there would be a lot of bloat within the projects.
And I'm not just speaking to Tata, like a lot of these organizations, but it seemed like management internally of these Fortune 500s can't really grasp something where they fire 100 people and then hire, replace them with 75, and you still have 50 too many.
But now you have 75 with no legacy knowledge or understanding.
you know one of my clients they would they would literally fire every consultant you know around
the world via memo at 6 a.m on a thursday morning and it's like 7 500 people and then
whatever breaks then hire those people back and what i mean these organizations are so huge how
do they how do they roll out these programs that sometimes take like three years to
affect the change or you're saying like these decisions were made so long ago
They are, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because, you know, you mentioned Accenture, you know, they're the biggest and, you know, they have what about, oh, it must be about 750, 780,000 people worldwide.
So they're one of the big outsource companies that corporations use.
And they work as a vendor, basically.
And so they do it.
It's kind of beautiful for corporations overall because they can bring in this other mindset,
this other company to go deal with it.
And so the Accentures, the Tatas, any of the management consulting and vendor type companies
are the ones handling all of the hiring.
The interesting thing is that so many people that I talk to, they mention that people like within Tata or anything out of India, for instance, they're like, yeah, we can get 1,000 employees like that.
Whereas in the US, it's obviously you have all these regulatory things and the processes you have to go to.
So that's why so many companies are utilizing this right now because it's cheaper.
It's easier.
There's not health care like that the same way that we have it here in the United States.
So, you know, for corporations, it's kind of a no brainer.
It's just really bad optics, especially where we are today, where people are really struggling to find jobs.
OK, so people are really struggling to find jobs.
So what is it like to go through sort of the job search process right now?
Do you use LinkedIn? What sites do you go to? How do you find the real opportunities?
The job search right now is tough.
I don't need to be the one to break the news to everybody.
You guys know.
But, you know, overall, most people, I would say, are still on LinkedIn, indeed, things
like that, searching for jobs.
You know, the easy apply buttons are right there.
And, you know, what the feedback that I'm hearing is, is that people are applying to
like five, 600 jobs, and they're not hearing back for anything.
And they know they're qualified.
So, you know, and you hear recruiters go, oh, no, I had 500 applications in and four were actually qualified.
And there's this whole discrepancy of what's going on.
You know, you have AI writing job descriptions that are being put on so that you can apply to.
Then you have, you know, applicants that are using AI to write resumes for that.
And then all of a sudden somebody is not qualified.
How does that work?
So it's a bit of a mess.
And I can't imagine actually being in a job search right now.
This is a tough time.
But, you know, overall, Indeed and LinkedIn, I know a lot of people are starting to utilize their network.
And that's a very smart thing to do.
It's about who you know.
You know, it's not even just necessarily reaching out on LinkedIn to go, hey, here's my resume.
Can you pass it along?
It's starting to work the process.
And, you know, my advice overall to anybody that is looking, you know, you have to be the obvious choice.
You know, look at what a company is doing today.
Look at what a company is doing in the next couple of years and figure out what their pain points are.
And compare that to your experience and your background.
You know you can do the job, but you kind of have to tell them exactly what you've done and translate that into what they're focusing on.
And that's the harder part of all of it, you know, just kind of, you know, doing that translation on a resume or even to recruiters, because not all recruiters understand all the roles that they are hiring for.
So you kind of have to really spell it out for them.
You will have a lot of success with that.
But, you know, the job search is increasing.
The time length it is actually taking to find it.
I mean, right now we're at, what, 24 weeks?
And at 27 weeks, you're not even counted in the unemployment numbers, which is just insane.
And, you know, it's, you know, I fear it's only going to keep creeping up a little bit, you know, just little percentage points every couple months.
But it's massive.
And there's so many people that are well over a year of searching.
I just don't get it.
It has to start making sense at some point, right?
Are these jobs real?
A lot of the postings are all real.
Are there ghost postings or synthetic jobs?
Synthetic jobs, definitely.
That's one of my favorite things to talk about.
But, you know, companies admit to using them, like point blank admit to using them.
And the really interesting thing is that, you know, everything that I can track with, like, you know, hiring and stuff with regards to the jobs.
When you start looking at like SEC filings, when earnings come out for different companies, depending on which way it's going, you'll see a bunch of jobs listed just before earnings.
And sometimes it will be just after, you know, so it's do they need to make sure that the shareholders see that there's stuff going on or they need to go, no, we're going to focus on this.
This is so exciting. And then, bam, it's a bunch of listings.
So you can really watch when if you start monitoring certain companies, especially if you're going to apply to some, you know, look in your industry, look at them and you can see around the earnings calls when that all works.
But yeah, there's absolutely ghost postings. And I think, you know, a lot of HR, a lot of recruiters will deny that until they're blue in the face.
But the very fact that companies admit that in surveys with Harvard and things like that, you know, and you can see it.
You can absolutely see it all going on.
And it's just next level frustrating.
It doesn't make sense.
And, you know, I don't believe it's just because they're trying to, you know, get our information.
Some people are worried about they're just trying to scrape data together.
And I don't think that's it.
It's just a it's a optics thing for shareholders overall.
How much do you see like machine learning or AI replacing more like desk jobs, like accounts payable or accounts receivable, things that are sort of very routinized?
How much do you how much progress do you see there?
What development do you see?
Yeah, it's definitely happening.
You know, there's a lot of areas, especially within finance, you know, like you mentioned, with accounts and stuff like that, that are absolutely getting automated.
There's still somebody that has to handle it, but you don't need a whole department of that anymore.
Right.
You know, I think the one issue we're going to see is what we're seeing with like AI and like LLMs and stuff like that.
It's not always completely accurate.
Now, in the finance world, yes, they got their numbers down.
It's good.
But for the smaller businesses that are trying to automate so much, I'm already hearing some feedback even locally here.
And I'm in Las Vegas where, you know, companies have started using it and they went, I took this to my accountant and all the numbers are wrong.
So, you know, it, you know, LLMs learn, you have to train them. So it's going to be interesting to watch how the corporations kind of excel in utilizing these automations and in really kind of winding down the job functions within finance and account, accounting and anything like that.
And the smaller and the medium-sized businesses are still going to have to cling to the employees, which also is going to bring down, you know, if you were working at a corporation or an enterprise level before, but you're now needing a job within something within that realm, your pay is probably going to be lower.
So you going to be looking at a lower salary because small and medium businesses don pay the same as enterprise right So you know there a lot happening with that We just going to see more and more of it What is morale like throughout sort of Not great
Not great.
It's, I'm very humbled.
You know, when there's layoffs, people seem to contact me as their, you know, they call their person, their spouse, their family member, their parents, whatever.
And I usually seem to get a call within 30 minutes to an hour.
And so I'm hearing this raw emotion of what's going on, the actual stories, you know, the outright frustration, especially if they're top performers.
And, you know, and I also hear people that have been searching for months and months and they're just like, what gives?
I am so qualified.
And, you know, back in the day when I was still dealing with, you know, people on their career path and things like that before I really got into like the workforce intelligence side, you know, I'd see it.
And, and I'm just, you know, when people are applying and they're following even my advice
on it all, and they're getting nowhere because the system is so broken, the morale just can't
be there.
Whether you're an employee dealing with a company that might do random layoffs at any
point, or if you're, you know, dealing with a current layoff, or if you are even looking
like the, the emotion with all of this is, is playing a big part.
And I think it's a big part in how people are approaching the job search.
You know, they put in so much work just to apply for one job and they don't hear back.
You know, they're ghosted.
You know, it's not a real job or they're ghosted from the recruiter or they go on multiple interviews even.
And then all of a sudden they're like, oh, we're actually not hiring for this job.
What?
You know, you can't, it wears people down.
You can't keep that going.
And that's, I don't know, there's this part of me in like the back of my head just going,
What's the end game here? What are what are companies doing? Do the CEOs know this is happening? Is this an HR thing? Is this just a is this just a symptom of how we've started to let AI really drive the hiring process, you know, and how they pick people and things like that?
There's so many factors that could be at play here.
And then at the same time, you know, I'm sitting there going,
maybe it's just margins at the end of the day, you know.
And I don't know.
Again, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
And, you know, for anybody that is job searching right now,
you just got to keep going.
And when you do have a job, always be looking for a new one.
We have to change our mentality with regards to how we work now.
We're not just this one person that does this loyal time period at a company anymore.
That's long gone.
And I think even the concept that you might be there for three to five years is kind of
long gone.
I mean, right now it's what, 3.4 years, I think, is the average time at a job.
Not necessarily due to layoffs, but that's just the average.
I think that's going to decrease as well.
So, you know, to me, and something I've told a lot of people, we need to start, you know,
to help deal with this mentality of it all and how to deal with them how hard it is and how
emotionally difficult this is think about this as you know contract jobs almost you know you get one
you're in it as soon as you start working in it and you're kind of good within that first month
start looking for a new one you know the company's not going to be loyal to you
and as bad as it is you don't have to be loyal to the company either you know you find a new job
that's better for you go jump into it as soon as you get into it get another one there are these
things. You don't want to be out of a job for six to 12 months, not in today's market. But if you
are actively looking, you can jump when you're ready. And it makes a lot more sense. Yeah, it
seems like it's a game of thrones for employees. You know, you survive the layoffs, then you survive
the acquisition, then you survive the firing of the boss who hired you and interviewed you and
championed you you know and then uh what are raises and bonuses like out there for employees
right now are they strong is it i mean like no um strong i wouldn't use that word um they're lucky
to have them we are hearing a lot of reports uh from you know some of the the major companies that
have been laying off over the summer microsoft amazon things like that until where some of the
sales people were let go and you know I don't have fully confirmation other than I've heard from
dozens of people that were in sales where their commission was not received because of it they
were laid off before the time period the cutoff and things like that so that sucks you know there's
no other way to say that and you know but as far as like bonuses we're not seeing anything anything
major anymore I know right after COVID gosh you could even go to like work at Burger King and they
are trying to pay you like a $200 bonus just to start. And we did see that a lot with tech and
different things just to get people back to work. Not anymore. That's not happening. Relocation
packages are becoming, you know, few between overall as well, which is also contributing to
the issues because, you know, when you see big layoffs happen in certain areas like the Bay Area
or Seattle, people have to move. Those are very expensive areas. You know, if they're not
immediately finding another job. They may not have that cushion to stay there. But if companies
aren't paying the relocation, I mean, I don't know if you've ever moved. I've moved a ton of times,
and it is not cheap. So we are seeing people struggle with that concept, which is, again,
why we're seeing things falter. Payments are getting behind. Rent's getting behind. Mortgages
are getting behind because people are stuck overall. And so there's big knock-on effects
that I don't think a lot of people think about until it hits you.
And then it's just like, oh my gosh, what do I do?
And, you know, that's some of the biggest things.
But, you know, that's, you know, between the knock-on effects of housing and stuff like that.
But we also have to remember, like, you know, how it affects the spouse
or anybody else that lives in the house that's also working.
You know, are they going to be able to relocate to get a job if, you know, the other person is?
There's so many things.
And I see, you know, especially in, like, the Bay Area,
there's a lot of couples that met at work so they both work for the same tech company and they were
both in the same layoff so it can hit instantly and it's tragic it's tragic to hear the stories
and and i hate hearing them especially when they're just like oh i got laid off oh and my
wife just got laid off and and i hear that a lot and i don't know how people are doing it
what about the financial wellness of of employees who are still employed i mean what's going on like
things like pay loans and that thing and that stuff. You know, there's interesting things with
that. I actually advise a credit company as well, just by chance that happened years ago. So I still
do it. So I get to see consumer credit health. So I'm not just relying on Fed data that's coming out.
I'm seeing actual credit reports of what's going on. And it's it's scary. You know, there's a lot
of concepts with the buy now pay later everybody's just like oh no we can just keep doing that and oh
I just pay it in four monthly payments a lot of people think it's monthly it's actually every two
weeks into the little fine print a lot of people don't realize that and then they get behind on
that and then it goes to collections you know so we have these issues now we also have like
the payday loans yes that's still thriving but we also have programs with um companies like
Chime. Now they offer different programs to companies for free to the companies and they
can give it to their employees. Obviously they make money on the back end. They're not doing it out of
the goodness of their heart, you know, but you know, they offer different things where you can
focus on saving money or getting money earlier. So maybe you get paid on a Friday, but you really
need to pay a bill on Wednesday. Well, you can pull part of that money. And I can't remember what
that program's called exactly, but I actually spoke to one of the execs a few months ago about
that. And he said, that's just becoming a really popular thing, you know, where people are doing
that, you know, so it is that concept of they're tracking, you know, some monitoring and tracking
kind of your spending to try to help you manage your funds better, manage your salary better.
And, you know, for a lot of people that is going to help greatly, you know, just, you know, that
cash flow concept, especially if one person in the household loses a job, it's so bad.
So, you know, some of these programs should be helpful for a lot of people.
I really hope we stop seeing so much debt, so much buy now, pay later usage, because
it is starting to really wreck credit.
And credit is also checked for so many jobs.
It used to just be financial and some professional services.
It's now a lot of jobs.
And, you know, a lot of companies are doing it.
I think it's still under like 20%, but it's like 20%.
That's actually a big amount of companies that are looking at that just to kind of see.
And there's so many programs that are being built in to have this financial wellness.
You know, companies are starting to see, you know, if employees have money and they're feeling okay, they're going to be more productive, right?
I mean, that stands to reason.
So, you know, they are welcoming these programs like Chime and things like that.
So overall, I hope it goes the right way as opposed to people just spending because the money's there or keep taking it earlier and a little bit earlier and a little bit earlier because it still comes out of your paycheck at the end of the day.
So how far behind can you get before you lose almost a whole paycheck because you're just paying off that, the early cut?
I don't know.
I have a love-hate relationship with it right now, but I hope it helps some people.
I think it will.
how much do you think companies are looking at that and saying hey if we have employees who are
struggling a bit let's help them so that they can stay here and and maybe even from the point of
view of now we they they need us and they're not going and they'll accept anything from us
verse let's get these people out of here they don't know what they're doing with their money
yeah i think there's a bit of both of that at play right now and definitely you know they know
So companies know how to keep an employee.
You know, they have perks and benefits for a reason, right?
The very fact that we have, you know, say hello to your pet at home video cams.
You know, they understand what people want.
You know, what's going to make them happy?
What's going to make them not take off so much, you know, PTO time to go do this or whatnot.
So they are offering different things.
And companies are well aware of the financial struggles.
I mean, inflation and things like that.
you know, whether, whether we want to say it's there or not, people are, you know, struggling to,
to manage finances over, I think it's, gosh, what is it now? Is it like 63% of Americans are living
paycheck to paycheck, or they aren't even making it paycheck to paycheck? That's a lot. That's,
that's, that's most of America when you think about it, when you're talking from a salary job
point. And, you know, that is that is a real issue that companies are facing right now. It is talked
about a lot in the HR circles. I don't really focus on that, but they do reach out to me. So I
get to hear some of it as well. And, you know, it's something that I would highly recommend if
you know that might be an issue or if, you know, you are looking for a new job or even if you have
a job, ask your company about those perks because they might just be offering them to new employees.
They might not have rolled it out company wide yet, but, you know, it's stuff to talk about with HR for sure.
What are the perks du jour?
What are the perks that are the trend right now that are resonating or that they're trying to push?
Yeah.
You know, I think they're giving small, tiny, tiny relocation, like, you know, a thousand dollars.
OK.
That's kind of one of the big things I see for some companies.
And then, you know, overall, I think a lot of it is just like that health and wellness concept, you know, not just insurance, but like gym membership and and the ability to go join like a paddle club or something like that.
And, you know, like I said, the pet thing, it's all of that emotional wellness, the health wellness and things like that.
Anything that you can do, anything that's going to cost more money on those aspects.
Child care is something you can easily negotiate as well, especially maybe one family member already has insurance for the whole family.
They're gainfully employed.
You can say, hey, I don't need that, but we do need to cover child care.
You know, some companies will be able to negotiate and some companies won't, but it never hurts to ask.
Child care is expensive, like crazy expensive.
What about the I mean, you mentioned pets is stay at home pet cams.
So you can go to the office and still see your pet.
Yeah, yeah. I've seen those at like different, you know, conferences I've been at. And I'm like, is this a real thing? And there'd be like several booths. And I'm just like, wow, okay. You know, I love pets too. I get it. But you know, some people are very attached. And some offices just don't let you bring them in. So it works.
Or stay home.
People love it.
And yeah, they don't let you stay home with your pets.
So, you know, yeah, if you can have vets, you know, check on them and the pet feels happy and you feel happy, you're more likely to be productive.
So, yeah.
What's the trend now or ways you work from home?
Is that still, is everyone working from home still or where are we with that?
No, you know, there's always going to be companies that are happy to do the remote thing because that's just part of their ethos.
That's just their mission.
You know, no, we're going to make this simple.
We're going to do this.
For the most part, you know, return to office has happened.
And, you know, for a big portion of people, including those in finance and tech and things
like that, we are seeing it as a mandate.
And, you know, whether it's three, four, five days a week, it doesn't matter.
People are still having to change their whole lives.
You know, when they've gotten used to maybe staying at home, maybe, you know, one of them
are taking care of the kids.
and now all of a sudden they're mandated to go back to work.
So now they have to figure out the childcare.
Hence why you're going to ask for childcare, right?
Benefits.
But doing remote work is, honestly, it's done.
It's getting done.
It's always going to exist.
And there's always going to be companies.
And if you are completely focused on only doing remote,
then you do need to just look at the companies that that's their thing.
That's what they do.
Don't try to go work at a big corporation that doesn't offer it.
Don't try to do one that has already done RTO mandates because it's going to happen again.
Even if they have a remote job for you, it's going to happen again.
And a lot of companies do use that.
They don't admit they use this, but we can see it.
We can see it in the numbers.
They do use it as part of a general attrition concept.
Well, I can't make it back to work.
I live too far away.
I can't do this.
My whole life has changed.
I'm sorry, but it's not a layoff number.
It's, oh, yeah, we offered them.
We said, come back to work.
But, you know, so, you know, things are changing.
And you have to be ruthless with your own job and how you decide to work.
And how you work is very different for everybody.
And I think, you know, the pandemic really showed a lot of people, oh, working from home is cool.
It's kind of funny because you look back at it and so many people hated it.
They were like, oh, I can't stand staying with my family all day.
And I can stand staying in a room all day And now they just like I have to go back to work You know so you kind of look at that and just go there was a switch at some point I don know what it was But you know overall things are kind of going back to how they were in office and
things like that.
And it makes sense for companies.
I understand that.
So, you know, employees just have to do what is going to work best for them, regardless
of what it looks like, regardless of what company, just go find those jobs that work
best for you.
Sure. What about sort of commercial real estate, though? Are companies, do they have a smaller footprint? Did commercial real estate get repriced down at all? Did they renegotiate leases, maybe? And what do you see happening there?
I'm not an expert in CRE, but CRE is having a moment.
You know, we are seeing a lot of, you know, offices selling for way lower than should be pricing.
You know, you can take it, you know, JP Morgan, for example, out of Manhattan.
They had people that worked in their New York offices.
They also had people in London offices.
And they basically said, hey, we're moving you guys and you can choose to go live in Dallas or Salt Lake.
and we'll help you with the relocation, but that's where we're moving our offices.
Now, they still have their offices.
I think they still have most of them in Manhattan, and they're not gone from New York, obviously,
but this was just certain divisions.
And, you know, a lot of people were like, my whole life is here, you know,
whether it was in New York or London.
So it was a very hard move.
So, you know, yes, we're at the stage now where it's cheaper for companies
to actually have offices in cheaper locales like Salt Lake or Nashville or Dallas or things like
that. And they can just kind of shut up shop a little bit. Yes, they still, you know, have their
lease, have their whatever on their properties and their towers in New York City, but it's still
cheaper. You turn the lights off, you don't have the insurance, you don't have all of those fees.
It's cheaper to run it somewhere else. And I think we're going to keep seeing that,
especially as CRE struggles for a while.
And regardless of whether interest rates come down or not,
that's not going to change anything that goes on with the CRE levels at all.
And, you know, this also ties into how companies are utilizing more vendors
and things like that because they have all these offices.
They've laid off people or it's just gone through a natural attrition.
So their offices shrink a little bit, but they can utilize them for other things
or they can sublease them.
So there's a lot going on in a lot of areas.
Sure.
What do you see, though, in terms of maybe like the floor plans?
Are companies doing cubicles?
Are they doing like offices for the managers?
Is it everyone in a conference room?
I really don't know the answer to that one.
From what I have heard, and this is this this kind of happened beginning of last year when
RTO really kind of became a, oh my gosh, they're making us go back to the office kind of concept.
But even today, we're still seeing companies go, well, you need to come back to the office,
but we have to like stagger you because we don't have enough seats. You know, there's not enough
desks there. And I actually just saw this the other day. This was a Deloitte. This was Deloitte
US out of India, other Indian offices. And, you know, they were like, you have to come back to
off as two days a week, but, you know, we now have to like schedule when you do it. So you're not
flexible or anything like that. So it still happens. The layout of it, I'm not really sure,
but they didn't sound like they have the desk space anymore. So I don't know that why. I don't
know why they would mandate it without having planned that out. I don't know who was in charge
of that and just messed up. But we're seeing that a lot in a lot of different companies and
every different industry as well. So it's not just like tech adjacent or something like that. It is,
it's everywhere what do you see maybe with like robots or you know here with sort of amazon and
warehouse jobs or things like that yeah that's that's pretty wild to look at because uh it was
2023 going into 2024 they had 750 000 robots managing their warehouse and you've probably
seen the videos of all those little like Roomba looking you know megabots that are going around
doing all the work that a warehouser used to do. Now they have a million. And, you know, basically
from everything that I can see, one of those bots can handle the job for four people. That's a lot
of jobs that just went out. And I get it. Not everybody likes to work in a warehouse. I couldn't
imagine. I'm sure there's some people that love it too. But, you know, there's big changes with
all of that. Now I've been to, I was actually a guest at the Accenture display back at CES earlier
this year. And so I got to see some of the NVIDIA, you know, humanoids that they're working on
with Accenture and things like that. And that was fascinating. Everything that I learned at that
point, they're not ready. It's not a thing yet for, you know, yes, they're starting to fold towels
and move baskets and move boxes and sort parcels and things like that.
So it is coming.
But on a large scale, you're only going to see it at the large companies in the next
five, 10 years.
And they were the person I was speaking to at Accenture was very much like, no, it's
going to take 15 plus years for this to roll out as a more normal thing.
So we still have some time with those kind of things.
You know, it'll become more rapid, I'm sure.
You know, that's just what it is at today.
But every day, you know, everything that we're doing with automation is getting faster and better.
So, you know, we can cut that time down for sure.
But yeah, it's bots are interesting to watch that change.
And, you know, and I don't think people have really gotten the full aspect of that.
You know, seeing Jensen Huang at CES introduce the different bots on the stage and things like that, that was really fascinating because there's so many applications, you know, from defense to domestic.
You know, there's so many things that can be done with these. And it will be a matter of time, you know, that we get an optimist or something in our house that helps us as well. So, you know, we're not there yet. We're not there yet. Unitree is a big one as well. And I think they're going to, I think they're going to be one of the big names that are going to make it more of a normal thing at jobs, even working with humans, not just the, you know, like an Amazon is just the bots on the floor and there's really no
with humans i think the unitary overall is going we're going to see that as a collaboration almost
which will be interesting to to see to get used to i don't think people are ready for the bots yet
i saw you know watching them walk towards people and go out to shake their hand people move back
so as as a society we're not all ready for that but i think that side will come a little bit faster
yeah i just wonder if we're not ready yet and it's going a little slower than everyone thinks but
Does it take longer than everyone thinks or just when it comes, like it almost like sneaks up on us and in a shorter period of time than we think it's already here?
I think it'll be a shorter period of time than most people think.
You know, just looking at it now, just look at just look at the advances that have happened.
It's it's amazing to watch how it's been going.
And I know people think AI just happened a few years ago when, you know, ChatGPT came out and it's been here for a long time.
They've been working on this stuff for a long time, you know.
And it is just a it's going to all of a sudden show up in your office, you know, in one in one form or another, depending on what industry you're in.
And I think it'll be good.
I I'm not overly scared about it.
I'm not overly worried about it.
It'll be interesting to see which companies replace and which companies do that collaboration with the employees, because I do think there will be a stark trend on that.
what do you think of the the recent unemployment numbers that just seem to be like revised i mean
we're talking about like 900 000 jobs yeah um yeah here's the thing nobody cares what the
unemployment rate is if they can't get a call back for a job they are highly qualified for
end of that's it that that's that's the story you know so we've got the we've got the the
unemployment rate is what 4.3 now and you know i don't i don't quite buy that one and then you do
see the revisions that have come out. We had, you know, last March it was 598,000. This year,
now we're at 911,000. Weird number, I will say. My brain just went, wait, what? Economic emergency
call now. You know, people are done being lied to with the BLS numbers. You know, we can't trust
them. This is hard. I know revisions have always happened, but they've never been this chaotic.
Let's put it that way. I mean, this this recent revision of the over 900,000 is the largest correction in history.
You know, at a time when people are struggling to find jobs and the narrative up until this point has kind of still is, it has been, oh, no, we have a we have a strong jobs market.
Really? So there's a lot of people that feel validated seeing this number, but I don't really think that's the right way to necessarily look at it because that's that's great.
Those numbers were last year up until March.
OK, we've already moved past that.
And if you are looking for a job, we want to know what's going on now, what's being done now to change and to help us find our future careers.
And, you know, we're not hearing that from from any any company, any, you know, the administration or just anything at all.
So I think there's a lot of people that are just really lost on that.
The numbers are numbers.
it's irrelevant if you're looking for a job and uh you know yes does it does it show us like
different recessionary you know uh trends and things like that yes of course but we can also
feel what's going on boots on the ground as well and that is what's been happening you know i really
noticed that big change uh you know like i said you know just end of summer 23 going into fall
And then all of last year, it's just been bad.
And we don't need the revisions to tell us we're struggling to find jobs, you know, that we don't need that.
So I don't know if it helps or it's it's harmful.
But either way, whatever comes out next, I'm not sure how many people are going to believe it because we've just been knocked around so much.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Speaking of like knocked around so much and people are not going to believe it.
Like how drastically did COVID change things from your perspective or, you know, over the course of your career in retrospect?
Like how wild were you?
Yeah.
You know, I would say for the most part, it made companies realize we can automate faster and we can cut money faster.
And so we can save and build that CapEx and build those margins and look amazing.
And, you know, I get it.
I get it.
I get what companies need to do.
I've run several companies myself.
So I understand that, you know, you do always try to automate.
You do always try to save money where you can.
But this, I believe it really accelerated things.
It also, for the workforce, it also changed how we view employers and how we view our daily work.
You know, this 9 to 5 grind is killer, you know.
And I get it's been around for forever, but it was created 100 plus years ago.
It doesn't really fit today's narrative either.
So, you know, I would like to see companies being more transparent about it.
I would like to see more of the AI applications that companies keep bragging about instead of them replacing people,
have that work in tandem with them so that we can do our work faster than that nine to five.
And as long as we get it done, that's great. But instead, they seem to just keep piling on.
They're like, oh, well, now that you can do a whole day's work in two hours, we'll give you a
week's worth so you can do it today. You know, this is what's happening and people are getting
burnt out. You know, I'm seeing that especially after like any of the big layoffs that happen.
they're like I've inherited a whole team I've inherited you know five people's jobs and they're
like and they're expecting me to do it and it's it's tough you know you bring you know you mentioned
the whole like morale thing they're struggling with that you know that's it's kind of a concept
of not fair and for some reason companies are just like no but this is our bottom line this is what
we need to do well you just fired everybody that could be doing it for one person it's it's I don't
know it's a bit madness when you look at it sometimes yeah you're in that maddening situation
where you know a whole department gets laid off you get the the parallel promotion of taking on
that whole department you have you get less resources you have to learn everything they did
and then you know you're probably gonna have to hand it off to someone and uh find yourself like
a different role at the company and so it's challenge after challenge with diminishing
returns, it seems like really like Game of Thrones. So what about in terms of student loan payments?
Like, I mean, are they people paying them back yet in terms of employees? And how's that going
to affect sort of? Yeah, it was it was a tough conversation when that happened, you know, when
and when it was like, hey, you got to you got to do this, you got to get on a payment plan because,
you know, deferment is out. And so many people, I don't really know how you would miss that many
emails or letters in the mail, but it's happened. You know, I don't know what the full process was,
but I do believe they had years. This was in court for years. I mean, this was,
I think it was finished in like maybe September, October in 23 and it wasn't,
it got delayed until 24. So, you know, and then it just, it kept getting delayed. So we're,
we're, we're at this stage now where you have so many people that obviously everybody does go to
college for jobs and not everybody can put themselves through without taking out loans.
So we are at the stage where we have a lot of people. I mean, it was millions, millions. I can't
remember the full numbers right now, but, you know, they were going to be put in collection
unless they reached out. And again, being on the credit side and seeing that financial consumer side,
they weren't reaching out. They were reaching out to the company that I advised going,
why did my score drop 180 points so you know they they weren't aware of it there's still people that
are not aware of it and it's now showing up on on your account as late that'll drop your score you
know pretty much if you were if you the higher you were score wise the harder it would have hit you
because you were kind of squeaky clean so now you had a big hit that's not good you know if your
score was a little bit lower, you're probably maybe like 45 to 70 points. We typically saw
anything below like a 620. But, you know, now we're at the collection stage. Well, they're not
just like letting it run to collections. And if you ignore the letter, it's going to go away. You
know, there's wage garnishment that's being talked about. And that's going to hit, you know,
so if you talk about like people that maybe bought a house during you know during COVID where things were cheap and everything like that Well now they have this they have their mortgage bill but now they going to have
a wage garnishment or even up to like a couple hundred dollars extra.
What are they paying?
You know, are they going to let their rent or their mortgage go or their car go?
Or are they going to pay their student loan?
Like what one's going to falter first?
And over the next several months, I think we're going to see some really big hurt with
all of that.
It was a case of reaching out and coming up with a payment plan.
I've heard of some people that were like, I told them I can afford $10 a month because I'm unemployed right now.
And they gave that to me for two years.
They gave you breathing room.
Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't.
And unfortunately, we are still seeing, you know, even those that didn't hit that straight off cutoff day back in April,
we are still seeing people, you know, haven't paid over the last couple months.
So now they're now at 120 days and it's hitting their credit as well.
So it wasn't just this one and done thing that's like just destroyed credit scores for so many, for millions.
It's just going to keep coming because people don't have that extra money right now.
And unfortunately, because the way everything changed with the big, beautiful bill and things like that, you don't have so much leeway with the way you can defer and things like that.
So there's a world of hurt coming for that.
And I feel so bad for anybody that took out loans.
And, you know, I do understand, you know, the ones that are like, oh, no, make them pay that back. I understand the ones that are like, no, but we said we were told it was going to get paid for us. I understand both sides of it. But as it's hitting everybody's credit right now, it's really hard.
And I think what a lot of people don't realize is that even if you don't have the, you know, student loans hitting your credit, even if you don't even have student loans, it will still affect as a whole certain regions, certain, you know, generations even.
Because the way, you know, different companies work with like insurance or things like that, they check your credit.
So you're going to fall into the, oh, you know, they're probably still paying student loans category.
They're not going to look for everything necessarily, but you can still be lumped into the, oh, it's this category of person.
OK, you know, this score is you're going to pay more.
So it's not great.
It will affect a lot of people.
You know, as we see people default on mortgages or struggle with rent, it will affect society.
It will affect everybody, not just those that are struggling with it.
What do you then see with tariffs?
I mean, that's a fairly new thing.
what sort of corporate America or the, you know, the Microsofts and the Amazons and
the Essentials, what are they kind of, how are they responding or what are you seeing?
Yeah. You know, for the most part, I mean, it's going to, it's going to be, it's going to do what
it's going to do when you're, when you're looking at it from a retail standpoint, you know, a lot
of companies are saying they're passing it on to the consumer and okay, we're seeing that already,
you know, in pricing at different stores and things like that, you know, it's not necessarily
really huge, but if you're on a budget, it's massive, you know, and, um, you know, with regards
to corporations and things like that, I don't think it's going to make that big of a difference
overall. It's kind of just one of those liabilities they have to deal with. So, you know, they,
they have it to the side, you know, you kind of have to look at it as just like, oh yeah,
okay, now we're paying that. Okay. So we're making just a tad bit less. So how do we squeeze this
out? Oh, maybe we do layoffs or maybe we outsource more and they cover it and then they're still up.
and I think we're going to see more of that going on.
But, you know, it's going to, because it's a global scale,
because this is not just, you know, yes, the U.S. has taken tariffs,
but this is hitting everywhere.
This is hitting every country, you know, overall with what's going on.
You know, I don't know what ones are currently paying tariffs,
what ones are not.
You can't tell from a day-to-day standpoint anymore.
I'm not even sure if this is at the legal stage right now.
So whatever is happening with it all, you know,
companies are still getting affected. So they have to, you know, companies in Europe still have
to go, wow, this is going on. Is this going to hit us hard? How do we deal with this? Are they
going to do layoffs preemptively to make sure they don't, you know, go under for the next couple
quarters? Maybe, you know, so it's, it's, it's a tragic thing to see happen. I understand why
it's being done, but there's, there's so much uncertainty with it. There's so much,
well, I guess it's not really so much, but like there's, there's a, there's a instability
in the whole global system right now. And, you know, it's affecting jobs greatly and jobs are
the everything jobs are the stock market and jobs are, you know, how we survive as, you know,
as a society. So we really have to look at, you know, what companies are doing to focus on,
focus on the worker first, if that's possible. You know, it feels like it's becoming less and
less a thing. But, you know, that's what concerns me the most is that that's not really being talked
about. Is there a different class of workers? Like right now, I mean, the stock market's at
an all-time high. Maybe that's primarily driven by the, you know, FANG and MAG-7.
Are the employees there like living high on the hard compared to the rest of the workforce?
I know it's a broad stroke, but.
Yeah, it's interesting what I have seen.
Anybody that is, and this isn't every industry, this isn't every person,
but I would say like director upwards, you're doing okay.
It is a case when you do decide to leave or you are laid off or just rifted,
you're not part of the mass layoffs, or even if you are part of the mass layoffs,
When you start looking for the jobs again, the money is not there anymore.
So it's not the same levels of salary.
So we are seeing a change in that, which is why we're seeing this relocation issue, you know, and especially with the housing market as it is.
It's it's chaos. It's really chaos.
And, you know, it's it's hard to find the same job again.
And, you know, those those cushy salaries are no more.
Those came greatly after COVID.
They were there before.
Don't get me wrong.
People were making some good money before.
But there was a lot recently.
And they're part of some of the biggest layoffs right now.
So, you know, I don't see salary increasing anytime soon.
Companies are too focused on automation.
They're too focused on how can we do it for cheaper, whether it's AI, whether it's just, you know, okay, we're going to condense a team.
We're going to reorg. We're going to put these people over here. Oh, you're going to do this job now, you know, get rid of the other rest of the team.
So a whole function disappears. And I do see that sometimes, you know, or, you know, are they just going to keep offshoring because it doesn't matter?
You know, it's still cheaper for them, even if they were paying like the full salary of what they would in the U.S., it's still cheaper because they don't have all of the hiring issues and the insurance and health care and all that kind of stuff that doesn't exist.
the same way in other companies.
That regulatory is just not there.
So I'm not really sure we're going to see
those nice cushy salaries anytime soon, at least.
I hope they come back,
but I'm not holding my breath either.
What have layoffs been like?
Some of these large layoffs, how are they handled?
How do you get the notification?
Yeah, that's been bad.
Like, you know, it was a couple of years ago,
you know, we saw a couple, you know,
shock layoffs where, you know, the CEO came on a Zoom call and nobody expected it. And it was like
the whole company. And he was just like, yeah, you're laid off. This is it. We're done. Bye.
And we were all kind of shocked. Now that's the norm, you know, and it's not the CEO doing it.
It's their managers or the directors, VPs, HR, depending on who's getting laid off. You know,
we're hearing stories of some, you know, people that are showing up, they get this, this email or
something on their calendar to say, Hey, show up at 9.15, 11 a.m, whatever. And it's staggered. So
the stories start coming out. So people start going, oh man, I just got that for two o'clock
this afternoon. So we are seeing these things. So they get on the call and I've heard everything
from three minutes to seven minutes. They're done. Their whole, their computer shut off.
Their whole job is done. And there's no Q and A. There's no anything like that.
And ironically, one of the banks out of Australia, ANZ, I think it was last week. It might've been
the week before it's been a long couple days i think it was last week they accidentally an email
got sent out to some of the people that were getting laid off these people did not know there
was a layoff coming and it was just an automatic trigger or something happened with their system
and they got the email so the company had it was only partial uh amount of people i think it was
only a couple hundred that got the email but the company had to go oh yes okay publicly yes we are
doing layoffs. Yes, this happened. We're so sorry, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, a few days
later they laid off, you know, 3,500 people. So, you know, there's things happening. It's crazy
how it goes on these days. This is why I'm saying, you know, you have to look up for yourself because
this happens just all the time now. And it happens randomly and they're cutting things like sales,
which is kind of just weird and backwards for a lot of industries, right? You know, you think,
oh no, that's like the main thing. That's what they got to focus on. But they are cutting back
on that. It's just because they're pivoting. They're doing different things, you know,
getting in different types of contracts instead, you know, for a lot of different companies.
But yeah, the layoff situation is, it's, you know, it's really dehumanizing overall. And
again, that's also not changing. There's no point. It feels like it's just becoming a little bit
colder and people are just expecting it. This is why people are struggling to work in the office.
You say they're just waiting for that to happen. And, you know, there's like it rando happened to
Microsoft and then it happened again the next month. And then there was a couple extra cuts.
People didn't see this coming. And this Microsoft's not a one off with what happened. It's it's
everybody. So, you know, it's not just the regular annual calls that happen, you know, to to resize
and refigure and restructure. This is major game-changing things. And, you know, the optics
that a lot of people brought up, especially after Microsoft, you know, I even brought it up,
you know, they were going after thousands and thousands of H-1Bs this year. That's how many
they filed for. Yet they're laying off people. Yet the narrative has always been, we can't find
qualified workers. Well, which is it? You know, and it's really frustrating. So those optics are
really bad. And people are starting to get very angry overall, because it's out of frustration,
because it's just like, no, I was doing my job. Well, I was a top performer, and I was laid off.
I mean, gosh, the AI director at Microsoft was laid off. And it's just like, how does that work?
And there's enough talk. Microsoft kind of talked about a little bit of it. But it sounds like some
of the original layoffs were decided by not just performance levels, not like just like, you know,
when you do performance reviews, but actually kind of a little bit more automated, it was brought
down. And then like the managers checked off on it. But if it starts at that, is it understanding
the concepts of what you do? Or is it just seeing job duties and output? And right now it just feels
like it's just about output and ROI. And that's what's getting cut. So yeah, it's, it's cold world.
with all of that. Yeah. And my final couple of questions here, I mean, what are you hearing
about maybe inflation and sort of that aspect of the consumer or the employee or even the employers?
I mean, yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it's there. We can all feel it. We can all see it. We went
through the whole great egg price increase over the summer. Right. Well, you know, we were there,
we lived it, we survived inflation hurts though. And you know, there's, there's all the talk about,
the Fed cutting interest rates here, what, next week, isn't it? But it's not going to change the
job scenario so much. I know a lot of people think, oh, well, that's great. They're going to
cut interest rates and now companies are going to borrow money and then they're going to hire a
bunch of people again. I don't think that's going to happen. Yes, some companies will increase,
but what I would say they are going to increase in is offshoring and putting also money into
AI development, because that is the focus of their CapEx and all the spending that they're
doing with all of this. And, you know, so the more they can put into that, the more they can
still keep their margins and just, you know, expand further faster. And so unfortunately,
even if they could cut the rate down to zero, I don't think that's going to make a difference for
the labor market in the slightest. So, you know, we are in for a tough time, you know,
And if you have a job, keep it.
I can't stress that enough.
What if you were starting over or starting out?
You were 20 years old.
You may be coming out of college or decided to skip college or, you know, and you don't
have a lot of capital or maybe you're 30 years old and you're starting over.
What kind of advice would you give?
Yeah, it's hard.
Grads, I think it, what's the stat?
It's like 58% of grads have not found a job their first year out of college.
That's huge.
and you know and this this is where it kind of comes back to that optics issue um I know I use
that word a lot but it is a lot of optics issues you know because you have all these especially
STEM grads that are very uniquely talented and and you know yes they're entry level because they
just graduated but the jobs that we're seeing are like well you must have three to five years
how does that work how does that work it doesn't work you know but they only want to pay them
entry-level, you know, salaries, this is the scenario we're seeing. And I spoke to somebody
in tech just recently, and, you know, they said entry-level is gone. The new thing for tech is
apprenticeships and internships, really. And so you kind of have to go in there, go in there, do
that grunt work for a while. And yes, you'll probably make a little bit more, but that's kind
of where that one is focused on, you know, and that was kind of more in the cybersecurity world
overall, but it's still going to be broad enough tech, you know, and then you have the concepts,
you know, moving forward with all of that, that we need to focus on, you know, what's happening.
You know, we have the people on visas, the H-1B visas that are coming over here. And that is a
problem. Like I said, I'm all for merit, but we have the same, the students that went to the same
colleges together with those that came over on OPT visas to study that are now going for the H-1Bs
to go work at these companies, why are we having so many of our students not get chosen? Why are
we getting overlooked? Why are American students getting overlooked? You know, there's a national
crisis with all of this overall, because if graduates can't find the jobs that they've
been training for, what do they do?
So if you're young and you're just starting out,
you know,
It's hard. You know, every industry is going to have a little bit of different advice to it, but you have to just like do as much networking as humanly possible.
You know, take that odd job so that you can survive doing all of this.
You know, go go, you know, do the weird things that nobody wants to do.
You know, it might be one of those like internships that nobody really wants.
Do it. Get your foot in the door. Show them that you can help them solve that pain point.
and really, you know, that's what starting out in a career is these days. And it's just weird.
People want transparency. And I think if companies were a lot more transparent overall,
it would be better. You know, companies know what they're doing. They know what their focus
is today. They know what their focus is for the next several years, especially as AI is changing,
as tech is changing and things like that. It would seem if they wanted to focus on American workers,
that they could be like, focus on this. These are the degrees you need. They can work with colleges
and build programs so that they could get these amazing workers. I'm not seeing that. Yes, there's
some programs out there, don't get me wrong, but it's not that you're guaranteed a job after that.
And it's not that everybody should be guaranteed a job, but in today's age, it kind of feels like
you do need that as well How do you survive without that Even the gig economy is struggling right now People are trying to DoorDash and they can even get a DoorDash gig because their area is so oversaturated So there and that is that affecting greatly
that 20 to 30 year old range that really like to focus on doing that. They're like, I can just do
the gig work, do the hustle, blah, blah, blah. And they're struggling to even find, to be able to go
deliver somebody's McDonald's to them, you know, and, and that's a worrying sign. How,
how many more areas, you know, it's mainly the bigger areas right now, the bigger cities. So if
you're out in the sticks, you're probably okay. You're probably not going to be put on a wait list,
but you probably won't have that throughput either to make enough money. So there's, there's a lot of
problems we're facing with that. And, you know, to hear some of the, you know, leadership and
the administration to say, you know, gig work, trade work, whatever, like that. I don't, that's
not endless. That's not an infinite supply. And as people lose more jobs, as there's more
offshoring, as things become harder, we have student loans and the collections and people,
you know, would struggle to pay their housing and their cars and things like that, which we are
seeing as well, you know, and just the general amount of debt, they're going to stop ordering
DoorDash. So then what do those people do? You know, and you know, it's, it's a spiral. It's a
to go around and around and nothing is being addressed And that that to me is what nobody needs nobody talking about And we do need to focus on that as as American workers as the leadership whatever we all need to be talking about how we changing the job scope
I mean, is there like a big endgame in sight that we don't know about and only companies know about?
So they're making so much on earnings right now from the stock market because they're just kind of milking the last little bit before we go on UBI.
Is that the scenario?
Okay, that's great.
Give us transparency on what's going on.
You know, if the job market's not good, give us transparency because then at least we know how to budget, how to manage, how to go, okay, these industries are struggling right now.
And so this is where we need to focus.
How do I think outside the box? People want transparency and we just need corporations or the administration to start being more transparent.
And as hard as it is, as hard of a pill it will be to swallow, we're already feeling it.
We already know what's going on. We just want somebody to say it, which, again, brings it back to that validation that, yeah, there was almost a million jobs that were not there last year.
We know.
Here we are, you know, mid 2025, and we're going to have the same report next year.
That's incredible.
I want to thank you so much for coming on the show This has been incredible That has been so dope Please let people know you know where they can find you and your work and any parting words Yeah no thank you This has been great I always up to talk about this because like I said
this needs to be a conversation. But if you're looking for, you know, workforce intelligence
trends, you know, what companies are about to lay off and what's going on for like the investment
side to know, I usually can predict layoffs about three to six months ahead of time at minimum.
and go to my sub stack, which is insideredge report.com.
Or you can go to thejobchick.com just to reach out to me and say, hey, consult with me,
things like that.
And you can find me on X.
I'm the job chick.
I'm the only girl on there with pink hair talking about this stuff.
So you can't miss me.
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Amanda.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
I was happy to be here.
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